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Messages - Random Consonant

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1
Tournaments / Re: Futurama 2023 Week 5 + Rankings!
« on: February 07, 2024, 05:48:42 PM »
Godlike

Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4) - You know I was gonna be all like lol hyping temporary eject as match winning but the fact that 4D pocket does reset the turn gauge honestly is a legitimate secondary effect to go through (see also: Weissman's EP busting) so I guess Belial gets to go back to being complete DL cancer.  You win, assholes, happy now?

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) - Yeah not really buying the supervillain evade powers saving her from getting wrecked by dark damage.

Middle

Minoriko Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree) vs Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) - um Minoriko needs to buff to not get ORKO'd and it saves her from being heal locked basically never, so she needs to juggle that, refreshing the defense buff, and trying to find the room to 2RKO with Autumn Sky (no, Dedue is not switching to a thrown weapon to counter that, 3H thrown counters are trash).  Considering that 1) Dedue has a 17% crit rate and 2) Minoriko only enjoys a 11-10 turnsplit this uh does not actually work out for her.

Light

Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage) vs Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Agreeing that Mediator is secretly too strong for Light.

Obviously rank both P5 (not sold on the Joker for Bluelike arguments but he's a massive research headache anyways so I'd be happy to silo him off) and Triangle Strategy.  P1 would need a revised stat topic badly and apparently no one can be bothered to fill that need so I won't say rank it but at the same time there's not anything particularly *unrankable* about it other than game not good (maybe I'll buy into that reasoning when we boot FF8.)

2
Tournaments / Re: Futurama 2023 Week 4
« on: January 27, 2024, 03:23:10 PM »
Godlike

Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4) - Endgame FF6 bosses surviving double Tank Drop is really not something I see happening ever.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) - Think so.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Minoriko Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V) - You don't really beat Minoriko with mdef-subject magic attacks unless you're really good at it.  Shaman... is not really good at it.

Light

Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage) - Zelkov 4HKOs even after factoring in the added damage from poison and probably doesn't double (he's +4.6 AS against the average that factors smash weapons, Mediator is above average and, as far as my own views are concerned, is probably one of the generics that would want to default to sprint shoes instead of a bracer or magic bracer), so he runs into the same problems as Heather does here.

Data Mine

Bravely Default II - Played
Chained Echoes - Not played
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance - Played
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny - Not played
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless - Played
Fire Emblem Engage - Played
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree - Played
Octopath Traveler II - Played
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess - Not played
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom - Not played
This Way Madness Lies - Played
Triangle Strategy - Played

3
Tournaments / Re: Futurama 2023 Week 3
« on: January 12, 2024, 06:54:38 AM »
Godlike

Riou (Suikoden II) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - +0.72 SD isn't faster than 119% first turn speed under any interp that I know of.  Maybe the old stat topic had Riou as faster?
Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) - Doubles off the bat, 2HKOs with Tank Drop.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)
Temenos Mistral(Octopath Traveler II) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) - If PS4 sleep turns out to be relevent here I'll laugh.
Byakuren Hijiri (Labyrinth of Touhou) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Rinkah (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V) - Rinkah mostly spoils physical fighters, which Shaman isn't.
Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Kyrie (Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark) - e: wait shit Dedue isn't doubled if he uses gauntlets, that is such an alien concept but whatever, it means that plan doesn't work.  I'm... not sure Kyrie has much of an answer outside of attack breaking then?  It'll mess Dedue up bad but I don't see how Kyrie beats out a gauntlet crit without considering beams miss a 4HKO.  e2: oh right One-Two Punch is basically almost as good as a Brave Axe+ too.  Yeah really leaning towards Kyrie not having this after all.

Light

Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage) - Primrose damage is kind of wretched and I absolutely would see Engage mounted mages beating out an 8PT PC on initiative.  I'm no great fan of Allure hype either.
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Heather (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) - Sure, goes first and Threatens.  The numerically better range isn't terribly relevent to me but it's not the sort of thing I'd see provoking FE counters anyways.  Heather's 16.75% chance of Bane procs isn't enough.
Vitali (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage) - Given Vitali's bad defensive matchup here this is probably right.

4
Tournaments / Re: Futurama 2023 Week 2
« on: January 07, 2024, 03:19:04 AM »
While I agree that arguing based on WA4's arena size is generally a non-starter, I was under the distinct impression that Yulie couldn't act after moving anyways, which would render this somewhat moot unless you wanted to fall back on kiting arguments based on Tiki's bad threat range and I don't really know how I feel about those, especially considering she loses her buffs by doing so.

5
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: January 06, 2024, 06:35:04 AM »
This Way Madness Lies: Why yes I just befriended Not!Cthulhu (he punched himself to death soon afterwards)

Fairly nice cast balance overall?  Even the characters I was most eh aren't really dire or anything.  Availablilty for characters not named Imogen/Miranda/Beatrice on the other hand...

Imogen: Well, she's forced but you'd probably want to field her anyways since both the stats and the skillset are pretty good, nice selection of damage (including light, which no one else really gets), some healing skills (one of which can be made full MT while in hyper), stun (with ailment hp bypassing vulnerability inflictions), charm (with damage boost if inflicted while hyper) and offense buffing's there too if you want it.  I guess her early traits aren't all that exciting?  7/10.

Paulina: Well she heals a lot and can be durable... eventually.  The former's nice early when you don't really have better options, but overall she doesn't really have damage and her ability to inflict ailments is entirely reliant on items and also basically nonexistant.  Probably looks a bit better towards the end since you can probably do things with Long Winter but that's final dungeon level late.  4/10.

Viola: Viola hits things.  Repeatedly.  She doesn't do much but hit things (and be somewhat durable) and isn't *especially* exciting about it outside her ability to get extra turns (thereby cheating her hyper gauge) while doing so but hey.  She is pretty frontloaded, so that's nice, at least.  5.5/10.

Rosalind: Unlike the previous two, Rosalind's more of a generalist who's good at stats that aren't HP or speed.  The skillset, on the other hand... it's pretty iffy early, especially when not hyper but then you get a bunch of good stuff MT healing, strong vulnerable infliction, a charge effect (hi vulnerable)... stuff like that.  Also gets a trait which lets her do +50% more damage to vulnerable enemies which can get into 5-digit damage territory levels of hilarious.  Viola's better early, but not by enough to make up for how much better I found Rosalind late.  6/10.

