Author Topic: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"  (Read 1045 times)

superaielman

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Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« on: September 25, 2018, 12:14:11 PM »
As the title states, well. It's something fun to do.


Tellah- OHKO damage in Light but oof, that durablity/speed.
Sacred Slayer- The healing and Mdef is good! Less good is the offense.
Locke- Wishes FF6 physicals were better at endgame. Also hates his armor selection.
Lucca- Hates fire defense almost as much as she hates her physical defense.
Rico- Why not?


Tellah (FF4) vs Lucius (FE7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Menardi (GS)
Tellah (FF4) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Tellah (FF4) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Tellah (FF4) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Tellah (FF4) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Tellah (FF4) vs Rude (FF7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Tellah (FF4) vs Arietta (TotA)
Tellah (FF4) vs Boco (FFT)
Tellah (FF4) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Tellah (FF4) vs Zoah (CC)


Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Lucius (FE7)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Menardi (GS)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Rude (FF7)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Arietta (TotA)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Boco (FFT)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Zoah (CC)

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Menardi (GS)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Arietta (TotA)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC)

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Menardi (GS)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Arietta (TotA)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Menardi (GS)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Arietta (TotA)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 12:39:39 PM »
Tellah (FF4) vs Lucius (FE7)- Double, smash. Reflect owns Lucius horribly otherwise but... yeah I seriously doubt Tellah gets a turn.
Tellah (FF4) vs Menardi (GS)-Ice 3 horribly OHKOs Menardi but... she should get an instant double, Ice 3 has a notable charge time on Tellah and she's fast. She should manage a 2HKO thanks to Tellah of the half PC HP and bad defense though. Sigh.
Tellah (FF4) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)- Amazingly, go first and OHKO. Tellah is 17 kinds of bad against fighters. If he had a really quick status spell that would tip things I would vote the other way, but his status spells were slow due to his bad stats.
Tellah (FF4) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)- OHKO. Tellah does not have long matches.

Tellah (FF4) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)- OHKO. Don't think Laguna OHKOS back, his physical is pretty bad even by FF8 standards.
Tellah (FF4) vs Rude (FF7)- OHKO. Rude's durablity isn't any better than Tellah's; he is 2HKOed *in game* by Conformer Yuffie. His damage is also awful as well so no.
Tellah (FF4) vs Yam Koo (S1)- Should get two attacks before Tellah gets off anything useful. An instant cast would beat the double here but Tellah's instants aren't fatal here.

Tellah (FF4) vs Arietta (TotA)- OHKO.
Tellah (FF4) vs Boco (FFT)- OHKO. Boco's a little slow and might not even 2HKO Tellah. >_<
Tellah (FF4) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)- OHKOs with Virus and I don't think Pikachu can stop that.  E: N/M Pikachu damage better than I thought, he OHKOs Tellah with ease.
Tellah (FF4) vs Zoah (CC)- Full physical chain does the job.



Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7)- Mdef.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Menardi (GS)- Death Seize is earth elemental, which is really bad news for Lucca. Menardi even resists fire. Sigh.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)-I'm open to arguments on this one. My first reaction is that Lucca has a lot of problems dealing damage here; Ragnar durablity is good and he has fire resistance as well.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)- I think sleep's enough here? Tim durability is bad and it's not like he's fast either. He is running into Lucca's good defensive stat as well.  E: Sleep broken by any damage? Sigh.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)- Laguna's physical is kind of trashy, I don't think it'll 2HKO.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7)- For fuck's sakes Rude *ABSORBS* fire?! augh. That's probably enough.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Yam Koo (S1)- 2HKOs. Yam Koo's damage isn't good enough to pressure since Lucca can negate his speed somewhat with Sleep.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Arietta (TotA)- It's Arietta.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT)- I think? Boco's healing isn't great but Lucca has serious MP problems.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)- Wrong damage type, Pikachu.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC) Hitting the right defensive stat.

