The RPG Duelling League
Social Forums => Discussion => Topic started by: Meeplelard on February 19, 2010, 04:42:22 PM
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Yeah, just starting from scratch cause new people have come, not many interesting games were left in the old topic, opinions have changed, and I need a reason to smack some of you more for not paying attention to directions!
Anyway, simply put, rank a character based on how they are in game. What criteria you use...dunno, but its just in game stuff, naturally I assume you're smart enough to ignore obvious things like "Character is awesome if you cheat in their ultimate weapon from the get go!" or "Godlike based on the first 10% of the game where they are overleveled! Yes, I'm ignoring how they're significantly worse after!" (No one has said anything like that, mind, just random example of a stupid biased vote. I've seen plenty of people giving bonus points or something in that scenario, but that's different!)
Format is quite simple. I list characters, you rate them on a scale of 0 to 10; 10 being the highest of the broken and 0 being the "Completely useless NEVER USE" score. A few quick notes though!
-I accept x.5s. I do NOT want to see x.25s or anything like that. Those just get complicated to read; just keep the decimals to 1/10th of a point at most and ideally, nothing beyond a "5" being listed there <_<
-Please put your official number in a way that's easy to read. Either bold the number you want counted *OR* just place it at the beginning of the character. It avoids scenarios where someone goes "well, they're 7/10 at the beginning of the game, but 3/10 by the end, so...5/10 overall, yeah, that works!" I don't read comments when I do averages, cause it takes too long, I just look at numbers; this saves me a lot of pain and makes things more accurate. So yeah, just please make your "official" number obvious to read.
-No Bonus/Penalty points based on how much you like a character. I don't mean a playstyle thing mind; obviously some subjectivity is going to be involved. What I mean is going "This character is pretty, +2 points for that alone!" type stuff.
-DNRs ARE allowed. If there are more DNR votes than normal votes, then the character gets removed from the list. I urge you to please not label "DNR" when you mean "Abstain." Furthermore, please use some rational thought when using a DNR; naturally, permanent/regular characters I expect to not see DNRs for (Abstains are fine, obviously), so this mostly applies to Temps or bizarre scenario PCs. And DNRing on grounds of "Should be ranked later!" should be avoided too (applies to cast splits for things like Suikodens); I don't care if you don't agree with where this character got placed, this is when he's getting ranked, so just rank him now.
--As a branch off to DNRs, you *CAN* say DNR (x/10), if you want to give the person a rating but feels they should be DNRed. I'll treat it as a DNR vote, but if they fail to get DNRed, I will count your numerical rating towards their average. That's fine, so feel free!
-Characters in multiple games should be ranked based on the game in question being ranked. Yes, Yuri is in 2 Shadow Hearts games, but for these purposes, he's to be ranked as two separate characters.
-I want at least 5 votes before I can move on, so if we're stuck on a cast and you can vote on it and want it to move on, VOTE DAMN IT! Less than 5 votes on someone is equivalent to DNRing someone, cause 5 is a minimal sample size as far as I'm concerned.
-Please do NOT try to be cute regarding character names and change them as they are listed; it makes it a lot harder on me when the name doesn't match the Ctrl+F function. So if I name someone by one name and you put in their japanese name or something cause hey, you like it more...no, don't do that, its a dick move.
--Branching from that, if I have a genuine name spelling wrong, you can change it, but PLEASE signify that the name was spelled wrong so I know to fix it; that's being helpful see. Just changing the name makes life harder, especially if the names are completely different (Deis vs. Bleu comes to mind)
I know, I bog things down with rules, but paranoia and trying to avoid some shit from the previous topic where people tried stunts, or were constantly saying "DNR" when they meant "Abstain" and what not. Really, a lot of this should go without saying...its the same as DL Rankings for the most part, maybe with a more harsher DNR Curve.
Characters are generally listed either in rough order of appearance *OR* alphabetical order; feel its a good objective way to list things. Note that when I say "appearance", I tend the change the definition on a whim be it "Literal appearance" or "first gameplay moment" or "how the manual lists them" etc.
So with that in mind, LETS GET THINGS UNDERWAY!!!!
*THIS SPOT RESERVED FOR QUICK LINKS TO FINAL RANKINGS*
Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni:
Rena Lanford:
Celine Jules:
Dias Flac:
Ashton Anchors:
Opera Vectra:
Precis Neuman:
Bowman Jean:
Leon Geeste:
Ernest Raviede:
Noel Chandler:
Chisato Madison:
Note that the game order I do is UTTERLY RANDOM, and I tend to choose on the spot, so trying to request games unless I specifically ask for ones is typically going nowhere (I often just poll chat and work from there <_<.)
EDIT:
If you want to skip to ratings and see what everyone got, or if you want a list to reference what we did, well, here you go! This is where the FINAL ratings ended up, so if you want to see what everyone else (that counted) said, check just before it! Going in alphabetical order, # is the Page its on. I'm also listing ratings that are being done as we speak, just in case you're curious. So an "*ongoing*" means the ratings are being done NOW and you should RATE WHILE YOU STILL CAN or something.
Bravely Default: 46
Breath of Fire: 12
Breath of Fire 2: 19
Breath of Fire 3: 26
Breath of Fire 4: 34
Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter: 28
Chrono Cross: 17-21
Chrono Trigger: 4
Cthulu Saves the World: 34
Digital Devil Saga: 43
Digital Devil Saga 2: 45
Disgaea: Hour of Darkness: 2
Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories: 45
Dragon Quest 4: 27
Dragon Quest 8: 17
Earthbound: 37
Final Fantasy (Original and DoS): 41
Final Fantasy 3 (DS): 40
Final Fantasy 4 (Advance): 36
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years: 36
Final Fantasy 5 (Advance) Jobs: 29
Final Fantasy 6: 28
Final Fantasy 7: 24
Final Fantasy 8: 22
Final Fantasy 9: 16
Final Fantasy 10: 6
Final Fantasy 13: 31
Final Fantasy Tactics PCs: 21
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics: 22
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters: 24
Fire Emblem 6-10: 4-12 (I might split this up so you know exactly who is where)
Fire Emblem Awakening: 33 (34 for 2 decimal rankings)
Grandia: 26
Grandia 2: 29
Grandia 3: 30
Kingdom Hearts: 40
Legaia 2: 39
Legend of Dragoon: 15
Legend of Legaia: 19
Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals: 25
Lunar Eternal Blue Complete: 40
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete: 11
Mana Khemia: 9
Mana Khemia 2: 34
Mega Man X Command Mission: 5
Mother 3: 44
Ogre Battle: 38
Persona 3: 40
Persona 4: 25
Phantasy Star 4: 16
Pokemon Gen 2: 41-43
Radiant Historia: 32
SaGa Frontier: 25-27
Secret of Mana: 18
Seiken Densetsu 3: 43
Shadow Hearts: 14
Shadow Hearts Covenant: 20
Shadow Hearts: From the New World: 38
Skies of Arcadia (Legends): 10
Star Ocean: 2nd Story: 1
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time: 18
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope: 37
Super Mario RPG: 7
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier: 38
Suikodens: 29-34 *incomplete*
Tales of Graces F: 38
Tales of Phantasia: 38
Tales of Symphonia: 39
Tales of the Abyss: 8
Tales of Vesperia: 45
Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy: *on-going*
Valkyrie Profile: 13
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria: 44
Wild ARMs: 2
Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition: 17
Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd: 24
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator: 25
Wild ARMs XF: 39
Xenogears (On Foot): 14
Xenogears (Gears): 15
Xenosaga: Dur Will zur Macht: 24
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose: 30
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarahustra: 38
BONUS ROUNDS:
Devil May Cry Weapons: 17
Mega Man Weapons: 25
Mega Man 2 Weapons: 38
Mega Man 3 Weapons: 27
Phoenix Wright Lawyers: 40
EDIT: Moving them here because probably fits better:
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Minato Arisato (Pers3) 10.00
2t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
2t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
5. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
6. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
9. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
10. Haar (FE10) 9.17
11t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
11t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
13. Dark Knight (BD) 9.10
14. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
15. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
16t. Lugia (PKMN GSC) 9.00
16t White Mage (BD) 9.10
18. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
19. Robin/Avatar (FE13) 8.94
20t. Fogel (OB) 8.90
20t. Ho-Oh (PKMN GSC) 8.90
22. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
23. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 25 Failures:
1t. Tree (FFT) 0.50
1t. Unown (PKMN GSC) 0.50
3. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
4. Karla (FE7) 0.77
5t. Hitmontop (PKMN GSC) 0.80
5t. Magcargo (PKMN GSC) 0.80
5t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.80
5t. Slime (SaGa) 0.80
9. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
10. Hitmonchan (PKMN GSC) 0.90
11t. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
11t. Delbird (PKMN GSC) 0.92
13. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
14. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
15t. Ariados (PKMN GSC) 1.00
15t. Harley (FF4TAY) 1.00
15t. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
15t. Mr. Mime (PKMN GSC) 1.00
15t. Tyranitar (PKMN GSC) 1.00
15t. Yanma (PKMN GSC) 1.00
21. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
22. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
23. Connie 1.08
24. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
25. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
NOTE: I am expanding this list to Top/Bottom 30 in the near future, hence why I am leaving Bottom 20 the way it is; just more convenient.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 8.5/10. Excellent fighter, excellent at item creation, and has a great pool of equips.
Rena Lanford: 9/10. Only mage worth using.
Celine Jules: 5/10. Surprisingly useful; she has earlygame use and her item creation skills she starts with can help break the game hard.
Dias Flac: 8/10. Probably the game's best all around fighter; and the only one who competes with Claude on the equip front. His only real problem is being splitpath.
Ashton Anchors: 5/10. Good payoff late, but he's so meh until then.
Opera Vectra: 7.5/10. A on one is pretty Godlike, but it is all she has besides healing star. Still is good unless you are playing above earth! In which case, *Flush*.
Precis Neuman: 7/10. Equips+Barrier is nasty if you get it. She starts off fairly weak though and you need to spend some time investing in her to make her good.
Bowman Jean: 6.5/10. Starts bad, ends good.
Leon Geeste: 1.5/10. Urk. Not only costs you Dias, but has no real merits on his own. SO2 magic is bad.
Ernest Raviede: 2/10. Battle suits!!! Otherwise isn't worth using.
Noel Chandler: 0.5/10. Noel. He also has terrible equips a nd gets nothing of use until late.
Chisato Madison: 3/10. Unremarkable PC who joins late, the only thing in her favor is the Algol.
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Don't really value IC abilities for specific characters, on the grounds that I can't recall an eight character team that can fail anything notable, as a disclaimer.
Claude Kenni: 8/10. Gamebest KMs across the board(Well, his first two are worse than some other people's first two, admittedly, which sucks a little due to him being so early and does knock him back a point.), gamebest equips. Has no real downsides. Great character.
Rena Lanford: 8/10. Good healer, game can deal fatal damage to people in randoms, let alone boss fights, and the game may as well only have one healer. The only reason she's not 9/10 is that I can and have done hard boss fights without her, using Compounding for a while, and fundamentally that's actually more effective...just a lot more of a pain in the ass.
Celine Jules: 5/10. Jeigan. Great early, drops off around the disc swap. Unlike Jeigan does not steal EXP.
Dias Flac: 7/10. Good raw power, *great* speed on his KMs. Lacks a good tie-up KM, meaning he has issues on higher modes(where he'll get blocked more due to failing to keep someone in stunlock as well as some others) but his KMs are just killer for coming off fast, executing fully fast, and doing damage fast. Good equips, too.
Ashton Anchors: 5/10. Utter trash for most of the game outside of the overly expensive Leaf Slash(Which is pretty good though, albiet not incredible) but pays off...a bit after Celine becomes obsolete. Pretty good.
Opera Vectra: 7.5/10. Loses half a point for Universe requiring heavy power twinking to so much as scratch paint, and for Galaxy requiring some to do any real damage. During the normal game she's easily as good as Claude though, incredible mults make up for the lousy weaponry and the areas she strikes in are all excellent, including the game's only real ranged damage. Healing Star, Flame Launcher, Alpha on One and Hyper Launcher are all really killer if you bother with them, and you don't really have to thanks to Alpha. <_<
Precis Neuman: 7/10. I find her better than super seems to but rate her the same, due to seeing SO2 as not having a massive use difference curve. She had a few moves that are excellent tie-up moves for the point in the early-game, Ally-Oop being totally impossible to avoid having connect if the move starts is pretty damn awesome against a few enemies later(Amusingly it's so early that it's impossible to notice or care about this though. It's pretty funny to see Iseria try to avoid it and fail.), Mole was okay too. But yeah, Barrier, is sick, etc.
Bowman Jean: 5.5/10. Poison Pills is good. Every other move is awful for ages and Poison Pills is just good like Leaf Slash, not good like @ on One(Though I find Poison Pills cleanly superior to Leaf Slash honestly). Explosion Pills are good but ram into elemental issues to a degree, which by that stage are sorta common. Bleh, he's never bad though.
Leon Geeste: 3/10. Can't say I really think of him as costing you Dias, myself, separate plotline and all. Still, he's...not much, he's the best lategame mage but he comes in about two hours from mages dropping off. He's not...horrid despite this, but he's definitely bad.
Ernest Raviede: 3/10. bleeeeehhhhh Thousand Whips for no good reason stuns the fuck out of him on block, like many skills, but unlike many skills seems really narrow on hitbox, enemies walk out of it after the block really easy in my experience. Broken Heart is good but good like Explosion Pills(well it lacks the elemental issue but hits less area). Dimension Whip is killer as a starting KM but that takes leveling to see happen. As far as I care he may as well not have other moves(And I'm usually pretty generous to iffy moves, the only other move I'd even consider using is that silly tornado move, Sonic Whip I believe, and it's just not much to me.).
Noel Chandler: 1.5/10. -.5 for the AI, which makes even getting anything notable out of him a god damn pain in the ass, but even without that, his lack of Magic equipment makes him damn near as bad at dealing magical damage as Rena(His theoretical edge on her. Don't say Earthquake, just don't. Noah is better than Star Flare but not massively...), he's late, he may keep you from getting Ernest/Chisato(damn if anyone else is going to get dropped), he's a worse healer than Rena, and he has no notable advantages to make up for any of this. He's obsolete from moment one, and while there's room to defend him on his own merits(If Rena didn't exist), that doesn't help his use to me much. And there's never a real reason you need two healers. Blah. Only reason he's not lower is because healer is the only useful mage at that point, and he *does* admittedly outdamage Rena a little, so if you're very into micromanagement and don't mind losing some healing options in your healer he's not total trash.
Chisato Madison: 5/10. Dias-. Worse equips, but her good moves are very similar all in all to his on raw mults and are as fast, but tend to have more hits(meaning she oddly takes to offense twinking better than he does probably), and she has better area control(Ten Thousand Volts is underrated, stupidly fast windup. She can get off a second shot before the first leaves the screen fully.). The equips are that much worse though, and she has nothing quite as shiny as Illusion; her last two moves are junky. Ah well.
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Claude Kenni: 9/10. One of the gamebest fighters right at the beginning!
Rena Lanford: 6/10. In part due to PSP remake where the damage is even worse, but... items did me well through most of my replay. Useful enough to have a spot 95% of the time, but...
Celine Jules: 4/10. Useful Jeigan, magic has occasional use later but.
Dias Flac: 7.5/10. Splitpath (and costs you Battle Armors via proxy), but very good. I hesitate to call him better than Claude but YMMV. Would be 9 if was simply splitpath via choice between him/Leon, and not between Rena/Claude.
Ashton Anchors: 5/10. Would be higher but taking him means losing out on Battle Suits. Competent but not great. Splitpath.
Opera Vectra: 5/10. Competent but not great. Splitpath.
Precis Neuman: 7/10. BARRIER. Splitpath, but doesn't cost you Armors so tied with Dias almost. Takes time to get going.
Bowman Jean: 7/10. See Precis. Both are pretty useful, sadly can't get both.
Leon Geeste: 0.5/10. Splitpath. Replaces DIAS. Celine's just kinda better on the magic front IMO. Sooooo yeaaaaah.
Ernest Raviede: 2/10. Battle Suits.
Noel Chandler: 1/10. HEALING + BLOODY ARMOR!!!111!! yeah okay whatevs.
Chisato Madison: 5/10. Joining late? Bad. Having a pretty damn impressive skillset ingame? Worth it. Still, way too late.
*Welch: 4/10. Obscurish, skillset kinda blows for a fighter, but she isn't Ernest.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 10/10. Claude's the best PC by a country mile. Great equips, great skills, great stats. Plus you have him the entire game.
Rena Lanford: 8/10. She's never outstanding but she's always useful. That's worth a bunch of points.
Celine Jules: 5/10. Jeigan sums it up. She's mostly useful for IC and skills early on but can be a support member until Nede.
Dias Flac: 9.5/10. He'd be a ten if it wasn't for two things. Claude existing and Claude getting the triple attack of doom in the PSP remake. He's fast, has Air Slash, deals good damage, has Air Slash, Crimson Diablos competes with the Eternal Sphere for awesomeness and he has Air Slash.
Ashton Anchors: 5/10 Mediocrity.
Opera Vectra: 6/10 Good but pretty much relies on one move. Also sputters out hard if you raise the difficulty.
Precis Neuman: 7.5 BARRIER BARRIER BARRIER BARRIER BARRIER BARRIER BARRIER BARRIER. She has issues with SP and taking hits, but you know what? BARRIER.
Bowman Jean: 3/10. Eclipsed by Precis.
Leon Geeste: 1/10. Celine without what makes Celine good.
Ernest Raviede: 1/10. A point for having Battle Suits to steal. I'm convinced this is an apology for how much he sucks in battle.
Noel Chandler: 0/10. Worthless.
Chisato Madison: 5.5/10. Has potential, but she's a pain to get and takes time to learn.
Write-in: Welch: 3/10. Gimmick character who kinda sucks.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 10/10. See Dune, frankly.
Rena Lanford: 8/10. Again, see Dune.
Celine Jules: 5/10. DAMMIT DUNE GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
Dias Flac: 8/10. Very good, but Claude just feels better in basically every way that counts.
Ashton Anchors: 5/10. Good, not great. Nothing else to say here.
Opera Vectra: 8/10. Fanboyism might be coming into play here. I don't play on the higher diff modes, so I'm also not going to hold those against her.
Precis Neuman: 7/10. Barrier~
Bowman Jean: 6/10. While I like Bowman more, I'll admit that Precis is better. Still find him better then Ashton, though.
Leon Geeste: 1/10. Once again, see Dune.
Ernest Raviede: 2/10. Just lacking across the board. Wish he was better, but so it goes.
Noel Chandler: 1/10. Giving him the same ranking as Leon almost feels insulting to Leon.
Chisato Madison: 5/10. Would be higher if she was earlier.
Welch: 3/10. Yeah, she's kinda not good.
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Claude Kenni: 10/10 (A pretty darn fast normal attack, and on top of that, he's just plain better than almost everyone else. He's got great KMs to boot.)
Rena Lanford: 9.5/10 (Good healer. Not totally necessary, though.)
Celine Jules: 2/10 (Never really has much use.)
Dias Flac: 9/10 (One of the better KMers.)
Ashton Anchors: 7/10 (Good, but not great.)
Opera Vectra: 7/10 (Similar to above)
Precis Neuman: 6/10 (Just... nearly every KMer is a better choice, save Ernest.)
Bowman Jean: 10/10 (Pillspam. It really IS a viable tactic for the entire bloody game.)
Leon Geeste: 4/10 (Is useful for maybe three fights.)
Ernest Raviede: 4/10 (Worst KMer in the game. Still better than the mages for the most part.)
Noel Chandler: 4/10 (He can heal, so he's better than Celine. Otherwise... well...)
Chisato Madison: 7/10 (Has some decent, averagish attacks.)
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Claude Kenni: 10/10 Eternal Sphere is that darn broken
Rena Lanford: 9/10 Mass healing
Celine Jules: 6/10 Early game is useful
Dias Flac: 5/10 Never found him useful at all
Ashton Anchors: 8/10 Good second fighter
Opera Vectra: 9/10 Good fighter and can heal all
Precis Neuman: 7/10 Fun and Quirky fighter
Bowman Jean: 3/10 Useless.
Leon Geeste: 2/10 Even more useless
Ernest Raviede: 1/10 Most useless
Noel Chandler: 4/10 Can use the Bloody armor and can heal all
Chisato Madison: 9/10 Massive multi hit moves and awesome equipment options. Need I say more
Wow My opinions greatly differ.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 8/10
Rena Lanford: 8/10
Celine Jules: 6/10
Dias Flac: 6.5/10
Ashton Anchors: 7/10
Opera Vectra: 5.5/10
Precis Neuman: 5/10
Bowman Jean: 5/10
Leon Geeste: 1/10
Ernest Raviede: Abstain/10
Noel Chandler: 2/10
Chisato Madison: 6/10
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: Smashes things up reaaaaal good. 9/10
Rena Lanford: Only mage worth using from beginning to end. 9/10
Celine Jules: Has early game use. 5/10
Dias Flac: Decent enough fighter. 6/10
Ashton Anchors: Not great until late, yeah. 5/10
Opera Vectra: Meh @ on One hype. Still decent enough. 6/10
Precis Neuman: BARRIERBARRIERBARRIERBARRIERBARRIER~. 7/10
Bowman Jean: Also not great until late. 5/10
Leon Geeste: Celine without the early game use. 1/10
Ernest Raviede: Garbage. 0.5/10
Noel Chandler: Noel. 0/10
Chisato Madison: Eh. 4/10
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 10/10. Not because he is perfect as much as he's clearly the game's best PC, and thus, he sets the curve.
Rena Lanford: 9/10. If the party shared XP KotOR style you would get benched once I had five characters and only get to come out for boss fights. Unfortunately you do not so I have to use you all the time to make sure your levels are up to snuff.
Celine Jules: 5/10. You are a mage in a real-time game, but I have to give you some credit for how useful you are early on.
Dias Flac: 6/10. You have two good KMs and that's all anyone needs. However, you have an awful regular attack that makes you terrible post-game.
Ashton Anchors: 8/10. Not good early on, then he gets Hurricane Slash, and two good KMs is really all you need. Plus Sword Dance for late-game, and then in post-game you just use regular attacks, and Ashton's normal attack is great.
Opera Vectra: 7/10. Pretty good, but becomes shit post-game just like every other fighter who doesn't use a sword or a fist weapon.
Precis Neuman: 5/10. Well, you let me replace Celine in my lineup, and you are generally very good at IC. On the downside I can't get Bowman.
Bowman Jean: 8/10. Poison Pill spam is pretty good. But post-game? Holy shit Weird Slayer makes you almost invincible.
Leon Geeste: 2/10. These two points are entirely for usually being the best IC character in the game.
Ernest Raviede: 1/10. The hell do I need to steal from you to get that armor that earned you your only point? You holding out on me, dickbag?
Noel Chandler: 0/10. There is so much fail here that the only way they could make him good in Blue Sphere was to take Rena out of the game and force you to use him.
Chisato Madison: 9/10. You would rank higher if I got to use you before what is basically end-game. But holy shit tear gas, and then holy shit Weird Slayer making you invincible.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 8/10. buh at the 10's. His early KMs are pretty underwhelming. But that's about all that is wrong with him. Wouldn't give him a 10 even if he started with Dias' Air Slash, though! Different philosophy in what a 10 is I guess.
Rena Lanford: 9/10. She could use more damage, but on the other hand what damage she has is fast and good at tying things up, whether it's her physical or her spells. The healing makes her invaluable anyway, I'd sooner sub out anyone else than her.
Celine Jules: 5/10. Been said. Falls off but good enough early.
Dias Flac: 7.5/10.
Ashton Anchors: 4/10.
Opera Vectra: 6/10. Yeah, Alpha on One is good.
Precis Neuman: 3/10. Unlike Alpha on One, I am not down with Barrier hype, since it needs IC nonsense instead of being gained automatically at a low level. Saves her from a godawful score but yeah.
Bowman Jean: 3/10. Probably biased against him for only experiencing him on higher difficulties where pillspam kinda fails. So it goes.
Leon Geeste: 2/10. Not much to say here. Shadow Flare is good enough when he first gets it to save him from being a 1.
Ernest Raviede: 1/10. But nothing says Ernest.
Noel Chandler: 3/10. I dunno. If you hate using Rena for some reason he is decent. Maybe. ... maybe.
Chisato Madison: 6/10. Found several of her techs solidly impressive.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 9/10, best normal attack. Best overall selection of KMs and best defense.
Rena Lanford: 9/10 Healer in a game where healing items suck
Celine Jules: 2/10 Star Ocean mages
Dias Flac: 4/10 (7/10 in SO2r: better physical): Only has one good KM
Ashton Anchors: 7/10, starts off slow but generally becomes your second best attacker
Opera Vectra: 4/10 has one good KM
Precis Neuman: 4/10, meh I think should could tank well
Bowman Jean: 7/10 PILLS PILLS PILLS PILLS PILLS PILLS
Leon Geeste: 2/10 Star Ocean mages
Ernest Raviede: 0/10, just....wow
Noel Chandler: 0/10, garbage
Chisato Madison: 3/10, joins underleveled
(Welch Vineyard: 5/10, fills in nicely for Chisato and funnier to use)
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Claude Kenni: 8/10. The shaky beginning gets him a point off. Still, badass equips+solid IC powars+game-best KMs once he gets rolling (Ripper Blast is like Linga territory, and that's fucking badass)+strong stats get him -places-.
Rena Lanford: 9/10. Even in my "pester super to break the game into tiny, tiny pieces" playthrough, I found her skillset downright invaluable. She's not only the one mage worth using in SO2 throughout, she's the one mage you probably don't want to go without ever. Randoms are sufficiently dangerous offensively in SO2, let alone the bosses - the healing battery is a life saver, and the support doesn't hurt either.
Celine Jules: 5/10. Earlygame dominance wouldn't make her beyond a 4 for me... but her IC prowess is a key factor in breaking the game more or less from the get-go. 5 you have it.
Dias Flac: 7/10. Excellent KMs, excellent stats. The mults can be a bit problematic, though, but once he gets Illusion, that also starts fixing itself. The equips+stats keep him afloat nicely.
Ashton Anchors: 4/10. Eeeeeh. Shaky stats, the equips don't impress me as much... and he has trash for KMs until Hurricane Slash, which is disc 2. Leaf Slash is okay, but you also sacrifice Opera for him, and that... eeeeeeeegh.
Opera Vectra: 6.5/10. One point off for the lousy stats and weaponry, another point off for the shaky beginning (sure, she gets @ on One early, but you still have two dungeons or so of awesome FLAME LAUNCHERRR zomg). @ on One also isn't so badass as to entirely make her stat issues disappear, but she's good at what she does.
Precis Neuman: 5/10. Ally-Oop! is a loooooooooot of fun, and it's early. She also has pretty acceptable skills even though I never got Barrier - Bloody Mary, for instance, was nice enough. On the other hand, the amount of filler in the rest of the skillset is awful, and reliance on Machinery nonsense sucks too.
Bowman Jean: 4/10. His greater wallability and being even worse at reliably good skills than Precis (although better than Ashton) make me think worse of him.
Leon Geeste: 2/10. Eeeeeeeeeew, SO2 mage at the point where they start sucking.
Ernest Raviede: 2/10. I like Dimension Whip once it's levelled and Broken Heart. He still does nothing Precis or Bowman won't do better, though, and his recruitment requirements are downright byzantine.
Noel Chandler: 1/10. Go to hell. Shitty healer who has nowhere near the depth in relevant support/healing Rena does, joins obsolete from the get-go, has terrible equips -and- piss-poor AI.
Chisato Madison: 6/10. Actually not bad. Equips are so-so, but stats are solid and she gets surprisingly good KMs.
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Claude Kenni: 8.3/10. Claude is very good - Ripper Blast is like the best move in the entire damn game. He has good defense, can get an early Battle Suit in his quest, and is overall great on equipment. Also easy to break the game early...so he's awesome. On the other hand, outside of Ripper Blast...none of his techs were great. Mirror Slice sucks from my experience. Ripper Blast could be his only move (which it is for all intents and purposes), and he'd still be like a 7. The overall set-up is awesome, but early on he's not particularly standout. Once he can get the Eternal Sphere and Ripper Blast...he's awesome. Though can be replaced.
Rena Lanford: 8.8/10. No Battle Suit?! Fuck that - healing, her ultimate weapon is plot gained and excellent (1/2 MP), and she works wonders as a delayer (weak, fast, MT spell to interrupt foes). Her equipment is ok, at least. Items can replace her, but she's still excellent. Could be better in terms of offense, and wishes her equipment draw was better, but her magic is great enough to get her here.
Celine Jules: 5.6/10. Like Rena for the interrupting factor, she's great, especially early. And can deal some damage there. Too bad...her support spells are generally not as helpful as Rena's, though somewhat unique. She's not bad by any means, but feels worse than Rena/Noel for what they do.
Dias Flac: 6.8/10. His Air Slash kicks all kinds of ass. Sadly...man, that's a lot of his worth, that and good offense from his weapons. Getting him means missing out on Leon, as well as a Battle Suit. And he has no crowd control. Equipment draw is at least good, but misses on a few things. Not bad at all.
Ashton Anchors: 7.1/10. Better than Dias. Crowd Control, neat equipment. Feels like he has more good techs than Dias by far - no Ripper Blast here, but Hurricane Slash, Leaf Slash are good.
Opera Vectra: 8.4/10. Ok, so if you can get over the crazy item creation stuff, she's...a great character, possibly game-best. Machinery I've found kind of annoying, unfortunately, and Healing Star is worth a lot for her. Otherwise...Alpha on One is great. She does lose a bit on offense, sadly, but using her as a sub-in healer or supporter is great. Misses on the support skills of Rena, which sucks...but the healing is great and fast otherwise.
Precis Neuman: 6.6/10. She has crowd control...but man, she needs machinery for that. And you miss out on Bowman with her. She's very good, but unlike Opera, who can get by without item creation, she can't as well. And the voice is horrible >_>
Bowman Jean: 7.3/10. Pills are badass. He's also got really good weapons, and some of his other attacks are nice too. Overall good, and better than Precis without machinery, I think.
Leon Geeste: 6.5/10. Support spells are good, and his offense is a bit better than Celine's, particularly because of the less often resisted elements. His weapons are cool too - MP reduction, elemental changes, etc. Can work as a fighter too, which only Rena can really contest with him for.
Ernest Raviede: 5.2/10. Has...one or two good techs. And you get Battle Suits from him (stand out less at this point in time, though). The most missable character, and his weapons...could really be better, though they aren't horrible.
Noel Chandler: 6.1/10. Not as many support spells as Rena, and Foehn is not as good as Star Flare/Light Cross. His physical sucks too. On the other hand...if you want a full Bloody Armour team with healing, he's the guy. He kind of can replace Rena...except you miss the support spells, and the half MP weapon, making him worse overall. He's still decent, but clearly the worst healer here.
Chisato Madison: 7.1/10. Has Precis' equipment but doesn't screw you out of Bowman. Is surprisingly good, and the weapons you get in the CoT actually fit her nicely (Weird Slayer). Has some crowd control too, and fast attacks. She's really good, but can be missed, and is late.
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Claude Kenni: 9. Dreadfully boring but good.
Rena Lanford: 9. If you take her out you're creating a challenge game, with two exceptions.
Celine Jules: 4. Jeigan, yes.
Dias Flac: 5. I've always been unimpressed by his moveset.
Ashton Anchors: 7. Has some earlygame issues.
Opera Vectra: 8. The only character who can realistically take up Rena's healing position, AND a decent fighter.
Precis Neuman: 4. Meeeeeeeeh.
Bowman Jean: 7. Spotty fighter at parts, but generally carries his weight.
Leon Geeste: 1. You suck.
Ernest Raviede: 2. You suck but you are not a mage.
Noel Chandler: 2. Quad Bloody Armor being literally an invincible setup is enough to get him this score I suppose.
Chisato Madison: 6. More impressive than Dias, less impressive than any of my regular picks, so here she goes.
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Claude Kenni: 8.5 Really really good. Fighters rock in SO2, and Claude's the best, but... he is replaceable due to the number of fighters in the game. Still, gets a great score for being unmissable and permanent from the beginning.
Rena Lanford: 9.5 Best Healer in a game that kinda needs it. Later on, she's less necessary, especially if you've chosen a fast team of fighters that just kill things before they move.
Celine Jules: 4. Jeigan, yes.
Dias Flac: 5. He's good, theoretically a decent Claude replacement, but you have to play Rena's story to get him and thanks to the translation, that's clearly the inferior path. Loses major points for this. Also, comes in permanently kinda late.
Ashton Anchors: 7.5. Not amazing at first, but catches up to Claude quickly in a game where Fighters are amazing. Having a second fighter as early as you get Ashton is great, and he stays good. Only problem is that you can't get Opera too.
Opera Vectra: 7.5. Not great for damage, but I like ranged fighters and she's a suitable healer replacement if you just can't stand Rena. Only problem is that you can't get Ashton too. Oh, and her recruitment is a little tedious.
Precis Neuman: 5. She's alright. But why take her over Bowman?
Bowman Jean: 8. Breakin' the game with P-P-P-Poison Pills! And awesome equips.
Leon Geeste: 2. Saved from being a 1 because his stat downs aren't bad, but he really needed Healing too if he was gonna replace my one mage.
Ernest Raviede: 1.5. Late, crappy fighter, you didn't get Ashton, has nothing going for him. He's... usable in that every SO2 Fighter is useable, but why? I suppose if you skipped Ashton, Dias, -and- Bowman, you might have some use for him in a Claude/Precis/Opera team. Maybe. 1.5 works.
Noel Chandler: 2. Has some theoretical use, but the AI makes him end up even worse than Leon, really. If you're good at micromanagement in ARPGs, his healing/magic combo isn't bad for what uses magic has in SO2, but Rena/Celine/Opera are just better all around.
Chisato Madison: 6. Late joiner, so not as useful as Ashton/Claude/Bowman, generally did better than Precis, and I didn't have to give up Bowman for her. Great if you want a 4-person fighter team and don't want to play Rena's horrible chapter. Really shines in aftergame stuff, which, considering when you get her, seems like the intended use.
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I don't really see how which path you prefer for plot should be especially relevant for in-game use score. Quite apart from the fact that SO2 plot sucks either way, to me it only makes sense to consider characters on playthroughs when they are available.
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Claude Kenni: 7.5/10
Rena Lanford: 9/10
Celine Jules: 2/10
Dias Flac: 7/10
Ashton Anchors: 5/10
Opera Vectra: ---
Precis Neuman: ---
Bowman Jean: 5/10
Leon Geeste: ---
Ernest Raviede: ---
Noel Chandler: 1/10
Chisato Madison: ---
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 7/10 He is good but entirely replaceable and when you pretty much have to use him he is far from crash hot. ie, he can be replaced by Opera or Ashton and you don't lose much. Strong postgame presence of course gets him a point.
Rena Lanford: 10/10 You can replace her, there is so very little reason to do so. The only situations where replacing her is really viable involve twinking or powergaming (see Noel with Bloody Armour which is 80% of the way into the game and just plain not needed or Opera with obscure pain in the arse to get rare IC item). This is about ingame use and in game you want to use Rena, the game hands her to you and she never stops being worth your time. This people is the essence of 10/10. Kicks the shit out of Citan for in game use for a benchmark.
Celine Jules: 4/10 She is a warm body early on and when she is a warm body she is still a useful one.
Dias Flac: 8/10 There for 60% or so of the game and is amazingly strong from start to finish, has 2 of his 3 best moves from the beginning. Absolutely unequivocally completely and totally worth using, worth being your choice for who you twink for powergaming in the regular game and holds his own at the end game even with his powergaming potential flaws thanks purely to his equipment draw.
Ashton Anchors: 6/10 Availability is good, fighter, worse longterm than Claude but if you pick him up you probably should be using him. Better gear pool than the other non-Claude/Dias fighters.
Opera Vectra: 6/10 I don't give her healing any points, to obscure, to much work to build up to be usable when Rena has good healing forever and always and from the start of the game and what the fuck is wrong with you people creditting rare postgame shit for in game use. Worse draw in stuff than Ashton, but better moveset, but an expensive one. They are really a good traded pair.
Precis Neuman: 4/10 Gotten at the point you don't need warm bodies anymore, is alright. Yes I am serious she is roughly the same net worth as Celine. They are just warm bodies
Bowman Jean: 5/10 Better warm body than Precis, but not by overly much. Needs to be controlled to be good and there is better choices for controlling and SO2 doesn't have multiplayer. So Bowman can suck it.
Leon Geeste:0/10 Horrible. Waste of time and space.
Ernest Raviede: 2/10 A point for each Battle Suit I guess? Nah not really. Half a point for both, obscure, but very gettable and broken when you do. He is worth 1.5 points as a warm body, he is usable, but there isn't a reason to really do so.
Noel Chandler: 0.5/10 He gets half a point because he is better than Leon
Chisato Madison: 3/10 A late game slightly worse Bowman? Go her? She is usable, more so than Ernest, but fuck you get her so late, how can you stand levelling KMs that late game? Sure I have used her, but that is because I have played SO2 more times than I care to admit, she just really isn't worth using in game.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 7.5 Strong techs, always available, just all around solid and best of the fighters. Though, still replacable.
Rena Lanford: 9 Not broken, but still irreplacable.
Celine Jules: 4.5 Still found her mostly just a warm body even at the start.
Dias Flac: 7 Not as strong as Claude, but still second best.
Ashton Anchors: 4 Not so good, and docked a point for not being that easy to get.
Opera Vectra: 6 Almost as good as Dias, but still easily missable.
Precis Neuman: 3
Bowman Jean: 2
Leon Geeste: .5
Ernest Raviede: 1
Noel Chandler: .5
Chisato Madison: 5 Useful, but comes so very late.
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Claude Kenni: 8/10. Great attacker, generally setting the curve for damage from near beginning to near the end. Ripper Blast is stupid.
Rena Lanford: 9/10. Awesome niche that hards to replace
Celine Jules: 4/10. Sure, warm body for stretch works well.
Dias Flac: 5/10. Less impressed than most. Yeah, his techs are fast, but I think they are tending to be a lot of 1xs. He needs both Illusion and Crimson Diablos to get that damage up there.
Ashton Anchors: 6.5. On the other hand, he has some faster techs that are more damaging and feel like they cover ground better.
Opera Vectra: 7
Precis Neuman: 2.5. Uhh....usuable. I guess.
Bowman Jean: 2.5
Leon Geeste: 1. This Point is Solely for Growth
Ernest Raviede: 5. Favorite spammer PC for me. Distance move+easily spammable+good at breaking guard (In...want to call it Bloody Thorns. Too lazy to look it up).
Noel Chandler: 1. Solely for Quad Bloody Armor (Although...Opera can equip that too)
Chisato Madison: 5. Decent. Actually in a theoretical party I'd want to use when I have everyone(So has that above Precis or Bowman).
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Claude Kenni: 8/10. He's pretty damn good when he gets going. The problem? The early game stuff fails to impress. Good basic physical, but that's really all he has, his version of Air Slash is pretty blech, Shooting stars sucks, and Head Splitter I remember being a little too pricey to make proper use of early game. He's never BAD, but he certainly felt a bit lacking early on.
Rena Lanford: 9/10. Only reason to not use her is if you're a masochist, doing a challenge, or have some team build that can get away without using her, which is hard to find.
Celine Jules: 5/10. Powerhouse early on, pretty crappy later.
Dias Flac: 7.5/10. Air Slash is really all he needs and he can last the entire game cause of how spammable it is. His other moves aren't stellar, but he has a few useful ones, overall worse than Claude though.
Ashton Anchors: 6/10. Has a few good moves like Hurricane Slash and what not, but has similar issues to Claude with less pay offs and takes longer to get going.
Opera Vectra: 7/10. @ on One is most of her worth, Healing Star is bonus points.
Precis Neuman: 5/10. Averagish.
Bowman Jean: 5/10. Felt significantly worse than other fighters.
Leon Geeste: 3/10. Celine without the the early game power.
Ernest Raviede: 3/10. Honestly felt completely useless, unsure if I'm willing to give him credit for Battle Suits.
Noel Chandler: 1.5/10. Gets half a point cause of that Noel Bloody Armor strategy which actually WORKS, the issue is, outside of that strategy, he's completely useless.
Chisato Madison: 4/10. Joins late and she never felt particularly good.
Also, a few things to note:
-Ignoring Plot is something that's strongly urged in this topic, unless its something related to gameplay. For example, if provoking this extra plot scene gets you an extra skill or something and only one PC can do this, that's something you can debate for "In Game Use" (an SO2 example shown sort of shown in this topic could be argued as Ernest's Battle Suits. While not a use in battle, it IS a use of recruiting him, thus debatable whether he should get creds.) Just simply going "Works better in plot!" is more a taste thing, and belongs in a general character ratings, NOT a topic based entirely on gameplay.
-When I vote, that's usually a good indicator that this session will wrap up relatively soon, just cause of how I work! I tend to wait a little while before voting. Don't worry, its not IMMEDIATE, but think of my voting as "WARNING! Session closes soonish, GET VOTES IN!" style post.
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I don't really see how which path you prefer for plot should be especially relevant for in-game use score. Quite apart from the fact that SO2 plot sucks either way, to me it only makes sense to consider characters on playthroughs when they are available.
I said translation, not plot. Honestly, the parts in Rena's path that differed from Claude's (and a few that didn't, but should have due to Rena being the main... >.>;;) were all horribly jumbled and I remember having difficulty figuring out what I was supposed to be doing or where I was intended to go. It really made Rena's path unplayable to me.
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Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 8.63
Rena Lanford: 8.75
Celine Jules: 4.48
Dias Flac: 6.77
Ashton Anchors: 5.91
Opera Vectra: 6.75
Precis Neuman: 5.38
Bowman Jean: 5.47
Leon Geeste: 1.85
Ernest Raviede: 2.06
Noel Chandler: 1.55
Chisato Madison: 5.46
Best Rating of this session: Rena at 8.75
Worst Rating of this session: Noel at 1.55
Top/Bottom lists will come at a later point...when we have an actual number of casts rated and thus make the list actually interesting!
Also, before we move on, wanna make note of two things; this may or may not have already happened in this topic, more just something I forgot:
-If you're rating someone as "0.5" PLEASE type it in as that. Typing it in as ".5" is easy to misread as "5" so for the sake of easy to readness, just type it in as "0.5"
-If you're abstaining on someone, do NOT take them off the list. Either leave them blank, put dashes where the ratings/comments go, outright say "Abstain" or what have you. It makes counting easier, since I can see whose abstaining outright, rather than have to check the people who have shortened lists; this came up actually a number of times in the older topic, and I won't mention whose the culprit <_<
We'll start off now doing two games! If you can't vote on an ENTIRE GAME, you can remove it from your list, I won't mind that! Its mostly just people removing specific characters from a game and rating everyone else that screws everything up (it makes sense if you see how I can this stuff.) ANYWAY, the two games we're dealing with are...
Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight:
Jack Van Burace:
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde:
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl:
Etna:
Prinny:
Flonne:
Hoggmeiser:
Maderas:
Gordon:
Jennifer:
Thursday:
Kurtis:
NOTE ABOUT WILD ARMS: This is specifically Wild ARMs 1, *NOT* Alter Code F; ACF, while a remake of WA1, is a significantly different game in many ways, and thus, not fair to rate characters the same. So rate only if you've played WA1, and ONLY based on THOSE forms.
NATURALLY, Disgaea PCs should be rated entirely on their Disgaea 1 forms (I don't think the remakes changed anything specific offhand?) So none of this "Laharl is awesome in Phantom Brave!" nonsene or whatever (random example pulled out of my ass.)
NOTE 2: I'm aware Prinny isn't a Plot PC, but damn it, ITS A FREAKING PRINNY. Basically, it was put on due to popular demand <_<
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Hoo, this is a simple one.
Rudy Roughknight: 7/10. In WA1, clearly the worst of the three characters. Competitive early on, but as the game goes on he just can't really seem to keep up with the other two. He's hard to kill, yeah, but Cecilia's good enough at healing that it doesn't matter as much.
Jack Van Burace: 9/10. Basically better than Rudy in all the most important ways, being faster and stronger. If you spend enough time grinding secret signs, he can even have ridiculous combat endurance, while throwing 1 MP trump cards and cosmic novas around. And he's got Accelerator and Double Command for the awesome.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 10/10. Cecilia is 90% of both your healing ability and your magical firepower. She's the gross majority of your utility. The things she's not good at, you get not one but TWO characters who are good at it. And hey, Hi-Combine is awesome even if double magic is like double command but not as good.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: Failed to impress, for the most part. His durability doesn't matter a whole lot and I never really got much mileage out of his ARMs. 4.5/10
Jack Van Burace: Eh, sure. Speed was important at times and he had it. Being able to steal Magic Carrots is also a plus. 6.5/10
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: Does pretty much everything, but not quite completely dominating. 9.5/10
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Warning: Lazy.
Laharl: 5/10. Disgaea human.
Etna: 5/10. Disgaea human.
Prinny: 0/10. Disgaea monster.
Flonne: 5/10. Disgaea human.
Hoggmeiser: 0/10. Disgaea monster.
Maderas: 0/10. Disgaea monster.
Gordon: 5/10. Disgaea human.
Jennifer: 5/10. Disgaea human.
Thursday: 0/10. Disgaea monster.
Kurtis: 0/10. Disgaea monster.
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Rudy Roughknight: 7/10. He -is- slow, but he's your most reliable source of offense, and the speed isn't really all that relevant in WA1o. Having multiple, separate resource sources has its perks too unless you're completely anal-retentive about spending resources against randoms.
Jack Van Burace: 4/10. The whatever boy. Starts off solid, but tapers off something fierce in the early midgame and never really picks up enough. In practice, his resources feel more limited than Rudy's, his damage rams into defenses way too much and his utility isn't very good. Game-best speed also isn't as good as it could be, since he isn't very good against randoms either. I guess he makes a reasonable item boy, but how often do you need that in WA1o, especially with Cecilia+Mystic? And how much credit can I give someone whose best use for most of the game is only being an item boy? I'm not tossing 7-8/10s to half the SH1 cast, for instance.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9/10. Mmmm. Not quite 10 material, the stat spread is kinda problematic. On the other hand, she does -everything-. She's your healer, your buffer, your source of offense for randoms after some point, your cornerstone for bosses, your... basically everything. Having one of the best skillsets ever is just too much, and she has the resources to spam them off.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 7/10. Solid.
Jack Van Burace: 5/10. Pulls his weight for the most part but not much more.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 8/10. Good all around, but I hesitate to say she breaks the game outright.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs): Disclaimer- as per standard procedure, I used very few generics in Disgaea 1. I think I might've had a mage and that's about it.
Laharl: 7/10. Sword techs are good, as are his innates, so he built up a quick level lead which, in Disgaea, snowballs. Still, I certainly COULD have used Etna in this capacity.
Etna: 6/10. Alright, but Prinny Raid < Overlord's Wrath.
Prinny: Abstain. I've never really used Prinnies.
Flonne: 6/10. Mages rock, and Flonne was also my healer (although I used a lot of items too). Loses two points for skipping out on the final battle though. Arghlefuck.
Hoggmeiser: Abstain.
Maderas: Abstain.
Gordon: 6/10. Solid enough. Sucks that he's kinda late but so it goes.
Jennifer: 4/10. Late, like Gordon. Unlike Gordon, she doesn't have Axes to make up for the low weapon levels.
Thursday: 7/10. Monsters don't suffer from lateness, so... yeah. Great stats, the innate techs are good, really a boost to the party.
Kurtis: 5/10. Filler, but could be worse.
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Wild ARMs: A general note on games where you can't change your party. I find it much harder to judge, say, Rudy being suboptimal when there's no one to replace him with! Would I rather have someone else? Probably. But I'd rather have Rudy than nobody at all. For Wild ARMs specifically, there's also the tools issue; Rudy is useful because he has tools you can't proceed without, so... Eh. Also, it's been over a decade since I played the original Wild ARMs.
Rudy Roughknight: 6.5/10 I don't believe in going lower than a 5/10 on a character who can't be replaced anyway, unless they're some kind of massive black hole of suck. Rudy isn't, as I recall, and his ARMs can do decent damage to bosses. 5.5, upped by a point because not only do you need his tools, speed skates let you avoid randoms.
Jack Van Burace: 7/10 Best damage dealer and good all around. Tough and useful. But again, it's hard to judge because there's no choice involved here.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 7.5/10 The most customizable by far, almost the sole source of healing and magic damage, and generally not frail enough to fail it up like some mages. However, while she's the utility queen, I don't remember her really dominating (her damage tends to be quite low, for one).
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs): Skipping because none of the cast felt like they rose or fell from a 5, frankly, and I have no benchmark of where a given character was "supposed" to be in terms of levels.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 5/10 - What everyone else said.
Jack Van Burace: Really don't need to elaborate. 7/10
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: Why are you reading this. 10/10
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Wait there was a noticeable difference aside from weapon growths which only really matter at high levels?
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 6.5 - Dunno, I got a lot of use out of him thanks to the fact that he did have separate ammo piles so he had stuff for bosses and stuff for randoms. Not to mention his toughness rarely mattered, but when it did it was a life-saver.
Jack Van Burace: 5 - Glorified item boy with some worthwhile skills. Started decently strong, and picked up some decent tricks late, but never could pull the depth of resource issue Rudy could.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9.5 - Yeah, has the dies too easily issue, otherwise becomes the late randomslayer before switching to the person what keeps you alive and buffs you to absurdity against bosses.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 6.5
Etna: 5.5
Prinny: 0.5 - No real techs, horrific stats, and can't even throw. Just a warm body.
Flonne: 4.5 - Unlike everyone else, you need to get her a mage minion if you want her to be worth anything.
Hoggmeiser: 4.5 - Suffers from being a monster, but that one move where he swaps places with a target enemy is awesome for dealing with all those invincible geopanel fights that are generally BS otherwise.
Maderas: 2 - Can't remember him, thus probably sucked.
Gordon: 4 - Came in too late to really be useful.
Jennifer: 3 - Like Gordon, but with worse techs and weapon.
Thursday: 6.5 - Docked half a point for late entry, otherwise status immunity + only character with noteworthy defense!
Kurtis: 1.5 - So, monster + late arrival + kinda lame stats. Yeaaaaah.
Character Levels: 10/10 - Without this, the game is unbeatable.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 6 - Damage is important. A proto-Raquel?
Jack Van Burace: 7 - Speed is more important. He can actually do things with his turns, especially with proper equips.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 10 - Utility is god. I would rather have 3 Cecilias than the whole WA1 team, despite the uses that Jack and Rudy bring.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 7.5 - Overall, a very useful character. Available from the beginning with a good weapon proficiency. Being a humanoid-type Disgaea character means he can lift/throw, which makes up 90% of the strategy in Disgaea. The levelling snowball effect is prominent with him, in addition to him being a prime candidate for being the master of all your generic PCs. Would be an 8, but Etna exists and the two are practically interchangeable.
Etna: 7 - Suitable Laharl replacement. Like Laharl, you can focus on her from the beginning of the game to start the levelling snowball, which stomps Disgaea's difficulty into the ground. She's got slightly better stats for magic if you like your lead to double as a healer/buffer, but Laharl's starting weapon, Swords, has the better overall utility. Lifting/Throwing is, again, an important factor, and Etna tends to counter more often and her apprenticed generics combo with her more frequently. Balanced out by how awful her techs are compared to Laharl's, and her relatively bad accuracy.
Prinny: 5.5 - Prinnies deal damage based on maxHP when you throw them. Prinny + stacking HP boosters + splash damage = breaking the maps in half. Only useful for being thrown, but they get exponentially better for throwing at the higher classes, not to mention having better transmigration options than the plot PCs. Still, a monster, so it's hard rating it much more than average.
Flonne: 6.5 - Magic is great. Healing is great. Some limited availability issues + needing generic apprentices to get the cost-effective magic puts her lower than Etna. Still, a human-type with some good utility early.
Hoggmeiser: 2 - Has some very situational uses. Monster-type, though. Sucks.
Maderas: 1 - Better statistically than Hoggmeiser, but you'd be using a non-Prinny monster, and he doesn't even have the situational uses.
Gordon: 7.5 - Great utility character. Can be awesome for getting the combo count up with gunner's range. Can be a physical powerhouse with axes. Has the best-range throw in the game and that solves a lot of problems, especially in the Item World. If he wasn't a late-joiner, he'd outshine Laharl easily.
Jennifer: 6 - Human-type, usable. Has good accuracy and counter rate, but that's basically it for what she brings to the table. I think she may have good vertical range? I can't remember.
Thursday: 5.5 - Status immunity + some weird situational uses. Monster-type though. So it's hard to rate it much higher.
Kurtis: 5.5 - Prinny with some unique features, but can't transmigrate into better classes, so it evens out with the regular Prinny.
EDIT: WA1 ratings + broke up the wall of text that was my Dis ratings.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 7/10 - Rocks the damage with his ammo supply, dies slightly less than Jack.
Jack Van Burace: 6/10 - More versatile than Rudy, but has resource issues and general 'meh' for a good chunk of the game. Pretty sexy lategame though.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9/10 - Cecilia.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 8/10 - The damage, it is shiny.
Jack Van Burace: 6.5/10 - Versatile! Fast! Takes a while to actually get going, though, while Rudy's damage is pretty consistently shiny and Cecilia's support is as well. Enough to earn him LVP, but good enough to be a 6.5 regardless.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9/10 - Considered 8.5, but no. After the earlygame struggle, she's easily MVP simply because of the range of options.
Disgaea:
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 7.
Etna: 6.5.
Prinny: 3. Useful for twink-breaking, but that's not maingame.
Flonne: 4.5. Magic didn't impress me maingame.
Hoggmeiser: 0.5. lol
Maderas: 0.5. lol
Gordon: 6. Needs to be earlier.
Jennifer: 4.5. See Gordon. She isn't as good, tho.
Thursday: 6. The one useful monster.
Kurtis: 3. See Prinny. Might arguably be lower but he wasn't terribly reliant on skills IIRC so.
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For Wild ARMs specifically, there's also the tools issue; Rudy is useful because he has tools you can't proceed without, so...
That's like giving FF4 Rydia points because you can't get through that one mountain without her joining. Hell, you can't beat lots of games without certain people joining. That's not the character being good, that's the plot forcing you to get/use someone.
Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 7/10
Jack Van Burace: 7/10
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9.5/10
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 6.5/10
Etna: 5.5/10
Prinny: 5/10
Flonne: 6/10
Hoggmeiser: 1/10
Maderas: 1/10
Gordon: 5.5/10
Jennifer: 5/10
Thursday: 5.5/10
Kurtis: 1/10
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For Wild ARMs specifically, there's also the tools issue; Rudy is useful because he has tools you can't proceed without, so...
That's like giving FF4 Rydia points because you can't get through that one mountain without her joining. Hell, you can't beat lots of games without certain people joining. That's not the character being good, that's the plot forcing you to get/use someone.
Eh, I don't buy that equivalence.
The puzzles are a part of the gameplay in Wild ARMs. A major part of the gameplay. Even if you leave out the required puzzles (which I think sells short their importance to the game), solving certain puzzles gets you optional items that are in turn useful in combat. In Rudy's case specifically, the speed skates also let you dodge randoms in many instances (as does Hanpan getting to chests rather than walking up to them.)
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Wild Arms
Rudy Roughknight - 7.5/10
Jack Van Burace - 8/10
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde - 9/10 (see Snow)
Late!
Star Ocean: 2nd Story:
Claude Kenni: 8.5/10
Rena Lanford: 9/10
Celine Jules: 5/10
Dias Flac: 8/10
Leon Geeste: 4/10
Noel Chandler: 4.5/10
Only rating the ones I at least vaguely remember, not that it matters now >.>
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Eh, I don't buy that equivalence.
The puzzles are a part of the gameplay in Wild ARMs. A major part of the gameplay. Even if you leave out the required puzzles (which I think sells short their importance to the game), solving certain puzzles gets you optional items that are in turn useful in combat. In Rudy's case specifically, the speed skates also let you dodge randoms in many instances (as does Hanpan getting to chests rather than walking up to them.)
Optional stuff, I can see, I guess. Required stuff, no.
-
Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 5/10. Weaker then Jack and to not make him a complete weakling you have to spend a massive amount of money on upgrades.
Jack Van Burace: 8/10. Never lags and if he starts to you know theres a new move coming round that'll make him great again. Owns those hp heavy twits with Soulbreaker.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 10/10. The reason the games easy. Those stat downs/ups are broken as hell.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 9/10. I'd be lying if I said I didn't overlevel him. Overlord's Wrath splatters things even into the endgame.
Etna: 7/10. Felt very much like a weaker Laharl.
Prinny: 1/10. Half a point for the damage it does when exploding. Worthless otherwise.
Flonne: 2/10. Could become really good but why put in the effort really? Annoying also.
Hoggmeiser: 6/10. No idea why everyone is rating him so low. Sure post game he becomes worthless but why should that be counted. I found he actually has game best damage for quite a while with darkness slash until other people get better moves, only becoming bad about 70% of the game in as he never really gets better.
Maderas: 5/10. Better then Hoggmeiser in stats and he lasts about till 90% into the game. I rate him lower as he never really dominates and really only has one move due to the crappy int stat.
Gordon: 9/10. Game best damage, moves are awesome and well, its captain Gordan.
Jennifer: 3/10. Do not remember so she must have been average.
Thursday: 8/10. Doesn't Thursday have badass stats in like all areas? Thats how I remember him so he scores high.
Kurtis: 4/10. His moves are more built around MT then the other characters who mostly target one target. This gets him some points.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 6.5/10. Good damage, no other notable flaws besides variety.
Jack Van Burace: 4/10. Too bad Rudy with a speed medium is faster than him, and Jack with a speed medium is pretty much overkill, as well as having terrible damage (instead of merely worse than Rudy).
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9/10. Utility stuff.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 7/10. Early, good sword and axe rank.
Etna: 6.5/10. Early, good axe rank.
Prinny: 1/10. lulz
Flonne: 2/10. Power of Love is... something.
Hoggmeiser: 6.5/10. Basically second Rozalia. His stats and damage were badass until endgame. Endgame does matter though.
Maderas: 6/10.
Gordon: 4/10. Starting underlevelled on techs sucks.
Jennifer: 1/10. lulz. Fists are so awful, and her weapon level on anything real is a joke.
Thursday: 7/10. 150% affinities are sexy.
Kurtis: 1/10. lulz
Generics are better, so this cast I am fine with averaging a bit low.
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Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 7/10. Rudy is your primary source of damage for most of the game. The fact that Prism Cannon one shots enemy groups for over half the game and that's one of his first ARMs should say something. Like Elfboy said, speed isn't a big deal; he can use a Speed Medium and lose quite literally nothing and be about Jack's speed. Not to mention Lock On makes him do a shit load more damage against bosses.
Jack Van Burace: 5/10. Jack has Healing Blade and that's about it on Rudy; less HP, considerably less damage until Magnum Fang kicks in, and he needs that Attack Medium to keep up...and worst yet, for a good part of the game, he relies on Meteor Drive for consistent damage, or Slash Rave for inconsistent damage. Also, I don't buy Double Draw Hype or whatever, cause he gets it for...how long? And most bosses are dead before you get 100 FP
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9/10. Yeah, absurd skillset is absurd.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs):
Laharl: 7/10. Maybe it was the Imperial Seal, but I seem to recall Laharl had a slightly stronger start than others which tends to be a reason why he's often the "OVERPOWERED" character as a result. Otherwise, he's got good unique techs to compliment whatever weapon he uses, which he's good with several (most notably, Swords and Axes)
Etna: 6/10. Laharl without Swords and Sexy Beam is pretty shitty, especially compared to Overlord's Wrath.
Prinny: 1/10. Uh, yeah, novelty and tutorial factors aside, no reason to use these.
Flonne: 4/10. She's alright if taught magic, but otherwise completely unspecial.
Hoggmeiser: 5/10. I remember him pulling his weight well enough, but didn't have "awesome" damage, just good enough.
Maderas: 5.5/10. Remember him being Hoggmeiser+ once he got an actual physical tech.
Gordon: 6.5/10. Etna plus, I felt.
Jennifer: 6/10. Fists aren't a horrible weapon, but she has some good unique skills to compliment at least.
Thursday: 6/10. Better Monster than Maderas or Hoggmeiser, and has those nice mults and effective status immunity. That's about it.
Kurtis: 2/10. GOOD STARTING EQUIPS!!!! ...that's about it...
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abstain on WA, been forever since I played the original, and never really got most of the optional stuff like Ceci's Parasol.
Laharl: 7/10
Etna: 7/10
Prinny: 5/10
Flonne: 3/10 She can heal at least
Hoggmeiser: 5/10
Maderas: 5/10
Gordon: 3/10 Yeah have a tech with the highest attack... when your a gun user and use tech >_>
Jennifer: 3/10 didnt seem as bad to me as everyone else says she is...
Thursday: 3/10
Kurtis: 1/10 LOL Kurtis.
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WARNING: THIS SESSION CONTAINS SPOILERS TO ONE (MULTIPLE) GAMES. READ THOSE AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION!!!!!
Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 6.50
Jack Van Burace: 6.33
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 9.20
Disgaea:
Laharl: 6.94
Etna: 6.2
Prinny: 2.44
Flonne: 4.35
Hoggmeiser: 3.39
Maderas: 2.89
Gordon: 5.65
Jennifer: 4.05
Thursday: 5.45
Kurtis: 2.40
Best Rating of this session: Cecilia w/ 9.20
Worst Rating of this session: Kurtis w/ 2.40
Just so people are clear, yes, we do things by "sessions" for these "best and worst" ratings, not based on game, hence why we have a best and worst from different games! Why do I do this? Well, the answer is quite simple!
Chrono Trigger:
Crono:
Marle:
Lucca:
Frog:
Robo:
Ayla:
Magus:
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy:
Merlinus(6):
Elphin:
Lalum:
Fa:
Lyn:
*Nils:
Eliwood:
Hector:
Merlinus(7):
Athos:
Eirika:
Ephraim:
Tethys:
Myrrh:
Ike(9):
Mist(9):
Reyson(9):
Elincia(9):
Micaiah:
Rafiel:
Black Knight:
Elincia(10):
Leanne:
Ike(10):
Mist(10):
Reyson(10):
Sanaki:
Lehran:
*Nils applies to both Nils and Ninian, since they're functionally the same character. Just looks nicer putting one person there than both.
Lords are self explanatory. Unique Classes...well, I was pretty arbitrary, but I went with some criteria I'd rather not get into, and I exempted people for reasons I won't get into. So yeah, don't worry, we'll get to those other ones EVENTUALLY. For those wondering about Laguz...I left them off on purpose, cause FE10's list was getting too big, making an exception for Herons...no, Fa and Myrrh don't count as Laguz for these purposes.
Also, for characters like Ike who appear in multiple games, I have their numbers listed so its easier to keep track of, please do not alter the name for this reason.
...
As you may have noticed, yes, we're starting with the LARGE CASTS already! Why? Cause I wanna start getting them out of the way, cause I said so! We started with Fire Emblem last time for large casts...so we're doing it again! This time, I'm adding in some games that weren't ranked last session, but still divviying it up based on Class and such, just cause its easier to keep things organized!
Also, I hope I got everyone <_<
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 7/10. CT goes out of its way, really, to make sure that Crono always has some reason to be useful. Whether by lightning weakness or Magus' fluctuating barrier, it's just good policy to keep him around even if you could get rid of him. Rage Band/Rainbow is a fun setup too, of course.
Marle: 6/10. Alright.
Lucca: 5/10. She likes her special equips but otherwise meeh.
Frog: 6/10. I like the way he combos and generally use him as much as possible, but probably not an objective thing.
Robo: 5/10. Slowness is the CK killer. Death to the slowness.
Ayla: 7/10.
Magus: 5/10. Kinda a novelty due to starting so far behind on skills. Still, fun to play around with.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4/10. Entirely too prone to RNG hate and the promotion is stupid. Sealed Sword is fine and all but at 20 charges doesn't justify it at all. Point for Lilina support though.
Merlinus(6): 2/10. Waste of a party slot since he won't ever level.
Elphin: 6/10. Not up to Nils level and the low move was problematic (If I'd thought about it I've have nabbed those Boots). Still, good at bardy things and gained all the stats he could really, at least for me, so not really all that vulnerable even.
Lalum: Abstain. She's Elphin's counterpart, right? Yeah, didn't get her.
Fa: 2/10. 30 attacks ever? Really game? And then she's forced in the last map for no real reason? Argggh. It's not even like Myrrh who has 66% more attacks and hits weakness on like EVERY ENEMY LEFT. And even if she can nail Mamkutes, they have killer defense so she still can't OHKO them. STILL. The enemies she's forced to fight are all slow ass Mamkutes she can outrun so she's not in the active liability range (so no 1 or 0).
Lyn: 8/10. Mmm, smash.
*Nils: 8/10. Great stuff.
Eliwood: 5/10. Meh.
Hector: 7/10. Good solid unit. Can run into bad speed luck easily, but never bad.
Merlinus(7): 4/10. Could be worse. He's completely free if nothing else.
Athos: 8/10. Great safety net.
Eirika: 8/10.
Ephraim: 9/10. The game really doesn't know how to deal with Ephraim/Tana ripping its face off.
Tethys: Abstain. Never really used Tethys.
Myrrh: 6/10. Novelty unit, but an interesting one. Probably not objectively worth it but could be a lot worse (see above)
Ike(9): 8/10.
Mist(9): 7/10. Being the second healer kinda sucks with my playstyle, but I can't argue with Sonic Sword SMASH.
Reyson(9): 7/10. I feel like FE10 really makes Laguz easier to use and... I dunno, Reyson felt unbelievably squishy.
Elincia(9): 6/10. NOvelty (again). A lot of fun though.
Micaiah: 5/10. Speed. Speed. GAIN SOME GODDAMNED SPEED.
Rafiel: 6/10. Squishy but otherwise excellent.
Black Knight: 7/10. win button. Ditches you when you really need him though (fuck you C3 DB chapters)
Elincia(10): 9/10. WHAT IS FE10 AMITI ON. Oh yeah she's still the flying physic spamming doom healer.
Leanne: 7/10. Took extra babying relative to Rafiel but... Canto.
Ike(10): 7/10. The competition is a lot fiercer, is about how I feel.
Mist(10): 5/10. Meh. Utterly overshadowed by Elincia and losing MAGIC SWORD SMASH means she's just not a viable attacker.
Reyson(10): 9/10. So, canto+fe10 laguz+SUPER BARD+best stats of the herons...
Sanaki: 4/10. Not really worth it.
Lehran: abstain. Haven't bothered to try and get him. Those are some crazy requirements.
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 6. Not bad, and hey, he has Triple Techs with everyone!
Marle: 7.5. Could be higher. Healing is great, but she's a lot more of a liability than some of the better healers in RPGs.
Lucca: 4.
Frog: 6.
Robo: 4.
Ayla: 7. Speed sells it.
Magus: 8. Kneejerk.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4.
Merlinus(6): 2. Jerk just died all the time.
Elphin: Who?
Lalum: Dancer, right?
Fa: 7. Manakete smash.
Lyn: 8. Really solid Lord.
*Nils: 6.5
Eliwood: 3. Try to die less.
Hector: 8. Axes are that other part of the Weapon Triangle that I so rarely use. Hector showed us that they can be useful.
Merlinus(7): 5. Better.
Athos: 8.5 I thought I'd handle that pesky last map for you.
Eirika: 7. Good, but FE8's easy.
Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Tethys: 6.5 All FE bards are right about here.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
Ike(9): 8.5
Mist(9): 5.
Reyson(9): 6.5
Elincia(9): 5.5 IF you actually blow a bunch of bonus EXP on her, she's a good Flyer. Just... so lategame. Good supports with Ike, though!
This time, I'm adding in some games that weren't ranked last session, but still divviying it up based on Class and such, just cause its easier to keep things organized!
That seems like it would inflate good members of a certain class. Just for example, you're looking at all the Archers... you remember that so-and-so was a crap Archer: rate him 2. And that so-and-so was good Archer: rate him 8. Especially since they're right there next to eachother and you will subconsciously compare them. Then you remember that no Archer is worth an 8 compared to a Cavalier. Alternately, it may encourage comparing -only- the classes, so you'll see a lot of All Archers are 4s, all Peg Knights are 10s, or something.
Just not sure it's the way to do it. Especially since you could just divvy it up by game and be running the same number of PCs per session... >.>;;
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 7/10 Real good overall.
Marle: 3/10 Always felt worthless to me.
Lucca: 5/10 FLARE
Frog: 4/10 I want to rank him higher but can't.
Robo: 5/10 Decent enough all around.
Ayla: 6/10 Probably. Least used.
Magus: 6/10 Good, but by the time I get him I'm usually smashing everything fast enough anyway so his MT isn't as useful.
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Chrono Trigger
Crono 8.5/10: Forced most of the game, but why not, he's excellent. Very fast, good damage dealer, combos with everyone. Just BEING forced helps him, because he tends to learn techs earlier than the others who bop in and out. He could have more utility powers, I suppose, but if you only have one healing/utility power, why not make it revival?
Marle 7/10: The first and best healer, and she also has support abilities, so obviously she's going to see a lot of use. But, CT isn't a game with no other serious options (HI RENA) and I ultimately didn't use her all the time.
Lucca 3/10: Lucca is awesome... but not in gameplay. Honestly, she feels like the weakest/least-useful member of the cast. IIRC her lategame damage is good. To get there she'd have to be used regularly, though, and I didn't.
Frog 5/10: Useful at first, but kind of falls off as you get other options.
Robo 5.5/10: Kneejerking him as being better than Frog? He seems better at crowd control than Frog without really losing much.
Ayla 7/10: Joins fairly late but is really good. Charm for stealing, Kiss for healing, and the best physical attacker (aside, I think, from Crono?).
Magus 7.5/10: Magus is only this low because 1. everyone else except Crono (who I feel is a smidgeon more useful) and Lucca (who I feel kind of sucks to begin with) has at least some kind of healing, and 2. he joins late and learns his techs slow. Still, variety of elements + powerful magical attacks + excellent speed + non-fail physical.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes
Ike(9) 10/10: Every time I've played it he's been the runaway MVP, dwarfing everyone else in power by a margin I almost never see in a game. I'm given to understand this is RNG screw for others (Oscar) and RNG blessing for Ike, but it is what it is. Even when he's "weak" he's not exactly Brigandine-Lance weak, having to be babied; he's the fourth-strongest character until Shinon and Gatrie leave (and IMX starts catching up to Shinon by the end of that stretch) and second-strongest prior to promotion. For me he was already the MVP as soon as he promoted (he very nearly soloed the battle with Jill's father on Hard, for example).
Mist(9) 3/10: Gets a point for being useful if she's babied to promotion. But you have to go out of your way to raise her and Rhys is more than adequate.
Reyson(9) 7/10: Only as good as the people around him, but those are pretty darn good by the time he joins. .5 extra because he nets you the Knight Ring.
Elincia(9) 5.5/10: She can be very good, but she joins late, requires a degree of babying and doesn't have anything like the decisive advantage the way she does in FE10.
Micaiah 6/10: -9.5/10 for FAIL. But much as I hate to admit it, she's extremely important in the Dawn Brigade sections of the game, and even when the parties join up she remains a useful caster for long-range bombardment. On the flip side, she ALWAYS requires protection and she takes an endgame party slot that could be put to far better use.
Rafiel 2/10: I wouldn't want more than one Heron and he's not as good as the others. Useful when he's your only Heron, I guess?
Black Knight 6/10: Very hard to rate, IMO. On the one hand, he's obviously far, far beyond other characters when he's available. On the other hand, using him more than the bare minimum leaves the Dawn Brigade even worse than they usually are. On the gripping hand, you do, if not NEED to use him, at least struggle a lot to avoid it.
Elincia(10) 9/10: Now we're talking! Elincia starts out better and has a more comfortable level curve, quickly reaches a point where she needs little or no protection, and provides both mobile healing and powerful attacks. If she were available for a greater percentage of the game she might crack the 10s.
Leanne 1.5/10: Not!Reyson Heron. Manages to be extra-frail even by Heron standard, which is saying something. Also, not really critical for the sequences when she's the only Heron available.
Ike(10) 7.5/10: Instead of being unbelievably better than everyone else, Ike is now merely very good. Oh, he casually pwns many of his own, pre-endgame chapters, but that's a mix of level edge and weapon edge; by endgame he isn't even the best fighter. On top of that, he's not available in quite a few sections of the game.
Mist(10) 7/10: Inferior to Elincia in basically every way, and she has to be built up to be really good. But, it's easier to build her up than in FE9, she's better when she IS built up, and "inferior to Elincia" is not even a knock considering Elincia is the MVP.
Reyson(10) 7.5: Just like FE9 Reyson, except you actually have a choice (and he's the clear leader) and he has more overpowered people to give extra turns to, making him even more of a force multiplier.
Sanaki 6/10: Best mage unless you really, really leveled Micaiah, and maybe even then? Feels about right. But she's not available that long, and mages generally aren't as good as fighters anyway. Her main use is as long-range artillery.
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 8.5/10. Would be 6.5-7 normally (fast damage dealer, forced, no other real tricks) but Lightning is CT's godelement and he's your only source of it until very late game. And I'm not kidding on the god-element thing. Lightning is the bane of so much of the bloody game, and he has no real competition for it.
Marle: 4/10. Good early healer, her tricks and shit aren't worth the later spot though.
Lucca: 6/10. Excellent very early, excellent endgame. The gap in between these two points kinda hurts. Is your only Fire source for a while, tho... oh, right, Lucca gets a shitton of unique equips, especially in DS version. ....sure, 6/10 works with that.
Frog: 4/10. Combos pretty well. Uh. Not much else.
Robo: 6/10. Only source of Shadow for a while, one of your two sources of good physical damage as well. Shines lategame. Shines harder in DS aftergame. Eh, this works.
Ayla: 8/10. Charm. Solid damage, combos brilliantly with Crono and has the best speed to keep up with him. Gets a lightning Double Tech that isn't Spire/whatevertheDSversioncalledit, and that isn't extremely endgame. Backup healer, can remove status. Yeah, for both breaking the game (Charm) or just playing through (tech combos, high damage) she's excellent. Hurts a bit due to late arrival, but hey, nothing much to Charm before that~
Magus: 6/10. Best character, probably (hits all elements, admittedly MT; situational (very) ID, a buff, and brutal Triple Techs if you care and if you drop Crono)... but the endgame joinup? Hurts. Still, probably one of your better choices if you're willing to neglect Double Techs and/or build for the Triple Techs.
Low healer respect after my recent playthrough, stuff tends to suck at damage/you get too many items for me to be worried about a healer. Revival's kinda worrisome since items suck there, but Crono gets a fast, semi-competent revive... Marle's only niche is a full-heal revival. :/
Will look over FEstuff later.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Lyn: 8/10. Damaging, evasive.
*Nils: 7/10. Iunno, I used him a lot.
Eliwood: 4/10. Can be a liability in various cases, I feel. Not a good thing to be able to say of a Lord.
Hector: 8/10. Damaging, durable. Late join compared to Lyn, compensated by being one of the few competent Axe users.
Merlinus(7): 4/10. Cmdr's logic works.
Athos: 6/10. 10/10 for the map he's on, but... uh... wow, join at the end of things much?
Eirika: 6.5/10. Evasive... after a point. Damaging after that point as well. Iunno, never felt much other than "competent, non-Eliwood, can be used" from her.
Ephraim: 9/10. Why hello there BAM BAM BAM BAM.
Tethys: 4/10. Nrrrgh. Splitpath issues IIRC, lateish join, but she is a dancer, and giving Eph more turns is always nice.
Myrrh: 6/10. Athos, trading joining a fair bit earlier for limited ammunition and somewhat odd leveling issues. Competent, still, though.
-
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 4/10. Not an active hindrance, but honestly always felt one of the most replaceable PCs. His magic doesn't impress much, his speed only becomes truly impressive by the time you already have Ayla and is always tied to his weapon and Speed Tabs at that point already exist, making the difference not hard to mitigate. I feel like his forced stint makes him look better than he actually is. And the lategame is where he's at his worst to boot (Lightning starts failing at life as an element and Luminaire's mult doesn't make up for his base magic when everybody's caught up in skills). Lightning is only really -good- on the first two pre-historic dungeons, and that's not a ton of the game.
Marle: 6/10. Unlike Tai, I found her utility worth the spot, and CT emphasizes magical damage a lot, which means her pdur failure isn't as much of a problem. Haste and gamebest healing are worth the trouble, at least.
Lucca: 6/10. Starts off horrendously slow, but she's your strongest mage for most of the game and Fire isn't resisted very often. Also gets good MT early and the speed is fixable.
Frog: 4/10. Worst healer, and has Marle-level offense to compensate! Oh wait no.
Robo: 7/10. Arguably the best physicaller, the utility works well to a degree. The endgame domination ekes him up a point to me, I guess. The MDur hurts, though.
Ayla: 8/10. While I don't give that much credit for stealing usually, you get so much from Ayla's Charm - including Speed Tab abuse. Past that, she also has the highly desirable combo of high speed and good offense, and her MDef actually isn't that bad.
Magus: 6/10. Joining late gives him issues, and he's kinda limited. The speed+MT emphasis are cool, though.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4/10. Goes that high due to pulling his weight in the earlygame and giving Lilina a great support.
Merlinus(6): 1/10. Absolutely pointless in FE6.
Elphin: 6/10. Bard/Dancer, does what he does well. FE6 stat caps hurt, though.
Lalum: 6/10. See Elphin.
Fa: 3/10. Urgh, weapon limitations and starting at L1.
Lyn: 8.5/10. Pretty much great. Two good weapons, good supports, a highly desirable stat spread.
*Nils: 8.5/10. FE7 was where Bards/Dancers were at their best in the games I played. Not ramming into epic failure caps also helps.
Eliwood: 5/10. Very much at the mercy of the RNG. Has solid supports, at least.
Hector: 7/10. Dominates early. Later, his issues start showing through, but he still pulls his weight. Solid supports too.
Merlinus(7): 5/10. Isn't pointless! Later on, he becomes a pretty cool little wall too.
Athos: 8/10. I guess he only exists for a map or two, but he's so goddamn dominating on them.
Eirika: 8.5/10. Much like Lyn, but trades bows for more move. Balances.
Ephraim: 9/10. Godly.
Tethys: 7/10. FE Bard/Dancer with FE7 and onwards stats. No buffs make her less amazing, but she's still fine.
Myrrh: 3/10. See Fa.
-
Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
Must... not... troll..
...must... not... troll...
lolololololololololol
Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
*falls over and dies*
-
Chrono Trigger: is a balanced cast generally
Crono: 5/10. Pretty average. Good speed, okay damage, no variety.
Marle: 6/10. No damage, but great variety. Double techs do bring her up some.
Lucca: 6/10. MVP at endgame for raw offence... fire is great, she generally has the best damage and it's all GT/MT. Protect helps for surviving Grand Stone too I suppose. On the other hand, earlier she is just a bit too slow.
Frog: 4/10. Kinda the inferior healer overall, and damage isn't really any better than Marle's.
Robo: 7/10. Slow early, but this does get fixed as time goes on and everything else about him (damage, healing, variety in general) is just awesome.
Ayla: 8/10. Best physical damage, high speed, some healing (great healing with Frog), high damage combos in general, and stealing... not sure how much credit I should give it, but CT does have the best stealing ever pretty much.
Magus: 6/10. MT melt your face off. Sorta like Lucca, except only around when Lucca is good. But I guess not quite as good since Dark Matter < Flare, so they can get the same score.
Disclaimer: I rate FE on a different scale than most games. This probably makes it a bit easier to get 9 and 10. I may edit some of these if characters are in danger of being overrated in the final standings compared to other games (e.g. Ninian is a 9 to me but so is Cecilia and Ninian probably isn't as good as Cecilia).
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4/10. He's good if you let him cap early, then sucks. But... not very good. Fast Alan/Lance/Lilina supports are his best attribute.
Merlinus(6): 2/10. His function isn't too useful.
Elphin: 7/10. FE bards are always good, these two are worse than most though due to being frail.
Lalum: 7/10.
Fa: 4/10. Exp ranking booster. Probably a 2 if I didn't care about this.
Lyn: 7.5/10. She brings offence. This is cool.
*Nils: 9/10. Dancer + durability + the rings.
Eliwood: 6/10. As befits Eliwood, lives up to neither his hype nor his anti-hype. He's pretty solid but I wanted a bit more speed or durability.
Hector: 7/10. Eliwood trading some speed for quite a bit of Def, which probably comes out ahead. Wolf Beil removes any doubt.
Merlinus(7): DNR, you have no real choice in how he is used.
Athos: 8.5/10. I rate characters based on how good they are when they're around, assuming they're around long enough to have real use. Athos certainly does, Light is a bitch and he makes it much easier.
Eirika: 8/10. Loads of offence (broken weapons help), durability is initially suspect but becomes great, has move on promo. I'd say she's the best lord between FE4 and FE10, but she has to deal with...
Ephraim: 9.5/10. This guy. Dear god. Would be a 10 if not for a somewhat late promotion. Loads of Atk, Spd, Def, and evade. TWO ridiculously broken weapons. Horse on promotion. Yeah.
Tethys: 8/10. Dancer with some cool supports, though not as initially durable as Ninian and no rings.
Myrrh: 3/10. Fa with better stats, but no Exp ranking.
Ike(9): 7/10. His stats are good: durability and speed are very nice, attack is decent... but he competes with the raw broken that is FE9 paladins and fliers and is stuck with the trash that are FE9 swords, so he has no 2 range, a late promotion, can't move after attacking, and only has 7 move. Was one of the LVPs of my Fixed Mode playthrough. That said, still decent enough for this score.
Mist(9): 7/10. Best staff user. Durability could be better, but gets hax offence if you drop Arms Scrolls on her,
Reyson(9): 9.5/10. Reyson + paladin swarm own puny game before it can blink.
Elincia(9): 3.5/10. Lategame filler healer if you desperately need one, but she's not very good.
Micaiah: 6.5/10. Yeah, she needs speed. On the other hand, if she had it she'd probably be broken. Third best unpromoted DB member after Nolan and Jill, provides a devastating offensive punch and then switches over to healer once it's time to no longer fight knights and cavalry.
Rafiel: 6/10. His lack of canto means he loses out badly to Reyson in over half of his available chapters, and generally his personal chapters favour herons less. Still, heron.
Black Knight: DNR I think? No idea how to consider him. Amazing in his three chapters (although worse than Nailah in one and not around for the first 4-5 turns in another) but yeah.
Elincia(10): 9/10. Yay, broken healer with ridiculous offence.
Leanne: 7/10. Again, loses points for competing directly with Reyson.
Ike(10): 9.5/10. I realise I forgot to mention Ragnell in FE9. This is because Ike has it for 6% of his maps so it hardly bears mentioning. In FE10? Try 50%. Broken weapon, broken stats, and Canto units were nerfed so Ike is now looking really, really good. His endgame could be better I guess but whatever, unless you are overrating that (since he's not -bad- there) this shouldn't drop his score much.
Mist(10): 5/10. Uh she's a decent healer in split paths at least.
Reyson(10): 10/10. Even more broken than in 9 now that he has more move and Grass/Stone/Gem options. This says something.
Sanaki: 2.5/10. Kinda bad.
Lehran: DNR, too annoying to get. (and yes, I've done it)
-
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 7/10. Revival is good, and he's got decent damage of both types, but.. well, he's just that. He's decent. Skillset's not bad, damage isn't bad, durability's not bad, nothing stands out as good. Bonus of being available for the whole game, and being forced for most, to help with skillset learning.
Marle: 9.5/10. Healing, revival, Haste, decent magic damage... Part of that godly full-healing combo... Seriously, she only loses half a point despite being relatively slow and frail, since her skillset makes those null points.
Lucca: 5.5/10. She's not bad, but that speed and low durability make her a pain to level up earlier on, and that makes her harder to use later on.
Frog: 8/10. Strength and healing, with some magic backup. The reason him and Robo are both 8s is because he's got the MT full healing with Marle to gain him an extra point.
Robo: 8/10. TAAAANK. Also, MT healing. Both points he's missing are for speed, since he's got good magic and strength, MT healing... He's basically
Ayla: 5.5/10. Found her the least useful by far at endgame. She's relatively useful earlier due to high strength, but she's too much of a one-trick wonder once Kiss stops being useful.
Magus: 5/10. Decent MT magic, but his support is useful in so few situations, and support techs really are the key element in CT. Also, late-joiner.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Eirika: 6/10. I found her strength was low, and her good evasion did not make up for it. Lost a number of times due to her getting killed late on. ;o
Ephraim: 9/10. Eph, on the other hand, is like Ike in FE9. Technically available for the whole game (obviously depends on path, but... yeah, I'll take each of these two on their own paths only) and is a fucking tank who just kills stuff.
Tethys: 7.5/10. See Reyson.
Myrrh: 8.5/10. Amazing in-game, but... wa~ay too late. Gah.
Ike(9): 9/10. Solid durabilities, good strength, 2 range (about 2/3 of the way through the game)... Only thing he could really use is being mounted in some way - flying and Canto are about the only things he's missing.
Mist(9): 6/10. She would be a 9/10 for me, but that's 'cause I lost Rhys early in my first playthrough, so she was dedicated healer for 90% of the game. Her 6 points are for Canto on a healer and for appearing in the Black Knight fight.
Reyson(9): 7.5/10. Double-use is always good fun. Shame he's frail with low movement.
Elincia(9): 5/10. Late-game healer. Doesn't really do much else, since she's too weak/frail to kill stuff and you can't risk putting her in danger.
Micaiah: 6.5/10. Decent-ish mage, but nothing special. Gains a point for free healing.
Black Knight: 9/10. Yeah, tears shit up. Loses a point for experience stealing.
Elincia(10): 6/10. Marginally better than FE9. Available for more and stronger, but also loses a point for that retarded "Keep Elincia safe!" stage where she's an ally. (Since she's allied, yes, I count this as part of her in-game use.)
Ike(10): 8/10. Exactly like the FE9 one. Tank, good strength, could use Canto/flying. Loses an extra point for being available less and for having a wider choice of alternatives in FE10.
Mist(10): 2.5/10. ahahahaha. Biggest drop from FE9, where she was actually useful. Now, Mist is too slow/frail to do anything worthwhile, and there are MUCH better healers available from near the start (as opposed to just the one for the majority of FE9)
Sanaki: Ehh. 2.5/10. Late-game and there are better mages available, and mages in FE10 aren't even that great.
I'm probably missing a lot on CT, but this is just from my playthrough, so it seems fair to judge on that for in-game use. Can't remember FE10 well enough to comment on some (herons, mainly), so... nothing there. =P
-
2 range (about 2/3 of the way through the game)
You have pretty interesting math if Chapter 28 out of 29 is 2/3 of the way through the game. <_<
That or you mean the 25-use-per-game Sonic Sword which is better used by someone with an actual Magic stat such as Tanith or Mist since they can actually one-round enemies with it.
-
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 9/10. Always useful with good melee and good magic.
Marle: 4/10. Meh.
Lucca: 4/10. Mehx2.
Frog: 3/10 Meh.
Robo: 3/10 Mehx4.
Ayla: 6/10. Charm's useful and her techs are nice.
Magus: 8/10. Comes late but is really damned useful for when you have him.
I could do FE7/8 but I can't make myself care enough to.
-
2 range (about 2/3 of the way through the game)
You have pretty interesting math if Chapter 28 out of 29 is 2/3 of the way through the game. <_<
That or you mean the 25-use-per-game Sonic Sword which is better used by someone with an actual Magic stat such as Tanith or Mist since they can actually one-round enemies with it.
Ehh, misremembered, apparently. Either way, doesn't change much, since that was mostly about it being late-game anyways.
-
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: Decent enough. Trashy magic stat keeps his magic from being too brutal. 6/10
Marle: Early healer. Okay at utility but needs to not be so slow. 5/10
Lucca: Best mage, but again, speed issues. Though those get slightly better. 5/10
Frog: LVP. Not much good at anything, really. 3.5/10
Robo: Tank. Except against magic though CT wasn't really good about punishing that I don't think. 7/10
Ayla: Smashes and steals. While she's great at the former, offense is not a huge concern in CT, and the stealing, while nice, is not invalueable. 7/10
Magus: Needs to be around more. 5/10
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: Late promotion hurts so much. 4/10
Merlinus(6): Uh, there's no real point to brining him on maps ever. Abstain.
Elphin: Eh, bards are useful on paper but never really panned out that way for me. 5/10
Lalum: See Elphin. 5/10
Fa: Hahaha to caring about ranks. The weapon limitation/starting at Lv1 make her garbage. 1/10
Lyn: Speed is cool. Not as relatively useful later due to lolFE enemies but having it early is nice. 7/10
*Nils: Well, they defailed the caps and gave him buffs. 7/10
Eliwood: See NEB. 6/10
Hector: Tank lord. This is cool. 7/10
Merlinus(7): Abstain.
Athos: Hmmm, on the one hand, he's a one-chapter wonder. On the other hand, he's dominating in that chapter. Hm... guess 6/10 works?
Eirika: Lyn+ with a better unique weapon but a later promotion. 7.5/10
Ephraim: Good lord the cheese he brings. 9/10
Tethys: Nils minus the buffs. 6/10
Myrrh: Oh look it's Fa with 20 more weapon uses. TOTALLY AWESOME AM I RITE. No, seriously, wtf at the hype. 2/10
-
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4/10. What everybody else said already. Hurt a lot by his late promotion and is mostly beneficial as a support partner to two of the best units in the game (Hi Alan/Lance!). SoS is hax but he gets that even later than Ike and his Ragnell IIRC. So lol to that.
Merlinus(6): DNR. 1/10 if we have to rank him and 0 is not an option. Random basically sums it up.
Elphin: 6/10
Lalum: 6/10. These two get the same score because they pretty much have the exact same problem but exact same strengths as well. Caps suck (Hi 20 stat caps) which obviously doesn't help them at all.
Fa: 2/10. Ew. L1 + limited weapon use? But at least she is not Sophia and can actually hurt something.
Lyn: 7/10. Offense is nice. She can hold her own for a little while even without some strength growth. Fast A support with Florina helps her out and its a mutual beneficial support to boot. Bows are a nice edition on promotion giving her a range two option. She does take a while to get going though which is where I deduct some points. Not all that amazing early on but is pretty good and worth fielding later.
*Nils: 8/10. Hey guys, the fail caps are gone! Also, we now have additional stat booster rings!
Eliwood: 5/10. Exactly what you would expect. Gets a horse on promotion and a 2 range option. Promotion is delayed on his story however and his stat spread is made such that he's completely dependent on the RNG to determine what he does. With like an equal 33/33/33 for screwed/average/blessed >_>.
Hector: 7.5/10. Hector's speed is harder to fix than Lyn's strength. But his defense is worth more in the early on chapters before the two become really good. Hector also has the whole delayed promtion on his own story so that also holds him back. Still, both are better than Roy by miles.
Merlinus(7): DNR since his function isn't necessary as a combat unit (more like item storage). If we actually rank him, he's probably a 4 or something. Needs to be babied before his promotion. Then he becomes super master donkey rider and never gets hit because of fail hit on enemies >_>
Athos: 7/10. Yeah, he's makes LIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiight! a joke. But getting him so late means he can only do so much.
Eirika: 7.5/10. Similar spread as Lyn IIRC. No 2 range option BUT she does get a horsey, so I guess the two balance off. Later relative promotion to Lyn also holds her back a bit and I think the stat growth dependent on Eph route or Eir route also change things a bit, so...
Ephraim: 9.5/10. I have no idea what you're on Djinn >_>. Eph is like...retarded. Stupidly good bases, great stat spread, 2 broken ass weapons, horse on promotion, good support options...he can pretty much ONE MAN the entire Normal game after a little while with no trouble because he's so retardedly good even compared to everyone else in his game. The only thing holding him back is the promotion time. His stat caps hurt, so Eph's one of the few non FE10 type characters that actually has a pretty good chance of hard ramming into the caps. However, this doesn't subtract any points from his score because no enemy even reaches the point of where Eph goes "man, I wish I had better caps" ie: They won't matter unless you do Link Arena.
Tethys: 7/10 I suppose. Not as good early and lack of rings is enough for a point.
Myrrh: 3/10. Bleh. I can appreciate rankings, I just never really cared much on them. But Fa with better stats is a good enough boost.
Ike(9): 8/10. Largely solid for most of the game. His promotion isn't delayed like hell like the other previous lords. Ike also has some decent support options in there, one with one of the best units in the game. He never quite dominates though. I blame hax mounted units. Hi Oscar.
Mist(9): 6.5/10. Is a healer. You have to blow an Arms Scroll (or was it two) for her to use the SS so there is a definite opportunity cost there (along with the Hammernes needed for fixing its limited charges). She's faster than Rhys, but needs to be caught up a bit so you're likely blowing some BEXP there. On the other hand, she also gets a horsey on promotion.
Reyson(9): 9/10. Hey guize, I can gives 4 of really gud unitz to muv again. Broken as hell, but doesn't have innate move and act again and has to wait a while to refresh 4 units.
Elincia(9): 3/10. What CK said. Pure novelty unit and you have an extra objective of keeping her alive if you deploy her. But still, flying staff user is pretty neat and she can be a decent second healer of sorts.
Micaiah: 6.5/10. Speed is bad, but she can at least make up for it a little bit due to the 1-2 range option, Thani, Sacrifice/Wrath/Resolve combos. Later on, you use her primarily as a healer (or should) instead of for pure offense. Really frail, but that can be said for many of the units on the DB team, so it hurts her less relatively.
Rafiel: 6/10. Frail + No canto + loses move on transforming hurts a ton.
Black Knight: DNR. For all that he rules face in 1-9 (One survives). Lesser credit on 1-E, 3-6 and 4-3 (lol2move).
Elincia(10): 9/10. Amiti: 15 might unbreakable Brave sword that adds +3 to both defensive stats. That alone would be what, but then she also has some awesome growths, flight and is adequate in combat to boot. Don't see why you would deduct points for her being controlled by the AI - that's like deducting points away from Haar because he doesn't actively seek out your party and talk to Marcia, thereby causing you to waste a tun on offense talking to him.
Leanne: 7/10. Still really frail and now she can only refresh two units at a time, but hey, Canto!
Ike(10): 9.5/10. Um...the best analogy I could draw is that Ike is pretty much the same as Eph barring bad Res and no horsey. However, both of these factors are mitigated due to low frequency of mages (specifically ones with crit) and calvary units being hit pretty hard by terrain in FE10. Earlier promotion, still hax bases, decent enough growths, best support affinity, and broken ass weapon that actually has a good 2 range option for many maps to come probably makes him equivalent to Eph. Still not the best unit in this game. (WHAT)
Mist(10): 5/10. Worse relatively and she starts off pretty damn bad. However, she's still the best healer on the GM route unless you crown Soren early. So she has a decent period where she is helping out.
Reyson(10): 10/10. So um...yeah. Take FE9 Reyson. Now give him innate canto, and the ability to practically instant transform into Heron form so he can refresh 4 units from turn 2. Then give him loads of items to maintain his transform state. Yeeeeeeeeah. Why helo thar free 4 units getting to act again
Sanaki: 2/10. *gets Meteor'd in the face across the field by Tal*
Lehran: DNR for all intents purposes. Otherwise, 5/10 I guess? He starts off away from the main group and you need to have someone give them a blessed tome for him to do any work. On the other hand, his stats are certainly great and he can help out defensively even if you don't have that extra blessed tome on hand.
-
I must confess, I have no idea how to rank CT characters. The entire game is basically "just pick any three characters you want and you will plow this game in the ass."
-
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 6/10
Marle: 6/10
Lucca: 5/10
Frog: 4/10
Robo: 7/10
Ayla: 7/10
Magus: 6/10
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: can i rate ssbm form/10
Merlinus(6): what/10
Elphin: who/10
Lalum: who/10
Fa: can i rate srw form/10
Lyn: 8/10
*Nils: 8/10
Eliwood: 5/10
Hector: 6/10
Merlinus(7): tent/10
Athos: 7/10
Eirika: 8/10
Ephraim: 8/10
Tethys: 6/10
Myrrh: 6/10
Ike(9): 8/10
Mist(9): 8/10
Reyson(9): 7/10
Elincia(9): 6/10
Micaiah: 6/10
Rafiel: 6/10
Black Knight: 7/10
Elincia(10): 9/10
Leanne: 7.5/10
Ike(10): 9/10
Mist(10): 6/10
Reyson(10): 8/10
Sanaki: 4/10
Lehran: lame/10
-
Missed last one, sad.
Wild ARMs:
Rudy Roughknight: 7.4/10. Smaller parties tend to have characters more valuable, really. For Rudy...he is the tank of the group, and once money gets put into his ARMs he can do crazy stuff to randoms and bosses alike. Theoretical max damage is the lowest (can't break 9999), he's slow, but that's about it. Loses a bit for not being around for a point, but he's still good.
Jack Van Burace: 7.9/10. Having some speed is nice, and he works as a support healer and/or offensive clearer. The stealing puts him a little above Rudy, as his variety is better, but they're both there to fill similar roles. Feels relatively indispensable.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde: 10/10. She has everything...somewhat frail, but the only source of so many important skills - MT healing, support...just...yeah. My criteria for 10's is not extremely harsh - basically just people that kick ass. Cecilia fits that.
Disgaea ("Plot" PCs): So few comments...everyone that's not a monster is around a 5.4-5.8/10. Yeah...
Laharl:
Etna:
Prinny:
Flonne:
Hoggmeiser:
Maderas:
Gordon:
Jennifer:
Thursday:
Kurtis:
-
Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
Must... not... troll..
...must... not... troll...
lolololololololololol
Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
*falls over and dies*
Seriously. Not. Cool.
You may disagree with my statement, but you made a post to point and laugh and didn't even present an argument.
I haven't played FE8 5 billion times like you FE fanboys. I played it once, and Ephraim wasn't all that useful and causes gameovers if he dies. Manaketes start at Lv 1, but they're still useful right out of the box and I was always able to throw them at things for smash. They were excellent for high-HP units that I didn't want to waste time chipping down or risking my mages with.
And again. Not cool, Ciato. Have some respect for playstyles not your own.
-
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 8/10
Marle: 7/10
Lucca: 5/10
Frog: 7/10
Robo: 7/10
Ayla: 8/10
Magus: 8/10
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 5/10
Merlinus(6): 0/10 Doesnt do a thing. Wastes a slot.
Elphin: 8/10
Lalum: 7/10 Think Elphin had better durability
Fa: 2/10
Lyn: 9/10
*Nils: 10/10 I love dancers
Eliwood: 6/10 average +1 point for rapier
Hector: 10/10
Merlinus(7): 10/10 Doesnt take up a slot, awesome distraction once he can move
Athos: 10/10
Eirika: 9/10
Ephraim: 10/10 As much as I bash DL Ephraims speed, in game his low cap doesnt matter
Tethys: 9/10 Doesnt have Nilsians rings
Myrrh: 7/10 I got her to 20 with about 25 uses of her stone left. Thats good enough for the final fights
Ike(9): 9/10
Mist(9): 8/10
Reyson(9): 9/10
Elincia(9): 5/10
Micaiah: 8/10
Rafiel: 10/10 Herons are hax
Black Knight: 10/10 I'd give him higher if I could. Guy literally cannot die like ever
Elincia(10): 10/10
Leanne: 10/10
Ike(10): 10/10
Mist(10): 6/10 Just seems way worse than her FE9 self
Reyson(10): 10/10 Herons> all
Sanaki: 5/10 shes okay if you raise her
Lehran: DNR Second playthrough and annoying requirements to get? No thanks.
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 7.3/10. So many characters in CT are so replaceable. Crono...I tossed him as soon as I could. Granted, does not mean he's bad. His combo techs are very good - they keep the party afloat for a long time, and, really, suffice to keep the party afloat for a long time. Objectively, excellent.
Marle: 2.1/10. The healing would be good if it were MT...as it is, items heal better, and support spells...really aren't as good in practice as they should be. Just...bleh. She's not good. Her offense is bad, and she's a liability to damage.
Lucca: 5.3/10. Has offense, but is barely more durable than Marle, but her other stats are better, and she has some additional elemental defense variety. The MT offense is at least good enough, and her techs are good, particularly with double and triple stuff.
Frog: 4.9/10. With MT healing and some offense, owns Marle. Ends up being relatively average, which makes him a little worse compared to the rest of the cast.
Robo: 6.8/10. Objectively great....I don't know. MT healing is nice, and he's durable, and his offense is good...he doesn't do great with techs, his Crisis Arm can be hard to control, and some of his other skills aren't great...at least he does have shadow damage.
Ayla: 9.0/10. Stealing kicks ass, and her speed/other abilities are good enough to keep her high. It's hard to replace that.
Magus: 7.3/10. Status immunity, good durability overall, fast, hits all elements...he's good. Even the late start hurts not that much - the sidequests give craploads of experience and tech points.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes: WARNING - RNG FUN ENSUES
Roy: 5/10. Promotion
Merlinus(6): 5/10. Holds items.
Elphin: 6.2/10. Can't break defense at all - worse STR than Lalum.
Lalum: 6.5/10. Better overall stats.
Fa: 5.5/10. Catches up fast, but feels...far weaker than Myrrh, respectively.
Lyn: 6.8/10. Awful STR, but decent everywhere else. Also, has a bow.
*Nils: 7.1/10. DANCES AND PLAYS WITH RINGS
Eliwood: 0.1/10. Awful. Gains nothing but luck, is a horrible liability on all maps...the horse helps, but not enough to make him salvageable.
Hector: 9.1/10. Kicks ass, best axe user in the series. Gains loads of speed, defense...everything. RES is a little weak, but...yeah. Solos the game.
Merlinus(7): 6.2/10. Items with ninja evasion.
Athos: 6.2/10. Feels like he's only an insurance policy...if you make it this far, you probably don't need him. Still does trivialize the final area of the game.
Eirika: 8.2/10. Solidly statistically strong super special.
Ephraim: 9.1/10. Better and hotter than Eirika.
Tethys: 6.5/10. Lalum.
Myrrh: 7.9/10. Hates not having weapon charges, but at least delivers way, way more than Fa.
Ike(9): 9.1/10. Very balanced and excellent overall.
Mist(9): 7.5/10. Mounted healer is excellent.
Reyson(9): 7.5/10. Excellent
Elincia(9): 7.5/10. Mounted flying healer, though less offense.
Micaiah: 7.0/10. Fast, physical tank, which the Dawn Brigade loves. Offense is a little shaky, but...she works well.
Rafiel: 7.5/10. Wants Canto....
Black Knight: 9.3/10. Unbeatable for two very important maps...not helpful for the 3rd, but...Enough of a help in the other two I don't care
Elincia(10): 9/10. Frailish, but...otherwise super special awesome.
Leanne: 8/10. Flies with Canto.
Ike(10): 9.1/10. Same as above.
Mist(10): 8.4/10. Fast, excellent growth everywhere...yeah.
Reyson(10): 8.8/10. Best Heron overall.
Sanaki: 6.8/10. You have at least most elements with her! And a unique weapon.
Lehran: 7.5/10. Stat power?
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Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
Must... not... troll..
...must... not... troll...
lolololololololololol
Ephraim: 6.5 Good, but FE8's easy and others can do his job better.
Myrrh: 7. Manakete Smash.
*falls over and dies*
Seriously. Not. Cool.
You may disagree with my statement, but you made a post to point and laugh and didn't even present an argument.
I haven't played FE8 5 billion times like you FE fanboys. I played it once, and Ephraim wasn't all that useful and causes gameovers if he dies. Manaketes start at Lv 1, but they're still useful right out of the box and I was always able to throw them at things for smash. They were excellent for high-HP units that I didn't want to waste time chipping down or risking my mages with.
Well, here's the argument: Ephraim joins early, has amazing bases, excellent growths, good supports+affinity and starts with a horrifyingly broken weapon he can get multiples of - his risk of causing gameovers is downright minimal because he's a tank in all regards: good HP, good evade, good defenses and even his Res isn't terrible, only very slightly below average - his Fire affinity augments his offense, accuracy and evasion further, and he has such good stats for offensive purposes that he makes even fucking Javelins scary - oh and he gets a second broken weapon that's likely to overkill monsters gruesomely (and really, with the +5 Str -and- 20+ MT, it's going to mangle the vast majority of everything ever), because Reginlef wasn't retarded enough. Meanwhile, Myrrh still joins underlevelled, her stats aren't terribly impressive until she gets those few levels, she joins very late and her -only- weapon is both limited and practically unreplenishable, not to mention she doesn't even get the time to build those supports properly (and hey, you have her attack like 45 times and she's now a pointless warm body forever). In a vacuum, sure, she can do smash, but couldn't Ephraim do that just as easily with superior supports -and- practical survivability, and he's been doing that the whole game with cheap storebought weapons to boot? It's also worth noting that, while Eph hits his speed cap on average, the only enemies that he ends up not doubling in endgame are like the Cerberus guys, and that's in like Hard Mode. Not to mention Myrrh certainly isn't immortal against magic, and if you're even remotely concerned about permadeath, -anyone dying- is a reason for a reset, so I don't think it's fair to hold it against Eph while letting Myrrh get a free pass regarding that. I'll be honest and say that your opinion there baffles me as well, and you don't need multiple playthroughs to realize how far apart Myrrh and Eph are in actual worth short of inane RNG rape - which Eph is borderline immune to as well. I'm really wondering who the hell could do what Eph does better than himself - he tanks like a champ, hits like a truck and even has a viable range 2 option for cheap due to how good his stats are. You just don't get any better than that in a GBA FE.
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 7/10
Marle: 5/10
Lucca: 4/10
Frog: 5/10
Robo: 7/10
Ayla: 7/10
Magus: 7/10
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Lyn: 8/10
*Nils: 5/10
Eliwood: 5/10
Hector: 8/10
Merlinus(7): ??
Athos:7/10
Eirika: 8/10
Ephraim: 9.5/10
Tethys: 6/10
Myrrh: 4.5/10
Ike(9): 6/10
Mist(9): 4/10
Reyson(9): 8/10
Elincia(9): 3/10
Micaiah: 5/10
Rafiel: 5/10
Black Knight: -
Elincia(10): 8.5/10
Leanne: 6/10
Ike(10): 9/10
Mist(10): 2/10
Reyson(10): 10/10
Sanaki: 3/10
Lehran: -
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Assuming that you don't worry about Permadeath (thought I would cover myself since I'm also in the baffled crowd of scoring Eph lower than Myrrh), Eph's chances of dying shouldn't even be a huge factor into the equation. The only time that I've personally factored "causes game overs" into is FE9 Elincia. This is because:
a) Elincia is actually at a very real risk of dying since Tigers/Dragons/enemies with Bows do tons of damage to her. She's nowhere near as evasive as her FE10 incarnation and
b) I have the option in some maps not to deploy her which is then compounded by
c) Deploying her means I have to actively set a few guards around her when enemies start crowding or having the ability to reach her, thereby slowing me down and thus becomes less efficient then if I just deployed a much stronger unit who can take punishment.
Using this same type of analysis for all the other FE lords, you can argue that you don't have to actively use Eph, thus the possibility of a game over could be used against him. However, Eph also the best defensive/offensive stat spread ever. What makes Eph good is that even if his raw defense fails, he can still rely on some evasion (thanks to good speed and decent Luck growth). Having a spear means he's often just going to be neutral against human enemies instead of a WTD, erasing his evasive lead. On the other hand, if his speed suffers a bit and gains less dodge, he still has a chance at acquiring defense. Thus, the actual risk of Eph dying (despite the fact that he can cause game overs) and lose you the game should end up being very slim or no greater than any other lord in FE7/FE6. And while PEMN, hinode once ran a playthrough where his Eph was Def screwed and Eph was STILL one-manning the entire enemy army. Oh, and given how FE8 is "easy", shouldn't the chance of Eph causing a game over be even less then?
I'm also not sure about which high HP units you are referring to because for most of them, Eph is going to double, outside of the odd Cerberus. If its a monster, he is going to be hitting weakness and dealing a ridiculous amount of damage anyway. Even without weakness hitting, Eph's also more likely to have crit (even with a regular Silver Lance) for whatever that is worth thanks to Fire affinity and he has some really good support options in there to definitely at least have one built up (Eirika/Tana are both really good. L'Arachel's decent too). He's never so offensively behind Myrrh unless you downright avoid using him, so the chances of Myrrh being able to one round something that Eph cannot should end up being pretty slim. The gap gets closer once you remember Eph's support adds to his raw Might to boot. Also keep in mind Eph starts off really good already. Myrrh starts off significantly underlevelled, has Arrow weakness, and until she gains a few levels where you have to pretty much give her some kills (which probably means you are chipping), she remains weak. If you consider aftergame at all, then Eph wins forever and ever because he's never even going to be worried about weapon charges where as Myrrh has 50 altogether outside of Mine tricking the system and getting more.
I can certainly see Eph losing to maybe someone like Gerik/Colm who are also great in FE8. But the difference between Myrrh and Eph is staggering, even putting aside play styles.
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At the risk of completely derailing the topic:
Djinn: Be less of a sensitive bitch-boy.
FE dissertations: *Facepalm.*
I'm done. Continue on.
EDIT: So it's on topic.
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 8/10
Marle: 8/10
Lucca: 3/10
Frog: 4/10
Robo: 7/10
Ayla: 7/10
Magus: 5/10
Ike(9): 10/10 (Argue with me. I don't care.)
Mist(9): 1/10 (Never used)
Reyson(9): 10/10
Elincia(9): 1/10 (Never used)
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Djinn: Be less of a sensitive bitch-boy.
I'm done. Continue on.
Because I'm sure -you- would just sit there quietly when someone goes out of their way to laugh in your face... >.>;;
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On a less condemning note, are you assuming tricking the game into giving you Fire Stones for Fa, Djinn? Without that I'm not sure how she has enough gas to contribute at a 7/10 level after getting her trained (and given the awful starting stats she can't just try and fight things at level 1.)
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Djinn: Be less of a sensitive bitch-boy.
I'm done. Continue on.
Because I'm sure -you- would just sit there quietly when someone goes out of their way to laugh in your face... >.>;;
Over this? I'm not 17 any more. Even if I was still into the DL I'd like to think "MUST NOT TROLL YOUR CHARACTER RANKINGS LOLZ" wouldn't make me as touchy as it seemed to make you.
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If you two wanna argue and get into it, take it elsewhere. Go yell at each other in chat or something.
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OK, I gotta ask: How are you arriving at all these .2s and such? Are you like... checking accrued XP or total kills against each other or some other metric of use?
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He's trying to be cute and be ULTRA SPECIFIC cause I asked to not do "x.75" and such cause that was really annoying me in the other topic (he was the only one doing that; people doing x.5s was rare initially, OK decided to abuse the fuck out of it and then go as far as x.25 and x.75). Generally, he's not doing a good job of it if you ask me, cause I don't believe for a second he actually thinks they're necessary and is trying to be different, etc. Gourry a while back did a better job rating things out of 255 just to annoy someone, if you ask me <_<
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 6/10. Invaluable for the pre-historic sections, average everywhere else.
Marle: 2/10. Healing in Chrono trigger? *Laughs*.
Lucca: 3/10. Better offence then the healers but besides that she hasn't got much.
Frog: 3/10. Has better offence then Marle which is something I guess.
Robo: 9/10. Robo has some of the best moves in the game. Is also Rick Astley.
Ayla: 9/10. Stealing, good offence, speed and allowing you to skip a stealth section are worthy of a high rating.
Magus: 9/10. Never cared for double techs so his failing doesn't matter to me. Good physical, has all the elements, your best source of dark damage, status immunity, MT damage is actually good and to top it all off he has massive reserves.
Micaiah: 7/10 Very easy to powerlevel but isn't that special till the end where she can attack/heal long range.
Rafiel: 7/10. Doesn't require a stone to refresh 4 people so he isn't bad.
Black Knight: 7/10. Hard to give a rating really. He is simply unkillable but at the same time limited use and you never want to use him.
Elincia(10): 9/10. Flying, healing and has some great damage to boot. Comes a little underleveled at the end but due to being a healer thats easy to fix.
Leanne: 2/10. She isn't completely horrible but overall there are far better choices and she sucks in part 2.
Ike(10): 6/10. Doesn't change much of anything. Other people can do what he does without the crappy Res and this matters. While the game is mostly a simple walk in the park it does pick up in the end where guess what. Near enough all the bosses are mages and some long range casters are thrown in as well, this means if the AI decides to screw Ike over it will. From what I've seen if Ike gets a Status effect on him then the mages are going to bomb him to hell and in the Lekain fight you have a long range status slinger and two long range mage guys so yeah. Is also useless against the final boss and I will hold that against him.
Mist(10): 3/10. Elincia exists and she just isn't needed in part 3.
Reyson(10): 8/10. Great no doubt but I have had a couple of resets due to those bastard long range mages.
Sanaki: 3/10. Her problem is Micaiah and Soren exist. She'll be the third mage in the battle and who wants three mages?
Lehran: 8/10. Helps a ton on hard mode.
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He's trying to be cute and be ULTRA SPECIFIC cause I asked to not do "x.75" and such cause that was really annoying me in the other topic (he was the only one doing that; people doing x.5s was rare initially, OK decided to abuse the fuck out of it and then go as far as x.25 and x.75). Generally, he's not doing a good job of it if you ask me, cause I don't believe for a second he actually thinks they're necessary and is trying to be different, etc. Gourry a while back did a better job rating things out of 255 just to annoy someone, if you ask me <_<
I didn't want to jump to the conclusion that OK was being pedantic and that motherfucker really loves statistics.
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Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4/10 - Been said so many times.
Merlinus(6): Abs
Elphin: 6/10 - Meh bard.
Lalum: 6/10 - Meh bard.
Fa: 3/10 - Lol weapon uses. Needs to one-shot more Mamkutes, but can at least soften them up for easy kills?
Lyn: 7/10 - Faaast but damage what? Needs a Swordmaster crit bonus hard.
*Nils: 7/10 - Slightly better bard.
Eliwood: 6/10 - Hinges on his speed being enough to double most enemies.
Hector: 8/10 - TANK. Wishes he was a little fast, but wrecks the early game and is your best axe user into the end.
Merlinus(7): 4/10 - Items lol.
Athos: 8/10 - Only 8 because he's only on one level. Says a lot about how badly he ruins it.
Eirika: 8/10 - Lyn with a bit more str and much better weapons.
Ephraim: 9/10 - FE8 just fucking dies.
Tethys: 6/10 - Dancer, whatever.
Myrrh: 7/10 - Weapon charges! Weaknesses! Levels up fast!
Ike(9): 8/10 - Kinda meh at a few points early on, but extremely solid once he promotes and gets a point for being godly once he gets Ragnell.
Mist(9): 6/10 - Mobile healer, loses points for under-leveled.
Reyson(9): 8/10 - Better than prior bards.
Elincia(9): 4/10 - Another mobile healer, also under-leveled and ALSO also not there as much.
Micaiah: 7/10 - Nukes anything mounted or armored, heals. Speed holds her back a bit.
Rafiel: 5/10 - Eh. Gets squished too much.
Black Knight: Abs
Elincia(10): 9.5/10 - Despite not being as wholly dominant as Ephraim, FE10 makes a highly mobile healer/slayer of dozens feel incredibly valuable.
Leanne: 4/10 - Rafiel only more.
Ike(10): 9/10 - Completely flattens everything aside from the odd mage pre-endgame, and a damn solid damage dealer there.
Mist(10): 5/10 - FE9 + mounted issues in FE10.
Reyson(10): 9/10 - Everything moves everywhere forever.
Sanaki: 6/10 - Some nice backup firepower, but too frail and slow to really shine. Cymbeline is godly though.
Lehran: Abs
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Missed SO2, but commented on that last time round. Short version: I agree with OK, all you mage-mockers just be hatin'. The consistent disruption effect I found invaluable even later. Never seriously considered canning Leon on my Claude playthrough or Celine on my Rena playthrough.
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 8/10 - Crono is fast and damaging and becomes the best mage in the game if you feed him magic tabs. Life in a pinch, one of the best basic physicals for random-slaying. Definitely felt a step-above - annoyingly so, even, I'd rather have used Magus in some situations but Crono was just better.
Marle: 7/10 - Frail and slow but has the best healing around, which means she always felt kind of obligatory. Tends to eat all my speed tabs.
Lucca: 3/10 - Feels like the LVP, but far from useless. Just... horrendously slow, Protect is situational, and Marle tends to already be eating all my Speed Tabs. Does get some cool unique equips in the Taban stuff, at least. If for some reason I wasn't using Marle in some playthrough she'd probably be considerably better due to being able to snack on Speed Tabs herself.
Frog: 5/10 - Damage is meh, Magic is meh. Would be a 3/10 on his own merits, but Double Cure with Marle is hands down the best double tech in the game and is the key to beating Lavos without too much leveling.
Robo: 4/10 - Also sloooooooow, and his offense never felt as good as Lucca's. His advantage is big HP, but his awful MDef undermines this. And his HP his the 999 cap anyway too soon. Would be a 3/10 but will give a point for Crisis Arm twinking nonsense + the Ribbon being a pretty notable upgrade in the endgame.
Ayla: 8/10 - The other person who breaks Chrono Trigger with Crono. Fast, brutally damaging, can make some MT with double-techs. Her "weakness," lack of magic damage, is not a big deal - uh don't use her against Spekkio, whatever.
Magus: 6/10 - Really neat character and useful, just it feels like he competes with Crono who is also awesome and strangely similar.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Lyn: 7/10 - Have to be careful with her, since RNG hate kills her, but awesome.
*Nils: 7/10 - Useful, but frailty means he can't be used TOO aggressively. Hate the times when Nils bards, and the person he bards then misses the enemy I was worried about, who can then proceed to wreck havoc.
Eliwood: 5/10. Meh.
Hector: 9/10 : Awesome. Everything I want in an axe user.
Merlinus(7): DNR.
Athos: 9/10: Sure, just there for one map, but awesome on it.
Eirika: 8/10 - Lyn+. Still has the "uh I have a 10% chance of losing her if I use her over-aggressively and get unlucky on the dodges" problem.
Ephraim: 9.5/10 - Amazing. I won't question Djinn's assessment but assume that he got really, really, really unlucky with Ephraim; he rules the world.
Tethys: 6/10 - Yup. Gave her the boots.
Myrrh: 4/10 - Eh. I could feed her or I could feed units that don't have 50 shots max all game.
Ike(9): 8/10 - Great.
Mist(9): 6/10 - Also great, actually has some DEF unlike Rhys. Still a bit too frail in an FE game to go much higher.
Reyson(9): 7/10 - DIES HORRIBLY to enemy archers but the brutal 4x bard when transformed is admittedly awesome.
Elincia(9): 5/10 - Flying healer works.
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 6/10 Fast when it matters, faster when it doesn't really (start of the game) but still nice. Your damage early game, probably your first true MT damage which makes him a prime candidate for Silver Stud which lets you just plow through dungeons blindly.
Marle: 4/10 Healing where you have her, she does her job, but her job is not really that important. I would rather have MT healing since this is CT and things that makes mashing X to win easier is nice.
Lucca: π I get the damage hype, but her versatility isn't that useful in game really, Crono covers your magic choices quite well. Just a bit to interchangable for my tastes though I totally see where the high scores are coming from, but end game for me it is mostly about Speed more than raw damage, enemies die regardless of how big the numbers are . Noteworthy for being one of the few people with useful status. Not Hypnowave, but the gun she gets in Robo's first dungeon, can't remember the status, but it effects robots which is the only enemies there, really quite good actually. (this is a 3 Meeple)
Frog: 2e/10 I use him all the time. Mostly for the cheap MT healing. Also has status removal woooo. (This is yeah lets cheat and round down and say it is a 5 Meeple)
Robo: 6/10 He really has a complete moveset and kicks arse for some really amazing portions of the game. That said, I don't use Robo ever.
Ayla: 6/10 Mostly don't use Robo because I use Ayla. Stealing is good to have, she punches stuff really well. Ayla crits are fantastic for trash killing and she has a nice crit rating.
Magus: 4/10 Has MT. Has MT of whatever element you want. Half the time the element doesn't matter so you cast Lightning 2. Lightning 2 is the first spell he learns. It takes a bit overly long for him to learn a new good spell really. Kills things.
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Mist(9): 6/10 - Also great, actually has some DEF unlike Rhys. Still a bit too frail in an FE game to go much higher.
Her defense is just as bad as a mage.
Ike(9): 8/10
Mist(9): 3/10. Theoretical later use. Starts at a horribly low level with laughably bad stats. I suppose I could have pumped BExp into her, but I saved BExp for capping off extra levels mostly and using it on Mist would have felt like a waste. The 3 points are solidly only for later theoretical use.
Reyson(9): 8/10
Elincia(9): 3/10. Unlike Mist, I was okay using BExp on her. Granted, Amiti+felt less likely to explode at near everything. But uh...late joining underlevelled type. Even if FE 9 is still semi setup to help her and her combo works quite well in game, that's a lot to overcome.
Only game here I have enough recollection of
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Jill support gives Mist +3 Def/Res (along with +2 from Titania or +1 from Boyd) which propels her well above the other mages for durability post promotion (which is when I start caring about her durability more). She also doesn't have to be worried about being doubled unlike Rhys.
Snowfire: Reyson only dies horribly to archers while he's transformed, and given that he can refresh four people in this state, there really shouldn't be any archers in range of him left alive thereafter. Also on a bard note, I found it odd that you'd penalise a bard for those situations when you refresh a PC and they then proceed to whiff an enemy, instead of penalising the PC who missed (one of the reasons Hector being within 0.5 of Ephraim doesn't sit well with me, though the more pressing reason is AS).
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 6.5 - Generally useful, good double tech options and speed, and a few dungeons where he's necessary. Still holds his own when not forced too.
Marle: 7 - Held back because of fraility, but Revive 2, being able to DT for cheap MT fullhealing and Haste, just Haste.
Lucca: 5 - Sure she's good at endgame, and has the best pre-Spekkio magic. But way too slow and trails too much in the middle.
Frog: 3.5 - As much as I love the guy, he's a scrubby healer, and his damage blows. Gets points for first dungeon/Magus' castle, and that's it.
Robo: 6.5 - Generally sub-Crono for most of the game, but makes up for this with a very strong Fated Hour.
Ayla: 8 - Strong out of the box, and stays that way. Just shows up late. Bonus points for Blackbird awesomeness.
Magus: 6 - His niche is really MT spam, even Dark Matter isn't quite enough to set him apart, especially at those costs and showing up after a lot of his specialties would have been really nice.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Haven't beaten 6, but why are Elphin and Lalum separate? Essentially same char but pathsplit something fierce.
Lyn: 7.5 - Probably the best Lord in the game, just has nice options on promo, and her speed keeps her effectively invincible. Hates Wgt of Sol Katti.
*Nils: 7 - Nice variety with the bracelets, and good evasiveness eventually.
Eliwood: 6 - I've generally had him turn out alright. But very dependent on growths which holds him back.
Hector: 7 - Good Def and Str, but the Spd tends to matter a fair bit more. Also, Bows work better as a secondary than a second melee weapon.
Merlinus(7): DNR - He's not really a choice.
Athos: 6.5 - Mostly just there to back you up if you need another strong character, and to make the final battle RNG proof.
Eirika: 8 - As much as I hate to say it, Lyn +
Ephraim: 10 - Less broken than a Laguz Royal. Maybe. Oh who the fuck am I kidding, this is who Cainegis wants to be when he grows up.
Tethys: 6.5 - FE Dancer, now with less options, yay!
Myrrh: 1 - A liability that might be trained up into a non-liability. Until her weapon breaks, at which point she becomes a 0.
Ike(9): 9 - Good growths, always there, and the Regal Sword is good for most of the game. Aether also being the one noteworthy Mastery in the game also helps.
Mist(9): 6 - I give her credit for the Sonic Sword, so eminently usable, and a healer with Canto is worth having around.
Reyson(9): 9 - FE Dancer, now hitting four people at once?!
Elincia(9): 3 - Fast supports, but late and a liability when she does show up. Mostly gets play because she joins on the huge ass battle and has a sweet weapon.
Micaiah: 5 - Way too frail and slow for what she is, but Thani rocks worlds.
Rafiel: 8 - Hitting four targets at once is nice, lack of mobility is less nice.
Black Knight: DNR
Elincia(10): 9 - Evasive, mobile, Canto, and powered up Amiti. What's not to love? Oh, and maps practically designed around her.
Leanne: 8 - Neat trick, but hitting only two at a time leaves her balanced with Rafiel.
Ike(10): 9 - More Ragnell, but also nerfed Aether and better units around him. Still manages to hold his own, and being somewhat RNG proof only helps him more.
Mist(10): 3.5 - Losing the Sonic Sword hurts. Being on the mage side of the coin also hurts, and improved Elincia just ends all comparison. The SS makes up for nothing considering how much competition there is for Alondite.
Reyson(10): 9.5 - Still frail, but now makes up for it with sustained 4 person Galdring and Canto.
Sanaki: 3 - Has an issue with joining late. At least forced in the final, but misses the best mage map in the game. Also, no use for Rexflame.
Lehran: 2 - Good stats, but such horribly limited use it isn't funny. I'd also mention that he relegates someone to uselessness in the final fight, except whoever you'd have passing off to him would probably just be a staff user anyways, so it matters not.
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Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 7/10. Due to being forced, he's typically ahead of the team on skills, and he's got good speed when the first bunch of characters you get (sans short section with Frog) are the slowest 3. Good all around, and Life is your best source of Ressurection for most of the game
Marle: 5/10. Honestly not that special as a healer; Robo and Frog get MT, and dual techs that are just as good, etc. Life 2 is REALLY late, so hype for that vaguely boggles me, and Haste is only really worthwhile on bosses, and even then I got mild milleage out of it. She has good dual techs at least.
Lucca: 6/10. A bit lack luster early on, though a good early dual tech with Crono helps her through there, and once she gets Fire, she's always a good cannon. Her unique equips help her deal with some of her flaws a bit.
Frog: 4/10. Speed aside, there's never a reason to use him over Robo. Heal < Heal Beam, and his damage caps at Leap Slash. Some decent Dual Techs, but they're just not that special beyond how early and powerful Triple Raid is relative to the time.
Robo: 8/10. Bad speed is about his only flaw; low magic defense is really a minor weakness for most of the game cause the difference isn't big enough, due to the way the system works, until late, when he gets stuff like Moon Armor to make up for it anyway. Best Healer, excellent ST offense, good unites...yeah, MVP if you ask me.
Ayla: 7/10. ST damage version of Lucca, who has unites that let her cover crowd control...and has much better speed. Add in a Steal ability that's both accurate *AND* reliably gets you awesome stuff? Yeah.
Magus: 5.5/10. Would be higher if he was gotten earlier; having access to all 3 elements is nice, Dark Bomb is cost effective, but takes time to learn, and he's got actual speed. Lack of unites, and joining late thus way behind on techs holds him back considerably though.
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4/10. He's fine for the first half of the game, when people aren't promoted...but then they promote and he's useless and a genuine liability, and despite his awesome weapon, he's too underleveled to make genuine use of it (though he can get a lot of levels from the final dungeon if you use Hamerene, cause its ranged at least.) Nice supports save him some.
Merlinus(6): DNR. Doesn't function like a normal unit.
Elphin: 7/10. FE Dancer type, etc.
Lalum: 7/10. See Elphin! I think evasion style works better than Defense style as a Dancer, and I want to credit her for being on the superior path...but realistically, neither should see combat use, and you use them for exactly the same thing (if only Lalum could turn Douglas into a Green Unit -_-)
Fa: 3/10. If she's built up, and still has charges left, she's good in the very last chapter! I got nothing...
Lyn: 8/10. Reliable evasion tank who doubles everything and Mani Katti is pretty bad ass. Never held back on a promotion either, which is nice.
*Nils: 9/10. Dancer-type with awesome evasion and sexy buffs, yes.
Eliwood: 5/10. While not bad in and of himself, the fact that all Eliwood Modes hold back his promotion, and how he's at the mercy of the RNG really holds him back. Rapier's alright, but nothing special.
Hector: 7/10. Nice reliable tank, though a bit shakey on speed and accuracy. Loses half a point cause Hector Mode holds his promotion back.
Merlinus(7): DNR. Similar reasons as his previous form.
Athos: 7/10. Athos is incredible in the one map you have him, but I can only give so much credit for one map.
Eirika: 7.5/10. Felt worse than Lyn overall; while Rapier is better against hitting weaknesses, its worse than Mani Katti against regular foes. Siegliende would get her credit if it weren't for that fact that most of the cast is wielding big awesome legendaries by then (let alone Bishops exist.)
Ephraim: 9/10. I shouldn't have to explain this; he's a total bad ass on stats alone...and then he gets a stupid good weapon on top of that.
Tethys: 7.5/10. Elphin/Lalum, gains half a point for being better at the "surviving" thing, IIRC.
Myrrh: 3/10. Fa who can be more flexible in usage due to more charges, but lacks the "Last level ass kicking" aspect.
Ike(9): 7/10. Eliwood+, for the most part. Stronger stats, better legendary which he gets earlier (...barely...), but most importantly, he promotes earlier REGARDLESS of what route you choose for Eliwood, which is really quite a huge boon for Ike's use. Add in the awesomeness of Earth affinity, that's enough for 2 extra points.
Mist(9): 7/10. Bets healer in the game, Sonic Sword and Rune Sword are both excellent on her (though sort of require Arm Scrolls, if not two, to use), and not as big a liability as Rhys due to quick Jill support and doesn't get doubled by Myrms as regularly.
Reyson(9): 9/10. Nils, replacing Buffs with "Occasional 4 panel restoration, regen to adjacent units if applicable, and potential Canto." I think its an even trade.
Elincia(9): 4/10. Flying Healer is really cool, but that's quite literally all she has going for her.
Micaiah: 6/10. Destroys Mounted and Armored units, Sacrifice lets her heal front liners early, then she gets Staves so she's always a decent Healer at worst, and the instant A Support with Sothe. Wishes she had better speed though.
Rafiel: 7.5/10. Healing 4 panels = cool. Being less mobile than the other Herons = bad.
Black Knight: DNR (7/10. MURDERS the maps he's on, but one map is specifically designed for him, another he appears at the tail end of, a 3rd you don't control him on, so that leaves one map...which is possibly hardest map in the game, though he does contend with Nailah.)
Elincia(10): 9/10. FE9 Elincia if she did not require playing Catch Up, and had her offense increased by an absurd amount. If nothing else, she's at least got a strong case for "Most Improved Character between games."
Leanne: 7.5/10. More mobile than Rafiel, but only 2 PCs at a time. Eh, evens out I guess.
Ike(10): 9/10. Good at EVERYTHING but Res, where he fails, but his high HP, and loads of Bonds lets him work around that. Earth affinity is still kick ass, Ragnell is gotten earlier so he can actually make use of it, and...yeah. He was good in FE9, but he's pretty absurd here.
Mist(10): 5/10. Passable healer for the Greil Mercs, and a better long term investment than Rhys. Makes a good Fortify user if you want Micaiah on offense or something. Otherwise, she's really nothing special here, especially due to Elincia's improvement and the lack of Magic Weapons for her.
Reyson(10): 9.5/10. Its FE9 Reyson, only with Innate Canto *AND* he transforms much faster, and in the final chapters, is permanently transformed in practice at the cost of his first turn. His Weak Human form is such a minor factor as a result.
Sanaki: 4/10. Good for taking out Wyverns in the Desert, and innate Flare is nice, but...that's about it. She's frail, low speed, can't heal like other Mages. To her credit, she takes up a pre-determined slot in the Endgame arc, so she doesn't compete with anyone at least.
Lehran: DNR (6/10. You can give him blessed Balberith or Rex Aura and he'll be better offensively than Pelleas/Micaiah/the Saints, and he's a damn good staff user. Unfortunately, he's a bitch to get, lasts for only one chapter, and all that still requires spending a turn trading him that, and making someone useless offensively on the final boss.)
-
Pass on Chrono Trigger in general - it's been way too long since I played a non-NG+ file to actually give out any useful ranks.
Roy: 4/10 sounds about right.
Merlinus(6): 1/10, eats up a deployment slot and doesn't offer anything useful for it.
Elphin: 7/10. FE Dancer(/Bard). I recall FE6 dancers being not as good as even Tethys for various reasons, but that's still solid.
Lalum: 7/10, see above.
Fa: Pass; not sure what to think right now.
Lyn: 8/10.
*Nils: 9/10.
Eliwood: 6/10 (+1 in Hector Mode). Anima affinity + long list of supports is really nice, but his stats are only decent. Late promotion blows and holds him back.
Hector: 7.5/10 (-1 in Hector Mode). Half a point behind Lyn sounds about right. I'm assuming ENM for default here, though he gets docked in his own mode ironically enough.
Merlinus(7): Pass (DNR).
Athos: Pass.
Eirika: 8/10. Statistically better than Lyn, but never really felt significantly different on usefulness for me, at least on Normal. Game's difficulty taking a nosedive after she promotes probably factors in to this.
Ephraim: 9.5/10. Statistically amazing to the point where I've had a significantly RNG-screwed Eph in a major stat (Def) and I didn't even notice. He can pretty much romp through Hard Mode, let alone Normal.
Tethys: 8/10 sounds about right.
Myrrh: Mmm... kneejerking 5/10 here.
-
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 6/10.
Merlinus (6): 1/10.
Elphin: 6/10.
Lalum: 6/10.
Fa: 4/10.
Lyn: 7/10.
Nils: 7/10.
Eliwood: 7/10.
Hector: 8/10.
Merlinus (7): 2/10.
Athos: 7/10.
Eirika: 8/10.
Ephraim: 8/10.
Tethys: 6/10.
Myrrh: 5/10.
Ike (9): 8/10.
Mist (9): 5/10.
Reyson (9): 7/10.
Elincia (9): 5/10.
-
SPOILER WARNING AGAIN ETC YOU KNOW THE DRILL.
...actually, from now on, anytime a game pops up that you haven't played, assume this to be the case <_<
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 6.89
Marle: 5.55
Lucca: 4.59
Frog: 4.65
Robo: 6.29
Ayla: 7.28
Magus: 6.32
Fire Emblem Lords, Dancers and Other Unique Classes:
Roy: 4.33
Merlinus(6): 1.75
Elphin: 6.38
Lalum: 6.35
Fa: 6.35
Lyn: 7.66
*Nils: 7.65
Eliwood: 5.01
Hector: 7.71
Merlinus(7): N/A
Athos: 7.48
Eirika: 7.76
Ephraim: 9.01
Tethys: 6.68
Myrrh: 4.93
Ike(9): 8.28
Mist(9): 5.69
Reyson(9): 8.06
Elincia(9): 3.89
Micaiah: 6.27
Rafiel: 6.33
Black Knight: 7.79
Elincia(10): 8.85
Leanne: 6.29
Ike(10): 8.58
Mist(10): 4.88
Reyson(10): 9.11
Sanaki: 3.98
Lehran: N/A
Best Rating of this session: Reyson(10) w/ 9.11
Worst Rating of this session: Merlinus(6) w/ 1.75
Merlinus(7) and Lehran both have been booted as they have not met the proper thresholds, thus don't have ratings. IF its not obvious, yes "N/A" on ratings basically means "Person failed at rating, thus is not rated"
Again, as a Reminder, and read this cause I saw at least one person fail to acknowledge this and it screwed up a few ratings:
DO NOT Delete individual ratings from entire sets. If you can't vote on someone, or don't remember them and don't feel comfortable, please, just either leave the entry blank, or say "Abstain" or "????" or whatever. Its very easy to miss things when people just delete entire entries. Again, if you can't vote on an entire GAME (I break things up based on games, for situations like these big FE ones, so yeah, space = new game, generally), that's fine to delete that entire section. But to delete a few specific characters from an entire game leads to confusion. DO NOT DO THIS. Just leave the entry blank (or say something that implies you can't/aren't rating them...anything but "DNR" at least <_<), and I'll treat it the same way, but it makes for much easier time on my end.
ANYWAY, next up, cause MM10 came out a week ago, I think we might as well acknowledge it in some manner! That, and MORE FE! THIS TIME WITH LOTS OF HORSES!!!
Mega Man X Command Mission:
X:
Zero:
Spider:
Massimo:
Marino:
Cinnamon:
Axl:
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6):
Allen:
Lance:
Zealot:
Treck:
Noah:
Percival:
Sain:
Kent:
Marcus(7):
Lowen:
Isadora:
Seth:
Franz:
Kyle:
Forde:
Orson:
Titania(9):
Oscar(9):
Kieran(9):
Makalov(9):
Geoffrey(9):
Fiona:
Geoffrey(10):
Kieran(10):
Makalov(10):
Titania(10):
Oscar(10):
Renning:
NOTE: I did NOT forget about Astrid, Amelia or Duessel; I purposely didn't place them here for the sake of making things more balanced in later sessions, cause there's so many freaking Paladins. So yeah, don't worry, they'll get rated eventually, in an alternative place where they all fit reasonably well.
NOTE 2: If I forgot anyone else, please state promptly, so I can add them back in ASAP <_<
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Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): Jeigan MkVI. 2/10
Allen: Pretty damn solid. 6.5/10
Lance: See Alan. 6.5/10
Zealot: CAN TAKE A CRIT FROM SCOTT. Owns Isadora. 1.5/10
Treck: Okayish tankcav, I guess. 4.5/10
Noah: Pretty cleanly the worst of the unpromoted FE6 cavs. 3.5/10
Percival: Decent prepromo replacement should you need one. 5.5/10
Sain: Didn't feel as useful as the FE6 cav duo but still pretty good. 6/10
Kent: Fair deal less useful than Sain. Really should have had more speed. 4/10
Marcus(7): Jeigan MkVII. 2/10
Lowen: Tankcav. He was okay. 5/10
Isadora: lolisadora. 1/10
Seth: Jeigan MkVIII, now with added usefulness! 4/10
Franz: Best cav out of the unpromoted trio. 6/10
Kyle: Tankcav. Boring. 4.5/10
Forde: Franz does his job better. 3.5/10
Orson: Pretty pointless and arguably actively unhelpful. 0/10
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Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 7/10. Solid. It's a reasonably balanced cast, so he doesn't feel dominant, but definitely someone you'll use the most overall I think.
Zero: 6/10. Hmmm. More of a boss fighter. Bounces out of the party a little much as well.
Spider: 5/10. Useful enough while you have him.
Massimo: 4/10. Not a fan of slow characters in these sorts of games, but hardly dead weight.
Marino: 6/10. Quicksilver is FUN but impractical for a lot of things, and I suck at slot-style stuff.
Cinnamon: 4/10. E-Tank makes a healer a bit redundant, and the total lack of offense sucks. Still, accessory whorage, and having a backup healer/healer for randoms isn't a bad thing.
Axl: 5/10. Didn't use him much myself, but looks good on paper so... average, sure.
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 2/10. Maybe I savestate abused a bit much? But never felt the need for a Jeigan in FE6.
Allen: 7/10. Good solid unit.
Lance: 6/10. Looks comperable to Allen on paper, in practice... well, FE6 enemies are slow and Swords broken, so speed and skill aren't stats you need to specialize in, while strength would be great. Still far from bad.
Zealot: 2/10.
Treck: 3/10. Looked pretty scrubbish. Nevermind that Allen and Lance kinda dominate the market.
Noah: 3/10. Hmmm. Is "gets Fir" worth an extra point... nah.
Percival: 4/10. He looked... serviceable if Lance/Allen died on you, if I remember his stats right.
Sain: 6/10. Solid.
Kent: 7/10. Maybe I just have strange luck, but my Kents have ALWAYS turned out better than my Sains.
Marcus(7): 4/10. Stage... 14? 15? Erk and Precilla really appreciates having someone to ride in and lure enemies. Marcus does that well.
Lowen: 5/10. He... does okay, but I feel like 25 Def isn't enough for someone trying to pull of concrete durability in an FE game, and the offense is merely okay.
Isadora: 2/10. No.
Seth: 5/10. I really like Seth and tend to support him with Eirika, but eh, probably suboptimal.
Franz: 7/10. What the hell is Franz on? It's like he's just good at everything. THAT SAID, FE8 has more broken people, and the endgame is harsh on rider penalties, so merely good.
Kyle: 5/10. Didn't impress.
Forde: 6/10. Not bad.
Orson: DNR (4/10). It's one stage. That said, you've got four people on it, so just having him in reserve just in case is going to come up, probably.
Titania(9): 6/10. Solid.
Oscar(9): 9/10. Oscar + Ike == Game cries. Love that Earth affinity. LOVE IT I SAY.
Kieran(9): 6/10. ... man. I just realized, I have NEVER used Kieran, in either game. What the hell. *research* Hm. I dunno, that he's competing with Oscar statistically and Titania's "Axe Pally" slot... 6, I guess, despite some solid stats.
Makalov(9): 5/10. Did not impress.
Geoffrey(9): 5/10. He's... pretty late. not feeling any love for him.
Fiona: 2/10. No. No. No.
Geoffrey(10): 5/10. He's... alright. Anchors the CRK mostly.
Kieran(10): 4/10. His starting speed.... or was it skill? One of the two were lacking and I remember him struggling on the CRK charge missions.
Makalov(10): 3/10. But not as much as Makalov.
Titania(10): 7/10. Good. She honestly feels like the best pally in FE10, axe plus level advantage plus good all around stats. Trails in the lategame, but Endgame is psychotic.
Oscar(10): 5/10. Man, what happened? Filler frankly.
Renning: 2/10. Y'know, if he joined ANY earlier he'd have some use. But while he's got serviceable stats for most things, he has no business playing in Endgame.
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MMXCM
X: 8/10. Possibly the best boss fighter; super-tank with #2 damage. Against randoms he is initially underwhelming but gets much better once you have Charge Shot at 100 WE.
Zero: 7.5/10. Best damage with no drawbacks. That earns a decent score.
Spider: 6/10. Bluff is neat, and his offence is overall decent. Having notable speed helps some.
Massimo: 3.5/10. Well, the HP is useful sometimes, as is the strong Action Trigger. But he's rarely an optimal choice.
Marino: 8/10. Quicksilver is awesome for the same reason Intrude is, it's infinitely versatile - item damage haxes some bosses, healing, or just raw bruising. Toss in high WE and some nice weapons and you have a PC who excels in most situations.
Cinnamon: 3/10. Extends your subtank healing, but by the time she can do it without being a total liability there's really only one sequence (Scarface/Epsilon) where this matters. Otherwise she is cool in the aftergame but I don't really give points for that.
Axl: 7/10. Underwhelming against bosses (although Bait can do wonders against their ST offence) but probably the best in randoms, together with X they can clear many things.
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 4/10. Good early. You people underrate this.
Allen: 9/10. Great. Arguable MVP.
Lance: 9/10. See above.
Zealot: 3/10. See Marcus, but less good overall.
Treck: 6/10. He's okay.
Noah: 3/10. Uh Fir support.
Percival: 8/10. What a lategame prepromo wants to be. Probably a 10 on Hard Mode.
Sain: 6/10. Look at me I have strength. And move. Overall offence and durability aren't great though.
Kent: 7/10. Anima and move are both cool.
Marcus(7): 6/10. Good early.
Lowen: 4/10. Offence lacks, durability isn't good enough to make up for it.
Isadora: 1/10. lulz
Seth: 8/10. Yeah, awesome Eirika support and just plain awesome for the first half of the game.
Franz: 8/10. Great offence, great move. Durability isn't up to the level of the top tier but still.
Kyle: 3/10. lulz, def in fe8
Forde: 5/10. Average.
Orson: 1/10. just lulz
Titania(9): 9.5/10. Don't want to give her the same score I gave Eph, but dang. See Seth, only never falls off. She's only above average at endgame! EDIT: Screw it, same score as Eph works for the FE9 MVPs, they have no flaws really.
Oscar(9): 9.5/10. Hey look it's Ike with an earlier promotion, a horse, and better weapons. broked
Kieran(9): 9/10. Oscar but without as haxy supports.
Makalov(9): 7/10. Solid enough despite being the worst of his class possibly.
Geoffrey(9): 7/10. See above. Paladins own this game.
Fiona: 1/10. lulz. I used her first playthrough and her potential is rather good, but still.
Geoffrey(10): 4/10. Decent for two maps but gah, he's kinda like Orson, any Exp he gets is a waste and when he comes back he sucks.
Kieran(10): 5/10. Geoffrey, not quite as good at first, but sticks around and is okay.
Makalov(10): 4/10. Meh.
Titania(10): 8.5/10. Still one of the best PCs. High move, awesome offence, and hax after her early promotion.
Oscar(10): 7/10. Nerfsticked but still a solid PC choice.
Renning: 2.5/10. Not -bad-, but no real reason to use.
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Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 2.5/10. Briefly good, but utter ass later on.
Allen: 7/10
Lance: 6/10
Zealot: 2/10
Treck: 5/10
Noah: 4/10
Percival: 6/10
Sain: 7/10
Kent: 7/10
Marcus(7): 4/10. Actually serviceable later on to some degree.
Lowen: 5/10
Isadora: 1/10
Seth: 7/10
Franz: 8/10
Kyle: 4/10
Forde: 5/10
Orson: DNR
Titania(9): 8/10
Oscar(9): 9/10
Kieran(9): 8/10
Makalov(9): 5/10
Geoffrey(9): 6/10
Fiona: 1/10
Geoffrey(10): 5.5/10
Kieran(10): 5/10
Makalov(10): 4/10
Titania(10): 8.5/10
Oscar(10): 6/10
Renning: 3/10
-
Seth: 5/10. Pre-promote who's pretty useless endgame. Meh.
Franz: 7/10. Starts off being a bit frail, but not too bad overall. Good availability.
Kyle: 5/10.
Forde: 5/10. These two are about as useless as each other, in that they're usable, but better alternatives exist. (Hi Franz!)
Orson: DNR. Would be a 0/10 considering availability. >.>
Titania(9): 8/10. Jeigan, but decent at endgame.
Oscar(9): 9/10. Two runs of PoR, and he's been my kill-leader in one and 3rd in the other.
Kieran(9): 7/10. Pretty good, yeah.
Makalov(9): Pass, never used him.
Geoffrey(9): 6/10. Good, but too late.
Fiona: 2/10. At least she's early enough to be usable?
Geoffrey(10): 7/10. Average-ish, but useful when forced.
Kieran(10): 6/10. Average.
Makalov(10): Uhh, pass. Never used him.
Titania(10): 8/10. Decently good.
Oscar(10): 6/10. Kinda average.
Renning: 1/10. Too late to be worthwhile, especially when you have Laguz Royals.
-
Titania(9): 9/10 The best character of the best class in the game, carries the party for almost half of the game and never really falls off. At the very, very end she may be caught by one of her fellows.
Oscar(9): 3.5/10 I guess he's normally really good? Whatever; for me he's been completely useless in two playthroughs (a 2 at best) and tolerable for one (a 6 at best). 3.5 feels right for my experience of him.
Kieran(9): 7.5/10 Very useful every time I've played. He's never as dominant as Titania (except, potentially, at the very, very end) but he's always worth including.
Makalov(9): 2.5/10 He's probably actually better than this? But he's the weakest of his class and I've never wanted another so badly I'd actually use him.
Geoffrey(9): 5/10 Joins late but is useful once he does, but there's so much competition for the final slots I can't go higher.
Fiona: 1/10 The only character I've lost in a first playthrough of a FE game and just said, screw it, she was useless anyway. When you suck even by Dawn Brigade standards... damn.
Geoffrey(10): 4/10 Great when he's first available and then... he's gone for so long everyone else passes him by.
Kieran(10): 4.5/10 Hit with a great big nerf bat from my previous experience of him, still usable, but out of the question for endgame. Not as good as Geoffrey (I think?) but available more often.
Makalov(10): 2/10 Sucks worse than in FE9 because his class is no longer cruise control for cool on its own.
Titania(10): 8/10 Not really worse than her FE9 self, and by far the best mounted unit, she's only "held back" by never having a stretch where she completely dominates the game.
Oscar(10): 4.5/10 Functional in the Greil Mercenaries segments, but not somebody I'd consider for a party given the choice.
Renning: 2/10 Late joiner who is available only at endgame in a game that fills you up on incredibly powerful characters and required characters. I actually used him once, more fool I, and he was non-terrible, but he was a wasted party slot.
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Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 9.5/10
Zero: 8/10
Spider: 7/10
Massimo: 3/10
Marino: 8.5/10
Cinnamon: 2/10
Axl: 4/10
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Sain: 7/10. Not bad.
Kent: 7/10. Not bad.
Marcus(7): 4/10.
Lowen: 4/10.
Isadora: 1/10.
Seth: 7/10
Franz: 7/10
Kyle: 2/10 lulz
Forde: 4/10
Orson: 1/10
Titania(9): 8/10
Oscar(9): 10/10 based on my playthroughs mwahaha~
Kieran(9): 8.5/10
Makalov(9): 2/10 what the fuck ever. -5 for ugly (really 7/10)
Geoffrey(9): 4/10
Fiona: 1/10
Geoffrey(10): 4.5/10. Really good in his maps, really bad later. I feel overall better than 9 Geoff because he does have those maps of awesome.
Kieran(10): 5.5/10
Makalov(10): 2/10 for realz
Titania(10): 10/10 what
Oscar(10): 6/10. WHY DID YOU NERF OSCAR!?! oh right cuz he needed it
Renning: Ummm... 2/10?
-
Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 8/10. Excellent Boss Fighter, both for damage, tanking and "Wait, 5 turns of Hyper mode?!", and twinked Charge Shot is pretty much the best Random Slaying you'll get...besides Nova Strike...which is his move ANYWAY.
Zero: 6/10. Good ST damage and...not much else. Has some issues hitting fliers unless he uses his AT, which is good use of it admittedly, and a little slower than I'd like, but still good at what he does.
Spider: 7/10. Solid overall, only flaw is a crappy AT.
Massimo: 4/10. Worse Zero, though better durability and non-Hyper Mode AT are points in his favor, as is the Warm-Body usage early on.
Marino: 7/10. Just good at getting damage up over the course of many turns.
Cinnamon: 3/10. Never found her that good; Kitty Gloves is good for Melee damage, just Marino and Zero already are fine for covering your bases, as is Massimo for that matter, and she's kind of worthless offensively. Helps you on Sub Tank conservation, but if you're set up well, you won't be using them much anyway.
Axl: 7/10. Basically a faster X with different applications in boss fights; overall worse, but still rather good.
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 3/10. Jeigan. Good trump card early on, and not much else.
Allen: 8/10. Potential MVP.
Lance: 8/10. Allen with different starting stats!
Zealot: 3/10. Gets a point for being a safety net vs. Scott, due to being able to survive a Killer Axe Crit, but otherwise, is Marcus who joins after you'd probably stop using him.
Treck: 5/10. Tank Paladin, just not tanky enough to consider using over Allen and Lance.
Noah: 4/10. Gets Fir and has the Fir support; otherwise, he's pretty crappy.
Percival: 7/10. What Prepromos in FE6 wish they were. Good for filling in spaces in case one of your earlier units fell behind or got RNG screwed. Also, O_o on hard Mode, but that doesn't count.
Sain: 5/10. Alright, but nothing special.
Kent: 6/10. Found him better than Sain overall, despite the Strength difference.
Marcus(7): 4/10. Like his FE6 self, except he's useful for a longer period of time.
Lowen: 4/10. Treck in a game with better competition.
Isadora: 2/10. She's good for...uh...rescues, I guess? Otherwise, she's Zealot-. ZEALOT-. Do I need to say anything more?
Seth: 6/10. Marcus who can be at least adequate the entire game.
Franz: 6/10. Never found him that special, but he's solid enough.
Kyle: 4/10. Meh.
Forde: 4/10. Meh MkII.
Orson: DNR. Same problems as the Black Knight, honestly, only worse cause he's around for even LESS time. That, and the chapter he's in, Eph does a fine enough job of destroying with...well, with some back up from Forde/Kyle.
Titania(9): 7/10. A better Seth. Titania will be averagish end game instead of below average, the nature of FE9 really allows you to use Jeigans better due to Bonus EXP and Mounted Units are just sick in FE9 due to canto.
Oscar(9): 9/10. Ike on a Horse with a better weapon, and gets a second weapon upon promotion...also can promote earlier. Yeah...
Kieran(9): 8/10. Oscar w/ a worse affinity. Yes, Earth is worth that much.
Makalov(9): 5/10. Swords are the worst of the 3 weapons in FE9 due to being the weakest of the 3 *AND* having no Ranged option outside of the Magic Swords. Add this with how he joins later...
Geoffrey(9): 6/10. A spiritual successor of Percival, he's a decent late game Prepromo, with Paragon on his high level just to mock you! On one hand, Paladins in FE9 are by nature better than in FE6, on the otherhand, Geoffrey ahs much fiercer competition, which in the end, matters more.
Fiona: 2/10. I actually tried to raise her one playthrough...gave up cause the effort just wasn't worth it. The gimmick of coming with 2 free skills is nice, and being mounted in the Dawn Brigade is too, just being underleveled with stats that don't make up for it horrible, and to make matters worse, the other mounted unit in the DB, Jill, is like 15x times better.
Geoffrey(10): 4/10. Rules face in Part 2, then decides to rejoin later on underleveled and his stats are low for his level.
Kieran(10): 4/10. Low speed and doesn't really have anything to make for it with.
Makalov(10): 5/10. I dunno, I found him the best of the Royal Knights, somehow...at least, of the Paladins anyway.
Titania(10): 8/10. Ah, back to Paladins kicking ass again. Titania's got the same advantage she does in FE9 being overleveled and everything...except now, she doesn't downgrade to "average", but remains rather strong the entire way through.
Oscar(10): 7/10. Significantly worse in this game, Oscar is merely a solid unit overall instead of freaking awesome.
Renning: 3/10. While not horrible, he really is kind of pointless. The "Fills in slots nicely" gimmick would be worth so much more if you didn't have Laguz Royals and Giffca who already have that use, and I somehow doubt you'll need more than 5 characters to fill in slots like that.
-
Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 8/10
Zero: 7.5/10
Spider: 7/10
Massimo: 3/10
Marino: 7/10
Cinnamon: 6/10
Axl: 2/10
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6):
Allen:
Lance:
Zealot:
Treck:
Noah:
Percival:
Sain: 5/10
Kent: 5/10
Marcus(7): 5/10
Lowen: 3/10
Isadora: 1/10
Seth: 5/10
Franz: 6/10
Kyle: 3/10
Forde: 3/10
Orson:
Titania(9): 8/10
Oscar(9): 7.5/10
Kieran(9): 6/10
Makalov(9): 3/10
Geoffrey(9): 6/10
Fiona: 3/10
Geoffrey(10): 5/10
Kieran(10): 4/10
Makalov(10): cheap/10 (4/10)
Titania(10): 8/10
Oscar(10): 7/10
Renning: 3/10
-
Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 8/10. Yeah, good at both things that matter once he gets rolling. Before he does get rolling, he's only good at one of them, but CM bosses are never trivial.
Zero: 6.5/10. Just passable against randoms and could use better speed. He's a brilliant boss slugger, though - even better than X. This is worth a solid rating.
Spider: 7/10. Great randombusting and fast. His AT needs some work, but it's neat enough.
Massimo: 4/10. Has... uses, I guess. He's just an inferior Zero, though, and the speed is just not there. Damage is, though, and I give him credit for saving my ass on the Rafflesian fight. Sometimes, you -do- need a third high-damage body.
Marino: 8.5/10. Quicksilver's the best Hyper Mode bar none in the game. You cover basically -everything- you want with it. For randoms, she has solid speed and her AT is also amazingly versatile at handling them. She just covers all offensive/utility bases very well.
Cinnamon: 3/10. Felt like twinking her healing up ended up still less efficient in terms of overall effect than intelligent sub-tank usage in the main game, and outside the infinite, but limited healing, she had nearly nothing else.
Axl: 7/10. Just about the best PC for randoms. For bosses... uh, he kinda lagged, although the uses were there (bait strategies aren't bad at all). Given how big randombusting is in CM, though... think he's worth a good rating.
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 4/10. Early game, he's a good meatshield and can cover offense in a pinch. Fails past that, but the early game is where you need this crutch the most.
Allen: 8.5/10. In FE6, the main paladins were amazing forces. Possibly MVP - good stats, weaponry, mobility and supports. What else do you need?
Lance: 8.5/10. Much like Allen. FE6's Red/Green yaoi knights were just wonderful.
Zealot: 3/10. Kinda like Marcus, but joins later and is worse at what Marcus does.
Treck: 6/10. Decent enough, although I didn't care for him.
Noah: 3/10. Had nothing but the Fir support. The stat spread is meh.
Percival: 8/10. What every prepromo wishes he could be.
Sain: 4/10. FE7 cavaliers didn't impress. Sain's strength is good, but the defensive stat spread doesn't speak to me.
Kent: 5/10. Lyn support is awesome. Past that, still the bias against FE7 pallies. Felt like Kent needed a bit more standout stats instead of having SKILL as his money stat.
Marcus(7): 4/10. Same as FE6
Lowen: 4/10. Poor man's Treck, really. Didn't impress.
Isadora: 2/10. Dear god she sucks.
Seth: 7/10. Still not that fond of Pallies in FE8, but Seth's good. Covers Marcus' role early and can actually stand up decently later. Eirika support is also wonderful - easy to raise and Anima+Light affinities = doughnuts.
Franz: 7/10. -This- is the stat spread I like in a Paladin.
Kyle: 3/10. zomg defense tank
Forde: 4/10. Eeeeeeeeh.
Orson: 2/10. Trash.
-
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 2/10
Allen: 8/10
Lance: 8/10
Zealot: 2/10
Treck: 6/10 Isnt that much worse than Allan and Lance.
Noah: 3/10
Percival: 8/10
Sain: 7/10
Kent: 7/10
Marcus(7): 4/10
Lowen: 5/10
Isadora: 4/10 I've used her before and she was able to hold her own until endgame.
Seth: 8/10
Franz: 8/10
Kyle: 7/10
Forde: 7/10
Orson: Do Not Rank. Temp/aftergame Character
Titania(9): 8/10
Oscar(9): 8/10
Kieran(9): 8/10
Makalov(9): 4/10
Geoffrey(9): 5/10
Fiona: 4/10 A few forgings and a few bonus levels and shes not that hard to raise. Pure Potential
Geoffrey(10): 7/10
Kieran(10): 6/10
Makalov(10): 3/10
Titania(10): 9/10
Oscar(10): 7/10
Renning: 1/10
Only commented on rankings that were far off of the norm.
-
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 4/10. Helpful during the earlygame, but falls off really fast. Still, sometimes you need a gap plugged or a particular enemy killed RIGHT NOW, and he's good at that for a bit.
Allen: 9/10. Badass. He's actually a bit below his normal in the playthrough I'm doing right now, and still holding his own just fine.
Lance: 9/10. I like Alan's stats better, but Lance has the better support type. Anima is <3. Support those two together and they destroy maps.
Zealot: 2/10. He's like Marcus minus. That's really not good.
Treck: 5/10. Passable. Suffers from the Alan/Lance comparison.
Noah: 4/10. Eh. He's not bad, but not really great either.
Percival: 8/10. Strong out of the box and iirc his growths are not bad at all. See Snow, really. He sets the standards for prepromos.
Sain: 7/10. Maybe it's just me, but I've never had Sain turn out badly. Hits like a train and usually has the speed to double. Can't argue with that.
Kent: 6/10. Feels like the weaker of the two to me. But he's by no means bad.
Marcus(7): 3/10. Same as in 6, but 7 feels like it needs him less.
Lowen: 3/10. Mobile wall, I suppose. Always seems to lack the speed or the strength to reliably kill much of anything.
Isadora: 2/10. Just trashy overall. Still a paladin so can't drop under 2 for me(3 weapon types+move is always worth something) but she really tries.
Seth: 7/10. Earlygame emergency unit and usable the whole game. Nice.
Franz: 7/10. Fairly reliably good at near everything. Can't argue with that at all.
Kyle: 5/10. Eh, not good, not bad. Kinda there.
Forde: 4/10. Always felt worse then Kyle overall. And alot worse then Franz.
Orson: DNR
Titania(9): 7/10. Same rating as Seth seems right. Stiffer competition though. Then again, in FE9 you may just want to use all the pallies you can, they're that good.
Oscar(9): 9/10. Just that awesome. Earth is the new Anima for supports, and he has the stats to back it up.
Kieran(9): 8/10. See Meeple.
Makalov(9): 4/10. Never gotten much use out of him in 9.
Geoffrey(9): 6/10. Again, see Meeple.
Fiona: 2/10. I hear she's good if you manage to build her. I'm not sure it's worth bothering with.
Geoffrey(10): 6/10. Badass in the very short Chapter 2, and you can steal another Paragon from him! Lame endgame, but eh. I feel endgame FE10 is less important then the first three chapters, due to HOW MANY OPTIONS you have.
Kieran(10): 4/10. He was kinda just there in 10. Sadly.
Makalov(10): 4/10. See Kieran. They were pretty interchangable this time around.
Titania(10): 9/10. Yeaaaaah, I found where all that awesome Kieran and Oscar lost this time wound up.
Oscar(10): 7/10. Still good, but not awesome anymore.
Renning: 3/10. Sure, whatever.
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Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus (6): 3/10
Allen: 8/10
Lance: 8/10
Zealot: 2/10
Treck: 7/10
Noah: 6/10
Percival: 7/10
Sain: 8/10
Kent: 8/10
Marcus (7): 4/10
Lowen: 7/10
Isadora: 3/10
Seth: 8/10
Franz: 8/10
Kyle: 7/10
Forde: 8/10
Orson: DNR
Titania (9): 7/10
Oscar (9): 8/10
Kieran (9): 7/10
Makalov (9): 6/10
Geoffrey (9): 6/10
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Not really pertinent now, but it is the place it is most on topic. I have been playing Chrono Trigger on the bus recently and it turns out that if you use Lucca consistently she will get Flare just a bit after Crono gets Confuse (Frenzy in the DS version). That I found interesting.
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Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Sain: 8/10 Has been mildly useful, and is otherwise awesome and kills things. Unfortunately, this tends towards me using them less later on, as they become too awesome and just omnomnom EXP
Kent: 6/10 There, kinda useful
Marcus(7): 5/10 There, meatshield
Lowen: 7/10 I find him mildly more useful than Kent, but that's mostly because he's the lance user of Eliwood's group that isn't Marcus
Isadora: 1/10 lulz
Seth: 7/10 Good early, but also pre-promo
Franz: 9/10 I have never had a less than awesome Franz, even while holding him back at everyone else's level
Kyle: 6/10 There
Forde: 6/10 There
Orson: DNR
Titania(9): 7/10 Useful early, when everyone else is so frail
Oscar(9): 8/10 Tank tank tank tank~
Kieran(9): 5/10 Meh
Makalov(9): 6/10 Meh+
Geoffrey(9): 7/10 Solid
Fiona: 1/10 lulz
Geoffrey(10): 6/10 Useful early, notsomuch later
Kieran(10): 6/10 Meh-ish
Makalov(10): 6/10 Meh-ish
Titania(10): 3/10 Didn't really use her. At all. Everyone else around her is already kinda awesome
Oscar(10): 7/10 Can barely scratch Swordmasters later on, but hey. He tanks like there's no tomorrow!
Renning: DNR (Not enough screentime)
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Sain: 7/10.
Kent: 8/10. Awesome.
Marcus(7): 6/10. Honestly not terrible, very useful early to absorb the bigger enemy waves where it's tough to position your weak units safely.
Lowen: 5/10.
Isadora: 2/10. I'd rate her 3/10 off in-game use but know that her growths are terrible so yeah she's not even that great if you got your cavs offed somehow.
Seth: 7/10. Solid, handy early.
Franz: 6/10.
Kyle: 5/10. Seem to recall him being a bit slow.
Forde: 6/10.
Orson: DNR.
Titania(9): 7/10.
Oscar(9): 9/10.
Kieran(9): .... 8/10 off the assumption he's an Oscar clone around for less time. FE9 did allow accuracy forging to make axes better.
Makalov(9): Pink hair on a male / 10
Geoffrey(9): Didn't use either /10.
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Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Sain: 7/10. Did what I needed him to.
Kent: 5/10. Meh.
Marcus(7): 3/10. Prepromo
Lowen:: 7/10 worked pretty well for me.
Isadora: 2/10. Dumped her as soon as I got her.
Seth: 6/10. Works... okay for a Jeigan type.
Franz:: 6/10. Works. I didn't really need him. Game of Eph and all that jazz.
Kyle: 6/10 see above.
Forde: 5/10. Just the way mine turned out.
Orson: 4/10. Like you need a Jeigan like him with Eph around. Well. Gets points for being a wall if you remove his weapons.
Titania(9): 7/10 Is badass.
Oscar(9): 8/10 is very badass.
Kieran(9): 6/10 just didn't get much use out of him.
Makalov(9): 5/10. Good in theory. Where is Astrid, btw?
Geoffrey(9): 5/10. Didn't use him beyond the one forced map. Which he was good for!
Fiona:
Geoffrey(10): 7/10. Good for when you use him.
Kieran(10): 6/10. Also good for when you use him.
Makalov(10): 6/10 surprisingly solid.
Titania(10): 7/10. Again a strong showing.
Oscar(10): 7/10. I got use out of him.
Renning: 5/10. Lategame. He isn't a bad unit perse but... yeah, just didn't compare.
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Voting because not voting means Super is spared a fate worse than death. Therefore voting. Twice.
Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 8/10. Can be twinked to take on either randoms or bosses and can do both solidly. His Hyper is also usable for a long while even if not upgraded.
Zero: 7/10. Other way around from Axl. Awesome for bosses. Less awesome for randoms with his lower speed and ST stuff.
Spider: 7/10. Damn solid when he's around despite what it might seem.
Massimo: 4/10. Solid early and then a warm body for a little while before he completely drops off. Never objectively bad to use though.
Marino: 7/10. Pretty good. Although I never got all the hype.
Cinnamon: 6/10. Infinite healing at the cost of no offense whatsoever. Depends on how much you value that versus using subtanks
Axl: 6/10. Solid random smasher. Kinda lacking for bosses.
Fire Emblem Cavaliers and Paladins:
Marcus(6): 4/10. Solid in the early going of FE6 which can be a bitch here and there.
Allen: 9/10. Very awesome. Hits pretty hard, mounted, and supports with another really awesome unit in....
Lance: 9/10. This guy. Man these two are ridiculous. Similar to Allen, trading in some strength for better speed.
Zealot: 3/10. Gets a point for being able to take a Scott critical. Otherwise, he's appearing at a time when prepromos are starting to get bad.
Treck: 5/10. Averagish. Not horrible, but not Allen/Lance.
Noah:3/10. I think. If I'm remembering him right.
Percival: 7.5/10. What every prepromo should be. Even more awesome than Pent in hardmode potentially says something.
Sain: 7/10. Pretty solid. High strength growth and generally the speed gap between him and Kent aren't high enough for one to double and the other not to. What he does trade is some durability in comparison to...
Kent: 7/10. This guy. The bases aren't far apart and Kent isn't otherwise better (in fact he's usually worse, cause he's losing offense), BUT, Anima affinity means having a better support bonus.
Marcus(7): 4/10. Really solid early. Also does important things like ferrying Priscilla back to your main party or rescuing far away villages.
Lowen: 3/10. Tank on a horse that doesn't really become a tank until later and his offense sucks.
Isadora: 1/10. Imagine Marcus, but without the early levels where he's actually providing some positive utility. Now throw in garbage con so she gets weighed down by everything ever and is generally not able to kill anything. Yeah.
Seth: 7/10. Very solid. Anima affinity at the end of the day helps propel him a bit higher. Never goes really bad.
Franz: 8/10. Due to the generally crappiness of the Red and Green cavalier this game, we added a yellow cavalier and made sure he had this awesome stat spread. Luck is kinda low early, but as long as your careful, he's gold.
Kyle: 4/10. Hay guize. Defense and ATK in FE8 am i doing it rite.
Forde: 3/10. Just...way too average. He's not specializing in anything unlike his other compatriots, so he's just kinda there.
Orson: 1/10. lolOrson.
Titania(9): 9/10. Breaks all the rules of a traditional Jeigan. She starts off OP and never really let's go. Doesn't get objectively bad, although her awesome level decreases.
Oscar(9): 9/10. Uh...yeah. Avoid tanks like a champ and doubles the living bejesus out of everything ever.
Kieran(9): 8.5/10. Oscar, but support options are not as good.
Makalov(9): 6/10. Averagish, but not horrible
Geoffrey(9): 7/10. Has Paragon! Good filler for what he is.
Fiona: 1/10. Okay, so I wanted to pull up this huge ass rant from WaterofDarkness basically explaining why Fiona is balls. But I will instead save everyone the trouble and just summarize it. She's all potential, except IS made sure that you couldn't really use her well in any level by effectively using the terrain to gimp her. Huge waste of resources indeed. Also horrible bases.
Geoffrey(10): 4/10. Uh...he's awesome for like the 3 chapters where he's forced to be deployed! By the time everyone comes back he no longer has a level edge and is just kinda there.
Kieran(10): 3/10. Probably around here. Servicable for a small while. Until his bad speed catches up with him.
Makalov(10): 2/10. Objectively, he's pretty bad, but still usable if you insist. Lower levels and all that.
Titania(10): 9/10. Like her FE9 form more or less.
Oscar(10): 7/10. Desparately needs more strength. Transfers and awesome Earth bonus means that he has good chances for those. Otherwise, he's very solid although not awesome level like in FE9
Renning: 1/10. Ew. It's not that Renning is horrible on stats, but there's almost no reason to ever use him. He's not helping out in 4E-2/4E4 and onward and those are the only times he's around. Then he's also taking a deployment slot and since the 4 royals+Giffca destroy him in everyway, you only have like 5 free spots left and the chances for him to serve as filler are going to be even lower.
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X: 8.07
Zero: 6.93
Spider: 6.57
Massimo: 3.64
Marino: 7.43
Cinnamon: 3.86
Axl: 5.43
Marcus(6) is 3.05
Allen/Alan: 8.00
Lance/Rance/Ransu/Rancu/Ranchu/Ranze/Ranz/Green Guy: 7.80
Zealot: 2.35
Treck: 5.25
Noah: 3.65
Percival: 6.90
Sain: 6.47
Kent: 6.33
Marcus(7): 4.07
Lowen: 4.73
Isadora: 1.83
Seth: 6.56
Franz: 7.13
Kyle: 4.60
Forde: 5.03
Orson: N/A
Titania(9): 7.75
Oscar(9): 8.39
Kieran(9); 7.39
Makalov(9): 4.96
Geoffrey(9): 6.15
Fiona: 1.75
Geoffrey: 5.31
Kieran(10): 4.85
Makalov(10): 3.75
Titania(10): 7.92
Oscar(10): 6.42
Renning: 2.38
Best Rating of this session: Oscar(9) w/ 8.39
Worst Rating of this session: Fiona w/ 1.75
Orson is getting punted cause he got DNRed. Everyone mock his useless Temp ass.
Ok, so you guys didnd't seem fond of MMXCM...well, tough! I'm doing another game based on "hey look a game came out in its series!" and more Fire Emblem and there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus:
Auron:
Rikku:
Wakka:
Lulu:
Yuna:
Kimhari:
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors:
Wendy:
Barth:
Douglas:
Wallace:
Oswin:
Gilliam:
Amelia:
Duessel:
Gatrie(9):
Brom(9):
Nephenee(9)
Devdan:
Tauroneo(9):
Aran:
Meg:
Tauroneo(10):
Nephenee(10):
Brom(10):
Danved:
Gatrie(10):
Again, if anyone was missed, please tell me so I can correct it!
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Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: Eh. Dislike for Armor Knights in general but he's decent enough. 4/10
Wendy: Ugh. Joins at Lv1 near the start of midgame with craptacular stats. BUT BUT TRIANGLE ATTACK yeah no. 1/10
Barth: Bland with a 2% CHANCE OF RES GROWTH. Meh Armor Knights. 2.5/10
Douglas: Tin-plated failure. 0.5/10
Wallace: Exists outside of Lyn Mode?/10 (2.5/10 in all seriousness)
Oswin: Actually pretty solid for an Armor Knight. 5/10
Gilliam: Useable early but meh. 3/10
Amelia: Sure, you can catch her up relatively sanely if you're willing to use the tower I suppose. Project character who doesn't become all that great, really, but at least FE8 lets her be useable. 3/10
Duessel: Eh, he's useable if you need a warm body I guess. 2.5/10
-
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 9/10. Hastega? Yeah, that's about it. Gets Haste early, breaks game, and then gets Hastega/Slowga/Quick Hit later on to break the game even more. Could use better durability, but speed hax in the FFX system is awesome enough as is.
Auron: 7/10. Durability. Just having the strength, HP and defence he does makes him useful, and the breaks add a good bit to that early on as well. Could do with some more variety and/or speed, but he's still a damn good character.
Rikku: 5/10. Fun niche with the items, but she's the most replaceable character by far. Items are, for the most part, tricks covered by other characters for the majority of the game, and without the cost. Healing items are usable by everyone, and I didn't find stealing was useful until post-game, really. Still has the speed and Mix to have a lot of use, just not as much as everyone else.
Wakka: 8/10. Gains 2 points here for Attack Reels alone, seriously, considering how easy it is to get Limits in FFX. Otherwise, good accuracy, strength and durability keep him as a useful party member, and the status helps in specific situations.
Lulu: 7/10. Since most enemies have weaknesses, she's pretty damn useful throughout for randoms, and has solid damage against most bosses. The speed and PDur really drag her down, since the evasion isn't all too noticeable until endgame.
Yuna: lol/10? Yeah, 10/10. You have to be pretty damn stupid not to use Yuna. (Hey, guess what? I didn't use Yuna until the Mega Graviton Sin fight... >.<)
Kimahri: 0.5/10. Has theoretical use? Everyone else is better at what they do, and with FFX's battle system, there is no reason to use Kimahri ever outside of his Limit Breaks and when Yuna's gone, and then you can just use items to fill Yuna's niche that he can cover.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
(Cutting FE6-7, since I haven't played them.)
Gilliam: 4/10. Ehh. Potential early on, but nothing special.
Amelia: 3/10. Yeah, she -can- be good. But she's underlevelled and way too late to actually be of any use.
Duessel: 6/10. Actually not too bad? The high levels help a lot here.
Gatrie(9): 8/10. Actually really damn useful. Tanks, has decent enough speed to at least not get doubled early on, and lategame, has the defence for weaker enemies to tink. Fails it up against most bosses, though.
Brom(9): 6/10. Starts off dealing way too little damage to do anything useful. Can become half-decent with some training, and still has decent-ish defences, but... ugh, that damage.
Nephenee(9): 8.5/10. Strength, speed and Wrath. Yeah, Nephenee's a beast if she can survive, but her durability's not the best. Might need some help early on, but definitely worth it.
Devdan: Not gonna vote on him. Never even wanted to use him.
Tauroneo(9): 5/10. Has speed and strength, just low defences for an armoured unit and comes way too late to make use of this, especially when there are better characters for what he excels in.
Aran: 7/10. Most of this comes from availability, because a half-decent character in the Dawn Brigade?! Yeah. Otherwise, a bit average, but definitely usable.
Meg: 5/10. Ugh. Nope, I'm sorry, I've never understood Meg hype. She's got poor defences on the whole and that's meant to be her forte. Screw you, Meg.
Tauroneo(10): 7/10. As with FE9, but much better availability. Still not great, but better, and his average stat spread looks much better when compared with the DB.
Nephenee(10): 7/10. Aran Mk. 2. Bit of a shame, since she was godly in FE9, but I've never really found her worth in FE10.
Brom(10): 7/10. Brom, on the other hand, improved a decent amount, making him at least above-average.
Danved: Again, never wanted to use him, so no rank from me.
Gatrie(10): 5/10. Oh, the nerf. :( His defences seem so much worse now, and he's lost that speed advantage he had, which makes a world of difference. Much worse on availability now as well. ;_;
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 5.5/10
Auron:8.5/10
Rikku:6.5/10
Wakka: 5/10
Lulu: 8/10
Yuna:9.5/10
Kimhari: 4.5/10
Might edit in reasons later~
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Haste is nice.
Auron: 4/10.
Rikku: 2/10. Found her pretty useless, but I didn't bother with items much.
Wakka: 7/10. Status good, hitting fliers good.
Lulu: 7/10
Yuna: 9.5/10. Healing+Aeons. Hard to go wrong there.
Kimhari: 3/10
Wallace: 3/10. Smashes Lyn mode, which is worth something.
Oswin: 7.5/10
Gilliam: 2/10. Found him utterly useless.
Amelia: 3/10. Yuck.
Duessel: 3/10.
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Tidus: 6/10. Haste is very cool, but I'm not exactly wowed otherwise? Kinda bad durability and lacks a real niche in randoms.
Auron: 3/10. Cast LVP, though not bad. See Monkey, basically... breaks are too situational, and otherwise he's just not impressive... Wakka who is a little better at Wakka's best stats and much worse at everything else, and without the good overdrives.
Rikku: 4/10. I'm rather torn on Rikku. On the one hand, Steal/Use is so replaceable (easy to give it to Kim or Yuna, and you don't need stats for it) so she's not getting many points from that, and aside from speed her stat spread needs work (having neither offence is bad). On the other hand, her Overdrives are rather game-breaking with the right stuff. Eh. Going with the score for most of the game.
Wakka: 7.5/10. Status is better than Haste/Delay in randoms, though worse in bosses of course. Otherwise, though, largely a better Tidus. A bit of Speed is easily worth having much better almost everything else: durability, aim (there's a certain enemy type basically only he can kill), magic/MP, overdrives, and a bit of power.
Lulu: 7/10. Like Wakka, there's effectively an enemy type only she can kill without resorting to aeons (Yuna eventually can). That's good. Generally rather cannon-like, the offence comes and goes in spikes and relies on hitting weakness but at its best... yeah, see the DL curve. Helps that you should give her your Magic Spheres since who else is getting them? Speed blows.
Yuna: 10/10 Even without aeons... ridiculous buffs, heals, and a great stat spread which eventually lets her be the best attack mage with a few BM Spheres, has high speed/evade, etc. Agree with Monkey that I'd like MT healing, but the ST suffices. Then aeons exist and carve things in half. Ryu3-like.
Kimhari: He's such a weird case. He can be fasttracked to some good builds BUT you need to know what those are, so Monkey's point is certainly valid. On the one hand, I totally understand why people would give him low scores and I kinda feel that objectively he isn't that great (though still better than Auron, since he covers Auron's niche well regardless). But on the other hand since most people seem to be voting off personal Kim builds I might as well do the same. The most positive Kim build I made is basically a better Tidus... fasttrack him to Delay Buster/Hastega/Quick Hit, he gets them before Tidus and has much higher Str/MP to boot. So... 7/10.
Bors: 6/10. Second best knight in the GBA games (and third best in the series that I've seen). Still has that bad move, but 11 base Def in a game with a low Def average is badass, and he actually has speed/luck growth. Accuracy is the big concern.
Wendy: 1.5/10. A midgame project character who is basically a Bors clone at equal levels. gj
Barth: 2.5/10. Bors with slightly more Def and way less of the stats that matter.
Douglas: 2/10. Looks guys 8 speed lategame.
Wallace: 3/10. Nice showing in Lyn Mode, but otherwise no.
Oswin: 7/10. Quietly competent and a nice crutch early. Wish he had actual offence, but so it goes.
Gilliam: 3/10. Hey guys 3 speed + 30% speed growth + bad move am I doing it right?
Amelia: 3/10. Respect for FE8 trainees has gone up a bit since they actually do catch up level-wise without going significantly out of your way. That said, Amelia is still a lot of effort for someone who really isn't better than a bunch of high-end dudes.
Duessel: 5/10. Mocks a few maps on Eph mode which can be reasonably tough. His lategame sucks but I reward people who have one clear time of being good with no effort to get there.
Gatrie(9): 3.5/10. Not as bad as Gilliam, but still bad. Paladins + Ike make better tanks in this game since they're also indestructable and have (way) more move and offence. Also terrible supports.
Brom(9): 5.5/10. Similar to Gatrie, except he can eventually double things with lots of Knight Ward use, and has supports I give a damn about (Boyd and Nephenee).
Nephenee(9): 7.5/10. Very solid and balanced unit. The class itself is meh but Wrath is one of the few skills worth caring about and her stats are really good. Bad start + lack of move-again broken keeps her back from the upper echelons.
Devdan: 3/10. I guess he can be some sort of midgame crutch if you're desperate.
Tauroneo(9): 4/10. See above, replace midgame with 3/4-game or something.
Aran: 6/10. DB needs a semi-competent wall.
Meg: 4/10. See above, she's just less good at it.
Tauroneo(10): 5/10. Decent for the very small number of chapters he's there in Part 1-3, then falls off.
Nephenee(10): 7.5/10. Lower Strength, but otherwise a lot like her FE9 self, and she doesn't start as far behind.
Brom(10): 4/10. Like father like daughter. There's just no reason to use him over Gatrie, this time. That said he's not terrible.
Danved: 4/10. I wish he was better. Best speed in the CRK is something but it doesn't last.
Gatrie(10): 7.5/10. Very solid, he's basically Haar with -3 move and no move-again or flight. This makes him much worse than Haar given how valuable flight is in Part 3, but still, a strong choice.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 6/10. Solid.
Auron: 4.5/10. Okay.
Rikku: 3/10, stealing.
Wakka: 6/10. Solid.
Lulu: 7/10. Hits weakness on stuff.
Yuna: 10/10. uh
Kimhari: 1/10. fucking fails.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Wallace: 2/10.
Oswin: 6/10
Gilliam: 2/10
Amelia: 7.5/10
Duessel: 4/10
Gatrie(9): 4/10
Brom(9): 3/10
Nephenee(9): 9/10
Devdan: 4/10
Tauroneo(9): 3/10
Aran: 6/10. Good early but very RNG dependent late.
Meg: 8/10
Tauroneo(10): 5/10
Nephenee(10): 9/10
Brom(10): 5/10
Danved: 3.5/10. Not really very good.
Gatrie(10): 8/10
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 8/10. Fast, pretty accurate, speed games from hell made tons of otherwise possibly tough fights a lot easier.
Auron: 6/10. Stat nuker focus works well, but use drops lategame kinda like Wakka for me.
Rikku: 7/10. Meanwhile I did use items a ton! Rikku was a definite mainstay for me - MT healing + pesky status removal was useful at multiple points, and machina autokill was useful. Late join kinda hurt, though.
Wakka: 7/10. Good for hitting three-turn status or flyers. Otherwise, pass. Regardless, this is FFX, that's use enough. EDIT: Mmm, right, status was more hax than I remembered.
Lulu: 8/10. bam bam bam bam bam. Nuke lady, swapping covers durability pretty well.
Yuna: 9.5/10. 10/10 I think I'd save for forced/must-use characters that break the game. Yuna absolutely can break the game, no questions asked, but isn't forced or must-use (as in the game is unbeatable without using her consistently throughout). (Yes she may have some small forced sections throughout, I'm talking more can't switch out of party ever-main character level. But.)
Kimhari: 0.5/10. Meanwhile 0/10 I'll save for completely irredeemable trash. Kimahri's just absolutely pointless.
Effectively, when the entire cast has their own niche and does it really damn well and can occasionally cover other niches, I've no issue giving all above-average grades. So.
Wallace: 2.5/10. Lyn Mode, 3 chapters!... and then may never be seen again. Yep.
Oswin: 7/10. Excellent tank, should steer clear of mages though.
Gilliam: 3/10. Eh.
Amelia: 4/10. Eh+ for possible potential. Yes, takes effort, but it's effing FE8.
Duessel: 4/10. Pre-raised potential. Crummy compared to others, but hey, starts off semi-competent, might as well.
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Welcome to she of the unusual opinions, Alanna's rankings!
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 9/10
Auron: 8/10
Rikku: 8/10
Wakka: 8/10
Lulu: 6/10
Yuna: 10/10
Kimhari: 5/10
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 5/10
Wendy: 5/10 shes amazing when trained. I used her twice and both times once she caught up she did amazing
Barth: 4/10
Douglas: 1/10
Wallace: 4/10
Oswin: 10/10 I think the only thing that can damage him is boss mages. Even armor slayers do 0 damage.
Gilliam: 9/10 Seriously people whats with the low scores. Gilliam has the EXACT Same growths as Oswin. Since enmies in FE8 fail, its easy for even Gilliam to double.
Amelia: 9/10 The tower is there to be abused
Duessel: 4/10 The game is so easy even people like Duessel are totally usable
Gatrie(9): 6/10
Brom(9): 5/10
Nephenee(9) 7/10 Never got the hype
Devdan: 3/10
Tauroneo(9): 3/10
Aran: 5/10 No speed
Meg: 6/10 Not as hard to train as people say
Tauroneo(10): 3/10
Nephenee(10): 7/10
Brom(10): 5/10
Danved: 1/10
Gatrie(10): 10/10 WTF tank with speed!
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Gilliam does not double anything. I just got done replaying the game and FE8's enemies are not even close to bad enough to be doubled by Gilliam.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Quick Hit and Hastega are sexy, but he's a bit lackluster before then.
Auron: 7/10. Breaks take the bite out of a bunch of bosses, he a big boost to the party when he joins (at least, he always feels like such anyway), and much like the DL, the easily obtain First Strike weapon is very nice for the endgame.
Rikku: 7/10. Pretty much all of those being Al Bhed Potions (though Steal in general is handy and high speed is useful even if you don't use her due to switching). VERY handy through probably the overall hardest section of the game (ie the ONE WITHOUT YUNA).
Wakka: 6/10. His niche felt underused at times, for some reason. Maybe there just weren't that many "big bad status vulnerable randoms", which really is what his skillset was for? I dunno.
Lulu: 6/10. Really lags for chunks of time between spells, and... I always feel like the offense is middling without Double Cast.
Yuna: 10/10. Yuna doesn't need the party.
Kimhari: 4/10. You can use him if you want. It's nothing great but he won't slow you down really.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 4/10. Eh, he fills in well enough at the start.
Wendy: 3/10. Never struck me as worth it, but doesn't look bad if you put in the time.
Barth: 2/10. Looked like Wendy but worse.
Douglas: 1/10. Man, screw you and your recruitment method (and double screw that I can't just kill you if I want the real final chapters)
Wallace: 4/10. Having the button to press for Lundgren is nice, but uuuuusually you shouldn't need it.
Oswin: 6/10. Solid enough, although the lategame has some large ass maps so I'm not feeling higher.
Gilliam: 4/10. I do not remember Gilliam at all. This tells me I didn't use him, but I think he was roughly equivelent to the "slightly overlevelled earlygame knight" type.
Amelia: 5/10. She turns out okay.
Duessel: 4/10. Hm. I seem to recall having the wall being useful.
Gatrie(9): 4/10. Usable enough.
Brom(9): 3/10.
Nephenee(9) 8/10. Damned good.
Devdan: Abstain. I'm... not sure I even got Devdan. No memory whatsoever of him.
Tauroneo(9): 2/10. Didn't stand out at all.
Aran: Abstain. I kinda killed him.
Meg: 3/10. Meh.
Tauroneo(10): 5/10. By god the fucking Dawn Brigade needed a goddamned tank. Pity he wasn't a less traditional one (For example, if they had Haar... mmmmmmm.)
Nephenee(10): 6/10. Didn't really impress this time.
Brom(10): 3/10. I recall letting him die, but hey, he's on some very limited party maps so that's something.
Danved: 4/10. SHakey start, didn't feel worth it.
Gatrie(10): 4/10. Lost in the background noise of the Greil broken.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 9/10 - Haste is the best buff in FF10.
Auron: 7/10 - Needs Tidus to really be effective but Tidus is such a good character to use so it isn't that bad of a downside.
Rikku: 8/10 - The items are solid and they can net you wins against some tough enemies early.
Wakka: 7/10 - Blind is quite a nice status but it becomes useless later on. Good thing he becomes better at that stage.
Lulu: 7/10 - Kills flans. Needs Tidus to fight effectivly.
Yuna:10/10 - Solos game.
Kimhari: 5/10 - He isn't that bad. Its just everyone else is really good while he is very much average.
Aran: 8/10 - Its him or Nephenee for the soldier class. Either one is a good option.
Meg: 1/10 - Never understood all the people that hold her up as a character unfairly raged on. She comes out of the box as one of the worst characters in the game and is hard to train into the area of being good. Yes there is bonus exp but hurts Meg more then it helps, also why would you bother anyway? Gatrie has more hp, defence, speed, attack, hell damn near everything better then her and he is around longer too. Just complete trash.
Tauroneo(10): 7/10 - Not as good as Gatrie but he kicks massive amounts of ass in one chapter with the cliffs. Park him in that area and the enemy will all fluff their turns on him before being painfully killed.
Nephenee(10): 8/10 - Is Aran but female. Has nice legs.
Brom(10): 4/10 - Fails when compared to Gatrie but he can effectivly block off areas in areas where he is the only tank.
Danved: 2/10 - Near pointless. The soldier couple are much more effective.
Gatrie(10): 9/10 - The best tank by a long margin. He'll be doubling while taking no damage in return for most of the game.
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Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 6/10
Wendy: 2/10
Barth: 5/10
Douglas: 1/10
Wallace: 5/10
Oswin: 7/10
Gilliam: 6/10
Amelia: 4/10
Duessel: 7/10
Gatrie(9): 7/10
Brom(9): 5/10
Nephenee(9): 7/10
Devdan: 4/10
Tauroneo(9): 4/10
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Final Fantasy 10: Later.
Tidus:
Auron:
Rikku:
Wakka:
Lulu:
Yuna:
Kimhari:
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 6/10 - TANK. Just having that makes him worth having around, and he's not too terrible at str or spd
Wendy: 4/10 - If she came a few chapters earlier she'd be awesome, as a slightly more offensive Bors, but level 1 with bad bases... ugh.
Barth: 3/10 - Just... can't kill anything ever.
Douglas: 2/10 Haha fail.
Wallace: 4/10 - Wins Lyn mode, somewhat usable later.
Oswin: 8/10 - Hector sans Wolf Beil.
Gilliam: 4/10 - The only game I felt no need to use the starting armor knight. Don't need tanks in FE8, and he doesn't kill much.
Amelia: 5/10 - Not quite as easy to catch up as Ross, but versatile + generally good stats and great supports.
Duessel: 4.5/10 - Great when you get him.
Gatrie(9): 6/10 - A decent wall who stays afloat the whole game.
Brom(9): 7/10 - A slow start, but the better speed brings his value up a bit.
Nephenee(9) 8/10 - Oh god the speed cap hurts. Otherwise, tough enough, fast, and Wrath.
Devdan: 4/10 - Just... there.
Tauroneo(9): 5/10 - Resolve is sick.
Aran: 7/10 - Awesome for DB, usable later on.
Meg: 2/10 - ...you could use her I guess? Only she has a bad start and she starts with the hardest group to catch bad characters up with.
Tauroneo(10): 7/10 - See Aran.
Nephenee(10): 7/10 - So many new choices lower her score from FE9, and her damage felt less awesome.
Brom(10): 5/10 - What a fall. Lost that speed advantage.
Danved: 5/10 - Good for the RK, that's about it.
Gatrie(10): 7/10 He stole Brom's speed! And has awesome strength!
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Haste is very good but he's actually sort of bad before then. Still... that's little enough of the game that I give him a good score, and his stats are adequate.
Auron: 2/10. Bad stats (no speed or MDef, damage and pdur are merely decent instead of great). Breaks are only good for a couple specific enemies and other, better people can get around armor.
Rikku: 3/10. Al-Bhed potions are nice MT healing that doesn't run out, but you have other sources of healing and that's all Rikku's really got going - other Use items require too much rote experimentation or FAQing to be a worthwhile perk and stealing in JRPGs can generally kiss my ass.
Wakka: 7/10. Good damage for much of the game which works on annoying evade/MDef whore enemies, good status, an actual noteworthy overdrive, and about as tough as Auron. Tapers off late in many respects, but real valuable for like the first 3/4ths.
Lulu: 6/10. Boring but solid, she packs a mean wallop and has decent survivability later on.
Yuna: 9/10. Not too impressed with her in-battle healing, but everything else is amazing - the best white magic buffs ever, battery healing, and Aeons to sponge big attacks and pile on some free damage.
Kimhari: 5/10. I made him a Rikku with actual strength and armor piercing and a leg up on the grid - usable but not outstanding. There's better uses but also much worse, so I feel okay about just going by personal experience.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Wallace: 1/10. Shit who even steals some experience on one map. Even just comparing him to physical-oriented FE7 prepromos he is bad.
Oswin: 8/10. Now we're talking. Strong start, good damage and doesn't counter himself to death against swarm tactics. Has to be kept away from mages, though.
Gilliam: 3/10. I mean, at least he's easy enough to use at first to see if the RNG blesses him.
Amelia: 6/10. I ain't one for full tower runs but giving trainees a quick blooddbath in the lower levels is reasonable for me, so Amelia's solid.
Duessel: 3/10. Can weaponless tank a couple maps after you get him! yeah...
Gatrie(9): 3/10. Oh, what a disappointment. Has an impressive early showing them vanishes, and comes back when he doesn't match up.
Brom(9): 3/10. Meh, knight ward abuse on a supbar character.
Nephenee(9): 9/10. MVP. The wrath + vantage combo is incredible and Neph is the only one who can get it for a while. Great stats even without that.
Devdan: 2/10. Shit.
Tauroneo(9): 4/10. Meh.
Rankings that I missed but care about:
Chrono Trigger:
Crono: 3/10. Bad lone damage, bad unite techs, bad support skillset. CT loves its multipart bosses though, and Crono gets quite the solution to them later on, so I can't poo-poo him too much.
Marle: 8/10. Good healing and buffs and cheap, painful unite techs. Good stuff.
Lucca: 5/10. Hits randoms hard, hits bosses hard, whether used alone or in a dual-tech, but that's all she's got. Lulu without a late durability spike.
Frog: 6/10. Marle-, still good.
Robo: 9/10. A lot of the same benefits as Marle, but instead of buffs he gets much better durability and, later on, a strong ST tech. A brick fighter, competent healer, and good group sweeper all in one.
Ayla: 3/10. Just doesn't stand out in any way, despite solid stats. Lacks purpose.
Magus: 3/10. Kinda like Lucca on his own, somewhat tougher though. His unites suck though, and all his shit is pretty expensive. Strong but expensive magic doesn't cut it as a good purpose in CT.
Mega Man X Command Mission:
X: 7/10. Good in any situation, but he never feels like he's breaking the game.
Zero: 6/10. Damage never felt that great unless he was unloading an HAT. Still, those things are useful, and he's never outright terrible when not going apeshit on a boss, just kind of underwhelming.
Spider: 3/10. Speed and... uh...
Massimo: 4/10. A bit better than Zero at what they're both good at because of tanking, but seriously drags ass in other situations, instead of just being passable.
Marino: 9/10. Good damage and a wonderfully flexible trump card.
Cinnamon: 2/10. Shitty healing and nothing else. But it's free!!!!
Axl: 5/10. Some nice crowd control I guess. Invincibility sucks. It lasts too short.
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Final Fantasy 10: Man, what a weird cast to rank. But so it goes.
Tidus: 7/10. Haste is an awesome status in FFX. His MP is a bit limited, so you can't spam it as much and some random battles end before Haste really takes effect. Sonic Steel is also win, and he probably deserves at least another 0.5 for that...but not today I suppose.
Auron: 6/10. Starts off pretty solid. Stat busting and the HP is pretty good, but he starts falling behind around 3/4 of the way through. Piercing is also a pretty easily replacable status, so I guess his niche is even easier to fill in. Although he does get some hilarious gimmick moves which are quite awesome in and of themselves (Zombie Attack/Entrust/Sentinel). Probably nets him out to around here.
Rikku: 8/10. I...think. How much milage you get out of Rikku really depends on how much stealing you end up doing. Since she can potentially end up getting a little of everything and have fast speed backed up to it along with no recharge time for some others (hi Hastega). The one thing that does stand out to me though, is that she has MT healing, which is sufficient enough for a while. You can even double it with Alchemy and its plenty servicable.
Wakka: 7.5/10. A bit better than Tidus to me. Haste isn't as practical in some fights whereas Wakka's status remains relatively solid. Also IIRC, some of the wolves early on have weakness, which with the right element in hand, let's Wakka end up occassionally being able to smite them too, even if he otherwise could not. Can't do this later once the wolves start losing elemental weaknesses, but yeah. Tidus can't say the same though because there's no weapon effect that boosts accuracy. Larger potential damage and more useful early I feel.
Lulu: 6.5/10. I feel similar to CK on this. Objectively, she's really good. But there are some definitive periods of lag between spells which keeps her out of the top three for me. Gets notably better around end game since by then she has all the sphere stat bonuses, double cast and Flare.
Yuna: 10/10. She's like a 8/10 for the White Magic alone. But then you know, she has aeons, that easy ultimate weapon and other ridiculous cheese (some of the better armors given to her)...yeah.
Kimhari: 3/10. I...ugh. I can say, yeah he's probably better, but considering the first or even the second time through, knowing which route to send Kim down isn't the most obvious thing in the world. And sending him down the WRONG route creates a huge drawback because he now has to take extra time to make up that distance in levelling.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 6/10. Reasonably solid, especially early on when you don't mass evade tanks or what not. His raw defense is great. Hampered by the low Move here obviously and his Hit is actually something to be worried about. Starts getting more replacable later on (especially when you have units that start to gain better evade/offense). But he's not a bad unit to bring in late or anything.
Wendy: 1/10. hay guize. I r teh ninos in dis gaem. woot woot luk at my awsum stats wich end up liek Bors only I r underlevelled and don't end up bettar than him. Yeah. No.
Barth: 2.5/10. Uh...he's most notable to me for having MORE Def than Bors and has 2% RES GROWTH YESZ. This probably says something.
Douglas: 0.5/10. Gets almost doubled by Bolting Mages. ALMOST DOUBLED BY BOLTING MAGES. AHKJHKJHKJFHASIOSFJSFD. INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS!!!
Wallace: uh...he's Athos in Lyn mode. So 7/10 if we pretend he never exists for the next 20 chapters. Or he would be like a 3/10 if we include those. Costs you a better unit and that speed is unsalvagable.
Oswin: 7/10. As far as PCs go, I count only around 2 other units that might be better than Oswin (one of which we've already seen). Oswin might not double, but he tanks like a champ. Move is bad, but can't win 'em all.
Gilliam: 4/10. Gilliam is basically in a game where every other unit is better than him offensively. His only really big selling point is the early tanking when you haven't acquired as many PCs yet (and I remember NEB and I hashed out in chat, that the number of levels where that lasts is even less in actual practice due to the lolaxeenemies early on). Otherwise, yeah you can use him. He just takes a long to catch up speed wise.
Amelia: 3/10. Is effectively Wendy except has notable potential and can do some unique things herself. If you get there.
Duessel: 4/10. lollegendaryobsidiangeneral. Well at least he's usable filler for a few maps.
Gatrie(9): 3.5/10. See Gilliam basically. Gatrie has it even worse though since now he's dealing with Canto and Ike/Oscar/Titania lolling at everything when he's supposed to be somewhat awesome. So even less early use. By the time he finally rejoins, the move is a hinderance and his speed is atrocious.
Brom(9): 5/10. If you insist on using an armor in FE9, he's probably it. Requires some Knight Ward use there, but some good supports in there (notably Boyd) keeps him afloat enough that he might see time for it.
Nephenee(9): 7/10. Starts off kinda bad, gets pretty damn destructive later.
Devdan: 3/10. Uh...mid game filler but is pretty bad. I rather use Muarim than him for example >_>
Tauroneo(9): 4/10. Late game filler instead of mid game. Also notably better skill in Resolve.
Aran: 7/10. So DB has the following people for competent tanking: Volug, possibly Nolan, possibly Jill. If you want someone who's more concrete, Aran is your man. Yeah, his speed is bad, but even when he's getting double, he probably ends up taking less damage than Zihark. That says something. Also, his support affinity is winsome. Not a final ten pick, but he's really good when he's there.
Meg: 3/10. Usable in theory and better project type than say FIONA. In practice, I just usually end up splitting that experience to Aran/Nolan/Jill/Zihark. So...
Tauroneo(10): 5/10. Uh...godlike in like the two maps in part 1. In part 3, he's servicable (not great, but servicable). Part 4, he's pretty bad >_>. So averagish altogether.
Nephenee(10): 7/10. FE9 Neph all over again. Still has the laggy start (2-1 is notable because Neph isn't dominating and Brom is doing copious amounts of work). Still gets ridiculously destructive later. Strength might need some work, but bonusing.
Brom(10): 5/10. I think. Useful in a few stages especially a couple with the choke points. If you're using him, you're using him because you need a wall. He's just never that good offensively.
Danved: 4/10. Notably decent during the CRK stint. You can put more effort into him, but...
Gatrie(10): 8/10. Wow. Talk about an improvement. Gatrie went from not doubling ever, to doubling and taking lol damage at everything, effectively one rounding people that are dumb enough to hit him without a Hammer. You can kinda circumvent the move with Celerity, but he's never getting flight or Canto, so he's always effectively Haar-. Might be the 4th best GM to me.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 9/10
Auron: 5/10
Rikku: 7/10
Wakka: 8/10
Lulu: 6/10
Yuna: 10/10
Kimhari: 4/10
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors:
Wendy:
Barth:
Douglas:
Wallace: 4/10
Oswin: 6/10
Gilliam:
Amelia:
Duessel:
Gatrie(9): 7/10
Brom(9): 2/10
Nephenee(9): 8/10
Devdan: 3/10
Tauroneo(9): 5/10
Aran: 7/10
Meg: 1/10
Tauroneo(10): 6/10
Nephenee(10): 9/10
Brom(10): 5/10
Danved: 3/10
Gatrie(10): 6/10
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 9/10 - Haste is the best buff in FF10.
Auron: 7/10 - Needs Tidus to really be effective but Tidus is such a good character to use so it isn't that bad of a downside.
Rikku: 8/10 - The items are solid and they can net you wins against some tough enemies early.
Wakka: 7/10 - Blind is quite a nice status but it becomes useless later on. Good thing he becomes better at that stage.
Lulu: 7/10 - Kills flans. Needs Tidus to fight effectivly.
Yuna:10/10 - Solos game.
Kimhari: 5/10 - He isn't that bad. Its just everyone else is really good while he is very much average.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Yeah, Haste is pretty awesome, and decent otherwise.
Auron: 7/10. Fantastic early-game, and still handy as a tank / Breaker in the late-game. Don't use him against the evasive sure but whatever. Being able to do things like "survive Ultimate Jecht Shot" and "has initiative vs. Marlboros" meant he usually was in the front 3 in the end-game.
Rikku: 6/10. Sure, Al-Bhed Potion hype, though no Mix hype (screw experimenting / FAQing on this). Still, really fast healing is handy. Postgame becomes *insane* because you grab Quick Hit and Tidus's late STR boosts and all of the sudden she isn't doing terrible damage off fighter jet speed.
Wakka: 5/10. Fantastic against randoms, except I didn't really have much trouble killing randoms anyway.
Lulu: 4/10. Sure, kills Flans, but the offense does lack a bit before Doublecast, and the speed is terrible. Evade is nice but I prefer to be able to survive the worst case scenario.
Yuna: 9/10.
Kimhari: 5/10. I have a hard time giving Kim a bad score when at worse he's basically a clone of whatever character you feel fits your playstyle best who will be extra tanky bit a bit slow. I made him a Rikku clone myself for speed and because it was convenient to have 2 steals go off for XP-purposes in random battles.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Wallace: 4/10, insurance for Lyn boss battle.
Oswin: 6/10, didn't really use him but see the appeal.
Gilliam: 4/10. Whatever.
Amelia: 3/10. Not a fan of FE8's project characters.
Duessel: 4/10. Okay for the battles against Selena and Vigarde in Eph path, sure.
Gatrie(9): 3/10. Probably not an active liability but FE9 maps were rarely claustrophobic castles with lots of chokepoints; too many wide-open field maps where Gatrie doesn't translate well.
Brom(9): 4/10. More available than Gatrie.
Nephenee(9): 7/10. Pretty good stats, though still a bit frail and meh move.
Devdan: 3/10.
Tauroneo(9): 4/10.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 8/10. I love speed games, so Tidus played right into my style.
Auron: 6/10. He's got some great parts, but never really dominating.
Rikku: 8/10. More speed games, steal+use is funfun, ABPs are awesome and Mix was cool to play with. All around useful.
Wakka: 6/10. See Auron, really.
Lulu: 4/10. Always felt like the weak link in the cast that matters. Not bad, would possibly be brilliant in another game, but too much competition here.
Yuna: 10/10. This does not need explaining.
Kimhari: 3/10. Sub-Lulu, definately. Throwing him into Rikku's grid gets some use out of him at least.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 5/10. Not bad. Great def in a game where Def is rare counts for something.
Wendy: Haven't tried using her yet, so abstaining.
Barth: 3/10. Strong start, but seems to fall behind fast. Which is about the only thing he does fast.
Douglas: 1/10. Uh. Speed. Get some. Seriously. Better Res wouldn't hurt either. All that Def counts for something between diddly and squat when you can't dodge shit and everything doubles you.
Wallace: 4/10. All 4 points come from Lyn's mode.
Oswin: 8/10. Beastly, but the move hurts so much. Want to rate him a 9 from all the times he's turned out well for me, but...I really can't bring myself to. The move is painful.
Gilliam: 5/10. Eh, he gets the job done well enough. Nothing to write home about though, either way.
Amelia: 3/10. I try to use her and get her to turn out well, but she usually ends up lagging, no matter what route I send her down.
Duessel: 4/10. Decently useful out of the box prepromo, I suppose. Not that you should need such things in FE8 ever.
Gatrie(9): 6/10. Wish he were around longer, but at least he's not Shinon. Manages to pull his own weight well enough with my playstyle.
Brom(9): 5/10. Found him worse then Gatrie the time I used him. I get that he has more potential at least, so I'm not holding that against him too hard. Average works.
Nephenee(9): 8/10. Yeah, she kinda wrecks shit.
Devdan: 3/10. Filler. Not particularly good filler, either.
Tauroneo(9): 4/10. Resolve is cool, but eh.
Aran: 8/10. Same score as FE9 Nephenee works. He's a damn beast for the DB sections once he gets rolling, and that counts for a lot.
Meg: Didn't use her last game, using her this one, so reserving judgement for now.
Tauroneo(10): 5/10. gets points for being an option during some of the rough parts in Part 1. Doesn't exist after that, to be frank.
Nephenee(10): 7/10. Felt like she lost a bit of steam from the last game. Or maybe just has harsher competition. Also, while she did turn out better then Aran overall...he's around during areas that desperately need the help while she's got plenty of other folks who can fill in for her.
Brom(10): 5/10. Hardly bad, but not really great either? Sure, average works.
Danved: 3/10. Warm body for the CRK part, I suppose. Fails to exist after that.
Gatrie(10): 8/10. Haar- really sums him up. He found some steroids between 9 and 10, and he was hardly bad in 9.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Haste, but sucks otherwise until you get his final overdrive.
Auron: 7/10. Needs to be hasted but Breaks make bosses even easier.
Rikku: 6/10. I never really got that much use out of... well, Use, and Mix was FAQ bait. Still, fast and Al Behd potions.
Lulu: 4/10. Kinda sucks until Doublecast/Flare.
Yuna: 10/10. Even without the optional Aeons she is ridiculous.
Kimhari: 1/10. Worthless unless you use a Warp sphere.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Haste -is- cool. Problem is he isn't that great otherwise. On the other hand, also fast PC and good for swapping, and he starts getting nuts in the endgame. Solid in the boiling of eggs.
Auron: 3/10. His main niche is covered by others and the stat spread just needs a ton of work. Shit speed and accuracy puts you in the low end of randombusting worth (not that bad in practice, swapping exists, but), and his offense wasn't strong enough to make him a good boss slugger. Not to mention breaks were just too situational.
Rikku: 5/10. Yeah, Use is pretty sparable by other PCs. Speed gets her an extra point, though, like with Tidus. Use -is- a decently cool skillset anyway, though, and I tended to keep my inventories pretty well-stocked.
Wakka: 7.5/10. Status is -excellent- against randoms and he covers both Tidus' randombusting niche and gets a unique one. Against bosses, his overdrives did the trick well enough. Probably the best physicaller, adequate stat spread and awesome skillset to go with it.
Lulu: 7/10. She's an odd case. Lulu's always swinging up and down on the damage averages until the lategame, but hitting elemental weaknesses is pretty huge and she has a unique niche. Lategame's amazing offense spike also comes coupled with an effective durability spike (Phantom Bangle elemental walling+MDef+evade reaches the realm of completely nuts), so she works out. Being slow sucks, but it's more manageable when you can swap her in, and, unlike Auron, she covers things no one else can without massive tapdancing.
Yuna: 10/10. Even before Aeons, she's MVP. Battery healing is godly (in-battle isn't as good, no noteworthy MT, but it works), her stat spread is excellent and the buffs are godly - not to mention she's the third member of the swap-out trifecta of Rikku/Tidus/Yuna, which alone earns her points to me. She -also- gets Lulu's offense+durability spike lategame, which makes things even more interesting. Then you factor in the I win button that is Aeon spamming. Ryu3-like indeed.
Kimhari: 7/10 works for me, as a personal experience thing. Kimahri going through Rikku's early grid then fast-tracking to Yuna's gave me a very much needed backup healer and Al Bhed Potion spammer, and he also benefitted from getting Holy earlier and Curaga even earlier and... yeah, the build works out nicely. Depending on how you fast-track him, he can be very good, unremarkable or worthless, but I was glad he was there given the niche I put him. Very easy to underrate how valuable a full-blown healer is in FFX, and having the backup Yuna skillset was very nice.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 7/10. I'm never very fond of Armor Knights (4 initial move eeeeeeeew), but Bors has the right stat spread and is on your side from the beginning. Accuracy is an issue, but his supports are also quite solid and hit the right stats for him (accuracy/offense).
Wendy: 2/10. You know, I wouldn't mind the projectiness very much, since Wendy doesn't start hopelessly behind nor is she late (earlyish midgame isn't too bad a point to start raising a charac. But her stat build is basically -Bors'-. If you're using an Armor Knight at all, you've started building him and he's already past her considerably, and he even has somewhat superior supports. That's just a waste of time.
Barth: 1/10. HE HAS A BIT MORE DEFENSE THAN BORS. And absolutely fails at everything Bors succeeds at. Go away.
Douglas: 1/10. 8 SPEED AT LATEGAME AW YEAH *Flush.*
Wallace: 2/10. Lyn showing doesn't give me a lot of love-related vibes.
Oswin: 7/10. Sure. He's a crutch early and is solid later. Not very enamored with how the offense pans out, but he's worth bothering with and nearly necessary for a while.
Gilliam: 2/10. 3 starting speed? Off that growth? Fuck you.
Amelia: 2/10. Sort of a pain in the ass to raise - and, much like Wendy, you won't get from her anything you wouldn't get from other people who are easier to raise and start out better and earlier.
Duessel: 3/10. Feels far less impressive of a Jeigan than Seth.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 8.5/10- Almost always worst starting for Quick hitted haste/hastega. Gets passable damage with quick hit, but it's pretty late. Hastega is just that damn good in FFX.
Auron: 6/10- Breaks are pretty broken in some boss fights, but useless in others. Having 1 of the 2 joke ultimates helps too.
Rikku: 6/10- Al Bhed potions own early/mid game, stealing is decent. Basically Al Bhed potions though.
Wakka: 5/10- Kills speed units, which early on is a total nuisance, but seemed less useful than Auron/Rikku overall.
Lulu: 3/10- Being slow as shit does NOT help. Not getting Doublecasted Flare until super late also doesn't help. Having a shitty overdrive also doesn't help. She would be 1.5-2 except for her insane evade that works well on a lot of super powerful, but inaccurate enemies.
Yuna: 10/10- Solos game and all that.
Kimhari: 2/10- Purely based on getting E&C so easily!
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Wallace: 1/10- Umm... blows
Oswin: 4/10- Does okay for an armored?
Gilliam: 4/10- I don't find this class terribly useful usually.
Amelia: 3/10- Might be good, but leveling her is a pain. She is seriously 3x harder to level than Nino via lacking evade and getting 1 shotted by fucking swordsmen.
Duessel: 2/10- Gets a point for being an awesome tank in a level with a ton of enemies. (After unequipping him of course.)
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For a change I will rant about something that isn't FE!
I don't understand why Wakka isn't getting more respect. Hastega aside, he's clearly the best fighter. He has the best hit (you virtually have to use him against certain types of randoms due to this, whereas Tidus lacks a niche and Auron/Kimahri both have Pierce; also armoured enemies are usually killable by magic anyway). Wakka also has way more HP (and usually more strength) than Tidus, and way more speed than Auron. Dark/Sleep/Silence are more generally useful than breaks or slow/delay, Sleep is lolhax against anything vulnerable (which includes a BOSS by the way) and dark/silence are game over to any number of one-dimensional enemies; all three of these statuses are great and you don't have enough Skill Spheres to hand them all out to others like candy (not to mention his str/hit combo makes him their best user anyway!). He has the best magic for what that's worth (does matter for Osmose at worst) and the best Overdrives of the fighters by FAR (i.e. over 2x the mults of what Tidus/Auron have generally).
I can kinda see Tidus above him if you think Hastega is just that good (or if you think his small speed advantage is that big a deal), but you're a White Magic Sphere from giving that to someone else (only one before the airship, granted, so there's a fight over it), and Hastega is only relevant/unique to Tidus for a certain length of time. Giving Tidus significant credit for Quick Hit is a classic case of "you're doing it wrong!" because you can and should use Skill/Friend/Teleport Spheres to get that for all of your fighters.
Wakka's also the one of the three Kimahri has the hardest time replacing (not sure why you'd -want- a second Auron but...) because he lacks the hit and overdrives which are such a big part of why Wakka is good.
And if this rant doesn't make it clear I think Auron is immensely overrated. First Strike is a reasonable customise midgame, let alone endgame (when it's certainly far easier than nabbing a celestial), and otherwise he is Wakka with worse everything except for like 5% more HP and Strength.
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Well... keep in mind that I have all of a point of difference between Wakka and Tidus/Auron, so this is a very subtle distinction. Anyway.
Ultimately I'm inclined to look at FFX more based on bosses than randoms, because while FFX has a fair whack of randoms and all, 70% or so of enemies are designed to be easily slain by a given party member (Wolves for Tidus (he... usually has higher strength than Wakka for this reason, he OHKOs them and Wakka doesn't, it's just that Wakka jumps out ahead at the end...) Fliers for Wakka, Robots for Rikku, Shelled for Auron, Flans for Lulu, various status whorish things for Aeons. Okay so Kim doesn't count.), meaning they all have a baseline use against them and no one really stands out, because it boils down to "pull out correct party member, OHKO". So for bosses, Auron's breaks can hit many of them, Wakka's statuses not so much. The big bad uber-randoms (the Sand Worm in Bikanel, the giant bird class of enemy, so on) doesn't fall into either catagory, and Wakka does really shine against them, but as I mentioned, I don't recall running into enough of these for it to make up his skillset going to waste against bosses.
The awesomeness of Attack Reels is a point, although I fail at reels as a rule so don't tend to weigh them as a plus >.>
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When I last played through Wakka's attack was also pretty bad for awhile. Later on this evens out and he ends up with a nice combination of better speed than Auron and better damage than Tidus, but around the middle of the game Tidus out damages him and Tidus is on the low end of the damage scale. Personally, I think Lulu isn't getting a lot of respect, but I generally fought lots of fights so her spells were generally up to date.
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My own memory is the opposite, that Tidus never beats Wakka in attack except in Besaid and Kilika and Wakka often has rather large leads (note that while they are tied in DL stats, Tidus is relying on +8 Strength from L3/L4 locks, and the end of his grid is very strength-heavy in general which is one reason everyone wants to go there, so... yeah, he really does do some catching up). Certainly I use Wakka to kill all the lizard/wolf types just fine from Mi'ihen on. Now I'm tempted to go through the sphere grids and compare them at all points but that would take too much time. Auron's leads vary from substantial to not but I don't think the gap is ever enough to make up for the speed.
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Could be because I tend not to use things like Teleport spheres in the main game because they help go out of their way to clone characters, which I find annoying. This is also why I didn't break out of the 3 main jobs for anyone in FF13 during the main game, not even to get cure/ruin for people. So Wakka spamming quick hit is meh.
And yes, his 3 statuses are good, but as you mentioned they're useful on A boss. The breaks work on quite a few bosses if memory serves. They also win fights on more big bad randoms than the statuses do. (Again, this is just from my memory of the game, if this isn't true feel free to correct.)
Tidus kills birds fairly easily just like Wakka can 1 shot a lot of the wolf type animals. Some birds had good enough evade... but most just kind of die.
Finally, Hastega is the best thing in the game that isn't an Aeon by a good margin. Yes you "could" give it to someone else, but as I mentioned above I hate cloning my characters and it could go to anyone, so it's not benefiting anyone. (If I gave it to anyone it'd be Rikku because she's fast as hell.)
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And yes, his 3 statuses are good, but as you mentioned they're useful on A boss. The breaks work on quite a few bosses if memory serves. They also win fights on more big bad randoms than the statuses do. (Again, this is just from my memory of the game, if this isn't true feel free to correct.)
Tidus kills birds fairly easily just like Wakka can 1 shot a lot of the wolf type animals. Some birds had good enough evade... but most just kind of die.
Finally, Hastega is the best thing in the game that isn't an Aeon by a good margin. Yes you "could" give it to someone else, but as I mentioned above I hate cloning my characters and it could go to anyone, so it's not benefiting anyone. (If I gave it to anyone it'd be Rikku because she's fast as hell.)
On Breaks: Off the top of my head, there are only two bosses who you really benefit from Breaking: Sinspawn Gui (Power Break) and Defender X (Armor break). I think NEB's point is that Wakka's status on randoms is much more devastating since you fight more of them compared to bosses and the bosses that are vulnerable and where Breaking is efficient are so few and inbetween that the status just beat out the breaks.
Breaks don't win against big nasty randoms anymore than Wakka's variety of crippling statii, so I'm definitely disagreeing there. Aside from skills, Wakka gets a Stone Touch weapon, so that's 5 types of status he can inflict (POIZN/Blind/Sleep/Silence/Petrify). Auron/Tidus do not unless you forge one from 30 Petrify Grenades IIRC. Just some examples I can think of where Wakka's status trumps Auron's breaks when both are applicable:
Garuda: Clear win for Wakka here. The big guy flies, and even though Breaking works, it has no Defense worth worrying over. Status on the other hand quite clearly disrupts it.
Iron Giants: Wakka can Blind Buster it, causing it to fail miserably since everything it has is attached is attached to Accuracy. Auron can use Armor Break to speed up the battle along with his Piercing weapon. Of note is that Breaks also have a significant recharge time that Wakka's status often do not have. So Blinding it might be a better option.
Adamantoise: Wakka either Blind Busts, or better yet, uses that Stone Touch weapon and OHKO when petrify hits. Auron either requires a Stone Touch weapon to compete or loses completely because Armor Breaking it doesn't get any faster than Stone Touch here.
Also scanning over the bestiary, a lot of randoms that you want to be using physicals on anyway rarely ever have defense that matters. Unless the battle goes on for a while, Magic/Power Break are rarely ever worth utilizing.
On Birds: Tidus can one shot birds yes. My memory is that his strength is marginally better than Wakka's (hence, Tidus is supposed to kill Wolves who usually have a little bit more HP than fliers). However, Tidus' accuracy against even early game fliers is like 40-50%. Wakka is guaranteed to hit, which makes a big difference. IIRC, FFX's hit formula makes it such that even the slightest bit of evade means the target usually has large problems trying to hit. Something lik 5 points of Accuracy = 1% actual hit.
On Hastega: I'm going to have to say Use here >_>. Use has a low recharge rate, and you can use a Chocobo Wing to provide Hastega to the entire party without the 2x recharge rate that comes with normal casting (also saves 30 MP!). Because of that, I wouldn't give Hastega to Rikku myself if I got the choice. Use provides you with a bunch of options. I can understand saying that Rikku isn't necessary good though (since its more Use being win than Rikku being win).
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On Breaks: Off the top of my head, there are only two bosses who you really benefit from Breaking: Sinspawn Gui (Power Break) and Defender X (Armor break). I think NEB's point is that Wakka's status on randoms is much more devastating since you fight more of them compared to bosses and the bosses that are vulnerable and where Breaking is efficient are so few and inbetween that the status just beat out the breaks.
Seymour Omnis is also someone breaks are worthwhile for, providing you aren't just going for "AEON SMASH", and don't have Celestials...and even if you do have Celestials, it still helps boost the damage of Magic as his Magic Defense is still significant enough, not to mention using Celestials on him = you gain no AP!!!!
Also, it is worth noting that Busters only last one turn, so Wakka has to constantly re-apply it, contrast to Breaks which last the entire fight. The Attack variants, which have less hit rate (though still generally adequate enough) last 3 turns; generally, Busters are only really useful if the enemy has absurd status defense such that the Attacks kind of fail, as otherwise you're constantly using MP to re-apply the status, though Wakka having Osmose makes it not as much of an issue as it could be, but just stating that just going "He has a Buster!" is not entirely remedying the scenario.
that said...
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10. Haste and Slow are good stuff, Cheer is as well when trying to squeeze out that Overkill, and I do recall him having more strength than Wakka until around Bevelle, which means he's killing wolves (or alternatively, Overkilling them when Wakka cannot.) Early Counterattack weapons don't hurt either.
Auron: 5/10. I'm somewhere in the middle, finding Auron decent enough at what he did, but nothing special at the same time. Though, I do want to note that anti-hyping him for Magic Defense is absurd; he has more than Wakka and Tidus, and he's got more than enough HP to make the lack of MDef trivial (he's one of the people who consistently survives Total Annihilation, for example), and since FF10 is NOT a game where MDef is a factor against hit rate...yeah.
Rikku: 6/10. Mix is good stuff, Use is good too, though that's really easy for Kimhari to steal the niche of cause, speed aside, its stat independent, and one of her EARLIER skills. Gets half a point for having actual usability underwater!
Wakka: 7.5/10. Yeah, Status is just too good to ignore (I was mostly slamming the oversimplification of the scenario, not so much the status itself), the accuracy cannot be easily replicated and Attack Reels hurts.
Lulu: 6/10. Nice Powerhouse and good for slaughtering Flans, but not much beyond that. The fact that its possible to make Yuna more or less steal her exact niche and do it BETTER after a point is a major strike against her.
Yuna: 10/10. I wanna give her lower, but I can't justify it; Aeons are just too damn good, and without them, she's still a Healer with good buffs, who can make a good Black Mage later on.
Kimhari: 6/10. Decently flexible, but he never quite felt good enough to justify higher. Also, crappy overdrives don't really help.
Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 5/10. OK as a wall, but found him worthless offensively until he promoted due to Non-Sword Melee weapons sucking ass. He was much better when promoted, granted.
Wendy: 2/10. Bors with a shit load more effort required. PASS.
Barth: 3/10. TOTAL WALL! Good out of the gate at being that, never gets better or something.
Douglas: 1/10. Cost me so many freaking resets BEFORE joining, then got doubled by Bolting, FAIL.
Wallace: 4/10. Absurd Trump Card in Lyn mode, and even if not promoted, he's still pretty good there. Later...well, he's kind of meh, though, if you didn't promote him and manage to keep him alive, he's kind of alright.
Oswin: 7/10. Now we're talking! Tank, Lances don't totally suck in FE7, and is over leveled so especially strong out of the gate.
Gilliam: 3/10. Good defense early on, not much else.
Amelia: 3/10. Good potential, pain in the ass to raise.
Duessel: 3/10. Alright when you first get him, but he never gets any better.
Gatrie(9): 4/10. Gilliam only more useful early on.
Brom(9): 5/10. Overall better than Gatrie.
Nephenee(9) 7.5/10. Now we're talking! Never found her quite as absurd as others, but she certainly was respectable enough.
Devdan: 3/10. Not too bad, but he's only good for filling holes, and there's better characters for that role.
Tauroneo(9): 4/10. Alright for what he is, but what he is isn't much. Resolve is pretty neat though.
Aran: 7/10. Good tank in a team that DAMN WELL NEEDS ONE. Also has passable offense due to high strength.
Meg: 3/10. Feels considerably worse than Aran on all fronts; she doubles things he doesn't eventually, but not sure that's enough.
Tauroneo(10): 4/10. Dawn Brigade's version of Wallace in Part 1, becomes a generic high level prepromo for Part 3, falls off by a notable amount in Part 4, though is still usable.
Nephenee(10): 8/10. Ok, now here's where she kicked some ass; Swordmaster with a Lance and better defense, pretty much. This means so much more in this game where doubling is a lot harder than it was in previous games.
Brom(10): 5/10. Servicable enough tank throughout Part 2 and Part 3, but...that's about it.
Danved: 4/10. Pulls his weight in the Crimean Royal Knights while not being a burden, but after those chapters, he feels hard to justify using, especially since he competes with Nephenee and Aran.
Gatrie(10): 8/10. Why you don't give Generals good speed without compensating somewhere. Gatrie is a Mighty Glacier ON ROLLER SKATES!!! Good on pretty much all fronts...except move where he has some issues. That's actually pretty much his only flaw.
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Note on my Wakka rating: I fail miserably at reels type stuff. So yeah, that does get held against him. If it was a system wide thing that all characters used, I wouldn't, since that would be more my problem then anything. But one character requiring a certain type of skill that I'm frankly bad at while others don't? Yeah, gets held against the character. This still leaves him at 6/10, so it's not a huge hit, but it is there.
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Reels suck. Enough said.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 6/10. Speed and hits hard enough to get by. Hasting is nice.
Auron: 7/10. Party's heavy hitter.
Rikku: 2/10. Gotten late and I never found her useful by then.
Wakka: 3/10. Useful for killing fliers but nothing else.
Lulu: 6/10. Walking nuke station.
Yuna: 9.5/10. Gameplay skip button. The half point off is for intangibles, like encouraging less XP going around since it's easier to summon an Aeon right off and have it bash the battles down.
Kimhari: 5/10. Backup.
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Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7.45
Auron: 5.80
Rikku: 5.78
Wakka: 6.25
Lulu: 6.13
Yuna: 9.80
Kimahri: 3.83
Fire Emblem Armors and Lance Users (or whatever the fuck I called them):
Bors: 5.40
Wendy: 2.39
Barth: 2.85
Douglas: 1.10
Wallace: 3.12
Oswin: 6.85
Gilliam: 3.82
Amelia: 4.09
Duessel: 4.00
Gatrie(9): 5.00
Brom(9): 4.96
Nephenee(9): 7.81
Devdan: 3.18
Tauroneo(9): 3.92
Aran: 6.80
Meg: 3.60
Tauroneo(10): 5.36
Nephenee(10): 7.50
Brom(10): 4.82
Danved: 3.35
Gatrie(10): 7.32
Highest Rating of this session: Yuna with 9.80
Lowest rating of this session: Douglas with 1.10
Also, you all fail for NOT INDICATING I SPELLED KIMAHRI'S NAME WRONG. I can't really make good on any threat so I won't make any, but HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY "PLEASE PUBLICIZE ANY FUCK UPS I MAKE"!?!?!?
...moving on in any event...
Super Mario RPG:
Mario:
Mallow:
Geno:
Bowser:
Toadstool:
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott:
Wade:
Geese:
Gonzales:
Bartre(6):
Garret:
Dorcas:
Bartre(7):
Dart:
Hawkeye:
Geitz:
Garcia:
Ross:
Dozla:
Boyd(9):
Mordecai(9):
Muarim(9):
Largo:
Giffca(9):
Nolan:
Muarim(10):
Mordecai(10):
Boyd(10):
Kyza:
Skrimir:
Caineghis:
Giffca(10):
As usual, if any corrections are to be made, be it spelling, characters I've missed, etc. SPEAK UP NO! Note that my title also says "Lions and Tigers" specifically, which is to say, I purposely ignored Cats <_<
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: Averagish, as befitting his status as... well, The Mario. Maybe he'd score higher if I were better at timing jumps? I dunno. 5.5/10
Mallow: Decent early, not so much later on. 4/10
Geno: Geno Boost is kinda silly. Other stuff is pretty cool as well. 7/10
Bowser: lawl. 3/10
Toadstool: Never had any problems keeping her alive and Group Hug is just silly. Sure you can go "it's an easy game anyway you don't need it" but that kinda seems like disregarding Ephraim in FE8 simply because offense isn't at all hard to come by there. So yeah. 9/10
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: A little weak but the overall stat spread is still fairly decent. Supports are gravy, of course. FE6 axes, though, and that and FE Clause keeps him to a 3.5/10. Would help if he started out a bit sturdier.
Wade: 20% speed growth lawl + FE6 axes. 2/10
Geese: Well, he has a free Brave Axe IIRC. That's cool, at least. 3.5/10
Gonzales: Strength! Speed! Cannot hit the broad side of a barn! 2/10
Bartre(6): Well he could be much worse. 2/10
Garret: lawl. 1/10
Dorcas: oh hey guyz 20% speed growth am I doing it right? 2.5/10
Bartre(7): Meanwhile, he has a base speed of 3. Makes it bleh to get him up even if the growth there is decent, but still. 3/10
Dart: Well, it's a good thing for him that I don't care about rankings. Still, that start is kinda weak. 3.5/10
Hawkeye: Could use some more speed. 3/10
Geitz: I guess. 3/10
Garcia: At least he had the option to promote to Hero. 3/10
Ross: Early enough to be kinda worth the trouble of raising. 4/10
Dozla: lawl. 0.5/10
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10
Mallow: 5.5/10
Geno: 9/10
Bowser: 8/10
Toadstool: 8.5/10
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott:
Wade:
Geese:
Gonzales:
Bartre(6):
Garret:
Dorcas: 1/10
Bartre(7): 2/10
Dart: 2/10
Hawkeye: 1/10
Geitz: 3/10
Garcia: 3/10
Ross: 1/10
Dozla: 1/10
Boyd(9): 6/10
Mordecai(9): 6/10
Muarim(9): 2/10
Largo: 2/10
Giffca(9): 6/10
Nolan: 7/10
Muarim(10): 5.5/10
Mordecai(10): 6/10
Boyd(10): 7.5/10
Kyza: 2/10
Skrimir: 5.5/10
Caineghis: 8/10
Giffca(10): 7.5/10
-
Again, ignoring other games I don't know, so no SMRPG or FE6-7.
Garcia: 6.5/10. He was decently usable, at least. Nothing amazing, but he worked.
Ross: Abstain, didn't use him.
Dozla: 7.5/10. wait what. Yeah, seriously, I used Dozla to tear shit up for a good part of the game. Only person I had who could survive a Valter critical, and easily destroyed both him and Caellach, etc. Trailed off later on when enemies started making the most of his poor defences.
Boyd(9): 8.5/10. Ouch. I've found he tends to take a little effort to keep alive due to defences, and his defences let him down -a little- lategame (not as much as the alternative, mind >.>) but he TEARS SHIT UP. Simple as that. Boyd goes in front of an enemy, the enemy dies.
Mordecai(9): Abstain, never used.
Muarim(9): 8.5/10. RNG-blessed? Probably. Muarim was a freaking tank. Left him with the Demi Band and he still didn't take damage, and was generally useful for movement range, if nothing else. Tearing enemies apart up until the final stage or two helps.
Largo: 3/10. hahaha Largo. Defences are too low for his HP to mean anything, and he got killed within minutes of using him. Add in lategame in a game with lots of options, and Largo SUCKS.
Giffca(9): 6/10. Laguz Royal. Seeing as they're last stage only, 6/10 is the max I'll give. And all of them will probably get it. >.>
Nolan: 9/10. Okay, yeah. This guy is a lifesaver in the entire DB section, and is damn amazing past that. Definitely one of the best in RD.
Muarim(10): Abstain, never used him.
Mordecai(10): Abstain, same again.
Boyd(10): Abstain again...
Kyza: And again...
Skrimir: 8.5/10. Okay, finally! Skrimir hahaha yeah. Do I really need to comment here? He's like Giffca was in 9, but with much more availability.
Caineghis: 7/10. Loses 3 points for availability!
Giffca(10): Abstain. As obvious as it probably is, not gonna just assume he tears shit up.
-
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 3/10
Wade: 2/10
Geese: 4/10
Gonzales: 6/10 - Needs Lilina support to be any good though.
Bartre(6): 2/10
Garret: 1.5/10
Dorcas: 3.5/10 - Pretty solid on Lyn mode, terrible elsewhere.
Bartre(7): 3.5/10 - Weak start, but not awful.
Dart: 7/10 - Don't hold promotion cost against him much, and once he hits his stride he's a monster.
Hawkeye: 2/10
Geitz: 3/10
Garcia: 4/10 - Wishes he was doubling.
Ross: 6/10 - Easy to raise up due to his Hatchet being awesome, and pretty solid once he catches up. Can work in any class.
Dozla: 2.5/10 - A point or two faster than Garcia, a few points less damaging.
Boyd(9): 8/10 - If he was mounted he'd be a ten, and he's still almost always my number one killer. Good out of the gate, and only picks up steam.
Mordecai(9): 4/10 - Powerful, but FE9 Laguz.
Muarim(9): 5/10 - Gets a point over Mordy for speed.
Largo: 3/10 - Not a total detriment if you use him, I guess?
Giffca(9): 7.5/10 - Well he's pretty awesome on that last one!
Nolan: 7/10 - Immensely useful for DB. Usable past that, and Tarvos is pretty awesome.
Muarim(10): Abs.
Mordecai(10): Abs.
Boyd(10): 6/10 - Nolan without the early useful.
Kyza: 3/10
Skrimir: 8/10 - FE10 Laguz can be awesome when used right, and Skrimir just shreds things.
Caineghis: 8/10 - An utter monster, but that missing availability sucks two points out.
Giffca(10): 7/10 - More powerful than Skrim, but not nearly as available.
-
Dorcas, Bartre(7), Dart, Hawkeye, Geitz: Uh 3/10 or something. I have Hector, I don't care, you guys are all inaccurate and suck and I didn't bother with using any of you for more than a map or so.
Garcia: 5/10. Garcia was fine as a token axeman for weapon triangle threat diversity. Slow in the DL, but he was fast enough to generally double, or at least avoid being doubled himself, for me (good RNG?).
Ross: 5/10. Garcia but with slightly better stats in exchange for annoyance and coddling while training him up. He was the only FE8 character I sent to his death - Garcia said that he'd given up fighting because he had to be a father or something. I merely removed the distraction so that Garcia could better focus himself on the art of war, and better yet swear himself to vengeance against the Bad Guys who somehow were able to sneak up on Ross.
Dozla: 2/10. Not unusable but perhaps the worst character in FE8? Glass jaw is not good here.
Boyd(9): 8.5/10? I feel bad for not giving a 9 but I forget what I gave Ike and Ike is in some ways better than Boyd. Boyd topped my kill list anyway, he 2HKOs basically every random in the game (and doubles so it's really a OHKO) and has decent speed and godlike HP. Awesome. FE9 is also the game of "toss +15 accuracy on all your weapons cheap" so axe users don't face their normal accuracy problems.
Mordecai(9): 3/10? Can be a useful tank but transforming late in the battle is a horrible idea, and getting doubled while in human form is a fast way to die.
Muarim(9): 4/10? Didn't care.
Largo: 3/10 whatever.
Giffca(9): ...didn't use. Seems objectively worse than your other two options, though, due to movement disadvantage, so I can't see him getting that high a score even if he himself is all right.
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10. Alright.
Mallow: 5/10. Alright.
Geno: 7/10. I 'unno.
Bowser: 3/10. Not great.
Toadstool: 7/10
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Dorcas: 4/10
Bartre(7): 3/10
Dart: 5/10
Hawkeye: 5/10
Geitz: ---
Garcia: 3/10
Ross: 6/10
Dozla: 2/10
Boyd(9): 7/10
Mordecai(9): 5/10
Muarim(9): 6/10
Largo: ---
Giffca(9): 5/10
Nolan: 8.5/10
Muarim(10): 4/10
Mordecai(10): 5/10
Boyd(10): 3/10
Kyza: 4/10
Skrimir: 6/10
Caineghis: 8.5/10
Giffca(10): 6/10
-
Yoshi: Not sure if your Dozla got the RNG blessing of the gods or whatever, but normally, Level 4 Dozla (which is generous for that point if anything) is doubled by Valter with 3 points of speed to spare and faces a crit rate in which either hit will kill him. He's one of the worst possible choices there, you should be using a PC who has enough luck to null his crit.
He's better against Caellach (still needs to gain speed to avoid being doubled) but nothing special since his normal advantage against bosses (crits) is gone.
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10. He's kinda like Zero, has generally a bit more ST damage in all situations. However, his gap is less pronounced.
Mallow: 4.5/10. Quite good between when he gets his first weapon and Toadstool starts coming into her own around Chapter 6. He heals and is reasonably durable, has early MT, etc.
Geno: 8/10. Geno Boost, speed, and the best MT.
Bowser: 3.5/10. Like Mallow but with less time to shine. He has a chapter and a half of being very durable and fairly damaging, then falls off into "why use him".
Toadstool: 8.5/10. Group Hug is that good. It's the -reason- lategame SMRPG is that easy. Go look at the stat topic, plenty of later bosses do "lol I MT 2-3HKO you and add sleep/fear" and Toadstool + status immunity is all "yeah whatever". Less impressive in randoms, though a good healing battery at worst.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 5/10. He'd be quite good if not for FE6 axes, reasonable stats and supports.
Wade: 2/10. Hahha. There's always a horrid-growth axeman.
Geese: 3/10. Just why use him.
Gonzales: 4/10. Bleh, I hate him, just the opposite of the type of FE PC I like using (fuck the accuracy) but I can't objectively score him lower.
Bartre(6): 5/10. Solid enough, the Atk is monstrous enough to make up for not doubling and he's reasonably accurate and durable; decent bow rank lets him one-shot wyverns, too.
Garret: 1/10. lulz. Way to take a +30% class crit boost and uniformly fail with it, FE6 berserkers.
Dorcas: 3/10. Decent early. Worst long-term choice ever.
Bartre(7): 3/10. Decent later, worst short-term choice ever. (okay this part isn't true, but...)
Dart: 1/10. Hey guys you COULD promote me or you could sell my promotion item (assuming you use a FAQ and even get it!) and use nothing but Killer/Reaver/Silvers for the rest of the game. Doesn't make my offence look so good, does it? Also his durability/hit blow and I -do- factor in rankings.
Hawkeye: 3/10. He's okay, could use some speed.
Geitz: 4/10. Aw yeah best axeman in the game, has some speed and a bow rank.
Garcia: 3/10. Dorcas + Hero but less good early.
Ross: 4/10. He catches up enough, although the first few chapters are bad. Just... the speed really needs to be better once caught up. Oh well, at least it's better than...
Dozla: 1/10. He starts with Eirika's speed 20 levels higher and 12 chapters later. His hit and durability are bad too. Then he promptly doesn't get better ever.
Boyd(9): 8/10. His speed and durability could both be better, although both are serviceable, and he's a Speedwing away from being gamebest offence by far (and decent without it unless he gets screwed), plus some decent supports.
Mordecai(9): 5.5/10. Rather good for a while, but does fall off.
Muarim(9): 6.5/10. Rather good until endgame where forged Silver makes him look bad.
Largo: 4/10. It's Dozla with good skill and speed! Still needs more defences, but hey.
Giffca(9): Disagree with Snowfire, I think he's probably the best laguz royal? (Much more damage to Ashnard, MORE move just doesn't fly.) Can see the argument for Tibarn though. Still, abstain; not around enough.
Nolan: 8.5/10. I think. He's not quite 9 material, but one of the best in the part of the game that most needs good PCs, then stays good forever, great speed growth and earth-infused durability.
Muarim(10): 3/10. A few good maps then falls off.
Mordecai(10): 3.5/10. I guess he's probably pretty good with a Speedwing, but otherwise, he's a wall in the part of the game that already has good walls and needs them least (open fields) so whatever at that.
Boyd(10): 2.5/10. His speed fails, he'll never double ever if not RNG blessed and his base durability/power are also unimpressive. He's a project character, but one that needs to get RNG luck and is the inferior endgame axeman even so. More projecty than your DB equivalent? That kinda fails.
Kyza: 2/10. Yeah, having used him, he's pretty bad. Not offensively so, but...
Skrimir: 3.5/10. One good map and then kinda sucks since he doesn't double any more ever. 26 speed really? Again, Speedwings would probably go a long way, here... I dunno. But is that really worth it when at endgame you get...
Caineghis: 9/10. He's around enough to matter now. And he's the best while he is. Giving Skrimir a higher score because of 2 maps more availability is something I find baffling.
Giffca(10): 8/10. Not as good as Cain but still damn good.
-
Yoshi: Not sure if your Dozla got the RNG blessing of the gods or whatever, but normally, Level 4 Dozla (which is generous for that point if anything) is doubled by Valter with 3 points of speed to spare and faces a crit rate in which either hit will kill him. He's one of the worst possible choices there, you should be using a PC who has enough luck to null his crit.
He's better against Caellach (still needs to gain speed to avoid being doubled) but nothing special since his normal advantage against bosses (crits) is gone.
...hunh, really? I think my Dozla was about Lv 3-4 there, yeah, and he... doubled Valter, would've killed if he'd not got a crit but managed it first try anyways. He didn't kill Caellach in one turn, but just didn't attack, tanked Caellach's turn and then killed with his own.
Also, changing the score on Giffca. Despite how good he is, didn't really consider the fact that, uhh, he sucks compared to the alternatives. >_>
-
Yoshi: Not sure if your Dozla got the RNG blessing of the gods or whatever, but normally, Level 4 Dozla (which is generous for that point if anything) is doubled by Valter with 3 points of speed to spare and faces a crit rate in which either hit will kill him. He's one of the worst possible choices there, you should be using a PC who has enough luck to null his crit.
He's better against Caellach (still needs to gain speed to avoid being doubled) but nothing special since his normal advantage against bosses (crits) is gone.
...hunh, really? I think my Dozla was about Lv 3-4 there, yeah, and he... doubled Valter, would've killed if he'd not got a crit but managed it first try anyways. He didn't kill Caellach in one turn, but just didn't attack, tanked Caellach's turn and then killed with his own.
Also, changing the score on Giffca. Despite how good he is, didn't really consider the fact that, uhh, he sucks compared to the alternatives. >_>
Reading that through, that, uhh, shouldn't actually be possible. Earliest you can get Dozla is after he's already promoted. If he's doubled with 3 to spare, there is no possible way for him to double Valter. Not in 3 levels. Blessing of the gods would get him to, uhh, barely being doubled. Are you sure you're not remembering someone else, there, Yoshi? >_>;
Also, Meeple: You said "NO" instead of "NOW" when telling people to correct you. Just thought I'd let ya' know.
Anyway, on to rankings.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Dorcas: 5/10 Meh
Bartre(7): 2/10 liability, but, uhh... HP?
Dart: 5/10 Meh
Hawkeye: 5/10 Good fallback option for a while
Geitz: -/10 Didn't use, ever.
Garcia: 4/10 HP~
Ross: 8/10 Decent option for either a Hero or a Warrior. (And Berserkers suck ASS)
Dozla: 2/10 HP. But a Berserker.
Boyd(9): 8/10 Kill kill kill kill~
Mordecai(9): -/10 Didn't use
Muarim(9): -/10 Didn't use
Largo: 5/10 HP~ And can kill
Giffca(9): -/10 Didn't use
Nolan: 5/10 Meh (Will admit that I have a very lackluster memory of him because I promoted him too early)
Muarim(10): 7/10 Solid
Mordecai(10): 7/10 Solid
Boyd(10): 6/10 Meh+
Kyza: -/10 Didn't use
Skrimir: 8/10 Rawr~
Caineghis: -/10 Didn't use
Giffca(10): -/10 Didn't use
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10.
Mallow: 5/10.
Geno: 7/10.
Bowser: 4/10.
Toadstool: 8/10.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 4/10.
Wade: 3/10.
Geese: 3/10.
Gonzales: 2/10. Considering how many hostile recruits are on that map? Yeah, Gonzales falls by the wayside.
Bartre(6): 3/10.
Garret: 2/10. I didn't... get him OR kill him, that I remember. That suggests he's a pain in the butt to recruit, so flush.
Dorcas: 3/10.
Bartre(7): 3/10.
Dart: 8/10. Need to counter some of the hate going around.
Hawkeye: 3/10.
Geitz: 3/10.
Garcia: 3/10.
Ross: 5/10. Needs more hit though.
Dozla: 2/10.
Boyd(9): 5/10.
Mordecai(9): 2/10.
Muarim(9): 2/10.
Largo: 2/10.
Giffca(9): 8/10. The bestest Royal.
Nolan: 6/10. Never reached greatness levels for me. Maybe I underused him.
Muarim(10): 3/10.
Mordecai(10): 2/10.
Boyd(10): 3/10.
Kyza: 2/10.
Skrimir: 3/10.
Caineghis: 9/10. Hax.
Giffca(10): 3/10. Objectively fine but... why mess with a standard Laguz when you can use the Royals? You already have Herons and Ena who should be getting your Laguz Stones so... yeah.
-
On the Dozla thing... Uhh. Wow. Was definitely him. Maybe he was a higher level than I remember, then, but it was definitely him doubling and killing Valter. I remember using him specifically because he was the only character I had who had the HP to survive a Valter turn, even if he critted.
-
He would have to be Level 13 with 100% speed growth to double Valter. (His speed growth is 40%.) This is possible if you powergrinded Dolza or fed him speedwings or something. So this happening isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it would have to be at a much higher level.
-
... ... ...
okay I'm definitely misremembering something. No way I had him anywhere near that high/RNG-blessed. Maybe he wasn't doubling, but I'm pretty certain he wasn't getting doubled, at least. Or, at least, I was certain. =/
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"Please publicize any fuckups I make"
Well, you're still listing FE characters.
Anyway
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 8/10 - You're forced to use him, and he's certainly not a bad addition to the team.
Mallow: 3/10 - He's pretty good when you first get him and then just mediocre later. I never considered using him after getting Bowser, however, which puts a damper on his overall use. I guess he gets some good MT later but by the time he does, Toadstool's caught up to solidify her position in the party, and why the hell would you take Geno out? Score would be higher if you were ever forced to use him after Booster's Pass, or if Toadstool didn't exist to replace Bowser once he becomes useless.
Geno: 8/10 - Pretty good when you first get him, and his buffs alone make him a better choice for teammate number 2 in the endgame. Having the best MT damage and not terrible ST damage doesn't hurt.
Bowser: 4/10 - YES HE IS HIGHER THAN MALLOW. From Booster's Tower until around the sunken ship when Toadstool starts picking up, he's got good ST damage and is tanky. He drops off pretty terribly after that, but is pretty good during a time when
Toadstool: 9/10 - Starts out about as shitty as Bowser is in the endgame due to her lack of durability and nothing being threatening enough to require Group Hug, and then goes on to make herself more useful than Mario due to stat growths and... well, Group Hug.
-
Will get to the rest later...putting away groceries!
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 91/128. I wish you could take him out - I'd like to use Mallow over him, honestly. Unique equips help a bunch...if you get them. Attack Scarf takes a lot of work to get, but it IS awesome.
Mallow: 49/128. If you could replace Mario with him, he'd be better. As is, an ok party member early, the first person I replace with Bowser, then never used again. The ST healing and MT damage would work as great clean-up and support - the guy who can do everything in the party, but doesn't excel anywhere.
Geno: 112/128. Fast, MT damage, Geno Boost is pretty badass. Ends up being pretty awesome.
Bowser: 55/128. He does awesomely in Booster's Tower, and Terrorize is still good at the end of the game. A bit better than Mallow, since he doesn't need the FP as much...kind of? Eh.
Toadstool: 117/128. It's been said.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemen:
Lott:
Wade:
Geese:
Gonzales:
Bartre(6):
Garret:
Dorcas:
Bartre(7):
Dart:
Hawkeye:
Geitz:
Garcia:
Ross:
Dozla:
Boyd(9):
Mordecai(9):
Muarim(9):
Largo:
Giffca(9):
Nolan:
Muarim(10):
Mordecai(10):
Boyd(10):
Kyza:
Skrimir:
Caineghis:
Giffca(10):
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10. He's honestly not awesome, but he does offer the highest ST offensive input in the game and his durability stats are reasonable. He's not -entirely- ST-marred either, but his MT is late and unreliable.
Mallow: 4/10. Earlygame is pretty okay, albeit not awesome. The ST healing is an okay crutch before Toadstool kicks in and the early as buttons MT is quite nice. Later on... eh.
Geno: 8/10. Speed+Geno Boost+solid offense of all types+strong later MT? You have a pretty complete offensive package here, boy.
Bowser: 3/10. Hey guyz I'm awesome for like one chapter and then nobody cares.
Toadstool: 9/10. Mmmmmmyeeeeeeah, she's kinda evil. Group Hug just trivializes bosses badly. The mad part is that you get status-immune Toadstool as soon as like Johnny, and that one also gives you elemental immunity to the big three (god smrpg equipment cheese). She does have durability issues for a while, of course, and against randoms she's no Geno (although Sleepy Time is a fine tool if you're good at the directional spinning). But then, her issues start disappearing as the game goes on and she gets actual offense with the Frying Pan and then everything fails forever unless they have MT OHKO - which they don't. Also, have fun trying to kill your party ever if you have Lazy Shell Toadstool.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemen
I'll leave it out there that I'm generally very unimpressed with FE6/7 Axemen in general, so expect unkind scores.
Lott: 4/10. uuuuh. The growths and supports are cool. Just... argh, FE6 axes. Promotion helps, but by the time he promotes, I just went somewhere else using units that fit my biases better.
Wade: 2/10. uuuuuuuuh fail
Geese: 3/10. whatever.
Gonzales: 3/10. I certainly -can- rate him lower than a 4/10. Fuck that accuracy bigtime. He's a borderline liability in a bad day.
Bartre(6): 3/10. BRAVE AXE HYPE or something? I just -loathe- FE6 axemen with a fiery passion.
Garret: 1/10. Seriously, screw FE6 Axes and FE6 axemen accuracy.
Dorcas: 2/10. 20% SPEED GROWTH AW YEAH.
Bartre(7): 2/10. 35% speed growth+like 3 starting speed = total winner.
Dart: 1/10. I don't factor in rankings! However, I factor in the fact he has a very non-hot start and that his promotion item costs me insane amounts of money I could use to outfit actually cost-efficient units. Go away.
Hawkeye: 2/10. Argh.
Geitz: 2/10. Just why use him ever. FE7 Warriors just don't impress me.
Garcia: 2/10. HAY GUYZ IT'S DORCAS
Ross: 4/10. Man, he starts out like shit and is entirely at the mercy of the RNG gods too! Winning combo. Sadly, he's just about the best Axeman you can get in FE8 besides something like Hero Gerik, and Ranger Gerik is better for my money. I like me some move and range without complete shit weaponry.
Dozla: 1/10. Go away.
-
SMRPG:
Mario: 7 - Good, and I abused his Jump timing a lot. I spent waaaay too much time as a kid mastering the timing that thing, though.
Mallow: 4 - Not great. Below average feels right.
Geno: 8.5 - Pretty great! Would be MVP, but Toadstool exists.
Bowser: 4 - Sadface. He's useable enough thanks to his durability that he ties with Mallow.
Toadstool: 9 - Breakin' the game. Feels like a textbook 9.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemen:
Lott: 5 - Average is the best this group can hope for.
Wade: 3
Geese: 2
Gonzales: 5
Bartre(6): 3
Garret: Abstain
Dorcas: 4 - usable enough in Lyn's chapter.
Bartre(7): 3
Dart: 5
Hawkeye: 2
Geitz: Abstain
Garcia: 5 - I tried an axe-heavy FE8 game once for fun. Garcia outlasted Ross!
Ross: 4
Dozla: 5 - Dozla actually survived to the end of game!
Boyd(9): 8.5 - Gets bows and such, too.
Mordecai(9): 4 - Worked as a wall in the early chapters.
Muarim(9): 3 - Better growths, but he joins too late to bother with him.
Largo: 4 - He worked on the one map I tried him on, but he didn't feel worth using overall.
Giffca(9): 6 - Availability woes, but above average for being damn useful if you get him.
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10. He's solid for most of the game. Never actively bad, but never actively being awesome either. Lazy Shell gives his ST offense a nice oomph.
Mallow: 5/10. Pretty damn good when he joins since Thunderbolt MT OHKOs lame scrubs. It remains the most cost efficient MT for a while to boot. HP Rain is kinda meh though, since SMRPG items are just so lolwhat broken and the ST healing is never that awesome. Never great at physical or ST damage, but gains enough MT later to sorta worth merit using.
Geno: 9/10. Best skill set in the game? Possibly. The Speed + Geno Boost means effectively that someone is always at 50% greater defense and offense before the enemy moves. Has great MT and usable ST physicals/spells with Whirl being in there to take care of some big annoying randoms. Never really lags either.
Bowser: 3.5/10. Uh...he's awesome before Land's End. Talk about a character with good bases but crappy growths. Everything Bowser has just doesn't grow well. His best armor for defense is the WORK PANTS before Chapter 7 :|. Needless to say, this guts him pretty bad. Terrorize is neat though and that seems to be the only way he would still make rounds in the party later.
Toadstool: 8.5/10. Also very awesome and has the other best skill set in the game. Group Hug is of course, lolwhat. Cheap MT cost efficient healing. It is somewhat replacable with items and her offense doesn't improve till late. In fact, in the early going, she's not in the party because of the early on lag and the healing is not as worthwhile. But still...yeah.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 5/10. FE6 Axes. If you wanted an axeman, he was it. Decent and servicable with nice enough growths and supports.
Wade: 2/10. Significantly worse than Lott.
Geese: 3/10. Uh...stains his hands with your blood? I dunno. Was there.
Gonzales: 4/10. Mixed big. I should note, Gonzales on the other route that starts at level 11 with the same bases gets lower. But otherwise, he's pretty much a loose cannon. You're effectively gambling almost every hit, but you rarely need that level of overkill damage.
Bartre(6): 4/10. Being one of the better prepromos counts for something!
Garret: 1/10. Hey, remember that time when we though crit went before hit, and there was a lot of Gonzales hype but never really any Garret hype? That should tell you how good he is especially AFTER we found out that hit does indeed go before crit.
Dorcas: 3/10. Has uses in Lyn mode. Servicable enough early on for Eliwood/Hector mode and has HUEG Con for chain rescuing at least.
Bartre(7): 3/10. Better long term than Dorcas. But starting that speed is just...>_<.
Dart: 3/10. Hey, noticing a trend? Yeah. Dart's pretty underwhelming even without rankings considering how the Ocean Seal is practically FAQ bait and it costs you an effective 25000 at least. You might as throw that 25000 into Silvers/Reavers and make Guy/Raven/Hector/Cavalier more effective. Still, I don't consider him outright useless here since giving an extra 25000 into funds still doesn't save some of the worst FE7 had to offer (HI KARLA). Bases could use some work, although part of it is also that he starts with a Steel Axe.
Hawkeye: 3/10. Gets an extra point for being able to tank a Paul critical hit on Normal mode if you absolutely needed that buffer.
Geitz: 5/10. Is Eph. Best axeman in the game and saves resources? Hurray!
Garcia: 2/10. Dorcas, but with effectively even less early shine.
Ross: 4/10. Best trainee if you want to use one, but he's very much left to the mercy of the RNG. Not exactly fit for my tastes when you have better choices.
Dozla: 1/10. LULZ.
Boyd(9): 8/10. I want to rate him higher, but losing mounted means effectively he's probably worse than Oscar. Although he's very awesome regardless. HP makes up somewhat for the mediocre defenses, but his offense is just nuts.
Mordecai(9): 4.5/10. He's pretty solid when he joins. But his transform gauge just makes me go ajslkjdsjasd. Several turns of doing nothing is just -_ - when first turns can make a pretty big difference.
Muarim(9): 6/10. Can somewhat keep up with most of the regular team until towards the end.
Largo: 3/10. Filler if you need to, but less good than other filler you can use.
Giffca(9): Uh..weird. Best of the three royals you can summon. But by the time he joins, half the map is under control. So he shows off for like 3 turns or something. 5/10 or something. I dunno.
Nolan: 8.5/10. Pretty damn close to a 9, but maybe not quite. Earth affinity + good growths in needed areas and is effectively one of the best DB units. Durability could use a boost, but he's damn solid.
Muarim(10): 3/10. Exists for like 2? 3 chapters? And then basically dies since by the time he rejoins...lol.
Mordecai(10): 4/10. Pretty awesome for parts 2-2 and 2-E. Might be a lesser score since you always have better choices come the GM maps. But I have nothing but good memories of his time rocking face in 2-2 and 2-E. So 4 it is.
Boyd(10): 3.5/10. Uh...huge downgrade from his FE9 form. Boyd basically starts off rocky. He gets a few chapters where you can see if the RNG gods decide to bless him (most noticably in speed). If they do, he's golden since he can then provide some meaningful offense and can try to circumvent the durability by finding a defense/avoid boosting partner. If they don't...well, he's effective got the lowest offense and lowest durability in the GM group sans Rhys. That is NOT a good thing.
Kyza: 2/10. Pretty bad but hey at least some semblance of defense and starting speed.
Skrimir: 3/10. Awesome in 4-P which is lolz because lolzHorseslayer and lolzNaesala. So basically he's awesome for like one chapter where it doesn't matter. And then in 4-3, Desert gives him some added use since he can outkite his enemies. But yeah. 26 Speed is just not good enough past that.
Caineghis: 9/10. RNG proof insurance to finish the game. He's that good. Also, Earth affinity for those last minute avoid boosts. His only thing is lowish Res, which you can circumvent around.
Giffca(10): 8/10. Not as good as Cain obviously. The big question is whether or not you want to sacrifice a Laguz gem to use him versus using it on a Heron. Well there are a few ways of looking at it. One is that you can get 2 Laguz Gems, use them both, because why not. And two is that the store has Laguz stone available for sale. And at this point in the game, stocking up on 4-5 of these and then giving them to him along with Olivi Grass is certainly reasonable. He's great offensive insurance to have around.
-
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: Abstain
Wade: Abstain
Geese: 5/10
Gonzales: 4/10
Bartre(6): Abstain
Garret: Abstain
Dorcas: 5/10
Bartre(7): 6/10
Dart: 6/10
Hawkeye: 7/10
Geitz: 7/10
Garcia: 6/10
Ross: 6/10
Dozla: 2/10
Boyd(9): 8/10
Mordecai(9): 6/10
Muarim(9): 6/10
Largo: Abstain
Giffca(9): 5/10
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 7/10. Solid all arounder, not much else.
Mallow: 4/10. Good MT damage early on, then...stops really contributing much at all.
Geno: 8/10. Yeah, good MT and ST damage with a buff move. I must smack the Speed hype though; very easy to make other characters fast enough to get past enemies, and Speed in this game is such a meaningless factor.
Bowser: 6/10. Doesn't really get THAT bad until later.
Toadstool: 8/10. Team Healer.
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemen oh my!
Lott: 3/10. Could have been good, but FE6 Axes kill him.
Wade: 2/10. See Lott, without the "Could have been good"
Geese: 4/10. Lott+.
Gonzales: 4.5/10. Can actually do stuff once promoted, but Promoting him isn't easy.
Bartre(6): 5/10. Being a Warrior out of the gate means he can use Bows, working away the "FE6 Axes suck" thing to some degree and he's still promoted with not total garbage stats.
Garret: 2/10. Prepromo Gonzales without any of what makes Gonzales good, whoo!
Dorcas: 3/10. Only axe user in Lyn mode has to count for something. Otherwise? *Punt*
Bartre(7): 4/10. He's good once promoted I feel, but getting him promoted isn't easy and there are so many other options around.
Dart: 4/10. Can be good but pain in the ass to raise and requires using a not trivially easy item to promote.
Hawkeye: 4/10. Good in usual Prepromo ways, not completely horrible.
Geitz: 5/10. Eh, yeah, good for filling gaps, but not much else, so guess that makes him the best Axeman of this game.
Garcia: 2/10. Dorcas in a game with better competition.
Ross: 5/10. Decent when raised up, and being available early means raising him is actually practical unlike the other two, especially since the Hatchet is a good starting weapon. He still has issues holding him back, and he's merely "Decent" which isn't good enough for a project like this.
Dozla: 1/10. Ahahah no.
Boyd(9): 8/10. THIS is what Fighters wanted to be. Boyd's got speed (or at least, enough of it to not embarrass himself), strength, HP, and in a game where Axes DON'T TOTALLY SUCK. Puts him leagues ahead of the other Fighters/warriors as a result.
Mordecai(9): 3/10. Early tank with restricted offense, not much else.
Muarim(9): 4/10. Mordecai+; joins after Demi Band so easier to make use of him. True, you can give it to Mordecai, but Muarim also starts at a higher level, so better with less effort.
Largo: 5/10. Good for filling up slots and not horrible, but nothing special either, despite a unique class as a PC.
Giffca(9): 7/10. Overpowered and kicks ass...for one map. He's like Athos except can't heal or counter Range 2 attacks, so I can only give him so much credit.
Nolan: 8/10. I'm not totally sold on his AWESOMENESS, but I'll give him extra points for being a competent PC in a team that really needs someone like him, so yeah, he still gets a high rating.
Muarim(10): 3/10. Rules in Part 1, sucks in Part 4 due to lack of use, though isn't completely worthless there at least.
Mordecai(10): 7/10. Got a fair amount of use out of his tanking; offense could stand to be better though Speed Wings help offset that. Felt practically unkillable against enemy hordes, and unlike Generals, has an actual Movement stat.
Boyd(10): 4/10. Ouch! Loss of Speed really hurts his worth here, as does competing with a whole bunch of more competent good Axemen.
Kyza: 3/10. Tiger without specializing in what makes Tigers good! I guess that's better than a Cat doing the same, but still pointless.
Skrimir: 7/10. Mordecai+, but around for not as long; SKrimir hits hard as hell and has actual speed to double things at first, and Lion Transformation rates are awesome if you don't mind blowing Olivi Grass. He's also quite handy shifted on the Desert. Less availability hurts him relative to Mordecai.
Caineghis: 9/10. Kicks ass in just about every way, shape or form...except availability, he's a bit lacking there! That's why he's only a 9 though. He's like the FE9 Laguz Royals, except there's enough maps to justify him, and he stands out DESPITE the even FIERCER Competition.
Giffca(10): 8/10. Caineghis-; he's still completely brutal! The main difference is Giffca requires stuff like Olivi Grass, Laguz Gems/Stones, etc. to maintain, so its either "use rare items!" to get mileage out of him or "Waste one turn occasionally to restore gauge", which is enough to dock him a full point compared to Cain.
-
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 7/10. Solid all arounder, not much else.
Mallow: 4/10. Good MT damage early on, then...stops really contributing much at all.
Geno: 8/10. Yeah, good MT and ST damage with a buff move. I must smack the Speed hype though; very easy to make other characters fast enough to get past enemies, and Speed in this game is such a meaningless factor.
Bowser: 6/10. Doesn't really get THAT bad until later.
Toadstool: 8/10. Team Healer.
Keeping Meeple commentary below since it's accurate, but adjusting FE7 scores down since I don't like FE7 axemen. >_>
Dorcas: 1.5/10. Only axe user in Lyn mode has to count for something. Otherwise? *Punt*
Bartre(7): 2/10. He's good once promoted I feel, but getting him promoted isn't easy and there are so many other options around.
Dart: 3/10. Can be good but pain in the ass to raise and requires using a not trivially easy item to promote.
Hawkeye: 4/10. Good in usual Prepromo ways, not completely horrible.
Geitz: 4.5/10. Eh, yeah, good for filling gaps, but not much else, so guess that makes him the best Axeman of this game.
Garcia: 2/10. Dorcas in a game with better competition.
Ross: 5/10. Decent when raised up, and being available early means raising him is actually practical unlike the other two, especially since the Hatchet is a good starting weapon. He still has issues holding him back, and he's merely "Decent" which isn't good enough for a project like this.
Dozla: 1/10. Ahahah no.
-
Mario: 6/10
Mallow: 3/10
Geno: 8/10
Bowser: 3/10
Toadstool: 8/10
-
Nolan: 9/10 - Best DB character.
Muarim(10): 1/10 - Not even a good wall.
Mordecai(10): 2/10 - Isn't Muarim
Boyd(10): 3/10 - Outclassed by Nolan and the worst merc.
Kyza: 2/10 - He is around for a while so if for some strange reason you decide to use him you'll get some milage out of him.
Skrimir: 5/10 - Suffers from there being better options and the maps he destroys being easy anyway.
Caineghis: 8/10 - Lucky that he gets uses in the hardest chapter. 8 is as much as I'll give someone around for such a short time.
Giffca(10): 8/10 - Items aren't that rare folks. The guy is near enough a clone of Caineghis so he gets the same score.
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Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6.38
Mallow: 4.25
Geno: 7.96
Bowser: 4.25
Princess Toadstool: 8.38
Fire Emblem Lions, Tigers and Axemen:
Lott: 4.06
Wade: 2.25
Geese: 3.39
Gonzales: 3.83
Bartre(6): 3.38
Garret: 1.36
Dorcas: 3.11
Bartre(7): 3.04
Dart: 4.04
Hawkeye: 3.36
Geitz: 3.59
Garcia: 3.57
Ross: 4.79
Dozla: 2.10
Boyd(9): 7.63
Mordecai(9): 4.3
Muarim(9): 4.82
Largo: 3.40
Giffca(9): 6.17
Nolan: 7.65
Muarim(10): 3.69
Mordecai(10): 4.56
Boyd(10): 4.28
Kyza: 2.50
Skrimir: 5.75
Caineghis: 8.39
Giffca(10): 6.94
Best Rating of this Session: Caineghis w/ 8.39
Worst Rating of this Session: Garret w/ 1.36
MOVING ON!
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre:
Tear Grants:
Jade Curtis:
Guy Cecil:
Anise Tatlin:
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear
Asch:
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck:
Rutger:
Oujay:
Fir:
Echidna:
Karel(6):
Guy:
Raven:
Karel(7):
Harken:
Karla:
Joshua:
Gerik:
Marisa:
Mia(9):
Zihark(9):
Stefan(9):
Lucia(9):
Naesala(9):
Edward:
Zihark(10):
Vika:
Nealuchi:
Lucia(10):
Mia(10):
Naesala(10):
Stefan(10):
And yes, I'm aware we have 2 Guys in this session; that wasn't intended, and I'm happy one of them has a last name! Also, I swear to god that this "Ravens" wasn't intended the same time as we were rating the character NAMED Raven. HONEST!!!
-
MOVING ON!
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke Von Fabre: 5/10. Tales swordsman can only be so bad. One of the appreciable choices for main character besides lolsnipesnipe, but not really that impressive. Better than Guy in the earlygame, worse later, but the margin by how much he gets worse later is noticeably steeper than his edge early.
Tear Grants: 7.5/10. The better -healer- of your healing pair. In Tales, these are always good, and Tear even can back up your frontline offense with magic damage. It's not great, but damage isn't what you use TotA magic for.
Jade Curtis: 3.5/10. While I used him for the whole game for the sake of having less AI fuckups in terms of charging into a fray (and well, despite all his many flaws as a characters, he has a cool VA or something), he's... not impressive. Magic ties up things rather well when it goes off, but TotA casting times are egregiously slow. If you -really- want magical damage, honestly, Tear works as a solid backup.
Guy Cecil: 6.5/10. Later on, I could pull off some insane combo strings and a braindead semi-infinite with him, which made him a spamlock machine, and I like the speed. On the other hand, I doubt I can objectively rate him at even a 7. The lacking early game is a real problem, and that doesn't go away so easily. Also, I could see swapping this score with the one I gave Luke depending on how people fly.
Anise Tatlin: 3.5/10. She just kinda sucks. Slow, awkward combos, her magic is rather unremarkable (on top of having the typical TotA magic issues) and she doesn't have a damage edge to compensate for the poor mobility/comboability.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 8/10. The better -fighter- of the healing pair. The main difference, though? Natalia is probably the best character for effective durability in the game: her attacks are fast and safe, her defensive stats are strong, she's also a fast runner (good for abusing the hell out of how enemies fail against Free Run) and her healing is quite adequate (ST focus, but stronger for amount healed than Tear's). Giving her a speed/defense focus made her quite difficult to kill, and that's pretty desirable on a healer. Being a good fighter doesn't hurt. Probably objective MVP.
Asch: DNR. Eeeew, disposable temp that sticks around for no time.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 6/10. Workable. Pretty awesome early, but tapers off later. Hardly bad if you dedicate yourself to him, though, and he's early too.
Rutger: 8/10. I find FE6 Swordmasters very strong. Rutger is the first you get, and he even gets a Clarine support (I mean, the support isn't good offensively, but defensively, it's fine. Rutger's affinity is pretty sad for offensive supports -anyway-). And swords are at the top of their game in FE6 anyway. Besides FE4.
Oujay: 6/10. Good affinity and has good growths, but the beginning is shaky. Feels like he ends up roughly similar in worth to Dieck.
Fir: 8.5/10. Fir's excellent. Rutger trading the better concrete durability and Strength for an affinity tailor-made for Swordmasters and better evade by a notable margin. Also has quite high stats for her starting level and starts at a level where she can get tons of easy kills, so raising her isn't a problem.
Echidna: 5/10? I guess. I remember seeing her endgame stats and realizing they kinda work if you're in a pickle for Heroes. She's an acceptable crutch.
Karel(6): 5/10. Serves as a solid crutch if you get bad Swordmasters, but there's better.
Guy: 7/10. Awesome affinity for a Swordmaster, good supports. Otherwise, a typical package for a SD, but I find them generally solid. Only one weapon type hurts, but you could do worse than FE7 Swords.
Raven: 8.5/10. Awesome starting stats, a few quite solid supports and good growths. Very good offensive powerhouse, only held back by the meh affinity (Ice is so not an offensive element) and not being really awesome defensively.
Karel(7): 3/10. GREAT STRENGTH AND SKILL
Harken: 5/10. Uhhhh gives you a Bravesword and isn't trash statwise. Feels good enough for a 5.
Karla: 0/10. Karla is one of the worst PCs ever. Jesus Christ, the usability is nearly Sophia-level and even -getting- her is a complete pain in the ass.
Joshua: 6.5/10. Same package as Guy in a vacuum with better Strength, but Wind isn't quite as excellent for a Swordmaster as Fire is, and Joshua faces stronger competition in FE8. Still solid, and the supports are decent.
Gerik: 7/10. He's rather solid, but isn't a gamebreaker. Still, I find the Ranger option quite awesome to have, which makes me give an extra half-point for his troubles.
Marisa: 4/10. The stat package looks quite solid, but she's gotten past the midgame and at a low level (still has very good stats for her level, but it's still kind of a pain). Not to mention Ice is one of the worst affinities for a Swordmaster to have. Rutger got away with Dark by being early, in a game where Swordmasters had more crit and having a far weaker cast to thin the competition out. Marisa... no such luck.
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Luke Von Fabre: 5/10. Tales swordsman can only be so bad. One of the appreciable choices for main character besides lolsnipesnipe, but not really that impressive. Better than Guy in the earlygame, worse later, but the margin by how much he gets worse later is noticeably steeper than his edge early.
Tear Grants: 7.5/10. The better -healer- of your healing pair. In Tales, these are always good, and Tear even can back up your frontline offense with magic damage. It's not great, but damage isn't what you use TotA magic for.
Jade Curtis: 3.5/10. While I used him for the whole game for the sake of having less AI fuckups in terms of charging into a fray (and well, despite all his many flaws as a characters, he has a cool VA or something), he's... not impressive. Magic ties up things rather well when it goes off, but TotA casting times are egregiously slow. If you -really- want magical damage, honestly, Tear works as a solid backup.
Guy Cecil: 6.5/10. Later on, I could pull off some insane combo strings and a braindead semi-infinite with him, which made him a spamlock machine, and I like the speed. On the other hand, I doubt I can objectively rate him at even a 7. The lacking early game is a real problem, and that doesn't go away so easily. Also, I could see swapping this score with the one I gave Luke depending on how people fly.
Anise Tatlin: 3.5/10. She just kinda sucks. Slow, awkward combos, her magic is rather unremarkable (on top of having the typical TotA magic issues) and she doesn't have a damage edge to compensate for the poor mobility/comboability.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 8/10. The better -fighter- of the healing pair. The main difference, though? Natalia is probably the best character for effective durability in the game: her attacks are fast and safe, her defensive stats are strong, she's also a fast runner (good for abusing the hell out of how enemies fail against Free Run) and her healing is quite adequate (ST focus, but stronger for amount healed than Tear's). Giving her a speed/defense focus made her quite difficult to kill, and that's pretty desirable on a healer. Being a good fighter doesn't hurt. Probably objective MVP.
Asch: DNR. Eeeew, disposable temp that sticks around for no time.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 7/10. Some people gush over Dieck and I've never fully understood why. I guess supports give him some durability but nobody should have to rely on Lott being played, and otherwise his stats are just kinda average. He does have a good start, though, so giving him points for that.
Rutger: 8.5/10. Just dominates from the getgo, and thanks to speed growth and a 30% crit rate (+ Wo Dao + crit/avo supports = ...) he keeps it up, unlike Dieck. Wish he had 2 range and more move, but otherwise, yowza.
Oujay: 5/10. Shaky start, never develops into anything amazing, but serviceable.
Fir: 8/10. Rutger who possibly gets... even better? Fire is just the best affinity for a SM period. Worse start, but honestly she does pretty well even at Level 1 since she joins in axe city.
Echidna: 7/10. One of the game's best axemen. Great skill so she can hit, great speed so she can double even with the weight hit. Other stats could be better but the durability is propped up nicely by Lalum.
Karel(6): 6/10. I dunno. His stats are great, but lacking supports he feels a pretty questionable choice for the final level. Still, hardly bad.
Guy: 7/10. Isn't as good as the FE6 SMs, but still gets great avoid and the Matt support keeps his attack respectable.
Raven: 9/10. Best character in FE7. 13 speed + 8 strength is possibly party-best offence (outside Marcus) when he joins. And he is NOTABLY UNDERLEVELLED. So hi there, I heard you liked people who gain levels quickly with 55% strength growth to make that offence game-best, period. Also solid supports (ice is a great affinity for him since his power rules anyway) and axes at promotion negate his only weakness. Yeah.
Karel(7): 3.5/10. Eh. Minus points because you lose Harken, maybe? I dunno, he's not great anyway.
Harken: 7/10. By all rights should be the best prepromo (but isn't because Pent rules), very solid stats and weapon ranks everywhere. Would be godly if not for needing to build up supports.
Karla: 1/10. lulz
Joshua: 7/10. Better out of the gate than Guy, but worse as the game goes on due to better competition. It balances.
Gerik: 6.5/10. Doesn't feel very useful on Eph route, but solid enough on Eirika's. Suffers a bit from being crowded out by better swordsmen but the stats are certainly good.
Marisa: 4/10. Eh. Awesome lategame avoid tank, but a pain to get started and never has offence.
Mia(9): 4/10. FE9 swordmasters aren't very good. Less HP than their predecessors, and FE9 swords suck, and anyone with a Knight Ward matches a SM for speed anyway.
Zihark(9): 5/10. Zihark's a bit better due to that earth affinity nonsense I guess.
Stefan(9): 6.5/10. Stefan on the other hand is rather good because his stats just rule midgame, and he always smashes the other SMs in power, their weak stat.
Lucia(9): 1/10. Karla mark 2. Technically she's not quite as bad, but I don't think the difference is worth even half a point.
Naesala(9): 5/10. Meh.
Edward: 3/10. Hi guys, 5 def range 1 in the DB this works right?
Zihark(10): 7.5/10. Pretty solid, he can actually dodge some with his earth supports and starts pretty powerful. Too bad the concrete durability still blows and no authority stars means this always matters.
Vika: 3/10. Hi guys I am absolutely essential for one map, decent for two more, then terrible. Same score as Muarim works.
Nealuchi: 3.5/10. Workable filler kinda.
Lucia(10): 3.5/10. One map of being awesome, then... well, not as bad as Muarim/Tormod/Vika in part 4 at least.
Mia(10): 8/10. Very solid, her speed actually matters and she gets much better power this time out.
Naesala(10): 8/10. The worst laguz royal by almost any metric. Oh noes!
Stefan(10): 6/10. Serviceable asskicker in endgame, the best time to be a SM.
-
Usual disclaimer of not voting on FE6-7. Can't vote on TotA either, and not voting any of the FE8ers, so cutting those. Take all as Abstain. ;o
Mia(9): 4/10. I know she can be good, but seriously? She's way too frail and doesn't have the amazing evasion early on, and takes too much nursing to get to being good, and even then can still be easily screwed over by one attack.
Zihark(9): 8/10. Here, on the other hand, we have someone who joins with the awesome evasion and just gets better from there. Helps that his strength is higher than Mia's and so he's better at tearing shit apart.
Stefan(9): Abstain. Still never got him, oddly enough!
Lucia(9): 5/10. Not amazing, but usable (barely).
Naesala(9): 7/10. Vortex is fun, and the speed helps a lot. Loses 3 points for being on one stage only.
Edward: 4/10. Hahaha DB. Yeah, this guy kinda sucks, doesn't he?
Zihark(10): 5/10. Ouch, that's a nerf you took there, Zihark. That, or I got RNG-screwed, 'cause you did fuck-all for me in 10.
Vika: 6/10. Uhh. Like Lucia9, barely usable, but gains a point because DAWN BRIGADE.
Nealuchi: 5/10. As above. (Screw Meeple hype! I've never seen his worth. >.>)
Lucia(10): Abstain. Reaaally don't remember her at all, tbh.
Mia(10): Abstain here as well.
Naesala(10): 9/10. Yesssss. Tears the enemy apart completely and has much better availability this time round. <3
Stefan(10):
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Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 6/10. Servicable. Did the job, did it well.
Tear Grants: 8/10. Yeah, good healer, good backup offense, doesn't do alot of dieing, she's cast MVP for me.
Jade Curtis: 5/10. The other party standard, along with Tear. Not great, but does his job well enough. Average works.
Guy Cecil: 6/10. Interchanable with Luke. Guy's faster, Luke takes hits better. Roughly equivilant power. I alternated dungeons between the two, never felt one was notably better then the other.
Anise Tatlin: 3/10. Slooooooow. Decent enough on AI, grew frustrated in one fight of trying to actually use her.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 5/10. Never got the hang of controling Nat, and she's only decent on AI. So it goes.
Asch: DNR. Barely exists.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 7/10. Has the potential to be great, but can very easily get RNG screwed as well. Extra point for being good enough at base to get the job done early when you need it the most.
Rutger: 9/10. Elf covers this perfectly. I don't do .5 ratings, so rounding up feels more accurate then rounding down here. Rutger kills shit dead.
Oujay: 5/10. See Dieck, only instead of being strong early, he joins later and is underleveled.
Fir: 8/10. Pretty much Rutger's equal, only joins later enough to merit a point difference. Still fantastic.
Echidna: 6/10. Excellent for a prepromo. Not great, but definately usable and possibly a lifesaver if you've taken some losses by the time she joins.
Karel(6): 6/10. Good emergency character if you've taken some bad losses. Lacks support, but still only so bad an FE6 swordmaster can be here.
Guy: 7/10. Trying not to let random fanboyism influance my score here.
Raven: 9/10. Yeah, one of the best, if not flat out the best character in the game.
Karel(7): 4/10. Eh, he's not bad. Not great, but not bad.
Harken: 7/10. Quite good, yes. Also, free Brave Sword is always a plus.
Karla: 1/10. Uh, the entire point comes from the free Wo Dao for Guy or Lyn(or Karel I suppose...)
Joshua: 7/10. Same score as Guy works.
Gerik: 9/10. Call me a Gerik fanboy, but he's always one of my stronger units in FE8. Great as a Hero(best Axe user in the game, IMO) or a Ranger.
Marisa: 5/10. Good at what she does, but not incredibly impressive. Average works.
Mia(9): 5/10. Vantage is cool.
Zihark(9): 6/10. But I prefer Adept. Also, Earth affinity.
Stefan(9): 5/10. Better then Zihark midgame, feels worse endgame. IIRC Soren is his *only* support option, which is something I honestly don't like. So that costs him a point for me.
Lucia(9): 2/10. Um, just plain bad.
Naesala(9): 7/10. Kicks ass on the last map, is only usable on the last map.
Edward: 3/10. I've tried to use him. It just didn't turn out to be even remotely worth the effort.
Zihark(10): 8/10. Definately good, gets a point from being around to help the DB out in part 1.
Vika: 3/10. Sure.
Nealuchi: 3/10. Eh, he's got use in chapter 2 at least.
Lucia(10): 4/10. Not sure how to feel about her, to be honest. Better then Edward at least, so I'll give her a 4 and stop thinking.
Mia(10): 8/10. A bit better then Zihark I feel, but her parts don't need her as badly. Same score works.
Naesala(10): 9/10. Yeah, it's an FE10 Laguz Royal.
Stefan(10): 5/10. Not bad, but spends too much time not existing. And when he does join, there's just too much competition. Still, he brings the Vague Katti and is certainly usable, so average works.
-
TotA:
Luke 5/10. Felt utterly average.
Tear 7/10. Solid healer/mage.
Jade: 3/10. TotA mage. No.
Guy 8/10. Game's best fighter, has a ton of combos (Including some nice anti air stuff) and can heal. My favorite tales character to control
Anise: 2/10. No.
Natalia: 7.5/10. Buffs plus range plus healing. No arguments there.
-
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: Generally solid, and the bases are pretty good. 6/10
Rutger: FE6 SMs were pretty good yeah. 6/10
Oujay: Eh. Doesn't start out that great, doesn't end up that great. 4.5/10
Fir: Eh, the start is just too hard to ignore. 5.5/10
Echidna: Serviceable second-stringer, yeah. 4/10
Karel(6): It's been said. 4/10
Guy: Faces stiffer competition than the FE6 SM crowd and I'm not hugely impressed with his support options, but is otherwise decent. 5/10
Raven: Yeah, he's great. 7.5/10
Karel(7): Useable. 2.5/10
Harken: 2nd best prepromo? I'll buy it. 5.5/10
Karla: lolkarla. 0/10
Joshua: Sure, same score as Guy works. 5/10
Gerik: Pretty solid throughout. 5.5/10
Marisa: Meh, useable, but there's little point in it by the time she joins. 2.5/10
-
Edward: 8/10 - If you get beyond the bad hp and def at the start he actually is a very decent swordsman. Getting a overpowered weapon (For that point and without forging) helps.
Zihark(10): 8/10 - The reason why many don't use Edward. I used both.....
Vika: 1.5/10 - Worthless but without her you can't pull one of the villagers to safety so a half point for that.
Nealuchi: 3/10 - Useful on exactly one map.
Lucia(10): 1/10 - No idea why you're all rating her over Edward. Lucia steals Xp in chapter 2 and when she makes a return she is so underleveled she has laughable stats. Unless you have some fetish for Blue hair (That Mia provides anyway) there is no reason to use her whatsoever.
Mia(10): 7/10 - Lower score for coming after Edward and Zihark.
Naesala(10): 8.5/10 - The worst Royal yet still kicks ass.
Stefan(10): 6/10 - +1 for the sword but is late and the swordmaste trio exist.
-
Blah blah blah, Unknown bullshit.
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke Von Fabre: 1/10 Worthless
Tear Grants: 8/10 Heals and magic.
Jade Curtis: 7/10 Only way to make early game sane.
Guy Cecil: 10/10 lol at trying this without him.
Anise Tatlin: 7/10 Additional caster that never runs out of resources.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 1/10 Also worthless.
Asch: 0/10 No.
-
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke Von Fabre: (4/A) 0100/1010
Tear Grants: (7/A) 0111/1010
Jade Curtis: (4/A) 0100/1010
Guy Cecil: (5/A) 0101/1010
Anise Tatlin: (2/A) 0010/1010
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: (9.5/A) 1001.1/1010
Asch: (0/A) 0000/1010
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck:
Rutger:
Oujay:
Fir:
Echidna:
Karel(6):
Guy: (5/A) 0101/1010
Raven: (8/A) 1000/1010
Karel(7): (2/A) 0010/1010
Harken: (5/A) 0101/1010
Karla:
Joshua: (5/A) 0101/1010
Gerik: (5.5/A) 0101.1/1010
Marisa: (7/A) 0111/1010
Mia(9): (6.5/A) 0110.1/1010
Zihark(9) (6/A): 0110/1010
Stefan(9) (6/A): 0110/1010
Lucia(9): (1/A) 0001/1010
Naesala(9): (6.5/A) 0110.1/1010
Edward: (5.5/A) 0101.1/1010
Zihark(10): (7/A) 0111/1010
Vika: (6/A) 0110/1010
Nealuchi: (5.5/A) 0101.1/1010
Lucia(10): (3/A) 0011/1010
Mia(10): (9/A) 1001/1010
Naesala(10): (8.5/A) 1000.1/1010
Stefan(10): (5/A) 0101/1010
am i doin it rite
-
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck:
Rutger:
Oujay:
Fir:
Echidna:
Karel(6):
am i doin it rite
No, Tal, you're supposed to take out whole games if you don't know them, remember?
-
Luke Von Fabre: 700/1000 - This cast is so close together. Anyway, Luke's big advantage is the FoF building on his artes. He ends up playing well for anyone controlling him, or even ok on AI alone. Relatively average, but good.
Tear Grants: 750/1000 - Healing and magic damage back-up is nice, especially on harder difficulties where magic is the only sane way to deal good damage. Physical techs aren't...horrid, but could be better. FoF building is excellent. Better on AI than human, though.
Jade Curtis: 750/1000 - Magic damage for harder difficulties, but he also has a good physical tech in Thunder Lance that builds a good FoF. He can also make every FoF except Darkness, and this is worth a lot more than you'd think at first glance. Energy Blast is also a fun spammable attack. About on par with Tear.
Guy Cecil: 800/1000 - Has fewer FoF building than Luke, but the speed and the one he does have (Severing Wind) is great as crowd control and as a chain. The durability difference doesn't matter as much in-game.
Anise Tatlin: 700/1000 - She's a bit unwieldy, but...her techs are good for AoE (like Severing Wind above), and she can make Dark and Light FoF. She takes hits...ok. She's harder to use than the others, but is the ideal back-up for harder difficulties and magic damage. Probably LVP? It's hard to say.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 900/1000 - Solos the world. Lacks making her own FoF, but...this is backed up by having excellent ones once supported properly. Healing doesn't feel too practical, but it's there.
Asch: 600/1000 - Uh...replaces Luke while you have him. Can make FoF. Sucks balls the second time, except for novelty factor.
Dieck: Who?
Rutger: Seriously, stop making up FE6 characters, Meeple
Oujay: Yeah...
Fir: 945/999 - Yeah, awesome. Unlike Wendy doesn't have a unique weapon outside of the Wo Dao, but the speed, always capping STR and DEF work wonders. Is a little frail to magic, but otherwise is just about perfect.
Echidna: What?
Karel(6): Potato?
Guy: V/X - Eh...I don't know. He always ends up being ok, but...his STR sucks, and he takes hits badly, and isn't as evasive as Lyndis. Lyndis is also required >_> He's ok, at worse.
Raven: IX/X - Ends up being cool. Good weapon options, good stats...yeah. Never had major issues with him ever.
Karel(7): V/X - Like Guy, comes with a Wo Dao...eh.
Harken: VI/X - Points for a Brave Blade. Isn't bad either!
Karla: II/X - Is barely available, but comes with a Wo Dao!? And..uh...might replace Guy/Karel if they sucked? Maybe?
Joshua: 312000/525600 Seasons of Love - Better than Guy...but not amazing. At least he has offense, but his durability feels a bit worse overall. Decent option at worse, though I think he's harder to recruit overall.
Gerik: 485000/525600 Seasons of Love - Best axe-user in FE8 by far. Fast, excellent durability, excellent STR...yeah. Nothing about him is bad. Hero Gerik for the win.
Marisa: 505000/525600 Seasons of Love - Best swordmaster by far. Has like everything Gerik has, but better on the RES and SPD and LUK...a little worse on the STR, but...yeah. Also has the option of Assassin which isn't awful. Shamshir is also a decent weapon.
Mia(9): 0.91/1 - Owns the world of swordmasters, and Vantage is nice.
Zihark(9): 0.55/1 - Is...ok. Adept is...ok. Feels like a weaker Mia, and doesn't have the failure of the Dawn Brigade in FE10 to pull him up. Also is a furry.
Stefan(9): 0.71/1 - Stats and a weapon with high weapon levels. He's worse than the other two at the end, but comes so strong it probably doesn't matter.
Lucia(9): 0.2/1 - >_>
Naesala(9): 0.8/1 - Found him to be consistently the best of the royals. The EXAing and evasion helps more on Hard Ashnard. Granted, only around one map, so despite the fact he is awesome incarnate, it does feel hard to give him perfect scores (especially since any of them...are good) >_>
Edward: 0.4/10 - YOU SUCK. Frail (never gains DEF or RES), awful HP, SPD and LUK are not what you'd expect...ugh. Unique weapon helps not at all when he barely has the STR to support it without SPD loss. Woo I gain MAG! Fails massively, worse than Karla, since at least Karla has a weapon to give to others.
Zihark(10): 6.3/10 - Better than Edward, and a decent enough crutch for the Dawn Brigade. Not great really, but stands out by a lot in the shitfest that is the Dawn Brigade >_>
Vika: 4.2/10 - Just...wish she were around. She ends up decent, but not around enough. Helpful early with the Dawn Brigade, at least!
Nealuchi: 6.5/10 - A weaker version of Naesala. Still relatively good. Has some random availability, which sucks.
Lucia(10): 3.2/10 - While Lucia is relatively better than in her FE9 incarnation...she faces better competition in her group. Owns Edward by miles >_> Otherwise...she's not amazing, but usable...but others are better.
Mia(10): 9.3/10 - Thank god. A competent swordmaster. Owns worlds. Her RES is really the only bad point - she gains lots of DEF and STR and SPD, and Astra is nice when it kicks in. Too bad about Vantage sucking >_>
Naesala(10): 10/10 - I may be a little biased...but...he grows to be overall the best royal (more levels), and SPD is fantastically useful in the endgame. It especially makes Tear evilly crazy. He's around long enough in the hardest parts and follows the group (standard deployment plot-wise) that needs him the most. Excellent crutch, and is helped by being equipped with sexy pants that boost all his stats! Helps that wind isn't common, though bows are...but not crossbows near the end. I'd give all the royals in FE10 a 10/10 anyway, so this doesn't really matter too much >_>
Stefan(10): 6.3/10 - Eh...better in FE9, but...at least on par with Zihark. Comes with a weapon?
-
By the way Meeple, since you said to point out any mistakes... Luke is not a German noble, so no "von."
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 6/10 Solid. I was about equal at controlling Luke and Guy, so durability vs. speed and anti-air.
Tear Grants: 8/10 Healing Circle is pretty necessary, and her nukes aren't too bad when magic damage is required.
Jade Curtis: 5/10 Invaluable in some fights, but... definitely tails off as the game goes on. Generally he was great vs. a single enemy who could be tied up by Luke/Guy without worry of other enemies slipping around to kill the mages.
Guy Cecil: 6/10 See Luke.
Anise Tatlin: 3/10 Not objectively unusable, but... If I want double-mage smashy I'll change Tear's AI and use Jade. If I want two fighters I'll use Luke & Guy.... and if I want three fighters I guess I"ll control Natalia myself and still use Luke & Guy. This means Anise is only useful in the very rare case of wanting three mages for a fight. She controls too much like a boat otherwise, and I don't trust Tales Mage-fighter AI which tends to do things like "run up to enemy, punch them, then charge a spell."
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 6/10 Just a solid all-rounder. Clearly has some soloing cheese potential as well.
Asch: DNR. He's fine the first time you have him I guess, and he's not a complete liabilty the second time.
Tales of the Abyss was a very balanced cast to me, hence the fairly flat scores. Also played on Hard mode for whatever it's worth.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Guy: 3/10. A little unfair, but eh, I felt that you have forced Lyn already and you don't need two swordmasters. In a vacuum probably fine, just is hampered with the "almost strictly worse than an alternative which is forced" deal.
Raven: Didn't use, looked like he sucked when I got him and didn't bother. Since this is apparently false I'll refrain from ranking.
Karel(7): 4/10. Wo Dao was nice? Just see Guy, still competing against Lyn and I don't feel two SMs makes much sense for a team. Would much rather have movement and weapon choice and range 2 options off Cavaliers, or less movement but better options/range off mages, etc.
Harken: Didn't even get I think?
Karla: 1/10. Didn't get either, but know enough to stamp a big 1 right here. Doesn't quite reach the 0/10 level of fail at least, that requires a very special "screw you" to the player.
Joshua: 5/10. Decent enough, and in Ephraim's path doesn't compete against Eirika!
Gerik: 7/10. Pretty awesome I found, good all-rounder who still consistently doubled the baddies and killed them dead.
Marisa: 4/10. The low STR makes her a slave to the RNG, and she's hurt in that she joins underlevel around the time that FE8 is still hard, then by the time she catches up it's the FE8 lategame which is easy.
Mia(9): 5/10. I used Mia the entire game because Vantage is cool, but I'll admit she's nothing special. Dodge isn't too consistent, so she's more like a mage-killer with suspect RES. Still, I gave her two Resistance-up items, and this made her quite good at the job of mage killing, so she's workable enough with some support.
Zihark(9): 4/10. Zihark theoretically has slightly better stats than Mia... except he has worse Resistance and Luck. Since Range-2 mages hitting Resistance are the most glaring problem these two have, yeah, this makes him worse than Mia to me. Prefer Vantage to Adept anyway.
Stefan(9): 4/10. Uh. Has some use if you have trouble with the midgame I guess? His terrible Luck means I wouldn't want to use him consistently thanks to ye olde "damnit enemy crit reset" problem.
Lucia(9): 3/10. Not very good. Not terrible if everyone's been dying left and right I guess.
Naesala(9): DNR.
-
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 5/10
Tear Grants: 7/10
Jade Curtis: 4/10
Guy Cecil: 7/10
Anise Tatlin: 2/10
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 8/10.
Asch: DNR
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 5/10
Rutger: 7/10
Oujay: 5/10
Fir: 7/10.
Echidna: --
Karel(6):----
Guy: 6/10
Raven: 8/10
Karel(7): ---
Harken: ---
Karla: ---
Joshua: 8/10
Gerik: 7/10
Marisa: 6/10
Mia(9): 3/10
Zihark(9): 3/10
Stefan(9): 4/10
Lucia(9): 1/10
Naesala(9): 5/10
Edward: 3/10
Zihark(10): 5/10
Vika: 2/10
Nealuchi: 3/10
Lucia(10): 4/10
Mia(10): 8/10
Naesala(10): 7/10
Stefan(10): 6/10
-
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 5/10 - He's there, he's hitting things.
Tear Grants: 8/10 - Her healing is great, her attack magic is solid, and she can keep herself from getting splattered at melee.
Jade Curtis: 4/10 - His casting times blow, though at least he helps tie things up.
Guy Cecil: 7/10 - Great at abusing free run, and so very fast on the attack. Not quite as good at holding off clusters on his own as Luke in my experience, but he can just bait them into running in circles instead.
Anise Tatlin: 3/10 - Doesn't bring anything to the table, though the tanking gets some points.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear 7/10 - Would be higher if the AI was better with her; not really bad at anything.
Asch: DNR
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 7/10 - Brutal early on, crushing the couple maps right after you get him. Drops off a bit later, but never gets bad, and his con makes him a good Durandal wielder.
Rutger: 9/10 - MVP? He has damage, evasion, that massive crit, good supports, and can still take a hit.
Oujay: 5/10 - He has potential, but catching him up doesn't usually feel worth it.
Fir: 9/10 - Rutger, trading a little damage and some durability for crazier evasion and wider support variety. Feels about even.
Echidna: 5.5/10 - Decent late axe user.
Karel(6): Abstain
Guy: 7/10 - Needs strength BADLY, but get a little lucky with it and he can rip anything with lower def to shreds. Good supports!
Raven: 9.5/10 - It's... hard to overstate just how good Raven is at almost anything; closest thing to a complaint is his con, and he still doubles most guys with the weapons that matter.
Karel(7): 4/10 - Gives you a good weapon? Otherwise very there.
Harken: 6/10 - Totally usable pre-promo, and a good addition if your team runs into trouble.
Karla: 1/10 - Hahaha
Joshua: 7.5/10 - Rutger without the insane crit and with more competition.
Gerik: 8/10 - So very solid in either Ranger or Hero, both great classes.
Marisa: 5/10 - Untouchable once she catches up, but she comes underleveled and never has much damage.
Mia(9): 5/10 - Marisa that joins early and at a good level, only in a game with higher def enemies. At least Vantage is good.
Zihark(9): 6/10 - Earth affinity and a little more damage brings him up.
Stefan(9): 6/10 - Good str! Dies more than the others though.
Lucia(9): 2/10 - No reason to ever use her.
Naesala(9): 7/10
Edward: 4.5/10 - A liability very early, he helps the DB out later at least. Gets okay endgame if you don't mind playing catch-up.
Zihark(10): 7/10 - Rocks with the DB despite the durability. Not very usable endgame, but DB is harder.
Vika: 2.5/10 - Rescues a dude or something. Fast as fuck.
Nealuchi: 3/10 - Not a total failure.
Lucia(10): 3/10 - Good when you have to use her at least.
Mia(10): 8/10 - An honest-to-god good SM in Tellius. Str is more than enough now, everything else is just as good.
Naesala(10): 8/10 - A bit more available than some Royals in exchange for being less horrifying. If you SS his claw he's certainly good for endgame anyways.
Stefan(10): 5.5/10 - Solid, but barely ever there.
-
Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 4/10. Never really got used to using him and his AI is loltalesmeleeAI. Jewel at least gives him a stretch where he might fit into the party though.
Tear Grants: 7.5/10. Healing battery and a good one, Tales charge times be damned. Back up magic is nice but yeah. Always nice to have in the team.
Jade Curtis: 5/10. Eh, he's kinda there. Spells are quite nice for setting up FOFs and tying things up at least. Boring to control though and the speed is blargh.
Guy Cecil: 7.5/10. Kinda unremarkable early on. Then his C.Core starts picking up speed and he learns a few money moves and jesus. Now he ties enemies up in game like crazy and kites the rest. Can self heal, which is pretty cool in a pinch. Raw defense just sucks though.
Anise Tatlin: 3.5/10. Bloody Howling is awesome. Too bad she gets it way too late. Once she does though, that's pretty much all she does. Unremarkable otherwise
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 8/10 Team MVP. Secondary healer (worse than Tear), but has range, can snipe safely and enough speed to make the sniping possible. Damage could use some work, but hey. I assume that she gets worse as you amp up the difficulty, but on Normal/Hard, she's awesome.
Asch: DNR. He joins for like one dungeon. God help me if I can remember what he does other than suck though.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 7/10. His early showing is worth a lot for me, especially since early FE6 can be quite the bitch. He kinda slumps later on but still servicable at least. Like Bors, you may consider ditching him for another unit later especially once they get better.
Rutger: 8/10. Never lags. Brings the offense with his speed, class bonus and supports. Mono weapon hurts, but at least its FE6 Swords
Oujay: 5/10. Yeah. I think a 5 works here. Takes a while to get going, never gets WHOAMG but he's quite decent when caught up.
Fir: 7.5/10. Starts off a bit weaker than Rutger, eventually gets better than him. Still, Rutger never has lag and I don't think Fir really outperforms Rutger significantly even when she is finally beating him.
Echidna: 6/10. WHOA. Usable Filler in FE6? Blapshemy. Echidna is probably the best person you an have use axes. Her strength is kinda bad yeah, but the skill lets her use lolFE6axes decently and she's solid otherwise.
Karel(6): 6/10. Usable end game filler. He joins with 1 map left, so he's like SOL for supports. But he's still usable at least.
Guy: 7/10. Solid. Weakish start, but you can drop him if he's not gaining strength. And that Matt support can keep him afloat for a while. Standard swordsmaster offense, although not FE6 level insane.
Raven: 8.5/10. 13 base speed at level 5 with 8 strength. And he has 45/55 growths in those two stats to boot. Jesus Christ. AND he has some fast supports with a couple of really awesome units (Pris/Lucius). BUT BUT HE CAN'T USE AXES WITHOUT -1AS LOSS OMG.
Karel(7): 3/10. Uh...he's usable filler. Bases could use some work (ew Strength and ew HP) and getting him costs you a better unit here as well.
Harken: 6/10. Pretty good objectively. Some of his support options are just lol (Hi Isodora), but his bases are servicable. As a bonus, that Brave Sword he brings along > Karel's Wo Dao to boot.
Karla: 0/10. Karla doesn't even exist until New Game+ (effectively Hector mode). Then you have to train up Bartre, who himself isn't that good, which means you have to dedicate a portion of your EXP resource pool to him AND get him up to level 5 promoted. Oh and after that, he has to fight Karla and both of these idiots have to survive (not difficult with Iron Rune/Bow on Bartre but yeah). When you finally do get Karla, you get a unit that is effectively worse than an average unit that you could've otherwise used Bartre's EXP for wit 2 maps left to go. As I put it once in chat, its like Rolf and Shinon in FE9. You use one shitty unit to get another shitty unit. THIS IS CLEARLY THE WAY. EDIT: Screw it. 0 it is.
Joshua: 7/10. Effectively Guy with better start but worse end due to competition and base support affinity. Still plenty solid and worth utilizing.
Gerik: 7/10. I guess. Gerik's kinda beastly. His con basically means he rarely suffers an AS loss and his bases are pretty notable. Could use more speed growth, but he's fairly strong regardless.
Marisa: 3/10. Way too much effort, but at least she becomes solid if you do the effort in and isn't a total pain in the ass to raise.
Mia(9): 5/10. Can't objectively give FE9 Mia higher than his. Knight Ward laughs at SM speed. Then they have lolMgt due to FE9 Swords and they're less overall durable. Not mounted, so there's no Cantoing. Less move than mounted. But Mia can at least work some supports to get her strength up and her offense is at least workable.
Zihark(9): 5/10. A different variant than Mia trading in some strength from supports for more avoid. Depends on what you value more. Adept vs. Vantage would be a debate here, but Vantage being always active trumps the proc. rate for Adept in FE9 for me.
Stefan(9): 6/10. His stats are lolwat for midgame. I would give him higher except his LUCK (haha wow, luck actually being relevant) makes him get randomly crit blick'd and die and argh why :|
Lucia(9): 1/10. BUT SHE CAN SUPPORT WITH BASTIAN. YESZ
Naesala(9): 5/10. Same comments as Giffca9 anyway. Naesala deals less damage, but flight + doubling the shit out of everything is cool.
Edward: 3/10. Edward is such garbage. The only way he even becomes remotely decent is if he gets massively defense blessed (and I do mean massively). His offense isn't even that good to start and it takes him a while to catch up to Zihark. Caladbolg's +8 Luck is pretty crappy since Edward doesn't have noticable evade. Then on top of that, Wrath gets him gj'd and self owned because hey lack of noticable evade. Oh and when he's finally beating Zihark, its way too late and matters too little. So what the hell is getting Edward points? Well as bad as he is, his offense is pretty valuable for the first few Part 1 maps. Also, before Nolan and Zihark start supporting each other, its possible for Edward to have some leech time with Nolan since they build a support quickly. That's around it. Otherwise, he's another frail but project unit in the DB and god knows how many of those there are >_>.
Zihark(10): 7.5/10. Uh yeah. Much better. Zihark's raw durability sucks, but his offense starts off noticably better. Earth affin, which means that he can support Nolan/Aran/Volug/Jill for some dodge hax shinengans to offset raw durability. However, Micaiah has no authority stars, so he's never really Super Dodger Tank Master. Innate Adept is also pretty cool her.
Vika: 3.5/10. She exists like Muarim for a few maps and flies. Similar score here works.
Nealuchi: 3.5/10. Workable. 36 Speed is quite adequate for a long time. Nealuchi really lacks screen time though and that really hurts since his strike never catches up and he's basically offensively inept after Part 2. He does however, at least fly and have good size for performing rescues and drops. And he can provide some support in a pinch.
Lucia(10): 3/10. roflstomps a map. But said map also has Mordecai and Lethe who are both also roflstomping (so a bit lesser credit here). She is otherwise...pretty bad. But hey, Earth affinity. So at least some incentive exists for her to be used. The offense just sucks by the time she rejoins and she has nothing else to offer other than Earth affin.
Mia(10): 8.5/10. Mia10 is quite awesome and I just might be a bit biased~. Great offensive, and effective dodge also means she's very unlikely to get killed. Adept might as well go on her, which shoots up the offensive worth value and she moves farther than Gatrie. 3rd best GM to me (counting only the core GMs, so no Haar/Brom/Nephenee, etc)
Naesala(10): 8/10. Worst of the royals, but he's still destroying shit. Crossbows keep him in check and from completely one manning the field.
Stefan(10): 6/10. Usable filler like Volke in the endgame if you absolutely need some filler units. And pretty good at that since Trueblades are a good endgame class.
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Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 4/10.
Tear Grants: 4/10.
Jade Curtis: 5/10.
Guy Cecil: 7/10.
Anise Tatlin: 3/10.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 6/10.
Asch: DNR (2/10)
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 6/10. Usable endgame, useful early.
Rutger: 7/10. Pretty good. I do have to say though, I felt like he wasn't really that far ahead of Fir when she joined, given her map, so... well, basically I'm feeling they're on even footing in the getting experience race, more or less.
Oujay: 4/10. Ehhh, 'sokay in theory but I feel like starting lower levelled than Dieck and joining 6 maps later just kinda makes him silly.
Fir: 8/10. So like I was saying, I figure Fir and Rutger are on even footing, so the fact she turns out better makes her better, rather than playing catchup. ANYWAY, Fir's like a character that jumped out of FE10's endgame to destroy all that is FE6, considering the absurdly reliable crits and dodge-hax. (My own Fir was definitely a 9 and probably the best combat PC of the GBA games, but I know she was like +4 strength on her average which was pretty important to that.)
Echidna: Abstain. I missed her entirely somehow.
Karel(6): 5/10. Servicable, and considering that the map after the one he joins is kinda... 'pull out the doom weapons and have fun', he basically just gets to help out at no cost (well, no cost beyond "deploy Fir", since that's oh so costly) on a moderately nasty map. He's not awesome, but he'll take care of himself and can't hurt certainly.
Guy: 7/10. Pretty good. Prone to that screwage thing but... eh, not feeling it costs him a full point today.
Raven: 8/10. High in the running for best character in FE7? Lyn and Hector and... hm. Probably Pent. All of whom I gave or will be giving 8s. Yeah.
Karel(7): 3/10.
Harken: 4/10.
Karla: 1/10. Well, the retarded lateness and being NG+ and all assures a 2. Having to use Bartre significantly feels like another point. How the hell did these two make Fir again?
Joshua: 7/10. See Guy, minus screwage potential but not with enough oomph for the 8 I guess.
Gerik: 7/10. It must be said. Even though this wasn't how I used him. BRAVE RANGER GERIK RIDES AGAIN.
Marisa: 5/10. Josh kinda steals her niche.
Mia(9): 4/10. While I've never felt the whole mono-swords hate the elf's got, FE9's evade mechanics still makes it the worst game in the series for SMs. Sooo yeah, usual strength screwage problem plus not evade whoring, but still. You certainly CAN use her. I'm pretty sure I did. At least, I don't think I'm imagining doing so due to definitely doing so in FE10.
Zihark(9): 4/10. I think, anyway? Didn't seem significantly different from a decent Mia.
Stefan(9): Abstain.
Lucia(9): 2/10.
Naesala(9): 7/10.
Edward: 3/10. l;kjl;aljak;lasdjklasj;lDAWNBRIGAAAADDDEEEEEEE
Zihark(10): 6/10. Saves Dawn Brigade. And has more concrete durability than 75% of them. Despite being a fairly average SM for that. *sigh* fucking Dawn Brigade.
Vika: 4/10.
Nealuchi: 2/10.
Lucia(10): 3/10.
Mia(10): 6/10. Like so many puny humans, feels outmatched in Endgame (although Astra's pretty nifty when it feels like kicking in). Before that pretty danged good though.
Naesala(10): 8/10. Not a puny human. Cain and Tibarn make everyone else look a little worse, but still badass.
Stefan(10): Abstain. Fuck your recruit requirements.
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Stefan (9)- 7. Absurb midgame stats+weapon+now you die chance too! Admittedly, I didn't use him much because he felt like too much of a trump card, but yeah.
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Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 10/10 way awsome
Rutger: 9/10 yeah hes good
Oujay: 8/10 I used him once and hes not bad
Fir: 9/10
Echidna: 6/10 actually useable prepromote!
Karel(6): Do not rank
Guy: 7/10 Just not as good as others
Raven: 8/10 meh, dont get the "best character in the game hype)
Karel(7): 5/10 Hes okay
Harken: 8/10 He always ends up similar to Raven when I use him
Karla: 1/10 would be a 5, but availability
Joshua: 10/10
Gerik: 10/10
Marisa: 9/10
Mia(9): 7/10
Zihark(9): 8/10
Stefan(9): 9/10 best swordsmaster in 9 IMHO
Lucia(9): 4/10
Naesala(9): 10/10 yeah you get him for 1 map. But on that map, hes a 10.
Edward: 4/10
Zihark(10): 8/10
Vika: 5/10 I always like project characters like Vika
Nealuchi: 4/10
Lucia(10): 3/10
Mia(10): 9/10
Naesala(10): 9/10
Stefan(10): abstain, I dont remember his FE10 stats at all.
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Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 6/10 - I played the entirety of TotA two-player with my little brother. He alternated control between Guy and Anise, while I played a bit of each of the others. Luke's best feature was how all his elemental attacks would pop FOFs back open to chain into the FOF Effect skills. The fact that he could take advantage of any element was the big deal for him, though sometimes it was difficult to remember which skill combined with which element.
Tear Grants: 8/10 - Really fun to play as her in the earlygame, actually. This became nearly impossible once she got her group-healing stuff, though. On AI, she's a great healer, though we rarely let her cast offensive spells.
Jade Curtis: 4/10 - Really only good for making FOFs or for spamming Thunder Lance if you felt like playing a physical game with him. Unlike Tear and Anise, he only makes the mono-elemental FOFs, making him worse for synergy play than either of them... >.>;;
Guy Cecil: 7.5/10 - My little brother was pretty awesome with Guy, and the speed is quite useful and he's probably your best bet for an AI-controlled melee unit, but...
Anise Tatlin: 8/10 - Holy crap he destroyed worlds with Anise. I can understand that people don't like slow characters, but my bro figured out how to run the best crowd control with Anise. Her TP reserves ended up better than the other Melee options, so most fights took advantage of the range on her skills rather than relying on her slow physicals. The durability definitely let her top Luke. However, one of the interesting things about co-op was that my bro could switch Anise between melee and mage options without getting pounded, and we tended to play an Anise/Luke combo where Luke ran in to take advantage of the dual-elemental Dark FOF left behind by Bloody Howling. Also, the Dolls/Jewel of Lorelei combo is unstoppable.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear - 8/10 - Didn't end up using her as much as the others, as she's more of a solo-oriented PC. She owned the colloseum for us, though, so I'm down with some Natalia hype. Clearly I need to do a Natalia-solo challenge replay!
Asch: 5/10 - Just meh. He's fine as a temp, sucks in his endgame appearance. Classic fighter-mage, but all his spells suck, so really he's just a sub-par fighter.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 6
Rutger: 7.5
Oujay: 5
Fir: 8
Echidna: 5
Karel(6): 4?
Guy: 7
Raven: 8
Karel(7): 5
Harken: 5
Karla: 0
Joshua: 9
Gerik: 8
Marisa: 7.5
Mia(9): 6.5
Zihark(9): 6
Stefan(9): 4 for being FAQ-bait
Lucia(9): 3
Naesala(9): 8 (but 11!!!! if I was allowed to be biased)
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Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 6/10. Alright for what he is, but competing with Guy hurts him some.
Tear Grants: 8/10. Decent enough healer and mage.
Jade Curtis: 7/10. Decent enough mage.
Guy Cecil: 7/10. Typical Tales Main style, but isn't amazing at it.
Anise Tatlin: 4/10. Fighter Mage, but doesn't do well at either until apparently some really late game skills...which no to creditting for that much.
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear 7/10. Fighter/Healer, good for what she is.
Asch: DNR. Yeah, not around enough to really rate well, and intentionally gimped.
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 6/10. Decent enough for what he is.
Rutger: 8/10. Swordmasters rule in FE6.
Oujay: 6/10. Dieck variant. Worse early, better later.
Fir: 8/10. Swordmasters rule in FE6.
Echidna: 5/10. Passable filler.
Karel(6): 3/10. Pasable Filler, just way too late and at a point where you will almost never need that filler.
Guy: 6/10. Decent, but Swordmasters are less awesome in FE7 due to lower crit rate, and Lances being significantly better. Also better competition.
Raven: 9/10. Like this guy! Basically a swordmaster with a slight durability push and the option of axes later on (Thus ranged damage.)
Karel(7): 4/10. Works if you really want a swordmaster and Guy was badly gimped, I guess.
Harken: 7/10. Meanwhile, this guy is good even if you're using Raven cause he's just very solid overall. His only real flaw is joining late thus making room for him on your team, but he may very well beat out someone else.
Karla: 1/10. She hands you a Wo Dao! That's better than nothing? I wanna give her lower, but there's a clear distinction between Karla and Jogurt.
Joshua: 7/10. Guy with better strength.
Gerik: 7/10. Dieck who lasts longer, and has the option of Ranger.
Marisa: 6/10. Fir in a game with better competition; I don't hold Fir's "joins at level 1" thing that much against her since her early maps are rigged i her favor so much, she has no problems catching up, hence the 2 point discrepancy.
Mia(9): 6/10. Vantage + Wrath is a cool combo on her, but that's about it.
Zihark(9): 4/10. Adept is neat, but not enough to save him.
Stefan(9): 5/10. Mid game cannon, who if built up, can fill in a slot in the major 18 unit chapter or something; not much else.
Lucia(9): 2/10. She joins earlier and can pull her weight for at least 2 chapters or something, if still kind of suck, which is more than Karla can do! yeah, that earns her a point.
Naesala(9): 6/10. Awesome for the one chapter you have him, but at the same time, he's the worst of the 3 options, and its still one freaking chapter.
Edward: 4/10. He pulls his weight, but sucks as a long term option.
Zihark(10): 7/10. STrong early game performance and pulls his weight just enough to get you through DB Sections of Part 3; Earth Affinity helps.
Vika: 3/10. Good in Part 1, especially in the Swamp chapter, FAILS MISERABLY later on, due to lack of use.
Nealuchi: 4.5/10. Good in Part 2, can be alright in Part 4, but the offense is quite sad due to strength and lack of weapon levels. Half a point for being an extra potential flier for the Swamp/Desert (depending which team you send him on), which is handy.
Lucia(10): 5/10. Kicks the crap out of one chapter, can do kind of alright in Part 4, isn't far from a promotion which lets her fill a slot well enough.
Mia(10): 8/10. Now we're talking. Good at everything you want Swordmasters to be good at.
Naesala(10): 7.5/10. Bad for a Laguz Royal, which means he's merely Overpowered instead of TOTALLY BROKEN. Would be higher but unusable until part 4 holds him back some.
Stefan(10): 3/10. Joins too late to care, on a desert no less so its hard to really get use out of him. Not bad but just kind of pointless beyond handing you the Vague Katti.
And yes, this is a bit of a warning that an update is coming soonish or something
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Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 8/10
Rutger: 8/10
Oujay: 6/10
Fir: 6/10
Echidna: 6/10
Karel(6): 4/10
Guy: 6/10
Raven: 7/10
Karel(7): 5/10
Harken: 6/10
Karla: 1/10
Joshua: 7/10
Gerik: 7/10
Marisa: 5/10
Mia(9): 6/10
Zihark(9): 6/10
Stefan(9): 5/10
Lucia(9): 3/10
Naesala(9): 5/10
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Tales of the Abyss:
Luke fon Fabre: 4.93
Tear Grants: 7.36
Jade Curtis: 4.82
Guy Cecil: 7.03
Anise Tatlin: 3.89
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear: 7.00
Asch: N/A
Fire Emblem Swordmasters, Heroes and Ravens:
Dieck: 6.75
Rutger: 7.92
Oujay: 5.54
Fir: 7.71
Echidna: 5.55
Karel(6): 4.30
Guy: 6.13
Raven: 8.36
Karel(7): 3.79
Harken: 5.88
Karla: 0.77
Joshua:7.00
Gerik: 7.25
Marisa: 5.21
Mia(9): 5.44
Zihark(9): 5.46
Stefan(9): 5.63
Lucia(9): 2.29
Naesala(9): 6.65
Edward: 3.78
Zihark(10): 6.86
Vika: 3.64
Nealuchi: 3.88
Lucia(10): 3.25
Mia(10): 8.07
Naesala(10): 8.38
Stefan(10): 5.42
Best Rating of this Session: Naesala (10) w/ 8.38
Worst Rating of this Session: Karla w/ 0.77
Asch gets THE BOOT, being DNR'd, you know the drill.
Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius:
Jessica Philomele:
Nicole Mimi Tithel:
Flay Gunnar:
Pamela Ibis:
Roxis Rosenkrantz:
Anna Lemouri:
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII:
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt:
Dorothy:
Sue:
Shin:
Klein:
Igrene:
Dayan:
Wil:
Rath:
Rebecca:
Louise:
Neimi:
Innes:
Shinon(9):
Rolf(9):
Lethe(9):
Astrid(9):
Ranulf(9):
Leonardo:
Volug:
Nailah:
Lethe(10):
Astrid(10):
Shinon(10):
Rolf(10):
Lyre:
Ranulf(10):
I do want to say one thing before moving on, cause some people don't seem to understand:
Values not based on factors out of 10 DO NOT get counted. Please stop trying to be cute and silly; it makes counting up noms take that much longer, especially for big groups like this. I stated on the first page "rate out of 10" even, so there's no excuse of "YOU DIDN'T SAY I COULDN'T!"
So if it seems like a rating was skipped or something, that's why. Its really just not funny after a point, makes counting up values that much harder, etc.
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Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: Bows are relatively better in FE6 than they are in FE7 but they're still not that great, and Wolt suffers from a combination of mediocre bases and mediocre growths. 3/10
Dorothy: Better than Wolt but not by a significant margin. 3.5/10
Sue: Sue meanwhile had the decency to come with good bases and is in the better bow class. 5/10
Shin: Pretty much works out similar to Sue. 5/10
Klein: Garbage, pretty much. Crappy typical early-prepromo bases and joins at at midgame. Yes this is certainly an excellent way to secure a slot on the roster. 1/10
Igrene: Actually has decent bases, so you could use her if you wanted to use a sniper instead of one of the nomads for whatever silly reason. 3/10
Dayan: Not completely terrible. 2/10
Wil: Slightly more impressive than Wolt statistically, but not enough to warrant a higher score. 3/10
Rath: Less impressed with Rath than I am with the FE6 nomads. Guess joining underleveled at midgame does that. 3.5/10
Rebecca: Speed is nice. Has some strength issues but supports are there to sort that out should you care. 4/10
Louise: Bad but not horribly so. 1.5/10
Neimi: oh hey it's Rebecca with better strength, a superior promotion option, and a lightning-fast Fire/Light support. 5/10
Innes: Serviceable at worst. 2.5/10
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You forgot Nikki for the MK PCs, Meeple (Nicole Mimi Tithel is the full name if you care).
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 6/10. I think. Has pretty solid crowd control at points, but rarely felt special or needed.
Jessica Philomele: 6.5/10. I dunno. She's really fragile at first and her damage kinda sucks, but timed card healing rules. Also great D-support late.
Nikki: 7/10. Speed ensures her use in randoms, makes her not bad everywhere else, and she had pretty nice damage generally.
Flay Gunnar: 5/10. There, does boss damage.
Pamela Ibis: 3/10. Not too impressed here.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 7/10. Bad start, but possibly MVP when he gets going. Mage who actually has damage! Lots of it! And Purifying rules.
Anna Lemouri: 5.5/10. Turn gimmicks are pretty handy, but her overall stats are very clearly the worst of the fighters (not as fast as you'd think, worst damage, worst durability). Too bad, when she gets her damage spikes she feels like one of the best.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 3/10. Sucks, but has that D-support late.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 2.5/10. Wolt is so bad. Like, half the prepromos have better stats at equal levels. FE6 PREPROMOS AT EQUAL LEVELS.
Dorothy: 3/10. Better, but yeah, not much. Would be better if Saul had a horse or something.
Sue: 6/10. Seems right. A little shaky on strength but Nomad + speed is cool.
Shin: 7/10. Sue, but with better strength and a Fir support.
Klein: 1.5/10. One of the aforementioned FE6 prepromos.
Igrene: 4/10. I've used her as filler often enough, she's okay. Game's best sniper says so much.
Dayan: 3/10. Mediocre but not... -horrid-.
Wil: 2.5/10. It feels like every FE has one character who starts weak, and feels like he should get better! And never does. Wil is that in FE7. Only two of his stats matter, and one is average (Str) while the other is below (Spd). And he has the worst class in the game.
Rath: 4/10. The stats are nice, but he has trouble catching up.
Rebecca: 3.5/10. I've had a lot of fun with the evade nonsense, but objectively pretty bad. Starting stats + terrible class.
Louise: 4/10. Has that auto-A with Pent.
Neimi: 6/10. What Rebecca wants to be, yeah. Substantially more attack, bows are better, awesome promotion.
Innes: 3.5/10. Exists. Is okay filler.
Shinon(9): 1/10. lolololol
Rolf(9): 1.5/10. Also awful, but I give him a half point for being noticeably better than Shinon. Says so much.
Lethe(9): 6/10. Respectable enough since she's good early, doesn't quite keep up but never terrible?
Astrid(9): 7.5/10. Astrid is cool, but I dunno if she's 8-level cool. Great stats + FE9 paladin though.
Ranulf(9): 3/10. Lethe by the time Lethe has fallen into mediocrity.
Leonardo: 3.5/10. Lughnasadh gets him above the worst of the DB.
Volug: 9.5/10. Best character in the game. Exists and dominates the game's hardest sections generally (1-5 onwards - DB Part 3), and remains awesome in the game's second hardest section (Part 4).
Nailah: 9/10. Super awesome in all her chapters, but many of them she is competing with other awesomes. If she had a few more chapters... eh. Tempted to be fanboyish and give her a 9.5 too, but nah.
Lethe(10): 4/10. Modestly impressed when I used her, since I was expecting crap. She has great potential and is decent out of the gate. Just... cat gauge issues, and the midgame definitely has some problems.
Astrid(10): 1/10. What the hell happened to you, woman?
Rolf(10): 6.5/10. What the fuck is that strength on? Speed's not bad either. The start needs work. Double Bow to the rescue in endgame, of course.
Shinon(10): 7/10. Rolf, without the strength, but with a much better start. Think it balances out in his favour.
Lyre: 1/10. Worst character in a cast of 70. Good fucking job, try having more
Ranulf(10): 6/10. Cat holds him back, but his stats are pretty great.
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 7/10. Well, scan gets him a party slot at the least. Otherwise, INFINITE THORNS is pretty useful, the high end skills are a bit impractical but good stats help.
Jessica Philomele: 6/10. Drops off towards the end as you need to heal less, but solid for large chunks of the game.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 7/10. Fast, non-SP offense gives her some more options on where to spend her resources, plus several of those skills are prime random-slayers.
Flay Gunnar: 6/10. Raiden Charge is great, damage is great, speed and resources not so great. Also hurt by... well at least I thought the two nastiest bosses in the game. Anyway, they're anti-lightning. Bad mojo.
Pamela Ibis: 5/10. Takes over as team healer in the lategame, and a good crutch throughout thanks to Immortal Body, but the stats definitely hurt and skilled play neuters her main niche.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 6/10. I only really got use out of Purify very late, but it's a good niche even so.
Anna Lemouri: 5/10. I like her ability to pump out damage fast and switch the hell out, but this can be problematic in long enough fights so it's probably not objectively an awesome niche.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 3/10. He has one good move, that I used against one enemy in the game. He should not be deployed before or after that battle.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 3/10. Uh, well he's early filler.
Dorothy: 3/10. Filler archer. I suppose.
Sue: 7/10. hey, real character. Anyway, she's... Lyn. Lyn without Mani Katti, sadly (Sue would kill for that extra punch against early-game knights and cavs), but still.
Shin: 7/10. I've never used him because I don't really need two Nomads, and Sue's prettier, similar in stats, and probably better levelled but on the other hand Fir supports a good thing, so he can be even with Sue and we'll call it good.
Klein: Heh. Hehehhe. Heh. 2/10.
Igrene: 2/10.
Dayan: 2/10. Sue just shames him so badly, and like I said, I don't see a compelling reason to use more than one Nomad.
Wil: 4/10. Filler. But you could probably use him ultimately.
Rath: 4/10. Rath's really damned good just... the late recruitment is very stupid.
Rebecca: 5/10. She turns out well enough, but meh to archers in FE7.
Louise: 5/10. Well, you ARE using Pent anyway...
Neimi: 8/10. Neimi/Colm is the other power couple alongside Tana/Eph. Wrecks shit and has the ever popular Ranger option.
Innes: 4/10. Could be worse.
Shinon(9): 2/10. Like this.
Rolf(9): 3/10. Well. He's all the archer you're gonna get. For whatever that's worth.
Lethe(9): 2/10.
Astrid(9): 7/10. I mean, aside from Astrid. weapon doesn't even matter for FE9 cavs so >.>
Ranulf(9): 2/10.
Leonardo: 4/10. That is a pretty sweet bow.
Volug: 5/10. Great for part one, not worth it later. everyone is crazy.
Nailah: 8/10. Sexy.
Lethe(10): 2/10.
Astrid(10): 2/10. ;_;
Shinon(10): 7/10. Quite solid.
Rolf(10): 5/10. He seems redundant with Shinon around but "Shinon you have to raise up a bit" is hardly a bad thing.
Lyre: 2/10.
Ranulf(10): 3/10. You really could use him, if he wasn't in the worst class in the game. As is, well, he'll at least be usable if you feel like putting up with it.
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Neimi: 7/10. Slow start, but really gets going a few chapters after you get her. By end-game, she tears apart almost anything. Still a little frail, but dodges most stuff too.
Innes: 2/10. *punt*
Shinon(9): 3/10. Better than Innes, but only because he has early use where he is Jeigan. Stupid recruitment and useless later makes him lolworthy.
Rolf(9): 6/10. Actually useful! The ridiculous crit rate makes him good, but it's a shame he needs so much damn help to be useful. I kept hiding him in the back lines for about 5 chapters, and that's after giving him Bonus Exp to get to Lv 4-5.
Lethe(9): Pass~
Astrid(9): Pass~
Ranulf(9): 6/10. Yeah, I used him and he wasn't bad. Will never ever get doubled ever. Shame he can't survive anything and deals barely anything by the last chapter or two. Gains an extra point for practically saving my ass on the bridge stage, since I'd lost Jill by then the first time I played that.
Leonardo: Pass~
Volug: 6/10. Ehh, never found him too useful, and haven't replayed FE10 since hearing all the Volug hype around here.
Nailah: 8/10. Laguz royal SMAAAAAASH. Also helps with DB stage.
Lethe(10): Pass~
Astrid(10): Pass~
Shinon(10): Pass~
Rolf(10): Pass~
Lyre: Pass~
Ranulf(10): Pass~
Wow, I need to replay these games. Someone remind to prod a friend into giving them back sometime.
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Vayne Aurelius: 9.5/10 - Endless loop! I prefer Pamela + Roxis character wise/overall but yeah >.>
Jessica Philomele: 6/10 - Doesn't really fit my playstyle but I can see her potential usefulness for that style of play~
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 7.5/10 - Speed + solid offence + Tricks~
Flay Gunnar: 8/10 - SMASH!!!
Pamela Ibis: 9/10 - UBER SMASH!!! Takes a while to get going but once she does that damage is really something else~ Plus she has other haxy and/or basically just useful stuff >.>
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 9/10 - Purifying + Chains + Retraction + Prevention + <333 awesme support characters with damage >.> I'ma bump Roxis up another half point <.<
Anna Lemouri: 5/10 - The elemental damage halving move was nice! Never really appealed to me in general though. Speed without power doesn't work for CTs
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 7/10 - Godly D support + fire damage - I'd prefer him to have some sort of really uber nonelemental damage too though! Do need to use him more for the OKs, there might be something I'm missing!
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 7/10. Pretty solid throughout the game. Decent crowd-control and decent damage.
Jessica Philomele: 8/10. Healer. Quite nifty.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 6/10. Found her less useful than some, but still fast.
Flay Gunnar: 6/10. Solid, but slow.
Pamela Ibis: 3/10. No.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 7.5/10. Starts poorly, ends well.
Anna Lemouri: 5/10. I always WANTED Anna to be an awesome PC, she just never was.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: No comment. Didn't use him really.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 2/10. lulz.
Dorothy: 4/10.
Sue: 6/10.
Shin: ---
Klein:---
Igrene:---
Dayan:---
Wil: 3/10. Not very good.
Rath: 7/10. I like him!
Rebecca: 5.5/10. ^.^
Louise: 4/10. Used her last playthrough; she's tolerable.
Neimi: 6.5/10. I feel like she's held back a bit by STR but otherwise pretty good.
Innes: 3/10. Filler. Kind of like Louise minus.
Shinon(9): 2/10. KInda useful at the beginning of the game.
Rolf(9): 5/10. Grows into a pretty damn good PC.
Lethe(9): Didn't really use her.
Astrid(9): 8/10. Close to MVP on my first file. Just a really solid PC.
Ranulf(9): Did not use him.
Leonardo: 3/10. Leo stands out on about two maps and is a liability on most of the rest.
Volug: 10/10. Has been extensively discussed in my FE10 ranking topic.
Nailah: 8.5/10. Good, is around for the hardest parts of the game. Low availability though.
Lethe(10): 5/10. Solid. FE10 Laguz are better.
Astrid(10): 1/10. no
Shinon(10): 6/10. Solid.
Rolf(10): 6/10. Solid.
Lyre: 0/10 no
Ranulf(10): 6.5/10
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 7.5/10. Good damage and crowd control, dominates late.
Jessica Philomele: 3/10. Found her to be bench bait at the end of the game.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 5/10. Great start, shitty end. Bench bait late.
Flay Gunnar: 6.5/10. Starts slow, but catches up nicely later on.
Pamela Ibis: 2/10. That point is entirely for her uber dispel making a few bosses easier. Otherwise, absolutely useless for most of the game other than a warm body. Never found her skillset worth noting outside of the dispel and other characters handle damage.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 6.5/10. Chrona Drive/Purification. Roxis has a damn good skillset, but ugh to the start.
Anna Lemouri: 6/10. Fast damage.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 3/10. Useful MT damage and a great D support. Just blah otherwise.
Wil: 2/10. not really worth using.
Rath: 3/10. Fun project character.
Rebecca: 5/10. Really good if you can get her caught up! That start hurts though.
Louise: 2/10
Neimi: 7/10. Great support with Colm, plus overall solidness outside of defense.
Innes: 2/10. Is Wil.
Shinon(9): 2/10. Terrible but at least has a little use early on.
Rolf(9): 1/10. Get out.
Lethe(9):
Astrid(9): 7/10. Starts slow but man, knight ward+Paragon+mounted helps.
Ranulf(9):
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 8.5/10 - Good at all stats, best ST damage at endgame, good MT damage all throughout. Yeah, pretty damn good. Unlimited Blue Works gets him half a point I think (too late for any more than that, and you have to focus on abusing it to get use out of it).
Jessica Philomele: 7/10 - Frail as hell, but timed healing is good for most of the game. Not so much at endgame but it's still decent.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 6.5/10 - Speed gets you initiative in randoms, and that's big. Damage is good too, but too ST oriented unless you dig into the non-SP resources, which are less spammable on randoms. Pretty good overall.
Flay Gunnar: 6/10 - More useful for the defense busting than anything, I found. Raiden Charge is cool and he has good damage due to that, but he's kind of slow.
Pamela Ibis: 7.5/10 - She's not that bad when she joins because Poltergeist has good break damage. Midgame's a bit of a slump, but you can mitigate that with common skills well enough (another reason Jess is better than you'd think). At endgame she gets a good D-Support and Kiss 2 Everyone is good for healing and okay damage at the same time.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 6.5/10 - Purification and Chroma Drive are both really good. Other than that, he doesn't really stand out, but those easily enough.
Anna Lemouri: 7/10 - Speed, line target ID with decent damage, and solid damage with Dancing Chaos Blade. Also works well as a backup mage.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 5/10 - The D-Support is about the only thing he has. Fortunately, it is actually really good. Has more use in the bonus dungeon than the maingame though.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt:
Dorothy:
Sue:
Shin:
Klein:
Igrene:
Dayan:
Wil: 4/10
Rath: 5/10
Rebecca: 7/10
Louise: 6/10
Neimi: 7/10
Innes: 3/10
Shinon(9): 2/10
Rolf(9): 4/10
Lethe(9): 1/10
Astrid(9): 9/10
Ranulf(9): 3/10
Leonardo: 6/10
Volug: 7/10
Nailah: 9/10
Lethe(10): 3/10
Astrid(10): 1/10
Shinon(10): 8/10
Rolf(10): 7.5/10
Lyre: 0/10
Ranulf(10): 5.5/10
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 7/10 - Average with some expensive good damage.
Jessica Philomele: 9/10 Damage fails for the longest time but healing cards are just that damn good.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 6/10 - Works but didn't stand out to me.
Flay Gunnar: 8/10 - Switching meant his bad points never stood out and is a good boss slayer.
Pamela Ibis: 3/10 - Physical immuntity is nice but really unimpressive.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 10/10 - MVP.
Anna Lemouri: 6/10 - Switching was what I had her do most of the time. Not too bad.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 8/10 - Good damage and defences. Saved me quite a bit.
Leonardo: 4/10 - Has a sweet bow.
Volug: 1/10 - Normally I'd rate him a 3 but silly volug hype makes him a 1.
Nailah: 8/10 - Royal isn't getting higher then a 8.
Lethe(10): 2/10
Astrid(10): 1/10 - I have to rate her a 1 because even on the maps where your units dominate (2-3 I think) she is still getting 2HKOed while dishing out crappy damage. Fail.
Shinon(10): 10/10 - Due to dumb enemy AI Shinon can decoy enemy after enemy without taking damage. The fact he doesn't counter till endgame is a postive not a negative.
Rolf(10): 8/10 - Like Shinon except takes a bit to get going. Still being like Shinon is still worth an 8.
Lyre: 1/10
Ranulf(10): 5/10 - Decent Cat.
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Might put reasons later, might not.
Vayne Aurelius: 5.5/10
Jessica Philomele: 6.3/10
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 6.8/10
Flay Gunnar: 6.8/10
Pamela Ibis: 8/10
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 8/10
Anna Lemouri: 6/10
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 6/10
Wolt: Who?
Dorothy: What?
Sue: 9/10
Shin: Where?
Klein: When?
Igrene: Why?
Dayan: How?
Wil: 1/10
Rath: 7/10
Rebecca: 9.1/10
Louise: 4/10
Neimi: 9/10
Innes: 5.5/10
Shinon(9): 5/10
Rolf(9): 6/10
Lethe(9): 6/10
Astrid(9): 7.5/10
Ranulf(9): 8/10
Leonardo: 0.9/10
Volug: 5.3/10
Nailah: 9.4/10
Lethe(10): 6/10
Astrid(10): 1/10
Shinon(10): 8/10
Rolf(10): 7/10
Lyre: 5/10
Ranulf(10): 7/10
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Mana Khemia
Vayne Aurelius: 6/10. He's always solid, but never outstanding. Crowd control physicals and solid offense are okay niches, but not lifesavers.
Jessica Philomele: 6.5/10. The durability is very shaky, especially in the early game, and the offense is always bad. On the other hand, man, the timed healing is cool. Lategame supports are also very good.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 7.5/10. I think Nikki's the MVP after the replay, but funny enough, there's no PC in the cast I find outstanding enough to go beyond a 7.5. Balance is neat enough there. ANYWAY, game-best speed is soooooooo good, and she's got an outstanding early game. Later on, her mostly ST reliance starts showing, but she's always got offense and speed, and keeping up the beast resource stocks is a breeze. Yeah, works.
Flay Gunnar: 5/10. Game-best physical damage and he's pretty durable! But the stats don't really work for random-busting and he has no crowd control at all. Magic faces less walling than physicals too (no Magic Blocker in MK1, at least).
Pamela Ibis: 3/10. Oh wow, Pamela is almost completely useless for about one third of the time she's in the party besides warm body duties. The skillset is risky, and while I can appreciate the idea behind the HP manipulation for No Bullying! and The Grudge, both of those are gotten a fair ways in and also require prancing around with low HP with an egregiously frail PC - and No Bullying is entirely ST to boot, making it just a boss-killer move. The use I got from her was really just using Kiss 4 Everyone for MT healing before Jessica got Healing Echo Omega. It's a pretty decent use, I guess, but just not enough to justify being borderline dead weight for so long. Lategame physical immunity also isn't too awesome: magic is very common in MK and the good bosses are all mages too. Pamela lacks reliable, efficient and steady offense, and with my mindset, playing around just for shiny numbers doesn't pan out.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 7/10. Now, -this- is worth putting up a poor period for. Roxis starts out bad too - albeit better than Pamela, since he has Purify and better stats across the board - but, once he gets the Light Mana, Chrona Drive is just sexy. Excellent crowd control, good long-term damage for bosses and he only has to wait one chapter of poor performance instead of about four like Pamela does. Turn-shifting is also cool and gotten at an able time.
Anna Lemouri: 6/10. Anna has spikes and slumps. She does have the worst stat spread of the physical fighters, which sucks, and also the worst damage, but her speed gimmicks and balanced offense are neat enough. GT ID that's attached to solid damage is cool, as is the turn-getting game.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 4/10. Honestly feel he's a bit above LVP. The speed is poor and he starts out egregiously bad, but he picks up faster than Pamela does and his D-Support just fucking rules. The MT offense, once twinked, also has a decent and odd niche: magical damage that doesn't hit magic resistance (though it hits MDef) has some uses, and it was a nice screen clearer after Megingjorz entered the equation. Of course, others do screen clearing better.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 2/10. Wow, suck. GBA male archers seem to never get a break.
Dorothy: 3/10. Also suck. Rebecca with worse stats and supports? Ew.
Sue: 6/10. Mmmmm. The strength really needs work, but she has tons of speed and the mobility is cool. Also like the promotion. Solid.
Shin: 7/10. Trading Sue's speed for notably better strength and a Fir support is good enough for me. Ice affinity also helps him defensively, which could be a problem otherwise.
Klein: 2/10. Wow FE6 prepromo that isn't a Jeigan or Percival - or even an Echidna.
Igrene: 3/10. The stats aren't total trash, I guess, but Snipers are suuuuuuuuuuch a shitty class.
Dayan: 2/10. Wow, the stats are not up to snuff for someone who joins up crazy late -and- at a pathsplit.
Wil: 2/10. Wil's less terrible than Wolt, I guess. Who the hell cares.
Rath: 4/10. He would be like three points higher if he didn't have the sketchy start or was gotten earlier.
Rebecca: 3/10. Rebecca is a complete crapshoot. The starting stats suck and Sniper is the worst class in the game -anyway-. Supports can be decent and she has potential, but why bother?
Louise: 3/10. I honestly don't consider even the auto-A worth deploying Louise, but it makes her at the same level as Rebecca to me.
Neimi: 6/10. Now that's better. Neimi starts badly like Rebecca, but she has: A) the goddamned best support in the game, which starts at a C in the very early map you recruit her in; B) better growths than Rebecca; C) an awesome promotion instead of a shitty one. It balances out to a solid character.
Innes: 4/10. Eh. Don't care about archers much, but he's okay.
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 8.5/10 - Good at all stats, best ST damage at endgame, good MT damage all throughout. Yeah, pretty damn good. Unlimited Blue Works gets him half a point I think (too late for any more than that, and you have to focus on abusing it to get use out of it).
Jessica Philomele: 7/10 - Frail as hell, but timed healing is good for most of the game. Not so much at endgame but it's still decent.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 6.5/10 - Speed gets you initiative in randoms, and that's big. Damage is good too, but too ST oriented unless you dig into the non-SP resources, which are less spammable on randoms. Pretty good overall.
Flay Gunnar: 6/10 - More useful for the defense busting than anything, I found. Raiden Charge is cool and he has good damage due to that, but he's kind of slow.
Pamela Ibis: 7.5/10 - She's not that bad when she joins because Poltergeist has good break damage. Midgame's a bit of a slump, but you can mitigate that with common skills well enough (another reason Jess is better than you'd think). At endgame she gets a good D-Support and Kiss 2 Everyone is good for healing and okay damage at the same time.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 6.5/10 - Purification and Chroma Drive are both really good. Other than that, he doesn't really stand out, but those easily enough.
Anna Lemouri: 7/10 - Speed, line target ID with decent damage, and solid damage with Dancing Chaos Blade. Also works well as a backup mage.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 5/10 - The D-Support is about the only thing he has. Fortunately, it is actually really good. Has more use in the bonus dungeon than the maingame though.
Works.
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 6/10 - Good all-around, but always the first one I felt like replacing. He just doesn't really suit my playstyle.
Jessica Philomele: 7/10 - Spammin' the heals~
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 8/10 - Speedy and that's all that matters.
Flay Gunnar: 5/10 - Not speedy, felt replacable.
Pamela Ibis: 7/10 - Immortal Body was a psychological comfort for most of the game and saved my ass enough times that she basically never left my party. Also worked as my main healer.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 6/10 - Kinda like Vayne.
Anna Lemouri: 7/10 - Speedy, but not quite Nikki.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 4/10 Meh.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 4/10 - For general use as a warm body early on.
Dorothy: 2/10 - No.
Sue: 7/10 - Really rocked.
Shin: 6/10 - Like Sue, but didn't end up as good as a whole.
Klein: Don't remember.
Igrene: 3/10 - Meh, but usable.
Dayan: 2/10 - No.
Wil: 4 - Always end up using him as my main archer and he always seems to get lucky with dodging and survival with 1 HP.
Rath: 3 - Fine, but late.
Rebecca: 5 - Objectively better than Wil, she just always dies.
Louise: 3 - Tried her out, never really impressed me. I suppose this could go up if I used her with Pent more often... >.>;;
Neimi: 6 - The hype seems like she could be higher, but she only gets a 6 on hearsay, my Neimis always end up RNG screwed.
Innes: 5 - FE8 Archers are much more usable than others.
Shinon(9): 1 - Fuck you.
Rolf(9): 5 - Ended up pretty useful, worked well with his brothers who were -always- in my party.
Lethe(9): 6 - Useful out of the box, tapers off, but she was a lifesaver early on. Better than other Laguz.
Astrid(9): No comment. I was playing FE9 wrong and I didn't use Astrid.
Ranulf(9): 3 - Usable at least.
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Due to dumb enemy AI Shinon can decoy enemy after enemy without taking damage. The fact he doesn't counter till endgame is a postive not a negative.
You realise you can have anyone do the same thing by just unequipping their weapon? If this is what you're hyping Shinon for, then Haar, who has substantially more defence and mobility, AND can counter when you actually want him to, must be like a 12/10. Ditto Ike minus the part about move. It's not a two-way street, though, so Shinon can't play the role Ike can of counter-killing some menacing foes so you don't have to deal with them next turn. Not being able to counter is strictly a negative.
Shinon is still decent for player phase offence reasons (fights with Titania for #2 in the GMs at first, then falls off a bit until endgame but is never terrible) but you have many far better options as tanks.
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Volug: 1/10 - Normally I'd rate him a 3 but silly volug hype makes him a 1.
Way to miss the point of the topic.
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 8/10. Yeah, felt like cast MVP to me.
Jessica Philomele: 7/10. Healing, healing, more healing, and some decent magic damage to back it up. Good package, the durability was rarely an issue.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 7.5/10. Breaking my general dislike for .5s here. Nikki is the only one who felt competitive with Vayne for cast MVP for a long stretch. Fast as hell, good damage, love her animal skills.
Flay Gunnar: 5/10. Badass boss killer. Randoms...not so much. As MK randoms were not always jokes, this evens out to average.
Pamela Ibis: 5/10. Eh? Had her niches, was rarely dead weight(har har) but also was rarely nessesary. Average works.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 7/10. Also badass. Card manipulation was a great trick, and once he gets past that slow start he picked up steam and never lost it. Was a team mainstay, along with Vayne/Jess/Nikki.
Anna Lemouri: 4/10. And now for the less good ones. Anna just never had enough...really anything else to do with that speed for me. Fast is nice, but Nikki does that just as well, with the power to back it up.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 3/10. Yeah, the D Support is all he has. Clear LVP to me for all that he's still usable.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 2/10. Bad.
Dorothy: 2/10. Just as bad.
Sue: 6/10. Evasive as hell. Lacks power, which holds her back a bit. Still, Nomad Trooper is a hell of a class.
Shin: 7/10. Yeah, Sue with more power and a bit more raw durability. And still fast enough to double most things, making her speed edge not as big of a deal.
Klein: 2/10. Awful.
Igrene: 4/10. Best sniper, easily. That, uh, isn't saying much.
Dayan: 3/10. Uh, not...horrible...lategame filler? Hardly good, but Swords+Bows is a fairly potent combo in FE6.
Wil: 4/10. Not bad. Useful enough in Lyn mode, passing decent in the main game.
Rath: 4/10. Rejoins waaaaaay too late. Could scrape up a 6 or even a 7 if he came back sooner, but so it goes.
Rebecca: 5/10. About as high as I can give a GBA FE sniper.
Louise: 3/10. I kinda count the Pent support against her, to be honest. If she didn't have that, you could get him an A with someone decent. And it's not hard for her to become a liability if you try to use them together.
Neimi: 6/10. Ranger option saves her.
Innes: 4/10. He's good when you get him, falls off quick though. Still you get him at pretty much exactly the right time for a passing decent pre-promo to shine for a bit. Still, uh, sniper. Only so high he can get.
Shinon(9): 1/10. Horrible unit, horrible character.
Rolf(9): 4/10. Came out pretty beastly for me once, then kinda lame another time. Such is the RNG. Still limited by the whole "Range 2 only" thing, though.
Lethe(9): 5/10. Usable, if not good.
Astrid(9): 8/10. Yeah, she's great. Give her a point for bringing that lovely Knight Ward to the table as well.
Ranulf(9): 3/10. Really wishes he were earlier, or came with his own Demi Band or something.
Leonardo: 3/10. Ugh. Just...bad. Can't be counted on to kill pretty much anything that doesn't fly without his special bow.
Volug: 9/10. Normally I'd rate him a 7, but silly Volug anti-hype makes him a 9.
Nailah: 9/10. Laguz Royal. Around for some parts you REALLY want that smashing power, too.
Lethe(10): 3/10. Eh? Don't remember doing much with her.
Astrid(10): 1/10. -_-
Shinon(10): 9/10. Hoooooly shit did he get better. Now he's actually got the worth to back up his ego. <_<
Rolf(10): Abstain. Didn't use him enough to rate him. He got some bad levels early and I dropped him since I had Shinon kicking ass anyway.
Lyre: 1/10. Yeah, just bad. Really, really bad.
Ranulf(10): 6/10. Got some use out of him. Not great, but hardly bad. Little above average works.
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Mana Khemia
Vayne Aurelius: 7/10 - Never bad, always has SOME use, and gets a point for scanning, which is twenty different kinds of sexy.
Jessica Philomele: 7/10 - Would be a 5, but god damn that healing. So many ways to heal, too. Just... damn.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 3/10 - Ditched her at the first available moment. Never got that much use out of speed; spent most of my time either getting ambushed, or speed-twinking, or, if mid-battle, I was basically just manipulating the turn orders so badly that... yeah. And besides, Anna is so much better at the ST damage.
Flay Gunnar: 8/10 - Lots of 'tough' randoms, and a decent amount of job enemies/bosses are weak to lightning, so... Raiden Charge whateverthesuperattackiscalled GO! And things die before him. Also: Breaks defenses to shreds, gets around physical blocking VIA Raiden Charge, etc. Flay Smash. And Flay Smash Hard. (Especially with those shuriken, for large amounts of timed damage that would hold the Charge even if it ran out, so long as they were used while you had it)
Pamela Ibis: 6/10 - Warm body, (3 points for Immortal Warm Body), elemental stuff, was never actually worried about her being low on health or SP because she can choose whichever she wants for her attacks (which reminds me, +1 for the health manipulation), and she's not amazing, but she's solid enough at whatever you need. Kinda like a Vayne -, with different niche than scan.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 9.5/10 - Slow start? What are you people talking about? Purify is the sexiness of the gods. He starts out at a 7.5 for me purely because of that, goes up 1.5 for massive recurring magical damage, and another .5 for so much turn manipulation. Maybe... 5% more SP, or if he were just slightly more durable, and he'd be a 10 for me. As is, he's kinda frail, and he runs out of SP rather quickly, which makes him a mainstay in my back bench.
Anna Lemouri: 9/10 - Randoms are whatever, and she's a boss killer through and through. Her stats are just fine to do what needs to be done. And that is to sit in the back, come in, and spend less than a turn slot (because she essentially creates a new one of her own) pouring out damage. Then she lets somebody else come in as she heals her SP reserves. Screw everything else, she has one niche, and she is DAMN good at it. (Also plays to my playstyle, so)
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 1/10 - Only used him for a couple of battles because, well, why not? I found out why not.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats, and Wolves
Wil: 5/10 - 4/10, but gets a point for being physical ranged damage and whatnot in Lyn mode.
Rath: 3/10 - Late start, and his levels are too high in Lyn Mode to pump him in anticipation of the late start.
Rebecca: 4/10 - FE7 Archer.
Louise: --/10 - Never used her.
Neimi: 6/10 - Solid enough, but too many better options, I found.
Innes: 3/10 - Uhh... warm body? Kinda? I want to give him points for being super accurate, but... you're almost guaranteed to be getting him at a point where most of your team isn't missing anyway.
Shinon(9): 1/10 - Fuck. You. Too.
Rolf(9): --/10
Lethe(9): 5/10 - Decent enough.
Astrid(9): --/10
Ranulf(9): --/10 - You got to use him? When?
Leonardo: 2/10 - Ugh. Just... ugh.
Volug: 9/10 - Solid, never NOT solid.
Nailah: 9/10 - Is Nailah
Lethe(10): 1/10
Astrid(10): 1/10 - I even tried to use her. And got an RNG-blessed Astrid. But... she's just so... awful. She couldn't do anything, ever. At all. Ugh.
Shinon(10): --/10
Rolf(10): 9/10 - Solid. So very, very solid.
Lyre: 0/10
Ranulf(10): 7/10 - Quite solid when you get him, tapers off towards the end, and pre-endgame, he's still able to hold his own, so...
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Not being able to counter is strictly a negative.
I don't like faffing about with unequiping so as Shinon can kill on his turn while not absorbing xp on the enemies he fits the role perfectly so its strictly a postive to me in regards to him. Ike/Haar/Fiona/Volug cannot do this.
You realise you can have anyone do the same thing by just unequipping their weapon? If this is what you're hyping Shinon for, then Haar, who has substantially more defence and mobility, AND can counter when you actually want him to, must be like a 12/10.
9.5/10. Haar smashes the game but a lightening weakness that means trouble at times and him sucking for me against the final boss hold him from a perfect score. I rate Shinon higher because he fought just as good, never took any real amount of damage from enemies excluding the bosses at the end (and he took the least) and finally he actually worked against the final boss while Haar did not for me. If I rate Shinon a 10 its because he fought well enough to deserve such a score not due to anything else.
Way to miss the point of the topic.
Looking at it now I was being a bit of a petty twat so for that I apologise. I would also change it to a 3 but Gatewalker has already fixed it.
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Volug: 9/10. Normally I'd rate him a 7, but silly Volug anti-hype makes him a 9.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Anyways, onto the actual rankings
Mana Khemia
Vayne Aurelius: 7/10. Reasonably solid. Good crowd control and damage options yeah. A Support is kinda lame. D Support isn't great but it can be used against physicals to save your other supports from use (like Muppy/Pamela).
Jessica Philomele: 6/10. Very weak early on. But timed healing keeps her up. Once you start getting better and better skills and the healing is less needed, Jess' damage doesn't improve, but C.Skills keep her in the running and her D. support is pretty awesome.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 7.5/10. Probably game best PC? I haven't used her all that much, but yeah, speed and damage. That's probably good enough.
Flay Gunnar: 6.5/10. Pretty beastly against bosses, what, with his A support and damage. Speed's not that great for randoms though.
Pamela Ibis: 5/10. Yeah. Nothing special early on (in fact, kinda weak). Later on though, she gets some hilarious niches (Manipulating her own HP for No Bullying! and Seeker) and the D support makes her very worthwhile to keep on the backline to save your Jess D Support. Immortal Body feels kinda pointless, but could serve use I suppose. Can use C.Skills as damage options keeps her somewhat afloat during the worth lag periods.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 7/10. I want to give him higher, but laggy start prevents me from doing that :|. C.Skills means he always has a back up damage option and his skillset has got some good niche options (Purifying and Retraction are both great). Once he gets the Light Mana, his damage starts picking up. To make up for this...his supports just flat out suck (lulz at his D support in particular). 7 is reflective I guess.
Anna Lemouri: 5/10. Support Options keeps her in the running. Instantly taking a turn whether on offense or defense is very nice. Her damage needs some work since she lacks it without blowing chunks and chunks of SP, and even then, it doesn't beat the big guns like Flay or Vayne. Still, decent though.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 3/10. Bad, but best D support in game. That's better than what some of the FE characters below can say about themselves (hi Shinon9)
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 2/10. lolWolt
Dorothy: 3/10. Better than Wolt, but not exactly top tier material either.
Sue: 6/10. Pretty good. Strength could be a problem and IS a problem early on against armors.
Shin: 7/10. Gives up some speed for more strength. Noticable winning trade in his favour since his base speed and growth aren't sucky. Fir support as a bonus to boot.
Klein: 1/10. lolKlein
Igrene: 3/10. Filler, but is an GBA Archer Filler. So...not that good, but better than Klein (insert more lulz for Klein)
Dayan: 2.5/10. He's got a horse! And like no strength whatsoever. But he can kinda scratch Wyverns! That's something.
Wil: 3/10. Pretty bad. Wil has some strength and Lyn mode running for him though. If he gets lucky with speed, you may consider deploying him. Good support options to boot. Too bad about being stuck as a Sniper and generally won't get said speed.
Rath: 4.5/10. Rath's worth giving a shot. Nomadic mount makes Desert less painful on him and gaining 1 range after promo makes him the superior choice here if you must have a bow user not named Lyn. Still, lame join time.
Rebecca: 3/10. Start is lame. Once she gets going is better, but isn't fundamentally doing that much better (still lolArcher promo and no 1 range here)
Louise: 4/10. Well Auto A with Pent, if nothing else. And Pent's likely being deployed. HP is lame, but isn't terrible.
Neimi: 6.5/10. Probably the best GBA Archer you're going to get. Better promotion options, best support out of the gate, and even though start is weakish, it's still somewhat better than Becca's. Yeah.
Innes: 4/10. I've had Innes turn out pretty damn solid everytime. He still can't beat average though because lolArcherpromotions not in FE10. At least he supports with some quality units (Vanessa, Eirika, Tana) so you can use him as a ring supporter at worst.
Shinon(9): 0.5/10. Man, if you EVER needed an example of where bases > growths, this is it. Shinon9 is the equivalent of KARLA more or less, except he exists early on and can do...something. He can't even properly chip due to crit, but being there means he does something relevant especially since early on, everyone is kinda weak. So his crap bases don't stand out as badly. Fast forward to Chapter 21...and Jesus Christ, now you realize those bases are just shitty. It doesn't matter that he has MONSTER growths. He's so bad when he finally rejoins, it takes a ton of effort just so his growths will eventually get him to...averagish and stuck to a pretty bad class. gj? gj. Or, in the words of the elf: lolololololololololololololololololololololololol
Rolf(9): 1/10. Uh...he's better than Shinon because when he joins, you can still try to use him and he will turn out better than Shinon! Word. Also you need him to recruit Shinon! Double Word. Like the equivalent of the Karla analogy, is essentially Bartre, but without Bartre's good stuff, like hitting power early on and HP. This is the way.
Lethe(9): 6/10. Jeigan with a noticably quick transform time. Eventually drops off and FE9 non-royal Laguz issues hold her back though.
Astrid(9): 7.5/10. Somewhat slow to start, but pretty destructive once she gets going, which honestly doesn't take long. Being mounted of course makes her a very solid choice to invest in. IIRC, supports are somewhat weak and no 1 range countering until promote hold her back from the other better pallies though.
Ranulf(9): 2/10. I can't really find a reason to use Ranulf9, like ever. He's basically Lethe when Lethe has already fallen off. On the situation you are using Lethe, she's probably better than him anyway. Usable filler I guess. But then again, FE9 Laguz issues.
Leonardo: 3.5/10. Yeah. Luggy bow basically saves his sorry ass. He would be like a 1.5 barring that I think? That weapon is just too good.
Volug: 9.5/10. *eyes Rozalia*. Oh well. This has been discussed to death. And I personally think there is something wrong if you really believe EDWARD is better than Volug. But whatevs. For those of you that missed it: Most durable member of the DB, never gets bad, always solid, can even fill in as a good part 4 choice, Earth affinity and is around on those really nasty missions. I would argue Haar being better, but Volug is certainly one of the best units you will get. End of story.
Nailah: 9/10. *checks what he gave Naesala*. Yeah, 9 feels around right. I would argue on some level, she might be even better than Tibarn, but...the score differences would be like tenths of a difference.
Lethe(10): 4/10. Potential. Worthwhile potential. You have better units, but it won't hurt you to use her at least.
Astrid(10): 1/10. lulz. At least she can take pot shots and has movement. The sad thing is, you can't unequip that Paragon until Part 3, so you have to make sure she doesn't kick the bucket before then, else you lose a Paragon :|. Thankfully, 2E is the only chapter in question here, but 2E has Elincia and Haar as clutch. So, no score detraction here.
Shinon(10): 7.5/10. Shinon on crack. Bases are so much better. His growths are still good in some key areas (45 Def, 60ish for speed? Hell yes). Only thing is his somewhat lacking strength. Deadweight on counter phase skews him though and prevents him from being higher. Unless he wants to use lolcrossbows. Shame for that. If he actually had 1 range, he would probably be around Mia level. Tied for 5th best of the core GMs with Oscar I feel.
Rolf(10): 6.5/10. Feels weird at first, but if you take a closer look, their differences aren't as profound as they seem. Shinon's high starting level is somewhat double edged because those enemies he kills early on won't give him good EXP gains. Enter Rolf, who's gaining more EXPs, and his own growths are pretty solid. Strength being wtf. Durability could use work, but they would only become relevant against 2-range weapons, and he shouldn't be getting attacked that often anyway. So yeah, maybe some docking of points there, and its pretty minor. He is worse than Shinon though, since if his speed tanks (which could happen), it is MUCH harder to fix than Shinon's strength. Shinon can go crit forges, strength forges and supports to remedy it. At worst later on, he has an Occult. Faster speed means he gets more chances for it to proc. If Rolf's speed tanks, that's it. Other than getting him more levels or blowing a speedwings on him. And there are two other PCs who would love the Speedwings (Titania/Haar), so that's a no go at all. Think...that's enough for a full point to me today. Could easily see him being a 7/10 PC though.
Lyre: 0.5/10. She only gets 0.5 for existing. Barring that lolz cat transformation problems + speed equivalent to Kyza's with like half the defense and strength.
Ranulf(10): 6/10. Mmm...yeah. Cat transformations sink him. Shame, because he's pretty solid otherwise in Part 4, and is pretty clutch in Part 3.
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Proof that CTs are far out is when they rate Pamela higher than Tals, Roxis higher than Snows and Muppy higher than OKs~
-
Blah blah blah too many bonus dungeons running to remember normal playthroughs well enough.
Vayne Aurelius: 7/10: Really good damage for normal. Blocking had decent use in Bonus.
Jessica Philomele: 7/10: Healing is good for normal. Can actually do damage with normal attacks in Bonus. Roxis probably would have been a better choice for Boss smashing though.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 8/10: SPEED! Gets you the first turn which really matters. Hits decently hard enough too.
Flay Gunnar: 7/10:
Pamela Ibis: 3/10: Becomes useful late. HP twinking for bonus is too slow.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 8/10: Controls everything. Probably better than Jess in Bonus dungeon but generally not worth it until the point I could smash bosses before they got a turn even with Jess.
Anna Lemouri: 10/10: Apparently I never had the problem the rest of you had. Also complete smash bonus dungeon.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 3/10: All three points for D-Defense. Utter rubbish any other way.
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 7.5/10. Analyze is nice, and he covers his bases well without standing out. Half a point for Variable Attack or whatever.
Jessica Philomele: 7/10. Really fails early game where she's like the frailest thing ever with such limited healing, becomes pretty good later on.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: 8/10. Argh, don't like her, but I'll admit she's good.
Flay Gunnar: 6/10. Boss fighter, not much else.
Pamela Ibis: 3/10. Lots of MP for healing, but that's about the only use I got out of her.
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 8/10. Mage Flay for bosses, just has much better applications for randoms.
Anna Lemouri: 6/10. Opposite of Flay; good for randoms, not much for bosses.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 4/10. Not as bad as people are making him out to be, but he's certainly unimpressive.
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 3/10. Kind of sucks.
Dorothy: 3/10. Technically better, but not enough to get a better rating, and Wolt has the whole "exists as an extra PC when you have nothing else" at least.
Sue: 6/10. Actually good!
Shin: 7/10. Better offense and doesn't require being raised from level 1, guess this works for an extra point.
Klein: 2/10. No.
Igrene: 4/10. Passable filler.
Dayan: 3/10. Not horrible by FE6 Prepromo standards! ...amazing how this only earns you a 3/10.
Wil: 3/10. Only Archer in Lyn mode until Rath joins unfortunately doesn't count for too much, otherwise unimpressive the entire way through.
Rath: 6/10. Solid, but usability holds him back.
Rebecca: 5/10. Used her once, honestly was unimpressed before premotion, and afterwords, she's held back by a shitty class.
Louise: 4/10. Auto Pent Support is nice, stats aren't QUITE horrible enough to make her unusable too.
Neimi: 7/10. Rebecca, except she promotes into something actually good.
Innes: 4/10. Louise+ in a game with better competition.
Shinon(9): 2/10. Jeigan whose uses come in ways you DON'T want from Jeigans, fails to exist, then a bullshit recruitment all for...a low stat Prepromo who with his amazing growths still manages to struggle with characters at similar level.
Rolf(9): 3/10. Ends up the same as SHinon in the end, only can be ACTUALLY USED throughout. Triangle Attack with *2* Good PCs doesn't hurt.
Lethe(9): 3/10. Prepromo substitute for points in the game, helps out in the desert due to mobility too. Turn 1 transformation allows for some gimmick uses with Demi Band if you REALLY wanted.
Astrid(9): 7/10. Paragon is hax, Paladins are Hax! If she were something OTHER than a Bow Knight, she'd be higher.
Ranulf(9): 4/10. Objectively better than Lethe, but joins later and with just as much reason to use, so eh...yeah, point higher works.
Leonardo: 4/10. Lughnasadh is cool, and he's an extra PC when your options are limited. Otherwise, he's pretty bad.
Volug: 8/10. I'm not quite in agreement as to him being the BEST THING EVAR!!! But I won't deny he's good when it counts.
Nailah: 8/10. SCORE SUBJECT TO CHANGE BASED ON WHAT I GAVE CAINEGHIS/GIFFCA (too lazy to look up); that said, Laguz Royal awesomeness kicking in! More availability than Caineghis offsets the technical inferiority. Absolutely saves your ass in Part 1 too, for all that you have another Auto Win PC during that section.
Lethe(10): 4/10. Passable during part 2, but not stand out like Mordecai, can actually end up non-fail. However, Cat holds her back, and she's still got moments of unimpressiveness.
Astrid(10): 2/10. Egads what happened to you in this game?
Shinon(10): 7.5/10. Ok, now THIS is what we're talking about. Well rounded stats, Marksmen aren't a total joke like Snipers were in the past, and the Double Bow gives a good reason to use him end game. Not the greatest thing ever, but still very solid.
Rolf(10): 7/10. An actual decent alternative to Shinon, but Shinon's level edge feels like enough to give him half a point even if Rolf is better end game; still, wow, talk about a dramatic improvement between these two.
Lyre: 1/10. See, Lethe has issues despite not being underleveled, and has to work those away over time. Lyre? She compounds those issues to a greater level, turning the whole project thing from "pain in the ass" to "Completely not worth it at all." And worst part is, she doesn't really end up better than Lethe anyway.
Ranulf(10): 6/10. Hey look, a cat with ACTUAL STATS and level. Actually does a good job of holding his own. However, being forced into a Cat means he has bad transformation rates and one of the worst Laguz Weapons (especially since he starts with only an A.) This holds him back some, albeit he's still decent.
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Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: 7.19
Jessica Philomele: 6.64
Nicole "Nikki" Mimi Tithel: 6.74
Flay Gunnar: 6.30
Pamela Ibis: 5.00
Roxis Rosenkrantz: 7.47
Anna Lemouri: 6.44
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: 4.13
Fire Emblem Archers, Cats and Wolves:
Wolt: 2.61
Dorothy: 2.94
Sue: 6.40
Shin: 6.63
Klein: 1.64
Igrene: 3.25
Dayan: 2.44
Wil: 3.12
Rath: 4.46
Rebecca: 4.93
Louise: 3.63
Neimi: 6.64
Innes: 3.54
Shinon(9): 1.88
Rolf(9): 3.59
Lethe(9): 4.44
Astrid(9): 7.69
Ranulf(9): 3.78
Leonardo: 3.39
Volug: 7.21
Nailah: 8.63
Lethe(10): 3.40
Astrid(10): 1.20
Shinon(10): 7.78
Rolf(10): 6.94
Lyre: 1.28
Ranulf(10): 6.44
Best Rating of this session: Nailah w/ 8.64
Worst Rating of this session: Astrid (10) w/ 1.20
I think I should note that please do NOT rate with reflection of others. As in, I don't want to see any of this "Would give him x amount, but hype makes me give him y!" crap. That is defeating the purpose of the topic. If you think someone deserves something, give it to them.
ANYWAY, moving on, and I swear the game chosen with this set was not intended, it just happens to work really well thematically, which makes it all the more better!
Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse:
Aika:
Drachma:
Fina:
Gilder:
Enrique:
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany:
Tate:
Miredy:
Zeiss:
Yunno:
Florina:
Fiora:
Heath:
Farina:
Vaida:
Vanessa:
Tana:
Cormag:
Syrene:
Marcia(9):
Jill(9):
Janaff(9):
Tanith(9):
Ulki(9):
Haar(9):
Tibarn(9):
Jill(10):
Marcia(10):
Haar(10):
Janaff(10):
Ulki(10):
Sigrun:
Tanith(10):
Tibarn(10):
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Vanessa: Abstain~
Tana: 7.5/10 - Solid, and evaded most attacks, although not quite enough to be reliable, unfortunately. Still, consistently doubles and does enough damage to kill generally.
Cormag: 9.5/10 - Christ. I don't know if I was seriously RNG-blessed here, but this guy was my go-to unit who wasn't Ephraim. Need someone to tank a hit? Cormag. Need someone strong to kill stuff? Cormag. Add in the flying, which was pretty much necessary on that damn desert stage and... seriously, the only thing stopping him from reaching 10 is that he had barely average speed.
Syrene: 4/10. Ehh. Not too terrible overall, but she came way too late at a stage where everyone in the party was much better than her.
Marcia(9): 6/10 - Yes, I'm likely to get shot for this one, but she always starts waaay too frail for me, can't take hits at all and ends up being benched after 3-4 chapters. Work her past that and she's fine.
Jill(9): 8/10 - Hard one to judge here. My first run, she was slow, kept failing to kill, couldn't evade and had low HP and Res. My second run, she.. well, destroyed stuff. Think she ended up 2nd on kills at end-game. So subject to RNG, apparently, but more likely to be good than bad, I think.
Janaff(9): 6/10 - Ehh. Nothing amazing, but he's decently fast and evasive, which is enough to survive. Can't really kill much, and he hates archers, but decent as a slot-filler.
Tanith(9): 6.5/10 - Marcia Mk.2. Doesn't die as easily, doesn't kill as well. Comes later, so less subject to being screwed over by RNG, which gains her the extra 0.5 over Marcia.
Ulki(9): 5/10 - Like Janaff, but not as fast, so doesn't survive as well.
Haar(9): 10/10 - And this is why Jill didn't get #1 on kills in that second run. Yes, despite him joining that late. What can I say? This guy tears shit apart. He doubled most enemies, didn't take damage from those he didn't, and barely took any damage from fucking Generals.
Tibarn(9): 7/10 - Like every other Laguz royal in FE9. Tears shit apart, probably my personal favourite of the three for usability, but... one stage. (No, I don't give him credit for his 'Ally' appearances)
Jill(10): 6/10 - Gains a point for DB usability, but... ;_; She's so average now. I can't see any real reason to use Jill at endgame, at least.
Marcia(10): Abstain~
Haar(10): 9/10 - Not quite as good as FE9, but that just means he doesn't kill stuff as quickly. Still doesn't die, still tears shit up, but very rarely doubles and is doubled a fair bit. Not that that means much if you're only taking 1-2 damage.
Janaff(10): Abstain~
Ulki(10): Abstain~
Sigrun: Abstain~
Tanith(10): Abstain~
Tibarn(10): 10/10 - Laguz Royal. Enough said, really.
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Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse:- 8.5/10. Your best damage dealer by FAR in game.
Aika: 8/10. Delta shield+useful skillset.
Drachma: 5/10. Supertank!
Fina: 3/10. Mage in a game where magic is bad. Her skillset has a few uses.
Gilder: 3/10. Aura of Denial has uses, but that is it. Good stats are largely wasted on a bad skillset.
Enrique: 7/10. All seven points for Justice Shield.
Florina: 7/10. Good supports, joins early. Good choice for a con boosting item.
Fiora: 7/10. Doesn't join as early as Florina, but probably better overall.
Heath: 3.5/10. Wrong build for FE7.
Farina: 3/10. Project on Hector mode only. Not worth it.
Vaida: 2/10. Bad.
Vanessa: 6/10. HP is trashy but the stats/movement are good.
Tana: 8.5/10. Uber flier alert.
Cormag: 4/10.Felt usable, but never bothered myself.
Syrene: 1/10. No.
Marcia(9): 7/10. Fuck you FE9 RNG, just fuck you.
Jill(9): 7.5/10. Joins underleveled. So what? She's tanky, mobile, and you get a full guard fairly early on to take care of her one weakness. Has a fantastic support with Mist as well.
Janaff(9): Didn't use.
Tanith(9): 5/10. Looked like a solid prepromo.
Ulki(9): Didn't use.
Haar(9): 3/10. Blah.
Tibarn(9): Will tell you when I get that far.
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Florina: 8/10
Fiora: 8/10
Heath: 3/10.
Farina: 4/10. Availability issues. Great PC though.
Vaida: 4/10. Decent enough filler.
Vanessa: 8/10.
Tana: 9.5/10
Cormag: 6/10
Syrene: 1/10. lol
Marcia(9): 8.5/10
Jill(9): 7.5/10
Janaff(9): 2/10.
Tanith(9): 6/10. Passable.
Ulki(9): 2/10. meh
Haar(9): 4.5/10. Not great.
Tibarn(9): 6/10. Owns the final boss in HM.
Jill(10): 7/10. Less good in this game, but still quite useful.
Marcia(10): 7.5/10. Less good in this game, but still quite useful.
Haar(10): 9/10. TBLAR.
Janaff(10): 8/10. Gooood.
Ulki(10): 8/10. Tank.
Sigrun: 3/10.
Tanith(10): 3/10.
Tibarn(10): 7/10. Better availability than in FE9, but still not around too much.
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Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: Not really enamoured with pegasus knights, to be honest, FE6's in particular. Low Con class that's stuck with lances before promotion gives them issues early, and the starting evade impresses no one, especially given how early FE tends to be axe-happy. Thany is pretty much typical, but at least FE6 axes blow, so she's got that going for her. 3.5/10
Tate: Oh Tate. She joins at Lv8 with roughly the same stats as Thany did at Lv1, and her growths are not noteably better. This is not a good thing. 1/10
Miredy: Miledy puts every other flier in the game to shame. Tanky, good Str/Spd combo, flier utility. Only real flaw is bad Res even by FE6 standards. 7.5/10
Zeiss: Eh, late-joining project. Strength is wonderful but he starts with what 8 Spd? Yeah no. 1.5/10
Yunno: Trash. 0.5/10
Florina: Still not fond, but lances being better/fast Lyn support make her a more solid option than anything FE6 had to offer in the peg knight department. 5/10
Fiora: Florina trading offense and evasion for more concrete durability. *shrug* Same score works, I guess. 5/10
Heath: Fails to impress on most fronts. 3/10
Farina: Ugh. Having to pay money out of pocket bothers me much more than having to use a stupidly expensive promotion item. Paying money out of pocket for a late-ish project character who doesn't even turn out that special? Fuck you. Oh well, it's not as if iron weapons don't suffice for the vast majority of the game so I can't really be too harsh. 2/10
Vaida: Useable filler at worst. 3/10
Vanessa: Yo dawg I heard you like anima supports so we put a bunch of characters with anima supports in your game so you can anima support while you anima support. Actually decently solid outside that. 6.5/10
Tana: I don't really see where the Tana hype comes from but she's still good. 7/10
Cormag: Eh, useable at least. 4/10
Syrene: Trash. 0.5/10
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Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6/10. Fits a pretty good stat niche, being about the only one who can effectively kill mages without being slapped in return, and your only flyer for ages, then your only good flyer for a bit longer.
Tate: 2/10. What Random said. Somehow isn't the worst pegasus knight in the game!
Miredy: 8.5/10. Smash all faces with Strength/Speed/Def/flight. Magical tanking/crit tanking/supports could be better.
Zeiss: 3/10. Yeah, probably just not worth it.
Yunno: 1/10. lulz.
Florina: 8/10. Flies, supports give her loads of Strength to effectively maintain her good AS.
Fiora: 7/10. See above, but less evade and the supports are less good, which isn't worth a bit more concrete.
Heath: 3/10. Yeah, just kinda unimpressive.
Farina: 2/10. 20k gold + underlevelled is hard to overcome. Too bad, her stats are great when she does.
Vaida: 4/10. Usable out of the box for the rest of the game, and flight is a good niche for one such.
Vanessa: 7/10. Anima support with Lute helps her a lot, yeah. She's okay before then, not your worst lance user when she joins!
Tana: 8.5/10. Hype is pretty simple, she has incredible scores in Strength/Speed/Luck so she dodges and kills things better than almost anyone else, and supports both lords (who actually kinda need supports). Starts a little weak, especially in Eph's path, but FE8 exp formula favours underlevelled people a lot.
Cormag: 5.5/10. Varies quite a bit by path. On Eph's path he joins only barely after Tana and probably has better stats at first, though is surpassed. On Eirika's he just looks kinda bad. Just wish he had more luck and res, mostly.
Syrene: 1/10. lulz
Marcia(9): 8/10. Pretty solid past a shaky start, attack/speed/flight/canto are great, def isn't bad, though she doesn't have the avoid of some earlier pegs.
Jill(9): 8.5/10. Again, start could be better, but otherwise, watch out. Is Miredy.
Janaff(9): 2/10. Hawks in FE9 are terrible, godawful offence and only okay duraility and by this point you have three other terrific fliers.
Tanith(9): 8/10. And here's one. Earth supports mean hax evade, the speed is great, the base level makes up for most of her stat flaws otherwise. Reinforce is an interesting option at least.
Ulki(9): 2/10. See Janaff. I did an in-depth analysis on which was more incompetent once but I can't remember who it was, so they get the same score.
Haar(9): 4.5/10. Mobile with good defence and flight. Isn't too happy once Geoffrey joins but otherwise is a decent lategame tank pickup. Too bad about the lack of doubling.
Tibarn(9): 7/10.
Jill(10): 8.5/10. Only person in the DB with flight, and might as well be the only one with Canto. Great speed. Not perfect, but definitely one of the DB's best, and stays ruling in part 4 (desert!) and endgame (great speed + Urvan!).
Marcia(10): 7/10. Definitely took a hit, but still a solid enough PC.
Haar(10): 9.5/10. It's Haar. You all know why.
Janaff(10): 8.5/10. Hawks are so ridiculous in this game. They join midgame and you can use them at endgame without giving them a drop of exp (though they wouldn't be great then), so... yeah. Flight + shove/canto combo + godly stats in general but especially the 60 HP + 34 speed (and hence Tear rate) midgame = um wow.
Ulki(10): 8.5/10. See Janaff. He's more durable than most characters when he's UNTRANSFORMED thanks to Vigilance.
Sigrun: 3/10. Has some use because you can promote her quickly and fliers rule on the bridge and desert.
Tanith(10): 3/10. Sigrun with less shortterm but more longterm potential. It balances.
Tibarn(10): 8.5/10. Laguz royal.
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Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6/10. In spite of the epic Strength, she has a pretty neat niche: your only competent flier for ages, and she starts with great stats. If you care, her affinity also helps with the offensive woes. Still, she gets outshone later, but not a bad PC by any means: flying in FE is such a boon, and Thany being as fast as she is doesn't hurt either.
Tate: 2/10. Jesus christ, those starting stats. And her growth doesn't befit a Peg. Knight enough either (what's with that Luck?), neither does the affinity.
Miredy: 8.5/10. Amazing offense and mobility. Against arrows and magic, she could stand to be better, but watch out if you're a physicaller and/or squishy otherwise. Would be even crazier if she didn't ram into her caps earlyish, but I'll take what I can get.
Zeiss: 3/10. Too late and underlevelled to be worth it.
Yuuno: 1/10. lulz.
Florina: 8.5/10. I love Peg. Knights, and Florina is just great as far as they go. Solid starting stats, tons of time to grow, good growths and the game's best support -and- a great affinity to keep her offense always up to date. The Con is a problem, but supports help mitigate the problem with Florina needing to wear light weaponry.
Fiora: 7/10. Joins quite a bit later than Florina and doesn't have the excellence in supports. Lower evade also doesn't help much, but it's still a Peg with good stats.
Heath: 3/10. He impresses me none.
Farina: 2/10. No. Too bad about the shoddy start+Hector Mode-only+WHAT 20K TO RECRUIT, Farina has a great stat spread and some absolutely beautiful supports due to affinity (Anima+Light = doughnuts. And Florina is a wonderful PC to begin with). EDIT: AND I WOULD'VE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU MEDDLING CIATOS AND THAT WHIP
Vaida: 3/10. So not fond of that speed. Vaida has a bit of a niche, but it's one I would never bother with unless I completely changed around the way I play.
Vanessa: 7/10. The supports are just hax, and she still has good stats besides that. Strength's shaky, but Anima supports help that some. Also, seriously, Lute support is total hax.
Tana: 9/10. Florina after snorting a full line of crack still sounds right. She does start a bit underlevelled, but those starting stats are positively -insane- for a L4 character and she catches up easily. Not to mention supporting the Lords.
Cormag: 5/10. I guess.
Syrene: 1/10. EDIT: Burping Elfboy - even because what makes Syrene any better than Yuuno in practice?
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Hector Mode only actually.
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Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 8/10. Good speed, good equips, good cost effective attacks, all add up to him being your real damage dealer.
Aika: 9/10. Lambda Burst does a number on randoms, and she outruns all of them. Delta Shield's use in the final boss battles, and against some of the more retarded randoms (*glares at South Sea*) gives her an extra bump.
Drachma: 6/10. Spirit Charge is pretty nifty (I usually make Drachma my fourth) but the high cost techs and terrible speed are troublesome, and the speed doubly means his ludicrous HP means a lot less.
Fina: 4/10. Her affinity for Silver spells means she actually learns the second revive spell before you can buy the equivelent items. That's a good thing. And her techs have some niche use. But... her real money is meant to be magic, and ultimately items render magic moot in this game, getting you the same effect (for damage, healing, AND buffs) without the SP cost. Fina's HP and middling speed don't exactly help her.
Gilder: 5/10. He's pretty good when he's forced (good AoE on Gunslinger) but... he'd never take the fourth slot from Drachma or Enrique, so he's only so good ultimately.
Enrique: 6/10. Justice Shield (or whatever) is pretty badass, and the theoretical Justice+Delta combo is craziness. That said, 4 SP limits your ability to store up offense, and it's really the only thing going for him overall, so just a bit above average I think.
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 5/10. Serviceable but no more.
Tate: 2/10. *stab* Stupid AI.
Miredy: 7/10. A proper flier. Starts slow though, so despite being #2 in the endgame there was some definite arhgleness before then.
Zeiss: 3/10. Just way, way too late for my tastes.
Yunno: 2/10. No.
Florina: 7/10. Solid. I'd complain about early babying except... Lyn mode really takes the bite out of that. So.
Fiora: 7/10. Generally better than Florina, but not enough to overcome the extra work you have to put into her. So more or less even.
Heath: 4/10. Eh.
Farina: 3/10. Hector only. Some stupid late chapter (like, after Rath I think). 25k. God, I seem to recall she even joins RIGHT after a major shopping map, so you HAVE to know she's coming first.
Vaida: 3/10. Eh.
Vanessa: 6/10. 'salright.
Tana: 9/10. The game really doesn't know how to deal with Ephraim/Tana ripping its face off.
Cormag:6/10. Works.
Syrene: 2/10. Not-works.
Marcia(9): 7/10. Quite solid.
Jill(9): 6/10. I seem to recall just not liking her over Marcia and I don't know why, but I'll roll with it.
Janaff(9): 2/10.
Tanith(9): 6/10.
Ulki(9): 2/10.
Haar(9): 4/10. Fillery.
Tibarn(9): 7/10.
Jill(10): 8/10. Badass. Arguably the best human character I think.
Marcia(10): 6/10. Feels weak at the start, though that's normal for Peg knights.. just, FE10 is harder than normal too.
Haar(10): 8/10. See Jill. Starts off much more badass, but Jill has the Dawn Brigade making her look better while she catches up.
Janaff(10): 5/10. Those support skills are awesome and make them less dead-weighty when they're untransformed. So, servicable.
Ulki(10): 5/10.
Sigrun: 4/10. meh.
Tanith(10): 4/10. She got worse I think.
Tibarn(10): 9/10. Sexy.
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Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 8/10
Aika: 8/10
Drachma: 6/10
Fina: 6/10
Gilder: 6/10
Enrique: 6/10
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany:
Tate:
Miredy:
Zeiss:
Yunno:
Florina: 8/10
Fiora: 5/10
Heath: 3/10
Farina:
Vaida: 2/10
Vanessa: 5/10
Tana: 8.5/10
Cormag: 5/10
Syrene: 4/10
Marcia(9): 9/10
Jill(9): 8/10
Janaff(9): 2/10
Tanith(9): 7/10
Ulki(9): 2/10
Haar(9): 7.5/10
Tibarn(9):
Jill(10): 7/10
Marcia(10): 7/10
Haar(10): 8.5/10
Janaff(10): 6/10
Ulki(10): 6/10
Sigrun: 6.5/10
Tanith(10): 5/10
Tibarn(10): 8/10
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Vyse: 4/10 - The more I think about it, the more I feel like he's not that great. His skills are all about damage - Futlass Curry, Wirate's Prath, Sain of Rwords...and then Skull Shield and Counterstrike are kind of useless. Decent stats, but...yeah. If I could replace him, I would. As is, though, he's useful for guaranteeing good SP and otherwise consistent damage.
Aika: 9.2/10 - Yeah. Speed, SP skills are good, can even make her magic good too. Either way, smashes randoms, Delta Shield smashes bosses, SP is usually good. Nice overall.
Drachma: 6/10 - This is the thing with the guys - they are all offense except for 1-2 support skills. At least in the case of Drachma, the support skill is good, and one of the best in the game. Definitely the person I'd replace Vyse with. His durability is good, speed is blah, he has no screen-clearing, but with Aika it doesn't matter.
Fina: 6/10 - Is actually decent. Not as good as Aika at screen-clearing (slower), but her support skills are...actually decent! Lunar Blessing is...ok early, Lunar Winds' dispel is decent...and she has some speed. They're not great, and her SP is game-worst...but she at least makes a great item-girl. Bleh...she thanks herself for being force, but...I would use her, likely?
Gilder: 4.2/10 - Aura of Denial owns Vyse's other skills, and his stat spread is actually solid, like Vyse. Isn't required, but I'd use him over Vyse - I've found that saving up for the ultimate skills slows everything down a bit - consistent attacking works effectively (The Judgment is...a bit more cost/time-effective, but not by much), so Gilder's lack of any super-damage skill isn't bad. Still isn't amazing in the team setting, though.
Enrique: 8.8/10 - Would be part of the ideal party. Justice Shield owns. Wishes he were required (drops him a bit compared to Aika), and his speed isn't as good. On the other hand, durability is a little bit better, and he can deal damage if needed. Easily good.
Thany: 9.3/10 - One of the best Pegasus Knights. Owns the world.
Tate: 6.1/10 - Points for being the only other flier in the game...otherwise sucks about 20x more than Thany.
Miredy: Who?
Zeiss: What?
Yunno: You Mom?
Florina: 0.3/10 - Points for flying and little else. Never gains STR, DEF, HP...anything but LUK or some minor SPD. Is absolutely awful. The flying allows her to own Elitard, at least.
Fiora: 7.8/10 - Probably the best flier overall in FE7. Is awesome in all categories, though isn't outstanding in any of them.
Heath: 7.2/10 - Think the lower speed is enough to drop him a bit compared to Fiora.
Farina: 5/10 - Is...good, assuming you get her on another normal path! Barely available sucks, and, while she is good if built up...well, I never mind building her up, she completely owns everyone else on flying but Fiora, but...I don't know. Worth it to build up generally, but never matters is enough to give her an average score.
Vaida: 5/10 - Wishes she came with her spear.
Vanessa: 5.5/10 - Is decent.
Tana: 8.1/10 - Is good.
Cormag: 8.8/10 - Is gooder.
Syrene: 5/10 - Is...usable.
Marcia(9): 9/10 - Awesome.
Jill(9): 8/10 - Is good.
Janaff(9): 3/10 - HAH
Tanith(9): 7.6/10 - Not bad at all.
Ulki(9): 2/10 - Blah.
Haar(9): 6.9/10 - Is good...but not as good as Jill.
Tibarn(9): 7/10 - Have to subtract a little for barely being around, especially on Hard Mode.
Jill(10): 10/10 - I...yeah. Saves the Dawn Brigade's ass.
Marcia(10): 6/10 - She's...ok? Not too amazing, really.
Haar(10): 9/10 - As good as Jill, but is in a competent group!
Janaff(10): 7/10 - Think this is what I gave the Ravens? Eh.
Ulki(10): 7/10 - These guys are good, but do lack a little in some areas.
Sigrun: 5/10 - Uh...well, promotes early and helps the Dawn Brigade?
Tanith(10): 5/10 - ...see Sigrun?
Tibarn(10): 9.5/10 - Is awesome. Not as vital to his base group as Naesala is (DAWN BRIGADE NEEDS HELP), but is still great. Flying gets him a little above Nailah.
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my rankings are so different than everyones
Thany: 7/10 Flyer utility is nice, and shes your only flyer for a good portion of the game. Massive evasion too
Tate: 5/10 Shes okay
Miredy: 10/10 I'm pretty sure she is the best character in the game.
Zeiss: 8/10 Milledy + underleveled. Still awesome if you raise him
Yunno: 1/10 Point is because she needs to be alive to get the weapon to get the best ending
Florina: 8/10 Shes a beast once raised
Fiora: 7/10 Florina minus
Heath: 7/10 Good, but comes late
Farina: 7/10 Would be a 10, but Hector Mode only gives her -3. (I dont play for ranks, making her cost moot)
Vaida: 6/10 Excellent Filler
Vanessa: 8/10
Tana: 10/10 Always maxes most stats.
Cormag: 7/10 Tankier Vanessa.
Syrene: 4/10 Shes not horrible.
Marcia(9): 8/10
Jill(9): 8/10
Janaff(9): 5/10
Tanith(9): 8/10 Reinforcements are fun
Ulki(9): 3/10 Just bad.
Haar(9): 3/10 Lol Haar
Tibarn(9): 10/10 Broken
Jill(10): 7/10 Just cant keep up near the end
Marcia(10): 7/10 See Jill
Haar(10): 10/10 Broken.
Janaff(10): 8/10
Ulki(10): 8/10
Sigrun: 5/10 Can help in the desert at least and is not underleveled in the end
Tanith(10): 7/10 shes no Haar, but she's still pretty good
Tibarn(10): 10/10 Broken
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Ike(9): 8/10. One of the best straight combat units in the game unless you get completely RNG fucked early (Hi). Not as good as the uber trio of Paladins, but always competent and is super tanky once he gets that A support.
Mist(9): 5/10. Is absolutely and utterly terrible until she promotes, when she suddenly gains godlike healing abilities and movement. Sonic sword strategy is too limited to see much use; though she can make a competent fighter if you get lucky with the RNG. Your best bet for Angelic robes/Dracoshields overall.
Reyson(9): 3/10. Not impressed. Durability is complete crap, and until he transforms he has trouble keeping up with the actual good units.
Elincia(9): 1/10. Complete liability on the map she's forced in and after that you have like two maps to go. Yuck.
Titania(9): 9.5/10. She dominates the first half of the game. She is admitadlly passed by Stefan in raw offense and your newly promoted units after that, she always is durable and those weapon levels means she can spam Silver for the entire endgame. THe weapon levels are really, really stupid on that note. A/C? Geoffery joins with a A/C near the end of the game, and he's pretty average. TItania has that at the start of the game. People rating her below a 9/10 are high; the earlygame is the hardest part of FE9 and as said above she slaps it around.
Oscar(9): 9.5/10. Ike's better at raw offense, but Oscar just does not die. I'm pretty sure he was the only unit in the entire game who never was in serious danger of dying. HIs starting HP is stupid, the godlike supports have been covered, and his defense is amazing. Meh res? Who gives a damn, enemy mages blow and die horribly when you look at them sideways.
Kieran(9): 9/10. He's got two good support options (Marcia/Oscar), and is a mounted axeman. Sold!
Makalov(9): 5.5/10. Really weak start+joining later than the good Paladins hurts. Still solid enough on paper.
Geoffrey(9): 3/10. At least competent when he joins, which is too damn late.
Gatrie(9): 4.5/10. Very useful for a damage sponge early on. He sucks later, but oh well.
Brom(9): 6.5/10. Oscar with more durability (........) but far less offense and a really bad start. The movement also usually sees him left behind in most chapters, which is a shame.
Nephenee(9): 7.5/10. Starts strong out of the gate, never really gets weaker.
Devdan: Didn't get.
Tauroneo(9): 3/10. At least has defense.
Boyd(9): 8/10. LKasdjfljksdfl to the start I got, but still. You can hopefulyl fix it with BEXP and yeah, speedwings did make a huge difference here. Also
Mordecai(9): Didn't use.
Muarim(9): Didn't use.
Largo: Didn't use.
Giffca(9): Not using!
Doing these for fun since I'm about done with FE9.
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Super's playing catch-up I see.
Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 7.5 - It's nice when the required people are awesome. Good SP, solid durability, and pretty much your best source of damage for the whole game.
Aika: 9.5 - Random-clearing, Speed, Delta Shield, and Swirlmarang. For the whole game. Gamebest PC, the only thing she's missing is Boss damage.
Drachma: 5 - He's durable!
Fina: 6 - Useful enough support skills. ID was occasionally useful.
Gilder: 6 - Good temp. Better temp than Drachma was, even if Drachma's more useful later on.
Enrique: 7 - Justice Shield is just that good.
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 7 <3 PegKnights
Tate: 5 <3 PegKnights
Miredy: 8 Not a PegKnight, but good god.
Zeiss: 5
Yunno: 4 ...sorry.
Florina: 7 <3 PegKnights, but she always gets ninja-archered.
Fiora: 8 - a more proper PegKnight score.
Heath: 6 He was definitely a usable temp.
Farina: 5 <3 PegKnights, but Hector mode only is stupid.
Vaida: 4 ...diaf
Vanessa: 8 <3 PegKnights, in FE8!
Tana: 9 <3 <3
Cormag: 8 ...better than Ephraim.
Syrene: 4 ...
Marcia(9): 7 <3 PegKnights, but not FE8-level awesome.
Jill(9): 8 <3 Jill
Janaff(9): 4 ...by the time you get him, you just don't need him.
Tanith(9): 10 - Seriously Reinforce is the best bait I could have ever asked for. Trivialized FE9 for me.
Ulki(9): 4
Haar(9): 8 Better Jill, but less available.
Tibarn(9): 7 ...awesome but the availability....
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Haar(9): 8 Better Jill, but less available.
Haar is way too slow for that. 17 speed at the point he joins isn't good, and while the HP/defense is nice it doesn't make him better than Jill. He's Vaida in a game that is far kinder to that type of build.
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Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6.5/10. Your early flyer and ONLY flyer at that for a while. Stat wise, she's decent. Nothing whoamg awsum, but very servicable even late. Being able to support like Dieck keeps them both running in the long run if you are so inclined.
Tate: 2/10. Pretty bad. Random pretty much summarized it. Later joining time also means she has less supports built, so its really pretty much getting a Wendy except on wings.
Miredy: 8.5/10. There are a few FE PCs that clearly dominate. Miredy is probably one the best FE units on GBA (sharing that title with other greats), having great stats and growth in the critical areas, and then having good bases to boot. Pretty much replaces Thany when she comes along.
Zeiss: 3.5/10. Wtf at the strength. Usable, but 8 speed at that point in the game is pretty argh. Effort.
Yuuno: 1/10. lulz.
Florina: 8/10. Thany without the late game slump. Still early flyer and she's quite the offensive powerhouse thanks to the strength/speed growth combo as well as that fast Lyn support. Con is kinda a downer, but speed pretty much covers it as long as you don't weigh her down with a Steel Lance.
Fiora: 7/10. Later joining flyer, who gives up some strength and luck for better Skill and Res and a little more Def. Obvious losing trade unless on Hector hard mode. Pretty good otherwise, but not as offensively powerful.
Heath: 3/10. Pretty bad. It's not even so much that the join times are woeful, the next two maps just completely make Heath go ;_;. One has mages and arrows and axes, and that axereaver of his isn't going to last. The other has more powerful mages. Yeah, this'll work.
Farina: 1/10. EW. Okay, so first Hector mode only. Gj on availability off the bat. Then we have to dish out 20000 gold. 30000 if you include the promotion for her to be used. That pretty much kills any reason to use her even if the stat spread is great. Also, despite the stat spread, like all things in FE, still subject to the RNG. So its not even a guaranteed safe investment. If you drop her, you are out 20000 flat and you can't get that back. Fuck that shit >_>.
Vaida: 3/10. Also pretty bad. Vaida fills a niche, but its not a great niche. Especially since your dodge tanks are becoming dodge tanks at this point, so the raw concrete durability on non-arrows/magic is not that great.
Vanessa: 7/10. Yo dawg I heard you like anima supports so we put a bunch of characters with anima supports in your game so you can anima support while you anima support.
Tana: 9/10. Florina. Except on crack. Her bases are more equivalent to a level 11 unit than a level 4 unit for starters. Then she has great growths again in key areas (Strength/speed and luck in her case for dodge tanking), and awesome support options.
Cormag: 5/10. Not terribly bad, but not as great as Tana or Vanessa. He ends up pretty average all things considered. Gets better on one route I suppose? He's not even that great on Eph route.
Syrene: 1/10. Very tempted to give her a 0.5, but she's not worse than Yunno, so no. Yeah she has growths, except again, they don't matter since her bases are shit. In the words of hinode, you know you have problems when you get OHKO'd by long range Gorgon magic at your default level and stats when it comes to being used.
Marcia(9): 7.5/10. Weakish early game. Becomes standard Peg knight package with somewhat less evade.
Jill(9): 8/10. Yeeeeeeeeah
Janaff(9): 3/10. FE9 Laguz issues pretty much sink him. But at least they have flight.
Tanith(9): 7/10. Notably Solid. A good pre-promo and usable if you need a flyer and neither Marcia nor Jill are doing that well
Ulki(9): 2.5/10. Uh...he has more evade BUT LAGUZ GAUGE THAT MAKES HIM INEFFECTIVE FOR THE FIRST 4 TURNS YESZ
Haar(9): 3.5/10. Notably worse than his FE10 form. Tank on wings that gets replaced when Geoffrey comes along, yeah.
Tibarn(9): 5/10. Same notes as Naesala/Giffca. Pretty much doubles the shit out of everything too AND he hits harder than Naesala.
Jill(10): 8/10. Doesn't start off great, but isn't really a project character either. She's notable though since she's the only flyer on the DB and pretty much the only mounted unit to boot (lolFiona). If you manage to keep her going, she gets notably powerful since her speed cap is solid and she can be a worthwhile end game option as result.
Marcia(10): 7/10. That strength is a little iffy. You can fix it with supports for a little while, so its not unsalvagable. Marcia's also plenty available too, although when she first rejoins with the group, her levels might be a little low. A good paragon candidate
Haar(10): 10/10. There are only 3 other units who can compare to Haar to me in FE10. One is Reyson. The other two are Ike and Volug. Haar differentiates himself a little bit though since from the moment when he first appears, he isn't only badass incarnate, but he is badass incarnate on a WYVERN. That flight gives him that extra 0.5 to me since it lets him pull off some hilarious maneuvers and ferrying options that neither Ike nor Volug are capable of doing.
Janaff(10): 8.5/10. Haar who joins later and has no two range option along with transformation issues. Still notably badass, especially in part 3. Trades off some durability for better offense compared to his partner. A winning trade here.
Ulki(10): 8.5/10. See Janaff. Ulki's the more durable of the two. But the hawks in part 3 are pretty much Haar, meaning they don't die, so his overkill durability really doesn't show up until near the end of part 4. Still not enough to differentiate a full point
Sigrun: 4/10. Yeah. Good short term potential for sure since she starts so close to a tier 3. Bonus her up a bit, and she's useful for sniping things that should be dead and carrying out other duties. Not a good long term option since her growths are pretty poor.
Tanith(10): 5/10. Better long term investment than Sigrun, but takes a while to get going still.
Tibarn(10): 9/10. I consider him worse than Nailah, but he's still broken as hell. Crossbows! Except y'know, Pavise makes them like fail half the time.
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Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 8/10 - Bosses die everywhere forever; if you get to Soltis a tad overleveled you can splatter randoms with Rain of Swords too.
Aika: 10/10 - Delta Shield and your main random clearer against like 80% of encounters throughout the game; fast item-girl against the odd non-magic boss.
Drachma: 6.5/10 - Spirit Charge is great if you're going offense oriented. His other skills are just less useful than Vyse usually though, and slow as dirt.
Fina: 3/10 - Frail, not really fast, SoA magic sucks. Her Supers don't see use when I'm more worried about using my SP to kill things dead.
Gilder: 6/10 - Good stats, and Aura of Denial is solid against bosses with status effects but no ID. Doesn't really add much to the team though.
Enrique: 8/10 - Justice Shield. I'd use him and Drachma if I could.
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6/10 - Good against mages, early flyer, dodgy, decent support options. Usable late game.
Tate: 3/10 - Not... not good.
Miredy: 8.5/10 - A total monster when she gets going... which doesn't happen right away, which is juuust a little off.
Zeiss: 5.5/10 - Serviceable enough. Slow and late though...
Yunno: 1/10 - Hahahahaha
Florina: 7/10 - Thany with nicer supports, generally.
Fiora: 7/10 - Hard to call her much better or worse than Florina; they have things good going for them, with Fiora being slightly better on her own but later and with lesser supports.
Heath: 4/10 - He's... all right. He'd be much better if catching him up wasn't terrible, though only by a point or two - just not enough of any stat to stand out.
Farina: 3.5/10 - She loses like... four points for being a bitch to recruit. Seriously vicious if you bother though!
Vaida: 5/10 - Slightly biased, but if you need a spare tank at the end of the game she fills the niche really well. Killed Brendan Reed on my first, horribly amateurish play through.
Vanessa: 6.5/10 - Very solid all around, good supports.
Tana: 9/10 - That Spd/Str combo is just mean, and she has some great supports and is a flyer in a game that doesn't kill them very often.
Cormag: 7.5/10 - Great offense, hard enough to kill, decent supports.
Syrene: 3/10 - Won't get horribly maimed all the time I guess?
Marcia(9): 8.5/10 - Utterly saved my RNG screwed Hard Mode game by capping Str and Spd about as soon as she is possibly capable of. An FE9 flyer with good stats otherwise.
Jill(9): 8/10 - A bit of a slow start and never turns into a COMPLETE monster, but generally one of your better characters.
Janaff(9): 2/10 - FE9 Laguz in general...
Tanith(9): 6.5/10 -
Ulki(9): 2/10 - Again.
Haar(9): 7/10 - Vaida+ in a game where Vaida would be better.
Tibarn(9): Abstain
Jill(10): 9/10 - FE10 is great for flyers, and she's essential for the DB. Solid endgame, though the Str can turn out bad.
Marcia(10): 7.5/10 - Not as good as FE9, but only because the competition is better. Still a fine flyer.
Haar(10): 9/10 - Basically wrecks everything until the last couple maps. Lack of Spd finally catches up at endgame.
Janaff(10): 7/10 - Not a fan of Hawks, but he has his moments where he can tear things up.
Ulki(10): 7.5/10 - Janaff with even less chance of dying.
Sigrun: 4/10 - Usable in a few places, but not really good.
Tanith(10): 5/10 - Sigrun but a little better.
Tibarn(10): 9/10 - Total monster. Not there terribly often though.
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Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 8. Damage lynchpin (Sure, Drachma could also be one, although his needs a little more SP). Still, theoretical replacability from Drachma exists, but 8 feels right..
Aika: 8. Speed+Random Clearing+Delta Shield
Drachma: 8. Spirit Charge is great for powering Vyse up.
Fina: 3. Some of her support skills are neat if you are in trouble, but with Aika/Enrique, how are you really getting into trouble?
Gilder: 4. Severly underwhelming. No real damage option you care about, Aura of Denial...eh, has it's uses (Against that one battle against the 3 girls who have status on their physicals I think). But if it's magical status, Aika owns it far better.
Enrique: 8. Yeah, halving physicals each turn is badass.
Needless to say, very segmented cast! Vyse/Aika/Drachma/Enrique all feel great enough to deserve an 8. Gilder and Fina just do not have the techs to play with the rest of the cast (Fina might if SoA items weren't so stupid. Gilder...would flat out need Delta Shield to not exist though).
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Skies of Arcadia
(Legends):
Rankings for Skies are screwy because every character except Gilder and Drachma has broken stuff that upend your average turn-based RPG. Also this is for the DC version.
Vyse: 7. Can't give him any lower than this, since he's fast, chops up ST randoms, and tends to be the main damage dealer against bosses with Cutlass Fury and later Pirate's Wrath or Prophecy. Decent tank too! Yet still theoretically replaceable and not quite broken.
Aika: 9. Spamming Delta Shield can cheese out lots of bosses, so I didn't do it, but even igoring that... fast item-girl is fantastic in a game with broken items. Fast Alpha Storm / Lambda Burst wipes out randoms for the first 3/4 of the game - few random survive 2 Lambda Bursts. And then there's Swirlmerang, which you can get sillily fast in the DC version and ives her a better attack than Vyse with confusion attached, and is still okay later! Insane.
Drachma: 5. Tank. Slow tank, and Tackle's animation kind of sucks and is SP-intensive, but hey.
Fina: 6. Yes, she has no damage, and yes she's a mage in a game where magic is awful, and yes she can die easily. But. Her support stuff is great-to-broken. Lunar Cleansing just completely mocks status (not that status is THAT common) and Lunar Light is about the most broken ability I've seen ever be infinitely spammable. Basically, if you have 24 SP reserved in the tank and Fina alive, it's hard to lose (Lunar Light has initiative!).
Gilder: 5. Gunslinger is pretty powerful and hits a big range, actually competing decently with Aika for random-clearer title. Good stats, but yeah, Gunslinger is kind of all he has.
Enrique: 7. Much like Fina, there's only so low a score someone with Justice Shield can get, except his stats are better.
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Florina: 6?
Fiora: 6? Florina got a bit behind, so being able to switch into Fiora at a nice higher level was convenient.
Heath: 4? Seemed okay.
Farina: ?
Vaida: 3. Yeah, too easy to get doubled by magic and die as a PC.
Vanessa: 5? Didn't use.
Tana: 9. Ephraim on a flying horsey.
Cormag: 6. Cormag was usable enough. Coulda used more speed but whatever.
Syrene: 3. Uh passable emergency replacement flyer I guess.
Marcia(9): ? Didn't really use.
Jill(9): 9. Fantastic. My kill leader along with Boyd. She just had great stats everywhere and would single-handedly go slaughter reinforcements.
Janaff(9): 2.
Tanith(9): 8. Not quite as broken as Jill, but Sonic Sword gives versatility, and Reinforce is good times (especially if you're having a difficult time).
Ulki(9): 2.
Haar(9): 5. Haar was behind Jill in level for me? That may be because Jill slurped blood like a starved vampire, but he was definitely behind in stats at least.
Tibarn(9): ? DNR.
-
Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 8. Damage lynchpin (Sure, Drachma could also be one, although his needs a little more SP). Still, theoretical replacability from Drachma exists, but 8 feels right..
Aika: 8. Speed+Random Clearing+Delta Shield
Drachma: 8. Spirit Charge is great for powering Vyse up.
Fina: 3. Some of her support skills are neat if you are in trouble, but with Aika/Enrique, how are you really getting into trouble?
Gilder: 4. Severly underwhelming. No real damage option you care about, Aura of Denial...eh, has it's uses (Against that one battle against the 3 girls who have status on their physicals I think). But if it's magical status, Aika owns it far better.
Enrique: 8. Yeah, halving physicals each turn is badass.
Needless to say, very segmented cast! Vyse/Aika/Drachma/Enrique all feel great enough to deserve an 8. Gilder and Fina just do not have the techs to play with the rest of the cast (Fina might if SoA items weren't so stupid. Gilder...would flat out need Delta Shield to not exist though).
Burp - Copying Dhyer for the SoAL part.
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6/10. Requires a bit of babying early, but is a good mage killer and your only flying option for a good while.
Tate: 3/10. Yeah no.
Miredy: 8/10. Quite good.
Zeiss: 4/10. Usable, but comes just a little too late for me.
Yunno: 1/10. Yeah, NO.
Florina: 8/10. Like Thany, has some survivability problems early. Unlike Thany, she turns into a fairly reliable smasher of everything.
Fiora: 8/10. I find her fairly interchangable with Florina to be honest.
Heath: 5/10. Not bad, but not good either.
Farina: 5/10. She'd be an 8 as well, but Hector mode only + that late + the money all lose her a point each.
Vaida: 5/10. Not bad for a late prepromo. Usable at least.
Vanessa: 7/10. Great supports, very helpful early, is still easily replaced by Tana.
Tana: 9/10. Really insanely good.
Cormag: 6.5/10. Gets an 8 on Eph route, gets a 5 on Eir route. Averages out to 6.5
Syrene: 1/10. Yeah no.
Marcia(9): 7/10. Quite useful, but for some reason I don't want to give her an 8 or higher. Can't remember why though. Been awhile since I played FE9 I suppose.
Jill(9): 7/10. Always felt pretty interchangable with Marcia, so.
Janaff(9): 2/10. Ew, FE9 hawks.
Tanith(9): 7/10. An interesting unit at the very least. And quite good for a prepromo.
Ulki(9): 2/10. Ew, FE9 hawks.
Haar(9): 5/10. See Vaida, really.
Tibarn(9): 8/10. Dominating, but last map only, etc.
Jill(10): 7/10. Still good but not dominating. Lifesaver in Part 1 at points, though.
Marcia(10):
Haar(10): 10/10. Haar is nuts, no two ways about it.
Janaff(10): 8/10. Woah FE10 haxhawks
Ulki(10): 8/10. Woah FE10 haxhawks
Sigrun:
Tanith(10):
Tibarn(10): 9/10. It's Tibarn, he's a monster.
I know I used them at points but I can't remember for the life of me how good the FE10 peggies were right now. Unit overload or something, I dunno.
-
Jill(10): 9/10
Marcia(10): 3/10
Haar(10): 9/10
Janaff(10): 8/10
Ulki(10): 8/10
Sigrun: 2/10
Tanith(10): 2/10
Tibarn(10): 8/10
-
Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 8/10. Yeah, good on all fronts you need him to be.
Aika: 7/10. Not sold on the Lambda Burst Hype cause twinking magic for Pyr- spells does the exact same thing, and fore less SP (MP is laughable resource in SoA), though Delta Shield and game best speed are handy.
Drachma: 7/10. Awesome Tank, Spirit Charge is awesome, and Hand of Fate is like a Pirate's Wrath supplement. That said, lack of usage holds him back from being higher.
Fina: 4/10. Not as bad as people state, but there's nothing really unique she can do until later, and the big awesome moves...are kind of meaningless when the scariest you see enemies do is offset by the game's broken item set, she ends up using most of her turns just tossing said items *OR* using Focus.
Gilder: 4/10. Aura of Denial is useless since Delta Shield covers everything remotely care worthy, all he has is basically AoE Cutlass Fury, and that's not enough to give him a purpose. He does, however, have significantly more durability than Fina, so...we'll say that offsets the lack of usage, yeah, that works!
Enrique: 8/10. Justice Shield. He could have nothing else and his worth would be justified.
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6/10. Passable Flier, if nothing really special.
Tate: 3/10. Less than passable flier.
Miredy: 8.5/10. Ok, now we're talking!
Zeiss: 3.5/10. About as good as Miredy...when he catches up. Thing is, he joins like 4 chapters later, 3 levels lower, so catching up isn't happening.
Yunno: 1/10. Not only does she suck, getting her robs you of...Dayan...whose slightly better! ...yeah, bad argument, Yunno still sucks though.
Florina: 7.5/10. Ah, now THAT"S more like it, as far as Peg Knight's go; half a point for that ridiculously early Lyn Support that compliments both characters well.
Fiora: 7/10. Florina variation, about equal I feel but lacks the Lyn support.
Heath: 3/10. Zeiss in a game with better competition.
Farina: 3/10. Good on paper, but...not worth the recruitment cost, requires playing catch up and she's Hector Mode only to boot.
Vaida: 4/10. Passable filler if you really need it.
Vanessa: 6/10. Works for what she is, but I was never too impressed.
Tana: 9/10. HER, now, on the otherhand, just kicks ass across the board.
Cormag: 7/10. Miredy in a game with better competition; this translates a lot better than Zeiss in a game with better competition of course!
Syrene: 1.5/10. Really bad, I give her half a point cause I feel she's at lest better than Yunno.
Marcia(9): 7/10. Textbook example of what Peg Knights should be.
Jill(9): 8/10. Ok, fuck Cormag, THIS is Miredy in a game with better competition.
Janaff(9): 2/10. Garbage; useful for getting the Knight Ring, and that's about it. A flier who joins when you have 3 and lacks the usual flight advantages like, say, Canto.
Tanith(9): 6.5/10. Solid enough, but nothing special; Reinforce is pretty bitching though, so half a point for that.
Ulki(9): 2/10. Janaff's equally crappy counterpart!
Haar(9): 4/10. Hey look, its the Zeiss type, except actually joins properly leveled! Pity he's still nothing special.
Tibarn(9): 7/10. I'm not sure if I can credit him for Chapter 29 or not, since he's an allied unit...but otherwise, he's like the other two; kicks ass, but for one map only.
Jill(10): 8.5/10. Really good on all fronts; she's such a major crutch to the Dawn Brigade, its not even funny, being the ONLY Flier (sans short points with Vika), one of the only mounted characters (The other being garbage), *AND* one of the most durable characters among the group, you really end up relying on her a lot.
Marcia(10): 7/10. Lack of usability holds her back, and she does join a bit underleveled, so she does feel worse than the other 2 Falcon Knights. That said, she's still good at what she does.
Haar(10): 9/10. Yeah, pretty absurd; though, like was said, late game his speed does hold him back offensively a bit, so he's more just a steady Mobile Tank that late, not that this is a bad thing.
Janaff(10): 8.5/10. The only flaws he really has is starting with A Rank Strike, which limits his offense for a while, and Laguz do have to watch their gauge. Other than that? Kicks ass on all fronts.
Ulki(10): 8.5/10. ...see Janaff. The Two Hawks got upgrades on par with the likes of SHinon and Elincia, but damn did they need it!
Sigrun: 6/10. Servicable Flier, who joins right when Fliers are really handy. Being so close to Tier 3 makes her become a good unit to use during Part 4 where you're using a lot of units, given Tier 3 Promotions have awesome gains (and Stun.)
Tanith(10): 6/10. Sigrun whose worse earlier, but better later, it evens out.
Tibarn(10): 9/10. Oh look, he's even better in this game, and now joins for an amount of time that can actually be considered measurable enough to gain a genuine score! He also happens to be a leader in 2 of those chapters, giving you a sexy 4 star Leadership bonus.
-
Skies of Arcadia (Legends):
Vyse: 7.5
Aika: 8.57
Drachma: 6.25
Fina: 4.4
Gilder: 4.72
Enrique: 7.38
Fire Emblem Fliers (Hawks Included!):
Thany: 6.21
Tate: 3.1
Miredy: 8.3
Zeiss: 4.00
Yunno: 1.35
Florina: 6.89
Fiora: 6.92
Heath: 4.11
Farina: 3.25
Vaida: 3.73
Vanessa: 6.57
Tana: 8.73
Cormag: 6.30
Syrene: 2.31
Marcia(9): 7.65
Jill(9): 7.82
Janaff(9): 2.85
Tanith(9): 7.08
Ulki(9): 2.50
Haar(9): 5.42
Tibarn(9): 7.1
Jill(10): 7.92
Marcia(10): 6.5
Haar(10): 9.17
Janaff(10): 7.5
Ulki(10): 7.55
Sigrun: 4.25
Tanith(10): 4.5
Tibarn(10): 8.83
Best Rating of this session: Haar(10) w/ 9.17
Worst rating of this session: Yunno w/ 1.35
Ok, might as well poll you guys so...
I'm thinking of, after we finish FE (Just cause its a good point to start something new), I'll bold cast specific bests, and italicize cast worsts specifically (while the Session Best/Worsts listed normally), just so people can see the comparisons against their own casts. Thoughts on this? I'm unsure if I'll apply it to other oversized casts (Suikodens and CC), so just assume this is the case for casts done in singular sessions.
THAT SAID, ONWARDS!
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah:
Luna:
Ramus:
Laike:
Nash Rumack:
Jessica De'Alkirk:
Mia Ausa:
Ghaleon:
Kyle:
Tempest:
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh:
Lilina:
Ray:
Sophia:
Hugh:
Niime:
Erk:
Canas:
Pent:
Nino:
Lute:
Saleh:
Ewan:
Knoll:
Soren(9):
Illyana(9):
Tormod(9):
Calill(9):
Bastian(9):
Ena(9):
Nasir(9):
Illyana(10):
Tormod(10):
Calill(10):
Soren(10):
Pelleas:
Bastian(10):
Ena(10):
Kurthnaga:
Gareth:
Nasir(10):
Note: Like with Wild ARMs, for Lunar, vote SPECIFICALLY on the SSSC forms. IOWs, Lunar Legends or any other variant does not apply here, due to how there are dramatic changes in games.
-
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8/10. Pretty solidly the best PC in the game.
Luna: 3/10. healed a little?
Ramus: 3/10. Only useful for like two dungeons, then just cannon fodder.
Laike: DNR
Nash Rumack: 3/10. Did not find his status to be useful at all.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7/10. Good healer.
Mia Ausa: 6/10. Ice shell and good damage.
Ghaleon: DNR
Kyle: 4/10. Mostly there.
Tempest: DNR
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Erk: 5/10. He's okay enough.
Canas: 3.5/10. Dark books suck outside of the rare uniques, and his averagish stat spread does not help matters. He is also pretty slow in practice due to being weighed down.
Pent: 7/10. No complaints.
Nino: 1/10 go away
Lute: Skip for now.
Saleh: 4.5/10. Bland filler, but works in a pinch.
Ewan: 1/10 GO AWAY
Knoll: 2/10 FE8 mages were not great outside of Lute.
Soren(9): 3/10- Mage tombs are terrible in FE9 due to the way forging works, his durability is ass and is nerfed massively in both concrete and evasion compared to GBA mages, and his only good defensive stat is completely useless thanks to enemies mages blowing.
llyana(9): 1/10- 15% defense growth? 30% speed growth? Get out.
Tormod(9): 4/10. Best of the mages, but joins underleveled and a bit later than the first two. Has a useful skill at least, though the supports could be better.
Calill(9): 3/10. Probably better than soren, but joins so late. Blah.
Bastian(9): 1.5/10. IS STILL BETTER THAN ILYANA
Ena(9): 1/10. Laguz who joins at the last second and who isn't a royal. blah.
Nasir(9): 1/10 See Ena.
Illyana(10): 4/10. Even if she is utterly useless for the rest of the game, she still helps you get through a couple of very tough maps.
Tormod(10): 3/10. Good for a couple of maps, then nothing.
Calill(10): 7/10. What the fuck? A FE9-10 mage with speed, damage, and staves?! YAY
Soren(10): 3/10. Still frail, still completely outdone by most of the units in his group, still not that fast. Get out.
Pelleas: Pass for obvious reasons
Bastian(10):
Ena(10):
Kurthnaga:
Gareth:
Nasir(10):
-
Alex Noah: 9.2/10. Overall just an excellent character. Offense, defense, support...stats are also great, and the slightly bad MP can be fixed later. Yeah.
Luna:
Ramus: 4/10. No skillset, no stats...but early enough that just having the character is enough.
Laike: 9.8/10. Dominates his path...except for a single enemy he can't kill at all. Fail, ultimate warrior >_>
Nash Rumack: 7.4/10. The speed and status are awesome. When status fails, he's fast with full-screen damage, and can make awesome use of Ghaleon's Tear+Starlight Bow.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7.1/10. Heals.
Mia Ausa: 6.1/10. Screen-clearing, support spells are good. Speed could use some work, but...eh, it's enough.
Ghaleon: 10/10. Dominates the part you have him.
Kyle: 5.3/10. Just kind of there...LVP of the final group definitely. Offense is decent, at least.
Tempest: 4/10. Good stats, skillset sucks.
Lugh: Who?
Lilina: 9.7/10. Single-handedly destroys the game.
Ray: What?
Sophia: 9.1/10. Rough start compared to Lilina...but really turns out well. And is the only one that can use the Dark Tomes, so...
Hugh: Blah?
Niime: Potato!
Erk: 7/10. Mages are good.
Canas: 8.9/10. Only Dark Mage, practically. Also pretty awesome overall on stats.
Pent: 6.5/10. Decent, but really, the other mages are better.
Nino: 9.4/10. Ends up really awesome, and is easy to build.
Lute: 9.1/10. Great, although has competition!
Saleh: 5/10. Uh...usable.
Ewan: 8/10. Ends up very good! Just...bleh. Too much competition, really.
Knoll: 8.1/10. Good! Only practical Dark Mage as well! Just that the overall competition is stronger and more plentiful.
Soren(9): 6.7/10. Remember the mages being decent, but Soren lacking in a few areas like strength. Fast, and has Adept, though. So ends up being decent.
Illyana(9): 6.4/10. Speed is decent, strength is just enough...bleh. Overall not that amazing.
Tormod(9): 7.2/10. Probably the best. The mages are all kind of close.
Calill(9): 6/10. Eh....
Bastian(9): 5/10. KNIVES!!!! More strength than Soren, at least.
Ena(9): 6/10. Needed them a bit longer.
Nasir(9): 6/10. As above.
Illyana(10): 5/10. Sucks...but helps the DB, which can only get you so bad >_>
Tormod(10): 6.6/10. Helps DB...but damn the comeback!
Calill(10): 6/10. Good! At least serviceable, but compared to the rest of the group? Would get a better score in the DB >_>
Soren(10): 6.6/10. Eh...Better, but worse?
Pelleas: 6.5/10. Screw replay-only >_> Good otherwise! Only dark mage is nice.
Bastian(10): 6.6/10. Works as a Soren replacement.
Ena(10): 8.2/10. Red Tide is awesome, and overall...just solid, and around just enough to be useful. Slow, but...could be worse.
Kurthnaga: 8.7/10. Night Tide is awesome, and...yeah, awesome stats, including speed, and gets Fullshift...a little slow, but not enough to hurt. Definitely a good character to use.
Gareth: 7/10. An extra Red Tide is still nice.
Nasir(10): 7.2/10. Needed to be around longer, but White Tide is kickass...
-
Alex Noah: 8/10, sure.
Luna: 5/10. Healing and sleep.
Ramus: 3/10. Decent warm body, I guess.
Laike: DNR. Probably rankable, but eh, pass.
Nash Rumack: 6/10. His status was rather handy, especially the GT sleep.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8/10. Have fun beating the game without her. Was left wanting more that prevents me from giving her a 9, though.
Mia Ausa: 5/10. Had some GT/MT awesome, but the speed was an issue for a while.
Ghaleon: DNR.
Kyle: 3/10. Pretty much only good against bosses, and even then he's like third or fourth best.
Tempest: 3/10. Had speed at least, but not good damage or skillset.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 7.5/10. Pretty great as time goes on, dodgy enough to be fairly durable, and Anima is cool, fast.
Lilina: 6/10. She's okay. Definitely reliant on getting certain stats, and the start is even worse than Lugh's, but she gets there.
Ray: 5/10. Makes Lugh better.
Sophia: 0.5/10. graaaahhhhh
Hugh: 3/10. In his defence if you care about rankings you want to recruit him. Unfortunately you want to recruit him with -3 to all stats, which makes him pretty bad. For the price of getting his real stats you can buy a stat booster for someone else, and he might as well have no supports. Still, anima mage is only so bad.
Niime: 4/10. Decent lategame Physic user.
Erk: 5/10. Is almost permanently in the shadow of either Lucius or Pent, but there are worse fates.
Canas: 4/10. Bad speed and crap for supports. Gets going fairly nicely late, but the payoff isn't really worth it... would be if Athos didn't exist probably!
Pent: 8/10. It's Pent. He's one bad motherfucker. Simultaneously the game's best healer and overall attack mage (and benefits from an innate +3 def support).
Nino: 2/10. Exp ranking padding is her only use.
Lute: 8.5/10. Lute can pretty much godmode the game starting from Chapter 11. All her supports are full evade and usually good for other stats too (Yay Anima), she has beastly power, the only thing which holds her back from even higher is speed which is still decent. Even mobile after promotion!
Saleh: 5/10. Reasonable filler.
Ewan: 2/10. Opinion of trainees is higher than it used to be, but Ewan is still clearly the worst of the three since his niches are so well-covered already. Man you catch him up and Lute is still better? what
Knoll: 3/10. Godawful combat unit. Fortunately that's not his point; his point is "promote him into Summoner right away". He should never see battle, but being the game's best Summoner (he needs 18 less levels than Ewan to get there + his summons have better stats anyway) is something I can't give too low a score to, even if I find the summons of rather questionable worth.
Soren(9): 6/10. Speed's a little temperamental, but lategame he still has fairly badass offence because of weakness hitting and the tankiest enemies having lower Res than Def ('cept Dragons). Getting him there kinda hurts, but at least he has some avoid supports.
Illyana(9): 3/10. Hey look it's Soren with like 4 less speed, so she doesn't even have the offence that makes him good. No.
Tormod(9): 5/10. I want to like him better since Celerity rules, but he's a pain to catch up. Should probably be promoted at 10, but then his stats just aren't as good as Soren's outside move.
Calill(9): 7/10. Supports Neph who has trouble getting supports otherwise, and Tormod (same story). Takes no effort to do all the things mages do well lategame. Gives up staves for this, but that just prevents her from being Pent.
Bastian(9): 1/10. Oh Bastian.
Ena(9): 3/10. Bonus point for being able to kill Ashnard if you have a sucky Ike.
Nasir(9): 2.5/10. Statistically superior to Ena, but lacks that bonus point, and he's not exactly much better anyway. Won't die but shitty move and shaky attack.
Illyana(10): 2/10. Oh god I hate Ilyana in this game. I don't like to employ the "Wastes experience" argument but she really does, and this doesn't even encourage me to use her in her ~2 chapters of being competent. After that she spends the rest of the game being harsh owned by every other mage in sight and that's bad since FE10 mages... Magic could be better, speed and durability sucks, weapon levels outside lolthunder are terrible. I've used her in endgame, I have the right to rant!
Tormod(10): 3/10. At least he has 3 good chapters.
Calill(10): 5.5/10. Good endgame! Not so great otherwise, but rarely terrible.
Soren(10): 4/10. So many better Greil Mercs... just wish he had more speed, he'd be quite good with even 10% more growth and a higher cap.
Pelleas: 4/10. Gets a good staff rank on promotion at least.
Bastian(10): 4.5/10. Quite a bit better! Has great weapon levels after the gate and the stats are juuust high enough to compete in endgame. Probably a bad choice there but there's worse, and he can kick ass in 4-5.
Ena(10): 6/10. The damage boost is a huge deal for some bosses and the E-3 tanking is nice. Needs levels to survive against Ashera, though.
Kurthnaga: 4/10 (Night Tide isn't as good, no I don't care that his attack is better)
Gareth: 1.5/10 (hey it's Ena who is much frailer despite 40+ def! and lacks one of Ena's best maps)
Nasir(10): 6/10 (Ena with a better tide and better stats, but no E-3)
-
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 9/10, best PC in the game. Versatile, MP issues but eh you have Starlights a-plenty in the game so. Also that MP-Cost-halving accessory. Top-class even considering other games' heroes.
Luna: 5/10, damage was meh but the early-game buffing and healing was very good! Underwhelming a little since you can use items in her stead, and by the time she has MT healing you're almost reduced to 2 members and Jessica joins you for the part where it's actually useful. >_>
Ramus: 4/10, as far as meatshields go not bad. Tanks for the first parts of the prologue until Alex gets up.
Laike: 2/10, only good for experience farming with Alex later but uhhhh.
Nash Rumack: 6/10, solid, fast damage, never really used his status much.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7/10, healer who can damage well in a game where I used a lot of regular physicals on randoms.
Mia Ausa: 7/10, crowd control + godly buffs. Speed can be easily salvaged.
Ghaleon: 1/10, can't even farm exp with him because the dungeon he's available for is utter crap for experience.
Kyle: 4/10, extra meatshield and some damage... yeah, just felt like an after thought. Not really amazing. Least interesting character.
Tempest: 5/10, push the enemy to left-side of screen or just out the fight? Hey.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 6/10, passable Mage for the first parts of the game.
Lilina: 8/10, great Mage.
Ray: 7/10, good Druid but a little underwhelming.
Sophia: Never used her
Hugh: Never used him
Niime: Never used her
Erk: 2/10, useful at first but god that Mag Growth BLOWS. I've seldom seen him get extra Mag before promotion. >_> (this is why he has never promoted for me)
Canas: 7/10, cleans house. Speed isn't a massive issue due to FE7.
Pent: 6/10, he's good but he comes at a point in time when you already have a lot of useful characters.
Nino: 1/10, raise only if you think you absolutely need another Mage. She's just an added thing after you round out your cast.
Lute: 7/10, great Mage!
Saleh: Never used him
Ewan: 7/10, speedy Druid! Underwhelms due to being late and needing time to be nurtured. At least you have Tower of Valni, unlike NINO.
Knoll: 1/10, Luck.
-
Alex Noah: 8/10. General MVP, but his worth tended to augment in bits and pieces. So, no extra decimal for him. Also didn't have an amazing start.
Luna: 4/10. Not great, but she was your first healer.
Ramus: 2/10. Wow, Ramus, you suck.
Laike: DNR.
Nash Rumack: 6/10. Once he got Sleep, he turned into my MVP for randoms. However, that takes some time and he's the worst PC for bosses by far. Still, Sleep owns randoms so badly until the last dungeon and Lunar randoms aren't trivial, so.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8/10. Valuable healer, even if her healing wasn't overpowered. Also had a stint where her physical was actually appreciable. You probably can't beat the game without her either. >_>
Mia Ausa: 5/10. Runs for LVP until Flameria - then, she's quite good, and her buffs are quite handy for bosses. But Flameria's a long way.
Ghaleon: DNR.
Kyle: 4/10. Extra damage sponge and solid damage dealer is nice. Problem is he's completely redundant elsewhere.
Tempest: DNR.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 6.5/10. Hmmm, okay supports, solid growths. Doesn't amaze me, but pulls his weight.
Lilina: 6/10. She's really good at cannonning and has a few great supports, but the stat spread is often problematic. Really could use speed.
Ray: 5/10. Eh. Dark Magic isn't impressive, and Ray has a few issues of his own. Okay enough.
Sophia: 1/10. lulz.
Hugh: 3/10. Eh, why bother? Also expensive.
Niime: 2/10. UHHHH STAFF LEVELS
Erk: 4/10. Not impressed by his supports and he gets rather notably outshone by Pent.
Canas: 5/10. Gets to average for me due to Luna being rather broken in a few instances of the game. Dark Magic, however, still fails to impress overall.
Pent: 7/10. Quite good.
Nino: 2/10. URGH THAT LEVEL AND STATS SIX MAPS FROM ENDGAME?
Lute: 8.5/10. Man, she's broken. Lilina who comes up earlier and better stats+crazy sexy supports.
Saleh: 4/10. Acceptable filler.
Ewan: 1/10. Jesus christ no to that start at -that- point in the game.
Knoll: 2/10. Um.
-
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8/10
Luna: 5/10
Ramus: 2/10
Laike: Abstain
Nash Rumack: 5/10
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8/10
Mia Ausa: 5/10
Ghaleon: Abstain
Kyle: 4/10
Tempest: 3.5/10
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: Anima magic in FE6 is pretty awesome. Lugh is solid all around besides that, for all that the start impresses little. 7/10
Lilina: The start is pretty bad and the speed needs work, though Anima + lightning-fast Roy support makes her useable at that point and she is your best source of offense against Mamkutes and is a good cannon aside from that. 6.5/10
Ray: Uh he has Nosferatu. Lugh--. 5/10
Sophia: Hey guyz I join with 4 speed midgame and lose 2 of that from my most basic weapon oh I also have 16 HP and 2 Def awesome am i rite?! Gets saved from 0/10 territory because she does net you a Guiding Ring, which aren't that trivial to come by in this game without spending money for them, but past that, complete and total liability should you be foolish enough to try and raise her. 0.5/10
Hugh: Steal his Member Card and save yourself some money. I guess he can serve as filler if you pay the full 10k for him but at that price why. 2.5/10
Niime: lulz but hey staff levels 2/10
Erk: Pretty mediocre. Has a few chapters where he's the only magic user and then Lucius comes along and whoops. 5/10
Canas: The stat spread certainly fails to impress, and speed is hardly trivial when your base/growth isn't that good and you're losing speed from even your most basic weapon before promotion. Has the option of Luna hax for some bosses but man why. 3.5/10
Pent: Hay guyz I'm a prepromo with awesome bases and an A rank in staves. Doesn't grow much, but doesn't have to, really. 7/10
Nino: lulz late game project. 1/10
Lute: God Lute is hax. 8/10
Saleh: Is no Pent but is far from bad. 4/10
Ewan: Tower exists, but the potential is not there. 2/10
Knoll: Fail. 1/10
-
Hmph. Passing on SSSC. I've played to midgameish but doesn't feel confident on it.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 8/10. Is this what Nino would be if she joined where, say, Rebecca does? Could be. Anyway, FE6 has excellent anima, all his growths are servicable (even his concrete durability isn't too bad!). For me, he rushed out ahead of everyone and promoted about 5 maps before the rest, but staves on promotion means he was still hanging around babying everyone else while they caught up. Very nice.
Lilina: 7/10. I think that, in any other FE game, she'd suck. Mag is fine and all, but poor speed and accuracy are bad mojo on a mage; they kinda need to not be doubled and be sure they're killing whatever they fire at. Thanks to FE6 design, of the broken anima and slow enemies, a little Roy support brings her up to freaky realms. Slow start keeps her behind Lugh.
Ray: 4/10. I feel like... why, y'know? Dark magic is bad in FE6, and for general magey stuff you have two top-notch anima casters already. I suppose he can have an extra point for "well, there is the Apocalypse..." though? Sure.
Sophia: 2/10. I had a few resets on her map. She didn't cause them! So she can avoid liability territory. Good for her.
Hugh: Abstain. I don't even recognize this guy. Maybe I killed him?
Niime: 3/10. Pocket healer on the map she joins, at the least.
Erk: 5/10. Could be worse, and hey, you get him first in both Lyn and main game modes, so a few maps to himself to try for a level advantage. Or at least see if he turns out okay.
Canas: 5/10. Dark tomes are, unto themselves, pretty cool in FE7. Sadly, you need some good speed/con to offset their massive weight and Canas doesn't have either. Still, usable and has some niche uses if you put in the effort.
Pent: 8/10. Hm. Overall the best mage in the game probably? Plus starts with enough staves to use Physic (which he comes with~)
Nino: 3/10. Well, there's no real point to using her, but she's not too hard to keep alive and turns out great if you're bored enough to bother. So better than the likes of Sophia or something.
Lute: 5/10. As much mage as you'll get. Doesn't feel stand out though.
Saleh: 4/10. wants to be Pent. But so many do.
Ewan: 2/10. See, the other Trainees do this thing where they don't join in the mid-late game.
Knoll: 1/10. Join on a map that isn't goddamned desert.
Soren(9): 5/10. Servicable enough. Adept helps a bit.
Illyana(9): 2/10.
Tormod(9): 2/10.
Calill(9): 2/10.
Bastian(9): 2/10. Of course, help's Soren's case that the other mages are relatively late and no better than he is.
Ena(9): 2/10.
Nasir(9): Abstain.
Illyana(10): 3/10. Well, more warm bodies for the dawn brigade? They certainly go through them.
Tormod(10): 3/10. He's good enough on that one map.
Calill(10): 4/10. Ranged utility in 2-E is enough for this at least.
Soren(10): 4/10. He really hates his caps. Or at least, that's what I remember. He had good luck and still failed the Endgame cut.
Pelleas: Abstain.
Bastian(10): 3/10. He only really gets one map to play on before Endgame, so he can be Tormod.
Ena(10): 7/10. Bloodtide is good stuff.
Kurthnaga: 5/10. Y'know, if he didn't have to be raised so much, I could see going higher. Black Tide is a niche enough for this score, and in theory his tanky build and passable offense should be solid, but in practice it's not the right way to fight Endgame's bosses and that's all he really gets to fight.
Gareth: 6/10. Like Ena but with speed of greatest fail, so he might accidentally eat it.
Nasir(10): 4/10. Magic Breath is neat, but impractical. The last two maps are unkind to mages. Also makes White Tide fairly pointless. On the other hand, only so bad a free character in the "you can only take 10 people" Endgame can be.
-
Has Oliver been rated? Shouldn't he be with all these mages?
Illyana(10): 1/10 - Wastes xp and helps in no way when you have Aran and Nolan to quickly kill things.
Tormod(10): 3/10 - Better then Illyana and has a great skill.
Calill(10): 3/10 Starts with a long range Fire spell which is quite good. Not the best option.
Soren(10): 7/10 - Best mage in the game. Doesn't say much but thats how things are.
Pelleas: 6/10 - Failish speed but being able to use dark element is badass.
Bastian(10): 5/10 - Hey if you don't have a decent mage he fills in rather nicely.
Ena(10): 5/10 - Can actually put Blood tide to use unlike Gareth if you level her up enough.
Kurthnaga: 7/10 - He owns the hardest stage and boss in the game at least. Beyond that his stats aren't all that bad.
Gareth: 1/10 - Worst dragon.
Nasir(10): 8/10 - White Tide is actually decent and with magic based stats he isn't being OHKOed like Gareth is at times.
-
He presumably will be/was ranked with Lucius/Laura/Artur type folk, he's more of a light mage if you will. I can't find him in the topic though!
-
Think he's coming with the next set, i.e., Bishops. He's a Saint, so it makes some sense.
-
Yeah, putting Monks and such in the next set; they could have come here, but decided since they have the same class as Clerics, they fit better there. So Oliver is next round.
-
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8 - MVP, gets all the coolest stuff and the best stats. Low resources and a poor earlygame showing keep him from being Broken Main level.
Luna: 5 - Healer, usable enough physical during her stay. Definition of average temp to me.
Ramus: 4 - Starts fine, but falls out of usefullness so fast that he's a below-average temp. At least he leaves early.
Laike: DNR
Nash Rumack: 7 - All seven points for Random-clearing.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8 - It's been said. And I tend to value healers in general.
Mia Ausa: 5 - Meh.
Ghaleon: DNR
Kyle: 6 - Slightly better than meh because physicals don't drain resources.
Tempest: 4.5 - Works for his time as a temp, but he's so replaceable even then.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 6 - Good mage, but loses a point for always getting killed and causing me resets.
Lilina: 7 - Great mage, Roy support really saves her.
Ray: 5 - Usable mage! That's enough for average.
Sophia: 2 - Lolz.
Hugh: 4 - Useful anima mage replacement in case you got sick of resetting for Lugh.
Niime: 4 - Points for being a decent healer.
Erk: 6 - I always managed to get a lot of use out of Erk.
Canas: 4 - Can't say the same here.
Pent: 6 - Ended up about the same as Erk in practice due to less availability.
Nino: 3 - Feeding kills to underlevelled mages is my specialty! Still only gets a 3.
Lute: 8 - Of course!
Saleh: 5 - Useable mage.
Ewan: 2 - Die in a fire.
Knoll: 5 - Summoning bait is always useful.
Soren(9): 7 - Not quite Lute, but Soren's always near the top of my kill leader list.
Illyana(9): 2 - The first person I bench.
Tormod(9): 4 - Usable, but Soren's always so far ahead of him that I never see a reason for him unless I just want another mage, but in that case, there's...
Calill(9): 6 - Joins a little later, but requires no work!
Bastian(9): 2 - Yep.
Ena(9): 5 - Points for being able to damage Ashnard.
Nasir(9): 3 - Same as Ena, but you have to beat the Black Knight and that always ends up being more work than it's worth.
Illyana(10): 4 - As of Ch1-5, she's a good back-up ranged unit for softening things up for Micaiah to eat their delicious EXPs. Feel free to ignore this one as I'm not gonna be done with the game before votes get counted.
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Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 9/10. Really, I had minimal issues with his resources earlygame (but I'm used to resource conservation, SMT games) and his lategame really is stellar. That, plus him being the only real source of damage for a lot of the game... yeah.
Luna: 5/10. Sleep is godly. Healer is useful. Buffs are nice. Needed to not be a temp.
Ramus: 1/10. Crummy temp that wasn't even good when he was at his best, as far as I'm concerned.
Laike: DNR, don't remember.
Nash Rumack: 6.5/10. random clearing potential.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7/10. Eh. Sure, was definitely necessary as a healer, but the physical felt overhyped when I played through and she lacks much else.
Mia Ausa: 6/10. Offense mage~! Buffer~! ...neither role's terribly necessary in game outside of niche fights and bosses, but!
Ghaleon: DNR.
Kyle: 5/10. Main cast LVP, if only because he's Alex without the good skillset. Competent physical and a buff help, sure, but.
Tempest: DNR.
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Go Go Alanna rankings!
Alex Noah: 8
Luna: 7- early healer
Ramus: 3- warm body
Laike: DNR
Nash Rumack: 5
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8
Mia Ausa: 6- At least she can boost stats
Ghaleon: DNR
Kyle: 6
Tempest: 5- Warm Body (he can at least gain levels so he doesnt get DNR)
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 8
Lilina: 8
Ray: 6
Sophia: 2
Hugh: 5
Niime: 5
Erk: 5
Canas: 7 One word- Luna
Pent: 8
Nino: 5- 7 levels lower and had better stats than Erk becides HP? Yeah shes awesome if trained
Lute: 9
Saleh: 3- Pent but sucky
Ewan: 7- Tower abuse exists.
Knoll: 5- Promote at 10, summon
Soren(9): 8, he was pretty good, adept helps until her can double
Illyana(9): 7, she was pretty good when I used her
Tormod(9): 5
Calill(9): 7
Bastian(9): 3
Ena(9): 3
Nasir(9): 3
Illyana(10): 7, available in the most chapters. Awesome dragon killer!
Tormod(10): 3
Calill(10): 5
Soren(10): 8, best mage
Pelleas: 5
Bastian(10): 4
Ena(10): 8, blood tide
Kurthnaga: 8, night tide
Gareth: 1, worse Ena
Nasir (10): 8, white tide and free Nihil
-
Going for the most recent release of Lunar (PSP)
Alex: 8/10 MVP, but really doesn't stand out. He just works well with the rest of his PCs.
Luna: 4/10 healer but items are extra cheap and Cascade Song no longer boost offense
Ramus: 3/10 Yeah warm body.
Nash Rumack: 5/10 Status is complete garbage and is completely outclassed by Mia once she gets the Gale Staff. Gogo full MP refills after level ups! Useless against bosses. Even leaves the party for a while towards the end. LVP. Extra point is for having the best Limit break.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7/10 As a healer, she's kind of terrible (compared to Ronfar at least) but helps the party keep up with bosses' full screen attacks. Necessary in the group
Mia Ausa: 6/10 Better against bosses than Nash but has a weak early/midgame game against mooks. Then she gets the Gale Staff and Flameria and suddenly becomes MVP
Kyle: 6/10 Kyle goes well along with Alex as a bruiser. His techs got a bit stronger in this version of the game.
Tempest: 3/10 Like Ramus, warm body~
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 8/10
Lilina: 8/10 Anima magic is broken
Ray: 4/10 No Luna in FE6
Sophia: 0.5/10 GRAAHHHHHHHHHH
Hugh: 4/10 Bonus points for TANK MAGE
Niime: 2/10 UGLY OLD WOMAN
Erk: 6/10 At the mercy of the RNG.
Canas: 5/10 3 of those points go to Luna
Pent: 6.5/10 Pent's lack of speed in the late game bothers me too much, but really he's the only choice of mage to use on HHM.
Nino: 6.5/10 It's underrated on how easy it is to raise her in Night of Farewells. You can probably promote her a couple of levels early and still be better than Erk or Pent
Lute: 8.5/10 loli smash
Saleh: 3/10 No real use since you can grind
Ewan: 5/10 Heh, Towers exist for a reason
Knoll: 2/10 Look at that luck! KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLL
Soren(9): 7/10 Best mage on principle of availability
Illyana(9): 6/10 CAN USE REXBOLT!!
Tormod(9): 5/10 Comes too late to really bother
Calill(9): 6.5/10 Useable out of the gate and actually gains speed but lolknives
Bastian(9): 3/10 KNIFE MAGE
Ena(9): 6/10 Coolest way of killing Ashnard
Nasir(9): 5/10 Not as cool as a pink dragon defeating a mad king.
Illyana(10): 6/10 Thunder magic is not as bad as it seems (Arcthunder crit way more often that it should) and MOST AVAILABILITY!
Tormod(10): 3/10 Yeah join back in part 4 where you can get OHKOed
Calill(10): 6.5/10 Best mage since she uses fire and overall better caps but least availability.
Soren(10): 5/10 Those caps suck
Pelleas: 5/10 DARK MAGIC
Bastian(10): 4/10 Better but caps still suck
Ena(10): 5/10 Hay I hav blood tide
Kurthnaga: 5/10 chapter of invinciblity!
Gareth: 2/10 That speed....
Nasir (10): 3/10 Meh
-
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 7/10. Your best FE6 Mage. Shaky start, but gets pretty solid afterwards and has some solid ass supports all around
Lilina: 5.5/10. Glass cannon. In any other FE, Lilina would be pretty bad. In FE6 where Anima magic is pretty damn haxy, this type of mold can work. Somewhat.
Ray: 4/10. Support feed fodder mostly for Lugh. Can hold his own, but kinda shaky. And not-Anima magic in FE6 is pretty bleh.
Sophia: 0.5/10. Well, she's forced deployed on that map, and that Guiding Ring that only she can get at least allows you to sell it for money if you need it. Otherwise, lolololololololololol
Hugh: 3/10. If you're willing to dish out that huge amount of cash, then I guess he's pretty good. Just...why? You're usually better off stealing some of his junk if you don't care about him or you recruit him when he has taken massive stat penalties.
Niime: 2/10. OH GOD THE HP. Staff user, but...argh why
Erk: 5/10. I've never had a good Erk. He's nice early I suppose when you don't have Pent and Lucius isn't there. A decent support with Pris, though is pretty obslete once Pent joins.
Canas: 5/10. Dark magic has some neat spells, but Canas' stat spread is pretty average. Plus, he's at -1 AS before promo, and using anything else after promo still weighs him down. Oh yeah, and he has crap for supports. That probably brings him down to around here.
Pent: 7.5/10. Yowza. This is the mage you should be using in FE7. Even if the other mages catch up to him level wise, he's still probably ahead in weapon levels. Hi guys. I can shoe in as a healer OR an attacker when I start and I have an auto A support. Growths are kinda low, but who cares.
