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Author Topic: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)  (Read 254371 times)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #575 on: February 26, 2011, 10:32:28 PM »
Radiant Historia- 32 nodes gotten (just about where a 5th PC joins at the time). The game is nicely organic considering it's general structure which is good. Doesn't really pack a great bunch yet, but enjoyable.
...into the nightfall.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #576 on: February 27, 2011, 01:34:17 AM »
Fallout 3: So apparently the neighborhood I work in is destined to be overrun by firebreathing ants in the distant future. Hard to be 100% sure since the Fallout 3 Metro map matches up with the real one only as far as it's convenient to do so (real one has several more lines and vastly more stops, but hardly asking for more Metro tunnels in-game because oh god it's so boring walking through those) but a bit west of Falls Church station sounds right.

Anyway, I finished this. Lack of postage regarding the game between original "I'm playing this now" post and this one should say a good deal about my opinion of the game, but still, let's break down the myriad problems here. In fairness, I do really enjoy running around a huge, open world map just to see what's out there, and I was pretty damn thorough finding exactly what's out there because I'm obsessive and that's just my style. But once I had no choice but to actually do plot stuff, interested plummeted and I ignored the game for a couple weeks. Because the actual plot? Pretty much impossible to care about on any level.

I'm not really capable of not comparing this to New Vegas, which is probably unfair since New Vegas is fucking awesome and used the same mechanics but had the benefit of experience and the chance to make some refinements, but it really does highlight what's wrong with Fallout 3. The Capital Wasteland never really feels like a coherent setting. Most of the various towns and groups around the wasteland don't seem to have any tangible connections to the others, there's no real sense of conflict around you (except for slavers being dicks to people, I guess, but who are they selling all these slaves to, anyway? No locale you visit seems widely engaged in this particular economy), and more than any other time in the series you feel like you're wandering through an unrelated series of places and events. Sure, Three Dog's radio program will mention stuff that happens in various places, but largely just as a result of your actions. New Vegas, on the other hand, you know who the factions are and get suggestions of what they're about early on, even if it might be some time before you actually meet them. It makes a world of difference for making the player feel involved in a living, functioning alternate reality.

Reusing the Enclave and FEV is really the biggest misstep in Fallout 3's setup. They recycled the antagonists from the second game in the series with almost the same plan as they had in the second game in the series. There's no possible way it could have the same impact as they did in their previous appearance, especially since they are in a way kind of massive joke (sure, they have decent tech and a scary plan in FO2, but you guys still act like you run the world when you're all hiding out on a shitty little oil rig? Really?) Bringing them back as an ostensible threat ignores that and the fact that honestly they don't do much here (okay, sure, they kill your dad, but that's just Liam Neason phoning it in and letting his majestic voice do the work for him as usual. I was more upset about the deathclaws and your BoS buddy getting gunned down in FO2). You do get the eyebots roaming around spouting propaganda, but that's not the same as having an enemy force that's obviously trying to accomplish things (though in fairness, props to Malcolm McDowell here, he does nail a politician's vocal mannerisms). They're too placid and reactive to be taken seriously--they can't get any part of their plan accomplished without you, which I know could be said about plenty of other RPG villains, but in this case they apparently can't even hack a goddamn computer--and they just don't work as a source of tension.

This and the general blandness of your apparent goals (purifying the basin? I guess that's...a good thing. Are you also purifying the river that feeds it, though? Well, are you? Because I'd think that's kind of important) mean that my level of caring about the plot is nil. Which is possibly a good thing since I would've been more annoyed about the ending if I actually felt invested in things in any way. Spoiler tags for that, I guess. So I guess the writers really, really wanted to hammer you into a Heroic Sacrifice scenario. Nice job setting that up in advance guys oh wait you didn't do that at all you just manufactured a menace at the literal last minute and bullied the player into taking it. Bad form. "It's your destiny to get melted by radiation even though I'm immune to it and could totally save you." Thanks a LOT, Fawkes. Fallout games aren't principally plot-driven enterprises, I know--it's often at least as much about the world it happens in. But lack of the typical ending rolecall to show the consequences of your actions in various locations only serves to reinforce that we don't care about any of these places.

Mechanically, well, in most regards it's not that different from New Vegas, and I do still think it's fundamentally a pretty elegant fusion of traditional Fallout mechanics with shooter gameplay. Except for being stupidly easy, which is pretty glaring. I guess I could've notched it up to Hard mode, but eh, I feel like that shouldn't be necessary for a balanced game. Weapon degradation of course is stupider here. Didn't max your repair skill? Sorry, you don't get weapons in top condition. Doesn't matter a ton because see stupidly easy difficulty, but still annoying.

Dungeons, though? So tedious. As much as I like strolling about the overworld looking for things, actually exploring those things once found can be abject drudgery at times. The game's interior spaces are often just so dreary and monotonous. I don't remember this being a problem in New Vegas despite that game reusing the same wallpapers, largely because they generally had the sense to keep things brief there (there are exceptions to that, of course, but those generally benefited from atmosphere much more than any FO3 dungeon can boast). Fallout 3 locations just ramble on and on. Statesman Hotel I think was the most glaring offender. Jesus that must have been, what, two hours of crawling through the same ruined hallways fighting the same enemies? This is how not to design a dungeon.