Miranda: Um.  Miranda is *weird*.  Her power's pretty junky, she's kind of frail, her skillset is sort of all over the place and unlike every other character, going hyper shifts her functionality from offensive status slinger to defensive... something, I'm not sure what.  Also she's forced a lot, and while I can safely say I eventually felt comfortable with the offensive part of the skillset (some of which is actually quite nice) I can't say I was galaxy brain enough to comfortable enough with her entire gimmick.  LVP?  I'm not entirely certain, she does at least have a good enough ailment stat to the point where you're okay with an odd dead turn where you Cat Ears/Shield Breaker something if you have to but janky support character is pretty down there on the Zeboyd games comptence hierarchy.  4/10.

Beatrice: Hey everyone it's time for BIG POIZN.  BIG POIZN is actually pretty good apart from the fact that it can't be lethal turns out (especially since it doesn't get rid of vulnerable).  Not to be content with that she also has all the ailments, all of them, in multitarget form so that's also nice (too bad the upgrade to Woo seems to be bugged to not use the listed values), as well as a charge skill for ailments (that can even be targetted on others while hyper, which is crazy).  Direct damage is pretty lacking overall (it's all dark unless you set an early trait to make it pierce, and there's not that much of it) and the durability is kinda bad again but oh well, probably clears MVP anyways because charm and BIG POIZN.  7.5/10.

Kate: TANK.  Kind of proactive about it but not in an especially reliable way?  Having another source of targettable unstoppable is nice, of course, and the skillset otherwise... could be worse for what she's supposed to be doing.  Honestly the main reason I used her because of her unite with Imogen which lets each party member null an attack.  Probably enough for a 5/10.

6
Tournaments / Re: Futurama 2023 Week 2
« on: December 31, 2023, 08:00:54 PM »
Godlike

Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Eiriko 'Elly' Kirishima (Persona) - Pass.
Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Polaris (Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor 2) - alright who nommed the boss that doesn't have stat topic data.  Anyways I suspect Snowfire's kneejerk works for me.
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Simeon (Octopath Traveler) - I'll bite.


Heavy

Shadow (Final Fantasy VI) vs Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) - Probably.
Odie (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) vs Byakuren Hijiri (Labyrinth of Touhou) - Probably
Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy) - Sure I guess.

Middle

Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Baba Yaga (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) - It's not... impossible for Baba to pull this off but she'd need to get very lucky with Dedue's questionable accuracy since her only real avenue is to chickenize Wind Arrow.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Tiki (Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem) - Yulie doesn't really like the fact that New Mystery is one of those rare FEs where every enemy and their grandmothers have a big fat 0 where their luck stat should be.

Light

Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Ribombee (Pokémon Sun/Moon) - Pass.
Heather (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) vs Benedict Pascal (Triangle Strategy) - lol
Vitali (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) vs Frederica Aesfrost (Triangle Strategy) - ok yeah that is one of the worst possible draws for Frederica right there.
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage) - Big Joe wins due to there being no Engage character named Velkov Not *quite*, Big Joe.

7
Tournaments / Re: Futurama 2023 Week 1
« on: December 27, 2023, 07:09:45 PM »
Godlike

Riou (Suikoden II) vs Ezel Granada (Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier) - Skeletor doesn't take a Forgiver Sign without support credit, but I'm willing enough to give him that.  Riou is certainly not chipping around horrendous murder range any time soon.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Tim (Brigandine: Legend of Runersia) - The evade's probably too much.
Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V) vs Harbinger (Etrian Odyssey Nexus) - One way or another Harbinger is getting taken out of the fight.
Olberic Eisenberg (Octopath Traveler) vs Temenos Mistral(Octopath Traveler II) - I don't really like that the 8PT2 topic takes night damage figures for Throne but not Temenos but doing some math it looks like Tememos manages the kill readjusting for that anyways.
Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) vs Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) - Even if Xander could 2HKO Kyra at base (it's probably close), Warla exists so no dice.

Middle

Empoleon (Pokémon) vs Minoriko Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) - Uh kneejerking here.  Empy's physical damage at the offset is really bad and since Drill Peck is Flying Minoriko could arguably resist it some thanks to affinity nonsense.  Swagger is probably Empy's best hope but since Minoriko's ATK is nonexistant anyways it's not actually getting her down faster, and since Minoriko has a faster 3HKO anyways there's a lot that can go wrong.
Peter (Shining Force II) vs Rinkah (Fire Emblem Fates) - Oh Rinkah has Counter in addition to counters, that's probably gonna spoil here.  Rinkah only 6HKOs him on her own turns after Firey Blood but since she's durable enough to reduce Peter to a 4HKO (and Peter doesn't double, in case that would matter) this doesn't really matter.
Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V) - Probably correct.

Light

Thief (Final Fantasy V) vs Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) - If FF5 Thief failed it up against PALMER imagine how well they do against someone with better evade and a regen game.
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Seraphina (Disgaea 5) - Think this is probably correct, Sera's damage is a midrange 5HKO to average (so 4HKOs Primrose) and since she goes second that's probably not fast enough.  The evade does murk things up some, but probably not enough to outweigh Primrose having an effective 3HKO here.
Umaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage) - Elsurge does its thing.

8
General Chat / Re: What games are you playing 2023: WGAYP, Engage!
« on: November 08, 2023, 12:38:09 AM »
Star Ocean 2 R: played it on universe, it's great.  not quite all i asked for but i got like, 95% of what i theorhetically could've wanted out it so not gonna complain.

9
Unranked Games / Re: Trails to Reverie - Bad Stat Topic Ideas: The Game
« on: October 21, 2023, 01:24:07 AM »
Pretty sure what I saw said MQ boosts were additive as well.

Magic-based crafts should still be ATS vs ADF yeah.

500 U-Mats/PC seems fine enough as a baseline to me.

10
Unranked Games / Re: Trails to Reverie - Bad Stat Topic Ideas: The Game
« on: October 18, 2023, 11:05:16 PM »
The basic damage formula seems similar enough to Zero-CS2's from what I've been able to gather except for the fact that a lot of the damage increasers (including crits and I think the 200 CP bonus for S-Crafts but NOT brave orders) are additive rather than multiplicative.  I don't -think- they messed with the power mults but if they did it should be easy enough to catch.  Anyways crits are +50%, break (if break ever ends up being relevent who knows) is +20%, the characters with magical normal attacks use STR against ADF with them (this includes Mr. Postgame).  Those are the main differences that I can think of, anyways.

11
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: October 17, 2023, 04:39:15 AM »
Quote from: Tide
Oh hey, Random responded. Awesome. I love having actual discussions and stuff. Responses and thoughts:

It's nice being able to talk about things about the game that aren't HELL MODE G.

