FFT
So...I enjoy going back and looking at vanilla FFT's class imbalance and theorizing about it. Everyone knows it's imbalanced, but there's never a total agreement on how it's imbalanced. I'm going to use a new approach here; namely, I'm going to ban the most centralizing class in the metagame, evaluate the new metagame, and then ban whatever class has become the new most centralizing class.
First, let's loosely split the game into four sections:
Earlygame (about 200 JP to play with; Chapter 1)
Midgame (about 600 JP to play with; early-mid Chapter 2)
Lategame (about 1800 JP to play with; early-mid Chapter 3)
Endgame (abbout 5400 JP to play with; End of Chapter 4 for store unlocks; maybe a little poaching; maybe some brave-faith modifying)
The JP numbers are sort-of ballparks (lots of things to account for, like job levels, overshooting JP targets, initial starting JP in classes). I have a
wiki analysis of this kind of stuff somehwere, but I'm mostly going to fudge this a lot.
______________________________________
So anyway, in Vanilla, the balance is something like...
Earlygame: Wizard (Bolt), Chemist (Potion Phoenix Down), Knight (stats, Weapon Guard), Time Mage (haste), Squire (Move+1, GJPU)
Midgame: Summon Magic
Lategame: Math Skill
Endgame: Math Skill
Well, Calculator completely dominates both Lategame and Endgame, so they seem like they should be the first to go.
Ban list
1. Calculator
______________________________________
Right, so let's evaluate the fresh, post-ban metagame.
Earlygame: Wizard (Bolt), Chemist (Potion Phoenix Down), Knight (stats, Weapon Guard), Time Mage (haste), Squire (Move+1, GJPU)
Midgame: Summon Magic
Lategame: Summon Magic
Endgame: Summon Magic, Draw Out, Time Magic
Yeah, it's clear here what's centralizing; why go for Draw Out or Time Magic when Summon is arguably going to be better even in the late game?
Ban list
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
______________________________________
FFT post-banning #2
Earlygame: Wizard (Bolt), Chemist (Potion Phoenix Down), Knight (stats, Weapon Guard), Time Mage (haste), Squire (Move+1, GJPU)
Midgame: Chemist (Auto-Potion, and kinda guns), Time Mage (Teleport--although it's a stretch to fit into the 600 JP slot), Wizard (Magic Attack Up, stats), Priest (Holy), Lancer (Chapter 2 Lancer equips), and a lot of the earlygame stuff.
Lategame: Time Mage (Meteor, Short Charge--a slight stretch JP-wise for this category, but job levels help), Ninja (stats). (And a few other pretty good tier 2 options, like Lancer and Dancer and Monk), and several midgame options get better because they can be combined (why not get Teleport and Auto-Potion and Magic Attack Up?)
Endgame: Samurai (All of the sudden gets Kikuichimoji, Kiyomori, Muramasa, and spare JP to spend on things like Teleport and MAU). Time Mage (Quick is a ridiculous spell with faith modification. Full party MP switch shenanigans are doable. Short Charge Meteor is still really good. Everyone wants Teleport). And behind these but still noteworthy...Lancer (Jump gains some ludicrous equips from poaches etc) Oracle (all of the sudden they're Batman--they always have a plan). Most other strategies don't keep up so well. However, RSM stuff like Wizard (stats, MAU) and Chemist (Auto-Potion) are still really important.
OK, let me go over the ones that I don't feel are too centralizing and do this by process of elimination.
Chemist: Phoenix Down, on its own, is a top-5 skillset. But among well-optimized setups other stuff does get used. Auto-Potion is fantastic, but it has competition (like racing to a power-setup instead of making youself awesome in the midgame) and by the endgame it starts to have competition anyway (MP Switch shenanigans, Samurai probably just grab Blade Grasp, etc) so it's not crazy for any one character never to learn it.
Samurai: Endgame Draw Out is ridiculous, pretty good argument for best, but it has competition. But...I don't feel it's strong at all in even the lategame slot. 1800 JP gets you, what, an unlocked Samurai class and like...Heaven's Cloud, but probably not enough for both Heaven's Cloud and Teleport? Certainly it's not crazy to go a class with more power earlier in the game and skip Samurai.