Vaults, for example? Really disappointingly dull. There's a lot of potential for freakiness with these, but what we get is generally just "Yeah, it's a ruined place where people used to live but they're all dead now." You do get a few logs in some of the Fallout 3 vaults, but they largely just serve to make the same basic point of "Yeah, Vault-Tec is the most pointlessly dickish fictional corporation this side of Umbrella." The bit where you hallucinate the Vault 101 overseer for a split second got a jump out of me (since I beat the dude to death with a baseball bat), but that's about the only part of them that showed any character. New Vegas had a good variety of atmospheres with its vaults even if they all used the same basic design (34 was ridiculously tense with its constant radiation and ghoul attacks, another had ohshit ninja plant monsters...two were openly used as showcases for human malice, but in drastically different ways).

So I don't have too much positive to say about it in the end. I didn't hate it, because hey exploration and punching people's heads off, there is some fun to be had there or I wouldn't have scoured the map, which is worth something like an average rating. It's just so fundamentally broken on a storytelling level that nothing about the events that transpire within it are compelling. They inserted all the big-name Fallout presences and indicators they could think of because apparently the game just wouldn't feel Fallout enough if they didn't copy everything they possibly could, but they do it without either the flair or style otherwise exhibited in the series. Meh.

Random other stuff:

-Too many super mutants.
-Also super mutants are apparently cannibals now. Um...okay, why?
-Why was the G.E.C.K. in Vault 87? What possible use could it conceivably serve there? This isn't a vault that was meant to open up and repopulate the world. The only purpose of the site was to turn people into monsters. How does a G.E.C.K. tie into that research in any way? Presumably the developers just wanted it to be hard to find.
-A subterranean town of children holding back a horde of super mutants. I disbelieve.
-I hate that sickly green color that dominates the game's palette. New Vegas's bleached desert yellow is so much nicer to look at.
-Too many fucking super mutants.
-Did the Enclave even call itself the Enclave in Fallout 2? I didn't think they did. I thought they just referred to themselves as the government of the fucking United States of America, because that's what they thought they were. Enclave I thought was just a way for the game to refer to them or where they lived, a word the definition of which fits what they are physically and also highlights what a bunch of delusional megalomaniacs they are. Hearing them constantly self-reference as "The Enclave" only makes them seem that much sillier and nonthreatening for apparently not realizing either of those details.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 01:42:44 AM by El Cideon »

Niu

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #577 on: February 27, 2011, 01:36:47 AM »
Then I went and played around with the Wolrd system and collected some things I skipped in the first go around. I picked up Ozma and just got the Lord class. I got th first Diego scene all taken care of, but I still can't seem to trigger any other part of that event. I collected all the orbs I need for Deneb as well. The hire option is available in her shops, but I don't have any glass pumpkins.

Each steps of Diego's recruitment occurs only in specific time frames. You might want to check my post in the previous page. He is really easy to miss.

Tonfa

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #578 on: February 27, 2011, 02:42:45 AM »
Baal (Justin 22): Oh joy a duel. Actually dangerous because Justin has 140 HP and Howlnado hits for 70. Boom-Pow at 60 and Zap! at 50 are not fun either given the Grandia turn system. His physicals get nulled half the time after Diggin' stacks which is the small blessing that actually lets me get an offensive game going. He also has Shhh! (blocked, thankfully) and Healer to heal 200 (less than a Justin combo). I defend when I see a spell coming, heal as necessary and get lucky with him never deciding to doubleact Howlnado.

I buy a fourth Talisman. So basically I run around blocking all status unless something comes up where I need another accessory. I no doubt will be missing status fun times boss specials can cause because of this so for those who want that kind of encyclopedic knowledge go make a stat topic. >_>

Guido leaves nooo.

Level 25
137HP 80SP
0/0/0 MP
88STR 48VIT 118WIT 90AGI
Dagger L19 Sword L10 Throw L31

Better than Sue as long as he has a ranged weapon I suppose. With a melee weapon? hahahahahahaha

Hydra (Justin 22, Feena 20, Rapp 23) (1 reset): Oh hell. So this is a recolored Serpent, my favorite boss. 4.5k on the main body, heads range from 1.7k to 3k. I decide to go after the heads for multiple reasons.  Hydra's main body can Head Crash one PC for 70, Crackling for 50 MT damage and cast Vanish, which dispels all stat changes on everyone in the field. Hot Head is the same as ever, doing its 30 MT damage. Toxic(?) Head uses Poison Gas which does absolutely nothing to my party. Nice Head's Recover Gas heals...400 to all. Argh. Last, Pearl Head replaces Mean Head. Can't be that bad with status blockers, Mean Head was a scrub on damage. Pearl Head's attack is...Sudden Death. Which does exactly what it says. Talismans don't catch it.

What the fuck, Grandia?!

