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Author Topic: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!  (Read 129480 times)

SnowFire

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #775 on: May 04, 2012, 09:32:37 PM »
Aht's fine against randoms early.  Drop (normal) Trap, someone else push.  For the price of two actions get a dead enemy, or occasionally two dead enemies for trap -> push into stack -> push stack into trap.  Overkill against some enemies, sure, but those enemies you weren't scared about to begin with.  The number of randoms who survive a trap activation is fairly low.  Sure, Eruca once she gets her uber skills is even better at MT random destruction, and Raynie can actually take a hit unlike Eruca / Aht, but you can't have everything.

That said, not so much Cross Star hype here.  Star means that Aht isn't dead weight offensively against bosses who can't be pushed, but that's about it.  Aht is very much all about trap activation.

Grefter

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #776 on: May 04, 2012, 11:21:51 PM »
Not to mention that you can just not use her until she levels.  The nonparty combatants don't get full exp, but they get more than enough to be kept up to speed for usability.
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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #777 on: May 04, 2012, 11:51:42 PM »
It needed more love than it was getting in the topic so far! :P

I like Cross Star because for me it was taking out soldiers 'n stuff in one shot from some dagger Aht had stole from a soldier. For me it was a really solid non trap offence option, Aht was going first and clearing out scrubs in one go and for slightly more durable stuff I found it a decent group launcher for following up with other stuff including another Cross Star since Aht usually gets two turns in a combo. Also I didn't go back and do the majority of sidequests including getting secret skills until I'd already beaten the game :P Maybe it was just because I was jacking Aht's MAG as high as possible that Cross Star was so solid for me even before then but eh I was doing that for everyone (Aht/Eruca/Stocke/Raynie)~

Traps are definitely better but I just think later on Cross Star can be a decent/solid option for randoms too if you can't be bothered with pushing/traps sometimes.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 12:11:13 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #778 on: May 05, 2012, 02:10:02 AM »
Aht's fine against randoms early.  Drop (normal) Trap, someone else push.  For the price of two actions get a dead enemy, or occasionally two dead enemies for trap -> push into stack -> push stack into trap.  Overkill against some enemies, sure, but those enemies you weren't scared about to begin with.  The number of randoms who survive a trap activation is fairly low.  Sure, Eruca once she gets her uber skills is even better at MT random destruction, and Raynie can actually take a hit unlike Eruca / Aht, but you can't have everything.

Most enemies that get killed by Aht's traps get killed by push+Raynie at that point, and the ones who don't often aren't trap-friendly to begin with - and fuck, there are enough unmovable randoms around that there will always be stuff Aht will always be atrocious against. Killing at most two enemies, and, depending on their positioning and movability, less than that is -strictly- worse than killing three-to-four enemies most of the time (it's far easier to manipulate grids into the enemies that don't move, so you can always bunch people into a Raynie spell even with that caveat. Can't say the same for Aht). Aht's traps fail at life against randoms, overkill damage is not what you need against them. And Aht's grid manipulation skills early are -always even worse than Raynie's-, because she not only has NO options for that until the 30s, at that point she gets the same options as Raynie's for even -less- damage. This is kinda academic for Raynie herself, but considering Aht's speed, she's often the one who gets two turns with initiative if she's in the party. That loss is -huge- earlier, and later on you just have better crowd control. Fuck, somehow Aht makes her speed work -against- her sometimes. This is impressive.

Also, "not using a PC" isn't exactly a huge point counting their comparative worth to someone else.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 09:41:37 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Grefter

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #779 on: May 05, 2012, 05:19:03 AM »
But it is significantly less damning than characters with low availability that you need to work on late game.  I would certainly argue that in terms of in game use a character that is there a lot and eventually gets good without any effort has higher in game use than a good lategame project character.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #780 on: May 05, 2012, 04:58:10 PM »
Eh, Aht needs the same work to be viable as an endgame boss fighter that Eruca needs to be broken at randoms. Without the Star upgrades, her damage gets practically obsoleted. The argument I was going for there was Aht vs. Raynie, though. Eruca and Aht can slapfight each other for whether they're a 3.5 or a 4.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #781 on: May 05, 2012, 05:54:29 PM »
Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 7/10.  He floats the red mage thing pretty well, enough that the times you'd want to kick him out if you could wuold be pretty niche... meaning his perpetual level advantage gets to shine.
Raynie: 6/10.  She kinda sucks until you finally get some magic lances, at which point she does all the damage.
Marco: 6/10.  Trans-turn and availability are pretty sweet.  That said, aside from trans-turn his main niche is... a bunch of moves Stocke, who you have to use, gets.  There's something to be said for having two people who can move enemies around but he's not irreplaceable by any stretch.
Rosch: 3/10.  Basically pointless.
Aht: 6/10.  I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember that Dancing Death -> G-spell did more damage than 2x G-spell (the result if you had Marco in there giving his turns to Raynie) assuming Aht is failing to break defense (which is normal).  So that's her lategame use.  Earlier, traps are good, then Star traps have a few times they are horrifically broken but those are really exceptions to be sure. 
Gafka: 5/10.  Well, if you wanted physical damage you'd go here.  The merits of such are debatable, though.
Eruca: 3/10.  Y'know, if she was available for the full final dungeon at least, I could see higher.  But no.

