Author Topic: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light  (Read 1053 times)

SnowFire

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Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« on: February 23, 2020, 07:04:25 AM »
Dark mages, dark instant death, and the darkness of 2004.

* Hubert (Fire Emblem Three Houses) - Hubert really doesn't like Elf's DL stat topic assumptions, since fighters are all grabbing Death Blow + Braves, and he isn't getting Dark Knight's Dark Tomefaire.

* Primrose (Octopath Traveler) - Dark magic buddies with Hubert!  She's fast at least, please ignore the questionable damage.

* Yangus (Dragon Quest 8) - Everyone used to think he was Light, then his Grimmer Reaper instant Death was hyped up as 50% in OK's stat topic, then it turned out this was way high even for PS2.  Back to Light!

* Katarina (Suikoden IV) - DL control.  One shot of super Lightning damage!  Pity about being slow and frail and being in a forgettable game.  This is Elf's fault.


Hubert vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Hubert vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Hubert vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Hubert vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Hubert vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Hubert vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Hubert vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Hubert vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Hubert vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Hubert vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Hubert vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Hubert vs. Subaki (FE Fates)


Primrose vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Primrose vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Primrose vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Primrose vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Primrose vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Primrose vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Primrose vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Primrose vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Primrose vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Primrose vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Primrose vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Primrose vs. Subaki (FE Fates)


Yangus vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Yangus vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Yangus vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Yangus vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Yangus vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Yangus vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Yangus vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Yangus vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Yangus vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Yangus vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Yangus vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Yangus vs. Subaki (FE Fates)


Katarina vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Katarina vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Katarina vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Katarina vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Katarina vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Katarina vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Katarina vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Katarina vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Katarina vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Katarina vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Katarina vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Katarina vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

(Copy, find, & replace this to make your own set for obscura!)

XX vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
XX vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
XX vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
XX vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

XX vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
XX vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
XX vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
XX vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

XX vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
XX vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
XX vs. Hix (Suikodens)
XX vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 09:15:05 AM »
Hubie isn't really a fan of the DL in general, really, but yeah he hates braves in the average more than most due to being so reliant on a combat art.

Hubert vs. Lexis (Lufia 2) - Lexis as a Light PG opponent?  Kind of on the wrong border for that if you ask me.  Anyways he just goes first and 2HKOs with his physical, Hubie has no answer to this.
Hubert vs. Lemina (Lunar 2) - Should 3HKO first.
Hubert vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger) - Both 3HKO each other, but Frog has healing.  And Hubie might not be able to 3HKO without getting doubled.
Hubert vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7) - On the one hand I'm probably willing to respect Arrow of Indra+'s range over what is very much a power mage spell.  On the other hand this sinks his AS badly enough that he can't double Nergal with it, so the question is does Hubie 3HKO with it?  Probably?  He needs to.
Hubert vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6) - Should 3HKO first because I still use threat range solely as a tiebreak.
Hubert vs. Rinoa (Final Fantasy 8) - Another 2HKO that Hubie is powerless to prevent.
Hubert vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF) - 3HKOs first, can use magic counters and doesn't care about the accuracy debuffing.
Hubert vs. Parasect (Pokemon) - *Frozen* Lance, you say?  Well, too bad it doesn't OHKO even when hitting weakness, and under the averages I tend to use, Parasect 2HKOs Hubie with X-Scissor.  That said, it's Parasect, it's slow as dirt and runs so close to my floor for SDs that Hubie surely has a better-than-even chance to wake up in time.
Hubert vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3) - Hubie probably doubles with Miasma here which just to rub some salt into the wound, but really, not even he fears Peco's physical.
Hubert vs. Hix (Suikodens) - nvm, Banshee strats work after all.
Hubert vs. Subaki (FE Fates) - Mr. Perfect 4HKOs with an Iron Naginata and laughs off Hubie's attempts to gain counter supremacy, which is bad since Frozen Lance only 3HKOs and Hubie has to eat counters to do so.  And of course Mr. Perfect has pegasus knight privledges.  If only you weren't too afraid of heights to fufill your dream, Hubie!  (ok never mind the fact that peg knight went back to female locked in three houses shut up).

7-4.  I guess he's okay for Light but this pretty much shows why he is one.  At least he can actually avoid getting doubled by average?