Nino: 1.5/10. Pure novelty if you're not running rankings. Yes, she gets pretty powerful. Yes, its not THAT difficult to level her up. Doesn't detract that she's taking EXP from the rest of the army. The return is just usually not worth it.
Lute: 8.5/10. Nino, if Nino joined at the beginning of the game AND had hax supports.
Saleh: 4.5/10. Usable. You usually have better, but he's not terrible.
Ewan: 1/10. Him on the other hand... (also lol to SUPER TRAINEE)
Knoll: 2.5/10. What NEB said. Summoners are kinda meh, but if you're using Knoll, you quick promote Knoll to Summoner and take advantage of it, because his stats and his spread blow. And at least the phantoms have some use.
Soren(9): 6/10. Servicable and quite solid along with some noticable evade (whee Ike). Early game suck though.
Illyana(9): 2/10. Uh...really? Her start is worse than Soren's. That's telling.
Tormod(9): 5/10. On one hand, Celerity. On the other hand, underlevelled. You could BEXP him a bunch I guess. Not sure if its worth the effort. On paper it is though since +2 move is just really good.
Calill(9): 6.5/10. Pretty damn good. Good weapon levels + good starting bases. Only downer is of course, lolknives instead of staves, but hey.
Bastian(9): 1/10. Is Bastian.
Ena(9): -Abstain- Never got her before.
Nasir(9): 2/10. I think...argh at that transformation time and then the crappy move just makes it worse. Have fun GETTING into attack range, while mounted units lol.
Illyana(10): 2.5/10. Edward, with less chapters to shine than Edward and is otherwise just as (if not more) terrible. I guess you could give her points for being a ferry (since if she dies, no one else can do it), but....yeah.
Tormod(10): 3.5/10. Exists for like 3 chapters and is pretty damn uber there. Comes back in 4-3 to suck it up a bunch.
Calill(10): 6/10. Your best FE10 Mage IMO. Calill has a less screen time, but she grows in the important areas better, and her end game performance is certainly a lot better too. Yay to not being stuck to a 32 speed cap.
Soren(10): 4/10. He's stuck in a field of pretty much uber units when he first joins and is nothing special himself. His speed needs work and the durability is pretty much non-fixable this time around. Bonus points for having an option to crown him though (if Mist dies and you need another healer (since uh...Rhys10))
Pelleas: 4/10. Kneejerk. I tried him once, and he's not terrible (great speed growth helps him out here). His weapons are kinda...underwhelming though. And needing to use a specialized magic type is also somewhat of a downer.
Bastian(10): 4.5/10. I...think. His raw stats are unimpressive on the whole, but the weapon levels are damn shiny.
Ena(10): 6/10. Kinda hard to place a raw value, but...think Ena is certainly above average. Especially since Blood tide is just so damn good.
Kurthnaga: 4/10. To his credit, he gets Formshift as well as a larger Capacity space to load more skills on to him. And E-3 for him and Ena can be EXP city. But Night Tide just isn't as good as Blood tide, and getting him caught up to be usable just takes way too long.
Gareth: 2/10. Tempted to give him lower, but Blood tide is that good. His durability actually sucks (haha 40 Defense that means NOTHING), so you have to use Wardwood + Barrier and Pure Waters, which restricts him more than Ena and can certainly give you more issues in keeping him alive than Kurth
Nasir(10): 6/10. Very short join period, but White Tide is also pretty damn sexy. And yeah, having an ACTUAL Res score here helps.
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Luna: 4/10 healer but items are extra cheap and Cascade Song no longer boost offense
My data suggests otherwise:
Attack: 27 damage // 34 damage // 43 damage
Cascade Song: Increases Str by 12, then 12 on second cast and 4 on third // Also increases Defence, but by an unknown amount. Receives 15 damage without a cast, then 9 on one, 6 on two and 2 on three [10 MP]
(Yeah, I still need to beat the fake Dragon Master but I don't have the PSP QQ)
(Notably after each cast of Cascade Song her damage DOES improve, as does Alex's. I admit I never cast it on RAMUS though.)
-
As always, cutting entire games that I don't know, so starting with FE8.
Lute: 9/10. Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute~
Saleh: 4/10. Too frail (by which I mean not evasive enough) to be of any use.
Ewan: 3/10. Useless.
Knoll: 3/10. I tried using him. I really did. But he starts way too underlevelled and useless to be worth anything, and that was on Ephraim's path. The summons are pretty pathetic, and it takes some real effort to get there.
Soren(9): 8.5/10. Barely behind Lute on grounds of an unevasive early-game. Once he gets going, he really gets going - he'll critical or Adept at least half the time, and he can easily kill on a double with even the weakest of tomes (and he almost always gets those doubles, except against swordsmasters, maybe.) (Absolute monster if given Vantage, but I'm ignoring that for purposes of rankings.)
Illyana(9): 6/10. Yikes. An even weaker early-game than Soren, and joins at a time when she can very easily get killed. Once she gets going, she's not bad, but not quite capable of killing, and mages really need to kill quickly.
Tormod(9): Abstain. He's usually dead for me within 2-3 stages.
Calill(9): Abstain. Already got Soren tearing shit up by this point, never needed another mage.
Bastian(9): 2/10. Except I tried using Bastian because he's an awesome character. That was a mistake and a half. >_>
Ena(9): 3/10. Same here. Useless dragon. *punts*
Nasir(9): 5/10. Not quite as useless dragon, but that horrendous movement combined with joining late is just painful. Really needs better damage to be worthwhile.
Illyana(10): Abstain. I've only run through FE10 once, need to replay to get a grasp on -everyone-.
Tormod(10): Abstain again.
Calill(10): And abstain again!
Soren(10): 8/10. Loses that bad early-game, but in exchange, just... isn't available for it. Otherwise, mostly the same.
Pelleas: Abstain, one run-through, etc, etc.
Bastian(10): Abstain again! I'm doing well here~
Ena(10): Abstain? Again? Yeah, guess so.
Kurthnaga: 5/10. Kurthnaga, meet Nasir9. You two are so similar, I'm sure you'll get along great.
Gareth: ahaha Abstain like I'm going to use that resistance in late-game.
Nasir(10): Abstain again! Wow, I really need to replay FE10.
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Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 7.5/10.
Luna: 6/10. Not bad when she's around.
Ramus: 4/10
Laike: DNR
Nash Rumack: 6/10
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8/10
Mia Ausa: 4/10
Ghaleon: DNR
Kyle: 4/10
Tempest: 3/10
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Erk: 5/10. Has this thing where he's never good and then gets owned by Pent.
Canas: 5/10.
Pent: 8/10. Godlike.
Nino: 1/10. Yeah right game.
Lute: 8/10. Great. She has been pretty stat-temperamental for me, 2 quite below average playthroughs and 1 crush-the-world playthrough. I recognize that she's a good PC though.
Saleh: 4/10.
Ewan: 1/10. Oh god trying to use him was so much pain. I've even tried twice.
Knoll: 2/10. One point for serving a minor role in C15.
Soren(9): 4.5/10. Mages are starting to get pretty strug in this game.
Illyana(9): 3.5/10. Even more strug.
Tormod(9): 4/10. Better than the others if you feed him EXP. He's actually pretty good if you do this (and I have) but blaaaah.
Calill(9): 5.5/10. Pretty good if you decide you want to use a mage for... some reason. Minus points for not having staves. She is decent enough to be slotted in at least.
Bastian(9): 1.5/10. No.
Ena(9): 3/10.
Nasir(9): 3/10.
Illyana(10): 3/10. Two points for a couple of maps of assisting the DB, but otherwise FUCK Ilyana. Such a goddamn shitty PC.
Tormod(10): 3/10. Jeigan Nino.
Calill(10): 6/10. Faster than the rest and gets staves!!! Godlike.
Soren(10): 4/10. Worse than in 9. I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to make Soren worse. Fuck this game. Soren is awesome.
Pelleas: 4/10. Best of the mages once he is levelled? Just uh underlevelled to the max.
Bastian(10): 5/10. Actually cool this time! Not around much though.
Ena(10): 6/10. Better than in 9. Two range and Blood Tide and blocking dragons oh my god. Indispensable against Irritating Bald Dude.
Kurthnaga: 5/10. Worse than Ena due to his Tide being worse, but he is a much better combat PC and is reasonably tanky and fills holes well.
Gareth: 1/10. Useless fools.
Nasir(10): 4/10. Better than the other two, but is not around for as key of maps.
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Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 7/10 - A bit slow to start, but good supports and gets pretty excellent later on.
Lilina: 6/10 - Gets away with having awful speed because her damage and supports are excellent. Easy to catch up.
Ray: 4/10 - He's... usable, and has that Lugh support to bring him up.
Sophia: 1/10 - She... gives you a guiding ring.
Hugh: 3/10 - Loses two points for the money thing; good if you for some reason spend it.
Niime: 3.5/10 - Spare staff user, and she can tank magic if you're desperate.
Erk: 4.5/10 - Decent at the start but never really pans out.
Canas: 6/10 - Slow, but excellent res and hits pretty hard even without Luna - with it he wrecks things.
Pent: 8/10 - Ol' reliable. Starting weapon levels rock, and he'd be somewhat usable at endgame with no level ups.
Nino: 3.5/10 - Not really necessary, but a monster if you feel like feeding her some kills.
Lute: 9/10 - Nino that you have from the start.
Saleh: 3/10 - Ehhh. He can fill in a slot, but that's not something you need in FE8.
Ewan: 3/10 - Worse than Lute, a tower time sink to catch up.
Knoll: 2.5/10 - Summons are alright.
Soren(9): 7.5/10 - Good offense, but needs a better start and a little more evasion. Has nice supports. Adept kicks in pretty often!
Illyana(9): 5.5/10 - The Str and better Lightning levels help her match Soren's damage, but she never dodges as well, has a worse natural skill, and her supports aren't quite as good. Still perfectly usable.
Tormod(9): 4.5/10 - Really good if you catch him up, but you've already got Soren and the already leveled up Calill is coming soon.
Calill(9): 6/10 - Hard to go wrong with, though she wishes she had staves.
Bastian(9): 2/10 - So worthless. Isn't it sad?
Ena(9): 3/10 - Needs caught up and still isn't really good.
Nasir(9): 3.5/10 - Ena without the catch-up.
Illyana(10): 4.5/10 - Worse than FE9 by a long shot, but she helps the DB and uh... zaps dragons.
Tormod(10): 3/10 - Needs to actually exist.
Calill(10): 7/10 - Now has staves, and can contribute the whole time you have her.
Soren(10): 4/10 - Less damage. Less evade. Less availability. Doesn't have 'good supports' as an advantage any more.
Pelleas: Abstain
Bastian(10): 3.5/10 - If you happen to need a mage at the end, he's alright.
Ena(10): 6/10 - Blood Tide, fuck yeah. Tanks good too.
Kurthnaga: 6/10 - Worse Tide, but an actual decent combat unit if you catch him up. My strategy of letting him slaughter dozens of his brethren may not be the norm however >_>
Gareth: 2/10 - Blood Tide, only anything magic explodes him.
Nasir(10): 4/10 - Magic tank is nice, as is White Tide.
-
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8/10. MP is an issue if you want to do anything other than Sword Dance / Vigor but hey, just having those Dragon spells as backup is pretty handy.
Luna: 7/10. Frailish but that is not a big problem in Lunar early game where you just keep her in the back with a bow and most enemies can't reach her quickly anyway. Cascade Song is hax, and cheap healing is obviously useful.
Ramus: 3/10. Obviously becomes a joke by the end but hey, warm body. Lunar is a game where you definitely appreciate having him at all rather than no one.
Laike: DNR.
Nash Rumack: 3/10. Can status out enemies with Sleep, sure, but some dungeons resist it, and he's pretty terrible otherwise. Worst character vs. bosses 'till Thunderbolt, too.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7/10. Essential, obviously, thanks to the MT healing + regen + eventually revive. Still feels less useful than Luna? Conflicted since Healers in Lunar are essential but she's pretty much only that.
Mia Ausa: 3/10. Lunar Mages. I guess she speeds up the buffing game later and can toss items, and hits elemental weaknesses more commonly than Nash does.
Ghaleon: DNR. As pointed out you can't even XP grind with Ghaleon.
Kyle: 6/10. Feels like I'm underrating him, as he is your #2 damage dealer vs. bosses, and crucial front-line support for cleaning out randoms. Just obviously suffers in comparison with Alex.
Tempest: 5/10. Exists.
Random rant: Something Lunar2 improved on Lunar1 was that you fought every boss fight in Lunar 1 the exact same way. Whee power up Alex & Kyle to the max, then spam Sword Dance / Power Slash which will do 4x the damage of the mages. Ah well.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Erk: 5/10?
Canas: 4/10? Unimpressed with Dark Magic.
Pent: 8/10. The man.
Nino: 2/10. No I am not going to kill feed you so I can have a slightly better character for the finale at the cost of making about 3 missions extremely dangerous to resets from random wyvern rides sticking a lance in you.
Lute: 8/10. Dodgy, doubles and kills everything. Lacks Tana & Eph's range but whatevs.
Saleh: 4/10. Slightly less broken Pent in a game with more broken competition.
Ewan: 2/10? Allegedly not bad if you build him up but screw that considering how late you get him.
Knoll: 3/10. 0 LUCK DONOTWANT.
Soren(9): 6/10. Doubles and kills everything with Elwind / a forged Wind tome (unless species weakness is in play, then switch). *Everything*, I was able to take out hi-resistance units with Soren just fine normally. Dies to a stiff breeze so balanced but hey. I tossed him the early Seraphic Robe on my Hard mode playthrough.
Illyana(9): 4/10. Soren trading speed for a tiny bit more power. BAD TRADE. But not useless for some of those mid missions so I can't hate on her too much.
Tormod(9): --- Didn't use.
Calill(9): --- Didn't use.
Bastian(9): --- Didn't use, but looked bad.
Ena(9): --- Didn't use.
Nasir(9): 4/10. TOO DANG SLOW get some move. At least he's tough.
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Lute: 8/10. Dodgy, doubles and kills everything. Lacks Tana & Eph's range but whatevs.
She doesn't lack Eph's range if she promotes to Mage Knight! Which is better for her in-game, mounted+high move > 3 more power in the very endgame taking average stats. Unless you feel not having Light Magic is a crippling loss, but non-Anima magic in FE8 is kind of ungood.
-
Leonardo: 1.5/10. He is actively a liability early on since his death means game over, and his stats are terrible. I don't give the bow much credit since that is after the hardest point of the game, and even with that he's still worse than the other two snipers.
Volug: 8/10- Always good but never the best in combat for the DB thanks to uber guests, but no one matches his avaiability+movement+durability combo.
Nailah: 9/10. What everyone else said.
Lethe(10): 4/10- She was very useful on part 2 maps, at least.
Astrid(10): 0.5/10- Loses half a point because her dying early costs you Paragon.
Shinon(10): 7/10- STR's a problem at first, but... he starts ramming into caps fast and it isn't hard to get his STR up after that. Surprisingly durable as well.
Rolf(10): 7/10. Little weaker start than Shinon, but man that offense is awesome.
Lyre: 1/10- Fails.
Ranulf(10): 6/10. Good but the DB has better options.
Jill(10): 8.5/10- What everyone else said.
Marcia(10): 8/10- Is awesome.
Haar(10): 9/10- Super durable+damaging. Also fast if you blow a speedwings on him. Yikes.
Janaff(10): 7/10- See Ulki.
Ulki(10): 7/10- By the time they joined they were behind most of the Greil mercs in offense. Excellent durability and flight, but Laguz aren't my thing.
Sigrun: Didn't use.
Tanith(10): Didn't use.
Tibarn(10): 9/10- Damn good.
Guy: 7.5/10. Very possible to get RNG fucked, but he is pretty dominiant otherwise.
Raven: 9/10. I appreciate him more after trying to use Eliwood and Dorcas for offense. Heroes are pretty cool.
Karel(7): 2/10. Found him to be actively bad.
Harken: Haven't used him since the first playthrough.
Karla: 1/10
Edward: 2/10. Wrong game to be an offensively geared swordmaster. If he was in say FE7 he'd probably be the best PC in the game. FE10 however rewards concrete durability far more than offense. He isn't even especially good at offense in the DB until late either. Too many lancers around+superior guest options.
Zihark(10): 8/10- Not as tanky as Volug, but generally superior on offense.
Vika: Didn't use.
Nealuchi: Didn't use.
Lucia(10): 3/10. Useful for two maps, which beats Edward being useful for no maps.
Mia(10): 8.5/10. What the fucking christ. THe only reason she isn't higher is that part 3 has tons of high defense enemies that she can't quite one round. Shame for her that she can't get an armorslayer!
Naesala(10):
Stefan(10): 7/10. 27 strength on a swordmaster?! That is Ko/10 balance.
Aran: 5/10. Good short term, terrible long term thanks to speed.
Meg: 3.5/10. Interesting take on an armor user, but she is way too reliant on the RNG to be remotely competent on offense. The DB project crew (Ed, Leo, Meg) don't really have a large window to be made competent either. If they aren't catching on by 1-5 you pretty much hvae to ditch them.
Tauroneo(10): 5/10. Very useful wall.
Nephenee(10): 7/10. What everyone else said. Durability isn't as good as before, but she's still fast in a game where you really need quick units.
Brom(10): 5/10. Solid in part 2 but outshone by Gatrie in part 3.
Danved: 2/10. Useless outside of killing one boss thanks to his slightly better speed. Not durable, damaging, or even really fast.
Gatrie(10): 8/10. Loses a point for the movement issues, but my god the offense.
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Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 9/10. Covers all bases well, a much needed meat shield, etc.
Luna: 6/10. Healer w/ Cascade Song, being fragile hurts though.
Ramus: 3/10. He's not horrible in the first dungeon or two, and he's still a warm body even when he starts being crappy.
Laike: DNR. He's actually around for a legit dungeon, but that dungeon feels geared just for "Watch Laike kick ass!"
Nash Rumack: 4/10. Speed isn't as useful in this game as others cause I distinctly remember enemies being generally slow, he's worthless on bosses until Lightning Bolt, and even after that, he's merely "ok", status is alright though.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8/10. Healer you rely on for much longer than Luna, and be damned if you could finish the game without her!
Mia Ausa: 4/10. Crowd Control is good, but still kind of limited, frail, her buffs aren't as useful as they should be cause Alex/Kyle have the important one as is.
Ghaleon: DNR. Worse than Laike cause he's not even around for a realistic time period.
Kyle: 6/10. A 2nd meat shield who is much needed as Alex cannot take all the hits himself, and pretty much half your offense against bosses (Alex being the other half.)
Tempest: 4/10. He's better than Ramus when you have him! Uh, yeah.
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 6/10. Decent.
Lilina: 6/10. Found the Roy Support really helpful, as well as getting Gonzales and GARRET!! to join.
Ray: 5/10. Decent Shaman, but joins a bit late, and kind of want more out of him.
Sophia: 0.5/10. I wanna give her a 0, but she does get you a free Guiding Ring if kept alive, and must stay alive to get one of the legendaries, so I'll give her half a point.
Hugh: 4/10. Joins too late and costs too much to really see use; additionally, if you spend less, he gets much worse to boot.
Niime: 2/10. Good Physic user, but that's literally all she's good for. If she so much as sees combat, she's pretty much dead.
Erk: 4/10. He's alright during those brief stints Lucius isn't around!
Canas: 6/10. Has some unique applications like Luna for tank bosses that no one else can apply, and is an extra source of good offense for the Final Boss due to that as well.
Pent: 8.5/10. Freaking awesome; Prepromo with great starting stats for the level, and high rank in Staves to boot making him a very good healer if need be.
Nino: 3/10. Underleveled project unit, this wouldn't be so bad if she had more than like 7 maps to catch up...also, when caught up, you end up just saying to yourself "Wait, why didn't I just use Pent, and have a slightly worse unit in the long run for a much better unit DURING those past 5 maps?"
Lute: 8.5/10. Lilina+.
Saleh: 4/10. Pent-
Ewan: 2/10. Starts off worse than Nino, but the nature of FE8 makes him easier to raise, I guess...but not convinced that's enough to give him the same rating, cause Nino isn't COMPLETELY useless when underleveled, Ewan kind of is.
Knoll: 4/10. Yeah, Summons save his worth a lot, but that's all he can do.
Soren(9): 6/10. OK for what he is.
Illyana(9): 4/10. Less OK.
Tormod(9): 5/10. On paper, better than Soren, but joins too late and underleveled such that catching him up isn't worth it.
Calill(9): 7/10. Pent without the staves.
Bastian(9): 2/10. Saleh without the staves...and significantly more suck.
Ena(9): 4/10. Not too bad for 2 chapters, but nothing special either. Can hurt Ashnard at least.
Nasir(9): 4/10. He's better than Ena if you get him, but getting him isn't trivial.
Illyana(10): 2/10. Good for two maps, but suck after that; pity, she's the only Rexbolt user.
Tormod(10): 3/10. REALLY good Part 1, but then fails to exist and...yeah...
Calill(10): 7/10. Better competition in this game, but she can use staves now. Guess it evens out.
Soren(10): 7/10. Found his solid enough for what he does; also helps work away one of Ike's only fears (Elthunder Crits) due to the Bond.
Pelleas: 4/10. On paper, he looks pretty good, but he joins a little too late; also NG+ only.
Bastian(10): 5/10. Pretty damn good in one map...but one map only.
Ena(10): 6/10. Blood Tide, and giving her Imbue makes her NEVER need staves or Concoctions, which is a nice perk.
Kurthnaga: 5/10. Really damned good...if caught up...which is definitely NOT happening. He's still tanky and Night Tide is cool.
Gareth: 2/10. Extra Blood Tide is good, but he's a major liability on BOTH of his only maps due to the Speed. Waste of absurd defense.
Nasir(10): 6/10. White Pool should really give him a higher rating, but he exists for literally only 2 maps, so I can't realistically give him more. The awesome Res is handy for all those pure Magic fights though.
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in ur threadz, debating ur ratingz
meat shield
I'm going to have to take issue with this; Lunar enemies target whoever the hell they want despite the slight positioning elements in the game (IIRC it's a mix of "target: random", "target: lowest HP", and "target: Alex", with the first dominating), so meatshielding isn't really an appropriate term for the game, and high durability is mostly wasted (never mind that Lunar's durability curve is fairly tight anyway outside elemental resistances).
Also, Ike has three other bonds besides Soren (two with frontliners like himself, and the last one is Mist, who while even more fragile than Soren has the advantage of the bond being +10 instead of +5). That really feels like too minor a point to bring up here.
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Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8/10. All around solid character. Great for both clearing out cannon fodder enemies and inflict damage on bosses. Most of his skills were held back by MP issues though which prevents him from being overpowered.
Luna: 6/10. Healer with a good MP pool. Lacks damage output.
Ramus: 3/10. Warm body and so on while it still counted.
Laike: DNR.
Nash Rumack: 6/10. Good for randoms, but really bad for bosses. He is faster than the fighters which is a big plus. His status can be useful, but the hard hitting enemies makes testing their accuracy way to risky for my taste.
Jessica De'Alkirk: 8/10. Healer with enough damage output to matter against randoms. As a rule, her contribution will lead to one more enemy killed in round 1 which means she significantly lowers her own MP expediency.
Mia Ausa: 7/10. Like Nash she's best for randoms, but her buffing makes her better against bosses. She also has a better selection of offensive spells. Unfortunately, she suffers from speed issues for a while.
Ghaleon: DNR.
Kyle: 7/10. Like Alex, but somewhat weaker. He has a worse skillset, but for 95% of the game it doesn't matter since fighters rarely need something else than attack and their respective single target move.
Tempest: 6/10. He plays similar to mages in terms that he area of effect nukes them and doesn't have a high single target damage move. For the dungeon he joins in he is really useful though since you don't have Mia. Also, combining his Flash Arrow with Nash's sleep makes really short work of cannon fodder enemies since Flash Arrow is physical and sleep makes physical attacks auto critical.
Anyway, about speed. Being faster than enemies is rarely a problem since they tend to be slow. However, you really want mages to be faster than fighters. Let's say that Alex has three attacks and only need two to kill an enemy after the mages nuked it. If the mages goes before Alex, he will kill one and then use his last attack on another enemy. However, if Alex is faster he will use all three attacks on the same enemy wasting one of the attacks. Chance is Kyle will also waste one attack and with two attacks to kill one enemy it makes one less killed. In my experience that extra enemy increases the damage you take by about 50% which has a very significant impact on Jessica's MP expedience and since enemies hits rather hard you at least quadruples the chance that one character will be knocked out.
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Soren(9): 6. Found him pretty good at destroying myself. Adept+Ate Laguz Up+Solid against flyers+Decent game long 2 range attack+Mine got good growths overall
llyana(9): 3. Uh...also good growths.
Tormod(9): 2. Too late for me to growth abuse as much as the other two.
Calill(9): 3. See that. Did she get knives or was that Bastian
Bastian(9): 1. Horrible stats. Only use seemed to be if every other mage (and Mist) had died...unless he had knives locked...
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Calill and Bastian are both knives only.
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Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8/10
Luna: 6/10
Ramus: 4/10
Laike: 6/10
Nash Rumack: 7/10
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7/10
Mia Ausa: 6/10
Ghaleon: 6/10
Kyle: 6/10
Tempest: 3/10
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh:
Lilina:
Ray:
Sophia:
Hugh:
Niime:
Erk: 8/10
Canas: 2/10
Pent: 7/10
Nino: 4/10
Lute: 9/10
Saleh: Who?/10
Ewan: 6/10
Knoll: 2/10
Soren(9): 4/10
Illyana(9): 6/10
Tormod(9): 3/10
Calill(9): 3/10
Bastian(9): 2/10
Ena(9): 6/10
Nasir(9): 6/10
Illyana(10): 6/10
Tormod(10): 6/10
Calill(10): 6/10
Soren(10): 5/10
Pelleas:
Bastian(10): 2/10
Ena(10): 7/10
Kurthnaga: 7/10
Gareth: 4/10
Nasir(10): 5/10
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Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete:
Alex Noah: 8.26
Luna: 5.38
Ramus: 3.07
Laike: N/A
Nash Rumack: 5.56
Jessica De'Alkirk: 7.58
Mia Ausa: 5.36
Ghaleon: N/A
Kyle: 5.02
Tempest: 4.18
Fire Emblem Sages, Druids and Dragons:
Lugh: 7.00
Lilina: 6.85
Ray: 4.91
Sophia: 1.78
Hugh: 3.50
Niime: 2.95
Erk: 5.09
Canas: 5.06
Pent: 7.31
Nino: 3.05
Lute: 8.23
Saleh: 4.07
Ewan: 3.24
Knoll: 2.89
Soren(9): 6.08
Illyana(9): 4.42
Tormod(9): 4.38
Calill(9): 5.27
Bastian(9): 2.07
Ena(9): 3.75
Nasir(9): 3.69
Illyana(10): 3.85
Tormod(10): 3.59
Calill(10): 5.75
Soren(10): 5.35
Pelleas: 4.81
Bastian(10): 4.28
Ena(10): 6.38
Kurthnaga: 5.81
Gareth: 2.68
Nasir(10): 5.58
Best Rating of this Session: Alex Noah w/ 8.26
Worst Rating of this Session: Sophia w/ 1.78
Ghaleon and Laike get the BOOT since they failed to administer more votes than DNRs.
Moving on, WE ARE ON THE LAST OF FIRE EMBLEM PEOPLE! Yes, after this session, you never have to look at Fire Emblem again or something!
In any event...
Breath of Fire:
Ryu:
Nina:
Sr-1:
Sr-2:
Sr-3:
Bo:
Karn:
Gobi:
Ox:
Deis:
Mogu:
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen:
Chad:
Clarine:
Saul:
Astol:
Cath:
Cecilia:
Yodel:
Serra:
Matthew:
Lucius:
Priscilla:
Legault:
Jaffar:
Renault:
Moulder:
Colm:
Artur:
Natasha:
L'Arachel:
Rennac:
Rhys(9):
Volke(9):
Sothe(9):
Laura:
Sothe(10):
Heather:
Rhys(10):
Oliver:
Volke(10):
REMINDER: DO NOT CHANGE NAMES. Don't go "well, they're called this in the game, so I'm calling them that here!" Its not funny and is just dickish. I say this here cause I know at least someone is going to be cute; I'm not counting your vote if you do that.
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I haven't played but like 15 minutes of BoF1... but I've no idea what Sr-1, 2, and 3 are. Out of curiosity, I request an explanation.
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They're soldiers.
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They're soldiers who join Nina (and later Ryu) early in the game. They apparently are not worthy of real names.
Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8.5/10. Boomerang death god. I wish his tanking was more proactive, but aside from that, boomerangs off high speed are great for randoms, and dragons are great for bosses.
Nina: 8/10. Initiative healing is sexy. Wish she had MT healing, though.
Sr-1: 3/10. Bad.
Sr-2: 5/10. Competent but uninspiring. Correct me if I'm mixing them up, but I don't think I am.
Sr-3: DNR, you don't fight anything notable with him.
Bo: 5/10. His lightning magic makes a mockery of the bosses you fight before you get dragons. After that he tails off fairly badly.
Karn: 8/10. Fusions wreck things rather nicely, though he's one-dimensional and if does go down (ID) it sucks.
Gobi: 1.5/10. Half a point because his magic is good against Pincher.
Ox: 4/10. Can sub in for a quick initiative heal if need be.
Deis: 9/10. Crazy HP, speed, and damage.
Mogu: 1/10. Hahahaha.
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 3/10. The speed/durability combo limits her potential. Why use her after you get Clarine?
Chad: 5/10. Does thiefy stuff. Can provide a decent support for Lugh for all that he does have other options.
Clarine: 8.5/10. Is your best healer and your best wall. THIS GAME MAKES NO SENSE.
Saul: 5/10.
Astol: 6/10. More sturdy than Chad. Both maintain decent scores because you'll often want to use both.
Cath: 0/10. YOU'RE BETTER OFF KILLING CATH.
Cecilia: 2/10. 11 Magic and C staff rank makes her the worst of the game's three filler staff users, sadly.
Yodel: 3/10. Doesn't feel as useful as Niime (fewer chapters, less magic, though better durability if you care) but better than Cecilia? This works.
Serra: 5/10. She's all right. Only all right, suffers from being outclassed by Pris.
Matthew: 6/10. Is a thief. Supports Guy which is fairly cool.
Lucius: 7/10. Offence is sexy. Defence isn't. Also, initial C staves on promo gives him another leg up on Canas and Erk, not that he needed it.
Priscilla: 7.5/10. Serra has nothing on Pris' +2 move, and her supports (Guy, Oswin, Raven, Lucius...) are better too.
Legault: 6/10. Doesn't have the supports, but has better stats than Matt.
Jaffar: 5/10. Okay lategame filler.
Renault: 2/10. Workable filler staff user but oh god the Magic stat ugh.
Moulder: 3/10. Giving Vanessa and/or Colm a second support doesn't hurt, but healer/flyer and healer/thief supports are fairly impractical. Eh. He himself just unimpresses forever, and outside support range he's a crit away from death far too often.
Colm: 8/10.
Artur: 6/10. Pretty decent, rounds out the party nicely in terms of supports, just lacks Lucius' oomph.
Natasha: 6/10. Best overall healer.
L'Arachel: 3.5/10. Has the aforementioned move, mainly, though it's only 1 point in this game. Stats make up for the level some.
Rennac: 4/10. Filler rogue.
Rhys(9): 6/10. Serviceable enough healer. Don't find the durability too big a problem, although he only rare ever has offence even after promo.
Volke(9): 7/10. Steals stuff, won't die to a sneeze.
Sothe(9): 4/10. See Rennac I guess, he's not as good statwise but on the other hand he does save you some money compared to Volke?
Laura: 5/10. Healing helps other PCs get turns and DB has lots of chokepoint maps to make her series-worst durability less important. Hype for her as a longterm character baffles me, Laura played properly shouldn't hit Level 10 by the end of Part 1.
Sothe(10): 8/10. Awesome jeigan use, has thiefy use too.
Heather: 5/10. Mostly for a few maps where she's your only thief.
Rhys(10): 4/10. Outside wasting a Master Crown on him, Mist feels better.
Oliver: 1.5/10. Just... why would you use him, he's clearly behind Elincia and Bastian for a filler staff user at endgame. Probably crown'd Pelleas too on a NG+. 20 speed? Ack.
Volke(10): 6/10. Kills 4-5 dead then pretty good endgame.
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Damnit Elf, stop being so helpful.
Ryu: 9/10. Eh. I went back and forth on about every rank here. Boomerang of doom destroys randoms, dragons do wonders against bosses (especially Agni). Does everything really well, but...considering I was debating on a much lower score, I can't give higher than this.
Nina: 7.1/10. The MT healing is late, and barely matters. Early on, really helpful, and even late, the support spells (which you'd think at first glance are useless!) are very good. Still feels like she's not integral to the team in the way the others can be. Items always felt way too powerful.
Sr-1: 6.1/10. Good!
Sr-2: 2.3/10. Eh. Always died for me, until I leveled him.
Sr-3: 6/10. Better than a lot of the permanent cast.
Bo: 4/10. Fuses with Karn can only be so bad.
Karn: 9/10. Even the early fusions are nice, and you can get that awesome IceDR so early...Puka in the end smashes things up good, especially with Mrbls.
Gobi: 4/10. Fuses with Karn can only be so bad.
Ox: 4/10. Fuses with Karn can only be so bad.
Deis: 9/10. Fast magic. Overall excellent stats.
Mogu: 4/10. Wishes he could fuse with Karn. Still, initiative run is...cool?
Ellen: What?
Chad: Who?
Clarine: 9.1/10. Pretty awesome. Not as good as Lilina, but works wonders - kind of slow start isn't too bad, but does suck a bit.
Saul: Potato?
Astol: WHERE IS MY MOTHER!?
Cath: 7.5/10. Only thief in the game, which counts for a lot. Sucks for combat, but...yeah. You need a thief.
Cecilia: Zuh?
Yodel: Huh?
Serra: 8.8/10. Excellent overall healer.
Matthew: 8.7/10. Is present more!
Lucius: 8.9/10. Can attack earlier than Serra, which...is worth a little more.
Priscilla: 8.8/10. Longer to build up than Serra...but better once there.
Legault: 8.7/10. Better stats, comes with Member Card!
Jaffar: 6.7/10. Decent enough, but losing stealing sucks...though less impactful by that stage.
Renault: 6.6/10. Makes a decent replacement at the end.
Moulder: 8.5/10. Uber CON. Slayer is also awesome at the end.
Colm: 8/10. Stealing!
Artur: 8/10. Worse than Lucius easily.
Natasha: 7.9/10. Not as durable as Moulder, but otherwise the same.
L'Arachel: 8.9/10. Priscilla, but...better overall.
Rennac: 7.5/10. Stealing! And replaces Colm if you make him an Ass!
Rhys(9): 7/10. Only Priest is...something. LUK and SPD at least don't completely suck.
Volke(9): 7/10. Eh...
Sothe(9): 4/10. Can...steal?
Laura: 9.6/10. One of the best in the DB. Tanks, damage...has everything, except for good starting skills. Still owns.
Sothe(10): 8.7/10. DB! The other tank after Laura. And can steal. Trails off FAR more than Laura does in the end, but...helps a lot early.
Heather: 7.5/10. Steals...blah, why couldn't she be better ;_;
Rhys(10): 2.2/10. Feels far, far worse this game.
Oliver: 2.2/10. Uh...at least as good as Rhys?
Volke(10): 7.6/10. Better than FE9, and at least can damage things in the end...damn you Sothe/Heather not getting better weapons!
-
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: hay guize 20% speed growth, 0 base def, and 5% def growth totally awesome. 1/10
Chad: Has utility and Lugh support, but little else. 5/10
Clarine: Best healer in the game. 7/10
Saul: Is a more solid option than Ellen at least. 4/10
Astol: Well if you don't want to rase Chad, he's there. 5/10
Cath: Uh free lockpicks. 0/10
Cecilia: Uh well, the stats are trashy but anima mage can only be so bad. Then you remember that she joins on a freakin' desert map, for which I dock her a point. 1/10
Yodel: uh staff levels. 2/10
Serra: Not really impressed with her. 3/10
Matthew: Eh. Thieving is only worth so much, and it feels less useful than it did in FE6, and when there's no thieving to be done you're essentially blowing a slot to make Guy slightly better. Cruddy starting luck also hurts some, even if the growth is good. 4/10
Lucius: Whee glass cannon. 10 base speed is good and he has the magic stat to make light magic not suck. 7/10
Priscilla: Not as good as Clarine but not bad. 6/10
Legault: Well if you don't want to go through the trouble of raising Matthew he's there. 4/10
Jaffar: Lack of caring. 2/10
Renault: uh fortify staff. 1.5/10
Moulder: Needs less garbage luck, though Vanessa/Colm supports are nice. 4/10
Colm: Now we're talking. There's a fair amount to swipe in FE8 and Colm can hold his own as a combat unit fairly well, too. Having the best support in the game is gravy. 7/10
Artur: Lucius trading a bit of offense for a bit more evasion/concrete. Also has Lute support. 6/10
Natasha: Better stat spread than Moulder, worse supports. Think she comes out ahead but honestly not by much, since outside of speed the bases aren't much to look at. 4.5/10
L'Arachel: PROJECT HEALER AWW YEAH. On the one hand, has more time than Nino, on the other hand, you can actually get Nino up to speed in the space of one chapter. Yeah no, fuck off. 1/10
Rennac: Godlike Res/10. (this is actually a 2/10)
-
Laura: 10/10 - Invaluable. Owns Ike badly in 3-13!
Sothe(10): 7/10 Stealing things is great but its a shame there is never much worth stealing. Brom's disarm helps but it comes a bit late. Sucky at endgame but can tank for micky at least.
Heather: 2/10 - Likely to die and all her stages are jam packed with enemies. Trying to steal on those maps will get you killed.
Rhys(10): 2/10 - The Mercs don't need healing. Also is outclassed by Laura.
Oliver: 7/10 - His battle theme plays whenever you battle someone with him. Its a nice change of pace but beyond that he is a nice filler mage.
Volke(10): 6/10 - Good but will always be at the bottem of the list for people you want to take into endgame. Sothe covers stealing and Volke isn't so good he can't be replaced by the many units you've trained by that point.
Write in:
3-13 Archer: 10/10 - I think 3-13 is a pretty cool guy. eh kills Laguz and doesnt afraid of anything.
-
Breath of Fire:
Can't vote.
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 3 - Early enough to be useful, but outclassed.
Chad: 5 - Average.
Clarine: 6 - Pretty good healer.
Saul: 4 - Better than Ellen, but still not great.
Astol: 5 - Average.
Cath: 4 - Crappy unit, but I'm leaning towards Thief utility saving any of the crappy thieves from ever being less useful than a 4.
Cecilia: 3 - Not even average.
Yodel: I don't even remember.
Serra: 7 - Early use, becomes a decent Light mage later on. Hector, Matthew, and Erk supports had their uses.
Matthew: 6 - Decent unit + thief utility.
Lucius: 7.5 - Awesome glass cannon early, though he evens out with the other Light magic users towards the middle.
Priscilla: 6.5 - Mobile healer! Dies more easily than she should, causing infuriating resets until you give up and use Serra instead. But I recognize that she can end up pretty awesome.
Legault: 3 - Snrk.
Jaffar: 6 - Needed to join earlier, but I found him useful when I tried him out.
Renault: 2 - Snrk.
Moulder: 4 - Joining this early can't really be much of a handicap.
Colm: 8 - Oh what the hell
Artur: 6.5 - Useable, but Lute obsoletes him for the most part.
Natasha: 6 - Good healer! Never really becomes anything else.
L'Arachel: 7.5 - Mobile healer that saved my good units more times than I care to remember.
Rennac: 3 - Snrk.
Rhys(9): 7 - Kinda invaluable.
Volke(9): 7 - Kinda invaluable.
Sothe(9): 2 - Get thee to a sequel!
Laura: 4 - She has yet to be useful beyond helping Micaiah EXP-grind with Sacrifice.
Sothe(10): 6 - Awesome early, loses 2 points for being a useless Jeigan who is forced at endgame. At least he ensured that you'd have Stealing in the last chapters.
Heather: 4 - Utility in the chapters without Sothe and that's about it. ;_;
Rhys(10): 3 - Huge drop in usefulness due to competition.
Oliver: Didn't get him.
Volke(10): 4 - Too late to be really helpful.
-
I'm just gonna put - for abstain from now on. There are too many to count normally. >.>
Moulder: -
Colm: 7/10. Good support, a good weapon and standard thief benefits. Not too strong, which lets him down later on in the game.
Artur: -
Natasha: -
L'Arachel: 8/10. Good healer, decent-ish offence and good mobility. Definitely useful.
Rennac: 2/10. BUT BUT BUT RES! Yeah, no worth over Colm.
Rhys(9): 5/10. Doesn't get screwed over as far as healing goes, but... ugh, that durability and lack of decent offence is terrible. Also loses half a point to Mist for not being available against Burger King.
Volke(9): 6/10. Can be decent, but needs an Occult for it. Gains a point for being the only thief for a long time, and the only thief ever worth using.
Sothe(9): 1/10. ahahaha no promotion? *punt*
Laura: 3/10. Useless frail healer who can barely even heal worth anything. Only points come from the fact that she is the DB's only healer who doesn't drain her own health at the same time.
Sothe(10): 8/10. Pretty much a lifesaver throughout the DB sections, and still worth using towards endgame (barely)
Heather: -
Rhys(10): -
Oliver: -
Volke(10): 2/10. Too late to be useful.
Wait, did we already rank Micaiah? I don't remember seeing her, but I've not been paying much attention.
-
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 3/10 - Nothing special.
Chad: 6/10 - First thief, auto-recruit.
Clarine: 8/10 - Mobile healer with decent attack magic later on, and is also the fucking wind with the right supports.
Saul: 5/10 - He's... there.
Astol: 5/10 - Thieves, they're very useful here.
Cath: 3/10 - Except when they run away with your stuff.
Cecilia: 2/10 - Just awful. Only points are for being an Anima mage in a game that really likes them.
Yodel: 2.5/10 - Staff levels! Inferior to Niime anyways.
Serra: 6/10 - Lyn story, isn't bad later on and has good supports.
Matthew: 5.5/10 - Thieves are less valuable here, but he can kill things. Promotion loses some thiefy benefits, but makes him a decent combat unit later on.
Lucius: 7/10 - Glass cannon-tastic.
Priscilla: 6.5/10 - Half a point over Serra for mobility. Not a full point over because of slightly lesser supports.
Legault: 4/10 - Spare thief.
Jaffar: 5/10 - Decent combat unit; helpful if you suck as bad as I did on my first ever playthrough.
Renault: 2/10 - Haha.
Moulder: 5.5/10 - Nice 'stache. Early healer, Slayer is mean.
Colm: 8/10 - Thief who is also badass in a fight. Supports motherfucking Neimi.
Artur: 6.5/10 - A lesser Lucius, but Slayer is, again, mean.
Natasha: 5/10 - Later Moulder.
L'Arachel: 7/10 - A bit of a project, but she's also a healer, and also also in FE8. Solid once caught up.
Rennac: 4/10 - Not horrible, and if you want to make Colm better at killing things, he can take over stealing duties.
Rhys(9): 5.5/10 - Mist catches up fast, and stays better. Usable enough though.
Volke(9): 7.5/10 - Vastly superior thief, and a decent combat unit; Stiletto is cool.
Sothe(9): 1/10 - You have Volke.
Laura: 5/10 - Oh hey I can totally rate her too.
Sothe(10): 7/10 - Saves the DB, never horrible.
Heather: 3/10 - Few thiefable chapters that lack Sothe.
Rhys(10): 2.5/10 - Overshadowed all over the fucking place.
Oliver: 3/10 - Gets points for his battle theme. Usable if you need a dedicated healer, and he isn't Renault-level.
Volke(10): 6/10 - The crit bonus is great, and he gets better weapons, but he loses the 'is your thief for the whole game' thing he had going for him. Late too.
-
Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8
Nina: 9
Sr-1:
Sr-2:
Sr-3:
Bo: 3
Karn: 7
Gobi: 1
Ox: 2
Deis: 7.5
Mogu: 1
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen:
Chad:
Clarine:
Saul:
Astol:
Cath:
Cecilia:
Yodel:
Serra: 6
Matthew: 5
Lucius: 8
Priscilla: 8
Legault: 3
Jaffar: 2
Renault: 2
Moulder: 5
Colm: 8
Artur: 7
Natasha: 5
L'Arachel: 8.5
Rennac: 3
Rhys(9): 5
Volke(9): 7
Sothe(9): 2
Laura: 5
Sothe(10): 6
Heather: 4
Rhys(10): 5
Oliver: 2
Volke(10): 4.5
-
Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8/10.
Nina: 7/10.
Sr-1: Abstain.
Sr-2: Abstain.
Sr-3: DNR.
Bo: 5/10
Karn: 8/10.
Gobi: 5/10.
Ox: 5/10.
Deis: 8/10.
Mogu: 2/10.
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 5/10.
Chad: 5/10. I see no strong reason to really raise him, but he is your first thief, plus there are maps where heaving both him and Astol on the field is nice.
Clarine: 6/10. Looks good on paper but... for some reason first healer tends to just get that slot in FE games, for me.
Saul: 4/10.
Astol: 6/10.
Cath: 1/10. Die~
Cecilia: 1/10. Bigger liability than Sophia, at least when I was playing. This is terrible.
Yodel: 4/10.
Serra: 6/10.
Matthew: 5/10. See comments for Lagault.
Lucius: 5/10. It's weird, I always feel like he's doing really good, then shortly before promotion he dies on me.
Priscilla: 5/10.
Legault: 5/10. Well... Matthew has Lyn mode, and while it doesn't reward thieves much what it does do is give him half a chance to be around Lagualt's level when he joins. So neither feels strongly better than the other. Beyond THAT... thieves are okay but don't feel super necessary in FE7? I dunno what it is, just didn't feel like I was missing thieves at any point in the game, whereas I definitely was glad to have them in FE6.
Jaffar: 4/10. Servicable if you need someone but not much more.
Renault: 3/10. Well. Spare healer's worth something I guess.
Moulder: 4/10.
Colm: 8/10. Death machine. Thanks to Neimi support, not largely hindered even by Assassin caps.
Artur: 5/10.
Natasha: 5/10.
L'Arachel: 4/10. FE8's not the best game for healers. They don't feel necessary in the long term. Probably says what you need to know about the game.
Rennac: 4/10.
Rhys(9): 5/10. As noted earlier, on average first healer wins. On the other hand... the speed.
Volke(9): 3/10. I didn't even use thieves in this game.
Sothe(9): 2/10.
Laura: 1/10. DB durability is so goddamned low they can use freaking vulnaries. Laura cost me multiple resets in c1 and died to a freaking cat or something in chapter three. I didn't bother resetting then.
Sothe(10): 6/10. Solid enough. He only gets a short time to really shine as a jeigan (ie shares that spotlight with too many people) so it's only a minor boost to his lackluster lategame performance.
Heather: 3/10. Died on her first map, didn't bother to reset. Still, having a non-Sothe thief would have been nice at times so I missed her once or twice later.
Rhys(10): 3/10. FE10 is a more punishing game than FE9, so his loltastic speed/durability combo hurts him a lot more, so Mist's lead on him as a healer is a lot more pronounced. Nevermind the insane jump Elincia got.
Oliver: Abstain.
Volke(10): Abstain.
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Laura: 1/10. DB durability is so goddamned low they can use freaking vulnaries. Laura cost me multiple resets in c1 and died to a freaking cat or something in chapter three. I didn't bother resetting then.
Can't that be said of all healers? Rhys getting 2 points more even though his durability is even worse due to the open maps and stronger enemies seems a bit odd. Healers pretty much always die when attacked but Laura is in a group that needs healing while Rhys is in a group that just doesn't need healing.
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No. a) if a Greil Merc gets hurt, they need a healer, not just an item. b) if Rhys dies, I can just let him stay dead (I think I did, in fact). If Laura dies, I game over because no one can die in the first chapter. Therefore, she's a greater liability. c) Rhys' durability is not worse than Laura's. EVERYTHING kills Laura, even mages, due to her abysmallly low HP. Rhys can luck out and survive cat attacks.
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Maybe my memory is a little off but isn't Rhys facing cats possible on one map which is splitpath at endgame? Laura can survive Cat attacks at that point so its hardly a plus in his favour.
Also mages killing her with that speed and res? Yeah I don't see that happening.
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you mean her sub-Micaiah speed and barely above average res? Yes, clearly invincible.
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Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8.5/10. Boomerang death god. I wish his tanking was more proactive, but aside from that, boomerangs off high speed are great for randoms, and dragons are great for bosses.
Nina: 8/10. Initiative healing is sexy. Wish she had MT healing, though.
Sr-1: 3/10. Bad.
Sr-2: 5/10. Competent but uninspiring. Correct me if I'm mixing them up, but I don't think I am.
Sr-3: DNR, you don't fight anything notable with him.
Bo: 5/10. His lightning magic makes a mockery of the bosses you fight before you get dragons. After that he tails off fairly badly.
Karn: 8/10. Fusions wreck things rather nicely, though he's one-dimensional and if does go down (ID) it sucks.
Gobi: 1.5/10. Half a point because his magic is good against Pincher.
Ox: 4/10. Can sub in for a quick initiative heal if need be.
Deis: 9/10. Crazy HP, speed, and damage.
Mogu: 1/10. Hahahaha.
Elf covers BoF1 quite nicely.
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 2/10. Not good.
Chad: 5/10. Thieves are very very useful in FE6. Decent supports and...well, he can generally avoid dying if attacked at least if he gets levels. Not promoting means 5 is the highest a thief can go, though.
Clarine: 8/10. Evade tank from hell, mobile healer and has FE6 anima magic. Does her job and does it well.
Saul: 4/10. Better then Ellen, but still not good.
Astol: 3/10. There if you lost Chad, but pretty inferior to him all around, iirc.
Cath: 2/10. Yeah. Don't find her a hassle to recruit myself, but Chad and Astol are prolly better thieves anyway, so...
Cecilia: 3/10. More useful then Ellen I think, but really you have Clarine so why bother?
Yodel: 2/10. Staff levels, yeah. Niime is a better choice for that anwyay.
Serra: 4/10. She's not bad, but egads her supports take forever to form.
Matthew: 6/10. Call me biased, but he always seems to come in handy. Just wish that promotion item were earlier.
Lucius: 7/10. Glass cannon. Can be a liability if you aren't good at protecting him, but tends to kill shit dead, so he's worth the effort to protect. Also easy Raven support is <3.
Priscilla: 5/10. Better then Serra overall, I want to say. Mobility and Anima being > Light in general. Also easier to support.
Legault: 4/10. There if you lose Matt or if he turns out bad. Same problem though, really wishes that Fell Contract came earlier.
Jaffar: 4/10. Decent combat unit if you need one that late, I suppose.
Renault: 2/10. Eeeeeh, yeah, not very good. IIRC he can take a hit by healer standards at least, but that's about all he's got going for him.
Moulder: 4/10. Early healer, not horrible overall but he's hardly good either.
Colm: 8/10. Yeah, Colm's a good combat thief. Neimi support is awesome as well.
Artur: 6/10. He's not bad, but always makes me miss Lucius a bit. Slayer helps though.
Natasha: 6/10. Great healer, not hard to build up IMO.
L'Arachel: 5/10. Better then Natasha I think, but loses a couple points for the late join.
Rennac: 3/10. Nothing special, but he's usable at the very least.
Rhys(9): 4/10. I've used him and didn't regret it, but Mist is simply better, yes.
Volke(9): 7/10. Not a bad fighter at all for a thief. Knives suck in 9 but he still does the job.
Sothe(9): 2/10. Non-promoting thieves are not fun.
Laura: 5/10. Sure the DB can use Vulernaries and get(usually) full healing from it...or Laura could heal someone so they can use thier turn to attack instead. Or better yet heal them after they attack so they aren't sitting there with the counter damage still on them as a headstart for the enemy's turn. I could see dropping her for another fighter once you aren't using everyone you have, but...nah. She's good enough.
Sothe(10): 7/10. Damn nessesary in the DB stages. I would not even consider some kind of FE10 challenge that involved not using Sothe. Servicable at endgame, if nothing special.
Heather: 5/10. Eh, I used her in basically every stage she was available and she was just fine if not standout. Average works.
Rhys(10): Abstain. Didn't use him at all.
Oliver: Abstain. Didn't recruit him.
Volke(10): Abstain. Didn't use him at all.
-
I had her get one-rounded by mages on 1-E. Conversely, letting her be killed by cats is just silly because there are like 25 chokepoints~
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you mean her sub-Micaiah speed and barely above average res? Yes, clearly invincible.
Her growth in speed is 70% which is 5% off gamebest. You're comparing Rhys surviving a cat attack, something which is only possible endgame as proof so her growths come into this. At endgame Cats can't kill her and unlike Rhys she doesn't have to "luck out".
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There's a huge slew of game before the ending stages kick in. If you start with unsalvageably shitty stats and are a complete liability that struggles to grow without risking resets right and left, I can't say the growths will be a great help while the character doesn't reach the point where those stats don't suck. Also, isn't Laura's speed cap trashy, ramming the growths with a lead horn in the ass anyway?
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Her growth in speed is 70%
Too bad about the 5 base which is uncontested game-worst, so Cmdr is entirely correct. And the slow rate of level-gaining counteracts the growth some. Laura isn't catching up to Micaiah in speed until she promotes. And it's bad when you're playing catch-up with Micaiah in the speed department.
-
Rhys will also probably slam into his Magic, Res, and Luck caps so fast that he'll have no problem using Bonus Exp to max speed and potentially even defense by the endgame.
-
Why not invest that in a offensively useful character though? I never use BEXP on healers -- they already do their healing thing without it, and combat units improve in ways that actually matter.
-
Her growth in speed is 70%
Too bad about the 5 base which is uncontested game-worst, so Cmdr is entirely correct. And the slow rate of level-gaining counteracts the growth some. Laura isn't catching up to Micaiah in speed until she promotes. And it's bad when you're playing catch-up with Micaiah in the speed department.
Getting her to Lv 15 or so isn't unreasonable before 1-E and I always promote her myself. During all this time she is useful while Rhys during his time isn't. Laura pretty much always fills an empty slot and her healing helps a bunch, Rhys meanwhile is in a team that dosn't need healing and is filling a slot that could be used for someone that can actually kill something.
Rhys will also probably slam into his Magic, Res, and Luck caps so fast that he'll have no problem using Bonus Exp to max speed and potentially even defense by the endgame.
And Laura can't do this why? Her growths are better then Rhys with three or four of them being 70%. Though considering its easy to level up healers anyway and they shouldn't ever be getting attacked I question why you'd waste bonus xp on them.
Also, isn't Laura's speed cap trashy, ramming the growths with a lead horn in the ass anyway?
31 while Rhys is 30. Not steller but she'll cap it early at least.
-
Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8/10. What Elf said.
Nina: 8/10. What Elf said. Also my E-Key spammer for the first half of the game.
Sr-#: DNR. I played BoF1 three times and don't remember Sr-3's existence at all so yeah don't trust myself on the others gameplay abilities either.
Bo: 4/10. What Elf said, but the drop is pretty dramatic. From "rather useful" to "Karn soul food at best."
Karn: 8/10. Well you can't completely abuse fusions because he needs to be untransformed to do his detect-traps thing but whatever.
Gobi: 1/10. Karn soul food, that's it, which I'm not really inclined to give him credit for.
Ox: 4/10. Better than late-game Bo I guess if Karn is untransformed.
Deis: 9/10. Only flaw is that with BoF1's high encounter rate you can't exactly spam her best stuff despite excellent resources.
Mogu: 2/10. Actually not worthless! If Puka is in play you only have 5 characters to use, so if nothing else Mogu can sub in for dead characters, or help conserve Deis's MP.
Serra: 5/10?
Matthew: 4/10?
Lucius: --- Didn't use.
Priscilla: 6/10? Mobile is good on a healer.
Legault: 6/10. I found it hard to level up Matthew safely but Legault is more RNG-proof and pretty decent at fighting.
Jaffar: 6/10. Pretty decent fighter.
Renault: 5/10. Renault is just fine, healers level up way too slow in FE7 so the giant level advantage he had on Serr for me definitely gives him something. Matters less if you farmed heal-XP I guess.
Moulder: 4/10. Not terrible.
Colm: 7/10. Great. Only problem is that he can get STR-screwed with bad luck but this is not news for FE.
Artur: 5/10. Seemed okay but nothing special.
Natasha: 5/10. Also okay but the fact that Sages got Staves too meant that she kind of paled next to Lute. Also preferred L'Arachel for mobility.
L'Arachel: 6/10. Annoying to build her up but hey, in FE8 (unlike FE7) I felt no shame about going to a random battle map and spamming heal for a bit.
Rennac: 4/10. Maybe your Colm got RNG-screwed. He's serviceable, and you can ignore him and drop him into the L'Arachel's castle mission with no levels and be fine to have double-thiefy action as far as raiding the treasure.
Rhys(9): 4/10. Far too frail in my games.
Volke(9): 6/10. Sure you need a thief and Volke can kill wimps if not armored guys.
Sothe(9): 2/10. Very much a "break glass in case of Volke emergency" character and that's it.
-
Hmm, you're basically giving Mogu a point because he can't be used in fusions (otherwise presumably Gobi would merit the same score). That makes little sense to me; I totally understand not giving credit for being part of fusions (I don't either) but I think penalising someone for being part of them makes even less sense.
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Ryu: 7.5/10. Pretty good.
Nina: 8.5/10. Yesz.
Sr-1:---
Sr-2:---
Sr-3:---
Bo: 5/10. Passable.
Karn: 8/10. Puka~
Gobi: 1.5/10. Fusion 0.5 points.
Ox: 4.5/10. Decent healer to sub in. Slow as molasses though.
Deis: 7.5/10. Solid PC.
Mogu: 1/10. lulz
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Serra: 3/10
Matthew: 6/10
Lucius: 7.5/10- Glass cannon ftw.
Priscilla: 7/10
Legault: 7/10- Tanktastic.
Jaffar: 3/10
Renault: 1.5/10. +0.5 for the Fortify staff.
Moulder: 2/10. Uggggggh his luck.
Colm: 8/10. Wins.
Artur: 5.5/10. Worse Lucius.
Natasha: 6/10. Solid enough.
L'Arachel: 5/10. Joins late but has really high stats for her level. A lot of the time I just promote her early. +Move is nice.
Rennac: 3/10.
Rhys(9): 3/10. lulz
Volke(9): 6/10. Not terrible.
Sothe(9): 2/10. lulz. Utility.
Laura: 4/10. A begrudgingly necessary if not great unit. Please don't get doubled by mages and killed ;_;
Sothe(10): 7/10. Jeigan. Pretty awesome.
Heather: 3.5/10. Siiiigh.
Rhys(10): 2/10.
Oliver: 3/10. Filler B rank staff user.
Volke(10): 5/10. Pretty good but not around much.
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Hmm, you're basically giving Mogu a point because he can't be used in fusions (otherwise presumably Gobi would merit the same score). That makes little sense to me; I totally understand not giving credit for being part of fusions (I don't either) but I think penalising someone for being part of them makes even less sense.
I'll admit it's unintuitive, but... think of it this way. Karn is untransformed. If you stick Gobi in front and he dies, Karn can't transform anymore. If you stick Mogu in front then whatever.
Not to mention that in some ways Mogu > Gobi anyway (he's faster at least, does comparable damage IIRC) so I'm not too sorry about giving him a 1 point advantage. Won't debate that they're both scrubs.
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Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 2/10. Random really sums it up. 20% speed growth? 5% def growth? 0 base DEF? Fuck you
Chad: 6/10. The better combat thief of the two viable thieves. Chad hits harder if you need to put him on offense, and that Lugh support is pretty sexy.
Clarine: 9/10. Durable wall, healer, and can deal damage (but not as good) once she's promoted. Pretty much everything you want sans a little more offense. Feeling generous today. So 9 it is~
Saul: 5/10. Mmm...the better Cleric of the two units. Saul actually y'know, grows decently well over time. Don't recall his supports...which probably means they are either bad, or that they require you to use bad units.
Astol: 6.5/10. The better defensive thief of the two viable thieves IIRC. Supports with...less awesome units, but still pretty good. I imagine, him and Chad play out around the same in practice though.
Cath: 0/10. She might as well NOT exist. The fact that she actively HAMPERS you when she first appears is enough to drop her to a 0.
Cecilia: 2.5/10. Uh...pretty bad. The bases are just crappy, but AT worst, she can sub in as a last minute mounted healer. Anima magic is good, so you may be able let her take pot shots or something otherwise.
Yodel: 2.5/10. End game filler. GODLIKE RES. Shitty pretty much everything else
Serra: 5/10. -1AS whenever she's attacking isn't a good start. Thankfully, Serra's raison d'etre is not for straight up combat. Makes a good second healer, but is almost always going to be worse than Pris. Lyn mode gives her a bonus point, for all that you can probably make it without a healer. The god awful support speed just kills her from being better than a 5.
Matthew: 6/10. Eh...Matt's really iffy. He's got good speed and luck growth. The luck base is too low though, which does hurt if the RNG decides to be unkind. He does have the highest speed for a while, which means that his doubles will help offset some things, but that strength is just kinda bad and his other defensive stats aren't anything to write home on. This hurts later on. BUT! He does have Lyn mode and availability, which means he IS your only thief for a bit. Above average works.
Lucius: 7/10. Glass cannon. But a good one.
Priscilla: 7.5/10. Your best healer sans Pent. Mounted, supports with three pretty awesome units (Raven/Lucius/Oswin) and her growths are pretty solid.
Legault: 5.5/10. A better version of Matthew at the expense of appearing less (Around 20 maps if we factor in Lyn mode and Hector mode). Stronger defensive stats, which is what you want more in a thief, especially later on when they get cap rammed.
Jaffar: 3/10. Uh...well he saves you 50k if you want an Assassin? Not bad otherwise, but that strength cap is freaking balls and he's not that great straight up
Renault: 1.5/10. Literal fill in healer for the last stretch. That Fortify staff is a waste on him though.
Moulder: 3/10. Exists for like a map or two? He has HIGHER CON!!! and not much else over Natasha sans supports. And...well...both of those supports may not be that great since Colm is often ahead of the map doing thief duties and Vanessa flies. But still, they're there.
Colm: 8/10. He's practically a SM but in a thief class. Needless to say, this is pretty badass.
Artur: 5/10. A worse version of Lucius basically. Trades off some offense for more durability.
Natasha: 6/10. The stronger healer for most of the game. Supports could use some work - but not terrible.
L'Arachel: 4/10. PROJECT HEALER! The good news for L'Arachel is that she grows well and her bases are very good for her level. Meaning you can quick promote her and not suffer huge penalties. Being able to support the lords is icing on the cake.
Rennac: 2/10. Because I have to rank him numerically and not just put Vice President/10. He's a free Rogue, so if you want to turn Colm into an ASSASSIN so he can get more EXPs, you have that option. His Luck is failure though.
Rhys(9): 4/10. Worse than Mist in pretty much everyway. That speed defense mix is just...no. But he's your only healer for a while. And he has some support use (I think?)
Volke(9): 6/10. I don't recall using him terribly a lot after promotion for combat duties, so that pretty much says it all right there. As a thief though, he has his moments. Getting him levelled up is just a pain though since knives have shit for Might. AND you can't forge them
Sothe(9): 1/10. Yeah...so, throw in low levelled at joining period + bad weapons and that's Sothe. You can use him, but Volke's higher levelled and thus better most of the time. And using Sothe9 is just a pain since when he first joins, his ability to a) kill things and b) survive things are not exactly stellar.
Laura: 4/10. Yeah. She's the only healer on the DB and thus you need her around more or less in part 1 unless you want to rely on Sacrifice. She's otherwise pretty bad. The bases are just not good (and 5 starting speed? Argh). Dying to everything in one hit and then some? Also not good.
Sothe(10): 8/10. A reliable Jeigan for both part 1 and part 3 maps. Part 3 maps really are just Sothe showing off his shiny Beast killer. Also some stealingz, but that's not where he's getting a lot of his points for. He's usable in the early part 4 maps and becomes sub par come endgame. 28 Strength off Knives = blargh no.
Heather: 3.5/10. The only one who can perform thiefly duties for the CRK and GMs. I don't recall how much you can steal unfortunately. Defenses are quite horrible.
Rhys(10): 2/10. Oh wait, my mistake. Here's someone with even WORSE defense than Heather, because Heather at least has speed. Rhys? 14 base speed at level 4 in tier 2 = no no no no no WHY. That durability combo is just WINNER. His main advantage over Mist when they both start out is his OFFENSE. That...says pretty much everything.
Oliver: 1/10. You basically never have any reason to add him to the team. The only time he can join is Endgame, and costs you a deployment slot out of 10. From what the game gives you during endgame, you have enough filler units to slot in (Nailah/Naesala, Tibarn, Giffca, Cain, Volke, Stefan, Renning, Elincia, Bastian) assuming you've never given anyone else a single drop of EXP. Secondary healer? Elincia takes care of that, AND she's miles better on offense and she can't die before endgame. I was tempted to give him lower until NEB reminded me that the Nosferatu and Silence he comes with > the 70 Boss EXP you get from killing him. But damn, if he isn't close to getting a 0.5 as well.
Volke(10): 6/10. Very solid. He gets dropped a .5 though because Sothe HAS to be used at endgame. Which means bringing him along leaves one person needing to use a forge instead of the Baselard, further nuking the team's overall offensive contribution a round. He's otherwise pretty much a Trueblade but in a different class with a different mastery (but at least his guarantees a kill upon triggering!)
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Karn: 8/10. Well you can't completely abuse fusions because he needs to be untransformed to do his detect-traps thing but whatever.
Karn can still detect traps while fused.
Also, the nature of Fusions work such that...I can't really buy that as a downside. if you're using a Fusion, you'll use it; the fact that Gobi is completely worthless outside of 2 fights (Morteo and Pincher) means that he should never be in the front. Also, Karn's fusions have initiative; if you were planning on using it, you'd have done so and succeeded, mid battle. Its a superficial downside at best.
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Breath of fire:
Ryu: 9/10. Dominates the entire game.
Nina: 7/10. Quaility healer late, but she lacks offense.
Sr-1: DNR
Sr-2: DNR
Sr-3: DNR
Bo: 6/10. Very good early, bad late.
Karn: 8/10
Gobi: 1/10
Ox: 5/10
Deis: 7/10. Joins too late, but is very good.
Mogu: 1/10
FE thieves:
Serra: 6/10. Fairly good healer, but her defense is garbage. Luckily FE7 doesn't punish you for this the way 9-10 do. Offense could be better as well, as any decent tomb weighs her down horribly. This works.
Matthew: 6/10. Tons of availability+good supports.
Lucius: 7/10. Starts with a ton of speed and magic, which makes up for the defense issues. Also has good supports.
Priscilla: Abstain.
Legault: 3/10. More strength than Matt, but the supports are worse. Gets squeezed out of the game by Matt being better and Jaffar not being a prepromo.
Jaffar: 4/10. Usuable filler.
Renault: 2.5/10. Usuable filler if you really need an A stave user late.
Rhys (9)- 3/10. Has to be protected and doesn't really have much offense. He still has some use as a stave user.
Volke- 5/10. Useless as a combat unit thanks to knives, but stealing is useful.
Sothe- 1.5/10. A second thief is sometimes useful. Maybe?
Laura- 4/10. Laura's frail enough that she has to have an Angelic robe+promotion to functionally survive an enemy turn in part 1. She is a total project who gets great later on thanks to fantastic speed/magic growth, but... seriously. Like 18 HP and 5 speed and 0 defense start in the hardest part of the game=fuck no. Staves are awesome enough in FE10 that it is worth the hassle, but augh.
Why not invest that in a offensively useful character though? I never use BEXP on healers -- they already do their healing thing without it, and combat units improve in ways that actually matter.
Mist and Laura were both worth dumping BEXP so they could get promotions. Mist in particular needs that horse to not be completely awful.
Sothe(10): 8/10. He's useful up until the end of part 3, then falls off the face off the earth. That Beast Killer gives him much needed offense in 3-6, and that auto A with Miciah is always useful.
Heather: 3/10- Filler.
Rhys(10): 4/10- Found him better than his FE9 form. Staves kick ass in FE10 and he can get supports up to speed fast, which he needs for defense.
Oliver: Didn't get.
Volke(10): Didn't get. Probably would get a low score, as you have a lot of competition for endgame and Sothe's already forced.
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the fact that Gobi is completely worthless outside of 2 fights (Morteo and Pincher) means that he should never be in the front.
And that is infinitely more fights that Gobi is useful over the number of fights Mogu is useful.
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L'Arachel: 4/10. PROJECT HEALER! The good news for L'Arachel is that she grows well and her bases are very good for her level. Meaning you can quick promote her and not suffer huge penalties. Being able to support the lords is icing on the cake.
Considering that you could likely get away with promoting Lute super early if you really want a mounted healer and not suffer too much for it, it's *really* hard for me to care about L'Archy's OMG super special awesome growths, considering she joins in the hardest part in the game and good bases aren't saving her from being 2HKO'd by any enemy worth a damn half the time. But you know, if people think she's worth the effort, fine, I'm not going to argue, I just needed to get this off my chest.
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Why not invest that in a offensively useful character though? I never use BEXP on healers -- they already do their healing thing without it, and combat units improve in ways that actually matter.
Mist and Laura were both worth dumping BEXP so they could get promotions. Mist in particular needs that horse to not be completely awful.
I think this is a case of different playstyles. If I feel that the healer can not be hit by things, I heal first and then advance the line. I just don't see why I care if the healer has shitty stats.
I also disagree with Random completely, but I have someone sitting five inches from me typing a response to him, so I will just be lazy and wait for that~
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Considering that you could likely get away with promoting Lute super early if you really want a mounted healer and not suffer too much for it, it's *really* hard for me to care about L'Archy's OMG super special awesome growths, considering she joins in the hardest part in the game and good bases aren't saving her from being 2HKO'd by any enemy worth a damn half the time. But you know, if people think she's worth the effort, fine, I'm not going to argue, I just needed to get this off my chest.
Well, nobody is arguing that L'Arachel is as good as Lute, and anyway I want Lute to be a kill machine, not a healer. Fast-promoting Natasha for your mounted healer is a better argument, I think, but even then I'm pretty sure she's going to lose out on stats in a fairly big way long-term? Would need to look things up granted. Regardless, L'Arachel is certainly competetive with such a build. Yes, she may be 2HKOed by most enemies (which I'll take over earlygame Moulder's ability to randomly be OHKOed but ymmv), but y'know, as discussion currently in chat is alluding to, many more recent FE healers are 2HKOed or even OHKOed. Healers shouldn't really be attacked too much anyway so their durability isn't as bad as it would be on a combat unit. On the other hand Move is pretty much the most important stat a healer can have (besides staff level, depending on what you have available) and L'Arachel provides it. I don't think she's great because she does have problems but she's at least okay.
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Again, if people think she's worth the effort, I'm not going to argue. I, however, do not see the sense in bothering at all, all things considered. Underlevelled unit + slow to get to even an early promotion due to crap Exp gains = go away and let me use a unit that fits my biases better to me, that's all.
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Just to make things clear, I DO think L'Arachel has problems. You'll see that she's not exactly breaking a 5 from what I ranked her. I'm not trying to mock you Random with the ALL CAPS because I agree that she IS a project healer. On the other hand, I find that she has some merit to be used because typically I want Lute to kill things, not sit back and play a healer role. Natasha can also probably so something similar with the quick promoting, but you'll see that I ranked her higher than L'Arachel. I'll admit that there probably is some bias (I never found her too difficult to raise up) but she does have problems which I acknowledge.
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Honestly, L'Arachel at base level isn't even especially different than the other two healers. Looking at the numbers I compiled to make the FE8 equal exp topic (which does fit with my own memories of playing the game nicely, note that it -does- assume no tower/skirmishes but whatever), at the time L'Arachel joins, Moulder should be Level 9-10 and Natasha should be Level 6-7. Rounding those up and comparing!
Level 10 Moulder: Need 17 atk to 2HKO, 7 magic, 12 speed, 2 luck, 7 res, 5 move
Level 7 Natasha: Need 14 atk to 2HKO, 6 magic, 10 speed, 10 luck, 9 res, 5 move
Level 3 L'Arachel: Need 14 atk to 2HKO, 6 magic, 10 speed, 12 luck, 8 res, 6 move
She's basically dead even with Natasha outside +1 move, and while it takes 3 less attack to 2HKO her than Moulder, she doesn't need to worry about crits due to lulz 2 luck so I'm more willing to expose her to single hits. Honestly aside from staff level I'm starting to think I've underrated her, though I dunno how I feel about the fact that she lacks the Bishop option and would need to digest just how much that lower staff level matters.
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Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8.5/10. Yeah, Boomerang Death God for 90% of the game, has Dragons for 70% of it!
Nina: 8/10. Her only flaw is iffy on damage, but honestly, BoF1 item casting is so hax, this isn't that much of a flaw.
Sr-1: 4/10. Clearly the inferior of the two, but he's still a warmbody who does actual damage.
Sr-2: 5/10. Sr-1 but better in like everyway!
Sr-3: DNR. Joins for like 3 rooms, and there's a very good chance you won't even get into a single random encounter during this section.
Bo: 4/10. Adequate Physical damage for randoms when he joins and your best Boss Slayer until Ryu gets dragons, manages to stay good for a little while longer, but then becomes incredibly obsolete for the entire 2nd half of the game.
Karn: 7.5/10. Awesome speed and a really strong weapon (IcyDr) are available for him immediately, so his pre-fusion Moments aren't as bad as you'd think. Then he gets fusions, and kicks ass; you never have a reason to not use Shin or Puka (I'd say Doof, but having Doof means you have access to Puka, whose better in everyway.)
Gobi: 1.5/10. He does a good job against PincherX, and if gotten enough levels somehow, he's good against Morteo as well! Two fights, whoo? He'd be good in the Underwater Volcano, but being required for Shin makes you not bother using him.
Ox: 3.5/10. He makes a good 4th PC right after he joins since why not, and has some extra healing worth. Also an option to use over Nina or something against Random Encounters until you get Puka. So basically, its a similar case to Bo, only he's not as good during this section.
Deis: 8.5/10. Yeah, overpowered; cannon with massive speed and good HP due to the absurd level up speed, and even has good defense too cause BoF1 is weird in giving THE TWO FEMALE MAGES better equips than everyone sans Ryu.
Mogu: 0.5/10. There's literally one moment you might use him, and its during that short stint where Nina is absent, and frankly, its possible using downgrading to Shin for fusions and using Ox may be better than Mogu. I'd give him points for the Initiative 100% Run...except Deis has 100% Run too *AND* her speed is so high, it might as well be initiative, AND she has a lot more AP to do it with, so even for a niche use like that, he's worthless. Oh yeah, did you know he's statistically inferior to Gobi outside of speed?
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 2/10. Healer when you have none! ...for like 5 minutes. Really bad after that point.
Chad: 5/10. He pulls his weight before promotions start mattering, and still has thief utilities after. Yeah, average works.
Clarine: 6/10. Iffy offense, but moblie healer and awesome evade make for a half decent unit.
Saul: 4/10. Ellen except has actual stats in areas like Speed. Think he also joins at a level higher than what she's likely to be at that point to boot. Still has no offense before promotion, and can't take hits to save his life, and after promotion, his offense is still kind of bad if he's not hurling Aureola...which takes time t learn.
Astol: 5/10. Chad whose probably got the level edge, but worse supports and joins later...yeah, screw it, same rating. Its also viable to use both characters cause there are big maps with lots of treasures, where using 2 thieves can come in handy.
Cath: 0.5/10. Three thieves, however, no. The half point is quite literally if you need an emergency thief should Astol *AND* Chad both die. Otherwise, she joins waay underleveled, never amounts to ANYTHING useful, and her thief utility purposes are taken up by *2* far superior PCs. To make matters worse, killing her and thus making recruiting her impossible can make your life EASIER, due to how she functions. That's really fucking sad.
Cecilia: 3/10. Uses Anima Magic, and is mounted, so she's not completely awful. She's still a good example of how FE6 Prepromos suck though.
Yodel: 4/10. Works if you want a healer for the last few maps who requires 0 training, but that's all he can do. Coming with the best staff in the game and having full usage of it is pretty nice too.
Serra: 3/10. Only healer for Lyn mode, and first healer in Eliwood/Hector Mode, but she's a pretty uninspiring long term unit.
Matthew: 6/10. Basically Chad/Astol, only can actually do combat late game due to potential promotion.
Lucius: 6/10. Why I never respected Erk. Lucius does all the same stuff Erk does at the same time, but better, and come the final chapter, he's another person wielding a big awesome Legendary Weapon (Aureola.) His high res makes the whole "Loses to anima mages" a complete joke of a WTA to boot.
Priscilla: 5/10. High move healer, and gets Anima magic upon promotion which is somewhat better than Light magic.
Legault: 5.5/10. Overall better stats than Matthew, but joins later, and I don't think their differences were big enough to matter, so yeah, lower rating. I think Matthew may have had better supports too.
Jaffar: 4/10. Workable filler unit if you need one, but not much else.
Renault: 2/10. He's Yodel, except people like Pent exist who can do the Use Staves Awesomely thing just as effectively in addition to OTHER things like offense, let alone Athos joins very shortly after.
Moulder: 4/10. The usual early game healer who isn't very good, except Bishop Class is pretty rocking in this game, so its worth an extra point.
Colm: 7/10. FE Thieving at its finest; covers his bases well, has a quick good support with another solid unit, and the utilities come in handy. The fact that he doesn't lose those utilities upon promotion doesn't hurt either.
Artur: 5/10. Felt like Lucius-, and has to compete with Lute like instantly, so the Erk issue kicks in. FLIPSIDE, he can still become Bishop which makes him awesome in the final stretch of the game.
Natasha: 6/10. Why Moulder isn't that useful; Natasha has most of the same advantages, and has stats in other significant areas.
L'Arachel: 4/10. She's good, and can be promoted early and still have good stats, but eh, still felt like she wasn't quite worth it.
Rennac: 3.5/10. Good second thief if you need one, not much else.
Rhys(9): 2.5/10. "First Healer in the game" thing, only this time Bishop is NOT around, and his liability is even greater, due to dying anytime a Myrmidon looks at him funny.
Volke(9): 6/10. He's functionally your only thief. On paper, he should be higher, but oh god do knives suck. He's still a good evasion tank however.
Sothe(9): 2/10. Works as a second thief for the desert and...if Volke dies...but really, never anytime else. Joins underleveled, late and can't promote. Its like Cath all over again...except he's a free recruit, won't steal your objects, and there's only one other guy he's competing with, not two.
Laura: 4/10. She's Rhys all over again, compounded issues...but being your ONLY HEALER during Part 1 makes her rather crucial, and she really helps out a lot in Part 3 as well, allowing flexibility with Micaiah. Not particularly useful come part 4 though.
Sothe(10): 7/10. Good unit in Part 1 (which really needs him) and Part 3, starts to trail off in Part 4. Thief uses don't hurt either.
Heather: 4/10. Sothe but with far less combat worth, not only due to being worse (especially in strength) but cause she's in teams that need her a lot less.
Rhys(10): 4/10. Dunno, but he felt better here.
Oliver: 2/10. Worthless unless you really need a Tier 3 Healer in Endgame besides Micaiah :(
Volke(10): 4/10. He'd be higher, but docking him a point for sharing a weapon with another forced PC who does NOT have a unique weapon, making the use of him require you nerf one of the two in terms of their blessed weapon. Additionally, he just joins way too freaking late to really merit being much higher. He's good for what he is, but there's just too much against him to really get much higher.
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Colm: 8/10.
Is that all you have to say Elf? I don't know if we can be friends anymore.
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Breath of Fire:
Ryu: 8.33
Nina: 7.84
Sr-1: N/A
Sr-2: N/A
Sr-3: N/A
Bo: 4.56
Karn: 7.94
Gobi: 2.00
Ox: 4.00
Deis: 8.28
Mogu: 1.50
Fire Emblem Staves, Light Magic, and Thieves:
Ellen: 2.71
Chad: 5.25
Clarine: 7.51
Saul: 4.38
Astol: 4.19
Cath: 2.00
Cecilia: 2.18
Yodel: 2.86
Serra: 5.22
Matthew: 5.71
Lucius: 6.91
Priscilla: 6.57
Legault: 4.98
Jaffar: 4.21
Renault: 2.58
Moulder: 4.29
Colm: 7.69
Artur: 5.96
Natasha: 5.70
L'Arachel: 5.57
Rennac: 3.46
Rhys(9): 4.83
Volke(9): 6.29
Sothe(9): 2.08
Laura: 4.89
Sothe(10): 7.21
Heather: 3.96
Rhys(10): 3.06
Oliver: 2.71
Volke(10): 5.11
Best Rating of this Session: Ryu w/ 8.33
Worst Rating of this Session: Mogu w/ 1.50
Sr-1 and Sr-2 got DNR'd due to lack of required votes, Sr-3 got DNR'd for usual "people don't want to rate him" reasons.
As a reminder, if someone has less than 5 votes, they are not having a rating; you need to have a minimum of 5 votes to be accepted.
With that said, WE HAVE FINISHED FE!!!!
Congrats to Haar of FE10 for having the highest rating of that 5 game absurdly high number cast. And everyone, please mock Karla of FE7 for having the single LOWEST rating of the crew! I refuse to do it game by game; if someone else wants pick out who has the highest and lowest of each game, by all means!
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
3. Haar (FE10) 9.17
4. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
5. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
6. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
7. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
8. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
9. Tana (FE8) 8.73
10t. Claude Kenni (SO2) 8.63
10t. Nailah (FE10) 8.63
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
3. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
4. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
5. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
6. Garret (FE6) 1.36
7. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
8. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
9. Klein (FE6) 1.64
10t. Merlinus (FE6) 1.75
10t. Fiona (FE6) 1.75
Now that we're done with FE, we'll be doing ONE game this session, but its a reasonably large cast, so I figure it'll work:
Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie:
Arngrim:
Lawfer:
Jelanda:
Freya:
Belenus:
Llewellyn:
Janus:
Nanami:
Yumei:
Jun:
Kashell:
Aelia:
Lorenta:
Mystina:
Lucian:
Jayle:
Badrach:
Shiho:
Suo:
Grey:
Lyseria:
Gandar:
Lezard Valeth:
Brahms:
NOTE: Unlike Lunar, VP:L is effectively the same game for these intents and purposes as the original VP. As a result, voting on the PSP version here is completely legit. Yes, there are subtle changes, but its more like SoA vs. SoAL; the net difference is too small to really care.
NOTE 2: Spaces are only made for the sake of making this easier to read; I figure having breaks would make things easier than just a HUGE LIST OF NAMES and what not.
As usual, note mistakes and what not. Note that this time, I'm not being anal about the order of which characters join (especially since the game is slightly randomized in this regard), I did it based on loose memory. I more care about having everyone up there. If I missed someone, please just note it, and feel free to make a "Write-in" if you want (I'll add them to the list when I notice it <_<)
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: Clear MVP yadda yadda. 9/10
Arngrim: Serviceable enough. 5/10
Lawfer: Spear user. Enough said. 7/10
Jelanda: Early VP1 mage. 7/10
Freya: DNR. Aftergame character outside of the brief prolouge stint.
Belenus: There but exists at a point where you need to fill up a slot. 4/10
Llewellyn: lulz. 2/10
Janus: Better than Llewellyn at least. 3/10
Nanami: Potentially early VP1 mage. 6/10
Yumei: Potentially early VP1 mage. 6/10
Jun: There. 3/10
Kashell: There. 3/10
Aelia: Inferior spear user but still pretty decent. 6/10
Lorenta: Midgame VP1 mage. 5/10
Mystina: Midgame VP1 mage. 5/10
Lucian: Shining Bolt is cheese, yeah. A Route tempishness hurts though, and it's his only real trick, for all that it is delicious cheese which needs partaking of. 7.5/10
Jayle: There and late. 2/10
Badrach: lulz. 1.5/10
Shiho: Lategame VP1 mage. Eh, sure. Early Might Reinforce is worth a bit extra. 4.5/10
Suo: There and late. 2/10
Grey: There and late. 2/10
Lyseria: Lategame VP1 mage who only joins on hard mode. 3/10
Gandar: Lategame VP1 mage. 4/10
Lezard Valeth: DNR, aftergame.
Brahms: DNR, aftergame.
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Lenneth Valkyrie: 9/10. Bows are absolutely godly on her: rack up tons of gems, tons of hits, tons of energy, are good at knocking down, breaking defense -and- the mults are utterly nuts. She makes even storebought bow trash look good. Getting the option to use swords, which get the best weapons in the game, is an okay bonus, but she's so much worse with swords that it only matters in the aftergame. Of course, Lenneth also gets the good anti-elemental gear if you thought she needed durability to back up the offense.
Jelanda: 7/10. Earlygame VP1 mage. That's never bad. Never godly, but they're generally fine.
Arngrim: 7/10. Softened up to him a bit. He works -a lot- better with those 1-swing swords broadswords tend to be so fond of and, of course, the mults are a thing of legends. The durability and offensive equipment options also leave nothing to be desired, but I still wish he was a better combo person.
Freya: DNR. Nononononononono.
Lawfer: 8/10. Crimson Edge is impressively retarded for the maingame and Lawfer's normals are both easily comboable and rather solid, racking up gigantic energy. The PWS could give better energy, but racks hits well and is strong.
Belenus: 5/10. I like Belenus's PWS - good mult, making it a good finisher, which is probably the best out of the swordsmen that aren't called Lenneth. Normals are fairly average, though, and he's middling besides getting swords, which have good options, and a solid finishing PWS. Average works.
Llewellyn: 1/10. lulz i are awsum against big trgaest wat du yu men my nrmolas scuk and my spw cmopotelely fails bseidse bgi poepel
Janus: 4/10. I honestly irrationally like Janus, but using him either means you're having to share bows with Lenneth or you're just sacrificing offense. Best PWS and normals out of non-Lenneth bowmen, but how much does that say?
Nanami: 7/10. Early VP mage. Cookie points for the "lol mages break the first three chapters in the game" Dragonbane, but not enough for a real rating boost.
Yumei: 7/10. Early VP mage.
Jun: 3/10. Katanas suck and so do Jun's normals. His PWS racks up a lot of hits, but has issues both building energy -and- dealing damage. Not good.
Kashell: 4/10. Trades Arngrim's amazing PWS mults for better normals, and that's such a losing trade. His normals aren't even amazing, so the durability niceness is all he gets. Not good.
Aelia: 6/10. Solid, but she clearly loses out on the normals and special against Lawfer - less energy, less comboability and even less damage, methinks. So yeah.
Lorenta: 7/10. VP mage in the midgame with some neat spells.
Mystina: 7/10. Is Lorenta without Heal, but that's not much of a deal at all. Being Jessie gives her cookie points.
Lucian: 7.5/10. I have to dock a point out of him for being effectively a temp if you go A ending. Best normal in the game for just about -everything-+glitch, though? Fucking hellsyeah.
Jayle: 3/10. Holy shit subpar at everything great combo.
Badrach: 2/10. Uh I guess gem farming is a niche? Pretty egregious otherwise.
Shiho: 7/10. Lategame VP mage... but she gets the awesome that is offensive VP buffing one chapter before everyone else, and it's not like raising VP mages is a problem in-game.
Suo: 2/10. Wow, you manage to be worse than Jun.
Grey: 4/10. Pretty underwhelming. Effectively a swordsman with broadswords, and the normals are good, but not good enough to mitigate the awful PWS and underwhelming for a swordsman durability.
Lyseria: 3/10. VP1 mage can only go so bad. But Lyseria is pretty pointless.
Gandar: 3/10. See Lyseria.
Lezard Valeth: DNR. Aftergame PC.
Brahms: DNR. Aftergame PC.
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 9 - Clear MVP for the maingame and most of the SG.
Arngrim: 7.5 - Permanent PC that you get from the beginning of the game nets him some extra love, but this is mostly for the PWS mults and tanking.
Lawfer: 7.5 - VP1 Lancer
Jelanda: 7 - Great earlygame when you're short on bodies and can easily work well into endgame, though better options are available. Not really great in the SG.
Freya: 6 - Doesn't exist in the maingame, which I'm holding against her, but she's one of the best options for SG.
Belenus: 5 - Early warm body who works well.
Llewellyn: 2 - Early warm body and that's it.
Janus: 3.5 - Decently useful as far as Non-Lenneth archers go in VP1. Still a bad choice for SG.
Nanami: 5.5 - Pretty interchangable with the other mages, and missable. Good replacement for Jelanda if you sacrificed her.
Yumei: 5.5 Ditto
Jun: 3 - Archer-level.
Kashell: 5.5 - Overshadowed by Arngrim and not a guaranteed recruit. Can be useful in the SG though, so half a point.
Aelia: 6 - Similar to Kashell, but better PWS.
Lorenta: 5 - Yep.
Mystina: 7 - Being permanent and snagging you a nice GM wand puts her at Jelanda-level for VP magery. Good starting option for SG.
Lucian: 8.5 - Breakin' the game, Breakin' the SG... points off for not being available in A-path.
Jayle: 5 - Forgettable and replacable, but a nice addition if you sent up all your other swordsmen, I suppose. Not a strong SG candidate.
Badrach: 3.5 - Gem-farming is thirsty work. And vital for the SG grind~
Shiho: 6.5 - Only requires one scroll to become the best support unit in the game + damage mage. Late joiner though.
Suo: 2.5 - Late and useless.
Grey: 5.5 - Late, but... Freeze hype.
Lyseria: 4 - Redundant.
Gandar: 4.5 - Slightly less redundant.
Lezard Valeth: 5 - Good for the SG for a while! But there's better and I hold not being available in the main game against him.
Brahms: 6.5 - Yay SG! So late though...
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 9/10 - MVP.
Arngrim: 7/10 - Is alright but I've personally never liked Heavy warriors.
Lawfer: 9/10 - Owns Main game completely. Screwed over in the after game though.
Jelanda: 8/10 - Fills in a spot and if you don't care for the rest she can last you the whole game. Comes with the least amount of spells but who just uses mages initial spells anyway?
Freya: 9/10 - Help not really needed at the start. Beyond that she is a great fighter in the SG but her moves have issues. Several times her attacks have gone off while a PWS is happening for me.
Belenus: 6/10 - Not all that bad, nice finisher.
Llewellyn: 4/10 - Layer Storm is actually pretty good, great infact. Doesn't kickass against all enemies but when it works its nice.
Janus: 3/10 - Some people like him but I personally am not too fond.
Nanami: 6/10 - Mage, gives a broken weapon.
Yumei: 6/10 - Mage
Jun: 4/10 Senko...Jin! I have a friend who watched me fight a few battles using Jun and he kept laughing as while Juns finisher is extreamly flashy is does next to no damage. I now find myself saying "Senko" as I use a move and "Jin" when the enemy dies in several games and get a big laugh out of it. Oh how is he? Bad stats, bad weapons, screwed in the SG, bad finisher, hell everything is bad when it comes to him. I still use him on all my playthroughs :P
Kashell: 5/10 - He is serviceable.
Aelia: 6/10 - If you're crazy enough to send up Lawfer she is the only one who can fill in. Crappy finisher.
Lorenta: 6/10 - Mage.
Mystina: 6/10 - Mage.
Lucian: 9/10 - Temp character but broken as hell. Great in the SG and I wish I could replace Lenneth with him.
Jayle: 5/10 - Average.
Badrach: 2/10 - He do one thing right so point for that.
Shiho: 6/10 - Mage.
Suo: 4/10 - Die and be silent abomination or something. Perfectly useable, cool and has good quotes.
Grey: 5/10 - Icicle Disaster! Awesome voice. Breaks up the boredom.
Lyseria: 6/10 - Mage.
Gandar: 7/10 - Mage with good quotes.
Lezard Valeth: 10/10 - Edges Gandar out in the voice department and is helped by the fact that his gameworse Hp matters for nothing in VP.
Brahms: 10/10 - Nice moves and stats. Awesome finisher.
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Grey: 5.5 - Late, but... Freeze hype.
You're hyping him for a status he doesn't have?
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Lenneth Valkyrie: 9/10. Yeeeeeeep. Even if Valk could be removed from the team, Bows on her are way too good. Generates energy, gems, and juggles to boot. You also need Valk around unless you want a constant 3 turn limit, which while you could probably make do without, is still nice. Oh, and she had great defensive equipment choices to boot for resistances. The only thing that kinda holds Valk back to me is that her damage could use some work. Not that's its terrible though.
Jelanda: 7/10. Early mage, and I think your only mage to start with for a little while, which helps gain her a bonus point or so.
Arngrim: 7/10. Pretty solid. Final Blast's recharge time is bad, but you have Valk in the party anyway, so its not as menancing as it seems at first. In addition, he's got Heavy Swordsman HP and unlike Snow, I've never had too many problems connecting his attacks sans on some monsterce s.
Freya: DNR. She's either a prolouge temp (lulz) or aftergame PC. Which uh...yeah.
Lawfer: 8.5/10. Yeeeeah. Justice Stream is badass as hell. Then he also gets Crimson Spear halfway through the game and Dinosaur late. That along with the fact that I think certain set ups let him PWS by himself and he has low recharge on his PWS makes him wtf. Also, his attacks come out better than Aeila's.
Belenus: 6/10. He's actually pretty good. Extreme Void is a good PWS and his attacks combo pretty much the same way as Sword Valk. His problems are that he's more or less overshadowed almost always by Lawfer and being stuck with Swords as weapons.
Llewellyn: 2/10. I'm not as harsh as Snow (I think AIMING WISP is ITE?) and his PWS IS useful depending on the enemy), but egads. He fails pretty badly sans that. And needing to adjust your party for a niche benefit like that when you could just slap Lawfer into the party is blargh, no.
Janus: 5/10. Better than Llew and your best archer sans Valk. Janus main selling point to me is his Flare Shot. While the accuracy on it is not impressive, on combos, it's great since it adds a whopping 50 Energy in one hit. POIZN needle also has humourous purposes and Guilty break is decent enough (think it was also one of the few that provided 70+ Energy). His damage otherwise is kinda poor though.
Nanami: 7/10. Dragonbane pretty much lololols in the early chapters, which is pretty win.
Yumei: 6/10. Somewhat early VP mage. You'll probably switch it up and their not hard to catch up, which is good. Just...I'm not sure if I would make the switch if it wasn't for VP's system since I don't recall her doing any better than her other early compatriots.
Jun: 2/10. The only reason you use Jun is because of the hits his PWS adds. And if you really like that, you already have Valk on the team, whose PWS does like 11/13 hits. His normals are horrible and getting him to combo with is a pain in the ass as well.
Kashell: 3/10. What Snow said. Kashell trades PWS mult for better normals...but its a bad trade on his part and he has nothing else going for him.
Aelia: 5.5/10. Outclassed by Lawfer in pretty much everyway. Docking an extra half point because her normals have ass for comboability here for me.
Lorenta: 7/10. Pretty sure she joined with Mystic Cross learned, which is very nice since she joins right around Lezard's tower.
Mystina: 7/10. What Snow said.
Lucian: 8/10. SHINING BOLT!!! There is nothing else you need to know about Lucian. Being a temp sucks, but Shining Bolt is broken as fuck that he can probably get away with an 8 here and not have me objecting to it.
Jayle: 3/10. Pretty terrible. Well I guess she can revel in the fact that her attacks combo decently. Past that, no.
Badrach: 1/10. Sucks. If you want to gem farm you have a) Lucian, b) Lenneth with Bows. Why you would use Badrach is beyond me.
Shiho: 5/10. I think I softened up a bit and yeah, having Might reinforce a chapter before everyone else is pretty awesome. But based on my playthroughs, I seriously don't remember it having that much of an impact, and yeah. See Yumei otherwise.
Suo: 1/10. lolololololol
Grey: 3/10. Think he also had an ITE normal which was nice for certain things, past that, he's a swordsman more or less with broadswords and a crappy ass PWS. That's not saving him.
Lyseria: 2/10. Hard mode only, which while yeah, why would you play any other mode, is still pretty bleh. Past that, late game mage without the Might reinforce thing so she ends up being pretty useless.
Gandar: 2/10. Yep.
Lezard Valeth: DNR. Aftergame PC. Burping Snow/Random
Brahms: DNR. Aftergame PC. Burping Snow/Random
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 9/10. Yeah, been said. Good damage, energy building, PWS, etc. Even has Slanting Rain if you want SHODDY MT DAMAGE! ...oh come on, its an advantage she has that Non-Archers don't, if a shitty one! She can also use Swords, not that you ever should barring Loki, BUT SHE CAN.
Arngrim: 7/10. HIgh HP, good PWS, pretty much an ideal candidate for this big massive One Hit Swords.
Lawfer: 8/10. HIts really damned hard; his only flaw is that his PWS is basically a pure finisher.
Jelanda: 7/10. Mage, gotten early, which is nice cause it means no playing Catch Up, etc.
Freya: DNR (7/10). Really Good in the SG, but I don't weight aftergames too much.
Belenus: 6/10. Great PWS, but utterly average otherwise; the PWS only really matters late too cause 1H Swords aren't special until Gram.
Llewellyn: 3/10. Aiming Wisp ignores Evade, which is a nice gimmick, and he's gotten early. Ignoring Evade is a pretty cool feature, frankly, and being undersold, and unlike stuff like Wait Reaction or Magic, there's 0 penalties to using it (Wait Reaction can miss some targets, Magic can't be used every turn.)
Janus: 5/10. Looks good on paper, but Bows sucking kind of hold him back from being the "Damage Archer", especially since Lenneth has claim to all the awesome ones beforehand. Janus REALLY wishes there was a strong 1 Hit Bow with the #3 Attack somewhere before Berserker Bow. To his credit, he's good at building energy and setting up combos.
Nanami: 7/10. Joins early enough to be an alternative to Jelanda with different spells, so same score. Dragon's Bane I don't give credit too, since all Mages can make use of that.
Yumei: 7/10. See Nanami, really.
Jun: 4/10. Racking up hits is cool, but that's about all he has; his moves can be a pain to time as well.
Kashell: 5/10. Arngrim with a shit PWS.
Aelia: 6/10. Lawfer-. She's good if you accidentally sent Lawfer up, since Crimson Edge is pretty sweet, and she's still got a strong PWS (which can be used #2 unlike Lawfer's), but...yeah, clearly no reason to use her otherwise.
Lorenta: 6/10. Mage, but being gotten significantly later than the first 3, with the "Join at level 1" thing Hard Mode has, this is where I start docking points (hence why I consider "Joins Early" a pretty significant factor in this game.)
Mystina: 6/10. See Lorenta, really.
Lucian: 6/10. Really good when you have him, but you have only like 2 chapters before he needs to be sent up? Well, I guess he's fine in B Ending, but that A Ending Tempness holds him back. He should be a lot higher cause of his battle effectiveness, but lack of availability, and joining latish hurts him.
Jayle: 1/10. Oh look, its Lucian with NO REDEEMING QUALITIES WHATSOEVER.
Badrach: 2/10. Gets gems, which is a pretty cool niche. Its about all he has going for him too.
Shiho: 6/10. Joins even later than Mystina and Lorenta *HOWEVER* has Might Reinforce one chapter earlier than anyone else, which gives her a unique use as a Mage, if temporary, so I'll give her the same score.
Suo: 1/10. Jayle that uses Katanas, whoo?
Grey: 2/10. Ignoring Evade is cool, but he joins late, underleveled, and competes with Arngrim for Greatswords, and his PWS is simply ass even with Great Sword boosts.
Lyseria: 5/10. Shiho without the unique gimmick.
Gandar: 4/10. Yeah, no point in using him considering how late he's gotten and you have so many other mages. HOWEVER, a VP Mage is still a VP Mage, so I can't realistically give him lower.
Lezard Valeth: DNR (5/10). SG only thing is an auto "DNR" for me. As far as SG Merits? Interesting PC in the SG cause he DOESN'T Join at level 1, so being late doesn't hurt as much, so he's a good mage out of the gate. However, he's got a lot of competition, and other mages with finely
Brahms: DNR (6/10.) He's like Jun++, having even more hits and genuinely good damage and a Non-Fail weapon to make use of all this.
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth)
Lenneth Valkyrie: 8/10. Doesn't quite hit gamebreaking levels, but still obviously awesome and should always be used, for reasons well covered here.
Arngrim: 6/10. Good at what he does.
Lawfer: 8/10. Even if spears weren't awesome you'd use Lawfer. Triple blow is silly.
Jelanda: 7/10. Mages! You need one, lots of competition, but hey, first mage is good.
Freya: Abstain.
Belenus: 5/10. If we suppose that Lenneth/Lawfer/Mage is a given, that makes the fourth spot highly competitive and... Belenus is usable but doesn't stand out there.
Llewellyn: 2/10.
Janus: 4/10. He's not bad, works out if you do use him, just no compelling reason to do so either.
Nanami: 7/10.
Yumei: 6/10.
Jun: 4/10. Has his uses, but I'm not really going to get worried about technical awesomeness of Jun's sort, I'd rather have someone there who killed enemies on his own, not the technical best guy for starting boss killing PWS chains.
Kashell: 3/10.
Aelia: 6/10. Spears win! Aelia's comboing is arghle. And I'm not even guessing here, I tried reordering her attacks several ways and never found one that consistently let her get all hits in (though I think 3-1-2 got enough in). Also competes with Lawfer for the best lances of course.
Lorenta: 5/10.
Mystina: 6/10. Probably the best non-initial mage in terms of usability, good spell selection compensates for needing to level. Or I remember thinking that.
Lucian: 8/10. If Lucian wasn't a temp, there'd be no reason to ever use a party besides Lenneth/Lawfer/Lucian/Mage aside from "but I wanna try out the suckier characters!"
Jayle: 3/10.
Badrach: 2/10.
Shiho: 6/10.
Suo: 2/10.
Grey: 3/10. Hm. Could be underrating him, actually, don't think I've ever actually used him!
Lyseria: 4/10.
Gandar: 4/10. As Meeple says, there's a basement to Mage scoring. Gandar's actually technically the best statistically, and he has every spell you care about except like Sap Guard, but given raising a level 1 character it's still simpler to use every other non-Lyseria mage.
Lezard Valeth: Abstain
Brahms: Abstain
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 9/10. Pretty much the archetypical 9 to me, you never really want to be without her because she's so good (7x multiplier normals, 60-energy high-mult PWS, guard crush and gem farm) but lacks the extra needed oomph for a 10.
Arngrim: 7/10. Solid. Greatswords are far above other weapons much of the time so he's often one of the strongest, and he's durable.
Lawfer: 8.5/10. Great mults, strongest PWS in the maingame, good HP, and gets some awesome weapons. Nothing really special earlygame, which costs him the half point compared to Lenneth.
Jelanda: 7.5/10. Mages are solid, Jelanda is arguably the best since she joins earliest
Freya: DNR. If she ends up being ranked, 8.5/10; great SG PC but combos a little awkwardly.
Belenus: 5.5/10. Quitely above average, but rarely by enough to really force his way above the good PCs.
Llewellyn: 2/10. Gets above a 1 because his normals ignore evade and Layer Storm's actually decent against hueg targets, but that's it. His energy and damage are both awful.
Janus: 4/10. He's okay. Sadly Lenneth eats the best bows and steals his niche.
Nanami: 6.5/10. Early enough to be good.
Yumei: 6.5/10. More or less the same as Nanami, I think joins on average slightly later but on the other hand does have a free Frigid Damsel and Icicle Edge.
Jun: 4/10. Uh... he adds a lot of hits.
Kashell: 4/10. Uh... he has the second best durability.
Aelia: 7/10. Solid. Not as good as Lawfer, normals are just too much worse, but yeah, that's not much of a real knock.
Lorenta: 6/10. Free Invoke Feather.
Mystina: 5.5/10. Getting a little worse as time goes on...
Lucian: 8/10. Shining Bolt is sick. However, I think his Soul Crush is too weak to compete with Lawfer or Lenneth.
Jayle: 2.5/10. Way to overall mediocre.
Badrach: 2/10. GEM FARMING saves him from a 1!
Shiho: 7/10. Early Might Reinforce is sexy, she's actually worth picking up a new mage for.
Suo: 2/10. Jayle minus.
Grey: 3/10. Ignores evade and greatswords are nasty weapons. Too bad about the Soul Crush.
Lyseria: 3/10. Meh, no point to a mage this late.
Gandar: 3/10. See above. I mock the stat difference, it barely matters; the big stat difference is level and Gandar is Level 1 in Chapter 8.
Lezard Valeth: DNR. 3.5/10 if ranked.
Brahms: DNR. 6/10 if ranked.
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Gandar: 3/10. See above. I mock the stat difference, it barely matters; the big stat difference is level and Gandar is Level 1 in Chapter 8.
Some would argue thats a good thing. You can max his HP/SP a lot faster then all the other mages.
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I've been lazy lately with this topic, but partially cause YOU GUYS AREN'T CO-OPERATING GIVING ME ENOUGH VOTES AND-...
...oh, right, I'm suppose to be pleasant, happy, etc.
On a LESS whiny note, just proving that I have *NOT* forgotten this topic, its going to be updated tomorrow, so if you haven't rated yet but want too, feel free. This session has been open more than it should have been or something.
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 10/10
Arngrim: 7/10
Lawfer: 7.5/10
Jelanda: 3/10
Freya: DNR
Belenus: 4/10
Llewellyn: 2.5/10
Janus: 4/10
Nanami: 2/10
Yumei: 2/10
Jun: 2/10
Kashell: 6/10
Aelia: 7/10
Lorenta: 2/10
Mystina: 4/10
Lucian: 8/10
Jayle: 4/10
Badrach: 3/10
Shiho: 3/10
Suo: 5/10
Grey: 3/10
Lyseria: 2/10
Gandar: 2/10
Lezard Valeth: DNR
Brahms: DNR
This cast is unbalanced.
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Gandar: 3/10. See above. I mock the stat difference, it barely matters; the big stat difference is level and Gandar is Level 1 in Chapter 8.
Some would argue thats a good thing. You can max his HP/SP a lot faster then all the other mages.
You get two Bracelets of Zoe by Chapter 3. If you wanted to, you could just not use Jelanda until then and presto, she gets just as much HP as Gandar would. You don't do this because it's even better to start using her early, ergo she is better than Gandar.
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Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 10/10 - Is she there from the start? Yes. Does she ever leave? No. Is she always one of your strongest PCs? Yes. Is there any reason you should not use her? No. That is 10 material. It is like Rena but for damage instead
Arngrim: 8/10 There is no reason not to be using Arngrim.
Lawfer: 7/10 There is also no reason not to be using Lawfer, but he isn't around as long/isn't there on easy (lol?) has a bit more finnicky obscure to get weapons.
Jelanda: 7/10 You can and should be using a mage. Unlike others have been saying though, stat difference what? I don't care about the difference in stats between different mage characters OR the stat difference between them being level 1 or level 50. You know where the biggest stat you have comes from in VP? Gear. The damage difference between 1800 Magic and 2100 after multipliers is so little I don't give a shit. Your Great Magic ruins everyones shit just as easy at level 1 as it does at level 40. Unlike most warriors as well Mages don't even have a great deal of variance for Send bait. So whatever, they are all good and you should use ONE of them at all times and they are completely and totally interchangeable usually with some minor positive or negative that even early Might Reinforce isn't going to shift one over another point wise for me.
Freya: DNR
Belenus: 6/10 - Wishes there was more good swords when he was gotten, as is he is prime Transfer bait and THAT my friends gets him 2 points. He is totally worth using and then you send him off and he is one more stepping stone on your path to getting a free Gram.
Llewellyn: 4/10 - 2 points for sending again, 3 points for usability, -1 point for having to be used if you are to send him. He is not that much of a liability or anything though.
Janus: 4/10 - Llewelyn but better! But less niche send bait! Really really wishes Sword Lenneth was better.
Nanami: 7/10 - Mage!
Yumei: 7/10 - Mage!
Jun: 5/10 - Llewelyn with lots of hits! Token first chain user? Makes the choice easy if nothing else!
Kashell: 2/10 - Horribly outclassed, should never be used.
Aelia: 5/10 - Horribly outclassed, should never be used, but isn't shit!
Lorenta: 7/10 - Mage!
Mystina: 6/10 - Alright, a Mage that you can't send is technically worth less, but I have used her! Mostly for the Jesse thing.
Lucian: 8/10 - I am having trouble justifying exactly why he is worth an 8. If you are going for B ending you should really probably be using him in your party and well he unlocks the A Ending which directly leads to Glance Reviver for the final boss and while doing so he is a pretty good send for one of the chapters you can send him from memory (could be off? I vaguely remember sending multiple people one time with him).
Jayle: 2/10 - Terrible! But I thoroughly enjoyed using her bounce bounce bounce, something different to look at during a VP play. Horribly outclassed by others though. Not much use for sending either.
Badrach: 2/10 - I don't even care enough to say gem farming. That is what Lucian is for.
Shiho: 7/10 - Mage!
Suo: 1/10 - Sub Kashell! Sendable I guess if you don't want to send someone else you should have sitting around, have done so though
Grey: 1/10 - Sub Kashell! As above
Lyseria: 7/10 - Trying to remember if I have ever actually used her, I think I did once but might have swapped her for Gandar for Captain K purposes.
Gandar: 6/10 - Same as Mystina.
Lezard Valeth: DNR
Brahms: DNR
This cast is from an easy as game anyway where the things that break the game are equipment and universal skills. The only things characters bring to the table is damage multipliers and comboable moves with Multipliers meaning far far more.
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Lenneth Valkyrie: 8.7/10 - is overall good. Bows and swords are all good. Not transferrable, but works for a permanent party member. Death once she dies is kind of sad (though perfectly sensible)
Arngrim: 7.4/10 - can't be transferred, though works for a permanent party member...but should be replaced by others, really
Lawfer: 8.4/10 - weapons are a little obscure, honestly - still good enough with ones you can purchase, but it does hurt a bit.
Jelanda: 8.1/10 - mages are awesome
Freya: 9.1/10 - completely broken when you have her in the first dungeon, and still very good in the Seraphic Gate
Belenus: 7.1/10 - awesome to transfer, and isn't a horrible party member
Llewellyn: 6.6/10 - best archer to transfer, mostly because he sucks for battle, so he saves better archers from going
Janus: 8.3/10 - best archer, lots of energy, who I used as an archer in place of Lenneth
Nanami: 7.9/10 - mages are awesome, slightly worse VA, lightning bolt sucks
Yumei: 8.3/10 - mages are awesome, cool VA, the ice spells are pretty cool
Jun: 7.4/10 - great transfer, weapon power is weak, but works otherwise
Kashell: 7.5/10 - transfers ok, decent enough for combat otherwise
Aelia: 7.8/10 - not as good as Lawfer, but still is great, except for the combo problems...and is a good transfer
Lorenta: 7.7/10 - mages are awesome
Mystina: 8.4/10 - mages are awesome, and she brings along the Infinity Rod
Lucian: 7.0/10 - on the one hand, great in battle and a transfer...but effective use is short, and the purify weird soul sucks
Jayle: 7.5/10 - awesome to watch in battle, and is a great transfer, even if not hugely special in combat
Badrach: 7.0/10 - has a use over Llewelyn for gem farming which is awesome, and is still decent transfer
Shiho: 7.5/10 - mages are awesome, hate her not having offensive magic to start
Suo: 7.8/10 - awesome transfer...remember he able to go immediately, which is nice when the late pick-ups start coming...also no horrible as a fighter
Grey: 7.1/10 - is...good transfer and ok at combat
Lyseria: 7.0/10 - mages are awesome, though Lyseria really comes too damn late
Gandar: 8.5/10 - mages are awesome, has the best stats, and voice of normal game, and really isn't transferable, so works as a final party mage pretty easily and fittingly
Lezard Valeth: 7.8/10 - is awesome in the main game battle he joins in, and serviceable otherwise, as the spell list is nice
Brahms: 7.5/10 - feels a bit worse than Freya overall, but is kind of like a greatswordsman
Cast is overall interchangeable, and anyone can work for anyone in any place. Transferability is worth a lot to me in the sense that it means you don't have to sacrifice other good characters you have. As such, everyone's pretty close to me.
-
Valkyrie Profile (Lenneth):
Lenneth Valkyrie: 9.02
Arngrim: 6.86
Lawfer: 7.95
Jelanda: 6.87
Freya: N/A
Belenus: 5.45
Llewelyn: 2.85
Janus: 4.34
Nanami: 6.25
Yumei: 6.12
Jun: 3.76
Kashell: 4.36
Aelia: 6.21
Lorenta: 5.79
Mystina: 6.17
Lucian: 7.77
Jayle: 3.45
Badrach: 2.55
Shiho: 5.95
Suo: 2.75
Grey: 3.51
Lyseria: 4.18
Gandar: 4.36
Lezard Valeth: N/A
Brahms: N/A
Best Rating of this session: Lenneth Valkyrie w/ 9.02
Worst Rating of this session: Badrach w/ 2.55
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
3. Haar (FE10) 9.17
4. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
5. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
6. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
7. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
8. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
9. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
10. Tana (FE8) 8.73
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
3. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
4. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
5. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
6. Garret (FE6) 1.36
7. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
8. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
9. Klein (FE6) 1.64
10t. Merlinus (FE6) 1.75
10t. Fiona (FE6) 1.75
Ok, I think I should note this cause it seems that SOME OF YOU are just taking this as a joke and just doing shit for giggles, not putting thought into it, and putting random favoritism and such by assigning arbitrary values. This is easy to pick up on, mind; its ok to have a different opinion, but there are certain tells that make it obvious when you're not taking this seriously and just going "ho-hum, put shit wherever." I'm not putting names, but I don't wanna see shit like that; it defeats the purpose of this topic, and its easy to pick up on so thinking you're being "Clever" by showing favoritism but in a way that masks it...yeah.
I'm not gonna say names, but you know who you are; please take this topic at least somewhat seriously. Doing shit like that skews values and it almost makes me feel like you're trying to insure their score isn't THAT bad, or just don't care. If you don't care about rating, don't rate; putting arbitrary values skews with results, and just looks bad.
Anyway, that note aside, BACK TO STUFF THAT MATTERS!
Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga:
Alice Elliot:
Zhuzhen Liu:
Margarete Gertrude Zelle:
Keith Valentine:
Halley Brancket:
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong:
Elly Van Houten:
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau:
Bart Fatima:
Rico Banderas:
Billy Lee Black:
Maria Balthasar:
Chu-Chu:
Emeralda Kasim:
NOTE: If its not obvious, XG characters are to be taken ON FOOT ALONE. The Gears are not a factor in this at all. I have decided that Gears and PCs are really quite separate entities (if still linked) and they will be ranked separately. As a result, we're rating Fei specifically now, not Fei + Weltall; Weltall will be rated in a different session entirely (as will all other Gears.)
...and yes, Big Chu-Chu counts as a Gear.
-
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: Solid enough though nothing all that special. 7/10
Elly Van Houten: Odd. Slow and attack Ethers are pretty crappy but weirdly tankish for a time despite the HP. 4/10
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: Doc is hax. 9/10
Bart Fatima: Eh. 5/10
Rico Banderas: Just seems so very pointless. 3/10
Billy Lee Black: Haste is nice. 7/10
Maria Balthasar: lulz. 1/10
Chu-Chu: lulz. 1/10
Emeralda Kasim: Mmmm, faster Elly I guess? Not really sure, but I guess 6/10 works?
-
Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.5/10. Yuri just doesn't justify a 10 to me, but he's absolutely retarded: starts out as your best PC, being your only buffer, your main offense and having the best random-busting stats in the earlygame - oh and he's a good healer too. Then, midgame kicks in and he turns into the only person with MT OHKO damage to randoms -alongside having all the things he had beforehand-. Running off game-best speed -anyway-. Then Sandalphon kicks in and he's your best healer until Alice gets her good healing spells. Then he gets Amon and then Seraphic Radiance and... yeah, just absolutely insane. Yuri could very well solo the game, and, in practice, SH1 is pretty much Yuri+Alice challenge run. You just don't even notice the challenge.
Alice Elliot: 6.5/10. She's the only other PC who truly matters. The fact she can dedicate herself to healing, healing and healing while Yuri kills the universe basically trivializes everything -ever-. She does take her sweet time learning the good healing stuff, though, so she obviously can't be all that good - the fact Sandalphon Yuri is obviously a stronger healer than she is for a fair amount of time tells us something here. Still, she's the only non-Yuri PC that matters.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10. Non-Yuri/Alice PCs exist solely to be warm bodies and item caddies. Zhuzhen is the worst of them, having game-worst speed and durability. BUTBUTBUT SKILLSET yeah no skillset sucks.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item girl purposes. Skillset fails beyond belief, but who cares.
Keith Valentine: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item boy purposes, but less speed than Margarete. Skillset has theoretical uses, but fails in practice and who cares.
Halley Brancket: 4.5/10. Fastest item boy, but frailer than both Margie and Keith. Best skillset of the four, which actually kinda means something because Halley's ST healing is better than Alice's for a short while, but besides that who cares.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6/10. I'm not sure if I'm overrating him - his skillset doesn't really impress and his offense isn't standout either, but he has rather solid stats across the board - good speed and solid durability, and since his damage isn't a liability either, he works fine. Solid, but not impressive is enough for a 6 to me.
Elly Van Houten: 5/10. For a while, she gets quite solid offense due to strong weaponry, but has a few statistical problems. Still, the weaponry actually stands out for quite a while. Feels obviously worse than Fei, but worthwhile enough.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5/10. Second-best healer (best healer for a good chunk of the game). Gets a great support skillset. If that wasn't enough, his offense is -fine- and he's very durable and fast. Then he gets an offense boost in the lategame and you're "why the heck". Yeah, just ridiculous, meshes both statistical dominance with strong skillset and that's such a winning combo.
Bart Fatima: 4/10. Wild Smile is neat against some bosses and he's not a real liability. Just doesn't stand out either, and he suffers on offense due to worse weaponry than Elly, for instance.
Rico Banderas: 3/10. Eeeeeeeeeew 8 XG speed and crappy DBs.
Billy Lee Black: 8/10. I could be argued into voting him lower, but holy sheeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit the skillset is so hax. He -starts- with MT full healing, status healing and XG Haste? Holy fucking hell. And he isn't even a stat liability (better stats than Elly, for instance). Not to mention his offense isn't awful either, and turns downright solid in the endgame. Just... mang, he's an awesome healer.
Maria Balthasar: 1/10. Eeeeeeeeeeeew 7 XG speed. Let's not mention the terrible durability and crappy skillset either. No Deathblows? -Really-? And she's stuck with XG -magic- to deal damage worth registering? Christ no.
Chu-Chu: 0/10. Serves -absolutely no purpose whatsoever- to the game in practice unless you find drug grinding to be a purpose. Game-worst stats, a skillset where only healing has any purpose whatsoever and that's the second-worst healing you could get, coming off from the worst stat pool possible. Yeah no, fuck off.
Emeralda Kasim: 6.5/10. One-dimensional, but good at what she does. Good stats and solid offense.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 10/10- Is Yuri.
Alice Elliot: 7/10- Excellent healer, gets some damage late as well.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10
Keith Valentine: 5/10- Has some options+DBJ if you're really good at the ring.
Halley Brancket: 4/10
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6/10- He's fast and has solid damage, but that is it
Elly Van Houten: 3/10. Lunar Rod gets her a point. Otherwise, is slow and frail with no skillset.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5/10. The sword is just overkill.
Bart Fatima: 4/10- At least has speed and colonges?
Rico Banderas: 2.5/10- Slow and not that damaging.
Billy Lee Black: 6.5/10- Wishes Goddess Eyes wasn't glitched. Pretty solid overall, though.
Maria Balthasar: 0/10- Has no use on foot.
Chu-Chu: 1/10- Some twink use in theory?
Emeralda Kasim: 6/10- Has some offense really late+speed.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 10/10. Dominates the game without even trying.
Alice Elliot: 5/10. Healing's good enough.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10. Meh.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 3/10. Meh.
Keith Valentine: 5/10. High sanity and a few quirks get him points.
Halley Brancket: 3/10. Meh.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.5/10. Yuri just doesn't justify a 10 to me, but he's absolutely retarded: starts out as your best PC, being your only buffer, your main offense and having the best random-busting stats in the earlygame - oh and he's a good healer too. Then, midgame kicks in and he turns into the only person with MT OHKO damage to randoms -alongside having all the things he had beforehand-. Running off game-best speed -anyway-. Then Sandalphon kicks in and he's your best healer until Alice gets her good healing spells. Then he gets Amon and then Seraphic Radiance and... yeah, just absolutely insane. Yuri could very well solo the game, and, in practice, SH1 is pretty much Yuri+Alice challenge run. You just don't even notice the challenge.
Alice Elliot: 6.5/10. She's the only other PC who truly matters. The fact she can dedicate herself to healing, healing and healing while Yuri kills the universe basically trivializes everything -ever-. She does take her sweet time learning the good healing stuff, though, so she obviously can't be all that good - the fact Sandalphon Yuri is obviously a stronger healer than she is for a fair amount of time tells us something here. Still, she's the only non-Yuri PC that matters.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10. Non-Yuri/Alice PCs exist solely to be warm bodies and item caddies. Zhuzhen is the worst of them, having game-worst speed and durability. BUTBUTBUT SKILLSET yeah no skillset sucks.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item girl purposes. Skillset fails beyond belief, but who cares.
Keith Valentine: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item boy purposes, but less speed than Margarete. Skillset has theoretical uses, but fails in practice and who cares.
Halley Brancket: 4.5/10. Fastest item boy, but frailer than both Margie and Keith. Best skillset of the four, which actually kinda means something because Halley's ST healing is better than Alice's for a short while, but besides that who cares.
Snow's comments and rankings all pretty much work for me. This cast is unbalanced like a Ko/Nitori DDR playoff.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6.5/10. For all that I often wanted to remove him on Disc 2, Fei has one big thing going for him that isn't stat-related; he often has a large level/DB lead because everyone else refuses to stay in the party. This goes away after the Zeboim arc but even then he at least has decent speed.
Elly Van Houten: 5.5/10. Lunar Rod and decent attack. Pity about the speed. Durability isn't as bad as it looks but isn't impressive either.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5/10. It's Citan. Would give him that extra half point if his healing were MT or he had the sword all game. Game-best speed/game-best durability/good damage and great skillset, you always want him.
Bart Fatima: 4/10. Wild Smile saves him from a worse score.
Rico Banderas: 3/10. Slow and his offence isn't as good as you would think. Skillset blows.
Billy Lee Black: 7.5/10. Balanced and cool. Ether attacks are handy, and the skillset is great.
Maria Balthasar: 1/10. ATTACK MAGE.
Chu-Chu: 1/10. SOMETHING.
Emeralda Kasim: 7.5/10. Fast and powerful and tanky.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.5/10. Yuri just doesn't justify a 10 to me, but he's absolutely retarded: starts out as your best PC, being your only buffer, your main offense and having the best random-busting stats in the earlygame - oh and he's a good healer too. Then, midgame kicks in and he turns into the only person with MT OHKO damage to randoms -alongside having all the things he had beforehand-. Running off game-best speed -anyway-. Then Sandalphon kicks in and he's your best healer until Alice gets her good healing spells. Then he gets Amon and then Seraphic Radiance and... yeah, just absolutely insane. Yuri could very well solo the game, and, in practice, SH1 is pretty much Yuri+Alice challenge run. You just don't even notice the challenge.
Alice Elliot: 6.5/10. She's the only other PC who truly matters. The fact she can dedicate herself to healing, healing and healing while Yuri kills the universe basically trivializes everything -ever-. She does take her sweet time learning the good healing stuff, though, so she obviously can't be all that good - the fact Sandalphon Yuri is obviously a stronger healer than she is for a fair amount of time tells us something here. Still, she's the only non-Yuri PC that matters.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10. Non-Yuri/Alice PCs exist solely to be warm bodies and item caddies. Zhuzhen is the worst of them, having game-worst speed and durability. BUTBUTBUT SKILLSET yeah no skillset sucks.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item girl purposes. Skillset fails beyond belief, but who cares.
Keith Valentine: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item boy purposes, but less speed than Margarete. Skillset has theoretical uses, but fails in practice and who cares.
Halley Brancket: 4.5/10. Fastest item boy, but frailer than both Margie and Keith. Best skillset of the four, which actually kinda means something because Halley's ST healing is better than Alice's for a short while, but besides that who cares.
Works.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.5/10. Yuri just doesn't justify a 10 to me, but he's absolutely retarded: starts out as your best PC, being your only buffer, your main offense and having the best random-busting stats in the earlygame - oh and he's a good healer too. Then, midgame kicks in and he turns into the only person with MT OHKO damage to randoms -alongside having all the things he had beforehand-. Running off game-best speed -anyway-. Then Sandalphon kicks in and he's your best healer until Alice gets her good healing spells. Then he gets Amon and then Seraphic Radiance and... yeah, just absolutely insane. Yuri could very well solo the game, and, in practice, SH1 is pretty much Yuri+Alice challenge run. You just don't even notice the challenge.
Alice Elliot: 6.5/10. She's the only other PC who truly matters. The fact she can dedicate herself to healing, healing and healing while Yuri kills the universe basically trivializes everything -ever-. She does take her sweet time learning the good healing stuff, though, so she obviously can't be all that good - the fact Sandalphon Yuri is obviously a stronger healer than she is for a fair amount of time tells us something here. Still, she's the only non-Yuri PC that matters.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10. Non-Yuri/Alice PCs exist solely to be warm bodies and item caddies. Zhuzhen is the worst of them, having game-worst speed and durability. BUTBUTBUT SKILLSET yeah no skillset sucks.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item girl purposes. Skillset fails beyond belief, but who cares.
Keith Valentine: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item boy purposes, but less speed than Margarete. Skillset has theoretical uses, but fails in practice and who cares.
Halley Brancket: 4.5/10. Fastest item boy, but frailer than both Margie and Keith. Best skillset of the four, which actually kinda means something because Halley's ST healing is better than Alice's for a short while, but besides that who cares.
Snow's comments and rankings all pretty much work for me. This cast is unbalanced like a Ko/Nitori DDR playoff.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6.5/10. For all that I often wanted to remove him on Disc 2, Fei has one big thing going for him that isn't stat-related; he often has a large level/DB lead because everyone else refuses to stay in the party. This goes away after the Zeboim arc but even then he at least has decent speed.
Elly Van Houten: 4.5/10. Lunar Rod and decent attack. Pity about the speed. Durability isn't as bad as it looks but isn't impressive either.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5/10. It's Citan. Would give him that extra half point if his healing were MT or he had the sword all game. Game-best speed/game-best durability/good damage and great skillset, you always want him.
Bart Fatima: 4/10. Wild Smile saves him from a worse score.
Rico Banderas: 3/10. Slow and his offence isn't as good as you would think. Skillset blows.
Billy Lee Black: 7.5/10. Balanced and cool. Ether attacks are handy, and the skillset is great.
Maria Balthasar: 1/10. ATTACK MAGE.
Chu-Chu: 1/10. SOMETHING.
Emeralda Kasim: 7.5/10. Fast and powerful and tanky.
Whee for more quoting. Snow and Elf cover SH1 and XG respectively perfectly.
-
Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 10 - Pssh, easily Yuna-level good in my book.
Alice Elliot: 7 - Contributes quite a bit, and is around the longest.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3 - low-end support
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4 - low-end-but-not-Zhuzhen-level support
Keith Valentine: 5 - ID and sanity make him the best choice of the whatever support
Halley Brancket: 4 - About Margarete level to me.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 7 - Pretty good, I don't mind having him for the whole game. I actually end up getting all of his DBs after all.
Elly Van Houten: 5 - average thanks to an odd balance of suck and broken mechanics.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5 - I can't give Citan a perfect score because XG can't be solo'd by design. There's too many Gear battles. Even not taking the Gears into the equation for how good each PC is, the Gears themselves are like a second set of PC sections where you can't use Citan. So essentially his availability is crap compared to someone like Yuri.
Bart Fatima: 4 - Wild Smile and... he builds DBs quickly!
Rico Banderas: 3 - point for having a section where his strength could conceivably be useful, but the speed...
Billy Lee Black: 8.5 - Healing healing healing, oh and damage and speed are pretty good.
Maria Balthasar: 0 - I don't know if I'm allowed to give zeroes, but useless and -forced- make her less than a 1 to me.
Chu-Chu: 1 - Also terrible, but not forced.
Emeralda Kasim: 7 - Elly++
-
Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9/10.
Alice Elliot: 7/10.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10.
Keith Valentine: 5/10.
Halley Brancket: 5/10.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 7/10. gets the job done. Balanced stats, tends to stay ahead of the DB curve, and is one of the few characters to actually have multiple spells worth using.
Elly Van Houten: 6/10. The game is funny for Elly. Equips for her come in at a pace where she's always got some edge (she's actually a TANK during some parts of the game because of the female-specific equips, and her last weapon comes in just in time for the last major foot dungeon, and puts her damage up towards the top of the curve for its duration.)
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9/10. Nothing much to say.
Bart Fatima: 5/10. Usable enough. Wild Smile is a nice niche, the accuracy tends to keep him from being optimal though.
Rico Banderas: 3/10. The power is there, but the fact he'll miss with his lead in attacks plus the speed... no.
Billy Lee Black: 8/10. If this was a harder game, I might hype him at Citan's level. It's not, so he just crumbles up the pieces Doc already smashed things into.
Maria Balthasar: 3/10. There are ways to make Maria functional. She's somehow the best effective mage.
Chu-Chu: 2/10. There are not ways to make Chu-Chu functional. Even if you set her up for spellcasting, the spells are too expensive, and there's a chance her pitiful growths will sabotage that anyway.
Emeralda Kasim: 6/10. Solid. Her 7 point DBs are harder to raise than everyone else's supposing you were rotating people, and they're what matter by the time you get her, but the stat build is there.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 10/10.
Alice Elliot: 6/10.
Zhuzhen Liu: 2/10.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 3/10.
Keith Valentine: 4/10.
Halley Brancket: 4/10.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 7.5/10
Elly Van Houten: 4/10
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9/10
Bart Fatima: 5/10
Rico Banderas: 2/10
Billy Lee Black: 8/10
Maria Balthasar: 1/10
Chu-Chu: 1/10
Emeralda Kasim: 6.5/10
-
I always felt like the balance in Xengears was even more rushed than the plot, and this is all just from vague recollection, but here goes:
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6/10
He's fairly mediocre, but since he's always in your team I never really noticed so much. He gets the job done.
Elly Van Houten: 4/10.
Really weird skills/stats. I didn't find her to be very useful, but she was better than some of the other weirdos you get in this game.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 10/10
I guess his broken-ness makes sense from a story perspective, but he really is overcentralizing. Then they gave him a sword.
Bart Fatima: 4/10
He's OK, but nothing great. Hate his attack animations.
Rico Banderas: 3/10
Boring extra fighter in a game where the main character is a boring fighter
Billy Lee Black: 8/10
I like Billy. Very versatile, but not as ridiculous as Citan.
Maria Balthasar: 1/10
There's just no reason to use her at all.
Chu-Chu: 1/10
Same here. At least her "gear" has debatable uses.
Emeralda Kasim: 6/10
She's better than a lot of the characters, but that's not saying much I suppose. By the time you get her, foot combat is pretty much a moot point.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9. Yeah, really can't see him at the 10 that gets bandied around. His high point are solid, albeit non-broken stats, about 20% more damage than most of his cast the rest of the game, and some wicked disk 2 healing. Solid for sure, but not a 10.
Alice Elliot: 6.5
Zhuzhen Liu: 3. Slow and non-durable!
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4
Keith Valentine: 5
Halley Brancket: 5
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 5.5 Eh. Hmm, speed is nice, durability is solid. Damage...though. 3rd lowest a good chunk of the game, I think!
Elly Van Houten: 6. This is kind of a gut. My gut reaction is that Lunar Rod=instant win against a hell of a lot! Speed holds her back.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5. Better than Yuri!
Bart Fatima: 5. Has some neat tricks at least.
Rico Banderas: 2. Horrid, horrid speed. If his defense buff worked, he'd be better.
Billy Lee Black: 8.5
Maria Balthasar: 0. Being the best mage would better if magic wasn't designed to kill things with like 5 HP!
Chu-Chu: 0. Best healing mult, being magic mults, some kind of weird innate crisis boost to physicals...off of shit durability, speed, and attack stats!
Emeralda Kasim: 6. Solid physicals off that killer base speed.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9/10
Alice Elliot: 7/10 - CT baits~
Zhuzhen Liu: 4.5/10
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 5/10
Keith Valentine: 6/10
Halley Brancket: 6.5/10
-
Fei Fong Wong: 8- Becides Citan, Fei is easily second best (well, becides maybe Billy, who comes much later) Is fairly fast and hits hard
Elly Van Houten: 6- okay, Whats wierd is that one time she was doing close to Fei for damage when she had less attack. Still cant go wrong with Elly, except her speed.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 10- Fastest, strongest and can make himself faster? Also starts with way more HP than everyone? Can we say "Broken"
Bart Fatima: 5-Hes useful with Wild Smile, and wasnt a burden
Rico Banderas: 3- Well forced for one dungeon, strong but slow and inaccurate, not the worst though
Billy Lee Black: 8- Excellent Healer, I never really understood guns, sometimes they did massive damage and sometimes hardly any at all (and no I wasnt using the elemental one)
Maria Balthasar: 1- Puny
Chu-Chu: 1- Puny
Emeralda Kasim: 6- See Elly, only faster and comes later. So worth the same score.
-
Billy Lee Black: 8- Excellent Healer, I never really understood guns, sometimes they did massive damage and sometimes hardly any at all (and no I wasnt using the elemental one)
Yeah, I remember seeing that as well. I think "bullet" or whatever may have been it's own element that things had resistance/weakness to? Since iirc, they were at least fairly reliable about doing the same damage to the same things, be it really good or really bad. Hell if I know enough about XG mechanics to guess beyond that.
-
Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.5/10. Yeah, ridiculously broken, but not quite 10/10 material. The main thing that stands out to me is that for the first half of the game, he's really not THAT broken; oh, clear game best PC with little to no flaws, make no mistake, but he didn't really stand out as OMG HAX!!! until the 2nd half.
Alice Elliot: 7/10. Competent Healer, though damage could use work.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3.5/10. I seem to recall he had a nice high damage move in Asia, and was your only real source of MT damage in Asia too! Pity that's about all he has going for him.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10. Generic Item Girl; has alright speed and durability, and a scan move, that's about it.
Keith Valentine: 4.5/10. Margarete with better durability, worse speed, Life Drain move that lets him do damage and heal himself at the same time, thus speeds battles up slightly! Oh, and awesome SP, which means you spend less time healing it.
Halley Brancket: 4/10. Another Item boy.
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 7/10. Non-stellar main, though, it is a point in his favor that he does have a level edge a good part of the time, which makes him a little better in practice.
Elly Van Houten: 6/10. I remember her physical damage being better than Fei's at times, notably in Solaris, and she did have MT damage, if it wasn't reliable.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5/10. Yeah, really all he's missing is his MT Healing that can be used on consecutive turns. Otherwise, he's just plain wrong.
Bart Fatima: 4/10. Wild Smile is pretty cool. Its also like his only real thing he has going for him.
Rico Banderas: 3/10. Hey look! Text Book Slow Tank! Except Citan and Fei match him in durability, and unlike them, he's slow as fuck. Also his damage isn't that special.
Billy Lee Black: 8/10. Good Healer/support character who has good damage too. Just a text book example of a very solid, though not exceptional, PC.
Maria Balthasar: 2/10. Mage Rico or something! Which means she has his problems *AND* crappy durability, whoo!
Chu-Chu: 1/10. But I believe Chu-chu was even worse! And no, the "CAN BE TWINKED!" logic does not apply to On-foot Chuchu, before someone tries to come in hyping that; every On-Foot PC can benefit from Drive Twinking and Chu-chu has LESS potential than they do, so the logic just kind of fails horribly.
Emeralda Kasim: 6/10. Struggle to give her higher due to availability. Not only does she join late, but its after a point where the game really emphasizes on Gear fights, IIRC, so I can't realistically give her much higher I feel.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.5/10. Yuri just doesn't justify a 10 to me, but he's absolutely retarded: starts out as your best PC, being your only buffer, your main offense and having the best random-busting stats in the earlygame - oh and he's a good healer too. Then, midgame kicks in and he turns into the only person with MT OHKO damage to randoms -alongside having all the things he had beforehand-. Running off game-best speed -anyway-. Then Sandalphon kicks in and he's your best healer until Alice gets her good healing spells. Then he gets Amon and then Seraphic Radiance and... yeah, just absolutely insane. Yuri could very well solo the game, and, in practice, SH1 is pretty much Yuri+Alice challenge run. You just don't even notice the challenge.
Alice Elliot: 6.5/10. She's the only other PC who truly matters. The fact she can dedicate herself to healing, healing and healing while Yuri kills the universe basically trivializes everything -ever-. She does take her sweet time learning the good healing stuff, though, so she obviously can't be all that good - the fact Sandalphon Yuri is obviously a stronger healer than she is for a fair amount of time tells us something here. Still, she's the only non-Yuri PC that matters.
Zhuzhen Liu: 3/10. Non-Yuri/Alice PCs exist solely to be warm bodies and item caddies. Zhuzhen is the worst of them, having game-worst speed and durability. BUTBUTBUT SKILLSET yeah no skillset sucks.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item girl purposes. Skillset fails beyond belief, but who cares.
Keith Valentine: 4/10. Balanced stat spread for item boy purposes, but less speed than Margarete. Skillset has theoretical uses, but fails in practice and who cares.
Halley Brancket: 4.5/10. Fastest item boy, but frailer than both Margie and Keith. Best skillset of the four, which actually kinda means something because Halley's ST healing is better than Alice's for a short while, but besides that who cares.
I largely agree with the ratings Snow has given. Zhuzhen is quite clearly the worst, and everyone else's skillset matters so very little past a certain point sans Alice because Yuri exists. So yeah, C+P works.
Fei Fong Wong: 6/10. Above average sums him up pretty well. Good speed and maintains a decent offensive lead too due to getting the most screen time to build deathblows. His other skills aren't too good past that, and Yamikei is pretty much a non factor for way too long of the game, if any at all.
Elly Van Houten: 5/10. Speed is a primary issue. Durability too, for all that XG on foot randoms are around as scary as a wet paper bag. Having good weaponry bumps her up.
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.5/10. Ridiculously silly. Game best speed, and a very solid skill set along with non-fail damage and decent enough time to build Death blows would've been enough. Then of course the game decides, no, that isn't enough and gives him a freaking sword to boot.
Bart Fatima: 4/10. Wild Smile, yeah. Past that, like Elly isn't a terrible choice to use, but doesn't have any real compelling reason to be placed into the party.
Rico Banderas: 2/10. Rico had a conglomerate of problems, like even worse speed than Elly (I think), not terribly stellar defense, and his offense suffered accuracy issues due to the entire "immunes grappling DBs" thing. Oh, and his skillset is terrible too.
Billy Lee Black: 8/10. Yeeeeeah. Snow pretty much sums it up. Starting with MT full healing and the only person that can repeatedly do so without taking an extra turn to prepare for it would already be pretty good. Then he also has MT status healing and XG Haste. I recall his Ether guns being powered up by EtherDoublers too, which also means his offense remains solid, leaving the only real problem being the low speed.
Maria Balthasar: 1/10. Haha. No Deathblows, terrible stats. Winnar
Chu-Chu: 0/10. Unless you are OK, there is pretty much never a reason to place her into the party for on-foot battles ever. Being a pure project that requires you to GRIND FOR DRIVES is FFT Mime level worthy failure.
Emeralda Kasim: 7/10. Nice speed, decent offense. Enough for a 7 anyway.
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Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: 9.53
Alice Elliot: 6.53
Zhuzhen Liu: 3.08
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 3.92
Keith Valentine: 4.58
Halley Brancket: 4.46
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6.62
Elly Van Houten: 4.92
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 9.46
Bart Fatima: 4.38
Rico Banderas: 2.72
Billy Lee Black: 7.81
Maria Balthasar: 1.00
Chu-Chu: 0.85
Emeralda Kasim: 6.46
Best Rating of this Session: Yuri w/ 9.53
Worst Rating of this session: Chu-chu w/ 0.85
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
7. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
8. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
9. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
10. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
I would just like to note that you are all lazy bastards and should form your OWN DAMN OPINIONS! NOt...that I can force them upon you or anything...actually, the method of laziness administered for the Shadow Hearts cast I'm completely ambivalent of, but you're all still lazy bastards!
(Translation: I really don't care; just observing and being silly, don't mind me!)
That said...
Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol:
Rose:
Meru:
Haschel:
Albert Serdio:
Dart:
Miranda:
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears:
Vierge:
Heimdall/Fenrir:
Brigandier/Andvari:
(El-)Stier:
(El-)Renmazuo:
Seibzehn:
Mega Chu-chu:
Crescens:
NOTE: I'm doing this for simplicity sake. So when you see "Albert Serdio", assume that does include Lavitz, since they are functionally the same character. No technicalities and what not, think of them as the same. Naturally, Miranda and Shana get the same treatment.
ALSO, because of the screwed up character replacement nonsense here, I have decided that LoD's order will be COMPLETELY ARBITRARY rather than the usual "order is determined by appearance" or Alphabetical order.
NOTE 2: Gears are listed in same order as their on foot PCs, in case you forget who gets what, just refer back to the On Foot list, and adapt accordingly.
-
Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: Clear LVP. Has no speed or any worthwhile tricks to speak of. 1/10
Rose: Good early, but trails off some later on. Still, early LoD is the hardest part, I think? Gets her extra points. 7/10
Meru: The start is just too hard to ignore, really, but hey, speed is nice and she can itemwhore and the shit durability matters all of never. 5/10
Haschel: Fastish and hits pretty hard. Not much to say other than I wish you could punt Dart for him. 5/10
Albert Serdio: Good damage early and Rose Storm is a nice trick. Past that eh. 4/10
Dart: Utterly bland and lacking in any tricks. Needed to not be forced. 3/10
Miranda: More fast itemwhoring, but with more availability and WSD is cool. Edit: Eh, sure, limited inventory hurts but it can be worked around, and LoD items are that damn good. 7/10
Xenogears (Gears):
Blanket abstention. I barely remember Gear performance and I don't care enough to rack my brain for some arbitrary numbers that may be significantly off base.
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears:
Vierge:
Heimdall/Fenrir:
Brigandier/Andvari:
(El-)Stier:
(El-)Renmazuo:
Seibzehn:
Mega Chu-chu:
-
Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 2/10. HP is nice! The rest is so bad.
Rose: 7/10. Nice offense, durability could be better.
Meru: 5/10. Didn't find her impreessive till late when I did try her out.
Haschel: 6.5/10- Would be in the running for MVP if he had one less addition.
Albert Serdio: 7.5/10. Dominates most of the game, Gust of Wind dance is stupid and Rose Storm is very good as well.
Dart: 5/10- He's at least durable. That is useful.
Miranda: Abstain.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10. Always good.
Vierge: 9.5/10. Loses half a point for the obscure setup, but man. Aerods destroy the world.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5/10. Felt pretty average.
Brigandier/Andvari: 6/10
(El-)Stier: 3/10. Still too slow, Rico.
(El-)Renmazuo: 6/10- I guess.
Seibzehn:- Didn't use.
Mega Chu-chu:- 1/10- die
Crescens:- Abstain
-
LoD doesn't exist.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 7/10. Does stuff, always there. Gear fights suck
Vierge: 8/10. Awesome when she is there and then gone for the most gear intensive section of the game. Gear fights suck.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5/10. Above average speed? Maybe?
Brigandier/Andvari: 4/10. Using it means using Bart. No.
(El-)Stier: 4/10. Better than Rico and speed hurts less in gear fights. Still blows and gear fights suck
(El-)Renmazuo: 8/10 Aerods destroys the world, on the other hand Renmazou can destroy bosses by shooting his dad at people with the same setup and also do about 4kish damage at the cost of 20 fuel for randoms. Ranmazuo is broken and you just don't know it. Availablity and competition with Vierge is its only really downside. OH and it isn't MT, boohoo.
Seibzehn: 4/10 Means using Maria. No.
Mega Chu-chu: 2/10 Has theoretical use so gets 4/10. Means using Chu-Chu so loses 2 points
Crescens: 5/10 You should probably use Crescens because the other options are kind of horrible and you should be using Elly.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 2/10. Man, this is a winner. Kongol sports the -worst- stat combo anyone could possibly have in LoD: horrible speed/magic/magic defense. To make matters worse, his damage is even -bad-. gj.
Rose: 7/10. Very solid throughout. Learning her best addition early is cool, her Dragoon form is solid and she has pretty decent stats where it matters most. HP is a problem, though. Also, a bit of a Jeigan, since she loses value later.
Meru: 6/10. That disc-long rut where she has no Dragoon form and her additions fail is pretty bad. However, high magic and game-best speed go a long way long-term, and her Dragoon form is badass. Her addition damage is even solid enough due to the nutsy mults.
Haschel: 5/10. Solid physical stats, but magic is -the- way to go in LoD. Still decent, since he lacks true statistical ruts besides magic, and the physical offense covers that fairly decently.
Albert Serdio: 5.5/10. If you get Gust of Wind Dance early, he gets the game's strongest physical damage for quite a while. Speed is very problematic, though - unlike Haschel, whose speed covers the magical lack okay enough due to good physicals, Albert's longer term offense openly suffers there. Not sure I care much about Rose Storm either, LoD enemies are almost universally poor at offense for most of the game, and the only ones who -do- have offense have to deal with the fact your healing no longer completely sucks.
Dart: 4/10. Agh average to below average in all stats that matter.
Miranda: 7.5/10. Fast and your best mage, she utterly owns randoms with proper item usage. Also your first healer. Building her Dragoon magic (which you want) being counterproductive to winning randoms hurts her a bit, though, so I can't justify an 8.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10. Weltall has solid stats and Weltall 2's System ID is great. Then, there's Xenogears, who smashes the world.
Vierge: 8.5/10. The stats are also great and the Aerods twinking is -nuts-. Loses points for the obscurity, though.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5/10. Um. Heimdall sucks. Fortunately, Fenrir doesn't, but you have to cope with Heimdall for a long time.
Brigandier/Andvari: 3/10. Um.
(El-)Stier: 3/10. AGH 7 XG SPEED AGH MISSING TRIANGLE ATTACKS
(El-)Renmazuo: 5.5/10. Ether gun twinking is very nice. Very limited otherwise, though.
Seibzehn: 6/10. It falls off later, but Seibzehn gets to enjoy a fairly long edge in stats and durability over most gears when it joins, and it's still a notably better Stier even by the lategame.
Mega Chu-chu: 1/10. Worthless. Drive twinking can bite me.
Crescens: 6/10. Fast is good. Can play a poor man's Vierge role in the endgame, but that's not too impressive, just okay. The physical offense could be better.
God, XG gears fail at making me care.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 3/10 Granted, I never finished the game, but I was on disc 3 and used everyone. Tank. Tanks are useful sometimes
Rose: 7/10 Jeigan is a good summary of Rose. I used her alot
Meru: 8/10 Magic and physical damage. Fastest character. Only weakness is HP.
Haschel: 7/10 He was pretty fast and damaging
Albert Serdio: 6/10 Good early on at least
Dart: 7/10 All around average and the only one who I could time his additions 100% of the time. He gets points for that
Miranda: 5/10 No damage, but excelent healer. I usually just used Meru when I needed a mage, since Meru has physical damage too.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 10/10 I seem to remember an auto infinity mode option.
Vierge: 8/10 Would be a 9, but you cant use her much
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5/10 okay, really meh
Brigandier/Andvari: 5/10 See Heimdal
(El-)Stier: 5/10 TANK! I might over rate tanks. But I like them
(El-)Renmazuo: 6/10 Guns are nice
Seibzehn: 7/10 Really tanky and strong.
Mega Chu-chu: 5/10 I actually used her quite a bit. Since she has the only gear heal move, and she helped against the fuel draining section of the final boss. I didnt really use that many drives either.
Crescens: 9/10 Fastest gear. I'm pretty sure Crescens has a secret damage boost. Simlar to Vierge, only can be used endgame.
-
Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 3/10. You can use Kongol (Legend Casque is broke, y'see). there's just no compelling reason to. It seems they systematically made him be the exact opposite of Meru (high attack stat with no mults behind it, shit speed, def vs mdef) then forgot to design the game in a balanced way so that both builds had use.
Rose: 6/10. Gets the job done. Astral Drain is a nice niche in the early going, and the game goes out of its way to compensate her poor growths in the late game to ensure she never drops off.
Meru: 8/10. Best character in the game. The fact that she's quite usable initially, when she has no dragoon form, no good additions, and no way to cover her fraility says much.
Haschel: 6/10. He's alright. Not really bad at anything.
Albert Serdio: 5/10. He starts off pretty good (super early access to high end additions, his second spell is nifty) but the game apparently doesn't like him so he just... doesn't have any damage later one, and defense isn't what you need.
Dart: 5/10. There's a strangely high number of enemies he nails weakness on, so he's actually always useful despite the statistical weakness.
Miranda: 7/10. Good stuff. The fact that she can't do anything physically, rather than just taking a while to get going, makes her feel worse than Meru to me.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 7/10. Never bad, smashtastic for disc 2. That said, while System Id really is a bit broken, Xenogears is more of a crutch; a good setup will kill Deus before it's special properties have a chance to kick in, but if you don't have good setups it'll smash more or less on its own. Waffling between a 7 and an 8 overall, aiming low for now.
Vierge: 8/10. Broke, but a pain in the butt to set up. You either have to not spend any money in the early game or go nearly an hour out of your way to get the critical piece of the puzzle. So sure, dock a point for that.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 6/10. Heimdall fails to impress, but less because it's useless than because it just doesn't do anything Weltall (1) can't, and you already have to use Weltall.
Brigandier/Andvari: 4/10. Wild Smile is an awesome skill and it's easy to forget how good it is (especially if you set up for evade), but that's all Bart's gears have. EVERYTHING else they do is worse than Weltall, our baseline.
(El-)Stier: 5/10. The shitty speed hurts less in gears (universal Haste skill and the enemies aren't any faster to compensate), and his power boost is a noticable boon over other folks (he likes to OHKO weaker enemies everyone else takes two turns with). At the least, he's always better than Brigandier and Heimdall.
(El-)Renmazuo: 8/10. When you first get Billy, there's this stretch of the game (lasting through Shevat stuff) where his square attack is the most damaging thing you have besides Aerods (I think enemy Edef is piss poor here). So he's actually pretty good even if you don't give him the Elly setup. He's not as good at it, obviously, but since he's functional without that we'll give them the same score.
Seibzehn: 7/10. #17 you could never ever upgrade and she'd still be a viable endgame unit. 8 speed is unfortunate, but yeah, smashes the fuck out of a portion of the game and is never truly bad.
Mega Chu-chu: 3/10. Point for crazy person twinking potential, I guess. She's actually a good healer type, but the actual healing is weaker than you might like. And of course she can't attack. Period. Even if you drug up her attack she won't hit anything (the speed IS salvagable, though never good; speed rings carry over for her)
Crescens: 7/10. 13 base speed means she's very flexible. Has the stats to use the ether setup if you want (not as well as Billy or Elly, due to not having any Special Option attacks), of you can just abuse her HASTED CITAN LEVEL SPEED and use her regular attacks. Either way really.
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Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10.
Vierge: 7/10.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5/10.
Brigandier/Andvari: 3/10.
(El-)Stier: 2/10.
(El-)Renmazuo: 4/10.
Seibzehn: 6/10.
Mega Chu-chu: 1/10.
Crescens: 6/10.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 3. Hmm, thinking on this, I feel like 2 is probably the range for someone that I feel is flat out too much of a liability. Kongol is usuable, but the niche he's designed for just is not useful in game.
Rose: 6. Hmm, better Mdur and speed than Albert, but for so much of the game he has this massive damage advantage. Felt about even to me usewise, I think.
Meru: 7. Speeeed+good magic+picks up solid physicals at the end+easy to cover her weak point. Of course, takes the longest to get going.
Haschel: 7. Best combo of speed and durability.
Albert Serdio: 6. Hmm, running generally at 2x damage to 1.5x damage for a disk and a half is pretty bad ass.
Dart: 5.5. Slight points dock for being locked in game where much of a the time he may not even be the 4th best person! That said, he's generally servicable, doesn't have any major defensive flaws.
Miranda: 7. Needing the item spaces to do any damage holds her back, as does lack of physical damage, but the best magic score and having her only competition take until disk 3 to get her dragoon item makes her use veerry solid.
Tightly curved cast.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 3 - Slowtastic, but still usable at least.
Rose: 7 - Earlygame crutch, where it matters most. Never really becomes bad.
Meru: 7 - Best endgame character, but takes forever to get her there.
Haschel: 6 - Better Dart.
Albert Serdio: 6 - Good earlygame, kinda hard to use at endgame.
Dart: 5 - Average from start to finish, gains a point for hitting weakness a lot, loses a point for being forced and not letting me use better people.
Miranda: 6.5 - WSD is nice, but late, and she's too frail early one.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 7/10. Never bad, smashtastic for disc 2. That said, while System Id really is a bit broken, Xenogears is more of a crutch; a good setup will kill Deus before it's special properties have a chance to kick in, but if you don't have good setups it'll smash more or less on its own. Waffling between a 7 and an 8 overall, aiming low for now.
Vierge: 8/10. Broke, but a pain in the butt to set up. You either have to not spend any money in the early game or go nearly an hour out of your way to get the critical piece of the puzzle. So sure, dock a point for that.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 6/10. Heimdall fails to impress, but less because it's useless than because it just doesn't do anything Weltall (1) can't, and you already have to use Weltall.
Brigandier/Andvari: 4/10. Wild Smile is an awesome skill and it's easy to forget how good it is (especially if you set up for evade), but that's all Bart's gears have. EVERYTHING else they do is worse than Weltall, our baseline.
(El-)Stier: 5/10. The shitty speed hurts less in gears (universal Haste skill and the enemies aren't any faster to compensate), and his power boost is a noticable boon over other folks (he likes to OHKO weaker enemies everyone else takes two turns with). At the least, he's always better than Brigandier and Heimdall.
(El-)Renmazuo: 8/10. When you first get Billy, there's this stretch of the game (lasting through Shevat stuff) where his square attack is the most damaging thing you have besides Aerods (I think enemy Edef is piss poor here). So he's actually pretty good even if you don't give him the Elly setup. He's not as good at it, obviously, but since he's functional without that we'll give them the same score.
Seibzehn: 7/10. #17 you could never ever upgrade and she'd still be a viable endgame unit. 8 speed is unfortunate, but yeah, smashes the fuck out of a portion of the game and is never truly bad.
Mega Chu-chu: 3/10. Point for crazy person twinking potential, I guess. She's actually a good healer type, but the actual healing is weaker than you might like. And of course she can't attack. Period. Even if you drug up her attack she won't hit anything (the speed IS salvagable, though never good; speed rings carry over for her)
Crescens: 7/10. 13 base speed means she's very flexible. Has the stats to use the ether setup if you want (not as well as Billy or Elly, due to not having any Special Option attacks), of you can just abuse her HASTED CITAN LEVEL SPEED and use her regular attacks. Either way really.
CK covers it quite nicely. He knows his XG.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 2/10. I can't think why you'd use him over Albert, and using both is for people who hate getting turns and surviving any of the game's plentiful boss mages.
Rose: 8/10. Always felt like a fairly clear MVP to me. God stats upon join, gets her final addition fast, decent speed and magic, good spells (drain/fear/death are all good). Never really dominant, but yeah.
Meru: 6/10. I think? Speed's nice, as is the magic attack. A bit shaky for a while early, though.
Haschel: 5/10. Borderline needs addition grinding (he has way too many of them and a lot of them suck) but is pretty good once you get past that.
Albert Serdio: 5/10. Is quite cool for a while on Disc 2, but then his damage never gets better ever and he's always 10 speed below any other non-Kongol PC with suspect durability.
Dart: 5/10. Haschel with less speed but more durability and a better element. Even more scrub deathblows to cut through, but his non-final ones are generally better I think (midgame Crash Dance has quite a lot of oomph).
Miranda: 7/10. Game-best magic is awesome, as are the dragoon spells, as is the gross mdur (way better than anyone else in quite a few boss fights). On the other hand, can't do too much in randoms beyond grind for SP (until Psyche Bomb X). At least it takes less time than grinding additions, and she can toss an attack item in a pinch.
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10. System Id and Xenogears in general are both gross. Easily MVP for me once you get those.
Vierge: Abstain.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 6/10. Fenrir's pretty cool, Heimdal's a little underwhelming but at least he's not slow.
Brigandier/Andvari: 4/10. Two points for Wild Smile, one for being the second best PC briefly after you get Andvari. Otherwise, all-around scrub.
(El-)Stier: 3/10. A bit confused by the "bad speed hurts less in gears" thing, it's harder to fix there!
(El-)Renmazuo: 5/10. The ether gun comment is pretty spot on. Too bad Renmazuo kinda sucks otherwise.
Seibzehn: 6/10. Midgame smash.
Mega Chu-chu: 2/10. Point for twinking potential, but blargh.
Crescens: 7/10. Fast and no real weaknesses (well, HP could be better) to compensate for this.
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Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10. Bog standard Weltall is around a 6 or a 7. Not terribly impressive, but like his pilot, plenty servicable and gets the job done while being well balanced all around. Weltall-2 of course, has System Id, which is THE best special option sans Aerods I want to say. Xenogears is your free beat-game button thanks to 99% Hyper mode. Those two are probably around 9s or so. Averaging the scores out makes this around a 8.
Vierge: 8/10. Aerods are retardedly awesome. The set up is definitely obscure - the Ether Doubler costs close to 40k AND you have to go out of the way to get it. And if you miss it, there's only like one other one the game gives you. On top of that, she's not even around for the last stretch of the game. Otherwise, there really is nothing else to say. Good speed, and the ether spells compliment Aerods if you actually run out of fuel.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5/10. Fenrir's badass. Heimdal...not so much. You're stuck with him for a while, but yeah, what NEB said.
Brigandier/Andvari: 4/10. Pretty bad. Wild Smile gives him brownie points though (you need it to win against those super bosses!) and Andvari gets time as a Jeigan of sorts when his stats are much superior to everyone else's
(El-)Stier: 4/10. *7* XG speed? Jesus. Thankfully, there are some truths to the fuel efficiency thing with Stier, although its pretty much for all the wrong reasons and nothing to really write home about. He DOES recover more HP just because his max is higher, although relatively, heals for the same amount. And he also does have enough power to one shot weaker enemies that others sometimes take longer to kill, so his damage/fuel looks better. He can also fit more gear accessories without being weighed down, but at 7 XG speed if he did, his gear would be pretty much flat out unusable instead of just below average.
(El-)Renmazuo: 5.5/10. Stats aren't terribly impressive. Billy's main selling point are the Ether guns which has already been mentioned. Dealing around 4k damage a pop at the cost of -20- fuel when some characters need level 2 deathblows to do that is immensely cool
Seibzehn: 7/10. It's like Stier, but gets a significant longer portion midgame where it outshines everyone and is a better Stier either way. Oh yeah, SHE HAS DEATHBLOWS !!!11!
Mega Chu-chu: 1/10. I actually question the only remote use you could have of her when untwinked as Gear healing to me is usually not worth the tradeoff of that extra accessory option.
Crescens: 7/10. She can use an Ether twink build pretty well too (9k damage to Deus? 6-7k to everything else in the final dungeon? YES). Elemental means of course you have to take care, but pretty beastly when set up. HP is sorta low and the speed in practice is probably lower as Crescens has a low weight limit threashold before being weighed down, but she's very solid otherwise.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 2/10. Um, yeah, the exact kind of stat spread that LoD does not compliment, Kongol has, and he has nothing to make up for it.
Rose: 7.5/10. Generally, see Elfboy, though a little less respect for her spells overall.
Meru: 6/10. Yeah, great once she gets going, but she takes actual time to get going.
Haschel: 6/10. A physical fighter with Good Speed!? HOLY CRAP!
Albert Serdio: 5/10. Gust of Wind Dance is an awesome Addition for most of the game, and Rose Storm is something he has to make up for his magic defense (unlike Kongol who has nothing), however, he still has a lot of Kongol's issues otherwise, if less pronounced.
Dart: 4/10. Rarely is there a main character who feels like a hinderance being forced into your team; Dart is one of those. Average in most ways without standing out in anything, and many a time I wanted to punt him for someone else cause they could do what he did while filling other niches.
Miranda: 7/10. Meru who requires less effort to get going, and better at some of the things Meru specialized in anyway!
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10. Weltall is decent enough, if nothing special on Disc 1, but the Disc 2 performance of Weltall-2 and Xenogears cannot be ignored at all. I'd give it higher if that latter performance was a larger percentage of the game.
Vierge: 6/10. Good Twink Build, but not much else.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 4/10. The opposite of Weltall I feel, in that the stand out part is the longer section of the game. The issue? Heimdall stands out as being "Suck"; Fenrir's decent at least.
Brigandier/Andvari: 4/10. Wild Smile is good, as is being one of the best Gears you have for a brief period of time (Right when you get Andvari), but otherwise, yeah, crappy.
(El-)Stier: 3/10. Rico in a Mech, awwww yeah?
(El-)Renmazuo: 5/10. The Ether Gun thing is cool, otherwise, nothing special.
Seibzehn: 6/10. Kicks ass when you first get it, remains competent and pretty much always better than Stier throughout most of the game.
Mega Chu-chu: 1/10. The twinking potential means I can't realistically give her a 0 *shakes fist*
Crescens: 7/10. Good "Mage" Gear and what not.
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Legend of Dragoon: Been way too long since I played. May come back to this
Kongol:
Rose:
Meru:
Haschel:
Albert Serdio:
Dart:
Miranda:
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 8/10 Does the job as Welltall, then blows shit sky high as the others.
Vierge: Abstain. Played XG before I had internet, thus never knew about her broked setup. Vierge didn't much impress without it.
Heimdall/Fenrir: 6/10. Heimdall never felt THAT bad, and Fenrir is good enough to bring the score up.
Brigandier/Andvari: 5/10. Wild Smile or something. Felt average enough.
(El-)Stier: 2/10. I tried using it. I really did. Wasn't a good idea.
(El-)Renmazuo: 7/10. Yeah I noticed Ether Guns carving things up.
Seibzehn: 7/10. It's Seibzhen, does the job, does it well.
Mega Chu-chu: 2/10. Yeah, I'd coinflip which between El-Stier and Mega Chu-chu I'd use. Neither's contributing enough to be noticable anwyay.
Crescens: 6/10. Just as good as Renmazuo, less availability docking a point? Sure, sounds about right.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 4/10 - Hits hard when he first joins and is especially scary if you pick up his dragoon early from the Black Market - Kongol + Attack Badge + D Special + Auto D Addition = bringing the pain. Doesn't last long and the over all horrendous mixture of terrible speed, magic offence and magic defence results in a bottom end PC who has very low ratability in the long run all things considered. Poor spell selection too (probably the worst of the dragoon sets) The one other thing that he has going for him apart from early game strength is tanking as he boasts tremendous high DEF and tremendous HP. I suppose that's nice but it would have been better for him if most enemies in this hadn't been magic orientated, they don't hit DEF and shred through the HP in no time.
Rose: 6/10 - Definitely MVP for disc one at least. Rules supreme (unless you train Shana like mad for D levels once you get the White Silver spirit) Impressive stats across the board leading to both very good physical and very good magical offence running at above average speed for the time. With the equipment from Shirley's Shrine and a Cape from Lohan Rose is a real unholy terror. Rose + MAG twink + D Special + Astral Drain for veery nice. Rose also fills a nice on disc one as an item tosser too. However though Astral Drain especially twinked is very nice early on I never found much use for Rose's other spells. Instant Death and Fear are nice but they don't work on most bosses (not that I know of anyway) and randoms are for addition building or outright nuking. However I suppose it's still there if you want to abuse it for randoms and something to think about. Fear working on bosses would have been very nice though. I just think Rose's spell set is more of a DL thing overall. Her dragon summon is one of the weakest in the long run too. Moving on getting a final addition early is also a perk in Rose's favour but by that point Albert's giving her a run for her money at the same time, Shana's getting spells and is faster and then the even
faster Meru joins. By that point Meru and Shana have Tiaras (Meru even join with one) to augment their item throwing and Rose's niche has been served. Unless you've trained to get her dragon early by the time Meru joins Rose becomes surpassed by the other girls for magics. However this by no means saying that Rose becomes bad or unusable at this point. She's still solid overall especially with physicals/Demon's Dance. She's a great character
for disc 1/2. By disc three though when Meru's picking up spells Rose's worth falls sharply. Magic is more powerful and Sharanda/Meru are nuking things left right and center. Stuff like W Silver dragon and Freezing Ring/Blue Sea Dragon with stat up/down item abuse completely obliberate addition damage with the same. Dragoons also getting a damage boost from Special also contributes to that. Rose's rather lacking weapon selection on the later discs doesn't help matters, in short Rose is one of the best characters for the first two discs but probably one of the worse for the second two and it's only when she gets DB that things start picking up for her again. Second strongest physical damage is niice and makes her a fine choice for the final in a purely physical orientated team =-)
Sorry for the rather length explanation here, I just felt that it deserved one since Rose is by no means Kongol bad and although I do feel her worth drops in the end she does that that awesme start. Sorry if I went overboard *^_^*
Meru: 8/10
Haschel: 8/10 - Hestitated a bit over this but Destroyer Mace really is something else.
That, physicals in general off one off the highest speeds (+best of out of the guys) in the game combined with higher ATK than Meru, no elemental weaknesses and the fact that he actually ends up the third most powerful with magic (dragon summon) at higher levels makes the package. Does some surprising damage under the right conditions with magic early on as well despite the girls having the higher MAG stat Haschel's spell modifiers and his element basically never hitting resistance helps him out. Not that he's better than them just that he has better magic offence in his own right that you're led to believe at first. The only thing is that his dragoon spell set lacks variety.
Albert Serdio: 6.5/10 - See Rose except more physically dominant, has a better weapon pool disc 3/4 (DB aside) and Blossom/Rose Storm. Starts off worse (given that magic damage usually does more damage than additions even early on where both Rose and Shana can abuse item spells to outperform them) but ends up slightly better overall I think. Snow makes a good point about Rose Storm but it does excel on the rare occassions where it does see use - i.e it makes Albert one of the best characters for the Faust fight. That and that unlike
Miranda and Haschel he can utilise elemental protection from dragoon armour vs Faust elemental counters thingy (the other two can't pick on their armours until the Moon) Rose Storm is also worth mentioning for the Lenus fights I guess (mainly if you're not using any of the girls but yeah) Surprisingly the Jade dragoon is also fairly solid at magic, at least when hitting weakness. Lavitz can put out some nasty damage vs Kongol and the other wind weak bosses on disc one bosses if he has Gaspless and Gaspless can really do a number against the likes of Grand Jewel and Belzac later as well. Despite the speed/MDef woes Albert makes up with it with sheer disc two dominance off his pros and even though Meru/Haschel eventually surpass him he still remains a solid choice on the later discs. Maybe not worth using overall for the final but definitely for Faust and the other optional bosses/etc.
Dart: 7/10 - Divine Cannon being the strongest spell in the game saves him from being merely average or worse. Before that at least there's a lot of fire weak enemies/bosses in the game to abuse his magics against! Also his speed isn't outright bad and his physicals are usually solid to good especially once he gets the Soul Eater (where he can be twinked for some really nice damage)
Miranda: 7.5/10- Lack of additions and Meru having more powerful dragoon magics prevents her from getting an eight. Hard to believe but she actually ends up only fourth best at damage with dragoon magic at higher levels. I'd like to comment on her pros more but other people have covered them and I have to go now. Maybe later.
Rest later.
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Hm, I really disagree with Haschel > Rose. You say lightning can never hit resistance; this isn't true (lightning elemental enemies resist it). What it never does is hit weakness, so yeah, I kinda think of it as pretty bad. At least dark spells smash light elements in the face, although that's probably the rarest enemy type. More importantly, Rose has a large lead in magic stat, so when it comes to tossing items in, she does much better. Haschel does get a higher multiplier, but this only applies to dragoon magic.
Also, Rose has a large advantage in physicals, because she actually gets her final addition in a reasonable length of time. Haschel has to make 400 attacks instead of 240 to unlock his final addition, and he gets a later start on doing this since he joins near the end of disc 1. Several of those attacks really suck (one is locked at 100% multiplier, two more give 15 and 20 SP at all levels). I guess Haschel takes a lead in physicals once he masters all his additions, but that's probably going to be very late, and he loses that when Rose gets the Dragon Buster (granted, only for one battle, but hey). Destroyer Mace is hilarious but you only have it for a few extra fights compared to the Dragon Buster, so it doesn't really matter either.
Haschel does have an edge in durability, although it's pretty negligible on the magic front (varies based on level) and mdur is what matters, so yeah, not too impressed there. He also wins by 5 speed, but I don't think that's enough to overturn Rose's other advantages.
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Mdur difference is Haschel's 95ish vs Rose's 120ish at endgame, and is probably the biggest difference. I generally wouldn't use Rose as a magic item user anyways thanks to the highly limited inventory. Addition building is probably valid though (I was just thinking that if you use someone all the time, it's incredibly easy to master all their additions).
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Yuri Volte Hyuga: 10/10
Alice Elliot: 6.6/10
Zhuzhen Liu: 5.5/10
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: 5.1/10
Keith Valentine: 6/10
Halley Brancket: 6.1/10
Xenogears (on Foot):
Fei Fong Wong: 6.8/10
Elly Van Houten: 2.8/10
Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau: 6.8/10
Bart Fatima: 5.5/10
Rico Banderas: 2.2/10
Billy Lee Black: 6.8/10
Maria Balthasar: 0.1/10
Chu-Chu: 2.8/10
Emeralda Kasim: 6.5/10
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Mdur difference is Haschel's 95ish vs Rose's 120ish at endgame, and is probably the biggest difference. I generally wouldn't use Rose as a magic item user anyways thanks to the highly limited inventory. Addition building is probably valid though (I was just thinking that if you use someone all the time, it's incredibly easy to master all their additions).
Don't agree myself. I never ran from anything in the game and furthermore never ever experimented with my party - I literally used Dart / Rose / Albert the -entire game- when possible (with the exception of Lenus, whom I replaced Albert with Shana for). Dart got to lvl. 3 on this final addition, and Rose & Albert only mastered their final addition halfway through the final dungeon (meaning it was okay to stick the automatic-additions artifact on them then). I'll grant that I didn't perfect additions every time, but I suspect that even if I did this would at best mean you're mastering all the additions early Disc 4? Still wouldn't call that incredibly easy.
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Yeah, "make 480 attacks over the course of the game when you join late disc 1" doesn't strike me as incredibly easy if you don't stop and do it. Different people fight different numbers of randoms, but needing to cut few fewer crappy additions is very much a factor in how good LoD characters are. Haschel, admittedly, sticks in my mind for having IIRC the only addition in the game which is locked at 100% power even as it levels up.
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Everyone has their "SP Gain" addition. Dart technically has 2 Panic Rush is 150% damage all the time and he later learns one Madness Hero with 100% damage for twice the SP. Rose' More and More is 150% damage boost, Haschel's Summon 4 Gods is the 100% one, Lavitz' is majour lawls because Rod Typhoon start out horrible and increases damage and SP as it goes up starting at a horrible 30 SP 100% damage going up to 100 SP 202% damage boost (30 SP 100% damage is worse than his previous addition at level 1, but Spinning Cane ends up as 35 SP for 200% damage, which is lawls, seriously looking at Lavitz early additions is pretty painful for how bad they are, Gust of Wind Dance is awesome at level 11 though). Meru's Cool Boogie caps out at 200 SP at 100% damage the whole way through, so Haschel anti-hype + Meru hype is pretty awesome to see here. Kongol is Kongol and doesn't really count.
So yeah all the characters have shitty shitty additions in there. Rose and Dart technically have them less bad with 150%, but Dart has TWO of them to plow through and Madness Hero is not early on like More and More is (Fuck Dart so much).
From memory I believe the reasons Haschel's stands out so much is that you are likely to be working on Summon 4 Gods at about the Ghost ship I think it was (Level 18 he learns it and Rose Learns Hard Blade at 19, so you are working on them at similar times) so just when you are finishing off Rose and unlocking Demon's Dance you are working with Haschel's worst addition, which really makes it shine in horribleness. Of course it is also well after you should have Flower Storm on Lavitzbert. Soooo... yeah it comparatively looks worse than the other character's and I can definitely see why it stands out. Dart's bullshit is just one more piece of Dart bullshit, Lavitz and Rose' are out of the way early and Meru is purely a project character anyway, so it is just one more part of project character being a grind.
Edit - And screw you guys for making me look that shit up for that shitty game that I hate so much.
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For the record, I think that the number of additions Meru needs to learn is terrible too, you'll note I only have her 1 point above Haschel.
I had totally forgotten about Dart's Madness Hero, yeah that does suck, but at least it gives loads of SP.
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Yeah more just laying it all out there on the table than going nyah nyah elves are horrible at arguments and should explode like radios.
All the characters have them, they are all horrible when you use them, there is just a reason Haschel's stands out so much more and LoD is a horrible game.
Edit - Also for the record Madness Hero gives you the same SP as Flower Storm does, so yeah Lavitzbert is way better than I remember, still wouldn't use Albert over the other options, but the portions you have him as Lavitz? Really damned amazing.
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I suck at additions and basically switched all the characters around for DL purposes and still didn't have a problem getting all of them myself.
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It really depends on whether you take the time to thoroughly explore dungeons and always use unfinished additions or if you play efficiently and use your best additions for boss fights, I imagine. Also of course on how willing you are to drop items on randoms. but yeah, I think I've had Dart honestly need to grind to get all his additions when playing that way, but whether that's worth it in LoD depends on whether you like the game at base or are of the "what the fuck thsi game is terrible" mindset.
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Legend of Dragoon:
Kongol: 2.50
Rose: 6.85
Meru: 6.60
Haschel: 6.15
Albert Serdio: 5.65
Dart: 5.05
Miranda: 6.83
Xenogears (Gears):
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 7.91
Vierge: 7.89
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5.27
Brigandier/Andvari: 4.18
(El-)Stier: 3.55
(El-)Renmazuo: 6.18
Seibzehn: 6.30
Mega Chu-chu: 2.00
Crescens: 6.70
Best Rating of this session: Welltall(-2)/Xenogears w/ 7.91
Worst Rating of this session: Mega Chu-chu w/ 2.00
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
7. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
8. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
9. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
10. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
From now on, I am indeed going to bold Cast Best ratings, and italicize cast worst ratings. This is only going to be done for times we do multiple games at once, and just so those who do in fact stand out relative to their own cast get some acknowledgment...be it good or bad. Best/worst ratings will still be listed by sessions though.
MOVING ON! We will now get to working on 2 games that...were initially rated together! IN fact, they were the first games to be rated alongside each other in the first topic! Why do I remember this?
...I JUST DO OK!? Seriously, just shut up and rate or you all suck! This time, though, I'm gonna be more lenient on listing temps, since I'm confident that you guys can make good judgments regarding DNRs and what not. And if you aren't...screw you all <_<
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal:
Cinna:
Blank:
Marcus:
Vivi Ornitier:
Adelbert Steiner:
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros:
Freya Crescent:
Quina Quen:
Beatrix:
Eiko Carol:
Armarant Coral:
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley:
Alys Bragwin:
Hahn Mahlay:
Rune Walsh:
Gryz:
Rika:
Demi:
Wren:
Raja:
Kyra Tierny:
Seth:
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: Fighters in FF9 honestly didn't impress that much. Trances were occasionally useful, I guess, but past that Zidane didn't really impress and his tricks are pretty much bleh. Stealing in particular stands out as being crap regardless of what you get out of it due to the success rate of fail and Thievery hype deserves to be met with derisive laughter. 4/10
Cinna: Uh you have him for the first fight with Baku I think. DNR
Blank: Warm body for an utterly insignificant stretch of gametime. DNR
Marcus: Matters more! Still a skill-less FF9 fighter. 2.5/10
Vivi Ornitier: Uh damned if I know. Want to say he did better than the fighters, at any rate. 4.5/10
Adelbert Steiner: Best fighter for whatever that's worth. Availability holds him back from a higher score 4/10
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: Mmm, yeah. Pretty much does everything mid Disc 2 onwards. Was pretty useless for half of Disc 3 but otherwise good. 7/10
Freya Crescent: Meh. Dragon Crest is the only worthwhile thing there and that's if you bother to fight a bunch of dragons, and IIRC the move is late to boot and she has Steiner's availability woes. Still, I'd rather power up Dragon Crest than Frog Drop and it's about as easy to do so yeah. 4/10
Quina Quen: Ugh. I don't care how useful Blue Magic is, FF9's method of learning it is egregious fail. There's stuff there if you care enough to chip randoms but why care. 2/10
Beatrix: Abstain.
Eiko Carol: Dagger with better White Magic but worse summons. 6/10 works I guess.
Armarant Coral: Uh Chakra. Again, fighters pretty much amounted to being little more than warm bodies. 3.5/10
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: Man Chaz is unimpressive. At least he has a niche, even if said niche's value is debateable. 5/10
Alys Bragwin: Jeigan for when you need one sums it up. 7/10
Hahn Mahlay: Not terribly useful *and* poor availability? 3.5/10
Rune Walsh: Trails off somewhat later but pretty much makes random encounters his bitch. 8.5/10
Gryz: Uh BROSE. 2/10
Rika: MVP? Not sure but speedy healing/buffing and acceptable damage and durability is pretty awesome. 8.5/10
Demi: Wren-lite, for the most part. 6/10 sounds right, given the overall package.
Wren: Tank. Hits pretty hard too. Doesn't feel as valueable or Rune or Rika but 8/10 probably works.
Raja: Man that's a lot of healing there. TP healing, too. Availability kinda hurts but 7/10 sounds rightish.
Kyra Tierny: Rune-light at a time when Rune starts to feel less useful. 5/10
Seth: Abstain.
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5. Sure (And the score I gave every fighter!). Physical is decent damage for most of the game, and can expend some crystal points to hit a good weakness range. Beyond that...nothing minus alleviating some money woes with stealing at least
Cinna: DNR
Blank: DNR
Marcus: DNR
Vivi Ornitier: 4.5. Has some good ST damage generally, and constant MT too. But not really that much of an edge and he's lackluster anyways.
Adelbert Steiner: 5. Uh...sure. Best HP, physical is never bad. Options are really ever existing.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7. Doesn't have all of Eiko's White Magic, but being around longer means that she covers more niches as the game progresses (Sole early healer, Damage spiiiike mid disk 2, solid endgame etc)
Freya Crescent: 5. Eh, I'd say she's the worse fighter, but for at least a few of the actual challenging fights in game, Dragon Crest is kind of a money move and she's fully usuable otherwise.
Quina Quen: 2.5. Quina has some cute tricks, but is hampered by FF 9's status being shittier than previous games, Big Guard being costly and FF 9 buffers being short lived, and a heavy chunk of randomness. Not wholly unusable, but its niche is just kind of weak. White Wind isn't bad for a portion of the game.
Beatrix: DNR
Eiko Carol: 6.5. Solid healer choice.
Armarant Coral: 5. Kind of averagish with some insane damage against bosses disk 3. No flaws, but uninspiring.
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 6/10. Stealing has some payoff both in equipment and thievery if you're throughout, and he's got good stats. The skillset is pretty much shit outside of thievery's potential.
Cinna:-DNR
Blank:- DNR
Marcus:- DNR
Vivi Ornitier:- 3.5/10. Good early, awful late.
Adelbert Steiner: 5.5/10- Good damage and durable, but has availability issues.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 4/10- Oh yay, a healer without full life.
Freya Crescent: 6/10- Dragon crest, yeah.
Quina Quen: 3/10- Never found it useful at all.
Beatrix:- DNR.
Eiko Carol: 5/10- Frail but has actual decent revival.
Armarant Coral: Abstain
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 4/10. He just doesn't impress me. Oh yay he gets to have okay physical damage with setups just about every other fighter can also use and they're better than him at base for that twinking -and- usually don't need it to actually pull offense. The skillset also sucks. He'd be 3 to 2-level if stealing didn't provide so many good items, and he doesn't go any higher than 4 due to the steal command itself sucking.
Cinna: DNR. Failure.
Blank: DNR. Who cares.
Marcus: DNR. Who cares.
Vivi Ornitier: 4/10. Honestly, feels at about the level of Zidane. He's pure damage and kinda sucks at it - being MT is a niche, but Garnet and Eiko are able to fill in that niche too.
Adelbert Steiner: 7/10. Don't think the availability is too bad, and he's rather notably ahead of the damage curve along with having good durability and equipment in general.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10. Would honestly be higher if that half-disc lull where she randomly skips turns didn't exist. I honestly don't see the big issue with not having Full Life when Eiko's revival is damned late anyway and Garnet more than makes up for it with both her healing being competent enough during the time she has no damage and her damage being quite competent - and MT! - when her healing becomes outprioritized by Eiko's. Quite solid
Freya Crescent: 6.5/10. Think she's almost as good as Adelbert where it matters: Dragon's Crest is probably the best twinking potential move in the game besides maybe Frog Drop and her skillset has a few other useful things. Having Steiner equips doesn't hurt either.
Quina Quen: 7/10. Kneejerking it low because knowing where to use and get Quina's stuff can be a pain, but Quina's quite solid. Can get higher if you're more knowledgeable about the game.
Beatrix: DNR.
Eiko Carol: 7/10. The durability felt more of a problem than with Garnet, and while she gets somewhat better healing, Garnet's is generally enough - if you have to pick a healer, beside disc 3 before the haircut, Garnet's the way to go due to the better offense, even. However, I've always found the game rewarded you for using both. So, same score works, since Eiko lacks that Garnet rut.
Armarant Coral: 3/10. What's his -point- again?
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 6/10. Chaz just quietly grows stronger and stronger as the game goes on. He starts kinda bad, but then he grows into that physical fighter niche quite nicely. The holy damage and healing in a pinch along with steadily improving stats that end up all in the good side also doesn't hurt.
Alys Bragwin: 6.5/10. Honestly, she's fairly valuable for the time you have her. First buffer and she's your earliest and most reliable source of MT while she's around besides Rune's temp brokenness - and she's fast too!
Hahn Mahlay: 3/10. Terrible stat spread and his skillset doesn't grow into something interesting until he leaves. His only true use is as a high-profile healing battery, since he's too slow to help much with randoms and rather frail too.
Rune Walsh: 6.5/10. Quite a strong cannon with near-infinite resources for blowing shit up and has a weird stint where he actually -takes hits- due to twin shielding. Very one-dimensional, though.
Gryz: 3.5/10. One-dimensional like Rune and not nearly as strong. More durable in a vacuum, but he's just not good.
Rika: 9.5/10. Rika -utterly dominates- the game. Excellent stats and the best skillset in the game, she practically has it all: ST damage that is excellent in-game because she hits the two most common weaknesses, MT damage that also benefits from weakness-hitting, excellent speed, adequate durability, the beauty that is PS4 buffing (Deban, Saner and Shift? Oh god yes) -and- very comprehensive healing. The only thing Rika lacks is revival, and that's less of a downside than it is just something I'd like to have extra. Still, you can't go wrong with her.
Demi: 6/10. Wren -. MT revival is neat, but Demi sorta has to compete with Wren for space by the time you get to the point where she has oodles of it, and her durability is considerably lower than his. Offense is better, certainly, but she'd benefit from getting it in plentiful form before the very endgame. Interesting, though, and being able to play Wren's durability game+Barrier is obviously neat.
Wren: 7/10. Wren's durability is absolutely insane, and you -need- it. Barrier is the compliment you need for boss magic and Wren is -the- character who will reliably stand up to nearly anything the nasty PS4 bosses can throw at you. He lacks versatility at bosses, though: offense is lacking and, besides Barrier and throwing items, Wren won't really do all that much there. Randoms are also hit-and-miss, since his MT offense is free, but not great.
Raja: 7.5/10. Honestly, he's everything a healing battery should be besides the awful speed. Basically infinite healing and revival and MP healing and some buffing on the side and he actually can contribute to offense against a lot of bosses with St. Fire (yay plentiful holy weaknesses). Durability failures keep him from being any higher, though, as does the speed. On the other hand, rating this high running off -those- survivability stats should tell you how well Raja skillset translates in-game, and hell, twin shields exist to stop him from eating OHKOs right and left.
Kyra Tierny: 5.5/10. Solid stats for a healer/mage type, she can contribute both to healing battery purposes and random-busting fairly competently. Problem is her healing is entirely ST and she doesn't have the overkill resources of a Rune or a Raja.
Seth: DNR. Ew.
Rather solidly balanced casts all in all this time around.
-
Zidane Tribal: 9/10- Struck me as the best fighter in the game once you made his best weapons. Yeah, better than Stiener who isnt around much of the early game and comes back under leveled. Never got the "zidane is weak hype at all"
Cinna: DNR
Blank: DNR
Marcus: 2/10 Warm body for a bit. He is around for more than plot fights so her gets ranked
Vivi Ornitier: 5/10 Standard Mage
Adelbert Steiner: 7/10 Strongest Fighter, but her isnt around much early
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 8/10 Probably the second best character becides Zidane. Only flaw is depressed Garnet
Freya Crescent: 5/10 Useful early on at least
Quina Quen: 5/10 Jack of all trades, useful when Garnet is depressed since Eiko isnt around (white wind helps with healing)
Beatrix: DNR
Eiko Carol: 6/10 Weaker mage, Trance sucks compared to Garnets
Armarant Coral: 5/10 Proabaly okay, I just didnt use him much
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 8/10
Alys Bragwin: 9/10 She was pretty good when she was around
Hahn Mahlay: 5/10
Rune Walsh: 8/10
Gryz: 3/10
Rika: 9/10
Demi: 7/10
Wren: 9/10
Raja: 7/10
Kyra Tierny: 6/10
Seth: DNR, I actually did a sidequest with Seth and leveled him. He obviously isnt meant to be leveled.
-
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 7/10. God I hate FFIX's ability system. Not so much for support abilities, but making even your primary action skills utterly dependent on game progress is just stupid. That they simultaneously decide to do the all or nothing approach, where you'll go two cities and four dungeons with the same useless abilities then get 4 all at once makes it even worse.
How does this relate to Zidane? Because you can steal goddamned new weapons from bosses with him and alleviate the problem somewhat. For that reason alone he's always worth a party slot. Beyond that, there's stages of the game where he's pretty solid (his trances are quite powerful midgame, in particular) but he's never really an offensive standout.
Cinna: DNR
Blank: DNR
Marcus: DNR
Vivi Ornitier: 5/10. Casts the spells that make the peoples fall downs.
Adelbert Steiner: 7/10. Well, despite the score I always use Vivi anyway. Which in turn means that Steiner's early offense is pretty good, with the magic sword thing. In turn, that means he's covered during his weaker parts of the game, since his abilities are backloaded.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10. My impression of FFIX was that you needed healers less as the game went on, probably something to do with "oh, right, support abilities are broken now". THat is to say, while you never don't need a healer, as the game goes on the healer needs to be less good at healing to suit your needs. So, the healer with better offense wins.
Freya Crescent: 5/10. Good at what she does, but really hurt by FFIX buff duration.
Quina Quen: 3/10. Too unreliable to really use.
Beatrix: DNR I guess. Unlike the thieves, she stands out in her appearance. but it's basically "Steiner catches up in levels while Beatrix shows off" so.
Eiko Carol: 6/10. See above. Does technically broken things as I understand it, but Dagger's offensive lead felt more valuable in the game as it exists.
Armarant Coral: 6/10. I never feel like using him when he joins, but the game gives you some nice Throw goodies so he's at least comparable to Zidane in overall offensive merit (that is, good for a part of the game even if not stellar in the end)
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 5/10. All that stuff Snow said, except I feel like it takes longer for him to come into his own.
Alys Bragwin: 6/10. Carries Chaz's corpse around on her back.
Hahn Mahlay: 4/10. I'm remembering 'healbot', mostly.
Rune Walsh: 6/10. Falls off as the game goes, but always well stocked in terms of offensive resources at least.
Gryz: 4/10. Warm body.
Rika: 7/10. Damned good. I do feel like her TP was limiting though, PSIV has relatively pricey healing.
Demi: 7/10. Holds her own in every category, introduces the awesome that is PSIV buffs, and has an ohshitohshit button. You need those in PSIV. All that said, leaves for some nasty bits of the game, holding her back some.
Wren: 9/10. All glory to the hypnociato.
Raja: 4/10. Healbot. The offensive potential is there but he himself felt a little too squishy to take advantage of it? I could be misremembering that part of the game.
Kyra Tierny: 6/10. She's... better than Rune in her way, same abundant resources but now with healing and PSIV buffs.
Seth: DNR.
-
Kongol: 1.2
Rose: 6.1
Meru: 6.1
Haschel: 6.1
Albert Serdio: 3.8
Dart: 3.4
Miranda: 2.3
Welltall(-2)/Xenogears: 6.9
Vierge: 5.4
Heimdall/Fenrir: 5.6
Brigandier/Andvari: 5.6
(El-)Stier: 3.7
(El-)Renmazuo: 6.6
Seibzehn: 6.1
Mega Chu-chu: 4.9
Crescens: 5.6
-
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5/10. I honestly waffle regarding how good Zidane is. He's never exactly impressive (replays have demonstrated this), but to be fair, he's also not terrible. Just that in the midst of things, Zidane's fairly average. Not as strong as Steiner, but gets better weaponry to make up for it. His skillset is largely worthless, but has a few moments where they have their uses. And while Steal the command itself blows, the items you can steal are pretty good at various portions of the game. Average probably works.
Cinna:
Blank:
Marcus: DNR these three. Skill-less thieves and non-memorable, sans Cinna for his suck and Marcus because of the short arc he gets.
Vivi Ornitier: 4.5/10. Mm...yeah. He's pure damage, but there's some cute set ups that let him do some healing/bizarre parasitic healing. MT is a plus, having lower HP isn't. He's little worse than average, but not terribly so.
Adelbert Steiner: 7/10. He feels like he's your best fighter of the group. Solid HP + equips makes him a good choice, and his Swd Mag is actually decent, although you need to stick Vivi into the party for it. Gets better at the end and has a bit of a mid-game slump plus practically gone for all of disc 2 (although this is the part where he's at his worst!)
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10. Would be the best character in the game, but she's held back from stupid plot triggers (early Disc 3 being the big one). The fact that as CK suggested that healing becomes less of a necessity (due to things like Auto-Haste/Regen) means she ends up better than Eiko as her damage is very easy to pump, is MT and can hit a variety of weaknesses too.
Freya Crescent: 6/10. Weakest on raw attack command damage, which hurts. Armor equips keeps her within the running and late-Dragon Crest pick up pumps her back up. Very easy to pump this as well so she's likely going to be your best damage dealer without investing too much time.
Quina Quen: 4/10. Eat is kinda annoying at points, but not terribly so. My main problem is just that Quina doesn't really have a use. Way too random and outside of Frog Drop, it doesn't have much else (gogogo FF9 status/buff duration). Frog Drop does let it beat AMARANT though.
Beatrix: DNR
Eiko Carol: 6.5/10. Your better healer of the two, but less damaging. For the most part, she's not that bad either due and putting her into the team can make healing duties easier + allows you to put Garnet on offense. Doesn't have the stupid Disc 3 start, but lower HP and needing to use your accessory slot to vary your summons is a no-go.
Armarant Coral: 3/10. Not terribly bad, but really, what IS the point here? Outside of Chakra (which is nice, but Ethers), the rest of his Flairs are pretty bad and Throwing requires you to spend quite a bit of money that physical twinking with Zidane/Steiner/Freya can do anyway.
-
Final Fantasy 9:
Just to start things off, I think FF9's balance is murdered by its damage cap at late game.
Zidane Tribal: 7/10
Stealing is incredibly good in this game, though it is time consuming. Thievery becomes a cheap damage cannon on normal playthroughs, and his physical is always very powerful. His only issues are poor defenses and one-dimensionality. Trance is boring but okay for damage.
Cinna: 1/10
Lawl
Blank:
4/10
You only have him for two or three battles, but he's okay in those
Marcus:
4/10
Noticeably weak, but he can steal a few things so he isn't totally without merit.
Vivi Ornitier:
3/10
This game has too much competition for him to shine. Spells become outdated far too quickly, and his status stuff is next to worthless. Doomsday gimmick setups take too much effort to set up in a game where you can hit buttons and things die. In general, his issue is that he has to pay MP to do the same amount of damage Steiner or Amarant can do without spending anything. He's not bad early on, but still feels like a liability.
Adelbert Steiner:
9/10
Jesus god Steiner is crazy. Even when he's been out of your party for half the game, he comes back doing the same damage (or more) than mages for free. Crazy defenses and nice gimmicks too (Blood Sword, Charge!, Minus Strike). The only thing that sucks about him is how his AP tends to fall behind, but he barely needs any abilities really. Trance is simple and effective. Yeah, I might be overrating him since he can't heal the party or restore MP or anything, but you have four party slots, so who cares? He's so physically powerful that he doesn't even need the big four sword skills (damage cap).
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros:
5/10
She's awesome if you feel like abusing the Summon animation/Auto-Regen trick, but I hate sitting through them personally. Might as well make things die with sharp objects for less time investment. Her healing is great, but not necessary after a point. The "Mute" period really hurts her, in my book.
Freya Crescent:
6/10
She's great for dealing 9999 easily, but her other skills are mainly useless gimmicky stuff. White Draw is okay in theory, I guess? You don't need it, and Amarant does it more effectively. Reis's Wind is okay until you get Auto-Regen.
Quina Quen:
7/10
Great filler character. Blue Magic rocks hardcore in this game, or at least some of it does. Level 5 Death is particularly nice, allowing Quina to solo a dungeon even. Matra Magic makes learning Blue Magic simple. Frog Drop is cool if you were doing all sidequests anyway (otherwise it isn't worth the time investment). Auto-Life/Limit Glove is powerful too. There are other good abilities, these are just the ones that stick out to me.
Beatrix:
7/10
Great temporary character, though she could have used better defenses. Kind of funny how Life is better than her Sword Skills in the battles where you have her.
Eiko Carol:
5/10
Good healer, but you really don't need one later on and her damage is pretty bad even when you get the most powerful spells. She's still about as good as Garnet.
Armarant Coral:
8/10
Great damage both with his physical and No Mercy/Throws, good support move in Chakra (I think there's another good one too). His Trance is awesome since most of his skills work a lot better mutitargeted. I tend to use him a lot after he joins.
Phantasy Star 4:
I have played this game, but it was so mediocre that I can't remember a darn thing about the characters. I think the cat girl was pretty good? No, I have nothing.
-
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 4/10. Reliant on stealing, synthing, and setting lots of random abilities and even that only pays off late. Meh.
Cinna: DNR.
Blank: DNR.
Marcus: 2.5/10. Okay as a warm body.
Vivi Ornitier: 3.5/10. I guess he has decent parts, but more often he stood out as not too damaging / very frail.
Adelbert Steiner: 6.5/10. Good early and late. Best fighter? Eh sure.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10. Having powerful healing off decent stats is about all you can ask for from this game. She'd be clear MVP if not for that bit early disc 3.
Freya Crescent: 5.5/10. White Draw was decent for keeping resources up at least.
Quina Quen: 6.5/10. Frog Drop is by far the easiest of the three to power up, White Wind is decent, Big Guard is OMG FF9 BUFF WORTH USING, and some of the status (Night in particular) is actually quite handy by FF9 standards.
Beatrix: Eh, whatever.
Eiko Carol: 6/10. Less damage and durability than Garnet, but nothing says you can't use both, and she doesn't have the fail period.
Armarant Coral: 4.5/10. Kinda bland, but hey, trance Aura is cool.
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 6/10. Works as a healbot at worst, and generally has the best damage for bosses. Kinda unimpressive otherwise, but eh.
Alys Bragwin: 7/10. Jeigan.
Hahn Mahlay: 3/10. Slow and frail and his in-battle skillset really isn't worth much at all.
Rune Walsh: 7/10. If only he had better speed he'd be totally broken in randoms. As is he's still one of, if not the best, there, and has good damage for bosses.
Gryz: 3.5/10. I'll give him half a point on Hahn because Crash is badass. It's also all he has.
Rika: 9/10. You don't beat the game without Saner. Plus the high speed + holy and lightning weapons hit weakness on everything that can't be IDed. And healing.
Demi: 6/10. Might have been amazing if she were around for more bosses, which are her forte due to Barrier and the MT revival/statushealer bailout skill of doom and destruction. In randoms, though, she's very much so-so (she hates physical resistance), though speed and durability keep her competent.
Wren: 8/10. Most of this is Barrier hype against things you really, really need it against. Otherwise, see Demi, trading Medic Power for more durability and those sexy MT guns.
Raja: 7/10. Damn good healbot, and a fairly obvious choice for the final party.
Kyra Tierny: 6/10. Healbot~
Seth: 4/10. One of his dungeons he is fairly good in due to Deathspell off decent stats, the other he is terrible in because it's all mechs who resist both death and darkness. 4 works as a balance. He'd be an awful boss fighter but that never comes up!
-
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5/10. He's okay. Thievery is not something that I am going to factor into his score though.
Cinna: DNR
Blank: DNR
Marcus: Abstain.
Vivi Ornitier: 4/10. Cute but he's really not great. Used him the whole game anyway.
Adelbert Steiner: Abstain. Really put no effort into using him.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 6.5/10. Loses points for the depression bit.
Freya Crescent: 5/10. Sure. I personally didn't like her all that much but she's not bad.
Quina Quen: 6/10. Mighty Guard and White Wind and FROG DROP IS AMAZING BECAUSE CATCHING FROGS IS FUUUNN~~~
Beatrix: DNR.
Eiko Carol: 7/10. Holy holy holy~
Armarant Coral: 5/10. Not really sure here, I liked him well enough.
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 5/10. He's not bad, but I feel like he lags a bit until the end of the game sometimes.
Alys Bragwin: 6/10. Boomerang! She serves her purpose.
Hahn Mahlay: 4/10. Healing.
Rune Walsh: 7/10. He's not bad, but I feel like he's a little slow and undurable for my tastes.
Gryz: 3/10. Bleh. I don't like you, ugly, almost skillsetless thing.
Rika: 8/10. She's quite good. Saner and MT healing and such, as well as Doubleslash and that MT Skill she uses. The healing is pretty limited and she will either be just okay against randoms or run out of charges in boss fights I found, which is why she is getting a lower score than other folks are giving her.
Demi: 7/10. A great, self-sufficient PC, but noot around as much and not quite as absurdly durable as Wren.
Wren: 9/10. All glory to the hypnociato! He just is really good at surviving even if the rest of your team is dead. He's not a very good team player because he can't be healed normally, but he needs healing way less often than anyone else and has like 15 charges of his own special healing. Takes care of himself at most points in the game. His damage isn't bad either, although at points it could use some work. MT normal physical is very awesome.
Raja: 7/10. Lifesaver in the final battle for realz.
Kyra Tierny: 6/10. Decent. Not too much to say here.
Seth: Abstain.
-
Zidane Tribal: 5/10. Offers practically nothing outside of Trance, but his Trance is probably the best in the cast. Useful against bosses, but generally useless outside of that - doesn't say much, since bosses are easily the hardest part of FFIX, but still not enough to be higher than a 5.
Cinna: DNR.
Blank: DNR.
Marcus: 2/10. Practically useless, if not for the fact that the second Waltz #3 fight would be near-impossible without him, even if it's just item spamming.
Vivi Ornitier: 5/10. Has an amazing early-game, but falls back into a much lower position - you might use him as the fourth character if you really like him and haven't trained up anyone else. (I still used him, though~)
Adelbert Steiner: 8/10. Steiner smash puny enemies? His damage is brutal and his durability allows him to tank through most anything. Completely single-trick though until right near the end, where his skills actually become worth using.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7.5/10. If it weren't for the depression section, she'd be bordering on 8.5/9. Eidolons are amazing, her Trance is evil, and White Magic is a godsend at times.
Freya Crescent: 4/10. Never seen a real use in Freya's skills - most of them are outclassed around the same time by other allies - and her damage is generally lower than most others'.
Quina Quen: 6/10. Good support character, and I never had trouble learning Blue Magic, but doesn't offer much outside of White Wind/Auto-Life/Mighty Guard - status is mostly useless and Frog Drop is late/post-game, at which point other characters can handle damage better and more efficiently. Is useless against bosses thanks to getting a Trance that only works well on randoms.
Beatrix: 8/10. Would be a solid 10 if not for temp status. She has amazing healing and godly damage. Durability would be a problem, but you don't fight anything with her that even threatens her durability since she's OHKOing mostly everything there. >_>
Eiko Carol: 6.5/10. Ehh. Generic healer status, for all that she's nowhere near as good as Garnet - worse durability and worse Eidolons means she doesn't have anywhere near as much use, and Doublecast on White Magic is almost pointless a lot of the time.
Amarant Coral: 6/10. Chakra's useful and Throw works well enough, and he's got decent damage outside of it. Adding elemental weaknesses works well alongside either Vivi or Garnet, but everything he does past that can be done by others. Still has enough variety to get a 6.
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5/10
Cinna: 2/10 - Warm body!
Blank: 3/10 - Technically transfers stats to another character but there's no real way to do anything about it.
Marcus: 4.5/10 - I like Marcus =-) Competent fighter for the time, can use the Blood Sword too irrc. Helpful to have another body around if you stop to train/build up Garnet and Steiner for a bit. Technically transfers stats to another character but I'm not going to take that into account much here (just a bit *flees* *^_^*)
Vivi Ornitier: 5/10 - Elements and Statusses =D
Adelbert Steiner: 6/10 - Smash, SmasH, SMASH! Oh wait where's my crowd control/I hit a damage cap =-(
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 6/10 - Never felt that her damage was that great outside of gem/ore twinking Ark aside and that comes late so yeah. Trance means she can't do anything else either because using something like healing reduces the trance bar too irrc reducing the time for repeat summons and thus overall damage.
Freya Crescent: 6.5/10 - Hnnn. Just feels better than Steiner in the long run, just as strong, can mostly equip the same stuff as well as female equips and has Reis's Wind/White Draw for variety. Also Jump twink hax! Which again I'm not factoring in too much here this time.
Quina Quen: 5/10
Beatrix: 5.5/10
Eiko Carol: 7/10 - Holy/Madeen + wind Fenrir + more reliable healer ftw. Most of the enemies in the game are weak to Wind or Holy including in the final dungeon/Hades. There are a lot of equips that boost holy damage too irrc. Double White is great especially with Holy and I've even seen use from Full Life/Full Life or Full Life/Curaga duos from just doing a quick story dash through the game (where enemies are actually competent relevant to levels!) Madeen's damage is connected to levels too irrc so if you are levelling it probably does more consistent damage than most of Garnet's summons outside of gem twinking/Ark. Also free Ribbon *^_^*
Armarant Coral: 4.5/10 -
-
Again, fighters pretty much amounted to being little more than warm bodies
Right...I'm just not seeing why that is.
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 8/10 - Success rate may be bad (Not as bad as people make out though) but so what? It snags great gear and thats what matters. Would you prefer it be like most games where the chances are good but bosses give you a potion or some other shit? Anyway he has a great trance that blows things away be them randoms or bosses and while he may have no skills really worth using what does it matter really? His basic physical will last you the whole game anyway so I don't know what everyone is complaining about.
Cinna: 1/10 - Faces only two bosses and both OHKO him. Can't get more pathetic then that.
Blank: 3/10 - Yeah he may be Zidane - but he does help you against the games first hard boss and that is worth something.
Marcus: 5/10 - Warmbody sure but he comes at moments where you actually need him. Steals a bunch of loot off Black Waltz 3 too.
Vivi Ornitier: 7/10 - Good early game and combos well with Steiner. The doomsday combo is also very useful as its basically full MT healing with damage to the enemy added on. It comes a bit late though.
Adelbert Steiner: 9/10 - Due to the Blood sword he can catch up in levels/AP in the escape bit easily. Just let Marcus die and then use the blood sword so the enemies can't kill you. Lacks screentime here and there but overall he is solid.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 8/10 - Healer with good damage. I don't like having to sit through those summons though.
Freya Crescent: 6/10 - The regen is worthless but there is nothing really outstanding about Freya besides she can avoid attacks with jump.
Quina Quen: 10/10 - Quina does nothing wrong and has it all. HP, status (Frost, Vanish, night, Level 5 Death and mustard bomb aren't worthless), the best buff in the game which is not too expensive because if you use it against every single random then you're an idiot, good party healing, party status healing and finally Quina has massive damage with Frog Drop. Also unlike the other characters Quina gets ALL the best stuff early.
Beatrix: 7/10 - Awesome but a temp.
Eiko Carol: 7/10 - Does a good enough job...I really don't care enough to say anything else about her.
Armarant Coral: 3/10 - Comes late and isn't that great to make him worthwhile to use. Its not to say he is a bad fighter, just outclassed somewhat.
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 6/10 - Not a fan and he gets good too damn late.
Alys Bragwin: 6/10 - Alright but not that great. MT sucks and everyone starts doing more damage then her after a short while.
Hahn Mahlay: 3/10 - Fucking horrible. You don't need his crappy healing much early on and if you get him at endgame for his healing then why not, you know get Raja the best healer in the game instead? Also he leaves for like 70% of the game to add to his many faults
Rune Walsh: 10/10 - Double shields laugh at things making him basically unkillable. His offence is fine and while it gets weaker what does it matter? You have a fucking unkillable bastard with you and who do you have to fill his slot anyway? Also owns Lassic hard.
Gryz: 2/10 - Moves are useless, damage and hp aren't as good as they should be. Taking him at endgame is the worst choice by far. Even Hahn has him beat.
Rika: 9/10 - I was going to say people rate her too highly but then I remembered she actually deserves the high scores. Damage, healing, speed and best of all the buffs are excellant.
Demi: 4/10 - She isn't bad but you have her for a shortish stretch and there is little point of taking her at endgame because you have Wren.
Wren: 7/10 - Barrier is an awesome buff and he will get it off because nothing in game can OHKO him hitting weakness or not, he just has too much HP too be killed. He is however deadweight against Lassic where he has to recover basically every turn to stay alive and that isn't cool as Lassic is the hardest boss in the game by far.
Raja: 7/10 Double shields save him quite a bit as he can't be taken out in a turn. He has no offence against randoms but he rips Dark force and the final boss apart as if I'm remembering correctly he has game best damage against them. The healing is also godlike and the reason you take him along. The final boss would actually be hard if you didn't have him with you.
Kyra Tierny: 5/10 - Alys + at a time you couldn't give a shit. Outclassed by Rune at damage and outclassed by Raja at healing. She isn't too bad regardless though and is the second best option when deciding who to take.
Seth: 7/10 - He has one dungeon because yeah you can take him along to a second if you wish but not only is he aweful there but you'd be wasting xp. In his one dungeon though he is pretty godlike as Deathspell hits really often and kills the big guys in one while Corrosion kills all the little guys also in one. Seth pretty much solos that dungeon.
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Right...I'm just not seeing why that is.
They're there, they hit things, they aren't even all that impressive at it outside of twinking, and they're interchangeable as heck for the most part. If you disagree, that's fine, as you have the right to your opinion.
It snags great gear and thats what matters. Would you prefer it be like most games where the chances are good but bosses give you a potion or some other shit?
Funny, I remember only being able to grab shit like potions and tents and such with it.
Snarking aside, I'd actually rather it have a success rate worth bothering with, rather than waste a dozen turns on a trash boss whose greatest threat is to my ability to successfully stay awake.
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 6.5/10
Cinna: 1/10
Blank: 2/10
Marcus: 2/10
Vivi Ornitier: 6/10
Adelbert Steiner: 5.5/10
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 8/10
Freya Crescent: 6/10
Quina Quen: 5/10
Beatrix: 7/10
Eiko Carol: 7.5/10
Armarant Coral: 5.5/10
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 6/10
Alys Bragwin: 5/10
Hahn Mahlay: 5/10
Rune Walsh: 6/10
Gryz: 4/10
Rika: 8/10
Demi: 7.5/10
Wren: 7.5/10
Raja: 7/10
Kyra Tierny: 6.5/10
Seth: 3/10
-
Just wanna note about Zidane's success rates on Steal:
With Bandit, he will never fail the "success vs. fail" check based on level. Mind you, FF9 has other ways you can "fail" and Bandit mostly just rules out one possibility.
The "Common" steal has 100% chance of success, but also lowest priority. In that the game checks all the rarer steals first, and you get the Common if all other 3 fail. So Zidane's first attempt is practically 100% from what I recall, regardless.
The 2nd slot is also pretty good odds; not insured, but doesn't take too long; I think its roughly 50%? yeah, still reasonable, and if you get the "Uncommon" slot on your first attempt (happens frequently, but not a given), then the 2nd steal WILL succeed as it'll just be the Common at worst.
The 3rd slot is where things get tricky, as this is where Fail rates start becoming noteworthy to the point of "Is the reward worth it?". The 4th Slot is "Forget about it, unless you have Master Thief", really (Master Thief raises the odds of the 3rd and 4th slot items notably.) Note the game has a flat success/fail rate based on what slot you're aiming for, so regardless of what you're using, it'll never be above that rate (Master Thief raises those odds of success.) Again, Bandit just rules out the Level Check or whatever, minimizing the # of checks needed for success, since one is already a given.
Its kind of like FF6's "Steal from a rare Slot with no Common" scenario, except with multiple slots in the mix.
Now, granted, the GOOD stuff you get from bosses is usually that 3rd Slot; rarely, its the 4th slot and that's when the game is just mocking you relentlessly.
I would like to note this too, since its tangentially related:
I'm seeing *A LOT* of Freya hype here based off Dragon Crest. The ONLY way she gets Dragon Crest, I believe, on Disc 3 is through Steal against Ark, and its *NOT* a common steal, via that Holy Lance. If you fail to get this, Freya can't get Holy Lance until Bran Bal.
Freya's Best weapon after Holy Lance on Disc 3, unless you do a lot of Chocoboing, is rather pathetic. Her Ultimate is also barely above Zidane's Orihalcon too, a weapon he can nab via stealing on Disc 3 (and IIRC, the boss has defensive style fighting poses giving you "free" opportunities to steal, since he's not taking enough damage to merit attacking. Contrast to Ark whose a genuine threat the entire fight.)
Basically...I can't buy Dragon Crest as a reason to hype Freya; its gotten for the latter half of Disc 3 only *AND* worth noting its not as easy to build as people are making it out to be. It takes 100 Dragons for 9999. Sounds cool and easy right? Means it must be easy to build!
Not until you remember that half way is only 1/4th the damage. As in, after 50 Dragons, its only 2500, and you shouldn't have problems doing that much damage Mid-Disc 3. And 50 Dragons REQUIRES Grinding; if you've ever tried Dragon Crest in game without actually hunting Dragons, you'd know that the move is absolutely pathetic.
Should also note that people hyping Freya as being a better physicaller than Zidane need to actually reference weapons; you'll note that Freya's only real win is during the Holy Lance phase (see above), and KIND of when she gets Partisan (25 vs. 24 on Zidane's The Ogre), and even then, Zidane's stat edge probably offsets it (I think this is still a point where Zidane's Spirit > His Strength, so the Spirit based Thief Weapons are actually beneficial to him here.) I guess if you really like Chocoboing, Dragon Hair can be gotten really early (as early as you have access to the Airship), though if that were the case, that pretty much solidifies you having Ultima Weapon for Zidane, and then he's kind of crushing Freya A LOT in the Final Dungeon.
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 7/10 - Steals a few really awesome things, easy to twink for solid consistent damage, and his Trances waste bosses.
Cinna: Abs.
Blank: Abs.
Marcus: Abs.
Vivi Ornitier: 4.5/10 - Has a few points in the game where he stands out, but not all that great otherwise.
Adelbert Steiner: 7.5/10 - Effortlessly crushes things. The crushing thing is all he does though, and he's not around quite enough.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10 - Loses a point, point and a half due to that one certain part. Your healer for the whole game otherwise, and easy to smash things with later on.
Freya Crescent: 3.5/10 - Well she has... White Draw. Reis' Wind isn't bad. Generally just... a total warm body though.
Quina Quen: 5/10 - It'd be closer to an 8 in most other FFs, only losing those points for inconsistency and having to hunt down the right enemies. As it stands... very, very rarely did I use status effects, and buffs never last long enough. Frog Drop is a redeeming factor if you're patient though, and the HP is nice.
Beatrix: DNR
Eiko Carol: 7/10 - The same as Garnet sounds about right - generally not terribly different, aside from Double Holy, doesn't have crappy portion, but not around as often.
Armarant Coral: 5.5/10 - Throws and Chakra are something.
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I did very little Chocobo Hot & Cold in FF9 and generally beat the snot out of enemies rather than try out some of the fancier skillset options, for reference. (Z/S/F/E final party.)
Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5/10. He was okay and did surprisingly decent damage for a thief type. And sure, you COULD get amazing stuff from Steal if you're patient, but damn does the implementation of Steal in FF9 fail. Oh well.
Cinna, Blank, Marcus: DNR.
Vivi Ornitier: 3/10. Too. Dang. Frail. Bad combo with Focus.
Adelbert Steiner: 7/10. For all his plot antihype... the man. Especially once he gets the "use MP to power up physicals" ability of broken. Pretty much a spam regular physical for huge damage guy.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10, but I'm not really holding the "Dagger can't concentrate!" part against her. IIRC you've got split teams where you're forced to use everyone, so the proper comparison is her vs. nothing.
Freya Crescent: 6/10. A Steiner clone but with some lag on jump early in the game. Still quite good.
Quina Quen: 3/10. Theoretical use I'm sure but I did not bother with Blue Magic in FF9.
Beatrix: DNR.
Eiko Carol: 7/10. But she's a better 7 than Garnet by endgame. I felt that Eiko's summons and skillset were definitely better, and became more so as the game went on. Full-Life is the obvious one, but Phoenix is also great, and Double White is a way more useful trance ability than Eidolon. It can save your butt vs. Necron with doubled Full-Lifes, or Full-Life and healing, or just plain Holy spam if nothing else needs doing. She does take awhile to get there, though, as early Disc 3 Eiko isn't quite as impressive, hence the same score as Garnet. Not that there's anything wrong with Garnet - I'd just use Garnet more as an attack mage who happens to be able to heal by Disc 4 (and poor Vivi warms the bench), while Eiko is your premier healer.
Armarant Coral: 4/10. Er. Nothing BAD about Amarant and less annoying to power up than Quina, but not statistically amazing, and generally competes with Zidane.
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Yeah I'm never quite sure what to do about FFIX. Take chocoboing/twinking into account, leave it out or go halfways. I settled for halfways this time.
I agree with you about Eiko Snowfire, I just feel that she's definitely the better White Mage and choice for bosses especially if you haven't been sidequesting where as pointed out non Holy Double White sees use too. With twinking fully taken into account it's harder to draw the line but again I'd probably give the edge to Eiko for bosses/Ozma due to holy weakness, Phoenix and Marcus abuse for stats (I believe high Spirit also effects the duration of buffs/healing in this game too though I could be wrong there) However Dagger is great for randoms with Atomos and Odin so yeah they're both really good =-) Eiko also has some fun stuff she can do I think midgame with Vivi + Black Magic + Carbuncle + Reflect Null too irrc.
Technically I think Quina's supposed to be the best character in the game though but she/he/it is FAQ bait for that? I dunno~
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5.5/10. I find it insulting that people are calling Steiner and Freya these PHYSICAL DAMAGE GODDESSES when Zidane is at many points better than Steiner, and as I showed, beats Freya at just about EVERY point in the game sans the small stretch with Holy Lance. No, "If you're behind on Synthing, she's better!" is not an argument, as everything Zidane gets that's synth related is storebought. Its not even a close match for a good deal of the game too. Granted, being FF9, he's replace-able endgame cause everyone functions similarly.
Cinna: DNR. Around too short to care.
Blank: DNR. Ditto!
Marcus: 4/10. Warm Body who exists so Steiner isn't your only damage dealer with Dagger. He's fine for that.
Vivi Ornitier: 5/10. There's stretches of the game where he dominates...and then stretches where he does similar damage to fighters but costs more MP, and has less HP, thereby worse by definition.
Adelbert Steiner: 5.5/10. His durability hype is a bit baffling cause outside of Tin ARmor which is late, the defensive differences in FF9 aren't big, and he's often underleveled due to not existing for the 2nd half of Disc 1 and most of Disc 2, so his HP isn't as high as it should be. He does good damage though. I will note that most of his skillset is shit. Charge! requires a team of near dead characters, and you need multiple Fighters for it to be worth something, Iai Strike never hits, Dark Side is usually weaker than MP Attack Physicals (MP Attack is 1.5x damage, Darkside is 1.4x, IIRC), Minus Strike will practically never be in a scenario where it beats his Physical. Not sure I can hype his late gotten stuff since it requires his high end weapons which means he's chugging out that level of damage with his physical anyway. Climhazzard being MT COULD have been good, but like FF3DS, most things late game are of the "Solo but Durable" style randoms.
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7/10. First off, lacking Full-life is a minor flaw; Concentrate + Life = 70% Resurrection, which is more than enough and it costs 1/3rd the MP as Full-life. Clearly better on Randoms due to variety of weaknesses she can hit (just about everything in the Final Dungeon is weak to Lightning *OR* Ice, meaning Shiva/Ramuh are hitting shit load of weaknesses for a modest MP cost), functions just as well on bosses, and better HP than Eiko, she's the better healer as a result.
Freya Crescent: 5/10. Worse than Zidane at everything for most of the game barring HP when she gets HP+10% (otherwise, he beats her), tries to make up for it with stuff like White Draw and Reis' Wind, but the latter doesn't last long enough, and MP issues in FF9 aren't as prevalent and White Draw's nature is random so its not something to rely on. Dragon Hair being gotten early is cool, except it'll last you for literally 2 dungeons before other characters get better stuff (Read: Ultima Weapon on Zidane); yes, its around for 3, but one of them is Ipsen's Castle, a dungeon where strong weapons are completely USELESS (Zidane beats Freya here anyway, as his weapons are weaker.) Dragon Crest is laughable hype cause it requires a good amount of grinding for an ability that'll barely outdamage what many other characters can do with little grinding, and its gotten late anyway. Not to mention Freya's got a good deal of availability issues against her (being absent for almost all of Disc 2 comes to mind)
Quina Quen: 3/10. Most of his/her skills are gimmicky and only see real use in LLGs. White Wind isn't quite enough healing, Limit Glove never really kicks in ever, Frog Drop requires actual time wasting to see use, stuff like Earthshake isn't quite strong enough...and on top of all that, s/he's a pain in the ass to use.
Beatrix: DNR. She kicks ass sure, but she's around for one moment that's too brief, and the other is tailored specifically so she kicks ass to help Steiner catch up in levels some, so yeah, no.
Eiko Carol: 6.5/10. Worse HP, slower, and less skills learned than Dagger hold her back. Her support spells are useless mind. Phoenix is cool, but not reliable, Reflect is quite possibly the most useless ability in the game; on enemies it SHOULD help against, they usually have AI set to just mock it outright (Kuja gets FLAT OUT BETTER if you cast Reflect) Oh, the Vivi Trick is kind of useless; yes, doubling Vivi's damage is good...except that it requires a turn to set up, that could have been used to do damage outright, which makes the set up kind of meaningless. Oh yeah, buffs don't nearly last long enough in this game, so using her as a buff character kind of sucks. THAT SAID...she's still good at what she does.
Armarant Coral: 5/10. Aura's cool for Auto-life, good damage on bosses, Chakra's not halfbad back up healing but otherwise he's a late joining PC with no real special factors.
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 7/10. Solid throughout the game, with a weak start and a strong finish...yeah, this works.
Alys Bragwin: 6/10. Starts off overpowered, but felt like that tapers off late, and even the MT Physical didn't do much. Buffs are cool, but Rika gets them halfway into Alys' time and uses them about as well anyway.
Hahn Mahlay: 3/10. Extra Healing Battery! Also good for the Tri-blaster combo! Yeah, that's about all he's good for.
Rune Walsh: 5/10. Good cannon and good tank early on when dual shields = lul damage. Thing is, lots of characters have offense, and other things like healing, something Rune kind of lacks.
Gryz: 3/10. INSTANT DEATH AND MT DAMAGE! ...wait...
Rika: 9/10. MVP? Yeah, definitely. 2 Buffs that you'll pretty much always use on bosses, your best healer whenever Raja isn't around, and good offense that doesn't even conflict with said healing, albeit, the offense is a bit lower than I'd like, but its adequate enough that it works. Oh yeah, she's fast too!
Demi: 4/10. Never really saw a point; she's Proto-Wren at first, then she rejoins, and...eh, Medica feels like it should be better than it is, lack of magic durability makes her an actual liability against PD, inability to be hit by Nasar offsets the Repair Kit argument, and she feels kind of worthless for randoms on the way there, due to lacking any form of decent RESERVE damage.
Wren: 7/10. Ok, that's more like it! Tanks like crazy, free MT damage is cool, kills mechs with Spark, tanks really well, keeps self alive when others cannot, is a tank, passable offense for bosses...did I mention he's also a tank?
Raja: 6/10. UNLIMITED HEALING!!! This is awesome, but availability + Potential durability woes and being slow making him worthless for random encounters hold him back some.
Kyra Tierny: 6.5/10. Almost as much healing as Raja, with actual speed and better durability! She's got more than enough in terms of battery power and brings along other things to round herself out, contrast to Raja whose more just "Overkill" in reserves with little else. Yes, Raja does more damage on Profound Darkness and better damage on randoms in the final dungeon, but Kyra can actually get turns on randoms so I'm not totally sold on Raja being better here.
Seth: DNR. Around for too brief a stint to rank.
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Doesn't state we need to provide reasons, so just ask if you want them added. 2 weeks behind yay.
Zidane Tribal: 6.9/10
Cinna: 0.1/10
Blank: 1.7/10
Marcus: 4.3/10
Vivi Ornitier: 5.1/10
Adelbert Steiner: 6.9/10
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 7.4/10
Freya Crescent: 6.9/10
Quina Quen: 8.5/10
Beatrix: 10/10
Eiko Carol: 6.1/10
Armarant Coral: 6.9/10
Chaz Ashley: 6.8/10
Alys Bragwin: 7.0/10
Hahn Mahlay: 4.8/10
Rune Walsh: 8/10
Gryz: 2.9/10
Rika: 8.7/10
Demi: 4.9/10
Wren: 8/10
Raja: 8.3/10
Kyra Tierny: 6.4/10
Seth: 7.5/10
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 6.5/10
Cinna: 1/10
Blank: 2/10
Marcus: 2/10
Vivi Ornitier: 6/10
Adelbert Steiner: 5.5/10
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 8/10
Freya Crescent: 6/10
Quina Quen: 5/10
Beatrix: 7/10
Eiko Carol: 7.5/10
Armarant Coral: 5.5/10
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 6/10
Alys Bragwin: 5/10
Hahn Mahlay: 5/10
Rune Walsh: 6/10
Gryz: 4/10
Rika: 8/10
Demi: 7.5/10
Wren: 7.5/10
Raja: 7/10
Kyra Tierny: 6.5/10
Seth: 3/10
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Final Fantasy 9:
All rankings within half a point of mine for fairly similar reasons! Guess that's not completely shocking, but FF 9 seems like it's getting a fairly wide variance for characters.
