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Messages - Random Consonant

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51
Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes - beaten all three routes.  game good but I don't really have a frame of reference for these kinds of games.  Game obviously couldn't strike the same kind of emotional resonance that Houses did so I'm kinda glad the game stuck to beating people over the head with the sort of qualities more observant people noticed about Edelgard/Dimitri/Claude even if the writing could have dared more elsewhere, especially with the new faces (whyyyyyyyyyy do you keep falling the siscon hole videogame writers.)  Lack of real endings is a problem but at the same time I'm not really sure what they could've done that wouldn't have resulted in things being really uneven considering how some of them end.  Shez is a pretty good main all things considered, supportive without being a sounding board and the strong commoner perspective is something Houses oddly lacked.

Of course Azure Gleam Part II exists because the writers backed themselves into a corner and decided fuck it darkest timeline in probably the dumbest way possible and I am very unhappy about that and Golden Wildfire just feels kind of weak in general (although there are parts about it I like quite a bit) but so it goes.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore - Got up somewhere to the final dungeon.  The existence of this game continues to feel like an elaborate joke even now and I'm here for it.  Too bad the joke kinda loses steam towards the end but eh that's what you get when you bring back a B-movie villain who somehow continues to not die when killed.

52
I mean you say it doesn't make sense to pick and choose since they share the same trigger but FE doesn't even do multi-part counters with wildly different effects like FF5 does in the first so you're asking me to judge in favor of a less comprehensive system which doesn't make sense from my end, so I dunno there, seems like this is an argument where we both lose, so to speak, since we're hung up on completely different aspects of the problem and are just gonna wind up talking past each other at this rate until Tide comes along proves we're being dumb about this.  Mechanical advantages should translate; Windsweep stopping formchanges, post-battle effects (ignore 3H has no positive post-battle effects that apply on the target's end for a moment), or indeed anything that isn't striking with a weapon/spell does not in my view.

(unrelatedly jesus christ code does not show up well on this skin, text that light on that light a background is criminal)

53
@Elf, yeah I'd hard disagree with the stuffing Liquid Flame's formshifting but it absolutely would stop what it does beforehand (...ignoring whether or not Windsweep would actually be able to damage it in the first place (it's wind in Three Hopes!!!) but obviously the question would matter for similar effects regardless), much like how I'd say Windsweep would stop Hamedo in FFT but not certain other reaction abilities like Speed Save or Abandon (well, past whatever respect you'd give Windsweep's higher accuracy), the two sorts of things don't feel remotely similar enough to me here, though as I don't recall whether or not it interrupts Gatling (which would be incredibly badass) I'm certainly not going to be militant about this.

e: I think, put another way, FE4 Nihil not stopping FE4 Pursuit is closest to how I feel about this offhand?  It's a skill but it's not really a *skill* skill if that makes sense.

54
I'm not at all sold on Windsweep being able to stuff Chameleon Man's vanishing act, its ability to bypass counters does nothing to prevent other consequences that arise from being attacked such as Pavise, Miracle or Ancient Dragonskin, and the timing interaction that Tide lists in the topic suggests that such a thing would happen before the game would check if conditions for an actual preventable counter are met, by which logic Windsweep should accomplish exactly nothing of worth, never mind how this interpretation would affect other scenarios such as physical reflection from people like Ness.  Plus from my own recollection of both playing and watching others play WA3 nothing about it feels remotely like a counter.

The magic argument is more compelling since White Magic Avoid +20 means Chameleon Man's ID would be turn lol as long as Byleth could keep it up and they would have access to Bishop but... grah, Aura does less than half average damage (and even one point less in Bishop since it has worse magic than Enlightened One) which is surely along the point where even with WA3's trashy defensive stats, Chameleon Man's better magic defense would start mattering, to say nothing of Nosferatu's incredible 15HKO to average without the horrifically unreliable might boosting from Crest of Flames activations so I'd have some serious reservations on trying to sell it to others considering how nebulous figuring out WA3 boss durability tends to be.

55
GODLIKE

Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuna (FFX) - I mean really you'd need to both disallow aeons AND vote based on Gen1 Mewtwo for this to work out to Yuna losing.
Riou (Suiko2) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Faster, OHKOs.
Fou Lu (BoF4) vs. Ryu (BoF2)
Orlandu (FFT) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)


HEAVY

Reclaimer Dragon (WA4) vs. Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) - Undernommed Reclaimer Dragon huh.  Well RIP Heavy.
Raze (MK2) vs. Vayne (MK) - Tide's probably correct here, helps that MK1 doesn't have light/dark for Vayne to resist.


MIDDLE

Crono (CT) vs. Roy (FE6) - Yeah on top of the issue of Roy being able to heal with the Barking Blade (I'm probably of the mind to let him do so OPB at least) the defense bonuses also make him fairly durable.  If Crono goes for Confuse he runs into the fact that doubles and counters offset and gets outslugged (5HKO with Swallow and he really shouldn't be doubling with Rainbow) and if he tries for Luminaire he uh 4HKOs but only has the MP for those 4 so really all Roy would need to do there is heal once.
Stocke (RH) vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Lich (FF1) vs. Chrom (FE:A) - Hold's turn 1, Chrom can do sweet fuckall about this.
Chameleon Man (WA3) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - Yeah I remember this back when it was RICHARD vs. Kaze, and none of the differences here work out to making a difference as far as I'm willing to hype them.


LIGHT

Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Ryudo (G2) - Isn't a ToS mage.
Kain Highwind (FF4) vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears) - Isn't Maria.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Guile (CC) - Isn't Jogurt.
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Sten (BoF2)

56
Golbez can't block ID but he does have one of the better status evasions in the cast and shouldn't lose anything here by tweaking it upwards, so Naoto's ID shouldn't be turn 1 by any interp, plus he pretty much wins the moment he lands Pressure so the real question is can Naoto stave that off long enough and absent a paralysis analogue to resist via accessories it depends on what Naoto's luck is actually worth in practice and idk there.

57
GODLIKE

Belial (WA4) vs. Ryu (BoF3) - Not allowing 4D Pocket as usual, but Belial does at least come pretty close to 2HKOing Ryu with Agony Effect at least, so hey this was at least kind of interesting.
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Simeon (Octopath) - Well I guess Chaz can hit the starting knife weakness but I doubt he has the damage to capitalize on it nearly as well as he needs to.

HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY) - Unless I've forgotten something regarding P4 accessories.
Edge (FF4) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - Think this is probably right.
Ike (FEs) vs. Lyon (Suiko5)

MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Bartholomew Fatima (XG) - yeah Ashley has the crucial problem of needing to build FP and XG wins in evade comprehensiveness so it's not like I'm about to credit FullClip any here.
Empoleon (PKMN) vs. Squall (FF8)
Bowser (SMRPG) vs. Kent (FE7) - e: whoops forgot about Crusher, yeah that'll do it.
Kazan (Legaia 2) vs. Koromaru (P3) - Looks like Kazan can take two Agidynes to me from what I'm looking at?  Koro's pretty average at damage so that OPB auto-life equip that I don't think I ever found shouldn't matter unless someone wants to sell me on NO MYSTIC ARTS EVER.  And of course if Koro goes for ID he probably just gets outraced because P3 ID is bad.

LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Palmer (FF7) - well time to get to looking at this trainwreck and... ok I get that this is Palmer we're talking about here but Thief does 10HKO damage to average and that's *without* a notable amount of his attacks missing.  There's not enough HP materia in the world you could grind up at that point to make up for that damage disparity unless you take the most dismal view of Palmer's HP ever.
Paula (EB) vs. Geela (TriStrat) - Paula vs. infinite healing (freeze is bad and 4HKOs Geela's roughly average magic durability)
Pikachu (PKMN) vs. Locke (FF6) - While my general inclination has been to treat Pika as a temp that's honestly a lot of effort and I can't be bothered so yeah 2HKO with Wing Edge I guess.

58
Tournaments / Re: RPGVO 2022 Nomination Thread
« on: August 21, 2022, 03:39:31 PM »
Godlike:
Ryu (BoF3), Yuna (FFX), Sephiroth (FF7), Mewtwo (PKMN)

Heavy:
Ike (FEs), Ness (EB), Sofia (DQ4), Rydia (FF4)

Middle:
Byleth (FE3H), Bowser (SMRPG), Greninja (PKMN), Roy (FE6)

Light:
Pikachu (PKMN), Draggy (CC), Palmer (FF7), Primrose (8PT)

59
Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- finals.
« on: May 28, 2022, 02:33:46 AM »
Godlike:
Yuna (FFX) vs Orlandu (FFT) - Really doubt Cid misses the OHKO yeah.

Heavy:
Lassic (PS4) vs Frejyadour (S5) - Yeah, Frejyadour really should not be faring any better than Hugo here.

Middle:
nope

Light:
Thief(male)(FFT) vs Dorothea (FETH) - Steal Heart is indeed only subject to Zodiac compat but that's where the good news for Thief ends, Steal Weapon's hit rate is bad enough even without taking Dorothea's modest evasion into account.

pools, sure, why not:

Edelgard, Genevieve, Esmeralda, Profound Darkness, Lassic, Frejyadour

PD sweeps, obviously.

Esmeralda hates this pool, Lassic is the only one who can't break her so she can probably outlast him but Edie/Gen all tear her a new one. e: oh I guess she can probably kill Prince first, that works.

Gen beats everyone who isn't PD, Edie/Prince don't get turns and Lassic doesn't have the durability to take Contaminate Energy -> Indiscriminate.

Edie wrecks Prince but gets outslugged by Lassic.  Maybe if I allowed more than one use of Raging Storm.

Lassic is beating Prince.

PD: 5-0
Genevieve: 4-1
Lassic: 3-2
Edelgard: 2-3
Esmeralda: 2-3
Freyjadour: 0-5

Abstain on the M/H pool

Therion, Lysithea, Sylvando, Thief, Dorothea

Thief gets swept, Therion sweeps, thief bookend pool, I see.  Sylvando pretty much breaks Renewal never so lol, Lysithea doubles Dorothea and Dorothea isn't so much more durable to offset that.

Therion: 4-0
Lysithea: 3-1
Dorothea: 2-2
Sylvando: 1-3
Thief: 0-4


60
Godlike:
Reicher Wallach (MK2) vs Yuna (FFX) - There's a level of bullshit that Reicher isn't up to handling and aeon bullshit is definitely it.

Heavy:
nope

Middle:
Hendrik (DQ11) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4) - Elim checking agility is probably enough, the agility hit Hendrik would have to take to resist ID should easily push it to turn 2 even if his pathetically low base wouldn't regardless.  e2: oh I guess Hendrik does 2HKO, yeah that and DQ11 speed being useless past first turn to me does swing it back in the other direction, Hahn's first turn shouldn't be so much faster that a lap wouldn't happen.

Light:
Ophilia Clement (Octopath) vs Thief(male)(FFT)
Cecil (FF4) vs Dorothea (FETH) - Yeah this is long but I don't see how it's actually hard, it's not like 3H is actually that stingy on cash so Dorothea should easily be able to come in with enough swords to run Cecil out of healing.

61
Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- hammer time!
« on: May 12, 2022, 04:06:26 PM »
Godlike:

Elc (AtL2) vs Orlandu (FFT) - I think this is right, at any rate.

Heavy:
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Frejyadour (S5) - Pretty okay with hyping the Dawn Rune here.

Middle:
Nope.

Light:

Cecil (FF4) vs Shu (AtL2) - Think so at any rate.
Primrose (Octopath) vs Dorothea (FETH) - Surely.

62
Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field
« on: May 10, 2022, 05:34:53 AM »
Quote
Not sure how it's double crediting weakness

Quote
I'm saying that her HP is a direct function of metrics of breakability

Quote
I don't give OT bosses any credit for any PC turns taken while she categorically is unable to act

Which in this context is a form of doublecrediting weaknesses.  Broken enemies still recover from break if you don't kill them fast enough saying PC actions taken magically "don't count" somehow is no different than pretending some bosses are magically more frail than others because they happen to be slow or can be hit with action-denying status.  The fact that in the case of 8PT it's a product of weaknesses rather than anything else is immaterial. 

Again, I am not advocating that any 8PT boss is a deathtank and certainly not Esmeralda because I know they aren't, I am saying that that there is a difference between acknowledging that lategame 8PT bosses crumple hard with proper setup and pretending that there is some sort of massive durability failure going on here because you played the game in a certain way that others didn't and your arguments fall in the latter category.

Quote
Critically, if you mapped the 0.425 PC HP onto a standard formulation, that in no way is an average of 40,000 as 40000 x 4 PCs x 2.5 Turns x 0.425 PC HP 170,000 HP which is much more HP than she has.

This was an error on my part because I was in a hurry and calculating the wrong thing and never went back to correct it, yes, in truth it's "only" 22,694 or to kill her in 4.25 actions, however I can't help but notice that you used that error to completely ignore the broader point, which is setting up that much damage in the first place is more than 4.25 actions effectively committed to offense between pommegranates, setting up the buffs/debuffs/divine skills, and actually breaking her in the first place and that pretending otherwise is ridiculous no matter what you actually do.

63
Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field
« on: May 09, 2022, 05:17:45 PM »
I'm not going to wade too far into this because it's a dumb hill to die on when she likely loses anyways but on a surface-level reading this seems to be a case of doubecrediting weaknesses combined with blatant overlevelling, neither of which are particularly good form.  The four optional jobs are most definitely not "in your way" as they're on little side trails that one might not even notice if they don't know where they are to begin with, and seeing as how the areas they're in are higher than what the game expects for any of the C4 areas anyways their relative difficulty doesn't strike me as terribly relevent regardless.

