Author Topic: Books  (Read 159115 times)

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #450 on: November 01, 2009, 02:07:03 AM »
I think I forgot to mention that I read Cat's Cradle right before it.  I went out and bought Slaughterhouse 5 (Finally was actually on the shelf for sale...), The Man with no Country and.... something else by him as well.  Bought 2 Sanderson books to try out and Gathering Storm as well as the newish Kim Stanley Robinson (which might end up being a present for someone).

$220 in books and I got to carry home a few kilograms of books, but meh, worth it.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8135
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #451 on: November 04, 2009, 05:55:59 PM »
Lots of stuff to wrap up today!

The Hero of Ages

Finished this last week.

It wasn't, ultimately, as good as the first two books to me. It lacked the unique dynamic Kelsier brought to the first book (Kelsier and Vin stand above the rest of the cast) and the excellent themes and relationships of the second. Still, there was plenty to like about the conclusion of the series, including the ultimate resolution, which went down an unexpected yet sensible and forshadowed path, and the blossoming of the third, underused magic system of the world. Hemalurgy was at the centre of a couple of key plot twists one of which I was embarrassed to not realise earlier (the one related to Spook) and one of which gets mega points for cleverness (Vin's earring, the innocent keepsake, being a spike of Ruin and the source of Vin's enhanced bronze ability).

The stuff in Urteau (the north) was... mm. It really suffered from not having a strong character there; Spook was forced as a main, although I'm not really sure who could have played the part better there. The payoff was solid, but it took a long time to hook me, because part of me would go "Spook POV? zzzz..."

TenSoon perspectives were some of the most interesting in the first half of the book, neat to finally get a look at kandra culture and I was curious about the character after he impressed me in Book 2. I wish more had been done with him towards the ending, but so it goes.

Vin and Elend's story isn't immediately as interesting at first, partly because neither koloss nor Inquisitors are especially interesting antagonists. However, their story gets rolling once Yomen enters the picture. Yomen was certainly one of the pleasant surprises of the book, since he presents a very real and needed antagonist that would naturally have come about after the conclusion of Book 1, and his arguments and actions are compelling. Thoughtful and competent. The stuff with him and Vin and later Marsh was pretty much the book's climax, and made for a great scene.

Marsh got more screentime in this book. He mostly serves to give us an insight into the actions of the big bad, though the scene where he finally gets to exert his own will, however briefly, is certainly satisfying.

As a series overall, well, I obviously liked it quite a bit. As mentioned, I think Vin and Kelsier were both excellent characters. I also liked TenSoon and Elend (although yeah, I don't really think he should have been made Mistborn. Sanderson justifies it as being a way to show the reader how Mistborn came about, and notes that it doesn't actually change Elend too much, which is true. It's actually a rather nice touch that althought he becomes a very strong Mistborn, he's not a very good one, because Mistborn is more about training and tricks than strength. Still, I think I'd rather have had him be an atium Misting, so we could still have the cool bit at the end of the book, and he could think he had a useless power before then). Sazed... worked reasonably well, he's a pretty unusual character type and went through some different crises than is usual for a fantasy character, although the angst in Book 3 pushed my patience at times.

Beyond the decent character work, it had a solid setting and a very good magic system, the latter being super important to me because without magic systems you might as well read non-fantasy; I just dig them a lot. In the description, and detail, and hard-and-fast rules Sanderson gave Allomancy, there is a magic system more compelling and interesting than any I have read about save the One Power (and it has some advantages over that, even... it's even better-defined, and makes for some excellent fight scenes, something I think fantasy typically fails at). It's not perfect, but certainly ends up as one of my favourites.


The Gathering Storm

Finished this yesterday. (Note: I've hidden spoilers for Book 12 here, but not spoilers for the previous books.)