Time Mage: For all that it'd be weird to have an endgame character that used nothing from Time Mage, it's not really super centralizing because every setup uses something different. Quick strategies are different from haste strategies are different from Teleport Draw Out strategies are different from Short Charge Meteor strategies are different from MP switch strategies.
Squire: Makes a bunch of non-lategame abilities cry. But unlike other centralizing issues, I don't know if banning GJPU and M+1 will really add...that much metagame variety, because a lot of the competition these crowd out are just so bad as to not be probably not worth the JP in the first place.
Wizard: Kinda just the auto go-to carrier class. And MAU is just the auto go-to for...some setups (notably Draw Out, midgame Black Magic smash). And Black Magic makes other early-mid game setups cry. ("Oh look, you can deal 36 damage with Wave Fist? Wouldn't you rather deal twice the damage with AoE instead?")
Yeah, of these, Wizard stands out more than the others of "yes, obviously you use this class". Ban it!
Ban list:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
______________________________________
Now, this ban list seriously scrambles everything. Mages now can't deal damage until the midgame. Demi is now the only early AoE, and it's awful early on. Archers are suddenly cool earlygame because they have range (and even Throw Stone is worth a look). In the earlygame, suddenly Haste is now a complete monster. Normally it's not, because MP is a premium--why are you wasting that Bolt MP, and because you want to keep your CT lined up with the enemies so that you can drop Bolts on them. Now, none of those restrictions apply, and if you're running a party without Haste then that must be a weird setup (like a mass 40-faith party).
Midgame...Priests rise in value for Holy (now practically the only way to take advantage of "Chapter 2 mage equips rock face". Well...other than mage physicals hurting as much as Knight physicals). Monk and Geomancer start being cool just for the range which is now a premium. Haste is still bonkers and almost mandatory for any serious party. But mostly, the gamebreaking stuff is the same (Teleport, Auto-Potion, Lancer equips).
The lategame doesn't change a whole lot. Short Charge Meteor is still good; Ninja is still good. Lancer, Dancer, and Monk don't change much. What drops in value is setups that rush to Teleport and Auto Potion, because they don't get to deal big damage through Wizard. They can still pick up a Mithral Gun, though, so they're actually fine.
In the endgame, not a whole lot changes, but the best setup now pretty much becomes Time Mage with Draw Out and Short Charge. TM gives you game-best MA. Short Charge Quick self for near infinite movement, which rules when combined with Draw Out. And i guess you can always do a faith raised Short Charged Meteor. The one caveat is that you might want revival. Time Mage with item, and Priest with Draw Out are two viable alternatives. And there's Ninja/Lancer with item if you have a Ninja/Lancer lying around that you never re-trained.
So...banning Wizard makes two classes rise above the others as suddenly very centralizing. Chemist, because all of the sudden in the earlygame, midgame, and often also lategame...what are your secondary skillsets? Chances are it's something like four characters with Item, one character with Time Magic. Seriously, what else are you going to use? Most skillsets need a good 1000+ JP investment to really compete with that level of power. The other class that seems centralizing is Time Mage because...Haste becomes so good, suddenly Short Charge becomes the "auto-get" support for several classes, and all of the sudden Time Mage has the highest MA, so it gets some of the spotlight Wizard had.
Thing is, though, with Wizard and Summoner gone, Time Mage is suddenly a lot less attractive; you can't just save straight up for Meteor and Short Charge and expect to still be effective for the party in the mean time; you don't automatically have good damage just by virtue of being a mage. And...even Haste isn't an auto-go because "40 faith party" is actually a strategy worth seriously considering. Yeah, Teleport is still centralizing, but so is Auto-Potion. Given a metagame without Wizard/Summoner support, I think Chemist becomes the #4.
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
______________________________________
So what does the metagame look like now?
Notably we haven't done much to one of the classic "big bad" setups. Ninjas are kinda like Summoners in that you can get near maximum output from them very quickly (Concentrate and Move+2 are in their unlock path)...but they don't get a whole lot better after that. They're sort-of a measuring stick against which all other setups need to compare themselves...but I'm of the opinion that several do.
in lategame: Lancers can deal almost Ninja damage from 8 range while avoiding damage and being in generally tankier classes.
in endgame: Time Mages do all kinds of crazy stuff.
in endgame: Draw Out becomes very, very good.
in lategame: Dance is quite powerful; it arguably has an expiration date, but it's a reasonable stepping stone on the way towards Time Magic or Draw Out or really anywhere you want to go. Get a couple dances, then switch to the class of choice, and whenever you can't be productive with that class, just Nameless Dance.