Katarina vs. Lexis (Lufia 2) - Boy howdy does Lexis need to be able to use his status IPs turn 1 here.
Katarina vs. Lemina (Lunar 2) - Think so at any rate.
Katarina vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger) - Really now.
Katarina vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)- Doubles with Soaring Bolt and can survive a counter.
Katarina vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6) - Nope.
Katarina vs. Rinoa (Final Fantasy 8) - Finally, someone who can end this reign of terror.
Katarina vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF) - Nuh-uh.
Katarina vs. Parasect (Pokemon) - Grass typing to the rescue!  Katarina being on the slow side herself means I'm more willing to break this way.
Katarina vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3) - Peco.
Katarina vs. Hix (Suikodens) - Zap.
Katarina vs. Subaki (FE Fates) - Not this time, Mr. Perfect.

8-3.  Well this was a pool full of people who completely failed to exploit her weaknesses (including Lexis potentially!).  Near OHKO-damage in Light is certainly... thing-shaped.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 07:09:15 PM by Random Consonant »

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 03:39:37 PM »
I don't allow Primrose to use subclass weapons; a lot of these fights are headachey BP/durability checks.

Primrose vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)- Primrose really needs to get lucky with her own confuse and avoiding Lexis getting a lucky confuse proc of his own. I'm pretty sure she won't get enough time to perform a BP blitz otherwise.
Primrose vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)- Between confuse and a possible BP blitz, I think she has this. Open to arguments.
Primrose vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)- Kneejerk that Primrose's bad damage limits her BP blitzing ability too much; she needs a lot of turns in order to win this. Both this and the Lexis fights are giant headaches, I could go either way on those.
Primrose vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)- Massive damage advantage, even with Primrose doubling.   
Primrose vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)- Luke's a pretty average low middle/high light slugger, that should be enough here.
Primrose vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)- Should 3HKO first. Setzer's quite bad.
Primrose vs Riona (Final Fantasy 8)- Going for annoyance status is asking to explode to a limit and she needs too long in order to get a giant BP chain. Her own durability woes means that she can't just waste a turn of turns here. Ergo, Rinoa is too competent for Primrose. That may be the saddest line typed, ever.
Primrose vs.Labyrinthia (WAXF)- I think she can prevent Labby from getting two turns. Similiar to the Lemina fight, I could go either way on this.
Primrose vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3- Depends entirely on how good death claws are.
Primrose vs. Hix (Suikodens)- Dark resist is not Primrose's friend.


Yangus vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)- Not a lot of respect for Yangus ID. Lexis is using his physical here, hoping for a low odds paralyze proc. Yangus needs to land Grimmer Reaper before he runs out of HP or the status lands; going for straight damage is asking to get owned by a IP. Odds should favor Lexis.
Yangus vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)- Yangus needs one of his statuses to hit in two tries and to be faster in order to have a chance, and I'm not giving him both of those calls.
Yangus vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)- *looks up*.........Frog 5HKOs Yangus? Okay yeah, that's enough time for the ID to land. Get out, Frog.
Yangus vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)- ID isn't good enough here so he's left with damage that even Nergal makes fun of. That won't end well.
Yangus vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)- Luke: not great but at least capable of outracing Yangus. He resists Yangus's best damage to boot.
Yangus vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)- Damage or faster ID.
Yangus vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)- Depends entirely on if Yangus can ID in three turns; I think he can managed to tank three Rinoa physicals.
Yangus vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)- Wins the damage race.
Yangus vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)-Status resistance is not Yangus's friend.
Yangus vs. Hix (Suikodens)- Similiar to Yangus vs Rinoa; abstain at the moment.