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Final Fantasy 9:
Zidane Tribal: 5.86
Cinna: N/A
Blank: N/A
Marcus: 3.16
Vivi Ornitier: 4.64
Adelbert Steiner: 6.63
Garnet "Dagger" Til Alexandros: 6.92
Freya Crescent: 5.47
Quina Quen: 5.08
Beatrix: N/A
Eiko Carol: 6.48
Armarant Coral: 4.88
Phantasy Star 4:
Chaz Ashley: 6.07
Alys Bragwin: 6.48
Hahn Mahlay: 3.94
Rune Walsh: 7.09
Gryz: 3.17
Rika: 8.52
Demi: 6.08
Wren: 7.91
Raja: 6.80
Kyra Tierny: 5.95
Seth: 4.90
Best Rating of this Session: Rika w/ 8.52
Worst Rating of this Session: Marcus w/ 3.16
Beatrix, Cinna and Blank all got DNR'd and thus booted! Worth noting that Seth VERY BARELY avoided being DNR'd. If he got one more DNR, or one of the raters changed to "Abstain", he would have been punted!
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
7. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
8. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
9. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
10. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
And now we start another large cast! This one we'll be getting through much faster than FE, and its much smaller cause its ONE GAME rather than 5, so it shouldn't be that overwhelming!
...that said...
Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv:
Yangus:
Jessica:
Angelo:
Charmles:
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge:
Pip:
Doc:
Starky:
Riddel:
Steena:
NOTE: "Lynx" is to be considered equivalent to Serge here; while I know there are differences (and he's technically Black) the nature of the character is basically just one character who undergoes a (temporary) gameplay shift rather than a genuine character change, so yeah. We are NOT rating Lynx separately from Serge, IOWs.
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Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: He's alright. Nothing too special until the Mastermune, but alright. 6.5/10
Pip: No. 1/10
Doc: eh CC filler. 3/10
Starky: Abstain, never used.
Riddel: Game best magic or something. 3/10
Steena: eh CC filler. 3/10
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8/10. Quite good.
Yangus: 4/10. He has his good points but really falls off as the game goes on.
Jessica: 8.5/10. Offensive powerhouse.
Angelo: 6/10. He... is pretty bad at points but Multiheal rocks.
Charmles: DNR. *smacks Meeple*
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8 - Always useful, has some good builds. Never breaks the game easily, but there's twinking potential with Call Team.
Yangus: 5 - Good early on, but tapers off quickly. Still, has his uses.
Jessica: 8.5 - Kinda broken, but not quite a 9.
Angelo: 6.5 - Would be a 7, but there are times when he feels like a liability.
Charmles: Abstain?
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 7 - Always available, always useful. Never misses out on power-ups, good Element Grid, and his techs are generally solid. Also, obvious choice for a Saints summoner, and Saints was always my fallback strategy for anything difficult in lategame CC. Has a unique weapon, so he's not edging out other PC options either. Also has double techs for people that liked to abuse those early on.
Pip: 2 - Point for innate color flexibility, but his stats are so bad and he glitches up if you're not careful.
Doc: 2 - Didn't really use him, and why would you when you have Serge for your white-innate when he's around? Redundant and his techs don't bring anything to the table.
Starky: 4 - Not entirely redundant since Serge is a Black-innate when you get him! That aside, he doesn't bring much to the table and his weapon-type overlaps with Norris', causing you to generally pick one or the other.
Riddel: 4 - A better option than Starky in my opinion, though the durability is frightening. Her element grid could have been bigger since she's so obviously designed to be a mage. Good techs for her purposes though.
Steena: 4 - Best stats for another White-innate, but she's such a late-joiner and Serge's return to being a white-innate makes her kinda redundant.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8/10
Solid overall, has lots of neat tricks and all of his builds are generally useful. He's a Dragon Quest hero.
Yangus: 6/10
Weakest link, although he carries you through the beginning of the game pretty handily. I like having him as the lead character so he soaks up a bit more damage, and he's ok at that. Executioner is great for grinding.
Jessica: 8/10
Late-game damage cannon. Durability hurts her some early on, but it's never too huge of an issue. Getting the best whip is a whore and a half.
Angelo: 7/10
Slightly more useful than Yangus since he has great healing/support magic. Bows are fun, and Sarcastic Snigger makes the pirate boss pretty painless. He gets some other shut-down spells too. Good character, reminds me of Billy Black in Xenogears.
Charmles: 1/10
Lawl
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 10/10
Not sure what game you guys are playing, but Serge godstomps the entire game for me, and you're forced to use him so it's very noticeable. Mastermune is icing on the cake. I could be thrown off by the fact that CC is so darn easy, but yeah. Kills things dead.
Pip: 3/10
Too gimmicky to bother with, but you can use pretty much anyone anyway.
Doc: Never used him
Starky: 7/10
He's good, but overshadowed by Serge later on. Automatic access to the Plasma Gun or whatever makes him very powerful for a short stretch of the game.
Riddel: Only used her against Dario, can't remember why
Steena: Who dat
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 9/10 - Don't know why people always downplay Call team. You can have team golom around half way through the game and Mazan demolishes everything, including bosses for a long time.
Yangus: 6/10 - He hits stuff and thats all he does. Helm breaker is a good skill but beyond that meh.
Jessica: 9/10 - Twin dragon whip is one hell of an awesome attack that lasts the whole game. Her magic felt somewhat unneeded for most of the game due to it.
Angelo: 9/10 - Healing and revival, especially MT healing are godsends. His damage isn't too bad either.
Charmles: 1/10 - Hey he doesn't take a slot so that 1 damage he does is an extra 1 damage you wouldn't have done without him. That 1 damage might be the boost you need to kill the lizard.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8.5/10. Boomerangs, various options, good healing, Call Team. Yeah, solid.
Yangus: 4/10. He was a liability even early for me. Just... not good.
Jessica: 8.5/10. Fast mage with physical damage? Sign me up.
Angelo: 6/10. Durability issues, slow start.
Charmles: 0/10. No, sorry, not giving him even the dignity of a 1.
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8/10. Feels like one of the few cast standouts? Granted, the cast's generic, so.
Pip: 1/10 - GLITCHY FUN TIMES WOO no
Doc: 2/10 - WOO DOC
Starky: 5/10 - Averagish alien.
Riddel: 5/10 - Mage that fails to impress so much. On the other hand her crappy durability does get missed by the bosses, I forgot that.
Steena: 2.5/10 - Availability bites.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv:- 9/10. Can get Omniheal stupidly early and has Call Team.
Yangus: 4/10. Generally bad, but he at least has a solid beginning.
Jessica: 8/10. TDL is nice.
Angelo: 4.5/10. Sucks until late, sadly. Buffs aren't nearly as powerful as they were in older games, which is definitely a point against him.
Charmles: DNR. Is not a PC.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 9/10. Yeah, Guv does just about everything and does it well. And that's before Call Team. Considering giving him a 10 but balking at it for reasons I can't quite put into words.
Yangus: 4/10. Definately the LVP of the cast, though he's got his uses. Considering how DQ8 boss hp can get, having someone who just chips in with some extra slugging power every round, even if it's not quite what the others can pull off, is useful.
Jessica: 8/10. Durability woes and a lack of healing keep her from being Guv's equal in my eyes. Still quite good.
Angelo: 7/10. Was the lategame MVP for me, because I'm paranoid about wasting resources in long dungeons, and at that point he'd regen 10mp per shot with Seraph Shot, which is enough to power Multiheal, which was enough to keep my team chugging along at near full health always. Takes forever to get good, though, so he doesn't get the same score as Jess who's good for a much longer period.
Charmles: DNR/10.
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8/10. Highest I can give any CC character, really. If his 7th level tech was worth anything, he might make a nine, but as is, he falls just short. Still splatters everything, especially after getting the mastermune. Serge is a beast.
Pip: 4/10. Points for having potential to be interesting. Loss of points for being a pain in the ass to see that potential. Evens out to a below average PC.
Doc: 4/10. Eh, CC scrub.
Starky: 4/10. Eh, CC scrub.
Riddel: 6/10. The mage potential is there, and I'll give her credit for it.
Steena: 5/10. Feels better then Doc and Starky, so a 5 it is.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King
Guv: 7/10. Boomerangs, Omniheal, transit magic, good ST damage later on, eventually Gigagash? Not really broken but certainly very solid.
Yangus: 3/10. Has HP and damage early, but eventually that just becomes HP. Definitely LVP, but hey, actions are valuable, he can still beat the Timbrel of Tension every round in the aftergame.
Jessica: 8/10. Definite MVP. Best damage, can use MT magic, even has some healing and Kazing late. Accelerate (& sometimes Insulate) is mandatory in a lot of battles as usual.
Angelo: 6/10. Ah if only he had more skill points. Still, even though he's not great by DQ series standards, he doesn't have to compete against them, and he's still pretty darn necessary in-game. You take what healers you can get, especially since Guv's Omniheal is kinda MP intensive and Jess's Caduceus is ST. Has random utility use too.
Charmles: DNR
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8/10 sure beats stuff up but is one of the best characters at doing so.
Scrubs: 3/10 didn't seem too interesting or memorable and didn't mess with them much, exception of course being Riddel for the damn Dario battle where she dies constantly.
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Guv: 9/10
Yangus: 5.9/10
Jessica: 9.3/10
Angelo: 8.7/10
Charmles: 0.1/10
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 9/10
Pip: 4.4/10
Doc: 5.1/10
Starky: 6/10
Riddel: 6.8/10
Steena: 5.1/10
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8/10. Versatile. Wants a bit more speed though.
Yangus: 3.5/10. Pretty good early but it doesn't last, takes over the titles of worst damage and worst speed quickly enough.
Jessica: 8.5/10. Fast/has all types of offence/you need Accel.
Angelo: 6.5/10. Only really good for a short stretch midgame where he has Multiheal and Omniheal is either not yet gotten/too expensive. But he's damn good then.
Charmles: DNR
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 7.5/10. He's terrific after Mastermune, but merely decent before then. Still, good enough for CC MVP hype. CC is a cookie-cutter game that does not deserve scores above 7.5, however.
Pip: 3/10. I want to give him a 1 but he has potential.
Doc: 2/10. Stats really failed to impress.
Starky: 3.5/10. Same here, but they're better at least.
Riddel: 6/10. Game-best mage, and that does mean something. Almost no bosses after she joins hit pdef so I never had any problems with her on-paper durability (mdur is fine).
Steena: 6/10. Pretty much a Serge clone without the Mastermune. This is quite workable, and there's nothing wrong at all with doubling up on elements due to how it affects the field.
EDIT: Actually, extending that rant a bit, mostly to Djinn. You say that white PCs are better when Lynx is around, I say this is totally false, due to how the CC field works. Having both Lynx and a white PC means both are crippling each other's special attacks. Additionally, most of the best bosses you face when you have Lynx (Garai, Miguel, Sky Dragon) are white, so using a white PC is helping out the boss unless you just have them toss non-white healing spells around.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8
Yangus: 6
Jessica: 8
Angelo: 8
Charmles: LOL (DNR)
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 10 Yeah, best character in the game. Except Harle, but she doesnt count.
Pip: 5- glitchy, but he can get massive amounts of slots with a glitch!
Doc: 3- Meh, at least his final tech is nice
Starky: 7- Best not Serge white
Riddel: 7- Game best magic stat
Steena: 5- average
-
EDIT: Actually, extending that rant a bit, mostly to Djinn. You say that white PCs are better when Lynx is around, I say this is totally false, due to how the CC field works. Having both Lynx and a white PC means both are crippling each other's special attacks. Additionally, most of the best bosses you face when you have Lynx (Garai, Miguel, Sky Dragon) are white, so using a white PC is helping out the boss unless you just have them toss non-white healing spells around.
I used White-innates against them because they tended to use MT White damage that KO'd Lynx and sometimes KO'd whoever else I had. White-innates were the only ones who tended to survive, thus making them useful. Starky and Steena get my hype for having decent physical stats, so they get some damage in before firing off some healing/revival.
Also, Randoms exist and it always felt like a good idea not to double up on innate colors so you could hit more weaknesses. Though I can see how having 3 White-innates dominating the field could work too. Just seemed like a bad strategy since you'd inevitably run into a troublesome White- or Black-innate group of randoms.
-
Randoms may as well not exist in CC. >_>
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 7/10. I like Zap as a relatively neutral crowd control, and Omniheal is great, but costly, and he never really feels dominant.
Yangus: 4/10. Just doesn't bring much to the party aside from HP. But hey, survivability is something, so not actively bad.
Jessica: 7/10. MP for days. I raised her as a mage (a mistake) so didn't see how whips really do, but still solid. Rando-charm is awesome in a handful of fights too (lookin' at you, Captain Crow!)
Angelo: 6/10. Multiheal is much more practical than Omniheal, but there's a point where it's just not enough which is sadly not THAT long after you get it.
Charmles: Bad Meeple. No cookie.
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8/10. Solid early, dominant late. Yeah, feels right.
Pip: 2/10.
Doc: 2/10.
Starky: 4/10. He joins at a point where you really DON'T have a bunch of better characters. Early Lynx is suck.
Riddel: 5/10. I question the viability of a pure mage in CC, due to how building up elements works. Still, it's a niche, that's something.
Steena: 4/10. I remember not really being impressed with her offensive stats, and having to get two techs via sidequest is annoying.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8/10. Textbook example of a well rounded main.
Yangus: 4/10. Textbook example of "Exists purely to fill that 4th slot as a warm body"
Jessica: 8/10. Textbook example of an effective offensive specialist!
Angelo: 6/10. ...crap, not really a textbook example of anything! Just a decent healer, who does a bunch of secondary roles, and not much else.
Charmles: DNR. I confess; I added him on purely to hopefully invoke humor cause people were whining about using CC this round.
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8/10. CC is not a game where I can give someone realistically higher than an 8, I feel, due to its nature. That said, Serge is probably MVP, being solid throughout the game, and downright awesome post-Mastermune section (which can be gotten fairly early), and never having any sort of noteworthy weaknesses.
Pip: 3/10. Gimmicky, but not worth it, and clearly rather weak initially.
Doc: 4/10. Not bad, but nothing special; this is Chrono Cross, so that's worse than it sounds given the cast to party size ratio though.
Starky: 4/10. See Doc. I'd give him points for that early Plasma Gun, which is a damn good weapon for the time, except Norris can use it too, and Norris is overall better, so yeah.
Riddel: 6/10. Strongest Mage has to count for something. Didn't she also have an Element Restoration ability, which makes her have more ammo on big spells compared to other Mages?
Steena: 5/10. Serge like build, but gotten late, so...eh.
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Dragon Quest 8:
Guv: 8/10. Has good healing, single target damage and multi target damage. Also has Call Team to get out of tough random encounters at small cost. He won't be good at all available roles until maybe the end though and is slower than he wants to be. Also, while he has both power and flexibility, I never felt that he wrecks the challenge.
Yangus: 5/10. Good early on when there's almost no challenge and as the game goes on, everything he can do the other characters does better, except soaking up damage that is. He's also very slow. Still, I don't think he's that bad really, rather I think the other DQ 8 characters are rather powerful.
Jessica: 8/10. Great damage and Accelerate is very useful for almost no investment. She's rather frail though and tends to die if she's unlucky with enemy targeting.
Angelo: 7/10. Has good healing and can relatively easy replenish MP. Can also get decent damage. It takes time for him to get both an MP recover skill and decent damage though.
Charmles: DNR.
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 7/10
Yangus: 5/10
Jessica: 8/10
Angelo: 6.5/10
Charmles:?
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8/10
Pip: 4/10
Doc: 4.5/10
Starky: 6/10
Riddel: 7/10
Steena: 6/10
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Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King:
Guv: 8.10
Yangus: 4.63
Jessica: 8.22
Angelo: 6.71
Charmles: N/A
Chrono Cross White Innates:
Serge: 8.17
Pip: 2.95
Doc: 3.17
Starky: 5.05
Riddel: 5.48
Steena: 4.56
Best Rating of this session: Jessica w/ 8.22
Worst Rating of this session: Pip w/ 2.95
Charmles gets THE BOOT and DNR'd, etc.
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
7. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
8. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
9. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
10. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
Moving on, with a game I pulled completely out of my ass and MORE CHRONO CROSS!
Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchest:
Lilka Eleniak:
Brad Evans:
Tim Rhymeless:
Kanon:
Anastasia Valeria:
Lucied:
Marivel Armitage:
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid:
Greco:
Macha:
Zappa:
Orcha:
Miki:
Janice:
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT WEAPON!!!
Bonus Rounds do *NOT* get applied to the overall rankings since...well...we're not ranking characters! They're just something extra to add on the side for discussion or whatever. So even if something scores 10/10, its not gonna get on the Top 10 List!
That said, cause I hate some of you...
Devil May Cry:
Force Edge:
Alastor:
Ifrit:
Sparda:
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns):
Shotgun:
Grenade Gun:
Needle Gun:
Nightmare-Beta:
NOTE: Yes, I didn't put Yamato on here, but that's cause its Replay Only *AND* its identical to another weapon anyway evidently (that being Alastor).
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchest: Eh, pretty pointless all things considered. He has uh Multiblast for randoms!! *presses cancel button*. Okay enough I guess. 5/10
Lilka Eleniak: Eh she gets decent damage on most disc 1 bosses through weakness hitting and is the second best at summoning things I guess. 6/10
Brad Evans: Has Lock-On for bosses. 6/10
Tim Rhymeless: Sort of a pain to get his skills but hey they're useful and he lets you summon shit. 5/10
Kanon: Why bother? 3/10
Anastasia Valeria: DNR, available for next to no time
Lucied: DNR, available for next to no time
Marivel Armitage: Why bother? 2/10
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: Unimpressive aside from the stamina recovery and has poor availability 2.5/10
Greco: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Macha: Eh CC filler. I remember looking at her stuff and thinking her to be more solid than most but just... total lack of caring. 3.5/10
Zappa: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Orcha: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Miki: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Janice: Might as well not exist. 0/10
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchester: 5/10. I found him pretty bad but I'll give him some credit for Full Clip.
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10. Has healing and Quick, and the best stats for summon-blitzing randoms (only really relevant late, granted). If her MT healing weren't tied to berries she'd be better.
Brad Evans: 7.5/10. Kinda ho hum in randoms, but Railgun is death to bosses and the HP helps against them too.
Tim Rhymeless: 6/10. First Aid is this good.
Kanon: 6.5/10. Speed is nice, and she has a mini-railgun of her own if you get all her abilities, though dunno how easy that is.
Anastasia Valeria: DNR
Lucied: DNR
Marivel Armitage: 2.5/10. Blue mage types really need to show up earlier.
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 6.5/10. Fast and accurate.
Greco: 2.5/10. Remember him sucking.
Macha: 4/10. She had an okay stat build.
Zappa: 3/10. Another slow dude who can only really do physicals and isn't that amazing at them.
Orcha: 5.5/10. Good overall stats in places I cared about.
Miki: 6/10. Solid fighter-mage.
Janice: 1/10. lulz.
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT WEAPON!!!
Devil May Cry:
Force Edge: You get Alastor in what, mission 2? And it's purely superior. 1.5/10 I guess.
Alastor: 7.5/10. Versatile, nice range on it, good for a variety of situations.
Ifrit: 7/10. Turns on switches fast and unloads good damage/stun on certain enemies.
Sparda: Abstain. Like Force Edge you don't use it for long enough to care, unlike Force Edge it's a case of just not having it.
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns): 8/10. Allow great mobility so you can wear down anything while concentrating on dodging. Not really so impressive against randoms though due to minimal stunning.
Shotgun: 3/10. Meh.
Grenade Gun: 7/10. Totally owns a certain type of random.
Needle Gun: 5/10. Neutral score, it's your only option for underwater.
Nightmare-Beta: Abstain, didn't really try to use it.
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchester: 5.5/10
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10
Brad Evans: 8/10
Tim Rhymeless: 4/10
Kanon: 7/10
Anastasia Valeria: DNR
Lucied: DNR
Marivel Armitage: 2/10
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 6/10
Greco: 3/10
Macha: 3/10
Zappa: -
Orcha: -
Miki: -
Janice: -
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
I'm replaying this since it's been so long since I last played it and I barely remember anything about it, so maybe I'll come back to this. All I can say at this point is that I'm somewhat surprised that Ashley doesn't get some hype for Knight Blazer against bosses, since that's how I've been defeating 90% of them at the point I'm at so far.
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 6/10 - Probably the best stats for a Red Innate. Stealing is a niche, but the poor availability holds her back.
Greco: 2/10 - Die in a fire.
Macha: 3/10 - Not very good and splitpath.
Zappa: 3.5/10 - Solid physicals is a niche. Magic was better than it looked I remember.
Orcha: 3.5/10 - Like Zappa, but better magic. Still not worth an extra half-point.
Miki: 6/10 - Best non-Kid Red Innate, so she was my Red Innate of choice during Lynx sequences. Not a huge factor, but I remember that her and Nikki's dual tech was fairly useful when you got all your characters back.
Janice: 2/10 - Not bad, but obscurity~
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I definitely remember having issues with Knight Blazer, but it's been way too long since I've played it to say what.
-
KnightBlazer requires 100 FP to use and you have to start building up FP from the bottom again. You're better off hitting them with ARMs and elemental weaknesses (when they exist) pretty much all the time. Also token lolvastmajorityofWA2bosses goes here.
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Ashley at 100 FP gets Knightblazer, which is basically a damage buff. You waste a turn on it, of course.
Brad at 100 FP gets Boost Railgun, which does insane damage which, combined with any decent offence beforehand, kills all but a few bosses in the game.
It's pretty clear which one deserves more hype.
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchester: 7/10. Knight Blazer, ARMs and Full Clip around decent stats. Does what he needs to well enough.
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10. Versatile caster despite some HP woes. Getting her early to max out HP Plus remedies this problem.
Brad Evans: 8/10. Hits hard, tons of HP and Boost-Railgun can blow up mountains. Can also solo the superbosses if you feel cheap and cheeky.
Tim Rhymeless: 2/10. Fragile, skill set is a hassle to get.
Kanon: 4/10. Fast and can hit hard but doesn't crack the top three.
Anastasia Valeria: 10/10. Really, really good. Impulse is good to outstanding damage with a bit of coordination, has healing and some buffs and a couple of other tricks. I've used her in the full game before and she's insanely good. Practically she should be a DNR, though.
Lucied: 4/10/DNR. See Anastasia without any redeeming points.
Marivel Armitage: 2/10. Red Mage, but you get her too late and not having HP Plus for the first 35ish levels hurts like hell.
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchest: 7/10. Eh, I got use out of Knightblazer. It's still only useful if you're taking out boss support targets, and Ashley's sorta just okay otherwise.
Lilka Eleniak: 6/10. WA2 isn't a game that demands much healing, but she's still pretty okay otherwise.
Brad Evans: 7/10. Rarr.
Tim Rhymeless: 4/10. First Aid has use. Nothing else recommends him.
Kanon: 6/10. Solid offense off some speed, but still nothing special.
Anastasia Valeria: DNR I guess.
Lucied: DNR
Marivel Armitage: 3/10. Pointless. A blue mage really needs to join earlier than this. That said, an extra warm body for Kuiper is worth a point I suppose.
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 5/10. Probably the best Red, but... availability issues, plus reds aren't that good. (Blue's are almost all better, mostly.)
Greco: 3/10. Pretty pointless.
Macha: 4/10. Definitely usable when you first get her, although if you also picked up Leena it's only for about five minutes until Glenn joins too.
Zappa: 3/10. I actually like the stat build (as alluded to earlier, I'd take a pure physical over a pure mage character in this game) but arrggghhh low Agl.
Orcha: 4/10. Red with real healing is a nice trick. Joins too late to care about though, at least as I recall.
Miki: 4/10. Stats could be worse.
Janice: 2/10. Like this.
Devil May Cry:
Force Edge: 1/10. Makes stage 1 harder than it should be.
Alastor: 7/10. Bread and butter. Also, I love Air Hike.
Ifrit: 6/10. Which also means I basically never use Ifrit. Still, having watched the LP I know it's a great weapon used properly >.>
Sparda: 3/10. Novelty. I'm not giving up Trigger for a powerful sword, thanks.
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns): 7/10. Hover good.
Shotgun: 5/10. Situational.
Grenade Gun: 4/10. Having not discovered roll-cancelling, it was just too slow to use much.
Needle Gun: DNR. You can't use any other weapon at this time, so. (1/10. Fuck this can't kill those lizards in less than infinite time)
Nightmare-Beta: 2/10. Novelty. I'm not giving up trigger for a gun that doesn't hit anything >.>
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchest: 5/10 Most bosses can be killed before you get enough FP for Access, also has the unique problem of having people join with their level equal to his, which means it's practically better to kill him off in half the boss fights so people like Tim can get more benefit from HP UP. Gains a point back for endgame full clip rape.
Lilka Eleniak: 8/10 Can solo the game
Brad Evans: 6/10 hit's stuff, Rail gun being crap on ammo hurts, also leaves for a brief stint and forces you to use Tim vs KANON, loses a point for this.
Tim Rhymeless: 2/10 First aid hype is stupid, any boss that warrants mt healing means Lilka will be having plenty of fp for mystic, also get's one shotted by WA2 bosses.
Kanon: 6/10 unlimited resources for physical skills is cool, also /fanboi.
Anastasia Valeria: abstain
Lucied: abstain
Marivel Armitage: 3/10 meh
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchester: 5/10. He starts out okay...decent enough speed and damage. As the game progresses, he just starts trailing too far behind in damage to be useful. Full Clip is pretty solid as an option though yeah, but the FP required is still pretty high. Multi-blast is worth mentioning for the occassional red !s, but its not like it matters if you give them turns anyway >_> <_<.
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10. Pretty good. Healing + support options and some semblance of damage at various points. Needed either more of that or MT healing though to be better.
Brad Evans: 7.5/10. Tons of HP, Lock On costing only 25 FP and dealing pretty good damage all throughout as well as Railgun to absoloutely rape bosses probably lets him edge out Lilka. His only fault is the speed, which thanks to WA2 enemies sucking is also relatively trivial >_>.
Tim Rhymeless: 5/10. Outside of the time where you fight Kanon, Tim's durability isn't that terrible. First Aid however, is quite good because healing the entire party without consuming 25 FP means you are free to spam it and since WA2 enemies are WA2 enemies (meaning they break a 4HKO if they are lucky), you can get away with it pretty badly.
Kanon: 6/10. A variation on Ashely, trading in more speed for an offset in durability. Her skills don't use resources, but you have to use them enough times to make her stronger, which sometimes isn't all that helpful. Still solid though.
Anastasia Valeria: DNR
Lucied: DNR
Marivel Armitage: 2/10. Joins too late and requires too much effort to make good. What CK said though - a nice warm body for the last stretches of the game
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 6/10. Good stamina recovery + decent enough on stats. She needed to exist for more than 1/3 of the game, which is a problem.
Greco: 2/10. His only use if I recall correctly was to sub in as a red if you decided not to save Kid. And even then, he's pretty unimpressive.
Macha: 4/10. Decent enough on stats anyway
Zappa: 3/10. Eh. Stamina recovery is too low (8? REALLY?) and its not like he hits like Raquel level damage. Terrible as a mage, so he's unimpressive overall.
Orcha: 5/10. Solid, but not enough to break average. Red with healing as a bonus.
Miki: 6/10. Good fighter-mage build, yeah.
Janice: 1/10. No.
Djinn - Knightblazer doesn't get hype around here, because it is terribly FP inefficient. You have to save 100 FP, and then afterwards, you have to restart building FP from scratch. Even though WA2's FP gain rates are high enough that you can consider using Knightblazer often, it's often just better to stick with his ARMs/Full Clip as damage options, and Full Clip appears mid-late game too. Similarily, the time it takes Ashley to build 100 FP and then build more FP to use better attacks in KnightBlazer, Brad would've gotten at least 4 Lock-Ons (assuming even distribution of FP here) or used a Boosted Rail Gun which as noted, already tends to rape bosses enough as is.
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Kid: 8/10
Greco: 5/10
Macha: 7/10 actually has great stats
Zappa: 3/10 actually staticstically the worst red
Orcha: 3/10 see zappa
Miki: 7/10 Solid Red mage.
Janice: 7/10 Shes actually pretty good. Especially if you are too lazy to summon as she gets a free prism weapon. I use her alot and she does really well
CC is too easy people shouldnt be getting 1's. 1 means unusable to me, anyone can be used to beat CC. Even Pierre and Pip.
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Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchester: 6.5/10. Accellerator + GT/MT ARMs tends to be his selling point for most of the game, as it insures he goes first and takes down a good number of enemies, while keeping flexibility on Mediums. Thing is, before Fullcip, that's really all he has; bosses don't live long enough for Knightblazer (Kuprier Core aside), and he's statistically nothing special. He's pretty good after you get Fullclip, heck I'd say he's flat out better than Brad offensively, but that's only worth half a point cause of how late it is.
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10. Fast Healer with some good support skills, but the way WA2 works, this doesn't go as far as it should.
Brad Evans: 8/10. Best Tank by a long shot due to HP being everything, Speed Mediums *CAN* offset his low speed making him good enough at randoms, Lock On is awesome, and Rail Gun (especially with Boost) murders bosses dead.
Tim Rhymeless: 5.5/10. First Aid is cool at first, but doesn't last, and his summons are pretty damn brutal! The HP and Speed Combo hurt him though.
Kanon: 7/10. Good speed and damage for randoms, and enough for bosses, but I dunno, she doesn't feel like she deserves higher if that makes sense?
Anastasia Valeria: DNR. First off, she's not really THAT overpowered considering that not only enemies suck, she's not exactly BEST AT EVERYTHING, seeing as Ashley clearly beats her at crowd control if nothing else, so 10/10 hype is just absolutely baffling. But branching from that, more importantly, the dungeon she's in is so trivial, and she's with for such a laughable amount of time, I can't realistically rate her. I'd be more comfortable giving Sword Saint Ashley a rating cause the fight he's in matters a lot more than anything Anastasia is in (especially since its possible to completely AVOID getting into a single fight with Ana.)
Lucied: DNR. See Ana, except people don't respect him (and rightfully so!) so I don't need a side rant <.<
Marivel Armitage: 2/10. I know Gella Crazy can be twinked, but that's about all she has, and is otherwise a warm body for the Kuprier Core, so Ashley has 2 allies instead of 1.
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 6/10. Red Pin is good, good stamina recovery, and Pilfer can net you some nice things. However, she felt a bit unimpressive outside of all that.
Greco: 3.5/10. Workable filler, I guess, though below average at being it, and being Chrono Cross, that means more.
Macha: 6/10. Surprisingly solid, IIRC. You typically don't realize this cause many don't use her, but she's still decent.
Zappa: 4/10. While slow, I remember him packing a punch, especially since he can get some strong, semi-unique weapons (I think only Funguy shares it with him?) early, and to be honest, CC Speed isn't as big as people make it out to be due to how the system works.
Orcha: 4/10. Filler.
Miki: Abstain. Never really used, thinking on it.
Janice: 3/10. Pain in the ass to get with no real bonuses. No, her unique weapon means nothing since you can de-synth that into something more useful like a Spectral Axe or something, as in, a weapon some OTHER character may use.
As a side note, I did forget a character, namely Draggy *HOWEVER*, do NOT write him in. I'll just put him in the next set of ratings alongside whatever color I decide to do, as a Forgotten Warrior or something. Its easier to just do it this way, so just hold off on writing him in.
BONUS ROUND!
Devil May Cry:
Force Edge: 1/10. Its really good when its your only sword! Which lasts...for Mission 1 and then like the beginning of Mission 2...which is not even 10% of the game I wanna say. Yeah, basically just a placeholder until you get...
Alastor: 8/10. This. The DMC Sword is always a really good weapon, since its versatile, easy to use, and generally lacking in flaws, with moves like Stinger and what not. Add in Vortex and Air Raid, combined with increased speed in DT, and Alastor is probably the overall best sword in the series.
Ifrit: 7/10. A serviceable alternative to Alastor which covers different niches and is good at what it does. Generally, Alastor tends to work better as a "Default" weapon with better fall back options overall, but Ifrit is still a very good weapon in its own right.
Sparda: 4/10. Fun gimmick weapon but not much else; I don't give it bonus points for the Final Boss, mostly cause the game doesn't even let you change weapons there.
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns): 7/10. Nice safe rapid Fire weapon, with good charge shots, becomes pretty brutal in DT, what have you. Damage is a bit lacking, and when not charged/DTed, it fails at tying up enemies...unless you juggle enemies with it of course!
Shotgun: 5/10. Good for tying up a few enemies like Fetishes when used properly, and can one hit kill Blades! Thing is, all of this needs to be done at close range, and while good at tying things up, I tend to just question why not use...
Grenade Gun: 7.5/10. This. Great for building up DT, hits damn hard on randoms, canceling allows you to tie up enemies well, let alone in large groups (AHAHAHA take that army of Blades and Marionettes!), and got really good range too! Works well to compliment E&I.
Needle Gun: DNR. Pure underwater weapon makes it not realistically comparable to the others.
Nightmare-Beta: 1/10. So to use this, you need to charge it up to get it to fire in a way that doesn't really do much damage unless charged a while...which kills your Devil Trigger Gauge which is far better used on actually using Devil Trigger and killing enemies with that, let alone guns were a good way to safely build up DT to begin with which this gun defeats the purpose of, and when all is said and done, it doesn't have any real use over Shotgun or Grenade Gun. It ALMOST looked useful when I figured using it in conjunction with SParda could be cool...oh wait, Sparda doesn't allow for DT Runes to exist AT ALL, so Nightmare Beta is now like the most useless thing ever with that combo!
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Force Edge: 3/10
Alastor: 7/10
Ifrit: 7/10
Sparda: 5/10
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns): 5/10
Shotgun: 6/10
Grenade Gun: 9/10
Needle Gun: DNR(Can't compare it to other weapons) or 3/10
Nightmare-Beta: 2/10
-
Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchest: Assuming you mean Ashley Winchester, 8.1/10
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10
Brad Evans: 7.7/10
Tim Rhymeless: 7.3/10
Kanon: 7/10
Anastasia Valeria: 8.9/10
Lucied: 6.4/10
Marivel Armitage: 4.4/10
Don't care about CC, and don't remember DMC enough to care to vote on it. If you're desperate, I can rank them
-
Ashley Winchester: 4/10. Wow, way to be outpaced by someone else on almost all the niches you do until the endgame, Ashley. KnightBlazer hype is probably as worthless as Kain DL hype to boot, so Full Clip is all he has.
Lilka Eleniak: 7/10. Stats on the right places, a very good buff and infinite healing. Durability is an issue on uh Belleclaire and Kanon - which I guess is enough, buuuuuuut. Also, weakness-hitting is very common and she's very good at it. I think I could pull a pretty long list of the losers I OHKOed with elemental summons hitting weaknesses with Lilka.
Brad Evans: 7.5/10. Sure, works. I think he loses some worth by the endgame as his offense hits a wall, but he is very good at killing things, and Mediums can fix the speed issue somewhat for randoms once you get 25 FP at base for GT smash.
Tim Rhymeless: 6/10. First Aid is that damn good+he -needs- to be in the party if you want to use summons, which play into Lilka being good. Durability is awful and is low enough to make him a liability at more places than Belleclaire/Kanon to boot.
Kanon: 6.5/10. She has more lategame damage potential than even Brad and is amazingly fast, but the skills can be awkward to learn and she is less versatile (no crowd control whatsoever, for instance). Not to mention she joins kinda late and needs to build those skills. Yeah, this works.
Anastasia Valeria: DNR.
Lucied: DNR.
Marivel Armitage: 2/10. A Blue Mage that joins with practically nothing at near endgame? Egregious failure.
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 6.5/10. Sure.
Greco: 3/10. Sucks.
Macha: 4/10. Okay stat spread, but skills leave something to be desired.
Zappa: 3/10. Eh, pure fighter in CC.
Orcha: 5/10. Better stats than Macha! Also skills are worth caring about a bit more.
Miki: 6/10. Yeah, solid fighter-mage, and those tend to work in CC.
Janice: 1/10. Look at those recruitment requirements and at her stat spread then tell me how well that works out.
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT WEAPON!!!
Bonus Rounds do *NOT* get applied to the overall rankings since...well...we're not ranking characters! They're just something extra to add on the side for discussion or whatever. So even if something scores 10/10, its not gonna get on the Top 10 List!
That said, cause I hate some of you...
Devil May Cry:
Force Edge: 1/10. Why.
Alastor: 8/10. I just find the movement so -valuable-. Alastor is very effective at what it does (i.e. grant you awesome mobility, some of it straight offensive at that) and it's not a damage failure either. My preferred weapon.
Ifrit: 7/10. However, this is no slouch either. Ifrit isn't as flexible as Alastor, but its damage output is monstrous when you know how to use it, and you also need that. Ifrit/Alastor are quite well-balanced, really.
Sparda: 2/10. No Devil Trigger? Seriously? Fuck that.
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns): 7/10. Another mobility weapon that's great at what it does. I never used it for -straight offense-, but it's great at charging DT, chipping for Style, tying up enemies and even some weird mobility games with the pseudo-gliding.
Shotgun: 4/10. It's kind of your power weapon early, but it has a few issues - mainly being bad at power at non-close range, which is counterproductive to a ranged weapon. It just exists as filler until you get Grenade Gun.
Grenade Gun: 7/10. Another great weapon, and it's the main reason you -should- learn roll cancelling. Very hard-hitting, actually does range unlike the shotgun and doesn't kill your mobility with roll cancel abuse. It basically fills the niches E&I can't.
Needle Gun: DNR.
Nightmare-Beta: 0/10. No. Just... no.
-
Wild ARMs 2nd Ignition:
Ashley Winchester: 5.81
Lilka Eleniak: 6.90
Brad Evans: 7.32
Tim Rhymeless: 4.68
Kanon: 5.90
Anastasia Valeria: N/A
Lucied: N/A
Marivel Armitage: 2.49
Chrono Cross Red Innates:
Kid: 5.83
Greco: 3.00
Macha: 4.28
Zappa: 3.19
Orcha: 4.13
Miki: 5.43
Janice: 2.13
Best Rating of this Session: Brad w/ 7.32
Worst Ratnig of this session: Janice w/ 2.13
Anastasia and Lucied get punted and DNRed and all that fun stuff, yay!
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT WEAPON!
Devil May Cry:
Force Edge: 1.50
Alastor: 7.50
Ifrit: 6.80
Sparda: 3.50
Ebony and Ivory (aka Handguns): 6.80
Shotgun: 4.60
Grenade Gun: 6.90
Needle Gun: N/A
Nightmare-Beta: 1.25
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
7. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
8. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
9. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
10. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
Ok, we move onto MORE CHRONO CROSS, with a forgotten warrior from Red or something cause you all failed to acknowledge him early enough! YOU also didn't notice I mispelled Ashley's last name and thus all need to die in fire or something! With that in mind, we're doing three games again! ...only cause one of them is ludicrously small:
Secret of Mana:
Randi:
Purim:
Popoi:
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod:
Sophia Esteed:
Peppita Rosetti:
Cliff Fittir:
Nel Zelpher:
Roger S. Huxley:
Maria Traydor:
Albel Nox:
Adray Lasbard:
Mirage Koas:
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena:
Nikki:
Pierre:
Korcha:
Irenes:
Fargo:
Marcy:
Orhla:
Draggy:
(again, Draggy is an FW from the previous session, so shut up)
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: Hits things. Has durability. 4/10
Purim: Heals things. Also has buffs of variable usefulness. Also the occasional offensive spell. Getting spell levels up is sort of a pain and lack of resources early on hurts a bit, but not a whole lot, and it's worth it in the end. 8.5/10
Popoi: Chaining spells sorta badly trivializes the game's bosses. Getting spell levels up is sort of a pain and again, lacks resources early, but still, worth it in the end. 8.5/10
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Nikki: Eh not very good CC filler. 2.5/10
Pierre: It's Pierre. 1.5/10
Korcha: Getting him means you can't get Glenn. Plus I think Korcha himself was kinda trashy. Fail. 1.5/10
Irenes: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Fargo: Hey look stealing that you actually have for an actually decent length of time! Isn't special outside of that, but hey. 4/10
Marcy: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Orhla: I think she was actually sorta standoutish for CC filler but eh, still CC filler. 3.5/10
Draggy: GAMEBEST STAMINA RECOVERY WHOOO. Also CC filler. 3/10
-
Setting aside Star Ocean 3. My playthrough doesn't really count >.>
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6/10. Leena's solidness always surprised me. Enough physical power to get by, joins ridiculously early, and blue's spell list is probably the best overall, I think. Widely available, good uniques, the game hands you a summon... so yeah.
Nikki: 5/10. *shrug* Although... he probably has the best route into Viper Manor, so that's an extra point.
Pierre: 3/10. He is a LOT of fun at the endgame but yeah, pretty bad unto himself.
Korcha: 4/10. NOt bad really, certainly worth using if you take the kid path. If.
Irenes: 3/10. zzz.
Fargo: 5/10. Thieving! Stats aren't bad either, I've definitely used him just for lack of superior options before.
Marcy: 5/10. Fargo's utility usually keeps me using him over her, but her stats are in the right place too.
Orhla: 6/10. Quietly has some of the best stats in the game. Later joiner hurts of course.
Draggy: 4/10. Filler. Not bad at it, but filler.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 5/10
Good enough, nothing special. His being totally non-unique basically works for the game, since it means you can just focus weapon skill on one character and magic on the others.
Purim: 9/10
Invaluable jack-of-all-trades type character. Cure Water(?) is one of the most broken healing spells I've ever seen. She's kind of weak on defense, sort of. Look, I've seen her die, so she's not a 10.
Popoi: 9/10
Breaks the game absurdly, which to be fair is because it's so shoddily programmed. -1 star for the time it takes to level magic up and durability issues.
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: Never gotten her
Nikki: Same
Pierre: 1/10
Korcha: 1/10
Irenes: 3/10
Okay filler unit
Fargo: 7/10
One of the best in the game simply because he can steal during the Lynx segment.
Marcy: Never used
Orhla: Never used
Draggy: Haven't used enough to judge him, seems pretty pointless.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 5/10 Good to use if you want to save your spells for bosses like I did
Purim: 9/10 Healer
Popoi: 9/10 spell chaining
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 6/10 Main
Sophia Esteed: 3/10 Underleveled mage. in a star ocean game. Gets points for healing
Peppita Rosetti: 8/10 Really good if you know how to use her
Cliff Fittir: 9/10 Max shockwave, Fist of fury and aerial assault are all stand outs
Nel Zelpher: 7/10 Somewhat Jeigany
Roger S. Huxley: 3/10 He can be useful, but eh
Maria Traydor: 10/10 um... yeah
Albel Nox: 6/10 It hurts me to pul Albel this low. His normal attack is very nice though as it can be chained
Adray Lasbard: 1/10 useless. If you want to use a mage, use Sophia
Mirage Koas: 3/10 Pointless
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 9/10 One of the best early game characters. Isnt too shabby later either
Nikki: 5/10 okay, I guess
Pierre: 1/10 yeah...
Korcha: 1/10 Needs pants badly.
Irenes: 7/10 I got great use out of her when you first get her since she is your only innate blue for a while in the Lynx path.
Fargo: 8/10 Strong and only stealer for the plates
Marcy: 10/10 My favorite character.
Orhla: 5/10 Has good strength, but really thats it. She comes late so she doesnt get the "star boosts"
Draggy: 7/10 13 stamina! Average stats, nothing is bad. 7 seems right.
-
Once more the lack of Chrono Cross is due to rememberance issues...
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 5.5/10. Is serviceable, and does his job well enough...works on AI at least, since he does nothing else. Durability at worst!
Purim: 9.5/10. Is awesome.
Popoi: 9.5/10. Is also awesome.
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 6.6/10. Is good. His early techs suck except Side Kick, and then he has to wait until Strayer Void for a good later tech. He has few techs I'd call good, though stats are decent. Just feels like someone to replace, though late-game has awesome potential.
Sophia Esteed: 2.7/10. Feels far worse for the main-game, as magic feels more difficult to boost for. Comes in significantly low-level, too, especially when compared to Adray. She is good, but really, really takes a lot of work.
Peppita Rosetti: 5.5/10. Is really awesome! And doesn't need as much set-up as Sophia! Still comes at a low level, and it's not obvious she's decent. Still...
Cliff Fittir: 9.7/10. HAMMER OF MOTHERFUCKING MIGHT, BITCHES!!! Really awesome early, and he picks up late with Max Shockwave too.
Nel Zelpher: 8.3/10. Great early - she has some survivability issues, but corrects out later well enough. Early healing is nice, and her offense is good, picking up a lot later. Doesn't feel as dominating early as Cliff does (lacks strong AoE), but does have strong MP damage.
Roger S. Huxley: 5/10. Is...sadly...decent. Some of his early techs are very good, but he is the worst of the optionals, mostly.
Maria Traydor: 10/10. It's Maria. She is awesome. She starts out with decent skills but a crappy weapon...then gets an automatic drop weapon which is awesome! Even ignoring IC, she ends up good. Her support spells are more helpful than you'd expect, too. She can do range or melee attacks, and owns with all of them.
Albel Nox: 7.4/10. At the very least, joins early and powerful enough to be helpful. The techs are very good and unique, which makes him a decent option.
Adray Lasbard: 4.7/10. Is a better mage in the main-game than Sophia. Still serviceable late as well. He has the menu spells that make Sophia interesting, and has physical skills that are decent. Doesn't feel particularly great, but workable.
Mirage Koas: 7/10. Is good...but kind of falls behind - she's a combination of Maria and Cliff...and comes after them ages later. Level is decent, at least, but...she's basically a substitute for either, and lacks the range of Maria. Just feels a little out-dated when she joins, but is at least usable.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 5 - Vague recollection, but this feels right.
Purim: 8.5 - SoM mage, but dies less.
Popoi: 8 - SoM mage
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 7 - Above average, and great availability, of course. Good candidate for your early common support symbols.
Sophia Esteed: 3 - Pretty useless.
Peppita Rosetti: 8 - Dances are broken when maxed out. Good otherwise, too, but not around during the parts of the game I wanted someone like her.
Cliff Fittir: 9 - Always seemed to be the best choice until very very late in the game.
Nel Zelpher: 7 - Awesome at first, but trails off in usefulness. Early healing is great.
Roger S. Huxley: 2 - How do you make an ARPG melee character bad? Yup.
Maria Traydor: 8 - Awesome! ...sometimes. Has times where she lags. Also gotten a little late.
Albel Nox: 6 - Speed! Some status! Takes forever to get going.
Adray Lasbard: 3 - Pretty useless.
Mirage Koas: 6 - Redundant, late-joining PC?
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6.5 - Joins early, solid physical/magical build. Has one of the only triple techs in the game and it actually does notable damage. Being Blue innate makes her a good candidate for that early summon you get. Loses a point for her final tech being easily missable. (You have to choose the right dialogue options at the very beginning of the game?!)
Nikki: 6.5 - Who I would use for my Blue innate if I didn't get Leena. Double tech with Miki is pretty serviceable too. Best of the Manor splitpaths.
Pierre: 2 - Why?
Korcha: 6 - Blue innate, so he can work as a mage or a summon candidate if you missed any of the others. Good for Kid path.
Irenes: 3 - Has durability issues IIRC. Weird element grid, too.
Fargo: 8 - Holy crap a notable CC character. Only one who can steal the Elemental Plates, which is a must for frue game-breaking~
Marcy: 5 - Not bad, but kind of late and redundant.
Orhla: 7 - Late joiner, but the stats are actually worthwhile. Good techs too.
Draggy: 4.5 - Getting his final tech was always troublesome, but he was decent enough.
-
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 7.5/10 - Side Kick! Side Kick! Is that all you've got!? Side Kick! Oh wait Aiiir Raid! Specialist play with infinity juggling/Divine Blade is interesting but not that suited to three man teams.
Sophia Esteed: 5.5/10 - Thunder Flare! Explosion! Thunder Flare!
Peppita Rosetti: 8.5/10 - Power Dance! Counter hax, Faerie Friend! Oh maiden of war fly with light and flame! Dream Hammer! Perhaps a bit high but Power Dance and Dream Hammer really are really broke.
Cliff Fittir: 9.5/10 - Hammer of MIGHT!, Aerial Assault! Fists of Fury! Maax Shockwave! Whichs takes care of his issue of lacking any real range before.
Nel Zelpher: 8/10 - Healing, Whirlwind! Ice Daggers! Whirlwind! Unlike Pep though often runs into major elemental resistances on bosses, especially post game =/
Roger S. Huxley: 6/10 - Charge, Charge, Charge!
Maria Traydor: 10/10 - Scatter Beams! Aiming Device! Scatter Beams! Dust to dust, ashes to ashes! Energy Burst!
Albel Nox: 7.5/10 - Aura Wall! Double Slash of Fury!
Adray Lasbard: 5.5/10
Mirage Koas: 6.5/10 - Crescent Locus! Triple Kick! Crescent Locus!
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6.5/10
Nikki: Abstain
Pierre: 4.5/10
Korcha: 4/10
Irenes: 5/10
Fargo: 6/10
Marcy: 6/10
Orhla: Abstain
Draggy: Abstain
-
Jesus christ, Vampiric Flash, people. You run in, you hit the strong version, everything dies.
-
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 6/10
Sophia Esteed: 1/10
Peppita Rosetti: 3/10
Cliff Fittir: 7/10
Nel Zelpher: 8/10
Roger S. Huxley: 2/10
Maria Traydor: 8/10.
Albel Nox: 4/10
Adray Lasbard: ???
Mirage Koas: ???
Not rating CC.
-
Vampiric Flash's dph isn't as impressive of that of other AoE skills and the draining doesn't prevent Albel from getting slaughtered against certain post game bosses especially on 4D mode. Mass Boots of Prowess will help there to a certain extent on the earlier difficulty modes but yeah. I've never found Albel's damage out put to be that impressive during the story either to be honest unless he's jacked up on Orichalcum and/or Power Dance. Even then Cliff/Maria/Power Dance/Whirlwind Nel hold the advantage and they just destroy things even without Ori =/
Edit: Screw it, he at least deserves the same score as Fayt >_> Double Slash of Fury is great for post game if you have magic fingers, I mean I can't use it skillfully to save myself but kudos to those who can~
-
A character's skill falling out in the post game on replay only difficulties is not going to really dent plenty of people's ratings of a character's in game use, just saying.
-
Well yeah that's the thing though Vampiric Flash or indeed Albel's damage isn't even all that impressive in general during story mode at least not without Item Creation. One only needs to look at Albel's DL damage to see that. Sure I can jack Albel up on Ori and blow the game apart but it's possible to do that with every skill and character so it's kind of hard to see where to draw the line there. Even the weakest skills or the lowest levelled characters destroy everything with Ori. So I prefer to look at the base damage modifiers of skills and things without taking Ori into account but that's just the way I do things >_> I've seen a L1 Peppita hit for 26'000~ with one hit of her three hit physical when hitting elemental weakness with one of her weapons and raging anger from Sophia dying, she can probably do over 99'999 in total and easily counter everything to death with her counters jacked up on Oris even at L1 but it'd be silly to take that into account <.< I like Albel because he offers something different from innate blitzers/heavy hitters like Cliff/Maria and the optional girls, Aura Wall can bounce and hold enemies in one spot for said blitzers and most of his skills do something like knock enemies down or around which is good for safety orientated play. That said I do personally favour a blitz orientated playing style in games and like big numbers so when VF only maxes out at something like 20'000 per hit in a base something > VF cancel while other AoE skills are hitting for 40'000~ or higher with the same base 125% cancel it is something that stands out to me.
Eh most people haven't been rating him that highly anyway >.> Just average. Which is fine I think.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 4/10. Randi's got game best physical stats but honestly, they're not by enough that I realistically CARE.
Purim: 8.5/10. Has just about everything you want. Healing, a few damage moves, etc. The only problem is SoM is a game where resource issues DO exist, since MP is limited for a good part of the game and you can only hold 4 MP Healing items at once, so you do have to budget her some.
Popoi: 7.5/10. Good offensive magic, but he lacks Purim's supportive spells, and most importantly, no Healing. The MP issues are NOT dealt with from his MP Draining move cause its gotten late, which means its also low level, and egads does it fail at gaining MP at low levels.
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 6.5/10. Weak start, but once he gets Side Kick, he's solid throughout the game.
Sophia Esteed: 4/10. Misses out half the game + joins at level 1? Yeah, even if her skills are good, I can only give her so much credit.
Peppita Rosetti: 3.5/10. Sophia, for the most part, with less useful skills.
Cliff Fittir: 7.5/10. Strong throughout most of the game.
Nel Zelpher: 8/10. Same here! Half a point for joining with Healing, so that's one less person to worry about giving that "Common Support Spells" book to.
Roger S. Huxley: 3/10. Not good throughout most of the game...and he's actually around, so he doesn't even have an excuse!
Maria Traydor: 8.5/10. Yeah, Scatter Beam spam and all that.
Albel Nox: 5/10. He's fine, but nothing special.
Adray Lasbard: 4/10. The way SO3 is set up, feels like trying to be a Red Mage doesn't go very far, as specializing tends to be better, so...
Mirage Koas: 5/10. Good, but joins late and no real drive to use her over Cliff at this point.
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 4/10. Filler CC.
Nikki: 4/10. Same here!
Pierre: 2/10. Notable bad!
Korcha: 2/10. Same here.
Irenes: 6/10. Good Healer/Mage, from what I recall
Fargo: 5.,5/10. He can steal, and was workable enough otherwise. Got his level 7 tech pretty early too, I seem to recall.
Marcy: 6/10. Good stats overall, I wanna say.
Orhla: 6/10. Good fighter.
Draggy: 4/10. Game best speed has to count for SOMETHING. Thing is, I don't remember him being good in generally any other department.
-
A character's skill falling out in the post game on replay only difficulties is not going to really dent plenty of people's ratings of a character's in game use, just saying.
If it was like ME2 difficulties, where enemies get new resists and abilities, maybe I'd count it. But SO3's higher difficulties are the worst kind: no new AI strategies or abilities, just multiplying all enemy stats by 1.X.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 4/10. Randi's got game best physical stats but honestly, they're not by enough that I realistically CARE.
Purim: 8.5/10. Has just about everything you want. Healing, a few damage moves, etc. The only problem is SoM is a game where resource issues DO exist, since MP is limited for a good part of the game and you can only hold 4 MP Healing items at once, so you do have to budget her some.
Popoi: 7.5/10. Good offensive magic, but he lacks Purim's supportive spells, and most importantly, no Healing. The MP issues are NOT dealt with from his MP Draining move cause its gotten late, which means its also low level, and egads does it fail at gaining MP at low levels.
Meeple got it.
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 5/10. He's okay. Never found anything amazing out of him, but he wasn't a terrible option.
Sophia Esteed: 3/10. Level 1 late isn't really good.
Peppita Rosetti: 6/10. Level 1 late, but actually really pays off.
Cliff Fittir: 7.5/10. Very solid. Hammer of Might is the first "wow" tech, he has lots of HP (MP's a problem later) and solid enough otherwise.
Nel Zelpher: 8/10. Ice Daggers, early Berserk, Flying Guillotine, Mirror Slice... all stuff I got a fair bit of mileage out of. Also an MP tank and the free Common Support Symbols was nice.
Roger S. Huxley: 3/10.
Maria Traydor: 8.5/10. Scatter Beam one-shots disc 1 bosses.
Albel Nox: Abstain.
Adray Lasbard: 4/10. Joins earlier than Sophia if you know how to get him, at least.
Mirage Koas: 2/10. Late and pointless. Good in the aftergame but I'm not giving points for that.
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6/10. Solid.
Nikki: 5/10. Also reasonably solid, but less so, I think?
Pierre: 3/10. Bleh.
Korcha: 4/10.
Irenes: 3/10.
Fargo: Abstain, not sure how I feel about his stealing.
Marcy: 7/10. Strong physicals and magic.
Orhla: 4/10. Power, but that's it. Magic's an important stat in CC.
Draggy: Pretty damn sure he's not blue, but... 3/10.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 4/10. Randi's got game best physical stats but honestly, they're not by enough that I realistically CARE.
Purim: 8.5/10. Has just about everything you want. Healing, a few damage moves, etc. The only problem is SoM is a game where resource issues DO exist, since MP is limited for a good part of the game and you can only hold 4 MP Healing items at once, so you do have to budget her some.
Popoi: 7.5/10. Good offensive magic, but he lacks Purim's supportive spells, and most importantly, no Healing. The MP issues are NOT dealt with from his MP Draining move cause its gotten late, which means its also low level, and egads does it fail at gaining MP at low levels.
Meeple got it.
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 5/10. He's okay. Never found anything amazing out of him, but he wasn't a terrible option.
Sophia Esteed: 3/10. Level 1 late isn't really good.
Peppita Rosetti: 6/10. Level 1 late, but actually really pays off.
Cliff Fittir: 7.5/10. Very solid. Hammer of Might is the first "wow" tech, he has lots of HP (MP's a problem later) and solid enough otherwise.
Nel Zelpher: 8/10. Ice Daggers, early Berserk, Flying Guillotine, Mirror Slice... all stuff I got a fair bit of mileage out of. Also an MP tank and the free Common Support Symbols was nice.
Roger S. Huxley: 3/10.
Maria Traydor: 8.5/10. Scatter Beam one-shots disc 1 bosses.
Albel Nox: Abstain.
Adray Lasbard: 4/10. Joins earlier than Sophia if you know how to get him, at least.
Mirage Koas: 2/10. Late and pointless. Good in the aftergame but I'm not giving points for that.
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6/10. Solid.
Nikki: 5/10. Also reasonably solid, but less so, I think?
Pierre: 3/10. Bleh.
Korcha: 4/10.
Irenes: 3/10.
Fargo: Abstain, not sure how I feel about his stealing.
Marcy: 7/10. Strong physicals and magic.
Orhla: 4/10. Power, but that's it. Magic's an important stat in CC.
Draggy: Pretty damn sure he's not blue, but... 3/10.
Lazy and these are mostly spot on. Noting that Nel totally deserves her 8 for early game Healing as well which is awesomely useful then and if you use her all game as your primary healer she gets awesome healing at end game. Great character, should be used.
Edit - And yeah Draggy is a Red
-
Grefter quoted:
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 4/10. Randi's got game best physical stats but honestly, they're not by enough that I realistically CARE.
Purim: 8.5/10. Has just about everything you want. Healing, a few damage moves, etc. The only problem is SoM is a game where resource issues DO exist, since MP is limited for a good part of the game and you can only hold 4 MP Healing items at once, so you do have to budget her some.
Popoi: 7.5/10. Good offensive magic, but he lacks Purim's supportive spells, and most importantly, no Healing. The MP issues are NOT dealt with from his MP Draining move cause its gotten late, which means its also low level, and egads does it fail at gaining MP at low levels.
Meeple got it.
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 6.5/10. He's okay. Never found anything amazing out of him, but he wasn't a terrible option. Still, SIDEKICKSIDEKICK gives a +1.5. >_>
Sophia Esteed: 3/10. Level 1 late isn't really good.
Peppita Rosetti: 6/10. Level 1 late, but actually really pays off.
Cliff Fittir: 7.5/10. Very solid. Hammer of Might is the first "wow" tech, he has lots of HP (MP's a problem later) and solid enough otherwise.
Nel Zelpher: 8/10. Ice Daggers, early Berserk, Flying Guillotine, Mirror Slice... all stuff I got a fair bit of mileage out of. Also an MP tank and the free Common Support Symbols was nice.
Roger S. Huxley: 3/10.
Maria Traydor: 8.5/10. Scatter Beam one-shots disc 1 bosses.
**Albel Nox: 5/10. Usable but not great, Aura Wall I definitely tried using and never saw stellar results.
Adray Lasbard: 4/10. Joins earlier than Sophia if you know how to get him, at least.
Mirage Koas: 2/10. Late and pointless. Good in the aftergame but I'm not giving points for that.
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6/10. Solid.
Nikki: 4/10. Also reasonably solid, but less so, I think?
Pierre: 3/10. Bleh.
Korcha: 4/10.
Irenes: 3/10.
Fargo: 7/10. Thief, competent damage. Works.
Marcy: 5/10. Competent at physicals and magic, sure, but she had weird availability IIRC?
Orhla: 4/10. Power, but that's it. Magic's an important stat in CC.
Draggy: 5/10. Recovery was nice, which gave him an interesting Red niche.
This works fine, I think. Edited NEB's ratings slightly to give my own opinions but for the most part we sync'd up. (Fayt/Albel/Nikki/Fargo/Marcy/Draggy edited.)
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 4/10. Randi's got game best physical stats but honestly, they're not by enough that I realistically CARE.
Purim: 8.5/10. Has just about everything you want. Healing, a few damage moves, etc. The only problem is SoM is a game where resource issues DO exist, since MP is limited for a good part of the game and you can only hold 4 MP Healing items at once, so you do have to budget her some.
Popoi: 7.5/10. Good offensive magic, but he lacks Purim's supportive spells, and most importantly, no Healing. The MP issues are NOT dealt with from his MP Draining move cause its gotten late, which means its also low level, and egads does it fail at gaining MP at low levels.
Meeple got it.
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 5/10. He's okay. Never found anything amazing out of him, but he wasn't a terrible option.
Sophia Esteed: 3/10. Level 1 late isn't really good.
Peppita Rosetti: 6/10. Level 1 late, but actually really pays off.
Cliff Fittir: 7.5/10. Very solid. Hammer of Might is the first "wow" tech, he has lots of HP (MP's a problem later) and solid enough otherwise.
Nel Zelpher: 8/10. Ice Daggers, early Berserk, Flying Guillotine, Mirror Slice... all stuff I got a fair bit of mileage out of. Also an MP tank and the free Common Support Symbols was nice.
Roger S. Huxley: 3/10.
Maria Traydor: 8.5/10. Scatter Beam one-shots disc 1 bosses.
Albel Nox: Abstain.
Adray Lasbard: 4/10. Joins earlier than Sophia if you know how to get him, at least.
Mirage Koas: 2/10. Late and pointless. Good in the aftergame but I'm not giving points for that.
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 6/10. Solid.
Nikki: 5/10. Also reasonably solid, but less so, I think?
Pierre: 3/10. Bleh.
Korcha: 4/10.
Irenes: 3/10.
Fargo: Abstain, not sure how I feel about his stealing.
Marcy: 7/10. Strong physicals and magic.
Orhla: 4/10. Power, but that's it. Magic's an important stat in CC.
Draggy: Pretty damn sure he's not blue, but... 3/10.
-
Draggy is indeed Red, HOWEVER, he's a total FW in this session; we forgot him last round, so I just shoved him onto this one. I thought I made a note about that in the first post?
Granted, "When" someone gets rated isn't a big deal, its more "Were they rated, y/n?"
EDIT: That last part was a reminder mostly such that, while I don't think anything was implied by the Draggy = Red other than "Meeple you screwed up!", something happened in the previous topic where someone voted to "DNR" a certain character based on "OMG! HE DOESN'T FIT WITH THE CURRENT MIX! Rate him later!"
No, doesn't work that way; while some of my choices for how to split up characters may seem random at times, we rate them when I put them up; DNRing them then is the same as DNRing them in general.
-
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 8/10 - Side kick comes early and it owns shit.
Sophia Esteed: 2/10 - ....No.
Peppita Rosetti: 2/10 - ...Hell no.
Cliff Fittir: 8/10
Nel Zelpher: 9/10 - Good even if I'm not controlling her and that is worth a point. I don't use those silly books so that healing is nice.
Roger S. Huxley: 8/10
Maria Traydor: 7/10 - Lateness drops her a point.
Albel Nox: 8/10
Adray Lasbard: 8/10
Mirage Koas: 7/10 - Lateness drops her a point
-
Yeah Meep, just confirming that Elf wasn't misremembering. Not a big deal.
-
Secret of Mana:
Randi: 4.45
Purim: 8.70
Popoi: 8.15
Star Ocean 3: Til The End of Time:
Fayt Leingod: 6.28
Sophia Esteed: 3.02
Peppita Rosetti: 5.68
Cliff Fittir: 8.15
Nel Zelpher: 7.94
Roger S. Huxley: 3.73
Maria Traydor: 8.68
Albel Nox: 6.11
Adray Lasbard: 4.22
Mirage Koas: 4.25
Chrono Cross Blue Innates:
Leena: 5.90
Nikki: 4.67
Pierre: 2.45
Korcha: 3.23
Irenes: 3.82
Fargo: 6.31
Marcy: 6.10
Orhla: 4.83
Draggy: 4.06
Best Rating of this session: Purim w/ 8.70
Worst Rating of this session: Korcha w/ 3.23
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
7. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
8. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
9. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
10. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
You guys need to be less lazy with ratings! I mean, come on, did 3 people have to copy one person's other ratings? THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE! ITS NOT THAT HARD!
...token whining out of the way...still doing 3 games, cause one of the games is stupid small and I want to get it out of the way now! Also, the care factor for this game isn't high to begin with:
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn:
Noa:
Gala:
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson:
Bosche "Bow" Doggie:
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan:
Rand Marks:
Nina Wyndia:
Sten Legacy:
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean:
Aspara "Spar" Gus:
Deis:
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio:
Glenn:
Razzly:
Sprigg:
Radius:
Van:
Karsh:
Turnip:
And yes, I *DID* go there with BoF2 names. MWAHAHAHAHAHA! *Runs*
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: Yon average main. 5/10
Noa: Oh hey speed and combo bar length. That's cool. 7/10
Gala: gamebest magic zomg. Too bad he couldn't have gotten more of the stats that actually matter. 3/10
Breath of Fire 2: eff thinking about this
Ryu Bateson:
Bosche "Bow" Doggie:
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan:
Rand Marks:
Nina Wyndia:
Sten Legacy:
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean:
Aspara "Spar" Gus:
Deis:
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: Not good. 2.5/10
Glenn: Faster, more physically oriented Serge. Being splitpath and splitskies for a large chunk of the game holds him back though. 5/10
Razzly: No. 2/10
Sprigg: NO. 1/10
Radius: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Van: Eh CC filler. 3/10
Karsh: Actually standoutish! Though this may just be random fanboyism talking there. 4/10
Turnip: NO. 1/10
-
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson:
Bosche "Bow" Doggie:
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan:
Rand Marks:
Nina Wyndia:
Sten Legacy:
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean:
Aspara "Spar" Gus:
Deis:
And yes, I *DID* go there with BoF2 names. MWAHAHAHAHAHA! *Runs*
I thought that would have been obvious by the fact we're ranking BoF2?
-
Albel joins some what later than Maria and a player might completely miss Adray until near/the very end of the game. Just thought it strange that those two didn't receive dockings for lateness when Maria/Mirage did ;o
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: Abstain
Glenn: 7.5/10 - Two sword hype! *flees*
Razzly: Abstain
Sprigg: 4.5/10 - There. Forced PC during dream world irrc so saw usage at least? Interesting ... concept. Don't really remember using her to any great and rewarding extent though.
Radius: Abstain
Van: Abstain
Karsh: 7/10 - No I agree Karsh is the man *^_^*
Turnip: Abstain
I remember always wanting to get Razzly but the recruitment hoops were annoying and confusing >.>
-
Assuming you know how to get Adray on disc 1, Mirage joins much later than anyone else, so I stand by that making her quite a bit worse. EDIT: Not because she's not available, but because she's so underlevelled when she joins... you'll pretty much spend the rest of the game just getting her up to speed, which is obviously less efficient than just using the built-up PCs you already have, since she doesn't really do anything Cliff can't in the maingame (her MP fails a bit less once she closes the level gap, that's about it). Maria... all I can think of is that since she got much better scores than Adray/Albel, some people thought it was worth it to take points from her only because it prevented her from getting a 9 or a 10 or something. Higher standards for good PCs, and all that.
THINK FOR YOURSELVES
Chrono Cross/Secret of Mana ratings, you expect people to care?
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 6.5/10. Actually rather solid. Probably your best mage in practice as well, and he gets good mults on his attacks to boot.
Noa: 7.5/10. Got fine use out of Tough Love and she ends up being your strongest physical fighter. Needed more MP, though.
Gala: 3.5/10. He uh is a passable enough healer. Offense is junk, though - Gala also has horrible stats for randoms.
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8/10. Your -best- physical fighter until the endgame and also has a nice "fuck your HP" button for bosses. Durable and damaging, little else to ask.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 4.5/10. Uh he lags. Has the best healing... eventually, and he also has okay damage due to a few cool weapons in a few stints, but the open gaps in-between that are not very nice.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 6.5/10. Hits like a freight train in the endgame and always hits hard and fast. The durability is very sketchy.
Rand Marks: 5.5/10. Healers never felt -that- essential in BoF2 (healing, yes. Healers, not so). Doesn't take the merit out of Rand, though. The speed is horrible, but very durable healer is a decent niche.
Nina Wyndia: 7.5/10. Woohoo, randomsmashing and okay damage for bosses! Also fails at durability, but she gets to benefit from fusions early enough to mitigate the subpar speed and once she starts having speed, she grows into a great PC.
Sten Legacy: 4/10. He has a few niche stints: good speed, passable damage and can fusion early. Past that, hardly someone who you'd put in your primary party.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 3/10. Death is nice. The durability works. Everything else, though? The awesome endgame fusion keeps him from a 2.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2/10. Nothing saves him from that 2, though. Physically frail, slow and very sketchy at skillset (he has a bit of everything, but nothing he's -really good at- besides buffs, and Deis covers him on buffs as -is-), and even his fusions are junk.
Deis: 9/10. Wins the game.
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 2/10. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Glenn: 7.5/10. Good PC!
Razzly: 3/10. She's an okay mage! Who has terrible stats elsewhere and forces you to go the worse route. No.
Sprigg: 2/10. Fuck yooooooooooooooooooooou.
Radius: 4/10. Eeeeeeeeeh. Radius' stats are sketchy.
Van: 2/10. As are Van's. And his skills also blow!
Karsh: 7/10. Acacia Dragoons tend to do fairly well at stats. Karsh ain't an exception.
Turnip: 2/10. Failure.
-
THINK FOR YOURSELVES
Chrono Cross/Secret of Mana ratings, you expect people to care?
No, not really. It was an attempt to pretend to overreact at people being lazy, but in truth, I don't care. Just something I noticed. You weren't suppose to respond to that :(
-
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: Never Used
Glenn: 6/10 Overrated, at least based on the time I used him. He's not that much better than the average character, maybe hits a little harder. X-Strike is pretty sick in some cases.
Razzly: 4/10 Filler
Sprigg: Abstaining, I don't know enough about her mechanics
Radius: 4/10 He's all right until you get better dudes
Van: 4/10 IIRC boomerangs make him pretty helpful for a while
Karsh: 6/10
Turnip: Never Used
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 4 - Average all-around, but sort of lagged behind the others to me. Faster than Gala was good, though!
Noa: 7 - Gamebest speed really helped. Used her as a healer a lot as a result. Pretty much carried the battles.
Gala: 5 - Gamebest magic mattered in LoL... I remember using magic over the combat strings in nearly every fight.
Breath of Fire 2:
Pass
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 2/10 - Nothing about her stands out. The green magic skillset wasn't particularly helpful until late, and she was really easy to miss.
Glenn: 6/10 - Minus 1 point for being split path. Good weapons, good damage, double techs with the main character... yeah, he's good. He also benefits nicely from Green magic's best spells.
Razzly: 5/10 - Minus 1 point for being split path. The only character I -like- from the Kid path. She's got great magic and manages to work the green magic skillset pretty well. Point for getting the only maingame triple tech with Serge and Leena.
Sprigg: 6/10 - Potentially broken from changing into monsters. It's all negated by how annoying collecting her transformations is.
Radius: 4/10 - Solid for green.
Van: 4/10 - Solid for green.
Karsh: 7/10 - Awesome.
Turnip: 2/10 - Waste of space.
-
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8/10 - Solid
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 8/10- got all the healing spells Rand didnt IIRC
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 7/10- Strong but frail
Rand Marks: 7/10- Tanky healer
Nina Wyndia: 5/10 Out classed by Deis/Bleu
Sten Legacy: 5/10 Out classed by Katt
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 2/10 , the points are for death
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 5/10 Early fusion, lots of HP for a mage, I always like him for some reason
Deis: Why not "Bleu"? LOL 10/10 broken, maxes like all her stats
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 3/10 Her draining move was okay I think.
Glenn: 9/10 Would be a 10, but -1 for split path and I'm pretty sure Einlanzer is missable for the dual form.
Razzly: 7/10 excellent mage
Sprigg: 5/10 gimmicky as hell, but Wight Knight is a good doppelgang
Radius: 3/10 um no go away
Van: 2/10 being a good character doesnt mean your good in battle
Karsh: 9/10 yeah, Glenn with no Einlanzers, but better magic deserves the same score
Turnip: 1/10 Probably the latest gotten character. Worthless in every way.
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 4 - Average all-around, but sort of lagged behind the others to me. Faster than Gala was good, though!
Noa: 7 - Gamebest speed really helped. Used her as a healer a lot as a result. Pretty much carried the battles.
Gala: 5 - Gamebest magic mattered in LoL... I remember using magic over the combat strings in nearly every fight.
-Magic- matters. The stat, not so much. Gala doesn't deal all that much damage with the good spells compared to Vahn and even Noa. Since all three are capable of wiping randoms with solid-to-good crowd control serus, the main drive ends up being "who has better stats for randoms", which Vahn and Noa clearly win.
-
Hmm, I'm just noting surprise because I thought LoL was done before? (I remember mildly ranting on Gala overhype)
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 6. Passable, helps that one of your PCs is just trash.
Noa: 8. Fast+status that tends to tie up randoms+absurbly long input bar. The balance for Gala.
Gala: 2.5. Man, how bad do you have be to get a 2.5 in a game with 3 fixed PCs! Yeah, his stat advantages are HP, magic and MP. Magic as a stat does...little, and that's before all the additional problems (Learning magic, learning magic specifically on Gala, the only decent source of spammable damage magic isn't that early, etc..). MP...generally means you'll get any extra casting! Meanwhile, he always has a fraction of the physical damage of the others, and is slow as hell (So...meaning that if I'm right and the magic stat isn't potent, they probably may actually function as better mages or healers at times. And that's his niche!)
Honestly, don't even want to give him a 3 despite 3 fixed PCs thing because he feels like he just stacks up that badly against some other 3s.
Breath of Fire 2 (Rest later)
Ryu Bateson:
Bosche "Bow" Doggie:
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan:
Rand Marks:
Nina Wyndia:
Sten Legacy:
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean:
Aspara "Spar" Gus:
Deis:
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio:
Glenn:
Razzly:
Sprigg:
Radius:
Van:
Karsh:
Turnip:
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 7/10
Noa: 6/10
Gala: 5/10 Don't care about LoL enough to really get into this.
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 7.5/10. Pretty good. Guts, decent offense and tanky. As good as his dragon attacks are, using all his AP and tying it up gives me some pause. That and he doesn't feel much above Nina or Katt.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 3/10. Healing but bad stats and generally worthless except for hunting. BoF2 rewards offense over defense except in a few rare cases.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 7/10. Hits hard though the defense is a big problem. Speed makes up for it but you have to deal with scraping her off the ground every once in awhile.
Rand Marks: 4/10. Tanky and has some offense, but fails to really excel. Not entirely his fault as much as the way BoF2 works.
Nina Wyndia: 7/10. Good multi-target damage, death and Will to recover AP? A fine artillery piece to bring along.
Sten Legacy: 1/10. Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 2/10. Death is worth one point, being Jean is worth -10 points. His final fusion isn't bad but it's much too little much too late.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2/10. Mediocrity.
Deis: 10/10. Has a great spell selection, absurd stats and a useful special ability. Her equipment selection holds her back, but she's still insane.
-
Blah blah blah, need to replay Chrono Cross...
Legend of Legaia: Seriously the most interesting one here >_>
Vahn: 6.7/10. Vahn's well-balanced, and since he's the first character you get, his magic tends to be a little better for a while (Gimard is pretty cool for a while). He's not standout, but still good.
Noa: 9.2/10. Yeah...uh...don't underestimate Tough Love. It trivializes some rough fights, and her speed is usually enough (once at an appropriate level) to outrace and outfight most foes. She can also get some crazy combos going if you know what you're doing.
Gala: 7.2/10. Speed being bad is helpful as he...is the best healer! His stats otherwise are great, and he's theoretically the highest damage character (theoretically if you hit level 99 <_<). He starts a bit behind, unfortunately, but...he's still quite usable. Also helps he's highly likely to survive things, so overkill means NOTHING to him >_>.
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8/10. Overall solid. Hits things, obliterates things, heals self.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 8/10. Stat-boosting items are easy to make, particularly STR. As such, the EggBtr effect he has on his one bow makes him pretty good offensively. Is not available for a while, but picks up fast enough (quick level gain). And has the best healing (granted, items can fix that need).
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 4.7/10. Eh... Shaman form is ok, but honestly...not impressive until then, and even after...the deshamanization thing sucks.
Rand Marks: 6.4/10. Never found him great offensively until really late (doesn't help his equipment sucks), and even then it's not too good. His healing...feels secondarily useful. Items work well enough for that (granted, Puppies or Dragons work relatively well too for KILLING THINGS BEFORE THEY GET A CHANCE TO ACT, especially if you have a Wisdom Fruit or two...which helps Rand out, since he's slow enough to toss them and not waste them!...ok, bonus points)
Nina Wyndia: 7/10. Blows things apart pretty nicely. Frail, and Will seems to hate me, but theoretically never runs out of AP.
Sten Legacy: 3.8/10. Nice as that extra party member when you...uh...don't have one. That's about it, really strikes me as LVP.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 2.1/10. Nevermind >_> Feels completely pointless until the final shaman form with Chop...which doesn't work on bosses. Helps on randoms, but...so slow.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 4.7/10. Teaching him Missile is the best use for him, with his AP and HP. The shaman forms are decent as well, and he has lots so I think he ends up not directly competing with anyone. Granted, feels outclassed by others.
Deis: 9.1/10. Lol I use rings i suck hay guize? She misses being able to get Renew or Cure2, but...eh, not a major issue. Has the stats to use Death unlike Jean, and has better stats than the other mages.
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 7/10. Solid but not overwhelming.
Noa: 9/10. WHAPWHAPWHAPWHAP LUV YOU~
Gala: 5/10. He functions -fine- as a healer. Can he do anything else? Fuck no. Do you need a good healer? Yes. Do the other two really want to waste their time doing that? Ahahaha no. But the guaranteed sluggishness + healing's not too hard to get on people + he does have competentish durability = yeah okay this works for a 5.
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8.5/10. Walking nuke who smashes stuff physically. He does lag early, though, at least to me - but when he starts picking up, it's really noticeable.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 7/10. Leaves the team for a time! But then comes back and levels up fast enough to make him worth reinvesting in. Solid healer and support character.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 5/10. Good if you need another physical cannon, but... Ryu does fine there, at least to me.
Rand Marks: 5/10. Slow healer with less options but DOESN'T DIE EVER. Pretty solid.
Nina Wyndia: 7/10. Also lags a bit. But magic is a good random clearer.
Sten Legacy: 3/10. Uh huh. Can at least provide more magic cannoning if needed, and is faster than Nina at it... but he's not good despite that.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 1/10. No credit for Death when it's fucking endgame and at least two other people can already have it and he's the worst user of it due to his shit speed anyway, and he has nothing else.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 4/10. Only person I'm factoring fusions in for since there's so many available that Spar rarely takes away from the rest of the team's options. Not great options, mind, but makes 'em flexible, Spar's a good Missile choice (Rand/Bow compete, to me), and frankly versatile support wouldn't be terrible... but the game definitely has better -anyway-.
Deis: 9.5/10. Yeaaaaah she's not brooooooooken or anything definitely not. Rings/being hidden/being late cost her that remaining .5.
Chrono Cross Green Innates: Don't care enough, may copy someone else here later, don't care about Meeple's whining~
Neo Fio:
Glenn:
Razzly:
Sprigg:
Radius:
Van:
Karsh:
Turnip:
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 7/10. Solid but not overwhelming.
Noa: 9/10. WHAPWHAPWHAPWHAP LUV YOU~
Gala: 5/10. He functions -fine- as a healer. Can he do anything else? Fuck no. Do you need a good healer? Yes. Do the other two really want to waste their time doing that? Ahahaha no. But the guaranteed sluggishness + healing's not too hard to get on people + he does have competentish durability = yeah okay this works for a 5.
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8.5/10. Walking nuke who smashes stuff physically. He does lag early, though, at least to me - but when he starts picking up, it's really noticeable.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 7/10. Leaves the team for a time! But then comes back and levels up fast enough to make him worth reinvesting in. Solid healer and support character.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 5/10. Good if you need another physical cannon, but... Ryu does fine there, at least to me.
Rand Marks: 5/10. Slow healer with less options but DOESN'T DIE EVER. Pretty solid.
Nina Wyndia: 7/10. Also lags a bit. But magic is a good random clearer.
Sten Legacy: 3/10. Uh huh. Can at least provide more magic cannoning if needed, and is faster than Nina at it... but he's not good despite that.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 1/10. No credit for Death when it's fucking endgame and at least two other people can already have it and he's the worst user of it due to his shit speed anyway, and he has nothing else.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 4/10. Only person I'm factoring fusions in for since there's so many available that Spar rarely takes away from the rest of the team's options. Not great options, mind, but makes 'em flexible, Spar's a good Missile choice (Rand/Bow compete, to me), and frankly versatile support wouldn't be terrible... but the game definitely has better -anyway-.
Deis: 9.5/10. Yeaaaaah she's not brooooooooken or anything definitely not. Rings/being hidden/being late cost her that remaining .5.
Tai covers my thoughts for BoF2 and LoL near perfectly, so score theft is go.
Chrono Cross Green Innates
Neo Fio: 3/10. Whatever.
Glenn: 7/10. Really great character overall. Good element, good stats, he's got basically everything. Loses a point for being splitpath and on the path it's not intuitive to take.
Razzly: 4/10. Not bad, actually. Just...well, you're passing up Glenn to get her, so that costs points.
Sprigg: 6/10. I find her gimmick interesting and fun to mess around with, which is worth a point or two for me.
Radius: 4/10. Eh, usable but why would you bother.
Van: 3/10. I want to like him for some reason, but he's frankly not good.
Karsh: 7/10. Worse then Glenn, but not splitpath and not worse by all that much. Does the job, does it well.
Turnip: 2/10. Green's my favorite CC element by far, and I kinda want to say there's only so bad a Green Innate can be, but...yeah. No. Turnip sucks.
-
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 7/10.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 3/10.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 5/10.
Rand Marks: 4/10.
Nina Wyndia: 5/10.
Sten Legacy: 3/10.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 2/10.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2/10.
Deis: 8/10.
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 4/10. I think anyway. I dno't really remember her having anything specifically wrong with her aside from being weaker than other options, and the game favors green over yellow so, sure, just kinda middling.
Glenn: 7/10. Not so good as Serge, but clearly the #2 character in the game.
Razzly: 5/10. She's really pretty solid, the best of the wand users/pure mages. For whatever that's worth.
Sprigg: 3/10. Just annoying to use.
Radius: 4/10. Well, beats Sprigg at least.
Van: 3/10.
Karsh: 7/10. He's pretty well the best PC you get for the back half of the game, and is never replaced in that role if you didn't get Glenn (who still replaces him kinda late if so)
Turnip: 3/10. Probably the most obscure character in the game, and not worth it to start with.
-
Legend of Legaia:
Breath of Fire 2:
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
ffff
-
Glenn: 7/10. Really great character overall. Good element, good stats, he's got basically everything. Loses a point for being splitpath and on the path it's not intuitive to take.
The hell you say. Kid was obnoxious and I wished she was dead.
-
He just means that the path where you get Not-Jamaican Islander Mom on your team is less intuitive than the "Let's kill a big Hydra and destroy the eco-system for selfish reasons" path.
-
Actually he means "wait, you mean this game actually lets you ignore the cliche option and leave the obvious love interest to die" is obsure. The fact the game gives you so many "you don't really mean that" checks reinforces that, so even a savvier player may not realize you can actually do it.
(Or, indeed, that you can opt to never recruit Kid at all.)
-
CK hits it on the head. The first time I head about the splitpath I was honestly kinda shocked that the game would actually let you give up on her and it wasn't all just a big "But Thou Must" moment.
-
Actually he means "wait, you mean this game actually lets you ignore the cliche option and leave the obvious love interest to die" is obsure. The fact the game gives you so many "you don't really mean that" checks reinforces that, so even a savvier player may not realize you can actually do it.
(Or, indeed, that you can opt to never recruit Kid at all.)
Sssh! I was explaining it in violent, self-serving terms that Rob would understand and you totally ruined the joke~
-
Actually he means "wait, you mean this game actually lets you ignore the cliche option and leave the obvious love interest to die" is obsure. The fact the game gives you so many "you don't really mean that" checks reinforces that, so even a savvier player may not realize you can actually do it.
(Or, indeed, that you can opt to never recruit Kid at all.)
Shrug. I kept trying my first time. Just like when Fallout says "You really don't want to put the FEV in the water," and I respond, "I'm calling your bluff, fucker. You're trying to make me think I'm not allowed to do it but I am."
-
Breath of Fire 2
Ryu Bateson:8/10. Lags early on, but only for about the first two or three dungeons. Then he proceeds to single-handedly hand Argus his ass for the most part and generally doesn't get any worse from there on.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie:4/10: Hoo boy. Leaving the party like this, returning at the same level, in a game without leaked experience? He's a healer, but you don't need too many of those in BoF2. One at most.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan:8/10: One of my main party members. Yeah, she's frail. She also was the only one who was up there with Ryu on damage until Nina came in on her own. Shaman form is awesome.
Rand Marks:3/10: Doesn't deserve anything above what Bow got, really. Close enough, only slower, tankier, and with the only earth spell in the game. woo. hoo. Only now because he hasn't been used for the whole game, you have to levelgrind his ass for that damned knight.
Nina Wyndia:7/10: Nina took a bit to start up. Her usefulness wasn't really apparent for the first...half of the game. She has Bolt-X, though. And Death. Later on she's good.
Sten Legacy: 4/10: He was filler until I got Deis. Fast with okayish magic and damage. Nothing special, though. Minus one for the forced Highfort segment where I had to levelgrind him.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean:3/10: More of a vehicle than a character to me.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2/10: As above, only doesn't even serve that much of a use as one. Also sucks. A lot.
Deis:9/10: It's Deis. What do you expect?
-
BoF 2 is deceptive with its exp curve. You don't get spill over exp, but if you are lower level then you do get more experience than the rest of the party (up to twice as much I believe?) and from there individual characters have their own level up requirements. Bow's is actually insanely low, he is one of the easiest party members to accidentally overlevel because of it. BoF 2 designers knew he would be low level when he came back so compensated for it to get him back up to speed incredibly quickly. If anything they even slightly overtuned it, but it is pretty close that Bow doesn't really suffer much of a penalty other than half a dungeon or so of catch up.
-
Man, base level Rand can beat that knight without much trouble (he kinda sucks), you shouldn't need to levelgrind him. Same goes for Nina's duel. Sten's is the only one I'd expect to actually cause trouble in that regard (even then, it's not too bad, depending on how many fights you got into en route to Highfort).
Breath of Fire 2 (Rest later)
Ryu Bateson: 8/10. High counter rate and game-best defence in a game where the enemies have a huge bias to targetting the first position? Awesome. The best PC against bosses, and the best in randoms that take longer than one round. Unfortunately that's a minority of randoms, or he'd be truly amazing.
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 5/10. Healers are okay.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 7/10. Fast and smashes things.
Rand Marks: 6/10. See Bow. Bonus point because his shamans synergise better with the party's.
Nina Wyndia: 7.5/10. Smashes things, often fast, Infinite MP due to Will, Death is awesome, etc.
Sten Legacy: 4/10. Inferior Katt WITH MORE DURABILITY AND MAGIC but these still don't really matter.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 2/10. Not much to say here, he's too slow to be good in randoms and doesn't provide much else.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2/10. He'd be a bit better if you couldn't teach Cure 2 to another PC, as is he doesn't even get healing battery hype, and again, too slow to be used in randoms.
Deis: 8/10. Nina, but stats are a bit better for a while, a winning trade even though she gives up Will for the inferior Shed.
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 2/10. Ick.
Glenn: 5/10. Good for a fighter, but see my comments before - you need magic for me to really care about you in this game.
Razzly: 3.5/10. Okay filler mage. Maybe.
Sprigg: 2/10. No.
Radius: 3/10. Bleh.
Van: 1/10. lulz, Razzly without the magic.
Karsh: 6.5/10. #3 in strength AND high magic? Sign me up.
Turnip: 3/10. Whatever.
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 6/10. Good for what he is, but nothing special.
Noa: 7/10. I think people overrate just how much better she is than Vahn, and her "Charm" move is like the single silliest hype there is cause, you know, normal damage KILLS RANDOMS, why waste it on charm? That said, still fastest character which is the most important stat.
Gala: 4/10. Ok, the speed drop between Vahn and Gala is much larger than Noa to Vahn, cause at least Vahn did enough damage to keep up with Noa at points, same can't be said for Gala. He's still a meat shield with good HP and MP I guess?
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8.5/10. You really rely on his durability for a good part of the game, considering your team + how Rand needs to play catch up, so that gives him half a point; the other 8 come from being just very good!
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 4/10. Underleveled, and not particularly special when he's caught up. Healing is cool though.
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 7/10. Hits things hard and fast. Dies quickly, but not as big a hinderance as it could be.
Rand Marks: 6/10. Tankish Healer. His healing comes a little later than you'd like, but still solid enough.
Nina Wyndia: 7.5/10. Nukes battle fields dead! Low durability in BoF2 on a mage isn't a big deal, cause being placed in the 4th slot has no downsides on magic damage, while lowering frequency of being hit.
Sten Legacy: 4/10. Has a brief stint where he's great due to early Full Shamanizing, but beyond that, un-impressive.
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 4/10. Wasted potential. They needed to give him more Holy weapons, and up his stats some for his gimmick to really work.
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2/10. Full Shamanizing isn't as cool on a character who has no real means of offense for most of the game, he ends up being Nina with more HP but worse everything else that matters...oh yeah, he's underleveled too!
Deis: 9/10. Joins overleveled (if stats are iffy for the level), and lots of magic! Her + Nina = things die.
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 4/10. Filler.
Glenn: 7/10. Late game physical is actually strong enough to make up for his magic stat, and X-strike is a cruel duel tech that's gotten really fast.
Razzly: 4/10. Competent Mage, but split-path on the clear worse path docks her a point.
Sprigg: 2/10. Crap; ditch her the instant you get someone better.
Radius: 4/10. Competent Filler.
Van: 4/10. Competent filler.
Karsh: 7/10. Oh hey look, a High Strength Axeman, we haven't seen that before, he clearly won't be...wait, is that a GOOD magic stat and non-fail speed? Holy shit! Yeah, Karsh is awesome.
Turnip: 1/10. Gotten late, and in Chrono Cross, Gotten late translates to "Why the fuck would I use him ever?" cause they're gotten after people like Karsh.
-
I remember being a kid thinking how cool it was that you got a bunch of boss characters in your party like Karsh and Zoah. Now my thoughts are "Why didn't we get Solt and Peppor!?"
-
I remember being a kid thinking how cool it was that you got a bunch of boss characters in your party like Karsh and Zoah. Now my thoughts are "Why didn't we get Solt and Peppor!?"
Ain't like CC doesn't already have tons of filler characters anyway. Hi starky.
-
Even as trope-y as they are, Solt and Peppor have more personality (or more quantifiably, dialog) than over half of the cast of CC.
-
Legend of Legaia:
Vahn: 6.13
Noa: 7.74
Gala: 4.47
Breath of Fire 2:
Ryu Bateson: 8.00
Bosche "Bow" Doggie: 5.35
Rinpoo "Katt" Chuan: 6.22
Rand Marks: 5.19
Nina Wyndia: 6.75
Sten Legacy: 3.48
Ekaru Hoppa De Pe Jean: 2.21
Aspara "Spar" Gus: 2.97
Deis: 9.11
Chrono Cross Green Innates:
Neo Fio: 2.81
Glenn: 6.70
Razzly: 4.17
Sprigg: 3.50
Radius: 3.67
Van: 2.89
Karsh: 6.75
Turnip: 1.88
Best Rating of this Session: Deis w/ 9.11
Worst Rating of this Session: Turnip w/ 1.88
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
5. Haar (FE10) 9.17
6t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
6t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
8. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
9. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
10. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
I want to whine about something...but I can't...screw you all :(
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig:
Nicholai Conrad:
Yuri Hyuga:
Gepetto:
Blanca:
Joachim Valentine:
Lucia:
Anastasia Romanov:
Kurando Inugami:
Ouka:
Raiden:
Hien:
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul:
Mel:
Norris:
Funguy:
Sneff:
Zoah:
Viper:
Leah:
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 6/10. Balanced niche coverage and Geuschbenst is great on combos. Not much else, but it's good enough for an above average score.
Nicholai Conrad: DNR.
Yuri Hyuga: 9.5/10. Even godlier than SH1 later on. Not as good early, but he covers -everything- once again, and does it earlier than anyone else. The free combo whoring with right positioning also mauls things even further, and let's not talk about stuff like Amon or Seraphic Radiance.
Gepetto: 3/10. Oh wow. Crappy personal skills, crappy stats. No real point to using him, he's pretty much Zhuzhen with an even poorer skillset.
Blanca: 5/10. The speed is nice, but the uniques worth noting are insanely late and his offense stats sorta don't pan out too well. Blanca needed better magic. Pretty average in practice.
Joachim Valentine: 5/10. Speed needs work, durability is okay, so is comboing. The crappy magic doesn't inspire me, though, magic is the most efficient way to deal with randoms as is due to crowd control and Joa is the worst at it. Joachythms honestly feel not worth hyping at all.
Lucia: 4/10? I'unno, the oils are -amazing- in theory, but in practice, they're not worth the trouble very often and Lucia's stats don't work very well for randombusting. She's not terrible, but certainly didn't find myself inspired.
Anastasia Romanov: 5.5/10. Best mage? Says so little, but I'm giving an extra half-point for Snapshot and another half-point for Ana getting stronger unique combo tools than the other mages.
Kurando Inugami: 8/10. One dungeon of sucking, then smashes shit. Not being as versatile as Yuri is his only true flaw, but the stat dominance and strong stats for both types of fighting just go places.
Ouka: DNR.
Raiden: DNR.
Hien: DNR.
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: 4/10. Uh she's okay early.
Mel: 1/10. Worthless.
Norris: 6/10. He's pretty okay. Both his magic and physical were solid, from what I remember. Nothing really awesome, but.
Funguy: 3/10. Eh pure fighter.
Sneff: 2/10. Eeeeeeeeeeew.
Zoah: 4/10. Good fighter stats, but still pure fighter. Magic in CC be important.
Viper: eh who cares 4/10.
Leah: 4/10. Zoah.
-
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: Stop me if you've heard this one before. 3/10
Mel: Abstain.
Norris: Don't recall his magic being that good, really. Decent enough but it's CC, even if he had good magic I'd be hard-pressed to care. 3.5/10
Funguy: CC filler. 3/10
Sneff: Bad. 2/10
Zoah: Eh Karsh is better. 3.5/10
Viper: Abstain.
Leah: Gamebest HP or something. 3/10
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 6.5/10 - Not as bad as I previously thought but still not a big fan. Prefer Blanca as my hybrid >_>
Nicholai Conrad: 3.5/10 - Could have been the game's Alice =-( Rawr Berserk Nicholai and Divine Light *^_^*
Yuri Hyuga: 9.5/10
Gepetto: 4.5/10
Blanca: 7/10 - Personally find him the better of the two "hybrids"
Joachim Valentine: 7.5/10 - Gold Bat and Great Q potential? Supposedly the third best character or something.
Lucia: 7/10 - Not as worthwhile as I once thought due to the game being easy regardless/alternative options but eh still inclined to give character skill sets slightly more credit than generics like crests/materia/etc. More or less interchangable with Ana as your mage once Snaps are done with. Lu has game best special defence (fusion hax aside)/higher MP, Ana has better HP, speed is more or less the same with RNG deciding who goes first. Besides I'll always have a soft spot for Lucia for one shotting the Dog Shrine boss with the Chariot card >.> The World, Tower, Strength and Emperor are good too but yeah can't justify a higher score for tarot card hype due to it being random. Think it's possible to build a more personalised deck though by only picking up certain cards but yeah.
Anastasia Romanov: 7/10
Kurando Inugami: 8.5/10 - Turn order Jutendouji, Jutendouji, Jutendouji, etc.
Ouka: Abstain. Hell if I remember.
Raiden: ^^
Hien: ^^
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: 4.5/10
Mel: Abstain.
Norris: 6/10
Funguy: Abstain.
Sneff: Abstain.
Zoah: 5/10
Viper: Abstain.
Leah: 5/10
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 7/10. Getting lots of hits makes her awesome, and she's serviceable for random smash.
Nicholai Conrad: Abstain.
Yuri Hyuga: 9/10. I think Yuri 2 is quite overrated, actually. He is behind other PCs in getting some crucial spells, namely the Arc spells which break the game open. However, that's about the only thing he does wrong.
Gepetto: 2/10. Bad durability and bad speed, awesome. No real skillset goodness either.
Blanca: 3/10. At least he's fast. He could uh cast Gathering or something, I never got it though.
Joachim Valentine: 5/10. Okay physical slugger type.
Lucia: 5/10. Quite excellent on paper, but it might be overkill.. eh. Giving her a fairly neutral score.
Anastasia Romanov: 5/10. I liked her more than Lucia for Snap. Otherwise she has better statz but worse skillz. For now I'll assume this balances in the sissy slapfight for party mage.
Kurando Inugami: 8/10. Integers only, yo. Kurando is stronger and faster than almost anyone, which is terrific, but the skillset variety lacks.
Ouka: Abstain.
Raiden: yup
Hien: uh huh
CC yellow is a sea of mediocrity BY CHRONO CROSS STANDARDS and I refuse to rate it.
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig:6/10.
Nicholai Conrad: DNR
Yuri Hyuga: 9.5/10
Gepetto: 3/10
Blanca: 4/10
Joachim Valentine: 6/10
Lucia: 2/10
Anastasia Romanov: 5/10
Kurando Inugami: 8/10
Ouka: DNR
Raiden: DNR
Hien: DNR
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 6/10.
Nicholai Conrad: DNR.
Yuri Hyuga: ... hm. 9/10. There are times I regret not using half points, since 9 isn't quite right but 8 doesn't do him justice either.
Gepetto: 3/10. Usable enough while you don't have better people, but no compelling reason to use him when you get more PCs.
Blanca: 3/10. Same as above.
Joachim Valentine: 6/10.
Lucia: 4/10. Her buffs seem gratuitous on top of the already awesome generic buffs (ie by the time you set both up, the enemy is dead), and she doesn't really bring anything else to the table.
Anastasia Romanov: 6/10. Snapshot. Her skillset has some neat things in there, but naturally you instead spend three quarters of the game with nothing but her initial spell. Awesome.
Kurando Inugami: 8/10
Ouka: DNR
Raiden: DNR
Hien: DNR
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: ... damn. 4/10. Inflated, but you can get her for two dungeons when you otherwise don't have 3 PCs. That does feel worth a point.
Mel: 2/10. Stealing might have salvaged her some... if you didn't ALWAYS have Kid or Fargo in the party when she was around. And they're actual competent PCs on top of that.
Norris: 5/10. Well, he's better than Radius at least. Good enough for filler until you get Karsh.
Funguy: 4/10? He's basically Zappa with better all around stats, but for the life of me I can't remember when he's available.
Sneff: 3/10. Pretty bad, but there's worse. Like Mel.
Zoah: 3/10. Hum. The non-agility stats are fine, but honestly Yellow is inferior to Green (and in this case, Zoah <<< Karsh) so.
Viper: 3/10. His techs are different, but again a low agl Yellow.
Leah:
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 6/10 - Did whatever you needed her to, got lots of hits, never felt like a liability.
Yuri Hyuga: 9/10 - What more needs be said? The MAN. Only weakness is not getting the Arc spells, yeah.
Gepetto: 3/10 - Theoretically still usable later if you really keep track of elemental weaknesses and equip the doll with the right element for the area. But screw that when you have easier ways to rock.
Blanca: 4/10 - Uh also theoretically usable, but I didn't find quite all the Wolf Bouts as fast as I could have, and see what others said about some of the best ones being quite late. That and he's a fighter-mage, a role which Karin kind of already takes.
Joachim Valentine: 6/10 - Good beatdown. Magic rocks in SH2 but you've got a 4 person party, Joachim delivers the physical pain if you want it.
Lucia: 5/10 - Lucia's fine. Problem is that abusing her tarot cards makes the game a little TOO easy and also too wonky, and the effect of the oils can be replicated by the Arc buffs. So she's more of a vanilla mage in effect, who can randomly crush the game if you feel like going nuts on tarot cards, but this is like hyping Cait Sith in FF7 - you don't NEED it.
Anastasia Romanov: 6/10. A bit frail but the best mage, and getting her unique stuff isn't much of a hassle comparatively - just stick her in the arena ASAP so she can collect magic from the old bosses, then always have her in the party if you intend to use her. Also Snapshot hype.
Kurando Inugami: 8/10 - Jutendoji is aftergame to me - I certainly beat Kato without it - but it's super-broken and renders Joachim obsolete. But even still Tsukiyomi is fine, status curing + healing is always nice, even if it eats SP like crazy.
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Norris: 6/10 - Norris was actually good. Decent fighter-mage which is what you want.
Viper: 3/10 - Viper was not. Had low AGL IIRC.
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 6/10. Decent overall, but nothing spectacular.
Nicholai Conrad: DNR. Not around for nearly long enough.
Yuri Hyuga: 9/10. He felt consistently great, but nothing OMG!!! until end game, when he got Seraphic Radiance.
Gepetto: 4/10. Mage with nothing special.
Blanca: 6/10. Karin variation.
Joachim Valentine: 6.5/10. Solid enough tank who randomly gets absurd power ups that give him that extra half a point.
Lucia: 5/10. The Aromatherapy are cool.
Anastasia Romanov: 4/10. Camera. Not much else.
Kurando Inugami: 8/10. Yuri- for the most part; this isn't really much of an insult of course.
Ouka: DNR. Yeah, no.
Raiden: DNR. Uh Huh.
Hien: DNR. Yeah, I just put these 3 (and Nicolai) on there before someone sniped at me for forgetting them. And no, I won't be like this for certain games that have TOO MANY GENERIC TEMPS, so don't worry.
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: 3.5/10. Half a point for being a free early PC when no one else is available. Otherwise, kind of crappy.
Mel: 2/10. Never a reason to use her over Kid or Fargo, and she's bad at like everything else. Furthermore, you only get her on a route that misses out on actually good characters.
Norris: 5/10. Adequate filler. Being able to use Starky's Plasma Gun gives him a nice strong weapon earlier than most.
Funguy: 4/10. Less adequate filler.
Sneff: 2/10. Crappy.
Zoah: 5/10. Slow, but he's solid enough otherwise, and he even has a dual tech with Karsh which is cool or something (though not largely relevant.)
Viper: 5/10. Viper's Venom is a nice strong weapon gotten when he joins and I seem to recall he was passable enough otherwise.
Leah: 4/10. Game best HP and Strength is something! Its not enough though.
-
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 5.5/10 - I almost forgot to rank her because I started from 'Main Character=Yuri' and worked down the list from there. She's solid, and always around, so she's a bit above average.
Nicholai Conrad: DNR
Yuri Hyuga: 9.5 - It's Yuri, if Yuri1 is a 10, then Yuri2 is a 9.5.
Gepetto: 3.5/10 - Usable, but cast-worst. Good as a warm body early on.
Blanca: 4 - Good warm body, better than Gepetto.
Joachim Valentine: 7 - consistently useful, fairly unique niche in a game full of mages!
Lucia: 7 - Aromatherapy hype.
Anastasia Romanov: 5 - Snapshot + better mage than Blanca/Gepetto, but gotten much later so no warm body hype.
Kurando Inugami: 7 - Yuri-lite is pretty awesome, but I feel like he's just another mage in practice.
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: 4 - Ugh. Warm body hype.
Mel: 2.5 - Having a second chance to steal is useful I suppose.
Norris: 5.5 - Joins early in Lynx's party, and has great stats throughout the game and good weapon access. Pretty much the best Yellow-innate in the game for me, and get Warm body hype... in Chrono Cross!
Funguy: 2.5 - Err... if you want to use it, you can.
Sneff: 1 - Pretty much my idea of gameworst character.
Zoah: 4.5 - Good stats, but hurt by Norris' existence. Dual Tech with Karsh is worth a half-point.
Viper: 4 - Very usable, good weapon, had a Dual tech IIRC? Hurt by Norris and Zoah's existence, though.
Leah: 3.5 - See above, not to mention being a late-joiner. Has a decent Dual tech, but it's with -Draggy-. Gamebest HP and Strength just doesn't save her in a game like CC.
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Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: 6.19
Nicholai Conrad: N/A
Yuri Hyuga: 9.25
Gepetto: 3.25
Blanca: 4.50
Joachim Valentine: 6.13
Lucia: 4.88
Anastasia Romanov: 5.44
Kurando Inugami: 7.94
Ouka: N/A
Raiden: N/A
Hien: N/A
Chrono Cross Yellow Innates:
Poshul: 3.83
Mel: N/A
Norris: 5.29
Funguy: 3.30
Sneff: 2.00
Zoah: 4.17
Viper: 3.80
Leah: 3.90
Best Rating of this Session: Yuri w/ 9.25
Worst Rating of this Session: Sneff with 2.00
Ouka, Hien, Raiden and Nicolai all get DNRed due to majority consent. Mel gets a DNR due to lack of sufficient votes by my standards.
Given Mel is the first one to be this way, if there's really a strong call about a rerating for some character to get an actual rating on them, speak up and maybe I'll add them as an FW in a later session. Somehow, I get the feeling this won't happen <_<
Top 10 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
5. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
6. Haar (FE10) 9.17
7t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
7t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
9. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
Top 10 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
5. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
6. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
7. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
8. Garret (FE6) 1.36
9. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
10. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
Moving on, cause you guys seem to lack motivation to vote, I'm gonna do something that's gonna make you guys ALMOST CARE!!!
Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve:
Delita Hyral:
Algus Sadalfas:
Agrias Oaks:
Gaff Gafgarion:
Ovelia Akatscha:
Mustadio Bunanza:
Alma Beoulve:
Olan Durai:
Rafa Galthana:
Malak Galthana:
Beowulf Kadmus:
Reis Dular:
Worker 8:
Cidoflas Orlandu:
Meliadoul Tingel:
Zalbag Beoulve:
Cloud Strife:
Byblos:
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo:
Guile:
Luccia:
Harle:
Grobyc:
Skelly:
Regarding WotL:
I left them out cause some of the other PCs (Meliadoul comes to mind) change dramatically based off it due to "subtle" changes and what not, hence why Luso and Balthier are not on the list. We'll rate them later if people care enough.
And yes, I did put just about every Guest I could think of that isn't a generic, cause I hate you all <_<
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Can I just rate Mel so she can have enough votes?
Mel- 3/10 She has the best magic of any Yellow inate *is shot*
Mojo: 4/10 Evade
Guile: 6/10 Mage, but weird grid
Luccia: 1/10 fail
Harle: 8/10 just is too good for the time you have her
Grobyc: 7/10
Skelly 2/10 better than Luccia.
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Wait, are we ranking WotL or original FFT or what?
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: 1/10. Hilariously bad offensive stats. EVADE as if anything worth noting in CC checked physical evade, his durability is bad in practice.
Guile: 5/10. Decent early filler. Hate that grid, but he had some undeniable use.
Luccia: 2/10. Whatever.
Harle: 7/10. Good overall stats at a time when you were starved for worthwhile PCs. EDIT: Whoops, totally not an 8 though.
Grobyc: 4/10. Fighter in CC. Eh.
Skelly: 6/10. Best magic stat of any black besides Guile, and didn't have the grid of fail + physicals failed less. Worth an extra point to me anyway. Plus it's Skelly, he's awesome.
-
FFTo.
EDIT: BONUS ROUND OF LFT GENERICS GOGOGO
-
DNR all temps. They're relevant to SCC strategies but eh.
Ramza Beoulve: 9/10. Female/male hybrid makes him the best at everything, lacks the other special PCs' problem of joining underskilled, too.
Agrias Oaks: 6.5/10. Decent actually (Holy Sword is pretty cool), but Holy Knight itself is a big drawback.
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10. A worse choice than a generic, but not dramatically.
Rafa Galthana: 1.5/10. Awful.
Malak Galthana: 1/10. Somehow worse.
Beowulf Kadmus: 6/10. Okay, has some niches over the generics he replaces (knight sword use on a better class than knight, mostly, though decent accuracy/no CT on his oracle skills isn't bad).
Reis Dular: 2/10. Pretty bad, though if you wait long enough the stats do start to matter more than the lack of skills, so she's better than the twins.
Worker 8: 6/10. Spoils some plot fights nicely.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8/10. Pretty good stuff, has basically everything he needs to excel and only the skill deficit compared to pre-C4 PCs holds him back.
Meliadoul Tingel: 2/10. Orlandu with the worst of the three sword sets only, worse stats, and joining later. BUT HEY, PERFUMES. So she's not a 1.
Cloud Strife: 2.5/10. I think Finish Touch is a cool enough niche to get him above the other "no real use" PCs but grah Level 1.
Byblos: Don't care.
-
Wait, are we ranking WotL or original FFT or what?
Original. You'll notice I left off Balthier and Luso, thought I made myself clear, sorry for confusion.
I was gonna toss them on, but then realized stuff like "Wait, Meliadoul's Divine Sword Skills function differently" in WotL and well, yeah. Might do what I did for FF4a in the previous topic, where we rank the game, then come back and rank characters who have notable changes between the two versions, as well as new additions, but...eh, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, and really, I don't think there's THAT much call for it.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: He does pretty much anything well and has a couple unique things going for him, but I can't justify higher than an 8/10.
Delita Hyral: Abstain
Algus Sadalfas: Abstain
Agrias Oaks: Holy Sword is a cool skillset. Too bad about her class not having the PA to carry that well. 7/10
Gaff Gafgarion: Abstain
Ovelia Akatscha: Abstain
Mustadio Bunanza: uh SNIPE. 4/10
Alma Beoulve: Abstain
Olan Durai: Abstain
Rafa Galthana: Lategame twink bait with a randotargetting skillset awww yeah. 1/10
Malak Galthana: WHOO REVERSE FAITH DAMAGE THIS IS TOTALLY AWESOME. No. 0.5/10
Beowulf Kadmus: Whoring with no charge time is cool. 6/10
Reis Dular: Whoo lategame twink bait. 1/10
Worker 8: Don't care
Cidoflas Orlandu: Is Cid. 8/10
Meliadoul Tingel: omg MIGHTY SWORD. 2/10
Zalbag Beoulve: Abstain
Cloud Strife: Don't care
Byblos: No.
Chrono Cross Black Innates: ugh cc black innates blanket abstention
Mojo:
Guile:
Luccia:
Harle:
Grobyc:
Skelly:
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8/10.
Delita Hyral: KILLS ZALMO/10, Sexy/10, I refuse to DNR Delita/10
Algus Sadalfas: DNR
Agrias Oaks: 6.5/10. Decent skillset, terrible stats.
Gaff Gafgarion: DNR
Ovelia Akatscha: DNR
Mustadio Bunanza: 6/10. Kinda like Agrias. Works well as a Chemist.
Alma Beoulve: DNR
Olan Durai: DNR
Rafa Galthana: 1/10. She is like... ugh. Either you can make her into a generic (except way worse) or her uh own skillset of badness.
Malak Galthana: 0.5/10. Rafa minus minus.
Beowulf Kadmus: 6/10. Good enough while around.
Reis Dular: 1.5/10. Bleh.
Worker 8: 6/10. Not bad!
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8.5/10.
Meliadoul Tingel: 1.5/10.
Zalbag Beoulve: DNR
Cloud Strife: Um, Cloud's kinda good if you level him. If if if. 1.5/10
Byblos: 3/10?
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8/10.
Delita Hyral: KILLS ZALMO/10, Sexy/10, I refuse to DNR Delita/10
Algus Sadalfas: DNR
Agrias Oaks: 7/10. Decent skillset, terrible stats.
Gaff Gafgarion: DNR
Ovelia Akatscha: DNR
Mustadio Bunanza: 6/10. Kinda like Agrias. Works well as a Chemist.
Alma Beoulve: DNR
Olan Durai: DNR
Rafa Galthana: 1/10. She is like... ugh. Either you can make her into a generic (except way worse) or her uh own skillset of badness.
Malak Galthana: 0.5/10. Rafa minus minus.
Beowulf Kadmus: 7/10. Good enough while around.
Reis Dular: 1.5/10. Bleh.
Worker 8: 6/10. Not bad!
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8.5/10.
Meliadoul Tingel: 1.5/10.
Zalbag Beoulve: DNR
Cloud Strife: Um, Cloud's kinda good if you level him. If if if. 1.5/10
Byblos: 0.5/10
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Ramza Beoulve: 9.5/10. Mm..same thought as the old topic. The mix of PA/MA is just too good and makes Ramza incredibly versatile. Not to mention Zodiac sign choice and earliest on the job development tree makes this easy. Plus True Squire is a decent, albeit not amazing class carrier.
Delita Hyral: 8/10. Delita's pretty solid and yes, I'm actually ranking him as a temp because he's around for a whole damn chapter >_>! Anyway, good PA and obviously needed on some SCCs and some time to actually develop abilities makes him solid.
Algus Sadalfas: Fail/10 (DNR)
Agrias Oaks: 7/10. Holy Sword is indeed pretty cool. She can swap over to a decent class to carry the skills, but that doesn't stop Holy Knight class (hers anyway) from being trashy for having too low PA and mehish equip options
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10. Pretty cool starting out, gets pretty meh to average towards the end.
Rafa Galthana: 1/10. Sucks.
Malak Galthana: 0.5/10. Somehow sucks worse.
Beowulf Kadmus: 7.5/10. Also pretty cool. No charge time for no GT, but some unique skills and he's great for when you need to stall out battles or JP farm.
Reis Dular: 3/10. Dragon form's usable to some extent. Human Reis isn't bad, but impractical with some decent rewards I guess.
Worker 8: 6/10. His abilities give him some unique niche uses, which are important. Also, you can use him as a footstool!
Cidoflas Orlandu: 9/10. Opinion went down slightly. He's still really really good. But no job development does knock him back a notch. Otherwise, its Orlandu. Self explanatory
Meliadoul Tingel: 2/10. Outshadowed by Orlandu in skills and damage, outshadowed by Agrias in job development. But but but spears. No.
Cloud Strife: 1.5/10. Like Reis. Not terrible when levelled up, but highly impractical because of it. Less decent rewards (I...think Finish Touch was the only worthwhile skill) takes him down a point or so.
Byblos: 1/10. Ew. Comes way too late to matter. And isn't as cool as Worker 8 anyway.
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: 0.5/10. Offensive Suck.
Guile: 5/10. Decent mage. Reverse grid is terrible (ew needing to physical multiple times) and bad stamina are not a good combo though.
Luccia: 1/10. Suck.
Harle: 7/10. Pretty cool. Strong stats, being a good fighter and mage, gains her level 7 tech very early. Yeah.
Grobyc: 4/10. He's not bad, but I really can't think of a case to use him. Especially since his magic is eeeeeeeeh and there's a couple of other decent fighters who can double as mages anyway.
Skelly: 4/10. Also not bad. His problem though is that he requires to collect his bones, which can be somewhat of a turnoff (especially since he's not particularly stronger than anyone else either). Solid otherwise.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 9/10
Delita Hyral:
Algus Sadalfas:
Agrias Oaks: 7/10
Gaff Gafgarion:
Ovelia Akatscha:
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10
Alma Beoulve:
Olan Durai:
Rafa Galthana: 6/10
Malak Galthana: 4/10
Beowulf Kadmus: 7.5/10
Reis Dular: 5/10
Worker 8: 5/10
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8/10
Meliadoul Tingel: 5/10
Zalbag Beoulve:
Cloud Strife: 1/10
Byblos: 1/10
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 9/10. Can easily do whatever you need him to do, and generally better then anyone else will.
Delita Hyral: DNR
Algus Sadalfas: DNR
Agrias Oaks: 7.5/10. She's amazing when you first get her, but does feel like she drops off later.
Gaff Gafgarion: DNR
Ovelia Akatscha: DNR
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10. Eh, I like Musty so I want to give him more. Snipe is often useful enough and he makes a fine chemist, but...yeah.
Alma Beoulve: DNR
Olan Durai: DNR
Rafa Galthana: 2/10. Uh, good for Move-Find Item? I dunno.
Malak Galthana: 1/10. Man, I want to like these two. The skillset I find nifty, and especially Malak's gimmick of hitting reverse faith. But there's just no pretending it's good. Or even decent. The wonder twins need
Beowulf Kadmus: 6/10. Feels better then Agrias late, but joins so late I'm not going to give him even the same score as her, much less a higher one.
Reis Dular: 3/10. I remember getting some use out of her, but hell if I remember how.
Worker 8: 6/10. Worker is fairly good stuff, despite his limitations.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 9/10. Splaaaaat. Late join costs him that last point.
Meliadoul Tingel: 3/10. Same score as Reis sounds about right?
Zalbag Beoulve: DNR
Cloud Strife: 2/10. Too low level, too late. And having a neat skillset that requires gimping him to use(yay low power Materia Blade) is more annoying then just having a bad skillset.
Byblos: In this case, DNR stands for Do Not Remember.
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: 2/10. Gets a point for being amusing to use in battle. Hey, that's In Game Use!
Guile: 5/10. Yeah the grid is bad, but his stats back it up I think. 3 way splitpath though, costs him the 6.
Luccia: 2/10. Don't remember ever getting any decent use out of her.
Harle: 6/10. Really good! Then she leaves. For parts you could have really used her for.
Grobyc: 5/10. Eh, does the job well enough, nothing standout either way.
Skelly: 5/10. See above.
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Ramza Beoulve: 9/10
Delita Hyral: 5/10
Algus Sadalfas: 3/10
Agrias Oaks: 7/10
Overshadowed by Orlandu, and Swordskills aren't as useful as spell-nuking and certain other skillsets either despite the damage.
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10
Sniping is great in FFT, but an Oracle with Equip Gun is loads better.
Rafa Galthana: 2/10
Good for Deep Dungeon
Malak Galthana: 1/10
Yeah, total failure here
Beowulf Kadmus: 8/10
Magic Sword is insane
Reis Dular: 5/10
She's just an average unit in the end, nothing a Ninja can't do better.
Worker 8: 6/10
Completely unnecessary but he is very powerful for sure. Hard to fit in teams.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 10/10
Comes with everything he needs with no extra effort, and becomes even better WITH extra effort
Meliadoul Tingel: 5/10
Solid as any generic, but Orlandu is better
Cloud Strife: 2/10
Impractical but Limit is pretty good if you take the time
Byblos: 2/10
I can't deny that his attacks are awesome against Zodiacs, but other than that he isn't special and takes a long time to get
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: Abstain
Guile: 8/10
One of the better characters in the game. Easy to get, basically the best path to take anyway. Rods hit all enemies on the third strike, so Eagle Eye combos are great. His element grid is limited but you don't actually NEED all of those slots in this game so I don't care.
Luccia: 1/10
Harle: Abstain
Grobyc: Abstain
Skelly: Abstain
Guess which Black character I stuck with
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 6 - Good stats, always around. Starts out kinda bad, but pretty much always ends up one of your best units. Wouldn't really consider him any more game-breaking than your usual RPG main, though.
Agrias Oaks: 5 - Average - stats don't stand out, but good for when she joins, tapers off later.
Mustadio Bunanza: 4 - Kinda bad, even when he joins. Guns are a nifty option though.
Olan Durai: 10/10 forever
Rafa Galthana: 2 - Terrible.
Malak Galthana: 1.5 - Worse.
Beowulf Kadmus: 4.5 - Joins too late to score as high as Agrias.
Reis Dular: 3.5 - Joins late and isn't as good as Beowulf.
Worker 8: 6 - Magic immunity is nifty spoiling.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8.5 - Gamebreaking without any effort, stands out far more than Ramza IMO.
Meliadoul Tingel: 5 - Because she's pretty good in a vaccuum, but Agrias and Cid kind of exist.
Cloud Strife: 4 - About as good as Beowulf, but joins even later.
Byblos: ...uh, don't think I ever got him?
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: 4 - Points for being a warm body when your only options are Poshul and Leena.
Guile: 3.5 - Good stats, but that element grid pisses me off. Also, splitpath.
Luccia: 2 - Terrible in every way?
Harle: 6.5 - Great for when you have her. This is how to do temps.
Grobyc: 3.5 - Good physical stats, terrible typing for when he joins.
Skelly: 3 - Joins way too late to matter (I don't think you can get the last bone until after you're Serge again?), but hey, better than Luccia!
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs (Disclaimer: as before, basing my scores here on limited-twinking playthroughs, because I remember those best)
Ramza Beoulve: 6/10. Yell is pretty cool as a trick, and the wide equip selection is good. Still, he can handle himself pretty well but lacks oomph since the base Squire skills are a waste of space.
Delita Hyral: 4/10. Good filler, but no more than that.
Algus Sadalfas: DNR.
Agrias Oaks: 5/10. Swordskills rock, but Agrias herself isn't very good and over time she's just too slow/immobile to keep up as a productive team member.
Gaff Gafgarion: DNR.
Ovelia Akatscha: DNR.
Mustadio Bunanza: 4/10. Not so bad. Not a great long-term investment, but definitely has his niche.
Alma Beoulve: DNR.
Olan Durai: DNR.
Rafa Galthana: 3/10. Not worth it, but you CAN set her up some devastating damage at least.
Malak Galthana: 2/10.
Beowulf Kadmus: 6/10. Shock! can be surprisingly useful, and you can't argue the power of Break or the like.
Reis Dular: 3/10. You should really be better than generic filler at this stage, so sure, worse than Musty.
Worker 8: 7/10. Dispose is pretty badass.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8/10. And this is why the lategame isn't hard.
Meliadoul Tingel: 4/10. Even if the endgame had mostly break-able enemies, she'd suffer in the same way as Agrias. So.
Zalbag Beoulve: DNR.
Cloud Strife: 4/10. Not really so astounding as to justify the effort, but you DO get a pretty good package for it (he'd be like a 7 or so with equal levels I think? That range.)
Byblos: Abstain.
Chrono Cross Black Innates (Being Black innate is always a disadvantage except for, uh, one major (skipable!) boss in the game and maaaaaybe Dario, since you're always using a Black or White at all times. Nevermind the silly "half our elements are bad ID")
Mojo: 2/10.
Guile: 1/10.
Luccia: 2/10.
Harle: 6/10. And yet, Harle is just that good.
Grobyc: 3/10. Servicable until his bad choices in innates.
Skelly: 2/10.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8/10. I'm not convinced "good stats" is enough to make Ramza a 9/10. Also, Scream / Yell based strategies generally felt "cheesy" to me, even if they are undoubtedly effective on some maps. That said Cheer Up means you can screw with Brave without needing a Mediator, and Ramza does make a great Fighter - Mage. So yeah, a solid 8 for sure.
Agrias Oaks: 7/10. Evade-ignoring group damage that doesn't require MP. Badass and notably better than your average generic physical options.
Mustadio Bunanza: 4/10. Not unusable but the snipe stuff is just too unreliable and his stats are unremarkable. Okay on the undead-heavy maps at least.
Rafa Galthana: 1.5/10. Has low Brave, can be used in the Deep Dungeon for treasure farming.
Malak Galthana: 1/10. WTF. As Dark Holy Elf has pointed out elsewhere his niche literally never comes up in game. So, uhhh, yeah.
Beowulf Kadmus: 5/10. Gotten so late, and semi-obscurely (I usually do Colliery only after the trip to Murond means you're next door to Goug anyway) that it's hard to rate. But Chicken Blade and status are pretty neat for a physical Oracle.
Reis Dular: 3/10. Uh good HP for sticking her into other classes?!
Worker 8: 2/10. Raise has a 0% hit chance? Hate.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 9/10. Uh Cid breaks the game and even when he doesn't break the game he hands you a cool Excalibur. He's fine even if you don't bother to train him up in other classes! Sillily good.
Meliadoul Tingel: 5/10. Equipment breaking is fine - you do still fight a fair number of characters with equipment so she's helpful even for stuff like breaking Balk's gun - but yeah, it's late to train up a new character.
Cloud Strife: 3/10. Level 1 WTF. Is this hacked to something sensible in LFT, by the way? Okay perhaps without the horrible horrible level lag.
Byblos: DNR. Boco is more rankable.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 7.5/10
Delita Hyral: 5/10
Algus Sadalfas: 3/10
Agrias Oaks: 6.5/10
Gaff Gafgarion: 4/10
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10
Alma Beoulve: Abstain
Olan Durai: Abstain
Rafa Galthana: Abstain
Malak Galthana: Abstain
Beowulf Kadmus: 5.5/10
Reis Dular: Abstain
Worker 8: Abstain
Cidoflas Orlandu: 9/10
Meliadoul Tingel: Abstain
Zalbag Beoulve: Abstain.
Cloud Strife: Abstain
Byblos: Abstain (Who)
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: Abstain
Guile: 4.5/10
Luccia: Abstain
Harle: 6.5/10
Grobyc: 4/10
Skelly: Abstain
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Final Fantasy Tactics (Not War of the Lions if we're supposed to vote on the original why is this even here) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8/10 Best and most consistent character by default, requires no twinking whatsoever, will always be good though not super amazing.
Agrias Oaks: 7.5/10 Evade-ignoring group damage that doesn't require MP. Badass and notably better than your average generic physical options. (Sorry Snow!) Also, joins at the right time to enter as your fifth, and is generally highly convenient and easy to pick up and use. (Certainly more than grinding someone to Concentrate in vanilla. Ew, vanilla Archer. Ew, using the support slot in vanilla.)
Mustadio Bunanza: 7/10 Also joins at the right time and fills a convenient niche. I give him a lot of credit for Arm Aim, long range disable means he always has something productive to do and otherwise can stand as your Chemist. Objectively he's not much better than a generic, but he's handed to you on a platter and convenience counts a lot for me in terms of "in game use".
Rafa Galthana: 1/10 Joins too late, is useless
Malak Galthana: 0/10 Joins too late, is more useless
Beowulf Kadmus: 5/10 Joins too late, is useful out of the box but by now you probably have a team you're comfortable with, so he replaces in average at best.
Reis Dular: 2/10 Useful if messing with monsters a lot?
Worker 8: 6/10 Joins late but can easily replace a PC and be useful/better than they were.
Cidolfas Orlandu: 9/10 Spell his name right. Needs no introduction or explanation. Not 10/10 good though. You can still lose with him. It's hard but you can.
Meliadoul Tingel: 2/10 possibly can do something in a fight but no.
Cloud Strife: 0/10 No. By the time you have him and make him usable there's no way you could actually need him for anything.
Byblos: 0/10 Hahahahaahahahaha.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (Not War of the Lions if we're supposed to vote on the original why is this even here) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8/10 Best and most consistent character by default, requires no twinking whatsoever, will always be good though not super amazing.
Agrias Oaks: 7.5/10 Evade-ignoring group damage that doesn't require MP. Badass and notably better than your average generic physical options. (Sorry Snow!) Also, joins at the right time to enter as your fifth, and is generally highly convenient and easy to pick up and use. (Certainly more than grinding someone to Concentrate in vanilla. Ew, vanilla Archer. Ew, using the support slot in vanilla.)
Mustadio Bunanza: 7/10 Also joins at the right time and fills a convenient niche. I give him a lot of credit for Arm Aim, long range disable means he always has something productive to do and otherwise can stand as your Chemist. Objectively he's not much better than a generic, but he's handed to you on a platter and convenience counts a lot for me in terms of "in game use".
Rafa Galthana: 1/10 Joins too late, is useless
Malak Galthana: 0/10 Joins too late, is more useless
Beowulf Kadmus: 5/10 Joins too late, is useful out of the box but by now you probably have a team you're comfortable with, so he replaces in average at best.
Reis Dular: 2/10 Useful if messing with monsters a lot?
Worker 8: 6/10 Joins late but can easily replace a PC and be useful/better than they were.
Cidolfas Orlandu: 9/10 Spell his name right. Needs no introduction or explanation. Not 10/10 good though. You can still lose with him. It's hard but you can.
Meliadoul Tingel: 2/10 possibly can do something in a fight but no.
Cloud Strife: 0/10 No. By the time you have him and make him usable there's no way you could actually need him for anything.
Byblos: 0/10 Hahahahaahahahaha.
This works.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8.5/10. Yeah, text book example of a well rounded, but not-broken PC.
Delita Hyral: 6/10. Good Chapter 1 support; he's an extra PC as far as I'm concerned for a good deal of chapters
Algus Sadalfas: 4/10. Meanwhile, he actually makes you use 4 PCs instead of 5, so I feel he's notably worse; also aronud less.
Agrias Oaks: 7/10. Joins early enough that Generics don't have too firm of an advantage, and Holy Sword is good. Being female is double edged for her; on one hand, yay Perfumes! On the otherhand, boo PA.
Gaff Gafgarion: DNR. Yeah, not around long enough to care.
Ovelia Akatscha: DNR. ...so what's that say about her?
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10. Not bad, but honestly doesn't feel worth using over a generic the way Agrias is, for all that he joins early enough to be salvageable.
Alma Beoulve: DNR. Ovelia with slightly more usage! ...yeah no.
Olan Durai: DNR. ONE FIGHT AWWW YEAH!
Rafa Galthana: 2/10. Low Brave and Fast means she's good for item finding! That's...something?
Malak Galthana: 1/10. Male Mage whose got a crappy base class, joins latish, and no real redeeming qualities other than Low Faith! ...oh right, LOWERING Faith was easy.
Beowulf Kadmus: 6/10. Interesting alternative to an Oracle.
Reis Dular: 3/10. Project who joins too late to be worth a damn.
Worker 8: 5/10. Nice little unit whose strong out of the gate, but sometimes doesn't feel quite strong enough and joins latish.
Cidoflas Orlandu: 8/10. Good Emergency "Oh shit my team sucks" character who can really make the later parts a lot easier, and is strong enough to overcome the lateness to some degree. Granted, part of it is the equips kicking in, but he's got the stats and additional options (like Thief Hat) to futher solidify.
Meliadoul Tingel: 2.5/10. Sigh, in WotL, she show shades of decency where she can hit monsters...and is still having this "Owned by Orlandu" issue. Really needed to join in Chap 3 when there were enough Plot Fights left, and BEFORE Orlandu outdoes her at everything.
Zalbag Beoulve: DNR. Yeah, no.
Cloud Strife: 2/10. He's got a good skillset and stats aren't bad...but being level 1 REALLY kills his overall performance that late.
Byblos: 1/10. Joins too fucking late to be worth anything remote a damn.
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: 3/10. Joins early, but you already have 3 PCs by then, and he's worse than all of them, GREAT JOB!
Guile: 5/10. Decent Mage with interesting Elemental Grid, but he's split path, and he misses the entire mid game.
Luccia: 3/10. Crappy.
Harle: 7/10. Bad ass across the board with good techs! She'd be potential MVP over Serge if she was a permanent character.
Grobyc: 5/10. Decent enough overall.
Skelly: 4/10. Joins late and didn't seem that special beyond one trick.
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Unrelated to FFT rankings, but important note nonetheless! Tal has helped me with a script after I transcribed all the data into a nice big spreadsheet. Rankings of more or less everything so far can be seen here:
http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=DL_In-game_character_rankings
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I shouldn't be this happy about a spreadsheet, but that's actually really cool, Tide. ;)
Are you going to post a few more of these on the wiki? We can link them from their own section on the Features area.
Man, when are we gonna get our FP site? ;_;
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I've been lazy, but I will get an update to this topic tonight! Worry not, its far from dead!
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Tide: The chart lists all BoF1 and BoF2 characters as being from BoF2. I'd fix it myself except you obviously have some script that does it. Also I am lazy.
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Djinn: What do you mean a few more of these? If you mean charts, there's a variety of them in the stat topics I ported since I use tables to sort the information. If you mean other RPG feature charts...well I was going to do the RPG ratings, but Soppy's taking care of that. I'm unaware as to what else you are referring to, so you're going to have to specify.
NEB: Got it, fixed. Good eye. I actually *don't* have a script and have to scan it manually (the script prevents us from having to wiki text 400+ lines, not finding names). Still, very few entries, so it was pretty easy to find. Let me know if you see any other errors. Thanks.
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Hey, you're only like...3 fairly complicated algorhythms away from being able to automate RPG Rating scores!!!
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Ramza Beoulve: 7.5/10 Good stats and all, he just doesn't stand out as superior.
Delita Hyral: 6.5/10 Earlygame filler. Also, gets half a point for Holy Knight guest appearances.
Algus Sadalfas: 5.5/10 Delita with slightly worse stats.
Agrias Oaks: 7/10 Not overpowering, but noteworthy.
Gaff Gafgarion: DNR, not around long enough.
Ovelia Akatscha: DNR
Mustadio Bunanza: 5/10 Warm body.
Alma Beoulve: DNR
Olan Durai: DNR
Rafa Galthana: 1.5/10 I guess low Brave is useful for item finding.
Malak Galthana: 1/10 Worse than Rafa.
Beowulf Kadmus: 6/10 Instant crippling status, and some other cool tricks? Sure.
Reis Dular: 2.5/10 100% Invite on Tiamats is worth something.
Worker 8: 5/10 At least he's immune to all spells, most statuses, and most elements while resisting physical attacks! Sheesh, FFT's so skewed toward offense.
Cidolfas Orlandu [Spelling corrected]: 9/10 I could see ranking him below Ramza or even Insert Generic Here, who can break the game well before Orlandu is recruited. But breaking the game with Orlandu is just so straightforward. He's the Anti-Gau.
Meliadoul Tingel: 2/10 Well... if Orlandu were dead, you could use her to Hellcry Punch Rofel? I guess?
Zalbag Beoulve: DNR Even nonstandard RSM cannot induce me to rank a one-fight Guest.
Cloud Strife: 2.5/10 At least he's not Malak! Or Rafa. Or Meliadoul.
Byblos: Abstain. I haven't used him in years and can't bring myself to care.
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Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) Non-Generic PCs:
Ramza Beoulve: 8.06
Delita Hyral: 5.75
Algus Sadalfas: N/A
Agrias Oaks: 6.75
Gaff Gafgarion: N/A
Ovelia Akatscha: N/A
Mustadio Bunanza: 5.13
Alma Beoulve: N/A
Olan Durai: N/A
Rafa Galthana: 1.83
Malak Galthana: 1.03
Beowulf Kadmus: 6.06
Reis Dular: 2.73
Worker 8: 5.57
Cidolfas Orlandu: 8.66
Meliadoul Tingel: 2.97
Zalbag Beoulve: N/A
Cloud Strife: 1.96
Byblos: 1.06
Chrono Cross Black Innates:
Mojo: 2.36
Guile: 4.78
Luccia: 1.75
Harle: 6.75
Grobyc: 4.44
Skelly: 3.71
Best Rating of this Session: Orlandu w/ 8.66
Worst Rating of this Session: Malak w/ 1.03
Algus, Gafgarion, Ovelia, Alma, Olan and Zalbag are all inelligible of ranking!
Chrono Cross is finished. Congrats to Serge for getting the highest rating in the game, and everyone mock Turnip for getting the lowest. And cause we finished another large cast, I extend the top 10 to top 20, and the Big Losers gets a likewise boost!
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
5. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
6. Haar (FE10) 9.17
7t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
7t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
9. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
10. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
11. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
12. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
13. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
14. Tana (FE8) 8.73
15. Purim (SoM) 8.70
16. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
17. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
18t. Claude Kenni (SO2) 8.63
18t. Nailah (FE10) 8.63
20. Ike (FE10) 8.58
Top 20 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
5. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
6. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
7. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
8. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
9. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
10. Garret (FE6) 1.36
11. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
12. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
13. Klein (FE6) 1.64
14t. Fiona (FE10) 1.75
14t. Merlinus (FE6) 1.75
16. Sophia (FE6) 1.78
17t. Isadora (FE7) 1.73
17t. Rafa Galthana (FFT) 1.73
19. Leon Geeste (SO2) 1.85
20. Turnip (CC) 1.88
So I figured since we did FFT Heroes...WHY NOT DO GENERICS NEXT!?
Also, please follow directions. Do not delete names if you aren't rating them or DNRing them (unless you give a note somewhere that says "DNR to all *insert whatever here*"; that's fine). Either leave the name blank, abstain, or DNR them (remember, DNR and Abstain are NOT the same for how I count things; for the record, blank entries are treated as Abstains), but do not delete them please. It makes keeping track of this stuff harder and its kind of annoying.
However, note that if you aren't rating the game at all, you can delete it; I have nothing against that if you are not rating anything from the game, so that's cool. Its just if you are rating something from the game, and then delete entries, its a pain in the ass (accidents do happen I'm aware, but what is an accident and what isn't is obvious in this regard). I know it sounds like I'm moaning but it does make things simpler, the way I do it, if you just follow directions.
And because you guys failed to follow directions, I have picked a "punishment" game for this session! Not that I suspect it'll do much:
Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart:
Quistis Treppe:
Zell Dincht:
Seifer Almasy:
Selphie Tilmitt:
Laguna Loire:
Kiros Seagill:
Ward Zabac:
Rinoa Heartilly:
Irvine Kinneas:
Edea Kramer:
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire:
Chemist:
Knight:
Archer:
Wizard:
Priest:
Monk:
Thief:
Time Mage:
Oracle:
Geomancer:
Lancer:
Summoner:
Mediator:
Ninja:
Samurai:
Calculator:
Bard:
Dancer:
Mime:
Again, War of the Lions is not to be factored in. This is the original, North American, OFFICIAL version only.
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 8/10 - Significantly better than everyone else for multiple reasons
Quistis Treppe: 6/10 - Useful for Degenerator and maybe a few other things
Zell Dincht: 7/10 - #2 go-to damage dealer
Seifer Almasy: 5/10 - Pretty good temp, but nothing special
Selphie Tilmitt: 3/10 - Magic is all but worthless in this game. Full healing can be a negative thing.
Laguna Loire: 5/10
Kiros Seagill: 5/10
Ward Zabac: 5/10
Rinoa: 2/10 - I can't think of any good reason to use her over anyone else
Irvine Kinneas: 6/10 - He's good, but I prefer Zell since he doesn't use ammo.
Edea Kramer: 5/10
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3/10 - They're actually not that bad. Great for starting out until you have better classes.
Chemist: 8/10 - Incredibly useful support units with Guns
Knight: 2/10 - By the time they get Knight Swords you should already have PCs with swordskills
Archer: 3/10 - Guns are better throughout basically the entire game.
Wizard: 7/10 - Excellent early game unit, worthwhile later on but overshadowed
Priest: 4/10 - Pretty good late game mage thanks to Holy and speed, but not really worth it over Chemists
Monk: 7/10 - Can't go wrong with them, but they aren't especially overpowered.
Thief: 5/10 - Good for the Steal set, but otherwise very ho-hum.
Time Mage: 8/10 - Time Magic is amazing and the effects are not duplicated by many other skills.
Oracle: 7/10 - More useful in challenge runs, but FFT status is still awesome. Also sticks.
Geomancer: 7/10 - Underrated. They work as carriers, but hold their own otherwise. Elemental is a great secondary to have.
Lancer: 7/10 - Best Dragoons in the series since being self-sufficient is more important in FFT. Jump is a little tricky for new players though.
Summoner: 8/10 - Pretty awesome damage mage units for the entire game, and Golem is icing on the cake.
Mediator: 3/10 - Useful for modifying Faith and a few abilities, but otherwise fairly lame
Ninja: 9/10 - Broken if used correctly, an army of Ninjas wins this game easily
Samurai: 6/10 - Crappy, but their skill set is worth a ton, especially on mage builds.
Calculator: 6/10 - Same thing here, but I can't rate them higher because they're obnoxious to unlock.
Bard: 3/10 - Not that useful in a normal run, but can work
Dancer: 3/10 - Same here, although they annihilate Chapters 1 and 2 pretty thoroughly if unlocked early.
Mime: 2/10 Not enough payoff for the time investment. If you're Miming Math Skill, the idea of a balanced game doesn't matter to you anymore anyway.
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FF8 can go jump off a cliff.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: Gained JP Up. The class itself isn't something to be used for any longer than you have to but hey. 3/10
Chemist: Hey look it's your best reviver. 8/10
Knight: Just bad. 2/10
Archer: lolcharge. 2/10
Wizard: whee carriers. 7/10
Priest: uh they have AoE healing at least. 4/10
Monk: Monks do not impress me. 3/10
Thief: Thieves impress me less. 2/10
Time Mage: Haste/Slow are nice enough. Not too much else going on there though. 7/10
Oracle: Status is fun and useful. 7/10
Geomancer: The stats/equips are nice but I am not enamoured with the skillset. 6/10
Lancer: Not really a fan. 4/10
Summoner: Oh man these guys. 9/10
Mediator: I'm not really big on Br/Fa modification and they're not even that great at *that* niche. 2/10
Ninja: Two Swords is cool. 8/10
Samurai: The skillset is alright enough but man the class itself is bad. 4/10
Calculator: I can unlock stuff for Math Skill broken or I can just get on with the game. 5/10
Bard: Whee a pain to unlock and generally not good! 1/10
Dancer: Whee a pain to unlock and generally not good! 1/10
Mime: Mime is Adam Division material. 0/10
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Death to FF8.
Edea Kramer:
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 5/10. Move+1 and gained JP UP are worth 4 points.
Chemist: 9/10. Chemists are silly. Awesome skillset and get guns, what is not to love?
Knight: 3.5/10. Some use early and late, but breaks aren't very good and they lag painfully once hats get awesome.
Archer: 3.5/10. Good equipment mix- they can make nasty lancers if you're inclined to poach a good spear- but charge limits their use.
Wizard: 8/10. Black Magic is great early game and they are effective carriers.
Priest: 6/10. Class is pretty below average, but White Magic is very good.
Monk: 6/10. Lots of useful things here! Monk really hates the poor equip options though.
Thief: 2/10. A few lategame uses (Poaching/catching) but for the most part this class is terrible.
Time Mage: 7/10. Very solid.
Oracle: 7.5/10. They make surprisingly competent fighters or mages.
Geomancer: 6/10. Straight up carrier like Knight, but is better at it.
Lancer: 4/10. Augh FFT Armor.
Summoner: 7/10. Summons are pretty fun.
Mediator: 3/10. Brave/faith twinking is cool! Train is useful every so often as well.
Ninja: 9/10. Godlike offense.
Samurai: 4/10. Skillset/skills of awesome, stats/class of fail.
Calculator: 6/10. Loses four points for the speed. Thankfully you can rip Math skill off and put it on other units.
Bard: 2/10. Move+3! Everything else is trash.
Dancer: 1/10. Trash.
Mime: 0/10- Is Mime.
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10. Not much to say, Squall's the best choice most of the time thanks to auto-crits. Limits aren't bad either.
Quistis Treppe: 4/10. I like Quistis, but objectively, eh. Guess she kills some high-level randoms easily if you want to grind against them or something!
Zell Dincht: 5/10. Best limit damage is something. A point over the bland people.
Seifer Almasy: DNR
Selphie Tilmitt: 4/10. Another meh choice, yay Full-Cure?
Laguna Loire: DNR
Kiros Seagill: DNR
Ward Zabac: DNR
Irvine Kinneas: 2/10. lulz. Item farming just to use limits? hahaha. Awful damage with the storebought stuff. No notable stats otherwise.
Edea Kramer: DNR
Rinoa: 7/10. Best stats by quite a ways is worth something.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3/10. Gained JP Up and Move+1.
Chemist: 8/10. Phoenix Down and Auto-Potion are both top-tier abilities.
Knight: 2/10. Needed innate defences up.
Archer: 2/10. Needed the best ST damage skillset.
Wizard: 8/10. Yeah, early black magic is great, and it's an excellent carrier forever.
Priest: 6/10. Okay. Holy is nice, some GT healing (although Summon's probably better for that), and the only revival that lets you take a hit, although slow revival has problems. EDIT: Raised the score a touch, Holy = best human boss-killing offence and the Math Skill capstone, after all.
Monk: 5/10. Decent, but only decent.
Thief: 2/10. ****ing thieves.
Time Mage: 7.5/10. Teleport rules. SC and the skillset are good too.
Oracle: 7/10. Status is great. Not bad otherwise. Life Drain = best zodiac boss-killing offence.
Geomancer: 5.5/10. I want to like them more, but no. Good carrier at least.
Lancer: 3/10. Heavy armour is kinda lame.
Summoner: 8.5/10. Kills shit dead. Best offence for randoms which is the most important. By far. Math Skill surpasses it but Summon takes no effort to make godly, and effort only makes it better.
Mediator: 3/10. Not much to say. Guns or something.
Ninja: 6.5/10. Mm, think they're a little overrated around here, but still an excellent vehicle for ST smash. That's about it, though (durability is lame for a melee character).
Samurai: 4/10. Nice skills, but we know the problem here.
Calculator: EDIT: 7.5/10. I am so damn mood swingy on calculators. On reflection, though... the most efficient way to tear through the game involves 5 classes (Chemist, Wizard, TM, Summoner, Calculator... maybe with a side of Priest in there for Holy but whatevs, it's less important). Though being in Calc itself is still quite painful, it's not quite as self-contained as Summoner or even Chemist. Not that I rate things for self-containment alone, but it is a point; the best classes both are good standalone AND contribute a lot to a cross-class setup. But anyway, Calc gets to hang out towards the lower end of the big five.
Bard: 1/10. Haha. Game fails to make me care about Move+3.
Dancer: 2/10. Nameless Dance is good early at least.
Mime: 0/10. The one, the only.
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Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 4/10. Move+1 and Gained JP up.
Chemist: 6/10. Good at what it does. Suffers if you go to high levels, but is all around solid. In general I'm less in love with item+auto potion+guns than most of the FFT crowd.
Knight: 3/10. Needed work. They aren't unsalvageable, but Knight Swords end up benefiting the special characters and not their namesakes. Oh well.
Archer: 5/10. Serviceable but overshadowed. Charge isn't that good to top it off.
Wizard: 8.5/10. Black magic is great even if Holy/other stuff overshadows it later.
Priest: 8/10. Good healing, revival, status and Holy. Faith is a concern, but this shouldn't matter if you coordinate your team at all. CT issues do hamper them though.
Monk: 8.5/10. Hits things hard, can be tweaked out for more power with brave adjustments and has a shiny skill-set. One of my favorite classes to use, especially on Ramza.
Thief: 1/10. Steal gets a point.
Time Mage: 4/10. Haste machines, occasionally tossing a slow out too. Boring and Meteor is absolutely terrible.
Oracle: 6/10. Status abuse and sticks is a good combo. Obsoleted later on by Beowulf, who avoids CT altogether.
Geomancer: 7/10. Interesting class, mainly useful for long range Elemental abuse. This is really useful though and worth some investment, and Attack UP is really nice.
Lancer: 5/10. Spears are good, Dragon Spirit's not bad. They break about even since Jump has some issues.
Summoner: 6/10. I'd rather use a black mage to do a summoners job, and I find the later abilities all but worthless.
Mediator: 6/10. Essential for brave/faith manipulation, highly useful for invite. Hard to grade since they're otherwise mediocre in battle.
Ninja: 9/10. Stab, stab, things die. Has issues but overwhelming offense is really damned good, as is two swords.
Samurai: 3/10. Warrior class that relies on MA. Good design choice there. Two hands get overshadowed by two swords too.
Calculator: 3/10. Nice on paper, pain in the ass to get. I'm never sure how to grade 'em.
Bard: 1/10. Le trash.
Dancer: 1/10. Le trash.
Mime: 0/10. M-M-MEGATRASH.
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7. Works for basically the reasons NEB listed, although looking at it, most of mine were pretty close to his.
Quistis Treppe: 5. Basically also for the same reason NEB said, minus that I got use out of her high level stuff!
Zell Dincht: 5. Yep. Damage could go higher, but method of inflicting damage is kind of annoying.
Seifer Almasy: Abstain
Selphie Tilmitt: 3.5
Laguna Loire: Abstain
Kiros Seagill: Abstain
Ward Zabac: Abstain
Rinoa Heartilly: 5.5. Stat boost is nice, but junctioning makes it kind of minor. Obvious enough to make her number 2, although the limit...yeah, that sucked.
Irvine Kinneas: 2.5
Edea Kramer: DNR
I'd do FFT generics, but I'm pretty sure I was pretty bad at playing RPGs back then and my worth of class views would be highly colored by this.
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Irvine Kinneas: 2/10. lulz. Item farming just to use limits? hahaha. Awful damage with the storebought stuff. No notable stats otherwise.
Au contraire. He has the shortest attack animation, which is the limit on how fast you can attack once you max out speed. Eventually he becomes twice as fast as everyone else.
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 9/10. Kinda easily the best character - some of the best limits, best damage, near-perfect availability...
Quistis Treppe [Trepe]: 8/10. Degenerator. Simple as that.
Zell Dincht: 7/10. Good damage output, ridiculous Limits.
Seifer Almasy: 5/10. Ridiculous at time of use, waaay too limited on availability.
Selphie Tilmitt: 5/10. Credit for The End? haha no. Full-Cure and good Spirit are about the only things that get her this.
Laguna Loire: DNR.
Kiros Seagill: DNR.
Ward Zabac: DNR.
Rinoa Heartilly: 4/10. Good limit, but it's late-game only and she has literally nothing past that.
Irvine Kinneas: 3/10. To be fair, it's item farming for good limits - Pulse Ammo's pretty ridiculous. Buuut he's kinda bad past that.
Edea Kramer: 0.5/10. Joins for a section where there are no bosses and she's kinda crap for that time and low availability? Get out.
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Squall Leonhart: 6.3/10. Good, but honestly, limits are what matter most, and otherwise everyone is the saaaaaaame.
Quistis Treppe: 4.0/10. Bleh.
Zell Dincht: 7.2/10. Yay controllable, good limit
Seifer Almasy: 6.3/10. Hey spammable limit
Selphie Tilmitt: 6.3/10. Choosing limit effect is nice.
Laguna Loire: 6/10.
Kiros Seagill: 2/10.
Ward Zabac: 3.7/10.
Rinoa Heartilly: 7/10. Hey, some more decent limits if you play around with them!
Irvine Kinneas: 4.6/10. Eh, at least he could out-damage Quistis.
Edea Kramer: 1.4/10. Useless.
Bleh, Final Fantasy Tactics generics. Let's see how much I remember.
Squire: 3.4/10.
Chemist: 8.8/10
Knight: 3.1/10.
Archer: 3.7/10.
Wizard: 8.2/10.
Priest: 7.3/10.
Monk: 4.4/10.
Thief: 3.4/10.
Time Mage: 6.8/10.
Oracle: 6.9/10.
Geomancer: 4.1/10.
Lancer: 3.4/10.
Summoner: 8.8/10.
Mediator: 4.8/10.
Ninja: 6.1/10.
Samurai: 3.1/10.
Calculator: 10/10.
Bard: 2.8/10.
Dancer: 3.3/10
Mime: 8.0/10.
Next game suggestions: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4, Shadow Hearts: From the New World, Valkyrie Profile: Silmeria, Star Ocean: Fantastic Journey
Bonus ones at best!!!: Starcraft!!!!!!, Team Fortress 2!!!!
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.5/10.
Quistis Treppe: 3.5/10.
Zell Dincht: 3.5/10.
Seifer Almasy: DNR
Selphie Tilmitt: 3.5/10.
Laguna Loire: vox is too sexy/10
Kiros Seagill: Black dude with HAND BLADES/10. Why do black PCs in FFs always have their weapons attached to their body
Ward Zabac: Anchor time/10
Irvine Kinneas: 3.5/10.
Edea Kramer: DNR
Rinoa: 7/10.
Rinoa Heartilly: 4/10. Good limit, but it's late-game only and she has literally nothing past that.
Really, having game-best stats is more important than people's limits IMO, and Rinoa has this! So saying she has 'literally nothing else' seems a little off when she clearly does have other things!
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3/10.
Chemist: 8/10.
Knight: 2/10.
Archer: 2/10.
Wizard: 8/10.
Priest: 6/10. Holy is fabulous.
Monk: 5/10.
Thief: 2/10.
Time Mage: 6.5/10
Oracle: 7.5/10. Drain smacks some Zodiac bitches up, status handles randoms~
Geomancer: 4.5/10.
Lancer: 4.5/10. Oh come on they are fun
Summoner: 9/10.
Mediator: 2/10.
Ninja: 7/10.
Samurai: 4/10. Hmph. I want to give them higher here, but they are kinda like Calculator except I like them better conceptually.
Calculator: 4/10. I'm going to be the asswipe here and say that I hate Calculators even though objectively they can break the game if you build yourself in a certain way but only their skillset is useful, not the class!!! And you button mash for combinations like a boring person with a boring life. I basically agree with Random on this. Also Calculator is stupid and annoys me.
Bard: 1/10.
Dancer: 2/10. Nameless Dance is good early at least.
if you have dancers very early you're riding the crazy train
Mime: 0/10.
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Really, having game-best stats is more important than people's limits IMO, and Rinoa has this! So saying she has 'literally nothing else' seems a little off when she clearly does have other things!
I disagree. Limits are the only thing that matter in FF8 period when differentiating between the characters, or at least they have been every time I've played it. Renzokuken and Duel are better than Rinoa's Magic stat. Any advantage she has in stats is irrelevant anyway because the Junction system adds more to the final stats than the base stats ever will. In that regard, the only characters that truly have an advantage are Irvine early on (Spd-J is rare) and Squall with his auto-crit. Later on, Quistis and Selphie have 255% Accuracy, but by then it's a moot point. Of course to be fair, I think it would be better to rate GFs than characters in FF8, since they are more distinct (and technically even they aren't that distinct since you can modify their abilities). Or you could just rate cards because who the hell cares about FF8 battles amirite.
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Or you could just rate cards because who the hell cares about FF8 battles amirite.
This.
But in response to Ciato, game-best Magic in FF8 is like having game-best Strength in FF6. It's really not worth much of anything, since Magic shouldn't really be used past positive status, Meltdown and healing, outside of the odd niche fight (and even then, it's generally set effect stuff like Demi). GFs are better as meat-shields than anything else, and Rinoa even has the problem of being excluded against the hardest boss in-game (and, although I won't penalise her for it, technically, she's actually a hindrance in that fight. Goddamn Adel. >_<) So yeah, I would say she has nothing past a late-game Limit, because game-best Magic means nothing in FF8.
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In a normal playthrough where you aren't really engaging in extra levelling of any kind, the stats are definitely an edge. Rinoa's magic shouldn't be compared to Renzokuken and Duel because Rinoa's magic is relevant regardless of Rinoa's HP. It's not a lot, but the best edge I think a non-Squall person has (Zell would have an edge...it I cared to stretch out a 5 second limit our forever, let along the 12 second ones!)
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What Dhyer said. Also, Rinoa has a similar edge in strength, too, so even if you wrongfully believe FF8 magic sucks, she has an offensive advantage regardless.
EDIT: Never mind. Debating boss difficulty is irrelevant and a distraction. I will just say I find it ridiculous to penalise Rinoa for misisng one boss fight, and I definitely don't consider that one boss fight at all hard. <_<
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I don't necessarily mind not respecting it, but giving her a lower rating than -almost everyone else in the cast- seems highly suspect to me. I personally consider Limits rather irrelevant personally, because lol push O is lame.
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FF8: If I felt like bothering I'd give everyone except maybe Squall a 5 and Squall a 6 but I don't feel like bothering especially since I can't just delete wastes of space so nyeh.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3/10. Accumulate, Gained JP Up, and Move +1! Otherwise aha wut wut
Chemist: 8/10. Items.
Knight: 2/10. haha wut
Archer: 2/10. haha wut
Wizard: 8/10. - Boom
Priest: 5/10. Would be an awesome healer except Chemists exist.
Monk: 7/10 - solid earlygame offense, Wave Fist is cheap and solid range, Chakra/Revive/the status restore... all of it's sitch-dependent, but he gets a lot of it. Also Counter.
Thief: 2/10 - yeaaah
Time Mage: 4.5/10 - Has some okay stuff but... they aren't that good to me.
Oracle: 7.5/10. See Ciato.
Geomancer: 6.5/10. Good carrier, skillset doesn't fail too massively.
Lancer: 4.5/10. See Ciato.
Summoner: 9/10. Boom.
Mediator: 2/10. I was raising a mage, what's this nonmagicaljunk
Ninja: 7/10. Good damage lol defense.
Samurai: 4/10. See Ciato.
Calculator: 3/10. Great skillset! It takes a while to get to and longer to make relevant so yeah no.
Bard: 1/10. Yeah boring.
Dancer: 5/10, this will be my one major "what". MT status was always useful for me. I'd give it higher except it's lategame to me.
Mime: 0/10. This isn't LFT or else I'd give Mime an 8
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Meanwhile, thanks to a) the ease of refining high end HP boosts, b) the ability to simply not heal a character from base HP when using said boosts, and c) the Junction system by nature discouraging the actual casting of spells, I figure Limits are the most efficient and simplest form of offense to destroy the game with. As such.
Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10. Auto-crit is useful in the earliest phases of the game, back when you still fight randoms, then at the end there's always Lionheart. And of course, Renzokuken animates way faster than Duel.
Quistis Treppe: 3/10.
Zell Dincht: 7/10.
Seifer Almasy: ... mmm. 6/10.
Selphie Tilmitt: 3/10.
Laguna Loire: DNR
Kiros Seagill: DNR
Ward Zabac: DNR
Rinoa Heartilly: 5/10.
Irvine Kinneas: 5/10. I find that AP ammo is ridiculously easy to get, that said it's still not THAT awesome.
Edea Kramer: DNR
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 4/10. Gained JP Up is a necessary skill, but clearly a stopover class.
Chemist: 8/10. Rarely use them myself, but that's a personal quirk.
Knight: 3/10.
Archer: 4/10.
Wizard: 6/10.
Priest: 6/10.
Monk: 4/10.
Thief: 2/10.
Time Mage: 5/10.
Oracle: 7/10.
Geomancer: 6/10.
Lancer: 5/10.
Summoner: 7/10.
Mediator: 3/10.
Ninja: 7/10.
Samurai: 5/10.
Calculator: 7/10. Mmm... yeah, the investment involved is worth a point reduction.
Bard: 2/10.
Dancer: 2/10.
Mime: 1/10. Hm. They take a heavily built up character who should easily be achieving game breaking status and reduce them to a wasted slot, so clearly sub-two. Does it damage you enough to be worth a 0... nah, you can do FFT with four characters. Unless Mimes are more likely to nuke your own side than do nothing or something? I've never been patient enough to grind one out.
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Meanwhile, thanks to a) the ease of refining high end HP boosts, b) the ability to simply not heal a character from base HP when using said boosts, and c) the Junction system by nature discouraging the actual casting of spells, I figure Limits are the most efficient and simplest form of offense to destroy the game with. As such.
This. This this this.
The way I see this, Rinoa's only good Limit is very late-game, and isn't even that great then. Selphie's is useful early on, and that's a longer section and a section that needs it more, Zell's is ridiculously good (because, yes, I do use the Limit to, uhh, deal damage. I'm not penalising Zell because some people don't put in the best commands when it's blindingly obvious), Irvine's... well, Irvine's got a lower score than Rinoa. Squall's is stupidly good, Quistis gets Degenerator for any and all randoms, and then some other random stuff from there, plus situational stuff like Missiles. So yeah, I'd say Rinoa is second-worst. Technically, they should all be closer together, but in-game use is relative to each other, so I'm not just gonna put them all as 'kinda average'.
I'm not actually penalising Rinoa for missing the Adel fight, btw. I'm not sure why I mentioned that, train of thought, etc. Think I was going on the topic of GFs not being all that great.
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Mm. Definitely on the "Limits and accuracy are all that matter, stats are irrelevant" side of things. Even if you never use Limits - and you generally don't have to - Junctions should comprise a huge amount of your stat build. If you're levelling up, then include stat bonuses (most notably Strength bonus). I dunno, I was always the type of person who once a new magic was available, would immediately draw 100 copies for everyone.
Still, a fairly flat curve - since Junctions are so huge and everyone can use every spell character differences don't matter TOO much.
Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10. Auto-crits, perfect accuracy, Renzo is good if a bit inconsistent.
Quistis Treppe: 7/10. Degenerator. DEGENERATOR. Available earlyish, too! Makes the Underwater Research Lab or the Island Closest to Hell a breeze as the Ruby Dragons perish helplessly as nothing stops it. Support Blue Magic is all right for boss battles.
Zell Dincht: 6/10. Awesome limit damage, but that's about it.
Seifer Almasy: DNR.
Selphie Tilmitt: 4/10. Sure Slots are twinkable, and Full Cure would be very helpful in a no-Magic no-Junctions playthrough, but requires more work than other characters to break the game.
Laguna Loire: 4/10. MT limit is cute?
Kiros Seagill: 5/10. Blood Pain was all right IIRC?
Ward Zabac: 4/10. More MT limits.
Rinoa Heartilly: 3/10. Uh Angelo Search can get you items! And if you were doing a junctionless playthrough constant attempts praying for Invincible Moon could cheese some boss battles. Angel Wing is twinkable but involves only junctioning Meteor and Ultima to HP and Magic and still being uncontrollable so screw that. I only ever found out she has a stat edge from the RPGDL stat topic - with junctions, the difference is nearly irrelevant.
Irvine Kinneas: 4/10. Actually Irvine has the highest limit damage in the game, or at least comparable to Zell.... for two Limits. Then he'll be out of Fast Shot. So uh potential boss-killer hype?! But running out of ammo definitely makes him less interesting vs. randoms. (I think the person who beat OMEGA Weapon Junctionless / devourless did it with either an Irvine / Zell / Squall party or an Irvine/Zell/Quistis one, IIRC.)
Edea Kramer: DNR.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 2/10. Gained JP up.
Chemist: 6/10 Auto-Potion is that broken, but I also didn't like using Chemist otherwise. Is probably best if you're using a "screw magic everyone gets 12 Faith" strategy which didn't seem like fun.
Knight: 4/10. Okay early, but definitely fades later, and by the time Knight Swords exist you give them to unique non-generics like Ubersquire or Holy Swordsman. I will hype the end-of-Chap 2 fights with Gaffy as being quite hard Back In The Day and Break Weapon is a great way to win 'em.
Archer: 2/10. Concentrate and nothing else. Theoretically a run & gun could work with them, on some maps, but you needed to be able to take back moves and measure your attack range in advance for this not to involve pulling your hair out.
Wizard: 5/10. Great in Chapter 1, falls *fast* after that (stupid Bolt3+ taking too long to cast) unless you're just using the class as a carrier.
Priest: 7/10. I was a huge fan of FFT Priest. GT Healing, revival, and a big shot of damage for emergencies. MP an issue, but still.
Monk: 5/10. Interesting, but ultimately just doesn't quite cut it. GARR STUPID REVIVE VERTICAL TOLERANCE OF 0. Pretty expensive to learn all the skills, too, though I'll grant early Hamedo would brutalize parts of the game.
Thief: 4/10. Steal Heart, Move +2, next.
Time Mage: 4/10. Also interesting but I wish Haste lasted longer. Meteor requires you equip Short Charge. Best used to counter enemy Time Mages by blowing away enemy Hastes with Slows.
Oracle: 4/10. Paralyze's hit rate was surprisingly good and not nearly immuned as often as I expected it to, but that was still ultimately a short-term fix for enemies. Status hype would be good for 5 of you vs. 3 badass of them (that don't immune the status), but you're often fighting 10 averageish enemies, and you want to even the odds fast for that.
Geomancer: 5/10. Interesting Fighter / Mage / Skirmisher. Didn't feel like it had enough heft to stand on its own but okay support, like Monk.
Lancer: 5/10. Actually Jump is pretty neat... except... first off, Lancer hoses your Magic stats, which is bad for Fighter Mages; second, Lancer isn't that fast, so speedy jumps are tricky to use. Still, Lancers get to do things like snipe enemy mages from a distance which is cool and definitely useful. Then they stop getting cool new Lances in Chapter 4 and suck compared to the shiny Knight Swords others have (unless you farm the special Deep Dungeon Whale Whisker, fine.).
Summoner: 8/10. Most broken-while-still-being-accessible class in the game. They don't have revival but that's about it. Spamming Ramuh is great for whittling down hordes even late, it ignores evasion and friendlies, etc.
Mediator: 3/10. Okay you can do Faith modification but you can do that by just carefully picking which recruits to use or hire at the beginning of the game, too. Ramza handles the Brave Raising. Invite Rush is a cheese way of winning some battles but will get you killed by Zodiac Braves.
Ninja: 7/10. Two Hands Swords is literally the only thing that makes a physical strategy viable lategame. Crazy speed too. The durability is a weakness though when ninjas need to charge to the front of the lines since the throwing stars kinda suck.
Samurai: 6/10. Expensive, but Draw Out is cool. Blade Grasp.
Calculator: 6/10? Uhhhh can't really deny that Math Skill breaks the game but you have to be in a statistically terrible class to learn all the cool variants and using Math Skill is really annoying. Whee checking the board's CT all the time.
Bard: 3/10. Dancer works better, there are generally more enemies to debuff than allies to buff.
Dancer: 5/10. Mass Oracle hax! Cheeses the Deep Dungeon completely, nothing like all the enemies showing up statused to all hell, or alternatively taking no turns thanks to Slow Dance. Shame it's bad on maps which require fast action and with enemies starting right next door, which is a number of 'em.
Mime: 1/10. No.
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I dunno, I was always the type of person who once a new magic was available, would immediately draw 100 copies for everyone.
Funny how doing that makes the game too easy to care about character differences. <.< (I mean, it's already easy, but there's easy and then there's easy.) If you don't max out on drawing base stats do matter some, and they certainly mean way more than limits which generally all kill things just fine when you happen to get them.
Honestly I find it immensely silly how you can grind up to gamebreaking stats then try to focus on minor differences like limit damage... do I really care how badly I overkill things? At that point you can just kill bosses in 1-2 rounds of physicals and one-shot all randoms. Theoretical damage Zell deals becomes meaningless (except for uh Omega I guess but whatever, Holy Wars > that entire fight) if you have insane Str, and so on.
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Uh ignoring the really crazy breaking with card games and stuffs Limit spam becomes incredibly easy once you get Siren. Refine restoration items skill she has turns tents into Curaga. That is like nearly 4k HP there. Limits and their differences are kind of huge at that point if you are going down that route.
There is pretty much 3 ways you can play through FF8 normally. Play it like a normal FF where you utilise your crazy strong healing to almost never die, but also never see limits much, limit spam we are all familiar with or GF spam which is insanely boring BUT you are protected by progressively more and more giant HP shields on each character. FF8 falls over and dies to any of these. All you are getting out of this argument is which of the ways people played through the game. I am just kind of suprised we have even hit this argument, limit spam is so prominent in FF8 discussions on the internets.
Also you are honestly really underrating how much damage you can squeeze out of Duel with LRL and DRL (uh don't know the PS1 controls) chains even without anything special junctioned into Str. If you do regular Duel chains, yeah they are bad. But you should be able to squeeze at least 10 attacks out of the shortest Duel chain time available, those add up to being Renzokuken level very easilly and blow the shit out of Angelo Strike in next to no time at all (it is ... 4x multiplier I think? Yeahhhhhhhh you get more than that out of Duel). Edit - Oh yeah and there is more to how well Duel scales than just hueg Str stuff, plenty of the one hit limits will more easilly hit the damage cap with Vit 0 status from Meltdown or Mantrain, Duel just keeps on scaling its damage upwards.
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No argument that FF8 difficulty level is borked. Just... not drawing or refining lots of spells seems the equivalent of not bothering to buy new equipment at shops in other games. Just that to extend the analogy, FF8 difficulty is balanced toward an initial-equipment run for a lot of other RPGs.
For what it's worth, when I tried to replay FF8, I challenged myself not via intentionally stopping at 50 spells, but rather only using the first 3 GFs (okay and Siren for *only* Move-Find so you can see secret save points bleh whatever). It didn't really help, but at least the characters had weaknesses in stats they didn't junction to silly levels! (On the downside I also stayed low level. MISTAKE, game dies to stiff breeze if you do that.)
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FF8 ladies and gentlemen, if you powerlevel it gets harder. Obviously all my discussion on the game assumes you don't do this, powerlevelling to make the game harder + drawing/item shenanigans to make it easier is better replaced with neither for less effort and holy crap the game is still easy.
plenty of the one hit limits will more easilly hit the damage cap with Vit 0 status from Meltdown or Mantrain,
This is where I point out that aside from Ultimecia, FF8 bosses top out at something like 25-30k HP. If you are hitting the damage cap the game is being raped hardcore and I'm not going to sob that I'm only doing 10k damage instead of 15k. Even Ultimecia, well, her big scary attack is a death counter so overkill offence won't even help you there! Otherwise, it is FF8, it is a joke, this discussion is pointless and the fact that I am willingly continuing it speaks to the fact that I care too much about talking about RPGs on the internet.
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By the time you get to Ultimecia, I wasn't even about limits, I was about Triple Casting extremely painful spells that at that point you have high stock of and little reason not to consume anyways!
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Checking RPG Classics shrine (for what that is worth), everything from Mobile Type 8 can have up to 40k plus, but that is prolly way to over levelled.
But yeah you should be hitting that damage cap in disc 3 or so with a Firaga Str junction and Angelo Strike and its like with Vit 0. (Again bulg multiplier single hit. This isn't Blast Zone or Fated Circle stuff). Only way I can see not having that there is if you aren't using Refines at all which the game gives you for free.
Not to say the game is even challenging at that point, but still.
Edit - Also yeah you are perfectly capable of doing the above, that falls into your play it like normal FF style.
Edit 2 - You also might be seeing a bit of correlation here between the people that liked limit spam, using Squall, Zell and Irvine with the people that liked Shadow Hearts combat system, there is a bit of overlap there.
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By the time you get to Ultimecia, I wasn't even about limits, I was about Triple Casting extremely painful spells that at that point you have high stock of and little reason not to consume anyways!
Same here, for the record.
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10. This should probably be higher given how I play FF8. Auto Crits is a huge advantage for damage control since it also means it will never crit when you don't want to. And Carding things if you are fighting FF8 randoms for whatever reason is typically more valuable than the EXP you get anyways.
Quistis Trepe: 5.5/10. Her limits are good, but some of them require too many materials or are just too late to matter. Degenerator matters for like 1 boss and not much else other than killing high level randoms, so not getting the omghype there
Zell Dincht: 5/10. Good ST damage dealing potential. That's all he has.
Seifer Almasy: DNR
Selphie Tilmitt: 3/10. Eeeeeeeeeh. Full Cure is kinda useful early. Her limit is pretty useless late but is the only person with Perfect accuracy. So.
Laguna Loire: Vice President/10. Is the President of Esthar. Gets a -3 on the manliness scale and is demoted after the stint of putting the entire world at stake by allowing Ultimecia to succeed in her plans. Bonus points for playing Man with Machine Gun all day while he is in office.
Kiros Seagill: Token black guy/10. Is the token black guy in the game. Yes I know there are other cadets, but who cares about them
Ward Zabac: Silent Aid/10. Speaks in more elipises than Squall
Rinoa Heartilly: 6/10. I dislike her limits, but her natural stat edge makes up for it in some levels.
Irvine Kinneas: 4.5/10. He's the third damage dealer but is the weakest. His big advantage is that his limit can be MT and if something dies, he can always swap targets to hurt the other enemy. I never found the items to be that bad to stock (Fire Ammo comes from Fuel which is readily buyable and you get a ton of Demolition Ammo refining midgame) but he rarely has a point to be placed into the party since you always have Squall and Zell's better anyway.
Edea Kramer: DNR
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 4/10. Move+1 and Gained JP Up are pretty cool. Rest of skillset ranges from meh to trashy.
Chemist: 8/10. Hey guize, its your best reviver + healer in certain ways. Low damage, but a) you have other party members for that and b) there's always the stone gun + faith twinking for spell guns
Knight: 3/10. I like how half the breaks do pretty much nothing. Strong early I guess, but armor class with no range is just ugh
Archer: 3/10. Ranged physicals! Needed to be stronger though. Charge is lulz.
Wizard: 8/10. Strong carrier class late and pretty strong early.
Priest: 6/10. Protect/Shell are nice. Holy is cool too as is healing with AoE. Not much else otherwise
Monk: 5/10. Decent, but vertical tolerance limits it. As does equip options of bleh.
Thief: 2/10. 1 point for Move+2, 0.5 point for stealing rare stuff on special characters, 0.5 point for Steal Heart. Garbage class otherwise.
Time Mage: 7/10. Haste/Slow are cool. As are Short Charge/Teleport. Demi spells can be okay for boss killing if you care.
Oracle: 6/10. Status is pretty damn powerful. But its sometimes too chance based, with the faith and zodiac and all. Life Drain/Sleep are noteworthy.
Geomancer: 7/10. A good carrier class overall. Default abilities are kinda lame, but not terrible beyond belief.
Lancer: 4/10. Range is pretty cool. Armor equips though, eh. And they have severe problems against faster characters.
Summoner: 8/10. Widespread AoE damage? Hell yeahs
Mediator: 2/10. Uh...Brave twinking is kinda lost thanks to cheer up. But it is one of the few sources for Faith twinking. Mimic Daravon is cool too I guess, although having it hit means your entire skillset is also dead.
Ninja: 7/10. ST Damage. Lots of it. Glass cannons though.
Samurai: 4/10. What Super said. Ew stats and class. Cool abilities.
Calculator: 5/10. Broken as FUCK if you reach out and get it. Getting there is kinda a pain though (ugh speed). Averages out I guess.
Bard: 1/10. Whoo Move+3?!
Dancer: 1/10. Whoo early nameless dance?!
Mime: 0/10. Whoo...uh...uh...stat grindan?!
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Final Fantasy 8: Wow, FF8 discussion.
Squall Leonhart: 6 - Everyone's too generic for the differences to be all that pronounced to me.
Quistis Treppe: 5
Zell Dincht: 6
Seifer Almasy: 6
Selphie Tilmitt: 5
Laguna Loire: -
Kiros Seagill: -
Ward Zabac: -
Rinoa Heartilly: 4
Irvine Kinneas: 4
Edea Kramer: 3
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.5/10
Quistis Treppe: 6.5/10
Zell Dincht: 7.5/10
Seifer Almasy: 5.5/10
Selphie Tilmitt: 7/10
Laguna Loire: Abstain
Kiros Seagill: Abstain
Ward Zabac: Abstain
Rinoa Heartilly: 7.5/10
Irvine Kinneas: 6.5/10
Edea Kramer: 3.5/10
Ehh ... works. Like FF7 and SHC I prefer to judge the characters outside the system here but I've tried to go with a balance between I have no junctions quick Invincible Moon Wishing Star The End hax broken noaw and what little worth a character might have within the system. Rinoa's stats are a definite advantage in an NJ game even if they only give her a slight edge otherwise, it's still something that she has. Harking back to that yeah it's not just her MAG that matters but STR and stats in general across the board irrc. I have to give Selphie some credit for one shotting bosses but not overyhype it since it's not reliable unless you use cheap tricks (PSX lid!)
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Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 7.5/10. Gained JP Up is ridiculous, and really saves a class that would be otherwise probably in the 3/10 range even with Move+1 (and 0/10 without).
Chemist: 7/10. If you're really playing optimally (like Summon Wizard) you actually don't touch them that much. 90 JP Phoenix Down does outclass about 65% of skillsets, though.
Knight: 3/10. Decent early (I know people who swear by Knight Delita for SCCs that can't handle early fights). Weapon Guard is good. If my mathskiller is a generic, I'll sometimes use Excalibur CT5Holy, depending on speed requirements.
Archer: 3/10. Part of the Concentrate Ninja package; one of about three viable routes in optimal play.
Wizard: 9/10. MAU. Crazy MA with the right equips. Black Magic is excellent early, and still useable late.
Priest: 5/10. Mostly useful with Math Skill.
Monk: 3/10. I'd call early Delita Monk the best way for say, Calc SCCs to get through Chapter 1 (some would argue Knight or Summoner) but that's about the only place I've really found core Monk optimal. That said, Martial Arts Ninja is enough to bring this up to 3.
Thief: 2.5/10. Is Move+2 Ninja enough to bring this up to 3? Ehh...you know, I'm going to kneejerk a little lower--Move+1 Ninjas would still handle rescue fights and speed-necessary fights that give calcs trouble like the roof just fine, and Teleport Ninjas are arguably better than Move+2 Ninjas, despite the Throw bonus. (And I'm not feeling that generous towards poaching today; needs to combine with Mediator, and it's a 33% chance of Uribo anyhow).
Time Mage: 7.5/10. Lots of good stuff like Teleport and Haste; even the record math skill speedrun uses MP-Switch to allow you to Holy self. Countermagic Quick is really abusive. Usually not the focus, but it's hard to think of good strategies that don't use them at all.
Oracle: 5.5/10. Above or below Priest...hmm...YYM >>> White; I've actually chosen it over Math Skill on a solo challenge (and chosen it over stuff like Summon and Item in non-zodiac fights). Move MP Up > yeah, Priest has nothing here. So do I give White credit for breaking MS more than it would be broken? Nah; I'll be consistent in being relatively harsh on "I'm the weak half of this combo".
Geomancer: 2/10. Attack Up for Swordskillers. And on rare occasions Ninjas.
Lancer: 1/10. Jump is cool to avoid spells. They're just...a dead end; there's nothing that's worth the cost when playing optimally. (Now, if Math Skill were more expensive...).
Summoner: 9/10. Wtf Shiva/Ramuh/Ifrit. Wtf.
Mediator: 2/10. In keeping with my not feeling generous towards poaching today...yeah, what else do they have going for them?
Ninja: 6.5/10. They fill a niche left open by summoners/mathskillers, so there's at least three viable setups in an optimal party. Certainly the weakest of the three. But...is there an alternative? Nothing else has speed.
Samurai: 2/10. On the one hand, they take about as long to get going as Math Skill, and are worse, and can't get going until later chapters because of what's not storebought. On the other hand, they tend to come out in the endgame anyway; especially near level 99, they're just obviously the #2 alternative. Umm...this feels like poaching, which you will use at endgame, but takes time to setup and can't do much until stuff unlocks in later chapters. What did I give poaching? Let's copy that score.
Calculator: 8/10. The number of classes that said "takes as long to get as Calc, and worse, therefore not good." ...yeah.
Bard: 1/10. Angel Song is cool on paper for like...Ramza, probably as he trains in Calc.
Dancer: 1/10. Nothing breaks Chapter 1 like Dancers; not even Mathskillers. <3 Dancers :). I can't really claim that this is a useful niche, but it is a niche and it's hilarious, and that keeps them from 0.
Mime: 0/10. I've written essays about how they suck much more than even previously suspected. Level up-down use is a niche, to be fair, but not enough to keep them from 0 for me.
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Final Fantasy 8: I so don't care.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 2/10. Gained JP Up is the only reason they exist to me.
Chemist: 8/10. Yeah, the skillset's key moves are just so key. Best healers generally - even by the time the healing just can't keep up unless you farm Elixirs (and why should you?), the game is nearing a game of rocket tag. Auto-Potion and Phoenix Down are just insanely good.
Knight: 2/10. CONCRETE DURABILITY THROUGH HP oh look lacking offense besides Ice Brand setups that are better used by the likes of Geomancer and Knight Swords that are better given to uniques and a useless skillset oh and HP alone doesn't make your concrete anyway. Also, 3 move and can't equip hats? Ew.
Archer: 2/10. Charge is lolz.
Wizard: 8/10. If you're bothering with Black Magic skillset besides L1/2 and Flare, you're doin' it wrong - those are perfectly capable of carrying Wizard throughout the game, and if that wasn't enough, they're the best mage carriers in the game period. Great class.
Priest: 6/10. I guess. Skillset is cool, but needed to be more... accessible in terms of potency. Holy is a great boss-killer at least and the revival has its merits besides being slow. I miss LFT Priests, though.
Monk: 4/10. I hate the move and utter lack of equipment options. Skillset is kinda versatile in a vacuum, but far more limited than it should be in the long term. Martial Arts can carry into some ST death setups, but those never impress me as much as what the best mage setups can do.
Thief: 2/10. Fucking Thieves.
Time Mage: 7/10. Quite good. Time Magic is a neat, versatile skillset that tides battles very strongly. Class itself kinda feels stuck in the middle of mage options, but is generally acceptable.
Oracle: 7/10. They... aren't amazing, I'll grant, but they're one of my favorite classes in the game that cover very capably a lot of battle-winning niches. Good equipment options, good pool of passives for their type and the skillset has the best Zodiac-busting tools -and- excellent grunt-busting tools. FFT is one of those games where the right status can be just as lethal as a OHKO and gives you reason to use it.
Geomancer: 6/10. I like them enough for a 6. Failure skillset besides Attack Up, but the carrier side is high-profile.
Lancer: 3/10. Eeeew limited class with poor carrier features.
Summoner: 9/10. Honestly tempted to give the skillset just -that- much credit. The class itself is kinda shoddy, but not without merit, and certainly isn't bad enough to drag down the sheer might of summons. ITE GT damage that can be boosted a million ways and some cool side options like GT healing and niche physical spoiling? Sold.
Mediator: 3/10. Uh Brave/Faith twinking and guns.
Ninja: 6/10. ST smash is very nice! The lack of versatility and durability honestly don't help, though. Ninja does what it does pretty well, but has very clear issues.
Samurai: 4/10. The skillset is great, but somewhat cumbersome and outmatched by stuff like Summon. The class is trash. Not really that good a combo.
Calculator: 7/10. Sure. Horrible, painful class, but the skillset just breaks the game so badly I feel I need to credit that. And I think there -are- worse classes to be in, at least Calcs have robes and hats.
Bard: 1/10. lulz move +3
Dancer: 1/10. Nameless Dance breaking the earlygame is kinda meaningless to me when you're not likely to -have- this class by then unless you beeline -madly- or grind. If you beeline madly, you're still giving up later game usefulness and if you grind, you're probably just breaking the game anyway.
Mime: 0/10. Simply amazing.
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Random comments:
Interesting the Move +2 isn't getting much hype. I can buy it for say Ramza and the uniques who have non-fail base classes and thus why not pick up Move+1 while you're there. I can also buy it for mages who either grab Teleport from Time Mage or else get Move+1 off spillover while people are Squires, and further nobody spends any time in Archer so they never get access to Thief. However, for any physical beatdown character, Move+2 always struck me as pretty darn necessary (especially if you're fiddling with classes with lowish base Moves like Knight or Monk). Retreat fast, and also sneak in fast, and when you do attack you can maneuver to avoid a shield. Move+2 doesn't cost that much more than Move+1, either, only ~500 or so JP IIRC - quite easy to get if you're knocking Thief up to lvl. 4 (which you probably want to do anyway to unlock Ninja).
Which is not to say that Move+2 is THAT awesome, since as noted that's a fair number of cases it doesn't come up in, but the 2s and 3s seem a bit harsh when Move+2 is far from useless.
mc: "even the record math skill speedrun uses MP-Switch to allow you to Holy self. "
Er... clarification? What's a math skill speedrun? In a normal speedrun I doubt characters have time to unlock Calculator and grab MP-Switch until laaaaaaate Chapter 4, I'd imagine, and I have no idea what a "math skill speedrun" is if that means something. (Make everyone a Calculator in the Mandalia Plains, then start clock?!).
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Actually, Math Skill is so uber that it is totally worth unlocking in a speedrun, since it literally wins battles in a single action. It's probably gotten via some quick mid-story-battle grinding using Yell in C1, though I'd have to watch the videos to check. Looks like the current speedrun record often uses Flare in place of Holy due to the faster animation time, so MP Switch is a viable way to survive that. (A mantle would be too, but presumably the loss of power will lead to missing some OHKOs, not to mention it means more resetting.)
As for Move+2... well, look at the competition. Quite apart from the classes with good skillsets or places I actually want to spend time (both of which I rate as more important than RSM), Thief faces some stiff compeition from classes which are mediocre but have a good RSM ability or two. I'd say Thief is losing to Squire (Gained JP Up and Move+1), Archer (Concentrate), and possibly even Knight (all the Equip X abilities are okay, as is Weapon Guard) although my kneejerk is not in the latter's case. Of course, Knight actually has periods where it's a decent carrier (earlygame PA/HP/swords before bad armour options set in, lategame knight swords for certain generic setups), which Thief really doesn't.
(RSM = reaction/support/movement, for those not familiar with that piece of FFT lingo.)
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Just seconding the fact that Math Skill is pretty much a lock in a speedrun. You run one character (guess who!), throw on Math Skill along with ways that you cannot kill yourself with. The part which I don't know (and it sounds like NEB doesn't either) is the best way to get the Calc class unlocked, along with CT and 5 learnt. Afterwards, spend some time in Time Mage for a small period to re-pick up MP Switch if initially not possible. And MP switch certainly did not take a long time (400 JP?) given how your main offense is likely going to be Flare/Bolt 2 anyway. There really is no other method that is effective. Since afterwards, you can pretty much set up a purely speed/MA oriented Ramza, go first and smack people with something that can't kill you, which works wonders for random grunt maps. Zodiacs may be a slightly different story, but I imagine may just run Holy/Demi 2 (if necessary) but I'm theorizing. I'm not interested in watching the run sadly since most of it IS just Math Skill abuse, otherwise you probably would've heard me talk about it at some point.
The other thing with Move+2: as you put it yourself, it's more for a physical tree character who is basically running straight down that tree. This is of course ignoring spillover JP, but considering how much more viable (and twinkable) magic tree characters are for a large portion of the game, it's certainly not strange to find low hype for it. Not to mention if you want to buy Move+2 ASAP, you're running around with skill less thieves, which means no Steal Heart in a complete garbage class and crap for damage. For me, Move+2 is pretty much one of the few redeeming features of that class and is the only reason they even get a 2 >_>
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Final Fantasy Twilight (8) can burn in an eternal fire.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire:2/10 A few useful abilities, not much else, horrible stat-growth that penalizes you for staying in the class. Squires suck.
Chemist: 9/10 Tied for best generic class in my opinion. Phoenix Down and Auto-Potion alone get it 7/10, together with a great movement ability..yeaaah. Guns add another point for being awesome, elemental guns with high faith could possibly squeeze it to a full 10, but high faith has it's drawbacks so yeah.
Knight: 3/10 They are good in uh...chapter..1? Still better then Squires.
Archer: 3/10 Long-range available early on that isn't constricted by mana is decent. They suck horribly though, but better then Squires.
Wizard: 7/10 Amazing carrier class with very good early game usage. Loses points for sucking later on in it's skill sets.
Priest: 4/10 Point for Holy, Point for Protect, Point for Regen, another Point for Holy. Chemists exist and are this classes pre-req.
Monk: 8/10 I love monks. Mostly for their absolutely amazing flexibility. Offense, Healing, Status Removal, and range in a single class that has access to clothes AND gives the awesomesauce Martial Arts. It's awesome. Also pretty early-game. Loses out to Ninja/Chemist however for lacking hats and for being not that great at damage later on in the game. Still, one of the easiest SSCCs to boot.
Thief: 5/10 Skill set sucks horrendously. But. Steal in this game is goddamn amazing. Also, they have in-game best Speed growth. And seeing as Speed>All for FFT, they have their (masochistic) uses for growth. Also Move+2 is fantastic.
Time Mage: 8/10 Teleport. Meteor. Haste. Demi. That is all.
Oracle: 8/10 Statuses are pretty amazing. Access to a 2-range physical based off a stat they have in abundance (and have decent growth with) is just icing on the cake.
Geomancer: 6/10 Great carrier with a decent back-up skillset, nothing amazing though.
Lancer: 5/10 Slightly skewed opinion since I did a SSCC with this class and I shall explain my reasoning. The ability to avoid Summons to ad nausem with some CT manipulation is amazing, it's really friggin amazing. Jumps and the physical attacks do great damage, and if you can count properly your jumps will never miss, considering they can hit 8 (pretty far for a physical that can't be evaded by anything sans Blade Grasp) spaces away with proper building is amazing. However. The class can't score higher then a 5 for me, because it suffers from the same issues Samurai/Knight suffer. The inability to use clothes. Clothes are by and far the best equipment you can get. The other deduction Lancer gets is for taking an annoyingly long-time to build-up for a Physical class.
Summoner: 6/10 The class sucks. But the skill set rocks.
Mediator: 7/10 Yes, Mediators rank higher then Summoners and Geomancers. Talk Skill is a flexible skill set that allows everything from Sleep, Stop, and lolhax CT deprivation. To turning an enemy into a chicken, a strong magic user into a flea, and yourself into a 97/3 powerhouse. They also gain guns, and their skill set is relatively cheap. Finger Guard sucks harder then Rafa/Malak/Algus combined however.
Ninja: 9/10 This really needs no explanation. Throw (Axe) is friggin strong. Martial Arts Ninja is broken beyond belief. They have great PA growth, and 2nd(?) best speed growth. They dual-wield. And have access to Clothes. Their only drawback is HP, which at the point where you are double-turning everything really doesn't matter. They also have amazing evasion, especially when coupled with Feather Mantle and Abandon. Oh and early-game when they can be 2-shot? Friggin Sunken State. The only reason Ninjas aren't 10/10 is because they lack Sword Skills. Yes it's a ridiculous reason, but this is a ridiculous class.
Samurai: 5/10 Suffers from Only-Armoritosis. Very versatile skill set however, and pretty good growths combined with durability. A decent alternative to a Wizard for a Summon carrier. However, the general pita of unlocking the class is accounted for. Still, Kiyomori+Masamune from two people on the first turn=Yeaaaaaah...
Calculator: 1/10 I'm disregarding the skill set, because honestly, just no. We all know Holy+Math Skill+Excalibur makes the game winnable by 1 person alone. In fact, I remember playing a Solo Ramza game with no class limitation. I had a Ramza with all the needed reaction abilities, Ninja, Move+2, and Math Skill with all the possible variables (Along with Holy and all the lvl.3 elementals, and most of Ying-Yang) by Goug. Without doing any randoms. In about..6 hours playtime. The rest of the game took 2 hours. Without the Skill set, Calculators suck horrendously. They are by-and-far the WORST class in the game. Horrible Speed, horrible PA, horrible MA, worst growths. Just..gah! I'd give them a 0 if it wasn't for Damage Split.
Bard: 4/10. Nameless Song gets this class a pass. Along with a weird period where they are pretty good (Bloody Strings). Point for Move+3.
Dancer: 5/10 Better then Bard, Nameless Dance+Mime can do some awesome shit on enemies. Wiznaibus is actually pretty good early-game, even if early-game Dancers is pretty arbitrary.
Mime: 7/10 I like Mimes. They make Dance and Sing a lot better, and they can make Math Skill even more broken. Along with the game-best general growths make the class a decent choice for me when I'm trying to maximize my gain per level. The fact people have pulled this class to Queklain in an SSCC speaks a lot about it's power. Seriously, it's a skill-less monk with no equipment..and it beat Gaffgarion. Let that sink in.
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...yeah, I've been lazy, but I didn't do my ratings yet; I'll get an update sometime this weekend, I swear!
Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 6.5/10. Best Character due to the Auto Crits and 255% Hit Rate, which has an added bonus of meaning Blind is a POSITIVE status, since it makes his already strong limits better.
Quistis Treppe: 5/10. Degenerator is cool, but that's about the only remotely interesting thing she gets.
Zell Dincht: 6/10. Easily Spammable High Damage limits.
Seifer Almasy: DNR. Exists for Dollet missions only so you can grind on enemies on the Mountain, to get an optimal SeeD rating WITHOUT worrying about being overleveled with Squall/Zell, really.
Selphie Tilmitt: 4.5/10. Healing Limit! But if I'm using Limits, I kind of do not want to be healed, and her damage limits are garbage, and stuff like The End! doesn't kick in enough.
Laguna Loire: DNR. His sections are generally laughable for enemies, barring one Ruby Dragon. Sadly, the music cannot be factored in here.
Kiros Seagill: DNR. See Laguna.
Ward Zabac: DNR. See Kiros.
Rinoa Heartilly: 6/10. The Angelo factor is a nice little gimmick that no one really parallels, and she does have hte only notable stat differences in the entire game (Why does the "I have no fighting experience!" character have +20 strength over all these Elite Mercenaries anyway!? I mean, Magic I can get cause of the eventual Sorceress thing, but STrength just makes NO SENSE, especially considering she uses a freaking Pinwheel.)
Irvine Kinneas: 5/10. Zell-.
Edea Kramer: DNR. Just exists as filler for when Rinoa is out of the party, which isn't long enough gameplay wise to really rate.
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 6/10. Move+1 and Gained JP Up on a starting Job? Yay! Accumulate is cool for free EXP/JP too.
Chemist: 8/10. Guns, Auto Potion, and Item in general is a good skillset, and the fact that the class has innate Throw Item adds to the general use too. ALSO FREE SUPPORT ABILITY!!1!!1!
Knight: 4/10. Weapon Guard is cool for an early game reaction, and Breaks have some uses on ranged classes, but not quite enough.
Archer:4/10. Would be better if Guns didn't exist, really.
Wizard: 6.5/10. Gamebest MA has to count for something.
Priest: 6.5/10. Decent overall.
Monk: 4/10. Versatile Skillset, but never quite got the UBER hype or anything.
Thief: 1.5/10. Steal has some...vague...use...and Move+2 is good! But yeah, they suck.
Time Mage: 7/10. Good spells, MP Switch for that combo, and Teleport.
Oracle: 7.5/10. Typical Mage, but with an actual physical, and I felt that status is more useful in FFT than most games, mostly cause you can actually see if its going to work and a majority of enemies are in fact vulnerable. Oh yeah, ahs half of the "Move MP Up + MP Switch" combo.
Geomancer: 7/10. Well balanced job on all fronts. Shields, can go a physical or magical route, what have you; only flaw is Elemental is kind of mrf.
Lancer: 3/10. Never really felt much use for them; Jump's cool in theory, but honestly feels like there are better options.
Summoner: 8/10. So we take wizard, lower the MA a bit, but give them big powerful scary spells that make Black Magic obsolete, *AND* top it off with stuff like Healing and Golem? SIGN ME UP!
Mediator: 5/10. Guns and some gimmick moves are cool, but nothing special.
Ninja: 7/10. If you're using a physical generic, you definitely are going to need at least SOME TIME with one of these guys. High speed, dual wield, good physical stats to support it, and Throw's a passable compliment as a ranged attack.
Samurai: 5/10. Garbage Job with a few good abilities for OTHER Jobs to use, so its existence is justified.
Calculator: 5/10. Really damned good, but it takes a good deal of effort to get an effective one, and the job itself is iffy, so its more the skillset. Yeah, we'll just say that all balances out.
Bard: 2/10. Sing has cool stuff, and Move+3 is neat. The problem...they're not cool enough to justify the effort needed for this job, and getting that far means you probably have better stuff at least for the command ability.
Dancer: 2/10. Bard with better command set, but no Move+3. Also, no Harps, for all that I didn't mention them.
Mime: 0.5/10. AHAHHAHAHAHAHHA no. Mimes just suck completely, I gave them half a point purely cause of the amusement value of a "Choir" based set up involving 3 Mimes, a Dancer and a Bard, which was hilarious to watch and surprisingly effective (for all that I only saw it on a random encounter.)
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.0/10 Gunblade crits.
Quistis Trepe [Spelling corrected]: 4.0/10 Weak reliable limit.
Zell Dincht: 6.0/10 Multi-hit limit, which can apparently be arbitrarily powerful with sufficient practice.
Seifer Almasy: DNR
Selphie Tilmitt: 3.5/10 Weak unreliable limit.
Laguna Loire: DNR
Kiros Seagill: DNR
Ward Zabac: DNR
Rinoa Heartilly: 5.0/10 Unreliable limits with potential.
Irvine Kinneas: 5.0/10 Multi-hit limit with ammo dependency.
Edea Kramer: DNR
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3.5/10 Gained JP Up. See also Move+1, Throw Stone. (Yep, I've set Basic Skill for Throw Stone before. It earns JP!)
Chemist: 7.0/10 Reliable revival, Auto Potion, gets guns. It's a lousy class to level up in, but thankfully FFT stat growth isn't important.
Knight: 2.5/10 Bad mobility, lousy options, no range.
Archer: 3.0/10 Bad mobility, lousy options, range. And worse damage/durability than Knight, but at least Archers get to contribute.
Wizard: 7.5/10 The strongest magical carrier. Magic Attack Up.
Priest: 6.0/10 The fastest magical carrier. Some buffs, an alternative to Item for healing, and Holy.
Monk: 5.0/10 Monk is decent, just not impressive by FFT standards. I'd say the same about Punch Art secondary.
Thief: 3.5/10 Move+2 is good, Steal gets you some nice stuff, now if only the class weren't terrible. And a point for Secret Hunt I guess.
Time Mage: 8.0/10 Haste, Don't Move, Short Charge, Teleport, and some fancy tricks/combos to boot.
Oracle: 7.0/10 Magical carrier with a reach physical and Pray Faith. Defense Up, too.
Geomancer: 7.5/10. All-purpose carrier with 4 move and a shield. Attack Up and Counter Flood, also. (Why yes, I'd like to counterattack Archers with 25% Stop/Petrify.)
Lancer: 3.0/10 Knight with no Ch1 use, but (JP-intensive) ranged damage.
Summoner: 7.5/10 Basic summons are already great, and then they get sometimes-useful upper level summons as well as healing, Golem, etc.
Mediator: 4.0/10 Solution, Mimic Daravon, [Spell] Guns & Robeses. Invite is a 100 JP alternative to Steal [X] against generics. And a half point for monsters I guess.
Ninja: 7.5/10 A pain to unlock, but they're the best physical powerhouse. Ninja speed/mobility mean they're even useful carriers for MA-based skillsets at times.
Samurai: 4.0/10 As hard to unlock as Ninja, but without the stats, equipment, or inherent support. Draw Out and Blade Grasp are good, though.
Calculator: 9.0/10 Since propositions exist, their terrible stats are not an effective handicap on the skillset.
Bard: 1.5/10 Move+3 doesn't require Sing to be set.
Dancer: 2.0/10 Nameless Dance doesn't require 1200 JP in Bard.
Mime: 1.0/10 Mimes have too many interesting gimmicks for me to hand 'em a zero.
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Just noting that no, the topic is NOT dead. Just with Minimeet, and boards temporarily dying, and work + School being pricks, I've been held up a bit. I'll update soon enough though.
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Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.14
Quistis Treppe: 5.12
Zell Dincht: 6.01
Seifer Almasy: N/A
Selphie Tilmitt: 4.25
Laguna Loire: N/A
Kiros Seagill: N/A
Ward Zabac: N/A
Rinoa Heartilly: 5.31
Irvine Kinneas: 4.28
Edea Kramer: N/A
Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3.65
Chemist: 7.80
Knight: 2.76
Archer: 2.95
Wizard: 7.48
Priest: 5.8
Monk: 5.24
Thief: 2.62
Time Mage: 6.55
Oracle: 6.78
Geomancer: 5.82
Lancer: 4.03
Summoner: 7.99
Mediator: 3.43
Ninja: 7.41
Samurai: 4.19
Calculator: 5.78
Bard: 1.77
Dancer: 2.33
Mime: 1.28
NOTE: Seifer had a tiebreak vote in chat, hence why he was DNRed, so if you count them up, that's how I made the decision.
Best Rating of this Session: Summoner w/ 7.99
Worst Rating of this Session: Mime w/ 1.28
Seifer, Laguna, Kiros, Ward, and Edea all get no ratings, and thus shall be...forgotten?
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
5. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
6. Haar (FE10) 9.17
7t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
7t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
9. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
10. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
11. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
12. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
13. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
14. Tana (FE8) 8.73
15. Purim (SoM) 8.70
16. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
17. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
18t. Claude Kenni (SO2) 8.63
18t. Nailah (FE10) 8.63
20. Ike (FE10) 8.58
Top 20 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
5. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
6. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
7. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
8t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
8t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
10. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
11. Garret (FE6) 1.36
12. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
13. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
14. Klein (FE6) 1.64
15t. Fiona (FE10) 1.75
15t. Merlinus (FE6) 1.75
17. Sophia (FE6) 1.78
18t. Isadora (FE7) 1.73
18t. Rafa Galthana (FFT) 1.73
20. Bard (FFT) 1.77
I think we'll just finish off the other "boring" FF game for ratings...as well as FFT this time around! I was gonna do something else, but people started boycotting this topic, so AWAY WE GO!
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife:
Barret Wallace:
Tifa Lockheart:
Aeris Gainsborough:
Nanaki "Red XIII":
Yuffie Kisaragi:
Cait Sith:
Vincent Valentine:
Cid Highwind:
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth:
Bird:
Bomb:
Bull Demon:
Cat:
Chocobo:
Dragon:
Floating Eye:
Ghost:
Goblin:
Hydra:
Marlboro:
Skeleton:
Squid:
Tree:
Uribo:
Yeah, for sanity reasons, and due to the breeding nature, we're doing it off Species-sets. Just makes things easier than having to decide exactly how good everything is, and cuts the # of ratings down to 1/3rd. We did it that way in the previous topic too!
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Final Fantasy 7: Due to 'too many replays', I'm kinda particular about how I play FFVII and tend to favor Materia growth way more than is probably objectively justifiable.
Cloud Strife: 7/10.
Barret Wallace: 4/10.
Tifa Lockheart: 5/10.
Aeris Gainsborough: 6/10.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6/10.
Cait Sith: 4/10. I suck so bad at Slots.
Vincent Valentine: 3/10.
Cid Highwind: 6/10.
Not confident enough in my monster knowledge to rate those.
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Neither am I, no monsters for me.
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 8/10 - Omnislash, best character in the game.
Barret Wallace: 6/10 - The midgar parts help his score.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10 - Limits pretty good.
Aeris Gainsborough: 4/10 - I think its in the graveyard place you can steal a rod for her that really upgrades her attack something fierce, with it she is the best pc for a while but thats really all she has. Is temp and sucks up xp.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 4/10 - Sucky limits.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10 - Doom of the living is pretty rad.
Cait Sith: 5/10 - Point for the materia he comes with as it really helps with getting enemy skills.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10 - Sucks badly.
Cid Highwind: 4/10 - Gotten late but isn't that bad.
Write ins:
Young cloud/Zack: 0/10 - Useless, is overkilled by everyone and everything.
Sephiroth: 10/10 - Completely unbeatable overkilling white haired pretty boy killing machine.
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Yay! I <3 this topic! I hope we don't lose it all in the forum move!
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.5 - Consistently good equipment and limit options. Good availability. Good starting materia. Not much to complain about, but nothing really game-breaking in a system like this.
Barret Wallace: 6.5 - Decent availability, durability, and innately Long-Range.
Tifa Lockheart: 7 - Consistently good limit break and availability. Ultimate weapon is pretty awesome for making fun physical builds.
Aeris Gainsborough: 5 - Not a terrible temp! Decent mage stats and the Limits are actually useful early on. Far better as a temp than a DL character.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6 - Multi-hitting limit and decent mage stats?
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6.5 - Good limits and ultimate weapon, decent starting materia, innate Long Range.. but recruitment is kind of obscure (if this wasn't FF7) and she's little frail.
Cait Sith: 4 - Uh... good starting materia?
Vincent Valentine: 3.5 - lol Vincent. Crappy stats and availability and obscure recruitment. Even more obscure final limit break than most.
Cid Highwind: 4 - Just kinda average? No really good starting materia or limits or ultimate weapon, but he's fine?
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10. Gets the job done and well.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Eh, never found him all that great.
Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. Once I got the hang of her limit, she was better.
Aeris Gainsborough: 4/10. Would be a 6 or maybe a 7 if she was around the whole game.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10. My go to guy for magery.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6/10. Cloud + any two of Red/Yuffie/Tifa was my standard lineup for a reason.
Cait Sith: 3/10. Tifa's reels I could do. His slots, not so much.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. I'm kinda leery giving him the same score as Cait Sith, but...I don't quiiiite think he's a 2. EDIT: No, now that I think about it, he IS a 2. And has an argument to be a 1. If you don't know everything about the game, you can fuck yourself over using him. Like using his first limit against a boss that absorbs fire. First time playing, no guide, no internet for FAQing(only got Vincent because a freind told me how), yeah it's entirely reasonable to hit the limit and suddenly watch a boss become nearly unbeatable, unless you kill Vincent off yourself. That's worth calling him worst char in the game.
Cid Highwind: 5/10. Not bad, but not great.
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2/10. Damage they've got. Availability, not so much.
Bird: 3/10. Mobility or something at the very least.
Bomb: 3/10. Early enough at least, and they aren't all that bad.
Bull Demon: 3/10. Sacreds are actually kinda fun, and I admit I'm prolly overrating them here.
Cat: 3/10. Feels on that Bird/Bomb level of usability.
Chocobo: 6/10. Mostly the reds here, of course. Get a good red chicken and you know what? It's actually a fairly competent party member.
Dragon: 5/10. I've gotten some use out of the reds and blues. I wouldn't say they're bad, just not usually worth bothering since FFT has so much better(in human units, of course).
Floating Eye: Abstain/10. Never bothered with them much.
Ghost: 1/10. There's some theoretical use to them I'm sure. I just object as a rule to party members I can't heal.
Goblin: 2/10. Uh...a black gobbo can be decent early? I guess? Enough to save it from a 1 anyway.
Hydra: 6/10. So much better then even the chickens, but availability issues. I'll give 'em a 6 anyway, since when they get going they really take off.
Marlboro: Abstain/10. I don't remember exactly how effective thier shtick is in FFT.
Skeleton: 1/10. See Ghost really.
Squid: 2/10. Eh...equivilent to goblin sounds about right.
Tree: 1/10. Doesn't exist, not that great.
Uribo: 1/10. Doesn't exist, not that great outside of Wildbow physicals.
Warning: FFT monster stuff pulled out of "I just woke up" memory. Also, I haven't played vanilla in awhile and hadn't messed with monsters much in even longer.
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Note: I tend to do speedruns, so my FF7 views are probably pretty screwed. (See: Aeris; Yuffie) Also, they're all kinda generic so scores have been spread a little.
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 6/10. Kinda average limits for the first two levels and not amazing on the stats. If he weren't forced, I wouldn't use him.
Barret Wallace: 3/10. Tanks well enough, but that's about it. Long range weapon is good, bad magic stat is not.
Tifa Lockheart: 4/10. Limits aren't terrible by endgame, but take waaaay too long to get there. Stats aren't terrible but aren't amazing throughout?
Aeris Gainsborough: 6/10. Feels kinda weird giving her this high a score thanks to tempiness, but she's got a ridiculous magic stat and some of the best early-game limits there are. (Also some of the best lategame, but like you ever see those.)
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10. Decent magic and solid limits throughout. Nothing amazing spectacular, but nothing bad.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 4/10. Penalising her for obscurity first. Stupid conversation. Past that, some decent limits, but mostly late ones, and a nice niche in Conformer. Pure lategame, but decent at it.
Cait Sith: 3/10. See Barret, replace long range with decent strength.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. Uhm. What does Vincent do again? Awful Limits and kinda weak/frail.
Cid Highwind: 4/10. See Red, take out the decent magic and make him a little later.
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10.
Barret Wallace: 5/10.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10.
Aeris Gainsborough: 4/10
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10.
Cait Sith: 4/10.
Vincent Valentine: 1.5/10.
Cid Highwind: 5/10.
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 3/10.
Bird: 4/10.
Bomb: 2/10.
Bull Demon: 3/10.
Cat: 3/10.
Chocobo: 6/10.
Dragon: 5/10.
Floating Eye: 5/10.
Ghost: 3/10.
Goblin: 2/10.
Hydra: 7/10.
Marlboro: 0.5/10.
Skeleton: 1/10
Squid: 2/10.
Tree: 0/10.
Uribo: 0.5/10.
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.5/10. Obviously the best within the system (great limits at all levels but 2, best magic stat) but everyone tends towards generic.
Barret Wallace: 5.5/10. Good strength and HP. Magic and limits could be better.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10. Best limits for ST rape, decent otherwise.
Aeris Gainsborough: 3.5/10. Don't recall her magic being notable outside the Princess Guard, though it's still decent. Otherwise has some issues.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5.5/10. Decent all-rounder with a neat niche limit or two and decent stats everywhere.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10. Great lategame, meh before then, but at least has range.
Cait Sith: 6/10. High HP and magic is good.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. Okay Vincent kinda sucks.
Cid Highwind: 4/10. Not terrible but generally kinda subpar.
I'm pretty much rating monsters on their final form, most forms before final forms are 1/10 at best (except chocobos and hydras).
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.5/10. Dark Behemoths are okay at their one-dimension, but it's still one dimension.
Bird: 4/10. I randomly fanboy over birds due to the mobility and three decent options (stone, strong physical, ranged magic chipping). Deal with it.
Bomb: 1.5/10. Bad.
Bull Demon: 1.5/10. You want to use a Behemoth if you're considering this. Or heck, various others have comparable, PA, like...
Cat: 3/10. A much less mobile bird with more HP and a bit of range on their stone in exchange for accuracy. Losing trade but they're kinda okay.
Chocobo: 4/10. Reds are very solid ranged snipers. Black has some occasional use as a ferry, too, though terrible stats.
Dragon: 3/10. Okay all-around, nice if you can snag a weakness, but still stuck with all the usual monster limits.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They can fly but not really do much great. Randostatus woo.
Ghost: 3/10. Well drain touch rapes bosses somewhat at least.
Goblin: 1/10. Are awful.
Hydra: 5/10. Hey Tiamats are actually legitly badass, murdering things dead while being tanky and having fly. As good as a monster gets, obviously.
Marlboro: 1.5/10. Bad. Wooo crappy status option.
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Goblin with a ranged option.
Squid: 1.5/10. Mind Blast is so much more useful in enemy hands than yours.
Tree: 0.5/10. Oh god trees. Not a 0 because they're easier to get than mimes.
Uribo: 1.5/10. No mobility or durability, but hey they have some power and status if they reach an enemy alive at least!
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10.
Barret Wallace: 5/10.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10.
Aeris Gainsborough:
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10.
Cait Sith: 4/10.
Vincent Valentine: 1.5/10.
Cid Highwind: 5/10.
Abstain on FFT monsters, never used one and can't really remember what they did in vanilla besides fail.
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Final Fantasy 7: 6/10
Cloud Strife: 8/10 Forced and best of the cast, functional limists pretty much all round, L1s aren't special, but no ones L1s are, from there he gets servicable damage and MT that will probably kill most enemies at the start of the game (Blade Beam is good early game! Enemies are horrible early game!), L3s are good and Omnislash is pretty much exactly what you want from an L4
Barret Wallace: 4/10 Bad limits. Variety in them, but bad. Wants a remake where you don't pick a level of limit to use but have it be a progressive bar that all limits are gradually available on
Tifa Lockheart: 5/10 Does the job, middling limit really.
Aeris Gainsborough: 2/10 You could use her, I don't know why you would as using her just costs you time spent building up the limit of someone you could use. Temps are bad in games where you get things from raw kill value.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10 His best limit is early on, no real reason to use anything after L2 on him. Until you get Cosmo Candle you get MT Haste which is pretty awesome early in the game.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10 Ranged weapons and a MT L1 healing limit!
Cait Sith: 4/10 His worth is entirely DL wise.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10 Obscure and bad! Late as well! I have used him most games I have played but that is because shoot some dudes.
Cid Highwind: 3/10 Get him late. The hype online for his 3x growth weapon is annoying as fuck because a 2x weapon with more slots is more economical which other characters get.
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters: 0/10
Behemoth: 0/10
Bird: 0/10
Bomb: 0/10
Bull Demon: 0/10
Cat: 0/10
Chocobo: 0/10
Dragon: 0/10
Floating Eye: 0/10
Ghost: 0/10
Goblin: 0/10
Hydra: 0/10
Marlboro: 0/10
Skeleton: 0/10
Squid: 0/10
Tree: 0/10
Uribo: 0/10
In game use gets no credit for poaching and you shouldn't use monsters in regular FFT ever.
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The differences between characters is pretty minor in FF7, not that this is news, so flat curve.
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10. Best fighter, second-best mage, good equips, good limits.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Tank, decent back-row damage. Shame that it's magic that mostly breaks the game.
Tifa Lockheart: 4/10. Just not all that amazing stat-wise, and I wasn't very good at Slots.
Aeris Gainsborough: 7/10. Best mage, and while she generally stays stuck at level-1 limits due to not being around long enough to get her cheatyface high-level limits, her L1s are great as well. Penalizing her for leaving early seems silly - given a choice between having her sometimes and having her never, she's awesome enough that you clearly want her around.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10. Red-mage so balanced. Sure.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6/10. Good limits, back-row damage for free.
Cait Sith: (no ranking) I never really used Cait Sith, since he's a giant third wheel with the worst excuse to join of any character and you can only use 3 characters anyway. Plus meh at Cait's slots. Good HP looked like, though, aside from the limit annoyance.
Vincent Valentine: 4/10. Uh. Back row DEATHBLOW hype on his 255 accuracy weapons? Anyone? Yeah, limits being uncontrollable is flavorful but not actually helpful in game.
Cid Highwind: 5/10. Somewhere inbetween Barret and Red I guess. Sure.
FFT monsters:
Chocobo: 4/10
Hydra: 4/10
Everything else: DNR
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Penalizing her for leaving early seems silly - given a choice between having her sometimes and having her never, she's awesome enough that you clearly want her around.
It's not quite that simple - using her means other characters aren't getting as many kills, so you're slowing their limit growth. It's not exactly the end of the world if you do this, but then again, her mag stat advantage isn't that impressive either (welcome to FF7) so I wouldn't say I particularly agree with your last comment there.
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Oh, I understand the argument, but I don't think it's a big deal. If FF7 was a game where the difficulty started easy and spiked late and building high level limits was crucial for your success, I'd agree, because using Aeris really would be kill-stealing and making the second half of the game harder than it should. However, limits aren't THAT important, and more importantly if the difficulty curve bends in any direction, it's that the game gets easier as it goes on. So I don't think it's worth penalizing Aeris for.
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Another character's limits mean far more than than her Magic stat or her L1 limit in a game with strong Cure spells. Alternately you can use Yuffie who has better L1 options. Damage option on L1 limit >>>>>>>>>> Seal Evil.
I penalise anyone for leaving when the topic is about in game use, especially where using them is straight up detrimental in anyway for something that matters in game. If the character isn't there for half 2/3 of the game when there is a character that will be there for the whole game, they have less in game use.
The character may not be useless, but they are less useful than the other options.
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Gref/NEB - Doesn't Fury Brand spam helping allies get their second limits for each level (the usage ones - by enabling them to use them more often in one battle) balance that out some what? I think it's even possible to get the usage limits before the kill ones though I'm not 100% sure on that. I think what I did was spam FB until the third ally had all their usage ones (not all in one battle for all three obviously), then switched another ally in and so on.
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Not especially, you have to grind to get overly far unlocked in Disc 1, you might unlock second tier L2s early on two characters if you had been using them exclusively since Midgard, certainly something I would reccomend. But the later that character would be recruited the less chance you have of them having it (yuffie for example). For Fury Brand to be something I would really praise to high heavens you would need to be working on L3s by then which is a bit excessive, alternately, she would need to be around for longer. All that gets you is unlocking things you will get fairly organically anyway at the price of the kills it took Aeris to unlock. Delay one thing to unlock something else earlier.
There is certainly things you can go out of your way to do to make her more useful. It does involves a terrible amount of grinding though. None of that makes her more useful in regular play though.
Considering there is characters who's second limits on some levels honestly aren't even worth caring about (WHAT UP HAMMER BLOW), it doesn't really help the situation.
The more you grind the more you use you will get out of Fury Brand.
Edit - Oh my I had forgot it was the second L2 she learns as well MT Status healing (Haha), that is not good at all.
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Aerith's Limits have a few other things going against them too:
First off, she has the highest HP Threshold for her level 1 limits, meaning she takes longest to get her level 1-2. Not a big deal, but its there.
Lacking any offensive Limits whatsoever means she lacks any way to do MPless damage if her Limit Gauge is filled until you get Deathblow. Deathblow is also pretty iffy on characters not Vincent in Disc 1, naturally, especially a character like Aerith who has bad strength, and no ranged weapons. Umbrella can help offset that, but its not only a pain in the ass to get, it really limits her Materia options; you don't get Edincoat until right before Temple of Ancients, which would be enough to offset it, but also means she can't link any Materia too. And even then, you get the Seraph Comb only one dungeon after, so if you're using a physical twink, you're using Red XIII, whose got higher strength, a stronger weapon, and said weapon has Materia Slots. I may seem to be blowing this out of proportion due to how much I say about it, but that's more just being a detail whore; its not a MAJOR point, so don't assume I'm trying to make it seem like such, I apologize.
Grefter covered the problems with The level 2 Limit. She does, to her credit, need to use Breath of Earth less than other characters need to use their level 2-1's, but this is offset by how BAD Breath of Earth is. To make matters worse, Breath of Earth can actually be used against you. The real issue is of course that Breath of Earth is hands down the WORST LIMIT IN THE GAME, and its a level 2-1, so you have to use it, unlike Hammer Blow, Dragon and Climhazzard, which come after semi-competent limits. Red XIII's the only character stuck with a shitty 2-1 Limit, but I'd take Blood fang over Breath of Earth
Regarding FF7 Magic Differences...
They are, for the most part, minor until late in the game. They exist, but only in extremes like Cloud vs. Barret. Aerith's edge over, say, Yuffie or Cait Sith isn't significant until Princess Guard (which has a firm Magic Bonus), and you have such a brief window where that's worth anything. Cait Sith has HP and quirky limits at least, and Yuffie has a ranged weapon, and late game pay offs, and more conventional limits. It doesn't help Aerith that Red XIII's Seraph Comb is gotten so early and kicks the crap out of everything on Magic Boosts at the time (its got 14, everything before then has single digits), thereby lowering her edge that much.
You'll note this is because late game, Magic boosts spike from weapons, and the differences start to show off.
When Aerith leaves, for example, disregarding Princess Guard, you're using Wutai Weapons lets say. The magic boosts are ranging from 10 to 14, 4 points sounds high until you realize its only Tifa and Barret she really has this edge on. Furthermore, Caith Sith's Silver M-phone is
Frankly, Aerith's best argument for her mage worth if you ask me?
Fairy Tale. Early gotten 7 Materia slot weapon when you're using things with 4 slots, and offers no penalties on magic relative to other options. Unfortunately, this edge is somewhat undermined later on when Cait Sith gets the Silver M-phone, which has 8 slots, 14 Magic relative to the Fairy Tale's 8, on a character whose got a solid Magic stat as is, let alone has higher HP, and is a permanent PC. If you ask me, this is pretty much a deathblow on Aerith's use, unless you want to use as much Materia as possible at once.
Also, talk of Materia slots reminds me that people are forgetting one major advantage Cid has going for him:
Dragoon Lance. Gotten in Wutai, 66 Power (This is STRONGER than his Mideel weapon, I should note) and 8 Materia Slots. If there's ever a weapon that would be a "Saving Grace" to a character's use, at least mid game, it'd be that, as far as FF7 goes.
Worth noting that other 8 Materia Slot weapons are generally worse (Cloud's Enhanced Sword has like 43 Power, for reference), or gotten much later like Vincent's Outsider.
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There is certainly things you can go out of your way to do to make her more useful.
And herein lies the problem.
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Another character's limits mean far more than than her Magic stat or her L1 limit in a game with strong Cure spells. Alternately you can use Yuffie who has better L1 options. Damage option on L1 limit >>>>>>>>>> Seal Evil.
Seal Evil works on bosses like the safe dude in Nibelheim. I'm pretty willing to hype it.
I penalise anyone for leaving when the topic is about in game use, especially where using them is straight up detrimental in anyway for something that matters in game. If the character isn't there for half 2/3 of the game when there is a character that will be there for the whole game, they have less in game use.
The character may not be useless, but they are less useful than the other options.
Lenneth in VP2 for 2/10 rating? Dunno, like I said, I'd see your point if the kill-stealing was a big deal, and fine, you think limits are important. But level is pretty autobalanced (people not in the party get what, 80% XP? It's not much of a penalty), and Meeple already brought up the hype I'd add on why Aeris being a good mage matters - she can equip a zillion materia. (Which will help later, I suppose, since the materia will keep its levels.) Aside from the kill-stealing bit, there's really nothing *wrong* with using her - it's not like a Fire Emblem game where she'd be massively stealing XP from people you could use later.
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Seal Evil is worth some limited hype, if you ask me (although it's not something I'd trade a 3x physical for, let alone Tifa's 5.25x at psychotic speed); it's Healing Wind that's worthless. Oh yay a limit that mimics Recover-All, because I'm totally not using that already. I guess it has some priority so it can get past boss multi-acting against Jenova-BIRTH and Demons Gate? Maybe. To be quite honest I think Aeris is best played under Sadness anyway, and the best hype for her would centre around how good that status is, which makes limit differences less important.
Idly, I definitely don't think that FF7 is relatively harder when Aeris is around. North Crater is like the only dungeon in the game that doesn't suck. Bosses are a bit more balanced, and I wouldn't hype a major challenge gap overall. That said, I think Aeris' advantages and disadvantages are both pretty minor outside her bad limits.
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Honestly I'd peg Demon Wall as the single hardest boss in the game (albeit, Safer would be better if not for the top end summons), for all that without outright grinding Aeris doesn't really shine there anyway (with, L4 limit comes into play, it's shiny.) That said, my experience is that, unless you're using Barret or Red long term, you don't fall too terribly far behind on limits when using Aeris, so I just juged her on her usefulness while she's around myself.
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10. He's a strong PC with good stats everywhere, good limits and some really awesome materia focused weapons. Can't say no to that combination. Unfortunately, he's stuck in FF7 which means a 7 is the highest it goes.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Long range adds to the HP, so he tends to be able to absorb punishment. Otherwise, magic is bad, and see Grefter on his limits.
Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. There's some hilarious destructive set ups you can use with Tifa (Powersoul), and her limits are great for ST damage, made better by the fact that she can afford setting a lower limit level to get them faster without losing too much on power.
Aeris Gainsborough: 3/10. She's not horrible, but underwhelming certainly. The magic edge needs to appear much earlier. This kinda got emphasized when I was using her on my class game.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10. Solid stats all around at the cost of some garbage limits. A good trade most of the time. And his early limits aren't terrible - only the later ones really lose steam to everyone else's
Yuffie Kisaragi: 4/10. Yuffie feels like she's good starting out and good late, but the middle portion of the game she just lags horribly. Conformer is an awesome weapon.
Cait Sith: 5/10. Decent. I kinda wish Cait did get a stronger limit since Slots. But as is, Slots isn't *horrible*, and being of a lower level means he gets it more often and its certainly decent enough. Good HP too.
Vincent Valentine: 1/10. Suck. Vincent's only "use" I can think of is that he can overload the damage barrier much earlier than Barret or anyone else. This then allows him to kill anything in a hit because of FF7 pro coding. Otherwise, he has no reason to be used ever.
Cid Highwind: 5/10. Cid's pretty average all things considered. His big selling point are the materia growth weapons (Dragoon Lance, Javelin has probably game best overall growth, Scimitar), which often times is enough for me to consider a spot for him. MT Level 1 limit is worth mentioning too I guess.
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 3/10. Is a super Knight, which means they do that well and kinda suck otherwise.
Bird: 5.5/10. One of the better monster classes. Mobile, can fly and has utility uses (see NEB here)
Bomb: 1.5/10. Pretty bad.
Bull Demon: 1/10. Eeeeeeew. Bull Demons are basically Behemoths with 1 less move and some garbage skills. Even Knight is better.
Cat: 3/10. Blaster's pretty awesome. So is BLOOD SUCK.
Chocobo: 6/10. The best monster not called a Hydra. Mobile, you can ride on them and Choco Meteor is pretty brutal when there's a pack of them.
Dragon: 3/10. See Behemoths. Except you get breaths in exchange for some power.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They at least Fly. Randostatus isn't worth much, but its better than the 1s.
Ghost: 2/10. Well they teleport and some of the touches are pretty good. They're lackluster everywhere else and are made of paper though. And ew relying on undead revival.
Goblin: 1/10. Suck. But at least they're available early
Hydra: 5/10. Would be the best monster if not for the fact that they're available super late. Bonus for being able to be used in conjunction with Reis
Marlboro: 1/10. Pretty unremarkable. Well they WALK ON WATER OMG. Otherwise hohoho crappy status or requires Monster Skill = blargh
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Suck with range.
Squid: 1/10. I remember them having some bizarre gimmick use that wasn't totally worthless. They're also not as bad as Trees.
Tree: 0.5/10. Suck, but at least they don't take 20 hours to get!
Uribo: 1.5/10. Poaching them is worthwhile at least. Otherwise, they have some power, but ew to everything else.
EDIT NOTE: Meeple, I recommend doing WAs next :|. This round of rankings was pretty apathetic to me.
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lol me giving opinions on FF7. Can't be bothered to care, Cloud 7 Red 6 everyone else 4.5 or something woo minor-feeling stat differences outside of Mag and an ability usable once every ten+ fights on average. (I get why others care! I just... don't. So I won't rank and pollute the averages.)
buuuurp copying Elfboy (w/ revisions)
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.5/10. Dark Behemoths are okay at their one-dimension, but it's still one dimension.
Bird: 4.5/10. I randomly fanboy over birds due to the mobility and three decent options (stone, strong physical, ranged magic chipping). Deal with it x2.
Bomb: 1.5/10. Bad.
Bull Demon: 2/10. You want to use a Behemoth if you're considering this (though Toro irrationally likes Gather Power). Or heck, various others have comparable, PA, like...
Cat: 3.5/10. A much less mobile bird with more HP and a bit of range on their stone in exchange for accuracy. Losing trade but they're kinda okay.
Chocobo: 5.5/10. Reds are very solid ranged snipers. Black has some occasional use as a ferry, too, though terrible stats. Easy to get saves them from below average.
Dragon: 2/10. Okay all-around, nice if you can snag a weakness, but still stuck with all the usual monster limits.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They can fly but not really do much great. Randostatus woo.
Ghost: 3/10. Well drain touch rapes bosses somewhat at least.
Goblin: 1.5/10. Are awful. Touch
Hydra: 2/10. Hey Tiamats are actually legitly badass, murdering things dead while being tanky and having fly. As good as a monster gets, obviously. ...except accessibility. Easily the best monster! But rare as shit unless you know where to go which I'm not feeling charitable about right now.
Marlboro: 1/10. Bad. Wooo crappy status option. Rarer than goblins/skeletons.
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Goblin with a ranged option.
Squid: 1/10. Mind Blast is so much more useful in enemy hands than yours. Much, much more.
Tree: 0.5/10. Oh god trees. Not a 0 because they're easier to get than mimes.
Uribo: 0.5/10. No mobility or durability, but hey they have some power and status if they reach an enemy alive at least! Better than Mime but availability woes.
Aviary supremacy.
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I do not care much for monsters, hence only doing an FF7 ranking. Mainly based on end-game since that is where most of the time is spent.
FF7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10 He's okay. Strong attacks, good magic, amazing limits. Nonetheless, when in this games mechanics it doesn't mean all that much.
Barret Wallace: 6/10. Long range, good HP, decent attacks. Limits suck up to the 3-2, which if properly twinked can be amazing due to it being multi-hit. Gets another point for being the easier of two characters to get into OHKO-Overflow.
Tifa Lockheart: 3/10 I'm not a fan of goddamn slots.
Aeris Gainsborough: 2/10 Just no. She is decent though if you want to BREAK THE GAME by getting the Midgar Zolom's enemy tech very, very early with her final limit.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10. Single best mid-game character but falls off later on.
Vincent: 1/10 You sir, suck.
Yuffie: 6/10 Conformer is awesome.
Cid: 5.5/10 All around decent character, .5 for having a great final limit but requiring a high HP threshold.
The hell with the rest.
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You uh can get that the first time you get to the Chocobo Ranch which is well before you can get her final limit... She is useful there though, free 50% healing is actually potentially useful there, but almost anyone with a limit turn and Cure materia will do the job.
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.5/10. Yeah, game best PC. Best overall stats, good weapon selection, and good Limits outside of his Level 2's (and Blade Beam isn't THAT bad). Problem is, as was said, this is FF7, so there's too much genericness to really get much higher.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Mind Blow is a cool limit for someone like Rapps for completely gunning down offense, and he's a good ranged tank. If only there was more reason to care about that in FF7. I'm a big undecided on his Ultimate; on one hand, its easy to build, but it comes at the cost of possibly gimping other PCs since you're giving him a lot of the high level Materia. Its also gotten later than most Ultimates (HAS to be gotten right before Hojo, so its pretty much Disc 3 only.)
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10. Strong limits, and the only character who can actually run physical twink set ups THAT DON'T SUCK the entire game, let alone using a 4 Slotted Double Growth Weapon, and Master Fist is good if you want actual Materia Slots + Growth, and raw damage, and one of the best Ultimates in the game if you know how to set up around it, due to a Higher Mult and runs off a stat you can keep relatively static (well, when its maxed anyway)
Aeris Gainsborough: 3/10. If she was a permanent PC, she'd probably be closer to 5/10. As it stands, using her does hurt your team a little as its that many kills she's stealing from other permanent party members for more limits. She does make a good mage, not so much cause of her magic (which doesn't hurt), but because of the Fairy Tale as I noted, but that gets undermined later on. Her later limit hype baffles me cause to get to the first really interesting one (Fury Brand), you're stuck with the SINGLE WORST LIMIT IN THE ENTIRE GAME, and without massive grinding, she's NOT getting Pulse of Life/Planet Protector. And no, I don't respect her physical with the Umbrella. Her game worst strength offsets it, and has NO MATERIA SLOTS.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10. Lunatic High is a cool early limit if gotten before Time+All, Seraph Comb makes him a strong physical fighter on Disc 1 WITHOUT compromising his Materia slots much the way the Umbrella does (not to mention on a character who doesn't have Game Worst Strength), gets the first Double Growth weapon in the game I believe, and otherwise a flexible PC, who beyond the Seraph Comb ownage stage, doesn't stand out much. Well, ok, Stardust Ray is pretty bad ass, but unfortunately, its guarded by BLOOD FANG >_<
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5.5/10. All Ranged Weapons is cool, Limits are generally good outside of her Level 4, and probably the best overall Ultimate in the game due to how it likes it ignore Multiplier Penalties (I believe it ignores 4x Cut's damage*0.67 per hit factor, so it actually is 4x damage!)
Cait Sith: 5/10. A better Aeris, in the grand scheme of things. Silver M-phone = Fairy Tale+, stats with that on basically become "Aeris with more HP", Slots basically gives him Pulse of Life MUCH earlier if you can get timing down, and to top it off? He's a permanent PC.
Vincent Valentine: 3/10. Back Row weapons worth something, being one of the only PCs with linked Double Growth slots is neat, and Sniper CR + Deathblow is kind of OK for MPless damage, though doesn't last. Limits are cool early game, but don't last. Outsider is a cool weapon at least, though doesn't completely make up for his ass-tacular ultimate.
Cid Highwind: 4.5/10. People are underselling him a bit, cause I said before, the Dragoon Lance is really bad ass and deserves mention for how early it is. Though, that and his neat Game Best Growth Weapons are really all he has going for him, as his limits are generic, and doesn't have any real gimmick factors outside of that.
Since its FF7, I can't give anyone lower than a 3, barring maybe Aeris due to her nature, but at the same time, I can't give anyone much higher than a 7 (Cloud got 7.5, yes, but that's cause he's really undeniable game best PC, but not by enough to garner him a full extra point)
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.5/10. Dark Behemoths are okay at their one-dimension, but it's still one dimension.
Bird: 4/10. I randomly fanboy over birds due to the mobility and three decent options (stone, strong physical, ranged magic chipping). Deal with it.
Bomb: 1.5/10. Bad.
Bull Demon: 1.5/10. You want to use a Behemoth if you're considering this. Or heck, various others have comparable, PA, like...
Cat: 3/10. A much less mobile bird with more HP and a bit of range on their stone in exchange for accuracy. Losing trade but they're kinda okay.
Chocobo: 4/10. Reds are very solid ranged snipers. Black has some occasional use as a ferry, too, though terrible stats.
Dragon: 3/10. Okay all-around, nice if you can snag a weakness, but still stuck with all the usual monster limits.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They can fly but not really do much great. Randostatus woo.
Ghost: 3/10. Well drain touch rapes bosses somewhat at least.
Goblin: 1/10. Are awful.
Hydra: 5/10. Hey Tiamats are actually legitly badass, murdering things dead while being tanky and having fly. As good as a monster gets, obviously.
Marlboro: 1.5/10. Bad. Wooo crappy status option.
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Goblin with a ranged option.
Squid: 1.5/10. Mind Blast is so much more useful in enemy hands than yours.
Tree: 0.5/10. Oh god trees. Not a 0 because they're easier to get than mimes.
Uribo: 1.5/10. No mobility or durability, but hey they have some power and status if they reach an enemy alive at least!
I don't do this often, but I pretty much agree with Elfboy, and trust his opinion more than mine on this subject!
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Regarding Midgar Zolom? First off, I have to note Grefter that her level 3-2 Limit is also invincibility (Planet Protector), it just doesn't have the "Free Megalixir!" effect Great Gospel has.
BUt more importantly, you can get Beta ASAP without using Aeris. She's probably best as the 3rd PC there just cause of the extra back up healing, admittedly, but she's not necessary.
To do so, give Barret Elemental + Fire on his Armor, Sadness Status, and for extra insurance, the Talisman (Or whatever +10 Spirit accessory is called); the first two are mandatory, the latter is not. Obviously, give him Enemy Skill too. Additionally, don't give him any more Magic Materia than is necessary lest you'll compensate his HP.
Put everyone in back row, have someone NOT Barret cast Poison until Midgar Zolom is poisoned, and use Sense on him once (I believe this makes the Assist function display his HP now in addition to his name when you're targetting); play defensively and let Poison do all the work until he's about 20% of the way til dead. HIt him once, he'll go into the uncoiled mode. At this point, its all luck, since if he Ejects Barret, you're screwed, and you need to time things right such that after being hit with Beta, kill him immediately (you'll probably have a Limit ready), or Heal Barret, and wait for Poison to finish him off.
Yeah, its a pain in the ass and can take a while, since there's a luck factor (see the Ejection part), but its certainly doable without her; Healing Wind is an extra insurance policy there, nothing more.
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Pretty much, but 2/3 chance of working when you know what you are doing isn't that bad and you don't even need to go terribly out of your way to do it (don't need to use Barret, pretty much anyone will work to be honest in normal level ranges. Just have to remember to strip them of unnecessary magic Materia so they don't have -HP multipliers out the arse like you will most of the time in early FF7). Early Beta is good times.
Also yes Red does get the first double growth weapon. Magic Comb from the first Fort Condor fight. Not really that much before Cloud will get Force Stealer, but still noteworthy (because 3 extra slots of double growth is nice). Only a difference of whatever randoms you get into on the way to and from Junon from the Fort (depending on how attached to a Peace Ring and an Ether you are) and the bubble casting boss fight.
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I do not care much for monsters, hence only doing an FF7 ranking. Mainly based on end-game since that is where most of the time is spent.
If you can't tell from this thread, everyone hates monsters.
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 8/10. Best PC, kind of a given. Personally I found all of his Limits useful. It's way easier to charge the low level ones, and Cross Slash is mad awesome. Granted, Omnislash is still pretty much the best non-KOTR attack in the game.
Barret Wallace: 6/10. Good durability, which doesn't mean a lot but is still nice. Also has useful Limits.
Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. Great for late game twinking, but very frail and somewhat weaker than other characters earlier on.
Aeris Gainsborough: 1/10 - Her temp status really kills it for me personally. Yuffie's better for the whole Limit healing thing.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10. He's great when the Seraph Comb is still good, but I never found him useful outside of it. I'm surprised by all the magic hype in the comments here, I find Green materia near worthless and Summons not worth the animation time.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 7/10. Awesome back row weapons, Conformer rules, awesome Limits. Not quite as good as Cloud.
Cait Sith: 5/10. Again, lower level Limits are easier to charge. Dice is great for cheap damage throughout the game, and he really doesn't fall off until the end.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. He's not unusable, but his Limits are awful in a game where that matters.
Cid Highwind: 5/10. Nothing special.
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 3/10. Actually pretty good, but just too inflexible.
Bird: 3/10.
Bomb: 1/10
Bull Demon: 2/10
Cat: 3/10.
Chocobo: 6/10. Best monster in terms of usability. Yellows and Reds are both great to have until endgame (and are still somewhat useful there). Choco Meteor is great until you get Math Skill and stuff.
Dragon: 2/10
Floating Eye: 1/10.
Ghost: 2/10. Early Teleport is cool
Goblin: 1/10.
Hydra: 4/10. Impractical but really powerful and can break the damage cap with 3 hits technically.
Marlboro: 1/10.
Skeleton: 1/10. Hey they're awesome in LFT!
Squid: 1/10. You'd think Mind Blast would make them worth it.
Tree: 1/10.
Uribo: 1/10. Poaching yay
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Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. Great for late game twinking, but very frail and somewhat weaker than other characters earlier on.
I find it hard to call Tifa "Frail" when the Vitality and Spirit Differences characters have is so minor, and HP Variance is about 10% over the cast, such that a single Materia difference can shift things. I'll refrain from commenting on others, but FF7 Durability differences are so small, that's one of the reasons I noted with Barret "Its hard to care about that in FF7"
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Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. Great for late game twinking, but very frail and somewhat weaker than other characters earlier on.
I find it hard to call Tifa "Frail" when the Vitality and Spirit Differences characters have is so minor, and HP Variance is about 10% over the cast, such that a single Materia difference can shift things. I'll refrain from commenting on others, but FF7 Durability differences are so small, that's one of the reasons I noted with Barret "Its hard to care about that in FF7"
Maybe it's just me, but I always had trouble with Tifa constantly being put at critical in the front row (mainly early on).
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Early on, she's underleveled relative to Cloud and Barret, and those two have among the higher HP scores in the game (well, Barret's #2 at least after Cait Sith; I'm guessing Cloud's is good too, just cause "He's Cloud, he's good at everything!")
FF7's Defense system is identical to FF6's, except it runs off a 511 denominator, instead of 255. With both lower defense scores, numerically speaking, and a higher denominator relative to FF6, defense differences are far less noticeable, and each individual point matters half as much (so its unlikely the growth variance is playing into this.)
Also, its important to remember what Materia you're giving everyone. If for whatever reason Tifa has more Magic Materia than the other 2 Party Members (Cloud and Barret, I suspect, since its "Early on"), her HP will be compensated as a result (while Materia stat changes are generally negligible, HP is the one stat which is impacted notably.)
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Early on, she's underleveled relative to Cloud and Barret, and those two have among the higher HP scores in the game (well, Barret's #2 at least after Cait Sith; I'm guessing Cloud's is good too, just cause "He's Cloud, he's good at everything!")
Actually, at lvl.99 with a perfect HP progression Barret is the only character that can hit 9999 HP without HP-Plus Materia. Earlier on yes, he lacks behind Cait Sith (not that I have the chart in front of me, going from memory here) but he ramps up past 60 at overtakes him for #1 HP.
I do not care much for monsters, hence only doing an FF7 ranking. Mainly based on end-game since that is where most of the time is spent.
If you can't tell from this thread, everyone hates monsters.
Reasonable. Monsters suck in FFT. The only one that is good for it's period is the Yellow Chocobo early on for instant-multi target healing. Tiamats may be given some bonus for being A) Badass and B)Pretty Decent, but by the time they are available, no monster could be better than a well-built Generic.
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For what it's worth, an in-game use discussion isn't going to care about levels past 60 much, so if Cait does lead earlier, then I think it'd be pretty legitimate to call him #1 in HP.
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Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.25
Barret Wallace: 5.07
Tifa Lockheart: 5.79
Aeris Gainsborough: 3.88
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5.32
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5.43
Cait Sith: 4.33
Vincent Valentine: 2.18
Cid Highwind: 4.64
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.31
Bird: 3.50
Bomb: 1.50
Bull Demon: 1.75
Cat: 2.69
Chocobo: 4.61
Dragon: 2.88
Floating Eye: 2.00
Ghost: 2.13
Goblin: 1.19
Hydra: 4.22
Marlboro: 0.93
Skeleton: 1.13
Squid: 1.25
Tree: 0.50
Uribo: 0.94
Best Rating of this Session: Cloud w/ 7.25
Worst Rating of this Session: Tree w/ 0.50
I'm legitimately impressed at Tree's rating, for the record.
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
5. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
6. Haar (FE10) 9.17
7t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
7t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
9. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
10. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
11. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
12. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
13. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
14. Tana (FE8) 8.73
15. Purim (SoM) 8.70
16. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
17. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
18t. Claude Kenni (SO2) 8.63
18t. Nailah (FE10) 8.63
20. Ike (FE10) 8.58
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Karla (FE7) 0.77
3. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
4. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
5. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
6. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
7. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
8. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
9. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
10. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
11. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
12. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
13. Squid (FFT) 1.25
14t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
14t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
16. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
17. Garret (FE6) 1.36
18t. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
18t. Bomb (FFT) 1.50
20. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell:
Gallows Caradine:
Jet Enduro:
Clive Winslett:
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki:
KOS-MOS:
Luis Virgil:
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy":
MOMO:
chaos:
Jr.:
Mary:
Generic Soldier In AGWS:
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Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 8.5 - Fast, evasive, ends up the best healer and mage in practice. Gatling wrecks things.
Gallows Caradine: 7 - Virginia light for the most part. Better durability, but worse speed. Losing trade to me.
Jet Enduro: 4.5 - Relies entirely on the customizability of the Mediums to be useful.
Clive Winslett: 6 - Damage! Not as overpowering as Raquel's, and Jet can technically do this job too with the right medium setup.
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki: 4.5 - Kinda meh. Half-point for ERDE KAISER!
KOS-MOS: 8.5 - Wreck someone's day.
Luis Virgil: 4 - Sucks as a temp.
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 6 - Damage! That's about it.
MOMO: 7.5 - Gets a lot of utility. Speedy, good mage/healer, has some unique options. Can't remember everything she did, but this may need to be higher.
chaos: 6 - Jesus was a decent PC. Backup healer, decent speed, good elemental coverage.
Jr.: 6.5 - Fast, some good support options and respectable damage.
Mary: I kinda ignored the AGWS aspect of all the PCs, so I'll just go with Abstain here.
Generic Soldier In AGWS: Abstain, same here.
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Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Uhh Mediums tended to be way more important than character stats IIRC. So their special ability + Gatling twinkability were all that kinda set them apart, and I hated using Gatling, so yeah. Flat curve.
Virginia Maxwell: 6/10 Mystic is a pretty good "oh shit" skill for bosses. Fast enough to use that MT healing, too.
Gallows Caradine: 6/10 - Uh best mage when magic isn't that great. Still.
Jet Enduro: 5/10 - Had decent damage and speed but I think only because I set him up to do that. Accelerate is nothing special.
Clive Winslett: 5/10 - More good damage, but bad speed. Clip size is a wee bit of an issue early.
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
XS1's niches were a bit narrow, and the skill-stealing meant that it felt like you could have an A Team of Shion - KOS-MOS - Jr. and a B team with MOMO - Ziggy - chaos. The B-team are hardly scrubs but they don't feel like they have enough reason to swap 'em in, really.
Shion Uzuki: 7/10 Shion was pretty solid. Lots of utility, etc. The fact that I sank ungodly skill points into Spell Ray (safe, she's around most of the time!) meant that she could pretty much OHKO most randoms, too.
KOS-MOS: 7/10 Damage, tankiness, brokenness, etc.
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 5/10 Ziggy's fine, just slow. The real issue is that he competes directly with KOS-MOS for a slot and Kossy is basically a bit better. If you had to split the party more, I'd have used him more (not that you don't split up some anyway).
MOMO: 4/10. MOMO is also fine, with some useful healing + revival + status, just... the durability is bad enough you probably need to back-row her. And she competes directly with Shion in XS1, who can actually be in the front row. So yeah. Not bad but outclassed.
chaos: 5/10 Chaos is also fine. Gets some MT attacks and all, just Jr. felt a bit better. (This seems to be a theme.)
Jr.: 6/10 Starts with solid MT physical damage (handy for boss Virgil!). Is fastish and solid. Pretty cool.
DNR everyone else.
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Base stats in WA3 made a huge difference, actually; it's quite different from FF8 in that regard. So I'd say there are pretty large differences between the characters that deserve a significantly wider range than 5-6 for the whole cast unless you think the PC balance was just that amazing.
Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 8.5/10. Gatling is good, mystic is better, speed and magic are solid too. Lategame you get Zephyr which is enough to OHKO just about anything off her/Gallows' stats but she's much faster.
Gallows Caradine: 7/10. Magic is pretty awesome. Not much to say here. Extend's not bad either. Low speed means he's losing a direct fight with Ginny but still hardly bad.
Jet Enduro: 3.5/10. He can be twinked to be decent, but usually not without costing someone else dearly. He needs a speed-booster to reliably go first, a damage-booster to not look pathetic in that regard, and his magic is unsalvageable. His stat niche is a difficult one to really get a good PC out of, but it's not impossible, and he can play various utility roles off above average speed well enough at worst.
Clive Winslett: 6.5/10. Slooow but really strong. Against things with no elemental weaknesses (before you get Weaken), Clive just has your best damage, and Lock-On means no amount of twinking lets Jet match against bosses. His performance in randoms is less impressive but he still can sometimes pull OHKOs nobody else can, off great accuracy, so it's not a total loss.
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki: She had the best skills but iffy stats (mostly durability). I think 6/10 works here.
KOS-MOS: 8.5/10. Smashes things very badly. Had way more damage than anyone else much of the time, and probably game-best durability to boot. She's also the game's best healer if you want her to do that! Speed's not wonderful, but otherwise, good stuff.
Luis Virgil: DNR.
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 4.5/10. Seemed to often kinda underwhelm on speed and damage. Durability at least, and had points where his damage was at least decent (nice elemental variety is something).
MOMO: 4/10. Awful durability without the great skillset Shion brings. Her offence gets quite good late but it's not amazing and you have to get her there.
chaos: 4/10. Kinda overall meh in most regards.
Jr.: 6/10. Would be unremarkable except ranged physical spoils certain enemy types and only he and MOMO get it. And he gets more of it / can actually take a hit or two.
Mary: DNR.
Generic Soldier In AGWS: DNR.
Pretty much agree on Snowfire's comments re: A team and B team in this game.
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Meeple: I approve of WA rankings
Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 9/10. The thing with Wild ARMS 3 is that Virginia and Jet have the better speed. Clive and Gallows have better power. Virginia however gets the better end of the deal because of Mystic, variable Gatling and speed that is notably above average. A little frail on raw durability, but she has evade so not even that tends to slow her down. Great on support for bosses and spoils randoms something fierce.
Gallows Caradine: 7/10. Extension has some neat effects, but losing speed by a notable margin to Virginia hurts its use. Magic also isn't as twinkable post game, although its more twinkable main game. Hm...7 probably works out. Also has best HP so he can soak a hit or two.
Jet Enduro: 4.5/10. Jet's actually not terrible, but his stats are spread out too thin across the board and doesn't specialize in something that can be taken advantage of. At his absolute worst though, he's worth another copy of your best PC by being the best Replay man. At his best...he's capable of going before Clive and dealing better ST physical damage without sacrificing FP. Sadly, this isn't something he gets to take advantage often. Accelerator is also rarely used but has a couple of notable combos (Accelerator/Escape for example)
Clive Winslett: 7/10. Best physical attacking PC with strong growths across the board at the cost of absolutely unsalvagable speed. Really strong and your best PC when enemies don't have elemental weaknesses. And when Weaken comes by, you can afford picking up Comet Mark shortly after to tip the scales back even. Physicals are more twinkable post-game though. Lock-On is neat, but again, not as valuable as the MT Force abilities. He ends up probably about the same as Gallows in practice for me. He has a few other advantages (and Gallows likewise) but I don't think it lets either of them edge past the other.
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki: 6/10. NEB's hit the nail on the head. Think her damage may also be iffy, but its been a while since I played XS1
KOS-MOS: 8/10. Significantly better than most others across the board. Speed's a drawback but she's a killer
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 4/10. Needs better speed. Oh well, at least he had HP!
MOMO: 3/10. Ew. Not her best form ever (she's notably better in other XSes). She has speed, but the damage and durability are suck in a can starting out. She gains a few utility options with her transformations that no one else does. So I guess that's something .
chaos: 3/10. Also kinda terrible. Well he has more durability, but I recall his damage being even worse than MOMO against non-Gnosis things.
Jr.: 7/10. Is behind KOS, but has some notable advantages (ranged physicals for one of the best Bravesoul users, earliest MT tech I think) that the others don't which bring him out slightly ahead. His skillset is decent enough to get him to a 7.
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Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 9/10. Game-best stat spread already gives her a mile on her colleagues. Solid magic+game-best speed (I think Elfboy kinda undersells it here - "solid" doesn't really cover speed that's "I get outsped by like twenty enemies throughout the whole game at fucking base"-level)+Mystic is a great niche for the midgame, where she starts GT OHKOing randoms she hits weakness on by the time she hits L25 off self-renewing resources that can even be sold for extra bucks. Mystic is also your best healing no questions asked, and she also has one of the most brutal twinking setups for bosses in 10-shot Valiant Gatling. Lategame, Phantasmic Heart almost uniformly MT OHKOs randoms even without magic twinkery on her side to boot. Her awesome speed also lets her cover buffing/utility very well in a pinch too. Her only problem is the suspect durability against things she can't dodge, and -that- she can fix easily. She covers the most niches without stepping on anyone's toes and none of her woes are unsalvageable in the least, so she's pretty easily the game's best PC.
Gallows Carradine: 7/10. Magic is just cool in WA3. Gallows sorta lags in the early game, but he grows into a potent force rather quietly - Extension is great for utility, his game-best magic grows even further with the right medium setups and nobody summons/hits weaknesses as hard as he does. His game-best HP also makes him pretty durable, which is neat. Only the shoddy speed really brings him down, and it's not unsalvageable like Clive's.
Jet Enduro: 4/10. Hi whatever boy. His stat spread is built in a way that he can't be made good in any niche without stopping other PCs from doing better - WA3 just rewards specialization to a huge degree. On the other hand, he certainly can play the utility role pretty well given the solid speed, and given how much shit Ginny can already do, taking -that- niche from her is hardly going to hurt her crazy performance. Probably his best use, and that makes him an okay utility body.
Clive Winslett: 6.5/10. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamage. Fails at speed hardcore, but he's just too good at scoring ST OHKOs and mocks evasion with a vengeance. His offensive performance is probably the biggest deterrent to making Jet's physical side good in a sense: Jet can -never- come close to Clive damage due to Lock-on and a vast difference in both ATK and ACC.
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki: 6.5/10. The skillset rules and should be passed off like candy to everybody. The stats kinda suck, though.
KOS-MOS: 8/10. Has everything but speed. The skillset, while not worth being passed around for the most part, is good for bosses and the offense is unsurpassed. Game-best durability in practice (less HP and maybe defense than Ziggy, but more MDef and notably more evasion) is also great and she makes an awesome healer with her solid EAtk stat and excellent survivability. Speed could use some work, but is fixable enough without much tapdancing, since she's one point from average.
Luis Virgil: DNR.
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 4/10. Oddly, I felt his elemental variety sucked. Slash/Pierce/Fire-reliant and nothing else really worth noting. He did get MT rather early, though, and his durability is solid, so he is fairly competent for the earlygame.
MOMO: 4/10. Can't really justify any higher. The durability really sucks and the skillset is awful. She does benefit a lot from skill passing, since the EAtk is great and so is the speed, and I ended up using her anyway. But she has issues.
chaos: 3/10. Has nothing worth noting besides game-worst MT healing. Aura element would be nice if it didn't often overlap with Beam, which KOS covers with a vengeance, and his offense is pretty unremarkable.
Jr.: 6/10. Generally not bad - durability could be better but isn't awful and his offense stats are solid. His ranged physical game is nice and he emphasizes MT like nobody else, being able to hit both defenses and multiple niche elements with it, which is nice. Skillset has a couple cool ideas, but is generally unnotable.
Mary: DNR.
Generic Soldier In AGWS: DNR.
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Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 8/10 Her bad hp is really noticeable early on with her really dragging the party down against Janus (The first and last human form). However after that she just takes off.
Gallows Caradine: 5/10 - Magic fails early on and then when you can get it good physicals are better anyway. Good hp combined with lowish physical defence means he is the easiest to Valiant abuse if you want to use it but don't want to bother too much. Also that physical damage is pure fail.
Jet Enduro: 4/10 - Okay everywhere except in magic where is horrible. He really doesn't need Accelerate also so he is the only one without a useful skill.
Clive Winslett: 7/10 - The damage the damage oh god the damage. Speed is a non issue in a turn based game like this to me as he can't be outsped to the point the enemy gets more turns and funnily enough there is a bonus boss he reduces to complete fail due to his horrible speed.
-
Noms for future ranking sessions! Persona 4, Wild ARMs: The Fourth Detonator, Soul Nomad, Persona 3!
Virginia Maxwell: 9/10. Character sucks, but hard to deny her uses.
Gallows Caradine: 9/10. Better character, still has good uses! His magic focus is awesome, and while his speed is nowhere near as good, it's still good enough.
Jet Enduro: 5/10. Can be made to do anything well enough, but doesn't excel. Hard to give that less than a 5.
Clive Winslett: 6/10. Feel like he's less useful than I used to feel. Great early, falls late.
Shion Uzuki: 4/10. Level 19 when the rest are 42!? lol. Anyway, her skillset is best given to others, though that necessitates using her. A huge liability in the Tiamat fight! Erde Kaiser is nice but...useful on what, 2 bosses? I suppose it can be used to obliterate randoms, but...eh. Not that helpful by that point in the game. Her attacks are neat, but...eh. Rain Blade is kind of late, and Gravity Well and Ether Amp are a bit limited (ST, OPB).
KOS-MOS: 9/10. Does everything well.
Luis Virgil: 6/10. Durable, does solid damage, really has no skillset, but it doesn't matter by that point.
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 6/10. Elemental variety is awesome, and he has ok support skills. Executioner is actually pretty good, and his durability is nice. Needs a speed boost, though.
MOMO: 6/10. Using her the entire game...she has uses. Frail as sin, but has a lot of evasion. She's also fast. Makes a great support character, although her transformations are vaguely useless. Still, MT damage, and cool weapons (though late) help.
chaos: 6/10. Wish his ethers were better. They're very...situational. On the other hand, his techs are awesome, and have a lot of variety. And are pretty strong - Arctic Blast and Heaven's Wrath in particular. He's also pretty durable overall. Hates the variable elemental defenses in the game, but is otherwise decent, and a great person to put better ethers on.
Jr.: 8/10. Bravesoul + Angelic Requiem, while late, demolishes every random. Misty also disables some of the nasty randoms at points. MT physical damage is awesome, even if he is a bit one-dimensional.
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Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 8.5/10. Would be higher, but it does take a little bit of time for her to get going, as early game she's distinctively unimpressive outside of the speed; she's fast, but lack of FP and limited Mediums means she doesn't have much to do it with. OF COURSE, that's only the early game, and she's great the rest of the way through.
Gallows Caradine: 6/10. Speed isn't completely unsalvage-able, but generally not worth boosting it. Otherwise, he's one of your main sources of damage, back up MT damage and healer, as well as some niche things like MT Valiant. High HP is cool too of course.
Jet Enduro: 4/10. As was said, not horrible, but he's really just kind of a warmbody who fills in all those "miscellaneous" roles cause his stats don't really support any build well enough. At least he's got good enough speed that he can be twinked to outspeed enemies reliably, making him a good item boy.
Clive Winslett: 7/10. Good damage from start to finish; bad speed isn't nice, making him iffy on randoms, but generally, when he goes, something dies, and he's probably your main source of damage against bosses outside of 10 Shot Gatling from Ginny post Valiant.
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki: 6/10. Decent support skills, iffy stats.
KOS-MOS: 8.5/10. Tank with high damage, of both kinds, ST and MT. Speed could use a little work, but that's her only real flaw.
Luis Virgil: DNR. BETTER HP THAN ZIGGY! SHITTY AT EVERYTHING ELSE! Also not around long enough to realistically rate.
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 4/10. Tank whose worse than KOS MOS in like everyway, so its hard to justify using him.
MOMO: 3/10. She's got game best speed, but her Game Worst HP stands out far more, and she doesn't really do much to make up for it, like a strong skill set; she wishes high evade was more significant in this game.
chaos: 3.5/10. Feels like a MOMO with better durability, in the grand scheme of things. That's...really not worth all that much, but I guess it earns him a half a point or something?
Jr.: 7/10. Ranged Physicals are really damned nice against some enemies, and he doesn't really have any noteworthy flaws outside of that. Granted, he doesn't have any real noteworthy STRENGTHS beyond that too, but hey, being overall average with one selling point is pretty good in this game.
Mary: DNR. Yeah, she kicks ass in the one section she's in due to a forced AGWS, but she's around for about as long as Vergil, for a sequence that matters about as much.
Generic Soldier In AGWS: DNR. For the same reasons as Mary really...pity cause I'd love to give a GENERIC GUY an actual rating.
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Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: 8.31
Gallows Caradine: 6.75
Jet Enduro: 4.31
Clive Winslett: 6.38
Xenosaga: Der Wille zur Macht:
Shion Uzuki: 5.71
KOS-MOS: 8.21
Luis Virgil: N/A
Ziggurat 8 "Ziggy": 4.71
MOMO: 4.50
chaos: 4.36
Jr.: 6.64
Mary: N/A
Generic Soldier In AGWS: N/A
Best Rating of this session: Virginia w/ 8.31
Worst Rating of this session: Jet w/ 4.31
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
5. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
6. Haar (FE10) 9.17
7t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
7t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
9. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
10. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
11. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
12. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
13. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
14. Tana (FE8) 8.73
15. Purim (SoM) 8.70
16. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
17. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
18t. Claude Kenni (SO2) 8.63
18t. Nailah (FE10) 8.63
20. Ike (FE10) 8.58
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Karla (FE7) 0.77
3. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
4. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
5. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
6. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
7. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
8. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
9. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
10. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
11. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
12. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
13. Squid (FFT) 1.25
14t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
14t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
16. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
17. Garret (FE6) 1.36
18t. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
18t. Bomb (FFT) 1.50
20. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
And now we get too...well, to be honest, I knew this day would come, and I tried to hold it off as much as possible...but alas, it looks like I must do it. So here we go!
Persona 4:
Souji Seta:
Yosuke Hanamura:
Chie Satonaka:
Yukiko Amagi:
Kanji Tatsumi:
Teddie:
Naoto Shirogane:
SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus:
Blue:
Emelia:
Lute:
Red:
Riki:
T260G:
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man:
Fire Storm:
Ice Slasher:
Hyper Bomb:
Magnet Beam:
Mega Buster:
Rolling Cutter:
Super Arm:
Thunder Beam:
NOTE: If its not obvious, this is based off the ORIGINAL version; rating based off MMPU does not count.
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SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 8.5/10. Asellus is a very solid human with an extra twist which makes her nearly must-use when available. Her sword list is outstanding and this is a good thing, but having MysticChange to get crazy stats for bosses pushes her to the next level. Her own quest is very human-friendly, to boot (nice weapons, long so they get higher levels, etc.).
Blue: 9.5/10. Spends half the game as Rouge, who to spoil things is probably a 7.5 to an 8 or so. Then lategame kicks in and he's just psychotic, broken everything and can literally bail you out against a tough final boss by himself. So yeah.
Emelia: 8/10 on her own quest, 7/10 otherwise. I'm inclined to rate on base quests, so use that 8. She's got a good sword list regardless, but on her own quest the costume changes allow for the easiest DSC in the game, pretty cool.
Lute: 3/10. The game hates Lute. Bad initial level, weak talent lists, even game-worst stat growth for however much that matters. There's only so bad a Saga human can be, but Lute is that bad.
Red: 8.5/10. Similar situation as Asellus, mostly. His more impressive talent list is fists, rather than swords (not that his sword list is bad). Alkaiser has ups and downs compared to MysticChange, but overall I think he belongs in the same general area.
Riki: Worthless on quests that aren't his own (monster with shitty base stats). On his own he's... better certainly, since the rings offset the main problem monsters have and he's forced long enough to overcome his bad bases, but even then you have better monsters. 4/10.
T260G: 9/10 on her own quest. Mecs have some distinct downsides, but that's really all the holds her back; she can be any mec type you need, and Omega's high stats and brutal boss-killer V-MAX are hard to ignore.
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man:
Fire Storm: 8.5/10. Man that awesome shield and power enough to kill and pierce everything
Ice Slasher: 7/10. Freezing things is cool.
Hyper Bomb: 0.5/10. IF YOU GET IT BEFORE ANY OTHER WEAPON IT HAS USES OVER THE BUSTER ON OCCASION. Otherwise no.
Magnet Beam: 8/10. Great platforming tool.
Mega Buster: 3/10. Bad game for the buster since the weapons are so powerful and not resisted very often.
Rolling Cutter: 5/10. Has moments, like against the final boss, and if you get it early it can certainly outperform the buster in many situations, but generally badly outclassed by the big two.
Super Arm: 2/10. Has some utility. A very little.
Thunder Beam: 9.5/10. Half a point worse than Metal Blade, but good lord.
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Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 10/10. Does everything reasonably well. The MT physical tecs are a godsend, and he's got basically everything available.
Yosuke Hanamura: 7.5/10. Very solid PC. Good fighter/mage with a great stat spread. Likes that Wind is a common weakness.
Chie Satonaka: 6/10. It hink her midgame lag period is overhated, as she has MT physicals which are awesome. Good stats, good equips! She is however a pretty terrible mage, and she spends about 20 levels in between getting good moves.
Yukiko Amagi: 7/10. You've got to have a healer, and she's the best. Not only does she have the ability to max her S-link early, she gets an SP boosting fan which helps as well. Poor stats hurt, which is pretty typical for P4 healers.
Kanji Tatsumi: 3/10. Slow, ST, bad mage. *flush*
Teddie: 6/10. Loses a point for having a slow S link. The buff game's neat on paper, but in practice you tend to use those for bosses and you usually want Teddie healing there.
Naoto Shirogane: 3/10. Bad damage and frail. Not a good combo.
SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 9/10
Blue: 10/10. Is Blue.
Emelia: 7/10
Lute: 3/10
Red: 9/10
Riki: 1/10
T260G: 9/10
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SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 8.5/10 - Could go to nine depending on how I feel on any given day.
Blue: 9.5/10 - I'm not in a generous mood. The early game is enough to drag him away by perfection, but only by a cat's whisker.
Emelia: 6/10. Competent.
Lute: 2/10. Junk.
Red: 8.5/10 Asellus 2.0. Alkaiser is better than MysticChange but harder to use. I'll call it a wash.
Riki: 2/10. Tripe.
T260G: 5/10. Admittedly not a mech fan.
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man: 10/10. Defeats Doctor Wily. Go go Megaman!
Fire Storm: 7/10. Good weapon that's overshadowed.
Ice Slasher: 5/10. Okay.
Hyper Bomb: 1/10. Pfft.
Magnet Beam: 10/10. Really useful and essential.
Mega Buster: 5/10. Average as always.
Rolling Cutter: 3.5/10. Ugh.
Super Arm: 1/10. Situational at best.
Thunder Beam: 10/10. Yeah, it's that good. It's not quite as good as Metal Blade but it's all relative. Sure, Supermodel A might be slightly hotter than Supermodel B, but they're both 10s. Same idea.
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SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 9/10
Blue: 9.5/10
Emelia: 6/10
Lute: 2/10
Red: 7/10
Riki: 2/10
T260G: 7/10
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man:
Fire Storm: 10/10
Ice Slasher: 5/10
Hyper Bomb: 1/10
Magnet Beam: 7/10
Mega Buster: 5/10
Rolling Cutter: 5.5/10
Super Arm: 1/10
Thunder Beam: 10/10
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Persona 4: Don't feel confident enough to do this so...
SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 8.5/10. Yeah, good all round character, etc. If fights in SaGa weren't so Ball Lightningy, I'd rate her higher.
Blue: 9.5/10. Good most of the game, broken end game. Not broken long enough to be a 10 though.
Emelia: 8/10. Asellus w/out Mystic Change. Half a point extra, however, for her own quest and the flexibility she gets from it, but she's in so many quests, I feel its appropriate to treat her generic side too.
Lute: 3/10. He sucks. Would be lower but you can get him really early thus a warm body when you may not have better options at the time or something!
Red: 8.5/10. Alkaiser is awesome, but limited...yeah, works for same score as Asellus.
Riki: 3/10. Monsters kind of suck, don't really feel he deserves credit for Rings cause anyone can use them in his quest.
T260G: 9/10. Mecs are awesome, and she's especially awesome in her own quest. Being a gimmicky Mec in other quests (7 equip slots?!!?) is worth something too.
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man:
Fire Storm: 9/10. Really good.
Ice Slasher: 4/10. Only really useful on those jumping guys in the beginning of Wily 1, otherwise you're better off just killing enemies.
Hyper Bomb: 1/10. Garbage.
Magnet Beam: 7/10. Good platforming tool.
Mega Buster: 5/10. The definition of average weapon in an MM game.
Rolling Cutter: 6/10. Stronger and piercing relative to Mega Buster offsets the lower range.
Super Arm: 2/10. No real practical application, and to make matters worse? Its not even a REQUIRED weapon like most demolition weapons are cause...
Thunder Beam: 9.5/10. Of this little broken gem. I do struggle to give it a 10/10 cause the weapon can only be fired once at a time, and combined with being slow, missing can be annoying...though you usually do NOT miss cause of its wide hit area which is why I only dock half a point. Also doesn't have the complete coverage of the Metal Blade, not hitting angles. Still absolutely ridiculous.
-
Wow, I can't believe I hadn't done this set yet!
Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 10 - Does everything.
Yosuke Hanamura: 6 - works really well in the beginning when he's your only warm body, but tapers off in use quickly once Confusion starts getting blocked by everything. If he got even one more level of healing magic, he would have made a decent backup healer.
Chie Satonaka: 7 - Great damage for most of the game, awesome equips and speed.
Yukiko Amagi: 8.5 - the highest a non-Souji PC could hope for. You need a healer, and Yukiko's the best.
Kanji Tatsumi: 6 - usable! Slow, but damage is damage and unless you like Yosuke's build or are really attached to ID, he's your best bet for a fourth.
Teddie: 8 - Can replace Yukiko, but why? And you should never need them both thanks to Souji existing.
Naoto Shirogane: 6.5 - ID is actually pretty good, but useless for bosses, so I preferred levelling Kanji.
SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 9 - best character in 2 scenarios!
Blue: 9 - best character in the game, but has that limited start and only in one path
Emelia: 8.5 - great in her own path, solid choice in every other path.
Lute: 5 - only so bad a SaGa human can be, but man did they try. 1.5 points for having the talent to learn LifeSprinkler.
Red: 8.5 - Not as good as Asellus or Blue, but better than Amelia... but only available in one path.
Riki: 6 - He's available in a lot of paths and he -does- start with some of the skills needed for BlackDragon, making him a decent Monster. Also, all monsters can get LifeRain and that's useful.
T260G: 9 - Can break the game in half, and widely available.
Man, SaGaF mains are pretty awesome. Despite their suckiness, I still want Lute and Riki ranked ;_;
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Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 10/10 Blahblahblah break game.
Yosuke Hanamura: 8/10 He's fast, getting the first hit or two in the battle can mean the difference between a sweep and losing half your HP. Does good on both attack stats, has the dodge/hit buff and only has to compete with Souji for wind damage.
Chie Satonaka: 6.5/10 Her ice magic just blows so hard that it's useless for anything other than knockdowns. Her physical skills make up for that on bosses.
Yukiko Amagi: 8/10 Not losing the weakness didn't hurt as much as some people think so. Her normal attack sucks as does her assist, but her sky-high magic and healing more than make up for it.
Kanji Tatsumi: 6/10 His magic skills go higher than Chie's but are barely any better. His physical skills are about even, and he's a total defense tank.
Teddie: 7/10 Actual damaging Ice magic! Healing! Buffs! But since Teddie has so much to do and he takes forever to get his upgraded persona, his weakness actually has an effect. His SP also isn't designed to hold out towards all the casting he'll need to do.
Naoto Shirogane: 2/10 HAHAHAHAHHAHA, oh shit you bad. Expensive as shit ID where you're better off using weakness. Completely useless on bosses except for extremely expensive non-elemental damage that blows on actually hurting things. Last party member. Obnoxious Social link. Shitty personas in her link. So much hate.
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Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 9/10. Does whatever you need him to, but never achieves the same level of "the rest of the party is redundant" status Minato did.
Yosuke Hanamura: 7/10. Good utility man, Wind is a nice safe element I found.
Chie Satonaka: 4/10. She does eventually get good, but I feel like it's a long wait to get there, and she's an active liability in the early going when you must have her in the party.
Yukiko Amagi: 6/10. Healing is good, but directly comparing her and Teddie she definitely feels weaker in a few ways.
Kanji Tatsumi: 6/10. I think? I didn't use him much.
Teddie: 7/10. For example, he's much more MT-oriented, starts with Mediarama and gets the MT buffs.
Naoto Shirogane: 3/10. I just don't see a point to a dedicated random-smasher at that stage in the game. You're bound to have superior options on Souji by then.
SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 8/10. Yeaaaah, why wouldn't you abuse Asellus.
Blue: 8/10. He jumps from a 7 to a 10 in the endgame, endgame is kinda short so.
Emelia: 7/10. Based on other quests, didn't get to her own. ANyway, just good, nothing really to discourage you from using her.
Lute: No vote, didn't use.
Red: 8/10. Doesn't quite veer into gamebreaker territory.
Riki: No vote, didn't use.
T260G: No vote, didn't use.
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Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 10/10. It's Souji, he does everything.
Yosuke Hanamura: 8/10. Very solid on both randoms and bosses, never really feels like he has a lagging point except for odd areas where the randoms like to resist wind. Also early and strong S.Link means he's likely to see that upgraded persona before anyone else, which is a boost.
Chie Satonaka: 6/10. Good early, good late, has this horrible mid-game slump.
Yukiko Amagi: 8/10. Not losing the weakness ever hurts, but otherwise is good at keeping the party going.
Kanji Tatsumi: 4/10. Boss slugging potential, but I'd generally rather have anyone but him vs randoms. Randoms are a big part of the game, and you've got to use him on those to get the levels for boss slugging, so it hurts him.
Teddie: 7/10. I'd generally take Chie over Teddy endgame, but she's got that mid-game slump where he starts strong, so I'll give him one overall point on her.
Naoto Shirogane: 3/10. Yeah, she has some points that she's good in, but much like Kanji, being only good against one of the bosses/randoms set makes you lose points. And even on randoms, she's competing with Mr. "I end battles by myself" Souji, so she's not as good there as Kanji is vs bosses.
SaGa Frontier Main Characters
Asellus: 9/10. Overall amazing.
Blue: 9/10. He'd get the 10 if the merge happened sooner. But oh man so dominating after that.
Emelia: 8/10. She's really a 7, but being available and good in other scenarios gets her that +1.
Lute: 5/10. Honestly, I give him a couple points for being an easy warm body to grab in any scenario, don't think there's anyone he won't join. Other then that...yeah, I like him, but it's Lute. He sucks.
Red: 9/10. Yup, another nine. Alkaiser is nuts like that. And you can easily get him a full mech team to make use of it as much as you like!(just don't do what I did the first time and neglect training Red entirely. <____<;)
Riki: 4/10. This is purely for his own quest with ring credit. Unlike Lute I'm not giving him points for being available in other quests because if you want a monster you can get Thunder just as easily, while with Lute...say it with me now, "there's only so bad a SaGa Frontier human can be."
T260G: 8/10. Would get the 9 to match Red, Blue and Asellus, but Omega body comes late and isn't quite as "what" as Blue's merger.
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Persona 4
*reviews his old ranking notes for P4 PCs* A couple of minor changes, although for the most part the list holds true.
Souji Seta: 9/10. See CK. It's a lie to say Souji is bad. But he's definitely not as dominating as some of the other 10/10 PCs I've seen who are quite capable of one-manning pretty much the entire damn game (see: Yuna). He's never so far ahead that the other PCs are basically just there. Early game also isn't that great since you haven't gotten a lot of crap to start fusing together. Of course, it doesn't take long before this slowly rolls along and snowballs into a destructive force.
Yosuke Hanamura: 8/10. Your best PC outside of Souji. This is how you handle a utility PC. Yosuke just has a little of everything and then some, making him very versatile. To put things into perspective, Yosuke could be the main character of the game, and he would still be pretty damn good. Want status? He has it. Want physical damage? Have that too. Back up healer? He can do it. While Yosuke never really has the best skill in any area (MT Confusion < MT ID, Brave Blade < God Hand, etc.), he's never bad or lagging. On top of that, he has lots of equipment options (+40 SP, +30% Wind damage, +30% Fire resist), an extra resist upon persona evolution and he starts his S.Link the earliest. This isn't even getting to his stat spread (+10 against everyone at even levels + speed advantage), which is well balanced with only Luck being a little low.
Chie Satonaka: 5/10. That mid-game lag really hurts. The other issue is MT Physical is simply not as important as MT elemental spells. Chie has some advantages (early S.Link, good ST dealing potential), but it's a bit of an investment, and that investment sadly doesn't pay off until towards the latter half of the game. It evens out.
Yukiko Amagi: 7/10. Generally speaking, you want a healer when exploring most dungeons for the first time. There are two reasons for this. One, a second healer is always a good thing. Two, having another healer means you have more freedom in letting Souji go on offense. Yukiko's stat spread isn't the best (speed could use work), but does have great Mag and SP growth, which is pretty critical for a healer. Early on, she's probably tied with Yosuke. Once mid to late game start kicking in, Yosuke gains a significant leg up on her and she never really catches back up. 7 works.
Kanji Tatsumi: 5/10. Hello durability. Great HP! Great Endurance! And more equips that boost Endurance! Blech to the rest of the stat spread. Low speed + Low Mag doesn't fly well against randoms. Bosses, Kanji's better, but not as good as Chie for ST damage. His big thing though is Matarukaja, which gives the party's offense a huge boost. Since Kanji isn't spending much SP anywhere else, he's capable of serving as a Mataru battery that just doesn't die. Which is pretty awesome.
Teddie: 5/10. Forced S.Link = bad since he can't speed it up. This hurts a lot more than you think. The other issue is redundancy since he just isn't beating Yukiko as a healer. However, he can party buff, which may account for something.
Naoto Shirogane: 3.5/10. Smashes randoms but kinda bad everywhere else. This ends up creating a bit of a dilemma. Do you sand bag your team for bosses and have Naoto smash shit everywhere else? Or do you force yourself to go through the dungeon and grind? Sadly, usually the better option is just to not use Naoto since the rest of your party is more than capable of taking care of enemies.
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SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 8.5/10. Asellus is a very solid human with an extra twist which makes her nearly must-use when available. Her sword list is outstanding and this is a good thing, but having MysticChange to get crazy stats for bosses pushes her to the next level. Her own quest is very human-friendly, to boot (nice weapons, long so they get higher levels, etc.).
Blue: 9.5/10. Spends half the game as Rouge, who to spoil things is probably a 7.5 to an 8 or so. Then lategame kicks in and he's just psychotic, broken everything and can literally bail you out against a tough final boss by himself. So yeah.
Emelia: 8/10 on her own quest, 7/10 otherwise. I'm inclined to rate on base quests, so use that 8. She's got a good sword list regardless, but on her own quest the costume changes allow for the easiest DSC in the game, pretty cool.
Lute: 3/10. The game hates Lute. Bad initial level, weak talent lists, even game-worst stat growth for however much that matters. There's only so bad a Saga human can be, but Lute is that bad.
Red: 8.5/10. Similar situation as Asellus, mostly. His more impressive talent list is fists, rather than swords (not that his sword list is bad). Alkaiser has ups and downs compared to MysticChange, but overall I think he belongs in the same general area.
Riki: Worthless on quests that aren't his own (monster with shitty base stats). On his own he's... better certainly, since the rings offset the main problem monsters have and he's forced long enough to overcome his bad bases, but even then you have better monsters. 4/10.
T260G: 9/10 on her own quest. Mecs have some distinct downsides, but that's really all the holds her back; she can be any mec type you need, and Omega's high stats and brutal boss-killer V-MAX are hard to ignore.
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Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 9/10 - Isn't completely overwhelming in this game as all the pcs are decent. Being able to switch and early powerful persona like Jack frost and late persona like Yoshi means its only in the mid game where people are really at his level. I find myself handicapping myself as him though as I like to get all the skills for personas which means I have to use naff personas at times.
Yosuke Hanamura: 8.5/10 - Can't give him a 9 but at the same time 8 isn't enough. When it comes to party building I always think on what my third and forth pc will be but never my second because Yosuke is the guy who can do everything right. Not only is he solid everywhere but he gets his upgraded persona really early which really pushs him above the rest for a while.
Chie Satonaka: 6/10 - That mid game is disgusting and if she didn't get really good late and I didn't really like hercharacter and fighting style I'd never consider using her. Upgraded persona also comes early which is good.
Yukiko Amagi: 6/10 - Is a pretty fine healer but beyond that there isn't much.
Kanji Tatsumi: 6/10 Magic >>>> Physicals for most of the game meaning he really sucks for most of the game. Well not suck as like I said all the pcs are generally decent but he is easily the worse of the bunch.
Teddie: 6/10 - Better then Yukiko I think personally but whats up with that late persona upgrade? Naoto's at least you can fix s fast as possible but teddies you have to wait on for ages.
Naoto Shirogane: 6/10 - Late on in places like Heaven I found myself Iding most of the randoms so it was her and Souji's show as having just one would mean they run out of sp. Having no elements means her damage suffers against a lot of enemies and the enemies she has people beat on are very few.
-
Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 9/10
Yosuke Hanamura: 8/10
Chie Satonaka: 7.5/10
Yukiko Amagi: 6.5/10
Kanji Tatsumi: 5/10
Teddie: 7/10
Naoto Shirogane: 5/10
-
Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 9/10: I won't deny his usefulness--lategame. He starts slow, though, and he feels like he lags around Mitsuo's dungeon.
Yosuke Hanamura: 8/10: Solid all the way through. His healing drops off halfway (he hates not having Diarahan), but wind magic, decent physicals, and Tentarafoo typically don't go out of style.
Chie Satonaka: 6/10: Great early with Swift Strike and ice magic, great late with God's Hand. ...too bad she completely sucks in the middle.
Yukiko Amagi:7/10: The better healer of the two. Doesn't have buffs, but has more solid healing, good offensive magic, and generally doesn't run out of SP ever.
Kanji Tatsumi:4/10: Gets Mataru, so that makes him good for bosses. Not really so good for randoms--lightning magic is one hole I found Souji filling pretty often due to how much Kanji SUCKS at it.
Teddie: 6/10: He's got the buffs, he's got the healing...but I find I prefer Yukiko as a healer more.
Naoto Shirogane:5/10: Yeah, she's not good for bosses. Everyone knows that. What she IS good for, however, is conserving Souji's SP against randoms--letting him have more against bosses, where I've noticed he NEEDS his SP. Megido-series even punches through some defenses that would otherwise be frustrating, putting a quick end to some fights.
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man:
Fire Storm: 8/10 -- It'd be a great weapon in other MM games. ...Ones that didn't have the Elec Beam or Metal Blade.
Ice Slasher:4/10 -- Utility weapon, helps againt Fire Man.
Hyper Bomb: 0/10 -- I don't even remember using this piece of crap. Not even sure if it has uses aside from pause glitch potential if you don't have the Thunder Beam...but you can't even HIT with this thing.
Magnet Beam: 8/10 -- OH GOD THIS IS STUPID USEFUL.
Mega Buster: 6/10 -- It's the Mega Buster! Not great on power, but it's got range and rapid-fire and infinite ammo. I'd say it's decent based on that.
Rolling Cutter: 4/10 -- Eh. It's okay. Nothing special.
Super Arm:2/10 -- One point for letting you get the Magnet Beam, another for helping on the Wily 3 boss.
Thunder Beam:10/10 --Hey, look. Let's give you a multidirectional weapon that pierces, does tons of damage, and on top of that, works with the damn pause glitch. The only reason I'm rating this a 10 is because the numbers do not go higher.
-
Persona 4:
Souji Seta: 9.44
Yosuke Hanamura: 7.67
Chie Satonaka: 6.00
Yukiko Amagi: 7.11
Kanji Tatsumi: 5.00
Teddie: 6.56
Naoto Shirogane: 4.11
SaGa Frontier Main Characters:
Asellus: 8.67
Blue: 9.28
Emelia: 7.34
Lute: 3.25
Red: 8.34
Riki: 3.25
T260G: 8.13
BONUS ROUND - Rate that Weapon!
Mega Man:
Fire Storm: 8.50
Ice Slasher: 5.00
Hyper Bomb: 0.70
Magnet Beam: 8.00
Mega Buster: 4.80
Rolling Cutter: 4.80
Super Arm: 1.60
Thunder Beam: 9.80
Best Rating of this Session: Souji w/ 9.44
Worst Rating of this Session: Riki and Lute w/ 3.25
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
5. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
6. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
7. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
8. Haar (FE10) 9.17
9t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
9t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
11. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
12. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
13. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
14. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
15. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
16. Tana (FE8) 8.73
17. Purim (SoM) 8.70
18. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
19. Asellus (SaGa) 8.67
20. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Karla (FE7) 0.77
3. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
4. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
5. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
6. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
7. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
8. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
9. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
10. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
11. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
12. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
13. Squid (FFT) 1.25
14t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
14t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
16. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
17. Garret (FE6) 1.36
18t. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
18t. Bomb (FFT) 1.50
20. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
Moving on, cause someone had to give me a sad puppy dog face, I am forced to do 3 games this time, instead 2 and a bonus round. Without further ado...
Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim:
Tia:
Guy:
Selan:
Dekar:
Lexis Shaia:
Artea:
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick:
Arnaud G. Vasquez:
Yulie Ahtreide:
Raquel Applegate:
Kresnik Ahtreide:
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie:
Captain Hamilton:
Doll:
Fei-on:
Fuse:
Gen:
Liza:
Mei-ling:
Roufas:
Rouge:
As usually, if I made a mistake, missed someone, etc. please remind me in whatever NON-SUBTLE manner possible. Also, with regards to Lufia 2, this is based off the ORIGINAL game, if the subtitle wasn't obvious, not the remake; I will not accept ratings based off the DS version.
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals: -
Maxim: 7.5. Reasonably good fighter, okay enough at magic. Stats aren't too good outside of decent strength. Gets that awesome payout late at least!
Tia: 3- That durability blows ass. She's fast and has decent INT, but every other stat is appallingly bad.
Guy: 5- He's your best source of boss damage due to strength/IP's, and is really durable. Just overshadowed by Dekar if he was available all game. (He'd be clearly castworst in that case)
Selan: 7- Starts off really badly; it takes her till the time Dekar leaves to start outspeeding Maxim. She benefits from: the best draw of equipment in the game: and lots of and lots of availablity.
Dekar: 6.5- Um, yeah. Most durable PC in the game, likely the most damaging, and he has a couple of excellent IP's. He needs those strengths to make up for no magic and no speed.
Lexis Shaia: 5- Average stats outside of the killer INT. MT weapons are cool but not worth caring about that much.
Artea: 7-He's a fast healer/buffer. Everything else is secondary to that. Like Dekar, he isn't around enough.
It's a balanced cast in practice. The Pc's with the best stat spreads in the game (Dekar and Artea) aren't around much, and that hurts them. I'd probably rate it as Artea=Dekar>Maxim>Selan>Lexis>>Guy>Tia otherwise. Lufia 2 also doesn't tend to push frail characters too much outside of the AC and Tia, since you have row and a lot of healing at your disposal.
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 7/10
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 9/10
Yulie Ahtreide: 5/10
Raquel Applegate: 8/10
Kresnik Ahtreide: DNR
Abstain on Saga humans for the moment.
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals: ...super covered it pretty well!
Maxim: 7.5 - the 0.5 is for availability
Tia: 2.5 - kinda useless and tricked me into thinking she was permanent party member so I'm still bitter about wasting time levelling her.
Guy: 5.5 - availability!
Selan: 7.5 - equips!
Dekar: 6 - ;_; availability...
Lexis Shaia: 3 - never found him useful and after being burned by Tia, I was even less tolerant towards temps that don't instantly pull their weight. Practically no availability either...
Artea: 7 - awesome, though a bit too lategame.
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator: ...Tide could write an entire article on this!
Jude Maverick: 4.5 - balanced cast is balanced, but Jude's generally the worst. You basically need everyone in this game, though.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8 - if anyone could solo the game, it's Arnaud.
Yulie Ahtreide: 6 - healing is generally important to my personal playstyle
Raquel Applegate: 8 - IntrudeIntrudeIntrude
Kresnik Ahtreide: 3 - availability issues, and he's not even particularly useful when you have him.
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 7 - Good availability, misleading starting stats/skills. There's only so bad a SaGaF Human can be~
Captain Hamilton: 8 - Actually quite broken, even by SaGaF Human standards, but available on -one- path, so no godly score.
Doll: 7 - Great gunner and starts with a decent pool of magic, including some Mystic magic, something that other humans have a hard time getting. Only available in -one- path again... and it's a path that penalizes using humans!
Fei-on: 5.5 - Decent starting stats, but he's actually the hardest Human PC to recruit. Also, for a Fist-fighter, he doesn't learn DSC without a -lot- of luck or grinding.
Fuse: 8 - Good all-arounder. Decent learning speed, decent stats, decent starting skills, learns DSC at an average rate, available on all paths decently early. Standard SaGaF Human who can do anything.
Gen: 8.5 - Great stats, great learnrates, probably the best non-main swordsman in the cast, and available early in most paths.
Liza: 8.5 - only available on a few paths, but the best DSC-learner in the cast + awesome talent tree = high score.
Mei-ling: 7 - Actually a decent mage/gunner. Availability is weird, and the sucker punch in Riki's chapter drops her 1 point.
Roufas: 9 - gamebest human for availability/stats/talents ratio.
Rouge: 8.5 - great availability, best mage in the game, best learnrate in the game, but tends to not actually end up that great with non-mage builds anyway.
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: 5/10. Exists, is okay.
Tia: 6/10. Bad durability but I don't think she was punished for this too often.
Guy: 3/10. Decent damage for bosses, but that's still less valuable than the awesome MT healing some other PCs get. And he's trash for randoms.
Selan: 7/10. Speed and magic are the two most important stats in the game. Physical side didn't completely fail, either.
Dekar: 5/10. Like Guy, but enough better at damage to look decent IIRC.
Lexis Shaia: 6/10. Kinda there as a filler spellcaster. He wasn't around enough to make a strong impression on me. That said, spellcaster domination, etc.
Artea: 7.5/10. Best speed, still decent at magic. Like Selan, fighting wasn't terrible either.
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5/10. I have trouble giving anyone in this cast a low score, they all do their thing well enough. Tide's analyses paint Jude towards the bottom granted.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8/10. Best at controlling single hexes, great durability too. Complete package.
Yulie Ahtreide: 5/10. The durability sucks, FP Advantage is amazing, skillset is solid. Weird case, but I tend to kneejerk her at a similar score to Jude.
Raquel Applegate: 8.5/10. Man Intrude needed its FP cost tripled. Oh well.
Kresnik Ahtreide: Pass.
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 4/10. Bit of an inside joke by the design team I'm pretty sure. Her sword talent list is uh not good. That said, Lute comments apply, and at least she has better stats, a decent fist list, and is forced for a bit on Emelia's quest.
Captain Hamilton: 7.5/10. One of the best PC's on Lute's path; innate Two-Gun makes her the best gunner in the game bar none, and the starting stats are solid.
Doll: 5.5/10. There are better human choices, certainly, but she has an okay sword list and decent at guns/magic, so she's workable.
Fei-on: 4/10. Kinda like Annie, different kind of joke with his talent list though. It's not as bad, but there's also less reason to use him.
Fuse: 5/10. Quite good starting stats, but he's not especially talented at anything. Also much worse than this on quests that aren't Red's, but I'm not holding that against him. Still the least impressive Saga human who doesn't do anything overtly -wrong-.
Gen: 8/10. Outstanding sword list that starts good and gets better. Good fist list if you care. Definitely a PC to consider for any quest. Would get even better if I considered availability.
Liza: 8/10. Cast-best fist list, one of the best gunners/mages in the game, solid starting stats, and the bonus half-point for being forced for a bit on Emelia's quest. Yeah.
Mei-ling: 6.5/10. Good mage/gunner/swordsman, but weak starting stats. Balances into an above average package.
Roufas: 6.5/10. A lot like Mei-ling really, with better starting physical stats but a worse swordsman so this balances, outside better starting HP... but worse starting spells. Yeah, calling this even.
Rouge: 8/10. Woo game-best magic/gun talent.
Humans tend to score well on average, since I do consider them the strongest race in the game overall. Magic is a great skillset (and they are much better at it than mystics due to double the spell slots, better learning rates, and mastery possibilities), swords own face just for Deflect, guns really soar lategame (or early if you're Hamilton), even fists have a clear niche.
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I'm still bitter about wasting time levelling her.
You have no choice who to level in Lufia 2, fixed party and all. You may have been tricked by her but this doesn't really hurt you in any way.
Also Roufas as a 9? I don't think he's really impressive enough for that. The only talent Roufas is especially good at is gun/magic, and... Rouge is better there. Rouge also has better availability, since you hyped that. Putting Roufas above Rouge seems kinda wrong to me. Putting him above Red strikes me as even more wrong, but at least I can see some availability-based argument there.
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I levelled up a lot when it was just Maxim and Tia... spent too much time doing it, but I was young and it was Lufia2.
Hmm... it's a good point, Rouge should probably be a 9, but I always found his meh physical stats to be a hinderance whereas Roufas made a good swordsman or fist-user and had better starting stats.
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I don't think Roufas is a particularly good swordsman (no Deflect talent, easily the most important sword skill IMO) or fist-user (though base str helps some for the latter, poor DSC potential and no SkyTwister make that questionable long-term). I mean, you can build him that way of course because hey, Saga human, but you will always have many better options. He -is- quite an excellent gunner and/or mage due to being tied for the #2 tier of talent there and solid base stats, just Rouge clearly beats him at that. I don't think either deserves a 9, mind, in a game where characters like Asellus, Blue, and Red, offer things comparable to what Roufas/Rouge do and then have an extra level of awesome-sauce piled on.
Oh yeah, I'd almost forgotten how much fun Saga nerding is.
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: I... really can't see what justifies him above a 6, heck 6 itself is pushing it. He's not bad or anything but he's not really great in the areas that matter the most. 5.5/10
Tia: Game fails at punishing the bad durability and hey more or less best mage until Selan stops sucking. Kind of useless my ass. 6/10
Guy: I don't think I need to elaborate on Guy's problems. 3/10
Selan: That start is just really trashy. Picks up at least though. 7/10 works I guess. If not for the start she'd be clear MVP.
Dekar: Guy+. 4/10
Lexis Shaia: Alright enough for someone around for so little time. 6/10
Artea: Late enough that I'm hesitant to hand him MVP. Still 7/10.
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 4/10
Captain Hamilton: Abstain
Doll: Abstain
Fei-on: 4/10
Fuse: Abstain
Gen: Abstain
Liza: 8/10
Mei-ling: Abstain
Roufas: 7/10
Rouge: 8/10
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: 7/10. Does everything adequately to different degrees, so this works.
Tia: 4/10. Frail, and doesn't really do anything particularly stand out; I remember early game magic (when Tia's available) wasn't particularly special for damage.
Guy: 4/10. Not much better on physicals than Maxim and lacks spells or anything.
Selan: 7/10. in my one file, I got the Blaze Sword from the Ancient Cave, so she was my physical powerhouse for most of the game! But beyond that, I'd assume she's Maxim with better speed and magic damage, worse other things so...same score.
Dekar: 6/10. Guy, except notably better at what he does.
Lexis Shaia: 5/10. Tia but not as frail or something.
Artea: 7/10. Maxim variation or something!
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5/10. Not bad, but...not really stand out either.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8/10. Would be MVP in most games, but this isn't most games. That said, mage w/ good debuffs.
Yulie Ahtreide: 6/10. Healing doesn't really do much in this game, cause WA4 is so Ball-lightningy for fights. However, FP Advantage is her skill, and that's worth quite a bit there, and Turn Shift is pretty cool too.
Raquel Applegate: 8.5/10. Raquel SMASH puny game. One of the best One dimensional characters ever.
Kresnik Ahtreide: DNR. He's around basically to fill in gaps and so Jude doesn't have to solo a section, doesn't really count as a character.
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 4/10. Yeah, being a SaGa human means she ca only be so low, but that's how it is.
Captain Hamilton: 6/10. Starting with Two guns is cool, restricted to Lute's Quest...not so much.
Doll: 6/10. Strong set of skills she can learn.
Fei-on: 3/10. Annie but with Fists, which are notably worse.
Fuse: 6/10. Passable, but nothing special.
Gen: 8/10. Kick ass sword-set, and availability in quests is awesome.
Liza: 8/10. Fist Gen or something; not available as much, but I think she's also better at other areas like guns and such, so yeah.
Mei-ling: 6/10. Generic!Emelia variation whose around in less quests and has a bullshit stunt in her Riki's quest.
Roufas: 6/10. Solid human, but nothing special.
Rouge: 8/10. We've noted Blue would be generically awesome without his end game boost of psychoness...Rouge basically is that <_<
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: 5/10
Tia: 3/10
Guy: 4/10
Selan: 6/10
Dekar: 5/10
Lexis Shaia: 2/10
Artea: 8/10
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5/10
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8/10
Yulie Ahtreide: 6/10
Raquel Applegate: 9/10
Kresnik Ahtreide:3/10
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 3/10
Captain Hamilton: 7.5/10
Doll: 4/10
Fei-on: 2/10
Fuse: 5/10
Gen: 8/10
Liza: 8.5/10
Mei-ling: 4/10.
Roufas: 5.5/10
Rouge: 7/10
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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: 6/10. He's never really bad, rarely actively good, but has a couple times he stands out. 6 feels like a good average.
Tia: 5/10. She's there.
Guy: 3/10. Certainly better than a blank space, but the rest of the cast would replace him if it were possible to be sure.
Selan: 7/10.
Dekar: 5/10. He's alright, clear flaws and strong points and I dunno, doesn't really stand out either way while he's around (aside from being better than Guy)
Lexis Shaia: 6/10. Pull his weight pretty well while around.
Artea: 7/10.
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5/10. His utility uses felt largely irrelevant for most of the game, but he's not bad either.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 7/10. A lot of stuff dies too fast to really get use from his skillset, but it's monstrous when it does come out to play.
Yulie Ahtreide: 6/10. Point for FP advantage, otherwise well.. he skills are great, but she also tends not to be alive to use them, so she's more for late game applications when you have time to plan things out.
Raquel Applegate: 8/10. And this is why everyone else never gets to use their skills.
Kresnik Ahtreide: 6/10. Certainly more valuable than Jude or Yulie in the stints he fights with/replaces them.
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: Pass
Captain Hamilton: Pass
Doll: Pass
Fei-on: Pass
Fuse: 6/10. Good enough work horse, doesn't stand out.
Gen: 7/10. Sorta stands out
Liza: Pass
Mei-ling: Pass
Roufas: ... DID I get Roufas ever? Hell if I ermember.
Rouge: 7/10. Rouge isn't quite up there with Asellus/Red and I game them 8s I'm pretty sure, so.
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Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 6/10
He's certainly not as bad as people initially painted him in the first ranking topic. My main issue with Jude is that he lacks that *something* that makes stand out. Utility roles in WA games don't tend to fare well (see: Jet). It's better in WA4 though as Jude is certainly more powerful than some of the other utility type characters in the series. For one thing, Joint Struggle is a great early to mid-game damage source. The only issue is having to set it up. In fact, Joint Struggle is better than Intrude in some cases since it deals more damage, is a on a faster character and doesn't consume FP. Next, Jude also has Item Steal, which on occasion, lets you rack up some really powerful badges well before they should be available. Since Jude's offensive role decreases as the game progresses, this gives you lots of chances and you will more likely than not luck out at some point. Finally, Jude's early game performance is quite strong. Well before enemy HP goes up and before the other characters start getting their key skills, Jude generally performs the best since at that point his offense is quite good. Fast character + decent offense and range? Yep, sounds pretty awesome. Of course, then late game starts sinking in, and Jude just kind of drops and drops.
Things I would do to make Jude more powerful? Make his tank role better (if he can't evade, at least let his Guard speed up his turn or heal him), and give more chests that provide status items so you get an occasional shot at hitting something with status. Probably improve the upgrade limit on the Shapeshifter and change the growth ratio on it too, since as is the Shapeshifter is a huge piece of crap.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 9/10
Like Jude, Arnaud performs pretty good from the start. Unlike Jude, Arnaud never really goes bad. He has a pretty consistent level of performance. Being the game's most durable character counts for something in bad random draws and the game's variety of mish-mash in offense types. But that's not what really makes Arnaud great. He has a wide variety of skills that just fits so well into the game. As NEB already touched upon, Arnaud is the master at locking down single targets. Slow Down, Shut Out, Illusion, Extend basically screw enemies up horribly. Plus after Illusion, you're pretty safe to waltz in and bait physicals, building lots of FP for Raq's Intrude chains. In randoms, where the single target lock down is less important, Arnaud has the game's only form of Move and Act with Jump and Act. In WA5, this was a free action and it made things easier certainly. In WA4, you're paying 25 FP for it, but Jesus, is the skill actually worth the cost. It has some other fringe benefits such as hopping over enemy occupied HEXes and taking all allies with you, but for the most part, it really shows how powerful Movement and Acting in the same turn is. Basically, in a fight, Jump has a much higher chance to be used than you would expect since you can use it to snipe out more threatening targets, set up a Material (if you have 50 FP), regroup, etc. Oh and Arnaud's offense? It's fine for the most part. He gets the benefit of using elements and strengthening with gems to keep him relatively afloat (but it does flounder once in a while) in game. He's no Raquel, but he doesn't have to be. Packing any range offense and being the best users of gems/magic gives him a good chance to shine and a well enough niche overall that he doesn't trail behind Raquel overall.
Yulie Ahtreide: 7/10
FP Advantage is arguably the game's best passive skill. Setting up opening Jumps, Materials, Intrudes has such a huge impact on how quickly battles end or become non-threatening. Yulie's physical durability is a notable strike against her, but past that, she settles nicely into her little niche once she hits level 16-17 when she gets both Turn Shift and FP Advantage. At that point, all of Yulie's dead turns are basically copies of the next person's turn. In that situation she can actually do something, you stop Turn Shifting and take action. Packing an "I-win" button 90% of the time if she starts on an elemental HEX is worth brownies points. Yulie doesn't contribute much offensively, but she has a much more settled niche of when she's good than Jude does. And when her offense exists? It's actually pretty good. Just that the times when do exist are few.
Raquel Applegate: 9/10
The two best characters in WA4 have Move and Act skills. Raquel's is watered down to just attack. Of course, on Raquel, it might as well be Move and Act anyway. It's already been said, but it bears repeating: 25 FP Intrude is just ridiculous. You can triple the cost of the skill as in WA5, and it is still a good skill, let alone when it costs only 1/3rd the FP. Raquel has only two set backs. One is her early game performance, which is nowhere near as dominating. She needs to get her tools and other people's tools (Item Stealing a Tiny Flower, FP Advantage, Red Zone for example) before she's the juggernaut she is at the end of the game. And Two, in any situation which calls for some other action than hitting attack, Raquel is nowhere near as good either. If you need to slow the fight to a more managable pace, Raquel can't really do it other than hitting the enemy harder. If you want to steal/Capture Apples/Move enemies, Raquel can't do those either. Other than that, she's as good as most people have already noted. A physical powerhouse with great physical durability and the ability to literally one-chain bosses if you let her get going.
Kresnik Ahtreide: 5/10
Yes, I rather take Jude over Kresnik. Kresnik's most notable contribution are marginally better offense and Apoptosis. Well...his armor would be awesome if he was actually a long term character. But as is, the two times when you do get to use him, the first time, you give up Yulie's ability to instantly win when on an elemental HEX for more physical offense/durability. In a team of Jude (durable), Arnaud (evasive), Raquel (both), this doesn't mean much. I guess the offense is okay, but it really doesn't shine since he loses to Raquel and doesn't win against Arnaud. In the second, the dungeon is set up so that you'll be using Apoptosis a lot. Jude of course, benefits with Gadget Crush, and that's usually the better option if you do get to use it. So in the second fight, he's merely a body needed to use the Dual Tech and provides 50 FP. Mediocre overall I guess. Not terrible, but yeah.
-
Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: 6/10
Tia: 3/10
Guy: 4/10
Selan: 7/10
Dekar: 6/10
Lexis Shaia: 5/10
Artea: 8/10
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5/10
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8/10
Yulie Ahtreide: 6/10
Raquel Applegate: 5/10
Kresnik Ahtreide: DNR
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 3/10
Captain Hamilton: 7/10
Doll: 4/10
Fei-on: 2/10
Fuse: 7/10
Gen: 8.5/10
Liza: 8/10
Mei-ling: 6/10
Roufas: 5/10
Rouge: 8/10
-
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5/10
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 9/10
Yulie Ahtreide: 7/10
Raquel Applegate: 9/10
Kresnik Ahtreide: 5/10
-
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 3/10
Jude's not bad and is an interesting character design but there is no doubt he is LVP. I'm being a little harsh as in a game with the difficulty balanced differently, Mystic'ing items could well be crucial, but it rarely matters as is. Otherwise, he's just doing too little damage, and among his best uses is just hanging in the same hex as Yulie to hope for cover.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8/10
Slow Down alone + hard to kill is a great combo. His tricks are also necessary for a bunch of the HEX positioning fights.
Yulie Ahtreide: 6/10
You need a healer.
Raquel Applegate: 8/10
Kills everything. Intrude. Only Yulie can match her damage and that's when she's blowing FP for MT summons.
Kresnik Ahtreide: 5/10
Jude but with some actual damage if you're underleveled (for all that his damage fails in the DL).
-
Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals:
Maxim: 6.19
Tia: 4.06
Guy: 3.94
Selan: 6.94
Dekar: 5.44
Lexis Shaia: 4.75
Artea: 7.31
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: 5.05
Arnaud G. Vasquez: 8.20
Yulie Ahtreide: 6.00
Raquel Applegate: 8.10
Kresnik Ahtreide: 4.50
SaGa Frontier Humans:
Annie: 4.17
Captain Hamilton: 7.50
Doll: 5.30
Fei-on: 3.42
Fuse: 6.17
Gen: 8.00
Liza: 8.17
Mei-ling: 5.90
Roufas: 6.50
Rouge: 7.79
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
5. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
6. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
7. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
8. Haar (FE10) 9.17
9t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
9t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
11. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
12. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
13. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
14. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
15. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
16. Tana (FE8) 8.73
17. Purim (SoM) 8.70
18. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
19. Asellus (SaGa) 8.67
20. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Karla (FE7) 0.77
3. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
4. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
5. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
6. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
7. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
8. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
9. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
10. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
11. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
12. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
13. Squid (FFT) 1.25
14t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
14t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
16. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
17. Garret (FE6) 1.36
18t. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
18t. Bomb (FFT) 1.50
20. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
Yes, I'm finally updating; shut up about how long it takes, you all smell!
Grandia 1:
Justin:
Sue:
Feena:
Gadwin:
Rapp:
Milda:
Guido:
Liete:
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan:
Ildon:
Mesarthim:
Rei:
Silence:
Timelord:
White Rose:
Zozma:
-
Even ignoring the easiness of the enemies, G1 characters pretty much all have magic (exception of Disc 2 temps), so they all kinda rule. Hard to judge balance when everyone is really good.
Grandia 1:
Justin: 8/10
You have the longest time to build his magic, he's fast, and a solid mage and fighter.
Sue: 3/10
PUFF PUFF RAH RAH GOOOO JUSTIN! Seriously she's fine but "frail" and a temp, so.
Feena: 7/10
See Justin. Slighty less damage vs. randoms via pounding combo though for easy victories.
Gadwin: 5/10
Not bad, but ultimately an extra physical tank, and if the game had thrown hordes of competent randoms at you, you'd want a Justin or Feena's mageiness more than his limited Dragon Cut Slashes.
Rapp: 4/10
Joins late, so doesn't get as much cool magic. Worst mage anyway.
Milda: 5/10
See Gadwin.
Guido: 3/10
He's another warm body at least.
Liete: 6/10
Pretty neat, but is notably frail unlike Feena and not as fast as J & F.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin - Yeah, he's pretty good. That said the main G1 characters tend to fall within the same general band of usefulness but. 6.5/10
Sue - Eh, 3.5/10 seems fair. The whole frail thing barely matters and even with the whole temp thing you at least get to give part of her skill xp to someone else, which isn't the greatest thing ever but hey it means giving her mana eggs isn't a total waste.
Feena: A little worse than Justin but not so much as to justify a lower score. 6.5/10
Gadwin: Is the best temp for whatever that is worth. 5/10
Rapp: whoo disc 2 joiner with no magic so his magic is shit! this is the way. That said it is a permament G1 PC, same general band of usefulness and all. 5/10
Milda: Worse than Gadwin. 4/10
Guido: G1 character can only be so bad but Guido is that bad. 2/10
Liete: 6/10 works.
SaGa Frontier Mystics: Largely copying NEB's scores with one adjustment out of laziness
Dr. Nusakan: 5.5/10.
Ildon: 2/10. No.
Mesarthim: 7/10.
Rei: 1/10.
Silence: 1/10.
Timelord: 6.5/10.
White Rose: 5/10.
Zozma: 6/10.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 7/10. Good economical damage options, and the ID weapons are actually kinda nice in-game, felt faster which is what's important with enemies that bad. Good moves for grinding (hi, Dragon King Slice!), if that's your thing.
Sue: 4/10. Really early her techs give you some tools you otherwise don't have yet (ie without mana eggs even her crummy healing is something), and she fills party slots that are otherwise empty without being a particular liability about it.
Feena: 7/10. Lacks the cost effective punch of Justin, but her speed and good selection of healing spells helps.
Gadwin: 5/10. He'd be more valuable in a harder game (the HP is great), but as is fairly average.
Rapp: 5/10. CLear loser of the final PCs.
Milda: 4/10. At this stage of the game, the effect not having magic has on non-Strength stats is... palpable. ie she is so damn slow. Her good techs instantly wiping out her SP pool doesn't help.
Guido: 3/10. Better than a null slot. He can at least be another target while Justin and Rapp do useful things. Although for the life of me I can't remember why you don't get Milda for this stretch of the game.
Liete: 8/10. Like Justin, good cost-effective damage. And Enclose because why not, apparently. Because we needed a move better than Spellbinding Eye in an easier game.
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: Didn't recruit.
Ildon: Didn't use.
Mesarthim: ... I forget which of the above reasons factored in here. Oh, I did use her for a bit but didn't realize you could get her back.
Rei: Also didn't recruit. Keep in mind I actually DID do Asellus' quest. Rei was just silly.
Silence: Didn't use.
Timelord: 8/10. Time leap is absurd, but even with Stasis Rune he doesn't work quite like Blue somehow. Also late of course.
White Rose: 6/10. Feels kinda jeigan-esque, but in a hard quest with limited early options.
Zozma: 8/10. I can't help but feel there is some sort of private joke about Akuma fanboys inherent in the character and I'm not sure what it is exactly.
-
Maybe later on G1. Game is too easy to inspire significant caring at the moment. If I'm really lazy I may just copy Random.
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: 5.5/10. Fairly generic mystic. This isn't really a good thing since I think mystics are one of the weaker races, but he avoids one of the reasons for this (sucky locked armour) and has a decent unique healing move which frees up a slot that would have to go to StarlightHeal, so sure, this works.
Ildon: 2/10. No.
Mesarthim: 7/10. Has some usability problems in many quests, but the ones where you can actually get her early she is quite good because she avoids the armour problem -and- has a really useful healing spell in LifeRain. Still not as good a choice as the best humans, fairly clearly, though.
Rei: 1/10. Ildon with actual reasons to use her but even worse otherwise, and those actual reasons are still pretty terrible.
Silence: 1/10. Maybe I'm being too harsh on both Silence and Rei, but they're probably the worst two characters in a cast of 38 (Turnip puts up a fight) so whatever.
Timelord: 6.5/10. Well, he'd be much better if TimeLeap and TimeEclipse were actually unique to him, but since it's a choice between recruiting them and teaching them to someone else (potentially two someone elses), he's not going to get credit here. He's also a bit cumbersome due to being late (e.g. unlikely to get the light gift). That said he gets some points just for the fact that OverDrive is useful at worst and totally game-breaking at best, and I guess he does save you some money on Time Magic too.
White Rose: 5/10. Generic mystic, but at least she doesn't screw anything up, and has a bit of a jeigan period in Asellus' quest.
Zozma: 8/10. SharpPain is stupid good, especially since Saga has scary randoms in the second half. This leaves him a little lacking against bosses, granted, though this can be fixed (e.g. TimeLeap!). Loses half a point because some things do resist SharpPain enough to be annoying.
-
I missed Lufia 2? Blargh.
Grandia 1:
Justin: 9/10. Good damage and is around the entire game to buff up.
Sue: 5/10. Fills her slot well enough but fails to excel.
Feena: 7.5/10. Decent mage, decent all around but not great. Shame her ultimate is ridiculous to get.
Gadwin: 5/10. Nice temp.
Rapp: 6/10. Useful enough though is held back by his late joining.
Milda: 4/10. Hits things.
Guido: 0/10. I'd rather have the empty slot.
Liete: 7/10. Generally useful.
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: 6/10. Mystic Wear is a nice advantage but he's not around enough.
Ildon: 3/10. Crap Mystic on a Mystic heavy quest.
Mesarthim: 8/10. 7.75 points for life rain.
Rei: 1/10. Simply horrible.
Silence: 0/10. I'd rather have the Sanctuary Stone. Fuck you, Silence.
Timelord: 10/10. Skill set is broken.
White Rose: 6/10. Useful temp.
Zozma: 4/10. Sharp Pain is okay but he has little else.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 7/10
Sue: 4/10
Feena: 7/10
Gadwin: 5/10
Rapp: 5.5/10
Milda: 3.5/10
Guido: Bunny!/10
Liete: 7/10
Yeah works. I don't really remember this cast much since I think I only did one full play through and then my replay left off with a save where I was levelling up Sue's stuff for the crayons later and I eventually got bored /distracted, went to play another game and forgot about it~
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 8 - Good stats combo plus all the best skills, those skills are generally easy-to-get, and he's always around. Never game-breaking apart from the fact that playing Grandia at all is breaking it.
Sue: 3 - Kind of sad, but she's a warm body when you need it, and is generally effective enough. In a harder game, she would be penalized more.
Feena: 7.5 - Joins a little more powerful than Justin if you sped through the earlier sections IIRC? I remember I generally relied on Feena more than any other PC. If her ultimates ever saw any in-game use and weren't just a cute bonus for grinding, she'd probably be worth a 9~
Gadwin: 4 - Solid temp, useful enough when he's around, but that's not for very long and he can't learn all magic types, so he's really limited and noticably slow.
Rapp: 7 - Speedy! Generally works for tying up enemies with his physicals and can learn all magic types to play a support role in a pinch. Joins a little late, but generally I didn't do any of the side challenges until I got him and he was great for tackling those.
Milda: 3 - No magic, too damn slow. Worked as a warm body for some side-challenges at least.
Guido: 0 - Can we give zeroes? He needs a 0. A 0.5 at least.
Liete: 6.5 - Good out of the box, held back by slowness and fraility and joining way too late.
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: 6 - Higher-end Mystic, useful on the quests you can get him.
Ildon: 1.5 - At least he's plot-given so if you didn't recruit anyone else, he's a warm body?
Mesarthim: 7.5 - The best you'll get out of non-TimeLord Mystics, and arguably better for availability, especially in Asellus/Emelia's quests. LifeRain fills an uncommon niche even with the versatility of Humans, and she's innate immune to Water attacks which spoils some bosses. Makes a decent tank if you get her Mystic equips filled with decent stuff early on.
Rei: 0 - Guido-level, optional, hard-to-find, one-quest-only... but uh... has ID? (So does Nusakan)
Silence: 1 - At least he's easy to get? Worse stats than Ildon and doesn't even function as a Mystic for a lot of the reasons you'd want one (like getting Mesarthim).
Timelord: 8.5 - Available on nearly all quests, great stats/skills out-of-the-box, and OverDrive wrecks bosses' shit. Just... gotten so late in general.
White Rose: 6 - Jeigan-powered Mystic when you really want one. Starts with Healing! It's been said. Just too bad about being a temp.
Zozma: 5.5 - Generally decent w/ SharpPain, but limited availability and having lots of options in the quests he's available for are kinda holding him back. Half a point for supporting open Lesbianism in Games in in the 90s~ Progressive guy.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 8 - Good stats combo plus all the best skills, those skills are generally easy-to-get, and he's always around. Never game-breaking apart from the fact that playing Grandia at all is breaking it.
Sue: 3 - Kind of sad, but she's a warm body when you need it, and is generally effective enough. In a harder game, she would be penalized more.
Feena: 7.5 - Joins a little more powerful than Justin if you sped through the earlier sections IIRC? I remember I generally relied on Feena more than any other PC. If her ultimates ever saw any in-game use and weren't just a cute bonus for grinding, she'd probably be worth a 9~
Gadwin: 4 - Solid temp, useful enough when he's around, but that's not for very long and he can't learn all magic types, so he's really limited and noticably slow.
Rapp: 7 - Speedy! Generally works for tying up enemies with his physicals and can learn all magic types to play a support role in a pinch. Joins a little late, but generally I didn't do any of the side challenges until I got him and he was great for tackling those.
Milda: 3 - No magic, too damn slow. Worked as a warm body for some side-challenges at least.
Guido: 0 - Can we give zeroes? He needs a 0. A 0.5 at least.
Liete: 6.5 - Good out of the box, held back by slowness and fraility and joining way too late.
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: 6 - Higher-end Mystic, useful on the quests you can get him.
Ildon: 1.5 - At least he's plot-given so if you didn't recruit anyone else, he's a warm body?
Mesarthim: 7.5 - The best you'll get out of non-TimeLord Mystics, and arguably better for availability, especially in Asellus/Emelia's quests. LifeRain fills an uncommon niche even with the versatility of Humans, and she's innate immune to Water attacks which spoils some bosses. Makes a decent tank if you get her Mystic equips filled with decent stuff early on.
Rei: 0 - Guido-level, optional, hard-to-find, one-quest-only... but uh... has ID? (So does Nusakan)
Silence: 1 - At least he's easy to get? Worse stats than Ildon and doesn't even function as a Mystic for a lot of the reasons you'd want one (like getting Mesarthim).
Timelord: 8.5 - Available on nearly all quests, great stats/skills out-of-the-box, and OverDrive wrecks bosses' shit. Just... gotten so late in general.
White Rose: 6 - Jeigan-powered Mystic when you really want one. Starts with Healing! It's been said. Just too bad about being a temp.
Zozma: 5.5 - Generally decent w/ SharpPain, but limited availability and having lots of options in the quests he's available for are kinda holding him back. Half a point for supporting open Lesbianism in Games in in the 90s~ Progressive guy.
Close enough.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 9/10 - Great fighter and mage. His weapon selection is among the best of all characters. You also have him around for the whole game.
Sue: 6/10 - She's frail and has an insane long recovery time. Fortunately, this is Grandia, so it doesn't matter that much. She has access to all four elements, which is what counts the most. She also has a move that allows her to level up Earth and Fire really fast, but she leaves to soon for it to matter.
Feena: 7.5/10 - Good mage, but the lack of strength boosting weapons limits her fighting abilities. She's still a decent fighter by virtue of having great moves, but she won't deal that much damage with them. Finally, while she has a good spell selection, she sometimes have holes in her arsenal where she's forced to use spells that are either to weak or to expensive.
Gadwin: 5/10 - Tanky in a game where it doesn't matter. Decent fighter, but a poor mage due only having two elements.
Rapp: 6.5/10 - Speedy and has access to all elements. Have a hard time building them up fast enough though and isn't that great of a fighter.
Milda: 3/10 - No elements, poor skills and low speed. Her high HP matters little since it's Gradia.
Guido: 1/10 - Well, he can cancel single enemies that manages to slip past Justin's and Rapp's AoE nukes, but that's it.
Liete: 6/10 - Generally great spells, but her elemental level is lower than that of the rest and she has limited time to catch up. She'd also want more weapons to help boosting her stats.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 7.5/10. Yeah, good at what he does, just everyone in G1 felt effective outside of a few minor hiccups, so I can't realistically give him higher (I'm not trying to say "GAME IS TOO EASY!")
Sue: 3/10. one of said hiccups. Sue is just there for an extra warm body who isn't that good.
Feena: 7/10. Faster Justin whose worse in most other ways, and gets a bunch of late game skills gotten too late to really push her ahead? Yeah, sure why not.
Gadwin: 5/10. I remember Dragon Slice wiping out randoms for that stretch of the game well enough, and he has massive HP, and is faster than people think (lots of levels of Swords and Fire)
Rapp: 6/10. Worse Feena.
Milda: 5/10. Gadwin with worse MT but O_o ST. Ok, her durability isn't as insane, but she's still more durable than the main team from my recollection.
Guido: 1.5/10. Uhh...yeah, see Sue? Guido's just worse. Giving him a 0 is too harsh though, given he's forced and an extra warm body when you only have 2 other PCs, so that's clearly much better than "0" use, for all that any other character would have filled the role better.
Liete: 6/10. Decent, but gotten late and such.
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: 6/10. Mystic with a neat gimmick. Half a point for making that Suzaku in Blue's Quest much easier to take on early due to coming with Death.
Ildon: 3/10. I respect Mystics more than most people, I think...but yeah, he's still not very good.
Mesarthim: 7/10. Has Nusakan's gimmick, but better stuff with it! Also immune to some attacks at all times doesn't hurt.
Rei: 1/10. Oh look, unique magic set that's kind of cool! Oh wait, joins late in one quest with 2 digit HP and no absorptions, and no other useful magic's learned *punts*
Silence: 1.5/10. Ildon, but with worse stats, forces you to get Dark Magic for your main (meaning you can't get, say, Mega Wind Blast on your main and Silence ni the same game), AND stops you from getting Mesarthim. BRILLIANT COMBO THERE! I find it hard to put him lower than Rei though cause at least Silence feels usable in that "he's really bad" way.
Timelord: 6/10. He can do the Overdrive Loop if you hold off on getting Rune Magic until after he joins, but yeah, really the big thing about Time Magic are things many other characters can get from storebought Time Magic. Overdrive is a decent last ditch Trump Card I suppose,.
White Rose: 4/10. Flash Fire makes her a good Jeigan for Asellus' quest, but after that, she's really not very good. Doesn't help that she perma-leaves in Asellus' quest so any time spent on her is somewhat wasted after those early parts (though, her being permanent in Emelia's Quest is handy, and she has some Jeigan worth as a brief temp in Red's Quest.)
Zozma: 8/10. Sharp Pain is just THAT GOOD. Its one move, but makes him clearly the best Mystic cause he completely trivializes 90% of the Randoms in the game which is actually noteworthy in a game like SaGa. Was going to give him lower due to lack of boss utility, but then remembered "oh right, Time Leap can be given to him" so now he's just nulling out ALL enemy turns.
-
Justin: 7/10. Solid enough in most regards without ever feeling exceptional.
Sue: 3.5/10. Decent mage, but inferior stats to the "real" PCs in general.
Feena: 7/10. Justin with more strengths and weaknesses both, feels balanced enough. Faster but more limited physical damage options, mostly.
Gadwin: 5/10. He's really hard to rate.
Rapp: 4/10. Obvious LVP of the permanent PCs. But not bad.
Milda: 4.5/10. Milda Hit really hurts, but aside from that and her HP (which... at least matters more than Gadwin's), she has some problems due to no magic and limited SP.
Guido: 2/10. Sue version NoMagic. Whoops.
Liete: 6.5/10. Enclose is sexy. Not bad otherwise. Could use a bit more speed though.
-
Grandia 1:
Justin: 7.70
Sue: 3.80
Feena: 7.15
Gadwin: 4.80
Rapp: 5.90
Milda: 3.90
Guido: 1.39
Liete: 6.55
SaGa Frontier Mystics:
Dr. Nusakan: 5.83
Ildon: 2.17
Mesarthim: 7.33
Rei: 0.67
Silence: 0.92
Timelord: 7.71
White Rose: 5.42
Zozma: 6.43
Best rating of this session: Timelord w/ 7.71
Worst rating of this session: Rei w/ 0.67
Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
5. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
6. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
7. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
8. Haar (FE10) 9.17
9t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
9t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
11. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
12. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
13. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
14. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
15. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
16. Tana (FE8) 8.73
17. Purim (SoM) 8.70
18. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
19. Asellus (SaGa) 8.67
20. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
5. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
6. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
7. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
8. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
9. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
10. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
11. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
12. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
13. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
14. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
15. Squid (FFT) 1.25
16t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
16t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
18. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
19. Garret (FE6) 1.36
20. Guido (Grandia) 1.39
For the record, any "*insert silly thing here*/10" rating will be treated as an abstain. Just keep this in mind when you do stuff like that (or if you want a real rating be sure to asterisk or put the real rating in parentheses or whatever)
That said...
Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu:
Rei:
Teepo:
Nina:
Momo:
Peco:
Garr:
SaGa Frontier Mecs:
BJ&K:
Engineer Car:
Leonard:
PzkwV:
Rabbit:
ZEKE:
-
Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 9/10.
Rei: 7/10.
Teepo: 4/10.
Nina: 3/10.
Momo: 6/10.
Peco: 3/10.
Garr: 5/10.
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 10/10
Rei: 7/10
Teepo: 4/10
Nina: 5/10
Momo: 6/10
Peco: 2/10
Garr: 5/10
SaGa Frontier Mecs:
BJ&K: 8/10
Engineer Car: 3/10
Leonard: 6/10
PzkwV: 3/10
Rabbit: 3/10
ZEKE: 6/10
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 10/10. It's Ryu. The best even if you ignore dragons, which is something given how good the dragons are.
Rei: 6/10. Fast at least, though durability could be better. I'm probably underrating him a bit because of Chain Formation which I didn't get. May edit.
Teepo: Pass.
Nina: 3/10. Nice start, but little reason to use her later.
Momo: 7/10. Heals so Ryu doesn't have to, I like this.
Peco: 2/10. Lacks Nina's good start. The twinking arguments for him don't really hold water to me, seems like you could do better twinking others.
Garr: 5/10. Well, not Garr. Nobody suffers more from twinking/knowledge of the game than Garr. That said, for ignorant elves when they played the game for the first time, he was one of the top three PCs for most of the game. Good at what he does.
BJ&K: 7/10. Medipack is a cool quirk. Otherwise... the type of mec he is would lack damage, but the only quest he's on features TigerRampage, so he's largely set. High INT helps for setting the things you need, too.
EngineerCar: 5/10. Weird case. His unique quirks involve helping other mecs, but the quest you're most likely to use other mecs on, there's a better version of him. In all other quests he works as a pretty generic mec option but inferior to T2 overall, though he does get PopKnight at least (slightly better than ShockSoldier, which T2 gets).
Leonard: 7/10. Said better version of EngineerCar. I guess you could use both, but meh. Good stats, supports well, and gets PopKnight which is pretty rockin'.
PzkwV: 2/10. Only reason to use him is if you want a party of all mecs. Limited equip slots sucks, as does a weak self-development list.
Rabbit: 4/10. Suffers a lot because it's hard to use both him and BJ&K on Red's quest (only one TigerRampage, both have damage issues otherwise), and SatelliteLinker is much, much worse than Medipack. Stats are probably slightly worse too.
ZEKE: 6/10. Badly needs one of the support mecs to keep his low WP up, but the only quest he's on is a good one for mecs, so sure. Great speed / no weak stats otherwise.
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: NEB pretty much sums it up, Ryu3 is just freakin' silly. 10/10
Rei: Not really sure how I feel about Rei, but I'm at least willing to credit him being in the top half of the cast. 6/10
Teepo: Abstain
Nina: Is okay early! Not so much later on. 3/10
Momo: Yep. 7/10
Peco: lawl. 2/10
Garr: Eh. 5/10
I realize I just burped NEB again. Damn you Canadian mind control devices!
SaGa Frontier Mecs: Abstain. I do not have a good grasp on mecs in general. fine i'll copy neb's numbers *again* jeez meeple
BJ&K: 7/10
Engineer Car: 5/10
Leonard: 7/10
PzkwV: 2/10
Rabbit: 4/10
ZEKE: 6/10
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Ryu: 10/10 Broken, nearly impossible to kill, decent speed, good equips, hits hardest in the cast by a large magnitude.
Rei: 7/10 Damned good, would be 8/10 if he joined a touch earlier. Decent skillset, fantastic powergaming potential and Speed is pretty much a god stat in BoF 3 if only for allowing you to be an amazing item boy (with BoF 3s very cheap effective healing items). Carried a bit by equip options. Not as good as Ryu's but has a good spread with weapons and armour.
Teepo: DNR. His primary uses are power gaming.
Nina: 7/10 I have ranted how bad Nina is in the long term a whole ton before. This is In Game use though. You know those parts Rei isn't in that hold him back from 8/10? Those are the parts where Nina really shines. She is there a lot and when she is forced she is damned good. The only point she really starts to fall off is in the Volcano and hey look she learned Iceblast. Now she is great again. Get her early Typhoon and early game she is like 9/10 worthy. She falls down after the Volcano, but mostly because Angel Tower has some straight up rude randoms with good physicals. She never really picks up. That first half of the game though? She is awesome and totally worth the character slot.
Momo: 6/10 She is good. She is absolutely amazing if you power game her to have good magic coverage or straight up turn her into a physical character with the AP to carry a healing skillset. Sadly that just means that she is a weaker Ryu. With a 3 slot party I don't really have room to swing a proto-Ryu. She is good and you will beat the game with her quite easilly, but you will beat the game quite easilly with anyone. Her real downfall is that I see her coming just at a point where you are about to get a character that slots into the available niche much better and doesn't need to be powergamed.
Peco: 2/10 lol no. He is good and you will break the game if you use him properly. I find his equipment choices dreadfully limiting. He doesn't need the defense or attack power of course, but he sure would like some more diverse weapon options or special effects available on them both. He is a lame version of Ershin in that department with none of the fun neat armours that Ershin gets.
Garr: 6/10 In game use he honestly isn't much better than Momo. He just slots in a bit better when you are running along with a choice between all the other characters I find. He doesn't step on anyone elses toes really. Bonus points for Beast Spear really bringing him into play in the last quarter of the game because holy shit that thing hits like a truck. If he didn't have that (which is entirely possible without knowing the game) then I would probably dump him for Momo about that point. He does though, so he is my prime choice. Either works just as well though, so they get the same rating. Just shine at different points and is a case of effort vs no effort. Edit - Case in point, you know what Momo needs to be good? Shadowwalk, which everyone wants. You know what Garr needs? Double Blow.
-
Abstaining on the Mecs out of complete apathy.
Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 9/10
Rei: 8/10
Teepo: 6/10 - Gets the job done when you need him.
Nina: 7/10 - Nina's useful in game and gets things done well enough. She can be replaced later on if you load someone up with Deis master powers, but she's good at what she does.
Momo: 5/10. Useful but some quirks hold her back.
Peco: 1/10.
Garr: 4/10.
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 10 - Solo the game yes please
Rei: 7.5 - Speed Speed Speed, but a bit late.
Teepo: 4 - uh... okay temp
Nina: 2 - Had a hard time ever making her useful. Mostly points for being a warm body... when she wasn't dead.
Momo: 6 - Healing! Just what I needed since Ryu's busy being my main source of damage.
Peco: 2 - Uh... Warm body? Can be good, but there's not even a reason to bother due to availability, unlike Nina. Trade-off is that whenever I used Peco, at least he wasn't constantly dead.
Garr: 5 - Feels pretty average. Decent out of the box, but that speed is headache inducing.
SaGa Frontier Mecs:
BJ&K: 7 - SaGa Mecs are all pretty awesome due to equipment abusability. Limited availability hurts him, though.
Engineer Car: 7.5 - Mostly points for being the most widely-available Mec (apart from T260) and the inherent brokenness that gives a party.
Leonard: 7 - Strictly better than EC, but availability woes
PzkwV: 5 - Worst Mec, though that's still not bad...
Rabbit: 6 - Availability woes, though he's naturally fast and situationally useful when he's around.
ZEKE: 6 - He's pretty good, but again, availability holds back the Mecs.
Elfboy, you should totally add a section to your stat topic with Averages for each character's story, since say Doll will never be held against Captain Hamilton in a normal playthrough.
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No, Doll is held against a path that includes Red + 4 mecs instead, which is worse. <_<
I could be talked into doing that, but I doubt it'd make too much difference overall. I'd imagine T260G and Red would have the highest averages, so characters only available on those quests (or who want to be taken on those quests, e.g. T2 herself) would suffer a little. But I'd expect the change would be quite small.
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 10/10 - Kills crappy enemies dead.
Rei: 7/10 Fast and decent.
Teepo: ?/10 - No idea how i'd rate him.
Nina: 2/10 I really don't see where people get this is good in main game business. For me she was good in the first area/s and then become so rubbish that I regretted using her and having to suffer her lol worthy offence.
Momo: 8/10 - Besides physicals which I've never gotten to work accurately she is the best character to have in the third slot.
Peco: 10/10 Haters be hating on my boy Peco.
Garr: 3/10 Is Ryu except he has worse attack, speed, options, appearance, no dragon forms, no blue hair and...actually he is not like Ryu at all my mistake but a crappy physical attacker with lol worthy magic.
-
Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 10/10. Yeah, pretty much the most overpowered character like...ever. Your Main healer who is tanky with decent speed and damage, and a few nice support spells like Shield, as well as deep AP resources to run just about any role you want him to via skills, and Masters...and this is before factoring in what really makes him broken.
Rei: 6/10. He's good when he's around, but he misses like the entire first half of the game; even before Balio/Sunder, he has long leaves of absences, so his Jeigan uses are compromised. That said, only character who do damage that can kind of keep up with Ryu (though requires Influence), and constant Ex Turns, as well as a few nice support spells make him good in the 2nd half.
Teepo: 5/10. He's Ryu with slightly better stats and boss damage but no healing. Losing trade overall, I'd say.
Nina: 4/10. I...think some people are overselling how good she is early game. She's merely decent early on, and actually, Typhoon doesn't make her more useful, cause she's not the ideal user of it, and that compromises her use right there. She's always Frail, however, to the point where its a liability, not quite fast enough to Ex-turn before Masters kick in, and she's pretty much completely useless in the 2nd half of the game. Honestly, once you get Garr, the only reason to use Nina (forced moments aside) is in the Volcano where yeah, Iceblast is pretty rocking.
Momo: 7/10. Momo is part of what holds Nina back. Quake is good early on, if limited, for MT damage, and Typhoon is better used on her due to higher Int and how Momo can kind of take a hit (and her durability isn't unsalvageable-able the way Nina's is)...she pretty much obsoletes Nina outside of resources and speed, and nina usually doesn't Ex-turn so the speed thing ends up not meaning as much as it does with, say, Rei, and in the case of resources, that's offset by how Momo can do actual things on her turn without costing AP (ie she has an actual physical.) Actually, Momo having a decent physical matters a lot since it means she can use things like Shadow Walk and do actual reliable damage.
Peco: 3/10. I use to hype the guy, but...yeah, not really much going for him. His equipment was far too bad for its own good, which is what really holds him back, since it maens that Twink Potential...doesn't go far. So why isn't Peco lower? Well, he does a few things decent. For starters, unlike Rei and Garr, he has an AP score and actual MT Damage that registers. But more importantly, cause he joins at level 1, he makes getting master skills so much easier, and he can absorb bad stat gains as a result so you never have to care. In the end, though, that's all he's really good for. They basically tried to bring a Rand-style character back from BoF2, except his bases aren't as good as Rand's to offset the equipment, and his skillset is like a fraction of the use overall.
Garr: 6/10. Garr's good at what he does. Takes hits well, dishes them out reasonably well, ESPECIALLY once he gets the Beast Lance, and...ok, that's all he's good at, but he does it well enough that you're set. He compliments both Momo and Rei nicely for different reasons. He'd be higher, but poor AP and Speed limits his offensive potential. His skillset could be a little better too.
SaGa Frontier Mecs:
BJ&K: 6/10. Mec with a neat gimmick!
Engineer Car: 5/10. Mec with a less neat Gimmick! Nice availability though.
Leonard: 7/10. Above Mec but better!
PzkwV: 3/10. In a story where you have a lot of Mecs, and they're all better, so there's no reason to use him like ever.
Rabbit: 5/10. BJ&K with a less useful Gimmick, yeah that works.
ZEKE: 6/10. Kamikaze is good damage, and he's fast regardless, so that's worth something.
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 10- lol broken lol
Rei: 8- wishes he were around more, gets EX turns quite often
Teepo:- do not rank, if he gets enough votes for ranking though give him an 8. Pretty much equal to Ryu stat wise.
Nina: 5- good early game mage, and even though she is the worst at the end she still came out usable in my Nina/Garr playthrough
Momo: 8- Healer.
Peco: 3- He can be awesome if you raise him. Apparently in attack formation he has 100% counter? but mostly just a skill decoy
Garr: 5- Tank.
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Breath of Fire 3:
Ryu: 9.8
Rei: 6.95
Teepo: 4.60
Nina: 4.10
Momo: 6.6
Peco: 3.00
Garr: 4.9
SaGa Frontier Mecs:
BJ&K: 7.00
Engineer Car: 5.10
Leonard: 6.80
PzkwV: 3.00
Rabbit: 4.40
ZEKE: 6.00
Best Rating of this session: Ryu w/ 9.80
Worst Rating of this session: Tied between Peco and PzkwV at 3.00
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
15. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
16. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
17. Tana (FE8) 8.73
18. Purim (SoM) 8.70
19. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
20. Asellus (SaGa) 8.67
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
5. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
6. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
7. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
8. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
9. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
10. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
11. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
12. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
13. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
14. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
15. Squid (FFT) 1.25
16t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
16t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
18. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
19. Garret (FE6) 1.36
20. Guido (Grandia) 1.39
You guys need to join in and rate more! On a different note...
Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia:
Ragnar:
Healie:
Alena:
Cristo/Kyril:
Brey/Borya:
Torneko Taloon:
Mara/Maya:
Nara/Meena:
Orin/Oojam:
Doran/Sparkie:
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
Cotton:
King Sei:
Kylin:
Red Turnip:
Slime:
Suzaku:
Thunder:
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser:
Hard Knuckle:
Magnet Missile:
Mega Buster:
Needle Cannon:
Rush Coil:
Rush Jet:
Rush Marine:
Search Snake:
Shadow Blade:
Spark Shock:
Top Spin:
I promise, next session will be more interesting than this one...mostly cause it will lack SaGa Monsters...yeah...sorry about that <_<;
Also, while normally I prefer to split rankings up between versions, in DQ4's case, I'll just say "Rank based on whatever you want" cause apparently the differences aren't big enough to give a shit about, and I don't think there's enough players to justify two rankings among individual versions or something.
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Ew, Saga monsters and MM3 weapons.
Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8/10. Little slow, but has full MT healing and a good skillset/equips.
Ragnar: 4.5/10. Tanks!
Healie: DNR
Alena: 8/10. Damage!
Cristo/Kyril: 7.5/10. Awesome skillset, fucking awful damage. Balances.
Brey/Borya: 5/10. Awesome skillset, STATS OF INFINITE FAIL.
Torneko Taloon: 2/10. Useless in every version I've played. He's slow, not especially damaging and his pool of equipment is pretty unimpressive to boot.
Mara/Maya: 4/10. Attack magic in DQ4=no past the earlygame.
Nara/Meena: 3/10. Averaging the two games, because she is 1/10 in 4o, and 6/10 in 4r.
Orin/Oojam: DNR
Doran/Sparkie: 1/10. Useless.
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Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 6/10
Ragnar: 6/10
Healie: 4/10
Alena: 8/10
Cristo/Kyril: 7/10
Brey/Borya: 5/10
Torneko Taloon: 2/10
Mara/Maya: 5/10
Nara/Meena: 5/10
Orin/Oojam: DNR
Doran/Sparkie: DNR
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Man, I was rating, and when I went to post, you posted the update. I blame you for the lack of warning!
Dragon Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8.6/10 (8.7/10 for Sofia). Sofia is ACTUALLY SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN SOLO BECAUSE OF BEING A WOMAN AND ABLE TO WEAR A PIECE OF ARMOUR yeah whatever...great but not dominating, a few bonus points for only one you can control.
Ragnar: 6.4/10. Straightforward, but that makes him excellent under AI control.
Healie: 7/10. SO useful for Ragnar's quest, but doesn't do a thing but heal.
Alena: 8.5/10. Hey it's Ragnar but a lot better.
Cristo: 4.9/10. AI hate - really, really, really was bad for me. Theoretically should be awesome. I've played other versions, but the original is my standard.
Brey: 5.3/10. Much less AI hate. Decent overall with his speed and damage, but wish he could use the support skills more.
Taloon: 6.9/10. Like Ragnar, but the stealing is nice, and his AI oddities are actually useful.
Mara: 5.3/10. Felt like the best mage AI, but her spell line felt the most resisted, and she didn't have much else.
Nara: 4.9/10. Better AI than Cristo, and made a great heal battery, but kind of useless otherwise.
Orin: 6.9/10. Wish you could control him, but was great for the time.
Doran: 4/10. Too...bleh. I'd rather take another character that I couldn't control than him.
Don't care about monsters right now.
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser: 7/10. Bouncy~
Hard Knuckle: 4/10. Kills some bosses.
Magnet Missile: 4/10. Kills...Hard Man? Anything else? It has the kind of homing effect, but I'm just not that impressed.
Mega Buster: 8/10. Always useful.
Needle Cannon: 4/10. Felt...like the mega buster. Except not as versatile.
Rush Coil: 10/10. Owns high ground so hard.
Rush Jet: 10/10. Owns non-water sections so hard.
Rush Marine: 10/10. Owns the water sections so hard.
Search Snake: 4/10. Hits a hard to reach area.
Shadow Blade: 8.5/10. Hey, aimable!
Spark Shock: 3/10. I remember it bouncing off everything way back when.
Top Spin: 5/10. Been so long since I played the game...I need to fix that. Anyway, bonus points for killing final Wily, but didn't feel that useful otherwise.
How about we rank some REAL weapons? I want to rank the Springfield, damnit!
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As a disclaimer, I rate Dragon Quest 4 based on controllable allies, either in the NES version or DS version (there are differences, but they're pretty small overall). Also, blanket abstain on all temps/NPCs/whatever we call them.
EDIT: Adding the temps that I care about.
Dragon Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8/10. A bit slow, but durable, good attack, and good healing all adds up nicely. Lightning is a nice last-second pickup.
Ragnar: 4/10. Great durability, but that's about it.
Healie: 2/10. Uh he heals. Don't see how he's not clearly worse than Nara, though.
Alena: 9/10. That speed/power, plus the totally unnecessary double-hit weapon. Nobody works harder to make sure enemies don't overwhelm you. Only merely a solid PC against bosses, queen by far against randoms.
Cristo: 8/10. Upper/Increase is very solid in the original, but ultimately it's the healing (including MT healing) off good speed that is doughnuts in both versions.
Brey: 6/10. Probably the main case where someone feels nerfed between the two versions. Oomph took a hit and Snowstorm felt like it got resisted a lot more. Still, Acceleratle keeps his score to respectable regardless, even if the durability is trash.
Taloon: 2/10. Decent until people start gaining stats faster than him around Level 18-20 or so. Then he sucks.
Mara: 4/10. Has her moments as a glass cannon, just ugh fire against so many things.
Nara: ... 3/10. Trash in the original, decent in the remake. Still, I think most of her points in the remake come from "Insulatle is awesome in the aftergame" which... I'm not inclined to give her much credit for. Oh well, at least she can be a heal battery.
Orin: 1/10. Clearly worse than the sisters, he is pretty much Nara without healing and the ability to be controlled.
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
Cotton: 3/10. He has some uses if you can dodge some Biolab randoms that kick your teeth in I guess. Second PC on Red's quest or something like that.
King Sei: 6/10. Godawful on quests that aren't Riki's because he competes with awesome loot. On Riki's quest, very high-level monster means he's solid. So... he's happy I rate on most favourable quest appearance.
Kylin: 6/10. Reverse Gravity is pretty cool, and he has a decent form (immune to everything pretty much). Can absorb some other skills to round out an okay skillset.
Red Turnip: 1/10. Ha ha ha ha ha. He's not -that- underlevelled so he's workable if you care but WHY.
Slime: 1/10. Grossly inferior to other monster options in almost every way.
Suzaku: 2/10. Suzaku's an okay form, but you don't want to do this quest early. Plus he's extreem FAQ-bait.
Thunder: 5/10. Decent jeigan even without plumbing the depths of monster abilities, so that's something.
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser: 6/10. I quite like this for some bank shots, and it OHKOs those obnoxious needledudes on Needleman's level. Not to mention Needleman himself is the hardest boss, so killing him better might be worth something.
Hard Knuckle: 5/10. Okay. It's powerful, but very slow. At least you're unlikely to miss with the controllable aspect. Good mainly for one-shotting hoppers and two-shotting certain minibosses.
Magnet Missile: 7.5/10. It locks onto stuff, you can fire more than one at a time, and its damage is decent. However, for a spammable weapon, its WE depletes quickly.
Mega Buster: 4/10. Mega Buster pre-charging tends to hand out around 4.
Needle Cannon: 2/10. Mega Buster that consumes WE, oh boy. Think the up/down alternation it has works against it to boot.
Rush Coil: 4/10. Okay utility.
Rush Jet: 9.5/10. Breaks game. Even destroys an otherwise tough boss for good measure.
Rush Marine: 3/10. Totally outclassed by Rush Jet, but it's reasonable to do Shadow (-> Snake) -> Gemini -> Needle at some point which will give RM a decent chance to shine in Gemini's level. That's its only use.
Search Snake: 1.5/10. Half a point for hitting weakness on a decent robot master. Trash otherwise, way too slow AND weak and groundcrawling is not a positive trait.
Shadow Blade: 6/10. I dunno. I dislike the one-per-screen limit on a relatively weak weapon like it. That said, the directional freedom is nice, and it does hit weakness on a few things which is cool.
Spark Shock: 1.5/10. Good against a few bosses. Worst thing ever against randoms. OH BOY YOU CAN FREEZE ENEMIES and be unable to switch weapons and still take damage if you touch them and be unable to kill them. C'mon guys. Still beats Hyper Bomb.
Top Spin: 7.5/10. I like Top Spin a lot, but I'll score it lower than I'd like because it relies somewhat on good knowledge of the game. Everything either gets OHKOed by it (a majority, but not a huge majority, of enemies) or it backfires and you take damage, so it helps a lot to know which enemies do which.
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Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: Mmm, good but didn't feel particularly exceptional in any area to justify an 8. 7/10, I guess.
Ragnar: Eh he hits things. 5/10
Healie: Abstain
Alena: Brings fast offense, this is cool. 8/10
Cristo/Kyril: Skillset! 7/10
Brey/Borya: Ewww. Better of the two attack mages I guess since he has some support skills but so awful outside of that. 4/10
Torneko Taloon: Yeah no. 2/10
Mara/Maya: Ew DQ4 attack mage. 2/10
Nara/Meena: Uh... there may be a reason to use her over Kyril I guess? 4/10
Orin/Oojam: Abstain
Doran/Sparkie: Abstain
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
Cotton: 2/10
King Sei: 5/10
Kylin: 5/10
Red Turnip: 0/10
Slime: 0/10
Suzaku: 1/10
Thunder: 4/10
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Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8/10. Healing, skillset, equipment effects.
Ragnar: Tank...ish. 4/10
Healie: Necessary! 7/10
Alena: Stiletto earring criticals. 8/10
Cristo/Kyril: Healing plus tank. 8/10
Brey/Borya: Good for MT in the midgame and shines above Mara endgame since his skills miss less against endgame enemies. Also bikill. 7/10
Torneko Taloon: Nope. 1/10
Mara/Maya: "Ew DQ4 attack mage"? I think you meant "Has the highest damage skill in the game." Still, no bikill makes her the inferior mage. Better at hunting metals due to Bedragon, though. 5/10
Nara/Meena: She's got healing but her durability is so awful and Cristo is the clearly better choice. 3/10
Orin/Oojam: Necessary! 6/10
Doran/Sparkie: 3/10 Points for metal babble hunting?
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Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 7/10. Tank, healing.
Ragnar: 6/10. Tank, damage.
Healie: DNR
Alena: DNR. She was Ragnar- for me (5/10?) but I didn't know the Stiletto Earrings ruled, so she was just damage without the tank part.
Cristo/Kyril: 7/10. Blatantly necessary.
Brey/Borya: 5/10. Solid mage option for all that the AI rarely cast Bikill to my recollection.
Torneko Taloon: 2/10. He's not an active liability (1/10 chars) and the MP-save beatdown squad is theoretically Hero / Ragnar / Alena / Taloon, but yeah, meh.
Mara/Maya: 4/10. See Brey but with less stuff.
Nara/Meena: 3/10. She's 5/10 in her own quest and early chapter 5. Then she stops getting levels and stops getting HP and eventually becomes active liability and worse than Taloon by endgame due to not being able to take a damn hit (~1.5/10 or so). Averaging it out.
Orin/Oojam: DNR.
Doran/Sparkie: DNR.
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser: 4/10. I barely used it at all for whatever reason.
Hard Knuckle: 5/10. Definitely has its uses for blowing up tanky randoms.
Magnet Missile: 7/10. Slow-firing and can still miss, but tracking weapons are always useful.
Mega Buster: 5/10 ?
Needle Cannon: 2/10. Yeah, I usually would rather use the BUster.
Rush Coil: DNR. Straight utility.
Rush Jet: 9/10. Insane, breaks game.
Rush Marine: 4/10. Fine for Gemeni Man + one of the Wily stages, useless outside of them.
Search Snake: 3/10. Occasional use.
Shadow Blade: 7/10. "Fixed" Metal Blade is still pretty damn good. Obviously problematic vs. enemies from below but that doesn't happen too often.
Spark Shock: 2/10.
Top Spin: 5/10. See Dark Holy Elf.
-
Dragon Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8 - Well-balanced, great equip-set, Fighter/Mage/Healer. Not really game-breaking, but certainly the game would be much harder without him/her.
Ragnar: 5 - Feels like a textbook average character. Durability is important, but not important enough to always earn him a spot on the team. There's still a lot worse in this cast, though, and he's awesome for MP-saving in a game that eats through MP fast against randoms.
Healie: 3 - He's pretty well-suited to his stint as an NPC, but he's still got durability of fail. Still, as a two-man team with Ragnar, they've got awesome, if simplistic chemistry.
Alena: 9.5 - Speed speed speed, damage damage damage. Works as an itemboy if you've got control, works as a fool-proof AI PC if you're playing inferior versions of the game.
Cristo: 7 - Yeah, skillset and durability. Takes a hit for his AI-self being horrible.
Brey: 4.5 - Sucks being a mage in this game, though Brey's okay. Randoms eat through MP so much that it's hard to justify using them outside of healbots, and Brey can't even do that.
Taloon: 3.5 - Owns in his own chapter against Laurel and Hardie! Has some nice out-of-battle utility. Works as a fourth for an MPless team. Randomly steals junk. Overall, an unimpressive package, but he's irreplaceable for his niches.
Mara: 4.5 - Doesn't feel all that different from Brey.
Nara: 3.5 - Really good in her own chapter, though the durability is legendary. Sucks being a mage in this game anyway.
Orin: 5 - and on that note, this guy ends up being really useful when he's around, simply because the sisters were always running out of MP.
Doran: 2 - Uh... he's cute?
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
In a rare moment, I agree entirely with Elfboy
Cotton: 3/10. He has some uses if you can dodge some Biolab randoms that kick your teeth in I guess. Second PC on Red's quest or something like that.
King Sei: 6/10. Godawful on quests that aren't Riki's because he competes with awesome loot. On Riki's quest, very high-level monster means he's solid. So... he's happy I rate on most favourable quest appearance.
Kylin: 6/10. Reverse Gravity is pretty cool, and he has a decent form (immune to everything pretty much). Can absorb some other skills to round out an okay skillset.
Red Turnip: 1/10. Ha ha ha ha ha. He's not -that- underlevelled so he's workable if you care but WHY.
Slime: 1/10. Grossly inferior to other monster options in almost every way.
Suzaku: 2/10. Suzaku's an okay form, but you don't want to do this quest early. Plus he's extreem FAQ-bait.
Thunder: 5/10. Decent jeigan even without plumbing the depths of monster abilities, so that's something.
-
Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8/10. Textbook well balanced character.
Ragnar: 5/10. Tanks well, but nothing else and its not needed as much.
Healie: DNR. Vital for finishing Ragnar's quest at a reasonable level but around too short to care otherwise.
Alena: 8/10. Hits hard and fast, but I do feel before the Stilletto Earrings, she wasn't THAT impressive, and there's a decent amount of time before those open up. Extra point for not really losing any potential with the AI on.
Cristo/Kyril: 6/10. Good healer with AI off, but with AI on he's practically worthless, so penalizing.
Brey/Borya: 5/10. Good moves for bosses, but felt kind of meaningless against like everything else.
Torneko Taloon: 2/10. Ragnar with gimmicky stuff and worse everything else to the point where its totally not worth it...at all...
Mara/Maya: 4/10. On paper, she should be really good, but Dragon Quest 4 hates Magic with it having lower accuracy than physicals, and bosses resisting it and all that. So we're left with an OCCASIONAL useful character whose a deadweight everywhere else.
Nara/Meena: 4/10. Worse than Cristo, but guess she deserves credit as an extra healing battery out of battle.
Orin/Oojam: DNR. See Healie.
Doran/Sparkie: 2/10. Actual permanent character, but a really crappy one.
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
Cotton: 5/10. Gets a point for being an early recruit for Red making him not to have to solo that early stuff (and thus not have to rely on Alkaiser, letting him gain stat boosts earlier), but otherwise meh.
King Sei: 3/10. Usable in Riki's quest, but not really that good. In other quests, gimps you out of an awesome sword.
Kylin: 6/10. Monster whose strong out of the gate *AND* has a bunch of unique shit? Yay!
Red Turnip: 1/10. Monster that joins late, with a non-stellar form and basically replaces someone whose notably better? Uh, yeah, game worst character in running!
Slime: 1/10. Awful in every regard. yes, early recruit potentially, but there are so many other generic characters available at the time, I have to question why you'd put SLIME in over all of them.
Suzaku: 2/10. If he was reasonably obtainable earlier, he'd be better I guess, but as it stands, just kind of a waste of time.
Thunder: 6/10. Part of why Slime is worthless. Thunder is easier to recruit than Slime, and takes literally one battle to become a rather strong early game character in the Trisaur form (which is pretty absurd for early game.) He's a good Jeigan as a result.
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser: 4/10. Some neat gimmick uses, but not much else.
Hard Knuckle: 6/10. Go to "Power" weapon, and tends to do good damage to like every boss.
Magnet Missile: 7/10. Decent Tracking weapon that doesn't have any real notable failings.
Mega Buster: 5/10. Mega Buster/10.
Needle Cannon: 2/10. Being able to fire only 3 at a time of this makes you question why it exists when the Mega Buster is basically the same with slightly less vertical, but infinite ammo.
Rush Coil: 6/10. Good utility.
Rush Jet: 9/10. It being nerfed in MM4 was so justified given how wrong it was in this game.
Rush Marine: 3/10. Good in Gemini Man's stage, but like never else. Rush Jet obsoletes it to boot if yo get that first.
Search Snake: 3/10. Yeah, no, it just kind of sucks. More respect for it than Needle Cannon cause at least it has theoretical gimmick uses.
Shadow Blade: 7/10. Metal Blade hit with a massive nerf stick...and its still good!
Spark Shock: 2/10. Crappy status weapon.
Top Spin: 6/10. Has some neat gimmick uses, but you really need to use it right for it to have any sort of genuine worth.
-
Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 8/10. Yo dawg, I herd you like controlling your characters.
Ragnar: 4/10. Pink is love at first sight.
Healie: DNR.
Alena: 8/10. Death goddess and AI doesn't matter.
Cristo/Kyril: 5/10. AI.
Brey/Borya: 3/10.
Torneko Taloon: 2/10. Ragnar minus, which is bad because Ragnar is Alena minus.
Mara/Maya: 3/10
Nara/Meena: 3/10
Orin/Oojam: Who?
Doran/Sparkie: Who?
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
Cotton: 3/10.
King Sei: 4/10.
Kylin: 7/10.
Red Turnip: 1/10.
Slime: 1/10.
Suzaku: 2/10.
Thunder: 5/10.
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser: 6/10. Weird. The bouncing has its uses (like hitting certain enemies in strange places) and weaknesses (bosses that you miss....).
Hard Knuckle: 6/10. Good at killing hoppers and bigass snakes. Also YD.
Magnet Missile: 7/10. Its low number of charges is its limiting factor. It needed it.
Mega Buster: 4/10. Elfy's rationale is fair.
Needle Cannon: 2.5/10. No. Gets some points for being good against the MM2 bosses.
Rush Coil: 3/10. Saves charges on Rush Jet yo.
Rush Jet: 10/10. lulz. Even hits 'weakness' on a boss!
Rush Marine: 3/10. See Rush Jet.
Search Snake: 0.5/10. "It's not Hyper Bomb" is basically the only thing it has going for it.
Shadow Blade: 6/10. Good on the space stage and against bee droppers.
Spark Shock: 2/10. Okay, this weapon, in its intended purpose, is like Ice Slasher but way worse (they can be marginally useful for hoppers if you don't have Hard). It is, however, very fast and good at killing bosses that are weak to it! Like Spark Man, whoever it actually hits weakness on and the two MM2 bosses. So it gets some points for boss killing.
Top Spin: 4/10. Really requires too much knowledge of the enemies to utilize effectively. I just don't like using it even if it is objectively useful.
-
Dragon Warrior/Quest 4:
Solo/Sofia: 7.66
Ragnar: 4.99
Healie: 4.60
Alena: 8.33
Cristo/Kyril: 6.75
Brey/Borya: 4.98
Torneko Taloon: 2.54
Mara/Maya: 4.08
Nara/Meena: 3.64
Orin/Oojam: N/A
Doran/Sparkie: 2.40
SaGa Frontier Monsters:
Cotton: 3.20
King Sei: 4.80
Kylin: 6.00
Red Turnip: 0.80
Slime: 0.80
Suzaku: 1.80
Thunder: 5.00
Best Rating of this session: Alena w/ 8.33
Worst Rating of this session: Red Turnip and Slime w/ 0.80
BONUS ROUND - RATE THAT WEAPON:
Mega Man 3:
Gemini Laser: 5.40
Hard Knuckle: 5.20
Magnet Missile: 6.50
Mega Buster: 5.20
Needle Cannon: 2.50
Rush Coil: N/A
Rush Jet: 9.50
Rush Marine: 4.60
Search Snake: 2.40
Shadow Blade: 6.90
Spark Shock: 2.10
Top Spin: 5.50
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
15. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
16. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
17. Tana (FE8) 8.73
18. Purim (SoM) 8.70
19. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
20. Asellus (SaGa) 8.67
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
17. Squid (FFT) 1.25
18t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
18t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
20. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
Again, I can't emphasize this enough...
DO NOT RANK (DNR) AND ABSTAIN ARE NOT THE SAME THING. If you aren't rating someone for an "I don't know" reason, that's an "Abstain" (or some non-rating in general like "who?" "uhh..." etc.) "DNR" is only if you THINK THE CHARACTER IN QUESTION SHOULD NOT BE RATED. There's a difference in how I count the two up, and I can't express this enough, especially for sessions with low rating totals. Please, try not to confuse the two, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!!
...and moving on...
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter:
Ryu:
Bosch:
Nina:
Lin:
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford:
Locke Cole:
Mog:
Edgar Roni Figaro:
Sabin Rene Figaro:
Banon:
Shadow:
Cyan Garamonde:
Gau:
Celes Chere:
Setzer Gambianni:
Strago Magus:
Relm Arrowny:
Umaro:
Gogo:
...yes, yes I did technically skip BoF4, but then, the game is not technically numbered (in the US) so it might as well be a spin off! <_< >_>
-
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 6/10. Terra's useful early on and then Espers make magic everyone's game. Morph isn't bad, but it's situational and less useful than many other commands.
Locke Cole: 6/10. Stealing and decent physicals do okay for him, though he loses points for the WoR.
Mog: 2/10. 2 points for the Moogle Charm.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8.5/10. Tools are consistently useful and he has a decent stat spread. Good equips, too.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 6/10. I've never been a huge fan of Blitz so he loses a little bit.
Banon: 5/10. Healing station.
Shadow: 8/10. Darts are good, he's fast and has a few other tricks. Sort of falls into the same bracket as Edgar: Good unique command and can do other things well enough.
Cyan Garamonde: 2/10. Slow, crappy skillset and bad magic.
Gau: 1/10. Horrible luck based skillset that encourages camping out on the Veldt to get every and any obscure Rage. It's Rafa and Malak syndrome all over again, experts think he's awesome because they can wrench 20 different obscure tricks out of him.
Celes Chere: 5/10 Terra with a crappier spell set and unique command.
Setzer Gambianni: 7/10. Fixed dice, magic, odds and ends.
Strago Magus: 2/10. Late joiner and his skillset is a pain in the ass to get.
Relm Arrowny: 2/10. Bad command and a late joiner.
Umaro: 1/10. Hulk if Hulk really sucked.
Gogo: 7/10. Despite horrible stats, Gogo is generally useful due to pure versatility.
-
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter: Didn't beat this, but general impressions from what I did play... discount if beating is a req.
Ryu: 8 - Looks broken.
Bosch: 6 - okay temp
Nina: 7 - MT Damage~
Lin: 6 - Ranged attacking!
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8.5 - Ends up cast-best endgame (and a good portion of mid-late-game), but has a slow start and some availability issues. Never bad, but apart from healing, she's not great at the beginning and her equips don't help. But once she gets Morph, it's all about the SMASH.
Locke Cole: 6.5 - Bad to Average throughout most of the game, but dedicated Stealing on an Average character is pretty useful.
Mog: 8 - Some availability issues, and Dance is obsolete by WoR. Snow Muffler and Dragoon setup means he can keep up with the damage/durability curve, but mostly I'm throwing all these points at him for Moogle Charm. Probably just a 7 without that.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8 - Solid out of the gate, though mellows out quickly as a damage dealer. Still, since Terra and Locke have slow starts, this really helps early on. And then there's Noiseblaster. And ITD Tools have their uses even lategame. Dragoon setup and good equip options keeps him a great option at the endgame.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 7 - Terrible endgame option, but his availability and well-timed skills make him worth using earlier on. When there are lots of fire-weak enemies, Fire Dance is there. And being your 2nd available PC in the brutal WoR opening is certainly welcome. Just... terrible equips for lategame.
Banon: 2 - He heals! And with his durability, he needs it!
Shadow: 7 - Honestly, I've never been a fan of Shadow, but his unique options are worth using... if only he was available more often before the Magic skillset obsoletes most of them. Throw is good for bosses, though. And he's an option for stealing if you don't have Locke or Gogo.
Cyan Garamonde: 2 - lolno. Active liability with a terrible unique skill and generally terrible equips (except for Tempest, which is just okay w/ Offering?)
Gau: 8 - Broken unique skillset, but a pain to get, and the nature of collecting his skills means more time-consuming than most PCs and possibly less availability. Also, somewhat uncontrollable/unreliable.
Celes Chere: 8.5 - Terra with a better start, and Runic spoils a few things, but loses out to Morph in the end. About equal availability, I'd guess?
Setzer Gabianni: 7 - Lower availability when his Slots would have been helpful. And then riding entirely on Fixed Dice in the lategame. A good option, but not broken.
Strago Magus: 5 - He's certainly usable, but his equip set and overly-situational skillset puts him at a disadvantage to the other lategame PCs. And he's a late joiner...
Relm Arrowny: 5 - Same issues as Strago, really.
Umaro: 2 - lol why are you using Umaro? I suppose he could have been useful if he had joined in the WoB? At least he's a good tank... maybe he just needs a TrueKnight accessory to play a good defense game?
Gogo: 8 - Crappy overall, but so much utility if you get him ASAP in the WoR. Particularly for Stealing equips... and Rage/Lore/Blitz/Throw if you've been collecting those.
-
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 9/10. Best equipment, second best magic, and a really good ability. Sorta does everything, another person I sorta think of as archetypical for what I give a 9 to.
Locke Cole: 3/10. He has his moments (Valiant Knife is a decent weapon) but overall is not very good.
Mog: 6/10. Unfortunately, Jump and tanking are kinda contradictory roles, but he also has a good patch in the WoB, and his magic score doesn't fail, so you can probably find a use for him.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8/10. Noiseblaster. All the other Tools I can take or leave, but Noiseblaster is just nuts. And later on he can do what Mog does.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 6/10. Tends to have decent damage options even if I dislike the lack of control.
Banon: DNR.
Shadow: 6/10. Kinda like Sabin, really. Throw is notably weaker and more expensive than Bum Rush, but you can target it. This would probably be a losing trade, but on the other hand skeans are really good on the FC. Dog is worth something, though not as much as it could be (since you can Rippler it to other people! Also not having it for the FC).
Cyan Garamonde: 2/10. No. I mean he's -usable- but... clearly worse than everyone else who isn't Umaro.
Gau: 7/10. All sorts of ways he breaks the game (Nightshade is of course the most egregious). Some of them are annoying to get which keeps him from a really high score though.
Celes Chere: 8/10. Like Terra, that early healing into great magic and equips. Runic is rarely useful but very useful when it is, at least.
Setzer Gambianni: 6.5/10. This is probably Eviltype speaking but man Offering/Fixed Dice(/Berserk) is so good late. Even before Offering he can manage (Slots is solid enough NE damage).
Strago Magus: 3.5/10. Not much reason to use him. Big Guard is good at least, though is devalued if you have many Marvel Shoes.
Relm Arrowny: 6.5/10. Game-best magic. Takes some time to get going though and Sketch is useful approximately once.
Umaro: 2/10. Fanatics' Tower saves him from a 1.
Gogo: 5.5/10. Workable. Depends exactly what your situation is with magic. Stats/equipment is pretty fail though, and gets even worse if you've been managing espers (which granted, I usually don't bother with).
Apathetic on BoF5.
-
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter:
Ryu: 5/10
Bosch: DNR
Nina: 5/10
Lin: 5/10
Whatever, they are all vaguely useful.
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 9/10. High magic, good equips, Morph is cool.
Locke Cole: 2/10. looool Locke
Mog: 5/10. Two points for the Moogle Charm =)
Edgar Roni Figaro: 9/10. Destroys the earlygame with his mad skillz, Auto-Crossbow, Noisblaster, Chainsaw is ballin', etc.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 5/10. Not good at Blitzes!
Banon: DNR.
Shadow: DNR/Abstain/whatever
Cyan Garamonde: 1/10. no
Gau: 2.5/10. Yo dawg I herd you like FAQing so I put some massive FAQbait in your game so you could FAQ while you game. High magic at least?
Celes Chere: 8/10. Kinda like Terra lite I guess.
Setzer Gambianni: 4/10. I'm not really sure, I guess. I used him because he's sexy but I didn't think he was very good.
Strago Magus: 2/10
Relm Arrowny: 7/10. High magic and has rods which I think can boost magic or some shit?
Umaro: 0/10. No way.
Gogo: 6/10. His existence makes me happy, means I can fill out my party.
-
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10. Healing early, great equips late, around for a long time to help pump Magic with Espers.
Locke Cole: 3/10. Steal doesn't actually get you anything that good, and Fight / Capture damage is LOL (unless you do Valiant Knife / Offering nonsense but that barely counts). He's around a lot at least to pump his Mag stat way high? (To be clear, I usually use plenty of Locke anyway because hey it's FF6.)
Mog: 3/10. Dance is cute, and infinite healing did save me occasionally on my first playthrough, but it's better just to teach everyone Cure2 and Osmose.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 9/10. Tools are broken. By the time Tools lags on damage, you could have pumped his Mag stat high anyway, and he gets nice equips like Enhancer, so whatever.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 8/10. Quite strong in the early game when MT isn't common. Bum Rush is crazy late. Eviltype also colors me here, Defense is a lot higher and Bum Rush still ignores Defense, so it's an easy consistent 9999 damage.
Banon: DNR
Shadow: 5/10. Meh. Not a fan of using consumables, so that leaves Fight hype. I'll grant he can still do some broken things but I usually never bothered with repeatedly scrolling through my inventory.
Cyan Garamonde: 3/10. Definitely usable with FF6's wonky turn system, Quadra Slash doesn't really cost any time if you enter everyone else's commands first... just... the damage does not keep up. You can take Cyan to the Magitech facility and be fine, but by WoR he's trash.
Gau: 2/10. Not fun at all. I like to play FF6, not let the AI do it for me. And if I did want to let the AI do it for me, Umaro at least doesn't require 3 hours of parasitically wasting your time on the Veldt while other team members get nothing. 2 points strictly to acknowledge that you can do broken things if you bother to research elemental resistances and the like.
Celes Chere: 8/10. See Terra, with Runic being more situational but potentially fight-breaking.
Setzer Gambianni: 5/10. Yeah, Slots is fine early, and Fixed Dice is cool late.
Strago Magus: 4/10. Building Lores is easier than Rages at least. Problem is that vanilla Magic is so busted in FF6 that you don't really need an alternate set of magic.
Relm Arrowny: 5/10. Highest Magic stat with a giant asterisk, since that merely means Relm keeps up with Celes / Terra if you were abusing Mag+ Espers. And her equipment options aren't quite as good as Celes / Terra. Still, FF6 magic kinda breaks the game still, so.
Umaro: 2/10. Fanatic's Tower.
Gogo: 7/10. Hey a mage who knows all your spells and has Tools! Shame about the low Mag power but still pretty awesome.
-
Terra Branford: 7/10. She does the magic thing but I could never care about Morph and Espers do your legwork anyway. Still obviously good.
Locke Cole: 5/10. Could be worse. I can control him, he can learn magic and Steal is better than SOME skillsets.
Mog: 6/10. Yes I like Moogle Charm that much.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 9/10. Tools are awesome to an FF6 scrub.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 7/10. Rode on Fire Dance for a good long time.
Banon: Pass.
Shadow: 7/10. Straightforward, solid, didn't use him much though.
Cyan Garamonde: 1/10. Wow you suck.
Gau: 1/10. Quoting Dune: Horrible luck based skillset that encourages camping out on the Veldt to get every and any obscure Rage. It's Rafa and Malak syndrome all over again, experts think he's awesome because they can wrench 20 different obscure tricks out of him.
Celes Chere: 4/10 I found it hard to care about Runic, her base spells are totally whatever (you're drowning in Espers), and she's just worse than Terra.
Setzer Gambianni: 6/10. Mostly for Offering+Fixed Dice.
Strago Magus: 3/10. Better than Cyan and Gau. Hard to care about Lore with Espers.
Relm Arrowny: 2/10. Better than Cyan and Gau.
Umaro: 1/10. Hulk if Hulk really sucked.
Gogo: 8/10. Yeah I really liked Gogo, stats blah blah he can use three skillsets.
-
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: Seems a fairly no-brainerish 9/10. Gets to benefit from the lion's share of FF6's sillier equipment options, 2nd-best natural magic score, Morph for boss defenestration, earlygame healing when your sole other means is the mighty TONIC... yeah.
Locke Cole: Yeah no, stealing in FF6 is borderline horseshit and oh hi nothing but basic physicals for a sizable chunk of the game. He does get some equips that salvage him and non-Umaro FF6 PC is only so bad objectively but ugh. 3.5/10.
Mog: Moogle Charm is worth points I guess. 5/10.
Edgar Roni Figaro: Noiseblaster smash puny earlygame. Other tools have their uses (Flash springs to mind for the Magitek Factory) but otherwise they're largely a wash. Good equip options too, for the most part. 9/10.
Sabin Rene Figaro: Lack of controlled targetting kinda sucks in some cases, but Blitz is good otherwise. Lack of good equips late though. 6.5/10.
Banon: Abstain
Shadow: Throw's alright but he's not got much else. 5/10.
Cyan Garamonde: FF6 non-Umaro PC is only so bad objectively but Cyan is that bad. Edit: thinking on it, bumping him down to a 2.5/10. Still only so bad but on thinking on it the general everything costs him a half-point.
Gau: Objectively useable! Too bad about using him being an obnoxious pain in the ass and FAQ bait. Edit: bumping him up to a 3.5/10. Has some stuff outside of rages and at least the better early game rages aren't horrendously obnoxious.
Celes Chere: Terra-lite. 8/10.
Setzer Gambianni: Has some good tricks. 6/10.
Strago Magus: Lores are just plain overshadowed. 4/10.
Relm Arrowny: Game-best base magic is worth something. 5/10.
Umaro: Fanatic's Tower isn't worth points to me. 1/10.
Gogo: At least has versatility. 5/10.
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Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10. Equipment and Morph for some bosses. It works.
Locke Cole: 4/10. At least gets plenty of esper time.
Mog: 6/10. Moogle charm and tanking works. Never found the offense to be any good though.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 9/10. I think he's MVP, just too much unreal smashing in the WoB. He tapers off in the WoR, but he can be a support mage there at worst.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 6/10. Very solid for the WoB and early WoR.
Banon: DNR.
Shadow: 6/10. Loses points for bad WoB availability and some equipment woes.
Cyan Garamonde: 1.5/10. Awful.
Gau: 6/10. MVP if you bother to put the work in, but... man. rage hunting stinks.
Celes Chere: 7/10.
Setzer Gambianni: 7/10. Total WoR PC, but those fixed dice are that good.
Strago Magus: 1/10. Worse than Cyan, yes. Yay I join late and my best armor is something better PC's want and my skillset's unremarkable to useless *and* takes some work to put together! Go away.
Relm Arrowny: 2.5/10. Couple of points for high magic, but she even loses some of that edge due to the way esper gains work in 6. Not a game where I like project characters.
Umaro: 0.5/10. Also awful.
Gogo: 7/10.
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Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10 - Does the most important skill set well, best options in general
Locke Cole: 6/10 - Same as the girls with worse equipment pretty much
Mog: 5/10 - Tanking/Moogle Charm are great but not necessary
Edgar Roni Figaro: 9/10 - Nearly always a great option; even on the FC NoiseBlaster is useful for WireyDragons
Sabin Rene Figaro: 7/10 - Bum Rush the show
Banon: DNR
Shadow: 7/10 - Never there but when he is he can fight with the best
Cyan Garamonde: 1/10 - No reason to use him ever
Gau: 6/10 - Only needs a couple of his good Rages to be useful, so it doesn't bother me
Celes Chere: 8/10 - Terra lite is still Terra
Setzer Gambianni: 6/10 - Under par until Fixed Dice, then he's incredible
Strago Magus: 4/10 - Probably sounded better on paper
Relm Arrowny: 6/10 - High Magic stat saves her from obscurity
Umaro: 1/10 - haha
Gogo: 6/10 - Being able to do anything saves it from obscurity
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Terra Branford: 8.0/10 - Shaky start, great finish.
Locke Cole: 4.0/10 - Shaky forever. Still a FF6 PC.
Mog: 5.0/10 - WoB Mog is solid, WoR Mog is filler. Tanky filler! But still filler.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8.0/10 - Starts out at #1 and never actually becomes bad.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 7.0/10 - One-dimensional, but it's a mighty fine dimension.
Banon: Abstain.
Shadow: 5.5/10. In theory he's good, but he misses out on a lot of availability and thus spells/Magic.
Cyan Garamonde: 3.5/10. FF6 PCs can only get so bad.
Gau: 4.0/10. You really need to go out of your way to make Gau great. I don't think I respect that.
Celes Chere: 7.5/10. Terra without Morph.
Setzer Gambianni (Gabbiani, actually): 4.0/10. 7-Flush and Chocobop are good on paper, but the dungeons Setzer's around for simply don't let them shine.
Strago Magus: 6.0/10. Aqua Rake, Aero, and GrandTrain allow Strago to perform competently while your other mages are still squabbling over Espers.
Relm Arrowny: 5.5/10 Squabbles over Espers. Beats Strago after she's had 'em, though.
Umaro: 2.0/10. Worst PC for a multitude of reasons, but he's still in FF6.
Gogo: 5.0/10. Stats are trash, skillset(s) are great, I guess this works.
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Oh yay, Meeple remembered to post FF6 cast for rankings before I forgot all about it and had to go with long term memory.
Terra Branford: 9/10 - Archetypical 9 for me as well. Great equips, good ability, and tends to be a valued member at every section of the game with plenty of esper time. A nod towards her start being weaker though. Still not enough to knock her down another rank.
Locke Cole: 3/10 - Pretty bad on the WoB. Serviceable in the WoR due to better weaponry, equips and spell choices at that point.
Mog: 7/10 - Based on how I play FF6, Mog gets like an extra +2 points alone due to one thing: Moogle Charm. It saves so much time it's not funny. Then of course, Mog is never terrible and he can serve as an uber tank mage at worst. Still, the offense can be better.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 9/10 - Dominates WoB something fierce. Noiseblaster is like ten kinds of stupid. WoR runs along and Edgar isn't as great, but he also doesn't lose much steam. There's a good reason why he's part of the big three.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 6/10 - Damage. That's all he has. Thankfully, he's good at it. Just that other characters can also fill in and do other stuff, which dilutes Sabin's worth.
Banon: DNR.
Shadow: 6.5/10 - Shadow is weird. I think MM hit it pretty dead on though. In theory he's probably the 4th or 5th best PC, due to throwable MT stuff, good damage, some utility skeans and Interceptor. Just he's hardly ever available so he gets crushed on Esper time (very bad due to how FF6 esper gains work). Throw's cost is also a bit of deterrent early, but tends to mitigate itself later in the game due to more powerful equips.
Cyan Garamonde: 2/10 - Garbage. The bases are terrible, equips are equally umimpressive and needing to bring Cyan out of "Why" territory is just too much effort.
Gau: 5/10 - Similar to Shadow in the sense, in theory, he's probably a high tier PC. Just you need to a) know your rages and b) spend time getting them. The good news for Gau is that some of the good rages are pretty early (like Stray Cat). Mashing it altogether...he's probably around here.
Celes Chere: 8.5/10. - Terra without Morph is actually a pretty good descriptor >_>. Not that that's a bad thing
Setzer Gambianni: 7/10 - Well okay. Ignore Joker Doom because if you can consistently get it and cheat the Slots system, you don't need anyone else >_>. Sezter is still kinda of silly though in the WoR. Of course, how good he is correlates directly to how early you grab the Fixed Dice and Offering combo for him. But once he has it, he can effectively one round a ton of bosses. His other slot skills and his WoB performance aren't too bad either, although nothing stellar.
Strago Magus: 4/10 - I have mixed feelings on Strago. Lores are great on paper and he can hit elements few people do. However, you never actually need those, which really sucks for him. Also, horrible esper time.
Relm Arrowny: 5/10 - Game best Mag score. This is actually worth something because if you are willing to consider putting time into raising one of the more project-ish characters, Relm is actually relatively painless; all you need to give her are decent espers instead of monster hunting or Veldt grinding. Still, for a project character, the thing she needs (Esper time) is something she hardly ever gets, which drops her to average at best.
Umaro: 1/10 - No. Well fanatics tower I guess. I just run it with the Moogle Charm so who cares
Gogo: 5/10 - Skillset variety of hell. Worse than Garbage bases. I guess if you're never sure which characters to bring, you stuff Gogo in. I just usually bring who I want though and that's that >_>.
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Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10. The magics! No ability till WoR and even then it's not something you can use every fight, but a good boss nuker. She would be 9 but just starts so-so.
Locke Cole: 7/10. Almost as high as Terra?! Well... if you think of Locke as "flat out give up a character slot during fights in exchange for itemz getz", that's not really that bad considering how easy the game is. Add on sometimes decent damage to that, good availability in WoB meaning good magic when the game is hard (and FF6 magic bringing everyone who can use it to at least around 5/10), and I'm down with that.
Mog: 6/10. Magic is a better skillset than dance, plus low availability, equals 5, +1 point for Moogle Charm credit.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8.5/10. Tools is usually better than Magic, plus very high availability. Always a great choice, often the best IMO.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 8/10. Also always a top choice. Had him at 9 too originally but yeah Blitz is not that versatile and sometimes fails. (If you suck, yes, but it will happen now and then and failing ever < failing never.)
Banon: DNR.
Shadow: 6/10. See Mog, except with "Throw is sometimes good" rather than Moogle Charm.
Cyan Garamonde: 7/10. More available than many, therefore better magic, and Quad Slam is a good free way to finish off randoms after your first three chars soften them.
Gau: 4.5/10. Least useful character without expending much more effort than anyone else and FAQing. Can't even unRage to use magic if things are going south. Sure he can break the game, but you know what, so can Psycho Cyan and Joker Doom and you don't have to grind the Veldt to set those up.
Celes Chere: 6/10. Terra without Morph, with meh-er natural magic. Eh. Though she's the WoR lead, she leaves during that crucial time in WoB where you've just gotten good espers for everybody else, and since I've never found much/any use for Runic past Narshe Kefka she gets progressively worse as a choice in WoR as better PCs and magic equalization on everyone else rolls in.
Setzer Gambianni: 6.5/10 and don't misspell his name dangit. Subjectively I love using him but objectively he wastes a lot of turns. +.5 for Fixed Dice but those are last dungeon only. I think they do put him over Celes though.
Strago Magus: 6/10. Like the other middling folks his skillset is Magic and.... slightly different Magic. Joins late but not needing to grind espers as much helps.
Relm Arrowny: 5/10. Her skillset is Magic and her stats just don't seem to make a difference in practice. Also low availability and nothing to help her esper grind.
Umaro: 5/10. His skillset isn't Magic and his potential is low. But you know what, this is in game use and he doesn't waste menu time, fail blitzes or pull Lagomorphs, he just outputs all right physical damage with no fuss and no effort required. Low availability but doesn't need espers so I'm not gonna dock him points for that. Better than Gau? ... honestly, yeah, for my in game use.
Gogo: 8/10. Does whatever you want and doesn't need espers or setup. Lower stats but higher versatility than whatever party member you're pulling out for him.
Yeah, Edgar/Sabin/Terra/Gogo is who I'd take as Team Go Time, Locke and Cyan a bit behind them for general purpose use and then "anyone but Gau".
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Alex:
Post-espers, Cyan is available for literally one dungeon that Celes isn't (Sealed Cave, and is probably the worst PC there) while Celes has three that Cyan doesn't (WoR Figaro, Daryl's Tomb, Mt. Zozo) and that assumes a beeline for Cyan in the WoR and ignores all the map trekking and the collapsing house in Tzen. Yet Cyan is the one hyped for availability, and manages a better score than Celes despite the fact she has a whopping +22 magic power on him and better equipment in general? Wha?
General comments:
I also find Gogo hype a bit confusing. By the time he shows up, as we all know, Magic is dominating. Gogo's ability to set other skillsets doesn't seem that amazing to me. The biggest use I find for Gogo is "Second PC to use Rage" (Quake rage + Gaia Gear = death to early-mid WoR)... but given that his high scores seem to coincide almost perfectly with Gau's low scores, I assume that can't be the reason. What are we hyping him for here, exactly? WoR Tools? Bum Rush I guess... He does have a decent magic skillset with no effort (since he has what his party members have) but his magic is bad (tending into awful if you do lots of esper micromanagement like Snowfire) and his durability is atrocious (best armour has def in the 60's and only 10 MBlock). I can see giving him a decent score for versatility but him being one of the better PCs just strikes me as wrong.
As for Gau... I will first say that I'm totally cool with the sentiments that say "fuck grinding rages, so Gau is bad". That's legit, taking time out to do optional things -is- a negative and how much Gau makes up for this depends on a pre-existing knowledge of what rages are good (and I'm fine with not assuming that knowledge). Thaaaat said, it's important not to go too far with this. Gau has decent armour (Snow Muffler) and magic stat, so even a Gau player who ignores Rages should find him more useful than Cyan. The gap only widens if you try out minimal rages... e.g. on my first playthrough I can't say I discovered anything that made Gau broken but I did discover Stray Cat and at least one rage that cast Level 2 spells, both of which make Rage much better than Sword Tech/Steal, for instance. So yeah, low Gau scores are fine, but lower than Cyan feels like a stretch - both have shitty skillsets (assuming Gau disrespect) but one has better magic and equipment.
Usual comment also needs to be said that FF6 steal is awful and nets virtually nothing of value besides cash (which only really matters if you want to finance heavy-duty throws for Shadow), and just using it slows battles down (time that could be better spent on the Veldt! Or just getting on with the game).
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Snow Muffler is basically another exercise in massive patience or mass FAQbait depending on your playstyle, so if you hate grinding Rages and don't FAQ them...
I am still going to say wtf to those who rated Gau below Cyan. Cyan has worse Magic if you make them both magic monkeys. and Swordtech is barely better than Rage at its base. So ~ At least Locke has an argument with STEALING and Valiant Knife, even if I don't really agree with those. I'm not even sure what Cyan does better!
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If I'm playing seriously, I want to use neither Gau nor Cyan (but yes if I did then Gau is a better magic monkey option). If I'm casually killing scrubs, then Cyan is two button presses to do okay damage. Gau requires scrolling through options and there's a 50% chance he'll waste a turn on a useless physical. Plus, pre-Espers, I'd definitely rather use Cyan than Gau for Narshe / Zozo. Same reason, consistent damage, no need to worry about say elemental fail on attack choice or something stupid like that.
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Oh come on. There isn't a single enemy from Narshe to Zozo that so much as halves ANY of fire/ice/lightning. In fact the first one I could find is Rhinox who exists for like one screen at the very end of the Magitek Factory.
And choosing a random Rage will probably yield comparable results to "spam Dispatch" (those "useless physicals" of his don't deal much less damage than Dispatch!) on average. If you find even one of the "good" rages from the initial batch of (I can name at least 10 that have L2 elemental damage or better), then Rage pulls way ahead and makes Gau easily one of the choices for that arc (beating out Locke and Cyan ain't hard work). But if you don't? Yeah, both Cyan and Gau suck and you shouldn't use either (I'd go with Locke for targettability as my fourth). And then you get the entire rest of the game where magic exists and thus Gau is better, even if it's a matter of being the #12 PC to Cyan's #13.
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You have to use 12 people at some point bro unless you hate yourself and abuse Moogle Charm in the final dungeon and do a bunch of crap to redo it and shit~ (In other news, I hate myself.)
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Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter:
Ryu: 9/10. lolsmash.
Bosch: DNR
Nina: 7/10. Traps are good, healing is nice.
Lin: 3/10. Sat back, didn't do much.
meh in general at BoFV, though.
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10. Solid enough. Not game-breaking in any way, but probably game-best on the average first playthrough.
Locke Cole: 2/10. As much as I like Locke, he really doesn't do much of anything worthwhile. This is pretty much 3 points for availability, although -1 for being stupidly obscure in WoR.
Mog: 5/10. 4 for Moogle Charm. (Yes it's that good in my opinion. >_>)
Edgar Roni Figaro: 7/10. Just like Terra is solid in late-game, Edgar is damn good in the early-game. Would probably be a 6, but he doesn't drop off completely - still manages to hold his own quite well in WoR.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 8/10. As above, but worse at crowd control, better at bosses and WoR.
Banon: DNR.
Shadow: 5/10. Yeah, I think it's been covered. Good theoretically, not so much practically.
Cyan Garamonde: 2/10. lolcyan.
Gau: 8/10. On the average first playthrough, he's kinda decent, I guess. Seems like a lot of effort, but usually copes well enough with minimal effort and not even so much as an extra visit to the Veldt. A playthrough with more knowledge? Gg. Some of the Rages are utterly ridiculous.
Celes Chere: 6/10. Runic kinda sucks, but her magic is good and her availability is obviously good in lategame, at least.
Setzer Gambianni: 2/10. Slots is bad, his stats aren't great... No reason to use him ever, really.
Strago Magus: 2/10. Ugh. FAQbait skillset that isn't even that great once you've got it, and a very late joiner. Dammit Strago.
Relm Arrowny: 4/10. Late, bad skillset, but good magic. 4 points purely for being ridiculous if you know what you're doing with her, I guess.
Umaro: 1/10. even more lol than cyan.
Gogo: 6/10. I like the variety on the skillset, instantly having everyone else's skills is nice (no grind!) and he's obviously got a lot of options open to him. That said, he's pretty bad at all of them. =/
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Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter:
Ryu: 9. Renders party moot if you want to play that way. It... does require some abuse though, so docked point seems appropriate.
Bosch: 8/10. You really aren't getting through that section without Bosch carrying you.
Nina: 6/10. I recall at least that it got tricky setting up her traps after a point, which is where her money lies later on.
Lin: 4/10. Better than nothing, but definitely brings less to the table.
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10. Pretty much as good as an FFVI character can be. Her skills ENHANCE magic supremacy!
Locke Cole: 5/10. He gets most of the important equips, and has good WoB availability. So sure, average.
Mog: 8/10. Makes game playable, should always be used.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 7/10. He swaps from a 9 to about equal to Locke over time... so split the difference.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 7/10. Does his thing.
Banon: DNR. He'd not... rate highly otherwise, literal liability status.
Shadow: 5/10. Skillset stays viable after magic supremacy kicks in, but availability docks a point.
Cyan Garamonde: 3/10. You certainly could use him... but why?
Gau: 5/10.
Celes Chere: 6/10.
Setzer Gambianni: 5/10.
Strago Magus: 4/10.
Relm Arrowny: 4/10.
Umaro: 2/10.
Gogo: 4/10.
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Oh right BoF5. Getting almost no attention this week!
Ryu: DNR. I've given him a ranking before considering without considering Wyrm (where he's the LVP but not by much). Today I'm not sure how much credit if any to give him for operation gameplay skip. If he does get ranked... hm. 4 without Wyrm, 9 with (agree with the general comments that the limits on it make it not 10 material)... averaging out to 6.5. (Please use this if he's ranked, I assume he will be.)
Nina: Traps are pretty cool. She also has good non-trap damage against anything with a weakness. Frail though. 6
Lin: Okay, anyone who says traps stop working wasn't using Lin properly, since she's so good at pushing things into them! She's the less necessary part of the trap team (and for a while is quite bad -except- at this)... but then at endgame she gets Shatter and just takes over with the best damage by far. So 6 works here too.
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The main problem with Gau is that you can't use Rage then magic. While you can have Cyan use some physicals then heal then go back to physicals or something.
Gogo has not having to learn magic and mimic doublecast, but he joins too late
Ryu: 9/10
Nina: 4/10
Lin: 5/10
Terra: 7/10
Locke: 4/10
Mog: 3.5/10
Edgar: 9/10
Sabin: 7/10
Banon: 8/10
Cyan: 3/10
Gau: 3/10
Celes: 7/10
Setzer: 4/10
Strago: 4/10
Relm: 6/10 (Control fan)
Umaro: 2/10
Gogo: 4/10
Shadow: 4/10
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The main problem with Gau is that you can't use Rage then magic. While you can have Cyan use some physicals then heal then go back to physicals or something.
I fail to see why that's an issue though. Who actually uses FF6 physicals for a large part of the game other than like Locke and Setzer? Oh, you could just jam the attack button down, but you do that out of negligence only, which, I'm not giving credit for, cause I assume most people in this topic assume a shred of competence (which negligence most definitely is not), or alternatively, it implies the fight was so easy your actions didn't matter at all. Once you reach a certain point, MP becomes superfluous (other than the occasional turn it takes to cast Osmose), and FF6 basic physicals are just completely worthless for most of the game to the point where if you're using one, and its not the above mentioned exceptions, you may as well just have skipped the character's turn.
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The point is that Cyan/Locke/Setzer can go between their "somehow better than Magic" skillsets/physicals and Magic for when they need to take charge of healing. With Gau, you're forced to have someone else on heal duty, since Gau's locked into Rage.
...Not that I really see that as an argument against him, since Gau being locked into a relevant Rage usually means the battle's basically over. >.>
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Well for Relm if it's fair to assume pre-existing knowledge/replays for other characters isn't it fair to assume the same for her too? =/ For example low level games and such to maximise Esper use time/stat boosts later. Under such scenerios she might not lose her natural stat edge/lose out to Celes/Terra so much :) Morped Terra will always be better of course but Relm might still win out more over Cyan/Locke/Umaro/Gogo/Sabin/Strago and perhaps some others I'm not sure on - Mog/Shadow/pre Fixed Dice Setzer? Celes is probably still better because of Minvera/physical options but eh. Terra and Edgar are in a class of their own and Gau has the brokeness still :)
I am not going to overhype/rank Relm too high based on this personally but perhaps it is something to take in account a little bit~
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory is that Relm misses most of the big name endgame equips. So she's less flexible than Terra/Celes and the early joiners (Locke/Edgar). Since her innate skillset is a non-factor, it's the value of "can be given awesome equips" versus "requires less esper abuse for stats" and on the whole I don't think her edge in the stat makes it up. She's perfectly competent if you do use her, but offers no real advantages over some of the other characters either. Gogo felt fairly similar, trading instant skillset for also needing some stat pumping, while Strago is generally weaker but his skillset brings a trick or two to the table. So yeah, all perfectly usable, but in a high-customization game like FFVI I usually inflate smaller differences a little to give things at least a little bit of a usefulness curve.
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Esper stat boost management definitely goes into over micromanagement territory hardcore. Requiring people to make the game harder to maximize stat growth should not be counted! The point is to play through the game efficiently. Relm is a fine PC IMO but she joins rather late and has less time to pick from the Esper pool.
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Relm's fine on equipment for the most part. Cathood is good, Behemoth Suit is a passable ultimate armor, and Magus Rod is great. Her issue, of course, is that she misses out most of the WoB, which leads to her being underdeveloped in the WoR when she joins, unless you bring her to Floating Continent, but that's one of the harder dungeons in the game, and to bring someone who relies on Magic with minimal Esper time to THAT dungeon is pretty much counter-productive.
When caught up, which doesn't take TOO long, she's a rather good PC, but there's the whole stuff beforehand which holds her back. Competing with Terra/Celes rather directly, who both are overall better to boot, doesn't do her any favors, so most just take this perspective of "why bother raising her when I can just use the other girls?"
So yeah, I wouldn't say her equipment is the problem...quite the reverse, her equipment is fine (WoB, she gets Mystery Veil + White Dress, WoR, I covered), its the whole "Mage with minimal Esper Time" thing that holds her back. And no, Natural Magic is not what makes Terra/Celes different; by the point Relm joins, Natural Magic has become mostly superfluous. Its that Terra has the Sealed Gate, Burning House and first part of Esper Mountain (and potentially, Owzer's House) to learn all these spells, and Celes has the early WoR (Magitek Factory spells aren't worth a whole lot, outside of potential Bolt 2 there) to play catch up. Relm never really has any moments like these, so she's at an innate disadvantage.
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Yeah, Relm is still pretty good (and certain playstyles can make her better of course; if you decide to grind in Maranda desert [which is pretty fast even if I frown on it] you can catch her up on magic quite quickly). She does tend to end up with the highest magic in my experience (although probably wouldn't for Snowfire-level esper micromanagement) and her equipment is good if not Terra/Celes good. Additionally, because FF6 has a strong, strong incentive to use at least 8 PCs, she'll never get "crowded out" by Terra/Celes; she only needs to beat 2-6 other PCs to get a spot on the team.
A combination of ignoring esper micromanagement and a little Maranda grinding would probably leave Relm as like the fourth or fifth best PC even, so I can potentially see where CT is coming from there even if she's a spot or two lower for me.
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Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8/10. Doesn't quite feel like a 9, but she's really close. It's Terra, this doesn't need explaining.
Locke Cole: 3/10. Decent slugger for some parts, I guess? Has some good setups. Would be a 4, but loses a point for his recruitment in the WoR being a pain.
Mog: 7/10. I like dance, I like tanks, and moogle charm is great.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8/10. WoB MVP, loses some of that in the WoR but comparible rating to Terra feels fair.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 7/10. Blitzes are not hard for me, Fire Dance owns for a good stretch where you have piss all for good MT otherwise and Bum Rush, even if untargettable, has enough damage that I don't care.
Banon: DNR
Shadow: 5/10. Throw is nice. Availability is not. Loses a point for the fake availability around the Zozo arc just because that kind of thing pisses me off.
Cyan Garamonde: 2/10. Only so bad an FF6 PC can be.
Gau: 7/10. Man even minimal messing around with Rages with no FAQ or anything yeilds results. If the entire concept offends you and you don't want to bother then fine, but figuring out strong, if not nessesarily the strongest, rage options for him is not difficult. If I was going to dock him points for anything it would be that I don't like using him and Mog on the same team and I am a Mog fanboy. <_<
Celes Chere: 7/10. Terra minus.
Setzer Gambianni: 5/10. Never got into his fixed dixe offering whatever setups, horrible at slots. Still decent enough.
Strago Magus: 6/10. I like blue magic, even if he's not all that great otherwise.
Relm Arrowny: 6/10. Control fan~
Umaro: 2/10. Would be 1/10 but I forgot fanatics tower. Gets a point back for that, sure.
Gogo: 8/10. Does whoevers job you want him to do, does it well enough that the stats don't really matter.
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Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter:
Ryu: 5/10. Tank and does good damage against bosses if you know how. Lacks variety though and the moves that are neat like stat downs aren't reliable enough.
Bosch: DNR. Not inclined to give credit for a one dungeon Jeigan.
Nina: 7/10. Does what she does well, though is a liability on durability and if you're surrounded or hit with big AoE damage, can run into issues
Lin: 7/10. Ranged damage and hits lots of enemies at once, and...yeah.
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 9/10. MVP overall. Adequate Offense and your main healer during the early parts, and that's her worst. Once she rejoins, she's basically game best PC from then on in due to high magic power, and Morph decimating bosses. Not to mention, godlike equips (hence her Magic Power is never caught up to sans other females)
Locke Cole: 4/10. Decent in the WoR, horrid in the WoB, saved only by his forced usage giving him a lot of Spells, making him a make-shift mage or something for the FC.
Mog: 6.5/10. Half a point for Moogle Charm. Smashes the WoB when he first joins, a tankish Mage or a Dragoon (the latter clashes with tanking) in the WoR.
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8/10. being rated higher than Terra doesn't make sense to me...at all. He's worse than her for a majority of the game, and even when its "Edgar Smash!' there are things she does he doesn't (Healing, better ST offense, etc.) Also worth noting that he's smashing the EASIEST PART OF THE GAME, and its only HALF the WoB he takes care of (he drops off in greatness a lot in the Sealed Gate, and is very clearly straight up inferior to many character in the Floating Continent.) THAT SAID, he's still a very strong PC overall.
Sabin Rene Figaro: 6/10. Steady offense the entire game, though leaves something to be desired defensively.
Banon: DNR
Shadow: 5/10. On paper, he should be a better sabin, but lack of availability holds him back.
Cyan Garamonde: 2/10. He's passable until and including the Magitek Factory (if game worst PC there)...then kind of just sucks and never gets good.
Gau: 6/10. He's got some broken stuff...if you bother to raise him. If you DON'T, he's still got Magic off a half decent Magic Power score and Snow Muffler, though this makes him "Mog-Lite." Given how much of a pain he is to raise, I'm not willing to credit him TOO much for potential, but his minimum value is far greater than Gau haters would have you think due to Magic.
Celes Chere: 8/10. Terra w/out Morph means she's notably worse against bosses in the WoR, and the lack of screen time WHEN IT COUNTS in the WoB means she falls way behind on the Floating Continent (easily the hardest dungeon to that point), which is one moment where Terra vs. Celes is ridiculously one sided. Other than that, yeah, Terra-.
Setzer Gambianni: 5/10. The WoB is so anti-Setzer its not even funny; Ings just make a mockery of 7 Flush, then its not good on the FC, and Chocobop can't hit most things. The WoR, however, he's notably better, more so than Locke, and around longer. Chocobop is good MT damage pre-Quake there, Fixed Dice can be gotten before Valiant Knife and generally better with offering than Valiant knife, etc. yeah, he's Locke+ all things considered
Strago Magus: 5/10. People are underrating him some. He can nab stuff like Aero pretty fast and do damage on par with level 3's out of the gate, and Aqua rake lets him be one of the better damage dealers in the WoB. That said...yeah, Lores aren't worth much.
Relm Arrowny: 6/10. She'd be higher if she didn't have to play huge catch-up. She's like Celes except lacks the early WoR time to catch up on Magic, and Cat Hood < Minerva. Strong offensive spell caster and damn good end game...but she requires getting actual spells to get there, and is nigh-worthless before that point. Just unlike Gau, actually hitting her potential is feasible with a dungeon or so of effort...albeit, her potential isn't anywhere near s well.
Umaro: 1/10. No. Personally, I don't think the he's actually good on Fanatics Tower, since you can do more with Magic, and he's doing ass-tactular damage 33% of the time with his basic physical, not to mention there's a lot of ways to status enemies out that Umaro cannot do that. That said, I think he's good for Phoenix Cave, since he resists most of the big damage there, has good defenses, and almost adequate offense!
Gogo: 6.5/10. Sabin with more tricks gotten later...yeah, I think I respect him more cause if I had to choose between Gogo and Sabin, I'd choose Gogo. Having by definition the best Magic Skillset in the current team is anice boon.
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*whips Meeple* It's been nearly two months since an update!
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*whips Meeple* It's been nearly two months since an update!
I'll get to it sometime this week (though not tommorrow)
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Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter:
Ryu: 7.03
Bosch: N/A
Nina: 6.00
Lin: 5.14
Final Fantasy 6:
Terra Branford: 8.09
Locke Cole: 4.24
Mog: 5.53
Edgar Roni Figaro: 8.35
Sabin Rene Figaro: 6.74
Banon: N/A
Shadow: 5.82
Cyan Garamonde: 2.38
Gau: 4.68
Celes Chere: 7.09
Setzer Gabbianni: 5.46
Strago Magus: 3.85
Relm Arrowny: 4.85
Umaro: 1.56
Gogo: 6.24
Best Rating of session: Edgar w/ 8.35
Worst Rating of session: Umaro w/ 1.56
Banon and Bosch both get punted and are not ranked.
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
15. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
16. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
17. Tana (FE8) 8.73
18. Purim (SoM) 8.70
19. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
20. Asellus (SaGa) 8.67
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
17. Squid (FFT) 1.25
18t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
18t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
20. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
At this point, I'm going to just stop with "BEST RATING!!!" and "WORST RATING!!!" nonsense, and just leave it to bolding cause, well, seriously, its silly to do that when we're doing multiple casts at once. I might do a Strike Out for DNR'd characters in the future as well.
Also, I think its time I remind you factors like "more fun!" or random favoritism for anything that isn't adhering towards how good/bad the character is has no place here. Furthermore, simply rating for the sake of giving someone a lower/higher rating to boost their score is not acceptable either. I can tell when people are rating based solely for that reason, and I won't mention names, but if you aren't going to actually put genuine thought into this topic, don't rate at all. This is not a popularity contest, nor is it a "dismiss factors in the game for my own convenience!" Does this mean you have to go on the same standards as everyone else? Oh definitely not; different playstyles yield different things, but there are some cases where I know that some people KNOW of how good/bad something actually is, but choose to dismiss it based on some other factors.
And again, DO NOT CHANGE THE NAME OF CHARACTERS AS I LIST THEM. Given the way I check names, it makes it harder for me if you do this. I list them a specific way for multiple reasons, and doing this is just making it harder. If you can't take the effort to just copy and paste based off the first post, then I really don't know what to say.
Ok, all that off my chest, given the popularity of a particular challenge going on the internet lately, and how the DL fell victim to it, I think since its kind of still fresh on their minds and all that, its an appropriate time to do this...as well as it fits chronologically:
Final Fantasy 5 Jobs:
Freelancer:
Black Mage:
Blue Mage:
Knight:
Monk:
Thief:
White Mage:
Berserker:
Mystic Knight:
Red Mage:
Summoner:
Time Mage:
Beastmaster:
Geomancer:
Ninja:
Bard:
Ranger:
Chemist:
Dancer:
Dragoon:
Samurai:
Mime:
Canoneer:
Gladiator:
Oracle:
Necromancer:
Yes, I did add in FF5a Jobs cause...well...unlike in say, FF4 where Advance ratings would be notably different than Vanilla ratings for some characters, the changes here don't matter on version, at least for the original set of jobs.
Also, yeah, names are based off the Advanced Version of the game, just cause its translation is superior so it deserves to be acknowledged here. If you argue otherwise, I will punch you...then you will explode!
...and no, barring maybe a joke bonus round, we are NOT doing Final Fantasy 5 Characters...for obvious reasons...
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Freelancer: DNR. Freelancer occupies a very unique niche and it's certainly pretty good, but for I have difficulty comparing it directly to other jobs.
Black Mage: 6/10. Black Mage is spiky, tending to do quite well at certain points in the game, mostly very early and then again right after you get L3 spells which just do sick things to the your damage output for a while. Outside these parts they're a bit unimpressive but those parts are enough for an above average score.
Blue Mage: 7.5/10. Blue Mage has that weird opportunity cost thing (it takes effort to get). Certainly they have tricks that rape many bosses, from Aqualung to Level-based spells to Mighty Guard. I'd give them a higher score (since the tricks aren't -that- hard to get and I rate assuming knowledge of the game) but I don't think they're really that special for randoms (many of their spells have overly high MP costs).
Knight: 5.5/10. Hits things. Serves its role in a fairly unremarkable way, being good in disc 1 then tapering off into forgetfulness, although never bad.
Monk: 4.5/10. Tough one here. Compared to Knight... a little better early, but then worse for the rest of the game (as swords get tricks and shields get good)... except they're better to master for stats, which keeps the gap closer. Very similar niches though.
Thief: 3.5/10. Unlike a certain game last session, FF5's steal actually nets some decently useful stuff. They also have great speed, and their immunity to back attacks and Flee own a certain nasty area in world 1. Still, they're a much less pleasant class to master than some others with speed almost as high, and stealing still isn't incredible or anything.
White Mage: 6.5/10. Curaga + Shell = you win the game against bosses pretty much, and Holy is an incredibly easy 4500~ damage against lategame bosses (9000+ against those who are holy weak!). Like most FF white mages, certainly less impressive early, and being unable to equip element-boosters (besides Gaia Gear and Sage Staff) does hold them back some.
Berserker: 1.5/10. Berserk sucks, axes suck. You can set Two-Hands on them and get some decent damage output but that's still slow and uncontrollable. Only thing that saves them from a 1 is the easy vit mastery.
Mystic Knight: 5/10. Not sure how I feel about them. Certainly, Magic Sword has some pretty awesome cheese against bosses (lol Break Sword on Neo Exdeath), but it's shaky against randoms due to needing two turns. Speed mastery is nice (same as ninja), but you probably will want to skip it since all you get for mastery otherwise is SOS Shell. An average score works.
Red Mage: 5/10. A pretty solid jeigan with most everything worthwhile about BM and WM early (though, the magic is a bit lower). Becomes terrible in world 2... but it's also how you get Dualcast (preferably via Magic Pots so you spend less actual time here). Another weird case I'm not sure what to make of, so another average score.
Summoner: 8.5/10. Pretty much make the game explode from world 2 on. The W1 summons are decent, even! (MT damage is always nice.) But Gaia Gear-strengthened Titan is wrong, Air Knife-strengthened Syldra is MORE wrong, then everything in the final dungeon is weak to Leviathan. And that's just damage; Golem is a great buff (Carbuncle's not bad either), Odin is a great status attack, and Phoenix is great revival. Oh and game-best magic. If their W1 were better they could be a truly amazing class. As is they're just the best class in the game.
Time Mage: 8/10. Like Summoner, their W1 could be better, though they're great against bosses (who tend to fear Demi/Slow/Stop, and Haste is always nice). After that they take off, since they remain good against bosses but Comet is nice against randoms (very cheap, ~1000 damage that any class can use). Then Hastega is sick and wrong and rapes everything after Moore. Even if you get Hermes Sandals to mitigate this, Quick (gained at the same time, for cheaper) is sick and wrong, and Meteor is nice too.
Beastmaster: 6/10. Yet another weird one. Control is damn good, taking to pieces most things that aren't bosses, which includes some nasty randoms. Capture can be a little annoying to use (Kornago Gourd help a ton, though) but can carve things in half . Toss in its helpfulness in learning blue magic and it feels like it balances out to an above average package overall.
Geomancer: 4/10. Terrain is pretty good randombashing... except it doesn't scale up nearly enough so it generally has problems late. Bossfighting ability is terrible outside Bahamut more or less.
Ninja: 7/10. Ninja's got many things going for it though it rarely feels outright abusive. Paired with a (non-white) mage job, it's the best randombasher from the time you unlock them until the time you get Titan, and still slightly better thereafter aside from resource consumption (though outclassed in world 3). Dual-wield is a nice ability for hardcore lategame physical twinking. They have a good speed mastery (and unlike Thief, you actually want to master them for other reasons). They're clearly worse than Summoners (somewhat comparable random-bashing and stat mastery niches, but Summon utility is way better than Dual-wield) but still pretty darn good.
Bard: 5.5/10. Probably the best FF bard ever, wonderful against the undead and some good MT status options. Terrible HP and kinda fail against bosses who immune their tricks, though, holds them back from a really high score.
Ranger: 5/10. There are some decent bows, but in the end, they're all about Rapidfire. Rapidfire is good but not really great until very late. Otherwise, they have decent speed and decent back-row weapons so they're not unpleasant to spend time in at least.
Chemist: 7/10. Not sure. Chemist has lots of great little tricks, but them being entirely ST is a huge damper on them. Some of their good mixes also rely on quite limited items. Still pretty badass.
Dancer: 4/10. Sword Dance with the right boosting is pretty nice. The HP sucks on a frontline fighter, though, and Dance generally isn't as good as Rapidfire outside a few specific instances.
Dragoon: 2/10. Dragoon doesn't do anything offensively wrong. There's just almost no reason to use one. Every other heavy armour job brings more to the table.
Samurai: 5/10. Like these guys. Samurais are a weird case, I think they're relatively much better when you know the game less well, because throwing money at things solves so many problems. However, the cost of doing so is steep until late (when Gil Toss isn't that great anyway) so if you know other ways to dominate, Samurai will suffer. It's still a nice command to have, and Samurai aren't a bad class to be in otherwise due to the decent stats/equips and crits.
Mime: DNR, same reasoning as Freelancer. I may edit in scores if I think they'll be ranked.
Aftergame classes:
Cannoneer: Abstain. Never really bothered.
Gladiator: 2/10. I guess they're more pleasant to be in than Berserker, but they share the trait of "the only reason to use them is a path to stat masteries, and they're not even necessarily the best at that".
Oracle: 2.5/10. Better to be in than Berserker, worse than Gladiator. But they're much faster to master and they're the best at what they do.
Necromancer: 0/10. Completely useless.
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Final Fantasy 5 Jobs:
Freelancer: Mmm, Freelancer's worth is all late, where it's definitely good, but the tardiness there... yeah. 4/10.
Black Mage: Decent cannon, but others do it better. 6/10.
Blue Mage: I respect the tricks but it's pretty FAQbaity. 6/10.
Knight: Hits things. 5/10.
Monk: Hits things, useful for mastery. 4.5/10.
Thief: Meh. 3/10.
White Mage: Has some good defensive stuff. 6.5/10.
Berserker: Trash. I don't consider the easy vit boost to be worth half a point. 1/10.
Mystic Knight: Solid at things, has boss cheese. 6/10.
Red Mage: Good in W1, not so much past that. 4/10.
Summoner: Boom. 9/10.
Time Mage: Are pretty silly. 8/10.
Beastmaster: Helps with getting blue magic, capture gives some cute tricks. 5.5/10.
Geomancer: Passives come in handy a few times but that is basically all they exist for to me. 3/10.
Ninja: Is generally pretty good. 7/10.
Bard: Is decent. 5/10.
Ranger: Is also decent. 5/10.
Chemist: Silly but ST and kinda FAQish. 6/10.
Dancer: Meh. 3/10.
Dragoon: At least they aren't berserkers. 2/10.
Samurai: Eh. 4/10.
Mime: 4/10.
Canoneer: Abstain
Gladiator: Abstain
Oracle: Abstain
Necromancer: Abstain
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Also, I think its time I remind you factors like "more fun!" or random favoritism for anything that isn't adhering towards how good/bad the character is has no place here.
At risk of starting up a silly debate... I know what you're getting at here, but it still doesn't quite work. If you have to jump through hoops to make a character awesome in-game, then it's entirely reasonable for somebody who found the hoops trivial / fun to give them 8/10 and for somebody who found the hoops unfun a 4/10, because people who found it unfun won't bother to uber the character up and won't assume that's part of an expected playthrough of the game. (Blue Mage ability grinding, Chemist Mix experimentation / FAQing, etc.) So fun factor *can* legitimately adjust a character's score on a steely "most powerful" basis.
Final Fantasy 5 Jobs:
Freelancer: DNR.
Black Mage: 6/10.
Blue Mage: 3/10. FAQbait, don't feel like having a Blue Mage constantly in my party to farm abilities and then feeling obligated to keep using it.
Knight: 6/10.
Monk: 4/10. Mastering Knight is about as good for your HP anyway, and you can sneak a Mastery in quick at the very end of the game.
Thief: 3/10. Mastering Ninja is about as good for your speed in this case.
White Mage: 8/10. I can't see playing FF5 without a White Mage. You can sneak in MT healing with some other classes but why not take the easy route that also gets other useful abilities.
Berserker: 1/10. Umaro in a game with no Fanatic's Tower.
Mystic Knight: 3/10. FF5 combat is pretty fast; I don't want to waste a turn setting up when your average random battle takes 2-3 rounds. Can do some situational boss smashing though, sure, and probably useful on a LLG or something.
Red Mage: 5/10? Bad by halfway through W2 but gets X-Magic as noted.
Summoner: 9/10. Ridiculous MT offense, Golem, it's been said.
Time Mage: 8/10. Best time mage in the series?
Beastmaster: Abstain.
Geomancer: 3/10. Helpful for that one dungeon (Exdeath's Tower in W2?), not much reason to use otherwise.
Ninja: 7/10. Dual Wield, speed.
Bard: Abstain.
Ranger: 6/10. Not an amazing class but hands out X-Fight and free back row.
Chemist: 4/10. FAQbait, I'll just use a WM instead.
Dancer: 4/10.
Dragoon: 5/10. I recall them basically being a Knight clone, except Knight is relatively better in W1, so slight score ding.
Samurai: 5/10. Knight / Sam / Dragoon, all tough beaters, all okay.
Mime: DNR.
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Okay, Dragoon should not be within a point of Knight, speaking as someone who just used both for a Fiesta playthrough. Reasons:
-Knight has substantially better strength and vit, which matters both for mastery and for just plain being in the job.
-Swords are MUCH better than spears. Swords can do fire, ice, and lightning damage, and can inflict sleep and old (well before the latter is available as a spell). They also have much more power; spears are often behind knives in damage. They're about equal in W3... unless you get the Brave Blade.
-Not only does Knight learn the useful damage-doubling Two Hands, but Dragoon can't even set it! For some reason spears are one-hand only.
-Knights have innate Cover. Due to this, I'd argue Guard ends up more useful than Jump (Guard/Cover totally shuts down pure physical bosses such as Garula) but your milage may vary.
-"Spam basic physicals ftw" is best early in the game when your MP supply is limited and enemies don't yet have evade. By the time Dragoon even exists this phase is over. (You already mentioned this one, but saying it for completion.)
Samurai has a similar but smaller list of advantages. Katanas > Spears, Two-Hands compatibility, Gil Toss (even used rarely) > Jump, better str/vit, innate Blade Grasp.
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Freelancer: 10/10. Best physical job overall (though Mime honestly can be more broken - yay 1 turn dead Omega Mk II!), though requires you mastering other classes first. Still, overall best stats, etc.
Black Mage: 6.4/10. Black Mage is awesome, but overshadowed by many other classes. Still, always helpful, and you can pull some cool tricks with mass Reflect on the team (lol Gogo vs. 2x damage Firagas)
Blue Mage: 8.3/10. You only need a couple Blue spells to maul the game, and they're not too tough to get. Other stuff is situational. Equipment options are awesome - shields, rods, swords, etc. It's a good base overall.
Knight: 5.7/10. The class itself is average, but it's support skills are great - Two-Handed for damage, and Cover/Guard are excellent for trick strategies (lol Gil Turtle)
Monk: 2.3/10. Uh...eh. Bonus HP is ok. Honestly, kind of pathetic, really - the damage trails badly after world 1 (and even during then), although you can use the strength boost of Barehanded with other classes. Once Kaiser Knuckles are available...eh. You'd rather have Hermes Sandals. Good for mastery, honestly, and that's about it. Will kill Jackanapes early, at least!!!
Thief: 6.4/10. Stealing, dashing, excellent speed, Flee, immunity to surprise attacks...yeah. I like the whole support structure here - stealing gets lots of good stuff early to help other classes. The class itself isn't awful to put support skills on - the speed allows you to make good use of, say, summon, or white magic for support.
White Mage: 6/10. The class as a whole is kind of weak, but the skillset is awesome (and Sage's Staff is excellent). Ok for boosted Titan with the Gaia Gear. Mmm...yeah, this feels fair - the tricks are nice, but the class itself feels weak until you get certain key points (Holy, different spells, etc.)
Berserker: 1.5/10. Uh...lots of durability. And has decent damage! Loves Two-Handed! Also, another one to kill early Jackanapes!! Yeah, bad overall.
Mystic Knight: 4.6/10. Not good for randoms. Good for some bosses (optionals particularly), and the stats are good. But...eh. Easily done without.
Red Mage: 4/10. Early is great...but just doesn't cut it after that. Needs another skillset added to it to get it's mastery fairly easily. X-Magic is good...but it is somewhat limiting (best with a Mime so you get 2 full magic skillsets). Just...eh. Other stuff is far better than X-Magic overall, so I don't give much credit to it.
Summoner: 9.7/10. Semi-slow start, but demolishes everything. This is the reason why people miss a lot of broken stuff - Summoner is straightforward and easy, so you rarely need to look for the broken >_>
Time Mage: 8.3/10. Weak early game - really, really weak. Needs another skillset like Black to deal damage, but the skillset overall is great. Quick is badass, and Meteo is awesome against single targets. The status is always helpful.
Beastmaster: 6.9/10. Catch and Control are awesome - takes a bit to get, but worth it on big enemies. Yay 9999 damage early in the game! Demolishes things. Also, some of the whips are nice (Firebute is a nice part of cheaping out Shinryuu).
Geomancer: 2.8/10. Terrain is good...but random. On the plus side, it masters fast...and the passives are helpful. But...blah. Rarely worth it.
Ninja: 8.3/10. Awesomeness. Demolishes randoms. Hurts bosses. Is fast. Great masteries. Durability is a little weak, but...who cares.
Bard: 5.5/10. Requiem alone puts Bard high - it eats up Gil Turtle and Moore Pyramid. Overall kind of weak outside of that one skill, but...it really is awesome. Oh, and Romeo's Ballad on Omega for hilarity.
Ranger: 5.5/10. The mastery is all you want from this class, but it's an awesome mastery.
Chemist: 8.3/10. Requires experimentation, but holy shit...so good. Only source of water-boosting in the game. Great crazy tricks (hey, let's kill a magic pot! Turn it into a dragon, raise Butz's level to max, X-Fight with Dragon Lances = gg). Everything is fairly easy to come by as well, so it's not a class that's hard to keep going.
Dancer: 3.2/10. I...yeah. The equipment is the best part of the job. Sword Dance is nice, but...you can't put the Dancer up front. Just not durable enough, as I found out in my run. Works ok stat-wise with other skillsets, but...yeah.
Dragoon: 2.3/10. lol. Jump has uses, though situational, and theoretically, Lancet is good. Just...yeah. No point, honestly - if you got it far earlier, maybe. May honestly be worse than Berserker.
Samurai: 6.1/10. Mmm...slowish. But the skills are nice. Samurai swords are badass - Masamune kicks ass, and the critical hit rates are awesome. Durable too. And Giltoss is amazing, though costly - trivializes randoms overall, even in the bonus dungeon. Consistent damage is helpful, at least.
Mime: 10/10. Best magical job overall, also decent on physicals (full power Chicken Knife is awesome).
Canoneer: 2.4/10. Combine would be great if you got the job in World 1. Open Fire...has some uses. Equipment and stats are good. Just...yeah. Pointless.
Gladiator: 3.1/10. Probably better than Knight overall...if only it came earlier. Stats are great - mastering it gives you overall great stats in all categories, and if you have to master one class for stats, this would be it. Its skills are good too! Bladeblitz is helpful, though again, late. Finisher is nice, with great average damage. Very good class, just too late.
Oracle: 1.3/10. BEST MAGIC. Uh...everything else is sucky. Really, really sucky. Not worth it, really.
Necromancer: 1.1/10. A neat class, but...wow. No point. No. Freaking. Point.
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Final Fantasy 5 Jobs:
Freelancer: DNR. Worth is entirely based on other jobs.
Black Mage: 6/10. Nukes stuff but good for a chunk of the game.
Blue Mage: 5/10. Some effort to get Blue spells makes them solid, alot of effort makes them fantastic, not much effort or bad luck makes them shitty. Reliance on another class to get some spells without MASSIVE headaches is also a factor. Evens out to average.
Knight: 7/10. Owns the early game for free. Owns most of the midgame without much effort. Even late, is tanky as hell and the damage never gets outright bad. Ability to swap between 2H and shields for big spikes in either damage or durability is much appriciated. Knight rocks face.
Monk: 4/10. Not bad really, but the lack of equip options hurt. Also getting compared to Knight for the early game hurts.
Thief: 3/10. Has a few points where they get nice stuff and spike in use. Steal gets a point. That's...about it.
White Mage: 8/10. White magic beats the game, straight up. Lack of early offense hold it back, and I hear one boss makes an SCC flat out impossible, but otherwise they own.
Berserker: 1/10. My love for it is like a truck.
Mystic Knight: 6/10. Easy to use, solid damage, reasonably durable. Stronger in teh late game then Knight, but doesn't have the same brainless period of "mash A win" that Knight does.
Red Mage: 2/10 OR 5/10. Having just used one in the fiesta, I can state with certainty that the latter score is entirely for doublecast to give to SOMEONE ELSE ANYONE ELSE to use. Red Mage has stuff early. Stuff that TM/Summoner/BM are all better at on the magic side and Knight/MK are better at on the physical side. Past world 1, Red Mage blows chunks and was reliably my LVP in a team that contained a GEOMANCER. By the time you can get doublecast on them, they have only 2 real things to do with it. Cura and Protect. The -aras have stopped being viable offense some time ago. It's worth 2 points for it's early performance and ability to rod break, any further points are entirely for doublecast on classes that aren't RM. Even with doublecast on itself, it's still only a 2. Meep: use whichever RM score fits what you want from the ratings better, class in a vacuum or getting cred for an ability that's worth more then the rest of the class total.
Summoner: 8/10. On par with WM works.
Time Mage: 8/10. I like that WM/Summoner/TM honestly all feel pretty even and have completely different bags of tricks.
Beastmaster: 5/10. Control is good for Blue learning, Capture has some hax. Underwhelming otherwise, but I'll even it out to average.
Geomancer: 3/10. Unreliable, but not shitty. Good for brainless mashing in most dungeons(!Gaia will rarely do something BAD for you, though it is known to be useless on occassion). Owns Sea Trench for free, which amuses me to no end but it's not really worth a point, I just like pointing it out.
Ninja: 6/10. Duel wield is nice, they use it well themselves and it's great passed onto others. They also have more then just one good ability! Solid class overall, but doesn't feel as dominant as Knight on the physical side.
Bard: 6/10. Secretly broken. Not so secretly frail as piss.
Ranger: 4/10. Again, a meh class with a great ability. But like ninjas(not a meh class, but the comparison works) and duel wield, they actually make solid enough use of themselves(am I making it obvious enough that I think RM on it's own is trash? I think I am). Worse then ninja overall, but I prefer rapid fire over duel weild, so they get more points for that. Just less for the overall package.
Chemist: 7/10. Broken as shit, but FAQ bait and requires grinding to get enough dragon fangs to really put it to good use. If I'm going to hold FAQ bait and hassle against Blue Mage, I'm gonna hold it against Chemist too. This still leaves them at a 7.
Dancer: 3/10. Harsh, but having just used one in the Fiesta...the best use for her was as a secondary Time caster. Dancer is owned by the undead. Massively. Sword Dance, even with boosting, is unreliable. And her really good equips aren't until last dungeon. Dancer's alright, but not good.
Dragoon: 2/10. Better then Berserker. That's about it.
Samurai: 5/10. Actually quite strong, but Knight/MK/Ninja are already getting the job done by this point.
Mime: DNR. See Freelancer.
Canoneer: 4/10. Fun, but niche and not that great really. I still recomend using one sometime, they're fun. MT damage+status is a neat niche and they do it well.
Gladiator: 3/10. It's Samurai all over again, only much later. An excellent physical combatant option...you've had time to master other physical options and are probably using freelancer setups by the time it comes.
Oracle: 0/10. I hear they have some theoretical use. I remain skeptical.
Necromancer: Abstain. Never got one.
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Final Fantasy 5 Jobs:
Freelancer: DNR
Black Mage: 6/10. Decent.
Blue Mage: 7/10. Requires some effort to be great, but very versatile and even minimal effort tends to pay off big with em.
Knight: 6/10. On par with Black seems about right. The physical class of choice IMO.
Monk: 3/10. Mainly hurt by Knight being right there.
Thief: 8/10. Dash, Passages, and no back attacks are essential to me. Excepting endgame and bosses with no good steals there is no time I don't want a thief in the party. They don't win fights directly, sure, but they prevent you from losing them (a bad back attack is one of the only ways to actually wipe to randoms...) and help you win later fights indirectly with how awesome Steal is in this game. And they don't need job levels to work at all, so you can rotate around who your thief is and have a good secondary on them. I guess they're worse in the later ports with auto-dash, but I've only played SNES so... can't imagine not running with one.
White Mage: 9/10. Even more essential. Rest of your party does whatever you want, but your !White user is your ultimate insurance of winning, basically all game. Not a 10 because the class itself is bad to be in as long as someone keeps the command current.
Berserker: 2.5/10. Contrary to popular opinion using one isn't going to make you lose. This is FF5. >_> But there's still no actual reason to use them. Much like Monk, with a faster but somewhat less useful mastery.
Mystic Knight: 6.5/10. Bad on randoms, great on bosses, bad on randoms made up for by having probably the best all around stat mastery.
Red Mage: 3.5/10. !Red is never really good and honestly neither is dumping 1000+ otherwise totally dead JP in for doublecast. I was going to say "doublecast is good, but..." but honestly? It's not even that impressive by itself, until it's on a Mime or being combined with Quick shenanigans.
Summoner: 10/10. Wins game. Is never a bad class to be in, either statwise (okay, okay, fork tower, 9.999/10) or as a JP sink.
Time Mage: 8/10. Incredibly powerful shenanigans. Another must-run job for someone to run. etc.
Beastmaster: 6/10. !Control is maybe the best nonmagic command in the game, learn-once-throw-on-anything, no items or anything needed, synergizes with other jobs, etc. Otherwise unremarkable class.
Geomancer: 4/10. Good passives and quick mastery for them gives it more of a reason to exist than Monk and less pain than RM.
Ninja: 7/10. DPSDPSDPSDPS
Bard: 5/10. Not actually that bad, especially if you have Arcane Knowledge of Game Mechanics, and outright good in a couple of otherwise annoying dungeons.
Ranger: 5.5/10. I guess. Bows ain't bad, but why bother grinding this when you have (M)Knight and Ninja right there? Like doublecast, X-fight isn't even that good without some twinking from elsewhere, so it seems a kinda superfluous "win MORE" to me.
Chemist: 5/10. This is how easily broken this game is. Chemist is *average*.
Dancer: 4/10. Exists. "Whore Swords Dance", the ultimate in ghetto twinkery!!!
Dragoon: 2/10. The worst class. There is just no reason. Even less than Berserker, who can at least claim their stat mastery does something! They're still a 2 because this is FF5.
Samurai: 6/10. Insert witty one liner about capitalism solving problems. And the Masamune is good.
Mime: DNR
Glad, Cannon, Oracle: Abstain
Necromancer: 0/10. You get this *where*? After the entire game I have played, *and* after all the extra stuff I haven't? Ahahahahaahahahahaha I even feel justified voting on this. There's no in-game left for them to be useful!
-
At risk of starting up a silly debate... I know what you're getting at here, but it still doesn't quite work. If you have to jump through hoops to make a character awesome in-game, then it's entirely reasonable for somebody who found the hoops trivial / fun to give them 8/10 and for somebody who found the hoops unfun a 4/10, because people who found it unfun won't bother to uber the character up and won't assume that's part of an expected playthrough of the game. (Blue Mage ability grinding, Chemist Mix experimentation / FAQing, etc.) So fun factor *can* legitimately adjust a character's score on a steely "most powerful" basis.
Not necessarily what I'm referring too actually. I fully understand the argument of "requires more effort than its worth" to make x character useful. You'll note some people, including myself, have held this against some characters like, say, Nino in FE7, who is a clear example of a character who is great when caught up, but the whole "is it worth it?" factor kicks in, and that goes against her.
Its more that when people overlook uses of characters that do NOT require much work, simply because "it bores me" or "I have more fun using this character!" If x character does something legitimately as good as y character, but y character is "more fun", but not necessarily more effective/more practical, the "fun" value is completely meaningless. Some people despise using KOS MOS in XS1 for example cause she's "Hookerbot" and all that, and prefer using a team of chaos/Ziggy/Shion lets say (random Non-KOS MOS team off the top of my head), purely on grounds of character preferences. Someone may actually hold that against KOS MOS and lower her score as a result, based entirely on Non-gameplay merits. She didn't require any extra work to make good, as a turn off, didn't require any sort of obtuse means to be good, the person just didn't like her, thus didn't use her, and held that against her. That's what I'm getting at.
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Freelancer: DNR.
Black Mage: 6/10
Blue Mage: 8/10. Aqualung.
Knight: 7/10. I like swords.
Monk: 4/10.
Thief: 2/10.
White Mage: 7/10.
Berserker: 1/10.
Mystic Knight: 5/10.
Red Mage: 6/10.
Summoner: 9/10.
Time Mage: 8/10.
Beastmaster: 5/10.
Geomancer: 4/10.
Ninja: 8/10.
Bard: 6/10.
Ranger: 5/10.
Chemist: 6/10.
Dancer: 4/10.
Dragoon: 1/10.
Samurai: 6/10.
Mime: DNR
Canoneer: Abstain
Gladiator: Abstain
Oracle: Abstain
Necromancer: Abstain
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Final Fantasy 5 Jobs:
Freelancer: DNR. Yeah, its a job that exists as filler early game when you have none, and as a late game overpowered beast to reap off the work of other jobs. I guess its a Non-Berserker Axe using Job or something!
Black Mage: 6/10. Even after Summoner, its a better boss fighter for a while (Summoner doesn't pass it until Ramuh and only on bosses not weak to Fire or Ice), and then becomes Summoner-lite for most of World 2 (he's not BAD, just Bio < Titan), then gets Aga's and rocks for a little while! Yeah, above average rating.
Blue Mage: 8/10. Kick ass abilities even if they're a bit of a pain to get. Also Swords let it do something resembling physical damage as a plus.
Knight: 6/10. Alright Physical Fighter throughout, Cover+Guard is a nice trick for some bosses. Extra point for Double Grip, which is a nice skill for a lot of fighters in this game pre-Dual Wield.
Monk: 6/10. Game best HP and Strength, Counter and good ST damage, and Brawl works to give jobs like White Mage actual damage for a while. Would be higher if Kaiser Knuckles didn't compete with Hermes Sandals.
Thief: 4/10. Utilities are nice, Double Lance gives them a moment of good damage, and they have game best speed! Yeah, the scrub of the Wind Jobs. Steal's not bad either, and I want to say Mug can allow usage of Chicken Knife for less AP than Rapid Fire?
White Mage: 6/10. Good until you get Red Mage, then useless seeing as Red Mage is them trading in a bit of HP and MP for an actual physical and Black Magic with a free skill slot. They're kind of worthless until Mua where they get Curaga and suddenly White Magic is a nice fall back for any job cause the healing upgrade is too big to ignore.
Berserker: 2/10. Almost Monk level Vitality, and good strength for 200 less AP is something, and they CAN do really good damage if you care at certain parts! Yeah, that's about all I can say good about them.
Mystic Knight: 6/10. Spell Blade is awesome, that is all. Ninja-level speed and SOS Shell is a nice boon. Why aren't they higher? Since they're kind of meh on randoms.
Red Mage: 5/10. Basically obsolete White Mages in World 1! Thing is, they do not last in World 2 since Cura sucks there, Aras (especially off their Magic) are not strong enough, and they never really get better. Dual Cast gets them a point of course since that is indeed awesome, though you should do whatever it takes to spend as little time as possible in this job to get it.
Summoner: 8.5/10. What happens when you give a Job high offense, alongside an Anti-Physical move? This!
Time Mage: 7/10. Just a nice skillset overall.
Beastmaster: 4/10. Whips are alright, and there are some nice catches. Control makes getting Blue Magic easier too. They're really a very much "almost there but really not worth effort" job.
Geomancer: 4/10. Terrain has some nice stuff, but overall just not worth it barring a few very specific areas.
Ninja: 8/10. Fast, does good damage, Throw is good for bosses, and Dual Wield is of course amazing.
Bard: 4/10. Charm Song and Love Song are cool, and Requiem kicks ass when usable. That said, there's little reason to use these guys overall, though they are quick to master.
Ranger: 6/10. Animals is good healing at lower levels due to Nighting Gale being pretty reliable, Bows are good for Back Row damage, and Rapid Fire is...Rapid Fire.
Chemist: 7/10. See Mystic Knight, only breaks bosses far worse.
Dancer: 3/10. Ribbons are nice, as is Sword Dance, but the latter is not reliable enough until much later and they really don't have anything going for them otherwise.
Dragoon: 2/10. I want to give them lower, but Lancet is alright for Mages so I give them that much. That said, Jump is not as strong as it should be, stats are non-special for physical fighters, Lances can't be used with Double Grip, and Jump just kind of sucks.
Samurai: 5/10. Gil Toss is a nice early game Trump Card to get out of a jam, Katanas have Crits which is nice, and Blade Grasp is neat. Overall, though, they're just kind of there, and can be skipped over without any real penalties. Passable but unremarkable I guess earns an average score.
Mime: DNR. See Freelancer for the most part.
Canoneer: 4/10. Open Fire is cool for a free attack, but nothing special. Combine is a nice alternative to Syldra that can be used in conjunction with jobs that need MP for something else (like...uhh...White Mage <_<?) Not much beyond that though.
Gladiator: 5/10. Game best strength in FF5a, good speed, Finisher can yield far more dramatic results than Dance, and good equips...yep.
Oracle: 1.5/10. GAME BEST MAGIC! READ AHEAD! ABP UP! Ok, this Job is garbage; game best magic is more of a technical thing than an actual thing since the difference between it and Summoner isn't' large enough to care. Read Ahead is Moogle Charm-, and is gotten later and much harder, and I don't give Mog that much credit for Moogle Charm. AP Up is gotten after a point you've likely gained a lionshaer of the AP you need, and requires a lot of AP just to learn as is so takes a while for it to pay off. What's it got otherwise? One of the few jobs that can't use Knives thus despite its Magic Power making it one of the WORST Syldra users in the game, a ridiculously useless skillset, and can't even use Rods to support Black Magic. Its like all it can do is hurl big powerful Holy's for ST damage. I guess the fact that there's SOME theoretical use gives it half a point.
Necromancer: 1/10. Is Undead and its gotten so ridiculously late, combined with the nature of how it learns things means there's no real way I can give this job a remote sense of credit. I'm sorry, but "Boss Rush only" is not something I can respect with all those flaws.
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Finisher can yield far more dramatic results than Dance, and good equips...yep.
I'm trying to figure this comment out. Dance can do 9999x2, Finisher can not (at least, I don't remember it working with Dual-wield, and a quick search seems to support this. Provided you're in Freelancer, Dance's damage output is clearly higher, both peak and on average. Unless by "dramatic" you meant "flashier animation" in which case yeah sure.
(If I'm wrong and Finisher can do 9999x2, then I underrated the ability and it is indeed better than Dance against Enuo.)
Actually in general all this Gladiator hype feels wrong to me. Hyping Gladiator's good equips feels off when, this late, you're pretty much competing directly with Mime and Freelancer. Hyping their str... Monk's is just as high, and both take the same AP to master. At least Oracle genuinely offers +3 mag over Summoner... and it literally takes less AP to master Oracle than it does to gain just the one last job level of Summoner (y'know, the otherwise useless one). Sure Gladiator's better to be in (than both Oracle and Monk, although the latter you've had all game to build AP in, and it was better for quite a while...), but it's still not great to be in and both frankly represent investments of "be less awesome now to be more awesome later".
I guess I'm objecting to:
-Gladiator > Dancer
-Gladiator = Monk
-Gladiator >>> Oracle (I can see it being better, just not by that much)
-Oracle = Necromancer (c'mon dude, Necromancer is just totally useless, while magic mastery has a clear use)
This may convince me to give scores to Necromancer, Oracle, and Gladiator though. (No idea how I feel about Cannoneer, feels like I'd need to refamiliarise myself with aftergame randoms.)
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Gladiator's Finisher also has Critical which can do a lot of damage as well (albeit it not as much as Sword Dance), though thing is, Sword Dance kind of requires building around it. Finisher can be given to any job and doing big damage. True, Chicken Knife exists, but that can only go to one PC.
Finisher at its best is 25% chance of Critical, 50% chance of Elemental Attack (which basically OHKOs most randoms, so 9999x2 only really matters vs. Bosses), and 25% failure. Dance is 50% of Mystery Waltz (who cares?) and Jitterbug Duet (this late, its really not worth it IIRC) 50% chance of Sword Dance. They feel comparable, but Dance requires specific equips, Finisher does not. That's why I respect it more.
Worth noting that Sword Dance Up comes from Lamia's Tiara only as far as Non-Dancer Specifics go (doesn't matter in the case of Freelancer who would just use Rainbow suit anyway), and fighters can't use that (closest is Blue Mage and Red Mage), so physical jobs are stuck with 25% chance Sword Dance. Finisher at level 2 (when you learn it from Gladiator) is roughly 33% for each results (with Critical being slightly higher), so ts just that much more reliable on fighters. Granted, Rapid Fire could be argued as making both obsolete, but Finisher requires much less AP to gain (only 100.)
The equip thing is mostly there for when you're using Gladiator, illustrating its not painful. Having a job with High Strength who can use, say, Yoichi Bow with 0 Penalties is not a bad thing for example. Plus mastering Gladiator gives you Ninja speed and game best strength. Blade Blitz exists too, though its not really that good (75% MT Physical damage; basically FF7 Slash All. I'd respect it more if it worked with Blood Sword!)
Gladiator also gives Long Reach though unsure if that transfers directly to Mime/Freelancer or not like Dual Wield does. My respect for that hinges 100% on that really.
There's actual reasons to invest in AP beyond Finisher for Gladiator. Dancer...only if you really want Equip Ribbon.
I suppose I should give Oracle a higher rating than Necromancer thinking about it granted.
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The thing is, this is the FF5 aftergame (or at least very late maingame). "Building around" Dancer isn't exactly much effort, seeing as the Rainbow Dress is one of the game's best armours anyway. True, Mimes can't use it, but they can't use Ribbons either so the Lamia's Tiara is actually one of their best headgears. This really isn't much of a building effort at all. By the time you have the final jobs, we don't care about non-Freelancer/Mime jobs as carriers, so the fact that e.g. Knight can't use Dance that well is irrelevant (and I don't understand why you bring it up... what setup are you thinking of that would realistically go Gladiator -> Knight/etc. in the aftergame?). The building that Finisher takes to reach the numbers you cite (requires a mastered Gladiator, though it's admittedly not -that- much worse at lower levels) is substantially more of an issue if anything. The only reason to use Finisher over Dance is because you're spending time in Gladiator -anyway-.
On the 2x9999 point... There are certainly monsters with more than 9999 HP (Iron Giants, King Behemoths, Great Dragons, Crystal Dragons... I don't have aftergame specifics in front of me but I'm sure there's more!) And against anything with notably less, we're just going to gun them down with MT anyway. Actually chances are we're gunning just about everything down with MT (Odin makes short work of even the aforementioned tanky enemies, after all). As such, neither Dance or Finisher is something I'd hype much for randoms, but Dance deserves substantial hype for Enuo, which alone eclipses everything Gladiator does in my eyes.
Long Reach is not innate, for the record. As such I see very, very little worth mastering Gladiator for. Basically it has stats... kinda. Assuming you care about your physicals, you're much better off mastering Ninja for speed (since it grants Dual-Wield, which most physical setups will want) and something else for strength (since you'd get vit at the same time, something Gladiator notably lacks). If you don't care about physicals, then there are many cheaper options for speed: Thief, for instance, which has the side benefit of back attack immunity. Or Mystic Knight, which has the same speed for the same AP, but -also- comes with decent vit, which could be helpful if you can't be bothered to have your mage spend time in more than one non-mage job.
I mean, let's compare Gladiator vs. Monk, to beat in what a difference there is. Yeah, both lead to game-best strength at the cost of 700 AP, but Monk's comes with game-best vit while Gladiator is merely one of ~5 options which provide high speed. And you can get started on Monk way earlier. And Monk is a really good class to actually be in for most of world 1 (but especially pre-Karnak) due to great HP, amazing physical damage, and innate counter. Gladiator is merely a tolerable class to be in lategame (but really, way behind Freelancer/Mime so it's hardly worth caring about except maybe in a head-to-head comparison with Oracle or something. Monk provides plenty of useful abilities for other classes to set: Counter is nice on knights with cover, Barehanded instantly gives everything high physical damage for world 1, Buildup has uses as a damage booster; Gladiator's abilities are all highly questionable due to the point of the game you get them.
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Freelancer: N/A
Black Mage: 6.05
Blue Mage: 6.60
Knight: 6.03
Monk: 4.04
Thief: 4.11
White Mage: 7.13
Berserker: 1.44
Mystic Knight: 5.26
Red Mage: 4.50
Summoner: 8.96
Time Mage: 7.91
Beastmaster: 5.49
Geomancer: 3.48
Ninja: 7.29
Bard: 5.29
Ranger: 5.25
Chemist: 6.29
Dancer: 3.53
Dragoon: 2.29
Samurai: 5.26
Mime: N/A
Cannoneer: N/A
Gladiator: N/A
Oracle: N/A
Necromancer: N/A
Best rating of session: Summoner w/ 8.96
Worst rating of session: Berserker w/ 1.44 for FF5o
Freelancer and Mime were not ranked due to DNRs. The Advance Only classes all did not get rated due to lack of substantial votes.
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
17. Squid (FFT) 1.25
18t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
18t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
20. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
For those wondering, Substantial Votes = 5 or more ratings that are something not DNR or Abstains. I have a limit of 5 minimum for this just cause I said so.
That said, MOVING ONTO SOMETHING I WILL HATE MYSELF FOR...and one standard game...
Grandia 2:
Ryudo:
Elena:
Millenia:
Roan:
Mareg:
Tio:
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1:
Ted-1:
Luc-1:
Riou:
Jowy Atreides:
Luc-2:
Tir McDohl-2:
Hugo:
Chris:
Geddoe:
Sasarai:
Luc-3:
Yuber:
Lazlo:
Ted-4:
Freyjadour:
Lyon:
Zerase:
Like in Fire Emblem, characters have numbers by their names to help distinguish what game they're from. And no, I don't care if you agree with how I split characters up, I am NOT taking a character off now and putting them later just cause you think its unfair where they got put. When we rate them shouldn't change how you rate them, and we are rating them eventually anyway and I am NOT doing it later. Also, don't think you're being cute with this stuff either. Its when I list the characters or not at all.
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Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 4.5/10. Gut says his stat distribution is a bit worse than Roan's, and I don't think SDS quite makes up for this.
Elena: 6/10. Stats are all a bit shaky (outside MP I think?) but Nightmare Ball is amazing.
Millenia: 8.5/10. Speed can be worked with, durability doesn't matter too much in Grandia 2. Game-best magic is great, skillset is just broken.
Roan: 5/10. Pretty much average.
Mareg: 2.5/10. Kinda suffers in the way the archetype so often does.
Tio: 7.5/10. Fast and usually has the highest magic, plus MT cancel. Not much to be unimpressed by here (well, raw physical damage is on the low end), but she doesn't feel worth a higher score to me. EDIT: Apparently does not have the highest magic, so lowered half a point.
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: 8.5/10. Only flaw is that he can't equip other runes to have e.g. damage pre-Black Shadow, or healing. Great stats, great true rune (instant death spells are great), halves all elements, etc.
Ted-1: DNR
Luc-1: 6/10. S1 has so many scrubs that even someone like Luc, who has pdur of paper that has been soaking in water for two days, is a worthy choice. Magic is the god stat and he's decently speedy, and can equip any rune you want.
Riou: 7.5/10. Good overall stats, and Bright Shield is certainly solid, although not quite as potent as the Soul Eater.
Jowy Atreides: Not sure if this is DNR or not. May decide later. He's actually around enough to potentially matter, and has good stats, a good unite with Riou, and one shot of awesome damage against Double Head at least. 7/10 is my kneejerk for his score.
Luc-2: 6.5/10. Durability is a bit better than S1, and rune affinities make him relatively better at magical mayhem... but magical mayhem is less dominant than last time out.
Tir McDohl-2: 8.5/10? Y'know what? Same score as S1 works. In some ways he's even better (wtf S2 Black Shadow, can equip other runes), in other ways he's worse (speed, annoyance of getting him).
Hugo: 7.5/10. Gets plenty of swings at a high critical hit rate, can use a true rune. Probably the weakest of the S3 mains but still good.
Chris: 8/10. S3 defence is awesome, and she has the highest offence of any heavy armour type save Borus, and high MDef to go with it. TWR is great during the brief window exists.
Geddoe: 8/10. The weakest of the mains when true runes aren't available, the best when they are. Although has to watch out for lightning spoiling of course. Just all-around solid.
Sasarai: 5/10. True Earth's attack spells lack any real use, but lots of shots of Canopy Defence help out in the final battle even though his durability does him no favours.
Luc-3: DNR. Luc chapters feature a lack of real fights generally.
Yuber: DNR.
Lazlo: 6.5/10. I dunno. His overall stats are decent but less good than most of his type (HP's the only standout), his unique rune is pretty trashy. Eternal Ordeal's domination of a stretch of the earlygame is the main reason he's this high.
Ted-4: 8/10. That damage is just insane on the S2 damage scale. A bit limited, though, and he lacks the instant death.
Freyjadour: 7/10. Reminds me of Riou a bit, but he's slightly worse: no RH rune slot hurts in a few places (such as locking out Magic Absorb), and his speed could be a bit better.
Lyon: 7.5/10. Lyon kinda lacks the two main problems Freyjadour has. The speed/power make her good for a while early, then she starts to fall off... then leaves. Then is pretty much uber in most ways endgame.
Zerase: 9/10. Y'know what? Yeah, I think she does break the game more than any of the other true rune users. Horrific GT/MT death off great speed and crazy numbers of spell charges. Probably one of the two best PCs in the game if you don't twink at all remains one of the best if you twink like crazy due to eternally powering her fast magical doom with Magic Absorb.
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Grandia 2:
Ryudo: The game's whatever boy. 4/10
Elena: Nightmare Ball's enough for a 6/10, sure.
Millenia: Overall pretty great. 8/10
Roan: He's alright enough when he's around. 5/10
Mareg: Not very good. 2/10
Tio: Good but didn't really feel like an 8. 7/10
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: Well having his rune slot occupied hurts him about as much as someone with good stats can be hurt by forced Soul Eater. Which is to say not much. 8.5/10
Ted-1: boo temp that sticks around for like zero time. DNR
Luc-1: Well he's a douchebag but he's still an alright PC. 6/10
Riou: Pretty versatile, Bright Shield's not too bad to have forced, really. 7.5/10
Jowy Atreides: Abstain
Luc-2: Still a douchebag, still an alright PC. 6/10
Tir McDohl-2: Abstain
-
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 5/10 - Feels like a textbook average main to me.
