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Social Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: Captain K. on January 07, 2008, 09:52:14 PM

Title: Books
Post by: Captain K. on January 07, 2008, 09:52:14 PM
Still no Books topic on the new board?  Huh.

Eye of the World:  So I'm reading this and thinking, "This sounds familiar.  This sounds *really* familiar."  Then I realize.  The beginning of Eragon is exactly the same, event for event.  Way to be a massive ripoff, Eragon.

Anyway, after I got to some parts I hadn't read before, it was pretty good.  A bit too reliant on coincidences for my tastes, but I guess that's kind of the point with the "Web".
Title: Re: Books
Post by: CompmanJX3 on January 08, 2008, 02:02:30 AM
I knew something was missing.  Winter break reading:

Shadow of the Hegemon - I read (or attempted) the original Ender saga when I was in like sixth grade.  Probably a bad idea.  Ender's Game I found (and still find) awesome, but the others were over my head, I think.  I should probably reread them.  That said, the Bean saga, two books in, is more fun.  More political intrigue, more action, less aliens.

Rendezvous with Rama - Awesome.  2001 was my first exposure to Clarke, and it was awesome, but I like this a lot more.  The eeriness of the whole thing and the vivid pictures it allows the imagination to form are just awesome.  I've only read two of his books now, but Clarke is damn good at suspense, it seems.  I need to read more of his stuff.

The Left Hand of Darkness - Pretty strange novel, but good job by Leguin characterizing such a completely different world and its response to the arrival of a human "envoy".  Got a little boring during the trek across the ice, but that's far enough into the novel that you're already hooked.  Great writing, but not as much fun as the other things I've read recently.

Watchmen - I don't usually read graphic novels, mostly because I'm too impatient to pay much attention to the pictures, so I kind of have to force myself.  But I heard this was pretty much the best so I picked it up.  Good decision on my part.  The story is awesome and the characters are even more awesome.  Rorschach is pretty much the most badass person ever.  I'm not a huge fan of comic book artwork from an aesthetic perspective, but the way Moore and Gibbons integrate the art with the text, especially with regards to the "comic book within a comic book", is phenomenal
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 08, 2008, 07:36:27 AM
Most things by Alan Moore are a cut above the usual chaffe Comp.  Look up V.

I have not been reading and this is pathetic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on January 08, 2008, 11:20:28 AM
Mostly good stuff there, Compman. Ender's Game is excellent, but I'd say don't bother rereading the sequels. They get progressively less interesting as time goes on.

Rendezvous With Rama is indeed a lot of fun, but the series gets more strung out and unfocused as it proceeds. If you really liked it (as did I), you might want to try the second for the same sense of mystery (and some funky aliens). Exploring the ship really is a lot of fun. Unfortunately, like many series that get their effectiveness from keeping you wondering, it's less than rewarding once you actually get answers. Rama, unfortunately, wraps up with one of the lamest and most literal deus ex machinas I've ever encountered. It's best not to go past the first one or two books.

Also seconding everything you said about The Left Hand of Darkness (and adding nothing more, because at least Le Guin had the good sense to not expand her standalone book into a series!)

Watchmen does indeed kick ass. Pick up more of Moore's stuff if you liked it that much, as he is indeed that much groovier than other comic book fare. V for Vendetta should be next, as Grefter noted, but I am also quite fond of Top Ten (a very fun, cast-driven series set in a city populated entirely by superheroes. Sends up a lot of the familiar archetypes while paying homage to them. Even if you don't dig that angle, the characters are awesome).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 08, 2008, 11:55:01 AM
Moore tends to work with archetypes and flesh them out into full bodied characters I find.  Everything in Watchmen is an archetype, so is pretty much everything in V.  I don't think you can get more cliched than Captain Marvel/Miracle Man (which I have not read) and Swamp Thing by all fairness should have been a really tired old plot by the time Moore got his hands on it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on January 09, 2008, 01:36:52 AM
Yep, this is one of the reasons I like the guy so much. I appreciate seeing someone who obviously grew up on a medium analyze it so thoroughly that they can honor all the old tropes while breathing new life into them (see Cave Story for a videogame example!)

Aaaanyway, I'm picking up the massive Discworld reread again for obvious reasons. I'd stopped at Carpe Jugulum on account of not liking it much the first time through. Still think it's one of the weakest books, but "bad" Pratchett is still quality work. On Fifth Elephant now. Yay, Vimes! Probably my least favorite of the Watch books, but still entertaining.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: ThePiggyman on January 09, 2008, 02:09:25 AM
Got some books for Christmas (The Thief Lord, Dragon Rider and Inkheart), and I've started to read them.

The Thief Lord - So far, a good book. I very much Prosper and Bo, and the gang of children in hiding all have their charms. Don't know a whole lot about the Thief Lord himself yet, but Prosper's getting into the stealing business, so maybe soon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 09, 2008, 06:43:31 AM
Been reading a biography of Einstein recently. Screw fiction! Anyway, it's a pretty interesting read - the science is naturally fascinating to me, but the politicals and personality of the man himself and how they shaped him, and hence modern science in general, is neat. It's pretty heavy and I'm not a fast reader, though, so it'll take a while.

Other than that, WoT reread is stopped in Book 7, which is familiar territory for me. Never did write a summary of Book 6, oh well. I'm also looking at picking up the new Robin Hobb trilogy at some point, given that eight of the nine of her books that I've read rank among my favourite fantasy titles.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on January 10, 2008, 08:22:23 PM
Dreamsongs:  Eh.  It's all right.  Some of his older short stories aren't that good, but they are just that:  his older short stories.  Enjoy the parts about R.R. Martin's life, at least.

Dance of Dragons needs to come out already.  I demand more Tyrion.

EDIT:  NEB, what's the title of the Einstein Biography?  It sounds like something I might want to pick up at some point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 10, 2008, 10:07:57 PM
Einstein: His Life and Universe, by Walter Isaacson.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: IhatethisCPU on January 11, 2008, 08:02:25 PM
>_>

Rereading the Discworld series(Skipping Eric), the HGttG Trilogy, and books one and two of Melanie Rawn's Exile Trilogy.

Trying to find my collection of P.G. Wodehouse novels. Having no luck whatsoever.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: BaconForTheSoul on January 13, 2008, 01:28:57 AM
Gunslinger, part of the Dark Tower series by King.

Umm... it was really boring.  The pace was slow, the plot was mehish, and not really a fan of the style King wrote with in this one.  However, in his forward he even said that book 1 is unlike the rest in every way, and although he didn't say it outright I think he didn't like book one.  Guess this means I have to give book 2 a shot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on January 16, 2008, 04:35:32 PM
Opened Fortune's Fool last night around 10:30 PM. Closed it around 4:00 AM. Hadn't read anything new in awhile, so kinda amused to see that my old habits of "Open Book->ignore everything until book is finished->look at clock and blink as I try to figure out how it got so late" are still in place.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Twilkitri on January 16, 2008, 08:54:09 PM
Out of interest, does anyone here read Tom Holt at all?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 16, 2008, 08:58:00 PM
Only Paint Your Dragon and Open Sesame so far, but I liked them a good deal.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Twilkitri on January 20, 2008, 09:45:46 PM
I've read 10 of them, and they range from mehish to pretty good. Haven't read either of those so I'll have to look at getting them some time.

Of the ones I've read, Odds and Gods would have to be the worst. Unsure of which I'd call the best, but My Hero, Flying Dutch, and Expecting Someone Taller are up there. I'd include Valhalla in that except it's been years since I read it so I might be thinking it's better than it actually is (also I don't even remember if that's the actual name of it).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: BaconForTheSoul on January 21, 2008, 04:35:14 PM
Read 3 Laymon's in 3 days.  Darkness Tell Us, After Midnight, and the Beast House.  Most recent one from like '97 or something like that.  Standard Laymon.  People die, people have sex, couple of plot twists, etc.  Keeps me interested, but I think I'm about ready to read Book 2 of the Dark Tower series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on January 22, 2008, 04:40:14 AM
So I finished A Game of Thrones and will be moving on to the rest of the Ice & Fire series in short order.

The writing style is fantastic, kept me turning pages and reading instead of skimming.  The content, on the other hand... the book cut off at a very unsatisfying spot, and what did go on was pretty much standard, predictable fare.  After 800 pages, nothing was resolved except for developments that were painfully obvious in the first 100 pages.  Hopefully the rest of the series won't be quite as predictable, but I'm not betting on it.

Predictions for future books:
- Cat dies, Sansa sacrifices herself for something, Robb may die late in the series, the other Starks (and Snow) survive.
- Tywin is the only Lannister at serious risk of death in the near future (next book).  Cersei and probably Jaime will survive entirely too long.  Joffrey will die before they do.  Tyrion will live to the end of the series.
- Stannis will come in and rock a lot of face, but ultimately fail, though possibly only in the last book.  His biggest threat is the incoming southern horde.
- The next book will focus on Renly a fair bit and he will likely be dead by the end of it.
- Benjen is alive and hanging out with Jim Raynor or whatever the outlaw king's name is.  He may not be alive for too long after Jon finds him, though.
- The source of the wights will never be fully explained.
- Daenerys will survive for a long time, possibly to the end.
- There will be an unlikely alliance between one of the far northern and one of the far southern factions.
- The Hound will redeem himself.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 22, 2008, 07:43:06 AM
Ooooh interesting predictions Al.  Very interesting in the places where you are correct on the rough parts of the events but not quite on what takes part in them.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on January 23, 2008, 04:52:04 AM
Read the prologue of Clash of Kings.  Forget everything I said about Stannis, he's a jerk.  Way to ruin the hype everyone laid on him in the first book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 23, 2008, 12:57:43 PM
Yyyyep, my thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on January 25, 2008, 05:34:13 AM
Finished up the Otherworld series. Generally badass, and the ending came together really well. Did a good job at sustaining the momentum for several books, and seeing all the created worlds was pretty cool (The giant house one was my favorite, I think). The books were all nice and thick, and the protaginists were quite interesting for the most part.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on January 25, 2008, 09:30:57 AM
Agreed on some points, Dhyer (the giant house world was awesome). Not so much on the ending, though. Did *spoilers* really have to come back? Fun series overall, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 25, 2008, 11:50:44 AM
I need to finish that series, but the massive bulk of the books kind of put me off them.  I tried to get through book 2 but the books actually manage to be of size that even as a fairly avid reader who will chew throw some mind boggling sized books and series, I just had enough of the author and the book 3/4 of the way through.  They were good books and the first one really blew me away, just no way I could continue reading it.  They are just enormous books.

Edit - Let me rephrase that.  They are "Oh shit I stayed up reading all night it is 6 in the morning" good while also only having got through 1/4 of the book where that under normal circumstances gets you one almost finished.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Yakumo on January 26, 2008, 12:33:39 AM
Heh.  I kinda feel the same as Grefter.  I've actually managed to get through the first three, just haven't gotten around to finishing the fourth.  They're just too big to sit down and casually read, I guess.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on January 26, 2008, 01:44:33 AM
I liked the massive size of the books. Since I usually read an hour before falling asleep, it meant that I wasn't needing new reading fodder constantly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on February 05, 2008, 10:11:11 PM
Well, finished Feast for Crows.  Somewhat disappointing, the direction feels quite lost by this point and Martin leans too heavily on cliffhangers, tricks and sex to hold my interest most of the time.  Where I started the first book inhaling every word, by the end of the fourth I'm skimming chapters to get to the obligatory surprise/dramatic moment I know is at the end of them. 

The format and writing are both heavily character-centric, which alternately helps and hurts.  Introducing Jaime as a narrarator is the most awesome thing to happen in the series, and he's the most interesting character by far at this point.  I'm not actually sure whether his ending in Crows is a trick or not, where I've been sure on all other supposed cliffhangers.  Jon, Arya and Tyrion are also neat - shame they were mostly left out of Crows.  A chapter with a good narrator is usually guaranteed awesome. 

On the other hand, too many characters are boring, unlikeable, or both.  Something like a third of Crows is spent on revealing the Greyjoy and Dorne subplots through the eyes of a host of minor characters we've never heard of before and likely never will hear from again.  No attachment, and no real interest in those subplots, either - they seem pretty much irrelevant to everything else going on.

Daenerys has the same problem, of course, but at least it's obvious she's going to wreak some havoc and meet all the other main characters before the series finishes.  It looks like Dorne may be her link in there, but the Greyjoys don't even have that.  Blarg. 

The plot itself... well, it does actually move, albeit glacially, has its flashes of awesome, and there are real honest to goodness dragons.  Props for that. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 10, 2008, 12:27:42 AM
Brandon Sanderson- Mistborn. Decided to pick this up since he's the one semi-ghost writing the final WoT. Good book, interesting premise. Definetely awaiting when the sequel comes out in paperback.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: BaconForTheSoul on February 11, 2008, 05:21:19 AM
The Mammoth Encyclopedia of the Unsolved-  Discusses TONS of random unsolved/mysteries of the world.  Atlantis, Man in Iron Mask, Agatha Christie, etc.  There's like 65 different chapters each with a focus.  It's a fun read and pretty informative at time, the problem is that after about 3 chapters the author ignores being unbiased.

Initially the chapters discuss possible things that could have happened, and then gives evidence for an against.  Later on though, the author decides that certain things are "fact," such as Poltergeists, Ghosts, Psychics, etc.   This kind of kills half the chapters because his own silly views skew them.  Lines like "There are too many eyewitness to even begin to ignore _________________"  (Insert Loch Ness Monster, Ghosts, etc.)

That may have been plausible back in 2000 when he wrote the book, but in the age of cell phone cameras... shit that can get caught on camera WILL.  1000 people have eyewitness accounts of "seeing" the Loch Ness Monster, yet no one got a good picture?  I'd wager that everyone who fucking goes to the Loch brings a camera, so wtf.  More examples, but you all get the idea.

The chapters on the non paranormal are fun.  Discussing a different Mona Lisa, Agatha Christie's insanity, who the Man in the Iron Mask might be, and so on is actually interesting, and I'll finish the book because of it.  As for him criticizing scientists for not keeping an open mind about the paranormal.  Meh, without a picture eyewitness accounts don't mean jack shit to me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ultradude on February 11, 2008, 05:39:58 AM
Aldous Huxley - Brave New World.

Yeah, 1930's version of the "happy communism" that people seem to like these days. Anyways, a bit extreme at some points, lacking a middle ground between the extremes of society and the "savages", but he himself acknowledges this in the forward. Pleasant read though with some nice satire and predictions that are prevalent even nowadays. Characters were pretty cool, and Hux's writing style is solid and to the point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 12, 2008, 04:40:03 AM
Late in catching up with this topic, but...

For all that we have pretty much reversed opinions on some of the chapters (Dorne >>>> Jon; the absence of the north entirely is why Feast is either my favourite or second favourite book in the series), Alex pretty well puts a finger on a lot of my problems with ASoIaF.

(Spoiler warning)

Also, zuh? I've never even considered the idea that Jaime might be dead after that scene. And I was fooled by some of the others... well, at the very least, I was fooled by Theon's in book 2.

EDIT: Never mind, I was confusing Jaime's book 4 ending with Brienne's. I've... honestly forgotten how Jaime's entry to that book ended. Can someone remind me?

ALSO EDIT: Of course, since a major character has yet to die in one of those ambiguous "death" scenes (Jaime book 2, Arya book 3, Davos book 2, Theon book 2, etc.), it is possible I am just completely desensitised by Martin's overuse of the mechanic to the point where a character dying in such a way would now completely shock me. I bet that's his plan. <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on February 12, 2008, 04:54:02 AM
(More spoilers!)

Jaime's cliffhanger is whether or not he's actually going to go back and fight for Cersei.  He tells them to toss her letter in the fire, like he isn't going to go... but he might anyway.  I'll bet you're right about there being an actual jarring death, though if it's Davos (Feast mentions him being killed offstage several times) I'll be quite sad.  Oh, and don't forget The Many Deaths of Bran. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on February 12, 2008, 09:55:57 AM
Theon had a fake maybe death in Book 2?  Uh.  Could have sworn he died for real there.  Unless you're not talking about his final chapter?

Also, Bran is Tower of Salvation.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 14, 2008, 09:49:29 PM
(spoilers continued)

Theon survives that chapter and is taken prisoner by Crazy Bolton Jr. As of yet this hasn't been a very important plot point, since Theon's own countrymen turn their back on him following it and we haven't seen Crazy Bolton Jr. since, though presumably SOMEBODY is going to have to go kick his ass out of Winterfell sooner or later.

Alex: Right, forgot that. Not sure what to make of that either.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on February 14, 2008, 10:30:24 PM
(Even more spoilers)

I thought that was covered when Bran & co emerged from the crypts and found Maester Luwin?  Winterfell's burnt to ruins and deserted now, definitely not occupied.  Hence why Stannis wants to rebuild it and put someone there.  Theon may or may not be dead, he got axed in the back but it's Martin so who knows.  I don't recall reading anything after that that hints he's still alive, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 14, 2008, 10:41:59 PM
(more spoilers!)

Bolton Sr. outright tells Robb that Theon is his son's captive, shortly before the Wedding. He has a flayed piece of Theon skin to prove it. It's possible that this is a lie, but given that Bran and Co. don't find Theon's body in Winterfell (whereas they do find and note his other northmen, not hard to do since IIRC he only had like half a dozen left at that point) I see no reason to assume it is.

D'oh, you're right about Winterfell being torched, I guess Theon was taken back to the Dreadfort then? I just know the Bastard has control of that general part of the country, probably why I made that mistake.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Strago on February 14, 2008, 10:47:11 PM
(Spoilers!)

Yeah, Theon's a captive in the Dreadfort these days.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on February 14, 2008, 11:13:44 PM
Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about that.  It was a fairly minor point given what events follow the information, in fairness.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on February 19, 2008, 06:21:23 PM
Currently on a James Herbert and Dean Koontz spree. Might also browse the horror shelves at the library and see if there are any other interesting books/series by other authors to discover. Haven't done that for a while.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on February 25, 2008, 06:40:53 PM
Good Omens- Everything about this is awesome.  Read, minions.
Particulars?  *shrug* It's a book that's more about the philosophies than the plot proper.  Certain elements are vaguely contrived, but it doesn't matter because it's really about the interesting takes on such matters as predestination, Divine ineffability, the antichrist, etc etc etc.  Awesome.  Also noteworthy, watching the Horsemen assemble was a lot of fun.  Particularly liked War.
Read it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on February 25, 2008, 06:50:00 PM
Good Omens- Everything about this is awesome.  Read, minions.

QFT.

Quote
Particularly liked War.

I'm shocked. shocked, I say.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 25, 2008, 08:58:54 PM
Ehhhh anyone who doesn't like the Neil Gaiman stuff should steer well clear of it.  Heaven and Angels and all that jazz is very out of the norm for Pratchett and while the humor is very him, the main plot and all the stuff it touches is massive fists loads of Gaiman.

If you like them both though, yeah it is a great book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 25, 2008, 09:10:08 PM
Best of Scifi, 2003: Bought this online for two bucks for the Harry Turtledove story (Joe Steele, which kinda sucked actually). I'm about a third of the way through and the rest of the stories have been pretty good, especially the one about the Gordie Howe clone. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on February 27, 2008, 12:14:25 AM
Good Omens is definately better on a reread (was for me at least). I like most of the characters. Out of the horsemen, I liked Famine the best (SHOCK!). Also a general supporter of Anathema and whatshisname with the shitty car. Dog was also a highlight.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on February 27, 2008, 01:44:59 PM
Reread the first four Malazan Book of the Fallen books (super, read these), the first book in the Otherland trilogy (fun, but slow), and Cryptonomicon (he does conversations incredibly well. Plot... less so. Ideas... far more so.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on February 29, 2008, 02:12:45 PM
The horsemen have appeared from Pratchett before right? Can't remember which books but yeah. Apart from Death my favourite was also War (and his horse) Ronnie was also amusing. I remember thinking about reading Good Omens before but must've forgot <_<

**

The horror shelves were rather bare so apart from picking out a couple of books there I also checked the young adult section to see if they had anything worth while.

Angel Blood - Young adult book about deformed kids kept in a institution, their desire to escape and a pair of young adults that end up helping them. Sad ending which also confused me because I didn't know whether the picture in the sand was meant to be of the two kids or of Nick and Nicole >_>

Blood Song - Not really much of a fan of Byrony anymore - in the end I ended up liking Gudrun more o_o The cyber horse was awesme, probably my favourite character overall though the ancient machine city was also intriguing.

Devil's Tango - Left me wanting more. I hope the next book in the series is translated so we get to see what happens next and I'm also thinking about reading "Dance of the Assasins" as well.

Necroscope - The Touch - Imagine my surprise when I found that my library actually had another Necroscope book in stock! :o The last one I remember reading was about some dude called Jake and then I could never get my hands on the next books in the series after that. Anyway in this one we are introduced to a new hero - Scott St John and of course the old familar faces of the E-Branch turn up. Good book, relatively chunky, kept me entertained for quite a while. Plenty of twists, turns and filler. Only thing was I didn't really enjoy the ending but yeah overall I liked the book. Wolf was awesme. I demand more Wolf.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Yakumo on February 29, 2008, 02:49:38 PM
Pratchett uses a separate set of Horsemen in the Discworld books than the set in Good Omens, if I'm not mistaken, but yes.  (I haven't actually read Good Omens yet, but from what CK was saying about them in chat, I'm pretty confident in that claim.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on February 29, 2008, 03:06:00 PM
Yeah, the Good Omens horsepeople are very distinct from the ones who show up in Thief of Time. Including Death, although that one's not as striking.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 29, 2008, 03:37:25 PM
The four Horsemen showed up way earlier than Thief of Time, they are all the way back in Light Fantastic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on February 29, 2008, 04:31:16 PM
Yeah, they're quite different.  Although there's a definite familiarity about the way Death is portrayed.   All caps type, same physical discription, same sort of implacable inevitability of nature vibe.  Honestly I'd describe Good Omens death as the same basic character but before character development.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 29, 2008, 09:54:22 PM
It also works pretty well like that because Pratchett has described Discworld Death as just one of many Deaths and whatnot.  And the Discworld being a mirror of the "real" world in so many different obvious ways (both plot and well literary stuff) it would make sense for them to be similar.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Twilkitri on March 02, 2008, 11:37:59 AM
The Sum of All Fears - I forgot about the freakish number of coincidences that happen in Clancy. If that doesn't bother you though it's pretty good. So many people that die off just for the sake of dying off (For example, there's some guy that, if he had been in the story earlier he was so minor I don't remember him, dies in a car crash nearish the end. And then some other guy wonders why he hasn't shown up yet a little later. And that's the extent of his involvement in the story.) Again this depends on whether that bothers you or not. In any case I found it pretty engrossing. Albiet somewhat depressing because I can imagine some of the political side of things happening in the real world.

I started to read Clancy several years ago, but stopped for some reason... I should start back up.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on March 03, 2008, 04:38:17 AM
Been on a reading/movie binge recently.  Figured I'd start here first, but just one book.  Granted, this book is awesome.

World War Z, by Max Brooks. 

This is the same guy who wrote the humorous Zombie Survival Guide.  However, this isn't a joke book - Brooks outlines an actual zombie apocalypse (theoretical, of course), and fills it with loads of social commentary and a unique perspective that really illustrates an understanding of multiple cultures, ideals and mechanics of the world at large.  The book is written as a collection of interviews of survivors of the war, giving a good perspective of the world's reactions to a world-wide zombie outbreak.  It's...a great social commentary and an excellent read either way.  Great if you like social commentaries, zombie books, post-apocalyptic novels, etc.  Really a good book I'd suggest to anyone looking for something good to read.  I'm thinking I'll be reading it again soon.  Just really good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 03, 2008, 05:55:52 AM
Good Omens- Everything about this is awesome.  Read, minions.

You know what? If you could get Andrew to do this, PLEASE DO. I've been singing the praises of that book to him for about six years now, and I bought it for him, and you'd think because I'm his girlfriend he might take a hint, but he still hasn't read it.

... then again, I'm a Gaiman fangirl. See my name here and all.

I've been reading Gone with the Wind. I'm named after one of the characters, and it was one of my mom's favorite books and movies ever, so she bought it for me for Christmas and said, "Here. Read." So I have been, though it's slow going thanks to the class reading that's getting in my way. I'm rather enjoying it, which is surprising me a little. Not my usual fare. Only about 1/2 way through -- will decide fully when it's over.


Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 03, 2008, 08:01:37 AM
How can someone as angsty and Andrew not have read Sandman?

Find a chair.  Beat him with it until he reads it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on March 07, 2008, 07:47:33 PM
Dead to Me by Anton Strout:  Basically it's Men in Black with the supernatural instead of aliens.  Non-original concept aside, it's a good read and rather witty.

Angelmass by Timothy Zahn:  Not bad, but Zahn couldn't keep a consistent time period for the story.  It's supposed to be very far in the future, but he keeps throwing in anachronistic modern-day phrases that throw off the mood.

Dragons of the Dwarven Depths and Dragons of the Highlord Skies by Weis and Hickman:  Typical Dragonlance - you either like it or you don't by now.  I do wish they wouldn't make the fucking kender the focal point of EVERY SINGLE BOOK.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 07, 2008, 10:03:35 PM
Angelmass by Timothy Zahn:  Not bad, but Zahn couldn't keep a consistent time period for the story.  It's supposed to be very far in the future, but he keeps throwing in anachronistic modern-day phrases that throw off the mood.


Read Armageddon the Musical by Robert Rankin for a Dalai Lama who makes fun of this very trope (while being the Anti Christ who runs the worlds most successful television station).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fudozukushi on March 08, 2008, 12:30:07 AM

Dragons of the Dwarven Depths and Dragons of the Highlord Skies by Weis and Hickman:  Typical Dragonlance - you either like it or you don't by now.  I do wish they wouldn't make the fucking kender the focal point of EVERY SINGLE BOOK.


Again?  Good dammit, this is too much.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AAA on March 11, 2008, 06:12:46 PM
So I finally read all the WoT books. Crossroads of Twilight was shit, Knife of Dreams was pretty good though. Jordan's habit of just shoving import plot events just into the middle of a paragraph like it's no big deal amuses me. Really wish he didn't have such a thing for Elayne though. "Oh hey Elayne's bitchy because of pregnancy as opposed to just being a bitch anyway that's really fucking fascinazzzzzzzzzzzzz".

It was a good read, though. Hope book 12 is as good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bouke on March 11, 2008, 09:19:00 PM
Gave up on WOT many moons ago. Book 9 was the lastest one back then. Too bad he died though.
I fear for George R. R. Martin's health also.

Currently reading;

-Leo Tolstoj : Anna Karenina
-Ludovico Aristo : Orlando Furioso 2nd part (Canto 26)
-Bible (Old Testament, right after Jozua)

Just finished;

-Lots of Oscar Wilde (notably Importance Of Being Ernest, Dorian Gray, House Of pomegranades collection and pretty much all the rest of his short stories,)
-Marcel Proust A la recherche du temps perdu; first four books (next up; The Captive & The Fugitive)
-Boethius: Consolation of philosophy
-Orlando Furioso 1st part (D'uh)
-Dostoyevski: Crime & Punishment

And a bunch of graphic novels including Watchmen, V, Sin City, Dark Knight Returns & Strikes Again, Sandman and the first 8 volumes of Cerebus. Yay.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 11, 2008, 10:26:22 PM
Finished Global Frequency. Kicks ass, there needs to be more. First volume had better villains than the second, and the climax went a bit too far over the top for my taste, but eh, nitpicking. Solid pacing and stories, lots of good art, plus the general novelty of an anthology-style comic series are all appreciated. Even more bitter the TV show died now. Ah well, at least there's other Warren Ellis stuff out there to get. I should start Transmetropolitan sometime, I've already heard all the good stuff about it and knowing the writer is quality gives me another reason to shell out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: BaconForTheSoul on March 24, 2008, 07:38:24 PM
Running with Demons, Knight of the Word, Angel Fire East. (Brooks)

Reread all 3 of these this weekend since I'd forgotten a lot of details.  Still pure win, and now that I know it leads into his newest Shannahra series I may have to start reading those too.

Nothing really stood out with any of these 3 books, but they were just all around solid, lacking and real flaws.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 26, 2008, 02:59:13 AM
In the presence of mine enemies- Great standalone novel by Turtledove. The story itself isn't so breathtaking, it's the setting- it's 2010 and set in the heart of Berlin in a world where the Nazis win WW2. The story's centered around the few surviving jews and how they handle living in a country that thinks it's killed every one of them decades ago.

Just a very good character work- Alicia and her father are both good, as are the bit characters. 

I think Guns of the south is better (Far more compelling, and frankly less depressing than a Nazi controlled world) But this book is very much worth reading anyway.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on March 30, 2008, 03:11:00 AM
Speaking of Turtledove...

SPOILERS WILL BE IN HERE!!!

Super had been kicking me into reading him years ago.  Hadn't had time until recently.  Damn sad I hadn't done it before - he is excellent.  I just finished reading the first 2 novels in the Worldwar series, In the Balance (ItB) and Tilting the Balance (TtB).  First thing I have to say?

TURTLEDOVE.  KNOWS.  HIS.  SHIT.

The thing that's impressed me most so far is that he knows everything, down to the little tiny bits of information that you wouldn't expect someone to pay attention to in an alternate history novel, but him doing so makes it so much better.  Case in point, he makes special note of the German Panther Ds in TtB - great tanks, but they had major fuel issues, as well as some other problems.  Not until the Panther G did the Germans have what could be considered the ultimate tank of the war, with all the problems of the other Panthers (A and D primarily) finally being fixed.  He's also good to mention how the Germans won with their armour - the Panzer I's and II's that conquered Poland and France won not because of being superior to their competition (well, in Poland's case, their competition were horses, but details), but through superior tactics.  Hell, he even mentions the T-34 and KV-1, and draws comparisons between the Lizards and the Russians in frighteningly good detail - even with better equipment, the Russians couldn't fight the Germans properly with their airpower and tactics.  Hell, he's good to mention how radar and cracking the Enigma won the Battle of Britain moreso than anything else.  This guy knows his shit, and I am impressed.

He also is able to extend this to the characters.  I wasn't expecting him to make Molotov such a major player, or Groves for that matter.  Hell, I wasn't expecting him to even put Hitler or Roosevelt in - those are two people very, very hard to portray properly in any media, but he does it, and he does it well.  Hell, Skorzeny is probably the one I've been most impressed with - he's captured nearly perfectly as the bastard he is, and smart as that.  He plays along with everyone else, particularly Jaeger, amazingly well.  Molotov is also fantastic - his first appearance aboard the Fleetlord's ship was...so perfectly Molotovian. 

In addition, he's great at drawing parallels between real world experiences, and making things work in the timeline.  By this, I mean that he's not just making up a new timeline - the things that happen are following a logical progression.  There's none of this doomsday weapon shit at the last minute - everything that's happening is happening around the same time it would in the real world timeline, just somewhat inverted.  Example?  The Russians are the first to develop nukes, around 1944, due to acquiring more atomic material from a raid on a downed Lizard ship than any other nation, and having a headstart on it all.  However, they have one, and due to their craptastic infrastructure and lack of good facilities to produce more, they look like they're stuck for a while.  Guess what issues the Russians had/have in real life?  In another example, Jet power is developing a little earlier, but still around the same level it normally would - it's not like the Meteor or the ME262 is on par with the Lizard fighters yet.  It's nice that the Lizard technology isn't giving humanity some insane, immediate advantage - the Germans capture a tank, but don't know what to do with it, beyond the basic levels of improving armour.  Same with the British capturing a Lizard fighter plane.  Humanity is advancing at the normal rate it can, aided a little bit by the captured technology, but it's not like they've now gained the ability to build the Death Star or something.  That would ruin this.  Turtledove does a great job of keeping things believable, which helps the alternate history style he's going on.  The Lizard technology is perfectly believeable - we have all of it now, just not to the extent the Lizards do. 

It's also filled with some great themes so far.  These include: adversity as an advantage, sex, racial tension, sex, adaptability, sex, coming to terms with trauma, and sex.  Did I mention sex?  Everyone seems to be having it right now >_>  Which is actually relevant!  The differences between the Lizards and the Humans are entirely cultural and biological - technology is similar, but the Lizards are slower, more careful, while Humanity is far more adaptable and changing.  Sex helps to portray this - the Lizards are fascinated by it, since this doesn't happen to them except during breeding periods.  The contrast between the two species is great.  It seems crazy, an alien invasion during World War II, but it's not unbelievable - if they came pulling in X-Wings and Star Destroyers, and humanity still was fighting back, then I might be a liiiiiiitle skeptical. 

It's great to see that he also has to pit humanity against humanity at points - the Poles and Jews siding with the Lizards sounds despicable, but...well, I'm sure I don't have to tell people why they might do this.  It's a moral dilemma, and it's handled well.

Turtledove is also great at pointing out the ingenuity of humanity.  Pissing into a Lizard sensor is golden (lol punz!).

Also, I love his writing.  Such winning lines:

"Teerts wished the Race would drop a plutonium bomb on on Hiroshima.  But what were the odds of that?"

Are gold.  I've laughed more than I thought I would while reading these books - these lines are golden.  Really looking forward to the rest of the series.

Characters thus far!  Ignoring the real life ones, who have been handled amazingly well so far.

Bagnell and RAF crew - Didn't do much in the first book until they got shot down in Germany.  Then we got to see them come to terms with accepting an enemy as an ally, and getting back up in the air.  Then, when we get to book 2, they get stuck with the Russians and the Germans mediating a hellish conflict between the two, a disasterous offensive against a well-guarded outpost, and then they have to piece together the resistance to the Lizards.  This looks like more developing later.

Goldfarb - Similar to the above, he's a radar operator, who stages the rescue of his cousin from a prison.  Otherwise, pretty normal overall.  The Brits are pretty normal, overall >_>  However, they are exceedingly funny - their wit is fantastically written, and they strike me as overall the best comedic characters so far.

Yi Min - Hahahahahaha!  You got what was coming to you, asshole.  Hahahahahahahaha!!!  Fucktard drug-dealer killed by a drug-addicted alien.  Perfect!

Ludmilla - Female Soviet pilot, and a great character.  Her relationship with Jaeger is fantastic, and it really helps punt home the fact that this war is humanity against alien - I like this relationship, and really hope it continues to grow.  She's fearless, great with words, and very thoughtful.  Love her.

Jaeger - The other half of the relationship, and one of my favourites here.  The German perspective and the Soviet perspective are excellent.  Jaeger really exemplifies the basic combat soldier (while the Brits exemplify the air warrior, and Ludmilla, for all that she is a pilot, exemplifies duty and commitment to cause more than any particular soldier designation), and is amazingly smart and well-written.  He's very open in what he says, and is a great, great, amazingly great counterpart for Skorzeny.  Just the chemistry with the two is fantastic.

Shultz - He's either providing more Jaeger, or a foil for Ludmilla and her NKVD policeman Sholudenko.  He's the stereotypical German soldier - womanizing, haughty, but fantastically loyal and dutiful, not afraid to speak his mind and not afraid of death, even in enemy-held territory.

Jens Larssen - Poor fucking Jens.  Nearly killed, then his wife marries another man and has his baby because she thinks he's dead, then she decides to foget him, then his research team abandons him, then he gets VD from someone who shows him some kindness and affection.  Holy shit, this guy gets kicked in the balls.  But you know what?  I hope to hell he doesn't sell humanity out to the Lizards, but I can understand it.  Pedaling alone on a bicycle across the entire country, with nothing anymore?  It's what war will do to you.

Russie - It wouldn't be WWII without a Jewish perspective.  Leading his people to the Lizards to escape the Nazi extermination, he made a tough as hell choice for his people.  Honestly, I don't blame him - who would care about humanity after what the Nazis did?  However, he comes to fight back, when he realizes the Lizards intend to do the same thing for the world, and he saves the day with great propaganda and fabulous Talmudic reasoning.  Great.       

Mutt - Can't forget the other foot-soldier of the war.  Manager of a baseball team is promoted to Lieutenant, woos a lesbian almost to the point of breaking her.  I like his perspective as the addled veteran.  His book 2 conclusion, crying over the lesbian nurse, is...interesting.  Not sure how I feel yet.   

Yeager/Barbara - Poor Jens.  His wife leaves him for a minor league baseball player.  I can't help but feel some personal slight against Barbar, and feel empathy for Jens, though I can see what she was thinking.  Her decision to stay with Yeager made sense, but damned if I don't think anyone on any side handled it well at all.  It's hard to separate these two from Jens, but I think that's the point - thse two are designed specifically to provide that contrast of war - what happens when the soldier (or scientist) returns home to what he thought he had, and finds he had nothing?  Plus, there's finding happiness after what you once had was lost.  It's a give-take thing here, a great contrast between the two, for all that...well, POOR JENS.

Liu Han/Fiore - Poor dead Fiore.  Was not expecting him to die.  And it seems like Liu is poised to be a founding mother of Communism in China.  An experiment in human experimentation, it's interesting to see how her little Chinese World eventually expans with the help of the "foreign devil", and how it still stays once it's cut off.  Interested to see what happens to her child.

Atvar - To quote him at the end of Book 2: "I don't know"  This guy is going to get shit at the start of the next book, I can see that.  Being commander in chief can't be fun.

Teerts - Perfect portrayal of Japanese torture and prisoner treatment.  Ugh.  I feel sad for the guy, despite him trying to bomb humanity into the ground.  Why did it have to be the Japanese? 

Drefsab - I really wished he lived longer - the Skorzeny rivalry would have been neat to see expand further, watching as the Lizard became more human-like to beat his crafty opponent.  He really did get better, and seemed to have control of his drug addiction.  It just goes to show you not to shoot up in the middle of a fire-fight. 

Ussmak - My favourite of the Lizards.  His perspective is like that of Jaeger's - he's a tank driver, except he is the most human of the Lizards.  His crewmembers die, he becomes alone, gets addicted to a drug, goes through hell with a new crew who get killed due to stupidity, gets caught up in a crew that does drugs and causes them to get mauled by the Germans under Jaeger, and then finally fixes himself, and things seem right, with a new crew that he trusts and works with.  I love this - he's adapting to the problems that are kicking him in the ass, and kicking back. 

Favourites so far are Jaeger, Ludmilla and Ussmak.  Of the real-lifeys, Molotov, Skorzeny and Groves.

Favourite scenes?  Oh, there are some great ones, top 3 or so, no particular order:

1) Molotov talking to Atvar in space.  To paraphrase:
ATVAR: Our Emperor shall rule over your planet.
MOLOTOV: Emperor?  Oh yes, we had one at one point.  About 20 years ago, we killed him and his entire family.  I helped. 
ATVAR: ...

The sheer funny factor of that is how straight-forward Molotov was in saying it.  And how crazily the entire Lizard group reacted to it.

2) Russie deciding to help the Lizards when he sees German soldiers pissing on a Jewish Grave.  Damn strong scene there - he got his sign from Heaven, alright.

3) The end of book 2, which I summarized with Atvar's character.  "I don't know"  Humanity develops nukes, and now both sides are at a deadly standstill.  Great way to end the book.

Looking forward to starting the next book tomorrow, Upsetting the Balance, assuming I have time at work.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 31, 2008, 02:40:28 AM
Ludmillia is based on part of a real person IIRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 31, 2008, 04:09:15 AM
Read the 2 Twelve Kingdoms books currently out, 'Sea of Shadow' and 'Sea of Wind'.  Good stuff, and well translated (they don't shy away from throwing in all the requisite Chinese characters, people's modes of speech reflect their class/origin, and the technical language stuff, really integral to understanding the world, is as it should be).

*Spoilers*

Differences between the anime are large, notably that Yoko's classmates never go back with her (and barely exist as characters), and the king of Kou never appears or dies (though it's implied he's going to die of the sitsudou disease).

2nd book is almost exactly the same as the anime, but without reference to Taiki and his king mysteriously disappearing.

Broadly, I agree with the changes they made for the anime version, jazzing up the story with Kou's appearance and Yoko's time as a peformer (and making Rakushun more transcendantly awesome), but they really coulda skipped dragging her classmates along, frankly.

Hope the series garners enough interest for continued translation; the third story arc in particular watches like something that would be better off as words on a page.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on April 06, 2008, 12:20:13 AM
Brandon Sanderson- Elantis. Excellent book and very captivating! He now definetely feels like an excellent choice to ghostwrite the final WoT book. Shame this appears to be a standalone book, because it leaves enough room open for a sequel. Oh well, his second Mistborn book should be in paperback relatively soon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dunefar on April 06, 2008, 01:15:42 AM
I've been on a history/alt history kick lately.

In the Presence of Mine Enemies:

It's okay. It's a 'what if the Nazis won WW2, managed to stay together and not succumb to corruption, then take over the rest of the world?' sort of affair in the early 21st century. It focuses on a group of hidden Jews living in Berlin undercover.  Anyway, it's okay. The characters are decent to passable, though the plot's far too much like the fall of the Soviet Union to get anything but eyerolls from me. At heart it's a slightly twisted retelling of the end of the Soviet Union with a different nationality skin over it.

It's great if you wanna go moon eyed over Nazis, I guess.

10 Ways Hitler could've won WW2.

Eh. It's a collection of short stories and essays on how Hitler could've triumphed. They're a mixed bag - a few are good, some are mediocre, and a couple are hokey and farfetched. I can buy an attempt at Sealion(Even if it's going to collapse in a few days, unbenowst to England) getting a new Parliament and a peace deal. I can buy the Soviets making a bigger cock up of the early war and collapsing. But Hitler becoming some sort of brilliant naval officer, making a big navy(While the powers did nothing, and like hell they're going to ignore that, the Washington Naval Treaty be damned. It's not like the Germans were the only ones capable of ignoring it.), and somehow, even with the resources a navy would take, still having the exact same land triumphs? :psyduck:.

It's good light reading, though if you know your stuff a few of the stories will give you a headache.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 06, 2008, 01:45:19 AM
For more like that, try The Hitler Options. It's a much more analytical collection of essays on the subject. I read it a long time ago though. I should reread, since long stints at work are stretching my reading material thin. From what I remember though, they're more general What-Ifs (What if D-Day had been thwarted, what if Hitler had bypassed Stalingrad instead of sending troops to the grinder, etc).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dunefar on April 06, 2008, 01:51:51 AM
For more like that, try The Hitler Options. It's a much more analytical collection of essays on the subject. I read it a long time ago though. I should reread, since long stints at work are stretching my reading material thin. From what I remember though, they're more general What-Ifs (What if D-Day had been thwarted, what if Hitler had bypassed Stalingrad instead of sending troops to the grinder, etc).

I haven't read that particular book, but I'm familiar with the themes. It's interesting about them, since most WW2 What-Ifs end with the Nazis still beaten. Hitler making a two front war was an act of mammoth madness. Germany might've been able to eventually beat just the Allies at the start of WW2(Barring the US.). Germany might've been able to beat the Soviets by themselves or get them to collapse. The problem is that most of them don't really change much in the end. No Stalingrad? The strained lines mean that the Germans collapse in the Caucauses if they go that way or just run out of men. Stop D-Day? The allies simply try again with a bigger punch, or even at best, fail and all of Europe turns red. You really need a Germany fights perfectly scenario to win against all the enemies it had along with a lot of luck.

Granted, WW2 up to the Fall of France was damn near that. If England had bowed out of the war then, they might've pulled it off. Maybe. Otherwise, there's too much industry and manpower lined up agaisnt the Germans once the USA and the Soviets are involved.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 06, 2008, 07:03:44 PM
Speaking of Turtledove!

Opening Atlantis: Very solid stuff. Stories from the colonial age as Britain, France and Spain expand onto the eighth continent, Atlantis (nothing mystical about it, that's just what the settlers named the place). Not too weighty yet, but the stories are good and the history is suitably alternate - one weakness of his more recent work, I've thought, is following actual events too closely, and this doesn't. It's also cool to see how the political side of things shakes out differently as a result of the first colonists being merchant fishermen with no government officials along for the ride.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on April 11, 2008, 08:58:14 AM
The Great Hunt:  Siuan Sanche is the Amyrillin?  Oh snap!  Damn your spoilers, New Spring!

Beginning was decent, the bulk of the middle largely sucked, and the ending was good.  Selene and Lilandrin were so fake that I wanted to beat the protagonists with the obvious stick.

Maximum Ride - the Angel Experiment:  Characters were good, the writing wasn't.  He aimed below his target audience's intelligence level.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 14, 2008, 08:43:41 AM
Green Mars - Finally picked this back up.  It is still some of the best work I have ever read.  Ann Clayborn chapters are just wow.  They are so emotionally intense.  Finally got onto the Sax Russell chapters so they are more upbeat and one of characters I consider an ideal (especially after the first half of Red Mars where the characters have aged and are no longer broadly brushed archetypes, which technically they are built up as in at the start as a way to build up lot of characters fast, being the way people do tend to see each other at first and ending up being a way to break up those archetypes by making them split off from each other.  Oh gods I could go on about the awesome literary methods used throughout this series for a very long time.) but yeah they will be a bit less emotionally involving. 

I probably would have said before rereading them that Sax was my favourite character but man, Ann is giving up a really good fight in the reread now that I am older and have a much greater appreciation for literature.  She is angsty like all true art is, but soooooooo sympathetic.  She is completely and totally broken as a person it is fantastic.

If you haven't read them before, read Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson dammit.  If you have read it when you were younger like I did?  Do it again, the books are fucking amazing.

Edit - No Sax wins.  He is just... Sax Russell.  Just so completely and totally unadulterated awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 14, 2008, 04:21:26 PM
The Great Hunt:  Siuan Sanche is the Amyrillin?  Oh snap!  Damn your spoilers, New Spring!

Beginning was decent, the bulk of the middle largely sucked, and the ending was good.  Selene and Lilandrin were so fake that I wanted to beat the protagonists with the obvious stick.

Have to disagree, I thought the parts where Rand was in Cairhein were some of the best parts of the book. The dinner party at Barthanes was especially ownin in general. And yeah, Selene wasn't meant to hold up to any serious thought from the reader, which was the point. Rand is still very, very green, and Hurin/Loial are basically nonentities there.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 19, 2008, 05:34:05 PM
G11 series (Mistaken Identity, Planetfall, Colony).  Surprisingly very good.  My thought process, though, was:

"You can't report on that in the Books topic--that's like talking about fanfiction or something."
"But it's been published into three books."
"Okay sure, but it still has traces of its internet fiction origins."
"Such as?"
"It has sexual content!"
"Less than the Song of Fire and Ice series, to be perfectly honest, and that's probably the most talked about series in these topics."
"Well...the pacing could be improved."
"The pacing was ultimately fine, seeing as I lost a lot of sleep reading it, and it actually distrated me away from both TF2 and WAXF."
"The editing could be better--it has the occasional grammatical error."
"True, and that's the biggest strike against it, but so does Eve Zaremba's White Noise, and I reported on that book--small-scale publishers don't find 100% of grammatical errors."
"What about the non-grammar typos?  What about the mathematical inconsistencies in the story?"
"Pfft, even the best edititng ever doesn't always save you from those.  Look at Harry Potter--Dudley got a Playstation before it was released, and the population of Hogwarts doesn't add up."

Anyhow, surprisingly good series.  Best books I've read since...well okay, the last book I read before this was a rereading of Ender's Game, which doesn't seem like a fair comparison (although hmm...I guess it doesn't do as much with subtle emotional situations as the G11 books).  Actually they have a lot of parallels now that I think of it--kids trapped on a space station being manipulated by an authority figure.  The big contrast is that Ender's game takes a very masculine perspective (battle room, etc), whereas G11 takes a very feminine perspective (interesting/awkward emotional situations).  Granted, another way they differ is that G11 was clearly designed as a trillogy (with interesting cliffhangers at the end of books 1 and 2) whereas Ender's Game was not.  Hmm...additionally, Ender is an all-round genius, whereas Steve is...rather specialized.  One thing the book did reasonably well for me is to draw me into the perspective of someone who rather fails at Science (in a Science Fiction setting, no less).  The author drops just enough scientific terms to help you visualize the setting, then has the main character's attention drift away from the conversation.

Overall, probably ranks in my top 5 book series, and is something I do plan to reread, if only to go back and pay more attention to various characters at the start of the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 20, 2008, 01:29:35 AM
Slap yourself for that thought process, that kind of stuff is exactly what book topics are for, letting people know about what you are reading.  If a book is goodish in spite of stuff then you mention that stuff like you did.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on April 20, 2008, 04:11:49 PM
G11 series (Mistaken Identity, Planetfall, Colony).  Surprisingly very good.  My thought process, though, was:

"You can't report on that in the Books topic--that's like talking about fanfiction or something."
"But it's been published into three books."
"Okay sure, but it still has traces of its internet fiction origins."
"Such as?"
"It has sexual content!"
"Less than the Song of Fire and Ice series, to be perfectly honest, and that's probably the most talked about series in these topics."
"Well...the pacing could be improved."
"The pacing was ultimately fine, seeing as I lost a lot of sleep reading it, and it actually distrated me away from both TF2 and WAXF."
"The editing could be better--it has the occasional grammatical error."
"True, and that's the biggest strike against it, but so does Eve Zaremba's White Noise, and I reported on that book--small-scale publishers don't find 100% of grammatical errors."
"What about the non-grammar typos?  What about the mathematical inconsistencies in the story?"
"Pfft, even the best edititng ever doesn't always save you from those.  Look at Harry Potter--Dudley got a Playstation before it was released, and the population of Hogwarts doesn't add up."

These thoughts are stupid and you should feel ashamed for having them.  Given that I've seen much worse than "fanfiction" (and talked about worse! Ech, Jane Austen) talked about here...

Though, this thought process does open up a discussion thread about how serious one should be able to take internet produced productions, but I don't want to derail the thread, so...

Mark McLelland - Male Homosexuality in Modern Japan: Cultural Myths and Social Realities - Yeah, it's the only book I've read in the past week, back off.  Very interesting look at (male) homosexuality in Japan, with a brief overview of pre-Meiji acceptance of homosexuality/bisexuality (nanshoku), an overview of gay men's treatment by the mass media as okama (transvestites) and sexual fantasy (both in yaoi aimed at... well, Miasma, and gay magazines aimed at actual gay men), then several interviews with gay men in Japan circa 2000.  It was quite interesting to see how, given the lack of the Western world's religious background and individualistic look at social psychology and certain aspects of Japanese thinking, there wasn't really a trend of people identifying themselves by their sexuality like we often do here.  Moreso than that, despite not identifying themselves by their sexuality and most simply relegating that part of their life to something like a hobby or playtime and thus only a small part of their existence, most still had to be extremely careful about hiding their practices from most everyone, including those in their "uchi" or in group.  Really fascinating; I want to see how things have changed what with the internet becoming even more of a prominent information spreading tool since then.  Should probably pick up his second book for that, when I'm less busy and just trying to get through school reading.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 20, 2008, 07:07:00 PM
Reread Jurassic Park for the first time since... well, hell, since the movie came out. Got a hell of a lot more out of it than I did then, mostly because it didn't all fly over my head this time. Good stuff, and still surprising the difference in the people who die compared to the movie, since usually they tend to keep that (if combine roles) and change the events ::Looks at Samurai 7::  I still think the movie did a good job being, in general, faithful to the book. Same questions are raised, in general the same things happen with the right details cut. What's funny is the stuff they left out that they added to the second and third movie. For all his faults, I think I'd rather have book Gennero as my lawyer than anyone else at this point.

I think the most humorous difference is Grant.

Movie: "God I hate kids."
Book: "Kids are awesome!"
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on April 20, 2008, 07:20:34 PM
It amused me, on reading the book, to see how much Gennero actually did (pretty much most of what Ellie does in the movie). Of course, it was a Spielberg movie, so the lawyer had to be detestable and devoid of redeeming human qualities.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 20, 2008, 09:47:14 PM
To be fair, he's actually worse in the book. In the movie he just comes off as your typical boring and uninteresting lawyer. They didn't let him really DO enough to be considered a dick. The book allows him to flourish in that respect. He does redeem himself, but he's still worse off.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on April 21, 2008, 05:10:46 AM
"It has sexual content!"
"Less than the Song of Fire and Ice series, to be perfectly honest, and that's probably the most talked about series in these topics."

This can be said for pretty much everything.  Up to and including most Japanese h-games.

College campus is closing and relocating, so all the professors are setting out boxes of books they don't want for students to take.  Random stuff I've read sitting around waiting for classes:

Marisha Pessi - Special Topics in Calamity Physics:  Surprisingly excellent.  Starts out looking like a standard coming of age drama that seems like it'll have a ton of flaws (unsympathetic protagonist, inaccessible for non-English majors, heavy handed cliches) then not only avoids them all but turns them into assets to set up an amazing ending.  I can't say much more without spoiling it, but read this if you happen to see it around.

Pat Conroy - Beach Music:  Figured I'd give some modern realistic fiction a shot, and wound up turning pages, even though I disliked the plot and nearly all the characters.  Well written, just felt very unrelatable to me.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 21, 2008, 06:52:54 AM
Given that I've seen much worse than "fanfiction" (and talked about worse! Ech, Jane Austen) talked about here...

Would now be a bad time to mention that I was thinking about comparing the G11 series to Jane Austen?  I mean, one might be able to describe it as Jane Austen in space.  Except with more sex, violence, LGBT, and epicness of plotline.  (Which is to say it has such stuff...in fact all of the above, barring perhaps lesbians).


"It has sexual content!"
"Less than the Song of Fire and Ice series, to be perfectly honest, and that's probably the most talked about series in these topics."

This can be said for pretty much everything.  Up to and including most Japanese h-games.

And not including...probably 50% of internet fiction.  Presumably a lot of romance novels too, from what I've heard.

Song of Fire and Ice is noteworthy for being a respected published work that doesn't shy away from the subject of sex (in that every other book I can think of stops descriptions at groping, if it even gets that far).  However, the books as a whole are also cleary not about sex (in that sex comprises maybe 10% of the scenes)--low enough that it can be argued that the sex is included for realism and character motivation (and not included for its own sake...although SoFI pushes that boundary sometimes).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on April 21, 2008, 08:20:33 AM
True, I was counting published works, not internet fiction or books that are explicitly about sex.  (Actually, the point was that it has more sex than some works that *are* supposedly about sex.)  I think SoIaF crossed the 'gratuitous' line somewhere in book 2 or 3, though, and that's one of my major problems with the series.  Definitely around the part where Dany's maids started helping her to sleep, if not before. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on April 21, 2008, 10:24:14 AM
Given that I've seen much worse than "fanfiction" (and talked about worse! Ech, Jane Austen) talked about here...

Would now be a bad time to mention that I was thinking about comparing the G11 series to Jane Austen?  I mean, one might be able to describe it as Jane Austen in space.  Except with more sex, violence, LGBT, and epicness of plotline.  (Which is to say it has such stuff...in fact all of the above, barring perhaps lesbians).

You totally had me until that last phrase.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on April 21, 2008, 12:57:18 PM
Eh.  See, in SoIaF the sex usually works for the purposes of character development--it worked particularly well with Tyrion and Jon Snow, though it missed the mark a little with Dany in that though I can remember the scene I can't recall exactly what impact it was supposed to have on her other than making her uncomfortable and supposedly signifying... something about her moving past the horse lord whose name I forget from book 1.  It gets a little much at times, but I would be hard pressed to say it's gratutious; read contemporary fiction (EDIT: published fiction, mind, not internet publications or something published through the far more sketchy self publication companies) and there's about a 30% chance sex will be talked about as explicitly as it is in Martin's series, and about a 5% chance that it'll be talked about more explicitly. Mary Gaitskill, Miranda July, Alan Hasset (Oh man, Alan Hasset...  If you think the depictions of sex in ASoIaF are bad go read "The Beginnings of Grief."  Though arguably it's utilized better in that work than it is in ASoIaF), and others I can't list off off the top of my head (those are just the ones I've read recently and thus the ones more prominent in my mind), have all published stories with more explicit depictions of sex acts than ASoIaF.  Honestly, saying that the series has "more sex than works supposedly about sex" is naive (especially regarding works ostensibly about sex! But you're Alex so that's O.K.) and blows the scenes in question out of proportion both within the books (EDIT 2: hey, look, another tangent that makes this sentence hard to read) and within trends in modern literature. 

Which, of course, brings us back to the point I made in my last post:  MC's worries about something not being valid enough of a piece of fiction to talk about in this topic are stupid.

Serious EDIT2:  Of course, though anthologized or published in collections of stories through the traditional channels they are certainly less popular; ASoIaF is one of the few pieces of pop fiction that takes as frank of an approach to sex as it does.  An argument could be made that this is an artifact from the works being closer to literary fiction than other fantasy or pop fiction works, but an equally compelling argument could be made to that connection being superficial.  I would probably say that the lack of such an approach to sex in much pop. fiction stems from the fact that pop. fiction is written for and marketed to the public at large (even most fantasy; moreso than literary fiction, anyway) and is more a reflection of the public's tastes than it is a qualifier of... well, anything else.

EDIT 3:  Also, after rereading MC's first post, hahahahahaha.  Mathematical inconsistencies.  Hahahaha.  Oh, man, what do you expect? A writer to not fail at math to a degree?  Hahahaha.  Haaaaah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 21, 2008, 06:44:15 PM
Given that I've seen much worse than "fanfiction" (and talked about worse! Ech, Jane Austen) talked about here...

Would now be a bad time to mention that I was thinking about comparing the G11 series to Jane Austen?  I mean, one might be able to describe it as Jane Austen in space.  Except with more sex, violence, LGBT, and epicness of plotline.  (Which is to say it has such stuff...in fact all of the above, barring perhaps lesbians).

You totally had me until that last phrase.

If it makes you feel better, it has lesbian moments (causing much awkwardness) just no character who is explicitly lesbian (as opposed to, say, bi).

Quote
EDIT 3:  Also, after rereading MC's first post, hahahahahaha.  Mathematical inconsistencies.  Hahahaha.  Oh, man, what do you expect? A writer to not fail at math to a degree?  Hahahaha.  Haaaaah.

It sometimes happens >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: ThePiggyman on April 26, 2008, 03:05:57 AM
Just finished reading The Giver.

In my opinion, the best book I've read since Animal Farm.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Talaysen on April 26, 2008, 04:20:43 AM
Just finished reading The Giver.

Good man.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 26, 2008, 10:51:36 PM
Well given my previous slap on the wrists I suppose I should report on...

G15 Classified.

That's right, internet fanfiction based on the universe of other internet fiction.

Complete Trash.

The funny thing is that it actually addresses most of the weaknesses of the G11 series.  (For instance, it goes out of its way to avoid mathematical inconsistencies.  The main character doesn't have airhead moments, and is, in fact, nicknamed "the brain".  More technical behind-the-scenes explanations are offered for certain aspects of the universe).  None of this really matters, though, as the main character suffers from Mary Sue syndrome (no secret of the universe is safe from "the Brain").  Among other things, this overdone "I'm a genius" posturing is somewhat out of place with the character's supposed psychological diagnosis around which the events of the story are supposed to be based.  The author also seems to lack a certain flair for the dramatic; a lot of scenes coming off as rather dry that probably shouldn't.  In fact, conflict seems to come primarily in the form of being mildly uncomfortable or creeped out by the situation (it also comes from some minor characters whom everyone seems to agree are idiots, though somehow that means even less, because those characters are idiots and therefore their opinion is invalid).

Granted, maybe I'm being unfair--certain characters didn't have much worth at the start of G11 either, but developed in later books.  However I can't see myself reading the later G15 books because A: the first one, while briefly interesting for the technical approach to the setting, did not lend itself to length, B: said books aren't even written yet, and C: one of the authors has left, so the quality will probably go downhill.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on April 28, 2008, 04:59:57 PM
Charles Stross - Singularity Sky

Very good book, and probably the best modern Sci Fi I've read in a few years. Stross can be a little hard to follow at times, because he jumps around alot, but that's about my only complaint. The man is nearly as adept at information density as Doc Smith, so a whole lot is happening in a very short span of pages at any given point. Which frankly, I enjoy.

Also the Eschaton is single most literal "deus ex machina" I've ever read about. God from a machine, indeed. "Thou Shalt Not Commit Casuality Violations Within My Historic Lightcone"
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 28, 2008, 09:02:07 PM
Making Money: Not quite as good as Going Postal, but still good. Moist continues to be awesome, as does Miss Dearheart. Hopefully more coming from this series, though we are in desperate need of a Watch novel focusing on Carrot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on May 01, 2008, 08:12:58 AM
Decided to read back over an old StalkStalk topic and pick up books you people like.  Afterall, if I can't trust the DL for all my popular fiction and literature needs,, who can I trust?  There's a list of five or six worth noting, the first two...

Animal Farm- What's to say?  It's a well hashed-over book that, despite the intense focus of its subject, is well worth reading.  Orwell's mastery of the language lends an uncharacteristic elegance to smashing the reader's face with a sledge hammer of truth, and watching it in action is somewhat awe inspiring.

And then...

1984- Gosh, this is almost like something I've read before... hmmm...
But no.  Winston Smith is compellingly human in all respects, which drives forward a book that'd be pretty captivating anyways.  What really stands out is the totality of the Dystopia, the obvioius thougth behind it all.  And, of course, the afforementioned "Orwell makes you like taking sledge to the face".
Funnily, I can't think of a Dystopia since, and being a bit into scifi as a youth I saw a lot, that was a quarter as totalitarian and absolute as Oceania.  They just don't go nearly as far with the concept as Orwell did on the first real trip out, and obviously in less detail but 1984 spent a good 300 pages on exacting detail of just how bad things were so that's a bit of an unfair comparison.

Catch-22 next.  Subsequent reading to follow when I can get my hands on copies of things.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 01, 2008, 09:11:59 AM
Needs more Clockwork Orange and Candide.  Then fucking read Red Mars goddammit, I know Sage has read it and I think Elf, but I need someone else to do it.

Green Mars - So I am almost finished.  I love the mirroring of 2061 in the second revolution, it is all like the first one just done RIGHT with the moderates in power because most of the real extremes have died off and what you are left counting as extremists are mostly extreme about non-directly political things (Terraforming rather than social structure and stuff).  It is really awesome. 

Favourite part is Sax getting his revenge, it is so deliciously stark and direct.  He gets back at the secret police that tortured him and gave him brain damage by furthering his terraforming program to increase the oxegyn levels on the planet to roughly 40%, plants the area they live in full of plants that drop seeds in forest fires, then ignites the whole fucking area (while having carefully designed the whole thing to be contained by natural features).  So he just burns them entirely plant off the face of the planet by making the planet potentially one giant air fuel bomb (40% oxegyn atmostphere ignites suuuuuuuper fast and easy).  All while furthering his terraforming projects.

So cool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on May 11, 2008, 10:07:46 PM
Reading more internet fiction.  Most of it is either not good enough to mention, or short enough that I wouldn't classify it as a book.  Some science fiction and X-Men ripoffs border on being worth a mention just for how different and imaginative they are, but not really.  The piece that really had me losing sleep was "Educating Danielle"--which is to say, I was up till 4am last night reading it, and continued in the morning not wanting to stop for breakfast.  What makes this weird is that I have a hard time defending it objectively--it's not finished, and the plot arc shows signs of not being planned out ahead of time, and the editing is bad.  The one thing I can say it does do well is to create tension out of relatively mundane real-world situations (which is to say, if you don't like Jane Austen, I doubt you'd find much value in this).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 14, 2008, 02:42:51 AM
Been on a reading/movie binge recently.  Figured I'd start here first, but just one book.  Granted, this book is awesome.

World War Z, by Max Brooks. 

This is the same guy who wrote the humorous Zombie Survival Guide.  However, this isn't a joke book - Brooks outlines an actual zombie apocalypse (theoretical, of course), and fills it with loads of social commentary and a unique perspective that really illustrates an understanding of multiple cultures, ideals and mechanics of the world at large.  The book is written as a collection of interviews of survivors of the war, giving a good perspective of the world's reactions to a world-wide zombie outbreak.  It's...a great social commentary and an excellent read either way.  Great if you like social commentaries, zombie books, post-apocalyptic novels, etc.  Really a good book I'd suggest to anyone looking for something good to read.  I'm thinking I'll be reading it again soon.  Just really good.

Just grabbed World War Z from the library myself. I really dig the way the novel's laid out- it's a very breezy 300 pages, easy to read in a long afternoon. It covers the story very well in a brief amount of time. I'm just not sure how much I care for some of the social commentary.  Good book though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Mad Fnorder on May 14, 2008, 07:41:29 PM
Finished Blind Willow, Sleeping Woman by Haruki Murakami. Well, finished in as much as you can finish reading a short-story collection. I can't pin down what about his writing sucks me in, but I haven't enjoyed something as much in a long, long time. A lot of the stories remind me of slowly inflating bubbles, just staring at the surface tension- the trick being sometimes the bubble pops, sometimes it doesn't. In any case, highly recommended to give it a shot- I think a story or two of his are online.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on May 16, 2008, 06:04:42 AM
Guns of the South:  Echoing what others have said - Turtledove knows his shit.  Little details like the average height of 1800s man being noticeably less than 2000s man really make the story click.  Good stuff.  Is How Few Remain a direct sequel or just another story?

The Dragon Reborn:  Everyone decides to become more responsible and mature this book!

Perrin: "I'm going to stop being a moody whiner."

Mat:  "I'm going to stop being an obnoxious twat."

Rand:  "Screw you guys, I'm going KA-RAY-ZAY!"

Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

They also introduce a new character named Faile, who does exactly that.

Oh, and Siuan Sanche, we get that you were a fisherman's daughter.  WE GET IT.  You do not need to utter a fishing euphamism in EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE.  The writer actually had to invent an entire town where people used fishing euphamisms in every sentence to cover this important story aspect.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AAA on May 16, 2008, 06:06:12 AM
How Few Remain is entirely unrelated to Guns of the South, it's a what-if scenario instead of one about time travel.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 17, 2008, 08:15:11 PM
Opening Atlantis- Finished. See what Shale said in general. It was a very enjoyable read all the way through, the history was broken up nicely. (The founding, the settling, and then it's uniting under the english flag).

Looking forward to the next book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 25, 2008, 08:45:22 AM
Knife of Dreams - Finally found where I had left this.  Reading it now, bit shy of halfway through the book.  Having lots of fun with Mat and Perrin stuff, could use some Rand, but what is there is good so far, much better than I remember Crossroads of Twilight and Path of Daggers to be and whatnot.  Oh but hey, here is the Elayne chapters and she is being an annoying bitch.  IF ONLY I HAD CONTROL OVER MY EMOTIONS AGAIN WHILE I AM UP THE DUFF.  Bitch you never had any fucking control over your emotions anyway, you have always been a whiney impulsive bitch, get the fuck out of my book and let me read some plot about someone I give a flying fuck about.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on June 05, 2008, 11:56:57 PM
The Shadow Rising:  From here on, I will be referring to Rand as Guv, since Guv's Gigaslash animation is the same as Rand's Power Sword Thingy.  That makes Perrin=Yangus (axes and hammers) and Mat=Angelo (bows and staves).  Still not sure who Jessica is, maybe next book I'll decide on that one.

Anyway, good book.  Best of the series so far.  There were far fewer dull parts, and they didn't last as long.  Not like the train wreck of the Cairhien arc a few books back.
</supertrolling>
Especially liked the Farebury stuff with Yangus and Red.  Not so much the Pickham story with Elayne and Nynaeve, but it was still passable.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on June 07, 2008, 10:54:25 PM
To Green Angel Tower (Tad Williams)- Finished this trilogy...or 4 book series. Tricked because I accidentally bought two versions of the same book since book 3 and 4 also had a condensed book 3 and 4 version, so now I have two book 4s. This was kind of funny, because I was reading the giant one (Since the only book 4 was noted To Green Angel Tower Part 2 despite book 3 not being named that...), and completely thought there could be another book until right at the end. I guess this is to say that the ending felt very abrupt considering how very slowly Tad Williams likes to build things up. Both the final resolution and some of the randomly thrown in plot twists.

Also, Maegwin's view kind of rocked after Skali's defeat.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 11, 2008, 11:13:39 AM
Knife of Dreams - Had a small break from this because Elayne being a continuous string of epic fail put a damper on it.  But yeah picked it back up and onto Egwene.  Wow, this is some of the best RJ from a female point of view since the (rare) Moiraine stuff.  Awesome.  I could read the rest of the book full of this.  Ignoring the strong central focus on the metaplot like some chapters have and bring it back to character focussed and his writing is much better and more enjoyable.  This is win.

I meant to comment on this back on the 7th when Dhyer first posted, but is that part of his Otherlands stuff Dhyer?  Cause that stuff is pretty good mix of cyberpunk and fantasy from what I read.  Waaaay to huge for me to get into at the time, giant books that are pretty non-stop in a long series is daunting and put me off finishing it.  Good stuff though.

The name Maegwin reminds me of Katherine Kerr, have you ever read her stuff Dhyer since you seem to have a taste for the slightly pulpy fantasy, she has some shades of Sara Douglass.  Less confronting, but still a bit on the trashy side while being kind of fun.

Edit - Oh and it does have that tragic romantic thing that you have going as well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on June 11, 2008, 11:36:38 AM
To Green Angel Tower's a completely different series, IIRC; far more fantasy-focused from what I remember, but I never managed to finish the first book due to my habit to spontaneously shift books and forget I even owned the previous book.

I'm good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on June 11, 2008, 12:10:44 PM
Go back and finish it, Tai (you know, when you're not in China any more). Also seconding Grefter on Katharine Kerr. Nothing revolutionary, but it's fun stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on June 11, 2008, 12:13:33 PM
I will when I can be bothered to find it in the organized mess that is my room.

Nothing's usually on the floor except desk/mattress (Fun fact: I do not use a bedspring or a bedframe. Why? Iunno.)/dresser/string bass/a few plastic crates/bookshelves.

The desk is immaculateish.

The rest of the place is a bloody mess and is likely more so since my family's had free use of it.

So yeah, once I find the book I'll read it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 12, 2008, 08:35:08 AM
It still spins me out for all that Katherine Kerr has minor pulpy fantasy I consider her Sci Fi to be her Magnum Opus.  Palace is that fucking good.  It is done with someone else who may have been the majour influence though.  I only just now checking up on stuff find out that there is a sequel I didn't know about and I need to find.

Edit - Though Polar City Blues  is pretty damned sweet as well and is all her.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: CompmanJX3 on June 14, 2008, 02:09:35 AM
I case anyone was worried (yeah right), I'm still alive.

After reading Ringworld (which sucked), I thought of you all and read all four released books from A Song of Ice and Fire (which didn't suck).

A SPOILER or two!
 
Book one and two were pure awesome in their ability to pump out exciting plot developments and keep me turning pages.  I've mostly read more cliche fantasy fare, and I kept waiting for the "right thing" to happen, but was pleasantly surprised when it continued to not happen, although he ought to deliver occasionally.  Cliche it might have been, but Sandor and Gregor Clegane fighting to the death would have been pretty much awesome. 

Anyway, things started slowing down in book three, to the point where I was looking forward to some characters and wanted others to get their chapter's over with.  Also it was like 30% Tyrion, which is fine because he's a great character, but it got old, really.  There were some awesome exceptions to the lower quality of this one, though (Red Wedding caught me COMPLETELY by surprise, and then I laughed at myself because Martin dropped about a zillion hints.)

And things REALLY got slow in Feast for Crows.  Jaime was the only character I really liked that got a whole lot of face time.  A few other interesting people made appearances not often enough and every once in a while something cool happened.  But Cersei was more or less insufferable.  Gah, I wish it hadn't been prophesied that she'd outlive her kids THEN die, because both of her living offspring are way cooler than her.

Anyway, looking at other people's comments, no way in hell do I think Jaime goes back for Cersei.  He rightly hates her crazy annoying personage at this point.  And the next book will probably be better just because it will star Jon and Bran and Dany and Tyrion and those characters are usually a good time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lord Ephraim on June 14, 2008, 04:52:59 AM
WHOMG IT'S GLOMPMAN!

Yes, we didn't forget about you.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 14, 2008, 11:46:15 AM
Knife of Dreams - Finished.  ARGH FUCK YOU ELAYNE JUST DIE SO I STOP HAVING TO READ ABOUT YOU.  Yay more her being a stupid irrational bitch and then pissing and moaning about being an irrational bitch.  Where the hell was more Egwene dammit?

Mat stuff was good.  A lot more pleasing over all than the Perrin plot really (Perrin should have been tied up ... a book ago I think, but that is nothing new with Perrin plot, always slow even though it has its moments).  Glad they tied everything up with the plot of Mats they did there, I was expecting it to have been held back for next book.  Sets up the badly needed truce.  Rand getting fucked over was... well the plot points behind it and the myth callbacks for it of course are great, he kind of gets the idiot ball there a bit (at least they didn't kill Semirhage.  Another ressurected Forsaken would have been annoying at this point) like why didn't he just Balefire her after the battle was over?  He could easilly have had enough power to blast her out of existence for 5 minutes or however short the battle would have been, he certainly blast Rahvin out a good what 30 minutes?  Should have been trivial.  I guess this way Logain and other Ashaman don't know the weaves for it (Wow at Logain by the way.  Still being a solid character with not enough screen time even now.)

Mazrim Taim plot continues to be a bit overwrought.  Meh.  Oh well.

Still I liked it, best book since oooh probably Shadow Rising I guess.  Crossroads of Twilight had a great finish which justified like the whole book, but Knife of Dreams was a lot more consistant the whole way through.  Also worth noting that it is the first book I can think of in the series that didn't really pull out all the stops and wrap up something huge in the last few pages in this giagantic climax.  There was plot resolution throught the whole book instead of a book of setup for a million things with no pay off for any of it other than tying up one thing started 3 books back.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on July 19, 2008, 03:25:26 PM
Fires of Heaven - This book sucked as much as the last one rocked.  950 pages and they couldn't fit in a single chapter with Perrin?  He's like the Neville Longbottom of this series.  Book 5 - He's a really important character!  Book 6 - Neville who?

So sick of reading about Elayne and Nynaeve.  Oh she wished her hair were in a proper braid so that she could give it a good tug!  Somebody kill me.

On a positive note, Gareth Byrne kicks ass.  And Moraine finally did something useful.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 19, 2008, 07:18:16 PM
For what it's worth, at this point Perrin is emasculated fail still, but he gets a liittle bit in the next book, he doesn't do much huge for a couple of books though.  Nynaeve gets a bit better later! and then stops being POV.  Elayne always is shit though.  Hell I think even Rand has a book where he has no point of view maybe?  I know later there is one where he doesn't do much, but he still has some and ends it with a bang.

But hey, at least the Battle of Dumai's Well was cool right?  FoH is an entire book of setting stuff up so it makes for a blah read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on July 19, 2008, 07:56:49 PM
Closest thing to a Rand-less book is The Dragon Reborn (irony, it is funny). Dumai's Wells is Lord of Chaos. Elayne is awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on July 19, 2008, 07:59:46 PM
You're the only one I've ever seen talk about the series who has come away with that conclusion.  I think it's safe to say you're alone on that bit of horrible taste.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on July 19, 2008, 08:56:08 PM
Elayne would be fine if she would stick with one personality.  She's different for every book (and sometimes switches more than once in the same book).  In this one, she's become some kind of pyscho dominatrix.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 19, 2008, 09:01:32 PM
It is differing a lot and yet it is always retarded.

And yeah dammit Dumai's Wells was LoC.  Well shit.   What was there that I liked in FoH again?  I know I came out of it satisfied when I read it in my teens.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 19, 2008, 09:35:52 PM
There's not much point to having a Perrin PoV (To quote the author, all he was doing was being a newlywed and rebuilding the two rivers). The other plot arcs were more important.

Fires of Heaven Gref? It has three major arcs- Rand travelling out of the wastes and learning from Asmodean, Nynaeve and Elayne travelling across the whitecloak country and Gheldean, and the start of Salidar. Notable happenings include Mat forming the band of the red hand, Moiraine/Lanfear vanishing, Rand bedding Ahvendia, Nynaeve causing the riots of Samara, Logain/Min/Leane/Siuan running into Gareth Byrne and accidently giving the Aes Sedai rebels a general, and the 'birth' of Bridgette Silverbow.

And Elayne's the weakest major PoV character in the series by a lot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on July 19, 2008, 10:09:51 PM
Book 5 is good stuff, yeah.

Elayne feels much more real than most of the other PoVs to me, on the other hand - the very thing Captain K describes is something I see more of a strength of hers. She is both kind and bitchy, highly intelligent but does some stupid things, etc. It helps that her thought process is a lot like mine, I'll freely grant, but even so I can take that as proof that she is actually rather real, so thumbs up to that, as that is something a lot of fantasy has issues with.

I find her a far superior character to Mat, who feels summed up by being a character designed to appeal to teenage boys, and Perrin, a generic nice guy who ultimately doesn't really provoke much thought. Nynaeve too, I am not quite sure what to make of. She has moments certainly but overall she doesn't make a super-strong impression on me. On the other hand Rand is <3 and Egwene is solid too.

Though I suppose I see people here who identify with Mat, so eh. Even the characters I don't like I will give RJ some credit for. And it speaks more highly of the series to have a generic rascal than to have a generic do-gooder, if you have to have either.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on July 20, 2008, 06:10:55 AM
There's not much point to having a Perrin PoV (To quote the author, all he was doing was being a newlywed and rebuilding the two rivers). The other plot arcs were more important.

And what's wrong with throwing ten pages in to say that?  Why does every chapter have to be DRAMATIC CONFLICT DRAMATIC CONFLICT DRAMATIC CONFLICT?  Your characters will seem more human when you show them being human - kicking back and relaxing after a hard-won victory.

And then there's Elayne at the opposite end of the spectrum.  There's a difference between showing a variety of emotions and being fucking Sybil.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 20, 2008, 07:24:04 AM
In the head the Elf is a drama queen?  You are lucky you can drive I guess.  Make useful and all that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on August 08, 2008, 12:34:35 PM
Lord of Chaos:  Apparently Robert Jordan heard my complaints about the last book and wose from his gwave to change this one to my liking.  Especially liked how Egwene matured this book - her scene where she admitted her toh to the Wise Ones was very powerful.

Mazraim Taim is evil!  He is so evil!  The only thing he's missing is a railroad track to tie Tess Trueheart to.  Which probably means he's going to be the unexpected good guy who saves everyone in the end.

Also, I have the strange suspicion that Sorilea is Cadsuane in disguise, even though Cadsuane hasn't been mentioned outside of New Spring.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 17, 2008, 06:48:00 PM
Score, just bought the first worldwar bucks for six and a half bucks. Need to find which Colonization books I still own (I found aftershocks at least).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dunefar on August 17, 2008, 07:34:55 PM
Barbarossa, a history of the Eastern Front in the Second World War: Picked this up at Barnes and Nobles on a whim. It's a decent if dated examination of the Eastern Front of WW2.  It's nothing ground breaking if you're a student of history, but I found his tendency to make the more sane players in the entire war sympathetic interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on August 18, 2008, 03:44:58 AM
Crown of Swords:  Another good book, this one rocked pretty steadily from beginning to end.  Also, apparently I summoned Cadsuane by mentioning her name in my last post.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 18, 2008, 08:40:05 AM
Illuminatus! - I am halfway through book 2 or so.  Not that it really matters with the trilogy in one book edition (which I am glad I am reading instead of individual books, it flows to well to break it up).  It is still super stream of consciousness still (even more so just where I stopped with having just had someone writing actual stream of consciousness stuff while cutting backwards and forwards with a guy babbling incessantly in a stream of consciousness as he was physically and mentally coerced).  This book is great.  It is so full of stuff that is very me and yet completely and totally nothing like my style.  Great stuff.  Highly reccomend it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 18, 2008, 06:14:29 PM
Rose Madder- reread most of this book earlier today. The supernatural shit and the dark tower tiein really suck, but the story of Rose fleeing from her husband and the Norman chapters are good. Norman's the best reason to read the book for sure. Crazy motherfucker, may be one of King's best villains just for how fucked up and realistic (Insane cop) it is compared to his norm.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 19, 2008, 04:12:16 AM
House of Chains- Finished this, picked up Midnight Tides, but then had issues. Felt like the first 4 books basically worked because they built off a large cast of characters introduced early (Making it easier to for me to follow Erikson's writing style!). Thinking that basically started over with brand new character sets would be difficult.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on August 19, 2008, 04:34:59 PM
Just finished reading The Snow Queen, and it honestly feels alot more...I dunno, complete? Yeah, complete works, then the two 500 Kingdoms books before it. Still not on the same level as Fairy Godmother, but that's not easy to pull off. Misty does seem to have trouble writing self contained books these days, though. Which is a bit dissapointing, because this book could have been written so that you didn't need to know anything about the previous books with so little effort. Nix out the throwaway referance to the Dragon Champions from book 2, and maybe spend an extra half-page explaining the Tradition when Aleksia is first talking about it, and boom, you suddenly wouldn't *need* to have read the other 3 to enjoy this one(though I'd reccomend reading them anyway, of course!).

I suppose the reason this is irking me a bit is because the 500 Kingdoms books aren't really a serial(is that the right word here?), just a series set in the same world. Has some of the same characters from book to book, but nobody is a Main Character in more then one. Each book has it's own crisis and conclusion, so you should be able to pick any individual one up and enjoy it(see the Redwall books for a good example of what I'm talking about here). But One Good Knight and Fortune's Fool rely waaaaay too much on the previous book(s) to really get into on thier own. But also without being actual continuations of a story either.

Bleh, I guess it's just the whole "not this but not that either" thing that's annoying me.

Anyway, picked up Charlie Stoss's Accelerando(sp?) while I was on vacation. That'll be the next book on my plate.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on August 20, 2008, 11:10:47 PM
Okay, I lied. Accelerando was not the next thing I read. As I was walking out to grab it, I saw Island in the Sea of Time, by S. M. Stirling, and thought I'd give that a read instead. Very glad I did, as the book is quite excellent. Basic premise here is that Something Happens to make the island of Nantucket circa 1998 AD switch places with it's circa 1250 BC self. The islanders' struggle to survive and even dare to prosper in the bronze age is quite entertaining, as are thier dealings with the cultures native to that time period.

Anyway, my head is swimming from spending most of today reading, so I'm going for a walk now.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on August 21, 2008, 01:04:03 AM
The Gnostic Gospels, by Elaine Pagels: Excellent analysis of the actual beginning of Christianity and the arguments between the orthodox which assembled the Church and pretty much drove off all opposition and the gnostic Christians, whose opinions varied widely between the sensible to the flat-out new-age trippy insanity-level stuff at times. Interesting read, definitely.

...Yes, this is the sort of thing I read when I go for non-fiction. >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 21, 2008, 03:56:05 PM
The Gnostic Gospels, by Elaine Pagels: Excellent analysis of the actual beginning of Christianity and the arguments between the orthodox which assembled the Church and pretty much drove off all opposition and the gnostic Christians, whose opinions varied widely between the sensible to the flat-out new-age trippy insanity-level stuff at times. Interesting read, definitely.

...Yes, this is the sort of thing I read when I go for non-fiction. >_>

Nothing wrong with that! *kicks Tai in the direction of The Barbarian Conversion, for the next episode of the epic saga!*
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on August 25, 2008, 03:15:28 AM
New Spring - Awesome.

Simultaneously a good book in its own right and a very valuable addition to the Wheel of Time as a whole. Moiraine was certainly the most overdue character in the series to get that kind of spotlight on her, and she makes a compelling and believable main character. Lan is excellent as well, and the book alone serves as an excellent painting for the more mature Lan we see in the main series. Both characters manage to develop notably in the course of the book, and their interaction is great. Siuan was also nice, even if she's mostly the character for Moiraine to bounce off when Lan isn't around (which to be fair is a lot of the time, including the whole first half of the book).

Some of the actual plot is made more predictable by the fact that it's been alluded to in the main series (just seeing the chapter title "Pond Water" served as a giveaway for certain events in the chapter...) and of course you know which major characters are still alive 20 years from now and which ones are not. But there are still some mysteries to be solved, and the "how" proves more interesting to learn about than the "what", in any case. This is how you do a prequel and don't fuck it up, and still add something very meaningful to your series.

Stuff like this is what makes Robert Jordan totally worth reading. One of Jordan's best works, and generally serves to cement my opinion of him and Robin Hobb being the best modern fantasy writers I've had the pleasure to read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on September 06, 2008, 04:32:35 AM
The Path of Daggers:  Short book is short.  Rand's battle plan was pretty sound - harass the Seanchan until they form a giant group, then drop tactical nuclear Callandor on them.  Ah well, the best laid plans of ta'veren and men...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 06, 2008, 05:03:25 AM
Just about done reading the Worldwar series again. First four books are very good. Ludmilla/Jager/Molotov are all good PoV chapters. Sam's good as well. Jens is.. disturbing and sad, but also still a good read.  No real complaints.


Colonialization had way too much Karen/Johnathan Yeager stuff. Kassquit's PoVs I also skipped. No I do not want to read her angst. Very good otherwise, wanted more chapters set in the Reich/Soviet Union though. Drucker, Moredicai, and Straha all had good PoV's here. Molotov was still good.

Homeward bound was 90% horseshit and 10% good material, OK went over it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 07, 2008, 03:51:07 AM
http://peterahlstrom.blogspot.com/2008/08/rolling-up-wheel-of-time-panel.html

More information about a memory of light. It looks like it'll be 600k words. I can't wait! It's due out in 13 months.

Touches on a lot of general series information too. Rather nice. (We also get confirmation that Galad's meeting up with Perrin at the start of AMOL, but that wasn't exactly hard to figure out.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on September 08, 2008, 08:35:17 PM
Been recollecting various Discworld books sense I lost the majority of my collection a while back. Been sticking primarily to the Night Watch saga (best one, really!), but am toying with other random books.

As per usual, even on rereads, Pratchett's rhetoric is pretty unmatched in pure awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 09, 2008, 08:35:57 AM
Illuminatus!  - Finished finally.  This series is pure unadulterated awesome and it is such a massively sexy piece of jaded leftist literature.  It has the high goals of every leftist movement ever and the incredible low expectations of people that every cynic has and every leftist that has been burned by the people.  Very lovely piece on the Anarchist movement for all that it is still a pipe dream.

Wonderfully damning and brilliantly funny with layers upon layers of subtle setup and all while not taking itself remotely serious (like every good cynic should. I mean melodrama?  Please, that shit is tired.)

Thank you very much for reccomending it Hal (of all people!  Hal reccomends me the greatest piece of anarchist literature I have read).  Just generally good times.  If you have any taste at all for irony and have payed attention to politics in the last fifty years then you must read this.  A love for Lovecraft only helps.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on September 09, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
Yes. Hal and I are both Illuminatus! fans. Granted, I was somehow under the impression you had read it as well, else I'd have also supported reading it. It is an awesome, awesome book, yes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 09, 2008, 02:03:06 PM
I hadn't read it yet, I just talk like that normally when people get me into politics.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on September 10, 2008, 03:07:30 PM
Red Mars- Picked this up on Grefter's recommendation. Good stuff. Excellent characters, hard sci-fi. A bit... I dunno, pedantic? if I can call it that? for my taste, but the characters more than made up for it. Sort of like a Lord of the Rings for Sci-Fi, but one thats actually readable. Has that history textbook feel, is what I'm trying to get at. Rather than critique the plot, I'll go with the characters, since they are the plot.

SPOILERS BEYOND THIS POINT


Maya- Crazy bitch, but a believable one. Competant exterior hides a woman who doesn't know what she wants, and never will. Still fun as hell to watch.

Frank- Awesome. Kind of a dick. Okay, not kind of, a huge one. A likable one, at least. Definately redeems himself after the whole John thing, and it's really interesting to see him come around from how he thought John was acting to thinking exactly how John did. Liked the stuff between him and the Arabs. I'm at odds about his death. I don't think it did his character justice, but it definately highlighted how far he came that he'd sacrifice himself like that. Go, idiot, go.

John- Found myself a liking him a lot more than I thought I would based on the first chapter. His faux-detective story was amusing. Showed him for what he is. Well-intentioned, not always bright or successful, but still cunning in his own right and charismatic as hell.

Nadia- Awesome. Nothing like a construction woman. Bonus points for being, I think, the most stable character.

Arkady- All kinds of awesome. Someone needs to run as a Bodganovist for President. I'd vote for them. REALLY sad to see him go. His relationship with Nadia was excellently done.

Hiroko- Crazy bitch.

Ann- I oddly began to feel bad for her as the book went along. Can't say I disagree with her in theory.

Sax- A neat look at the level-headed scientist archetype. Especially near the end when he was becoming a bit unglued.

Phyllis- Bitch. Next.

Michel- Kind of a wasted character. The Homesick chapter was neat, but a waste of words anytime after that.

The Coyote- A dumb X-factor.

Oh yeah, before I forget. OLD PEOPLE SEX. Lots of it. Damn you Grefter. You tricked me.


Gonna pick up Green Mars soon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 10, 2008, 10:01:55 PM
Old people sex rings true as the hang up of Kim Stanley Robinson throught all the series, but it is decidedly not pornographic, it is just another part of the humanist approach the book takes.  Of course the author absolutely denies that it is "humanist science fiction", which I guess is fair enough depending on how you want to cut the semantics.

Hopefully you like Green Mars as well, watching the shift of focus to other characters makes stuff more interesting and the archetypes the characters are based on get more and more blured (Which really starts about half way through the book after everyone is introduced and actually isolated on Mars where there is no way for Earth to fuck with them anymore or so they think and they can be themselves.

Ann really only gets better after she takes a massive plummet (awesome characterisation, but for about a quarter of the next book she goes in directions that I can't respect.  Sympathise with it, but not respect), only to peak back up when she gets her shit together. 

Oh and Coyote gets some actual character straight up in Green Mars, so it gets less silly.

The books are just awesome.  Also Bogdanov is a muddle of some old russian dudes, Wiki says Arkady Strugatsky and Alexander Bogdanov.  I believe Arkady's politics is somewhat Similar to the real Bogdanov's.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on September 20, 2008, 11:01:55 PM
Picked up the first three Discworld books today after all the hype I've heard for them. Here's hoping they live up to it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 20, 2008, 11:27:41 PM
Aaaaaaaaand hype roll failed.

They are good books, but Colour of Magic, Light Fantastic and... Equal Rites I believe is third(?) are not the best.  Good, but it feels to me like Pratchett lacks the  confidence in himself as a writer to do nearly as good a parody for a few books after that.

Still with the volume of pulp fantasy you and Jenna consume I am sure you will get a bit of a kick out of them.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on September 21, 2008, 02:32:54 AM
Seconding Grefter. Mort (book four) is the first excellent entry in the series, in my opinion. Again, this doesn't mean the first three are bad, just...not Pratchett's best work.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on September 25, 2008, 06:17:37 PM
On another King hitch. Started off with The Shining, since I'd never read the book. Excellent stuff, definitely unsettles you in a general sort of way. I know King had a whole flap about the movie, but I can't see how one would be able to make a movie that'd entirely do the book justice though. Kubrick's version, I think, was still awesome and about as good as you can make movie of the book. Don't see how you could make the movie both scary and true to the book without it being like 4 hours long. The different approach Kubrick took to Jack's madness worked and while a lot of stuff was left out, it's better to make a solid movie rather than overreach with a garbled mess.

But it's good to at least know what half that shit at the end was (man in the dog suit, etc). Not a bad way of giving a nod to the people who read the book, because even if you don't know what they all are, not knowing what it all is/means actually makes it more unnerving. Also interesting to know the scene with the two girls and the blood from the elevator was added for the movie.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on September 25, 2008, 06:31:46 PM
Well, I enjoyed Color of Magic and Light Fantastic well enough, and Equal Rites is shaping up to be interesting, so if it only gets better from here, I think I'll end up picking up the whole series sooner or later.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 25, 2008, 10:05:24 PM
Good.  Sourcery always got me a bit blah when I was younger, but when I listened to it again this year I was suprised at it being better than I thought.

Witches only get better after Equal Rites.  Granny Weatherwax isn't fully fleshed out idea in Equal Rites but is really in form next time she comes up.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on September 25, 2008, 11:48:34 PM
Winter's Heart:  Lots of things happened in this book, but you can sum it all up with RAND HAS SEX WITH EVERYONE.

Also, I correctly guessed the race of the Daughter of the Nine Moons several books ago.  Yay me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on September 29, 2008, 05:04:14 AM
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. - This really is everything Warren Ellis said it was. To quote: "It is people getting kicked, and then exploding. It is a pure comic book, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. And afterwards, they will explode." It also has airborne attack koalas.

ALSO: Per Wikipedia, this is canon what the hell.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 29, 2008, 08:53:57 AM
Of course it is canon.  It is only Warren Ellis if it isn't forcing you to take something so completely over the top ridiculous seriously when you really don't want to (Which is awesome).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 04, 2008, 02:09:21 AM
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. - What Shale said.  Yeah that was awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 12, 2008, 11:48:38 PM
Following up on Nextwave hype, I started reading Transmetropolitan yesterday and am currently in issue 28. In many ways, it makes Nextwave look sedate and restrained. And that is awesome.

Edit: volume 30 now, halfway through. The Lonely City arc freaking ruled.

Edit again: "I hate Nazi sex midgets" may be the single best line anyone has ever written.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 13, 2008, 08:55:56 AM
Yeah I also am reading it as well, it is pretty sexy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 13, 2008, 10:52:38 PM
....and finished. That was really damned good, aside from the occasional "Warren Ellis turns Spider into his mouthpiece for a 22-page rant" chapter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 14, 2008, 11:15:17 AM
Meh, I will take the 22 page Author avatar over 11 pages of him beating Fred Christ with a chair.  Fucking tired of that plot by the end.  But yeah it has been fun.  I dunno if I would say overall it is a really great comic (Action Kung Fu Journalist go! is over the top, but fun.), not like say Watchmen, or probably not even Hellboy, but eh it is different and I will like it just for that.  Much better than The Authority though, it being all Ellis the whole time helps immensely of course.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 14, 2008, 04:31:13 PM
Oh, yeah, it's definitely not worth taking seriously; that's why the author-rant chapters annoyed me. Gag violence like the Chair Leg Of Truth you can just laugh at, skim, and move on, and there's stuff like the Editor Ex Machina near the end that's objectively worse storytelling but works with the overall flow anyway ("I will get a large pillowcase, and tell them to fill it with drugs."), but the religion and transhumanism chapters is Ellis presenting his actual views on what he considers an important real-life issue, which didn't fit in at all with the general tone of the thing. Plus I've got a soft spot for refuge-in-audacity stuff, this is not news.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 14, 2008, 10:05:04 PM
Deus Ex Editor bothered me less than the brain damage thing.  It should have been a good setup wince they introduced the Information pollen thing early and slipped it under the radar (which is a recurring point of good writing in the series, it handles Chekhov's gun with extreme subtlety), but the whole thing was just a bit meh and having the ending while fitting to Spider I guess is just kind of pointless I felt.  Would have just been better to not have it and have more screen time of him shooting MIBs or something.  Probably helps that I really liked Mitch Royce though with the Des Ex Editor bit being a nice cap stone to the character.

Edit - Note I liked the chair leg of truth, I just wish it wasn't Fred Christ.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 14, 2008, 11:02:45 PM
Oh, Royce's character was great, and I can tell you from experience that what he was talking about really is how a good editor sees his job, so I loved how he behaved in that chapter. It was only when I looked over the plot of that chapter again that I started thinking "wait, he just has a magic editor button that makes the whole last arc go away, that's rubbish."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 15, 2008, 02:17:00 PM
Well yeah that kind of was blah, but that is the exact same thing I am saying with the Information Pollen thing as well, just Deus Ex Editor has at least some character development outside of "Spider is a bit of a tool and WHAO SPIDER DOES AWESOME".

Anyway, continuing on with the Gonzo Journalism splurge.

Going Postal, by Mark Ames - This was finally in at Borders so I could pick it up.  19 pages in and it is already absolutely enthralling.  The path and situation of a Rage Murder Spree carefully researched and reconstructed to show the social situation the murderer was in to try and understand what would make them do it, ultimately placing the blame (fairly justifiabley) on the shoulder of Ronald Reagan and the venomous disgusting economic environment he created.  A really good read.  I will dig up the link to the excerpt of it in the Exile archives when I finish the book I think.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on October 15, 2008, 09:32:51 PM
Midnight Tides: A solid continuation... except there's all of one character I know from this.

This book could almost fit as a prequel to the entire set thus far, which is impressive. Either that or between books 3 and 4.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 20, 2008, 09:00:40 PM
Judith Butler - Gender Trouble.

I'm not going to go into what is said in the book, interesting though it is.  I will instead say this.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU WRITE A BOOK ABOUT GENDER AND SEXUALITY WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE BIOLOGY BEHIND IT?  I mean holy FUCK.  I get why feminist theory tries to avoid the idea that Biology is the sole determiner of a person's disposition, but Jesus CHRIST.   How can you write a book full of ideas that presuppose that the mind--and thus all this psychological and developmental bullshit you're talking about--is some sort of entity wholly detached from the body?  Hell, even detached from the biological brain.  Human beings are not clean slates that can be influenced entirely by societal influences god damn it. 

Holy crap.  This is what pisses me off about most sociology, the complete refusal in some areas to acknowledge the part that Biology plays in development.  It's still a very interesting book with very interesting ideas but just holy crap asdfkl;ajsdf;alsjdfnnotarticulateenoughrightnowtofullyconveywhythisannoysmesomuchasdfahjkuliyffcc aathygjrgddfasdfsoyougetthisinsteada;sdkljfas;dlkfj
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 20, 2008, 11:47:56 PM
Judith Butler has been around discussing it long enough that she has already covered biology behind it in another book.  Also in Sociology circles Gender is a social construct and a disposition, not a physical attribute.  Sex is when they are referring to male and female, masculine and feminine are seperate entities.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 21, 2008, 09:27:32 AM
I was well aware of the latter; this does not mean that a discussion of gender that excludes sex entirely should not be criticized for that.  It's the same sort of semantics BS that makes it hard for me to take other detached-from-physical-world theories (thinking Sapir-Whorf hypothesis territory here) seriously.  At least at first, anyway, because the justification behind those types of theories only makes sense after reading into it more...  In any case, I guess I will have to read more Butler to see how she ties biology into her argument.  Should be interesting, even if it doesn't make me less skeptical.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 21, 2008, 01:25:26 PM
From memory in my Feminism units she fairly consistently came off as one of the level headed figures in the field.

One of the things I found helpful when going into stuff is that while you acknowledge that the biology plays a part in it, but remember that it shows up in scientific studies as an incredibly minor (if even significant) in most areas when studies are done on a purely biological standpoint and untainted from external bias.  You need to examine things from an entirely detached from the physical world because labelling, social constructs and all the big central themes that come up in Feminism tend to be things that are actually entirely detached from the physical world.  What is Feminine and what is Masculine is an entirely man made thing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 21, 2008, 11:31:18 PM
Hm, I suppose; I still find it hard to believe that biology doesn't play much of a role given how hormonal im/balances can effect various aspects of a person's personality, but then again I can't recall having read anything that examines how things like that extend to the construction of identity and so forth so you probably have a point.  I'd be tempted to bring up evolutionary biology and instincts into it, too, but the closest example I can think of that would relate is the Pit of Dispair/Monkey Torture experiment I came across which... doesn't support that argument at all.

Probably just one of those issues that will make more sense the more I read up on it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 22, 2008, 12:16:26 AM
Yeah with regards to evolutionary biology, well what do you think is going to have a greater overall effect on a persons day to day life.  The Hunter Gatherer society with basic needs that needed to be met for survival or the last 6000 years of social norms we have built up since the dawn of civilization.  Edit - Not to say it wasn't an influence, it is the basis for a large part of the norms, but it is the norms holding us in place, not the biology behind it at this point.

Ultimately all Feminist rhetoric should boil down to is that even with minor differences between the sexes/genders none are large enough to disqualify anyone from having potential to do anything or performing at tasks at acceptable levels compared to others of the opposite sex/gender.  There could be some room for deconstructing the concept of gender and blurring the lines and whatnot but meh, it ultimately acheives little beyond loosening up Sexuality somewhat, when you have equality between the genders the need to do that is decreased a lot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 22, 2008, 02:39:31 PM
Ultimately all Feminist rhetoric should boil down to is that even with minor differences between the sexes/genders none are large enough to disqualify anyone from having potential to do anything or performing at tasks at acceptable levels compared to others of the opposite sex/gender.  There could be some room for deconstructing the concept of gender and blurring the lines and whatnot but meh, it ultimately acheives little beyond loosening up Sexuality somewhat, when you have equality between the genders the need to do that is decreased a lot.

Well, yeah, but as to the former... that doesn't mean that there AREN'T differences, which seems to be claimed in some theory and is mainly what I take issue with.  That's falling into the Moralistic fallacy (I think that's what it's called), that leads to the idea that just because we ought to treat everyone equally means that there aren't biological differences between us.  Though this fallacy is a fair deal better than its opposite it's still a faulty logic.  Still, biology might not play as much of a role I'm inclined to believe it does so yeah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on October 22, 2008, 02:58:38 PM
Speaking of the subject, I think I'll mention an author that I've liked for a while. If anyone's heard of her/read her books, maybe you can chime in too.

Elizabeth Moon's been one of my favorite Sci-Fi authors for a while now. It's actually rather on the hard sci-fi side for the adventure type. Interesting stuff. The main characters are always women, and I would almost call it Feminist sci-fi except for one thing... the male characters are incredibly competent.

Hell, all the characters are, to a fault. You get the idea why, due to the demands of actually using a ship in outer space, especially in battle. Yet, they're flawed, make bad calls, etc. The pivotal characters on the good side are always women, and the villains are also balanced well between men and women so there isn't much RAR MEN ARE EVIL. I like to call it empowered sci-fi more than feminist sci-fi, since she's incredibly fair on both sexes, but it's easy to see the slant she's taking.

There are 6-7 books, which start with the Herris Serrano trilogy. All interwoven, a lot of cause and effect. The structure is very well done, as are the characters. Her writing really picks up after the third book, where she starts on a new main character. Recurring characters abound too, and there is more actual character development than you can shake a stick at. Characters are the right ages too! None of this 19 year old Captain stuff! Herris Serrano, the main character of the first trilogy, is a 40 year old Naval Captain. Esmay Suiza, the second main character after Herris' trilogy, is a 34 year old Naval Sergeant.

Oh, the books also teach you never to trust old women. But who would trust OK anyway?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 22, 2008, 03:09:37 PM
Niu?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 22, 2008, 03:29:22 PM
Niu.

And sounds like a decent piece of Feminist literature.  Empowered is ~= Feminism again.

All signs point to there being some incredibly minor differences in the ways male and female brains can handle different tasks on average.  They are just that though, minor differences that are on average.  They ultimately mean little and most tests you run into that will show some large significant result in the difference between male and female performance in say different subjects in high school (Common classical thing being the different capabilities in females and males in Language and Spatial stuff) which is pretty much going to be so steeped in social norms it is nigh impossible to show a biological causal relationship.

That is the huge thing really.  The social norms are almost as impossible a variable to remove from an experiment as the sex is.  Although I suppose that could be an interesting experiment to see what kind of effect the gender that the subject identifies with has on test results on average.  I can imagine it now.  Thousands upon thousands of trannies doing spatial maths in the name of science.  Edit - Of course the lack of evidence doesn't disprove a biological effect, but I doubt there is some kind of "Not being in the kitchen making some pie" gene associated with the Y chromosome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 22, 2008, 07:13:25 PM
Well, part of what makes makes me inclined to think there is some biological process that affects our construction of gender norms is this:  For the innumerous, diverse societies that existed in the pre-globalized (and thus, I would imagine, before social mores and norms became nigh-universal in the first world) world, I don't think there are any maternalistic societies.  Now, I fully realize that this could be due to a number of reasons (the most likely of which is that because women are basically out of commission for at least 7 months for pregnancy, prehistoric tribes had to rely on men to fight off threats if a majority of women were pregnant, and that had an effect on the development of social norms and...

I think I just answered my own dillema; perhaps hunter-gatherer societies developed off of this basis so there WAS an initial biological basis for it but had nothing to do with hormonally or evolutionary influenced dispositions but instead just arose on the basis of how early tribes worked and now has no basis in the modern day because the majority of us aren't trying to scare off lions and tigers and bears to survive and pregnancy isn't nearly so much of a handicap as it was back then and run on sentences.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on October 23, 2008, 12:20:52 AM
Soppy: I've read a little Elizabeth Moon. One with Esmay Suiza, but it was many many years ago and damned if I can remember the name. There was some kind of judicial hearing early on and the main plot was about those berserker people trying to take over the ship.

Moon's M.O. seems to be military fiction, above all. From the book I read, there was a great emphasis on detailing the lifestyle and routine of people living and working in a military environment. I got the same impression from what little I read of The Deed of Paksennarion before getting bored of it. Granted, the fact that men and women go about their work together without anyone making an issue of it or even contemplating the possibility of innate differences in suitability conveys the ideal of respectable feminism far better than beating the reader with sermons ever could.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 23, 2008, 12:48:12 AM
Well, part of what makes makes me inclined to think there is some biological process that affects our construction of gender norms is this:  For the innumerous, diverse societies that existed in the pre-globalized (and thus, I would imagine, before social mores and norms became nigh-universal in the first world) world, I don't think there are any maternalistic societies.  Now, I fully realize that this could be due to a number of reasons (the most likely of which is that because women are basically out of commission for at least 7 months for pregnancy, prehistoric tribes had to rely on men to fight off threats if a majority of women were pregnant, and that had an effect on the development of social norms and...

I think I just answered my own dillema; perhaps hunter-gatherer societies developed off of this basis so there WAS an initial biological basis for it but had nothing to do with hormonally or evolutionary influenced dispositions but instead just arose on the basis of how early tribes worked and now has no basis in the modern day because the majority of us aren't trying to scare off lions and tigers and bears to survive and pregnancy isn't nearly so much of a handicap as it was back then and run on sentences.

Got it in one.

Quote
Granted, the fact that men and women go about their work together without anyone making an issue of it or even contemplating the possibility of innate differences in suitability conveys the ideal of respectable feminism far better than beating the reader with sermons ever could.

And again, like I have been saying for years whenever it comes up, this is what actual Feminism is about.  Society has developped a masochistic aversion to it the same way it has for Unionism.  OH MY GOD THERE IS THIS POSITIVE THING IN SOCIETY KILL IT.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on October 23, 2008, 11:38:24 PM
Finished reading Henry Ossawa Tanner: American Artist by Marcia M. Mathews.

It's for my research paper; I'll open Henry Ossawa Tanner: A Spiritual Biography by Marcus Bruce. I could go on for ages about my commentary on the former book, but I'll save that for my professor.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on October 24, 2008, 12:35:57 AM
Soppy: I've read a little Elizabeth Moon. One with Esmay Suiza, but it was many many years ago and damned if I can remember the name. There was some kind of judicial hearing early on and the main plot was about those berserker people trying to take over the ship.

Moon's M.O. seems to be military fiction, above all. From the book I read, there was a great emphasis on detailing the lifestyle and routine of people living and working in a military environment. I got the same impression from what little I read of The Deed of Paksennarion before getting bored of it. Granted, the fact that men and women go about their work together without anyone making an issue of it or even contemplating the possibility of innate differences in suitability conveys the ideal of respectable feminism far better than beating the reader with sermons ever could.

Yeah, that was Once a Hero, the first book with Esmay Suiza as a main character. First one I read too. I really thought I'd understand the first part of the book much better after I read the book with the Xavier incident in it... it's not much, and Suiza is in maybe about a chapter. You understand why the Bloodhorde attack the ship though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on October 26, 2008, 01:59:00 AM
Been reading online writing again.

I'll ignore short stories and stuff that's not especially noteworthy.

Kate Draffen -- Is crap for chapters 1-9.  Came across as a cheesy science fiction gimmick with OK execution, but not much depth past that.  I remember when the story was first posted the author asking "should I continue this story?" and me thinking "doesn't matter to me".  Chapters 10-17 start getting pretty interesting, but the main character is being very safe and cautious.  Chapters 18-28 (ongoing)...very emotionally powerful stuff, using a lot of the seemingly one-dimensional characters that were set up in part 1.  The recent updates have consistently impressed me.

Letters From Sky -- Is very unusual.  The entire story is the email outbox of this 13-year-old character.  What really jumped out at me about this writing was the strength of the author's cliffhangers.  It's also surprisingly dark: just about everything happens or has happened to this kid, but at the same time it actually all fits together like a psychological puzzle so none of the shocking events are really forced.  Generally speaking what drives me in novel formats is my emotional connection with the characters, but I didn't feel much of a connection with characters who have only been described from the blatantly biased perspective of a 13-year-old...which really only leaves the main character.  Fortunately it's hard not to like Sky.  Well...okay, let me qualify that: Sky is an angsty, feminine, crippled teenager.  If your name is Super, you probably won't like Sky.  (For the record, the angst moments are justified, and the cripple part is temporary).  Regardless, extremely strong storytelling instincts from the author that kept me reading even when I was a little turned off by the fact that "email format" isn't within my comfort zone for narrative style.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 26, 2008, 03:37:52 AM
Sky is an angsty, feminine, crippled teenager.  If your name is Super, you probably are Sky.  (For the record, the angst moments are because you fail.
Corrected.

Going Postal - This continues to be absolutely damnin of Reaganomics and the environment it has created leaving me wondering what the fuck have we done to ourselves as a society.  Fantastic read, incredibly humanising of the people that commit rage murders without condoning the action itself, it just explains them without just putting it down to an inherent evil of the people that did it.  Well researched and incredibly dark wit throughout.  Awesome read, worth buying.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on October 27, 2008, 12:53:05 AM
Sky is an angsty, feminine, crippled teenager.  If your name is Super, you probably are Sky.  (For the record, the angst moments are because you fail.
Corrected.
Don't be silly, Grefter.  Super can't be Sky.  Sky is likeable. >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 27, 2008, 01:08:01 AM
Aww look, it's the tranny in a skirt and metroid trying to insult me.  (Don't mind me, I feel legally obligated to respond.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on October 28, 2008, 05:41:14 AM
Damnit Grefter, now I'm tempted to download the letters in text format, and find/replace "Sky" with "Super".  I can't even begin to explain how wrong that would be.  It's made worse by my wondering who the other characters could be cast as...(sexual tension between Super and...uhh...probably Zenny, since I'm not sure who else has enough libido to be cast in that role.  Regardless, x_x).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 28, 2008, 08:50:03 AM
Going Postal - So I am up to the first part which there is an excerpt online and as I read it I really want to share it with people.

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7948&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=17749

So here is the link.  Read it and enjoy.  It is just brilliant writing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 07, 2008, 04:43:51 AM
Wheel of Time series:  finished.

Let's start with the rants, because it's easier to remember things you disliked.

First, overly long prologues.  In most cases the prologue was more than 10% of the book's length.  Seriously, chapter breaks are good things.  Use them.

Next, TOO MANY CHARACTERS.  "Seven Aes Sedai rode up.  First was Blahga of the Green Ajah, then Blabba of the Blue, then Blakka of the Yellow...  Blahga's warders Billy Joe, Joe Billy, and Reynaldo... they gave their horses to the stableboy Goober and the other stableboy Doober.  Goober and Doober removed the saddles from Blahga's horse Windfarter, then from Blabba's horse Sunpisser..."  Characters show up indeed.

I didn't really see the misogyny that other people claim is present in Jordan's writings.  His female characters aren't as interesting as the males, but he certainly doesn't seem to hate them.

What Jordan did right was create a fully breathing world.  There are rules to the magic and how things work, and he doesn't deviate from them.

My favorite character from the series was, perhaps surprisingly, Asmodean.  He provided an interesting look at the kind of person who was drawn to the Great Lord's power.  Despite the conditions of the situation he was put into, I felt he really was on Rand's side after a while.  My second favorite character was Tuon, because she is a manipulative bitch.

The three boys are really well-done characters also, and the story dragged when one of them wasn't involved.

Unresolved issues:  SPOILARZ AHEAD

Verin:  Whose side is she on?  At times she seems to scream Black Ajah, but at other times she does things that directly oppose them.  She almost seems to be some kind of third party, but... there isn't really a third party in the conflict (that we know of).  Unless she's an Eelfinn.  :)

Ta'veren:  When the boys are introduced as ta'veren, everyone nods and accepts that as a perfectly natural occurance (other than Tuon).  If ta'veren are so common that they're a household word, shouldn't there be more somewhere?  Logain is kind of ta'veren-like, but I think they explicitly state that he's not.  Noal (who apparently is Jain Farstrider) also may be, due to the comment he makes when first meeting Mat ("We both seem to have the Dark One's own luck.").  But he doesn't seem to be drawing any unnatural things his way currently.  So why aren't there any more?

Mazraim Taim:  Well, he's not really unresolved.  The comment he makes at the end of Book 11 pretty much guarantees he's a Darkfriend.

Rand's eyesight problem:  This was only touched on briefly.  But is he somehow tapping into the True Power and acquiring saa?

Anyway, good series overall, and I continue to find the last sentence of About the Author amusing every time I read it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 07, 2008, 04:51:37 AM
The prolouges are often the only looks at the forsaken and other differing viewpoints. Definitely enjoy those in all the novels.

Verin- Is not a dark friend. She very explicitly avoids lying in the Path of Daggers prologue and some of her earlier actions (She gives Egwene the dream ter'angreal but not the notes) also hint towards it. I think she knows something about the last battle-

Ta'veren- Basically are spun out when the wheel needs heroes. Jordan's said they can't be darkfriends and they're pretty much a way for the pattern to balance the advantages the bad guys have. Or: The only three of note in the main story are the boys.

Rand- Speculation is that Rand's post 7 book sickness is from some weird merging with Moradin from the dual balefire streams in Shadar Logoth. We do know Rand does go blind for a time, so that would make sense.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on November 07, 2008, 05:00:23 AM
The general issue with Jordan females is that tend to come across as massive misandrist (ie man-hating) and generally exceptionally assertive.  Or, in simpler terms, that he writes females as man-hating bitches which is then taken as a statement against women.

Hard to say how accurate that really is, but certainly the balance of power between the genders is a recurring issue in the books (clearest example is the Aes Sedai and how they treat men in general), which is going to ruffle feathers either way.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on November 07, 2008, 06:16:06 AM
The counterpoint is that of the major female protagonists, the closest we have to misandry is Nynave and Elaida.  One is prickly towards everyone, and Elaida is generally shown to be less than competant and not precisely a role model either.  And the Red Ajah doesn't really count considering what their profession is.  Something like that is bound to be very attractive to those who don't especially care for men in the first place.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 07, 2008, 01:35:57 PM
There is misogyny in writing all the women with almost the same 2 personalities of varying shades along that basic scale, pretty much every male to female interaction functions on an extremely narrow approach.  I don't think it was sexism any more than just one of his down sides as a writer though.

Logain isn't quite a Ta'veren, there is varying degrees in importance to the pattern though and he (like many other main characters) are very important to the weave.  While they may not practically warp reality by existing, they are rocks in the storm that normal people cling to.

And just have to chime in with the fact that I am not a fan on Mazrim Taim plot, it has run its course already and still isn't resolved.  If one of his regents had done the shit he had done Rand would have had them done away with at this point quite frankly.  He doesn't need him with Logain.  Why he couldn't spare the 10 minutes to open up a gate inside Taim's belly and set Logain loose on his left over pets is quite simply beyond me.  It is somethign I was waiting to be sorted out the whole time I was reading the second last book.  All that is left is for us to wait for the inevitable betrayal at Tarmon Gaidon now and that is just going to be dull from all I can see, the drama will be entirely hollow because Taim has been pretty explicitly a scummy fuck since he first turned up, he practically may as well have a top hat, waxed moustache and tie maidens down in front of the newly invented horseless carts.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 07, 2008, 01:47:39 PM
Taim's going to be dealt with before that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 07, 2008, 02:01:57 PM
Which brings to question, if it is going to be dealt with prior to Tarmon Gaidon why the fuck wasn't it dealt with last book?  Losing half his Ashaman at that point is just as devestating to his overall plan as it is later on just prior to the event.  It is one of his pacing flaws showing up again.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 07, 2008, 07:40:37 PM
Yeah, not going to argue that point. Taim should have been dealt with in book 11. (The book 11 stuff should've been in book 10, same with the Perrin arc). Oh well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 15, 2008, 03:42:04 AM
Twilight:  Movie's coming out, figured I check out the book and see what the hype is about.  Teenage girl + vampires?  Yeah, this is gonna be terrible...

... and it's not terrible.  In fact, it's damned good.  Really good writing style, and it doesn't contain emo angst like every other book with vampires ever.  Literally couldn't put the book down, and am already planning to go to the store tomorrow and get the rest of the books.  Yeah, it's that good.

Seems like it would adapt to a movie fairly well, so here's hoping the movie doesn't suck.  Ha ha.  Suck... Vampires...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 15, 2008, 04:26:10 AM
Twilight:  Movie's coming out, figured I check out the book and see what the hype is about.  Teenage girl + vampires?  Yeah, this is gonna be terrible...

... and it's not terrible.  In fact, it's damned good.  Really good writing style, and it doesn't contain emo angst like every other book with vampires ever.  Literally couldn't put the book down, and am already planning to go to the store tomorrow and get the rest of the books.  Yeah, it's that good.

Seems like it would adapt to a movie fairly well, so here's hoping the movie doesn't suck.  Ha ha.  Suck... Vampires...

And, aside from the "can't put it down," that was the complete opposite of my experience.

I thought the storytelling was good, and it was well-paced, but as I remarked to Andrew after I finished it, it sounded like someone on FictionPress wrote it to fulfill their vampire fantasies. And I just don't see how or why it deserves a movie.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fudozukushi on November 15, 2008, 04:56:19 AM
Ha.  Everyone I know who talked about Twilight hated it remarkably.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on November 15, 2008, 05:26:18 AM
Doesn't help that the commercials make the movie look like it has the worst acting ever.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on November 15, 2008, 06:21:41 PM
Book was ok. Bella/Edward may give off Richard/Kahlan vibes and I can see why it might be popular to hate the series because of that but Jasper/Alice and Carlisle were quite awesme~
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 15, 2008, 06:30:49 PM
Bella/Edward may give off Richard/Kahlan vibes and I can see why it might be popular to hate the series

You mean other than the fact that is about vampires and most of the imagery surrounding it is pretty much packaged as returfed Anne Rice right?  (Not saying anything about the books, just the way they are put out there)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 21, 2008, 09:58:52 PM
New Moon:  Okay, remember all the emo angst that wasn't in Twilight?  They saved it up and cram it into the first half of this one.  And it's practically unbearable.  Bella, get a fucking life.

And then Jacob comes along and the book picks up along with Bella's spirits.  The second half of the book is quite good.  Aro for the win.

One thing I like about these books is that they're in the style of the "classic" romances.  Twilight is an homage to Pride and Prejudice, and this one is Romeo and Juliet.  I'm guessing the third one will be Wuthering Heights...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 22, 2008, 12:37:33 AM
Going Postal - So yeah I have finished this.  It is an amazing read that I really have to hold up along the same lines as Discipline and Punishment: Birth of the Prison by Foucault.  This is incredibly high praise.  Just the formatting though, to start from a singular early point in history and extrapolate the effects of them and the other phenomenon showing how they have developped and what causes them.  Where Foucault did it for the Prison system and schools and the medical institution Mark Ames has done it for slavery, Reaganomics, workplace and school massacres (which the book is about obviously) and goes on to show how it even just is the cause of increased stress at high school which leads to cheating and all the other fun ick stuff that is going on at high schools (especially upper middle class ones).

The latter half of the book and its close examination of the fallout of Columbine and the other massacres prior to it and after it along with September 11 2001's effect on the school Massacre phenomenon will ring incredibly true with people in my age range who were old enough to be in high school at the time of the Columbine massacre and the zero tolerance over the top security fears that came with it.  It is really an amazing read, his writing style is calm and very basic vocabulary unlike Foucault which makes the work far more approachable and not just a book for Sociologists (this makes sense, Mark Ames is a journalist).

Absolutely highly reccomend this book to anyone with an interest in what makes people tick and modern society.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 02, 2008, 12:15:48 AM
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/blog/732/300k WoT info.

Also, finished Mistborn. Sanderson's a good writer (Eh at battle scenes, but oh well). Really thought he did a good job with both the setting and the magic in this world. A dystopian fantasy setting done well? Coooooool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on December 05, 2008, 11:33:19 PM
Discipline and Punish - Borrowed this from work today. Just starting it. 'bout time I got started on something by Foucault.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 06, 2008, 12:29:21 AM
Been reading the Wayfarer Redemption because I found the first one a couple months ago when I was bored and waiting for Andrew while conveniently next to a bookstore. It was interesting enough, so I finished it a little while ago, then picked up books 2 and 3.

My editing brain was on fire from trying to hold the brakes down. These things have MASSIVELY bad editing for an MPPB. Dropped periods (hahah), improper formatting, changing spelling, missing/wrong punctuation... argh. There are at least 3-4 mistakes PER CHAPTER, and this is an epic fantasy series we're talking about here. That's a lot of mistakes.

Once I managed to get past THAT, however, I found a series which is pretty much like every other epic fantasy series ever written. World in peril, Prophecy Walking, caricature of EBIL Christianity, foreign races based on common fantasy tropes (not gnomes and dwarves and elves, but people who live in the trees and have Tree Magic and people with wings who have magic), gods among men, strong women, rags to riches, et cetera. The only thing that keeps me interested -- and it has done so enough that I've purchased the fourth book -- is the particular weave of the mythos. There's something about the world and the history of it and its particular brand of magic and its manifestation that has me so intrigued I'm willing to shut up the part of my brain which dies a little every time there is a misspelled location. I mean, dude. I get typos. They happen. But changing the name of your city to something similar but then not making sure all future references to that city are the same word? NOT COOL.

...

Yeah. Also reading Mercedes Lackey's Joust series. Dragons + jousting = win! I have a weak spot for friendly dragon stories (except, no, I refuse to touch Tamora Pierce) and these read STRONGLY like Jane Yolen's Pit Dragon trilogy, complete with the desert landscape, the raising of dragons for fighting and profit, and the political strife. I think I'm liking the overall story in the Joust series more than in the Pit Dragon trilogy just because there's something that squicks me out about reading from the point of view of guerillas and rebels.

Dunno.

Anyway. On book 2 in that series now.

I think the main reason I read so much fantasy is because I read so damn fast and I hate trying to find a new series. I'm a really loyal reader and when I find an author I like, I stick with them until I've read up everything they've written. Then I mope about despondently looking at other books when I go to the bookstore until some happenstance introduces me to something new.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on December 06, 2008, 03:13:03 AM
Lady Door go read Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Erikson (Steve, I believe).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on December 06, 2008, 05:59:36 AM
Thanks for summing up why no one should read The Wayfarer Redemption. That's always a valuable  public service.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 06, 2008, 06:19:52 AM
I think the main reason I read so much fantasy is because I read so damn fast and I hate trying to find a new series. I'm a really loyal reader and when I find an author I like, I stick with them until I've read up everything they've written. Then I mope about despondently looking at other books when I go to the bookstore until some happenstance introduces me to something new.

What series have you read and liked? The board overall probably covers a pretty broad spectrum, so you can probably get a few recommendations out of here.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 06, 2008, 07:18:35 AM
Tai: Wow that is quite a large series. o_o I'll have to see if I can find a copy of Gardens of the Moon at the used SF/F bookstore. Thinking from the description it may get a little too gritty for my tastes, but it's worth a look.

Shale: Sharing the painful experience is the only way to survive the memory of it. :p My continuation with the series is a study in literary masochism, I guess.

Dhyer: Oh good lord. What series have I read and liked? Um...

Unabashed Neil Gaiman fan-girl. Specifically, I absolutely adore Neverwhere (hence the board name, hurr) and really liked American Gods and, to a lesser extent, Anansi Boys. I own a lot of Sandman (still collecting the Complete volumes -- 1 down!) and seriously loved Endless Nights. (Says a lot because I don't normally enjoy American graphic novels too much. They feel so ... flat most of the time.) Also really loved Good Omens and I swear, one day, Andrew WILL read that damn book.

Speaking of: read an awful lot of Terry Pratchett and enjoyed. Particularly like the Sam Vimes stories (who doesn't?) and those involving Death.

Harry Potter. Totally unashamed to mention this and that I did the midnight releases for the last 4, including receiving the first copy of the final book at the store downtown (where my awesome English professor was also waiting for a copy).

Still waiting on the next book in Song of Ice & Fire.

Gave up on Wheel of Time around book 5 or 6. Will probably come back to it later, but I was pissed off at the circularity and how goddamn SLOW everything was. Still, I really loved the world and a few of the characters.

PERN! I mentioned I'm a sucker for friendly dragon stories, right? MARY SUE AND HER BEAUTIFUL SPESHUL SHINY DRAGON AHOY! Got into it around 7th grade and kept up with it through high school. It's not all bad -- it's what introduced me to internet fandom and online RP. (I know. That's more painfully dorky than D&D.) -- Also liked the Brain & Brawn series, the Crystal Singers, and a few books from the Talent series. I swear to god if anyone recommends something based off of those, though, I'll give up reading altogether.

The Dragon Quartet. I put up with the ridiculously heavy-handed environmentalist message because I liked Erde and Ndoc and the dragons.

The Death Gate Cycle. <3

Dragonlance Chronicles Trilogy. Just those three.

I've also read a number of one-shots and short stories thanks to leads like wandering randomly down the romance aisle looking for the corniest book ever, talking in the hallways waiting for office hours with a prof and getting recommendations of books to read for fun, short story mags like Analog and F&SF, and going "Hey, everyone's STILL talking about this book, maybe I should read it?"

I'm open for suggestions, but I'm picky for no goddamn reason, too. :P
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 06, 2008, 08:51:25 AM
If you like the pulp fantasy, get on to some Eddings.

I highly reccomend Robery Rankin if you are into surreal fiction. 

Also could give Kate Forsyth and Katherine Kerr a look.  Maggie Furey isn't bad for slightly more obscure stuff in that same pulpish field.

Edit - Oh yeah and if you want more of that sickly sweet Weiss and Hickman the Darksword trilogy is like a cheese pizza so fatty and sickening that you know you want to finish the whole thing even if it is horrible.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on December 06, 2008, 05:15:55 PM
Gritty? Yeah, Malazan Book of the Fallen does gritty some, as a warning. However, it's perhaps been one of my favorite fantasy reads thus far.

As a slight note, books 2 and 3 can be read in either order (2 and 3 both lead to 4; 3 continues 1's plot a bit more directly, but 2 deals with some of the main characters from 1) and 5 could arguably be read before the first four. He likes his parallel plots, though he keeps them confined in each book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on December 06, 2008, 05:31:01 PM
Seconding Grefter on Kerr. Quality pulp fiction that doesn't pretend to be much else.

I'll recommend C. S. Friedman because she is awesome. She's very good about delving deeply into the psychology of an individual and a culture simultaneously, exploring how the one shapes the other, etcetera. Coldfire trilogy is probably the place to start since that's functionally a fantasy series despite being set on another planet far in the future (she's usually a straight SF writer). Compelling antihero and a quirky take on the supernatural.

Also, China Mieville. I don't know what your tolerance level is for gritty, urban dystopias, but he's built a very lively one in New Crobuzon. I once heard it described as "What Middle Earth would look like if Mordor had won the war." Heavy dose of steampunk and a variety of novel methods on magic. Not exactly a continuous series, but he's written three books now in the same world and a lot of the same places/themes are shared.

EDIT: Reeding comprehenshun is gud. Apparently your tolerance level for gritty is low. Oh well! Maybe someone'll listen to me anyway.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 06, 2008, 05:40:45 PM
Quote
Gave up on Wheel of Time around book 5 or 6. Will probably come back to it later, but I was pissed off at the circularity and how goddamn SLOW everything was. Still, I really loved the world and a few of the characters.

;_;

Also, try Brandon Sanderson's mistborn series. I've just got into his works and I haven't been let down so far. Very enjoyable series, and he does a good job on his world building.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on December 06, 2008, 05:47:01 PM
Quote
Gave up on Wheel of Time around book 5 or 6. Will probably come back to it later, but I was pissed off at the circularity and how goddamn SLOW everything was. Still, I really loved the world and a few of the characters.

;_;

Emo Super want 2 cut self?

---

You said you were waiting for the next ASoIaF book, yeah?  Have you checked out Martin's "Dreamsongs" collection?  It's worth a read, if you like short stories.  Skip, like, half of the stories in the first book, though.  They're his earliest works and... ugh yeah teenagers can't write.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on December 06, 2008, 06:04:33 PM
Oh, on Martin: find a collection of the Haviland Tuf stories if at all possible. (I managed to nab a a volume titled Tuf Voyaging a few years ago but haven't seen the like since). It's really cool stuff. Pulp SF that hits on some fun themes and has a supremely memorable main character.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 06, 2008, 10:02:53 PM
Oh yeah I should note that Rankin isn't pulp fantasy.  I managed to reccomend Pulp, wacked out fucking nuts humor, pulp and then more pulp.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 07, 2008, 02:06:22 AM
Hmm, I might recommend Robin Hobb (Even has dragons! Not exactly ones I'd call friendly though), but really just on the basis that I think she's one of the mostly consistent fantasy writers.

I'd also generally second the Brandon Sanderson recommendation on general principle too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on December 07, 2008, 02:19:29 AM
The Temeraire series, by Naomi Novik, is basically what you'd get if you set Pern in the Napoleonic Wars. It's not exactly flawless, but it's fun.

Also, try Esther Friesner for comic fantasy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 07, 2008, 05:40:11 AM
Hobb is good as well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: WanderingMind on December 07, 2008, 04:09:49 PM
Once I get the time, I'll get back into Casino Royale and read from where I last left off.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 08, 2008, 07:53:22 PM
Finished book 2 of the Mistborn series. READ THIS SERIES.

Loved the same plot twist near the end Dhyer did. But more than that, the book- in spite of a slow first half- had and kept a constant sense of tension and dread. As bad as things got, you knew they'd just keep getting worse, and they did. Mmm, just awesome all around.

Edit: Read his website Dhyer, he's doing a chapter by chapter breakdown of the mistboard series. He's near the end of book 2. www.brandonsanderson.com
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 08, 2008, 08:14:25 PM
Finished book 2 of the Mistborn series. READ THIS SERIES.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 11, 2008, 11:28:10 PM
Finished Elantris. Also have an overwhelmingly positive opinion of it. The characters were good and the twists were generally solid. READ THIS BOOK (AND MISTBORN).

World building is done effectively in spite of the book being set in only one small fraction of it, the characters interact well and the religious strife makes sense.  Some spoilers.

