Author Topic: LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!) (Read 410545 times)

Ranmilia · « **Reply #1550 on:** February 19, 2011, 09:11:10 AM »

Certainly possible, but it'd be a lot of work (as attested to by the fact that nobody's actually done a straight port yet...) and you couldn't put them into LFT. You can't straight up add jobs and abilities, they have to replace something else. In vanilla this isn't much of a problem since there are quite a lot of jobs and abilities in the code that aren't used in the game, but LFT yoinked all of the ability slots and I think most of the job slots as well to make its bonus content.

Fudozukushi · « **Reply #1551 on:** February 19, 2011, 10:17:51 AM »

Obviously Teta must become an Onion Knight.

Nephrite · « **Reply #1552 on:** February 19, 2011, 05:57:32 PM »

Quote from: Sir Alex on February 19, 2011, 09:11:10 AM

Certainly possible, but it'd be a lot of work (as attested to by the fact that nobody's actually done a straight port yet...) and you couldn't put them into LFT. You can't straight up add jobs and abilities, they have to replace something else. In vanilla this isn't much of a problem since there are quite a lot of jobs and abilities in the code that aren't used in the game, but LFT yoinked all of the ability slots and I think most of the job slots as well to make its bonus content.

Well, Onion Knights don't have abilities anyway, right? So at the very least it's a possibility.

Laggy · « **Reply #1553 on:** February 21, 2011, 01:17:42 AM »

http://www.rpgdl.com/lft

Main site presence.

If anyone wants to suggest how to put in (or just do it themselves) the changelog bit without looking horribly spammy and/or ugly, I'm all ears. I'm good with functionality, not aesthetics.

Nephrite · « **Reply #1554 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:42:30 AM »

I know it'd be cumbersome and I'd be willing to help out, but I almost think it'd be good to just notate every single thing that is changed... I'm sure RICHARD and I could just do a class or two in our spare time and toss them up, would that work out?

metroid composite · « **Reply #1555 on:** February 21, 2011, 04:39:20 PM »

Onion Knight and Dark Knight functionality probably aren't copyable without extensive ASM hacks anyway. Like...a class that doesn't gain exp--how do you implement this using pre-existing FFT mechanics? A class that must eat 20 crystals to unlock--how do you implement this using pre-existing FFT mechanics?

Nephrite · « **Reply #1556 on:** February 21, 2011, 07:25:58 PM »

Well, I think it'd be easy to take some creative liberties with the classes, right? I mean, I'm sure there'd be a way to port them without the superfluous junk and just leave their skillsets and unique playstyle there.

Nephrite · « **Reply #1557 on:** February 22, 2011, 07:29:28 PM »

And because I like to quote myself, here's a thought, probably far too late to matter, but eh:

A Blue Mage class. I have a feeling, due to the way monster skills were changed, that it would end up being wildly overpowered in the end, but I always thought it was strange that there wasn't one.

metroid composite · « **Reply #1558 on:** February 22, 2011, 07:51:49 PM »

Quote from: Nephrite on February 22, 2011, 07:29:28 PM

And because I like to quote myself, here's a thought, probably far too late to matter, but eh:

A Blue Mage class. I have a feeling, due to the way monster skills were changed, that it would end up being wildly overpowered in the end, but I always thought it was strange that there wasn't one.

It'd probably be underwhelming, actually. Monster skills tend to be balanced for around 50 MA. So...you're looking at half the hit-rate on those status moves, or a quarter of the damage on the damage moves. (Well...the PA moves are fine. So like...Turn Punch, Choco Ball, and Triple Attack. And Triple Bracelet would break zodiac fights).

Nephrite · « **Reply #1559 on:** February 22, 2011, 11:12:55 PM »

Is there functionality to dis-allow the use of a secondary job so that, for example, the class could have incredible PA and MA but you'd be restricted to only using the primary job skills?

Laggy · « **Reply #1560 on:** February 23, 2011, 01:24:14 AM »

Short answer: No.