Elena: 6.5/10 - Being a good mage/healer/Nightmare ball feels like a 6.5 here.
Millenia: 8.5/10 - Awesome, availability hurts a bit, though she's around for bosses and is a pretty awesome boss-fighter.
Roan: 5/10 - Slightly better than Ryudo, but less availability, evens out here.
Mareg: 2/10 - Meh tank.
Tio: 8/10 - Speed Speed Speed breaks G2 harder than it already breaks itself.
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters: Best ranking present ever~
Tir McDohl-1: 9/10 - Breakin' the game~
Ted-1: 4/10 - lots of good going for him while he's around, but...
Luc-1: 6/10 - Compared to the rest of the scrubs, he's got good availability and Magic. Also awesome in war battles.
Riou: 7.5/10 - Hey look, a good main, but actually kinda balanced b/c S2 tried to do that.
Jowy Atreides: 6/10 I guess
Luc-2: 6.5/10
Tir McDohl-2: 8.5/10 - Break the game, but lots of hassle to get him.
Hugo: 7.5/10 - Availability, Magic stat, starts with good runes, Speed! All the things a solid Suikomain needs! Option of all three True runes!
Chris: 8/10 - Not a standard Suikomain, but one of the best tanks. Phoenix Rune is a good finisher, especially early on when options are low.
Geddoe: 8.5/10 - Magic Smash, decent Physical Smash/Durability. Probably the best combination of the main 3?
Sasarai: 7/10 - Best Mage in the main game, but such a late joiner, it hardly matters...
Luc-3: 5.5/10 - Sure he's awesome, but during his section of the game, he's just average due to being with Sarah and
Yuber: 5/10 - Just average in their section. Too bad that they couldn't be used main game.
Lazlo: 7/10 - Lots of meh characters in S4, and Lazlo is the only one who can use the team Rush ability.
Ted-4: 8.5/10 - Break break break~
Freyjadour: 7/10 - Average for a Suikomain.
Lyon: 8/10 - So many ways to break S5, but Lyon's a good one. Too bad about that stretch of availability where she's recovering in a bed.
Zerase: 9/10 - Break break break!
-
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 5/10. Ryudo's fine.
Elena: 5/10. Good specials, bad stats. (Seriously, compare endgame Elena to Roan. He has better stats *everywhere*, including Magic.)
Millenia: 8/10. Broken abilities, mildly suspect durability doesn't matter in G2. Gains minor points for the fact that your average "challenge" runthrough makes Millenia even better, since she has no choice but to gain said broken abilities.
Roan: 5/10. Roan1 is a 4/10, Roan2 is a 6/10.
Mareg: 3/10. Warm body in a game where you don't have party choice, and it's not like he's terrible, just the Grandia system rewards speed.
Tio: 8/10. Instant Line Cancel off good speed? What. Is fine outside of that too.
Hugo: 7/10. Relying on dodge means there's more room for things to go horribly wrong, but still pretty good.
Chris: 8/10. Tanks like a champ. Totally defeated the Water Rincar with Chris / Nash solo once IIRC.
Geddoe: 7/10. Good mage.
Sasarai: 7/10? Strong but you have him for the final battle and that's almost it.
Luc-3: DNR.
Yuber: DNR.
Freyjadour: 7/10.
Lyon: 7/10.
Zerase: 8/10.
I think we bothered doing a full ranking of Suiko V in-game in the last topic, and from hype I apparently didn't uber my team very well, and it didn't matter at all as Suiko V makes you feel like you've ubered your team no matter what. Pick whatever selection of characters you want and watch things explode. As such, apathy.
-
Hm, are Roan2's stats that much better relatively than Roan1's? The main thing I remember is that Roan2 loses Snowball Fight, which was probably his best SP move, in favour of some useless singletarget tech (Ice Prison?).
-
I doubt there's any statisical difference, but he does have King's Pride, which is more effective than the storebought booster at increasing tech damage. Not sure that's worth 2.
-
I've forgotten the details. It's mostly that I recall Roan1 being okay but worse than Ryudo, while Roan2 had weirdly good stats at everything and was the best mage (at least when Elena was in the party not Millenia). If I felt vaguely threatened by endgame randoms he could blow them up with magic, pretty much, and True Dragon Rise / more magic was fine for bosses. So steady offense of all types compromised slightly by suspect durability but who cares this is Grandia II.
...which reminds me, I should totally do a challenge replay of G2, if I can find my copy of the PC version that I won for free. G2's difficulty curve is such that I think an initial equipment / refuse to spend skill / magic coins playthrough might well be viable, if requiring a wee bit of leveling toward the end. I know that you can at least deal with the first third of the game as such.
-
I remember Roan having the best magic outside Millenia earlygame too. Honestly, I remember having a higher opinion of Roan1 because he doesn't compete with Tio, who has almost as high magic and considerably better speed.
Although Roan1 is kinda crappy when he first joins IIRC, but by the time he left I don't seem to recall having any doubt that he was better than Ryudo. He has less physical damage but better magical damage, and the latter is worth more.
I know that you can at least deal with the first third of the game as such.
Well it's not like any of Grandia 2 past the first third is actually worth playing anyway. </rimshot>
-
Hey, Millenia keeps showing up until at least the halfway mark!
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 5/10. I admit, I want to give him higher, but because I never use Impact Bomb so Tenseiken Slash is rather inflated in a typical playthrough >.>
Elena: 5/10. Elena's magic score actually sucks! Anyway, she can rush to an MT move quick-like if you want, otherwise not really different from Ryudo.
Millenia: 7/10. Hello best move set. Goodbye best move set.
Roan: 6/10.
Mareg: 4/10
Tio: 7/10. Lotus Blossom being her only worthwhile move is a pity, but hey stats.
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: 8/10. There's some definite lag in the Soul Eater. Deadly Fingertips is your only move for a long time, and you get Black Shadow slightly after it's good damage. Tir'd be much better in a suikoden where he could equip a backup rune for bosses.
Ted-1: DNR
Luc-1: 6/10.
Riou: 7/10. Well balanced, but there's definitely better characters in the game.
Jowy Atreides: 6/10. I think he'd be the best character in the game if you kept him, naturally.
Luc-2: 7/10. Thanks to affinities, Luc's damage is actually better than fighter-mages rather than just having a couple gratuitous MP. Still, there's some competition for his position.
Tir McDohl-2: 8/10. The point he won for starting with all hsi spells and being able to equip another rune is lost due to the stupid recruitment scenario.
Hugo: 7/10. I guess Hugo never really gets a chance to shine. He takes a while to get his skills rolling, the endgame likes to punish dodge-whores, and he's always going to be stuck with a rune he's not very good with.
Chris: 8/10. Tanky healers are always good meanwhile.
Geddoe: 8/10. Electric death mage. If you could ever USE him with the TLR I'd consider bumping him a point, or if making him the FC didn't make the TLR useless, but so goes.
Sasarai: 5/10. He's alright.
Luc-3: DNR
Yuber: DNR
Lazlo: 6/10. There's definitely points Punishment is good, and the stats aren't bad, just... anyway.
Ted-4: 8/10. I'll never understand why they turned the ID spells into pansy ass parasitic healing. Hades is like the worst True Rune spell in the series.
Freyjadour: 6/10. There's definitely points Punishment Dawn is good, and the stats aren't bad, just... anyway.
Lyon: 7/10. Reminiscent of Riou in overall build. can float a physical or magical build and the other stats are quite solid.
Zerase: 8/10. Hmm. even among the ready-built characters Zerase has a little too much competition to rate a 9 I think.
-
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 6/10. Yeah, he's not BAD or anything, but he lacks anything that really makes him stand out.
Elena: 6.5/10. Similar to Ryudo, though I guess more MP for magic is a plus, even with game worst Int.
Millenia: 8/10. Good early game, amazing after that...except that she's often not around to the point where I can only give her so much.
Roan: 5/10. Remember him just being a worse Ryudo overall, and is not around much.
Mareg: 4/10. Yeah, sort of just a warm body when he's around. His turns aren't a total waste or anything, but man does he lack anything careworthy in terms of decency.
Tio: 8/10. Lotus Flower is just that damned good.
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: 9/10. I win Rune. Yeah, ok, so he lacks damage with it pre-Black Shadow, but during that stretch your MP is so low that you're doing a lot of damage via physicals anyway, and he's still a hell of a magic tank with decent physical durability.
Ted-1: DNR. Exists just for some early game shenanigans that are too easy to care.
Luc-1: 6/10. Good mage but even he can run out of resources and he's completely useless in randoms once he does.
Riou: 7.5/10. Healing, Buddy ATtack for early game stuff, good stats overall, in a game where rune slots can help cover his flaws...yet he still never felt quite Tir's level.
Jowy Atreides: 6/10. Buddy Attack for when he's around, rune is decent but outside of Piercing One it feels replaceable early on, and he's not around later to make you care about Hungry Friend. Availability means this is the best he'll get.
Luc-2: 7/10. Luc 1, except in a game where the damage advantage is more notable due to Rune affinities, but physicals aren't a total loss.
Tir McDohl-2: 7/10. He's...arguably better than he was in Suikoden 1...just doesn't exist for half the game, and is a pain in the ass to recruit every time your party disbands, so yeah. this is the best he'll get.
Hugo: 7/10. Solid overall.
Chris: 7.5/10. Tank w/ good damage. I'd hype the healing more if, you know, she actually got to use the True Water Rune for a notable stretch of the game, and she's awful wtih the True Fire Rune.
Geddoe: 8/10. Worst Main pre-True Runes, best post? Yeah, I'll buy that, he also gets his True Rune notably before the other two regardless of path, and dear god is True Lightning wrong.
Sasarai: 5/10. You know, on paper, he should be a good solid mage...especially with True Earth...oh wait, he joins AT THE VERY END OF THE GAME and the only opponent left flies. He still makes a good user of Flowing Rune and Canopy Defense isn't bad, I guess.
Luc-3: DNR. Luc's quest really doesn't count.
Yuber: DNR. See Luc.
Lazlo: 6.5/10. Eternal Ordeal is good, Double Sword Attack is nice with Kika, and the whole "only character who can use the big awesome limit unite move" thing is nice. Yeah, really wishes there was more to say about his True Rune other than "Decent Level 1". Everlasting Mercy is good I guess if worse than Shining Wind in every-way that matters.
Ted-4: 8/10. So...you know Suiko 2 Luc? Take him, give him more HP, physical that isn't complete garbage, and a "WHAT THE FUCK?" Rune, and you have Ted. If he joined earlier, I'd be giving him higher.
Freyjadour: 6.5/10. Rune has issues early on, but he has physical twinking to make up for it at least. Yeah, feels similar to Lazlo so same score.
Lyon: 7/10. Good early, slowly gets worse to the point of being kind of unimpressive, disappears, rejoins, and is completely awesome when she does...yeah, 7/10 works.
Zerase: 9/10. Fast, nukes things, is in a game that lets her recharge her magic points easily? Yeah...
-
Hey, Millenia keeps showing up until at least the halfway mark!
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 5/10. I admit, I want to give him higher, but because I never use Impact Bomb so Tenseiken Slash is rather inflated in a typical playthrough >.>
Elena: 5/10. Elena's magic score actually sucks! Anyway, she can rush to an MT move quick-like if you want, otherwise not really different from Ryudo.
Millenia: 7/10. Hello best move set. Goodbye best move set.
Roan: 6/10.
Mareg: 4/10
Tio: 7/10. Lotus Blossom being her only worthwhile move is a pity, but hey stats.
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: 8.5/10.
Ted-1: DNR
Luc-1: 5/10.
Riou: 7/10.
Jowy Atreides: 6/10.
Luc-2: 5/10.
Tir McDohl-2: DNR
Hugo: 7/10.
Chris: 8/10.
Geddoe: 8.5/10.
Sasarai: 3/10.
Luc-3: DNR
Yuber: DNR
Lazlo: 5/10.
Ted-4: 8/10.
Freyjadour: 6.5/10.
Lyon: 7/10.
Zerase: 9/10.
-
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 5/10
Elena: 6/10
Millenia: 8/10
Roan: 5.5/10
Mareg: 4/10
Tio: 8/10
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Lazlo: 7/10
Ted-4: 8.5/10
Freyjadour: 7.5/10
Lyon: 8/10
Zerase: 8.5/10
-
Grandia 2
Ryudo: 4/10. Whatever boy - sub-Elena at magic, and that's not a good thing. His skills are otherwise unimpressive as well.
Elena: 6/10. Below average magic! But goddamn Nightmare Ball rules.
Millenia: 8/10. Availability costs her half a point, but otherwise golden. Game-best magic and cool skills too.
Roan: 5/10. He's the best non-Millenia mage, but his skills otherwise kinda suck, especially late. Average works, I guess.
Mareg: 3/10. Emphasizing physicals and durability in Grandia 2, great idea.
Tio: 8/10. Best mage for most of the game, best speed and MT cancelling. This is how you rule the game.
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters
Tir McDohl-1: 8.5/10. The score works, sure. The lag period is pretty noticeable, but he's otherwise amazing.
Ted-1: DNR.
Luc-1: 6/10. Magic being the god stat just makes Luc so much more viable, especially considering the sheer level of scrubbiness floating around S1.
Riou: 8/10. No single poor stat, has twinkability on both physical and magical ends at a reasonable time and has a very solid unique Rune? Just covers all bases.
Jowy Atreides: 7/10. He leaves before he starts getting -notably- good, but he's always very solid when he's around. Were he available for the whole game, he'd probably be among the top five PCs.
Luc-2: 7/10. While magic isn't as dominating in S2, it's still likely the most efficient way to go in S2, and Luc's affinities are so good that he'll always have something solid for both crowd control and bosses for the whole game. Durability is problematic, but he's fine.
Tir McDohl-2: 8/10. Availability and stupid regarding having to get him back dock half a point there.
Hugo: 7.5/10. The worst main, needing some time to come into his own, and always being stuck with a Rune that doesn't suit him very well. However, he has a great mix of stats and skills and he's still finely twinkable.
Chris: 8/10. Low twinkability, but the durability is amazing and she has very solid offense for most of the game. The ten seconds you get TWR are also fun stuff.
Geddoe: 8.5/10. Honestly feel Geddoe and Chris are roughly in the same ballpark in theory, but I gave that extra half-point to Geddoe due to him also making the strongest Flame Champion. TLR is the TR you get to use the most, too. Less impressive at base than Chris, though.
Sasarai: 6/10. Great, great mage, but you get his True Rune for like one fight and S3 mages need a bit of work anyway.
Luc-3: DNR.
Yuber: DNR.
Lazlo: 6.5/10. He's okay, but really doesn't really impress. A few unique tricks, a solid unite and uh a solid L1 on the True Rune. But eeeeeeeeh.
Ted-4: 8.5/10. Ridiculous damage with Judgment and Black Shadow >>>>>>>>>>>> randoms in S4 like little else (that 400 damage figure, which is even below the DL average, doesn't really note how frail S4 randoms are, does it?). The parasitic healing replacing the ID could be a point against, but it's honestly so -academic-, and the L3 also functions as crowd control. And Ted's even fast, which pretty much closes the deal.
Freyjadour: 7/10. Honestly feels better than Lazlo, mainly because it feels like, even though his Rune has -issues-, his bases for twinking are notably superior. And, like Riou, he does well both as a physicaller and a mage in a game where both are viable. Could be faster, but oh well.
Lyon: 7/10. She starts great and steadily decreases... until she gets taken away for a long time. Then, when she returns, she's uber. 7/10 works for me.
Zerase: 9/10. Mauls things for the whole game and has infinite resources with startling ease. Zerase is likely one of the PCs who mauls the game the most with the least effort. Even Miakis needs more work (though she mangles the game a bit more). Yeah, works out.
-
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 6/10
Elena: 6/10
Millenia: 7/10
Roan: 4/10
Mareg: 3/10
Tio: 6.5/10
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: 8/10
Ted-1: DNR
Luc-1: 4/10.
Riou: 7.5/10
Jowy Atreides: DNR
Luc-2: 8/10
Tir McDohl-2: 8.5
Hugo: 7.5/10
Chris: 8/10
Geddoe: 9/10
Sasarai: 4/10
Luc-3: DNR
Yuber: DNR
Lazlo: 5/10
Ted-4: 8.5/10
Freyjadour: 7/10
Lyon: 5/10
Zerase: 8.5
-
Grandia 2:
Ryudo: 4.95
Elena: 5.80
Millenia: 7.80
Roan: 5.15
Mareg: 3.15
Tio: 7.50
Suikoden True Runes and Ilk Characters:
Tir McDohl-1: 8.50
Ted-1: N/A
Luc-1: 5.63
Riou: 7.44
Jowy Atreides: 6.33
Luc-2: 6.63
Tir McDohl-2: 8.08
Hugo: 7.24
Chris Lightfellow: 7.94
Geddoe: 8.19
Sasarai: 5.25
Luc-3: N/A
Yuber: N/A
Lazlo: 6.19
Ted-4: 8.25
Freyjadour: 6.83
Lyon: 7.06
Zerase: 8.67
Best Rating of this session: Zerase w/ 8.67
Worst Rating of this session: Mareg w/ 3.15
Ted-1, Luc-3 and Yuber are all BOOTED due to DNRs and all that.
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
17. Squid (FFT) 1.25
18t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
18t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
20. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
MOVING ON!
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
chaos:
Jin Uzuki:
Gaignum Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.:
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8:
MOMO:
Shion Uzuki:
KOS MOS:
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo:
Gremio:
Pahn:
Viktor-1:
Odessa:
Flik-1:
Nanami:
Bolgan:
Eilie:
Rina:
Flik-2:
Viktor-2:
Thomas:
Cecille:
Juan:
Piccolo:
Snowe:
Keneth:
Tal:
Jewel:
Paula:
Georg:
Sialeeds:
Miakis:
Galleon:
Kyle:
...yeah, for Suiko 3, just to make this rating not BIG AS HELL, I relegated it purely to Thomas and Co. And yes, some of these character choices are arbitrary but shut up you smell!
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
Like hell I remember the individual characters in this game.
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 6/10. Generically solid.
Gremio: 3/10.
Pahn: 3/10.
Viktor-1: 2/10. Urghle.
Odessa: DNR.
Flik-1: 7/10. Feels a cut above the other fighter mages (shield, mostly), which is good since you have to use him.
Nanami: 4/10. Pure physical doesn't work well with girls, buuut she's a great Spark Rune carrier at least.
Bolgan: 3/10. Gets the job done when you have to use him, I guess.
Eilie: 4/10. She has set ups just not... good ones.
Rina: 4/10. Anyways.
Flik-2: 6/10.
Viktor-2: 4/10. He hits stuff, Fire Emblems keep him up to par when you gotta use him.
Thomas: 3/10. His Unite with Cecille keeps them solid during his own chapters but there's just no reason to use him otherwise.
Cecille: 4/10. Better tanks exist.
Juan: 7/10. Risk/reward kinda character. Highest damage potential, but working around the waking rune makes him sorta vulnerable.
Piccolo: 5/10. The other high end mages are more flexible, but he's not bad.
Snowe: 3/10. Suikoden IV skewed back to Suikoden 1 levels of magic favortism.
Keneth: 6/10.
Tal: 3/10.
Jewel: 4/10. Hey, there's something to be said for a free water rune in the very early going?
Paula: 5/10? Yeah sure.
Georg: 6/10. Loses a point for the horrific cockteasing.
Sialeeds: 4/10.
Miakis: 7/10.
Galleon: 3/10.
Kyle: 4/10.
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose
chaos: 3/10. It's useful to have an element consistently attached to your damage in XS2 (less setup time in general, lets you actually build element levels before you get sabers), but it's also a problem when the element's walled, since natural elements can't be overriden in XS2. To make matters worse, chaos' stat spread is just all wrong in practice, sporting unimpressive durability, offense and speed all around. His second-best Ether stat is completely wasted given his attacks run off his shoddy Attack and XS2 offensive magic utterly blows. Not being able to hit aired enemies ain't good news either. I guess he has the stats to make a solid support PC, but MOMO covers that niche better anyway while doing so much more.
Jin Uzuki: 4.5/10. Being able to air enemies is a nice niche (Airing >>>>>> downing enemies outside very specific fights due to disabling counter-boosting, for starters), but he's more or less restricted to Slash element and his Attack stat isn't so hot. Durability isn't bad, at least, and speed doesn't offend.
Gaignun Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.: 6.5/10. Ranged, piercing physicals and solid evade+offense stats = not bad at all. Not amazing, but it'd take like XS3 for Jr. to turn into a 7/10+ PC anyway. >_> Also, it's actually kind of a noticeable deal being the one ranged PC to be able to Break.
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8: 4/10. Better than chaos due to the insane durability difference and noticeable offense superiority. However, speed is awful and being unable to hit aired enemies still is a big deal. And, of course, the double-edged sword that is having a magical element attached to your offense. More workable than chaos anyway due to having a better element and actual offense, though.
MOMO: 8/10. Only so high a character in XS2 can go, but MOMO is kinda nuts anyway. Ranged, piercing magical damage running off game-best speed and Ether? And game-best evade in a game where dodging is -always- a useful durability stat and eventually turns into the best defensive number? Yeah, just great stuff.
Shion Uzuki: 5.5/10. Gains an above average score for the utter mangling of the aftergame she does. Beforehand, stats are all over the place and her damage chain is -infuriating-, for all that it has its uses at the right times. Also a bit of credit for being your only other mage in practice (nkjltrnklhjfdlçkodf screw you chaos offense split).
KOS MOS: 6/10. Durable, has multiple physical elements and very solid offense. Airing enemies is also good stuff. The Ziggy-level speed does her no favors, though.
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 8/10. Just... does everything right. Fast mage with ranged physicals and non-fail durability is -the- way to go in Suikoden 1. Not amazing like Tir, but she does good with that Fire Rune Leknaat hands you and just improves.
Gremio: 3/10. Scrub. Really annoying to have forced. On the other hand, the physical -could- be worse and he's less of an embarrassment than Viktor is.
Pahn: 4/10. Physical fighters in S1 don't really work, but Pahn isn't -that- bad.
Viktor-1: 2/10. Fails. He's not great in the early game and just turns into a complete loser due to not getting any more relevant stats ever. And don't even let me get started on the egregious accuracy failures.
Odessa: DNR. She'd be a total 9/10 if she stayed the whole game, though. The stat spread is wtfffffffffffffffffffffff.
Flik-1: 7/10. Tanky mage! His availability is sketchy, though, and his magic isn't as high as I'd like. Still, good niche.
Nanami: 5/10. Spark Rune carrier and speed means her physical game isn't -too- lost. Two rune slots gained early and mid-range physical also go a bit of a way.
Bolgan: 3/10. Uh usable when you have to, I guess.
Eilie: 5/10. She's actually not bad. Ranged physicals and a B in Fire gets you places.
Rina: 6/10. Stats aren't amazing but she's a pretty viable twink PC on both ends, having veritable magic -and- a passable long-range physical. Early three rune slots help there.
Flik-2: 6/10. Not as tanky and not as good a mage. Solid anyway.
Viktor-2: 4/10. Actually workable! Still nothing amazing.
Thomas: 3/10. I kinda agree with CK. To make matters worse, Thomas is a ridiculously investment-heavy PC with an inordinate amount of A+ skills. That's just too much work for someone that offensively inept.
Cecille: 5/10. Fairly useful when you need her. There are better tanks, but I feel you need Cecile the most out of those forced tanks during the earlier chapters.
Juan: 7.5/10. I'd dock him half a point due to having to circumvent the Waking Rune issue, but it's so academic if you have a bit of knowledge on the game. Mel's Turtle Tunic early solves that problem and Watari's Yellow Scarf when you leave Thomas storyline fixes the issue for the rest of the game. -That said-, Juan still needs a bit of work to get going, so he doesn't get an 8. Still, nice smashing of shit.
Piccolo: 3/10. S3 mages need work and Piccolo starts out downright -awful-. The A+ is a downside rather than an up for most of the game. Later on, he's still one of the frailest mages and there are plenty of more flexible characters that can get an S in Lightning.
Snowe: 3/10. Gremio stats and unavailable for 3/4 of the game. At least he doesn't get forced on you half the time.
Keneth: 5/10. Starts with a Lightning Rune, but eh. Pretty average.
Tal: 3/10. Why use him? S4 Earth Rune is complete trash.
Jewel: 4/10. Early Water Rune, I guess.
Paula: 5/10. Early Wind Rune? These guys are just kinda academic anyway.
Georg: 6.5/10. I don't care about horrific cockteasing, but Georg is a great physical fighter that takes very little effort to be good. Problem is that his crowd control isn't that great (glowing replacing swings is bad for randombusting) and his availability has issues -anyway-.
Sialeeds: 4/10. The magic stat is pretty amazing, but the other stats are kinda junky. Serviceable, but I wouldn't use her for prolonged periods.
Miakis: 9/10. Good no matter how you build her. Miakis has great magic, three free rune slots available before anyone else besides pure mages and sports all the right stats for game-best physical twinkery. She does take a little bit of effort to work into that steamroller, but her physical offense is ultimately unmatched and getting that mag+free right hand means she's in for top-tier magery too - oh and good equipment too. Just too good.
Galleon: 3/10. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew pure tank in suikoden 5
Kyle: 5/10. Makes a solid mage, I guess? Physical isn't hopeless either.
-
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: Boom. 8/10.
Gremio: hahaha no. 3/10.
Pahn: Meh. 3.5/10.
Viktor-1: Garbage. 2/10.
Odessa: DNR
Flik-1: Very solid. 7/10.
Nanami: Meh. 4/10.
Bolgan: Why bother unless you have to. 3/10.
Eilie: Okay but only that. 5/10.
Rina: Solid enough. 6/10.
Flik-2: Also solid enough. 6/10.
Viktor-2: Meh. 4/10.
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
chaos: 3/10. He has theoretical use involving his #2 magic stat, but it tends not to pan out in practice much. Innate spirit helps for a few randoms.
Jin Uzuki: 3.5/10. Quite badly outclassed by KOS-MOS and there's little reason to use both. Again, has a slight edge over her in randoms (slash element damage while enemies are grounded) but overall, eh.
Gaignum Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.: 6/10. Piercing damage is a good element, he can break even if he can't air/down, generally better stats than Jin.
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8: 6/10. Really really good if you want to do physical damage or fire, or the chains you have planned don't suffer from those. However, forced element does make him useless sometimes.
MOMO: 8/10. Well we all know the story. Game-best magic, great element, so she smashes things and is more durable than you'd expect. Also speed/MP make her the best support character even if she weren't good at killing things.
Shion Uzuki: 4.5/10. While she's obviously great in the aftergame, maingame the chain really screws her up sometimes. However, there are a good number of mec enemies very weak to lightning, beam, and magic, and she at least shines against those even if she should be laughed out of most boss fights.
KOS MOS: 7/10. You need someone to air/down enemies. Obviously Ziggy's a good man for that sometimes, but too often he isn't, and then your choice is to either use KOS or the vastly inferior Jin. Even when you're using Ziggy, KOS is generally a better Jr. thanks to that strength/HP. So yeah, second best PC.
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 7.5/10. Great magic and speed, decent physical and durability! Yeah, no weaknesses here. Not sure it's an 8 since she doesn't actively stand out, but she's good.
Gremio: 2/10. Okay early on with the Talisman unite, LVP after Pahn leaves, descends into "just awful" as his post-L20 strength growth kicks in. I guess Talisman saves him from that 1.
Pahn: 4/10. The better side of the Talisman unite, and in general uh... kinda decent for a S1 fighter without a broken rune. But that's not good enough.
Viktor-1: 3/10. High HP helps some midgame, and Clone Rune can mitigate his horrid hit while keeping his decent power, but overall, bleh.
Odessa: DNR. Good though.
Flik-1: 7/10. Almost a Cleo clone; she has more magic (and is L-range) and he has more strength and otherwise they're basically identical. She wins that clearly enough, but not by a huge margin or anything.
Nanami: 5/10. Spark Rune and reasonable overall stats makes her quite workable, but she's nothing special.
Bolgan: 2.5/10. I probably need to look at him more closely but I remember him being quite underwhelming.
Eilie: 4.5/10. Feels a bit overall underwhelming, magic needed to be higher. B fire is something.
Rina: 6.5/10. One of the first PCs to hit three rune slots, and decent magic. I generally didn't find S2 physical twink runes so easy to come by to rate this as highly as one could, but she still deserves some respect even if she lacks any worthwhile A/B affinities.
Flik-2: 6.5/10. Again, pretty decent all-around. Stats are lower than in S1, but at least he got a B in lightning.
Viktor-2: 4/10. Has power I guess.
Thomas: 2.5/10. Okay in his own chapters, useless garbage outside them.
Cecille: 5/10. Outright good in her own chapters, useless outside them (one of the worst tank-types even after she catches up).
Juan: 7.5/10. Status immunity isn't too hard to get, you can even snag it in Thomas' own chapters if you're crafty. Still a bit of a slower starter, but so much smash.
Piccolo: 3/10. See Thomas, although he's a bit better all-around despite being a pure mage in S3.
Snowe: 3/10. Well he's better than Gremio or something.
Keneth: 6/10. Lightning shenanigans are decent.
Tal: 3/10. Physicals and the earth rune don't really cut it when you don't even have speed.
Jewel: 4/10. Lots of better choices for her role.
Paula: 6/10. Decent mage but not exceptional, and wind isn't the most useful affinity.
Georg: 7.5/10. Georg is great. He'd hilariously be worse if you could use him for the final fight, or if there wasn't a three-part dungeon before the final so your using him would hurt your Exp. Otherwise, the best physical fighter before twinking and holds up admirably after.
Sialeeds: 2/10. Yeah, she... starts out as like a 4, sure. Game-worst PC by the time she leaves, though. No free rune slots whatsoever, Wind ain't cuttin' it.
Miakis: 8.5/10. I think everyone knows the story here, first PC to three rune slots + good speed + good magic + good base physical + above average durability. Does everything, and unmatched at the midgame physical destruction.
Galleon: 3.5/10. One of the better tanks in S5, while Cecile is one of the worst in S3! I'll let you guys decide what it says that the latter is clearly the better PC.
Kyle: 6/10. Flik type, but the speed holds the mix back a bit.
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
chaos: 2/10
Jin Uzuki: 3/10
Gaignum Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.: 7/10
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8: 6/10
MOMO: 8.5/10
Shion Uzuki: 3/10
KOS MOS: 7.5/10
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 7/10
Gremio: 1.5/10
Pahn: 3/10
Viktor-1: 2/10
Odessa: DNR
Flik-1: 7.5/10
Nanami: 4/10
Bolgan: Abstain
Eilie: 4/10
Rina: 7/10
Flik-2: 5.5/10
Viktor-2: 5/10
Thomas: 3/10
Cecille: 3.5/10
Juan: 6/10
Piccolo: 3/10
Snowe: 3/10
Keneth: 6/10
Tal: 3/10
Jewel: 4/10
Paula: 4/10
Georg: 7.5/10
Sialeeds: 2/10
Miakis: 8/10
Galleon: 3/10
Kyle: 7/10
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
chaos: 2.5/10 - Point for high magic stat.
Jin Uzuki: 3/10 - Redundant but workable.
Gaignum Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.: 7/10 - Yay
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8: 6/10 - Yay
MOMO: 8.5/10 - Super Yay
Shion Uzuki: 3.5/10 - Usable on randoms
KOS MOS: 7.5/10 - Yay
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 7/10
Gremio: 2/10
Pahn: 3/10
Viktor-1: 2/10
Odessa: 6/10 - Great for when you have her!
Flik-1: 7.5/10
Nanami: 6/10 - Points for being workable and good availability when there aren't a lot of options. The few times she's not available, it's not hurting you.
Bolgan: 3/10 - Underwhelming even among the early options!
Eilie: 4.5/10 - Good warm body when you need them!
Rina: 7/10 - Yay
Flik-2: 5.5/10
Viktor-2: 5/10
Thomas: 3/10 - I'm still amused by the fact that he starts out with one HP for every year he's been alive.
Cecille: 5.5/10 - Found her more useful outside of her chapters than Elf did, I guess.
Juan: 7/10 - Breaking the Thomas chapters alone would get him this score. Being good outside of it against S3's cast is pretty awesome.
Piccolo: 3/10
Snowe: 3/10
Keneth: 6/10
Tal: 3/10
Jewel: 4/10
Paula: 5/10
Georg: 7/10 - What a tease
Sialeeds: 3/10 - Terrible, but a good warm body early on. Loses a point for being forced when she's terrible.
Miakis: 9/10 - Breakin' the game~
Galleon: 3/10
Kyle: 7/10 - Defending girls is cool.
-
Cleo: 7/10. Decent stats and magic. Good enough support.
Gremio: 3/10. His stats are a fucking travesty.
Pahn: 5/10. Serviceable.
Viktor-1: 4/10. Suikoden 1 was not a kind game to Victor.
Odessa: DNR.
Flik-1: 6/10. Solid character.
Nanami: 5/10. You can make her useful.
Bolgan: 2/10. Junk.
Eilie: 3/10. Okay but so easily overshadowed.
Rina: 4/10. See Eilie.
Flik-2: 7/10. Generally useful and pulls his own weight. Shame he never gets a third rune slot.
Viktor-2: 6/10. Pulls his weight though he's nothing stunning. A second rune slot saves him from mediocrity.
Thomas: 5/10.
Cecille: 4/10.
Juan: 5/10.
Piccolo: 3/10.
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
chaos: 3/10. Passable but unspecial. Exists to hit an element you don't exploit enough.
Jin Uzuki: 5/10. Can hit air targets and cause aerial status. Its something, I guess.
Gaignum Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.: 6/10. Piercing was an important element from my recollection.
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8: 4/10. chaos with better damage. HP and different element...yeah, I'll give him a point.
MOMO: 8/10. Game best character? Game best character. Thing is, the team oriented nature of XS2 means I can't give her TOO high (and likewise, no one can be too low) so yeah.
Shion Uzuki: 4/10. Hits ether defense and can hit aerial targets! Unfortunately, that Beam element in the middle of her combo hurts her damage and is quite annoying, and she's not exactly durable.
KOS MOS: 6.5/10. Better Jin.
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 8/10. SUIKODEN 1! THE GAME OF FIGHTER MAGES!
Gremio: 2/10. Sucks. Bad magic, strength is garbage and the weapon doesn't make up for it, and he's constantly forced. What COULD have saved him was the Talisman unite, except Pahn's gone for too long of the early game where Pahn would be useful, and Pahn sucks as a long term investment.
Pahn: 2.5/10. Gremio except has at least SOME stats so isn't a complete wash. This isn't exactly a very strong compliment though...
Viktor-1: 3/10. He has massive HP early game, and his magic defense isn't as bad as Pahn's! the Low Skill hurts a lot but clone rune kind of makes up for it...kind of...yeah, he's pretty bad.
Odessa: DNR. She's awesome when you have her, but when you have her barely lasts.
Flik-1: 7.5/10. SUIKODEN 1! THE GAME OF FIGHTER MAGES! Loses half a point relative to Cleo due to an S-Range Weapon meaning he has to be in the front (albeit, he has the stats to justify that position), hurting team flexibility a tad, and less availability.
Nanami: 6/10. Good Spark Rune user and her stats are just adequate enough to make her not a complete waste of a slot otherwise.
Bolgan: 3/10. He's just kind of there, you know.
Eilie: 4/10. Also kind of there, but notably more competent at that "kind of there" role or something.
Rina: 6/10. An actually good mage for a large part of the game. Better options exist, but that's why she's only a 6 and not higher.
Flik-2: 7/10. Flik's still good; not as good as his S1 Self, but hardly bad by any means.
Viktor-2: 4/10. Fighters aren't as bad in S2, and Viktor doesn't have the same stupid issues he had in the previous game. He's now just kind of underwhelming instead of bad.
Thomas: 3/10. He's kind of ok in his own chapters...which are shorter than the other chapters...oh look, the entire army joined and he's now just kind of pointless, huzzah! Hands down the worst Tenkai Star ever and such.
Cecille: 5/10. Tank with acceptable damage.
Juan: 7/10. Smash and such.
Piccolo: 3/10. Basically, Thomas' Mage equivalent or something.
Snowe: 2/10. Has a half decent unite with Lazlo, but otherwise is completely garbage.
Keneth: 6/10. In the grand scheme of things, he's Flik-lite of S4.
Tal: 4/10. While the worst of the 4, he's still better than the other early game options, and pulls his weight. Early Earth Rune helps and such.
Jewel: 6.5/10. Probably best the 4, a half decent fighter/mage who starts with nice healing.
Paula: 5/10. Just kind of competent at what she is and all that.
Georg: 7/10. Great all around fighter, but lack of availability docks him a point.
Sialeeds: 3.5/10. MEEEEEEH.
Miakis: 8/10. Excellent twink fighter and adequate mage? Yep.
Galleon: 4/10. Worst of the knights, he can tank and...not much else!
Kyle: 7/10. A more well rounded Miakis...which means worse overall cause he lacks the same SMASH value she does, but that hardly means he's bad...quite the contrary, he's still quite good.
As a side note, I am an idiot, as I didn't include Georg in S2 this round. This does confirm that he WILL be in next round just get him out of the way and all that.
-
Xenosaga 2: Jenseits von Gut und Bose:
chaos: 2.70
Jin Uzuki: 3.80
Gaignum Kukai "Rubedo" Jr.: 6.50
Ziggurat "Ziggy" 8: 5.20
MOMO: 8.20
Shion Uzuki: 4.10
KOS MOS: 6.90
Suikoden Buddies, Friends, Etc.:
Cleo: 7.31
Gremio: 2.44
Pahn: 3.50
Viktor-1: 2.50
Odessa: N/A
Flik-1: 7.06
Nanami: 4.88
Bolgan: 2.79
Eilie: 4.25
Rina: 5.81
Flik-2: 6.19
Viktor-2: 4.50
Thomas: 3.21
Cecille: 4.57
Juan: 6.64
Piccolo: 3.29
Snowe: 2.83
Keneth: 5.83
Tal: 3.17
Jewel: 4.42
Paula: 5.00
Georg Prime: 6.92
Sialeeds: 3.08
Miakis: 8.25
Galleon: 3.25
Kyle: 6
Best Rating of this session: Miakis w/ 8.25
Worst Rating of this session: Gremio w/ 2.44
Odessa is not being rated due to DNRs and such.
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
17. Squid (FFT) 1.25
18t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
18t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
20. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
Suikoden is going to be the death of me. Just saying.
Grandia 3:
Yuki:
Miranda:
Alfina:
Alonso:
Ulf:
Dahna:
Hect:
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda:
Milich Oppenheimer:
Alen:
Grenseal:
Kasim:
Sonia:
Mikolotov:
Camus:
Georg Prime-2:
Borus:
Percival:
Salome:
Leo:
Roland:
Kika:
Dario:
Sigurd:
Hervey:
Roog:
Rahal:
Flail:
Lance:
Nick:
Ax:
Georg is only put here because I was an idiot and forgot to put him in the previous session, SO NO COMPLAINTS!
-
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda: 5/10 - DEFENSE!!!
Milich Oppenheimer: 7/10 - Decent mage with a shield option.
Alen: 7/10 Comes with a Rage Rune
Grenseal: 7/10 Comes with a Thunder Rune (Oh god I hope I didn't confuse them) (Edit for NEB:) Also has good stats!
Kasim: 4/10 Kwanda minus
Sonia: 7/10 - Amazing stats, but is very late and so loses a point for that.
Mikolotov: 5/10 Decent?
Camus: 5/10 Also Decent
Georg Prime-2: 6/10 Crits?
Borus: 5/10
Percival: 5/10
Salome: 5/10
Leo: 5/10
Roland: 5/10 - Did any of them do anything spectacularly? I know Salome has a Water Rune...
-
Suikoden is going to be the death of me. Just saying.
Then... don't bother anymore? You've already hit the characters people actually care about. Skip the rest if you think you can better spend your time otherwise.
Grandia 3:
G3 was pretty balanced. Skill books & magic slots were pretty huge in determining character worth, and while physical Dahna would be weird, you could still do it with the right equips & setup. So no terribly high or low numbers.
Yuki: 6/10. The best character for tying enemies up with Flash / IP-delay physicals. Solid specials if you need damage now now now. Rarely much point to making him a mage, but could sling a spell okay when it came up.
Miranda: 5/10. Speedy, but meh damage.
Alfina: 6/10. Cheaty specials, but you couldn't exactly spam the paralysis move, and Armageddon is literally the last boss only.
Alonso: 6/10. Sadly pretty good, especially once he gets uber gear that switches him from slow to fast.
Ulf: 5/10. Best stats for sheer beating things up and tanking! But I liked Yuki's specials a bit more.
Dahna: 5/10. Magic is how you actually kill things fast without throwing huge amounts of SP at a problem, and she's invaluable for finishing off enemies tied up by the other 3. For all that that's useful, I'd rather be able to tie enemies up at all, since Dahna can get stunlocked and die quickly if the enemies are left to roam free. Specials were kind of irrelevant, too, not that they mattered much on a mage. She starts out more a 4/10 and is a 6/10 by the endgame, when you have Galactic Bang and other such nonsense.
Hect: 7/10. See Dahna, except add "cheaty specials of doom." Line Cancel? Armageddon? Yes please.
-
Grandia 3:
I agree with Snowfire that the cast is reasonably balanced, but not to the degree he thinks.
Yuki: 5/10. Whirlwind is pretty great. He didn't impress me too much otherwise, but he's workable.
Miranda: 5/10. Clear MVP at first, kinda crappy by the time she leaves. I'll say it balances.
Alfina: 7/10. Good SP moves, high magic, surprisingly solid durability. Adds up.
Alonso: 3/10. Unlike Miranda, he's never good. Yes, those final equips give him physical stats... before you have any of the good physical skills, and he has no non-ST SP moves that I can recall.
Ulf: 4/10. The LVP, but not bad. Has the best stats, but SP moves tend to underwhelm relative to their cost, and his magic is bad.
Dahna: 6.5/10. Game-best magic is nice, and her physicals can be pretty good too! But she does have poor durability.
Hect: 7/10. Kinda like Dahna stat-wise (more extreme, which is likely a bad thing), but Crimson Shock is godly.
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Name is spelled Alen, Meeple.
Kwanda: 3/10. oh boy pure physical tanks
Milich Oppenheimer: 6.5/10. Pretty solid tanky mage.
Alen: 6.5/10. Early Rage Rune with good stats.
Grenseal: 5/10. See Alen, but with a worse rune. Too bad the game pisses on lightning, but he's good for Shell Venus.
Kasim: 3/10. Haha pure fighter.
Sonia: 7/10. Solid stats everywhere; very fast with decent magic/strength both.
Mikolotov: 4/10. Meh.
Camus: 5/10. Early Rage Rune, but he doesn't have the stats that Alen has.
Georg Prime-2: 6/10. uhhh I think. Good stats outside MDef.
Borus: 6/10. Smashes things in the face, tanks.
Percival: 7.5/10. <3 Of the game's 10 tanks, the only one who can use magic well outside TWR Chris. Slides into lots of parties well as a result.
Salome: 5/10. Acceptable as a mage who can take hits, but nothing outstanding.
Leo: 5/10. Really physically durable, but there are options for this who do more damage (although his damage is shockingly good for one swing at least).
Roland: 3/10. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Kika: 8.5/10. Stupid good. 3x damage rune off good speed yes please thanks. Even joins with weapon levels unlike 95% of the game's cast. Feels pretty obviously like the best PC in the game.
Dario: 3/10. Sucks.
Sigurd: 6/10. Decent water mage.
Hervey: 4/10. Mediocre.
Roog: 2/10. Awful.
Rahal: 3/10. Uh I guess he has magic. Needs a Gale Rune though.
Flail: 1/10. Dwaggiehorsies were just terrible. No rune slots, mediocre attack. Oh boy!
Lance: 1/10.
Nick: 4/10. Well he's not very good, though if you bother to level him up he's got really high potential! This is less bad in Suikoden than in most games, but he's still not worth it.
Ax: 1/10.
-
Grandia 3:
Yuki: 5/10
Miranda: 4/10
Alfina: 6/10
Alonso: ?
Ulf: 3/10
Dahna: 7/10
Hect: 7/10
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda: 2/10
Milich Oppenheimer: 3/10
Alan: 7/10
Grenseal: 7/10
Kasim: 3/10
Sonia: -
Miklotov: 3/10
Camus: 7/10
Georg Prime-2: 6/10
Borus: 6/10
Percival: 7/10
Salome: 4/10
Leo: 4/10
Roland: 2.5/10
Kika: 8/10
Dario: 3/10
Sigurd: 7/10
Hervey: 5/10
Roog: 2/10
Rahal: 2/10
Flail: 2/10
Lance: 2/10
Nick: 3/10
Ax: 1/10
Real winners for S5.
-
Grandia 3:
Yuki: 5 - just kinda there at first, has decent twinking potential, but IIRC his Multi-hit SP move doesn't add as many hits as Ulf's.
Miranda: 6.5 - Carries the early game.
Alfina: 7 - Might be a little higher if she didn't disappear suddenly.
Alonso: 3.5 - Warm body, though not terrible.
Ulf: 6 - Oh the physical twinking in this game is fun! And Ulf does it slightly better. I think I just favored physicals in this game over magic.
Dahna: 6 - Good magic made her my random slayer late... and that's all I remember about her.
Hect: 8 - Kill ALL the things. Only problem is that she's not around long enough.
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Name is spelled Alen, Meeple.
Kwanda: 3/10. oh boy pure physical tanks
Milich Oppenheimer: 6.5/10. Pretty solid tanky mage.
Alen: 6.5/10. Early Rage Rune with good stats.
Grenseal: 5/10. See Alen, but with a worse rune. Too bad the game pisses on lightning, but he's good for Shell Venus.
Kasim: 3/10. Haha pure fighter.
Sonia: 7/10. Solid stats everywhere; very fast with decent magic/strength both.
Mikolotov: 4/10. Meh.
Camus: 5/10. Early Rage Rune, but he doesn't have the stats that Alen has.
Georg Prime-2: 6/10. uhhh I think. Good stats outside MDef.
Borus: 6/10. Smashes things in the face, tanks.
Percival: 7.5/10. <3 Of the game's 10 tanks, the only one who can use magic well outside TWR Chris. Slides into lots of parties well as a result.
Salome: 5/10. Acceptable as a mage who can take hits, but nothing outstanding.
Leo: 5/10. Really physically durable, but there are options for this who do more damage (although his damage is shockingly good for one swing at least).
Roland: 3/10. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Kika: 8.5/10. Stupid good. 3x damage rune off good speed yes please thanks. Even joins with weapon levels unlike 95% of the game's cast. Feels pretty obviously like the best PC in the game.
Dario: 3/10. Sucks.
Sigurd: 6/10. Decent water mage.
Hervey: 4/10. Mediocre.
Roog: 2/10. Awful.
Rahal: 3/10. Uh I guess he has magic. Needs a Gale Rune though.
Flail: 1/10. Dwaggiehorsies were just terrible. No rune slots, mediocre attack. Oh boy!
Lance: 1/10.
Nick: 4/10. Well he's not very good, though if you bother to level him up he's got really high potential! This is less bad in Suikoden than in most games, but he's still not worth it.
Ax: 1/10.
-
Just noticed this topic hasn't been updated for a month! What gives? Let's ranking more characters together.
-
Grandia 3:
Yuki: 5/10
Miranda: 5/10
Alfina: 5/10
Alonso: 5/10
Ulf: 5/10
Dahna: 5/10
Hect: 5/10
Time-Stopping Power: 10/10
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda: 4/10. Not unusable, but bland and ultimately overshadowed.
Milich Oppenheimer: 4/10.
Alen: 5/10
Grenseal: 5/10
Kasim: 5/10
Sonia: 5/10
Mikolotov: 3/10
Camus: 6/10 - Rage Rune.
Georg Prime-2: 4/10
Borus: 6/10
Percival: 5/10
Salome: 4/10
Leo: 3/10
Roland: 3/10
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Grandia 3:
Yuki: 6/10. Whirlwind is awesome, pretty average otherwise.
Miranda: 6/10. Good early on, becomes middling by the time she leaves, not around long.
Alfina: 7/10. Good mage with no real huge failings.
Alonso: 3/10. really fails at first, BECOMES SORT OF MIDDLING BEFORE HE LEAVES!
Ulf: 5/10. Yuki with worse magic and no Whirlwind. AoE Cancel is cool.
Dahna: 6/10. Good Mage, but felt worse than Alfina overall
Hect: 8/10. Blows things up, and MT INSTANT CANCEL WHAT THE SHIT?
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda: 2.5/10. PURE TANK!! ...in a game where this is meaningless.
Milich Oppenheimer: 7/10. PURE TANK!!! ...who actually has a rather good magic stat which literally makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE in this game.
Alen: 6/10. Rage Rune with good stats? Yeah, sure.
Grenseal: 4/10. Alen with a worse rune.
Kasim: 2.5/10. PURE FIGHTER!!! ...without an awesome rune, next!
Sonia: 7/10. Milich with better speed and worse tanking...overall winning trade, but Milich is around notably longer, so yeah, we'll say it cancels out or something.
Mikolotov: 3/10. Meh.
Camus: 5/10. Alen-lite.
Georg Prime-2: 4/10. He's an ok fighter, but nothing special, and there are better options.
Borus: 6/10. Hits Hard and tanks well.
Percival: 7.5/10. Chris-lite. This is still really good.
Salome: 5/10. Passable mage, but nothing special.
Leo: 4/10. Massive tank, but there are others who can tank well and do other things.
Roland: 3/10. ...no.
Kika: 8/10. FALCON RUNE OF AWESOME SHUT UP ITS GOOD.
Dario: 3/10. ...no.
Sigurd: 5/10. Acceptable healer.
Hervey: 4/10. Meeeeh.
Roog: 2/10. AHAHAHAHAHAH!
Rahal: 2/10. AHAHAHAHAHAAH mk2.
Flail: 1/10. Worse than his master...that's just sad.
Lance: 1/10. ...see above.
Nick: 3/10. Ok, sure, he's worth something eventually, but its hard to give a shit about a late project recruit in a cast this big.
Ax: 1/10. Same problems as the other two.
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Grandia 3:
Yuki: 5.5. Solid. More versatile than Ulf, and better at crowd control.
Miranda: 5.5
Alfina: 7. Solid mage+restoring party SP was completely awesome. Most of her other utility SP moves were not good though.
Alonso: 3.
Ulf: 3.5. Eeh. Yeah, clear LVP. His niche didn't play out too well in game. Final move is nigh useless in game overall.
Dahna: 6. Solid mage.
Hect: 7. Good, but surprised to see people got more mileage out of the that cancel move. Cancel windows are small enough that you normally won't really be getting multiple people by using MT, and it's slower than all the other cancel moves (And also then forget about damage). Needed to not start with all moves SP moves at L1.
-
Regarding Crimson Shock, (a) enemy turns often do line up pretty well so that you can get more than one,
(b) the Revenge skill lets you use your cancel move as a counter. This is largely not very good on anyone else since you're cancelling an enemy who just acted anyway. On Hect, it's an amazing free bonus cancel which can stop you from being swarmed.
-
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda: 2/10
Milich Oppenheimer: 5/10
Alen: 6/10
Grenseal: 5/10
Kasim: 2/10
Sonia: 6/10
Mikolotov: 3/10
Camus: 5/10
Georg Prime-2: 4/10
well that was boring
Oh well, gonna post FFX/FE9 character thoughts for fun since I recently beat those. What do you mean we did these almost two years ago what are you talking about.
Tidus: Haste is pretty cool, though the rest of the package isn't much, outside of the speed. Still, Haste is worth a 7/10.
Auron: His niche against randomsmashing is the most replaceable even ignoring Kimahri's existance, go Piercing being not terribly painful to customize. Against bosses he fairs better since breaks are harder to replace but they're laggy and he doesn't get faster. Not what I'd call *bad*, per se, but did feel like the least impressive member of the non-Kimahri cast. 4/10.
Rikku: Use is one of those things that seems like it should be more useful than it ends up in practice. Aside from being what may as well be your only source of MT healing (but but PRAY), it also gets those shiny White Magic buffs, so you've got those getting tossed out at cast-best speed with a quick action. In theory. In practice it basically ends up all about the Al Bhed Potions since the buff items are kind of a pain to get in bulk and Use is the most spareable skillset anyways. Still, something to be said for tossing out ABP spam off that speed. 5/10.
Wakka: I didn't get as much mileage out of the statushax as some, but still, best overall stat spread for randomsmashing, the resident evadewhore randoms say lol to the rest of the cast more often than not and he's got better strength than Tidus for a sizeable chunk of the game so he deals with wolves fine as well. Against bosses he's a little less solid but still best physical offense in practice and statushax is still an option against the odd boss, never mind that Attack Reels hurts if you care enough to grab it. 7/10.
Lulu: Lulu is so dang swingy on usefulness until late in her grid section, at which point she becomes quite good, but still, there's a pretty sizeable section of game where she's bad at things outside her randomsmashing focus, though unlike Auron she's not really at much risk of failing to oneshot enemies in her niche ever. 5/10.
Yuna: 10/10, nothing really needs to be said.
Kimahri: As far as I see it, the hornless wonder's got two real options open to him and they're both pretty solid. The one I went for basically had him being Tidus with a larger MP pool to play with, so as a personal experience thing a 7/10 would work. Pretty swingy though, I could see anywhere from a 1 to 7-8 fitting for him. Weird.
Ike(9): Stat spread turns out exceptional, but the beginning could use a little work. I'm not as big on the FE9 monosword hate as some people and the promotion didn't feel that late to me (go playstyle differences or something), so an 8/10 works.
Mist(9): Project healer, except BEXP exists so you can just BEXP her up to Lv10, blow a master seal on her, and enjoy your 8 move healer with Canto, which frankly strikes me as more useful than anything you can do with her main competition, and hey if you're willing to invest more she gets hax offense. 6/10.
Reyson(9): Needs boots/knight ring pretty badly, but is probably the best candidate for them anyways. 9/10, only real thing holding him back from a perfect score is needing to wait a few turns to transform.
Elincia(9): Her staff rank lets her hang back and play healer with physic staves, that's more than can be said for *some* of the lategame trash you get. 3/10.
Titania(9): Dominates the earlygame, only really falls off when other people start catching up to her in weapon ranks and start being able to pull out silvers, which takes a while because FE9 weapon levels are dumb, and even after that she's still solid. 9/10.
Oscar(9): So you have a reasonably tanky mounted unit in a game where mounted units are inherently dominant, give him solid offense and have him support with the main character. Who gives him obscene evasion. Then you give him more supports which make his evasion even more obscene. Oh and there's also an accessory that boosts speed growth and cavaliers can use it to pretty crazy effect too. What the christ, Intelligent Systems. 9.5/10.
Kieran(9): Rounding out the dominant mounted trio, we have this guy. Offense/durability combo is p. cool. 9/10.
Makalov(9): The worst unpromoted cavalier. Oh no. 7/10.
Geoffrey(9): Reasonably solid filler. 5/10.
Gatrie(9): I don't particularly *want* to give him a worse score than what I game Gilliam but *ugh*. Armor knights run counter to my biases to begin with and FE9 makes their issues worse with its wide open maps and lack of narrow chokepoints and generally greater emphasis on mobility, never mind that the cavaliers do the tanking job about as well anyways. In the meanwhile enemies actually have stats now and his speed is terrible. Screw it, worse score than Gilliam he gets. 2.5/10.
Brom(9): Is better than Gatrie for reasons that have been stated, but still, the bias is against armor knights and I just can't bring myself to agree that it's two whole points worth of difference. 3.5/10.
Nephenee(9): Outside of the weapon rank (E in Lances at that point? Really, Nephenee?) the start's pretty solid for what it is and she does bring a pretty reasonable offense/durability combo and is the earliest person who can potentially benefit from the Vantage/Wrath combo. 7/10.
Devdan: You could use him I guess but why. 3/10.
Tauroneo(9): Ew. 2/10.
Boyd(9): Brings offense. Not a fan of the shaky speed though, or the defenses for that matter, for all that the HP can probably keep him out of too much trouble. 7/10.
Mordecai(9): augh 0 starting transform gauge why. You could Demi Band him but you don't get that until Muarim joins and Muarim's better anyways so who cares? Still, I've found Smite to be occasionally useful. 2.5/10.
Muarim(9): Well chances are if you're going to be fielding a tiger it's him. Still not very fond overall. 3.5/10.
Largo: Boyd with worse defenses and supports barely worth caring about. Aww yeah. 3/10.
Giffca(9): Well I guess he's a useful crutch against Ashnard if you got a sucky Ike. 5/10.
Mia(9): Oh FE9 swordmasters. They don't dodge particularly well since FE9 hates giving people luck stats and it's harder to make up for that with supports now, enemies have better defensive stats than they used to so their low strength tends to bite them, weapon weight is mitigated by strength and in order to do damage they have to use heavier weapons, so the stereotypical swordmaster is getting hosed since enemies are actually having stats and they get to face the choice between not doubling or not doing damage. And meanwhile lances and axes look better now since the people who use those tend to have better strength and end up more able to match swordmaster speed as a result, to say nothing of the cavaliers and their bloody ability to abuse the Knight Ward. And Mia is pretty much the stereotypical FE swordmaster, having to deal with the harsh reality of being in a game that hates her statbuild. Still, she can get by, but only just. 4/10.
Zihark(9): Slightly better overall than Mia, but worse potential skill combos there, and I don't think the better base is quite enough to warrant a better score, ultimately. I'd care more about the Earth affinity if his supports didn't depend on people whom one really shouldn't depend on being fielded. 4/10.
Stefan(9): Well if you're going to field a swordmaster in FE9, it's probably this guy. 6/10.
Lucia(9): lulz. 1/10.
Naesala(9): Well I guess he's a useful crutch against Ashnard if you got a sucky Ike. 5/10.
Shinon(9): Ugh, no. Can fuck up chipping in the earlygame because of that crit bonus, is terrible when he rejoins, and isn't even good once he gets levels under his belt. I don't want to say EXP thief but with his needing all that EXP to go from a completely terrible unit to a merely bad unit, it's tempting. 0/10.
Rolf(9): Meanwhile he goes from suck to okay for an archer, but you probably have better uses for your BEXP and Astrid joins a few chapters later so why care? 2/10.
Lethe(9): Has some okay utility in the middle parts and doesn't take forever to be able to do anything besides shove people if not given the Demi Band. 4/10.
Astrid(9): Paragon/Knight Ward/Actually ends up pretty good/Is a FE9 cav. 8/10.
Ranulf(9): Lethe when you stopped having a reason to use Lethe five chapters ago. 2/10.
Marcia(9): Start is kind of shaky but can't argue with those results. 7.5/10.
Jill(9): Marcia trading some speed for some concrete durability. Probably a lateral move, all things considered. 7.5/10.
Janaff(9): lawl. 2/10.
Tanith(9): Solid enough filler, point for Marcia/Oscar supports. 6/10.
Ulki(9): lawl. 2/10.
Haar(9): Solid enough filler, though a bit less solid than others. 4/10.
Tibarn(9): Well I guess he's a useful crutch against Ashnard if you got a sucky Ike. 5/10.
Soren(9): Mages in FE9 have a whole host of issues. Soren's in the running for best one and he's only adequate. The power disparity between weapons and tomes is larger than it is in the GBA games and enemy resistance tends to be better, and due to how forging works, tomes just get left further in the hole. Meanwhile, Soren's speed is shaky and his strength sucks, so he's likely going to need to rely on forges to do what others can. I don't have a whole lot of respect for the unreliable Adept procs and the weakness hitting against laguz is a pretty small boon. Still, he can contribute some pretty nice chip damage in the worst case scenario, and after promotion he can serve as a backup healer. 5/10.
Illyana(9): Hey look it's Soren without the things that make Soren adequate. 2/10.
Tormod(9): Cerelity solves one of the problems mages have, but he comes in underleveled, his base speed is basically Soren's except Tormod joins six levels higher than Soren did and his growth there is not notably better, and he's worse at the whole chip thing anyways. 4/10.
Calill(9): Would unquestionably be the best mage if she had the decency to use staves. Unfortuantely she does not. Still, solid stats and okay weapon levels. 5/10.
Bastian(9): No. 1/10.
Ena(9): I guess she can be used as a crutch or something. 2/10.
Nasir(9): Ditto. 2/10.
Rhys(9): Fails forever and ever at having any sort of offensive worth and unlike Mist doesn't get a pony on promotion. Useable enough, I suppose, but there's too much you'd need to keep from looking at him funny for my liking. 3/10.
Volke(9): Costs 50 gold every time he does his thing I so don't care. Not a whole lot of call for thief utility anyways but it is there and basically how I spammed physic staves at endgame. 4/10.
Sothe(9): No. 1/10.
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Kika: 8/10
Dario: 3/10
Sigurd: 6/10
Hervey: 4/10
[17:47] <Meeple_Gorath> Someone give me ratings for these 4 characters, stat!
Done~
Roog: 2/10
Rahal: 2/10
Flail: 2/10
Lance: 2/10
Nick: 2/10
Ax: 2/10
If memory serves, while you're forced to use Rahal and Roog but they're not TOTALLY dead weight, just mostly dead weight. Hurray Suikoden V's hilarious easiness. The rest are never required but should also never, ever be in the party.
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Grandia 3:
Yuki: 5.21
Miranda: 5.29
Alfina: 6.43
Alonso: 3.92
Ulf: 4.50
Dahna: 5.93
Hect: 7.00
Suikoden Yaoi Duo Knights and Arbitrary Characters Who Align with Them:
Kwanda: 3.07
Milich Oppenheimer: 5.57
Alen: 6.29
Grenseal: 5.14
Kasim: 3.29
Sonia: 6.50
Mikolotov: 3.57
Camus: 5.43
Georg Prime-2: 5.14
Borus: 5.83
Percival: 6.58
Salome: 4.67
Leo: 4.33
Roland: 3.25
Kika: 8.20
Dario: 3.00
Sigurd: 6.00
Hervey: 4.20
Roog: 2.00
Rahal: 2.40
Flail: 1.40
Lance: 1.40
Nick: 3.20
Ax: 1.20
Best Rating of this session: Kika w/ 8.20
Worst Rating of this session: Ax w/ 1.20
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15t. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
15t. Ax (S5) 1.20
15t. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
18. Squid (FFT) 1.25
19t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
19t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
This rating session is brought to you buy Beavers! ...which is exactly why we're not rating them because I do NOT TAKE BRIBES!!!
Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning:
Sazh:
Snow:
Vanille:
Hope:
Fang:
Suikoden Archers and Geddoe's Crew:
Kirkis:
Lorelai-1:
Rubi:
Stallion-1:
Sylvina:
Ayda:
Kinnison:
Lorelai-2:
Stallion-2:
Ace:
Aila:
Jacques:
Joker:
Queen:
Yuiri:
Yumi:
Aldo:
Flare:
Frederica:
Lo Hak:
Isato:
Lorelai-5:
Lu:
Urda:
NOTE: Due to my lack of knowledge and Suikosource not being useful in this regard, I probably missed some Suiko 5 characters. Please feel free to fill in if I have!
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Missed all of Urda for S5. Three archers, whoo. going overboard on thrown weapons, whoo.
Isato: 2/10 One skill slot and one attack but Great barrage isn't too bad a skill.
Lorelai-5: 7/10. Earylish and three slots.
Lu: 6/10 Middlish, but very fast and two skill slots.
Urda: 3/10 Isato with better war battle stats.
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Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 6/10. High offensive stats, and makes a good commando and a good ravager. Probably the best overall PC for the first half of the game (you can see how much better she is than Sazh very readily), fades a bit as time goes on but never a bad choice. Her coverage of in-demand roles is pretty low, is the main flaw.
Sazh: 4/10. Sazh has offensive buffs, which are really nice. Haste/Bravery/Faith are decent, but it's the En- spells that really shine, doubling a Commando's damage in combination with an existing weakness or Imperil. He also has a decent Blitz eventually, against some targets, although there isn't much else to recommend his Commando or Ravager. Second best durability too... but honestly, once Hope also gets the offensive buffs, that HP is all he has and it's not enough. So... decent for a while, bad late.
Snow: 5/10. Nice HP, good sentinel, and shockingly good at being a ravager due to his casting time. I think he's pretty bleh as a Commando though, iffy attacks. Sorta rises and falls with how much you need a Sentinel, I think.
Vanille: 6/10. Debuffs are great and she gets them early, and even late maintains an accuracy lead on them. Having a trained medic is also nice. She's a bit weak on the direct offensive roles, though.
Hope: 6/10. The best thing about Hope is he's pretty much a perfect compliment to Fang (see below). Otherwise he's another good medic, which is certainly a great boon to bring to the table when he's also one of two Synergists (and more than Sazh offers). Magic is great, but HP sucks.
Fang: 7.5/10. So she is the commando with the highest attack (and has pretty much all the skills needed to excel in that role to boot) and also has her hands in two rather useful of the niche roles due to dropping Ravager (which she gets away with because literally everyone else has it). That's pretty badass.
Suikoden Archers and Geddoe's Crew:
Kirkis: 6/10. I remember most of the S1 elves having pretty high overall stats.
Lorelai-1: 3.5/10. S1 pure fighters are pretty crappy, but at least she has skill.
Rubi: 6/10. See Kirkis.
Stallion-1: 2/10. lol useless locked rune. RUNNING ON WORLD MAP oh boy, I'm sure this matters for speedruns or something. If you really want a Holy Rune you can slap one on whichever scrub is already being forced. That said he has unites with other elves which are pretty cool, and save him from a 1.
Sylvina: 5.5/10. Lower HP than Rubi/Kirkis, but still solid in the stats that matter (Speed and magic).
Ayda: 4/10. Really bland, but at least she has decent speed.
Kinnison: 4/10. A bit worse than Ayda on raw stats (not much), but has the Shiro unite.
Lorelai-2: 4.5/10. Kind of workable as a fighter/mage, but ouch at the one free rune slot.
Stallion-2: 3/10. Well at least he has a rune slot this time.
Ace: 4/10. Has his moments certainly, but overall a bit held back by a low power ceiling, pure fighter and there are many better.
Aila: 6/10. The early shield rune is nice, and she is a decent fighter/mage.
Jacques: 3.5/10. A lot like Ace, and while he's ultimately a bit better, he takes much longer to get a second swing, so he's less good midgame.
Joker: 4/10. Mage. Kind of a crappy one (only one free slot most of the game, fire is a crappy proficiency) but gets the job done.
Queen: 5/10. Ace who is... a little better midgame but quite a bit better late, since she's actually workable as a mage and has Heavy Damage.
Yuiri: 7.5/10. Brokenly good (07 magic, Killer + 2 free rune slots, Heavy Damage) but not around too often. Still really excels at whatever you want while she's around, and joins with a million skill points and a high-level weapon so she takes no effort to make this happen. HP could be a bit better.
Yumi: 6/10. Yuiri who is a bit worse at everything.
Aldo: 3.5/10. He's decently fast but mediocre otherwise. There's worse, granted!
Flare: 5.5/10. Late, but decent overall stats in areas that matter such as speed and magc.
Frederica: 5.5/10. Practically a copy of Flare, go figure.
Lo Hak: 4/10. Hervey with better magic (still not great), but worse physicals/HP. I guess he(?) is better than Aldo anyway.
Isato: 6/10. Gets three slots the second fastest of any fighter, decent stats all-around whether you want fighting or maging.
Lorelai-5: 6/10. Competent all-around.
Lu: 2/10. Game-worst durability! Only one free slot pure fighter! Thanks, but no thanks.
Urda: 7/10. Isato with more HP/strength, basically. Very good mage except at fire, and near the top of the physical damage chart, from the back row.
Fudo: uh, skill slot hype? Skill slots are worth less than a single climb of a stat tier, in general.
-
Fudo: uh, skill slot hype? Skill slots are worth less than a single climb of a stat tier, in general.
When it's for Speed? Yeah.
-
Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 5 - Felt very average the whole game. Never needed her as a Medic outside of the opening with Sazh that I can remember... you always have either Hope or Vanille. I wanted to drop her most of the time.
Sazh: 2 - Wow, you're dead weight in battle. Good thing you've got Frocobo.
Snow: 8 - Sentinel abuse means you never lose.
Vanille: 7 - SAB is awesome, being the only healer for large portions of the game (and being better at it than Light) means she gets this 7 easily. Carries Sazh in their partner sections.
Hope: 6.5 - Medic duty for Lightning, but Lightning isn't dead weight.
Fang: 8.5 - Sentinel abuse AND SAB.
Suikoden Archers and Geddoe's Crew: Really weird choice of grouping here... >.>;;
Kirkis: 6
Lorelai-1: 6
Rubi: 6
Stallion-1: 1.5
Sylvina: 5
Ayda: 4
Kinnison: 4.5 for availability
Lorelai-2: 5
Stallion-2: 3
Ace: 6
Aila: 7.5
Jacques: 5
Joker: 5
Queen: 6
Yuiri: 7.5
Yumi: 7
Aldo: 7 - Has a unite with Ted, instantly useful.
Flare: 6
Frederica: 6
Lo Hak: 4
Isato: 4
Lorelai-5: 7
Lu: 3
Urda: 4
-
Lightning: 6/10. She's quite good when she synergizes well with the party she's in, but because of her relatively weak third class she isn't great at synergy.
Sazh: 3/10. I'm kinda with Djinn on this one. He's got a specific part of the game where he is good, but the rest of the time he feels quite mediocre.
Snow: 6/10. Not feeling the uber hype due to not loving Sentinel but he has high HP and is a good Ravager. Plus points for shoring up my party's lack of Protect/Shell by getting it relatively early with off-class nonsense.
Vanille: 7.5/10. Deprotect/Deshell/Imperil are pretty godlike, great healer, is very valuable at raking up that Chain Gauge. Her damage isn't great, though.
Hope: 7.5/10. Picks up steam as time goes on gameplaywise, I feel like he's a no brainer to use in an optimal party lategame(not that I used him).
Fang: 8.5/10. Less good at the SAB job than Vanille until later, but her offense is nutty and Sentinel is always valuable, especially on a team without Snow.
Ace: 6/10.
Aila: 7/10
Jacques: 4/10
Joker: 6/10
Queen: 6/10. Most of the Geddoe crew is servicable but not great. I think Aila is a bit better than the rest and Jacques is a bit worse.
Yuiri: 8/10. Late but a very good PC.
Yumi: 7/10. Not sure why you'd use her when you get Yuiri at the same time, but still fine. :p
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Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 6/10. Blinds people with swords to the eye.
Sazh: 4/10. Functional when you've gotta use him, but I don't see a compelling reason to put him in the party once you get options.
Snow: 6/10. When you need a Sen, there he is. Otherwise alright but not necessarily optimal.
Vanille: 7/10. Poison is really good, at least the way I was playing.
Hope: 8/10. The endgame kicks you repeatedly in the nuts if you don't use him.
Fang: 7/10. That sure is a strength stat.
Suikoden Archers and Geddoe's Crew:
Kirkis: 7/10. His stats are largely in the right places.
Lorelai-1: 4/10.
Rubi: 4/10? I remember her having good physical stats, probably the most balanced among people without good Mag? Which would be worth more if Viktor wasn't forced admittedly.
Stallion-1: 2/10. Yeah.
Sylvina: 5/10.
Ayda: 3/10
Kinnison: 3/10
Lorelai-2: 4/10
Stallion-2: 3/10
Ace: 4/10. He peaks really early, which is kinda useful. But overall a poor choice as you go.
Aila: 6/10. Shield is so damn slow, doesn't help at all in all those victory-optional fights :(
Jacques: 5/10. Really good at what he does, even if it's not THAT useful.
Joker: 5/10. As above.
Queen: 6/10.
Yuiri: 7/10. Very good, very flexible, although at that point when you get people maxed in all their skills one dimensional is in some ways better.
Yumi: 5/10. Not really feelin' another support mage at that point.
Aldo: 4/10.
Flare: 6/10.
Frederica: 4/10.
Lo Hak: 3/10? Sure.
Isato: ... um.
Lorelai-5: 6/10. Usable!
Lu: abstain
Urda: abstain
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inal Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 7/10- Good at commando and ravager both. Medic's a weak third class, which is her biggest drawback.
Sazh: 3/10- *Flush* Worst PC in the game, hands down. Only thing he has going for him is early haste, which is not enough for me.
Snow: 4/10- Sen does not impress me and he feels inferior to Lightning overall as an offensive unit.
Vanille: 7/10- Really good sab and a good medic. Lack of commando hurts some.
Hope: 5/10. Good on paper, I just don't like the HP. I found it easy to live without a syn in 13, sabs were so much better on the whole.
Fang: 8.5/10. Best Com in the game, and an excellent Sab to boot. She also makes a really scary syngerist if you somehow scrape up the CP for it, and her ravager isn't bad either.
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Kirkis: Yeah, good stats in places where they're supposed to be. 6.5/10.
Lorelai-1: Meh. 3/10.
Rubi: I want to say he was at least okay. 5/10.
Stallion-1: No. 1.5/10.
Sylvina: Less solid than Kirkis. 5.5/10.
Ayda: Meh. 3/10.
Kinnison: Meh, half a point for Shiro unite. 3.5/10.
Lorelai-2: Workable this time around at least. 4.5/10.
Stallion-2: Still no. 1.5/10.
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Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 6/10 - Solid COM, second best RAV. Subpar MED eventually drags her down but being competent and pulling her weight at two of the game's bread and butter/core roles goes a long way for usability and scoring well.
Sazh: 6.5/10 - Hmmm. Offensive based SYN. Seems to fit in with the style of the game/it's pace. Faith works great with Vanille's Deshell in Sunleth. Similarly early Brave is good with Sazh Blitz. Later on once Vanille picks up Imperil Sazh getting the En element spells earlier than Hope does also feels like a bonus. Imperil + En elements work really well together. Just feel like these two characters/the SAB/SYN duo have great synergy with each other =) Sazh's biggest bonus/main draw/money move is of course early Haste. Haste barring external sources is probably the single best spell/ability in the game. I consider Imperil up there but eh. Haste speeds everything up. This is huge. For blitz orientated gaming speed means a lot. I do think FFXIII's Haste is a bit overrated (and I'm as guilty of that as anyone) but this tends to happen anyway when something is really good. Apart from early Faith, Brave, Haste and En spells, Sazh also has the Sazh Blitz. Does huuuge damage on targets with large hit boxes especially combined with other factors like buffs/debuffs and elements. Man deserves at least some love for the Sazh Blitz at least :)
Snow: 6.5/10 - Best Ravager, solid Commando. Best SEN but this doesn't feel as important to me as best RAV or a character being best COM, SAB or MED.
Vanille: 7.5/10
Hope: 6.5/10 - One of the best SYNs. One of the best MEDs. Decentish RAV. Defensive based SYN, picking up the defensive based buffs, Protect, Shell, Bar elements earlier than the offensive ones. Which doesn't feel as potent for this type of game but mileage may vary. Once he finally does pick up goodies like Haste and Curaja though Hope is probably the best sheer dedicated support based character in the game.
Fang: 7.5/10 - Best COM, one of the best SABs. Don't care too much about her SEN though. FFXIII feels like an offensive driven game to me where blitzing is the order of the day and spending too much down time in more defensive roles like SEN, SYN, MED hurts time/damage output wise, etc. At least SEN prevents chain decay/holds the chain gauge unlike the other two though!~
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Rubi: 4/10? I remember her having good physical stats, probably the most balanced among people without good Mag? Which would be worth more if Viktor wasn't forced admittedly.
You are negatively comparing 160 endgame MAG to Viktor?
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No, just misremembering Ruby as a physical fighter in which you have more than you need of those forced in the party.
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FF13 is another game with solid balance that I'm going to be pretty narrow in my scoreband for.
Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 6/10 - Sure, covers bases, and is fun to control (most importantly for me). Didn't really like microing SYN but Medic healing is important enough to not mind doing myself sometimes. SAB would be okay except the AI wouldn't understand I was trying to disable an enemy, not kill it. Medic healing jumps off a cliff in the last chapter and is non-existent early, but whatever.
Sazh: 5/10 - Falls off to a 4 lategame, sure, when Hope steals his niche AND becomes a better healer and hoses status. But early on, I liked Sazh for doing fast buffs -> good damage. Certainly a good choice if you're trying to get good scores on battles. The ranged attribute of his attacks will randomly be helpful too.
Snow: 5/10 - SEN is a bit weird. It saves your bacon in some fights and is often the only way to sanely recover when things go horribly wrong. But it also is a slow and grindy way to win fights and your rating will suffer if you abuse it too much. Still... it totally gives time in, say, Hope teams to set up defensive buffs and not die, then worry about killing the opponent. It lets you win fights that would otherwise be nightmarish, and Snow is the best at it with his durability edge on Fang. So eh. (Oh yeah and competent damage when you want it, too, but you can get that from anywhere.)
Vanille: 6/10 - I generally liked SYN a bit more than SAB, actually. I usually felt more threatened by hordes of crap than one big nasty dude. SAB is a +100% damage bonus on one enemy once it hits, basically, while SYN is +40% for that character's damage forever and always hits, and may also get defensive stuff too later on. Still... good Ravager, decent Medic, doesn't die as fast as Hope. Then gets a +1 off Imperil alone. Gee you're already doubling damage by default with Deshell / Deprotect, now we get to 4x it with Ravagers -> horrible death? Yeah, Imperil is damn good.
Hope: 6/10. Has a notable weakness in that HP so not really a suitable leader ever, starts off with pretty uninspiring SYN options. Then gets more broken as the game goes on, and is probably the most crucial member to have in your party in Chapter 13 once Lightning's healing becomes uninspiring and you realize the final boss has instant death. Protect / Shell kind of compensate for the horrid HP. Didn't care about the lack of Commando, Ravager is just fine.
Fang: 7/10. Sadly the best as noted. You lose versatility - Fang's Ruin options are way worse than her physical in general - but you get just plain better damage against all but physical tanks. A useful if not as fun trade. You always want a Commando to keep Stagger up except when in pure turtle mode so lacking RAV isn't that big a deal. As for SAB, it's situational but hey. I found Leader Fang opening with Slowga quite key at making some of the nastier horde fights in Chapter 11 winnable. SEN is just icing on the cake.
Incidentally my final party for Chapter 13 was Light / Sazh / Snow, and Light falls off in C13, so yeah all theoretically a suboptimal party, and I was still basically fine and felt I had options to win with. (Had to switch Sazh to Hope to make the final more sane, though.) So pretty good balance.
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Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning: 7/10. Really good at both Commando and Ravager, which honestly was a pretty big deal for me I found.
Sazh: 4/10. Haste is cool, but once Hope learns it, he's sort of out of a job. Blitz is kind of neat, but honestly the number of cases where its actually stand out are too small for me to care.
Snow: 5.5/10. Yeah, good Sentinel, and passable at other roles, he's niche in uses.
Vanille: 7/10. Good Medic and Saboteur, yep.
Hope: 6.5/10. Decent Synergist and Medic. Gains half a point because of how well he compliments...
Fang: 8/10. Yeah, dropping Ravager means she can fulfill 2 niches at once when most characters fulfill one, and snice all of the other 5 have Ravager, her lack of it isn't really a big deal. Earns her MVP pretty easily.
Suikoden Archers and Geddoe's Crew:
Kirkis: 6/10. Solid all around.
Lorelai-1: 3/10. Pure Fighter in Suikoden 1 doesn't go far.
Rubi: 6/10. Kirkis variant.
Stallion-1: 2/10. AWESOME SPEED!!! Locked Rune means he's a forced fighter and he's not a good one -_-
Sylvina: 6/10. Kirkis Variant.
Ayda: 4/10. Has his moments, but not much beyond that.
Kinnison: 4/10. Decent early game, but not much beyond that.
Lorelai-2: 4/10. Not bad, but kind of generic.
Stallion-2: 2/10. Not much better than his S1 self. In some regards worse because you don't need a rune to dash outside of the overworld now...
Ace: 4/10. Passable, but nothing special.
Aila: 6/10. Echoing the "Good due to her initial runes" thing.
Jacques: 3/10. Meeeeh.
Joker: 6/10. Decent Mage.
Queen: 4/10. Kind of generic.
Yuiri: 7/10. Good twink potential.
Yumi: 6/10. Yuiri-
Aldo: 4/10. Unite with Ted is hard to care about when Ted's best stuff is solo anyway :P
Flare: 5/10. Passable filler.
Frederica: 4/10. Flare-, from what I remember.
Lo Hak: 3/10. Meeeeh.
Isato: 6/10. 3 Rune slots early? Sure, that's good.
Lorelai-5: 5/10. I remember her being okish, but nothing special.
Lu: 2/10. Uh, yeah, just bad.
Urda: 7/10. I'll take Elfboy's word on it that this is Isato+, because Suikoden tends to be easy to look stuff up about in this regard.
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blah blah more catchup bs that no one cares about
Micaiah: Part 1 offense is p. cool, especially if she gets speed. Staves for tier 2 is p. cool too but once that happens the offense pretty much goes out the window unless she gets speedblessed or you pull Sacrifice + Resolve/Wrath strats. 6.5/10.
Rafiel: The good, can refresh four people anytime. The bad, 5 move forever, no flight ever, and no Canto ever, and the pre-endgame maps where he's available sorta hamstring him. 5/10.
Black Knight: always triumphs/10
Elincia(10): A bit projecty to use as a combat unit, for all that 15 Mt unbreakable brave sword + stun odds are what the fuck is this do I even, but she is still 9 move flying mounted healer of doom. 7.5/10.
Leanne: Has canto and doesn't get stuck with 5 move forever. Can't refresh as many people as Rafiel/transformed Reyson though. 6/10.
Ike(10): Um. Ike more or less godmodes his way to endgame where the bad Res bites him. Not so much as to be unsalvageable though. It is basically Eph without the pony. 9/10.
Mist(10): Uh she has more move than Laura/Rhys get hype. 3.5/10.
Reyson(10): Yep. 9/10.
Sanaki: That str/speed base agh. She'd be fine if her strength/speed were a few points higher. 3/10.
Lehran: bloo bloo/10
Fiona: Ew to those bases and double ew to that joining time. 1/10.
Geoffrey(10): Is okay for a few maps and then promptly disappears off the face of the earth and comes back in time to suck for endgame. 4/10.
Kieran(10): Filler. 4/10.
Makalov(10): uh better project cav than fiona this says so much. 3/10.
Titania(10): Not as dominant as she was in FE9, still good. 8/10.
Oscar(10): You mean to say, they nerfed Oscar? I do not accept this! I DO NOT ACCEPT THIS! Okay he's still okay. 6/10.
Renning: Man, what's the point? 2/10.
Aran: Dawn Brigade needs a decent wall. Bad speed hurts him later on though. 6/10.
Meg: You know, 21 HP/10 Def at Lv3 is pretty solid for the DB and her growths there are fairly okay, just... joining on 1-4 where she has to contend with tigers and having to put up with bad terrain which is just augh for raising up armor knights. She'd be fine if she joined on like 1-2 because then she'd have a better join time and get to benefit from DB chapters being chokepointy better but as it stands, augh... just augh. 2.5/10.
Tauroneo(10): Helps for three DB maps and is kind of mediocre for Part 4. 4/10.
Nephenee(10): A little less str/durability this time around, but it's still Nephenee. 7.5/10.
Brom(10): Okay for part 2, rejoins in time to get completely outclassed by Gatrie in part 3. 5/10.
Danved: Danved is not pretty amazing. In fact, Danved is kind of bad. Helps for a couple of maps, but that's about it. 3/10.
Gatrie(10): Cool armor knight bro. Just Part 3 isn't the best time to be one. 6/10.
Nolan: Oh hey an axeman with a speed stat. Also earth affinity is p. cool and he has a p. cool axe in part 3. 8/10.
Muarim(10): Um. 2/10.
Mordecai(10): Has a couple good maps but past that is bad. 3/10.
Boyd(10): Bases? What are these things you call bases? Oh right, it's what Boyd doesn't have. 2/10.
Kyza: Why would you bother? 2/10.
Skrimir: Rofflestomps 4-P which also has horseslayer and Naesala rofflestomping and then 26 speed forever this works for endgame right. 3/10.
Caineghis: Uh those are some stats you have their caineghis. 8/10.
Giffca(10): It's Caineghis without Formshift. 7.5/10.
Edward: Edward, Edward, Edward. You have approximately the same bases at Lv4 as a generic Lv1 enemy myrmidon. Your growths may be good but it takes you quite a while for them to show. And you are a may as well be range 1 forever for the entirety of part 1 and get 2HKO'd by everything from 1-1 on, and because it's early game you can't dodge because no one dodges early in FE, and your offense isn't even that special, rendering you an incompetent boob. Meanwhile your direct SM competition are all, Lucia aside, good out of the box and tend to remain good, and you have to spend the maps you have on them playing catchup. And when you are caught up, it's too little too late because those other guys are remaining solid. It is basically Nino except instead of having good bases for a low level unit but has a stupid joining time he has crappy bases but is available from the getgo, but the end result is the same, it's a unit you need to baby to be barely better than others you don't need to baby and is only better for a questionably relevent timeframe. Probably the second worst in the DB, all things considered. 2/10.
Zihark(10): Competent, has earth affinity, shores up the DB. 7/10.
Vika: Good for part 1 then comes back on 4-4 where she may as well be Nino. 3/10.
Nealuchi: Good for part 2 then comes back on part 4 where he may as well be better than Nino but still filler. 3.5/10.
Lucia(10): Good for one chapter of part 2 then comes back on part 4 where she--oh screw this gag, she gets bad but not as blitheringly incompetent as Edward is during part 1 is. 2.5/10.
Mia(10): Those certainly are some bases, Mia. 8.5/10.
Naesala(10): Hey it's a laguz royal. 8/10.
Stefan(10): Solidly useable endgame filler. 5/10.
Leonardo: He can at least do some things that Edward can't, which gets him a higher score despite being worse than generic enemies forever. 2.5/10.
Volug: Great at helping the DB through those tough part 1 chapters, but there's enough crutchs running around that I wouldn't call him utterly dominant there. Still, pretty reminiscient of FE9 Titania. 8.5/10. <Nailah> It's dangerous to go alone, take this.
Nailah: Laguz royal with extra part 1 helperness? I'm in. 8.5/10.
Lethe(10): Useable in part 2, not great later, is a cat. 3/10.
Astrid(10): What the hell happened to you, woman? 1/10.
Shinon(10): Um. Talk about your large improvements. 7/10.
Rolf(10): That certainly is a strength growth you have there Rolf. 6/10.
Lyre: lulz. 1/10.
Ranulf(10): Well if you must use a cat he's hardly bad. 5/10.
Jill(10): HP is kind of shaky to start but otherwise Jill is wonderful. 8.5/10
Marcia(10): Fairly typical pegknight. Good once she promotes but wants better availability. 6/10.
Haar(10): Um wow. Badass incarnate on a wyvern really says it doesn't it. 9/10.
Janaff(10): Well those are certainly some stats you obtained there Janaff. 7/10.
Ulki(10): More evasion untransformed than many units thanks to Vigilance, that's a thing. 7/10.
Sigrun: Flying filler. 4/10.
Tanith(10): Flying filler. 4/10.
Tibarn(10): Hey it's a laguz royal. 8/10.
Illyana(10): Mage Edward except actually not completely incompetent for a couple of part 1 maps. Still, FE10 Thunder magic is such garbage, and then she comes back in part 3 in time to be completely terrible. 2.5/10.
Tormod(10): Jeigan Nino. 3/10.
Calill(10): Unlike every other mage, has a speed stat, letting her occasionally have offense despite the inferior magic stat. Not good on availability though. 6/10.
Soren(10): Has less speed than he did in FE9. Soren did not need this. 4/10.
Pelleas: needs a spine/10
Bastian(10): Not incompetent for 4-5. Not worth it past that. 2/10.
Ena(10): Blood Tide is p. cool for endgame. No offense whatsoever though. 6/10.
Kurthnaga: Night Tide isn't as cool as Blood Tide, gets offense but you need to grind that up and I so don't care about it. 4/10.
Gareth: Somehow the most frail endgame character despite having 82 HP and 42 Def. Not completely deadweight in fairness but I don't really need a second Blood Tide badly enough unless I'm doing something silly like Unlimited Meteor Works with Sanaki that I'd care to put up with him. 2/10, would be a 1 if Blood Tide didn't stack.
Nasir(10): White Pool is cooler than Blood Tide, but he's not there for E-3 which is where tides are the coolest. 6/10.
Laura: Unlike Ellen, you don't get to replace Laura that easily. Thankfully Part 1 is like chokepoint central so her utterly awful durability doesn't matter much. 3/10.
Sothe(10): Good for parts 1 and 3, falls off like a rock for part 4 and may as well be useless at endgame. 7/10 works.
Heather: Thief utility but there's not a whole lot of call for it. Can steal Bolting tomes (if she gets 20 strength) though!1!! 3/10.
Rhys(10): Rhys, Rhys never changes. 3/10.
Oliver: Hey guys 20 speed lategame in FE10 this works right. He's not even notable as a tertiary staff spammer. 0.5/10.
Volke(10): Acceptable endgame filler. 4.5/10.
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blah blah more catchup bs that no one cares about
lies
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blah blah more catchup bs that no one cares about
lies
word
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blah blah more catchup bs that no one cares about
lies
word
cocks
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you're dealing with the FE10 nerd brigade here Randomy
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blah blah more catchup bs that no one cares about
lies
word
cocks
cocks
cocks
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Volug: 8.5/10. <Nailah> It's dangerous to go alone, take this.
I keep chuckling everytime I see this.
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Might as well do the FF13 rankings.
Lightning: 7.5/10 -- Solid COM, solid RAV, but more than kind of an assy MED--only thing that comes to mind is early Raise with her in that category; other than that, she's nothing special. Gets half a point for that weapon that gives her extra action bar every time she hits something; low stats aside, I found it quite useful. Army of One probably rips apart staggered enemies if you can swap her to COM mid-flurry
Sazh: 4/10 -- LVP of the game by far, really. Early Haste and neat Blitz tricks against large enemies only gets you so far.
Snow: 5/10 -- His HP's amazing. Wish I knew about his casting speed earlier, though--makes him a good RAV for what it really matters in (Inflicting Stagger). Mediocre at damage overall, though.
Vanille:6.5/10 -- Your first SAB, as well as the first decent mage. Works well on RAV and MED as well, really.
Hope:6/10 -- Gamebest MAG, with easy access to Ruin, even, once roles open up. Fills SYN well once he gets Haste, but that HP sucks. A lot.
Fang:8/10 -- Physical powerhouse. SAB access. Has crap MAG but doesn't care. Stagger-finish limit that does stupid damage when gained. Passable as a SEN. Crazy buffs if you can afford them. Can I really say anything that hasn't been said--oh. Starts with arguably one of her best weapons straight out of the box.
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More FE10 rambling. Mostly agree with Random's thoughts. FWIW, not really giving much credit to joining with items / skills. Obviously free skills that help make the character better *when used* are worth hype since you get extra capacity that way, but Astrid gets 0 points for providing a Paragon, for example, nor does Giffca get credit for that Laguz Gem. Not really hyping Authority either since it's basically a property of the map, not the character; at no point can you choose leaders, so it's not like you have a choice between deploying the 5 Star yet worthless in combat FE7 Tactician vs. the 0 Star but unstoppable Black Knight.
Also, FWIW, I did not play hardc0re whatever levels come, come style. Sufficiently horrible level-ups early in the turn would cause me to reload the battle save, although I wasn't crazy enough to care about level-ups during the enemy turn. This has the effect of making the endgame easier and making BExp twinking more powerful, since more stats are likely to be capped which then allows a character to cover their weak stats with BExp. (Although I would totally be down for a "pregenerated" mode of playing Fire Emblem - the game rolls every single level-up in advance, and maybe has some simple chart about two bonus stats for equipping Blossom. With pregenerated level-ups, even a bad level-up is still helpful; you get some bonus, and you're getting closer to the next level-up. Pure random means that a bad level-up is strictly worse than nothing, which is disspiriting.)
This isn't news either, but Chapter 4 is largely not too bad on the difficulty level, and if you're having problems you can lean on the laguz royals you have without them being quite as much of an XP drain, and the laguz royals are often better than carefully built characters anyway, so being awesome at endgame isn't as good as it might normally be. Kinda weird that Chapters 3 & 4 have hordes of tier 2 units that don't really get better and die en mass while handing out XP like candy. I can see not wanting to subject players to random Impale and Deadeye activations, but really, by 4-3 and beyond, they could at least hand out hordes of lvl. 18-20 T2 reinforcements, and then hand out stat-boosting equipment in 4-Endgame to random T2 mooks. It's helpful for catch up, I guess, but eh. (Also, for having Chapter 4 be a more even playing field on level, Chapter 3 should take away like 3 missions from the Greil Mercenaries and then give 2 to the Dawn Brigade.)
FWIW, kill champs in my playthrough were Micaiah > Sothe > Titania (not even used in Endgame!) > Brom > Ike > Mia > Rolf. Endgame party was the 6 required slots, Reyson, Elincia, Brom, Calill, Aran, Mist, Rolf, Mia, Naesala, Tibarn, and Nailah. (I went in planning to use the Dawn Brigade to the bitter end, but I "foolishly" sent the DB along with Micaiah in Chapter 4. Yeah, the desert isn't the XP fest that the other maps are anyway, and footsoldiers like Edward / Nolan get even less XP than the rest.)
Micaiah: Sure, useful chap 1 mage, and useful chap 3 healbot since Laura can't be everywhere at once. Fears the remotely speedy, though. Chap 4, she's behind on level and doesn't get to go to an XP-fest stage, but whatevs, she can Physic-spam at worst in emergencies. She might be higher except I think I have to penalize her a point for hogging Speedwings. 6/10.
Rafiel: Move is kind of the god stat for herons. 5/10.
Black Knight: Favorite special battle music is something, I guess. I did play 1-E once with sending the BK up solo to kill everything and that was p. cool. Unfortunately is kind of an XP-thief ultimately; sure you can use him as a crutch for 1-E and 3-6 if the Dawn Brigade is dead / sucking, but then goooooooooooood luck on 3-13. Those range 2 counters means he kills everything, so yeah, Nailah is the better "distract archers and Meteor mages" on 1-E, for all that it'd make far more sense for the BK to participate there. 2/10, it's a trap.
Elincia(10): Amiti, it's kind of broken. If used even a little she can basically KO the world in a single attack, and after 2-E it's pretty easy to steer her clear of the bowguns with the high move. Worthless offensively against the last 3 bosses all of which spoil her with high DEF, but hey staff use then. She'd have liked a normal defense, 300 HP boss a lot more. 8/10.
Leanne: Canto helps a lot on preserving heron lifespans without losing sanity. 7/10.
Ike(10): Bad RES but it totally doesn't matter since he kills everything effortlessly. Way to make the easier back half of the game even easier. 9/10.
Mist(10): Healer with Canto at worst, can kill stuff if you put effort into it (although starts out hopelessly behind in STR and is saved only by the Florete, a little). Along with Elincia, probably the best character for healing who starts with it out of the box. Stat caps means that even Alondite Mist doesn't really threaten the endgame, alas. 7/10.
Reyson(10): Yeah I'll take the speed and occasionally surviving a doubled Blizzard over Leanne's cute trick. 8/10.
Sanaki: Eminently usable mage after a few level-ups. Definitely requires a bit of grindin' to take advantage of the high growths, but whatever. Lack of staves is too bad, but she's required anyway, so whatever. She didn't feel as super-vulnerable as, say, Micaiah did, although that's partially Chapter 4 being easier than Chapter 1. 5/10.
Lehran: battle heron / 10.
Fiona: Man FE10 hates Fiona. So she joins, and then has a map she has a move penalty on, a map she just plain can't deploy to, another map with a move penalty, a water map where she also has movement troubles, a single real cavalier map (although so crowded with NPCs it's barely noticable), and then a defense map with lots of ledges she can't use. Which might all be fine, except she's also a project character with questionable bases yet decent growths, except her worst maps are when she's fighting the bad bases, and these maps are among the hardest in the game anyway which you are making harder so that uh you get a shiny Fiona in Chapter 4. So much easier to just bench her instead. If she'd had the sense to, say, join the Crimean Knights instead, she could easily have made it to a 4 or something! 1.5/10
Geoffrey(10): Great in Chapter 2, questionable in Chapter 4. At least he's got a free Paragon + rejoins on an XP-fest map if you do want to use him for Endgame. 6/10.
Kieran(10): Was okay in Chap 2, didn't use after. I do believe I already have a red-haired axe cavalier, except she's got like 10 levels on you. 4/10.
Makalov(10): See Kieran, except worse in Chapter 2 and even farther behind on levels in Chapter 3. 3/10?
Titania(10): Pretty great. Is annoyed by that 32 Spd cap in endgame and that's about it. 7/10.
Oscar(10): Had pretty much identical stats to Titania. The general dearth of enemy peg knights / hawks / crows meant that archery as a side interest was kind of worthless, though. 7/10.
Renning: Slightly worse stats than Titania, notably worse speed but maybe he's got a great growth? Seemed like he wouldn't shame your team if brought along to endgame, useful safety valve I guess. Didn't use anyway.
Aran: Was pretty good for me, at least, since he got enough speed and BExp covered the rest. Mr. Plotless Sympathetic Guard even made it to my endgame team. 7/10.
Meg: She's apparently okay if she gets the right growths on level-up, but eh, I looked at her lvl. 9 stats and realized she was still sucking and just benched her. Was amazingly killable for an Armor Knight. 2/10.
Tauroneo(10): Helps out the DB, and there are worse picks in Chapter 4 what with Resolve. He didn't suck there. 5/10.
Nephenee(10): Was useful-if-killable in Chapter 2. I used her in FE9 so gave her a rest this game for Brom, but she's apparently Aran with mildly better speed and resistance and mildly worse other stats. 7/10?
Brom(10): I actually liked the all-defense-all-the-time build. He could stick his neck out on maps like 3-5 and not even be scratched by cavs, and his speed is decent enough to not get doubled all the time. Cool stuff, although not really an offensive powerhouse except when Luna fires. 6/10.
Danved: Nepheene/Aran if they were missing 5-10 points of Defense. That is not a stat to skimp on. Still, like Makalov, is a warm body for C2 which is appreciated. 3/10.
Gatrie(10): Base stats of totally broken. Why is an Armor Knight doubling everything?! Even underleveled lvl. 16 Tier2 Gatrie was able to hold off the reinforcement hordes in 4-4 easily enough. What. 7/10
Nolan: More killable than I'd hope for, but yeah, solid all around, and more likely to have decent speed at endgame. Tarvos can save his neck in Chapter 3. Is around and quite key for the toughest parts of the game. 8/10.
Muarim(10): XP thief. 1/10.
Mordecai(10): Well, if you want to use a beast laguz in Chapter 3, congratulations you are using Ranulf because he's required. If you want to use another... I want to say Mordy is potentially the best choice? You will have to invest a Speedwing, and Micaiah already wants to eat 1-2 of them, but +4 Speed on a Tiger pretty well covers the sole crippling weakness they have. And he'll have time in Chapter 2 to build strike levels, and you'll take as much support as you can get for 2-E. Kind of silly but sure, potentially usable. 3.5/10?.
Boyd(10): Boyd was just fine for me, although part of this was C3 being massively tilted in favor of the Greil Mercs with authority boosts, forged weapons, solid support, etc. Probably worse than Nolan endgame due to the worse speed, but whatevs. Still solidly 2HKOs the world and doubles the C3 lamers easily enough. 6/10.
Kyza: Hi random plotless tiger. 2/10?
Skrimir: I'd potentially have been down for Skrimir hype if he joined earlier. Resolve + giant HP + Str of doom is p. cool. That said you get him for all of two maps before he gets massively overshadowed by his uncle AND Giffca who will have 8-9 levels on him. So uh still usable, just strictly better options for the role available. Is probably fine if you pretend you're under FE9 rules about laguz royals but uh you're not. 4/10.
Caineghis: God stats. You only get so high a score for stomping just 5 maps, though. 8/10.
Giffca(10): We liked Cain so much we decided to give you two copies of him? 8/10.
Edward: Man. Edward does require serious babying, no doubt about it. Even as late as 3-13 a slightly mispositioned Edward meant a very rapid trip to the afterlife. And he's just not all that fast early in Chapter 1, defanging him of the main thing swordmasters live off of. That all said... you need warm bodies in Chapter 1, and while it's chokepointy, it's often 2-space wide chokes. Trying to solo everything with Nolan seems dangerous and slow so you're not getting that BExp. So... I can see the argument to just ignore Edward than lean on Zihark, but eh, I trained him up, and having both him & Zihark was handy at times. Also I totally used Caladbolg Edward to take down a dude with a Killer Axe in 4-P. SPOILED. 4/10.
Zihark(10): Was shockingly okay despite being almost totally ignored (reasonably so, since he doesn't get much for Chap 1 kills). Lvl. 5 Zihark ended up a better deploy than lvl. ~10 Danved as a 15th slot in 4-1; they both get 2HKOed at that point, but Zihark will randomly dodge and can hit his opponents. No idea how good he is if seriously used, though. ?/10.
Vika: XP thief in part 1 and then is a project crow in case you hate Naesala and Nealuchi or something? On a map with decent number of enemy archers? 1.5/10.
Nealuchi: Okay in chapter 2, don't see the point in chapter 4. 3.5/10.
Lucia(10): Jagen in Chapter 2. Is actually not too bad to catchup in Chapter 4 despite bad Strength, just that by the time you've caught her up it's time for Endgame, and Mia still should have a huge level edge on her. So... usable, but why. 4/10.
Mia(10): Mia really likes being on maps with an authority advantage most of the time, since you can safely send her into the middle of a horde of enemies and she'll kill them all. She'd probably be great anyway, but cheats in Chapter 4 by having had access to the cornocoupia of XP that was the Greil Mercernaries Chapter 3. 8/10.
Naesala(10): Laguz royals, they cheat. 8/10.
Stefan(10): Didn't use (aside from FAQing -> stealing your cool sword).
Leonardo: About the worst archer possible who somehow ends up useful anyway. (Obviously helped by the lack of competition for DB deploy slots, so it's him or giving the XP to someone else.) Chapter 1 is chokepointy enough for him to get in free shots for XP, and chapter 3 Lugandsadh makes him downright okay. He helps hold the line against the hordes from crawling up the ramp in 3-13 while shooting downward at 'em and all. Worthless in Chapter 4 of course. 3/10.
Volug: Not really on the Volug hype train, although he's certainly useful. Pretty much a second copy of Sothe in Chapter 1, and pretty useful in Chapter 3. Is still sorta usable in Chapter 4 although not a star, of course. 6/10.
Nailah: <SnowFire> <RandomConsonant> Laguz royal with extra part 1 helperness? I'm in. 8.5/10.
Lethe(10): If for some strange reason you want a cat, use Ranulf. 2/10.
Astrid(10): Report in! Astrid? Astrid? Astriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid! (saved from a 1 because a Canto'd Archer is still hypothetically useful I guess, but even then, just use Oscar.) 2/10.
Shinon(10): Less Strength than Rolf but better other stuff? Marksmen are kind of hax. 8/10.
Rolf(10): Likes the fact that GM Chapter 3 is XP heaven, so his level disadvantage on Shinon doesn't matter much. Why is Rolf stronger than Ike. And oh yes 3 range pain bows in case you want to cheese every boss ever, Deadeye kicks in a lot, etc. 8/10.
Lyre: If for some strange reason you want TWO cats, use Ranulf and Lethe. 1/10.
Ranulf(10): His stats are okay, just. dat cat gauge. You can never safely send him near a thicket of enemies once his gauge hits 15 or so for fear of poke-poke-(forced revert)-double-dead cat. I'd rather not have to worry about this. Might have been acceptable if untransformed cats got +30 gague a round, but they don't. 3/10.
Jill(10): My Jill had some bad luck on level-ups and ended up something of a glass cannon - decent offense, but questionable HP / Defense. Luckily flying and canto meant she was just fine as a skirmisher, if not the death machine FE9 Jill was, and the DB will take what it can get. 6/10.
Marcia(10): Quite handy in Chapter 2. Of questionable use in Chapter 3 since Sigrun / Tanith get forced, and Tanith probably has a 6-8 level edge on her, but seems eminently usable if you don't mind a bit of catchup. 6/10.
Haar(10): Well, FE10 let at least two characters retire and enjoy civilian life. Cute cameo there flying by in 2-P, I wish him well at his delivery service and maybe he can team up with Largo or something. Haar/10.
Janaff(10): Nice stats, doesn't really require any grindin' to be useful in Chapter 4, then will get benched by Naesala / Tibarn (if you're playing "seriously"). 7/10.
Ulki(10): See Janaff. 7/10.
Sigrun: Shockingly okay for someone with base strength & strength growth that bad. She can skirmish with Javelins all day and not steal XP, or double and look for Stun odds, and then be fully healed by next turn since the great Magic makes her an awesome Imbue target. 4/10.
Tanith(10): Decent enough, and will have a level edge on Jill / Marcia. 6/10.
Tibarn(10): Is a git but a sadly powerful one. It took 5 attacks for Feral Ones to drag down untransformed suicidal charging Tibarn in 4-5, which is crazy. 8/10.
Ilyana(10): Wind: 4 damage, 95 Hit. Fire: 5 damage, 90 hit. Thunder: 3 damage, 80 Hit, 5 Crit. One of these is not like the others. And Ilyana makes the problem even worse with bad skill. 2/10.
Tormod(10): XP thief, better to feed any kills he might get in the swamp prisoners level to Volug or Sothe instead if you need Jagening. Designers of FE10, there's this other game I've heard about called "Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones." In it, the twin whose path wasn't chosen comes back in the desert level having actually gained some levels during their adventures. Ephraim / Eirika do not come back at exactly the same level as the beginning of the game as bait to be doubled and die to anything that moves, like a certain Fire Sage does. Sheesh. 1/10.
Calill(10): Useful in Chapter 2. I initially ignored her after the rejoin in Chapter 3... to level her from T2 9 up to T3 16 thanks to Paragon + going with Elincia in Chapter 4. She actually made it to endgame. Anyway, I don't really like Rhys / Laura for the endgame, and Mist / Micaiah can use another Staff user, and she has offense, so yeah. 7/10.
Soren(10): That tier 2 speed cap. What. Is pretty good anyway throughout Chapter 3, but his Tier 3 is gimped even with lucky level-ups due to those terrible Wind Sage stat caps. At least he can use staves. 5/10.
Pelleas: You could have at least challenged Micaiah to a duel to the death, and then she'd have gotten some XP.
Bastian(10): Sure, semi-useful crutch in 4-5 if you needed one, but bad base speed + high level means that fixing that will require grindin' + luck if you want to use him in Endgame. 3/10.
Ena(10): <RandomConsonant> Blood Tide is p. cool for endgame. No offense whatsoever though. 5/10.
Kurthnaga: Uhhh I have no idea. With Paragon, grinding him up isn't too bad! ...except that after he's all set to go kick ass, there's only 4E-4 and 4E-5 left, which aren't really Fire Emblem maps. Gets some credit for being an emergency escape-hatch autovictory on 4E-3 if you need it, I guess. 5/10?
Gareth: Wouldn't you want White Pool for Unlimited Meteor Works with Sanaki anyway? Anyway uh joins too late, no game left.
Nasir(10): Joins too late, no game left.
Laura: You need healing, just never ever let bad guys in range lest she be instantly sliced into many little pieces. 5/10.
Sothe(10): Sure, super useful in the tough Dawn Brigade missions. Eventually his ninja skills waver, but oh well. He can go hunt Spirits in the Endgame at least!!1! Is annoyed by the SS Dagger being total FAQ-bait, too. 8/10.
Heather: Eh, there seemed to be plenty of stuff to steal, and money is a problem in FE10, so I'll take it. Easily higher level than Sothe thanks to not just having the freaking Desert Map to level her Tier 3 on, but Sothe is required anyway for Endgame, so she's kind of screwed there. 6/10.
Rhys(10): See Laura. Also, I believe a period works better than a comma: Rhys. Rhys never changes. 5/10.
Oliver: Sure, Endgame staff spammer if you somehow got too many of them killed, I guess. 2/10.
Volke(10): Pretty strong for 4-5, but Sothe is required for endgame, Baselard is still FAQ-bait, and if you did get it there's only one to go around. Plus endgame has lots of high-DEF types, like hordes of generals, Red Dragons, and the E345 bosses. 4/10.
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Is this where I say my intention to update the topic on Sunday?
...because it totally is happening. I swear that the fact that its April 1st will not mean its me making a stupid joke; its totally coincidental in that regard. I actually wanted to update on the past 2 Sundays but both times most of my day was shot due to getting last minute errands that took up a large part of the day (this won't happen this time since said event is already past)
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oh man, monotonous games with shit gameplay that rely on plot, just my specialty~
(no really, I like Drakengard and hate Devil May Cry)
Aldo: 6/10. Does stuff slightly better than the next few. He's basically Flare, but a little better, IIRC.
Flare: 5/10. Does stuff, doesn't stand out amazingly for doing stuff.
Frederica: 3/10. Meh.
Lo Hak: 3/10. Sure.
Isato: 4/10. Not terrible, I guess.
Lorelai-5: 3/10.
Lu: 2/10. I think. Not like I really remember much here, though.
Urda: 6/10, I guess? Good, but it takes a lot to stand out in a Suiko.
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Final Fantasy 13:
Lightning Farron: 6.28
Sazh Katzroy: 3.94
Snow Villers: 5.67
Oerba Dia Vanille: 6.83
Hope Estheim: 6.44
Oerba Dia Fang: 7.83
Suikoden Archers and Geddoe's Crew:
Kirkis: 6.30
Lorelai-1: 3.90
Rubi: 5.40
Stallion-1: 1.80
Sylvina: 6.40
Ayda: 3.60
Kinnison: 3.80
Lorelai-2: 4.40
Stallion-2: 2.50
Ace: 4.80
Aila: 6.50
Jacques: 3.70
Joker: 5.20
Queen: 5.40
Yuiri: 7.40
Yumi: 7.20
Aldo: 4.90
Flare: 5.50
Frederica: 4.50
Lo Hak: 3.40
Isato: 4.40
Lorelai-5: 5.67
Lu: 3.00
Urda: 5.40
Best Rating of this Session: Fang w/ 7.83
Worst Rating of this Session: Stallion (Suiko 1) w/ 1.80
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
14. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
15t. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
15t. Ax (S5) 1.20
15t. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
18. Squid (FFT) 1.25
19t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
19t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
At this point, i say "To hell with theming!" for Suikoen and am just going down the list alphabetically. I still have some themes I can use but screw it, just makes deciding characters faster.
NOW THAT YOU KNOW THIS, if I happen to miss someone going down alphabetically, feel free to remind me. I did make a list of the entire cast for all games, then deleted all characters already done, and noticed I missed a few (who were already done thereby it didn't matter here), and its possible I missed others.
WITH THAT IN MIND WE ARE MOVING ON!!!
Radiant Historia:
Stocke:
Raynie:
Marco:
Rosch:
Aht:
Gafka:
Eruca:
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji:
Antonio:
Blackman:
Camille:
Clive-1:
Crowley:
Abizboah:
Amada:
Anita:
Badeaux:
Bob:
Chaco:
Chuchara:
Clive-2:
Alanis:
Augustine:
Ayame:
Bazba:
Beecham:
Belle:
Bright:
Connie:
Akaghi:
Ameria:
Axel:
Bartholemew:
Champo:
Charlemagne:
Chiepoo:
Alhazred:
Belcoot:
Bernadette:
Byakuren:
Cathari:
Cius:
Cornelio:
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Wouldn't you want White Pool for Unlimited Meteor Works with Sanaki anyway? Anyway uh joins too late, no game left.
Meteor is 18 wt. You'd need the Str blessing of the gods on Sanaki to get by with just White Pool there.
Anyways.
Radiant Historia:
Stocke: Positioning games, stealing, G-Fire is solid offense once he gets it, has some support stuff to round out the package, and he's even durable. Never exceptional but never terrible. 6/10.
Raynie: Good magic stat, early pickup on the G-element spells, pretty much always available, gameworst MP for some silly reason but MP healing is plentiful so whatever to that. Skillset is sort of ass otherwise though. 6.5/10.
Marco: Even more positioning games than Stocke, Trans-turn, buffs. Items generally take care of healing needs though. His best use is giving people his turns and I'm honestly not sure how much I respect that. 6/10 for now I suppose.
Rosch: Dedicated physical fighter this works in RH right. 2/10.
Aht: Traps are kind of pointless for randoms. Alright enough for bosses when they can be moved, but without them she's basically better dedicated healer than Marco and god knows that doesn't work out well in this game. Edit: Knocking her down to a 4/10. I forgot how much worse traps were for randoms than other options. Reasonable access to battery Area G-Heal outside of battle keeps her from falling below this score, I'd rather spend money on all the MP healing that ever was than grab up more MT HP healing items than what I need for emergencies but this is probably largely a personal quirk.
Gafka: Gets one good trick. Thankfully for him it's one fine trick. 4/10.
Eruca: I've found Eruca's problems to be pretty overstated, but they're still glaringly present. Skillset is awesome once it gets rolling but that takes a while, she isn't Raynie/Marco/Aht so her availability kind of sucks, physically frail, oh and she gets to miss out on 90% of the final chapters whee. 4/10, I can't really justify higher to myself.
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji: Who/10.
Antonio: What/10.
Blackman: Farmer/10.
Camille: Uhhhh okay mage-fighter? Didn't seem exceptional but S1 is the game of mage-fighters. 6/10.
Clive-1: You were in this game?/10.
Crowley: Nyarliedungeon/10.
Abizboah: Who/10.
Amada: Uh, HP?/10.
Anita: Uh falcon rune 5/10
Badeaux: What/10.
Bob: werewolf or something/10.
Chaco: Go away/10.
Chuchara: When/10.
Clive-2: pewpew/10.
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Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 6.5/10. Stocke's got a decent niche of being the main pusher; unlike most anyone else he can push in most directions and do decent damage while he's at it. Otherwise he does a bit of everything else if you need it: durability, magic damage, Air Assault to set up for the heavy hitters, etc. It'd be interesting to tinker with Stocke-free parties but I suspect I'd usually want him around anyway. Plus he's always up to speed level-wise, a plus in this game.
Raynie: 6.5/10. Most available, most durable, and least wallable of the girl cannon PCs, of which you probably want to use one. Doesn't do much else besides cast the spells which make people fall down, but Regen's not a bad buff.
Marco: 7/10. Has a lot of durability and Trans-Turn. It's boring but being able to give either Stocke or your damage-dealer an extra turn as needed, while being able to dump his own offensive stats entirely, makes for the best PC in the game, I think. Oh yeah and he even has the one push direction Stocke misses.
Rosch: 2.5/10. His speed's more workable than I first assumed, but yeesh, level disadvantage plus a lack of standout skillset traits that would make me want to use his near game-worst damage. He'd be better if Stocke wasn't forced.
Aht: 4/10. The most damaging of the cannons when the cards fall her way, but it comes at a cost of target count (crucial for randoms) and some bosses just wall her damage utterly.
Gafka: 4.5/10. Someone else who would be better if Stocke weren't forced. Wind God Strike is amazing and Gafka would be the best PC in the game if he had it for more than like two dungeons. Otherwise he is the most damaging of the pushers, is durable, and is faster/less underlevelled than Rosch, so that's something.
Eruca: 3.5/10. Availability hurts, but at least she has a clear niche of crazy high damage. Might as well pretend she's not an option for the final boss though.
Alanis: 1.5/10. Mage with an 04 magic stat. Ew.
Augustine: 6.5/10. Solid command rune damage, and his durability is... good early, bad late. Interesting certainly.
Ayame: 7/10. Essentially Augustine with less lopsided durability and a killer unite with Landis. I think that balances out to an extra half point.
Bazba: 2/10. Oh man Cyclone off 02 magic and no other rune slots, well at least he is durable in a game where this matters, unlike Alanis.
Beecham: 5/10. Mr. Average.
Belle: 4.5/10. You can tinker with her to make her a decent earth mage but there are several better even at that niche. Of course, S3 being what it is, sometimes you don't have those others.
Bright: 3.5/10. Mounts are weird, and I'm never sure what I think about them. It rarely balances out to anything too high.
Connie: 1/10. Um she can fling Pale Gate off high speed or something oh wait you can use mages with more than one rune slot and more than like 0.25x average durability for that.
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Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 7/10. I really like the setting up that Stocke can do; he is quite stellar at that, as well as being a good around character. Heals, does decent damage, and is generally quite useful.
Raynie: 7/10. The chick who hits bitches with lightning after Stocke pushes them in a little box~
Marco: 8/10. Trans Turn is kind of dumb, which is why I didn't use Marco, but he's good.
Rosch: 4/10. Spotty availability, needs speed twinking to be a viable PC. I used him and he was passable but I couldn't help but thinking he could be better. He has movement stuff at least.
Aht: 4/10. Not sold on traps since they don't work on bosses. She seems like she isn't that much better against randoms than Raynie anyway.
Gafka: 7/10. I've heard that he has a hax movement ability, and generally has good fighter stats. Defies his racial stereotype by actually being good.
Eruca: 3/10. Unbelievably bad availability, envies White Knight Leo. She seems like she'd be a good PC if she wasn't perpetually underlevelled and didn't disappear during the party fusion. As is, I consider her an NPC. <_<
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji: -
Antonio: -
Blackman: 3/10
Camille: 6/10
Clive-1: -
Crowley: 7/10
Abizboah: -
Amada: 4/10
Anita: 6/10
Badeaux: -
Bob: 6/10
Chaco: 4/10
Chuchara: - wtfffffffff
Clive-2: 3/10
Alanis: 1/10 no
Augustine: 7/10. This Rose Knight's pretty good.
Ayame: 7/10.
Bazba: 3/10
Beecham: 4/10
Belle: 3/10
Bright: 3/10
Connie: 1/10
Akaghi: 5/10.
Ameria: -
Axel: 5/10. He's Axel!
Bartholemew:-
Champo:-
Charlemagne: 3/10
Chiepoo: 5/10
Alhazred: 3/10
Belcoot: 7/10
Bernadette: 6.5/10
Byakuren: Hugeass snake/10?
Cathari: 7/10
Cius: 2/10
Cornelio: 2/10, Mediocrity.
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Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 7.5
Raynie: 7
Marco: 8
Rosch: 4
Aht: 8
Gafka: 6
Eruca: 4
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji: 2
Antonio: 2
Blackman: 2
Camille: 6, points for availability
Clive-1: 4
Crowley: 8
Abizboah: 2
Amada: 2
Anita: 5
Badeaux: 2
Bob: 3
Chaco: 3
Chuchara: 2
Clive-2: 5, improved but availability still hurts
Alanis: 4
Augustine: 7
Ayame: 7
Bazba: 5
Beecham: 4.5
Belle: 5, good availability for low-star chapters IIRC
Bright: 6, great with Futch
Connie: 1
Akaghi: 4
Ameria: 4
Axel: 4
Bartholemew: 2
Champo: 2
Charlemagne: ??? I don't remember
Chiepoo: 3, point for availability
Alhazred: 3, point for cool rune
Belcoot: 6, provided you choose him early
Bernadette: 7, surprisingly effective!
Byakuren: 1, usable, but why cheat yourself of the turns?
Cathari: 5, pretty much entirely for the speed
Cius: 1, overwhelmingly terrible even as a warm body IIRC
Cornelio: 2, at least works as a warm body
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Weird. Thought I did these already. Anyway, RH is a game with quite good balance in the abstract compromised by massive favoritism about availability. Stocke / Raynie / Marco is a safe and effective party that you can go through almost the entire dang game with. (Even used it as my original party for the final boss since the other two have a pretty decent grudge to settle, too.) Luckily it's fun to mix up your party anyway, but definitely think that they could have denied them a little more, and Eruca / Rosch / Gafka a little less. That said, slightly above average scores for this kind of cast where everyone has a theoretical role and not a lot of "strictly worse than X."
Stocke - 7/10. Vanilla, but he works. He's got most of the positioning tools, tanks w/ revival, and has decent ST offense. Toward the end of the game, he gets some decent MT spells & positioning too. Healing could be better but oh well. It's a little weird how he switches from being a physical fighter to a mage once G-Fire exists for him, but hey it works either way.
Raynie - 6/10. Reliable offense, hits weaknesses. MT is a bit of a problem, and her physical game falls off fairly quickly, but poison is randomly helpful in the midgame.
Marco - 7/10. Why does your healing fail, Marco. Sigh. Still, weirdly durable thanks to the HP+ swords and good armor, buffs, can trans-turn if you need offense, has Grapple. A bit boring but solid.
Rosch - 3.5/10. His schtick early on is area damage when area damage is rare. In general you don't care too much, since you can do Stocke / Marco positioning -> Raynie zap 3x enemies instead, but it comes up. And then he's MVP against the toughest boss in the game, the Thaumachine. Rosch gets almost all of his points off this shining moment of usefulness, since later in the game everyone else has area attack options too, leaving Rosch with uh good durability. Which isn't good enough. Pretty much a strictly worse option than Gafka for the endgame.
Aht - 6/10. Traps are p. cool. You have to develop a good guessing sense for which bosses can be hit by 'em, but when they do work, which is most of the time, she exterminates 'em pretty fast. Actually has decent MT healing unlike Marco as well. On the downside, questionable durability only somewhat saved by Giant's Cloak or whatever it was called, and you do have to search up hidden goodies for her X Star Traps.
Gafka - 5.5/10 Yeah, what others said. Rosch clone at first, gets broken positioning later, but I'd call Chapters 3-5 the hardest parts of the game so blossoming in Chapter 6-7 isn't as helpful.
Eruca - 5/10. I liked using Eruca but damn. Epic flaws. Starts off a glass cannon without the cannon part. Requires some special hidden goodies to really unload with the broken skills. Gets some of the only pure MT offense in the game that's actually quite solid to slaughter randoms with, and G-Frost for single opponents, and Trans-Turn / some buffs for weird situations... and then disappears for the last two dungeons in the game. And in said second (final) dungeon, off a rather nonsensical plot twist too (didn't the bad guy want to kill her, not capture her, 10 seconds ago?). Pulls her weight in the optional superboss fight, for all that she's required anyway.
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I always just used storebought MT healing items in RH, never really noticed the lack of healing with the Stocke/Raynie/Rosch team.
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Cross Star needs/deserves moar love <3~
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Not really, no.
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Cross Star is even kinda decent, but only works notably well when you're using an already MT-heavy party, in which case you're likely to have spent a lot of time sidequesting for those skills everywhere and that kind of setup borders on overkill (the amount of people Eruca OHKOs with freaking Shine is no joke). Not to mention Cross Star is also like L36, which means Aht has a good 60% of her playtime being horrible, horrible failure on randoms. You underrate just how fucking -bad- she is until she gets that, and it only makes her have a point at all against them instead of instant bench-bait. It doesn't really deserve that much love.
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Aht's fine against randoms early. Drop (normal) Trap, someone else push. For the price of two actions get a dead enemy, or occasionally two dead enemies for trap -> push into stack -> push stack into trap. Overkill against some enemies, sure, but those enemies you weren't scared about to begin with. The number of randoms who survive a trap activation is fairly low. Sure, Eruca once she gets her uber skills is even better at MT random destruction, and Raynie can actually take a hit unlike Eruca / Aht, but you can't have everything.
That said, not so much Cross Star hype here. Star means that Aht isn't dead weight offensively against bosses who can't be pushed, but that's about it. Aht is very much all about trap activation.
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Not to mention that you can just not use her until she levels. The nonparty combatants don't get full exp, but they get more than enough to be kept up to speed for usability.
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It needed more love than it was getting in the topic so far! :P
I like Cross Star because for me it was taking out soldiers 'n stuff in one shot from some dagger Aht had stole from a soldier. For me it was a really solid non trap offence option, Aht was going first and clearing out scrubs in one go and for slightly more durable stuff I found it a decent group launcher for following up with other stuff including another Cross Star since Aht usually gets two turns in a combo. Also I didn't go back and do the majority of sidequests including getting secret skills until I'd already beaten the game :P Maybe it was just because I was jacking Aht's MAG as high as possible that Cross Star was so solid for me even before then but eh I was doing that for everyone (Aht/Eruca/Stocke/Raynie)~
Traps are definitely better but I just think later on Cross Star can be a decent/solid option for randoms too if you can't be bothered with pushing/traps sometimes.
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Aht's fine against randoms early. Drop (normal) Trap, someone else push. For the price of two actions get a dead enemy, or occasionally two dead enemies for trap -> push into stack -> push stack into trap. Overkill against some enemies, sure, but those enemies you weren't scared about to begin with. The number of randoms who survive a trap activation is fairly low. Sure, Eruca once she gets her uber skills is even better at MT random destruction, and Raynie can actually take a hit unlike Eruca / Aht, but you can't have everything.
Most enemies that get killed by Aht's traps get killed by push+Raynie at that point, and the ones who don't often aren't trap-friendly to begin with - and fuck, there are enough unmovable randoms around that there will always be stuff Aht will always be atrocious against. Killing at most two enemies, and, depending on their positioning and movability, less than that is -strictly- worse than killing three-to-four enemies most of the time (it's far easier to manipulate grids into the enemies that don't move, so you can always bunch people into a Raynie spell even with that caveat. Can't say the same for Aht). Aht's traps fail at life against randoms, overkill damage is not what you need against them. And Aht's grid manipulation skills early are -always even worse than Raynie's-, because she not only has NO options for that until the 30s, at that point she gets the same options as Raynie's for even -less- damage. This is kinda academic for Raynie herself, but considering Aht's speed, she's often the one who gets two turns with initiative if she's in the party. That loss is -huge- earlier, and later on you just have better crowd control. Fuck, somehow Aht makes her speed work -against- her sometimes. This is impressive.
Also, "not using a PC" isn't exactly a huge point counting their comparative worth to someone else.
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But it is significantly less damning than characters with low availability that you need to work on late game. I would certainly argue that in terms of in game use a character that is there a lot and eventually gets good without any effort has higher in game use than a good lategame project character.
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Eh, Aht needs the same work to be viable as an endgame boss fighter that Eruca needs to be broken at randoms. Without the Star upgrades, her damage gets practically obsoleted. The argument I was going for there was Aht vs. Raynie, though. Eruca and Aht can slapfight each other for whether they're a 3.5 or a 4.
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Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 7/10. He floats the red mage thing pretty well, enough that the times you'd want to kick him out if you could wuold be pretty niche... meaning his perpetual level advantage gets to shine.
Raynie: 6/10. She kinda sucks until you finally get some magic lances, at which point she does all the damage.
Marco: 6/10. Trans-turn and availability are pretty sweet. That said, aside from trans-turn his main niche is... a bunch of moves Stocke, who you have to use, gets. There's something to be said for having two people who can move enemies around but he's not irreplaceable by any stretch.
Rosch: 3/10. Basically pointless.
Aht: 6/10. I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember that Dancing Death -> G-spell did more damage than 2x G-spell (the result if you had Marco in there giving his turns to Raynie) assuming Aht is failing to break defense (which is normal). So that's her lategame use. Earlier, traps are good, then Star traps have a few times they are horrifically broken but those are really exceptions to be sure.
Gafka: 5/10. Well, if you wanted physical damage you'd go here. The merits of such are debatable, though.
Eruca: 3/10. Y'know, if she was available for the full final dungeon at least, I could see higher. But no.
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji: 2/10. If I don't even remember who you are, fuck it. 2.
Antonio: 2/10.
Blackman: Fenrir/10. Also 2/10.
Camille: 5/10. Statistically adequate, but you already have one of those from the word go.
Clive-1: 2/10. Hello late joining fighter. At least you can hit things. Too bad Viktor has the spot for "pointless fighter you didn't want".
Crowley: 6/10. Cyclone is a pretty useful rune. And honestly I kinda... remember him being easier to stumble across than an actual Cyclone rune. Too bad he only joins after everything but the final.
Abizboah: 2/10. At least, I think he's the one that doesn't screw you out of the good ending.
Amada: 3/10. He's early enough he may well displace someone worse from your party. I think.
Anita: 5/10. She's okay but honestly I don't remember her having the rune slots to milk Falcon as well as she could.
Badeaux: 2/10.
Bob: 4/10. Werewolf form could really last longer, but there are definitely far worse choices.
Chaco: 2/10.
Chuchara: 2/10.
Clive-2: 2/10
Alanis: 2/10.
Augustine: 6/10. By the time you really get to use him, enemies don't tend to fight in ways that let him shine. Still, the damage is there and he's pretty low maintenance.
Ayame: 6/10. See above more or less.
Bazba: 2/10. Poor lizards.
Beecham: 4/10. Generic mcgenericson.
Belle: 3/10. Hello mage fighter. What's that, your affinity is Earth? Well isn't that a shame.
Bright: 4/10. You can do worse than Futch/Bright when you need multiple parties. I've definitely used them to fill out Sarah/Yuber teams before.
Connie: 2/10. If... you could stick the dogs in war battles I could see some Pale Gate hype here, but yeah. sans that, anyone can use Open Gate in a reasonable casting time and there are mages with scores in actual attack magic like Estella.
Akaghi: 3/10. The ninjas are pretty servicable stat wise, at least.
Ameria: 2/10.
Axel: 2/10.
Bartholemew: 2/10.
Champo: 2/10.
Charlemagne: 2/10.
Chiepoo: 4/10. For some reason I forgot which cat was the plot relevant one and thought we already did him. Silly me! Perfectly valid place holder for party members who can use runes.
Alhazred: Abstain.
Belcoot: 5/10. I recall Falcon having some limitation that held him back from true greatness.
Bernadette: 5/10.
Byakuren: Abstain
Cathari: Abstain
Cius: Abstain
Cornelio: Abstain
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I very much doubt Dancing Death -> G-element would outdamage G-element -> G-element, since Dancing Death doesn't give *that* many hits, not that it'd be worth using Aht over Marco for that anyways.
At any rate, I love how people keep saying traps are good against randoms when quite a number of immovable randoms exist at pretty much all points throughout the game and that they largely do nothing against the ones that *can* be moved that can't be accomplished *with less setup* through other means. I used traps for randoms, but that was because I liked messing with the combat system and seeing how much tomfoolery I could get away with there, not because it was by any means a good idea. Which hey, guess what, *it wasn't*.
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The short version is that there weren't THAT many immovable randoms I cared about, and I definitely recall that in the midgame there were a decent number of enemies who didn't die to Raynie damage (especially before Raynie gets G-Element spells, but after, too) but died to a trap. It's a bit closer if you compare Raynie spell + Stocke Power Wave rather than Aht trap + Stocke Push, although you save some MP by using the uber-cheap push, and enemies will be kind enough to walk into traps themselves occasionally sparing you the trouble of the action.
I also am the same as Random in that I used Aht because it was more fun to troll enemies than directly zap them. But I didn't feel it was a handicap. Raynie absolutely is more consistent, can take hits, etc. but I can't really see TOO big a difference between the two in random fighting.
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I'm actually blanking on the majority of immovable randoms tbh. Pigs, bears, etc can all still be moved despite their size. The only immovables which come to mind offhand are crystals. Maybe hanging venus fly trap plants and ... mushrooms? The crystal things were mostly a late game issue if I remember right but I was using Cross Star/Cross Star x 2 by then. Cross Star/Cross Star x 2 group launch > Eruca nuke combo is pretty sweet nice too :)
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I can count the ten billion vines, half the plants in existence (and there are -multiple- dungeons where those were commonplace), a few robots... yeah. Most huge enemies -aren't- immobile, and traps shine against them because they can hit twice! HOWEVER, huge randoms themselves are actually sorta rare. They tend to be optional bosses instead. Also, it bears noting that most RH randoms tend to have upwards of six/seven randoms, which limits the trap setup further due to less space to drop them into and easily push enemies around. And if you're killing less enemies than the amount of turns you get before the enemy force in RH randoms (a borderline inevitability with traps on randoms), you're usually doin' it wrong. The game has a pretty notable stint where Aht is a forced member well before she gets Star Traps and Cross Star, and dear god that part burned into my head the "Aht fucking fails at randoms" mantra. Aht gets better with grinding, I guess, but that benefits EVERYBODY, and guess what? Raynie and Eruca benefit from that likely more.
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Anji: 2/10. If you don't remember them from Suikoden 1, they sucked.
Antonio: 2/10. See above.
Blackman: 2/10. Ok, I remember him and he has a strong weapon! ...pity this means jack shit.
Camille: 4/10. I think she qualified as having decent well rounded stats.
Clive-1: 3/10. Meeeh.
Crowley: 6/10. Is a competent Mage with a good run, that's much more than you can say about a lot of this cast.
Abizboah: 2/10. Suikoden Monster, not worth much.
Amada: 3/10. Suiko 2 Scrubs aren't as pathetic as Suiko 1 scrubs.
Anita: 6/10. Falcon Rune.
Badeaux: 3/10. See Amada.
Bob: 4/10. Cute rune but not really worth that much.
Chaco: 3/10. I think?
Chuchara: 1/10. Doesn't this character stop you from getting all 108 stars? Yeah, that's worthless. Tempted to give it 0/10 but I don't think its THAT bad as a character in battle.
Clive-2: 3/10. MEEEEEH mark 2.
Alanis: 3/10. How NOT to be a decent Suikoden 3 mage.
Augustine: 6/10. Some good twinkable offense.
Ayame: 7/10. Shrike Rune and Condemnation is a nice unite.
Bazba: 1/10. Lizards suck.
Beecham: 5/10. Passable filler.
Belle: 3/10. Earth affinity? Yeah, no.
Bright: 2/10. Suiko Monsters generally suck.
Connie: 1/10. Suikodogs are that bad, I'll give it a point for the unite though.
Akaghi: 4/10. He's fast...or something.
Ameria: 3/10. Whatever.
Axel: 3/10. Yeah...
Bartholemew: 3/10. I don't even remember you.
Champo: 2/10. I remember him being worse than the average Suiko 4 scrub so...
Charlemagne: 3/10. Suikoscrub,.
Chiepoo: 4/10. Suikoscrub, gets a point for early game usage, and still being the #4 character after your first recruit (yes, its Ornan or whatever, but shh!)
Alhazred: 3/10.
Belcoot: 6/10. Overall solid but nothing special.
Bernadette: 6/10. Remember her being a decent healer with no real downsides.
Byakuren: 3/10. Meh.
Cathari: 7/10. Twinkable.
Cius: 3/10. Meh.
Cornelio: 4/10. I tried using him as a mage, but wasn't impressed.
Yes, Suikoscrubs I don't remember get an auto 3/10, outside of Suikoden 1 where they get 2/10 because Suikoscrub in S1 is notably bigger failures.
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Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 6.5/10. He just fills the red mage niche pretty well. Second-best ST grid manipulator is worth -tons- and he can help your offense more than you'd think with Air Assault. Being a durable and fast reviver is toodles too. Too bad about the huge lag on his offense, though.
Raynie: 6/10. For most of the game, she's your best cannon, and she's -always- up there for that. Okay durability and speed don't hurt either.
Marco: 7.5/10. Probably game-best PC. Trans-turn is godly, his durability is solid, he's -amazingly- low-maintenance and his ST grid manipulation powers (huge huge) are game-best bar none. GT sleep even gives him a window in which he's just awesome against randoms instead of just quite solid. His healing takes forever to get good, but see how much I care with RH healing items.
Rosch: 2/10. He seriously gets that level of availability to sport shoddy damage and being outdone at all his niches by the likes of Gafka and even -Aht-? Yeah no. Rosch's durability is worthless to boot, he has no way to exploit it against enemies and doesn't get stuff like revival (if you can't draw fire, you -want- to have means to keep the party alive to explore your durability. Stocke does that pretty well!). Fail.
Aht: 4/10. Half a point for the availability and another half-point for the utter mangling of bosses she does lategame. Aht's pretty much game-worst PC at randoms, and being the better healer in RH is a poor niche when items are so fucking good and almost always more powerful than healing spells.
Gafka: 5/10. Has grid manipulation and okay damage, I guess. Gets half a point for turning utterly broken lategame, Wind God Strike is wtfffffffffffffffff.
Eruca: 4/10. I really want to like Eruca more than I do - the skillset is freaking amazing once it gets going and she has godly magic to use it with. You could complain about the bad offense early, but she practically -starts- with Trans-turn and gets MT offense buffs from the get-go, which isn't a bad start. Then she gets wtf offense with G-Frost - and not far, either! - and then she gets godly crowd control if you bother with sidequest skills and... and... then she basically never exists. Losing like ten levels worth of XP on the final dungeon is just insulting. Sigh. She'd have a case for MVP if she had Aht's availability.
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji: 3/10. Man, he's actually not slow. Still, don't care about the unite and not a mage.
Antonio: 2/10. Maximum 128 magic at L99, aw yeah.
Blackman: 2/10. See Antonio.
Camille: 4/10. Alen magic is okay, but the stats elsewhere and no rune? Eh, not exciting me. Cleo basically obsoletes her before she joins anyway.
Clive-1: 2/10. pure physical fighters in s1 with no special runes oh boy
Crowley: 6/10. Crowley's speed is adequate, his magic is ridiculous and S1 Cyclone Rune is good stuff. Not bad, even considering the durability failure.
Abizboah: 2/10. suikoden 2 monster two slots for failure aw yeah
Amada: 3/10. Pure fighter with only one rune slot and no stand-out stats. I'm impressed.
Anita: 5/10. I guess Falcon Rune and solid non-speed stats is nice. But so outclassed by Valeria and her second rune slot opens up so late.
Badeaux: 2/10. Cs across the board on stats and your niche is powering up -monsters-. Um.
Bob: 4/10. I guess he could do worse than Rabid Fang+free slot well before Anita. Still not great.
Chaco: 4/10. three ruen slots running off Cs across the board for stats omg
Chuchara: 2/10. Suikoden 2 monster.
Clive-2: 2/10. One free rune slot on a pure physical fighter in S2 with no command runes. Why bother?
Alanis: 2/10. 04 MAGIC ON A PURE MAGE. Also look at those sexy owned-by-Chris affinities.
Augustine: 6.5/10. One of your carry-throughs on Thomas chapters, and decently competent elsewhere. Concrete durability steadily grows worse, but his offense is very solid.
Ayame: 7/10. Augustine with less durability, but a crazy good unite. Works.
Bazba: 2/10. Holy crap. What a waste of a Cyclone Rune.
Beecham: 3/10. Um free water rune i guess
Belle: 3/10. Mage-fighter who specializes on -Earth-. Woohoo.
Bright: 3.5/10. I guess he's okay when he's with Hugo and you can mount.
Connie: 0.5/10. If I wanted someone slinging Pale Gates I'd just use Sasarai.
Akaghi: 3/10. Fast or something.
Ameria: 6/10. Hey, fast mage! Guess she makes an okay Wind Rune user due to that 4 on it.
Axel: 3/10. Um why.
Bartholemew: 3/10. Um -why-.
Champo: 2/10. See above.
Charlemagne: 3/10. I guess he could get a Red Rose rune, but who the heck cares.
Chiepoo: 4/10. Less useless than Tal early.
Alhazred: 3/10. Slow short-range mage in S5 without interesting runes. Yeah.
Belcoot: 5/10. Okay enough.
Bernadette: 6/10. That magic score is amazing, the durability is better than your typical mage's and she's long-ranged. Not bad, though she could use speed.
Byakuren: 2/10. Who the hell are you.
Cathari: 7/10. Unsurpassed at ST physical death and faster than everything ever. Too bad she only ever gets one swing, but them's the breaks.
Cius: 2/10. what.
Cornelio: 2/10. Hell.
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Glad to see people actually voting in this topic again~
Anyway, casts I missed:
Anji: 4.5/10. He lacks magic, but his skill and speed are both good, and Pirate is a strong unite.
Antonio: 3/10. Mediocre, though at least isn't slow.
Blackman: 2.5/10. Slower.
Camille: 6/10. Solid in all the important stats, but unexceptional.
Clive-1: 4/10. He's okay.
Crowley: 5.5/10. I prefer fighter/mages to pure mages since I don't find their extra spell charges worth the loss of decent physical and durability but Crowley is still fine.
Abizboah: 1.5/10. He took up two slots right? Yeah no. He has decent MT damage at least.
Amada: 4/10. Unremarkable and meh.
Anita: 6/10. Falcon Rune's a good toy.
Badeaux: 2.5/10. I'm not sure what his niche is.
Bob: 4/10. Now I know what his niche is, it's just not a very good one.
Chaco: 5.5/10. Good rune twinking potential if you decide you care.
Chuchara: DNR. No, seriously, nobody gets him.
Clive-2: 2/10. Um yeah, not sure where this twinking hype is coming from, he has one rune slot and his physical is awful.
Akaghi: 4.5/10. Surprisingly good all-around stats, except str/mag. And you do want at least one of those. Oh well.
Ameria: 6.5/10. Huh, she's surprisingly good, nice durability and magic and speed and 4 wind.
Axel: 4/10. Unimpressive pure fighter, but there's worse.
Bartholemew: 2.5/10. Bleh, that terrible type of pure fighter Suikoscrub.
Champo: 4/10. Fast!
Charlemagne: 3/10. Also bad, though not as bad as Bart.
Chiepoo: 5/10. Surprisingly decent fighter.
Alhazred: 2/10. Pure mage who is bad at it.
Belcoot: 6.5/10. Weird to have a defensive Falcon user, but still a very solid point man.
Bernadette: 6/10. Pure mage with loads of durability. Not bad.
Byakuren: 2/10. Can freeze bosses at least, but otherwise, L-size monster.
Cathari: 7.5/10. The best two-free-slot fighter.
Cius: 2/10. Uh he is durable.
Cornelio: 2/10. Mediocrity.
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Yay! Means I can actually update soonish!
Oh, Elfboy, if its not too much trouble, could you delete the unrated characters in your initial post? Just makes things a little easier for me.
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Radiant Historia:
Stocke: 6.78
Raynie: 6.43
Marco: 7.07
Rosch: 3.00
Aht: 5.14
Gafka: 5.29
Eruca: 3.79
Suikoden ABCs:
Anji: 2.70
Antonio: Antonio 2.20
Blackman: 2.25
Camille: 5.25
Clive-1: 3.00
Crowley: 6.36
Abizboah: 1.90
Amada: 3.17
Anita: 5.43
Badeaux: 2.30
Bob: 4.17
Chaco: 3.58
Chuchara: N/A
Clive-2: 2.83
Alanis: 2.25
Augustine: 6.50
Ayame: 6.83
Bazba: 2.50
Beecham: 4.25
Belle: 3.58
Bright: 3.67
Connie: 1.08
Akaghi: 3.92
Ameria: 4.30
Axel: 3.50
Bartholemew: 2.50
Champo: 2.40
Charlemagne: 2.80
Chiepoo: 4.17
Alhazred: 2.80
Belcoot: 6.00
Bernadette: 6.08
Byakuren: N/A
Cathari: 6.70
Cius: 2.00
Cornelio: 2.40
Highest Rating of this session: Marco w/ 7.07
Lowest Rating of this session: Connie w/ 1.08
Byakuren and Chuchara did not get enough ratings, therefor have been punted.
Top 20 Ratings:
1t. Ryu (BoF3) 9.80
1t. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
3. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
4. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
5. Souji Seta (P4) 9.44
6. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
7. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
8. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
9. Haar (FE10) 9.17
10t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
10t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
12. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
13. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
14. Summoner (FF5) 8.96
15. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
16. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
17. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
18. Tana (FE8) 8.73
19. Purim (SoM) 8.70
20. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
Top 20 Failures:
1. Tree (FFT) 0.50
2. Rei (SaGa) 0.67
3. Karla (FE7) 0.77
4t. Red Turnip (SaGa) 0.8
4t. Slime (SaGa) 0.8
6. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
7. Silence (SaGa) 0.92
8. Marlboro (FFT) 0.93
9. Uribo (FFT) 0.94
10. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
11. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
12. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
13. Connie 1.08
14. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
15. Skeleton (FFT) 1.13
16t. Goblin (FFT) 1.20
16t. Ax (S5) 1.20
17t. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
19. Squid (FFT) 1.25
20t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
20t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
I need to be more efficient, but that would require overcoming laziness...
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina:
Ryu:
Fou-lu:
Ershin:
Cray:
Scias:
Ursula:
Suikoden DEFG:
Eikei:
Eileen:
Fu Su Lu:
Fuiken:
Fuma:
Futch:
Gen:
Gon:
Griffith:
Feather:
Freed Y:
Futch:
Gabocha:
Gadget:
Gantetsu:
Gengen:
Genshu:
Gijimu:
Duke:
Dupa:
Edge:
Elaine:
Emily:
Estella:
Franz:
Fred:
Fubar:
Futch:
Gadget Z:
Gau-3:
Eugene:
Gau-4:
Gretchen:
Dinn:
Eresh:
Ernst:
FaSoLa:
Faylen:
Faylon:
Gavaya:
Goesch:
Gunde:
Yes, I know Gau and Gau are two different characters, but to avoid problems for checking results, I've just given them the usual number distinction.
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Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 8
Ryu: 9
Fou-lu: 5
Ershin: 4
Cray: 3
Scias: 7
Ursula: 7
Suikoden DEFG:
Eikei: 4
Eileen: 8
Fu Su Lu: 4
Fuiken: 4
Fuma: 4
Futch: 5 - Kinda bad, but gets warm body points
Gen: 2
Gon: 2
Griffith: 3
Feather: 4
Freed Y: 5
Futch: 6
Gabocha: 3
Gadget: 4
Gantetsu: 4
Gengen: 4
Genshu: 4
Gijimu: 4
Duke: 6 - Good, but low availability
Dupa: 3
Edge: 6 - Decent, and good availability
Elaine: 6 - see Duke
Emily: 7.5 - really good!
Estella: 6.5 - All those runes
Franz: 6.5 - Good, but low availability, good unites, and I like the mounted PCs
Fred: 7.5 - Important warm body, good stats too
Fubar: 7 - Vital part of the Hugo Fucks Things Up Beyond All Repair combo.
Futch: 9 - Suiko 2 import data makes him a god
Gadget Z: 3 - eh
Gau-3: 3 - eh, and low availability
Eugene:
Gau-4:
Gretchen:
Dinn: 4.5 - Decent warm body
Eresh: 6 - Good mage, but low availability and locks you out of EURAM BAROWS
Ernst: 8 - Actually quite good and unique
FaSoLa: 1.5 - Clearly a god
Faylen: 6.5 - I remember the sister was quite good and had some fun unites
Faylon: 3 - whereas the brother was only ever in my party because he could unite with his sister
Gavaya: 3 - harder to recruit than he should be.
Goesch: 4
Gunde: 4
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don't really feel like commentary right now
Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 8.5/10
Ryu: 7/10
Fou-lu: DNR
Ershin: 4/10
Cray: 2/10
Scias: 6/10
Ursula: 7/10
Suikoden DEFG:
Eikei: who/10
Eileen: 7/10
Fu Su Lu: 3/10
Fuiken: who/10
Fuma: who/10
Futch: 3/10
Gen: 2/10
Gon: 2/10
Griffith: who/10
Feather: 2/10
Freed Y: 4/10
Futch: 3/10
Gabocha: 2/10
Gadget: 3/10
Gantetsu: who
Gengen: 2/10
Genshu: 0.5/10 oh right I expunged his failure at existing from my mind.
Gijimu: 4/10
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Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 9/10. Best healer, best speed, best magic, best AP, and the more important half of the combo magic of doom setup that dominates randoms. I guess she has bad durability and mediocre ST damage (which doesn't matter that much because she heals in fights where ST is most important) so she's not a 10 or something.
Ryu: 7/10. Dragons make him very solid in bosses. Unremarkable in randoms.
Fou-lu: DNR
Ershin: 3/10. Pretty consistently mediocre. Durable but the game doesn't call for it.
Cray: 3.5/10. Good damage against bosses for much of the game, that is something at least. Dead weight in randoms.
Scias: 6.5/10. Cray who doesn't suck in randoms. Also has some healing I suppose.
Ursula: 8/10. The other half of the randomsweeping of doom team. And has good ST damage, not that this outweighs everything Nina does better than her.
Suikoden DEFG:
Eikei: 4/10. He's a bit slow, but he can attack two enemies a turn and his skill doesn't fail, so there are worse fighter options.
Eileen: 7/10. High magic and speed.
Fu Su Lu: 2/10. Your typical bad S1 fighter.
Fuiken: 4/10. I guess he can revive people, but that's what Flowing is for.
Fuma: 4/10. Pure fighter who doesn't suck, but still a S1 pure fighter.
Futch: 4/10. See Fuma, really.
Gen: 3.5/10. Not atrocious, but...
Gon: 2.5/10. Bad.
Griffith: 3/10. Hey, I remember him! Kinda liked him for some reason. But he's another Suikoscrub.
Feather: 4/10. Fighter with a bit of an MT focus, actually solid against flyers.
Freed Y: 4/10. All-rounder.
Futch: 4/10. As above.
Gabocha: 2.5/10. Futch without the durability and down a rune slot.
Gadget: 3/10. Decent tank for a bit.
Gantetsu: 3/10. Blah stats everywhere.
Gengen: 3/10. Well he's better than Gabocha I guess.
Genshu: 1.5/10. Useless samurai man. Aw yeah no (useful) rune slots.
Gijimu: 4/10. He has solid stats, but only one rune slot.
Duke: 2.5/10. A bit of a joke on the game designers' part I'm sure. 1 swing and mediocre magic affinities torpedo his solid all-around stats.
Dupa: 3/10. Fury Rune smash. Too bad he's slow and can't do anything but smash, and isn't even that special at smash.
Edge: 6/10. Solid all-rounder who manages to actually excel at the job somewhat, unlike Duke.
Elaine: 6.5/10. Better all-rounder still. Actually I kinda respect the Duke troupe, they join with high levels/weapons/lots of skill points right before you need to suddenly balloon your party size, too bad two of them suck.
Emily: 8.5/10. Smash you all.
Estella: 4.5/10. Rarely see much point for pure mages in Suikoden, and this is the Suikoden tilted most against them probably. Still, she's very good at boss nuking and probably the best of her group.
Franz: 3/10. lol whatever
Fred: 5.5/10. Competent enough tank.
Fubar: 5/10. *shrug*
Futch: 4/10. Mediocre.
Gadget Z: 2/10. Awesome, but no rune slots means failure.
Gau-3: 5.5/10. Solid fighter, see above comments about Duke troupe.
Eugene: 5/10. Firefly tank with some magic, but ew at the speed.
Gau-4: 3/10. Fast, but no magic = limited rune slots forever. Meh.
Gretchen: 5/10. Tank, other stats average. Eh sure.
Dinn: 5/10. Respectable tank.
Eresh: 5/10. No rune freedom but decent past that.
Ernst: 6/10. I guess he can own bosses.
FaSoLa: DNR get out
Faylen: 5/10. Think she was workable filler.
Faylon: 3/10. Think he wasn't.
Gavaya: 4/10. Kinda mediocre all-around, but good potential at level 55!! Whatever.
Goesch: 4/10. As above.
Gunde: 2.5/10. Too slow to be worth a damn.
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oh hey time for more random plays catchup in a topic that dies for weeks at a time
Wild ARMs Advanced 3rd:
Virginia Maxwell: um yeah. Only relevent flaws are bad durability which gets fixed quickly and low attack power against bosses which gets fixed once Valiant comes into play. Meanwhile, Mystic is ridiculous, ARM twinking has ridiculous potential through 10-shot gatling shenanigans, game best stat spread in practice due to Summon basically being god against randoms and her problems being the easiest to fix... yeah, just basically manhandles the game. Gets kept out of the highest echelons of broken due to needing some time to achieve that level of manhandling though. 9/10.
Gallows Caradine: Extension is pretty great for support, and the speed is even salvageable so he can nail randoms with Summon that Ginny has problems with thanks to his superior magic stat. Might as well pretend his physical isn't even an option though, and his durability would be nicer to have if enemies were more competent. 7/10.
Jet Enduro: Helloooooo, whatever boy. You basically need Clive's attack stat to make me care about physical damage output since Valiant exists and Jet even has some accuracy issues to boot, and on top of that gameworst magic stat by a country mile, so he's basically hopeless against randoms. The problems can be fixed, but like others said, WA3 rewards specialization to an absurd degree, so basically he just ends up being an item caddy and a replay whore, which ultimately does not fill me with the carings. 3/10.
Clive Winslett: Insane attack power, is the most useful character before Ginny and Gallows pick up steam because of it, and once they do he's still solid because he doesn't need puny buffs to smack bosses around, and the power/accuracy combo lets him not embarrass himself against randoms like Jet does. 7/10.
oh hey double feature meeple update your damn topic.
Wild ARMs 4th Detonator:
Jude Maverick: Mystic off of that speed ensures that he's not actually *bad* and he is at least durable and accurate but yeesh could that OC set be more unimpressive and lolshapeshifter. 5/10.
Arnaud G. Vasquez: Slow Down is great. Other tricks are p. nice too and he even can get decent damage though that is obviously more situational. Also evasion and good mdef are wonderful. 9/10.
Yulie Ahtreide: Die to a sneeze less. Healing is also outdone by items but thankfully that's not really her point. FP Advantage/Quicken/Turn Shift/Protect are all pretty great and once she gets rolling she's uh more useful than Jude at least. 6/10.
Raquel Applegate: Oh look crazy high damage. Too bad about the speed being complete trash, and *this matters*. At least she can mitigate this flaw so she's still good, but yeesh. 7/10.
Kresnik Ahtreide: Hello you stick around for basically no amount of time I don't care about you you ridiculously emo tosser.
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Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 9/10. Textbook example of an overpowered character whose not quite stupid broken!
Ryu: 7/10. Excellent at Bosses, merely decent at everything else, yeah this works.
Fou-lu: Too Fucking Awesome/10.
Ershin: 5/10. God Awful first half of the game, potentially amazing second half, but requires you to actually build her with that forethought...so yeah, average rating.
Cray: 3/10. He's usable and all, but agme is not kind to his build at all. Slow, low AP, and any gimmick set ups that'd be useful on him like Super combo Focus Last Resort nonsense lose their purpose due to the ball-lightning nature of the game.
Scias: 7/10. Actually useful Physical fighter. Fast, hits hard, Shining Blade and the AP to support semi-consistent usage of it, and has an actual magic score to fill in as a Magic Combo fighter. Secondary healer never hurts.
Ursula: 8/10. Nina's partner in crime, basically having everyhting Nina has AND an MT physical, though lacks the Healing. Losing trade overall! She's still amazing.
Suikoden DEFG:
Eikei: 3/10. Suikoscrub.
Eileen: 7/10. Oh hey, an adequate mage, and even comes with a passable Rune.
Fu Su Lu: 2/10. Having used him personally, I can safely say he's complete garbage.
Fuiken: 3/10. Flowing Rune is easily gotten and basically obsoletes this guy yes.
Fuma: 3/10. Pure fighter Suikoscrub, whee!
Futch: 3/10. More of the same.
Gen: 3/10. Ditto here!
Gon: 2/10. Sub-par Suikoscrub...wrap your head around that one.
Griffith: 3/10. Suikoscrub.
Feather: 3/10. Good stats and a good unite and-...oh, takes up 2 character slots *flushes*
Freed Y: 3/10. Generic Bad.
Futch: 3/10. Ditto.
Gabocha: 2/10. Subpar Suikoscrub.
Gadget: 4/10. He's a tank, which gives him SOMETHING over the above.
Gantetsu: 3/10. Suikoscrub.
Gengen: 3/10. Suikoden Kobolds, the fail is special!
Genshu: 2/10. Scrubby AND gotten really late; loses a point for that alone.
Gijimu: 4/10. He's ok, but yeah.
Duke: 3/10. Scrubby. How is this guy GEDDOE'S ETERNAL RIVAL!!! again?
Dupa: 2/10. Suikoden Lizard. They are special.
Edge: 5.5/10. Decent at stuff, but merely decent.
Elaine: 6/10. More Decent at stuff.
Emily: 8/10. Fast and kills things dead.
Estella: 5/10. Good Mage. In the game where "Pure Mage" suddenly stopped being dominant offensive force.
Franz: 3/10. Unspecial.
Fred: 5/10. Good tank! Pity offense matters more.
Fubar: 4/10. Unspecial, though he's around for a while, so I guess half a point for that or something.
Futch: 4/10. Meh...
Gadget Z: 2/10. I love the guy and all but his uses are limited...
Gau-3: 5/10. Hey, a Kobold who doesn't completely suck! Not amazing or anything, but he doesn't embarrass himself.
Eugene: 4/10. I guess...
Gau-4: 3/10. I remember using him in some area and he sucked because pure fighter.
Gretchen: 5/10. Pure Tank w/ no offense.
Suikoden 5 I don't remember as well, so I'm just gonna copy Elfboy with one change!
Dinn: 5/10. Respectable tank.
Eresh: 5/10. No rune freedom but decent past that.
Ernst: 5/10. I'd respect Boss Owning more if bosses were more prominent throughout the game, and I seem to recall that once you factor out the garbage like, say, Zahak, there weren't many GENUINE bosses.
FaSoLa: DNR get out
Faylen: 5/10. Think she was workable filler.
Faylon: 3/10. Think he wasn't.
Gavaya: 4/10. Kinda mediocre all-around, but good potential at level 55!! Whatever.
Goesch: 4/10. As above.
Gunde: 2.5/10. Too slow to be worth a damn.
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Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 8.5/10
Ryu: 6/10
Fou-lu: DNR
Ershin: 4/10
Cray: 3.5/10
Scias: 6/10
Ursula: 7.5/10
Suikoden III:
Duke: 2/10.
Dupa: 3/10.
Edge: 6/10.
Elaine: 7/10
Emily: 8.5/10.
Estella: 3/10.
Franz: 2.5/10.
Fred: 5.5/10.
Fubar: 5/10.
Futch: 4/10.
Gadget Z: 2/10.
Gau-3: 5/10.
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Breath of Fire 4:
Nina: 9/10. I'm not sure I need to add commentary for her? People have said good things so far.
Ryu: 8/10. Boss-prepared. Standard character, and much better in triples of either Nina, Scias and Ryu or Ryu, Nina and Ursula.
Fou-lu: 10/10. Really. Really, really. You should learn that quite early in the game.
Ershin: 6/10. Okay. Ershin crits are awesome, I am not going to lie. Unfortunately you don't need her crits later in the game and no dungeon really requires her presence. I tried liking Ershin, I did - felt like Ershin would be BoF3 Peco, but nope.
Cray: 3/10. Pretty useless, even in the beginning and way too slow to boot.
Scias: 8/10. Scias is pretty pimp and on Ryu level for two reasons: he fills in where Ryu fails and is as swift as the wind. Very much interchangeable with late-game Ursula, plus his specials are pretty nice.
Ursula: 9/10. My favorite character out of the entire group. Good ATK, balanced character, multi-phys attacks, great combo fuser, Revival. Bad accuracy. Would be 8/10 if she wasn't my favorite character.
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Ursula: 9/10. My favorite character out of the entire group. Good ATK, balanced character, multi-phys attacks, great combo fuser, Revival. Bad accuracy. Would be 8/10 if she wasn't my favorite character.
Then give her an 8/10. This isn't a topic where favoritism is suppose to effect ratings.
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Imagine I put the 8/10 there since it's already mentioned.
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Breath of Fire 4:
Eh, fuck it. Don't remember this game at a party usefulness level.
Suikoden DEFG:
Eikei: 2/10.
Eileen: 6/10. Pretty good, but it's Suikoden 1. Easy to replace.
Fu Su Lu: 2/10. Almost certainly a generic fighter.
Fuiken: 4/10. Hm. Res rune if I'm not mistaken. I forget if Suikoden 1 gave you many of those but honestly it's a bad rune aside from revival and you don't NEED that in Suikoden 1.
Fuma: 2/10
Futch: 2/10
Gen: 2/10
Gon: 2/10
Griffith: 2/10
Feather: 2/10.
Freed Y: 3/10. He holds his own more or less when they force him on you but there's no compelling reason to put him in the party voluntarily I think.
Futch: 3/10. Pretty much as above.
Gabocha: 2/10.
Gadget: 2/10
Gantetsu: 2/10. Man I mixed this dude up with Genshu for a second. Like hell I remember what he did otherwise.
Gengen: 2/10.
Genshu: 2/10. Yeah, I know. But it's not like you have to use him.
Gijimu: 4/10. Not great, no bad, but good taste in runes to start with. *yoink*
Duke: 3/10. He has some value in war battles just because you can throw his crew in a unit and they won't embarrass themselves but even then it's not a great option. Among the worst in the cast outside that.
Dupa: 3/10. Lizards suck, but as above you can quickly get Dupa into some sort of fighting trim for war battles at least.
Edge: 3/10. Random mediocre fighter with a minor in not utterly sucking at magic. Not a great build for this game.
Elaine: 3/10. She's got the stats but not the skills. Or was it the other way around? Anyway, water runers are a dime a dozen here.
Emily: 8/10. Punch it until its dead.
Estella: 6/10. Estelle's easily the best non-Geddoe mage, having S ranks in both offensive magics. How useful that is... eh, she'll generally make one of the split parties in the endgame, at least for me.
Franz: 3/10. See edge. I find Franz/Ruby less tempting than the other mounted pairs.
Fred: 4/10. Best all-around tank, I think. I don't find that super useful in Suikoden III but it's a niche.
Fubar: 5/10. The raw offensive punch of Hugo/Fubar is pretty nice while you build up Hugo's skills, and I've definitely opted for it in the endgame although it's probably not that great an idea.
Futch: 4/10. What'd I give bright? 4? 'kay.
Gadget Z: 2/10. Not much to him. Monster in a game not friendly to them.
Gau-3: 4/10. Probably the best duke crew member out of the box? Hits reasonably hard and doesn't fall over easily.
Eugene: 2/10
Gau-4: 2/10
Gretchen: 2/10. Dammit Suikoden IV.
Dinn: 3/10. There's better tanks.
Eresh: 3/10. Interesting on paper but not worth the effort.
Ernst: 6/10. Ernst is neat. My memory is that his damage type (dark maybe?) isn't terribly resisted, and the stun move has some value here and there.
FaSoLa: Abstain
Faylen: Abstain
Faylon: Abstain
Gavaya: Abstain
Goesch: Abstain
Gunde: Abstain
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Elaine: 3/10. She's got the stats but not the skills. Or was it the other way around? Anyway, water runers are a dime a dozen here.
Elaine has fine (unexceptional) stats and an A in Lightning, which a storebought Wizard Hat and a spare Lightning Magic Ring can make an S. She's basically Estella trading some magic charges for a 3-swing physical and better durability, and I will take that trade in Suikoden 3 any day.
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*pokes topic* Hey Meeple, where is my next batch of Suikoscrubs to mock?
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#fedl thread hijack time, now that we've all had time to play through the game once or thrice, it's thread-necro time. Huge cast is huge, so just one game.
Obligatory note: This is just an excuse to chat about the cast. Character rankings can and will vary by difficulty level, by Casual vs. Classic, by normal endgame vs. free postgame vs. all DLC, by no grinding / occasional grinding / lots of grinding. That's okay, just use whatever rating you feel fits. 3/10, φ/ π, Ko/Meeple, it's all good.
Fire Emblem: Awakening
Chrom
Avatar
Lissa
Frederick
Sully
Virion
Stahl
Vaike
Miriel
Sumia
Lon'qu
Donnel
Ricken
Maribelle
Panne
Gaius
Cordelia
Gregor
Nowi
Libra
Tharja
Anna
Olivia
Cherche
Henry
Say'ri
Tiki
Basilio
Flavia
Lucina
Owain
Inigo
Brady
Kjelle
Cynthia
Severa
Gerome
Morgan
Yarne
Laurent
Noire
Nah
Gangrel
Walhart
Emmeryn
Yen'fay
Aversa
Priam
SpotPass characters
DLC characters
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As far as I'm concerned, Awakening is a well-balanced cast, barring a few well-known outliers. I could easily see fitting most of the cast from 5-7, but that'd be boring, so I've exaggerated a tad. I've additionally been nice and generally weighted characters more toward where they shine - the aftergame matters more for the kids (almost all of whom would be a bit meh for the normal lategame due to spending it in catch-up mode) and less for the adults (many of whom are a bit meh then!). So yeah, results in an inflated average, which is good, that means that most of the characters at least have some niche where they're authentically good.
Characters I haven't used seriously in my 3 playthroughs get a ?.
Chrom - 7/10. Most reliable front-line beater early, hits 3 weaknesses between Falchion & Rapiers, gets Aether hax & Javelins late. A bit nervous to send him against true hordes alone, though, as his Aether/dodging rate isn't always reliable.
Avatar - 9/10. It's pretty hard for the Avatar not to be the best - even if you hate Tactician, Robin can Second Seal to whatever your favorite class is and have the right stat build for it. And will support with everyone, including hard-to-please types, and will have a level advantage thanks to Veteran. Tactician/Grandmaster is fine anyway, and Ignis & Rally Spectrum hold up in the aftergame if you care, or can be replaced by whatever crazy build you want.
Lissa - 5/10. Staff users are all kinda interchangeable, you want at least 2 but their stats don't matter THAT much. Lissa's your only option early, gets the earliest start on gaining levels, and if she got RNG-screwed you just replace her with Mari or Libra anyway. Also, Chrom tends to be someone I'll sometimes leave not paired-up, and he & Lissa usually have a good support, so if I need an emergency pair-up for him it's nice that his (also unpaired) healer also supports.
Frederick - 7/10. Gets you out of any scrapes in the earlygame, and also makes a solid Pair Up (+4 Str / +4 Def for Sumia? Yes pls). Is the Messiah in Lunatic earlygame. You probably shouldn't be using him directly by C8 or so, but even then, he makes perfectly decent Pair-Up bait if you want to keep using him.
Sully - 6/10. Averagey McAverage the Cavalier. She works.
Virion - 4/10. Virion is authentically useful for the first 10 Chapters + associated Paralogues or so! The battles are small enough that Virion can set up, chip down some dudes, and let others move in to finish them off, or vice versa. By the time you hit end turn, you've either killed everything or built a little wall around your squishy backline and Virion is in range of 0-1 enemies. Then you move forward again and repeat killing off more enemies. Meanwhile, Virion OHKOs all the flyers. ...then you hit the backhalf of the game. Suddenly, Virion's suspect speed growth bites him: he now fears getting doubled & OHKO'd, and the map design makes it much harder to protect an aggro Virion, and he's certainly not going to handle hordes by himself. Oh, and few characters care about a +SKL pair-up. He's not totally useless, there's occasional Longbow hax and he can still perma-hide in a Pair-up and let his wife get to slaughter fliers for free, but meh.
Stahl - 3/10? Meh. Stahl's in an awkward spot. He doesn't have quite the raw defense to be a Kellam / Nowi-esque tank who doesn't care if he's doubled, yet he doesn't have the speed to ensure he never gets doubled. At least going Paladin would help fix his Resistance some. Seems like he'd be among the characters who most benefit if you funnel extra XP his way, at least - an extra 5 levels for +3 DEF / +2 SPD suddenly means he's far harder to kill (unlike dodgy characters whose extra 5 levels might leave them still doubling & killing everything on your turn, and still killable via bad luck on the enemy turn).
Vaike - 4/10. The Vaike is practically your only option for axes early, and the boatload of HP means he's among the best in the game at eating 1-2 powerful attacks. Hero promotion gets him some badly needed Skill & Sol to increase his survivability. Still, the speed problems, which restrict his feasible pair-up options to speedsters, means I can't in good conscience give him too high a score, though he's absolutely usable. Is kinda trashy toward the end & in the postgame anyway.
Miriel - 4/10. A glass cannon with a bit too much glass and not enough cannon for my tastes. Also, the Avatar can cover frying Knights & Wyvern Riders with magic early, and Miriel will be competing against Tharja & Henry come the midgame. Far from a lost cause of course, especially if you get a Celica's Gale early, and worst comes to worst she can spam Physic Staves from the rear lines in the last chapters as a Lissa variant.
Sumia - 8/10. Amazing. Fast, dodgy, a great pair-up, flying mobility, good times. She has some minor issues - she can get STR or DEF screwed if unlucky, her support options are a tad limited, and she fears ninja assassins with bows. But whatever. Also gets bonus points for being by far the best Gangrel slayer with high RES / SPD / dodge / WTA.
Lon'qu - 6/10. Serviceable swordmaster. Makes for great pair-up bait w/ slower & tankier females or Vaike. Resistance problems can lead to some heart-stopping enemy turns (3 enemy mages who 2HKO Lon'qu but only have a listed 40% chance of hitting - does fate hate you?). Notably worse on Lunatic where he should just be a speed boost for some other character.
Donnel - 3/10? Way too much effort babying him early. To add insult to injury, he's not even particularly good for the deeper aftergame for all the work he takes. If I want to grind up someone with a bad start, I'll wait for the kids.
Ricken - 2/10? Ew. Okay, more durable than Miriel, but loses the ability to kill shit, and now fears getting doubled. Also, if I want a Dark Knight type who hits both defenses, you can breed some pretty scary kids for this purpose who will smoke Ricken.
Maribelle - 3/10. I have consistently gotten a worse Maribelle than Lissa in 3 games, more so than the stat topic would indicate - maybe Mari's meh base's fault. Risks both deadly OHKOs & doubles with her HP/DEF/SPD, and her magic is bad enough that Physic / Rescue's range can be a bit shorter than I'd like in the midgame. Still, staff users can only be so bad. (Also if you must have combat Maribelle, there's Falcon Knight / Dark Flier for the comedy option, I suppose. Especially if you can grab a Shockstick.)
Panne - 6/10. Taguel is not particularly inspiring, starts okay but seems to fade fairly quickly, and no WTA/WTD is actually worse for someone based around dodging. She does make a very good Wyvern/Griffon Rider if you're willing to spend that early Second Seal on her, though, she ends up Cherche with more speed (and THREE WEAKNESSES if on a Wyvern). Fears mages no matter what path you take, though.
Gaius - 6/10. Lon'qu with a rockier start & thief utility. Sure.
Cordelia - 8/10. See Sumia, but occasionally won't double (weird!), but has better STR & MAG and thus can go Dark Flier safely not needing the Lancefaire. Also summons Severa (sigh) which from a strictly mechanical perspective is pretty good. Is one of the rare adults who is deep aftergame qualified thanks to being able to dip into Sorc for the Vengeance-powered Falcon Knight w/ Tomebreaker & Galeforce.
Gregor - 5/10. Gregor is run-of-the-miller guy. Average stats all around, but perfectly serviceable. Erring to 5 rather than 6 because if he has a potentially weak stat it's speed (bad choice), and there tends to be a lot of strong competition in the sword-users category in your average runthrough.
Nowi - 8/10. Yes, Nowi's 30/5 stats are comparable to Tiki's L20 stats. Yes, she risks being doubled, especially without a pair-up. Yes, it probably violates child abuse laws to send her onto a battlefield. Doesn't matter. She's a champion tank in a game that rewards one. FEA throws too many enemies at you at times, especially in the later half, to try and math out potential survival rates. Nowi + a halfway decent pair-up (either DEF, SPD, or both) can cheerfully go trot into an enemy horde, draw their fire, and come out alive. And unlike, say, Kellam/Stahl/Gregor, her weapon naturally has 1-2 range, and her Resistance is good, too. Finally, even if you don't want to use her seriously, Manakete is a great pair-up, so you can slot-fill with her easily to buff a character while waiting for new recruits.
Libra - 5/10. Uh, sure, if you got Lissa & Maribelle killed already or something he's ready to go. Usually think that a Lissa should be barely behind him (L15) by recruit and will be better long-term, though. And of course all staff users bow to Anna. His front-lines ability fades later in the game - especially on Lunatic, where he's getting doubled & murdered by everyone a mere 5 chapters later.
Tharja - 9/10. Tharja has terrible skill, meh resistance, and can be pretty tricky to recruit (especially on Lunatic). And it doesn't matter because WTF Nosferatu. What makes the Dark Mages even more amazing is how they hack the AI: the AI, in the absence of a OHKO, wants to inflict the maximum damage possible, but is blind to how Nosferatu works. So while they'll ignore, say, Manaketes given the opportunity, they'll cheerfully charge the Dark Mages rather than get real damage on the bruisers.
Anna - 7/10. The ultimate utility character. Heals, dodges, thiefs, hits both defenses via Levin Sword… great stuff.
Olivia - 3/10. Blargh, Dancer in a game where it's more about drawing the enemy out on their turn than striking with your own offense, post C11 certainly. And if you do use her in an aggro strategy, and somehow something nearby lives, you better hope she dodges despite her massive underlevelness & meh Dancer XP, at least on Classic. Sure, if you stall for dance dance revolution grinding / EXPonential growth her to Second Seal range, she makes a perfectly valid Peg Knight or Myrmidon, but she still loses points for that initial underlevelness.
Cherche - 6/10. Hits like a truck, tanks physicals, and eventually gets lance or swordbreaker hax evade for the late game. Nevertheless, her poor speed makes her choosy in supports, and she fears a lot of enemies (mages / archers / dragonslayers), more so than the Pegasus Knights. Still fine of course, just have to be careful with her.
Henry - 8/10. Nya-ha-ha-sferatu hax rides again. Trades Tharja's skill problem for a speed problem, and a rocky start (whee getting doubled by some enemies on your join map). But high skill has it uses; he's better than Tharja at killing stuff dead with Waste, for example!
Say'ri - 5/10. RNG-proof Lon'qu you don't need to grind up (and notably better than Lon'qu on Lunatic). Loses a point for her extremely needy supports, though - the Avatar or Tiki, both in-demand? Ack. Better than the postgame crew on that note, at least.
Tiki - 8/10. See Nowi, except better stats, fewer missions, and a more restrictive set of potential supports. Awesome, in other words.
Basilio - 5/10. Probably great if you're doing a no-grind run, especially a no-grind Classic Ironman run or the like. Holds up surprisingly well on Lunatic, too, and can use a Killer Bow from the start for those C24 & C25 flyers. Still, a bit underlevel (especially if you've grinded even a little) & restricted supports = meh.
Flavia - 5/10. See Basilio.
Lucina - 8/10. Is Chrom with better stats but a level disadvantage, at worst. +1 point for various haxy options inherited from mom & aftergame suitability, as Lucina is very easy to build into your most potent offensive tool to kill things dead with thanks to Rightful King + Aether + any other proc.
Owain - 5/10. Owain's fine. You can make use of his decent Magic & Resistance as a Trickster or Dark Knight or something, or you can just have Astra & Swordfaire in any beatdown class like Paladin and mock mages with hungering sword hands. EDIT: Sure I'll dock him a point for parent issues.
Inigo - 4/10. Inigo's weird. He's probably a slightly weaker Severa if you're using Dancer Olivia on Casual (and non-existent w/ Dancer Olivia on Classic). He obviously gets way better if you can give him Galeforce which you are likely getting anyway w/ battle Olivia, although he won't complain about Astra or Swordfaire, but waiting that long leaves perilously little normal game left (since unlike Cynthia/Severa, Olivia is both underleveled AND had to Second Seal on over to get to Dark Flier). Obviously seems like he'd be pretty good in the aftergame. EDIT: I still don't know what to make of Inigo. IF you grind Olivia up a ton for Galeforce and grab him with overleveled parents, he does rock the aftergame, but he's so insanely unlikely to get for the main game, except for maybe late Lunatic w/ grinding. Call it a 4? Clearly worse than Severa...
Brady - 2/10. Underleveled Cleric, woo, when the main thing you care about Clerics is their staff ranking & their magic, and the thing saving them is their high level off of the XP bonus. Worthless for the normal game, but I suppose if you grind 'em up there's usual broken kid possibilities. EDIT: Even after grinding him up some, he's still bad. Yeesh, WTF, Brady. Down to a 2 you go.
Kjelle - 7/10. Tank in a game that rewards tanking. Good pair-up as a Great Knight for a lot of characters who want some extra Str/Def and move, like Lucina or SM Owain.
Cynthia - 8/10. I might have gotten lucky, but Cynthia has always been awesome for me, sometimes even more so than the Sorcs, which is high praise. Chrom!Cynthia has Aether and can just murder everything physically, is easy to catch-up, and probably inherits Lancefaire. Henry!Cynthia on Lunatic inherited Tomebreaker, which was huge, and could be a dangerous magey Dark Flier who hits both defenses and doesn't fear Wind Mages.
Severa - 8/10. Crazy stats, probably inherits Galeforce, has Armsthrift to be a good legendary weapon wielder. Probably inherited something useful from dad, too. Pint-sized murder machine with an inferiority complex.
Gerome - 6/10. Okay, if Gerome has access to Hero (easy), he can eventually set up the triple Breaker defense, which is kinda cool. Still, slightly uninspiring growths & speed and mom's fear of archers / mages / weakness-hitters can create some exciting moments when using Gerome.
Morgan - 8/10. At absolute worst, can be a Rally Spectrum bot. Otherwise, the Avatar with fewer missions and slightly more restricted support opportunities and the other gender's skill options.
Yarne - 6/10. Seems like being a kid might give him the raw stats to make Taguel work. Or he can just Second Seal to something else appropriate before returning.
Laurent - 5/10. Second seal him to Sorcerer immediately, get Sorc, hurray. Except he'll get some useful inheritance skill from dad, unlike Miriel (and maybe free Tomefaire from mom). Even then, kind of uninspiring, which is weird for a Sorc, and he's probably terrible if he goes Dark Knight or Sage.
Noire - 3/10. Better than Virion in every way except Strength both times I've recruited her. Unfortunately, the Sniper's time has already passed, so she's still worse. There's rejuggling her to something totally different a la Brady, but eh.
Nah - 8/10. See Tiki, pretty much, except a wider set of skill choices thanks to dad.
Gangrel - ?/10. I have failed to recruit Gangrel twice. Oh well. EDIT: Make that three times.
Walhart - 5/10? His stats are good, so I've used a Conquest-only Walhart just to fill a slot on Rogues & Redeemers 3, which works, I guess. He magically forgets the Aegis/Pavise/Luna/Rightful King combo he had before, so you have to grind 'em back up if you care about using him for Apotheosis, which I wouldn't due to meh supports.
Emmeryn - 5/10. Healer with good postgame stats & A-staff ranking basically ready to go. (Why they decided Miss Peace could zap dudes with Thoron I'm not sure, but not thinking too hard about this one.)
Yen'fay - 5/10. Analogies: Say'ri is to Lon'qu as Yen'fay is to Say'ri. Yen'fay has better stats and is even more RNG-proof than Say'ri, yet somehow has even fewer support options as he's Avatar-only.
Aversa - 8/10. Shadowgift, hell yeah. The best of the postgame lot by a mile. Why yes I'll have a Dark Flier with Vengeance, Tomebreaker, Shadowgift, & Galeforce running around Nosferatu / Waste / Brave Lancing dudes as appropriate.
Priam - Byblos/10. His recruit map is the last stage of the vanilla postgame, so N/A there. I guess he's mostly ready to go for Apotheosis if you need a slot filled, but I mildly prefer DLC Ike for actually having Aether rather than the Sol/Luna combo.
SpotPass characters - Not my cup of tea/10. I'm sure it's cool for some people they can make a team entirely of mage girls they met off the Internet, but eh. The retrogame-specific characters are sort of interesting, but since they're all splayed out in level, you can't really do a Path of Radiance characters runthrough of Awakening or anything.
DLC characters - No supports? Bleh. I did use a few for some of the late aftergame missions with very high deploy counts (Rogues & Redeemers 3, Apotheosis). DLC Catria is kinda ridiculous - Dark Flier w/ Lancefaire, Tomefaire, Galeforce, Astra, great stats, and perfect class choice, so she can easily grab, say, Rally Spectrum as well. 7/10. DLC Ike has Aether & random other useful stuff. 6/10, there's not much left to use him on but that's solid.
tl;dr: Sorcerers, Dragons, Peg Knights, & Lucina goooood. Ricken bad.
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Ciato and I talked these over as I wrote this because FE nerding is fun and five playthroughs helps for analysis more than 2-3. We rate on the assumption that the player's goal is to beat the game, not to do oodles of optional content. They player should also be striving to beat the game with a minimal amount of grinding. Lots of grinding makes anyone good, and hence makes it difficult to discern differences between characters.
Rankings are based on hard classic.
Chrom: 7/10. Chrom sorta has that Ike9 feel. His stats are good without being great, and there's little about him weapon- or class-wise which is terribly exciting. Prf weapons are neat, and at least he eventually gets 1-2 range (although lacks Ike9's outstanding supports, to complete that comparison). Lategame, if he wants to give up rapier for extra move, paladin is a nice choice (same weapons, similar stats). Sword only until promotion + a weapon rank increase is a bummer but oh well.
Avatar: 9/10. Robin is typically considered the best PC in the game. While I find him/her a bit overrated at times (Veteran gives a few extra levels, not ten or anything silly like that). Speed can be a bit of a problem, but a +speed build helps that out a lot. Still, Robin is really good. Fast-growing mage with decent overall stats, with amazing variety. Grandmaster itself is great, with solid overall stats and eventually Rally Spectrum (Robin can be good even if s/he gets RNG-screwed!). Dark Mage and Nosferatu is obviously very effective as well. And Robin (along with Morgan) is probably the most practical Dark Flyer in the game; lets her use her magic off great speed and mobility. Also can support EVERYONE which is nice, particularly because the game has three "excellent but very limited supports" PCs later.
Lissa: 3/10. Speeding up cleric exp gain was a nice thought, but unfortunately IS decided to kind of crap on Lissa anyway, by creating Libra and Anna, two PCs who join not that far into the game with better stats/weapon ranks than Lissa can ever hope to have.
Frederick: 8.5/10. Frederick is interesting. His trajectory for unit worth, in a vacuum, is comparable to that of Marcus7... which is to say he ages far worse than Seth or Titania. Yet he feels much better than Marcus7 anyway. This is partly because FE13 has a pretty difficult start, so Frederick gets to really shine there. But it's also because no other FE13 PC especially shines early, the way Oswin or Guy (especially HHM) do. He never gets completely worthless; he'll always kill generals well (hammer) and gives solid pair up bonuses. Overall he's an excellent unit despite being so bleh late. (And utterly indispensable on Lunatic, of course.)
Sully: 6.5/10. Good all-around stats and a horse. There... isn't much else to say about her! She's unexciting, but very solid. She's like Kent or Forde, but more solid statistically... no real stat weaknesses that matter. She's generally a bit more of an earlygame PC, as GK/Paladin both lack particularly good skills and generally other PCs catch up on move somewhat.
Virion: 3/10. Virion sucks. Those bases are awful, and he's in a bad class. To give him a little credit, they did do a pretty good job of not letting him get easily outclassed at his niche (no random prepromo with a bow rank until very late), and bad FE13 PCs aren't as bad as many other bad FE PCs because of better overall balance.
Stahl: 5/10. As Miriel noted, he is the averagest. Unlike Sully his stats are lopsided. Tanky horseman is kinda nice, though the speed really isn't. Mostly an earlygame PC. FE13 favours offence over defence later in the game, and you get better defensive PCs anyway (ones who don't run screaming from valkyries and dark fliers). Still, he's a workable all-rounder.
Vaike: 3.5/10. Vaike is somewhat a return to pre-FE9 warriors. Great strength, great HP but not actually durable, blah speed. In fact his speed is just as blah as Stahl's until promotion (and only better then if he goes hero), and he has less move/durability (str gap isn't big enough to care). So he kinda fails to excel as either an offensive or defensive unit.
Miriel: 6/10. As was alluded to with Robin, mages are pretty good in this game again. Their move was fixed, the def/res gap is decent. As such Miriel, with her solid speed and magic, makes a good class cannon, but that def is certainly a problem. Has access to dark mage, which compromises her speed somewhat but really fixes her durability with Nosferatu. Late, there's also the option of valkyrie to gain move and speed. She's not as good as Robin, Morgan, or Tharja, but there's no shame in that.
Sumia: 7.5/10. Fast as hell. Flight is good (despite having more downsides in this FE than most). Her strength isn't great, but thanks to doubling everything she has good offence anyway. Generally works as a specialist for killing fast enemies (who are often dangerous and hard to kill)... valkyries, swordmasters, Gangrel, etc. The pairup system helps her a fair deal... she can ferry low-move people, she can switch to avoid archers, and she gives very valuable stats. Weak support list does hurt a bit though.
What's-his-name: 4/10. Also benefits a lot from pair up, since it can fix his move! But it'd be nice not to have that problem from the start. And he's very slow. Overall definitely feels worse than Stahl, who isn't that much less durable and has a far better package otherwise. Still works as a decent defensive PC for a while, though ultimately will be outclassed by various others.
Lon'qu: 5/10. He's... a lot like Sumia with no pegasus (a big part of what makes Sumia good)? And much less res and no lances, which weirdly matter for some of the units they both want to troubleshoot. He has a lot more trouble finding a niche, as such.
Donnel: 2.5/10. I'll give Donnel one thing; at least he actually has a payoff. This is more than many units of his type can claim. That said he's still pretty bad. Panne's a better option if you want to feel like you're cheating with an early second seal. The most efficient way to use him is probably just to make him a pure support for some woman in your army who likes 'em young, and pop out a more usable kid with his awesome ability.
Ricken: 3/10. Bad. What's up with that speed? He's not nearly defensive enough to make up for it... heck, Tharja is similar while having dark magic and real speed! Never mind Henry, if you really want a slow tank mage.
Maribelle: 3.5/10. Having a pony makes her better than Lissa. Unfortunately Libra/Anna still kick her ass. So a bit better than Lissa, but not much.
Panne: 7/10. Taguel's a bad class, but Panne is good anyway. You can use her as a weird myrmidon variant who eventually falls behind a little due to weaker weapon options late, or you can second seal her into wyvern knight where she has dumb stats and incredible mobility. I'm not sure how much I want to reward her for this since there are other PCs who want an early second seal, but it's hard to argue with the reward for little effort.
Gaius: 5/10. Lon'qu with a worse start but with some cool thiefy things. Balances out to... similar.
Cordelia: 7.5/10. Alternate Sumia. She's slower, and despite being distinctively fast herself this definitely matters! Doesn't troubleshoot certain classes as well. But dang, her stats otherwise. Nice strength, okay durability. She avoids 2HKOs much more than Sumia and does kill some things Sumia doesn't.
Gregor: 4.5/10. Like Vaike, he... doesn't really excel at much. I always find myself comparing him to Lon'qu and preferring the latter, despite the latter being unspecial. Gregor is still better than Vaike - he's not as slow, and gives better pair up bonuses, for instance. The merc tree feels very uninspiring as well.
Nowi: 5/10. She has a rough start, but if she gets rolling, she becomes a very solid defensive unit; basically impenetrable. Unfortunately Nowi always has pretty crappy offence. And there's a better manakete who is good from the start. She's not bad, certainly, but I can't bring myself to be super-impressed by her. Weird case.
Libra: 7/10. Healer! With good offence for a while, and good durability for a fair bit longer! By the end he's pretty crappy stat-wise, but hey, even at the end he's not really any worse than Lissa/Maribelle are for the whole game. Isn't quite the utility god Anna is, but still an excellent unit.
Tharja: 8.5/10. Tharja is outstanding. Probably the best PC on this list who doesn't rely on weird intangibles like Robin or Frederick, she's just a straight-up great combat unit who joins at average party levels and kicks ass forever. Decent durability, good speed (especially for her slug-like class), good magic, and Nosferatu spam just lays waste to things while keeping her safe. She has two weak stats but they are minor stats with so many ways to fix... Anathema, adjacenet units are +20 hit right there, Goddess Icons are low-demand stat boosters, etc. Dark magic rocks, she has good stats and has access to it with no shenanigans.
Anna: 8/10. She has some disadvantages on Libra... mostly the lower staff rank and a bit lower concrete durability. But she has many advantages on him: mobility, speed (Libra gets doubled later), evasion (especially once she picks up Lucky Seven). And midgame she even beats down problem enemies with the Levin Sword. So she's significantly better than Libra. Who is already good.
Olivia: 2.5/10. Ciato and I agree about most things when it comes to FE unit worth, but we disagree on dancers. I think they're outstanding units, she thinks they're pretty bad (the GBA ones, at least). But we both agree Olivia is hugely problematic. She's way too fragile; lots of things one-round her. Unlike most frail units you can't pair her up or you're using TWO units to give one unit an extra turn, which spits on dancer action economy. And by the time she joins you have more than enough staff users so there's little reason to double their actions specifically, for instance. And in a game with ninja reinforcements, that durability is just extra problematic. She has combat but it's not worth discussing.
Cherche: 6/10. Stop. Hammertime. The nice thing about Cherche is she joins around the time you want to start easing off Frederick, so suddenly there's an axe niche which needs to be filled. She also has the good grace to start on a map filled with hammer-bait so she can get started easily. Otherwise, she's Vaike on a wyvern with way more defence and... slightly more speed and... no real stat disadvantages worth talking about. She's still not amazing since "more speed than Vaike" is still pretty slow; the pegasus knights are definitely better. But she's pretty good.
Henry: 4.5/10. After lots of failed attempts (Ilyana, Sanaki, Ricken) at slow mages, they finally made one that actually works. He'd be ridiculous outside speed: magic, defence, skill(!!), HP, you name it. Unfortunately the speed is... definitely bad. Getting doubled does kinda ruin Nosferatu-tanking pretty badly, his def is good but not good enough to deal with that. Henry's problems are pronounced enough, and he himself late enough, that it's hard to enough the competition from second seals for his awesome nosferatu role. Though you can argue you can never have enough.
Say'ri: 6.5/10. Say'ri is hilariously better than Lon'qu in almost every way (not speed or skill! Yeah she's still fast enough for virtually all purposes, unlike Cordelia). She's defensively solid for such a fast/dodgy unit, has good strength and is in a good class which blossoms well late (Astra, Swordfaire, Amatsu). So basically by using her you skip all the bad parts of Lon'qu and get right to the ass-kicking. Her limited supports are a flaw but are mitigated by the fact that she supports Tiki, who wants her badly.
Tiki: 8/10. Tiki's decent until Level 30. Tank, can expect to be about where Nowi was without any raising. But could be better, certainly. Then she "promotes" and becomes some sort of monster because her stats go nuts. Won't die ever, suddenly gets pretty good offence. Tank the world and seriously weak everything you don't kill, mop up, win.
Basilio: 5/10. Oh hey, there's that bow rank prepromo! With that monstrous strength he can just one-shot pegs and double wyverns, so he's great against flyers. He also crushes generals of course. Not too great otherwise, but at least he's modestly durable. Joining late with no supports is a bummer, though.
Flavia: 5/10. Basilio who lacks his niches (beyond killing generals, though she's not quite as good at it), but with better stats. I'm not sure if her better overall makes up for what Basilio does to certain problematic enemy types. I think sliiightly worse but it's close.
Many kids are worse versions of their mothers, with a few exceptions. They're underlevelled, and often hard to recruit due to being in maps which aren't easily defeated until mid-Valm at the earliest. Being that underlevelled that late means either you suck until you promote, or you promote immediately and waste the child niche of theoretically having good stats for their level.
Lucina: 7.5/10. She has a bit of slow start though obviously the least slow of the kids by definition. Once she gets rolling though, woof. Sumia (speed!) or Robin (Veteran!) are both amazing mothers, and they're two of the only three she's likely to have (Sully, the third, isn't bad either). She quickly grows into Chrom plus a bunch of speed and with a free invincible healing wyvern-slaying Silver Sword. She beats her father for enough of the game that I do think she's a bit better overall.
Owain: 2/10.
Inigo: 2/10.
Brady: 1/10.
These characters have several problems. First of all, they are the children of healers/dancers, neither of whom pair up well; they make awful pair up partners in both directions (they can't support attack, AND they barely need stats from a pairup partner themselves). They also have bad stats and pass said bad stats onto their children, particularly str for Owain/Inigo. Brady meanwhile, is only notable as crappy healer (seriously, D rank?!?), behind Anna, Libra, AND the Maribelle you've presumably used.
Kjelle: 5/10. One of the easier kids to recruit for a number of reasons. Knight isn't a good class, but once she graduates to a better class (Great Knight most easily) she'll likely have very solid stats.
Cynthia: 6/10. Has the usual kid problems but she's very fast and very mobile which helps. Speed + Aether (if she gets it) works pretty well, and can fill in as a decent Falcon Knight. She's a bit problematic if her father isn't Chrom (or Robin) but eh, she can manage.
Severa: 4/10. I'm not terribly sold on her stats considering her problems as a child character. She's a good rallier with certain parents, such as Kellam or Vaike. Rally Speed+Def or Speed+Str? Not that much worse than Spectrum, and you'll have it earlier.
Gerome: 3.5/10 Pretty hard to get even for a kid character, worse version of Cherche not really exciting.
Morgan: 7/10. Easlly the best of the optional kid characters. Robin is probably the most in-demand parent, and Morgan has him/her for sure. Especially devastating if passed good magic/speed, since his/her build leans towards being a powerhouse mage/sorcerer/dark flyer/etc.
Yarne: 5.5/10. Good stats, but taguel sucks. Sounds a lot like Panne. Again you should probably switch him to another class, but E ranks hurt even more later in the game. Still reasonably solid by kid PC standards.
Laurent: 4.5/10. Another mage. If raised he is certainly better than Ricken. Is Miriel so good that you need an alternate version of her? Probably not, but he's an okay option.
Noire: 2.5/10. Archers are bad, and Tharja isn't going to be passing much strength down to her. Better than the trio of bad male kids because at least Tharja is a good PC who pairs up easily. But worse than Virion because man she doesn't even have Virion's niche.
Nah: 3.5/10. Has an unusually difficult joining map, which means she's probably not joining any earlier than Tiki, who is obviously superior. Plus you're already using Nowi and she's probably near the point of super-promotion. edit: that said she pans out pretty well it seems.
Gangrel
Walhart
Emmeryn
Yen'fay
Aversa
Priam
Pass on all of these.
Also I second the notion that this game is decently balanced overall. We scored the PCs from 1 to 9 to emphasise the differences but if we were using the same scale as most games, it would be a bit tighter most likely.
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Chrom: Ike9 really the point of comparison here, yes. 7/10, he's not particularly amazing but he doesn't offend in any area (except range I *guess*).
Avatar: Has all the options, all of them. 9/10
Lissa: Hello token sucky staffbot. 3/10
Frederick: Smacks the earlygame around. Falls off like a rock later, which is a shame, but that early game performance is still worth something like 7.5/10 because this isn't 2004.
Sully: Unexciting yet acceptable. 6/10.
Virion: ruffles why are you the only one with a bow rank for a long time and why do you suck so bad. 2/10.
Stahl: He is in the 50th percentile of everything. okay not really but boring yet semi-okay. 5/10
Vaike: Does not fill me with the carings. 3/10.
Miriel: Gets the science done. And by science I mean blowing up dudes. Too bad about being made of moist toilet paper. 6.5/10
Sumia: Evidently they learned from FE11/12 and made pegasus knight weakness hilariously relevent. Still good despite that. 7.5/10
Kellam: yeah this is char rankings, not really gonna go along with the running gag here. That said, armor knights do not fill me with the carings, and Kellam isn't actually that amazing at it anyways. 3/10.
Lon'qu: Uninspiringly okay. 5/10.
Donnel: he may have a payoff but that fails to make me care. 1/10
Ricken: ILYANA IS THAT YOU? 2/10
Maribelle: uh she has a pony. 3.5/10
Panne: Sure, reclassing to Wyvern Rider hype. 6/10
Gaius: Hi thief lonqu. 5/10
Cordelia: Hi sumia alt. 7.5/10
Gregor: Gregor is sadly mediocre. 4/10.
Nowi: Can tank but that's about it. At least she has range, unlike Kellam. 4/10.
Libra: Hi staffbot that actually has a period of not embarrasing himself at everything. 6/10.
Tharja: you know the deal here. 8/10.
Anna: a staffbot and a door opener. What an amazing concept, really. Only took 13 games. 7/10.
Olivia: and this is how you put a dancer into DO NOT WANT territory. 2/10.
Cherche: hi wyvern meido please smash these guys and please don't get one-rounded by ninja HM valkyries while you're at it. 6/10
Henry: Sadly Henry is not that great. 4/10
Say'ri: hi better lonqu alt. 6/10
Tiki: hi better nowi alt hi level 30 hi second seal and suddenly what is this i don't even. 8/10
Basilio: Has his uses. 5/10.
Flavia: Is okay. 5/10.
Lucina: Is kind of nutty. 8/10.
Owain
Inigo
Brady
Kjelle
Cynthia
Severa
Gerome
Morgan
Yarne
Laurent
Noire
Nah
Gangrel
Walhart
Emmeryn
Yen'fay
Aversa
Priam
Abstain on the non-Lucina children, too much of a headache, if I had to care at all I'd assess Cynthia/Morgan/Kjelle at most. DNR the "aftergame" folks for obvious reasons.
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Oh boy, here we go. I'm rating characters based on Hard Casual for what it's worth, with the assumption that some DLC is done (including paid DLC) and grinding is not off limits but is not done to extremes either; however, I will note some instances where conditions vastly change scores from Hard Casual.
Chrom: 7/10. He's good, and one of the better FE lords overall, I think, but he's got a shallow class pool for reclassing shenanigans and he's not so great that he can't get stat-screwed (it's just pretty uncommon).
Robin: 10/10. Seriously. Holy crap she translates badly to the DL but in-game... Veteran is one of (if not THE) most broken skill in the game, access to almost every class allows absolutely ridiculous combinations of skills that most PCs can't assemble, and even without reclassing Tactician/Grandmaster is a pretty excellent class. That said she's "only" a 9 or a 10 without a reclass.
Lissa: 4/10. She's only that high because she's your only healer for the first five maps, and the next one you get isn't really appreciably better. I've never seen her turn out especially well, either, she has some of the worst growths in FE13 (for all that in any other FE game, she'd be a pretty good PC, just not here). Completely obsoleted by Libra and Anna.
Frederick: 5/10. Decently helpful early on, but I'd peg him as definitely weaker than Seth and probably weaker than Marcus as well; he feels like he has a definite expiration date for combat use, although he holds up for a long while still as a pair-up partner. Rating goes up a lot in Lunatic mode where he's absolutely essential to being able to get anywhere at all, even though he still expires there.
Sully: 7/10. Good but not great early cavalier. Tends to be the better of the two on her own merits. Not much else to say about her.
Virion: 2/10, and he only gets those points for being entertaining in his plot scenes. Mechanically he's trash, and grinding doesn't really save him - if you really want an archer, there are better archers via reclassing (hell, Chrom).
Stahl: 6/10. See Sully. I'd switch their ratings in Lunatic as Stahl's peculiar strengths seem to be better than Sully's there and Stahl has better long-term utility as a pair-up partner than Sully by quite a bit. As usual for red/green cavalier pair, though, the two of them are pretty much "use whichever one turns out better."
Vaike: 5/10. Okay. Needs a reclass to Berserker ASAP to really perform, but there are generally better things to do with early Second Seals. He does pay off if you do it in my experience though.
Miriel: 6/10. Has a pretty shaky start, is good when you work past it, and she can (and should) reclass to Dark Mage/Sorcerer. SF's comment about the balance of glass vs. cannon being off is fairly apt.
Sumia: 7/10. Much of what I said about Chrom applies here; her class pool is lousy for reclassing, she's a bit vulnerable to Str screwing. She cares less than Chrom about the former, though, because she has Pegasus Knight. I generally find Cordelia to be more useful on average, but the two are more or less interchangeable. Restricted support options hurt her a bit. Still, pegknight.
Kellam: 3/10. Okay pairup bait I guess, not much good at anything else, Nowi and arguably Stahl perform his main trick just as well.
Lon'qu: 6/10. Less useful than average for an early myrmidon in my opinion, largely because he feels notably less durable than most of them in practice. Certainly usable though, makes a good pair-up partner.
Donnel: With him, I really have to go more in depth, because he is SO dependent on difficulty settings and the amount of grinding you're willing to do. *If* you're willing to grind him out of villager, he's a 10/10, because his stats are basically stupid as soon as he reclasses out at villager 10 and they only keep getting more stupid. If you're not willing to grind him, or you're playing on Lunatic in general, he's 0/10 and not even worth recruiting IMO.
Ricken: 2/10 for bringing you your first Elwind tome. Doesn't have Dark Mage, very clearly worse than Miriel (and Miriel already has a bad start). If he didn't bring Elwind he'd be 0.
Maribelle: 3/10. Lissa with a bit of extra movement and worse stats five maps later.
Panne: 9/10. Good right when she joins as Taguel, gets nuts with a level 10 reclass to Wyvern Rider. I can't recommend her enough, she's a staple in my teams.
Gaius: 5/10. Worse Lon'qu with thief utility who joins right before a much better thief. Only gets this many points because of supports.
Cordelia: 8/10, see Sumia, except she can sometimes get Spd screwed instead of Str. Has less difficulty patching stat holes than Sumia does because she has unrestricted supports. Pegknight.
Gregor: 5/10, mostly for how entertaining he is in cutscenes, as his mechanical properties are again worse than Lon'qu. Keeps Nowi alive in C8, that's an in-game use I guess.
Nowi: 9/10, and this is probably going to be my controversial rating here. I'm of the opinion she needs very minimal actual babying/grinding to get to a functional level - she should be able to pick up a level or two in her join chapter, then armed with a couple Concoctions she can easily tank large portions of Paralogue 4 with an appropriate pair-up (Kellam or Gaius or Gregor or Lon'qu are the best options, IMO) and quickly catch up in levels. She never doubles much of anything without some RNG luck or abusive pair-ups (Gaius might get her there), but she has some of the most ridiculous enemy phase combat you can get in this game without Nosferatu, and this game favors enemy phase even more than usual for various reasons. Dragonstones being 1-2 range really help her.
Libra: 7/10. Pretty much categorically better than Lissa despite being a prepromote. His combat isn't even bad for a while.
Tharja: 10/10. Buyable Nosferatu, all I have to say. Her start is much less shaky than Miriel's. Feed her secret books, no one else wants them.
Anna: 7/10. Better Gaius that also has staff utility although she starts with a bad rank. Not bad! Probably worth an arms scroll to speed up her staff rank.
Olivia: 3/10. I'm not a big dancer fan and don't really understand people who hype them, maybe I just don't get the finer points of dance tactics. I guess if you do really complicated bullshit with rescue staff chains but whatever, not my cup of tea.
Cherche: 6/10. I like her a lot as a character but she is just not as good as either of the pegasus knights. She's probably the best first generation non-reclassed axe user with actual availability though.
Henry: 5/10. Most of those points are for his personality, buyable Nosferatu really cannot save starting Speed that bad, especially when he joins later than Tharja. I mean, doubled by your join chapter? No.
Say'ri: 6/10. Perfectly acceptable substitute for Lon'qu, only drawback compared to him is shallow supports. However, she supports Tiki, and Tiki benefits from her support in SPADES.
Tiki: 10/10. Everything I said about Nowi also applies to her, only she's great right out of the box.
Basilio: shrug/10. Never used him. Decent endgame filler if you lost all your axe users.
Flavia: shrug/10. Never used her, decent endgame filler. Probably the better of her and Basilio.
Children PCs: The usefulness of non-Lucina, non-Morgan children PCs in general is heavily tied to your grinding level and intent to do DLC, particularly the DLC maps that go into harder-than-endgame territory. Children PCs have generally much more diverse skill options (as SF noted, the majority of the first generation cast simply cannot hack it in deep aftergame). Catching most of them up in maingame without a modicum of grinding, however, is difficult at best (a few exceptions do exist).
Lucina: 8/10. Better version of her father in every way, unless you stick her with Maribelle as a mother or something, and even then it's pretty impossible for her to be worse than her father.
Morgan: 9/10. The only reason Morgan is a point lower than Robin is because Morgan doesn't have the length of playtime Robin does to really flex the broken, since Morgan's potential is obviously higher with moderate grind.
Most of the others I'd simply peg as -1 or -2 points from their mothers, really, based on the criteria I gave above. Noire is probably the best archer in the game if you actually want one, for what it's worth. Actually wanting one is dubious though.
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Reiska: I'm not sure if there's going to be any "official" count of this, but if there is, you should know that scores above 10 are counted as a 10, so if you actually want to highlight the difference between Robin and Morgan (and I'd argue you should, but obviously that's your call) you should drop the latter below 10.
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I'll count the votes up if people show actual interest in the topic again; when, I have no clue, but yeah, I can legitimately revive it. People do need to actually make some effort at posting, and just going "blech, I don't like that cast!" is exactly a great way to kill the topic (I do fully acknowledge that doing all of Suikoden was possibly a bad idea though.)
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no, insisting on making people rate boring things is the way to kill the topic >_>
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Rate every single Pokemon by gen plz
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no, insisting on making people rate boring things is the way to kill the topic >_>
'
I acknowledged Suikoden was a bad idea! But there were some people who weren't voting even after complaining about things like "I can't vote on that" and I specifically put something that I knew they were interested in and they still didn't vote (not naming people, but there were people who did that.)
Pokemon...I'd only do that if there really was a large amount of requests for it...for obvious reasons...and then some <_<
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What Ciato said. But you pointed it out yourself already, so I think we're all on the same page. (There are exceptions where reanalyzing a game makes sense, of course - I'm sure that people's impressions of FF5 classes changed a bunch once 4JF started running, for example. But that cast is smaller than all the Suikos.) Anyway, I appreciate the offer Meeple, but I got this one for totaling the stats (if needed). IIRC, you use Hatbot to calculate the rankings; I'm not a fan (even ignoring the fact it's a lot of work!) because that tends to freeze the ratings at the time and lock people out from contributing to old games because it'd be a pain to recalc. (For all that this topic is really about an excuse to talk about the game not to find the One True Ranking anyway.) Just stick everything in a Google Docs spreadsheet and use the magical "Average" function, problem solved (aside from the initial data entry). Easy to add new rankings if need be, too, can't be lost when moving between computers, etc. There are a reasonable number of interesting games to pick from that have actual interest that have not been ranked, which I'd be happy to put up as well. (LFT classes, Mother 3, etc.).
Since it's rag on Meeple hour apparently (in all seriousness, we do appreciate the work you did in maintaining the thread before), Meeple got on people's cases before for how they voted, threw out rankings that weren't serious enough, wanted everyone to use a strict 10 point scale and not use decimals, etc. I hinted at this in the post above, but I am going to explicitly state that is not how I do things. Rankings are subjective personal analyses. This is a safe space for your nerdy thoughts if you want to share them. If you think Cyan is a 10/10 character, you're weird, but that's your opinion and more power to you. So there is absolutely no problem with "I irrationally love Character X and play the game in such a way that X is great, 11/10 character of the year stand back GameFAQs." If you give silly rankings, awesome, just non-numerical ones might get left out of the spreadsheet. :)
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Well, I would strongly suggest you do continue the cap of 0-10 on ratings, if nothing else. Otherwise it would be simple for someone to come along and say "Jogurt is obviously the greatest character of all time, 99/10" and suddenly he ends up with a high score. (Of course people are free to post 11/10 ratings to show strong feelings, just for averaging purposes they should defiitely be capped IMO.)
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Since it's rag on Meeple hour apparently (in all seriousness, we do appreciate the work you did in maintaining the thread before), Meeple got on people's cases before for how they voted, threw out rankings that weren't serious enough, wanted everyone to use a strict 10 point scale and not use decimals, etc. I hinted at this in the post above, but I am going to explicitly state that is not how I do things. Rankings are subjective personal analyses. This is a safe space for your nerdy thoughts if you want to share them. If you think Cyan is a 10/10 character, you're weird, but that's your opinion and more power to you. So there is absolutely no problem with "I irrationally love Character X and play the game in such a way that X is great, 11/10 character of the year stand back GameFAQs." If you give silly rankings, awesome, just non-numerical ones might get left out of the spreadsheet. :)
The joke thing was because there were a number of people in a previous iteration of the topic that were doing crap like this, in addition to people like OK trying to be cute but weren't. Also, I never said "don't use decimals", I said "don't be obnoxious about them."
There are people who rate things drastically and are serious about it; trust me, we've seen this a lot in the previous topic, and I am going to count them. Yet, when we have a gameplay discussion, and people go "I deduct 2 points because this character has a bad personality!" in a topic all about gameplay...you can see why I took that stance. I understand you don't care as much, but everyone should at least be something similar to the same page.
"I played the game this way and they were great!" is legitimate subjective way to look at the character...I won't deny that. Play-style is what allows these things. Yet, outright saying "I know this character is great, but I hate their personality, so I deduct points from them as a result!" is...yeah. Not to mention someone in this topic outright deducted points from a character just because people were "overrating them" (this led to someone else actually adding the exact same number of points to the character purposely to offset it <_<); this is no longer gameplay discussion, it's just trolling and sniping at others. That's why ground rules are sometimes needed. If you want to do things your way, by all means go ahead.
Also, back then, for the anti-decimal thing (at least beyond the 10ths place) was because of two things that have since changed. One is unfamiliarity with Spread Sheets (I've since gotten at least a little familiar with them that I could pull it off), as well as Hal did create the "!avg" function which gets the Average nonsense done for me as is. Back when I use to do this, that wasn't available at first (Hal created it mid-way), so I had to count them manually (if there was an easier way, no one told me it!), and having a "6.125" in the mix can really fudge with counting.
Honestly, I was thinking of continuing this topic as is, just ending Suikoden where it stands (as I said, BAD IDEA on my end), and if people really wanted to recast something, they'd say it. People can still vote on older games (as Random did with Wild ARMs), even if it ends up not being counted, people like to express their thoughts.
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Well Elfboy and I had long discussions which has most of my thoughts... so...
Fire Emblem: Awakening
Chrom 7 he's ike(9), for god's sake he even has AETHER
Avatar 9 speed is a bit of a problem but otherwise top notch
Lissa 2.5 oh for fuck's sake she gets credit for being the only healer early?
Frederick 8.5 Jeigan OIFEY OF FE13 LOL
Sully 7 hey i'm kent with better stats
Virion 2.5 hey i'm wil without better stats
Stahl 5.5 hey i'm sain with high def?
Vaike 3 continuing the proud tradition of slow and bad FE axe dudes
Miriel 6.5 ~ all the science you don't understand
it's just her job seven days a week~
Sumia 7.5 they do a decent job of trying to emphasize the weakness of the pegs but that speed is so huge for killing valkyries and other fast enemies
Kellam 4 a solid unit mired in bad move and low offense
Lon'qu 5 kinda like sumia without flying and a worse weapon type for dealing with the fast enemies
Donnel 2 make the babby wittle boy
Ricken 2.5 a better ewan. ricken shouldn't be a better anyone.
Maribelle 2.5 horse vs. early game niche for her vs. lissa
Panne 7 an oddball character, second seal candidate and generally a better lon'qu if you get her going
Gaius 5 he and lon'qu are two sides of the same coin
Cordelia 7.5 in general i value sumia's speed more sometimes and cord's str/def more sometimes, balances out
Gregor 4 tankier than vaike but also a bit too slow
Nowi 4.5 time to go into a frothy moral panic, no, not a bathing suit, 0/10
Libra 7 mari and lissa i'm real happy for you and I'm gonna let you finish but libra is better than ya'll in every way. including at a beauty contest
Tharja 9 nos tank that is fast? yes plz
Anna 8 wait wait wait you just gave me a character to replace lissa and mari that is even better than libra. game... balance?
Olivia 2 dancers are low move units which rely on people being close to them in the best of times, in the worst of times you have a getting OHKOed machine like Olivia
Cherche 6 tankier than thou
Henry 4 a good attempt at the slow mage build but a tad too slow
Say'ri 7 doubles pretty much everything and can take care of herself durability wise
Tiki 8 a walking tank with decent offense
Basilio 5 is a specialist at the murder of low def fliers and generals
Flavia 5 is a more solid PC than Basilio statistically but low def flyer killing is definitely a niche to have late game
I am mean to children. *rides off on a broom*
Lucina 7.5
Owain 1
Inigo 1
Brady 0.5
Kjelle 5
Cynthia 5.5
Severa 3
Gerome 3
Morgan 6
Yarne 5
Laurent 3.5
Noire 2
Nah 2
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That reminds me, I never played catchup ratings for G3/MK1/SH1/SH2 :v.
Mana Khemia:
Vayne Aurelius: Good crowd control and the stats don't offend. Also has SLPHR PLS which is handy. 7/10.
Jessica Philomele: Timed card healing is pretty good. Doesn't inspire much on either the durability or the damage front but she doesn't really have to much. 6/10.
Nicole Mimi Tithel: At least she's fast and has non-SP offense. Non-SP offense is kind of a pain though. 6/10.
Flay Gunnar: Hello boss damage. 6/10.
Pamela Ibis: Pretty much all her worth is lategame. I guess giving her Common Skills makes her better for warm body purposes but even then she doesn't inspire. 3.5/10
Roxis Rosenkrantz: Also has a rough start, but doesn't go on for as long as Pamela's and he's still better off the bat due to actually having a skillset that doesn't kill him, and is much better once he gets going. 7/10.
Anna Lemouri: GT ID attached to damage affords her a randombusting niche, and she does have a weird speed/switching game, but the raw offense doesn't inspire. 5/10.
Muppy Oktavia Vondercheck VII: Start with some fucking AP next time you damn tadpole. D-Support is excellent but it's still three chapters down the line from when he joins and he pretty much doesn't have anything else going for him. 3/10.
Shadow Hearts:
Yuri Volte Hyuga: Yuri kind of needed to have MT from the word go to justify a 10 to me, but good lord that is some grade-A manhandling of puny game. 9.5/10.
Alice Elliot: Battery healing forever, SH1 really is the Yuri/Alice comedy tour. 6/10.
Zhuzhen Liu: The worst of the warm bodies, hello terrible stats and terrible skillset. 3/10.
Margarete Gertrude Zelle: The most balanced of the warm bodies, but slapfights for Zhuzhen for worst skillset. 4/10.
Keith Valentine: The most durable of the warm bodies, has theorhetical quirks but so hard to care. 4/10.
Halley Brancket: The fastest of the warm bodies, but only marginally so compared to Margarete. Still, he's essentially the last one to have forced segments which means he'll be ahead of the level curve and his skillset is basically the best of the four in practice. 4.5/10
Shadow Hearts Covenant:
Karin Koenig: Solid all-rounder, Geuschbenst is good for combos. 6/10.
Nicholai Conrad: No.
Yuri Hyuga: Less overly powerful compared to the first game, but incredibly more versatile. Energy Charge is kind of dumb and he at least can pick up the most useful Arc buffs around the same time as they become available to others (whether or not getting them ASAP is a good idea, however isn't something I'll comment on). Admittedly if I weren't sticking to the closest half-point he'd rate lower than Yuri1 anyways, but I am so 9.5/10 it is.
Gepetto: oh wow it's zhuzhen with an even worse skillset. 3/10.
Blanca: Karin variant, trading some physical power and durability (I believe) for some more magic and speed. However this doesn't let him meaningfully outperform Karin against randoms and the unique skillset blows for the longest time (ewwwww Soul Comet) making him an inferior choice against bosses. 4/10.
Joachim Valentine: Joachrythyms so aren't worth hyping, gtfo gold bat. Beyond that he brings poor randombusting stats but acquits himself well enough against bosses. 4.5/10
Lucia: Strike booster effect is a winmore in practice (as in if you're good enough at the ring to care about it in the first place, the game's pretty much already had a fork stuck in it) and none of her other aromatherapy options are worth caring enough about to justify a slot on the team, particularly since she has too many junk options as is. At least she's a decent mage but she doesn't bring much to the table boss-wise. 4/10.
Anastasia Romanov: Best pure mage doesn't say much, but at least snaps and getting the most worthwhile-in-practice skillset of the pure mages raises her to an average score. 5/10.
Kurando Inugami: Bad for a dungeon and then becomes Yuri-lite. 8/10.
Ouka: Non.
Raiden: Nein.
Hien: Nyet.
Grandia 3:
Yuki: Whirlwind, but otherwise he's pretty average. 5.5/10
Miranda: Jeigan, leaves as she starts to suck. 5/10.
Alfina: The more durable of the two mages and the better one in practice, being able to restore SP is a plus. 7/10.
Alonso: Bad for most of his existence. Picks up once he gets better equipment but by then he's about ready to leave. 3/10.
Ulf: Line target cancel is something at least, though that's pretty much all he has over Yuki in the specials department. 4/10.
Dahna: The more damaging of the two mages, but pretty frail and her specials are kind of junk. 6/10.
Hect: I guess she's around for enough time. 7/10.
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WARNING!! WARNING!!
Gate pays no attention to how they are "supposed" to end up on average, only to how they wound up for me(or extrapolating how they would have been had I done less optional content) and how much I value that kind of party role/general build. I do not even know what people's growths ARE. So if my opinions vary wildly, well, there you go.
Chrom - 8/10. Very good, great skills, great class, solid amount of support options with largely good characters. Strong enough that forged javelins work just fine after promotion and getting from E to D is not hard.
Avatar - 10/10. Options/10.
Lissa - 4/10. Not great, but I do love me some storebought Rescue Staff spamming, so she doesn't actually fall far behind on levels. Hard to pair off if you're not expressly doing randoms/DLC/etc for it, though, so minus points there.
Frederick - 8/10. He's more of a 7 to me, but when I get around to seriously trying Lunatic, I know I will have to crutch on him so hard it's not even funny. Also, being a Jeigan is less terrible here as he has pair-up to keep him viable late giving his pair up bonuses and Support Defend+ to whoever he's with.
Sully - 7/10. Solid cav, but not fantastic. Does the job, and has a great daughter at least, but I find she's often just shy of the strength or speed she needs to kill shit on her own. Makes great pair-up bait though.
Virion - 6/10. Okay, I dunno about the average Virion, but in my runs he has been amazing....after gaining some levels. Start is rough, though. I'll leave it at that, since I clearly got RNG blessed Archest of Archers.
Stahl - 4/10. Stahl...has problems. I like him anyway, but he just feels too slow, not quite durable enough, and just a bit overall lacking. While Sully, his rival Cav, and Kellam, his rival tank, can get shit done without pair-up...Stahl really feels like he needs it too much.
Vaike - Vaike/10(okay, 4/10). Stahl, trading the ability to sometimes survive hits for the ability to sometimes kill things. Also, if you want a Berserker and don't feel like making Robin it, he's your only real choice until kids. Hey, IS, stop making the Berserker line either hard to access(only one Ocean Seal~), or terrible(prepromo only~), or both.
Miriel - 5/10. Feels like the baseline for mages in this game.
Sumia - 6/10. Flyer, but...not a good one. Only so bad you can be with that move and flying, though. Again, that's all I'll say since I apparently got RNG screwed on Sumia two runs in a row. Sumia? Killing things ever? Sounds like a bad joke to me.
Kellam - 4/10. Doesn't feel right to give him a higher rating then Stahl, for all that I find him more useful. Kellam is Stahl+ on stats....but Knight movement. Yeah.
Lon'qu - 5/10. Feels pretty average. More useful as an Assassin then a SM imo, but either way not really good enough to do shit on his own, but not bad enough to feel like he lags behind. Average works.
Donnel - 6/10. God King Donnel, Lord of the Stats. Buuuut that rough start is painful. Mostly, I love him for having huge luck + Armsthrift if you send him towards Merc. I gave him a forged Lief's Sword when I made him a merc. He was still using that sword into Hero. Still, in a game where your concern is beating it with a minimum of fuss, he's not that hot I suppose.
Ricken - 1/10. I find Ricken borderline unusable. I tried to use him this time, he was terrible. Bad speed, bad offense, and his defenses are not that good either. He has nothing. I'd give him a 2, except he also makes a terrible parent and what do you know, there are enough guys to pair up with all the ladies without him.
Maribelle - 4/10. Horseyhealer, again with me and Rescue staff shenanigans so I have no trouble using her. Harder to keep her alive then it is Lissa, though. -1 for that, +1 for the move. Same score.
Panne - 7/10. Rough start, but once she gets rolling she's a beast. +1 for being the best user of a Second Seal besides Donnel.
Gaius - 6/10. He keeps getting compared to Lonqu, but I find them fairly different. Gaius has wound up waaaaay dodgier for me, but has even less ability to kill things. Effective evade tanking + thief skills is sweet despite the damage woes.
Cordelia - 7/10. Feels like a better Sumia across the board, but still not durable enough in evade or concrete to risk sending her too far away from the main force.
Gregor - 3/10. Despite how much I like Armsthrift, Gregor feels like he is just barely useful as soon as he joins...and if he gets his first couple levels as bad ones, he becomes bench bait very quickly.
Nowi - 5/10. Tanky, but has to be babied a bit to get her any sort of real offense. Not as good as Panne is with the second seal, so she doesn't get that same credit.
Libra - 6/10. Healbot, the obvious Bolt Axe user if you pick one up, does the job and does it well.
Tharja - 9/10. Nos is brutal, yeah. Has the stats to back it up, and as a nice bonus, the Dark Mage/Sorc skills are pretty good.
Anna - 6/10. She really is Libra+, but lack of support options gets dinged a point.
Olivia - 2/10. She can be really good. I had to baby her SO MUCH to get her to be strong enough to hang with the main force, though. On randoms, because she sure as hell can't manage that on sticking to maingame. Also while doing that, she died a bunch. Turned out great in the end, but Donnel did not take that much effort, AND he had a higher payoff.
Cherche - 7/10. Flying tank with some serious power? Yesplz.
Henry - 5/10. Henry has survivability problems for me, but I can see the potential there.
Say'ri - 5/10. Lonqu+? Yeah, works. Lack of support options makes me irritable, though.
Tiki - 8/10. Out of the box very strong dragon. Does the job, does it well, has a great supports in Sayri and Lucina, who kinda badly want a good support option.
Basilio - 5/10. Out of the box archer, mangles things but lack of supports that late is painful.
Flavia - 4/10. Like Basilio, but less useful IMO.
Lucina - 8/10. Better then her dad late, but Chrom has those early maps to be a badass on. Feels comparible.
Not doing the rest of the second gen, since....well, how they turn out depends so much on who you have them inherit stats/skills from.
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Since it's rag on Meeple hour apparently (in all seriousness, we do appreciate the work you did in maintaining the thread before), Meeple got on people's cases before for how they voted, threw out rankings that weren't serious enough, wanted everyone to use a strict 10 point scale and not use decimals, etc. I hinted at this in the post above, but I am going to explicitly state that is not how I do things. Rankings are subjective personal analyses. This is a safe space for your nerdy thoughts if you want to share them. If you think Cyan is a 10/10 character, you're weird, but that's your opinion and more power to you. So there is absolutely no problem with "I irrationally love Character X and play the game in such a way that X is great, 11/10 character of the year stand back GameFAQs." If you give silly rankings, awesome, just non-numerical ones might get left out of the spreadsheet. :)
The joke thing was because there were a number of people in a previous iteration of the topic that were doing crap like this, in addition to people like OK trying to be cute but weren't. Also, I never said "don't use decimals", I said "don't be obnoxious about them."