Katarina vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)- Katarina should just miss the OHKO on Lexis (he is opting for the Circlet here) so splat she goes.
Katarina vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)- Wins for sure if she goes first and might well win even if she doesn't.
Katarina vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)- Abstain for now; depends entirely if Frog survives a single Katarina turn.
Katarina vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)- She can just tank a single shot from Nergal, which is enough.
Katarina vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)-I don't remember fonic defense mattering that much.
Katarina vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)- Setzer not happy about ignoring that defense here.
Katarina vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)- Rinoa survives one turn of whatever Katarina does and goes first. I would be very surprised if Katarina survived two turns from Rinoa; her physical durability is an embarrassment.
Katarina vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)- Nope.   
Katarina vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Katarina vs. Hix (Suikodens)- Damage advantage.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2020, 09:36:26 PM »
So I'm actually nicer on subclass weapons, so I'll see Primrose with about 30 more magic (About 10% more damage)
Also assuming Elemental Hat is an option, which is another 60 magic
Assuming maxing out for magic that she'd do 500 damage (and conversely, that the damage average to kill is 2750 under Elemental Hat increasing about half the casts's damage 20%)
So turn 2 damage is 2250? (500 x 3 x 1.5; 2 BP and 1.5 Magic Boost); They started with 1 BP
Turn 3 is 3000 (plus 750 the previous turn)

Primrose vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Primrose vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)- Even if doesn't 2HKO, the follow up 500 damage after Encore will do it
Primrose vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)- Turn 3 smash
Primrose vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)- Uh
Primrose vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)- Uh, Primrose is really close to killing with the follow up. I'd need to really hash out OT numbers more than I want to right now.
Primrose vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Primrose vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)- Uh, depends on who is faster to turn 3 I think. Would need to personally test OT speed more
Primrose vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)
Primrose vs. Parasect (Pokemon)- Status should work I think
Primrose vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)- Death Claws rate is so low that I didn't even bother. Shouldn't be relevant here.
Primrose vs. Hix (Suikodens)- Dark resistance

So Yangus' 50% ID to really 6%. Uh...
Also, hard to know where his damage really falls in some ways
Yangus vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Yangus vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Yangus vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)...Uh, at this point, I'm just going to pass on the rest of these since too much is in question for Yangus to me.
Yangus vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)
Yangus vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Yangus vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Yangus vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Yangus vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)
Yangus vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Yangus vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Yangus vs. Hix (Suikodens)

Katarina vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)- Yeah, he just avoids being OHKOed with Circlet to the average I use
Katarina vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Katarina vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)- Manages the OHKO
Katarina vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)
Katarina vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Katarina vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Katarina vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Katarina vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)
Katarina vs. Parasect (Pokemon)- So Parasect halves the damage and then the status should work
Katarina vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Katarina vs. Hix (Suikodens)- Faster, lives through a hit with the average I use (not with all averages though), 2HKOs

Primrose 6-2 (With more magic and that last bite at the apple, she's pretty nasty. Dropping the durabillity for damage isn't a bad concept for her if she's going for a nasty turn 2. Granted, I need to shift out some things on OT, so these votes are a little rough)
Katarina 6-5 (If you use a lower damage average than I do, that could flip Lexis and Hix)
Yangus 0-3 (Could just be really bad. Poor speed and damage with resources woes against healers)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 10:09:04 PM by Dhyerwolf »
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 12:32:26 PM »
Hubert vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Hubert vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Hubert vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Hubert vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Hubert vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Hubert vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Hubert vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Hubert vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Hubert vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Hubert vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Hubert vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Hubert vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

3/12

Primrose vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Primrose vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Primrose vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Primrose vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Primrose vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Primrose vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Primrose vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Primrose vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Primrose vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Primrose vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Primrose vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Primrose vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

3/12

Yangus vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Yangus vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Yangus vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Yangus vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Yangus vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Yangus vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Yangus vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Yangus vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)- Saved by Yangus' meaningful damage being fire!

Yangus vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Yangus vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Yangus vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Yangus vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

1/12

Katarina vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Katarina vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Katarina vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Katarina vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Katarina vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Katarina vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Katarina vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Katarina vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Katarina vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Katarina vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)- Looks like spamming healing actually lets him survive two L4s. 
Katarina vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Katarina vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

6/12
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 01:29:55 PM by Cmdr_King »
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2020, 09:15:18 PM »
Hubert vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Hubert vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Hubert vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Hubert vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Hubert vs. Luke
Hubert vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Hubert vs. Rinoa (Final Fantasy 8)
Hubert vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Hubert vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Hubert vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Hubert vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Hubert vs. Subaki (FE Fates)

Primrose vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Primrose vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Primrose vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Primrose vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Primrose vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Primrose vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Primrose vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Primrose vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Primrose vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Primrose vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Primrose vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Primrose vs. Subaki (FE Fates)
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2020, 09:19:24 PM »
I'm inclined to limit Hubert's usage of the Arrow of Indra a bit, similar to legendaries.  Maybe only one usage of Frozen Lance off it?  Not sure this ever really matters in the below matches, of course, since Arrow also tanks his attack speed.