It's certainly a good book. I can't second Super's hype for it being the best in the series, for reasons I'll get to shortly, but it is certainly good. We really only have two major perspectives, but both are handled well, and both go in somewhat unexpected directions. Going into this book, we expect Rand to deal with Forsaken, and we expect Egwene to deal with Elaida. Their actual conflicts don't take them away from those, but they add another ripple.

In Rand's case, despite the fact that he offs TWO Forsaken in this book, that's not the main conflict. His arc is instead about him coming to terms with the darkness that has consumed him, his need to be hard and emotionless. We come so close to seeing where this leads him. The chapter where he almost kills Tam, and then the one where he almost destroys Ebou Dar is haunting... both are nothing short of haunting.

In Egwene's case, her story becomes about more than simply dethroning Elaida. It becomes clear early in the book that removing her won't be especially hard, even. Elaida has already lost so much face with her fellow Sisters that Egwene is able to make good headway. The difficulty becomes not seeing the Tower Aes Sedai as enemies at all. Egwene's story becomes not about control, but about uniting the tower, and healing the wounds in it.


There's a lot to like in those two story arcs. The flaws in the book come from the rest. The Mat and Perrin arcs both feel like they generally waste time. They don't take up too many pages, at least, but that's not really the point.

In Knife of Dreams, every single one of the major character arcs saw significant movement. Rand met and battled Semirhage, Egwene turned her imprisonment in the tower into a way to bring down Elaida, Mat's relationship with Tuon deepened ending in their marriage and his hunting down of Suroth's minions sent to kill her, Perrin finally resolved the damn Shaido arc, and Elayne secured the Lion Throne while eliminating her Black Ajah and Darkfriend guardsman spies and a large number of their allies.

So Book 12 only having major movement on two arcs is disappointing by comparison. Elayne is also absent entirely for the first time in the series... but I'm actually more forgiving of this since she has had more screentime than anyone else in recent books, and her arc reached a satisfying conclusion in Knife of Dreams, so it's more like Perrin's absence from Fires of Heaven than it is like Mat's absence from Path of Daggers. Still I'd obviously be happier if she had more of a role!

But yeah, back to the good, and that is certainly the Egwene arc and the Rand arc. Actually, this seems as good a time to get into...

Best scenes: (in order of occurence, rather than how good they are)


0. The end of Masema
I almost forgot this scene, which is why it's numbered 0. It's in the prologue, I can get away with it! We finally see Masema's thoughts, and he comes to a satisfying end. "Sometimes a wife must do what a husband can not", indeed.

1. Rand is chained by Semirhage and channels the True Power:
It's stock storytelling. Rand is caught unawares by Semi, who, in true fashion, tortures him the best way she knows by having him try to kill Min. In furious desperation, he channels the True Power, the power of the Dark One himself, as his only way out, killing Semirhage. It should be a victory, but instead the scene is very dark. Rand has channelled the True Power, something permitted only to servants of the Dark One, indicating the Dark One wanted this. And he is broken, as Min's efforts to soften him, which seemed to be working, are now at an end and he becomes near emotionless. He dismisses Cadsuane, who, bully though she is, is essential to Rand's survival. It's a victory for Rand, but one that we know has sent him down the wrong path, and it sets the stage for the rest of Rand's story.

2. Egwene vs. Elaida
Egwene has worked admirably to win over the support of many. She's impressed Silviana, the woman who spends a couple hours a day beating her at Elaida's order. She's impressed various Ajah Heads and Sitters, including the Black Ajah Hunters (Saerin et al.) and has learned of their hunt from them. Elaida finally forces Egwene into an outright confrontation here. It's a pathetic display for Elaida. Egwene is in the right, and everyone, readers and most characters, know it. Egwene blasts Elaida not for her grab of power, but for daring to let the Tower fall into ruin during her tenure, and it brings to a head Egwene's quiet war for the hearts and minds of the Tower. After the scene, there's little doubt Elaida is finished, and she never appears onscreen again except briefly as she is pulled to her karmic fate in the Seanchan attack.