Pre-emptive answer: You can view the program that edits FFT itself here to know what functionality it offers.

Nephrite · « **Reply #1561 on:** February 23, 2011, 01:39:14 AM »

I see, well, never mind then.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #1562 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:43:37 AM »

I like the format of the mainsite post. Is it supposed to cut off after Wizard, though?

Laggy · « **Reply #1563 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:01:34 AM »

Work in progress.

But yeah, I'm taking my time to make it as presentable as possible.

metroid composite · « **Reply #1564 on:** February 23, 2011, 02:16:49 PM »

Quote from: Nephrite on February 22, 2011, 11:12:55 PM

Is there functionality to dis-allow the use of a secondary job so that, for example, the class could have incredible PA and MA but you'd be restricted to only using the primary job skills?

Maybe with ASM hacks (Mime does something vaguely like that) but more to the point...

why would you want to?

Monsters are currently balanced to be decent for party use (in a party that isn't going out of its way to break the game). This is despite the fact that each individual monster has very low versatility. A human with every single monster skill would have freakish versatility. Who cares if you have a 40%-50% hit rate on your status moves? You've still got better status than Mediator (stuff like petrify). Who cares if your Choco Meteor doesn't deal much damage? If you can get any of Triple Thunder/Triple Flame/Dark Whisper then your damage will be stupid good (especially with Laggy buffing them o_O); chances are we wouldn't allow those three, but Giga Flare is still good--7 mult compared to Kikuichimoji's 12-mult, but can reach high places, isn't restricted to a line.... (Note that I believe Kikuijimoji holds the record for "most times hit with a nerf bat in LFT development"). And if that's not enough damage? Tornado--is completely ridiculous under our system...actually hell, probably broken under FFT too (8 range summon with 38 mult that adds confusion for 30 MP and 7 ctr. Umm...yeah, I think that might actually be better than classic Shiva/Ramuh/Ifrit; we'd probably have to not let people learn that one). Oh yeah, and if you're picking up monster skills you get healing, revival, shell/protect/reraise adding, superb stat debuffs, 75% drain attack, Shock! style abilities, MP healing....

Basically, even with crappy human stats, there would be some risk of this class being overpowered due to sheer versatility, and a few moves that are still decent with human stats (the obvious ban ones like Triple Thunder and Tornado we'd presumably not let you learn).

Grefter · « **Reply #1565 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:17:39 PM »

I believe Neph is talking about mimicing Onion Knight from War of the Lion there rather than blue mage class.

That said that is a pretty damn good run down of the problems of making a blue mage class.

Nephrite · « **Reply #1566 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:19:32 PM »

Quote from: Grefter on February 23, 2011, 09:17:39 PM

I believe Neph is talking about mimicing Onion Knight from War of the Lion there rather than blue mage class.

That said that is a pretty damn good run down of the problems of making a blue mage class.

It sounds like it's way too much trouble to do any of it anyway and I doubt I have the skill to implement it.

Grefter · « **Reply #1567 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:23:07 PM »

Oh indeed. It isn't an uncommon request to see regarding FFT though, so nice to have some kind of frame of reference to what it would have done to the game to try and implement it.

metroid composite · « **Reply #1568 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:11:50 PM »

Quote from: Grefter on February 23, 2011, 09:17:39 PM

I believe Neph is talking about mimicing Onion Knight from War of the Lion there rather than blue mage class.

Oh.

I guess my brain couldn't process why anyone would want WotL-style Onion Knights (no secondary? No RSM? No skills? No gaining levels? No special abilities like Mimic? Wtf is the point?) and therefore I assumed it must be another class.

Actually...that gets me thinking. My objection to WotL Onion Knight is "they're really boring." But...on a smaller scale that seems to be a problem we've been having with Lancers as well. I would be open to swapping out Lancers with something resembling WotL Dark Knights. Kind-of a shame to remove jump from the game altogether but...actually wait: I wonder if Jump could go on a monster... >_>. (Like...birds make sense flying into the air and dive-bombing...).