Okay once I get over the fact that there is a five part boss where one of the parts dishes out OHKOs on literally every turn it gets I gear up for the second attempt. I can't really go for ID block accessories over Talismans because negating POIZN is just too valuable in terms of turn economy, even more so with the strategy I'm using. I have two Revival Stones (auto-revival on death) and give them to Justin and Feena. I decide to game the turn system here by abusing a certain part of it - once a part of a multipart enemy reaches the "act" part of the ATB bar all other parts stop so you can't have nonstop spam. The idea is to knock back Pearl Head behind the other parts every time it is closing in on a turn. (And yes, I tried canceling the move entirely with Critical - it just doesn't work on the hydra). I open the battle by busting out the Slouch Weeds I've had for a while to itemcast Cold - dropping Pearl Head to -4 speed. I also use Smarna to itemcast Def-Loss for a quick -1 defense mod to all hydra parts. First to fall has to be Nice Head because I simply don't have the resources to deal with that kind of healing indefinitely. This takes some rather intense rounds as I have to juggle doing the big damage, not letting Nice Head get turns, not letting Pearl Head get turns, turn denying the hydra in general with MT, and dealing with Crackling + Hot Gas spam. Luckily Nice Head has only 1700 HP and thus falls fast. Bad news: Pearl Head has 2900 HP and Hydra wises up and casts Vanish to get rid of the debuffs. Sigh. Toxic Head is a real blessing here as its turns delay the others and do absolutely nothing. Pearl Head bites Rapp (sigh) and I have to waste valuable time to resurrect him. I do manage to kill it before it gets anyone else. (It might have gotten a second turn and wasted it on a Revival Stone PC? I don't recall perfectly) Rest is fairly simple though I have to use consumables to keep my MP high. Kill Hot Head, finish off Toxic Head.

Great Susano-o (Justin 22, Feena 21, Rapp 24): Recolored Ruin Guard. 4500/2500 HP. Honestly a joke after that last battle, not worth doing a real writeup for. Main body has Howlnado for 70 damage and the other parts just suck. Has Vanish to make buffing of questionable worth though. This will become a theme.

Phantom Dragon (Justin 23, Feena 21, Rapp 24): Recolored Madragon. 3800 HPs, 2 parts 1 body. Has Vanish. Loves spamming Crackling with both parts, had a hell of a time trying to keep up, used remaining revival stones and a ton of consumables. Maybe it has some kind of MP score because it stopped using it after I weathered the initial assault...it becomes a joke afterwards. Claw attack for 30ish to a small area, Fire Breath still never hits anyone.

Liete get. Having 3 PCs was getting just a bit painful.

BAAL, LORD OF TENTACLES (Justin 23, Feena 21, Rapp 24, Liete 30): PC HP is in the 120(Liete is frail)-150 range. Baal has 6000 HP, Gaia Tentacle has 7000. Killing either one ends the battle. All their attacks are physical but...Baal has Vanish. And a physical for 50, and Gaia Power to heal himself for 400. Tentacle has Gaia Strike for 70-90 + binding effect (like paralysis status without actually being a status effect, apparently). Worse, it has Gaia Fang, which does 80 damage to a large area around Baal and causes -2 to the defense of those hit. It can also heal itself for 700 with Hoist Heel. So uh okay. Lots of healing needed to keep up, yet I need to keep a steady offense to overwhelm the boss healing. Liete's Zap! proves quite wonderful here as it does ~250 damage to both very quickly and cheaply. Justin and Rapp use various physical techs, everyone but Liete uses Burnflare. I go through a ridiculous amount of SP/MP restoring items in my frantic race to keep up as well. I try to evade out of the way of Gaia Fang when I can - when I can't, I Diggin' once to have some parts of the party at 1 Defense mod and some at -1 - Baal will eventually waste a turn to cast Vanish in this situation. I have to res Liete once during the battle and cast a Resurrection spell with her on Rapp too, with a ton of other close calls. One thing that proves advantageous is that Baal and Tentacle are terrible at coordinating their attacks. Baal spends plenty of time moving around the battlefield because the tentacle wants to attack a different target than he does. Once they have been whittled down to 2000ish HP Baal starts spamming Gaia Power like crazy while the tentacle attacks - I decide to focus on a singletarget assault on the tentacle at this point. Victory.

Gaia Battler 3 (Justin 25, Feena 23, Rapp 25, Liete 30): 4500/2500 HP. A joke at this point, though it does have Vanish (oh for fuck's sake). Lightning does 60-70 damage, POIZN Gas has been replaced with Rust Gas which causes -2 Defense to an area, the arms are still bad...a breather after the previous fights. Edit: Okay it could have been good if Right? Arm had used Rayspread more than once. It was ~35 MT damage.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 02:44:35 AM by Tonfa »
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Grefter

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #579 on: February 27, 2011, 05:02:27 AM »
Quote
I'm not really capable of not comparing this to New Vegas, which is probably unfair since New Vegas is fucking awesome and used the same mechanics but had the benefit of experience and the chance to make some refinements, but it really does highlight what's wrong with Fallout 3.

I fail to see why it is anything close to unfair.  Bethesda isn't exactly an inexperienced upstart, they were formed in 1986 and pretty much have been making RPGs since then.  They don't have hands on experience with the setting, but Obsidian isn't exactly working with Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Chris Taylor either, they have a lot of experience with the series, but the difference between Fallout and Bethesda's other works are fairly obvious and they didn't do much at all to take that on board.  They are made with the exact same technologies and one is head and shoulders above the other as a Fallout game. 
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #580 on: February 27, 2011, 05:09:01 AM »
Soul Calibur IV - Just got this recently since it was uber cheap, and the series has always been a popular mainstay for my friends and I.  So far, haven't had more than a few hours to pop into it, but it's been enjoyable.  Fortunately, most of the changes seem to be either positive, neutral, or ignorable.