The other thing to note is that very little is inexpensive anymore. Time Mage and Ninja are probably two classes with targets on their head right now, but both of these classes were using Item pretty heavily pre-ban (because hey, it's very good and it doesn't take work to get). They're both now scrambling for skillsets they don't really want to spend the time to get--I mean, what does Ninja do; master Punch Art? Master Jump? Get Dance? These are all big detours Ninja would rather avoid since chilling in Ninja is awesome. Similarly for Time Mage...do you get Draw Out/White Magic/Dance/Yin Yang Magic/Talk Skill first? And what about reaction abilities? We're talking about two low-HP classes that gain a lot from Auto-Potion being ridiculously accessible.
The physical side of the job tree probably remains more attractive earlygame, which is bad news for Teleport dominance. Especially the part where Ninja is big, as it's going to favour Move+2. And, while, yes, almost every team wants Haste, that's only one secondary slot, not five, so it's not centralizing in the sense of squeezing other skills out of the metagame.
You know, I'm not really sold on either of these right now; Time Mage seems to be hurting from the downfall of the magic side of the job tree. Ninja actually has decent competition in classes like Lancer (a skillset I don't normally take seriously, because "use a Summoner", but with Summoner gone Lancers are now noteworthy).
But you know who is centralizing? Squire. Especially now that a lot of the low-JP stuff is banned and you need to earn 1000+ JP if you want a real skillset. Especially now that Magic Attack Up isn't your auto endgame plan--where you might theoretically want different supports for different fights--Defence Up for this one; Equip Gun for that one. With GJPU there's a tendency to get only two supports: "This is my GJPU support" and "This is my kicking ass support".
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
5. Squire
______________________________________
This is going to have...a rather interesting impact on the metagame. I'm not sure what abilities will rise to the top as earlygame supports now--Equip Change is not an option due to the Chemist ban. Nor is Equip Axe due to the Squire ban (which actually would be solid for some classes in Chapter 1). Equip Shield, Secret Hunt, and Martial Arts are inexpensive pickups that can give a small boost to several classes, so they're considerations. It's also possible supports will just be ignored until the 400 JP level (DU, MDU, Concentrate, Attack Up).
But the JP impact will be more significant. First of all let's look at non-spillover JP. GJPU gains you 50% more JP, so dividing all the JP values by 1.5 gives us...
Earlygame: 130 JP
Midgame: 400 JP
Lategame: 1200 JP
Endgame: 3600 JP
But that ignores roundoff, and spillover JP is not affected by GJPU, so it's probably more realistic to divide JP by 1.3 or so.
Earlygame: 150 JP
Midgame: 450 JP
Lategame: 1350 JP
Endgame: 4150 JP
So using these, the new metagame is something like...
Earlygame: Knight, Archer, Priest--these are the only classes available to you, and they're all solid.
Midgame: Time Mage for Haste and Slow is great (but non-centralizing). You can have like...a Monk with Wave Fist, but I'm honestly more impressed by Mediator with Romanda Gun. You can just barely unlock Lancer and learn nothing in the class, but that's still enough to replace Knight and stand out for having stats.
Lategame: Move+2 Concentrate Ninja. Most of the other stuff formerly in this category really does cost 1800+ JP. You can't get to Dancer in time anymore; you have to cut some Punch Art; you can get Level Jump 8 for Lancer but no significant vertical jump. You certainly can't get both Short Charge and Meteor. You can get Teleport, but what are you getting Teleport for? Teleport Geomancer?
Endgame: Draw Out Time Mage is still probably dominant, although kind-of tight on JP now. Might have to skip, say, Meteor. (In fact, Samurai is just tight on JP in general--I assume you want Kikuichimoji, Kiyomori, Muramasa, Murasame, one of the cheap ones like Koutetsu, and might as well stay for Blade Grasp. That's like...3000 JP--job levels help here, making it more like 2400 JP, but unlocking Samurai is another 1250 JP or so, which means 3650 altogether; that leaves, what, 500 JP? It's a stretch to even afford Teleport...). An initial rush to Dancer and then using dances to get to lategame in another class (such as TM, Samurai) is a lot less impressive now--there's just not that much room for detours.