Suikoden ABCs:

Anji: 2/10.  If I don't even remember who you are, fuck it.  2.
Antonio: 2/10.
Blackman:  Fenrir/10.  Also 2/10.
Camille: 5/10.  Statistically adequate, but you already have one of those from the word go.
Clive-1: 2/10.  Hello late joining fighter.  At least you can hit things.  Too bad Viktor has the spot for "pointless fighter you didn't want".
Crowley: 6/10.  Cyclone is a pretty useful rune.  And honestly I kinda... remember him being easier to stumble across than an actual Cyclone rune.  Too bad he only joins after everything but the final.

Abizboah: 2/10.  At least, I think he's the one that doesn't screw you out of the good ending.
Amada: 3/10.  He's early enough he may well displace someone worse from your party.  I think.
Anita: 5/10.  She's okay but honestly I don't remember her having the rune slots to milk Falcon as well as she could.
Badeaux: 2/10.
Bob: 4/10.  Werewolf form could really last longer, but there are definitely far worse choices.
Chaco: 2/10.
Chuchara: 2/10.
Clive-2: 2/10

Alanis: 2/10.
Augustine: 6/10.  By the time you really get to use him, enemies don't tend to fight in ways that let him shine.  Still, the damage is there and he's pretty low maintenance. 
Ayame: 6/10.  See above more or less.
Bazba: 2/10.  Poor lizards.
Beecham: 4/10.  Generic mcgenericson.
Belle: 3/10.  Hello mage fighter.  What's that, your affinity is Earth?  Well isn't that a shame.
Bright: 4/10.  You can do worse than Futch/Bright when you need multiple parties.  I've definitely used them to fill out Sarah/Yuber teams before.
Connie: 2/10.  If... you could stick the dogs in war battles I could see some Pale Gate hype here, but yeah.  sans that, anyone can use Open Gate in a reasonable casting time and there are mages with scores in actual attack magic like Estella.

Akaghi: 3/10.  The ninjas are pretty servicable stat wise, at least.
Ameria: 2/10.
Axel: 2/10.
Bartholemew: 2/10.
Champo: 2/10.
Charlemagne: 2/10.
Chiepoo: 4/10.  For some reason I forgot which cat was the plot relevant one and thought we already did him.  Silly me!  Perfectly valid place holder for party members who can use runes.

Alhazred: Abstain.
Belcoot: 5/10.  I recall Falcon having some limitation that held him back from true greatness.
Bernadette: 5/10.
Byakuren: Abstain
Cathari: Abstain
Cius: Abstain
Cornelio:  Abstain
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 04:52:09 AM by Cmdr_King »
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Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #782 on: May 05, 2012, 07:17:55 PM »
I very much doubt Dancing Death -> G-element would outdamage G-element -> G-element, since Dancing Death doesn't give *that* many hits, not that it'd be worth using Aht over Marco for that anyways.

At any rate, I love how people keep saying traps are good against randoms when quite a number of immovable randoms exist at pretty much all points throughout the game and that they largely do nothing against the ones that *can* be moved that can't be accomplished *with less setup* through other means.  I used traps for randoms, but that was because I liked messing with the combat system and seeing how much tomfoolery I could get away with there, not because it was by any means a good idea.  Which hey, guess what, *it wasn't*.

SnowFire

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #783 on: May 05, 2012, 07:38:39 PM »
The short version is that there weren't THAT many immovable randoms I cared about, and I definitely recall that in the midgame there were a decent number of enemies who didn't die to Raynie damage (especially before Raynie gets G-Element spells, but after, too) but died to a trap.  It's a bit closer if you compare Raynie spell + Stocke Power Wave rather than Aht trap + Stocke Push, although you save some MP by using the uber-cheap push, and enemies will be kind enough to walk into traps themselves occasionally sparing you the trouble of the action.

I also am the same as Random in that I used Aht because it was more fun to troll enemies than directly zap them.  But I didn't feel it was a handicap.  Raynie absolutely is more consistent, can take hits, etc. but I can't really see TOO big a difference between the two in random fighting.