Quote from: Tide
I keep forgetting Burning Heart exists because the rest of Lloyd's build is just pretty unimpressive. His locked nodes suck and his crafts outside of Zero Breaker and Burning hearts are eeeeeeeeh. Like seriously, ST damage for 80 CP is not exactly great shakes. He's the worst of the 3 Protags - I just waffle on how good he is. His BOs are worse than both of Rean's and C's and I find him in some very stiff competition when you start comparing the As. But between B or C tier... sure I have no qualms of him being a B Tier PC. The biggest issue he has is that his best role (if you want to call it that) is tanking and he gets overtaken in that department largely by Tita, so he's usually doing a secondary role or something.

I think this is reasonable enough for the most part, if he has an argument for A tier it's very much based on One Weird Trick that he's not even all that well set up to exploit.  I don't really think 2 Earth/1 Fire is *that* bad

Quote
So of the 3, Randy was the one I used the most primarily due to Crimson Gale's easy CP maintenance early on. Later when everyone gets there stuff, I feel like Agate is the weakest of 3 and Gaius becomes the strongest because as you note Absolute Delay is pretty funky - especially if you start stacking Delays on him. So...moving Randy down to B tier with his other compatriots is probably fine with me as well. He probably has the best BO of the 3, but yeah, that's a relatively minor boon since in the grand scheme of things, Raging Fire is only a 5% damage difference outside of the buff and I don't find the buff on BO from Agate to be that meaningful (at least for sweeping...Emblem starts with All Stats Up L, which is enough for what you're going for).

Reasonable, Randy does do a pretty good job at randosweeping and I'd agree that's he'smore attractive than Agate in that regard.

Quote
Yeah agreed. Absolute Guard is a really good back door escape option and both girls work in this role. The issue is, I don't think either is quite a B Tier PC because other than that, they are pretty inter-changeable with other casters. And yeah, eating a S-craft is generally not something you want to do, but even in the event you don't an Absolute Guard BO ready, stuff like Elliot's Sapphirl Symphony exists and that cuts off 70% damage and gives Regen. That's enough of a save most of the time if needed. I think Tio is slightly better because her craft set is a bit more focused whereas Altina always has the weird flurry that she always has, but that's largely preference at this point.

Yeah don't get me wrong, I don't think this is better than Elliot the one-man panic button in the grand scheme of things but I also don't think the difference is that great.

Quote
So this is just me liking the bell curve to be symmetrical. Ie: Top of S tier should match the bottom of the lowest tier. So if I have 4 on top, then 4 should be on the bottom with the majority of the cast lumped somewhere in the middle. And the issue then is, if Alisa isn't S tier, who replaces her in that? And it's pretty hard to think of something else who does. Because yeah, Heavenly Gift alone isn't S tier...but the rest of Alisa's stat mix is pretty solid and she's a good caster, which is better of the two default roles if you had to choose. Again, while I didn't order the tiers when initially grouping them, she's probably on the tail end for sure.

Fair!  I'd probably agree with Alisa in S if I were rating on a curve myself.

Quote
I got a lot of use out of her BO during Chapter 2. It's the combo of slight heal + 50% Evade boost for a notable duration. Needing only 50% Evade to reach 100% helps a lot. Like Elise gets outclassed pretty bad late - but compared to say Lechter, she definitely feels better than him! Maybe I'll use them more to get a better feel. Lechter is definitely more mage oriented though because his crafts in general are pretty sketchy.

I think this is mostly just a question of offense vs. defense, since Lechter's BO is +40% damage with 2-turn Insight and Elise is 50% evade with some HP/CP healing.  Rean C2 probably just makes you care more because of that fight that throws a Gospel at you and doesn't let you use Elliot or Altina.

Quote
Yep - no problem with this either. Another case of not sure if she's in the higher or lower one. In the end I went with B because I'm pretty sure you can do some neat things with Concealing Wind. Just people think of her as Evade tank and call it shut. Again, will likely experiment a bit.

Well this is mostly me autopiloting on a Fie vs Rixia comparison and well, Rixia has her own stealth thing too!

Quote
Weak is cool! Just 60 CP isn't exactly cheap like Towa's 20 CP Weakener. The other issue is that since it's a craft, it means you can't use Bells to soften the recovery and turns spent where you are using it are turns Nadia isn't casting...which runs contrary to her unique accessory. Which speaking of, maybe it's just me, but I also didn't find it super valuable. Like I kept it cause it was unique, but if you had the choice between raising Speed or improving Cast speed, the former is usually better because it helps with the recovery of various moves and skills. On top of that, she's paired with C and if you are using Fast Cast strats, the value of that accessory diminishes because you can't get lower than 1 Clocktick for any casting. Maybe this changes on higher difficulties, but I certainly didn't feel like either things was super advantageous for her.

Well Towa's Weakner is also single target only, which can be fine, but there's enough fights where being able to hit multiple enemies with it at once is still valueable, and it's not like you have a shortage of casters on C's route to exploit it.  And sure, eventually the accessory becomes pointless because of the cast time floor but you don't actually hit that for a while even with fast cast BOs, and maybe this is just me feeling sepith/u-material starved but I didn't feel like there was enough going around in the +spd accessory department to compete with it for a while.

Quote
We definitely agree that both are probably bottom feeders - especially if you discount STONE characters. I think my preference for Swin is that C's route lacks any true front line character. Lapis tries but her HP is pretty low so she can't really tank. So Swin being an extra warm body while C and Nadia light things up *does* help even if he goes down after like 2 hits because let's face it - he's not much more durable than her. Comparatively, what reason is there ever really to put Kurt into the team that the other characters available cannot cover? I have a real tough time answering that.

My general approach to C's route was to forgo pretty much any idea of direct tanking because... yeah.  But since we agree that the only reason to bother with either is the result of a forced hand, my general though process is that Kurt has a better toolkit to work with (access to impede, slightly better AoE access, self buff that doesn't take until Lv200 to be worthwhile) and feels less bad to be forced into using as a result, so the only way Swin above Kurt would make sense to me is to curve performance on individual routes and discount the TRC entirely.


12
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: October 16, 2023, 09:55:07 PM »
Fire Emblem Engage: The other reason for my laziness in this topic because I'm supposed to be obligated to think about this pile of meh or something.

Anyways I wouldn't describe character balance as being particularly good outside of there being an overall lack of slam dunk characters.  The lower end of things... is better than some but there's too much that I'd consider irredeemable.  Anyways.