I mean yes, maybe there's a window where I could see Esmeralda as sub-PCHP from a "holistic" perspective, but 0.425 pretty much requires a "true" average of over (e: whoops)22000 after accounting for the required setup and seeing as how a single character can't deal more than 39996 without optional jobs scoffing at that figure is pretty justified.

64
Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field
« on: May 07, 2022, 08:28:55 PM »
Godlike:

Esmeralda (Octopath) vs Loki (VP1) - 8PT boss durability is a big headache for me but I can't really see Diary Thief surviving at all if the first Indiscriminate rolls Holy at least once and yeah the chance of that happening is over 50%.
Elc (AtL2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4) - Not considering HP buffering + buffed Divide = lol.  Unless you want to argue PD shouldn't be hit by that but really I can't see the argument.

Heavy:
Felix (FE3H) vs Daos (Lufia 2) - Focused Thunder is a pretty easy OHKO.  Felix isn't even particularly close to one-rounding even with a brave quad.

Middle:
Lysithea (FETH) vs Squall (FF8)- oh Squall just OHKOs?  Well okay then.
Sylvando (DQ11) vs Nergal (FE7) - Sylvanado doesn't really do... damage.

Light:

Flayn (FETH) vs Cecil (FF4) - Uh if Cecil doubles he just kills here per Dhyer's FF4a numbers, Flayn be squish and his damage isn't -that- inept, at best she can try to delay that with Nosferatu but Cecil can just use his own crappy healing in response.
Shu (AtL2) vs Locke (FF6)
Primrose (Octopath) vs Noel (SO2)

65
Godlike:

Melfice (G2) vs Reicher Wallach (MK2) - Obvious

Heavy:

Lassic (PS4) vs Hugo (S3) - Lassic too way too durable.


Middle:

Crono (CT) vs Hendrik (DQ11) - Don't think I see any particular reason why Hendrik can't outlast here.
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Guy (Lufia 2) - Yep.

Light:

Ophilia Clement (Octopath) vs Setzer Gabianni (FF6) - e: Trump Card being 20% instead of 25% isn't good enough, no.
Thief(male)(FFT) vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - I think I saw this match in a weird nightmare, once.

66
Quote
and there isn't a creepy cult of ugly old men sacrificing babies.

Me, the person who took Frederica's route: well, that is technically correct.  of course, the truth is worse  hyzante delenda est

Anyways, Triangle Strategy good apart from the things that are less good, at Ch18, haven't really gotten back to it due to a mixture of deciding if this is the part where I give up on trying to go through all the story maps on Hard and also juggling like three other things poorly.

Super Robot Wars T: help im being attacked by an even bigger military-industrial complex and late-stage capitalism

Dark Deity: help im being attacked by a probably bad switch port of a probably buggy mess of a fire emblem clone

Crystal Project: help im being attacked by open exploration ff5

67
Bravely Default 2 - I can't believe the final boss was just Lucia from Octopath Traveller again.

Low 7 or so?  I wanted to like it better but less QoL and more balance by annoyance outweigh the better pacing and more likeable cast.  Granted the better pacing does make me more inclined to give it a replay later but eh.

Oh well, at least we'll always have Elvis.

68
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: January 05, 2022, 09:31:33 AM »
Bravely Default 2 (Hard Mode)

At the point where I'm pretty sure my feelings on the game's jobs are more or less set for the playthrough.  Probably could use some more adjustment in the event I take the game for a replay (which in fairness does seem to be at least somewhat likely) and get a better feel for how stuff fits together a bit more.  Also scores because I definitely disagree with some of the rationales here.

I'll mention stuff above JL12 but I won't really be factoring them in, there's some stuff you can do with them but they do feel kind of superbossy (why do you do this game) if you're not cheaping out with Phantom/Salve Maker and if you're doing -that- you've basically won the game as-is.

Freelancer: See Elf's comments, replace "if Body Slam is good" with "if Luck actually does impact status accuracy" because I'm mashing X to doubt hard from what I've seen.  I guess there's a case for staying in for the JP passives since JP gains... don't really scale much but it's not a job you want to be in any longer than you have to.  3/10.

Black Mage: The job itself is junk (staves suck for too long for the S there to be that notable, the M. Atk is merely good in return for basically being a statistical wasteland) but the skillset isn't -that- bad, three elements to work with and poison for the early game bosses (and is even kind of relevent in C2, thanks Galahad), plus -aras are pretty okay for randombusting actually?  Costlier than Mow Down sure but w/e, ethers are peanuts in this game and not being able to miss is nice.  Sure you get better skillsets for singletarget magic damage eventually if that's what you're after and the fact that you can't uncap the job until you've unlocked Bravebringer is mildly insulting but I'm pretty much with Elf on this one, it's not good by any stretch of the imagination but it's not even in the running for worst job.  4.5/10.

White Mage: Healing!  You want it because god damn do potions not cut it until you get Salve Maker.  Obviously worse than BD1's WM (nerfed Angelic Ward that you can't pass around like candy, bad M. Def, harsher on MT healing) but still great.  Like the fact that you don't need to uncap or even master the job for Arise too.  8/10.

Vanguard: Heroics is a pretty cool skillset and the stats do lend themselves to having a solid prescence... until enemies start spiking evasion and the job's bad accuracy bites them (and being spec'd for axes doesn't really help much) which kind of wastes the potentially absurd second speciality a bit, but really, you could do a lot worse that skillset.  High weight tolerance is pretty welcome in the world before Wind Talismans become storebought as well.  7/10.

Monk: okay but why.  I guess you can run BKB early but given how wild the durability curve is I'm rather skeptical of that being worth it,  Besides the job doesn't... really... offer anything else unless you really want to help the BM spam fire.  Also BM-level speed and those weapon ranks are more than a bit of a turnoff.  3.5/10.

Bard: Eh... I'd like the job better if the first two boss outings you had with it didn't counter Singing in extremely annoying ways and if it had synergy with any support skillset outside of Artistry.  And honestly it's higher maintenance than BD1 Performer with an overall worse skillset (although in fairness you'd probably want those defense buffs bad if you're LLGing the game which IN FAIRNESS is entirely possible to do by accident) so yeah.  I guess it's better in the Switch version where Singing buffs apparently didn't cap properly but that's not the version I played.  6/10.

Beastmaster: Oh look it's the degenerate broken class for degenerates and you get it in C1 lol.  I didn't even set it as a main after mastering it but jfc the only way the job doesn't break itself is if you make a point to ignore what it offers you.  9.5/10.