Perfectly set for a sequal. The prince's story in Elantris was just captivating. I was actually physically uncomfortable reading some of the sections there. The horror of being trapped in a dead city with gods that had been turned into zombies was interspliced with the comforts of royal life for the princess. Also, the magic system? Was awesome. The cause of the world's god beings falling into ruin wasn't some evil scheme by the bad guys, but by a geologic fault ruining their magical fields. I saw this twist coming a mile away, but it was still a great read.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 13, 2008, 12:50:02 AM
I'm not quite sure how well an Elantris sequel would work. What made the first book really work was the mystery of Elantris itself, and I feel like that would be hard to maintain into later books.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 13, 2008, 01:08:55 AM
There's still plenty to do in the world itself. Sanderson seems doubtful there will be a sequel though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 13, 2008, 01:27:29 AM
There's plenty to do, but I just don't feel that it could necessarily to be told in a way that could be up to his usual standards. Mistborn worked because it was obviously heavily plotted out in terms of plot twists/magic setup, and Elantris feels like a very obvious one-off, albeit an awesome one. Of course, I also thought that the first Mistborn book also was a one-off and needed less resolution than Elantris did!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 22, 2008, 07:33:29 PM
Tuesdays with Morrie- Very well put together short novel.  The basic premise is simple (Mitch Albom finds out his old teacher is dying, goes to visit him,  understands life better) but works for what it is.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on December 25, 2008, 04:46:41 PM
Camp Kumoni
(Just released its final chapter)

Freaking awesome.

Yeah, another internet fiction serial, although better edited than most.  I didn't read it for a long time because I thought "part 60?  Good grief."  Also, from the name and the picture I figured it was probably some silly ancient burial ground story (and given that the first four characters are introduced as "Phantom", "Winter", "Summer", and "Phoenix" I had my doubts early on).

Turns out it's just a story about summer camp set in the present day with normal people, no sci-fi, no magic, and no sex scenes.  (Granted, touches on all four categories in LGBT, but...written in 2008 on a medium that can't be censored, so I consider this appropriate).  Such grounded stories can be hard to find on the Internet, though I've actually got my sources now.  What makes Camp Kumoni really stand out is that in addition to the tastefulness, I found it exceptionally well-written; I literally read it for three days straight until I was up-to-date, then patiently awaited the last five chapters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: ThePiggyman on December 25, 2008, 08:34:13 PM
So, for Christmas (FOR CHRISTMAS!), my mother bought me a Satanic Bible... by Anton LaVey.
I'm a metalhead, and I listen to black metal, but I am by no means a satanist. =P

I've actually started reading it, it's almost like a fantasy novel. I won't lie, I like it so far.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 26, 2008, 12:44:45 AM
Hero of the ages: Time to go rant in PM with Dhyer. Good book overall, I did figure out the major plot twist though thanks to an assist from Brandon Sanderson's site. Great series, donno how much I like the end, but eh.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on December 26, 2008, 11:32:47 PM
Once Upon a Time in the North (Philip Pullman)

Probably Lee Scoresby's best appearance.  Set before the Golden Compass timewise, though also contains book 3 spoilers in some of the footnotes, so not the piece to start with.  On the whole, I found Scoresby to be...average among HDK characters, so I also found this book kinda average (well, maybe a bit above as it was his best appearance).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on December 29, 2008, 03:04:29 AM
ugh ugh ugh.  Elric.  Why does you publishing history make no goddamn sense whatsoever?

Take this little snippet:

"In 2008 Del Rey begin publishing the Elric saga in collected editions with the stories in order they were written - although the text mirrors the 1993 omnibuses rather than the original editions."

What could possibly be the point of publishing them this way?  Those later texts were modified, among other reasons, so that they make sense chronologically.  Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 29, 2008, 10:10:26 AM
You lack the pointless elitism to understand such grand ideals.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on December 29, 2008, 01:02:42 PM
Oy, we're talking about the publisher, not the artist.  Just 'pointless' will do.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 29, 2008, 01:11:06 PM
I was intending that to be a jab at fans actually, because they will only want to consume it in the original format naturally.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on December 30, 2008, 12:28:44 AM
Original format makes sense to me.  Elric was quite influential when it first came out.  If I read it at all, I want to read it in the version people made such a fuss about, not some later version that's been spitshined and set chronologically and edited for internal consistency.

Alas, it was first published in an old fantasy magazine, so no dice.  Damn shame, really.  It'd be fascinating to compare it to its less influential (or at least less well-remembered) contemporaries.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 30, 2008, 10:57:37 AM
Actually I would really be interested in reading it layed out in the serial chapters as well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on January 01, 2009, 02:16:42 AM
The Unicorn's Gift - Sarah Lynn Morgan

Obviously I went into this thinking "whee, Unicorns!"  Despite the name, the first four parts (roughly the equivalent length of a novel) have no sign of magic or mysticism whatsoever.  These parts are very well done (at the level of SLM's short stories, most of which I've found excellently written, though too short and numerous to comment on in a "books" topic).  Parts 5-9 brings in the magic and...meh--mind control on the most important character makes it very hard to relate to her; in fact the result is very unsettling.  Parts 10-12...based on the blog comments, these were written, then the hard drive failed so they were rewritten from memory, and...I had a lot of problems with them.  Notably I found myself thinking "wait, I think I remember a scene just like that in Part 9" a few times.  Maybe I needed to reread the earlier chapters, but I was left fairly confused, and the ending had a lot of loose ends.

Don't get me wrong, I adore the author--she's in the running for my favourite internet author, but I kinda wish that she'd written 3 short-stories rather than try to rewrite Parts 10-11-12.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on January 03, 2009, 09:41:50 PM
The Tales of Beedle the Bard - JKRowling

In a short book, her desire to explain absolutely every term and character like "Muggle" and "Malfoy", is a bit obnoxious...though restricted to footnotes.  The stories themselves are pretty interesting--they largely fit the structure of fairy tales, but don't fit into obvious categorizations (well...no, JKR's Hairy Heart could be pretty easily argued as some variant on Blue Beard.  The hopping pot can probably be labelled with something--I'm wondering if the Juniper Tree fits, but it's been ages since I read that).

The real question in my mind is how much she's actually studied traditional fairy tales (these were apparently "the original runes as translated by hermione granger").  First of all, if you look at Grimm or Perrault, neither of them created most of their stories, rather they were stories passed down through oral tradition transcribed (and modified/censored) by Grimm/Perrault.  The footnotes for some of Beedle's stories made it sound like Beelde singlehandedly popularized some of these stories (or at least Dumbledore's notes on the Hopping Pot and Babbity Rabbity).  Second, somehow the writing style didn't seem fast paced enough to be an original-document fable; though...dunno, Perrault is just about the oldest published fairy tale book and he's not exactly snappy (the fast pace is more found in ones transcribed directly from oral tradition).  The third hint is the disparaging comments that get thrown at "muggle fairy tales" for having damsels in distress--in fact the original versions of fairy tale heroines often were not damsels in distress...rather crafty cutthroat women in fact.  I'd love to say that "this section was written by Dumbledore and maybe he's not that big of an expert on muggle children's literature," but checking the book again, no that particular foreward is actually signed "JKRowling," making it a pretty clear circlejerk "my fairy tales are better."

Overall, can't say I regret reading it (some interesting background on the universe; fairy tales fascinate me as a field of study) but I also can't objectively call it good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on February 02, 2009, 02:10:45 AM
Breaking Dawn - finished the Twilight series.  Nothing I can really say that wouldn't be a massive spoiler.  But suffice it to say great series overall, and deserves its hype.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 02, 2009, 10:01:14 PM
The man with the iron heart: "Today, we are all Frenchmen." -Harry Turtledove, after the evil Nazis manage to blow up the Effiel Tower.  The book is a very thinly veiled commentary on the Iraqi war. Problems with the book:

-The Sheehan knockoff is much, much less sympatheic and displays less humanity than Reinhard motherfucking Heydrich.
- He makes the Allies about as competent as they were in 1938. Special dishonor goes to the British here.
-*I* voted for Bush in 2004 and directly comparing him to Harry S. Truman like Turtledove does here makes me want to punch him in the face. Iraq is not Nazi Germany and the entire parallel falls apart there.

Some of it (The actual resistance movement, the Russian secret police man) were solid PoV's, but it was not a well done book. By and large the characters were lazy copy and paste jobs from earlier novels. The entire thing felt like a half assed attempt to make a commentary on the Iraq work. It didn't work.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 03, 2009, 01:04:08 AM
Mistborn character thoughts- massive spoilers ahead. Do not click unless you've read, mistborn is awesome.



Kelsier: Didn't have the depth of the other mains who were in all three books, but was the both the most fun to read and the most well done. He breaks from the usual Sanderson stereotypes nicely *and* is unusually effective for a main character in a fantasy novel. indentifying strongly with him as a character (Sense of humor+flaws. I don't have god complex. Usually.) also helped. It was pretty clear that escaping his shadow as a christ like figure and leader of the rebellion is something Vin and Eland never do. Probably my favorite of the series.
Marsh: In the house- in a Heartbeat. No really, that's him. Slow buildup but you know something bad is happening. Good PoV character in book 3, and got a fitting bit of revenge on Ruin near the end of the books.
Elend: One comment Dhyer said to be before I started reading books 2-3 was: "I didn't enjoy Elend/Vin as much as a couple because the relationship felt less believable." Mmm. I don't agree with that, but there was something not right with Elend from the start. he's put in the tough position of replacing Kelsier as the series's main character, a role he never fills. The rivalry with Zane was more about Vin than anything else. Eh. The turn into a real king is decent, I just can't put my finger on why I don't like him. He feels like he's a sanderson main, except that Raoden does a far better job of that.  Making him Mistborn in book 3 is probably what doesn't sit right, it completely changes the dynamic of him and Vin's relationship and the character in general.
Reen: Very cool with what Sanderson did with him. I have no objections- double bonus points for killing him offscreen and never reviving him.
Sazed: Very solid character. I have no real strong thoughts here, but I enjoyed his PoVs and his fighting style was unique.
Rashek/Lord Ruler: On one hand, the third book owned so much in large part because you get the full story behind Rashek and what he tried to do. "I was your god, even if you didn't know it.." His messages to Vin and co in his secret vaults were a neat addition to the story and helped add depth to the character. That said, too many problems on a personal level with the retcon job of what was effectively one of the Forsaken into a good guy. The treatment of the Skaa was just too brutal in the first book.  Yes it's understandable why he did what he did and Ruin's impact on his sanity, but god damn that was some rough conditions in the Final Empire.
Vin's Kandra: Up there with Kelsier for best PoV character in the series. If you've read the book you know why.
Vin: Mmm. She's meant to be turned into Lord Ruler vers2 at best for Ruin and at worst the tool used to free him. She got a little silly on the power scale near the end, but what the hell, she was pretty much the strongest natural mistborn in the series.  Just good overall, and I thought she was believable enough in the first book as a young lady. Second and third I have to chew on more, but I liked the way she went out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on February 04, 2009, 12:34:19 AM
Breaking Dawn - finished the Twilight series.  Nothing I can really say that wouldn't be a massive spoiler.  But suffice it to say great series overall, and deserves its hype.

Is this the same "Twilight" series that I'm constantly hearing references about "sparklepires" and "setting the women's movement back 50 years"? With the amount of disparaging comments I hear, I'd like to hear something from someone who I respect who genuinely liked the book (assuming this post isn't sarcastic?). I just feel very uninformed about the series, even though I enjoy the witty parodies made at its expense.... >.>;;
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on February 04, 2009, 04:43:15 AM
I have no idea what "sparklepire" means, but see page 8 of this topic.  Basically, if you like classic romances, give it a try.

I think a lot of backlash is due to it being popular, just like it's fun to hate on Harry Potter.

And if having a strong female lead is setting the women's movement back, what the hell does the women's movement want?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on February 04, 2009, 05:17:12 AM
"Sparklepire" refers to the fact that Twilight vampires don't burn up in sunlight, they just turn FABULOUS.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on February 04, 2009, 06:00:43 AM
Well there you go.  FABULOUS!!!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 04, 2009, 08:42:55 AM
It isn't fun to hate on Harry Potter.  It is fun to hate adults that consider it the most important piece of literature ever written.

Edit - Not to knock the impact it has for child readers of course, but I am kind of adverse to saying it is more important even in that bracket than something like Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 04, 2009, 01:51:24 PM
The Pirate King- Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. Salvatore's done much better books of late in his Drizzt series. I don't give a flying fuck about Luskan or the story here. The actual setup of it (Olbould's one or two scenes) were excellent but the rest feels like mostly filler. Lacked too many of the characters and stories that made his lack several books so compelling to read.

The stupid pirate hunter book in the last arc was filler as well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on February 04, 2009, 04:49:27 PM
It isn't fun to hate on Harry Potter.  It is fun to hate adults that consider it the most important piece of literature ever written.

Edit - Not to knock the impact it has for child readers of course, but I am kind of adverse to saying it is more important even in that bracket than something like Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing.

Judy Blume >>> Rowling? I think I'm down with that sentiment, yes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on February 04, 2009, 05:39:31 PM
It isn't fun to hate on Harry Potter.  It is fun to hate adults that consider it the most important piece of literature ever written.

Edit - Not to knock the impact it has for child readers of course, but I am kind of adverse to saying it is more important even in that bracket than something like Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing.

Judy Blume >>> Rowling? I think I'm down with that sentiment, yes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 06, 2009, 02:33:32 AM
Oh yeah, I've been reading again.

spoilers be in this post

Path of Daggers - Well, there's a reason a lot of people dropped the series around here. Crown of Swords is one of the weaker books in the series, and this is weaker still, and not only do they go downhill, but they generally refuse to resolve things (well okay Sammael dies in random fashion). The biggest plot thread of CoS (the Bowl of the Winds) is unnecessarily pushed into tPoD, and to be fair, that arc is the best part of the book. The worst? That would be Rand's battle against the Seanchan. In fact, that is indisputably, to my mind, the worst-written arc in the series. First of all, I think fantasy battles generally suck. But even beyond my bias... there's just a total lack of interesting characters there, besides Rand, it's confusingly written, and is a wholly worthless story arc in general. Egwene's arc isn't exactly stellar itself - the material is interesting, yet for some reason it doesn't really grip me, and usually the Salidar stuff does. Perrin's arc isn't impressive either. Just not a strong book, although of course, there's worse out there. The best chapter, oddly, is probably that little side chapter that deals with the unmasking of the Tower Black Ajah, and the capture of Toveine and company by Logain's faction. It's interesting, Jordan does an excellent job with the minor Aes Sedai PoVs there, and shit happens.


Winter's Heart - This, on the other hand? Rules. I'm about 500 pages in, and really, everything is engrossing. The book picks up with the Seaine/Toveine PoVs again which I just mentioned, which is a strong start, and then quickly brings us along to strong arcs for everyone else. Mat's Ebou Dar stuff is good, Elayne's are wonderful, Rand/Min stuff continues to develop strongly. Perrin/Faile chapters are limited which is probably good, since that's a weaker arc, but by tightening it up, it does improve immensely. I'm also surprised by how well-written the minor PoVs are (well, refrain from the previous, but...), particularly Egeanin's little chapter. Needs more Egwene, is my only complaint.

Not really in the mood for longer rants.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 06, 2009, 11:47:48 AM
Wow, I honestly expected you to say the best part of Path of Daggers was the fact that it didn't have Mat in it at all.  Then they bring Mat back and you even call that good.   Interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on February 06, 2009, 12:58:27 PM
Grefter told me to come here and hype some books. I don't remember what though. I can read?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 06, 2009, 01:21:28 PM
(http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/RESOURCE/MEDIA/IMAGES/bookcovers/Original/BookCovers13/978/0/1/4/1/9780141380599.jpg)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 07, 2009, 02:08:35 AM
PoD not having Mat would be a point in its favour as far as my own personal tastes go, except the chapters of extra screentime that other characters get are largely not used well.

WH on the other hand Jordan is just on the ball. Sometimes Mat does interesting stuff and gets involved in interesting storylines, he himself I just find unsympathetic (though not badly written; I have said it before, one of the great strengths of the series is that ALL the main characters are at least worth reading).

In other words, while Rand >>> Mat, well-written Mat chapters >>>> Rand's Seanchan battle chapters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 07, 2009, 05:22:25 AM
Fair enough.  Absence of a character doesn't really mean the rest of the writing in the book is bad though (regardless of the quality of book 8, the total lack of Matt is the kind of thing I think embodies what is wrong with it.  Nothing happens.  So little happens one of the three mains isn't even in the damned thing).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 07, 2009, 05:46:44 AM
Eh, that alone isn't the problem. Book 5 completely lacked Perrin and it was great. Book 9 has nearly no Egwene (who is certainly also a main) and again, awesome.

If Book 8 was written the way Book 9 was it would be great even without Mat (and I'd say that if Mat were my favourite character); the problem with the book is not what is not there, but what is there. Little happens AND there are some writing issues.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 07, 2009, 07:31:44 AM
I probably should clear that up a bit I guess. The fact that Book 8 has no Mat when it really should have (he just was in a town invaded by Seancean! Holy Cliffhanger Batman!) is the problem.  The book that skips Perrin are him having a fairly stable home life, which is part of what makes the Faile relationship credible (they have been together long enough that they aren't just lusting after each other and whatnot).  It is like if they just kind of skipped a book when Two Rivers is flooded with Trollocs (Oh btw nothing much happened here, they didn't die but also didn't have any losses for a while).  When Mat pops back up it is almost as if it is right after the event took place while there is a whole story worth of things that have happened.  He got out of an incredibly dangerous situation and it is just entirely glossed over.  Perrin had some tea and crumpets and it was glossed over.

And then while that was happening, everyone else sat on their hands and we got to read about some intense hand sitting.

Edit - And yeah I agree with you, book 9 is just head and shoulders above book 8.  It really isn't a big deal who is or isn't in it.  I think I am sucking at saying that I take issue with book 8 because nothing happened in it and yet things were actually happening in that time frame or worse, SHOULD have been being written about.  My favourite soft target here of Mazrim Taim is eh probably not really ripe to have happen, but if Book 8 had handled other scenarios better there would have been more time to resolve Captain Generic Dull Evil Traitor Man, whiiiiich would lead to more Logain plot earlier and with better pacing which I wanted so much for so very very long because those plot threads were layed out so freaking early.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 08, 2009, 08:04:23 AM
The Toveine chapter does a surprising amount to help ripen the Taim plot (although thinking on it the book 9 one did more than book 8. Expected), though at this point I agree with you in that it should have advanced more by now. I think it may have been delayed partly because Jordan was screwing with the Taimandred theorists, which amuses me but isn't really a good excuse. <_<

Generally agree with the rest of the points made in your post, there, yeah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on February 18, 2009, 08:31:13 AM
Boy's School (Sarah Lynn Morgan)

As you might expect, this is a story about lesbians.  Err...okay, maybe this fact is more obvious if you see the title in its original font (it's written in pink and frilly letters).  Or if you've read anything by the author before (I've had people IRL whom I barely know, on mentioning my interest in internet fiction, start telling me about the lesbians who travel through time using taxis--not exactly one of the author's best works, just something you can summarize in seven words).

Aaaaaaaaaanyway, SLM is an excellent author; I've noticed this before--in fact she may well be my overall favourite internet author.  I've also noticed that, while I enjoy fantasy/sci-fi, if an author is above a certain skill level then I prefer for them to avoid such settings.  Fantasy/sci-fi have this tendency to become an easy-solution crutch.  (Also, for some reason sci-fi/fantasy plots seem to require a certain minimum number of fight scenes, whether or not these scenes enhance the plot).

So...here we have SLM writing a story with a real-world setting, which is pretty much a home run with me (as it has been in the past when she wrote short-stories set in the real world).  To put things into perspective, on another forum I commented that this book may well end up in my top 5 most-liked books of all time. 

Though I do wonder how much of this is bias on my part (I happen to adore the author) and how much holds up objectively.  On character development...it's unusual--the entire plot takes place over a two-week period and most of the character development happens through backstory (kinda FF7-style I guess), but it's certainly there.  The main character is singleminded to a fault.  I'd complain that this was just an excuse to keep the plot going, except it seems to go both ways (mid-book the character falls violently ill over concerns of hurting a friend, stalling the plot).  I'd complain that an introverted main character leads to not enough dialog...except the headmaster interrogation and the phone call were both downright long and intense.  I suppose these complaints are more complaints that there are some longish descriptive passages--i.e., "damnit Tolkien, shut up about Middle Earth already"-syndrome.  Except I never found the story to be slow moving...or anything other than engrossing, perhaps because I have more interest in dress-shopping than I do in orcs, or maybe the pacing is just done better.

So...I'm having trouble with objectively criticizing this book, and I'm certainly not about to fault it on a subjective scale given how addicting I found it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on February 20, 2009, 09:37:08 PM
Hot, Flat, and Crowded:

Do me and the rest of humanity a favor and read this.

Not enough of a recommendation?

It's effectively an approach to the whole carbon dioxide issue from an economic perspective, and frankly it's a better read than 95% or so of novels out there. Thomas Friedman's got talent for writing. It's quite blunt, it's quite efficient at getting across the point of what can be done and what solutions are already at hand-

-and even presuming you're a global warming skeptic, let's just avoid Beijing fog worldwide, alright?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 21, 2009, 03:02:19 PM
You can find Freidman's columns online, Tai. Google him.

Been rereading the Dark Tower series. I borrowed (and forgot to give back) Shale's copy of the drawing of three at the minimeet, so I've had it by my nightstand and read parts of it whenever I get bored. I managed to find the rest of the books in the series around the house besides that one so reread time.Skipped DT1. I'll read that after I finish the wastelands.

Dark tower series spoilers:

So much wasted potential here.  One thing Stephen King can't do at all is write endings, yet Dark Tower's one problem wasn't the ending. The very, very last page of the series- Roland at the top of the tower- is something I can accept. Not because it's brilliant writing, but because it feels like an ending he had in mind. The entire series is a prolouge for the Roland poem the book's based on, the last time Roland does something wrong. Okay, whatever. What is also forgiveable is just how badly the ball's dropped at places in the book. Ending such a brilliant series can't be easy at all, and writing the flavor and making the world work like it did in the first three books isn't an easy task at all. There was a several year gap between Wizard and Glass and the Wastelands, and WnG is largely King buying time for himself. Much as I love Wizard and Glass, it shows the problems that started to crop up in the series. King outright says in the ending of the drawing of the three that 4 is a flashback book. The main content of the book could have been handled in one long short story. The problem isn't the novel, it's that King got about halfway through the series (Escaping Oz) and had -no- fucking idea where to go from there. The accident compounded problems. Book 5 had problems, but it was a damn enjoyable read. It just didn't move enough. Book 6 is honestly 100% hazy, I'm going to have to reread it.

Book 7.. the problem isn't the shitty ending or Harry motherfucking Potter or the Crimson King or Flagg's end, it's that he shows he can *still* write and craft the Dark Tower world so well. The shootout at the Dixie Pig's great, I love the section of the book after Jake's death to just before the tower, and the best part? It *moves*. It's almost like the first books! Except that King turns it into a personal therapy session. Mordred's section is absolute and complete fucking trash in every single regard, and King should be punched in the face for it. Writing himself in the books to the degree he does is utterly inexusable and is lazy writing of the worst sort. The early books have a nudge or two in that direction (Eddie refers to the Shining in Drawing of the Three), which is fine. Everything in book 5 and especially 6/7 don't world build or advance the characters, it's King writing himself into his favorite works and doing so in a way to distract you from the end of the series. Patrick sucked and should'nt have been in the book. Speaking as someone who *read* insomnia, the worst titled novel ever, you miss nothing by cutting him and that entire novel out. Not everything new in the books is bad... actually it pretty much all is, besides Black 13 and Father Callahan. Never mind.

Or short version: King shows he can still write and worldbuild and does it extremely well at parts. Then you get the Crimson King throwing sneeches at Roland while Patrick <i>Erases his fucking body</i>. Stupid.

Oh yeah, every single death in the book besides Father Callahan's was pointless. I could have bought everyone from Roland to Oy dying from oh say book 3 onward, but there is less than no excuse for how he killed off Eddie and Jake.  He killed them off just to get them out of the main story. Incredibly lazy writing compounded by the sin of 'hay guys there's this other world so the deaths really did mean nothing! ^_^_^_^_^_^. Fuck. off.

Edit: Oh god I forgot that he was already strongly referencing a Susanah as preggers storyline even in book 3. Lay off the crack, king.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 25, 2009, 12:31:14 AM
Reading: Wizard and Glass. Done with the Wastelands. Excellent book all around, and damned inspired setting wise. Everything in Roland's world stands out so strongly- the oracle circle and Jake's trip through the house, Lud, the wasteland, the endless forests. All of it is wonderfully written and paints a picture of the world. The book moves at a breakneck pace, both setting and content wise.

Wizard and Glass's first 100 pages are excellent, but the story's quickly sidetracked by Roland and Susan's story. It's a damned good read, but it should have been it's own mini novel and not part of the dark tower series.  80% of the book is in that flashback, and while the rest of the 20%'s good it is still incredibly frustrating.

Also reading Scotland: A concise history by Fitroy Maclean. I'm about a third of the way through it. It is exactly what it sounds like, a history of Scotland from it's Roman days all the way to the scottish parlament's meeting in 1999. Things I've learned:

1. Never fuck with the Scottish.
2.This goes triple for the highlanders, who exist to only kick everyone else's ass.
3. God really does hate the French. (As if Charles de Gaulle wasn't proof of that.) Seriously, there was something called a 'Holy League against France' and it was headed by the pope? Damn.

Lots of neat history. I'm seeing a lot of names of places that I want to visit in Scotland (St Andrews, Stirling, Antonine wall) pop up, which is cool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on February 27, 2009, 04:30:22 PM
Eleanor Roosevelt, by J. William T. Youngs. 

Very controversial.  I did not realize how... militant Eleanor Roosevelt was.  I mean... well, here's the response it elicited from me, in a short response paper I had to write:

Eleanor Roosevelt's social awakening toward the plight of the blacks in 1930 was precipitated through her travails about the country and her interactions with leaders of the black community, like then-head of the NAACP, Walter White.  This awakening affected her views of the 50's and 60's civil rights movement.  She remarked, "Dr. King's philosophy has a lot of potential for equalizing the social station of the blacks and the whites.  However, I believe that these are dangerous times, and the Black Panther movement provides a much more relevant philosophy to the climate of today's race relations" (Youngs 299).  It is no trivial matter that she donated much of her estate to the Black Panther's Self Defense Initiative, which sought to protect African Americans through armament.  Well ahead of her time, foreseeing a state of black-on-black crime, she warned, "Do not turn your weapons on your brothers. Do not use your weapon wantonly. The black community must show solidarity. Use your gun only against those who seek to harm and oppress" (Roosevelt "This is My Story" 556). These views, controversial for an upperclass white woman, caused many critics to dub her "Eleanor Racewar" (557), the moniker she is known by to this day.


See?  Eleanor Roosevelt was craaaaaaaaaaaaazy.  But in a good way.

EDIT:  Cleaned up spelling.  Eleanor has an e.  I mean, another one.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on February 27, 2009, 04:40:53 PM
Yep, there's a reason she was my childhood idol/hero.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 28, 2009, 04:26:00 PM
*whips LD* Post Elantris thoughts.

Done with Wizard and Glass. Good novel? Yes. Plenty of interesting material here, but. King spends like 1% of the Novel (Very beginning and end) in Roland's world with the modern crew. The story iin Mejis is interesting and well written, it just loses the tight focus that the first three novels have. King himself says that about two thirds of the way through the novel he loses focus and isn't sure about how good it is.

That's the entire problem. He has no fucking idea where to go. Wizard and Glass is wonderful, but it's borrowing flavor from other times (Roland as a kid) or settings (The Stand).  There is barely anything about Roland's ka-tet in the novel, and it's a goddamned shame. If he hadn't gotten into the accident, I don't think we're past book 6 at this point. It's clear that he got pushed into the last three novels, and the series suffered tremendously from this.


Drawing of three>Wastelands>Gunslinger (May change pending a reading of an edited version, the orginial has a lot of errors in the continuty)>Wizard and Glass so far.

Not sure what the worst book in the series is. 7, for all of it's flaws, has a shitload of movement and action. Parts of the book are just damned good and would fit right in with the first three novels. The rest is wretched beyond belief. Book 6 may be the worst. God damn did he go way too heavy on the gimmick words and bouncing around and todash, etc. 5 is decent, just introduces a couple of utterly terrible plot threads and doesn't move enough.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on March 01, 2009, 10:45:57 PM
Emma

No, not the Jane Austen novel (although I really should get around to reading that too), the bad internet fiction novel.  When I say bad, I mean all the usual pitfalls of bad internet fiction--total Mary Sue main character, unnecessary sex scenes, very blatant "good characters" and "evil characters", and magical intervention.

And yet I read it all in one 6-hour sitting.  While I can certainly enjoy a bubble-gum plot, enough flaws will turn me off.  My only real explanation is that my dislike of the macro level storytelling must have been made up for in the micro-level language skill.  As far as mastery of the English language goes, there were certainly some good lines--and from what I could tell the French was solid too (actually, I was mostly impressed that she used French dialogue for the scenes in France).

Can't honestly give it a recommendation, though.  I mean, if you were stuck on a train and somehow happened to have a copy of Emma printed out and nothing else of interest to read, then by all means it's a fine timesink.  Somehow I doubt the RPGDL is in dire need of timesinks, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 04, 2009, 12:17:45 AM
Wizard's first rule, Terry Goodkind-


Trainwreck value, what can I say? About a third of the way through the book. Trying to give it a fair shot, not that it matters based on what I've read and heard.

The good:

-Goodkind clearly knows his stuff about nature and does a good job painting very vivid landscapes.
-Zedd is cool.
-Some of the fantasy elements are good.
-He went in a different direction than the usual fantasy fluff with the monsters so far- the blood flies were a nice touch he added to the gar.
-He's a decent writer. No matter what you can say about his content,  I can't find anything technically wrong with his writing style. He's not a master of worldbuilding like Jordan and Sanderson crushes him in general, but this isn't a flaw. (I'm looking at you, Mercedes Lackey.)

The bad:

-He's strawmanned communism, peace activists, gun control, and condoned the use of torture and murder with the opening chapters. It's not subtle, either.  "Let's ban fire, it's the REAL enemy!!!11" The name of the evil army: The people's peace army. They have reeducation camps as well!
-I don't mind a straight up bad guy, but these guys have no redeeming traits to speak of. His brother Michael literally took every stance Richard did and flipped it. "Oh, you don't need to search for your father's killer, let the army handle it." "Oh, blah blah blah money/greed/evil/rape." This goes for every one of the villians I've seen so far. There is no personality besides evil just for the sake of evil. There's nothing interesting there.
-Richard's more a force of will than a personality. This is not a good thing in a main character. He came out of the box with pretty much no doubts and just enforces his will on everyone else. It's like if Rand went from his EotW character to his Fires of Heaven character in five pages. His 'doubts' feel completely made up, because he and you both know what he'll do and how he does it. By definition he tells and acts the truth as a seeker, so he can't ever be wrong. 
-Kalhan and Richard fall in love in a matter of days. It actually really mostly happens over one or two chapters. There's no buildup, they just *are*. This is really not a good thing for a series this long. Feels like Goodkind's rushing through the character development to get his hardened killers ready and willing to do whatever it takes. This of course ties into the political horseshit, see above.
-Goodkind does love his violence. We'll see how bad it gets.
-The characters preach about the good and bad in anyone, then pretty much work in the lowest common denominator. We know Rahl's a bad guy thanks to you lovingly describing his brutal methods in detail.
-Plot's predicable. This isn't a flaw in his storytelling, it's a flaw in his ideology (see above).  Darken Rahl's just not all that scary, becuase he's already godmodding some with Richard. It goes back to trying to have a force of will instead of a main character. It doesn't work, we all know Richard's never going to be seriously threatened.
-The setting is very generic.

It's off to a pretty scrubby start so far. We'll see what the rest of the book has to offer.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 04, 2009, 12:38:13 AM
It's off to a pretty scrubby start so far. We'll see what the rest of the book has to offer.

The answer is "pretty much what you just pointed out, plus S&M porn."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 04, 2009, 12:59:00 AM
Someone either beat Goodkind too much as a kid, or not enough. I'm leaning towards 'not enough' at this point.

I'm still going to try and slog through at least the first couple books and see what happens. I feel pretty justified in wanting to punch SoT>WoT hypers. Which reminds me to kick Excal in the face saying that WFS was even close to as good as EotW.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on March 04, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Someone either beat Goodkind too much as a kid, or not enough. I'm leaning towards 'not enough' at this point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 04, 2009, 07:58:27 AM
It is a fantasy tribute to Ayn Rand.  It has to have BDSM in it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 05, 2009, 12:47:32 AM
I'm still going to try and slog through at least the first couple books and see what happens.

Why bother?  Entertainment should entertain.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 05, 2009, 01:28:06 AM
It is entertaining, but not in the way Goodkind wants it to be.

UPDATE: When we last left our valiant heroes, they were wandering south to reach the.. who the fuck cares about the plot? Wise old man gets hurt, large warrior gets hurt, so Kahlan and Richard wander off. We also get our first Darken Rahl PoV.

WARNING: GRAPHIC/NWS

Lowlights: Rahl's point of views. Okay, so he gets off on torture and his top aid is a well known child molestor. We then have Rahl breaking down the mind of a child so he can slaughter him, <i>eat his organs including his testicles</i>, so he can send his soul to hell for some unknown purpose. Of course we find out that Rahl is a strict Vegetarian during this! Except when he eats children's flesh. The level of violence is sickening.

On the Objectivist front, Richard meets a savage people, teaches them the value of building roofs and how it makes them happy, only for the bad village elders to say no!!!! This is a thinly disgusted rant about neutral parties, etc. It is terrible. Of course Richard is turned down by these ignorant fools, and then has to use his might and the Sword of Truth to bring them enlightenment.


Oyi. To his credit, Goodkind at least waited half a book before starting in with the gory stuff. It uh is something?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 05, 2009, 01:46:42 AM
All I have to say in my defense is that I was 19 and in the middle of my fucked in the head stage.  As for reading the second book?  Errr, better you than me?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 05, 2009, 10:34:49 AM
If you can stick with it through to book 4 or 5 you get his attacks on Communism which is a pretty amazing strawman, where I stopped because I was actually finished highschool then and needed a bit more than gore and stupid plot twists to keep me going.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 05, 2009, 12:11:06 PM
He's already strawmanned communism pretty horribly. The people's peace palace! The people's peace army! Goodkind had to have been molested by the spirit of Josef Stalin.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 05, 2009, 12:39:51 PM
Much much worse.  In the people in the empire (a new one!) are shocked that he would ever help someone because to do so would be taking that persons work from them!

Edit - Not to mention he really ups that delicious hypocrisy ante later on the 1 dimensional evil villains get worse and worse all the while making Rahl less and less of a bad guy (as Richard starts to do more and more stupid pointless evil bullshit along with Khalan!)

Good times.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 05, 2009, 02:33:52 PM
Oh yeah, Naked Empire. Good times. Let's not forget this is the same book with the magical statue that converts anyone who sees it to capitalism.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on March 05, 2009, 03:25:50 PM
*Adie is cool~
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 05, 2009, 03:34:58 PM
This mud people arc has bonus cannibalism for the MAIN CHARACTER plus Kahlan being extra useless (More lying, she didn't tell him he was eating people). PLUS RICHARD TAMES HER HORMONES WITH THE POWER OF HIS REASON AND MIND SO AWESEOM-

I'd like to pause this rant about how shit the Sword of Truth is to encourage people to read a new, good series. READ MISTBORN, SLACKERS. Ahem.

--

HE OUTSMARTED THE SAVAGES WITH AN APPLE RICHARD IS SO AWESOME AND UBER
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 05, 2009, 03:45:24 PM
Oh, speaking of things better than Sword of Truth, I read one of the random freebies I got at Comic-Con, "Already Dead" by Charlie Huston. It's a noir novel with vampires versus zombies. You really can't go wrong with that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 06, 2009, 10:20:11 PM
Okay! So I finally finished Crusader (ARGH) and have enough time to post my thoughts about Elantris.

I am horrible about concealing spoilers or writing things so that I can simply make the spoilery parts blacked out, so consider yourself warned that this post is spoilerific in parts. I also reference Burn Notice spoilers at some point. >_>

First things first: I liked it! It was definitely a first novel, but it was very well written. I like character-driven narrative. It reminded me rather a lot of Andrew's writing now that I think of it, but that's more a compliment to Andrew than a bias influencing my read of Sanderson. In any case, though I do appreciate a good plot-driven narrative (see: many of Neil Gaiman's books, believe it or not), my favorite thing is a memorable character. I can forgive just about anything else in a book if the characters are awesome.

The little incidences of Old English were pretty cool. It was a pretty subtle nod (I mean, who knows Old English other than medievalists?), but the word choices were pretty solid. Hroden, for example, means something along the lines of "ornamented, adorned." Seon is the infinitive of a verb meaning (duh) "to see" but also "to experience, enjoy" and "to witness." Hrathen is somewhat spoilery, but my favorite (if a little interpretive): hræþe means "quickly," hra itself means "corpse," hreð means "glory, triumph"... [/geek]

ANYWAY.

The three(ish) points of view that carried the majority of the novel were pretty well organized. Novels with shifting perspective are hard to carry and sometimes lead to confusion on the part of the reader (see: Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire), but there was enough-but-not-too-much recap to keep the threads rolling nicely. They also blended really well, and the point at which they came together was pretty cool.

It was slow in parts -- the beginning especially, but also the merger of the Raoden/Sarene threads -- and too fast in others -- primarily the ending, as climax and falling action took all of, what, 4 chapters? The slowness I attribute mainly to the SF/F need to spend time exploring/explaining a little bit about the world. I imagine he's worked on refining this a bit; there are other ways to do it instead of having the outsider come in and get a crash course on customs in exposition. Once he got enough of that out of the way, Sanderson moved on and returned to the action.

I was satisfied with Hrathen's turn. I just saw Burn Notice's season finale, and a similar thing happened: a guy who was evil for the entire season turned around in a single episode and it was really convincing. It was more of a perspective shift than a change in character, and that was really cool. We got to see Hrathen as more of the paladin-who-went-too-far guy rather than the religious zealot as he was originally portrayed.

Other cool things:
§ the sect of the priests that were half-demon and all cool. The way it was hinted at was pretty subtle but was was definitely there, though that Dilaf was one seemed very sudden (though I guess it made sense).
§ the political intrigue a la the group of nobles conspiring to take out the king
§ the development of post-Reod Elantris and the people living in it
§ that the magic system was fairly unique and pretty well-developed; that it proved central to the plot without taking it over was also quite cool

The best thing? IT ENDED. I don't mean in the sense that I hated the book and couldn't wait for it to be over. I mean that it was a fantasy novel that was self-contained and didn't see the need to lead into another book. While I'd love to read more about the happenings in Elantris/Arelon/Teod and in the lives of Sarene and Raoden, I don't need to and there didn't seem to be any reason to. The ending was sappy ("the hero gets the girl, the girl is happy, and the world is saved" cheese), but it at least wrapped up the plot threads that were set out at the beginning.

I really liked the characters and how they changed within themselves or were changed by further understanding of their contexts. That it did both was very cool. Raoden was fairly static but getting to know him, his motivations and how he reacted to situations was plenty interesting. Hrathen was similar, interestingly. Sarene was ... well, she was somewhat stereotypical ("strong female lead who isn't like the other girls and has a good head on her shoulders, and oh she can't sew or anything") but I didn't mind because it fit the needs of the story pretty well.


Overall a pretty solid freshman novel. I've just started Mistborn and I'm looking forward to reading it. I do admit this is slightly influenced by my disappointment with Sara Douglass's series, but whatever. <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 17, 2009, 12:22:19 AM
Watchmen:  Read so I can allow myself to go see the movie.  Great book.  Not brilliant, but it's definitely a book to point to when arguing about the increasing literary merit in Graphic Novels/Comic Books.  Well done psychological profiles of nutbars, good Alternate-Future elements, good exploration of relative morality. Predestination and time theme handled a little poorly, and some aspects were handled ham-handedly (Pirate comic book parallels, etc.).  I'm a little worried as to how well it translates as a movie--if the movie is faithful to the book to the degree that I hear it is, it probably won't be a very good movie.  Should still be entertaining, but I can't help but think that it won't work when viewed by people who had not read the novel. 

Well, I guess we'll find out when I see it this week.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on March 17, 2009, 01:19:10 PM
Elantris- Started. Just finished Chapter 11. Like all three of the mains so far. I identify with Serene. Roaden's showing his leadership qualities and Hrathren's moral dilemmas are interesting. Also zombie likes in a fantasy setting. I love it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on March 20, 2009, 10:10:54 PM
*smacks everybody upset down* Read Elantris people. Finished.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on March 22, 2009, 04:03:57 PM
Picasso's Guernica - Anthony Blunt.

Guernica: Pablo Picasso - Juan Larrea.

As of now, these are great resources to my thesis. I would totally go in depth about the current chapters I'm on, but it'd be way too ranty. Let's just say I like both because they enlighten me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Pyro on March 22, 2009, 04:36:35 PM
Faith of the Fallen had the magic statue, Shale.

Oh and by the way? Goodkind's attempt to make the plot coherent gets less and less serious as the series goes on. Bonus points if you find the scene in the third book where someone instantly recognizes another character THEY NEVER MET (or even heard of) BEFORE.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 22, 2009, 10:15:06 PM
Hahaha yeah I remember that one.  The third book is really pretty much where the roller coaster of amazing stupid begins THE PROPHECY DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO DIE IT MEANS I HAVE TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU DURING YOUR PERIOD.  Yesssssss.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 23, 2009, 03:27:14 PM
I started Mistborn right after I finished Elantris, and it had been slow going. Reading nowadays usually is, given classes. Anyway, I'd gotten until just about the last 100 pages or so before this Detroit trip picked up. Knowing I had ~8 hours on planes/at airports ahead of me, I grabbed book #2 as well, figuring I'd finish the first and get started on the second and have enough to read on the trip back.

1) I forgot to bring Mistborn.
2) The first TWO PAGES of Well of Ascension spoil the hell out of the last 100 pages of Mistborn
3) I read too goddamn fast, even when I spend time I thought I'd be reading talking to other people.

3 refers to the fact that I am down to the last 30 pages of Well of Ascension (763 pages) and now need to find myself a bookstore before I drive back to the airport and face ANOTHER 8ish hours of airport + planes. :(

At least the books are awesome. I'm looking forward to what super tells me Sanderson himself calls the "Sanderson avalanche" that makes up the end of book 1, and to seeing just how it moves along. I'm a little sad it's only a trilogy, but I actually trust Sanderson -- so far -- to wrap things up when they're wrapped up rather than leaving things hanging or dragging them out for 10+ books when they don't need it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 24, 2009, 05:22:06 PM
So I'm done with all the books now. Who knew flying from Detroit to San Francisco could be so productive?

Small text for spoilers.

Though I very much enjoyed the characters and the action, I found the end to be somewhat... dissatisfying. I'm not sure exactly what it is that makes me feel that way. Maybe it's the fact that there was an extreme deus ex machina -- I mean, they TURN INTO GODS, how much more DEM can you get? Maybe it was, again, the religious pastoral thing, though this one bothered me less on the creepy side and more on the eyerolling "C'mon, seriously?" side. My cynicism regarding religion interferes with my ability to enjoy much religious reference in literature, and usually it's because the author is really heavy-handed about it. It wasn't until the latter half of Hero of Ages that it actually started to register.

Looking back, there are a lot of clever little touches Sanderson put into the previous action and discourse which references the conclusionary deductions. I am a little slow to pick up on bread-crumbing, but since I have to go back and read the last 150 (oops, more than I thought! Turns out I was just short of the Shan/Vin episode)  I'm noticing these little things about Reen's voice, about Vin's perception of what happens when she pierces copperclouds, etc. It's nice to see that he bothered to plan these things out and write the books coherently. It's an unfortunate problem much epic fantasy has: the plot is contiguous, but it's obvious the books were written out of demand for more books rather than the story's demand for more time and space. Sanderson doesn't seem to have that problem, and I'm very glad he knows when to let a story die its natural death. Even if not everyone in the book who dies stays dead, that kind of seems to be half the point. I feel like Spook was maybe a little too forced as a major -- and by the end, I mean MAJOR -- character, but I can forgive it because the rest seemed natural.

Overall, I really did enjoy reading the series. I wish I could say this led to me finding a new author, but unfortunately he's up-and-coming and he's probably quite involved with his current obligation. S'okay! I won't say he's my favorite author, but he did create what will probably be one of my favorite characters and a really enjoyable world for her to play in.

Meanwhile I grabbed a series of 4 young adult books about dragons I don't recall ever reading from the guy I went to see get married this past weekend. Maybe it'll give me a week or two to find the next thing I'll be reading. >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Strago on March 24, 2009, 07:33:47 PM
Just finished a novel called The Story of Edgar Sawtelle by a guy with a long Polish last name that I can't quite summon up without the book in front of me. And that I'm apparently too lazy to Google, I guess. The story is a re-telling of Hamlet, essentially, set on a farm in Wisconsin in the 1950s. Edgar, the Hamlet analogue, is a young boy who's been mute since birth. Now the point of the book is not to be a clean 1-to-1 transfer of the medieval Danish story to the American heartland, so his muteness functions as more than a clever way of re-casting Hamlet's character traits, but Edgar's inability to communicate normally is still a very interesting lens through which to view Hamlet's archetype. What is essentially an outside force compelling the character to constantly retreat into his head creates a very different character from the detached thirty-something eternal student for whom my sympathy actually vaguely peters away every time I read the play.

I found Gar, Trudy, and Claude all to be really rich characters. It's a fun experience to have characters that are so familiar also contain new multitudes and be living in a world much more like ours. Trudy and Claude's eventual romance makes much more sense than Gertrude and Claudius's ever did*, in part because the story here starts long before Hamlet actually does. Also because the author seems to have a keen understanding of grief, though, and the ways in which it changes us and forces us to make choices that change ourselves. Dr. Papineau (Polonius) and his son Glen (Laertes) aren't that interesting, and I would've liked to have more of them. Glen in particular is important at the very end in a way that his relative non-existence at the beginning makes somewhat jarring. So is Laertes, you could fairly argue. Maybe it's just my fondness for the character (a result of playing him a few years ago) that makes me wish Glen had been a bit more fully conceived. Or that he had a relationship with an Ophelia to drive him to his actions at the end of the novel.

The Ophelia character (well, only vaguely: this parallel is clear in terms of the action of the plot, but obviously not in the exact quality of of her relationships) is actually the family dog, named Almondine. Oh, that's right! The other major component of the book is the fact that the Sawtelles train and breed a fictional kind of dog, simply called "Sawtelle Dogs." There's a lot of discourse on the subject of breeding and training, specifically regarding Gar's mission of breeding a strain of dog with a more developed personal consciousness and capacity for decision-making. So as if the Hamlet stuff hadn't been enough, the book really hooked me as a dog-lover (who recently had one die back home, no less) with its obvious and poeticized affection for them. A scene between Edgar and Almondine near the end of the book nearly had me weeping.

More than that, though, the book manages to have a very light and fascinating touch with the fantastical elements of the story. The appearance of Gar's ghost is haunting (har har) and fun to read, and there's a thin but crucial tendril of fantasy and prophecy and sentient weather and semi-magic poison that snakes through the book in an energizing and satisfying way.

So, yes. A good read.

*Which reminds me: anyone who thinks this might be up their alley is also encouraged to check out Gertrude and Claudius, by John Updike. It's pretty much what you might guess, and I remember enjoying it a whole hell of a lot. Hmm, maybe I'll re-read that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 24, 2009, 10:46:53 PM
12 Kingdoms: The Vast Spread of the Seas.

12 Kingdoms is an exploration of the implications of a world where the Mandate of Heaven exists, where God essentially has created a governing system headed by immortal kings who are kept honest because they will sicken and die if they govern badly.  Hint: they do anyway.

Anyway, without going too much into the plot, a bright, benevolent regional lord devises a plan by which to take power and circumvent Heaven's checks and balances, which he plans to do because the king is unwilling or unable to govern well.

This corresponds to the 4th and final story arc of the anime.  Book's good, but there's nothing in it that's not covered just as well by the anime, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 25, 2009, 01:42:22 AM
Response to LD, Mistborn spoilers in B.

A: Sanderson has a new book due out this June and a series of children's novels. You can read Warbreaker on his website, but it's the unpublished version so it's going to have errors. Go read his annotations on his website (Dhyer you scrub, read those as well. www.brandonsanderson.com), they're a fun read and a look into his mind which is nice.

B: Agreed on Spook. He needed someone to be the main PoV character in book 3 with Vin and Eland being busy fighting the entire time and it was him by default. He worked well enough but was a definitely a step down from Kelsier/Vin. Disagree on the religious elements. I thought Sazed's general reaction to religion, including finding the Terrismen was well done. I really don't know how I feel about the godmodding at the end, but it makes sense. There was literally no other way to save the world, and so much of the setup of the books was about what happens when you gain godlike power and don't have the smarts to use it. Sazed did. The savior of the world being knowledge is a cool touch.  I think I was more bothered by Elend becoming a Mistborn than anything else in the end of the book. Vin slicing through the Steel Inquistors was a little silly. He generally kept things reasonable enough. We -know- someone has the ability to gain the power of all creation from the start of the first book, it's not like it's unexpected.

What'd you think about Marsh?

I will say reading part of the Sword of Truth infinitely improved my opinion of the Lord Ruler's recasting as a tragic hero and Elend. At least Elend can be wrong (And is quite often) and we never get an LR point of view till the last book. It makes a difference- Rashek really thinks and is doing the best he can for his people and isn't just a tyrant. We get hints of this in the first book (Namely seeing him in his hut).

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 25, 2009, 03:51:19 AM
Yeah, I had seen that. I've been reading through the Annotations for Mistborn and Mistborn 2, which are pretty interesting. I am at least grateful for being able to see into the whys and hows of his writing, which is a rare opportunity!

Mistborn spoilers follow.

Religious elements always feel off to me. It's a personal thing. I honestly believe Sanderson handled it extremely well through Sazed, and the look at a fledgling religion and the last vestiges of a dying one were quite well done. Sazed was personable and reasonable enough to appeal to my logical mind, but part of that was probably that he spent half the last book making his own religious journey which is about where I am, too. I'm probably just not at the point where I'm ready to find one, like he did. Well, or become one, as he did. >_>

Again, personal thing. My relationship with Christianity as a religion is heavily strained, so anything hinting at pastoralism rubs me the wrong way. Hence the eye-rolling at the "Love will save the world, the grass is green the sky is blue and we're alive" part of the ending. I totally agree that stuff was leading up to this moment -- and it was very cool that the last Keeper of the world's knowledge of successes and failures got elevated to godhood -- but I still feel the god-making was deus ex machina. Perhaps it's because I am still rattled by Sanderson's tendency to throw the resolution into the final 100 pages of an 800 page book, but it felt like it happened too quickly. Suddenly Vin is a divine spirit and Sazed inherits the souls of Ruin and Preservation and becomes God himself and... I felt like there was more to say about what happened there.

Having read some of his Annotations, I have a much better understanding of where he was coming from as an author. As a Mormon, this all makes perfect sense for him! It is beautiful even if one is not a Mormon (as I am not). I just also think it leads to a few religious/philosophical leaps that are harder for me to make than for others.

Marsh was very interesting. He seemed to be something of a throwaway character at the very beginning -- referenced, but neither dismissed nor elevated so quickly as to be remarkable. Then he showed up with Ministry tattoos and everything went quickly after that. Being able to see the progression through just about every Allomantic/Hemalurgical/Feruchemical process within him was a very cool way to handle the concrete applications of each of the magicks. My main disappointment is that he was too much a golem until the third book, meaning we-as-readers didn't have as much time to see him as a person so much as a force or a container for other impressions. Honestly? I think it worked. It's just that in a field of well-developed character, a slightly personified sketch who holds the entire weight of the lore and magic the books have been building up to feels  ... empty. Irrational disappointment, I think, as he did serve his purpose in the end and he did have enough personality for the reader to sympathize with him during his brief moments, sitting inside his own body as it was controlled by Ruin, wishing things had been different and then finally doing something about it.

I still haven't quite gotten to the Lord Ruler killing scene just yet, but from the rest of the books I can see why the turnaround. I think it was pretty subtle and successfully gradual -- there is the shock of finding out he's not who everyone thought he was at the end of book one, and then the slow realization that he really wasn't who everyone thought he was and now they had to deal with what balance -- however distasteful -- they'd upset. I wasn't entirely satisfied with how they dismissed his pretty evil acts at the end of his life as Lord Ruler, but in foil to Elend's eventual decision they work out alright.

Elend himself was a bit of a problem to me. He didn't turn out to be the character I expected him to, and I felt his transition from scholar to war leader/emperor was a little... forced. But he was likable and, if you forget where he came from, the new persona is quite awesome and definitely satisfies the story.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 25, 2009, 05:45:21 PM
Mistborn spoilers, etc


Yeah, you can see the justifications for the raw brutality of the final empire. Rashek was at the very end of the rope at the book, and Vin helped tip that (Giving the Inquistors power over the Obligators, which would have been extremely bad news for the world).  I suppose the natural brutality of the world makes the characters more likely to forgive the Lord Ruler, but bleh. It still doesn't sit quite right.

Sanderson commented on his board that Vin would have ended up no better than the Lord Ruler if she had held onto the power at the well, and he's likely right. Vin means well, but she's also impulsive and does what she think is right no matter what. She and the Lord Ruler make an interesting parallel in that regard. Reen's 'return' in book 3 was a nice touch. I really liked the depth put into a character that never appears in the books, especially when the Inquisitors reveal he died protecting her and her slowly figuring out that he did all that to protect her, however brutally. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on March 30, 2009, 04:47:47 AM
Wheel of Time reread complete.

Holy crap Knife of Dreams is awesome. I knew it the first time I read it, but it improves even more when you aren't three years removed from your read of Book 10. Great pace, great atmosphere, and lots of great character work. The last chapter before the epilogue (an unexciting and minimally relevant battle) is really my biggest complaint; ... the chapter was necessary but shouldn't have capped things off. Fortunately the epilogue is good. Also, while most of the characters in this book are excellent, Egwene wins the universe.

Ranking of the books, after some reflection:
1. The Great Hunt
2. Knife of Dreams
3. The Fires of Heaven
4. The Shadow Rising
5. Winter's Heart
6. The Eye of the World
7. Lord of Chaos
(gap)
8. Crossroads of Twilight
9. The Dragon Reborn
10. A Crown of Swords
11. The Path of Daggers

Yeah. Seven excellent books and four less excellent (though each certainly has its own very good points), largely due to pacing issues, which of course remain the series' most significant weakness. Books 7-10 could probably be folded into two books.

Not much else to add, it is probably my favourite fantasy series... I should reread Robin Hobb's stuff to see how those compare, but nothing else does.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 30, 2009, 01:40:14 PM
Hobb's work holds up pretty well in rereads I find NEB, Fitz loses a bit of his sympathetic main feel when you aren't a teen anymore, but the writing still holds up. 

Disagree on the overall rankings of the books, but that is minor stuff really. (OH MY GOD I THINK YOU GOT 5-6 LIKE TOTALLY THE WRONG WAY AROUND!!!) Seriously though, while 7-10 are lacking in action... There is still some pretty majour events in there (taking of Ilian through to more than a few engagements with the Seancean) that need the time from the books take to happen.  Without the books there it would either require fairly out of place time skips (There... really hasn't been over the series, the whole thing takes place in like a few years?  I think the only really big time skip I can think of is from Falme to the start of Dragon Reborn and that isn't big... well there is time skips when it happens in the plot, but it is part of the plot relevance where it is and not just a plot device to skip time (Dream Pillar thing for teleportation blatantly in TSR for example, but it also happens in other places they were used).

So while I agree that the pacing is horrible and that something really should have fucking happened in those books, what did happen sort of needed to happen over a few books if that makes sense >_>

Edit - So errr should Jordan have had even more subplots floating around to tie off?  Probably not really that either.  There is a few threads he could have finished off in better timing (TAIM PLOT and last few chunks of Perrin Plot and goddamned Dragonsworn plot) by making them happen there instead of later, but still, not enough to pad out that many books I think.  So I am not really sure what I wanted to happen there really.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 30, 2009, 11:50:41 PM
http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=19734 Three books for a memory of light? Edit: Sanderson makes some good points. I'm more annoyed at Jordan, this is where some of the extra stuff in the later books (Perrin's arc!) could've been cut to make this flow better.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on March 31, 2009, 03:24:34 AM
Sanderson makes his case well. I'm pretty pumped that there's a book coming out this year, to be honest.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 31, 2009, 08:46:23 AM
It is all good reasoning and I do remember hearing the 700k mark ideas floating around and wondering how ridiculously big this book is, I don't need another Man in the Iron Mask on my bookshelf (which is far to big to read practically).  Makes me a little sad to not have the cut off be 2 books though to round the series out at 13, but oh well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 31, 2009, 10:02:22 AM
That makes a lot of sense, and the case is well argued.  Having long since given up on WoT, at least until the series is complete, I could care less about the release date.  However, it is nice to see that in addition to paying the story its proper due (horrendously poor as the late-middle books may be, the world created in the first 6 books and the conflict established are very well done and deserve a proper end), the parties involved are giving the fans their proper due as well.  "Its been three years since the release of the last book, the fans deserve something" >>>>>>>> "It's been five years since the release of the last book, and the next book was basically being written concurrently, but we don't even have a tenative release date for A Dance of fucking Dragons because it's not fucking finished yet jesus christ Martin I understand not wanting to put out an inferior product but holy hell if the book is as disappointing as A Feast for Crows was I will write about it very angrily on the internet instead of ...

Oh, yeah.  What I originally came in here to write about.

Julia Kristeva - Proving that not all feminist thinkers from the 70s are whiny sophist cunts making vague nonsensical arguments about patriarchal language.  I think the article I read for this essay (Women's Time) is from the 90s but still, it is damn refreshing to read something from a pre-Butler feminist writer that isn't complete and total bollocks.

I may not do well on this essay (not for its poor quality but for it not agreeing with much of what my professor's tried to drill into us, if you'll excuse the symbol), but it is satisfying to write.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 31, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
Ah, excellent.  Guess I'll have to start a WoT reread this summer.   Maybe try Mistborn to get a feel for Sanderson too.

Either way, this is exciting news.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 31, 2009, 05:48:58 PM
Start with Elantris. It's a damn good novel, and it's a standalone novel. Very well done and it makes a good lead in to Mistborn.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 07, 2009, 05:16:28 AM
So I've apparently decided to torture myself in a new and interesting way: By simultaneously reading the best and worst comic books I can get my hands on.

The best: Walter Simonson's Thor. I've heard a lot of superlatives about his run over the years, and hell if it doesn't live up to most of them. The first major arc of the run meshes superhero comics and a mythic cast and setting in a way that's pretty near seamless. Balder's arc, the story of Surtur (flashback and present-day), the mortal cast, everything about the faerie world...he even makes an alien cyborg horse named "Beta Ray Bill" somehow fit into a Ragnarok story without missing a beat. The guy's good. As for the art...well, he's better writer than an artist, but he's not a bad artist - weak on detail (not unusual for the 80s), but very strong on composition and action scenes. I'll take it.

The worst: All-Star Batman & Robin. Yeah. Remarkably, it starts out not bad! Not the definitive Batman story of our era (http://www.pvponline.com/my-parents-are-dead) or anything, but Batman-as-total-psychopath is always worth exploring, and his first conversation with Robin actually has some interesting character work in it, for all that it's incredibly ham-handed about itl. Of course, then The Goddamn Batman takes over and it all goes spectacularly to shit. The monologue alone is enough to numb my brain.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on April 07, 2009, 11:32:17 PM
Try the Chuck Austen run on X-Men. It has way less in the way of redeeming points.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on April 07, 2009, 11:52:54 PM
Try the Chuck Austen run on X-Men. It has way less in the way of redeeming points.

Easily the worst comics ever to have an X with a hyphen in front of them.  I refuse to acknowledge its validity.  It's bad X-Men fanfic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 10, 2009, 11:18:27 PM
http://mkingmovies.com/gallery/albums/userpics/vin_fanart_002.jpg

Usual READ MISTBORN SLACKERS whipping plus fan art of Vin, found by CT. (LD you need to so cosplay Vin.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on April 13, 2009, 07:11:32 AM
So I found a Terry Pratchett novel left over from the previous tenant of my house. Since English-language books are rare in Japan, I eagerly began reading it!

Going Postal, by Terry Pratchett, for the few of you who haven't read it, takes place in the infamous Discworld universe (of which I've only read one other book...). It stars an ex-con-artist who gets conned/threatened by a larger, better con-artist (the governor! Oooh, BURN~, Mr. Pratchett!) into becoming the CEO of the decrepit postal service which has been put out of business by a fantasy version of the internet, the Clacks Towers.

The book features a lot of really well-told humorous moments, and a really likable main character. In fact, he's so likable that he borders on a wish-fulfillment-type character at times. But since I like having fun, I'm perfectly okay with his ability to get through life on good luck and charm - he acknowledges this himself to the reader several times, so the whole thing feels like a big in-joke between you and good ol' Mr. Pratchett.

The usual creativity of Discworld seems to still be in full effect with magical physics that are more like pranks than laws, and more personified concepts than are really necessary in any one universe - but hey! It's fun!

Rounding out the humorous story of getting 50 years worth of backlogged mail delivered, Terry Pratchett has this odd tendency of trying to make jabs at serious subjects like government, religion, and economy throughout this fantasy novel which always had a jarring effect on me - I'd be engrossed in his story, reading along at a fast clip when BAM! a clumsy stab at capitalism comes out and suddenly my attention is swerving to get out of the way. While I could appreciate the separate points he was making, these loaded comments were still really distracting to me. It might just be me, though - he DID have the courtesy to make sure his comments could at least also pertain to the situation at hand in the story (See the aforementioned bigger-con-artist-as-governor joke for another example). Still, I couldn't shake the feeling that if I had heard some of these jokes on a British variety show, I would have hurled sharp objects at the TV to keep from hearing the inevitable canned 'Oooooooooh!' from the fake studio audience.

All in all, well-written, fun, and strangely pertinent to current events.

Oh, and the main character's name is Moist Lipswitch. ....? I'm guessing this is a Terry Pratchett thing.

-Djinn
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on April 13, 2009, 07:56:26 AM
Moist von Lipwig, actually.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 13, 2009, 01:55:19 PM
Pratchett doesn't make veiled stabs at anything.  He makes blatant parodies/pastiche of things.  It is what he does and he does it really well.  It isn't a TAKE THAT! at capitalism but pointing to stuff and going well that is a bit fucked up, you could do a bit better there.  He is actually a really smart writer that really shines through the more of his stuff you read (very broad writing style and number of subjects) and the more you are a bit of an art lit fag.  Double plus good if you have a taste for Noir or Fairy Tales though.

Clacks != Internet.  It is a fairly straight rip of Telegram that has some humorous bits because it is used to make fun of Internet tropes (Well in Going Postal anyway, Clacks system is used to expand the setting a bit more to fit in more modern topics methinks, they are generally just used like Telegram).

Generally speaking, love more Brit humour, it is the best stuff out there.

Edit - Actually if you want internet and computer in general humor then stuff with the Wizards is where it is at.  HEX and whatnot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on April 13, 2009, 05:23:19 PM
So, when you say clumsy stab at capitalism, I can only assume you're talking about the dude heading up the Clacks corporation and how he plays his investors like fiddles?  Saying this is a stab at modern capitalism is almost like saying Palpatine is a stab at W in the prequels.  The character is written in broad strokes using very old techniques and phrases, and saying they are targetted at anything is pidgeon-holing a lot of material.  If you happen to draw parallels between the character and the real world, then it is because maybe you need to take a long, hard look at what is wrong with the real world, because an over the top archetype character is drawn from far, far more than any one source.  (In the Discworld case, he is a literal pirate that everyone seems to not notice because he is 'respectable' and spends every single one of his PoV scenes trying to get people to acknowledge this.  "Pirate of Industry" is an old joke, dates at least to the 80s, but if it seems specific then maybe we are fucking up and need to hang some goddamned businessmen?  Just a thought.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on April 13, 2009, 11:01:24 PM
I can't remember a specific quote at the moment, but when I say 'clumsy stabs', I was referring mostly to the one-liners sprinkled throughout the book which are pretty blatantly pointed at more specific subjects. I have nothing against his broad-strokes concepts like Mr. Pirate of Industry. I agree that those were handled very well.

Yes, I'm keenly aware that the Clacks = Telegram, but its whole relationship to the Post Office mirrors the Internet in this novel far more, especially towards the ending as Lipwig* considers it important not to impede 'progress' and such.

I actually really enjoyed the novel a lot and definitely consider it well-written, time-worthy, and it falls into that nebulous category of 'good'. - I hope my last post didn't come off as if I was roasting it...

-Djinn
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 14, 2009, 08:31:50 AM
Nah, not roasting, just responding to stuff and generally hyping.  Seriously, look up the Watch books, they are pretty much the best of the best you will get (More Vetinari also).

I think you underestimate just how huge a deal telegram was when it became affordable though >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on April 15, 2009, 03:50:29 AM
I think you underestimate just how huge a deal telegram was when it became affordable though >_>

Perhaps. I can't say I've spent much time thinking about telegram... ever.

Could you give me the title list of the 'Watch' books? There might be another foreigner around who collects Terry Pratchett novels or something. If I know specific titles, I can ask around.

-Djinn
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 15, 2009, 03:55:30 AM
In chronological order:

Guards! Guards!
Men at Arms
Feet of Clay
Jingo
Night Watch
Thud!

Vimes and the Watch also have significant cameos in The Truth, Monsterous Regiment, Going Postal and Making Money. Making Money is the sequel to Going Postal, if you're interested.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 15, 2009, 04:13:29 AM
Dark Tower 5: Wolves of the Calla. Reread finished.


It slips the mind pretty easily (And King hides it in some vague handwaving about time getting soft), but the DT crew doesn't spend all that long together. I'm not sure even a calandar month slips by from the end of book 3 till book 5.
 

The best part of Wolves of the Calla was Jake and Callahan. Callahan's stuff was great, but it belonged in it's own novel. It didn't belong in the book, not at the length and depth King went into.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on April 15, 2009, 07:24:49 AM
Eh, given what Djinn's said are his dislikes with Going Postal, I'd actually suggest that he not read Making Money, as it has the same problems he noted, only not as deftly handled.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 19, 2009, 04:49:56 AM
Neverwhere- Another Gaiman novel... not quite as good as his other stuff. Very creative, somewhat enjoyable, but... very little feeling. It didn't make me care all that much about well, anything. Just sort of whistlestop story, no real fleshing out ever. You're expected to care about Richard... when you have no real reason to ever. Door is alright, but everyone else... the Marquis has his moments, I guess. Villain is laughable, Hunter is laughable. I didn't give two shits about the betrayal. Coulda been a lot better, but wasn't. Great setting, little substance everywhere else. It appears to have been based on a BBC miniseries, so that may explain it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 19, 2009, 05:10:51 AM
I hate reading and also life.

Fix'd. >:(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bardiche on April 19, 2009, 05:17:36 AM
Quote
Currently should be translating Beowulf  rather than reading  The Outstretched Shadow by Mercedes Lackey & James Mallory or posting here.

I have an entire scale of Mercedes Lackey songs on my computer. But... they write books? Tell me more.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 19, 2009, 05:18:24 AM
I hate reading and also life.

I like casts of one dimensional characters!

Also fixed!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on April 19, 2009, 05:28:17 AM
Gee, my cat keeps screwing that lady cat.

Gee, you should take him in to get his you-know-what removed.

Hm, good idea.  What do you call that?

Fixed!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 19, 2009, 05:29:14 AM
Quote
Currently should be translating Beowulf  rather than reading  The Outstretched Shadow by Mercedes Lackey & James Mallory or posting here.

I have an entire scale of Mercedes Lackey songs on my computer. But... they write books? Tell me more.

:O

Mercedes Lackey is a ridiculously prolific fantasy writer. She has several series out. (I think a lot of the songs/CDs are related to the books, but I am not all that familiar with the music.) She also co-writes a lot of books; the first I read was a co-op with Anne McCaffrey in the Brainship series. Valdemar (Heralds of Valdemar, Vows & Honor, The Last Herald Mage Trilogy, The Mage Winds Trilogy, Kerowyn's Tale, The Mage Wars, The Mage Storms Trilogy, The Owl Mage Trilogy + some short stories -- and those are all titles of collections, not individual books!) is the most popular of her worlds. I've read The Mage Wars Trilogy -- yay gryphons! yay war! -- and enjoyed it enough to then read her re-adaptation of Swan Lake (The Black Swan), the Dragon Jousters quartology and a short story here and there.

In any case, she writes fantasy stories. >_> I think she's worth a look, but as Soppy so eloquently pointed out, my tastes are too rich for some palates.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on April 19, 2009, 05:29:56 AM
O
h
S

H
I--!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 19, 2009, 05:37:58 AM
Neverwhere was okay, but not much more than that. Worst thing I've read from Gaiman, which isn't really a grievous insult given the competition.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on April 19, 2009, 05:40:31 AM
I take it you haven't read his early classic, Shale Sucks Donkey Cock by Neil Gaiman
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 19, 2009, 05:42:53 AM
You people probably read good books.

Sometimes I wonder why I became an English major. Then I remember I'm just lazy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Talaysen on April 19, 2009, 06:45:58 AM
Lady Door: If it makes you feel any better, I'm a fan of Mercedes Lackey's books as well (actually yoinked my forum handle from one of them).

Oddly enough, I found the books with gryphons to be the worst ones in the Valdemar series.

PS: Read the Bardic Voices series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 19, 2009, 06:54:52 AM
They weren't my favorite. 90% of my reading choices depend on convenience -- and that one had books 1-3 actually available at the bookstore. >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on April 19, 2009, 04:24:15 PM
Read Lackey's gryphon books in high school, original Valdemar trilogy a couple years later. Thought it was pretty unremarkable mainstream fantasy, personally.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Scar on April 19, 2009, 05:54:37 PM
I've only been exposed to the soT books and haven't read any of the others. Blame it on some chick I was dating always talking about richard and his sexy beard, blah blah blah.

I enjoyed the first 2 books. The goriness was kind of unexpected. The only other fantasy books I have ever read were Narnia, LoTR type stuff. It seemed like the adult versions of everything.

and all of you hush, the apple scene is/was amazing.

~

Going to start reading a couple of books my brother wanted me to read, notably, "Brave New World."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on April 19, 2009, 06:02:41 PM
You know, every time I think of an apple scene I think of The Illuminatus! Trilogy.

And remember part of how I figured out I was asexual.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ultradude on May 15, 2009, 06:03:24 PM
Mobile Suit Gundam: Awakening

It's... the same characters, and basically the same story, only all the details are different from the anime. Tomino's attention to detail and sense of humor both translated quite well, though he can go off on a tangent at times, and loves his technical details.

Also, very short, as the three individual books make up the actual length of a full novel.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 15, 2009, 07:21:14 PM
So I'm about 2/3-3/4 of the way through The Outstretched Shadow. Overall? It's kind of meh.

That it's team-written is ridiculously obvious, a saddening fact. It seems to be targeted for the, ahem, denser set of fantasy readers -- the main character is himself dense. Though this could have been handled well (and indeed it was somewhat refreshing to see a character that isn't secretly competent at everything except token skill X), the narrative is often third-person focused on this character, so his very belated discoveries come pages and pages, if not chapters, after the reader has figured it out. Since the book is a bildungsroman of sorts, this is problematic.

As ever with fantasy I don't particularly like, however, I'm enjoying the world in which it's set. The characters are nifty too, I just don't think the book is a cohesive effort.

C+.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 30, 2009, 02:18:50 AM
I have three books that I want to finish by the end of the summer; Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb which I got for my birthday, Ender's Shadow, and Animal Farm. It's been a while since I've really read much of anything, so we'll see how lofty this goal is.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on May 30, 2009, 03:41:28 AM
I'd suggest Animal Farm first.  Pretty short, and a good book classic that will probably be more beneficial to have knowledge of than the others.

Also makes Grefter happy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 30, 2009, 04:20:59 AM
Finished Outstretched Shadow right around May 21 and it's about how I typed it in my partial review. I'll get around to reading the other books in the trilogy, but I'm not particularly motivated.

Since then:

New Moon from the Twilight series. I can't help it -- I like vampire/werewolf stories and I hate being out of the loop on book hype for people my age. I remember the first one was like eating a sugar cube: pretty basically structured, thin on the outside, gives you a temporary rush and has no substance whatsoever. This book is the same. And yet... I am looking forward to the next book. Side rant: AHMGOD romance heroines are dippy. Fuck.

About A Boy. Meh? It was okay. I totally didn't realize the author was British, so that really threw me for a loop. Once I found that out (and it's pretty obvious early on), it read like a British novel. Don't ask me to explain that, it was just... typical of British fiction.

Ella Minnow Pea HOLY SAT WORDS, BATMAN. I bought it because it was $1 and I remembered selling a few copies for high school reading back when I worked at Barnes and Noble. It's intriguing, and I love that someone thought to use the epistolary format. I couldn't shake the feeling it was a book with an Agenda, though, which really took away from the story. The SAT words also annoyed me to no end. Vocabulary is one thing, but Jesus.

Guns of Avalon I really love Roger Zelazny, and it's because of the Princes of Amber series. I read it a long time ago (maybe 10 years? goddamnit, I'm too young to refer back to things like that) and I recently picked it up again because Andrew's dad bought the first book for Andrew. I'll note, by the way, that Andrew hasn't touched it yet. Heathen. ;_;

What's up next: a lot of other trashy novels I picked up. House of Sand and Fog, Damia, The Ship Who Did Something Or Other (Anne McCaffrey), and whatever else I pick up along the way.

CAN YOU TELL I'VE MISSED READING FOR FUN?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 30, 2009, 04:49:30 AM
Sanderson has a new novel out next month (Warbreaker), that sounds good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on May 30, 2009, 12:41:33 PM
New Moon from the Twilight series. I can't help it -- I like vampire/werewolf stories and I hate being out of the loop on book hype for people my age.

Wait, you're fifteen years old? </badumpissssssssssh>

I know that was mean and that I just lost twenty years of my life span for the joke, but I couldn't resist it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on May 30, 2009, 04:59:55 PM
Wait? Twilight's -not- directed at 15-year-olds?

I'm seriously asking this. I recently read half of the first book, and if that's not directed at 15-year-old girls and under, I'm going to be very very depressed.

I'm not trying to be elitist. I'm well aware that there must be some kind of audience for meaningless romance/vampire fluff. I mean, I like meaningless action fluff, so I assume that Twilight is the female equivalent in book form.

...But honestly, it read like a children's story. And not even a particularly well-written one. The whole experience was just kind of frustrating, but I know that I'm not the target audience.

I don't know how old LD is, and I don't think there's anything wrong with someone older reading something that targets a younger audience, but I was honestly under the impression that Twilight was a YA novel aimed at 13-15 year-olds.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on May 30, 2009, 05:05:16 PM
Wait? Twilight's -not- directed at 15-year-olds?

Implying that LD is a vapid fifteen-year-old (when she's actually not and she's also totally awesome) was the underlying joke. That will presumably get me choked by the hands of death.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on May 30, 2009, 05:17:32 PM
Andy is Death? ... well, does explain the catgirl thing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on May 30, 2009, 05:27:52 PM
No, Ashley is Death. Andy is just a cuddly little Flareon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on May 30, 2009, 05:38:38 PM
I am now picturing Sandman Death rubbing a Flareon's fur and calling it "Peachy Keen".

This is an awesome image.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on May 30, 2009, 07:01:20 PM
I dunno, I prefer "The hands of fate have doomed this man" as a reference to illustrate Snow's impending demise. But I also never read Sandman.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 30, 2009, 08:00:22 PM
<_<

"People my age" refers to anyone under 25 (and I'm 23, so I still count). That Twilight was written for tweens/young teens is not the point. That it was written as if by a tween/young teen is also not the point. Simple fact is that people my age do read it, and thus I feel out of the loop if I know nothing.

I'll also have you know my mother read all 4 of them. ;) (And she's who I usually get my reading material from, and it really isn't typical Twilight fare either, tyvm.)

Besides. Age-appropriate material is lame. If I did that, I wouldn't've watched It when I was 9 and thus had coulrophobia defined for me.

...

As Andrew says, apparently I will have to kill someone at the DL just to make a point. XD
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ultradude on May 30, 2009, 09:02:54 PM
As Andrew says, apparently I will have to kill someone at the DL just to make a point. XD

...man, making me feel even worse about not being able to go :P
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on May 30, 2009, 10:39:59 PM
You really want her to kill you?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on May 30, 2009, 10:55:13 PM
My bet is that, in true DL fashion, she'll Hatbot the decision, leading to Andy's untimely demise.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on May 31, 2009, 02:06:23 AM
Besides. Age-appropriate material is lame. If I did that, I wouldn't've watched It when I was 9 and thus had coulrophobia defined for me.

Hahaha. Am I the only one who watched it back then and didn't become afraid of clowns?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 31, 2009, 05:54:19 AM
Sopko that just means that you are destined to be a clown.

I'm not trying to be elitist.

Why not?

Also
But I also never read Sandman.

You should get that fixed.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on May 31, 2009, 06:04:03 AM
I'm not trying to be elitist.

Why not?

It doesn't suit me.

And more importantly, that wasn't the tone I wanted my question to convey.

Besides, people have covered (with far better humor than mine) the problems with the Twilight series. It's been said, and I had a different question to ask.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on June 08, 2009, 08:45:49 PM
The Chronicles of The Black Company by Glen Cook- Finished The Black Company (book 1) and enjoyed it despite some minor annoyances.

Finished Shadows Linger (book 2) today and I feel the need to say something. Keep in mind, overall, I'm really digging this. Just, fuck you for doing that, Glen Cook. Just, fuck you. I don't care if you really did or didn't kill that character off. That was one of the more epic instances I've seen of trolling in a fantasy novel in quite a while. Just... what the fuck, man.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 08, 2009, 11:22:20 PM
Besides. Age-appropriate material is lame. If I did that, I wouldn't've watched It when I was 9 and thus had coulrophobia defined for me.

Hahaha. Am I the only one who watched it back then and didn't become afraid of clowns?

Forget that, try watching the animated Watership Down when you're 4 and not being terrified of bunnies.

EDIT:

(http://www.moroha.net/images/crazy_bunny_sm.bmp.jpg)
(http://www.sirlistalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/watershipdown_violence.jpg)

...yeah, I was 4.  That's years of therapy you're looking at right there.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on June 09, 2009, 02:25:19 AM
At first I thought those Bunnies were fucking.  Damn it, Japan.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Strago on June 10, 2009, 01:06:16 AM
The Chronicles of The Black Company by Glen Cook- Finished The Black Company (book 1) and enjoyed it despite some minor annoyances.

Finished Shadows Linger (book 2) today and I feel the need to say something. Keep in mind, overall, I'm really digging this. Just, fuck you for doing that, Glen Cook. Just, fuck you. I don't care if you really did or didn't kill that character off. That was one of the more epic instances I've seen of trolling in a fantasy novel in quite a while. Just... what the fuck, man.

It's been a few years since I read those. Remind me of what you're talking about and why it infuriates you so?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on June 10, 2009, 03:20:22 AM
The Chronicles of The Black Company by Glen Cook- Finished The Black Company (book 1) and enjoyed it despite some minor annoyances.

Finished Shadows Linger (book 2) today and I feel the need to say something. Keep in mind, overall, I'm really digging this. Just, fuck you for doing that, Glen Cook. Just, fuck you. I don't care if you really did or didn't kill that character off. That was one of the more epic instances I've seen of trolling in a fantasy novel in quite a while. Just... what the fuck, man.

It's been a few years since I read those. Remind me of what you're talking about and why it infuriates you so?

The Shadow Lingers Spoilers below
Raven's death(?) by slipping at the edge of a public bath, cracking his head and drowning.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on June 10, 2009, 03:59:42 AM
American Gods- Finished with rather too many breaks in between sittings.  I choose to blame Nintendo's release death-march.

That said I'm not... really sure what to say about it.  While it was compelling reading, in a lot of ways it seems very flawed.  There are definite points where you can tell he wasn't sure how to get from A to B in the narrative, and due to its nature the characters tend towards extreme static-ness (they're Gods formed by belief, so obviously are established characters when they come into being).  Even Shadow I'm not really sure how to feel about.
At the same time the sheer density and knowledge of myth is screamingly obvious, and taken as a mystery the flaws don't stand out as much (that is, the 'confusion' in the narrative can be more readily dismissed as not knowing enough, and static characters are normal within the genre for various practical reasons).  So in all I know I enjoyed reading it, but am hard pressed to say for sure whether this is more related to my own biases or because of its own strength as a story.  Still, interesting in any event.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 10, 2009, 09:02:25 AM
It is Black Company, the world is just that brutal.  Everyone can die from anything.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Strago on June 10, 2009, 02:47:25 PM
Ahhh, right. Yeah, I actually recall kind of loving that. To each his own, of course.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on June 10, 2009, 08:19:08 PM
Gref: In theory. That really hasn't applied for 2.5 books outside of that incident, though. People die, but I haven't really felt much in the way of anyone can die at anytime from anything. Everyone has died in combat or in suicidal decisions. And, given that quite a few named members are still alive at this point (although I have a feeling that won't last), there is still some feeling of plot armor.

Strago: It... is a thing that I found funny/amusing, but also annoyed me to no end? I'll go into it later, but the combination of first person perspective and casual character death has annoyed me on a couple occasions. I mean, there are plenty of ways to justify it, but from a raw, narrative perspective, it has bugged the ever loving hell out of me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 19, 2009, 09:30:20 PM
Ordered the black company novels. Andrew makes it sound interesting, so hey. (Read Mistborn Andrew)

Edit: Warbreaker was good but very much stuck to Sanderson's normal formula. I was able to puzzle out most of the plot twists about halfway through.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on June 28, 2009, 09:01:15 PM
Complete Works of H.P. Lovecraft- For all I enjoy the mythos, I've never actually read any of the books. Picked this up at Christmas and have been slowly working through it, but seeing as how I'm on a trip in New England, I figured it'd be appropriate to bring along and I've made pretty good progress. Currently on Sweet Ermengarde.

The Good: His early work is extremely hit or miss. The Tomb was excellent and probably still my favorite. The White Ship is head and shoulders above the rest of his more fantasy-based work. From Beyond has a great atmosphere and really sets the tone for whats to come in his later stuff. Honorable mentions to The Doom That Came To Sarnath and The Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family.

The Bad: Dagon was pretty uninteresting. Nyarlethotep was a pretty big letdown. The Picture In The House has a great setup but lets you down on the climax.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on June 29, 2009, 12:24:59 AM
Just skip ahead to Dreams in the Witch-House or Colour out of Space.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 29, 2009, 01:01:04 AM
Planetary: In one chapter, you have what amounts to a prolonged dissertation on the physical structure of reality, nanotechnology and the soul. In the next chapter one of the characters kicks a guy's spine clear out of his back. In other words, Warren Ellis wrote it. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 29, 2009, 02:45:30 AM
Planetary: In one chapter, you have what amounts to a prolonged dissertation on the physical structure of reality, nanotechnology and the soul. In the next chapter one of the characters kicks a guy's spine clear out of his back. In other words, Warren Ellis wrote it. Good stuff.

Fun stuff.  Definitely one of Ellis' best.  Unlike a lot of what he writes, Planetary is sincere, a love letter from Ellis to science fiction in which he leaves behind his pretend disdain for superheroics.  what did you read? the collections of the issues?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 29, 2009, 02:56:36 AM
The three collections that currently exist, and the remaining issues. Still have to pick up the sidestories. And yeah, "sincere" is a pretty good word for the series. It's rare to see Ellis overtly address genre conventions without mocking the hell out of them, but there was none of that in Planetary.

Okay, there was the Miracleman thing. Other than that, though!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 29, 2009, 03:27:57 AM
and the Fantastic Four of course, but that's more an homage than anything.

Wikipedia says issue #27, which will be the last, will come out this October.  No offense to all parties involved, but I was in high school when this thing started up.  That's a long time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 29, 2009, 04:08:10 AM
Supposedly the holdup has been Cassaday, which is at least a change of pace from the usual thing where it's the writer's fault when an issue is two years late.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 29, 2009, 05:46:10 AM
I was under the impression it was usually the artist.  Hell, one comic I read died an early death due to the editor not finding time for it in half a year.

Mm.  I wonder who's to blame for Astro City, on that note.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on June 29, 2009, 06:30:57 AM
Don't be fooled, those writer-types can get awfully behind on their brilliant ideas. And considering that the artist has to play to the writer's whims...

This is not a veiled jab at Andrew. There is no veil involved, trust me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 29, 2009, 08:07:27 AM
That is right Andy, Djinn is overtly thrusting your general direction.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on June 29, 2009, 11:23:01 AM
That is right Andy, Djinn is overtly thrusting your general direction.

Y'know, for someone who proclaims disinterest in sex, you sure bring it up alot... >.>;;

And I always seem to be on the wrong end of it...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on June 29, 2009, 11:45:02 AM
So, to distract us all from Grefter's not so subtle lust for Djinn, I may as well mention my own reading of late, since it has recently picked up.

Might as well start with something Super's been hyping for a while.  Mistborn is, in fact, excellent, and I'll be certain to check out the rest of the series.  It also makes me feel fairly good for the finale of Wheel of Time, because his style isn't that dissimilar from Jordan's, and he's a better writer.  One of the key things I noticed is that the book resolved around, well, a small handful of big ol' secrets, and not only were they handled with the appropriate dramatic weight, but they were also resolved in such a manner that you have all the clues, but that you wouldn't necessarily put them all together.  And, the way one or two of them piece together also work to imply information about the world.  So, yeah.  Good stuff.

The other thing I've read lately is a series called the Timeline Wars.  The first two books were pretty good, fluff pulp/tour guide things where you've got a hard boiled Philly PI meeting with all kinds of important figures from WWII, the Revolutionary War Period, and the time of Julius Caesar, as he helps change the course of history in a war over a few million alternate timelines.  A good light read so long as you don't look for plot holes.  The third book...  has a series long McGuffin that is finally supposed to accomplish it's purpose do...  nothing.  Have things which we're told have to happen occur just randomly for no apparent reason, and jumps around in terms of presentation and theme.  It felt less like it was a planned book, and more like the author was contractually obligated to either produce a third book, or otherwise end the series, and couldn't do so to the same standard as the first two books.  Potentially the most interesting in terms of ideas for an alternate history, it's still dragged down by the fact that it's own dramatic tension doesn't really hold together thanks to the shifting theme.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 29, 2009, 02:39:38 PM
Y'know, for someone who proclaims disinterest in sex, you sure bring it up alot... >.>;;

And I always seem to be on the wrong end of it...

It isn't the wrong end from where I am sitting.  You are the Uke even if you don't want to be.

I am not disinterested in it, like all components of the human condition it fascinates me as to why people are so absorbed in the entire process.  It is quaint process to say the least.

Also far more importantly is humor and bad jokes.  If half my jokes weren't vulgar that would only leave the half that people don't notice and I have to entertain someone other than myself occasionally.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on June 29, 2009, 03:28:48 PM
I'm probably the one more disinterested in it, as I don't really find it interesting to try to understand why people like it so much.

I do agree that humor and bad jokes make it worthwhile to study, though.


EDIT: Oh uh... been reading very little lately out of a combined lack of funds and interest; did however just reread through Cryptonomicon and Wyrm. Would like to reread Diamond Age but can't find it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 02, 2009, 11:57:35 PM
Black Company- Read the first novel in the series. Decently entertaining, just by being different from the normal fantasy novel. Not much else to say yet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on July 07, 2009, 02:52:31 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05kristof.html?em

Apparently Nicholas Kristof also has opinions as to the best childrens' books.

Don't think I've read a one of them.  Misspent youth, to be sure.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on July 07, 2009, 03:27:39 AM
The Black Company is good times.  Surprisingly, I enjoyed the second book about as much as the first.  Wasn't as big a fan of where they took the plot in the third book, though.  (And after that, my understanding is that it just becomes cash-in for a minor franchise.)

Agree about Lovecraft being hit & miss.  Notably when he thinks he's writing a detective story, things tend to go awry.  Lovecraft is fine at wonder and horror, but spotty on the suspense.  Still, it's fun in that Lovecraft is one of those exceptions that prove the rule - he violates half the rules about good writing and gets away with it anyway.  Attempts to replicate this usually end in utter failure and meandering sentences of the wrong kind of horror.

Grammar Nazi note: A judge is disinterested in the case before him because he has no "interests" in either side.  Biff is uninterested in literature because he is a bore and would rather spend his time at the truck-stop.

Current reading for myself: "All The Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror" on the 1953 coup that installed the Shah in Iran over the democracy that was there before.  Damnit.  Seemed topical, at least.  Reading the book is a reminder that history is really random, because Truman & Sec. State Acheson told the British to take a hike when they started whining about their extremely exploitative oil deal being overturned.  And Atlee probably would have shrugged and thrown up his hands.  But in short succession, elections return Churchill & the conservatives to power in Britain, and Eisenhower & John Foster Dulles come into the States.  Churchill is definitely a fighter, and they reframe the problem in terms of anti-communism (well, it was the British's darn fault that Iran might turn to the USSR for aid!), and the US gets into one of its most epic foreign policy mistakes ever.  Sigh.

Also: "The Discovery of France."  Amusing enough book about a British guy who travels France on a bike, intermixing anecdotes with a history of the "provincial" parts of France that were wild and crazy and barely connected to the main government for a looooooooong time.  Until 1900 or so, really, still with their own regional dialects that varied from village to village.  And huge forests, scrublands, swamps, etc. - even something that reminded me of Suikoden V's Raftfleet, an entire swamp where 20,000 people practically lived on boats and didn't pay taxes and ignored the government.  A nice reminder that things were fairly wild in the Old Country too while the US was being settled.  (With nice doses of occasional humor, or grisly tales of murdering government officials.)

Yeah, seem to be on a bit of a history kick at the moment.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on July 07, 2009, 03:57:32 AM
Grammar Nazi note: A judge is disinterested in the case before him because he has no "interests" in either side.  Biff is uninterested in literature because he is a bore and would rather spend his time at the truck-stop.

Huh. After some research I can see that Grefter and Tai are in fact, disinterested in sex as they have no personal stake in the matter.

But I'm not sure whether to classify them as 'uninterested' in sex thanks to potentially different meanings there. On the one hand, they have claimed an interest in the process and culture of it, but no desire of the act. 'To be interested in' it can mean both of these things, though. *Grumbles* Damn imperfect English language.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 07, 2009, 04:24:47 PM
Got through four or five books since last post.

Now:

I've started re-reading Wheel of Time! I have about until 5 or 6, IIRC, before I catch up to where I last stopped. Am about 10 chapters in to #1. I do remember why I originally enjoyed it. It's just the stamina required to keep slogging through...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on August 06, 2009, 04:50:12 AM
I am starting on Les Miserables.


Bless my heart. I'm trying to figure out a way to read this behemoth and keep it in pristine condition, as it's the short, super fat copy. I don't like bent pages or anything, so this will indeed be a chore.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 06, 2009, 06:02:47 PM
Am now into #3 of WoT. Jordan's insistence on pet phrases is VERY evident (I should count the number of times I've read "The truth an Aes Sedai tells is not necessarily the truth you hear" or whatever it is), but I like him despite this. Even being aware of it as I am in this read through, there are moments where I don't realize I've just read 150 pages in which NOTHING HAPPENS until way later. In fact, it wasn't until the end of the previous books that I stopped and went, "Wait, we only moved a few weeks?" and stared at the 600+ page book in confusion.

Have also been reading the Dresden Files. They are sufficiently amusing! Definitely what they are, though, which is to say a super-pulpy wizardly twist on the detective novel.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on August 07, 2009, 08:07:43 PM
Quote
Have also been reading the Dresden Files. They are sufficiently amusing! Definitely what they are, though, which is to say a super-pulpy wizardly twist on the detective novel, in which the author consistently strives to somehow make Harry's life worse each and every chapter and, with astonishing frequency, succeeds at making the poor guy the single most abused fantasy character I've read in a long while. Seriously, the guy needs a hug..

Fixed.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on August 07, 2009, 08:17:40 PM
Well who doesn't need a hug?

Read and finished Elantris whilst travelling for DLCon.  Probably the only fantasy novel I've read I'm willing to call fast-paced.  Each chapter has a distinct feel of moving the story, and while sometimes chapters do retread on events in the immediately proceeding chapter, I don't recall ever feeling this was overdone and that it generally was important to do so.  The ending feels at certain points like Sanderson realized he'd planned to leave in sequel hooks (so he could make one later if he had the time/cause) but hadn't actually done very many, so they all come in at a rush, but this isn't too bad really.  Since said hooks are more "there's a lot more to this world that's just outside the scope of this story" than "the story hasn't even started, stay tuned!", it's not really offensive, just feels a little blatant at times.

For the aiels, I will note that this book makes it very obvious why this guy was tapped to turn Jordan's notes into an actual book and I feel he'll do an excellent job.  Hurray!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Strago on August 08, 2009, 05:03:32 AM
Reading Blood Meridian, by Cormac McCarthy. Goddamn, yes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on August 10, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Finished Stitches, by David Small. Technically hasn't come out for publication yet, but my dad went to the huge library convention and picked it up.

It's a visual novel - pretty much literal, it looks from the outside entirely like a book, but the entire thing is drawn out for the most part. And the story? Both awesome and depressing, which is made all the more intimidating because it's autobiographical - about his childhood.

Once it comes out, I'll be hyping it/kicking people into reading it. It's a short but great read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 12, 2009, 09:59:33 PM
I think the start of The Shadow Rising (book 4, WoT) is one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bardiche on August 12, 2009, 10:03:08 PM
I read "Nobody's Boy" by Hector Malot about eleven years ago last.

I've recently begun reading it again. What have I begun.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 13, 2009, 04:34:54 AM
I think the start of The Shadow Rising (book 4, WoT) is one of my favorites.

It does own pretty hard. The entire book is incredibly good, but the setup of book 4 splits up all the mains to their various paths and really sets up the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on August 29, 2009, 07:36:55 PM
Out of all of my behemoth readings for Art History courses that has deterred my reading on Les Miserables, the Women Artists class is being taught through Whitney Chadwick's Women, Art and Society. It's a stark contrast to the Guerrilla Girls' Bedside Companion.

It's one of the largest, and first aggregate art historical attempts at reassessing women artists in terms of the general European Art History canon of male genius, opportunity and fine arts. Therefore, it's clearly taking upon a social history lens in evaluating the circumstances of women and their exclusion from what created the contemporary refined images that represented geographical regions then and now. It uses an art historical approach, but I find the discourse of individual pieces of artworks, both formally and iconographically, are discussed in a short summary approach that skids over what the female artists actually depict. Women, Art and Society then becomes less of an evaluation of their works rather than the historically relevant material that explains the works' receptions, creation and ideology.

This isn't necessarily bad. Perhaps removing the evaluative aspect skillfully dodges the issue of the consistent labeling in the book of women artists. Many of Chadwick's helpers listed in the bibliography are Feminists and the book is clearly taking issue at the integration of women specifically in the field of man made art history, but it's far from the stereotypical bra-burning and facetiously sarcastic tone that the Guerrilla Girls make. Though women artists is extensively an exclusive term insinuating either triviality of importance, termed, perhaps it is dually beneficial to emphasize the term women artists. Artists, by historical writings, discourse, jargon, societal fashioning supported civically, religiously and societally, is a male of random genius who has either received training through guilds, or through divine influence that reflects generational aspirations in the artisan skill of crafting. Women, unless born in a household of a father who runs a guild, are barred from all involvement and public discussions of said generational aspirations. If they were assistants in guilds, they were typically dissuaded to sign their name only adding the anonymity of some extremely popular images said to be made by men [but later discovered not to be, by men, and then de-valued based on sex]. And somewhere throughout the elevation of painting and sculpture through the beginning of Renaissance time and now in Western-based countries, craft became much more feminine, less skill intensive and then relegated the household and domain of woman.

It's interesting. It's depressing. There's so many multifaceted ways in which it is clear that women were purposefully stunted by men and put on a lower ladder of achievement. Sure there are exceptions, such as learning, painting, illuminated texts - that was stopped by men so they could preserve their gender-ized notion of women being sexually, intellectually inferior and that they should focus on the womanly and childish domain of cooking, etc. There are women in pre, med, and proto medieval times who through feudalism began owning much of what men decided only men should own, and then stunted. The male gaze and adoption of that theory, or some would say, natural fashioning that extends throughout the sexes due to a male-based society still exists today.

Issues directly with the book would be the compounded amount of information. It'd be unfair to assume Chadwick could extensively cover each woman artist with the same amount of attention, but she generally throws out terms, names and etc. all within a chapter with non-mentioned terms. It lacks cohesiveness. For example, her Other Renaissance chapter covers perhaps, six female artists, yet the specificities of their work is overshadowed by Chadwick's attempt to include all guild names, with little background, allusions to male artists in parallels of painterly execution, with little background and so forth. It gives off the sense of convolution, when it shouldn't.

This is helping me answer Linda Nochlin's, "Why have there been no great women artists?" question. Sure, if you go by what I said, the definition of artist, which leads to master, is continually a tradition of being a male. Therefore, there are no great women artists as great women artists did not exist. But this is not true, clearly as there are some women with more skill that Coello, or with more proliferation than many of their contemporaries WITH the lack of patronage/commissions. There are great women artists. But why are these great women artists completely ignored by even contemporary male art historians who do not want to adulterate the tradition of art history or take the time in including women artists in their discourse for the sake of purity? THAT, is the question Linda Nochlin! There are no great women artists if people do not care to consistently project them as such. But that answer is tentative as I haven't even proceeded to approach the modern years of art historical methodizing. Proof of existence clearly doesn't mandate inclusion in this field.  
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on August 31, 2009, 03:04:52 AM
Read Elantris, despite the fact that super recommended it. ;)

The book does some really awesome things in its exploration of religion and holy wars, particularly with Hrathen, who could have been the best Knight Templar ever if they hadn't gone and redeemed him at the end. It was nice to see the role played out by someone with an actual personality and clarity of mind. But in the end, they cop out and make him turn against his original views. Sanderson does this skillfully - no one is ever 'out of character' throughout the novel, I just dislike his decision to fully paint the Derethi religion as 'evil' at the end, whereas throughout the novel Hrathen had stood as a good example of a decent man of the religion.

Sanderson also does a brilliant job crafting political intrigue and I found myself more interested in Sarene's story than the more fantasy-themed struggle in Elantris with Raoden and Galloden.

Sarene in general, despite being overall a little too perfect, was really well done and far more believable than Raoden.

Still, great novel, seems to be set up to have a sequel? A++ would read againthe sequel.

-----
No internet means lots of time to read!

I finished the Tiffany Aching series of Discworld books from Terry Pratchett and I'm disappointed to say that I can't find a single thing wrong with them. They pretty much represent my perfect idea of children's literature and even manage to poke fun at Harry Potter without breaking the fourth wall. That's skillful, Mr. Pratchett.

Well... the Feegle were a little too over-the-top sometimes. After the first book I tended to forget they were there anyway... >.>;;

Good stuff, though. Recommended to anyone here who hasn't already read everything that Terry Pratchett has ever wrote...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bouke on August 31, 2009, 02:43:53 PM
Last book I finished was Jacques le Fataliste et son maitre, by Denis Diderot.
It's an anti-novel in the same vein as Don Guijote, albeit a lot shorter (thankfully. One can only handle so much 1000+ pgs. tomes).
Diderot of course, was a famous 18th century French novelist and philosopher.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 31, 2009, 08:05:14 PM
Reading is going to come to a crawl for the next couple weeks because I have an editing project, but in the meantime:

Am about halfway through Wheel of Time #6. In my previous try circa high school, I think I must have stopped reading at roughly three-quarters of the way through #5 because this read started including a lot of things I didn't remember. Why the hell did I stop there? That's where all the action was!

In any case, I am still mostly enjoying it. I have pet peeves when it comes to writing styles and Jordan is really good at triggering many of them along the way. Though the story is very gendered by necessity, it feels hollow most of the time. I suspect this is primarily on account of Jordan trying too damn hard. The relationship between the genders in Wheel of Time is ridiculously stereotypical. The women think the men do nothing but drink or fight, and men think the women do nothing but gossip and try to control their men. I swear I want to slap every female who says Rand's got a big head someone should pop.

I think it boils down to none of the characters being more than self-aware, and it really, really bugs me when the whole arc is supposed to be about world-changing events in a magic system that is so driven by gendered relationships. Perhaps Jordan is more clever than I give him credit for and these bubbles that everyone lives in are exactly the point, and the Dragon Reborn is supposed to free everyone to move beyond their own space (literally and figuratively), but... Rand is just as bad as any of them about it, and the manifestation of his madness is this rabid repetition that I am unsure whether to peg on great characterization or an author's inability to get to the fucking point, thus requiring incessant reminders.

I will say that taking 200 pages to fully recap the previous book and the series as a whole is exactly why this series feels like it drags on forever. Forex, I feel like I don't need to be reminded what it's like for a female to embrace the Source the first time it happens in EVERY book.

Despite all this, I am enjoying the read. However it's handled, the magic system is intriguing and the characters who have grown from its use or influence are interesting. I love me an epic, world-changing fantasy plot.

(By the way, I preordered Sanderson's Wheel of Time book on Amazon. The release date got moved up a week, woo!)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on September 01, 2009, 01:48:09 AM
Despite all this, I am enjoying the read.

Par for the course.  By book seven, you'll be saying "Just get on with it jesus Jordan holy crap did you REALLY just introduce a new plot thread that won't be resolved for 5 books?"  and by book 8 you'll be all "Fuck this I'm going to read something that sucks less."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 01, 2009, 09:29:23 AM
Annoyingly, he does pick up in book 9, but it really isn't enough.  The next book is much better about it and book 11 has lots happen.  It is kind of worth it and hopefully it ultimately pays off.  None of this excuses book 7 and 8 in the slightest though, they really needed some editting with an axe and he needed to be told to finish shit already.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bouke on September 01, 2009, 11:30:55 AM
I gave Jordan the finger halfway through book 9. I vaguely remember being somewhat entertained during books 4, 5 and 6, and miraculously survived (albeit painfully) books 7 & 8. But after that I simply couldn't be bothered anymore.
I don't even remember the reason, all this having happened a very long time ago. Don't know exactly, you'd have to check to see when book 9 was released. Around that time anyway.

Other than that, the only fantasy I'd now even consider finish reading would be ASOIAF. But everyone knows that's never ever going to happen since Martin loves his conventions and blueberry pie (or whatever) too much to be bothered to pick up a pen and piece of paper (or typewriter, or pc).

To go back to a conversation I had with Grefter;


Bouke - "Btw is Martin ever going to finish Dance?"
The Great - "Fuck no."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on September 01, 2009, 11:57:28 AM
Bah. Put down the fantasy for a bit and read some good, hard sci-fi. Like the Mars Trilogy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 02, 2009, 08:40:52 AM
Surely I have hyped Mars Trilogy at Bouke before.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on September 02, 2009, 08:41:54 AM
That was a general hyping for everyone who fails horribly at taste hasn't read it
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bouke on September 02, 2009, 01:11:03 PM
Never even heard of it  :(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on September 02, 2009, 01:35:21 PM
Not that it was really necessary to make a liar out of Grefter, but I appreciate the effort all the same.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 02, 2009, 02:57:56 PM
It is a fairly hard sci fi series about old people having sex in space and colonizing Mars.  Really good character study, really good study on a lot of stuff that was up and coming Science concepts in the 80s (and still quite compelling today), brilliant world building on top of the good character studies and after having read them a couple of times I consider the gradual shift in writing style to match the ongoing age and growth of the characters to be absofuckinglutely amazing.

Kim Stanley Robinson hype for like the third time this year.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 14, 2009, 08:09:09 AM
CS Friedman- When True Night Falls. Didn't post when I finished the first book in the trilogy because it was just okay to me. The series stands out for it's really unique and dark setting, but I don't think she really utilized the potential enough. Anyways, despite being ridiculously similar to the first book in structure, the second book had a much more impactful ending.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on September 14, 2009, 03:01:26 PM
Mm. I need to finish that reread of the Coldfire trilogy sometime. (Reread the first two books, then got distracted by something.) I've managed to remember virtually nothing about the last book.

C.S. Friedman's usually good. Likes to focus on extremes of human behavior; her protagonists are usually very intense and driven people. Also often dysfunctional or outcast in some way. In any event, she does a very good job of getting you inside the main characters' psyches, and I enjoy her books just for that. I think I prefer it when she does science fiction, though. The Madness Season/In Conquest Born/This Alien Shore are all pretty good. Only one I was fairly unimpressed with was The Wilding.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Scar on September 19, 2009, 03:59:37 PM
Just finished the Pillars of Creation in Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series.

The Naked Empire next, because I might as well finished this damn series and be done with it for good!

~

Needs moar Nathan.

>_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 19, 2009, 08:02:24 PM
Mm. I need to finish that reread of the Coldfire trilogy sometime. (Reread the first two books, then got distracted by something.) I've managed to remember virtually nothing about the last book.

C.S. Friedman's usually good. Likes to focus on extremes of human behavior; her protagonists are usually very intense and driven people. Also often dysfunctional or outcast in some way. In any event, she does a very good job of getting you inside the main characters' psyches, and I enjoy her books just for that. I think I prefer it when she does science fiction, though. The Madness Season/In Conquest Born/This Alien Shore are all pretty good. Only one I was fairly unimpressed with was The Wilding.

I will say at least that the third book has at least been non-repetitive (As in, she appeared to use a new base plot) and the inclusion of more characters at least goes farther to making the world seem...more complete. So both of those are marked improvements.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on September 20, 2009, 06:49:44 AM
Finally read my copy of The Orc King the other day. I haven't read a non-poker book all the way through in over a year, so this was a good experience.

Interesting seeing the characters age up as they are. Even weirder still to have the story have parts that are 100 years in the future. The fate of Drizzt's friends is left vague, but I enjoyed the brief mention of Tos'Un. Then again, that was sort of the point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on October 01, 2009, 05:14:14 PM
The Lost Symbol:  Not technically bad, but extremely formulaic.  If you've read the Davinci Code and/or Angels and Demons, you've read this book already.  Here, let me give you the plot summary.  Not actual spoilers unless you haven't read anything else by Dan Brown.


A self-mutilating ZEALOT appears!
A genius female SCIENTIST conducts groundbreaking research in a lab unlike any other in the world.  And she's hot, because all female scientists are.
Our hero, ROBERT LANGDON, is present at the scene of a grisly crime.  Kind of like the old lady in Murder, She Wrote.  Seriously, every place Angela Lansbury went somebody died!
The ZEALOT gives everyone until midnight to meet his demands, for no particular reason.
ROBERT LANGDON discovers something hidden in a HISTORICAL BUILDING that nobody actually bothered to notice before.
A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL chases ROBERT LANGDON through the HISTORICAL BUILDING.  This continues throughout the whole book, since the GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL always arrives a few seconds after ROBERT LANGDON leaves.
ROBERT LANGDON reminds everyone he is claustrophobic, as this will become important later.
An OLD MAN tells ROBERT LANGDON that these hidden SYMBOLS have a special meaning.  ROBERT LANGDON scoffs at this, because he is a Skeptic(tm).  Despite his whole career being about this very thing.
The ZEALOT kills some people, because he is smarter and stronger than armed security guards and government agents.
ROBERT LANGDON solves an ancient puzzle in a few seconds.
Gasp, this leads to another puzzle!
And this one leads to another puzzle!
Wait, we went the wrong way, it was really leading to this puzzle!
ROBERT LANGDON must come to grips with his claustrophobia.
Wait, the GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL was really on our side the whole time?  Whoda thunk it?
As time is running out, the ZEALOT is dramatically thwarted and dies painfully.
ROBERT LANGDON solves the final puzzle, revealing that the great secret is hidden in plain sight of everyone in the world.
ROBERT LANGDON thinks about GOD for a bit, because despite being a Skeptic(tm), GOD is pretty nifty.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 01, 2009, 10:56:37 PM
You aren't following the FORMULA.  This BOOK is about GOD but presented from the MIND of a SKEPTIC(tm) therefore is the BEST BOOK written in FOREVER.  That is the DAN BROWN formula.  You need to MAXIMISE the amount of WANK when you are talking about DAN BROWN books.  Also the book needs to be shit.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 01, 2009, 11:00:43 PM
I thought the Dan Brown formula was presenting awfully wrong and mangled [insert anything that requires multiple braincells to fiddle with here] references and trying to paint them in a way that it looks like he did his research, but failing because the mistakes are egregiously obvious to people with access to functional fingers and Google at worst.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 01, 2009, 11:13:33 PM
That is the WANK.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 01, 2009, 11:23:05 PM
That's a lot of effort for wank when he could be just shipping HarryXHermione in livejournal for maximum wanktential. It's potentially less embarrassing than writing self-insert reality fanfiction where the author's SI main is also Tom Hanks.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 01, 2009, 11:26:53 PM
The man is a big enough tool to self insert as Tom Hanks.  We aren't exactly talking about high hanging fruit here.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 01, 2009, 11:35:18 PM
He somehow manages less dignity than the subset of the HP fandom that cried Civil War-like oppression (as if they were slaves) over pairings in a freaking youngster's book series. This is less talking about hanging fruit than rotten nuts dropped into raw sewage.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 01, 2009, 11:44:32 PM
Dan Brown is certainly well fertilized at least.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 02, 2009, 12:29:38 AM
Late, but I half-expected and half-hoped you'd pull that joke.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 03, 2009, 01:04:15 AM
Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD - So you start this book and it is pretty good.  It gets to the point where Steranko is doing the writing as well as the art and it is really good.  You get to like the last 2 issues and it is fucking beautiful, some of the best comic book layout and all that shit I have ever seen, like seriously amazing stuff.  Then it stops.  FUCK.  FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

It really is James Bond in comic book style (which puts it in its own place because fuck comics are weird and awesome sometimes).  Well worth the money, good reads and good times.  I will have to pick up a Doctor Strange trade I think so I can have the mirrored acid Kirby trip.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 08, 2009, 05:07:31 PM
Brent Weeks, Night Angels Trilogy - I was reading this on the plane to DL Con, read the first book there, second book on the way back and just finished the third book now.  This stuff is trashy pulp.  It is pretty good at at that since it pretty much knows that it is that way.  It is kind of a poor man's Farseer trilogy maybe for the whole assassin thing, but Weeks doesn't have the same flair for character work that Hobb has had since the first book.  It is another one of those things that goes into not good but fun pile.  I dunno exactly how to describe it.

Mostly for Lady Door since she had mentioned she had been looking for the first book (or the third? something like that), considering the rate you (used to?) consume fantasy novels, worth picking up.  For people who don't devour books as much as the English majours do, eh pretty skippable overall, but if you see it cheap then no harm there.

For perspective I guess, if I was going to put it up against another pulpy kind of trashy fantasy series from my youth?  I would pick up Katherine Kerr's Deverry series over this, but I would read it over licensed fantasy game novels. I was going to say Weiss and Hickman specifically and then got all guilty about how much I actually really like Death Gate Cycle and some of their other stand alone stuff, but suffice to say they are better than say your Salvatore stuff.  It is pulpy but doesn't revel and drown you in cheese the way they have a tendency though.  It is still cheesey but only sometimes and normally they ham it up when they are being so.

Edit - Oh yeah perspective being that I bought the first book because I wanted to read something absolutely horrible, picked up the second at the airport on the way out because, fuck why not and got the third one on the way back because by that point I was actually having fun.  So they are bad, but better than the truely horrible I was expecting, but bad in fun ways, which goes with pulp fantasy anyway.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 08, 2009, 05:29:39 PM
It was the first book I was looking for, yeah, and I do still go through books that quickly. It came up on my queue on paperbackswap but I declined it because... well, read the last sentence below. But thanks for the heads up; I'll look into it.

On that note:

Read #3 of the Dresden Files. It is... the Dresden files. Harry gets the crap beaten out of him repeatedly, but manages to triumph in the end. Hooray! Nice trashy pulp detective mystery thing.

Have finished book #2 of the Phoenix something-or-other series (the second trilogy written by James Mallory & Mercedes Lackey). I have #3 in my possession but I'm not super excited to read it so it sits on my shelf a while longer. The series is... not very well written; the previous trilogy was better. It is epic, world-changing fantasy in three relatively short books, so I feel like a lot of normal world/character-building stuff falls to the wayside. The characters feel a bit "cheap," for lack of a better word.

Finished #7 of Wheel of Time, getting to halfway through #8. Since I'll be on a plane Friday night, I'll probably finish that and get good headway into #9 by Tuesday. I don't have too much to say about the books themselves, really. They are ... still Wheel of Time? There's a lot more jumping around between characters, which is a little difficult to wrap my brain around and calls to mind my frustrations with George R.R. Martin and teaser drops (ie, this character's viewpoint ends on a cliffhanger and now for something completely different!). The characters feel like they're finally dropping into character rather than pastiche which is great.

I've read way too much junk in the past few months, though, and my interest in reading more is waning. I will probably muscle through Wheel of Time because I'd like to read the new book (which I've preordered) when it ships at the end of the month, but once I'm through that I think I'll swap over to "literature" for a while. Since I majored in English but specialized in medieval literature, I am woefully behind on my classics. Time to remedy that!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 08, 2009, 07:47:05 PM
I've read the Night Angel trilogy too. I'll agree that it was a little trashy, but I'd also say it entertaining the whole way through (Which is sometimes more than I can say for good fantasy!).

Clearly based on LD's last sentence, it should clearly be for those who go through books like econ majors! I read nearly everything I own at least twice, and the numbers of books left for me to buy in the future is dwindling.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 08, 2009, 10:53:25 PM
Oh well yeah there is a reason I was up at 2 in the morning to post that.  They are pretty fun.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on October 09, 2009, 02:01:19 AM
Finished Gregory Maguire's "A Lion Among Men" last night. It's the third book in his "Wicked Years" series as it's being called now, following "Wicked" and "Son of a Witch".

This story feels very... "tacked on". Whereas Wicked was clearly a brilliant twist on an old tale and "Son of a Witch" was a coming-of-age story that Mr. Maguire was clearly very vested in and simply chose Oz as the backdrop, "Lion Among Men" feels more like a world-building fantasy novel that's more about tying up loose ends than actually telling a story. The writing itself is still good and moves along a quick pace, but overall the whole experience felt phoned in. His usual strength of tying in political and social problems directly into his characters' lives is still present, but he fails to fully explain the political landscape of the time, which is really disappointing considering the attention it received in Wicked and Son of a Witch. Maguire does an admirable job of fleshing out the Cowardly Lion, but the development of original characters Yackle and Ilianora is held back by his need to make their backstories suspense-filled mysteries.

The ending is also incredibly unfulfilling and felt like it needed another 10 pages or so to explain the conclusion of the actual action of the book. This is not to mention that despite being a book who mostly tied up loose ends, it left a few too many loose ends about Liir, Candle, their kid, Emperor Shell, and even Ozma (though this last one could be forgiven).

Despite being a good place to finish up this story, it seems as if Mr. Maguire is going to milk it for another sequel. What's really unfortunate about it to me is how, unlike Son of a Witch, Lion Among Men is completely reliant on the two previous novels to tell its story, and it doesn't feel stronger for having taken less time on exposition.

tl;dr: Good writing; good main character; plot and ending are lacking; can't stand on its own; not as good as its predecessors. Sequel incoming?

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on October 09, 2009, 02:08:09 AM
A genius female SCIENTIST conducts groundbreaking research in a lab unlike any other in the world.  And she's hot, because all female scientists are.

Well duh.  ;D
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 09, 2009, 02:44:54 AM
Science is hot. You people haven't been listening to Grefter enough.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 09, 2009, 08:46:06 AM
On that note, Candide, just saying.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on October 09, 2009, 05:15:48 PM
Science is hot, math is ugly.

The true theory of relativity, that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on October 09, 2009, 07:55:02 PM
Man, when it comes to sexy, Heuristics >>> Algorythims.  True, yo.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 10, 2009, 01:06:09 AM
Nah OK, you don't fully understand what you say, Science is conventionally sexy with a great personality (Like Summer Glau or something) maximising the obvious sexy.  Math is sexy like Sean Connery.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 10, 2009, 02:41:20 AM
Mistborn - yessss. I'll comment when I'm done (into Part 5 now) but this has been a very enjoyable read. Consider me officially on the aiel's hype train.

(That's part 5 of book 1, by the way. Spoil and die, etc.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 10, 2009, 07:12:35 PM
So the last issue of Planetary finally exists. Truly, we are living in the end times.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on October 11, 2009, 07:10:53 AM
So the last issue of Planetary finally exists. Truly, we are living in the end times.

Thanks for the head's up.  I...never thought I'd see this day come to pass.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on October 11, 2009, 07:21:25 AM
Speaking of end times, there's a new Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy book coming out.  And it's being penned by Eion Colfer (writes the Artemis Fowl children's books).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 11, 2009, 01:30:00 PM
Mistborn - yessss. I'll comment when I'm done (into Part 5 now) but this has been a very enjoyable read. Consider me officially on the aiel's hype train.

(That's part 5 of book 1, by the way. Spoil and die, etc.)

Spoiler: It sucks to do laundry in that world?!

Glad to see you're enjoying it. Elantris is also worth reading as well, Warbreaker less so.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 11, 2009, 09:13:12 PM
I actually reread Warbreaker pretty recently, and I did like it better on a second read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 13, 2009, 01:56:29 AM
Mistborn - Finished this on Friday. I don't really have time for super in-depth reviews, which is just as well since it means I can write a relatively spoiler-free version.

The good:

Very cool book overall, has the two things I look for most in fantasy: some solid character work and a believable, consistent, interesting magic system. The setting is pretty interesting; it's a pretty stock despotism, but the unique history and the philosophical questions of whether the Lord Ruler is actually justified is kinda neat. The setting also shows signs of the magic clearly percolating through society, which is very nice.

Character-wise, a few of the characters were very good. It's pretty hard not to like Vin, she makes an effective main and an admirable person even if she is at times (believably) childish and naive in a distrusting way. Kelsier I didn't expect to like much at first, since initially he seems like he's going to be the "prefect" fan insert, but his own flaws of overzealousness and overconfidence shine through at times. I found myself looking forward to any time the two interacted, in particular.

Plot was strung along pretty well. Some notes, and as it's hard to avoid the SPOILERS here...

Sanderson likes plot twists, apparently. The guy writing the entries at the start of each chapter being the Lord Ruler was one I called almost immediately, and it seemed pretty cool. I'm actually a bit unhappy that another plot twist got layered over this one so that it WASN'T him... we just don't learn enough about Rashek to ultimately care about him, and this greatly hurts the Lord Ruler who was promising to be a more intriguing character than he ultimately was. I really hope later books shed more light on him.

Kelsier's death was really unexpected, but looking back it just made way too much sense. Good show there. Marsh ex Machina was kinda random. I liked Marsh well enough in his limited screentime though, so... well, if it goes somewhere cool in later books, it'll be worth it. Solution to killing the Lord Ruler was pretty amusing.

I'm actually rather surprised that Elend ended up as uncompromisingly sympathetic as he did. Sanderson did a pretty good job of colouring expectations of him from the point of view of Kelsier and crew, I think.

The end felt very packed together, and this isn't necessarily a good or bad thing... just kinda unexpected I guess. It makes sense because those events would have to happen very quickly, just I'm not used to most storytelling, but especially fantasy, doing things like that.


Very impressed overall, so a few nagging things. One, I didn't always feel as immersed in the situations of the characters as I'd like... usually in the form of minor descriptions that seem missing (Vin doesn't have any comments about drinking a vial of metal for the first time?). Also, it seems character worth drops off fairly dramatically for the side characters compared to the mains - Dockson, for instance, is around a lot but I got virtually no feeling for him besides "Kelsier's friend". Generally, though, the concerns are small, and ones I am willing to overlook because they seem like the mistakes of a young writer. It'll take some time for me to decide exactly where Mistborn falls in my estimation, but safe to say it's very much on the high end of fantasy. Yay. Heed the aiel's word, slackers.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 20, 2009, 05:39:17 AM
Spoiler warning. Worst is concealed or skirted, but if the slightest spoilers bother you and you just want to know my recommendation, don't read past the second second sentence of the next paragraph.


Finished The Well of Ascension. Outstanding book, even better than the first. I really enjoyed some of the themes Sanderson explored in this novel. I always enjoy a fantasy story with some political stuff tossed in, but the book took it to the next level with an interesting look at leadership and what makes a good leader. I also particularly enjoyed the relationship of Vin and the kandra, which again, took some interesting looks at the relationship of master and servant. On the note of relationships, I liked Vin's and Elend's. Sanderson wasn't afraid to explore the impacts of what each is doing on their relationship, including areas such as Vin worrying about being perceived as a violent assassin, the differences between Mistborn and normal human and the tension it creates, and the more mundane but still interesting effects of duty and maturation on the relationship and the need to be needed. There is also the theme of religion and faith, and I'm not quite sure what to make of how the book handles it, that will require further reflection.

The ultimate plot twist was rather clever. As Sazed observes in the epilogue, we're hit with a big clue as to what has happened ( Nothing not written in metal can be trusted ) and we ignore it as rambling, just as the characters do. Or at least I totally fell for it. Cute. I also liked how the destructive force abused Zane; the taunt it leaves him with was one of the most memorable scenes in the book (whole fight was. There's something about Mistborn; their fights are cooler than any other I've seen in fantasy, and I enjoy them where I gloss over most fantasy action).

Character-wise... on the one hand, nobody could replace Kelsier, so Vin very much stood on her own as the book's best character. The flipside of this is that there are quite a few more good characters. Elend was handled generally well, although I'm not as sold on him as his plot importance suggests I should be. The kandra, as mentioned, I ended up liking a lot, and I didn't expect to since he just seems rude and stand-offish at first. Interestingly, turns out it is TenSoon who is the interesting character, not OreSeur. In hindsight, that was the biggest clue that a switch had happened. Breeze got some minor point of view stuff which I really liked; he is a bastard manipulator but has such a good heart, and the dichotomy is fun, not to mention he gets good lines in both word and thought. Zane was solid, a nice subversion of the mysterious badass trope. You don't expect him to be so fucked up, yet his raw charisma and planning lets him almost succeed in his plans. Lord Cett is minor but randomly badass (an honest tyrant is still a tyrant). Straff is at least a total douche and is fun to cheer against. Jastes Lekal fails more than the likes of Charmles. Sazed I still need to figure out my opinion on.

Vin, of course, remains admirable, a delightful combination of emotional strength and weakness, a total badass who is also a teenaged girl from a broken home. Sanderson doesn't shy away from exploiting just how impressive a person she is, and he doesn't shy away from the problems her personality and temperament create. She is exactly what I like in a main character and undoubtedly one of my favourites in fiction. Also, let's not overlook it: Mistborn are cool. They just are.

Sanderson is pretty much a master of plot twists. It can be argued he likes them too much, but he is really damn good at plotting them out and pulling them off. As I've mentioned, quite a few scenes are going to really stick with me.

My only real complaint, and this part does involve some general spoilers (so be warned!), is that I don't like the setup for the third book. Well had an awesome setup. The chaos in the power vacuum created by the destruction of the hated Final Empire is a wonderful setting for a sequel (as a quote on the book says, I did always want to know what happened after the good guys won...). By comparison, I am less excited going into the final book. "Now we must do battle against the ultimate evil" isn't nearly as intriguing. Also, I didn't figure it out until I started writing this post, but Elend getting the gift he got at the end of Book 2 bothers me, because it feels like it just tosses out all his character development as this combat-shy man who has tension in his relationship with a Mistborn because of their differences (already touched on the multiple ways that was interesting in the first paragraph). And I never liked the Steel Inquisitors as villains. Oh well.

Of course, less excited is no insult. I am still eager to read, because I know that Sanderson can take some mundane things and add his own interesting twists and themes and make them very much worth my while. He's surprised me enough already that I expect him to surprise me here.

Brandon Sanderson is officially one of my three favourite modern fantasy writers. Perhaps this should come as little shock, given that my other two apparently both think extremely highly of him (i.e. Robin Hobb has some extremely glowing praise for him quoted on the book jacket, and Robert Jordan liked him enough to have him finish his own prized work).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 20, 2009, 01:14:53 PM
Oh yeah. I pimp it out whenever someone reads Mistborn, but check out his website when you're done (Brandonsanderson.com) His annotiations are really cool to read after you're done with the books.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 27, 2009, 06:11:55 AM
Furies of Calderon: This was surprisingly good. Well, it shouldn't be that surprising, since it's by Jim Butcher, who writes the Dresden Files, and those are awesome, but I didn't expect him to cross over to straight-up fantasy as well as he did. Nothing spectacular, but a good read, and I'll have to pick up the rest of the series sometime.

Variable Star: Had this thrown at me by a friend who wants to hook me on Spider Robinson's work, despite the fact that it's based on an unfinished Heinlein manuscript (I hate Heinlein). It was pretty good, although a few remnants of Heinlein's style grated, and Robinson's random filibuster against George Bush and organized religion were just weird. I'll have to borrow some more of his stuff.

Batman: No Man's Land: Holy shit that was good. The writers just take the basic principle of the story and develop it from every possible angle, and it adds up to something special. The idea is that Gotham City is hit by an enormous earthquake and eventually given up for lost and cut off by the US government, sending everybody who didn't get out in time back to the stone age. You get stories on the barter economy that springs up, stories on the gangs that end up controlling the territory, stories on the remaining police trying to keep order (my favorites), stories on the regular people trying to keep it together, stories about the neutral-zone hospitals that crop up...not all of them are good, but many of them are, and with 100-some issues in the arc not a one felt rushed. It adds up to one of the most richly developed settings I've ever seen in a mainstream comic, with some good character work for the bat-people to boot. And as a side bonus it introduced both Harley Quinn and Mercy Graves in the comic continuity, which is fun for the DCAU fans.

Still need to pick up And Another Thing...; don't have very high hopes for it, but I didn't have high hopes for Mostly Harmless, and I still read that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 27, 2009, 03:38:09 PM
Gathering storm: Mine.

Life: What life?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 27, 2009, 04:24:08 PM
New WoT book shipped to me. I'm still finishing the one before the one before that (Winter's Heart). :( Not having bus/BART time to read REALLY kills the amount of reading I've been able to get done.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on October 28, 2009, 02:46:52 AM
Hmm, two chapters in to Gathering Storm.  Sanderson says the intro to Chapter 1 is the first thing he wrote, and it shows.  Aside from that, it doesn't just feel like Jordan, it feels like good Jordan.  Like the way he gets when everything is coming together to make one beautiful moment.  And apparently the end of Book 14 was penned by Jordan himself before he passed on.

I have a very good feeling.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 28, 2009, 04:49:56 AM
You should, it's probably the best book in the series. I just finished it, and DAMN.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on October 28, 2009, 05:45:31 AM
I remain skeptical that it's good enough for me to slog through book 8-11 anytime soon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on October 28, 2009, 06:06:46 AM
Nah, I'd say wait  a few years until the series is done to do that.

That said, now around chapter 9.  Book is still good, things still happening at a pace similar to Book 11.  Which is decently impressive, especially when you realise that Book 10 was basically the week after the events at the end of Book 9.  My only complaint so far is that the writing is fairly stiff as it's coming across as Sanderson trying to write like Jordan, and the two of them have different natural patterns for writing and description and the like.  And the conformity Sanderson's doing is definately causing the very dense, flowing, prose of Jordan to be less dense.  As such I'm wondering if the parts that flow better do so because they were written later, after Sanderson had more practise, or because they're the ones that Jordan did the most work on before he died.  The comforting part though, is that the more important the sequence, the less noticable this is.

So yeah, will be finishing this in a day or two at latest, and it will have to work to be worst book in the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on October 28, 2009, 09:48:17 AM
Read those Ciaphas Cain books. They're a decent yarn.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 28, 2009, 09:52:22 AM
I actually read through one of the compendiums of Ciaphas Cain a few months back.  It almost made me like Warhammer 40k but then they go and get all serious about it and it kills it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 28, 2009, 08:09:00 PM
Book 12, nonspoilers:

It blends Jordan and Sanderson's styles. The more rapid style is Sanderson's, but more than that I think it is Jordan finally getting a move on with his series. This honestly should've have been done after book 7 at the latest instead of just  meandering the way it does through path of daggers through crossroad of twilight.

Example:

"Rand walks into a room, wearing black and red."


 The detail's been reduced, as the scope of the book is much broader now. Certain scenes that would've been in previous books are glossed over.

Spoilers

The execution of the Black Ajah members and Elaida being nearly overthrown by her own ajah

It's missing some of the richness of the previous books, but not enough to really be a strike against it. The book is already giganic (750 pages hardcover) and some things had to hit the cutting room floor. Much as I love the series, it's fine with me. You can take advantage of the exposition and character work done in previous books and just get a move on. It focuses largely on two PoV's in the book. Two major PoV characterss barely show up, and a third isn't shown in the book. This is more of the way the book is cut, as you can see things and scenes you're missing by the way it's structured.


Major spoilers, do not read these until you've read the book:



The book just kicks ass all around. It starts off taking care of massively overdue business- Executing Masema. Points to Faile! Beyond that, 95% of this book is about Rand and Egwene's story.  Rand finally reaches his breaking point when... well, you have to read it to see it. As soon as he says the words, you know what is going to happen. It's just brutal. Egwene more or less wrapped up the white tower arc and most of Verin's storylines.

Problems: Mat's tone felt off and some of the wrapping up does feel rushed. Can't be helped at this stage, I suppose.



If it's not the best book in the series, it's close. Just so much resolves itself. It finally feels like the beginning of the end, so to speak.

Best scenes- These aren't in order, just picking the best five right now


1. Verin's confession. This doesn't surprise me at -all- and fits the character perfectly, but DAMN it had an impact. Jordan makes it very clear from the beginning that no one, not even Moiraine, trusts Verin in the least. They had good reason for doing so, but she was on the good guy's side in the end.
2. Rand oblierates Grendael and her palace with Balefire
3. Rand destroys the Choden Kal.
4. Rand uses the True Power.
5. Egwene unites the White Tower and purges the Black Ajah. More specifically, her coronation and her line about greed for knowledge. That greed led to Moghedien getting free and other mistakes.

There are countless other great scenes. Nynaeve growing up and admitting that Moiraine's method of dealing with Rand was right and her character arc in general was great. She was the last one who could quail Rand's rage and prevent him from going too far off the deep end.