Alear: Weird and hard to rate fairly.  Bizarrely the closest comparison I have is Micaiah where getting good use out of them requires some lateral thinking around their perks of Rose Thorn 2.0, convoy access, and the only dragon typing you'll see until C22 because their combat is pretty mid otherwise.  I think it works overall, even if I didn't make the arguable best use of it.  7/10.

Vander: So 40 HP to start with is actually a lot, turns out, and lets you get away with more than you should with those stats.  Has a clear point of obsolencese and paladin is a very weak class in this game but it's hard to argue with the early game performance when you have so much incompetence going around.  5/10.

Clanne: So tomes are actually good in this game.  Clanne... is less good.  Middling bases, shaky offensive growths (and mixed offensive builds aren't really wonderful in general), bad personal but 75% of the cast has bad personals so whatever... I really don't see what he has to recommend him over literally any other tome user in the game.  3/10.

Framme: Early staff filler.  You use her because staves are good and then you bench her once you get better options.  Same score as Vander works.  5/10.

Alfred: What the fuck.  I guess he's durable when he's not getting doubled by things but cavalry is a weak class tag and stat spread is pretty uninspiring.  2/10.

Etie: Early bow user.  You use her because the game uses fliers early but above average strength as your only good stat doesn't really work out long term.  3.5/10.

Boucheron: You know I wouldn't be averse to the whole axe myrm thing he tries to do if his bases were more agreeable.  As is... he's durable via HP but not to the extent that Vander is early (and not really more durable than Alfred when he's not being doubled either) and the poor luck stat is a flight risk unless you give him an engrave or a compact axe which nah.  2.5/10.

Céline: Better start than Clanne but still has a lot of the same issues.  Her luck does make her a good candidate for some Divine Pulse staff nonsense but that doesn't come until Hortensia joins and, well.  4/10.

Chloé: One of the few glimpses of true earlygame competence.  Offense can be a bit of an issue but she has a personal which can help with her issues there (gasp!  An actually useful personal skill in Engage!) but being a flier is nice and the speed is screaming.  Others can outdo her with class swapping but the ones that can join later and miss out on early Canter so I don't think I'd call them better.  7.5/10.

Louis: One of the other glimpses of true earlygame competence.  Amazing defense and immunity to break are some pretty great boons early.  Falls off once promotions start happening because he gets doubled by mages and explodes to them and enemy backups foil the concrete tanking thing (unless you give him Corrin.  Don't give him Corrin.) but it's really hard to argue with that earlygame.  6/10.

Jean: Early staff filler except he joints like four and a half chapters later with nothing to show for it.  Trying to leverage his personal is a pretty bad trap if you ask me, Engage not really the sort of game where it's worth messing around with that kind of project, the game shows a lot of teeth and it shows them very early.  2/10.

Yunaka: So daggers are actually pretty good in this game and thieves are the only ones that get to use them before promoting... too bad thief isn't a great class long term and Yunaka's stats aren't the greatest.  Still probably better than whatever the hell Clanne is doing with his life.  5/10.

Anna: Oh look it's Boucheron with a worse start and a more convoluted gimmick.  Either you suffer through 5 levels of axefighter with her and make her a radiant bow user, or you switch her to mage and have her do very little that Citrinne isn't already doing for you.  No.  1/10.  BUT SHE IS ONE OF THE TWO CHARACTERS WHO CAN MAKE SS DISHES IN THE SOMNIEL

Alcryst: Somewhat better than Etie and has a more useful personal.  Still not really that great.  4.5/10.

Lapis: Lapis is better than what I intially kneejerked but she still suffers from being in a very weak class and needs two seals to really function as a PC, and that's not something I look kindly on unless you're bringing something truly useful to the table.  Alear can do this, Lapis... doesn't really do anything that Chloé isn't already doing.  4/10.

Citrinne: Citrinne is also better than what I initially kneejerked and in her case it's somewhat significant?  Mage Knight is pretty good for her, turns out, +3 speed on promotion plus +3 more against physicals once Chaos Style shows up is pretty nice.  Too bad Ivy exists though but otherwise she's fine?  6/10.

Diamant: Aggressively mid.  Basically Alear with some stat shuffling and without the stuff that makes Alear cool.  5/10.

Amber: Very strong but as mentioned before cavalry is a weak class tag and he'd be better off as anything else so he has the same problems as Lapis and as such, gets the same score.  4/10.

Jade: Louis who is worse at everything that matters and sports low luck at a time when enemies start packing steel weapons.  Which is actually a concern instead of a complete joke since IntSys finally learned to not make them ridicuously heavy and also gave them +5 crit because ???.  Anyways Jade bad.  2/10.

Ivy: Tomes good.  Staves good.  Flying good.  Ivy is the only one of two characters who gets all three.  She joins at the point where people start missing out on early Canter and the stat spread is merely good (outside of DEX/LCK but who cares after C14, Ivy probably makes the best use of an Academy engrave) but those are the only real problems.  Anyways Engage isn't the sort of game that lends itself to a high score cieling but I think Ivy does hit that cieling.  8/10.

Kagetsu: Hello, yes, it's Stat God Kagestu, here to wait patiently until he can reclass into something that isn't swordmaster and then kill everything.  Fortunately he doesn't have to wait that long.  7/10.

Zelkov: Generally better stats than Yunaka, but joins at a point where thief dagger use is less attractive.  Probably worth the same score.  5/10.

Fogado: Generally the best radiant bow user unless you want to baby Anna (you don't want to baby Anna) but since the radiant bow has 19 mt this is actually a pretty good niche.  Not terribly impressive outside of this as he sports the same offensive issues seen on Chloé but hey.  5.5/10.

Pandreo: Then you get this guy who's basically just Bishop Pent except you can reclass him into something with a better tome rank if you want.  7.5/10.

Bunet: Um.  At least you don't have to baby him so he's maybe better than Anna?  Maybe?  There really isn't anything good to say about him, the clear loser among the Solm retainers.  1.5/10.

Timerra: Well crit debuffing is nice and she's fine on her join map... just so many issues longterm.  I haven't really seen a way to get milage out of her outside of Sandstorm procs and the problem with that is that you're relying on *proc skills* which is not a wonderful place for a character to be in.  But that's still nicer than what I said about Alfred so.  4/10.

Panette: Panette is a character where I saw the glass jaw before the ridicious strength stat and reclassing/emblem potential and wound up making an unfair initial assessment because she's actually pretty good once you work around those issues.  7/10.

Merrin: Kagetsu with worse stats but starts off in an actually good class.  It roughly balances.  7/10.