Thief: Godspeed Strike/10 is indeed a perfect summary and I do think pretty highly of it... just outside of the speed the class is pretty unpleasant to be in thanks to the frankly awful durability (bottom-tier in both defensive stats, mediocre AND E in shields?!) and mediocre offense so hope you got some orbs handy.  6/10.

Gambler: lolno.  This isn't even a level because More Money like BD1 Merchant was because money isn't even that much of an issue until you hit Mag Mell and want to splurge on Elf Capes or something and the passive doesn't even really give you that much anyways.  1/10.

Berserker: So on the one hand I basically agree with Elf here in that Savagery is kind of a junk skillset and the passives are the real draw here.  Just uh... terrible speed, terrible aim, more durable than Thief by virtue of HP but same terrible defenses... idk I found it to be more unpleasant to be in than RM and Thief and my inclination was to say fuck it and live with chugging Ethers.  Still deserves better than Monk of course (spoilers it's also going to be rated higher than the other two speed failures).  Probably Black Mage as well but I struggle to justify higher.  5/10.

Red Mage: So this job is about Thief-level unpleasant to be in (slower but more durable and with something resembling an actual skillset) and Revenge is pretty cool, plus hey both Chainspell and Disaster are some solid mastery perks.  Just, y'know.  GETTING THERE.  Also Nuisance has some fantastically junk odds on its own so it's not like it even has much of a niche until you do.  Also, you know.  Having to stay in RM for Chainspell until Bravebearer comes along and gives you SJS2.  I want to rate it above Berserker but I can't actually justify that beyond "I cared enough to be bothered to get Revenge for everyone, which is more than I cared about Berserker" but honestly that's probably difference enough.  5.5/10.

Ranger: So bows are pretty cool before you get actual dual-wielding and of course this is far more pleasant to be in when you get it than Berserker OR RM and you only need to care until JL6 for Counter-Savvy, isn't that wonderful?  Of course you drop it like a hot potato once you get dual-wielding setups worth a damn but honestly those facts alone put it above Godspeed Strike/10 in my opinion.  6.5/10.

Shieldmaster: Something of a slow burner since the job doesn't really come together until mastery but yeah I'm with Elf here, don't sleep on having a tanky healer/support to pull out of your back pocket when the going gets tough, there's nothing really dominating about it but generating BP via proactive durability is still worth a lot and it's not like the job is even that slow to begin with.  If Defender of the People didn't have an activation limit I might even be half-inclined to rate it at WM but it's still pretty good as is.  7/10.

Pictomancer: Well it's a speedy mage carrier but the weapon ranks and the bad weight tolerance kind of speaks against it, as does the atrocious durability.  It does at least have better debuffs than Vanguard as noted but that's still not exactly wonderful.  You want to be in it anyways because SJBPS is cool but otherwise it exists.  6/10.

Dragoon: The skillset is only okay (Sonic Thrust is a better Mow Down that still doesn't need SJBPS, Angon is Mercy Smash that can kill things and pierce default, Full Force is cool for randosweeping at least) but oh boy what a carrier!  Above average P.Atk and Aim!  S in spears at a point where spears start getting really good (and A in swords if you're not into that for some reason)!  Thief-level speed!  Free dual-wielding upon mastery haha are you -kidding me- sure you marry yourself to the fact that Wind Talismans are basically mandatory but you were doing that anyways so who cares, if anything I'm slightly higher on this one.  7.5/10.

Swordmaster: And this one I'm somewhat less impressed by, although maybe if twohanding buffed Aim like dual wielding did I'd be higher on it.  The counter gimmick has the same issue as Defender of the People does in that MT spoils it and apart from the higher P. Atk I like it less as a carrier than Dragoon since it needs mastery to really come together (and even then it's competing with Dragoon's lol I actually have 6 SP).  There is something to be said for Solid Stance/Indiscriminate Rage/Multitask for randosweeping but eh that's a lot of effort even if BD2's randoms are overall more relevent than 1's.  6.5/10.

Spiritmaster: Clearly worse than BD1 Spiritmaster but still pretty cool, even if the weight tolerance is utterly dismal and Purebringer makes it kind of annoying as a carrier once you master the job.  And then SJS1 helps break the game.  8/10.

Oracle: So on the one hand In One's Element is actually a kind of cool specialty and you can get up to some shenanigans with Elemental Supplement.  That's... about all the nice things I have to say about the job though.  Appallingly bad to be in until mastery (sub-Berserker!  this should not be said lightly!) and I do not at all think highly of a skillset that revolves around low-duration single target buffing when the buffs aren't even that strong to begin with, and unless you're planning on shenanigans there's just so little reason to care.  3/10.

Salve Maker: On its own it's basically a better WM that has more overhead, which is fair.  If you cared to use one as a mage carrier (you probably don't, but if) it's not shameful at it once daggers start getting legit.  Then you master Phantom and suddenly LOOK AT ALL THIS STATUS IMMUNITY THE GAME DOESN'T HAVE holy shit, like it's obviously not effortless but jeez they didn't think this one all the way through and then SJS1 erases the skillset's overhead as long as you have the 40 MP to pop Results Guaranteed what in the actual goddamned fuck were they thinking.  8.5/10.

Arcanist: It's a job designed around randomsweeping with terrible speed and punishes you for using it to sweep randoms unless you embrace the Mandatory Double Wind Talisman lifestyle, at which point you just cry when wind gets spoiled instead.  Maybe if Magic Amp was available before uncapping the job I'd put it above Freelancer but as is this job can fuck the hell off.  2/10.

Bastion: It's like you fused Vanguard and Shieldmaster together and ended up with something less than either of them.  It's far from shameful but there's not much reason to actually care unless you love the prevention skills.  4/10.

Phantom: Hell yes I would like to have unpenalized dual wielding in this game please accept my blood sacrifice Mandatory Double Wind Talisman God.  Worse carrier than Dragoon until you master the class but holy shit who thought up Results Guaranteed, it's not at the same level of Beastmaster because C1 vs. C4 but god this is disgusting enough for a 9/10 anyways.

Hellblade: Mage carrier because you have more attractive physical ones.  Deal with the Devil is pretty clearly a losing trade even if it isn't catastrophic and the only reason to care about staying in the class is Surpassing Power but in all honesty if you're not doing portal asterisk fights you're probably okay with living with the normal damage cap.  More attractive to use than Bastion I guess but you're still probably just messing up a good thing by the time you get it so eh.  5.5/10.

Bravebearer: Hell if I know how to rate it, that's a lot of power the game's handing to you but it's Athos clause stuff as Snowfire said.

69
Bravely Default 2 - Up to C5 now, feeling less salty about things now overall so I can mostly enjoy it as the fascinating and underthought mess that it is.

Seriously though what even are some of these job specialties.