There are people who rate things drastically and are serious about it; trust me, we've seen this a lot in the previous topic, and I am going to count them. Yet, when we have a gameplay discussion, and people go "I deduct 2 points because this character has a bad personality!" in a topic all about gameplay...you can see why I took that stance. I understand you don't care as much, but everyone should at least be something similar to the same page.
"I played the game this way and they were great!" is legitimate subjective way to look at the character...I won't deny that. Play-style is what allows these things. Yet, outright saying "I know this character is great, but I hate their personality, so I deduct points from them as a result!" is...yeah. Not to mention someone in this topic outright deducted points from a character just because people were "overrating them" (this led to someone else actually adding the exact same number of points to the character purposely to offset it <_<); this is no longer gameplay discussion, it's just trolling and sniping at others. That's why ground rules are sometimes needed. If you want to do things your way, by all means go ahead.
Also, back then, for the anti-decimal thing (at least beyond the 10ths place) was because of two things that have since changed. One is unfamiliarity with Spread Sheets (I've since gotten at least a little familiar with them that I could pull it off), as well as Hal did create the "!avg" function which gets the Average nonsense done for me as is. Back when I use to do this, that wasn't available at first (Hal created it mid-way), so I had to count them manually (if there was an easier way, no one told me it!), and having a "6.125" in the mix can really fudge with counting.
Honestly, I was thinking of continuing this topic as is, just ending Suikoden where it stands (as I said, BAD IDEA on my end), and if people really wanted to recast something, they'd say it. People can still vote on older games (as Random did with Wild ARMs), even if it ends up not being counted, people like to express their thoughts.
Hey random time to check back in on stuff.
So..."I don't want to name names" and "it was OK" is kind of a dick move if you ask me, but whatever. I was not really intending to make a lot of comments on this, but...eh, it's been a while, so why not. While this may come off a tad harsh...I guess that's somewhat intended, but not my main goal.
He's trying to be cute and be ULTRA SPECIFIC cause I asked to not do "x.75" and such cause that was really annoying me in the other topic (he was the only one doing that; people doing x.5s was rare initially, OK decided to abuse the fuck out of it and then go as far as x.25 and x.75). Generally, he's not doing a good job of it if you ask me, cause I don't believe for a second he actually thinks they're necessary and is trying to be different, etc. Gourry a while back did a better job rating things out of 255 just to annoy someone, if you ask me <_<
This was said way, way back on page 6 or so. Seriously, as I mentioned, this is all about me trying to come out and differentiate between characters that are really similar. After you made that comment (which I think is ridiculous - you have an issue with my serious rankings, and then said someone trolling the topic was doing better, when that wasn't even my intention!). I understand it was a joke, but it's like you were insulting me for trying to provide insight into your topic that you constantly wanted more votes in!
After that, I did a couple rankings out of 128, and used Roman Numerals (out of 10, so still appropriate!), and Tal did binary (also out of 10, so still appropriate!). We stopped that on page 8 after you made a comment about it. I admit, that was trolling since you made the comment earlier, which was stopped a long time ago. In addition to the games being boring (and real life in many instances - I missed a lot of deadlines due to work, but still ended up ranking them afterwards), another thing I know turned people off to this topic (having talked to others about it) was the way you made comments as above. It frankly seemed like you were only encouraging a specific way to rate and insulting others for being a bit different but still conforming to your ruleset for ranking. I agree with the elf that a 1-10 scale should be used for normalization purposes, and that this is meant to be an objective scaling, which I think people generally were doing overall (and giving a rating with a comment about personality does not necessarily indicate that's the pure reason they ranked them there, especially with other reasoning). Again, not really meant to be an attack on you, Meeple, but I know there were several people turned off by those constant comments that often felt belittling at points.
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Since the occasional disagreement can be more interesting than all the agreement, some more comments on FEA Kids, especially Nah....
I do think that Elf / Ciato rankings on kids are mostly fair enough if you only care about completing the game, with the exception of Owain & Nah. I do think that rating the kids should presume you are using both parents, *but* that can get weird if you're 100% refusing to grind for the non-combat characters as Elf hinted at already. Mostly in that if you're using Olivia-as-a-dancer / healer Maribelle/Lissa, they probably aren't paired up and are getting support points way too slowly by spreading out the healing / dancing. So the kids just don't plain exist. I suppose if you were doing no-grind AND deeply wanted to use Owain/Brady, you could wait for promotion, then have battle Sage/Valk Lissa & Maribelle pair-up with their future husband for the midgame, and put someone else in charge of healing? Inigo is just kinda doomed meanwhile in such a scenario, battle-Olivia-as-a-dancer isn't gaining any levels, so you're using her similar to Elf's suggestion on Donny where her sole job is to luck-twink someone in a pair-up, and Inigo iis stuck relying solely on his father for some stats. And hell, even if you grind Olivia up some, you still only want to recruit Inigo pretty dang late, so yeah, he's really an aftergame focused character (or Lunatic w/ some grinding). Brady, uh, yeah, he's terrible for all the reasons stated without baking in grinding / potential aftergame nonsense. Owain, however, I think gets the biggest boost from "assume at least a tiny bit of grinding so that Lissa isn't getting married super-late AND Lissa isn't deeply underlevel." His stats should not be THAT bad, especially if he's got a fighter father, and if Lissa married Henry or something, well, you know what to do, you now have a not-slow Dark Mage or whatever.
Meanwhile, no arguments that if you just want to complete the game, Cynthia / Yarne / Kjelle deserve some credit for being reasonably easy to get early and having the raw stats to make the catch-up stage not pure pain, but even then, they're only averageish ultimately, you can just keep adults deployed and probably be fine too. (Except for maybe Lunatic.)
The one ranking I think can't be written off as "varies with what you assume the parent did and grinding" is ranking Nah at ~2ish and also ranking Tiki at ~8ish, though. Tiki & Nah are basically the same; they should not be so far apart. Yes, Nah's & Gerome's recruit map are insanely hard for whatever reason (far harder than Noire's or Tiki's, whose Paralogue numbers suggest they should be comparable), so you're getting her lateish. I did it after C20 (Walhart's last stand) in my most recent playthrough after frustration from attempting it earlier (C17-18ish?) and having Maribelle OHKO'd due to a surprise wall opening and someone being barely in range and OHKOing on the nose. (Shifting walls, Counter-Warriors, Waste & Ruin, Mire, yeesh.) However, waiting is not a big deal, it just means her parents stats will be even better, and Nah doesn't have the "hopelessly behind in weapon levels" problem. I had a slightly overlevel Nowi for the occasion (30/7, husband Gaius at 20/14 Assasssin), a result of Nowi & Gaius soloing half of Yarne's recruitment map. (Send dragon to go deal with the mounted troops in the forest because screw attempting to fight hordes of high-move enemies fairly, send ENTIRE REST OF ARMY to deal with Armor Knights. Ocassionally toss Physic in her direction, eventually Rescue so that she can replace her Dragonstone from the convoy due to killing everyone.) I actually still have the stats available, Tiki was recruited after C19 and had only done C20:
Str/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res , no Dragonstone bonuses
L10 Nah
18/18/19/18/17/11
L25 Tiki
23/20/22/25/20/16
That is *not* that far behind for being 15 levels off. And Nah can hold her own if used carefully (even more carefully if Nowi wasn't a tad overlevel, sure). By the end of her recruit map, she was L15. Since she's naturally tanky, it's not like you have to concoct situations where there's just 1 wounded guy in range for fear of the kid getting slaughtered by. Nah is Tiki, do you want a late-joining dragon who will murder everything y/n. I can see penalizing her some points for what is still a *somewhat* rockier start than Tiki, and the triple/quadruple dragon grlz army is expensive to field (yikes at Dragonstone / DS+ prices), but she should at *least* be comparable to Cynthia or Yarne, a character that doesn't embarrass themselves in combat. There's also penalizing for just not having much game left due to the optimal time to do her Paralogue being so late, but eh, Basilio & Flavia get okay ratings, and characters like Athos usually get good ratings, so.
Incidentally, on the note of the dragons.... a *fun* way to play the game is to have "slots" for users, so you've got your cavalier, your sword-user, your axe-user, your tank, your mage, your archer, etc. And that's how Virion got used twice by me - hey I want to deploy an archer. Objectively speaking though, I'd have been fine just plain deploying a better unit and skipping out entirely on the archer niche. I certainly would have given Nowi a 5/10 myself before this playthrough: hey, I'll use her for pair-up bait for a few chapters then bring in the superior Manakete. However, if you could deploy an army of all Ephraims in Sacred Stones, would you? Dragons are kinda boring strategically since they do well against almost everything, but aside from cost issues, I suspect "optimal" playthroughs have no problem with just using 'em all. Sure, Nowi is worse than her dragon competition by the endgame, but she's still good. And even if Nowi hypothetically did 0 damage, this is the game with pair-up attacks, while she takes 2 damage a shot her boy-toy can murder everyone instead on counters. (Goddamnit, Japan.)
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(I will respond to this when I have a device with an Excel spreadsheet.)
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Yeah, the problem is that for a kid to be good, his/her parents both need to be up-to-speed level-wise. And keeping a healer or dancer well-levelled means using them for healing or dancing, i.e. not gaining supports very fast. I think that's definitely an extra hoop those kids have to jump through. It's true that the later you recruit a kid, the better their stats are, but they're still only gaining stats 2/3 as fast as their parents before you recruit them, so generally speaking they'll be more useful if recruited sooner.
Past that, I don't think Owain looks very good anyway? Even assuming his parents are both up to speed, Lissa just... doesn't pass very good stats. She has bad strength, bad speed, and bad defence, probably the three most important stats for a physical Owain. The skills she's likely to pass are bad too (except Healtouch, but a kid who needs a second seal is not my idea of a practical healer). Owain's own bases are kinda meh, particularly strength. I'm not sure what father would really salvage him as a fighter option compared to Kjelle, Cynthia, Yarne, Sevara, etc., all of whom have mothers with better stats and comparable or better overall base stats themselves. Now, Lissa can pass down decent magic, but that has its own host of problems: the non-Robin male mage parents pass bad speed down (something Owain really doesn't need), and unlike Laurent, Owain will need a second seal to use magic (that or rely on Levin Swords which are in short supply) putting him in need of further levelling before he starts paying off.
On that note, also related to Lissa, in your Libra comments you'll note that Lissa is better long-term. This... isn't really true at all, though you'd sadly think if should be. Here are their stats as Level 20 War Clerics (yeah you can promote Lissa differently, but you can second seal Libra to Sage also, so whatever).
Lissa: 53.5 HP, 19.3 Str, 26 Mag, 22.2 Skl, 25 Spd, 32.7 Lck, 16.6 Def, 22.1 Res
Libra: 56.1 HP, 21.6 Str, 25.5 Mag, 23.5 Skl, 23.5 Spd, 18.6 Lck, 17.7 Def, 23.6 Res
Lissa's got a small speed lead which is certainly nice, but it feels offset by Libra's win in concrete durability (and ability to use the Bolt Axe, I suppose). It's certainly possible Lissa wins this exchange but it's extremely close, and any victory here does not offset a large part of the midgame where Libra is dramatically better.
Regarding the manakete points, I should note that I'm not averse at all to using multiples of a class. In FE9, for instance, you should very obviously use lots of paladins, and scored the game appropriately. For what it's worth, though, I'm a little less taken with general manakete hype? Even once manaketes go into their post-second seal awesome phase, they don't have amazing offence, just amazing defence, and you don't need that many units with the latter. It's possible I'm underrating Nah in particular somewhat, though, my kneejerk was "manakete gained after chapter 20 who is 20 levels away from their exp spike = meh" and honestly the stats you posted did little to convince me otherwise. A late PC who starts underlevelled and even at best is your #3 manakete just isn't very impressive.
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Re Owain: Yeah, it's a minor nitpick. I think we all agree on the substantive points, just a matter of weighting them. Owain potentially can be terrible, sure, I'm just willing to toss him a bone for his theoretical use even in a no-postgame, little-grind run.
Re Libra / Lissa: I freely admit I might be biased that my time using Libra was on Lunatic, where he was doubled and murdered whenever any mean enemy units got near, and wasn't a particularly inspiring Pair-up either. Meanwhile, Lissa hasn't usually been THAT behind for me to give him much midgame credit - if Lissa is L13-15 by Libra join, whatever. Anyway, War Cleric is a hilarious class, but I do think part of the Lissa ~ Libra hype is from Lissa going to Sage which is usually better (C14 excepted!). I find that's far more useful if Lissa needs to kill something; there's a niche of enemies she'll authentically kill, now (Wyvern Riders, Knights), and mages don't have to make the Hand Axe vs. Killer Axe choice War Clerics do. Sages in a pair-up can do some offense, too. And yes, you can get to L10 and Second Seal Libra I suppose, but eh.
Re Nah: Well, L10->20 still come reasonably fast. And it's the stats that matter: if Nah's stats are comparable to Tiki's, and Tiki is good, then either both should be good or both be bad. It's not "if you catch Nah up to Tiki their stats are comparable," it's "starting Nah and starting Tiki only slightly favors Tiki, they're both comparable, and if you catch Nah up to an equal level she is actually better." Starting at L10 rather than L20 is pretty much an advantage that Nah has on Tiki, even if the L1-10 spike comes later. And yeah, maybe Nah will be your #3 Dragon, but that still isn't a bad place to be, at least IMHO. See Makalov, etc.
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Whee, weighing in on these points.
Re: Owain. The problem is, Owain is not likely to *exist* on a no-postgame, little grind run. Healers don't build supports fast, you kinda need to grind those to get Lissa to S. Can't have her only heal the same guy every round, and she doesn't pair up well(since she doesn't have an attack to double attack with and all), and if you do pair up with her to get the supports....she's not gaining exp, so Owain gains less. Just not seeing it.
Re: Nah. I'm going to be the one to say it here. "Oh man, Nah was really good after I *favored Nowi and Gaius to comical levels*, she's totally as good as Tiki" is what I read that bit up there as. Send Nowi/Gaius pair up to tank half of a fairly dense map on their own? Sorry man, that's not really normal Nowi use. This is why I neglected to rank the kids, because this kinda stuff happens. Use the parents alot? The kids get good. Use them just enough to get the S support and don't grind much? Also don't favor any specific pair so the exp is more spread around? They end up less good.
EDIT: To expand on this a bit, I am *expressly grinding* to get parents to 20/15ish levels if I want to pass on those skills this playthough. And you know what it's requiring? A lot of grinding. For each pair. Some got their levels from maingame use(Chrom/Sully(Who hit 20/1 and 20/5 before Lucina joined due to immese favoritism), Avatar/Cordelia, Donnel/Miriel), but the rest are taking grinding. And alot of it. Being in the process of doing this myself is why I feel I can call that blatant parent favoritism. Hey, I'm doing it too! Doesn't mean I'm going to claim Laurent is a badass because of it, though.
That being said, I'd personally give Nah a 4-6 rating somewhere around there, depending on what skills she inherits. I haven't played Lunatic yet(beyond the first few maps), maybe she's better on that. But for Hard, and aiming for a general lack of grinding? Yeah, she's one of the better kids. Still not as good as Tiki. I also don't penalize people for having hard recruitment maps, though. If I did, take a point off of her, since that one is just crazy.
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Gate: Believe it or not, I am not really grinding at all on this runthrough!* Well, not relevant for Nah, at least. I am however not throwing XP at any of the parents outside the characters I'm using this runthrough. There's still plenty of XP to go around! This was not exclusive favoritism of Nowi the whole time, it was merely that she had a map where she ate a ton of XP because doing Yarne's recruitment earlyish means you probably should use a tactic like that (it would be her or a Dark mage w/ Nosferatu), and yes, I already said that Nowi ended up a tad overleveled. Not by as much as you'd think, though. According to Elf's numbers, Nowi / Taguel Panne should hit 30/17 around C25. Having Nowi at 30/7 after C20 is not amazingly ahead of the game, and in fact is not surprising since levels 1-10 come super-fast. It's within normal variance, I'd say. Hitting somewhere from 20/10-20/15 on your vanilla humans by C20 is not hard at all either and does not require comical overlevelling or favoritism.
I know what you're talking about favoritism & parent grinding, though. That's certainly what I did in my Lunatic Casual playthrough! ...which is pretty useless for guessing child worth in Hard Classic no-grind, yes. Later levels of Lunatic normal game are brutal enough to want some broken kids, though.
* Okay, so I *did* support grind Chrom / Maribelle early because I wanted to see the S conversation rather than get married by default. I also wanted to use Olivia this run *on Classic*, so to prevent hair pulling out, she got ground via EXPonential Growth to be a L1 Pegasus Knight, but I stopped there - any XP after that she has to earn normally. (And hell, she's still underleveled for combat even giving her those 9 free levels.) I also grinded Noire a tad because lol archers. None of that has anything to do with Nowi / Gaius, though.
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Fire Emblem: Awakening- playstyle note: characters are generally assumed to just second-seal into their promoted class or their alternate promotion once levels exceeded 40, with exceptions for Olivia and Donnel who have to class change to be combat-viable. I know, boring, but I tend to play games to DL parameters when viable, it's a quirk.
Chrom- 7/10. Generically solid.
Robin- 7/10. Very good, but unfortunately she really needs both offensive stats, plus speed and to a lesser extent skill, to pan out; more than minor screwage in any of them really wrecks her flexibility niche.
Lissa- 5/10. Thanks to the way staves roll now, she tends to promote early, making up her statistical shortcomings somewhat. At least enough to staffbot until superior options present themselves.
Frederick- 5/10. Desperately needs that second seal into Paladin.
Sully- 7/10. Good all around. Serves your spear-y needs.
Virion- 2/10.
Stahl- 4/10. I mean you could. But why.
Vaike- 3/10.
Miriel- 6/10. Basically a Magic Swordmaster, which I can dig.
Sumia- 7/10.
Kellam- 4/10.
Lon'qu- 5/10. Magic Swordmaster better than regular swordmaster.
Donnel- 5/10. I could almost see like an 8 (I mean, yes he has to eat a second seal, but he'll suddenly be your best unit when he does, just having base stats above 0 will make him statistically above your other characters at level 10-15) except he has to start over on weapon ranks, negating the stat advantage you already spent time and effort to get.
Ricken- 2/10.
Maribelle- 4/10. Lissa but joins later.
Panne- 5/10. Really wishes her L15 skill worked in other classes.
Gaius- -/10. Suicidal.
Cordelia- 7/10. Not meaningfully different from Sumia, aside from eugenics.
Gregor- 5/10. Secretly is in fact a run of the miller guy.
Nowi- 3/10. Her durability is a sham; she eats doubles to everything. If you can get her to L30, this will rapidly correct itself but that takes a hell of a lot longer than Donny to pay off.
Libra- 4/10. Staffbot.
Tharja- 8/10. Nos, with some actual speed and concrete to back it up. Crazy.
Anna- 6/10. All purpose utility. HP is problem.
Olivia- 2/10. Worst dancer in the series. She has SM, and can get great milage out of that, except she can't DANCE in any other class. I get why they didn't want Dance to be transferable to other classes, that would make it an inheritable skill. As is her options are either viable unit who's less good than others at killin', or a special unit that you can't deploy because she WILL die and inevitably fall behind and die even harder, ad infinitum.
Cherche- -/10. Didn't get a good read on her.
Henry- 5/10. Nos helps his speed issues be less damning but... still.
Say'ri- 5/10. Is basically Lon'qu from what I could tell.
Tiki- 7/10. Doesn't suffer Nowi's issue of her durability being effectively halved, and joins at a time when you can get dragon stone+ and way closer to L30 when the madness begins.
Basilio- 5/10.
Flavia- 6/10.
Hum. I'll just note my own kids and parentage, and rate accordingly.
Lucina- 8/10. Oh hi.
Owain- (Gregor) 3/10. Lissa/Gregor hamper all his key stats.
Inigo- (Kellam) 3/10. Not meaningfully different from Gregor (whee likely inheriting nothing from mom) aside from the inherent kid disadvantage.
Brady- (Virion) 2/10. No point, will never be better than your other healers.
Kjelle- (Donnel) 5/10. Any kid of Donnel's will be a walking god so.
Cynthia- (Chrom) 8/10. Pegga-Pony AETHER DEATH GODDESS.
Severa- (Stahl) -/10
Gerome- (Libra) -/10.
Morgan- (Frederick) 2/10. Just not up to snuff.
Yarne- (Ricken) 2/10.
Laurent- (Lon'qu) 2/10. Multiple Magic Swordmasters would get kinda redundant.
Noire- (Vaike) 2/10
Nah (Henry) 4/10.
Gangrel- 2/10
Walhart- 2/10
Emmeryn- 2/10
Yen'fay- 2/10
Aversa- 5/10
Priam- 2/10. Only Aversa isn't a worse version of some other character. Aversa is still really damn bad for when you get her, but Shadowgift is awesome so she at least merits some actual thought.
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Friendly ping / reminder: I'm going to update this in ~3 days or so.
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Chrom - 7.5/10 All-around good. Wishes he could get real 1-2 range before using a Master/Second Seal, though.
Robin - 9/10 Can do anything, including "be the best", only not all at once. Rally Spectrum, while late, is crazy good.
Lissa - 5/10 Heals. Levels quickly because of FE13 staff formulas, but even with a level edge she won't impress in combat.
Frederick - 6.5/10 Questionable long term potential, but excellent to indispensable at the start.
Sully - 8/10 Feels like one of the game's best units. Good stats, good class, and there are plenty of +Str/Def guys for her to choose from.
Virion - 4/10 Early archer, with all the traditional issues. The renown longbow is a nice trick, although he can't use it at base.
Stahl - 5/10 It feels weird to rank one cavalier so far below the other, but... Sully is indispensable, Stahl is not.
Vaike - 5.5/10 Teach is glad that Fighter can promote into Hero. His same-gender supports (Chrom and Lon'qu) merit recognition.
Miriel - 7/10 Good Magic and Speed, with DM/Sorc and Troub/Valk as class options if you've a Seal to spare. Durability is problematic, granted.
Sumia - 7/10 Tons of speed, and flies. Wishes she had more support choices, but being The Speedster is a good trick in a game when enemy speed is frequently a thing. Going DF for eventual Galeforce is not necessarily optimal but certainly worth considering.
Kellam - 4.5/10 The tanking is good early, but lategame Kellam is mostly just a backup guy. A solid one, mind you, but he's hardly alone in that.
Lon'qu - 5/10 Fast. It's a good place to start, but 1-2 range would be nice, too.
Donnel - 5.5/10 Villager is atrocious, but training Donnel is manageable, and I genuinely feel that he (and his kid) pay off in late/postgame. Also, a half point for Armsthrift hilarity, although objectively it's not worth delaying Hand Axe-cess.
Ricken - 2/10 Good things I have to say about Ricken: "better start than Donnel". End list.
Maribelle - 4/10 Better class than Lissa, better skills than Lissa, but she's still worse at their shared role. Which is a commendable achievement by game design, I suppose.
Panne - 7.5/10 What if Donnel's start didn't suck? Wyvern Panne does start sinking in the late game, since she can't ditch her bow/wind weaknesses without losing her 1-2 range, and like him she needs a Second Seal to get there at all. But the payoff remains impressive.
Gaius - 4/10 Between Lon'qu and Anna, I struggle to see the point of Gaius, but he's not _bad_.
Cordelia - 6.5/10 Better Str/Def and more support options than Sumia; on paper Cordy's better, but practice seems to lean slightly to the klutz.
Gregor - 4/10 "Hey, it's a Gen 1 guy that offers good Pair Up boosts!" "Throw him onto the pile with the others."
Nowi - 5/10 Give her a solid Spd/Def pair up (hi Gregor) and a ton of EXP early, and she does pay off. BUt if you _don't_ do that, you're not getting much out of her. So, 5/10 seems fair; Panne and Avatar cope with NOT being favored much better than Nowi does.
Libra - 5/10 Heals. Can fight okay, early on. Expect little else.
Tharja - 6.5/10 Skill and Luck are great dump stats to have, although she _does_ feel 'em. Dark Magic is great.
Anna - 6/10 Heals, picks locks, competent offense while the Levin Swords hold out. She's frail, but by FE13 healer standards...
Olivia - 5/10 Balanced performers are not as enjoyable as I had hoped. Still, when your plan calls for a dance, there's no substitute to accept.
Cherche - 5/10 Solid, if unexciting.
Henry - 4/10 More exciting, but less solid. Still, if you can work around the Speed...
Say'ri - 4.5/10 Good base stats, Anna's support list. Adequate filler, but I don't find myself needing filler too often in FE13 (or, at least, needing filler that can't unlock a Paralogue.)
Tiki - 5/10 See Say'ri, except that Tiki can hope to get to L30, seal to L1 and go for a snowball effect. Also, 1-2 range counters with no strings attached, always a plus.
Basilio - 3.5/10
Flavia - 3.5/10 Flavia is better against most enemies, but not great, and Basilio is better at Rally and backup. Eh, they can tie.
Trying for an aggregate-parent kid analysis. Usually I ignore "difficulty to recruit", but here I feel I need to give it at least some weight, since it winds up affecting how much trouble certain kids are to catch up.
Lucina - 7/10 Yeah, I think slightly below Chrom is fair.
Owain - 3/10 One of the easier Paralogues, but his mother is a mage and his father probably won't be, which hurts his combat potential.
Inigo - 2/10 Being Olivia's son is problematic, from a "exists in a reasonable timeframe while inheriting good stats" perspective. Recruitment chapter can get painful, too.
Brady - 2/10 Having Maribelle as a mother kind of ruins the point of being a kid, and I don't know why Brady of all people was randomly docked a weapon rank. He can spam Rescue for easy EXP, but why bother?
Kjelle - 6.5/10 One of the best kids.
Cynthia - 4/10 If you expect trouble training her for combat, have Mom pass down Rally Speed.
Severa - 5/10 Merc -> Hero is generally a great place to be, and she's better for rallies than Cynthia since she's more likely to inherit one from Dad.
Gerome - 3/10 Typically a late-joining project with dubious performance in his joining chapter. That's... hardly ideal.
Morgan - 7/10 Inherit Veteran (or immediately swap to Tactician) and enjoy.
Yarne - 5.5/10 Panne, except the start is worse and the finish is better (Yarne can tank bows!)
Laurent - 3/10 A slower, bulkier Miriel? That didn't work out for Ricken, either. I suppose there's always Dark Mage.
Noire - 4.5/10 Bows are a great way to have EXP fed to you, and 2-3 range bows are an adequate justification for doing so. Or you could reclass Noire into Dark Mage and be one weapon rank from Nosferatu, your call.
Nah - 2.5/10. Like her mother, but significantly more of an investment.
Gangrel - 2.5/10 Fast and, for a FE13 healer, bulky. But neither his healing nor his fighting are impressive.
Walhart - 4/10 Solid combatant. Pity about the supports, or lack thereof.
Emmeryn - 3/10 If you feel your healing is insufficient, there is a solution.
Yen'fay - 2.5/10 I do not find myself needing Swordmasters (or no-WEXP Wyverns/Snipers) in the late game.
Aversa - 4.5/10 - Galeforce is excellent. Shadowgift is neat, too.
Priam - 4/10 Stats are good, skills are good... hopefully, you still have something to fight.
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Chrom: 7/10. Yeah, Ike9 works.
Avatar: 8.5/10. Think some people are overrating Robin a tad, but nonetheless, very good character.
Lissa: 4/10. Early game healer, isn't worth much beyond that.
Frederick: 5/10. In theory, decent Jeigan who clearly has a time pass, but I've never felt needed to use him outside of getting Donnel, so dunno how much credit I can give him.
Sully: 7/10. Solid Cavalier character.
Virion: 4/10. Not that solid Archer who can be alright, but probably won't be.
Stahl: 7/10. On paper, Sully variant, in practice...dunno, haven't used much, but I'll just assume same score works.
Vaike: 5/10. Early Axe user, not much beyond that.
Miriel: 6/10. Decent early game mage, but as game goes on, better options exist, though she's never actually bad.
Sumia: 7.5/10. Good Peg Knight character.
Kellam: 7/10. if Pair Up didn't exist, he'd be lower but Pair Up does exist, so you can compensate for his flaws. A tank who can seriously eat two crits in a row, and just not give a shit.
Lon'qu: 5/10. Alright Myrm, but always feels like he's a bit lacking in Strength pre-Swordflaire, which is late.
Donnel: 6/10. On one hand, he's one of the most painful things to raise ever. On the otherhand, when he gets enough levels, he becomes downright psychotic after a point, and that point is early enough that he can be useful. Docking him a point for having to use nothing but E Rank weapons after "promoting" though.
Ricken: 3/10. I used him in my first game...I regret that decision and benched him eventually.
Maribelle: 5/10. Lissa with higher mobility, and Demoisselle...this works.
Panne: Abstain. I never used her with Second Seal, so to me she's unimpressive, but allegedly she gets much better with Second Seal so...
Gaius: 4/10. I want to give more points to the Thief thing, unfortunately, someone later can fill that niche and more out of the gate.
Cordelia: 7/10. Sumia variant, feels a touch worse, so half a point lower.
Gregor: 5/10. Always felt a tad too slow to be anything higher than average. Makes good Pair Up bait I guess.
Nowi: 4/10. Sorry but I don't see her as very useful. I tried using her seriously on two files and she was unimpressive on both. Tanky, sure, but never quite to the point where she doesn't die, and the lack of Offense is a legitimate problem since it means she has that much problems leveling up to keep her defense in check.
Libra: 5.5/10. Prepromo with healing an adequate offense out of the gate, sure.
Tharja: 8/10. Nosferatu Hax goes so damn far in this game, I can't stress how much I've fallen back on that strategy in my first game.
Anna: 6/10. Why Libra wasn't higher; Anna can do the healing thing too, but also Thief uses and makes a prime Levin Sword user as a pseudo-Mage.
Olivia: 3/10. Dancers are cool, Olivia has enough issues to make you not want to use one though. Cost of most of my resets when I used her.
Cherche: 5/10. I want her to be higher but both times she's felt kind of...eh. Not bad, but nothing special either.
Henry: 6/10. Tharja...with much worse starting speed who joins later. That's enough for 2 points lower, sadly.
Say'ri: 6/10. Solid Prepromo.
Tiki: 9/10. My first file, I thought she was merely solid. Second file, I second seal'd her and realized this isn't fair to the game and probably will not do that again simply out of pity for it!
Basilio: 5/10. Good for filling up late game slots, not much else.
Flavia: 6/10. See Basillio, but better at it I feel.
Lucina: 7/10. The catch up time is a flaw, but infinite concoctions, 12 Might Weapon and immediate Aether + Rightful King make catching up easier than it could have been, and she's basically Chrom+ when she does catch up so...yeah, same score works.
Owain: 4/10. Unimpressive, I found, sadly.
Inigo: 6/10. Significantly more impressive, meanwhile.
Brady: 3/10. Late game Healer who...ummm...er...yeah, no.
Kjelle: 7/10. Found her quite effective once you get her out of Knight.
Cynthia: 6/10. A bit lacking in raw strength I found to really be effective.
Severa: 6/10. Variation of INigo, I found.
Gerome: 5/10. Similar to his mother, really.
Morgan: 8/10. Yeah, Robin who needs to play catch up, I'll go with this.
Yarne: Abstain. See Panne basically.
Laurent: 6/10. Miriel with more late game worth once caught up.
Noire: 6/10. Passable enough.
Nah: 3/10. Nowi's problems all blown up further who joins later.
I find most of the kids are good at overcoming their catch up time, so I don't hold too many points off that, though, how hard the map is I possibly should hold against them.
Not going to rate the aftergame PCs because there's so little left there.
I'll rate the DLC PCs I did get though! As a reminder, all of them have access to the same jobs Robin/Morgan have, and Marth has a unique job on top of that.
Marth: 7/10. Basically another Chrom/Lucina, when all is said and done, albeit misses Aether and Rightful King but we'll say the class spectrum offsets that.
Roy: 3/10. Gregor has comparable/better stats than him at a similar level, and joins earlier. Roy's special trait of having Aegis early doesn't mean much when Aegis relies on stats to kick in, and Dualstrike+ doesn't really save him. Oh yeah, he also misses the Mercenary skills.
Micaiah: 9/10. Tharja+, loses Dark Mage skills in favor of Shadowgift...WINNING TRADE. Makes a good Dark Knight for that alone, let alone a Dark Flier if you get her high enough.
Leif: 8/10. Anna with a huge lead in stats. Low on Staff levels but you can raise those faster than expected.
Alm: 5/10. Free Dread Knight = Good! The speed however kills his use notably, to the point where he needs a good Speed Pair Up to just not be doubled. Hard to ignore Attack+10 of course, and if you put him in a fast class after he gets 10 levels, he gets way better.
Seliph: 7.5/10. Dunno why but he felt less effective than Leif. THAT SAID, he's still a male Galeforce user who gets Astra in a few levels and has stats good enough to justify it, so he's pretty darn good.
Elincia: 5.5/10. Mobile Staff Bot, that's pretty much all she's good for. Good at it mind you, but not much otherwise.
Eirika: 6.5/10. Good Bow User, of all things, makes a passable staff wielder too. Just wish she had higher ranks in Lances so I could be more flexible with her second class, but send her into a path with Bows and she should be good.
Lyn: 4/10. Sadly, uninspired Swordmaster who doesn't really have much going for her. Zeal on a Female is a perk, but it's really kind of an "eh, who cares" one.
Ephraim, Celica and Ike are pretty much aftergame only given the maps you deal with, so yeah, don't count.
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Results. (In slightly nicer form, see the full spreadsheet, which also has everyone's votes as I recorded 'em. It's here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnWZpz-xP-nLdHRnQVAwRHNhdnFtZFhrSm50UnVUdXc&usp=sharing )
Chrom 7.2
Avatar 8.9
Lissa 3.9
Frederick 6.8
Sully 6.8
Virion 3.3
Stahl 4.9
Vaike 4.0
Miriel 5.9
Sumia 7.2
Kellam 4.3
Lon'qu 5.2
Donnel 4.0
Ricken 2.2
Maribelle 3.6
Panne 6.8
Gaius 5.0
Cordelia 7.3
Gregor 4.4
Nowi 5.3
Libra 5.8
Tharja 8.4
Anna 6.8
Olivia 2.7
Cherche 5.9
Henry 5.1
Say'ri 5.7
Tiki 7.9
Basilio 4.8
Flavia 4.9
Lucina 7.7
Owain 3.0
Inigo 3.0
Brady 1.8
Kjelle 5.9
Cynthia 6.3
Severa 5.2
Gerome 4.1
Morgan 6.7
Yarne 4.8
Laurent 4.0
Noire 3.3
Nah 4.0
As everyone already noted, kid scores are a bit wonky due to fewer votes + vote weighting + variability, but so it goes. Some statistics, silly and otherwise:
Adults + Lucina:
Average 5.6, Median 5.3, Std. Dev 1.7
Everyone:
Average 5.2, Median 5.1, Std. Dev 1.7
Top ranked characters: Avatar (8.9), Tharja (8.4), Tiki (7.9), Lucina (7.7), Cordelia (7.3), Sumia (7.2), Chrom (7.2)
Bottom of the barrel: Brady (1.8), Ricken (2.2), Olivia (2.7), Owain (3.0), Inigo (3.0), Virion (3.3), Noire (3.3)
Averagest Joes: Henry (5.1) by the everyone median; Nowi (5.3) (the lil' attention-grabber) by the adults & Lucina median. Lon'qu and Severa speedily hover between the medians at 5.2, bookended by the two slow tanks... whatever that means.
Most contentious: Morgan (std. deviation 2.3); also Nowi and Nah (Standard Deviation of 2). Are underage dragon girls liabilities who get doubled and die, or unstoppable shock troops if somewhat unethical? No one agrees.
Most concurred: Lucina, Chrom, and Lon'qu (std. deviation: 0.4). Yet another parent-child pair, and also a sword dude. Everyone agrees: blue hair is pretty good. (Basilio, meanwhile, was *almost* a unanimous 5, but Malcom disagrees. HELL NOOOOOooo etc.)
(Stats nerdery: why top 7 / bottom 7? Because that's around "1 standard deviation above average" and "1 standard deviation below average.")
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Anyway, most of the heavily played DL games were re-ranked already, so... new blood time? Picking the recent ranked games in the CKDL, except for Gen 5, as Pokemon ranking is weird. (Probably an abridged set of Pokes if we ever want to do that one.) It's odd, as I thought we've ranked CSTW before, but checking the archives, I can't find it (well, other than the character-based ranking), so here we go, along with the zany adventures of Buffacow the 9th.
Mana Khemia 2
Raze
Lily
Et
Yun
Puniyo
Ulrika
Chloe
Pepperoni
Enna
Goto
Cthulhu Saves the World
Cthulhu
Umi
Sharpe
October
Paws
Dacre
Ember
Dem
October
Elona
Dark Umi
Molly
Sara
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Mana Khemia 2
Of a small note, unlike MK 1, I don't really remember any notable switch skills, unlike in MK 1
Raze- 7. Durable, awesome Timed Cards, Analyze, Big Damage Shot to switch out on
Lily- 7. The awesome damage dealer of Raze's path. She has basically all the damage types you want (cheap ST that's decently strong, timed cards, GT, MT) and it's very easy to give her skills that complement this. Might be a bit higher, but falls at endgame a bit (although still decent)
Et - 6. Et doesn't really appeal to my play style (racking up a lot of damage over a large number of turns with some variation). Obviously solid, but
Yun- 3. There, middling damage, horrible SP, could take hits worse.
Puniyo- 7. MT Revival+Healing, awesome at the final dungeon (not really a large factor, but tips between 6 or 7)
Ulrika- 7. Healing was solid, damage was okay but kind of whatever.
Chloe- 5. Great ST damage. Doesn't bring up else to the table, but as always, solid MAG at least lets you pick up whatever.
Pepperoni- 6. Tad better than Chloe overall, I think. He lacked SP, but was better on natural GT and taking a hit.
Enna- 8. Only Timed Card damage user on Ulrika's path was already a great niche. Interceptor is just another layer of greatness. Oh yeah, his Defend switch in was one of the few that stood out (cancel enemy action)
Goto- 1. Oh god, horrible. Doesn't even have the Mag to make anything worthwhile. The 1 point is for being the 5th in a 5 person game and I'm questioning whether that should even be worth a point.
My final team was Raze, Lily, Puniyo, Ulrika, Chloe, Enna
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Mana Khemia 2
NOTE: I have only played Raze's path, and have not finished it yet. Closing in on the end, but I remember what a massive spike Vayne gets at the end of MK1, so would not be surprised to find Raze(or maybe even someone else!) getting one here. Still, I've played enough that I feel okay on rating in-game use for the majority of the game.
Raze - 7/10. Analyze is always good, plus the best boss slugger of the cast mid to late game. Considering how beefy MK2 bosses can get, this is a very important role.
Lily - 8/10. Random smasher extraordinaire. I find myself forgetting just how much damage she does MT. She's not all that impressive in the boss fights, but oh man does she mangle randoms something fierce. Oh, wait, she has solid timed cards plus a move that inflicts Slow. Nevermind what I said about the boss fights.
Et - 4/10. She's strong enough early that it feels wrong to rate her this much lower then Raze...but really earlygame MK2 is not that big of a deal. She's great for filling up that unite meter, I guess. Otherwise she feels like she has a pretty sharp fall off in the latter mid-game.
Yun - 4/10. Better then Et late...but mostly just there. His skillset largely feels like wasted potential, Blazing Suit never feels worth it, and his AoE move and line target attack are great but just cost too much. Again, compares poorly to Lily on randoms and Raze on bosses.
Puniyo - 5/10. Her MT healing is nice....and easily replaced by items. Best CS user by miles....but CSes are just not as good as innate moves I find. Still, only real source of competent elec damage with those CSes, and that's a common enough weakness that she gets credit for it.
Lily and Raze feel like the only two who are straight up indispensable. If I could only have 3, I'd take those two and Puniyo without a moment's hesitation. Not really inspiring for Et and Yun.
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Administrative note
Meeple chatted me up tonight. He really wants to continue the topic himself and requested that he take over. So Meeple'll be handling this going forward.
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Mana Khemia 2
I only played Raze's path, so obviously that colours some ratings.
Raze: 5/10. Tends to rack up decent damage with timed cards, but not incredible, and kind of eh in randoms IIRC.
Lily: 7/10. Magic generally felt much better than physicals. There's nothing about Lily that really dominates but she has good stats where it counts and she smashes randoms well.
Et: 5.5/10. Generally felt able to output more damage than Raze at most points. But fairly similar past that.
Yun: 2.5/10. Mediocre. Yeah see the other two fighters only much worse.
Puniyo: 6.5/10. Not as good as Lily (durability mostly?) for much of the game, then skyrockets to obvious MVP towards the end.
Cthulhu Saves the World
Pretty well-balanced cast I think, I may have to think this one over though.
Cthulhu: 6/10. He's pretty solid, your red mage type. Generally does good damage, and all his stats are solid. He can do a bit of everything.
Umi: 7/10. Glass cannons work well in Cthulhu's system, and Siren's Call is so damn good. Wasn't always as good as the other main PCs at their respective offensive niches (though close at the fighter side, at worst), but could do any style of offence, had good unites, status, etc.
Sharpe: 5.5/10. Brings the pain in boss fights. Decent in randoms if and only if you're going for ST moves.
October: 5.5/10. Mm. Slow and frail, but that MT pain.
Paws: 4.5/10. He struggles to keep a niche, although "fast and does random oddball stuff" could be much worse.
Dacre: 4/10. Great healbot in bosses, garbage in randoms until late and even then he's still worse than October. Unfortunately he joins around the point of the game where bosses are in decline and I care a lot more about randoms.
Ember: 3.5/10. Good for a game-worst PC, certainly. He can tank like a champ and Volcanic Aura had some uses in randoms. But... poor offence in a ball lightning game.
Dem: DNR.
October: 7.5/10. Her MT damage felt completely ridiculous in this mode, she makes the earlygame a joke and stays really good forever. Slow and not super durable, whatever, everything dies.
Elona: 5/10. Umi minus all the cannoning. Or Dacre plus actual offensive options. It works well enough.
Dark Umi: 6/10. Queen of ST smash. Dies to everything (seriously, makes October look like a tank). But at least she's fast!
Molly: 4/10. The Paws of Angels mode kinda.
Sara: DNR.
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Ok, just wanna comment on a few things, because the next bits might be messy, so a bit of warning.
Going to count up the session before the dry spell, probably tomorrow, so expect to see that. Silly to leave that hanging.
We can continue MK2 and Cthulu simply because it's been started, be silly to stop now!
Probably won't be continuing Suikoden unless there's demand for it.
I will be using Snowfire's numbers, though modified a bit just to be consistent with my format; props for doing all that hard work for the game in any event.
And yes, I will be easing up on a number of...protocols? Things are different this time around, for a number of reasons.
Hopefully that clears this up...and I probably could have done some of these points not in single lines and made the post look less silly.
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Also regarding the administrative thing, well, you two can sort out what this topic will look like going forward and that's your business, not mine. But I will say that I really like the extra information we got this time and I hope it continues in some form. (i.e. Meeple, please either use a spreadsheet yourself or outsource it to someone, pretty sure it'll save time compared to using Hatbot-averages long-term and will also make it much easier to keep track of the top 20 overall, etc. edit: Plus, as mentioned, it allows you to add scores later e.g. when Random rates things a couple years later :) )
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Yeah, I can add in that extra stuff if you want. I'll probably stop the top/bottom 20s (or whatever they evolve into) each post, and just add them into the initial post so I can constantly change them as they update from here on in.
I can start adding in older noms too, though I don't when (if ever) I'll get to adjusting things done dramatically after.
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Mana Khemia 2
Raze: Decently durable, but sort of eh on the randombusting end. Analyze is good though. 6/10
Lily: Smashy for randoms, speed doesn't offend. 7/10.
Et: Lesser version of Raze more or less. 5.5/10
Yun: Warm body. 3/10
Puniyo: Good for CSes, but I kind of wish the innate skillset was a bit better. Oh well, Taro's Sternness is still an absurd endgame spike. 6/10
Ulrika: Not quite as impressed by the times sphere healing but it's still nice and the stats don't offend. 6/10
Chloe: Good magic stat, world of book, but good lord do you need CSes for crowd control like what. 6/10
Pepperoni: At least he's durable. 5/10
Enna: Interceptor and cancel on a defend switch is a pretty good niche to have yeah, though I don't remember him impressing on raw offense. 6.5/10
Goto: Isn't even good at being a warm body. 1/10.
Cthulhu Saves the World
Cthulhu: He both deals damage and takes hits acceptably, although he's never amazing. A few quirks end him up with an above average score. 5.5/10
Umi: Siren's Call and the cannoning are both pretty great. 7/10
Sharpe: Decent boss fighter. 5.5/10
October: Decent random buster. 5.5/10
Paws: Get a niche. 4/10
Dacre: Get some offense. 2/10
Ember: Get some offense. 2/10
Dem: DNR, basically aftergame.
October: Randomly a lot better than she is in vanilla. I blame earlygame. 7/10
Elona: Well she's around for a lot longer than Dacre is and she actually has offense. 5/10
Dark Umi: Smash oh and please don't die to a stiff breeze. 6/10
Molly: Decent. 5/10
Sara: DNR
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Mana Khemia 2
Mana Khemia 2 character balance is actually pretty decent: no character is overcentralizing and, outside two obvious duds, each PC covers useful niches and pulls his/her weight. There's also a cool variance in party dynamics between paths: the two parties play very differently and you have to work with the resources they hand you individually: Raze's path provides you with superior overall offense and a lot of timed card options, crowd control and doom bailout, but it sucks at dealing with timed cards and the overall durability spread is also problematic. Ulrika's path, on the other gives you more varied and potent defensive options, better durability spread, stronger short-term offense and Enna to handle pesky timed cards, but no get out of jail for free card MT status healing+revival, little to no timed cards and far worse crowd control. The comparison ends up very interesting that way. Anyhow!
Razeluxe Meitzen: 5/10. The durability sponge in his own path, pretty much. Analyze and that are pretty much his niches, which I guess is fine, but nothing else is terribly interesting about him. On the other hand, he's never underwhelming, so perfect average works.
Lilianne Valendorf: 7.5/10. Clear MVP for 75% of the game. Versatile, cost-efficient offense in your innate skillset is all you can ask from a mage in MK2, and she's the best at it until the very endgame, covering it all: single-target, timed cards, crowd control via both GT and MT. Even when her offensive lead wanes at endgame, Glaceration is a fun niche (elemental resistances get laughed at) and she always has the stats at the right places where they matter.
Etward Dysler: 6/10. There are actually many small things about Et to like: her offense output is game-best long-term in Raze's path, piling up damage in many ways like a motherfucker, she's the first character to have timed card offense and the only one with powerful crowd control physicals (in the form of timed cards as well) for a long time. Her short-term output is problematic for a prolonged period, though (and always very cost-inefficient, though it stops mattering at some point), and her resources are somewhat high-demand. Durability is kinda sketchy too and she also has little means to boost her offense through equipment (no high-end crit+ weapons, no elemental offense to raise her damage through skills, etc.).
Yun: 3/10. Warm body. He comes into his own offensively at the endgame with Speedy Flame Bomb, which is good crowd control, and Flame Pillar, which is oddly powerful, but it's too little, too late.
Puniyo: 7/10. Healing that doubles as revival and status healing is always cool and the offensive ineptude on the base skillset is mitigated by common skills (remember, magic in MK2 is markedly badass). Lategame, she just becomes a monstrosity with Taro's Sternness. However, she always has statistical problems.
Ulrika Mulberry: 7/10. I find Ulrika to quietly be the borderline MVP of her own path. She has this neat niche as the mage with the best stats across the board and, while the healing is just decent, she's also the best at using Common Skills on her own path due to Mana Blessing, which suddenly fixes her earlygame offensive problems. Her status game is also oddly useful. Just generally has a very solid package, which is a pretty notable departure from Raze's middlingness.
Chloe Hertzog: 6/10. The short-term offense is pretty much unparalled (to the point of her scoring OHKOs nobody else can - even Pepperoni) and World of Booc is the better Analyze, along with having a neat support attack/defense skillset, but dear lord girl you have literally -no- crowd control without Common Skills. The stats also suck.
Pepperoncino: 5/10. Very durable and very damaging - even having -some- offensive variety in terms of crowd control - but he's very slow (due to having a lot of charge times on most of his skills) and magic is the superior option in Mana Khemia 2.
Ennarcia Dysler: 7/10. Shares the silent MVP moniker with Ulrika for very different reasons. Ennarcia's the only PC in Ulrika path to sport timed card offense, which they honestly -dearly- need, and it's also very cost-efficient and provides a bit of crowd control later too (or, alternatively, providing constant delay for much less cost-efficiency). But his real money lies in Interceptor: timed card offense is -nasty- against you and he's your only on-the-spot option to neuter them. Being all physical is a bit of a problem, but he also has a few very useful support attack/defend options as well.
Goto: 2/10. Awful. His only niches are stealing (lol) and getting instant turns eventually on support attack/defend. Otherwise, he has shoddy offense (middling offensive stats and crap mults) and cumbersome at best skills. Only thing keeping him from a 1 is the fact that having a warm body in MK system is significantly better than having a warm body in most other games, since more PCs improve your vanguard/support dynamics.
Rest later.
Cthulhu Saves the World
Cthulhu - 6.5/10. I don't really enjoy how poor his crowd control is, but his ST smash is very good and he has stats everywhere. Besides good damage, he's got tankiness and ways to exploit it against randoms, which I abused pretty hard as well.
Umi - 8/10. Wow, that durability blows. Wow, her skillset rules. Umi's ungodly versatile, sporting pretty much everything you want: healing, speed, damage, status, buffing, stat-busting, BAILOUT MT FULL HEALING OF DOOM AND DESTRUCTION... Siren's Call is also amazing. The durability keeps her from being even better, but CSTW does reward glass cannons with its system.
Sharpe - 6/10. Similar to Cthulhu, really. Better damage for a long time, but somewhat worse stats and the damage options are less interesting too.
October - 7/10. Wow, in spite of the paper durability and terrible speed, she's damn near the queen of randoms. Also capable against bosses, although not so much. The perfect ID is also a nice cherry on top, manhandling the tough individual HP blobs that show up in the lategame.
Paws - 4/10. Pretty haphazard. "Fast, does random stuff" is okay enough, though, and the MT sanity swapper is fairly cute.
Dacre - 4/10. Dacre sucks on randoms, but is quite good against bosses - frees up space for Umi offense to take the forefront and his own buffing is overall advantageous for party offense output. Problem is bosses take a nosedive more or less by the time Dacre joins, so that's not such a great niche.
Ember - 3/10. Fairly obvious game-worst PC. Being tanky is never bad in this game, at least, and he's not hopeless on randoms. He really needed more offense, though.
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Generally got the impression of Lily and Puniyo > Raze and Et > Yun from casually watching the game. :p
Cthulhu Saves the World
Cthulhu - 6/10. Good damage, not so good at MT the way I built him. (Not sure if he could be.)
Umi - 7.5/10. Fantastic damage, fast, and good healing.
Sharpe - 5/10. He's decent but not great.
October - 6/10. Good random smasher, bad against bosses.
Paws - 4.5/10. Decent at filling a hole but probably needed a tad more oomph overall. I still used him though!
Dacre - 3/10. Would be better in a game that isn't this one. The game is inherently ball lightning because of how the
Ember - 2.5/10. Is better than many of his archetype, which is sad.
Dem DNR
October - 7/10. Better in this mode due to strong earlygame. Seems to be even relatively worse against bosses.
Elona - 5/10 Suffices as party healer.
Dark Umi - 7/10 Trades healing and durability for EVEN MOAR DAMAGE! and is still fast as fuck
Molly - 4/10. A slighly weaker version of Paws who is better against bosses.
Sara DNR
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Rando comments: I'm obviously with Elf in strongly preferring some sort of spreadsheet continue to be used, preferably a web one (e.g. Google Docs, Dropbox, etc.). Have it be nice & public & all - just copy mine and create your own (I was planning a separate interior sheet per game). The extra stats are just fun and not that important; the ease in maintenance is.
Awakening retro comments (done before the rankings above): I edited my score of Brady down to 2 from my initial 3 after using him. Oh god even with EXPonential Growth grinding he's bad. Having Chrom as a father and he's still incompetent at combat, and despite being promoted and like 20/10, his Magic is puny as well, leading into the ol' "Oh I'll just charge forward into the horde and Rescue Staff back out. Okay, attacked. Oh. Brady's HORRIBLE STAFF RANGE means he can't actually grab her back without moving into attack range himself, which is suicide. Um. Crap." (Luckily, I'd deployed both Lissa & Maribelle as well, and had to Rescue chain them to have one of them get in range. STILL). Also knocked Owain down a point, yeah, those joining stats are worse than I thought, although I still think he's somewhat more salvageable. Also I am now 0/3 in recruiting Gangrel. I see.
Cthulhu Saves the World
Mostly with everyone else here. I built my team for base CSTW more around strong ST damage for reference.
Cthulhu 6/10. Works. Isn't as dominating as might be expected but he's solid.
Umi 8/10. Clearly the MVP since CSTW rewards ball lightning cannoning, which she can do, AND she can stall enemies with Siren's Call, AND she has solid healing, and she even gets the full-MT revive / status cure in Keep Fighting, which is awesome when you don't expect even boss fights to last past 7-9 turns or so. A few cute Unites, too.
Sharpe - 6/10. Fast ST damage, reasonable durability. I'll take it.
October - 6/10 She kind of has to pick between uber MT damage and uber ST damage, but hey, she's good at both. And if you went MT with her, you eventually get Death for broken ST 'damage'. Pity about the speed & defense.
Paws - 4/10. Cute tricks, some utility, is fast. Is *fun* to use but sometimes just killing everything is better.
Dacre - 5/10. Uhhhh. I dunno what to make of Dacre. "Cast an MT buff then MT healbot" seems a strong strategy against serious opposition, and he was quite helpful vs. the optional superboss. And heck, not much wrong with that vs. randoms either, who cares that Holy is late. Nevertheless, a strong feeling of meh since it feels like he doesn't pull his weight vs. easier randoms. I'm probably still underrating him but whatever.
Ember - 3/10. Has theoretical use (the all MT sweeping party, Volcanic Aura, use of Guard to draw attacks to him) yet I'd still rather use October. Nice try at the slow tank, it feels like if Ember had been ubered anymore he'd be broken.
Dem Didn't use either.
I thought the Angels were pretty dang balanced, myself. Played on Insane (although uh still not technically finished. I should fix that. 2nd-to-last dungeon at least.)
October - 6/10. I don't recall her earlygame sweeping being THAT good but maybe I picked the wrong level-up bonus. Solid regardless.
Elona - 6/10. Tanky, buffs over time, all the healing, ridiculous resouces, damage doesn't TOTALLY fail, she can help random-clear. Solid support.
Dark Umi - 6/10. The damage, all of it. Fears the enemy damage, of course. Super variable based on if enemies were spamming MT damage, if she can get away with draining hax, if she gets targeted at all, etc.
Molly - 5/10. Yeah, she's got damage and tricks and healing and draining, so she's the ideal character to solo with if things go terribly wrong? But all of her niches are done better by someone else in the full party. Still solid, can defend to draw attacks to herself at worst and maybe get another round of Umi offense out.
Sara Nope.
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Insane difficulty
Cthulhu: 5/10. The Cursed sword was the best thing about him. Otherwise he always felt substantially worse than Sharpe. The Insanity niche is cool but not that good, and it can backfire.
Umi: 6/10. She isn't fantastic against randoms, she kinda has to choose betwen healing (yes) and damage (no) and durability is a major issue. That said she's a better healer than Dacre.
Sharpe: 8/10. Very good speed/damage/durability makes him the most reliable damage dealer for the entire game.
October: 7/10. My midgame savior.
Paws: 2/10. I tried to find a niche for him the entire game. Meow is useful until Cthulhu gets the Cursed Sword. That's it.
Dacre: 4/10. So terrible against randoms. Can be a decent replacement for Umi as a healer against bosses.
Ember: 0.5/10. lol what
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I just want to note that I plan on doing updates on Saturdays. Whether it's every Saturday or every other Saturday, I haven't decided; held back on this week because of when this session started (on a Wednesday.) Just indicating this so people know what to expect when, and can hit me if I forget one week or something!
That said, overdue rankings:
Breath of Fire 4:Nina 8.67 1.03
Ryu 7.33 1.03
Fou-lu N/A N/A
Ershin 4.33 1.03
Cray 3.17 0.68
Scias 6.75 0.76
Ursula 7.50 0.55
Cast Average: 6.29
Cast Standard Deviation: 2.10
Suikoden 3 DEFG
Duke 3.30 0.44
Dupa 2.80 0.44
Edge 5.30 1.30
Elaine 5.70 1.56
Emily 8.00 0.35
Estella 5.40 0.82
Franz 3.80 1.52
Fred 5.50 1.27
Fubar 5.20 1.10
Futch 5.00 2.23
Gadget Z 2.20 0.44
Gau-3 4.50 1.00
Highest Ranking of this Session: Nina w/ 8.64
Lowest Ranking of this Session: Gadget-Z w/ 2.20
Suiko 1/2/4/5 as I said did not gain sufficient votes from what I can tell, hence why not listed. Also, no real point in getting arbitrary stats for Suiko 3 here since it's not the full cast; this is an exceptional situation, won't be the norm, don't worry.
Also, for my purposes, listing FE13 rankings in with the extra Decimal here:
Chrom: 7.17
Robin/Avatar: 8.94
Lissa: 3.94
Frederick: 6.77
Sully: 6.83
Virion: 3.28
Stahl: 4.94
Vaike: 4.00
Miriel: 5.89
Sumia: 7.22
Kellam: 4.28
Lon'qu: 5.22
Donnel: 4.00
Ricken: 2.17
Maribelle: 3.61
Panne: 6.81
Gaius: 5.00
Cordelia: 7.33
Gregor: 4.39
Nowi: 5.28
Libra: 5.83
Tharja: 8.44
Anna: 6.78
Olivia: 2.72
Cherche: 5.88
Henry: 5.06
Say'ri: 5.67
Tiki: 7.89
Basilio: 4.81
Flavia: 4.93
Lucina: 7.67
Owain: 3.00
Inigo: 3.00
Brady: 1.75
Kjelle: 5.92
Cynthia: 6.25
Severa: 5.20
Gerome: 4.10
Morgan: 6.71
Yarne: 4.80
Laurent: 4.00
Noire: 3.33
Nah: 4.00
Also, one last thing:
I have moved the Top/Bottom 20 to the first page of the topic. From here on in, I will be updating that list rather than posting it repeatedly. I feel if people are curious about the Top/Bottom 20, it makes more sense to put in an easily accessible place rather than repeatedly update every session.[/list]
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Ok, might as well explain what's happening:
I'm listing everyone from the last session. Those in itallics are "Have less than 5 votes" so regardless of their rating, they won't get on Top/Bottom lists. With that said...
Mana Khemia 2:
AVERAGE STD DEV
Raze 6 1
Lily 7.3 0.45
Et 5.4 0.82
Yun 3.1 0.55
Puniyo 6.3 0.84
Ulrika 6.67 0.58
Chloe 5.67 0.58
Pepperoni 5.33 0.58
Enna 7.17 0.76
Goto 1.33 0.58
Standard Deviation of Raze Path: 1.57
Standard Deviation of Ulrika Path: 2.3
Standard Deviation of Entire (Ranked) Cast: 1.87
Cthulu Saves the World:
AVERAGE STD DEV
Cthulu 5.7 0.45
Umi 7.1 0.74
Sharpe 6 1.17
October 6 0.61
Paws 4.2 0.27
Dacre 3.2 1.3
Ember 2.3 1.15
Dem N/A N/A
October 7.05 0.76
Elona 5.25 0.5
Dark Umi 6.25 0.5
Molly 4.5 0.58
Sara N/A N/A
Standard Deviation of CSTW: 1.73
Standard Deviation of Cthulu's Angels: 1.12
Standard Deviation of Entire (Ranked) Cast: 1.53
If I screwed the above up in terms of who is what path or something, please speak up, I have not played either game.
THAT SAID, next game! Please Read Footnote at bottom before rating:
Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil:
Kain:
Rydia:
Tellah:
Edward-C:
Rosa:
Yang-C:
Palom-C:
Porom-C:
Cid-C:
Edge:
FuSoYa:
Edward-A:
Yang-A:
Palom-A:
Porom-A:
Cid-A:
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore:
Biggs:
Wedge:
Cecil-T:
Rosa-T:
Cid-T:
Kain-T:
Rydia-T:
Luca:
Calca:
Brina:
Yang-T:
Ursula:
Palom-T:
Leonora:
Porom-T:
Edward-T:
Harley:
Edge-T:
Gekkou:
Izayoi:
Tsukinowa:
Zangetsu:
Golbez:
FuSoYa-T:
And for those who find them outright important...
Mysidia Black Mage (Ceodore):
Mysidia White Mage (Ceodore):
Fabulian Monk #1:
Fabulian Monk #2:
Fabulian Monk #3:
Mysidia Black Mage (Porom):
Mysidia Black Mage (Porom):
Mysidian Elder:
Damcyan Soldier #1:
Damcyan Soldier #2:
Damcyan Soldier #3:
Ok, a quick explanation for how we're handling this:
First off, for FF4 proper, this is based on only 2D versions of the game. Yes, there are differences between versions like FF2us vs. FF4 Hard, but they're similar enough I feel it shouldn't cause too huge a discrepancy. Mostly just saying "don't vote on FF4DS" where the game itself plays significantly differently.
FF4TAY is self explanatory. For why a number of characters have a "T" on them? That's just for organization purposes. It makes the character easier to find and is basically labelling "This is their FF4TAY form." Mostly there to help remind people which version they're talking about, but not really important.
The ones that are important, though, are the C and A, which are used on FF4 itself. As we know, FF4 Advance brings back a number of temps as Permanent PCs and they get significant upgrades as a result. Personally, I don't think its fair we have a huge discrepancy in ratings because "I didn't play this version so this character sucked" type responses. on the otherhand, it was noted its not fair for those who didn't play one version to have to abstain from voting.
So best way to handle it is to rate those characters twice:
C = Classic. The character in their original form. None of the bonuses they get from the Advance version apply here.
A = Advance. This is those characters taking those boosts into account.
Naturally, people who played Advance versions are still capable of voting on classic versions, but the reverse isn't necessarily true. This is probably the best way to handle it, as complicated as I am making it sound <_<
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 8.5/10. Cecil is a solid PC throughout the game; he goes through some harder times late but even then is still the third best PC?
Kain: 3.5/10. Takes care of himself well enough while in the party, but Jump is vastly inferior to Cover for a tanky character and his damage isn't very good without it.
Rydia: 8/10. Is a bit weak early, but by the final dungeon she just firebombs everything.
Tellah: 6/10. Is decent when he is around.
Edward-C: 1/10 no
Rosa: 7.5/10. Solid healer with good damage late.
Yang-C: 3.5/10. A bit like Kain.
Palom-C: 3/10. Bad but has some black magic which is kinda cool?
Porom-C: 2.5/10.
Cid-C: 3.5/10. A bit like Kain as well.
Edge: 4/10. One point for situational status damage use, but he is atrocious in the final dungeon where he is most present.
FuSoYa: 5/10. A decent temp, even with the low MP reserves.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 7/10. A solid PC one he catches up, but it takes him some time to do so.
Biggs: DNR
Wedge: DNR
Cecil-T: 3/10. Slow and bad damage? Sounds like my kinda tank!
Rosa-T: 7.5/10. Is pretty much the same character as in the original.
Cid-T: 3/10. Yeah he's pretty shitty.
Kain-T: 8/10. Fuck the universe forever. Scar designed this game didn't he.
Rydia-T: 8/10. Suffers through less bad early game but is less completely broken in the final dungeon.
Luka: 4/10. Minerva makes her better than her master.
Calca: 2/10
Brina: 1.5/10
Yang-T: 8/10.
Ursula: 8/10. Behold, the power of fisting action.
Palom-T: 7/10 Puts up a respectable fight vs. Rydia, but is still worse.
Leonora: 2.5/10. This is divine punishment.
Porom-T: 7/10. Puts up a respectable fight vs. Rosa, but is still worse.
Edward-T: 6/10. The MT healing is very yummy, but the lack of buffs turns me off a bit for the primary support person.
Harley: 1/10. No.
Edge-T: 8/10. Pumped some iron in the last 17 years of manchildery
Gekkou: 4/10. Axe people are not what they call good in this game.
Izayoi: 2.5/10. Bad skillset.
Tsukinowa: 2.5/10. Made of wet tissue paper.
Zangetsu: 2/10. Why are these fuggin' terrible characters even in the game
Golbez: 8.5/10. MVP due to having hella HP and dragging you through hard shit.
FuSoYa-T: 6/10. Was definitely the weaker of the two in his chapter but kept the thing afloat well enough.
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: He is always around and never really bad. 7.5/10
Kain: Not really useful, but doesn't approach liability territory. 3.5/10
Rydia: Bad start but then she makes things go boom. 7.5/10
Tellah: Solid and around for parts where you need him. 6/10
Edward-C: lol. 1/10
Rosa: Heal all the dudes. 7.5/10
Yang-C: A bit like Kain. 3.5/10
Palom-C: Kind of eh. 3.5/10
Porom-C: Kind of bleh. 2.5/10
Cid-C: Kind of like Kain. 3.5/10
Edge: Spends time as a blood stain on the floor. 3/10
FuSoYa: Eh. 4/10
Edward-A: Still not very good. 1.5/10
Yang-A: A bit better than Kain with the bonuses? 4/10
Palom-A: Hey now he has spells. 5.5/10
Porom-A: Hey now she has spells. 5.5/10
Cid-A: A bit better than Kain with the bonuses? 4/10
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 9/10. Doesn't have a ton of damage lategame, but has everything else. He fits what you need from a game like FF4 perfectly, which is a lot of durability and some support.
Kain: 4.5/10. Kain's always competent, he's got a good stat spread and useful equips... till the very end. Fuck the Holy Lance. -2 if we're counting 4a, he's probably up there for worst option you can take in the final dungeon. His Avenger build is very good on damage and Cecil shouldn't use it (no cover!) which is his saving grace for the midgame.
Rydia: 8/10 .What others said. No real MP concerns either. She is kind of bad early on and struggles in a few boss fights, but it's not enough to ding her score.
Tellah: 6/10. He's kinda bad until he gets his spells back, but look the fuck out afterward. He is near total dead weight in Zot, but the earlier boss ass kicking is too good.
Edward-C: 0.5/10. Okay, no. He is Rydia without magic. That is beyond awful.
Rosa: 7/10. She's very useful for bosses and is surprisingly okay at physicals. Holy is nice offense but it's awfully late.
Yang-C: 5/10. He's pretty competent, high HP and can always hit an elemental weakness. Status claws are okay but Edge gets much more use out of them. The Hell Claw's status is kinda shitty, Fairie claw has a nice species weakness but lowers accuracy, which makes the speed boost a eh tradeoff. Catclaw is great but is awfully late unless you get lucky on a drop.
Palom-C: 5.5 Yay offense! Less yay is the HP.
Porom-C: 2.5/10. Really bad in practice, she's Rosa with 2/3ds the HP. You only really use healing on bosses in FF4 (and certain dangerous randoms, but that's after she leaves), and the ones during her arc tend to get Tellah'ed pretty badly. Most of her use comes from holy arrow physicals being fairly competent on Mt ordeals.
Cid-C: 3/10. Slow and less durable than you'd expect due to no shields. Gaia hammer is a fantastic weapon that Cid does not get to use for long enough; you get it at the very tail end of his last dungeon. Cid's something of a weird case on equips as well. In spite of using heavy armor, he gets no real use from them in the main game. He's best off running the Kenpo Ki/Headband for the stats, even ignoring the metallic cave.
Edge: 5/10. The fact that most of his use until the Moon relies on estortic strategies like Catclaws and hitting species weakness says it all about how bad Edge is at first otherwise He has the *same HP* as Cid did when he first joined and his defense is a liability until Genji Armor. That said he's got use, and his offense jumps ahead of Kain's in the final dungeon because the Holy Spear is such shit. -1 for 4a, he faces a lot of competition for spots.
FuSoYa: 5/10. Yeah, competent. Not much to say, skillset's awesome and you make full use of it (Reflect's great for Bahamut, the magic's good for the four fiends revisited). He's dead weight for the CPU core, but so it goes.
It's a game where everyone has some use outside of Edward.
Edward-A: 4/10. Awesome at randomslaying in the lunar ruins. Totally worthless on Zeromus thanks to the HP. He seriously breaks a couple of fights just due to his weapon hitting weakness on dragons/undead.
Yang-A: 8/10. Stupid durable, hits a ton of weaknesses. He can slap on a thunderclaw and hit weakness on machines, which lets him deal with evilmasks. This totally makes Cid obsolete, as that is the special effect of his weapon.
Palom-A: 7/10. His int's high enough to get away with spamming Quake. Black magic also does horrible things to the lunar ruins.
Porom-A: 2/10. I don't see a reason to use her. She's a little faster than Rosa and has better spirit, but that HP. No.
Cid-A: 1.5/10. *Awful*. Slowest PC in the game by a mile, his weapon's one trait is totally replaced by the Thunder claw. His aftergame gear is pretty junky too. He's durable which is worth something, but... yeah. I've used him and he's notably worse than the mighty Kain.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 8/10. Nice mix of skillset and status.
Biggs: N/A
Wedge: N/A
Cecil-T: 4/10. Bad for half the final chapter, inferior to Kain/Cedore/Golbez once he's unzombied. Cover's much less useful in this game as well.
Rosa-T: 8/10. See Ciatokins, but with a note that really need white magic in this game!
Cid-T: 1/10. In the running for worst non joke PC in the game. Holy shit. Axes are a terrible weapon class in this game, he's slower than fuck and he tops out at Dragoon armor.
Kain-T: 7.5/10. Ceo gets a few equips he doesn't and has a slightly better skillset. Otherwise, yeah. Very good PC in this game. I blame Scar.
Rydia-T: 8/10. Still kicks ass.
Luca: 3.5/10. She's done in by how awful axes are.
Calca: 0/10. Absolutely worthless .
Brina: 0/10. See above. You're better off killing them and letting Rydia/Luca get the EXP.
Yang-T: 8/10. Claw user.
Ursula: 8.5/10. Half a point for specializing more in speed than STR. Both her and Yang are seriously nuts.
Palom-T: See Porom.
Leonora: 3.5/10. White mage with Osmose is something, but her spells are way way *WAY* too late.
Porom-T: Pass, I didn't use either of the twins.
Edward-T: 5/10. Has uses! HP is still bad, so eh.
Harley: 0/10. I think she's worse than Edward in 4o. He at least was a warm body at his point. Harley isn't even that.
Edge-T: 8/10. :-*
Gekkou: 4/10. I think he's the best of the axe users in the game. Just... axes are shit and he's competing with Edge and Yang for armor.
Izayoi: 1/10. Awful.
Tsukinowa: 1/10. Get some HP.
Zangetsu: 3/10. He's Kain with ninja armor. It's.... um. Mostly bad, but he's better than the superscrub ninjas.
Golbez: 8.5/10. I find him kind of eh in the second half; no status magic's a downer on a black mage and his INT's only okay. Still, he carries your team at the start of the final arc and he's a durable black mage.
`FuSoYa-T: NA
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 7.5 - Overall good at his job and always around. Damage and Durability w/ Cover is pretty awesome.
Kain: 4 - Weird availability + lackluster version of Cecil's game and no Cover. +.5 for stopping spins.
Rydia: 8 - The ka-boom. That speed though... Considering lowering her half a point, but she feels slightly better than Cecil.
Tellah: 3 - Spells are good in FF4, too bad he can't use them more than like twice. Apparently I have to Osmose Cecil to use Tellah? Sounds like a point in Cecil's favor.
Edward-C: 2 - Way to be useless. Warm body points.
Rosa: 7 - Healbot with good availability.
Yang-C: 4 - More crucial warm body when he's around.
Palom-C: 3 - Magic! Availability sucks.
Porom-C: 4 - Healbot! Availability again.
Cid-C: 2 - Only because he's not an outright liability.
Edge: 6 - Finally, Speed! I need a long-term item boy. I guess image and stuff have uses too.
FuSoYa: 4 - Less limited version of Tellah?
Edward-A: 5 - Much better! Has a niche.
Yang-A: 5.5?
Palom-A: 6
Porom-A: 6.5
Cid-A: 2
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 7.5 His daddy's tricks but better! He's in a harder game, so it evens out?
Biggs: NA
Wedge: NA
Cecil-T: 3 Way to be OLD, dad.
Rosa-T: 6 JRPG women never get old, apparently.
Cid-T: 2 Still pretty terrible.
Kain-T: 8 Ugh. Physically painful.
Rydia-T: 8 Duking it out for top PC.
Luka: 5 - Not terrible, kinda feels like what Cid wanted to be. Very useful in Rydia's chapter if nothing else.
Calca: 1 - Liability.
Brina: 1 - Liability.
Yang-T: 7 - Speed and Power, who would have guessed that's a winning combo in a JRPG?
Ursula: 7.5 - Better than daddy.
Palom-T: 6.5 or 7 - Hey, you got useful! He's a 7 if you give him Doublecast. Unfortunately half your mages are fighting over Doublecast. He's the best option usually since he makes things dead...
Leonora: 3 - Interesting experiment. Will never be as good as your other mages since you shouldn't ever be grinding to level 99. Theoretically better than any other mage if you do, though? I guess that's worth a point.
Porom-T: 6 - Another excellent Healbot, and also has Slow, the brokenest spell. But there's a lot more healbots and she would have to have Doublecast to really be any better or worse than them.
Edward-T: 7 - What an upgrade! At the highest levels, he can be the best support character in the game. Is also notably the best PC in his chapter! (lol)
Harley: 1 - Another outright liability.
Edge-T: 8 - Competing for the best PC in the game. Speed and damage potential are ridiculous. Dual-wielding and the new ninjaskills are just cake.
Gekkou: 2
Izayoi: 1
Tsukinowa: 3 - high speed and dual-wielding means that if you squint and overlevel him, he could be a second Edge?
Zangetsu: 1
Golbez: 7.5 - Awesome mage, seriously drags your underlevelled PCs through their rough patches towards endgame.
FuSoYa-T: 5.5 Functional healbot and backup mage! Better than Leonora, though can't get Dualcast...
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Ceodore: 7.5 His daddy's tricks but better! He's in a harder game, so it evens out?
Shouldn't both better tricks and in a harder game mean that he's worth more for two reasons instead of evening out?
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Maybe a better way to put it is that his tricks are less dominating. Even though if he had the same things in FF4, he'd be better than Cecil.
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FF4 has fixed parties, ergo someone can be worse than someone else at everyone but still useful, ergo Edward is saved from the score he'd get in a game with party choice. Assuming FF2 US below.
Final Fantasy 4:
Cecil: 7/10. Hard to kill, consistent damage, random Cover hax.
Kain: 6/10. Can theoretically solo with Jump if things go to hell, can hide in the back row, but eh.
Rydia: 8/10. Nukes everything.
Tellah: 5/10. Does everything but with limited MP.
Edward-C: 2/10. Uhhh theoretically an item boy if the game was harder.
Rosa: 7/10. "Spam MT healing and attack" beats FF4 like it does most RPGs. Reasonably hard to kill thanks to back row.
Yang-C: 5/10. Exists.
Palom-C: 6/10. Blows everything up, back row helps his miserable durability not get punished.
Porom-C: 6/10. Frailer Rosa.
Cid-C: 5/10. Exists.
Edge: 3/10. Has to sit in the front row where he dies to both magic & physicals, fairly trashy skillset.
FuSoYa: 7/10. Rosa + Rydia in one? 'k.
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 7/10.
Kain: 4/10.
Rydia: 8/10.
Tellah: 4/10.
Edward-C: 3/10. Well, marginally better than any empty slot anyways.
Rosa: 7/10.
Yang-C: 4/10.
Palom-C: 3/10.
Porom-C: 4/10.
Cid-C: 3/10.
Edge: 6/10.
FuSoYa: 7/10.
Edward-A:
Yang-A:
Palom-A:
Porom-A:
Cid-A: And I haven't played any Advanced FFIV.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 6/10. Useful but never quite top 5 material.
Biggs: DNR
Wedge: DNR
Cecil-T: 3/10.
Rosa-T: 6/10
Cid-T: 2/10. Holy hell cid.
Kain-T: 6/10. About as good as ceo? Not as flexible but great raw stats.
Rydia-T: 8/10. Rydia is easily the most consistent character in all versions of FFIV. She kicks seven shades of ass at all times.
Luka: 5/10. Has her niches. I thought it was Lucca though?
Calca: 4/10.
Brina: 5/10. Well someone's gotta heal in that party.
Yang-T: 7/10.
Ursula: 7/10. Yang and Ursula are different... but in ways that even out to about as good. Which is really good.
Palom-T: 6/10.
Leonora: 4/10.
Porom-T: 7/10
Edward-T: 6/10.
Harley: 2/10.
Edge-T: 8/10. Basically I think every TAY party is Rydia, Edge, one of the three healers, and then you pick your favorites from Yang/Ursula/Kain/Ceo/Palom.
Gekkou: 4/10.
Izayoi: 3/10.
Tsukinowa: 2/10.
Zangetsu: 2/10.
Golbez: 8/10. Vital, but the HP being static so long is a definite downer so I tend not to prefer him for final party duties.
FuSoYa-T: 5/10. Not bad, but Golbez really outshines him.
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Edward-C: 3/10. Well, marginally better than any empty slot anyways.
You would be wrong. EXP focuses in FF4; you're better off letting Edward die and giving that EXP to Cecil/Rydia.
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I don't buy it. Experience gain at that point is trivial, and technically speaking only Rosa isn't 'wasting' experience. Except Rosa is barely in the party at this point. If you absolutely feel the need to grind DK cecil (... why? The only hard fight he ever faces his stats don't MATTER for), just wait for the Deathbringer or whatever. Having Ed around to be an extra target and toss potions is still marginally useful at times, and fights would be ever so slightly harder without him in that role. So, he gets points above "never use" (which I've always represented with a 2, sub-2 being reserved for 'negative' numbers where the character actively makes the game harder by existing).
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So you are giving a character credit for clogging up your party with terrible? Personally, I'd prefer to give credit to Kongol who is never forced!
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Well sure. The best Legend of Dragoon character solo is far weaker than the best LoD character + 2 buddies clogging the party up with badness. The goal isn't "highest average score!" Edward vs. an intentionally dead body will absorb some enemy hits and can throw some items. If you stick Kongol in your party, you have to remove someone better.
And see CK for super's argument, Rosa getting a piddly amount of extra XP is irrelevant (and I think she still gets either a huge XP boost or a set level after rescue anyway).
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I strongly disagree with giving people credit for being better than an empty party slot, since that's something that virtually every PC ever is (unless there's some weird loss condition attached to them or something). Also Edward is absolutely awful, as far as "uses items" PC goes he's amazingly bad at it, far worse than any other skillsetless FF4 PC due to far lower HP, and the fact that at critical HP you lose control of him. i.e. what the fuck is he doing at the same score as Cid, CK?
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Snowfire: Yang, Rydia, Kain, Rosa all rejoin at basically close to party levels. Everyone joins the party for the first time at fixed levels.
Edward has no value. Again, his functional HP is the worst in the game even before hide. If FF4 was hard during his arc, you'd have to put him in the back row and pray that he isn't OHKOed/knocked into hiding. Getting hit into hiding is *worse* than getting killed, since you can't just easily revive Edward at that point. Sing sucks, his physical is awful and even though DKC sections of FF4 are easy, it's still incredibly common to see randoms with decent physicals. Those randoms flatten Edward. Edge, who joins the team underleveled and with bad armor, is still more durable than Edward. He has status that matters, a physical that isn't *lol* and actually gains HP and has a decent speed score. Edge has some problems when he first joins, and he is still so much better than Edward that it isn't funny. Edge also gets better through catching up in levels. 4o Edward has no such saving grace.
I also disagree strongly re: Snowfire on Porom. White mages in FF4 are pretty shitty until Edge joins (When randoms start getting some serious firepower). Potions out of battle make for effective healing. Porom's marginally useful for Milon and argubly Baigan, but Tellah can do the white magic thing as well. Porom's main strength in game is twincast till Palom gets fire2 (So before Ordeals barring really strange rng luck) and having a competent physical for Ordeals.
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I strongly disagree with giving people credit for being better than an empty party slot, since that's something that virtually every PC ever is (unless there's some weird loss condition attached to them or something). Also Edward is absolutely awful, as far as "uses items" PC goes he's amazingly bad at it, far worse than any other skillsetless FF4 PC due to far lower HP, and the fact that at critical HP you lose control of him. i.e. what the fuck is he doing at the same score as Cid, CK?
Cid's absolutely better, but not enough so to reflect numerically more or less. Unless memory fails me, Ed is almost always around when there's three total party members (either Cecil/Tellah/Edward or Cecil/Yang/Edward, yes?) while Cid is almost always with four in the party (Cecil/Tellah/Yang/Cid), so the relative value of "distracts enemies and throws potions" is higher. Beyond that, while Cid is better at that job, that's not a very valuable job to start with. Just more valuable than "corpse", which is your only other option because it's FFIV. In fact, I'd actually respect the "corpse is more valuable because split experience" argument far more for cid because by that point you have Paladin Cecil, and short term difficulty for long term level advantage is actually possible on him (although I still don't agree with the argument).
Fundamentally I use how characters affect game difficulty as the first criteria for their in-game use. So 9s and 10s are reserved for characters who break the game, and 0s and 1s for characters who make the game harder. After that, you start with 2 for "should never be in party" and 8 as "should always be in party", and a sliding scale in between of how much characters add to your ability to complete the game. Since Edward isn't taking up a character slot that could be filled by someone better, he rates at least a 2, and while his contributions beyond that are minimal, they do exist, so 3. Cid is in about the same boat because, while he is better than Edward because HP, I'd also never willingly put him in my party if offered the option, so anything higher than a 3 seems dishonest, I guess.
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Not rating but :
Rydia's all show. She summons a dragon and does multitarget 9999 damage. Against randoms you're using her fucking whip to not consume MP, against worthwhile enemies she dies all the time and doesn't even have that much DPS over the boys.
Edge doesn't have unlimited Fumas in game. He takes a while to catch up. His physical attack and durability are a lot worse than Kain's/Cecil's. His speed barely gives him more turns. And seriously do you use his magic? Like a lot? Image can rarely save his ass and that's about all for him. Kain's superior.
Fuck those two, every playthrough I regret not killing them and giving all my exp to Rosa/Cecil/Kain.
Also TAY Cid should never have anything over 1. You guys should use this bastard endgame. He very well might be the slowest RPG character ever.
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Well sure. The best Legend of Dragoon character solo is far weaker than the best LoD character + 2 buddies clogging the party up with badness. The goal isn't "highest average score!" Edward vs. an intentionally dead body will absorb some enemy hits and can throw some items. If you stick Kongol in your party, you have to remove someone better.
And see CK for super's argument, Rosa getting a piddly amount of extra XP is irrelevant (and I think she still gets either a huge XP boost or a set level after rescue anyway).
FF4 characters always join at a fixed level the first time they join. If they leave the party after that, then all EXP gained by the party is also invisibly given to them in the background; this is how PCs appear to "keep up" later in the game. It also means for example that if you, say, kill off everyone else and grind Cecil to level 99 on Mt. Ordeals, then everyone will be level 99 when they rejoin (except for the people who were in the Ordeals party, so the twins, and the people who haven't initially joined yet, so Edge/Fusoya). This functionality is basically how the standard speedrun route beats Zeromus, by grinding Rosa and Fusoya off clockwork dragons using a Tornado/Raise loop or somesuch with the rest of the party dead, feeding all that focused EXP to not-currently-in-party Kain.
I'll post my actual rankings in a bit, that said.
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Rydia's all show. She summons a dragon and does multitarget 9999 damage. Against randoms you're using her fucking whip to not consume MP, against worthwhile enemies she dies all the time and doesn't even have that much DPS over the boys.
lrn2ether bro
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 7. Solid PC, probably not gamebest, never a liability in parts of the game that matter.
Kain: 6. Equal to or better than Cecil until the Excalibur comes into play, then never catches up again, but still is better than an empty slot.
Rydia: 7. I feel like she's a little overrated, but only a little. Probably has a solid argument for gamebest in the end, it's either her or Cecil, but she has a notably bad start - her offense is pretty much notably subpar for the most part before she learns Bio, and that's quite a while. (-ra spells are good against weaknesses, pretty bad otherwise, while most summons are somewhat badly overcosted and take too long to charge IMO).
Tellah: 5. Warm body, his MP pool is seriously unfortunate and his deficiencies begin to show badly in his second stint with the party. His score is notably higher for his first stint, where basic elements are still useful damage. Still, he gains points for completely trivializing most of the bosses he faces (and loses some of those points for being worthless against randoms).
Edward-C: 1. Itembot in a game that doesn't need an itembot.
Rosa: 8. Significantly better MP-less damage options than Rydia (in fact, certain equipment setups can get her to being competitive with Kain/pre-Excalibur Cecil), then add on the fact that FF4 white magic is mostly great. You'll notice I rate her higher than Cecil or Rydia but don't put her in the running for gamebest PC; my logic behind this is that she functions more as an enabler for the two of them rather than being gamebest in her own right. If you want to split hairs they could really all be 7.5 but I feel like Rydia is appreciably worse in a vacuum where Rosa is not next to her tossing heals and I'm trying to reflect that in the scores.
Yang-C: 6. Solid PC while he's around, durability is a little weird (lots of HP but his defense is kind of subpar at some points).
Palom-C: 5. Black mage who only exists in the pre-Bio phase, but is somewhat saved by Twin. He's mostly useless in randoms while you have him because he just doesn't have enough MP to sling spells that are worth a damn for a dungeon length.
Porom-C: 3. Significantly worse Rosa in a part of the game where item healing solidly outperforms anything she can ever do.
Cid-C: 2. Kain without speed. Not a good place.
Edge: 5. See Super's comments, basically.
Fusoya: 5, see Tellah, most of same issues apply.
Edward-A: 3. Stupid weapon, durability is still a severe liability.
Yang-A: 7. Might have a legitimate argument for gamebest PC in FF4A, but it's probably a bit of a longshot one. Clearly better than Kain for endgame use.
Palom-A: 6. Slightly worse Rydia.
Porom-A: 6. Still significantly worse Rosa, but she's available now.
Cid-A: 1. Same problems as before, now has more competition. Get the fuck out.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 8. Better than his dad where it matters (Speed), the places where his dad outperforms him are either irrelevant or easily covered by equipment.
Biggs: DNR
Wedge: DNR
Cecil-T: 5. Crippling availability issues aside, he's exactly the same as his original incarnation in a notably more difficult game where he has to compete with better PCs for both his formerly exclusive gear and his party slot.
Rosa-T: 7. Also basically the same as her original incarnation, but her physical has gotten relatively worse and her competition has improved notably.
Cid-T: 2. Basically the same as before.
Kain-T: 8. Even if you don't twink his HP/MP, legit argument for gamebest, his white magic selection is basically perfect for what he does, his damage is great, and his equipment selection is notably better than the original game. +1 if you do twink his HP/MP, which puts his durability into stupidly high levels.
Rydia-T: 6. Basically the same as before, in a game where her summons' charge times feel like they matter more *and* the really good summons are significantly more missable than they were before. Not a winning situation for her.
Luca: 5. Solid, never a liability, also never a standout. Occupies the same kind of place that Kain does in FF4o.
Calca: 1, novelty PC.
Brina: 1, novelty PC.
Yang-T: 7. Has actually improved since the previous game, but not by enough to raise him a point.
Ursula: 8. See Ceodore argument, this one is exactly the same.
Palom-T: 7. Yes I am ranking him above Rydia. Better intelligence, less FAQ-baity for his good damage, and IIRC he gets some of the money spells faster than Rydia does, plus MT Break feels significantly more useful in this game and he gets that earlier too, plus lategame possibility of Dualcast. Sorry, dualcast Meteor is better than anything Rydia will ever do. -0.5 without Dualcast, that said.
Leonora: 4. She is basically Fire Emblem Est logic applied to an FF game, and learns her spells hideously late even if she is in the running for Dualcast.
Porom-T: 8. Basically the same as before but with IIRC slightly improved durability. Is a potential user of Dualcast, and IMO probably the best one, in spite of what Palom gains from it, because *she* gains the ability to dual up MT Curaja->Holy or somesuch.
Edward-T: 6. Best raw healer in the game, at the expense of non-healing support. If you can get that from elsewhere in your party, great.
Harley: 2. Better than Calca/Brina, still terrible. She really wishes she had the dummied Blue Magic command that was likely intended for her.
Edge-T: 8. Improved so much from the original game it's not even funny, and now solid contender for gamebest.
Gekkou: 6. Better Luca. Easily the best of the bonus ninjas.
Izayoi: 3. She's helpful for Edge's chapter, but is pretty crappy beyond that.
Tsukinowa: 4. Notably worse Edge, helpful in Edge's chapter though.
Zangetsu: 2. Notably worse FF4o Kain (not TAY Kain). Yeaaah.
Golbez: 7. Tank mages are awesome. Misses some of the Black Magic versatility that Rydia/Palom get but he does get the money spells and he can do serviceable damage without MP. Carries an underleveled party if you didn't do challenge dungeons and such.
FuSoYa-T: DNR.
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Rydia's all show. She summons a dragon and does multitarget 9999 damage. Against randoms you're using her fucking whip to not consume MP, against worthwhile enemies she dies all the time and doesn't even have that much DPS over the boys.
lrn2ether bro
FF4 does not actually throw quite enough ethers at you to spam them with reckless abandon prior to very lategame when you have nothing else to spend money on, especially with its encounter rates.
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It's true that you can't spam them like mad, but (a) you do get quite a few of them and you should use them rather than hording them until endgame, (b) Osmose exists and most dungeons have something it works reasonably well on, and (c) most of her spell costs aren't that high and FF4 dungeons don't go that long between save points.
Basically the reason Rydia gets high scores is because her MP isn't that big a concern. Even if she does run out late in a dungeon and you don't/can't restore it, she has still crushed so many encounters to get to that point.
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It's true that you can't spam them like mad, but (a) you do get quite a few of them and you should use them rather than hording them until endgame, (b) Osmose exists and most dungeons have something it works reasonably well on, and (c) most of her spell costs aren't that high and FF4 dungeons don't go that long between save points.
Basically the reason Rydia gets high scores is because her MP isn't that big a concern. Even if she does run out late in a dungeon and you don't/can't restore it, she has still crushed so many encounters to get to that point.
a) Fair enough, yeah, I seem to remember getting around 40 of them on the approach to the final dungeon?
b) I personally have always found FF4 Osmose to be really terrible, easily the worst Osmose in the series, since it takes so long to charge that you generally have to deliberately drag battles out beyond their natural length by having the rest of the party defend if you want it to actually go off and hit something that has MP, and then it still only drains like enough for 1-2 spells per shot against anything I've ever used it on, so I'm not inclined to give Osmose much credit.
c) -ras are 15, Bio is 20, -gas are 30, basic summons are 30, actually good summons are 40+ against an MP pool which is barely over 200 when you first get her (if not under 200, depending on levels?) and doesn't really break 400 until late game. Save point frequency is a very valid point though.
To be perfectly fair I think Rydia's bigger issue is charge times rather than MP costs. She's still the overall best raw damage dealer in the group overall in spite of both concerns, though, I'll agree there. So I'm probably weighting her charge times and survivability problems heavier than you are.
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-Is charge times a thing in later versions of FF4 or something? Because in SNES and PSX I barely noticed them at all, outside Meteor, at least if you kept your wisdom/will up. TAY was the first version of the game I played where I found them at all significant. I didn't have any problem with Osmose either.
-Also, I want to make an illustration about the damage scale. Here's the figures circa Rubicant, according to the stat thread.
Cecil's Physical (Ogre Axe): 700
Kain's Jump (Blizzard Spear): 1250
Kain's Physical: 625
Rosa's Aim: 350
Rydia's level 2s: 750 (15 MP)
Rydia's Elemental Summons: 1100 MT (30 MP)
Rydia's Bio: 1500 (20 MP)
Rydia's Titan: 2000 MT (40 MP)
Edge's Blitz: 600
(Edge's physical isn't listed, it's a bit worse than Kain's IIRC... probably ~500?)
(Rydia has ~300 MP at this point.)
Basically, Rydia has 14+ shots of damage which is literally twice as good as what anyone else has. That's singletarget with Bio, never mind what she can do if she hits a weakness or you face lots of enemies at once for her to mop up. Even if she runs out of MP and you can't find anything to Osmose and you don't want to use ethers, she can physical for 300-400 less than what the fighters do. It'll take a lot of turns of this to make up for all the turns where she had 800-1000 more damage than the fighters, minimum... far more than is reasonable.
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Speaking as someone who had fairly recently played FF4a while between computers, Rydia's MP doesn't really matter that much (and I am pretty down with Osmose hate), nor do her charge times. I think FF4DS is the only one where they're actually onerous.
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FF4 charge times
These are datamined from the FF2US version 1.1 SNES ROM, I don't know if they're different in other game versions. I also don't know precisely what the numbers actually mean in practical terms.
(White Magic)
0 - Blink, Protect, Shell, Reflect, Scan, Curaja, Raise, Teleport, Sight
1 - Paralyze, Confuse, Slow, Haste, Berserk, Dispel, Cure, Cura, Curaga, Float
2 - Silence, Esuna, Arise
3 - Holy
4 - Mini
(Black Magic)
0 - Warp, Bio, Flare
1 - Poison, Fire, Blizzard, Thunder
2 - Tornado, Quake, Break, Stop
3 - Toad, Fira, Blizzara, Thundara, Sleep, Drain
4 - Firaga, Blizzaga, Thundaga
5 - Death, Osmose
6 - Pig
10 - Meteor
(Summon)
0 - Goblin, Bomb, Cockatrice, Mage
1 - Sylph, Asura
2 - Odin
3 - Chocobo, Mist Dragon, Leviathan, Bahamut
4 - Shiva, Ramuh, Ifrit
5 - Titan
Just for the sake of discussion. So yeah, Osmose is slow as balls.
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I also don't know precisely what the numbers actually mean in practical terms.
You say this, and yet you go on to antihype Osmose? <_< It's just 1 slower than the -ga spells, which I've certainly spammed enough to say with confidence their charge time is insignificant. Those numbers back up my experience that Meteor is noticeable on charge time, and the rest of the spells really aren't. According to Meeple, Int is a factor in charge times, so if you're using a magic-lowering whip or something it'll get worse.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not trying to say Osmose is wonderful, and I do agree it's one of the worst Osmoses in the series. It's still another bullet point in the argument of why Rydia's MP isn't that big a deal.
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 8/10. Dominatingly good fighter early, smash and never die. As time goes on he loses the smash, but still maintains good durability, cover, and auto-cover, and his damage at least avoids falling off a cliff unlike...
Kain: 4.5/10. Can do decent damage when hitting weaknesses, is durable, is kinda fast for however much that's worth (not much). Nosedives at the end but oh well.
Rydia: 8/10. Dominates the damage curve. Even has some decent utility. By around the Sealed Cave or so I feel she pulls past Cecil and never looks back, MVP from there on outside Zeromus.
Tellah: 6/10. Smash midgame bosses in the face. Even before he gets his spells I find him okay, but apparently I'm kinda forgiving of low MP types in this game.
Edward-C: 0.5/10. If you took white magic away from Porom (spoilers: the second worst PC in this game)... she'd still be better than Edward. Edward is iconically one of the worst RPG characters ever.
Rosa: 7/10. Kinda eh until she gets Curaga, then completely invaluable for lategame, MVP for Zeromus certainly. Rough start definitely keeps her out of the overall MVP discussion though.
Yang-C: 4/10. Kain with less damage.
Palom-C: 4/10. Pretty good offence, pretty bad durability. Unfortunately he leaves before black magic gets really good.
Porom-C: 2.5/10. Rosa with less HP, before Rosa gets good. At least she healbatteries.
Cid-C: 4.5/10. Always remember him being more effective than Yang, but in practice the gap probably isn't large.
Edge: 4/10. Not as bad as I used to think, certainly, but still has a rough start and then becomes a non-Cecil fighter at a point in the game where magic starts dominating.
FuSoYa: 6/10. Pretty solid I think? -agas and Reflect are really valuable in the boss fights he's in. MP's somewhat a concern but again not *that* big.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 7.5/10. HP needs some work, I wouldn't say he's -that- much like his daddy. That said he's still a solid fighter who gets several great white magic spells.
Biggs: Abstain
Wedge: Abstain
Cecil-T: 3/10. Either you use him when he's Adam-tier, or he's badly underlevelled and hence you're using a version of Cecil with bad HP in a game where speed is much more important.
Rosa-T: 7.5/10. White magic is so good in TAY. The game gives you way more reason to use those utility spells and the game throws badass YOu-NEED-GOOD-HEALING bosses at you for like 12 hours instead of like 4. She's a bit worse at non-healing than in FF4o (HP and physicals were both toned down a little, more meaningfully slower) but the shift in expectations helps her.
Cid-T: 1.5/10. Sucks. HP's too good for a 1 though.
Kain-T: 7.5/10. I'd like to buy the argument that Ceodore's better, but Kain's better HP makes that a pretty tough sell. They're probably about equal.
Rydia-T: 8/10. She gained weaknesses in her charge times actually mattering now. But on the other hand her status magic is a lot better, and she has a big level lead due to the way the endgame works, her summons are no longer out of the way to get, and she still brings MT devastatation like none other.
Luka: 4/10. Big Throw ends up with some decent use thanks to moon phases, still a bad choice for the final dungeon though. Fairly valuable in Rydia's chapter though.
Calca: 1.5/10. Better than his sister against randoms, worse against bosses.
Brina: 1.5/10. Both are pretty bad, though they own Harley.
Yang-T: 7/10. As far as fighters go, speed is better than power. Yang's still pretty damn good at what he does.
Ursula: 7.5/10. ALL THE SPEED.
Palom-T: 7/10. Lower level and no summons hurt versus Rydia (and the former erodes most of his on-paper advantage of gaining spells faster), but there's a decent case to use both and using at least one of the twins may mean an endgame spike with dualcast.
Leonora: 3.5/10. The red mage build is interesting, but ultimately not very good, just too weak on level/stats/getting some spells late. Better than the scrubs, though.
Porom-T: 6.5/10. Same situation as Palom vs. Rydia, replace "no summons" with "lower HP". Still good.
Edward-T: 6/10. A white mage trading most of the skillset for a better, if more costly, version of Curaja.
Harley: 0.5/10. Clearly whatever made Edward awful in FF4o is an STD.
Edge-T: 8/10. Ursula trading some speed for boomerangs and a skillset. He's got a pretty rough start in the gathering chapter, I found, but so good thereafter.
Gekkou: 4/10. Nothing really -wrong- with him, but he's not very inspiring. Which makes him the best ninja!
Izayoi: 3/10. Decent healing and instant death are cool, but the lacking damage isn't.
Tsukinowa: 2.5/10. Oh god that HP. Not... awful past that, he has decent speed/offence but still.
Zangetsu: 2/10. FF4o Kain if he were slower, in a game with better competition.
Golbez: 8.5/10. Sure, Golbez isn't in the top five for endgame PCs. Doesn't matter. By FAR the best PC in the gathering and the first section of the endgame stretch, monstrous HP, good damage, everything. He falls off but even at endgame he's still like a 5 or so, at worst. Jeigan points go far with me.
FuSoYa-T: 6/10. Eh whatever same score as FF4o.
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Not much to say/add here other than that Edward can use/throw knives or something, which I remember being quite useful from FF4 speed run streams. At one stage it was the General and grunt fights, Cecil and Yang got owned and then Edward came out of hide to just in time to end the fight with the knife thing. It did good damage compared to base physicals. I remember comments from the steam like "Edward's the man" "I told you Edward was the man" and such >_> I don't think he's the only one who can use knives but it was quite useful at the time. So yeah I can kind of see where CK is coming from on Edward I guess (well he used different reasons but yeah) :)
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Edward can't get access to the Dancing Knife without using a very specific glitch that only exists in the SNES version, so it's not really relevant to this. That also relies on a money glitch so you can afford the weapon- the Dancing Knife is 5000 gil, you don't have that kind of cash that early. (The Glitch can only be done before Mist burns down)
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For all that I'm not giving Edward any credit for it, that glitch run that turns Edward into something badass just sounds awesome. :)
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why do you guys love edward
you did play the after years right where he spent his entire life wanking over his 17-years-dead girlfriend
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why do you guys love edward
you did play the after years right where he spent his entire life wanking over his 17-years-dead girlfriend
Be fair. He was crying while he was jerking it.
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Ahhh, sorry. Didn't realize/absorb that the knife thing was also a glitch being utilized amidst general glitchiness in the glitch based speed run!~
I haven't played the After Years :) Just a FF4 casual I think~
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I don't actually like Edward as a character. I just kinda like the idea of breaking things with the iconically "worst PC ever". I kinda like Chuchu for similar reasons. They're just so... Pitiful it's endearing.
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Just gonna chime in on charge times but...
First off, Charge times do take Intellect into account so that could play a role in this regard. More importantly, though?
Generally speaking, a spell needs at level 3 charge time to be recognizable, and even then it's not really a huge charge time. The spell will resolve fast enough.
Rydia's Bio, don't forget, is a 0 Charge time, and that's her best spell overall for a while. Good cost efficient power and comes off fast, and non-Elemental, so it's safe. For MT, Mist Dragon is good if you can keep Rydia's HP up; a touch slow, but MT damage equal to Rydia's HP (...with random variance) is probably better than Bio on MT, and non-elemental as well. The 3 Elementals are likely useful compared to Aras in the same vain (technically stronger on ST, but the speed and cost makes them not-worth it).
Titan...is kind of questionable. It's slow, it's pricey, and shouldn't really be saved as kind of a trump card. It gets the job done, but people who use this is as Rydia's BnB form of offense before she gets Agas, Quake, etc. WILL have MP issues with her most likely. It's knowing to rely more on Bio and Mist Dragon as her primary offense (with Elemental Summons/Aras for weakness hitting) mid-game.
The only charge times that are really notable are things with a 5 or higher, which you'll note is a very few number of spells. I guess it's more notable if you aren't maximizing Rydia's Wisdom (which also leads to her damage being not good enough for a pure glass cannon to some), but that doesn't change the fact that she has set ups that say otherwise.
Also, Rosa's damage edge on Rydia w/ physicals is not that notable, at least to the point of "she can have MP-less damage set ups unlike Rydia!" Yes, Aim is an edge, but Rydia can use all the same stuff and generally hits consistent enough for it to matter.
ANd no, Rosa's Arrow damage isn't really that good unless she's hitting a weakness, and even then, Cecil makes a better Bow user if you really want to use that argument (Attack Mults and actual strength > Aim)
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Also, Rosa's damage edge on Rydia w/ physicals is not that notable, at least to the point of "she can have MP-less damage set ups unlike Rydia!" Yes, Aim is an edge, but Rydia can use all the same stuff and generally hits consistent enough for it to matter.
ANd no, Rosa's Arrow damage isn't really that good unless she's hitting a weakness, and even then, Cecil makes a better Bow user if you really want to use that argument (Attack Mults and actual strength > Aim)
I think the main salient point here is that Rosa's overall utility is hurt less by equipping all the physical boosting stuff on her, she still heals *enough* even with a full physical boosting build as long as you avoid the Minerva Bustier (even with MB, Curaja probably is sufficient). I've managed to get Rosa's attack mult competitive with Cecil's before with eccentric gear setups.
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Just a heads up that due to Comic-con, the update might be delayed a day or two. So expect an update on Sunday or Monday!
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 8.5/10. He gets progressively worse as the game goes on to some degree...but it's more a technical thing because Dark Knight is overpowered, and he's at his worst still a strong, reliable tank with some battery healing.
Kain: 4/10. Cecil without Cover, or his unique swords...or battery healing. He's not worthless, but he definitely doesn't feel very good either.
Rydia: 8.5/10. Blows up second half of the game well, we've covered her well.
Tellah: 6/10. He completely wrecks his first dungeon, kind of lackluster outside of extra MP for healing on Ordeals, then becomes your only healer for a stretch of the game. Limited MP hurts, but he can use Osmose on Cecil if need be.
Edward-C: 2/10. I think people are a tad harsh on him; he still status' enemies when he's in the game. THat said, he still has bad stats, crappy damage (he can use Bows to mitigate this I guess but his damage is never enough to care, so the status you get is better), and Auto Hide is the dumbest ability ever.
Rosa: 7/10. Rosa has this problem that, like in FF5, healing is lackluster in-battle until Curaga. She has a few status moves and works as a battery healer, but she's not as useful as you'd think your primary healer would be until she gets Curaga. That said, she still is kind of necessary at times, but not as effective at her role as Cecil and Rydia are at theirs.
Yang-C: 5/10. He can hit a few weaknesses here and there, and has status claws but yeah.
Palom-C: 6/10. Wrecks Ordeals, does good in Baron Underground, sucks against the bosses...yeah, I'll give him above average for the time he's in your party.
Porom-C: 3/10. See that rant about Rosa? Yeah, Porom has that issue but never exists long enough to actually make up for, combined with being made of paper. Palom can at least kill things fast, Porom is a case of "your healer is one of your first to die."
Cid-C: 4/10. He's a warm body that can take hits well, and Gaia Hammer is nice for the small stretch of the game he has it.
Edge: 5/10. He can pull clean up work after Rydia if need be, and a number of gimmick physical set ups. He's just very hit or miss at times, enough that I think average works.
FuSoYa: 6/10. Tellah in a late-game dungeon...with appropriate scaling...so yeah, same score. To be fair, Rydia and Rosa steal some of his fire, but he's likely to know things they won't, so he's still arguably better.
Edward-A: 4/10. Ok, he's good on specific enemies, kind of crappy on other enemies, and worthless on Zeromus. He is really good as an item boy because of the speed though!
Yang-A: 7/10. What happens when Yang gets a nice fat upgrade to a number of stats, especially speed, and gets a bonus factor of owning Behemoths for Free with Build Up. Also his species claws are useful!
Palom-A: 6/10. In the end, he's still a lesser Rydia, but having a 2nd cannon isn't necessarily a bad thing, outside of Zeromus.
Porom-A: 6/10. Comparable to Rosa; she's got better speed and insured to resist all 3 elements, freeing up a Protect Ring, but the significantly lower HP hurts.
Cid-A: 4/10. He's comparable to Kain. Slower, but way more HP and an actual attack stat, and takes hits better. Also he can murder machines well. Given I gave Kain a 4/10, I feel Cid should at least get the same score, though you could argue FF4a Kain loses a point specifically because he has competition for that 5th slot now.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
Ceodore: 8/10. Good equipment, and stats that aren't HP (which is mostly "low for a tank") on top of being a 2ndary White Magic user, most notably gets Blink and Haste which are extremely valuable, as well as a few other handy spells.
Biggs: DNR. Yeah, probably shouldn't have put them here.
Wedge: DNR. See above.
Cecil-T: 3/10. He's awful when he first joins, and by the time he's not awful, you've already gone through 80% of the game, and he'll be underleveled. Let's assume he does catch up however...why would you use him? He's slower than Ceodore and Kain, in a game where Speed is harder to boost than Strength no less, and Cover < Blink (let alone Haste) which both PCs learn. Add insult to injury, he's got a worse weapon set, not being able to use Lances, thus restricting your character usage (again, something Kain and Ceodore don't do.)
Rosa-T: 7.5/10. Pretty much her FF4 Self, only in a game that calls on her skillset notably more.
Cid-T: 2/10. Ok, he just sucks in this game.
Kain-T: 8/10. Stupid game and your Kain fanboyism! Anyway, variation of Ceodore, has higher HP, but misses a few White Magic spells (like Cuaraga), though still gets important ones. Jump is also there, but not convinced its useful, and Ceodore I think gets more Bands anyway, for all that many don't use them.
Rydia-T: 7.5/10. Her FF4 self but lacks summons for a large part of the game holding her back some. She can item cast healing rods at least and be a makeshift unlimited healer for earlier sections, which hurts the use of another character more so than help her own.
Luca: 4/10. Also bad, but unlike Cid, she's at least invaluable as a tank during Rydia's scenario, and Big Throw does let her get around Moon Phases.
Calca: 1.5/10. Well, he can do stupid good things SOMETIMES, other times he just sucks it up. On top of that, bad stats across the board unless you get some stupid good gear.
Brina: 2/10. Sometimes she'll heal your team, most of the time, she's Calca but defensive. Given Rydia's section has a Black Mage but not a white mage, I'll give her the extra half a point!
Yang-T: 7/10. Solid physical fighter.
Ursula: 7/10. Variation of her father, hard to say whose better. She's faster, he's more durable and hits harder, but she has female specifics which while not better than universal gear, do allow for more flexible equips (dropping down to Minerva is a less hit to Ursula than whatever Yang would drop down too.)
Palom-T: 7/10. Lesser Rydia, but still solid at his role.
Leonora: 2/10. Ok, she has healing, that's cool and all, and basic black magic! Oh look, there's 2 OTHER WHITE MAGES who are better than her at that role, and the offensive thing loses all purpose since Holy exists on both of them, which they learn before she gets any worthwhile Black Magic. She's not even that good in Palom's story seeing as Palom's generally just nuking everything.
Porom-T: 7/10. White Mage Porom, so pretty much same applies.
Edward-T: 5/10. Makes a good healer with some set ups, but he lacks all the perks White Mages have, so he has a lot of competition for slots.
Harley: 0.5/10. Has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I'd give her a 0/10, but at least she can throw items, and sort of does stuff during Edward's section, but good god what were they thinking with this character? It's like the FF3 Scholar without forcing the Hyne fight to make them pretend they're useful.
Edge-T: 7.5/10. Red Mage-like character, oddly enough, and pretty darn good at that.
Gekkou: 5/10. He's got durability, and I think Shuriken is good for bosses. It's not a lot, but I can see making some use of him.
Izayoi: 3/10. Meanwhile, she's just worse than Edge in everyway that matters, and by a significant amount.
Tsukinowa: 4/10. The one thing he has going for him is that MT Physical Band with Edge that was good for groups in Edge's story, that's about all he's good for.
Zangetsu: 3/10. Oh look, Ninja FF4 Kain!!! ...yeah no.
Golbez: 8.5/10. Overall MVP I'd say. He carries your team entirely through most of the final parts, and in the final dungeon, he's STILL got good damage because Black Magic, has a good physical so he can conserve MP if need be, and shows no real signs of lacking durability. He even has an amazing equipment draw, allowing both flexibility in your team, and letting him adapt to certain boss fights (Hi Omega, I hope you like a Thor's Hammer TO THE FACE!)
FuSoYa-T: 6/10. Worked for his role during Golbez's chapter, which is all you really need from him.
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Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
AVG STDDEV
Cecil: 7.78 0.75
Kain 4.44 0.95
Rydia 7.89 0.42
Tellah 5.22 1.09
Edward-C 1.44 0.85
Rosa 7.22 0.36
Yang-C 4.44 0.85
Palom-C 4.33 1.3
Porom-C 3.33 1.17
Cid-C 3.39 1.02
Edge 4.56 1.13
FuSoYa 5.44 1.13
Edward-A 3.50 1.32
Yang-A 6.30 1.57
Palom-A 6.10 0.55
Porom-A 5.20 1.82
Cid-A 2.50 1.41
Standard Deviation (Full Cast): 1.80
Standard Deviation (Classic only): 1.92
Standard Deviation (Advance Only): 1.65
If it's not clear, yes, Cecil, Rydia, etc. are counted for all Standard Deviations. IOWs, the only difference between Classic vs. Advance is one uses Edward-C and the other uses Edward-A. Full Cast includes everyone, even if it means Edward twice.
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:
AVG STDDEV
Ceodore: 7.43 0.73
Biggs: N/A
Wedge: N/A
Cecil-T: 3.43 0.79
Rosa-T: 7.07 0.79
Cid-T: 1.93 0.61
Kain-T: 7.57 0.73
Rydia-T: 7.64 0.75
Luca: 4.36 0.63
Calca: 1.57 1.24
Brina: 1.71 1.58
Yang-T: 7.29 0.49
Ursula: 7.64 0.56
Palom-T: 6.79 0.4
Leonora: 3.21 0.76
Porom-T: 6.92 0.66
Edward-T: 5.86 0.69
Harley: 1.00 0.76
Edge-T: 7.93 0.19
Gekkou: 4.14 1.21
Izayoi: 2.36 0.94
Tsukinowa: 2.71 1.07
Zangetsu: 2.14 0.69
Golbez: 8.07 0.61
FuSoYa-T: 5.7 2.36
If it's not obvious, all the nameless generic temps failed to get any ratings...at all...and I don't think anyone really cares either!
Best Rating of this Session: Golbez w/ 8.07. I suppose you could argue he should be "Theodore 'Golbez' Harvey" but shh!
Lowest Rating of this Session: Harley w/ 1.00. Congratulations Edward-C, you aren't the worst character in the session!
This session, we'll do something a little smaller, because...uhh...stuff. One is something that should have been done a while back, another is something I sort of picked out of a hat when discussing it with someone else and...oh screw it...
Earthbound:
Ness:
Paula:
Jeff:
Poo:
AND FOR FUN!!!
Pokey:
King:
Pickey:
Buzz Buzz:
Bubble Monkey:
Dungeon Man:
Flying Man:
(yeah, feel free to skip all of those if you want, I'm just being silly)
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Edge:
Reimi:
Faize:
Lymle:
Bacchus:
Meracle:
Myuria:
Sarah:
Arumat:
As usual, if I made a mistake, feel free to note it, and I will correct it.
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I might revise the numbers a bit later.
Ness: 7/10. He's very inflated in the DL since there he's taken at his best, when for the majority of the actual game he's not overpowering; he's just a tanky healer who doesn't really have the PP to pull out his big damage with any frequency before Magicant. Without the Magicant boost, I'd probably rate him 6/10.
Paula: 6/10. She's very DEFLATED in the DL thanks to Ness' average-warping at endgame. Durability is a very real issue, though, and late game her damage does fall behind. She does have the most spammable MT of any of the cast pre-Magicant, this is worth something.
Jeff: 6/10. He's poor to mediocre until Big Bottle Rockets come into play, then one of your best damage-dealers against bosses for most of the pre-Magicant game. Late-game he falls off a bit again, but he would probably be better than Ness if not for the Magicant boost just on the strength of Multi Bottle Rockets.
Poo: 5/10. He's a worse Ness at base and doesn't get the Magicant boost. He's not an active drag on the team though, so shrug.
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Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Edge: 7/10. Edge has a bit of a slow start, and running into BEES on Aeos is kind of a very real threat. Blacksmithing is one of the better crafting types, though, and he's your only meleer for the first third or so of the game. He's more useful about early through midgame, starts to fall off around endgame--his big damage specials in maingame being a bit slow on the draw and low-impact don't help.
Reimi: 6.5/10. Reimi feels...overrated to me. She's decent at clearing out randoms, yes, but that assumes you give them enough decoys to actually let her specials go off. The second she's in a corner, she has trouble. And no, the dodge-shot is not useful. I suppose in theory I should be taking advantage of Cooking, but that's...eeehhh. She has problems with a lack of quickdraw abilities and the fact that if she gets cornered, she's dead.
Faize: 5.5/10. Faize is...kind of mediocre, and tries to play at being a mage with a few physical tricks--kind of like Richard from ToGf, only...well, let's just say Faize really could've used a few techniques alongside his rather piddly magic offerings. At least he gets Ice Needles.
Lymle: 4.5/10. My pick for LVP in this game. Her crafting skill is pointless, she's a mage who doesn't get the good (Ice/Lightning) spells, and feels more than a bit frustrating to try and work with. She -can- hit large areas at range but that's covered better by two others. Her mobility and casting speed don't help either.
Bacchus: 9/10. Even without his combat worth and the fact that he makes Sahariel about four times easier off of Galvanic Shock, I'd still rate him highly. Why? Mining. He is the only reason you can get a majority of the crafting materials that you do in SO4, outside of chests. Without him, you're stuck hoping for chests and drops. The fact that he makes a more durable alternative to Reimi (and then Emergency Repairs come En-II) make me rank him even higher than that.
Meracle: 7/10. Subjectively, I'd rate her a 8/10, but objectively I'll have to drop her a point. Meracle's a fighter who trades durability and range for comboability and damage--this means that if you can take advantage of the Blindside mechanics, she outdoes Edge in particular, but is rather terrible in the hands of the AI. Her shitty MP pool doesn't help either--she really needs a player behind her to make her shine.
Myuria: 8.5/10. For raw combat ability, Myuria's one of the two best PCs in the game in my opinion. She gets the best elemental options for combat use (Ice and Lightning spells tend to outdo the rest in a fight, with the former being damaging, fast, and with a fatal status, and the latter being great lockdown), and backs that up with both some amazing magic ability and the usability as a secondary healer. Basically what Lymle wishes she was.
Sarah: 8/10. Synthesis is pretty awesome once you start playing around with it. Synthesis aside, Sarah has the other benefit of being the best healer. I don't -like- healers often, but you're going to need high-octane healing in the lategame, and Sarah's the one to provide it, being the only one to get the second-tier healing spells.
Arumat: 8/10. For in-game use, I found Arumat amazing. He comes bundled with a strong weapon, wide-area attacks that are great against randoms -and- Kokabiel, and a ranged option. His magic blows (though a Laser Weapon can make it do respectable damage at the time you can get it), but that's not much of a complaint. The only real complaint I can give for him is that he joins very late in the game--he's basically better than Edge in everything he does outside of crafting--and Smithing is so dependent on Bacchus joining that I don't really credit it that much in Edge's favor. And, I guess, his weapon upgrades are a pain in the ass to forge because they require Star Sapphires. Goddamned Star Sapphires.
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Hmm, wouldn't say Artistry is completely useless/not worth anything myself/personally, I mean I thought so but then when I played the PS3 version and actually bothered with the Item Creation system at all, I did find Artistry nice for getting Enhance and stuff from really early, nice for boss battles at least :)
Lym doesn't get Fast Cast?, I forgot. Well I think she does >_>
That's interesting though, taking into account non combat skills for rating/ranking, never really thought of that~
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Lymle does get Fast Cast, but PC base cast times vary considerably and Lymle's are the worst, to the point where Fast Cast Lymle is about equal to non-Fast Cast Edge or Arumat. To be fair, post-Fast Cast she is a notably faster caster than Sarah, but the latter gets revival spells and better healing spells so enjoys a considerable advantage unless you give Lymle Fairy Star.
I'll toss my ratings up in a bit.
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Earthbound
Ness: 8/10. Don't underrate the value of tanky healers, especially in a game where both status and high-grade offense are rather prominent. Ness isn't -overpowered- for most of the game, but he's clearly the best PC you have, sporting the best free ST physical offense for a long time (for whatever that's worth, though resource conservation IS a serious concern until you get access to Poo's PP restoration items), full MT offense in a pinch, game-best durability and quality healing. The endgame boost makes him carry the party on his back to boot.
Paula: 6.5/10. Yeah, Paula isn't a bad PC in-game at all. For most of the game, she's your premier randombuster, running off game-best PP until Magicant and oodles of elemental manipulation and crowd control, giving her effectively good offense. The tissue paper durability is a serious issue, but she also has game-best speed until the lategame (Poo only becomes fast once he grabs the Cloak of Kings) and EB enemies are slow. Her damage TANKS endgame because of Psi Rockin' and Starstorm Omega, but by then she's served her purpose.
Jeff: 5.5/10. Jeff's just trashy if you don't know how to get his items (bad durability and bad speed purely running off EB base physicals make you -worthless- for everything) and you constantly have to micromanage his inventory, but Bottle Rockets and later Multi Bottle Rockets are positively nuts for offense (look at the typical boss HP stats on EB and compare them to his offense). He melts most bosses like nothing else and at least bazookas hand him some free crowd control, which can't be underemphasized in this game.
Poo: 4.5/10. On paper, Poo is great! Healing! Good stats! MT offense! Elemental damage! ... holy shit he has NO EQUIPMENT DRAW and fucking sucks without PP (as in offensively worse than Paula without PP) - oh, and his healing skillset is inferior to Ness'. And his resources blow. It could be worse, since he shows up and then your stock of PP healing suddenly begins to -exist- (because of him, even!). Still, he definitely feels like the most problematic PC in spite of both Paula and Jeff having more fundamental flaws.
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Earthbound
Ness: 8/10. Don't underrate the value of tanky healers, especially in a game where both status and high-grade offense are rather prominent. Ness isn't -overpowered- for most of the game, but he's clearly the best PC you have, sporting the best free ST physical offense for a long time (for whatever that's worth, though resource conservation IS a serious concern until you get access to Poo's PP restoration items), full MT offense in a pinch, game-best durability and quality healing. The endgame boost makes him carry the party on his back to boot.
Paula: 6.5/10. Yeah, Paula isn't a bad PC in-game at all. For most of the game, she's your premier randombuster, running off game-best PP until Magicant and oodles of elemental manipulation and crowd control, giving her effectively good offense. The tissue paper durability is a serious issue, but she also has second-best speed and EB enemies are slow. Her damage TANKS endgame because of Psi Rockin' and Starstorm Omega, but by then she's served her purpose.
Jeff: 5.5/10. Jeff's kinda trashy if you don't know how to get his items and you constantly have to micromanage his inventory, but Bottle Rockets and later Multi Bottle Rockets are positively nuts for offense (look at the typical boss HP stats on EB and compare them to his offense). He melts most bosses like nothing else and at least bazookas hand him some free crowd control, which can't be underemphasized in this game.
Poo: 4.5/10. On paper, Poo is great! Healing! Good stats! MT offense! ... holy shit he has NO EQUIPMENT DRAW and fucking sucks without PP - oh, and his healing skillset is inferior to Ness'. And his resources blow. It could be worse, since he shows up and then your stock of PP healing suddenly begins to -exist- (because of him, even!). Still, he definitely feels like the most problematic PC in spite of both Paula and Jeff having more fundamental flaws.
Sure, this works for me.
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Earthbound:
Ness: 9/10 - Feels like the cast best PC the entire way through, spiking to straight up nutso at endgame. Ness does basically everything and does it well.
Paula: 5/10 - Yeah, she has the psi attacks that clear randoms for most of the game, but I still find she runs out too fast and her durability is....problematic, to say the least.
Jeff: 7/10. I had the strategy guide, so getting Jeff's stuff wasn't a problem. Alot of his stuff was pretty useful, too. And then he turns bosses into slag with bottle rockets.
Poo: 3/10. Exists to be a healing battery and that's about it. Can't compete with Paula vs randoms, Jeff vs bosses, or Ness vs anything. Sure, starstorm is cool! If you're willing to spend your healing reserve on overpriced MT damage. It's a nice option to have, sure, but not one I found useful all that often.
King: 4/10 - Earlygame temp that is actually very useful for keeping alive and getting you going. Good dog, best friend~
Other Temps - Meeple/10.
Pokey - Super/10
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:( I'm pokey? Foul.
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It's less that you're Pokey, and more that Pokey is you.
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Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Played this game twice in the last year so get ready for lots of analysis! Unlike Nama I don't give credit for out-of-battle/IC/etc. stuff. All I have to say on that front is that Resurrection Units are insanely good so Compounding would get a bonus from me if I did. I'm also scoring entirely on the maingame. More emphasis on the aftergame would hurt Edge, Faize, and Lymle, but help Meracle, Myuria, and Sarah, I think. Possibly Reimi and Bacchus as well.
Edge: 4/10. This game is not a game which is terribly kind to melee fighters. And even if it were, Edge isn't really a remarkably good one anyway. "Tanky healier" just isn't worth it when eventually he's just too bad at the job. Still, not terrible or anything;in particular I find the game doesn't exploit his weaknesses early while he's forced, and he's the best healer for quite a while (durability and casting speed puts him over pre-Fairy Healing Lymle).
Reimi: 7/10. I go back and forth on Reimi. On paper she's not all that great, as the DL stat topic shows. In practice... game seems to want her to be good. Her ranged offence I tend to find slightly better than Bacchus' and benefits relatively more from Berserk, and she gets a lot more elemental weaopns than anyone else... memorably fire for Lemuris, dark for Kokabiel, and holy for endgame. So she ends up with quite high damage output in general, and is nicely mobile.
Faize: 4/10. He gets some good spells, but bad Int, and no healing. Ice Needles in particular is good enough to keep him in the party, especially on Cardianon where many things are weak to it. Fairly speedy too. But as time goes on you get more and more superior sources of ranged damage, and on people who have better skillsets.
Lymle: 4/10. I dunno. Offensively she has the best raw damage of the mages with the Cerberus spells, but it's tied to one element (although only half-tied for Hound Grenade), and due to casting times she's horrible at other attack magic (such as the normally great Lightning Blast). At healing, at first she's pretty great since she'll pick up Fairy Healing in Cardianon, and nobody else has that until you're done with Roak. But that's her ceiling; once Sarah shows up and Myuria gets Fairy Healing, she loses this niche, and then falls behind due to lack of revival.
Bacchus: 8/10. The cast MVP. Once he gets Black Hole Sphere he becomes probably the best at fighting randoms, stunning damn near the full field and filling up his rush gauge more or less for free. Even aside from that he has solid ranged options (Termination, Force Breaker, etc.), and Galvanic Shock is top-tier melee damage when lightning isn't resisted (and can even stun bosses). Does everything on offence. On defence? Even if you're running a team built around healing and survival, guess what, you're gonna want him, because he has appreciably more HP than everyone else and all SO4 healing is MHP-based, plus he gets Emergency Healing. The only bad things I can say about him is that he's kinda slow and some of his moves are a bit awkward.
Meracle: 3.5/10. This game is not a game which is terribly kind to melee fighters. And sadly for Meracle, that's all she does. With no AoE or range until the aftergame, and the lowest HP of the melee types, all she can do is unload melee damage to distracted or blindsided enemies... and she isn't even as good at that as Bacchus' Galvanic Shock! More damaging than Edge on the non-elemental melee fighter front I guess. And quite good at ripping out chunks of the wind-weak Armaros Manifest, who is one of the game's hardest bosses, so while I think she's the LVP she's not bad. Also she deserves a shout-out for aftergame skills fixing a number of her flaws.
Myuria: 7.5/10. So if you took Lymle and Faize, and created a PC with literally the best aspects of each, you'd have Myuria. Ice and lightning are the two best elements of attack magic (dark sucks though) and she gets both, off good casting speed. At first it feels like she pays for this skill at attack magic by being inferior at healing, but then she picks up Fairy Healing (surpassing Lymle) and Fast Cast (which Sarah misses). Even gets revival, and is probably the best candidate for Fairy Star, though both of those mostly matter for the aftergame. So yeah, good ranged cannon PC who is also a good healer.
Sarah: 6/10. She's boring, but fairly effective. Kinda crappy offensively though her Lightning Blast is decent enough. Good healer, although no Fast Cast limits her a bit. Still, she's a considerably better healer than Lymle is, and I often find having two healers is extremely valuable in this game. (Since if the enemies pressure one, the other can bail her out.)
Arumat: 6.5/10. This game is not a game which is terribly kind to melee fighters... is what I would say, but Arumat's a fair bit better, in no small part because he's secretly a ranged PC. Nether Strike's really great, better even than what Reimi does normally... though it is tied to an element which hurts. His attack magic is also better than you'd think: Laser Weapon can give it damage, but even if it's doing a pittance it is ludcrously fast and interrupts enemies. He didn't even need this, his raw melee game probably beats Edge's and Meracle's because he gets so much more AoE stuff and he has better HP.
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Actually, I found that you don't get the last component for her dark weapon until right -after- Kokabiel. Dark Talisman and its recipe are found on Nox Obscurus, frustratingly enough--unless there's a hidden one that I wasn't aware of before then.
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Are you talking Reimi here? This may be a difference between X-Box and PS3 version. My quick browsing around looks like the biggest throttle on the only Dark bow I could find (Spirit Bow "Darkstriker") seems to be either Rank 9 Smithing or Darkness Gems if I am reading guides right.
Item Creation: Smithery Lv. 9
Carbon Fiber x4
All-Purpose Ceramic x3
Aramid Fiber x2
Darkness Gem x6
The other 3 seem to be basic crafting mats. I counted 3 or so Darkness Gems in chests with Find function in a guide and saw 3 enemies that drop them, looked like 2 at a glance that are before this Kokabiel boss.
Would just note that specifics of differences between the two versions seem to be pretty poorly documented online, but you may see some difference based on X-Box 360 vs PS3 especially when discussing the value of item creation.
Edit - That is based on the comments in Gamefaqs FAQ for SO4 International below.
1.3. Q: Whats the difference between the International and the 360 version ?
A: The international version of Star Ocean The Last hope is on only 1 blu-ray disc, which makes all of the post game content much easier since you don't need to be swapping discs every few minutes. It also includes Japanese voice overs, and anime portraits. A couple of extra treasure chests were added, and some of the final ones have been changed a bit. The Synthing priorities have also been tweaked a bit so it's harder to exploit and easily create great items. Apart from the added Japanese voices, everything else is pretty minor and more likely to not be noticed at all while playing.
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For the record, I can attest for certain that I've had that bow for Kokabiel and I certainly didn't do any crazy grinding to get it. And yeah, I know a bunch of IC stuff was rebalanced between the versions, so it wouldn't stun me if the Darkstriker was made a bit harder to get (because it was really good for an EN II item)... though somewhat annoyingly this would make the bow kinda trashy because Nox Obscurus is infested with enemies who resist darkness and are weak to holy, so you might as well just use the (only slightly weaker) endgame storebought holy bow.
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Version differences ahoy, then. Reimi's better on 360 than she is on PS3, so on. Mystery solved, I suppose.
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Thanks for the input re casting times and stuff :)
My rankings. For 360 version. Most notably I do take into account things like Savage Sparrow juggles/rush hax, effective Blindside utilization with those characters with the best Blindsides (Meracle, Aramut) , Beat S perks like charge Blindside while attacking, Exceed Chain combos, infinite juggle combos with X-Claw, Dragon Roar, stuff like that. Critical rate also holds more value to me especially since you can also juggle the likes of even a super boss with no guard status with crits neutralizing/negating No Guard. Range/crowd control/status don't matter as much to me. I mean, they do matter but I just feel fighting lots of randoms just gets you the money skills for bosses quicker (especially if you take advantage of Bonus board/Cooking EXP+ boost factors/etc) This was more apparent to me on the PS3 version where I took my time with the game and had to fight lots of randoms to fill out monster jewel data/towards getting titles/trophies/etc though.
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Edge: 7/10
Reimi: 8/10
Faize: 5/10
Lymle: 5.5/10
Bacchus: 8/10
Meracle: 8/10
Myuria: 6.5/10
Sarah: 6.5/10
Arumat: 8/10
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Edge: 5/10
Reimi: 7.5/10
Faize: 4/10
Lymle: 4/10
Bacchus: 8/10
Meracle: 3/10
Myuria: 7.5/10
Sarah: 6/10
Arumat: 6/10
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Is this post being done late as an excuse to remind you the update is on this Saturday? Oh absolutely!
Though, before I rate, someone know the surnames for the SO4 cast? Just like to have them for the final ratings. yeah, I could look them up myself, but laziness...which is no excuse...but shh!
Earthbound:
Ness: 8/10. Tanky Healer. PSI Rocking is a good trump card if things are starting to go downhill, but shouldn't be used as anything other than that.
Paula: 6.5/10. The DL makes her look awful, bu in-game she's perfectly adequate. PSI Fire hits a surprising number of weaknesses and enemies usually come in line formations, PSI Freeze is cheap effective ST damage that can freeze, and PSI Shield insures she is useful in the final dungeon where Starstorm is spammed. Why not higher? Well, HP is still a liability, her speed is a little lower than I'd like, and there are cases where she's offensively anemic due to enemy resists.
Jeff: 5/10. Kind of meh before the Heavy Bazooka on randoms, though he's great on Bosses once Big Bottle Rockets show up, but bosses only account for a handful of fights in the game.
Poo: 4/10. Yeah, it's been said; he seems a lot better on paper than he really is. Joins late and underleveled, always behind on PSI Offensive magic until he gets Starstorm, which is kind of expensive to spam, healing is worse than Ness', etc. He was clearly meant to be the game's Red Mage of sorts, but he didn't work out.
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Edge: 5/10. Felt utterly average, back up heal bot too.
Reimi: 7/10. Good safe damage.
Faize: 3.5/10. He's fine at first, but his weaknesses really stood out to me on Roak, which is a long stretch of the game.
Lymle: 4.5/10. She's ok, but...just ok...
Bacchus: 8/10. Explosions.
Meracle: 4/10. Edge-lite.
Myuria: 6/10. That's more like it for mages!
Sarah: 5/10. That's less like it!
Arumat: 7/10. Edge++
-
Edge Maverick
Reimi Saionji
Faize Sheifa Beleth
Lymle Lemuri Phi
Bacchus D-79
Meracle Chamlotte
Myuria Tionysus
Sarah Jerand
Arumat P. Thanatos
-
I wonder what the P. stands for?
Also... really? His surname is "Thanatos"?
-
Really. It is a thing.
(Also post ratings, Djinn!)
-
I could have -sworn- I'd posted these already... oh well, quickpostoflazy
Ness - 8
Paula - 7
Jeff - 6
Poo - 4
Edge - 5.5
Reimi - 7.5
Faize - 5
Lymle - 4.5
Bacchus - 8.5
Meracle - 5
Myuria - 7.5
Serah - 7
Arumat - 6
-
:(
*Edits DJ Djinn's post back* ~
-
Earthbound:
AVG STDEVA
Ness 8 0.63
Paula 6.25 0.69
Jeff 5.83 0.68
Poo 4.17 0.68
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.57
Star Ocean 4:
AVG STDEVA
Edge Maverick: 5.58 1.2
Reimi Saionji: 7.25 0.52
Faize Sheifa Beleth: 4.5 0.77
Lymle Lemuri Phi: 4.5 0.55
Bacchus D-79: 8.25 0.42
Meracle Chamlotte: 5.08 2.01
Myuria Tionysus: 7.25 0.88
Sarah Jerand: 6.42 1.02
Arumat P. Thanatos: 6.92 0.92
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.34
Highest Rating of this Session: Bacchus with 8.25
Lowest Rating of this Session: Poo w/ 4.17
So I was looking at the list and made a drastic discovery:
WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY TALES GAMES BESIDES TALES OF THE ABYSS!
...so let's fix that to some extent...BY RATING SHADOW HEARTS 3!!!
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny:
Shania:
Natan:
Frank:
Mao:
Hilda:
Ricardo:
Tales of Phantasia:
Cress:
Chester:
Mint:
Claus:
Arche:
Suzu:
Tales of Graces F:
Asbel:
Sophie:
Cheria:
Hubert:
Malik:
Pascal:
Richard:
...what? I didn't say we weren't going to rate any Tales this session!
On a less silly note, I have not played Tales of Graces, and thus grabbed these names from an FAQ, so if there is any mistake here, be it a legitimate omission (like a notable Temp or something) or a character that shouldn't be on the list, please tell me and I'll correct it.
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny: 5. Feels worth using but not by enough to matter.
Shania: 8. Generally excels at stuff. Buffing, damage, healing... Never got her broken endgame stuff.
Natan: 6. Don't really care about him. Edit: Apparently that was a mistake?
Frank: 3. Again don't care. Frank sucks.
Mao: 6.5. Used Mao. DIdn't care toooo much. But apparently I should have!
Hilda: 8. Good cannon. Gets NICE healing skills. Late. But man did that save my butt.
Ricardo: 5/10. Passable buff.
Tales of Phantasia:
Cress: 8/10. Cress is the all-important front lineman.
Chester: 2/10. Just there. Never used him much.
Mint: 6/10. Keeps you alive but... not generally good enough at it to justify a high score? Has to be supplemented by items a *lot* in fights that matter.
Claus: 6/10. Maxwell is awesome, but takes some time to get...
Arche: 7/10. Casts the spells that makes the foes fall down. Basically the perfect example of a damage mage.
Suzu: Never got her as a PC.
Tales of Graces F:
Asbel: 6/10. He does damage nicely and can lock down multiple foes (INFERNAL TORRENT!)
Sophie: 7/10. Does healing and fighting front line very competently. Nice package. Loses a point for availability at some points.
Cheria: 7/10. Does healing a little better than Sophie, does everything else worse. Well her magic damage spam isn't toooooo bad, and tends to hit weakness on like everything come endgame.
Hubert: 4/10. Too frail as a fighter of his type for my liking.
Malik: 5/10. Competent ranged damage mage.
Pascal: 3/10. I never 'got' her to work for me very well. And the CPU isn't badass enough with her.
Richard: 3/10. Didn't see much point to him as a PC. Mostly thinking the F version. ToGo Richard is probably a 4/10 by himself.
-
Stellars > you in SH3. Unless you're a Harmonixer.
Johnny: 6/10, passable fighter-mage who gets mostly irrelevant SP-draining fighter stuff late. +1 for camera.
Shania: 9/10, doesn't feel as raw broken as Yuri, but that's a quibbly point (low 9 rather than a high 9).
Natan: 3/10. Fighter in a game not friendly to fighters.
Frank: 3/10. Fighter in a game not friendly to fighters.
Mao: 5/10. Fighter-mage when you could use a full-time mage instead. EDIT: I didn't use her much but see Elf, apparently her magic stat is better than I thought, so sure, +1.
Hilda: 7/10. Mage!
Ricardo: 5/10. Mage with some occasionally useful buffs and a battle guitar. EDIT: According to Elf his magic stat is worse than I thought, so sure, -1.
-
Mao has the same magic stat as Slim Hilda (and substantially better than Ricardo) so if the latter is a mage, so is the former. <_<
edit: int stats
Shania: 65-75 depending on fusion
Mao: 64
Slim Hilda: 64
Natan: 59
Ricardo: 56
Johnny: 53 (goes to 65 as Awaker)
Curvy Hilda: 52
Frank: 49
So yeah Ricardo being a "mage" while Natan is a "fighter" is also a bit silly (though I guess Natan does have more Str too! ps Natan > Ricardo).
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny: Well he's fast! And has Snap! He's also kind of not good at offense until getting Awaker, but his stuff probably gets him up to an average score. 5/10
Shania: Does that harmonixer thing. Oh right she also picks up Arc buffs way the hell earlier than anyone else that's cool. 9/10
Natan: Meh. Combo whoring isn't as good and lack of standing out in important areas doesn't fill me with the carings, he can be a worse Karin or something, go him. 5/10
Frank: Even more meh, dat INT. 3/10
Mao: Ties with Slim Hilda for cast-best magic stat, which is worth something at least (okay fused PCs beat them out but they cheat). Specials are kind of eh though. 6.5/10
Hilda: Yep. 8/10
Ricardo: Gets that strike booster eventually, only +20% instead of +50% but it lasting three turns and SH3 being the more difficult game leads me to respect it a bit more than I do Lucia's. Too bad about the Johnny-level offense though. 4.5/10
Tales of Phantasia:
Cress: 8/10
Chester: 1/10
Mint: 6.5/10
Claus: 6/10
Arche: 6.5/10
Suzu: Abstain
-
Johnny: 5/10. He's okay. Fast at least, Awaker is a really nice endgame push (the SP cost is intimidating but between Flare Brooch and Blood Jewel I have a hard time caring). Until then the offence is kinda bad but whatever, speed gets him to 4 probably.
Shania: 9/10. Getting Arc buffs mid North America is nuts. Otherwise just has the highest damage, SP, and good durability, etc. Tirawa and Dream Porter both all sorts of dumb if you get them.
Natan: 6/10. Kinda the game's Karin, good overall stats and adds lots of hits.
Frank: 3/10. Yeah he's pretty clearly the worst, Int is too important.
Mao: 6.5/10. Int the god stat. Skills are kinda scrubby but I don't really care.
Hilda: 7.5/10. Mmm, she's kinda overrated I think? That healing skill is really late (and Curvy Hilda has sub-Frank stats) and otherwise she's basically Mao with more SP/less HP, though sure Thorn Whip > Cat Touch. Thaat said, Mao who gets a boost late is still good enough for #2 PC in the game.
Ricardo: 4/10. Like Lucia's non-strike booster skills, found his skills underwhelming (and his strike booster isn't as good / exists in a game where Lady dispels it, though it's still worth noting certainly), and those stats, they are bad.
-
Tales of Graces F:
Asbel: 7/10. Best fighter in the game for control to me.
Sophie: 7/10. Competent healer and fighter.
Cheria: 6.5/10. Excellent healer, bad fighter.
Hubert: 5/10. Hits!
Malik: 4/10. Those charge times suck. Oh well.
Pascal: 3/10-
Richard: 4/10. Sure that works. He's tons of fun to control, but not especially good.
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World
Johnny: 5.5/10. .
Shania: 8.5/10.
Natan: 5/10..
Frank: 4/10.
Mao: 7/10. .
Hilda: 8/10.
Ricardo: 5/10.
Tales of Graces F:
Taking into account extra arc, post game, Accel mode, etc into account some. I played on Chaos.
Asbel: 6/10 - Asbel is decent, yeah. Easy to pick up/learn/use. Is great with B Artes, for combos and for weakness coverage, probably covering weakness better than anyone else except maybe Malik. He has the third best base Accuracy stat in the game and off that at least two great A Artes for stunlocking. His defences are also solid and he has Iron Stance, also HP recovery with his sword sheathe/unsheathe mechanic. Thus makes for a solid enough tank at least on the lower difficulty modes. His Mystic Artes are good for combos and the latter ones hit Nova weakness as well. Asbel isn't really much of a team player though outside the limited tanking. His healing is self only, he has no status curing, team healing, or buffs. His Accel mode kind of drags him down since it isn't anything special compared to what Cheria, Pascal, Hubert and Richard get, most would probably agree he has the second least effective Accel, it's probably at least better than Malik's.
Sophie: 8/10 -
Cheria: 8/10 - Accuracy god stat in Graces, Evade god stat in Graces
Hubert: 7/10 - Best base Accuracy stat in the game. Best Physical Attack stat in the game. Brings the combos and the pain like no tomorrow. His A Artes off that Accuracy enables him to completely lock targets down, one of the best stunlockers in the game and he hits hard while doing it. Flare Shot/Trolling Wonderbolt/Scarlet Salvo/etc all also OP, these B Artes of his are also great for crowd/area of effect control/and group stunlocking because off dat ACC they are doing lots of crits and everything. He also has one of the better Accels, possibly third best after Cheria/Pascal, and he has at least two really great Mystic Artes in Broadside Waltz and Expiation for combos/power, his Accel protects him with the arrows acting as a shield while the arrows raining down do a lot of hits and again off that ACC really pumping up that combo meter and bringing pain with it. Has Vital Flair for self healing but he even brings a targetable healing ability in Healing Wind and same goes for status recovery in Antidote, ok he's not Cheria/Sophie with it but it's useful in a pinch/as back up support.
Malik: 5/10 - Basically more or less the dedicated true/pure mage of the game, long range nuker type of thing. Hits things hard with the magic, some solid crowd control options, great at all types off weakness coverage and off that status effects. Best HP in the game! Negated some by other defences. Not really a team player otherwise though. No healing, team/ally buffing, status recovery, etc to speak off. Accel is probably the worst overall too. Can't even instant cast off it first straight away, has to wait for the kicking to finish =/ Oh yeah has a harder time with Nova barriers than others, which is a thing for a while, has an easier time with it later (Culling Flare, Nova barrier breaking title) but there are still others better at it. Mystic Artes are named awesmely/are great aesthetically but don't really do anything.
Pascal: 6.5/10 -
Richard: 5.5/10 - The light of the heavens! The light of the heavens! The light of the heavens! Shooting Stars! Shooting Stars! Shooting Stars! Spam, spam. Yeah, Richard's reduce casting time is great. Especially with an A Artes string, and other casting time reduction factors like titles, rattling off a bunch of Shooting Stars at the end. Depending on CC of course. Set up properly he can dominate/sweep/lock down the field with this . Competent mage knight but not really outstanding outside of Accel mode. Aside from Vengeant Fangs spam in general I suppose. Has at least one good A Arte combo towards contributing to stunlocking along with his spells. Again though not really much of a team player. Does get self healing but that's really not that great, and some status curing from being Hubert's friend I suppose. Marginally better than Malik in that regards. As far as Mystic Artes go Majestic Gate is awesome, but the rest are kind of meh/not great. I kind of like Vertix Rose though.
-
catchup time~
Suikoden 3 ver. all of the pcs because I'm silly:
Hugo: don't hug me mom/10 (needs time to come into his own, but is an excellent vehicle for physical thwacking when he does, and hey he can ride things before that happens. 7.5/10)
Chris: lesbian magnet/10 (tank all the things, delivers acceptable physical thwacking, TWR not really carring much about her shit magic stat is also nice when you have it. 8/10)
Geddoe: captains a comedy troupe/10 (not quiiiiite sold on him being the weakest of the main when the true runes aren't an option, though Hugo's probably better during that C5 stretch, and you get to play with TLR more than the others, and it is a silly silly little thing. 8.5/10)
Sasarai: lost his hat/10 (I love how the True Earth Rune's offensive spells are utterly useless for the five seconds you have it, oh well, tons of spell charges and a free Flowing rune means he can play support in the final while everyone else does the actual killing. 5/10.
Luc-3: still a douche/10
Yuber: fuck off/10
Thomas: is fated to wear the frilly dress/10 (that level of investment for someone with 03 str no thanks. 2.5/10)
Cecille: chris fangirl/10 (Thomas unite! Tank but not very good at it even when caught up, and high investment to boot. 4/10)
Juan: zzzzz/10 (Waking rune circumvention is trivial, still somewhat high investment but that is some high-end physical smash. 7/10)
Piccolo: hohoho/10 (starting E in lightning with A+ maximum OH FUCKING BOY, also has a locked and shitty physical rune, go away. 2.5/10)
Borus: angryface/10 (Tank that is good at delivering physical pain. 6/10)
Percival: hair gel/10 (Think he's a touch overrated, actually, only two free skill slots and one rune slot means there's only so much he can do with his good stats. Still, he's versatile enough for a 6.5/10, I think.)
Salome: exists/10 (unimpressive but durable-ish mage. 5/10)
Leo: can't catch kids/10 (Tanks aren't so good that I want one that's stuck at one swing forever. 3/10)
Roland: random elf/10 (how mediocre. 3.5/10)
Ace: loudmouth bickerer/10 (the stats are there but the skills kind of aren't. 4.5/10)
Aila: soda/10 (hello free shield rune and general competence. 6/10)
Jacques: .../10 (hello less competence. 3.5/10)
Joker: alcoholic old man/10 (pure mage that tries to pretend he isn't a pure mage OH MAN. Also locked shitty physical rune, still better than Piccolo. 4/10)
Queen: vegetarian/10 (unimpressive magic affinities and a shitty locked rune is kind of a waste of an 06 magic stat, but oh well, at least the physical end is okay. 5.5/10)
Yuiri: chief of the lesbians/10 (Oh man A in Heavy Damage on someone with Sharpshooter and a Killer rune and pretty great stats. Joins late but that's basically the only thing she does wrong. 6.5/10)
Yumi: lesbian villager/10 (Yuiri without Heavy Damage and specializing in Earth. Be still my heart. 5/10)
Alanis: st. lol knight/10 (PURE MAGE WITH 04 MAGIC. 1/10)
Augustine: roses/10 (actually good locked rune, fixed custom tunic... isn't the worst thing he could of done, gets rose brooches if you care. 6/10)
Ayame: ninja/10 (hello three swings and evasion. 6/10)
Bazba: lizard/10 (lol locked cyclone rune with 02 magic and B in wind, lol one swing forever. At least he can take hits, unlike Alanis. 2/10.)
Beecham: exists/10 (hello mr. mediocrity with 7 free skill slots. 4/10.)
Belle: has a barrel/10 (oh man A in fire and earth, the worst two of the main five. 4/10)
Bright: dragon/10 (meh monsters. 3/10.)
Connie: ko/10 (I deny the existance of useable pale gate runes and even if I didn't OH MAN takin' hits worse than Yulie. 0.5/10)
Duke: animu rivalry/10 (skill selection and weapon tend to matter a bit more than good stats, and while Duke has the latter, he doesn't really have the former, oh man one swing and no heavy armor. 2.5/10.)
Dupa: lizard/10 (if I wanted a Fury rune I'd use someone who wasn't stuck at one fucking swing. 3/10.)
Edge: find a vampire or something/10 (has something along the lines of Duke's problem, but at least has a better weapon to salvage things. 4.5/10.)
Elaine: staring contests/10 (actually has the stats and the skills. 6/10)
Emily: arm wrestling/10 (Smashy smashy~. 8/10)
Estella: trolls apprentices/10 (pure mage in Suikoden 3. Joy of joys. 3/10)
Franz: bug rider/10 (I'd rather just use Elaine if I wanted a fighter that minored in lightning rune usage. 4/10.)
Fred: find a windmill or something/10 (Borus trading Heavy Damage for a shield. Not really a winning trade in my opinion. 5/10.)
Fubar: griffon/10 (eh monsters. 4/10.)
Futch: eternal mediocrity/10 (4/10.)
Gadget Z: is a barrel/10 (Ah, no. 1/10.)
Gau-3: dogman/10 (There are better fighters, but there are also worse ones. 4.5/10.)
Hallec: axeaxeaxe/10 (Not really a turn 1 kind of guy given his issues in actually reaching a target to smack with his hefty three swings, which ultimately does not lead me to care much about him. 4/10.)
Jimba: why does the game even consider you a pc/10
Kenji: coach/10 (03 str on a pure fighter OH MAN. 1/10.)
Kogoro: arf/10 (oh man suikodogs. 0.5/10)
Koichi: woof/10 (oh man suikodogs. 0.5/10)
Koroku: bow wow/10 (oh man suikodogs. 0.5/10)
Kosanji: bark/10 (oh man suikodogs. 0.5/10)
Landis: don't sneak up on me man/10 (oh man mediocre skills, mediocre str, and a horribly slow weapon. 1.5/10.)
Lilly: sabre rattling/10 nice hat/10 (Borus trading the durability for somewhat better magic use. Not the most amazing trade given the affinities there but not the worst. 5/10.)
Lucia: suiko2 boss/10 (is good at things. 6/10.)
Lulu: gremio no/10
Mel: branky/10 (S in Lightning means that there are worse people, even if the stats don't really impress. 5/10.)
Melville: st. lol knight/10 (Just... there are so many other people with Heavy Damage, ones that don't have 03 Str. 2/10.)
Mua: moustache/10 (Terrible magic affinities waste his 05 magic stat, otherwise, S3 tank. 5/10.)
Nash: are you really married/10 (decent physical oriented character. 5.5/10)
Nei: bard/10 (I guess Jongluer rune is kind of neat but not sure how much I care in practice. Gonna lazy and give a 4/10.)
Nicholas: wait you spoke?/10 (what did I say about tanks with one swing. 2/10.)
Reed: licks lilly's boots/10 (oh man more mediocrity. 3.5/10.)
Rhett: fat duck/10 (Bad accuracy kind of hampers his potential good-powered three swings. 4/10.)
Rico: sancho panza/10 (oh man mediocre water runer with bad stats and one swing. 3/10.)
Rody: is trolled/10 (S IN MAGIC SWORD ON A PURE MAGE OH MAN otherwise Alanis-level affinities but at least he actually starts with them instead of needing investment. 1.5/10.)
Ruby: bug/10 (eh monsters. 3/10.)
Samus: licks lilly's boots/10 (oh man more mediocrity. 3.5/10)
Sanae Y: like father like daughter/10 (not really good but not really bad either. 4/10.)
Sarah: emo for luc/10
Sgt. Joe: smug duck/10 (A bit like Percy, lacks armor but has Heavy Damage, more open slots but a slower weapon. Probably not a winning trade but far from the worst one could make. 6/10.)
Shabon: drums/10 (Not... really sure why you'd bother. 2/10.)
Sharon: what a brat/10 (yawn. 3.5/10)
Shiba: lizard/10 (Warrior rune on someone with crap for... whatever the tradeoff was oh yeah also ONE FUCKING SWING. 2/10.)
Toppo: nose/10 (Not.. really sure why you'd bother. 2/10.)
Twaikin: shovel/10 (pure fighter with one swing and 03 skill. 2/10.
Big Viki: achoo/10 (pure mage in Suikoden 3. 3/10.)
Little Viki: pime taradox/10 (pure mage in Suikoden 3. 3/10.)
Wan Fu: dine and dasher/10 (rather mehish. 3/10.)
Watari: ninja/10 (kind of notably worse than Ayame. 3/10.)
Wilder: skinny duck/10 (meh. 3.5/10.)
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny: 6/10. He's great in the tail end of the game but that's only worth so much. Before then he's...kind of "eh." The Camera is nice granted.
Shania: 9/10. A Harmonixer in a Shadow Hearts game, we know how this goes.
Natan: 5/10. Utterly generic and sort of annoying extra stuff to maintain him (I don't penalize him for that though)
Frank: 3/10. Is there anything you aren't bad at, Frank? Ok, technically yes, but I have to mock!
Mao: 5/10. Good at using Crests, at least.
Hilda: 6/10. Nice Variety and good with crests.
Ricardo: 4/10. More effective than Frank, but not much else.
Tales of Phantasia:
Cress: 9/10. Being the playable character he's kind of integral in a lot of obvious ways.
Chester: 4/10. Never see a reason to use him over mages in the main game in either version.
Mint: 6/10. Healer, kind of necessary as back up.
Claus: 7/10. Mage who nukes things dead.
Arche: 7/10. ...likewise, Claus mk2, in a game where using 2 Mages is not a bad idea either.
Suzu: 2/10. She's not really good at anything from my recollection and joins stupid late on top of that.
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny: 6/10
Shania: 8/10
Natan: 4/10
Frank: 3/10
Mao: 3/10
Hilda: 7/10
Ricardo: 5/10
Tales of Phantasia:
Cress: 8/10
Chester: 5/10
Mint: 7/10
Claus: 7/10
Arche: 8/10
Suzu: 2/10
Tales of Graces F:
Asbel: 5/10
Sophie: 6/10
Cheria: 7/10
Hubert: 6/10
Malik: 5/10
Pascal: 4/10
Richard: 4/10
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
NOTE: I haven't beaten the game, but got all the PCs and did most of the optional shit prior to the final stretch.
Johnny: 6/10. I overvalue scan.
Shania: 8/10. Feels like constantly the best person to have, but doesn't feel dominating like Yuri did.
Natan: 5/10. Is there, isn't terribad.
Frank: 1/10. *Never* feels like a better choice for a slot then ANY other PC.
Mao: 5/10. Catmage, felt like...basically as good as Natan. More interesting, but still mostly just there.
Hilda: 6/10. Better then the "mostly just there" duo.
Ricardo: 4/10. I used him because he's cooler then Mao and Natan. not because he's better.
Tales of Phantasia:
NOTE: I only played the GBA version.
Cress: 9/10. Does very close to all of the damage your party puts out for most of the game.
Chester: 1/10. No.
Mint: 6/10. Well, she's a good healbot at least.
Claus: 6/10. Worse then Arche for most of the game from what I recall, but you still use him.
Arche: 7/10. Boom.
Suzu: 1/10. Does not actually exist.
Tales of Graces F:
NOTE: I haven't beaten the final dungeon, but got right up to it. Also haven't played F Arc.
Asbel: 7/10. Felt like the best character to control, easily. Solid all around.
Sophie: 8/10. Cast MVP to me. I actually controlled her most of the time unless I needed 2 healers(I let the AI handle healing).
Cheria: 7/10. Healing healing healing healing. I never control her personally due to letting the AI heal. But she's very good at that, and I'll give her an extra point for tricks that let a human player use her in non boring ways.
Hubert: 3/10. I like Hubert, I try to control him sometimes, buuuut he just feels like Asbel- all around. This is probably me being bad, but for "In game use" rankings, ease of use definitely counts.
Malik: 4/10.
Pascal: 5/10. Does great stuff...under AI control. Can't get the hang of her at all, myself.
Richard: F Arc/10.
-
Will try and do the rest of my ToGF reasons/SH3 ratings Fri/Sat :)
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny: 5
Shania: 8
Natan: 5
Frank: 4
Mao: 6
Hilda: 7
Ricardo: 4
-
Tales of Graces F:
Asbel: 5
Sophie: 8
Cheria: 8
Hubert: 8
Malik: 5
Pascal: 7
Richard: 6
-
Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
NOTE: I haven't beaten the game, but got all the PCs and did most of the optional shit prior to the final stretch.
Johnny: 6/10. I overvalue scan.
Shania: 8/10. Feels like constantly the best person to have, but doesn't feel dominating like Yuri did.
Natan: 5/10. Is there, isn't terribad.
Frank: 1/10. *Never* feels like a better choice for a slot then ANY other PC.
Mao: 5/10. Catmage, felt like...basically as good as Natan. More interesting, but still mostly just there.
Hilda: 6/10. Better then the "mostly just there" duo.
Ricardo: 4/10. I used him because he's cooler then Mao and Natan. not because he's better.
Tales of Phantasia:
NOTE: I only played the GBA version.
Cress: 9/10. Does very close to all of the damage your party puts out for most of the game.
Chester: 1/10. No.
Mint: 6/10. Well, she's a good healbot at least.
Claus: 6/10. Worse then Arche for most of the game from what I recall, but you still use him.
Arche: 7/10. Boom.
Suzu: 1/10. Does not actually exist.
Tales of Graces F:
NOTE: I haven't beaten the final dungeon, but got right up to it. Also haven't played F Arc.
Asbel: 7/10. Felt like the best character to control, easily. Solid all around.
Sophie: 8/10. Cast MVP to me. I actually controlled her most of the time unless I needed 2 healers(I let the AI handle healing).
Cheria: 7/10. Healing healing healing healing. I never control her personally due to letting the AI heal. But she's very good at that, and I'll give her an extra point for tricks that let a human player use her in non boring ways.
Hubert: 3/10. I like Hubert, I try to control him sometimes, buuuut he just feels like Asbel- all around. This is probably me being bad, but for "In game use" rankings, ease of use definitely counts.
Malik: 5/10.
Pascal: 4/10.
Richard: F Arc/10.
I actually agree with this pretty solidly! Only change is that Malik and Pascal needed to switch scores.
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If you want to switch them, you should probably switch them!
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Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
Johnny: 5.5. Overvalue scan (+ even more with doing stat topic)
Shania: 9. Should say that overall, I found her more impressive than Yuri 2. A large part of that is...that the game is a lot more difficult and her stuff now actually matter. For all that a lot of stuff is toned down from the previous game, those buffs are great. She gets....really, really evil at endgame.
Natan: 5. Solid if uninspiring choice.
Frank: 2.5. Obvious worst, for all that I can't see the ratings of 1 too much (I mean...he's not an active liability, just the clear game loser)
Mao: 5.5. Solid is uninspiring choice. The MT revival would be really cool except that the way SH 3 revival is already pretty broken really mitigates the need for MT revival (since lack of CT reset and relatively strong revival means that you often aren't seeing multiple dead PCs). Probably worth an extra 0.5 in theory as a panic button.
Hilda: 6.5. Unlike Mao, the late MT Healing skill gets a lot of use from me. Otherwise, has some form variety (although that's tempered by a only 1 being that good), but hey.
Ricardo: 6. Might be alone here, but I found a great overall uses for his unique skills thanks to stacking with other buffs for maximum potency. Ability to simo raise Attack and MAgic 30% for everyone but him is a great niche
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If you want to switch them, you should probably switch them!
Posting from phone, combination of hate and lazy.
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Friendly "Updating Tomorrow Night" reminder is inserted here and all that.
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Shadow Hearts: From the New World
Johnny Garland: 5.5/10. Sure, extra half-point for Snap. Speed is cool, though the offensive stat spread is just kinda junky until Gay Incan Stripper. Still, that's a nice endgame push.
Shania: 9.5/10. Arc buffs that early what the fuck. Past that, the usual Harmonixer bullshit in a game where it actually matters. Impressive as hell, and becomes completely broken at endgame.
Natan: 6/10. The offensive stat spread is fine. He's Karin, only with slightly more awkward specials, but that's not a big deal.
Frank: 2/10. Eeeeew pure physical fighter and game-worst speed in SH3.
Mao: 6.5/10. Int the god stat. Her specials aren't much more interesting than Natan's otherwise, but there's -some- niche stuff there and Int god stat.
Hilda: 7.5/10. Int god stat and she eventually gets variety - not to mention her offensive specials in Slim Form aren't bad at all. #2 PC all and all.
Ricardo: 4.5/10. The buffs are kinda cool? But it's kind of a Lucia situation here, and Ricardo's offensive spread is Johnny-level. He sucks against randoms that way.
Tales of Phantasia (MEEPLE NOTE: use the average score I list here!):
Cress Albane: 7/10 original, 8.5 PSX, average 8/10. Kinda quintessential as your only controllable PC. In PSX version, he gets kinda nuts with combos in the lategame, but feels equally good in practice given the game contexts.
Chester Barklight: 2/10 original, 5/10 PSX, average 3.5/10. ToPo Chester is junk. ToP PSX gives him a neat skillset, but he still joins underlevelled and requires catch-up - and he ain't outpacing Cress in offense. On the other hand, he becomes very capable at tying up enemies from a distance, which is cool (useful for keeping mages safe at times, at least, and his offense eventually builds up into goodness).
Mint Adnade: 7/10 on both. Mint is pretty much the same on both games. Healing is rather valuable and she does it well, the works.
Claus F. Lester: 6.5/10 on both. Claus starts off sorta underwhelming and then progressively gets better, having a few windows of sheer ST dominance (especially lategame) and being overall competent as soon as he gets Ifrit/Undine. Before his first summon, though, he's incredibly useless, and in ToPo, getting Sylph doesn't help much either. Still, he's okay.
Arche Klein: 6.5/10 on both. Arche dominates the midgame like nobody's business - especially in ToP PSX, where she starts figuring at the top of the damage curve pretty much on join with Ice Tornado and Cyclone, which are both damaging as hell -and- GT. In the original, the dominance starts a bit later (Thunder Blade!), but still really great. She falls behind in the lategame until Meteor Swarm because Claus' spells get eventually better mults, so they're pretty much sorta mirrors. Regardless, you always want at least one mage in ToP, often two. Can't really go wrong with either.
Suzu: 2/10. Just awful. Bad weapons, awkward specials and poor stats. AND she joins underlevelled! Ew.
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Shadow Hearts: From the New World:
AVG STDEVA
Johnny: 5.55 0.47
Shania: 8.59 0.58
Natan: 5 0.89
Frank: 2.59 0.92
Mao: 5.5 1.07
Hilda: 6.95 0.76
Ricardo: 4.55 0.65
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.88
Tales of Phantasia:
AVG STDEVA
Cress: 8.43 0.53
Chester: 2.5 1.66
Mint: 6.36 0.48
Claus: 6.36 0.48
Arche: 7 0.5
Suzu: 1.6 0.82
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 2.70
Tales of Graces F:
AVG STDEVA
Asbel: 6.14 0.9
Sophie: 7.43 0.79
Cheria: 7.21 0.57
Hubert: 5.14 1.95
Malik: 4.71 0.49
Pascal: 4.64 1.6
Richard: 4.5 2.41
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.25
Best Rating of this Session: Shania w/ 8.59
Worst Rating of this Session: Suzu w/ 1.60
Most Average Rating of this Session (aka rating closest to the Mean, that being 5.54): Johnny w/ 5.55.
Perfect 5.00 Award: Natan.
Yes, we're doing a "Most Average" ratnig from now on because it gives an extra useless stat that people like, even if it is fundamentally flawed in a number of ways! And yes, the tiebreaker in these cases goes to whoever goes above it. What, not like Price is Right you say? Well, being above average deserves a reward compared to below average even if this technically isn't an award! What? Don't agree with me?
...well bah I say! For that, you guys are going to do Ogre Battle! ...and a bonus round...
Ogre Battle:
Destin (aka the Lord):
Lans:
Warren:
Canopus:
Gilbert:
Ashe:
Lyon:
Aisha:
Norn:
Rauny:
Tristan:
Debonair:
Yushis:
Saradin:
Slust:
Fenril:
Fogel:
Galf:
Deneb:
Paladin:
Vampyre:
Werewolf:
Tigerman:
Ninja Master:
Doll Master:
Beast Master:
Dragon Master:
Samurai Master:
Lich:
Evil One:
Muse:
Monk:
Witch:
Princess:
Mermaid:
Fairy:
Angel:
Hawkman:
Demon:
Platinum Dragon:
Salamander:
Zombie Dragon:
Wyvern:
Griffon:
Octopus:
Hellhound:
Pumpkin:
Giant:
Golem:
Ghost:
Skeleton:
BONUS ROUND:
Mega Man 2 Weapons:
Mega Buster:
Air Shooter:
Atomic Fire:
Bubble Lead:
Crash Bomb:
Leaf Shield:
Metal Blade:
Quick Boomerang:
Time Stopper:
Item 1:
Item 2:
Item 3:
(Item 1 = Floating Pads. Item 2 = Jet. Item 3 = Bouncing Wall Climbing thing, for those who get the 3 confused.)
I'm listing the final form of each path in the case of those with actual split paths (most humans for example), at least where there are legitimate differences other than elemental qualities. This is to factor in previous forms too naturally. For those with straight promotions, I'm just listing one arbitrary form from each path that comes to mind, mostly just because it's easier that way. This does include cases where one doesn't actually upgrade to the other, but it's clearly intended to be a promotion of it (Like Phantoms vs. Ghosts). If you really wish to separate them, feel free to write them in.
For the record, I sort of gave up after a point trying to be accurate based on order in Ogre Battle PCs, because I stopped caring and there is some non-linearity in there anyway! I am also probably going to regret this session, but you can blame this entirely on super.
ALSO, if I missed anyone or anything, please note and I will add it above!
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Ogre Battle:
Destin (aka the Lord): 5/10. He's useful early on with Ice Cloud or a physical build, but he quickly falls off. He's never terrible, but it's game over if he dies, which does discourage being aggressive with him.
Lans: 6.5/10. He's a marginally better Paladin who has some good earlygame use due to joining as an L4 Knight. Works.
Warren: 8/10. Mage. Mages rule.
Canopus: 8/10. Unlike in TO, he's not great in combat. Why is he ranked so high? He can recruit Hawkmen. Hawkmen are great, a single one turns a unit of small characters into a low sky unit. Score.
Gilbert: 6.5/10. He's basically Lans who has to classchange over to Knight. Eh. I'm giving generic guys like this a slightly improved score over their best generic class option.
Ashe: 6.5/10. Slightly better Lans. Paladins make the core of your army, and he's better than a generic one.
Lyon: 5/10. -1 for costing money to recruit and not being special outside of STR. He's better than a generic Knight, but still.
Aisha: 7.5/10. Improved female generic. Works.
Norn: 7.5/10. See Aisha.
Rauny: 8/10. *really* freaking good stats and starts as a Muse. Rauny is good out the box and stays that way the entrire game.
Tristan: 8/10. My name is Tristan Zenobia. You killed my father. Prepare to die. Gares: *Flee* Awesome stats, if sligthtly less nuts than the Dragoons.
Debonair: 8/10. OB General. They are good.
Yushis: 5/10. The only Angelic/devil type worth using in the game. Her version of Jihad is extremely painful, but... still. OB Angel and all. Also a bit of a late joiner.
Saradin: 8.5/10. Best Lich in the game, joins as a Mage so you don't have to deal with alignment fuckery. Score!
Slust: 8.5/10. See Fenril.
Fenril: 8.5/10. Slightly worse stats than Fogel, but joins a little earlier. This works.
Fogel: 9/10. Seriously scary stats. All three of the Dragoons can tank like champs. The big five frontliners obsolete the Lans/Ashe types pretty hardcore just on resists alone. Fogel's a bit of a late recruit and requires very high alignment to get, which hurts some. Still, he's about as good as a ST fighter can get in OB. E: He has notably more STR than everyone. Mmm sure. This works.
Galf: 1/10. Awesome stats on an awful class. You also have to give up a +20 STR sword and have to drop your rep like a brick to get him. Fail.
Deneb: 4/10. Excellent INT but nothing else. The witch class is crap and she's a pain in the ass to recruit.
Paladin: 6/10. One of the towns in Fort Allamoot sums it up well. 'Paladins are the backbone of the Empire's army. They aren't flashy, but they get the job done'. They tend to get outshone late by the big five frontliners, though.
Vampyre: 6/10. Hellishly tanky, but requires a special item to get and is only useful at night. They can also recruit Werewolves, who are pretty close to immortal at night. I tend to find them to be excellent at first, but trail off later on, once you start unlocking Paladins nad other high end classes.
Werewolf: 6/10. Great stats, but lose a lot of points for being really bad during the day. They even have lower stat growth during the day, which is just insulting.
Tigerman: 4/10. Fun class (Highest STR growth in the game), but has one less attack than werewolves and there is no reliable way to get them.
Ninja Master: 7.5/10. They can't lead, but holy crap. Three attacks at like L5 and excellent AGI growth=yes please.
Doll Master: 4/10. Acid cloud is physical elemental and their only spell, which hurts them somewhat. They also have a somewhat narrow alignment range for promotion, which hurts.
Beast Master: 2/10. Two attacks and specializes in MONSTER RECRUITMENT YES *flush*
Dragon Master: 0/10. 1. Requires a dropped item to promote. 2. Doesn't finish promoting until L23. 3. 40-60 alignment range for final promotion. This is extremely difficult to do, as OB tends to favor high or low alignment on PC's. 4. *Awful* as combat PC's, they only get two physicals. They are fucking awful.
Samurai Master: 6/10. They're basically the same as Knights.
Lich: 8/10. -2 for being extremely difficult to get. Mages themselves are somewhat tough to get (10-35 alignment range) and they require two items to promote. Once you get them though, whoof. The carnage is unreal, they get three MT spells a battle and have excellent resists. They are one of the all time great broken classes in RPGs and are only held back by recruiting limitations.
Muse: 7/10. Solid MT mage. best of the girl classes by a mile.
Monk: 6/10. They have a lot of use early, but fade when you get access to Muses and other ways to kill undead. Also you can just rely on item healing or blitzing later on.
Witch: 1/10. Awful. Stun's okay, but they never ever promote from that.
Princess: 9/10. The other half of OB's uber broken classes. Dream crowns are very luck of the draw (I've had games where I got six and other games where I never got one), but +1 attacks to everyone in your team is silly. They are extremely fragile, which is their only combat weakness. Still, you get at least one dream crown through talking to people at towns, and if you get one early.... Goodbye game.
Mermaid: 3.5/10. Ice storm's an okay niche, but you're better off just going with Muses for generic female back row characters.
Fairy: 2/10. Magic Missile's a neat gimmick, but it's so freaking late.The first two fairy classes are beyond worthless. High AGI and INT makes them very evasive at least!
Angel: 2/10. Awful until Seraphims, which are pretty late. Still, Holy's an excellent element to have.
Hawkman: 7/10. See Canopus.
Demon: 1/10. Awful. Oh goodie, ST magic until like L20, and then a single MT darkness spell. *FLUSH* High stats for a generic aren't enough to save them.
Platinum Dragon: 2/10. Ice Cloud's nice, but it's level fucking 23. Dragons aren't very good at offense (Large size and two attacks) so they're a bad investment.
Salamander: 2/10. See above. In addition, they require a back row slot to use the MT smash, where you can't take advantage of their tankiness.
Zombie Dragon: 1/10. Excellent resists, but THEY REQUIRE AN UNDEAD RING FOR PROMOTION. no. On top of that, their damage is all ST. You can recruit em from Galf's map if you're really desparate to use one, but it's not worth it.
Wyvern: 4/10. Are high sky.
Griffon: 6/10. Wind Shot has some use (Early MT is awful nice) and they're high sky.
Octopus: 5/10. Good on water maps, but that's a pretty limited niche to have. Four attacks means they are better than human fighters for most of the game in water though, which is enough to give them a decent score.
Hellhound: 2/10. Bad. I want to like monsters, but they're so crappy in practice due to the size.
Pumpkin: 2/10. Funny gimmick, but mostly bad due to the accuracy.
Giant: 3/10. Double wind shot on Titans is something, but they're mostly bad.
Golem: 0.5/10. Golems can't promote for some reason and they have no HP. Avoid avoid
Ghost: 5/10. Funky class. There is enough holy damage/clerics to avoi them from being awesome, and you can't promote them as well. That said, they have use due to immuning all non holy damage.
Skeleton: 5/10. See above.
E: Black Knights/Evil Ones- 1/10. They are *hilariously* outclassed by Ninjas on offense. Like Black Knights can't beat ninjas in damage. That's bad!
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Mega Buster: 4/10. I like to think of the Mega Buster as a 5 and work from there, but games with bad weapons make it look good, and games with good weapons make it look bad. MM2 is one of the latter. In particular there's very little reason to use it once you get a certain 10/10 weapon...
Air Shooter: 7/10. Good damage (enough to one-shot the hoppers who are jerks), good coverage. Its downsides are that you can only fire one every couple seconds or so, so missing a shot is annoying. Not much WE but good damage per WE so whatever.
Atomic Fire: 1/10. lol wtf is this nonsense. Okay. The first shot is literally a buster which takes longer to fire and you can only have one on the screen at once. The second shot has a small window where you can actually fire it and is incredibly cost-inefficient anyway. So literally the only thing this weapon has is a 2-use fully charged shot which... can claim the odd OHKO other weapons might struggle with against a few enemies (like those fan dudes in Air Man's stage). It's also a reasonably quick take-out of Wily's first form but Crash is better if you have any ammo for it left, and that boss really sucks anyway so whatever.
Bubble Lead: 2/10. Groundcrawlers are bad and should feel bad. No credit for killing Wily, it only does that because they literally chose the worst weapon possible to make the fight harder. So it gets one point for killing those spring guys or something.
Crash Bomb: 5/10. Power! But slow, so slow. A well-placed one can make mincemeat out of bosses who are weak to it and generally at worst it functions like an instant, 7-shot version of fully-charged Atomic Fire at other times. ... good lord Atomic Fire sucks.
Leaf Shield: 8/10. So yeah this is invincibility from a whole bunch of things that throw themselves at you (baby bird swarms, those rotating dudes in Crashman's level/etc.), is another weapon with great power, and is 4-directional with a ridiculous radius. WE cost only allows for 9 shots but that's enough with how good it is, and it doesn't have the slowness of the other high-power weapons.
Metal Blade: 10/10. Hahahaha. Yeah never mind. 8-directional, power isn't amazing but is better than the buster and "good enough" for a weapon you can spam like mad, also pierces things it kills the way the high-power weapons do. Whatever go nuts, use this on virtually everything.
Quick Boomerang: 3/10. Buster which sometimes does more damage (lions) but equally often tinks (hoppers) and has less range. I find the weird vertical works more against it than for it but YMMV.
Time Stopper: 4/10. Only has one shot but you can put that to good use. Skipping Quickman lasers, the crushers in wily stage 2, or just making a mockery of a boss, whatever. That said, only so good a score a one-shot weapon can get.
Item 1: 6/10. Pretty nice platforming weapon.
Item 2: 7/10. Skipping that nasty section of Heat Man's stage alone makes it the best of the items.
Item 3: 4/10. Largely a more cumbersome version of item 1, but there are a few places where you can use it cleverly, and eh you'll probably beat Flash Man before Heat Man for a few reasons.
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Ogre Battle:
Destin (aka the Lord): 7/10. I found him pretty potent. Always used Icecloud Destin.
Lans: 7/10. Legit.
Warren: 7/10. Not that great unless you make him a Lich.
Canopus: 5/10. I don't give points for non-combat stuff over all.
Gilbert: 6.5/10.
Ashe: 7.5/10. Randomly really solid.
Lyon:Never got him?
Aisha: 5/10. Meh, Clerics. +1 for general being a PC
Norn: 5/10. See Aisha.
Rauny: 8/10. Yeah, she has broked stats.
Tristan: 8/10.
Debonair: 8/10
Yushis: 4/10
Saradin: 8.5/10.
Slust: 8/10.
Fenril: 8.5/10.
Fogel: 9/10. Seriously fantastic.
Galf: 1.5/10. lolno
Deneb: DNR
Paladin: 6/10
Vampyre: 6/10. Night only, but tanky!
Werewolf: 5/10. Night only
Tigerman: 4/10
Ninja Master: 6.5/10.
Doll Master: 6/10. I'm a fan of the early acquisition of MT death.
Beast Master: 2/10. Child, please.
Dragon Master: 1/10. Beast Master that requires an item to get. Fucking joke.
Samurai Master: 5/10.
Lich: 10/10. Yo dawg I heard you like breaking this game
Muse: 7/10.
Monk: 4/10.
Witch: 2.5/10. Not that terrible but not good.
Princess: 9.5/10. The well-known Princess + Lich friendship wrecks universes.
Mermaid: NA.
Fairy: 2/10. No.
Angel: 2/10. No
Hawkman: 5/10.
Demon: 1/10.
BONUS ROUND:
Mega Man 2 Weapons:
Mega Buster: 4.5/10
Air Shooter: 6/10. The angle's a little weird.
Atomic Fire: 0.5/10. What the fuuuuuuuuck
Bubble Lead: 1.5/10. A groundcrawlers needs to be two of really damaging, big, and/or fast to be effective. Bubble Lead isn't really any of those.
Crash Bomb: 6/10. Solid at doin' work.
Leaf Shield: 8/10. Large projectile which can protect in a pinch.
Metal Blade: 10/10. Such a bad boss to give such a broken weapon.
Quick Boomerang: 4/10.
Time Stopper: 4/10
Item 1: 5/10
Item 2: 7/10
Item 3: 3/10
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BONUS ROUND:
Mega Man 2 Weapons:
Mega Buster: 2/10 it would otherwise be a fairly respectful Buster if Metal Blade didn't exist.
Air Shooter: 6/10 the scooter guys are a pain and it can oneshot Crash Man for hilarity and it can make some tricky shots.
Atomic Fire: 1/10 I'll give it a score for Wily but otherwise BLEH.
Bubble Lead: 2/10 is the weakness of Heat Man and he's kinda a annoying boss so eh.
Crash Bomb: 3/10 Actually loses points because Buebeam Trap is such a bullshit fight and it being required is terrible. At least it'll hurt Quick Man since lol Time Stopper.
Leaf Shield: INFINITE/10 BEATS AIR MAN! Probably around ehhhhh a 7/10 otherwise. Being still is kinda annoying but there's a fair amount of pointless platform waiting being nigh invincible can help for.
Metal Blade: 10/10 Metal Blade's so overpowering that it actively worsens the scores of other weapons.
Quick Boomerang: 3/10 Suffers the most from being in a game with Metal Blade because it's a respectable Buster replacement otherwise.
Time Stopper: 3/10 One-shot and burns out its charge fast as hell? Eww. Good thing Quick Lasers are just that big of a pain and Quick Man's better fought with Crash Bomb's anyway.
Item 1: 4/10 forced use of this and 3 is just a pain considering respawns and energy and failing jumps.
Item 2: 7/10 it flies!
Item 3: 2/10 see Item 1 except worse.
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Ogre Battle:
Destin (aka the Lord): 7/10. Solid throughout, only real downside is that whole "main dies game over" thing.
Lans: 7/10. Babby's first knight tends to end up your best of the Knight guys.
Warren: 7/10. MAGE! Yay!
Canopus: 8/10. Used him a lot. I hate his recruitment map, though.
Gilbert: 6.5/10. The sea of mediocrity~
Ashe: 6.5/10.
Lyon: 5/10.
Aisha: 5/10. I feel like I should give the girls some credit for Princess potential, but...
Norn: 5/10. Nah...
Rauny: 8/10. Awesomest female in the game?
Tristan: 8/10. And here's our first super-unit.
Debonair: 8/10. Kinda uber.
Yushis: 4/10. Kinda there.
Saradin: 8.5/10. Lich lich lich lich~
Slust: 8/10. Uber frontliner~
Fenril: 8.5/10. Technically the best female in the game~
Fogel: 9/10. This is Fogel, he is randomly this Dragon guy. Could be a 9.5 or 10 if he existed before the game was nearly over.
Galf: 1.5/10. yeah no.
Deneb: 5/10. Bullshit recruitment, but I also found her useful for mixing up tactics when the usual combos didn't work.
I don't remember generics well enough to assign scores.
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Hahahaha screw OB ratings.
Mega Man 2 Weapons
Mega Buster: 4/10. Unfortunate fate the Mega Buster suffers in this one, indeed.
Air Shooter: 6/10. I like the power and I can deal with the angle. I don't like the weapon's poor speed, though.
Atomic Fire: 0.5/10. ew ew ew what the hell is this why would you use this eveeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr
Bubble Lead: 1.5/10. Killing ground crawlers keeps this from being Atomic Fire-level bad.
Crash Bomb: 6.5/10. I really love the damage and area of effect Crash Bomb sports - I always look fondly at this weapon type. Could have more ammo and more speed, but this girl's pretty cool for what it is.
Leaf Shield: 7.5/10. Immobility keeps this baby from being broken, but invincibility that doubles as very competent damage is very cool. Extra half point for handling Air Man bullshit like a boss.
Metal Blade: 10/10. wtf is this how did they think this wasn't completely broken. Aimable, Buster-level spammability with HIGHER DAMAGE BY A CONSIDERABLE MARGIN, pierces, hits a bunch of boss weaknesses, ridiculous ammo so you can pretty much use it infinitely, what the flying hell. You should -never ever- use the Buster once you get this.
Quick Boomerang: 2/10. Uhhhhh beating a sucky boss so impressed. This weapon is otherwise pretty awkward and weak, but at least it's fast.
Time Stopper: 5/10. Way too good at what it's good for. The niches it covers are among the best utility you'd want. Still, only so much a one-shot weapon can do.
Item 1: 6/10. Nice platforming.
Item 2: 7.5/10. I love this for trivializing Heat Man's bullshit platforming alone. Nevermind the other streamlining it can do.
Item 3: 5/10. More cumbersome, but slightly more versatile than item 1. Its awkwardness is a pretty big deal, though.
-
Ogre Battle:
Lich: 10/10. You can't fill your FFT crew with Orlandus either, but they both dominate. Alignment-tweaking to get the Sorcerer upgrade is annoying though, sure.
Undead Dragon: Could be a lich / 10 (1/10)
Other dudes: Not a lich / 10
Mega Buster: 4/10
Air Shooter: 7/10
Atomic Fire: 1/10
Bubble Lead: 3/10 - Very situational, but those situations do exist (Heat Man, enemies too low for the Buster to get)
Crash Bomb: 5/10 - Really cool if not always practical.
Leaf Shield: 6/10
Metal Blade: 10/10
Quick Boomerang: 5/10 - I thought the Dragon was pretty hard, myself, and using the 'rang turns that fight upside down.
Time Stopper: 5/10. Beamfear.
The items are straight utility, hard to compare against the non-Time Stopper weapons. (Compare with, say, MM3, where you can quite credibly use the Rush Jet or Rush Marine to fight stuff with.)
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Ogre Battle:
Destin (aka the Lord): 7/10. Good enough and all that, I'd say Death = Game Over isn't a big deal because you can generally avoid that well enough.
Lans: 6.5/10. Knights are decent, he's a Knight+
Warren: 8.5/10. Wizard line is good, he's Wizard+!
Canopus: 7/10. Strong Eagleman out of the gate when they aren't available for later. I think utility based on mobility is kind of notable because being able to intercept units and stop them from advancing can be notable.
Gilbert: 4/10. He feels like he should be better, but it's more he comes with two Wyrms for mobile tanking, which anyone can take advantage of.
Ashe: 6.5/10. See Lans.
Lyon: 3.5/10. See Gilbert, -0.5 for costing money to recruit and offering nothing but 2 dragons in the process.
Aisha: 7/10. Solid Healer.
Norn: 7/10. ...also a solid healer!
Rauny: 7/10. Solid Muse!
Tristan: 8/10. Generals are good!
Debonair: 8/10. See Above.
Yushis: 6.5/10. Seraphim are good when you get them, but need to be complimented to work.
Saradin: 8.5/10. See Warren. I guess slightly better because he's already a mage meaning he doesn't have to worry about that Alignment nonsense.
Slust: 8.5/10. Dragoons are Generals+
Fenril: 8.5/10. See Slust.
Fogel: 8.5/10. Yeah, he's technically the best, but I didn't really notice it significantly in-game; all 3 Dragoons just kind of walk over things and don't die.
Galf: 1/10. Pain in the ass to recruit, you lose a strong weapon and a lot of rep...yeah, he only gets 1 point because Devils aren't bad.
Deneb: 3/10. Pain in the ass to recruit and not even that good on top of that.
Paladin: 6/10. Solid but nothing special.
Vampyre: 6/10. Interseting gimmick class that somehow is good even when inactive; Coffins are tanks.
Werewolf: 3/10. Annoying to get, only decent at night and awful during the day.
Tigerman: 3/10. See Werewolves.
Ninja Master: 6/10. Evasive and basically a Wizard-line Minus otherwise.
Doll Master: 7/10. Early MT damage, and when MT damage stops being special, they're one of the few with 2 swings of it. This makes them a lot better than you'd expect as a result.
Beast Master: 4/10. Kind of iffy class with little reason to use over other jobs, and no real long term investment.
Dragon Master: 0.5/10. Uh, yeah, only giving it half a point because you need to be Jogurt level bad to get 0. Pain in the ass to get, WORSE than the class it evolves from, and late as fuck, this class is a huge "what the hell were you thinking?"
Samurai Master: 5/10. Ianuki is good for busting up bosses early, but worth little else.
Lich: 8/10. Ok, so this class is absolutely broken beyond all reason, there's no denying that. SO why isn't it higher? It is legitimately hard to get. First off, Mage has a small Window of Alignment and a Charisma req; normally low Ali units are "get to 0, don't care", but Mage has a minimum of 10, which makes it all the harder. Then you need to get an Undead STaff, a rare item, followed by an Undead Ring, ANOTHER rare item. Is it worth it? Oh hell yes, these things are absurd, but that doesn't account for the fact that Wizards and Mages are merely "ok" to "good" and absolutely need to be paired with things that cover them, and given you're stuck in one of those two classes (combined with the issues I mentioned above) most of the game, I cannot reasonably give Lich above this score. If it was simply a late game recruit or something, I'd give higher, but the fact is you are using weaker classes on the same path to reach this.
Evil One: 2/10. Worst line for Males, ignoring Dragon Master and Lycanthrope? Probably!
Muse: 7/10. See Doll Master, though, even better because Thunderstorm, though Valkyrie are < Doll Mage, so we'll say that breaks even.
Monk: 7/10. MT Healing in this game is pretty amazing, before then they're still good for keeping units alive and just busting up pesky Undead units.
Witch: 2.5/10. Stun is neat but has hit rate issues later and they offer nothing for damage. Decent early game, kind of bad mid to late game, they really needed a legitimate promotion, not "can recruit Pumpkins!"
Princess: 7.5/10. +1 Actions for the entire team if leader, AND Holy insuring Undead Units can't do crap (which is the one thing Liches CAN'T slaughter)? YES PLEASE. Loses points for requiring a rare item.
Mermaid: 2/10. Bad.
Fairy: 5/10. Sylphs are great, but the way up there is kind of iffy, as Kiss isn't really reliable.
Angel: 6/10. See Fairies, only better overall. They're capable of actually killing things before final stage, but not great at it outside of Banish vs. Bosses. Seraphim of course work are your best Holy damage outside of Princess.
Hawkman: 5/10. When they become Eagle/Raven Men, they are a lot better, but Hawkmen themselves aren't great.
Demon: 2/10. Low Ali means they lack a perk of liberation that Angels have, and Dark damage is regularly way worse than Holy damage. Also you don't get Demon PC easily to recruit them on the spot like you can with Angels easily.
Platinum Dragon: 4/10. I find them adequate tanks who has passable offense though yeah, slow to grow is annoying.
Salamander: 4/10. Platinum Dragons but fire elemental.
Zombie Dragon: 3/10. Well, Tiamats are better than Gold Dragons or Red 2s, but significantly worse than final stages, and compete with Liches. YEah, that's 1 point less.
Wyvern: 5/10. High Flying monster, utility alone justifies using them.
Griffon: 5/10. See Wyvern, really.
Octopus: 3/10. Neat Gimmick, but you only get to use it so much.
Hellhound: 3/10. Ok early on, but they really don't last.
Pumpkin: 2/10. Pain in the ass to recruit, only so useful if you get one.
Giant: 5/10. Titans are good, other two kind of not...yeah average works.
Golem: 2/10. hey look it's a tank and-...oh crap, opponent has a Wizard :( This situation happens way too often for Golems to have any real purpose, and they don't even properly promote.
Ghost: 6/10. A nice crutch for getting through large waves of enemies without losing any damage, just avoid the Holy damage.
Skeleton: 6/10. Front Line version of Ghosts, more or less.
BONUS ROUND:
Mega Man 2 Weapons:
Mega Buster: 4/10. Going to agree that while normally I got 5/10 for tis by default, this game legitimately hands you something straight up better.
Air Shooter: 7/10. Nice AoE and hits vertical area, kills a few enemies pretty well too.
Atomic Fire: 1/10. one point for what it can do to some bosses, THAT'S IT.
Bubble Lead: 2/10. Useful in Wily 4, and I think it can kill those spring guys...that's about it.
Crash Bomb: 3/10. Some neat gimmick uses but limited ammo and not much on conventional use.
Leaf Shield: 6/10. Handy defensive tool, pity you can't move with it.
Metal Blade: 10/10. Not going to waste my time justifying this...
Quick Boomerang: 3/10. The only use this has on Mega Buster is slight vertical tolerance and killing spring guys. Otherwise, buster is better in most circumstances.
Time Stopper: 5/10. The fact that you can only fire it once before needing to refill hurts a lot of this weapons utility, so I can't justify giving it above this.
Item 1: 6/10. Good for what it is.
Item 2: 7/10. Helps skip some really annoying sections well and generally speeding through some areas.
Item 3: 4/10. Mostly good for conserving Item 1 Ammo, and little else.
-
Ogre Battle:
Destin (aka the Lord): 5/10. Definitely better then your average unit, but you have to deliberately keep his level low to get reputation up, which hurts. Evens out, I'll say.
Lans: 7/10. Carries a chunk of earlygame, and becomes your best paladin easily enough.
Warren: 6/10. Better then the average wizard, but not fantastic or anything.
Canopus: 7/10. See Super. Hawkmen recruiting is nice and his own Low Sky movement makes up for his substandard combat(compared to other named units, compared to generics he's FINE).
Gilbert: 6/10. Meh. Hits hard, but only two swings and is generally nothing special. +1 for coming with his flying buddies, though.
Ashe: 7/10. Lans recolor.
Lyon: 4/10. Gilbert recolor without the free flying buddies and costs money.
Aisha: 7/10. Heal all day.
Norn: 7/10. Heal all day.
Rauny: 7/10. Very good all around unit, has melee, has magic, has a bad movement type but oh well.
Tristan: 8/10. Wrecks shit.
Debonair: 8/10 I found him very slightly worse then Tristan? But not worse enough for less points.
Yushis: 5/10. Is okay? Not fantastic, but solid.
Saradin: 6/10. See Warren.
Slust: 8/10. Slightly better then Debonair and Tristan, but not enough for more points.
Fenril: 8/10. Slust recolor.
Fogel: 9/10. Wreck shit harder and is borderline immune to getting wrecked.
Galf: 1/10. No.
Deneb: 3/10. Theoretically has use, but no.
Paladin: 6/10. These guys carry your lategame, and as knights carry early. Not amazing, but the workhorses of your army no question.
Vampyre: 3/10. Tanky sure, but the gimmick grates on my nerves.
Werewolf: 5/10. Not as good as vamps at night, but they can at least MOVE while the sun is up.
Tigerman: 3/10. Werewolves minus.
Ninja Master: 7/10. The MT ninjutsu is pretty good, and they can frontrow just fine too. Low alignment is an issue, but eh.
Doll Master: 6/10. Gas cloud is nice.
Beast Master: 3/10. Non special ones are pretty meh.
Dragon Master: 1/10. No.
Samurai Master: 5/10. Paladin minus, imo.
Lich: 10/10. Boom.
Evil One: 1/10. No.
Muse: 6/10. Female paladin? Female paladin.
Monk: 7/10. Heal all day.
Witch: 3/10. Meh? I never liked them much as a PC. As an enemy unit, they're great at getting in the way, but don't really help with the whole killing things bit.
Princess: 9/10. Makes other people wreck things harder. So very good.
Mermaid: 2/10. I recall these being bad.
Fairy: 2/10. See above.
Angel: 4/10. Okay? Yushis is the only straight up good one.
Hawkman: 5/10. Earlygame fliers are very nice. Drop off hard late, but good enough early for a 5.
Demon: 1/10. No.
Platinum Dragon: Can't be assed to do monster ratings right now.
Salamander:
Zombie Dragon:
Wyvern:
Griffon:
Octopus:
Hellhound:
Pumpkin:
Giant:
Golem:
Ghost:
Skeleton:
BONUS ROUND:
Mega Man 2 Weapons:
Mega Buster: 5/10. Megabuster.
Air Shooter: 6/10. Has some sniping uses, once you get used to the spacing.
Atomic Fire: 2/10. Ew.
Bubble Lead: 2/10. Ew.
Crash Bomb: 5/10. The raw damage on these was p.good, iirc. Limited uses hold it back
Leaf Shield: 6/10. Does its job, does it well.
Metal Blade: 10/10. It only does everything.
Quick Boomerang: 4/10. Okay I guess.
Time Stopper: Only way I can survive quick lasers/10. Seriously, that's the only thing I use it for but it's damn near mandatory for that at my level of skill.
Item 1:
Item 2:
Item 3:
-
For those who haven't rated yet, this is your last minute...by which I mean you still have until tomorrow night...until the update occurs!
For those of you who have already rated, there are cookies on the table to the left.
-
Ogre Battle:
AVG STDEVA
Destin 6.2 1.1
Lans 6.8 0.27
Warren 7.3 0.97
Canopus 7 1.22
Gilbert 5.9 1.08
Ashe 6.8 0.45
Lyon 4.38 2.06
Aisha 6.3 1.2
Norn 6.3 1.2
Rauny 7.6 0.55
Tristan 8 0
Debonai: 8 0
Yushis 4.9 1.02
Saradin 8 1.12
Slust 8.2 0.27
Fenril 8.4 0.22
Fogel 8.9 0.22
Galf 1.2 0.27
Deneb N/A N/A
Standard Deviation of full cast: 1.82
Everyone else in Ogre Battle (namely generics) failed to get notable amount of scores. Frankly, I blame Dragon Masters being so bad that they were too intimidating to rate!
BONUS ROUND:
Mega Man 2 Weapons:
AVG STDEVA
Mega Buster 3.93 0.93
Air Shooter 6.43 0.53
Atomic Fire 1 0.5
Bubble Lead 2 0.5
Crash Bomb 4.79 1.35
Leaf Shield 6.93 0.93
Metal Blade 10 0
Quick Boomerang 3.43 0.98
Time Stopper 4.33 0.82
Item 1 5.4 0.89
Item 2 7.1 0.22
Item 3 3.6 1.14
Congrats to Metal Blade. I don't think I have to explain why.
This week, I have decided to punish you all for absolutely no good reason other than that I can with DOUBLE KOS-MOS!!!
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
Shion:
Miyuki:
Canaan:
Jr.:
Ziggy:
MOMO:
chaos:
Jin:
KOS-MOS:
Allen:
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier:
Haken:
Aschen:
Kaguya:
Suzuka:
Reiji:
Xiamou:
KOS-MOS:
-
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
Shion: 6/10.
Miyuki: 3/10. She uh... she's there to be another target really.
Canaan: 6/10. He's pretty much a cannon for that dungeon or so, not bad.
Jr.: 6/10.
Ziggy: 5/10.
MOMO: 7/10.
chaos: 5/10.
Jin: 6/10.
KOS-MOS: 7/10.
Allen: 2/10. Aside from it being allen, there's no real reason to swap him in during that segment.
I feel like I remember the temps better than the PCs. Weird.
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier: Haven't finished the game, but I did play enough to get all the characters so... I remember them all better than XS3 anyway?
Haken: 7/10. Main heavy hitter. Lots of good self-buffs.
Aschen: 5/10. Preeetttyyy much filler. Not bad filler, but filler.
Kaguya: 8/10. Cheessstoooooo apparently involves lots of healing now.
Suzuka: 4/10. I don't... see a point besides having a support slot before mechs/NxC show up.
Reiji: abstain. Haven't given him a fair shake.
Xiamou: 6/10. Xiamou Wave is useful enough on support everything else is irrelevant, but she's not super duper awesome or anything.
KOS-MOS: 7/10.
-
XS3 has good balance, but I'm not sure how much credit I can give it for that since the extra skills (aka the ones not in the stat topic) kind of handed out crucial abilities to everyone willy-nilly. Nearly everyone has MT healing, yay?
Shion: 6/10. MOMO with 2 fewer elements but having a usually unneeded break game.
Miyuki: 4/10. Exists.
Canaan: 5/10. Exists and is sort of okay.
Jr.: 5/10. Speedy Red Mage. Overtaker is pretty cool for awhile, too. Would be much better in a 3-character game, but as is, you can usually just swap in someone who focuses on the niche you need.
Ziggy: 6/10. Surprisingly solid. Huge durability, good damage, break game if you want it. Falls off at the very end what with his ultimates being weak and his final weapon so late as to be basically useless, but so it goes. (Go farm enemies on the final screen before the last boss, then leave the final dungeon? Really, XS3?)
MOMO: 7/10. Since it seemed like 70%+ of enemies had an elemental weakness, MOMO being able to blast all of said weaknesses was pretty good. Lategame she gets Blood Dancer, 'nuff said. Would probably be cast MVP if not for the rather notable frailty.
chaos: 3/10. The game's status whore. Unfortunately it's not usually worth your time vs. randoms and is usually immuned by bosses, and he's a tad frail. Probably much better on a challenge run. Underwhelming ultimates, too.
Jin: 7/10. Doesn't have Jr.'s flexibility, but whatever. Think Ayla vs. Crono - Jin is one-dimensional in all physical damage all the time, but he's tankier than Jr. and just as fast and hits notably harder. And neither CT nor XS3 really throw serious physical tanks at you where the "hit things harder" strat falls apart.
KOS-MOS: 7/10. Also insanely tanky, hits things really hard.
Allen: 2/10. Yeah he's funny but there's really no reason to ever use him, which makes sense for someone who's basically a civilian.
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Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier: very lazy ratings ho, now to wait for snow to yell at me for rating things wrong or something~
Haken: hits things pretty hard. 7/10
Aschen: warm body at worst. 4/10
Kaguya: has enough sp to power a small country, heal all the things, gets smashy. 7.5/10
Suzuka: uh mt com recovery. 4.5/10
Reiji: hits things pretty hard. 7/10
Xiamou: there's worse. 6/10
KOS-MOS: uh tanky backup healer but never gets smashy. 5/10
-
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
Shion Uzuki: 4/10. Crap offensive stats and only two magical elements to work with? *Flush.* The healing skillset is fine, but you only ever need one person with that level of support and MOMO covers it just fine. The physical game is perplexing, since break isn't a very good niche and she obviously doesn't have the stats for it to deal damage either. Everything she can do can be covered by someone who has better offensive stats as a rule of thumb.
Gaignun Kukai Jr.: 6.5/10. Magic is really the way to go for XS3 with its ridiculous wealth of enemy weakness and the oddly high mults on magic damage, and this puts Jr. in a great position considering he gets all elements to work with and third-best magic with the odd high-end spike here and there. Particularly, he can get his best weapon way earlier than anyone else with HaKox, which gives him game-best EAtk for a full, enormous dungeon and second-best mag for two more. Backup healing is unnecessary, but nice to have, and, as SnowFire noted, Overtaker is kinda cool (not an offensive boost at quite the level of even Heaven Tracker, but quite versatile at what it allows). His ST emphasis is an issue (he only gets notable MT with Fire - I refuse to deign any worth to his physical MT), but versatile, speedy (for whatever it's worth) red mage is pretty cool.
Ziggurat 8: 4.5/10. Kinda middling, but not all that bad? His damage is oddly decent (especially early) and he's very durable, but his resources need work and he's not so great at crowd control (none of the fighters are). The durability isn't all that useful either, since enemy offense in general fails pretty hardcore. He just kinda gets overshadowed by KOS-MOS and Jin, since he emphasizes durability above offense - losing trade in a game like XS3.
MOMO Mizrahi: 7.5/10. MVP in spite of the statistical suck. You'd think MOMO's egregious speed/durability combo would sink her ass, but: A) speed is pretty much irrelevant past turn one and battles usually go for longer than two turns; B) enemy offense, as noted above, is appalingly bad; C) EAtk is the god stat and she's game-best at it without breaking a sweat. As it is, she has the best skillset hands down, with MT offense, full elemental manipulation, all the healing you'd ever need and Blood Dancer to put a cherry on top of the offensive dynamo aspect.
chaos: 5.5/10. Second-best EAtk and a skillset that's in-between Jr. and MOMO gets you places, but only two elements to work with sucks. Likely above average anyway (Heaven Tracker is a solid offensive boost, at worst, and Beam/Ice isn't the worst combo you could muster for elemental reliance), and that's certainly the best he's ever been in this series by far.
Jin Uzuki: 5.5/10. The offensive edge on Jr. gets mitigated by not being able to hit weaknesses like he is, and honestly, unless you're KOS-MOS, magic > physicals. Otherwise, he's a good physical fighter with oddly versatile targetting and generally solid stats. Later on, he just can't compete with KOS-MOS, though, Blood Dancer is too good. Heaven Tracker tries, but.
KOS-MOS: 6.5/10. She has some of Ziggy's issues (resources and speed, mainly), but makes up for them with actual offensive versatility (can hit at least one elemental weakness, hits species weaknesses right and left) and also shares many of his strengths. Once she picks up Blood Dancer, she spikes ahead of the damage curve and never looks back to boot. Her start is a wee bit sketchy, but she soars pretty far ahead of the other physicallers once she gets going.
Miyuki Itsumi: DNR. wtf is this shit
Canaan: DNR. lol wat (okay, he's the best temp by far, but STILL).
Allen Ridgeley: DNR. wtfffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier:
Haken Browning: 8/10. He's quietly the game's MVP for about 85% of the game, pushing his worth in a dearth of subtle manners. Early on, his speed and Snipe are quite useful for dealing with randoms. Later on, he starts pushing his offensive potential with Valor and the mech skills, until he culminates into a full-on dynamo with Rampage Spectre spamming and generally great stats. Defensively, getting Alert is pretty much the best you could ask for, though it's kinda late. And his earlygame advantages -never- really stop mattering. He's one of those people you just keep trucking in the party without realizing how subtly good he is until the end. Gets outshone by Kaguya in the endgame, but even then, he's likely your #2 pick at that point.
Aschen Brodel: 4/10. She picks up nicely stat-wise later on and she gets some oddly strong normals later on, but her skillset is pretty sketchy - she gets the worse debuffs and never picks up a powerful offensive buff, which would keep her offense competitive. Well, early targettable healing is nice, since it helps keeping Kaguya's resources up in the initial stages of the game.
Kaguya Nanbu: 7.5/10. She's better in the end than Haken due to Miracle making her a complete monstrosity, but before that, she goes through quite a way. For most of the game, she has openly bad offense (I'm pretty sure she's game-worst until Miracle, and her normals are kinda awkward too), she's never fast and also sorta fragile, though Guard helps when it shows up. The support/healing skillset is quite good, though, and her game-best resource pool gets put to great use there. Once she gets the MT paralysis/poison skill, her worth on randoms suddenly spikes, and we all know what happens once she gets Miracle and her full MT damage skill. Always useful in her own ways.
Suzuka: 4.5/10. Suzuka's support skillset is pretty much inferior to Kaguya's on most relevant manners and she certainly doesn't have the offense to compete with her by the end either. Overkill speed guarantees she has some worth against randoms, at least, and Suzuka Trance can cheese some nasty earlygame surprises if you feel like taking risks, but otherwise she doesn't see much play. Oddly high damage on earlygame normals too, which keep her throughout the game, though that's a mixed blessing.
Reiji Arisu: 6/10. He represents a huge damage spike against bosses on join and remains that way until people start picking up their own offensive buffs, but that's like 1/3 of the game later - so, his smash is pretty valuable. Not to mention he stays at game-best damage all the way through (the gap just gradually closes by). Awful speed and somewhat suspect durability and resources for most of the game mean he can only do so much, though, and his normals openly suck (his offense is actually saved by his attack and Soul). Regardless, probably one of the top four to fill your party with by endgame.
Xiamou: 7/10. Good resources, pretty fast for the vast majority of the game and gets both offensive and defensive party options to play with (Uranai+Barrier is a cool combo if you feel like playing with it, Attune is very valuable and she even gets Valor not long after Haken does). Snipe off her speed also lets her play a ghetto earlygame Haken mimicry and she gets very good, easy normals to work with (Xiaomu Nintendo is one of the game's best normals hands down). Durability sucks, though, and unlike everybody else, she gets nothing like Steady/Guard/Alert to mitigate that. #3 PC by endgame and probably shuffling #2 and #3 positions throughout, though.
KOS-MOS: 5.5/10. Your most durable support character, with strong normals (though tricky to balance out for maximum damage) and potent, affordable MT healing with Bond. Attune is cool and, once she finally learns it, Glare is pure evil. Problem is she never gets anything like Valor or Soul to truly make her base attack shine, and she's pretty slow. Still worth a party slot often enough.
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2 Day warning + OH CRAP I HAVE NOT DONE THIS YET!!! Post, etc.
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
Shion: 5/10. Just kind of generic.
Miyuki: 2/10. Sucks.
Canaan: 5/10. Good for the one dungeon he's in...
Jr.: 5/10. See Shion.
Ziggy: 4/10. I remember him being kind of unimpressive.
MOMO: 7/10. Blood Dancer + Good Magic, yep.
chaos: 4/10. See Ziggy.
Jin: 6/10. Solid.
KOS-MOS: 7/10. Blood Dancer + Good MT damage the entire game.
Allen: 2/10. Much as I want Allen to be better...yeah, no.
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier:
Haken: 8/10. Starts off decent enough, gets gradually better as game goes on, and Rampage Phantom is a nice extra super he can whip out using different resources.
Aschen: 4/10. Filler. She's not awful, but really no reason to use her once you get the NxC crew..
Kaguya: 7/10. Solid support character whose competent enough at other areas. Will note that the healer thing I didn't find as big a deal as other PCs can cover that with the right set ups, for all that she is still the best.
Suzuka: 3/10. Unimpressive. Her support stuff I found replace-able by items or other characters, her attacks are awkward, and she seemed to be worse on damage and accuracy than most characters.
Reiji: 8/10. I found his damage to be about as high as his offense goes, maybe I just found a good combo with him? Also has Faith for a 2ndary Healer, and his 2x attack makes him ideal for finishing off bosses.
Xiamou: 6/10. She's solid but doesn't really stand out; felt like a Reiji-lite with a few other perks (like full status immunity to team for a few turns) that he didn't have. Overall worse.
KOS-MOS: 6/10. Also "just kind of solid" but nothing special otherwise. Mostly fighting over that 4th slot with Xiamou, and depends on what you want more.
-
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
Shion: 5/10
Miyuki: -
Canaan: -
Jr.: 6/10
Ziggy: 4/10
MOMO: 7.5/10
chaos: 2/10
Jin: 7/10
KOS-MOS: 8.5/10
Allen: -
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier:
Haken: 7.5/10
Aschen: 3.5/10
Kaguya: 8.5/10
Suzuka: 4/10
Reiji: 6.5/10
Xiamou: 7/10
KOS-MOS: 6.5/10
-
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
Shion: 5/10. Exists. I ended up using her at the end because the game practically threw her ultimate weapon at me and the mages all blur together anyway.
Miyuki: Pass.
Canaan: Pass.
Jr.: 5.5/10. Kneejerk was 5, but I'll give him a bonus half point if his ultimate weapon situation is as Snow describes.
Ziggy: 4.5/10. Probably the worst of the fighter PCs but not bad by any mens. It'd help him if I valued break more, or if there wasn't a universal spell which could do it if you decided you cared. Nice HP at least.
MOMO: 7.5/10. Best magic, and Blood Dancer.
chaos: 4/10. Okay at slinging magic but rarely one of your best options.
Jin: 6/10. Solid fighter type, hits about as hard as anyone.
KOS-MOS: 7.5/10. Jin but more durable, a bit more MT IIRC, and of course Blood Dancer? Eh sure I'll leave her and MOMO tied.
Allen: 2/10. There is worse.
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier:
Haken: 7.5/10. Good all-around. Great damage late, but has speed, stats in general, and a solid skillset throughout.
Aschen: 4/10. Filler. Code DTD bugged me enough to drop her and use her basically never so I only really have a sense of her earlygame, though.
Kaguya: 7/10. Great late, decent throughout due to the badass healing and not being bad at either damage or durability like you'd expect.
Suzuka: 4/10. Speed's good, free Joss Sticks are good. I didn't like her attacks at all though.
Reiji: 6/10. I didn't find him as damaging as some people apparently, but Soul makes him pretty good when that comes into play anyway.
Xiamou: 6.5/10. Pretty generically good, Valor and Attune and decent enough stats.
KOS-MOS: 6/10. Glare's outstanding at least. Kinda average otherwise.
-
You know, it's times like this I can only think of one thing to say!
...which is exactly why I am NOT going to say it!
Xenosaga 3: Also Spracht Zarathustra:
AVG STDEVA
Shion 5.33 0.82
Miyuki N/A N/A
Canaan N/A N/A
Jr. 5.67 0.61
Ziggy 4.67 0.75
MOMO 7.25 0.27
chaos 3.92 1.28
Jin 6.25 0.61
KOS-MOS 7.25 0.69
Allen N/A N/A
Standard Deviation of Full Cast: 1.35
Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier:
AVG STDEVA
Haken 7.5 0.45
Aschen 4.25 0.88
Kaguya 7.58 0.58
Suzuka 4 0.55
Reiji 6.7 0.84
Xiamou 6.42 0.49
KOS-MOS 6 0.71
Standard Deviation of Full Cast: 1.44
Best Rating of this Session: Kaguya w/ 7.58
Worst Rating of this Session: chaos w/ 3.91
AND NOW IT'S TIME TO DO!!!! ...only one cast...because reasons...
Wild ARMs XF:
Clarissa:
Felius:
Labyrinthia:
Tony:
Levin:
Ragnar:
Alexia:
Secutor:
Elementalist:
Fantastica:
Gadgeteer:
Sentinel:
Sacred Slayer:
Excavator:
Geomancer:
Berserker:
Enigmancer:
Strider:
Grappler:
Nightstalker:
Emulator:
Extremist:
High Cavalier:
And with that...I have been completely unwitty in this post and I am sorry for wasting your time.
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Wild ARMs XF:
Clarissa: 8.5/10. Really awesome skillset and damage.
Felius: 3.5/10. Ugh, I guess. Speed and Upper Hand are something, as is having high weight on his gear.
Labyrinthia: 5/10. The good: Thunder and revival. The bad: Those stats. They *suck*.
Tony: 1/10. Point for the swamp map early.
Levin: 8/10. Freaking awesome. Speed is awesome, as is his cancel attack.
RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT: 5/10. He's okay? I found Stormrider kind of underwhelming, but it had it's uses.
Alexia: 7/10. Made for Strider (Trail and Dropkick). Has some limitation due to that speed, but oh wellw.
Secutor: 5/10. Solid slugger and shields rule, but it's not worth the CP unless you'ore hitting those birds up.
Elementalist: 8.5/10. Killer stats and gear.
Fantastica: 3/10. Didn't find much use for them.
Gadgeteer: 4/10. Or them. I know they're good on paper, just blah.
Sentinel: 3.5/10. Defense is something, as is ZOC. I'm underwhelmed otherwise.
Sacred Slayer: 8/10. That skillset rules, as does widespread. Those stats don't rule.
Excavator: 2/10. *flush* Okay on Levin at first, that's it.
Geomancer: 1/10. Awful.
Berserker: 7/10. Good move and offense. I dig.
Enigmancer: 4/10. IFF's something? Found them kinda bad outside of that.
Strider: 7.5/10. Dropkick is absolute insanity late, it makes Alexia and Felius useful later on.
Grappler: 6/10. Worth this for accelerator alone. Throw's neat, though I didn't use it much.
Nightstalker: 7/10. That speed is ^_^.
Emulator: 3/10. Blah, didn't find them good at all, thought physical classes had the upper edge late in XF.
Extremist: 6/10. Mostly remember the nutso offense and not much else.
High Cavalier: 2/10. A point for Intrude I guess? I found them to be the worst of the final classes.
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Clarissa: 8.5/10. Sacrifice cuts through all defences and has monstrous power making it a go-to attack for dealing with anything tough. Beyond that she has good magic, speed, and two other good skills in Rob Turn and Encourage.
Felius: 3.5/10. Upper Hand is pretty cool, but meh to the stat build and generally everything else about his class.
Labyrinthia: 4/10. Situationally useful with Warp and Revive early, kinda meh otherwise.
Tony: 1.5/10. Half point for being so good in the swamp. Terrible otherwise.
Levin: 8/10. Execrate, Blast, good speed, 5 innate move. I'm not even a big fan of Cancel Strike but if you twink for it, it is great at what it does. Overall solid without being totally overwhelming at anything.
Ragnar: 5/10. Orbital Ring is cool, Hyper is occasionally useful as well.
Alexia: 6/10. Trail and Drop Kick do a heck of a lot for her, first strike and/or Exhuaustion Strike are useful only rarely but great when they are, GT physical is nice, Strong Heart helps offset the bad speed some. Clearly worse than the main two power PCs though.
Secutor: 6.5/10. Shields and any game-best atk, any physical build relies on this to some extent, even if just as a carrier for other tools.
Elementalist: 8/10. Blows everything up. Falls off late some, except that you use books FOREVER (and they're relatively easy to get) so the class gets credit for that, and Mag+25% if you get it. Basically, secutor but helps out mages instead of fighters, and has more accessable equips instead of shields.
Fantastica: 7/10. What Rush does to so many skills is so good. Slow Down and MP damage are good for bosses, too.
Gadgeteer: 5/10. Items are kinda outclassed by Heal at the healing job, I think, though Mystic is nice. Attack items can work okay but are kinda costly for a long time and only get nasty if you combine the Item Effect Up skill with a mage class.
Sentinel: 3.5/10. They have some situational use. Heavy Strike is your early physical beatstick and def is worth... something, as is weight, though neither are great. Would be a lot better if the EQ wasn't so hard to get. The bad speed doesn't help either.
Sacred Slayer: 8/10. Bad speed, bad offence, but yeesh, Widespread is an amazing capstone skill which can even justify them somewhat as a carrier (never mind if you master it), and both Heal and Turn Shift are terrific.
Excavator: 2/10. Well they're mobile, and have Switch. But other classes (Geomancer and Berserker) end up more worth it for mobility anyway, while not failing it up otherwise.
Geomancer: 5/10. Great armour, and Crisis Move Up is nice. Other stats aren't... horrid or anything.
Berserker: 4.5/10. I don't have too much to say about them. They're mobile! Sometimes. Spears are bad which neuters their otherwise good attack skills and stats, though. If you get it, Valiant's great, but you aren't getting it without grinding or the C3 kappa fight.
Enigmancer: 7.5/10. Devastate is outstanding, Dispel is great too (since it's status healing as well), and they're the 4-move mage midgame.
Strider: 6/10. Drop Kick is excellent, and every single other skill in Strider OC is useful too. AIM+25 is also very nice but kinda costly for what it is. You don't make physical builds without both Secutor and Strider, so they get the two highest scores from that set of classes.
Grappler: 3.5/10. Fairly situational. Accelerate's a nice cheap pickup although the weird unreliable nature of it makes me not a huge fan. Their skills being melee hurts, but you can sometimes do some good things with them, especially on someone with IFF.
Nightstalker: 4/10. They're fast. Unfortunately RFX+25 is very difficult to get and as a carrier the low HP and offensive stats hold them back.
Emulator: 9/10. Best class in the game, and I'd see them even higher if their skills didn't take effort to get. It's still a low amount of effort by blue mage standards, though (just need to drain enemies encountered in story fights, and you can see which ones have skills), and the skillset is ridiculous. Accurate petrify and various other statuses? 6-range elemental spells, including lightning, with a passive which boosts their damage against weakness? None of these even need Rush? WTF? Crushes almost all humans and mechs with elemeents, crushes monsters (or humans really) with status, crushes bosses with one of gravity or status. Pretty much the only things they aren't an outstanding choice against are like the two bosses who immune all their tricks, then they "merely" bring to the table 4 move and good magic, along with Action Replay to beat down any boss you have surrounded. In every challenge I've done (and I've done three), they've dominated the lategame to a ridiculous extent.
Extremist: 5/10. Evade is much better than def or res, so this is secretly the game's tank class. Debilitate's nice too, and the Batman hook has some situational use when there are pits around. Nutso offence isn't something they have unless you grind chaoses though since there otherwise literally isn't enough CSP left in the game after they join to master the class.
High Cavalier: 3/10. Remain is a nice tool with Widespread sometimes, and Intrude is a nice trump card and of course essential for Ragu, HP is also pretty cool. Unfortunately the rest of their stats are kinda bleh and even their OC tends to feel kinda situational.
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Clarissa: 9/10. Sacrifice & Turn Steal are insane but both have a notable weakness (nuking HP, can miss). Gun kinda sucks but is long-range which is relevant, and Encourage is surprisingly solid.
Felius: 3/10. Felius is fine, but he's also the most replaceable by a random soldier. Upper Hand & Piercing weapons, sure.
Labyrinthia: 5/10. You need her for the revival, & blasting stuff with Lightning can be relevant.
Tony: 1/10. Uh his high MOV means he can go run around collecting treasure.
Levin: 9/10. The best Skrimisher ever. Cancel Strike is great and trivializes lots of bosses. Blast & Rushing Beat means he hits both defenses for good damage. Great Speed & Move. Insanely fun to use.
Ragnar: 6/10. Take Felius and add speed, damage, and some group-targetting. Smash.
Alexia: 3/10. That speed. That move. THAT SPEED. (I didn't use Strider with her, but in retrospect, she'd probably at least make 4/10 using that combo... which I didn't. Oh well.)
Secutor: 7/10. Hits things hard, has a shield.
Elementalist: 8/10. The damage, it hurts. Side rant: Why did XF bother to have 4 different elemental resistances and all when the two main PC classes that can inflict elemental damage, Elementalist & Emulator, hit all 4? It ends up being basically "roll a die to see how big the damage bonus is for elemental magic." Pretty lame, kills the whole fun of elements if you always have all or none.
Fantastica: 3/10. Fantastica OC is great - Slow Down mostly, Rush a little, and like all OCs is super-cheap to get. Run away otherwise.
Gadgeteer: 6/10. I liked Decelerate, and Item Healing is strong even if the UI for keeping track of them is terribad.
Sentinel: 3/10. Uh DEF +25% is easy to get, at least, which is why I even bothered with the class.
Sacred Slayer: 8/10. See Elf, Widespread & Heal & Turn Shift are fantastic even if everything else is crap.
Excavator: 2/10. Puzzle map go. Okay and Switch cheese I guess.
Geomancer: 2/10. I recall them being bad and their OC as being pointless.
Berserker: 3/10. I acknowledge the theoretical use and Valiant is apparently totally broken, but I hate having to run in straight lines. THat's just annoying and makes you feel like you have to plan 2 moves ahead.
Enigmancer: 3/10. Why bother with non-elemental magic when everyone has an elemental weakness? (Aside from the one close-quarters map that is the blatant use-Engimancers here one, that also nicely enough lets you figure that out yourself rather than having Labby tell you.)
Strider: N/A - Very underwhelming when I used it, but I apparently used Strider totally wrong, so uh awaiting a replay I guess.
Grappler: 6/10. They're a FUNNY class at the least, which gets them +1. Accelerate is cheap and easy to get and almost equivalent to RFX+25%, and the positioning game from throwing dudes around is actually notably useful on a few maps, and is helpful in general for isolating enemies for, say, execution via Formation Arts.
Nightstalker: 6/10. RFX+25% is too damn late and their weapon could be better, but reflex is kind of the god stat, so the score is only going so low here.
Emulator: Blue Mage / 10 - Seemed totally broken to me and simultaneously parasitic and annoying, since you have to basically set an Emulator forever in order to get the Downloads off. Still, Elementalist that can move *alone* makes it an 8/10 class if you bother, and then it randomly gets Lightning & status & random other stuff. No vote since I didn't use it, but "didn't use it because it seemed too good" is usually an endorsement.
Extremist: 5/10. Excavators who can hold up in a fight, sure.
High Cavalier: 3/10. Grab their OC then run. See Fantastica pretty much.
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Wild ARMs XF:
Clarissa: 7/10 I got less use out of her core stuff than others, but she is good for all the reasons mentioned.
Felius: 3/10 Yeah he is pretty bad.
Labyrinthia: 5/10 Speed kills her late game sadly, 25% magic damage booster makes her hit hard when she does go, but something needs to be around to kill, Lightning needed 1 more range.
Tony: 1/10 wow so much strong
Levin: 8/10 All the Elf reasons plus Move through enemies. Just a dominant staple party member.
Ragnar: 5/10 That accuracy is annoying as shit but he is kind of key to making physical set ups competitive with just blowing shit up with Magic. Hyper probably should be on a base class. I should have used him as a Fantastica to buff the party instead of buffing himself (that makes Hyper feel like it needs longer duration).
Alexia: 5/10 I apparently used her wrong but wasn't as underwhelmed? Getting faster as the battle goes on is nice. I think it is a cute mechanic to feed back through equipment weight. It is way too dense and impenetrable to the player to work out the nitty gritty easily but its fun regardless. Her swords are pretty okay.
Secutor: 6/10 Decent equips, functional skills, excellent carrier just by virtue of efficiency of CP by having so many core skills inherent, add in good stats and you have the best of the Physical. Here is the point where I not that I think the physical game in WA:XF is entirely inferior to blowing shit up with Magic.
Elementalist: 9/10 When half my party was using Books and I decided that I needed to build another one it really solidified how dominant magic is to me. Unlike Secutor they aren't so dominant because they are a good carrier, they are this good because for the entire game you want their Equipment skill. For a ton of the game you can slap on that OC a as a filler as well because it will perform. The only time it falls off is when you unlock Emulator and grind up the skills and Emulator is 5 kinds of stupid. Subtly dominant, but completely dominant nonetheless.
Fantastica: 7/10 I give this rating without really having used them much. I didn't realize how good Rush was for the longest time and hadn't really used them until the game threw the boss at me that is all like "Now everyone can throw on that Fantastica OC they have lying around and smash this" and I was just in a wait wat position. Rush is good, Slow Down is great and then the game brute forces the skill set into relevance and goddamned if it doesn't work.