Positive - I think the big thing I like that was added is the new soul crush system.  Basically, it's like shield breaking in Smash Bros, except with two notable differences.  If the person is on the ball, they get the option to pull off an instant kill move.  On the other hand, it's not easy to pull off.  My brother and I, in our little bit of sparring, have only come close to seeing it once.  And just as defending too much makes it happen, attacking pushes you away from it.  Finally, the story mode has a new system which allows for team battles, along with a switch button.  Given how good team battles were in SC2, I'm really hoping there's a way to get team battles rolling in this game, because that would be grand.

Neutral - Still not sure what I think of the clothing damage system.  Maybe if it didn't seem quite so random.  That said, it doesn't offend me, and I have to admit, there is something neat about the idea of actually having your character reflect the fact that it was a tough battle when you barely win a set.  Yoda also goes here, since he has that whole ignoring high attacks and throws thing going on.  On the other hand, I'm not sure he has low attacks, and almost all of his attacks and all of his throws seem to involve him first jumping into the high hit box area (huh, never mind.  While typing this my brother used a low attack with Yoda, so they do exist).  Also, he seems to have more lag in getting his moves off, or finishing them.  Ah well, time will tell.

Ignorable - The new character creation system.  This is part ignorable, part bad.  Then again, I really liked the NPC fighting styles in 3, and am sad to see that they're gone.  I mean, the sword and shield had the best freaking move in the game with the whole tackle them and then pound them senseless move.  Aside from that, the rest is pretty ignorable, seeing as it's mostly just moving weapon selection to main character customization (in addition to playing dressup, if you're so inclined.  Aside from recreating the She-Link outfit, or having Taki dress sensibly, I think this will be ignored).  As for character creation, the various clothing pieces now have stat bonuses that actually matter in combat, along with some inane skill system that involves setting skills using points granted by your outfit.  Dressing like a Salvation Army reject for stat boosts, no longer just for MMO characters!  Fortunately, VS still believes in having a mode where all of those stats and skills are ignored, so the whole thing gets labled ignorable instead of Bad.

The Cast: Is generally the same.  Even the minor changes don't seem to create any huge differences, though the little I've played around with Cassandra suggests that she might be back on my team.  The major change I have discovered so far is that Maxi feels better, though this could just be the fact that he's been changed enough that I'm not very sure what I'm doing with him any more.  Maxi has always been the odd character where the less I understand what I'm really doing with him, the better the results.

All in all, feels like it'll be a worthwhile purchase.

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #581 on: February 27, 2011, 05:15:16 AM »
And if you want to shell out more cash, you can download Darth Vader too!!!

NOTE: Do not.  Vader is just garbage and unfun to play as.  He's a slow mighty glacier without anything that can really redeem it fighting style wise.  Oh, sure, having Force Grip as a move in a fighting game is cool, but that doesn't justify it.


Frankly, to be honest, I felt the Star Wars thing was a total waste for bonus characters in SC4.  So much COULD have been done, but Yoda and Vader feel poorly done, and Apprentice (aka he who was shoved in to just make Force Unleashed Sell More) is both hard to give a shit about, and stupidly handled.  This could have been more forgivable if every character got access to a Light-Saberesque weapon, so you can make more fun custom characters, but alas, they missed THAT one.  I can understand maybe going "It'd be silly for Mitsurugi, a samurai from hundreds of years ago, to use a high tech Sci-Fi weapon!", but seeing as you can easily work that away by saying "its a blade made of magical energy!" just to get an excuse for Light-saberesque aesthetic, that excuse doesn't really fly with me.

Ok, really, I'm more annoyed about the above cause it means I can't make an appropriate Fou-lu without a Light-saber looking weapon to go with him...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:17:09 AM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #582 on: February 27, 2011, 05:26:55 AM »
I assume you mean not letting custom chars fight like Yoda.  Not actually what I mean.  What I meant was that in SC 3, you had a bunch of weapons that were similar, but not quite, the fighting styles of each of the main characters.  So you had a katana style that wasn't Mitsurugi's Samurai style, you had a sword and shield style that wasn't Greek.  That kind of thing.  And those seemingly being gone is something I will mourn.  Though not too much.

Suppose at some point I'll have to see if they had as much fun with the lightsabers as they did with Link's weaponry in SC2, though I'm not sure how they could.  Hell, I'm not even sure what they'll do for joke weapons there.


As for Fallout New Vegas.  Cid has done a fair good job of getting at my reactions on the Vaults in Bethesda's works.  In Fallout 3, the whole thing felt dickish for the point of being dickish.  Ok, granted, I suppose you could get some decent psych info out of them, but what kind of moron ok's doing highly lethal psychological testing on the last remnants of the human race, or at least the parts of it you're expecting to support your government in exile.  The three I've been to so far in New Vegas, I can generally get behind the reasons why they perished (Vault 3 especially.  After seeing that one log entry on the engineer's computer, I was, well, thorough and eagre, about slagging the current occupants with a plasma rifle), and the radioactive vault was nicely tense.

Still need to finish New Vegas, but having confronted Benny, I feel like I'm at the point where the endgame is being set up, which is nice because I'm eagrely looking forward to seeing how the second battle of the Dam is going to play out, and how New Vegas itself is going to factor into it.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #583 on: February 27, 2011, 06:23:08 AM »
Quote
I assume you mean not letting custom chars fight like Yoda.  Not actually what I mean.  What I meant was that in SC 3, you had a bunch of weapons that were similar, but not quite, the fighting styles of each of the main characters.  So you had a katana style that wasn't Mitsurugi's Samurai style, you had a sword and shield style that wasn't Greek.  That kind of thing.  And those seemingly being gone is something I will mourn.  Though not too much.