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Lucius (FE7)- SS has too much MDef and healing here. Any damage he does sticks.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Menardi (GS)- Look at SS's mighty 1/5th average damage. That gives Menardi plenty of time to make Death Seize work.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)- Sword of Lethargy does it's thing.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)- Runs SS out of MP/VP if need be.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)- Limit.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Rude (FF7)- Rude tends to be a free win if he doesn't spoil something in particular.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Yam Koo (S1)- Speed and crits overwhelm.

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Arietta (TotA)- SS offense is so bad that Arietta gets to use her limits. This is so pathetic.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Boco (FFT)- Healing.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)- Pikachu should have time to make the skillset work.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Zoah (CC)- Should be able to get off some smash combo by storing AP.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7)- Probably Locke's not very durable and the Valiant Knife ignores Lucius's really awful defense.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Menardi (GS)- Think so? Locke can go for Gaia Gear to stop Death Seize but that hits his speed and defense; Menardi can just use buffs to get around Valiant Knife strats.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)- Don't think Locke will be able to ID Ragnar before he gets two turns (Damage is not cutting it).
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)- Kneejerking the speed's enough.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)- Thinking Valiant Knife strats are enough.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Yam Koo (S1)- Kneejerk. Yam Koo needs to avoid getting a crit too early (makes valiant knife really hurt) and not too late (he be dead). Think Locke wins on average.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Arietta (TotA)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT)- Valiant Knife or Wing Edge, either should work.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)- Oof. Locke's not far from a OHKO and nothing Pikachu has helps with that.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC)- 2HKOs. Locke can't stop it short of a very lucky ID proc.


Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7)- Kneejerk Lucius doubling here, which is enough.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Menardi (GS)- Supernova does it's thing. Rico's Edef is such aggressive trash.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)- Durability advantage. Sword of Lethargy could be a problem too.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)- Tim is faster. JFC Rico.

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)- Can avoid a limit.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7)- Rude still bad.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Yam Koo (S1)- Defense carries the day.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Arietta (TotA)- Congratulations, Rico. You can beat up little girls.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT)- Attack buff, AP combo. Boco and his half average damage can do nothing about this.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)-  Rico needs to see his deathblows as unevadable, hit a weakness on Pikachu and not be doubled/paralyzed by Thunderbolt. Eh. I think Pikachu wins on the average of assumptions, but this might be my 'fuck off Rico you scrub' response kicking in.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC)- Zoah goes first, which should be enough.


Locke- 8-3. He's helped some by not allowing Ultima and the like any more but the problems with durability are still there.
Tellah- 5-6. What a waste of Godlike level skillset and offense.
Lucca- 5-6. Status spoiling is nice but she has too many problems.
Rico- 5-6. Fighter spoiler unlike most of the rest of the field. Hates magic with a passion and really hates healers who don't suck.
Sacred Slayer: 2-9. Get some offense.


5-0 Ragnar, Zoah- Both are good lights, so I'm not too surprised.  They each had matches I had to really think about in the pool and I flipped on matches for each of them (Lucca and Rico respectively).
4-1 Menardi- Against this level of 'competition', ID and blitzing strats start to work.
3-2 Lucius, Tim- Competent lights.
2-3 Yam Koo, Boco, Pikachu- Eh lights. This sounds right, all three have something good going for them (Speed, counters/free healing and offense) but have some problems to go with that.
1-4 Laguna, Rude, Arietta- Bad. Laguna is the best of this group by a mile; I had to think about his matches. Rude and Arietta both badly want you to allow earlier forms.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:07:42 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Pyro

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 03:58:58 AM »
Tellah (FF4) vs Lucius (FE7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Tellah (FF4) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Tellah (FF4) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Tellah (FF4) vs Rude (FF7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Tellah (FF4) vs Arietta (TotA)
Tellah (FF4) vs Boco (FFT)
Tellah (FF4) vs Pikachu (Gen 3): OHKO?
Tellah (FF4) vs Zoah (CC)


Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Lucius (FE7): Mdef?
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): Eventual crit?
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Tim's got options if he isn't being 1-2HKO'd!

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Laguna Loire (FF8): Limit.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Rude (FF7)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Arietta (TotA)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Boco (FFT)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Zoah (CC)

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): Speed differential aside, Ragnar's stats are better.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Arietta (TotA)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC)

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Is Tim faster?