3. Rand vs. Graendal
See Dhyer's comments. No Forsaken has had more screentime than Graendal save Ishamael, who is a different beast entirely. What Rand does, thus, is shocking. His explanation is suitable: "sit down to play the game, then punch your opponent in the face". It's probably the only way he could have dealt with Graendal. Perhaps it's fitting that he dealt with her during some of his darkest moments, the second and final time he truly unleashes the power of the Choeden Kal. Part of me feels it's a waste to get rid of Graendal like that; by comparison, Demandred and Mesaana still live and have very little character development (besides Dem's comic self-importance), but hey, that's part of why it works.

4. Verin
I don't really need to say more here. It's delightful to see that polite old woman give the Dark One the finger in such a way. The scene COULD have been better, like if we'd heard the wording of the Black Ajah oath of allegiance before (I don't think we had?) but it still works pretty darn well. Verin utterly betrays the Dark One and the Black Ajah. I liked her comments about how she and Tomas were both just looking for a way out, and Tomas, just like Verin herself, has taken his own life to escape. Still, it's a fitting conclusion to an often perplexing character, and explains her often curious actions very well.

5. Egwene fights off the Seanchan
Forkroot? No problem! The scene just highlights how resourceful Egwene can be. She has really learned the Tower well, and she knows, unlike most Aes Sedai, to look outside her own ranks. Linking with novices and using a sa'angreal in order to repel an invasion is unexpected and effective. It's more a stylish scene than anything else, but Egwene is due one after spending two books captive and being beaten, even if she was experiencing victories. Also, Elaida is carried off to her karmic fate. Jordan sure loves those.

6. Egwene takes control in Salidar
There's a lot to like here. Romanda and Lelaine, though humanised in recent books, are both threatening to take control. Egwene had to come back and take a firm hand, and she does just that. Her leadership in this scene is commanding. Armed with the Oath Rod and the list of Black Ajah names, she does what has needed to be done for a long time, and runs with the Black Ajah hunters' plot on a leadership level. Sheriam meets her end, and you can't help but feel a bit sorry for her as she realises she is going to be the Dark One's eternal plaything even in death.

7. Egwene's acceptance speech as Amyrlin
I said these scenes were ordered by appearance, because I find it easier to talk about them this way. The other reason is because I have trouble ranking them. However, I will say this: this is my favourite scene in the book.

Egwene takes no prisoners here. She reminds everyone that mistakes have been made, reminds everyone that allowing this fracturing to happen is the last thing the world needed. She attacks even those who we would consider good characters. She doesn't spare Siuan, nor her own followers who raised her, nor the Sitters such as Seaine and Saerin who hunted the Black Ajah then supported her. At the same time, she reaches out to everyone, even naming a Red her Keeper. She forces the Tower to contront its future of dealing with the Dragon Reborn and the Last Battle, and forces them to face the fact that reconcilation with the other faction may be painful. But damned if she doesn't make them, and the reader, believe that it is what must be happen, and that the White Tower isn't about to be the strongest it has ever been. The sword will be reforged, indeed.

Side note, the Black Ajah leaves this book in ruins, but I'm surprised just how many there were. Explains where a lot of the Tower rot came from, but one can't help but wonder why so many Black Sisters couldn't accomplish more. Meanwhile, with the remnants of Liandrin's group, along with Galina, dealt with in Book 11, and Sheriam and the majority of minor Black Ajah sisters dealt with in this book, there aren't many left... but Jordan made a point of some of the key names escaping. Alviarin and Katerine chief among them, though other escapees have been dropped. And two Forsaken still have their hands in that group. Safe to say we haven't seen the last of them.

8. Rand almost kills Tam
Rand is seriously fucked up. There's little to say about this scene. It's touching to finally see Tam and Rand meet again, and it serves as a highlight to how crazy Rand has gone that he almost kills his father. It's understandable that Rand doesn't like being manipulated, but... holy fuck. The scene just... works, as an illustration. The Ebou Dar scene shortly after has the same effect, but it's less personal, so it doesn't work quite as well... except it shows what Rand is capable of at the moment, even when he is being "rational".