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #784 on: May 05, 2012, 08:10:53 PM »
I'm actually blanking on the majority of immovable randoms tbh. Pigs, bears, etc can all still be moved despite their size. The only immovables which come to mind offhand are crystals. Maybe hanging venus fly trap plants and ... mushrooms? The crystal things were mostly a late game issue if I remember right but I was using Cross Star/Cross Star x 2 by then. Cross Star/Cross Star x 2 group launch > Eruca nuke combo is pretty sweet nice too :)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #785 on: May 05, 2012, 09:32:07 PM »
I can count the ten billion vines, half the plants in existence (and there are -multiple- dungeons where those were commonplace), a few robots... yeah. Most huge enemies -aren't- immobile, and traps shine against them because they can hit twice! HOWEVER, huge randoms themselves are actually sorta rare. They tend to be optional bosses instead. Also, it bears noting that most RH randoms tend to have upwards of six/seven randoms, which limits the trap setup further due to less space to drop them into and easily push enemies around. And if you're killing less enemies than the amount of turns you get before the enemy force  in RH randoms (a borderline inevitability with traps on randoms), you're usually doin' it wrong. The game has a pretty notable stint where Aht is a forced member well before she gets Star Traps and Cross Star, and dear god that part burned into my head the "Aht fucking fails at randoms" mantra. Aht gets better with grinding, I guess, but that benefits EVERYBODY, and guess what? Raynie and Eruca benefit from that likely more.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #786 on: May 06, 2012, 02:53:51 AM »
Anji: 2/10.  If you don't remember them from Suikoden 1, they sucked.
Antonio: 2/10.  See above.
Blackman: 2/10.  Ok, I remember him and he has a strong weapon! ...pity this means jack shit.
Camille: 4/10. I think she qualified as having decent well rounded stats.
Clive-1: 3/10. Meeeh.
Crowley: 6/10.  Is a competent Mage with a good run, that's much more than you can say about a lot of this cast.

Abizboah: 2/10.  Suikoden Monster, not worth much.
Amada: 3/10.  Suiko 2 Scrubs aren't as pathetic as Suiko 1 scrubs.
Anita: 6/10.  Falcon Rune.
Badeaux: 3/10.  See Amada.
Bob: 4/10.  Cute rune but not really worth that much.
Chaco: 3/10.  I think?
Chuchara: 1/10.  Doesn't this character stop you from getting all 108 stars?  Yeah, that's worthless.  Tempted to give it 0/10 but I don't think its THAT bad as a character in battle.
Clive-2: 3/10.  MEEEEEH mark 2.

Alanis: 3/10.  How NOT to be a decent Suikoden 3 mage.
Augustine: 6/10.  Some good twinkable offense.
Ayame: 7/10.  Shrike Rune and Condemnation is a nice unite.
Bazba: 1/10.  Lizards suck.
Beecham:  5/10.  Passable filler.
Belle: 3/10.  Earth affinity? Yeah, no.
Bright: 2/10.  Suiko Monsters generally suck.
Connie: 1/10.  Suikodogs are that bad, I'll give it a point for the unite though.

Akaghi: 4/10.  He's fast...or something.
Ameria: 3/10. Whatever.
Axel: 3/10.  Yeah...
Bartholemew: 3/10.  I don't even remember you.
Champo: 2/10.  I remember him being worse than the average Suiko 4 scrub so... 
Charlemagne: 3/10.  Suikoscrub,.
Chiepoo: 4/10.  Suikoscrub, gets a point for early game usage, and still being the #4 character after your first recruit (yes, its Ornan or whatever, but shh!)

Alhazred: 3/10.
Belcoot: 6/10.  Overall solid but nothing special.
Bernadette: 6/10. Remember her being a decent healer with no real downsides.
Byakuren: 3/10. Meh.
Cathari: 7/10.  Twinkable.
Cius: 3/10. Meh.
Cornelio: 4/10.  I tried using him as a mage, but wasn't impressed.

Yes, Suikoscrubs I don't remember get an auto 3/10, outside of Suikoden 1 where they get 2/10 because Suikoscrub in S1 is notably bigger failures.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #787 on: May 06, 2012, 05:25:01 PM »
Radiant Historia:

Stocke: 6.5/10. He just fills the red mage niche pretty well. Second-best ST grid manipulator is worth -tons- and he can help your offense more than you'd think with Air Assault. Being a durable and fast reviver is toodles too. Too bad about the huge lag on his offense, though.
Raynie: 6/10. For most of the game, she's your best cannon, and she's -always- up there for that. Okay durability and speed don't hurt either.
Marco: 7.5/10. Probably game-best PC. Trans-turn is godly, his durability is solid, he's -amazingly- low-maintenance and his ST grid manipulation powers (huge huge) are game-best bar none. GT sleep even gives him a window in which he's just awesome against randoms instead of just quite solid. His healing takes forever to get good, but see how much I care with RH healing items.
Rosch: 2/10. He seriously gets that level of availability to sport shoddy damage and being outdone at all his niches by the likes of Gafka and even -Aht-? Yeah no. Rosch's durability is worthless to boot, he has no way to exploit it against enemies and doesn't get stuff like revival (if you can't draw fire, you -want- to have means to keep the party alive to explore your durability. Stocke does that pretty well!). Fail.
Aht: 4/10. Half a point for the availability and another half-point for the utter mangling of bosses she does lategame. Aht's pretty much game-worst PC at randoms, and being the better healer in RH is a poor niche when items are so fucking good and almost always more powerful than healing spells.
Gafka: 5/10. Has grid manipulation and okay damage, I guess. Gets half a point for turning utterly broken lategame, Wind God Strike is wtfffffffffffffffff.
Eruca: 4/10. I really want to like Eruca more than I do - the skillset is freaking amazing once it gets going and she has godly magic to use it with. You could complain about the bad offense early, but she practically -starts- with Trans-turn and gets MT offense buffs from the get-go, which isn't a bad start. Then she gets wtf offense with G-Frost - and not far, either! - and then she gets godly crowd control if you bother with sidequest skills and... and... then she basically never exists. Losing like ten levels worth of XP on the final dungeon is just insulting. Sigh. She'd have a case for MVP if she had Aht's availability.