Actually, my comment about the Lightsabers was more a tangent from the Star Wars comment and had little to do with your statement in terms of Generic Fighting styles.

And I was more just saying that for all the unique looking weapons characters can use, none of them get a Light-sabery weapons but the Star Wars characters...who can't be used to make customs out of.  Its a silly complaint, of course, and one I don't really hold against the game, but I can still pine over it damn it!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 06:24:58 AM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Excal

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #584 on: February 27, 2011, 06:30:15 AM »
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.  The ability to give Lyndis a lightsaber would be awesome.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #585 on: February 27, 2011, 06:49:39 AM »
I felt the need to emphasize how amazing New Vegas is and how much testimony I get that it's so much better than FO3 as far as the series goes.

I almost want to replay it. Man.
<Eph> When Laggy was there to fuel my desire to open crates, my life was happy.  Now I'm stuck playing a shitty moba and playing Anime RPGs.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #586 on: February 27, 2011, 06:57:55 AM »
Dead Money just came out, there is your excuse.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #587 on: February 27, 2011, 02:55:36 PM »
As for Fallout New Vegas.  Cid has done a fair good job of getting at my reactions on the Vaults in Bethesda's works.  In Fallout 3, the whole thing felt dickish for the point of being dickish.  Ok, granted, I suppose you could get some decent psych info out of them, but what kind of moron ok's doing highly lethal psychological testing on the last remnants of the human race, or at least the parts of it you're expecting to support your government in exile.  The three I've been to so far in New Vegas, I can generally get behind the reasons why they perished (Vault 3 especially.  After seeing that one log entry on the engineer's computer, I was, well, thorough and eagre, about slagging the current occupants with a plasma rifle), and the radioactive vault was nicely tense.

I think one of the best things New Vegas did with this is show us a Vault that actually worked. Two if you count Vault 3, as I don't think getting overrun by raiders is really something you can factor in in advance.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #588 on: February 27, 2011, 03:21:43 PM »
Worked? You mean one that was normal and wasn't undergoing some weird experiment even Weyland-Yutani and umbrella would look down upon.

Fallout NV - Plat gotten.

MVC3 - After getting some advice from people and looking at some sites I can now do some nice combos. Currently learning the corner combos as they are easier but looking at everything I might just replace one of my rushdown characters with a keep away because remembering all these imputs is hard enough but remembering those dozen or so combos for both my rushdown characters ain't happening.

I'm think of just learning one middle and one corner combo and just spam them. Not fancy I know but I've not got the greatest memory so it'll do.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #589 on: February 27, 2011, 03:46:33 PM »
"Worked" in the sense that the residents didn't kill each other. It's Vault-Tec, you have to adjust your standards a little.

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #590 on: February 27, 2011, 04:57:42 PM »
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.  The ability to give Lyndis a lightsaber would be awesome.

Well, its mostly that when I make characters, I try my best to capture their appearance as close as possible, weapons included.  In Terra's case, I wanted a Light Saber for the Atma Weapon appeal, but alas, none such was there; had to settle for the Flame Sword (she's Sophitia's style.)  I can't make an appropriate Fou-lu cause of the total lack of them and that's all he uses.  There were a few others as well.

Though, lucky for me, one of Cervantes weapons sort of resembles Agni/Rudra from DMC3, so Dante could use that and I could thus give Sparda a Nightmare Style, so I don't have two clones!  I was also lucky that Seung-Mina had a Halberd allowing me to make an appropriate Hrist...

Sadly, no true fist fighters (Voldo totally doesn't count), so I can't make, say, Gene from God Hand :(
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #591 on: February 27, 2011, 05:44:38 PM »
Tactics Ogre:PSP

Ten fights on the first floor of whatever it's called now...Palace of the Dead? Two Glass Pumpkins so far.

>_>

Gonna get this out of the way now so I NEVER have to do this again!
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #592 on: February 27, 2011, 11:49:02 PM »
Thank you, Final Fantasy 13, for the touching story of the flying, teleporting, telepathic, fetch-quest giving stone statues in an empty stone tower who fight a randomly aggressive Fal'Cie who hangs out there.  As Vanille said, "we each fight evil in our own way."  Perhaps you can don costumes and fight...  crime, next?

Also it's nice that our alleged good-guys think that it's A-OK to, with no provocation, attack a NASCAR race and probably murder a bunch of drivers via crashes / actively carjacking them and tossing them into the road, while causing a panic in the stands that probably lead to more people getting trampled and dying.  Just.  What.

Okay these are both pretty out-of-the-blue and can't spoil anything since they are plot tumors grafted on that don't mean anything, but further rants on the real plot will require microtext, spoiler warning, etc.


Chapter 10
Okay, first, this level is way too repetitive and long.  I compare this to Halo 1's Library - they flagrantly copy & pasted the same area 5 times and filled it with hordes of enemies.  But more to the point, you're not really advancing the plot in an interesting way here.  This is a giant training hall to fight crap in and grow stronger.  Wouldn't it be more interesting to be forced to fight crap and grow stronger while trying to avoid death, or achieve an objective?  Bah.