So...know who's looking really damn good right now? Ninja; they just don't need the JP. They seem like clearly the best in Lategame, and for Endgame they can easily augment their Lategame performance with, say, mastered Punch Art (while still having JP to spare to get like...Two Swords to make grinding in Monk more hilarious). Ban 'Em.
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
5. Squire
6. Ninja
______________________________________
And now...honestly I'm going to go back to the old JP values, namely
earlygame: 200 JP
midgame: 600 JP
lategame: 1800 JP
endgame: 5400 JP
The reason being is as follows: these numbers were chosen fairly carefully--600 JP is enough to unlock all of the basic classes and do something with them. 1800 JP is enough to unlock all the advanced classes and do something with them, and to get almost any one ability in the game. 5400 JP is meant to throw Mime a bone by letting them at least get unlocked at the very, very, end of the game although...wait, 5400 is still not really enough for Mime. You know what, let's deliberately fudge these up a little and pretend I planned for Mime all along.
earlygame: 233 JP
midgame: 700 JP
lategame: 2100 JP
endgame: 6300 JP
(These actually fit a bit better with how I've been ballparking things--like Teleport being possible in midgame, and Short Charge Meteor and CT5Holy being possible in lategame; clearly these are the numbers I really meant to use).
Anyhow, earlygame and midgame have been showing themselves reasonably healthy, and the stuff that's good in these time periods doesn't tend to stay dominant (except Haste, but in a non-centralizing way). For instance, Holy from midgame gets outclassed by Short Charge Meteor from lategame.
It's in the lategame/endgame that I'm expecting to find balance problems with the current classes. So...we're looking for a class that completely centralizes a time period, or is very dominant in multiple time periods. Which means the candidates are...
Time Mage (lategame, endgame, and to some degree midgame--Archer with Teleport can be dumb).
Lancer (lategame, endgame, and to some degree midgame--Chapter 2 Lancer equipment is dumb).
Dancer (lategame, and makes a good secondary for any class you want to train for endgame).
Samurai (endgame).
I'm inclined to strike Dancer and Samurai from this list. They're really good in their respective time periods, but they certainly don't need to be your plan A. So...Time Mage and Lancer.
midgame: I'd say Time Mage takes it. I'd rather have a hasted Knight than a Lancer. And...Teleport breaks some maps far more than Haste ever could. Not that midgame matters too much--it's not really the strength of either of these classes.
Lategame: You know what's funny? This is basically Chapter 3 Time Mage SCC vs Chapter 3 Lancer SCC--it's not like either of them can have much of a secondary without Item or Black Magic or Summon Magic available. Lancer probably grabs Steal Heart, and Time Mage probably gets some low-level white magic. Actually, Lancer might delay a bit and grab Move+2, which is a nice upgrade from the SCC. There is one noteworthy difference, though--spillover JP. One Time Mage going for Short Charge Meteor gets your entire team Teleport from spillover JP, which is pretty cool. Lancer can do something similar with Dragon Spirit, but it's not as good, and it's not as free (not everyone will have Lancer unlocked). Anyway, Time Mage SCC vs Lancer SCC in Chapter 3 is...actually not obvious for which is better: they both completely and utterly smash it. Yardow threatens a reset if played wrong, probably, but...yeah. There's an extra variable, though--which class does teamwork better in a diverse team? And that's probably Time Mage--with teammates who can mop up after Meteor lands, teammates who can hit opponents with non-CT moves, potentially teammates who can heal MP, potentially teammates who can Pray Faith, and teammates who benefit a lot more from haste.
Endgame: Lancer spikes up a lot here. Poached spears are a big spike in damage. Switching to another class and wearing a Power Sleeve is a big spike in damage. Thief Hat is a big spike in useability. Which...all serves to even the playing field, because the Time Mage SCC smashes Chapter 4 and the Lancer SCC does not (barring high levels). But then we get to the stuff Time Mages gain. Permanent faith boosting, the fact that they're probably the best carrier for arguably the best skillset at this point (Draw Out). The spare JP to add a reaction ability (when frailty was always a weak point). Time Mages seem better here, too.