Suikoden ABCs:

Anji: 3/10. Man, he's actually not slow. Still, don't care about the unite and not a mage.
Antonio: 2/10. Maximum 128 magic at L99, aw yeah.
Blackman: 2/10. See Antonio.
Camille: 4/10. Alen magic is okay, but the stats elsewhere and no rune? Eh, not exciting me. Cleo basically obsoletes her before she joins anyway.
Clive-1: 2/10. pure physical fighters in s1 with no special runes oh boy
Crowley: 6/10. Crowley's speed is adequate, his magic is ridiculous and S1 Cyclone Rune is good stuff. Not bad, even considering the durability failure.

Abizboah: 2/10. suikoden 2 monster two slots for failure aw yeah
Amada: 3/10. Pure fighter with only one rune slot and no stand-out stats. I'm impressed.
Anita: 5/10. I guess Falcon Rune and solid non-speed stats is nice. But so outclassed by Valeria and her second rune slot opens up so late.
Badeaux: 2/10. Cs across the board on stats and your niche is powering up -monsters-. Um.
Bob: 4/10. I guess he could do worse than Rabid Fang+free slot well before Anita. Still not great.
Chaco: 4/10. three ruen slots running off Cs across the board for stats omg
Chuchara: 2/10. Suikoden 2 monster.
Clive-2: 2/10. One free rune slot on a pure physical fighter in S2 with no command runes. Why bother?

Alanis: 2/10. 04 MAGIC ON A PURE MAGE. Also look at those sexy owned-by-Chris affinities.
Augustine: 6.5/10. One of your carry-throughs on Thomas chapters, and decently competent elsewhere. Concrete durability steadily grows worse, but his offense is very solid.
Ayame: 7/10. Augustine with less durability, but a crazy good unite. Works. 
Bazba: 2/10. Holy crap. What a waste of a Cyclone Rune.
Beecham: 3/10. Um free water rune i guess
Belle: 3/10. Mage-fighter who specializes on -Earth-. Woohoo.
Bright: 3.5/10. I guess he's okay when he's with Hugo and you can mount.
Connie: 0.5/10. If I wanted someone slinging Pale Gates I'd just use Sasarai.

Akaghi: 3/10. Fast or something.
Ameria: 6/10. Hey, fast mage! Guess she makes an okay Wind Rune user due to that 4 on it.
Axel: 3/10. Um why.
Bartholemew: 3/10. Um -why-.
Champo: 2/10. See above.
Charlemagne: 3/10. I guess he could get a Red Rose rune, but who the heck cares.
Chiepoo: 4/10. Less useless than Tal early.

Alhazred: 3/10. Slow short-range mage in S5 without interesting runes. Yeah.
Belcoot: 5/10. Okay enough.
Bernadette: 6/10. That magic score is amazing, the durability is better than your typical mage's and she's long-ranged. Not bad, though she could use speed.
Byakuren: 2/10. Who the hell are you.
Cathari: 7/10. Unsurpassed at ST physical death and faster than everything ever. Too bad she only ever gets one swing, but them's the breaks.
Cius: 2/10. what.
Cornelio: 2/10. Hell.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 05:48:35 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #788 on: May 07, 2012, 01:52:05 AM »
Glad to see people actually voting in this topic again~

Anyway, casts I missed:

Anji: 4.5/10. He lacks magic, but his skill and speed are both good, and Pirate is a strong unite.
Antonio: 3/10. Mediocre, though at least isn't slow.
Blackman: 2.5/10. Slower.
Camille: 6/10. Solid in all the important stats, but unexceptional.
Clive-1: 4/10. He's okay.
Crowley: 5.5/10. I prefer fighter/mages to pure mages since I don't find their extra spell charges worth the loss of decent physical and durability but Crowley is still fine.