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Arietta (TotA)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3): Magic tanking.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Tim being faster sucks for Rico no?

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Arietta (TotA)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC)

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 06:36:31 AM »
Tellah (FF4) vs Lucius (FE7) - Tellah stats are kind of amazing like that.
Tellah (FF4) vs Menardi (GS) - Yeah she probably does get that instant double and 2HKO, she's not too far from doing that to his raw HP and that bad defense surely pushes her over the top.
Tellah (FF4) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4) - Probably?  I don't really feel like sussing out Tellah's exact pdur.
Tellah (FF4) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - Not Tim's sort of fight, really.
Tellah (FF4) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Nope.
Tellah (FF4) vs Rude (FF7) - Assuming a higher level of +hp% from materia than I'm inclined to would probably hand this to Tellah though.  Rude's certainly eating a OHKO if he doesn't do the deed first.
Tellah (FF4) vs Yam Koo (S1) - Probably right.
Tellah (FF4) vs Boco (FFT) - Boco surely isn't 2HKOing Tellah and surely isn't getting that instant double even if he charges an -aga.
Tellah (FF4) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - Pikachu should have alright enough damage for this based on how I take him.
Tellah (FF4) vs Zoah (CC) - Surely.

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Lucius (FE7) - SS Mdef isn't -that- great, to be honest.  Sure, it reduces Lucius to a 5HKO, but she still has to trigger counters to hit his bad pdef (and even then she needs Fragile up to 3HKO), still has to deal with her bad accuracy (that Lucius's weak evasion makes even worse), still slower, and if Lucius crits on a counter, well, that's going to be terrible.  This is assuming she's not so slow as to be doubled either.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Menardi (GS) - 8HKO damage to average off of 55.4% accuracy off of bad speed is NOT how you beat Menardi
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4) - Dream Blade sure, it's not like SS doesn't have enough problems as is.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - Infinite resources vs. non-infinite.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Not thinking about this okay.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Rude (FF7) - This is probably right to me
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Yam Koo (S1) - Things Sacred Slayer does not like: fighters with a constant 3-2 turnsplit on her.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Boco (FFT) - More of that infinite healing nonsense, Sacred Slayer is really bad against that (and just really bad in general).
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - Double Team and Growl make Sacred Slayer's offense more of a travesty than it already is.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Zoah (CC) - Surely can't be so bad as to fail to enforce a heal lock

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7) - ITD certainly not helping out much here.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Menardi (GS) - This is rather depressingly close... but I think this is right with how frail I see Menardi unless Gaia Gear makes Locke's pdur more shit than I think it does (which would be impressive), can't really see how she takes this without a 4-3 turnsplit.  Likely won't need the Gaia Gear anyways as Tide points out, her means of 3HKOing (Death Seize, Supernova) probably push Valiant Knife into effectively 2HKOing her with my Menardi durability disrespect.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4) - Beat out the 2HKO with 20% ID?  Yeah I don't think so.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - I... don't think I see Locke with a constant 3-2 here.   So Tim will eventually be able to get enough turns that are used on Arcana 13 instead of First Aid.  If I'm wrong about the speed split this flips but eh, FF6 ATB.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Eh.  EH.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7) - Don't really have the energy to work out FF7 boss hp scaling but honestly yeah if Rude's physical does knock Valiant Knife's damage up to average then I think he does lose this and it looks like it does.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Yam Koo (S1) - Thinking he's probably faster and that's going to be enough on average.  Yam Koo isn't winning this without a crit but he's also not going to fall in two hits.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT) - Surely he can handle this much.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - This seems like it wants figuring out what midgame figures look like exactly and I'm not up for that right now.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC) - Locke pdur be bad, guys.

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7) - Yeah she can just gamble on Wondershot all day here.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Menardi (GS) - Yeah even if Menardi doesn't have a 3-2 on Lucca, the fire res means she's not 2HKO'd herself.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4) - Ragnar HP/fire resist knocking Lucca to a 5HKO is... not ideal for her, to say the least.  Gut reaction is trying for chaos doesn't help enough.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - Oh sleep does help enough ok.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Surely.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7) - Yeah I don't have that much faith in the Wondershot.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Yam Koo (S1) - Surely.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT) - Boco HP is pretty trash and Choco Cure restores less than half of that.  Even with 48 faith offsetting the bad HP some, that's still not enough to run Lucca out of MP in time.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - Surely.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC) - Not thinking about this too hard.