Best character- Not in order

1. Rand
2. Egwene
3. Verin
4. Nynaeve
5. Uh. Wow. The first four were obvious. Faile was barely in the book but had a great scene, Min was barely in it, Mat was barely in it, Siuan/Gawyn/Bryne were all solid but can't compare to the first four. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AAA on October 29, 2009, 04:19:47 AM
emptyquoting your own post, Super? For shame.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 29, 2009, 04:22:24 AM
Edited.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 01, 2009, 01:30:09 AM
Elfboy- If you want to read my thoughts on mistborn, scroll back a few pages. Nothing has really changed.

Warbreaker- I didn't really go into any detail about this book.  I enjoyed it, but it deserves a bit of expanded commentary which I did not do last time.

The bad: The ending. It wasn't bad in the Xenosaga 3 sense of 'are you fucking shitting me? Jump off the nearest cliff you inept assholes and land on the semen drenched corpses of your mothers), it literally wasn't there. Sanderson wrote a fine novel, but got 90% of the way through and realized he had to wrap most of it up. This feels like a flaw directly related to it being an internet novel in print form. I still consider this to be inexcusable. You literally solve the problem of the undead army in the final ten pages. The warbreaker himself was not a well done character and lacked enough camera time to be fleshed out, and for once I didn't really care about the backround of the world.

The princesses on the other hand were great. The way he breaks down the older princess to the point of her seriously considering whoring her virginity away so she can be warm and eat is belivable. It's amaizng what a few weeks of starvation and being sick will do, and he perfectly captures it in novel form. The younger one mostly grows up along a more predictable path. That's my major problem with the book. The big twists aren't hard to figure out for the most part, and feel secondary anyway to the character building .Blah.

The small merc band that the older princess works with? I just thought it clicked. THAT plot twist caught me off guard, as it was supposed to do. It felt like Kelsier/Vin again, except the kindly man taking the young girl under his wing was really a monster after all.Magic system wasn't bad, but didn't do it for me like the mistborn magic or Raoden's runes in Elantris. Good book, just needed some more work done.

Lightfoot was generally cool, but on reflection his scenes don't really stick to me the way the girl's did. The scene where he remembers/is told what he did to become a god is fantastic.


The gathering storm spoilers:
I really wish they had shown the execution of at least Sheriam.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 01, 2009, 01:37:09 AM
Breakfast of Champions, Kurt Vonnegut.


This is made of pure awesome and win.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on November 01, 2009, 01:56:15 AM
Kurt Vonnegut.


This is made of pure awesome and win.

Still accurate.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on November 01, 2009, 02:02:52 AM
The Gathering Storm: Read about half the book today to finish it. Awesome. Focus on only two plot threads, but they are by far the most interesting/important plot threads. Since Super prompted me earlier, top 5 scenes/characters


1. Verin's Confession- I suppose of all the things to wrap up in this book, this may indeed by the one with the longest time coming. 10 books!
2. Graendal's Death- For almost half the series, Graendal has been our eyes into the Forsaken. Even in this book, While some of them still feel like somewhat vague entities, she was the one that felt the most fleshed out. So to see her die in a split second from a long distance away in the middle of the book was definitely surprising (And awesome).
3. Egwene's holding of the Tower against the Seanchan-
4. Egwene dressing down Elaida-
5. Rand breaking the Choedan Kal above Dragonmount- This is partially just to note that the final culmination of several aspects of Rand's character development that have hopefully now been resolved. So we've probably gotten past his issues with women- although maybe not until Moraine returns next book- as well as gotten past his attempts to be hard, not to mention the permanent banishment of Lews Therin. The scene was good on its own merits, but neatly tying up several aspects at once made it worked quite well. Not so shocking: Cadsuane helps him again by failing! Although I suppose he hasn't cried yet.

Characters in order.
1. Verin- Win. I haven't really even wanted to be spoilers in here because holy crap. Not many scenes, but she rocked the few she had.
2. Egwene- Killed it in basically every chapter. She just really fully came into her role in this book, and her continuous subtle work was excellent. Earning the esteem of basically everyone in the tower, holding off the Seanchan, and really cutting off the Black Ajah were all awesome. She really should be number 1, but Verin was just special.
3. Rand- Rand had several good scenes, although it was hard to compete with Egwene's steady flow of subtle awesomeness. Still, he perma-offed two Forsaken, rubbed Cadsuane's face the mud, and appeared to overcome a few of his more headaching inducing personality traits!
Hmm...I was going to try to list five, but I feel a lot of character here are kind of in the same boat. Min, Nyneave, and Aviendha all came to either important or obvious realizations (Okay, I guess the obvious realization was Min. Although as Aviendha noted, maybe she still has a few realizations left ahead of her).
4. Okay...I lied. After writing all this, it did come to me there was someone who did deserve the 4th slot, but wasn't immediately obvious since a lot of journey was tied up in Egwene's and we're certain never to see into her head. Yes, it's...Silviana! And no, I didn't immediately remember her name and had to ask Super. It didn't mean that her facing down Elaida and almost leading to her deposement wasn't awesome, even if we didn't directly see it. Rubbing her new station in the face of Lelaine and Romanda didn't hurt either.
5. The raken that carried off Elaida into the sunset...Oh, Itulrade was pretty cool too.

To Super: I found myself pretty satisfied with the description of Sheriam's last moments, especially her breaking down at the end because even if she realized she was free from the Forsaken who plagued her so, she couldn't escape the Dark One even in death.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 01, 2009, 02:07:03 AM
I think I forgot to mention that I read Cat's Cradle right before it.  I went out and bought Slaughterhouse 5 (Finally was actually on the shelf for sale...), The Man with no Country and.... something else by him as well.  Bought 2 Sanderson books to try out and Gathering Storm as well as the newish Kim Stanley Robinson (which might end up being a present for someone).

$220 in books and I got to carry home a few kilograms of books, but meh, worth it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 04, 2009, 05:55:59 PM
Lots of stuff to wrap up today!

The Hero of Ages

Finished this last week.

It wasn't, ultimately, as good as the first two books to me. It lacked the unique dynamic Kelsier brought to the first book (Kelsier and Vin stand above the rest of the cast) and the excellent themes and relationships of the second. Still, there was plenty to like about the conclusion of the series, including the ultimate resolution, which went down an unexpected yet sensible and forshadowed path, and the blossoming of the third, underused magic system of the world. Hemalurgy was at the centre of a couple of key plot twists one of which I was embarrassed to not realise earlier (the one related to Spook) and one of which gets mega points for cleverness (Vin's earring, the innocent keepsake, being a spike of Ruin and the source of Vin's enhanced bronze ability).

The stuff in Urteau (the north) was... mm. It really suffered from not having a strong character there; Spook was forced as a main, although I'm not really sure who could have played the part better there. The payoff was solid, but it took a long time to hook me, because part of me would go "Spook POV? zzzz..."

TenSoon perspectives were some of the most interesting in the first half of the book, neat to finally get a look at kandra culture and I was curious about the character after he impressed me in Book 2. I wish more had been done with him towards the ending, but so it goes.

Vin and Elend's story isn't immediately as interesting at first, partly because neither koloss nor Inquisitors are especially interesting antagonists. However, their story gets rolling once Yomen enters the picture. Yomen was certainly one of the pleasant surprises of the book, since he presents a very real and needed antagonist that would naturally have come about after the conclusion of Book 1, and his arguments and actions are compelling. Thoughtful and competent. The stuff with him and Vin and later Marsh was pretty much the book's climax, and made for a great scene.

Marsh got more screentime in this book. He mostly serves to give us an insight into the actions of the big bad, though the scene where he finally gets to exert his own will, however briefly, is certainly satisfying.

As a series overall, well, I obviously liked it quite a bit. As mentioned, I think Vin and Kelsier were both excellent characters. I also liked TenSoon and Elend (although yeah, I don't really think he should have been made Mistborn. Sanderson justifies it as being a way to show the reader how Mistborn came about, and notes that it doesn't actually change Elend too much, which is true. It's actually a rather nice touch that althought he becomes a very strong Mistborn, he's not a very good one, because Mistborn is more about training and tricks than strength. Still, I think I'd rather have had him be an atium Misting, so we could still have the cool bit at the end of the book, and he could think he had a useless power before then). Sazed... worked reasonably well, he's a pretty unusual character type and went through some different crises than is usual for a fantasy character, although the angst in Book 3 pushed my patience at times.

Beyond the decent character work, it had a solid setting and a very good magic system, the latter being super important to me because without magic systems you might as well read non-fantasy; I just dig them a lot. In the description, and detail, and hard-and-fast rules Sanderson gave Allomancy, there is a magic system more compelling and interesting than any I have read about save the One Power (and it has some advantages over that, even... it's even better-defined, and makes for some excellent fight scenes, something I think fantasy typically fails at). It's not perfect, but certainly ends up as one of my favourites.


The Gathering Storm

Finished this yesterday. (Note: I've hidden spoilers for Book 12 here, but not spoilers for the previous books.)

It's certainly a good book. I can't second Super's hype for it being the best in the series, for reasons I'll get to shortly, but it is certainly good. We really only have two major perspectives, but both are handled well, and both go in somewhat unexpected directions. Going into this book, we expect Rand to deal with Forsaken, and we expect Egwene to deal with Elaida. Their actual conflicts don't take them away from those, but they add another ripple.

In Rand's case, despite the fact that he offs TWO Forsaken in this book, that's not the main conflict. His arc is instead about him coming to terms with the darkness that has consumed him, his need to be hard and emotionless. We come so close to seeing where this leads him. The chapter where he almost kills Tam, and then the one where he almost destroys Ebou Dar is haunting... both are nothing short of haunting.

In Egwene's case, her story becomes about more than simply dethroning Elaida. It becomes clear early in the book that removing her won't be especially hard, even. Elaida has already lost so much face with her fellow Sisters that Egwene is able to make good headway. The difficulty becomes not seeing the Tower Aes Sedai as enemies at all. Egwene's story becomes not about control, but about uniting the tower, and healing the wounds in it.


There's a lot to like in those two story arcs. The flaws in the book come from the rest. The Mat and Perrin arcs both feel like they generally waste time. They don't take up too many pages, at least, but that's not really the point.

In Knife of Dreams, every single one of the major character arcs saw significant movement. Rand met and battled Semirhage, Egwene turned her imprisonment in the tower into a way to bring down Elaida, Mat's relationship with Tuon deepened ending in their marriage and his hunting down of Suroth's minions sent to kill her, Perrin finally resolved the damn Shaido arc, and Elayne secured the Lion Throne while eliminating her Black Ajah and Darkfriend guardsman spies and a large number of their allies.

So Book 12 only having major movement on two arcs is disappointing by comparison. Elayne is also absent entirely for the first time in the series... but I'm actually more forgiving of this since she has had more screentime than anyone else in recent books, and her arc reached a satisfying conclusion in Knife of Dreams, so it's more like Perrin's absence from Fires of Heaven than it is like Mat's absence from Path of Daggers. Still I'd obviously be happier if she had more of a role!

But yeah, back to the good, and that is certainly the Egwene arc and the Rand arc. Actually, this seems as good a time to get into...

Best scenes: (in order of occurence, rather than how good they are)


0. The end of Masema
I almost forgot this scene, which is why it's numbered 0. It's in the prologue, I can get away with it! We finally see Masema's thoughts, and he comes to a satisfying end. "Sometimes a wife must do what a husband can not", indeed.

1. Rand is chained by Semirhage and channels the True Power:
It's stock storytelling. Rand is caught unawares by Semi, who, in true fashion, tortures him the best way she knows by having him try to kill Min. In furious desperation, he channels the True Power, the power of the Dark One himself, as his only way out, killing Semirhage. It should be a victory, but instead the scene is very dark. Rand has channelled the True Power, something permitted only to servants of the Dark One, indicating the Dark One wanted this. And he is broken, as Min's efforts to soften him, which seemed to be working, are now at an end and he becomes near emotionless. He dismisses Cadsuane, who, bully though she is, is essential to Rand's survival. It's a victory for Rand, but one that we know has sent him down the wrong path, and it sets the stage for the rest of Rand's story.

2. Egwene vs. Elaida
Egwene has worked admirably to win over the support of many. She's impressed Silviana, the woman who spends a couple hours a day beating her at Elaida's order. She's impressed various Ajah Heads and Sitters, including the Black Ajah Hunters (Saerin et al.) and has learned of their hunt from them. Elaida finally forces Egwene into an outright confrontation here. It's a pathetic display for Elaida. Egwene is in the right, and everyone, readers and most characters, know it. Egwene blasts Elaida not for her grab of power, but for daring to let the Tower fall into ruin during her tenure, and it brings to a head Egwene's quiet war for the hearts and minds of the Tower. After the scene, there's little doubt Elaida is finished, and she never appears onscreen again except briefly as she is pulled to her karmic fate in the Seanchan attack.

3. Rand vs. Graendal
See Dhyer's comments. No Forsaken has had more screentime than Graendal save Ishamael, who is a different beast entirely. What Rand does, thus, is shocking. His explanation is suitable: "sit down to play the game, then punch your opponent in the face". It's probably the only way he could have dealt with Graendal. Perhaps it's fitting that he dealt with her during some of his darkest moments, the second and final time he truly unleashes the power of the Choeden Kal. Part of me feels it's a waste to get rid of Graendal like that; by comparison, Demandred and Mesaana still live and have very little character development (besides Dem's comic self-importance), but hey, that's part of why it works.

4. Verin
I don't really need to say more here. It's delightful to see that polite old woman give the Dark One the finger in such a way. The scene COULD have been better, like if we'd heard the wording of the Black Ajah oath of allegiance before (I don't think we had?) but it still works pretty darn well. Verin utterly betrays the Dark One and the Black Ajah. I liked her comments about how she and Tomas were both just looking for a way out, and Tomas, just like Verin herself, has taken his own life to escape. Still, it's a fitting conclusion to an often perplexing character, and explains her often curious actions very well.

5. Egwene fights off the Seanchan
Forkroot? No problem! The scene just highlights how resourceful Egwene can be. She has really learned the Tower well, and she knows, unlike most Aes Sedai, to look outside her own ranks. Linking with novices and using a sa'angreal in order to repel an invasion is unexpected and effective. It's more a stylish scene than anything else, but Egwene is due one after spending two books captive and being beaten, even if she was experiencing victories. Also, Elaida is carried off to her karmic fate. Jordan sure loves those.

6. Egwene takes control in Salidar
There's a lot to like here. Romanda and Lelaine, though humanised in recent books, are both threatening to take control. Egwene had to come back and take a firm hand, and she does just that. Her leadership in this scene is commanding. Armed with the Oath Rod and the list of Black Ajah names, she does what has needed to be done for a long time, and runs with the Black Ajah hunters' plot on a leadership level. Sheriam meets her end, and you can't help but feel a bit sorry for her as she realises she is going to be the Dark One's eternal plaything even in death.

7. Egwene's acceptance speech as Amyrlin
I said these scenes were ordered by appearance, because I find it easier to talk about them this way. The other reason is because I have trouble ranking them. However, I will say this: this is my favourite scene in the book.

Egwene takes no prisoners here. She reminds everyone that mistakes have been made, reminds everyone that allowing this fracturing to happen is the last thing the world needed. She attacks even those who we would consider good characters. She doesn't spare Siuan, nor her own followers who raised her, nor the Sitters such as Seaine and Saerin who hunted the Black Ajah then supported her. At the same time, she reaches out to everyone, even naming a Red her Keeper. She forces the Tower to contront its future of dealing with the Dragon Reborn and the Last Battle, and forces them to face the fact that reconcilation with the other faction may be painful. But damned if she doesn't make them, and the reader, believe that it is what must be happen, and that the White Tower isn't about to be the strongest it has ever been. The sword will be reforged, indeed.

Side note, the Black Ajah leaves this book in ruins, but I'm surprised just how many there were. Explains where a lot of the Tower rot came from, but one can't help but wonder why so many Black Sisters couldn't accomplish more. Meanwhile, with the remnants of Liandrin's group, along with Galina, dealt with in Book 11, and Sheriam and the majority of minor Black Ajah sisters dealt with in this book, there aren't many left... but Jordan made a point of some of the key names escaping. Alviarin and Katerine chief among them, though other escapees have been dropped. And two Forsaken still have their hands in that group. Safe to say we haven't seen the last of them.

8. Rand almost kills Tam
Rand is seriously fucked up. There's little to say about this scene. It's touching to finally see Tam and Rand meet again, and it serves as a highlight to how crazy Rand has gone that he almost kills his father. It's understandable that Rand doesn't like being manipulated, but... holy fuck. The scene just... works, as an illustration. The Ebou Dar scene shortly after has the same effect, but it's less personal, so it doesn't work quite as well... except it shows what Rand is capable of at the moment, even when he is being "rational".

9. Rand laughs
Narrowly averting two disasters, Rand runs away to think. It's almost too convenient that he comes to the realisation he has to on his own, but perhaps it's the way it had to be. He had built his walls so high that nobody could reach him. I thought it would be Tam, but nope. Still, seeing his father likely gave him the push he needed. Rand remembers the good things he has lived for, and remembers what makes life worth living. And he finally realises that, obsessed over Ilyena as Lews Therin is, the only thing he can do for her now is to ensure the Pattern continues so that her rebirth is assured. As Rand regains his senses, we are treated to the resolution of the Lews Therin arc, and the confirmation that yes, Lews Therin IS nothing more than a voice in Rand's head. Rand had been insane, but now, at last, he is on the road to healing. It'll be interesting to see how Rand has turned the corner in Book 13.

Destroying the Choeden Kal seems almost secondary to the scene. I'm not entirely sure why he did it. Perhaps he saw the massive power as too much temptation to simply destroy when the Dragon Reborn's job is so much more. He did almost use it to destroy the Seanchan when this was something he could not afford to do, just because his attempts to bludgeon them failed.

I liked how the book painted some sympathetic people on opposite sides, here. Tuon's scenes deserve note as an effective small arc. She's sympathetic, yet stands up to the Dragon Reborn and sends her armies against the White Tower. Granted, it's been strongly forshadowed that the Seanchan are here to stay and the southwest is going to be permanently under their control (Beslan swearing to Tuon is strong evidence) so making a rocky peace with the White Tower is likely in the cards somewhere. Interesting to see how that plays out, given how opposed the two naturally are.


Whoops, went on there longer than I should have. Oh well!

Best characters
1. Egwene. Yeah if you've read the spoilers, you know this was an easy pick.
2. Rand. I enjoyed his personal struggle in this book.
3. Verin. One scene is just one scene, but this was one pretty badass scene.
4. Gareth Bryne. Didn't get a chance to hype him in the above, but seeing him through Gawyn's eyes brought out another side of him, and I liked his interaction with Siuan.
5. Silviana. Egwene has to win over a lot of people in this book. By screentime alone, Silviana is probably the most convincing. And yeah, implied Elaida ownage is badass.

Good book. Not as good as Knife of Dreams, but I'll have to decide exactly where it falls compared to Books 4, 5, and 9. Sanderson's handiwork can be seen on it (characters are more introspective, focus on fewer, stronger arcs), but for the most part, the mixing of his style and Jordan's worked well. I do have a slight complaint about how Sanderson keeps changing perspectives but ultimately it's not that big a deal.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 04, 2009, 06:34:09 PM
Think the book is third in the series for me. (Book 5>2>12>11>4? Hell, I can't remember the specific order but those are easily the best five in the series, with Eye of the world on their heels and everything else behind.)

Perrin/Mat/Elayne not being in the book much at all feels like a reflection of the way Memory of Light was split. That doesn't bother me much persay. Ultimately why 12 gets so high is that for the first time since book 7, Rand is a focal point rather than a side show. (Hell you can argue book 6 as well, Ebou Dar dominates crown of swords). Egwene's PoV badly, badly needed that as well. 

Title: Re: Books
Post by: AAA on November 05, 2009, 03:56:56 AM
The Gathering Storm:

I'll make no bones about it. The Gathering Storm is my favorite WoT book. Easily. I very much prefer Sanderson's style to Jordan and he took the previously established storyline and ran with it. Extremely pleased with the results and that he's at the helm for the last two books.

Not going to write an essay about my favorites scenes and such but as far as I'm concerned the Holy Shit Quotient went through the roof. The big scene with Rand at the end was very well done, and I'm relieved since I always thought that particular scene, when it came, would involve gallons of melodrama and sappiness. Generally just had the shit is getting done feel of the last book but turned to eleven. I don't care very much about it only being two plot threads since they are easily the most important of the bunch in my opinion and involves the better characters.

My theory is that Book 13 will be based on Elayne and everybody else that sort of got the short shaft this time around, and then the last book will be the usual 'everybody gets together, last few plot threads are tied up, Forces of Evil beware' that is every finale.

Say...if someone who has keeping track would oblige me, what's the current tally on Forsaken still alive? Assuming that everybody people think have died are actually dead and weren't red herrings or whatever.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 05, 2009, 05:51:40 AM
SPOILERS, obviously!
.
.
.
.

Still alive: Six. Moridin (Ishamael), his servents Cyndane (Lanfer) and Moghedien, as well as Aran'gar (man in woman's body), Demandred (full of himself), and Mesaana (crazy teacher).


Casualties:
1. Be'lal got balefired by Moriaine in Tear.
2, Rahvin got balefired by Rand in Caemlyn.
3. Asmodean got murdered, possibly balefired, by someone, possibly Graendal (or maybe Bela). Regardless, he's not coming back.
4. Sammael got eaten by Mashadar in Shadar Lagoth. He'd betrayed the Dark One's orders and isn't coming back, as such.
5. Osan'gar, the artist formerly known as Aginor, got killed by Elza Penfell, Black Ajah, wielding Callandor.
6. Semirhage got balefired by Rand in Arad Doman.
7. Graendal met the same fate as Semirhage, only hers was SUPERCHARGED.

.
.
.
.
.
END OF SPOILERS
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 09, 2009, 05:20:20 AM
Quote
3. Asmodean got murdered, possibly balefired, by someone, possibly Graendal (or maybe Bela). Regardless, he's not coming back.

I'm pretty damn sure it's Graendal. Brief rehash (I've babbled about this before), just randomly reread the end of the fires of heaven after browsing Jordan quote sites last night.

The clues from Jordan: The dark one couldn't revive Asmodean, both for where he died and how he did. We can also figure it based on fires of heaven.

A: Mogheiden outright says that Grendael is in Andor that day with Lanfear/Rahvin as part of the trap. B: Rand's hurt after leaving the world of dreams. Someone else was interfering in his battle with Rahvin, the things Rahvin did were reversed. Not the fish cuts and some of the other things that happened there in the world of dreams though. C: Asmodean knew the person. He did know Slayer! But this would be odd, as Slayer isn't in the book and we get no clue outside of random Jordan comments that the two did know each other.  And seriously, slayer randomly appearing to kill Asmodean out of the clear blue sky would be a bad joke. He gets owned hard at the end of book 4, and doesn't appear again until much later.  D: Pretty sure the where part is related to the world of dreams.

I don't see how anyone else fits. Lanfear's busy and the rest of the forsaken are scrubs.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on November 14, 2009, 11:03:31 PM
Re-reading Battletech's Blood of Kerensky trilogy for the first time in forever. It's amusing how dated it is in it's sci-fi. Quasi-hard sci-fi based on 80's technology, basically. Character work is still good, cause it's Michael Stackpole when he's really trying (which he stops doing, literally, in the middle of Malicious Intent). Does a really good job of completely mapping out an alien society through Phelan. The dualism in Victor and Hohiro's characters was always interesting. Shame Sun-Tzu Liao doesn't start being relevent until way after this. Laughing at the faux-Japanese in the Combine parts is still great.

I still wonder how easy it would be for someone to get into who isn't knowledgable of at least some of the Battletech history. Every single book at least tries inform you of the basics, but there's really just too much to the universe to really just pick this up. I would guess at least The Warrior trilogy would be good before this, even if it's not really as good. The context of the 4th Succession War is pretty important to keep in mind even in BoK, even if it doesn't cover stuff like the true depth of the Kurita/Davion rivalry. BoK does enough to explain that though and there's always the glossary in the back for information.

If you liked Stackpole's X-Wing stuff, BoK is worth checking out since it's far better than any of them, even if most of the other Battletech books aren't.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on November 16, 2009, 12:14:03 AM
Having recently re-read the Warrior trilogy, Soppy, I will point out something I noticed.

There is not a single named Capellan combatant anywhere in the trilogy, and no scenes ever play out from the PoV of a member of the CCAF. It really makes their entire army come off like a bunch of faceless mooks. Also he spends an obnoxious amount of time pointing out ways that other states are inferior to the FedSuns, but never even touches the reverse. Most notably, he has Melissa Steiner do this once, which is fucking annoying.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on November 16, 2009, 01:00:09 AM
I'm not surprised at the former. None really do until Coleman came out with the books about the warrior houses. That said, outside their insanity, none of the Liaos outside of Sun-Tzu were ever interesting anyway, including Candace. If Candace had been smart or interesting, she'd have fucking killed Sun-Tzu when she had the chance.

The latter I'd suspected, but never payed attention enough to confirm. It makes sense in the context of the trilogy since otherwise the feat accomplished seems even more absurd. He breaks out of it by the time BoK rolls around, since Hanse had been humbled by the War of 3039.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on November 16, 2009, 06:33:29 AM
I'm not surprised at the former. None really do until Coleman came out with the books about the warrior houses. That said, outside their insanity, none of the Liaos outside of Sun-Tzu were ever interesting anyway, including Candace. If Candace had been smart or interesting, she'd have fucking killed Sun-Tzu when she had the chance.

Shit, they didn't even have to be Liaos. They could have cut all of Redburn's page time and replaced it with some Capellan MechWarrior who serves in the CRC, constantly being beaten, falling back and trying to figure out what's going on, and it would have maybe given the impression that the Capellans might not lose every single fight that this one dude personally gets in to, at least. The way Stackpole did it, I was expecting to see "You won! Got 50 xp and 22 gold!" at the end of every battle scene, that's how irrelevant they seem.

Quote
The latter I'd suspected, but never payed attention enough to confirm. It makes sense in the context of the trilogy since otherwise the feat accomplished seems even more absurd. He breaks out of it by the time BoK rolls around, since Hanse had been humbled by the War of 3039.

He doesn't. He has Theodore Kurita talk about how Hanse Davion attacks the Combine to strike blows for "freedom and equality" in Blood Legacy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on November 16, 2009, 06:45:11 AM
I'm not surprised at the former. None really do until Coleman came out with the books about the warrior houses. That said, outside their insanity, none of the Liaos outside of Sun-Tzu were ever interesting anyway, including Candace. If Candace had been smart or interesting, she'd have fucking killed Sun-Tzu when she had the chance.

Shit, they didn't even have to be Liaos. They could have cut all of Redburn's page time and replaced it with some Capellan MechWarrior who serves in the CRC, constantly being beaten, falling back and trying to figure out what's going on, and it would have maybe given the impression that the Capellans might not lose every single fight that this one dude personally gets in to, at least. The way Stackpole did it, I was expecting to see "You won! Got 50 xp and 22 gold!" at the end of every battle scene, that's how irrelevant they seem.

Fair enough. Not that there's anything wrong with Andy Redburn, honestly, but that would've made a better book.


The latter I'd suspected, but never payed attention enough to confirm. It makes sense in the context of the trilogy since otherwise the feat accomplished seems even more absurd. He breaks out of it by the time BoK rolls around, since Hanse had been humbled by the War of 3039.

He doesn't. He has Theodore Kurita talk about how Hanse Davion attacks the Combine to strike blows for "freedom and equality" in Blood Legacy.

I'm pretty much to the end of the Outreach segment and I haven't seen that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on November 16, 2009, 07:37:11 AM
It's when the Hounds and Dragoons come to Luthien. Theodore is like "When he attacked us, we saw greed for our worlds, but Hanse was doing it because he believed he was fighting for freedom and equality!" And as Stackpole illustrates repeatedly, whatever Hanse Davion thinks is right.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on November 16, 2009, 07:49:11 AM
I'll keep a look out for it.

And not entirely true. Hanse also thinks the occasional numbness in the left arm is a common condition below the attention of a doctor.

I keep forgetting how awkward the dialogue is sometimes. I guess he manages to make it better in Natural Selection and Assumption of Risk (probably his best character work), but by Bred for War he kinda goes on the backslide again for the crash at Malicious Intent.

EDIT: Also, in the scene where Kai and Deirdre are talking about the Court thing where Romano was badgering her, she mentions she couldn't hate Kai because "the worst officer in the universe was in the room", which made me wonder how badly Romano would have been thrown off her game if Deirdre had shared her hate for Justin Allard with her. I think Romano's head would've exploded.

EDIT2: Finally found the quote you're referring to. Teddy also calls him stupid and foolish for harboring such notions. He's more trying to prove a point about the flipside of motivations to ridiculously stupid officers.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on November 17, 2009, 06:04:14 AM
Feasts of Souls (CS Friedman)- So far, a big improvement over her previous fantasy trilogy. 2 of 3 books in, and the first isn't a complete plot rehash of the second! Although, feels like it makes a much, much, much better use of it's good setup (Which...I guess isn't hard, given that it was one of the Coldfire Trilogy's downfall on several accounts). That said...the length...where the fuck is the rest of the book? Yeah, a bad fantasy writer can get away with a 400 page book, but in this case, it feels like it's not remotely enough (If this was not a trilogy, this would be a completely different story, but there feels like there is way too much I'd want the final book to cover unless Friedman wants to again ignore a good chunk of the things she could do with the story).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 28, 2009, 06:07:01 PM
Eye of the world- Finished rereading. 

The best scenes in the book are less character work and more Jordan showing off his world. This is the only real look you get at the Blight in the entire series (Which is a shame). Jordan really excels at selling a journey. One things the books lost after Fires of Heaven was that sense of exploration. It's somewhat of a shame. Other things of note: The Forsaken are off to an impressive start here! Balthamel gets owned by a living tree and Agnior is so greedy and overconfident that he has the Eye of the world ripped away from him because the moron left Rand alive. Good work. The Forsaken's pattern of being completely owned by their own idiotic blind spots starts early in the books.


1. Fleeing from the two rivers
2. Travelling through the Blight
3. Rand and Mat travel through Andor
4. Rand controlling the Eye of the World
5. Travelling through the ways.

Rand meeting Morgase is up there, Thom biting it, Shadar Logoth, etc.

Best characters:

1. Rand
2. Nynaeve
3. Moiraine
4. Lan
5. Thom

Nothing shocking. Perrin/Egwene are boring as sin, Mat barely exists. Thom gets a good deal of character exposition done and works well as a mentor for the boys, specifically Rand. No change from the last time I've read the books.  Rand is Rand. Nynaeve is utterly fearless. She runs away from home, tracks down the boys, and swears to do what she can to help them. She hasn't altered a whit from this plan in twelve books, even if some details change. She even treats Rand exactly the same in book 12 as she does in book 1, and no one else can claim that. It's just neat to see the foundation layed there.  Moiraine owns as always and Lan's backstory is told here. He has decent interaction with Nynaeve as well.


This book has some problems with the pacing. The Egwene/Perrin stuff drags on for way too long and the setup goes on for way too long. I was talking to Tonfa about the books, and he's 200 pages in. That is dead smack in the middle of Barelon.  The Great Hunt is much better, and benefits from starting at a very cool setting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 29, 2009, 01:44:19 AM
I disagree with scene #4 being good (always found it too bizarre, though that is the point, since Rand doesn't understand what he's doing) or Thom having much worth (we've been over this before), but I didn't mind the Perrin stuff as much as you. It's not the best, but it's real development for the guy, something Mat and Egwene both completely fail to get.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 29, 2009, 01:58:00 AM
The Perrin stuff just is boring as hell on a reread. I liked it the first time I was through the book, but it drags badly on a reread. Go away Whitecloaks.

The EotW scene wasn't something I liked the last time I was through. I just rather enjoyed the shades of later Rand when he wipes out the trollocs and struggles to remember who he is. Just stuck with me. It bears repeating, but the Forsaken suck. The more competent of the duo got killed by the Jolly Green Giant. Ishy getting cut up was sad, but he isn't really playing to win at that point.  It's a tribute to the backstory of the world and how well jordan writes that they can still be threats. (Lanfear especially, her chemistry with Rand is great. Oddly enough I am also going to say Rahvin, he was barely in the books but him taking over Andor had a ton of impact.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on November 30, 2009, 02:14:38 PM
My sister immediately bought three Twilight books and devoured two of them after seeing the New Moon movie on Thursday >.> She's working on the third and buying the fourth <.< She also watched the Twilight movie before going to see New Moon. In English class.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 30, 2009, 02:25:04 PM
She's 16, it is the right age for it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Random Consonant on November 30, 2009, 06:08:48 PM
She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 30, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
The Gathering Storm:  Good stuff.  Everyone else has pretty much covered how I feel about it.  Do like Sanderson's writing much more than Jordan's, and you can tell which of them wrote what.  "He stepped onto the green, which was not green at all..."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on November 30, 2009, 10:04:01 PM
16?  Might want to set fire to that fourth book, by all accounts.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 30, 2009, 10:48:58 PM
She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

Ahem.

Quote from: CT
She also watched the Twilight movie before going to see New Moon. In English class.

The United Kingdom education system disagrees with you.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 30, 2009, 11:30:57 PM
Currently on page 537 of The Gathering Storm.

You could DEFINITELY tell Sanderson wrote the prologue. It was night and day. I have a slightly harder time picking out "Sanderson" in the rest of the novel, but the interactions feel a bit less forced than Jordan's and I believe character was something Sanderson really got into in his own work. You can tell this was written by a SUPERFAN, but it's not overbearing and it doesn't stretch credulousness.

Andrew made a comment that made me smirk, though: SANDERSON is writing the ENDING?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 01, 2009, 12:02:49 AM
I was under the impression that the last few chapters were written by Jordan before he passed, myself.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 01, 2009, 12:24:06 AM
Correct. A lot of the last battle is written out (The entire final book), it's book 11 and the later parts of 10 where it's sketchier.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 01, 2009, 04:37:53 PM
I was speaking, generally, of what these last three books are supposed to be: the end of the series. I know Jordan wrote things himself, but Sanderson's in charge of getting us there. We shall see how that goes. ;)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on December 01, 2009, 05:33:50 PM
Can't be any worse than Jordan by himself!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 01, 2009, 07:21:58 PM
Hard to say. He hasn't ended something before.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 01, 2009, 10:01:09 PM
Finished The Gathering Storm. I can't imagine how Jordan anticipated fitting this and two more into a single volume, but I am glad it was split up and I suspect Jordan would have come to the same conclusion as well. I fear it suffers from the "1 of 3" syndrome (a la The Matrix Trilogy, Song of Ice and Fire, etc.) in that it loses some impact because it is not truly complete, but it does have some awesomeness all its own that manages to distract, for the moment, that you won't be able to finish reading this "last book" for years yet.

I do see Sanderson in how the characters were written and how pivotal moments are spotlighted in dramatic floodlight. Holy crap but does Sanderson know drama *jazz hands*. <_< But I also see Jordan in the intricate plot lines, in things coming together after 11 goddamn long books of threading to prove that he really did need at least a large chunk of that meandering waffle he created. Then again, that is also something Sanderson did with Mistborn. To be honest, separating the two is difficult: Jordan had a fetish for foreign cultures, Sanderson has one for drama and religion, but the two really are matched in what they write and why they write it. It helps, of course, that Jordan is why Sanderson does what he does.

**I am too lazy to separate them out, so be wary of spoilers below.**

This is definitely the book leading up to the climax, the Big Battle against the Dark One. You can see it in the darkness creeping into just about every character, in the way they justify actions, speech, relationships, etc. Death is lighter than a feather, duty is heavier than a mountain is sort of the catch phrase of this book. Rand uses it as a mantra (to his detriment, unfortunately). Egwene pushes aside her love of Gawyn and friendships in order to see the Tower healed. The two of them are the focal point, but you can see it in Verin when she makes her final choice; in Nynaeve and Lan when they do what they feel must be done in sending him to the Borderlands; in Perrin who gives up everything in search of Faile and begins the hard road of getting it back no matter what it takes; in Faile who does what she feels she must for Perrin; in Siuan for being, well, Blue. You don't see it as much in Elayne in part because she is a very peripheral character here, but also in part, I think, because what she does is so mundane next to the magnitude of what every other character is entangled in. In fact, she seems to be the only one not in the middle of preparing for Tarmon Gai'don. Curious.

** End of maybe spoilers. **

I think Jordan and Sanderson balance one another out fairly well. I'm interested to see how the last two go. And goddamnit, if Sanderson starts taking as long as GRRM, I'm going to be pissed. >:( I hope they stick to their proposed release schedule, though I also hope (of course) that they don't have to push out sub-par novels to do so.



Title: Re: Books
Post by: Random Consonant on December 02, 2009, 12:22:07 AM
She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

Ahem.

Quote from: CT
She also watched the Twilight movie before going to see New Moon. In English class.

The United Kingdom education system disagrees with you.



Well, that's the UK education system failing, then.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on December 02, 2009, 01:35:28 AM
She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

She's 16, it is the right age for it.


There is no right age to read what is apparently creepy Mormon propaganda masquerading as bad vampire porn.

Ahem.

Quote from: CT
She also watched the Twilight movie before going to see New Moon. In English class.

The United Kingdom education system disagrees with you.



Well, that's the UK education system failing, then.

I can only assume that it was shown in class as part of a lecture on abusive relationships and Battered Housewife syndrome. Really, Twilight is an amazing portrayal of how horrible relationships can be romanticized in a victim's mind.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 02, 2009, 07:03:38 AM
I can only assume that it was shown in class as part of a lecture on abusive relationships and Battered Housewife syndrome. Really, Twilight is an amazing portrayal of how horrible relationships can be romanticized in a victim's mind.

So is your face.

This my friends has been your daily lesson in how to make jokes in bad taste.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on December 02, 2009, 07:07:37 AM
Your mom is a joke made in bad taste.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 02, 2009, 07:13:22 AM
And your mum isn't a joke but she does taste damned fine.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bardiche on December 02, 2009, 06:44:11 PM
So I received "Sans Famille" for my birthday, bought myself "Deltora Quest" (all 8 books in one) and found a Chinese novel called "1/2 Prince" in English... man, I guess I've enough to read until Christmas at least.

The chinese novel is actually pretty funny. Girl gets male avatar in massive online game with 99% realism (including the senses), and has to fend off masses of girls trying to date her. Somewhere along the road she becomes a rockstar.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on December 03, 2009, 07:33:03 AM
Unseen Academicals: Good stuff. Not great; the idea that football's been going on in Ankh-Morpork for decades without ever being mentioned before never stopped nagging at me. But it's new Pratchett, and I'm not complaining about that. Hopefully he brings Nutt back, or writes a book about the Dean. Or both.

Moment of sadness: the book is dedicated to Rob Wilkins, who typed it because Pratchett is no longer in condition to do that himself.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Scar on December 05, 2009, 07:28:58 PM
So I am finally finishing up the Sword of Truth series. Can't say that I have been overly dissapointed, but the majority of the people here seem to look down on the series.  I've been plowing through "Confessor" ever since my friend let me borrow it and I must say, things are finally happening and it is awesome.

If I were to rate the books on how I like them, this is how it would look!


(Spoilerzzzzzzzzzzzzz!)



11. Pillars of Creation - It was Wizard's First Rule only with Jensen playing the part of Richard. Sorry to say, but I had seen it all before. Plus, Jensen just was plain retarded through half the book. Oba was ill used and when he did get used it was kinda rushed. The end of the book became interesting, but that's only because Richard showed up and saved the story!

10. Naked Empire - The Slide should have been a much cooler villian, but once again was used poorly. Also, I hated the group that were pacifists yet poisoned Richard to do their bidding. That makes sense! Then they become ruthless murderers at Richard's request, even though throughout the entire book you are under the impression they are without any combat experience and abhor any form of violence. Richard for President!

9. Blood of the Fold - Only this low because I can only remember a couple plot points about this book. Crazy guy of the Order wants to get rid of magic and uses his magical sister as means to accomplish that goal?

8. Soul of Fire - You are forced to watch the lives of these slaves of this empire for a good portion of the book. And what are they used for, fodder? Their only goal is to retrive the Sword of Truth for plot convenience. I honestly thought they these charders would be used better. Oh well after five books I should have figured new characters never last the long in this series!

7. Faith of the Fallen - I like this book, but for some reason this was the book that I had stopped reading midway through. I took a good two years to get back into it. Kinda glad I did as Nicci became an interesting character.

4, 5, and 6. Chainfire, Phantom, and Confessor - I lump these books together because they all go together pretty much. Though if I had to say, I liked them all individually. Chainfire was good because richard finally had to question himself and his sanity. It took him to the brink, but of course he was right. Richard is ALWAYS right! Phantom was the typical middle book in a trilogy type setting. Confessor had Ja'La. I fucking love Ja'La. Also, I'm not done with Confessor, but I do like to see things get wrapped up and after 11 books it good to see things starting to do just that.

3. Temple of the Wind - Need I say it? The sex scenes that were required for entrance to the Temple. Priceless.

2. Stone of Tears - This one had it all. Metal Gear Richard. Demons raping women. Sexually depreived Wizards, The introduction of Nathan fucking Rahl (my favorite character in the series. Oh hwo I wish they used him more. >_> ), Richard single handedly taking down an organization that had been around for a thousand years, and so much more.

1. Wizard's First Rule - What can I say, this one started it all. If not for some girl I was trying to get with's contant declaration of how good this series was, then I might have missed this series all together! So thank you Kriss, you dirty bitch! 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 05, 2009, 11:08:49 PM
You missed the part where nothing other than the highest ranking one there is worth reading.  Got up to Faith of the Fallen myself as a teen and when a 16 year old is picking up that the book is nothing other than blatant strawman against Communism (written in 2000 for fucks sake, you missed that boat by JUST A LITTLE) then you have a book that is so poorly veiled allegory that you don't deserve to be published.  Because you see that is TOTALLY what I want to read in my high fantasy, how like Marx was totally the devil who wanted to have sex with EVERYTHING and felt NOTHING (because that is NOTHING AT ALL LIKE RICHARD because Richard doesn't WANT to have sex with everything, he just does and deals with the tragic hardships).

Edit - Fixed up some typos and think this needed some context for people not aware of how badly this is handled.  The NOT JOHN GALT main character gets kidnapped and take to NOT COMMUNIST country where people have their assigned job and no one is allowed to do anyone elses job because the government says so, so helping an old lady who is an apple cart loader to load the cart full of apples that NOT JOHN GALT does shocks and makes people worry for his safety (this is not an exact scene, I haven't read the book for the better half of a decade also note that THIS IS NOT HOW COMMUNISM FUCKING WORKS).  Then NOT JOHN GALT makes an amazing stunning stand against NOT THE MAN by carving an idealised half naked statue of himself and his wife (Rape victim who he had to have sex with while she was on the rag to enter a temple where he could learn all of everything ever and then forget it for some fucking reason in a previous book) and the power of their love (SHE ISN'T EVEN IN THE COUNTRY, THIS IS ALL JUST A STATUE) convinces the people that LOVE IS THE WAY and to abandon all Communist notions and that it is alright to help your neighbour, but to not help your neighbour to much or they will be to weak to look out for themselves (So presumably you should be charging for it and then raping them because this is Randian bullshit).  All this presumably leads on to the seeds of a revolution against the all powerful NOT STALIN who is IMMUNE TO MAGIC BECAUSE HE BELIEVES NOTHING who can KILL PEOPLE IN THEIR DREAMS.  But you see the book ends after he unveils the statue and shows everyone the POWER OF LOVE AND FREEDOM AND NAKEDNESS.

Seriously, whenever I talk about the series I start off going to be reasonable and then just degenerate into rage and swearing.  Fuck these books.  Go read some Weiss and Hickman instead.  Dark Sword Trilogy is more nuanced than that shit.

Edit - Having talked more about the books I have to reiterate FUCK THESE BOOKS.  SO FUCKING MUCH.

Edit 2 - To go into FURTHER detail though, this all tails on after a book where we watched the main characters firebomb and invade another country because they were intending to be neutral in a war between the Main Characters perfect country of Dominatrix Soldiers and the EVIL COMMUNIST EMPIRE.  The country is lead by the Heroines cousin.  Because if NOT SWITZERLAND isn't with Dominatrix Land then they are against them.  Ignore that this is a small country that can contribute almost nothing to the cause, they didn't side with the psychotic heroes and therefore deserved to be firebombed into oblivion.  Oh yeah and all this is perpetuated by the Heroine, the main character is off (once again) having a crisis of conscience but once again has it reinforced that WHATEVER HE THINKS IS RIGHT AND JUST and that everyone else is evil by default.

FUCK. THESE. BOOKS.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 07, 2009, 06:44:15 PM
Reading Firebrand (Marion Zimmer Bradley) and Flatland now.

Flatland is not at all what I expected, but it's intriguing. But then, I like defamiliarization exercises, and this most definitely is one.

Firebrand is one of my favorite books from when I was younger (12-14, I think, is when I first read it). I do like MZB*, but the heavy-handedness of the feminism is sometimes a bit much for me. I actually read this far before becoming acquainted with the Aeneid, etc., so I was rather confused about how events actually played out once I got to the "real" version of the fall of Troy. I still mentally default to Firebrand's version.

I also have Mists of Avalon, The Forest House and Lady of Avalon which I will probably get to soon.

I have Green Rider (Kristen Britain) and will be reading up to High King's Tomb. I read the first two when they were new and just sort of forgot when the new one came out.

Also have Siddhartha in a feeble effort to get back to reading what English majors are supposed to be reading. I figured I'd start by going with something a little more my speed, and "spiritual journey" kind of obviously fits the theme there.

*In aside: she died about two weeks after I told my friends this. Douglas Adams similarly died about a month after I decided he was one of my favorites. This is why Neil Gaiman is my favorite author but I'm very careful about it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on December 07, 2009, 09:15:59 PM
Siddhartha? Man, Ash, if you're going to read Hermann Hesse, I'd recommend you just go to either Der Steppenwolfe or Demian. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on December 07, 2009, 09:37:34 PM
Seconded. I liked Demian.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 02, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Fairie Tale by Raymond Feist- Flipped through it again today after reading it as a child. Pretty screwed up stuff on the whole but was a fascinating read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 04, 2010, 07:15:27 PM
Finished Firebrand, Flatland and Mists of Avalon. I think I read another book in there somewhere, but it was (obviously) filler and I can't remember what it was.

Am currently reading and re-reading a self-help book. I am not usually the nonfiction type, but I am a huge sucker for pretty speeches and inspirational mumbo jumbo -- hence this book. It has some methods and ideas that really resonate with me, so I'm going to send my idealistic self on a metaphoric journey and see where it takes me.

On the fiction front, I'm going to end up with more classics. Maybe I will hit Siddhartha, but I also have a few other things I've been meaning to read that I found lurking on my shelves, so we'll see.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on January 04, 2010, 08:34:06 PM
Demian/Der Steppenwolfe first if you're hitting Hermann Hesse is a better bet. But I already said that. That and it's quite possible you don't have those other books.  >_> <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on January 04, 2010, 08:37:59 PM
...heeeee, flatland. Such a misogynistic work it's almost ludicrously funny, though I confess I like the phallic inversion that occurs there.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 04, 2010, 09:59:44 PM
I own neither Demian nor Steppenwolfe. I might pick them up, but I really need to go through the crap I have ALREADY that I haven't read. There's some interesting and off the wall stuff I've collected over the years and haven't yet read.

Flatland was horrifically misogynistic, an ironic point. I need to keep reminding myself that it was written in 1884. It was interesting. I like defamiliarization exercises, and boy was this a doozy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on January 04, 2010, 10:05:16 PM
Yeah. Very interesting, at the same time as being very, very much a product of its times.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 05, 2010, 08:29:38 AM
Snow suggesting Hesse, let me try and contain my shock.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on January 05, 2010, 01:48:31 PM
Snow suggesting Hesse, let me try and contain my shock.

She expressed interest in Hesse first. I'm just trying to steer her differently within that. But that's mostly because Siddharta didn't impress me a ton.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 05, 2010, 09:45:34 PM
Eh, just may as well listen to some Grateful Dead while reading Hesse or something.  Is just very sterotypical (Bonus points for the Ashley being in California).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on January 05, 2010, 09:46:30 PM
Not disputing that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 05, 2010, 10:19:20 PM
I also happen to live in the Bay Area, which is about as "California" as you can get (unless you're going for the beach stereotype). Does it help or hurt the image that I just graduated from the Seat of the Civil Rights and Creative Substance Use college? Might have been better if I'd had this thought last year. >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 18, 2010, 02:17:49 AM
Mistborn - Finally finished this and it is indeed totally worth reading.  Sanderson definitely does come from the Jordan school of writing (Not that he hides this), this means short abrupt ending.  Seriously like 40 pages from the end I think it was before one of (many) twists I was suspecting I was about to be totally cock blocked and have the book be nothing but a strung out series thing.  Thankfully not, but I was worried in a justified way because as I say, he comes from the Jordan school of writing.  The climax is right at the end of the book, this does make for an explosive ending, but it does mean the shift in gears when you have 30 pages left to resolve everything is really jarring and it tempts me to resent the rest of the book taking that long, but yes the pay off is there (this time, occasionally you are bound to get a Path of Daggers) and while effective I still question whether the choice to save up all those climaxes at once is worth it.  It is like Tantric Prose or something.  It is fine when your author is delivering but when they don't the whole thing kind of spirals out into ASoIaF territory (Decided not to touch any more of that stuff past Game of Thrones until it is finished).

I don't see the Lord Ruler hype, the title still sounds like The Blackboard Monitor, the character is just kind of there.  Going for the Emperor Palpatine thing but he just has no presence whatsoever when he isn't there (fitting and accurate extrapolation of the tendencies of real world Dictatorships however), the book really does play out far more like Book 1 of the Farseer Trilogy without having the ever pervasive villain that is Regal to just fuck everything up for the main character and really give you a strong antagonist.  The twist with Lord Ruler was dangled in front of your face for about half the book and it is pretty much the last of the plot twists resolved and yet from all the things at the climax is pretty much the first one introduced.  Sure there is points here and there that make you second guess it (in the flavour text at the start of chapters at that), but meh, still not much of a payoff for it.

But yeah everything else said about the book?  Pretty spot on.  Characterisation is not Hobb level, but generally speaking it is higher quality than Robert Jordan did, very good world building and an interesting different application of magic.  Well worth reading when you are after some slightly stronger than generic pulp fantasy.

Edit - To clarify this was book 1 of the series only.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 19, 2010, 05:06:07 PM
I think the greater Lord Ruler hype comes from later books when you start to learn what he did and why he did it and there is more to him than "evil dictator" (not that there is anything wrong with a book having an evil dictator character, reasonable enough real villain there). I'm not really on board the hype train though so someone else may have to weigh in. Then again maybe we should probably avoid weighing in until you've finished the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 19, 2010, 09:50:09 PM
It is implied that he was doing something more to protect the world.  I still fail to care.  Even then it isn't really anything amazingly unpredictable or shocking.  It is all incredibly human which is the whole point of the book, at the end of the day he was a human that was a dick but he most certainly wasn't what was first presented as.  The character can only be expanded on in a very small space fleshing out the implide back story and that is about it.  All I can do is yawn at that.  There are better more interesting characters in the books to fixate on.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 19, 2010, 10:06:52 PM
Pretty much, yes. Idly, which characters are you digging so far?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 20, 2010, 03:17:51 AM
I thought TLR made perfect sense in the context of the world, and worked for that. He had almost no screentime, but the book still builds a fairly complete picture of the character.

Rashek felt very competent. He is at the very end of his rope by the time the books roll around (His decision to give the Steel Inquisitors control over his priests is not a good one.), but he still is trying. It's cool how he builds up the impact immorality has on someone both good and bad, to the point where he is so powerful that even the good guys wonder at times if he really does deserve to rule.

He and Kelsier are pretty much opposite sides of the same coin. Both are selfish men who give up their lives to save the people in their own way. It's a little distasteful how much the books end up forgiving a thousand years of brutal tyranny, but it also builds a world setting where said tyranny makes sense. It's all pretty cool.

It also helps that he is bouncing off Kelsier, who is probably the most memorable character in the series.


He doesn't really get a lot of screentime, but he works very well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 20, 2010, 03:30:47 AM
The obvious ones, Vin and Kelsier are both shades of other characters I like with Fitz and the Fool from Hobb's work, bits of Matt in here and there, Silk from Eddings' works.  Most of the others really needed more screen time to take centre stage for characters I would say I am digging, but none of them were bad and they were all a pleasure to read when they were there really.  Marsh and Dockson are probably the ones I wished had more.  Dockson just to see how a Plantation slave managed to get so far with so little and Marsh to know exactly what can break a man so much that he is willing to go from the leader of a resistance to while not a collaborator but one who doesn't want to fight anymore.

Edit - Lord Ruler certainly did work for the setting, but so do a lot of villains.  I think you are being overly enamored with the character because of the setting.  The setting is good fun, but the character himself isn't amazing.  There is plenty of villains that fit their setting and go above and beyond.  I am really going to hype Prince Regal here again as a character that just completely and totally crushes him.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 02, 2010, 03:21:02 PM
Book 2 and 3 rereads done. Book 2 is good but dragged some this time, probably since I'm impatient to get to the main story. Nothing really changed as far as character/scene worth goes.


Book 3 is 80% setup. Some of it needed to be done, but the beginning and the White Tower stuff with the girls just drags outside of Mat being healed and Egwene's trip through the rings.  The ending of the book is fantastic, as is Be'lal getting owned like the loser he is.


Weirdness I found in the book: Rhuarc more or less borrowed a quote Rahvin said ("I hope to see you before the change comes vs see the world before it changes"). Maybe it just refers to Rand, but that was an odd line. We'll probably see at least one big Aiel Darkfriend somewhere in the books. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on February 06, 2010, 09:38:22 PM
Started reading Twilight.

After the first chapter I had pretty much concluded that I liked her writing style, and liked it enough that I'd probably enjoy the rest of the book even if it was about moss growth cycles.  So far, I was right: extremely entertaining.




Have to agree with QR's warning, though: Bella is a dumbass

Bella: "I'm fairly positive my boyfriend is a vampire.  He didn't turn down my invitation to the beach until he heard it was in a spot that Jacob later told me Vampires couldn't visit, and he sometimes speaks with unfamiliar cadences and phrases that would better fit a turn-of-the-century novel."  (Two observations I hadn't even noticed; I guess she's allowed to have momentary flashes of intelligence)
Bella: "Even if he is, fuck it I still like him."
*next morning*
Bella: "OOOOH Sunshine!  Sunny! Sunny! Sunny!"
Bella: "Wait, why isn't my Vampire boyfriend at school today?  I want to enjoy the sunshine with him!"
Bella: "I can't think of a single reason why my vampire boyfriend wouldn't be here unless he doesn't love me.  I AM FEELING REJECTED AND IT IS RUINING MY SUNSHINE MOOD."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on February 09, 2010, 10:12:35 PM
Took a short break from books. Didn't plan it, but I just hadn't felt like reading. Whatever.

Picked up again last week.

I read:
Hominids by Robert J. Sawyer
Old Man's War by John Scalzi
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazney

Am reading:
Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse

Hominids is sold in the science fiction/fantasy category, but I don't know why. You see, I've read a few romances -- mainly the extremely corny bad fantasy kinds, like my favorite about the Viking who is sent into the future by a randy she-whale and falls in love with a veterinarian -- and THIS is a romance. It's a romance about a parallel-dimension Neaderthal, but that really doesn't stop it from being what it is. You see, the female lead gets raped early on in the story, and she comes to terms with trusting men because the male lead is just so male and yet his misplacement in this world makes him so uncomfortable and his parallel-Earth society makes men so sensitive that they just cry at the beauty of the world! Man. But whatever, it has SCIENCE (of an admittedly dubious fashion) and, also, a series. Amusing, and I normally love Sawyer's stuff, but this was a little much.

Old Man's War I picked up because a) I have been reading "Whatever," Scalzi's blog; b) the Barnes and Noble by me was closing and this was on the shelf. Aside from being ridiculously prurient at times, and also dispensing with the need to give the characters more to say than "Fuck!" when surprised/angry/whatever, it was pretty decent. An interesting concept and an interesting character. If you like Asprin's Phule series, you'd probably like this. It is also a series, and I may pick up the sequels.

Lord of Light is kind of an interesting way to segue into reading Siddhartha. You see, the Lord of Light? A character who is also known as Siddhartha, Buddha, a handful of other names, and Sam. I think this one might be most interesting after I finish reading Siddhartha because it is at once an exploration of religion and man's adaptation to it as it is also a war/fantasy/SF type story. I love Zelazney -- the Amber series was one of my first favorites -- and this is very Zelazney.

Looking into what I might pick up next, but I think I still need to work through the backlog on my shelves. It may be time to sell a few books to the used bookstore to feed my habit.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on February 11, 2010, 01:11:28 AM
Michel Foucault - The Order Of Things: An Archeology of Human Sciences

/me reads the first chapter.

...
...
...

HOLY SHIT.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on February 11, 2010, 01:38:15 AM
Hm?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 11, 2010, 08:45:00 AM
There is three normal reactions to Foucault.

Holy what the fuck is he doing with this language.  Foucault has a tendency to invent works where he needed to, these words made sense, but reading whole sentences can take a lot of effort.

Holy what the fuck is this guy saying.  Foucault is difficult and sometimes tends to need a good background in what he is talking about to get what he is on about, there is a reason he is slowly introduced towards the end of first year courses if at all when his work is going to be covered indepth.

Holy what the fuck this is some of the best shit I have ever read.  Because Foucault is that damned good.

I am betting on option 3.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on February 11, 2010, 08:42:31 PM
There is three normal reactions to Foucault.
(...)
Holy what the fuck this is some of the best shit I have ever read.  Because Foucault is that damned good.

Fucking word. He got me sold on the mind-bending analysis of a Velasquez painting in the first twenty pages.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Otter on February 11, 2010, 10:01:33 PM
Foucault is that damned good.

Sartre, Camus, and Foucault are the three most urgent reasons to learn French, I think.  Les Mots et les choses is one of those books you read in translation that make you start working harder in class just so you can read the original sooner.  Basically listen to Grefter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 12, 2010, 12:06:39 PM
If you are going to go learn French and be able to read the originals then you owe it to yourself to read some of his Lectures.  They are notorious for getting average students amazing marks when they were being knocked off just after his death when they were not so widely known.  Apparently they are just amazing reads and the university he taught at in France kept trancripts of a great number of them.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on February 12, 2010, 11:25:02 PM
Some of his lectures are translated into English, too.  The Order of Discourse was a pretty interesting read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 22, 2010, 08:00:12 AM
Hocus Pocus - You know what?  I give up on trying to work out which of Vonnegut's books is the best and just say he hasn't written anything yet that I have not felt amazingly positive towards.  This is a book written by a WW2 veteran about the Vietnam War and how human the whole damned thing is.  At the end of the day, tragically unrelentingly human.  He makes me so angry about some of the small bullshit injustices he writes about and then goes "Meh is all human yes yes?" and his characters tend to reach that point as well.  A wonderful reminder of that whole human condition thing that almost reminds me why I studied Psychology in the first place.  Instead of just reminding me how fucked up humanity is it reminds me why humanity is so fucked up.

These are all very positive emotions for me.  Powerful work as always tweaks your around from vindicative anger to ennui and ending the whole thing in a bitter sweet little positive note essentially about how everyone is going to die (not nearly as literally this time).  I really suck at explaining how that is a positive message, but yeah especially in this book that quote about how he coats a sugary pill in bitter sweet cynicism or whatever really applies.

He tells you the cold hard ugly bitter truth about human brutality and the reminds you how great it is when people hug.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 27, 2010, 05:01:44 PM
Finished up path of daggers in my WoT reread.  He splits things up too much. Even the best PoV in the books (Egwene) suffers some from all the minor characters that get screentime.

Oh. Sanderson's spoiler about 'big thing the WoT fans missed'- Rand started hearing voices after entering the world of dreams in the flesh. Lews Therin's voice appears in book 4 first, right after he fightins Ishamael in the stone of tear.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Feldschlacht IV on February 27, 2010, 05:16:44 PM
I don't read as much as I should, but I did manage to read through Mass Effect: Revelations. Fastest I've ever read a book, Mass Effect is just that interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on February 28, 2010, 11:54:52 PM
Is that the one with Saren and Anderson?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on March 02, 2010, 04:41:51 AM
Mistborn Trilogy:  Read it, loved it.  Sanderson is the king of action scenes.  You can vividly see every coin being pushed and cane being swung in your mind.  Loved the small blurbs before each Chapter, and how you don't realize who's making them until the end.  Loved how everything was connected together.  Loved TenSoon.

Hated Spook.  God what a terrible character.  From the faux-Cockney slang that noone else in the series uses, to going Super Saiyan in book 3, he was just horrible.  Also didn't care for the political intrigue in book 2, but that was just dull rather than bad.

Edit:  Loved Yomen too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: BaconForTheSoul on March 02, 2010, 04:06:56 PM
Finished Bite by Richard Laymon.  Not even close to being his best work.  I'll give Laymon credit for making a 100 page car ride interesting... but this is definitely one of his bottom 5 IMO.  Also, it's the last book of his that I had yet to read so sadly... no more Laymon for me.

A Lonesome Night in October will definitely go down as the best book he wrote.  A car ride for 100 pages isn't that exciting, but taking a walk through a completely fucked up town definitely was.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on March 04, 2010, 01:17:00 AM
The Uncommon Reader -- Fun 100 page book that starts out very simple, and takes some serious twists.

The Greatest Show on Earth -- A non-fiction book by Richard Dawkins about the evidence for evolution.  Some of it is stuff that's been brought up before in internet debates, but some of it was new stuff to me.  Stuff like some of the ways evolution could be disproven, and hasn't (like a rabbit in the precambrian layer, flowers that predict certain insects must exist to pollinate them).  Some interesting studies on bacteria that have been going on since the 80s, and thus have something on the order of 45,000 generations, including a mutation where the first part of the mutation had no particular benefit (only showed up in one of the 12 strains).  Something that I probably already knew if I thought about it enough is that we have enough evidence for evolution even if we had never found a single fossil; fossil evidence, while substantial, is still nowhere near as massive as evidence from currently living creatures.
Another one that's new to me was his presenting a great deal of evidence against Intelligent Design--like nerves that go toward the thyroid, one of which goes directly, and one of which goes all the way down the neck, loops around a blood vessel, and comes back up the neck.  Incredibly stupid as a design, but if you look at the equivalent nerves and organs in, say, a Shark, they're all very direct, they just cross over, which means when the organs in land animals moved to make a neck, one nerve was still crossed around a heart valve.  And on the extreme end of the spectrum, in the Gyraffe, the same nerve passes within centimeters of its target, but instead takes a 15 foot detour into the abdomen.  Or another fun one is why do Dolphins not have gills--like all mammal embryos they grow gills briefly in early development; wouldn't an intelligent creator think "hey, these are sea creatures, maybe they can use these gills" instead of nixing the gills, growing lungs, growing two nostrils and merging them into one, moving it on top of the head, and adding a blowhole cover skin flap.
Of course, philosophically-speaking you can't rule out "God is trying to fool us."  In fact, philosophically speaking, God could have made the world 5 minutes ago with holes in our socks and hair that needs cutting deliberately to fool us into thinking the world has existed for much longer.  The author argues that in order for evolution not to be true, we would need this level of intentional divine trickery.

Twilight: There's some vomit-inducing soft-porn in the middle, and some facepalm moments of stupidity from main characters, but in general this is a very fun book.  The climax is pretty good.  Also, I really want Bella to shack up with Alice.  Besides the obvious "as long as it's not Edward" and "eww, heterosexual soft porn", Alice is just awesome, and already unusually intimate with Bella (definitely seems like she sees Bella naked before any of the other potential suiters).

Twilight 2 (New Moon): So...it's repeatedly beat into you "this book is riffing off of Romeo and Juliet."  Pre-trans Jacob is a lot of fun.  Hearing voices Bella is...an improvement on the old character, for all that she's probably more stupid.  Post-trans Jacob is kinda lame, for all that there's flickers of the non-lame character.  Bella and Edward pull a Romeo and Juliet, except tragically neither of them die :(.  Alice is awesome; she also still needs to shack up with Bella.  The Volturi have style.

Twilight 3 (Eclipse): Answers an important question.  Namely "so uhh...if the second largest vampire coven in the world has 6 members, aren't there some pretty easy ways around that if you want to crush them?"  Some fun development of side characters like Rosalie and Jasper (who were previously not well-explained).  Other than that, just closes the obvious plot threads, like "where's Victoria?" and "We're neighbours and want the same thing, but can't work together because we are MORTAL ENEMIES."



I'll have to borrow Twilight 4 from someone sometime.  These are entertaining enough that I'd like to continue, but at the same time I don't have enough respect for the works to give the author more money, and can't imagine I'm going to reread these books.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on March 04, 2010, 02:31:59 AM
Dawkins was on Fox News, of all places, talking about evolution. Crafty move on Fox's part, since Dawkins is so incredibly condescending that using him to represent everyone on one side of a debate makes people extremely unsympathetic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on March 04, 2010, 02:45:11 AM
Twilight: There's some vomit-inducing soft-porn in the middle, and some facepalm moments of stupidity from main characters, but in general this is a very fun book.  The climax is pretty good.  Also, I really want Bella to shack up with Alice.  Besides the obvious "as long as it's not Edward" and "eww, heterosexual soft porn", Alice is just awesome, and already unusually intimate with Bella (definitely seems like she sees Bella naked before any of the other potential suiters).

I think there are many pages in TV Tropes dedicated to Bella/Alice, one of them conspicuously being "Relationship Writing Fumble".
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 04, 2010, 02:58:04 AM
Crafty move on Fox's part, since Dawkins is so incredibly condescending that using him to represent everyone on one side of a debate makes people extremely unsympathetic.

I wouldn't read that much into it, unless you think they give Ann Coulter airtime because they hate conservatism.  TV likes sensationalism, and he's sensational (in the bad way). 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on March 04, 2010, 03:14:44 AM
Crafty move on Fox's part, since Dawkins is so incredibly condescending that using him to represent everyone on one side of a debate makes people extremely unsympathetic.

I wouldn't read that much into it, unless you think they give Ann Coulter airtime because they hate conservatism.  TV likes sensationalism, and he's sensational (in the bad way). 

In fairness to him, he kinda tells it like it is.  Yeah, you could be less confrontational if you said "well, there are valid arguments for your viewpoint."  But the problem is that there aren't, and he really can't concede that point since if Intelligent Design was a valid scientific viewpoint, then he wouldn't have an argument for why it isn't being taught in schools.  Someone who declares "your viewpoint is invalid" is going to come across as condescending.

Now, granted, they probably could pick an ambassador that wouldn't rub people the wrong way (say, someone who believes in god unlike Dawkins; the Pope has accepted evolutionary theory, it shouldn't be that hard).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 04, 2010, 03:28:56 AM
Dawkins' problem isn't that he sounds condescending, it's that he IS condescending, and more to the point he relies on faulty logic.

His argument for the nonexistence of God: "Our brains trick us into thinking there is a God, therefore there isn't one."

If all he's saying about intelligent design is "your viewpoint is invalid and it shouldn't be taught in schools," it's an empty conclusion.  He's worthless, even if he's right.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on March 04, 2010, 03:57:43 AM
Crafty move on Fox's part, since Dawkins is so incredibly condescending that using him to represent everyone on one side of a debate makes people extremely unsympathetic.

I wouldn't read that much into it, unless you think they give Ann Coulter airtime because they hate conservatism.  TV likes sensationalism, and he's sensational (in the bad way).  

In fairness to him, he kinda tells it like it is.  Yeah, you could be less confrontational if you said "well, there are valid arguments for your viewpoint."  But the problem is that there aren't, and he really can't concede that point since if Intelligent Design was a valid scientific viewpoint, then he wouldn't have an argument for why it isn't being taught in schools.  Someone who declares "your viewpoint is invalid" is going to come across as condescending.

Now, granted, they probably could pick an ambassador that wouldn't rub people the wrong way (say, someone who believes in god unlike Dawkins; the Pope has accepted evolutionary theory, it shouldn't be that hard).

It's not so much that he says there aren't valid SCIENTIFIC arguments for it as much as he says "there is no valid reason to believe this." That's where you start getting inflammatory, because hey, whatever thing people are using to sooth their fear of death is being called out and they get angry.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 04, 2010, 04:42:06 PM
Eh, as a former Dawkins fanboy, the logic goes like this:  There's no RATIONAL reason to believe in the divine, ergo there is no valid reason to believe in the divine, ergo there's no reason to respect that belief.  At some level I still agree wholeheartedly with this, but this point of view falls into the same trap everything in game theory does:  It really only clicks when human are 100% rational.  That just isn't ever so, and so while his little anti-religion crusade is a breath of fresh air (particularly in this country where religious groups have more sway with the government than in, say, England), it's ultimately doomed to failure.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 05, 2010, 01:29:11 AM
There's no RATIONAL reason to believe in the divine, ergo there is no valid reason to believe in the divine, ergo there's no reason to respect that belief.

No matter how much you dress it up, the foundation of this argument is the fallacy that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.  At the end of the day, Dawkins substitutes volume for content, and that puts him in the same place as the people he scorns.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 05, 2010, 02:06:43 AM
Eh, he's too sure of his position by far, but shit, dude, are you really saying that it's not the more likely scenario in the face of the evidence we do have?  The argument from ignorance fallacy gets abused way more when trying to argue for the existence of god than against. 

His prosthelytizing is extremely obnoxious, sure, but only because people should be allowed to believe whatever stupid shit they believe and then leave each other alone.  It makes him little better than missionaries or preachers who use their religion as a political tool to force everyone to agree with them.  But if you're saying the position of atheism (or, more properly, agnosticism with a bias toward atheism) is based on faulty logic to the same degree that any religious viewpoint is... some pretty damn tortured logic in itself.

I... had a few more paragraphs, but I'm not sure if I'd be needlessly ranting or not.  We'll see.

EDIT:  tl;dr version of what I had ranted about:  You don't NEED evidence of absence because absence is the logical default conclusion in the absence of evidence.  Burden of proof is on the people making positive assertions in an argument.  Pink elephants in the room etc.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 05, 2010, 02:18:55 AM
But if you're saying the position of atheism (or, more properly, agnosticism with a bias toward atheism) is based on faulty logic just to the same degree any religious viewpoint   is some pretty damn tortured logic in itself.

I'm not saying that.  I agree that probability is on the side of atheism, but in order for someone to be as big a dick as Dawkins is and be ok in my book, probably right doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 05, 2010, 03:44:43 AM
See, I knew I didn't need to rant as much as I had.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 05, 2010, 04:52:14 PM
My problem with Dawkins is that he's on the side of SCIENCE! and then acts like he can prove a negative.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Strago on March 11, 2010, 12:55:35 AM
Just finished the first Mistborn. Good book. Looking forward to the next two, which I picked up earlier this evening.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on March 11, 2010, 03:42:31 AM
Just finished the first three books in the X-Wing Star Wars series.  Enjoyable, but really, really fluff.  Not a whole lot to say about them, except pertaining their twists.

SPOILERS I guess

Personally I felt they waited entirely too long to reveal the hidden agent in the squadron.  It was obvious to me...somewhere around the end of the first book to the middle of the second.  In the second they planted all sorts of false trails to another suspect...and also had the real traitor make just enough seemingly innocent but oddly suspicious moves.  It made sense to reveal things at the end of that book.  But no, they reveal things at the end of the third book, during which the traitor gets very little screentime.  It just...feels oddly delayed, like the author wants to mess with readerly instinct by making the readers think they were wrong for an extra book.

The location of Isard's prison...well I figured it out a couple chapters before it was revealed, but they were obviously dropping hints by now; good twist.  And...not surprised about the "OMG you're a Jedi" twist from the character who kept having ridiculous insights.

SPOILERS above
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 11, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
It's something Stackpole does very well. Enjoyable fluff. Case in point: his Battletech novels.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on March 11, 2010, 06:41:34 AM
I happen to prefer Allston's X-Wing novels. But I also consider the first three X-Wing novels to be kind of the low point of X-Wing related stuff. Not as good as the comic, not as good as the fourth book, and no way in hell are they as good as the Allston books.

If you can get past how Stackpole writes dialogue, though, they're not bad. But the comics are still his better work because of two reasons: less dialogue and the Wedge Antilles-Soontir Fel teamup. "CAUSE WE'RE BROTHERS!!!!"
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on March 17, 2010, 11:02:36 AM
Soon I Will Be Invincible by Austin Grossman.

Excellent read. Only book quite like it I have ever read. I'm shocked at how much I identify with one of the two main characters (the super villain).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 17, 2010, 02:16:31 PM
If you can get past how Stackpole writes dialogue, though, they're not bad. But the comics are still his better work because of two reasons: less dialogue and the Wedge Antilles-Soontir Fel teamup. "CAUSE WE'RE BROTHERS!!!!"

Agreed, the exchanges can be good though. He's good at structuring conversations, but the dialogue itself is usually kinda of stiff and wooden.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 12, 2010, 04:23:01 AM
Phonogram: The Singles - This is a comic book about pop art and it is fucking awesome and win.  Snow, you have to get this one.  Issue 4 is grandiose and fantastic, but I am thinking of taking an image from chapter 6 where a guy sets his manifesto on fire with the power of music.  This is rad.  Music is Magic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 09, 2010, 06:25:56 AM
Dresden Files.

Let's see, over the past... two weeks? -- maybe a little less than that -- I read the Dresden Files from book 4, on.

The first few there (4, 5, and 6) had me wincing and wondering if this was going to have to be one of those series I abandoned part of the way through. I kept going, though, only partially because I simply needed a book to read, and I'm kind of glad I did.

They are pretty empty books, overall, written by a man who very clearly chose to write because he felt driven to be a writer, not because he was divinely inspired to express his art through the written word. They are fine, and get the job done -- they tell a story -- but the thing that makes them interesting is the characters, and by deity I will always come back to a book with characters I enjoy reading about. I will concede that even the characters have their moments, but nevertheless: enjoyable ride.

But goddamnit all if it doesn't succumb to the most ridiculously obvious post-marking I've ever seen. I can expect to see these things in every book, and if I don't, I know they'll be there later. The pub, his "Neanderthalish" protective instinct over women, the shield charm, the soul gaze, his orphan heritage, "Murphy is good people" ... it really wears down on a reader!

But, whatever. Enjoyable. Thankfully(?) it has been noted that Mr. Butcher plans to have at least 20 novels in this series. This one I just finished, the one released just last month, is #12. Whoopee for another decade of reading! Assuming he doesn't pull a Robert Jordan, anyway. I shudder to think of what would happen if his closest match -- Laurell K. Harding -- took up the mantle. Already had a few brushes with supernatural romance in those early books.

... yeah, that was a bit rambly, wasn't it? Spent the past, oh, 10 or so hours reading.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on May 11, 2010, 02:32:10 AM
So...went to the book store and bought six vampire-related books; the first four books in the Vampire Chronicles (only just starting with those) a book of mixed vampire short stories and, the first of the list I've finished...

Breaking Dawn

(A.k.a.: the fourth Twilight book...which doesn't have twilight in the title for whatever reason).

(SPOILER-FREE -- there are no spoilers in this review)

I went into this partially spoiled by the internet--I'd read the first few books, and thus wouldn't completely ignore internet discussions on the series; and...the average GameFAQs user seems to derive their knowledge of twilight either from hearing other people say "OMG THEY SPARKLE LAME"...or from that comic that summarizes the fourth book's whacky plot...so I was partially spoiled by people's offhand comments about the comic.  So anyway, I read it and...

Oh...

Oh my god...

That...

That was...

Fantastic.

I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.



With an introduction like that, I'm sure some of you are jumping to the conclusion that I was laughing at how stupid the plot was.  Actually no, for the most part I was laughing at the clever one-liners.  Hell, there's a significant section of the book where several characters band together for the shared goal of telling dumb blonde jokes.

If anything, it's made me re-evaluate the whole series in a more positive light.  The series has always had some pretty-good one-liners scattered throughout, but I had always chalked that up to characterization--I mean, it's supposed to be a romance novel, right?  And a sense of humor is attractive and thus serves the romance novel goal; therefore clearly we shouldn't be praising this too much because of the inglorious purpose of the humor.  Looking back, I see that I had it wrong--the Twilight books were meant to be funny, probably moreso than they were meant to be romantic.  To call Twilight a serious romance novel would be like calling Harry Potter a serious Wicca novel.

And in that light, I'm really finding my respect for Twilight criticism dwindling.  Responding to Twilight with "VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE.  THEY HAVE FANGS.  AND COFFINS." is like responding to Harry Potter with "WITCHES DON'T HAVE CHOCOLATE FROG CARDS.  THEY HAVE BLOOD RITUALS.  AND WARTS."  Not that there aren't legitimate complaints about Twilight, don't get me wrong, but being sacrilegious towards the mythology seems like a comical complaint the more I think about it.  Very few vampire myths are externally consistent (how many really match Brahm Stoker's Dracula?  Where Dracula can go out in the sun with no apparent consequences?  I can't think of any).  The goal, then, should be internal consistency.

Which brings us back to the review of Breaking Dawn: I was surprised by how internally consistent it was.  I mean, a lot of series have a moment where an intelligent reader will think "man, if that's how this universe works, why don't they just go back in time and kill the Evil Lord before he takes over?  Geez."  I don't recall a single moment like that in Breaking Dawn, but I do recall several moments where I thought "Oh, wow, that was really smart, and a rather clever use of what we already know."  I mean, I guess you could argue that it wasn't realistic in that there was too much cleverness.  But...frankly, I'm not worried about Twilight characters lacking flaws on the whole--it would be hard to read the whole series and not facepalm a few times.

Speaking of, I was surprised how basically every obnoxious character that had me thinking "why does this character exist?" actually ended up being an important piece of the final puzzle.  (Well...okay, not counting a few normal humans, but that's the life being left behind).  I'm further surprised at how essentially every loose end gets picked up (if not necessarily completed entirely) without any real Deus-Ex Machina.  (There's one new mechanic, but it's actually more of a biological corollary to older mechanics).  Surprised because once again I made assumptions based on the internet--you see, the internet talks about how horrible she is at writing, so I had just assumed that the series wouldn't be at all planned out (the way, say, Star Wars or Harry Potter have obvious little planning holes).  However, I really can't see how Breaking Dawn would be possible if Twilight were not planned.  (Not that novel planning is the be-all-end-all of writing; the Harry Potter series is still in competition for best series I've read.  Just...not what I'd expected from the supposed "bad writer").

All in all, Breaking Dawn really brings the series together for me.  I'm not sure yet if I consider it the best book in the series (I might, but now that my perspective's changed on the series...maybe the earlier books have gotten better).  But either way, I'm definitely glad I read it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on May 11, 2010, 09:31:21 AM
Being planned != Good writing.  The latter implies the former, but the former doesn't indicate the latter to any real degree.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 11, 2010, 10:22:22 AM
Errr did the book help the parts from previous novels where Bella was apparently an insufferable bitch?  Cause that would be amazing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on May 11, 2010, 05:04:22 PM
Being planned != Good writing.

Yeah that's...pretty much what I said. >_>

Errr did the book help the parts from previous novels where Bella was apparently an insufferable bitch?  Cause that would be amazing.

No, I don't think there's any redeeming Book 2 Bella.  (Or Bella's more minor facepalm moments either).  Nor do I expect any redeeming of Edward--if anything my opinion on him may have lowered a little.

Spoilers, though not too major: Bella actually becomes a vampire (thank God, I was seriously starting to worry this wasn't going to happen) which...changes a lot of dynamics including the fact that her human memories fade.  It's hard to consider this a redemption of the character when it's supernatural intervention into personality.  And the part of the book where she's human she's...consistent with earlier books...just not actually a perspective character during the eyeroll moments.  So...yeah, I don't see it making her look any better.  Edward, on the other hand, continues his "I'm terrified of hurting you" even when she's a more powerful vampire than he is, and she's the one who needs to be careful about ripping his head off.  The power dynamic reversal is actually pretty cool, Edward's continued chivalry is just facepalmworthy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 12, 2010, 11:35:49 AM
Just quietly, that is the point of chivalry, it is to be that way even when it isn't necessary (with a stronger point of view takes that to mean even when it is unwarranted). 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on May 16, 2010, 04:15:42 PM
Interview With the Vampire

***minor SPOILERS throughout***


So...the theme of this entire book seemed to be "Man, what's the point?" and towards the end it was more like "Man, what's the point? *slits wrists*"

Overall, I guess I don't really see the point of...much of the stuff in the book myself.  I have to admit that I lose patience with all the descriptions of New Orleans, all the descriptions of paintings.  Can't say I was fond of how it was deliberately not straightforward, either--the book will randomly detail on for paragraphs about these hallucinations, which ultimately seemed to be fairly meaningless.  All these passages that I don't care about kinda reminded me about the parts of Lord of the Rings that made me not keen on it ("I don't care about the forest.")

Rice's version of the Vampire myth is...weird right after reading Twilight.  He gets turned into a Vampire, and then goes right back to running the farm, instructing his sister, and drinks the blood of rats for years rather than humans.  The "moves too fast for the human eye" combat stuff, which was poorly done in Twilight, was somehow even more wishy-washy and vague in Interview.  And the coffins...just seemed a little ridiculous.  All these vampires in rooms with no windows who still feel a desperate need to crawl into coffins.  What did Vampires do before coffins existed, exactly?

Despite the flaws, I was still interested, though (you'll note it took me five days to read it, despite reading a book twice the length in one day...but I've done a lot worse than five days too).  I've also heard later books contradict stuff in Interview (which after all is only what Louis knows...and even then is only what Louis is willing to tell the interviewer).  Plus a different perspective might mean less prattling about paintings and architecture.  And a non-interview format will make quotation marks less of a mess.  So...I'm certainly not feeling deterred from continuing the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 16, 2010, 10:56:50 PM
Pretty much the book (and the whole series) is pretty much "Vampires are just people too!" So that ... pretty much covers the combat stuff, it is kept vague and wishy-washy to keep the feelings of humanity there.

Reading Interview works much better if you remember that this is a book about sexual predators.  So much of the book is STILL Lestat in an amazingly abusive relationship with Louis.  Louis is of course the complete and total submissive in this S&M filled relationship.  Also the stuff with the little girl is either a really effectively creepy inversion of the Pedophile/victim relationship with a whole truckload of Stockholm syndrome piled on or it is just another example of High School Crush being carried to the logical extreme (Also of note is little girl Dom takes on an elder lesbian Submissive and the Dom in the male/male relationship absolutely loses his shit).  The annoying components to read are largely a mish mash of Louis being an untrustworthy storyteller, him being a bit out of touch with the big picture and the fact that again, this is a book that is all about Vampires and how they used to be humans (so why should they do anything other than what they were doing before?). 

The constantly staring at pictures shit is all about infatuation, but Louis is very bad at this whole Vampire thing (and is the submissive), so he isn't really looking for other humans to engage him (and whenever they do it fails miserably, partly because Louis is BAD at this) but he needs some outlet.  So he turns out to be a total art fag.

If you move on to Vampire Lestat you get a more standard first person story telling perspective, a lot more obsession over people than objects and generally a lot more success at anything he undetakes, because Lestat is a bit of a Mary Sue.  You will also continue to have an untrustworthy narrator, because Lestat lies to everyone, himself included, and he is pretty much a creature of pure impulse and indulgence (Pretty much a pure hedonist).

You also get to laugh at the big climax of Interview where they chase off Lestat showing how it was much less a big dramatic fight for life and more of just a really messy break up.

I am going to continue to reccomend you watch the movie though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 16, 2010, 10:57:04 PM
Penultimate Wheel of Time book has a release date! October 26, 2010!

... time to start re-reading Wheel of Time again, maybe?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 16, 2010, 11:01:38 PM
Nah, that's just book 12. We have book 13 after that~!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 16, 2010, 11:04:01 PM
Now you know why I chose the word "penultimate."

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on May 17, 2010, 01:56:08 AM
I dunno, the whole annual release thing really makes me think Sanderson completely missed the point of the series.  I mean, heck, how many plot threads has he added?  NOT ENOUGH!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on May 17, 2010, 01:57:05 AM
Ooh, that's on my birthday.  That'll be a nice present.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 17, 2010, 07:29:43 PM
Welp. Foot in mouth syndrome go.

Also, Sanderson's releasing the way of kings later this year too. The man really is a freak of nature.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on May 17, 2010, 08:53:26 PM
Now you know why I chose the word "penultimate."
Now be quiet, Super, or I shall have to hurt you.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on May 24, 2010, 05:53:51 PM
The Vampire Lestat

I will now summarize this book

*SPOILERS*

Lestat: "I want to do something cool with my life, like learn to read or become an actor."
Father: "No."
Lestat: *cries*
Mother: *bribes Lestat*

Villagers: "Hey Lestat, the wolves are killing us.  You're the only competent noble, please help us."
Lestat: *kills wolves*
Dad: "I still don't love you."
Mom: "Lestat, I'm dieing.  I also feel guilty about keeping you here--I was selfish, but you're like...the only awesome person in this family.  As my dying wish, go get a life, and take that Nicholas dude with you."

Lestat: "Nicholas, your violin is divine."
Nicholas: "No, it is demonic!"
Lestat: "Divine!"
Nicholas: "Demoniiiiiiiic!  I am evil, evil evil!"

Magnus: "Surprise, Lestat, I'm making you a vampire because you're so totally HOT.  Oh, and I'm leaving you shitloads of money and committing suicide.  Bye now!"
Lestat: "Well, I guess I'll just tell my family and friends that I unexpectedly married rich, and bribe them with money."
Nicholas: "Eeeeeeeeviiiiiil.  I'm so eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiil.  I'm not sure what happened to Lestat, but I'm sure it's eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiil."

Mom: "Have you forgotten Lestat?  I'm not retarded and can read between the lines.  SURPRISE VISIT!"
Lestat: "Damn.  Well...wanna be a Vampire?"
Mom: "Sure!"
Gabrielle: "I am no longer Mom and now just Gabrielle.  Also my boobs just got bigger--so much for being trapped in whatever form your body held when you changed....  Oh well.  Hey Lestat, let's make out!"

Vampire Street Gang: "OMG, you walked into a church as a Vampire!  You're going to bring down holy judgement on us all!!"
Lestat: *sensually licks a cross* "Look ma, God hasn't struck me down!"
Vampire Street Gang: "Oh.  Cool then, let's disperse."
Armand: "What have you DONE???  How the hell will we pass the time without pointless satanic rituals?  Who will tell me exactly what to do and when?? *cries*"

Nicholas: "Eeeeeeviiiiil.  Hey Lestat, how could you become so eeeeeeeviiiiil and not share it with me?  That's not fair! I should be eeeeeeviiiiiil."
Gabrielle: "Don't, he's a loser EMO-goth, do you really want THAT to live forever."
Lestat: "But, but, I feel sorry for him!" *changes*
Gabrielle: "Idiot."

Nicholas: *EMOFailure*
Lestat: "Good God what have I done.  Umm...here's your violin?"
Nicholas: "Violin...yes, haha, let's put on Vampire plays!!!!"
Gabrielle: "I think that's as close as you will ever get to making his character not fail at life."

Armand: "No, seriously, Lestat, what the hell do I do now that I have no rituals?"
Lestat: "Umm...stop failing.  How did you end up like this?"
Armand: "Well I was raised for years by the smartest, most godless, well-educated, open-minded Vampire out there, but then some savages came and burned him and the house and forced me to join the cult AND NOW I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE.  I still dream about the old dude like he's alive, though."
Lestat: "Wow, really?  That was your upbringing and you're having trouble adjusting?  You fail more than I thought."

Gabrielle: "Unlike the 'moral vampires' Lestat and Louis, I live in the forest and drink the blood of animals."
Lestat: "Wow.  You're so..."
Gabrielle: "Also, I want to make a global organization of Vampires with the sole goal of destroying all human civilization."
Lestat: "WTF, why?"
Gabrielle: "That way there will be more forests with fluffy bunnies!  Everywhere!  Ahahahahahahaha!"

Armand: "I'm over 300 years old."
Marius: "I'm around 1700 years old."
Marius: *opens tabernacle* "THEY'RE OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAAND!!!"
Lestat: "WHAT?  Six THOUSAND?  There's no WAY that can be true!"

Marius: "Also, if you put them out in the sun, all other vampires will be burned because they share the original blood."
reader: "Wait, if sharing blood means sharing the burns, why didn't Lestat die when Magnus jumped in the fire?"
book: *crickets*
Lestat: "Akasha's hot, I want to make out with her."

Lestat: *makes out with her*
Lestat: "After all, if I anger the Ancient Egyptian Pharaoh, what's he going to do?  Challenge me to a children's card game?"
Ancient Egyptian Pharaoh: *begins crushing Letstat's head*
Lestat: "Fuck."

Marius: "By the way, don't tell anyone else about them.  Telling people the secret trick to destroy all vampires would be kinda bad."
Lestat: "No prob.  Who am I going to tell, my dad?  Louis, who freaks out so much I haven't even explained the mind-reading?"
Claudia: "What about me?"
Lestat: "Aww, you're so cute when you're innocent!  Yes you are, oh yes you are.  You are such a good girl!"

Lestat: "Armand killed Louis and Claudia.  The world is boring now.  I think I'll go crawl into a hole."
Armand: "Hey what about me?"
Lestat: *crawls into a hole*
Armand: *sigh* "Why does nobody love me?"

Lestat: "Hey, I hear rock and roll, and I think it's awesome!!!  I'm going to crawl back out of my hole now and form a rock band!"
Lestat: "Hey kids, my name is the Vampire Lestat, you're my backup band, and we're going to be famous!"
Kids: "Lestat...oh you mean like that fictional character written by Louis."
Lestat: "What????  Show me!  Now!"

Lestat: "Wow Louis, you broke all the rules.  That's MY job.  I'm going to do you one better by in addition to an autobiography, have music videos and live concerts.  Also, you don't know half the shit I do!"
Louis: "Hi, read your book, cool stuff, let's go to the concert!"
LoserPires: "You must die for what you have done Lestat!!!"
OVER NINE THOUSAND: *incinerates LoserPires* "Hey sexy, I'm back!"



Needless to say...much better than the first book for me.  That was actually enjoyable...especially towards the second half of the book when stuff started getting more and more ridiculous.  It is, however, noteworthy that I still find her descriptions of the mundane part of the universe pretty underwhelming.  It's not like I can't enjoy mundane (I'm a big Jane Austen fan and all that) I'm just not hugely impressed by Anne Rice's mundane.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 24, 2010, 06:52:08 PM
And falling, fly

Unique concept, massive reduction in points due to STEALTH ROMANCE. I could go into a long rant about my irritating with the trend in SF/F to go romance and stick those books in with the rest of SF/F, but I know how genre discussions go here. Suffice to say: HATE. THAT.

So, I wasn't expecting the romance (or, um, the graphic depictions of sex), but the overall concept was kind of nifty. You ever get really disappointed in a book because the idea was stellar but the execution left much to be desired? Yeah. Me with this one.

Am now reading The City & The City, FINALLY. Looking forward to this. Hyped by many authors I respect, plus nominated for a Hugo this year. Plus the cover blurb intrigued me before I even heard any of that stuff. I was just waiting for it to come out in paperback.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on May 24, 2010, 07:41:15 PM
So, I wasn't expecting the romance (or, um, the graphic depictions of sex), but the overall concept was kind of nifty.

There's an award given out every year, wish I could remember what it's called, for the most unnecessary sex scene in a fantasy novel.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on May 25, 2010, 01:23:54 AM
The Vampire Lestat


Needless to say...much better than the first book for me.  That was actually enjoyable...especially towards the second half of the book when stuff started getting more and more ridiculous.  It is, however, noteworthy that I still find her descriptions of the mundane part of the universe pretty underwhelming.  It's not like I can't enjoy mundane (I'm a big Jane Austen fan and all that) I'm just not hugely impressed by Anne Rice's mundane.


...I just don't understand you. How can you rave about Twilight but rag on the Vampire Lestat... I'm just having troubles wrapping my head around this.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 25, 2010, 01:25:24 AM
Pride and Prejuice and Zombies- Is bad fanfiction that at least has the good graces to realize it's bad. This puts it ahead of certain other undead related materials that are popular at the moment.

The art style was fantastic, while the rest was lacking.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on May 25, 2010, 04:51:26 AM
The Vampire Lestat


Needless to say...much better than the first book for me.  That was actually enjoyable...especially towards the second half of the book when stuff started getting more and more ridiculous.  It is, however, noteworthy that I still find her descriptions of the mundane part of the universe pretty underwhelming.  It's not like I can't enjoy mundane (I'm a big Jane Austen fan and all that) I'm just not hugely impressed by Anne Rice's mundane.


...I just don't understand you. How can you rave about Twilight but rag on the Vampire Lestat... I'm just having troubles wrapping my head around this.

From the MC Owners Manual:

Is the MC talking about

A) Math?
B) Programming?
C) The Vijiagame industry?
D) Her own personal experiences?
E) None of the above?

If E, then ignore.  Everything else is probably worth paying attention to.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on May 25, 2010, 04:56:28 AM
Pride and Prejuice and Zombies- Is bad fanfiction that at least has the good graces to realize it's bad. This puts it ahead of certain other undead related materials that are popular at the moment.

The art style was fantastic, while the rest was lacking.

The main problem with Pride and Prejudice and Zombies is that, even with the zombies, it's still Pride and Prejudice, and inherently insufferable.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 25, 2010, 05:11:01 AM
You actually read the dialog?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on May 25, 2010, 06:12:49 AM
My brother read me a couple chapters of it.  I asked him to stop, because Austen.

(for me, Austen dialog hits the "just shut up and get on with it" line very quickly.  Like David Eddings, but without the guarantee that eventually, when everyone stops talking, something will actually happen.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 25, 2010, 11:22:27 AM
Man you guys confuse me.  I always find her takes on things absolutely fascinating.  They can be utterly unexpected which makes it so much fun.  mc makes so much sense and is incredibly logical and at the end of the day still manages to be delightfully human. 

Also what is wrong with ragging on Vampire Lestat?  It isn't like it is good anyway.  It is big dumb and stupid.  It knows it, you know it, Anne Rice knew it.  That is what makes it fun.  Lestat is so over the top that he just revels in it.

The mundane things being boring is part of the whole HEY GUYS MY VAMPIRES ARE HUMAN GUYS thing.  They are boring because they are mundane things, partly so because they are mundane boring things in a book about a ROCK STAR VAMPIRE NIHILIST WHO IS TOTALLY SO POWERFUL HE CAN SURVIVE A DAY IN THE SUN WITHOUT BEING KILLED!!!!  That doesn't make it actually good or well written though.

It is a big dumb stupid fun book, which is EXACTLY what works best with 80s/90s vampire stuff in V:TM, it is exactly the stuff that Troika embraced in Bloodlines.  It knows not to take itself overly serious.  That of course is the biggest complaint most people aim at Twilight.  It is painful, bad stupid and obnoxious and TOTALLY actually a straight love story about an annoying bitch and her creepy abusive stalker boyfriend.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on May 25, 2010, 12:19:22 PM
They are boring because they are mundane things, partly so because they are mundane boring things in a book about a ROCK STAR VAMPIRE NIHILIST

That must be exhausting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on May 25, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
We're referring to MC as "her" now?  I always thought MC was genderless, like a Legendary Pokemon (or a Ditto...).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on May 26, 2010, 12:06:37 AM
We're referring to MC as "her" now?  I always thought MC was genderless, like a Legendary Pokemon (or a Ditto...).

And now I'm picturing MC as a Magnemite with a little bow. Thanks.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on May 26, 2010, 01:50:19 AM
Man you guys confuse me.  I always find her takes on things absolutely fascinating. 

MC's not a character in a work of literature, and I'm not pretending to be an anthropologist/psychologist.  Fascinating doesn't enter into the equation on this.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 26, 2010, 04:55:01 AM
Neverwhere- Blame LD. Just finishing this up tonight. It's been a very enjoyable read- Gaiman's style works well in the short novel format- but any further thoughts will require sleep.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on May 26, 2010, 06:14:30 AM
The majority of Neil Gaiman's books are Alice in Wonderland repackaged, but he's usually pretty entertaining. Would recommend American Gods over the others, personally.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 26, 2010, 08:49:54 AM
Sandman, do it.

You don't need to be an Anthropologist or a Psychologist to enjoy human interactions.  You could also just be really creepy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on May 26, 2010, 09:04:18 AM
Reading the complete Hitchhiker series again. I'm still skipping over most of "So Long and Thanks for All the Fish," because for fuck's sake I don't really care for the adventures of Arthur Dent trying to get his dick wet.  But at least the author tips me off to skip ahead. Nice of him.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 26, 2010, 11:49:23 AM
The majority of Neil Gaiman's books are Alice in Wonderland repackaged, but he's usually pretty entertaining. Would recommend American Gods over the others, personally.

*Nods* The book made me a little uncomfortable at points. Sewer people? Really? Yuck. Thankfully the violence was kept to a minimum, but the entire book felt like it was set in a dumpster.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on June 09, 2010, 03:30:47 AM
The Body Thief

...wait, apparently I forgot to comment on Queen of the Damned.

Queen of the Damned

Summary:

Lestat is sexy, and everyone wants to hear his concert.

OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND: Man, my husband is in a catatonic state, but in no danger of dying.  Let's kill him!
OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND: I'm going to kill all the vampires that aren't plot-relevant now.  (Don't worry dear reader: you didn't care about any of them anyway.  Except the ones I'm introducing right as I'm killing them.  And maybe that fat guy).
Talamasca: we're humans neutral to everyone.  We keep tabs on all things spiritual.
Talamasca: GHOST CLAUDIA!!!

Maharet: I've tracked my family tree for six thousand years.  I only track the girls though; sucks to be a boy because you can't tell if a kid is your own!
Maharet: Cannibalism is icky unless you're eating your own parents.
Maharet: So...vampirism all comes from this one spirit that's bonded to the body of OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND.  That's why hurting her hurts all the other vampires simultaneously.
Khamayan: Also, I raped Maharet and her sister, but I was always secretly on their side...and it's a good thing anyway because if I hadn't raped her then Maharet wouldn't have a family to creepily track through the years.

OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND: Okay, now that I've killed most of the vampires, it's time to KILL ALL THE MEN.
Lestat: WTF?
OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND: Think about it, without men there won't be any war or rape!
Lestat: That's a dumb argument; you could kill all the humans and there wouldn't be any war or rape.
OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND: But you have to admit, my solution is simple and elegant!
Marius: Simple and elegant solutions tend to be the most evil, actually.  Just ask Hitler about his "kill all the jews" plan.

OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND: I don't get it.  WHY DOES NOBODY WANT TO HELP ME WITH MY BRILLIANT PLAN??
Mekare: *rips your head off* *eats your heart and brain*
Maharet: Seeing as OVER SIX THOUSAAAAAND is "the mother" of vampires, we're in the realm where cannibalism is A-OK.
Armand: Thank god that's over.  I'm going to buy an awesome island now.  With blackjack.  And hookers.  We're going to make the best coven ever!
Lestat: I totally have not learned my lesson and am writing a book about all of this!


So...this book has the problem that some multiple perspective books sometimes have, which is that some of the perspectives are pretty thin on relevance--especially when they first introduce the perspective and the author wants you to know the character before that character gets connected to everything else.

I will give it credit for actually giving a logical explanation for why hurting "The Mother" hurts all vampires because they carry her blood, but when a "parent" vampire gets horribly burned, nothing happens to the new vampire (despite carrying the parent's blood).

On the other hand..."kill all the men to bring world peace"?  Really?  I mean, I'll admit I was enjoying the sheer quantity of female superiority attitudes that characters in this book professed.  However, this book contains a lot of rather blatant social commentary on what is moral and what is immoral.  Discussions of morality and solutions and how this world does not need spirituality and would be led away from the positive direction it is achieving with enforced spirituality fill large sections of this book.  And with all that discussion, what's the #1 question that gets debated about in this book?  Whether "kill all the men" is moral.  It strikes me that if this book really wanted to make interesting social commentary, it could have picked a less...obvious moral question as its central point of debate.

After the power level escalation that happens in The Vampire Lestat, QotD isn't left many places to go but sideways.  Maharet feels...off to me somehow; like...personality-wise she comes across as more like 60 rather than 6000.  Acts quite modern, and also kinda dumb making silly mistakes like inviting people she cares about into houses of vampires to look at secret history records that would interest almost anyone (how had she not learned her lesson about that a long time ago)?  Akasha...I suppose she's the right level of batshit insane given what's happened to her; yeah, she works fairly well.  Khamayan is...kinda dull.  Mekare...actually I rather liked what I saw with Mekare; not that she got much screen time.

In the mean time we have updates to the mythology.  The spirit-binding to the flesh explanation is...weird, but actually manages to explain some of the mechanically odd parts of the mythology (although...now that I think about it...book 4 has spirits swapping bodies between a vampire and a human which...how the hell does that work?  The whole process of becoming a vampire requires your spirit to be re-bonded to your body by the blood-drinking spirit).  The rest of the new mechanics...WTF--so apparently turning you into a vampire can cure horrible greivous wounds sewing them back together and regrowing breasts...but not cure things like eyes gouged out or cutting your tongue out (even though both of the pieces of flesh were still inside their respective bodies, having been swallowed).

The mechanical update that's really bugging me, though, is the whole "actually, our powers are just magic."  They fly by...willing themselves to fly.  They move so fast that nobody can see by...willing themselves to teleport.  I guess I'm kind-of used to thinking of Vampires like I think of Androids.  Cold as metal.  Strong as hell.  Very hard to destroy.  Incredible visual senses.  Incredible hearing.  Even some of the rarely seen mechanics can be explained in this way; turning into mist?  Sure, maybe vampires are billions of nanomachines that voltron into a human.  Mind-reading?  Sure, we can get some idea of what people are thinking with CAT scans/PET scans--maybe vampires just have amazing electromagnetic sensors.  And yet...here we have two mechanics explicitly introduced as "these are 100% magic."  And...they don't even need to be.  Moving so fast you appear to teleport?  All you need to pull that off is to be fast; it could have been explained in that way, and...it wasn't >_>

Overall...the book is slow at the start, but very fun towards the end (so...kinda like Book 2, except had me thinking "Really? That's the best you could come up with?" a few times...which Book 2 did not).

Book 4 coming up.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on June 09, 2010, 05:25:56 AM
The Body Thief

Lestat: "So...despite what I said at the end of the last book about everyone staying on Armand's island?  Yeah nevermind: everybody left Armand's island."

Lestat: "Hey David, wanna become a vampire?"
David Talbot: "For the thousandth time, no."
Lestat: "I'm going to kill myself now."
David Talbot: "NNNnnnnooooooooooooooooooo!"
Lestat: "I failed, but check out this bitchin' tan."

Body Thief: "Hey, Lestat, we can switch bodies."
Lestat: "I can be human??????"
David Talbot: "Don't do it.  Do you really want an evil psycho who forced some poor man out of his body to have that much power?"
Lestat: "I'm totally going to do it anyway.  Because I'm the James Bond of vampires!  I break rules!"

Body Thief: "I steal everything.  I engage in petty thievery at every opportunity.  Oh but don't worry--you can get me to switch back with you by baiting me with money.  I think I've demonstrated that I'm shallow by this point, so 10 million dollars will totally get me to switch back!"
Lestat: "Sounds good to me.  OMG A DOG.  SO CUTE!  Anyway, we switching?"
Body Thief: "Yep."

Lestat: "Hey, where's the money I stored?"
Body Thief: "Yoink!  Told you I was petty."
Lestat: "Hey, aren't we supposed to switch back now?"
Body Thief: "Yoink!  Told you I was petty."

Lestat: "Give me food please."
Waitress: "Get out bum!  Wait...is that your dog?"
Lestat: "Yes."
Waitress: "Oh, well in that case, have some wine and veal.  And sex later."

Lestat: "Is it later yet?"
Waitress: "Wait, put on a Condo--"
Lestat: "LEEEROYYY JEEEENNNKIIINS"
Waitress: "Stop!  Stop!  Rapist!"

Lestat: "So...I hate this constant eating, shitting, peeing, coldness, and aches and pains.  But the sun is awesome.  I'm going to stand outside and bask in the sun."
Stranger: "Dude, you're going to freeze to death."
Lestat: "It doesn't matter today.  I..." *falls over*

Lestat: "I'm talking with Claudia."
Claudia: "You're totally going to have sex with that nun."

Gretchen: "You know, you could atone for this past life by spending your current human life saving lives like I am.  I imagine you could save just as many lives as you've previously taken."
Lestat: "Tempting offer, but I'm too much of an attention whore.  I don't think I could live in a life where I wasn't center stage."
Gretchen: "OK whatever, let's have sex."
Lestat: "Done."

Lestat: "Louis!  I know you're going to help me.  Make me a vampire again!"
Louis: "You have...exactly what I wanted, and a perfect chance at redemption by living with Gretchen.  No, Lestat, I can't take that away from you; you'll thank me later."
Lestat: "WHAT?  When have I ever denied anything to you????" *burns down house*
(Incidentally, he denied a lot to Louis in Interview, like...refusing all information about other vampires.  So uhh >_>)

Lestat: "David, you have to help me!"
David Talbot: "Well, despite being a prim and proper 75 year old British gentleman...I want to have sex with you."
Lestat: "Oh, cool, my bed or yours?"
David Talbot: "Wait!  We don't have time just yet.  We may need to act fast to get your body back."

David Talbot: "And this is how you get back into your body."
Lestat: "OK, got it.  Can we have sex now?"
David Talbot: "I really, really want to, but I'm just too British."

Lestat: "Got my body back!  I wonder what happened in the fight between David Talbot and the Body Thief.  Ah whatever, I'm going to go visit Gretchen."
Lestat: "Hi Gretchen.  Everything I said was true, and you said you wanted to know."
Gretchen: *MENTAL BREAKDOWN*
Lestat: "Weird.  Earlier in the book I had concluded this was an amazingly strong character who wouldn't be driven insane.  That sucks."

Lestat: "Hey David Talbot, so how did the fight go."
David Talbot?: "My shots missed, he got away.  Hey make me a vampire."
Lestat: "ok"
David Talbot?: *is really the Body Thief in a different stolen body.*
Lestat: *kills*
Body Theif Talbot: "What?  You weren't supposed to kill me!  I didn't think you'd kill David Talbot's body."

Real David Talbot: "Actually, I'm cool with being in the body of a 26-year-old with a huge penis."
Lestat: "Oh, glad that worked out.  We can't be together, though."
David Talbot: "What, why?"
Lestat: "Because I want to make you a vampire and you keep telling me no :( :( :(."


This book...doesn't really take many risks with the setting; which is fine.  But it actually manages to have a few setting holes (it calls Maharet and Mekare "the oldest of us all", when in actuality Khamayan would be the oldest--seeing as how he's the one who transformed Mekare).  And...I already commented on how becoming a vampire involves the blood-drinker spirit to chain your soul to your body, so...soul swapping between a human and a vampire is...rather weird.

Characters I actually liked...Gretchen is awesome; although I don't like her reaction to the final reveal (the book spends so much time portraying her as amazingly mentally stable for a human, and totally ready for such information).  Mojo (the dog) is awesome.  The body thief...his entire personality is "I'm the ultimate kleptomaniac", which despite its one-dimensionality can be highly entertaining when taken to such extremes.  Everyone else...

Lestat comes across as such a whiner in this book.  Whines about wanting to be human...and then once he is whines about everything to do with being human.  (And gets copious amounts of sex in situations where he's not even looking for it, which is just weird).  David Talbot is...why does he hang out with Lestat?  The reason given in the book seems to be the danger-factor and Lestat's sex appeal.  These are shallow reasons to start with, but he also refuses sex from Lestat, and has dangerous things he's always wanted to do in South America, so...zuh?  I'm wondering if I actually don't have a good read on him.  Louis is...quite consistent with his earlier books; still unlikeable!  Claudia...somehow she left basically no impression on me; she was taunting Lestat and uhh...past that I don't remember much of what she did, or why she was there; half of it was re-playing book 1 scenes; most of the rest was just a peanut gallery commenting on stuff that was actually happening.

Overall...enjoyed this a fair bit less than 2 and 3.  (2 > 3 >> 4 >> 1 for my current opinion?)  The new stuff of value introduced into the setting was...honestly more to do with "here's how being human comes across to a Vampire", which is somewhat novel--the other way around (fledgling vampires describing their new experiences) has been done frequently by more than one author, so it was a nice twist.  But...the general not really liking the characters was an issue.  Yes, there's Gretchen (who...may well manage to be my favourite character in the series) and...a couple of one dimensional characters who make momentary appearances.  But those are small parts of the book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 09, 2010, 08:39:35 AM
Told you to stop after book 2 for a reason >_>  I highly reccomend stopping now, it only goes downhill (You read book 1 not because it is good but because it sets up 1 and is a good insight into the genre in general).

Quote
(Incidentally, he denied a lot to Louis in Interview, like...refusing all information about other vampires.  So uhh >_>)
While there is the untrustworthy narrator of the first book, Lestat is just totally that vain.

There is a lot of sex in the book because A) this is a book about vampires and I think I have covered pretty well about how this is a series that is all about sexual predators (which is on full display here) and B) this stuff is from Anne Rice' straight up porn era stuff.  Like for serious the other stuff she wrote (normally with Pseudonym) was straight up porn. 

If you feel the need to do more Anne Rice then check out Exit From Eden, but that is mostly just for interesting introspection into BDSM culture (which you get pretty throughly exposed to in these books with everyone other than lestat really).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 09, 2010, 04:14:04 PM
Am reading Anathem. First Neal Stephenson book I've taken on, and I'm sorry I missed the previous ones. I shall have to go back and read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on June 11, 2010, 04:37:11 AM
Told you to stop after book 2 for a reason >_>  I highly reccomend stopping now, it only goes downhill (You read book 1 not because it is good but because it sets up 1 and is a good insight into the genre in general).

Oh.  Well.  In that case....

The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner, an Eclipse Novella

...

...a.k.a. Stephenie Meyer writes some Twilight fanfiction and posts it on the internet (http://ld-breetannerbook.libredigital.com/index.html).

That turned out...a lot better than I expected.  Good enough that I actually don't want to spoil anything.  I will say that the copious amounts of manipulation was actually pretty fun to read about.  Also...I really, really hope the line "the cheeseburger of pain" makes it into the movie.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on June 11, 2010, 05:36:10 AM
Also...I really, really hope the line "the cheeseburger of pain" makes it into the movie.

Sigh.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 11, 2010, 08:40:38 AM
You want other kinds of dialogue in the movie?  Honestly I think everyone being all serious face and spouting out complete and total nonsense might make the movies appealing.  I would love to see a movie where everyone is deadly serious and suffers from Wernicke's aphasia.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on June 11, 2010, 04:06:54 PM
Yeah, Twilight is supposed to be funny.  The movies had the perfect genre at their disposal to pull that off--a genre that encompasses like...40% of all hollywood movies (romantic comedy).  Instead the movies try to be srs drama...with really bad actors...and terrible special effects...and rewritten dialogue that is neither funny nor dramatic.

A little humor would at least give the movies something they didn't completely fail at >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 11, 2010, 04:07:42 PM
Anathem feels like bits and pieces of a lot of other books. (NOTE: I can't be arsed to figure out if any of the vague things I'm about to say are spoilery, so... they may or may not be. You've been warned.)

The one that immediately comes to mind is The Giver, simply because this represents a society in which (some) people have been separated out from society and given a filtered world. It has touches of Brave New World in it for similar reasons. It is appropriate that it should feel like some post-apocalyptic dystopian universes since, well, the world is ending as far as the characters can tell. It also has little touches of basic sci fi -- SPOILER alien ships arrive that may or may not be alien and may or may not be aiming lasers at our nuclear caches because they may or may not be wanting to blow us up! we must figure it out! END SPOILER -- which is intriguing.

The part that got me excited about the book was the play on the manipulation and advancement of language. The elision and contraction Stephenson turns into functional words and new usage is very basic, but just a little clever all the same. The bits of language quirkiness and the experience of the main character, who is an "outsider," makes for an interesting character sketch.

Only about half-way through, so we'll see how this all ends up.

--

Re: the Stephanie Meyer novella, which I read thanks to MC's link. It was interesting in the same way the Twilight books were interesting -- that is to say, I can't figure out why such mind-numbingly dumb shit makes me want to read to the end, but it does. I highly recommend reading the Twilight Snark and then reading the novella; those two dovetail so well it's hilarious, though in a sad kind of way.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 22, 2010, 09:43:29 PM
Finished Anathem. Intriguing concept, decent characters, interesting world -- totally, totally destroyed by his overwrought prose. My god is he capable of killing a line of logic dead. I suspect fully 1/3 of that novel could simply have disappeared without there being any discernible difference.

Bought Warbreaker so I could have a fiction book to read at lunch for $5 and some change. We'll see how this goes.

(The book I brought to read, Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable, is non-fiction and my ability to tolerate non-fiction writing is directly proportionate to my attention span. Right now, attention span is hovering near 0.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on June 23, 2010, 09:40:08 AM
Nation- Read with a day of picking it up.  Engaging stuff.  While you can see flashes of Pratchett here and there elsewhere, usually it's subdued... except the parts from Daphne's point of view.  They could be placed into any Tiffany Aching novel and blend in.  This is a good thing, because there's a reason I went to the store to pick up more of those books and was disappointed I couldn't find any.

Funny... er, unusual funny, not laughing funny.  Anyway, funny book in its way.  It's really a book about faith, which comes to the unusual conclusion that faith is just something most people have and NEED to attach to something, not some mystical tool of perseverance.  Also takes the premise that the gods are just the wisdom people have forgotten, except Death which is very really and always there, whispering to those who ask questions.  Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Anyway, enjoyable, etc.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on June 23, 2010, 01:55:52 PM
Would you recommend Anathem if you haven't read the rest of the Baroque Cycle? (I read Quicksilver, but thats about it)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 23, 2010, 04:54:41 PM
Would you recommend Anathem if you haven't read the rest of the Baroque Cycle? (I read Quicksilver, but thats about it)

I haven't read anything else by Neal Stephenson, including Snow Crash (because I am a horrible SF/F fan). With that in mind, I would recommend it only if you have high tolerance for tortured logic and extended discourse. The first two or three sections are setting up the world and it takes a tortuously long time to even introduce the point. There is a point to those sections, of course, but it's mainly that the characters are built and the system set up. It really, really did not need to take that long.

Like I said: I liked the concept and the characters, and even the world. Just not the insistence on drawing everything out in full detail.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on June 23, 2010, 05:00:03 PM
Tortured logic and extended discourse are welcomed in place of Stephenson's usual problem, utterly irrelevant, extended mythology/history lessons. It was worst in Snow Crash, because it COMPLETELY ruins the flow of the narrative.

Though, if you AT ALL like Isaac Newton, I'd recommend Quicksilver. The parts with him are pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on June 23, 2010, 07:39:00 PM
Tortured logic and extended discourse are welcomed in place of Stephenson's usual problem, utterly irrelevant, extended mythology/history lessons. It was worst in Snow Crash, because it COMPLETELY ruins the flow of the narrative.

Hey.  I LIKED that irrelevant, extended mythology lesson.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on June 23, 2010, 11:16:58 PM
Fallen Angels, by Niven. The message I gathered from it is that the masses will be reactionary fuckheads no matter what their platform is.

Basically, shit gets bad enough that the masses get behind environmentalism and manage to ruin it completely by deciding that rather than using science to try and solve problems, that they should all become Luddites, let society break down, and people in Canada have to eat each other to survive.

Maybe you were supposed to take away a different message, but I gathered the message was "most people will always be dumb."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 24, 2010, 08:34:30 AM
Quote
Niven's Laws

Larry Niven is also known in science fiction fandom for "Niven's Law": There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it. Over the course of his career Niven has added to this first law a list of Niven's Laws which he describes as "how the Universe works" as far as he can tell.

Money on your interpretation being pretty right is not a bad bet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on June 27, 2010, 11:40:16 PM
A few things...

My Immortal - Read it before, but it is still as hilarious as ever to read again.  Best fanfic ever.

Sonichu - Read through all 11 or so of these.  Also hilariously bad.

The Guns of the South - Is awesome.  I think this is the first Turtledove standalone book I've read.  Anyway, as always, he does his homework - he knows the Civil War era perfectly, and writes everything so wonderfully that the immersion is perfect.  So perfect, that I also didn't realize one of the oddities of this book - there are only 2 point-of-view characters, which is way less than in any of his other books.  And despite that, the reader still gets a great handle on all the characters in the story.  Very good, and definitely deserving of the praise it gets. 

Next up is to start the Darkness series by Turtledove.  Should kick ass.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on June 28, 2010, 02:58:26 AM
I tried to get through Guns of the South, but I just couldn't.  I'm not sure what it is.  I love history/historical fiction/etc, but Turtledove just bored me.  His writing style, maybe?  From what I recall the plot and setting were pretty good, and the character work had promise... maybe I should give it another try. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 28, 2010, 03:21:49 AM
Warbreaker was kind of like writing Elantris with a magic system a la Mistborn. The characters were almost direct re-maps of previous Sanderson characters. That said, it wasn't a terrible book. Again, the magic system was intriguing. The characters, even if they were the same, were generally interesting. There was something that just never really clicked with all of it, though, and I HATE THE FREAKING ENDING. It wasn't a bad ending, per se, it just suffered from the same avalanche that his previous books did.

Makes me worry a tad for Wheel of Time, honestly. I just hope that someone else having written the skeleton makes a positive difference.

Back to reading a bit of non-fiction. When I figure out where I put The City & The City I'll probably try and finish that, too. Time to sell some books to the used book store and buy some new ones!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on June 28, 2010, 03:48:14 AM
The Host- So I thought to myself "what the hell, this has a premise that could damn well be written specifically for me, let's see if her writing is any good when you set aside the vampire romance".
So.  nice quick pace, engaging, moves in a logical way.  The mechanical writing and editing and so on is quality.  The subject matter... well.  It holds your attention and there's really only one aspect that's really eye-rolling, the utopian viewpoints of Soul society.  There's a number of places in the first half with extended commentary on how awesome and peaceful and dedicated to improving worlds the Souls are, and how innately savage humans are, and it's done too often to just be unreliable narrator.  Well, feels that way anyway.  That said, the bits about how Souls reproduce answered to my satisfaction why they were so utterly devoted to peace and tree hugging and harmony, and the misanthropy that comes through after that isn't enough to offset the book being otherwise enjoyable.

In all, doesn't maximize the potential of "basically a concept written specifically for CK" but doesn't utterly waste it either, better than I expected.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 28, 2010, 12:10:06 PM
I am trying out audio books and crime thrillers at the same time.  Soooo a good portion of the way through this.

Maltese Falcon - And I am fucking absolutely loving this.  The audiobook thing isn't quite working out as I had hoped (I normally do them for books I have already read), I keep finding myself having to rewind a bit when I get distracted and can't just passively listen to it, but I can put up with that, it is the same issue I have listening to podcasts while I work.  The thing that is really shitting me is that I bought it on iTunes.  Not that it is bad quality or anything, and definitely not the price (because fuck the price of audiobooks regularly).  It is the fact that oh my god this is so good I should totally give this to other people to listen to!  Well fuck.  So I might have to buy the book and lend it to my mother if she hasn't already read it.  Not sure how I can con one of my brothers into it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on June 29, 2010, 07:01:07 PM
House of Leaves: Finished in 10 hour marathon session yesterday.

Awesome, awesome book. Not enough
can really be said about it. Yes, there
are some extraneous parts, but on the
whole it really nailed what it set out to
do. The Navidson Record is utterly fantasic,
and Johnny's interludes are always good.
Excellent verisimilitude127 at work throughout.
Contrary to some, I liked how the Whalestoe
Letters wrapped everything[]up. The Pelican
Poems are what I thought were sort of eh.
The parts about the Minotaur were very...
striking, I guess? Fun way to beat your
audience over the head with something


[  ] many                     w
                                    a
                                       y
                                         s
to take the book. Just []akes it even more fun. Easter eggs128 galore. Everyone should read this book.129

________________________________________________________________________________________________________      
127 Verisimilitude is a word Andy likes very much.
129 This is not for you.130
130 But this is.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on June 29, 2010, 10:21:07 PM
Oh good, someone else who has read House of Leaves.  It is awesome, and more people should read it...


...including myself.  It's been...since High School?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 30, 2010, 09:36:52 PM
Tales of the Dying Earth

Went to the book store. I was going to buy Snow Crash, but I'm in a fantasy mood lately. Neil Gaiman, my favorite author, wrote a story in tribute of Jack Vance. It won an award, I read it, I liked it, so I grabbed this, the compilation of Jack Vance's Dying Earth novels.

Hooray for getting around to reading "classic" SF/F! I'm such a horrible fan sometimes. <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 07, 2010, 05:30:09 AM
Tales of the Dying Earth is terrible in all the ways early 20th-century SF/F is terrible -- overwritten and abrupt. It reminds me a bit of Zelazney and the Amber series, except at least the Amber series has a wonderful cast of characters and a terrific main. I say that except that I absolutely loved the Amber series. I just see the resemblance in writing trends -- and Zelzaney had the benefit of 20+ years of refinement in said trend.

Because I'm having such difficulty with it, I picked up Patricia C. Wrede's A Matter of Magic, composed of two Regency magic novellas, and I was thoroughly delighted. The writing was a little bit terrible, but all I ever care about is the character and the novelty of the plot, so it worked well enough to distract me a day or two.

Picked up a paperback copy of Snow Crash at the used book store yesterday, so I daresay I'll get to that before I make much headway with Tales.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 07, 2010, 06:26:46 AM
Shocking news, Good Omens was as good as hyped and everyone should read it. Going to tackle Anansi boys next.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 07, 2010, 08:53:36 AM
The Maltese Falcon - Cheesey dialogue ending?  Why yes it is.  Is it completely and totally awesome?  Why yes it is.  Fuck yes.  Read this book.  Do not regret purchasing.  Will try another audiobook from iTunes sometime.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 07, 2010, 01:44:47 PM
Shocking news, Good Omens was as good as hyped and everyone should read it. Going to tackle Anansi boys next.

If you haven't read American Gods yet, I'd recommend holding off on Anansi Boys. Not that it's unreadable without it (I did it), but there's a lot in AB that works within the framework that American Gods sets (plus, American Gods is flat better).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 07, 2010, 04:53:44 PM
Shocking news, Good Omens was as good as hyped and everyone should read it. Going to tackle Anansi boys next.

If you haven't read American Gods yet, I'd recommend holding off on Anansi Boys. Not that it's unreadable without it (I did it), but there's a lot in AB that works within the framework that American Gods sets (plus, American Gods is flat better).

Agreed.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on July 07, 2010, 06:10:27 PM
The Maltese Falcon - Cheesey dialogue ending?  Why yes it is.  Is it completely and totally awesome?  Why yes it is.  Fuck yes.  Read this book.  Do not regret purchasing.  Will try another audiobook from iTunes sometime.

I approve of the Maltese Falcon.

Dashiell Hammett >>> Raymond Chandler; screw what the literary critics say.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on July 07, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
Shocking news, Good Omens was as good as hyped and everyone should read it. Going to tackle Anansi boys next.

If you haven't read American Gods yet, I'd recommend holding off on Anansi Boys. Not that it's unreadable without it (I did it), but there's a lot in AB that works within the framework that American Gods sets (plus, American Gods is flat better).

Agreed.

Thirded. American Gods is the best thing he's produced (aside from Good Omens. On that note, read more Pratchett, aiel).

Also, LD, which Dying Earth book did you read? The first one is a disconnected series of short stories and kind of a jumble, yeah. Cugel stuff is much more worth reading (I think he had two books, but I could be remembering wrong) just for the sheer bastardry. He's not always a magnificent bastard in the tropetastic sense, as that generally implies likability; his disciplined venality is merely constantly inspiring in horrible, horrible ways.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 13, 2010, 08:04:27 PM
Mister Sandman, bring me a treat~


Up to Rose's story. She just left the boarding house to find her brother. Gaiman's storytelling works *much* better in this format to me, it feels like. The visual medium and his style of writing just mesh really nicely.

Edit: The story about the emperor of the united states was great as well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 14, 2010, 08:17:28 PM
Also, LD, which Dying Earth book did you read? The first one is a disconnected series of short stories and kind of a jumble, yeah. Cugel stuff is much more worth reading (I think he had two books, but I could be remembering wrong) just for the sheer bastardry. He's not always a magnificent bastard in the tropetastic sense, as that generally implies likability; his disciplined venality is merely constantly inspiring in horrible, horrible ways.

I'm reading Tales of the Dying Earth which compiles The Dying Earth, The Eyes of the Overworld, Cugel's Saga, and Rialto the Magnificent. I was speaking of the first tale in The Dying Earth. Having read a little further (though I think I'm still in the first book), I do feel it's evening out a little. I may have been particularly annoyed just because I've been so immersed in current market fiction, which has a VERY different set of style guidelines than stories from Vance's career.

--

Am reading Snow Crash and, holy crap! This is so much better.

I totally get why Anathem read the way it did now. I was flip about Stephenson's devotion to detailing the mythology and history, but it is really what he does. It just happens to work a hell of a lot better in the Snow Crash world (i.e., an envisioned future with things we've never seen before) than in the Anathem world (i.e., a throwback culture with new names for familiar stories).

I dig his devotion to language culture. That, more than anything else, is what kept me going through Anathem, and it's definitely what makes Snow Crash work for me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on July 15, 2010, 01:11:50 AM
In the way of books, mostly been rereading old stuff.  Stalled out on Wheel of time at the end of Crown of Swords, and meandered on to other stuff.  Notably, just finished the four Fool & Dragons books I haven't lent out (also known as Hobb's Trilogy of Trilogies) which consists of Assassin's Quest and the Tawny Man series.  Tawny Man was good stuff, especially the ending and its horribly long denoument, which serves partially to tie up loose ends for the series, but also to tie up loose ends for the survivors.  The best part was going over it, and how well I remembered the first book, but how loosely events in the second two books of the Tawny Man held together.  Fool's Fate especially.

Assassins Quest, on the other hand, wasn't anywhere near as strong.  The first half I enjoyed, given that it's mostly Fitz interacting with the people of the Six Dutchies as he and they try to survive.  And it's basically an adventure as he has a goal to reach, and several obsticles in the way.  Meanwhile, the second half, when he's past the Mountain Kingdom I found much weaker until after he reaches the quarry.  I think because during that stretch, from Jhampe to the quarry the story is more about the mystery of the setting and more pressing concerns, including the characters and their development, get sidetracked.  This struck me as odd because the last time I reread this book I didn't have that issue, and yet, I think that's because by the end of Fool's Fate, most of the questions raised here in Assassin's Quest are resolved, whereas on the second reading before the Tawny Man series was finished, there were still clues to mine, and answers to find.  Either way, this book has left me with a strong desire to reread the first two Assassin books, but I haven't seen the person I lent them to in ages, and am not entirely sure how to get in touch with them, so I'm making due without.

Mostly by moving on to another series that deserves a good rereading.  Just restarted Mistborn, having fun catching all of the things that were either not worth noticing the first time, or which were simply part of the mystery.  Just finished Part 1, and going strong.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 15, 2010, 07:32:55 PM
http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?cat=4

WoT Book 10's ebook cover is out, and it's a good one. (Also the best scene in the book, not that this says a ton)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 21, 2010, 03:18:26 AM
American Gods- Done. It was most enjoyable, though I need to hash over the main plot some in my head.


I'm about 75% of the way through Sandman as well.

Edit: Sandman done!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 22, 2010, 04:31:29 AM
Summer of Gaiman: I've read Neverwhere, Good Omens, Sandman, and American gods this summer. It's not a complete list of Gaiman's works, but it gives me enough to reflect on.

Cid referred to his works as Alice in Wonderland repackaged. That is certainly true in Neverwhere and American gods, while Good Omens and Sandman are more of a supernatural bent for most of the characters. Gaiman does some things very well. Every single one of his works is just entertaining to read- Gaiman creates vivid settings and uses them to full effect. Neverwhere conjures up images of sewers and the underground, Sandman of Dream's realm, etc.  He also does a good job avoiding loose end. Bit characters appear again and have larger roles, and generally everything has some purpose if it's mentioned. His bit characters in general are well crafted and are memorable. Gaiman definitely recycles material. You can see ideas he touched on in sandman used in later novels. The love goddess working as a stripper/whore stuck out like a sore thumb, and there were others. He also does not give a good mental picture of his characters. Shadow in particular stands out for that, though it may be intentional there.

Neverwhere-

The good: The villians. The main villians of the book are a couple of demonic enforcers who constantly harass the party, and come off as *extremely* threatening the entire time. They are a constant pain in the ass, and never lose that threat value. The main baddie is also a lot of fun- the book throws a couple of good plot twists at you as well. [text=1pt]Islington being the main villian not only was a good plot twist, it makes perfect sense. He needed Richard to get that key for him from the monks, and has his hired flunkies harassing you while Hunter makes sure Richard/Door don't get killed in the mean time.[/text] The scenery was extremely vivid in this book and really helps sell you on the Underworld in which Richard and Door wander through. Door's power is not only interesting, it is used in a fairly logical way. Supporting characters in general were good.

The bad: Richard has zero personality. He's boring and doesn't really have chemistry with anyone. He gets a little better at the end, but for the vast majority of the book he is a passive viewpoint into the world. I didn't much care for the very, very end of the book at first, though my opinion has improved there. Door herself doesn't develop too terribly much. The book is more about showing off the world, and trades character work for those two for more in depth exploration of  the world.


I really liked this book in spite of the problems with the viewpoint character.

Good Omens-

The good: The angel/devil combo and some of the footnotes. The two have great chemistry and some of the best humor is related to them. Adam has a couple of shining moments, and the ending is enjoyable enough.

The bad: The book is always enjoyable to read, sure. It isn't always funny. Some of the substories really aren't that interesting.

The book overall is fun and deserves it's hype, but Prachett is very hit or miss with me if this book is any indication. It is also very readable and doesn't drag, though the main plot itself is a bit of a mess.


Sandman-

The good: Can I put everything? The visuals themselves are striking. The characters are very good, from Dream on down to bit characters like Barbie. The side stories by and large are great, as is everything. The story starts with a band, with Dream recovering his powers. The run could have easily ended at that point, but it then branches out into characters like Rose, who branches out into Barbie, etc. Characters interact and meet and have their own arcs. The comic is definitely aimed at adults in terms of content and material, but it never revels in violence or sex.  It's 77 comics long and generally avoids being boring, which speaks as to the effort at Gaiman put into it.

