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Author Topic: LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!)  (Read 410808 times)

Taishyr

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2008, 12:31:36 AM »
Mmm. Okay, the Death charge time is a good point and one I wasn't really thinking on. That'd make it a bit more balanced.

Also, approval of breaks being good, just because it makes things a bit more interesting to me. So.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2008, 12:44:38 AM »
The problem with the breaks is that they take too long to really reach a meaningful effect, so you could've just killed the enemy instead unless your skill setups totally suck.  You need to stack Speed Break several times before a target is genuinely crippled, at less than perfect accuracy, and speed break is probably the second best skill in that set.  Weapon Break is marginally better, but it's useless against a whole lot of targets (monsters, Monks, mages, Ninjas still have one weapon) and even a punch from a physical attacker isn't *that* useless it's from a low Brave random.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2008, 02:04:52 AM »
Meliadoul/Orlandu ignore evade, have more range, and deal damage while they break stuff.  Despite this, Meliadoul isn't even considered a particularly great character.

Well yes generics lose vs. uniques.  Meliadoul is fine, I certainly used her, the main complaint against her is that you get her so late she's annoying to level and she's easily compared to Orlandu.  Also, to some degree I'm referring to characters at their best.  Sure, Breaks aren't great vs. monsters, but that's just the way it works.  Making them completely awesome vs. humans is eh, since that encourages Weapon Break abuse even more when you know you're fighting humans.  It sounds like you can, if knowing a mostly/100% human battle is coming up, just cheerfully stick Break skills on your Chemist or whatever and easily render the fight a laugher by shooting up all their weapons before they even close.  This is acceptable when you're assuming the fight is a laugher because it's Chapter 4 and you have awesome unqiues, but it means you get to do that the whole game now.

If you have two swords already, can't you just kill Gafgarion instead?
Not really?  Gafgarion is tanky and draining, while Ramza might be doing damage Ramza tends to die before finishing the job is my recollection (since Gaf is still solidly 3HKOing).  I never understood the Gafgarion disrespect elsewhere; I wonder if mine is ubered. Sure, at the Execution site you can just rush him with a bunch of characters.  As for the duel, when I beat games on later playthroughs with fewer skills, I generally beat him via healing and running to open the gate so my buddies could help out, then having a 5-on-1 lynch mob.  I consider myself pretty good at FFT too; haven't done the more insane challenges, but I did do semi-reasonable challenges like going through with one fewer character than the max in all battles and rushing to the end in the minimum number of days.

This was actually part of the argument--encouraging the player to use the Maintenance support ability (which doesn't get much love as-is).

Maybe, but enemy breaks aren't much fun.  I realize this is subjective, but having to run back to the store and re-buy equipment is annoying.  It's even worse if the knights before Velius now get to break your stuff and you don't have spares in the inventory since you can't run back and rebuy equipment.  Finger Guard doesn't get much love either, but ubering Talk Skill to make it worthwhile seems counterproductive.

I know you're a Magic fan, so think of this way: "nobody is using this anti-coin flipping card enough, so let's make coin-flipping tournament level and everywhere."  Bad plan.

The new Wizard's Death takes two full rounds to cast (18 CTR).  This design would not work well at all with range 4.
Ah, okay, I see.  Weird, but works, I suppose.

The problem with the breaks is that they take too long to really reach a meaningful effect, so you could've just killed the enemy instead unless your skill setups totally suck.

I generally agree about Speed Break, but it could theoretically have its moments, which is why I support knocking the ability breaks up to 100%.   As it stands, I think the main use of Speed Break is to do something like Slow Elmdor down so you can steal his stuff.  It might have a use if there was a tremendously tanky and damaging yet already slow monster in the game, such that it only took two Speed Breaks to cripple his speed.  But yeah, in general, if you want to slow down enemies, Dancer's Slow Dance is the way to do it.  That's pretty decent in the Deep Dungeon, where you have plenty of time to mess with the enemies from afar before closing.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2008, 05:49:17 AM »
If you have two swords already, can't you just kill Gafgarion instead?
Not really?  Gafgarion is tanky and draining, while Ramza might be doing damage Ramza tends to die before finishing the job is my recollection (since Gaf is still solidly 3HKOing). 

I dunno there, really. With Two Swords and a remotely competent setup, you should be 2HKOing Gaff at the very worst there, at that point Strength twinking options begin to show up. Alternatively, I was horribly OHKOing him with Summoner Ramza, so methinks this is just a matter of setting up properly, like in most of FFT.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2008, 08:41:49 AM »
Cameo request because I am greedy, Zeklaus Desert battle, name the enemies Kerensky, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Bogdanov, Pokrovsky and of course Lenin.