Next, rando-Cid for a boss fight and MOTIVE REVEAL!  That is impossibly lame.  I realize it's hard to do "sympathetic antagonist whom you must fight!" but this was just stupid, especially after your party offers to do nothing and says they don't really want to destroy Cocoon, but let's fight anyway.  Saying that all those close escapes before were because the Cocoon fal'Cie and so on were helping is...  interesting, and fits with Bart's reveal at the end of Chap 9->10, but also denies the desperate efforts of the protagonists somewhat.  Meh.  I'm also a little confused on how Cocoon l'Cie work - are their focuses more clear?  Does Dysley just tell Cocoon l'Cie what their focus is?  Because the whole game, it seems like the Focus is more a threat - you aren't actually mind controlled, you'll just turn into a monster if you don't take steps to finish your Focus.  But Cid apparently knew exactly what he was supposed to do, and gets mind-controlled again in Chapter 12, so huh.  Also, if Cid came here of his own free will, how'd he even know where to look?  Only Dysley would have known where the Pulse l'Cie escaped to.

Fine, Cid was lame and at best should have been saved for Chap 12, but then we get to hack through a bunch more, eventually collect Bahamut, though I dunno how convinced Fang is of saving Cocoon yet.  Then.  Rando-portal to Pulse in front of us!  I... guess this was arranged by Dysley as well?  I have no idea what for, if so, as you don't get anything on Pulse that particularly convinces you Ragnarok is awesome.  Moreover, while I'm not averse to going to Pulse, this feels more like putting the protagonists on rails again - not the graphical kind, but the plot kind, which is weird for our "Defier of Fate."  Couldn't Our Heroes have just found a new ship and decided to head for Pulse of their volition to try and get rid of their brands?  This would make the boss fight of Chap 11 make moderately more sense, as it'd be "get back to work you lazy bums."

Chapter 11

So.  Cieth Stones.  Kind of an odd choice for a way to do sidequests when there's a large current of "screw the fal'Cie" in the game's arcs.  Just because a mighty magic being ensorcelled you to do a task doesn't mean that task is right, so picking up MORE of these tasks?  Sigh.  While I'm also nitpicking, I'm still not clear on what was so shameful that Vanille had to lie to Fang about.  Considering Fang's plan was "raise hell and see if our memories come back from messing with Cocoon" if the goal was to save Cocoon, Vanille didn't do a very good job.  I'm fine if Vanille was just confused / scared and panicked, of course, but I'm still feeling left hanging here as if there's going to be more explanation as to what the heck happened in the past.

That said.  Pulse does something interesting, which I'm not sure I agree was the best narrative direction, but certainly has its own potential.  This being the whole NOBODY IS HOME thing.  The party members express some frustration at not finding anything at the very beginning of Chapter 11, but...  but...  nothing like the full-scale panic I'd expect from Vanille and Fang.  Now.  I wouldn't overly object to a Super Metroidish-take on the situation where you explore ruins yourself and come to your own conclusions with no need to talk about the obvious.  Except, this is FF13, a game where everybody wears their thoughts on their sleeves and say things like "I realize I've been deceiving myself the whole time!"  Plus, you DO get to see some of Vanille and Fang talking, and they only really do it about becoming Ragnarok centuries ago - and then leave unsaid any further useful information.  But they don't appear to be particularly on-edge otherwise. 

This...  is...  crazy! 

First off, the Ark was described as being "like Pulse."  And the Ark looked like a subway station in a lot of places - so trains, giant guard robots, high-tech labs, etc.  Fine.  Except the Pulse we find is a vast naturely landscape filled with monsters.  Some more explanation of "here's what Pulse is like, guys!" would be appreciated.  If, for the player, they decided that such an explanation would be boring and they should show not tell...  fine, in most cases...  except one like this where there's a major mystery afoot.  Is finding no humans, let alone human settlements nearby, expected?  Or did Pulse have giant National Park zones where it wouldn't be shocking for this to happen?  Even if so, wouldn't the fact that the parts of Pulse we travel to that were blatantly manipulated by humans - like the mining stuff in the caverns - is also abandoned?  If you're going to have a post human extinction world, milk it!  This is Vanille & Fang's time to do plot stuff.

Temejin's Tower was an abomination.  Really, this kind of fetch-questy dungeon is fine normally...  except...  when you are introducing an ENTIRELY NEW WORLD.  And what we learn about Pulse are its telepathic statues of goodness whose power has been sealed by monsters who chill out in a bizarre tower that seems to have no purpose at all.  I'd have been happier if this was ye old generic "ancient temple with artifact, go raid it to find ultimate power" you see in every RPG that needs an excuse for dungeons with sealed passages and monsters and such.  And, again, Fang and Vanille don't bother explaining what the hell at all.  What was this tower FOR?  Why do we have to climb a tower to reach a town?!  Yeah, RPG logic, but seriously guys, you can do better.  Here, I'll show you.  "This is impossible!  There has got to be some people around somewhere.  Or evidence of where the Gran Pulsians left to, and what calamity struck.  Let's go look at this communications tower.  There'll be SOME record there of what happened."  Then run around finding keys and turning on power as per usual to explain the fetch quests, reach the bottom, and...  hell.  The party doesn't even have to find anything aside from a nasty monster lair.  Just emptiness and no records and no piles of bones and a giant freakin' mystery.