70
Bravely Default 2 - Started this, got up to beating the Beastmaster boss.

So far I can't say I'm very impressed by the changes from BD1!  Weight is just a terrible level-as-godstat system that exists to arbitrarily screw over jobs (some of which aren't even good in the first place) and makes the durability curve even -more- wacky in the process, buffing/debuffing going to the Grandia 1-2 school of stack or GTFO while still being very temporary is bad enough and to make matters worse stacking doesn't even refresh existing durations so why even bother, having stuff counter random things arbitrarily and at random isn't an era of design that needed to be revisited (and of course just makes buffing/debuffing feel even worse), and honestly mixing CTB and BP is just a mess.  And of course they seem to have actually fixed precisely nothing in the process.  Sigh.  I'm not angry, just disappointed.

e: *plays around with Beastmaster some, sics a captured minotaur onto another minotaur* well okay that's pretty decent i guess

71
Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- because why not?
« on: October 19, 2021, 12:48:34 AM »
Godlike:

Edelgard von Hresvelg (FE:TH) vs Melfice (G2) - Maybe if I allowed more than use of Raging Storm per battle or remembered Melfice's charge times on his MT stuff well enough to say for sure if Edie could midcharge him. e: although maybe the stagger works?  god, am I actually vaguely respecting stagger enough to temporarily abstain here?  Yeah probably.
The Dark One (AtLs) vs Reicher Wallach (MK2) - Hell if I know. e: sure, hard to argue against Reicher offense in general
Yuna (FFX) vs Oz (Wizard of Oz) - Oz is good but I'm pretty sure he's not stand up to the conga good.

Heavy:

Erik (DQ11) vs Red (SaGa) - 2HKOs, should survive Divide -> Fatal Slash
Claude von Riegan (FE:TH) vs Lassic (PS4) - Maybe if Lassie didn't have MT to get around the possibility of Claude abusing Alert Stance+

Middle:

Therion (Octopath) vs Crono (CT) - Probably. e: you saw nothing
Hendrik (DQ11) vs Mario (SMRPG) - Yeah DQ11 speed doesn't matter to me past the first turn and Mario sucks against the defensive game.  Doesn't help that I'm inclined to take the cast at Act 2 which if anything probably makes Hendrik look a better on relative stats/damage (though less MP to run the game obviously.)
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Lion (Wizard of Oz) - Pretty sure Savol is turn 1 against Lion magic stat, sigh.  e: or Eliminate because that's just turn 1 against average.

Light:

Ophilia Clement (Octopath) vs Lucca Ashtear (CT) - So the elemental reflection owns Flare and Lucca can't OHKO with a max damage Wondershot crit (WHICH IN COMPLETE FAIRNESS will probably actually happen because Ophilia takes like 12 hits to kill with a physical setup), so that's great.  And yeah I can't say I have respect for 8PT speed doing anything ever.
Setzer Gabianni (FF6) vs Gen (Child of Light) - Sure.
Hanneman (FE:TH) vs Thief(male)(FFT) - Thief doubles and two-rounds, so Hanneman gets three Ragnaroks off... which, since two of them are counters, does 120 to a 127 kill point, so that's not happening since Thief HP is weirdly non-fail.

72
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: October 05, 2021, 06:29:53 PM »
Movement +1 for Aimee is at Feuillant 2 which I'm pretty sure is completely unmissable, so you missing that is extremely strange indeed.

The main issue I have with Philipp's poke and run strat is, while what you say about enemy formations is correct and I did fail to mention that fact, is that I can't think of very many situations where it's meaningfully better than either setting up in a better flanking position or taking the effort to fire off Julie's ability and charge in anyways (granted the latter isn't exactly an option if you missed recruiting her and I can see having a better opinion of him being able to do that in that case, plus she does come four chapters later at earliest).  I think C22 (the second snow map) is the only one where I might have cared, but that map gives you all the time in the world to go treasure hunting so, eh.

73
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: October 04, 2021, 09:17:37 PM »
Banner of the Maid: ok but what if napoleon's sister fought the duke of wellington's sister(?) nearly two decades before waterloo

The nice thing about the game is that class balance is, while pretty far from perfect, a fair bit tighter than it typically is in FE and FE-adjacent games.  Like, there's one or two classes that I'd straight up call bad but even then they're probably still better than shit like armor knights or archers (one class certainly tries but at least it actually has mobility.)  Cast balance, on the other hand does leave a bit to be desired, especially considering how small it is.  But anyways.

Pauline: Fairly good lord-type character although not all that amazing compared to some.  The stats are only generally nice (until C25 where they become generally good, especially with the more offensive promotion option) and Grenadier leaves a bit to be desired as a class line (FFM that's only alleviated through situational move boosts that you have to pay to grab, if there's a player-accessable range 2 musket other than the one she starts with I missed it completely, gets countered by light infantry which the game uses quite heavily, like I don't think they're actually the worst class but they're definitely bottom half.)  On the other hand, she's generally durable (and being able to restore 20% of her HP on defeating enemies is nice, potentially 70% if it happens with a Heroic Attack), good at producing morale, her personal ability lets her give everyone +3 attack for a turn for the cost of 50 morale (and doesn't even fully use up her turn lol) which is pretty great, the buff to adjacent infantry is occasionally useful (especially the +2 speed version you get from the unlockable promotion), and her stats are actually good enough to one-round line infantry with some finessing, which helps considerably.  7/10.

Lannes: On the other hand you have Lannes who certainly tries to make a case for Grenadier being the worst class since he fails at the things Pauline succeeds at and all he's got to show for it is better HP (although at least in his case it's gamebest) and Armor, and that doesn't make up for how much worse he is against infantry.  At least his personal is kind of okay I suppose?  And if you want to actually use another Fusilier with Pauline (you probably do at times) he's your only option until C20.  3/10.

Murat: So Murat is probably the most hyperspecialized PC in the game.  Hussars use the weakest weapon type (although sabres do at least buff evasion, which helps his dodgetanking game) and Murat himself has one of the lowest base Attack stats but on the other hand his speed is nuts (ties for cast-best post promotion) and his class counters light infantry (which as mentioned are quite common) incredibly hard so he'll succeed at his main combat role unless you let him get underleveled (mostly a problem early as his speed isn't actually wonderful to start off with).  And then his personal skill is basically a free +20 hit as well as +10 evade provided the enemy doesn't have range 3+ oh it also buffs other cavalry too, it's pretty great.  Mobility is great as well of course.  Granted his offense against things that aren't light infantry is quite pathetic (like, struggles to take out enemy artillery pathetic) and his durability when his evade fails him is pretty meh, but I have to think the pros outweigh the cons in his case.  6/10.

D'Eon: Crutch character without being an actual crutch, and one of the few such characters who actually deserves to be called an EXP thief.  Well okay I guess the crutch part is being in one of the two candidates for best class in the game (spoilers the other one is also light infantry) but even then D'Eon manages to fuck it up completely.  Literally Fire Emblem memes circa 2004, but being light infantry is probably good enough to dodge a zero.  1/10.