Nephrite · « **Reply #1569 on:** February 24, 2011, 12:56:16 AM »

Rename Jump to Fly! I'm so original.

What exactly could WotL Dark Knights do? I could probably just look up the answer to that, I suppose...

Though if you did add Onion Knight, I'd say if you made it have some unique innates and equipment options it could potentially be interesting... Innate Two Swords + mage equips or something? I dunno, I'm not very good at coming up with that sort of concept. I'm also probably way too late to the party to just be randomly suggesting things to a 99.99999% complete mod and should just work on my own if I think I can suggest anything. >_>

metroid composite · « **Reply #1570 on:** February 24, 2011, 02:45:11 AM »

Quote from: Nephrite on February 24, 2011, 12:56:16 AM

Though if you did add Onion Knight, I'd say if you made it have some unique innates and equipment options it could potentially be interesting... Innate Two Swords + mage equips or something? I dunno, I'm not very good at coming up with that sort of concept. I'm also probably way too late to the party to just be randomly suggesting things to a 99.99999% complete mod and should just work on my own if I think I can suggest anything. >_>

Innate two swords + mage equips is...only really useful if you can set secondaries.

Now mage equips + innate two swords on a class that can set secondaries is a thought, sure, but...magic carrier with good equip options and not much of a skillset themselves has already been done by Squire and Geomancer (and kinda sorta Bard, Knight, and Mediator). And there's other, arguably more interesting innates if you want to tempt magic users (innate Short Charge has not been used. A class with some way of getting transparent easily would allow for perfect accuracy spells. There's some possibility for interesting downsides, like a class with start: innocent but otherwise freakish magic stats).

Quote

What exactly could WotL Dark Knights do? I could probably just look up the answer to that, I suppose...

Some stuff that's pretty doable--like WP*PA stuff. A few moves that aren't easily with current editing tools--like a Malak-style move that uses low faith, except it's PA based--but could be done with hex-editing. And a couple moves that would be a lot harder to implement).

To be honest, though, I'd be happy just using the theme of the class, and taking some liberties with it. Like...I'd love to have a move that people wanted to use with a nice simple formula like PA * 12. Magic has tons of these. The physical side has a couple, but they're bad (most can miss, most are range 1, most deal really bad damage, and they're all random singletarget damage). And the rest of physical is all PA*PA or PA*WP (nothing wrong with either of these, just they tend towards different optimizations than PA * const does). Using existing formula...Worker 8-style moves on a human sound pretty neat.

Nephrite · « **Reply #1571 on:** February 24, 2011, 04:24:33 AM »

Well, I'm sure you guys could think of something interesting that didn't require like 30 levels of job mastering.

Laggy · « **Reply #1572 on:** February 24, 2011, 04:48:04 AM »

I'm a little reluctant to add anything dramatic on a patch that is for all intents and purposes done, yeah. The main content of this update are random changes, which is a project Tonfa had undertaken and I had never planned to, as well as updating the PSP patch.

In any case, spent way too much spiffing up the front page. Let me know how it looks: http://www.rpgdl.com/lft

I may add in monster data at some point as well, but the point of it is to give a casual glance at what the patch does primarily rather than a comprehensive guide (the docs are for that).

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #1573 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:24:32 AM »

I like the front page. Pictures make everything better, and it's an excellent sumary of what to expect from the hack at least in terms of classes. (And class rebalance is the hack's biggest point of appeal to me.)

Lord Ephraim · « **Reply #1574 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:32:55 AM »

What do you mean by PSP patch, by the way? The PSP retranslation? A working Eboot of the playstation version that works on a PSP? Or the actual WotL remake? I've tried running an ISO -> Eboot program so I can play LFT on the go but it doesn't work. I managed to get a working eboot ripping the iso from my CD copy of FFT , but the moment I patch it then convert to Eboot, it's unrecognizable by the PSP.

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Author Topic: LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!) (Read 410545 times)