9. Rand laughs
Narrowly averting two disasters, Rand runs away to think. It's almost too convenient that he comes to the realisation he has to on his own, but perhaps it's the way it had to be. He had built his walls so high that nobody could reach him. I thought it would be Tam, but nope. Still, seeing his father likely gave him the push he needed. Rand remembers the good things he has lived for, and remembers what makes life worth living. And he finally realises that, obsessed over Ilyena as Lews Therin is, the only thing he can do for her now is to ensure the Pattern continues so that her rebirth is assured. As Rand regains his senses, we are treated to the resolution of the Lews Therin arc, and the confirmation that yes, Lews Therin IS nothing more than a voice in Rand's head. Rand had been insane, but now, at last, he is on the road to healing. It'll be interesting to see how Rand has turned the corner in Book 13.

Destroying the Choeden Kal seems almost secondary to the scene. I'm not entirely sure why he did it. Perhaps he saw the massive power as too much temptation to simply destroy when the Dragon Reborn's job is so much more. He did almost use it to destroy the Seanchan when this was something he could not afford to do, just because his attempts to bludgeon them failed.

I liked how the book painted some sympathetic people on opposite sides, here. Tuon's scenes deserve note as an effective small arc. She's sympathetic, yet stands up to the Dragon Reborn and sends her armies against the White Tower. Granted, it's been strongly forshadowed that the Seanchan are here to stay and the southwest is going to be permanently under their control (Beslan swearing to Tuon is strong evidence) so making a rocky peace with the White Tower is likely in the cards somewhere. Interesting to see how that plays out, given how opposed the two naturally are.


Whoops, went on there longer than I should have. Oh well!

Best characters
1. Egwene. Yeah if you've read the spoilers, you know this was an easy pick.
2. Rand. I enjoyed his personal struggle in this book.
3. Verin. One scene is just one scene, but this was one pretty badass scene.
4. Gareth Bryne. Didn't get a chance to hype him in the above, but seeing him through Gawyn's eyes brought out another side of him, and I liked his interaction with Siuan.
5. Silviana. Egwene has to win over a lot of people in this book. By screentime alone, Silviana is probably the most convincing. And yeah, implied Elaida ownage is badass.

Good book. Not as good as Knife of Dreams, but I'll have to decide exactly where it falls compared to Books 4, 5, and 9. Sanderson's handiwork can be seen on it (characters are more introspective, focus on fewer, stronger arcs), but for the most part, the mixing of his style and Jordan's worked well. I do have a slight complaint about how Sanderson keeps changing perspectives but ultimately it's not that big a deal.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #452 on: November 04, 2009, 06:34:09 PM »
Think the book is third in the series for me. (Book 5>2>12>11>4? Hell, I can't remember the specific order but those are easily the best five in the series, with Eye of the world on their heels and everything else behind.)

Perrin/Mat/Elayne not being in the book much at all feels like a reflection of the way Memory of Light was split. That doesn't bother me much persay. Ultimately why 12 gets so high is that for the first time since book 7, Rand is a focal point rather than a side show. (Hell you can argue book 6 as well, Ebou Dar dominates crown of swords). Egwene's PoV badly, badly needed that as well. 

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

AAA

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1348
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #453 on: November 05, 2009, 03:56:56 AM »
The Gathering Storm:

I'll make no bones about it. The Gathering Storm is my favorite WoT book. Easily. I very much prefer Sanderson's style to Jordan and he took the previously established storyline and ran with it. Extremely pleased with the results and that he's at the helm for the last two books.

Not going to write an essay about my favorites scenes and such but as far as I'm concerned the Holy Shit Quotient went through the roof. The big scene with Rand at the end was very well done, and I'm relieved since I always thought that particular scene, when it came, would involve gallons of melodrama and sappiness. Generally just had the shit is getting done feel of the last book but turned to eleven. I don't care very much about it only being two plot threads since they are easily the most important of the bunch in my opinion and involves the better characters.