Hubert vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Hubert vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Hubert vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Yeah, Hubert 3HKOs with Frozen Lance here which sets up a lot of problems for him.  Swordbreaker Arrow of Indra counters do help vs. doubled Leap Slashes so he could maybe hax something out, but probably not, especially since Frog Squash is a pretty scary finishing threat.
Hubert vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)
Yeah, I can buy Arrow of Indra outranging Nergal counters, although Hubert does struggle a bit to actually 3HKO.  Don't want to think too hard about Nergal HP scaling though.

Hubert vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Physical beatdown backed by good HP, Hubie's favorite.  Hubert can theoretically avoid being doubled if I'm feeling really generous but only by tanking his counterattack damage so no.
Hubert vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Yeah I'm pretty inclined to throw FF6 speed in the garbage these days barring real big deviations.
Hubert vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Hubert vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Hubert vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Yeah, Hubert should manage a 2RKO with doubled Miasmas at worst.  Parasect needs for Sleep to last enough turns to get the kill and eh.
Hubert vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Quasi-legal dark resist to add insult here.
Hubert vs. Subaki (FE Fates)
Hubert wants to be using his spells like a proper Warlock here, but that's getting him horribly doubled and also outranged.

Rest in a bit.

Primrose vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Primrose vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Primrose vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Primrose vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Primrose vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Primrose vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Primrose vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Primrose vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Primrose vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Primrose vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Primrose vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Primrose vs. Subaki (FE Fates)


Yangus vs. Lexis (Lufia 2)
Yangus vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Yangus vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger)
Yangus vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7)

Yangus vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss)
Yangus vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6)
Yangus vs. Riona (Final Fantasy 8)
Yangus vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF)

Yangus vs. Parasect (Pokemon)
Yangus vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3)
Yangus vs. Hix (Suikodens)
Yangus vs. Subaki (FE Fates)


Hubert: 4-6

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2020, 10:33:14 PM »
So with Hubert, one important thing to figure out is who has 5 move or less, since Banshee takes 5 off the target's move.

Melee endgame classes with 5 move or less: Hero, Swordmaster, Fortress Knight, Warrior
Melee endgame classes with 6 move: Assassin, Grappler, War Master
Melee endgame classes with 7-8 move: Cavalry and fliers

(The 6 move enemies aren't locked down by Banshee by default, although they can be locked down if Hubert hits S in Reason or if you spot him some credit for there being two range-boosting accessories for mages.)

With that list I'm probably not inclined to default Hubert to being able to spoil anyone melee, but I probably should be pretty open to any other criteria which can be used to let Banshee lock down opponents, since it is something that he can do sometimes in-game. In the case of Suikoden, there's an obvious tag we can use: S range, whose users are meaningfully less mobile than M range melee attackers (they can't attack from the back row). So pretty sure Hubert deserves to beat Hix. Luke... I don't remember TotA well enough to say.

Votes later.

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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 12:47:07 AM »
Fuck you Subaki for being a Falcon Knight and ruining The Hubert Propaganda Machine
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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2020, 01:34:09 AM »
I'd agree Hubert beats Hix if Silver Hats didn't exist?  But they do so I'm not sure how that actually works out since he only has the five uses of Banshee unless I've forgotten something about how the Exertion rune works (other than poorly).
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 07:23:49 AM by Random Consonant »

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 03:32:56 PM »
Five uses of Banshee halved is still 87.5 free damage, plus 50 more ice damage from Frozen Lance at the end. That kills average magic durability and Hix is below.

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 07:08:20 PM »
For some reason I had Banshee's damage swapped with Miasma, nvm.