Hortensia: See Ivy, except swap the staff/tome ranks and give her a speedy but physically frail and low damage stat build.  You're here for the staff cheese though.  7.5/10.

Seadall: So I said there was only so high the rating cieling can go for Engage characters and Ivy hit that cieling.

I lied.

So normally the problems that plague single-refresh dancers is that 1) they tend to be low move, 2) they tend to be liabilities when caught by enemies, and 3) you're simply optimizing your existing action economy instead of actually improving it, so if you mess up and the worst cast scenario under 2 happens, well, maybe you should've fielded someone else in that slot instead.  Seadall's... not as good at avoiding 2 as 3H dancers can be but makes up for that by virtue of the fact that you just got a pair of boots lying in one of Solm Castle's doodad drawers, the fact that you can buy Canter for everyone and it may as well be a free skill for him, and the fact that an engaged character's actions tend to be more valueable than an unengaged character's actions so the action economy optimization is better than "give your best character another action" is in other games.  It's ridiculous and even if you, like me, didn't actually use him it should be painfully obvious to see why he's great.  9/10.

Rosado: I vaguely recall doing the math and found that his bases were disappointingly close to a level 20/1 Chloé, which isn't helped by his decision to be an axe/spear person to start off with.  I also distinctly recall him being unable to oneshot the corrupted wyrm that exists to be an Eirika engage attack tutorial on Hard mode.  Needless to say these were not great impressions.  4/10.

Goldmary: Okay physical filler and hero is a perfectly fine class to exist in, so better than Rosado, for all that I like him far better.  5/10.

Lindon: Solid magic filler with some crit build potential.  Far worse life choices to make, certainly.  6/10.

Saphir: Okay physical filler character with an iffy personal skill.  4.5/10.

Mauvier: Pile of solid stats, wants a better class to be in than Royal Knight because good grief that thing.  5/10.

Veyle: Oh look, it's dragon typing and it's just in time for Alear to get peak magical vtuber powers so someone else can use Byleth for the rainbow instruct/dance, that's nice.  6/10.


13
Discussion / Re: Ranking characters by in-game use: obscura edition
« on: October 16, 2023, 08:27:02 PM »
Quote from: Tide
Trails to Reverie Rankings - Standard Difficulty as always. If they wanted to make things harder, should have done that and slapped Normal / Standard on that instead. Anyway, some notes here as well because this game is massive (also surprised no one else has made a post about it).

Well 51 characters is a lot to cover and a lot of them just run together in the mind a lot, especially since for a number of them there isn't really anything you could say about them that you couldn't for the past 4 games.  Also I've been very lazy about this lately.

I think I broadly agree with the overall rationale so I don't have much to say about the cast other than quibbling with placement.  Not going to comment on the characters gained through ORBS.

Lloyd: Higher, though by how much depends on whether or not you can break the Chrono Burst restriction with Burning Heart.  Still, having suction is good, defense... isn't actually completely shameful to have for once for all that I still wouldn't call his stat build brilliant, his BOs are fine since bosses get turns again, and Burning Heart is still pretty dumb.

Elie: About right, I think.  Panic button and the ability to inflict weak is great, but she still has the general caster woes and Strike Bell getting demoted to a BO doesn't help.  Her main game availablity is a bit spotty but that's true for pretty much everyone on Lloyd's route except for the man himself.

Randy: Lower.  He's basically Agate except War Cry doesn't self buff and he has a +damage% BO instead of a +break% BO, that's not really enough for a tier's worth of difference, let alone being above Gaius and his lol I inflict absolute delay S-Craft of stupid.

Tio: Higher, though this is mostly Absolute Reflect BO still being completely broken since the counterplay to them is rare and hers gives CP.  Secondary time lock is nice since you're not sacrificing a free slot for Action or Cast.

Noel: About right.  Her spread ailments around like an absolute lunatic MO actually works this time but that's pretty replaceable.

Wazy: About right, fast cast BOs are nuts and his gives you an ATS buff in the bargain.  Akashic Arm isn't as disgusting relatively speaking as it was in Azure but it's still pretty great.

Rixia: Higher.  So her suction move is actually pretty bangin', big area doubletap for 40 CP?  I'm in.  Honestly seems better than Fie outside of dodgetanking on the strength of that alone.

Lechter: About right.  He's usefuly in Lloyd's second chapter where you don't have warm bodies but that's about it.  Generalists tend to need something special going for them and he really kind of doesn't.

Tita: Lower.  While the durability, while nerfed from CS4 is still kind of hilarious, she's just so slow.  Castworst speed IIRC and she has the dubious distinction of being the only PC to have normal crafts with 3500 delay.  +60% damage for 6 turns is a cool BO effect but for 4 BP it had better be.

Agate: About right.  Wild Rage sure exists and is a thing that says +STR (L) on it and nothing else particularly offends.

Alisa: Lower, I think.  Heavenly Gift is good but the base version isn't S tier good and you're waiting until Trial Door 8 for the upgrade... and I'm not convinced that's S tier good either.

Sharon: About right.  Pretty clearly worse than Rixia due to stats/no self buff and the fact that they priced her 100% evade BO the same as the Absolute Reflect ones is a bit of a bad joke.

Machias: Yeah this is probably his best showing I think.  All the PCs running together in the mind just makes the big thing he brings to the table stand out more.

Towa: Maybe higher?  Weak's a pretty cool thing to be able to inflict but it's hard to argue that she isn't the worst out of the PCs that can do that.  Unlike the others though she does get Arts Boost...

Estelle: Lower.  Iffy stat spread, fairly mid BO.  Ratings on Barrage/Wheel of Time are good but single target lock on them's a strike against.

Joshua: About right.  Saved from mediocrity by Black Fang.

Rean: About right.  I initially considered kneejerking him as lower due to losing the stupidity that was Divine Song but I think the speed's too good for that.

Juna: About right.  Her CS4 niches kind of got eroded for various reasons and she has to wait a bit to get Accelerate... but really, with so many cast members running together in the mind the fact that she gets an Accelerate craft and can exist alongside Machias at all is still good enough for this tier.

Kurt: ...About right.  There isn't actually much redeemable about him, but he's not Swin, which is the only thing that gives me pause here.

Altina: Higher.  Again, like Tio this is mostly Absolute Reflect BOs being broken.

Ash: Higher.  He's still pretty mid but the craft list is good enough to dodge a D.

Musse: About right.  The demise of spammable Chrono Burst and the nerf to her BO means there's little she does to stand out.