Lots of good stuff here Laggy, as expected.  Might be tempted to try it.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2008, 09:42:06 AM »
I suppose it's impossible to improve BOCO without making all generic chocobos pure evil?  Enough MA to fully heal and maybe double the damage would be funny.

And... female ninja in Meliadoul's fight (I'm told there's one anyway.)  CK is fine, April 24.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2008, 10:56:46 AM »
I guess you could see breaking weapons as game breaking, except there's some enemies who become stronger if you break their weapons.  It's just another viable tool for a class and a skillset that badly needs it.  Especially since any round you spend breaking their gear is a round where you're not hurting them.  Or doing any of a dozen other things.

As for worries about enemy equip breaks, it just means you have to try that much harder to keep those knights from reaching and smacking you.  They are still range 1, after all.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2008, 03:09:17 PM »
On the PC balance side, being able to break equipment with 100% accuracy at longbow or gun range seems somewhat unfair to me. It'd do wonders for Mediator damage vs. humans, though!

Also, cameo request: One of the Sluice Gate wizards, name Shale, birthday 9/28.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2008, 03:21:42 PM »
I tend to agree enemy equip breaks hitting you is pretty annoying, but it was annoying already, and is still blocked by all the same things.

On the other hand, as someone who has done a Knight SCC? Equipment breaks SUCK. The Weapon Break hype I've seen in this topic is just silly. Okay, it's useful against swordskillers... kinda. Duel Gafgarion is just about the only one who isn't way, way easier to kill first. I guess you can add Wiegraf 1 to that list if you get the ability early enough, Dycedarg (assuming you have Teleport or guns), and maaaybe Rofel (ignoring you could conceivably train Cid for Hellcry by now, or just magic him to death). It's also useful against Balk, though have fun landing it against form 2 (Concentrate does help).

Against randoms? You've got a move that hovers around 50% accuracy (and that's an overestimate for most of the game) before evade which is reasonably good at negating enemy archers and that's... about... it. Against anyone with a melee weapon it is as a rule utterly pathetic, since punches are actually not as much weaker as you expect. Against a knight, Power Break is probably accomplishing just as much, and Power Break is a total waste of your time.

You can argue it's too good an archer killer if you stick it on a ranged weapon. This has some merit. Granted, given how horrible Battle Skill is, it arguably could use a skill slightly on the "too good" side - after all, it's in no danger at all of matching Summon Magic or heck, Item as a skillset.

If you were really concerned, you could keep Weapon Break as not 100%, but up its K value to say... 60 or so so it hovers around 75-80% hit rate. Every other equip break badly needs to go to 100%, because they are all pretty much entirely useless as is.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2008, 03:23:47 PM »
Oh yeah: Any way you can stick a crossbow on that C1 Knight cameo? <_< What?! Definitely want to play this when it comes out.

Quote
On the other hand, as someone who has done a Knight SCC? Equipment breaks SUCK. The Weapon Break hype I've seen in this topic is just silly. Okay, it's useful against swordskillers... kinda. Duel Gafgarion is just about the only one who isn't way, way easier to kill first. I guess you can add Wiegraf 1 to that list if you get the ability early enough, Dycedarg (assuming you have Teleport or guns), and maaaybe Rofel (ignoring you could conceivably train Cid for Hellcry by now, or just magic him to death). It's also useful against Balk, though have fun landing it against form 2 (Concentrate does help).

Seconded. Breaks at 100% aren't overpowered, though it does make Gaf suck more than usual in a normal game if the rate's upped.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2008, 04:04:00 PM »
Looks really cool. I'm not a FFT expert like everyone else, so I can't comment on how balanced these changes make everything.

It -is- nice that you've improved Rafa and Malak a bit considering how much screen time they got and how much hype they received in the plot for their otherwise craptastic abilities.

Can I claim a cameo of one of the archers in the opening tutorial fight at Orbonne Monastery? 'Djinn' and 'December 25' would be the necessary stats. Yay, Capricorn.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2008, 04:51:49 PM »
Would a Chocobo cameo be to much to ask? Any Chocobo anywhere would work, call it Ultra, Sept. 8 birthday.

Otherwise, a knight somewhere on the same map as MALAK would be happy.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2008, 04:58:07 PM »
You must come over here and show this off, Laggy.