Paulette: Artillery!  Awful movement but range 4 and the ability to double move (which she gets for free) make up for a lot of lost goodwill.  Speed's castworst though so she'll never be that amazing at offense (and tends to weep against line infantry that specifically spoil artillery), but on the other hand she is great at producing morale and artillery gets probably the second best Heroic Attack booster in an AoE stun.  Granted, the stun's only 50% so it's no Ashes and Dust but still handy (alternatively she could just oneshot light infantry/cavalry with them, that's fine too I guess).  Helps that her base Attack is really high.  6/10.

Aimee: First of the game's two healers, and since you really don't want to be relying on consumeables or campfires if you can help it you're definitely going to be using at least one.  Granted, "healer" here also extends to things like turn refreshing and morale generation so.  Still, suffers from inventory space problems and is stuck at FFM (although you can at least get Movement +1 for her, which makes the difference between her and the other healer somewhat less stark) but can't have everything I guess.  6.5/10.

Oscar: Elf summed heavy cavalry in this game up pretty well, they're basically armor knights on a horse.  Of course, this being game being set during the French Revolution, the defensive stat heavy cavalry are good at is the lesser used of the two and the class they directly counter isn't exactly common or especially threatening (unless you happen to be a Carabiner I guess).  Granted, Oscar does pretty well for herself anyways despite the class tree fighting with Grenadier for third-worst.  Helps that she's actually good at tanking things that check Armor and that her single hit offense is just nuts, tied for castbest at base if you take the unlockable promotion and that branch gets a skill that lets her randomly perform speed-independent doubles at Lv20 which helps with her worst problem in that regard.  6/10.

Desaix: Well uh.  I'd say that they're more useful than Lannes if they weren't absent for a decent chunk of the midgame.  And using two heavy cavs is a very map dependent kind of thing to begin with so yeah.  X but with less everything doesn't tend to work unless you're in a great class to start with and even then there are limits.  At least they get Replace for free?  2.5/10.

Cosette: So, Carabiniers are basically what FE archers want to be.  Carabiniers do this thing where instead of dodge tanking they add +1 range to their attacks (although at a Fates-style attack speed penalty before they promote) and have high accuracy, and while they're not the fastest their speed is typically good enough for the things you'd actually use them against (i.e. not light cavalry) and instead of meh Attack like the other light infantry class they get pretty good Attack, and in Cosette's case she tacks on an additional 3 damage to targets on open terrain (so, most things) plus her Speed is best among people in her class so she can actually deal with some other light infantry types pretty well.  But wait, it gets better, because the class also gets a skill that basically gives them Galeforce on Heroic Attacks (2BP, but you can buy a better version if you wanted I guess) and one that basically negates the speed penalties that the higher tier rifles come with in return for their increased range lol.  On the downside the class is stuck at FFM (but at least they can potentially ignore terrain) and she's quite squishy against cavalry/artillery but probably gamebest PC?  I guess the morale generation also leaves a bit to be desired but in Cosette's case the sheer level of offense goes a fair way towards helping me forgive that.  Having both a great offensive spread and range takes you a long way.  8/10.

Adelaide: Hello castbest dodgetank.  It's not completely foolproof since some enemy types are specifically set up to spoil that kind of strategy but having so many ways to not get hit while having acceptable offense (the base Attack isn't great though the personal and class abilities help with that, but the speed's tied with Murat) while also having range 2 post promotion is good enough for at least second best PC, I think.  Helps that the mobility is also good, 6 move/terrain ignoring/canto is about the best you can ask for when having a ranged option (also the class can also buy Heroic Reload+ too lol.)  7.5/10.

Charlotte: Murat with a bit less speed and a worse personal (though not quite as useless as it first appears) but generally better offense.  Significantly so on occasion, even, like she can actually one-round enemy artillery sometimes (and for all that it's not relevent in this assessment at all, I certainly wouldn't want to try to win the optional C26 duel with Murat if the game forced it on me.)  About as balanced as a female PC in this game gets when compared to their male counterpart and while I think Charlotte probably loses the comparison I don't think it's enough for a different score.  6/10.

Eugenie: Mounted healer.  Only has +1 move on Aimee for the most part (technically 2 but let's be realistic, you're paying for Movement +1 on Aimee if you're using her at all) and an occasionally useful command skill (pity it's only for a single attack), but that's still some power creep.  7.5/10.

Ernestine: Adelaide with a bad personal skill instead of a great one, comes in slightly underleveled, and has a slightly worse stat spread.  Still doesn't fail enough at her class nearly to be bad though.  6.5/10.

Dutheil: Sappers are weird and mostly bad, they're line infantry but more of a support class than anything, except making use of their support is annoying and hampered by their having gameworst mobility (and they need an extra four levels to promote, just to rub salt in the wound) and their other gimmick of being able to partially ignore Defense doesn't really make up for how utterly garbage their offense is.  Like, being able to get more uses of Triumph Music (the game's dance equivalent) is great and all?  But you probably have enough as is even without using one.  And of course he also wastes his good defensive stats by having heavy cavalry-level speed.  Still, what support there is is probably good enough to save his class from being the -actual- worst one, but still.  And I think on reflection I'd rather have him around than Lannes if I had to choose so.  3.5/10.

Lafite: Paulette who trades some Attack for a better splash damage skill and has to pay for being able to double move.  Not a winning trade in the slightest but hey, artillery is artillery.  5/10.

Laure: Carabinier, this time with castbest Attack and a personal that buffs range for a turn.  Gives up speed for it (still above average, good lord Carabiniers are dumb) and joining at Lv14 on C18 isn't the best but hey, Carabinier is Carabinier.  6.5/10.

Therese: Same problems as Laure, but with the worst statspread (still above average at Attack/Speed) of her class and her personal sucks.  Still, she's a Carabinier and doesn't fuck it up completely so she's not the -actual- worst female PC (spoilers it's the one Elf missed) but still some Robespierre-approved anti-royal propaganda here.  5.5/10.

Philipp: So.  Philipp's light cavalry class uses rifles instead of sabres, great, everyone loves rifles right?!  Unfortunately Horse Chasseurs just suck completely, having the same base Attack problems as Hussars while having significantly less speed, and instead of a passive that helps them not fail at their most fundamental combat niche, especially since they use rifles and have to run into Defense, which light infantry are good at they get added range on counters and the ability to not be doubled on enemy phase.  In fact I'm not sure what it is they're actually supposed to do other than take away the enemy's ability to perform Heroic Attacks and maybe counter enemy artillery after promotion, and those aren't really things that are good enough to justify a deployment slot.  Oh they also promote at Lv19 so they have to wait later to use the good shit.  Yeah, no amount of mobility can save it from being the worst class in the game IMO, even scrubs like Lannes and Dutheil can do something remotely worthile with their classes.  Fuck, even D'Eon can at least pretend to dodgetank, for all that I think he's still probably worse.  1.5/10.