My theory is that Book 13 will be based on Elayne and everybody else that sort of got the short shaft this time around, and then the last book will be the usual 'everybody gets together, last few plot threads are tied up, Forces of Evil beware' that is every finale.

Say...if someone who has keeping track would oblige me, what's the current tally on Forsaken still alive? Assuming that everybody people think have died are actually dead and weren't red herrings or whatever.
Don't think of it as a novel. Think of it as a chance to retroactively win every argument you have ever walked away from.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8135
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #454 on: November 05, 2009, 05:51:40 AM »
SPOILERS, obviously!
.
.
.
.

Still alive: Six. Moridin (Ishamael), his servents Cyndane (Lanfer) and Moghedien, as well as Aran'gar (man in woman's body), Demandred (full of himself), and Mesaana (crazy teacher).


Casualties:
1. Be'lal got balefired by Moriaine in Tear.
2, Rahvin got balefired by Rand in Caemlyn.
3. Asmodean got murdered, possibly balefired, by someone, possibly Graendal (or maybe Bela). Regardless, he's not coming back.
4. Sammael got eaten by Mashadar in Shadar Lagoth. He'd betrayed the Dark One's orders and isn't coming back, as such.
5. Osan'gar, the artist formerly known as Aginor, got killed by Elza Penfell, Black Ajah, wielding Callandor.
6. Semirhage got balefired by Rand in Arad Doman.
7. Graendal met the same fate as Semirhage, only hers was SUPERCHARGED.

.
.
.
.
.
END OF SPOILERS

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #455 on: November 09, 2009, 05:20:20 AM »
Quote
3. Asmodean got murdered, possibly balefired, by someone, possibly Graendal (or maybe Bela). Regardless, he's not coming back.

I'm pretty damn sure it's Graendal. Brief rehash (I've babbled about this before), just randomly reread the end of the fires of heaven after browsing Jordan quote sites last night.

The clues from Jordan: The dark one couldn't revive Asmodean, both for where he died and how he did. We can also figure it based on fires of heaven.

A: Mogheiden outright says that Grendael is in Andor that day with Lanfear/Rahvin as part of the trap. B: Rand's hurt after leaving the world of dreams. Someone else was interfering in his battle with Rahvin, the things Rahvin did were reversed. Not the fish cuts and some of the other things that happened there in the world of dreams though. C: Asmodean knew the person. He did know Slayer! But this would be odd, as Slayer isn't in the book and we get no clue outside of random Jordan comments that the two did know each other.  And seriously, slayer randomly appearing to kill Asmodean out of the clear blue sky would be a bad joke. He gets owned hard at the end of book 4, and doesn't appear again until much later.  D: Pretty sure the where part is related to the world of dreams.

I don't see how anyone else fits. Lanfear's busy and the rest of the forsaken are scrubs.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 01:25:50 AM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #456 on: November 14, 2009, 11:03:31 PM »
Re-reading Battletech's Blood of Kerensky trilogy for the first time in forever. It's amusing how dated it is in it's sci-fi. Quasi-hard sci-fi based on 80's technology, basically. Character work is still good, cause it's Michael Stackpole when he's really trying (which he stops doing, literally, in the middle of Malicious Intent). Does a really good job of completely mapping out an alien society through Phelan. The dualism in Victor and Hohiro's characters was always interesting. Shame Sun-Tzu Liao doesn't start being relevent until way after this. Laughing at the faux-Japanese in the Combine parts is still great.

I still wonder how easy it would be for someone to get into who isn't knowledgable of at least some of the Battletech history. Every single book at least tries inform you of the basics, but there's really just too much to the universe to really just pick this up. I would guess at least The Warrior trilogy would be good before this, even if it's not really as good. The context of the 4th Succession War is pretty important to keep in mind even in BoK, even if it doesn't cover stuff like the true depth of the Kurita/Davion rivalry. BoK does enough to explain that though and there's always the glossary in the back for information.