Abizboah: 1.5/10. He took up two slots right? Yeah no. He has decent MT damage at least.
Amada: 4/10. Unremarkable and meh.
Anita: 6/10. Falcon Rune's a good toy.
Badeaux: 2.5/10. I'm not sure what his niche is.
Bob: 4/10. Now I know what his niche is, it's just not a very good one.
Chaco: 5.5/10. Good rune twinking potential if you decide you care.
Chuchara: DNR. No, seriously, nobody gets him.
Clive-2: 2/10. Um yeah, not sure where this twinking hype is coming from, he has one rune slot and his physical is awful.

Akaghi: 4.5/10. Surprisingly good all-around stats, except str/mag. And you do want at least one of those. Oh well.
Ameria: 6.5/10. Huh, she's surprisingly good, nice durability and magic and speed and 4 wind.
Axel: 4/10. Unimpressive pure fighter, but there's worse.
Bartholemew: 2.5/10. Bleh, that terrible type of pure fighter Suikoscrub.
Champo: 4/10. Fast!
Charlemagne: 3/10. Also bad, though not as bad as Bart.
Chiepoo: 5/10. Surprisingly decent fighter.

Alhazred: 2/10. Pure mage who is bad at it.
Belcoot: 6.5/10. Weird to have a defensive Falcon user, but still a very solid point man.
Bernadette: 6/10. Pure mage with loads of durability. Not bad.
Byakuren: 2/10. Can freeze bosses at least, but otherwise, L-size monster.
Cathari: 7.5/10. The best two-free-slot fighter.
Cius: 2/10. Uh he is durable.
Cornelio: 2/10. Mediocrity.

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Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #789 on: May 07, 2012, 04:26:24 PM »
Yay! Means I can actually update soonish!

Oh, Elfboy, if its not too much trouble, could you delete the unrated characters in your initial post?  Just makes things a little easier for me.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #790 on: May 21, 2012, 03:34:16 AM »
Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 6.78
Raynie: 6.43
Marco: 7.07
Rosch: 3.00
Aht: 5.14
Gafka: 5.29
Eruca: 3.79

Suikoden ABCs:

Anji: 2.70
Antonio: Antonio 2.20
Blackman: 2.25
Camille: 5.25
Clive-1: 3.00
Crowley: 6.36

Abizboah: 1.90
Amada: 3.17
Anita: 5.43
Badeaux: 2.30
Bob: 4.17
Chaco: 3.58
Chuchara: N/A
Clive-2: 2.83

Alanis: 2.25
Augustine: 6.50
Ayame: 6.83
Bazba: 2.50
Beecham: 4.25
Belle: 3.58
Bright: 3.67
Connie: 1.08

Akaghi: 3.92
Ameria: 4.30
Axel: 3.50
Bartholemew: 2.50
Champo: 2.40
Charlemagne: 2.80
Chiepoo: 4.17

Alhazred: 2.80
Belcoot: 6.00
Bernadette: 6.08
Byakuren: N/A
Cathari: 6.70
Cius: 2.00
Cornelio: 2.40

Highest Rating of this session: Marco w/ 7.07
Lowest Rating of this session:  Connie w/ 1.08

Byakuren and Chuchara did not get enough ratings, therefor have been punted.

Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68

Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Connie 1.08
14. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
15. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
16t. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16t. Ax (S5) 1.20
17t. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
19. Squid (FFT) 1.25
20t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
20t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28

I need to be more efficient, but that would require overcoming laziness...

Breath of Fire 4:
Nina:
Ryu:
Fou-lu:
Ershin:
Cray:
Scias:
Ursula:

Suikoden DEFG:

Eikei:
Eileen:
Fu Su Lu:
Fuiken:
Fuma:
Futch:
Gen:
Gon:
Griffith:

Feather:
Freed Y:
Futch:
Gabocha:
Gadget:
Gantetsu:
Gengen:
Genshu:
Gijimu:

Duke:
Dupa:
Edge:
Elaine:
Emily:
Estella:
Franz:
Fred:
Fubar:
Futch:
Gadget Z:
Gau-3:

Eugene:
Gau-4:
Gretchen:

Dinn:
Eresh:
Ernst:
FaSoLa:
Faylen:
Faylon:
Gavaya:
Goesch:
Gunde:

Yes, I know Gau and Gau are two different characters, but to avoid problems for checking results, I've just given them the usual number distinction.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #791 on: May 25, 2012, 03:34:56 PM »
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 8
Ryu: 9
Fou-lu: 5
Ershin: 4
Cray: 3
Scias: 7
Ursula: 7

Suikoden DEFG:

Eikei: 4
Eileen: 8
Fu Su Lu: 4
Fuiken: 4
Fuma: 4
Futch: 5 - Kinda bad, but gets warm body points
Gen: 2
Gon: 2
Griffith: 3

Feather: 4
Freed Y: 5
Futch: 6
Gabocha: 3
Gadget: 4
Gantetsu: 4
Gengen: 4
Genshu: 4
Gijimu: 4