Just...midgame, lategame, endgame, all seem to favour Time Mage over Lancer. OMGWTF ban.
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
5. Squire
6. Ninja
7. Time Mage
______________________________________
So...what now?
Earlygame: Priest is kinda cool, being the only available healing/reviving at this point. Knight has the stats, Archer has the range, Thief has Steal Heart. But nothing is really mind-blowing.
Midgame: Priest has Holy, and can deal around 252 damage with it...once. Monk has Earth Slash and can deal 48 damage with it. Geomancer has elemental and can deal...40 damage with it. Archer has lightning bow and can deal ~56 damage with it. Lancer can deal 108 with a Jump, but doesn't have much range. Mediator can deal 36 with a Romanda Gun. Oracle has Battle Bamboo for 77 damage. Hm...of this group, I'm most impressed by Geomancer, Lancer, and Priest. In non-damage...thief has probably the best RSM in Move+2, which is now basically without competition. Oracle/Mediator have some high power status in Sleep/Mimic Daravon, with Sleep probably being the more powerful of the two (75% hit rate instead of 50% hit rate). Silence Song is also awesome. Invitation is worth considering if you plan to poach. But...really, nothing here stands out as especially dominant. Probably the best is like...Oracle with Holy, where you blast one target, and then run around giving out stick beats. Toss in Silence Song to break a couple Chapter 2 fights.
Lategame: Lancer goes up to oh, 143 at range 8, vert 7. Holy doesn't change much; maybe like 275 now. Geomancer's elemental doesn't improve much, but physical attack gets...to the levels of what Lancer does at range 8...yeah, nevermind. Mediator goes up to 64 gun damage. Monk's Earth Slash gets a big boost from Power Sleeve and Attack Up to 144. Early Samurai stuff is like...Heaven's Cloud Oracle at 196. In fact...huh, Blade Grasp + Koutetsu fits in under the 2100 JP cap (168 damage). You do need to switch out of Samurai to bring your A-Game to that, of course. Oh, I just realized, Equip Shield is totally the new Magic Attack Up--yeah, raise all the magic damage numbers (210 damage for Heaven's Cloud Oracle; 300 damage for Holy). Nameless Dance is nasty at this point in the game, of course.
Endgame: Lancer spikes massively to 289 damage by switching to Geomancer or Monk with a poached spear and PA boosting. Holy doesn't change much (I'm calculating 336; more like 400 after faith boosting) but notably Holy is now castable 3+ times so you can spam it. Oracle becomes a beast due to ridiculous versatility and raised faith. Draw Out...Muramasa Oracle is 324; Kikuichimoji Oracle is 288; Kiyomori is hax; Move+2 helps Draw Out a lot. Two Hands Oracle can deal 544 damage with Whale Whisker. Monk likes levels and bracers, gets a 256 Earth Slash; Monk has zero versatility, though--can't switch out equipment; can't have HP; can't have speed. Mediator gets elemental guns with robes for ~211 damage.
It's kind-of interesting how there seems to be quite a bit of competition at several levels; not always the same classes. I'm...really leaning towards Samurai on this one, though. The best endgame skillset is one thing. The support ability that allows for the highest damage in the game with no real drawback is one thing. Unexpectedly solid lategame setup is also nifty, but what's really getting me here is Blade Grasp. Now, I've gone on rants about how Blade Grasp isn't that special, how Auto Potion is pretty much just better and BG is overhyped. Now ask yourself, what competition is not already banned? Auto-Potion? Banned. MP-Switch? Banned. Critical Quick? Banned. Sunken State? Banned. Abandon? Banned. Hammedo? Not banned, and situationally much better, but "usually doesn't stop enemy archers" is often a deal-breaker, not to mention that doesn't work on monsters thing. Damage Split? Banned. HP Restore? Mediocre except in boss fights where you can predict enemy zodiac, faith, and stats. So...yes, if you ban all of Blade Grasp's competition, then suddenly it becomes very, very centralizing.