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7) - Nope.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Menardi (GS) - Rico... barely misses the 2HKO to me and is eating either 5 or 6 Supernovas as a result.  Yeah that's not working out.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4) - nvm sleep sucks lol.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - Arcana 13 should do its job here I think.  Tim being faster doesn't help Rico's case any.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Not really respecting Laguna anything enough for this.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7) - Or Rude anything for that matter.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Yam Koo (S1) - Probably.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT) - Gives Rico all the time in the world to store AP for some combo.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - Hell Splash being Earth is not what Pikachu wants to deal with since I don't see him with OHKO damage or anything.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC) - Eh probably.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 03:19:27 PM by Random Consonant »

Tide

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 03:39:50 PM »
Just voting on those matches that Super purposely bugged me with. He has no soul:

Tellah (FF4) vs Lucius (FE7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Menardi (GS)
Tellah (FF4) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Tellah (FF4) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)
Tellah (FF4) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Tellah (FF4) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Tellah (FF4) vs Rude (FF7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Yam Koo (S1)
Tellah (FF4) vs Arietta (TotA)
Tellah (FF4) vs Boco (FFT)
Tellah (FF4) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Tellah (FF4) vs Zoah (CC)


Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Lucius (FE7) - Yeah, SS's MDEF isn't THAT amazing, for all that it's solid. The bigger problem is the accuracy. I know Super doesn't believe me, but Lucius has *some* evade and SS's hit rate is really garbage. This, combined with her amazing damage, means that she has real issues actually even hitting Lucius and every attack triggers a counter. Lucius is also lucky enough he uses Light here, which has innate crit, so in a match that is this long, a few of them will proc. God help SS if Lucius chain crits or if she gets crit on a counter.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Menardi (GS) - Dies to Death Seize. I can't believe I am actually typing this.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - SS has real issues trying to make any damage stick on Tim. Worse yet, Tim's resources are infinite.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - So SS spends like 20 turns hitting Laggy and healing off the damage done. Then he hard rams into DESPERADO and Laggy MachineGunHelicoptorGrenades his way into victory thereafter. The PRESIDENT RIDES AGAIN.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF) - Oh boy, someone giving Emma a turn and can't 2HKO. Horrible horrible stuff happens.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Rude (FF7) - Rude needs like 2 crit punches or something to do anything relevant. And even though this fight takes a while, I don't buy that happening fast enough for him. Failure.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Arietta (TotA) - Kneejerk is Arietta outslugs this before she dies because SS' offense is so bad.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Boco (FFT) - This is basically SS vs. Tim, take 2. Also, Boco definitely wins on Movement and can basically out-kite here cleanly to boot.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - Uh...this might be a fight where DOUBLE TEAM is relevant, given how bad SS's base accuracy is. And when you let Double team become relevant, you're chances of winning are really in the toilet.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Zoah (CC) - Heal locks at worse is my kneejerk. Probably runs SS out of MP/VP and then wins.