Duke: 6 - Good, but low availability
Dupa: 3
Edge: 6 - Decent, and good availability
Elaine: 6 - see Duke
Emily: 7.5 - really good!
Estella: 6.5 - All those runes
Franz: 6.5 - Good, but low availability, good unites, and I like the mounted PCs
Fred: 7.5 - Important warm body, good stats too
Fubar: 7 - Vital part of the Hugo Fucks Things Up Beyond All Repair combo.
Futch: 9 - Suiko 2 import data makes him a god
Gadget Z: 3 - eh
Gau-3: 3 - eh, and low availability

Eugene:
Gau-4:
Gretchen:

Dinn: 4.5 - Decent warm body
Eresh: 6 - Good mage, but low availability and locks you out of EURAM BAROWS
Ernst: 8 - Actually quite good and unique
FaSoLa: 1.5 - Clearly a god
Faylen: 6.5 - I remember the sister was quite good and had some fun unites
Faylon: 3 - whereas the brother was only ever in my party because he could unite with his sister
Gavaya: 3 - harder to recruit than he should be.
Goesch: 4
Gunde: 4

Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #792 on: May 25, 2012, 08:01:05 PM »
don't really feel like commentary right now

Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 8.5/10
Ryu: 7/10
Fou-lu: DNR
Ershin: 4/10
Cray: 2/10
Scias: 6/10
Ursula: 7/10

Suikoden DEFG:

Eikei: who/10
Eileen: 7/10
Fu Su Lu: 3/10
Fuiken: who/10
Fuma: who/10
Futch: 3/10
Gen: 2/10
Gon: 2/10
Griffith: who/10

Feather: 2/10
Freed Y: 4/10
Futch: 3/10
Gabocha: 2/10
Gadget: 3/10
Gantetsu: who
Gengen: 2/10
Genshu: 0.5/10 oh right I expunged his failure at existing from my mind.
Gijimu: 4/10
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 08:27:14 PM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #793 on: May 25, 2012, 11:16:37 PM »
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 9/10. Best healer, best speed, best magic, best AP, and the more important half of the combo magic of doom setup that dominates randoms. I guess she has bad durability and mediocre ST damage (which doesn't matter that much because she heals in fights where ST is most important) so she's not a 10 or something.
Ryu: 7/10. Dragons make him very solid in bosses. Unremarkable in randoms.
Fou-lu: DNR
Ershin: 3/10. Pretty consistently mediocre. Durable but the game doesn't call for it.
Cray: 3.5/10. Good damage against bosses for much of the game, that is something at least. Dead weight in randoms.
Scias: 6.5/10. Cray who doesn't suck in randoms. Also has some healing I suppose.
Ursula: 8/10. The other half of the randomsweeping of doom team. And has good ST damage, not that this outweighs everything Nina does better than her.

Suikoden DEFG:

Eikei: 4/10. He's a bit slow, but he can attack two enemies a turn and his skill doesn't fail, so there are worse fighter options.
Eileen: 7/10. High magic and speed.
Fu Su Lu: 2/10. Your typical bad S1 fighter.
Fuiken: 4/10. I guess he can revive people, but that's what Flowing is for.
Fuma: 4/10. Pure fighter who doesn't suck, but still a S1 pure fighter.
Futch: 4/10. See Fuma, really.
Gen: 3.5/10. Not atrocious, but...
Gon: 2.5/10. Bad.
Griffith: 3/10. Hey, I remember him! Kinda liked him for some reason. But he's another Suikoscrub.

Feather: 4/10. Fighter with a bit of an MT focus, actually solid against flyers.
Freed Y: 4/10. All-rounder.
Futch: 4/10. As above.
Gabocha: 2.5/10. Futch without the durability and down a rune slot.
Gadget: 3/10. Decent tank for a bit.
Gantetsu: 3/10. Blah stats everywhere.
Gengen: 3/10. Well he's better than Gabocha I guess.
Genshu: 1.5/10. Useless samurai man. Aw yeah no (useful) rune slots.
Gijimu: 4/10. He has solid stats, but only one rune slot.

Duke: 2.5/10. A bit of a joke on the game designers' part I'm sure. 1 swing and mediocre magic affinities torpedo his solid all-around stats.
Dupa: 3/10. Fury Rune smash. Too bad he's slow and can't do anything but smash, and isn't even that special at smash.
Edge: 6/10. Solid all-rounder who manages to actually excel at the job somewhat, unlike Duke.
Elaine: 6.5/10. Better all-rounder still. Actually I kinda respect the Duke troupe, they join with high levels/weapons/lots of skill points right before you need to suddenly balloon your party size, too bad two of them suck.
Emily: 8.5/10. Smash you all.
Estella: 4.5/10. Rarely see much point for pure mages in Suikoden, and this is the Suikoden tilted most against them probably. Still, she's very good at boss nuking and probably the best of her group.
Franz: 3/10. lol whatever
Fred: 5.5/10. Competent enough tank.
Fubar: 5/10. *shrug*
Futch: 4/10. Mediocre.
Gadget Z: 2/10. Awesome, but no rune slots means failure.
Gau-3: 5.5/10. Solid fighter, see above comments about Duke troupe.