The bad:  Not enough Death. The inn at the end of all worlds lagged a bit as well.


American Gods:

The good: Chemistry. The book is defined by relationships. Shadow and Laura, Shadow and Wednesday, Shadow and Mulligan, etc. Shadow and his relationships drive this book. The concept itself of the book is fun. A bunch of run down Gods from the old world are trying to survive in a place that is hostile to gods. The writing is as crisp as always.

The bad: THE ENDING. Oh god, what a Sanderson avalanche.  The payoff's good, but everything just slams down at you with way too little time to sort through it. The twists themselves were clever, though the final one is extremely easy to figure out.


Sandman is Gaiman's best work to me, hands down. The books/comics were more than worth the effort to read and are something everyone should take a look at.

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/1099/sandman66p17.jpg) (http://img814.imageshack.us/i/sandman66p17.jpg/)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 22, 2010, 05:40:26 AM
*scrolls back to see what she last wrote about*

Snow Crash was pretty great. I was a little disappointed by the ending, but I can't think of an ending that I've really liked in a long while so that sort of short-coming gets a pass for now.

The Somnambulist is an interesting tale. Flat, and not terribly well organized, but the concept is entertaining enough. Will be finishing that tonight, likely, and then...

American Gods reread! Talking to super, I realized I haven't read this since 2003 or so and it's high time I reread Gaiman anyway. Especially since I seem to be in between really good series/authors at the moment.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on July 22, 2010, 06:50:17 PM
Living Dead in Dallas (from the Sookie Stackhouse series that True Blood is based off of):

So...this young woman is dating a vampire, has another friend who is a werecreature/shape-shifter who makes out with her (and whom she finds weirdly warm after making out with a vampire) there have been vampire surgeons in this universe, one of the two main lovers is a mind reader...but the mind-reading doesn't work on the other lover.  I feel like I'm getting deja-vu here.  (*checks* well it predates Twilight, so if there is plagiarism it's on Twilight's end).

In comparison to Twilight it's...R-rated, complete with sex scenes, murders, gay orgie parties.  None of this changes the dynamic all that much.  The big difference comes from the fact that Vampires have gone public in this series, and are somewhat integrated into society (including owning their own businesses) and facing their own version of the KKK.  The other big difference, is that the main human character is competent (to a level that I suppose she could be called a Mary Sue), and if anything it's the Vampire that's the ditz.

Overall, solid; I haven't finished the last few chapters, and I feel like I should find the first book and read that before I really form more distinct opinions.  First impressions are overall positive without being adoring.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on July 22, 2010, 09:00:39 PM
He also does not give a good mental picture of his characters. Shadow in particular stands out for that, though it may be intentional there.

In this case at least, I think that's very intentional.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 22, 2010, 09:53:02 PM
I would make the case -- and have before -- that Gaiman does it intentionally in almost every case. He is less interested in telling the story of characters than he is of telling the story of, well, stories.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on July 22, 2010, 10:09:16 PM
Reread The Last Dragonlord and Dragon and Phoenix. Good easy reads, pretty much fantasy romance with a definite emphasis on the fantasy end. Also has strong non-stereotypical female characters (LADY MAYHEM, also the lead female) which is nice. Rather like how most the characters are written, in fact, but I'm kinda weird apparently so.

Rereading Otherland now.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 23, 2010, 08:57:22 PM
The Maltese Falcon - Cheesey dialogue ending?  Why yes it is.  Is it completely and totally awesome?  Why yes it is.  Fuck yes.  Read this book.  Do not regret purchasing.  Will try another audiobook from iTunes sometime.

While I'm thinking about it, are you planning a trip over to John's Grill? Their chops are quite pricey ($30), but it might be worth a look.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 24, 2010, 02:21:59 AM
I plan nothing, but any suggestions for awesome things to do is a good idea.

Moab is My Washpot by Stephen Fry - Next audio book I am reading, is his biography read by himself which is why I bought it.  I am almost finished it and I am adoring it.  I find it hard to suggest biographies to people, but if you like everything about Stephen Fry it is well worth picking up.  Interesting tales of British public schools in the 50s from a young homosexual.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 26, 2010, 04:40:17 AM
Anansi boys: >_<. About a fourth of the way through the book. Way to completely recycle Neverwhere's male lead so far, Gaiman. I liked him so much the first time through!

Edit: Finished. I had the opposite reaction El Cid had. The book picked up around the one third mark, and characters I wanted to punch in the face (Spider/Anansi/Fat Charlie) got depth and got far more interesting. The plot is pretty simple, far more than Neverwhere or American Gods. It's helped by how much local flavor from St Andrews soaks through; I want to visit that island now.

Edit2: Yes, I realize St Andrews island doesn't exist. My point stands.

Edit3: Read Stardust today. Great fun, even if doesn't deviate from Gaiman's usual style.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on July 28, 2010, 09:08:01 AM
Making this post mainly to really summarize these for myself, but also since I haven't made a post here forever. About...6 months ago? 8? Grefter gave me a long list of fantasy authors to try out! All of which I think I basically have by this point, so...(in semi generalized order of reading)

Deverry Series/Katherine Kerr (12 or 13 books?): Read all but the last, which came out within the past year or so and therefore is only hardback. Didn't like the series enough to grapple with a hardback book. Biggest standout feature is how realistic it is. Author was potentially some kind of medieval historian because everything feels so grounded. Deals with reincarnation cycles, but also has the least threatening villains ever. The magic isn't completely potent at all, but the villains are so lolzy that even the weak magic seems to completely over power them. Series worked very well overall despite this; just makes it feel like some kind of odd historical narrative. Too much pointless dragon hype instance 1. None of the books were best really as they were kind of all the same.

Riftwar Saga (4 Books, Don't remember the author off the of my head): Unlike Deverry series where the books are very even, Riftwar Saga is an exercise is great uneveness. Book 1 was solid setup, book 2 has the fascinating otherworld parts, book 3 has some quirky exploration but kind of ditches the book interested world, and book 4 falls apart! Granted, it can be hard to end a fantasy series, but felt like the author may have started drugs during the last book or something. Book 2 was by far the best.

The Caves of Eileanen/Kate Forscyth (6 books): No idea if the series was called, but going with my gut reaction. Took a while to deal with the damn subsitution of "ken" for "know." Otherwise, fairly entertaining series that was decently fast paced and interesting. Isabeau for the most part was great. Parts of book 6 kind of came out of nowhere, but it worked. Too much pointless dragon  hype instance 2. Book 4 (at least I think it was book 4) was definitely the stand out for Isabeau's time with the Khan'coban.

The Crown of Stars/Kate Elliot (7 books): WIN. Awesome, awesome overall series. Great combo of epic with solidly rounded and not out there villains, several very interesting arcs and lots of twists and turns. I did finish the 7th book with 2 major questions, but looking online tells me one was never answered and rechecking the book heavily implies that the other wasn't either. Books 1 and 4 were likely the best, although I thought the series carried itself very well all the way through. +2 points just for going and hyping some other dragon animal besides a dragon! +2 more for what she did with the map. Disapointed that book 6 and 7 were so relatively short, but then I read that they were originally going to be one 1200 page book (Which is one, because the ending of book 5 was colossal enough to have milked out even more; Then again, I did find the world fascinating, so that could be why I wouldn't have minded 6 and 7 being 800-900 pages like the others).

The Way of Kings/Joe Abercrombie (3 books): Solid intro for a new writer. The main cast is immensely likable, so that was well done. Gut says that I think Grefter would enjoy at least the first two books of this series. Third kind of unraveled a little unfortuantely.

Rhiannon's Ride/Kate Forscyth (3 books): Follow up to Caves of Eileanen. Book 1 is fantastic. Unique, interesting, and very tense. Books 2-3 unravel though. Book 2 features formerly smart characters ignoring way too many premonitions. Book 3 features both annoying ressurection and a nearly pointless trip back through time! The drop between books was incredible, especially since book 1 may have been the best book she wrote.

Watcher of the Dead/JV Jones- Book 4 of the series. Was really looking forward to this because I felt like the series has actually been one of the best fantasy ones I've read. It's very unique and fast paced. Unfortunately, I feel about maybe 1/3 of the plot threads stalled a little in this book and that it should have been longer. I really like what she did with the plot threads that didn't stall (Well...Raif should have gotten more done), but I felt like the previous books accomplished more. I have no idea how long this series is supposed to be, but I'm guessing not 5 books since I just don't see all of the story wrapping up in 1 book.

Spirit Gate/Kate Elliot (3 books): Finishing up book 1. Big step down from Crown of Stars. The world feels less real (CoS was able to pretty quickly craft a reasonable political setup and give fairly strong reasons for it). Suppose this could be a setup book, but it's a bit underwhelming.

Know I'm forgetting some of the other books he recommended, but so it goes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 28, 2010, 09:24:45 AM
Nice dude!  Glad you have chewed through so much backlog of my old pulp favourites.  Love hearing an older much more aware reader's point of view than my much younger self.

Feist did the Riftwar stuff, a little suprised you liked Silverthorn more than Magician (or did you read one of the versions with Magician split up?), it is a pretty huge series and I reccomend reading some more if you can stomach it.  It loses some of the fun when the focus shifts off of Jimmy or Arutha for the sequels (Magician... plot outside of Pug or Thomas frustrated me a little for all that Arutha and Jimmy plot ends up pretty good), but generally it is a pretty indepth piece of epic fantasy.  Edit - Oh and the spin off Empire series that is about the other side of the rift is pretty fascinating as well.  Should be pretty readable with how far through the series you got.  It dumps you in the politics of the empire and stays away from the actual fighting through the Rift mostly and shows kind of just how much of a force of nature the mages are in that world.

Of course you should also totally check out Betrayal at Krondor, freeware RPG that Feist helped write back in the day, great game.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 28, 2010, 05:31:26 PM
Finished a re-read of American Gods. I still like it. The ending falls a little flat with me, as it doesn't seem to strike a balance between telling why things happened and alluding to them or showing, but that's okay. I like Shadow.

Occurs to me I haven't finished The City & The City yet. It was quite different from what I anticipated, hence the delay. It's not that it's bad. It's just that I was expecting something else and my taste for stories depends on my mood. Time to finish it!

Still working on Tales of the Dying Earth, but that one took a back-burner to everything else I have.

Next is probably Endless Nights (Sandman) if I can find it, or maybe Anansi Boys. I think the only copy of Anansi Boys I have is my signed copy, so that one may need to wait until I pick up a paperback.

I pre-ordered Shades of Milk and Honey (August 3), Dreadnought (September 28) and Towers of Midnight (November 4), so at least there's some new reading coming up.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 28, 2010, 05:55:37 PM
I used to have a backup copy of Anansi Boys. Then I got that signed too. Now I just read my signed copies.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on July 28, 2010, 08:28:43 PM
Whatever copy of Silverthorn I had started with Pug being in the other world. I found the foundation and history of the other world to be more interesting, which is why I had it to be a superior book. Magician was a solid intro, decently tense, and well paced, but Silverthorn just had a more interesting social system. Oh right, forgot to add to that Random Dragon overhype v3! I plan on making my way towards the other Feist books. Spinoff of the other empire would definitely be the bigger draw.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 28, 2010, 08:35:23 PM
Some printings split Magician into two books, Apprentice and Master, and make Silverthorn book 3.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 29, 2010, 12:00:09 AM
But yeah I checked Wiki last night and there is more Pug stuff in Silverthorn than I remembered.  If it helps as well the Empire trilogy is written by another author that worked fairly closely with Feist.  Not that I find Feist bad or anything, just the switching up of authors in the setting is nice considering how prolific Feist is and that it is a completely different tone and world than he works in the majority of the time.

Also forgot to say since you are almost done with Kerr's fantasy you should totally get into her Sci-Fi as well.  Polar City Blues is a fun little murder mystery with drugs, mutants and baseball.  Polar City Nightmare was co-written with another author, not as fun but still a nice little read (small books, kind of counterpoint to her Deverry stuff) and Palace is still a grand piece of Sociology to me, it doesn't hold up to really intense theory after three years of studying it with every elective at Uni, but it is still pretty solid and fun with massive points for you know, at least attempting (if not deliberately) to be cohesive within those schools of thought.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 30, 2010, 09:03:36 PM
Chris Jericho's biography- It's okay enough. I wouldn't pay much money for it, but it's a cool enough look at the journey he made from childhood to joining the WWF in 1999.

West and East- It was entertaining enough. I thought it was an improvement on the first book in terms of branching out. Apparently it is going to be a longer series, so we'll see how long it stays interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 02, 2010, 03:31:44 PM
Dead Until Dark (1st Sookie Stackhouse book; oh and I also finished the second).

Stuff happens.  I like Bubba.  The sex is good.

Yet somehow the book isn't fully resonating with me.  And...I'm having trouble nailing down why; usually when I don't like a book, I'll have very clear flaws that bug me, whereas this is more apathy.  I'll make a couple guesses.  There were a couple sentences I didn't understand the first time, went back to reread (twice) and realized that they didn't make sense to me.  (Perhaps a southern saying I'm not familiar with?)  So it could be that the language rubs me the wrong way a little.  I'm also not sure how I feel about the mythology as its presented; the main character walks away from vampire encounters completely unaffected--sure vampires can mindwipe other humans in the story...but not her.  At several points it feels like the author doesn't really want to write about vampires so much as minorities and discrimination.  Which is fine, I guess, just...maybe not what I was looking for in my research.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on August 02, 2010, 07:58:50 PM
Sandman would be awesome if it didn't suffer from terrible 90s art.

Also, super, if you want to see Gaiman flexing his storytelling abilities without the recycled bits, grab one of his shortstory collections. His longer novels definitely have some very common patterns to them, but his shortstories are allowed to run off in a bunch of different directions to great effect (though there are some letdowns).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on August 02, 2010, 08:29:19 PM
Everybody should at least read A Study in Emerald. That was awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 02, 2010, 09:28:05 PM
Sandman's art was very hit and miss. I really loved the artist who did the final arc, at least.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 02, 2010, 09:40:47 PM
Endless Nights.

I don't care that it's ancillary.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 04, 2010, 04:25:12 AM
Anansi Boys reread complete. Turns out I actually really enjoy that one. I recall not liking it as much as American Gods the first time around, but this time I liked it more. It has more flavor, and tells the story about the narrator's struggles and change, versus American Gods which was more about the environment/a secondary character (Laura)'s struggles and change through the protagonist's eyes.

Shades of Milk and Honey came in today, so that's preempted the Neverwhere reread for now. So far, so good! Its common tag is "What Jane Austen would have written if she lived in a world of magic," and that is holding true so far. However, Kowell has the benefit of being a modern writer, and she has far more engaging characters and less exposition about propriety. It's fun!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bardiche on August 05, 2010, 04:11:23 PM
Does anyone have a good recommendation for a good online bookstore? I've been looking for a hardback copy of Steven Erikson's Memories of Ice, but so far no luck. Checked BookDepository, but they only have the paperback version. I guess I'll buy that if I have to, but I like my hardback copies. :V
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Tonfa on August 05, 2010, 04:39:45 PM
Read Sandman at super's recommendation. At the beginning it seemed like it just had to shoehorn in the chewed up superheroes seemingly present in every American comic, and the shock imagery was stupid, but it quickly gained its foothold (not that it ever got that much better about the latter) and the strength of the interwoven stories presented itself. Most of the big arcs, with the exception of Barbie's, had great narrative flow and were entertaining to read through. Oneshots were hit and miss - highlights are Prez Rickard and Emperor Norton. Overall worth reading, though very uneven.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 05, 2010, 05:22:03 PM
Shades of Milk and Honey finished. It was a relatively short book, but it also read very easily. It is very much a story as written by Jane Austen -- (minor spoilers if you aren't familiar with what this means) focusing entirely on a pair of sisters who are in the midst of attempting to catch a husband, one of which is more smart than pretty, the other vice versa, men are doing man things, there is confusion, and the smart one ends up with someone she didn't even think to be interested in but who turns out to be perfect -- only with magic.

The magic part was interesting. It attempted to provide a style of magic that would fit into the historical timeline without changing it. It was women's magic, basicallly: beautiful, but not militarily applicable. However, it did provide the central conceit, and it was fairly well handled. I enjoyed the book overall, though I do have to roll my eyes a little at the "smart girl gets everything she never knew she wanted in the end" finale.

Working on Neverwhere again. It occurs to me that I only own an uncorrected proof, so I'm not sure what delightful surprises await me in here. I'm not sure I'll notice, either, as it's been a good 5 years since I last read Neverwhere.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 05, 2010, 06:48:15 PM
boys will be boys: THe biography of the Dallas Cowboys, from Jerry Jones's takeover to their final superbowl win. It is a great look at the team and how they got corrupted by drugs/money/etc. Everyone got fairly sympathetic treatment in the book even if they were scum or crazy, and the author does a good job in being even in how he presented the material.

One exception: He paints Skip Bayless as a total piece of shit, which should surprise no one.

Edit: Graveyard book finished. Gaiman captures the whimsy of childhood perfectly in the book, and it has his usual fun setting as well. I see why it got so many awards.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on August 10, 2010, 09:16:59 PM
So I wandered into a used paperback store to see if there was anything there, and in the Sci-Fi section, while I saw no Battletech books, somehow they had the entire catalogue of the Mechwarrior: Dark Ages series... including 15 or so books I never even knew they published. I'd thought the whole franchise went down a book or two after Fortress Republic. I guess they just weren't picked up in big box retailers. Couldn't help but grab one for the plane, since they were half off. It's amusing how many of the back synopsis can have "they fight crime!" added to the end and it'd still make total sense.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 10, 2010, 09:30:41 PM
Finished Neverwhere the other day. Sort of on reading hiatus right now because work is being dumb, and hosting people takes up time too.

So. I still like Neverwhere a lot. I still think it may be one of my favorites, and I'm still glad it's the book of Gaiman's I read first. I think whatever real problems there in the book are solved by acknowledging two things: 1) Gaiman's characters are facets of the universe he writes; 2) this particular book is a novelisation of a TV miniseries.

I love Door. The whole ending sequence makes me think of Super Mario Bros. the movie, which I also adored for reasons that have nothing to do with how terrible a movie it really was.

So, <3.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on August 18, 2010, 04:55:21 AM
Mistborn- just finished hero of ages.  Good series, highly readable.  I do feel like the series peaked early (the Sanderson rush at the end of the first book was really a highlight) but the continuation was largely enjoyable.
Admittedly, the conceptual part of book two didn't thrill me (EU fan) but the character work was of course still strong.  The world building and mythos aspects of 3 were great, although for the most part the principle cast had already finished their character arcs by then so that aspect was fun but less engrossing.  This leads to the odd situation in which my favorite chapters were the stuff with TenSoon.  Ah well, even if he was more serious in this book the snarky-as-sin kandra is still pretty awesome.

So yeah, just a good read that does very little wrong and has compelling work throughout, just different strengths at different times.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 18, 2010, 05:17:36 AM
Finished Neverwhere the other day. Sort of on reading hiatus right now because work is being dumb, and hosting people takes up time too.

So. I still like Neverwhere a lot. I still think it may be one of my favorites, and I'm still glad it's the book of Gaiman's I read first. I think whatever real problems there in the book are solved by acknowledging two things: 1) Gaiman's characters are facets of the universe he writes; 2) this particular book is a novelisation of a TV miniseries.

I love Door. The whole ending sequence makes me think of Super Mario Bros. the movie, which I also adored for reasons that have nothing to do with how terrible a movie it really was.

So, <3.

Yeah, I find it hard to argue with those points. Reread neverwhere on the way over to DLC, and still dug it. It was a fast reread on the second time through, and it never drags once it gets going.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 18, 2010, 09:20:33 AM
Spirit Gate/Kate Elliot (3 books): Finishing up book 1. Big step down from Crown of Stars. The world feels less real (CoS was able to pretty quickly craft a reasonable political setup and give fairly strong reasons for it). Suppose this could be a setup book, but it's a bit underwhelming.

Finished this series during con! Books 2 and 3 swung way upward in quality compared to book 1. Likely combo of the world felt a lot more fleshed out (for an obviously unique world, book 1 didn't really hammer out the uniqueness of the culture. Books 2 and 3 succeeeded there) and that the mystical/historical setup in book 1 started to get payoff right at the beginning of book 2. Characters were great and by the end, I was generally happy to read all the points of the view. I wouldn't have minded if Elliot had managed to retouch on Kirit's faraway tribe, but I guess that was so out there.

Once again, excellent job building up credible villains without going over the top or tacky (Although compared to Crown of Starts, villains really took a large backseat here).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on August 18, 2010, 03:11:36 PM
Haven't read much fiction this summer, mostly class materials and other stuff that isn't as interesting.  Regardless...

V for Vendetta - A lot better than the movie.  About halfway through. 

Blood Meridian - Maybe I'm just not in the mood to deal with McCarthy's style, but try as I might I can't get into it as much as I got into The Road.  I'll give it another shot at some point, but this is going back on the shelf for now.

Kafka on the Shore - Murakami Haruki is absolutely brilliant.  This is excellent surrealist fiction.  Very well written, though you won't like it much if you have an allergy to allegory. 

Bless Me, Ultima - One of those books I 'read' in college, and by that I mean "I read half of it before getting swamped/lazy and BSing my way past that portion of the course."  Which was always kind of disappointing, because it's an excellent book; so I'm reading it properly now.  It's in a similar vein as Kafka on the Shore, though the fantastic elements are closer to magical realism than they are to surrealism.  It's also pretty interesting how Anaya occasionally writes things in English using Spanish word order and syntax.    Another book I highly recommend to anyone who won't spend the entire time bitching about how everything is a metaphor to an extent.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 18, 2010, 07:53:27 PM
Moon Called (Patricia Briggs) -- a.k.a. the book I had with me at DLC5

Actually very good.

It's basically hardboiled detective fiction.  Except about a female VW mechanic who can change into a Coyote, was raised by Werewolves, was trained by a metalworking gremlin faerie, and is friends with a vampire.  Despite how zany this sounds, the book is definitely more serious and less humorous than the last three vampire series I've read (not saying much, mind you, when the most serious of the three was Anne Rice).

Moon Called just has...good story flow, and layers of depths to the politics and underhandedness, strong characters with some development, and the book doesn't really have any "bad parts".
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 18, 2010, 11:07:26 PM
Read Scott Pilgrim volumes 1-4 at DLC. Enjoyable! It helped me enjoy the movie, too, though I'm noticing a lot of artistic liberties that the film took. It was fine, really, because it actually acknowledges the difference in media. Go figure.

Am reading Ruled Britannica now, which super lent to me so I could see if I could handle Turtledove. Short answer: Turtledove overwrites in an attempt to show off how clever and timely he is being, which makes it difficult to read, but his premise and execution of said premise plot-wise are very intriguing. Only about 100 pages in, so we'll see how my opinion changes as I work toward the end.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 18, 2010, 11:10:44 PM
Fragile Things: Props to Gaiman for changing things up for his short story works. Surprisingly enough, the American Gods novella was about third on my list for stories in the book, behind a Study of Emerald and Pages from a Journal. Onto Smoke and Mirrors next!

Edit: http://www.neilgaiman.com/mediafiles/exclusive/shortstories/emerald.pdf Read a study of emerald!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 19, 2010, 02:56:57 PM
Blood Bound (Patricia Briggs)

Wow.

So...this is the sequel to Moon Called.  The first 50 or so pages didn't impress me much (they suffered really badly from "Harry Potter recap syndrome").  I figured it had to get good eventually (modern hardboiled detective fiction is like the book equivalent to modern romantic comedy movies--consistently entertaining, if a little formulaic).  So...I figured I would end up enjoying it, but not as much as the first book.

I was wrong.  I enjoyed it more than the first book.  Sure, it was good at pulling my heartstrings, and the character relationships are getting more and more complex, which would be good reasons on their own.  Blood Bound, however, managed to do something that a book hasn't done to me since I was about 12: it made me scared (I actually woke up from a nightmare, and I almost never remember dreams).  I'm a little surprised, since I've been reading books in the "horror" genre regularly over the past few months, and haven't gotten afraid.  If anything, the books I'd been reading were about as frightening as an X-Men Comic.  Maybe the idea of a vampire used to be enough to frighten an audience, but I read something like Anne Rice and think "mystical beings with superpowers and their own culture.  Okay."

So...regardless, Blood Bound stands out to me.  I'm not entirely sure I can judge it objectively (maybe it just hit a lucky psychological note) but I'm impressed.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on August 20, 2010, 11:28:56 PM
Warbreaker - Addicting little read, seeing as I finished it in under 48 hours. It doesn't have a patch on Mistborn, but it was fun enough.

The book has some fun with the themes it explores. I really liked the exploration of faith, religion, and tolerance, seen through Lightsong's attitudes and those of his priest, Vivenna and Siri's beliefs/prejudices, that one scene where Jewels actually talks, and various others.

The two princesses and their parallel stories were done quite well. Siri's was fairly stock, but still quite an enjoyable read, and the God King caught me off guard a bit because I was expecting something more like the Final Emperor. Whoops. Vivenna is probably the real show-stealer, though; she had a lot of character depth, and I really liked how the book explored her own strengths and weaknesses, and at times made you question which was which. Nobility vs. arrogance, idealism vs. pragmatism, her ability to judge characters and her being manipulated, etc.

I enjoyed reading Lightsong's chapters whenever they came about, and they were helpful for exploring the faith/gods theme, but their overall contribution to the story felt far less important. Lightsong himself at least is a sarcastic devil after my own heart.

Denth plot twist was terrific, totally caught me off guard. I called most of the other key plot twists (and a few which didn't happen). In hindsight I should have, but it was fairly masterfully done.

Didn't like Vasher at all. For a while he just feels like Kelsier mark 2 (pragmatic yet powerful magic user with a mysterious past), which isn't a good thing despite the fact that I like Kelsier. Late he gets quite insufferable as he just godmodes it up for the last arc of the book. Oh yeah he's also a genius scholar who already saved the world once and an amazing swordsman/awakener with a sword that kills anyone evil and oh yeah he has the perfect key to solving the Lifeless Army problem since he had a BETTER one all along! Whatthefuckever. (I'll grant that he did have a cool way to kill Denth, but still.) The whole scholars plot thread felt like a waste of space.

Pahn Kahl stuff in the ending really fell flat, too. I think for that to have worked, Sanderson needed to build up the Pahn Kahl/Bluefingers and their feelings towards Hallendren and Idris. As is it sort of felt like it came out of nowhere. Maybe a reread would help, there, but it's not a terribly convincing revenge plot regardless.

Book lacked a denouement almost entirely, which sucked. It's somewhat a product of the rushed ending - I felt a pang of worry when I was about 100 pages from the end and realised that this was a standalone novel, and this was pretty much borne out - but it's still frustrating. We literally never get to see King Dedelin again after the start of the book, which is a shame, and there was hardly any interaction between the two sisters after all that buildup. A bit of a waste.

Magic system was fairly uninteresting as far as actually using it for awakening went (and Sanderson seemed to realise this, he didn't use it much), although I liked its thelogical/sociological impact on the world and thought that was explored nicely.


I should probably track down Elantris at some point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 21, 2010, 01:27:12 PM
*Smack* for comparing Vasher to Kelsier in any way.  Other than the very, very beginning, they have nothing really in common. Kelsier even had more interaction with people and the world in the prologue.

Other than that, hard to disagree with that writeup.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on August 22, 2010, 06:00:21 AM
Anansi Boys- Reminds me of Pratchett.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 22, 2010, 06:04:46 AM
So books are totally better when you go to a reading/signing.

Shades of Milk and Honey's author, Mary Robinette Kowal, was in SF tonight. I went and dragged Andrew along, and it was great. She's still relatively new -- short story author, and this is her novel debut -- so it was a fairly quiet and intimate affair. I got her to sign my copy of her new book, and Andrew bought me a numbered, signed edition of her short story collection, Scenting the Darkness and Other Stories (149 of 500), and then we sat down to watch her read.

She read in her British accent, because that's what she did when she recorded her own audio book. It was terrific. Then she did a shadow play that is performed in the book itself (she's also a puppeteer), and it was hilarious. And she was very fun, and gracious, and I really enjoyed the whole thing.

So yeah.

Woot.

I should also mention that they had a bar at the event, and the bartender crafted a drink especially for the book, called Shadw of Milk and Honey. It was Velvet Falernum filled with champagne and a splash of lime juice, topped by a cherry. Delicious.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on August 22, 2010, 06:23:44 AM
So books are totally better when you go to a reading/signing.

Shades of Milk and Honey's author, Mary Robinette Kowal, was in SF tonight. I went and dragged Andrew along, and it was great. She's still relatively new -- short story author, and this is her novel debut -- so it was a fairly quiet and intimate affair. I got her to sign my copy of her new book, and Andrew bought me a numbered, signed edition of her short story collection, Scenting the Darkness and Other Stories (149 of 500), and then we sat down to watch her read.

She read in her British accent, because that's what she did when she recorded her own audio book. It was terrific. Then she did a shadow play that is performed in the book itself (she's also a puppeteer), and it was hilarious. And she was very fun, and gracious, and I really enjoyed the whole thing.

So yeah.

Woot.

I should also mention that they had a bar at the event, and the bartender crafted a drink especially for the book, called Shadw of Milk and Honey. It was Velvet Falernum filled with champagne and a splash of lime juice, topped by a cherry. Delicious.

Man, I'm so jealous I think I am literally turning green.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 22, 2010, 06:49:20 AM
*Smack* for comparing Vasher to Kelsier in any way.  Other than the very, very beginning, they have nothing really in common.

Definite seconding on this!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 23, 2010, 04:30:49 AM
Krondor the Betrayal- Lol. Just...no, just lol. Of all the authors to have write a game, go for the one who probably had his story unraveling so horribly in the end in such ridiculous fashion. Which...well, guess what the book does! First half is decent, albeit nothing overly special; last half...well, okay, it wasn't the spectular explosion that was present in the first series, but that whole mind-sharing plot thread that basically allowed the writer to super-power one character non-sensically was pretty bad.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 23, 2010, 04:32:10 AM
I never read the second half! I kinda liked the first half.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 23, 2010, 04:37:39 AM
Didn't like the first half enough to read the second half though!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Yoshiken on August 23, 2010, 05:02:11 PM
I'll admit, I'm not much of a reader. I've read all of, like, 3 books in the last 7-8 years. That said, it's a damn awesome trilogy. >.>
Finished the last in The First Law trilogy last night, Last Argument of Kings. Disappointing ending, but I couldn't really see another way for it to feasibly end. Definitely room for more sequels, which'd be nice. The first two books are much, MUCH better, although some little surprises in the third kept it interesting.
In the first two, the focal character changes each chapter - Logen, Jezal, Glokta, West... By the third book, it's every fucking paragraph, and that can get annoying at times, but is generally done well. All of the scenarios are different, yet somehow manage to mostly stay interesting and it keeps a nice flow throughout, although one scenario just bored me completely. Probably the writing style, since each character had their own way of writing.
Definitely a dark trilogy, but a damn good read.

I'll probably try to get hold of Best Served Cold sometime soon. It's another book by Joe Abercrombie, set in a different world with different characters... although the preview at the end of Last Argument of Kings makes it look like pretty much the same thing again. Might be a while before I consider paying decent money for that. >.>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on August 23, 2010, 06:38:08 PM
*Smack* for comparing Vasher to Kelsier in any way.  Other than the very, very beginning, they have nothing really in common.

Definite seconding on this!

(veiled spoilers for Sanderson novels)

Do you guys really not see it? I'm not saying this to insult or praise either character (I have vastly different opinions on them, after all!) but I thought the resemblence was quite striking. Both characters serve as our introduction to the magic system in practice, both later explain the system to the magic-learning female (co-)main, both have early scenes in which they are infiltrating strongholds of the establishment, both are initially shown to be rather morally ambiguous (somewhat hearltlessly killing some people who get in their way). I have no idea how you don't notice the resemblance if you've seen both.

Now, where the characters end up going from there is quite different of course, but that was never my point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 24, 2010, 04:47:54 AM
Wait so let me get this right, you are saying that two characters that you are alleging are similar share similar plot functions and that a newish author may have used this in a previous book and later reused it in a slightly more refined manner?

You sir are a rakish cad and I will not stand for these kinds of accusations being made.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on August 24, 2010, 04:59:08 AM
Finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings this week. Didn't get but a few chapters into Game of Thrones until my trip home from DL-Con, but I ended up doing nearly nothing but reading it the entire time and marched right out to buy the sequel, which I've read over the last couple days. Great stuff, but a slog none-the-less. One or two of the plot threads at the end of CoK left me just sort of groaning (Theon). Hope we haven't seen the last of Davos though. Everyone loves Onion Knights! Danaerys seemed almost tacked on in CoK though. Hopefully it pays off in good time. Enjoying pretty much everything else though.

I'll probably get Storm of Swords tomorrow after class.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 24, 2010, 06:11:43 AM
A little over halfway through Ruled Britannica. Then I've got the Mars trilogy to read so I can send it along to mc, then I've got Counting Up, Counting Down (Turtledove shorts). Then (whenever "then" is) I have Way of Kings, and the next WoT book.

At some point in there, when I'm in between books or feeling less inclined to fiction, I'm breaking away from fiction for a time and hunkering down to study for the GRE and the Literature GRE.

Argh, tests.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 24, 2010, 06:21:59 AM
I'll admit, I'm not much of a reader. I've read all of, like, 3 books in the last 7-8 years. That said, it's a damn awesome trilogy. >.>
Finished the last in The First Law trilogy last night, Last Argument of Kings. Disappointing ending, but I couldn't really see another way for it to feasibly end. Definitely room for more sequels, which'd be nice. The first two books are much, MUCH better, although some little surprises in the third kept it interesting.
In the first two, the focal character changes each chapter - Logen, Jezal, Glokta, West... By the third book, it's every fucking paragraph, and that can get annoying at times, but is generally done well. All of the scenarios are different, yet somehow manage to mostly stay interesting and it keeps a nice flow throughout, although one scenario just bored me completely. Probably the writing style, since each character had their own way of writing.
Definitely a dark trilogy, but a damn good read.

This was the only series you've read in the last 7-8 years? What specifically made you pick up this series? I read it...about 6 months ago. Interesting early foray (as noted, I think Grefter would like it. Or maybe Grefter would just really like Glotka), along it took a while to get rolling. Not really sure how much of an opening there would be a sequel just because...well, the author randomly decided to chuck out magic at the end, and it seems like without that, the odds were a bit overwhelming! But I suppose there is room for one, just hard to imagine it working all that well. I'd assume that West was the character/scenario that bored you?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on August 24, 2010, 07:17:31 AM
Finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings this week. Didn't get but a few chapters into Game of Thrones until my trip home from DL-Con, but I ended up doing nearly nothing but reading it the entire time and marched right out to buy the sequel, which I've read over the last couple days. Great stuff, but a slog none-the-less. One or two of the plot threads at the end of CoK left me just sort of groaning (Theon). Hope we haven't seen the last of Davos though. Everyone loves Onion Knights! Danaerys seemed almost tacked on in CoK though. Hopefully it pays off in good time. Enjoying pretty much everything else though.

I'll probably get Storm of Swords tomorrow after class.

A recommendation:  Read Storm of Swords.  It's the best in the series as far as I recall (it's been a while).  Then, don't read A Feast for Crows until the next book looks like it's coming out.  Here's why:  Feast of Crows and... Dance of Dragons? Whatever were originally supposed to be one book, but that wasn't working out so Martin split the Point of View chapters between the books.  So some characters' stories end up in FoC, the others' in DoD.  The result is very disappointing considering DoD hasn't been announced after 4 years, and FoC is distinctly lacking in Tyrion and Davos.  I'm positive that waiting for the next book to be out will make FfC a lot less disappointing than it was for me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Yoshiken on August 24, 2010, 11:45:25 AM
This was the only series you've read in the last 7-8 years? What specifically made you pick up this series? I read it...about 6 months ago. Interesting early foray (as noted, I think Grefter would like it. Or maybe Grefter would just really like Glotka), along it took a while to get rolling. Not really sure how much of an opening there would be a sequel just because...well, the author randomly decided to chuck out magic at the end, and it seems like without that, the odds were a bit overwhelming! But I suppose there is room for one, just hard to imagine it working all that well. I'd assume that West was the character/scenario that bored you?
I picked up the first a few years back because I was on holiday and bored and it looked interesting, simple as that. I recently got hold of the other two, which I've wanted for a while 'cause I loved the first.
Glokta is amazing, and definitely a Gref-style character, yeah. His writing style was brilliant - I loved the little comments throughout, and some of the recurring comments were good. Body found floating in docks...
The one that bored me was Dogman, actually. I liked West as a character, and his scenarios were usually varied, at least. Dogman didn't seem to have much of a personality, and it eventually came down to him complaining about the situation they were in in every. damn. chapter.
Spoilers: For sequel strength, I mostly mean that... well, nothing was completely resolved. Logen ends in pretty much the situation he started in, unconscious in the water, Glokta and Jezal have taken the places of the leaders before them, and Pike (who was another twist I loved in the end) could very easily take Glokta's old place. Ferro's gone off battling again, Black Dow could very easily take Bethod's place...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 24, 2010, 02:33:33 PM
Smoke and Mirrors: Gaiman's earlier collection of short stories. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and some of the stories (The one about the Muse posing in Penthouse and the intro story about the wedding story) were quite good. It's still inferior to Fragile Things, but no shame in that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 25, 2010, 12:24:04 AM
The Da-Da-De-Da-Da Code by Robert Rankin - Robert Ranking writing about music, of course I enjoyed it  immensely.  Has its own soundtrack, should download it.

Not really a quintessential Rankin book or anything, but good for a fan.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on August 25, 2010, 03:18:39 AM
Smoke and Mirrors: Gaiman's earlier collection of short stories. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and some of the stories (The one about the Muse posing in Penthouse and the intro story about the wedding story) were quite good. It's still inferior to Fragile Things, but no shame in that.

And what did you think about Glass and Apples?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 25, 2010, 04:00:32 AM
Interesting twist on the fable, if a bit on the brutal side. Ouch to the description of the King's body after his death.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 25, 2010, 07:04:50 PM
Picture of Dorian Gray. I read it at work, in between waiting for lists to process, since it's part of the Gutenberg Project and therefore free and in HTML form.

I enjoy the dandies. Oscar Wilde had fantastic plays -- the one that comes to mind easily is The Importance of Being Earnest -- and a lot of what makes his plays fantastic is what makes this lone novel of his great.

This one falls prey to the same stylistic choices most Victorian writing does, in that it spends an inordinate amount of time in narrative philosophizing. Sometimes this is well executed; there are a number of oft-quoted witticisms to be found here ("A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." "Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing." To be in love is to surpass one's self.").

So: I enjoyed it. I'm glad I got around to finally reading it. It's one of those classics I kept meaning to read, but never got around to. Other books on this list: Metamorphosis, War and Peace, Paradise Lost (for real this time), The Satyricon, Faust (again), The Divine Comedy (again - and in Italian), more of Shakespeare's plays...

Yeah. I've got plenty to do in the next couple months.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 26, 2010, 04:49:21 PM
Finished Ruled Britannica. Everything that bothered me about this book would prevent me from reading Turtledove's other fiction, at least those bits based in history other than the periods I'm interested in. Basically, his adherence to history can be cumbersome: it was difficult to get into the dialogue because it was "Elizabethan-y," and there was an awful lot of detail that did jack for the plot as a whole. This could easily have been a much shorter, much tighter book, and would have been better for it.

That said, he did a great job writing an alternate history without unnecessarily bending the historical figures to it. This did cause problems when his homage turned to pastiche (I'm looking at you, Womanizer Lope and Coward Shakespeare and Carouser Kit). Luckily, he wrote characters that were entertaining to follow nonetheless.

Started Red Mars. Only a few pages in, but I'm already liking it. Excellent!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 26, 2010, 07:01:46 PM
Soulless - Gail Carriger

How to describe it?  The book's cover says "a tale of vampires, werewolves, and parasols".  It's set in 19th century polite English culture.  Starring a heroine who considers her Italian heritage to be much more scandalous than the fact that she has no soul.  Vampires will attack her, and she'll respond with "I daresay that was rather rude of you" and then smack them upside the head with her weighted parasol.  The language (for both description and dialogue) feels straight out of a Jane Austen novel.  The content is anything but (trying its hardest to create hilarious contrasts with polite Victorian English culture and show us how the characters react).

Overall, I definitely enjoyed it.  Hard to take it seriously on any level, and the novelty does wear off to a degree, but it remained fairly entertaining throughout.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 26, 2010, 07:29:36 PM
I'm glad someone read that. I've kept seeing it pop up, and I wondered if it would be worth a read. From what you say, looks like something I might pick up if it goes on sale or I can borrow it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 26, 2010, 09:58:00 PM
Sale?  It costs, what, $7 new; what price are you holding out for?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 26, 2010, 10:00:09 PM
Maaaan $7 new?  Stupid America and you stupid cheap books.  I think next year maybe I should only pack 4 sets of clothes and 2 pairs of shoes so I can fill up my suitcase with books and CDs instead of clothes.  Edit - And shoes.

Edit 2 - Oh yeah books

Boneshaker - Alright start, willpower to read now that I am back home and have my PC to fiddle with is low though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 26, 2010, 10:04:22 PM
$7? Hrm. I thought it was $16. And yes, that's not a shockingly high price, but you should see my bookshelves. :( (Also, my wallet, but never mind that.)

Maybe I'll just wait until I can library it.

Edit: $7.99, so a mass market book. Curious. I thought it was larger format.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 26, 2010, 10:31:06 PM
$7? Hrm. I thought it was $16.

http://www.amazon.com/Soulless-Parasol-Protectorate-Gail-Carriger/dp/0316056634

$8, it looks like.  ($7.99 MSRP).  (With some vendors selling for $4, but Amazon Shipping counteracts that I'm sure).

Quote
Maybe I'll just wait until I can library it.

Fair.

I can totally see being thrifty to save $8.  I more raise an eyebrow at waiting for say, a 30%-off sale and thus only saving $2 (cause $2 is like...the price of bus fare, so can be saved by not waiting for the sale and taking one less trip to the book store instead).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 26, 2010, 10:33:11 PM
There's no point in waiting for a sale on a MMPB - I've never seen it happen. Bookstores get more just remaindering the things than they do clearance-ing them. I just thought it was one of those larger format books with the pretty paper which, while nice, are stupidly expensive for what they are (the $16-20 range).

Though, if it's only in paperback, waiting to library it might also be futile. I might just have to suck it up and pay the $8. GASP.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 27, 2010, 01:05:10 PM
Hm, so I've always suspected that my opinion of RPGs is directly influenced by what RPG I played immediately before (if I played an awesome game before, the next game I play seems unspectacular).  Turns out this phenomenon extends to books as well.

I should have taken a clue when, right after reading Blood Bound (which seriously impressed me) I read Soulless and thought "yeah, that was pretty good I guess".  The next book I have on order is taking a while to arrive, so I began rereading Twilight 1 again (I'm collecting quotes for...nefarious uses).  Oh god, Soulless crushes Twilight 1.  Crushes.

Current impressions:

Mercy Thompson series (2 books read) > Parasol Protectorate series (1 book read) > Twilight Series (4 books read) > Sookie Stackhouse series (2 books read) > Vampire Chronicles (4 books read)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on August 28, 2010, 02:43:03 AM
The next book I have on order is taking a while to arrive, so I began rereading Twilight 1 again (I'm collecting quotes for...nefarious uses).  Oh god, Soulless crushes Twilight 1.  Crushes.

/me stares blankly at MC.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 30, 2010, 07:17:28 AM
Mistborn –

Finished Book 1. Man, why didn’t anyone ever tell me to read this book!? *is shot in the face by Super*. Seriously, this is the first book in ages that has made me go back and read parts of it again right after I finished. Thumbs up and I'm really upset that I didn't bring Book 2.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on August 30, 2010, 07:30:53 AM
How odd, that you decided to start Mistborn around the time I finally managed to get my brother to read it.  (Granted, get him to read it went roughly like "Hey, do have anything that'd be good to read?" *Pulls Mistborn off the very convenient access shelf and hands it to him*)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 30, 2010, 07:53:30 AM
Sweet. That way I can talk about it at length when we meet next! ^.^
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 30, 2010, 12:00:32 PM
If I had to strangle or shoot everyone who didn't read Mistborn as soon as I recommended it, I'd have to kill everyone in the group besides CT/Dhyer/LD.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Taishyr on August 30, 2010, 12:15:40 PM
Well, I could have read it, but I likely would've gotten 20 or so paragraphs in before realizing I was totally failing at paying attention to it and put it back, soooooo

uh, right, books. Um, been trying to read a series by Stephen R. Donaldson (not sure if it has a name, friend tossed 'em at me) but attention span, lol, the usual.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 30, 2010, 02:06:41 PM
Also, on a random note, Sanderson's first major in university being Chemistry? Least shocking thing ever after reading Mistborn. Maybe that's why I like it so much. >_>;;;
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 30, 2010, 02:10:32 PM
Iron Kissed - Patricia Briggs

Not what I expected at all.  I suppose I assume anything within the detective genre is going to be formulaic.  Iron Kissed does a very good job of being its own book, and not retreading subjects and themes covered in the first two books.  Part of this is a bit of a gimme--Moon Called focused more on werewolves, Blood Bound focused more on vampires, Iron Kissed focused on the Fae.  But the themes and story structure differ as well as the subject matter.  Didn't impact me as much as Blood Bound, but I may also have had unrealistically high expectations.  Certainly good, anyhow.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 30, 2010, 08:38:15 PM
uh, right, books. Um, been trying to read a series by Stephen R. Donaldson (not sure if it has a name, friend tossed 'em at me) but attention span, lol, the usual.

Which one? I tolerated his sci-fi series but couldn't gt more than seventy-five pages into Thomas Covenant. Donaldson is unrelentingly vicious towards his own characters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on August 30, 2010, 08:41:13 PM
Oh God, Thomas Covenant. I tried three times to read Lord Foul's Bane and couldn't.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 31, 2010, 09:04:54 AM
Didn't like the first half enough to read the second half though!

That applies to a lot of books for me! If I read a second half of a book it is a feat.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 31, 2010, 02:28:25 PM
Hacking through The Great Hunt right now. I like the beginning of the book a lot, very action-packed. However, I sense travel in the future! I certainly hope we don't encounter a fight where I will have to skip read through pages of boring fight scenes!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 01, 2010, 01:16:56 PM
So like a good Ciato I promised myself that I'd go to bed at like 1 a.m. in an attempt to try to recreate good sleeping patterns. What started as one hour of reading the Great Hunt before bed turned into a four hour, let's power through this book ordeal! I skipped anything to do with the ship people because it bored me, and half-skipped the two chapters where Egwene and bitch-whore (I can't spell her name) are dragged to the Way. Something exciting is happening in the Way and you are turning me to this bullcrap?

Good book, way better than Book 1, actually successfully captivatd my interest throughout aside from the parts I just complained about. After Mat stopped being a total bitch and got back to being a snarky, amusing bastard I was happy. I like all the main characters well enough except bitch-whore, and Rand in particular is turning out to be quite fun. I'm ready for some Mat POV time.

Not as good as Mistborn, though! I'm not sure if this will displease or make Super happy! It just feels like there is less character development in two books for anyone than Vin had in one, which is disappointing. Rand... definitely has some, at least! I think the Great Hunt has better plot but Mistborn has better characters. I just care about one thing more than the other!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 01, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
If I had to strangle or shoot everyone who didn't read Mistborn as soon as I recommended it, I'd have to kill everyone in the group besides CT/Dhyer/LD.

Of course not! My "Read mistborn" random chat lines existed months before yours did! (Although...with about 1% of the alacrity or consistency!)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 06, 2010, 01:40:52 AM
Mistborn: Finished Book 2. I will talk more about the series when I finish book 3, but good stuff. I've read the first ten chapters of Book 3. SPOILERS of the end of book 2.

From the middle of Book 2 to the beginning of Book 3, my estimation of Elend's survival chances go from about 95% to about 5-10%. I actually hope he dies because I think it rounds out the character better if they do the right things with his death. I'll explain this more later if I finish the book and I see if my ideas materialize.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on September 06, 2010, 04:25:12 AM
Read the Suikoden III manga.  It was very good - much better than the actual game.  Same plot, just told in a cohesive fashion instead of the badly done multiple viewpoints.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Yoshiken on September 06, 2010, 04:31:53 AM
Oh, I was told the two were pretty different. Yeah, I loved the S3 manga, although this is from someone who's not had a chance to actually play S3.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 06, 2010, 08:12:03 PM
Finished Hero of Ages! I'm still sorting out my opinion on the book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 06, 2010, 08:38:52 PM
Assassin's apprentice: About a third of the way in. It has lived up to the hype so far- very engrossing coming of age story.

Edit: Finished. Good book all around.  Tightly told story about a bastard child who goes unloved by almost all his family and everyone he knows, except for an old solider and someone teaching him how to kill. Hobbs does an excellent job painting the details of the land and area the story's set in.  Can't wait to get my hands on the next book- the story only really resolves one thread, there is plenty more of that world to explore. This is pretty straightforward compared to what I'm used to from fantasy authors of late, but you know what? Not going to complain, it was a compelling read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 07, 2010, 12:34:47 PM
Unloved?  I think that is a bit bleak a view of Fitz' life.  He is just unwanted and unnecessary.  He is an uncomfortable circumstance.  Wait for it, you will find that far more of the problem in Fitz' life are of his own creation than the first book will suggest.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 07, 2010, 09:24:00 PM
Mistborn series rant! Spoilers for the entire series abound.



Top 5 favorite scenes in the series:

5. I can’t decide on a fight scene to put on here but a lot of them are cinematically quite good. Shan/Vin is quite good.
4. Elend and Vin talking about the skaa murdering that the nobility does after having sex with skaa women. “How many girls have you murdered, Elend Venture?”
3. Elend killing Jastes. First of all, holy shit did Jastes have it coming. I think it solidifies the moment in the plot where Elend decides to stop hiding behind all the philosophy and the books and to just do what is needed and just.
2. The Death of the Survivor. Just a very chilling scene; I like how he rallies people around him and does it in a ridiculously open place. Just emphasizes what a flair for the dramatic and how much of a Messiah complex the dude has.
1. Vin/Kelsier scene where Vin tells Kelsier that he lives like a nobleman, not a skaa. I felt like it was very deserved and really needed to solidify that Kelsier –was- questioned by his followers. Nothing else in the series really measures up to it in emotion.


My order of the books is 1 > 2 > 3.  I think 1 is quite a bit better than 2 which is decently better than 3. I think 1 is a complete book – has great fight scenes, great character building, a well-defined threat to fight, and the innocent romance is refreshingly awkward. The end is quite satisfying (which is one thing 2 and 3 both fail at) and it has a lot of impactful scenes. I adore Kelsier because he’s such a deliciously arrogant and overzealous bastard. I think 2 has a lot less action and a lot more politics, which is fine, but I feel like the presence of Kelsier is missed. 2 builds up tension pretty well as well, and the romance stuff again is great. The character work is good – I like Sazed, Elend, Vin, Tindywl, Straff, Zane, etc. The biggest thing I am going to pan 2 for is the ending. The ending sucks sucks sucks and I feel like the end of book 2 and the beginning of book 3 is the worst stretch in the series. It is a fantasy copout to make the impotent main character useful, but I feel like his incompetence in a fight and normalness is what makes him different than most of the other people in the crew, and just randomly giving him special powers is really fucking stupid. I do understand why they did it for three reasons (make Elend less in need of babysitting, make him a foil to LR, and show what the Well of Ascension did just in case you’re a little slow on the uptake) but bleh. Book 3 beginning suffers from this as well; yay god-mode bullcrap! I will rant more about this point in my character section – and believe me, I am going to bitch again about this there. >_>

Book 3… I like the Quellion stuff in theory, but between Spook’s boringness and Sazed’s emoliciousness, the character POVs could be better. I’d have liked to see Breeze POV there. The Elend/Vin stuff is pretty boring for a long time. I’m glad Elend expressed his own fears of his thinking becoming more and more Lord Ruler-like; I was getting the feeling that maybe they plain weren’t going to address that which would be really psyduck. Once you get the big plot reveals with Ruin the plot is pretty exciting; I liked watching everything unfold. I think pretty much from Elend’s LR lamenting scene to the chasing Ruin across the country I couldn’t stop reading; I was quite intrigued in how everything connected. I think after that the plot gets a little… weird and ethereal. I’m not sure what to think about the end. Weird is really the best way to describe it…

Characters! I’ll try to list them in order of appearance. Kinda.

Tresting: Haha, and I thought he’d be major. Lulz. Nice introduction.

Kelsier: A magnificent bastard. I absolutely adore Kelsier; he’s an interesting mix of a fun character, the ‘Jeigan’ of the story, and a total egomaniac with a Messiah complex. I think they do a fantastic job of making him flawed (overzealous enough to get himself almost killed a few times, hatred for all nobility, and the fact that he seems to enjoy being revered) and having the other characters be understandably disturbed by this. His death scene definitely punctuated the beginning of the end of the first book. I like how his legacy resonates – even in Book 3, he is influencing the world. Despite the fact that he’s only in one book he’s one of the most important characters in the series.

Vin: Vin is a really great character. She starts out as this meek, distrustful to a fault girl who is understandably paranoid about the world. Her courtship with Elend is ridiculously cute and she seems to enjoy it, kind of like a sixteen year old would! I find her very believable. In Book 2 she struggles a lot with her double life – she thinks Elend doesn’t really get her and Zane fuels this. You just have to be rooting for her by the end of Book 2. Book 3 she falls off despite having a lot of POV time (I feel like Vin’s POVs are very base and don’t have a lot of thoughts through most of it), and the stuff in the end of the book leaves me with mixed emotions. The most memorable thing about her in this book is the fact that ‘Reen’ in her head has always been Ruin. Great twist there.

Camon: Jerkface. He makes a decent antagonist for the beginning of the book. Gets what he deserves.

Dockson: Despite him being around quite a bit for two books, I find him just… unremarkable in every way. He’s the organizer or something, but not really great.

Breeze: Breeze, on the other hand, is awesome. He’s a bit of a slimeball at times and likes to use people to amuse himself, but he’s fun. I like the girl harassing him. Breeze POVs are always fun.

Hammond: Bounches off of Breeze really well and is just a really nice person. I think he offers the genuine niceness that the Kelsier crew really needs.

Clubs, Yeden: I have little read here.

Spook: I was fine/apathetic with him until they started giving him tons of POV in Book 3. Spook is just not an intriguing character; he seems like a much worse Vin, for lack of a better comparison? The highlight of his chapters was ‘Kelsier’s’ voice which drives him. I really like it.

Lord Ruler: I think the plot twist with him did take most of the intrigue out of him, but he’s not bad. His role in Book 3 is pretty cool.

Sazed: I’m pretty conflicted on Sazed. His emo in Book 3 is really bad, but I do like the concept of a character with a faith crisis.

Marsh: DEUS EX MARSH. He consistently shows up and does useful shit throughout the books and it’s kind of awesome.

OneSeur: A little douchey?

Elend: I’ve made very little secret that I absolutely adore Elend. He was my favorite character in Book 1; I love his defiant attitude and I think he’s a fun and charming guy. He’s a genuinely nice person in a world of douches. I think he and Vin’s romance is really fantastic and awkwardly believable. I like the scene where his friends try to talk to him about serious stuff and all he can think about is Valette. So cute. Book 2 he plays a more major role, and I think he’s quite fun again. He tries quite hard to be less of a terrible leader and it shows (I enjoy his slowly building self-confidence); I also like the building tension/love between he and Vin, and I really like the scene where he kills Jastes. It shows how he’s realized that he needs to embrace his responsibility. The end of Book 2 plot twist I think trivializes a lot of the tension between Elend the scholar and Vin the assassin, which I think is really unfortunate. Book 3 is… weird for him. I hate the way they deal with him in the beginning of Book 3, but I think the scene where he confronts his fears about becoming the Lord Ruler, and there are a couple of scenes that I like of his (the one with Telden is good, and I think him temporarily letting go of all the bullshit and making him realize that, yes, he can still be Elend the scholar is nice). His death scene is surprisingly honorable (I was afraid he’d be killed due to being a bad person). Overall I think he’s a great character but I think the Book 2 plot twist makes him a little too super-human, which is a big part of why I dislike the beginning of Book 3. Ah well. Whew, that was rather long!

Straff: Douchelord. I think he is unabashedly the most unsympathetic person in the series. Wowww. Between his lust for young young ladies, forming an army to stand against his own son, and sending his tortured child to the Pits (and trying to intentionally get his other son assassinated), he is just…so bad. I think he’s a great antagonist because you just can’t help but loathe him.

Jastes: I think Elfboy put Jastes best: “Sub-Charmles”. He’s fairly sympathetic in the first book; he helps Elend be more cautious, which is a good thing. Second book he is a sniffling piece of shit coward who hides behind an army of monsters who he can’t even control. I really like his death scene.

Telden: Hmmm. He’s overall not a very memorable character; in Book 1 he’s the ladies man of the noble group and I think that’s literally it. Book 3… I liked that another one of Elend’s old friends who WASN’T a psychotic pile of garbage talked to him. “So you become the Lord Ruler instead.” is refreshingly blunt and someone needed to say it. His second appearance in Book 3 is totally unmemorable.

Shan: Someone needed to play her role (to show Vin that court people are vicious) and the Mistborn fight is awesome.

Kliss: Not really a character, but pooor naïve Vin.

TenSoon: I really like TenSoon. In Book 2 he is a clever, manipulative bastard. In Book 3 he’s probably the best character, which is really random and awesome. I just really liked getting in his head and hearing about the interesting history of the kandra. He doesn’t have as much depth as the main three characters but he is possibly fourth/fifth overall?

Zane: Poor Zane. Knowing what ‘God’ is makes you feel really sorry for him. I like his fun defiance and he plays a nice foil to Vin.

Tindwyl: Frigid bitch, but she has a way of being right.

Alliane: Surprisingly nice and funny. Poor Breeze.

Perrod: Meh.

Cett: He’s a neat guy. Blunt blunt blunt. So much less of a douche than Straff, but a greedy bastard.

Quellion: A logical extension of what would probably happen post-Survivor. Not too interesting but not bad.

Beldre: Um…?

Yomen: Philosopher king and a pretty awesome dude. I like him a bit better than Cett.

Anyway, that’s all I really have to say. Great series, would read again. :)


EDIT: I lied. Another complaint about Book 3 is that... I feel like Book 1/Book 2 have a consistency in their world and rely less on the incorporeal bullshit. I think that's one reason I like the series so much.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 12, 2010, 05:02:28 AM
The Dragon Reborn - Overall a decent book when it wasn't going into Perrin POVs, but those existed way too often. Lack of Rand was sad and the end was an awful lot like the end of Book 2...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 12, 2010, 05:37:07 AM
Lookie what I got!

(http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/aideekay/Brandon%20Sanderson%20Signing%209-11-10/BrandonSandersonsigning9-11-10014.jpg)

Sanderson had a reading/signing at an SF/F bookstore in San Francisco, so I went. Whee~

From top, left to right: The Gathering Storm (Wheel of Time), signed; Hero of the Ages (Mistborn #3), signed; Well of Ascension (Mistborn #2), signed (signature shown); 'Way of Kings - Brandon Sanderson' gel bracelet (holding open pages of Well of Ascension); two copies of Way of Kings, signed and personalized; "Tai'shar Malkier!" bumpersticker (Tower of Midnight promo); "Sly as an Eelfinn" bumpersticker (ToM promo); "An Epic Book Requires An Epic Bookmark" oversized Way of Kings promo bookmark; Way of Kings promo drawstring sport bag.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on September 12, 2010, 02:36:41 PM
Congrats!

I hate you - die
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 13, 2010, 04:47:01 PM
So badass!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 14, 2010, 09:30:27 AM
Read the other two Krondor books. Man, those were scattered. Looked up on Amazon and this fool Feist has written like 12 more books in the same world?! I think he might actually have the claim for being the biggest milker (Which well...part of Krondor books were pretty atrocious and written solely for game tie-ins). I have 3 more books of his, but they appear....to be like 6 books out in terms of chronology. I'm thinking of actually just dropping him because something tells me that he may have a tendency to get repetitive later?

The Dark Tower- Read the first 2 books of this. Very split in terms of content, although both were enjoyable. I feel like Super said the series goes to shit later. May start looking at new authors, but that's always so chancey.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 14, 2010, 02:29:36 PM
The series is worth reading in spite of the unbelievable things King does wrong later on. How do you "Very split in terms of content", though? Books were uneven?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 16, 2010, 10:51:01 PM
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/thegreathunt

Short version: Sanderson posted one of the chapters from book 13 ahead of time on his website! But encoded. He put the codes in various copies of the way of kings (His latest novel), and had fans find them. The hunt finished today, with the final clue being located in Venice, Italy.


Edit: Royal Assassin finished! Now it's time for Assassin's quest.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 17, 2010, 04:53:36 AM
Read Red Mars. Am reading Green Mars.

They're really great. I was genuinely surprised about Red Mars being so enjoyable. I am okay with hard sci fi, but I tend to like it better in short formats. But I really liked Red Mars! I think the managing factor is how important the hard science is to understanding the story, the less the better. Red Mars is like this: undoubtedly you will enjoy it more if you really enjoy the scientific principals, but it's also a really great book about people.

That said, I'm kind of burnt out on "serious" stuff, and there's a lot of very sad moments in these books. I think I'm going to wrap up Green Mars, give Blue Mars shelf space, sending Red and Green to MC (hey, Met, PM me your address!) and starting Way of Kings.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on September 17, 2010, 05:07:04 AM
Read Red Mars. Am reading Green Mars.

They're really great. I was genuinely surprised about Red Mars being so enjoyable. I am okay with hard sci fi, but I tend to like it better in short formats. But I really liked Red Mars! I think the managing factor is how important the hard science is to understanding the story, the less the better. Red Mars is like this: undoubtedly you will enjoy it more if you really enjoy the scientific principals, but it's also a really great book about people.

That said, I'm kind of burnt out on "serious" stuff, and there's a lot of very sad moments in these books. I think I'm going to wrap up Green Mars, give Blue Mars shelf space, sending Red and Green to MC (hey, Met, PM me your address!) and starting Way of Kings.

You're forgetting OLD PEOPLE SEX
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 17, 2010, 06:12:44 AM
Shadow Rising: Finished. Best book in the series, everything but Perrin stuff was good, and even some of his stuff was decent at the end of the book, especially with Abell and Tam around. Favorite chapter is when the stuff happens at the tower. I liked super tyrant Rand and drunk Elayne and Mat being hanged. Perrin/Faile relationship stupid is the only real lowlight of the book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 17, 2010, 10:35:56 AM
They aren't that old yet, it is only middle aged people having sex.  Your parents still have sex, it isn't that much OLD PEOPLE SEX.

But yeah the second and third book are much less OH MY GOD ERGH SO MUCH BAD STUFF RELENTLESSLY HAPPENING, so if it helps there is that.  Still very serious books.  Glad you enjoyed it though, I cannot really put into words how well these books work for a Psychology majour with a minor in Sociology who has a ginormous nerd on for Physics though.  It is like they were written just for me and they were written when I was like 9.

Generally the rough idea of the science is fairly accurate, but they do fudge plenty of it and keep it light and easy enough for Humanities students to not lose their bottle (and met should note that it is based around 30 year old theory at this point, lots of stuff from the 80s in there because I know she is totally going to be more up to date on the real stuff than I am).

EDIT - YOU DIDN'T MENTION HIM EATING A ROCK CIATO YOU ARE DISAPPOINT
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 17, 2010, 03:20:29 PM
He eats a rock? I'm so confused.

Also, Fires of Heaven is probably the best book in the series. No Perrin!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 18, 2010, 12:31:52 AM
When he and Rand are making their way into Rhuidean he puts a small rock into his mouth, this is actually a technique for preventing your mouth drying out as it helps induce saliva glands and stuff.

It is an incredibly minor thing that has always made me laugh, Mat eats a rock.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 18, 2010, 12:55:58 AM
He doesn't actually eat it though. I was so disappointed. :(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 22, 2010, 09:18:19 PM
Unloved?  I think that is a bit bleak a view of Fitz' life.  He is just unwanted and unnecessary.  He is an uncomfortable circumstance.  Wait for it, you will find that far more of the problem in Fitz' life are of his own creation than the first book will suggest.

Book 1 definitely paints a bleak picture of Fitz's life, in spite of the book having a fairly positive tone overall.  Hard to argue with that after getting midway through book 3.

Anyway, Farseer series is good, everyone shoudl read them. I wouldn't put it on the level of mistborn, but it's really good fantasy that avoids a lot of the usual genre pitfalls.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 22, 2010, 10:15:36 PM
Fires of Heaven - About 100 pages in. Rand is turning into a douche^2.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on September 22, 2010, 10:19:22 PM
Nah.  As far as the series is concerned, Rand is still only hitting maybe a 1/10 on the Douchometer.  And we're talking in terms of Rand's character arc, not even him competing against the real douches.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 22, 2010, 10:26:11 PM
Wow, you're making me want to read more! I like douche!Rand. Possibly because I am a douche myself.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 24, 2010, 01:36:36 AM
Farseer series: Done. I'm a little disappointed by the very end of the books, but eh. Very good read overall.  Burrich's my favorite, Verity is good, as is the general cast.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on September 24, 2010, 02:16:59 AM
Elantris: Read this while in Oklahoma. Good stuff, if a bit by-the-numbers in some places. Definitely interested in picking up Mistborn at some point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 27, 2010, 09:08:28 AM
Middle of book 4 of the Dark Tower- Think I'm tabling this for a while. Really unfond of the following teenager section of the book/seeing teenage puppy love lead the main character around by the nose into idiocy. Not to say the story is bad, but it's a frustrating read when you already have a pretty decent idea how will it kind of all fall out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 27, 2010, 04:27:45 PM
Skim Mejis until shits starts happening there in that case; the end of the arc is a good read. Sadly, 90% of the book is a flashback- while the actual story is good, it moves pretty damn slowly and is King buying time because he has no idea where to take Roland's main story.

Edit: Read the final Atlantis book from turtledove. There is some lazy turtledove in here, but the basic concept is enjoyable enough that I can't complain too much.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 04, 2010, 12:02:49 AM
Kate Elliot- Cold Magic. Kate Elliot is generally fun, and this is no exception. Unlike the first book of her last trilogy, this feels like it gets off to a much more solid start. What I unfortunately didn't realize was that there wasn't actually a hardcover version, so the paperback version I bought that came out only a month ago was the first release and that the second book isn't anywhere near out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 04, 2010, 04:40:53 AM
Finishing Green Mars was a struggle - not because it's not a good book, just because I lost interest in science fiction in the middle of reading it. Liked it, like the way it ended, but felt a little overwhelmed with the insistence on science and politics. Did not enjoy it quite as much as Red Mars, but I loved Nirgal and his role.

Started and finished Way of Kings this week. Whee, 1000 pages of epic! I had read the first few preview chapters that were posted online prior to the release, and I wasn't terribly impressed. However, I figured since I'd paid $30+ for it and gotten it signed, I may as well read it, and, well... Yay! Glad I did.

Nothing really coherent to say about it right now (I'm goddamned exhausted today for some reason), but: you can tell it's Sanderson (characters, themes), but he's DEFINITELY toned down the Sanderson Avalanche. I can see why it will take 10 books to write, and I'm looking forward to it! The most interesting part is in the elements within it that mark it as part of the same universe as his other books, which is very cool.

I recommend that if you like Sanderson, you read this one. It's quite a commitment (I'm serious, it's about 1000 pages in hardcover), but worth it. He built another interesting world and another intriguing magic system.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 04, 2010, 08:55:57 AM
All Star Superman - Holy shit.  This really is as good as advertised.  It isn't exactly going to make me go out and buy and love Superman comics or anything, but I kind of understand where people who do enjoy it are coming from a bit better.

Quintum is toooootally Luthor though yeah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 04, 2010, 04:53:16 PM
I can't decide if I'm looking forward to the movie or dreading it. the book's still amazing, though. Especially the Clark vs. Luthor and Jimmy Olsen issues.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on October 04, 2010, 08:40:46 PM
All Star Superman - Holy shit.  This really is as good as advertised.

Grant Morrison, man.  Knows his shit.  Just picked up the first volume myself.  Impressive.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 05, 2010, 09:27:49 PM
Elantris - Pretty good. Not the best Sanderson novel by any stretch, but still an enjoyable read with some quite likable characters (in particular, I liked both Hrathen and Sarene, though if you didn't see the latter coming you really don't know my biases very well). Magic system is -not- up to Sanderson standards but fortunately it barely exists. The New Elantris sub-plot itself was quite well-done, Arelon stuff also good, etc. There are a few more twists than are really justified (it feels like just about -every- secondary character had some big drama-bomb secret, most not relevant to the main plot even) but really that's my biggest complaint.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on October 06, 2010, 05:24:57 AM
I Shall Wear Midnight- <Pterry> i aten't ded yet
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 06, 2010, 05:51:01 PM
Read Cry Wolf. It's book 2 in a romance series by Patricia Briggs that isn't the Mercy series. It's werewolves. It's a romance. Need I say more? (Yes? Okay. It was terrible, very cotton candy.) For the record, I still like werewolf stories, and I still hate romance, and I especially hate that werewolf stories are, lately, all romance.

Coming up... let's see. I have The Windup Girl, that one that won some awards this year. I have Robin McKinley's Sunshine. I have Tom Holt's Who's Afraid of Beowulf? I have Blue Mars. I can probably finish two or three of those by the time Towers of Midnight comes out (November 2), and also Side Jobs, the Dresden Files short collection that comes out October 26. And then there's that zombie story collection with something by Neil Gaiman that comes out October 16...

Still working on finding that job that pays me to read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 09, 2010, 10:39:59 PM
Way of kings got. Let's see how it is!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 09, 2010, 11:09:19 PM
Only now?! Despite what I said previously, I'm about 2/3 of the way through it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 10, 2010, 12:07:42 AM
That was my fault. Brandon Sanderson was here in SF so I got super's copy signed. Then I took forever to actually send it to him. <_<

Reading The Windup Girl now, and it's... interesting. It's one of those books you expect will go down in SF/F canon simply because of the way it's written. Does that make sense? It doesn't feel "genre." It's just... a book, with a background that takes some getting used to. It's not to say the background isn't interesting -- it's set in Thailand, in the near-ish future, dystopian -- just that it isn't what makes the story. And yet it's not character driven. It's... literary.

Anyway.

Still reading.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on October 10, 2010, 07:00:26 AM
Slogging through Cryptonomicon.  Slowly.  About 400 pages in and I'm still not sure what to think about it; the book keeps hinting at some sort of plot or tie-together, but doesn't really deliver, just keeps on with Vignettes About Things That Happen in People's Lives.  The prose is neither bad nor particularly enjoyable, though it does strike a nice balance of density. 

Plotwise... SPOILERS, the allies are going to win WW2!  So there is that, and Randy's story is... just terribly uninteresting so far, so eh.  And yet we are already up to Yamamoto's death in the war timeline but less than halfway through the book.  Hm. 

Obviously this all has been enough to keep me going on it so far, but I really expected... more, in general, from all the hype Stephenson's gotten, and in particular some payoff for all the crypto ramblings in this one beyond "crypto is cool if you are a wartime codebreaker or paranoid business mover and shaker!"  But there is a lot of book left so we'll see.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 13, 2010, 08:53:39 AM
The Way of Kings- This was fun! Starts out very slow paced, but the characters and setting are both generally well done. I just think that I think Sanderson's a competent enough writer where that I just feel I'd like most fantasy he'd write! Maybe it just because now I'm trying a Tad Williams book and despite liking his last two massive series, something on this one isn't connecting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on October 14, 2010, 09:06:02 AM
Finished Cryptonomicon.  The second half of the book is immensely better than the first half in terms of having things actually happen such that the reader not only pays attention but cares about what is going on, italicized to highlight the utter, utter lack of this in the novel's first half.  Unfortunately, it remains astoundingly poorly written, replacing the first half's lack of action with a sudden and quite abrupt lack of continuity or coherence.  A non-comprehensive list of offenses follows, there are spoilers but given the madcap nature of the book I don't care and neither should whoever reads this.

- 90% (if not more) of the important events in the book happen "offscreen," with POV segments constantly cutting out right before something interesting might happen, or starting right after something interesting has happened and proceeding as though the reader should already know what's going on, playing coy and maybe bothering to actually state that, say, a massive earthquake wiped out a character's house once in an offhand sentence several pages later.

- I am unconvinced that Neal Stephenson has ever had a meaningful platonic social interaction with a female human being, much less an interaction that might be construed as a romantic relationship.  Despite a number of female characters being important to the novel, not a single one of them gets a POV chapter.  Ever.  Women get a couple of POV paragraphs at most, and when these occur they always inhabit a strange space halfway between narration and the imagination of the current male focus.  This would not be offensive, or even particularly notable, were it not for the fact that all the women who do appear are portrayed as incapable, unintelligent harpies or baby factories.  Bitches and whores, to the bone.  Even Amy Shaftoe, who seems like a strong character at first, takes a sudden fall from competence the instant Randy takes a serious romantic interest in her and spends the latter two thirds or so of the novel doing absolutely nothing of consequence, being upstaged by her father (who inherits all of the badass ability she first displayed), and finally getting shot and having to be carried while every other (male) character around her fights back.  Most of it is displayed as willful incompetence, to boot.  I only watched Denpa Teki no Kanojo a week ago and already this has supplanted it as the most shockingly misogynist modern work I've encountered.

- Plot threads and characters are picked up and dropped like rocks in a labor camp, in a crescendo of turnabouts culminating in the ending.  What the hell happened to the Dentist?  He's a major antagonist and driving force throughout the book, he visits Randy in jail for reasons unknown, then poof, he's never heard from again and everyone somehow manages to just quit and walk away from that whole Epiphyte business!  But SUDDENLY, Andrew Loeb appears as a crazed maniac in the jungle!  Remember him?  No?  Probably for the better because if you do your brain will break even more trying to figure out why and how he wound up there.  What about the Sultan, or Kinakuta in general?  What happened to Bischoff and Rudy, did they make it?  Did Wing and Goto really never bother talking to each other about setting up some sort of joint venture?  Why does the entire book suddenly do a 180 and turn the focus to a search for this gold bunker, which IS hinted at and talked about and IS NOT AT ALL important in the first half of the book?  What exactly is Enoch Root's society, and for that matter who is he anyway?  Oh wait, he is actually a world-weary repentant immortal alchemist-deity appearing as a crossover from Stephenson's other novels like a bad White Wolf character.  I wish I was making that up but that is actually what he is.

- Prose techniques on the other hand are a little too consistent.  The entire book, cover to cover, is written in a monotone of drolly ironic narration, and employs the same devices over and over again.  Look, here comes an upbeat side character providing contrast to our grim, world-weary POV man!  One sentence to two pages later, upbeat side character is suddenly and arbitrarily killed, and the text provides a helpful zoom-in on how arbitrary, swift, and inevitably brutal the poor man's death is.  Just in case the reader hasn't quite gotten the WAR IS HELL thing jammed entirely down their throat yet, you know.  Also, any striking detail or event described in one or two sentences will inevitably resurface, while anything that takes pages to describe can be safely skipped as it will turn out to be of no importance whatsoever later on.  And then there's Stephenson's oh-so-random-it's-clearly-meaningful-and-deep method of suddenly breaking into ridiculously overdetailed description for no apparent reason, like the two pages taken to describe a human as a collection of fleshy sacs and chemicals, or the infamous Cap'n Crunch breakfast that puts Death Note's potato chips to shame.

This book is completely terrible.  It tries to be The Da Vinci Code and winds up as poorly articulated, contrived, misogynist WW2 fanfiction with a Marty Stu fantasy crossover cameo to put the icing on the cake of crap.  Dan Brown's writing is artistically superior to this, and that is a statement I had hoped never to make.  I am left with zero desire to read anything else by Stephenson and a sense of utter bewilderment.  Is there some sort of joke I am missing out on?  Is there a final part of the book encrypted somewhere that at least ties up some of the plot holes?  I just don't know what else to say.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on October 14, 2010, 02:18:05 PM
Nobody should start reading Stephenson with Cryptonomicon. That book is a concentrated mass not only of his own writing flaws, but new ones he'd apparently seen other people use and wanted to try out for himself, all combined with his (then-brand-new) hobby of writing three times as many words as any reader would actually care about.

What I'm trying to say is, Snow Crash still rules.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on October 17, 2010, 02:30:35 PM
Finished the Fruits Basket manga.   Sigggghhhhhhhh *romancegasm*

Starting Way of Kings.  It's quite enjoyable so far.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on October 23, 2010, 07:07:53 PM
Way of Kings finished.  Loved it.  I daresay I liked it better than Mistborn, which is high praise indeed.

Actually I do have one complaint:  the chapters ended.  No I don't want to read about Shallan, I want to read more Kaladin!  Wait, don't switch to Dalinar, this Shallan thing is interesting!  Gah, Kaladin already?  But I'm so engrossed in this bit about Dalinar!

So yeah, it's a story that you don't want to end.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 23, 2010, 07:24:43 PM
Yeah, that's always been my biggest problem with multi-perspective books. It's a good problem to have, sure -- for the author. The reader just gets frustrated. I think Sanderson handled it pretty well, though, as the toughest way to keep the reader going is to show them that things are still happening and NOT make them remember every little detail about where they last left off (or, gasp, make them turn back to the previous chapter because they can't remember why everyone's standing around looking serious!).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 04, 2010, 04:50:58 AM
Towers of Midnight- Done! Enjoyed it, but less than I enjoyed book 12.

Mega spoilers, absolutely do not read:

My problem is some this book is predicable. Some of the events (Berelain/Galad, Mat losing his eye, Moiraine's rescue, GRENDAEL KILLING ASMODEAN THANKS FOR COMPLETELY DRAWING THAT OUT WAY LONGER THAN NEEDED) have been so hinted at and foreshadowed that some of the impact was lost. There was also some rehashing with a twist- Nynaeve's testing in particular stands out there. Enough bitching, time to list favorite scenes. 

I'm also not sure what the fuck to make of new Rand.


Epilogue was pretty awesomse!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 04, 2010, 08:09:29 AM
None of that needed to be spoiler warninged, all been straight up told or hinted at for so long it doesn't matter or no one cares anymore.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 07, 2010, 07:14:37 PM
Finished Towers of Midnight.

It definitely has that "middle child" feel to it, considering its place as Book 2 of the three book final book (hah). None of the excitement and set-up of the first one, none of the finality of the last one. It was pretty much a space to tie up anything that needed to be resolved before they could move on to the final book.

That said, I did enjoy it! There were some characters I really didn't want to hear from anymore (Elayne, ugh), and some scenes and character PoVs which felt completely thrown in. The information divulged in them was useful, just the presentation left much to be desired.

This one felt so much like something Jordan wrote, both good and bad. I think Sanderson handles characters better (mostly), but Jordan's got this thing for convoluted plots and Xanatos gambits that really showed up here. There was plenty of meandering and moments where I stopped and thought, "Is this really necessary? Can I skip ahead?" (that's when I first noticed the Jordan-ness <_<), but overall it felt like a throwback to the bits and pieces that make Wheel of Time something I willingly slog through.

One more year and Robert Jordan's magnum opus is over. I feel pretty similar to how I felt when I read Harry Potter number 6 (SHUT UP, no one asked you - besides, I also just admitted I willingly read Wheel of Time, so you've got nothing). You've spent so much time with these characters and stories and all the speculation, and in one or two short years it's just going to be ... over. I mean, dude. Twenty years in the making. The guy died before he could see it out. That's pretty epic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 10, 2010, 06:39:18 AM
Towers of Midnight - Halfway through this. Better than I expected, honestly - the book jacket makes it sound like it'll be the most boring in the series. Probably because half of it talks about Perrin doing things that are dull retreads of plot arcs from literally 9 books ago. And, truth be told, whenever I read about Perrin in a wolf dream I do start wanting to skip pages. On the other hand, the scene with Elayne and Mat is one of the most hilarious in the series - those two have such a wrong chemistry it's great, Sanderson and/or Jordan clearly enjoys writing both. Generally I'm enjoying all the perspectives except Perrin's (and even then, Perrin's are spliced with those of Galad, which are surprisingly good) and those in Saldaea, which are weakly written and involve a character to whom we just have zero attachment.

Way too soon to say where it fits in the order of books, but I'm very glad I got my hands on it.

More spoilerful stuff:
Aw yeah more Graendal. I had zero problem with the "retcon" because I was suspicious that something like this is exactly what happened, it's just so -her-. I kinda get the feeling she's on borrowed time and will be gone by the end of the book, which is kind of a shame because outside maybe Moridin she's the only remaining Forsaken I feel a strong connection to, as well as the most threatening one to the good guys because she isn't a total moron like Dem or as powerless as Cyndane/Moggy.

Trying to puzzle out who the assassin in the white tower is... thinking it's Shiaine? Since Egwene's (and Min/Rand/Nynaeve's) chapters are clearly happening chronologically after Elayne's (and Mat's/Perrin's), and Shiaine did escape... rest does fit. The assassin doesn't seem to channel, is either a woman or a decidedly short man, is connected to Alviarin/the Black Ajah, and Shiaine one of the most notable Darkfriend assassins if my memory serves.

I loved the fight scene with Elayne solo versus the three Black Ajah members and Hanlon. Throwing the medallion copy at someone to disrupt her weaves = priceless. Also the best darkfriends are the ones who are on fire. Although Elayne has the shittiest luck with dealing with them, the one instant she chooses to interrogate Chesmal (loved this too, fun plan), her friends are executing a prison break? That's even crazier than what happened in Knife of Dreams. Oh well, looks like it made her less silly about Min's vision, which was a long time coming.

Also Mat's letter to Elayne. I swear, Sanderson is going to have me outright -liking- Mat at this rate. My world is crumbling! He does need to man up and open Verin's letter already, though.

Also MAJOR CHARACTERS ACTUALLY SEEKING EACH OTHER OUT AND TALKING TO EACH OTHER. Mat and Elayne kinda speaks to this, but also Gawyn and Elayne (-finally-), Rand and Egwene... these are all very overdue. Making the Light totally less screwed than it was before. Now if only Perrin would join this new trend, and fucking leave the Ghealdan area fucking finally for the first time since book fucking seven that would make me happy. Or in the words of Ciato, we could just have NO MORE PERRIN. That would also work.


Spoil on stuff from the second half and die, etc.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 10, 2010, 08:33:26 AM
So yeah you should end up liking him under Sanderson, it is a character type he writes well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 10, 2010, 04:39:10 PM
I seem to be in the minority here, so now I'm curious to hear from the people who read/have read Wheel of Time:

Who's your least favorite character? Why? Favorite, and why?

Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 10, 2010, 09:34:55 PM
Elfboy: *Blink* You really don't know who that assassin is for sure?

Favorite character? Mmm. Nynaeve for females. I love the humanity Nynaeve brings to both Rand for the later parts of the series, and her calling out the Aes Sedai on their usual bullshit. She grows up a lot during the series, but her core personality isn't warped much.  She just matures and comes to accept her fate as an Aes Sedai. Male character is Rand. Mat is great, but Rand is hands down the best character in the series when he gets camera time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 10, 2010, 09:45:49 PM
*smacks Super* Not an appropriate thing to say before I finished the book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AAA on November 10, 2010, 09:51:08 PM
I just finished Towers of Midnight, and I gotta say the second half blew me away. I mean, who could have guessed that Demandred was Olver? And Asmodean died of a broken heart? Incredible stuff.

But seriously I highly enjoyed the book. The Perrin stuff was way, way overdue. Jordan kept his character development in stasis far too long and the eventual conclusion there was highly satisfying. Mat's section was fun too, looking forward to whatever goes on there after that. Elayne sucks but what else is new. Other Female Character You Can Probably Guess But I'm Not Naming Because It's In The Second Half Entirely had a very interesting part, I really liked what they did there.

It's the second half of an almost self-contained trilogy, like Lady Door said, but I still feel like it had enough going on and plot threads being resolved that I never felt it got bogged down by being unable to have giant payoffs.

These two are easily the best quality out of the series we've seen for awhile, and the last book is probably going to rock my balls off.

If you really want to know, my favorite character would be Bela. It's about time we had a strong female presence in high fantasy.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 12, 2010, 07:48:10 AM
Response to Lady Door first:

-I'll say right away that, at base, I think the female mains have an edge on the male mains because they lack that ta'veren label. This means the universe bends less to make them always win, and it feels like they work a bit harder and experience more setbacks, and thus are actually more personally impressive, particularly Egwene and Elayne. I mean, have Mat or Perrin even been so much as held captive by their enemies? Granted, Rand has, and in general, Jordan has been more willing to let him make mistakes (unlike Perrin) and suffer for them (unlike Mat).

-That said, overall my favourite is Rand - he just has the most character depth. Good Rand exceeds the best of any other character, and he's an excellent character study of random man having that much responsibility thrust upon him and the immense stress it puts him under. Elayne makes a close battle for this spot, though; she's generally been the best thing about the books since they left their first major peak around books 4-5, to me, I dig political arcs in fantasy and find her thought processes very amusing and relatable, and I love her ability to get shit done, as I touched on. Huge fan of book 12 Egwene for obvious reasons, and she's solid outside that, so also a favourite although the clear #3 to me overall.

-Least favourite... used to be Mat, because he does all sorts of just idiotic shit and never seems to actually pay for it. I also find him quite whiny in his internal monologue, although this is probably just me finding the personality type alien. However, in recent books I've warmed to Mat quite a bit; first Tuon made him a lot more fun, and in general I think Sanderson writes him better than Jordan did, with humour that works better for me. These days, thus, the least favourite is definitely Perrin. I kinda like him at base but his plot arc has been interminable ever since book 7. See my previous comments. As well as some forthcoming ones in the spoilertags. <_<

-Nynaeve's sort of in the in-between category for me, though I like her well enough. I'd probably have a stronger opinion of her if she'd done more since book... 7 or so? It feels like she's been relegated to more of a secondary role compared to the other five. Still, I do find myself largely nodding with Super's comments, she just appeals to me less personally.


Towers of Midnights - Done!

Good, although a bit of a mess at points. It's a step back from the previous two books mainly due to this, which is a shame because there's some really excellent stuff in there.


Oh, two things to get out of the way:

1. Okay, yeah, my bad on that assassin thing. I'd honestly thought those bloodknives died much too quickly to still be around, but the former damane Gawyn talks to does note they can survive weeks, so eh, sure.

2. DAMNIT MAT WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU OPEN THAT LETTER. *headdesk*


Anyway...

The good!

MAJOR CHARACTERS INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER. Yes, by far the best part of the book to me, almost every scene where major characters met was memorable. Many of these were totally overdue. Elayne/Mat remains possibly my favourite scene in the book, but the others get hype too, both when they agree with each other and when they're practically enemies.

Elayne chapters were awesome as expected. I was afraid she'd have a smaller role in this book but instead she was second only to Perrin for screentime, with a mix from her own perspective and from those of Mat, Perrin/Faile, and Egwene/Gawyn. She intersects with all the other main stories in the book (shouldn't have to explain why I like this!), her interactions with them are great, and as always I dig the political side of her stories. Already commented on some of her notable scenes in my previous post.

Mat's chapters, despite my dread, were very solid. His interactions with Elayne, the fight with the gholam (the bit where he pulls out the medallion copies? Badass), the general humour. Only Mat chapters not really up to snuff were the Tower of Ghenjei, which at least managed to not be terrible, although a little hard to really care about given how little we actually know about the "villains" there, who have been irrelevant for 8 books now. I still feel nothing for Noal, also. Waste of space.

Egwene/Gawyn didn't get much but it was pretty good if not outstanding. I did like her scene with the Hall, though. Good stuff, very reminiscent of her book 12 awesome. Gawyn has just... managed to stop being an emo brat, seeing him grow up is good. He's never going to be an all-time favourite, but he's a far cry from "one of the worst characters in the series" that I used to think of him as.

The other brother, Galad got rounded out into a decent character. I liked how he stayed true to his ideals but saw the decency of Perrin through logic, and not ta'veren bullshit, despite ta'veren bullshit flying all around Perrin in this book. Great to see the whitecloak perspective actually done some justice since overall they're such goobers. Loved the theme of Perrin and Galad of the importance of keeping those who would fight in the Last Battle alive to do so.

Stuff gets tied up, again. Three books in a row where I can say that, though, so I'm no longer giving too many points, but it's something it has over 7/8/10 nicely at least.

Aviendha chapters are interesting foreshadowing, going to be interested to see where the last book takes them. I assume that it's an avoidable "bad future" (the fact that Tuon lasts very little time as Empress hints at this) but yeah. Does little for Avi herself, though. Also, who was that random woman she ran into on the way to Rhuidean? That scene was very suspicious.

I'm surprised at just how much shit is going to be hitting the fan in the last book. Whether this is actually good or bad remains to be seen, since it'll need to be handled well. Trolloc invasion in Andor, Seanchan invasion of the White Tower, something in the Black Tower, something like ten notable villains still alive... hopefully this will leave time for a good resolution of Rand's battle itself!


Less good:

My biggest problem with the book is that it's just too darn cluttered. Things like Ituralde's PoV, the Black Tower stuff (since it wasn't resolved), Lan's chapters, and so on. At least, they didn't need 3-4 scenes each! There's literally over a hundred perspective changes in the book. This is probably a design decision to make things seem more hectic as the Last Battle approaches, but I find it more annoying as I have to continually readjust to different characters, some of which I don't care about at all! Put these little side slices in the prologue and epilogue where they belong, or the occasional chapter dedicated to them, don't just scatter them everywhere as a distraction from the mains. Also, Book 13 really isn't the time to introduce new, minor characters.

Some of the Perrin stuff. Specifically: Oh my god Slayer. No. What a terrible villain. Why the fuck did he get so much screentime. Why the fuck is he still ALIVE after all that, meaning there's probably more to come. Way, way too much Perrin stuff in general, though I liked parts of it certainly (anything involving the whitecloaks or politics) but did we really need chapter upon chapter of wolf dreams and Hopper and Slayer? GRAH. Mesaana got taken care of in a tidy amount of time so why couldn't this? Because some random wolf-killing T'A'R-adept mook is this fascinating an antagonist? Give me more Padan Fain or something.

Man I hate it when books barely have Rand, he's too important. He's potentially interesting now, but also kinda creepy. I found myself withholding judgement on him throughout the book and I'm still going to do so until after book 14, but I really hope there's more to him than wise, messianic godmoding left. Really disappointing after how good he was in book 12!

Super notes that the book is predictable in some of its major events, and yeah, it is. Those events aren't really the book's strong points though anyway, so it's not too big a deal.

I find it kinda annoying that all three surviving female forsaken are being subjagated by the main (male) villains. None of the male forsaken ever have to put up with this shit, they just get blown up. (Side note, Lanfear's chance to survive book 14 actually just rose to non-negligible. Still low, though!)

Rand (or Logain, I'm not picky) needs to go open a deathgate in Mazrim Taim's stomach already. Easily now tops the list of plotlines inexplicably not yet resolved, really surprised he lasted until the final book.


Overall... the book is probably around where Lord of Chaos is to me. Or maybe a bit closer to Winter's Heart, which is a bit higher? Thereabouts, somewhere in the middle. Definitely worse than 2/4/5/11/12, definitely better than 1/3/7/8/10.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 12, 2010, 01:49:16 PM
Okay you had me interested and thinking about reading the books early instead of waiting for the last one like I had been going to.

But yeah you have lost me now

A million Perrin chapters with Slayer, Wolf Dreams and no resolution for them?  Pardon me while I gag.  This shit was introduced in book 5 and should be finished.

Elayne chapters.  Now I am a hater here, but this is more than just me hating.  I don't give a flying fuck about Andor anymore.  After 3 bouts of political upheaval the country can go fuck itself, it is nowhere near the edges of the Blight, it has had its convenient waygates sealed and Saldaea and you know all that shit Lan was doing kind of is a million times more important at this point.  Seriously, sort this shit out.  Put the cunts to the sword like I dunno, Rand did to the other 3 countries he conquered and make them get the sand out of their vaginas, the world is ending you douchebags.

Mazrim Taim is still alive.  Again, this plot needed to be finished 3 books ago.  I am bored of it and sick of reading his pointless stupid douchery.  This guy clearly betrayed Rand.  Why the fuck is he putting up with his shit?

Seriously a book about Perrin and Elayne?  Wow, way to write a book that I just want to never read.  What is next a George Martin book that is all about Cockmeat Greyjoy and Daenerys?

Also NO RAND AGAIN?  Book 3 had an interesting take on having less Rand and the Elf disagrees with me on it being a bit of a strength which is 100% totally fair.  We needed a book with less Rand.  Book 3 was not the one to do it, but I think the series is better to have had it and to have had it early.

Also pointedly no real Verin discussion, so fuck this book again, it can wait until the series is done.


Onto general things!  Nynaeve has been piss weak ever since she got married, the character just doesn't get used.  Siuan replaced Nynaeve as a narrative device, which fits since she fills the same role better in the split tower scenario than Nynaeve did.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 12, 2010, 01:58:51 PM
Towers of Midnight:  finished.

This was a very happy, feel-good book.  The sun is shining, food appears again, Rand is saner than ever.  It's like the series is already over and the Last Battle is merely a formality.  Then the part with Aviendha happens and you realize that something ain't quite right!

Unlike the last book, this one has the appearance of being written by one author.  I'm assuming that's just Sanderson getting better at writing in the style of Jordan, rather than Jordan himself penning so much of it.

My favorite and least favorite characters are summed up pretty well by this book!

Favorite is Perrin, who gets lots of resolution in this book.  Unlike Rand who is stuck in godmode and Mat who is the comic relief of the series*, Perrin is just a normal guy who has gotten caught up in something bigger than himself.  Well, okay, normal guys don't talk to wolves and traverse dreamscapes, but he's still a very human character that's easy to relate to.  He doesn't ask for what's happened to him (both wolf-related and leadership-related), but he learns to accept it and tries his best.  He sometimes makes mistakes (lol at the marriage he performs in this book) but learns as he goes.  He also gets to smash things with a giant hammer, which is bonus style points.

Least favorite of the series is Elayne.  In the early books, Jordan can't decide on a personality for her and she changes every time she appears.  Then he does settle on one personality for her:  obnoxious-stupid.  Her botched interrogation in this book is pretty representative of what she's been like for the whole series.

*What I mean by comic relief is that everything that happens to Mat is ridiculously oversized.  He has colossal failures and ridiculous successess.  He's certainly amusing, but you don't find him believable at all.

Edit after reading Grefter's post:  No, Perrin actually gets resolved very well in this book.  I guess Slayer's still alive, but Perrin's quite strong enough to defeat him the next time he shows up.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 12, 2010, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from discussion with Super about mega spoilars and me being a bitchy bitch bitch being pasted here for giggles and posterity.

[23:53] <superaway> *Reads your rant* Read book 12 and 13.
[23:53] <Grefter> Fuck that.
[23:53] <Grefter> I have done the read this series and then be left waiting.
[23:54] <Grefter> I am going to sit down and read these one after another.
[23:54] <superaway> Some of the things you were talking about were resolved.
[23:54] <Grefter> Taim isn't dead.
[23:54] <Grefter> I don't care.
[23:54] <Grefter> If Taim isn't dead the books don't deserve it.
[23:55] <Grefter> I don't want to read these thigns being resolved now.
[23:55] <Grefter> I want these plot threads to be dropped and pretend they didn't matter.
[23:55] <Grefter> Because this shit is cold at this point.
[23:55] <superaway> Lame.
[23:55] <Grefter> It is.
[23:56] <Grefter> Remind me again why book 8 and 9 existed?
[23:56] <Grefter> Book 7 barely justifies itself.
[23:56] <superaway> I've never argued that 8-10 was the weakpoint of the series.
[23:57] <Grefter> Yeah so the series has a good 3 or so books to make up for.
[23:57] <Grefter> So I can wait for 3 books.
[23:58] <superaway> Not a long wait regardless, book 14's out next year
[23:58] <Grefter> Exactly.
[23:58] <Grefter> I have been waiting for some of these plot threads to resolve for over a decade now.
[23:58] <Grefter> I can wait another year to get my distasteful to little to late ending.
[23:59] * superaway shrugs. WoT's great, made mistakes. Happens.
[23:59] <superaway> Still the best fantasy series I've read.
[00:00] <Grefter> And?  That doesn't put it above criticism to me.
[00:00] <Grefter> That makes it especially essential to disect.
[00:01] <superaway> There's plenty wrong, but the overall anger level is weird. I know that's your thing and all but yeah.
[00:01] <superaway> Spoilars: Elayne is a stupid bitch in book 13, nearly gets herself killed. Other than that, I just want the books to end well.
[00:01] <Grefter> This is what happens when I have a personal investment in something and I get burned.
[00:02] <Grefter> So Elayne has the same plot she has had since book 2 still?  Cheers.
[00:02] <superaway> She pulls a stunt of similar retardation to the one she did again in 11

NOTE AFTER SUPER LEFT FOR CLASS

So Elany has the same plot she has had since book 2 still?  Cheers.


Edit - Captain K.  The bitchy thing above kind of covers it.  It isn't a matter of so much whether or not these things are resolved in this book or not.  It is the fact that they are being addressed in the second last book in the series right before the armageddon happens.  Not the time or the place for like half this shit.  It is partly me being spiteful at Jordan's writing in the last few books (which I enjoyed generally speakin as books themselves, but as pieces of a larger piece of fiction they are incredibly lacking).  These things should have been dealt with years ago instead of me reading about Egwene being manipulated with a Forsaken's super cool PMS inducing magicks or Perrin stalking Aiel for like a million years or what dress that White Ajah BITCH is wearing oh my god what a BITCH or one of countless other dead end plot threads that were introduced and resolved in the books of nothing happening.

Edit 2 - Man if they had resolved Perrin's plot 4 years ago they might have caught me at a time that I actually gave a fuck about Perrin instead of being the inane drivel that made me hate him as much as I do today.  Man he used to seem so much more intersting without the failure dead end snoozefest of the last few books.  The marriage seemed promising!  We have a character that might get a chance to mature from a young teen to a responsible adult!  OH LAWL WE FORGOT TO MAEK HIM DO ANYTHINGZ!

Edit 3 - Is this what it feels like to be Dhyer?  Nah I don't think I have been quite catty enough.  Still normal Grefter Angry here.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 12, 2010, 02:55:11 PM
Well you have to remember that I just started reading the series a couple of years ago.  Things are resolving at a reasonable pace for me.  If I had to wait a decade for some of these things I would probably be pissed off also.

Actually, no.  I am pissed off that they still haven't resolved Mazrim Taim.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 12, 2010, 06:11:50 PM
Yeah, these discussions are pretty much why I asked. I was surprised people generally seemed to like characters I loathe (ELAAAAAAAYNE) and hate characters I like (Perrin). For my own answer: I loathe Elayne because she is so very Mary Sue (omg super special pregnancy! and she is in love with the man who will save the world! and she's going to have perfect little twins! and she's queen! and her mommy's not dead after all! and she's a great ruler! and she's bringing kingdoms together! &c.) and, like others, I really don't give a shit about Andor. I like Perrin because he is the most human of all the characters - no fool pastiche (Mat), no god-mode/messiah/savior (Rand), no caricature of power (Elayne and then Egwene/Gawyn in a different way), no deux ex machina (Moiraine). Similar to Aviendha, who I also generally like.

The irony is that they probably have the most room to grow as characters because they are so absent from the plot and thus don't need to be shoved into plot-centric pigeonholes like the rest of the cast. So I can see why Perrin scenes would bother others. But you have no excuse to like Elayne. >_>

I reserve as much judgment as I can on epic fantasy until I've finished reading it (exception going to Sara Douglass, whose Wayfarer Redemption became unredeemable after book 2), but the points that have been made are similar to things I've thought, too.

My hesitation on drawing conclusions over why drawing all this shit out for 13 books is bad is this: I don't find it all that far-fetched that the Last Battle is going to be half what's already happened (nations being broken and rebuilt, the Aiel doing their thang, the Forsaken taking out or attempting to take out the major players/ta'veren, etc.), half the pitched battle with magic-flinging that everyone's been expecting. Don't get me wrong, leaving it at that or making the Last Battle some "the battle was in your hearts all along! <3" shit would not be even remotely okay. I'm just saying there's still plenty of potential for things to have happened the way they should, that everything was not as "drawn out" as it felt but rather was the work of carefully teasing out subtleties that otherwise would have gone overlooked.

Or maybe I'm just stupidly idealistic and too trusting.

Anyway.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 12, 2010, 06:41:59 PM
I do think, aside from the lamer villain, that Perrin's stuff is resolved well enough in book 13. This doesn't excuse how flippin terrible the villain and the conflict with him is, and how many pointless chapters it gets.

Blar, spoilers from here on.

.
.
.

Quote
He sometimes makes mistakes (lol at the marriage he performs in this book) but learns as he goes.

Perrin hasn't made a meaningful mistake in the series, to continue from my rant in my own post. He didn't perform a marriage well? Seriously? All his mistakes tend to be of that sort, minor relationship/dealing with people foibles. There are other things that -could- be mistakes but we're told in no uncertain terms that his ta'veren-ness will protect him from them. He has problems with leadership but the devotion of his people means this never actually matters while he learns better. I think Perrin chapters completely lack drama personally. The most exciting part of book 13's Perrin chapters wasn't his fate, but that of Galad and his men. Again, Perrin himself is reasonably likable for the reasons that have been said, but he makes for bad literature.

Quote
Her botched interrogation in this book is pretty representative of what she's been like for the whole series.

You mean, botched because she happened to do it in the middle of a prison breakout nobody could have predicted? It was daring, of course, but entirely fair as a calculated risk. It was certainly less risky than, say, sneaking into the Tower of Ghenjei, but I don't see anyone blaming Mat for that (I'm not either!). I thought it was quite clever, personally - if you have a better way of getting information out of the Black Ajah without resorting to torture I'd like to hear it. You can argue she should have posted guards right outside the room just to be safe, and that's entirely fair, but woohoo, mistakes. I'm not going to blame Elayne for not waiting to run the plan past her overprotective Warder anyway. You can! But it's obvious enough why she did it, and her own perspective justifies it quite well.

.
.
.

EDIT: LD ninja! Not much to respond to, except that I'm deathly amused you'd call someone a Mary Sue after some other people in the topic are complaining that she botches things, those are kinda mutually exclusive. If it's not clear whom I consider the most Gary Stu-ish character in the book after this (although he's not really -that- bad, I prefer to save that label for those who direly need it), I'm not going to restate it now. <_<

Interestingly I think which characters you see as most human/relatable varies on your own personality type a lot, given how different people give totally different answers. I think this speaks to Jordan's strength with writing good thought processes, something I like about him a lot, and one of several reasons I will continue to hype this series despite its recurring pacing problems and the rightful rage they induce in Grefter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 12, 2010, 10:20:49 PM
no deux ex machina (Moiraine)

That character's fate has been so heavily hinted at since before she left (And her own letters indicidate this) that I have trouble generating much of a negative opinion. It's like Mat's eye, it is hard to seriously call it a spoiler when it's been foreshadowed as much as it has.



Quote
You mean, botched because she happened to do it in the middle of a prison breakout nobody could have predicted? It was daring, of course, but entirely fair as a calculated risk. It was certainly less risky than, say, sneaking into the Tower of Ghenjei, but I don't see anyone blaming Mat for that (I'm not either!)

The actual interrogation wasn't a bad idea, but the absolute lack of preparation was headdesk worthy. Considering the last couple of books have talked about her having trouble with channeling and it becomes a really silly risk to take. She absolutely refuses to take her personal safety into account, which is insane considering she's both preggers and the ruler of a country that just got done with a protacted civil war.She could easily give birth after being converted to the shadow (Poor Tarna) is an extremely valuable hostage, etc.

And like others have said, I'm over Andor. That, like Perrin's thread, should have been long since wrapped up.

I don't think Mat thought he had a choice. (And we know he doesn't, see Min's inner monolouge about Rand losing the last battle without Moiraine.) He at least prepared as well as he could.

Character ranting time.

Perrin's leadership doesn't bother me. He's just struggling with the same things he was in book FUCKING FOUR. There's no excuse for how slowly his arc's moved, nor is there any excuse for him dicking around with Slayer. He bested Slayer in book four (again, sensing a trend?), and eh. I like the wolf dream, but it's something that should have been long since done. Perrin's such a mixed bag, because when he's good it's great (Two Rivers defense, Malden battle, cutting someone's hand off),  but when it's bad it is dogshit. (Endless Faile angst, wahhing about leadership, being a complete waste for several books).


I've said this to several people in PM, but Rand creeps the hell out of me. He has almost no humanity as it stands. He's fully become the Dragon, but where's the character that grew up over the course of the books? Cadsuene's reaction to him was dead fucking on when he talked about the Paralis net.

Also, fuck off Mazrim Taim. Related note, I'm a little stunned we haven't had a darkfriend reveal yet among the Aiel. I thought for sure one of the Wise ones would turn out to be darkfriends.


Oh. Favorite characters:

1. Nynaeve
2. Mat
3. Galad
4. Perrin? I guess.
5. Lan- Just struck a chord with me, which Rand/Egwene didn't really do this book. 

The first three jump out, and the rest is a mess of eh.

Favorite scenes: These aren't in order.

1. Verin's letter. Hahahaha.

Quote: WoT Wiki:" Although it has been speculated that Olver could be the new reincarnation of Gaidal Cain, Robert Jordan asserted that this was not the case.Jordan has confirmed that Olver has a purpose other than being a red herring however."

Cute. The scene just gave a feeling of complete and overwhelming dread. It makes perfect sense as a reveal.  The epilouge hit home with the perfect mix of OH SHIT and 'that makes sense' that I haven't had since Zane's death scene in Mistborn. 
2.  Demonic Aiel. Part two of why the epilouge was great.
3. Nynaeve's testing and her bitching out of the Aes Sedai. She's always been my favorite of the major female characters in Wot, and this scene reminded me why. She won't let the white tower be everything in her life, and she won't sacrifice either her husband or her beliefs just to be an Aes Sedai. Egwene had her best moments in the book there in that scene as well- her nudging the Aes Sedai was very wise. If Nynaeve had been casted out, you'd have destroyed the closest link the sisters have to Rand. It would have been stupid as could be.
4. Elayne/Mat. Mat has fantastic chemistry with all three of the supergirls (One of my favorite moments in book 12 was Nynaeve defending Mat to Tuon), and this was no exception.
5. Mat sacrificing his eye to save Moiraine. We knew it was coming, but I still enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 12, 2010, 10:56:09 PM
It is worth noting that the series only really started to rub me the wrong way with the pacing in the last few years as I shifted further and further away from pulp fantasy and more to other things and my harsh criticism of well all things in general honestly (that is right, I used to be forgiving!).  Just as a series it has been floundering and you can point out exactly where.  Edit - This means we needed a stronger editor presence.

Regarding half this shit happening being Tarmon gaiden, the prophecies are pretty explicit on the ways Rand will break and split the world, yeah he has been doing that, so that is definitely part of it.  They are also pretty explicit about you know, the Blight going absolutely ape shit.  There HAS to be a final battle here, one way or another.  It might be a pretty sharp short conclusive one, but there is going to be a fight of some kind going on out there.  Rand might not be there!  But well if Mat and at least Perrin are not there then there wasn't much point in having a long running plot of Rand's two compatriots becoming competent military leaders.  I think you can tell at this point just how strongly my reaction would be to THAT plot thread being a loose pointless one at this point.  Considering that was the best chapters Perrin had and one of the more fun elements of Mat as well it would prove pretty damning to the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on November 16, 2010, 10:29:56 PM
Scott Pilgrim 1-4:
Read the first book at DLcon, liked it, finally picked up the others.  Great stuff!  Snappy writing and art, enjoyable and intriguing characters, amazing atmospheric work, and constantly evolves and develops a fascinating story.

Scott Pilgrim 5-6:
Sucked.

Man, what... what happened?  Why is there such a massive, massive all around quality dropoff in the last two books?  They feel rushed in tone, content and art, provide a very lukewarm resolution to the story, and not only fail to capitalize on all the prior setup but actually manage negative character development in some cases.  (KNIVES, oh my god, what happened to this entire plotline...)

Anyway, the first four were awesome. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on November 18, 2010, 07:18:54 AM
Re: Why Scott Pilgrim 5-6 sucked

Short answer: Wallace didn't get enough screentime.

Longer version: Scott stopped playing off of his friends, which is what made the series feel alive to me. Wallace in particular is the person that Scott plays best with. The romance with Ramona felt weird in the emo-induced vaccuum. The parts with Kim were decent for character-building for Scott, but the rest felt forced and wasted. Even the humorous plot of evil exes just kinda died without Scott's friends around to make it fun. Scott by himself is also too much jerk in one place to really root for him while he's fighting. Particularly against Jerk#2 Gideon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on November 19, 2010, 11:09:23 AM
Finished Book 13.  Think it has Elayne settled into the spot of favourite character for the time being, but Rand is still fairly close, with Egwene a distant third.

Mat is still probably my least favourite of the main characters.  Partially because I have a strong emotional liking of Perrin, partially because I loath him in books 3-11, and partially because he's tied so strongly to Tuon, who I strongly dislike both personally, and as a representative of her culture (The Mat/Tuon arc in books 10/11 are pretty solidly the series lowpoint for me)

As for the book itself, much love for Rand's first appearance, Elayne's interrogation, and Avienda's big scene.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on December 04, 2010, 08:57:11 PM
Currently working through Malazan Book of the Fallen, the central struggle of which against a malevolent elder god surely owes nothing to traditional epic fantasy traditions, no sir. On book seven out of ten (final book comes in the Spring). The man is a writing robot, I swear. Puts out a thousand-page book like every year without fail. Certain writers could learn from this example! It's pretty good stuff. Some of his writing quirks irked me initially, but at least some of these have become less prominent over time. Still not without his flaws, but he's really only got better since the beginning. More people need to read this so there can be discussions about things I actually give a damn about in this thread. Anyway, will probably due a full breakdown of the series when I get caught up (in another couple months I guess).

(Man, I almost posted this in the IotD thread when I started going off on a tangent about fantasy books. I figured I may as well C+P the paragraph here since I'd already written it).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 04, 2010, 11:04:07 PM
I read up to book 8. Honestly, Mazalan is by far the least recommendable fantasy I've read (Note: Not the worst, just not recommendable). Truth to be told, there's some awesome stuff in it, but it just has some absurd density. Didn't start to click with me at all until book 4 I think it was (Not so coincedentally, book 4 was were we actually focused on one group continuously!)

Finished book 13. It was...decent enough, but I swear that every other viewpoint was a Perrin chapter. There was some fun stuff, but for many of the characters, there were also some obvious parts that were just kind of taking care of foreshadowing that's been hanging around for half the series or more. Fun, but not near the level of sheer awesome of book 12.

Surprised that people specifically have a problem with the interrogation, since Egwene, Mat and Perrin all do things can be easily be seen as just as foolish (And in Perrin's case, done with little planning or cunning in mind. In fact, Elayne and Egwene's preparations were fairly similar and foiled in the same ways, but Elayne's being foiled were due to an unexpected event). I guess it boils down mostly to whether one likes Elayne.

I don't mind sticking around Andor more. Unlike Perrin, Elayne's plot is generally fairly different in each book (if a bit disjointed). While we've been there a while, for what Elayne was generally trying to accomplish, it made sense.

Favorite part was definitely Aviendha's. Of everything, how this makes her act in the next book is what I'm most interested in.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 04, 2010, 11:30:22 PM
The issues with sticking around Andor aren't issues with the individual pieces of writing, but at a narrative level of the entire series.  It is just one country, the only reason we seem to be seeing shit there is because Elayne is there.  Why the fuck is Andor so damned important that we see this shit there all the time?  Why is it treated so much different than Illian which was taken by sword and fire and stays in line because of it?  Even Cairhienen didn't get that much focus and due to pulling stupid retarded bullshit THAT IS WHAT CAIRHIENEN IS NOTED FOR DOING.  We still have like the entire Borderlands untouched by the long standing narrative other than like just Saldaea who is helping Perrin because he is the heir to the throne now (?).  Rand spent like half a book in that free trading city state sort of place where you can't cast magic missiles and ... nothing was done to take that area by either side.  It is just kind of sitting there.  So much stuff is happening all over the world or SHOULD be happening all around the world but oh my gods something is happening in Andor again lets site and watch that. 

It is frustrating and really throws out the pacing.  At this point is there any reason Elayne couldn't have been say campaigning for Rand and had most of this drama happening there?  It would have mostly fit the same plot points and had someone actively working to proceed Rand's cause militarilly out of the main characters ever since Matt (who was the only one doing so for a few books...) got tied up with Tuon.  There is still presumably you know nearly open warefare with the Seanchean on multiple fronts and all we ever see of it is in prologues because none of the main characters are in a position in the narrative to be part of it.

Which kind of is going to piss me off if the idea that all these events are actually Tarmon Gaiden, because at this rate, we are going to have missed heart of it on the front lines because we were to busy focussing on the key players fucking around doing nothing for the regular people of the world while they threw their lives away for nothing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on December 05, 2010, 12:14:17 AM
I don't really think the "front lines" is the heart of the narrative at all, personally.

Elayne's arc in book 13 (and much of book 13 itself, hi Aviendha chapters!) is very much focussed on preparing for -after- Tarmon Gaidon, which to me is at least as interesting as any preparations for it (let alone the battle itself which could easily be dull). She's working on forging a powerful nation that will have to potentially stand against the Seanchan, the Illian-Tear fusion that Rand forged, and the Borderlanders who might decide to do who-knows-what when the Blight dies down. The fact that Andor is the home country of all the core characters in the series also gives us a lot of emotional attachment to it, or it certainly should. And in particular, it is the country of Elayne's people, to have her do things unrelated to it at this point would be weird. Something about duty being one of the big themes of the series applies here. Of the other major characters Egwene has her duty to the White Tower and Perrin to the Two Rivers folk, and wouldn't you know it, we get lots of time in the White Tower (+Salidar) and quite a bit of Perrin looking after the Two Rivers folk (though not as much because they're a smaller group).  Why don't we spend more time in Illian? It's because we don't give a shit about Illian, the most important character from there is maybe the 50th most important in the series and has nothing to do with it any more anyway. It makes no sense to spend time there beyond what is needed. Ultimately the book is about its characters, and the world they live in. It is not about some big battle we already know the outcome of anyway (not that Jordan may not have put some sort of neat twist on it), or making sure every country in the world gets its "fair share" of screentime as if we might hurt their feelings if they don't.

Also if you think the point of Elayne's character is to do things for Rand I think you've really missed her point entirely! It is very clear that the two of them walk very different paths in terms of what each feels his or her duty is, which is why they interact minimally despite their feelings for each other.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 05, 2010, 12:58:15 AM
It's a bit reductive to say that we spent time there because one of the main characters of the series rules there, but it does kind of boil down to that. No other real reason is ever really needed! Most of the other things NEB says are spot on though. Not to mention that beyond the White Tower, Andor overall is one the major focal points for Channelers. The Kin, the Seafolk, The Black Tower, and even the Wise Ones are one point are basically bunkering down there to some degree, and a lot of Elayne's chapters have been balancing those needs in addition to Andor. I certainly do wish more had been done with them, but that's generally true of most of the character threads.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 05, 2010, 01:40:12 AM
And yet for such a focal point of chanellers, we sure as shit don't spend much time dealing with them do we?  Also note that 2 of those 4 power centres of channelers are Rand's and they are the two with the biggest presence in Andor.  Elayne and Rand may walk different paths, but Andor exists because Rand lets it.  Elayne can be taking territory for Rand and still be building up a third majour power base, remember Andor has gained Cairhienen through that exact method essentially (and also lost Two Rivers for what it is worth).  Her getting out there and taking more territory (possibly not by the sword) that is previously largely unaligned, of which there is an amazingly large amount due to the old worlds disorganised nations, is entirely doable while still building on the other factors.

The war may not be won on the front line, but there IS a war happening out there.  To not have anything out there is just incredibly callous as a story telling device (o btw 2 million ppl ded lol), but the worst thing is that it disconnects that whole component of the story.  If you have ever wondered why there has been very little sense of urgency to the story it is because of shit like that.  How much more intense were the later books when Rand stopped fucking around in a town in the middle of nowhere and he ended up on the front lines?  It felt like stuff was happening even though in the larger campaign not a great deal was won or lost there (was Rand character moments more than actual important combat plot point).  You don't need to revel in the front lines, but you do need to know they are there and relevant.

But anyway, I can appreciate that we need to have a focus on what is important to the characters and call backs to that, it is part of what makes WoT characters fairly humanised, but we also have a narrative that we are trying to get rolling here.  We have had 13 books of Andor.  Please could we move the fuck on.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on December 05, 2010, 05:29:02 AM
I read up to book 8. Honestly, Mazalan is by far the least recommendable fantasy I've read (Note: Not the worst, just not recommendable). Truth to be told, there's some awesome stuff in it, but it just has some absurd density. Didn't start to click with me at all until book 4 I think it was (Not so coincedentally, book 4 was were we actually focused on one group continuously!)

Yeah, that highlights his main problem: he likes doing Loads and Loads of Characters, but he's not always all that great at it. The best parts in the series are when we focus on a specific group of people for a long period of time. The introduction of book 4 was also the exact point when I really started being impressed by him. Not that the first three books are bad (I wouldn't recommend something that takes 3+ books to get readable), just so scattershot. But book 4? We have a consistent central character for 250 pages and suddenly all the chaff is gone (well, for that arc at least). In general, I think Erikson really got his shit together at this point, though some of his hangups linger (oh god, the keyboard mash names).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 05, 2010, 08:18:02 AM
For Gref: Elayne had a number of fodder chapters, but what you describe for her doesn't really fit much at all. I'm not exactly sure where she'd go and try to conquer by whatever method even if she felt it was her perjorative, which she doesn't. Even if Andor was stable during the whole time, to the East is basically areas Rand has solidified, there's not really much of anything to the North, going South would make Perrin's chapters even more pointless, and West isn't geographically feasible. Not to mention that if Elayne being able to solidify power that quickly would feel off in terms of both backstory and generalized world setup. She's not the Dragon Reborn, she's not T'averen, and Andor had been effectively retracting in size at the beginning of the series to start with.

Also, Any country at this point in the book exists because Rand lets its, right down to the Seanchan power base and the city that's supposed to be completely protected from magic, so I'm not how that's relevant. Nor would I really call the Black Tower or Aiel channelers Rand's groups; I certainly agree that I wish we had seen more of the Black Tower in some way certainly, although Elayne has been grappling with rogue channelers in at least 2 of the books (Which makes me disagree that no time is spent on them).

Regarding the front lines, I'm not even sure there's been much action there before book 12 at the earliest. The Blight was sitting quiet for ages. We've had a character ride across most of it's distance in the last 2 books without a battle.

For Cid: Unfortunately, the fact that it took until 4 very large books to really leave any good impression is just...not remotely forgivable as a flaw in a book series. Double unfortunately, that scattershot also means that I really have trouble remembering some parts of the books having been away from them for some time (Which is...insanely rare. I'd have to do a pretty thorough checking to be sure, but I can only of maybe...two other longish fantasy series that left that little of a comprehensive impression. Maybe. Both shorter series, somewhat fodderish, and read less recently). When I last reread the series I probably could have engaged in discussion, but that was...at least 2 years ago, maybe 3.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on December 05, 2010, 03:37:15 PM
Yeah, that's understandable. I never thought the first three books were actually bad (otherwise I wouldn't have kept reading), just that I usually came away with an impression of "Yeah, I guess this is an okay way to waste my time." I wouldn't forgive a series that took four books to do anything remotely interesting; first three at least had Kruppe/Coltaine/Envy&co. to keep me entertained. What really gets me down on the earlier books is that Erikson spends too much time outright describing how characters feel about things, which is an approach that doesn't work for me at all. Eventually he largely tosses this out for internal monologuing/increased banter quota, which shows us the same things in a much more intimate manner. First-time writer flaws are abundant early on; it's pretty clear that he hadn't tried writing anything on this scale before Deadhouse Gates. It's not that things didn't happen in the first three books--plenty of big events did, it's just that most of them prove less memorable than Tehol Beddict chasing chickens around his house because Erikson hadn't entirely figured out what he was on about until he'd been writing for a while.

For all that it probably sounds like I'm knocking the guy here, I really can't understate how awesome he can be when he's firing on all cylinders. It might help that he seems to have the same perspective of humanity as I do.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on December 06, 2010, 12:01:27 AM
Haven't even ever seen a copy of a Wheel of Time book to my knowledge, so I can't comment on the actual discussions going on in here, but I just recently finished Terry Pratchett's Small Gods, and it merits some comments.

This is the first book of Pratchett's that I've read to be solely concerned with religion, and boy is it concerned with it. Pratchett manages to both revere and mock pretty much every religious viewpoint he touches in this book. Which is, of course, his style. He showed merciless religious zealots alongside uplifting messages about the power of belief. He championed using logic over relying on scripture, but then turns around and shows all the atheists looking for cover from sudden lightning bolts. To be fair, it's Discworld, and Gods aren't just Real, they're your next-door-neighbor. This makes his clever Real-World parallelisms all the more ingenius in my opinion, but again, that's one of Pratchett's strong points.

In particular, this is another book that has shown a positive view of religion that didn't feel brainwashed. It shows the good and bad sides of religion and it actually helped a bit in explaining to me (an atheist) how anyone could possibly believe in a religion and not... (I've rewritten the next words 20 times now in an attempt to not be offensive, this is the best you'll get) feel like a terrible person.

So... yay for Fantasy~ To me, it seems like this is the perfect genre for exploring themes about faith, but then I think about most of the other Fantasy novels that have dealt with religion and they aren't very good about being fair to religion. ...And I imagine that most religious people don't like having their beliefs lumped in with 'Fantasy'.

Still, with Elantris and now Pratchett's take on religious ideas, I'm hopeful that there will be other authors who can produce realistic and sympathetic religious characters. It's notable that Elantris did it better, but Small Gods simply has a lot more characters, so we get to see a lot more aspects of the religion... even though most of the views are half-comical (and completely comical in some cases).

Moving away from the controversial parts of the novel that drew me in, the Discworld 'physics' of how Gods/Small Gods work is particularly fascinating. The basic idea is that Belief in a God makes a God stronger. The more Believers, the stronger the God. Not all that original, but Pratchett uses it to great effect through the more detailed rules he sets, especially on how Small Gods are born. The most vivid example was from the opening chapter about how -everything- has its own deity... the Small God of a Crossroads of a blade of grass, the Small Gods of particular air molecules... And then he goes into greater detail about how if the Small God is lucky, they may happen upon a Human and they can do their best to impress them with a small miracle and hopefully start getting some believers. Starting with small altar of thanks and eventually working their way to temples and pyramids.

The main Small God of the novel just so happens to have once been believed in by hundreds of thousands, but this number has since dwindled and he's been trapped in the less-than-dignified body of a tortoise. Lucky for him, this is Discworld and tortoises have some special significance that helps him out later on. The results of a sudden influx of belief were pretty cool, as was seeing the (D&D reference?) dice game of the Large Gods.

Anyway, it's by far the most sophistocated of Pratchett's books that I've read, and second only to his Tiffany Aching books in terms of plain enjoyment. I would recommend it just for being Pratchett, of course, but its enlightening view of religion and the nature of faith stood out. If either of those reasons sound good to you, and you haven't read this book yet (though I suspect a lot of you have), you should make it your first Discworld book, or a priority read from Pratchett if you're familiar with him already.

Hmm... out of curiosity, how many of the regular posters in this topic are actually Pratchett fans?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on December 06, 2010, 01:17:11 AM
Hmm... out of curiosity, how many of the regular posters in this topic are actually Pratchett fans?

Yo. Pretty much favorite author here.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 06, 2010, 03:00:55 AM
I only seem to have 20 or so Discworld books around here, so clearly not too much of a fan.  That said, you'd probably like Nation, a non-Discworld pratchett, came out a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on December 06, 2010, 05:49:28 AM
I'd feel comfortable guessing a vast majority of the DL likes Pratchett.  Myself included, of course.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on December 06, 2010, 06:07:53 AM
Pratchett is 0/1 for me but I suspect I'd like almost any other book by him more.

That said I'm pretty sure he's the most popular author at the DL overall!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on December 07, 2010, 04:07:08 PM
I like him a fair bit, and also patently enjoy Small Gods, though for my money, the only Pratchett that can top the Night Watch books are Going Postal and The Truth, or whatever the one about the newspaper is called.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 18, 2010, 08:09:27 PM
And so caps off all my reading from the big new fantasy sources that have been out the past few months. Finished Shadowheart, book 4 of Tad William's Shadowmarch series that just came out about a month ago. Even more than book 13 of WoT, I was especially excited to read this (Book 13 just had a two week headstart in terms of availibility!). Overall, the series really felt like a far better version of his first fantasy series Memory, Thorn and Sorrow. There's a whole slew of minor plot similarities, which might normally be problematic if Memory, Thorn, and Sorrow didn't feel like there were a whole horde of worldbuilding items in it that deserved development. Not to mention that he creates some interesting worlds anyways, so I didn't mind at all. It did take until the 2nd book to start really breaking out of the mold, also one viewpoint in the first book definitely felt completely fresh.

Excellent ending, which is always notable because those are so hard to write in fantasy books. It may have been the most exciting part, and really was a fantastic job wrapping the whole series up. Definitely up there for one of my favorite series.

Also in the past few months: The Silver Mage, the final book of Katherine Kerr's endless Deverry series. Final write time of the series: 24 years! And for the record, that's 24 years for books that were generally around 400 pages, meaning that mathematically she was crushed by most other authors that are rightfully complained about in terms of taking too long. I'm sure I had initially commented on this in my last mega-post, but by the end, I was reading because after reading the first 14! books, it made sense to kind of see it through. I told Super this when he was visiting, but the killer flaw in the series was that the author had basically had the characters talk about what was going to happen for the last 3 or so books, and the problem was, none of it was remotely that interesting. Lolziest fail villains found anywhere in fantasy that I've read. Their high point was killing one town in the middle of nowhere that no one knew about. Their low point...either failing to kill any main character EVER in a book about reincarnation or all being blown to smithereens at once while managing to not threaten anyone. Actually, over 14 books, the most effective villain wasn't even a villain, just in misguided lust. In this world, even assassin clans and dark mages who would feel at home hanging out with Darken Rahl are easily foiled by even very inexperienced characters.

Core problem with the series: The flashbacks were solid because by the premise of the books, things had to go sour in them. In the here and now time of the book, characters generally can't die and will be seen over 10 books even if they just aren't that interesting! Kerr is "threatening" to revisit some other characters in the world at a later time, but if she does, I'll not be picking it up. I can't believe that Neb gets two lines in the final book, but she devoted yet another book to Rhodry? Ugh. And Mara gets no development at all? I guess that would have meant that the final book would have made Katherine Kerr actually write something new.

Also, lolzy use of our own world.

Daughter of the Forest- Another low-powered Celtic fantasy! A bit reminiscent of early Kerr (when she was actually still good!). Set in a semi-version of our own real world, but manages to avoid making it lolzy (Which...is rare in a fantasy book). Overall a fun solid read. First of a trilogy, although the book could have been an independent one.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on December 22, 2010, 05:57:18 PM
Reread Brahm Stoker's Dracula.

Took like...two months (this is why I don't read high literature very often anymore.  To be fair, Starcraft 2 took a big bite out of my reading time).  Not a whole lot to add to my inital assessment.  Mina is actually GI Jane, what with the "according to these topographical maps and these train schedules, I can predict the path here".  I paid a little more attention to the sexuality stuff--notably the book arguably alegorically references homosexuality (Dracula almost feeds on a man...almost.  He resists, though).  The treatment of sexually promiscuous women is pretty conservative--with Dracula's harem declared "not women at all", and Lucy put to an elaborate death.  Mina as the token smart chick does pretty well for herself, though--in fact, every time she's excluded from the men's club it turns out to be a mistake.

Other than that...geez, eight years ago I found Van Hellsing's accent charming.  In 2010 I found it really annoying, and an impediment to entertaining reading.  Not that I haven't enjoyed books with funny accents--sure, Harry Potter has Hagrid, but Hagrid doesn't make four-page-long speeches on a regular basis.



Anita Blake novels 1 and 2 (Guilty Pleasures and The Laughing Corpse).

Recommended to me as the original 90s badass female vampire hunter (along with Buffy).  I'm told that by the fourth book it basically becomes pornography, but the first few books were fun.  About 50 pages into the first book I was worried that it wasn't going to take four books to get there--they'd already had a vampire strip club (with only male strippers), various male characters with "rippling muscles" and "deep blue eyes you could get lost in", and an offer of sex from a were-rat, including discussion of the size of his genitals.  Fortunately (for me) the books take a sharp turn away from this style of "heterosexual romance novel".  Instead it focuses more on Anita Blake being a traditional badass (trained in Judo, armed with an automatic rifle, and able to raise an army of zombies to help her).  Although to be fair, the men are still usually in the 20-40 range, while female characters that get described in detail are like...13 and 70.

Anita is not a traditional hero--she's willing to launch a pre-emptive strike; she's willing to kill someone because they "deserve to die".  Her nickname is "The Executioner" (the one who executes vampires who break the law) although...she's not always strict about waiting for the order of execution (provided she can get away with it--killing vampires is against the law in this universe).  Despite all this she has an extremely soft side.  And no--I'm not referring to her penchant for collecting stuffed penguins; that's just a vice and/or comic releif.  She'll grow attached to an unimportant known minion of the enemy whom she knows she can't trust, and become horribly enraged if this minion comes to any harm, to the point that she'll put her own life at risk for the character and/or avenge the character.  From the woman who's willing to kill preemptively if she can get away with it legally, the contrast is a little shocking.

Also, something that stood out to me was the 90s-style sexism.  Anita declares that if you're in this kind of work, it's not enough to be as good as the boys, you have to be better than the boys.  One of the women in the books laments the fact that Anita makes too much money, complaining that it causes her to not require a man (which was a problem, because Anita was still a spinster at the old age of 24).  Anita notices that all the people home watching the kids were women, commenting "some things never change".  I dunno if this was true in the 90s, but these days I certainly know some stay-at-home dads.  Anita is visibly grossed out when offered sex by a woman, and shudders when she passes two leather-bound men holding hands.