1-9. Sacred Slayer? More like Scared Slayer amirite? SS proves that having really bad offense is always a guarantee way of getting owned. Especially in a division like Light.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7) - Counters eat Locke's face in here. And nothing in his weapon arsenal helps much.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Menardi (GS) - Menardi's buffs aren't *good* enough to avoid Valiant Knife thwacks. The real question I think is what Random posited - if Locke changing to Gaia Gear to stop Death Seize makes him too fragile. A better question is, does he really want it? Menardi's got some HP so sure, I guess he will equip it for safety, but if you really see Death Seize as garbage, he shouldn't have to make that armor change. Still, this is depressing. Locke probably 3HKOs, although I think Menardi wins on speed so he has to be 4HKO'd to have a chance. I'm kneejerking he does because Menardi offense is garbo.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - WHAT is this. I think Random's right. I don't buy Locke getting a constant 3-2, given FF6's messy ATB and First Aid having initiative. So Tim eventually gets a free turn to block Wing Edge's ID and controls from there. If Locke has the Valiant Knife, Arcana 13 ruins him. Good job, Locke in joining Menardi in the ranks of "Loses to Tim"
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Pretty sure; Laguna isn't scaring Locke with anything before Desperado and Locke has roughly 4 chances to land the ID. He should get it. Even after Desperado, Laguna is at a big HP disadvantage and Locke can probably finish him.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF) - Goes first and 2HKOs. Reset is a no-go here either since that actually *helps* Locke secure Wing Edge's ID
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7) - Think this a durability respect check. Locke goes first and gets 2 hits in. If you think Rude is fragile enough to be 2HKO'd off a weak hit + a strong hit, Locke wins. If you see Rude as 3HKO'd here, he sends Locke packing. Given the level of dumb that exists in FF7 - I'm not so sure I see Rude as being able to take this. Gelinka form is definitely 2HKO'd and Rocket Town form might not even 2HKO.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Arietta (TotA)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT) - Wing Edge should seal the deal here - I'd see it avoiding counters and it makes Choco Cure irrelevant.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - Yeah, Locke 2HKOs here. Pika can't really do much to avoid this.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC) - Gets 2HKO'd before anything meaningful. Zoah has the HP to soak a Valiant Knife hit or two.

6-3. I haven't voted on Arietta yet, but I doubt it changes much. Locke's basically a variant of Ramza except worse since he literally has no skillset whereas Ramza at least has one, even if not impressive. Wins fights completely dependent on his changing weapon/armor selection but it's not a good breadth, so he's stuck in Light.

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Menardi (GS)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Arietta (TotA)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7) - Lucius goes after Rico's bad MDEF. AND he counters. Ooh boy.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Menardi (GS) - Yeah, Menardi goes Supernova and then finishes with Death Seize pokes. Even if he 2HKOs, Menardi is probably constant doubling here, so she just kills him before anything else happens. Get out, Rico.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2) - Tim is faster and basically gets to use his big skillset. Arcana 13 hits by Turn 3 so Rico's pretty screwed.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8) - Lol, Rico does 4-5 jabs to the face or something then blows up Laguna.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF) - What the Christ? Rico barely manages to win the speed race in a match of the titans (78.4% average vs. ~71%) and that's pretty much it. 2HKO's from there and Emma can't do much other than get stuck in a Reset loop.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7) - Did Rude have anything respectable from Magic? I guess Gogonga form has FIRE 2 but I forget if he willingly casts that. Probably doesn't matter.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Arietta (TotA) - *checks* 25000 HP TotA Abyss HP isn't exactly good. Probably because she fights with support all the time. Anyway, Tales casting times/movement speed here versus Rico speed. Both appear to 2HKO each other so this is a straight up speed check it feels like.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT) - Super claimed Boco gets 2HKO'd. I did not believe him, so I checked the raw numbers - turns out he was right ;_;. But wait, it gets better though for those of you that allowing Kiting! On turn speed, Boco has like a 9-7 on Rico, which means that he will Double turn at some point, but it doesn't happen fast enough. He should still out-kite Rico though (nothing about Rico suggests he should have more than 4 FFT Move). So combined with his speed advantage, Boco can perform Hit-and-run maneuvers. This looks like Boco MAY win, but Rico just changes tactics and instead builds to a 28 AP combo (probably not even because Boco's HP is garbage) and smokes the bird if he approaches thereafter. Even when factoring in all the counters, Rico has solid HP (like the 1 stat he is actually good at) so Boco won't be anywhere near killing before 7 turns. This is so sad.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3) - oh Hell Splash was Earth Elemental. That might be a OHKO here.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC) - They are similar but Zoah is generally better. So kneejerk is that Zoah takes that slight advantage up and wins.

6-4. Tfw Rico goes 6-4 in a pool. SUUUUUUUUUUUUPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!
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superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 02:26:08 AM »

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4) - Does Ragnar have a durability edge here?  Rico pdur is actually pretty good and he can block sleep.  Granted that may not be enough anyways.