Okay.  Oerba.  ++++ on the music here.  And...  you can investigate things and get more details!  Why was this not in the game otherwise?!  It makes me WANT to explore everywhere!  In fact, they didn't need to make there inexplicably be only one route through town here.  Since there's a sidequest here anyway, remove the blockages and let me explore on my own.  I very much approve of the mood at least here, even if we don't see Vanille and Fang talk at all, except about Vanille's pet robot.  I mean...  this is a major sanity check here.  Your hometown is infested by monsters and the people are GONE, not even dead in their beds.  Let's see some reaction!  If not right away, perhaps at the end.  Which I'm still not entirely sure why we're going onto this bridge to nowhere, but we do, and... 

...wtf.  Barthandalus shows up again, on Pulse?!  Why is he here?  Narratively, I mean.  Oerba is where Vanille's plot is supposed to get some advancement, not having the main plotline show up.  It'd be like visiting Fran's village in FF12 with Fran being completely silent and then having Gabranth (Basch's foil) show up.  Just bizarre storytelling here.  More blather about "I'm fighting you and dressing up as Serah so do as I say!"  Right.  Not exactly the master manipulator here.

Also, I'm a little confused, though I think FF13 is too.  So.  Barthandalus's version of events: Serah's Focus was to gather a band of new l'Cie to destroy the world with (which she totally didn't do intentionally, but uh sure).  Everyone else's focus is to destroy Orphan and thus Cocoon.  However, Vanille talked to Serah, and Serah had the same dream as everyone else.  Snow apparently knew this too, and had already figured out that Barthandalus must have been wrong - they all had the same dream.  Cool.  Except...  the record at the end of Oerba seems to indicate that the Pulse Fal'Cie really DO want to destroy Orphan and Cocoon.  Fine.  But then why did Serah turn to crystal if she too was supposed to bring about Ragnarock?  She certainly hadn't succeeded yet.  Not willing to call it a plot hole yet, though I'd like to have seen a more coherent end-of-Chap 11 conversation for what our protagonists think - too many unreliable sources here (especially Bart), so there may be weird assumptions yet undone. 

Also.  Pep talk about making a stand and history recording them.  Fine, though you're a little vague on the details of what exactly the plan is here...

Chapter 12.

More Cid plot.  Where is this revive-> mind-control stuff coming from?  This doesn't gel with Fang & Vanille's experiences, so I guess we chalk it up to Cocoon l'Cie bein different again?  The mind control apparently doesn't even work in the one scene we see Cid-2 in.  And is dispensed with quickly anyway.  This is once more a pointless plot graft that means nothing. 

Okay, see above about the "charge in summons blazing vs. NASCAR" thing.  What.  I thought the scene in Palompalum where Snow was shooting a machine gun into the air going "I'm a Pulse L'Cie who will kill you all!" in an attempt to herd the civilians away from Psi-Com - and thus save their lives - was pretty awesome.  It'd be one thing, maybe, if Our Heroes attacked a military base outright, but a civilian event?  What could they POSSIBLY hope to gain here?  Stay in your darn ship and land it as close to Orphan as you can.  If you get made by the military, then land somewhere far away from civilians for having your big battle.  I'm willing to overlook a lot since RPGs require a lot of fighting so fine, no way to negotiate, you must kill 100 soldiers to advance, but this is just a blatant attack on civilians Luca Blight style.  What.

Now.  We are expected to believe that the Cavalry are a serious threat to Orphan.  This better be a stupid lie from Bart meant to incite the party who foolishly fell for it.  If all it took was a military team to destroy Orphan, then Bart could have gotten rid of it ages ago.  Remember Chapter 1!  This is a society that cheerfully purged an entire city at the government's orders.  Just tell the army / Psi-Core to plant a big bomb at this strange entity that's been infected by Pulse (warp in a handy Pulse monster you have lying around if necessary).  If this would work, then Bart could have been rid of Orphan whenever he wanted.  I actually buy the idea that it requires Pulse l'Cie or Pulse fal'Cie to blow up something like Orphan as far as making Bart's plot make sense, but it looks like they're throwing that away.  Also.  It's not a big deal, but I'd be interested as to how exactly Bart is inciting the Cavalry to attack Orphan.  Maybe I'll find out shortly, but while I can see "have Cid provide intentionally bad leadership to provoke a civil war," directing said war against Orphan seems tricky.

Furthermore.  While the party was strangely blase about it, it did gain one very important bit of information on Pulse.  That is, EVERYONE (seems to be) DEAD.  Therefore there can't BE any Pulse invasion because there's no humans left on Pulse!  You know the truth!  Information is power!  TELL EVERYBODY about this!  It might be hard but this seems like an actual way to tone down Pulse-invasion paranoia, if people knew that a Pulse invasion was impossible.  I'd much rather have my quest be "get to the television station and broadcast The Truth to everyone" then this mess that plays directly into Bart's plans.  (Even if the Cavalry really can blow up Orphan, we only know that they might do this thanks to Bart, which should give everyone pause.)