Nicolette: Joins at Lv13 on C20 and promotes at Lv19 and starts off in a line infantry class OH BOY.  +4 Attack/Speed against higher level targets is the sort of passive the likes of Donnel and Mozu seethe with envy at however and that and being able to learn Replace (in fact I think she's the only non-cavalry who can?) makes up for some of that lost goodwill.  Plus, like Pauline, her stats are just generally solid across the board  Also, somewhat excitingly, she has the option to promote to Carabinier if you don't want more Grenadiers.  I think I do agree with her being better than Therese but not enough for a higher score, so.  5.5/10.

Julie: The other Sapper and, as you can probably guess from that, the actual worst female PC.  I guess her personal ability makes her better than Dutheil despite joining unpromoted at C23 but good luck actually using it outside of C28 seeing as how it requires 100 morale to use (this is a little unfair, it's a great effect, but it also either requires musician time you could use for other things or throwing someone who gets doubled by everything and has mediocre offense into combat.)  On the other hand you could have concieveably promoted Dutheil by that point and I struggle to think of a compelling reason to use two Sappers so it's not like I can consider her to be all that meaninfully better.  4/10.

Leclerc: Joins unpromoted at C24 are you kidding me also he's another Horse Chasseur because of course he is.  1/10.

Rose: Only around for the last two maps, but hey, artillery with a free +1 movement and she hands out +2 speed to everyone on open terrain just for existing and she actually joins properly leveled.  6/10.

Napoleon: Last map only, but the personal ability rules and the stats are Pauline-level so I don't really have any complains other than him being in the worse Grenadier class.  5.5/10.

74
Banner of the Maid - oh hey I also noticed this a couple years ago and didn't pay much attention to it (for different but probably also unfair reasons, the plot is a bit more grounded than I was expecting despite the premise, for instance) but turns out it's actually pretty decent for what it is.  I'm not 100% of it squeaking into my top five FE experiences all things considered but it makes a decent enough argument to be there.


75
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: April 28, 2021, 01:41:44 AM »
Trails of Cold Steel 4: We Really Didn't Think This Chrono Burst Thing All The Way Through Did We

The usual tl;dr is that I kind of agree with Tide but at the same time I kind of don't.  The slightly longer version is that I'll try to judge between infinite turn cheese loops and a theorhetical world where Chrono Burst doesn't exist and things actually get turns.

Juna: Well on the one hand Junie still has some pretty junk offensive stats (which really don't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.)  On the same hand, breaking isn't quite as effective as noted and Sledgehammer ate a net nerf besides.  On the other hand 30 CP self buff that provides 1 BP for using it with no downsides whatsoever hello yes there's absolutely no way this could be exploited oh wait hi Chrono Burst.  Being able get literally infinite turns thanks to the combination of those two things in addition to Musse's Brave Order is some ridiculously stupid bullshit and it's a testament to what a broken mess of a game and I'm not even sure this is even the dumbest thing you can do.  Oh even better, having two Space locks means she gives up basically nothing to run EP Cut and Hit quartz which in turn mitigates whatever harm having mediocre stats could do lol.  Without cheesing it out like this... eh she still has GT Accelerate (though hers is more expensive than Machias's) and Brave Orders are still the new broken so no-questions-asked BP generation is nice to have anyways so she comes out looking pretty good regardless.  7.5/10.

Kurt: Kurt on the other hand... yeah no, having to compete with the Old Class 7 pretty much all the time does him no favors and his Brave Order having its cost upped to 4 BP pretty much kills it regardless of what you're doing.  Range 1 is again suboptimal for evade strats and Evade quartz are even weaker than they were in CS3 to boot, and while he does have a cheap delay craft, those got nerfed AGAIN and he has to give up free slots for Impede quartz anyways so loud shrug.  There's just no reason to use apart from being forced to.  3/10.

Altina: Okay, the bad out of the way first; Ebon Crest got nerfed to 5 BP and counterplay to it seems to exist now.  Also bad, her craft list is still all over the place, she still has a terrible HP/speed combo, and she's a primary caster who doesn't get ATS from her weapon.  Now for the good, Time/Space/Mirage are active for pretty much the entire game so having Mirage/Space locks is considerably less of an issue, plus having a potential mountain of EP is a good way to Make Stuff Happen.  Her healing/CP recovery craft self-targets now so there's that.  She's one of four people to get Auto-Charge 2 which makes infinite Chrono Burst (and other things besides) even easier to pull off.  Finally, casters are just pretty much better for longer than they were in CS3, so even the one with the lowest (non-cheese) cieling comes off looking pretty fine here.  6/10.

Randy: He's an acceptable standin for a physical bruiser in the first part of Chapter 1 at least, having a 4S+ S-Craft and a solid filler Brave Order will do that.  2 Fire/1 Time doesn't offend as far as orbment locks are concerned either.  You just... can't really do MORE with him since his main MQ is fixed and Regulus isn't really great outside of randobusting.  Still, he's at least good at something.  5/10.

Ash: Once again I can't bring myself to be as impressed by Ash as Tide, but he's hardly bad.  His strength isn't -that- amazing overall and while he does get a 4S+ S-Craft... it's single target only and while that's not quite as embarrasing as it sounds in this particular Trails game, we've long since passed the days of TitS and so I can't think that highly of it, especially since Gaius and Crow also get S-Crafts that strong.  Meanwhile the base version of Reaper Whirlwind (y'know, the thing that made up a lot of his randobusting worth) had its status odds slashed to 30% and it costs 80 CP now, which is a pretty big oof early.  Plus I can't really say I'm a fan of Crit+% Brave Orders when they have such a paltry buff effect attached to them.  On the plus side it's at least easier for him to pull off his game now for a variety of reasons.  5.5/10.

Fie: Once again, Fie doesn't do much except for the thing she's really good at doing.  I guess Concealing Wind is a cute way to ensure BP gain but it has similar problems as Unbound Rage while being less Chrono Burst friendly.  Plus the thing she's really good at doing involves letting enemies get turns and doesn't help against enemy S-Crafts anyways.  At least the early game is good though.  5/10.

Elliot: Someone who looks a lot better if you're not cheesing the fuck out of the game for pretty much the same reasons why Elliot was always solid.  About the only complaints I have about him are that he can't unbalance with anything but his basic physical and that like most primary casters he's a bit on the slow side.  6/10.

Sara: Always a solid choice, but never the best, plus having her Brave Order nerfed to 5 BP plus the nerfing of break strats with regards to human bosses pretty much means her own brand of cheap isn't coming into play much in a field as crowded as this, although it still does exist.  Is that enough to justify a 7?  Yeah probably.  7/10.