Sword of Lethargy ignores all status resistance for some insane reason; it works on Psaro and Metal Kings.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 02:43:35 AM »
Huh.  Is that true of the DS version as well?  (For all that I doubt it matters here now that I bother to math it out.)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 02:49:00 AM by Random Consonant »

SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 06:25:56 AM »
Tellah: Bah, not worrying about FF4 damage averages and nonsense.

Sacred Slayer: See Tide minus a few votes.  Beats Rude but probably nobody else, so 1-9 or something.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)
I was all set to vote for Locke, but Tim has low % ID?  I guess so then.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Sets up Valiant Knife too well I guess.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7)
Valiant Knife.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Yam Koo (S1)
Ah yes Yam Koo, the guy required for one boss fight.  I think Dhyer's damage is figuring in the crits on average, so Yam Koo's damage is really really sad.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Arietta (TotA)
High Arietta respect.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC)

Locke: 5-5


Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)
Tim heals ~.40 PCHP every round, Lucca deals according to the new damage average about .50 PCHP exactly.  She has enough in the tank for 4 Flares.  Does .80 PCHP kill?  Yeah, unless you see Tim getting a 4:3.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Yam Koo (S1)
Yam Koo's damage is way too bad to take advantage of Lucca durability.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Arietta (TotA)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC)

Lucca: 6-4

super, I know I disagreed with you on this before, but Lucca is still a Low Middle, just a spoilable one.  Totally Heavies who have one really good trick that fold like a house of cards when their favorite status is blocked or their element immuned.  Lucca's good status blocking like never came up in this pool as an example.


Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2)

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8)
Charge up a huge turn, yeah.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Yam Koo (S1)
Suikoscrubs bad.

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Arietta (TotA)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC)

Rico: 5-5

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 12:18:07 PM »
Disagree pretty strongly; Lucca's got too many problems with fighters and fire defense is depressingly common.  Healers give the entire CT cast fits as well and she is no exception.

Re Tim: Tim can full heal once he gets some FP stored up. That does seem like a problem for Lucca.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 03:59:06 PM »
Lucca is faster than Tim, though, and she 2HKOs through First Aid because Tim HP is a disaster. This gets even worse if CT sleep makes you take more damage (don't know if that's the case).
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 09:04:00 PM »
I can test whether Sleep effects damage later, but Lucca definitely does not 2HKO through First Aid if there's no boost. Tim base HP + First Aid = 5624 HP (where 4965 is average) if HP is considered. Lucca's still about 600 WA 2 points of damage off (not counting the marginal effect of Tim's Mdef, but that does still put her further off as well).
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2018, 10:14:49 PM »
She doesn't need to 2HKO anyway, all she needs is (Flare - First Aid) * 3 + Flare to be bigger than Tim's HP, barring crazy doubles shenanigans one way or the other.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2018, 10:43:23 PM »
Tim has full healing after 1 Flare though.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 02:50:30 AM »
I did confirm that Sleep does slightly boost damage (~19% for Flare; Provoke also increases damage, but the increase is about half as much). That would be enough to 2HKO Tim, but only if both Flares were boosted by Sleep (otherwise she'll come up short). Sleep is relatively worthless to me (poor enemy susceptibility), but for everyone else, Lucca still needs 2 70% shots to hit in succession.
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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2018, 03:36:54 AM »
Poison, Slow, and Stop also increase damage done to their victims in CT.  Sometime I'll get around to loading of Flames of Eternity to further test this.

Tellah vs Boco:  Boom, Boco's Mustadio level damage isn't going to kill fast enough.

Locke vs Menardi:  Icebrand whacks
Locke vs Laguna: I don't respect Locke damage very much but ID fishing with the Wing Edge bypasses the Limit range.
Locke vs Boco: Wing Edge ID laughs at unlimited healing.  Alternatively, Sniper procs if Boco is considered flying.

Lucca vs Boco:  I see 48 Faith as enough to blunt Lucca's damage to keep up with Choco Cure until she runs out of MP.  Boco has above average raw speed while Lucca is tied for lowest in her cast.  Equipment does close the gap but still.  Sleep could muck things up though.