Mythology-wise, Vampires are legal...but only in the United States are they given rights, having their largest public face in middle America--Missouri.  (Yeah, I find that part pretty hard to believe).  There are vampires, and werecreatures, and the main character is none of the above but also has partial immunity to vampire mind tricks that mind control the average human.  (Hmm...where have I seen that scenario before?  To be fair, this may have been the book that started the genre).  Other creatures in the mythology are Necromancers/Animators, the Zombies they raise, Ghouls (undead that eat flesh; tied to cemetaries), Witches, and ghosts.  Vampires are pretty standard (can't come in unless invited; sleep during the day unless quite old; killed by sunlight; master/slave mind-control relationship; can do mind tricks on humans; silver doesn't kill, but makes them heal almost human slow).  The one unusual part is the ability to designate a willing human servant--an undying human on which your mind-powers won't work, but with whom you can communicate telepathically, and who will have part of your stamina.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on December 24, 2010, 04:07:41 AM
Pratchett is 0/1 for me but I suspect I'd like almost any other book by him more.

What book of his did you read?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 24, 2010, 04:13:20 AM
Good Omens (a teamup between him and Neil Gaiman.)  I forget WHY Elfboy didn't like it but he's mentioned before he thought it was bad.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on December 27, 2010, 05:26:28 AM
Changeless - Gail Carriger

Remember a few months back how I wrote about Soulless--"A novel of vampires, werewolves, and parasols"?  The book where, on being attacked by a vampire, one would huff "how very rude and uncivilized"?  Well Changeless is book 2 in the series--"A novel of vampires, werewolves, and dirigibles."  You know, I declared after Soulless that the novelty of polite victorian reactions to all kinds of ridiculous situations wears off--and it does--but Gail Carriger is just a phenomenally clever writer, so the series remains quite entertaining (although just as silly).

Central to this book is a butch lesbian inventor who runs around in a tuxedo flirting with the main character, and who is (most scandalously) French.  If she was compared to a James Bond character, she would most certainly be Q: the provider of clever gadgets.  Part way through the book, I had pretty much concluded that she was entirely too awesome of a character to be the villain of Changeless--that would mean she couldn't come back in book 3.  (No comment on whether or not I was right :P)

I'm also starting to get genuinely interested in the plot of the series; yes, the series spends the majority of its time being silly, but what substance is there is actually pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on December 28, 2010, 02:54:26 AM
Silver Borne - Patricia Briggs

Book 5 of the Mercy Thompson series.  This raised an interesting test--the last time I read a novel in the Parasol Protectorate series, the next book I read just seemed so poorly written by comparison (Gail Carriger being very clever with words).  The Mercy Thompson novels being my previous pick for "best vampire/werewolf series", this posed an interesting test--would Book 5 hold up to Parasol Protectorate's book 2 writing wise?  I'm going to go ahead and say yes--it was about par.  (It's noteworthy that I read Silver Borne in under 24 hours; usually a good sign).

Silver Borne focuses almost entirely on Fae and Werewolves.  Both of which are pretty interesting in this universe--the Fae because of the careful way you need to word everything around them; the werewolves because of the psychological mess that is the pack.  Although I will say that non-vampire villains have been comparatively less dramatic so far--although this isn't necessarily a bad thing as it allows more time for character development.  Past that, I don't want to spoil anything more.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on December 28, 2010, 03:49:14 AM
Pratchett is 0/1 for me but I suspect I'd like almost any other book by him more.

That said I'm pretty sure he's the most popular author at the DL overall!

Sadly, the DL doesn't read enough Vonnegut
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on December 28, 2010, 07:17:51 AM
Finished The Shattering, because I figured why the hell not.

I'll rant longer on this, but generally speaking, it was much better than I anticipated. Which isn't saying much, but hey. Christie had a lot of glimmers of good writing in there, it just felt bogged down by stuff that really needed a red pen taken to it.

Also, a severe lack of Vol'jin. What the fuck, mate.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on January 05, 2011, 05:56:37 PM
Les Misèrables. My third attempt. This is just a behemoth. I don't want to continue turning into the B&N lurker who buys books but doesn't successfully read them all. Blah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on January 07, 2011, 06:57:27 AM
Read Mistborn. Damn this guy is good.

Read Well of Ascension. Awesome followup.

Reading Hero of Ages. This guy is very very good at misdirection.

I want to ramble about how awesome this series is, but my ramblings feel inadequate. Suffice to say, I am wholly impressed with Brandon Sanderson and I'll be reading his books as they come out from now on. Thanks to super and the others who kept recommending this guy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on January 29, 2011, 01:16:51 AM
Every Dark Desire – Fiona Zedde

This book articulates the downside to being a vampire better than any other book I’ve read so far.  It’s written by a Jamaican expatriate lesbian, and with that comes many rebellions against the restrictions of vampire lifestyle.  For instance, the typical vampire strategy of “hunt the dregs—the humans who won’t be missed,” most vampire characters seem to react “okie dokie, anything for the Masquerade!”  However, this main character strongly disagrees: she’s been a “dreg”, and she knows how much every card is stacked against the poor.  Next, she has a guilt complex tied into her sexuality—in her mind, having sought out a lesbian experience (which coincidentally turned her into a vampire) was really when she turned her back on her family—when she became a tainted sinner who could never return to her daughter.  And of course, there’s all the sadness of knowing that she can’t even be in the same room as her daughter without thirsting for her blood and probably killing her.

I can’t remember how or when I got this book, but I have a few guesses….  You see, Every Dark Desire is also part of a relatively specific genre: the lesbian equivalent of a romance novel*.  There is a detailed lesbian sex scene roughly every ten pages.  Granted, this is not inappropriate for a vampire setting—the act of vampires feeding is near universally considered a rape metaphor.  There’s a reason so many vampire series eventually end up pornographic.  To be honest, I think Every Dark Desire succeeds at some things that less pornographic entries simply fail to do.  For instance, blood being sexy and drinking blood being a sexual act.  I’ve seen it tried before (Charlene Harris’ books) but I always reacted with “ew, that made the scene much less sexy”.  Every Dark Desire succeeded for me (which is honestly creeping me out: I actually don’t want to think of drinking human blood as sexy.  Here’s hoping I’m just reacting to good writing).  The book also succeeds in ways that would be a tough sell for a heterosexual character—the main character gives in to her desires; her desires to murder (which she sees as sinful) and her desires to have lesbian sex (which she sees as sinful) and all these desires and sins begin to blend together.

Overall, a good book.  Which is to say, the writing is strong…for all that the plot gets sidelined for quite a while due to all of the sexual tangents.

*(Both gay and straight women have mostly verbal porn, and both gay and straight men have mostly visual porn.  This is actually pretty surprising to me given the brain tests they’ve done where gay women and straight men scanned similar, and straight women and gay men scanned similar.  Makes me wonder if the verbal/visual pornographic split is related to estrogen/testosterone?)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 29, 2011, 05:12:05 AM
Reread Mistborn trilogy.

My thoughts are pretty basic:

Sanderson is a good writer. He is not a Great Writer in the literary sense, but he delves into nuances and is good with some consistent subtlety. He misses some opportunities and, unfortunately, falls prey to Hey I Have a Great Idea - Who Cares If I Didn't Set It Up Properly?, and definitely writes from a religious background, but those are minor distractions.

Book 1 is a good intro to the world, and builds a great set of characters. Vin is one of my favorite heroines. Kelsier is one of my favorite All-American Boy* protagonists because he is a bastard version of it. The crew makes for a great dynamic. The weaving of the overarching story with the pieces that make it lead out into future books are fairly well handled, and I don't think, "Hey, he just wants to sell us another book" of the arc that leads into Book 2.

* I was going to say "Superman," but I don't want to imply that he was supernaturally powerful. Just... He knows what is Right. He has Honor. He does what he must, because he can (also, "no one else will/can"). He has Endearing Flaw that turns out to be Secret Strength. Etc. See also: Raoden, Rand, Kaladin, etc.

Book 2 is the middle child. As such, it suffers from the same problems all middle children in trilogies do: it's not as tightly constructed, having to pick up pieces from previous threads and dole out strings to move into a third book. The book is much more psychological than the first book's sociological slant, and the dynamic between the worlds Vin has to navigate is good. I really hate the choices at the end of this book -- it's the beginning of what makes me dislike Book 3 so much.

Book 3 is a good finisher. It just takes so damn long to get to the point. Where book 1 was sociological and book 2 was psychological, this book is decidedly centered on religious conflict. It's just  more akin to "tire stuck in a muddy rut" than typical epic fare; I don't really feel that the characters are moving toward a solution so much as anxiously spinning their wheels waiting until something happens. This book suffers a lot from Author Voice, which is a shorthand way of saying that Sanderson needs certain things to happen but the house that's been propped up to support that Something hasn't been well constructed and now just gets a magpie version of a foundation. I absolutely hate the epilogue and choose to ignore its existence.

That said, I'm looking forward to the next Mistborn installment. ^_^

Am currently re-reading Way of Kings. It wasn't a concentrated effort to re-read Sanderson, honest. Just happened that I was more interested in epic fantasy that didn't take itself 100% seriously but still built a fascinating story and world and, hey, Sanderson definitely fits that bill.

Next up: Blue Mars (FINALLY).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on January 29, 2011, 05:28:39 AM
Next up: Blue Mars (FINALLY).

Fuck. Yes. More old people sex!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on February 09, 2011, 05:32:04 PM
Very upset with news of Brian Jacques death.

I have a feeling I'm going to be upset for the next decade - all the prominent people important in shaping my reading and visual interests are getting up in age. Bleh, today is going to be an even grayer day.

I'm not sure if his death will bring his publishers more fortune, but I do have two Redwall books I need to replace - and they're pretty damned pricey.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 11, 2011, 02:53:09 PM
Warbreaker - So far so good aside from Vasher! I love the term "The Conception Chamber".
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on February 11, 2011, 08:38:31 PM
Finished The Way of Kings. Definitely see Hand of Sanderson in it, which is fun. It's like he has this one big story he wants to tell, but he hasn't yet figured out how to skin it. You can see elements of every other thing he's written (except maybe Alcatraz? I've never read any of them) in WoK. Looking forward to Book 2 in the Stormlight Archives, but with Wheel of Time and the new Mistborn story and everything else, I'm thinking it will be a while.

Before jumping into Blue Mars, I decided to re-read books 1 and 2 of the Dresden Files and cleaned them out within a few days. Entertaining as always. It's kind of curious how strongly Butcher embraced the pulp fiction formula. I always imagine that he has a checklist of phrases and observations and other story elements that must be included in each new book. Even so, the stories are entertaining, and so I will continue to read this. (Grumble, grumble about the next book being delayed from April or so to late July.)

Reading Blue Mars now, though. My thoughts on it right now are more along the lines of reacquainting myself with science fiction as a genre, because it is markedly different from fantasy, which I've been immersed in for the past few months.

Also picked up The Algebraist by Iain M. Banks. Andy's dad bought it for him for Christmas, and I saw it, so I picked it up.

It's... weird. I'm only 30 pages in yet, so I'll figure out something substantive to say about it later.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 14, 2011, 07:59:29 AM
Subtle.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on February 22, 2011, 03:43:48 PM
The Circus of the Damned
The Lunatic Cafe

Two more books in the Anita Blake series.  If you read my review of the last two, you might be wondering why I came back for more.  I'm...honestly not sure.  I think I may have just been craving a badass main character.  A main character who will openly declare "if you kill him, I'll stab you in the groin, watch you die, and not lose any sleep over it," and then follow through with her threat.  Anita Blake fits the bill.  And I did enjoy the books well enough, probably  for her badassery.  But I can't honestly say that I felt the books were quality.

Circus of the Damned, for instance, has a scene where Anita's car gets totaled, and then a scene after that where she drives out to meet someone.  I thought "Ok, maybe she got a rental and the author didn't mention it yet," but no: the very next scene has her catching a ride with someone else because she has yet to pick up a rental.  It's like the author shufled the scenes around and nobody caught it in editing.

There is one thing I want to credit Circus of the Damned for, though, and to talk about that, I'll first have to talk about Anne Rice's The Vampire Lestat.  The Vampire Lestat is basically Dragonball Z.  The plot can be sumarized "I'm over 400 years old", "I'm over 2000 years old", "They're over 6000 years old", "What, 6000?  There's no WAY that can be true."  Good stuff. I like numbers.  But I was disappointed by one small detail: not a single one of them was over nine thousand. :(

Circus of the Damned does have a vampire who's over nine thousand :).  Circus of the Damned has a vampire who is one million (aww yeah: that's like...second form Frieza).  Literally a Homo Erectus vampire.  And he's...actually a bit of a disappointment; doesn't do anything that the 1000 year old vampire from the first book couldn't do.  Oh well, at least Circus of the Damned makes up for Anita showing homophobia in previous books by having a cheerfully polyamorous character with a "harem" of men.  What was that line again?  Oh yes: "Feel free to make out with them on the way.  They're both very good."  In other stuff that made the book more entertaining, but harder to take seriously, the two main villains were named Alejandro (which made me think of the Lady Gaga song) and Oliver (which made me think of the musical).

Oh, one relatively rare aspect of vampire mythology that is used in Circus of the Damned: every vampire has affinity with a particular animal.  And master vampires command werecreatures of this type: wererats bowing to one master vampire, werewolves bowing to another, lamias bowing to a third.  Most likely inspired by Brahm Stoker's Dracula, of course (where Dracula could command Wolves and Rats), just not an aspect of the mytholgy that gets used very often.

You'll notice that almost all my talk so far has been on only Circus of the Damned; I...just don't have much to say about The Lunatic Cafe.  For one thing, it's mostly about werecreatures.  But more than that, I'm finding it less memorable, even though I just finished reading it an hour ago rather than a week ago; maybe because it didn't really have an impressive, dramatic, big-bad villain like the first three books in the series (Buffy season 6 all over again: where do you go with your plot after killing a one million year old Vampire?  Uhh...fight some total losers I guess).  One little thing it snuck in mythology-wise was each Vampire having some specialized unique powers--one being able to fly, while another can whither subordinate vampires into an emancipated state.  (Others authors have done the "unique/specialized powers by vampire" thing, of course; VtM, for instance).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on February 22, 2011, 06:43:21 PM
Finished The Algebraist. Turns out the early pages were very different from the rest of the pages. The story itself is a little boring, truth be told, but like all "space fantasy"/sci-fi hybrid novels it's all about the characters and the world that's built. I had a hard time visualizing any of the characters because many of them were just so alien that I couldn't be arsed to figure out how a 15-meter manta ray thing with hubs and frills was supposed to look and just saw them as amoeba. Still, it was entertaining enough. Not sure I'd highly recommend it, but it's worth a look. It may be your cup of tea where it wasn't really mine.

Focusing on Blue Mars again. I am a terrible heathen and this series is very hardcore sci-fi. Too much for me. I feel like I'd have a great grasp on Mars scientifically (or, well, its potential) if I could actually parse what was happening, but I can't and I don't. My eyes glaze over when Sax talks about the landscape, which often goes on for pages.

The political atmosphere at this point (~100 pages) is charged and intriguing. I'm hoping the PoV switches to someone a little more, uh, balanced (ie, not Anne or Sax) soon.

Once I finish Blue Mars, I'm entering study territory, which means Norton Anthology and GRE prep books. Reviews of excerpts of classics from all of English literary canon ahoy! (That, and Beowulf and its scholarship. Old English canon ahoy?)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 22, 2011, 09:20:59 PM
Blue Mars is mostly Anne and Sax' book, it will pan out by the end.  There is a few other perspectives but that is really most of them.

Also :( To not enjoying sexy sexy Sax Russel science.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on February 22, 2011, 09:46:53 PM
Ah, well. They're not terrible. Just alien mindsets. Ann's extremism is hard for me to relate to, and Sax's pure scientific mind is frequently more than I can understand.

I enjoy Sax when he thinks about his thinking. It's not that I don't like the science, per se, it's just I don't get it, so my mind freezes over when there are many words together that are directly scientific (vs. plot-movingly scientific). I don't think in kilometers because I am an Imperial heathen. I also do not think in Kelvin or millibars because I am an English major with very basic scientific understanding. So it takes actual brain power for me to read "Elevation 4.5 kilometers above the datum; air pressure 267 millibars. A high-pressure system indeed." and parse out whether that last sentence is sarcasm or solemn acknowledgment. Context only gets you so far, and when the context is equally as opaque? Well, you get the idea.

tl;dr: I'm too ignorant to appreciate what this book has to offer. <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on February 22, 2011, 11:49:54 PM
I'm sort of the same, Ash, but you can at least skim it and appreciate the thought process and detail that goes into it. If you can at least get a general idea of what he's talking about (THis is hot. I am up high. Etc) then you're fine.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 23, 2011, 07:24:58 AM
Sax doesn't do sarcasm.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on February 25, 2011, 09:54:28 PM
Borders near me is closing, so I went in and grabbed some discounted stuff. Not entirely what I hoped for, actually. Settled on second or third choices for pretty much everyone, but still good for a reading binge.

Bluebeard by Kurt Vonnegut (Was hoping for Timequake or Deadeye Dick)
The Dark Half by Steven King (Hoping for Everything's Eventual here. Wanted to read 1408)
Small Gods by Terry Pratchett (Unseen Academicals)
Candide by Voltaire (Impulse buy here. Was next to Vonnegut, also 5 bucks discounted to 3.50)

Was also gonna pick up Feast for Crows for the hell of it, but they were out.

Also picked up The Last Dragon on DVD. CAMP POWERS AHOY! The Shogun of Harlem must be appeased.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on February 25, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
Now, when I say, "Who's da mastah?" you say, "Sho'nuff!"


We must watch this at DLCon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on February 25, 2011, 10:15:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnsg0jDbHk4

Yes. We must.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on February 25, 2011, 10:38:20 PM
Thirded and passed.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 03, 2011, 06:02:51 PM
I recently picked up a couple of books since I felt like reading while travelling.

Bertrand Russel's Power is the first one, since I enjoy the man's style.  It's certainly an enjoyable read, though he's less arguing that power is the fundamental drive that explains human behaveour and has spent more time studying the history of various forms of power.  Though, I do have to admit, the idea that modern Europe and North America came to be possible because of a long drawn tie between the two primary ancient forms of power (ie, Kingly and Priestly) allowing for other forms to act as the kingmaker until economic power could effectively come up the middle and triumph.

But, since the two books are very different experiences, I'm basically reading both at the same time picking whichever one I feel like most at the moment, and the second is Dragon Keepers, by Robin Hobb.  Set mostly in the Rain Wilds right after the events of Fool's Fate, it's basically looking at how the group of them deal with Tintaglia saying screw you all, I got  a more enjoyable way to make dragons now.

Not entirely sure how this is going to play out, since I'm about halfway through, and the set up for the bigtrip on the back of the book hasn't even finished yet.  Granted, this is a decent chunk of set up, focused mostly on three characters, one of whom may, or may not, be a villain.  I'm currently betting on not, but it can go either way, and he's certainly better positioned to be a real threat than the ambiguously gay duo (hint, not ambiguous at all.  But the author's sure acting like it is).  Though, this brings me to the other thing.  I'm pretty sure that the big voyage to the city of dragons ain't going to be the focus of this book at all, and instead will be about the start of said trip, given how much focus bingtown traders have, and given how unlikely it is that they'll try for a route that isn't upriver, and therefore away from all of those traders.  Which, I suppose, makes sense given this is thefirst book in a two book series.

Which leaves the question, how are the Chalcedeans gonna screw things up, because they're always the villains!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 03, 2011, 06:24:26 PM
!!!!

http://georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

!!!

George R.R. Martin, you're a bastard for the way you keep tugging fans around, but goddamnit I can't help but continue to read A Song of Ice and Fire.

IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 03, 2011, 11:34:05 PM
Effing sweet.

I can finally pick up A Feast For Crows, on that note.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 04, 2011, 04:32:43 AM
I'm going to have to re-read all four to remember what in the hell's going on, aren't I?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on March 04, 2011, 04:34:26 AM
Almost certainly.

Myself, I find it funny how much I would have cared about this announcement 5 years ago and how little I care about it now. Ah well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 04, 2011, 05:58:05 AM
So does this mean that the betting pool on GRRM's death have started up?  Given his current release schedule, I figure any time in the next six years should be good for him to pass on before finishing the series (Assuming he's still on target for six books.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on March 05, 2011, 08:45:57 AM
I'm basically reading both at the same time picking whichever one I feel like most at the moment, and the second is Dragon Keepers, by Robin Hobb.

My copy of this just came today and jumped to the front of the book line!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 05, 2011, 08:56:24 AM
Just reached the end of it today.  It's pretty much all setup, but it's Robin Hobb style setup, so this is not a bad thing.  And I have to admit, she chose a good breaking point for the book since the twist at the end is nice.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 05, 2011, 01:26:52 PM
So yeah, just finished reading A Game of Thrones.  Nice little book, that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: hinode on March 05, 2011, 02:01:27 PM
So does this mean that the betting pool on GRRM's death have started up?  Given his current release schedule, I figure any time in the next six years should be good for him to pass on before finishing the series (Assuming he's still on target for six books.)

Seven books planned, actually. Wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being eight, since book six is supposedly going to include all the surviving PoVs from 4+5... unless Dance With Dragons is going to be a total bloodbath, that's an insane number of PoV chars.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 06, 2011, 07:47:13 AM
From what I hear, by the end of Book 6 the only surviving character will be Eddard Stark who is now possessing the runt who would be king.  The seventh book will be about his epic quest to tame the dragons by beating their king in a thumb wrestling match before riding the Dragon-king into an epic battle against the frostwraiths while dual wielding Valyrian Steel greatswords.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 06, 2011, 10:56:07 AM
You forget to mention that the outcome of the final fight will be decided by a coin flip 3 days before printing starts on the books.  He will have to write 2 different endings so that printing can begin immediately.  He will finish all the books barring the second ending and take 27 months to write the final possible ending.  That will be the ending that is not chosen by the coin flip.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on March 13, 2011, 04:22:57 AM
From what I hear, by the end of Book 6 the only surviving character will be Eddard Stark who is now possessing the runt who would be king.  The seventh book will be about his epic quest to tame the dragons by beating their king in a thumb wrestling match before riding the Dragon-king into an epic battle against the frostwraiths while dual wielding Valyrian Steel greatswords.

Nah, I doubt he's planned out stuff like plot.  He's probably only planned the sex scenes.

Incidentally, is it too early to nickname the upcoming book "Sex with dragons"?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on March 13, 2011, 04:27:38 AM
Glad I stopped reading where I did.

Robin Hobb's new series "Dragons Having Sex" is much better.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 21, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
Finished Blue Mars last week, but haven't had the time to gather my thoughts about it. I will say WTF to that stream of consciousness section, though. Trippy ending.

--

Back to the Dresden Files for my trashy reading. Book 3 currently, almost finished. Still a good time - guilty pleasure reading, that's for sure.

Especially when you compare it to the reading I'm doing to study for the GREs, my research paper, refreshing Latin/Old English and starting French and German, and reading general industry criticism. Flipping between "Harry Dresden beats down the dream demons" and "Dextram Dei, digniorem partem: Unseating the Mighty and Exalting the Humble in the Vita of Christina of Markyate" is amusing, to say the least.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 21, 2011, 11:54:53 PM
I hope you enjoyed it.  The Mars trilogy still makes me excited just thinking about it (I am sure that shocks you what with me buying it and giving it away and stuff).  It does me good to know people read it even if they do have to sort of nod and smile at the science bits.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on March 22, 2011, 12:35:43 AM
Just finished reading "The Heart of Darkness", by Joseph Conrad. Interesting little experience.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 25, 2011, 11:41:45 PM
I did enjoy it! It was very far outside of my normal SF/F reading circuit, but that's a good thing. A really good thing. I didn't quite realize how same-y my reading had become.

I tend to separate my tastes in terms of mood -- "I'm in the mood for an epic fantasy," or, "I'd like to read some supernatural mystery," or "I really want to read something with a little art to it." The Mars trilogy fits in the vein I'll call "Classics." It is good, and it is hard, and you have to work a little to get to the meat of it. It's rewarding, but goddamn if it isn't an effort sometimes.

SPOILER WARNING for the upcoming rant. I don't feel like singling out what's spoiler-y, so read ahead at your own risk. I try to stay vague.

This, too, is because of my background. I enjoy science a great deal, but science jargon is one of those things I never could wrap my mind around. This is why the pages and pages of geological description made my eyes glaze over. I also tripped over making conversions. This is definitely a heathen American thing, but I don't think in kilometers - I have no concept of scale for something that is 150 km tall. Ditto, as I've mentioned, science measurements like millibars and Kelvin. That's my own failing, and being confronted with your own inadequacies while reading automatically shifts it from "pleasure read" to "deeper effort required."

It was worth it. The explorations of the ethics, psychology, sociology, ecology, physics, academics -- you name it, if it's an aspect of human culture it was covered in here -- were really amazing. The breadth of what was covered is such that some pieces lost depth in favor of the details with which I assume the author was particularly familiar, which is likely why it felt like it skipped a beat here and there. All the same, it really dug at the "What if?" that makes sci fi such an enjoyable genre when it's taken on the literary slant. What if humans could live on Mars? What if the planet Earth faced a catastrophe? What if scientists ruled the (new) world? What if you could live forever? What if we could colonize the solar system - or beyond?

THAT is what made it a worthwhile read. I do highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys science fiction, or science, or humans being human. Just be warned you might end up having to think a little.

END SPOILER WARNING.

I'll get that book in the mail to you, m.c.

--

In trashy novel news, because I've got plenty of thinking to do while I brush up on all of the English literary canon, I'm on book 5 of the Dresden Files.

These books are so very painfully obviously written by someone who learned what a formulaic novel looked like. Romance and pulp mystery galore. There are plenty of catch-phrases, and those delightful moments where the narrator "cleverly" reminds you about the basics you should already know if you've been reading the series, just so you don't have to worry your pretty little head about remembering details. Knowing what this novel is -- a pulp fantasy mystery -- allows me to forgive its literary shortcomings and just enjoy the way Jim Butcher handles his characters and plotlines.

I can knock about 1/4-1/2 of one back on the bus ride to and from work, so I'm going through them -very- quickly. Fine by me. There are 12, I think, with another one due out late this summer.

Book 4 is one of my favorites because it heavily focuses on faerie/sidhe. Book 5 is the first that really ups the stakes, and makes it very clear that while these novels are fine as stand-alones, there's a very long-term over-arching plot that makes up Harry's life story. THAT is what keeps me reading.

--

Will start re-read Song of Ice and Fire as soon as I find Book 1.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 26, 2011, 01:28:39 AM
Hooray.  Now can you imagine what it is like doing a Psychology degree and seeing elements of Michel Duval in yourself?  Definitely one of the reasons I woke up and realised that life is hilarious and not to take it to seriously.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 07, 2011, 07:39:18 PM
The Vampire Tapestry - Suzy McKee Charnas

Let me start out by saying: this is literature.  And like other literature I've read recently, I read through this a lot slower than the mass market paperback novels.  It is a collection of linked novellas, including The Unicorn Tapestry (which won a Nebula Award).  In fact, if I had to guess, I'd guess that she wrote the rest of the book after The Unicorn Tapestry because she wanted to pad that story out into a book.  And to be honest, you could probably just read that 20% of the novel and get most of the value out of the work.

First, let's talk about the vampire mythology of this piece, as it's very atypical.  Always with vampire mythologies there is a question of how does the infection spread--if vampires could change us just by biting, wouldn't we all be vampires by now?  Answers vary from "The human needs some extra spark or the change will fail" to "causing the change is physically difficult" to "the change is shunned in vampire society; why would you wish this on another?"  The Vampire Tapestry adds another variant: "the change is impossible", which results in a very different dynamic.  Dr Weyland is the only vampire in existance.  He suspects he may be a product of nature or evolution, but he is not sure.  He doesn't have fangs (canine teeth being primarily evolved for ripping flesh...which means they're quite impractical for drinking human blood), rather he has something more reminiscent of a mosquito's probiscus--kind of a needle that he hides below his tongue.  He can go out in the sunlight just fine--which is appropriate for a vampire with a scientifically plausible origin.  He's not immune to bullets--in fact a couple of them nearly kill him.  He's strong within the range of terrestrial biology (so musculature and ligaments are attached in more efficient ways).  He has decades-long hybernation cycles, which purge his past human memories.  It’s very much a science fiction vampire.

But as unique as the mythology is, it's not the selling point of The Vampire Tapestry to me.  That would be the psychology.  Much of the book revolves around the psychoanalysis of the solitary hunter.  Notably, the Unicorn Tapestry asks the quesiton: if you put the solitary hunter into psychotherapy, is that a bad thing?  Modern psychology is designed to make the client act more human, more social--but what if your client isn't human, and to act more human would be damaging to the client?  The perspective of the solitary hunter is not really a perspective I'm used to considering; I was frequently surprised while reading--accustomed to my characters being social animals.  It's definitely an interesting change of pace.  And not one explored much in other vampire literature (where vampires typically are social).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 09, 2011, 04:35:11 AM
I've never enjoyed a store going out of business so much! Guilty pleasures.

The Borders near me that's closing has hit 60% off, so I figured I'd pick up some of those books I'd been interested in but didn't feel like buying at full price. The haul:

Jack Whyte's Camulod Chronicles (The Skystone, The Singing Sword, The Eagles' Brood, The Saxon Shore)
Stephen Baxter's Manifold: Time
David Brin's Sundiver and Startide Rising
John Scalzi's Agent to the Stars
Sarah Monette and Elizabeth Bear's A Companion to Wolves

All for less than $40 (and that's when you add in the 3 manga Andrew picked up, too).

--

On White Night of the Dresden Files. I left it in the car last night, so I had to take something else to read on the bus, and I picked up Green Rider. I read it before, waaaaay back before book 2 was published. I remember liking it, but I think I like it in the same way I liked Time Cat or Dark Lord of Derkhelm (anyone else read those books?): it's amusing and somewhat juvenile. Kristen Britain's style is unrefined, but I enjoy the worlds. Perhaps that's why I choose fantasy so much over anything else. It's just so damn forgiving a writing system, as long as you hit some world-building notes right.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 09, 2011, 04:40:24 AM
Be ready to swoop in on DVDs when it hits 70-80% off. Good times. You paid 30.95! You saved 92.85!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on April 10, 2011, 01:04:33 AM
On White Night of the Dresden Files. I left it in the car last night, so I had to take something else to read on the bus, and I picked up Green Rider. I read it before, waaaaay back before book 2 was published. I remember liking it, but I think I like it in the same way I liked Time Cat or Dark Lord of Derkhelm (anyone else read those books?): it's amusing and somewhat juvenile. Kristen Britain's style is unrefined, but I enjoy the worlds. Perhaps that's why I choose fantasy so much over anything else. It's just so damn forgiving a writing system, as long as you hit some world-building notes right.

Sometimes I wish I didn't care so much about stylistics and writing skill.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 10, 2011, 01:25:44 AM
You really should get over that, it helps enjoy so much more media.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on April 10, 2011, 04:15:58 AM
Books are the one media I just can't get pulpy with, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 10, 2011, 08:52:17 AM
That is a shame because that is most of what is there for easy consumption.

Give up and learn to love the Hickman.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 11, 2011, 03:12:20 PM
There are writers with great stylistics and writing skill who happen to write pulp-y novels.  Gail Carriger jumps to mind.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on April 13, 2011, 12:29:20 AM
Finished Warbreaker. It's pretty cool, I want to read the sequel. You guys had me all anticlimaxed up for the book's end, I thought the ending was going to be terribad, but it's not even as bad as Mistborn 1's (horrible) ending! I am so happy/disappointed.

Maybe what I am trying to say is that it doesn't blip on the Sanderson terrible ending writing radar.

(I am referring specifically to the last ~10 pages of the book. The last 10% is pretty bad. >_>;;)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on April 15, 2011, 01:38:28 PM
Reading more Terry Pratchett~

I've just kind of been reading them as I borrow them from the one foreigner in (my podunk area of) Japan who has a library worth raiding. Consequently, I just read Maskerade (a fun Discworld version of Phantom of the Opera where the character Agnes Nitt gets her start as a opera singer witch), and now I'm moving onto the awesomely-named Carpe Jugulum (seems to be the next book chronologically in the series, as Agnes is now in the early stages of witchhood).

The amusing part about this is that obviously the chronologically-earlier novel Maskerade was written WELL after Carpe Jugulum. This has the amusing effect of all of the characters seeming much more nuanced and mature IN THEIR PAST SELVES. Of course, it's Discworld, so who's to say that people don't naturally become less mature as they get older?*

*Mr. Pratchett would probably include a footnote here about how it tends to work that way in our own Earth, too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 15, 2011, 04:02:44 PM
Maskerade: 1995
Carpe Jugulum: 1998

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 16, 2011, 12:50:03 AM
Maskerade is just a really well written book, not much more to say about it other than that.  The witches bring out the worst in Agnes because as a potential witch she is innately far more practical and sensible than your normal person in the Discworld.  Just compared to Granny and Nanny she has nothing on them.  It rubs her the wrong way.  She still feels like everything should be super serious and they know that nothing is serious at all so it isn't worth getting worked up over/everything is way super serious and you don't have time to worry about silly things like appearance and a name.  Edit - Um that is why she seems more mature in Maskerade than Carpe Jugulum, because she spends the whole damned book near Nanny Ogg compared to Maskerade where she spends tons of time near Opera people who are bat shit crazy stupid.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on April 16, 2011, 03:39:38 AM
And then she quietly is never seen again in the Tiffany Aching books.  That said, those are lovely.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on April 16, 2011, 10:20:08 AM
Maskerade: 1995
Carpe Jugulum: 1998

Just sayin'.

Weird. I would have expected more continuity there. It's still jarring how different Agnes and Nanny Ogg are in Carpe Jugulum from their Maskerade selves.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 17, 2011, 12:33:40 AM
They... are?  Honestly don't see it.  Might be more exposure to Nanny Ogg though?  Dunno.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on April 17, 2011, 06:38:36 AM
A Game of Thrones:  Enjoyed.  Kind of sad what happens to the Starks, but hey, things can only get better for them from here, right?  Right?

Anyway, bought the next three books based on the strength of the first one.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 25, 2011, 11:49:38 PM
Finished Dresden Files. Man, I forgot what a complete clusterfuck the most recent book was. Can't wait to see how the one coming out this summer moves on from that.

Also finished Agent to the Stars this weekend. Obviously a junior novel, but just as obviously by a writer who knows what he's doing. I would never call the crafting a masterpiece, but it's still an enjoyable read. Good dialogues.

Started The Camulod Chronicles with The Skystone. This is actually a great way for me to slide into studying for my research papers and things for grad school apps, in a way, since its history is my history (only fictionalized). It's a bit dry so far, and from what I recall with my brief reads 10 years ago it strays into prurience at times, but that's kind of expected from someone who's trying to be "authentic."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on April 25, 2011, 11:56:40 PM
A Game of Thrones:  Enjoyed.  Kind of sad what happens to the Starks, but hey, things can only get better for them from here, right?  Right?

Rule of thumb with George RR Martin: if they haven't been turned into blind zombies enslaved into prostitution, then they probably haven't hit rock bottom.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on April 26, 2011, 02:08:23 AM
Nah, the touchstone of Martin is that whatever a perspective character wants to happen won't, which has the odd effect of making chapters about total douche bags more entertaining.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on April 27, 2011, 01:12:37 AM
I'm on the second book now, and I kind of just want to skip ahead and read the Arya chapters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on April 27, 2011, 03:36:06 AM
Reading One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest for the first time since High School.

Looking back, I'm surprised how quickly the lens of crazy the book is told through is glossed over in favor of deconstruction of machine symbolism and how the book is a condemnation of organized society because machines.

And yeah, it is, but totally glossing over the whole "novel being told through s lens of delusional paranoid psychosis" does it quite the disservice.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 14, 2011, 07:51:31 PM
Fires of Heaven - Hey what if we write a book and omit my least favorite character in the series? Awesome things happen. I'm ready for Book 6, less ready for Perrin to come back.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 17, 2011, 09:14:15 PM
Assassin's Apprentice - Fun romp for sure. The end in particular hooked me in.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 02, 2011, 04:44:47 PM
Picked up the two newer League of Extraordinary Gentlemen books on vacation. Century 1910 was okay, but Black Dossier was amazing. "What Ho, Gods of the Abyss!" is very likely the greatest English-language work of all time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on June 03, 2011, 12:45:45 AM
A Clash of Kings - This book lost a lot of what worked in Game of Thrones, namely that it *wasn't* high fantasy.  Magic is talked about anecdotally by the characters, but it's really just old wives tales and such.  GoT has some zombies at the beginning (which you quickly forget about), a guy with a flaming sword (which you later learn wasn't magic either), and then the stuff with Daenrys.  Which worked because you were like, hey, there is some magic in the world.  Then you get to the second book and there's magic shit everywhere.  Wolf dreams (been there done that, thanks), shapeshifters, and all the shit with the R'lyeh worshippers.  It really kills the mood of the series.

A Storm of Swords - Better than the second book.  I'm predicting that by the end of the series, Arya will be a shapeshifting facechanging 11-year-old master assassin.

*starts reading the fourth book*

Holy shit, I was right.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on June 03, 2011, 05:35:04 AM
A Clash of Kings - This book lost a lot of what worked in Game of Thrones, namely that it *wasn't* high fantasy.  Magic is talked about anecdotally by the characters, but it's really just old wives tales and such.  GoT has some zombies at the beginning (which you quickly forget about), a guy with a flaming sword (which you later learn wasn't magic either), and then the stuff with Daenrys.  Which worked because you were like, hey, there is some magic in the world.  Then you get to the second book and there's magic shit everywhere.  Wolf dreams (been there done that, thanks), shapeshifters, and all the shit with the R'lyeh worshippers.  It really kills the mood of the series.

QFT. It might not be so bad except Martin sucks at writing magic. Needs to stick to the things he does well (since, well, he does them pretty damn well in some cases).

Way of Kings - About halfway done! I have some reservations about it which I won't elaborate on until I'm done, but despite them it just has that Sanderson effect of keeping me reading at a quick pace, so in the end I doubt I'll be able to complain about too much.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 03, 2011, 06:54:00 PM
UPDATE: Speaking of Alan Moore being awesome, Top Ten is great.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 03, 2011, 08:17:34 PM
UPDATE: Speaking of Alan Moore being awesome, Top Ten is great.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on June 03, 2011, 08:50:47 PM
Yes, yes it is and everyone should read it. On that note, *avatar change*. (Best shot I could find, sadly.) I haven't read the last volume of it, honestly don't have much interest--haven't read much good about what the new writer did with it and it's damned hard to imagine someone else writing the cast properly, period. Initial twelve-issue run is fucking brilliant though. Spin-offs are very worth checking out if you like it--Smax is a lot of fun, Forty-Niners is just rather decent--but anyone with a functioning sense of humor should really try the first run. It's the best sort of humor, in my opinion: the kind generated spontaneously by a cast with perfect chemistry (the multitude of comic book in-jokes are great as well, mind). Mind, since this is Alan Moore writing about cops in a big city, there's plenty of nastiness and drama as well, but ultimately it's the dialogue that sticks with me most vividly.

Are the newer League books worth looking into for someone who didn't really dig the first two volumes? (It was such a cooler idea in theory than it was in practice. The only really great thing about it was Mina being a Badass Normal who kept a gang of lunatics functioning through force of will. Of course the movie shat all over that.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 04, 2011, 01:23:09 AM
Black Dossier is very weird, but mostly in a good way. The comic part focuses on Alan and Mina, the only remnants of the 1898 League, but they've changed so much at this point that they might as well be Moore's own creations. So the focus is on supporting cast members and cameos to keep the whole theme of a shared fictional universe going, which they do, but a rather generic (if well-written) action-hero couple mucking around in a world full of people like James Bond, Big Brother and Emma Peel is a bit different from Mina Harker/Murray, Henry Hyde, Hawley Griffin, Nemo and Alan Quatermain fighting Fu Manchu, as high concepts go.

The high point is the non comic part. There's a ton of background material on Leagues past and present, mostly prose, including a testimonial from Fanny Hill on her time in Lemuel Gulliver's League, or the absolutely amazing Jeeves/Lovecraft crossover that I mentioned as being the best thing ever written.

If you didn't particularly care for the first two volumes I wouldn't bother with Century, though. Unless you're a big Threepenny Opera fan.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 06, 2011, 12:56:42 AM
Lord of Chaos: Delightful and awesome, favorite Wheel of Time book so far. One downside is Mat -- I think we could have replaced all his internal monologue with WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHIIIINE and nothing about the story would have changed. He acts like a five year old who was told he couldn't get a lollipop. The Perrin relationship angst was not my favorite, but this is my favorite Perrin book so far. A mild amount of POV from him is best, I guess, and it was used well. I loved the Salidar stuff and especially everything Egwene-related. She's definitely my second favorite character in the series after Rand. Mat has definitely dropped after this book; his point of views were just genuinely painful to read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 06, 2011, 04:45:03 AM
Started Book 7 this evening.

"The chronicles could hardly record the years of the Last Battle without mentioning the Dragon Reborn, but she knew that one name would be written larger than all others. Elaida do Avriny a’Roihan, youngest daughter of a minor House in the north of Murandy, would go down in history as the greatest and most powerful Amyrlin Seat of all time. The most powerful woman in the history of the world. The woman who saved humankind."

Possibly my favorite quote from the series so far.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on June 06, 2011, 05:42:04 AM
Way of Kings - I enjoyed it and I want to read more. Certainly am not yet willing to put it on Mistborn's level, but it's not like I think Eye of the World is the greatest thing ever either, and... this could certainly go places.

What I didn't like as much:

Some of it is pacing. Basically there are three main characters; cool fine. Two of them disappear for large portions of the book, so there are really two at any one time, and those two constantly swap. For some reason this bugs me a bit. It probably doesn't help which the one PoV that stuck around the entire book (Kaladin) was also the weakest. Just has a few too many Gary Stu traits (He is an amazing fighter! So amazing he kills a shardbearer! And he is the saviour of Bridge 4! Basically nothing can really stop him and his only real enemy is tendency to doubt himself.) and none of his supporting cast is especially interesting. (whereas the other stories have Jasnah and Sadeas who are both pretty cool) I think the only thing which prevents his story from being super-generic is his backstory being thrown in there. Rounds him out a fair deal.

What I did like:

It kept me reading certainly! Whatever I thought of the different points of view I never really wanted to put this book down, I finished it in about a week or so which is fast for me even before considering that this is, like, the longest book ever. Some very solid plot twists, blah blah Sanderson is good at these. Morality and honour is a big theme of the book and I like the way it was explored. The last ~50 pages was exceptionally good and I generally haven't -ever- said that about a Brandon Sanderson novel before (well, aside from The Gathering Storm if that counts). And I like that the book sorta has this overarching feeling of dread; the surface stories are mundane enough but there's some seriously epically Bad Things Waiting to Happen which all the points of view hint at and I generally liked the mood and how it sets things up for a longer series. All in all it... generally does everything a first book in a mega-series can be expected to do. I just hope future books either have less Kaladin or his PoVs get better, but both feel very possible.

Also, despite my aforementioned anger at the fact that Dalinar and Shallan are dropped for a long time? The fact that Shallan is dropped in part 4 pays off in a big way as the entire bread-jam-poison sequence is revealed to ahve actually gone down nothing like we thought when we finally get back to her, and I don't think this would have worked as well without 300 pages of us assuming we knew what had happened there, but there wasn't really much Shallan stuff that could have been put in the middle.

Top five characters (alphabetical order, although... could be the real order too! Certainly #5 is #5):
Dalinar, Jasnah, Sadeas, Shallan, Szeth

Top five scenes (major spoilers). These are in order.
1. "You soulcast while I had your soulcaster stolen"
2. Dalinar slaps sense into Elkohar. The entire scene, with bonus points for being punctuated with "by the way I am dating your mother".
3. Dalinar and Sadeas' chat after the betrayal. Mm politicky goodness, I am going to enjoy this.
4. Jasnah's entrapment soulcast-murderers-in-the-face episode, and the discussion that follows.
5. The prologue (millenia ago). Can't really justify this one, but I thought it was a good hook and set up an intriguing world.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 06, 2011, 09:51:23 AM
Spoilers for book 8, but that stuff totally happens and she is the new main character.  The part where she kills Egwene straight up is the best part in the series.  Who needs magic when you can impale someone on a candelabra?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 06, 2011, 10:38:33 PM
That woman has iiiiiiiiiiiissues.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 08, 2011, 08:19:52 PM
Crown of Swords - Finished. Don't judge me. Probably the weirdest book in the series, starts with a bang and ends with a whimper. Why the heck was the Ebou Dar arc not completed? Just bizzaro. Not sure what I think of the book as a whole; it has some great stuff, but it devolves into mediocrity after a while.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on June 11, 2011, 06:51:38 AM
A Feast for Crows:  Well, I'm going to be blunt here.  This book was terrible.  Too many new characters, none of them the least bit interesting.  Reading the afterword, Martin says he wrote enough to fill two books, and decided to put half the characters in each.  And here it is six years later and the other book still isn't out?  This was a colossal fuckup from a design standpoint.  Just because you wrote an entire chapter of Areo Hotah making love to his axe doesn't mean anyone else wants to read it.  And somehow he even made the Arya chapters suck.  How do you manage to screw up Arya?

The only bright part of the book is Jaime, whose character has matured a great deal from its beginnings.  Really nice to see how he develops once he's been exposed to humility (and honor).

So to summarize:

A Game of Thrones:  Great
A Clash of Kings:  Poor
A Storm of Swords:  Good
A Feast for Crows:  About as pretty as Sandor Clegane x Tyrion yaoi.

Also, it's a pity Ser Ilyn Payne is mute.  That is an awesome name for a rapper.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 13, 2011, 04:02:12 AM
Way of Kings: Took me ages to read it, due to the length and some of the PoV shifting. The last 150 pages (where Iw as stuck for ages) did quite a lot to relieve my worries about the book. Kaladin grew on me some later, but I really strongly prefer Kelsier or Raoden as mains. He still owns Vasher. Fuck Vasher.


Top five characters:

1. Dalinar
2. Sadeas
3. Jasnah
4. Shallan
5. Kaladin- In spite of the flaws, he did his job well enough and has room for improvement.

Top five scenes, spoilers.


1. Sadeas reveals his motivation for betraying Dalinar. He really is trying to do what he thinks is right for the king and his country in his own way. Kaladin had a great line about likable bastards being the hardest to kill, and this applies to Sadeas.
2. Szeth finds out who his master is. What a brutal fucking scene.
3. Jasnah is confronted by Shallan about the soulcaster. Great scene.
4. Kaladin in the highstorm. Very stylish.
5. Dalinar confronts the king, owns him hardcore.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 13, 2011, 04:44:18 PM
Let's see, what have I been reading lately...

Sunshine by Robin McKinley. Maybe I was just in the right mood when I picked this up, but I LOVED this book. It's vampires, but it's vampires I -like-. It's got a few weird romance moments that I'll pretend don't exist (or exist differently, anyway, since sexual tension is important), but I really really loved the character who told the story. She's a believably flawed protagonist. The world is sort of post-apocalyptic, except with the hope that humans can pull it out of the gutter in this end game. It's got "corrupt" cops, curious relationships, and plenty of juice. I actually expected this to be set-up for a series. Apparently it's not?

Deerskin also by Robin McKinley. This one is very different, but it's closer to what I've found out are McKinley's roots: fairy tale re-imaginings. This one's based on an obscure tale, though, so it's enjoyable in its own right. It's a little more muddy than Sunshine was, but that's part of the charm; the character herself being lost/undefined as a person is a central plot point - she's starting to figure herself out as the book begins. I like princess stories. That helps.

Did a re-read of Old Man's War/Ghost Brigades/Last Colony. Read Fuzzy Nation. All those are by John Scalzi. Entertaining! That's what I like.

Awaiting the release of Dresden Files book #13 and the next installment in Song of Ice and Fire. Rest of my summer reading is non-fiction sadness -- business books -- and classic lit in preparation for the GRE.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 29, 2011, 02:16:41 PM
The Historian: Ultimately disappointing. Elisabeth Kostova is a talented writer, but not so much a talented novelist. Her prose is great - rich without being flowery or ostentatiously wordy. But her storytelling gets so bogged down in the historical minutiae that she loses the driving thread of the plot for chapters at a time. When we do see vampires they're done very well, but the atmosphere you need in order for this to be a supernatural story, instead of just a book with vampires in it, isn't there. And what is there tends to be dry. I subscribe to history journals and I still got sick of the details of early-modern Romanian history and monastic pilgrimages by the halfway point. Almost all of the story is told through one character reading another character's journals -- some of it through one character reading another characters journals in which he details reading another character's journals -- which is just clunky as hell, but I chalk that up to the first-novel learning curve.

Also, I bought a hundred dollars' worth of comics instead of going for games at DLCon.

Atomic Robo vol. 1 and Atomic Robo and the Shadow From Beyond Time: It's Atomic fuckin' Robo. Read it. Love it. Brian Clevinger is amazing, and the art is universally excellent. I really need to get my hands on the fourth and fifth volumes; even if I wasn't sure they were great, how can you not love books called "Atomic Robo and the Revenge of the Vampire Dimension" (which also has Dr. Dinosaur (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/07/24/free-comic-book-day-2009/)) or "Atomic Robo and the Deadly Art of Science"?

Planetary: Strange Worlds - crossovers with The Authority and the Justice League. Really good stuff. The JLA crossover is full-on alternate universe for both groups, but it still answers one of the few dangling teasers from the main series.

Sleeper - finally finished this. Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips tell a damn fine crime story, the main character's identity crisis is extremely well-explored, and they make it work with the Wildstorm universe to boot - It's even got Grifter! Remember him? Highly recommended. I may reread it again just to focus on Miss Misery's character, because she was excellent.

Edit: In case you need a reason to read Atomic Robo, and I didn't show you this page at the con:

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm3uneVsMC1qclcjb.jpg)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 30, 2011, 07:14:25 AM
Neuromancer - trying to catch up on my classic sci fi.  Good read, but it suffers considerably in the beginning from Noir-itis.  That's where the writer gets so involved in describing the sensual details of a place, becomes so obsessed with fitting the reader into the character's shoes, letting the reader taste the acrid smoke, the damp stink of the acid rain and so on an so forth that the writer forgets that action scenes need to be described in such a way that the reader has a hope of understanding on a very basic level what is going on.  It gets better as it goes, though.  One of those books that feels underwhelming because its interesting ideas have become so well-known.  Which is to say I've played Shadowrun.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 30, 2011, 07:29:54 AM
I misread that as it suffers considerably in the beginning from Noir Tits and was going to call you out on the fact that without tits Noir isn't nearly pulpy enough to be frue Noir.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 10, 2011, 02:24:15 AM
I read the first volume of Gunsmith Cats on the plane ride into Austin, and liked it enough that I picked up and finished the rest of the omnibi. It's a really good series. Great art, action sequences with a real feeling of motion, fun characters, lots and lots of gun/car porn if you're into that sort of thing. A bit of the regular stuff, too.

I need to pick up Burst sometime, and should rewatch the OVA and Riding Bean now that I know the source material.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on July 10, 2011, 05:56:42 AM
Gunsmith Cats

Bitchin'.  I need to read more of that, but what I have of it is a jumble of the old American comic book-sized issues, and I'm too stubborn to buy a squinty-sized version of a manga I've started reading in the old format.  'Cept the ones they stopped making American-sized issues of partway through.  (Curse you, Cardcaptor Sakura, Blade of the Immortal, Battle Angel Alita: Last Order, Inu Yasha, and particularly Ranma 1/2!)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 12, 2011, 06:38:20 PM
On the list:

The Complete Sherlock Holmes, Volume I
The Complete Sherlock Holmes, Volume II
A Song of Ice and Fire (A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons)
Those graphic novels Jim gave me, as soon as I figure out where Andrew hid them...

What I just finished:

Daughter of the Blood
Heir to the Shadows
Queen of the Darkness
(all part of the Black Jewels Trilogy)

I'm not entirely sure how I felt about it. I think I enjoyed it? I know I finished reading it in ~4 days. It was weirdly prurient, though, and very obviously a book from (primarily) men's point of view written by a female.

The concept was well realized. I felt like the story flirted repeatedly with being Good, but never quite surpassed Adequate. As for characters, I loved Daemon, and Jaenelle was interesting though you never -really- got to know her -- that was the point -- and the supporting cast was entertaining. It's a shame the villains were so hideously one-sided. The arc about Jaenelle's real family was well handled, I thought, and the thread that trailed out all the way to the end was a fascinating study in relationships and power. The real shame is that's about it. And the author repeatedly used the same phrases and techniques. I shudder to think how many times the word "snarl" was used. Or how frequently the males groaned about the females' behavior being unfathomable, or so hilarious but they had to hold it back because... (well, I don't think I ever really figured that out. fear for their well-being?).

Eh. Well. Entertaining. Not sure I'd recommend it.

(EDITED)

Oh lord. Not only is it more than a trilogy, it has like ten books in the series. I'm not sure whether my completist morbid curiosity can handle that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on July 13, 2011, 05:01:24 AM
What kind of story is it? The titles make me think "Vampire", but they're pretty vague even for vampire novels.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 13, 2011, 05:11:55 AM
Not vampires. It's... magic? With jewels? And demons/the dead? Mainly witches and magic (and dragons and demons and telepathic animals). It's unique, but it really, really made me think of Soul Eater, if you're familiar with that at all. Not the "weapons" concept - but witches, and spiders, and dreams, and the kind of power they can use.

It's heralded mainly for its inversion of male/female power structures, but I honestly think that's a cop out. It's just called that because the Queen witches are the ones with ultimate power, and the males are support/in harems/for use by the queens, etc. I don't feel it really stretched in any new directions of gender roles, just sort of flip-flopped bits and pieces of typical male power vs. typical female power. For example: raping women still breaks them, only this time it breaks their inner magic as well.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 19, 2011, 04:46:45 AM
A Dance With Dragons: ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH Martin whhhhhy must you keep writing in circles? He's become so obsessed with giving the reader EVERYTHING in the big picture that it lacks any real focus. Plus, there's very, very little resolution to anything, both internally and metaplot. There are some bones thrown in for questions from the end of Feast for Crows, but the book raises far more questions than it answers. It seems like the whole thing is a setup for Winds of Winter... what a bloody, fucking 1900 page cocktease (counting FfC).

I'll grant him the book was good for a while, until it became apparant that he had no desire to resolve anything here and waste whatever seeming potential he had. But honestly, due to this NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENS. It also has a habit of introducing backstory characters that were supposed to be dead.  From here on, thar be spoilers...

Jon: This wasn't all that bad a read. There's legitimate things happening, but it ends up repeating itself in spirit over and over. The conclusion was interesting at least, and I'm wondering how that'll go.

Stannis: Lots of buildup, no resolution. As far as the siege of Storm's End? NOTHING. Nothing on Loras Tyrell's maiming or even anything on the battle. Less even than FfC!

Davos: Questions answered! Yay! Then he's not in the book at all! Boo!

Daenerys: Interesting at first, but follows the same path as Jon's in that it ends up being the same things over and over, although slightly more things happen here. But there's a slightly unsatisfying climax that you think is gonna be AWESOME and then Martin doesn't follow through on it. After that it's all "Where's Daenerys?" cause she is fucking Poochie from The Simpsons. "Whenever Poochie isn't on the screen, all the characters should be asking, 'Where's Poochie?'"

Barristan Selmy: Yep. He becomes the PoV after a point, and while he actually DOES something, the real potential for it is left for the next book.

Arya: YAY! This was a satisfying conclusion to the events of FfC at least.

Jaime: Iiiiiiiinteresting. One chapter and dissapears though.

Bran: Fuck. Bran. Reaches the Three-Eyed Crow and then disappears halfway through. The crannogmen might even be leaving! WTF!

Dorne: HAHAHAHAHAHA fuck Dorne. So much wasted potential here in Quentyn Martell in a truely Martin fashion. Though I guess I can respect him keeping himself honest.

Tyrion: More wasted potential. Vastly. Disappointing. Redeems himself slightly near the end.

Cersei: More of CERSEI. IS. BOWSER. Out of prison at least! Possibly back in the game!

The epilogue was intriguing at least. Was wondering why I hadn't seen Varys throughout the whole book. Should make the next book fun..... in 6 years.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on July 19, 2011, 06:54:55 AM
Finished Colour of Magic, Light Fantastic, Sourcery, and Eric. (I think this is the entire Rincewind series from Discworld?)

Overall enjoyable, though VERY unfocused and unpolished. It's clear that it's some of Pratchett's earliest work. Not that low-level Pratchett is -bad-, it certainly tends to be better than a lot of fantasy fluff, but it's clearly inferior to his later books. I appreciated seeing how a lot of Discworld staples got started, and it was nice reading a Discworld that was more Fantasy than Social Commentary. But notably the Social Commentary tends to make his works a lot more cohesive, so I'm glad he eventually found his niche with the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on July 19, 2011, 07:29:31 AM
There's later Rincewind books.  Interesting Times, the Lost Continent, and I think a couple others are largely about him.  After that, there's books that are less Rincewind specifically and more the Wizards in general.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on July 19, 2011, 10:54:54 AM
Interesting Times is pretty easily the best of the Rincewind books, I thought. And yeah, totally accurate assessment of early Pratchett.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 19, 2011, 12:26:37 PM
You will note that it is about the time where he gets a better handle on things (Eric/post Eric) that the series other recurring characters come into play.  Vimes/Vetinari, the Witches (other than Granny Weatherwax who is massively changed from her appearance in Equal Rites) and most relevant to the discussion, Mustrum Ridcully.  The dynamic of the books changes dramatically when we have a more stable base to work with other than Rincewind, Twoflower, Cohen and Death.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on July 19, 2011, 01:43:44 PM
Well, I will note that Sourcery was a pretty good story and did a lot to solidify his views on how Magic should work, I think. It's just that Eric as a follow up is pretty much complete, unfocused fluff. Also, I'm not sure how Cohen qualifies as a major character outside of Light Fantastic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 19, 2011, 10:43:43 PM
He has his own book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 20, 2011, 05:22:35 AM
Pushed Sherlock Holmes to the side for the time being, since Song of Ice and Fire came in the mail and I'm needing to finish the series re-read up before I visit with my mother at the end of August. She'll want to talk about it, and I'm only too happy to oblige.

Sherlock Holmes has been great fun, though. I first read it in the third grade, and studied some of the mysteries. I had no appreciation whatsoever for it. Now, with House taking it on, and the BBC pulling a modern television adaptation, and Hollywood putting out Robert Downey, Jr. and Jude Law as a sort of explosive crime fighting duo, I've seen many facets of the 20th/21st century re-imaginings. I see what producers have adapted, and I see what was originally written, and I marvel.

I am utterly shocked that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle has kept my attention so thoroughly. Normally, I despise Victorian-era literature as overwrought, sentimental pieces of shit. I really, really hate early novels. Maybe I need only pay attention to sensational serials, at least if Sherlock Holmes is indicative of the quality.

Sherlock Holmes is a fabulous bastard, and Dr. Watson is such an appreciative audience. And what a fabulous way to explore the unreliable narrator! I look forward to returning to this read.

--

So I'm 90% of the way through Game of Thrones, and I remember why I've bothered to keep up with this series. There are elements of every epic fantasy series ever penned here, and there are very strong influences from Wheel of Time (which must be why the jacket includes a blurb of praise from Robert Jordan, hah), but it's its own story of political intrigues. The stuff of kings and kingdoms, it is, and oh by the way there's probably something not quite normal about some of these people and environments.

From what I recall, the series really picks up around book 3, but the lead-in is a necessary dive into the politics and history of the Seven Kingdoms. I don't begrudge the world-building because the characters through which these actions occur are just so damn worth experiencing.

I haven't read a drop of SoIF since A Feast for Crows first came out -- hence the re-read -- so I pretty much get to enjoy the series from book 1 all the way through book 5. We'll see how it holds up without years of speculation and whinging to space them apart and fill in the holes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 22, 2011, 09:54:33 PM
Woo geekery.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5250/img1180hx.jpg)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on July 23, 2011, 01:17:32 AM
Sam Adams Winter Lager is Coming.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 23, 2011, 01:38:31 AM
Sadly they were out of Stark mugs. All they had left was one Lannister and some Targaryen and Baratheon mugs.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on July 29, 2011, 01:47:04 PM
At the con, Ashley recommended that I read a book called The Windup Girl, and having nothing else to read on the plane trip home, I bought it.

Then I fell asleep on the plane and didn't really start reading it until a day or so later.

I'm kind of weird with books. It can take me anywhere from four hours to four months to finish one up. It all depends on how long it takes me to reach the book's climax, or if we're going to sexualize books, I suppose it'd be more accurate to call it the "Plateau" phase. Basically, with books, I read them idly until I accidentally stumble on the point of no return, and then no power on earth can stop me from finishing my book. At about 6 AM this happened with The Windup Girl, and I finished reading a few minutes ago.

First off, holy hell, this book is dark. Really dark. Like, if a novel represents an author's worldview in some way or another, I'm not sure I'd get along with the guy. It's so matter of fact about the absolute worst stuff imaginable. Regardless, it's exceptionally well-crafted, and, oddly, third person present tense, which comes off as really novel. Definitely fits in with the Buddhist themes of the book. For what amounts to someone's first full-sized novel, this is absolutely amazing. I really hope this Bacigalupi fellow continues writing for a few decades, because this seems like exactly the sort of fresh face Science Fiction needs.


Next up: FLUFF
Between the next Haruhi and next Dark Elf book, I'm sure I'll get enough pulp to keep me satisfied before I tear my guts out with another book like this. It's good to read again, but lord knows the next time I'll actually do it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 29, 2011, 06:00:43 PM
See if you can catch one of his short stories. They're also quite dark, but hauntingly beautiful. The Fluted Girl -- http://windupstories.com/pumpsix/the-fluted-girl/ -- was the first one I read.

--

Re-read of Song of Ice and Fire continues. I am about 50% of the way through Storm of Swords, and I was right, the story picks up speed here. Considering how many of the chapters overlap in time, that's downright bizarre

My favorites (me and every other reader out there, hah) are Arya, Jon, Tyrion, and Bran after he joins with the crannogmen. I enjoy Daenerys's POV chapters about half the time. I dread reading Davos's, though I enjoy his character well enough. I just feel like he's the eyes in the throne room, forced where he needs to be.

Getting a little fatigued slogging through these. That's a side-effect of the immense amounts of back story, battle description and other various info dumps that happen. Not sure if I can finish the series before Tuesday. Seems unlikely. Ah well.

If I decide to take a break from it, I'll be reading Ghost Story (Dresden Files). Changes left off on an ENORMOUS cliff-hanger and I've been dying to know what happened after that. Jim Butcher may be a hack writer, but he still hits all the right notes to keep my interest.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 31, 2011, 08:38:13 PM
Ghost Story: It's a new Dresden book. Fun pulp fantasy, and it and Changes have really moved the overall story along. Looking forward to seeing what Butcher does with this, assuming he plans to keep up the pace.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on August 01, 2011, 04:35:58 AM
Been reading the Dexter novels. Some of the changes in the series I'm glad were made, some I miss, and some (like Brian killing LaGuerta) I really really wish had stayed in.

I think the biggest change overall is the loss of Michael C. Hall. Without his charisma, we just have Dexter's narration, and it makes two pretty noteworthy changes in tone. First, Dexter is much, much more unsettling, and second, his affection for Rita is far more hollow. I realized after a while that the affection he has for her reminds me of how I feel about my furniture. I like that it's there because I picked it out and it goes with the rest of my stuff.

Also holy shit, are they ever more graphic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on August 01, 2011, 06:42:19 PM
I haven't read anything but French polars and Bret Easton Ellis novels in the past 5 years, but recently I tried some good old fantasy books.
Specifically, Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy.
I do not know how to talk about books. It's pretty neat! I like how there's not much magic or classic fantasy races.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 01, 2011, 06:44:44 PM
Farseer is neat because (In spite of?) Fitz literally having the worst decision making skills of all time.  Just a very cool world and it's got a strong cast.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 15, 2011, 06:12:21 PM
Finished Song of Ice and Fire.

So... yeah. I feel like George R. R. Martin needs a firmer editor. Dance with Dragons read a lot like a book by a famous, best-selling author -- by which I mean that because he's writing a series people are guaranteed to buy, he gets a LOT more leeway with extraneous exposition than anyone else. That, and it's a sweeping fantasy with ridiculous layers of foreshadowing and outlining. Some of it is likely necessary in the scheme of things. Right now, however, there were long stretches of text that made my brain shut down for their ponderousness.

I'd rank this one #2 on my list. That's largely because it introduced a second side to the troubles of Westeros (holy carp, Batman, MORE STORY) and I like this one better. Cersei and the Iron Throne have been getting a little (haha) melodramatic, too soap opera for my tastes. I like this new angle, even if my semi-spoilery thought throughout this one was, "Does ANYONE in this world actually STAY dead?"

1. Storm of Swords (#3)
2. Dance with Dragons (#5)
3. Clash of Kings (#2)
4. Game of Thrones (#1)
5. Feast for Crows (#4)

Favorite characters have stayed stable. That said: WTF, Martin. I HATE YOU SO MUCH FOR ENDING THIS BOOK THAT WAY. Argh.

--

Read Ghost Story on Saturday. As implied, it was a pretty easy read by which I mean that Butcher continues to write a straight-forward pulp detective series with fantasy elements. I loved this book, probably because it spent a curiously bulky portion of the text expounding on psychological stuff. Major ret-con whoa, but plausible enough. I too am looking forward to seeing how Butcher brings this in the next book.

Major bonus: Butcher seems to be getting the hang of it now! Only 13 books in. At least he's planning to write for another 20 or so, based on interviews. Cold Days sounds like a much less clever title than any of the rest, but I'll take it. Whenever it comes out.

--

I'm out of hotly anticipated reads until Alloy of Law comes out in November, so... back to reading the rest! I've got Sherlock Holmes on the shelf, but I need something a little less intensive for a short while. Catching up on some SF&F short stories for now.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on August 15, 2011, 06:22:28 PM
Reading about Butcher's plans for The Dresden Files is like when anybody interviews Brian Clevinger about his plans for Atomic Robo (which is currently in its sixth miniseries) and he casually mentions that he has plot sketches and titles for the franchise up to volume fourteen.

Incidentally, read Atomic Robo.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 16, 2011, 09:41:05 AM
That said: WTF, Martin. I HATE YOU SO MUCH FOR ENDING THIS BOOK THAT WAY. Argh.

I'm hoping this means something happens at the end! I have 150 pages left and I honestly surprised that this book was 5 years (or whatever) in the making. I think the overall feeling of futility is making this one the clear worst to me so far.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on August 16, 2011, 11:10:54 PM
This is a pretty tacky thing to do, but I am reading my last edition of Juxtapoz, since my subscription ends. It's a magazine, and I've been examining several magazines I hope I can follow for some time. This is not one I would follow though. I'm definitely excited about switching over to Artforum's hardcopy editions this year.

In order to stay slightly on topic, I read a ruined Berenstein Bears book I found while cleaning out a 10-decade cluttered garage. I also read a Barbie book - the one that makes noises appropriate to the pictures for an all-out experience. Total nostalgia.

I'm still on Les Mis, but I believe I'm on page 622. I don't feel like checking. I'm not reading it tonight. I'm reading Juxtapoz.


(Edit* "10-decade." Lol. Whatevs!)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 17, 2011, 10:43:43 PM
Incorruptible - This is a comic.  It is pretty fun.  It is the villain counterpart to Irredeemable.  They are both written by Mark Waid.  They are essentially the setting where ersatz Superman went batshit insane and just started roasting people with his heat vision.  That is what Irredeemable is about.  Incorruptible is where his archrival saw it all go down and decides that he needs to become a Super Hero to stop him.  He isn't super good at it, but it is pretty fun.  Also his name is Max Damage.  This is rad.  He has a pretty fun super power as well.  He wakes up normal, the longer he stays awake the stronger and more nigh invulnerable he becomes.  All of this at the cost of his sense of touch.  It is pretty neat, he only has an hour in the morning to wake up, eat and shave etc before he loses all sense of touch.  That is pretty much why he was a Super Villain, because he could, he could get away with it and why the fuck not?  May as well enjoy what he can.  Downside to his power is that while he physically doesn't need to sleep, he still suffers from sleep deprevation.  So he stays up for three days to fight the Plutonian (Superman) and he isn't exactly thinking particularly well.

So as far as he goes as a Super Hero... well he isn't quite the Punisher, but he isn't super great at it.  That is fine.

Oh and he rocks a leather jacket, jeans and a pair of Fingerless gloves with metal plates along the top knuckle with the letters M.D. on them which is also rad.

As far as the story itself goes?  It is pretty great.  Well thought out and internally consistent while best of all feeling like there is a weight of history there without getting bogged down in it.  It is just smart well written story telling.  That is pretty much what I would have expected from Mark Waid given his writing history.

Sadly I think this means I am going to have to shell out and get Irredeemable as well.  I was honestly mostly just interested in the concept of Incorruptible to see how well it works.  Turns out it does it really well.

Edit - Okay so straight up David Tennant with a mohawk dude was great.

I love that the book pretty much straight up said that the only character in the setting who can expect good to be completely uncompromising and always successful is the sociopath former villain who's only concept of being a Super Hero is to do the opposite of what he used to do.  Which of course mirrors perfectly with what makes Irredeemable a thing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 18, 2011, 01:19:11 PM
I've read a chunk of Irredeemable, and it's damn good.  Mark Waid knows his business.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 22, 2011, 04:55:03 AM
been reading through Susan Sontag - On Photography, which is a collection of essays.  Figure I'll post about 'em now because the semester's starting and I don't know when I'll finish 'em.

Sontag is an incredible writer, both in terms of substance and style, and her essays are a kaleidescope of ways to conceive of the act of photography in modern society.  It's illuminating to compare what Sontag said about the photograph and its role in society in the '70s to what we use the internet for today.  Sontag said photographs were the inspiration for people wanting to know everything - that people would voraciously consume photos of far off monuments to know what they look like, for example.  We use the internet so we don't have to know everything - Wikipedia is an external memory device that relieves us of the burden of having to hold things in our head.  Sontag says the camera changes the meaning of vacations, so that memorializing a trip in film become the primary purpose of the trip.  The internet is augmenting this function, it seems, with Twitter, and a variety of GPS-bsaed apps that tell fgolks where you are and what you're doing.  The extreme (and inordinate in my opinion) attention paid to "social media" in the past couple years seems to be supplanting the meaning of events - people eat at new restaurants so they can post their reviews, etc.  Funny stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on August 23, 2011, 07:44:31 PM
Changes: Finally got around to this. Pretty much every single event that occurs in this book is a spoiler.

Everything.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on August 23, 2011, 08:04:47 PM
Harry....well.

Uh, Co...no...

THOMAS...wait, that was in the next book.

Harry does magic. There. That's your plot point.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on August 24, 2011, 03:57:56 AM
Kevin Costner in Dances with Dragons:  Finished.  Continues the tradition of the odd-numbered books in the series being good.  Hmm, actually...

1 (Fabulous) > 3 (Great) > 5 (Good) >>> 2 (Poor) > 4 (Bad)

Which means book 6 should be the coming of the apocalypse.

The split narrative started in book 4 was a colossally bad idea, and the beginning of this book shows exactly why.  When Jon and Sam are having a conversation, you are reading the exact same damn thing you read in the last book.  Luckily, Martin realizes he made a mistake, and corrects it quickly.  You're into "new" material by the halfway point.  And it works for the most part.

I don't like the "dwarfmance"; it's too forced.  And it's evident there's too many plotthreads started at this point.  I mean, we haven't seen Rickon since book 3?

And alas, poor Kevan.  It's always the competent ones that get shafted.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on August 24, 2011, 03:13:58 PM
Oh right. I also forgot I read Aftermath out of Side Jobs (the short that directly follows Changes). Also can't talk much about it.

I guess I should comment. Butcher continues to improve generally every book. Changes was a really great use of the Dresden Files' rogue gallery, although I would have liked to see more of a few folks. It may just be that I haven't reread the series recently enough, but the writing did generally seem... quippier? I kind of wavered back and forth on my opinion regarding it but ultimately decided, given the cast and characters and situation, that it made enough sense.

Served well as a season finale for the series up to this point.

Aftermath was pretty much filler, but amusing enough. Fun to see him use another character for a prespective character in a short piece. That's what connected shorts are for!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on August 27, 2011, 12:54:47 AM
Gauntlgrym.

The latest Dark Elf Book (in paperback, anyhow), and one of the better ones in the series, in my opinion. Gauntlgrym is the first book in what is the new era of Drizzt's life. It is a very nice, very dwarfy (EXCELLENTLY Dwarfy) book that stands quite well as a Drizzt book. It's kind of a shame that they're using it to hawk their new videogame, because the book itself doesn't need to be attached to something else. It is a good book.

Bruenor Battlehammer is fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on September 02, 2011, 02:30:00 PM
So I was foolish enough to spend money on a "Best of The Spirit" collection at a used bookstore.

Not that the book wasn't worth the money, mind you. But because I'd managed to avoid reading The Spirit before and now I'm going to have to spend all of my money buying the complete reprints.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 07, 2011, 03:32:42 PM
Full Dark, No Stars- Finished this last night.  This is Stephen King's best work since... hell, Hearts in Atlantis before his accident? (That I've read, I've heard good things about Duma Key).  I think the second story about the author was my favorite. Though man. Fair Extension's main character managed to offend/piss me fof more than the villains in the other stories, which says something.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 07, 2011, 05:41:37 PM
Not quite back to Sherlock Holmes yet. Picked up a short story collection to read on the plane, edited, in part, by Neil Gaiman. They were taking a literary view on typical science fiction & fantasy stories, a selection that was far more interested in the fantastical answer to the question "And then what happens?"

They were good, on the whole. Some were a little too arty for my tastes, but definitely not all. They had the pull of a good story, the gripping page turners that make you want to read until the end without stopping because you just can't bear to have to wait to see how it ends.

Picked up Best Science Fiction & Fantasy of 2011 yesterday, so that's my next jump. Short stories are the perfect pace setter for longer dives into novels. I might get back to Sherlock Holmes, finally, after I finish with this one. Maybe not, though, as November looms nearer.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on September 15, 2011, 02:59:45 PM
Actually started reading Red Mars during my vacation.

Not actually liking it much so far.  I don't especially like any of the characters so far (excluding Hiroko, I guess, but she has little screen time).  I don't have a lot to say about them--most of them aren't awful, but there's just very little there that makes me interested in them.

Some of the math is horrendous; like...there was an equation where they were measuring the sustainability of a farm, and they had

s = K - m/M

Where K was some made-up constant that could have been dropped from the equation completely, and you'd think m/M was amount produced over amount used, but it sounded like m was already a ratio.  And they were saying the upper limit on the equation was 1, but realistically it's totally possible to produce more food than you eat.

I mean, some of the stuff is technically true; if the gravity of a moon is too low, technically you could construct train tracks around the entire moon, and run the train at fast speeds, and then walk around on the roof of the train.  That sounds prohibitively expensive, though.  Especially since you'd have to manufacture the train tracks in such a way that the entire train doesn't go flying off the moon.  Although, I guess Phobos is small enough that you wouldn't have to go -that- fast (like...140 m/s, so 509 km/h...okay, that's pretty fast, but doable).  But even though the author is technically right here, why wouldn't you just make yourself a centrifuge so that you don't have to go around the entire moon and fight against the existing gravity?

I really wish the author would stop trying to talk about math and science, and spend more time developing the actual characters.  But...eh, I'm only like 100-200 pages in or so; maybe it gets better.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 15, 2011, 10:30:27 PM
:(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on September 16, 2011, 07:00:40 AM
The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood, by Howard Pyle

To pay off my Kindle, I'm reading several free books first, and this was an old favorite from Jr. High.

Some things worth noting:

EVERYONE in these books is a dick. Everyone. Suffer a minor insult? It's time to fight each other with clubs. Suffer a moderate insult? Maybe you'll use swords. Holy shit, people in the Robin Hood legends will fight each other over almost nothing. It's ridiculous.

Will Scarlet, in modern versions of the story, seems to be more of Robin Hood's good lieutenant, Will Stutely. Stutely is the sneaky, fast-mouthed clever guy that Robin trusts to lead the band when he and Little John are away. He's basically the third man in charge. Media does sort of get it right in making Scarlet handsome, because he's kind of a fop, but they forget the part where foppish Will Scarlet is FREAKISHLY STRONG. As in "I joined Robin Hood's band because I accidentally killed a guy by punching him in the head" strong. Will Scarlet is hardcore.

Maid Marian: May as well not exist. She's not a noble. (For that matter, Robin Hood isn't a fucking Noble, either. Just a Yeoman.) She's some chick that Robin Hood messed around in his youth. That's.... about it, honestly.

Guy of Gisborne: I've seen a couple of things that make this guy look noble, or in love with Marian, or god knows what else. This guy is none of those things. He's not even particularly cleanly. He is a guy that walks around wearing a dead fucking horse. He is a stone-cold killer that is hired to fight Robin Hood, and Robin breaks his stance on killing people because, well, Guy of Gisborne really badly needed killing.

King Richard/King John:
Robin did fight in the crusades with Richard----long after his other adventures. His association with John was really not too much, there's no "I'll restore the rightful king to the throne" bullshit with Robin Hood. Robin does most of his shit while their father, Henry, is on the throne. Henry dies after trying to have Robin Hood killed, Richard comes in, thinks about taking care of Robin himself, meets Robin, thinks "This is a swell guy", pardons him, and invites him to be one of his soldiers. They go to the crusades, Richard eventually dies. John takes the throne, Robin goes back to Sherwood, and then John sends an army after him. The Merry Men kill the shit out of the army and the Sheriff's men, (and the Sheriff---no epic duel there. Arrow into the brain to start the fight.) because Robin is a changed man after the crusades.

Then he gets sick, and goes to get his blood let by his cousin. She doesn't want to be associated with the outlaw, so she bleeds his arteries instead of his veins. He bleeds out and dies. The End.


All in all, I love these stories. Somehow don't think you'll ever see a modern take on Robin Hood that's actually accurate to the legends, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 16, 2011, 09:32:15 PM
Finally got around to reading Hunger Games. Just the first book. But I liked it enough I'm getting books 2 and 3 next week.

It's very definitely a YA book. I'm trying to recall book 1 of Harry Potter now, since that series started the whole "adults can read YA too!" thing, but I do think this one was even more firmly YA than that. It's a very, very simple story. It's told from the point-of-view of a young adult. There is romantic tension of a rather clever sort, but it is not prurient or overwhelming - quite appropriate for a YA reader, if maybe even too puritanical. The plot is very straight-forward.

None of this takes away from the enjoyment I got from reading it. It's not going to go down into the annals of literature, I'm sure, but it was plenty enjoyable and I can definitely see why Hollywood's picked it up for a film adaptation. I don't want to call the plot "inventive" because I know the concept has been done before, but it was clever and refreshed enough to be interesting in its own right. The main character is one of my favorites: not always socially perceptive, but a survivor. The environment of the story is a perfect fit for a character of her type, and she really got to show it off.

I'm looking forward to see whether there's any advancement for the character in books 2 and 3, and I'm afraid they'll go the way of Jane Yolen's Pit Dragon Trilogy -- that is, insufferably embroiled in politics. In my opinion, that would absolutely destroy everything that made book 1 work so well. While it's obvious they can't just rehash book 1, I feel like there's plenty of life left in the world, and in the characters, to put them convincingly into a more complex problem. Making politics a primary concern would be extremely out of line with the main character's personality, too.

So we'll see. Can't wait!

--

Otherwise, I've been reading short stories. 2011's Best SF & F and Neil Gaiman and Al Sarrantino's Stories. It's all made me want to write again, and especially happy that November is coming up soon. I have ideas aplenty this year, so I'm hoping my 50k will actually be a meaningful step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 21, 2011, 09:14:44 PM
So, I lied, they absolutely can rehash what made book 1 work! They just happened to do so in a way that felt absolutely natural for the world in which the books take place.

It remains a very YA series. There is no major maturation of material; this isn't suddenly a book about teenagers discovering sex or anything like that. The master stroke of genius from the author is that I can't tell if she lucked out and happened to write a character who would naturally obsess in the details the author likes to write, or if the author is that subtle. For example, Katniss (the main character) is a slums girl who grew up knowing starvation. When she visits the Capitol, the amount of time spent describing food and eating and excess is the amount of time you'd expect a character with that background to spend noticing food. Same with all the material excess.

THAR BE SPOILERS AHEAD, LIKELY!

It does descend into politics, necessarily, but it doesn't turn into Rebel Meetings HQ the way the Pit Dragon series does. THANK GOD. Katniss remains Katniss, and I think the great strength of the series is that she is a genuinely interesting, likable-but-flawed teen who just happens to be pulled into the midst of greater happenings. It's all but blatantly stated in the books themselves, too. They don't suddenly turn a 16-year-old girl into the military leader of their uprising -- because that makes no sense -- but they do exploit what she's become to their movement. There are definite Idiot Ball (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall) moments where some other character has to have a complete lapse in brainpower for the ultimate lightbulb to shine over Katniss's head, but that's a hard enough thing to avoid (and it wasn't that overwhelming or out-of-character) that I forgive it in this series.

END OF SPOILERS, PROBABLY

In the end, I would recommend anyone who's a fan of YA pick these books up. It also may be of interest to those who like strong female protagonists, hints of romance that avoid bogging the story down in sexual tension, dystopian futures, and watching/reading about children fighting to the death (ie, if you like Lord of the Flies but thought there was too much serious stuff in the middle of all that delightful child on child violence).

Interested to see how they turn this into a movie. It's got plenty of potential. It's also probably one of the few books I've read where I feel they could do it better in a movie.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on September 26, 2011, 06:16:56 AM
The books for one of my classes:
Modern Art in the USA
Pollock and After
Abstract Expressionism
Art in Modern Culture
Making the Modern
Art Workers: Radical Practice in the Vietnam War Era
Twentieth Century American Art
----
I have to read *all* of these this semester. Ho shit.

Two books I picked up in light of influencing possibly my Master's paper (hopefully related to a potential thesis):
Black Art: A Cultural History
How to See a Work of Art in Total Darkness
-----
A catalog I found very vital to my African seminar course: Gold in Africa, by Timothy Garrard. Other books related to this tbd, as it is it quite difficult to find solid contemporary published sources on Mali goldsmithing, fulani, etc. But. Yeah.

Very excited about How to See a Work of Art in Total Darkness. Loving Francis Frascina's Art in Modern Culture. I feel an oncoming sensory overload.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on September 26, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
The Belgariad:  Read all five books in collection format.  I'd classify it as children's literature.  It's a nice coming-of-age story, but not particularly deep.  The characters are all amusing and it was a pleasant read throughout.

The problem with stories centered around prophecies is that, well, you know how they're going to turn out.  There's a distinct lack of suspense throughout.  The author even jokes in the foreword about how it isn't a spoiler to tell you the good guys win.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on September 26, 2011, 10:42:47 PM
For my book club:

Reality is Broken - Jane McGonnigal
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on September 28, 2011, 12:51:29 AM
I just started Darby English's How to See a Work of Art in Complete Darkness.

My face hurts.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 28, 2011, 05:48:57 PM
I just started Darby English's How to See a Work of Art in Complete Darkness.

My face hurts.

I think maybe we should review how one reads a book. "Apply your eyes" is not literal.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 28, 2011, 11:00:57 PM
If your face hurts that means it wasn't a stroke at least.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 05, 2011, 07:32:55 PM
Been between books. Reading bits and pieces of things, but nothing's really grabbed me yet. Occasionally picking up Terry Pratchett's Feet of Clay, but it's not doing much for me.

Reading Paradise Lost. More specifically, right now, I'm reading the academic introduction. OH MY GOD. Academic writing is terrible. Feeling good about not bothering with graduate school for the moment. I'm much happier reading the literature than the papers about the literature, that's for certain. Also have The Inferno on hand, with facing page originals. I took Italian early in my college career specifically because I wanted to read Dante in the original, so this is nice!

I'll get back to Sherlock Holmes, I swear.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on October 05, 2011, 08:24:02 PM
So. Been reading in the past three months or so. Lots. Might as well reflect on some...

Mostly I've been reading the Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold. Through:

Shards of Honor
Barrayar
The Warrior's Apprentice
"The Mountains of Mourning"
The Vor Game
Cetaganda
Ethan of Athos
"Labyrinth"
"The Borders of Infinity"
Brothers in Arms
Mirror Dance

About to start Falling Free, which is a far-flung prequel to the series explaining some backstory. The series is, in a word, excellent. Very good sci-fi. Very FUN sci-fi. While nothing groundbreaking, it is the sort of quality that sets a benchmark to the entire industry. The character work is superb. My favorite of the bunch to this point is still Cetaganda, followed by Barrayar (because Cordelia is bestest Mom ever and a prudent shopaholic). If you like good sci-fi, I HIGHLY recommend picking up the first omnibus (Cordelia's Honor) and going from there. I have most of the rest, but not everything is contained in the omnibus editions so I'm waiting on the holes I need to patch ;-; It is a painful, painful wait.

Early on in my devouring of books (mostly inspired by Borders closing...) I picked up Simon Morden's Metrozone trilogy. Sci-fi, post-apoc pulp, but yummy pulp none-the-less. Just very fun. The main character is almos too perfect though. If he didn't suffer heart attacks every five feet and lose body-parts more often than a leper, he'd be nigh-unstoppable. But I guess thats what makes it fun. Fairly solid resolution, if actually sort of sad. I will admit though that what first drew me to it were the fairly groovy optical illusions it uses for covers.

Same deal is Jack Campbell's 6 book Lost Fleet series. More pulp, of a different sort. The space combat here is very thoughtfully executed here. I honestly consider it the most "realistic" I've ever seen it implemented, akin to what Battletech does for mecha. The most important thing is accounted for: Relativity, which makes for a very different take on tactics and strategy for space combat and puts it in stark contrast to Star Wars and even the more reasonable ones I've read/seen like Elizabeth Moon. The story/characters were okay at first until I realized that aspect of the books were incredibly formulaic. The one nicely implemented bit is eventually subsumed for something more predictable, but still a decent read.

More recently, I started up Dresden Files. Through the first two (Storm Front and Fool Moon). Good stuff, can see why people like it. Chomping at the bit to read more but it's not Vorkosigan level where I can justify getting more while still having such a huge pile of books to read. Andy is totally right. Dresden is such a Sopko character...

Rounding out what I've been reading is Ann Aguirre's Grimspace series. Through the first two of four I have. Fairly well executed first-person sci-fi. The main character is borderline neurotic, but ever so much fun. The main problem with the series is the breakneck pacing, which I honestly think holds it back. The first-person perspective helps internalize events well enough and keeps it from totally failing, but if a third-person book tried it it'd be incoherant. Maybe I just like slow, plodding stuff... still glad I picked up as much as I could. Also picked up a Dresden-type setting series by the same author, so looking forward to that as well.

Also got the first volume of Incorruptable. It is as Grefter said, good stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on October 14, 2011, 12:44:42 PM
The Belgariad is excellent, but the mythos behind it is a bit to clunky for me to call it Children's lit. I'd say it more than holds its own as adult Fantasy, given that most of the genre is really abominably bad and it's rather charming.

Lessee...

The Rampage of Haruhi Suzumiya:
Finally a book in the series that covers events that I have not yet seen in the anime, albeit only for the last "third" of the book. Rampage is excellent, but it and Disappearance are where, I feel, you can definitely see how much more the author seems to love Nagato more than the titular character or perhaps even Kyon. Which is good on one hand, because Nagato is an excellent character, and bad on another hand, because she doesn't have the RIGHT STUFF to be a main character. It's also bad because we need more Koizumi. Koizumi is wonderful, and him and Asahina have kind of been tossed to the side over the last four stories/two books.

The Three Musketeers
Sort of scatterbrained, actually. A book that jumps all over the place between chaotic humor and one or two truly horrific scenes. It's a very human story at its core, which is why I feel like it has endured to be a classic. And hey, it's based on a story that's based on a true story! So maybe in all of thi---oh, who are we kidding.
It's an excellent read, by the way. It's long and in some parts dry, but not so much that you aren't compelled to finish. It's nice because the main villain is truly odious and unlikable, but at the same time, doesn't harbor a specific or ground-breaking goal. She's just a very nasty person that continually crosses people and eventually goes too far. Some very solid villain work.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on October 18, 2011, 02:06:48 AM
I finished Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series a while back and was recently reminded in chat that I never got to rambling about it here as I meant to. So let's get on with that.

Erikson is the most frustrating author I've read in years. He's capable of being a great writer, but often forgets this. He is addicted to glaring bad habits like few prominent writers I've encountered. However, there is some great material in this series and it is at the least worth checking out the first book or two to see if anything clicks. I was personally underwhelmed with the technical merits of his writing in the first couple books (see below) and as a result found the middle entries of the series more satisfying, but the introductory volumes are enough to get a sense of what he's about. Book two has some fairly brutal audience gutpunches, so if even the Chain of Dogs isn't getting to you, you probably don't need to continue.

Let's start with the cons, since I'm a negative kinda guy and that's easier for me. There'll be some spoilers herein, but if I don't bother to put something in small font, it's either information the books are very up-front about, or it concerns people and events that no sane person could like anyway.

-First couple books really do feel like journeyman work. Much of the approach to internal action in the first volume is to flat-out describe how someone feels. I find this approach dry and lazy. He gets much better about this in time, instead focusing on mental monologues to capture internal movement. As someone who spends a great deal of time engaged in rambling internal monologues, I find this a fine approach to characterization. But internal development was fairly lacking at first due to the way it was presented, and this made it tough for me to latch onto many of the initial characters.

-Rampant abuse of pointless apostrophes in names. This is kind of a personal pet peeve when it comes to fantasy writing. Names sometimes feel as much an awkward keyboard mash as you might find in the Star Wars EU. And there are a lot of names, as Erikson seems bent on outdoing Jordan/Martin for Loads and Loads of Characters madness.

-Bloat. This is really the main strike against him. It's a liability with any longrunning fantasy series, but I feel like a great deal of it could've been avoided here since, for once, this fantasy writer knew exactly where everything was going from the start (although that may have been the problem--we'll come back to this). The later in the series we get, the more editorial freedom he must have had, because the last books are chock full of unnecessary asides that ramble on and on without adding constructively to the plot or even focusing on characters worth caring about. Book eight is the embodiment of this problem and I feel certain he must have fired his editor before working on it.

-As an extension of the above, structure and focus. The Malazan books don't have a consistent, central POV. This is fine, really. Plenty of books jump around between perspectives, we're all used to it, and there's a certain amount of merit in doing so, especially in a setting this expansive. The problem is that Erikson rarely notices any barrier between what we need to see and what is superfluous. He has a bad habit of throwing in random asides from one-off characters we'll never see again, goons who we immediately realize are only there to get killed by the important character who's about to make an appearance, diving into sub-plots that don't add appreciatively to the overall narrative and only serve to hammer home themes long since made manifest many times over...

Why is this such a problem? Because the first two-hundred and fifty pages of book four are seen purely through the eyes of a single character, and it's a blazing spectacle of psychological damage that the series never quite reproduces. We see that this is what he can do when he sits down and focuses on a single thread, so we wonder, why doesn't he do it more often? Books eight and nine are particularly bad about their needless diversions. Book nine has about three hundred pages dedicated to a meandering army of uniformly unlikable barbarians who ultimately just get killed off--without impacting the plot in any way--by a character we've been waiting to see the entire book. Book eight is a needless diversion in its totality.

-Although I'm certain Erikson knew where the story as a whole was going from the get-go, there are plenty of events that seem to come out of nowhere in ways that are more headscratchingly random than they are shocking surprises. Reality is Unrealistic may aptly be cited here, yes, but we expect a certain amount of reliable, narrative flow in novels. Instead, sometimes things just crash the party and happen whether it is useful to the story or not. This is very much an Anyone Can Die series, which isn't always to the benefit of the overall narrative.

All of the above made it sometimes difficult for me to keep a handle on the material when it would surprise me by suddenly doing something praiseworthy. He does improve technically as a writer as time goes on--dialogue gets sharper, description more colorful and efficient. But there is an undisciplined feel to the work as a whole that never quite goes away.

...

The primary upside to all this is: A) worldbuilding; B) 'tis no man, 'tis a remorseless writing machine, pumping out a mammoth fantasy novel on almost a yearly basis (alongside spin-offs!) and actually finishing his epic in the predicted number of volumes, for which I give him a great deal of credit; C) there's a lot of great character work on display when he chooses to focus on the more intriguing characters around. This doesn't always turn out to be where you expect it be, either. Erikson isn't really a man concerned with shocking twists, although I suppose there are a few present in these books, but he can prove very good at subverting expectations. This world is full of contradictions, sometimes even with the author's obvious personal views (although he's not immune to the dreaded Author Tract), and a stronger construction for it.

This is the only series I can think of where The Empire is, if not quite heroic, then easily still the most admirable society in the world. By the time we encounter it it's rusting under the stewardship of an upstart empress with a Stalinesque paranoia and love of purges, and starting to crumble from political intrigue, but it's plain that it has (even if sometimes through violent methods) brought a level of peace, security, and prosperity to its subject holdings that few of them experienced while they remained bickering, provincial principalities. This isn't a point that's hammered home with force; we see outside cities and compare for ourselves. None of this is the standard tack for epic fantasy to take. The Malazan army is a curiously democratic organization wherein incompetent officers, or those appointed solely by virtue of noble birth (largely overlapping categories there) are generally ignored, circumvented, or occasionally disappeared; it was founded with the express purpose of being a meritocratic enterprise where race/gender/religion matter not and personal skill dictates one's success.

A large portion of our central characters hail from marine detachments of this organization. (Indeed, if there is one message to draw from these books, it is to never mess with a marine. Even if you're a god. Especially if you're a god.) They spend a great deal of time in the first half of the series at war, subduing recalcitrant city-states. Throughout this, one somehow never gets the impression that Erikson is making an effort to either glorify or demonize imperialism (although the latter does happen, in other circumstances...we'll come back to this); for most of the soldiers involved, it's their means of earning a living, and he's very straightforward about presenting it in that manner. In time, Erikson becomes exceptionally good at developing a sense of camaraderie between them, such that by the final volume I was more entertained by their collective bitching than by the central plot.

He has a nasty habit of taking something that on the surface we should wholly object to and somehow making it an object of sympathy. The first thing we learn about Karsa Orlong is that he hails from a backwater where intertribal murder, rape, and genocide are everyday events; the first thing we learn about Adjunct Tavore is that she sold her sister into slavery for political gain; the first thing we learn about Cotillion is that he's the patron god of assassins. Ultimately these prove to be some of the most humane and empathetic characters in the world (in varying proportions of such, and sometimes in perverse ways, but I don't think their intentions can be denied by the end). It takes a special kind of writer to do something like this. He is capable of producing brilliant character work when he sets his mind to it.

The presence of a deity in the cast may be noted in the above paragraph. Gods plainly exist in the world of Malaz, and regularly make direct interference in mortal affairs. They don't always call themselves gods, but there's a multitude of beings as good as such floating at the edges of the world and the sliding scale of individual power ramps up to some pretty extreme heights. Yet we spend at least as much time focusing on the daily travails of army grunts. So is it high fantasy or low fantasy? Erikson aims for both. Personally I feel he succeeds more at the latter. His worldview is much more suited to it. These books are frequently stories of graphic brutality, but I can't say Erikson ever seems to rejoice in the violence. Certainly plenty of characters internally lament how commonplace it is and how casually people accept it. I like that there are quieter ways of reinforcing this, however: there are a great many individuals of immense power loose in the world, but hardly anyone to whom I would attach the label of stereotypical Badass. Great power more often comes with a kind of stoic persistence. In the world of Malaz, braggarts die young.

If I had to make a gamble as to Erikson's personal outlook, it would be that of an old-fashioned secular humanist, observing great potential in humanity while regularly being disappointed with it but insisting on celebrating the small victories, and detached from organized belief structures. Indeed, he seems to find ideology self-congratulatory and inherently suspect (in the above regard we share headspace). There is a discussion midway through the series between a man and an eldritch being of extreme age, concerning the state of the world and whether there is such a thing as an ideal society. The latter entity concludes the conversation with (paraphrased): "Would it offend you terribly to hear that humans aren't the answer? Don't worry, though--no one else has been, either."

As book five is an extended deconstruction of an overseas empire with an active worship of material acquisition and practical enslavement of the indebted, it can also be safely assumed that Erikson is not greatly enamored of modern capitalist society. This is where Author Tract rears its ugly head: one of the central characters of this book is a financial genius who decides the system he lives in is too corrupt to be worth supporting any longer, and sets to engineering its economic collapse. He's the primary candidate for author mouthpiece, and this should really be a problem...and it would be if he weren't so goddamn hilarious. There is no character trope Erikson loves more than Obfuscating Stupidity, and it is played to perfection here as Tehol wanders about town in a blanket, sleeps on his roof, chases chickens, has witty/inane conversations with an elder god pretending to be his manservant, and generally carries on a lively Marx brothers act while merrily using the greed of financiers as a weapon against them behind the scenes. On principle, I find the active insertion of author politics of deleterious effect to a work of fiction, but it is difficult to object when the perpetrator is so thoroughly charming.

(The above is contrasted with an alien culture collapsing in on itself from ossification of ritual and tradition. The two nations eventually go to war, and I actually quite like how this played out, so to spoiler tags we go: The expansionist Empire of Lether engages in a war of acquisition against its less sophisticated neighbor, and ultimately succeeds...by losing and being conquered in return. In a move that demonstrates to me that Erikson knows his history better than many fantasy writers do, the occupying forces are subverted by being invited into the existing social system, Lether's new "masters" ultimately drowning in unaccustomed luxuries until they've become addled figureheads and life goes on as it was. This kind of development has happened more than once in real life and it pleases me to see it in a work of fantasy.

Erikson's an anthropologist by training, and it informs the whole of his work. Although his personal preferences are clear, he seems to actually understand how societies work and rarely shies away from the uglier details. There is an obvious sympathy for primitive tribal cultures that would make his professional background apparent just from how much time we spend with such people and the care and detail applied to the circumstances of their lives. However, it would be greatly inaccurate to assume any kind of juvenile, Avatar-like reverence for living close to nature. Although he possesses a clear skepticism about whether the material benefits of civilization sufficiently outweigh its more heinous innovations such as slavery, social stratification, economic inequality and gender subjugation, we get far more illustrations than we could actually want to see that primitive peoples are just as capable of casual brutality. Advocating a retreat form modernity as a cure for the modern world's ills does not occur; individual characters might seem to be of this opinion, but it's clear that anyone trying to do so is doomed.

I will give Erikson that much credit: he doesn't really play favorites, and no one is held up as embodying a perfect and ideal way of life. Human beings are made of flaws. Although the adversaries in the final volume are barely known to us beforehand, I suppose they ably represent the forces that Malaz's antagonists always had in some stock: dogmatic thinking, extremism, an emphasis on ideals or acquisitiveness over individual lives. These seem to be the real enemies.

I assume Erikson is also a geologist by inclination, both from the care demonstrated in descriptions of natural structures and from the way he uses this to demonstrate the history of the world. He has a very firm grasp of Deep Time that contributes greatly towards making this feel like lived-in world with an extensive life for which humanity is but a recent affectation.

The other primary element behind the world's construction is, I believe, also what led to the series's glaring structural flaws: it was developed as part of a game with co-creator Ian Esselmont (who has also written novels in the same world) during the eighties. Although thematically the series doesn't pursue the traditional heroic goals of P&P RPG, the trappings of such are everywhere apparent: multitude of strange races with ancient histories, extensive pantheon of grasping deities, alien dimensions a-plenty waiting just next door (we don't spend a great deal of time gallivanting through other worlds in these books, but they do exist), consistently-implemented magic system...So ultimately what we have here is a recreation of someone's killer gaming campaign. This doesn't inherently bother me, I suppose. But the net result is that Erikson had the plot of these books so thoroughly mapped in advance because, well, they'd already happened, and I theorize that ultimately most of the books' problems with plot and pacing are there because of this. Whether through stubbornness or lack of consideration that novel format might require significant changes in storytelling, I don't know, but I think most of the structural flaws can be traced to the fact that Erikson was essentially echoing what was, to him, an old story.

~

So yeah, it was an interesting read, sometimes even when it failed. I have some significant issues with the series, but I don't regret reading it or anything. Erikson would be a crackerjack writer if he could just clean up his plotting and ease back on the Author Voice.

Favorite character: pretty easily Tavore. Stoic lesbian general = oh my god can you guys spell Cid-bait?

Honorable mention to Karsa for wildly turning around expectations (from his introduction, I was sure I would hate him forever).

Most Improved Odor award: Ganoes, for starting out a really bland milquetoast and ending his run by bitchslapping gods left and right without losing humanity or humility. Damn, man.

Jean Grey award for revolving-door resurrection/butt monkey of the universe goes to Toc the Younger (did I mention Erikson has trouble letting important characters stay dead?)

Best book? I enjoyed the middle portion of the series most because the writing had picked up by then and the bloat hadn't yet overwhelmed. I'll say The Bonehunters because that's where the 14th army got together and they are the source of all fun in the latter half of the series. Worst book is easily Toll the Hounds, in which the only promising plot element turns out to be Zeromus, and the otherwise endearing Kruppe (the definition of "entertaining in small doses") is ruined by being given narration duties.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 18, 2011, 05:16:32 AM
Hmm, I remember book 8 not being horrible (At least, I'll auto rate anything over the first three books, which I found to be systematic messes), although...I don't remember much at all (And I found the Tiste Andii (?) offspring grouping to be a really interesting read). Flip side was that I didn't mind him meandering much (And yes, Kruppe can easily get annoying, but half the characters in the book seem to speak in similar- if unaccented- banter).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on October 18, 2011, 08:36:53 PM
The Andii kids were alright. More interesting than any of the other sub-groups floating around in that book, which is why I was so annoyed that Clip turned out to be possessed by a fragment of some dead character from the first book and maybe a piece of a god or something and fuck man I don't even know anymore, and Rake wasn't even home when he got where he was going! There was Karsa/Samar banter, which is always fine. Other than that, there was virtually nothing about the book that I enjoyed. Envy and Spite seemed fun in their previous appearances but they show up here seemingly just to be tremendous bitches at the end of the book.

Basically I didn't need to see Darujhistan again, much less right before gearing up for the grand finale which takes place on a completely different continent.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 19, 2011, 05:31:33 AM
There was Karsa/Samar banter, which is always fine.

There is always banter! Because he made half of the characters snarky. That said, I literally remember nothing else that happens in that book, which confirms how badly off track he goes. I think he's the only author where I completely forget about a large number of characters unless their reintroduction.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on November 09, 2011, 04:03:55 AM
How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe by Charles Yu:  It is a book for people who enjoy physics, regret, and nonexistant dogs named Ed.

Also, after years of bitching about it, my wife read the first Twilight book.  She finished at 4:00 am.  Bwahaha, another mindless thrall is created.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 09, 2011, 05:21:39 PM
You should not feel good about corrupting other people into reading Twilight. :(

--

Alloy of Law get! It is not Sanderson's finest work, but he seems to be having fun with it. Wax and Wayne speak as if they're channeling Scalzi (witty banter! oh ho aren't we having so much fun being witty and sarcastic!) but I don't mind. Entertaining read, and I'm halfway through mainly because Tor released the first six chapters prior to release and, well, it is a small book. Should be done by tomorrow afternoon at the latest.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 10, 2011, 05:47:21 PM
And Alloy of Law is as short as expected.

It continued to read like the book a successful author writes when he's too bogged down in other projects to keep going without letting off some steam. It's fun, and in some ways it's experimental (the banter was pretty intense), but it's pretty much a Sanderson story set in what I can only call "Wild Wild West" meets Mistborn. And holy god is there a Sanderson avalanche. Also, set up for a sequel or three!

Quick, someone tell a fantasy author it's okay to write a story without making it into an epic trilogy!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 04, 2011, 11:08:37 PM
Alloy of Law- <3

Okay.  So I have to think that this book started with Sanderson sitting down and thinking "hm.  Y'know, if a turn of the century revolver had a coinshot using it, it'd be mind-bogglingly accurate."  And it kinda went from there.  I could certainly read another book about Wax et al, but hopefully it's along the lines of this one; slimmed down, focused, a little mystery, a lot of snark, and etc.

For some reason I really like Steris.  I think it's because you never see that sort of character taken so seriously.  And of course you need her for contrast to everyone else.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on December 07, 2011, 10:47:21 AM
How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe by Charles Yu:  It is a book for people who enjoy physics, regret, and nonexistant dogs named Ed.

THANK YOU. I saw this in the bookstore once and said "I'm gonna buy and read that some day"

And then I totally forgot what it was called and what the author's name was, other than "I think he was Asian".
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on December 07, 2011, 10:45:10 PM
Ready Player One by Ernest Cline: Fun idea that gets too bogged down in 80's pop culture. Still, a strong showing and I'd be curious to see more from him.

The Magicians by Lev Grossman: Deconstruction of Harry Potter and Narnia. Fun, in a hideously depressing way.

The Magician Kings by Lev Grossman: See above (it is the sequel), but add in the most ridiculously low blow ending I've seen in a while.

Snuff by Terry Pratchett: A Vimes book. That more or less says it all.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on December 14, 2011, 04:24:19 AM
The movie trailer for the Hunger Games looked interesting, so I thought I'd check out the book.  Wow.  Absolutely riveting.  Loved it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 16, 2011, 02:50:34 AM
Snuff- quite good.  It's a game to spot where inspiration for the various degradations visited upon the oppressed race comes from.

I have to say though, I thought the Vetinari scenes were some of the weaker in the book, which really threw me off.  Alas.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: TranceHime on December 16, 2011, 09:17:36 AM
i have to get around to finish re-reading that one Nasu novel Kara no Kyoukai because it is loving long and very windy and confusing. It was a Chinese translation in the hopes I could understand it better than the original but no such amazing luck, a lot of it is still pretty arcane to me. :[
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 21, 2011, 02:21:05 PM
A memory of light is due out in fall of next year. Damn you, waiting! :(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on December 25, 2011, 05:23:04 PM
So I've been a big fan of Hellboy for a while, but I've held off on reading the other series set in that world, BPRD, if only because collecting Hellboy is expensive enough on its own. Well, Things From Another World had a Black Friday sale, and the books were two bucks each, and to make a long story short I own 14 of them now.

And holy crap, they're amazing. Mike Mignola makes great comics, this is no surprise, but The Universal Machine is seriously one of the best things he's done and it barely features the main cast except in flashbacks. Which is not to say that what Mignola and John Arcudi (the co-writer) are doing with Abe Sapien and the other supernatural types isn't fantastic, because it is. And unlike Hellboy for the last...what, 10 years? 15? There's a real sense of forward momentum to the overarching story. They're building a world, but they're also telling a relatively focused narrative. Great, great stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on December 29, 2011, 07:03:49 AM
The movie trailer for the Hunger Games looked interesting, so I thought I'd check out the book.  Wow.  Absolutely riveting.  Loved it.

I finally looked into those books. Turns out I really liked Hunger Games... when it was called Battle Royale.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on December 29, 2011, 03:09:39 PM
I finally looked into those books. Turns out I really liked Hunger Games... when it was called Battle Royale.

(http://obamaletdownwatch.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/oh-snap.jpg?w=300&h=270)

Edit: New image, same concept, since the old one failed, apparently.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on December 29, 2011, 05:03:43 PM
Your picture isn't showing up Andrew.

Yeah, I figured it was similar to Battle Royale as well (although I haven't seen BR).  But I liked the description of just surviving in the district rather than the games themselves.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on January 06, 2012, 03:31:38 AM
I've received all my books for one of my seminars (well, I'm sure she's going to add some extras along the way). I've started reading two, just to get a smidge ahead since my semester starts the 17th.

Forever Free: The Story of Emancipation and Reconstruction - Eric Foner
On Alexander Gardner's Photographic Sketch Book of the Civil War - Lee/Young
The Horrible Gift of Freedom: Atlantic Slavery and the Representation of Emancipation - Marcus Wood
Slaves Waiting for Sale - Maurie McInnis
Scenes of Subjection - Hartman
Perfectly American - et. al, including my professor.
---
Also exploring Stuart Hall's Critical Dialogues in  Cultural Studies for my own methodological interests. Joined a reading group with a PhD candidate prepping for orals, and will be re-reading Invisible Man (yes!), and finally reading Frantz Fanon's Black Skin, White Masks (which hordes of contemporary black cultural studies scholars cite in many cases of the formulation of a black psyche and self). Reading some more things, but I want to actually mention something about the books. I normally just mention what I read, and lay everything important out in class.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 06, 2012, 10:23:14 AM
Tommyknockers: Finished! One of the few pre accident king novels I hadn't read. It was decent enough.  Strong ending, weak middle. Gard was pretty cool,  not a lot else was worth caring about in the cast.

Reread new spring as well, it is awesome.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 07, 2012, 11:24:20 PM
Alloy of law- Very good, typical of Sanderson. LD was right to an extent that this book was Sanderson blowing off steam, but it felt more than that. It was a very, very good look at the Mistborn world and it set up sequels. I love the potential that the sociological and economic changes of the time period (1900 or so) provide for a fantasy setting. Sanderson presents a very well researched look into it. one of the villains is a pretty classic conflict theorist put into action. That said!

I do have a bone to pick! For the most part the theories and philosophies of the world are very accurate.  The Broken windows theory that is thrown out? That is not. It's a very modern concept, and even coming to the conclusions drawn from there require modern commuincations and an established professional police force. The police force in Alloy of law is very much one fumbling towards the start of a professional police force. In fact, the main antagonist is a reflection of the problems of the pre professionalism era.

Scandrel is in fact behind the curve on commuications (which fits considering the world) but it just makes the theory being thrown in there make less sense. This is an extremely small issue, but it just jumped out to me due to my major. <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on January 08, 2012, 06:58:14 PM
Finished first half of On Alexander Gardner's Photographic Sketch Book of the Civil War. The authors organize the book around juxtaposing an art historian's interpretation v. a literary scholar's interpretation as to the volume's significance. Tackled Anthony Lee (AH) first and it read like butter. About to read Elizabeth Young.

For an antiheroic and antinarrative reading of Lee's argument, I have several issues with his argument, especially with his conclusion that Gardner's relatively scant inclusion of AFAMs in the Civil War function towards re-presenting a broader "stereoview." Considering Gardner's supplied dialogue necessary to convince publishers of the importance of such image (rigid photos, little to no action limited by cameras in the 19thc, landscape views), several of the quotes he offers undermines his nonpartisan position (re: black egg like head swelling with learning things about the world, how the locals can't even bury their own dead, the volume's price at $150 in the friggin' 19th c and his consumer base).

Furthermore, Gardner exaggerates the physiognomy of the black "posers," whereas the openness of simple landscapes are rote details recounting events passed. Of course the images provided abolitionists with visual aids, but it is worthy to entertain how Gardner's inclusions of blacks was simply opportunistic in the sense that they're readily available to capture as the war's ended, to clean up and bury both Southern and Northern dead (who would pose 30 minutes for one photo near rotting flesh?).

It's clear Lee approaches this visually-based interpretation preemptively, especially with some of his glaring attachments of primary sources not necessarily derivative of Garnder's work, but Brady's. He's not proving anything particularly unknown about the deficiencies of said interpretations. Printed in 2007, he's about a decade late stressing how art history should balance visual interpretations with other interdisciplinary methods.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on January 09, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
The Truth: Definitely proto-Moist book, but largely enjoyable. The fact that William so badly wants to be just another nice guy is entertaining enough and the view of the newspaper and reporting are fairly spot on and entertaining. Mr. Tulip and Mr. Pin are utterly fantastic villains.

Monstrous Regiment: Entertaining. Not much else to say. Characters are a bit weaker than normal (Polly and Jackram are both good, though), but they all serve decently in their roles.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on January 12, 2012, 11:12:27 PM
Snuff: Excellent. Probably my second or third favorite Watch novel now.

The Big U: Very early Neal Stephenson work, supposedly a satire about college life. Which is does really, really well for the first half of the book! ("Yes, you were exempted from Freshman English due to your high test scores, but we've retroactively waived this exemption for your convenience!")  Then it whiplashes into a batshit crazy semi-fantasy apocalypse. It's... barely coherant as far as narrative structure, but the first half is simple enough to follow. Good fucking luck with the second, plus a lot of non-resolution to some plot threads. Oh well. At least there wasn't a whole lot of his usual intellectual diatribes, and what little there were actually WORKED due to the fact they were coming from characters who were, well, grad students and professors who were supposed to be completely full of themselves.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on January 14, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Eric: Short and sweet. Rincewind is always great fun.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bobbin Cranbud on January 16, 2012, 03:39:41 AM
Codex Alera: Furies of Calderon (Jim Butcher)
I've tried again and again to read this past the first few pages. I'm not even sure why it was such a slog to begin with. Maybe the loss of everything I consider Butcher's signature style.
Anyway, once I got past the beginning I ended up liking it. Still prefer his Dresden stuff, but I'll probably pick up the next of these.

Alloy of Law (Brandon Sanderson)
Not Sanderson's best work novel, but quite possibly my favorite. I'm a complete sucker for fantasy westerns, for fantasy worlds in non-medieval settings, for badass banter, for badassitude in general from the heroes and villains (a Sanderson staple), and for brainy but out-of-their depth heroines.
... Even if I can't unsee that damn broken window theory now that it's been pointed out. >_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 17, 2012, 08:01:19 PM
Storm front: Pulpy fun, about what I was expecting. It's a hardboiled detective story crossed with a heavy dose of magic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 18, 2012, 06:36:14 AM
The Boys if you haven't already.  Great story and probably the best entry in "realistic" super heroes settings we have got lately.  Only a touch more so than Iredeemable/Incorruptible but not really as light a touch.  That is just Garth Ennis vs Mark Waid though and both are fantastic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on January 18, 2012, 02:43:18 PM
The Farseer Trilogy- A gift for Christmas =) Been eating these up. Nearly finished. I'm near the end of book three. Lots of Fitz and the Fool stuff going on here.

/me approves of this

Screw Starling, get back to the Fool stuff =)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 18, 2012, 09:01:26 PM
"Look at me! I don't look at all well... I'm DEAD!"

Almost verbatim from a fantastic noir spoof by Firesign Theater, if you've heard of them. (and if you haven't, bug me on IRC; Nick Danger is 20 minutes well spent.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 20, 2012, 01:29:37 PM
Fool Moon: Was okay. Thought the first and third book were better (About halfway through the third). Best scene in the book was Harry talking to his subconcuious/intution.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 21, 2012, 01:36:35 AM
Something that I didn't forget about in Suicide Squad but is still amazing: Grant Morrison being killed by a Mayan werewolf.

I was going to read Queen & Country next, but I may have to ditch that for Secret Six because Suicide Squad left me wanting more. As usual.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 21, 2012, 05:15:19 PM
Grave Peril- Much, much better Fool Moon. Michael is a great partner/foil for Harry. 


Summer Knight- About halfway through. Butcher really is starting to get into a groove at this point.  The books are very quick reads- pulpy is one term for it, but I don't think it quite does the novels justice. His constant nods to earlier books is a great touch, and the dialog is still razor sharp. (I lost it at the Penthouse letters reference in regards to Mauve trying to seduce him.) The 'Buffy meets Marlowe' is pretty accurate- The banter, the quirky sidekicks, the staggering array of evil and supernatural lined up against Harry makes for a hell of a tail. He spends most of the books in some kind of state of physical agony, but ends up kicking ass in some form or the other.  <_< It reminds me more of a really awesome DL writeup than anything else, down to the main good guy being ran by his hormones and picking fights with far stronger beings- and still somehow surviving it.  I don't think Butcher would be worth a goddamn as a swords and spell writer, but his style is perfect for these books.


Harry is in the mold of Michael Westen/Bruce Wayne/Sam Beckett below the banter and hormones- a guy who has a dark side, but is absolutely unwilling to deviate from doing what he thinks is right regardless of personal cost.
Poor Murphy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 21, 2012, 07:01:06 PM
Secret Six: Ragdoll is fantastic.

Edit: Oh, MAN. Cid, you really need to read this book. And not just for the part where Ostrander comes back to write a Suicide Squad arc.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on January 22, 2012, 05:21:35 AM
What is this thing you are talking about.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 22, 2012, 06:23:35 AM
Secret Six is Gail Simone writing a villain team-up book with Deadshot in it, which is reason enough to draw a parallel with the Squad, but it also has a pretty amazing sense of humor, frequent Wall cameos, and Bane declaring himself the father figure to Vandal Savage's estranged lesbian daughter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on January 22, 2012, 04:37:39 PM
Farseer Trilogy- Finished. Really liked the interaction between Fitz and the Fool in book 3 and the Fool in general really. Need to reread Books 1/2 because I have a feeling I might have missed underlying subtext there. Also grew quite fond of Kettle even if she was supposed to be the stand in for Chade or something. The lack of Chade himself and substantial Burrich was noteable in the last book. Sadness. Though Kettle made up for it some and the Fool definitely did especially with his actions during the finale/final fight ^_^  Apart from this the ending felt quite rushed, Kettle's goodbyes/ending felt rushed (well nothing at all really happened here if I remember right, apart from it being noted she'd said goodbye and then was gone >_>) Kettricken's future/condition felt rushed, the end of Regal felt rushed, the explanation for the Raiders felt rushed. Probably because it all happened at once!

Kettricken became my favourite female character, well either her and Kettle with both of them up there~
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 25, 2012, 07:15:11 AM
Death masks/blood rites/dead beats are done. This series really picks up quite nicely after book 3, since all the seeding starts to pay off. 

The entire final charge of Harry in Dead Beats will not be topped. Necromancers animate ancient warriors? Fuck that noise. Harry summons a fucking *ZOMBIE T-REX* to deal with that. That is so over the top that I couldn't help but laugh.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on January 27, 2012, 12:39:30 AM
Picked up three books this afternoon, Book 3 of the Hunger Games - Mockingjay, The Haunting of James Hastings (which was an impulsive buy, I picked it up and read the back of it, seems quite interesting) and Fool's Errand (I tried to resist jumping back into the world with these characters so soon but >_>)

Just reached the reunion with Fool and Fitz in Chapter 5. Second time I've become teary eyed in the book already (first was when Fitz realised his granduncle still loved him and the way in which the scene played out, probably effected me so much because of the old man thing and how close I am to my own grandpa <_< Also I skipped Chapter 4 because I wanted to get to this chapter already *nodnods* >_> It was worth the wait. I was lucky the book shop had the first book in this series and not just the second and/or third. Well actually it only had the first book so.

Probably going to try and put it down for a while and read the one shot or finish off the Hunger Games though because I probably shouldn't stay in one world or be invested in the same particular characters (mostly the Fool though the wolf is quite awesme too!) for so long at a time <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 28, 2012, 05:43:49 AM
Almost caught up with the Dresden Files books. Finished changes; still need to read side jobs. Don't have too much to say, other than the books were fantastic fun. Side characters like Marcone, Morgan, and Thomas really grow into fun characters over the course of the books. Butcher's style benefits tremendously from keeping the setting in one place and with one PoV character. That lets him both maintain his insane pacing and keep doing good character work.

Edit: Ghost Story was okay but definitely not as cool as the last book. definitely curious as to where the series goes from there.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on January 30, 2012, 05:36:57 AM
Adorno and Horkheimer just suckerpunched me in the face tonight, since I had over 500ish pages to read this week, a reading group, two meetings with a professor on top of needing to eat. God damn, not a fan of Marcus Wood (another book) but I totally turned into mind jelly when reading the Dialectic of Enlightenment and an extremely inaccessible German art catalog. I'm slowly falling into barbarism (re: yeah, I skipped 15 pages flatout. And?)

O ya, and I have another halfbook to read by Wood on Tuesday, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 30, 2012, 07:00:15 PM
Sarmiento and Gruber, Ocean Biogeochemical Dynamics, tears. 67 pages of pure ocean science.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on January 30, 2012, 07:02:17 PM
Sarmiento and Gruber, Ocean Biogeochemical Dynamics, tears. 67 pages of pure ocean science.

Read Blue Mars instead. 400 pages of pure ocean science

With Old People Sex!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 30, 2012, 09:04:03 PM
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo: about halfway through and I am utterly mystified as to how this became a thing. I mean, I'm liking it, but the translation shows in stilted language and odd turns of phrase, the first 40 pages are journalistic minutae interesting to me and no other living human, and, 250-ish pages into a book that calls itself a “thriller,” not a damn thing has actually happened outside of flashbacks. The Da Vinci Code had so, so many flaws, but slow pacing was not among them.

Anyway, Larsson finally finished the setup for the mystery around page 210, and the time since then has been spent on the main character (a) moving and (b) conducting interviews with the cast of a Murder She Wrote episode.

 . . . .oh, wait. See what I did there? I said it was “the main character” doing those things, but it wasn't. It was the male lead, not the hacker chick the book is named after. And yet I'm thinking of him as the main character. That's because the titular tattooed lady basically doesn't exist. I mean, she has scenes where the author tells us what a badass private investigator she is, but she hasn't actually done a single thing to affect the course of events in the plot. Nada. Although from her latest flashback the support system for mentally ill individuals in Sweden is seriously fucked up, so I can't say the book hasn't taught me anything.

On the plus side, the mystery itself is Ace Attorney-riffic, and specifically put me in mind of case 3-5, so that's an instant point in the book's favor. Plus the main character is a heroic reporter. So I'm enjoying the read, but for reasons totally unrelated to the quality of the writing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on January 30, 2012, 11:05:37 PM
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo:  Get out of my mind, Shale.

I just finished it this morning.  The writing is amateurish.  At first I wasn't sure if it was the writing itself or the act of being translated from Swedish.  Then he starts doing things like including website urls in his text.  Facepalm.

But the writing does get better as it goes along, and it becomes quite the pageturner.  There is also the curious decision to have the climax of the novel at approximately 2/3rds of the way through it.  This is a big gamble, because if we're not already interested in the characters, there's no reason for us to stick around for *that* much of an after-party.  Luckily, the gamble pays off and you do indeed stick around to see more of these characters.

My biggest complaint is how Salandar doesn't immediately taser the fuck out of Blomkvist upon their first meeting.  Sure it advances the story, but it's very inconsistent with her character established in the first part of the book.

But yeah, overall it was good.  Now I can go see the movie.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 31, 2012, 01:02:21 AM
My biggest complaint is how Salandar doesn't immediately taser the fuck out of Blomkvist upon their first meeting.  Sure it advances the story, but it's very inconsistent with her character established in the first part of the book.

This is the scene I just read. OUT OF MY MIND.

And yeah, the book picked up a lot in the last hundred pages or so. Stuff happened! The mystery advanced! Lisbeth actually did something instead of having the narrator proclaim her rebellious awesomeness! I'm still in it for the reporting.

Edit: Totally agreed on the amateurish details. When Larsson spent two paragraphs on the specs of Lisbeth's new iBook I wanted to punch his corpse in the face.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 31, 2012, 06:46:50 AM
Established franchise is the answer as to why this is a thing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 15, 2012, 08:49:16 PM
News: I'm getting put into the final wheel of time book as an Aiel.

Views: http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/126331_o.gif
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on February 15, 2012, 09:55:29 PM
Stalking Sanderson finally paid off?

Hahaha congratulations!  :)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 16, 2012, 12:48:31 AM
Nice! I'll keep a look out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on February 16, 2012, 02:35:34 AM
There's going to be an Aiel named Super?  Little weird, but okay.  Congratulations.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bobbin Cranbud on February 17, 2012, 04:21:51 AM
That and the fact Sanderson is writing the new WoT books is almost, almost enough to convince me to try the series again.