Eugene: 5/10. Firefly tank with some magic, but ew at the speed.
Gau-4: 3/10. Fast, but no magic = limited rune slots forever. Meh.
Gretchen: 5/10. Tank, other stats average. Eh sure.

Dinn: 5/10. Respectable tank.
Eresh: 5/10. No rune freedom but decent past that.
Ernst: 6/10. I guess he can own bosses.
FaSoLa: DNR get out
Faylen: 5/10. Think she was workable filler.
Faylon: 3/10. Think he wasn't.
Gavaya: 4/10. Kinda mediocre all-around, but good potential at level 55!! Whatever.
Goesch: 4/10. As above.
Gunde: 2.5/10. Too slow to be worth a damn.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 05:56:47 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #794 on: June 20, 2012, 11:46:50 AM »
oh hey time for more random plays catchup in a topic that dies for weeks at a time

Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: um yeah.  Only relevent flaws are bad durability which gets fixed quickly and low attack power against bosses which gets fixed once Valiant comes into play.  Meanwhile, Mystic is ridiculous, ARM twinking has ridiculous potential through 10-shot gatling shenanigans, game best stat spread in practice due to Summon basically being god against randoms and her problems being the easiest to fix... yeah, just basically manhandles the game.  Gets kept out of the highest echelons of broken due to needing some time to achieve that level of manhandling though.  9/10.
Gallows Caradine: Extension is pretty great for support, and the speed is even salvageable so he can nail randoms with Summon that Ginny has problems with thanks to his superior magic stat.  Might as well pretend his physical isn't even an option though, and his durability would be nicer to have if enemies were more competent.  7/10.
Jet Enduro:  Helloooooo, whatever boy.  You basically need Clive's attack stat to make me care about physical damage output since Valiant exists and Jet even has some accuracy issues to boot, and on top of that gameworst magic stat by a country mile, so he's basically hopeless against randoms.  The problems can be fixed, but like others said, WA3 rewards specialization to an absurd degree, so basically he just ends up being an item caddy and a replay whore, which ultimately does not fill me with the carings.  3/10.
Clive Winslett: Insane attack power, is the most useful character before Ginny and Gallows pick up steam because of it, and once they do he's still solid because he doesn't need puny buffs to smack bosses around, and the power/accuracy combo lets him not embarrass himself against randoms like Jet does.  7/10.

oh hey double feature meeple update your damn topic.

Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: Mystic off of that speed ensures that he's not actually *bad* and he is at least durable and accurate but yeesh could that OC set be more unimpressive and lolshapeshifter.  5/10.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: Slow Down is great.  Other tricks are p. nice too and he even can get decent damage though that is obviously more situational.  Also evasion and good mdef are wonderful.  9/10.
Yulie Ahtreide: Die to a sneeze less.  Healing is also outdone by items but thankfully that's not really her point.  FP Advantage/Quicken/Turn Shift/Protect are all pretty great and once she gets rolling she's uh more useful than Jude at least.  6/10.
Raquel Applegate: Oh look crazy high damage.  Too bad about the speed being complete trash, and *this matters*.  At least she can mitigate this flaw so she's still good, but yeesh.  7/10. 
Kresnik Ahtreide: Hello you stick around for basically no amount of time I don't care about you you ridiculously emo tosser.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:10:52 AM by Random Consonant »

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #795 on: August 09, 2012, 01:27:23 AM »
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 9/10.  Textbook example of an overpowered character whose not quite stupid broken!
Ryu: 7/10.  Excellent at Bosses, merely decent at everything else, yeah this works.
Fou-lu: Too Fucking Awesome/10.
Ershin: 5/10.  God Awful first half of the game, potentially amazing second half, but requires you to actually build her with that forethought...so yeah, average rating.
Cray: 3/10.  He's usable and all, but agme is not kind to his build at all.  Slow, low AP, and any gimmick set ups that'd be useful on him like Super combo Focus Last Resort nonsense lose their purpose due to the ball-lightning nature of the game.
Scias: 7/10.  Actually useful Physical fighter.  Fast, hits hard, Shining Blade and the AP to support semi-consistent usage of it, and has an actual magic score to fill in as a Magic Combo fighter.  Secondary healer never hurts.
Ursula: 8/10.  Nina's partner in crime, basically having everyhting Nina has AND an MT physical, though lacks the Healing.  Losing trade overall!  She's still amazing.

Suikoden DEFG:

Eikei: 3/10.  Suikoscrub.
Eileen: 7/10.  Oh hey, an adequate mage, and even comes with a passable Rune.
Fu Su Lu: 2/10.  Having used him personally, I can safely say he's complete garbage.
Fuiken: 3/10.  Flowing Rune is easily gotten and basically obsoletes this guy yes.
Fuma: 3/10.  Pure fighter Suikoscrub, whee!
Futch: 3/10.  More of the same.
Gen: 3/10.  Ditto here!
Gon: 2/10.  Sub-par Suikoscrub...wrap your head around that one.
Griffith: 3/10.  Suikoscrub.