If you liked Stackpole's X-Wing stuff, BoK is worth checking out since it's far better than any of them, even if most of the other Battletech books aren't.

Anthony Edward Stark

  • Is that... Alcohol?
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4347
    • View Profile
    • Modern Drunkard Magazine
Re: Books
« Reply #457 on: November 16, 2009, 12:14:03 AM »
Having recently re-read the Warrior trilogy, Soppy, I will point out something I noticed.

There is not a single named Capellan combatant anywhere in the trilogy, and no scenes ever play out from the PoV of a member of the CCAF. It really makes their entire army come off like a bunch of faceless mooks. Also he spends an obnoxious amount of time pointing out ways that other states are inferior to the FedSuns, but never even touches the reverse. Most notably, he has Melissa Steiner do this once, which is fucking annoying.

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #458 on: November 16, 2009, 01:00:09 AM »
I'm not surprised at the former. None really do until Coleman came out with the books about the warrior houses. That said, outside their insanity, none of the Liaos outside of Sun-Tzu were ever interesting anyway, including Candace. If Candace had been smart or interesting, she'd have fucking killed Sun-Tzu when she had the chance.

The latter I'd suspected, but never payed attention enough to confirm. It makes sense in the context of the trilogy since otherwise the feat accomplished seems even more absurd. He breaks out of it by the time BoK rolls around, since Hanse had been humbled by the War of 3039.

Anthony Edward Stark

  • Is that... Alcohol?
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4347
    • View Profile
    • Modern Drunkard Magazine
Re: Books
« Reply #459 on: November 16, 2009, 06:33:29 AM »
I'm not surprised at the former. None really do until Coleman came out with the books about the warrior houses. That said, outside their insanity, none of the Liaos outside of Sun-Tzu were ever interesting anyway, including Candace. If Candace had been smart or interesting, she'd have fucking killed Sun-Tzu when she had the chance.

Shit, they didn't even have to be Liaos. They could have cut all of Redburn's page time and replaced it with some Capellan MechWarrior who serves in the CRC, constantly being beaten, falling back and trying to figure out what's going on, and it would have maybe given the impression that the Capellans might not lose every single fight that this one dude personally gets in to, at least. The way Stackpole did it, I was expecting to see "You won! Got 50 xp and 22 gold!" at the end of every battle scene, that's how irrelevant they seem.

Quote
The latter I'd suspected, but never payed attention enough to confirm. It makes sense in the context of the trilogy since otherwise the feat accomplished seems even more absurd. He breaks out of it by the time BoK rolls around, since Hanse had been humbled by the War of 3039.

He doesn't. He has Theodore Kurita talk about how Hanse Davion attacks the Combine to strike blows for "freedom and equality" in Blood Legacy.

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #460 on: November 16, 2009, 06:45:11 AM »
I'm not surprised at the former. None really do until Coleman came out with the books about the warrior houses. That said, outside their insanity, none of the Liaos outside of Sun-Tzu were ever interesting anyway, including Candace. If Candace had been smart or interesting, she'd have fucking killed Sun-Tzu when she had the chance.

Shit, they didn't even have to be Liaos. They could have cut all of Redburn's page time and replaced it with some Capellan MechWarrior who serves in the CRC, constantly being beaten, falling back and trying to figure out what's going on, and it would have maybe given the impression that the Capellans might not lose every single fight that this one dude personally gets in to, at least. The way Stackpole did it, I was expecting to see "You won! Got 50 xp and 22 gold!" at the end of every battle scene, that's how irrelevant they seem.

Fair enough. Not that there's anything wrong with Andy Redburn, honestly, but that would've made a better book.


The latter I'd suspected, but never payed attention enough to confirm. It makes sense in the context of the trilogy since otherwise the feat accomplished seems even more absurd. He breaks out of it by the time BoK rolls around, since Hanse had been humbled by the War of 3039.