... but not quite. Still, congrats, Super. That's really cool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on February 17, 2012, 09:58:34 AM
Hell yeah, Super. Congratulations.
~~~
Hearts of Smoke and Steam

There were times during this novel where I felt like "You know what? I could get published someday if this person did", but not in a way where I thought "This writing is bad".... more like "I think that I can write at about this level easy enough". Self-confidence? In my VSMs?

At any rate, the actual book was worth reading, if you read the first of the Society of Steam novels, The Falling Machine, but it's a bit different---in the first book, everyone, from the heroes to the villains seemed very, very competent, efficient, and just plain good at what they do--in this book, everyone makes dumbassed mistakes except for... uh.... some of the villains. Some. Most amusingly is the daredevilesque badass called "Anubis", who has a "I'm a double-agent" thing going on, but.... really, he just sucks all the time. Like, pretty much everything he does in the book is failure. It's funny. (I'm also vaguely sure that Anubis is black, or, as the book so happily terms "A negro", given that someone immediately recognizes a secret about him by seeing a small hole in the BACK of his costume. There's a lot of talk in the book about "Negroes", largely because one of the villains is a KKK-themed guy called the "White Knight". I am not making this up.)

OK, you know what, I enjoyed this book, but I think I might just be a better writer. IN FAIRNESS to Mr. Mayer, it is only his second novel, and as I did find it quite enjoyable and fresh (although lately Steampunk fiction is becoming a real "thing") I suspect that he'll grow into something greater. I'll certainly continue to read the SoS books as they come out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on February 17, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
A Discovery of Witches:  I would say it's a Twilight ripoff.  Awkward woman with hidden power falls hard for super-cool vampire.  But there's enough science and history mixed in to make it a hell of a lot smarter than Twilight.

But!  The book is designed to be a series, and as such, nothing really happens.  It's all just buildup for the next two books.  This is not the way to write a series.  Hunger Games has sequels, but the first book is a complete story in and of itself and stands on its own.  Same with Mistborn.  Girl with the Dragon Tattoo climaxed early, but at least it had a climax.  This book does not.  All buildup and no climax leaves you with literary blue balls.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on February 17, 2012, 04:49:31 PM
Finished the Millennium trilogy (AKA the Dragon Tattoo books). What a weird set of reads. Good overall story, good characters. Neither Lisbeth Salander nor Mikael Blomkvist fits nicely into generic protagonist boxes – Salander is antisocial to the point where it damages her life in tangible ways over and over, Blomkvist's manwhoring even gets on polygamists' nerves. And the villains are pretty well-drawn, although we don't get to spend much time with them before they go down. Blame that on the books being so slow to develop – every one starts with a good 50-100 pages of background and infodump, then setup, and then the plot finally gets moving around page 200. The third book changes that up a bit, since it picks up right where part 2 left off, but the infodump still shows up eventually. It also has problems with the idea of “tension.” The good guys spend nearly the entire book a step ahead of the bad guys. They know it, the reader knows it and the bad guys don't. Thus the “climax” is everything playing exactly into the heroes' hands (although the last fight is nifty). This is why the old cliché where the only plan that goes right is the one the reader doesn't know about is so tried and true – it's not really exciting to see things happen exactly as we're expecting them to.

Now I need to track down the movies (Swedish version, from what reviews I've read). Should be fun – the books would benefit tremendously from an editor, and even a long movie based on them would be edited down substantially.

Started on Old Man's War (John Scalzi's first book) this morning, about sixty pages in. Good stuff so far. I was expecting something more brutal than the actual “youth” treatment, but this looks like it'll have some entertaining fallout regardless.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on March 05, 2012, 01:01:54 AM
The Castings Trilogy by Pamela Freeman:  Overall I liked it.  It was a nice departure from the standard sword-and-sorcery fare.  What I didn't like was the minor character POV chapters.  They were more distracting than informative.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 05, 2012, 03:32:26 PM
Finished Old Man's War and burned through the other Scalzi books that were sitting on my shelf - The Android's Dream and Agent to the Stars. Old Man's War was great. Very Starship Troopers-ish, except I can't freaking stand Heinlein's writing and OMW was a really engaging, affecting war story.

Android's Dream was the opposite - an adventure yarn with the depth of a wading pool, but still well-written and fun. Also a little creepy, because apparently the author is stalking me; my current and former workplaces are major settings in the book, and the female lead has the same name and description as my ex-girlfriend. That was kinda weird.

Agent to the Stars was his first book, and it shows, but it's still fun. Not too twisty, but the characters are good and it moves pretty damn well. Plus it's free online (legitimately so!), which was nice when I left the book at home by accident.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 15, 2012, 01:38:05 PM
Hunger Games: Hmm...

Pros: Very readable. Breezy, well-paced and well-written for what it was. Didn't waste my time at all. Honestly? If I had to compare it to anything, I'd compare it to Redline. The pacing is everything: if it is there, it is only there because it serves a purpose to the story. There's no endless pages of pointless world-building. It has a tight story, it tells it well, damn everything else.

Cons: First... anyone who says this isn't Battle Royale with a splash of Running Man is in complete denial. I honestly expected Killian to walk out to host the Games. The comparison to BR does fall apart due to... it's hard to exactly call it a failing of the book since that's it's aim to focus on just her, but none of the characters in the fight are engaging except Kat. Some interesting, but not engaging. In BR, you got a sense of everyone's motivations and it used the shifting viewpoints well, to great effect. Granted, it's aimed at a higher age-group.

This in itself would be forgivable, but the games themselves... there was no... levity. No gravitas. It just sort of breezed by, the harsher moments sort of glossed over (I may be a bit jaded to call these glossed over though) or happen off-screen, and literal DEM rains from the sky. She DOES do better with the Sword of Damocles hanging over Kat after the games are over, but... it's just not enough. Kat makes or breaks the book. Haymitch is fun, but there's just not enough of him.

Honestly, I can't wait for the movie, because that's what this felt like. A movie treatment, not a book. As it is written, it'd make a killer movie but it's a meh book. Maybe I should cut it some slack, again due to the age range, but I don't know. It's frustrating, because it's still a relatively good read and there was potential. The previously mentioned comparison to Redline kinda falls apart though because while Redline is meant to be watched and be more or less eye-candy with the story there to just provide a decent framework (and it totally works and it's fucking amazing at it. Watch it). This... the author was obviously going for a little more than that. Maybe I guess it's unfortunate I'm not in the age range, but I wasn't in Harry Potter or other series' and still rightly enjoyed them enough. Mrf. Not honestly sure where I'm going with this. Maybe it'll come together reading the other books, because there were very obvious plothooks the DM author left in there for the sequels not just at the end, but throughout.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on March 15, 2012, 06:51:22 PM
The Girl Who Played With Fire:  I think the problem with these books is that Lisbeth is so damned perfect.  She solves Fermat's last theorem in her head.  She boxes better than professional boxers twice her size.  But when the plot is required to advance, she does something idiotic like make the password to her apartment security system a word that anyone who knows anything about her will guess.  When you make your main character Superman, er Girl, it's that much more glaring when you have to bring them down to earth.

Still an absorbing read though.  I'm assuming Faste and/or the jerk from the security company will be the villain of the next book due to the general theme of men who hate women.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 15, 2012, 08:31:32 PM
Yay for Scalzi love!

Boo for the ambivalence toward Hunger Games. I liked them, though I was decidedly disinclined to impose any sort of understanding on them. They were fun to read, not terribly deep, and I'm ecstatically looking forward to the movie. Good enough for a $5 book I bought because I needed something else to read and people had been saying good things. I kinda equate this one to Twilight in that it's pure mental cotton candy, and after reading the first book I really, really wanted to see where it was going next. With Twilight, that motivation was much more "let's see where this train explodes" than the "there are a few places this could go, I really liked this first one, I need to know what happens now, let's do it!". Also, I'm going to stop comparing this to Twilight because thinking of Twilight as a book I compare other things to is making my stomach and brain hurt.

--

Have been reading grad-school-related non-fiction, including study books. Now that I don't have a bus commute, I have no clear-cut time for reading, and my lack of commitment to it shows.

But I've learned a hell of a lot about humanities academe, so there's that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 15, 2012, 08:50:21 PM
Yay for Scalzi love!

Boo for the ambivalence toward Hunger Games. I liked them, though I was decidedly disinclined to impose any sort of understanding on them. They were fun to read, not terribly deep, and I'm ecstatically looking forward to the movie. Good enough for a $5 book I bought because I needed something else to read and people had been saying good things.

Oh yes. It's very good as this. I guess after the hype I expected a little more. Catching Fire is much better at the moment though.

EDIT: It's kind of strange in retrospect. Usually pretty good at taking things on their own and judging them based on what they are. Then again, maybe I still am.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 15, 2012, 11:45:20 PM
Catching Fire: Much, much better! Now I'm grooving with the tune it's pumping out. Nearly every problem I had with the previous one was addressed. Like Suikoden II to Hunger Games Suikoden, really. Much more refined, and the characterization is much, much better in that it at least tries. Despite the same lack of general detail and grit, pacing is still king here and really pushes everything along.

EDIT: I also realized that while Hunger Games is Battle Royale with a splash of Running Man, Catching Fire is totally Running Man with a splash of both BR1 and 2.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on March 26, 2012, 02:28:55 AM
Mockingjay- Was really liking this until the ending, where it sort of pulls one of the worst TWEESTs since Code Gaess' Euphy. The best analogy I can make for the series as a whole is a race where the runner got off to a slow start but has pulled into first, only to trip and fall 10 feet from the finish line and injuring themselves as they tumble to a halt.

The book didn't quite know what it wanted to be this time around, but that's okay. It was doing well, even with the fly-by-the-seat-of-pants action movie end, until...
Gotta spoiler post this one..


Seriously? That thing with Prim dying was so WTF stupid I nearly threw the book across the room. The justification was pretty poor and it served no purpose other than to OMG SHOCK the readers. I don't know if Collins thought she was being clever with the reason Coin thought that was a good idea, but it was a terrible decision all around from a strategy standpoint. It also sort of invalidates the whole, what, third of the book building up to this? I mean, I can understand sometimes you want to be unconventional and with different outcomes the curveball could have been great, but goddamn it was fucking frustrating to go through that whole sequence only to have it end with THAT.

This was immediately remedied by the following events. I liked Katniss' final dialogue with Snow, and totally dug her killing Coin and her justification. Was sort of iffy on the drugs thing at first, but it was kind of okay at the time, kinda gutsy for the genre. But the more I thought about it, the more it ended up feeling like it was less Katniss avoiding having to face the consequences of her actions and more Collins avoiding having to write the consequences of her characters' actions, and also gives no real consequences for said drug use, spinning that into kinda HAPPY ENDING!

I even tried to be fair and take the books from a different perspective, going with say, the books really being about Katniss' journey to a place in her life where she isn't being controlled by others, or other such themes, but they all just sort of fall apart due to a writing style that just sort of glosses over any sort of genuine meaning behind the characters' actions. First person limited is not easy to pull off, and while it's sometimes used well in the trilogy as a whole, it just... doesn't do enough for it to justify picking that over a slightly more omniscient POV.

Oh, and I also stopped giving a shit about the love triangle like, halfway through Mockingjay. Seriously. I'm usually a sucker for that stuff but everyone involved just fucking got on my nerves.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on April 07, 2012, 07:05:52 AM
How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe by Charles Yu

I surmise the following, based on my own personal experiences and opinions:

1)At some point during his life, Mr. Yu has partook in psychadelics of some sort, be they mushrooms, peyote, or LSD.

2)He has also suffered from depression, or at least been intimately involved with someone who has.

This book, for the most part, is so, so depressing. At times I actually laughed out loud, not because it was particularly funny (as the reviews suggest), but because I had no idea what else TO do, because it was easily the single most depressing thing ever. Like those sports movies where an athlete gets a horrible disease or injury, only instead of an athlete, it's a kid who just sort of liked sports and admired athletes, and instead of a horrible disease or injury, they have a painfully slow, nebulous slog of a life until all their hopes and dreams have wilted away through the sheer ravages of time.

That said, it was an enjoyable, albeit short read (I finished this novel in 5 hours? Jesus, I'm getting fast. Time was a novel would take me a whole day.) Mr. Yu certainly is a talented writer, certainly for how he's described experiencing out of time events--but that might just be my brief experiences with psychadelic drugs talking.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on April 12, 2012, 01:38:19 PM
Battle Royale by Koushun Takami.

Brilliant from start to finish---I dunno how so many novels manage to be better than their movies, and with the translation from Japanese, I really expected this to be one of the sole exceptions, but I see I was horribly, impossibly wrong.

This is a novel with a living, breathing soul. With few exceptions, the characters are extremely realistic, highly detailed, and many are sympathetic. It's gorey, gritty, and blunt, but at the same time, I see it as a very positive, uplifting work, if only because as stories about the dark side of fascism go, it's worth keeping in mind that this one takes place in an alternate reality present as opposed to a grimdark future. I find that makes considerable difference in the content.

I noticed a thing about the writing style that reminded me, of all things, the Haruhi novels, and I'm wondering if it's an accepted part of Japanese literature: namely, idiosyncratic parenthetical asides. In many cases, it felt like the author was randomly inserting a joke into the work, and the interview with Mr. Takami at the end of the translation I read does little to sway my opinion on the matter---he's a very funny seeming guy.

Characters exercised poor trigger discipline which would have drove me nuts if they weren't largely innocent 14-15 year old kids. If bullet proof vests worked nearly as well as the one in the book did, then there'd be less war, or possibly somehow more gross and violent wars, depending on how bitter you're feeling today.

The homosexual character kind of irritated me because of how flaming he was, but he wasn't the only character like that, so I later revised my opinion and decided instead of a mincing fairy stereotype, he was actually just a narcissist. Also, I had to keep in mind that I was reading a book from 1999 Japan---knowing only what I can glean from anime and other media I digest, I have no way of knowing if this was actually a progressive portrayal of a homosexual---merely having him be in the book and vaguely competent, albeit not Kiriyama competent) Speaking of the book's time being Japan 1999 (actually, the book takes place in 1997, I believe) it was really jarring to me, even though I knew it was a fascist country, that only like, two people had cell phones. In Japan. Then I remembered "OH YEAH. This was fifteen years ago."

Lastly, Chapter 70 is the most ludicrously out of place thing I've ever read before. And the worst part is I HAVE KNOWN OR KNOWN OF GIRLS EXACTLY LIKE THAT, so it still somehow manages to be quite realistic. Just one of the more amazing tension breaking chapters ever---I have to think good ol' Takami wrote that one with a big ol' shit-eating grin. I know I would have, had I the brilliance to do it first.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on April 30, 2012, 12:48:10 AM
Catching Fire and Mockingjay:  Not particularly bad, but I really didn't enjoy them.  Primarily because they were so damned predictable.  I knew how Coin was going to result as soon as she was introduced.  Nothing in either of these books surprised me.  It was just point a to point b to point c writing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: OblivionKnight on May 04, 2012, 07:14:44 PM
Tails Gets Trolled

Currently on chapter 5.  It is an AWESOME webcomic.  Definitely up there on par with such classics as My Immortal.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on May 04, 2012, 08:37:23 PM
Definitely up there on par with such classics as My Immortal.

Sold!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on May 05, 2012, 08:16:01 PM
Hooray for Free Comic Book Day! And double hooray for stores where the only limit on the number of books you can grab is that you can't take doubles. I got like 20 issues. The highlight, of course, is Atomic Robo. "Other than everything going wrong, it's all going according to plan!"
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on May 05, 2012, 09:37:27 PM
My limit was 3. They didn't have all that much left by the time I got there. Although they did have 50% off on stuff, so hellooooo Incorruptable 5
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on May 18, 2012, 09:08:30 PM
Alloy of Law: Read this entirely in one day, which suggests that it is both short and a bit of a page-turner in that Sanderson way. Quite fun though a bit unsatisfying. It's certainly Sanderson's weakest novel (generally failed to get me to care about its characters; most of them are fairly stock Sanderson characters. Wayne is different, but he's different by being gimmicky rather than interesting) but it was enjoyable enough. The best thing about it is certainly the brilliant setting work; pretty much perfect for a Mistborn sequel meets late 19th century. I really liked the broadsheets.

Plot twists were quite predictable too (I thought it was pretty obvious how a certain "useless" power would own the villain, for instance) and the mysteries I was actually intrigued by... weren't resolved and were left for a sequel, although I feel like I can guess at them too. Oh well. Still a book I recommend reading for all Sanderson fans since it's fast and enjoyable in that same way the rest of his books are, and if setting's a big thing for you this one's pretty darn cool.

Also oi, I just noticed what a profoundly horrible pun the names Wax and Wayne are.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 24, 2012, 09:42:41 PM
Winter's Heart - Done. Pretty good book, although it lies in the bottom half of the series for sure. Just read the 100 page prologue of Crossroads of Twilight as well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on May 26, 2012, 04:17:08 AM
Dragon Keeper - More solid Robin Hobb goodness. It had been... 8-9 years since I read the predecessor series to this but fortunately my memory of it was good enough + the essential things are explained well enough that it didn't matter.

Quite liked some of the character work in this, which is no shock I suppose. All four human PoV characters are very solid, and at times I really wasn't sure who or what I was supposed to be cheering for, which was nice. Quite liked Alise and Sedric in particular (and would have liked Hest but I think I'd like him more if he was less of a dick. Not that this is a problem narratively, he's a dick in an all-too-believable way). Dragons were interesting enough certainly, definitely a bit of a subversive take on the normally majestic creatures... but definitely the human/human interactions were the highlight, and there was plenty to like there.

My biggest criticism of the book is it ends on a note that could just as easily have been the end of any random chapter in the middle of the book. Nothing is resolved at all, it's like Xenosaga 1 (except without the pretensiosness and I actually give two shits about the characters). Ultimately this isn't too big a concern when I have the second book ready to go, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 27, 2012, 06:31:57 AM
Crossroads of Twilight - Hum. Better than expected.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 29, 2012, 08:01:39 PM
Was in the mood for some epic fantasy re-reads, and decided I wanted one of the newer ones. I sadly remembered I'd lent my copy of Name of the Wind to Gate -- so I bought it for Kindle.

Even on a re-read, books like these put me in the mind of lazy summers in childhood, where I could drag my books up into the trees and do nothing but read all day. Appropriately, I cracked this open just before a three-day weekend and breezed through it. Just finished downloading book #2 to my Kindle.

Books so nice, I bought them twice, yes indeed.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Yoshiken on May 31, 2012, 07:29:21 AM
Finally got round to reading The Heroes after having had it sat on my shelf for the last 2 years or something. (The Heroes is.. pretty much a direct sequel to the The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie.)
Solid book. Bit of a slow start, but once I got into it, I really couldn't put it down. Bremer dan Gorst and Corporal Tunny are fantastic, and I'm still a big fan of the changing perspectives throughout. Bayaz continues to be an underhanded bastard, and so well-written, and Calder is really fun to read about.

I know some people here had read The First Law. I've not had a chance to pick up Best Served Cold yet, wondering if anyone's read either that or The Heroes. ;o

Edit: Took a look at Best Served Cold earlier, although didn't have the money for it. It's set between The First Law and The Heroes. Fuck. :(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 01, 2012, 08:03:22 PM
Supervolcano: Harry Turtledove at his worst. He takes an interesting concept and buries it under a layer of bad writing and his own patented laziness. You can play turtledove bingo with the book: Constant ED references from the older male characters, a fuckton of jewish characters (Judging by the Turtledove universe, jews make up roughly 40% of the world population), the same lazy profane jokes he's been using for the past two decades, and so on. The cast is horribly unsympathetic as well, especially the mother.

Also, he tries to be hip and fails miserably at it.  If you are going to try and be relevant, at least get your Calvin and Hobbes references right. It's spelled Hamster Huey, you bastard.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 01, 2012, 10:41:05 PM
With a title like that, it couldn't have ended well. A shame! I liked the one book I read of his.

As for me, I'm just reading Knife of Dreams and I just bought the book Ashley's talking about on amazon. I've been trying to remember since minimeet what it was called!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 03, 2012, 12:46:01 AM
General WoT thoughts, since I am just finishing up a reread.

Top five major characters:

1. Rand-  Is the heart and soul of the series. Is fascinating both as a character and as a historical figure; so much of what makes the books compelling reading is Rand dealing with the hand he's been dealt. Jordan also does a fantastic job making his madness seem completely reasonable as well, bringing it along slowly.
2. Nynaeve- She develops a ton through the series, but stays consistent in two things. A: That she is going to protect Rand and Mat no matter what B: That she will do what's right, and fuck the rest of the world. It's a personality trait I like and approve of.  She is willing to break white tower law and risk everything to save Mat and Rand (See: Being willing to try and heal Mat of the taint, cleansing Saidin with Rand) and never gives up on her humanity.
3. Mat- It's a close race between him and Egwene. Both carry some of the bad books later on, both are fantastic and both start off very slowly. Mat just appeals to me more personally, though Egwene's stuff post book 10 makes this closer than it used to be.
4. Egwene- Has some awful stuff early, but her work after book 6 is fantastic. 
5. Moiraine- She has dropped a little due to lack of camera time, but her PoV's are some of the best stuff in the series.


Top five arcs that should have been cut down:

1. Sol Habor. Perrin's entire work in book 10 could've been done in a chapter or two. What an absolute waste. You can throw in most of Perrin's stuff between 7 and 12 too. He stays static as a character and that hurts his arc tremendously. Nyaneve is not static and confronted her biggest demons in book 7. There was ano reason for Perrin to still be struggling with the wolf dream as late in the series as he does.
2. Elayne's battle for the throne. Drags on for far too long, and has has an incredibly awful gimmick thrown on top after a certain point. No, gaggles of nobles we have no attachment to do not make for compelling reading, and I don't care about Andor.
3. Rand's war with the Seanchan-Only time I didn't enjoy reading Rand. This should have been pared down to a long chapter. The scene where he uses Callandor in battle is good, rest can be skipped.
4. Hinterstrap. Mat's stuff in book 12 is there just to give him camera time. Could've been removed with almost no loss.
5. The existance of the sea folk.  Ciato reminded me of how wretched they were. They go here.

The books slow down when you get stuck with a gaggle of nobles instead of characters you care about. Elayne's stuff really suffers form that, but Rand has issues with that too.


Top five villains

1. Asmodean- His dynamic with Rand is great.  He wasn't a changed man at all, but someone who was grabbing onto any chance for survival. One of the major reasons the Fires of Heaven was so good. 
2. Lanfear- Like Asmodean, her dynamic with Rand was very good. She varies between a blushing schoolgirl and a monster of legend.
3. Fain- Needs more camera time. He barely exists after book 4, but man he's always worth reading even so.
4. Elaida-I will note that I thought Sanderson made her less competent than she should've been, but ah well. A petty woman who lets her greed break the white tower.
5.Moridin- Was unsure what to put here, so he works.

Top five bit characters

1. Ingtar- he's a bit character to the plot, but oh man is he *good* when he's arond.
2. Verin- She's always interesting to see in action.
3. Gaul- His relationship with Chaid and Bain brings some comic relief to Perrin's grim chapters. I really enjoy watching him interact with the world; he's always been a favorite.
4. Silvania- Not going to say anything to due to spoilers.
5. Logain- Surprisingly likeable guy.  His interaction with random Aes Sedai is always interesting. Egwene releasing him and Nyaneve healing him seems to have removed most of his bitterness about AS.


Top five books in the series:

1. Fires of Heaven- Has lots of my favorite characters (Rand, Mat, Asmodean, Moiraine, Lan, Nynaeve), some fantastic settings and an awesome conclusion.
2. The Great Hunt- Has tons of Rand being awesome, plus a bunch of memorable scenes. The battle at Falme, Ingtar's last stand, the ball in Cairhein, etc. 
3. The Gathering Storm- Has a ton of Rand and Egwene, both of whom are almost always good. Sanderson struggled with some characters, but he nailed Rand perfectly.
4. Knife of Dreams- AKA when Jordan gets his stuff together and the series starts to move again. Several arcs get some much overdue closure, the groundwork for the last battle is laid, etc.
5. The Shadow Rising- This could be higher. Tancho is good, the waste is better and even the two rivers stuff is compelling.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on June 04, 2012, 05:52:56 AM
Finally got round to reading The Heroes after having had it sat on my shelf for the last 2 years or something. (The Heroes is.. pretty much a direct sequel to the The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie.)
Solid book. Bit of a slow start, but once I got into it, I really couldn't put it down. Bremer dan Gorst and Corporal Tunny are fantastic, and I'm still a big fan of the changing perspectives throughout. Bayaz continues to be an underhanded bastard, and so well-written, and Calder is really fun to read about.

I know some people here had read The First Law. I've not had a chance to pick up Best Served Cold yet, wondering if anyone's read either that or The Heroes. ;o

Edit: Took a look at Best Served Cold earlier, although didn't have the money for it. It's set between The First Law and The Heroes. Fuck. :(

The Heroes came out 8 months ago. I've ready both Best Served Cold and the Heroes. Both are solid, but I agree that the Heroes took a really long time to get going. I guess you get to spend the first half the book trying to guess who is and is not going to die. Best Served Cold starts out a lot more quickly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on June 14, 2012, 02:48:15 AM
Reading: Sidney Kasfir's (emeritus) Contemporary African Art text.

I'll say this as I decided to rant in chat: there are too many anthropologists flooding the gates of the history of art and architecture. Their methodology has redirected the trajectory of discussing art away from iconographic or formalist interests INTO fairly honest or misdirected interests of authentic documentation and categorization of too many specifics. Roman/Greek art was not privileged to this same indirection. Sure, if you want to make an argument about art as a "western" development in all its linguistic trappings, it only makes sense that it's easier to discuss because of given contexts still relevant to society. However, let us remember how young art history is. Given that, the branch fields are even younger. African art is about as young as contemporary art in consideration of being regarded as a serious section of interest. Almost every text I run into depends too much on raw data  rather than the skills that art history stresses for visual interpretation. So, the best thing this book offers so far is questions into how to unpack pre-and-postcolonial 'African' art, introduced in a global context by connoisseurs, which is now entrenched in a pure market system unlike the clear increase from patron-artist to artist-institution. Kasfir does amazing work, amazing research, it was a pleasure to meet her and listen to her brilliant mind at Emory University and I am truly upset that she's reached the point of retirement, but she's trying to grant way too much agency to unheard voices that this text literally treads into pure listing decorated with broad themes and little contextual development.

Transmetropolitan 1 arrived today. I just finished Monstering in 5. I am glad Grefter suggested this, though I do find the background decorations much funnier at times than Spider's very flamboyant and dystopian snark. The dialogue between his filthy assistants are hit or miss, but I do appreciate his monologues as well as the well-placed image frames. So 1 has 5 issues in it. Purchased it with the intention to have some more background into some hints at older chapters. But I do have a question:

Is this a graphic novel? Or is this a comic? I'm leaning towards graphic novel, and I'm a noob. I believe this because of non-sequential chapters (except for technological developments). Plus he's no 'cape' character.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 14, 2012, 04:00:40 AM
There's no solid line between "Graphic novel" and "comic book" anyway. Spider's no superhero, but neither are the characters in, say, romance comics.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on June 14, 2012, 06:01:41 PM
I'm pretty sure what you're reading is classified as a trade paperback, Dunie. That is, something that was originally a comic and being released as a comic, but now in a collector's edition that compiles several issues together. I may be wrong, seeing as I've somehow never read Transmetropolitan.

Tiassa, by Steven Brust

Brust is a weird author, and this book was arguably the most experimental of the Taltos novels so far, which is really saying something, given that all of the books have a very gimmicky style. Nonetheless, it was definitely worth reading, and it was fun how the MacGuffin came into every individual story, and how things tie in with somewhat un-filled parts of the Taltos mythos. I sometimes wish these books had illustrations, because I have no idea what a Dragaeran is actually supposed to look like.

Lux the Poet, by Martin Millar

The titular character is a narcissistic weirdo and the whole thing is told in first person present tense. On the whole it's.... merely OK. Gaiman says this dude is one of his favorite writers, but as Gaiman is not one of MY favorite writers, perhaps I took his endorsement a little too seriously. At any rate, the book is simply "OK." At least a lot of the chief characters are gay or bi. I guess that's something.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 14, 2012, 10:10:38 PM
I'm pretty sure what you're reading is classified as a trade paperback, Dunie. That is, something that was originally a comic and being released as a comic, but now in a collector's edition that compiles several issues together. I may be wrong, seeing as I've somehow never read Transmetropolitan.

You're right, but it remains a silly distinction.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on June 15, 2012, 12:00:29 AM
I'm pretty sure what you're reading is classified as a trade paperback, Dunie. That is, something that was originally a comic and being released as a comic, but now in a collector's edition that compiles several issues together. I may be wrong, seeing as I've somehow never read Transmetropolitan.

Yes, so I have the editions with several issues together. Apparently it's cheaper that way. I guess once the series hits an 'edition' mark, it tumbles into 'trade paperback'? I've found single issues, but with shipping it makes no sense. And you should read Transmet with me! I'm working mid-counterclockwise.

Quote from: Shale
There's no solid line between "Graphic novel" and "comic book" anyway. Spider's no superhero, but neither are the characters in, say, romance comics.

I don't expect a clear delineation, no. As a noob, however, I'm coming to terms with comic jargon though. I've never tapped into comics despite my friends who are avid readers. Transmet is the first I've purchased non-randomly in an edition that wasn't a single issue. I suppose my question also arises from several riders on the T trying to engage in comic chat with me -- hastily denied any knowledge though!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 15, 2012, 04:58:19 AM
It is a trade and anyone who gives 2 fucks enough to be worth talking to won't get anal about the difference between whether you call it a comic or a Graphic Novel. Though technically I suppose the difference would stem from use of panels and a few other specific things that stem from early comic routes.

Good media is good and doesn't need to be restricted by the medium it comes on for discussion or consumption.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on June 15, 2012, 05:09:45 AM
A statement entirely too sane and rational for comic book fans.  They are nothing without fussing over terminology.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on June 15, 2012, 07:00:30 AM
Kinda like RPG fans.  I certainly remember some heated debates about whether SotN counted as an RPG.  Idun's worries aren't unfounded when it comes to obsessive media fans.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 15, 2012, 07:02:19 AM
Fans like that tend not to have read or liked Transmet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on June 27, 2012, 04:47:41 AM
Not going to lie, but the polish for characters as well as coloring becomes much more tolerable and aesthetically-pleasing after Vol 4. Line-width changes, seems more confident. Coloring less flat and more vibrant. Better narrative box placement. I suppose the thing I dislike about the earlier art besides confidence is that illustrations of Jerusalem's physical features oscillate enough to where he doesn't look like Jerusalem. I could also be partial to Vol. 5 as that is where I began. In any case, the change in visuals do affect the thought bubbles as they become less bold, and Ellis doesn't rely on placing bold text within proximity to other bold text to imply simultaneity. I've finished Vol. 1-5 now, and will get the 6th in a few days. It's pretty damned good, yet I'm sure I don't understand a lot of the scientific jargon (which, could be a point of narrative intent or taste).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on June 30, 2012, 05:26:19 PM
Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter:  Makes me curious to read an actual biography of Lincoln to see how much of this is accurate.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 02, 2012, 12:22:24 PM
Nation: Pretty great. Neat setting and a nice story, but it's also interesting to see Pratchett writing something other than Discworld, because his usual style is so mixed up in that setting.

The Walking Dead: Into volume...5, I think? I'm reading the omnibus and it doesn't actually mark the ends of individual issues. They're dealing with the Governor. Good lord this thing is bleak, even having seen the TV series. Good, but bleak.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 26, 2012, 01:54:32 AM
Guild Wars novels because I wanted to try ebooks on phone and dat hype.

Ghosts of Ascalon - This is pretty standard fantasy low magic adventure stuff.  Group of misfits gather then go somewhere and do something you couldn't do with an army.  Pulp fantasy stuff you can read in almost any setting but hey it works as a tie in novel.  Wears thin when it is just shit raining down on them constantly.

Destiny's Edge - This is the other kind generic fantasy pulp.  Group of misfits gather and be fuckin wicked awesome.  Gave me Dragonlance vibes with the ways I enjoyed it.  This largely comes down to likable characters being thrown in sequences of diversity to overcome.  Difference with the above largely is that the get to actually overcome them instead of just being shit on over and over.  Which is good when you like the characters.

Well at least it solidified which race I will be maining once the game launches.  Asura because Snaff4Life.  Still. Ot sure on class though.  It was weird seeing blatant reference to game mechanics in a book though.  Assassins Creed book I started did do the same thing, but since this is for a game not out yet it is different and feels less referential and more informative (specifically it is describing the kinds of things a new class to the series does).  D&D books for comparison rarely in my experience reveled in that kind of minutiae.

As standalone books, well I would recommend the second one to general fans of pulpy adventure driven fantasy.  The first I would say it is alright filler reading for someone who compulsively devours fantasy fiction like Dhyer.  It won't give you anything new or interesting but it isn't brazenly embarrassing or completely shit it's pants either.  Kind of yet another wants to be Black Company without any teeth books.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 26, 2012, 01:56:58 AM
Fuck you Grefbro, stop hating life and read Bujold.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 26, 2012, 05:21:11 AM
Buwhat?

Just letting you know
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Anthony Edward Stark on July 27, 2012, 02:31:20 AM
Started reading Snow Crash again for the first time in like a decade. Funny how many parts of it seem as dated as old 50s sci-fi and yet some things are creepy accurate.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bobbin Cranbud on July 27, 2012, 04:52:43 AM
"In the Courts of the Crimson Kings," S. M. Stirling

Conceptually really neat - Cold War probes find Mars and Venus inhabited by civilizations much like those described in pulp planetary romances. I didn't especially care for the story, though. The characters didn't grab me, I felt the writing dragged, and it didn't seem to capitalize on the potential of the concept. There's virtually no Cold War flavor here, despite the backstory, and it takes place too far forward from the point of divergence to set itself apart as alternate history rather than simple, well, planetary romance. And Burroughs does that better than Stirling.

I was disappointed, because I liked Stirling's "The Peshawar Lancers" a lot. Perhaps I would have been better served to seek out historical adventure novels about the Great Game.

"The Skinner," Neal Asher

Much more entertaining. Gritty but kind of pulpy action sci-fi. I liked the cast and the worldbuilding, both for the world of Spatterjay and the hints about the wider Polity. Had to laugh at the cover review that referred to it as hard sci-fi, though, with its downright Resident Evil-esque regeneration and mutation.

"The Fox Who Stole Hong Kong (http://www.amazon.com/The-Stole-Hong-Kong-ebook/dp/B008DKXFPG/ref=la_B003XSWL8U_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1341029633&sr=1-4)," Joshua Cole

Spectacular in every way. I recommend it unreservedly to every possible reader. I am completely unbiased about it.

>_>

<_<

This one is mine, so I'm not going to claim to be able to judge it fairly. I think it's good, that using caper rather than mystery (or romance) as the plot framework for an urban fantasy novel is cool, and that a Chinese fox spirit makes for a much more interesting supernatual protagonist than the usual White Wolf knockoffs, but whether readers agree or not remains to be seen.

It was weird seeing blatant reference to game mechanics in a book though.  Assassins Creed book I started did do the same thing, but since this is for a game not out yet it is different and feels less referential and more informative (specifically it is describing the kinds of things a new class to the series does).  D&D books for comparison rarely in my experience reveled in that kind of minutiae.

It's been many years since I read a D&D book, but back in the day they tended to do the exact opposite - ran screaming the other direction from anything that could be modeled in-game, and studiously ignored any possible setting implications of the game mechanics.

Fuck you Grefbro, stop hating life and read Bujold.

Always excellent advice.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 27, 2012, 06:32:35 AM
Yeah that is what I meant.  I remember flipping out one time in some filler Forgotten Realms book that made a deal out of the wizard needing reagents and how restricted spell casting is each day (it was depicting about level 5ish in 2nd Ed.).  It was like whoa that is like actually close to how rules are written (and mostly ignored).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 07, 2012, 10:46:19 PM
Cordelia's Honor - An omnibus of two short novels for one story arc.  So this is Dune.  Not like a rip off or anything, just like Dune level quality and kinds of story.  Space, political intrigue, short sharp bits of violence in a setting where people romanticize violence and the characters are just reviled by it to a degree but will do what is necessary.  I was joking that it was Dune before it even got balls deep in the politics parts.  I read Cordelia as Paul Atreides and Vorkosigan as Duncan Idaho because goddamned everyone in the world loves Duncan and they are totally a slash pairing (Gurney watches). 

Then I finished the book and found out the other billion books in the series are about their son and there is a prequel novel set a couple of hundred years afterwards.

HOLY SHIT THIS IS DUNE.

The book is good, early writing is early, so the first half isn't as well polished as the second half, but whatever it is really just a polish thing (better use of point of view story telling and internal monologue more characterised).  What I am really trying to say is that I enjoy this book for the same reasons I like Dune, it is fairly well written but the truly interesting thing is the setting and characters.  It decidedly lacks Dune's economics rambling (and replaces it some what with Progressive politics boosting, but it fits the characters) and I think it is a bit more humanist than Dune is.

So you know what?  It is a humanist Sci Fi book that is like Dune but pushes a socially aware agenda.  Of fucking course I like it.  It is like Frank Herbert and Kim Stanley Robinson shagged and this was the result (Right down to the sexy sexy scientists).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on August 07, 2012, 11:45:16 PM
And if nothing else, it shows that shopping trips can be badass.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 12, 2012, 01:33:09 AM
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, by Susanna Clarke

Reading Christmas presents two years late, aw yeah. Anyway, this was fantastic. Concerns two friend/rival magicians in early nineteenth-century England, and particular care was taken to make it feel of its time. Not just fashion/politics/history/speech, but the actual prose seems calibrated to feel like a contemporary observation of events quite recent for the author. Quality writing, descriptive but not to excess, and succinct when it needs to be. Very good use of contextual detail, some historical figures pop in (Lord Wellington in a supporting role, cameos by a mad George III and a thoroughly disreputable Lord Byron) but never so prominently that you feel the story is leaning on them.

Book has its own detailed alternate history wherein actual magic is an acknowledged and respected English tradition (this changes...very little), complete with famous practitioners, spells, and psychotic fairies. These anecdotes, when they do intrude*, follow a certain dreamlike logic and are very effective at evoking the air of classic fairy tales while eschewing all the pitfalls of modern fantasy. The actual practice of magic is left almost entirely vague, which is absolutely to the book's benefit as we never get bogged down in any kind of jargon (except when the author wishes to communicate that one of the principal characters is a very tiresome individual). It's smart enough to know that how magic works is less important than what is done with it, why, and how this in turn changes the practitioner.

It's a thousand pages long and covers the Napoleonic wars, but the scope never really leaves the very personal. I consider this a virtue. 75% of the way in events seem to proceed with the inevitability of Greek tragedy, but ultimately the author knows better than to either tie everything up in a neat bow for everyone or merely despair. You feel like you're reading something that doesn't merely disdain modern genre conventions; it doesn't even know what they are. First time author, too. I am amazed at this and must wonder how long she worked on it.

Highly enthusiastic recommendation, people with good taste should feel obliged to read this.

(*Most of this is communicated through footnotes. As we know from Terry Pratchett, it takes a fearsome author to utilize footnotes effectively in fiction. That is assuredly accomplished here despite some of them extending for multiple pages.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 27, 2012, 06:26:23 PM
Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm completed! I am very happy that both books actually have Nynaeve POVs in them, especially 12. TGS is definitely more of my cup of tea, it stars my two favorite characters, but 11 is fine, it finally has shit happening! Hooray. Perrin in 12 is finally not an embarrassment to the series again, it only took five fucking books.  Reading Rand's chapters in TGS filled me with a lot of sadness throughout the book, especially late. I cried during the second to last (?) chapter before the epilogue. Mat's chapters were a nice reminder that I needed to go to sleep instead of continuing to read until 3 a.m. A mercy the night before I had a 15 hour shift.

I'm not so hyped for Towers of Midnight, because I know it stars Mat and Perrin, but I didn't bring it anyway so I can't read it. Maybe when I get back. ^_^

Started Elantris. It's a relatively light read compared to the rather depressing TGS. Raoden is objectively the least interesting of the mains, but I'm enjoying his chapters the most because they make me laugh and I think I needed a good laugh after TGS. <_<
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 27, 2012, 09:49:04 PM
The Name of the Wind - So I had startd reading this aaaaaaages ago.  Threw it in my luggage because I figured I should pack something other than SRS BOOKS to read.  Picked it back up about where I left it off.  I had dropped it because the general writing method applied was "Entire world eat fuck loads of curry. Get Kvothe in a situation.  Entire world shit all over Kvothe." and then they introduced the female lead and I just gave no fucks about a romance plot in that.

My initial response to not giving a fuck about romance plot was pretty spot on.  I enjoyed this second half of the book more because I went in expecting nothing good to happen, no comfortable closure and no satisfaction with what happens.  Turns out it was quite compelling then!  Oddest response I have had to a book before.  Stop caring -> Book gets better! 

So I went and bought the sequel.  Maybe I will finish it a year after the next one comes out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 29, 2012, 07:52:14 PM
Finished Elantris last night. Odd book. I feel like it has very few really strong parts and basically no really weak parts, it's decent all around but not wonderful. Raoden's arc is my favorite, but I enjoyed all three well enough. I think I just like that arc because it's pretty fun and breezy to read despite its setting. Sarene is a little too perfect for my tastes, although it's amusing watching her in action and she definitely reminds me of myself a bit at times, and Hrathen is great, totally a dickbag. He's probably the best character in the book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 31, 2012, 09:07:10 AM
A Wise Man's Fear - Page 367 Kvothe describes how he lost everything he owned for th millionth time and specifically the item that prevents him from coming under opposing magic attacks.

FUCKING TABLE FLIP IS ONLY REASONABLE RESPONSE.

I enjoy the book but god fucking dammit I would like to go just 100 pages without Kvothe going broke.  I almost think Patrick Rothfuss is a Marxist with his obsession with Kvothe's financial situation and the way it shapes his entire life.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 01, 2012, 02:11:47 AM
I will only pick up the rest of the the In The Name of the Wind series if it turns out that Kvothe is a villain, and what we are actually watching is his gradual descent in madness and evil as life continually screws him over at every conceivable turn. One book that boiled down "Kvothe laughed at a rich boy, now his life is ruined" was enough for me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 01, 2012, 06:00:36 AM
The dislike for Kingkiller Chronicles makes me very :(.

I am reading 1Q84. It is definitely Japanese.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 01, 2012, 11:53:01 AM
It is just very unfulfilling at times Ash.  There is definitely something there!  I mean I went out and picked up A Wise Man's Fear straight after I finished Name of the Wind, but there is also a reason I had dropped it originally.  The Denna stuff is better than I was expecting, but he dwells on it an awful lot (which is perfectly in character obviously).

That said I don't think Dhyer is going to read the final book.  I would bet money that he gets angry and stabs a rich dude then is vindicated then regrets it by the "present".  You know, just like most of his other encounters.

It is a little one note is what I am saying.  It is a consistent application of themes repeated over and over in various scenarios (and then Kvothe loses all his money).  Would be more fun (not necessarily better!) if we got more Elodin and Devi instead of Denna and losing money.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 03, 2012, 01:47:25 AM
Towers of Midnight - Done! I have my reservations about the book, mostly in Perrin POVs and Rand-related POVs, but the Elayne and her extended family stuff was worth the admission price, especially Galad. This or 10 is my favorite Mat book in the series, lots of action and stuff actually happening in his chapters. Perrin's were good when interacting with Galad and the Faile stuff was fine, but the wolf dream stuff is so unbelievably boring and there is a lot of it. Egwene stuff makes me happy as always. This book is definitely a worthwhile entry to the series, though not as good as TGS, though it might be if it had less wolf dreams and less Rand-related chapters (only the second time I might say the latter about a book in the series). I will withhold overall judgment on the subject of Rand altogether until the end of the series, but I don't like where they angled.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 03, 2012, 03:42:33 AM
It is just very unfulfilling at times Ash.  There is definitely something there!

In fairness, you can generally find something decent in most books in some manner (Looking it up Shadowmarch which was completely awesome is near ranked 380,000 in Amazon books. Feast of Souls is 370,000. River of Shadows is 50,000. Way of Kings is 17,000. In the Name of the Wind is 3,700. The first four are all really good for more than a little something there! A Cavern of Black Ice, which is a few years older, but actually uses that constantly throwing of shit on top of the  character to actually build a story and develop characters is 400,000).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 03, 2012, 04:32:06 AM
J.V. Jones has a bit more experience as a published author by now (it didn't really work as well back in Baker's Boy for example).  She also used a setting that is a bit more actively aggressive than that in Kingkiller (which is hostile at some points, but things like the University just don't exist in Jones' work).  Tarbaen is rough, but it isn't an arctic wasteland infested with various kinds of dark magics.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 05, 2012, 08:33:43 AM
Baker's Boy was well balanced though by having a lot of offsetting semi comical perspectives (I don't remember any of these being in In the Name of the Wind, and they probably would have gone pretty far. Even the end of In the Name of Wind promises that the character will at least be shit on twice majorly before he catches up to modern day). Have you read the Cavern of Black Ice series? When I reread it a few years ago it really went up in my estimation.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 05, 2012, 09:06:02 AM
I read the first two books, liked them well enough.  Meant to get to them again but lost track of it half way through Uni when I was busy with this.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 29, 2012, 12:17:20 AM
Not a book, but I read I Have No Mouth, But I Must Scream on Djinn's request. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on September 29, 2012, 05:26:06 AM
The Intrigues of Haruhi Suzumiya

This book really needed more Koizumi, which is the case for all Haruhi books. Otherwise....

This is a heavily Asahina based book... it's odd that this is the largest book of the series so far when... so very little actually happens. We get introduced to some new villains of the story, finally, but almost all of the action takes place in Kyon's head. This is usually the case, and Kyon is an excellent narrator most of the time, but this book really felt like it could have had a few parts just cut out and be turned into one of the many short-stories that are part of the canon.

I'm actually starting to get annoyed at how little Haruhi and Koizumi are starting to operate in these stories. Haruhi is the titular character and probably deserves some more page-time simply for that reason, but really, she hasn't even been a macguffin in the last several big stories. She's barely had any presence at all, and in this story, she actually seems to factor in less than fucking Tsuruya does, which is just wrong.

Koizumi, for his part, has been my favorite character for most of the books, and the entire anime. Kyon is awesome, but I like the longwinded massive speculation and possible scenarios that the guy brings up, and how he usually says something incredibly disturbing and then shrugs his shoulders and declares "But I'm not an expert". The comedy of the character sits extremely well for me. I also like how he's more obvious of an actor than the two girls are.

At any rate.... it just felt bloated in some parts and stingy in other parts. It was worth reading if you like Haruhi novels, but it was.... oddly disappointing. It's like.... an elephant ear. It's too much food, but even after you're done, you're hungry again like an hour later.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 29, 2012, 06:32:29 AM
I read nothing for a while, then read a whole lot of shit at once. Brief reviews. Probably full of spoilers:

Fifty Shades of Grey, plus the other two the names of which I can't be arsed to remember
They are as advertised. It is much like Twilight in that the writing is decent enough that I keep reading, but also much like Twilight in the shitty ideas department in that it's pretty damn obvious this woman was like "I liked Twilight, what would happen if..." I'm normally a fan of that kind of logic, because it leads to some fantastic fiction, but this is not one of those cases.

If you brave this, be ready for a lot of sex. A LOT of sex. I think the "story" that does not have sex could be boiled down into a slim novella. (If you take out all of the wish fulfillment, you would have neither Twilight nor Fifty Shades of Grey.) I am still utterly amazed at the number of grown-ass women who publicly declare this is their favorite book, or who buy onesies for their children that say shit like "Conceived after mommy read Fifty Shades of Grey" or whatever.

A net plus for the BDSM community, I guess? Even though I'm pretty sure they're whining about how "inauthentic" the BDSM in the book is.

The Start-up of You: Adapt to the Future, Invest in Yourself, and Transform Your Career
Do you read the internet? Are you familiar with entrepreneur culture? Okay. You can skip this book. (EDIT: Also, this (http://fosslien.com/startup/).)

Coraline
Despite loving Neil Gaiman, reading the shit out of everything he writes, and having seen the movie, I'd actually not read this before. Now that I have, I appreciate how fucking brilliant the film adaptation was. The book was pretty excellent, and did some things better than the movie could, but overall the film version is pretty spot on for themes and characterization.

Graceling and Bitterblue
Two different books in the same world. Interesting, a decent read, but much more Dark Lord of Derkholm than, oh, Mistborn. Made for an interesting enough read, but they felt really shallow. (A slightly unfair comparison. I fucking love Dark Lord of Derkholm, and these weren't parodies.)

My favorite thing was heterochromia being a signifier of magic talent.

Everneath
This is pretty obviously a teen romance kind of setting, but you know what? I don't care. I like teen books sometimes. I like when the world is simple enough to be nothing more than what problems you have right in front of you, whether they be an irresistible attraction to a boy or a fight for the fate of the world against some supernatural shit. Kinda interested in reading the next one, even.

Legend of the Oceina Dragon (The Dragons Saga #1)
I am glad I read this because I had forgotten how bad fiction can be. Good god. Considering I read this shortly before I started Fifty Shades, I think I understand a bit more why Fifty Shades didn't seem so bad.

Lilith's Brood (Dawn, Adulthood Rites, and Imago)
Alien sex.

Okay, okay -- it's about what would happen if aliens came to save us from ourselves, and what our future could be if part of the bargain was to iterate in ways that were no longer human. It felt a little like the Mars Trilogy in asking questions about what the future could hold, but it didn't have nearly the depth (or science) that those books did. It was a pretty simple story, all told, with some aliens thrown in. And the alien sex was only gratuitous in the first book.

1Q84
I am still finishing this (83% through, according to my Kindle), but I will say this: this book is not for the faint of heart. This is 900-fucking-pages of partially-translated literature. I say "partially translated" because it is steeped in so many things that are so Japanese that they can't be adequately localized for an English-speaking audience. I say literature because, well, it is. With all those connotations -- including the ones about pretentiousness and unnecessarily thick plot.

But hey, I'm still trying to finish it, so there's that. And it is interesting.

Stormdancer
New release by a new(?) author. This is Japanese steampunk, and it fucking rocks for that reason alone. But also griffins and sci-magic and a female protagonist and tattoos as a status symbol and eco-terrorism and fucking chainsaw katanas.

You should read it. If nothing else, it's fun and fairly brief.

About 10 Pern books
I grew up reading this shit, thought it was time for a re-read. Also read a few ones by her son. They are obviously a product of their times, but I saw in them what made me get into internet fandom communities all the same.

Her son is a terrible, terrible follow-up. He gets away with publishing fan-fiction because a) the McCaffrey lawyers were dicks about letting anyone else write any; b) he has her last name.

--

On the list:

Jhereg, as soon as I figure what the fuck I did with my copy
Shadow Show: All-New Stories in Celebration of Ray Bradbury, when I get in the mood to read shorts again
Sundiver, when I need a paperback to occupy me

Pre-ordered:

Cold Days C'mooooon Dresden Files! (end of November)
A Memory of Light Can't not finish it. Duh. (beginning of January)
4-Hour Chef If you can get past the marketing bullshit, which I admit is pretty damn thick, there are some genuinely interesting nuggets in what Tim Ferriss has to say. Doesn't mean you have to forgo hating him for being a douchebag, but still.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 07, 2012, 01:08:12 AM
So I decided to re-read the last few Wheel of Time books in anticipation of A Memory of Light coming out in a few months. I began with Knife of Dreams, since it's one of my favourites, and have just finished it.


(spoilers for pretty much the entire book, it's been out long enough. If you don't want to see 'em, don't read this post)


It's pretty easy for me to see why this is one of my favourites. There's some excellent plot movement on a large number of fronts; in particular, all the characters get to see important stuff happening (often resolving things which had been building for a book or two), and there's really only one character arc in this book I find at all shaky. The book really gets inside the head of its different mains well, and following what each of them does is a lot of fun. Additionally, as is common for the later books in the series, there are some really effective sub-arcs in the book, with Pevara and, of all people, Romanda, getting some surprisingly good chapters in.

Breaking it down a bit...

Rand: There is some great stuff in this book as Rand recovers from cleansing the taint only to realise that while things have gotten better for his Asha'man followers, they haven't gotten better for him, as he fights off his own dissociative personality disorder and the sickness which seems caused by his contact with Moridin's balefire in Shadar Lagoth. He behaves like a bit of a megalomanic and wonders why his followers (Cadsuane, Logain, and Min in particular) seem to "conspire" to spite him... very much forshadowing his stuff in the next book. While he doesn't actually personally DO all that much besides slaughter a lot of trollocs, agree to make Darlin the King of Tear as per the agreement hammered out by his Aes Sedia followers, and spend a Forsaken fight dazed on the ground after Semirhage burns off his hand, his point of views are generally a joy to read nevertheless.

Egwene: She only has two chapters in this book, but they're extremely, extremely good chapters. You can argue she's a bit too perfect in them but her ability to stand her ground in the face of pressure, maintain her composure as the Amyrlin Seat, all while helping win the Aes Sedai civil war from inside the heart of her enemies, is pretty impressive, and makes for great reading. Her dialog with the people she seeks to convince is fun to read, particularly with her assigned torturer Silviana, and she gets in some goo lines elsewhere ("It's in the thirteenth depository, which you wouldn't know about, since you're not the Amyrlin. Only the Amyrlin and Sitters are allowed to know about it... which means I probably shouldn't just have told you right now. Oh well.")

Elayne: So Elayne's pretty great, not much is news here. A big theme of her chapters is how the power is pretty much a drug, and Elayne's going through withdrawal for a while which makes her irritable as hell. She, being the rational creature she is, even realises she is being unreasonable and the dissonance there is fun to read. Also when the Windfinders hold her up to complain to her about trivial shit for half an hour and then say "oh you should get out of those wet clothes, they're not good for a pregant woman" she just screams in their faces and walks off which is pretty boss, because seriously there are no words for that (fuck the Sea Folk). Once that's done we get the fun stuff where she plays politics and recruits the thief, Hark, to spy for her with some pretty classic Aes Sedai misdirection to make sure he's too scared to betray her, and finally her gambit to cut off her Black Ajah enemies, which bad luck kinda scuttles but it makes for some great tension, until finally the conflicts with both the Black Ajah and the battle for the Andoran crown are resolved. My only complaint about her chapters is that there isn't enough Aviendha, as she disappears after the first few.

Perrin: Normally I'm not a big Perrin fan, but there's a lot to like in his chapters. Wonder of wonders, there aren't more of them than the plot deserves. I like his interaction with the Seanchan commander Tylee, the scene with the guy who vomits beetles until he shrivels up and dies is probably the most haunting of several effective "oh shit the Dark One is breaking free" scenes in the book, and his battle plan to finally end the Shaido conflict is straightforward and fun to read about. Plus we're reintroduced to Tam, although it's little more than a cameo. While the character work here is probably the weakest (Perrin thinks about little besides rescuing Faile, which is understandable but boring), the action in the books, which is plentiful, is never dull to read about, and some long-awaited resolution to the damn Shaido arc is cathartic.

Faile: While Faile is never the series' best character, her chapters are pretty fun. Being away from Perrin does her character a lot of good; she doesn't mope around but instead seeks to better her own situation, and her fight against captivity as she navigates the snake Galina, the well-meaning but definitely creepy Rolan, and her cruel captors is pretty solid stuff. I'm still not sure what to make of the bit where Perrin kills Rolan. Neither is Faile herself, it seems.

Mat: Sigh. If only Mat's chapters were better. Undoubtedly the black mark on the books, there's little that happens in them, and they're a serious step back from the character's same chapters in Crossroads of Twilight. Mat's chapters tend towards extremely boring whenever Tuon isn't on screen, in part because Mat himself is kinda insufferable in his self-pity but also because the rest of his supporting cast is so dull (Noal, Thom, Aludra, etc.). It isn't all bad; we get to see Valan Luca being Valan Luca which never fails to make me smile, and there is some decent Mat/Tuon stuff mixed in there, and the scene about Moiraine's letter is pretty effective. But generally, meh. The last chapter deserves note for being a particular mess; not only is it a dull, one-sided battle the way only Genius General Mat can have them, but the concept of the battle is kinda nonsensical... ten thousand men so blinded by greed that not one of them even considers surrender! What. Oh well.

Others: Two villains, Galina and Suroth, get their long-awaited comeuppance in this book, and Galina's in particular just has such a feeling of justice to it that it's great, as she is whisked off to centuries of tyrannical slavery. Their chapters leading up to these points are pretty effective as well. Birgitte, a character I often find a bit blind, finally gets a chance to shine here as she manipulates the Windfinders into helping save Elayne and leading to the defeat of Arymilla. We get to see inside the thoughts of long-time Salidar antagonist Romanda, and while she'll never be the most wonderful human in the series, the chapter does a lot to humanise her, and I thought it was neat to watch her unmask Aran'gar (not who I would have pegged to do it). And Pevara continues the plot arc of the Tower Black Ajah hunters, which continues to be one of my favourite side-arcs, before plunging into the Black Tower and making a deal with a disturbingly villinous Mazrim Taim.

Good stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 07, 2012, 01:19:35 PM
While we generally have strongly differing opinions of a lot of Knife of Dreams (Elayne, Mat), I am with you on the Pevara stuff. It's sad but fitting that the last thing that Jordan himsef published was 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule'. There is such an air of menace there, and it makes you want to read more of that arc.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on October 07, 2012, 06:21:05 PM
The final Mat chapter in the book is one of my least favorite chapters in the series, it is really long and really lame. I generally agree with you aside from a bit less Elayne love (which I suspect is why I don't like KoD as much as you do!). I do really like Black Ajah hunter Elayne though. Mat does feels like a pretty big waste of space in that book, and I think that CoT is maybe his best book in the whole series to date (13 is the best). I guess taking Tuon away was a pretty big blow for the readability, even if I understand why. I've always felt like that Rand generally gets the best draw of supporting cast and is the person who least needs it, which is kind of funny. Mat has struggled a lot with cast since Book 9.

I do loooove that last Pevara sequence. So good. <3

12 next?!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on October 07, 2012, 07:24:00 PM
I am reading 1Q84. It is definitely Japanese.

What is that story actually -about-? I'd heard of it but no one ever gives a summary.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 08, 2012, 03:09:36 AM
That's because it's hard to summarize.

Ostensibly, it's the story of a 30-something author and a 30-something fitness instructor trying to find one another after 20 years apart. But it's also about a 30-something author getting into a questionable writing deal with his long-time editor friend. And that 30-something finding a way to connect with his father. And the story of a 15-year-old girl with a mysterious past and an even more mysterious present. And the story of a secret religious group and their strange beliefs. And the story of an elder rich woman with an unusual agenda. And the story of a professional underground information gatherer who has one of his hardest jobs yet.

It's definitely a 900-page book for a reason.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on October 18, 2012, 10:40:00 AM
In a conscious effort to continue showing my neutrality in the epic feudal internal DL fight between western and eastern games, I used Amazon to order the Witcher 2 and the two new Pokemon games.

I got this instead:

http://www.jodavis.net/videos.html (http://www.jodavis.net/videos.html)

And obviously read a little.
In these times of endless parody I didn't think this kind of thing still actually existed.
It is written exactly like Antonio Tony's erotic stories in Dinosaur Comics.

Lieutenant Howard "Six- Pack" Paxton loves three things: being a firefighter, riding his Harley, and his bachelorhood. That is, until the curvaceous Kat McKenna falls into his arms at the scene of a fire—and melts the six-foot-six tower of bronze muscle...

But just as passion ignites between them—and they explore new heights of ecstasy—a ruthless arsonist with a deadly secret and a thirst for vengeance becomes their worst nightmare.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on October 18, 2012, 03:51:06 PM
She seems to be obsessed with firefighters. Well, I guess they are pretty muscly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on October 22, 2012, 04:48:00 PM
Legion - Brandon Sanderson - Short story, listened to the audiobook.

It was okay? Seemed a LOT more like a pilot to a new television series then a short story. Had a longer falling action arc then most Sanderson works?!

Would give it a watch if it was done! Concept was fun (I know I've seen it somewhere, but I'm blanking). Reader was kind of bad.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 02, 2012, 09:57:47 PM
Wyrd Sisters - So I first read this when I was a teenager and thought it was really quite good.  It definitely got me in line with Witches stuff being my second favourite Discworld novel type (at the time).  This was before I had more than a passing pop culture knowledge of Shakespeare or anything, I think I might have watched a movie version of Macbeth or something but that was it.  I haven't read it since and maybe listened to it not really paying attention once or twice.

Now like a decade later after having read a bit and watched Macbeth on stage this year (we also did it at high school a couple of years after I read the book), man I really love this.  There is plenty of jokes I missed first time around and you can tell Pratchett really enjoyed the source material.  It is something of a labour of love and definitely is the roots of Narrative Causality thing that Discworld novels commonly have in place.

That said, it still ranks the witches as third on the scale, mostly because while consistently good they don't ever reach the amazing highs of Guards/Vimes books and Moist novels definitely get some benefit out of being fresh and new to the setting, giving you some new world views
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 08, 2012, 12:13:39 AM
Harry Potter: Read this series over the past few weeks to break up the pain of essay writing. It was very, very good. Starts off as a children's series and then promptly gets much darker (and longer) halfway through the fourth book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 08, 2012, 04:10:15 AM
Speaking of Harry Potter...

I just finished The Casual Vacancy, JK's follow-up "for adults and seriously there is no magic" novel. It was... well, very different. It's a big, messy dive into contemporary British life. It lives off what talents Rowling has for crafting characters and a serviceable plot. Whether you read this book, and whether you like it, will depend very much on how you like to read about normal people, because they're the ones that inhabit this story, and their fits and foibles are what drive it.

I won't call it a favorite, but I think it's a strong novel. It has a whiff of melodrama that cements its verisimilitude. (Because, seriously -- have you seen the way people act in the suburbs?)

Ultimately, it's a book about petty lives. It is crude, and grim, and basically pits ~20 people of various ages, social statuses, and maturity against one another. It digs into things that drive people down ugly paths. The ending is very bittersweet, and fitting. It has and is schadenfreude, and whatever levity you get is Britcom (ie, not laugh out loud funny, but dry and twisted funny).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 08, 2012, 06:24:16 AM
is there a stephen fry audio book version though?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 08, 2012, 06:26:25 AM
<Grefter> not gonna lie I would listen to cats having sex as long as it was Stephen Fry doing the howling.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 08, 2012, 06:30:13 AM
I am actually going to get around to listening to the HP books.  But if she has a legit piece of adult fiction that fits that description voiced by Fry it is far more worthy of being my introduction.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 08, 2012, 08:07:53 AM
Alas, no Stephen Fry this time -- Tom Hollander (aka Lord Cutler Beckett of Pirates of the Caribbean) reads this one.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on December 10, 2012, 03:37:18 AM
Cold Days: started this. One of the main characters is named Cat Sith, and there's at least one ridiculously obscure Star Wars joke about that. Still waiting on an FF7 reference.

Infinite Crisis: I think I lost at least fifteen IQ points reading this.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on December 10, 2012, 06:38:26 AM
You do know that Cait Sith had a meaning before FF7 used it don't you?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on December 10, 2012, 06:41:59 AM
Of course not. He reads Dresden Files in a complete vacuum of mythic knowledge. It's totes not that the main character makes pop culture references at a rate of 1.21 per page.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on December 10, 2012, 11:52:07 AM
Plus if he used the name to make a joke about the verbal tics of some Expanded Universe authors, it's not like the FF7 reference would be too obscure.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on December 11, 2012, 12:37:03 AM
Jealous of Rob and people who can get Hawkeye.
~~~

Neverwinter, by RA Salvatore (8/10)

The first book in the third chapter of the life of Drizzt Do'Urden, Neverwinter manages to be one of the better novels in the series, which is impressive, because most of the supporting cast is either not present or dead. We're introduced to a darker, more reckless Drizzt, and the character really benefits from it. The quote on the back cover reads "I am alone. I am free." You can almost see how Salvatore perhaps believes that himself--freeing his character from the emotional ties of his companions really lets Salvatore take him in whatever direction he wants to. I'm down with this, since personally, I've always felt that Drizzt is at his best when he takes needless insane risks to win the battle, as opposed to just being really skilled. There's more banter and danger to the character than there has been in a while, and I very much like this trend.

Dahlia is still there and still kind of blah. She's suitable in her role as "Crazy bitch", and has a few decent scenes. I don't really like the character, but I don't dislike her either.

SPOILER ALERT: The dude you already fucking knew was Entreri is Entreri, and as always, he's the best fucking thing in these books. As with every Entreri book past.... Jesus, I dunno. The Legacy? Probably every book past the first trilogy, Entreri has at least two moments that make me laugh out loud. The personality on this character is masterful. He's not comic relief, but he's consistently the most amusing character in the series. He even cracks Drizzt up with his acerbic wit a few times. I like that he's basically utterly Alegni's slave, but the chapters from Alegni's point of view do mention a few times that he's still somewhat afraid of good ol "Barrabus" finding a way to off him. I also like how this book continues the trend of people thinking Entreri is some kind of hero, when really he's just a killing machine that they have the good fortune of having him be pissed off at what is bothering them. For all that, yes, the character is increasingly murdering the hell out of things for fucking with the lives of ordinary people.