Rico vs Laguna: Combo.  Either that or attack buff and direct 2HKO.
Rico vs Rude: Outslugs.  Grand Spark is magic but I don't think it's enough even with a no HP plus average.
Rico vs Boco: Builds up a fatal Combo.  Eats a few extra pecks but Mustadio class damage again.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Tide: "dude, wtf is wrong with you"
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2018, 11:39:20 PM »
Tellah's HP sits about midway between Porom's and Rosa's geometrically - the Zot HP average undersells him because it includes all the bulkiest characters in the game at once. He's 66% of Rosa's HP, which puts him at 61% overall; I'll use that. Still assuming FF4 uses linear+20 for speed since nobody has ever in 20 years being able to explain to me how it actually works, which puts Tellah at around 80% there. Damage is a bit past OHKO to average.

Tellah (FF4) vs Lucius (FE7): Tellah just avoids being doubled to me, I think. Reflect then 2HKO.
Tellah (FF4) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): Faster, 2HKOs? Yeah I don't respect the status much either but I have no idea where this OHKO hype is coming from, even taking the Zot HP average literally; Ragnar is below average for goodness' sake.
Tellah (FF4) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Presumably.

Tellah (FF4) vs Laguna Loire (FF8): lol
Tellah (FF4) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF): lol
Tellah (FF4) vs Rude (FF7)
Tellah (FF4) vs Yam Koo (S1)

Tellah (FF4) vs Arietta (TotA)
Tellah (FF4) vs Boco (FFT)
Tellah (FF4) vs Pikachu (Gen 3)
Tellah (FF4) vs Zoah (CC)

Most of these honestly aren't close. Tellah's... not a Light as far as I'm concerned.


SS is 82% speed, 12HKO damage (Fragile improves it for two attacks, not really worth it considering the MP cost), can heal 27 times, 97/154 for durability.

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Lucius (FE7): SS is in that same speed range as Tellah, so again should avoid a double to me. Lucius 4HKOs with some light crit, that's... probably enough with counters since SS needs to land like 7 attacks.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): Sleep weapon miight do it eventually? I dunno, DQ sleep used by slow people is really bad, good chance it does nothing at all, he only has a 10% chance to make SS lose a turn and if SS just healed, that's not good enough anyway (at that point it's 5%). But... damn he has a lot of time to make this work. Yeah, sure.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Tim builds FP and becomes pretty fearsome.

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Laguna Loire (FF8): We be seeing limits here.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF): Emma's pretty scary if you don't put her away fast. Guess what SS never does ever.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Rude (FF7): This is really "how much do you respect Rude's speed", FF7 enemy speed is a headache and all. He 2HKOs here so if he doubleturns he wins, but if he never does... blah, SS probably still runs out of MP healing all the damn time. You could take Rude's damage lower, but I really doubt I see PCHP as over 4700 by Rude's final form.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Yam Koo (S1): Yep.

Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Arietta (TotA): Oh finally, a mage. Arietta never has better than a 3HKO, and is squishy enough that SS's resources hold up.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Boco (FFT): Gross. But the infinite resources prevail.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Pikachu (Gen 3): Like Emma, Pikachu must be killed quickly or he will fuck you up.
Sacred Slayer (XF) vs Zoah (CC): Zoah's huge Str gives him really easy heal-locks.

Sacred Slayer seems kinda terrible. With that damage she almost needs to fight mages to not run out of MP.


Locke has about 26% damage but rises to just over double as his HP drops to 1, 68/80 durability, 116% speed. 128% if he goes for his turn 5 instant death weapon.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Lucius (FE7): Lucius 2HKOs with Divine. Even if Locke doubles weighed-down Lucius, it doesn't matter since ITD is not what you want to be against him as a fighter.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): 2HKOs and has the bulk to withstand Valiant Knife hits in the meantime, even if he takes two boosted ones.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Wing Edge doesn't quite win an instant death race, Valiant Knife does allow for a heal-lock due to a 3-2 + low 3HKO though. That's gotta outrace First Aid.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Laguna Loire (FF8): Weirdly similar limit fighters in some ways. Going with Locke due to speed.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF): Arc-en-ciel.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Rude (FF7): Rude has a high 2HKO here, and I doubt Locke has a 3-2.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Yam Koo (S1): Faster so should win the slugfest.