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Re: Proving Grounds: The Darkness in the Light
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2020, 03:11:30 AM »
Hubert vs. Lexis (Lufia 2): Yeah Lexis is way out of Hubert's league.
Hubert vs. Lemina (Lunar 2): Even if Lemina 2HKOs, I think Hubert can kill first with Banshee, counter, Frozen Lance, since Lemina mdur is shaky.
Hubert vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger): If Hubert goes for 3HKO with Iron Lance Frozen Lance, Frog can alternate Leap Slash and Cure 2 until he kills. So Hubert needs to be countering with something. Miasma? Hubert attacks, frog attacks and triggers a counter, Hubert attacks, Frog can't attack so he heals, repeat... nope, no better. For Hubert to win he needs to 3HKO with something he can counter with, which doesn't seem to exist outside Arrow of Indra which is both hard to spam and gets him doubled. (Double Leap Slash almost kills by itself.)
Hubert vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7): Mire doubles and does 29x2, from outside counter range. gg.

Hubert vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss): Luke is above average movement speed probably, so we'll save the "auto-owned by Banshee" tag for Anise, I guess. And he is 2HKOing and going first.
Hubert vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6): Setzer is barely faster and 3HKOs, but it's ST so Hubert can counter Miasma, Miasma counter Miasma, Frozen Lance finisher.
Hubert vs. Rinoa (Final Fantasy 8): Rinoa 2HKOs and goes first (should make a threat range average, but I'll be stunned if 7 isn't below) so no need to math out anything else.
Hubert vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF): Go first, 2HKO.

Hubert vs. Parasect (Pokemon): uh. Hubert can't quite ORKO, so Parasect can Spore -> 3HKO with Slash. RBY sleep is really good.
Hubert vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3): Hubert doubles! ... only with Miasma, probably, but still. That lets him rip a large chunk off of breaths. He 3RKOs this way and overpowers any healing/regen, Peco ain't winning with damage before then. Peco might land Dream Breath, but that alone will take some luck and it's hard to see him winning with his mighty 6HKO (to Hubert!) physicals.
Hubert vs. Hix (Suikodens): Banshee.
Hubert vs. Subaki (FE Fates): Well Mr. Perfect is immune to magical counterattacks, while Frozen Lance triggers counters back. Still, Subaki damage sucks, only 4HKO even against Hubert. Subaki goes first so Hubert needs to win in 3 attacks which don't trigger counters, and seeing as Arrow of Indra gets him doubled that leaves Dark Spikes as his best and that's not enough.

Katarina has 0.79 HP, 0.60 pdur, 0.95 mdur, -0.57 speed, 3 shots of 66% and 1 shot of 99%! Plus some weaker damage which never comes up in this field (or many Katarina matches).

Katarina vs. Lexis (Lufia 2): OHKO? Yikes. Circlet isn't enough by the average I'm inclined to use, although I could be argued.
Katarina vs. Lemina (Lunar 2): OHKO, may not have to.
Katarina vs. Frog (Chrono Trigger): OHKO.
Katarina vs. Nergal (Fire Emblem 7): Doubles with a L3.

Katarina vs. Luke (Tales of the Abyss): Assuming no 1 mdef is 1 damage saved off an average attack, Luke... fractionally survives a L4, yeah. And he can scrounge some small lightning res anyway. Go first, 2HKO.
Katarina vs. Setzer (Final Fantasy 6): OHKOs but doesn't have to.
Katarina vs. Rinoa (Final Fantasy 8): A little bulkier than average, so yeah, 2HKO first again.
Katarina vs. Labyrinthia (WAXF): Lightning war! Except Katarina is just better.

Katarina vs. Parasect (Pokemon): Spore does its thing again. Saved by lightning resistance.
Katarina vs. Peco (Breath of Fire 3): Well Katarina is going first. And L3 + L4 kills through the healing.
Katarina vs. Hix (Suikodens): OHKO.
Katarina vs. Subaki (FE Fates): Well Katarina is slow enough to miss a double, but not slow enough to be doubled. Katarina 2HKOs him and he can't 2HKO her. (kinda sad)


Katarina 9-3 (don't think she's Light, even with the bad stats and lightning lock. Light as a division is below average mdur generally, which leads to bad times for them).
Hubert 6-6 (well, he's definitely interesting, and certainly competent in the division, but he probably does belong there)


Abstain on Primrose for now, need to figure out how I see Octopath damage. I do kneejerk towards his idea that magic damage is kinda underrated at the moment though. Yangus... eh, not too interested.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 05:25:51 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.