Musse: Okay.  It's pretty much impossible to talk about Musse in CS4 without talking about her Brave Order.  In CS3, there wasn't a whole lot of point to it since even if you cared enough about casters to build a party that way, Titania MQ meant you basically had infinite EP to work with anyways and Divine Song had the same BP cost as Arts Celebration so who cared if the former didn't come with an ATS buff or restore EP?  In CS4?  Not only is Rean not around until Chapter 2 while Musse joins about two thirds of the way through Chapter 1, Divine Song had its BP cost upped to 3 whereas Arts Celebration basically wasn't touched at all, plus fast cast spamming with Divine Song isn't quite as strong against bosses this time around.  And sure, you can sub Titania for anyone you want now, but that doesn't help if you use something that does no damage, like Chrono Burst.  And while Chrono Burst went from 240 EP to 280, that's pretty much irrelevent in the face of CS4 EP pools.  In other words, somebody didn't think their cunning plan all the way through and Arts Celebration is the best tool at taking advantage of that.  If that's not enough, in terms of raw power she's probably the strongest offensive caster despite losing to Emma on ATS by virtue of actually having an offensive S-Craft and just has a bunch of neat stuff in theory that doesn't come up normally because the game ain't hard and she also has this One Weird Trick that overshadows everything.  8.5/10 is probably right since I'm not sure that even with all that she has the sheer level of statistical/skillset dominance for a 9 but damned if she doesn't try.

Alisa: Pretty much unchanged from CS3, about the only strike against her is not being able to infinite with Chrono Burst quite as well as some but whatever.  Sightly better than Sara IMO but not enough so that she gets higher than a 7/10.

Jusis: Jusis pretty much only got buffs, but they're slight incidental buffs like his S-Craft being 3S+/4S now and Treasure Sword now impedes.  More crucially, however, his Brave Order didn't get touched at all, which means it's now solid filler.  Having 2 Space/1 Wind is probably better for the infinite Chrono Burst loop than Tide credits him for (and he's got more EP than Juna at base to boot) but no Burning Heart means he's worse at it than Junie regardless, and he doesn't offer all that much to non-cheese setups other than maybe Arts Support 2.  5.5/10.

Machias: While Machias may not have Burning Heart, he does have a bunch of other nonsense going for him that applies to almost any team, cheese or non-cheese you could think of except maybe, MAYBE fast cast spamming (and even then he gets Auto-Charge 2).  His own offense isn't anything to write home about as usual, but someone's gotta keep the engines of broken running and Machias does that job nicely.  6/10.

Laura: Oof, big f here.  So when you're occupying one dimension as Laura does you want to be the best at it, and unfortunately for Laura in CS4 she now has Actual Competition when it comes to her role and said competition just have more to offer in general.  This, much like how it is with Kurt, does not lend itself well to the idea of Laura actually having gameplay prescence, and while a part of me says that since she at least is good at something relevent she should get a higher score than him she uh doesn't even have the decency to have an impede craft and Kurt's deals magic damage which is better anyways so uh I don't think I actually can.  3/10.

Emma: Castbest ATS as per usual but again her S-Craft might as well not exist.  And the castbest ATS isn't even that significant (though the Mirage locks help I guess).  She does get Auto-Charge 2 at least but she doesn't get it until Link Lv6 so she's losing to Altina/Machias/Crow at that too.  At least she doesn't have it nearly as bad as Laura though.  5/10.

Gaius: Okay here's where I most strongly disagree with Tide because everything you need to make Gaius busted is basically handed to you and getting around the initial downsides to pulling off loop nonsense with him is pretty much trivial in terms of expenditure, and even that expenditure basically goes away completely once your options expand.  So to start things off, Gaius has the best S-Craft in the game at 4S/All that upgrades to 4S+, however that's not what makes it stupid.  No, what makes it completely stupid is that it also applies completely irresistable AT Delay and that it's attached to someone who can trade HP for CP.  "But Random!" you say "It only adds 8 clockticks and S-Crafts have huge delay, it can't be that good!"  Sure, pulling off a loop with it in the beginning isn't the most elegant thing in the world since you do need to maintain Gaius's HP and don't have stupid amounts of passive CP gain, but the fact that you *just got access* to a Chrono Burst quartz to go along with Musse's Brave Order solves a whole lot of problems there, doesn't it?  The dirty secret, of course, is that you don't need this loop to go on infinitely (and indeed, S-Crafts can't generate BP on their own so this can't), just long enough to build back the BP needed to start the loop again, plus it's stronger than Juna's basic physicals so you probably don't need to early anyways.  And of course once your options expand, the less work you need to do to make it work.  Now sure, since this involves piggybacking off of others and he's merely solid outside of this I'm definitely not gonna give him a better score than Juna, let alone Musse, but this does work with literally zero sepith investment, and that does deserve some Jeigan points.  7/10.

Rean: Rean, by comparison, offers little outside of his good selection of Brave Orders and his speed, and while I like self buffs I also uh like having control of my PCs.  He does get a solid powerspike on the last day thanks to those bonding accessories and an upgrade to his S-Craft but that's mostly a conventional play sort of thing.  6.5/10.

Crow: Like Sara, Crow is just a pile of good stats without anything that makes him cheap, Azure Destiny is one heck of a self buff but at 100 CP it had better be and while Chaos Raven is probably better than Rean's two cheap filler Brave Orders it's not better than those AND Divine Song.  On the plus side, he also gets Auto-Charge 2 so that counts for something at least.  5.5/10.

Duvalie: Uh.  Yeah unless you're cheaping out with infinite Chrono Burst I really don't have much good to say here.  Locked Dunamis MQ is only really good for randobusting and her craft list/ATS combo isn't amazing for it anyways, and range 1+no Wind locks is pretty much the worst combo for an evade build and that's not great anyways.  I'm not sure how much I like only one Space lock for infinite Chrono Burst anyways but this is at least something she has on the worst of the cast, so.  4/10.

Angelica: Well she has two Space locks, and locked Emblem MQ is pretty far from the worst thing.  Of course, if you're cheesing the game it's pretty much long since died before you can exploit how stupid having multiple top-end quartz is but a more conventional approach would appreciate the extra power.  That said, I do wish she had better AoE that wasn't tied to her S-Craft, or better ATS failing that.  5.5/10.

Tita: Pretty much unkillable by straight HP damage and that is hilarious considering that it's freakin' *Tita*.  Her only downsides are having kind of bad ATS and garbage speed but she hits hard.  Pretty easily a 7 if she stuck around for the final dungeon as Tide said but as it stands a 6.5/10 will have to do.

Sharon: Yeah can't say I'm a fan of locked Gloom MQ, it's not even that great for randobusting because high status resistance abounds when she's around and "when she's around" is basically just the pre-final dungeon part of the last day so uh loud shrug.  This is still probably more presence than Kurt and Laura have though.  3.5/10.

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