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
5. Squire
6. Ninja
7. Time Mage
8. Samurai
______________________________________
So...what now? The biggest shakeup is that the obvious best endgame option is gone. Who has the best Chapter 4 now? And how do you answer this question in the case of interesting hybrid setups, like combining Equip Gun with Jump and a stolen elemental gun? Well...let's go for a simpler question: what class has the easiest SCC in the endgame? And I believe the correct answer is Oracle (or Mediator with elemental guns). Who benefits the most from multiclassing? Lancer loves being able to use Clothes and poached/stolen items. Priest loves to play the support role and have allies that don't run out of gas. Dancer loves to have teammates who can blitz and generally deal with non-statusable enemies; in fact, Dance can easily go on just about any class. Mediator has essentially no R/S/M abilities in the SCC, so that's big, and they do a whole bunch of slow long-term stuff that doesn't come out in the SCC, like breeding. And Equip Gun is...actually probably quite good; hold on, let's analyze this....
What are the best remaining support abilities that you'd take into a tough fight? Not counting skillset specific ones (Martial Arts, Equip Spear) there's...
Equip Shield (chibi Magic Attack Up in lategame onwards. And there's also elemental shield shenanigans).
Equip Gun (now that there's no MAU or GJPU, very few setups wouldn't be better with a gun, and more improved than they would be by, say, Attack Up or +1 MA).
Attack Up (has its uses too, of course, like boss blitzes and Monks).
Defense Up (Almost always relevant, and pretty significant).
Magic Defense Up (More niche, but when it's good, it's very good).
Most of these cost too much to be pulled out early (in fact, a lot of them seem more endgame than lategame) but this is definitely a point for both Oracle and Mediator endgame.
Hm, Dancer's value has probably gone down a little. Dancer/Monk and Dancer/Lancer seem sub-par because of being female. Dancer/Oracle and Dancer/Mediator feel kind-of redundant. Dancer/Priest seems fairly solid, but grinding to Dancer takes longer than just sitting in Priest and learning a bunch of good abilities.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place; though--maybe endgame has reached a happy equilibrium. What about lategame? Lategame is...being brutally smoked by Lancer. Yeah, Monk and Priest are competitive on the damage, but we've got the SCC comparison for this one; it's not particularly close. And...hey, Lancer was in the running for endgame anyway. OMGban
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
5. Squire
6. Ninja
7. Time Mage
8. Samurai
9. Lancer
______________________________________
With Lancer gone we get an interesting metagame shift--all of the sudden, Oracle has the best physical damage in Chapter 2. Not really in endgame Chapter 4 which can see brave-raised Monk and silly stuff like that, but they aren't bad due to poaches. Granted, I'd argue guns > sticks regardless.
Mediator and Oracle are funny, because they're both pretty powerful among the remaining classes, but they fill niches (and similar niches at that making neither one dominant) so they're not exactly centralizing.
Well...with Lancer gone, does the dominating of Chapter 3 get picked up by another class? You know, I'd hazard a guess at Priest. Their high speed isn't a penalty like it is in Chapter 2 (in fact, it lets them hit Ninjas safely even if the Ninja move-waits). There's lots of assassination missions. Enemy totals tend to cap out at 6ish--no Golgorand or Sluice.
And...Priests seem like a fine choice anyway. I'm thinking the highest damage-per-character-per-turn in the current midgame is like...three priests, and two Monks with Chakra to heal MP so that the priests can Holy every turn. Mage damage in chapter 2 is just that out-of-whack that dedicated MP-healing is actually worthwhile. Granted, this requires finding flat terrain and moving as a group so that Chakra hits multiple targets. (In Chapter 3 it just requires one Bard with Angel Song, and yeah, that easily wins damage-per-character-per-turn in Chapter 3, too. Also Chapter 4. For all that I'm inclined to take full-party combos with a grain of salt--I'm not basing this list around The Quickening or Sunken Stated Dance--that still stands out to me). Yeah, PriestHax seems the sensible thing to cry here!
Ban-List:
1. Calculator
2. Summoner
3. Wizard
4. Chemist
5. Squire
6. Ninja
7. Time Mage
8. Samurai
9. Lancer
10. Priest
______________________________________
And...that's where I'm going to stop for tonight. Whee, FFT analysis; easy way to eat up 12 hours of a vacation......