Claire: ...About right.  Generalist stat build with nothing except an Accelerate BO going for her.

Elise: Lower.  Pretty much everything I said about Lechter applies to her as well, except she brings healing to a fight that shuts orbments off.  I guess that's more notable but not enough for a tier's worth of difference.

Millium: About right.  The eternal problem child strikes out again.

Jusis: Lower.  Generalist stat build problems.  Elvars helps a bit but the individual buffs are too paltry and Platinum Shield is competing with a bunch of other broken defensive options.  Those and Boost Arts are good enough to dodge a D but he's still very mid.

Elliot: About right.  There's really nothing you can say about him that hasn't been said in every CS game ever.

Crow: ...Yeah this is about right.  His base ATS isn't amazing but he benefits from fast cast setups so much it isn't funny, and even if you don't want to do that for whatever reason he still has a lot of the things that Rean also has going for him.  I'd probably be inclined to argue that Low Rent C is better but that's it.

Emma: About right.  She can CP battery, she can do the caster thing, but neither of these things are especially standout.

Sara: About right.  Lacks what Crow and We Have C At Home bring to the table but she certainly tries.

Gaius: Higher.  Howling Heavens is still a thing that says Absolute Delay and the demise of Chrono Burst loops just means this is very stupid instead of utterly gobsmackingly stupid, Golden Howl is still a thing that trades HP for CP says +STR, and like Rean he actually has passable casting ability.  I guess his BO is still bad?

Fie: Lower.  Dodgetanking is great and all but that's mostly all she brings to the table.

Laura: About right, maybe higher.  Lion Rush is a heck of a drug considering it has 2000 delay with those ratings and even if it's just for three actions, +80% damage on the BO for 3 BP is solid.  I'm not certain this is enough on the Wild Rage havers though to warrant moving up.

Celine: About right.  You could use literally any other caster instead and lose basically nothing worth having.

The C Stands For Casval, Actually: Well I already said I'd arguably consider him better than Crow.  Impressive stats, for one.  Dark Requiem may not be Divine Song but it's still ridiculous.  Zevarl is silly since it's an attack that also gives +SPD (L), Noblesse Rune is silly since it gives +STR/ATS (M/L) AND 1 BP for 1000 delay... I guess he shows up in the TRC later than Crow does?  Regardless he's absurd.  but what do you expect considering it's Rufus who's been hyped to hell in the story?

Swin: ...Lower.  I find Swin to the be the worst PC in the game and I don't think it's particularly close.  Problematic stat spread, junk craft list, bad BO, generally no real perks outside of his really convoluted Marking gimmick which doesn't really work since it doesn't offer enough to be worth it.  I guess he has Arts Boost for C-louche's party in the timeframe where Renne isn't around but ugh.

Nadia: Higher.  She actually has a fair amount going for her so I'm actually the most surprised by this one.  First, she gets a unique accessory that's basically a free Cast 3 quartz, that's pretty great.  Secondly, she gets Threddy Bear, which is a thing that says inflicts Weak and inflicting Weak is pretty good.  I guess Fire's not the most amazing primary lock for a caster to optimize around but she's pretty good outside that.

Lapis: About right.  Pretty much Edel Heart/10 since she has the generalist issues on top of being rather undurable.

Renne: Probably higher.  Has Arts Boost, has an accelerate BO that also gives fastcasting, has a self buff that gives +ATS/SPD (M) and 1 BP, agreeable stats for what she wants to be doing.

Duvalie: About right.  Apparently she went to the Alan Richard school of fast craft spam between games but forgot that she was dealing with CS3 onwards CP costs so somewhat comically she's almost TOO fast to really function.  Still a damn sight better than whatever her CS4 showing was trying to do.

Arios: About right, his Gale has All Cancel attached to it, nothing else is even relevent.  (He's still good outside of this.)

14
Godlike:

T260G (SaGa) vs. Belial (WA4) - Belial needs way too much time here and smashcan isn't walled by distortion.


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Byleth Eisner (FE3H) - Honestly Byleth has no way to avoid a L2 to me barring a lucky crit at the right time.

not gonna bother with voting on the rematches

15
Godlike:

Fenrir (VP1) vs. Belial (WA4)


Heavy:

Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6) - Think I agree with this as a kneejerk.


Middle:

Tony (WA4) vs. Byleth Eisner (FE3H) - So Shoot 3HKOs on average, that'd be a bit too much to me (no I am not going to board the absurd cast favoritism train and pretend Shoot isn't something that can't double)... except WM Avoid +20 exists and should let Byleth dodge two out of four attacks.  Two Nos counters + Sublime Heaven won't be enough... but those and a SotC counter will, and the weak Nos healing + Renewal means that Tony will need 3 crits to avoid this which isn't that likely, so yeah saved by that near in-game useless budding talent here.

16
Winners:

T260G (SaGa) vs. Fenrir (VP1) - sure I guess

Losers:

Rika (PSIV) vs. Belial (WA4) - Rika not really hacking this either.  (I still see Rika as being over half of Belial's turnspeed... but yeah asking me to respect the evasion here is too much of an ask.)


Heavy:

Winners:

Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Emelia (SaGa)

Losers:

Edgar (FF6) vs. Lilka (WA2)


Middle:

Winners:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Tony (WA4) - Yeah for Tony to take this one you'd to both not do anything for FF7 limits at all and see Tony not oneshotted by a L1.  Since Tony's not likely dodging a L2 to me, well.

Losers:

Byleth (FE3H) vs. Florina (FE7) - Pretty sure we haven't actually had this one.  Anyways, pretty sure Florina's got a bunch of problems since 1) she's not doubling Byleth with anything, 2) her damage when she's not doubling struggles to meaningfully outpace Renewal, 3) Byleth has Windsweep with its attendant +20 hit to blunt Florina's evade somewhat and not trigger counters, 4) if Florina tries for javelins that uh tanks her AS to the point where Byleth is doubling her with SotC and the AS drop is costing her more evade than what she's getting from partial WTA, so yeah not really seeing the Florina argument here.


Light:

Winners:

Heather (FE10) vs. Virginia Maxwell (WA3) - Yeah knives against Ginny evade isn't working out too well for counter strats to pay off and Heather ain't doubling.