He doesn't. He has Theodore Kurita talk about how Hanse Davion attacks the Combine to strike blows for "freedom and equality" in Blood Legacy.

I'm pretty much to the end of the Outreach segment and I haven't seen that.

Anthony Edward Stark

  • Is that... Alcohol?
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4347
    • View Profile
    • Modern Drunkard Magazine
Re: Books
« Reply #461 on: November 16, 2009, 07:37:11 AM »
It's when the Hounds and Dragoons come to Luthien. Theodore is like "When he attacked us, we saw greed for our worlds, but Hanse was doing it because he believed he was fighting for freedom and equality!" And as Stackpole illustrates repeatedly, whatever Hanse Davion thinks is right.

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #462 on: November 16, 2009, 07:49:11 AM »
I'll keep a look out for it.

And not entirely true. Hanse also thinks the occasional numbness in the left arm is a common condition below the attention of a doctor.

I keep forgetting how awkward the dialogue is sometimes. I guess he manages to make it better in Natural Selection and Assumption of Risk (probably his best character work), but by Bred for War he kinda goes on the backslide again for the crash at Malicious Intent.

EDIT: Also, in the scene where Kai and Deirdre are talking about the Court thing where Romano was badgering her, she mentions she couldn't hate Kai because "the worst officer in the universe was in the room", which made me wonder how badly Romano would have been thrown off her game if Deirdre had shared her hate for Justin Allard with her. I think Romano's head would've exploded.

EDIT2: Finally found the quote you're referring to. Teddy also calls him stupid and foolish for harboring such notions. He's more trying to prove a point about the flipside of motivations to ridiculously stupid officers.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 10:10:19 AM by Hunter Sopko »

Dhyerwolf

  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #463 on: November 17, 2009, 06:04:14 AM »
Feasts of Souls (CS Friedman)- So far, a big improvement over her previous fantasy trilogy. 2 of 3 books in, and the first isn't a complete plot rehash of the second! Although, feels like it makes a much, much, much better use of it's good setup (Which...I guess isn't hard, given that it was one of the Coldfire Trilogy's downfall on several accounts). That said...the length...where the fuck is the rest of the book? Yeah, a bad fantasy writer can get away with a 400 page book, but in this case, it feels like it's not remotely enough (If this was not a trilogy, this would be a completely different story, but there feels like there is way too much I'd want the final book to cover unless Friedman wants to again ignore a good chunk of the things she could do with the story).
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #464 on: November 28, 2009, 06:07:01 PM »
Eye of the world- Finished rereading. 

The best scenes in the book are less character work and more Jordan showing off his world. This is the only real look you get at the Blight in the entire series (Which is a shame). Jordan really excels at selling a journey. One things the books lost after Fires of Heaven was that sense of exploration. It's somewhat of a shame. Other things of note: The Forsaken are off to an impressive start here! Balthamel gets owned by a living tree and Agnior is so greedy and overconfident that he has the Eye of the world ripped away from him because the moron left Rand alive. Good work. The Forsaken's pattern of being completely owned by their own idiotic blind spots starts early in the books.


1. Fleeing from the two rivers
2. Travelling through the Blight
3. Rand and Mat travel through Andor
4. Rand controlling the Eye of the World
5. Travelling through the ways.

Rand meeting Morgase is up there, Thom biting it, Shadar Logoth, etc.

Best characters:

1. Rand
2. Nynaeve
3. Moiraine
4. Lan
5. Thom

Nothing shocking. Perrin/Egwene are boring as sin, Mat barely exists. Thom gets a good deal of character exposition done and works well as a mentor for the boys, specifically Rand. No change from the last time I've read the books.  Rand is Rand. Nynaeve is utterly fearless. She runs away from home, tracks down the boys, and swears to do what she can to help them. She hasn't altered a whit from this plan in twelve books, even if some details change. She even treats Rand exactly the same in book 12 as she does in book 1, and no one else can claim that. It's just neat to see the foundation layed there.  Moiraine owns as always and Lan's backstory is told here. He has decent interaction with Nynaeve as well.