Locke Cole (FF6) vs Arietta (TotA): Arietta is bad.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Boco (FFT): Pretty sure Locke goes Wing Edge here to avoid counters. He still probably 4HKOS anyway? Boco stalling for Choco Cure doesn't help since instant death. Boco probably 4HKOs back, but slower obviously.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Pikachu (Gen 3): Think so.
Locke Cole (FF6) vs Zoah (CC): Zoah's definitely M/L borderline and tends to win these sorts of slugfests with little difficulty. Actually it's possible he even one-rounds? Doesn't have to.


Lucca's got a borderline 2HKO, 87% speed, 68/127 durability (but can get crazy mdur if she needs).

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Lucius (FE7): Taban Helm setup means Lucius needs way, way too much time, while Lucca still 4HKOs.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): Lucca's best bet is sleep/protect so that she's only 3HKOed, then kill with 4 Flares. Wait, fire res, 5. That's probably too much, Lucca needs too many dicerolls with sleep to go her way.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Sleep is devastating to slow opponents like Tim.

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Laguna Loire (FF8): Sleep -> Protect -> 2HKO.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF): Vigil Hat plus being generally better.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Rude (FF7): I mean Rude probably didn't need fire absorbing here but yeaaaah.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Yam Koo (S1): Kneejerk Yam Koo but... he may just miss all the thresholds he needs? Just misses a 3HKO, just misses a 3-2, just gets 2HKOed. Okay never mind.

Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Arietta (TotA): Lucca vs pure mage.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Boco (FFT): I really doubt 48 faith is enough here, Lucca still powers past Choco Cure pretty easily and Boco's HP is wretched. They're also almost identical in speed unless you compare Boco to PCs with no equipment.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Pikachu (Gen 3): Gen 3 Pikachu pretty reliant on magic to get things done, and Lucca immunes paralysis.
Lucca Ashtear (CT) vs Zoah (CC): Pretty sure Zoah is faster, which settles any argument.


Rico is 74% speed, average damage, 178/95 durability (huh, better than I'd have guessed), has some trashy buffs.

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Lucius (FE7): Okay finally someone Lucius doubles. Get wrecked.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Ragnar McRyan (DQ4): Both like 5HKO each other? Rico is faster? Again Sword of Lethargy is turn 10 to actually deprive a turn from someone, let's not hype that against non-healers please. Only thing that might tilt this for me is Swordedge Armour or whatever it's called... might well by Ragnar a 4HKO. Sure.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Tim Rhymeless (WA2): Tim is marginally faster and Arcana 13 probably lands in two tries against Rico MDef.

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Laguna Loire (FF8): I guess he can backload damage some at worst.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Emma Hetfield (ACF): Speed is almost tied, but even if Rico goes first he can't OHKO and even if his blockers are good enough, Great Booster + heal + either magic damage or try to sneak some status through.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Rude (FF7): Probably. Rico likely 3HKOs to me while Rude needs at least 4. 4-3 is possible I guess, but since Rude also needs a damage call here, I'll go with Rico.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Yam Koo (S1): Yam Koo has a 6HKO but he has a 6-4, so he just needs to dodge Rico once. Do I respect Rico's accuracy? Hahaha good one guys.

Rico Banderas (XG) vs Arietta (TotA): Arietta is certainly faster and hits Rico's bad mdur but... yeah he still 2HKOs her and the full-HP shot just doesn't hurt.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Boco (FFT): Overpowers Choco Cure at base, Boco does get counters and so forth but Rico pdur too strong.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Pikachu (Gen 3): Earth elemental? Yeah sure.
Rico Banderas (XG) vs Zoah (CC): Rico is probably bulkier, but Zoah has both speed and damage.

Tellah 11-0
Lucca 8-3
Rico 6-5
Locke 5-6
Sacred Slayer 1-10

Rico's pdur made him a bit better than I expected, but still Light. Otherwise Tellah/Lucca M (Lucca lower), Locke L, Sacred Slayer low-L sounds right.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:14:34 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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