17
Godlike:

Arceus (PKMN) vs. Rika (PSIV) - Not particularly willing to hype Ghost Plate stuffing Elim today, it's probably not turn 1 based on my revised assumptions but that doesn't matter.
Belial (WA4) vs. Killer (SH3)


Heavy:

Edgar (FF6) vs. Asellus (SaGa) - On the other hand I think I'm pretty okay with SaGa Frontier sound immunity spoiling Noiseblaster as a kneejerk, feels like one of those weird things that should probably be rewarded.
Ness (EB) vs. Lilka (WA2) - right, half FP Reflect crest, literally nothing matters.


Middle:

Byleth (FE3H) vs. October (CSTW) - So October's -1.3 SD speed, that's likely gonna land her in Brave Quad range.
Florina (FE7) vs. Elena (G2) - Doubles, goes first, 2RKOs with an iron sword and yeah Nightmare Ball isn't landing turn 1.


Light:

lolnope.

18
Godlike:

Winners:

Killer (SH3) vs. T260G (SaGa) - Think so offhand?
Rika (PSIV) vs. Fenrir (VP1) - Even assuming Rika gets around the evade, what does she do about freeze?

Losers:

Belial (WA4) vs. Nailah (FE10) - See here's the nommed FE godlike that has no theorhetical way around Distortion.


Heavy:

Winners:

Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Lilka (WA2) - Yeah WA2 evade only applies to basic physicals, which Cancel Strike isn't, and Levin is faster by a good margin so Lilka would likely never get her game started anyways.
Emelia (SaGa) vs. Asellus (SaGa)

Losers:

Eirika (FE8) vs. Edgar (FF6)
Auron (FFX) vs. Ness (EB) - Yeah Paralysis is pretty much a complete lock here.  I don't think it'd shut down ODs offhand but the Eject ban means I don't think it'll matter.


Middle:

Winners:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Elena (G2) - Yeah sleep being out means I don't think Elena has any real chance here.
October (CSTW) vs. Tony (WA4) - Dear lord Tony tripleturns her.

Losers:

Byleth (FE3H) vs. vs. Flay (MK) - Right, so both sides have issues here, timed cards aren't counterable but Flay's still all ST save for Screwdriver so Byleth will still get to counter the opening hit, Byleth 3RKOs with SotC at base, goes first, and won't be downed by timed cards before they see a second turn.  However, and here's the real problem... Flay has both Blocker and Last Stand and SotC has something resembling A Crit Rate and those make a big ol' mess of things.  But honestly, the thing with the timed cards is that is also gives Byleth's modest evasion a chance to shine... and two rounds of Buster Star won't 2HKO on average once that and Renewal are accounted for (this is assuming an average that includes phantom PCs for Trick Card purposes for the record, and since Byleth has a good luck stat Flay's own crits aren't likely to be a factor)... but Raiden Charge exists and does have fast recharge on it... so I think the turn order in that case looks like Byleth -> Flay (Raiden Charge) -> Flay (Buster Star), Byleth counters -> Byleth (heals the opening buster star mostly off) -> two Buster Star TC (~46.7% total damage) -> Flay (Buster Star), counter... yeah the problem with that is that then Byleth's turns start breaking up the timed cards in an annoying way so it can't do enough about the fact that Renewal is basically counteracting the time Blocker/Last Stand is buying him.

tl;dr, Flay likely loses in a scenario where Byleth gets more than 6 SotC swings against him, doesn't seem to have a way to avoid such a scenario that I can see, and very well might lose even if there is.

Florina (FE7) vs. Nephenee (FE10) - I actually think this is right barring a more detailed mathematical breakdown.  Nephenee10's not actually that impressive thanks to Sentinel caps, even above average AS will keep her from doubling and her accuracy is below average so even if Florina tanks her AS by using a silver lance to avoid WTD and 3HKO she may well still be able to get a turn 2 dodge (and if you use a higher damage average than I do, well Nephenee just lost her 2HKO), meanwhile Nephenee can't really be said to be dodging in any relevent timeframe.   Really don't think javelins matter much here since those are even worse on accuracy.


Light:

Winners:

Queen (S3) vs. Virginia Maxwell (WA3) - If this is what people who have a more solid grasp of what Ginny's evade amount in DL practice than I do are thinking then I'm not about to disagree.

Losers:

Poshul(CC) vs. Selphie(FF8)

19
Godlike:

Belial (WA4) vs. Chaz Ashley(PSIV) - Even if two shielding it up would let him take two Tank Drops, he doesn't have the level of offense needed to capitalize on it.
Nailah (FE10) vs. Rayquaza(PKMN)


Heavy:

Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) vs. Eirika (FE8) - Revolver Sweep can avoid FE counters but it doesn't matter since Eirika just ORKOs.  Alexia isn't durable.
Kanji (P4) vs. Edgar (FF6)
Clarissa Arwin (WAXF) vs. Auron - Hmm.  Clarissa has the MP for Sacrifice + 8 shots of Rob Turn but... Auron opening with Magic Break does ruin Sacrifice pretty bad (and Sacrifice being ITD is bad against Auron)... and after that she'd need 7 more shots and yeah I dunno, she's probably kind of dead if Auron ever sees a second.


Middle:

Byleth (FE3H) vs. Sylvain (FE3H) - uh kneejerking Byleth despite Sylvain having Swordbreaker?  Sylvain kind of needs to be using Swift Strikes here and while that is, admittedly, a bit unstable thanks to Minor Gautier procs doing that with anything other than iron is getting him doubled so his ability to punch through Renewal is worse and SotC has this cool thing where it's 1-2 range.  Unless you want to hype Swift Striking with Short Spears but no way am I down with that being a repeatable thing on anything requiring Wootz Steel to repair. e: right, Vantage matters here too.  Yeah that's enough to go from uncertain lean to reasonably confident.
Aht (RH) vs. Flay (MK) - So Flay immunes sleep and won't get killed by a Star trap, this probably isn't working out too well for Aht even under the best of circumstances.
Florina (FE7) vs. Blanca (SH2)
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Anastasia(SH2) - Goes first, doubles and 2RKOs under halfshifted averages.  While it's actually not unreasonable for Ana to take this if you toss out laguz non-royals, Ana vs Byleth was an egregious rob so I'm going to be particularly mean here.


Light:

Peppor (CC) vs. Linhardt(FE3H) - Yeah not having stats for any of the Solt/Peppor fights is probably too much of a problem.
Jelanda (VP1) vs. Poshul(CC) - Probably.
Boco (FFT) vs. Selphie(FF8)

20
Interesting.  Going off of that and the respective stat topics it looks like Jowy's +1.1 SD speed would translate to roughly 60 PS4 AGI which I assume is a 70% hit rate on Elim then, and a roughly (e: whoops) +1.323 SD (for 62 PS4 AGI) would be needed to push Elim below turn 1 to me.  Tir would do it though!