Feather: 3/10.  Good stats and a good unite and-...oh, takes up 2 character slots *flushes*
Freed Y: 3/10.  Generic Bad.
Futch: 3/10.  Ditto.
Gabocha: 2/10.  Subpar Suikoscrub.
Gadget: 4/10.  He's a tank, which gives him SOMETHING over the above.
Gantetsu: 3/10.  Suikoscrub.
Gengen: 3/10.  Suikoden Kobolds, the fail is special!
Genshu: 2/10.  Scrubby AND gotten really late; loses a point for that alone.
Gijimu: 4/10.  He's ok, but yeah.

Duke: 3/10.  Scrubby.  How is this guy GEDDOE'S ETERNAL RIVAL!!! again?
Dupa: 2/10.  Suikoden Lizard.  They are special.
Edge: 5.5/10.  Decent at stuff, but merely decent.
Elaine: 6/10.  More Decent at stuff.
Emily: 8/10.  Fast and kills things dead. 
Estella: 5/10.  Good Mage.  In the game where "Pure Mage" suddenly stopped being dominant offensive force.
Franz:  3/10.  Unspecial.
Fred: 5/10.  Good tank!  Pity offense matters more.
Fubar: 4/10.  Unspecial, though he's around for a while, so I guess half a point for that or something.
Futch: 4/10.  Meh...
Gadget Z: 2/10.  I love the guy and all but his uses are limited...
Gau-3: 5/10.  Hey, a Kobold who doesn't completely suck!  Not amazing or anything, but he doesn't embarrass himself.

Eugene: 4/10.  I guess...
Gau-4: 3/10.  I remember using him in some area and he sucked because pure fighter.
Gretchen: 5/10. Pure Tank w/ no offense.

Suikoden 5 I don't remember as well, so I'm just gonna copy Elfboy with one change!

Dinn: 5/10. Respectable tank.
Eresh: 5/10. No rune freedom but decent past that.
Ernst: 5/10. I'd respect Boss Owning more if bosses were more prominent throughout the game, and I seem to recall that once you factor out the garbage like, say, Zahak, there weren't many GENUINE bosses.
FaSoLa: DNR get out
Faylen: 5/10. Think she was workable filler.
Faylon: 3/10. Think he wasn't.
Gavaya: 4/10. Kinda mediocre all-around, but good potential at level 55!! Whatever.
Goesch: 4/10. As above.
Gunde: 2.5/10. Too slow to be worth a damn.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #796 on: August 09, 2012, 03:12:52 AM »
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 8.5/10
Ryu: 6/10
Fou-lu: DNR
Ershin: 4/10
Cray: 3.5/10
Scias: 6/10
Ursula: 7.5/10

Suikoden III:
Duke: 2/10.
Dupa: 3/10.
Edge: 6/10.
Elaine: 7/10
Emily: 8.5/10.
Estella: 3/10.
Franz: 2.5/10.
Fred: 5.5/10.
Fubar: 5/10.
Futch: 4/10.
Gadget Z: 2/10.
Gau-3: 5/10.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 03:14:59 AM by Ciato »
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #797 on: August 09, 2012, 05:58:56 PM »
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 9/10. I'm not sure I need to add commentary for her? People have said good things so far.
Ryu: 8/10. Boss-prepared. Standard character, and much better in triples of either Nina, Scias and Ryu or Ryu, Nina and Ursula.
Fou-lu: 10/10. Really. Really, really. You should learn that quite early in the game.
Ershin: 6/10. Okay. Ershin crits are awesome, I am not going to lie. Unfortunately you don't need her crits later in the game and no dungeon really requires her presence. I tried liking Ershin, I did - felt like Ershin would be BoF3 Peco, but nope.
Cray: 3/10. Pretty useless, even in the beginning and way too slow to boot.
Scias: 8/10. Scias is pretty pimp and on Ryu level for two reasons: he fills in where Ryu fails and is as swift as the wind. Very much interchangeable with late-game Ursula, plus his specials are pretty nice.
Ursula: 9/10. My favorite character out of the entire group. Good ATK, balanced character, multi-phys attacks, great combo fuser, Revival. Bad accuracy. Would be 8/10 if she wasn't my favorite character.

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #798 on: August 10, 2012, 07:41:44 PM »
Quote
Ursula: 9/10. My favorite character out of the entire group. Good ATK, balanced character, multi-phys attacks, great combo fuser, Revival. Bad accuracy. Would be 8/10 if she wasn't my favorite character.

Then give her an 8/10.  This isn't a topic where favoritism is suppose to effect ratings.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Idun

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #799 on: August 10, 2012, 11:42:37 PM »
Imagine I put the 8/10 there since it's already mentioned.