And as for a cameo, any random unit on the same map as Tai. Gate for the name, of course.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2008, 05:26:08 PM »
Yeah, you can block weapon breaks, but I still have a dim opinion of raising the accuracy. It's not for the PC end, as you can break FFT easily enough anyway, but having your gear toasted is always a pain in the ass.
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Taishyr

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2008, 06:06:37 PM »
Give Thieves innate Maintenance, idly?

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2008, 06:09:59 PM »
Believe it or not, the AI will often choose a physical over breaking as Knights just because it is the all-round superior option to them. I know this coming out of a nearly complete walkthrough (yeah, they break hats and armor a lot more compared to before, but it's still not that big a deal - maybe a quarter of the time I saw Knights who actually bothered with Breaks. Unless you're using super-rare stuff it's easily replaceable.)

As a side note, I have just finished preliminary changes to the encounters I wanted and need testers to test everything listed in the first post (in-game documentation isn't edited yet, and won't be until I make sure I'm happy everything works the way as planned) so if you want the patched ISO, just contact me via AIM or post here. Preferably AIM since that's pretty much the only way I can send it.
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Taishyr

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2008, 06:10:55 PM »
I'm game to test, will grab patched ISO Wednesday as I'm on campus till then.

Bardiche

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2008, 06:35:23 PM »
I have an actual CD of Final Fantasy Tactics. Is it possible to just... y'know, produce a patch file? I can just rip the ISO off my CD and play that then rather than gank it off there.

Otherwise, I'd love to playtest but someone'll have to produce the ISO and send it me through... IRC? IRC or similar media that allow 800mb to cross the tubes to Europe.

I've been wanting to replay FFT anyhow. :)

Laggy

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2008, 06:39:30 PM »


Bard: Text editing has required me to actually edit the files on the ISO and there's no obvious way to patch that without downloading all of the hacking tools I used and re-implementing text changes yourself. In short, you could but it'd probably be easier in effort on both of us just to send the ISO.
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Bardiche

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2008, 06:45:31 PM »
Might be easier to do it that way then, yeah. I don't have AIM though. Only Yahoo, IRC and MSN. God Knows I hate AIM like hell hath no.

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2008, 06:48:59 PM »
Weapon Break is marginally better, but it's useless against a whole lot of targets (monsters, Monks, mages, Ninjas still have one weapon)
Actually Ninjas are probably one of the targets that has the biggest damage drop from Weapon Break.  You're cutting their damage in half, which is better than Weapon Break does against, say, a Knight.


On the PC balance side, being able to break equipment with 100% accuracy at longbow or gun range seems somewhat unfair to me. It'd do wonders for Mediator damage vs. humans, though!
Mediator damage?  Mythril Gun is 64 damage, 80 with Attack Up, and potentially lots if you use Charge (especially with the upgraded Charge skillset--128 should actually be pretty easy to hit).

Breaking equipment tends to deal a maximum of 100, and only hits its maximum if your target hasn't taken any damage from anyone else yet.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 06:54:55 PM by metroid composite »

Laggy

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2008, 07:42:49 PM »
On cameos -

Djinn, all the units in Orbonne Monastary actually have pre-generated names. You'll need to find another one.

Grefter, I can't spare that much space (having custom names period glitches the game as is, it's just a minor cosmetic one). Also there's no fight at Zeklaus Desert - I presume you mean Sand Rat Cellar? (I can pick one of them and name him Lenin if you want >_>)

Updated game notes, still looking for people to test.
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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2008, 07:55:17 PM »
Make Alanna a female wizard in the last battle of chapter 1 vs Algus. Birthday April 11th.

I like making Algus die to  his own friendly fire :P

Too bad there are no dancers in battles >_>

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2008, 08:19:45 PM »
I'd like a cameo as one of the squires in Grog Hill.  If it's possible, make him dual wield axes. (I know axes can't be dual wield but with hacking you might?!?!)   It needs to be the best axes though.  No other skills required except Walk on Lava and Counter.

Laggy

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Re: FFT Changes
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2008, 08:27:03 PM »
You cannot dual wield axes. (Yes, I've tried) >_>

EDIT: Still need a birthday and a name (Ephraim I presume).

EDIT THE SECOND: Looks like I already hit the limit for custom names, unfortunately - the minor cosmetic glitch I mentioned before is now... um, exponentially larger, so I'm going to have to stop taking requests now.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 08:33:35 PM by Laggy »
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