21
Godlike

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Killer (SH3)
T260G (SaGa) vs. Chaz Ashley (PSIV) - Going with the option that doesn't require me to guess at Brose accuracy or hype it as working. e: Chaz can avoid a Magnify OHKO if he uses two shields but if neither Brose or Explode is turn 1 it doesn't matter since smashcan will just enforce a heallock anyways
Jowy Atreides (S2) vs. Rika (PSIV) - This feels like one of those times where I wish the PS4 stat topic actually had notes on how well stats affect status odds because Rika sure as hell can't take a Hungry Fiend.  I don't... think Elim is turn 1 here but I'm not certain.  e: right, that detail.


Heavy

Lilka (WA2) vs. Auron (FFX) - yeah don't think this is working out for Auron.
Edgar (FF6) vs. Emelia (SaGa)
Asellus (SaGa) vs. Eirika (FE8)


Middle

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Anastasia (SH2) - Petrify blocker
Blanca (SH2) vs. Elena (G2)
Flay (MK1) vs. October (CSTW) - Flay's not that impressive without timed cards being able to work their magic.
Tony (WA4) vs. Sylvain (FE3H) - Once again, a typical WA4 boss, even one as questionable as Tony, is not something a FE dueler without significant evasion or the ability to kill on counters wants to face.


Light

Heather (FE10) vs. Poshul (CC) - Doubles, counters, has evasion.
Linhardt (FE3H) vs. Queen (S3) - I think so?  Lindhardt isn't doubled if he uses Fire but Queen's average damage output gives her a 3HKO through Renewal and he'll need 6 Fires to kill which is too many.  Nosferatu stalling would be a thought but that gets Lin doubled and Queen does have Heavy Damage...

22
Unless both Tank Drop and Agony Effect somehow became MT when I wasn't looking I'm not sure why y'all are even bothering to discuss this.  Unless you want to argue it's like 3H siege magic and shouldn't double anyways but I don't know if I can bring myself to care when it's not like there's any way you can say for sure.

Come to think of it I'm not even sure if a single use of Raging Storm one-shots the distortion...

23
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)  - Dragon type does it apparently?
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - WELP.
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3) - Shania of the below average speed going first here?  Yeah don't really think so.  Also don't think her low grade fire magic is good enough to punch through Nailah's mdur on a double even with discounting evasion (which, as a reminder, sits somewhere around ~40% even without assuming her in-game useless authority levels) assuming SH3 attack magic works like I think it does.  Anyways even assuming laguz non-royals are tossed out of the average Nailah is very close to a 1-rounding which means very little likely matters here (under halfshifted she just scrapes a 1RKO and literally nothing matters.)


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) - Trusting Tide here.
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) - A USE FOR ZIODYNE YES.  *ahem* Anyways Kanji nulls Elec so Haishao is stuck using Nereid Cyclone which uh.  Um.  Yeah Ziodyne's not THAT terrible an option.
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - e: Oh so Compress actually is bugged, you'd think that'd be something that would be brought up earlier.


Middle:

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - I think this is right?  Both counter eachother but 31 AS with SCS isn't shaky enough that it fails to double Juno of the 102% speed and turn speed buffs don't change this in my view, and Sublime Heaven does have that looming 39 crit rate to punch through as well as Windsweep to delay Hydro Fang coming out... (also as Pyro pointed out before, Swordmaster does exist as an option with its added +10 crit to push things further in their favor)
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3) - This probably takes a bit since Fafnir does have -some- HP but I'm pretty sure Aht does actually have the resource depth needed for this even without any trap hype.  Sure her physical durability sucks, but it's not like Fafnir's physical is any good and a lot of that is a function of her bad HP, so it's not like Fafnir is anywhere close to an effective 2HKO.
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5) - 4a Edward probaby wins, 4o Edward probably loses, like hell I'm going to give this any further thought.
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - Gonna go with the crowd on this one, I guess.
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1) - So Tony doesn't ever break through Heal assuming Fairy Rings, that's great.

24
Godlike

Jowy Atreides (S2) vs. Belial (WA4) - It's possible Jowy might get lucky with dodging but Belial is accurate and +1.1 SD ain't fast enough to fend off her instadoubling by any measure and he doesn't survive two Tank Drops, so I'm not actually sure about this one.
Edelgard (FE3H) vs. Rika (PSIV) - Really now.  Honestly Elim could be turn never and Rika would probably still win this unless you don't limit Raging Storm to OPB (I mean, I wouldn't see PS4 dodging combat arts but it doesn't actually matter.)
Nailah (FE10) vs. Fenrir (VP1) - Not a great time to be a physical FE character in godlike, it seems.

Heavy

Emelia (SaGa) vs. Clarissa (WAXF)
Ness (EB) vs. Asellus (SaGa)
Worker 8 (FFT) vs. Eirika (FE8) - After accounting for StQ/Defense Up, W8 has like ~1.59 pdur to me?  And I am probably willing to buy into Sieglinde getting monster effectiveness here.


Middle

Florina (FE7) vs. Flay (MK1) - Tide's probably right, Florina's likely 3RKOing at best here and 52% evade isn't really cutting it against timed card spam with her poor physical durability.
Dalton (CT) vs. October (CSTW) - Sadly, this is probably right. e: actually was ORB counter only on both forms, it's not listed as such on the one he can actually win matches with and it's been way too long.
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Tony (WA4) - Tony instadoubles, has Micro Missiles for long range action.  Are two javelin counters good enough?  IDK, kind of doubt it, Wrath might help but on the other hand Tony has some weak evade to make a mess of things, and it's not like Nephenee strength is anything special.


Light

Linhardt (FE3H) vs. Tony (WAXF) - Surely.
Queen (S3) vs. Jelanda (VP1) - Probably correct
Boco (FFT) vs. Virginia Maxwell (WA3) - uh surely?  Boco has like 0.61 PCHP and has to run into Ginny's evade, and of course the bird is much slower and has damage so bad that Ginny has no trouble getting a fatal Gatling off.

25
More like 26 -> 29 AS, brave weapons are very heavy and swordmaster isn't even the highest speed class.  29 AS may be enough anyways, but I'm not brave or productive enough to look at what the AS average looks like if everyone goes into their fastest class...

At any rate it doesn't matter anyways since I overlooked Sublime Creator Sword like a dummy which Byleth does double with regardless and 2RKOs Ana so yeah.  The lesson here is don't submit votes at 4 AM.

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