This book has some problems with the pacing. The Egwene/Perrin stuff drags on for way too long and the setup goes on for way too long. I was talking to Tonfa about the books, and he's 200 pages in. That is dead smack in the middle of Barelon.  The Great Hunt is much better, and benefits from starting at a very cool setting.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8135
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #465 on: November 29, 2009, 01:44:19 AM »
I disagree with scene #4 being good (always found it too bizarre, though that is the point, since Rand doesn't understand what he's doing) or Thom having much worth (we've been over this before), but I didn't mind the Perrin stuff as much as you. It's not the best, but it's real development for the guy, something Mat and Egwene both completely fail to get.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #466 on: November 29, 2009, 01:58:00 AM »
The Perrin stuff just is boring as hell on a reread. I liked it the first time I was through the book, but it drags badly on a reread. Go away Whitecloaks.

The EotW scene wasn't something I liked the last time I was through. I just rather enjoyed the shades of later Rand when he wipes out the trollocs and struggles to remember who he is. Just stuck with me. It bears repeating, but the Forsaken suck. The more competent of the duo got killed by the Jolly Green Giant. Ishy getting cut up was sad, but he isn't really playing to win at that point.  It's a tribute to the backstory of the world and how well jordan writes that they can still be threats. (Lanfear especially, her chemistry with Rand is great. Oddly enough I am also going to say Rahvin, he was barely in the books but him taking over Andor had a ton of impact.)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Clear Tranquil

  • Garden of Innocence
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2331
  • Your dreams shatter and burn! Punishing! Blossom!
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #467 on: November 30, 2009, 02:14:38 PM »
My sister immediately bought three Twilight books and devoured two of them after seeing the New Moon movie on Thursday >.> She's working on the third and buying the fourth <.< She also watched the Twilight movie before going to see New Moon. In English class.
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #468 on: November 30, 2009, 02:25:04 PM »
She's 16, it is the right age for it.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2189
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #469 on: November 30, 2009, 06:08:48 PM »
She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 06:11:55 PM by Random Consonant »

Captain K.

  • Do you even...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2176
  • ...lift books bro?
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #470 on: November 30, 2009, 07:06:58 PM »
The Gathering Storm:  Good stuff.  Everyone else has pretty much covered how I feel about it.  Do like Sanderson's writing much more than Jordan's, and you can tell which of them wrote what.  "He stepped onto the green, which was not green at all..."

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5562
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: Books
« Reply #471 on: November 30, 2009, 10:04:01 PM »
16?  Might want to set fire to that fourth book, by all accounts.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #472 on: November 30, 2009, 10:48:58 PM »
She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

Ahem.

Quote from: CT
She also watched the Twilight movie before going to see New Moon. In English class.

The United Kingdom education system disagrees with you.

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Lady Door

  • Coming up with words is, like...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
  • ... really hard.
    • View Profile
Re: Books
« Reply #473 on: November 30, 2009, 11:30:57 PM »
Currently on page 537 of The Gathering Storm.

You could DEFINITELY tell Sanderson wrote the prologue. It was night and day. I have a slightly harder time picking out "Sanderson" in the rest of the novel, but the interactions feel a bit less forced than Jordan's and I believe character was something Sanderson really got into in his own work. You can tell this was written by a SUPERFAN, but it's not overbearing and it doesn't stretch credulousness.

Andrew made a comment that made me smirk, though: SANDERSON is writing the ENDING?
<Demedais> Humans look like cars to me.
<AndrewRogue> That must be confusing in parking lots

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5562
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: Books
« Reply #474 on: December 01, 2009, 12:02:49 AM »
I was under the impression that the last few chapters were written by Jordan before he passed, myself.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.