The downsides are the usual Salvatore stuff. Can't write sexy to save his life, which I almost find as a blessing, because the thought of sexy Drizzt is weird. I'm a bit annoyed that there wasn't a scene between Artemis and Guenwhyvar, and I'm in full nerd-rage mode that Andahar and Entreri's nightmare didn't, you know, try to kill each other out of principle. Also, Entreri somehow survives an imp sting, when imp venom was enough to kill Pikel back in book one of the cleric quintet. I know modern D&D Imps don't have the "Save v poison or DIE" thing, but, uh.... at some point the universe needs consistency.
~~~~~
Lost Everything, by Brian Francis Slattery (1/10)
I did not think it was possible to write a novel while covered in oil, masturbating to the smirking image of your own nude reflection, but Brian Francis Slattery has shown me that a man can. I picked this novel up on the inspiration that it was a science fiction novel set, not in deep space, but in a not-too-distant future where the Earth deals with serious ramifications extrapolated from the problems of the day. Unfortunately, Slattery is hamfisted and preachy, and more than a little smug. Also, for a novel that's supposedly full of realistic characters and setting, the characters come off as melodramatic caricatures more than actual people. Keep in mind I attempted to read this after a novel published by Dungeons and Dragons, part of a series to promote their upcoming MMO.

The timeframe skips around for no reason, as though Slattery watched Resevoir Dogs and then decided that he, too, wanted to play with time. Only, after considering it, he decided that it would be best to drop all semblance of style and general coolness because it might get in the way of his MESSAGE. (Please take care of the environment.)

The book is so unbelievably smug, I have a hard time thinking that it was written by someone who wasn't deliberately trying to win an award. It reminds me over-much of a sociology professor I had in college, who was just the shittiest human being I've ever met. Worse, in its attempts to be realistic, it has an ongoing war and then DELIBERATELY DOESN'T EXPLAIN WHY IT IS GOING ON. It's just sort of glossed over. "Oh, the usual, you know. Power. Resources." But there's a (unnamed?!) side and a resistance, but... what the fuck are they resisting? Look, asshole. War is stupid and meaningless but the people involved in a goddamn war tend to know why, and also the people fighting. They don't go "Tum te-dum. Being bombed. Guess there's a war going on. Better flee."

For all of its trying-too-hard prose and terrible setting and characters, I think the real crime of this book is that it's just plain boring. It's not one of those "It's so bad it's good" books, if such a thing can exist. It's just... bad. It's boring. It is a bore. This is a book I literally stopped reading today in favor of doing absolutely nothing.  I could not finish it. There was no reason to. I can't decide if this is the worst novel I've attempted to read lately, or merely the worst novel I've attempted to read. Nonetheless, it's the first book I quit partway since The Wayfarer's Redemption (truly, the most evil thing RuinChaser ever did was recommend me that book), and it's a book that, when I decided I would get annoyed carrying it around the mall, my solution was to abandon it in the bathroom.

Incidentally, this novel has a four star rating on Amazon. Maybe more people need to just stop fucking reading.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bobbin Cranbud on December 11, 2012, 01:17:27 AM
Plus if he used the name to make a joke about the verbal tics of some Expanded Universe authors, it's not like the FF7 reference would be too obscure.

In fairness, Harry Dresden can watch movies, and certainly read books, but can't play video games. If there's an FF7 reference it would have to come from another character and leave Harry at least momentarily confused.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 11, 2012, 02:53:33 AM
The downsides are the usual Salvatore stuff. Can't write sexy to save his life, which I almost find as a blessing, because the thought of sexy Drizzt is weird. I'm a bit annoyed that there wasn't a scene between Artemis and Guenwhyvar

Yep.




Quote
I picked this novel up on the inspiration that it was a science fiction novel set, not in deep space, but in a not-too-distant future where the Earth deals with serious ramifications extrapolated from the problems of the day.

It sucked.

Looks like someone needs some Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson in their life.  It doesn't have dudes fucking animals like you seem to want but it does have old people fucking.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on December 11, 2012, 06:27:24 AM
The downsides are the usual Salvatore stuff. Can't write sexy to save his life, which I almost find as a blessing, because the thought of sexy Drizzt is weird. I'm a bit annoyed that there wasn't a scene between Artemis and Guenwhyvar

Yep.

AHAHAHAHA. Whoops. Thought I edited my paragraph better than that.

"I'm a bit upset there wasn't a scene where Guenwhyvar reacts to Artemis being present, somehow."

I'm gonna keep the original for posterity, though. God damn it, Grefter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 23, 2012, 01:09:33 AM
Time for a final Wheel of Time re-read before A Memory of Light!

Surprisingly, I have copies of every book except 3, 6 and 9. I've been collecting these since the mid-90s, and that covers about 10 moves, plus several thieves (like my parents, who read fantasy, and friends, who "borrow" books).

--

Also bought, finally, Bujold's Paladin of Souls. It's been at the top of my to-read list for quite a while and I finally picked it up yesterday. I'm about 3 chapters in and it's already awesome. I'll get back to this after WoT.

Some day I will actually read Jhereg.

--

EDIT: Damnit! It was bound to happen someday given all the books I own, but I just found a copy of Paladin of Souls on the shelf. Guess I'll be returning this new one to B&N today.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 26, 2012, 01:35:45 AM
Cold Days: Finished. Ghost Story was a bridge between Changes- which altered the series fairly strongly- and Cold Days, which focuses some the big plot arcs. It was good fun that doesn't take itself too seriously, as the Dresden Files usually is.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 02, 2013, 07:09:17 PM
Mistborn: Submitted to the endless Aiel whipping and read. It was good stuff. Very good worldbuilding with a solid central narrative to hang it on - although I was definitely looking forward more to finding out the history of the Lord Ruler than to the resolution of Kelsier and Vin's story.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 02, 2013, 10:06:55 PM
Innocent Mage by Karen Miller - A decent book, a bit of reasonably stock fantasy with magic that sets up the setting rather than is a part of the story, which I appreciate. The story is mostly about the relationship between friends with a bit of overarching mystery. The main character suffers a little bit from the usual main character thing, people love him unless they are evil and then they are his enemies and he is good at most everything he does. He's still not terrible, and I kind of enjoy the secondary characters. The ending I rather like. It's a decent but not wonderful book.

Royal Assassin by Robin Hobb - A really fantastic book, has tons of political intrigue and not too much fighting, a little bit of romance and a lot of good times. It's also another book that has magic in the background rather than as an essential part of the fighting (not that there is all that much). The villain is a glorious bastard and I love him for it. Verity got no game.

The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson - Would be the best book ever if Dalinar had like 60% of the POV time rather than Suetastic Kaladin. Dalinar is boss, ain't no lie. Shallam's stuff is pretty good too, and Kaladin' background story is okay even though he is the NICEST MOST HONORABLEST WONDERFULEST GUY EVER AND EVERYONE LOVES HIM EXCEPT BAD PEOPLE WHO ARE BAD. The whole sequence toward the end is uber-lame where he saves Dalinar's life and orders around troops and gets his superpowers from an honorspren lol. In general I think the series would benefit from laying off Kaladin chapters so much, I hope Book 2 has less of him. Most of the things that weren't Kaladin's present POV were awesome though!

Awakened Mage by Karen Miller - Read the first third or so of this. The back cover of the book is hilariously inaccurate for some reason.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 09, 2013, 03:38:55 AM
A Memory of Light: Done! I am spoilering everything with this, including favorite scenes and characters. See below.

The entire book is a fantastic capoff for the entire series. The entire book is the last battle- the sides of the light battle the baddies.  There are a few surprises along the way (I am pretty stunned that Lan survived of all people) but by and large  it was what I expected. I'm seeing Dragonmount collectively shit a brick over details that were not worked in, but I don't especially care. Sanderson did the best he could and the main story resolved itself well enough. The bit with Moiridin and Rand's body swap was glossed over, but that is easy enough to cover up as well. I'm sure there are a lot of small things that could be picked at, but by and large I enjoyed the book enough to not care about it. 'm unsure how to feel about who died and who lived. There were a few notable deaths, but the body count was pretty light. I don't think this is unexpected. For better or worse, Wheel of Time is not a series that is heavy on character death.


Where the book surprised me wasn't in the overarching battle or character conflicts, but with the bit characters. Everyone from Slayer to Demandred to Thom to Talamanes got a chance to shine a little bit in this book. I was not expecting minor characters to steal the show, but hey. I think he got more camera time than Moiraine, which is just weird. So it goes.

Favorite scenes. I am just grabbing scenes out of thin air here. I reserve the right to edit these.

1. The very last scene. It fit.
2. Rand and the Dark One exploring worlds that could be. The worlds that could be are a recurring theme in the series, and they are usually a ton of fun to read.
3. Rand confronts Tuon. This is one of those scenes where something isn't fully fleshed out in words, but you can pick it up if you pay attention. Rand picked up the song of growing (From Lews Therin likely; it was clear from The Shadow Rising flashback that the Aes Sedai knew of it) and was using it to impress people. The book is already massive, and there is so much (Logain being captured, Alanna being caught, etc) that isn't in there due to time contraints on both the book and the author. It was still neat to see that explained.
4. Logain's last scene. It's been clear since at least book three that Logain would be a big player in the last battle or the events afterward. He is faced with the same choices Rand is given- power in the form of the Sa'angreal or saving people who had scorned him before. He makes a perfectly logical decision here in light of the way he was influenced. I dug it. 
5. Shendla's scene with Demandred.  The book does something I did not expect. It doesn't make Dem sympathetic in the least, but shows his human side; his Ayaad lover had begun to corrupt him. It also shows his reasoning for going over to the shadow- not only revenge, but a belief that he can save the world under the dark one. It's more nuisaned than his Forsaken Seifer act, that's for sure.  He of course acts like a wanker for most of the book then gets killed by a mere swordsman, but that was a fitting end for him.

Other favorites: Perrin breaking Lanfear's neck, Bridgette owning Hanlon hardcore after he had killed her, Talamanes in the intro, the three duels with Demmy. There is a lot to choose from here.

Favorite characters. This is hard for me to order, because all the main players (Nyaneve, Egwene, Mat, Perrin, Elayne, Rand) are mostly done growing in their character arcs.


1. Rand.  This just feels right to me.
2. Androl/Pevara- They functionally work as a pair here. I went from really not caring a whit about Androl to enjoying his chapters immensely. He and Pevara have good chemistry together.
3. Mat- He's a finished character in the book, but I still enjoyed him anyway.
4. Egwene- I'm not sure what to feel about her final scene, but she went out in a proverbal blaze of glory. Feels weird to not note her here.
5. Talamanes- This is odd, but he got a fair bit of character work in the book.


I didn't go into much depth, I am still chewing on things. Some of this will likely change when  I talk to other people about the book. Oh yeah, keep an eye out for me in the book- I'm a Red Shield!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 09, 2013, 07:02:18 AM
You're a machine.

Looking forward to talking with you about it in a couple weeks!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 09, 2013, 07:03:21 AM
You are a madman!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on January 09, 2013, 07:04:53 AM
Pfft. It took him a couple more hours than me to read Cold Days. His machinery is paltry and weak. I believe they made a movie about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKxRN2LdEI
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 09, 2013, 01:19:41 PM
I read cold days on Christmas, the day I got it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 09, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Well of Ascension: Welcome to the Brandon Sanderson topic, I guess. Strong book, not sure where I see it relative to Mistborn because it really doesn't stand on its own well - the ending makes clear that almost everything that happened was just setup for Hero of Ages. So it depends on how well he does that third book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on January 09, 2013, 10:27:22 PM
L'Étranger - Camus &
Le tour du monde en quatre-vingts jours - Verne.

Probably won't finish these. Reading the French versions, obv. Won't respond any further about them, probably.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 09, 2013, 11:57:30 PM
A Memory of Light was SUCH a Sanderson book. A good ending, though, to the series.

I'll probably edit this post later with some more thoughts, or maybe post a new one, but I thought I should commemorate the moment.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on January 10, 2013, 12:31:36 AM
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER.

Bless Me, Ultima: Reread for the umpteenth time.  Rudolpho Anaya is a beautiful man.  I can't recommend this book enough, it's a fantastic bildungsroman with tons of magical realism thrown in.  Read it.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Basically the opposite end of the spectrum from Bless Me.  Reading this because it's light reading and I may as well read something if I'm going to hate it so irrationally.

It's very much a children's book and I try to judge it as such, but god damn does Rowling like to fuck around a lot.  "OK now we're gonna play quidditch.  Let's fuck around with this dragon for a chapter.  Now Harry's gonna spend a chapter looking in the mirror and admiring himself."  It all ties together in the end but it just doesn't do it very well.

I also had a lot of problems with point of view here, primarily that it seems to be third person limited to Harry, Ron, and Hermoine, which is an OK decision (first person and omniscient simply wouldn't work), but it's just so sloppy between those three.  The chapter where Quirrell tries to kill Harry during the quidditch match comes to mind as a particularly jarring moment for this.  We get a few paragraphs of Harry's PoV up in the sky, and then all of a sudden Hagrid shows up! And then afterwards she establishes that we're looking at Hermoine and Ron, and Hagrid did not in fact decide to fly into the game. This is a pretty constant problem for Rowling once she introduces Ron and Hermoine.  Suffice it to say there is a reason most other fantasy writers tend to pick one person to be limited to at a time and makes clear delineations when our focus shifts to other characters.

Pacing was another big problem.  4 chapters to actually get to Hogwarts and then 1 chapter for the climax, with a lot of fucking around in between.  Yawn.

There are a lot of things the book does that make it obvious as to why it's so popular, though.  It's blatant wish fulfillment at its finest, so no wonder kids took to it as fastly as they did.  Her world building is also pretty fantastic, and while I hate the ways she introduces the world to the reader, it's clear that there was a lot of thought put into it, and on the whole it feels pretty consistent within itself as of the first book.

Overall it's still a piece of trash but I can see why people like it. 

How to Win Friends and Influence People:  The first chapter basically says "Don't be Zenny" and that isn't a thing that stops happening or anything stupid like that.  I'm only a couple chapters in but I'm enjoying it so far.  It's a lot of stuff that I've heard time and time again but with a lot of good, clear examples to remind yourself to put these things into practice when talking to people.  I'm not much on self help, but at the same time I've never really heard someone talk about this book and not recommend it, and I can see why.

For the record, no, I will not be putting these things into practice in chat.  Raw Zenny All The Time.

Dance with Dragons: I forget if I've spoken about it, and I feel like I have, so I'll keep it short.  A Song of Ice and Fire continues to be better than the Wheel of Time and anyone who thinks otherwise disagrees with me.  I know the books are written for two vastly different audiences, but I think comparing this to Harry Potter is useful for highlighting how bad Rowling's problem with fucking around is.  Dany does a lot of fucking around in this book, and since her storyline is much less entangled with the other point of view characters' up until the end of the book it can really break the pacing of the book and it sometimes gets a little bit tedious reading about the politics of Meereen when I want rush through and find out what's happening with the other characters.   

However, during this fucking around, we get tons of character building for Dany, and it's pretty clear that all this fucking around is happening because a ton of point of views are all converging on Meereen, so having the information on what's happening in the city makes it seem a lot less contrived once those characters actually get there.  On the other hand, while the fucking around in HP does pay off eventually, there's basically no indication that it will until the very end of a very rushed climax.  Moreover, we get almost no character building for any of the characters during this fucking around, aside from "Harry is unconfident and now he can fly and confidence GET!"

tl;dr: Dale Carnegie, Rudolpho Anaya and George RR Martin yay, JK Rowling boo.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on January 10, 2013, 01:10:54 AM
I'm torn on Dany's recent chapters. It's apparent that pretty much everywhere not Westeros (or I guess Braavos) thrives on slavery, and that by taking the stand she has, Dany is basically bringing the world economy to a halt. This is awesome in theory, and understandably does focus many eyes in her direction. In practice, I don't think Martin has any idea how to resolve the situation, and sending a gang of Ironmen (hate them so much) her way isn't going to make that any easier.

It does give us plenty of Barristan Selmy being a badass old man though, so that's something.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on January 10, 2013, 08:17:59 AM
Zenny: Pretty much right on Sorceror's Stone, and even moreso on Chamber of Secrets. They're very much products of children's literature. If you can make it to Prisoner of Azhkaban, you'll be reasonably well rewarded as the series starts to grow up and stretch beyond standard children's lit conventions. Books 3-5 are constantly building on themselves and improving the quality of the characters, writing and the series as a whole.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 10, 2013, 09:48:46 PM
If you stick with it the series that was written to target the same readers that started it will eventually become a young adult fiction book!

Tragic the Gardening: Purifying Fire - This was a Tragic story about a fire mage.  It was okay because it had burning.
Tragic the Gardening: Agents of Artifice - This is less fun.  I picked this up to see how much of a Mary Sue Jace is.  He is pretty Sue.  Otherwise I am disappoint.  The setting of Ravnica is honestly the thing that got me back interested in Magic after I dropped it way back in Urza's Saga stuff.  It was a cool interesting setting with lots of flavour that transferred over to the card game quite well.  Stuff set in Ravnica after the guilds kind of blows chunks.  I have the follow up book about Tezzeret but that is just going to be about Nicol Bolas and maybe new Phyrexia so Mirrodin + Pyrexians = so few shits to give.

BAD PULP BOOKS ARE BAD OH NOES.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on January 11, 2013, 02:17:41 AM
I bought A Memory of Light today and I've already read the entire book jacket.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 14, 2013, 12:25:25 AM
A Memory of Light - Finished! I doubt I'll ever think of it as one of the truly great books in the series (it's a bit hectic and not particularly character-driven) but it was still engrossing to read and a fitting end.

Still sorting out lots of thoughts.

Specific stuff I liked:
-Rand and the Dark One's war of worlds. The books have had some great scenes of this ilk before and the ones used here were very fitting.
-Androl and Pevara's stuff in general. A bit more character-focused than most of the book, and it was fun/tense in general.
-The Shadow's plot to mindfuck with all of the Light's generals was pretty damn effective and probably the most oh-shit moment of the book. The war seemed to go well at first and then derailed entirely because of this, along with the entrance of the Sharans. Less certain what I think of them... yeah, they're hinted, but still feel like a bit of an evil equivalent of the deus ex machina.
-Egwene is still in badass mode.


Overall I'm happy with it, lots of stuff wraps up in a fitting way, lots of characters get moments to shine. I'll need to re-read it again at some point when I'm less rushed to see how it all ends, probably.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on January 14, 2013, 06:53:16 AM
A Memory of Light:  finished.  It was Good (TM).

Androl is my new favorite character.  Egwene was good also.

Quote from: superaielman
Oh yeah, keep an eye out for me in the book- I'm a Red Shield!

"Lieutenant Super, deliver this message to the front with all haste."  Wow, I thought it would be a bit more subtle than that.  Product placement is ruining our books!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 14, 2013, 07:08:50 AM
Really?  I was expecting like just first name or last name at least.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on January 14, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
Bitch ain't you heard bro got his name changed.  His first name is now Super, his last name is Aielman.  His middle name? Disappointment.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 14, 2013, 04:03:25 PM
I am rather amused that after all these years, Super makes it into the books as... an aielman. How prophetic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 14, 2013, 04:45:27 PM
I guess Sanderson couldn't resist the pun? Kinda hilarious to know that there is a gag in WoT that only a few dozen people will get.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 14, 2013, 09:57:18 PM
I guess Sanderson couldn't resist the pun? Kinda hilarious to know that there is a gag in WoT that only a few dozen people will get.

Nah, it's just my last name in the book. Even better: I am the Aiel version of a cop.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on January 17, 2013, 02:54:52 PM
Finished the Mistborn trilogy. Everything comes full-circle pretty nicely (if a bit too neatly and with a lot of "that previous event was just part of $ENTITY's plan!"). Looking forward to Alloy of Law.

Also read Hunger Games, which has a fun (if totally absurd) setup but ends up as what you get when you remove all the moral quandaries and other such unpleasantness from Battle Royale. So, kinda pointless.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on January 18, 2013, 08:08:51 AM
A Memory of Light- Poetic rendition of the best moment in the book.


<Egewene> Damn you!
<M'Hael> Why do you hate me so?  Simply because I killed that human?  Oh well.  Now is your chance to fight me!  Perhaps then you shall feel at peace.
<Egwene> I will not fail!
<M'Hael> You have already failed!  Yes, use all the power for yourself!  Try to protect the others and you will only guarantee your own death!
<Egwene> This power... it is from all of you!
<M'Hael> The power of creation!?  This cannot be!
<Egwene> Yes!  Now I have total power!
<M'Hael> What is the power of creation?  I have but to crush you and the world will come to an end!  *Balefire*
<Egwene> Impossible!  Now I have the power to defend all!!  *Flame of Tar Valon*

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 19, 2013, 12:31:09 AM
That works shockingly well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on January 19, 2013, 03:41:04 AM
Anyway, more scattered thoughts.


- Demandred.  So after 13 books the dude shows up for real and... actually seriously pays off the wait.  It's the first time a Forsaken shows up and no, we're not winning this with a lucky balefire or because he's underestimating us or because of Forsaken politics.  He's here to kick ass int he name of evil and unless we take drastic measures he's damn well going to win.  It's impressive, I honestly kinda expected him to show up and be chumped in favor of Moridin or M'Hael's asha'men.
- Yay world's that might be.
- Bringing back Lanfear as much as they did was an unexpected treat.  She didn't do a whole lot but it's nice her role in the last battle was so in character.
- Tiny thing, but I can't remember if we'd ever had the wolf name of Graendal before but I really like it.
- That said having Slayer as such a major force during the Last freaking Battle was odd.  The payoff isn't bad but still, not a character I'd have expected this late in the game.
- Meanwhile Padan Fain was completely punked.  I'm not sure what the point of him was with the way this was wrapped up, leading me to wonder if Sanderson didn't really have any notes on the matter and just had to figure something out.
- The Black Tower arc.  I like the idea of it but the pacing everythign for maximum suspense presentation of it wore me down a bit.
-
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 19, 2013, 04:32:15 AM
Hmm.

-Demandred gets taken out by something way less impressive than "random balefire" so I'm not sure I agree. I found him more comical than impressive, though his army is of course no joke. The way he prattles on about Lews Therin before inevitably being killed without Rand/Lews ever giving two fucks highlights how pathetic he is. At least it took a sa'angreal and a previously unknown balefire counter to down Taim, while Lanfear felt like her gambit came closer than any other forsaken's to winning things, and Graendal was deviously effective. Moghedien was useless but what else is new?
-Slayer's role in 14 felt kinda irrelevant to me (he felt there to give Perrin something to do), still wish he'd died earlier although I did like his one PoV, suitably creepy look at a Dark One-ran place. Of course it's still more relevant than Padan Fain, yeah. I'm not sure if Padan Fain was intended to be the ultimate red herring or if your theory is correct. When the dust settles the last relevant thing he did was in book 9.
-Moiraine is probably the thing that bugs me most about the book as far as "endgame relevance" goes. She was brought back for... what exactly?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on January 19, 2013, 05:17:35 AM
Oh, yeah.  He's a joke as a character.  But he's the first Forsaken since Lanfear took out Moiraine in book 5 where it seemed like, no, the heroes are completely fucked.  And yeah, that really is more his showing up with the Sharan, not his own feats, but it's worth noting that for all the treachery of Taim or the machinations of Graendal or Mesaama hurt the Light, he's the guy that shows up in a battle, forms a full circle, and basically wipes out half the Aes Sedai in a single attack.

I guess a better way to put it might be, while Demandred himself isn't as interesting or threatening as some other Forsaken (and hell, even in Memory of Light, Lanfear manages to swoop in and come a hair's breadth from winning it for the Dark One), his use in the Last Battle felt like it actually payed off having him almost entirely off screen, unknown, for the entire series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 19, 2013, 06:10:31 AM
Oh, I do agree with that, yes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on January 19, 2013, 06:41:09 AM
I'm of the opinion that bringing Moiraine back is nothing but fan wish fulfillment.  Her "death" is one of the major turning points in the series and having her return cheapens it terribly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on January 19, 2013, 06:44:19 AM
I agree with that, too, although for what it's worth there's a lot to suggest her return was planned all along. However I guess Jordan didn't leave many notes about her role post-return, nor did Sanderson add much.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on January 19, 2013, 08:42:18 AM
I don't know why none of you are mentioning the ginormous amount of cock that awaits Rand in the afterlife.  Dude is going to need to strap a bucket over his butt because his bowels aren't going to function properly for long
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 20, 2013, 06:15:31 AM
Re: Captain's point:

I don't think it was fanservice. For better or worse, it was something that had been planned out before Moiraine even vanished off camera.  It could have worked if Jordan was alive, but Sanderson got left the short end of the stick.

There are so many small mistakes in tone and characters (IE: Dem thinking that Lan was Asmodean; Asmodean was a terrible swordsman. The awkward way Elayne asks about rebonding Birgdette,etc). Sanderson is a brilliant author but he was given an impossible task here.  Moliraine... ugh. yeah,  That has to be lack of notes. She had to come back for a more important reason than what she was given. I don't think her filling the circle is valid enough, thanks to Rand getting over his trust issues.

Fain is more of a victim of how large the books got.


Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 04, 2013, 01:31:25 AM
The Awakened Mage - Definitely the weaker of the two books other than the large amount of supervillain POV. Ah, the restrictions of possession, always amusing.

Gonna start AMOL next~
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 05, 2013, 08:37:48 AM
A Memory of Light- Finished. Book took a while to come together for me. The 4 front thing got a bit repetitive early because some of the stories were too similar (Elayne's battle is going okay, then a stealth army comes and they have to run away. Egwene's battle is going okay then a stealth army comes and they have to run away).

Around the middle things started to pick up (not surprisingly when characters seemed to at least come into the same vicinity, which is a big flaw of the back half of the series in general). Generally pleased overall with how things turned out. Probably in the middle of the series overall. Too bad that it was not really able to hit any of the amazing of "The Gathering Storm"

General Thoughts on a few characters (This is not to say that these characters were even the ones that stood out the most)
Demandred- Just not personally scary, but he was effective in what he had been doing for 14 or so books.
Dress Descriptions- Not a single one, I think. Also, no woman sniffed.
Graendal- Combined with Demandred to actually have Forsaken be scary for once. Pretty awesome plan she had going (and also made that 4 way story split). At one point in the story she seem ubiquitous.
Min- Got more interesting things to do after an eternity being useless. Probably one of the more interesting sets in terms of interaction for the book.
Moiraine- Don't think bringing her back was fanservice (been hinted at the whole time). I hope Jordan's notes just said "RAFO" because he did not really have a plan
Moggy- Ending felt a bit unsatisfying if only because Elaida and Liandrin already both had the same ending. Otherwise she was mostly a non-entity, but that was her style. Spent a chunk of the book wondering what exactly she was doing.
Rand- Already generally covered. The general plot thread was a nice callback. Decent enough for "final battle" of a fantasy book, which is generally the hardest part to write (especially so with so much build-up). Did not stand out enough to be anything above good though. Use of Callandor felt more Sanderson like than Jordan like.
Taim (and the Black Tower in general)- Taim ended up being very unscary in this book himself (Similar to Demandred, he was effective in what he had been doing for the last several books, but not as scary in person). Black Tower arc was probably the highlight (character development, actual element of things going wrong felt truly present) although it wrapped up very quickly. Felt like it climaxed a bit quickly.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 05, 2013, 03:48:40 PM
Callandor: I think I disagree there. Sanderson wrote that bit, but the actual implementation fits what Jordan had hinted at since like book three.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 06, 2013, 09:00:58 AM
The Awakened Mage - Definitely the weaker of the two books other than the large amount of supervillain POV. Ah, the restrictions of possession, always amusing.

Gonna start AMOL next~

I think I like Miller's other series better. How did you stumble upon these books (kind of obsure, I think)?

Oh, not saying that Sanderson came up with that part (don't really think he came up with much himself), just that it really felt like it could have been his.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on March 18, 2013, 07:01:28 PM
Been reading a lot lately. Well, three re-reads and one new book, specifically.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - It's certainly a page-turner which is a bit of an accomplishment for a book which is obviously aimed at a much younger reader than I am. I'd say that someone should study these books and figure out what quality they have makes them so good at grabbing hold of a reader, but I'm sure it's been done given the books' stature. They lose a little knowing the key mystery but still fun.

Nineteen Eighty-Four - I haven't read this book since I'm in high school which is terrible since I would consider it easily one of my favourite books of all time. Anyway, no shock to anyone here, the book is still wonderful. The description of Oceania's tyranny, propaganda, and philosophy remains truly frightening. I love how even the dusty, gritty details of the setting which at first appear to be nothing more than there for mood are in fact an essential part of how The Party operates. I also really like how the book avoids going the cliched resistance-fighter route and instead turns the tale into a look at The Party's handiwork firsthand. I have lots of love for most things in the novel, but my favourite is probably the sequence with O'Brien in Part 3. "Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to became sane." Chills, man.

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets - When I first read this book it put me off the series and I never read past this one. I actually liked it a bit better this time though. It's still significantly worse than the first, the opening is still terrible (the Dursleys worked as a fairytale-level exaggerated rotten family once, we didn't need to start a second book with them), and Tom Riddle, aka the interesting thing about the book, needed to appear more than twice. But maybe because I went in with lower expectations I was able to get past the weak parts and by the end it had adopted that page-turner thing the first had, so this time I have the momentum to go further.

City of Dragons - Third book in Hobb's Rain Wilds series. Fun fact, I actually thought the series was a trilogy, because all of Hobb's recent works were. It was only when I got to around a hundred pages left and I thought "wow, there is no WAY this is getting finished by then" that I actually glanced at the start of the book and noticed that it was called "Rain Wilds Chronicles" instead of "___ Trilogy" like all the rest. So yeah, it is four books apparently. Anyway, I continue to like these books, even though they're a bit different in terms of storytelling than most. There's a lot more emphasis on small-scale interactions and characters' internal struggles. Most of the "big" conflicts which usually dominate fantasy are resolved shockingly quickly (e.g. Malta is kidnapped by bad guys, but resolves the situation over the space of a few pages). I was a bit leery about the book since it felt like most of the key conflicts had been resolved by the end of the second but there's enough left, and the big overarching problem comes to the fore a bit more in this book (some good scenes there). Also one of my favourite characters from the Liveship Trilogy returns in this one, yay.

Next up is Prisoner of Azkaban; I'm intending to alternate Harry Potter (which I've been meaning to read for years) and other stuff for the next few months.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 18, 2013, 07:53:49 PM
The Awakened Mage - Definitely the weaker of the two books other than the large amount of supervillain POV. Ah, the restrictions of possession, always amusing.

Gonna start AMOL next~

I think I like Miller's other series better. How did you stumble upon these books (kind of obsure, I think)?

Oh, not saying that Sanderson came up with that part (don't really think he came up with much himself), just that it really felt like it could have been his.

Sorry, missed this! I just was at a fantasy novel bookstore and saw the books and read the cover and grabbed them. I actually have Empress right now but been too busy with thesis writing to read it. I wanted to finish Wheel of Time first and that hasn't even happened yet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 18, 2013, 08:03:20 PM
Still in the middle of my Wheel of Time re-read. About 150 pages into book 7. The Long Slog begins.

I've also been reading John Scalzi's serialized follow-up to the Old Man's War trilogy, The Human Division. He chose to create the book as a series of interconnected but self-sustaining short stories, and release them weekly for $0.99 each. It's an interesting approach, an experiment to try something old in a new way thanks to ebooks, and I'm betting it's paying off. The second book was a growing pains moment: you pay $0.99 for each book, but they vary in length from something like 6,000 words to 22,000 words. If you see the purchase as one in a series, it's a valid investment; after all, you get the stories, live, for about the same as you'd pay for the final collected version which you have to wait until April to see. If you see the purchase as A Story, however, you're going to feel sorely cheated if you pay the same for 6,000 words by an author on a subject as someone else did for 22,000 by the same author on the same subject.

All meta about the publishing industry aside, it's an interesting addition to the canon of Old Man's War. The original trilogy + 1 (Old Man's War, Ghost Brigades, The Last Colony, Zoe's Tale) was an enjoyable near-future look at what would happen if aliens gave us the technology to jump into space and we had to deal with how to compete with a bunch of races that are variously smarter, faster, older, more advanced, better adapted, and more tenacious than us. This particular book ... well, no. So far, I can't think of it as a book. That's not so much because of it being serialized as that it's very seriously a series of stories, not a book in parts. These stories fit well into the environment, and carry the story forward. It's interesting! Following the central story thread, you can see where it picks up from where the books left off. It does leave something to be desired, though, and I feel I can lay that squarely at the feet of Scalzi Being Scalzi.

If you don't know Scalzi, know mostly that he is an outspoken liberal asshole, and he is absolutely not afraid to be snarky in pursuit of a cause. His writing is primarily identified by dialog that is quippy back-and-forth. When you separate a larger story into smaller segments, those quippy moments stop being moments and start becoming the entire vehicle for advancing the plot. It can be grating.

Nevertheless, it does make for a quick read. And he is still an effective writer. I don't think you'll find anything particularly deep or poignant here, but he has his moments.

Redshirts is his latest commercial darling, and it would be a good book to read if you want to test the waters before reading The Human Division. The writing style is most similar (which shouldn't be shocking, as it's the most recently created work next to this), and it's got a serial-format epilogue. It's a parody-style book, so keep that in mind. Definitely read Old Man's War and the others before you get to The Human Division. In short: if you want to read Scalzi, don't start with these stories. If you're okay with Scalzi, give 'em a go. It's definitely still him.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on March 21, 2013, 02:52:17 AM
The Awakened Mage - Definitely the weaker of the two books other than the large amount of supervillain POV. Ah, the restrictions of possession, always amusing.

Gonna start AMOL next~

I think I like Miller's other series better. How did you stumble upon these books (kind of obsure, I think)?

Oh, not saying that Sanderson came up with that part (don't really think he came up with much himself), just that it really felt like it could have been his.

Sorry, missed this! I just was at a fantasy novel bookstore and saw the books and read the cover and grabbed them. I actually have Empress right now but been too busy with thesis writing to read it. I wanted to finish Wheel of Time first and that hasn't even happened yet.

This is an actual thing? Lucky! (I would probably buy out their whole selection).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 21, 2013, 03:03:03 AM
It is right nearby the Metal music shop.

Vancouver is truly a magical land of strangeness.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 21, 2013, 05:54:13 AM
San Feancisco has one of those, too. As does Berkeley. Combine that with a handful of respectable board game shops and a barcade or two...

The Northwest is nerd heaven.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 04, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
The Way Of Kings: So I guess this is what got Sanderson the Wheel of Time gig. The inspiration is not what you'd call subtle, but it's extremely well-done nonetheless; I found it much more readable than Eye of the World even though much less actually happens. The worldbuilding is enough to keep me reading, though, action or no action (and when he does get to an action scene they're done pretty well).

On Basilisk Station: Read this for a book club I'm in. It was awful and I want to set it on fire, except it was an ebook so I can't. Boo.

Snuff: Took me long enough, but I'm finally reading the latest Discworld. It's Vimes doing Vimes things. That makes me happy. More cohesive than Unseen Academicals thus far, too. not totally thrilled with the decision to follow ORCS OUT OF NOWHERE with GOBLINS OUT OF NOWHERE, but eh. I can live with it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on April 04, 2013, 05:18:19 PM
On Basilisk Station: Read this for a book club I'm in. It was awful and I want to set it on fire, except it was an ebook so I can't. Boo.

I don't understand how Weber is so popular other than people really like Mary Sues. I actually kept going a couple books out of morbid curiosity and it's just more of the same. I'll say they get better, but they never get good. All the antagonists are cardboard cutout villains who have an unreasonable hatred for Honor, and she just keeps Mary Sue-ing the books up. It's almost sickening. Bujold is so much better than this shit it's ridiculous.

BTW, Shale. Tell your book club to delete and read Bujold's Vorkosigan saga.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 04, 2013, 05:37:02 PM
It was kind of hilarious to read the climactic (read: only) battle scene, where the bad guys couldn't blow up a ship one-fourth their size because they're terrible shots, and the captain takes something like a paragraph out of every page to yell at the top of his lungs that his gunners being unlucky and/or the other ship having good armor means Honor is the greatest captain in the history of the universe.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on April 04, 2013, 07:51:55 PM
Haven't read much myself lately, but my mother is hacking through Sanderson novels like crazy. Not sure if I should recommend Way of Kings since it is so monstrously long, though.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 05, 2013, 12:08:14 AM
The Way Of Kings: So I guess this is what got Sanderson the Wheel of Time gig.

Not quite -- he got it for book 3 of the Mistborn trilogy, though he was also writing Way of Kings before he set it aside to finish the series. Besides which, he accepted it because he grew up with Wheel of Time and was inspired by the epic fantasy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on April 14, 2013, 05:32:26 AM
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - So, first HP book in this current read-through that is actually a new read for me. The main thing I knew about this one is that it had a character named Professor Lupin (which a significant number of my students call me). Well, turns out that there's no insult there, Lupin is awesome. Anyway this book was solid enough, though kinda forgettable overall. At this point the books just feel a bit too episodic in nature, they will be bookended by some relatively worthless scenes with the Dursleys, the defence against the dark arts teacher will leave at the end of the year, Gryffindor will win the house cup, there will be a big plot twist late in the going (though I did like this one), and at the end everything will be effectively reset for the next book. Also Snape felt like he crossed a line into annoying caricature in this book, compared to the more nuanced "good guy" antagonist he is in the rest.

To Kill a Mockingbird - This was written in Alabama in 1960? Holy shit that's kinda badass. Anyway this is one of those books I felt like everyone had read but me, but having read it now, I can say I very easily see why it gets the respect it gets. There's some excellent point of view work (I really felt like I was seeing things through a 6-to-8 year old child), the core drama is quite gripping, and there's plenty of thought provoked - not just the obvious racial stuff, but about prejudice/intolerance in its many forms that people will hold, from the obvious to the seemingly innocent.

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire - Bit of a slow start, but once it gets going it addresses a lot of my concerns about the series. The drama here, the struggles that the mains go through as teenagers, feel a lot more real and interesting than some of the stuff in previous books. Also holy shit, people die. Voldemort goes from being some distant phantom to a Really Scary Dude (he probably expositions too much in his big scene, but eh, Rowling characters do that once they decide to reveal things), we get some good backstory on the time of the Death Eaters, etc. The book still has some mechanical struggles, and in particular I thought the requisite plot twist was the series' weakest (okay, Moody being the villain, cool. Moody being actually impersonated by someone who has been shut in his house for a decade and abused by his father, but nevertheless is suave/sociopathic enough to convince everyone at Hogwarts he can teach AND convince Dumbledore that he's actually his old friend? WTF?). Ah well, still good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 14, 2013, 06:50:21 AM
I have a backlog of books that will take me years to catch up on, so I've resumed reading things at random.

I'm nearly finished with book #9 of Wheel of Time (Winter's Heart). It is amazing to me that Wheel of Time first reached and stayed on the NYT Bestsellers list beginning with the books everyone else on earth thinks are a slog of a read. Whatever. I've spent this much time re-reading the series, may as well keep at it.

I devoured Connie Willis' Doomsday Book which was absolutely fantastic. I can't say that my feelings for this book aren't at least a little bit about the settings (Oxford, near future? 14th century England?!), but her interpretation of time-travel and the way she replicated the kind of life I would guess someone in the 14th century might have led (without getting bogged down in the manners -- it was about circumstance, and humanity!)... super awesome. Then I come to find out that it's the first in a series, followed by Blackout/All Clear which have both been on my list for the past few months and, whew, I am excited! I definitely can see why Doomsday Book swept the awards in its year.

Going to settle down with and get through the final installment of the serially-released Human Division I talked about before. Will have some thoughts on the experiment as a whole, and on that final episode, once I've finished.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 14, 2013, 12:20:10 PM
Connie Willis's time travel books are so great. Make sure you read To Say Nothing Of The Dog too, LD. It is wonderful.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on April 14, 2013, 02:13:19 PM
Doomsday Book is one of my favorite things. Also see Shale. I have also read Lincoln's Dreams by her, and it is unsurprisingly also well worth reading. Connie Willis rocks. Blackout/All Clear are presently sitting on my desk waiting for me to finish my Song of Ice and Fire reread.

~

China Mieville, Kraken: Read this a couple months ago but should've mentioned it because it is hugely entertaining. Starts out relatively sedate--guy works in a museum, somebody steals a giant squid from his museum, various parties of bizarre people take an unusual interest in the whereabouts of said squid--then slides into complete nuttiness with alarming rapidity. Which I guess I should've expected given this is the guy who wrote Perdido Street Station and one of the first things we learn in that book is that the protagonist's girlfriend has a bug for a head. Kraken is contemporary urban fantasy, which in a lesser author might just mean there are vampires and werewolves and maybe the author read a book about fairies once, but this is China Mieville so instead there are squid cults and sentient tattoo crimelords and 3000-year-old ushabti spirit labor organizers and homemade tribbles. I could not present it as a book of tremendous depth, but it is a helluva lot of fun. China Mieville is endlessly imaginative and how the hell am I the only one who ever mentions him here? Dude's gotta be a commie, given how labor disputes are a recurring theme in his books, so I figure Grefter at least might've developed an interest.

But I think what really gets me is that...well, you ever considered the notion that what draws a lot of people to Harry Potter's setting is that they like to imagine themselves part of this secret parallel society that knows how the world really works and draws special powers from that knowledge and is just way cooler than the ignorant normals as a result? I am pretty sure China Mieville has considered this. Because when in Kraken an outsider tries to infiltrate this world of urban cults and arcanists to find her lost boyfriend, everyone treats her with the snobbish contempt reserved only for that vilest of creatures, the n00b, just for asking questions any cool bro should already know the answers to.

~

Max Brooks, World War Z: This was a good book and it will make a terrible movie. I am unspeakably tired of zombie stories and wish people would give them a bloody rest already, but I figured I'd give this one a shot because I was intrigued by the structure of the book. There isn't a central character, or even a proper narrative, and only a very small number of individuals even make repeat appearances. The book is a series of anecdotes from survivors all over the world, at all levels of society, and Brooks is quite skilled at putting you in their shoes and making you sympathize with reactions to horrors both undead and human in origin (he's less effective when writing politicians and world leaders, and does not really convince me that he understands how these people work, but this is an excusable minority of the book). This approach works very well at making the reader comprehend the enormity of a global catastrophe and the human cost. And none of this will translate onto the screen because the only way Hollywood could possibly deal with this material is to jettison most of it and focus on an action lead.

~

Herodotus, The Histories: Two pages in, I encounter the following: "Abducting young women, in their opinion, is not, indeed, a lawful act; but it is stupid after the event to make a fuss about avenging it. The only sensible thing is to take no notice; for it is obvious that no young woman allows herself to be abducted if she does not wish to be."

Cannot tell if sarcasm or not. Presumably not since ancient Greece and women.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 14, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
The Walking Dead- I borrowed this from Shale when I went up to DC last month. I hadn't gontten around to reading it yet, and made the mistake of starting it late last night. Three hours (and one totally fucked sleeping cycle later), I had gotten through the five chapters of the walking dead compendium.

Fun read. The books focus almost entirely on the sociological and psychological breakdown of the characters, which works well enough.

Quote
his approach works very well at making the reader comprehend the enormity of a global catastrophe and the human cost. And none of this will translate onto the screen because the only way Hollywood could possibly deal with this material is to jettison most of it and focus on an action lead.

They had to scrape the script and restart it at least once after it had gone into production. That is a real  bad sign.

 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on April 15, 2013, 05:46:38 PM
Herodotus, The Histories: Two pages in, I encounter the following: "Abducting young women, in their opinion, is not, indeed, a lawful act; but it is stupid after the event to make a fuss about avenging it. The only sensible thing is to take no notice; for it is obvious that no young woman allows herself to be abducted if she does not wish to be."

Cannot tell if sarcasm or not. Presumably not since ancient Greece and women.

I see THIS EXACT SAME ARGUMENT EVERY TIME when people comment on news about women being raped. Mankind is a failed project.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on April 15, 2013, 08:37:36 PM
Yeah, that was exactly what crossed my mind. Twenty-five hundred years later and we've still got stuff like this coming out of first-world politicians.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 15, 2013, 09:15:07 PM
If you didn't want them then you shouldn't vote for them.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Drums.jpg/240px-Drums.jpg)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Bobbin Cranbud on April 16, 2013, 11:41:54 PM
Connie Willis's time travel books are so great. Make sure you read To Say Nothing Of The Dog too, LD. It is wonderful.

To Say Nothing Of The Dog is in the running for my all-time favorite book. All of Connie Willis's work is great, though, not just her time travel stuff.

The Dresden Files: Cold Days
I was extremely disappointed by several of the revelations in this installment.
Mab and the other faerie monarchs were originally human?
The Outsiders aren't a grab bag of weirder-than-weird Mythos creatures from infinite realities, but a monolithic worse-than-demons demon army?
The Winter Court has a cosmological purpose to defend the mortal world from the Outsiders and the Summer Court from Winter, even though previously Summer got a nice dose of both Good Is Not Nice and Nice Is Not Good?
The various minor villains Harry tangled with, and even the Black Council, are just Outsider mind puppets?

All of the above makes the setting less interesting to me than it was before. The actual story itself was the usual Dresden Files stuff, though, and a lot of fun. Same with the character interplay.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 17, 2013, 03:52:59 AM
I liked the revelations about Faerie in Cold Days, but I'm completely with you on the Outsiders. The villains didn't need another level of  villainy. Ah well, next book features the Nickelheads, that should be good clean fun.

The Door Into Summer: "Man, this is surprisingly good for Heinlein. The world building is interesting in a Fallout 'this is what the future looked like from the 60s'  sort of way, and he even predicts the Roomba!"
"Okay, so the villains kind of disappeared by author fiat, but the world's still interesting, and the fish out of water stuff is neat. Plus it's got a cool theory of time travel."
"Did... Did the hero just marry his twelve-year-old niece? God dammit, Heinlein."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on April 17, 2013, 01:57:11 PM
The Door Into Summer: "Man, this is surprisingly good for Heinlein. The world building is interesting in a Fallout 'this is what the future looked like from the 60s'  sort of way, and he even predicts the Roomba!"
"Okay, so the villains kind of disappeared by author fiat, but the world's still interesting, and the fish out of water stuff is neat. Plus it's got a cool theory of time travel."
"Did... Did the hero just marry his twelve-year-old niece? God dammit, Heinlein."

:trainwreck:
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on April 20, 2013, 01:36:43 PM
Wayback machine:  started Snow Crash per the request of a colleague. Love the use of language, although some is a bit too dada since they make no sense in sentences or by definitions.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on April 21, 2013, 12:12:33 AM
I kinda like Snow Crash, which was surprising to me because I really did NOT like Anathem (which I read first) despite really wanting to.  There are elements of Anathem in Snow Crash, but I felt like those elements did a lot better in a cyberpunk/tech-fantasy than in a treatise on language and sociology.

YMMV.

So. Human Division.

I like Scalzi, generally speaking. I follow his blog. I generally agree with his view points, though I definitely think he is a grade A asshole. He's just relatively pleasant about being so outspoken. It makes it harder to hate him for being who he is. His voice is very distinct, and it can be summarized as "quips and sarcasm." If you do not enjoy banter, if you can't stand sarcasm, and you hate witty retorts, I strongly suggest you skip anything of Scalzi's other than Old Man's War/Ghost Brigade/Last Colony/Zoe's Tale. Those have the pseudo-substance to space out the banter. All his other stuff definitely does not.

Caveat aside, I have read his other stuff. He likes humor in sci-fi, and that's what he writes -- well, with the exception of the novella The God Engines, which was his experiment with dark fantasy. (You can probably read that one safely, though it's a strangely unsatisfying book.)

I've mentioned before that Human Division was a "novel" experimentally released as a series of $0.99 eBook singles leading up to its print release. The cost of the ebook singles roughly equals the cost of buying the ebook release, but the final release includes some exclusive content that he has said he will likely release for free/in some other manner separately once the initial sales window for the whole collection has passed. Why am I telling you about the sales pattern? Because another thing Scalzi has said -- and has definitely lived by -- is that he writes for his job and he is unabashedly aware that he needs to make money to make this work. He does things for commercial reasons, sometimes, and this would be one of those times.

Clearly this experiment was successful enough that it warranted a "season 2," so there we go.

But how did it work? Well... I'm not too sure about that. Scalzi definitely knows what it means to write a short story, and he knows how to write a novel. Writing short stories that combine into a novel is not too different from his somewhat experimental arrangement in Redshirts (where he had a short novel with three short-story "epilogues" for a coda).  It felt a little off, to be honest. The individual stories were mostly stand alone. You didn't really need to have read any of the others to have gotten much out of the one you were reading. It helped, of course; as much as it would help to have read the whole Old Man's War series to get the context. But I feel like it balanced a little too heavily toward the stand-alone short stories side, versus the novel side. I may have to see how it goes if I try to read them all back-to-back, as I would have for a novel. There was undeniably an underlying story thread that passed through all the shorts, and the final short was the climax & conclusion of the whole thing -- but it still felt a little too disconnected.

It's probably just that there were so many characters. Three or four mains, I think, but a slew of fairly important secondaries as well. It's a lot to keep track of, especially week over week. It meant that each of the shorts was focused on one or two of the mains and their associated secondaries, which meant it was kind of hard to come back a week later to read about yet another main and their secondaries, and reconcile everything that was happening and how everyone felt about it with the rest of the story so far.

I dunno.

It was enjoyable enough, and I'm glad to have participated in the experiment. Not so sure I would do it again, for all that I'm sure he learned quite a bit about what he should/shouldn't be doing based on the feedback of everyone else who participated. That may only go for Scalzi, though. If this turns into a trend in the industry, I'll participate -- because I love SF/F and its community, and I love to push the envelope on genre most especially when it involves advances in dealing with shifts in technology, which is oh so fitting -- but I'm not convinced that this is the way we should be moving forward.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on May 01, 2013, 03:38:37 AM
Doomsday Book:  Didn't click with me.  Nothing wrong with the writing; I just never felt interested in it.  May have been the setting.  I found the future segments with the Pandemic particularly boring.  Also ends damned abruptly.  I'd like a teensy bit of wrap-up at the end.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on May 01, 2013, 05:20:44 AM
I've read some books but don't feel like yabbering about them here so instead I will comment on other people's reading habits.

Grefter: You should pick up the Magic The Gardening Mirrodin book some time.  "Literary war crime" is the only way to describe it.  (I sat back and read the first 5 chapters in a bookstore once on a lark.  It is Bad.  Bad, bad bad.  And read a longer, rantier review from someone who suffered through the whole book.  You can too, here: http://web.archive.org/web/20031213111512/misetings.com/article/779 )

Elf: Yeah, Goblet of Fire, for all that it's usually considered one of the 3 best books in the series by everyone, has an unusually nonsensical villain plot.  It's even worse than what you mentioned.  Yeah, WTF Dumbledore, even if "Moody" was a true master spy, there's too many things that can go wrong over a long period of time, someone should have noticed.  But fine, Dumbledore & co. eat a nasty competence penalty.  Even worse is that the whole get-Harry in the Triwizard Cup and rig it so he wins deal is just so that Harry can touch a Portkey at the end.  Okay, if you want to do an assassination right, +1 to using a Portkey + mob of Death Eaters, Hogwarts is a bad place to off troublesome students for a number of reasons.  But Harry trusts you!  Why the hell can't you call him into your office in week 1 and say "Here touch this?"  Actually this seems a pretty dang deadly trick even against adults who know how to Dissapparate, hand them a Portkey to the middle of a volcano or something.  The answer, of course, is that Harry needs to spend a year getting educated before the final showdown, which needs to happen with the Triwizard Cup, but meh.  Rowling needed to make up some bullshit restrictions on Portkeys such that this was the only sensible way to do it.

El Cid: Hey, I read Mieville's "The Scar."  Pretty amusing.  (Also amusing in that I read it shortly before playing BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger and a certain other game that'd be spoiled which explores some vaguely similar ideas.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on May 01, 2013, 08:47:06 PM
Hey, feel free to spoil me. It's been a while and I don't immediately see what the parallel might be with BlazBlue.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on May 01, 2013, 09:09:50 PM
More a similar plot element.  Uther Doul has the "might" sword which enables him to strike everywhere he "might" strike, but that seems to be the lesser weapon in his arsenal.  It's not 100% clear because all we have are Bellis's suspicions, but she clearly thinks that Doul runs the entire of the plot of the book with his possibility-modifying musical instrument - an organ, was it?  Anyway, he's manipulating everything that he wants to happen to happen, and sometimes apparently even mixing in a dash of alternate realities into this one, such as with the "survivor" who returns from the Scar.  BlazBlue:CT is a little different, as clearly there's a time loop constantly going on with only Rachel being aware of this fact, but the end result is similar - at the start of the game, there are 30 different ways that the plot CAN proceed, but with enough prodding from the sidelines (Rachel?  Hazama?  Noel???) and subtle shifts in possibility, they eventually get Ragna to not screw up and jump into the time loop cauldron.  They pick the strand of possibility that they want from lots of options, pretty much, roughly similar to Doul.

The parallel with the other game is far more direct - it's basically a variant of Doul's power mixed with specific future sight - but spoilers.  You know the game if you've played it and if you haven't then I can't really say, because it's the final plot twist in the game.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on May 01, 2013, 09:39:45 PM
In which case I believe I played it quite recently! So yeah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 04, 2013, 02:16:02 PM
Furies of Cauledron: About 75% of the way through. Not sure what to think of it yet. I will say that Fidelias is a highly effective villain. Bernard's spiel about him in the jail cell was dead on.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on May 24, 2013, 07:50:54 AM
The Handmaid's Tale - Not sure how much awareness this novel has outside Canada, here it's one of our big novels and I'd never read it, so sure. Anyway it's quite good. Very, very reminiscent of 1984; it is a chilling portrayal of a near-future dystopia except with a different focus on sex and gender which is good stuff. Grefter you should read this if you haven't. I don't have many more specific comments on characters or writing; I don't think the book quite succeeds as making you feel its world as 1984 but on the other hand it's a sight more realistic and still highly highly relevant as I'm pretty sure this is the dream society of some hardcore social conservatives. Squick.


Maus - Graphic novel about the holocaust with the key races drawn as anthropomorphised animals. I actually owned this years ago but I couldn't get into it because I found the animal gimmick a bit offputting (Nazis = cats also hits a bit of a sore spot for me!), and to be perfectly honest, I still do a bit, not really sold on the artistic value of the decision. That said otherwise it is extremely effective. I'm not a big fan of the graphic novel format in general but this is a story that makes, at points, extremely good use of the imagery when describing one of the great horrors of the 20th century through the eyes of a survivor. Beyond that, I dunno, it's just a well-told tale.


Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix -
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince -
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Y'know I'll just talk about these three as a group, although there are some major differences. Spoilers for the whole series in the spoiler text; only really big stuff though so if you are super-spoiler allergic don't read at all.


Order of the Phoenix is the best of the three (best of the seven?) overall most likely. The Ministry in general and Dolores Umbridge in particular are just so baaaad in this book, it's great. Also I loved Voldemort using his shared consciousness to manipulate Harry, that was wonderful. Kinda saw it coming but it's still a good plot twist since it's nice to see our golden boy be horribly wrong about things now and then! The climactic battle itself is kinda weak but that's my only really strong complaint about the book.

Half-Blood Prince... mm. So now the shit has really hit the fan. This book is a fair deal of endgame setup but it has some good stuff in isolation. I liked Slughorn well enough, this is his book and he is pretty good, I think he does a pretty good job of a flawed but ultimately sympathetic character (sad how this is probably the most worthwhile a Slytherin is portrayed in the entire damn series with one possible exception). Both sequences involving the luck potion where actually quite good if for different reasons. The half-blood prince stuff itself feels... I dunno... kinda irrelevant? Like you could strip out the entire plot involving that book (edit: that is, the potions book) and it wouldn't change much; it doesn't even shed that much light on "the prince" him/herself.

Deathly Hallows - Good start, oh god oh god we're screwed. And then... a lot of boring stuff. Interminable camping trips with Ron/Hermione drama and when stuff happens it often seems to happen for little reason (points for actually learning why the doe sequence happens when it does). It's like Rowling said "uh not sure how to segue to the next plot arc here, oh we'll just have Harry say ____ for no reason", as one example. Then stuff starts happening and it's pretty good. Then spoiler time for the rest.
So I got to the bit where Voldemort kills Snape and I wanted to throw the book across the room. Snape always threatened to be the series' best character but in book 6 we see him being all Death Eatery and then he gets his ironic death courtesy of Voldemort and I just wanted to puke at the waste of it all. And then immediately after that we get the best damn plot twist in the series, I had THOUGHT Snape as death eater had a few too many holes in it but Rowling had actually convinced me she'd changed her mind about the character or something like that. Very deftly done. Prince's Tale is possibly my favourite chapter in the series, so much slides into place and while you can never call Snape a wonderful person (he's a bit too creepy and he is an appalling teacher) he does end up indeed as a pretty great character.
Anyway the last third of the book or so is pretty solid, we get a suitably conclusive showdown. The deathly hallows felt like a bit of a red herring if not a total one, which makes some of the book's middle chapters even more of a waste but otherwise there's a fair bit to like here.

So yeah. Good overall series, has a bunch of nagging plot construction issues here and there but it is certainly a good page-turner and it's very easy to see why it is as popular as it is despite being a bit older than its target audience.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on May 24, 2013, 09:26:47 PM
Snape is the best. (I was always vastly more interested in the teachers than the students.)

The Handmaid's Tale - Not sure how much awareness this novel has outside Canada, here it's one of our big novels and I'd never read it, so sure. Anyway it's quite good. Very, very reminiscent of 1984; it is a chilling portrayal of a near-future dystopia except with a different focus on sex and gender which is good stuff. Grefter you should read this if you haven't. I don't have many more specific comments on characters or writing; I don't think the book quite succeeds as making you feel its world as 1984 but on the other hand it's a sight more realistic and still highly highly relevant as I'm pretty sure this is the dream society of some hardcore social conservatives. Squick.

Yes. I brought this as a suggestion for a local book club I was briefly part of, mostly because it's an excellent book, but in part to share my amazement/disgust that wow there are actually people who would like something like this to be reality. That is terrifying and we shouldn't forget it. (They went for the ghost story instead.) Atwood has always been very insistent that the book is no ways science fiction (as it has sometimes been classified) as nothing that occurs therein has not genuinely been done to women at some point in history.

Currently working my way through All Clear (second half of Connie Willis' most recent effort, first being Blackout). I'm not all that impressed. We have three time-traveling historians who are stranded in London during the Blitz, right? And they're all pretty sketched-in. It wasn't 'til they all finally found each near the end of the first book that I started getting a feel for personalities or anything. Obviously this is a problem! They just spend too much of their internal monologue thinking oh I'll be back home in no time and trying to puzzle out ways to arrange this or wondering why it hasn't happened yet, but we as the audience can pick up pretty quick that no you guys broke the space-time continuum and you're here for the duration, so it gets redundant pretty fast. Reading about daily life in the Blitz is pretty neat, though? I'm especially intrigued by all the little ways British intelligence misled the Nazis throughout the war. Some of this stuff I knew about (battalions of fake tanks and the like to inflate Allied troop numbers in the eyes of aerial recon), other stuff I didn't (public, large-scale fraudulence in mainstream U.K. newspapers to convince the Nazis their bombs were missing their targets and recalibrate them so that they actually would). It makes me want to go find a history book specifically about the intelligence war.

So, nice as a historical document, not so much as a narrative. One of the protagonists just got hit by a bicycle-mounted Alan Turing though. I guess that's a thing.

Doomsday Book:  Didn't click with me.  Nothing wrong with the writing; I just never felt interested in it.  May have been the setting.  I found the future segments with the Pandemic particularly boring.  Also ends damned abruptly.  I'd like a teensy bit of wrap-up at the end.

Future segments are probably a valid complaint. I didn't mind them, but I can see why someone would. They're really there for contrast though. In the mid-14th century, disease wiped out the majority of Europe. Nowadays a few dozen people die of the same thing and it's an epidemic.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 24, 2013, 10:24:39 PM
Not a book but do recommend Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy if you like that kind of Intelligence story.  It is amazingly well done and is compelling as fuck if you dig that kind of story.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on May 24, 2013, 10:37:23 PM
"Not a book but do recommend Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy"

Was that a joke about movie adaptations?
(I only saw the movie)
(It was pretty great)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on May 24, 2013, 10:50:15 PM
Picked up the first volume of Locke & Key since it's on sale at Comixology for three bucks. It's pretty great.

(Also Kieron Gillen's Journey Into Mystery, but of course that's awesome)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 24, 2013, 11:32:06 PM
Legit recommendation of the movie because I can vouch for it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on May 24, 2013, 11:36:16 PM
Legit recommendation of the movie because I can vouch for it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 25, 2013, 02:01:28 AM

Currently working my way through All Clear (second half of Connie Willis' most recent effort, first being Blackout). I'm not all that impressed. We have three time-traveling historians who are stranded in London during the Blitz, right? And they're all pretty sketched-in. It wasn't 'til they all finally found each near the end of the first book that I started getting a feel for personalities or anything. Obviously this is a problem! They just spend too much of their internal monologue thinking oh I'll be back home in no time and trying to puzzle out ways to arrange this or wondering why it hasn't happened yet, but we as the audience can pick up pretty quick that no you guys broke the space-time continuum and you're here for the duration, so it gets redundant pretty fast. Reading about daily life in the Blitz is pretty neat, though? I'm especially intrigued by all the little ways British intelligence misled the Nazis throughout the war. Some of this stuff I knew about (battalions of fake tanks and the like to inflate Allied troop numbers in the eyes of aerial recon), other stuff I didn't (public, large-scale fraudulence in mainstream U.K. newspapers to convince the Nazis their bombs were missing their targets and recalibrate them so that they actually would). It makes me want to go find a history book specifically about the intelligence war.

So, nice as a historical document, not so much as a narrative. One of the protagonists just got hit by a bicycle-mounted Alan Turing though. I guess that's a thing.

Saw Connie Willis last Thursday, and someone asked her how she did her research. She said that for something like Blackout/All Clear, "research" was 50 years of fascination with the topic, and some key moments spent getting the details right. The trick was not so much to make the background 100% accurate, but to make the characters accurate. I haven't read this particular pair of novels yet, but I hope to, even with your review. I suspect approach has a lot to do with whether you like the books are not.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on May 25, 2013, 06:10:18 AM
Judging by the forward of the book, hanging out with cool old people also contributed significantly to the detailed recreation of wartime London.

It's not bad, just not...as good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on May 26, 2013, 01:22:09 AM
For Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, watch the BBC miniseries.  It has Obi Wan Kenobi in it.  And it is very, very good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 28, 2013, 12:13:56 AM
Dresden files:  I bought the books for Mom to read for Mother's day. It gave me the chance to reread through things as well. I am about halfway through White Night.

Handful of thoughts on the reread:

1. I really, really like Lash.  The series does the 'Harry gets tempted with dark power' bit pretty often, and she strikes a much better balance than Harry the mad rapist of Cold Days or his quiet struggle against dark powers in the early books. It helps that his flirtation with darkness also includes Michael, who is a pretty cool version of the Paladin character.

2. Butcher seeded the stuff with Nemesis pretty early on- by book 3, I think. I'm not sure what to think of that overarching story and agree with Shale's criticisms there, but hey. I do have faith in Butcher to produce a coherent enough story.

3. Piss or get off the fucking pot re: Murphy. My god, he's been hinting at her being a Knight of the Cross since book six.  I like the character but she's been spinning her wheels for so long in the series that I'm ready to start calling her Perrin. And I'm not even touching the relationship stuff with Harry. 

4. John Marcone needs to be in the books more often, but he doesn't really work as an enemy of Harry's and hasn't since like book 2. I'm expecting him to be a fairly major player in Skin Days, which is cool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 29, 2013, 07:36:07 PM
Finished my WoT re-read last night. I do think I benefited from having read them again close to one another, while knowing how it ends.

For the most part, I really enjoyed it. There is undeniably a slog right around book 8 where it gets unbearable and I had no qualms whatsoever with skipping entire sections. I pretty consistently skipped Ituralde's stuff, actually, and I feel like I didn't miss a thing.

The last three books are pretty definitively Sanderson. The final book is so Sanderson I'm a little worried it corrupted the vision Jordan had. From speaking to Sanderson and Harriet, though, I'm skeptical that Jordan had put together a comprehensive enough ending to shape how it would be written. Then again, it also just might be that Sanderson already was a writer so close to what Jordan was getting at that the transition was going to be as smooth as could be. Either way, I definitely saw echos of Mistborn in A Memory of Light.

* I am still dissatisfied with the ending. I am always dissatisfied with the endings of long series. It comes from being so invested in these characters, and makes it so that the resolution of the plot does not feel like a final resolution. I want to know how the characters live their lives after something like this! If the alternative to the ending is something like what happened in Harry Potter, well, I'd prefer this ending. Still. I hope that we get to see more stories about the world, like the one that's coming out in the anthology later this year.

* Perfect dialog can be so very distracting sometimes (usually manifests as quippy exchanges), but I forgive it in the case of my hands-down favorite character, Mat.

* The difference cell phones would have made in this world is utterly astounding. Thanks to the complex interweaving of "fate" and "happenstance," however, I think that even with cell phones the story would have managed to be complicated and somewhat unpredictable. This is a good thing! The bad thing is the number of times I caught myself thinking, "Ugh, why don't you just ask" or something similar.

* It is very obvious Jordan was heavily invested in yin-yang symbolism. Male vs female, positive vs negative, one weave vs its opposite -- he was really interested in perfect binaries. It's heavy-handed in the beginning, where the women are always complaining about how nonsensical the men are, and vice versa, but it smooths out toward the end. Mostly I think this has to do with character development. As the characters develop relationships, their own personalities, and preferences, they have to move past generalizations.

I think I've mentioned this before, but it took me an alarmingly long time to recognize that this was a King Arthur story. I like what Jordan did with it. I like that he's a horse person. Even though I hate reading battles, I like that he had a thing for military tactics and history. I liked the interactions of nations, and the people who both ran them and simply worked for them. I liked the balance it struck.

So, it's a long series. It has a lot of details. You could probably cut out quite a bit and not suffer too much for it. But the grand scope, and the long-term planning that comes to fruition by the end, are part of what make Wheel of Time so successful.

I think I'll take another year or two before I tackle re-reading it again.

--

I got my copy of To Say Nothing of the Dog. Judging by how much I enjoyed Doomsday Book, and how delightful Willis was in person, I'm looking forward to the read.

I also got my copy of digital extras for Scalzi's The Human Division (that serial release in the Old Man's War series I talked about).

I also randomly decided to read The DaVinci Code again. I am reminded why I hate popular fiction. It's about on part with my distaste of popular music. Nevertheless, I consume both.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 17, 2013, 08:07:57 PM
The Emperor's Soul- Good stuff. It's a novella that does some worldbuilding for Elantris. Good payoff for such a short story. Unlike most of Sanderson's works there isn't a giant twist in the end, just some cat and mouse between Shia and the Emperor's advisers.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on June 18, 2013, 03:37:56 AM
The Rithmatist- Did you know Brandon Sanderson wrote a YA novel?  Would you be surprised to learn that it involves magical geometry?  if you answered no to both these questions, you have about my reaction to the book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 20, 2013, 06:54:29 PM
Ocean at the End of the Lane.

Excite is me.

Also excite: Neil Gaiman signing next week. eeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on June 20, 2013, 07:29:14 PM
I think a couple more meetings and you'll be officially eligible to add Neil Gaiman to your FB friendlist.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Idun on June 27, 2013, 10:55:55 AM
Powered through Snow Crash from where I stopped in my last post. The middle section with the religious history/theory and relation to Sumer and iconography (cake for an art historian) left me out of breath from laughing. I love the book that much. Nothing was boring, because I took the historical (although a bit densely organized with some holes--- ha) as a huge comedic relief section. I think it's best that way. Anyway, will share some of my favorite parts once I return to the States. I also haven't read a book for myself outside of art history in about... 3 years besides trudging through Les Mis in French.

Best character? YT
Best couple? YT/R*
Best character whose potential fell short? Hiro Protagonist
Best boss? Uncle Enzo


Okay. So there are three really bad chapters in the book, and I can forgive NS for this. It wasn't the dump of information in the central text; it was actually the point at which he met up with major players like Ng only to draw crazy conclusive statements by bringing in tons of variables not previously provided. This is no specific biggie, but so should you organize your text where the bulk of central information is in the middle, don't bring in excluded terms or conclusions right before the crescendo. I also found that the chapters written on Hiro Protagonist caught his personality well, but focused a bit too much on his materialism and lack of ambition. You get it once in the first few chapters, it's funny. Then you know what to expect and can pretty much fill in the sentences without relying on the author. This is why YT reigns supreme, not only because she was comedic, yet competent, but because she ran into the most interesting individuals in the text, Kourier occupation notwithstanding. The ending was inexcusably bad, as the whole US gov't involvement remained underdeveloped and NS tied up the text with a piss-poor all-out battle à la boring Quentin Tarantino. What a pretty easy book to read. I checked out that he has a snazzy book on environmentalism and will check that out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Scar on June 27, 2013, 11:09:02 PM
Read some books recently!

My gf got me to read these zombie books entitled Rot and Ruin. They are real easy to read, since they are young adult novels, but they weren't bad. I read the first three books and now the last one hasn't been released yet.

Plus, I just purchased the first 4 game of throne books from Amazon. I finished the third season on HBO and I couldn't wait another year to find out everything.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 28, 2013, 05:10:26 AM
Rot and Ruin? That the ones with the half Japanese brothers? Just read a short story set in that world, it was decent.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 28, 2013, 07:20:44 AM
The Emperor's Soul - Short and decentish. Shai reminds me a bit too much of Sarene from Elantris in her perfect ability to read people but s'alright.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Scar on June 29, 2013, 02:29:26 PM
Rot and Ruin? That the ones with the half Japanese brothers? Just read a short story set in that world, it was decent.

That's the one.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 29, 2013, 09:31:53 PM
I'm gonna separate the comics stuff into its own topic, ya'll.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,6338.0.html
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 01, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I've been rereading the early Vlad Taltos books for my book club. Those things are a lot of fun. Not exactly deep, but Vlad is great.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 03, 2013, 09:39:28 PM
A Memory of Light - About 2/3 finished. Holy shit Grendael, you magnificent bastard. I was definitely suspicious but that is a genuinely fantastic idea.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on July 03, 2013, 09:51:25 PM
That kinda puts the exclamation point on Graendal as the best forsaken.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 04, 2013, 03:33:51 PM
A Memory of Light - Finished! Overall, A bit less happened than I expected in terms of major character deaths. I was actually a bit disappointed; I feel like more of the 'main' characters dying would emphasize more how brutal the Last Battle was. As is, I feel like that impact was understated which I am uncomfortable with. I think the first half of the book is dreadfully slow aside from Pevara/Androl POVs, which seem to abruptly end about 3/8th? in. I do not like Rand's early chapters at all; suffers from Rand being a pretty boring character at this stage. Later stuff for him is pretty good; showdown with the Dark One!

I am amused by Demandred screaming for Lews Therin when he's not all that nearby.

Gawyn, you are a complete and utter moron. It ultimately turned out okay but holy shit what a fucking stupid thing to do.

Slayer vs. Perrin rivalry is irredeemably bad pretty much. Mercifully underrepresented in the last book.

Egwene is a badass motherfucker. As is Grendael.

Moiraine is comically pointless.

Favs are Egwene/Pevara/Androl/Elayne/Fortuona in this book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Clear Tranquil on July 08, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
So apparently Hobb is working on new Fitz and Fool stuff.

Depending on how that works out it might stop my heart being ripped out every time I read certain spoilery stuff from before. On the other hand could be in for another emotional rollercoaster with salt poured on the wounds ... maybe expecting the worst might be best. Well best not to expect happy endings just for the sake of happy endings I guess, if there is a happy ending hopefully it will be done in a way that's well done, and not just a happy ending because that's what fans want, and it depends on what her muse (Fool) tells her. Ok well maybe there can be no happy ending for them but geez, hopefully they will get to spend good times together again for a while or something

Did anyone else know this (news)?~



Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 09, 2013, 05:00:18 PM
That kinda puts the exclamation point on Forsaken Seifer as the best forsaken.
*nodnod*

I've just about finished up the Magister series of books from CS Friedman.  She isn't the best fantasy author I've read, but she does some things very well. Her characters and magic system are very engrossing, adn she does a good job in making almost every character a shade of grey. It's a very good read, even if I find her prose to be a little stilted at points.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 09, 2013, 05:50:59 PM
*beats Super with a shoe*
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on July 09, 2013, 08:10:45 PM
Up to Teckla (the third book) in the Taltos reread. Now that I'm reading these from the perspective of not being 14 years old, it's interesting to see how he develops Vlad and Cawti's marriage over this initial arc. There's quite a few hiccups in how their relationship is portrayed in the first two books that initially seem like sloppy writing, but either he turns them around adeptly or it was All Part Of The Plan to set up their breakup later on.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on July 09, 2013, 08:53:13 PM
I've just about finished up the Magister series of books from CS Friedman.  She isn't the best fantasy author I've read, but she does some things very well. Her characters and magic system are very engrossing, adn she does a good job in making almost every character a shade of grey. It's a very good read, even if I find her prose to be a little stilted at points.

This is a very good description of Friedman in general. She puts a great deal of thought into how her worlds work and it shows. Prose is usually a bit stiff but I like her a lot anyway because worldbuildan'. Coldfire trilogy definitely recommended if you liked this, I'm inclined to call it better but I read it back in college and am really due to take another look now that it's not 2002 and I am moderately less stupid. Most of her standalone books are good--In Conquest Born, The Madness Season (shapeshifter psychology!) I enjoyed a lot. This Alien Shore, well, take the qualified plaudits above and apply them to a story with a MPD protagonist. It's fun stuff. The Wilding is the only one that stands out to me as being pretty middling.

I wish the actual writing was more fluid, but she pretty much always has great ideas to work with at the least.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on August 06, 2013, 09:43:12 PM
Consider the Lobster by David Foster Wallace was great. Whenever one of the essays started dragging on too much describing a situation, there was a very enlightening and brilliant footnote waiting.
I got Infinite Jest but don't feel ready to tackle that 1000 pages monster. Dunno if I ever will.

Machine of Death / This is how you die are also sometimes enlightening, which might be the best thing I can say about a book really. The second, more recent one is better. Machine of Death suffers from everybody explaining the situation over and over, plus a few weaker stories so far. Yahtzee's is one of the worst. I liked his adventure games, but litterature is obviously not his thing.

Kafka's Trial is not very kafkaesque. Well, it is kafkaesque, but the main protagonist is insufferable and doesn't seem to actually ever seriously try to get out of his bind.
After the first two chapters this feels more like a road movie, the main character going from one absurd situation to another and meeting new characters. It's not very interesting. I've tried to find meaning other than the "bureaucracy is complicated, guys" angle (that doesn't really work as I've said, if it was intended) but couldn't. Dropping the book halfway through.

I'm reading Dostoyevsky's "Notes from the Undergound" and liking it well enough. Hard to believe this is 150 years old.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 06, 2013, 09:56:35 PM
I can never remember what books I've talked about here. Oh well.

-

Picked up The Long Earth, the collaborative novel from SF mastermind Stephen Baxter and everybody's favorite fantasy author, Terry Pratchett. I wasn't really sure what to expect, but in retrospect it's all there in the author pairing: it's a fantasy novel that weaves in the harder sci fi elements.

Unlike Good Omens, this collaboration is notable for the backseat Terry Pratchett takes in its construction. This is very much a Baxter world, and a Baxter story. One of the main 'characters' is decidedly Pratchett, don't get me wrong, but the overarching story -- of a sudden shift in technology which allows humans to 'step' into adjacent alternate versions of Earth, and the practical consequences thereof -- is definitely Baxter.

I enjoyed it. The quirks of British humor add some levity to a very critical exploration of humankind's reaction to sudden infinity. The main characters are primarily optimists, or realists who enjoy solitude, but the characters against which they have to act -- the human ones, anyway -- are undeniably flawed in the kind of way that we like to pretend doesn't really exist. Take, for example, the political movement that comes out of this to protect the people who innately cannot 'step'; I won't spoil their reaction, but I think you won't be surprised to find it's a very angry, very small-minded and very militant movement.

I liked it enough that I decided to pick up The Long War, its direct sequel, released earlier this year. A follow-up to the events from The Long Earth, but this time trying a little harder to keep the thread of 'Datum Earth' (which is what they call the Earth you and I live on, still the reference against which all other Earths are measured) the central point. I think you can guess from the title what its primary concern is.

If you like harder SF, but still enjoy reading things that don't need to be explained in equations, I think you'd enjoy this one. Just don't go into it expecting Discworld.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 07, 2013, 01:21:02 AM
I've just about finished up the Magister series of books from CS Friedman.  She isn't the best fantasy author I've read, but she does some things very well. Her characters and magic system are very engrossing, adn she does a good job in making almost every character a shade of grey. It's a very good read, even if I find her prose to be a little stilted at points.

This is a very good description of Friedman in general. She puts a great deal of thought into how her worlds work and it shows. Prose is usually a bit stiff but I like her a lot anyway because worldbuildan'. Coldfire trilogy definitely recommended if you liked this, I'm inclined to call it better but I read it back in college and am really due to take another look now that it's not 2002 and I am moderately less stupid. Most of her standalone books are good--In Conquest Born, The Madness Season (shapeshifter psychology!) I enjoyed a lot. This Alien Shore, well, take the qualified plaudits above and apply them to a story with a MPD protagonist. It's fun stuff. The Wilding is the only one that stands out to me as being pretty middling.

I wish the actual writing was more fluid, but she pretty much always has great ideas to work with at the least.

Coldfire Trilogy is a notably slower/more laborious read than the Magister Trilogy. The polish on the Magister Trilogy is just so much higher overall (Coldfire is also weird in how books 1 and 2 have such similar basic construction- The two main characters  travel across mysterious lands with a child and a somewhat maternal 4th figure while mentally sparring over similar items). Both are good though, but Magister is the one I'd recommend first!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on August 25, 2013, 09:24:01 PM
The Mortal Instruments:  Been reading these before I see the movie.  Finished the first three books.  The writing is good overall, a little trope-y, but not offensively so.  My only real complaint is the forced pop culture references.  I cringed when Clary was describing what "chibi" meant.

Also, Magnus Bane is FABULOUS.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on August 26, 2013, 03:17:56 PM
Neuromancer: After trying to get through this a few times over the last decade, I finally buckled down and just blew through it in a morning. You can definitely tell that it was written in a hurry (I believe the phrase Gibson used was "blind panic"), and there are a few scenes that are almost certainly there to paper over plot holes, but at the same time the setting is so hugely influential that it's worth reading just to see where everything else cyberpunk came from. And elements of the ending show up in a surprising number of places too (Inception, for instance).  Worth the time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 26, 2013, 06:36:04 PM
Fire & Hemlock, by Diana Wynne Jones

Good book, a fantasy mystery (mystery in the sense that the main character is engaged in trying to figure out what is going on and why) that carefully unfolds in surprising directions, suffering from a confusing ending.  Which is to say it fits squarely in the Wynne Jones oeuvre.

I adore her writing, but this is not one of her stronger books.  I recommend Archer's Goon, and Dark Lord of Derkholm.  The former is about a mild-mannered kid in his quest to rid his living room of a brick wall of a thug who is extorting his dad.  The latter is about a wizard's attempts to free his world from the yoke of the inter-dimensional tourism industry.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on August 29, 2013, 06:35:56 PM
Infinite Jest is almost impossible to read if english isn't your mother tongue. Worth it though. Reading something enormous you only half understand is a weirdly exhilarating experience, understanding what the fuck is going on being its own reward. Action/Dialogue = Easy (Mostly). Descriptions = Hard. Continuity = I'm expecting no one get this at first anyway.
I'm one fourth (not including footnotes) through the book and that's like 3 whole books already.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 29, 2013, 07:02:19 PM
Fire & Hemlock, by Diana Wynne Jones

Good book, a fantasy mystery (mystery in the sense that the main character is engaged in trying to figure out what is going on and why) that carefully unfolds in surprising directions, suffering from a confusing ending.  Which is to say it fits squarely in the Wynne Jones oeuvre.

I adore her writing, but this is not one of her stronger books.  I recommend Archer's Goon, and Dark Lord of Derkholm.  The former is about a mild-mannered kid in his quest to rid his living room of a brick wall of a thug who is extorting his dad.  The latter is about a wizard's attempts to free his world from the yoke of the inter-dimensional tourism industry.

I love that book. One of my first favorites.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 30, 2013, 04:21:12 AM
:)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 30, 2013, 06:03:56 PM
Assassin's Quest - Weird ass book. Weaker than the other two by a lot, too much Fitz on his own being a dumbass and generally lower quality character work. A peculiar end to the series.

Starting Storm Front next, at the peer pressure of Excal.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 30, 2013, 09:20:51 PM
Fire & Hemlock, by Diana Wynne Jones

Good book, a fantasy mystery (mystery in the sense that the main character is engaged in trying to figure out what is going on and why) that carefully unfolds in surprising directions, suffering from a confusing ending.  Which is to say it fits squarely in the Wynne Jones oeuvre.

I adore her writing, but this is not one of her stronger books.  I recommend Archer's Goon, and Dark Lord of Derkholm.  The former is about a mild-mannered kid in his quest to rid his living room of a brick wall of a thug who is extorting his dad.  The latter is about a wizard's attempts to free his world from the yoke of the inter-dimensional tourism industry.

I love that book. One of my first favorites.

Haven't read that, but I've been sneaking chapters of The Tough Guide to Fantasyland in between history books and it is heartily recommended for people who have read too much epic fantasy (which is to say the DL). It is basically the Grand List of Console Roleplaying Game Cliches except, you know, for books.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 30, 2013, 10:23:55 PM
Haven't read that, but I've been sneaking chapters of The Tough Guide to Fantasyland in between history books and it is heartily recommended for people who have read too much epic fantasy (which is to say the DL). It is basically the Grand List of Console Roleplaying Game Cliches except, you know, for books.

And Dark Lord of Derkholm is, I believe, explicitly set in it (or if not, a world heavily cribbed from it).  So yeah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 03, 2013, 05:55:11 PM
I've read the first three chapters of Storm Front. Ugh... not sure if I can continue.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 03, 2013, 07:33:38 PM
Read A Handmaid's Tale because it is a 'classic' and I am reviewing those things so I can do well on the Lit GRE.

I remember wanting to read this book ages ago, but never getting around to it. See, I was always into medieval/renaissance stuff. And this was called Handmaid's Tale! Obviously I should read it.

In retrospect, I am soooo glad I got distracted. While it was a great book, I would have been traumatized to read it in 7th grade. 7th grade is when I started reading Pern. Not sure I could've handled post-apocalyptic rape scenarios.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on September 03, 2013, 08:29:01 PM
I've read the first three chapters of Storm Front. Ugh... not sure if I can continue.

...white supremacist lit?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on September 03, 2013, 09:28:26 PM
I thought that was a Billy Joel album. Guys what are we talking about.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on September 03, 2013, 09:32:25 PM
Ciatos is talking about the first Harry Dresden book by Jim Butcher.

You don't want to know about what Jim is talking about.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on September 05, 2013, 12:36:05 AM
You don't want to know about what Jim is talking about.

Same shit, different day.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on September 05, 2013, 12:37:47 AM
I've read the first three chapters of Storm Front. Ugh... not sure if I can continue.

...white supremacist lit?

Orgies fueled my drug empire.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 09, 2013, 02:40:52 PM
Escape from Camp 14- The story and life of someone who grew up and escaped one of North Korea's concentration camps.  Shin Dong-hyuk's story is especially notable because he is the only person born into one of those camps who escape. It is an incredibly moving book that shows the depth of the evil of the North Korean regime, and I recommend it to everyone to read (In spite of it being very heavy going).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on October 01, 2013, 03:43:41 PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/09/30

oh hey they did a comic about me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on October 01, 2013, 06:20:00 PM
Speaking of!

I read Steelheart yesterday.

Imagine Mistborn in modern America, only this time there are "superheros" who really aren't all that super. Cue post-apocalyptic rebel cell.

But really, it's Mistborn with tech.

Weirdly, it felt a lot less quippy and "clever" than several of Sanderson's other works, but I was plenty okay with that. I'm kind of getting tired of characters rebounding bon mots between themselves all the time. In fact, the main character is Deliberately Flawed! Yeah, it comes across pretty clunky, but it's cute.

I won't say this is even close to Sanderson's best work, but it was enjoyable enough that I'll likely pick up the sequel when he gets around to writing it.

I'm most eagerly awaiting Stormlight Archives #2.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 02, 2013, 12:14:39 AM
Dear Penny Arcade guys: stop creating reasons for me not to respect you, you're already buried in them.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 02, 2013, 03:18:28 AM
I'm kind of getting tired of characters rebounding bon mots between themselves all the time.

Never read Steven Erikson (well, for that among other reasons, but especially that). That has to describe nearly 50% of character interactions.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on October 19, 2013, 11:09:07 PM
To be or not to be (The Choose your own adventure by Ryan North) is totes hilarious. The whole killing Polonius early on part was hysterical.
Also I'm near the end of Infinite jest.
Those two are now like my two favourite books and I've just read both while having never even read proper regular Hamlet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 25, 2013, 10:55:17 AM
The Years (Virginia Woolf) - This is pretty much where I feel most at home when I'm reading. It's somewhat challenging reading a book in a language not my own, but the stylistics and architecture are worth the read alone. It's a delight reading a book not about a plotline or a character set, but sensations, perceptions and things untold.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on December 20, 2013, 03:48:28 AM
Feast of Souls- Good little fantasy book, had a hard time putting it down once I got into it. It's a book which is more about intriguing concepts than it is necessarily about the execution. The magic system's core ideas are really interesting in particular, and some good things were done with it, though I was left wanting a bit more (the stated reason for there being few/no female magisters is a bit hard to swallow) and can think of several issues related to it which the book surprisingly didn't tackle, though it could come up in the sequels. In general I enjoyed Kamala(/Ethanus) chapters a lot (they tie in most strongly with the morality of the magic system, plus I love "tangled ball of rage and emotion" characters), enjoyed the Colivar and Andovan chapters quite a bit, and was a bit lukewarm on the Gwynofar ones though they had their moments; they mostly suffer from Kostas being a shockingly dull (and obvious) villain after a good first scene. Otherwise most of the key characters were quite grey which is nice.

One minor complaint is that while the story is mostly written in third-person limited, it sometimes slips into omniscient with little warning and the scenes where it happens feel confusing as a result, and I'm not sure how much this is intended.

Totally random minor note but I was amused that after several characters describe him offscreen as a useless, arrogant, fop of a prince, Rurick ends up being kinda badass.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 20, 2013, 04:00:44 AM
Glad to see more people reading the series. Did Super kick you into it?

Out of curiosity, what are the items that you expected to come up which you think might come up in sequels (I won't spoil you, but I'm just interested to hear your thoughts. This is certainly one series that I wish had a lot more overall material).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on December 20, 2013, 05:29:22 AM
The book was a Christmas present from Ciato; she mentioned it was based off both your and Super's recommendation, so.

Hmm, well, the biggest thing that I felt the book could have touched on but didn't is that magisters can use their powers to do a lot of good. What is a consort or two measured against the ability to erradicate a plague or stop a war? One life for dozens, hundreds? I was pretty surprised this angle wasn't really gone into; it seemed like almost all the magisters, even the relatively "nice" ones like Ethanus, consider themselves to be jerks; none seemed to realise that they had the power to make the world a better place.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 20, 2013, 05:37:04 AM
It is a tough life in the coal face of murder Elf.  Really eats away at your self esteem.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 12, 2014, 05:54:06 AM
Supervolcano book 3: Oh god. Turtledove trying to write slice of life. There is some fascinating concepts and bits of story, but it was buried under a pile of awful writing and boring characters. I  can't call this full lazy turtledove because he does a fascinating job examining some of the breakdown of society, but god. The Vanessa character is bad bordering on offensive (spoilers: after literally fucking and sucking in a refugee camp  for internet access instead of asking her father for help, she spends the next book being bitter and getting swindled. Uh.)  This book would've been far better if it had spent more time focusing on the world and less of Turtledove attempting to write characters.

E: Good grief there is so much to pick at this book. For a novel that sells itself on being an end of the world book, it doesn't do much actual focusing on the end of the world. FFS, there's a two page section or so devoted to Colin's family cat attacking balloons and generally being a cat.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 13, 2014, 04:45:24 AM
Read The Rithmatist (Sanderson) this week.

I know it's a juvenile novel, but it ... was not one of his best. There were some really awkward passages. Sanderson seems to be suffering from Famous Author syndrome, which is what happens when one becomes best-selling and his editor backs off to let his genius flow.

Nothing really happened and I never got a sense of high stakes. I mean, the whole concept is the chosen people can animate chalk drawings. Yes, some of those chalk drawings can actually attack people, but... how serious can you be while you're scribbling on the ground with chalk?

If you've read other Sanderson works, you will definitely recognize him in this one. The way he treats religion, the way his main character is nothing special except that he works hard to become special, the way the bad guy is (SEMI-SPOILER) the "last guy you'd expect" (/SEMI-SPOILER), the way there's a whole religion set up around these magic powers...

I'd give it a 6/10. Borrow it, don't buy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 06, 2014, 09:08:06 PM
Read a couple of John Green books to see what all the fuss was about. Looking for Alaska and Paper Towns. Had I read these in high school I would have been deeply impressed. As a working stiff approaching 30, however, they really sounded like crazy teen over-exaggerations and "deep moments." I can see why they've been popular, but I'm not sure I'm on the hype train. 7/10.

Reading Words of Radiance, #2 from Sanderson's Stormlight Archives. It is a MASSIVE book, but I'm hooked. I love the world and I don't mind the obviously Sandersonian characters. I've stayed up until 3am the past two nights because I just want to keep reading it. I will probably finish it by this weekend, all the while cursing that I'm not still a college student with the ability to sit down for 8 hours doing nothing but reading for fun.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 06, 2014, 09:22:37 PM
I also have Words of Radiance, I finally got into it in earnest on the train today, and it's been damn good so far. I'm just past the first big spoiler, which I really should have seen coming, in hindsight.

Signing in a couple weeks, too! That should be fun.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 07, 2014, 01:36:44 AM
Better than the first one, then? I can't say I've been that inspired to pick up the second.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 10, 2014, 06:48:35 AM
I have no comparative rating. I just enjoy these kinds of books. I liked this one!

Managed to miss signing in San Francisco due to flying suddenly to Seattle... only to have just enough time to make his afternoon signing in Seattle before flying back down. Win~
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 10, 2014, 07:27:15 AM
I have no comparative rating. I just enjoy these kinds of books. I liked this one!

What are you doing on my internet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 10, 2014, 06:59:47 PM
Well, I'm a self-avowed female, so I'm pretty sure I'm just a figment of the internet's imagination anyway.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 10, 2014, 07:02:53 PM
Female nerds don't exist, you must be a man.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 10, 2014, 07:11:30 PM
Not quite done Words of Radiance yet, but I'm far enough along to be pretty certain that if you didn't like the first book much, there's no need to check out the second. It's a lot of moving pieces around in preparation for the Epic Fantasy Stuff that Way of Kings promised, and development of characters you've already met, but there's not much new. The most interesting addition to the world is the chapters told from a Parshendi viewpoint, and those are only in the interludes for some reason.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 10, 2014, 07:28:40 PM
Female nerds don't exist, you must be a man.

See? I've been told I don't exist all over the place.

--

He had a great explanation for the layout of his books at the reading. Basically, he wanted to tell Dalinar's story. Then he realized he wanted to tell the story of quite a few other people all struggling for/against the same target. Then he realized one of the best ways to break the story up -- and since it's 400,000 freaking words it kinda does need to be broken up -- by offering glimpses of that same struggle from the sides by way of looking into the non-main characters' worlds. Each of the books, and each of the books' titles, is based off of the story that becomes central: in the case of the first, Kaladin, and in the second, Shallan. You can tell whose "story" it is by the flashbacks, and the book titles are a book from the in-world universe that, generally, has some significant meaning to the character who receives the focus for the book.

Anyway, he said he realized what made him, as a reader, want to keep reading through all of the story and really look forward to the next installment in a single POV were those brief breaks from the main storyline. It breaks the intensity up, allows the anticipation to build, and brings you right back to where you left off, refreshed. The interludes are important, but they are supplementary.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 10, 2014, 07:44:56 PM
That does make sense; my main gripe is that one of the big strengths of Way of Kings was its worldbuilding, and Words doesn't expand on that much - it takes place directly after WoK, in the same city (well, camp), with the same main cast. The only big addition to the setting is that we finally get to see how the parshmen work, so I wish he'd spent more time fleshing them out (especially since it's still another side of Dalinar's story, unlike say Lift, who would be an out-of-nowhere addition to the main narrative).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 10, 2014, 07:45:37 PM
Not quite done Words of Radiance yet, but I'm far enough along to be pretty certain that if you didn't like the first book much, there's no need to check out the second. It's a lot of moving pieces around in preparation for the Epic Fantasy Stuff that Way of Kings promised, and development of characters you've already met, but there's not much new. The most interesting addition to the world is the chapters told from a Parshendi viewpoint, and those are only in the interludes for some reason.

Well, I was more wondering if I should buy the book in hardback or not. I like the first book well enough, but not enough to buy a similar sequel in the clunky ass form I don't like. :p

If you told me there was, say, more Dalinar, that would be like the Ciato siren song.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 10, 2014, 08:02:11 PM
There is! You don't spend as much time in his head, but every viewpoint character that isn't Dalinar (or an Interlude person) has him as a major supporting player. You can definitely see what LD was talking about with him being the glue that holds the cast together.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 11, 2014, 05:38:48 AM
Started a bilingual book club a few months ago to get myself reading more and for language practice, so I've been reading some stuff not my usual bag.

Watership Down: This book is good. I was not expecting much since it's ostensibly a children's book about rabbits, but there is a lot of great character work, and a lot of parallels drawn between this band of rabbits and a lot of greek mythology. I enjoyed the El-alrairah mythology sections a lot more than I suspected. I really appreciated how the book made these rabbits... well, sentient, but still with a rabbit-like intelligence (re: they dum), instead of the kind of talking animals you tend to get in Disney films. On top of that, these dipshit rabbits have a pretty rich mythology with them at the center of the universe, drawing a parallel between them and humanity's place in the universe. Thoroughly an enjoyable read.

That said, it is misogynist as hell. Only one female character who makes any decisions to speak of, and the Bechdel test spontaneously combusted as it got close to the novel. Interestingly, according to the book on rabbit behaviour that Adams used as a basis for how the rabbits acted, indicated that when rabbits leave to make a new warren (re: the entire plot of the first half of the book), it is usually dissatisfied female rabbits who leave to start the new home, not males, and the author just kinda went “Well whatever I'm going to have male rabbits do that instead.”  Great. Still, my only real complaint with the book.


1Q84: Have been reading this on and off for the past year or so. Not finished, keep getting distracted (CIIIIIIV), but in the last third of the book he introduces a whole new PoV, and I only have a couple pages left but I have no idea how he will resolve all the lingering plot threads in such a small space. From what I hear from people who have finished the book, I should not expect much in that regard.

I enjoy Murakami quite a bit, but after reading more than one of his books it's pretty clear he is pretty formulaic. Fish out of water dude does something extraordinary, his destiny gets entangled with another point of view character's, weird shit happens. That said, I enjoyed the amount of work put into developing Aomame's and Kengo's relationship, despite the fact that neither of them come face to face until the very end of the novel (well OK there's a bunch of weird Murakami shit that happens but that barely counts). I'm less in love with Murakami than I was after, say, Kafka on the Shore (my first foray into his work), but he's still enjoyable.

Slaughterhouse 5: Re-read this for the book club. I wonder how much of my affection for this book stems from nostalgia, but whatever I still think it's good. Blah blah blah Vonnegut Vonnegut Vonnegut read it.

Three Cups of Tea: Not gonna lie, I only drafted up this post so I could complain about organize my thoughts on this book. It is this month's book club discussion book, and Jesus H. Tittyfucking Christ is it tedious. For those of you who haven't heard of the book, it is billed as a book about a man who started building schools in poor Muslim villages in Pakistan in the mid-nineties. And it delivers on that, kind of. This is where the good points are, for sure. The parts that go into detail about the villages' customs and way of life, and the multiparagraph interludes about the history of the region are pretty enjoyable.

That's about all I have good to say about the novel, though. The bad... it is just so disgustingly self serving. It is a memoir co-written by the man himself, Greg Mortenson, and some reporter who probably did most of the writing. When I refer to the author, I'll refer to the reporter, but Mortenson I'll call out by name.  The parts about Mortenson's family are just so gross, heaping praise upon praise onto his parents, painting them out to be Christlike saints, and there is frequent boasting about Mortenson's skill with languages, his personality, and, best of all, his humility. He has flaws, sure, but they're stupid things like always being late.

On top of that, the tone, pacing, and... subject matter of the book is borderline schitzophrenic, and I'm pretty sure this stems from many cynical decisions made by the author. First off, it is a young adult book. With that in mind, what interests me about the book (the history and culture of these regions in Pakistan) for better or worse won't actually interest the average 15 year old being made to read this for English class.

That I can accept. However, the way in which the author tries to reach the kids is just terrible. There is a lot of over dramatization of certain events, and a lot of focus and false tension given to things that doesn't work on anyone who is thinking even a little bit about the book at all. For instance, the first two chapters of the book are about him almost dying while climbing a mountain in Pakistan, which... just falls flat, because of course he lives (even if it wasn't nonfiction it's the first two chapters of the novel, come on), and it has nothing to do with the rest of the story from then on. Several chapters later, he getting kidnapped by the early actors in the Taliban in the region bordering Pakistan and Afghanistan, and while it was interesting to read about on its own, a lot of melodrama surrounded the narration. “Will he die? Will he ever get out alive? Will he ever see his wife and child again?” OF COURSE HE FUCKING WILL, HE CO-WROTE THE GODDAMN BOOK.  The book tries to make it out to be some serial adventure novella but it just doesn't work because fucking logic. I can't find any reason for this nonsense except that it is supposed to be there to draw the interest of the teenage boys in the audience. But it comes off as exceptionally dumb, and there's more than a hint of the author talking down to his audience.

Similarly, there are many segments devoted to Mortenson's love life. In the first 8 chapters, while going back and forth from Pakistan 3 or 4 times, Mortenson starts dating this woman while in the US, gets dumped, acts melodramatic over it while back in Pakistan, and then is over it by the next time he returns to the US, and then we never see the woman again. A good 20 pages is probably devoted to this interlude, and it ends up never mattering! On top of it being trite, melodramatic and poorly written!

I spent too long wracking my brain on why they would include these bits. Is it there to contrast with when he meets his wife later on? Possibly, but honestly the book isn't well written enough for me to buy that forethought was given to that dynamic (besides, both women barely feature in as anything further than the object of Mortenson's affections). Is Mortenson just that much of a narcissist? Given the way the book talked about his family, that certainly plays a part into this. Then I realized, concurrently with the revelation of why so many sections of the book play up the dangerous situations he finds himself in, that it must be in there as a cynically thrown hook to engage the teenage girl part of the audience. And then I was disgusted, in part because of the cynicism that inevitably lies behind the decision, but also in part because it is shit like that that drove the book to the top of the NYT Best Sellers list.

Anyway, the book makes several decisions to alternately suck Mortenson's prostate and reach as wide an audience as possible that turn the memoir into a tonally, narratively, and organizationally chaotic mess. I frankly look forward to reading Three Cups of Deceit (http://www.amazon.com/Three-Cups-Deceit-Mortenson-Humanitarian-ebook/dp/B004XHVOW4) afterward, the book that was written in response to the fabrications and outright lies the book is apparently filled with. If you had any inclination of picking the book up before, do yourself a favor and go read a history book on Pakistan instead. It will be simultaneously more enjoyable and more rewarding.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 11, 2014, 06:43:34 AM
Three Cups of Tea
Bitter much?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 11, 2014, 08:40:32 AM
Three Cups of Tea
Bitter much?

Damn straight.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 11, 2014, 09:26:09 AM
Good.  A bitter tea is the best tea.  Smokey, black, strong like your heart/penis should be.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on March 11, 2014, 05:14:39 PM
Bitter tea means you overbrewed it.  Not that a Marmite-eater would know the difference.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on March 12, 2014, 04:42:04 AM
Finished Words of Radiance! I may do a longer writeup/review later, but for now I'll just note that the technical term for Szeth's last scene would be OH SHIT, SON.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on March 26, 2014, 06:01:29 AM
The Hunger Games & Catching Fire - Got badgered into reading the first book, was hooked. Second book was good as well. The author definitely has some skill in ending chapters in a way that compels you to keep reading. I definitely enjoyed the books way more than my snobbery feels like I should be allowed to. There's plenty of things I can point to that are wrong with the books, like President Snow's literally smelling of blood on his breath and only just figuratively eating babies, or Katniss being a very frustrating point of view character a lot of the time, but for the most part they hit enough right that I give them a pass.

Mockingjay - This on the other hand gets more wrong than it gets right, and unfortunately by the time you realize that you may as well just finish the book. Way too much melodrama, the scale of the novel becomes far too large for the fast pacing, and the ending is horribly unsatisfying. It's almost enough to make me not recommend Catching Fire, because that book ends on such a bad cliffhanger that you basically need to slog through Mockingjay afterwards. Still, it had me coming back chapter after chapter, which is more than I can say for a lot of other series that I've given up on in the middle of (oh hi there Ring of Time or Wheel of Clocks or whatever).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 30, 2014, 12:20:03 AM
Dreamwalker- CS Friedman's latest. It's definitely a YA book, both in content and length. It's much darker than the usual YA book but not a patch on the magister series in that regard. Still, the world bulding's very awesome (I am a sucker for mirror multiplied/mirror world setups) and Jessie is quite fun as a MC. Definitely more of a book to get in softcover or from the library, the length doesn't justify the cost.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on April 12, 2014, 09:46:32 AM
The Hunger Games- Sopko totally nailed this one; it reads like a story meant to become a movie.

having looked at some spoilers for the other books, what I really noticed during the book was the emphasis on how horrifically fucked up all the characters are by things.  I'll want to read those and see if the tone carries through, but I'm getting the sense that the series is basically about PTSD, and the rest is just to sell the movie as it were.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on April 14, 2014, 11:48:46 PM
Words of Radiance:  Most enjoyable.

"Honor is dead.  But I'll see what I can do."  Bad ass.  Sanderson continues to write books that are designed to be action movies, and I am perfectly okay with this.

Prediction for the third book:  The Cremlings are somehow related to the Odium.  Just because Sanderson mentions them every five minutes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on April 15, 2014, 12:51:19 AM
Catching Fire: main motif?  Bed-wettingly horrible nightmares every night.  Yup.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on April 21, 2014, 07:59:34 PM
Mockingjay- Note for those building apocalypse shelters: copies of Machiavelli's The Prince are vital.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 28, 2014, 04:40:13 AM
Skin game: Done.  Fun caper book, I like it more than 13 and 14. Spoilers in text.

There are several major twists in the book, a lot of which have been building since Winter Night.

1. Mab and Marcone's payback on Nicodemus. Nicodemus pissed on Mab's accords and kidnapped Marcone, so you knew he was going to be in a world of shit whenever he appeared in the books again.
2. Lashiel coming back and the birth of the parasite. The parasite ended up not being Lash, but rather her spiritual daughter with Harry.
3. Harry finally facing Maggie and to a lesser extent Michael.
4. Harry and Murphy finally commit to a relationship. Murphy had been a clubbed used by baddies since like the start, and even Lara commented in book 9 that he should've long since slept with her.
5.  The birth of another Knight of the Cross.
6. In general, this was a book with nothing but returning faces. There were only two new characters, both of whom had twist identies. I really liked the used of Anna Valmont here.



This is the first book where I called almost every single major plot twist. The only reason I got the one with Grey is that Butcher outright said a Naagloshii would be in the book in an interview. That was brilliantly done otherwise, it's hinted at heavily but it doesn't click considering what a negative impression the first one made in Turn Coat.

This book was mostly about addressing lingering plot threads and issues caused by the fallout of changes.  It ignored the Outsider/BC stuff, which was for the better. Thomas also doesn't appear in the book, which doesn't bother me too much. He had a major role in the last, and Michael got some camera time. I love that Harry both finally *talks* to Michael and we get a throwback to Grave Peril with Michael (briefly) back in the saddle. In general this book has a ton of fun scenes. It ranks up there with Dead Beat for me in terms of enjoyment.


Best scenes: These are not in order. I'm picking five that really jump out at me.

1. Harry's conversation with Hades. This is where you really get clued in to the extent to which Nicodemus is completely and utterly fucked.
2. Dierdre's conversation with Harry about relationships.
3. Grey's final scene. Excellent surprise twist, best in the book for that.
4.  The rebirth of a Paladin. it makes you realize just how powerful Michael was. Even Grey was more than a little scared of him.
5. Both of Harry's conversations with Michael are tied here. The first for the good character work (Poor Molly), the last for Michael making a point Harry keeps missing- Mab is going to do something very bad when she figures out that he isn't ever going to bend to the winter mantle.


Big, big unresolved issues going into the next book:

1. The wizards in general. The appearence of a random warlock in this book is a pointed reminder that the WC hasn't been a serious player in the novels since 11. They've kind of faded in importance as other threats emerge, but still.

2. Molly. Hi, ticking time bomb. Michael may well punch out Harry for that one, and with good reason.

3. Marcone. This is going to come to a head sooner rather than later, and this book pushed the issue pretty hard.


Issues with the book:


1. Expostion by god characters. Soppy noted this in an IM and I've got to agree with it. Butcher has really relied on this since powerful characters really started appearing in the books. He pretty much admits that he started the book with the concept of Bob and worked from there. He has an overarching plot and characters, but he doesn't really care so much about how he gets there, more about the big/cool scenes. It's a very different apparoach than the one Robert Jordan used.

2. The winter mantle. This ties into some of my issues with the first point, but Harry being able to more or less function without the winter mantle after Cold Days/etc made the point of him being a cripple without it is pretty inconsistent. I know Harry did a bunch of DBZ style training between books but whoof.

wtf:

1. Waldo Butters, Batman Jedi Knight of the Cross. Jesus fucking christ.


Other random bits I liked: The character work with Jordan and explaining the other Squires. Nice touch and fits in with Michael's explaination of redemption.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on May 28, 2014, 04:48:23 AM
Done? Jesus, it only hit my doorstop this morning at 9am.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on May 28, 2014, 05:14:46 AM
It's a tad shorter than Ghost Story and Cold Days. Still good though. Mostly in agreement with Super but certain aspects of it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 28, 2014, 01:42:52 PM
I'm a fast reader and downed the book in one sitting. Dresden file books are pretty light reads to start with, and this one was more compelling than most.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on May 28, 2014, 04:12:22 PM
Oh shit I forgot it was coming out. It's like a surprise Christmas!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 28, 2014, 05:59:18 PM
Oh. Slight spoiler, but the next book apparently is about the White Council.  That is past due.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 01, 2014, 11:40:07 PM
Finished Skin Game on Friday. It was definitely a Dresden Files book! Good ride like they always are, but I feel like this one was a step backward for Butcher. I'm of two minds about that: it may be that the previous book was more serious than he wanted it to be and so he returned to the "true feeling" of a Dresden Files book. It may be that he just missed what he was aiming for.

Don't get me wrong, there were some strong character development moments. They were just fewer in number. This whole book felt like it suffered from trilogy book 2 syndrome (which is ridiculous given how far into the series this is): it was taking threads from the previous story and setting up for the next without really finding its own ground.

Let's see how the next one goes!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on June 02, 2014, 02:38:36 AM
Given how focused the previous couple works have been for developing the metaplot of the Outsiders, I would say of course taking the focus off that for once is going to be jarring. Going back to sort-of normal for the series even moreso since the last books also were a lot about what's changed since Harry died/came back. The pattern for the series has always sort of been musical chairs of the subplots, so the Denarians had to come up again sooner or later.

I would agree with Super though that it's a lot more predictable this time around, which I think may account for what you're feeling more than anything, Ash. I wouldn't say there were less character developing moments (if so, it was definitely quality over quantity in this one), but we're usually kept on our toes with everything else, so seeing something a little more conventional is a little offputting.

I'm more disappointed about the seeming backslide of Laschiel. I get it that what was inside Harry's head was just an image of her and not really her, but apparently she gets all the memories Harry had with Lash but was not affected Lash's change of heart at all? Seems one-sided and/or forced to include her participation. Not handled very well to spoil that just to seemingly get rid of her forever (again). Was expecting Lash to be the Parasite, but Harry going all Zeus -> Athena was hilarious and very fitting given the Greek theme.

Still. Jedi Batman KotC Butters. Good times.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 02, 2014, 04:33:08 PM
Skin Game was about wrapping up several long term arcs (Lash, Murphy, the sword of faith). I think the next book will feel the same way. It's going to finally address the WC and some of the bad apples there, along with Molly 's relationship with her parents.  After that there is Mirror Mirror (harry goes to an alternate universe) and threeish more before the big finale. At this point, the series needs to be closing story arcs and finishing characters rather than opening new ones. Dresden still has to fully deal with the White Court (I fully expect Thomas to end up in power) which eats up another book.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on June 14, 2014, 12:28:14 AM
I should probably note that since the last time I posted I read the rest of the Magister series (was pretty good, could be even better if some things in the setting/magic system were further explored, would love to read more in this world), and Erikson's Gardens of the Moon (imperial PoV stuff was very solid with a caveat or two, thief guild PoVs bored me to tears). Never bothered posting.

Words of Radiance - It was good! Better than the first overall, which owes almost entirely to Kaladin being better, I think. Not only does he actually grapple with some more interesting moral decisions than the simple ones he faced as a bridgeman in the previous book, but he's around far more interesting characters - that is, the other major characters. I came out of the book still failing to give a damn about any of his men except Moash, but eh whatever. Shallan and Dalinar stuff remains excellent, Shallan kinda steals the show this time in particular.

I'm a bit less fond of the last ~150 pages compared to the rest which is hardly unusual from Sanderson and hey it's not like the book jumps off a cliff or anything (hi Warbreaker) so I'm not going to complain too much. Still it's distinctly not a problem the first book suffered from so that's a step down. Not a step down: never having to go 150+ pages without seeing Dalinar or Shallan.

This month's instance of ripping off super... favourite characters:
1. Shallan. Obvious pick really. I really enjoyed her backstory interludes and she has her hand in several interesting plotlines this time around: learning to exhibit self-confidence, infiltrating the Ghostbloods, infiltrating the nobility. Her magic powers are simple but cool.
2. Dalinar. Still pretty much the Ned Stark of the series (thank goodness he's not dead yet! I was definitely worried), the veteran perspective in these novels is a welcome one.
3. Kaladin. As mentioned, interacting with other characters I like is a big boon to him. I liked his plotline with the Elhokar assassins although I felt Sanderson was a bit too unambiguous with what he thought the moral was. I also liked that he seemed more able to make mistakes this time.
4. Jasnah. Too awesome to live. ooorrrr not! I kept expecting her to come back at any time for a while and had finally moved past the denial stage by the end of the book. Haha. Anyway Jasnah steals scenes like nobody's business while she's around, same as in the first book. We also get to see a darker side of her, as an assassin's patron. Bit of a contrast with some other characters...
5. Mm. Tempted to go with Eshonai, because the Parshendi viewpoint is something I had been long awaiting and provides some important fleshing out for the world. Could also go for Adolin, who gets some pretty good stuff but I just don't find him too compelling. Yet. I kinda wonder if he's being set up as a villain, since there's no sign he's a Radiant and his final action in the book is... questionable. At the very least he's being set up as an interesting foil to Kaladin.

Scenes:

1. Shallan strangles her father. We knew the horrible story had to come to some sort of head like this, but watching her make the rational choice to murder him, choking off his life as she sings him a lullabye, is kinda haunting.
2. The "duel" against the four shardbearers. Not so much for the action, which I am always rather "whatever" too, but because the book had me wanting to scream "THIS ISN'T FAIR FUCK YOU SADEAS YOU CHEATING CHEATING BASTARD". Just a strong sequence emotionally, from the moment the shit hits the fan to the moment Kaladin ruins things by challenging Amaram.
3. The sequence in the chasms with Kaladin and Shallan. Not only are the two the Sandersonist when they get together and snark at each other, but there was some good action and character work here too. Plus finally a chasmfiend gets to inspire the terror they were always supposed to.
4. At the Ghostblood hideout. High tension here as Shallan deftly plays her lying game to try to learn more about Jasnah's murderers.
5. Dalinar dresses down Kaladin after (2) above. As someone who finds Kaladin occasionally frustrating, this scene is somewhat cathartic. I also like seeing Dalinar play his father figure role well, and he definitely does it with Kaladin here, saying what needs to be said while still offering a helping hand.


None of the above scenes are from the interludes, but I will close by mentioning I liked them more in this book than the past. Part of that is that Parshendi screentime was badly needed, part of that is that several (Lift's, for instance) where snappily written and engaging even if they were about minor characters. There are still a few which just feel woefully unconnected and things I won't appreciate for several more books, but that's fine.

Also, the reveal at the end that Lopen is a Radiant? Couldn't have chosen a duller character.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on June 20, 2014, 11:16:12 PM
Re: the reveal at the end, current theory seems to be that Lopen is a "squire," which would mean he gets general Stormlight powers but no specific Surge and continues to act as one of Kaladin's sidekicks. Which would be fine with me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on July 03, 2014, 11:29:52 PM
Crime And Punishment: The only pre-XXth century book I'd call actually entertaining (which might be a dirty word but I don't care)
The main character (extremely rude and proud, but with a strong and warped moral fiber) commits a crime, and unlike in every other piece of fiction you've read, he goes on to sabotage himself and puts himself at risk of getting discovered all the time. The guy slowly loses it, but is treated in a very humane way.
The book is very sincere and Russian. It's not boring like Tolstoï

Remembering the name of every character is impossible. It's Persona 2 all over again except with Russian names instead of Japanese. Some characters even have nicknames that have nothing to do with their actual name! The main character is named "Rodion Romanovitch Raskolnikov" and he's not even the worst one about it.

It's like hey there are two characters, Tatsuya Suou and Tatsuya Sudou, and the first one is either called Tatsuya or Sudou or Tat-sama or Baka, and the second one is called Tatsuya or Suou or Tatsu-san or Jenkins.



Glamorama (Still reading):
Every Bret Easton Ellis novel seems like the same thing (Flat tone + Brands everywhere + dark humour + vain, egocentric, morally bankrupt, either young or trying to be young, and extremely sexy characters + no real emotional connections between any of these characters) , with a twist:

- Less than Zero: It's the first book, there's no twist. Maybe the complete aimlessness.
- Rules of Attractions: Haven't read yet but I think there are multiple PoV?
- American Psycho: Murders
- The Informers: Collection of short essays instead of a book
- Lunar Park: Fake autobiography, actually turns sincere instead of staying detached
- Imperial Bedroom(s): Sequel to the first book 20 years later, with only fourty-fiftyish people
- Glamorama: Slowly turns into a thriller

Anyway I'm loving seeing one of BEE's main characters (maybe the biggest tool out of all of his characters yet, and that's saying something) in a thriller story. He just doesn't fit at all.
It feels strangely like the Big Lebowski in that way.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 03, 2014, 11:34:11 PM
Read the wheel of time, Fenrir! Though IIRC the French translations were kind of spotty.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 03, 2014, 11:37:21 PM
He just finished posting about enjoying Dostoevsky and you tell him to read WoT?

There is still Brothers Karamazov and The Idiot to enjoy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on July 04, 2014, 12:04:36 AM
I don't want anything too long right now, and I also don't like fantasy elements that much anymore, so I'll stick with Fiodor...

I'm taking a break from Dostoevsky right now (His books won't have as much of an impact if I read them in a row) but I definitely plan on having read his four big books in one year?
Does it really get better than Crime and Punishment though? That was intense.

I'll probably try Pynchon or DeLillo next.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on July 04, 2014, 03:02:12 AM
Old and not boring? Hunchback of Notre Dame. Or The Count of Monte Cristo if you're feeling a bit campy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on July 04, 2014, 03:52:35 AM
I'm taking a break from Dostoevsky right now (His books won't have as much of an impact if I read them in a row) but I definitely plan on having read his four big books in one year?
Does it really get better than Crime and Punishment though? That was intense.

Notes From The Underground is downright gorgeous and quite different from Crime and Punishment (and I honestly prefer Notes). It's also much shorter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 04, 2014, 06:25:19 AM
I would go with a recommendation of Candide for great, short and old.  Bonus points as IIRC it was originally published in French rather than Latin to ensure a broader audience.  Voltaire pretty great.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on July 04, 2014, 01:25:21 PM
I already read Notes last summer, it was weird and great. Maybe not the best introduction to Dostoevsky

My teacher made us all read and dissect Candide when I was like 12 and I fucking hated it. No desire to revisit it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 04, 2014, 01:44:42 PM
The three musketeers was fun but I'm pretty sure you've read that.

Quote
He just finished posting about enjoying Dostoevsky and you tell him to read WoT?

There is still Brothers Karamazov and The Idiot to enjoy.

I can't stand reading anything along those lines, it's boring as shit. The entire point of reading for fun is to enjoy it. On that note, eat a dick Fitzgerald, you are the absolute worst and the Great Gatsby is a pile of shit that rivals Xenosaga.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on July 04, 2014, 01:49:33 PM
Remembering the name of every character is impossible. It's Persona 2 all over again except with Russian names instead of Japanese. Some characters even have nicknames that have nothing to do with their actual name! The main character is named "Rodion Romanovitch Raskolnikov" and he's not even the worst one about it.

This was my problem with Doctor Zhivago (one of those rare cases where I vastly prefer the movie to the book), except that had the additional bad habit of expecting you to remember who these random one-off ciphers were two hundred pages after their unremarkable first appearance. Crime and Punishment at least focused on a fairly compact central cast (and be awesome), from memory at least. I so couldn't immediately follow it up with more Dostoesvky, though. That is some of the densest writing I've encountered (English translation, at least).

Fenrir man I dunno about you but I would've been way too much of a dufus at 12 to appreciate Candide if I'd actually read it then.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on July 04, 2014, 04:49:26 PM
Quote
"The three musketeers was fun but I'm pretty sure you've read that."
Yep

Quote
"Fenrir man I dunno about you but I would've been way too much of a dufus at 12 to appreciate Candide if I'd actually read it then."

Oh yeah definitely. I probably didn't get anything about it.
And I got somewhat lucky I had to read a story with things happening in it, instead of like Madame Bovary.

Reading the same passages over and over and finding every figure of speech still killed the book for me and I don't particularly want to see it again.
Also I already know the ending. Candide really likes vegetables.


Quote
"This was my problem with Doctor Zhivago (one of those rare cases where I vastly prefer the movie to the book), except that had the additional bad habit of expecting you to remember who these random one-off ciphers were two hundred pages after their unremarkable first appearance. Crime and Punishment at least focused on a fairly compact central cast (and be awesome), from memory at least. I so couldn't immediately follow it up with more Dostoesvky, though. That is some of the densest writing I've encountered (English translation, at least)."

Crime and Punishment still had a prety big main cast, the important characters are
- Main character
- Mother
- Sister
- BFF
- Love interest
- Love interest's father
- Love interest's mother
- Future brother in law
- Pedophile
- Hercule Poirot
+ Some secondary characters you should remember, like killed woman, killed woman's killed sister, those three dudes with names that start with Z I couldn't tell from each other (I think there's Zazimov, Zametov, and another one), Pedophile's dead wife, Love interest's brothers and sisters, future brother in law's friend, the painters.

Thankfully Fiodor keeps things relatively simple at the beginning, he's (at least there) not one of those authors that throws a big party at the beginning with 150 characters and you have no idea which one is important and you should remember.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: The Duck on July 04, 2014, 05:36:36 PM
If you enjoyed Notes and Crimes and Punishment, then I don't think you'll get any writer fatigue from reading Brothers Karamazov, which I really like. I read them all in succession for a class in college and it was great. If you're afraid of that, then I would go to DeLillo's White Noise.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 04, 2014, 07:16:22 PM
DeLilo's White Noise is great stuff, but there've been a lot of similar stories in books and TV since and sometimes I've known people to come out of it going "That was good but it feels like I've read it before."

I don't get the overstated Gatsby hate people seem to have. I agree it's not good, but it's a fairly breezy, quick read and easily forgettable. There are much, much worse books about terrible people being terrible that sear themselves into your soul much worse (Wuthering Heights anyone?). Does being forced to write a report on Gatsby for English in High School really turn that many people off to it?

As far as classics go, been meaning to start up The Gilded Age forever. Had it for a while and Mark Twain is pretty rad, so don't know whats been stopping me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on July 06, 2014, 03:08:47 PM
Extremely relevant and deep discussion from Glamorama :
(I'm curious to know if the wrong Koopa is intentional, but probably yes)


    "Shhh, I'm playing," I tell her. "Yoshi's eaten four gold coins and he's trying to find the fifth. I need to concentrate."

    "Oh my god, who gives a shit," Alison sighs. "We're dealing with a fat midget who rides a dinosaur and saves his girlfriend from a pissed-off gorilla? Victor, get serious."

    "It's not his girlfriend. It's Princess Toadstool. And it's not a gorilla," I stress. "It's Lemmy Koopa of the evil Koopa clan. And baby, as usual, you're missing the point."

    "Please enlighten me."

    "The whole point of Super Mario Bros. is that it mirrors life."

    "I'm following." She checks her nails. "God knows why."

    "Kill or be killed."

    "Uh-huh."

    "Time is running out."

    "Gotcha."

    "And in the end, baby, you ... are ... alone."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on July 06, 2014, 03:28:37 PM
You're only alone because your princess is in the next castle.

The glass is half-full, you tool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 07, 2014, 02:25:00 AM
Enjoy your castle full of dead bodies.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 08, 2014, 03:45:07 AM
The Fairy Godmother - Woot, finally finished my first full iPad game. Good book, very whimsical and didn't take itself too seriously. I enjoyed the silly adapted fairy tales as magic aspect.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 15, 2014, 08:38:19 PM
The name of the wind: About 600 pages into this. Rothfuss is a gifted writer but this book has problems. Denna needs to seriously stop with the wandering in and out of the story, that shit got old 200 pages ago.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on July 16, 2014, 03:05:09 AM
And yet, you know that she will be doing the exact same damn thing for the next 1400 pages (at least! I'm sure that it will be more). And I don't think you've even got to the truly egregious part of her wandering in and out.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 16, 2014, 08:16:40 PM
Finished the Name of the Wind.  The concept of the book is very  cool (Examining a hero's life from his perspective and how his legends started, along with the price he pays) but I've got issues with it. There's the aforementioned issue with Denna and Ambrose being an absolute void of worth. Kvothe has a strong streak of Fitzchivarly level decision making. This is a bad thing. On the flip side, dude's literally good at everything he does. He varies between godmodding and being an utter fuckup with zero room in between. Author seems to have a Hobb level fascination with shitting on the main character as well. The book also ends with no real climax as well.

There's other things to pick at. I did enjoy reading the book a fair bit once I got into it, and  the concept's cool. I want to read the second one before making a decision on this.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on July 21, 2014, 09:01:44 PM
Divergent/Insurgent/Allegiant:  I enjoyed them.  They were very similar to the Hunger Games, except HG had a strong first book and weak sequels, while this was the other way around.  Story got much better as it went along.  The only thing I didn't like was the split POV in the third book.  Split POVs work when you're writing in third person.  But when you're writing in first person it's very confusing to switch back and forth because everyone just says "I".  I kept mistaking which character was narrating which chapter.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on July 21, 2014, 11:24:46 PM
Glamorama: This went to weird places later on. I can't really recommend it to anyone but peole who want their plot to become Drakengard / Lynch.

Brothers Kazamov: Sure is weird to see Fiodor as a narrator basically write from time to time "Oh yeah this character? FUCK this guy, seriously"
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on July 21, 2014, 11:32:45 PM
Interestingly, I also just read Divergent/Insurgent/Allegiant.

Entertaining; I liked them better than Hunger Games because there was more ... depth? ... to the conflict underlying the action in the story. No more a deep, existential novel than Hunger Games was, but at least the characters felt more like they were doing something and actually struggled with the choices they made.

Teen romance drama is eyeroll, but it is a YA series so I get it.

--

Read Eggers' "The Circle," too. It was overly inflated but it did a good job helping you stick with the narrator and subtly keep you aware of how bizarre things are without forcing you at odds with the narrator before it makes sense. As a marketer in the digital space, it was especially compelling because it is the manifestation of every slippery slope argument ever made about the things I do.

A cheeky take on near-future dystopia. If you like that kind of thing, I recommend it! Similar-ish to 1984 and Brave New World without the overt allegories.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 22, 2014, 07:30:48 PM
A Wise Man's Fear - Page 367 Kvothe describes how he lost everything he owned for th millionth time and specifically the item that prevents him from coming under opposing magic attacks.

FUCKING TABLE FLIP IS ONLY REASONABLE RESPONSE.

I enjoy the book but god fucking dammit I would like to go just 100 pages without Kvothe going broke.  I almost think Patrick Rothfuss is a Marxist with his obsession with Kvothe's financial situation and the way it shapes his entire life.

Quoting this for goddamn truth. Rothfuss must've been super poor at some point because jesus christ Rothfuss.


I'm about 75% through A wise man's fear.  (http://i.imgur.com/zJrMW5f.gif?) to the entire Fairie section. I like this book a great deal more than the name of the wind (Features 90% less shitting on Kvothe) but man. Kvothe taming the power of the wild fairie sex queen with his penis was so bad. *so* bad.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on July 22, 2014, 10:50:15 PM
Hang on, because depending on where you are in the book, there potentially 3-4 more women for him to still sleep with!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on July 22, 2014, 11:21:31 PM
Again, this is classic elements of fantasy hero stuff here (See Conan, John Carter of Mars and the like). 

Y'all just hating on his Batman Sex Training.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 23, 2014, 01:50:52 AM
A wise man's fear- This book started out much better. The unviersity characters started clicking, it changed things up a little from the constant shitting on Kvothe, and hey Rothfuss fleshes out Devi and Sim a little!

About a third of the way through the book Kvothe takes a break and travels to a faraway land to find a patron. The entire arc is pretty good and flies by at a good clip. Then we get to the bandit section. That's slightly less good and drags on for far too long, but I can forgive that because hey, going back to Seavern-

Then we get the Fairie section. It's bad. The section with the oracle is fantastic conceptually, but everything else is awful and totally without redeeming value. This goes on for far too goddamn long. Eventually he's spit back out with manwhore powers fully ready. Merciful gods, now back to the main storyline- oh wait, you say? Kvothe is going to spend like 200 pages training with the noble savages? Oh christ. Content aside, these sections go on for too long.

Things get better with the second group of bandits and returning to Kvothe's would be patron, and the wrapup of Kvothe's story at the end of day 2 is good too, if obviously cut off to create a (false) happy ending. I read the book pretty quickly. Rothfuss is a compelling writer when he isn't making his main character run around literally penniless and brutalized constantly.

Issues with the book, in descending order:

1. The Fae and Adem arcs, lesser honor goes ot the bandit arcs. These should have been compressed down.

2. Kvothe's magic penis. Good lord is this dumb, literally every woman he meets of absolutely any relevance falls head over heels for him in some way or the other. This extends to more than sex though. Kvothe either tends to be perfect at a task or utterly clueless with nothing in between. It dovetails nicely with Rothfuss pissing on him so much that his middle name should be Urinal. 

3. Denna. She wanders in and out too much. Her relationship with Kvothe does not advance at all in particular, they're doing the same song and dance routine they were at the start of book 1.  I have some sympathy for what the character goes through, but she's used in a completely obnoxious and insufferable way. She feels like the woman least relevant to Kvothe's life because she's so rarely in it, and has no real connection (so far, this probably will change) to the Chandre or the major events in his life.

4. The villains. They all suck. From Ambrose to that women Adem who hates Kvothe to Hemme. They have zero depth and personality besides being evil/hating Kvothe. The Chandre also fall into this category so far. The fuck was the head of the Chandre doing as a random bandit? This makes zero sense in the 'let the lord of chaos' rule sort of way.

5. Bast. Fuck off forever, thanks. Character just annoys me.

I wouldn't recommend these books to people. There are too many issues. There is a fascinating overarching plot to be had and some great writing, but you have to dig through a mountain of shit to get to it.  I'm not surprised it's as well received by authors/fans as it is though, Rothfuss is really talented at writing in a way I haven't seen since probably RJ. If you combine his ability to make great prose with say CS Friedman's ability to write characters/worldbuild/structure things, whoof. You'd be onto something.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on July 23, 2014, 02:11:47 AM
I'm not surprised it's as well received by authors/fans as it is though, Rothfuss is really talented at writing in a way I haven't seen since probably RJ. If you combine his ability to make great prose with say CS Friedman's ability to write characters/worldbuild/structure things, whoof. You'd be onto something.

The problem is not that he isn't CS Friedman level at that, the problem is that he's basically near bottom of the barrel for that (honestly...I'm trying to come up with a fantasy series I've read lately with this bad a plot. Barring things that I will flat out not read because the little I read of them was utter trash (Brooks/Shannara, Modesitt), Rothfuss is near dead last of characters/story (especially story, which is honestly nearly non-existant so far).

And you know that there's probably at least another 2 major dumps that Rothfuss will be taking on Kvothe guaranteed (something regarding Denna, and something regarding political station IIRC based on something mentioned in the first book. I suppose the second one could be at the resolution of book 2, but I could have sworn that Kvothe at some point will become some high ranked military swordsmen. Oh right, he also loses the ability to really use magic, so we'll make that 3 big dumps).

That said, I thought the university stuff was actually worse than the last book. But blissfully it ended. Honestly, that mess of a plan to take down Ambrose took an eighth of a second to backfire as anyone could have predicated; it was really just another Ambrose/Kvothe section where Kvothe makes super boneheaded decisions. Adem arc was actually my favorite section of the book because it actually showed the Rothfuss could write at least a semi non-typical culture and...honestly, by this point, everyone else in the book was either irrelevant or annoying, so ditching them all for 200 pages was welcome. I guess that's the core problem with the book. 2,000 pages in and the only interesting characters aren't even in the main story at this point. But as noted, I really don't care overall for these boks.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 23, 2014, 02:37:12 AM
There's a basic framework of a very compelling story in those books, they're just lost in pages of rambling about the university. That all said, Rothfuss is a *really* talented writer. His books are super easy to read and he has an excellent grasp on how to make the mundane worth reading.

Major dumps on Kvothe still left that we know about:

1. Expelled from University
2. Denna's death
3. Losing most of his powers
4. Causing a gigantic war/possibly civil war due to killing the King which led him into hiding

E: To elaborate, I'm highly frustrated by these books. Rothfuss is an exceptionally talented writer! And then you get to the Fae section and want to punch him in the nose. Or any time Denna interacts with Kvothe.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 29, 2014, 02:23:45 PM
Empress by Karen Miller - Finally finished this book. It's a very strange book, the main character is an unabashedly terrible person and it seems fully possible that all of the main characters in the book worship a dark god but I'm not sure. Second book looks like it has a different primary character, from reading the back of the book? I'm interested to see how it pans out but not interested enough to read the second one immediately. Working on C.S. Friedman's Feast of Souls now.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 14, 2014, 07:00:25 PM
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell

Read the first 120 pages.  Will not be reading the rest.  I like the prose, but nothing happens, and I have been reliably informed that nothing ever will.  Susanna Clarke displays an immense talent for writing stupid characters then ripping them to shreds, but...things need to happen!  Plots need to tweest!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 14, 2014, 07:04:05 PM
Not only do things not happen, the things that happen don't matter, and I swear nothing changed for the characters, either. Then it just... ends. It feels like there's no resolution.

I suspect it got so much critical success because it was so goddamned long everyone zoned out while reading it and assumed the lack of ending showed great literary prowess and they wanted to feel smart.

--

Read the Wool Omnibus. Nothing too special or new -- post-apocalyptic society where the people didn't realize they were an experiment (spoilers! but it won't change anything for you -- but I enjoy it. It's on the simple side, but watching characters navigate through the knowing and not knowing is a good read. The opening chapters are kind of amazingly emotional so be prepared for that.

Also re-read Game of Thrones (just book 1 so far). I forgot how much egregious violence and sex there was, which is really special when you consider what the HBO show is doing with the material.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on August 16, 2014, 03:01:32 PM
Strange & Norrell is very, very English, in ways both good and bad. Plus it's like eight hundred pages of worldbuilding for fifty pages of payoff. I liked it, but mainly for the atmosphere and how much of a complete dick Norrell is.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on August 16, 2014, 05:16:02 PM
The Englishness of it, the focus on gentlemen and society and doing things The Right Way and all...would be more palatable if high society were not 99% populated by petty idiots.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 17, 2014, 12:19:39 AM
Accompanied parental units today in clearing out late grandfather's apartment. Wasn't interested in taking stuff; just there because family. But because family, wound up with stuff anyway. Relevant to topic at hand, went home with 1864 printing of de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. So that's pretty rad.

(Other highlights: Japanese rubber plant peace lily, lamp constructed from torpedo casing. Or it might have been a mortar shell, I'm not exactly an expert on the subject.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 21, 2014, 10:27:54 PM
Finished Wool.

I'm not going to bother analyzing it because I don't like to English major everything I read. In short: it's a relatively simple sci-fi book with some probably unrealistic premises that I nevertheless found entertaining. I liked the characters, I got frustrated with their choices and what happened to them, and though the ending was a little corny it did very well against the lead up.

--

I'm reading the rest of the Giver Quartet because why not. I opted to try out Kindle Unlimited because I was fast coming up against the limits of my digital library and not looking forward to spending hundreds of dollars on new reading material, plus it's free for 30 days. I'd been meaning to read the other books in the series since I found out there were other books in the series. They're very short reads, anyway, and definitely for the younger YA set.

I don't find them particularly interesting, not the way The Giver was. It all takes place in the same world (and roughly at the same time) and it has a lot of the same conceits. I'm wrapping up book 3 now and will probably be most of the way through 4 tomorrow so I'll reserve judgment until I finish reading.

--

Nerem was complaining about Honorverse after we segued from a discussion on how wrong he was about the unforgivable sins Kingkiller Chronicles has committed against literature. Since the first two books are free even without Kindle Unlimited, I downloaded them and will probably start reading them next week.

--

I have no idea why I am reading so much sci fi lately. I guess I just haven't found another good fantasy series to draw me in yet. Other books on my docket are all sci fi, too, including Scalzi's latest which will be out on Tuesday. I kind of miss my happy escapism and it depresses me to read so much near-future post-apocalyptic narrative. Why can't someone just be goddamned happy that technology is so awesome and deal with the problems that come up in everyday life like, you know, dumb romances? (Are there sci fi romance novels? Hmm...)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on August 21, 2014, 11:23:03 PM
Brothers Karamazov was great. I liked Crime & Punishment more, thanks to Raskolnikov's internal monologue. (and because of Brothers Karamazov's less interesting religious backstory to develop Aliocha for the future books that never came)

Super-omniscient-narrator-bastard spoils everything for some reason. I know we're not supposed to read this for the plot twists but COME ON!
Ivan stole the show.


White Noise next then the Idiot
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 28, 2014, 06:49:39 PM
Words of Radiance: Finished.  I missed a ton of minor stuff (connections to other Sanderson works, I -still- always forget who Hoid is). It was fun. I liked it more than book 1, which is pretty standard in an epic fantasy fare like this. The only issue I have is that I've read enough Sanderson that some of the plot twists were easy enough to figure out ahead of time, but eh. I read it because it's fun, not because I have to be shocked with every turn of the page.

Characters:

1.  Shallah. Lots of good character work for someone I thought wasn't great in book 1. Helps that she tied up a lot of loose ends (Gaz!) and showed us a new part of the world in her chapters.
2.  Kaladin. I like the Bridgemen more than Elfboy (Rock is cool) but they are not super memorable. 
3. Adolin. He could be going in very dark places. Literally every other important person in his life (Brother, father, sorta bertrothed) have become Knights Radiants. He definitely could be left behind and oh hey, Shallah/Kaladin looks like it will be a thing and well what else is left for him? I was surprisingly engrossed by the character though, I do have a weakness for that type.
4. Dalinar. Obvious. He rules, could easily go higher but he was lacking in camera time.
5. Lift. Her PoV was a very definite callback to Vin from Mistborn, in style and substance. It was tons of fun and was the best of the side PoV's we got.

Scenes!

This is harder to pick, as I haven't read some of the earlier chapters in a while.

1. The rigged duel. It has Kaladin and Adolin being awesome and then Kaladin being an exceptional dumbass. Just a lot of fun there.
2. Last scene with Adolin. That was brutal. Also because that should wrap up the drama with the Alenedi princes. That was fun, but I don't want another four books of scheming from Sadaes. As listed above, it also strongly implies that Adolin has a dark path ahead of him.
3. Lift's PoV. It wins.
4. Shallah finds out that Tyr was meant to assassinate Jasnah. Very nice end to book 2. I could nominate a bunch of her scenes (Killing her dad, convincing the deserters to join her, Jasnah's 'death' but this works.
5. Kaladin's duel in the clouds. That scene reminded me of Rand's duel in The Great Hunt with Ishy for a bunch of reasons. It was fun conceptually.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on August 30, 2014, 09:13:56 PM
Worm (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/table-of-contents/)

Worm is a well acclaimed and long (LONG!) running, but now complete, web serial about superheroes.  I finally got around to starting it 3 days ago.  Currently I'm on Arc 19, so about 2/3 through, and after three straight days of reading I am both impressed.... and thoroughly sick of it.

The writing is fine, heavily character focused most of the time, if a little simplistic.  Decent set of characters, especially the protagonist, Taylor/Skitter.  It's very good at changing things up, moving from earlier frames of reference to new and completely different ones while still feeling natural.  Fight scenes are described in more detail than they really need to be, and are about four or five times the length they need to be, but it IS a superhero story so I can forgive some "then the villains moved to THIS position and we shot MORE LASERS" writing porn.

The plot, though, whoof.  So far the progression has been along these lines (minor spoilers for arc directions, though I'll try to avoid specifics):
- New young heroes starting out, vs minor villains and gangs.   Sure, fun and expected.
- Heroes vs villains on the city level.  Also expected, and probably still the highlight of the story with all the interplay involved.
- Heroes and villains together vs an "unstoppable" kaiju-esque monster.  Oddly boring for what it was, but sets up what I assumed would be the second half of the story, with the monsters threatening to destroy the world.
- Minor villains, gangs and anarchy in the monster's wake.  Your leaders are not who they seem to be, whoo-ooo spooky!  Still by the book though.  Providing character development in downtime, or it should have anyway.
- The unstoppable supervillain team full of baby-eating psychopaths arrives in town!  Lots of back and forth and this power beats that power.  The world is threatened with obliteration, again.  Three times during this arc, actually.  These guys are the worst.  This arc is the worst.  Unrelentingly grim to a previously untouched level, the villains are insane and evil for evil's sake, and everybody's hax powers prevent the status quo from being radically altered.  A requisite few characters die, but the reader can predict exactly who with a quick mental count of "how much pagetime did they get?" 
- More politics!  Totally expected betrayals!  Things take another turn for the grimmer and darker!  The world is threatened with destruction, again.  Everything is interrupted constantly with flashbacks and interludes from characters no one cares about.
- Heroes and villains together vs an "unstoppable" kaiju-esque monster, who is also a baby eating psychopath, who is also a former ally with a grudge!  Dark Phoenix nods everywhere!  The world is threatened with destruction, again.  More horrible things happen to our protagonists.  The sheer amount of grim darkness and world destruction convinced me I must be near the end, so I caved and checked the table of contents to see how much was left, because the slogging was getting to me and I figured it had to be near the end.

It's not.  There's still an entire third of the story left.

I... I don't care anymore.  I don't care if the world gets destroyed.  I don't care if Skitter's secret identity gets revealed, or if she gets maimed or lobotomized into an earthworm.  In fact I'm kind of expecting it now, from the title.  I don't care if Bitch or Grue die, or if Legend can stop the evil corporation that's been teased so many times it's all out in the open now. 

I can't even really say the story did anything specifically wrong, it's just drastically overplayed its hand so many times that I've built up an immunity to the emotional impact it's trying to strike with.  Flaws that used to be excusable are coming into higher and higher relief as they get repeated.  The Protectorate is STILL getting on Skitter's case about the Slaughterhouse Nine, with the same accusations that they attracted them or didn't pacify them.  That made sense as an arc point when they did it once, but this is going on what, the tenth time now and nobody's even noticed?  I know the author is trying to hammer a message about victim blaming, but we got that ages ago and it's still repeating ad nauseum. 

Maybe the true message is that I'm supposed to be a bad person for getting tired of it.

I don't know. 

I'll keep reading to see how it turns out, but it's already nearly self-parody and some sort of space alien transcendence ending has been foreshadowed enough to blot out the sun. 


EDIT:  Finished.  The last third caught me off guard and was not nearly as good as the first 2/3s.  Same basic complaints stand.  The story is good on a micro level, but breaks down pretty hard on a macro level.  This could be attributed in no small part to its serial nature.  Still, the first parts and the characters are good enough in their own right.  I really wish this had an editor with a giant axe, and another editor with a rolled up newspaper to swat the author over the head.  It DOES make some good points, it does entertain, just... wears it all out, and keeps running until the wheels fall off.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on September 01, 2014, 08:44:31 AM
Raising Steam: Sort of a weird book. Much more segmented and separated than I'm used to in Discworld books. Character focus is sort of weird too, as it bounces between a lot of POVs. Still, I like the world development.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K. on September 02, 2014, 01:15:35 AM
The Killing Zone by Frederick Downs:  Not the kind of book I usually read but my kid had it for English class and I started thumbing through it.  Account of an officer serving in Vietnam.  Interesting stuff and it's pretty crazy to think how untrained the people we sent off to war were (18 year old medic?  ouch).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 16, 2014, 06:15:08 AM
Finished Feast of Souls finally. Really good book, filled with characters I really enjoyed and an interesting setup. WTF is up with slipping between third person limited and omniscient, though? She mostly seemed to slip into this only in Magister conversations for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on September 16, 2014, 04:37:09 PM
Super's been bugging me to read CS Friedman, and lo and behold the next book in my SF/F book club is The Madness Season by CS Friedman. I liked it okay, but the way it played out was not nearly as appealing to me as the "vampire on a spaceship" high concept. There was so much worldbuilding crammed into a relatively short book that the plot ended up being really rushed. The last third would have been better off as a sequel - it's such a sharp break from the earlier stuff, and it would give everything more room to breathe. Oh well.

Also, Friedman really likes reminding you that the Marra species is called Marra, and they have Marra senses because they are Marra.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 16, 2014, 11:14:15 PM
Oryx and Crake.

I really need to stop reading near-future apolocalyptic stories. The fun part about near future is that it's not too hard to make it feel realistic! If a particular group justifies this, and another tries to make money off it, and society keeps along this path, etc.

Of course, that is also what makes them so horrifying. I could wish that these kinds of books would have an impact a la The Jungle, but no, I think we're too saturated with the entertainment aspect of it thanks to Hollywood (lol, that could never happen) to really take these books at face value. The decline of literature as a form of communication is the real disaster. Where's the reading between the lines? Blackfish comes to mind as an example of this. No one who's being all activist about the documentary seems able to understand that documentaries like that don't make their money by providing a fair and balanced view of the picture. Nor does it seem likely that they've internalized that the whole story might be a metaphor on a greater issue. No, it's "save the poor abused whales! down with Sea World!"

Ugh, jesus, the book is making me so pessimistic.

The basic what-if behind the book: What if corporations turned into segregated, protected groups and a genius-level sociopath found a way to science up a devastating disease and distribute it globally? (Spoilers, probably. I don't know, it's a fairly literary book in that you know what's going to happen, it's the how that makes up the novel.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 25, 2015, 07:17:34 PM
Just finished up the second two books in the C.S. Friedman Magister Trilogy. The second book is definitely the weakest but it does a pretty good job of setting up the third book, which I found pretty excellent. Unravelling all of the mysteries of the story was enjoyable, and I actually ended up liking Coliver quite a bit despite being a little lukewarm to him early. I'm debating what to tackle next.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 29, 2015, 10:35:06 PM
I decided to read Harry Potter, since I've never finished the series. Just finished the first two books. They are about what I remembered -- the first is engaging and fast-paced, and the second tries to emulate that but isn't as successful at it. I stopped reading a few chapters into the third, so I'm mostly going in blind from here.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Fenrir on February 02, 2015, 10:14:51 PM
I started the David Foster Wallaces' unfinished The Pale King and it is Infinite Jest -.
Sometimes I'm just not understanding the point of it all and then it randomly drops this kind of thing:

“The next suitable person you’re in light conversation with, you stop suddenly in the middle of the conversation and look at the person closely and say, “What’s wrong?” You say it in a concerned way. He’ll say, “What do you mean?” You say, “Something’s wrong. I can tell. What is it?” And he’ll look stunned and say, “How did you know?” He doesn’t realize something’s always wrong, with everybody. Often more than one thing. He doesn’t know everybody’s always going around all the time with something wrong and believing they’re exerting great willpower and control to keep other people, for whom they think nothing’s ever wrong, from seeing it.”
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 27, 2015, 06:40:32 AM
Read Angela Davis's 100-page essay Are Prisons Obsolete?. It's an interesting essay with lots of well-reasoned facts, but seems to brush over how to deal with people who need to be incarcerated long-term (the essay alludes to being asked the question about murderers and rapists, but gives a bit of a pie-eyed answer to that question). Overall, though, it was a good read, although obviously the discussion of the prison industrial complex is quite chilling and the sexual assault that is pervasive in prisons is a disgusting human rights violation.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cotigo on June 05, 2015, 12:14:12 PM
Going Postal:

Terry Pratchett books are like Disney Movies for the idealistic college student. Fortunately I'm an idealistic college student under my scabs of misanthropic cynicism.  Slow start but once Lipwig got going the book basically read itself.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 17, 2015, 05:52:21 PM
Words of Radiance - Finally finished this after a few months of chipping at it. It's good but hampered by Kaladin not being all that great or exciting, although he's a lot better than he was in Way of Kings. Shallan backstory is good times. The book reminds me a bit of The Great Hunt in that it felt like shit was really getting real toward the end of the book. I'm interested in seeing what the series does with Eshonai. I'm pretty pumped for the third book in general, because Dalinar is my favorite character in the series and it is supposed to feature his backstory.

Order of the Phoenix - I haven't finished it yet but it's pretty great. I mostly read the book on the bus and I had to hide my tears when reading the scene with Neville at the hospital on Christmas Day. I think the book does an excellent job of making it hit home just how terrible Voldemort is (Mad-Eye Moody talking about all the people in the photograph was pretty touching) instead of just avoiding talking about him altogether (which is a pretty understandable reaction). The last two books really transition between a kid's series and a young adult series and I can't wait to read the last two.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 03, 2015, 12:43:23 AM
Barrayar- This was fantastic. Bujold's writing took a massive jump in quality between this and Shards of Honor; she does a far better job with scene construction and pacing in general with this book. Going to read Young Miles right after this.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on August 08, 2015, 06:09:51 AM
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - The book starts off relatively weaker than the other two later books that I've read, but it does some great foreshadowing and final setting building for the last book, and the last parts are excellent. I've known the spoiler for a long time and I still got pretty sad about it. Really excited to finish the series.

EDIT: I realized I forgot to post about 3 and 4. 3 is pretty good, nice mystery setup and great finish but overall not as good as the later books. 4 is great and somewhat subversive to your expectations but it is hampered a bit by the plot twist at the end.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 10, 2015, 05:48:36 PM
2/3ds of the way through Young Miles. The Warrior's apprentice is a lot of fun; it lets Miles quickly go explore the world around him and stumble into progressively higher stages of leadership.  The death in the book Bothari was shocking enough and makes perfect sense in context. The second short story is very brief (Mountains of Mourning) but gives a nice preview into exactly the issues facing Barrayar as a world and Miles's district in general.

As I said to VSM, Ivan is a lot of fun as a supporting character. Miles and Aral's blindness to his relative competence is hilarious, since both are usually better than that type of error.

Free Falling


Finished this. Leo Graf and the story of the Quaddies is impressive and a lot of fun to read, and Brucie baby made for an incredibly scummy villain. Onto Miles, Mayhem, and Mystery! I just started this one. It's off to the usual fun- Miles running headlong into trouble and some poor sap along for the ride.


Bujold is absolutely worth reading. Best way to describe it is as deeply character driven hard Sci-Fi. Bujold does a fine job with plot and worldbuilding, but the main attraction to the books are the characters. She gives every one of her characters an immense amount of depth; she is hands down the best scifi writer I have seen in the genre at handling that kind of thing (Take notes, Turtledove). Cordelia's Honor can be tough going, but once you get past that start it is pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 21, 2015, 07:18:59 PM
Just to check, Salvatore doesn't really have anything worth reading, right?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on August 21, 2015, 08:29:04 PM
For you?  Probably not.  Weiss and Hickman are probably as trashy licensed fantasy property as you can stomach.  Salvatore and Ed Greenwood are pretty counter Dhyer.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on August 23, 2015, 07:22:37 AM
Too bad. I was reading some stuff and I really, really like him as a person. To stay on target, I've been reading Melissa McPhial's a Pattern of Light and Shadow series. The last 200 or so pages of the second book may be my favorite 200 pages of any book ever thanks to basically having a lot of extremely excellent twists (albeit ones I probably should have seen coming) and mid-series payoffs. I finished book 2 at con and was sad to see that B&N wasn't carrying book 3 (since it's only been out about a year).

Very unsettling villain cast as well. Bethamin is especially creepy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on August 23, 2015, 07:23:44 PM
Miles, Mystery, and Mayhem- I finished Cetaganda. It's an interesting look at the the planet/people who have been rivals/enemies to Barraynar from the very start.  Ivan was a lot of fun in this book and Miles... well, he kind of acted like an idiot.  Ivan rightly called him out on this more than once (Even though Miles was right to act the way he did). The scenes with the Emperor in particular drove home that Miles definitely was not among friends. 


E: Ethan of Athos was really *really* strange but I ended up enjoying it. It was nice to see Quinn again, and Ethan was surprisingly likeable considering what a screwed up society he comes from.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on August 23, 2015, 11:24:54 PM
The Sword of Shannara:  Okay let's start with the positive.  Brooks *can* write.  He's very good with descriptive storytelling, giving a vivid view of each scene.

The negative?  Holy fuck this is the biggest ripoff of any media I've seen, ever.  This isn't like Lord of the Rings.  It *is* Lord of the Rings.  The characters are direct copies.  The situations are direct copies.  Hell they even have Theoden and Wormtongue, Gandalf's fight with the Balrog, everything.

I'm going to read the next two books since I bought it as a trilogy, but I sure hope there's an original thought coming soon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 24, 2015, 07:53:31 PM
Holy fuck this is the biggest ripoff of any media I've seen, ever.  This isn't like Lord of the Rings.  It *is* Lord of the Rings.

I'm inclined to say Dennis McKiernan's [series Cid forgets the name of due to sheer mediocrity] was worse about this because he genuinely intended to blatantly rewrite LotR until lawyers appeared, and then he just changed the absolute bare minimum to avoid said lawsuit. But I haven't read either of these series in like twenty years, so, details, largely forgotten and probably academic. (My one really solid memory of Sword of Shannara is that there is a dude named Alcoholics Anonymous.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on September 03, 2015, 10:15:39 PM
I used a day of air travel and hotel room downtime to burn through The Martian, and it was a really good light read. Very engaging, Mark Watney has a great voice (Damon is pretty much perfect casting for him, too) and Weir wrings a lot of drama out of science gambits variously succeeding or failing to science properly. Style-wise, the first novel-ness of it comes through in that it's very much Chekhov's Gun: The Book. So, so many guns conspicuously put above doors before they shoot somebody in the foot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 03, 2015, 11:03:38 PM
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Excellent book, great ending, I cried way too much.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 04, 2015, 12:21:19 AM
I liked The Martian. Hilariously, it just made me think of a good classic sci fi that didn't concern itself with much more than the next exciting thing. Considering the amount of "science" in it, that is a really good thing. Also that they're making a giant movie out of it, so the "science" thing gets a little more credibility.

Also, Andy Weir's a nice guy and his website sucks so a book was the next best thing.

--

I started reading Infinite Jest and am about 30 pages in. Currently, my impression is "Uhhh..."
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on September 04, 2015, 11:20:22 PM
Glad to see Ciato has good taste.  I have my complaints about Harry Potter books 5-7 but on the whole a lot of the whining about them comes down to nitpicking + Rowling having to take a universe of possibilities and make an actual ending where one thing happens.

In more belated comments, I'll echo Grefter that Salvatore is probably too trashy for what I perceive to be Dhyer's tastes.  He has some very readable books, but there's ultimately not a lot there.

The Daleks, I think Brooks famously used The Lord of the Rings as a "guide" while he was writing Sword of Shannara (while being a lawyer as his day job, writer by night).  2 buddies meet up with warrior prince dude (who is younger than Aragon, at least), wizard/druid guy solves a puzzle to get into cave, the last part of the quest involves Our Heroes solo infiltrating the lair of the bad guys, yupyup.  Dunno about the writing hype, though...  it's been a long time, but I recall some "first novel" hiccups.  Which is not all bad, some charming earnestness is nice, but I seem to recall a fair amount of... how to put it...  hyperbolic bluster?  Oh shit yeah I've got elf senses despite being a half-elf, I am so awesome, etc.

Anyway I like Elfstones, and Wishsong is okay.  (Not a spoiler: as the name suggests, one of the main characters literally has the ability to alter reality with wishes from the start of the book.  Needless to say the narrative doesn't spend tons of time on her since she's basically unstoppable.  Not surprised they left this out / nerfed it in later books!)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on September 06, 2015, 06:57:01 AM
Sooooooooo...someone was handing out free books at PAX, advertised it as kind-of like Ender's Game.  I like Ender's Game, and had no plans for the airplane, so I accepted a copy.  Book was called...

Red Rising

and...I enjoyed it!

There's bits that remind me a bit of song of fire and ice (but without the jumping perspective), and bits that remind me a little of Huxley's Brave New World.

I did wonder at who had been giving out the books for free, though.  The cynic in me wondered if it was the Sad Puppies--certainly the book is pulp-action-y with a straight male protagonist, so this sounded plausible.  Plus, the human race is split into castes kind of like Brave New World, and the ruling caste (the "golds") gave me a bit of a creepy "Aryan Nation" kind of vibe.  They are the bad guys, granted, but the book spends a fair bit of time on them and their politics.

(Actually, on the back of the book it says Random House was giving out the books for free, which makes sense given that it's apparently going to be a trilogy, and there's a movie being made even though the book is barely a year old; they're just hoping by giving this out for free people will get into the series...and I have to admit I'm considering picking up the second book).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on September 06, 2015, 07:27:59 PM
Not too surprising a publisher would be handing a book out for free.  Baen has its own free library on its own website where they have a few dozen books you can just download for free and they've been handing out free e-books for about a decade now, at least.  It's what got me reading the Honor Harrington series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on September 10, 2015, 07:09:49 PM
Hey Dhyer, have you read Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey?  Is it any good?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on September 12, 2015, 06:02:36 AM
Welp, so the marketing worked

Golden Sun (second in the Red Rising series).

Yeah, yeah, there's some space battles and land battles and people rising up.  But this book is really all about coming out of the closet; that felt like the focal point of the book.

I may be biased, though >_>
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 02, 2015, 05:19:47 AM
Hey Dhyer, have you read Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey?  Is it any good?

Sorry, I just saw this. I have read the first book, but not the sequels. It was definitely worth the read and from my recollection, I think you would like it. For some reason, I basically remember this book less than every other fantasy book I've ever read, so I'm on a little shaky ground here. It's really well liked though, and as opposed to say Rothfuss, there are valid reasons for this. The sequels are on my list of books to read (although for some reason when I am in bookstores, I tend to forget I am looking for them).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: The Duck on October 04, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
So, I haven't read anything that isn't a journal article or otherwise non-fiction in about seven years, so I'm open to any recommendations. I'm pretty behind on fiction  not written by Kazuo Ishiguro and am pretty open-minded. Can be any genre, but I feel like I haven't read any new fantasy in over fifteen years so if there are new series worth reading I'd be open for that too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on October 04, 2015, 03:41:59 PM
Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson is a good place to start.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 04, 2015, 03:47:24 PM
As far as fantasy from the last 15-20 years goes, my first two recommendations would probably be Robin Hobb or Brandon Sanderson. I'd start with Assassin's Apprentice or Mistborn. The former I'd recommend for her strong characters and plenty of grey morality (and her less-than-grey villains are some of the most hateable I've seen in ficiton, and I say that as praise), the latter is more exciting, action-oriented fantasy with a very coherent magic system and some intriguing mysteries.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: The Duck on October 04, 2015, 05:07:43 PM
I have read the Farseer and Tawny Man trilogies, but I see that she has some recent releases (Fitz and the Fool?), so I may catch up on that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 04, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
Her Liveship Traders series is also really good.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 04, 2015, 08:07:03 PM
Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson is a good place to start.

I would definitely start here. Super basically got most of the DL to read this, and I believe that it was universally very well liked here.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on October 04, 2015, 08:50:05 PM
I would cut my teeth on standalone Sanderson before hitting the series.  Not because either is bad, but Elantris is short and a very good flavour setter for his work.  Also starting earlier in an author and watch them develop is fun etcetc (yes I know Elantris is technically a series now, but it was more standalone at the time).

Also Lady Door got me kind of hooked on Charles Stross for some really down to earth near future sci fi.  He paints a banal corporate future rather than a flat out dystopia (though I think it is somewhat chanelling Thatcher-era UK at times).   Bonus points for police procedurals written in second person, also lesbian main characters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Ranmilia on October 04, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
Charles Stross

Yes.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 05, 2015, 05:51:18 PM
Mistborn is excellent. Elantris is also a good standalone Sanderson work.

Hobb is good but gets really weird really quickly. I liked the first trilogy but felt no urge to read any more of the series myself.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on October 05, 2015, 07:12:26 PM
I would definitely start here. Super basically got most of the DL to read this, and I believe that it was universally very well liked here.

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2n60k4.jpg)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on October 24, 2015, 08:13:18 PM
Life and Death: Twilight Reimagined

So.................there's a new twilight book.  Kind-of.  It's mostly a gender-swapped version of the first Twilight book (with a bunch of new scenes, and several scenes rewritten).

It's good, well-written and all, but it does confirm a few things for me.  In particular, I had gotten the feeling before that basically all of Stephenie Meyer's characters acted female.  (With a couple of minor exceptions).  This book really drills that home.  Edward Cullen (now Edythe Cullen) -- feels slightly more natural as a girl.

Bella Swan (now Beau Swan) LOLno, this character kind of just oozes girl.

Like...here's a scene that wasn't in the original book--this was imported specifically for the male Beau Swan--the context of this scene is that he's trying to get out of going to the Prom with Taylor, a girl who already bought a dress in anticipation:

Quote
At my  usual table, my friends were all just getting to their feet.  I walked towards them.
Patches of red flared in my cheeks, but that was probably okay. I was supposed to look emotional.  Anyway, the pretty guy in the melodramatic soap my mom used to watch religiously looked fired up when he did this scene.  Thanks to him, at least i had a general outline for my script, embellished by something I'd once thought about Edythe; I wanted to keep this flattering.
Jeremy noticed me first, and his eyes were speculative.  They flashed from my red face to where Edythe was and back to me.
"Taylor, can I have a minute?" I said as I walked up to her.  I didn't say it quietly.
She was right in the very middle of the cluster.  Logan turned to glower at me with his fishy green eyes.
"Sure, Beau," Taylor said looking confused.
"Look," I said, "I can't do this anymore."
Everyone fell silent.  Jeremy's eyes got all round.  Allen looked embarrassed.  McKayla shot me a critical glance, like she couldn't believe I was doing it this way.  But she didn't know exactly what I was doing, or why I needed this audience.
Taylor was shocked.  "What?"
I scowled.  It was easy--I was pretty angry right now that I hadn't talked myself out of this, or come up with a better way.  But it was too late for improv now.
"I'm tired of being a pawn in your game, Taylor.  Do you even realize that I have feelings of my own?  And all I can do is watch while you use me to make someone else jealous."  My eyes darted quickly to Logan, whose mouth was hanging open, and back to Taylor.  "You don't care if you break my heart in the process.  Is it being beautiful that's made you so cruel?"
Taylor's eyes were wide, her mouth opened in a little o.
"I'm not going to play anymore.  This whole prom charade?  I'm out.  Go with the person you really want to be with."  A longer glare this time at Logan.
And then I stalked away, slamming through the cafeteria doors in what I hoped was a dramatic way.
I was never going to live this down.
But at least I was free.  Probably worth it.
Suddenly Edythe was right next to me, keeping pace like we'd been walking together all along.
"That was truly spectacular," she said.
I took a deep breath.  "Maybe a little over the top.  Did it work?"
"Like a charm.  Taylor's feeling quite the femme fatale, and she's not even sure why.  If Logan doesn't ask her to the prom by Monday, I'll be surprised."
"Good," I grunted.
-pp 179-180 Life and Death, Twilight Reimagined

Like...it's a hilarious scene, don't get me wrong.  I'm glad Stephenie Meyer threw it in that chapter (the original chapter was kind-of dull).

But like...this scene, that wasn't in the original chapter, STILL feels gender swapped.  Could a guy get inspiration from his mother's soaps?  Sure, I guess.  Would a guy remember the lines from his mother's soaps?  Actually, Beau/Bella is a bit of an English nerd, so sure, remembering words is easy for this character.  But...the mannerisms.  Saying "it's clear who you want to be with" and then glaring at Logan without saying his name......  This feels like culturally, at least in the pacific northwest, like a very female way of communicating.  Relying on body language to complete your sentence for you rather than speaking it out loud.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on November 01, 2015, 03:11:51 AM
Also Lady Door got me kind of hooked on Charles Stross for some really down to earth near future sci fi.  He paints a banal corporate future rather than a flat out dystopia (though I think it is somewhat chanelling Thatcher-era UK at times).   Bonus points for police procedurals written in second person, also lesbian main characters.

Hey now, I recommended Stross as well...  if not that series.

...anyway, finished up Halting State a bit ago (haven't read Rule 34 yet).  You forgot the swordgirl, Grefter, I suspect that will sell the book more around these parts.  Anyway, pretty good: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1425379417 has a review.  For around here...  for the most part it's a pretty accurate future as predicted from 2006/7, but I'm skeptical of the way some of it worked as far as vidja games.  Stross basically hypothesizes that Future MMOs are:
A) Distributed systems via cell phones & Bitcoin-esque group validation to stop cheating.  Well...  maybe.  Cell phones ARE being used in lots of gaming, but not so much linked, and for a lot simpler games.  Still, sure, this is something that *could* happen.
B) And most of the future MMOs are apparently built on the same framework, just with different "zones" and sets of rules.  At a wimpy level, this is merely something like Steam where you can always see what games friends are playing and there's a common framework amongst them; at a more extreme level, this is hop-in-VR-hole in one game, pop up in other game.   This is *obviously* done because it's very dramatic and interesting for people from Game B to walk into Game A and have people in Game A yell cheats WTF.  Seems unlikely to happen, but in conjunction with A...?  Sure, I can buy it as a reasonable follow-on.  However.  While I can maybe see such a global framework coming into existence at some point, I can't ever imagine many games voluntarily letting in immigrants.  There's a plot point where some games seem to have some kind of happy open framework where they try & attract people over by basically agreeing to honor the items they got before.  That's something that's already dicey in D&D campaigns, and now we're talking about between *systems*?  We'll honor your WoW gear if you come play in WildStar or whatever?  Uh...  no.  Even if it's technically feasible, there's no way it'd be voluntarily allowed.  Regulars in a game who earned their stuff the hard way would revolt to see newbies walk in way better than them because they're from a higher level game.  The grind to build up a character is usually more fun than a max'd character anyway.  And for the power-players whom this would appeal to, games would crop up that just handed out max-level candy left & right in exchange for a nominal fee, and then those players would proceed to other games to wreck them.  Yeah, not seeing this as ever likely.

My little mini-rant!  But the book is great, don't let the above complaint throw you off, I just figured the DL would be the right audience for the above nitpicking.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on November 01, 2015, 08:46:34 AM
Well yes but I didn't want to tell people the reason I got into it was because you chose wrong and I bought Rule 34 because you decided to pick something else up (Rule 34 I think is better than Halting State, but that says nothing, I think Halting State is rad as hell).

On some of those concepts... A) is yeah pretty much something you could expect if the processing power could be distributed out and then can also support the bitcoin economy etcetc.  It is feasible I guess, but is still far enough out of reach to be in the realms of speculative and clearly shows he is pretty up on current popular tech ideas.


B) I have honestly been stunned this kind of doesn't happen already.  I have actually shaken it out of my head before but not sure who with.  I am honestly stunned that with all the free to play mobile games that are clones of each other to act as store fronts for microtransactions, I am honestly stunned there isn't a series of stuff all from one publisher that is a series of games that have 1:1 the same mechanics underneath the hood and shared servers just with different flavour skins over the top.  Why run Age of War and Age of Space, Age of Fairies and Age of No John You Are the Demons where they all functionally work the same with 1 million subscribers each when you could secretly run 1 game with 4 million subscribers that all chase different demographics?  Blur that into VR stuff with distributed networks and heyyyy I could totally see skin cheats showing up in other people's games if they have player built stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 05, 2015, 12:18:29 PM
Wheel of Time Companion: Basically a sequel to the big white book. I'd more recommend it as something to pick up secondhand or borrow from a library.  The book does solve some minor mysteries (Jared Byar was compelled by Grendael and Nicola was the one who betrayed Egwene to the tower Aes Sedai) but by and large it's rehash and background information. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on November 05, 2015, 12:51:12 PM
Shadows of Self: Fun read! I feel like it was a step down from Alloy of Law -- much more of a direct through-line, with less world-building and character work -- but that might be the fact that it's clearly the middle part of a trilogy, while AoL could have stood alone if necessary. Still, middling Sanderson is still a good time, especially when it's action-focused.

Spoilery stuff: I'm really glad to see that Sazed is still an actual character in the books going forward, and that Sanderson's going to (hopefully) explore the motives and agency of an active, long-term Shard-holder.
Called the mayor being Bleeder early on. Did NOT call her being Lessie for reals. Not sure how I feel about that.
Hoid's cameo is super lazy, which may have contributed to my overall opinion of the book; it's inconsequential but still kind of jarring, tonally.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 15, 2015, 05:11:07 PM
I've read most every Sanderson book and I still have yet to see or care about Hoid.
Shadows of Self:  Basically see Shale. I didn't call the big plot tw\ists but I also wasn't trying too hard to figure it out ahead of time. Decent fun but not amazing.