Roche: "But you are l'Cie.  Humanity will decide its own destiny!"  WHAT.  Roche was a Psi-Com villain.  Since when is he "on our side" and "wants the same thing?!"  The game has been willing to use villain-cam before to show us things the party couldn't possibly know.  Therefore, if you want to evolve your villains, then *show it*.  Last I checked Psi-Com hates us because Pulse is eeevil and we've been mind-controlled to raise hell on Cocoon (which...  isn't far from the truth, maybe, given the archive we found at the end of Chapter 11?  At the end of a random broken bridge by semi-accident?).  Also, Psi-Com  thinks Cocoon l'Cie are awesome (see Dajh).  Siiiiiiiiiiigh.

Also.  There's the narrative trick of having tons of Pulse monsters hanging around, ready to be unleashed at all.  Fine, I guess this fits into Bart's plot, sort of, but we just got done fighting tons of mindless Pulse beasties.  Wouldn't it be more interesting if we just returned to a straight civil war between humans while we tried to navigate the sides and explain the truth?  It'd be a chance to talk with humans again, which hasn't happened in ages aside from Roche.


On the bright side.  The Archlyte Steppe would totally be a great overworld theme, if FF13 had an overworld.  Dust to Dust is also fantastic in context.  The FF13 soundtrack still has the problem that about a third of the tracks are variations on the main FF13 theme, including these two, but whatever.

Conclusion: FF13 Chapter 10-12 flies off the rails as badly as some DLers think Xenosaga 3: Disc 2 does.  So far at least, not done with Chap 12.  If they had done the most generic plot resolutions possible after Chapter 9 it'd be better than this.

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #593 on: February 27, 2011, 11:59:51 PM »
Nah, FF13's plot screw ups aren't as bad as XS3 Disc 2, but only cause FF13 is not downright offensive about it.  More generic bad train wrecking where its like "Do the writers have any clue where they are going with this?  I mean...seriously?"  rather than "hey, lets spit on a major religion by turning one of their icons into a robot with BREAST CANNONS!"  I can overlook the former, and merely say "its bad".

It doesn't help that FF13's story was never really all that great to begin with, so by then, my expectations weren't high anyway; the plot was mostly there for visuals and some potentially interesting character work (which...granted, later chapters weren't very good at anyway, but the previous stuff had hope for it!)   XS3...Disc 1 had some actually good stuff and ends on a "STAY TUNED FOR DISC 2!" note so you really are excited.  I mean, they introduce a bunch of factors that you're curious about, Virgil's exit is a damn good scene, introduces us to Mizrahi finally and we can see him for what he really is, rather than what we were TOLD he was, and it ends with basically KOS MOS being her usual "All style, no substance" self in a nice flashy way (which is what she was good at.)  Thing is...Disc 2 basically spits on all of that, and just turns into offensive stuff that even if you are someone who can overlook bad plot for gameplay, its hard to do so here.

Also, I agree about Archelyte's Steppe's music, and the fact that it IS a variation of the game's main theme just further emphasizes that it could have been an over-world theme (just about every other FF game did it...ok, FF8 didn't, using some generic elevator music that is utterly forgettable but lets not get into that.  Actually, it really stands out in Dissidia's Destiny Odysseys as all the other games you're hearing their main themes during the maps...then in DO8, you hear Blue Fields and...yeah...)
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
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[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Tonfa

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #594 on: February 28, 2011, 12:43:22 AM »
Final Fantasy 13 is Game of All The Years

My favorite completely pointless plot tumor you forgot is Rosch gets gunned down and dies in chapter 7 on camera. He presumably gets Bart-revived because uhhhh....

Also I can't wait for what you think of the finale. I'm still not even sure what the hell happened.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #595 on: February 28, 2011, 12:51:05 AM »
Nah, FF13's plot screw ups aren't as bad as XS3 Disc 2, but only cause FF13 is not downright offensive about it.  More generic bad train wrecking where its like "Do the writers have any clue where they are going with this?  I mean...seriously?"  rather than "hey, lets spit on a major religion by turning one of their icons into a robot with BREAST CANNONS!"  I can overlook the former, and merely say "its bad".

Also, I have to add that XS3 has -the exact same issue of trainwrecking it out while not knowing what the fuck it should do with its characters while still being hugely offensive-, even moreso as a writing experience than a disrespectful spite towards the religions it draws its mythos from. I don't think people emphasize enough the fact that Xenosaga 3 has shit, shit writing, in an even more egregious level of pretentious dishonesty than TotA had, even if you completely remove any sort of religious/mythological retardation from it.
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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #596 on: February 28, 2011, 12:56:22 AM »
Cid, apparently all those slaves get sold to Pittsburgh and Toronto's governments. You go to The Pitt in DLC2.

Also the green filter? Shitty. Install the Fellout mod to fix it.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #597 on: February 28, 2011, 02:03:10 AM »
Radiant Historia - So, backtracking could stand to be made a bit friendlier and non-Stocke PCs could stand to be a bit better plotwise (or in Aht's case, shut up forever you stupid loligoat), but otherwise, 20 hours in and the game's great.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 02:08:05 AM by Random Consonant »

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #598 on: February 28, 2011, 02:16:09 AM »
FF13- Chapter 2. SHUT. UP. HOPE.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #599 on: February 28, 2011, 04:27:59 AM »
Wait, super hadn't played FF13 yet?

Also, Snowfire's point-by-point summary of the FF13 plotholes is a rather fun read. If you clean it up a bit and expand it to something less casual, it could totally be a main-site article?