For the Wheel of Time fans: One of the super hardcore fans got access to Jordan's notes (They were donated to a library) and found two pretty interesting tidbits that did not make it into the companion.  I won't spoil it but I was pretty amused when I read them.

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8767
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 25, 2015, 02:37:13 PM
Mirror Dance and Memories- Finished. Mirror Dance was a slow starter (What the hell, Thorne) but it was as good as expected. Same as Memories. Simon Illyan gets a Michael Carpenter style retirement and the book in general was great fun. 

I also read Komarr, a civil campaign, winterfaire gift, and diplomatic immunity. Been busy reading! Mirror Dance was a bit of slow starter but the books are pretty great  Ivan remains my favorite character in the series who isn't miles or his immediate family.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on November 26, 2015, 08:01:43 PM
I've been working on Robin Hobb's Liveship series and read both Ship of Magic and Mad Ship. Overall I'm a little happier with the series than with Farseer thus far, but neither book is quite as good as the second book in that series. I'm a little worried about the direction of the end of the second book, but we'll see. I'm now taking a break from that series to read The Hunger Games.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 06, 2015, 12:43:05 AM
And finished off all the current Bujold books. I'm not surprised her pace slowed down massively after Miles's wedding, but it's still sad to see she's only done a few books in the past 15 years. It was a great read with strong characters and world building. Definitely recommend the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on January 03, 2016, 05:53:57 AM
A Dance with Dragons

I had actually never picked this up, feeling pretty worn-out after the previous book.  Luckily a lot of my complaints of the other books weren't too relevant so far--the first few chapters were Danerys, Tyrion, Jon (and a prologue, but a prologue where someone jumps bodies between humans, so it was still moderately interesting).

That said, my reaction after reading the first few chapters was "this book sucks, I'm going to try the other book I bought which I knew nothing about on buying."  Aaaaand I kinda ended up reading that entire series and forgetting about A Dance with Dragons.

Lunar Chronicles Series

So...this entire series is a sci-fi re-imagining of fairy tales, often heavily re-done to the point that you really don't know what's going to happen.

Actually I'm going to break this down by character rather than by book or fairy tale inspiration.

Cinder: She's a cyborg, she's a mechanic, she's badass, and overall honestly probably the most compelling character in the series, or in the running.  Which is good when you're the main character.

Scarlet: If I have a criticism of Scarlet, it's that she sometimes feels like her personality doesn't differ enough from Cinder's.  I mean, yeah, she's a pilot and not a mechanic, and a farmer who uses a shotgun, and she doesn't have Cinder's various superpowers.  But they both mostly fill the niche of badass competent protagonist.  This would also explain why they're not often in the same place at the same time.

Cress: Best programmer in the solar system, and constantly upbeat and ridiculously idealistic.  I feel like I -should- looooove Cress, but...I honestly think she's the weakest of the four main characters.  I think part of the problem is that she's taken out of her element a lot, which admittedly isn't hard (get her away from a computer terminal and she's pretty useless.  Get her computer access and she's god).  I also felt like her romance subplot kind-of grated at times.  (I mean, it's not a computer terminal, so she's really bad at it, but then that means it takes a long time for that arc to resolve...).

Winter: OK, Winter can maybe compete with Cinder for best character.  I don't even want to give anything away about the character, but she actually is really visceral, and I like her implementation.

Kai: Eh...I'm pretty lukewarm on Kai.  Like...in theory everything about him is fairly likeable (the fariy tale character he represents is Prince Charming after all).  But he's part of a number of some of the slower more political chapters (pulled out whenever we need a perspective into global politics).  And he also gets damseled a lot.  Really, there's nothing wrong with his character, highly competent, empathetic, etc, but he gets used as storyline glue a lot.

Dr. Erland: a.k.a. Doctor "Ends justify the means".  Honestly, I think he's an excellent morally grey character.  I really ended the series thinking he's a total asshole.  But would the world have been better without him?  Probably not, to be honest.

Captain Thorne: He is a walking clichee, but he's a likeable walking clichee, and he does actually have genuine character development.  Can't really complain.

Wolf: In a series where the male characters are sometimes sidelined, he's probably the best male character.  His character arc has a lot of highs and lows, and some fairly unexpected twists (to me).

Jacin: Hmm...honestly he exists to be the straight man.  Hugely eclipsed by the characters around him, he's kind-of just a normal dude.

Levana: I actually haven't read the side book about her yet (Fairest) so I'll reserve judgment.  Excluding that, she's like...comic-book levels of evil.

Aimery Park: Although Park shows us that being a comic-book evil henchman can be done with some spice.  He's genuinely twisted and deranged, instead of just being efficient like Sybil Myra.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on January 04, 2016, 04:04:31 AM
(Continued from last post).  I've now read Fairest, time to give my opinion on Levana

Iko: Not sure how I forgot her.  Iko is great, although comic releif.

Levana: So.....now that I understand her character better...basically she is a less ruthless Stalin.  She really wants to run her country efficiently, and she finds out she's actually really good at it, and willing to put her country before her emotional attachments.

Channary: Channary needs to be a villain to Levana, needs to make you root for Levana, which sounds like a tall order given that Levana is basically Stalin, but Channary actually succeeds quite well in her role.  Part of this is achieved through jealousy.  Part of this is achieved through direct cruelty towards Levana.  But what really makes Channary work as a villain is her irresponsibility.  She'd much rather be partying than running a country.  Which, as a foil to space stalin works quite well.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on January 13, 2016, 09:06:09 PM
The Innocent Mage by Karen Miller

So this was a book. It was largely 600 pages of characters faffing about. The antagonist was not introduced until about 4/5's of the way through the book, the overarching plot is presented early but is never really relevant during the story, it protracts some trainwrecks with stupid decision making (does this drive anyone nuts when something is obviously going to go horribly wrong and it takes forever for it to happen?), the "bad" folks are all irredeemably nasty, and, even when it tries to soften some of them (I'm looking at you, Fane), it completely ignores the fact that they tried to do things like commit straight up murder, and it ends effectively mid-scene to go into the follow-up book. Like, literally, some characters go off a cliff, some don't, book end.

Basically, it's kind of infuriating.

I will say that the dialogue and character stuff, on average, is quite fun. It's just that 600 pages of plotless, developmentless, faffing is a lot of goddamn faffing.

Unsure if I'll give book 2 a look.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 25, 2016, 10:07:53 PM
Gentlemen Jole and the Red Queen: Eh. It has it's moments, but by and large it wasn't an impressive outing. Bujold called this a novel for adults, but that's a pretty lazy copout to avoid looking at the fundamentla issues with the book. The subplots are an absolute mess and the main plot's predicable. There's character work in the book I like, but I can't really recommend it unless you're a serious Vorkosigan fan.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 08, 2016, 05:49:36 AM
The Hunger Games trilogy - First one is quite good, second one is very enjoyable, and the third is a weird drama-filled mess of decent ideas with poor execution.

Pride and Prejudice - too much dithering and nothing happens
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on February 08, 2016, 12:06:36 PM
Pride and Prejudice - too much dithering and nothing happens

That may be why Jane Austen decided to add the zombies.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 11, 2016, 02:03:50 AM
Ken Scholes- Requiem. Book 4 out of a 5 book series. The plotlines keep getting more insane, but in the best ways possible. I would highly recommend the series. The world, the plotlines and the characters all feel relatively fresh. All 6 main characters are incredibly distinct and generally awesome as fuck. Really excited to see how the series wraps up. Book 5 isn't done yet, but Scholes is really upfront about where he is in the process.

I also love how the main plot line is basically FF 4 the book and 2-3 character plot lines take place on the moon.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 11, 2016, 02:06:56 AM
The Innocent Mage by Karen Miller

So this was a book. It was largely 600 pages of characters faffing about. The antagonist was not introduced until about 4/5's of the way through the book, the overarching plot is presented early but is never really relevant during the story, it protracts some trainwrecks with stupid decision making (does this drive anyone nuts when something is obviously going to go horribly wrong and it takes forever for it to happen?), the "bad" folks are all irredeemably nasty, and, even when it tries to soften some of them (I'm looking at you, Fane), it completely ignores the fact that they tried to do things like commit straight up murder, and it ends effectively mid-scene to go into the follow-up book. Like, literally, some characters go off a cliff, some don't, book end.

Basically, it's kind of infuriating.

I will say that the dialogue and character stuff, on average, is quite fun. It's just that 600 pages of plotless, developmentless, faffing is a lot of goddamn faffing.

Unsure if I'll give book 2 a look.

I would say that 2 is more plotty, but less fun. There's probably another a lot of other better stuff to read. It's funny that out of all the fantasy authors out there, Karen Miller has had at least 3 DLers have her stuff now (Since she's not particularly prominent). I liked her other series more (and I think Ciato did too?).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 13, 2016, 01:24:33 AM
Mistborn: The Bands of Mourning: It's more of the same. There's some good character work and world building here, but it's nothing to go out of the way to read if you didn't love the first two Wax and Wayne books. (Note to Shale: I can loan you the third book). It's fun but I don't love it; I enjoy the Mistborn universe but I don't care at all about the Cosmere; see below. The books read like a way for Sanderson to have fun and blow off steam. The character work is excellent as always. Steris in particular stands out, she is hilarious and makes the perfect match for Wax.

Mistborn: Secret History- A behind the scenes look at the first three Mistborn books from a spoilery PoV.  It very specifically spoils everything written in Mistborn to this point, so don't read it until then if you care. See spoiler tags. Kelsier 'cheated' death through the power of the Well and helps the good guys and Preservation win the day. It's been heavily hinted at in the main books, but this confirms the extent of it. He also hid the Bands of Mourning (Rashek's Metalminds) and impersonated the Lord Ruler to the people living on the other side of the planet. It's fun  to get inside of Kelsier's head again at least! There's also a bunch of Cosmere stuff in there but I don't care at all.

The best scene in the book was Kelsier meeting Rashek after Vin killed him. It was pretty hilarious to see Rashek see what was going on, literally going NOPE and moving on to the afterlife. Kelsier meeting Vin again was great too.


Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 13, 2016, 04:32:53 AM
I've actually only read the first book in Karen Miller's second series, but I plan to fix that pretty soon! I finished Pride and Prejudice, which ended up being fairly entertaining if a bit slow and a bit derailed toward the end. Now I am going to try out the Night Angel series by Brent Weeks (since one of my friends recommended it highly) and then probably read the second book in the Empress series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 13, 2016, 08:50:35 AM
Night Angel is a fun romp. I think all the DLers who I know read it liked it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 13, 2016, 01:34:08 PM
Been reading parts of the series again at a slower clip to chew on things. It's a wonderful series, but the degree to which it trails off after a civil campaign (Okay and Winterfaire Gifts is great) is painful. She gets increasingly bad about working sideplots into the main book. Cyroburn could've been reduced to the final page+500 word epilogue and have lost nothing of value; diplomatic immunity had too much rehash and The Red Queen was a mess in spite of having Cordelia as the POV character. I also think one  of the big premises of The Red Queen (Aral and Cordelia had a secret husband) is pretty terrible. Aral bedded his underling who was young enough to be his son and we are supposed to find that to be acceptable? Ugh. (This has nothing to do with the whole bisexual part and everything to do with it being a fucked up thing for a commanding officer to do)

Captain Vorpatril's Alliance was great fun at least, but it benefited tremendously from a strong cast (Ivan, Simon, Gregor, Duv).  Per the author she's in semiretirement so it's not surprising that the books have trailed off in terms of pace, but the quality of them has been a letdown. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 14, 2016, 12:48:25 AM
Might Angel series is super trashy.  It was fun when I read it but it could easily be a D&D tie in book with how trashy it is.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 16, 2016, 05:47:00 AM
I've read the first 75 pages, and yeah, pretty trashy. Very male centric as well (which is why I rarely take recommendations for books from men that aren't vetted by me as trustworthy).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on February 16, 2016, 06:27:47 AM
Oh gods yes it is.  I barely think of trashy pulp as being representative.  White dudes writing about dope white dudes end to end in pulpy genre fiction.suck it Andy.


It is probably okay as a burner read, but mostly as a moment in time for an author.  The release cycle for an authors first book THAT aggressive is pretty interesting to see.suck it hard

He pretty much had 0 chance for public feedback between book 1 and 2 from memory and book 3 is a bit beater because of it, but it is still super trashy.yeah u like that don't u
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on February 27, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Bands of Mourning: I liked this way more than Shadows of Self, to the point where it's a bit confusing to think of them being written back to back. Where Shadows felt episodic and a bit pointless, Bands has some solid additions to the overall Mistborn setting, finally pushes the plot that Alloy of Law teased into the spotlight, and sets up some interesting Cosmere stuff. I'm not a huge fan of the way it retcons the end of the first trilogy, but I'll live.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 29, 2016, 02:26:29 AM
I think Brent Weeks' second series (which I do like better myself) is better on gender balance (although the main two characters are men, the women around them are definitely their equals in skill and personality).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 30, 2016, 11:56:19 PM
Gave up on the Brent Weeks experiment...

The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms - I've been having trouble reading this too. First person isn't always the best to start with, and the plot is a little slow moving and the storytelling style is choppy. We'll see if I decide to stick with this one either.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on May 22, 2016, 08:01:30 PM
Read through Innocent Mage and Awakened Mage by Karen Miller.

I liked the first book quite well. Some neat character work and point of view work here, and had a lot of neat situations/discussions to read about. I felt Miller succeeded at making may buy the perspectives of multiple characters, even when they disagree strongly, as they do often. Prince Gar is a pretty cool character and Asher is at least a unique, much more blunt and working-class take on the everyman hero (although the second book ended up souring me on him).

The second book was frustrating, as it pissed away several of its more interesting side characters and politics, and had a couple major idiot ball and plot contrivance sequences, and the last quarter of the book seemed to consist mostly of the characters bitching at each other like children.

1. The reasoning for letting Asher do weather magic makes no sense and I don't buy either that Gar would propose it or Asher would agree. It completely contradicts both characters and pretty much creates a Bad Situation because the plot demands one.
2. Morg randomly regains the ability to possess people at the most narratively convenient instant, and generally spends the rest of the book acting like an insufferable villain Stu until he can be killed by random bullshit superpowers. I enjoyed the character's PoVs at first but he really wore thin.
3. The series has three major characters who could be described as morally grey: Durm, Fane, and Jarralt. Siiiiiiigh. (Darran kinda counts I guess, he's cool. Certainly my favourite of the supporting cast.)


But I enjoyed the good parts enough to keep reading this author, so Empress is up next.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on June 06, 2016, 05:57:54 PM
Redshits: A Novel with 3 Codas

This was slightly different than expected in a lot of different ways. Very punchy, if much, much sillier than expected. If the premise sounds interesting, I think it's worth a read.

Critical Failures (1)

Haven't had a "trapped in a tabletop RPG" book in a while (which is far superior to the trapped in an MMO trope), so hey, started this. The system is a pretty unabased DnD 3.X clone, which is fun. On the whole, it's... kind of a silly book. I'm a little torn on the characters who are... kinda assholes, but kinda not? Book also ends in a rather unexpected place. All told, will probably give the rest of the series a shot once I plow through the remainder of my audiobook backlog.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on June 06, 2016, 10:34:16 PM
Redshits: A Novel with 3 Codas

Ah, i see you enjoyed SO3 the novelization.  Definitely a fun romp that could have gone wrong in oh so many ways but manages to skate by on strong characters and not overstaying its welcome.  Also, having the characters live in a setting where technobabble science can appear almost entirely randomly and has reality warping powers that the characters can harness and use makes oh so much more sense than somehow creating a phantasmagorical keystone that allows the nigh impossible trip from fiction to reality, and just leaving it sitting there when you decide to destroy the world.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on June 06, 2016, 10:44:14 PM
It still works with the whole paragraph Excal

This was slightly different than expected in a lot of different ways. Very punchy, if much, much sillier than expected. If the premise sounds interesting, I think it's worth a read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on June 09, 2016, 08:06:18 AM
JK Nemisin- The Fifth Season. Nemisin's writing and ideas just keep getting better. I'm about 75% of the way through this and I love it. Nemisin always builds unique worlds, but this one is utterly captivating. I'd love for this to be a very long series just for how fascinating the world is. And it looks like book 2 is out in paperback in August.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on June 13, 2016, 06:00:07 PM
Welcome to Night Vale - A Novel

So, having never listened to the podcast before, that was an experience. Very funny. The audiobook read was stellar (shock, amaze). The writing style was a bit strange though, utilizing a surprising amount of repetition in parts. Also has some issues with working in an inherently strange setting (when everything is strange, making certain things also stand as extra strange is challenging and it is sometimes hard to understand why one thing bothers characters and another doesn't.

That said, enjoyed it immensely. If you want some Twilight Zone, Lovecraft, whatever, weirdness, but funny, give it a look.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on June 28, 2016, 07:19:46 AM
The Windup Girl

It's literary sci-fi. It sorta feels like exactly what I'd expect literary sci-fi to be.

Dark, gritty, full of terrible tragedy, florid language, prostitution, rape, etc.

It has some real high points (anything related to spirituality in the book really worked for me), but... eh? At the end, I'm kinda left wondering what the point was, as it were.

Two dead main characters, one main character whose status is a mystery, one who is alive and doing a thing that may destroy Thailand, and one alone in the empty, flooded ruins of Bangkok who will now usher in the end of humanity.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 19, 2016, 07:20:28 PM
I read The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. I will echo some of Super's comments about the book - very good writing style, pretty bad storytelling. Devi is my pick for randomly awesome character, but a lot of the other characters made very little impact on me. I'll pick up the second book at some point.

Next is The Riven Kingdom by Karen Miller.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on July 19, 2016, 11:25:33 PM
Oh right.

Dragonvein, Book 1

Meh. Felt like bog standard fantasy. Didn't do anything interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 20, 2016, 02:20:56 AM
I read The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. I will echo some of Super's comments about the book - very good writing style, pretty bad storytelling. Devi is my pick for randomly awesome character, but a lot of the other characters made very little impact on me. I'll pick up the second book at some point.

Next is The Riven Kingdom by Karen Miller.

I seriously cannot wait for you to read book 2. It has so much promise at first and then it develops into such a embarrassing trainwreck that you expect Shion to be introduced as Kvothe's next love interest.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 22, 2016, 11:08:44 AM
The Barbed Coil by JV Jones- Picked up this in the library a few days ago and read the first 100 pages last night. (Only six years after Dhyer or Gref or both recommended her to me!). Fantastic so far. She has a really easy to get into writing style and her characters are very compelling. Definitely going to finish this and read more of her stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: metroid composite on August 02, 2016, 08:30:46 AM
Morning Star.

Third in the Red Rising trilogy, and...it's pretty weak TBH.  I loved the first book, thought the second book was pretty good.  The third book I put down for a few months before finishing.  I think the problem is that by the time the third book was out, it was already known that this trillogy would be a movie.  So...it's written like a movie.  We normally know the inner thoughts of the main character, but there's a long stretch where he knows everything is faked and part of the plan, but the audience does not.  It's the kind of twist that works in a movie where nobody knows the inner thoughts of a character, but feels inconsistent in a book.  In an abstract formulaic way I still liked it, good characters, good premise, but it fell flat as a book for me.

Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

(minor SPOILERS that are revealed very early)

Yeah, it exists.  The protagonists are pretty well-done.  The antagonists--fucking Voldemort again?  Really?  Dude's been dead for 20 years.  (His servant was cool, though).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: dunie on October 08, 2016, 04:43:10 PM
Just finished Leaving Atlanta by Tayari Jones. It's on the serial killings in Atlanta at the end of the 70s. Reading this book shortened what little distance I had. Fiction isn't enough insulation. I'm going to move onto Fifth Season.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on October 23, 2016, 04:24:58 AM
I finished the Riven Kingdom, finally. Good book, but it takes me a while to get through the books in this series for whatever reason. Female lead is pretty enjoyable if a bit of a generic feminist-empowerment character, and the male lead is pretty unusual in that he's pretty much just some dude. Definitely some interesting religious takes in the book, particularly with Zankadar.

I'm currently halfway through The Serpent's Shadow by Mercedes Lackey. Fast-paced and solidly written characters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 23, 2016, 01:58:37 PM
I finished the Riven Kingdom, finally. Good book, but it takes me a while to get through the books in this series for whatever reason. Female lead is pretty enjoyable if a bit of a generic feminist-empowerment character, and the male lead is pretty unusual in that he's pretty much just some dude. Definitely some interesting religious takes in the book, particularly with Zankadar.

I'm currently halfway through The Serpent's Shadow by Mercedes Lackey. Fast-paced and solidly written characters.


:-* I know what you should read next: *waves around a copy of Wise Man's Fear* How can you resist the adventures of Kvothe's magic penis?!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 26, 2016, 02:56:03 AM
I like that you now attack with Rothfuss books the way you would attack with say...Xenosaga 3. That's about what the books deserve...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on October 26, 2016, 08:00:06 PM
Those books are bad and should be a running joke instead of being subject to the hype it gets.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Excal on November 08, 2016, 04:45:55 AM
WoT Reread:  Been my main project for the better part of 2016.  Currently on Book 11.  Despite my memories of Knife of Dreams being good, I had forgotten how much of the early book is the romantic adventures of Mat and Slaver Queen.  At least I finally got to Moiraine's letter, even if that's another two books until it pays off.  Can't wait until I get to whoever is next, be it Elayne or Rand.  They've both been consistently excellent.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on November 14, 2016, 08:56:57 AM
Blood Mirror- Book 4 of Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series. For some reason, I thought this was the final book, but there's clearly another forthcoming. The series is defintely good at deliviring both action and plot twists.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on November 28, 2016, 08:45:57 PM
So I discovered my local library's e-book lending system last month, and as a result I have a lot to get through here.

Firefight: The second part of Brandon Sanderson's dystopian YA where the world has been taken over by supervillains. It does the middle-chapter-of-a-trilogy thing pretty much to a T, but it's a fun, quick read. Plus as you'd expect from something with "Brandon Sanderson" on the cover there are good action scenes and a complex magic (-slash-superpowers) system where figuring out the underlying logic is key to victory. Reading the third installment now.

Caliban's War: Second volume of The Expanse, which is not a trilogy so it doesn't hit the same Part 2 beats as Firefight, thankfully. Some parts feel like a retread of Leviathan Wakes but the new perspectives are well done and it's overall solid bleak-ass space opera.

Underground Airlines: A really, really strong entry in the "what if the Civil War didn't turn out like it should have" alternate history genre. It's an engaging noir story, but also a disconcertingly accurate study in how people, and the American culture in particular, can rationalize and adapt to what ought to be an unthinkably cruel state of affairs. Bonus points for possibly-unintentional timeliness on that front!

Veronica Mars: The Thousand-Dollar Tan Line: And speaking of noir. This is a direct sequel to the movie, and returns to episodic storytelling along the lines of the TV show. Or at least what the TV show would be if it got a new season on cable, since the mystery revolves around spring break in Neptune and they don't exactly defy the stereotypes on that one, with a few scenes that would definitely not fly unedited on networks. They mostly get the characters' voices right, and while the ending falls apart somewhat it's not enough to ruin the overall experience. I'll pick up the second (and apparently final?) one sooner or later.

Ancillary Sword: Sequel to Ancillary Justice, which was an excellent, unconventionally told space opera/revenge story that won the Hugo and Nebula a few years ago. Sadly, it's a letdown, failing to meaningfully follow up on the first book's premise or ending and instead throwing the hero into her own version of Deep Space Nine. It's a decently done DS9 ripoff, but that's not even close to what I wanted from this. Luckily there's a third book...

Ancillary Mercy: Okay, that's more like it. Lots of stuff introduced in Sword that was pointless at the time is used well here -- it doesn't quite rise to the level of paying off all that stuff, more like salvaging it, but it still makes for a good book. It also manages to keep the story personal for the protagonist while still involving the larger plotline that Sword used as window dressing. I wouldn't recommend Sword on its own, but it's worth reading to get to Mercy.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on December 10, 2016, 05:25:24 PM
Had to read a couple of books for the program I'm starting in January.

The Short Bus by Jonathon Mooney- A book about a guy who travelled around the country chatting with people with different learning disabilities and observing how they were treated by people and the education system. Very informative and insightful. One of the stories is about a young girl who is both deaf and blind (or mostly blind at least, she can understand sign language if you do it inches from her face). The author says, despite his own disability, that he didn't really think of her as an actualized human being because of her deformity and disability, but she just experienced the world with her own sensory feelings; touch, taste, smell. I definitely think it's a good book to read if you want to understand how people with disabilities are treated in our society, but a bit sad at times.

The Inconvenient Indian by Thomas King - An account of the history of Native relations in both Canada and the US by a Cherokee author living in Canada. Much like the previous book, focuses heavily on the dehumanization of a particular group of people, but takes a very different approach. This book is quite acidic and sarcastic in its assessment of North American society's treatment of native people. The narratives about civilizing Native people by taking their children and extracting them from their culture is utterly infuriating and cruel, and its effects on Native society as a whole are quite terrible. I think this book gave me a much better understanding of how far we still have to go to, as a society, treating all people with kindness and respect. Also of interest was that it mentioned Trump being someone who tried to infringe on Native land, but of course it was written before the whole election cycle.

Also decided to tackle other stuff once I finished that.

Foundation by Isaac Asimov - I decided to read some classic sci-fi, and it's decent. Even though it's relatively short, it covers a long period of time and follows lots of different characters, clearly going more for setting building and psychological analysis of the human condition and tech than any character analysis. Very male-dominated in a way that would make Tolkien or Shakespeare blush.

The Hammer of God by Karen Miller - I haven't finished this one yet, but it's my favorite of the three Godspeaker novels thus far.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on December 12, 2016, 07:51:17 AM
I liked the first half of Ancillary Justice, for all that it was a weird book.  Just...  stopped, after the drug addict escaped.  I should get back to it.

Re Foundation series: I'm probably being unfair, but I could never bring myself to buy the fundamental conceit of the Foundation series.  Like, space samurai wield laser swords to fight over the Galaxy?  Sure.  An alien has laser vision which inexplicably means stuff like reading a book behind a door but doesn't work on lead and can burn stuff on command?  Why not.  But human behavior is something we know a lot more about, and according to Foundation, predicting one random supergenius is hard, but predicting a whole group of people is easy.  Wat.  No it's not.  You can at least research a single person and get a guess of their values, their desires, their habits, and so on.  Mobs do things that any one person wouldn't do, and further, are very chaotic based on semi-random things that instigate them - a charismatic leader, a sudden surprise event, a random outburst, etc.  Controlling groups is hard.  (Heck, it's pretty easy to see that from democratic elections which are close...  predicting 2017 America from 2015 requires a good guess about whether JEB or Hillary will win, for example.  Or even some crazy random unexpected thing.  Let alone predicting 2117 America.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on December 12, 2016, 02:25:28 PM
Yeah as much as I love Asimov's other works, I've never been able to get into Foundation.  Tried to read it twice and dropped it twice.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 19, 2017, 05:40:07 AM
Posted this on Facebook, but I will repost for fun.

I'm doing a book reading challenge for the year, meeting some random criteria in order to get out of my comfort zone / just read some cool stuff.

Book 1: Karen Miller - The Hammer of God (Godspeaker #3) (A book over 500 pages long) *Note that I started this in 2016 but read the majority in 2017

Hammer of God is probably the best book in the trilogy. It features the rich and diverse cast of the previous book but ups the stakes of the story, having the two primary factions meet head-on. There’s lots of character conflicts and other fun character pieces, and the action keeps the story flowing. It also has some pretty awesome female characters.

Book 2: Elie Wiesel - Night (A memoir)

This is a book about the Holocaust, a subject which makes me introspective on the nature of humans and the cruelty of humanity. It goes into graphic details of the dehumanization of Jews in Nazi Germany, and follows a teenage boy’s struggles with the physical hunger and stress, the mental weariness, and the emotional distress of grappling with having faith in your religion despite what you’ve been through (and features a lot of different point of views on the subject). The end talks about how to look at these events in a modern lens and the importance of standing up for injustice.

Book 3 is Eden Robinson's Monkey Beach, which I am a little over 1/3rd through. It's about a Native girl living in northern British Columbia and how their experiences have been altered by residential schools and alcoholism. It also has a mystical and mysterious element to it, which is also interesting.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on January 19, 2017, 06:57:34 PM
A Borrowed Man, by Gene Wolfe.  Sci fi think piece about the clone of a famous author who is treated as the disposable property of a library, to be consulted and checked out by humans, and to be destroyed once interest in his life and work has passed.

Naturally, naturally! it is a Raymond Chandler-esque noir detective story, and a pretty good one at that.  I say Raymond Chandler-esque - it seems to me that Wolfe went out of his way to try and match the narrative flow and writing style of Chandler, although he lacks the poetic one-liners.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 04, 2017, 01:00:55 PM
Legion 1/2- Brandon Sanderson short stories. They are delightful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_(series) The wiki review covers what matters here. It reminds me just how fun Sanderson is when he plays with an idea, rather than trying to constantly worldbuild and fit everything into the cosmosphere.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: AndrewRogue on March 06, 2017, 08:30:50 PM
The Lies of Locke Lamora

A bit schlocky, but exactly my kind of schlock. Lots and lots of fun character stuff and con artist shenanigans. A little disappointed in how some of the turns went, but overall a very strong recommend.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: dunie on March 16, 2017, 10:01:22 AM
Hillbilly Elegy is trash. I'm exhausted trying to live in the same world as my white liberal colleagues. Putting this parallel movement to the side for a bit.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on April 12, 2017, 02:54:11 AM
I decided to catch up on my reading journal today. :D

Book 3 - Eden Robinson - Monkey Beach

The book is a mostly realistic book about life in an Indigenous community in northern British Columbia with some supernatural elements from traditional Haisla stories sprinkled in. I am traditionally not that fond of mixing supernatural elements with stories set in our world, but because it was based on tales and legends, I thought it was actually insightful and interesting. It’s definitely a slice of life with a bit of a dark twist, and it definitely brings into focus the modern Indigenous experience in Canada and how it is both similar and different to my own life experience. It’s part teenage coming of age novel and part dark commentary, and I think it works pretty well.

Book 4 - Carmine Gallo - Talk like TED

I decided to pick up a self-help book to help me be a more engaging public speaker. To be honest, the book was pretty corny and full of advice that seemed pretty obvious, but I felt like some of it still needed to be reinforced. It felt like one of these manufactured stories of people just to sell books. (i guess it worked?)

Book 5 - Robert Jordan - A New Spring

This book is the prequel book to the Wheel of Time series, set around a monumental event in the backstory. It is a story that primarily revolves around Moiraine, the mentor character of the Wheel of Time series who is a widely beloved character in the original story by most readers, including me. I don't think the book is an essential part of the Wheel of Time experience, but it was an enjoyable read, especially to learn more about a couple of my favorite characters, as well as some insight into the the White Tower and how a 'normal' pre-WoT Tower would have looked. And not that it is all that surprising, but it also shows a case of White Tower meddling in the politics of other countries. It spends a lot of time talking about dress color and dress design which is one of the quirky things about Jordan.

Book 6 - John Steinbeck - Of Mice and Men

It's one of the classics, and it's short and sweet. It's a very evocative story, and from a modern lens it reads as a little strange, but I think it is a valueble insightful into the way that migrant workers during the Depression lived and I can resonate with the sadness associated with having nowhere to call your own. Very sad end to the story.

Book 7 - Nina George – The Little Paris Bookshop

This was a random recommendation that I decided to try out, especially since it's not my usual type of book - I usually lean away from sentimental stories because I often find them insincere. This one is pretty good - it has a bit of an unreliable narrator, lots of great life lessons, and a sincere sentimental feeling and a feeling of seizing the moment that I really enjoy. I think the main character is a bit of a weirdo - lying to yourself about something as important as what he did is quite interesting and weird - but it works well anyway. He’s on a journey to stop being a recluse and living again after so long of being heartbroken. I also always think it’s interesting when stories build up the suspense and interest in meeting a character for a whole book and then you finally do. 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on April 12, 2017, 03:33:00 AM
New Spring came originally from a short story that was (from memory I read it in high school, Super?) the start and the end of the book essentially.  It absolutely is a story for fans, especially from when it was released (before book 8 I think? Edit - just after book 10), when you had not had any Moiraine for a long time and a bit of retrospective went a long way.

Definitely the book that I don't give enough credit and has aged better in my memory than others.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 12, 2017, 12:05:59 PM
It was based on a short story that came out pre 9-11 yeah. The new spring novella expanded upon it. There were supposed to be three, the second was centered around Tam finding Rand and his rise in the Illianer army, and the third about how how Moiraine and Lan's journey to The Two Rivers before The Eye of the World. It's a very good look at the White Tower and the world in general before Rand changes everything. RJ put a lot of things in there that he wasn't planning on putting in the main books. (Sanderson ended up reusing the Aes Sedai test for Nynaeve but hard to blame him; he wrote something like 90% of the last three books).

It's also the first POV from Lan that I can recall. Moiraine had been gone for a long time by that point too yeah.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Shale on April 12, 2017, 04:24:22 PM
I'm reading Mercury Falls for book club and it's.....Good Omens fanfic, basically? But also the first part of a series? It's a dark comedy where a disaffected mortal working for a weird group that knows exactly enough to be dangerous about the coming apocalypse works with an angel and some demons/fallen angels who've gotten attached to this whole "Earth" thing to try and stop Armageddon, and also there's a mortal Antichrist who has no idea what he's getting into. There's even a bunch of references to bands that were big in the 70s, and one of the angels has a classic car that explodes. Sadly it comes off way more as a ripoff than an homage.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on April 22, 2017, 07:35:49 PM
Book 8 - J.R.R. Tolkein - The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

Remarkably, I have never actually read the Lord of the Rings before, so I decided that this is the year. Extremely good book with some fantastic setting and character work, and engaging and enjoyable from beginning to end. Despite being the genre setter in many ways, it has a couple of things about it that I think work to its great advantage relative to many other books in the genre. I think Frodo is a well-written character who isn’t the boring Big Damn Hero trope that plagues many newer fantasy novels; his strengths lie in his thoughtfulness and morality rather than in his fighting ability, and he is never portrayed in a way that really over-glorifies the character. I also like that it is pretty combat-light, as I find that is a part of fantasy that I am extremely bored by. It has some psychological fuckery aspects, but not much hand-to-hand fighting.

Obviously the story has some problems from a feminist and racial diversity perspective, but I’m rarely going to ding an author too much for writing in a way that is in line for his time period. There are some definite luddite and anti-industrial aspects to the story which I’m a little bit uneasy about, for all that I understand the sentiment. I’m excited to read #2!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on April 26, 2017, 02:10:28 AM
Book 9 - H.G. Wells - The War of the Worlds

Ah, the classic story of aliens from Mars invading. It’s not a bad book, obviously feels a bit dated since it was written in 1898, but it is really not too bad. It’s a little characterization-light for my tastes, but the action is pretty intense. I liked its commentary on British imperialism (making analogies of the way the Martians invaded to the way Europeans invaded Tasmania and wiped out all of the populace) and its references to how Martians simply treat us like we treat other animals (comparing their destruction of human cities to boys kicking over anthills, and his commentary on how rabbits would probably be horrified by humans’ consumption of animal flesh if they were intelligent enough to care). It’s not a bad book, but it has a little too much disaster-porn for me and it is quite depressing and has very few uplifting moments.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 27, 2017, 10:45:19 AM
So I discovered my local library's e-book lending system last month, and as a result I have a lot to get through here.

Like a scrub I just found out about this too. FX has a fantastic selection of ebooks. I've been reading tons for my bookclub.  It's a bookclub focused around YA/adult fiction. Twist is that the group is predominately female and tends to focus on modern books (IE Mistborn is a 'classic' to them) so it's very different than my usual selection of books. Still fun. Every single book we've read has a female lead and author.


The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley- Decent YA from the early 80's. Plot's not amazing but the character work is good and it is very differnet from the other books of that era that I've read. 6/10ish.

Uprooted by Naomi Novik- This was legit good. Uprooted's got a heavy Slavic/Polish influence; the main character is partly inspired by Baba Yaga. Setting's good and so is the plot, but where it really shines is the character work. The replacement between the main and her best friend is one of the best friendships I've read in a book, and the main romantic relationship's amazing too. Marek deserves credit as well. He's too complex a character to get into without spoilers but I enjoyed his work as well. Everyone's motivations in the book make complete sense, this is something really rare in a novel. 9/10ish.

At the Water's Edge by Sara Gruen- Ugh. This is set in the Scottish Highlands which is one of the coolest places in the world, at the end of WW2 which provides a compelling backdrop... and it's still awful. Unlikeable cast, weak plot (I call the male characters Angus Mcshirtless for a reason), and the most unlikeable duo in a relationship since Shion and Kevin. Complete dumpster fire. Oh well, not every book will be a hit.

Dreamer's Pool by Juliet Marillier- Much better. Just finished this last night. Set in 9th century Ireland, the book follows a wise woman on her quest for revenge against a corrupt chieftain. Her sidekick Grim is a lot of fun; definitely a dark knight type which fits considering the main character. Somewhat dark at times but that doesn't bother me. 7/10
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 11, 2017, 06:23:36 AM
Book 10-1 - Lois McMaster Bujold - Shards of Honor (first part of Cordelia’s Honor)

This book is very fast-paced an enjoyable, and has a lot of action and love and intrigue packed into a small number of pages. Both of the main characters are quite endearing, and that is really what makes the book tick.

Book 10-2 - Lois McMaster Bujold - Barrayar (second part of Cordelia’s Honor)

The second half definitely has more character work and ends up being more politically intriguing and helps you understand Aral, Bothari, and Kou a lot better. The first part is a little on the slow side, but the book really picks up after the first attack on Aral. Overall, though, a very fast-paced, nice book that captures some themes about both feminism and disability/mental health acceptance. Kou struggles with depression because his disability makes him outcast by society. Bothari kind of reminds me of Lenny from Of Mice And Men, except that he is taken care of better and ends up with a happier conclusion to the story.

On a side note, the degree to which the back of the book spoils the story is hilarious.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on May 11, 2017, 06:39:29 AM
Yay! Ciato now knows about epic shopping trips. ::Nods::
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on May 11, 2017, 08:08:43 AM
Book 10-1 - Lois McMaster Bujold - Shards of Honor
Book 10-2

I see what you did there.

Edit - I like it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 11, 2017, 10:39:55 PM
Book 10-1 - Lois McMaster Bujold - Shards of Honor (first part of Cordelia’s Honor)

This book is very fast-paced an enjoyable, and has a lot of action and love and intrigue packed into a small number of pages. Both of the main characters are quite endearing, and that is really what makes the book tick.

Book 10-2 - Lois McMaster Bujold - Barrayar (second part of Cordelia’s Honor)

The second half definitely has more character work and ends up being more politically intriguing and helps you understand Aral, Bothari, and Kou a lot better. The first part is a little on the slow side, but the book really picks up after the first attack on Aral. Overall, though, a very fast-paced, nice book that captures some themes about both feminism and disability/mental health acceptance. Kou struggles with depression because his disability makes him outcast by society. Bothari kind of reminds me of Lenny from Of Mice And Men, except that he is taken care of better and ends up with a happier conclusion to the story.

On a side note, the degree to which the back of the book spoils the story is hilarious.

Barrayar was written several years and books after Shards of Honor and it shows. Bujold does a good job mixing modern social issues in with the scifi, you are going to really dig the books.

The Bazaar of Bad Dreams- Stephen King short story collection. I prefer his short stories to his actual books nowadays because he has to cut the shit and actually write a coherent plot in them. It's a fun read; the short story on pain is outstanding.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: dunie on June 21, 2017, 08:07:09 PM
Attending one of Roxane Gay's readings of Hunger tomorrow. Kinda psyched, kinda not. I hope I am pleasantly surprised by those who show up. It'll be the first reading I go to and since I enjoyed her audiobook and my own partial readings of Bad Feminist some time ago I'm looking forward.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 25, 2017, 02:04:48 AM
Book 11 - Margaret Atwood - The Handmaid’s Tale

Great book with some great feminist themes and wonderful mystery and suspense. The lack of knowledge that the main character has and thus you don’t have much knowledge either. It works pretty well. The sex in this book is absolutely gross and definitely reminds of what what sex might be like if it were only used for a purely utilitarian, and slightly creepy, purpose. The whole society is so loveless and sterile and it’s hard to see what even the people at the top get out of it.

Book 12 - Leanne Simpson - Islands of Decolonial Love

This is a series of short stories about a variety of things; relationships between people (both platonic and romantic), relationships between Indigenous people and white people in Canada, interspersed with some short stories about spirits and other stories from the Mississauga Nation. At times, a very dark set of stories, but very powerful and enjoyable.

Book 13 - Brandon Sanderson - Infinity Blade - Awakening

This is a novella by Sanderson that is a prequel? to some game that came out for the iOS, and it’s short and pretty shlocky, but enjoyable. It has some prerequisite Sanderson plot twists and lots of witty banter, but it certainly is not an all time great book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on October 08, 2017, 07:49:15 PM
Book 14 - Mercedes Lackey - One Good Knight

Another pretty fluffy and light book about a princess who is not as beautiful as a princess should be and thus is rejected by her mother. The story mixes humor (The Tradition, a set of rules dictated by what is ‘supposed’ to happen in fairy tales) and seriousness together, and it ends up being a pretty good story with some very sweet moments. It has some pretty cute plot twists. I am always a sucker for the ‘dragons aren’t actually evil princess kidnappers’ plot twist which I have read in a couple of stories now. The female knight who disguises herself as a man plot twist is also quite cute and well done, and the ending is very odd but fun.

Book 15 - J.R.R. Tolkien - Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers

The Two Towers is quite a downer novel compared to the previous couple, but it is very good. I think the adventures of Sam, Frodo, and Gollum are the single best part of the series, even if the stuff with some of the other characters isn’t as great (Aragorn always makes everything more boring). I absolutely loved the section with Merry, Pippin, and Treebeard and I am not sure why they eliminated so much of that from the Two Towers movie. I think Fellowship is a bit of a better novel just due to being a little more consistently well-written and not having parts without the hobbits, who I feel like collectively drive the story, but I still really enjoyed it.

Book 16 - J.R.R. Tolkien - Lord of the Rings - Return of the King

The weakest of the three LotR novels, I feel like it unravels a bit at the end of the Frodo/Sam/Gollum section which ends on a weirdly unexciting note, and the Aragorn stuff is still very uninteresting but he feels like a very central character of the novel (hence the name ‘Return of the King’). It’s not like it’s a bad novel; I really enjoyed Merry and Pippin’s points of view, and Denthor is a weirdly effective semi-antagonist of that book, but it could have been done better. I am not sure how much I liked the post-Sauron stuff with Saramun either; it felt weirdly short and anticlimactic.

Book 17 - Ray Bradbury - Fahrenheit 451

I can definitely see why this book is well-received, and I did enjoy its themes of anti-intellectualism and book burning, but it feels very old and reinforces stereotypes about women that they are vacuous and only think about stupid, unimportant things while the men of the story are the movers and the thinkers. I understand that it reflects the time that the story was written, but from a modern lens there are better novels to get your fix on similar themes (hi, Handmaid’s Tale). I think the novel is at its best when it’s exploring the psychological horror and mild insanity of the main character, but after a while, the story seems to devolve into weirdness.

Book 18 - Angela Nagle - Kill All Normies

This is a novel which focuses on how the Internet has been used as a force of political chaos on the right, laying down the foundations to which the alt-right has risen. It talks a lot about the rise of Milo as a figure who represents everything that traditional conservatism isn’t, but rather this new trollish, outrageous aesthetic taken on by the new right/reddit/4-chan culture. It explores how the corresponding online movement from the left’s oversensitivity to criticism was exploited by people like Milo on the right for their own political gain (by making themselves the heroes of the anti-PC movement and daring the left to challenge him). It also documents how the manosphere and the alt-right are intertwined (not necessarily one and the same, but there is a lot of overlap). The book does take a shot at gaming which i thought was totally unnecessary, but otherwise I enjoyed it. The parts of the novel about alt-right confirmed most of my worst fears about the toxicity of the Internet while the parts about the far left and its distaste for free exchange of ideas was just depressing. I have found myself no longer saying things that I think around people who are part of the far left in fear of saying something that doesn't fall in line with ideology, which... yeah. (I'm sure this book isn't very popular among these people.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on November 14, 2017, 07:34:25 PM
Binge-reread the whole Wheel of Time series.  Not much to say that hasn't been said before, but holy fuck does Jordan have a hard-on for Elayne.  I think she gets more screentime than any of the ta'veren.

Best character is Rodel Ituralde.  He kicks Seanchan ass while looking fancy.  And resists Graendel's compulsion.

Let's play which Forsaken *actually* deserved to be Nae'blis!  Based on their contributions (or lack thereof) to the Shadow in the modern day.

14) Lanfear/Cyndane:  Messed with Rand's head a bit.  Perma-shielded Asmodean so he would have to be subject to Rand.  Did a bad job of using Compulsion on Perrin.  Last Chance really was a good name for her.  I think she only got a pass because she opened the Bore in the past.

13) Moghedien:  Led a group of Black Ajah that couldn't even win with a bunch of ter'angraels.  Got her ass kicked by Nynaeve.  Got captured and forced to teach weaves to Elayne, Nynaeve, and Egwene.  Snooped around dreamworld a bit.  Got captured by random Seanchan.

12) Aginor/Osan'gar:  Got his ass kicked by noob Rand.  Made an unsuccessful attempt to kill Rand.  Got his ass kicked by a random Aes Sedai.

11) Balthanel/Aran'gar:  Got his ass kicked by a tree.  Killed three random Aes Sedai in Salidar.  Gave Egwene headaches.

10) Be'lal:  Took control of Tear.  Got wrecked.

9) Sammael:  Took control of Illian.  Got wrecked.

8) Rahvin:  Took control of Andor.  Got wrecked.

7) M'Hael:  Turned most of the Black Tower and still managed to lose to Androl and Logain.  Was ineffective in the Last Battle and got his shit beat by Egwene.

6) Asmodean:  Gave tattoos to Couladin which led to the Shaido rampaging across the world.  Taught Rand how to saidin good.

5) Ishmael/Moridin:  Gave bad dreams to the three boys.  Permanently wounded Rand.  Killed Lanfear so she could be resurrected.  Got the Dark One sealed because he True Powered too hard.

4) Graendel/Hessalam:  Took a vacation in Arad Doman.  Compelled some minor leaders but not who she really should have.  Got Aran'gar killed.  Killed Asmodean.  Successfully messed with the heads of three of the four Great Generals.  Got her ass kicked by Aviendha.

3) Semirhage:  Convinced the Seanchan to invade.  Permanently wounded Rand.

2) Mesaana:  Put the Black Ajah in control of the White Tower.  Put a puppet leader over the Aes Sedai.  Split the White Tower in two, and maintained control of both halves.  Pissed off Rand by putting him in a box.

1) Demandred:  Took control of Shara.  Wiped out most of the Aes Sedai in the Last Battle.  Orchestrated the Last Battle, and was beating Mat.  Killed 2 blademasters, third time wasn't his charm.

Some of these are kind of tossups.  Like Graendel was really terrible, but her contribution to the Last Battle was very major.  Likewise, despite betraying the Dark One, Asmodean was responsible for the Shaido.  Which was a pretty massive accomplishment.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on November 16, 2017, 01:13:14 AM
I'm also re-reading the series, currently in the middle of Book 3. Great Hunt is the best of the first three by a lot but we already knew that.


Nobody gets more screentime than Rand. And much as I wish Elayne had gotten more screentime than Perrin, I really don't think that's the case either (Perrin builds up a lead on her in the early books and has a crapton in both 10 and 13 to boot). Mat... yeah maybe.

The ta'veren thing is kinda nonsense anyway, and every time I re-read the series it bothers me more. Egwene is both more important to the books and more important to the world than either Mat or Perrin. It's just a handy label to trot out when the plot needs to do something contrived and one of the boys are involved.


Regarding Forsaken rankings:

-Man, I just can't see Demandred as #1. The Shara thing is quite a coup but it comes out of nowhere (i.e. it isn't accomplished against impressive opposition), and the way he goes out is just so pathetic.

-I have relatively more respect for M'Hael. Both bring a big crop of shadow-alligned channellers to the Last Battle. Demandred's is bigger I guess? I don't remember the numbers. But M'Hael gets more points to me because Demandred converted some neutrals to his cause, while M'Hael took something which should have been a great asset for the good guys and converted it to the shadow instead.

-If you're going to give Asmodean credit for the Shaido, you should remember it was a plan he and Lanfear came up with together. Also, Sammael and Graendal did a lot to further the chaos the Shaido caused (which should also elevate Sammael above Be'lal and Rahvin). Asmodean should be very low unless you feel that Rand learning to channel was a good thing for Team Shadow (and there is a case to be made for this!), but since you also have Lanfear low you clearly do not.

-I know you said "modern day" but Ishamael is the reason that the world is so shitty and in such a bad position to fight the Last Battle. The Black Ajah and the network of Darkfriends in general are his baby. He's also the only true ideological supporter of the Dark One. Him being made nae'blis was an obvious choice.

-Graendal/Semhirage/Mesaana are all good, yep. I tend to underrate Mesaana because she's rather personally unimpressive but splitting the White Tower is a super-huge accomplishment. Semirhage also deserves note for causing Rand to channel the True Power (= getting him close to turning), though since it wasn't deliberate, YMMV on credit there.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on November 16, 2017, 03:46:24 PM
Yeah I included negative points along with positive.

I feel the Shaido were a pretty major disruption to the world, second only to the Seanchan.  Rand couldn't even stop them; it took Perrin and the Seanchan to do so.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on November 17, 2017, 02:54:59 AM
Egwene's not really a relevant character in the books until about halfway through. She matters a huge amount late, but early on she's just kind of there.  The entire point of the first half of the series is to get her trained by every faction but the white tower; she just sort of floats along in 5-6 until she becomes the head of the rebel faction  Nynaeve matters more to the story earlier than later; she fades in the background as Egwene comes to the forefront. She also finishes her character arc the earliest of the main characters, which makes sense considering she's the oldest and settles down with Lan in Book 7.


Moridin's the best of them for impact by far, but the strongest things he does in the series are before Rand or are off camera. The most effective of the Forsaken in books is Mesaana, just for the White Tower split and the damage she did to Rand's sanity. Rand was already the strongest channeler in the series by book 5; the way to hurt him was damage his mind and not go at him with the one power.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on November 17, 2017, 09:33:47 PM
Oh I forgot, Wheel of Time drinking game:

Drink every time a woman is referred to as "handsome".
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on December 12, 2017, 02:14:12 AM
Ahhhhhhh you guys digging up old needles.  I don’t have time for a reread but maybe it is time to do it then actually read that last book.

Ta’Veren do not have to change the world themselves.  They impact the Weave, not necessarily events by themselves.  They just have to be there for change to happen.  It can completely happen through other people.  They tell you this over and over again in the books.  They can impact a lot of change and come into political power quite easily because of their circumstances, but it makes complete sense in world for someone other than the Ta’Veren to take more direct actions and have a bigger presence.


Edit - Moridin also is completely and totally a slave to the cycle.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on December 16, 2017, 06:34:54 AM
Book 20 - The Peter Wall Institute of Advanced Studies - Reflections of Canada

This ‘book’ is a ~300 page collection of essays from public intellectuals in Canada about different subjects related to the past, present, and future of Canada. There is an essay for most major political issues, environmentalism, and different perspectives on race and identity in Canada. It’s an interesting read, for all that it is clearly written with a leftist slant.

Book 21 - Stephen Crane - The Red Badge of Courage

I randomly decided to pick this up after researching books to read about the Civil War. It’s pretty short and an interesting read. Rather than glorifying war and making the story epic, it follows one protagonist who initially deserted but later came back and fought. The story ends with a discussion on what is ‘man-hood’. I thought it was a decent read, but not super exciting.

Book 22 - Eduardo Galeano- The Open Veins of Latin America

A novel on the history of colonialism in Latin America. It is very in-depth, covering all of the different parts of the colonial history from Spain/Portugal building cities all the way up until the plunder of Latin America via U.S. corporations. It talks in great details about all of the industries that set up shop in and took wealth out of Latin America and how that has hindered the growth of the region. I think that in North America we are often not taught a lot of Latin American history, so it was nice to read some in-depth stuff. It is a very heavy-hitting book with a clinical, almost obsessive retelling of injustice against the people of Central and South America. Interesting book regardless.

I probably won't end up hitting my goal of 26 books, but I hope to at least get to 24 by the end of the year!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 01, 2018, 01:58:05 AM
Book 23  - Trevor McKenzie - Dive Into Inquiry

I picked up this book to try to learn how to set up more exploring-based labs in my classes, but it’s pretty fucking boring/repetitive.

Book 24 - Timothy Snyder - On Tyranny - Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

“Be kind to our language. Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that thing you think everyone else is saying. Make an effort to separate yourself from the internet. Read books.”

Interesting little mini-book that avoids talking about Trump but is clearly alluding to Trump’s tactics in its midst. It outlines a lot of things that 20th Century despots do and how we can avoid falling into those same traps. Pretty decent.

Book 25 - Kate Bornstein - A Queer and Pleasant Danger

Very interesting book about a trans woman and former Scientologist. It outlines some of the weirder things about Scientology and exposes how being a pretty high up person in that organization was. I was very interested the intimate look into what makes gender dysphoria/transphobia as so triggering for suicidal thoughts for trans women. The stuff about S&M and living as a sex slave, however, I found a little creepy and I skipped most of it.

I also tried reading Dune, but I found the abrupt POV change / third person omniscient to be kind of annoying.

One off from 26. Ah well. Next year?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 01, 2018, 03:22:02 AM
The five books that I liked the most this year:

5. J.R.R. Tolkien - The Two Towers: I really had a good time with this book and I can really see why the Lord of the Rings series is a classic. Pretty much every part of the book involving any of the hobbits was intriguing. I especially loved Sam, Frodo, and Gollum’s scenes. Compared to the movie Two Towers, which overemphasizes battles and de-emphasizes relationships and Treebeard, I think that the book is a huge improvement. Plus, more Saramun, which is a treat. I also really liked the beginning with Boromir’s death and the aftermath of that.

4. Lois McMaster Bujold – Barrayar: It’s a nice, fast-paced, politics-based sci-fi book with complicated relationships, romance, and lots of action and tension. It has a great final act and has a cast of compelling, loveable characters. I plan to read Young Miles next year.

3. Elie Wiesel – Night: I consider myself someone pretty knowledgeable about the Holocaust, having gone to the Holocaust museum in D.C. as well as having read extensively about it, but this book gave a lot of insight on what it was like on the inside of Auschwitz and what it was like to be removed from your family and to struggle to survive in a concentration camp and the different people that he met there. It’s a really informative, well-written book and is pretty short. Well worth the read!

2. J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of the Ring: I think that the book is pretty similar in quality to The Two Towers overall, but Frodo is in the whole book instead of just parts of the book, and since I feel that Frodo is the series’ strongest character, I think that is a great benefit to the story. I really enjoyed the building tension in the story and I think that its setting work (even if some people call it plodding and boring) is really a great part of the book and sets up the rest of the series to be an enjoyable experience as well.

1. Margaret Atwood – The Handmaid’s Tale: This book is an all-time favorite. It explores religious fundamentalism as a vector of female oppression, and explores the gender politics and dynamics of the new society in a very real, relatable way. I think the story builds interest and tension more and more just by the opaque nature of the story and the lack of knowledge of the protagonist. Fred is an interesting character in the story that you are never sure how to feel about, and some of the reveals involving the main character’s former husband are also quite interesting. Thumbs up!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 07, 2018, 09:34:22 PM
New year, new list.

1. John Norwich - Absolute Monarchs

Cid threw this out as a good book to read in chat. I’ve been perpetually in the middle of writing a novella that centers around a theocratic government, so a book about the real life version of that was something that I wanted to read. Overall? Very long but very interesting, and it sheds a lot of light on a point in history that I wasn’t really that aware of - pretty much everything in European / Turkish history from the Roman Empire to the French Revolution. If you are interested in reading a long book about the juicy ups and downs of the papacy, it’s a good one. The author is not as fond of John Paul II as I was expecting, and overall seems to have limited respect for the Catholic Church. I wouldn’t say it is an unfair portrayal, but the rampant nepotism that existed in the church for so long is a little alarming. To their credit, they got rid of most of the excesses of that by the 20th century, but obviously they made some blunders in the 20th century in both WWI (by kind of sitting by and letting it happen) and WWII (letting anti-Semitism go unabated due to their own anti-Semitic leanings). Inquisition and Crusades are both particularly ridiculous and totally destructive and unnecessary.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on January 12, 2018, 04:10:22 AM
2. Christopher Browning - Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland

Much like last year, I decided to read a book about the Holocaust. This one is a little bit different than Night; it is less about the victims of the Holocaust and more of an analysis of the reasons why ordinary people ended up being complicit in and participating in the Final Solution.

The book is divided into the first part, which is primarily reporting the (mis)deeds of Reserve Police Battalion 101 in Poland in the 1940’s. They were the equivalent of our National Guard, and because all of the real soldiers were in Russia, the reserves were recruited to participate in Operation Reinhard, which was the extermination of Jews in Poland. At first, many of these men were very reluctant to participate in shooting of civilians in villages, but as the job became more abstract (they were primarily in charge with guarding the trains to Treblinka, which was the deadliest death camp during WWII) and as they became more callous and used to the job, even ‘ordinary men’ placed their part as the workforce of genocide. It outlines several different events and shows different perspectives, ranging from people who mercilessly killed to people who actively avoided taking part in the killing.

The second part of the book asks why? Obviously having the facts and understanding what these people did is important to the analysis. These people weren’t huge Nazi fanboys or anything; the reserve police force, if anything, was home to some of the less fanatical people compared to the SS and SA. But yet, they participated anyway. The book concludes that a lot of the reason is the peer pressure of feeling ‘ashamed’ to leaving such a grizzly task to their friends and comrades, and it spirals from there. Obviously Nazi propaganda is also a part of it, but the author argues that the Nazi propaganda from afar was not the primary reason. He cites the studies done in psychology about electric shocks, and how people were more likely to be harsh if other people had done it first. After a while, these people largely accepted their roles as butchers, and some of them had latent sadism come up in their actions. His conclusion from all of this is that most humans are capable of great evil given the circumstances.

One interesting part was the interviews conducted on the members of the police battalion 25 years after the war. Many of them had very little or incorrect recollections of what had happened, and interestingly, when asked about the relationship between the Germans and Poles and the relationship between the Germans and Jews, they were very reluctant to ‘rat out’ their own for being evil and rarely expressed any overt anti-Semitism. However, when they were asked about the relationship between the Poles and the Jews, they were extremely detailed in their condemnation of Poles. The author speculated that they wanted to share the blame from their own misdeeds by saying that the Poles were bad too.

The last part of the book, which is an afterword, discusses the controversy that surrounded his book and how a researcher who opposed his views wrote a book about the unique German nature of virulent anti-Semitism. The author disagreed with that assessment, citing members of the reserve police that were from Luxembourg as well as the brutal treatment of Jews in Hungary and Romania. It is easier to believe that there is a uniqueness to the evils behind the Final Solution than to believe that evil lies within us.

I found the book extremely informative and thoughtful.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 17, 2018, 01:10:38 AM
Milgram strikes again. And yeah that sounds pretty on point with what I've read and studied as well, Ciato.


I recently read A Wrinkle in time. I might have read it as a kid, but I would have forgotten about it completely. Anyway, finished the book for my book club. It was pretty good. It's very much a children's book but a good one. It is very influnced by the age it's written in. The big villain was definitely a scary authortarian government (IE Communism) that controlled everything.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on February 17, 2018, 02:21:23 AM
A Wrinkle in Time and its three sequels about Meg and/or her siblings were some of my favourite books as a pre-teen. Wrinkle in Time definitely has the most memorable antagonistic force as you note; it is obviously an analogue for hard-authoritarian (communist) government but it's a pretty effective one. One of my secret eye-popping moments playing DDS was getting to Bat's boss form (Camazotz) and discovering it was named after them (or rather that both were named after a Mayan god).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on February 17, 2018, 02:50:40 AM
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/statistical-analysis-wheel-time/
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on March 25, 2018, 05:52:48 AM
*looks at topic*  Nobody is talking about Oathbringer yet.  Super losing his mojo.

Oathbringer:  It is a Brandon Sanderson.  It is mostly about Dalinar's backstory.  Dalinar eating a steak is the greatest thing Sanderson has ever written.

Shallan POVs were annoying to read.  Her conversation with Wit is like reading two topics from r/iamverysmart.

Would have liked some Renarin POV.  He barely exists in this book.

Ending was great.  "Maybe it's time for someone to save you."

Not sure how many books Sanderson plans to write, but this feels about 60% done.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 27, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
3. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - The Gulag Archipelago (Abridged)

We read about Hitler, now let’s talk about his Soviet twin Stalin. The Gulag Archipelago, unlike the last book which is well-researched but done by a classic historian, this book is written by a survivor of the gulag and cobbled from first-person accounts of others also in the gulag. He actually had to hide his manuscripts and one of the original copies was actually taken by the KGB, but by hiding it in the house of an Estonian friend who had also been in the gulag previously, he was able to release the book in France (although he wanted it to be published in Russian). He was exiled from Russia for the crime of telling the truth. The Abridged version is about 1/2 or so of the original length? Not sure.

Despite my introduction to this review, this book goes through pains to outline Lenin’s role in gulag culture. While the post-WWII gulag’s enormity was definitely Stalin’s creation, Lenin was the person who originally implemented them in Russia, mostly as a place to hold political enemies and other inconvenient people. Actually, the idea of the labor camp was articulated by Marx in his work as well. The gulag can be traced back to the beginning of communism. However, it was popular in post-Stalin Russia to say that all of the horrible things that happened were just Stalin’s fault, when the truth was that many involved were complicit.

The author was put in a gulag in 1945. He was taken off the front line of the war for writing anti-government things in his letters to a friend who was also fighting in the war. The gulag was full of different types of folks; people who didn’t like communism, people who were Volga Germans, Estonians, Latvians, etc etc, as well as sometimes people who arbitrarily pissed off the gulag people. There was a law that was so broad in its scope that you could be arrested for almost anything called Article 58. In some ways, the most horrifying thing was that they sent many many POWs from WWII to gulags, because they feared their ‘westernization’. It is very interesting that Soviet Russia was so afraid of the introduction of alternate ideas to their country. And often, people were just thrown in to meet quotas. They would also extend the stay in the gulag for no real reason.

In some ways the book feels very… caught in the minutiae of life in the gulag, but the point was of course to expose the horror that was the gulag, following the story from the 42! torture methods of the gulag to the prison to the journey to labor camp to the labor camp. Which is simultaneously kind of tedious but also accents the arduousness of the journey. His commentary on the lack of efficacy of the hunger strike was one of the randomly interesting parts of the book. Previously, in tsarist Russia, people went on hunger strikes to emphasize the horrors of prison (which the author thinks was quite hilariously wussy compared to the gulag). In the gulag, however, no one knows where you are or gives a shit because the government hides all of the facilities, so the hunger strike is completely pointless.

The other part of the book that is quite fascinating is the commentary on life outside of the gulag, where people spent most of their time in constant fear of surveillance and constant vigilance against their neighbors. It created a culture where no one truly trusted one another, not even their family members and their spouses.

The author pretty much skewers everyone involved, but points out that, again, Russia is not a unique place where bad things happen, but that the culture built to devalue human life could happen anywhere.

No one seems to be certain, but the estimates are that up to 60 million people were imprisoned in the gulag during the system’s time.

4. Brandon Sanderson - Edgedancer

A light, fun romp, in contrast to the previous book. The main character is a crazy thief girl and she has a magical companion named Wyndle. The story sets up some nice character work for a couple of characters in Stormlight Archive, as well as just exposing what is going on outside of the main country where most of the action happens in the main series. Interesting little book, nothing too deep but I finished it pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on March 27, 2018, 03:29:22 PM
*looks at topic*  Nobody is talking about Oathbringer yet.  Super losing his mojo.

I'm sure more people will talk about it when a version of the book comes out that isn't the physical size of a housecat. *armcross*
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on March 27, 2018, 09:24:20 PM
It weighs considerably more than a housecat.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Grefter on March 27, 2018, 10:25:11 PM
I Will Be Gone In the Dark -  so my twitter feed was getting spammed about this because I follow Patton and had been avoiding letting myself pick it up just out of exposure.  Then there was excerpts posted.   It is really well written stuff  so eh I was sick on Monday so let’s get a book.  Highly recommend  it as they have done an amazing job of stitching together the loose threads of a nearly finished book about searching for a still unidentified serial murderer and rapist from the 70s-80s.  It slips in and out of documenting historical events to her recent investigations both on her own time and with former and current investigators on theirs.

I don’t normally do True Crime stuff for various reasons but this is really gentle and caring for the victims, very fair on the police investigations, very in-depth on its analysis but doesn’t wallow in gore porn.  It will spook the shit out of you but isn’t fear mongering.   A really fascinating read and a terrible shame she passed at a young age.


Esit - oh yeah and it is sappy as fuck but that doesn’t hurt it
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 28, 2018, 12:12:43 PM
Re Sanderson: I still need to pick it up but I need to reread the previous books in the series. I like stormlight but it's a lot of work. And Gulag Archipeligo's a tough read. Definitely worth the time though.


I just finished reading the first 15 lives of Harry August and enjoyed it.  Concept is straightforward (Certain people are reborn over and over in the same life and remember everything), feels inspired a little by Groundhogs day.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on March 28, 2018, 09:55:51 PM
Thirding that Gulag Archipelago is a bracing and brutal but worthwhile read. I tried to read a couple of his forays into fiction and couldn't get into it, though.

Currently just rereading Discworld books, specifically running all the Watch novels.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on March 29, 2018, 04:02:04 PM
Okay I'll go ahead and post my spoiler thoughts for Oathbringer while it's still fresh in my head.  Major spoilers for Oathbringer and Cosmere in general follow.

So the major reveal this book is that the Parshendi are the native race of the world and the humans are the "Voidbringers" who came from another world.  The question is, which world?  I noticed a lot of verbal anachronisms in this book that are only relevant to the real world.  At first I chalked it up to a writing mistake that the editors didn't catch, but it happens often enough that I think it may be intentional.  Did the humans come from Earth?  Supposedly they brought their strange powers (surges) with them.  So did the Parshendi learn these surges from them?

It's also possible they came from the Mistborn world.  Allomancy and Feruchemy are casually namedropped at the very end of the book.  But if so, why do they use surges instead of allomancy?

Another recurring theme in Cosmere is that there are "gods" and that they are mortal in their own way (and seem to all be mortals who ascended to godhood).  Stormlight has three gods, Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.  Honor is dead, and probably came to the world with the Voidbringers.  Odium hates the humans, and uses the Parshendi to fight them.  However he has no love for the Parshendi either and just uses them as tools.  Could Odium actually be Ruin, escaped from the Mistborn world after being defeated?

Also interesting to note is that there are honorspren and voidspren, but also cultivationspren.  Wyndle being the notable example.  Are all spren just concepts and then molded by various forces into what they need?  We see that they can be changed in this book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 14, 2018, 12:16:28 PM
Oof I should read Oathbringer but gods above is it a massive investment in terms of time and energy. Maybe later.

Just read Wool by Hugh Howey.  Very dark book but fun, does a great job as both a scifi piece and as sociological commentary.  The book starts in a society where everyone lives in a 100 + story underground silo; people have moved underground because the world is not habitable for humans.   It reminds me of Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter in terms of style (Underground society where the powerful live closer to the top). Just finished it, going to read the next two in the series.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 18, 2018, 09:10:47 PM
5. Tony Judt - Postwar

Very long, very detailed history book on the history of two parallel dimensions after WWII - Western Europe and Eastern Europe. It talks about how Eastern Europe in many ways was betrayed by the West - particularly Poland, who ended up under Soviet control after WWII despite their fierce objections and their supposed alliance with Britain and France. It goes through the ups and downs of Western Europe during that time; student protests, resistance to colonialism, but all of the self-perceived trauma of Western European culture and their fear of American culture seeping into their value system is juxtaposed with the more visceral  and violent reality of Eastern Europe, including the Prague Spring and the Hungarian Revolution.

The book was careful to talk about all of the different parts of Europe at least a little bit, but the major players were more prominent, as you might expect. The book ended with a long discussion of the Yugoslav War and its disastrous effects on that part of the world, as well as the rise of Viktor Orban and Islamaphobia in modern Europe.

6. Neil Degrasse Tyson - Astrophysics for People in a Hurry

A quick science read, this book is fast-paced and engaging and can keep the layperson to astrophysics entertained. I think that a bit of a scientific knowledge is good to have before reading it though. It talks mostly about the composition of the stars,the formation of the universe, and Einstein and others’ work in postulating the existence of dark matter and dark energy, both of which very little is known about but compose the majority of the universe. At the end, it discusses the philosophy that talk about the smallness of earth makes people depressed, versus the reality which is that people just think it’s really damn cool.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on May 23, 2018, 05:54:44 AM
Ciato: So what does Judt recommend the West "should" have done?  One of those possession is 9/10 of the law things, Poland had Soviet tanks sitting in it at the time.  The "West" did politely ask that the original Polish government that allied with the West be restored, but the Soviets would have had no reason to allow that since that government damn well remembered that the Soviets had allied with the Nazis to invade Poland, and had (still!) stolen part of Polish land, even if they then stole some compensatory German land to "make up" for it.  So, short of starting World War III, seems difficult to imagine what the right fix is.  Really the best option in the realm of alternate history would have been to end the war faster on the Western Front, where the Allies head east after Normandy immediately to Germany in 1944 and invade to force Hitler's government to fall, rather than finishing up in France then attacking Germany in 1945, IMO...  there's some salty comments that Eisenhower passed up a golden opportunity to do this.

Anyway...

Redshirts
I think LadyDoor mentioned this back when it came out in 2012, and Scalzi got discussed in passing on IRC a month or so ago.  Finally read this last week.  It's pretty much exactly what you'd expect, which is pretty good.  It did win a Hugo after all.  It's a funny novel that isn't, like, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy level crazy - it's actually attempting to make sense of the impossible, and what it would really imply in a world where dopey sci-fi tropes happened where the reader/viewer/player would get bored by a briefing mission about the dangers of XYZ, and would rather have it directly demonstrated by having some extra die horribly.  As someone who both likes taking the "collateral damage" in stories seriously, as well as more generally trying to puzzle out some vaguely rational explanation for what could possibly explain dumb plot twist XYZ, this book was definitely up my alley.  It's nice & short too - very quick read, only took 2 days.

There's a pretty good interview with the author here for a sense of the book:
https://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156669439/writer-puts-expendable-redshirts-in-the-spotlight

Also note that despite John Scalzi being the evil Pope of SJWism according to the Sad Puppies later, this book really doesn't qualify.  It's not about an agender mixed race protagonist attempting to overthrow a thinly disguised metaphor for European imperialism or anything (if you WANT that, check out Ancillary Justice, of course), it's exactly the kind of crazy adventure that the Sad Puppies theoretically want.  But I guess they really don't like his pithy blog posts.  Well sucks to be them I guess.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on May 24, 2018, 12:15:39 AM
I might have slightly misphrased that. From Poland's perspective, they were betrayed by the west. He pretty much agreed with your conclusion that it was hard for the West to take action in that circumstance.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 02, 2018, 03:22:22 PM
Flowers for Vashnoi- Vorkosigan short story. Enrique was a fun character to revisit and it was neat enough even if I'm not a huge fan of Kat. Related: Why is it that the most unquestionably positive mental image you get of Piotr in the series remains from freaking Cordelia?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on June 02, 2018, 09:56:01 PM
Flowers for Vashnoi- Vorkosigan short story. Enrique was a fun character to revisit and it was neat enough even if I'm not a huge fan of Kat. Related: Why is it that the most unquestionably positive mental image you get of Piotr in the series remains from freaking Cordelia?

I enjoyed it. Not fantastic, but very solid which is welcome after Gentleman Jole. Ekaterin is just fine when you can be in her mind, not so great out of it. FfV is sort of like her own personal Mountains of Mourning, if not quite as viscerally personal, affecting, and formative as that was for Miles. Seeing Enrique again was great though.

As for Piotr... she's the only character we really get to see interact with Piotr in any real extent other than the one chapter with Miles in the beginning of Warrior's Apprentice. You see all his different features as a person, positive and negative, and through Cordelia's eyes it is relatively unvarnished by a lens of filial relationship or responsibility. Miles is the one who lets Piotr's expectations for him weigh on him. We never get inside Aral's head. And no one else in the series that gets a viewpoint knew him or had a very close relationship with him. Plus you know, he was a complicated, stubborn man who lived a rough life at most of its stages due to repeated tragedies and war, and his redemption to his family came in a time period we skipped over. Not a whole lot of opportunity there.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 06, 2018, 06:49:40 PM
Also note that despite John Scalzi being the evil Pope of SJWism according to the Sad Puppies later, this book really doesn't qualify.  It's not about an agender mixed race protagonist attempting to overthrow a thinly disguised metaphor for European imperialism or anything (if you WANT that, check out Ancillary Justice, of course), it's exactly the kind of crazy adventure that the Sad Puppies theoretically want.  But I guess they really don't like his pithy blog posts.  Well sucks to be them I guess.

I'm only around a month late for this reply, but whatever. If you want the real SJW stuff, read Lock In and Head On. I won't say more because the discovery is half the fun. They're interesting near-future SF crime drama books from the PoV of the inspectors.

The Dispatcher is also a quick read (which it should be since it's a novella that was written to be an audiobook first) SF crime drama that's probably worth the two hours it would take to get through it. I only read it, but the audiobook was supposed to be a great experience too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on June 07, 2018, 11:39:41 AM
Flowers for Vashnoi- Vorkosigan short story. Enrique was a fun character to revisit and it was neat enough even if I'm not a huge fan of Kat. Related: Why is it that the most unquestionably positive mental image you get of Piotr in the series remains from freaking Cordelia?

I enjoyed it. Not fantastic, but very solid which is welcome after Gentleman Jole. Ekaterin is just fine when you can be in her mind, not so great out of it. FfV is sort of like her own personal Mountains of Mourning, if not quite as viscerally personal, affecting, and formative as that was for Miles. Seeing Enrique again was great though.

As for Piotr... she's the only character we really get to see interact with Piotr in any real extent other than the one chapter with Miles in the beginning of Warrior's Apprentice. You see all his different features as a person, positive and negative, and through Cordelia's eyes it is relatively unvarnished by a lens of filial relationship or responsibility. Miles is the one who lets Piotr's expectations for him weigh on him. We never get inside Aral's head. And no one else in the series that gets a viewpoint knew him or had a very close relationship with him. Plus you know, he was a complicated, stubborn man who lived a rough life at most of its stages due to repeated tragedies and war, and his redemption to his family came in a time period we skipped over. Not a whole lot of opportunity there.

*nod* In Mountains of Mourning Miles thinks that Piotr couldn't adapt to him being a mutant. I think that's wrong; he supported Miles growing up in his own way and imprinted his values on him strongly.   I totally understand the urge to look back on him as Bujold gets older; I reflect a fair bit on my maternal grandparents now and the impact they had on my life.


Also, going to the Jim Butcher signing this Saturday in McLean. I'm looking forward to reading Brief Cases.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on June 07, 2018, 10:57:32 PM
Yo I am in need of some Fantasy Bookes for summer reading.  Suggestions?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on June 10, 2018, 10:56:25 PM
6. Neil Degrasse Tyson - Astrophysics for People in a Hurry

A quick science read, this book is fast-paced and engaging and can keep the layperson to astrophysics entertained. I think that a bit of a scientific knowledge is good to have before reading it though. It talks mostly about the composition of the stars,the formation of the universe, and Einstein and others’ work in postulating the existence of dark matter and dark energy, both of which very little is known about but compose the majority of the universe. At the end, it discusses the philosophy that talk about the smallness of earth makes people depressed, versus the reality which is that people just think it’s really damn cool.

7. Ta-Nehisi Coates - We Were Eight Years in Power

I picked this book up because I find his writing style very engaging and informative.  It chronicles… a few things in some detail, but talks a lot about Obama and his influence on the black community while also really offering background about the history of racism. The second-to-last chapter is about mass incarceration and it is so good that I couldn’t put the book down except for when I was too upset to continue reading. The prison system is somehow even uglier and more wicked than I previously thought. He talks about how life-with-the-possibility-of-parole is becoming more and more of a dream because politicians are afraid of being seen as ‘easy on crime’, including Democrats such as Mark O’Malley. Some of the cowardice and race-baiting from the Democrats around this subject is alarming. The stats on the number of black men incarcerated is staggering; for high school dropouts, 70% of black men are imprisoned, as opposed to 13% of whites. 70% is just beyond the pale.

“The Case for Reparations” is the most comprehensive and convincing argument for reparations that I’ve seen. I feel like I read an article of his with the same title but found myself more driven by the arguments in the book with the narrative built before it (mostly about the government’s role in discriminatory loaning practices in Northern cities and the plunder of black resources from racist Southern governments) and the narrative built after about mass incarceration. Interesting to think about how such a thing could be implemented.

I really enjoyed the parts about Michelle Obama and her background, which I didn’t really know much about relative to the more-celebrated/dissected/etc. background of Barack.

The end of the book makes the really decisive case for racism being the biggest factor of Trump being elected. Cutting into the arguments about the white working class having class struggles/rage, he says “There’s no attempt to understand why black and brown workers, victimized by the same economy that Packer (the write of this argument) lambastes, did not join the Trump revolution.” Boom. The other thing that is brings up is how NOT based on socioeconomic status the white vote for Trump was. In fact, Trump got the highest share of the white vote from people who make 50k-100k a year.

Amusingly, the author quotes two of the other books I read this year; Tony Judt in his analysis of West Germany reparations for Jewish people after WWII and Alexander Solzhenitsyn in one of his quotes in the beginning of his chapters.

Funny story: I decided to randomly reserve this book with the Vancouver Public Library, I believe in February, joining a queue of 160 people for 20 copies of the book. I also did a Google search for the author’s name and found conservatives raging about him and how terrible he is. Good times.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on June 11, 2018, 11:01:14 PM
Yo I am in need of some Fantasy Bookes for summer reading.  Suggestions?

The Fifth Season, N.K. Jemisin. Not sure if anyone's talked about her here, but I thought this book was really neat. It won the Hugo for best novel. It does something fun with shifting perspectives (i.e., second vs. third) and characters. It has some stumbling points, but if you can make it to the end then I think you'd also like the sequels, The Obelisk Gate (this also won the Hugo) and The Stone Sky (finalist for this year's Hugo).



Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on June 12, 2018, 11:13:32 AM
Dhyer was hyping it up a while back. I have it! I haven't got around to reading it yet.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on June 23, 2018, 08:41:47 PM
Dhyer was hyping it up a while back. I have it! I haven't got around to reading it yet.

Yes, the Fifth Season is great! Fascinating setting. I do still need to read the 3rd book.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 12, 2018, 04:53:34 AM
8. Roxane Gay - Bad Feminist

Funny, horrifying book that is primarily interesting cultural critique from a feminist perspective. I really enjoyed her commentary on Hunger Games, Fifty Shades of Grey, and The Help in particular; the first because I like Hunger Games and so does she, the second because I have always had a sneaking suspicion that schloky bullshit books are always hated more when they pander to women and not men, and the third because I had heard that The Help was a bit problematic from a race perspective but never really got all the details and yeah that’s pretty problematic. She also talks about her experience as a black female professor, often being the only one in her department and being the only black person in her neighbourhood. The title itself is a half-joking reference to the fact that she feels like a bad feminist because she listens to anti-women rap music and consumes other ‘bad’ things, but it’s said somewhat in jest. The biggest issue I have with the book is that it’s a bit of a retread of things I’ve read on Twitter before.

Might try to grab some fantasy for a change on my trip to Aus.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Hunter Sopko on July 12, 2018, 10:26:49 PM
Grefter has Young Miles and the next book in his collection. Read more Bujold in Aus ::Nods::
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on July 12, 2018, 11:33:44 PM
Already taking it, foo'.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on August 28, 2018, 04:58:22 PM
Stone Sky did in fact win the Hugo as well, so N.K. Jemison is the first author to get a three-peat Hugo win, all for the same trilogy too. They are on my To Read list.

Jade City - by Fonda Lee
Do you like the Yakuza games? Because this reads like those play. It's...mafia intrigue/gang violence with a huge helping of martial arts and low end superpowers. People one one side being constrained by tradition and the Proper way of doing things, while people on the other break the rules whenever it suits them and then hide back behind Tradition as soon as they're called out on it. Internal power struggles within the Family and conflicts between the older generation of war heroes and the younger generation who live in a post-war modernized society.

I'm only about a third of the way through and only stopped because I literally fell asleep with kindle in hand last night.

Also
Skyfarer and Dragon Road - by Joseph Brassey
Gonna bring these back up because they are really fucking good. Felt awkward doing it because he's a  friend of mine and assumed people would think I'm just shilling for a friend but if anyone really thinks I'm the type to shill for a friend if the work wasn't Actually Really Good they can go fuck themselves~

They are "flying ships in an endless sky of floating islands" kind of setting. First one has the crew of the Elysium dealing with an attack on an island by the equivalent of fantasy Blackwater(only worse) and the second one is a murder-mystery intrigue with a heaping side of internal politics of a travelling nationship that is the size of a city as well as a dose of eldritch horror.

They are really freaking good. If you like space opera type stuff at all(for all that this isn't outer space, it's "endless sky") read them.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on August 30, 2018, 05:00:21 PM
Also
Skyfarer and Dragon Road - by Joseph Brassey
Gonna bring these back up because they are really fucking good. Felt awkward doing it because he's a  friend of mine and assumed people would think I'm just shilling for a friend but if anyone really thinks I'm the type to shill for a friend if the work wasn't Actually Really Good they can go fuck themselves~

They are "flying ships in an endless sky of floating islands" kind of setting. First one has the crew of the Elysium dealing with an attack on an island by the equivalent of fantasy Blackwater(only worse) and the second one is a murder-mystery intrigue with a heaping side of internal politics of a travelling nationship that is the size of a city as well as a dose of eldritch horror.

They are really freaking good. If you like space opera type stuff at all(for all that this isn't outer space, it's "endless sky") read them.

Yep I read the first book earlier this year. Don't have much to add, but it's indeed good and recommended, definitely above what I'd have expected for a first book. The primary characters are quite solidly done too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Veryslightlymad on August 31, 2018, 04:22:02 PM
I should probably start posting here, because I read... erm... a LOT. A book is one of the very few things I'm allowed to take into work, and I've gotten pretty adept at chewing through novels during my commute and any time I'm not actually on the phone. Over the past couple of years I've gone through... uh..............

The Book of the New Sun ~ Gene Wolfe
A re-Read of the Dragaera cycle ~ Steven Brust
The Phoenix Guards and 500 Years After ~ Steven Brust
A re-Read (like, my third or fourth read of) The Dresden Files ~ Jim Butcher
Codex Aleira ~  Jim Butcher
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever ~ Stephen R. Donaldson
The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever ~ Stephen R. Donaldson
The Final Chronicles of Thomas Covenant ~ Stephen R. Donaldson
Mordant's Need I and II ~ Stephen R. Donaldson
Nearly 100% of the Valdemar novels ~ Mercedes Lackey
The Black Company ~ Glen Cook
The files of Garrett PI ~ Glen Cook
The Starfishers Trilogy ~ Glen Cook
The Fionavar Tapestry ~ Guy Gavriel Kay
The Sarantine Mosaic ~ Guy Gavriel Kay
Children of Earth and Sky ~ Guy Gavriel Kay
A Song for Narbonne ~ Guy Gavriel Kay
The Last Light of the Sun ~ Guy Gavriel Kay
The Lions of Al-Rassan ~ Guy Gavriel Kay
The entirety of the Malazan Book of the Fallen ~ Stephen Erikson.
The Sandman Slim novels ~ Richard Kadrey
The Coop Heist novels ~ Richard Kadrey
Butcher Bird ~ Richard Kadrey
Metrophage ~ Richard Kadrey
Dead Set ~ Richard Kadrey
The Alex Verus novels ~ Benedict Jacka
The Lives, Deaths, and Rebirths of Tao ~ Wesley Chu
The Kings' Blades Trilogy ~ Dave Duncan
Whatever the fuck he calls his Exeter trilogy ~ Dave Duncan
The Firekeeper novels ~ Jane Lindskold
Breaking the Wall ~ Jane Lindskold
Monster Hunter novels ~ Larry Correa
Son of the Black Sword ~ Larry Correa
Amber ~ Roger Zelazny
And a bunch of stand-alone novels or short series I can't think of right now, as well as a few continuations of series I've already been reading, like the Dark Elf novels or the Vorkosigan novels.

As you can see, one thing I tend to do is latch onto an author and, maybe not all at once, but basically chew through their entire body of work. I tend to have pretty strong opinions about books and there's a lot for me to say about all of these that I haven't found a lot of time for over the past several months, and I'd like to touch on a few of those listed because either the author in general is really good, or the books themselves are really good. I'll go ahead and say here that if I have something on this list, it's a recommended read. I'm pretty agreeable when it comes to books, and it takes quite a powerfully garbage writer to make me actually put something down. (I'm looking at you, Ferret Steinmetz.) The list above isn't exhaustive. It's merely (I'm pretty sure most of) the things I've read since starting my current job.

The most important recommendations on this list are probably the Malazan Book of the Fallen and literally anything written by Guy Gavriel Kay. I can and eventually will go into a lot more detail for my reasons, but the short version is, both guys have some fairly "close-to-home" things in their novels, albeit for very different reasons. There are points in these stories where I have been moved, and while I'm increasingly a sappy doofus in my old age, being moved by mass media in any form or context is.... not something that usually happens.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on August 31, 2018, 10:38:42 PM
The most important recommendations on this list are probably the Malazan Book of the Fallen and literally anything written by Guy Gavriel Kay. I can and eventually will go into a lot more detail for my reasons, but the short version is, both guys have some fairly "close-to-home" things in their novels, albeit for very different reasons. There are points in these stories where I have been moved, and while I'm increasingly a sappy doofus in my old age, being moved by mass media in any form or context is.... not something that usually happens.

I also enjoy both authors, but for me it's because they tell very emotional stories with oblique allusion and excessive prosody. I like poetry, clever turns of phrase, being asked to remember and recall in order to put together why character actions rightly convey such tension, and the vague acknowledgment of the magical aether that supports the world.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Sierra on August 31, 2018, 11:52:31 PM
Waugh, Thomas Covenant. It's a rare book that convinces me I need to drop it 50 pages in. Thomas Covenant accomplished that. (I'd previously read Donaldson's sci-fi series, the Gap novels, so it's possible that I'd had sufficient exposure to the brutality he dishes out to his characters even before picking up TC.)

I have decidedly mixed feelings about Erikson. (There's a long writeup about Malazan somewhere in this thread.) He's one of those authors that can be very good at some aspects of writing that I value while also indulging in habits that I find very aggravating. I proooobably wouldn't have read all ten main series books if it hadn't been my brother's favorite thing in the world, but there's enough worthwhile material in there that I probably wouldn't mind revisiting it in a series with about 50% less characters and words.

I've mostly just been rereading old stuff, myself. Pratchett and Sagan, in large part. I haven't touched a new (to me) fantasy series in ages. Been interested in picking up Elric for a while but never got around to it.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on September 07, 2018, 03:34:41 PM
I'll just echo VSM's endorsement of Glen Cook's "The Black Company."  Well...  that and the 2nd book, "Shadows Linger".  The third book is a bit weaker and takes some strange directions (The White Rose, was it?).  The elevator pitch for those not familiar with it: In yon average dark fantasy world, Our Heroes are members of a mercenary company.  That gets hired by the evil immortal sorceress queen that rules half the world.  Needless to say large amounts of the rest of the world hate her so there's a large and well-funded resistance army trying to overthrow her.  But hey she pays well?!  It's a nice near-the-villain's eye look at your average fantasy war, except the person who's magically enslaving wizards and binding them to her service is your ally, which is a little queasy morally, and you're fighting the brave Fire Emblem protagonist types who are steadily advancing and winning and stuff.  The Myth: The Fallen Lords series was very blatantly cribbing from The Black Company, if anyone other than OK played it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on September 17, 2018, 04:12:20 AM
So I read Born to the Blade, which I left a review on Goodreads for. I'll just paste it here:
---
Overall review: If you like fantasy politics, read this book.

The Fantasy: The spell work of the bladecasting is an interesting concept and well executed. It's easy to follow what a sigil is supposed to do simply by its name, and the descriptions are clean. They make it very easy for the combat scenes to be visualized.

Also, the fantasy element of the world setting is fantastic. There is the magic of bladecasting which anyone trained in it can use, but each island also has its own Birthright, a fantastical ability that is unique to their ethnicity. These two elements combine to make a setting that feels like there should be a Roleplaying System out there for already. Coming to this book from the background of someone who plays fantasy RPGs, everything clicked into place almost instantly, like I'd been playing in it already.

The Politics: Oooh boy. Where to start here? First would be the fact that the various POV characters all...well, they're human. Many of them make some BAD decisions, but for reasons you can completely understand. For some, emotion rules the day even when they should try to dial it back and mistakes happen. At least one character has the opposite problem of turning their nose up at things that SHOULD be rage inducing because of a mindset that they must be high-minded and detached.

And the number of times that cross-cultural miscommunication comes into play is perhaps the best I've seen portrayed in a book ever. It's both subtle and frequent, every character sees things from the lens of their own culture and forgets that others don't see the same way. Ultimately that is something that the various Good Guys(whoever they turn out to be in the end....) will have to overcome to work together and try to salvage this gigantic mess of a situation.

Because what the overall plot is really about...is what happens when in a polite society bound by rules, certain elements decide they don't have to follow those rules anymore(while of course still pretending they do and holding everyone else to them).

Anyway, that's my take on it. Five star book, go read it.
---

I also finished Jade City and it's probably the best book I've read this year(out of all, you know, three of them).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on September 19, 2018, 06:54:56 PM
I picked up Nevernight (and the sequel Godsgrave) because the author, Jay Kristioff, had written some neat Japanese-Western fantasy novels years back that I remembered liking, and the third book in this new series had recently come up.

Holy unexpected smut, Batman!

It's limited but it's far, far more graphic than the fade to black kind I'm used to seeing in my fantasy novels. Unlike a lot of the prurience in fantasy novels, though, the book actually does prepare you for it in that it's a book about a goddamn assassin school and if you think you're going to be protected from the realities of life in order to "enjoy" this, well, prepare to psychologically experience what happens to your bowels when someone slices you open.

So anyway, despite the gore and sex, it's not as gratuitous as it could be. I don't find the details especially distracting because they fit within the story (it isn't sex or violence for the sake of it - well, any more than reading a story about a working assassin should be). The story itself is surprisingly mundane. Well-to-do girl's father is murdered and her family torn apart as part of some political scheme. Girl plots revenge. Girl finds means to revenge and does everything in her power to act on it. Things are more complicated than they seem. Tragedies befall her. She powers on. Also there is some magic. Not, like, Harry Potter magic. Visceral magic, and religious magic.

What really works for me (and did work for me in his original work, I imagine) is what I appreciate in some of my favorite authors: turns of phrase. You will get analogies like you never believed could exist here, drawing on the lore of the world but in a context that makes those strange fantasy words not seem so strange. As you might expect for a book so centrally about death, the humor is off-beat and dark. There's a core mystery about the girl's subtle powers and what happened with her family that pushes her along through the story (revenge is still a powerful motivator for her, but that really can only drive you so far).

Overall, not the best books I've ever read. They don't do anything especially clever with the plot or characters. But... I enjoy the world building - not just for the world, but for the way in which it is built and communicated to the reader. I appreciate the inversion on expectations - there's a certain level of polite decorum that comes packaged with other stories about warriors and assassins, but not here. I very much appreciate, even though they do come out somewhat trite sometimes, the writing exercises that are exposed via mirrored scenes and dialog, and very closely held character and tonal "voices" that tell you what you need to know by word choice and context moreso than by actual vocabulary.

So if you can tolerate some gore and sex, I'd recommend them. Those two things don't dominate the text (it's not some masturbatory storytelling where everything is an excuse for violence or pornography) but they are there in a way where you won't be able to read the book if you don't want to read those things.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 21, 2018, 04:41:55 AM
Dan Simmons- Rise of Endymion. I would strongly recommend this series (my friend was so adamant that I read it that he bought me all the books); very colorful, unique sci-fi fantasy world(s). All 4 books are filled with extremely unique characters, locations and plot points. I was a little worried that it was going to fly off the rails the last half of book 4, but luckily I was wrong and the conclusion ended up being very satisfying.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 21, 2018, 05:24:51 PM
Elizabeth Haydon- The Weaver's Lament. Finale book of a series I've been reading since 1999 (not a particularly good series though, although it had an interesting setup. The main character is such a Mary Sue; one of her character traits is that she is otherworldly beautiful but is completely oblivious to it). The author disappeared for several years to the point where I googled several times to see if she had died. She also used to run a great forum based around her work which vanished a couple years ago (shame it didn't last to actually she her complete the story).

I actually completely skipped the penultimate book accidentally, but it didn't matter since the new book was a huge leap forward in time 1000 years (characters are immortal or near immortal). I thought the final book was going to have a slow build-up to the finale, but halfway through the book major characters start dying in quick order (and one case, seemingly with no cause. The character was just dead because the author said so). It was kind of funny how random it all was; frankly, it was still more enjoyable than the last few books- most of which had to keep cooking up mediocre villains who laid super elaborate but super easily foiled plans, were literal baby-eaters, or just recycled versions of previous villains.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on September 23, 2018, 08:40:43 PM
I've been re-reading Wheel of Time for the first time since A Memory of Light. Slow going since I'm busy with lots of other things and don't spend time on the bus like I used to. Just finished Fires of Heaven, which I now rather definitely feel is the best of the first five books. Lots of good stuff, in particular Asmodean's role, Moiraine in general, Rand's development, and the ending.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on October 06, 2018, 06:14:04 PM
Finished "The Procurement of Souls" by Benjamin Hope.

It's...not great. I did another review on goodreads which I'll just link instead of pasting because it's long.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/2553579250
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 01, 2018, 12:28:11 AM
Finished re-reading the Shadow series by Tad Williams. Definitely remember why I loved the series so much. Barrick and Briony work really, really well as main characters given that they both started off with super defined personalities but also a lot of room to grow. A lot of other great characters as well that are deftly woven together by the end.

High Points
Book 1: Qinnitan's section and the first trip over the Shadowline
Book 2: The Greatdeeps. This is not only likely the best part of all 4 books, but it's definitely one of the best arcs I've ever read. The villain of the arc, the plan and the context make it very gripping and set the stage well for the power ramp up the occurs in later books.
Book 3: The end of Barrick's journey, although a lot of this book was really setup
Book 4:  Yasammez's final resolution. Nearly all of the last half of the book, which was nearly all payoff to slow plot build-ups. Most importantly the Auturch's end. I can't think of a more satisfying or fitting end to a villain.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 03, 2018, 12:29:19 PM
REading the Illumaine series for book club. It's been a lot of fun; it's a YA series but is still worth your time.  It's somewhat high sci fi (Warp drives and wormholes) but the culture and conflicts are pretty grounded in reality. IE: The entire book series is because of a war over resources.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: VySaika on December 03, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
Finished "City Stained Red" by Sam Sykes. It is very VERY D&D style fiction, but still really good. A bit hard for me to stay into because the setting is very much a crapsack world and I don't like those tropes that much, but I'm going to finish out the trilogy for the characters and to see just where he's taking this plot.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Cmdr_King on December 04, 2018, 12:10:05 AM
bell hooks- feminism is for everyone: passionate politics

This bills itself as a sort of layspeak primer on Feminism, which it is, but only in part.  In the main it's really a half memoir, half autopsy of movement feminism in the 60/70s, the various fault lines that lead to its weakening in the face of conservative resurgence in the 80s, how it's been co-opted by capitalism to work counter to its original revolutionary spirit, and how to rebuild it as a mass movement in the 21st century.

I feel compelled to note that the way she tends to use 'female' and 'male' far more often than 'man' and 'woman' is... uncomfortable.  I did some research and it's not quite as bad as all that, moreso that the question of gender identity was... more or less absurd in the 2nd wave context, and that while the movement at that time was certainly highly trans-hostile hooks and most other 2nd wavers who still operate in academia are largely catching up.

So every so often when doing this sort of "heck, Imma go be a better and more educated person" things, I find myself going... well shit, I've been saying this all along but it's all organized now!
Yeah that's this.  The main thrust is that focusing so specifically on the political and on the acquisition of rights and status opened too many doors for the educated white feminists to throw everyone else under the bus, too easy to twist feminist theory into some parody espousing misandry, and generally too easy to forget foundational principles like communion, liberation, and compassion.  Basically, we've forgotten to listen, forgotten to heal, forgotten to question ourselves on all the ways sexism can be influenced or reinforce other systems like racism and class oppression, all that.
Why yes bell hooks is one of the foremost intersectionalist, why do you ask.

But actually the bit where she lays it out thusly is where I really go "it me"
"Early on the feminist critique of love was not complex enough.  Rather than specifically challenging patriarchal misguided assumptions of love, it just presented love as the problem.  We were to do away with love and put in its place a concern with gaining rights and power.  Then, no one talked about the reality that woman would risk hardening our hearts and end up just as emotionally closed off as the patriarchal men or butch females we were rejecting in the name of feminist rebellion.  And for the most part this is exactly what happened."
Loving ourselves and one another is at the heart of feminism.  That is, a world of equity can only exist when we let compassion and empathy guide us, and let love for others be our guiding principle.  At least, that's how I read a lot of it.  The actual book gets way more practical of course, but it also asserts something I find very valuable: the work starts by fixing your own heart, and those who you can persuade to listen around you.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on December 09, 2018, 08:17:34 PM
Oathbringer - Enjoyable! I don't come away from it thinking "wow that was great", it definitely has some clear weaknesses to go with its strengths. But it certainly managed to be entertaining.

The good:
-Dalinar backstory. There's some heartwrenching stuff, which I was to some degree expecting. What I was not expecting was what a monster the Blackthorn was.
-Everyone is broken and kinda crazy. My types of characters for sure. Shallan is the star. The interplay of her personalities and the way she shifts between them is fun to watch. The scenes at the end with Adolin are very touching.
-I dig the fact that we finally get some interplay between the nations of Roshar. I left this book with a far stronger sense of these nations and what they thought about each other. Best book for the setting so far.
-The book has lots of excellent standalone moments, often quite character-driven. Kaladin meeting his family again, Shallan's inflitrations of the Urithuru underworld and of Kholinar castle, Elhokar's death, Jasnah hitting 11/10 on the badass scale, "maybe it's time somebody saved you", "I'm not a prize, you don't decide who gets me", "I don't anyone, I want you".
-I'm increasingly actually kinda happy with the supporting cast. I'm even warming up to most of the Bridge Four members, helps that several (Teft and Moash in particular) get some good character development this time. Except Lopen, he's still a joke character who never makes me laugh.

The less good:
-I really don't dig the crossover Cosmere elements and sadly they're more present in this book than before. Nightblood in general. Oh hey there's this new radiant who has some differences in her powers I wonder how this will fit in with things oh nope guess she's just a cameo from another book. According to the internet, she's Vivenna, who is one of my favourite Sanderson characters. So in theory I'd be in the target audience for this cameo but I still don't give a damn, it feels like weird fanfic stuff.
-I don't think the book sets up some of its plot points that well? Dalinar trapping the Thrill would be cooler if that strange ruby had been properly signalled earlier. Also some of its scenes seem like they weren't editted properly; there are a couple instances where the author seems to forget a character is on-screen (e.g. when Odium appears to Taravangian).
-Odium. Finally gets screentime and he's... a disappointing paint-by-numbers villain. I think he has a lot of potential especially with the reveal that he kinda respresents passion/emotions in general instead of just evil ones, but he himself is just so boring and generic.

Other:
-This book definitely feels more video game/anime-ish than other Sanderson books (and they were already getting there). Amaram might as well be a JRPG boss.

Kneejerk is that Words of Radiance is still the best of the Stormlight books, but this was worth reading certainly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 15, 2018, 06:48:45 PM
Sara Douglass- The Devil's Diadem. Last book she wrote before she died. This is one a off book, but she probably has my favorite one off book of any fantasy author (Threshold). Douglass was normally a master of the 2nd act, but foils herself in that this book moved through too many parts too quickly for me to even call something the second act. Interesting ideas, but that book is a little to disjointed and random in the end.

Also about 40% of the way through Oathbringer as well, but that still means I have about 700 pages left to go...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 19, 2018, 10:42:45 PM
Red Queen, leading up to its sequel Glass Sword.

Post-apocalyptic teen fantasy with the expected elements of romance, slightly less expected elements of magic + tech. The romance is prevalent but it's not a centerpiece, if that makes sense? The main character - who is female - is presented within the confines of heteronormative female romance, in fact it's a major plot point that she's unceremoniously betrothed to the younger prince who she must Learn To Love. At the same time, though, her life ain't about that. It plays second fiddle (though definitely part of the same concert). Instead we get to focus on intrigue, and a character with relatably real flaws like selfishness and cowardice in the face of awesome power and terrifyingly sadistic machination.

By the end she's developed into having those Main Character Hero moments of selflessness and sacrifice for the greater good, but even still she keeps a practical point of view and isn't willing to throw herself away just for the sake of honor or whatever.

So, yeah, I enjoyed it. I'll drop my caveat that I have really forgiving taste in pop literature so long as it entertains me (see: any review I've ever written, ever) so it might not be your cup of tea if you're looking for more of that idealistic hero stuff.

Just started Glass Sword this morning and I think it's going to pull a Catching Fire on me and go SUPER political + romance, but we shall see.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on January 08, 2019, 02:43:13 AM
About 450 pages in to Book 3 of Stormlight. Jasnah has been obnoxious beyond belief in her few scenes on camera so far; other than that I'm mostly just catching up on the story and trying to remember all the side characters.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 11, 2019, 04:22:29 PM
Finished Oathbringer a few weeks ago. Board ate a longer post so short version
-First third of the book needed at least 100 pages cut. Most writers write full fantasy books not much longer than that and there wasn't a lot of traction. Slow build up is more acceptable if your book isn't 1200 pages
-Jah Keved arc was fantastic. Great new locale, interesting character growth and heaps of tension. This is was an absolute standout for me in terms of arcs in books in general.
-But then comes Shadesmar. Simultaneously mundane and ill-defined. I'm sure that this will be important in the future, but I couldn't care at all. At least the remaining 200 pages at the end was a great improvement over Shadesmar.

Biggest Issues (minus the writer not respecting the reader's time. If you are going to have 1200 pages, it needs to all be on the level of Jah Keved or the last 200 pages at least)
Inconsistency of World Construction: Sanderson's biggest strength as a writer was the construction of some his magic systems. This is something that made Mistborn work so well. Having a character like Azure who is a Radiant, but just has a completely different concept of what it means to be a Radiant in terms of powers just makes it seem like it's being made up on the fly (which I can believe here). Semi related, one feels that by the end of this, literally everyone will be running around with powers and it will get very dull.

General Knowledge of the Characters: There are multiple types of creatures that have been running around since the beginning of time. None of our POV characters have the slight idea of what is really going on, and therefore we also have no idea. Also makes it seem like things are being made up on the fly since it's hard to lay effective groundwork. If the characters are basically discovering some new game altering thing every 100 pages, it makes it super hard to believe they haven't already been massacred by enemies who already knew all these things.

The "Twist": Less a complaint and more a hope that this wasn't really meant to be a twist. "Humans are the real Voidbringers" who was forseeable that when it was revealed, I was surprised it hadn't already been revealed- of course, this is the effect of having read the last book several years ago and for some reason there being no refresher. Cmon Sanderson, if you have a 1200 page book, please consider that I don't perfectly remember the 1000 page book I read like half a decade ago. For something that had 2.5 books of buildup, it was very predictable and I hope that was Sanderson's intention.

Also strongly agree with NEB on the hard no to the Cosmere items. Would have never of guessed that identity.



Also rereading Kate Elliot's Crown of Stars. Up to book 3:
--Best feature: Creation of an alternate psuedo Medieval world that feels like it could be relatively realistic in how society works. The big change is that powers between gender is much more balanced in both secular and religious society. Bloodlines are the foundation of their society, so female heirs are actually preferred (I believe that women are also straight up more powerful in the church due to their concept of God).
--Also good: Good integration of magic and political struggles. Magic is potent but certainly not overpowered; it factors a lot into political struggles without completely overweighing them (which is critical because the book has an interesting core political struggle over two rival Regnants basically fighting over an Alsace-Lorraine equiavalent As you see in eventually, a near literal Alsace-Lorraine equivalent.
--Build up: The first two books especially are great are build up, having 1-3 major great events for each POV each book and otherwise setting the stage for those big moments. Book 3 isn't as great there (but still good), but I think it's because there's so much happening.
--Build up 2: Book 3 starts building up to a major event that takes about 2.5 books, but is completely worth the payoff.
--The concept of the Eika in general: Very unique non-human species that adds a fair amount to books 1 and 2
--One bad thing: Too many battle scenes (with the number of skirmishing groups it makes sense, but the Eika fights in book 3 at least feel superfluous. I tended to skip a number of them at the end).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Captain K on February 12, 2019, 04:54:11 PM
Catching up on Brandon Sanderson things I haven't read before.

Elantris: I'd been avoiding this because it was his first novel, so I figured it wasn't up to the quality of his other books. Surprisingly I was wrong, it's quite solid.

Warbreaker: Really enjoyed this.

Arcanum Unbounded: Large variety of quality in this collection. The Emperor's Soul may be the best thing he's ever written, and I also really liked Sixth of the Dusk.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on April 04, 2019, 01:48:32 AM
Kate Elliot's Crown of Stars- Up to Book 5
Parts of these two books I really like
--Playing with time. We see very little of Liath in book 4 (but everything is memorable), but it makes perfect sense in that she's in a place where time is moving much more slowly. The books deal well with playing out over years naturally without feeling like there are jarring time jumps.
--Excellent build up

Favorite Parts of Book 4:
--Alain and Adica. Poor Alain finally gets to a point where he is happy while everyone around him knows that calamity will be the end result.
--Hanna. Hanna is introduced as a character who you think would just be more a background type, but sizes on opportunity to venture forth in the world while really owning any good and bad that comes from her decisions (and the bad consequences really do feel like they could be foisted on others without being totally incorrect).
--Liath. Her arc was really well done structurally.
--Dealing with the Griffins

Favorite Parts of Book 5:
--The general ending. Crown of Stars has the best build up spanning both 5 books and 3000 years, and it really pays off.
--Macabre, but the humanization of the merman. I don't remember exactly how they came to be, so I'm excited to rediscover that in later books
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 12, 2019, 12:37:03 AM
Stormlight 3- FUCK OFF FOREVER SHADESMAR AND TAKE THE COSMERE STUFF WITH YOU

Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 12, 2019, 01:10:27 AM
Now that I have that out of my system, I largely echo Elfboy and Dhyer. I was stuck for months in Shadesmar because it was so boring. Blah. This is a good book but I have a lot of beefs with it.


1. Characters, specifically Kaladin and Jasnah. I find Jasnah to be obnoxious in this book; she is high handed and insulting to the point that it damaged the story. She is so unlikeable that I find it hard to believe no one tried to kill her on general principals.  She reminds me a lot of Eleanor Silverburg.

I've stated this before, but I have a serious beef with the core concept of the character. Making an athiest character in a universe where we have concrete proof of the existance of the supernatural/God is stupid. Athiesm in that circumstance is much closer to flat earthism than anything else. We're supposed to take her seriously as a scholar/brilliant mind in light of that? No.
 
Kaladin in book 3 in particular is much more of a force of will than a real character. I can't put it more precisely than that, but he just did not work for me in the book. I really liked him in book 1 and 2.


The books are too long. Split them up. Journey before destination is cool, but the journey shouldn't be in such giant chunks. The books are so unwieldly that it is exceptionally hard to keep track of everything that goes on in them.


There's a lot I like. Shallah is quite good, and Adolin was fantastic as always. The way he reveals to his father that he killed Sadeas is perfect. The ending arc is great, there's a ton of good plot stuff and as always Sanderson is a lot of fun. But man, the flaws annoyed the hell out of me.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: NotMiki on April 29, 2019, 11:00:07 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-writer-with-a-literary-touch-dies-at-87/2019/04/28/9bf76226-69c1-11e9-a66d-a82d3f3d96d5_story.html?utm_term=.4cdada77bdb2

Gene Wolfe died :(
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on May 08, 2019, 11:39:19 AM
Catching up on Brandon Sanderson things I haven't read before.

Elantris: I'd been avoiding this because it was his first novel, so I figured it wasn't up to the quality of his other books. Surprisingly I was wrong, it's quite solid.

Warbreaker: Really enjoyed this.

Arcanum Unbounded: Large variety of quality in this collection. The Emperor's Soul may be the best thing he's ever written, and I also really liked Sixth of the Dusk.


Sanderson, like most authors, is much better in the short story format. Doesn't have time to get bullshit rolling. Book three of stormlight really soured me on BS as an author, which is a shame.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on June 04, 2019, 03:03:02 AM
Crown of Stars Read- Finished a while ago, but forgot to post. Book 6 is a lot of aftermath from the massive event at the end of book 5. It has my favorite use of the "real world" in fantasy. Each couple of books, the world map slightly zoomed out as characters covered more places. Then finally at the end of book 5, the map flips 90%, changes a few things and suddenly the reader realizes that they had basically been looking at a map of Europe turned sideways the last 3 books (which fits well with my initial reaction that Wendar-Varre had the feeling of Alsaice-Lorraine; the general areas overlap pretty well).

A lot of interesting stuff in the aftermath. Feels like the world was legitimately torn apart. The return of the Ashioi and the little we see of their culture is pretty interesting.

The last two books do a good job at still keeping tension levels high despite the big event having already ended (the Ashioi help a lot there, as does Antonia)

Notable Parts:
--Liat'dano's death.
--The whole resolution, which was always to succsesfully tie up almost all the plot threads in a very satisfying way.
--The "after" portion

Things I wanted more of:
--The mermen! We only got trace amounts. The book did a lot of explanation on how different things came to be, but the Merman never got that
--The Seven Sleepers. I remember this bugging me through the first read as well. This is just a critical thing both themetically and in practice, and there just wasn't enough of an explanation.

Favorite Characters
1. Liath- Biased here- a mathematician torn between reason and emotion is going to resonate. But she had a very clear arc and was well written.
2. Alain- A subtle but intriguing character. He didn't have the very strong overarching arc that Liath did, but it was interesting essentially seeing the construct of a mythic saint.
3. Hanna- Owned a lot of book 4. Unfortunately she does drop off a fair amount after that.
4. Stronghand- Made the Eika really interesting as he was essentially inducing a hybrid race to evolve.

A lot of other good characters (Henry, Rosvita) as well. Sanglant was decent as well, if generally not as interesting as some of the other main characters.

Now, rereading the Magister Trilogy although I doubt my thoughts on that will be particularly fleshed out as it's notably shorter than my last 2 rereads and so a lot less to cover.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on June 22, 2019, 04:24:11 PM
City of Bones (Martha Wells)- One off book I picked up at a used book store last week. Quite interesting. The world is ripe for exploration (for all that it's a short one-off book, so there isn't a lot of time for that), and what little we saw of it was pretty interesting: Desert pseudo-post apocalyptic with some unique (if not fully explored) social structures. It sets off on a unique path basically right away. I do wish there were some things that were better explored (Warder Insanity for instance. Constans' insanity was not very well fleshed out, especially in regards to how it came about since he alluding to it being a choice that was the best of his options then).

The description on the back of the book doesn't fit very well in some places! There was no cult in the book, just political scheming.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on July 04, 2019, 02:49:11 PM
Magister Trilogy Reread- Finished! I feel like most of the thoughts I'd post I already posted several years ago, but regardless...super interesting setup, each book has its own unique flavor while being very cohesive and a lot of interesting little twists. I do wish we got a little more background on Lazaroth (the books said you really had to be guided into becoming a magister, so how did Lazaroth become one with another magister knowing that she was female?). It would be fascinating to see more of the world after since Kamala's relevation would really open new interesting plot directions (which I know I definitely said the first time I read it!)

The Stone Sky- NK Jemisin. Finished this a while back, but forgot to post. While I can't say that I remembered everything that had previously happened (had been a few years!), I remembered enough. Ended in a very interesting location with a lot of unique background. Excellent series on the whole, if short (1200 pages total? God, less than Oathbringer all together?!)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: dunie on July 09, 2019, 04:40:49 PM
Paulo Freire - Pedagogy of the Oppressed
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on September 15, 2019, 03:09:06 AM
Written a while ago when the forum was down
---
Rereading Brent Weeks Lightbringer series in expectation of the final book coming out later this month. In the middle of book 3, but wanted to get my thoughts down on paper.

So, as a primer, the basic magic system is this weird architectural color based magic system. I suspect that it's more developed than it's portrayed in the books, but it's the kind of thing where a Sanderson-esque glossary on it would be useful.  Its specific use as magic as architecture is fairly interesting and leads to some specific concrete uses.

The beginning of book 1 needed a little bit deus ex machina to get the ball rolling (Gavin and Karris showing up in the right place at literally the right second), but once that happens everything flows pretty well.

Unlike with his first series, Brent Weeks is a lot better on gender balance- although still some work to be done. Partially that's just because the Guiles are so overwhelming (both in terms of personality and magic- what's the chance that so many full spectrum magic users would come from the same family?). However, Karris, Teia and the Iron White more than hold their own.

But speaking more the Guiles since they are the center of the story:

Spoilers for any who care. Was shocked to see "Dazen" exit in book 2. Felt like a bit of a red herring to see him go out so early, but it spoke more towards who Gavin was as a person. That being said, in the little we saw of Dazen, he seemed like he likely would have been a horrible person and a nasty Prism.

Kip is an excellent and interesting main character whose flaws and strengths feel fully manifested and realistic (as do his attempts to curb his tongue at least and well as his consistent difficulty with it). Kip and Gavin make an excellent parallel to Dazen and Zymun (Although given that it's one nephew and one uncle paralleling the other side, a bit weird)

Weeks does an excellent noose tightening scenario on Gavin (and arguably Karris as well, although hers is a bit more existential and political). Gavin is basically thrown into the fire right away and never escaped from it. It slowly (and eventually rapidly) takes it's toll, but it's very well done and feels appropriate to his position in the book.

During my initial readthrough Andross drove me crazy, but he's definitely quite the magnificient bastard (but I think knowing some of the plot twists help).

Other Things I Really Like
Tremblefist' scene. Very impactful for a character who was vaguely mentioned before then.
Samila Sayeh is a fantastic brutally driven logical character that I can't wait to see more of, even though she's a side character.
Nine Kings sounds like fun! I mean, clearly couldn't be mapped into a real game, but still.

My favorite part
The Blinding Knife is great. A plot twist that's built up over 2 books that ends up explaining so much about how Prisms work (also, gives some good red herrings with Dazen's prisonbreaks and Bane killing). I love a good well built plot twist and this definitely more than qualifies.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 15, 2019, 03:08:23 PM
Red Rising series- Brilliant mix of hard scifi and an extremely screwed up civilization based on the late Roman empire. Pierce Brown is hands down of the best authors I've read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 12, 2019, 07:54:26 PM
Brent Weeks- The Blood Mirror. Book 4. Finished a while back but didn't get around to posting until now. Funny to see how many of the parallels I described in my earlier post were false parallels of some sort: Kip being Andross' son, not Gavin's and Dazen not having been a polychrome in the first place

Since I'm not sure how intended the parallels were in the first place can't really comment beyond that though.

Book 4 is good. The build-up and resolution of Kip/Tisis is well done (as are the side characters introduced in the Blood Forest Arc). Seeing Andross and Karris work together is certainly interesting. The end to the Paria arc forebodes ill for all involved characters (seems like the two remaining characters in that move are both prime candidates to die in the final book. Kip and Tisis getting on some ground feels like it should spell doom for Teia; its either her or Tisis and Teia will have both a guild of invisible assassins and the newly crowned king Ironfist after her.

Final book was delayed (now coming out in a 1.5 weeks instead of late August as originally intended), so I started the reread that I was most excited to get to:

Melissa McPhail- Cephreal's Hand (Book 1 of a Pattern of Shadow and Light)- Book 2 of this series has my favorite 200 pages of any book ever and the author is super engaged and transparent about progress. She starts with a forewarning that she'll throw you in the deep end and boy does she ever. The first 50-100 pages can be quite confusing as you get POVs that are sometimes hundreds of years old with complicated history (and one POV that is just 20, but it thrown into the roughest storyline introduction I can think of for a main character of a fantasy book), but it does start to get fairly well after a while. Book 1 is a lot of setting up the stage and moving "Players" into position.

The concept of 'balance' used in a book might be a little deus ex-machina, but I seem to remember that it's better explained in a way that gives it more heft (although may not make it quite make sense).

The best use of build-up is the King of Dannym's long running attempt to hold a successful peace treaty, although that's only notable in this book with foreknowledge of what is to come.

Character-wise it can sometimes be a little hard to differentiate between character's personalities (not all of them, just groups of them...sometimes). Serious but able to crack a smile steadfast princes, rascally leches...etc. I'm certainly not mixing up the characters themselves, but there isn't always a great distinction beyond archetype. I would say that this would be one of the shortfalls (I don't remember it dramatically changing in later books, but it's been a while). The other shortfall is that gender balance isn't great (especially for a female author). There are female villains, but none of them really compare to the male villains and the female main character- who is on a relatively even footing with the male main characters in book 1- kind of takes a step back. Even the side characters presented feel uneven. There are basically 5 types of mages; type 1 is almost always female and type 4 is almost always male (although there are several women with the 4th type of magic that become prominent, although I believe the author may contradict herself in a later book on one of them). However, of the other 3 types, two have multiple prominent male characters mentioned, but no female characters (even side characters). This imbalance holds true in ruling leaders and magical beings.

I obviously don't mean to focus on the shortcomings, but this is a build-up book so getting that stuff on paper first.

Of course, book 5 of Brent Weeks is coming out soon, so I'm hesitant to start 2 now knowing that it would get interrupted.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Niu on November 10, 2019, 08:31:23 PM
P5 Mementos Missions - Not sure if anyone reads manga here. But this adaptation of P5 is good stuff. It ties different Mementos Missions together into a coherent story, and has more exploration on character's private life. A really nice read on the back side of the story in P5.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on November 11, 2019, 06:07:36 PM
Melissa McPhail- The Dagger of Adendigaeth (Book 2). Was going to read Brent Weeks first, but smaller bookstores didn't have any copies.

I love the last 200 pages of this book, mainly just due to one fantastic character arc. Kjieran Van Stone is a spy sent to infiltrate the inner circle of a super deadly religious prophet. He's basically doomed from his introduction. He evades one nasty magic trap just to fall into a worse one, is sent to eliminate the King that sent him to spy, is outmaneuvered by people with far more knowledge and resources, but is able to make one brilliant last stand foiling the King's assassination while managing to spit in the eye of everyone who wronged him. Definitely a standout arc.

Other highlight of the book is Pelas-Tanis. Pelas is an interesting character and this relationship is well utilized to explore Pelas' personality, give a fair amount of lore background, drive forward major story points and develop Tanis as well.

In my last post, I noted that it could be hard to differentiate character's personalities, and the first example was between the princes of Dannym. It's evident now that there is a supposed to be a distinction (one is often described as being rash), but the story is so overwhelmingly strong that it may tend to override character traits (it's hard to see a character as rash when that also feels like it's the only path left to him. Everyone- allies included- is effectively trying to kill him, so being a little mouthy or trying to come with a hail mary doesn't feel all that rash in context).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on November 13, 2019, 12:18:37 AM
Finished the Lightbringer series a week or two ago (time is fluid). It was... weird? Not bad. Not great, either. It was dense and though I read it as an ebook I can imagine the physical copy is pretty large - a lot happened over a lot of pages. I was mostly satisfied with the resolution but I did feel like it made a few too many concessions to epic fantasy cliches.  Stakes were huge and non-existent at the same time and no balance was struck. It felt like a very different book from the previous four, kind of like another author stepped in with some crib notes about characterization and world building while having skimmed the earlier books in the series. (That said, the transition between the previous books was moderately jarring too so this isn't expressly a problem for book 5.)

Overall, eh? I'll appreciate the series for taking on some character types that get ignored -- namely the older ones, the ones who don't have or lose their world dominating powers magical or otherwise, women who exist for more than to serve male plot lines even if they still exist to be sexual objects in one way or another, the value of global interpretations of magic -- and watching the practical applications of magic, but I don't think this will be a series I revisit in the future.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: SnowFire on December 12, 2019, 05:16:31 AM
A bit belated, but since I know a few DLers saw the AI Dungeon 2 posts (e.g. stuff in this thread: https://twitter.com/JanelleCShane/status/1202968242286784512 ), I should recommend Shane's book "You Look Like A Thing And I Love You" if you want to catch up on the latest in AI.  It's a very funny, readable book that isn't impenetrable that helps separate what deep learning AIs are incredibly good at, and what they aren't.

Easy example:
https://aiweirdness.com/post/175110257767/the-visual-chatbot
http://demo.visualdialog.org/
if you want to try it yourself, noting that the 2019 version is more up-to-date than the one in that post.

Anyway, I partially bring it up because famously, AIs have been thrown at old Atari games and the like and done crazy stuff with mastering them, but also gotten stuck in weird areas (like AIs who get flat walled by stage 2-2 or so of Super Mario Bros., because they get stuck on a ledge and had never ever learned to go backward.).  It can even be tricky to set up a reward system properly in more complicated games than the Atari ones, where you can just say "maximize score."  One of the cool ways to properly carrot & stick the AI through such games: make one AI a predictor whose job is simply to guess what will happen next in-game.  If it has no idea, it guesses wildly and is probably wrong.  The other AI actually controls the character, and it gets rewarded whenever the first AI is wrong.  So...  death is fine!  But boring.  Die enough and the first AI knows that Mario is going to go up then down then the level will restart and it's seen it all.  The second AI is thus encouraged to explore more and more of the game to seek out unknown levels the first AI can't predict.  However!  Take an example of "find your way out of a maze."  The above plan works pretty well to ensure the AI explores the maze properly.  If you stick a TV in your maze however with YouTube cat videos or random static or whatever, and the AI will just stand there entranced by the TV that it can't predict, deciding that this is the best game ever, it never knows what is coming next.

Anyway, if you think that snippet is cool, then go read the book!  eBook edition available on Google Play or the like if you want to read it on a mobile phone, as usual.

--
On the note of different kinds of AIs - reading Saturn's Children right now and pondering that the general idea would make for a good RPG space opera.  This was written before Nier: Automata, too, but general conceit is that the humans are all dead so it's just robots having a classic Heinlein-esque planetary intrigue romp.  But in all seriousness, it would make a lot of sense for an RPG too in that you could explain much better why Our Heroes are fearlessly heading into extraordinarily hostile environments, why they might be able to revive, and why there might be hordes of enemies.  Maybe the robots were sent as a first wave to terraform a new solar system and are waiting for the Creators to come, but until then, go build a human-like place but also live in it themselves.

Anyway, the other vaguely relevant thing about the book - a lot of Japanese stuff in particular, although it shows up elsewhere too, involves "magic girlfriends" and the like that are bonded to Our Hero for reasons.  The Western equivalent might be more like magical servants, a la Harry Potter house elves.  Anyway...  the romance on this is always a bit problematic since one side kinda doesn't have a choice.  The Heroine of Saturn's Children is basically a sexbot made to be a "escort" for humans, except the humans are all dead, so she will never find true love (a la XG Ramsus).  But hey, screw that, go make your own fate!  I approve, it's a rare way to make the concept work in interesting ways.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 23, 2019, 09:25:37 AM
Three Body Problem- A mix of Chinese cultural history with a dash of extremely hard scifi. Pretty good even if I had to google some of the math concepts involved.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on December 23, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
Three Body Problem- A mix of Chinese cultural history with a dash of extremely hard scifi. Pretty good even if I had to google some of the math concepts involved.

This was a very interesting book, pretty high on the list of "I guess I liked it but I couldn't exactly tell you why." It had the same generally floaty psychological feel as 1Q84, I think because in both cases I was as lost culturally as I was philosophically in the exploration of what the hell was going on.

--

Since Peace Talks officially has a release date now, the re-reading has begun. There's a Facebook group that was started by someone in my Wayward Backers group (a sub-group from Name of the Wind, Worldbuilders fundraiser, and Kickstarters) that's dedicated to this, and discussion of such. It just so happens that if you start now (well, on December 17, but finishing #1 by December 30) you'll re-read Skin Game down to the day of Peace Talks release.

Group for people who have read the books and would enjoy spoiler-y conversation covering the whole series: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2504519489769768/
Group for everyone else: https://www.facebook.com/groups/800762033703721/
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on December 30, 2019, 03:27:25 PM
The cultural stuff I had a pretty good grounding on; but I have studied that period in history. The math, whoof. One of my friends read it and he found the math out there, and he has a PHD in the field.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on December 31, 2019, 10:18:30 PM
I've read a few books since I posted in here last:

The Sixth Extinction - Elizabeth Kolbert - A chronicle of the history of modern extinction and the pursuit of understanding why things go extinct in order to try to prevent it from accelerating in the future. Very interesting book, but a little dry.

The Body Keeps the Score - Bessel van der Kolk - A book about trauma and treatment of symptoms of trauma. Very interesting, and I can see various aspects of trauma manifesting in a variety of people I know, including myself. It talks about long-term treatment for trauma and how to recover from an endless cycle of either rage or being dead inside. Great book, even if I'm never 100% sure how scientific psychology is.

The Ends of the World - Peter Brannen - Another book about extinction, this time about the five previous extinction events in history, how they happened, and how they can help us predict the point in which we will trigger mass extinction in our world today. Pretty much every extinction event happened because of massive changes in CO2, both an increase and decrease. One of the extinction events was caused by a massive amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere at once, making the concentration like 20x higher than it is today, but a massive decrease in CO2 rapidly can also cause extinction events. Because drastic changes in climate can alter the living space of species, many of them die off when it changes rapidly.

Of course, we are changing it very rapidly compared to even those events. The book talks about the human 'wet bulb temperature' limit, which basically means how much heat our body can tolerate at 100% humidity, and that once the surface begins to reach that temperature in certain regions, we will have to start migrating (and of course, so will animals, disrupting pretty much all of the ecosystems on earth), creating migration events far beyond what we currently see. Long-term, water supply will also be a major problem.

Of course, most of us will be dead by the time all of this shit really goes down. Unless they preserve my brain in a jar.

Overall, I really enjoyed this book, and I recommend it if you are interested in climate science.

Educated - Tara Westover -  A book about a girl raised by a survivalist family who never went to public school and was taught all kinds of crazy stuff. It's a pretty extreme version of the southern experience, but not so crazy that I don't believe it. She ends up talking about her journey through university and the process she went through to learn how to interact with the world normally, like learning that medication was not the great Satan and learning about the Holocaust. it was also interesting for her to talk about how she slowly began to open up to people about her experiences, which reminded me a bit of my own experience.

Miles Errant - Lois McMaster Bujold - Another Miles book, this time with twin hijinks. I think... I am probably done with this series. It was good enough to keep me going for a few books, but I guess I'm a little bored of them?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on January 23, 2020, 03:20:10 AM
Board ate this the first time

The Blinding White (Brent Weeks)- Read over Christmas/NYE. For Ashley, the physical book fell has a hair short of 1000 pages. Definitely understand the critique that it felt super high stakes and yet there were no stakes at all...

Because basically nobody died. Cruxer was the only hero and he died before the fighting started. Kip died but was prophesied to come back, so there was no real question there. Corvan basically blew himself up as a diversion and still lived, and contrary to the prediction I made on the board previously, both Teia and Tisis lived (although at least no concept of a love triangle was carried forward). And on top of that, all the characters effectively got a likely life extension thanks to the revised Blinding Knife.

Anyways, it had a good scope and location for a final book, which is about as much as I can ask for from it since final books are ones that can often veer far off the rails. It was basically just hitting character beats the previous books had established except for a few things with Andross (who got a...fitting conclusion).

Could see Weeks writing more in this world since both the Everdark Gates and some of the higher level lore could be explored more if he choose.

The Witchwood Crown (Tad Williams)- Book 1 of the trilogy follow up to Sorrow, Memory and Thorn (or whatever order those are supposed to go in). Also clocked in around 1000 pages, although it was a pretty easy read. Williams is good at painting characters (although in the case of the Morgan, maybe too good since the character is a massive brat. At least its intentional). Didn't see either of the twists at the end coming at all (although one of them comes of nowhere); however, part of this is because some of the character ages are very nebulous.

Unver and Tzoja are twins, but Tzoja seems at least mid 30s (has an adult/late teen daughter), but there's no way Unver makes any sense at a 35 year old.

Based on some of the POVs, I'd be surprised to see this series end in a big battle. Also, the fact that the trilogy title is the "Last King of Osten Ard" seems like an obvious trick. Williams leaned into it way too much (only male heir is a horrible brat, Simon mentioned at the end that the parts of Osten Ard weren't one kingdom before).
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on January 23, 2020, 07:03:02 PM
Since Peace Talks got a release date (July 14, 2020 - the 20th anniversary of Dresden Files' debut), I've joined a re-reading group. I'm more or less reading at my own pace but the timing also varies based on how annoyed I am at having to pay $10 for an eBook when my library doesn't have a copy. Past Ashley was a jerk and donated the hard copies figuring Future Ashley could just buy them again if she wanted to read them, forgetting that she reads things 10 at a time and dropping $100 on paperback books is never fun.

Anyway, I'm reading Summer Knight now (#4) and a few things have stood out to me.


I'm currently on pace to finish the re-read ahead of schedule but that's cool. I'm also reading other books in between. Turns out when I take lunch breaks and read, I polish off books pretty fast.

--

Other book I am concurrently reading is Impossible Times #2, Limited Wish, through Kindle Unlimited. I specify the source because Kindle Unlimited is where I go to find the shelf remainders. When I used to go to the library a lot as a kid, I exhausted their main SF/F section and had to start digging the back collection for other things. The things no one really read, that hadn't been checked out in years. In modern parlance, Kindle Unlimited is that - it just also includes brand new stuff by midlist authors. Mark Lawrence wrote The Broken Empire series. I don't think I ever read it, but I think I got the first book in this particular series off of the Kindle First newsletter that lets me choose 1 book a month of a small selection that I get to read for free.

Anyway, I definitely consider this a midlist title. It's interesting but it lacks the kind of depth that pulls a story up from the "serviceable entertainment" category. Not that I mind - I read a lot of stuff, especially SF/F, that fits that category.

Core concept is it's the 80s in England and there's a kid who has leukemia that is met by his future self and given the knowledge that the work he will do is pivotal in creating the future where he survives this rare cancer. Kid, being a kid, needs his D&D friends to help him navigate the weirdness and Get Stuff Done.

I like it enough that I'm reading it. It won't go down as a favorite for me, at least not yet. Time travel in semi-modern England is, weirdly, a thoroughly explored topic and I'm not seeing too much here that really sets this approach apart. But I do like how it tackles the social side of things, the realism against the surreal, how a precocious pre-genius kid navigates this stuff happening to him -- the cancer, the time travel, the implications that time travel has on his relationships.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on February 06, 2020, 12:10:10 AM
Haven't gone on to reading Death Masks (Dresden Files #5) yet because it's one of those ones my library doesn't have an ebook copy of so I either have to buy it ($10) or trudge down to the library for a phy-si-cal copy, neither of which I feel like doing.

Instead, I finished Impossible Times #2 and started reading The Consuming Fire (The Interdependency #2, Scalzi).

Limited Wish was okay. I enjoyed it well enough but it didn't end up turning into a book I felt like I had to come back and read the next bit of. I guess I just find the story too unrelatable -- I have no terminal illness (or potentially terminal), I'm not a subject-matter genius and definitely not for mathematics, I'm not from the UK, I'm not male, I'm not attracted to women, I've never had a literal mortal enemy, and I've definitely never been involved in time travel (that I remember) -- and that was enough to push it to the outside bounds of entertainment. I'll undoubtedly read another if it came out, and probably something else he writes, but it will remain firmly in the Kindle Unlimited closet.

The Scalzi book is a Scalzi book. I have fuzzy memories of the previous book and story set so I'm kind of starting from scratch, but I am being fed the important bits so that's good. The snarky science fiction philosophy is exactly what I expect it to be. I'm only about a chapter or two in so there's plenty of room, but I expect I'll like it much like I like the rest of Scalzi's stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on February 07, 2020, 10:45:49 AM
Re Dresden: Books don't find their pace and setting until book 4. Book 3 has Michael and Thomas, but they don't feel like themselves until later books. And yeah the Chivalry thing/Harry being a walking ball of hormones is a thing in the early books, definitely a reflection of Butcher being in his 20's when he wrote those. He has definitely matured as a writer and person.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 05, 2020, 11:56:39 PM
Books bear that out, super.

--

I've continued reading a book every couple of days, so now I'm up to #13. They definitely get progressively more complex, and Harry's story fills itself out as one big long continuous narrative with episodic elements (as opposed to a bunch of episodes loosely connected by a central character). Case in point is Harry's relationship to Susan and where that leads. That one ties together the original vampires, the new vampires, Susan, Susan and Harry's relationship, the Swords, the White/Black/Grey Councils, the Faerie, the Winter Knight, etc., into ONE SINGLE STORYLINE. Which basically just did not happen in any of the previous books. Also, that one had the most obnoxious ending of any book yet, what with Harry mysteriously DYING on the last page and that thing not getting resolved until the start of the next book (which is actually not resolved, because that's what the whole book is actually about).

So I'm nearing the end of the re-read because there's only #13, #14, and #15 of the series available. #16 is the one that comes out in June. I'm going to have to start figuring what else I'm going to read. I've put in a hold for N.K. Jemisin's Inheritance Trilogy because I haven't read it yet but was really impressed by the Broken Earth trilogy (plus she's coming to SF with a new book). My goal is to read 100 books this year and I'm more or less on pace to do that now, but I know I'm going to need to pick up the speed a bit in order to build the buffer I'll undoubtedly use.

How do people even find new books anymore?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 06, 2020, 10:40:55 AM
Peace Talks is out in June? Score, I'm getting that for my birthday then. LD: Did you read the Dresden mini stories? The Donald Morgan one that was just released was fantastic, as was the Christmas story set after Peace Talks.


And I find new books through my book club! Recommendations that I found through my book club: The Red Rising series by Pierce Brown, Uprooted by Naomi Novik, The Raven Cycle by Maggie Stiefvater.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Lady Door on March 06, 2020, 08:20:23 PM
My bad, July 14. But yes, Peace Talks is out this summer! It spurred my re-read.

I read Side Jobs FOREVER ago, like after Changes came out, and I was planning to read it again soon. I did read the Christmas story, too, but I didn't know of any others. I'll round those up probably after I finish reading the series again.

I read the first 3 of the Red Rising series. Liked them well enough, didn't care to keep going on to the Iron Gold trilogy or the comics. Uprooted is one of those books I keep seeing but never manage to read so I guess I'll add that one to the list. Never heard of The Raven Cycle but I'm down for anything with ravens in the name. Cool.

Book clubs are for people who can stand socializing. Mostly I just have to find something on the web that catches my eye, or the recommendation from an author I already like, or Amazon's algorithm, to find the next thing. It's terrible, I know.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on March 08, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Brief Cases came out a few years ago and was excellent too.  The Morgan POV wasn't in there, Butcher just wrote in last month: https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/morgan-microfiction-rpg-art-and-more
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 08, 2020, 08:20:29 PM
Timothy Caufield - Is Gwyneth Paltrow Wrong About Everything? – Interesting book about how celebrity culture and obsession with fame has influenced people and how celebrities have such sway on people’s lives and the way they live. It chronicles the rise in people wanting to be famous, as well as the precarious nature of seeking jobs such as musician and actor. It’s an interesting book; for all that the title is a bit misleading.

It does talk a bit about cleanses and facials and other such things and largely how they lead to the illusion of doing something, so their primary purpose is more in making you feel as if you did something rather than actually doing something. Interesting stuff.

Yanis Varoufakis - And the Weak Suffer What They Must? This book is primarily about the foolishness of the austerity inflicted on Greece and the history of the Euro as a flawed economic currency. It talks about how having a currency with no democratically elected people controlling it leads to idiotic decisions that can inflict long-term harm. He was Syriza’s economic minister before resigning after disagreeing with the capitulation of Tsipris, and it was interesting to see his view, even if it was very biased. Lots of interesting information that I didn’t know, and he ends the book with a roadmap on how to fix the euro to prevent more economic harm than it has already caused.

Anne Applebaum – Gulag – I’ve already read The Gulag Archipelago, so reading this was more supplementary historical material than anything. I am fascinated by the Soviet Union and think it is interesting to examine to understand the pitfalls to avoid when building a future socialist state.

Next up is "Who We Are and How We Got Here" by David Reich, which is about the changes in DNA over time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on March 08, 2020, 09:21:14 PM
Melissa McPhail- Kingdom Blades (Book 4). Finally caught up on the re-read so I can finally get started on new stuff. Probably my favorite author for having constant tentpole events. The books are long, but there's so many spectular events that it doesn't feel like a slog at all. Most of the complaints I had early are still present (characters falling into archetype groups, bad gender balance), although I will retract my complaint about the character that was described as rash since the author finally switched to showing instead of telling there. Granted, I'll take large interesting events and just okay characters over the reverse most of the time.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Luther Lansfeld on March 27, 2020, 02:33:46 AM
David Reich - Who We Are And How We Got Here -  - Tracks the mass migration and talks about the different theories of where humans came from, using genetic analysis to try to identify similarities in groups by their DNA. A few interesting notes.

1. Northern Europeans and Native North Americans have a common ancestor, which likely came from southern Asia.

2. There have been migrations in and out of Africa multiple times, leading to a mix of different traits from those groups. They believe that a group of people who lived in eastern Europe / western Asia ended up migrating to both India and to Europe, which is where the shared language family comes from.

3. As observed in the media, all non-Africans have about 2% Neanderthal, which has been decreasing over time with natural selection.

4. He basically nails the coffin for any theory that there is any sort of pure race, since all races are an amalgamation of different peoples over the history of the human race. Racism is trash.

Greatly enjoyed.

Colin Woodward - American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America

This book is about the parallel histories of North America’s colonization and why the cultures that exist within them are fundamentally in conflict. The Northeast, called Yankeedom in this book, believed strongly in morality and community, whereas the Deep South was built on the idea of the aristocratic masters living in leisure while the poor were powerless and black slaves were in permanent bondage. Appalachia was founded by people who just hated all governments, all of the time, and the west coast’s leftist views are a combination of the yankees who settled there along with some libertarian mix from other cultures. I can definitely see the remnants of Appalachia, with a macho, tough guy culture and appeal to emotional evangelism from my experience in Oklahoma. Until this book I never really knew exactly how to classify my home state, but the descriptions of Appalachia mixed with some north Texas culture makes as much sense as anything.

Anyway, great read, really makes sense of all of the cultural division and turmoil in America. He punctures a hole in the idea of a unified American identity, and in particular that all parts of America have a high stake in democracy. The Deep South was not founded at all on democratic principles and opposed them vehemently, calling common people basically rabble, and obviously not wanting slaves to vote. I see this reflected in the general anti-democratic bills and laws passed to try to disenfranchise minority and poor voters. I was always so confused by this until now; they don’t care about democracy and care more about protecting the interests of the wealthy, so obviously they don’t care for democracy.

Next is The New Jim Crow. All of my library books got extended in honor of Covid.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on April 19, 2020, 03:13:46 PM
The Immoralists by Chloe Benjamin- Read this for my bookclub. It was much less less scifi and much more slice of life than expected, but that's okay. Was an intense but enjoyable read. The last book I finished for bookclub was a Rothfuss dumpster fire, so something of better quality was appreciated.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on July 17, 2020, 11:42:33 PM
Peace Talks- Finished. Very much looking forward to battle ground in September. It's fair to be critical about the plot structure and the way the books are split up, but I am happy to have more Dresden. The editing feels slipshod; the late decision to split the book has to be the cause of that. Oh well. I still really enjoyed it.

Small text spoilers:  Justine as the traitor seems like the best bet. There's way too much about her behavior that doesn't add up; she's being followed by way too many people and too many bad things happen around her.  Also see Thomas's reaction to her name in the scene after his capture. Thomas is clearly a broken person there and that has to be the reason why. It could be Lara as well.

The scene where Marone rallies the Accords signees is pretty damn great. Corb's entrance was pretty good in general too. I'm guessing he will greatly regret that course of action by the end of Battle Ground, but we'll see.

Just about every Dresden character is either mentioned or touched upon in this book. Guessing some major events go down/everyone starts to gear up for the final trilogy. My guess for major character deaths in battleground: Eb, Murphy, Thomas in descending order. Sania is possible too. The biggest hole in the story that jumps out at me is how in the hell is the water beetle still working/Harry's getaway car working after the whammy from the Fomor. It's just something that normally wouldn't be overlooked. Also, the bit about the last dragon dying on earth? Michael did that to save Charity back in the day. Bleh.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: superaielman on September 30, 2020, 05:05:18 PM
Done with Battle Ground. This was much better than Peace Talks; everything from tone to pacing was much better done. It's up there with Changes and Dead Beat for best book in the series for action, and it marks a pretty drastic change in tone and direction. Things are definitely gearing up for the endgame now, especially when Mirror Mirror is up next and will be mostly set in an alterate universe ala The Wish from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. After that.. ayep, getting towards the final trilogy. The last couple of books have been Harry growing up. He definitely isn't a raw kid any more; mouthiness aside he has grown dramatically in power and planning ability and it really shows in this book.

Non spoiler: The scene where where Redcap and Harry talk about their opinions of each other is pretty great. The book a good job filling in some blanks; this was a small but very good example of that. The stuff with Toot was good as well. Mab gently clued Harry into just how effectively he had weaponized the Little Folk.

Both of those scenes play into things first established in earlier books. There was a lot of good in the book, but those two non spoilery bits in particular merit praise.



Now for the spoilers.




I loved how the book ended with Molly and Harry coming home to Michael's house. Michael knowing the truth about Molly was a relief and handled perfectly.

The action flowed well, considering how many characters fight during this book.

I want to focus on a couple of the less surprising twists first.

Justine being the backstabber was a major twist, but it was one that the splitting of the book in two hurt. If I had read them back to back without a break, I don't know if I would have twinged to her being the traitor quite as hard as I did. It still made sense, it had emotional impact and it set up a scene where the main baddie of the series and Harry finally get to talk and it provided an effective capstone to the action of the book. It just wasn't extremely shocking like a few of the other twists. Nemesis, eh. I have mixed feelings but it works. I do like that Nemesis directly quoted Nicodemus. I would guess something happened to Justine during her mission to the Fomor in Even Hand, but that's just a guess. (That story in general takes on a whole new light after this book)

Murphy dying was not a surprise. Not just because of her injuries, but because she had served her purpose in the story. It's possible she could be back in some kind of afterlife role; we'll see on that.  The way she died wasn't surprising either but it was still an impactful scene. Just speaking from my own personal moral code, I don't think Harry was in the wrong for being willing to murder Rudolph there. I know it doesn't fit as much with the moral underpinnings of the story and the Christian theology the series leans into at times, but gods above. Rudolph deserved it.

Harry getting kicked out of Council was unsurprising. I am not being critical of Butcher for this; it's the logical progression of the story. Harry's outgrown them in his current role as Warden and it's been that way since the death of Donald Morgan. Ramirez is completely in the right for how he reacted to Harry and the constant lies. He comes off like an asshole to Harry, but his reaction makes complete sense with what the character knows. Harry had a lot of chances to come clean with Ramirez going back to White Night and never chose to do so. The consquences of that were shown at the end of Battle Ground.

Chandler being dragged off to what appeared to be literal Hell was brutal. That was hard to read and so was the fate of Bill and Yoshino. They weren't major characters, but they allies of Harry's and they had a truly grisly end.  Remember Harry's promise to Mavra at the end of Dead Beat? He is going to squash her like a bug at some point in the books for this.  I really want to see the fallout for Drakul's actions, but that is something for another book.

Mab got a lot of character work. Butcher made pains to show that she is the winter mantle, but also that she still retains some humanity and that she pays a price for power. I personally enjoyed it and liked the dynamic between Knight and Queen here. Mab as an endless monster is boring, there are plenty of things in the books that fill that role.  Harry's finally getting clued into Winter.

Hendricks dying was a gutpunch, especially after you get to the end of the book. There's a duality to him dying at the same time as Murphy, as both were stalwart allies to their respective teammate from book 1 onward. In some ways this had more impact than Murphy's death, which was so clearly telegraphed that you could see it from space.

I'll put Listen to Wind and Eb both surviving the book here as a surprise. Related, STOP PUNTING ON GIVING INFORMATION ABOUT STARBORN. Lash promised more on that in book 9. You can't keep kicking that can down the road forever. Though I suspect that'll be the book where we see Elaine next and finally get the reveal on who Cowl/Kumori really are.

There were two massive spoilers in the book that were definite bombshells: Lara/Harry and Marcone's coin.

I almost feel bad for TN, because Marcone is not going to take any of the Fallen's nonsense.  The fact that Harry looked Marcone in the eye and saw absolutely nothing different than normal takes on a whole new meaning after finding out that twist. It also revs up the gut punch factor of Hendrick's death; it was entirely to save face for his boss. Like any good twist, it makes perfect sense when you know it and is still a surprise when it comes. The question of what happened to TN's coin was a mystery after small favor; just wasn't addressed on camera. The question of when Marcone took up the coin is interesting in of itself. Definitely want more information on this.

Not gonna lie, I dig Lara/Harry as a couple. It's so delightfully wrong on so many levels and was the perfect bit of levity that the book ended after being so heavy from start to end. Damn it, Harry hasn't had a fun romance since Susan. Lara and Harry have wonderful chemistry and won't be boring. Also, Thomas's reaction to it will be priceless.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 04, 2020, 10:27:05 PM
The Chathrand Voyage Quartet- Robert V.S. Reddick
Reread this series over the last couple of months

Some highlights/things I really like:

A really great example of that having a physical "location" that really becomes a character in the story. Abour 75% of the series takes place on board a giant crazy ancient ship with all the magical bells and whistles you could want, and a good chunk of the the 25% that doesn't definitely suffers (even if the remaining locations are unique and interesting enough).

The ship setting is used well to the advantage of forcing together a lot of complex characters. There's a really strong cadre of mysterious and villains, several of whom I will touch on in my character section. Everyone is stuck together, which makes for lots of great machincations.

Magic is well utilized. Very powerful with nasty blowbacks. A spell cast my the most powerful mage in the world started to give animals human thought processes (...with a nasty side effect that was used as an amazing twist at the end fo the 2nd book). My favorite hero and villain are both animals.

The key to the plot is a magical hellstone that only someone without fear can touch instantly dying. This is far less hokey than this description sounds

There are a lot of really interesting characters or really well done character arcs so I'm writing this out mostly for my own later recollections. Also, the author clearly knew exactly all the plot points he wanted to hit, which is why some of the arcs are so strong (because he was able to set up integral backstories that wouldn't be revealed for several books and then have the characters act very cohesively; there are a few plot points that I think changed mid-writing but the vision is very clear in book 1 once everything is revealed).

Spoiler tagging these since I think Super would like the books and I could one day get him to read it.
Pazel- Another well done rebellious teenage hero who can't hold his tongue, but you can't really blame him (mouthing off to the Admiral to who overthrow his country and plunged it into chaos). Granted the magical ability to instantly learn any language he hears (at the cost of horrible fits), which is used to great effect.

Thasha- Pazel is the Tidus to Thasha's Yuna, which is to say that Pazel is the main character, but Thasha is the hero of the story but making her the hero would give way too much insight into things (although that comparison sells both Pazel and Thasha short; there's several summoners, but Thasha is truly alone in the world).  She is the reincarnation of the greatest mage in the world (although reincarnation is the wrong word perhaps), but in order to get rid of the hellstone, she needs to let the mage basically take back over and she has to struggle through how to due that because of her innately strong will to live.

Felthrup- A "woken" rat turned scholar. Probably the bravest character in the book; thrust into a situation where literally everyone in an enemy. Also, the relevation that the books are written by him many years later when magic made him into a man for a period was very enjoyable.

Captain Rose- Insane ship captain who is revealed to be tormented by ghosts. Great wild-card character even though I don’t have a lot to say beyond that.

Sandor Ott- Magnificent Bastard character. Always 1 step ahead of everyone else (although more like 1 decade ahead...of your characters at least) except for the characters who played him. Despite there being far more eminent villains, Sandor Ott actually felt the most dangerous because you just couldn't get rid of him, you never knew what his full intentions were (sometimes even working with you) and he  had so many people working for him that you were always in his reach. Masterminded a truly insane scheme: to plunge involving spreading fake prophecy, setting up a false alliance that would end in a bloody murder, tricking an insane cult into attacking an  enemy country and just generally plunging everything into chaos. The layers of which is slowly revealed over time. Granted, one other villain fake him some fake maps, so he wasn't portrayed as some infallible creature. His fate is that he gets to live, but his decades long scheme is foiled and the empire he devoted everything to falls apart. He probably would have rather died.

Shaggat Ness- Insane cult leader who claims to be fearless. Was locked away for decades after causing a major insurrection. Thanks to Sandor Ott, he is freed and finally gets his hands on his precious hellstone…only to discover he has a sliver of fear in his heart. Via machinations have tied his survival to Thasha’s, so Pazel uses a OPG spell to turn Shaggat to stone before the hellstone kills him. Impressive raving lunatic who somehow also brings some parts of comic relief.

Taliktrum/Talag/Diadrelu-Royalty of the ix’chel, a race of 8 inches people known for sinking ships. Hard to fully separate the three. Their race’s goal is to find their mythical homeland, but they have to manipulate humans into getting them there. Talag plants false maps in places Sandor Ott will find them that lead to their mythical homeland, but when the voyage starts Diadrelu realizes that the world is in mortal peril and that they might be able to stop it. Her brother and nephew don’t believe that’s the case, setting them up for an interfamily conflict which has a lot of meat.


Unspoiling here because all must know the greatness of:
Master Mugstar- God tier villain. Appears in 1 (maybe 2 scenes) and instead is only referred to for the 2 books leading up to his appearance. A woken rat who went insane upon his waking and decided that he sees God, who has told him to eat the tongue of the Captain of the ship for being a non-believer. Leads a giant army of rats that he has basically turned into a religious cult.

Lots of other really interesting characters (Neda, Sunithia, Chadfellow, Lady Oggosk (who totally changed backstory mid books but the author got away with it because her initial backstory is 1 line), Bolutu, Hercol but none quite rose to the level of writing it out although the first two come close).

Best Moments
Pazel meets the Egaur- Book 2- An eguar is a nasty ancient creature described as being similar to an extremely large crocodile (or at least having the head of 1) and super frightening. A much better choice than your generic dragon, which totally could have been in its placed. Pazel and several other characters run into one in book 2 and due to Pazel's  ability to understand any language, he's able to intrepret the Eguar's hellish roar.
Master Mugstar reveals himself- Book 2 (discussed in characters, but there had been so much build up because Felthrup and the Ix'Chel had constantly been fighting off his under-minions)
Battle of the Bridge in Book 4- Just a great high-cost action scene as characters are trying to escape a proverbial closing noose.
THE ENDING- This is so good. Pazel is given 3 Master Words in the first book and is told that he'll know the right moment to use them.  The last 2 books he has no concept of what the final one "Blind to give new sight" can do. The hellstone raises a deadly swarm that has almost covered the sky and they are still miles (vertically) from the entrance to the River of Shadows (where the hellstone can be sent back), but Thasha is still unable to let the Mage take over her mind. She finally tells Pazel that it's her love for him that keeps her from being able to relinquish, so Pazel uses the last Master Word to make Thasha forget about him. She then lets the mage take over, and the mage uses the hellstone to drop a mountain into the sea, causing a giant tidal wave with lifts the mage as Thasha, the grand ship and the hellstone into the River of Shadows. However, the spell also made everyeone else forgot Pazel (For a time at least); considering Pazel started the books with no friends, unsure if any family was alive it's a extra bit of a bittersweet tist. It's a touching tear-jerker, but it's also an over the top insane scene that just caps off most of the story so perfectly.

I also read
The Priory of the Orange Tree- Probably just even mentioning since Super's book club had read it. Complete tonal shift between the first and second half ot he book. In the first half, there are some very sudden deaths. Random landslides, executions, assassinations. The world felt extremely dangerous and then all of a sudden, the book basically tells you that nothing bad will happen to literally anyone. Big climatic battle against a super powerful horde of enemies? One tertiary character got a scar. At one point, a character discovers that a lost-hidden mystical gem was hidden inside a scar she had and somehow she was randomly related to some mystical lineage and the gem had been inherited for years this way.

Wasn't great with movement around the world either. Characters would face nasty danger and then suddenly jump over great distances (where the danger felt like it would still be present) off-screen.

So basically, interesting first half, interesting world, bad back half.

Reread of the first two books of the Tide Lord series. Interesting premise with immortals whose power rises and falls with a somewhat bad framing of over-focusing on a love story that doesn't really make much sense between a mortal and immortal. It works okay in book 1 because the immortal basically got himself imprisoned and the mortal is interviewing him, but once he is out it doesn't make a lot of sense that he falls so crazy in love with her given the near 10000 age gap. The mortal character is also beyond beautiful, is immortal catnip and is supposed to be very smart, but can sometimes be beyond obtuse (meets another immortal, literally thinks that the person talks about events that happened thousands of years ago like an immortal...and somehow doesn't realize they are immortal). That said, I can't find the 3rd or 4th book but I definitely remember:

--The immortals have had a tendency to destroy worlds as is revealed in a later book and have cycled through several
--The ending is that after they destroyed the world where the story takes place, some of them escaped to Earth.
--Yes, one of them was Jesus, which is how he "resurrected".
--By the end, several of the Immortals were fighting over the mortal. The mortal somehow was in stasis floating through space after the destruction of her planet. She is discovered in our era and two immortals basically look at each other thinking how after being alive for thousands of years, this one mortal is that special that they will be fighting over her again.

Points for two minor characters
1. Maralyce, an awesome immortal who hates the rest and spends her eternity digging holes everywhere. I also liked this particular exchange between her and her mortal grandson:

"But that's what it is to be mortal. We're compelled to hope."
She treated him to a rare smile. "Then I hope you die young and quickly, lad. Disillusionment's a bitter way to spend your old age."
He smiled back. "You know, that's probably the nicest thing you've ever said to me."

2. Tilly Pointing- Head of a cabal trying to resist the immortals, who paints herself as a frivolous social-climbing fortune teller in order to make it that no one would guess her true goals
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on December 19, 2020, 04:34:13 AM
Ruins of Ambrai- Melanie Rawn

Really should have written this up when it was fresher especially since there is a lot of stuff to talk about with this book, but oh well. Half even just writing about it so Super can make his perennial joke about Melanie Rawn actually finishing the series.

For just 1 book (in fairness a very long book), it feels like Rawn makes the world feel fairly tangible, especially considerating that the reader doesn't see a lot of it (the use of mystical ladders is a great touch, allowing characters to cover a lot of ground to interesting locales while giving a lot of magical mystery). I guess in fairness it's a small world (actually, just kind of one country), but the structure of society feels very pinned down (extra points for a having a massive Census; also, the split that caused how the villians came to be feels very natural with a bunch of powerful people believing that their own magical power has somehow conferred them a wisdom that means they should be able to tell everyone every aspect of their lives).

The book focuses on three sisters, although the star on the middle sister with the other two playing strong roles. Sarra Liwellan is a fantastic character that I find extremely relatable; her driving motivation is thinking about the in and outs of creatively restructuring a fairer society and her relative youth and inexperience is very well balanced by her drive and intelligence (Which is subtly reinforced throughout the book). Also, a well done hate to love romance where both sides balance each other well. Sarra definitely holds the book together very well.

The eldest sister Glenin is also great as someone immerses with the villains, but also resentful and looking to undercut them while also wanting to come out on top. She's nearly as clever as Sarra is. Anniyas is a great foil and parallel to her.

The youngest sister is a bit of a cypher who doesn't really have time to cook, so definitely the weak link of the chain.

This was always intended to be a trilogy, but I never saw why. This book is relatively self-contained. If it wasn't for the villains having some specific calamitious referenced plan (which seems irrelevant by the end of the book anyways; for all that the heroes suffered very bad losses (very literal bloodbath), it feels like they cut off the head of the snake very decisively.

Not doing the second book, which jumps ahead in time 20 years. From my memory, it just reinforced that there wasn't a clear concept after book 1 and that's why book 3 has been stalled for decades. Book 1's strength is definitely it's clever structure (both in world and story), but without that present it's easy to see how the series could stall out.

Best Parts
1. Sarra's speech/gambit in front of the Council
2. Sarra and Collan's interplay especially when they are by themselves
3. Anniyas reveals her role to Glenin
4. Ladders!

Otherland Series- Tad Williams
Because I needed an even longer read after Ambrai... Just started book 3. Otherland is a series about society falling into the trap of living it's entire life online.

The books definitely resonates a lot more after experiencing the past decade. The progression of society and tech make the future in Otherland feel a lot more real than it was the last I read it and I am shocked that it was written in 1996 (not there is anything particularly serendipitous, especially since this book is still set in the far future)

Tad Williams is a fantastic character writer. Even the books that are weaker on characters still tend to have amazing standouts, and Otherland is one of his best (the Last Arden book is probably just as good). Renie is an especially amazing protaginist; tenacious, insightful and protective fighter with an openness and an ability to admit fault (literally how of the characters crossing her thinks of her and it's very accurate). Xabbu is also amazing as a man from a world gone by thrust into the full brunt of technology and further finding the truth in his ancestral beliefs that he hadn't taken seriously. Renie and Xabbu pair together very well because they are both very adaptive and the characters feel like they are evolving constantly in a way that feels believable in light of what they face (which also like a strength of Tad Williams); characters definitely feel fully impacted by whatever is going on in a full gamut emotions in a way that few other authors match, which lead to even interesting little girls or broken alcoholics (even if the last one is also quite frustrating).

Martine is also great from what we see of her. Plays well off Renie, and hearing her character progress in book 2 is really great. Actually, a lot of side characters are given very distinct personalities, which are then grounded when hearing their often extreme backstories. This all comes together really well to illustrate the world.

Book 1 is stronger than book 2 since book 1 is so fresh and we get a lot of the real world and book 2 can get a little sloggy in some ways since there is so much travelling across Otherland (it also becomes a little hard to remember which character has had what epiphany).

Hard to pick out the best parts since the arcs span so many characters and there are so many major moments in each one.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on February 01, 2021, 05:10:43 AM
Finished the Otherland series. Tad Williams book generally have pretty satisfying conclusions, often filled with some level of well built up insanity, and Otherland is no exception. This series should be a classic, but its length definitely stands in the way of that (although there isn't any part that I would cut). It's a fantastic read. As mentioned previously, Tad Williams is a master character writer (managing to have characters like a fairly average child and a broken dunkard who feel realistic, well fleshed out and integral to the plot without being shoehorned in at all; almost every side character shines), and the setup of people effectively falling into an endless internet trap feels very real in 2021 compared to when I first read this. It's funny to see the use of "Neural Networks" a decade before the concept really resurged back (and there's a lot you could say about it's implementation and what real life Neural Networks now try mimic).

Tad Williams definitely plans out everything major, because all the plotlines in book 4 really came together so well and there were explanations for...almost every question the books raised, and there were a lot of questions (I'm still a little hazy on the Circle and how they clued into all this or to Xabbu, so we will call that one exception). Compared the Shadow series which throws in the answers in a very large cluster very later, the explanations were much better paced out.

In thinking about my own writing, what I can really learn from this series is how to have a super effective slow buildup while having almost constant action (granted, it helps to really dig into characters). Some characters just spend books building up to 1 singular major event. There are plenty of characters who are going through many events, but having that broad character spectrum really brought a greater cohesiveness to the story.

Now to rave about the Other, which ties into several points above.

The Other that powered the whole system being Olga's son that she believed was long-dead who had extreme telepathic power, and then being powered by other auxulliary children tied everything together so well, and was a very literal implementation of a Neural Network (which is generally designed to mimic the complexity of human thought). The reunion between Olga and her son, which ended up resulting in Olga getting him get free by...crashing an entire massive satelite into Jongleur HQ was fantastic, as was that the Other had been making his own digital lifeforms, which main characters helped send out in space to keep them alive (also gave the religious Circle a conniption thinking about how it was the literal creation of a form of life). The Other's desire of just wanting friends really was used so effectively and created a believable reason for why basically all the main characters minus two ended up in the network that just served the hyper cohesiveness of the books).

The best part of the last two books
1. ENDLESS! LIBRARY! HOUSE!- God tier location (perhaps the best in a book I've read). Such a cool design: super original, complete with a living, evolving culture that I could hear about forever (cool scholarly stuff, architecture, random warring, bandits, tough roof dwellers), lots of really interesting locations, some interesting fun mystic stuff, and there are some great plot evolutions here (including a very critical fight and when the main characters first start to see the "NPCs" as legitimately "alive"). The one shining NPC here is also fantastic (a well reasoned likely autistic character who shows some great backbone).
2. That! Fucking! Satelite!
3. Renie and Xabbu- Just kind of categorically. There's one great line a character has about imaging Renie and Xabbu spending the rest of their lives arguing about who was going to do the hard tasks. This could definitely be my favorite fantasy couple (I'm actually stumped on thinking of one that comes even remotely close as they are both such fantastic characters on their own merits, and they both really lead to an evolution in each other and their relationship really transcends romantic love).
4. The Grail Ceremony's disasterous outcome.
5. ENDLESS! LIBRARY! HOUSE!- Did I mention the endless library house?

So the series has my likely favorite fantasy location (contested at least) and favorite fantasy couple (probably uncontested)

Ranking the Worlds
Take Me There Now
1. ENDLESS! LIBRARY! HOUSE!- This is where I would live.
2. The Flying World- Obviously! If you could visit one place for just a day, this would be the choice.

Fun to Visit
3. Mars- Felt vibrant and relatively fully realized for what we saw. Would be an interesting place to explore.
4. Hobbits with Fighter Jets and Nukes- We didn't see it, don't care. Seeing the hobbits destroyed with fighter jets would be great.
5. Golden City- Talking with Atasco after the growth paths of the civilization seems more interesting than the city itself (partially beacuse we saw so little of it, but there isn't a hook).
6. Cartoon Kitchen- This would be a fun place to visit for a day. Honestly, the gruesome death of the partying vegetables was the best part.
7. The Other's Land- Similar in whimsy to the Cartoon Kitchen since this is stitched together fairy tales, but Cartoon Kitchen has better design aspects and humor going for it.
8. Venice- Doesn't have the novelty value some of the above choices have, but I'm sure it would be perfectly fun.

Indifference
9. Egypt- Theoretically would visit, but given who made this world maybe not...
10. 8 Fold (Alice in Wonderland? Chessboard? Both?)- Had potential, but didn't feel fully realized. It got more interesting when we saw the hints of Alice in Wonderland, but we didn't see a lot.
11. Troy- If you have to have war simulation, this isn't a bad choice. But it's not up my alley.
12. Prehistoric Ice World- Not bad for what it was (surprisingly hospitable)

Avoid
13. Wizard of Oz- Obviously this one had gone to hell, but was probably decent before then.
14. Bug World- Went to hell, then went to a much deeper level of hell, but even when it was pristine I wouldn't want to go to it.
15. Destroyed England- War of the Worlds. This one actually stands out as being the only one that's seemed purposefully bad without being...
16. Endless World War I- Granted, this was a literal virtual torture chamber
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Dhyerwolf on April 07, 2021, 05:17:45 PM
Night Angel series reread- Finished the series a few weeks ago. I wanted something very, very, very light after Otherland. Rereading this makes patterns in Brent Weeks' writing really clear (he really loves to put people in crazy pits!), and the Lightbringer series definitely refined a lot in Night Angel.

The winning character is definitely Sister Ariel, a mage who reads as being a very high functioning autist with masterful planning abilities that tacitly propels several of the key arcs. Killer intro scene.

The characters that do not work in some way are Durzo Blint and the Jackal. Durzo Blint is a get out of jail free card, who is drawing on thousands of years of experience. Literally half the legendary figures of this world are Durzo Blint in disguise,

The Jackal would be fine, but his book 3 revelation was a very cheap execution execution. Basically, Weeks likely wanted to keep the truth of the MC's power from him (that he was immortal, but every time he died and came back to life, someone else that he loved died in this place, but generally as casualties of war in times that generally made sense).

Durzo Blint would 100% tell the MC this, so to get around that, Weeks had Durzo write a letter which got covered in blood. This becomes in no way believable that Durzo would only pass on the most crucial information the MC would ever receive in his life in a single letter or method. Then the Jackal just assumed the MC read it, and made snide remarks about a power backlash but despite also supposedly being incredibly smart, doesn't catch onto the very obvious fact that the MC doesn't know what his remarks refer to.

That said, the execution of the twist initially is a total copout. The MC died 4 times before learning, and the first 3 otimes the person who died was an adopted sister who either was never really onscreen at all or had a weird relationship with the MC that did not come across as loving. As such, it really didn't have any impact since it just feels like Weeks could have had him die even more and would have been made up more adopted siblings).

A lot of the characters shouldn't really work (Logan and Elene especially, parts of Dorian's story), but Weeks gives them all a lot of character growth that works very well.

Gender balance was something that really failed here. There are great female characters, but there are also too many who are love interests who had no real control (despite one being a ruler of a powerful nation).  Although I guess the MC's love interest does truly completely subvert that in some very specific ways, but the book was in dire need of a few more Sister Ariel's.

There's something in the books that don't quite gel together; a randomness in the world? Lack of good descriptions of magic structures? I'm not quite sure. This was one area where Lightbringer is a great upgrade.

However, unlike Lightbringer, Weeks at least didn't pull so many punches with the final battle. For all that there weren't many deaths or other hideous fates (maybe not any more than Lightbringer), they were central to the plot.