Gadgeteer: 4/10 I might be petty here, but they lose a point at least for needing their Mastery to really use so many fucking things in this game. Hi-Item or whatever they called it needed to be a class skill (probably earlier than last one!) let alone the fucking mastery on the class. Fuck you Gadgeteer I won't deal with you taking a whole chunk of gameplay hostage with the demands of using you as a carrier.
Sentinel: 3/10 I didn't want to put them this low, but they need to be a solid -3 on Secutor, so it goes.
Sacred Slayer: 8/10 Sacred Slayer is duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumb. Slap on a book and sure your damage still isn't great but the AoE is worth it. It making that unit capable of healing and damaging is just nuts.
Excavator: 2/10 They are Tony but can equip skills to try and stay relevant.
Geomancer: 4/10 I hate them less than I did when I first posted about them. Their armour really IS pretty good and their stats are okay. They are the opposite of the Fantastica in that the game actively goes out of its way to make the skills shitty. Every map should have had leypoints.
Berserker: 4.5/10 What did elf say? Sure. That works.
Enigmancer: 6/10 IFF is nice. They are a good carrier. They are a mage class.
Strider: 5/10 Apparently they are good? I used them a bit, they were doable.
Grappler: 3/10 Better than Excavator. Too finnicky to use. More finnicky than Berserker in my opinion.
Nightstalker: 4.5/10 RFX +25% is amazing if you can stick with it to get there and is like 3 of those points. I wanted to like these guys, but the skills suck and the damage is just too low. A shame because the weapon formula could have been fun.
Emulator: 9/10 The other half of Elementalist domination. Otherwise see everything other people have said Action replay all the stupid way to beat a boss down QUICK MAGES SWARM THE BOSS IN MELEE.
Extremist: 4/10 blech. They are good at what they do and what they do is clunky and obtuse. Secretly the game's tank class is appropriate because it is so opaque.
High Cavalier: 3/10 I had Alexia spend a lot of time here and in Sacred Slayer and this worked out quite well as described by Elves. I should have done that with Ragnar instead to try and squeeze more use out of Hyper. With mages through, she mostly hung back and hasted herself and Labrynthia to keep themselves relevant. What I am saying is their OC is worth 3 points.
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Doing this for my own reference, since I never actually rated the game back when we did it in 2011.
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10. He's the best PC in the game. The number of kills he requires for his L3 is a drawback (320 vs like 140 for the next PC?) and his L2's aren't very good. It's a pretty small quibble though.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Missing Score requires much more effort than I'm willing to put in. His limits I remember being pretty typical smash.
Tifa Lockheart: 5.5/10. Weird case. Bad earlygame. Tifa then gets the powersoul, which is pretty smashy if you DS her. Endgame is okay. Premium Heart is pretty bad for an ultimate but her L4 limit hits hard and FF7 skews more physical towards the end of the game.
Aeris Gainsborough: 5/10. She has really excellent limits besides her 2-1 (Fuck that one so badly). Princess Guard's too late to matter.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10. Half a point for the Seraph Comb, minus half a point for a bad final limit.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6.5/10. Midgame's a little scrubby, but the endgame is nuts. The Conformer is hands down the best weapon in FF7, and she has some other nifty options late too.
Cait Sith: 4/10. Better stats and weapons than Vincent, but limits are scrubby.
Vincent Valentine: 3/10. Bad weapons and limits.
Cid Highwind: 6/10. Killer weapons is enough to get him third. The Scimtar is a triple weapon (The only other one being a fucking pain in the ass to get) and he has the Dragoon Lance on D1 as well. He also has a linked double weapon which is very cool. His stats are pretty average and him joining late sucks, but it's not hard to get him a bunch of kills with Beta or Aqualung.
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Clarissa Arwin: 8.5/10. She has all the stats in the right places for magical builds as a rule of thumb (and magic pretty much dominates XF outside of the very endgame, and even so it's still high-profile). Dandelion OC is hands down one of the best in the game and her equips are also decent. Physical builds are kinda sketchy for her, but Strahl Gewehr itself has uses.
Felius Arwin: 3.5/10. Just kinda sucks. High strength, but sketchy equips and skillset, and the other stats need work. As a rule of thumb, physical builds in XF take a lot of work for relatively little return and Felius has the least interesting unique tools for one.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth: 4.5/10. She's sorta jeigany in that her wealth of worth really lies in the early game. Arcanist OC is all kinds of cool (Warp is godlike, Replica is fun, Revive is quite useful and even Lightning has its uses) and the skills in the class are also quite interesting, but Labby's egregious stat spread just sorta puts everything to waste. Her oddball OC still finds its niches every now and then even once her stats start fucking her up, at least.
Tony: 1.5/10. Useful solely on C1 until you get past the swamp and a full party. Past that, complete waste.
Levin Brenton: 8/10. Sort of a mirror to Clarissa. Faster, deeper resources and more mobile, but worse equips, less amazing OC and, most important of all, his offensive stats aren't all that good - particularly magic, which kinda wastes Blast's mult and P properties. Still, his utility mix is really good (Execrate+Widespread Emulator OC, for instance, is one of the most broken combos you could ever muster) and he has better options for physical builds than Clarissa.
RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT: 5/10. He could have the best build for physical setups among the uniques, but the accuracy issues speak against him pretty notably. Particularly, he borderline -needs- to land AIM +25% to be viable long-term unless you enjoy casting Invoke on him every turn (and your Fantastica OC carriers certainly will have better things to do than baby Ragnar around). On the other hand, Hyper's one hell of a buff for physical fighters and keeps him competitive enough.
Alexia Lynn Elesius: 6/10. What a neat, fundamentally flawed yet strangely useful build. Speed is trash, but her weight game works beautifully with Strider OC and she can spend little to no time in the class due to not needing the AIM boosting ever. Past that, her generall skill build is very good, her equips are solid and she makes the most out of physical builds overall. I'd care more about the trashy speed if speed in a tactics-based game wasn't rendered less important than move (and Strider OC fixes any problems she might ever have getting into the frontlines right there -AND- synergizes into her oddball speed game).
Secutor: 6.5/10. The starting point for every single viable physical build out there. The EQ is good stuff (axes are really impressive for damage if you can mitigate the accuracy problems, shields are great and even work into offensive padding for specific builds), the strength is excellent and Atk +25% is amazing, making it even a prime physical carrier. The OC sorta underwhelms me, but them's the breaks.
Elementalist: 8.5/10. Like Secutor, the starting point for all viable magical builds, but to an even more dominating degree. No mage build worth its salt goes without Elementalist EQ -at the very least- because books are crazy good. The OC is very one-dimensional but very good for the vast majority of the game too, and, of course, if you can, picking up Mag +25% is golden. The bases are good enough to keep it a solid choice for a carrier for a long time to boot, but staying in the class isn't a problem, especially considering it's a basic job. Paves the way for XF's magical dominance quite overwhelmingly.
Fantastica: 7/10. As shoddy as the class itself may be (and it actually isn't -that- much, at worst, Fantastica EQ covers some interesting niches and you don't need to stay that long in it due to innate CSP boosting), the OC is utterly godlike. Rush alone does wonders to huge chunks of the game's skills and Invoke is a pretty good boost to any physical fighter you carry around. Slow Down and MP busting also round out the utility. That OC alone makes the class worth staying in for a while and it should be passed around like candy.
Gadgeteer: 4.5/10. Its worth largely relies on mastering the damned class and keeping up with its higher-end items, which isn't all that great, especially since, speed aside, Gadgy offers little as a carrier. If you do, though, once you set up some extra magey tools like Elem EQ, it's quite powerful. It's still rather limited no matter what - and the non-item resources sorta need work to boot. Strange class.
Sentinel: 3.5/10. Well, Heavy Strike is nice and weight is kinda cool for Strider OC! The EQ really needed to be easier to get, though, and the speed quite underwhelms me, especially when it's usually bereft of Alexia's speed gaming shenanigans.
Sacred Slayer: 8/10. The class is painful to stay in, but holy -shit- what a skill pool. Sacred Slayer OC is horrendously overpowered (seriously, what's up with those mults on Heal? Fragile is very good too and Turn Shift is seven kinds of broken), Widespread is godlike (alone making the class worth considering as a carrier in spite of the crap stats) and even the EQ is pretty good (strong armors, mainly). The stats are hideous otherwise, but the skillset is overcentralizing as fuck, also being a fundamental stepping stone for dominating mage builds on both offense and utility.
Excavator: 2/10. Uh, they have move and speed and ranged physicals! Too bad about the terrible OC (useful only for synergizing with Gadgeteer and some gimmick battles) and bad offense.
Geomancer: 4.5/10. Kinda bad. Geomancer armor is very good and the attack is decent, but that OC is terrible outside highly niche uses and leypoint manipulation is generally very rarely useful.
Berserker: 5.5/10. Spears suck and kinda hurt an otherwise interesting skillset, but I kinda like the mobility and stats. It's a strange, not always practical, but fun physical carrier that can make interesting waves with the right setup.
Enigmancer: 7.5/10. Nice carrier mage class with the best general stat spread (good magic, best speed out of the dedicated mages and four move) and a great mesh of class skills and OC. Dispel alone is great for being your only practical status/stat-busting healing tool, Devastate is pretty cool for on-the-go crowd control that meshes beautifully with Rush and IFF and Elem EQ fixes the kinda sketchy weaponry right there. Durability is particularly trashy, but you can't have everything.
Strider: 6/10. Drop Kick ALONE makes Strider OC borderline unskippable for physical builds (good mult+ranged damage physical classes -badly- need in general? YES PLEASE), and all the skills on it are useful for what they are. Aim +25% also increases the viability on a lot of builds, though that's not a simple acquisition. The class itself isn't so hot, but it has its perks and, generally, you don't skip both Secutor and Strider for your physical setups. Secutor mostly for stats and equips, Strider mostly for skills. Works.
Grappler: 4/10. I don't really like Accelerator due to how it unstabilizes long-term strategies with its unreliability, but it's a pretty good skill for its cost. Damage is okay, but has its issues and the class itself is sketchy. Positioning shenanigans are kinda cool when you can put them to use, but they're not viable without IFF, and that's poor synergy all around.
Nightstalker: 4/10. Six Shooter can get increasingly nuts with Invoke setups, but that's only one skill and not versatile. Rest of the skillset is hit or miss and its carrier possibilities (it's such a goddamn fast class) get mitigated by the horrible offensive stat spread. I usually grab Six Shooter and run away (you don't even get enough CSP to master RFX +25% in the game sans grinding or extreme CSP manipulation). Still, goddamn that speed.
Emulator: 9/10. Holy crap is this class broken. Exploit Weakness on a class that gets ALL elements at 6 range and P properties -and- high Mag, powerful status whoring, Action Replay for specific boss-mangling shenanigans, gravity for bosses, four move and jesus christ what the -fuck-. The only thing that even keeps this remotely in check is the moderate effort you have to take to grab the skillset - and maybe the subpar speed, but that's not too bad with the threat range on their stuff. Past that, though, you're golden. Magic honestly dominates XF and Emulator's the shining capstone.
Extremist: 5.5/10. Command Critical is oddly good under certain setups (in particular, Invoke+Command Critical Six Shooter can net you utterly gross damage figures) and Extremist makes an oddly capable carrier mostly due to good defensive stats (mainly badass evade and nice HP) and the second-best skillset in a physical class (High Slugger is very solid, Anchor Hook is sorta cool, Debilitate is excellent). Nutso offense doesn't come from its bases (in particular, Scimitars are underwhelming weapons), but it makes one of the best Six Shooter users due to Command Critical, which compounds nicely with Invoke at least. Pretty much the to-go physical class to carry the cool physical stuff your game-long fighter built up in my eyes.
High Cavalier: 3/10. You'd expect a skillset with Quicken and Intrude on a Wild ARMs game to be badass, but wow is High Cavalier willing to prove you wrong. The HP is good and both Remain and Intrude have uses, but the rest of the OC is a waste and the class itself has nothing else interesting (MAG-based weaponry doesn't work in practice, its carrier stats don't impress much at all). Pick up Intrude and run away, if -that- much.
Come to think of it, the class dynamics in XF kinda prize themselves in being opaque and weirdly nuanced. Hit or miss philosophy, but goddamn do I love this kind of approach when it's done in-depth like this. It's almost like nearly every class is the weird little thing in the catalogue.
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Might as well get this up to fill out now that I've gotten the last set of classes. May be subject to change
Wild ARMs XF:
Clarissa: Hello I am a speedy mage with a ridiculous nuke and some other good support stuff. 8.5/10
Felius: uh Upper Hand is kind of cool I guess, too bad about the rest. 3/10
Labyrinthia: way to waste a cool skillset with those stats miss very capable woman. 4/10
Tony: so resist very move such strong wow. 1/10
Levin: Well the skillset is good at what it does but god does he want a better weapon type because tonfas suck at like everything. The class is otherwise pretty neat. 8/10
RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT: oh wow boomerangs suck. Hyper Attack is great of course and earns him like most of this score but otherwise I'm not a fan. 5/10
Alexia: Apparently I've been using her right but haven't been as impressed? At least she has every other stat except speed and works well with Strider OC as others have noted but that speed is *garbage* to start out with. 5/10
Secutor: Yeah they are good at what they do, but WAXF went to mage dominance school. 6.5/10
Elementalist: holy crap books are duuuuuumb and their EQ is the second thing in, never mind getting the rest of their stuff, run half your team as mages, regret nothing. 8.5/10
Fantastica: The OC is great and earns them like all of this score here. Rush and Slow Down are amazing and Invoke has its uses. The rest of the class is pretty blarghe but it's kind of irrelevent when the OC is as easy to grab as it is. 6/10
Gadgeteer: uh they're fast at least. Way too many hoops to jump through for my liking though, Hi-Item probably should've been a class skill rather than their mastery. 3/10
Sentinel: uh they have an okay OC at least. I guess they have armor but their EQ isn't worth the wait. 3/10
Sacred Slayer: wow sacred slayer is duuuuuuuumb, widespread is totally worth putting up with those stats, as is the OC. 8/10
Excavator: Less worthless than Tony, does it want a cookie. 1.5/10
Geomancer: I guess if you want to sit around in it for five class levels the armor is alright? Not really a fan of doing that, though. 3.5/10
Berserker: I loathe forced straight-line movement and the lameness of spears. They have their good points but they don't really make me care enough to want to put up with the class more than necessary. 4/10
Enigmancer: I like the MAG/RFX/MOV combo and the OC is alright enough. IFF is pretty great as well. They don't make huge waves but they are a strong enough dedicated carrier class. 7/10
Strider: Strider OC rules and should be passed out like candy to every fighter you have. The class itself I am more lukewarm on but at least it is decently mobile while not being incompetent like Excavator and AIM+25% is nice enough if you care to grab it. 6/10
Grappler: They seem really situational? Their skills seemed nice enough when the maps let them work but they don't always seem to do that. 4/10
Nightstalker: Well they're fast and Six-Shooter is disgusting when you set up for it. Most everything else about the class sucks though. 4/10
Emulator: wtf emulator is duuuuuuuuuuuuuumb. what is that skillset, never mind what happens if you grab the rest of their stuff. 9/10
Extremist: They are an okay carrier with an okay skillset. Unless you master the class they are not anything more than that. 5.5/10
High Cavalier: lolwut. 3/10
-
Clarissa: 9/10.
Felius: 4/10.
Labyrinthia: 5/10.
Tony: 1/10.
Levin: 8/10.
Ragnar: 6/10
Alexia: 5/10.
Secutor: 6/10.
Elementalist: 8/10.
Fantastica: 7/10.
Gadgeteer: 4.5/10.
Sentinel: 2/10.
Sacred Slayer: 8/10.
Excavator: 2/10.
Geomancer: 3/10.
Berserker: 6/10.
Enigmancer: 7.5/10.
Strider: 5/10.
Grappler: 3/10.
Nightstalker: 4/10. Clarissa is a really good one!
Emulator: 9/10.
Extremist: 3.5/10.
High Cavalier: 3/10.
-
2 Day warning + Convenient Meeple Ratings!
I don't remember generics well enough to feel confident about rating them, so I'll rate just the PCs.
Clarissa: 8/10. Good enough at what she does.
Felius: 4/10. Just kind of eh.
Labyrinthia: 3/10. Never really found her that good. Her gimmicks didn't really stand out.
Tony: 1/10. Useful for like one map then never again.
Levin: 7/10. Blast is nice, and Cancel Strike can be a Rob Turn variant.
Ragnar: 5/10. Passable.
Alexia: 6/10. Remember her being a strong physical character with Eskender Bay as an extra late game perk so yeah.
-
Wild ARMs XF: See Meeple
Clarissa: 8/10
Felius: 4/10
Labyrinthia: 3/10
Tony: 2/10
Levin: 8/10
Ragnar: 6/10
Alexia: 5/10
-
THE UPDATE HAS COME! AND WITH THE UPDATE COMES...
VARIOUS STASTISTICS!!!
Average Std. Dev.
Clarissa 8.33 0.61
Felius 3.5 0.43
Labyrinthia 4.28 0.83
Tony 1.22 0.36
Levin 8 0.5
Ragnar 5.33 0.5
Alexia 5.33 1.12
Secutor 6.21 0.64
Elementalist 8.21 0.27
Fantastica 5.71 1.89
Gadgeteer 4.43 0.93
Sentinel 3.07 0.53
Sacred Slayer 8 0
Excavator 1.93 0.19
Geomancer 3.29 1.41
Berserker 4.93 1.34
Enigmancer 6.07 1.86
Strider 5.92 0.92
Grappler 4.21 1.29
Nightstalker 4.79 1.22
Emulator 8 2.45
Extremist 4.93 0.89
High Cavalier 2.86 0.38
PC Standard Deviation: 2.49
Generic Class Standard Deviation: 1.89
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 2.03
Best Rating of this Session: Clarissa w/ 8.33
Worst Rating of this Session: Tony w/ 1.22
Best Rating of Generic Classes: Emulator w/ 8.00
Worst Rating of Generic Classes: Excavator w/ 1.93
And now we move on from Wild ARMs to...something NOT Wild ARMs...
Legaia 2:
Lang:
Maya:
Kazan:
Sharon:
Ayne:
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd:
Genis:
Colette:
Kratos:
Raine:
Sheena:
Zelos:
Presea:
Regal:
And if it's not obvious, I have given up on Surnames entirely. One has to earn having their surname by getting on one of the top 20s! ...perhaps I should consider increasing those to top 25s sometime soon granted...
(so yes, I am "rewarding" someone for being so bad they get on top 20 losers by them getting their last name, what about it?)
-
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd: Well the typical Tales swordsman can only be so bad, but in some ways Lloyd's score speaks more to certain early PCs sucking than his own abilities. 6.5/10
Genis: ToS is not a kind game to attack magic. 3/10
Colette: On the other hand Colette is just kinda bad. 3.5/10
Kratos: He's useful early, at least. When/if he comes back he is just kind of ehn. 6/10
Raine: Well the typical Tales healer is pretty much never bad and Raine is a textbook example. 7/10
Sheena: Found her to be worse than Colette. 2/10
Zelos: Kratos without the early use. 5.5/10
Presea: Want to say she was okay at least. 6/10
Regal: Never really used him, abstain.
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 8/10. Good at everything.
Maya: 6/10. Some Offense issues due to how she works; she can do big damage at once but has harder times either doing it consistently or building it up. She does, however, have good support spells.
Kazan: 8/10. Jeigan character without any real flaws. Others pass him, but in this style of game there's really little penalty for using him at all.
Sharon: 7/10. Good at what she does.
Ayne: 4/10. Felt subpar due to lacking what the Mystics had.
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd: 7/10. Solid Tales Main, but not spectacular.
Genis: 2/10. Not a game that is kind to mages at all.
Colette: 3/10. Not as bad as Genis, but not good either.
Kratos: 7/10. Lloyd variant with healing, sure.
Raine: 8/10. Tales Healer, so yeah, you kind of want to use her.
Sheena: 3/10. Her main niche is summons during overlimit...which never comes up. Oh sure, she has an infinite but TP actually stops her from spamming.
Zelos: 7.5/10. Kratos who is around longer.
Presea: 6/10. Alright, but not my style.
Regal: 6.5/10. Felt like Kratos-lite, but I seem to prefer him to Presea.
-
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd: 7/10. Echoing the others.
Genis: 1/10. I have literally never found a good use for him.
Colette: 2/10. I guess she contributes something when you don't have any better PCs.
Kratos: 6/10. Weaker Lloyd with bad healing. But not much weaker.
Raine: 8/10. Tales healer.
Sheena: 5/10. Really fun to play as. I don't think the AI uses her very well, she felt a lot more effective under manual control. Still clearly inferior to the swordsmen though, if not by a lot, IMO.
Zelos: 6/10. See Kratos. I don't think the minor differences between the two in availability or jeigan qualities merit a score difference.
Presea: 6.5/10. Only thing holding her back from being Lloyd's equal is the slower speed to her attacks, IMO.
Regal: I didn't use him much, but what I did use of him feels in tune with what Meeple said, so 6/10, felt pretty much like another Kratos variant.
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 7/10
Maya: 4/10
Kazan: 6.5/10
Sharon: 8/10
Ayne: 3/10
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 8. Solid all arounder.
Maya: 4.5. Rocky and up and down. Never good at damage, but great spells. However, Legaia was very nice on healing items, IIRC, which really removes a lot of the usefulness of her niche.
Kazan: 7.5. Awesome early, middling late but can still be made into something.
Sharon: 9. Auto-prevents basically the one way you were dying until you get her (Ambushed by faster enemies, eat two rounds in a row and die) by her speed alone. Speed then doubles to make her the best random clearer, and she holds her own for bosses. Lots of other neat utility, but the first reason listed is really the best.
Ayne: 3. Not horrible, but not really good.
-
ToS was my first Tales game, and I basically played it like a Final Fantasy wherein you either pick the super move you want or else otherwise spam "A" a lot to regular attack. I discovered the secrets of comboing Demon Fang with another Arte in like the final dungeon. I also ended up using 2 of the "worst" characters for AI control according to some parts of the Internet hype in Sheena & Genis but still did okay, so my rankings are pretty shaky here, take with a large grain of salt.
Lloyd: 7/10 - TP is a bit of an issue, but that's it.
Genis: 4/10 - Consistent stream of light damage & disruption, but frail.
Colette: 4/10 - Colette controls like a boat, and she's less tanky than say Kratos/Zelos on AI without seeming to have a damage edge to make up for it.
Kratos: 6?/10 - Stat/level-edge early, emergency back-up healing early. Was getting kinda trashy toward the end but that was because I didn't know you needed to use his spells 50 times to unlock the good moves, but whatever, Zelos had those unlocked anyway.
Raine: 7/10 - Utter trash in a fight, but she's your only healer, so uh you're using her no matter what.
Sheena: 5?/10 - She seemed okay to me, but see above, I didn't experiment enough to notice her alleged AI damage issues vs. other characters on AI much. Apparently if you control her she's very good at stunlocks & juggles as well.
Zelos: 5?/10 - Another fighter.
Presea: Didn't use enough to say for sure, but I hated her style with the slow wind-up hits. Apparently she has uber damage to make up for it.
Regal: Practically didn't use at all because not only is Regal plot dumb, his fighting style is dumb.
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 7/10. All-rounder, #2 HP and #2 speed along with good attack magic go a long way.
Maya: 4/10. The healing spells aren't really very good because items are very potent. However, Gospel is a great buff. Unimpressive otherwise.
Kazan: 7/10. Insanely good for a while early. Mediocre but not terrible late. These days I have more respect for this type; even if you do what I did and drop him when you get Sharon he still served a very valuable role before then.
Sharon: 8.5/10. Speed is so good in this game for the reasons Dhyer said, and Sharon has no statistical failings to offset it; decent at attacking, HP, and magic all.
Ayne: 2.5/10. I'm not really sure why you'd use him but he's not appalling. So much like Kongol (edit: with better magic durability at least)!
-
Wait isn't Para Ball supposed to be pretty broken or something ...? Haven't played the game myself but have read people say Colette is broken before (stuff about Para Ball, spell cancel, Para Ball w/th spell cancel, stuffs like that) ~
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 7.5/10. He's just dang solid all around.
Maya: 5/10. Items totally rob her niche. Gospel kinda makes up for it later.
Kazan: 6.5/10. He's solid for a while.
Sharon: 8/10. Randomsmashing is good.
Ayne: 3/10. Would be better in a game that wasn't pure blitzkreig vs. randoms.
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd: 6/10. He's solid enough I suppose?
Genis: 3/10. Didn't get much use out of him.
Colette: 4/10. She was very odd in battle, didn't seem to be where she needed to be.
Kratos: 5/10. He's solid enough when around.
Raine: 6/10. Healer, but generally not too great?
Sheena: 4/10. I didn't see her doing much at all in battle.
Zelos: 5/10. Solid in battle.
Presea: 5/10. Good HP/Def/Offense. Can't ask for too much else from her slow-tank archetype.
Regal: 5/10. He was pretty much a passable fighter?
-
Is there still a bottom 20 fail list? I'd be curious to know where Tony fell on that.
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 7/10. He's very solid all-around - attack magic is very good in-game and his is one of the best, he's good at building AP and whatnot, decent speed, decent durability. His only "problems" are not being outright dominating, but he's your #2 pretty much throughout and not by an insignificant margin.
Maya: 4/10. Healing niche when items are -this- potent? Even if you hold back on them a bit like I did, she isn't all that great a healer because her spells are sorta expensive and her durability/speed combo sucks. At least she can hit elemental weaknesses and Gospel is -amazing- when it comes up, but there's a bit of a hike until then. Oh, and HER AWFUL AWFUL BEGINNING TRIP WHEN SHE CAN'T EVEN ATTACK. Instantly docks her half a point (and would be more if she stayed in it for any longer).
Kazan: 6.5/10. Is excellent when you need a powerhouse PC the -most-. Once he starts losing steam, he loses it fast, but he's never -terrible-, and he's your crutch for some of the hardest parts in the game.
Sharon: 8.5/10. Her speed is -absolutely crucial- for Legaia's nasty randoms and she has offense to spare. No real relevant statistical failure, absolutely awesome random-busting stats and also works well against bosses due to her absolutely nuts AP gauge filling - not to mention she's pretty much premier twink-bait. By endgame, I was having her deal about 35k a pop with -AP-building- strings, let alone with high-powered Art strings.
Ayne: 2.5/10. That speed is really bad for such a rocket-tag environment. He doesn't even really have something truly useful to make him stand out (limits on his Arts means other PCs have better potential, his spells aren't really all that great...).
-
Is there still a bottom 20 fail list? I'd be curious to know where Tony fell on that.
Check the first page. Tony didn't even make Bottom 20.
-
Too much rating FFT monsters for that.
-
Legaia 2:
Lang: 7/10
Maya: 5/10
Kazan: 5/10
Sharon: 6/10
Ayne: 3/10
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd: 6/10
Genis: 3/10
Colette: 3/10
Kratos: 5/10
Raine: 7/10
Sheena: 4/10
Zelos: 5/10
Presea: 5/10
Regal: 5/10
-
Legaia 2: Duel Saga:
Average Std. Dev.
Lang 7.33 0.52
Maya 4.75 0.76
Kazan 6.75 1.04
Sharon 7.83 1.13
Ayne 3.00 0.55
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 2.01
Tales of Symphonia:
Average Std. Dev.
Lloyd 6.70 0.45
Genis 2.60 1.14
Colette 3.10 0.74
Kratos 6.00 0.71
Raine 7.40 0.55
Sheena 3.80 1.3
Zelos 5.80 1.04
Presea 5.88 0.63
Regal 5.83 0.76
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.66
Best Rating of this Session: Sharon w/ 7.83
Worst Rating of this Session: Genis w/ 2.60
You know, I have decided because of reasons I cannot disclose, you guys deserve to be punished! No, this is entirely your fault! As a result, you will be forced to rate...
Final Fantasy 3 (DS):
Freelancer:
Warrior:
Thief:
Monk:
Red Mage:
Black Mage:
White Mage:
Knight:
Scholar:
Ranger:
Geomancer:
Dragoon:
Viking:
Dark Knight:
Evoker:
Bard:
Black Belt:
Magus:
Devout:
Sage:
Ninja:
Summoner:
Onion Knight:
Yes! NOW YOU WILL UNDERSTAND TRUE PAIN AND SUFFERING BY BEING FORCED TO DO THIS! MWAHAHAHAHAAHHA!!!
On hindsight, this probably wasn't a very effective punishment in any sense of the word...
Serious Remark: If it's not obvious, this is intended for the DS version specifically. Do not rate on the Original version. That will be rated separately at a different time.
-
Final Fantasy 3 (DS):
Freelancer: 2/10. Ignore.
Warrior: 8/10. I didn't really use one myself but uh looking at the numbers it seems like the clear choice for physical class. Like, park a dude here and stay there good at it.
Thief: 6/10. There's a smaller gap between physical classes in this game than is typical in the series I found (warrior's Advance aside), so only so bad they can be. And you do get some good stuff from stealing, and Thief is one of the first classes so if you want to use steal the JLs will put it ahead of most stuff.
Monk: 5/10. No real utility, but like I said, only so bad a physical class will be.
Red Mage: 7/10. So Red Mage spells are a bit of a joke, very outclassed very quickly. But despite a midgame slump in weapon selection I found myself rotating my main physical attackers to RM regularly because the Mdef boost from hats was pretty critical. And by endgame they do get some of the good weapons, so they're perfectly good there if you have them remotely up to speed in JLs.
Black Mage: 4/10. despite the dominance of JLs in most respects in the game, Black Mage is still basically a filler class for later spellcasters. the L8 spells are just too important.
White Mage: 6/10. Matters a lot less in white magic. But also dropping them endgame or no you pretty much do need a white mage.
Knight: 4/10. Yeah just stick to warrior.
Scholar: 4/10. The game kinda showers you with item casts, so scholar's niche is kinda neat, but not how I care to play at all.
Ranger: 3/10. Kinda pointless I htought? Unless I'm forgetting something.
Geomancer: 7/10. Their command skill is pretty badass until basically endgame. Also pretty much give no fucks about equips, which is important in this game.
Dragoon: 6/10. Benefits a lot from more or less unique weapon selection, plus if you use thieves you get some extra high-tier equips.
Viking: 3/10. Basically the only melee class hampered by their stats.
Dark Knight: 6/10. The gap between when they are available and when you get gear for them is really unfortunate, because it means you aren't building up melee rank in that time. Still, Darkness is great, MT damage is at a premium in this game.
Evoker: 5/10. Despite the nature of their skillset, I'll still take them over BMs usually.
Bard: 2/10. I don't remember bards having ANYTHING.
Black Belt: 2/10. Wayyyy too late to care on a melee class.
Magus: 5/10. They're okay.
Devout: 7/10. Replacement WM. The extra MP slots for Araise I found really crucial at times.
Sage: 6/10. Generally your endgame mage class.
Ninja: 5/10. Good equip selection offsets their status as an endgame melee class somewhat, and I recall throw being decent but expensive.
Summoner: 5/10. Probably an extra point for MT is in order depending on party setup but yeah. Okay but not great.
Onion Knight: 2/10. Interesting concept, but being locked behind whatever stupid 'multiplayer' the game had and being impractical at best is not a good combo.
-
Late to the party, but whatever~
Legaia 2:
Lang: 7 - he's a good main!
Maya: 3.5 - closer to a 4 due to being an overshadowed slow healer, but that beginning pacifism docks her half a point
Kazan: 6.5 - overall good, sort of drags towards the end
Sharon: 8.5 - MVP~
Ayne: 2.5 - Somehow worse than Maya
Tales of Symphonia:
Lloyd: 7.5 - Tales main in a game before non-mains became viable controlled options.
Genis: 4 - Ties up the enemy and has crowd control. But, useless on his own, no damage, and generally requires another player for intelligent play.
Colette: 3 - Contributes nothing besides her MT buff later on. Trying to main her is a failed experiment. Slow and fragile, though ranged! Half point for being better than an empty slot early on. Talks to dogs as party leader!
Kratos: 7 - You need another fighter besides Lloyd. Kratos is around longer and earlier. Actually present while his healing is useful. Gets some good equip options lategame.
Raine: 8 - Someone has to heal, and better yet, she can do Genis' role if she's not busy healing.
Sheena: 3 - worse than Genis, damage is useless. Has good combos but never uses them. Trying to main her is just as bad as maining Colette, only Sheena isn't ranged so her fragility is even more of a liability.
Zelos: 6.5 - Kratos minus
Presea: 6.5 - another fighter archetype, at least she's viable and plays significantly differently than the swordsmen. I would peg her as slightly less good overall than them. Wants some kinda cool equipment cheese like them.
Regal: 6 - better than the scrubs! Fast! Unwieldy combos though and he leaves himself open more than a speed-type character should. Also wishes he had equipment cheese.
Final Fantasy 3 (DS):
Freelancer: 1 - Uh... did they even have a point?
Warrior: 7.5 - physical class that can carry you the whole game, so you can relive those FF1 days in an entirely new job system!
Thief: 5 - not the worst thief class in the series!
Monk: 5 - kinda lackluster, but solid damage and doesn't require buying lots of equipment, so that's good?
Red Mage: 4.5 - I feel like this one is a waste of time since you need to be planning for more long-term goals in FF3DS.
Black Mage: 4 - Honestly the same problem as Red Mage, though with less Jeigan potential...
White Mage: 6.5 - You could rock a White Mage all game if you wanted, healing is healing. I generally sent both my spellcasters down White Mage at alternate points in the game.
Knight: 5 - it's an upgrade from Warrior, but not enough of one, which really just translates to wasted time grinding JLs.
Scholar: -1 - I am bitter towards Scholars. They also are useless outside of like one fight.
Ranger: 3 - Possibly the worst physical class? Its niche doesn't really work.
Geomancer: 6 - a bit too random for my tastes, but it's nice to have a carrier class for your mages.
Dragoon: 5 - Another solid though lackluster physical class.
Viking: 3.5 - even more lackluster! And they don't even look like Dwarves now... Where are their beards?
Dark Knight: 6 - physical class with its own niche (MT)!
Evoker: 6.5 - Your attack mage will probably be this at some point.
Bard: 2 - NotaFreelancer/10
Black Belt: 3.5 - lackluster physical class, but now gotten even later!
Magus: 7 - One of two real options for your endgame attack mage. Might've been higher but it is sharing its niche with Summoner.
Devout: 6.5 - Pretty awesome, but sharing its niche with a startup job is embarrassing.
Sage: 6.5 - I feel like this is the better endgame option for your primary healer, who can then use attack magic as a backup plan.
Ninja: 7.5 - Your only good option for an endgame physical class if you're going to grind it out. Loses to warrior on the basis of Warrior needing less investment.
Summoner: 7 - Your other option for an endgame attack mage. You do need endgame magic damage, gotta get it somewhere.
Onion Knight: DNR?
-
Freelancer: 1/10. Useless, replace immediately.
Warrior: 8/10. Decent enough speed and physical durability, and just the best at direct offence. Has the usual melee fighter weaknesses of iffy MDef and needing to be in the front row, but you definitely want one of them anyway.
Thief: 6/10. Fast and reasonably damaging. Fragile however. Benefits a bit from parts of the game when they have decent ranged offence.
Monk: 4/10. There's nothing really wrong with Monk, but there's not much reason to use them either. They're fairly low-cost at least.
Red Mage: 4/10. The skillset feels too limited. They're somewhat durable later but eh, non-proactive durability in most RPGs, whatever.
Black Mage: 6/10. Fairly good early, bonus point for being the best class for certain places where you are auto-minied.
White Mage: 6/10. Okay healbot.
Knight: 3/10. "upgrade" to warrior? Their damage sucks, their speed sucks. The auto-cover and white magic levels are nice but this is still pretty blar.
Scholar: 4/10. I always feel they're kinda even with knight, trading durability for damage (mostly with items, but books hit surprisingly hard). Bonus point for Hyne.
Ranger: 5/10. Takes a bit to get rolling but the elemental arrows are solid and Barrage gets pretty nasty as time goes on.
Geomancer: 6/10. Solid though a bit unreliable.
Dragoon: 5.5/10. Unremarkable fighter option which gets a bonus half point for Garuda.
Viking: 4/10. I kinda like Provoke (initiative draw fire + defence down on a slow, tanky class), but its accuracy does leave something to be desired, and the class is awful outside that.
Dark Knight: 5/10. Darkness is neat, though yeah they have some equip problems which keeps them from shining as a melee option.
Evoker: 5/10. Okay attack mage with some random healing.
Bard: 3/10. The buffs keep it from being crap.
Black Belt: 1.5/10. I guess they're better than Freelancer but hahaha incredibly JL-reliant class gained late.
Magus: 6.5/10. The only class which felt like it maintained the useful FF3o status thank to their very high Int and plentiful castings of Warp and Break.
Devout: 7.5/10. The most important job to have against the evil final boss sequence. Use this at the end, no questions asked. Maybe two.
Sage: 6/10. Devout with better (still trashy) offence in exchange for less speed. That's a losing trade but Sage + Devout has a decent case over Devout x2 for the last bit.
Ninja: 5/10. Throw's nice at least, and they have good stats. JLs are a problem of course.
Summoner: 5/10. On paper they're good but in practice you just don't face enough multi-enemy fights late in FF3DS, way too many solos.
Onion Knight: DNR / pass
-
Final Fantasy 3 (DS):
Freelancer: 1/10. Pointless. The one point is for the 5% of the game you're required to use them.
Warrior: 8/10. Best physical Job in the game, and around a long time. Why not higher? Because other physical jobs aren't so far behind that replacing them with something else is do-able.
Thief: 5/10. It's pretty bad in the first half of the game, but gets actually fairly good in the second half. Was considering higher except that you kind of want to use one in that first half, at least part way, for it to be good in that second half. Steal in theory is neat for Scholar for hording Bomb Arms, I guess, but don't think I can give too much credit for that.
Monk: 6/10. I can see giving this higher if you got a lot of JLevels on it such it's Unarmed Attack actually does good damage; for me, that was never the case, so what we had was a decent but not-spectacular physical fighter who gets outclassed. Mostly good first half to be alongside Warrior so you can save cash, equips, etc.
Red Mage: 8/10. Weird Job where everything sort of falls into place. The JLevels they get let their Healing magic be sufficient the entire game, have the rare combination of Mage-level Magic Defense and offense that comes close to Physical Fighters (Physicals > Magic in this game), and in worst case scenario, can double up on shields, go in back row, and work as tank healers. Resources are a little low at first, but honestly, the pay off is well worth it.
Black Mage: 5/10. Pretty much the opposite of the Thief. IT's got a strong first half, having Bows for damage, and magic being actually decent, but really weak second half. Thief's 2nd Half > Black Mage's first half, though, offset by Black Mage being good out of the gate.
White Mage: 6/10. Battery Healer, the fact that Red Mage is actually good this game at a lot of what White Mage has does hurt it's appeal value though. Main reason to use it is for the MP.
Knight: 3/10. Tank PC that isn't as tanky as you'd think because Knight Armor gets outclassed and doesn't upgrade until Diamond Stuff shows up, Cover is unreliable since enemies often hit past the near dead status or use Magic, and on top of that, has a legitimate Mid-Game Weapon Lag, where Blood Sword is it's best until Defenders, and Defenders are it's best until the Labyrinth (Stoneblade.) All other jobs get SOMETHING to compensate (Warrior's Axes, Red Mage's utility, Dark Knight's Katanas, etc.), Knight does not, and it already has some offensive issues. Ragnarok + Excalibur does give it legitimate offense to be fair, but that's final dungeon only.
Scholar: 5/10. Weird Job. If you use one the entire game, they're actually worth something, but if you ever stop using one, they won't be. The big thing they have going for them is your best source of Magic Damage by far due to Double Damage Spell Items, which are great for nuking bosses, specifically CoD's Tentacles. Their damage is better than you'd expect, and they have Mage Magic Defense, but if you're going that route, you'd probably be questioning "Why not just use Red Mage?"
Ranger: 4/10. Turns into something decent after a point, but generally not worth it.
Geomancer: 4/10. I never saw what was amazing about them; they are good at first but really don't last. The random chance of Shadow Flare is a gimmick, but again, unreliable.
Dragoon: 6.5/10. Solid Physical Job with an OP Weapon available early, and Blood Lance gimmick. Loses half a point since it really needs Gungnir to be worth something, which is a permanently miss-able item.
Viking: 6/10. What Knights wish they were. Provoke is way more reliable than Cover, their unique defensive gear is way better, and they've got better weapons throughout the game offsetting their worse hits (Knight is the only job that doesn't just destroy them on hits.)
Dark Knight: 6/10. Soul Eater is a rare case of good MT damage, and they have no problems with good weapons. Flaw? Shit armor selection for quite a while making them a little too Glass Cannon for my likings.
Evoker: 4/10. Nerfed so bad from their FF3o self it's not even funny. Ok, Ifrit's Healing is great, and Titan is ok reliable damage, but Shiva and Ramuh have awfully unreliable status, Chocobo is an unreliable Run Away, and the 3 Elemental Summons damage just isn't as good as you'd like.
Bard: 2/10. People argue they have these cool uses but the numbers suggest otherwise. sorry if I can't respect 10% Free MT Healing when Red Mage's single MT Cura heals way more.
Black Belt: 1/10. AHAHAHAAHHAHAAH no. Upgrade of a Monk...in theory. In practice, Monk has all those JLevels making it a way better job...and this Job is JLevel intensive to boot.
Magus: 4/10. Don't really respect status this late seeing as your offense in Eureka is high enough to cut things down fast, and enemies in the Side Quest areas are even worse.
Devout: 7/10. Yeah, you want one of these for the final dungeon...
Sage: 7/10. Or one of these, if not both.
Ninja: 6/10. Decent physical job, though not spectacular. I guess Throw lets it take a defensive build (wanna say it can use Genji Shield) for bosses, which is a gimmick.
Summoner: 4/10. Good for Eureka and Side Quest areas, where you fight groups, kind of meh elsewhere. It's only use in the final dungeon is blowing up one of the CoD's Tentacles, and really, Sage does that fine (or Scholar if you're using one) while also bringing another Healer in the mix. The fact that it's late and the fact that 3 of the 4 late game dungeons are heavily "Single Large Enemies" formations instead of groups really kills this job's use. Bahamut's good damage, but decent physical jobs compete.
Onion Knight: 1/10. Gimmick Job gotten via Mognet shenanigans only *flush*
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Final Fantasy 3 (DS):
Freelancer: 1/10. To be gotten out of as soon as possible pretty much.
Warrior: 9/10. Physical attackers rule FF3DS, and Warrior is the best of them.
Thief: 7/10. Surprisingly good attacker, though not as good as warrior. Back row damage is a nice niche. Slight issue with late blooming.
Monk: 6/10. Basically Warrior-. Still a physical attacker.
Red Mage: 8/10. Almost as good offense as Warrior without Advance, can heal decently well, and gets mage-level magic defense (which is important in this game). Using Red Mages for offensive magic is a trap, don't do it beyond the water crystal.
Black Mage: 3/10. They're better than Freelancers. However, their edge on damage magic is pretty small for the portion of the game where damage magic is worth using; I'd rather just use a Red Mage, as they're perfectly adequate for the parts where you NEED damage magic (mini dungeons) and have much more longevity.
White Mage: 7/10. You'll need one eventually for long-term healing (there are parts of the game where RM healing alone doesn't hold up that come before Devout unlocks).
Knight: 4/10. Probably the second-worst physical job in the game. Bad offense due to severe weapon availability issues, and they don't actually do their main role (tanking) well. Meh.
Scholar: 8/10 on DS, 5/10 on iOS/PSP. Basically, see Meeple's comments. I give them +3 points on DS because of the existence of an item dupe bug that gives them a bottomless supply of attack items.
Ranger: 5/10. Meh, thief is better at back row attack niche.
Geomancer: 5/10. Functional, not great. Unreliable.
Dragoon: 6/10. Decent physical attacker, quite great when you first get it but kind of plateaus. +1 point if used in conjunction with a thief so you can get extra Gungnir.
Viking: 6/10. Knight+, for all that I feel that tanking isn't terribly useful in this game, they're at least good at it.
Dark Knight: 7/10. Souleater's probably gamebest MT damage, but that's only worth so much. They're good physical attackers without it though.
Evoker: 2/10. Unreliable mages that come beyond the point where magic starts to fall behind.
Bard: 4/10. I'm not gonna claim they're good but I've found ways to make them useful before. But they're definitely not good.
Black Belt: 1/10. Gameworst job (not counting Freelancer). Literally the only use of Black Belt is maximizing HP gains on levelup to prepare for the aftergame bonus bosses, Monk will be better at everything Black Belt does if you've leveled it at all.
Magus: 2/10. It's Black Mage+ after damage magic has badly fallen behind. No thanks.
Devout: 6/10. It's White Mage+. Scores lower due to job level dependence (you will notice a dropoff in MT healing numbers when you make the switch and for a good while after).
Sage: 5/10. I don't get Sage hype in FF3DS. Their speed sucks, they heal worse than devouts, attack magic isn't useful, and they don't get full summoning to boot. All of that adds up to Devout- for me. The only niche I can see for them is packing a few status spells from black magic in their list, and maybe Flare, but see Meeple's comments re: status. That said, I do agree with NEB that Sage+Devout > Devout x2.
Ninja: 6/10. Best back row attacker there is, if you can afford the shuriken spam.
Summoner: 3/10. See Black Mage/Magus comments. Crowd control job in a game that has very few crowds later on.
Onion Knight: DNR, gimmick job that requires silly wi-fi sidequest on DS, and requires excessive grinding no matter what.
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All the ratings below can be completely blamed on whoever posts immediately after me. So if there's anything you disagree with, you know who to take it out on!
Average Std. Dev.
Freelancer 1.2 0.45
Warrior 8.1 0.55
Thief 5.8 0.84
Monk 5.2 0.84
Red Mage 6.3 1.92
Black Mage 4.4 1.14
White Mage 6.3 0.45
Knight 3.8 0.84
Scholar 4.4 2.51
Ranger 4 1
Geomancer 5.6 1.14
Dragoon 5.8 0.57
Viking 4.5 1.41
Dark Knight 6 0.71
Evoker 4.5 1.66
Bard 2.6 0.89
Black Belt 1.8 1.04
Magus 4.9 2.01
Devout 6.8 0.57
Sage 6.1 0.74
Ninja 5.9 1.02
Summoner 4.8 1.48
Onion Knight N/A N/A
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.62
Best Rating and Worst Rating would be redundant to state now because I bolded and italicized them respectively. YES I AM THAT LAZY!
MOVING ON! We have DISNEY and JAPANESE NAMES!
Kingdom Hearts:
Sora:
Donald:
Goofy:
Tarzan:
Aladdin:
Ariel:
Jack Skellington:
Peter Pan:
Beast:
Persona 3:
Minato:
Junpei:
Yukari:
Akihiko:
Mitsuru:
Koromaru:
Ken:
Aigis:
Shinjiro:
SIDE NOTE: If you're going to post multiple ratings for a character, please make it clear which one you want counted into the averages (be it via bolding, text, etc.). Otherwise, I'm taking the first rating I see. This is more of a reminder than anything else. I am bringing it up now because from my understanding, one of these games could very well have multiple ratings per character.
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Persona 3:
The first number I give (the one you should probably use, Meeple) assumes AI control as in the PS2 versions (I don't think the differences between vanilla and FES are especially notable enough to change ratings much). The second number is for P3P assuming manual control.
Minato Arisato/Protagonist: 10/10 PS2, 9/10 PSP. One of the most broken characters to ever grace an RPG period. He loses a point on PSP because of the really broken fusion spells being a bit less accessible in that version, and because he's now weapon-locked - the male protagonist uses only rapiers (and a distinct set of them from Mitsuru) while the female protagonist uses only naginata. There's no mechanical difference between the male and female protagonists worth mentioning, certainly nothing that would affect the rating (I do find the female protagonist's battle initation timing to be slightly easier, though).
Junpei Iori: 4/10 PS2, 5/10 PSP. His durability is non-special, his magic is bad so he's poor at triggering One Mores, and on PS2 in particular, his skillset is loaded with redundancies. P3P improves his skillset enough to give him an extra point (he trades Deathbound and Assault Dive for Fire Break and Brave Blade), but he still feels like one of the weakest PCs overall in spite of this improvement. AI control doesn't make much difference on him overall.
Yukari Takeba: 6/10 both versions. Earlygame healer with notable durability issues later who has some serious issues doing damage (her only meaningful offensive option is wind magic). The AI usually plays her competently, too, so manual control of her isn't worth a point.
Akihiko Sanada: 6/10 PS2, 8/10 PSP. His skillset didn't change between versions, but in my experience, manual control allows much more effective use of his debuffs (getting the AI to use them over just nuking required a fair bit of annoying micromanagement, IIRC), and Persona 3 debuffs are really damn good.
Mitsuru Kirijo: 5/10 PS2, 7/10 PSP. Like Akihiko, manual control is such an improvement on her (no more wasted turns spamming Marin Karin or Tentarafoo on shit she could just OHKO). She just doesn't bring as much to the table as Akihiko does, though.
Koromaru: 4.5/10 PS2, 6/10 PSP. Koromaru's skillset got revamped like Junpei's, somewhat more extensively at that. He gives up Evil Smile and Fire Break in exchange for Mudo Boost and Masukukaja - a sharply winning trade, if you ask me. The only thing he doesn't do better than Junpei is straight physical damage, really.
Ken Amada: 6/10 PS2, 7/10 PSP. In P3P, Ken trades Hama Boost for Primal Force, which I feel is more or less even since Ken lacks Mahamaon to really capitalize on Hama Boost. He was pretty much always a better Yukari, and P3P makes him a slightly better better Yukari, but not half a point worth, really. EDIT: After thinking on it for a while, AI issues in the PS2 version are enough to downgrade him a point, yeah.
Aigis: 5.5/10 PS2, 7.5/10 PSP. See Akihiko, being able to control her makes her immensely more effective as a support PC. Her damage is still kind of bad at base, but P3P makes her a reliable force multiplier for the rest of the team enough to justify her use.
Shinjiro: 6/10 both versions. He's basically a better Junpei while you have him. Shrug.
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Kingdom Hearts:
Sora: 8/10
Donald: 6/10
Goofy: 4/10
Tarzan: 5/10
Aladdin: 4/10
Ariel: 5/10
Jack Skellington: 4/10
Peter Pan: 3/10
Beast: 6/10
Persona 3:
Minato: 10/10
Junpei: 3/10
Yukari: 7/10. While you can get away without using Yukari (generally by running Mitsuru/Akihiko/Aigis together), it's not really worth it.
Akihiko: 6/10.
Mitsuru: 5/10.
Koromaru: 4/10.
Ken: 4/10.
Aigis: 5/10.
Shinjiro: 3/10. If P3 had leaked experience he'd be higher (he's pretty good really, no weaknesses and all), but as is you have to let another PC fall behind to use him.
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Kingdom Hearts:
Sora: 9 - Let's be honest, you basically have to solo this game because the AI of your teammates is crap.
Donald: 5.5 - I feel like I'm weighting the ally performance. Donald's not really much of a 5.5, but he occasionally does something good.
Goofy: 3 - Unlike this loser, who is always the one I replace when I have an option.
Tarzan: 5 - Is fast and does damage sometimes!
Aladdin: 4 - Better than Goofy!
Ariel: 6 - Has magic and tends to use it semi-intelligently!
Jack Skellington: 4 - Better than Goofy!
Peter Pan: 4 - Ditto!
Beast: 5 - Does damage and doesn't die easily! I wonder if I shouldn't lower all of these non-Sora scores by a point?
Persona 3:
Minato: 10/10 - Probably fits the definition of 11/10.
Junpei: 4 - Low end middling PC, better when there are less options, but not actually -bad-.
Yukari: 6 - yay healing
Akihiko: 6 - Saves your ass!
Mitsuru: 5.5 - For all that manual control would be better, I still will happily take a Marin Karin casting over most of the other crap these AI idiots do.
Koromaru: 3.5 - would probably be better on Manual control? ID with AI and enemies that can reflect spells in a game where MC death=game over, no thanks
Ken: 5 - See Koro, but has healing so possibly worth the risk.
Aigis: 7 - Use her, she's got that Orgia mode and the durability and few weaknesses and solid physical and magical damage.
Shinjiro: 2 - Not a game you wanna be using temps in. Probably still only a 4 as a permanent PC.
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Persona 3: Gonna rate the PSP version here, since it's the one I played most recently.
Minato: 10/10. Kinda a no brainer here.
Junpei: 4/10. Solid enough early, falls off late.
Yukari: 7/10. I overvalue healing. This is nothing new.
Akihiko: 8/10. Non-Minato MVP cleanly. The debuffs are great, he has no real weakspots other then the elemental weakness, does essentially everything and does it all well.
Mitsuru: 7/10. Really solid attack mage.
Koromaru: 5/10. Cleanly better then Junpei, but feels....well, like he really just doesn't bring enough to the table to use him over Mitsuru, Akihiko or Aigis.
Ken: 5/10. Maybe this is just "it's been awhile" but I really do not recall Ken being a good enough healer to replace Yukari. He's still not bad, though. But like Koro, Light/Dark feel like things better left to Minato when they come up, having elemental coverage is more important.
Aigis: 7/10. The MT buffs are nice. I found her worse then any of the mages vs randoms, but a hell of a boss slugger. I'll call it evened out to same score as Mitsuru.
Shinjiro: 4/10. Physical powerhouse in a game where elemental weaknesses are the big thing to capitalize on.
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Kingdom Hearts:
Sora: 8.5/10. Hard to rate your only controlled character, but feels right. Sora's skillset is pretty much hands down the best in the game and he even sticks on top of the damage curve throughout. Huge degree of control over his growth also tips him over pretty much definitely. I only don't hand him a 9 because he benefits through osmose from a systemic build.
Donald: 6.5/10. Durability sucks, but hey look Sora's magic skillset in his hands and he doesn't fail at using it, and that's a pretty big part of what makes Sora good. Being an additional heal battery's also nice.
Goofy: 3.5/10. His offense is anemic, but his support isn't -entirely- useless. Pretty bad overall, though.
Tarzan: 4.5/10. Subpar healing and bad offense, I guess. Worth -something-, certainly subbing him over Goofy.
Aladdin: 2.5/10. His damage is -appalling-. Only thing he's really capable of is tying enemies up to some degree, and I'm not even sure he does that better than Goofy.
Ariel: 6/10. Decently solid. Healing is decent and she has -a lot of offense- when she rams enemies right. Also good at tying them up with said offense.
Jack Skellington: 5/10. Actually not bad, weirdly, especially considering he's a goddamned attack mage in KH1. Gravity plays a part in that, since Grav spells are -nasty-.
Peter Pan: 2.5/10. The stage does him no favors and his AI is astoundingly stupid. It completely wastes the decent base damage and quirky skillset.
Beast: 6/10. Saves your ass in a section where you badly need him to and is passable otherwise. Certainly worth as high a score as Ariel, I guess.
Persona 3:
Minato Arisato: 10/10. Just dominatingly powerful from start to finish even ignoring the AI woes. He has no growing pains like Yu does (starts out glaringly superior instead of more versatile, but with ups and downs) and is designed to be able to solo the game if necessary.
Junpei Iori: 2.5/10. Game-worst PC hands down, there's just no -reason- to use him ever. Specializing in physicals running off bad mults and a sketchy stat build in such a mage-centric game is asking for trouble.
Yukari Takeba: 7.5/10. The only reason I don't hand her an 8 is her sketchy offense due to no Boosts and Amps. Even with boosting accessories, she falls behind the curve because the equips stack with the skills. Otherwise, you have no reason to sub her away once she gets going, since P3 punishes you for rotating party members and you don't want to run without at least -one- backup dedicated healer.
Akihiko Sanada: 5/10. Solid stat build and he can play the red mage game decently, but getting him to apply debuffs is a pain in the ass. They're less potent in P3 than P4 as well.
Mitsuru Kirijo: 6/10. Dominating as far as pure mages go (Ice feels like the best in-game element). The bad AI with status keeps her from going any higher, but TENTARAFOO hilariously trivialized some boss fights for me before.
Koromaru: 5/10. He's actually the second-best mage and has a powerful, sorta overlevelled start, running off upgraded Persona stats at a point nobody has an upgrade - and stays that way for a while. Problem is when he decides using Mudo, which sucks. He's also very one-dimensional, lacking even healing.
Ken Amada: 4/10. Sub-Yukari offense, running off a sketchy element that's better covered by someone else and starts underskilled for healing duty. Durability is better than Yukari and his elemental weakness is less dangerous on average, but, once again, the game openly punishes you for rotating party members outside a Koro case.
Aigis: 3.5/10. I find Aigis openly inferior to almost all your options until the lategame, at which point it doesn't even matter. Relying on mostly ST physicals for offense blows in P3 and her support skillset (i.e. her long-term selling point) not only stays crappy for a long time, but it's also marred by the Akihiko clause. Orgia Mode is a double-edged sword, but it can be cool. She probably gains ridiculously from P3P due to her benefitting so heavily from actual control, but that's not the version I played.
Shinjiro Aragaki: 3/10.. His physicals are at least powerful compared to everybody else's but he's a goddamn XP trap in a game that punishes you for rotating party members as -is-.
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Kingdom Hearts:
Sora: 8.5/10. Is the work horse of the team being the only playable character, capable of fulfilling many roles, though he's not overpowered about it.
Donald: 7/10. Low durability and weak early game, but he gets all the spells Sora gets, so he can keep you alive with healing and Aero, while shoving Stop and Gravity on opponents.
Goofy: 3.5/10. Lots of HP and Item slots...which unfortunately does not make up for his iffiness on all other fronts. MP Gift sounds good in theory, but you get MP Back so fast you don't really care.
Tarzan: 5/10. Healing before you have cure, otherwise kind of eh.
Aladdin: 3/10. Uh, yeah, nothing really going for him whatsoever other than locking opponents down.
Ariel: 6/10. A lesser version of Donald, the extra healing alone makes you feel immortal during the Atalantica arc.
Jack Skellington: 5/10. SOlid offensive mage with no real notable failings but doesn't really stand out either.
Peter Pan: 3/10. See Aladdin, really.
Beast: 6.5/10. Actually capable melee brawler whose strong enough to deal with all threats during the part of the game where Sora is completely awful. Nothing special once Sora stops being worthless, but the use during that point gives him the extra half a point.
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Sora: 8/10
Donald: 6/10
Goofy: 3/10
Tarzan: 4/10
Aladdin: 4/10
Ariel: 6/10
Jack Skellington: 3/10
Peter Pan: 3/10
Beast: 5/10
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Persona 3:
Minato Arisato/Makoto Yuuki: 10/10. Pretty straightforward, if you ask me, with a stronger wildcard than Narukami and the ability to -solo the entire game-.
Junpei Iori: 3.5/10. He does what he's supposed to early on (tank fire, hit things), and he gets half a point for his usefulness against Sleeping Table on higher difficulties (OHKO-grade Maragidyne makes fire resist a necessity), but other than that he's not that good.
Yukari Takeba: 4/10. Good earlygame healer. However, given that in most cases lategame ST healing is either sufficient (Akihiko, Mitsuru, and Aigis all have Diarahan) or once again handled by the main (who is just broken). Both of whom lack the offense or durability issues she has.
Akihiko Sanada: 6/10. Fairly decent red mage early, goes into generalist caster later where he becomes a more durable less-damaging Mitsuru.
Mitsuru Kirijo: 5.5/10. MARIN FUCKING KARIN docks her a point. Otherwise I distinctly remember her being worthy of mainlining lategame courtesy of good magic and Mind Charge.
Koromaru: 5/10. Magic is largely superior in P3 (excluding Vorpal Blade shenanigans), so he ranks easily above Junpei. Starting out Fire-immune and having ID which he doesn't use stupidly helps a lot. Also a big help against Sleeping Table on higher difficulties.
Ken Amada: 4/10. Felt a lot worse than Koromaru, particularly since Akihiko was already a competent lightning user and Ken had a frustrating tendency to go for Cruel Attack when possible instead of angling for more knockdowns.
Aigis: 4.5/10. Didn't use the buffs to her advantage, but is still a better healer than Yukari.
Shinjiro Aragaki: 4.25/10. Lack of weaknesses counts for a -lot- defensively in P3, and this on top of a non-terrible critical rate. While he is an XP sink, I found him useful for a few situations in particular. I'd probably rate him higher if he weren't a temp.
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Average Std. Dev.
Sora 8.4 0.42
Donald 6.2 0.57
Goofy 3.4 0.42
Tarzan 4.5 0.71
Aladdin 3.5 0.71
Ariel 5.8 0.45
Jack Skellington 4.2 0.84
Peter Pan 3.1 0.55
Beast 5.7 0.67
Standard Deviation: 1.71
Persona 3:
Average Std. Dev.
Minato 10 0
Junpei 3.5 0.63
Yukari 6.25 1.25
Akihiko 6.17 0.98
Mitsuru 5.67 0.75
Koromaru 4.5 0.63
Ken 4.67 0.82
Aigis 5.42 1.39
Shinjiro 3.71 1.38
Standard Deviation: 1.94
Best rating of this session: Minato w/ 10.00
Worst rating of this session: Peter Pan w/ 3.10
Congrats to Minato for the perfect 10.00 score.
Moving on, we have one game, one bonus round and one person being smacked with a large bag of rice should they post directly after me!
NOTE: May Not be any rice involved.
Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete:
Hiro:
Gwyn:
Lucia:
Ronfar:
Jean:
Lemina:
Leo:
BONUS ROUND!!!
RATE THAT LAWYER!
This is involves rating the character at how good they are at their job. No, I'm not sure what that means, that's for you guys to figure out. This isn't based necessarily on "How good of a character they are!" but rather, how good of a Lawyer they are. Also only factoring ni Lawyers who play a legitimate role in a case as something other than a Victim or Defendant, hence why someone like Lana Skye isn't on this list.
Ace Attorney Series:
Phoenix Wright:
Mia Fey:
Apollo Justice:
Athena Cykes:
Winston Payne:
Miles Edgeworth:
Manfred von Karma:
Franziska von Karma:
Godot:
Klavier Gavin:
Gaspen Payne:
Simon Blackquill:
NOTE: I did not factor in Ace Attorney Investigations because of a bunch of grey areas, and one of the games not coming state side.
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really gotta get around to playing those.
-
Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete:
Hiro: 8/10. Solid character, fast and decent offense throughout. Probably more of a 7.5 for most of the game but the ending spike is something, so sure, 8 works.
Gwyn: 4/10. He's okay, provides healing at least. If you reach higher levels than I did he gets a great ability against Guardian, but not giving much credit for that.
Lucia: 2/10. In theory she's a source of infinite healing but blah.
Ronfar: 6/10. Being a healer in a game like Lunar is really good, and Ronfar has no bad stats or anything, but he's really bad at everything that isn't healing (damage, skillset) so I have a hard time giving him a better score than this.
Jean: 7/10. Her status magic is okay, otherwise she is a Hiro variant, does the damage at high speed. Falls off some at the end. I'd give her half a point more if she didn't take a while to pick up her first big-damage tech, although her base physicals are solid even before then at least.
Lemina: 4/10. Slow and fragile; good damage isn't enough to offset this combination.
Leo: 5/10. I dunno, he's a competent enough warm body, certainly an improvement on Lucia. Lack of speed costs him compared to Hiro/Jean though.
BONUS ROUND!!!
RATE THAT LAWYER!
Scoring their proven abilities as an attorney in court.
Ace Attorney Series:
Phoenix Wright: 8/10 I dunno. He's not great at first, needs Mia to help him a lot especially in the first few cases. Gets better as the series goes on though (2-4 and 3-2 we get to see him even use his abilities for untruthful causes), and he feels kinda godmode by Trials and Tribulations. I feel like he may backslide a bit in Dual Destinies but maybe that's just the quality of the opposition. Overall still ends up pretty good though, just because Phoenix at his best is the best defence attorney we actually see in action.
Mia Fey: Pass. Plotwise Mia is probably comparable to Phoenix; T&T even ends with the implication that he has "caught up" to her. Unfortunately for Mia, when she's playable we kinda see her at her worst; she barely seems capable of doing much that is clever and struggles with some relatively easy opposition. So I suppose I should give her a really low score but that doesn't feel right.
Apollo Justice: 5/10. I'm not certain. In AJ, Apollo isn't allowed to stand on his own much, with either Phoenix or Klavier bailing him out a bunch, I felt. By Dual Destinies he's doing a bit better, I think, although having Athena with him helped.
Athena Cykes: 5/10. Seems really weak in 5-1, but then we realise there's a plot reason for that. Fairly competent in 5-3, but I'd like to see more from her before giving her a higher score.
Winston Payne: 3/10. Yeah, he's bad. Even in his first chronlogical appearance where he's an arrogant fucker, he doesn't present much meaningful opposition.
Miles Edgeworth: 9/10, though varies a bit (weaker in PW1, stronger in AAI and DD?). He's really good; highly intelligent. I don't think he's quite as good at the nasty prosecutorial traps as the von Karmas but yeah, best attorney in the series at thinking things and often figuring out Phoenix's logic before Phoenix does.
Manfred von Karma: 10/10. Yeah, no question, this is perfection. While there's quite a few characters I like more than him, there is nobody who runs a trial quite like he does. Completely controls the flow of the trial and the judge's mood in a way that other prosecutors may try to imitate, but nobody has ever matched. You could never face this guy repeatedly the way you do most of the others because it would be completely unbelievable that you'd win against him often; he was undefeated (and all but unpenalised) for 40 years for a reason.
Franziska von Karma: 8.5/10. Not quite as meticulous a planner as her father, and not quite as intelligent as her brother. Still the second best at controlling a trial and setting traps, and no slouch at arguments and logic either.
Godot: 2/10. He's kind of a joke; misses obvious things and it feels like anything good that happens for the prosecution in his trial is due to the killers, not him. Gets some points for having presence I guess, but not really. The two and a half trials of Phoenix vs. Godot are easily the most curbstomp showing by the defence attorney in the series. Diego Armando is presumably a decently competent defence attorney but we never see that.
Klavier Gavin: 4.5/10. I like Klavier but he's pretty weak as an opponent. I'm a little rusty on watching him at work (haven't played AJ myself in years) but scoring him around Apollo feels right... he does see some things Apollo does sometimes, but he also has some rather memorable obvious things he misses, and in general doesn't take the job as seriously as he probably should.
Gaspen Payne: 3/10. Blah. Same as Winston I guess, just more annoying.
Simon Blackquill: 7/10. Pretty smart, capable guy, but he's not Edgeworth-level bright and isn't willing to do immoral/illegal things to win, which hurts him compared to the others. Very good at influencing the judge's mood despite this, at least.
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Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete:
Hiro: 7/10. Generally solid.
Gwyn: 4/10
Lucia: 3/10. Bleh. Lunar 2 makes you care about MP enough the score is not totally horrible here.
Ronfar: 6/10. Absolutely key member of your team as the only reliable healer, and I suspect his random revive-all is rigged in your favor, but bleh vs. randoms.
Jean: 7/10. She is at her strongest when the game is most difficult, Disc 2. Her relative fall-off at the end is very very late, and she's serviceable if unspecial on Disc 1.
Lemina: 3/10. Nice MP well for Crests at least.
Leo: 6/10. Tanky reliable damage.
Rankings of "how good a lawyer" on a scale that includes something approaching ethics, which would indicate that the entire PW legal system sucks and is horrendously unfair and needs to be dismantled immediately, and noticing this fact should override all else, and more generally not granting any credit for winning via "cheating" (e.g. intentionally withholding crucial information to the other side to make things more dramatic when revealed in the trial):
Phoenix: 6/10. Shows some awareness that things are bad in 4-4 with "reform" efforts, continues with efforts against the Dark Age of the Law in DD... although the game seems to think this is an unusual abberation rather than the expected result. Aura was right to not trust the legal system.
Edgeworth: 5/10. See Phoenix for DD actions, he apparently has a reformist streak despite being the DA and thus weirdly powerless. Hard to say though, classic Edgey would be a 2/10.
Klavier: 4/10. Is not up in revolt, but is also like the only DA who isn't trying to actively hide things from the defense and is outright friendly with Apollo. Flip side, he doesn't drop the charges ASAP in 4-3 / 4-4 like he by all rights should have, but blah.
Everyone else: 2/10. Is not up in revolt.
Manfred: 0/10. Is a criminal who probably falsely imprisoned lots of people even aside from his other actions.
Okay, okay, yeah, that isn't the fun way to look at it! Okay, rankings strictly based on perceived "likelihood to win a case" with some allowance for the prosecutors about how they're rigged to usually lose in-game.
Ace Attorney Series:
Phoenix Wright: 8/10 by the end, sure. Why he has money problems after so many successful murder defenses we'll never know.
Mia Fey: DNR, see Elf.
Apollo Justice: 7/10, but hard to rate, yeah. Case 4-3 & 4-4 have issues and not the best place for him to show off. Regardless DD plays him as 2nd banana to Phoenix, but not a bad person to be compared to.
Athena Cykes: 3/10. Athena's a great character but no I don't want an 18-year old doing my murder defense, thanks, she can be co-pilot and learn the ropes for awhile. The game also explicitly criticizes her for total bullshit reasons in 5-3, but I guess she's supposed to be psychic or something about things the prosecution didn't tell her, and 5-3 is weird in general. It's really the script's fault but she isn't getting a great score when the script features lots of Phoenix / Apollo hand-holding and the judge criticizing her.
Winston Payne: 3/10. He's not a moron - he has a nice pathos in 4-1 - but he clearly draws the loser cases. Hard to rank for obvious reasons.
Miles Edgeworth: 8/10. Phoenix's rival -> he must have the same score. Seems to fit, anyway.
Manfred von Karma: 10/10. Well since the script says he's allowed to just boss the judge around, and nobody seems to care when he commits crimes in pursuit of winning his case, yeah, he's kinda unstoppable. Makes him a good villain, at least.
Franziska von Karma: 3/10. Unlike Elf, I'm not sure where he gets the competence vibe from. She's played almost as comic relief villainy, and is impetuous and immature - give an 18 year-old a grudge and absolute power and a license to attack people in the courtroom, I guess. And these flaws all come back to haunt her, repeatedly! Even in AAI, where she's theoretically some Interpol person, she lashes out on the wrong track several times out of deranged sibling rivalry. About the only thing she deserves "credit" for is JFA letting her amp up the judge penalties way high for insta-kills, but that's more a gameplay thing.
Godot: 3/10. Godot wants to mess with Phoenix, not particularly win his cases, yeah.
Klavier Gavin: 6/10. Hard to judge. On the evilness scale, Klavier is by far the most sympathetic prosecutor in the entire series, never pulling dickish moves, not "cheating" very much, etc. Anyway, see Apollo but subtract some points due to losing 4-2.
Gaspen Payne: 3/10? But really the police's fault, a bombing is serious business and they apparently forgot to investigate even remotely competently. BUT BUT we should disrespect him because he entirely rationally ran off after another bomb threat from someone who likely just performed a bombing?! Yeah no, come on guys. (It's not like there's any sane "escape" anyway if the worry is the witness running off.)
Simon Blackquill: 8/10. He puts on a good show in his cases, and he has the smarts to attempt to NOT call the obviously unreliable real-killer witness in 5-2. He has some fun moments in 5-5 too.
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Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete:
Hiro: 7/10.
Gwyn: 5/10.
Lucia: 3/10.
Ronfar: 6/10.
Jean: 7/10.
Lemina: 5/10.
Leo: 5/10.
RATE THAT LAWYER!
I'm inclined to vote them in the context of their ability to function within the confines of PW's system of law. It seems to be adversarial (so the job of prosecutors is to shoot down defense theories of the crime, while the job of the defense are to question the validity of evidence), but more notably we won't be judging based on The Ends Justify the Means :D tm
Ace Attorney Series:
Phoenix Wright: 8/10. Undeniably effective. That he doesn't let injustice go even when DISBARRED is a point, but while it's a necessary evil, he's pretty clearly violating PW evidence law during the trilogy, essentially blackmailing poor Gumshoe into telling him what's up.
Mia Fey: DNR. Trial lawyer in all of one case that's not even finished properly.
Apollo Justice: 6/10. Apollo doesn't have the savviness of Phoenix for piecing together theories of crime, but he's a hard worker who, thanks to his ability, knows where to press a witness in open testimony, so he's good at half the job and adequate at the other.
Athena Cykes: 3/10. Has moments, but largely needs a lot more seasoning. I'm still in awe that she was given so much latitude with Widget, even in PW logic.
Winston Payne: 3/10. He hardly ever does much beyond present the police's theory of the crime. Bare minimum guy, bare minimum.
Miles Edgeworth: 8/10. Pulls some fast ones on the legal system in the trilogy, but otherwise immensely competent. Has a knack for logicing out alternate theories of crimes before the defense can, and knowing where the holes are.
Manfred von Karma: 5/10. Terrifying definitely, and clearly quite competent without flagrantly breaking the law. But also flagrantly breaks the law and almost certainly got some convictions that were not deserved. Although we only know of this happening willfully once, which limits the damage; not his fault if he's better at punching down defenses than they are at validating evidence.
Franziska von Karma: 4/10. utterly unprofessional and fairly sloppy, but fairly good at making the defense work at least.
Godot: 2/10. It's like he's not even a trained prosecutor or something.
Klavier Gavin: 7/10. Little prone to doing the defense's work for them, but always stays competent in his role while he's at it at least.
Gaspen Payne: 2/10. A less ethical Winston.
Simon Blackquill: 8/10. "Try that again with some actual effort and evidence" is practically his catchphrase. Reacts quickly to defense theories, and is quite savvy to when his own evidence is weak and he needs better evidence. Unlike Klavier, when he's pretty sure the defense is on the right track, he basically sets up evidence for it to be shot down, forming more accurate theories as they go. He's basically the first time in the series we see how a PW trial is actually supposed to be conducted far as I can tell.
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Unlike Elf, I'm not sure where he gets the competence vibe from.
It's obvious we rate by different criteria (which is cool) but sure I can still respond to this.
(Spoilers for the whole series, duh.)
Franziska competence is made pretty apparent I felt? Franziska thoroughly destroys Phoenix in the early parts of 2-2, more decisively than any other prosuector ever does save Manfred. The photographic proof of Maya channelling stands out as particularly resourceful, but aside from that she just has the case set up incredibly well, to the point where she wins and the only reason the trial continues is because she herself asks for it to be drawn out to watch Phoenix suffer more! Now, I can see penalising her for this certainly (I assume it was what you were referring to about her immaturity coming back to haunt her); it would be much more prudent of her to just take her damn win, especially against the man who was good enough to defeat her previously undefeated brother (2 or 3 times depending on canon) and father. But for me the fact that she reaches this point is pretty impressive.
We only ever see Franziska actively prosecute one other case (3-5 doesn't really count), and I'd rate her 2-3 performance as competent, though unspecial. She doesn't really do anything to bungle this case and has her witnesses lined up well, and even takes advantage of Moe's annoying nature to get the judge to shorten the cross-examination. Unlike some other instances where the prosecutor says "HEY LET'S DO A HIGHER PENALTY JUST BECAUSE", this one actually feels justified in plot so I do give it some credit.
AAI's arguably not relevant to her rating but I just replayed it so I'll weigh in anyway. I think you're just misremembering here, honestly! She appears in three cases, and only in one (case 2) does she accuse anyone (Rhoda). There's an awful lot of evidence against Rhoda at this point, so it's hard to see why you'd fault her here, and since Edgeworth himself is not convinced of her innocence at this point, the reason certainly can't be sibling rivalry.
Franziska has three other instances in the game where she makes arguments. They are:
=She demands that Edgeworth prove his innocence in case 2. This is obviously a test to make sure he is able to clear himself of suspicion; if you actually think she believed Edgeworth was the killer then I don't know what to say.
-Her analaysis of the deaths of Rell and Faraday in case 4. She doesn't accuse anyone, merely tries to claim they murdered each other (as the scene was set up to look like). This isn't her best showing logic-wise but she's also thirteen.
-Finally, in case 5, her sole "cross-examination" consists of explaining her movements when she is falsely (in both senses of the word!) accused by Lang.
Speaking of which, I think you may be conflating Franziska with Lang here somehow? He's the one who makes several false accusations on very flimsy grounds, accusing Mike Meekins, Luaren Paups, and Larry Butz, all without much evidence (okay, until Lauren "confesses" at least). It's to the point where he goes on and makes a fourth accusation with paltry evidence (Franziska) I didn't even stop to think that this one might be fake because it was such a pattern by this point (despite him only being in two cases!).
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Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (haven't completed yet, so this may not be truly accurate):
Hiro: 7/10--Yeah, it's Hiro. I haven't gotten to the endgame spike, but as-is, the damage/speed combo is still solid enough to put him on the frontlines.
Gwyn: 4/10--While he was a Warm Body, he was also your healer for the first real dungeon of the game. Can't fault that too much. Having the only debuffs in the game feels like a bit of a downer, but so it goes.
Lucia: 10/10...for the very short segment where she's fully powered and can take on most things in short order. 3/10 in actuality, since you have a few issues. Always acting last being one of them, and depending on the AI to pick spells being another. Were she controllable, she might be worth another point or two, pending.
Ronfar: 6/10-- Healer. He can contribute fire magic damage early on as well thanks to Anger Dice, but that...eh. It gives him something other than basic attacks to use during randoms, at least.
Jean: 7/10-- Holy shit that speed. With it, she gets damage not dissimilar from Hiro, and almost always goes first. Having status options with early AoE doesn't hurt either, and fast status on yellow or green means at least a solid try for disabling a group.
Lemina: 5/10-- She can hit elements well enough, and synergizes nicely with crests for extra magic, but god damn that speed. She does get a whole 1/10 for the field dispel making certain bosses actually beatable (hi, Blue Fiend)
Leo: Temp/10--I know he joins later, but my current ranking puts him as a temp. Also as a slower Hiro that can take hits better and use (expensive) AoE. Not the best trade, I feel?
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Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete:
Hiro: 8/10
Gwyn: DNR
Lucia: 3/10
Ronfar: 4.5/10
Jean: 7/10
Lemina: 3/10
Leo: 5/10
Ace Attorney Series:
Phoenix Wright: 8/10
Mia Fey: DNR
Apollo Justice: 5/10
Athena Cykes: 6/10. Dismantles the 5-3 villain better than Apollo really does to anyone in any of his cases! She also contributes in some ways more than Apollo to the solving of 5-2.
Winston Payne: 3/10
Miles Edgeworth: 8/10
Manfred von Karma: 8/10
Franziska von Karma: 7/10
Godot: 1/10
Klavier Gavin: 6/10
Gaspen Payne: 3/10
Simon Blackquill: 7/10
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Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete:
Hiro: 8/10. Solid Main Character all around, etc.
Gwyn: 4/10. Warm Body healer. Not good, but could be worse for a temp.
Lucia: 3/10. Low damage, unreliable healing, can't be controlled, slow...the only reason she gets this high is because she's a 5th PC that would otherwise be an empty slot, and she's better than that.
Ronfar: 7/10. Healers in Lunar games are exceedingly vital, so yeah.
Jean: 6/10. Iffy status whore in first half, fast and primary damage dealer for most of the 2nd half...yeah, this works.
Lemina: 4/10. She's not awful, but not really good either before Catastrophe which is final dungeon only.
Leo: 6/10. He's rather solid but lack of availability means I can only give him so high.
Ace Attorney Series:
Phoenix Wright: 8/10. I don't hold AA5 too much against him since he just got back into the job, and thus is probably a bit rusty. That said, we see that by AA3, he's pretty much unstoppable, though he does need assistance here and there.
Mia Fey: DNR. yeah, what we see of her is not a good indicator of how good she is as an Attorney, so she gets a pass.
Apollo Justice: 5/10. Seemed kind of generic honestly.
Athena Cykes: 6/10. Considering she's got very little experience, she did pretty darn well for herself in her first case and unlike most, she was up against an actual prosecutor.
Winston Payne: 3/10. He sucks, there's a reason Rookies beat him regularly (or amnesiacs...)
Miles Edgeworth: 8/10. He's basically Phoenix's equal yet opposite. He's especially strong in 2-4 where his goal of "Truth" stands out because the guilty verdict is legit, and shows that Edgeworth when he's honest is actually way scarier than when he's forcing the verdict.
Manfred von Karma: 9.5/10. See Elfboy really, though, based on what the game implies, Manfred DID get one penalty, and there was clearly a flaw in his style in that it falls apart if something unexpected happens. Still, the chances of that happening are extremely low.
Franziska von Karma: 7/10. Watching 2-2 again, she really does have Phoenix on the ropes and in 3-5, she literally learned the entire case on a plane ride to the courtroom and still managed to hold her own. She's definitely competent
Godot: 3.5/10. More competent than Payne because he can at least get under people's skins, but that's really all he has going for him. Honestly, Fran being used in 3-5 to face Edgeworth felt absolutely necessary, because Edgeworth would have exposed Godot for the fraud he is and completely wrecked him; Fran at least managed to reciprocate a lot of Edgeworth's attacks.
Klavier Gavin: Abstain. Haven't played AJ, so haven't seen him in action.
Gaspen Payne: 3/10. Equal to his brother, the hairstyle is irrelevant here.
Simon Blackquill: 7/10. For someone who comes off as evil as he is, he is surprisingly honest and effective at his job. He lacks Fran's forcefulness of getting you in the corner, but is better at holding off until the very so I say it checks out.
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And thus, with a beck and call and...ok, I'll stop before I get out of hand and you guys throw the nearest large heavy object at me...
Lunar Eternal Blue Complete:
Average Std. Dev.
Hiro: 7.5 0.55
Gwyn: 4.2 1.76
Lucia: 2.83 0.41
Ronfar: 5.92 0.8
Jean: 6.83 0.41
Lemina: 4 0.89
Leo: 5.4 2.26
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.66
Best Rating of this Session: Hiro w/ 7.50
Worst Rating of this Session: Lucia w/ 2.83
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT LAWYER!
Ace Attorney Series:
Average Std. Dev.
Phoenix Wright: 8 0
Mia Fey: N/A N/A
Apollo Justice: 5.6 0.89
Athena Cykes: 4.6 1.52
Winston Payne: 3 0
Miles Edgeworth: 8.2 0.45
Manfred von Karma: 8.5 2.12
Franziska von Karma: 5.9 2.3
Godot: 2.2 0.84
Klavier Gavin: 5.88 2.77
Gaspen Payne: 2.8 0.45
Simon Blackquill: 7.4 0.55
The next game I have decided to do is retro...then go more retro in another bonus round!
"But Meeple! That Bonus Round game came out after the mainline game by about a year!" to which I say shut up, and argument invalid because Turnips.
Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O:
Thief-O:
Blackbelt-O:
Red Mage-O:
White Mage-O:
Black Mage-O:
Warrior-A:
Thief-A:
Monk-A:
Red Mage-A:
White Mage-A:
Black Mage-A:
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT PLATFORMING CHARACTER!!!!
Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario:
Luigi:
Toad:
Peach:
A few things to note:
First off, yes, I know her name is Toadstool in SMB2, but she's been Peach for long enough, and frankly, it just looks better in terms of name distinguishing that her name is Peach her when Toad is right above it. This is no different than me calling the character Deis in BoF1/2!
More importantly, FF1, like FF4, has a bit of a vote split scenario. While there are differences between the NES and Origins version, I feel the differences are kind of marginal, while that is clearly not the case in the GBA and PSP versions. As a result, I am lumping the former two together, and the latter two together (GBA and PSP I believe are identical for these purposes even.) I know there are technically other versions like the mobile versions but don't think anyone has actually played those <_<
As a result, the "O" refers to "Origins" and "Original" which is why I used that, so only rate those ones based on the NES and Origins version. The "A" refers to "Advance", which is the GBA and PSP versions.
ALSO:
Do not rate O based on Easy Mode. It's called Easy Mode for a reason; this is based on Normal mode only for Origins.
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"But Meeple! That Bonus Round game came out after the mainline game by about a year!"
Not in North America, it didn't!
Fighter-O: 9/10. Fighter is kind of dumb. Ridiculous HP, ridiculous defence much of the time, great elemental defence too... i.e. he's the king tank and you need this in FF1. Oh and he's great at damage too. No real weaknesses beyond that if you have 3-4 of them they start kinda suffering for equipment, but the fact that this is even a serious consideration (which it certainly isn't for any other class!) says much.
Thief-O: 1.5/10. I'll give him above a 1 because Haste is a good spell and he does pick it up, along with better equipment/damage than Red Wizard, late in the game. Basically, Ninja is okay and saves this class. Thief is awful, 0/10 material. Fighter with way worse everything, or spellless Red Mage with worse everything except HP, take your pick. Either way it's gross.
Blackbelt-O: 4/10. Has the best damage (well, sometimes fighter has more), but kinda fragile and nothing but damage, and the damage isn't always that great (in particular it nosedives against high def).
Red Mage-O: 7.5/10. Has a bit of everything. Second to third best durability, okay damage, a bit of everything skillset-wise... in particular you want someone with Exit and Life and Haste and hey RM gets all three.
White Mage-O: 5/10. Red Mage who trades away offence (except against undead) and Haste for having Life before promotion, and a few other niche spells like the L7 healing charges. It's a losing trade, certainly, but not a terrible one.
Black Mage-O: 4/10. The extra spell charges over RM definitely do matter, as an extra shot or two of the highest black spell at any point from level 3 onwards really matters (they lay waste to randoms, and Flare is great against lategame bosses for the 1-2 shots you have). However, lower durability, lower spammable damage, and lack of white magic all mean he's clearly a worse choice.
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT PLATFORMING CHARACTER!!!!
Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario: 5.5/10. I kinda like Mario, he can make 4-panel vertical jumps and is speedy if I'm actually interested in that.
Luigi: 5.5/10. I go back and forth on whether I prefer Mario or Luigi. Mario's the all-rounder, Luigi has the amazing vertical jumping (and pretty great horizontal) but controls terribly.
Toad: 2/10. I don't have much good to say about Toad. Mario who can't jump worth shit. I can't think of many places I'd value his even greater digging/carrying speed than Mario's, not enough to make up for how much trouble he just has platforming.
Peach: 8/10. Well she has stat weaknesses (can't make 4-panel vertical jumps, slow at grabbing things) but goodness hover is so broken. Luigi's long jumping for skipping some parts of levels, but the control is amazing instead of awful. Makes a mockery of several bosses where she can just hover above their projectiles, too.
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Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario: He is good at everything though never the best at anything, 6/10 works
Luigi: Jumps are cool, the controls are not. 5/10
Toad: lol. 2/10
Peach: hover lolz at the game, who cares if everything else is a pile of meh. 8/10
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Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O: 9.5/10
Thief-O: 2/10
Blackbelt-O: 3/10
Red Mage-O: 8/10
White Mage-O: 6/10
Black Mage-O: 5/10
Warrior-A: 9/10
Thief-A: 4/10
Monk-A: 4/10
Red Mage-A: 4/10
White Mage-A: 6/10
Black Mage-A: 6/10
A little hazier on DoS, so I might be wrong.
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT PLATFORMING CHARACTER!!!!
Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario: 5/10
Luigi: 6.5/10
Toad: 2/10
Peach 8.5/10
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Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O: 9/10 - Ridic, obsoleting everyone.
Thief-O: 2/10 - Sure, Haste hype.
Blackbelt-O: 3.5/10 - Cheaper than another Fighter means he has theoretical use, but I'd sooner use another Fighter.
Red Mage-O: 7.5/10 - Really the only other class you'd need besides 3 Fighters to just rape the game.
White Mage-O: 5.5/10 - Useable!
Black Mage-O: 4.5/10 - Useable, but not as good as WHM or RDM
Warrior-A: 8.5/10 - Still really good!!!!~
Thief-A: 4/10 - Oh hai can I play with you guyz now?
Monk-A: 3.5/10 - I haven't really changed, and may need to be bumped down since cheaper isn't really an issue?
Red Mage-A: 5/10 - Magic works now, so not specializing kinda sucks, still usable!
White Mage-A: 6/10 - Not a Fighter is your only real problem, otherwise you are a serviceable healbot
Black Mage-A: 6/10 - Someone's gotta be doing your crowd control, and RDM is slackin'.
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT PLATFORMING CHARACTER!!!!
Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario: 5/10
Luigi: 6/10
Toad: 2/10
Peach: 8/10
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Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O: 9/10. The problem with "tank" characters in your average turn-based RPG is that there's often no way to draw enemy attacks to them, or if there is it costs a turn, which makes characters like XS1 Ziggy or SMRPG Bowser less inspiring than they could be. FF1 has the magical "first slot eats 50% of attacks" feature, so having a supreme tank there is incredibly useful! And having TWO tanks in slots 1 & 2 mean that 75% of all enemy attacks are smashing a Fighter! They don't actually need decent spammable offense, but oh by the way they have that too, so sign me up.
Thief-O: 2/10 When I played the game as a kid, I thought that Thief had a % chance of running buff. Alas that this isn't actually true.
Blackbelt-O: 5/10. XP grind rather than gold grind dependent, bleh.
Red Mage-O: 7/10 - See Elf, a little bit of everything, and respectable durability / physicals when conserving spell charges.
White Mage-O: 6/10. See Elf.
Black Mage-O: 4/10 - They crush bosses but don't have enough spell charges to really carry any weight vs. randoms.
Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario: 4/10. Fastest, but don't really care, no clock.
Luigi: 8/10. Jump-premacy. Yeah the control is weird but I got around that by always picking Luigi and getting used to it, and once you know it, there are actually advantages to Luigi's spaziness.
Toad: 2/10. Having to kneel for super-jumps way more often? Pass.
Peach: 7/10. Hover is broken, yes, especially in World 4 (the icy levels). That pickup speed is insanely slow but whatever.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O: 10/10. Uber broken in just about every way that matters. The pack catches up to them a little lategame, but the hardest part of FF1 is early.
Thief-O: 0/10. The other end. I disagree with Elfboy here. Haste is nice in theory, but two better classes have it and thief actively hurts your party for the most difficult sections of the game.
Blackbelt-O: 1/10. They're cheap, which is nice. Mostly they have eh offense against things that matter. I would respect them more as boss slayers if temper wasn't glitched in the NES version.
Red Mage-O: 8.5/10. They have a pretty large advantage in defense in the parts of the game that matter. They are fine post classchange as well, they can coast on the fourth best physical late (Still solid!) and haste. They get a ton of ultility spells as well.
White Mage-O: 4/10. Total dead weight outside of two parts: Chaos and the Ice Cave/Volcano, where you really want Life. That said, those two niches are freaking awesome to have, so.
Black Mage-O: 4/10. Durability of paper. One advantage they do have is the extra charges early, which are a godsend against Wizards.
FF1 PSX, since this changes things slightly. Don't bother scoring this Meeple.
Fighter-PSX: 9.5/10. Other classes catch up to them. They are still savagely broken, but not 'use at least two' broken.
Thief-PSX- 0/10. Still activerly hurts the party.
Blackbelt-PSX- 2/10. Temper and Saber are fixed, which means they are quite good at smashing bosses. Too bad the other issues (Bad against high def, can't really take hits) still apply.
Red Mage PSX- 9/10. Unglitched Temper. It's that freaking good. Still awesome when it matters.
White Mage PSX- 4/10. Basically the same as NES, except they can revive in battle now. The offense is such shit.
Black Mage PSX- 5/10. Temper.
Dawn of Souls: Ignoring DoS bonus caves, those are their own thing.
Fighter: 7/10. MDef is a problem now, but still has those awesome equips. Physical's also been eclipsed to an extent.
Thief: 4/10. Been gimmicked up to be okay. Still an inferior fighter/Monk.
Monk: 7/10. Offense has been vastly improved. higher levels benefit them the most by a mile.
Red Mage: 3.5/10. Their attack magic's been savagely nerfed and thiefs/monks crush them for physicals now. Sad.
White Mage: 4/10. Eh. Ethers mean they can heal forever but that's it.
Black Mage: 7/10. OHKOs almost every random in the game once you hit Elfland. Durability of paper but who cares, higher level curve in DoS means they can take more hits.
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Fighter-O: 9.5/10. Fighter is the best class in the game by far, the only reason Fighter is not a 10 is because there isn't enough high-end equipment in the game to properly gear out more than two of them, pretty much. Gamebest ST offense (which is what ultimately matters in FF1), gamebest defense, their only real weakness (being expensive to equip) vanishes halfway through the game.
Thief-O: 0.5/10. He gets the half point because of Ninja, which is a strictly worse Knight that can cast Haste. But only half a point, because for the entire pre-promotion game he is only marginally better than an empty slot.
Black Belt-O: 5/10. Black Belt only eclipses Fighter in damage at much higher levels than you actually need to finish the game, and I don't particularly care that he does gamebest offense when overleveled. Then his defense is shitty too. Meh. -2 points on NES due to nonfunctional Temper.
Red Mage: 8/10. Hits almost as hard as Fighter for the majority of the game, has serviceable defense and can use almost all of the magic that actually matters. Falls off some lategame, but still good for randoms.
White Mage: 7.5/10. Pretty awful at offense until you get Thor Hammer, at which point they itemcast it forever. Anyone else can do this, but anyone else would rather be doing something else, and thor hammer itemcast isn't awful. Defensively awful most of the game but they sit in the back so eh. Their biggest values are pre-promotion LIFE and, if playing the NES version, bugged HEL2 (thus on Origins specifically I'd be fine with dropping them half a point), and of course CUR4 for the lategame bosses.
Black Mage: 3/10. Game-worst survivability, doesn't use offensive magic better than Red Mage until the very endgame, and NUKE isn't even very good anyway (don't get enough charges of it at reasonable levels to care). In the original game there is no reason to ever use one over Red Mage.
(For what it's worth, my favorite party in the original version is Fighter/Fighter/Red Mage/White Mage.)
Warrior-A: 9.5/10. Has not gotten any worse at all.
Thief-A: 7/10. Yeah, I'm willing to go this high for DoS Thief. For one, DoS gave thief 4 hit% per level compared to the original game's 2, so for much of the early game (up to about Lich or so) he either matches or even slightly outperforms the Warrior offensively. Warrior's weapon options pull ahead definitively after Lich, though, then Ninja rams into the Hit% cap, Excalibur appears, and anyway Knight is unquestionably better at lategame. Still, Ninja can throw Temper and Haste around, and makes a good Masamune user (especially if you're low enough level that the Knight hasn't hit capped? haha) so I can only rate it so low.
Monk-A: 5/10. Not bad but easily the worst of the physical-oriented PCs. Hasn't appreciably changed much from the original game, including the dependence on being overleveled.
Red Mage-A: 7.5/10. Still hits almost as hard as Fighter for the majority of the game, has serviceable defense and can use almost all of the magic that actually matters, while falling off some lategame. He loses the half point largely because the falloff is a little bigger and he actually casts notably worse than the other mages now due to Intelligence doing something.
White Mage-A: 7.5/10. Still pretty awful at offense until you get the hammer, whatever it's called now, at which point they itemcast it forever. Pre-promotion Life is still good, and Healaga is a crazy good spell now that INT affects it (in particular, Healaga is the spell that makes lowish level runs not rage-worthy). You can certainly go without them, but having one makes the game pretty much a cakewalk as opposed to just moderately easy.
Black Mage-A: 6/10. Still game-worst survivability, but now uses offensive magic notably better than Red Mage and Flare no longer sucks. Better than Red Mage lategame, but Red Mage's physical prowess leaves him ahead of Black for a very large chunk of the game still IMO.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O: 9/10 - Fighter is a textbook 9.
Thief-O: 2/10 - Herp derp FF1 thief.
Blackbelt-O: 5/10 - Honestly, I feel BB is generally underrated in FF1, but that being said it still only gets a 5. BB just does what it does REALLY well.
Red Mage-O: 6/10 - Definitely second best char in the game, so many options and access to most of the stuff you want. Two Reds is a better choice then Black/White, though I'd prolly call Red/White a better choice still.
White Mage-O: 6/10 - Gate overvalues healing, this is nothing new
Black Mage-O: 4/10 - Runs out of juice too fast for my tastes.
Warrior-A: 8/10 - Fighter's lead narrows a bit in DoS, imo.
Thief-A: 3/10 - Thief is no longer complete shit. Still not worth spending a party slot on.
Monk-A: 5/10 - Feels largely unchanged.
Red Mage-A: 3/10. Falls off sharply compared to the other two, especially now that MP healing is a thing that exists.
White Mage-A: 6/10. Feels largely unchanged, just can do it's job more often.
Black Mage-A: 7/10. Now can actually do it's damn job. And does it very well.
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Lowered BB's score in the NES and PSX version. Holy hell are they useless.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Fighter-O: 9.5/10. The only thing holding them back from a 10/10 is the rare high defense enemy early game, and lack of revival for cheap deaths like Sorcerers, making you want at least one Red Mage or White Mage in your team.
Thief-O: 2/10. Hey guys, he can cast Fast with good defense and attack in the second half of the game! Pity Red Mage can do pretty much everything he can do, with the only downside being worse defenses, whcih frankly, MT damage, Healing, and not sucking in the first half more than make up for.
Blackbelt-O: 3/10. They can hit really hard on low defense, but they suck early game due to unreliable weapons, and high defense reams them at all points.
Red Mage-O: 8/10. Hard to think of a moment where they aren't effective. Honestly, in most games, Red Mage would probably be 6/10 Material, but considering the competition, their use is heightened significantly.
White Mage-O: 6/10. Early life and more uses of it are good, Harm is nice for clearing out Undead cheaply, not much beyond that; like Red Mage, it'd probably be 2 points lower in most other games, but this is FF1.
Black Mage-O: 3/10. Red Mage is better than it in just about everyway, but I can at least respect earlier access to some higher level spells (and more shots of them) that nab it some use here and there...but that's really not enough.
Warrior-A: 8/10. I don't think Warrior changed at all from previous versions, it's more that the other jobs got notably better.
Thief-A: 5/10. His offense actually beats Warrior at many points, especially if you do the extra dungeons where-in it covers the early weapon woes, and No-Early Mithril Sword means his offense isn't notably lagging thanks to weapons either. As a Ninja, his defense is only marginally below Knight's, and he's an extra Haste and Temper user. Honestly, I think people are underselling his worth here, as they are in fact effective.
Monk-A: 7/10. Best ST damage in the game by a long shot, but one trick pony does hold him back a bit.
Red Mage-A: 3/10. OUCH. Way less offense than Black Mage, it's almost not worth using offensive magic on him, and his durability and rate of spell aquisition is way worse than White Mage. The Jack of All Trades thing really doesn't pay off here, and worse, the Mithril Sword is much later meaning his physicals aren't even that special.
White Mage-A: 6/10. Effective healer with a lot of useful support spells, and Holy is even good for MT damage that can be used constantly thanks to Ethers. Item casts work during that small stretch where they exist but you don't know Holy yet.
Black Mage-A: 5/10. Temper and Haste are really damned good, and he's the best user of them. MT damage is appreciably the best of any character for pretty much the entire game, and due to the MP system, he can legitimately spam magic. Still has durability woes granted, which hold him back a bit.
BONUS ROUND: RATE THAT PLATFORMING CHARACTER!!!!
Super Mario Bros 2:
Mario: 7/10. Nice and easy to use.
Luigi: 6/10. His lack of friction I find more of a hindrance than his length of jump.
Toad: 3/10. HE RUNS FAST! ...I got nothing...
Peach: 9/10. Uh, yeah, those lack of stats are kind of hard to care about when Floating is easily the best gimmick of any character by far.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Warrior-A: 8/10.
Thief-A: 2/10
Monk-A: 2/10
Red Mage-A: 3/10
White Mage-A: 7/10
Black Mage-A: 5/10
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This Post brought to you by Twitch Plays Pokemon! ...well, no, not really, but I like to pretend that is the case!
Average STDEVA
Fighter-O 9.31 0.37
Thief-O 1.5 0.8
Blackbelt-O 3.69 1.39
Red Mage-O 7.56 0.78
White Mage-O 5.75 1
Black Mage-O 3.94 0.68
Warrior-A 8.29 0.81
Thief-A 4.14 1.57
Monk-A 4.79 1.82
Red Mage-A 4.14 1.65
White Mage-A 6.07 1.1
Black Mage-A 6 0.82
Standard Deviation Original 2.84
Standard Deviation Advanced 1.58
Standard Deviation Full 2.2
BONUS ROUND!!
Super Mario Bros. 2:
Average STDEVA
Mario 5.58 0.8
Luigi 6.17 1.03
Toad 2.17 0.41
Peach 8.08 0.66
Standard Deviation: 2.46
Not bothering with game best, and game worst because THEY'RE LISTED ABOVE IN ITALLICS AND BOLDING AND ARGH WHY AM I OVERREACTING!?!?
...so yeah, about that twitch plays pokemon thing? I feel there is no better appropriate time to start this than now!
Pokemon Generation 2 Normal Types:
Pidgeot:
Raticate:
Fearow:
Clefable:
Wigglytuff:
Persian:
Farfetch'd:
Dodrio:
Lickitung:
Kangaskahn:
Tauros:
Ditto:
Snorlax:
Furret:
Noctowl:
Togetic:
Aipom:
Girafarig:
Dunsparce:
Granbull:
Ursaring:
Porygon2:
Stantler:
Smeargle:
Blissey:
NOTE: The above is to be rated based on Gold/Silver/Crystal. If this turns out to not work, I will...uhh...figure something out!
NOTE 2: Order is based off Pokemon National Dex Numbering because that's how Serebii has them listed (also easier to keep track of)
NOTE 3: I'm aware some of these things don't exist in the maingame but I can't be be bothered to crosscheck everything, so screw it, do whatever you want here, just "Gotta be Gen 2 standards" is the one stipulation. If you think something doesn't exist and not fair to rate it, simply DNR it!
NOTE 4: TOP PERCENTILE RATINGS ARE BANNED!!!
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Pokemon Generation 2 Normal Types:
Pidgeot: 8.5/10 - Early to get, evolves quickly, has 3 evolutions, 2 STAB typings, and 2 immunities. It's a pretty solid Jeigan and can last the whole game (as TPP proved in RBY).
Raticate: 6/10 - Earlygame, evolves quickly, not nearly as good as Pidgey, but has a few decent moves.
Fearow: 8 - Also fairly early but only 2 evolution stages, honestly not much worse than Pidgeot from what I remember.
Clefable: 4 - Not as early, kinda junky. Stone evolutions can be useful as Jeigans really early on but then you are screwing yourself out of a well-trained monster later. Need one to get all the BABIES~
Wigglytuff: 4.5 - Same as Clefable from what I can tell, but I like abusing Sing earlygame.
Persian: 3.5 - Solid enough, but late
Farfetch'd: 3 - Rare, late, doesn't evolve! Three for Stick hype and HM Slave usefulness?
Dodrio: 2 - Later still, and not that good. Tri-Attack and Fly are something?
Lickitung: Lick~/10 - (3.5/10) - Late and doesn't evolve.
Kangaskahn: 4/10 - Later and doesn't evolve but has better stats?
Tauros: 4/10
Ditto: 9/10 - Terrible in battle, but if characters like Shir get points for things like giving you the Save feature, Ditto deserves credit for making the Breeding function of the game usable.
Snorlax: 5/10 - Bulk has its uses!
Furret: 6.5 - Earlygame and fast. Probably the best HM Slave available?
Noctowl: 8 - Earlygame, flies, decent type coverage. From Normals, your best bet is usually to get them early and use them as Jeigans and hope to power through the later parts with them. Noctowl does this well.
Togetic: 4 - Ugh, unlike Togecrap. It's lucky it got a new evolution later.
Aipom: 3 - As is this guy.
Girafarig: 6 - Hey, it's a dual-type! That's something!
Dunsparce: 1/10 - lol I love you, Dunsparce, keep on keepin on.
Granbull: 3 - I hate this thing, it's lucky it's been retyped Fairy. Worst dog 'mon.
Ursaring: 6.5 - Hey, you're quite usable!
Porygon2: 2 - And you've got some neat tricks! EDIT: Changed score, forgot it was Kanto-only.
Stantler: 5 - What is this, being useful?
Smeargle: 7 - Gimmick/10 but an interesting gimmick.
Blissey: 7/10 - The only normal you should really be using. Minus points for being Kanto-only, but it is damn good.
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Trying not to be a mega dick, but you think breeding is an in game use worthy of a 9? How much do you actually breed in game Djinn?
In game.
IN. GAME.
Edit - I do think the only points Ditto should get are for it, I just wonder if you approach the game differently than I do.
Edit 2 - Aaaahhhhhhhhh fuck. I realize I fucked up delivery there :(. That was supposed to be emphatically specifying in game breeding not in game use. Sorry Djinn.
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Pokemon Generation 2 Normal Types:
Pidgeot: 4 -Passable, but it's outclassed by just about anything that can learn normal moves. Its flying movepool is somewhat limited. Final evolution is too late at L36.
Raticate: 7 - Mostly used early on, but it can actually carry you most of the game. Since GSC's levels curve lower, STAB Hyper Fang is pretty nasty for a long time.
Spearow: 6 - Decent Fly slave, and packs a bit more punch than Pidgey. Drill Peck comes late but is nice when it does.
Clefairy: 2 - Waste of TMs/stones, but not completely horrible.
Wigglytuff: 2 - Effectively the same as Clefairy. By the time you can get these guys good, you probably have other things that work better.
Persian: 2 - Too late, too much competition. Slash nerf hurts Persian horribly.
Farfetch'd: 3 - Good HM Slave overall
Dodrio: 2 - Would be the most useful of the Normal/Flyings by a considerable measure, but you get it in Kanto.
Lickitung: 1 - Lickiiii
Kangaskahn: 1 - ROCK TUNNEL
Tauros: 6/10 - It's serviceable, but not nearly as powerful as in RBY for a variety of reasons. You get it before Olivine, so that's nice.
Ditto: 4/10 - All points are for breeding, which isn't always useful in-game but he's practically necessary for it if you want to do it.
Snorlax: 6/10 - You get him late, but he's unlikely to ever die and he hits decently hard
Furret: 5 - Nice HM slave, kind of loses to Rattata as an attacker.
Noctowl: 4 - It's Pidgey only weaker, but it can get more HMs. Pick your poison.
Togetic: 1 - Completely worthless and sort of a project character.
Aipom: 1 - Can't evolve yet, so he's a total scrub.
Girafarig: 5 - Decent enough Physical and Special attacker. Will probably be replaced by end-game.
Dunsparce: 1 - <3 Dunsparce. if he weren't so rare maybe I'd bump him up, but there are just better choices.
Granbull: 3 - I dunno why you'd use it over Rattata but it's all right I suppose.
Ursaring: 7 - A little slow, but it's pretty practical considering how early you'll get it. Good attack power.
Porygon2: 1 - Kanto, Game corner, required trade... yeah, not happening. DNR practically.
Stantler: 5 - See Girafarig pretty much.
Smeargle: 1 - Way too much trouble to use in-game. He's like Gau if Gau could at best do half the damage the rest of the team did.
Miltank: 7 - Bulky, faster than you'd think, and learns decent attacks. Good choice really.
Blissey: 2 - Kanto and Rare. Pretty good if you manage to snag one, but who would?
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needs more Miltank/10, will maybe unlazy and actually try to remember what half these things were even capable of doing sometime later
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So it's been awhile since I've played GSC, and my memory is shaky on when things show up. Going off gut for alot of stuff.
Pokemon Generation 2 Normal Types:
Pidgeot: 5/10 - Decidedly average, imo. Gets the job done, but isn't really inspiring at all.
Raticate: 5/10 - Earlygame heavy duty attacker, not bad. No real staying power for the lategame, though.
Fearow: 5/10 - Better moves then Pidgeot, but not as much staying power. Same score works I guess.
Clefable: 3/10 - It's got some chuft, which is pretty good. But that innate moveset is bad. Needs TMs to be decent, and pre gen 5, that is not a selling point.
Wigglytuff: 5/10. - Gets two points over Clefable for being even bulkier, and getting Body Slam and Double Edge, which can actually do some work.
Persian: 2/10 - Too little, too late.
Farfetch'd: 2/10 - Just plain too little.
Dodrio: 6/10 - Tri Attack, Drill Peck and better stats then the earlier birds. Would be higher, but iirc it's pretty late before you can get one?
Lickitung: 1/10 - Why do you exist.
Kangaskahn: 3/10 - Good 'mon, but way too late to care about.
Tauros: 6/10 - Heavy hitter, and you can get one earlier then you could in RBY.
Ditto: 1/10 - I never care about breeding until aftergame.
Snorlax: 7/10 - If you're using a normal type for slugging, this is your guy.
Furret: 4/10 - Raticate minus, really. Aside from being cuter~
Noctowl: 3/10 - Pidgeot minus.
Togetic: 1/10 - This line doesn't become worth it until gen 4.
Aipom: 1/10 - Why do you exist.
Girafarig: 6/10 - Can attack on both stats pretty well, and iirc gets some good STABs on normal and psychic. Not bad at all.
Dunsparce: 1/10 - WHY DO YOU EXIST
Granbull: 2/10 - Innate moveset is garbage, but better then the 1/10 crowd I suppose.
Ursaring: 6/10 - Would overtake Snorlax as the best slugging normal type if it got better moves before Thrash.
Porygon2: 2/10 - If you can get one, it's not bad. Big if, though.
Stantler: 5/10 - Solid enough to last awhile in game, sure.
Smeargle: 1/10 - In game use for Smeargle? Yeah, no.
Miltank: 6/10 - Pretty solid, actually. Same score as Tauros feels right?
Blissey: 4/10 - Really good if you can get one. Rarity hurts pretty bad, though.
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Pokemon Generation 2 Normal Types:
Pidgeot: Honestly kind of middling. Sure it can last the whole game but so can a lot of things. 4/10.
Raticate: Early STAB Hyper Fang is something, sure. Falls off though. 5.5/10
Fearow: Better attacker than Pidgey, though worse defensively. "Only two evo stages" isn't actually a mark against Fearow here since its stats are comparable to Pidgeot and it gets those at Lv20 instead of Lv36. As is... sure, flying rat. 5.5/10
Clefable: Bad moveset and Kanto only, no. 2/10.
Wigglytuff: Well you can actually get a Jigglypuff before Kanto if you're playing Crystal, that's something at least. 4/10.
Persian: Not worth raising a Meowth for. 2/10.
Farfetch'd: It's Farfetch'd. 2/10
Dodrio: Good bird, but you have to wait until the E4 for one, which hurts a bit. 5/10
Lickitung: It's Lickitung. 1/10
Kangaskahn: Rare in and in the Rock Tunnel. 2/10.
Tauros: Solid attacker. 6/10.
Ditto: Yeah not really feeling like giving out any points for breeding. 0/10.
Snorlax: Good but can't get one until Kanto, which again hurts a bit. 5/10.
Furret: Serviceable HM slave and little else. 4/10.
Noctowl: Pidgey the nocturnal version. e: that apparently fails at having an attack stat. 3/10
Togetic: Yeah no. 1/10
Aipom: Come back when you get an evolution. 1/10.
Girafarig: Okay hybrid attacker. 5/10.
Dunsparce: rofl. 1/10.
Granbull: What a waste of an attack stat. 2/10.
Ursaring: Apparently you can grab a Teddiursa really early in Crystal so that's cool. Not the best thing ever but it's workable. 6/10.
Porygon2: Game corner. No. 1/10.
Stantler: Earlier Girafarig that honestly always stuck me as kind of worse, though not actively bad. 4/10.
Smeargle: Unlike this scrub, who is just awful. 0/10
Miltank: More defensive version of Tauros. 6/10
Blissey: Late and rare. Good if you can get one I guess but that's a big if. 2/10.
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General thoughts: Normal types have really favorable STAB options in GSC; Headbutt in Ilex Forest (+ more buyable in Goldenrod), Strength in Olivine, and one Return a week; earlygame joiners can reliably max out their happiness in time for the E4. Meanwhile a lot of the good TMs in from gen 1 (Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Rock Slide, Body Slam) are gone, Blizzard/Thunder/Fire Blast are crazy expensive, and Earthquake is near the end of Victory Road. Pretty much every type besides Normal and Water is dependent on their natural moves and maybe element punch compatability to get any sort of decent STAB, and a lot of them lose this lottery. This makes Normal types with mediocre stats better than mediocre-statted Pokemon of other types.
Every gym leader in Kanto is trash in GSC except Blue and he isn't really great, so really Kanto-only mons are only relevant for facing Red.
"Relies on TMs" is not a problem if you have element punch access and decent special: those are cheap, infinitely buyable, and have acceptable power. With Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower not TMs at all in gen 2 those three + Surf are core in-game special TMs.
Pidgeot: 5/10. Early Sand Attack is its only real selling point compared to other birds, in a game where Mud Slap is the first gym TM. I guess Mud Slap doesn't work on fliers but how often is this going to matter before Lance (and 99% of people will either drop Pidgeot by then, or just OHKO his team with something like Alakazam or Suicune). Longterm its stats and movepool are clearly inferior to Fearow and Dodrio but still usable and early enough to except a maxed Return for lategame.
Raticate: 6.5/10. Normal is a really good offensive type for in-game with infinitely renewable Return TMs for lategame, while Hyper Fang is nuts when you first get it. Not much coverage though, especially with Dig nerfed.
Fearow: 6/10. Better stat build than Pidgeot, Drill Peck eventually is nice. Worse than Raticate since there's no Hyper Fang phase, though hitting weakness on some stuff is nice.
Clefable: 1.5/10. Only way to get one maingame is to soft reset for the Odd Egg... yeah no. A shame, it'd be really good otherwise.
Wigglytuff: 5/10. Element punches + Shadow Ball + Strength, that's pretty much the meaningful Johto TMs except Surf (and Earthquake for the last bit). Stats are horribly mediocre though.
Persian: 4/10. Route left of Ecruteak isn't so bad for availability, but with the Slash nerf there's not much going for it.
Farfetch'd: 3/10, I'm being nice to it for HM slaving.
Dodrio: 3/10. Nice stats, but only available at L30 right before Victory Road is not a winning formula.
Lickitung: 2/10. Strength + element punches is nice, but those stats are really not salvagable.
Kangaskhan: 1/10. Postgame only and underlevelled? Yeah right.
Tauros: 8/10. Reasonably early, great stats, can get Earthquake to demolish Normal resists lategame. Surf off 40 SpAtk is pretty garbage but can probably Ko a few underlevelled Gravellers since this is Johto.
Ditto: 0.5/10. I actually had to breed in Pokeniu to get a Sunflora with both Mega Drain and Razor Leaf for early/midgame. Realistically though, 99.99% of players are never going to breed in-game, and Ditto is worthless outside of breeding.
Furret: 6/10. Worse than Raticate but not by that much. Normally I'd mock Surf off 45 SpAtk, but with Johto's level curve you could probably 2HKO some underlevelled Gravellers.
Noctowl: 2.5/10. Guys, he has 50 base attack vs Pidgeot's 80. That's significantly worse, with only Hypnosis and special bulk to make up for this until Dream Eater at stupidly high levels. It has its uses when you are intentionally making a team of all garbage Pokemon *cough* so I can't score it too low, but it's still pretty bad.
EDIT: After checking some faqs, I just realized that Noctowl can learn Flash in gen 2 where it is 70 acc but not in gen 4 where it is 100 acc. GAAAAAAAAAMMEEEEEEFREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAK
Togeti: 1.5/10. I'll give it half a point for not being total bottom of the barrel in Pokeniu, and that's probably being generous.
Aipom: 2/10. As quite possibly the only person here to have ever used an Aipom in-game, I feel the need to comment here specifically. Aipom is surprisingly competent at sweeping randoms in this gen, both wild and trainer, because Normal is that good of an attack type for much of in-game. High speed and STAB strength right off the bat go farther than you might expect, unless you remember how sad the level curve is in GSC. Flipside, it's almost completely useless vs bosses and almost every other physical normal type outclasses it, usually by enormous margins, so the rating is still bad. I just can't quite bring myself to say 1/10 bad.
Girafarig: 6/10. Competent, but a bit too late for me to give it credit for full power Return.
Dunsparce: 3/10. Pretty average, except for that awful 1% encounter rate.
Granbull: 5.5/10. Apparantly its availability is actually decent in Crystal (30% rate on the route before Goldenrod in daytime). Speed kinda sucks, but otherwise respectable.
Ursaring: 7/10. Never actually used one before, but it's apparantly available really early in Crystal and its lategame performance is definately outstanding, with 130 attack, STAB Strength/Return, and enough special attack to make the element punches credible options. Speed is bad but 55 isn't completely unusable, at least.
More later, need to look up where some of this stuff is actually found in-game.
Porygon2: 1/10, yeah no to it.
Stantler: 6/10. Better stats than Furret but comes much later, not thinking too much on this.
Smeargle: 1/10. You can probably get Sleep Powder on it with fairly little effort, but that's about it.
Miltank: 7.5/10. Largely inferior stat spread to Tauros for in-game, but Milk Drink is nice.
Blissey: 1/10. Not only is it postgame only, not only is it really hard to catch, but it has NO OFFENSE WHATSOEVER before it evolves, thanks to 35 special attack and no Seismic Toss in GSC.
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Just a note:
This session will probably be extended a week, since this week has been hectic for me and this weekend is basically swamped, etc. No, this won't be a common thing, but I feel it needs to be done now. So expect an update on the 22nd.
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Haven't done ratings myself yet...even with the extension...I am a bad person! I will update tonight, don't worry. Also, I forgot to put Miltank on my original list, so if you already rated and haven't done Miltank, you still have a chance. If you do add Miltank, I request you simply post giving me an indicator that you did it so I know.
Pidgeot: 5/10. Gets the job done as a "Fly Slave", but kind of unimpressive otherwise.
Raticate: 6/10. Good early game thing, lasts mid-game, not much else.
Fearow: 7/10. What Pidgeot wants to be.
Clefable: 2/10. Lacks anything that made it worthwhile in Gen 1.
Wigglytuff: 5/10. Less lacking in those things!
Persian: 3/10. It's fast and...uhh...yeah, that's about it -_-
Farfetch'd: 3/10. Cut + Fly Slave potential, that's about all the credit I can give it.
Dodrio: 3/10. On Paper, should kick the crap out of Fearow, but availability murders it's rankings relative to other gens.
Lickitung: 1/10. Sucks.
Kangaskahn: 2/10. Availability concerns on top of being mediocre.
Tauros: 7/10. Actually good!
Ditto: 1/10. 1 point for breeding, which is 1 point higher than what it gets in Gen 1!
Snorlax: 5/10. Kanto only, so only so much credit.
Furret: 5/10. At first I was going to give him an awful score because Ratatta is so much better than Sentret, but then realized it evolves at level 15 which makes him nowhere near as pathetic, and he can HM Slave. STill worse than Raticate but at least not embarrassingly so like...
Noctowl: 3/10. This guy compared to Pidgeot and Fearow. It's damage is bad, getting low level Psychic moves is a laughable compensation, and Hypnosis does not make up for it's lack of everything else. Worst Early Game Bird ever, yet, still somehow better than...
Togetic: 1/10. THIS. Togepi joins you at level 1 and is completely worthless in battle. Ok, fine, I can live if it evolves into something cool, right? Right? Except not; it's like if Magikarp evolved into a Seaking instead of Gyarados.
Aipom: 3/10. I guess you can kind of get him early enough to do something? Yeah I got nothing, usable but not good.
Girafarig: 5/10. Actually not that bad; he's not great, but unique typing that he doesn't totally waste, and passable stats.
Dunsparce: 2/10. 1 point for being Jagen-like if you can nab him ASAP, but he's rare, and chances are you'd rather use that early game EXP for something you'll actually use.
Granbull: 4/10. High attack, but only so much to use it with.
Ursaring: 6/10. Ah, that's more like it!
Porygon2: 2/10. Just about every issue I can think of, he has, except that it's decent on paper, but that's not enough.
Stantler: 2/10. No.
Smeargle: 1/10. NO.
Miltank: 5/10. Actually not as bad as you'd think; tanky and fast.
Blissey: 2/10. Availability kills it.
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I don't remember GSC very well. (Do another game, Meeple!) I'm too lazy to do all the research myself on availability of pokemon, TMs, etc., etc., to do this justice, so I'll just c/p hinode whose ratings sound reasonable to me.
General thoughts: Normal types have really favorable STAB options in GSC; Headbutt in Ilex Forest (+ more buyable in Goldenrod), Strength in Olivine, and one Return a week; earlygame joiners can reliably max out their happiness in time for the E4. Meanwhile a lot of the good TMs in from gen 1 (Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Rock Slide, Body Slam) are gone, Blizzard/Thunder/Fire Blast are crazy expensive, and Earthquake is near the end of Victory Road. Pretty much every type besides Normal and Water is dependent on their natural moves and maybe element punch compatability to get any sort of decent STAB, and a lot of them lose this lottery. This makes Normal types with mediocre stats better than mediocre-statted Pokemon of other types.
Every gym leader in Kanto is trash in GSC except Blue and he isn't really great, so really Kanto-only mons are only relevant for facing Red.
"Relies on TMs" is not a problem if you have element punch access and decent special: those are cheap, infinitely buyable, and have acceptable power. With Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower not TMs at all in gen 2 those three + Surf are core in-game special TMs.
Pidgeot: 5/10. Early Sand Attack is its only real selling point compared to other birds, in a game where Mud Slap is the first gym TM. I guess Mud Slap doesn't work on fliers but how often is this going to matter before Lance (and 99% of people will either drop Pidgeot by then, or just OHKO his team with something like Alakazam or Suicune). Longterm its stats and movepool are clearly inferior to Fearow and Dodrio but still usable and early enough to except a maxed Return for lategame.
Raticate: 6.5/10. Normal is a really good offensive type for in-game with infinitely renewable Return TMs for lategame, while Hyper Fang is nuts when you first get it. Not much coverage though, especially with Dig nerfed.
Fearow: 6/10. Better stat build than Pidgeot, Drill Peck eventually is nice. Worse than Raticate since there's no Hyper Fang phase, though hitting weakness on some stuff is nice.
Clefable: 1.5/10. Only way to get one maingame is to soft reset for the Odd Egg... yeah no. A shame, it'd be really good otherwise.
Wigglytuff: 5/10. Element punches + Shadow Ball + Strength, that's pretty much the meaningful Johto TMs except Surf (and Earthquake for the last bit). Stats are horribly mediocre though.
Persian: 4/10. Route left of Ecruteak isn't so bad for availability, but with the Slash nerf there's not much going for it.
Farfetch'd: 3/10, I'm being nice to it for HM slaving.
Dodrio: 3/10. Nice stats, but only available at L30 right before Victory Road is not a winning formula.
Lickitung: 2/10. Strength + element punches is nice, but those stats are really not salvagable.
Kangaskhan: 1/10. Postgame only and underlevelled? Yeah right.
Tauros: 8/10. Reasonably early, great stats, can get Earthquake to demolish Normal resists lategame. Surf off 40 SpAtk is pretty garbage but can probably Ko a few underlevelled Gravellers since this is Johto.
Ditto: 0.5/10. I actually had to breed in Pokeniu to get a Sunflora with both Mega Drain and Razor Leaf for early/midgame. Realistically though, 99.99% of players are never going to breed in-game, and Ditto is worthless outside of breeding.
Furret: 6/10. Worse than Raticate but not by that much. Normally I'd mock Surf off 45 SpAtk, but with Johto's level curve you could probably 2HKO some underlevelled Gravellers.
Noctowl: 2.5/10. Guys, he has 50 base attack vs Pidgeot's 80. That's significantly worse, with only Hypnosis and special bulk to make up for this until Dream Eater at stupidly high levels. It has its uses when you are intentionally making a team of all garbage Pokemon *cough* so I can't score it too low, but it's still pretty bad.
EDIT: After checking some faqs, I just realized that Noctowl can learn Flash in gen 2 where it is 70 acc but not in gen 4 where it is 100 acc. GAAAAAAAAAMMEEEEEEFREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAK
Togeti: 1.5/10. I'll give it half a point for not being total bottom of the barrel in Pokeniu, and that's probably being generous.
Aipom: 2/10. As quite possibly the only person here to have ever used an Aipom in-game, I feel the need to comment here specifically. Aipom is surprisingly competent at sweeping randoms in this gen, both wild and trainer, because Normal is that good of an attack type for much of in-game. High speed and STAB strength right off the bat go farther than you might expect, unless you remember how sad the level curve is in GSC. Flipside, it's almost completely useless vs bosses and almost every other physical normal type outclasses it, usually by enormous margins, so the rating is still bad. I just can't quite bring myself to say 1/10 bad.
Girafarig: 6/10. Competent, but a bit too late for me to give it credit for full power Return.
Dunsparce: 3/10. Pretty average, except for that awful 1% encounter rate.
Granbull: 5.5/10. Apparantly its availability is actually decent in Crystal (30% rate on the route before Goldenrod in daytime). Speed kinda sucks, but otherwise respectable.
Ursaring: 7/10. Never actually used one before, but it's apparantly available really early in Crystal and its lategame performance is definately outstanding, with 130 attack, STAB Strength/Return, and enough special attack to make the element punches credible options. Speed is bad but 55 isn't completely unusable, at least.
More later, need to look up where some of this stuff is actually found in-game.
Porygon2: 1/10, yeah no to it.
Stantler: 6/10. Better stats than Furret but comes much later, not thinking too much on this.
Smeargle: 1/10. You can probably get Sleep Powder on it with fairly little effort, but that's about it.
Miltank: 7.5/10. Largely inferior stat spread to Tauros for in-game, but Milk Drink is nice.
Blissey: 1/10. Not only is it postgame only, not only is it really hard to catch, but it has NO OFFENSE WHATSOEVER before it evolves, thanks to 35 special attack and no Seismic Toss in GSC.
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So...question: Should I post a Standard Deviation of each typing, or wait til the very end to show a "Full Cast" Standard Deviation? Responses would be appreciated! I'll edit in if appropriate later.
Average STDEVA
Pidgeot 5.21 1.52
Raticate 6.07 0.67
Fearow 6.21 0.99
Clefable 2.29 0.91
Wigglytuff 4.36 1.11
Persian 2.93 0.93
Farfetch'd 2.71 0.49
Dodrio 3.43 1.51
Lickitung 1.64 0.94
Kangaskahn 2.00 1.15
Tauros 6.43 1.40
Ditto 2.43 3.15
Snorlax 5.60 0.89
Furret 5.21 0.99
Noctowl 3.71 1.95
Togetic 1.57 1.10
Aipom 1.86 0.90
Girfarig 5.57 0.53
Dunsparce 1.71 0.95
Granbull 3.57 1.48
Ursaring 6.50 0.50
Porygon2 1.43 0.53
Stantler 4.71 1.38
Smeargle 1.71 2.36
Miltank 6.50 1.00
Blissey 2.71 2.14
Best Rating and Worst Rating of this session can be seen via the Bolding and the Italics respectively. Please proceed to...uhh...something! And yes, if you can't tell, there was a tie.
Pokemon Generation 2 Fire, Electric and Dark types:
Charizard:
Ninetails:
Arcanine:
Rapidash:
Magmar:
Flareon:
Moltres:
Typhlosion:
Magcargo:
Houndoom:
Entei:
Ho-Oh:
Raichu:
Magneton:
Electrode:
Electabuzz:
Jolteon:
Zapdos:
Lanturn:
Ampharos:
Raikou:
Umbreon:
Murkrow:
Sneasel:
Tyranitar:
I am doing 3 typings now because Fire nor Electric have enough reps to really work on their own, and Dark is so small, and already partially covered due to Houndoom, figured I'd just toss them there. Also, Sneasel...because shut up.
The gaps here are based on typing, not generation introduction, because I don't feel like making so many <_<
EDIT: Raichu qualifies for Light Ball Pika as well. I forgot Light Ball was a thing here.
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Charizard: DNR, You can only get him from RBY
Ninetails: 3/10 - You get it early enough, and it learns Flamethrower at L31. That's a bit of a wait, but could be worse. Damage is lackluster compared to other Fire types, and its TM pool is not good. Meh.
Arcanine: 4/10 - Starts with Bite right before a Ghost gym, learns Flame Wheel and eventually Flamethrower (50). 50 is bad, but it learns some great TMs that work well with the high attack stat. I think it works better if you evolve early and don't wait for 50. It's not like Arcanine is a great Special attacker anyway. Stone evolution is a big minus if you can't find a stone.
Rapidash: 1/10 - Kanto scrub
Magmar: 8/10 -Get it early at Burned Tower, learns Fire Punch/Headbutt/Thunderpunch/whatevs, Flamethrower at 41, stats are competent enough and it doesn't need to evolve unless you hatched Magby for it. Surprisingly good!
Flareon: 2/10 - Is Flareon, takes too long to learn things, Game Freak hates him, etc.
Moltres: DNR, see Charizard
Typhlosion: 8/10 - An excellent starter thanks to the elemental punches and great Speed. Learns Flamethrower too late but solid regardless of that.
Magcargo: 1/10 - Don't do drugs, kids.
Houndoom: 3/10 - KANTO, but he's a pretty good attacker. One of the biggest missed opportunities in the game.
Entei: 1/10 GLHF catching this thing. Even if you do, there's no reason to use it over...
Ho-Oh: 9/10 - While Lugia is more durable, sometimes you'll take what you can get. Ho-Oh is a powerhouse, he hits certain things hard and can Recover when he's in trouble. Great TM selection too.
Raichu: 3/10 - Kanto, you know the drill. If you happen to get one off the Odd Egg, it's usable but unexciting. Thunderstone evolution is a minus.
Magneton: 2/10 - Typing is nice, but it learns crappy moves by leveling and isn't the kind of thing you want to blow TMs on.
Electrode: 2/10 - Even being traded can't save Voltorb.
Electabuzz: 7/10 - Generally, this thing is Kanto only, but should you get Elekid from the Odd Egg, it is going to tear things up and do it well. Elemental punches, Headbutt, you know the drill.
Jolteon: 3/10 - I am not fond of Jolteon in GSC. You have to trade him to RBY to get Thunderbolt (or breed I guess). If he learned better moves he'd be good as usual.
Zapdos: DNR
Lanturn: 7/10 Pretty easy to get, and has 2 good offensive types. Not a bad Surf user at all. Your best bet is probably a Rain Dance set for ingame (no Thunderbolt without breeding) which is pretty decent if you can spare a turn.
Ampharos: 5/10 Movepool is fine (though it learns surprisingly little by level) but its Speed can be a real problem. A common choice since Electric types are at a premium in this game, but I don't think it's really that good.
Raikou: 2/10 If you can find the thing it's pretty sweet, but a lot of Pokemon can just use ThunderPunch anyway, so it's more icing on the cake than a huge boon to your team.
Umbreon: 4/10 It's just not that good for in-game. STAB Bite is OK if you get Eevee to Level 30 before evolving, but that's so late. Sadly, Umbreon is your best Dark type for in-game purposes if you care.
Murkrow: 1/10 KANTO
Sneasel: 3/10 MT SILVER! And it's frail. Edit: Didn't realize you could get it early in Crystal. That sort of raises its usefulness.
Tyranitar: 1/10 MT SILVER! And it's underleveled. Screw you, GSC level curve.
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If someone knows a way to manipulate the phone for reliable elemental stones, I'll raise the grade of stone evolvers. Otherwise, well I've gone through all of Johto without getting a single one in Crystal before, and certainly never more than a single element stone (out of four) in a single run.
Charizard: DNR
Ninetails: 2/10. Nerfed SpAtk, limited movepool, stone evo.
Arcanine: 2.5/10. Some decent moves, but stone evo is so crippling.
Rapidash: 1/10. Comes right before Victory Road with zero half decent Fire moves.
Magmar: 7.5/10. ACTUAL AVAILABILITY (except in Crystal), huzzah. Thunderpunch and Confuse Ray mean it has real movepool options as well.
Flareon: 1.5/10. More stone evo problems.
Moltres: DNR
Typhlosion: 7.5/10. Movepool is fairly backloaded, but the stat distribution is optimal and Johto is fairly kind to Fire types. Being a starter helps it get rolling quickly.
Magcargo: 0.5/10. Kanto only and underlevelled lolno
Houndoom: 1.5/10. Man, it'd be so good if it weren't postgame. >_<
Entei: Need to think about roamers.
Ho-oh: 9/10. The typing isn't really optimal, but hax stats and Recover go a long ways.
Raichu: 1/10. Need to soft reset the Odd Egg AND somehow get a Thunderstone, eww. Light Ball requires trading a Pika in from Yellow, incidentally, I wouldn't consider it an in-game factor at all.
Magneton: 4.5/10. Steel typing is niiiiice, but its level-up list is awful and this is by far the worst gen for electric TM access. Might change my mind on this.
Electrode: 2/10. Does it get ANY electric move by level in gen 2... *checks* nope! Only good for suiciding, then.
Electabuzz: 3.5/10. Would be really good... except, you know, Odd Egg or Kanto only. FUN FACT: The Odd Egg has a 1/8 chance of spawning a shiny, and a 7/8 chance of spawning a non-Shiny with 0 in every IV/DV.
Jolteon: 2.5/10. Stone access problems, electric TM access problems.
Zapdos: DNR
Lanturn: 7/10. Great typing, Spark access is a lifesaver this generation. Mediocre stats hold it back, though.
Ampharos: 7.5/10. Thunderwave helps with the low speed. Largely terrible electric options this gen inflate its grade.
Raikou: See Entei.
Umbreon: 5/10. Not really well-suited for in-game, but I'm bumping its grade up for not requiring a stone evo at least. Could change my mind on this later.
Murkrow: 1/10. Gamefreak really had it in for Dark types in-game, didn't they.
Sneasel: 3.5/10. Saved by Crystal adding it to Icy Path. It needs the Shadow Ball TM to actually do its job of Psychic killing, but with the huge dearth of in-game Dark types and SB not all that desirable this gen, that's actually... not too ridiculous? Good offensive stats at least, frail with a lousy movepool though.
Larvitar: 1/10. You can actually buy one at Celadon Game Corner if you really wanted one before Mt. Silver for some reason. T-tar isn't even that monstrous yet, without Sandstream.
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Pokemon Generation 2 Fire, Electric and Dark types:
Charizard: DNR
Ninetails: Bleh, stone evo. 3/10
Arcanine: Again. 3/10
Rapidash: lol. 2/10
Magmar: This had availability? This had availability. Okay. 8/10
Flareon: It's Flareon. 2/10.
Moltres: DNR
Typhlosion: Best starter of the bunch as I recall. 8/10
Magcargo: aww yeah. 0.5/10
Houndoom: ;_;. 2/10
Entei: Eh, catching roamers, glhf with that shit. 2/10.
Ho-Oh: Yeah this bird's pretty good. 9/10.
Raichu: ah... ha... ha... no 1/10.
Magneton: Good god get a moveset. 3/10
Electrode: no electric moves by levelling? gtfo. 2/10
Electabuzz: KANTO. 3/10.
Jolteon: Well at least it's not Flareon. 3/10.
Zapdos: DNR
Lanturn: oh hey you're cool. 7/10
Ampharos: god are you the only electric type until lanturn really why. Oh well, still very useable in this context. 7/10
Raikou: Eh, catching roamers, glhf with that shit. 2/10.
Umbreon: Eh at least it's not a stone evo. 4/10
Murkrow: fuck. 1/10.
Sneasel: ugh, I guess you can get it early enough in Crystal but still what were they thinking with that SpA. 3/10
Tyranitar: why. 1/10.
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Hmm I remember having plenty of evolution stones in Crystal; IIRC people kept phoning me to hand them over. Weird luck?
Also this list is reminding me why I don't care for GSC.
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Fire's a scrubby type (the types it kills either barely exist, suck, or are grass which has many other weaknesses). Not sure why hinode thinks Johto changes this... the good Johto gym leaders are Whitney (neutral) and Clair (resists), and the two relatively competent E4 members are Karen (varies but Houndoom resists) and Lance (resists). The only gyms fire has an advantage against are the really scrubby ones (bug and ice, as well as Kanto grass)... I guess Jasmine as well but her Steelix has rock attacks and is weak to Surf (which you always have) anyway, so just hit her with that. Fire Punch helps... but then most fires apparently don't even get that! WTF?
Charizard: DNR
Ninetails: 5/10. Confuse Ray, then Flamethrower at 31 (along with the evolution of course). Decent at that point! Kinda bad before then though. If Flame Stones really are annoying to get, I may reconsider this.
Arcanine: 4/10. Not really seeing what he brings to the table. Non-STAB dark attacks? Best option is probably to evolve after Flame Wheel at 34, but that just looks trashy compared to other fire options who will have either Fire Punch + Thunderpunch or Flamethrower. Always worse than Ninetales, despite being better at almost every stat, I think this is a running joke on GameFreak's part.
Rapidash: 2/10. Hahaha no.
Magmar: 7.5/10. Hmm. Confuse Ray isn't really a thing in this game (Level 49 lol). However, he has full evo stats as soon as you get him, and Fire Punch (which he has immediately) far exceeds the Ember/Flame Wheel other fires are rocking. He's the most damaging fire type until Typhlosion evolves and even then only barely loses from then on (and takes the lead back again at 41 with Flamethrower!). Even gets Thunderpunch too, yeah. Clear best fire type in GSC.
Flareon: 1.5/10. lol doesn't even get a fire move better than Ember until the 50's, on top of usual Flareon problems.
Moltres: DNR
Typhlosion: 5/10. Really bad until Level 31 when it gets Flame Wheel, mediocre until 36 when it gets its evo and Fire/Thunderpunch, at which point it is a slightly better Magmar which is solid enough to get a respectable score, but certainly nothing high. Not seeing the hype here. If it is the best starter that's due to the scrubbiness of the competition, and I'm not convinced that's the case anyway.
Magcargo: 1/10. Crap.
Houndoom: 2/10. I... I... sigh.
Entei: Pass.
Ho-Oh: 8.5/10. Okay pretty sure he's pretty impressive, yeah. edit: but I think I'll reserve 9 for Lugia since 9.5 seems too high for a lategame pickup
Electric unlike fire is actually worthwhile since waters are a pain to hit weakness on and IIRC GSC is short on good grass attacking options due to Razor Leaf's nerf, although again electrics don't seem to want to learn Thunderpunch.
Raichu: 2/10. See Houndoom?
Magneton: 5/10. Thunderwave and steel typing are nice; I definitely found a niche for it as an annoyer. Damage blows, though. Probably best thought of as an Ampharos who is more durable (due to typing) but notably less damaging. They certainly don't deserve a huge gap, though.
Electrode: 3/10. Well it's fast and can screech/light screen/blow up.
Electabuzz: 3/10. Sure I'll give it a bonus point for Odd Egg shenanigans.
Jolteon: 3/10. You know GSC is screwed up when Jolteon sucks (despite not even being a Kanto pokemon!).
Zapdos: DNR
Lanturn: 7.5/10. Bleh stats, but nice skillset: Spark, Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Surf? I'm sold.
Ampharos: 6/10. Actually learns Thunderpunch! Doesn't have the variety of Lanturn (Confuse Ray or Surf) but does have higher SA,. Losing trade but not an awful one, for all that I think of this guy as a scrub on paper (dat speed). GSC!!!
Raikou: Pass.
Dark's typing... well, killing psychics is very useful as very little else even resists them (although I guess punching Kababra would work pretty well). Unfortunately they lack on offence and barely exist.
Umbreon: 6/10. Y'all saying Umbreon's build doesn't work in-game are weird. In-game doesn't call for tanks/walls at base but they work pretty well if they can somehow cripple the enemy, allowing another pokemon to finish the job or even set up with stat buffs (though I dunno how many good setup sets exist in GSC in-game offhand). Umbreon can take loads of punishment, nulls an otherwise extremely annoying enemy type (Sabrina and Ash's Espeon stand out as two of the trickier things I had to deal with in GSC, Umbreon would have killed them dead), and has Sand-Attack and Confuse Ray. It's not amazing but so much better than most of this list.
Murkrow: 1/10. Why you put this crap in Kanto, game.
Sneasel: 3.5/10. Sure, what hinode says sounds right.
Tyranitar: 1/10. -_-
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I think the phone calls for stones are just totally random. I just checked my old Crystal files, and across 3 different runs I have a grand total of 1x Leaf Stone and 1x Water Stone that (I think) came from phone calls, plus a set that definately came from Bill's Grandpa. Caveat that one of these files I stopped after beating the E4, but it's not getting a random stone in Kanto is really salvaging anyone's rating.
As for Fire types in Johto, that was a hasty comment based largely on the three types its weak to being locked to Kanto gyms while three of the types weak to it being in Johto, although in hindsight you're right on two of those being really scrubby gyms. I don't consider Steelix's non-STAB Rock Slide a serious problem though, that's not likely to OHKO unless you're seriously underlevelled in which case Sunny Day + healing items can cause Water types problems as well. I'm also used to Typhlosion with Fire Punch+Thunderpunch(+Earthquake sometimes) having good performances in the E4, but that's only partly due to the Fire type itself, thinking more closely on it.
Incidentally, I just skimmed the movepools for Grass types in GSC and... yikes. Nobody besides Meganium is getting better than a 4, and that depends on me giving Bellsprout lots of credit for earlygame.
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Regarding Steelix, I'd assume you are fighting Jasmine below Level 31, so all fires are going to be running Ember as their best move (except Magmar)... and Surf post-Sunny Day is still stronger than Ember, and only slightly weaker than Ember post-Sunny Day (I don't recall under what circumstances it will use Sunny Day to comment further here), and of course you get in that first hit at minimum against Steelix speed. Rock Throw's not that scary, no (although better than you'd think because Steelix's level is very high), but it will outdamage a resisted Iron Tail (100 effective power / 90 accuracy instead of 75/75 for Iron Tail), so waters get a definite durability advantage by comparison.
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I vaguely recall having Flame Wheel for Jasmine, although my memory of GSC is pretty bad at this point besides the Pokeniu run which I took notes on. My levels are typically higher than yours (fewer temps to siphon off exp, more Rare Candies from Buena) but I can't say exactly how much at this point.
I should note at this point that Typhlosion and Magmar are the only Fires I'd seriously consider using at that point, my half-assed ranking for the Growlithe line was assuming you grabbed it before Violet City and ditched it right after Morty, as probably the most efficient use of it w/o a Fire Stone. <_<
Edit: Dropped Vulpix/Growlithe scores some more, they're really terrible investments without dumb luck in getting a Fire Stone on time. Also dropped some other Fire types that are clearly even worse than those two even further.
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Pokemon Generation 2 Fire, Electric and Dark types:
Charizard: DNR. Yeah, trade only = might as well not exist.
Ninetails: 3.5/10 It has issues, but not unsalvage-ably useless I guess.
Arcanine: 3/10. Is Ninetails with a worse level up set which kind of matters a lot for them.
Rapidash: 2/10. Rapidash requires Gen 4 to actually get some argument of worth...maybe...
Magmar: 7/10. Good stats out of the gate relative to when you can get him, TM Punches insure he'll have solid offense the entire game, gets Confuse Ray. Take notes other fire types!
Flareon: 2/10. Flareon/10.
Moltres: DNR. See Charizard
Typhlosion: 6/10. Good stats and Flamewheel is a better move than most Fire types get, and he can use Thunder Punch TM as well for some coverage (which is also stronger than STAB Ember to boot.)
Magcargo: 1/10. THink if something wrong with a Pokemon that isn't a "joke" like Farfetch'd, chances are, it'll apply to Magcargo too.
Houndoom: 3/10. He's good on paper, but has this issue of "Kanto only" which docks him points.
Entei: 3/10. The raw stats are nice, the moveset not so much; he still has the issue of running Ember late game and what not. If he got Flame Wheel instead, this would probably boost him 2 points. To top it off? He's also a huge pain in the ass to get. EDIT: On Hindsight, that moveset combined with runner makes it hard to justify getting higher than this.
Ho-Oh: 9/10. On top of raw stats, Ho-Oh also adds in a very good skillset in the mix AND can even be used as a Fly slave (a move that actually doesn't suck in game.) In Games where he misses Sacred Fire, he'll still get Fire Blast, which is certainly good enough.
Raichu: 2/10. Raichu is good, make no mistake, but given the amount of effort required just to get one, which includes raising him from Pichu (who you may not even get due to randomness) and getting an elusive Thunderstone, I cannot realistically place him higher. Talk about being boned in everyway.
Magneton: 6/10. Offense + Typing combo is good.
Electrode: 4/10. He's fast, which is something...I guess.
Electabuzz: 4/10. Electric Magmar! ...who is Kanto only, this docks him a lot of points, sadly.
Jolteon: 3/10. With no Thunderbolt TM, Jolteon is running Thundershock for way longer than he should as his best damage. That's really hard to defend.
Zapdos: DNR. No different than Moltres.
Lanturn: 5/10. Can run STAB Surf for damage, and does get Spark for an intermediate electric type attack. The stats hold him back, sadly.
Ampharos: 6/10. Ok, that's more like it. Speed needs work, but it's got good SpA backing up STAB Thunder Punch AND it can use Fire Punch for type coverage as well (like...say...Grass types anyone?)
Raikou: 6/10. Ok, he gets Spark...at level 41. That sounds high...except he joins at Level 40, meaning he's likely overleveled when you first get him and only one level away from a half-decent Electric Attack. Unfortunately, he's also a pain to get; you can Master Ball him granted, but finding his first appearance is the hardest, so I can't honestly give him higher as the effort to find one offsets everything. EDIT: Docking him a point because that initial finding of him is just awful.
Umbreon: 6/10. Tanks can indeed go a long way, and Umbreon, unlike other Eeveelutions, isn't reliant on finding a random stone, which makes him actually easier to get than others.
Murkrow: 2/10. This is the kind of Pokemon that's a good Jagen, evidence by his effectiveness in games like Diamond. The problem? YOU GET HIM IN KANTO AND UNDERLEVELED. This makes him awful.
Sneasel: 3/10. Sneasel is great...in Gen 4 where he gained physical STABs and an evolution in Weavile. As he stands, he's a Pokemon whose stats don't mix with the typing, though at least he exists in Johto so that puts him ahead of Murkrow.
Tyranitar: 1/10. This guy is as badass as he appears, frankly. So what's the problem? You find him in the VERY LAST DUNGEON IN THE GAME...as an underleveled Larvitar. Sorry, but much as I love T-tar, he's the epitome of useless-in-game. It's basically GSC's equivalent of Nino, only way more extreme. Yes, a "more extreme Nino"; I'll let you stomach that.
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Average STDEVA
Charizard N/A N/A
Ninetails 3.30 1.10
Arcanine 3.30 0.67
Rapidash 1.60 0.55
Magmar 7.60 0.42
Flareon 1.80 0.27
Moltres N/A N/A
Typhlosion 6.90 1.34
Magcargo 0.80 0.27
Houndoom 2.30 0.67
Entei N/A (2.33) N/A (1.53)
Ho-Oh 8.90 0.22
Raichu 1.80 0.84
Magneton 4.10 1.60
Electrode 2.80 0.84
Electabuzz 4.10 1.67
Jolteon 2.90 0.22
Zapdos N/A N/A
Lanturn 6.70 0.97
Ampharos 6.30 0.97
Raikou N/A (3.67) N/A (2.89)
Umbreon 5.00 1
Murkrow 1.20 0.45
Sneasel 3.20 0.27
Tyranitar 1.00 0
Standard Deviation of full cast: 2.29
Best Rating of this session: Ho-Oh w/ 8.90
Worst Rating of this session: Magcargo w/ 0.80
Charizard, Moltres, and Zapdos all got DNR'd hence no rating. Raikou and Entei did not get sufficient enough votes to count, so they get similar treatment, however, for those curious, I did list the values based on those who did rate in parantheses; I feel this is a fair compromise.
I might add in Standard Deviation of each typing in this session at a later point, but just trying to get the basic post done now (this is a crazy week for me, and I don't want to say "sorry for another delay!" scenario).
This session, we do a bunch of more typings! Please note that we will likely take a break from Pokemon after this next session, because I get the feeling a burn out is happening; if you wish to continue and just to get them done ASAP, please speak up now.
Pokemon Generation 2 Water, Ice, and Dragon types:
Blastoise:
Golduck:
Poliwrath:
Tentacruel:
Slowbro:
Dewgong:
Cloyster:
Kingler:
Seaking:
Starmie:
Gyarados:
Lapras:
Vaporeon:
Omastar:
Kabutops:
Feraligatr:
Azumaril:
Politoed:
Quagsire:
Slowking:
Qwilfish:
Corsola:
Octillery:
Mantine:
Kingdra:
Suicune:
Jynx:
Articuno:
Dragonite:
Piloswine:
Delibird:
I toyed with the idea of removing some of the dual types (notably the Rock and Psychic ones) and placing them with their alternative typings...but realized I'd probably forget I didn't do them already, and that would eb bad, so screw it, LARGE SESSION IS GO!
-
Maybe run one non-Pokemon game alongside one batch of Pokemon for the next few ranking sessions? That would get get people who don't play Pokemon/don't feel like looking up GSC info back posting in this thread regularly, without totally halting the GSC ranking process.
I'll start with the stuff I've used before (plus DNRs), and then fill in the blanks later on after doing some research. After a while I'll probably just start half-assing them since there are so many Water types and not as many obvious scrubs as other typings due to easy Surf access.
Blastoise: DNR
Golduck:
Poliwrath:
Tentacruel:
Slowbro:
Dewgong:
Cloyster:
Kingler:
Seaking:
Starmie:
Gyarados:
Lapras:
Vaporeon:
Omastar: DNR
Kabutops: DNR
Feraligatr: 8/10. The high attack is kinda wasted, but 79/78 offensive stats are still decent and Surf+Ice Punch before gym 4 is outstanding.
Azumaril: 2.5/10. Same nice Surf+Ice Punch combo as Feraligatr, but off 50/50 offensive stats instead. It was actually one of my top performers in Pokeniu alongside Sneasel and Piloswine, but being strictly outclassed by so many other Water types mean it scores lower than Sneasel who at least fills a unique niche.
Politoed:
Quagsire: 6/10. Great defensive typing, and getting Earthquake at a reasonable level (35) is a huge deal in a game where the Earthquake TM is so heavily contested. Those stats could generously be termed mediocre, though.
Slowking:
Qwilfish:
Corsola: 2/10. Some cool moves by level-up (Recover when you catch it, Mirror Coat and Ancientpower before 45), but those stats are really hopeless.
Octillery:
Mantine:
Kingdra:
Suicune: 8/10. GSC is backloaded enough on difficulty (Clair, E4) that I'm willing to give Suicune, as well as Ho-oh and Lugia, lots of credit despite coming late. Modest offensive upgrade over Feraligatr (except Ice damage) and a large durability lead vs huge availability gap feels pretty close to a push for me, so I'll give them the same score.
Jynx:
Articuno: DNR
Dragonite:
Piloswine: 2.5/10. Needs the Earthquake TM to not totally suck, plus the Icy Wind TM to actually do something with its Ice type before level 56 besides die to Fire moves.
Delibird: 0.5/10, yeaaaah.
-
lazy, need to fill in blanks later
Pokemon Generation 2 Water, Ice, and Dragon types:
Blastoise: DNR
Golduck: HM slave, no water moves by level until Hydro Pump but hey Surf exists and you can get it around Goldenrod and it has good enough SpA so I'll be nice. 7/10.
Poliwrath: Meh stone evo. 3/10
Tentacruel: Quite useable. 6/10
Slowbro: I guess you could but there are faster things you could use to fit the bill. Oh well, at least it can HM slave. 5/10.
Dewgong: Availability could be worse, stats could be better. edit: or i could have forgotten something about it's availability, go me 3/10
Cloyster: Meh stone evo. 3/10
Kingler: Dat SpA. 3/10.
Seaking: FUCK YEAH SEAKING. 2/10
Starmie: Meh stone evo but hey Starmie is kind of cool at least. 4/10
Gyarados: Um. 3/10
Lapras: Yeah Lapras is fine. 6/10
Vaporeon: Meh stone evo. 3/10
Omastar: DNR
Kabutops: DNR
Feraligatr: It does get that third form at Lv30 and the SpA and Spd are workable. Atk is a bit wasted and it doesn't really have the HOLY CRAP THERE ARE NO GOOD X TYPES thing to warrant score inflation but it's fine. 7/10
Azumaril: What are those stats, ew. 2/10
Politoed: Requires trading, no. 2/10
Quagsire: The typing is good and it gets STAB EQ. The stats are... well. A thing. 6/10.
Slowking: Requires trading, no. 2/10
Qwilfish: Pretty awful. 1.5/10
Corsola: Those stats. 2/10
Octillery: 105 SpA is nice, but outside Ice Cave and could stand to be faster. 3/10.
Mantine: Doesn't seem too bad. 6/10.
Kingdra: Requires trading, no. 2/10
Suicune: Assuming Crystal, where it doesn't have the fact that it's a roamer dragging it down, yeah it's pretty good. 8/10.
Jynx: Rare and Ice Path, but STAB Ice Punch is something. 6/10.
Articuno: DNR
Dragonite: Uh. Well at least you can fish up a Dratini before Mt. Silver, that's something right. 2/10
Piloswine: Uh huh. 2/10
Delibird: lol. 0.5/10
-
Blastoise: DNR.
Golduck: Golduck is pretty much the bog standard of available water pokemon in this game: available fully evolved as soon as you can Surf, 95/85 offence, average defence, Surf/Ice Punch immediately. Compared to Magmar, he comes out ahead a bit... Surf is stronger than Fire Punch, which offsets the slightly lost offence in exchange for better defence. Also better elements. 8/10. Doesn't get higher because the stats are ultimately unexceptional. Screech can provide some okay utility.
Poliwrath: 5/10. Much worse stat build than the above, but can play the same game. Has a few more physical options, but who cares.
Tentacruel: 7/10. Solid. No Ice Punch, but gets STAB Sludge Bomb instead around gym 7 (pretty low demand TM I think?), and 100 speed is great. EDIT: Barrier at L38 is also a really nice push, especially with his speed/SDef already being great.
Slowbro: 5/10. Saved by being catchable as Slowbro, since otherwise Level 37 evo in this game would be brutal. Anyway it's reasonably bulky and does the Surf/Ice Punch thing, but that speed sinks it.
Dewgong: 3/10. Late and underlevelled, unimpressive stats which are awful until L34 evo. Too bad because actually having STAB on Aurora Beam would be nice, otherwise.
Cloyster: 5/10. Outright crap until the Water Stone, at which point it becomes... reasonably durable and actually gets STAB on its Aurora Beam.
Kingler: 2/10. Oh dear. Bad stats, no Ice Punch, bad skillset. The worst possible choice for a water? Poor Krabby in the days between losing Crabhammer and the phyisical/special split was a sorry sight to behold.
Seaking: 2/10. Blah stats, no Ice Punch, bad skillset. At least it's fully evolved immediately so it's better than Kingler. EDIT: But it has less Atk and no Strength. So maybe not!
Starmie: 7/10. Kind of a weird showing for Starmie. Unlike most games it's almost mono water for attacks (until Psychic in Kanto). It can still do Recover + Harden or Flash, though, and Confuse Ray is a great pickup at Level 37. A bit projecty due to that and needing a Water Stone, but once it gets rolling it pretty much trades ice for that and of course the best stats of the bunch, 100/115 offence hell yes.
Gyarados: 3/10. Um um it has non-STAB Bite and Twister! Yeah, otherwise, it's pretty much Seaking with more bulk but available later.
Lapras: 6.5/10. Well... I'm not sure how much to hold "Friday only" against it. Depending on when you are playing the game and how fast that could leave it a bit underlevelled/late. That said it is very solid past that. Slow but tanky, gets STAB Ice Beam (yes, Ice, not Aurora, this probably wrecks Lance), gets Confuse Ray.
Vaporeon: 6/10. Needs a Water Stone. After that it's Lapras with later/weaker ice damage but more water damage, and no Confuse Ray. Still seems like a decent choice. It can run Shadow Ball if you're desperate. Eevee phase... well, it can STAB Headbutt at least.
Omastar: DNR
Kabutops: DNR
Feraligatr: 6/10. I don't see any compelling reason not to dump him for something better as soon as you get Surf (in particular: Golduck completely outclasses him), but at least he gets Surf/Ice Punch and has no overtly bad stats. Good enough for an above average score.
Azumaril: 2.5/10. Those offensive stats are gross. It can Surf/Ice Punch, so it's not Kingler bad.
Politoed: DNR
Quagsire: 4/10. Surf/Ice Punch/Earthquake sure is a skillset in GSC. Unfortunately, 35 speed and no other especially good stats really hold it back. Why not just run a Graveller and another water who is actually good at the water side of things?
Slowking: DNR
Qwilfish: 1.5/10. Kanto scrub. (Apparently you can get it earlier via a swarm or something but I remember those being annoyingly random.)
Corsola: 3/10. Quagsire trading STAB Earthquake and Ice Punch for Harden/Recover. That neat typing means you can do much worse, but it's not very good anyway. Being slow makes that healing game much worse unless you can switch it in on something asleep or something.
Octillery: 2/10. Kanto/swarm scrub with slightly less awful stats. A shame because it actually has good special coverage off good SA.
Mantine: 5/10. Wishes it got more of that solid skillset earlier. Anyway it's a decent special tank and has an okay STAB Surf, but as far as tanky waters go you can do better.
Kingdra: 2/10. Like Seel this is late/underlevelled, and it doesn't even get STAB Ice. If you're actually willing to consider Kingdra, unlike me, it gets notably better, but still, why bother.
Suicune: 8/10. Yep, this one's good.
Jynx: 6.5/10. A bit rare/underlevelled... but STAB Ice Punch and 75% sleep off 115/95 offence is great. Durability is atrocious, however, and it doesn't have an second-type special until Kanto.
Articuno: DNR
Dragonite: 2/10. Late and underlevelled, no real point. It can Thunderwave at least, and you might as well give it the Dragonbreath TM if you're going to use it, but you're not going to catch it up into anything worthwhile.
Piloswine: 2/10. So, when I played Crystal, I missed Jynx and Lapras, so I tried to use this as my ice type. I can assure you: it is horrible.
Delibird: 0.5/10. A present for youuuu~
-
Never realized there were so many freakin water types in this gen. I know there's a lot in general, but it feels really skewed here.
Pokemon Generation 2 Water, Ice, and Dragon types:
Blastoise: DNR
Golduck: 6 - I like Psyduck, but I never used him, like many water types, because I just picked one that didn't look terrible and never bothered with any others til Suicune.
Poliwrath: 6 - Looks fine.
Tentacruel: 7 - This is the one I snagged.
Slowbro: 6 - It's fine.
Dewgong: 4 - I like the dual ice-types for general coverage.
Cloyster: 4
Kingler: 2 - Wow, the suck.
Seaking: 2 - The suck.
Starmie: 7 - the one I -should- have used. I had a Water Stone lying around that I never used.
Gyarados: 7 - I always liked the Gyarados payoff of grinding a Magikarp. But Gen 2 also guarantees you one out of the box, so it's better than usual here.
Lapras: 6 - The best of the dual Ice-types.
Vaporeon: 6 - Usable Eeveelution/10!
Omastar: DNR
Kabutops: DNR
Feraligatr: 6 - There are better water options, which is kinda sad for a starter in this Gen.
Azumaril: 2 - Hey, the suck!
Politoed: 3 - What a terrible evo option, and it requires trading? Why?
Quagsire: 6 - Overall usable
Slowking: 4 - I think it's better than Slowbro in theory but requires trade and a hold item. Lame.
Qwilfish: no comment
Corsola: no comment
Octillery: no comment
Mantine: 5 - Hey, you're pretty good and available!
Kingdra: 5.5 - Requires Trade, but snags you both a good water and one of your few Dragon options.
Suicune: 8 - The Water-type we deserved.
Jynx: 5 - Ugh, I am reluctant to admit it is kinda useful in this Gen. That makes me sad.
Articuno: DNR (this also makes me sad)
Dragonite: 2 - Lategame beasts don't get to catch up, unfortunately.
Piloswine: 3 - Really needs that Gen4 evo. Swinub is so cute though, I used it anyway (fondness for Ice-types)
Delibird: 1 - Gimmick/10
-
Gyarados may not require raising in GSC, but unfortunately they made it suck to compensate for this. Bad Special Atk (unlike RBY), and almost nothing which runs off its physical attack (unlike RSE onwards; heck, it has less than in RBY due to Bite going special). Its offence is either non-STAB Strength, or a Surf which does less damage than Seaking's.
EDIT: On that note Seaking's stats are somehow even worse than I thought + apparently it doesn't even get Strength, okay, lowering it some.
-
Pokemon Generation 2 Water, Ice, and Dragon types:
Blastoise: DNR.
Golduck: 7/10. Adequate and gotten early enough to be worth something; he'd be worse if you couldn't catch one in the Wild under the normal levels because Psyduck sucks.
Poliwrath: 4/10. Unimpressive, but not awful. Stone Evo holds it back.
Tentacruel: 6/10. Fast with passable SpA, it'll do.
Slowbro: 5/10. Tanky, but probably not overall worth it; second typing doesn't hurt though.
Dewgong: 2/10. No.
Cloyster: 2/10. Requires a stone Evo to be usable, and isn't even that good once evolved.
Kingler: 1/10. Sorry Kingler, but before Gen 4, you just plain suck.
Seaking: 1/10. Sorry Seaking, but you're just plain bad, period.
Starmie: 6/10. Starmie is great, but the stone evo is a legitimate hold back; yeah, this rating works.
Gyarados: 2/10. He's not unusably bad, but yeah, Gen 2 Gyarados was really bad.
Lapras: 7/10. I don't think I hold the "Friday Only" thing too badly, so what we have is a Water/Ice type with good stats and a moveset to back it up.
Vaporeon: 5/10. Similar to Starmie, but not as good; the stone issues hold it back.
Omastar: DNR
Kabutops: DNR
Feraligatr: 5/10. It's usable but worse than Golduck in the notable ways, on top of picking Feraligatr prevents you from getting like the only decent Grass or Fire type in the game, where as filling that Water slot is much easier.
Azumaril: 1/10. Slow, damageless, and no redeeming qualities other than ABOVE AVERAGE HP!!!
Politoed: 2/10. It's like Poliwrath with an even MORE restrictive evolution...so eewww to that.
Quagsire: 5/10. Passable Water type that is available early.
Slowking: 1/10. Slowbro with a god awful Evolution mechanic, so no.
Qwilfish: 2/10. Thinks it is Tentacruel, it is not Tentacruel.
Corsola: 3/10. It's Quagsire with worse typing, and not sure how much I respect Harden + Recover on a typing that can be exploited.
Octillery: 2/10. Unimpressive.
Mantine: 4/10. It's got special bulk! And ok stats! I guess this works.
Kingdra: 3/10. Good if you can get one! Pity you won't, so this is basically what a Seadra gets.
Suicune: 8/10. In Crystal, he is completely bad ass.
Jynx: 6/10. Effective for what it is.
Articuno: DNR.
Dragonite: 2/10. I think you get a Dratini for free after Claire, but it's probably not sufficiently leveled at all, so uh, yeah. It does have all of Kanto to gain levels and do stuff, so
Piloswine: 2/10. Umm...what good thing can I say about it? COOL TYPING (no pun intended) does not offset his other failings. There's a reason he got a Gen 4 Evolution.
Delibird: 1/10. He's like Articuno except with horrible moves and bad stats...so nothing like ARticuno outside of the typing!
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Pokemon Generation 2 Water, Ice, and Dragon types:
Blastoise: DNR
Golduck: 4/10 So the thing about waters is that they all get STAB Surf, so there's a floor on how bad they can be. That said a lot of them are unexciting and there's no real reason to use them over something else better, so you'll see a lot of this 4/10 business.
Poliwrath: 5/10 good but stone
Tentacruel: 8/10 Nobody *wants* to use one because they're so common but actually Tenta's stats kind of rule. It's like Bizzaro Water Kadabra.
Slowbro: 4/10
Dewgong: 5/10 +1 for STAB ice
Cloyster: 5/10 ditto
Kingler: 5/10
Seaking: 4/10
Starmie: 6/10 like tenta but stone evo
Gyarados: 8/10 gets handed to you and can be leaned upon, terrible IVs aside it's nice to actually have Dragon Rage and physicals
Lapras: 9/10 this is the water type you should actually use to kill things with, it is strong and has good moves and is guaranteed access.
Vaporeon: 2/10 I know I said there was a floor on STAB surf, but if you get Vaporeon with the intent of using it, you are dumb and also wasted your Eevee.
Omastar: DNR
Kabutops: DNR
Feraligatr: 7/10, it's a starter with STAB surf but it also means you picked the worst starter.
Azumaril: 4/10 wasn't there another l?
Politoed: DNR I refuse to believe anyone legitimately obtained this pokemon for normal ingame use worth ranking.
Quagsire: 7/10 If you're too lazy for Lapras this is the water you should get.
Slowking: DNR see Politoed
Qwilfish: 4/10
Corsola: 4/10
Octillery: 4/10
Mantine: 3/10 -1 for opening yourself up to electric W4 for no reason and not being Gyarados
Kingdra: 6/10 I almost want to DNR this but its plot power means people actually get it. That said it takes a LOT of work and the end result isn't actually as impressive as Claire's.
Suicune: 9/10 In Crystal this carries your entire game with ease.
Jynx: 8/10 actually super badass, Smoochum is the best random egg baby.
Articuno: DNR
Dragonite: 6/10 it won't actually BE Dragonite most of the game, but why are people docking ranks for that, Dragonair is fine and one is handed to you. If you choose to use it it's quite good.
Piloswine: 5/10 it actually does have good coverage for ingame and reasonable stats. Putting your Icy Wind and EQ on this might not feel optimal but you could do a lot worse.
Delibird: 2/10 I used this. It really does suck. However it does have STAB Ice so it isn't 1 or 0/10 suck.
-
Ok, before I post ratings, I have a simple question:
Anyone opposed to, at some point in the not too distant future (which is about as vague a statement as I can make!) about re-ranking previously ranked games? This is more gauging interest and they would only happen alongside something else added on.
Average STDEVA
Blastoise N/A N/A
Golduck 6.40 1.52
Poliwrath 4.60 1.14
Tentacruel 6.80 0.84
Slowbro 5.00 0.71
Dewgong 3.40 1.14
Cloyster 3.80 1.3
Kingler 2.60 1.52
Seaking 2.20 1.10
Starmie 6.00 1.22
Gyarados 4.60 2.70
Lapras 6.90 1.24
Vaporeon 4.40 1.82
Omastar N/A N/A
Kabutops N/A N/A
Feraligatr 6.50 1.05
Azumaril 2.33 0.98
Politoed N/A (2.33) N/A (1.34)
Quagsire 5.67 1.03
Slowking N/A (2.33) N/A (1.67)
Qwilfish 2.25 1.19
Corsola 2.80 0.84
Octillery 3.25 1.5
Mantine 4.60 1.14
Kingdra 3.70 1.92
Suicune 8.17 0.41
Jynx 6.30 1.10
Articuno N/A N/A
Dragonite 2.80 1.79
Piloswine 2.75 1.17
Delibird 0.92 0.58
Standard Deviation of session: 1.90
As before, highlighting and itallics indicate the best and worst users of this session respectively. Easier than typing it out again!
This session, I am putting on a non-Pokemon game alongside more Pokeymanz because someone suggested it. I will decide what I do based on what happens here...and yes, feedback one way or another is appreciated provided it doesn't involve orbital death lasers.
Digital Devil Saga:
Serph:
Heat:
Argilla:
Gale:
Cielo:
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Venusaur:
Vileplume:
Parasect:
Victreebel:
Exeggutor:
Tangela:
Meganium:
Bellossom:
Jumpluff:
Sunflora:
Celebi:
Butterfree:
Beedrill:
Venomoth:
Pinsir:
Ledian:
Ariados:
Yanma:
Forretress:
Scizor:
Shuckle:
Heracross:
Arbok:
Nidoqueen:
Nidoking:
Muk:
Gengar:
Weezing:
Crobat:
Misdreavus:
RANDOM FACT: I was going to only do Bug, Grass and Poison, but then realized that we're doing half of the Ghost types this session anyawy, hence why I tossed Ghost with this set. No, this is completely meaningless, I just decided to mention this.
-
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Venusaur: DNR
Vileplume: 2/10 it's not called Oddish Tower.
Parasect: 2/10 scrub.
Victreebel: 6/10 it is called Sprout Tower. more importantly though, this line is your best non-starter bet vs waters for quite a while, Growth/SlpPowdr/VWhip does work.
Exeggutor: 3/10 project mon with too small of a payoff.
Tangela: 2/10 scrub.
Meganium: 7/10 The best starter. Absurdly early Razor Leaf in a game lacking other ways to hit waters, plus innate Synthesis and Body Slam.
Bellossom: 1/10 @_@ why
Jumpluff: 2/10 Annoyers are cool but not really good ingame.
Sunflora: 0/10 @_@ wynaut
Celebi: DNR but 3/10 if you get it or hack it in, just for the record. For being a super hyped time traveler mon it is surprisingly quite bad at fighting.
Butterfree: 4/10 shamefully better sleeper than most of the grassers!
Beedrill: 2/10 scrub.
Venomoth: 1/10 super scrub.
Pinsir: 3/10 if you actually get it and Fury Cutter it it's ok I guess.
Ledian: 1/10 no
Ariados: 1/10 no
Yanma: 1/10 no
Forretress: 1/10 yes it's annoying when Koga breaks it out and you don't know what type it is. in your hands, not so good.
Scizor: DNR Scizor, 5/10 Scyther.
Shuckle: 4/10 OK NOW HEAR ME OUT HERE: one is handed to you, it's an ideal Rock Smash whore, and it has STAB on both Rollout and Fury Cutter which do allow it to do actual damage while not being bothered by enemies doing anything. Given the incompetence of gen 2, I think this is a legit better niche than most scrubs.
Heracross: 3/10 ingame, basically is Pinsir. By the time you get Megahorn, it doesn't matter anymore. Can't even safely sweep what's her name, Karen?
Arbok: 2/10 scrub.
Nidoqueen: 4/10 Good TM compat but that's about it.
Nidoking: 4/10 not significantly different from queen.
Muk: 2/10 scrub.
Gengar: 8/10 the game encourages you to use Haunter and break it. immune to tons of junk, fast sleeper with high spA and good special TM compat and a strong STAB physical. there's little reason not to have one on your team.
Weezing: 2/10 scrub.
Crobat: 6/10 nobody wants to use a Zubat, but if you do, the payoff is pretty good.
Misdreavus: ...... DNR, no, this just doesn't feasibly exist and do anything. I would guess the number of people who hacked in Celebi vastly outnumber the people who caught Missy and legitimately used it on Red.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: Customizable stats make this a hard one. I suppose between that and having a full run of the Karma Grid, Serph gets a solid 7/10. He's good, but DDS gameplay focuses a lot on synergy.
Heat: Physical tank/bruiser. The only one if you choose not to make Serph go that way. Full run of the grid not unlike Serph and Argilla, and leaving once (thus meaning a free node complete) adds some pluses, but physicals are generally on the low end when you're not fighting optional bosses--at which point powercharge Execute comes into play. 5/10
Argilla: Argilla comes off as a generalist mage of sorts. Healing and Earth options to start, and full run of the grid. She's held back for the first dungeon by refusing to gain any AP, but she leaves twice. Two free node completions count for a lot. Not a big fan of her stats, though. 5/10
Gale: I always saw Gale as the more dedicated offensive mage of the set. His stats don't hurt there from what I remember, and he starts with both Zan and Mudo series spells, in case you didn't unlock the latter at that point. For some reason he was the only one who got the Megido series on my playthroughs. 5.5/10
Cielo: ...Yeah, Cielo's easily cast-worst in DDS1. He starts with a more healer/support setup which isn't too bad, but his stats are generally not that good, and Weak:Ailments is probably the worst thing that can happen to a guy in a series where a ton of enemies...use...ailment-type attacks. He's not cripplingly bad when enemies don't have this, at least, so there's that. 3/10
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Gen 2 is probably the nadir for Grass's utility vs Water in-game; regular trainers with Water types are notoriously underlevelled in Johto to the point where I have no difficulty sweeping them with an Aipom's STAB Strength, while the list of bosses with Water types pretty much boils down to Chuck's Poliwrath, Will's Slowbro, and Misty who like almost every other Kanto leader is underlevelled by the time you reach her. Wild Pokemon are even lower levelled then their trainer counterparts, but that's probably a good point for Grass types anyhow since they are mostly Tentacools. On the upside, killing Rock types is still pretty valuable, especially earlygame where your Water options are limited unless you pick Totodile.
(Oh, there's also a couple of bosses witih Gyarados, but those are both Grass-neutral and fairly scrubby in gen 2 anyhow)
Also the only Grass TMs are Solarbeam (available right before Victory Road!) and Giga Drain (in Kanto!) so if your natural movepool sucks you are S.O.L this generation. This is applicible for, oh, every single Grass type besides Chikorita!
Venusaur: DNR.
Vileplume: 2/10. Stuck with Absorb as its only Grass move until L44 Gloom ahahahaha no. Can't even dock it for the stone evo since you'll probably be in Kanto by then anyways. Non-Grass offensive movepool is pretty dire as well, it's stuck with Cut as its best Normal move for most of the game.
Parasect: 2/10. Slow, kinda fragile, bad at both Grass damage and Bug damage. Spores comes surprisingly early but it has pretty much nothing else going for it.
Victreebel: 4/10. By far the best Rock slayer if you pick Cynaquil or just bench your starter for whatever reason. Sleep Powder comes early enough to help you catch a Water type to replace it, unless you're willing to rely on Vine Whip for damage all the way up to L42 Weepingbell.
Exeggutor: 3/10. It gets some decent moves (Leech Seed, Reflect, Confusion, Stun Spore) but the stats really suck without a Leaf Stone it can't reliably get, and it learns no Grass moves whatsoever by level.
Tangela: 2.5/10. Comes late (shortly before gym 8) with mediocre stats and nothing as valuable as Jynx's STAB Ice Punch. Better Grass moves than Oddish while retaining Sleep Powder though, my kneejerk is that it's a hair better. Willing to take arguments, though! <_<
Meganium: 6.5/10. The only even halfway acceptable option for Grass offense in this game, which inflates its performance well beyond raw stats/movepool to me. I'm not fond of its lack of status options, or its mediocre long-term damage, or its lousy gym/E4 matchups, but a monopoly on a (modestly) relevant attack type is still significant, and screens let it help out even in gyms with unfavorable matchups. Earlygame performance is great for the 50-60% of things that don't resist Grass, too.
Bellossom: 1.5/10. On the upside, Sun Stones can be procured reliably, unlike Leaf Stones. On the downside, it loses STAB on Acid and Sludge Bomb. The more I think about it, the more I think this is a losing trade, you're probably stuck waiting for Petal Dance as a Gloom anyhow.
Jumpluff: 3.5/10. Sleep Powder+Leech Seed is pretty fun, but a lot less effective than just smashing the scrubby opposition with a few rare exceptions like Clair, and Jumpluff's offenses are bad enough to actually hinder it from getting exp efficiently. Grinding it up early is pretty awful as well, especially the Splash-only phase. Really fun the one time I used it, but I can't really call it an efficient use of exp.
Sunflora: 2/10. Fun fact: Sunflora actually learns Razor Leaf by level! This would make it borderline competent at Grass offense... except that you have to evolve it at L10 or earlier, and wild Sunkern only come at L11-14. >_< I did mention I actually had to breed at one point in Pokeniu, right?
Celebi: DNR
Bug types are almost uniformly bad, so I'll half-ass them now instead of forgetting them later like I did with all those Water types.
Butterfree: 3/10. Butterfree's worst generation, with Psychic and Giga Drain TMs locked in Kanto and no Compound Eyes yet.
Beedrill: 2.5/10. Twineedle+Sludge Bomb means its damage is actually half decent, but it's still stuck with Beedrill stats.
Venomoth: 2.5/10. Movepool looks too backloaded to be good this gen, can't be bothered to check its availablility for more precise stats. Better lategame than Butterfree but worse overall sounds about right.
Pinsir: 2/10. Does it actually get any decent non-Normal moves? *checks* Nope.
Ledian: 0.5/10. I actually rejected this from Pokeniu for being too sucky.
Ariados: 1/10. Which says a lot, when the likes of Ariados made the cut.
Yanma: 1/10. Might be overrating this. Don't really want to think about it.
Forretress: 2/10. Self-Destruct+lots of revives might be funny. Not even remotely cost effective, but better than freaking Yanma.
Scyther/Scizor: 3/10. Wing Attack off Scyther stats is actually pretty decent, but kinda late and not exactly quality endgame material. Scizor requires either hunting wild Magnemites for a Metal Coat or postgame which does not really merit a comment in a game where the postgame is so dull, unlike HGSS. I guess you might SD+Quick Attack vs Red's team somewhere, but eh.
Schukle: 1.5/10. It does have more potential than the total scrubs, but eh.
Heracross: 2.5/10. It's basically a Normal type minus the STAB until Megahorn at L54, which is something of a sick joke.
Poison types are better than Bug types thanks to Sludge Bomb TM (which is also why I rated Beedrill over Pinsir) and largely better stats. Unfortunately that means I can't half-ass them quite as easily. Saving them for later, if I can be bothered. Except Haunter/Gengar, I have an opinion on them.
Haunter: 4/10. Early availability is actually a mixed blessing, since it can't touch Normal types for a long time and has pretty awful offenses in general. Things don't really get all that much better without a trade evo, as Haunter's only special moves pre-Kanto are Dream Eater and a really expensive Thunder TM (5500 coins!); either way, you need to deal with lots of misses. Probably needs Shadow Ball for STAB, despite running off a mere 50 attack.
Gengar: 7.5/10. Gengar on the other hand can grab three element punchs upon evolving and be awesome. The earlygame is still kinda rough which keeps its score down, but at least the payoff is real. By far the biggest beneficiary of a trade evo in GSC.
Misdreavus: 2/10. I actually used one to Perish Trap Red's Snorlax, just for giggles. This is worth almost nothing but it's better than trash like Kangaskhan and Chansey, so I need to give it a better score than them.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8.5/10. There's a limit to how good PCs like Serph can be, since everyone in DDS has the same skillset. That said Serph is at that limit. His stats are by definition the best possible; you decide what those are.
Heat: 3/10. Fighters in DDS1 were pretty bad.
Argilla: 7/10. Argilla has the most magic, which is the best stat: it means the best magic damage (i.e. best damage), best MP, AND the best magic defence. Her durability could be a touch better but because Magic affects MDef (as mentioned) it's not too bad.
Gale: 5.5/10. Gale's okay. Third in magic (= third best PC because :dds:), okay durability, doesn't have a crippling weakness.
Cielo: 3/10. Has a crippling weakness, and the stats aren't great anyway.
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
I'm generally willing to assume the Sludge Bomb TM can go to a STAB poison user; it's not a highly-coveted TM for coverage. This helps a few people on this list, though does mean that using, say, a grass/poison and Tentacruel at the same time is less desirable.
Venusaur: DNR
Vileplume: 2.5/10. Sleep Powder is a great skill and singlehandedly saves a lot of pokemon here. Past that, Vileplume has bad speed and crap damage outside Sludge Bomb, so is a very inferior choice of sleeper.
Parasect: 2/10. Spore is more accurate than Sleep Powder, but it's later (Level 28) and Parasect is even slower. Bah.
Victreebel: 6/10. Growth/Vine Whip is a far more capable earlygame offence than what Vileplume offers, and the speed is better too. So's the attack stat when you give it Sludge Bomb. It adds up a lot.
Exeggutor: 4/10. It has an okay Confusion as its damage (beats Vileplume). Reflect is nice, Leech Seed is nice. Hypnosis instead of Sleep Powder (until high levels) isn't nice, nor is the speed.
Tangela: 2.5/10. See Vileplume, remix the stats a bit, take away Sludge Bomb.
Meganium: 6.5/10. Grass is a good attacking element. Why am I bringing this up now? Because NOBODY ELSE GETS IT. Meganium, however, has a Level 8 ~65 effective power grass STAB, so that's pretty cool for a long time, even if eventually outclassed by the likes of Surf. Reflect + Synthesis gets it past some tough fights, too. It doesn't have much status, though, so it's not a straight improvement over other grass options. Still... sure, best starter.
Bellossom: 2/10. See Vileplume, minus Sludge Bomb STAB. Okay.
Jumpluff: 7/10. Great speed! Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, healing = kill even most bosses provided they aren't packing ice. The damage makes it annoying to level though. I found it pretty awesome in FRLG and it's not that different in GSC on paper.
Sunflora: 2/10. It can actually launch grass attacks... but that speed... and that Sunkern stage. No.
Celebi: DNR
Butterfree: 4/10. 70 speed Sleep Powder and not much else. But hey, that's enough.
Beedrill: 1/10. Oh god. This was mediocre enough in RBY, but delaying Twineedles until Level 20? Really?
Venomoth: 1.5/10. Kinda like Butterfree... except joins underlevelled and Sleep Powder's at Level 42. Ugh.
Pinsir: 4/10. I have no idea how practical the bug catching contest is, but... eh, it's Gyarados available earlier (which matters), non-STAB Headbutt/Strength/Return and not much else (late Submission instead of shitty Surf). Just use a damn Normal if that's what you want.
Ledian: 3/10. It... has dual screens, and Boltbeam Punch, off okay speed and crappy stats otherwise. This isn't actually... that terrible. But certainly isn't good.
Ariados: 1/10. Slow, bad durability, crappy skillset.
Yanma: 1/10. 1% encounter? Fuck that. It's bad anyway! Non-STAB Headbutt off crappy stats outside decent speed.
Forretress: 1.5/10. Uh, trash stats until Level 31, and even then it's not good for much besides non-STAB Strength and blowing up.
Scizor: DNR, 4/10 Scyther yeah. Good stats, trash skillset, trash typing. Someone else who runs non-STAB Strength/Return oh boy.
Shuckle: 2/10. I guess... Rollout lets it almost kind of do something.
Heracross: 4/10. More non-STAB normal moves off good stats awww yeah why is this not actually an awful option. Also I really doubt it can sweep Karen given that her best if a Houndoom and it still likely won't have Megahorn by then anyway...
Arbok: 2/10. So there were a few pokemon I randomly fanned over due to design/anime appearance rather than in-game. Some of those (Starmie) turned out amazing, most of the rest (Persian, Dodrio) at least turned out competent. Arbok, though? No, Arbok is pretty bad, especially after RBY. STAB Sludge Bomb helps it, and the stats aren't total garbage, and it has 75% stun which works on grounds... but otherwise it's really blah all around.
Nidoqueen: 5/10. Good TM/HM list, average stats... eh, it works. I can't say I liked them in RBY (just use Clefable, better Special), but in GSC the standards are lower.
Nidoking: 5/10. As above.
Muk: 2/10. Kanto scrub with some usability.
Gengar: 6/10. (as Haunter) The stats and typing are nice, and between Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb and Night Shade it isn't completely awful damage, and Hypnosis/Confuse Ray is decent annoyance. That said the sleep could be more accurate.
Weezing: 2.5/10. Doomed by a Level 35 evolution. It could have been useful otherwise, Weezing stats are pretty okay.
Crobat: 6/10. Great stats, confuse ray... offence is kind of iffy until Fly, though. (gym 5) I found it pretty great in HGSS but Wing Attack is a lot earlier there, and Bite is earlier/physical.
Misdreavus: 3/10. You can use this against Ash... uh. Well it wrecks the Snorlax. I guess that's worth something.
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Minor nitpicks that (probably) shouldn't impact anyone's grades:
Synthesis is only 25% healing unless you use it between 10 am and 6 pm in gen 2, which makes it severely unreliable in-game unless you only play the game at very specific times. This is so incredibly dumb they made it 50% all the time like in link battles in later generations. Morning Sun and Moonlight work similarly but at different points in time. I suspect Moonlight is the best of these in practice, since playing from 6 pm to 3 am only is actually pretty common for a lot of people on weekdays.
Sunkern and Sun Stones are both available at the same place, National Park. The caveat here is that you have to win the Bug Catching Contest to get the latter, which is Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday only. Winning is pretty easy if you know how the scoring system works, but it does require you to plan out what days you play the game on or stall a day, which might well be worth knocking some points from its already-bad score.
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Oh right. I even remember being confused about Synthesis until I looked it up.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8/10.
Heat: 3/10.
Argilla: 7/10.
Gale: 6.5/10.
Cielo: 3/10.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8.5/10. There's a limit to how good PCs like Serph can be, since everyone in DDS has the same skillset. That said Serph is at that limit. His stats are by definition the best possible; you decide what those are.
Heat: 3/10. Fighters in DDS1 were pretty bad.
Argilla: 7/10. Argilla has the most magic, which is the best stat: it means the best magic damage (i.e. best damage), best MP, AND the best magic defence. Her durability could be a touch better but because Magic affects MDef (as mentioned) it's not too bad.
Gale: 5.5/10. Gale's okay. Third in magic (= third best PC because :dds:), okay durability, doesn't have a crippling weakness.
Cielo: 3/10. Has a crippling weakness, and the stats aren't great anyway.
Sounds about right.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8/10.
Heat: 3/10.
Argilla: 7/10.
Gale: 6.5/10.
Cielo: 3/10.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8/10. In a game like this, you can only be so good, but Serph is by definition the best.
Heat: 3/10. Physical Fighter in DDS, you drop him as soon as you get Gale.
Argilla: 7/10. Focuses on the right stats.
Gale: 6/10. On one hand, he's notably worse than Serph or ARgilla, but he's easily the #3 character so above average score!
Cielo: 2/10. Never a reason to use him; at least Heat was forced due to early game. Weakness to status is worse than weakness to an element on top of all that.
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Venusaur: DNR.
Vileplume: 3/10. Grass types have issues in this game, and Bellsprout is gotten first.
Parasect: 2/10. This guy sucks.
Victreebel: 6/10. If you didn't pick Chikorita your viable grass types basically end at this guy. STAB Sludge Bomb gives it some worth late game.
Exeggutor: 4/10. Thanks to Confusion, he's passable as a Psychic type who can resist Water moves.
Tangela: 2/10. Tangela got an evolution in Gen 4 for a reason.
Meganium: 7/10. Probably the best starter AND best Grass type in game. Tanky, gets Razor Leaf REALLY early so it has actual offense the entire game, and even has better speed than most!
Bellossom: 2/10. Vileplume without STAB Sludge Bomb potential.
Jumpluff: 4/10. It has Status and nothing else. That makes it better than most Grass types.
Sunflora: 1/10. An odd case where if you could catch it at a lower level, it'd be better, but nope! Misses the only move that would make it workable, and so it's garbage.
Celebi: DNR.
Butterfree: 5/10. Butterfree as always has some use for early game purposes due to actual speed and status, high stats for early game, and early confusion slinger. His use is probably a little higher here because of how levels are lower so it's bad stats vs. other higher stage Pokemon doesn't present itself until later.
Beedrill: 3/10. Beedrill has always had issues.
Venomoth: 3/10. On paper, should be a better Butterfree; in practice gotten too late to care.
Pinsir: 3/10. I guess he can do damage with Strength or something.
Ledian: 2/10. Reflect and Light Screen give it something resembling a niche, but I can't raise it above this because it's kind of bad.
Ariados: 1/10. And yet, this guy is even worse...
Yanma: 1/10. Like Tangela, it got an evolution for a reason.
Forretress: 1/10. I tried to use one in a game, but good god is Pineco awful, and Forretress just doesn't make up for it.
Scizor: 5/10. This ranking mostly based on Scyther because you are unlikely to get a Scizor. He's fast with offensive stats, and reasonably obtainable due to bug catching contest.
Shuckle: 2/10. It doesn't die, but it won't kill anything else.
Heracross: 4/10. I tried to use Heracross too; at least STrength gives him some offense to use that 120 Attack with, but yeah, really needed Mega Horn or an actual Fighting move at a lower level.
Arbok: 1/10. Is Bad.
Nidoqueen: 3/10. Is subpar.
Nidoking: 3.5/10. Slightly less subpar!
Muk: 1/10. Is also bad.
Gengar: 5/10. As Haunter, it's still service-able.
Weezing: 1/10. One more Generation Weezing and you won't suck.
Crobat: 6/10. Oh hey, look! Something that's actually good and obtainable in game!
Misdreavus: 2/10. Stupid late and not very good? Don't you love these options? One point for Red's Snorlax I guess.
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Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Venusaur: DNR
Vileplume: lol. 2/10
Parasect: I don't care about sleep *that* much. 2/10.
Victreebel: yeah there are a grand total of two grass types that actually matter ingame and one of them is the grass starter. That is worth turning a blind eye to some shortcomings there. 5/10
Exeggutor: better than vileplume does it want a cookie. 3/10
Tangela: lol. 2/10
Meganium: early razor leaf is a thing and at least half the stuff it matches up poorly against sucks anyways. 7/10
Bellossom: Vileplume that loses STAB options FUCK YEAH. 1.5/10
Jumpluff: Well it's funny, at least. Too bad about having zero offense. And manages to be #3 for grass anyways because lolgen2 grass options 4/10.
Sunflora: good fucking grief. 1.5/10
Celebi: DNR
Butterfree: It has its earlygame uses but probably its worst gen yeah. 4/10
Beedrill: On the other hand this still sucks. 1/10
Venomoth: No. 2/10
Pinsir: I'd rather use a Normal type. 2/10
Ledian: ah... ha... ha... 1/10
Ariados: no. 1/10
Yanma: fuck. 1/10
Forretress: getout. 1/10
Scizor: 3/10 based solely off of Scyther. At least it has stats to avoid being a complete embarrasment, but good grief, get a better moveset.
Shuckle: It's funny, at least. 2/10
Heracross: 120 Attack avoids being a complete embarrasment but good grief does it really have no actual STAB offense until Lv54. 3/10
Arbok: lol. 2/10
Nidoqueen: At least it has options. 4/10
Nidoking: As above, so below. 4/10
Muk: Kanto scrub. 1/10
Gengar: 5/10 assuming Haunter, which is serviceable though not outstanding.
Weezing: nah. 2/10
Crobat: holy shit a reason to use zubat. 6/10
Misdreavus: MT. SILVER. No I'm not going to give it a full point extra for owning Red's Snorlax. 1/10.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8.5
Heat: 4
Argilla: 7
Gale: 6
Cielo: 2
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Venusaur: DNR
Vileplume: 3
Parasect: 3.5 for Spore
Victreebel: 5.5
Exeggutor: 4
Tangela: 2
Meganium: 7
Bellossom: 2
Jumpluff: 4
Sunflora: 1
Celebi: DNR
Butterfree: 7 - earlygame worth is weighted heavily since earlygame is the only place you're likely to find challenge in Pokemon
Beedrill: 2
Venomoth: 2
Pinsir: 3
Ledian: 2
Ariados: 1
Yanma: 1
Forretress: 2
Scizor: 5
Shuckle: 4 - not dying is a great niche in-game because it gives you time to throw potions and revives to not miss out on that delicious exp
Heracross: 3
Arbok: 2
Nidoqueen: 3
Nidoking: 3
Muk: 2
Gengar: 6
Weezing: 1
Crobat: 6
Misdreavus: 2
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earlygame worth is weighted heavily since earlygame is the only place you're likely to find challenge in Pokemon
This may be true in some of the games, but it sure as heck isn't true in GSC. The first two gym leaders are mega-scrubs. (Whitney, if she's still considered early, is pretty good but Butterfree performs horribly there, being very likely outsped and OHKOed.)
Butterfree's still decent enough mind. GSC standards.
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Updating Tomorrow, those who want to rate, do it within the next 24 hours (possibly less because I don't follow rules!), and those who wish to finish ratings and haven't yet, do it now or else...you simply will be left incomplete <_<?
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Just against randoms and other trainers along the way. Not necessarily the first two gyms themselves.
Also, fast status and such is really useful for catching monsters, so that's something I'm baking into that rating.
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Butterfree isn't particularly fast...
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Butterfree's reasonably fast when taken against the various really junk trainers GSC throws at you with unevolved trash.
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Digital Devil Saga:
Average STDEVA
Serph 8.07 0.53
Heat 3.43 0.79
Argilla 6.71 0.76
Gale 5.93 0.45
Cielo 2.71 0.49
Standard Deviation: 2.25
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Average STDEVA
Venusaur N/A N/A
Vileplume 2.42 0.49
Parasect 2.25 0.61
Victreebel 5.42 0.80
Exeggutor 3.50 0.55
Tangela 2.50 0.77
Meganium 6.83 0.26
Bellossom 2.50 2.24
Jumpluff 3.75 1.84
Sunflora 1.25 0.76
Celebi N/A N/A
Butterfree 4.50 1.38
Beedrill 1.92 0.80
Venomoth 2.00 0.71
Pinsir 2.83 0.75
Ledian 1.58 0.92
Ariados 1.00 0.00
Yanma 1.00 0.00
Forretress 1.42 0.49
Scizor 4.17 0.98
Shuckle 2.58 1.11
Heracross 3.25 0.61
Arbok 1.80 0.45
Nidoqueen 3.80 0.84
Nidoking 3.90 0.74
Muk 1.60 0.55
Gengar 6.25 1.25
Weezing 1.70 0.67
Crobat 6.00 0.00
Misdreavus 2.00 1.03
I've decided I'm just going to stop with the "Best Rating" and "Worst Rating" stuff from now on; with the bolding and italicizing, I feel it gets the same point across while not looking as redundant. If you really want me to keep doing that, just proclaim it loudly and annoyingly so I will notice it and I will bring it back if there is enough!
Also, because there were a number of split ratings, but not enough people rating this session to justify splitting ti up, I just assumed Scyther/Scizor were the same here. Likewise, I went based on Gengar, not "Gengar vs. Haunter."
Next game to go along with Pokemon is something I just sort of noticed wasn't done and went "Screw it, we're doing it!" I'm splitting it up based on character, as opposed to class, because not everyone used every class, and even then, the character having access to the class is a specific advantage and yada yada yada just deal with it!
Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela:
Carlie:
Duran:
Hawkeye:
Kevin:
Lise:
Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash:
Dugtrio:
Golem:
Marowak:
Rhydon:
Aerodactyl:
Gligar:
Steelix:
Donphan:
Sudowoodo:
Skarmory:
Primeape:
Machamp:
Himonlee:
Hitmonchan:
Hitmontop:
Alakazam:
Hypno:
Mr. Mime:
Mewtwo:
Mew:
Xatu:
Espeon:
Unown:
Wobuffet:
Lugia:
For those wondering why the order is the way it is...I originally was going to do Rock/Ground/Steel only then realized how few those were, so said screw it and tossed in Fighting and Psychic, hopefully finishing off the rest of Pokemon (Flying was covered through everything else due to nothing but Dual Types.) As a result, it's vaguely split up by typings, but not perfectly here...I know no one cares about order, but shh!
If I've missed ANY typings, please let me know!
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I think you made some errors, Meeple.
-Meganium got only scores of 6.5 or 7, but its average is listed as 6...
-Nidoking and Nidoqueen got the same scores from everyone (except for one half-point difference), you have them a full point apart.
And that's just at a quick glance; wouldn't be shocked if there are some others.
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Ok, fixed; the errors were simple derps on my end, thank you for noticing.
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10. Great MT damage early which never becomes terrible, and hits weakness on most bosses. Makes a ridiculous difference for some fights which exploit physical immunity (Gorva comes to mind). On the other hand she is a bit frail and some enemies counter magic which she has to watch out for.
Carlie: 7/10. I don't really like using her much; she's boring but undoubtedly rather good. Fast Heal Lights are great for dealing with enemy damage and she extends your resources a lot. Depending on the build she can also get other useful things like sabres or Black Curse or Turn Undead.
Duran: 3/10. Scrubby. Might be the #2 fighter but it's a distant #2, and his skillset is pretty bad. Sabres are okay.
Hawkeye: 5/10. Stat downs are good and he's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early.
Kevin: 8/10. Smash you in the face. Best fighter by a lot and you probably want one. Best durability to boot.
Lise: 5/10. Stat downs are good and she's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early. (Lise vs. Hawk have a bunch of subtle differences but not sure how much I care about any of them.)
Grounds really want that Earthquake TM, but so do a lot of pokemon, and it's really late. I have a hard time respecting it much, though I'll at least think about it for grounds, unlike everyone else. There is also Dig, but that's only 60 power.
Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10. Badly needs ground TMs. Has a decent stat build if it gets them, trash otherwise.
Dugtrio: 2/10. Kanto. At least it learns ground attacks and is fast.
Golem: 6.5/10. Good typing, actually learns useful things, though wishes EQ was just slightly earlier. Graveller stats start looking mediocre around the end though, in particular that speed is awful.
Marowak: 3/10. If I understand correctly, you can buy one at the Game Corner, but those will never have Thick Clubs? Without that... it's a ground which learns really powerful moves (Bonemerang!) but has crap stats. Toss in the extra effort needed to get it in the first place and respect is low.
Rhydon: 3/10. Late and has crap innate skills, but pretty good stats if you want to TM it I guess.
Aerodactyl: 1/10. Kanto, underlevelled.
Gligar: 2/10. It has pretty average stats. It also gets practically no STAB moves even with TMs.
Steelix: 4.5/10. Onix actually isn't that bad! You gain it early when it's fast and it's got quick exp gain due to being a trade evo. But overall you're better off longterm running Geodude, who learns more innate moves and eventually has notably better stats.
Donphan: 3/10. Pretty much a Rhydon variant. Gained at the same time, similar stat build and crap skillset, no rock... eh whatever.
Sudowoodo: 4.5/10. Mm. It's slow, but it actually learns Rock Slide (!) and Low Kick, so it's functional filler.
Skarmory: 5/10. Decent stats/good typing and can learn Fly. Can also use its bulk and typing to annoy fighters with Sand Attack. A bit underlevelled... but sure.
Primeape: 6/10. Solid enough speed and actually learns fighting moves, and its elemental punches aren't totally negligible. A bit underlevelled though.
Machamp: 5/10. A lot slower than Primeape, but it's in a better situation level-wise. Probably still balances out to a loss though.
Himonlee: 2/10. Getting one is just obnoxious. Tyrogue then make sure it gets the right stat exp? Okay. There's a non-Odd Egg way but then it's underlevelled and you still have the dumb Tyrogue stage. Pretty good if you go to the trouble.
Hitmonchan: 1/10. Why they didn't raise this thing's SA in gen 2 is beyond me, isn't its whole game elemental punches?
Hitmontop: 1/10.
Alakazam: 7.5/10. Let's take an already good pokemon and give it elemental punches, what a great idea. The durability is pretty bad late without the trade evo, though.
Hypno: 6/10. Zam who can take hits but isn't nearly as good on offence, also no Recover. This is still good.
Mr. Mime: 1/10. Kanto scrub.
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 3/10. Nice typing, decent stats... -_- but the skillset. It learns nothing at reasonable levels beyond Night Shade and HM Fly off its lower attack stat.
Espeon: 3/10. Great stats, but no special attacks until Level 36 unless you breed Eevee to get a lower-levelled Espeon. Sigh. They really didn't want you to use that Eevee for offence, did they.
Unown: 1/10. Don't have to look anything up for this one!
Wobuffet: 5/10. I'm not really sure. I have used one before and they are really weird. They can often kill bosses who don't try to set up on it, and GSC bosses don't really do set ups so I imagine this works okay. Randoms they'll take down one or two then bow out. Really strange, I'll just give it an average score.
Lugia: 9/10. It's Lugia. Late but obviously rules.
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10. Great MT damage early which never becomes terrible, and hits weakness on most bosses. Makes a ridiculous difference for some fights which exploit physical immunity (Gorva comes to mind). On the other hand she is a bit frail and some enemies counter magic which she has to watch out for.
Carlie: 7/10. I don't really like using her much; she's boring but undoubtedly rather good. Fast Heal Lights are great for dealing with enemy damage and she extends your resources a lot. Depending on the build she can also get other useful things like sabres or Black Curse or Turn Undead.
Duran: 3/10. Scrubby. Might be the #2 fighter but it's a distant #2, and his skillset is pretty bad. Sabres are okay.
Hawkeye: 5/10. Stat downs are good and he's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early.
Kevin: 8/10. Smash you in the face. Best fighter by a lot and you probably want one. Best durability to boot.
Lise: 5/10. Stat downs are good and she's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early. (Lise vs. Hawk have a bunch of subtle differences but not sure how much I care about any of them.)
Grounds really want that Earthquake TM, but so do a lot of pokemon, and it's really late. I have a hard time respecting it much, though I'll at least think about it for grounds, unlike everyone else. There is also Dig, but that's only 60 power.
Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10. Badly needs ground TMs. Has a decent stat build if it gets them, trash otherwise.
Dugtrio: 2/10. Kanto. At least it learns ground attacks and is fast.
Golem: 6.5/10. Good typing, actually learns useful things, though wishes EQ was just slightly earlier. Graveller stats start looking mediocre around the end though, in particular that speed is awful.
Marowak: 3/10. If I understand correctly, you can buy one at the Game Corner, but those will never have Thick Clubs? Without that... it's a ground which learns really powerful moves (Bonemerang!) but has crap stats. Toss in the extra effort needed to get it in the first place and respect is low.
Rhydon: 3/10. Late and has crap innate skills, but pretty good stats if you want to TM it I guess.
Aerodactyl: 1/10. Kanto, underlevelled.
Gligar: 2/10. It has pretty average stats. It also gets practically no STAB moves even with TMs.
Steelix: 4.5/10. Onix actually isn't that bad! You gain it early when it's fast and it's got quick exp gain due to being a trade evo. But overall you're better off longterm running Geodude, who learns more innate moves and eventually has notably better stats.
Donphan: 3/10. Pretty much a Rhydon variant. Gained at the same time, similar stat build and crap skillset, no rock... eh whatever.
Sudowoodo: 4.5/10. Mm. It's slow, but it actually learns Rock Slide (!) and Low Kick, so it's functional filler.
Skarmory: 5/10. Decent stats/good typing and can learn Fly. Can also use its bulk and typing to annoy fighters with Sand Attack. A bit underlevelled... but sure.
Primeape: 6/10. Solid enough speed and actually learns fighting moves, and its elemental punches aren't totally negligible. A bit underlevelled though.
Machamp: 5/10. A lot slower than Primeape, but it's in a better situation level-wise. Probably still balances out to a loss though.
Himonlee: 2/10. Getting one is just obnoxious. Tyrogue then make sure it gets the right stat exp? Okay. There's a non-Odd Egg way but then it's underlevelled and you still have the dumb Tyrogue stage. Pretty good if you go to the trouble.
Hitmonchan: 1/10. Why they didn't raise this thing's SA in gen 2 is beyond me, isn't its whole game elemental punches?
Hitmontop: 1/10.
Alakazam: 7.5/10. Let's take an already good pokemon and give it elemental punches, what a great idea. The durability is pretty bad late without the trade evo, though.
Hypno: 6/10. Zam who can take hits but isn't nearly as good on offence, also no Recover. This is still good.
Mr. Mime: 1/10. Kanto scrub.
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 3/10. Nice typing, decent stats... -_- but the skillset. It learns nothing at reasonable levels beyond Night Shade and HM Fly off its lower attack stat.
Espeon: 3/10. Great stats, but no special attacks until Level 36 unless you breed Eevee to get a lower-levelled Espeon. Sigh. They really didn't want you to use that Eevee for offence, did they.
Unown: 1/10. Don't have to look anything up for this one!
Wobuffet: 5/10. I'm not really sure. I have used one before and they are really weird. They can often kill bosses who don't try to set up on it, and GSC bosses don't really do set ups so I imagine this works okay. Randoms they'll take down one or two then bow out. Really strange, I'll just give it an average score.
Lugia: 9/10. It's Lugia. Late but obviously rules.
...damn that is a thorough write up. I have nothing to add.
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10
Carlie: 7/10
Duran: 3/10
Hawkeye: 5/10
Kevin: 8/10
Lise: 5/10
Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10
Dugtrio: 2/10
Golem: 5/10
Marowak: 2/10
Rhydon: 3/10
Aerodactyl: 1/10
Gligar: 2/10
Steelix: 4/10
Donphan: 3/10
Sudowoodo: 4/10
Skarmory: 5/10
Primeape: 6/10
Machamp: 4/10
Himonlee: 1/10
Hitmonchan: 1/10
Hitmontop: 1/10
Alakazam: 7/10
Hypno: 6/10
Mr. Mime: 1/10
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 3/10
Espeon: 3/10
Unown: 0/10
Wobuffet: Abstain
Lugia: 9/10
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Anyone opposed to, at some point in the not too distant future (which is about as vague a statement as I can make!) about re-ranking previously ranked games? This is more gauging interest and they would only happen alongside something else added on.
Sure, I'll chime in. What's the point while there's still plenty of unranked games? To be sure, if you want, have a session that strongly encourages people to rank any games they missed before from the list of ranked games, but I don't really see the point of re-doing games unless there's reason to think interpretations have changed.
If you're worried about low turnout due to increasing obscura, well, throw up 4 different obscura games at once. Something like FF12RW / Sands of Destruction / Some more obscure Tales game / Lost Odyssey? I certainly think we should do obscura at SOME point, there might not be enough rankings for averages, but I'd still be interested in thoughts on character balance.
Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 6/10? - vs. other commentators -1. My "problem" with Angela is more annoyance - SD3 already is pausing the action for L2 & L3 specials all the time, Angela is a very heavy menu caster if you want to get the most out of her. This makes her less good from a "time efficiency / sanity" perspective IMHO, even if she's obviously great for bosses.
Carlie: 8/10 - A Carlie-less playthrough of SD3 strikes me as something very different, since you're stuck with 9 Poto Oils for MT healing in a game where MT attacks are not that uncommon.
Duran: 3/10 - He's not exactly "bad", just seems strictly worse than Kevin. Kevin & Duran have healing, Hawk & Lise have stat manipulation, but Kevin does more damage than Duran.
Hawkeye: 6/10
Kevin: 7/10
Lise: 6/10
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 6/10. Strong early game, iffy midgame, strong late game.
Carlie: 4/10. She's a good back up, but she's also easily replaced. Poto Oils are available early, and you should never need more than 9 per boss fight sans the final bosses, and even then, you have other healing items.
Duran: 3/10. His best use is FST + Aura Wave...which requires another character entirely.
Hawkeye: 7/10. 2nd best physical in the game thanks to two hits, Stat Downs, Wanderer's slew of nonsense, and he starts the game with his best tech.
Kevin: 8/10. Healing, HP, high damage, you know the drill.
Lise: 6.5/10. Similar to Hawkeye but notably weaker Physical (if nothing else, the level 1 tech makes a huge difference here.)
Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10. Passable but nothing special.
Dugtrio: 2/10. Kanto only so yeah...
Golem: 6/10. Magnitude allows for actual ground damage the entire game that doesn't suck, and the chance of a weak one is low. Trade evo hurts, but Graveler is at least a solid 2nd form.
Marowak: 2/10. Late and requires a rare item.
Rhydon: 3/10. On paper, he's Golem+, in practice, he's later and has a worse level up set in a game where that's a big deal.
Aerodactyl: 3/10. Didn't realize at first this thing was actually obtainable in game.
Gligar: 2/10. He got an evolution in Gen 4 for a reason.
Steelix: 4/10. Onix is a good Jeigan this time around; Steelix itself is good but trade evo means I can't realistically give it higher than this, and like most Jeigans, Onix ends up being bad.
Donphan: 4/10. Should be Sandslash+, but level up set holds it back
Sudowoodo: 4/10. Ok, joins with a good level out of the gate and stats aren't awful, so that gives it some use...but only some...
Skarmory: 5/10. It's late in Johto, but decent at what it is.
Primeape: 6/10. Fighting types don't suck this time around, Primeape has stats mostly in the right places and just competent enough moveset to match.
Machamp: 4/10. Trade Evo hurts, but Machoke isn't too bad a 2nd stage, but yeah, not as good as Primeape.
Himonlee: 2.5/10. Looks fine on paper but good god is getting one at a reasonable point stupid.
Hitmonchan: 1/10. Why would you use this, ever?
Hitmontop: 1.510. Worse than Hitmonlee and equally stupid to get.
Alakazam: 7/10. Elemental Punches on something that, despite the trade evo, is already fairly competent in it's own right.
Hypno: 3/10. Nerfed notably since Gen 1.
Mr. Mime: 1/10. Yeah, "Kanto scrub" works here.
Mewtwo: DNR.
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 4/10. Adequate but nothing special.
Espeon: 3/10. Yeah, that moveset really makes it hard to justify using Espeon, despite the stats.
Unown: 0.5/10. About as bad as a Pokemon can get, I can't justify giving it 0 because you can get one stupid early when they're stats are technically high and hit the jackpot on Hidden Power, maybe. That's literally it's only use and worth getting above a 0.
Wobuffet: 5/10. It's effective at what it is, but the nature of it means it's uses are limited because it needs to get hurt to hurt things.
Lugia: 9/10. Can we say Uber?
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10.
Carlie: 5/10.
Duran: 3/10.
Hawkeye: 6/10.
Kevin: 8/10.
Lise: 6.5/10.
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10.
Carlie: 5/10.
Duran: 3/10.
Hawkeye: 6/10.
Kevin: 8/10.
Lise: 6.5/10.
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SD3:
Angela: 8/10, basically echo NEB's arguments with the added point that if you want to face SD3's superboss for some reason you basically have to pick her as your main.
Carlie: 7/10. Boring but effective as NEB says.
Duran: 1/10. Utter trash, I won't even give him #2 fighter (I'd argue Hawkeye beats him in the long run, it's very close though!) What might have been his one saving grace (shields) is completely nonfunctional due to a bug.
Hawkeye: 6/10. Statdowns are good, and his physical damage is eventually decent against many enemies (high defense causes him issues).
Kevin: 9/10. Would be amazing even without bugs helping his damage, but, well, bugs help his damage.
Lise: 6/10. Statdowns are good. She would be a point lower than Hawkeye because her physical damage isn't as good and is pretty consistently poor overall... but since you can pair her with Hawkeye and have him run statdowns while she runs statups, it evens out IMO.
Pokemon rock/ground/fighting/psychic/steel junk:
Most of these I'm not going to bother explaining much.
Sandslash: 5.5/10. Slightly worse Donphan gotten slightly later. I suppose having Dig as an option bumps it up a half point from the 5/10 I'd otherwise give it?
Dugtrio: 2/10. Good for Kanto but not saying much
Golem: 5.5/10. Probably best of the bunch, but I dock it a point for the trade evo.
Marowak: 3/10
Rhydon: 3/10. It's Donphan with slightly better stats and an even worse movepool amd also really fucking late, no thanks.
Aerodactyl: 1/10
Gligar: 1.5/10
Steelix: 4/10. Good but loses points for trade evo.
Donphan: 6/10. On the one hand, no STAB. On the other hand, mono-Ground is a better defensive typing than Rock/Ground IMO. On the other other hand, that is less true in Gen 2 because Normal moves still dominate a lot. He's catchable extremely early in Crystal, but horribly late in Silver and not at all in Gold. He also evolves exceptionally early for something with the stats he has, Rollout is scary off 120 base attack... the lack of STAB until deep in Kanto is definitely a thing though. Although his stats make up for it quite a bit, and it's not like Strength is a bad move.
Sudowoodo: 5/10
Skarmory: 7/10. It's late and a bit underleveled but not so much it can't catch up and the typing is fantastic.
Primeape: 6/10. About as good as you'll get for gen 2 fighting.
Machamp: 4/10. Trade evo and worse than Primeape? Meh.
Hitmonlee: 1/10. Fuck Tyrogue's crazy evolution method.
Hitmonchan: 0.5/10. Absolute garbage pre-gen 4.
Hitmontop: 0/10. LOL actually getting this damn thing.
Alakazam: 8/10. Amazing Gen 1 pokemon gets better in Gen 2 with easy elemental punch access, jesus. And that's even with me disrespecting the trade evo.
Hypno: 7/10. Like NEB said, Alakazam with worse offense and much better defense. It's not a bad trade.
Mr. Mime: 1/10
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 2/10. Wishes it had a better movepool.
Espeon: 2/10. fuck breeding
Unown: 0/10 LOL
Wobbuffet: I really don't know what to rate this thing, but NEB's argument is correct. 5/10 I guess.
Lugia: 9/10, needs no explanation
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Oh, good catch on Phanpy being catchable early; I assumed route 46 would come after route 45, silly me.
That said, this pretty much turns it into another Sandslash. A bunch of minor differences (less atk but more durability before evo, less speed but more atk after evo, evolves 3 levels later) but same idea: ground TMs or GTFO. The problem for Phanpy is that it can't learn Dig, so unlike Sandslash it has no ground STAB at all until the Earthquake TM which of course is hotly contested.
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Yeah. Phanpy's biggest draws to me are definitely the relatively early evolution at level 25 (compare Rhyhorn -> Rhydon at 42) while having a fair bit better stats than Sandslash (which does evolve at 22).
It doesn't really care that it misses Dig, since Strength and Rollout are both arguably better despite the lack of STAB - two turn setup is somewhat unfavorable when coming from a slow mon, although I don't remember if GSC AI is smart enough to switch to a flying type against it. In any case, it does learn Earthquake on its own in Kanto, and Strength probably holds it over until then (80 BP off 120 attack is nothing to sneeze at in GSC, even STAB-less, really).
That all said, I didn't realize how close the two were really; Sandslash's deficiencies don't merit it being three points lower. Editing that.
addendum - to break down why I don't consider Dig that careworthy: Ground is really not that great of an attacking type in GSC due to sheer lack of moves for most of the game combined with the fact that almost everything ground SEs, some other type SEs earlier and better. Fire and Rock get splashed by the ever-ubiquitous Surf (especially since almost all Rock types are also /Ground and thus W4'ed) - and Donphan counters Fire anyway via Rollout, Poison types are both near-universally shitty in GSC and better handled by a fast psychic type (Kadabra or even Hypno really) anyway, since physical tends to be poison types' good defense, and finally of the three relevant Steel types in GSC, one is water-weak, one is W4'ed by the Fire Punch you undoubtedly have somewhere in your team (Kadabra?) and the last immunes ground. And two of those are weak to Rollout too, including the ground-immune one. That leaves Electric... and GSC is really lacking in good Electrics - I don't think you actually face any of Ampharos, Raichu or Electabuzz in maingame, and Mareep/Flaaffy/Pikachu/Elekid more or less all should basically die to Donphan's Strength. And even if you do face the good ones, well, none of them have any offense against Donphan worth mentioning, so there's that.
It definitely gets better even by gen 3 by virtue of ground moves actually existing before level 40 on things!
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Pretty sure GSC AI does not switch against Dig (and in general, doesn't run many mixes of flyers with non-flyers even if it did), so the setup turn isn't a terribly big deal in-game. Dig/Fly are much better moves in-game than they are in competitive, generally. Dig's outright broken in-game in RBY, which is why they dropped its power by 40 in the sequel.
Additionally, the whole point of a ground is to hit all the ground weaknesses, I think. Ground weakness is common (rock, steel, fire, poison, and electric) so it's nice to be able to hit it. If you want something that does normal and non-STAB rock, you can do so much better than any of these guys, especially considering their speed stats which range from mediocre to awful. Heck, Furret has a similarly damaging Strength(/Return), off much better speed (though less physical durability).... and it's Furret for crying out loud. Same with the beefy-stat-but-no-STAB bugs (Pinsir, Scyther, Heracross), or the fighting types like Primeape, who actually do get a useful STAB as well. Never mind pokemon like Miltank or Tauros, which have both STAB normal and good overall stats / other skills to recommend 'em.
Of course one issue Sandslash faces is that the Dig TM will go to use somewhere regardless, and while it's nice that it has STAB on it, overall it can't get full credit. This is one reason that, say, Geodude is clearly better than either; it learns both rock and ground attacks naturally at relatively low levels (11 Rock Throw, 16 Magnitude) and has STAB on them.
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Furret is not Strengthing better than Donphan I'm pretty sure (Phanpy I definitely give you) and I'd definitely rather have the bulk anyway. As for Geodude, I would definitely say Geodude is the best of the bunch if you have the means to evolve it to Golem. (If it's stuck at Graveler stage, IMO, Sandslash or Donphan is a better investment for the long game.)
Really, I suppose, the biggest thing Donphan has going for it over all the other alternatives you mention (and they are good alternatives, I agree) is that it's in the second route in the game (in Crystal) and has a decent catch rate once it appears (albeit a low appearance rate of 5%); every alternative is either considerably later, considerably harder to catch, or both. (Except for Mankey, all of them are 5% appearance rates, and Mankey/Miltank/Tauros are all moderately late, with Mankey being the latest. Mankey also has the problem of being a single-game exclusive where that game isn't Crystal.)
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Seiken Densetsu 3:
Average STDEVA
Angela 6.88 0.64
Carlie 6.25 1.39
Duran 2.75 0.71
Hawkeye 5.75 0.71
Kevin 8.00 0.53
Lise 5.81 0.70
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.76
Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Average STDEVA
Sandslash 4.30 0.67
Dugtrio 2.00 0.00
Golem 5.90 0.65
Marowak 2.60 0.55
Rhydon 3.00 0.00
Aerodactyl 1.40 0.89
Gligar 1.90 0.22
Steelix 4.20 0.27
Donphan 3.80 1.30
Sudowoodo 4.40 0.42
Skarmory 5.40 0.89
Primeape 6.00 0.00
Machamp 4.40 0.55
Himonlee 1.70 0.670
Hitmonchan 0.90 0.22
Hitmontop 0.80 0.45
Alakazam 7.40 0.42
Hypno 5.60 1.52
Mr. Mime 1.00 0.00
Mewtwo N/A N/A
Mew N/A N/A
Xatu 3.00 0.71
Espeon 2.80 0.45
Unown 0.50 0.50
Wobuffet N/A (5.00) N/A (0.00)
Lugia 9.00 0.00
Fun Fact: Both the highest AND lowest rated Pokemon were this session, with Lugia and Unown respectively. Congrats to both. Also, this session makes me want to shoot myself because of how many things I am adding to the Bottom 20+, stupid Tyrogue Evolutions <_<
We'll take it easy this session with one overdue game, and one that's a bit of a shot in the dark:
Mother 3:
Lucas:
Flint:
Duster:
Kumatora:
Salsa:
Boney:
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria:
Alicia:
Rufus:
Dylan:
Lezard:
Arngrim:
Leone:
Brahms:
Hrist:
Lenneth:
Silmeria:
Freya:
Archers:
Heavy Warriors:
Light Warriors:
Mages:
About this session: The nature of VP2 means that the Einherjar are such that differences aren't major between each job sans a few exceptions, as well as lots of split pathes and attacks aren't as obvious in their uses on paper given the Active Battle system. Rather than me subjectively picking the exceptions, rate the Einherjar based on class, in addition to which, if you want to rate a specific one for whatever reason (be it good, bad, or just kind of weird), feel free to write them in. Just remember that someone needs 5+ ratings to be considered official, so if you rated and I didn't list it, that'd be why! Don't let that discourage you of course; rate *insert random Einherjar no one cares about here* all you want!
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Furret is not Strengthing better than Donphan I'm pretty sure (Phanpy I definitely give you) and I'd definitely rather have the bulk anyway.
It's extremely close; the damage can basically be considered equal (depends on how much stat exp you get... if you go by DL stat topic assumptions, Furret comes out fractionally ahead). STAB matters that much. Since Furret has +40 speed and much better TM compatibility I'd call it a better pokemon, though durability still makes this at least vaguely debatable.
Graveler's Magnitude outdamages Donphan or Sandslash Strength (while being of a type which is much more useful than normal), and it gets STAB rock as well (certainly more effective than their rock moves as such, and doesn't need a TM or level 34 either). It does have worse speed than either, granted, although how much that matters with how slow they all are is debatable. It looks even better prior to evolution where Geodude doesn't just have better attacks, but better stats as well (also rock typing is almost purely positive early... lots of flying, bug, and normal). Once you do get the Earthquake TM I'd agree with you that Golem would be needed to stay ahead... but that's very late.
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Lucas: 8/10 skillset
Flint: 7/10 dad power
Duster: 5/10 only one good leg so only 5
Kumatora: 7/10 p. good benefits from overlevelling
Salsa: 2/10 my favorite monkey
Boney: 3/10 dogecoin
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Alicia: 7.5/10. Heal is a very handy skill to have. Light warrior attacks are also nice for tying up enemies and keeping the combo going, but normally not nice on damage... so Alicia having actually adequate damage is a welcome boon. You could bench her but I see little reason to do so. If consider Valkyrie to be her then she crushes final boss like a bug.
Rufus: 7/10. His later attacks are really good, and he gets some pretty handy buffs. Merely solid for much of the early and midgame, though.
Dylan: 6/10. Hits hard, has HP.
Lezard: 2.5/10. VP2 mage. He has an okay skillset but the damage is so awful and you can get the spells other ways.
Arngrim: 5/10. Seemed kind of underwhelming, but not bad.
Leone: 4/10. Light warrior, not as good at it as Alicia.
Lategame/SG people are difficult to rate. I'm trying to rate mainly on maingame here, but I can't bring myself to penalise these people for their narrow availability because if you do the SG they do have a lot of it. YMMV.
Brahms: 6.5/10. Nice stats there, Brahms.
Hrist: 6/10. Good, needs the SG to be great though.
Lenneth: 8/10. Alicia plus more or less? The availability makes her hard to rate.
Silmeria: 5/10. Only so bad an archer can be, but there's no real reason to use her either.
Freya: DNR?
Archers: 7/10. Archers are great, able to output loads of damage (or add status), and there are great ways to twink them even further. A number of them even have some handy menu spells as well, and their HP isn't bad like you'd expect.
Heavy Warriors: 5.5/10. They provide HP and decent damage, but archer damage tends to end up better in practice and they're harder to combo with.
Light Warriors: 4/10. Light warrior, not as good at is as Alicia.
Mages: 2.5/10. They have some spells but their damage is awful and the HP is poor too. Why bother when Alicia/Rufus/Lenneth cover all the spells you really need? Compared to Lezard, most of them at least get Heal (which he manages to miss) but their stats are a bit worse, whatever same score works.
*Phyress: 8/10 for innate Psychosoma + starting with some amazing attacks. Other archers do catch up to her with time (and Rufus eventually passes her) but that start is hard to forget. Figure that's worth a bonus point. Maingame MVP? Sure why not.
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I know it is hard to quantify as well, but specifically RE: Phyress, I do feel the need to really hype the 90% chance of showing up on top of all the things Elfdudes are saying that. Also from memory her competition (Ehrde) is like the worst of the archers isn't he? Or one of the worst
That shit is kind of dumb and so very very valuable in game.
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I WAS THE 10%! FUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOU, VP2!!
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So was I Ciatos. So was I.
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Actually, Ehrde isn't so bad. He starts with Flame Shot (pretty much THE ur-attack for Archers), IIRC, but he has no Psychosoma, which makes learning it less intuitive. You still should get the skill party-wide somewhere around C4 at the latest, though.
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It's interesting because while Phyress is clearly the best Einherjar archer, that 10% chance leads you with still a very competent Archer for the reasons Snow laid out. He's worse, make no mistake, but arguably not worse enough to bother resetting, since he gets the important things, and you do get Psychosoma eventually anyway, so her notable advantages are short term (though arguably long standing enough that it's a big deal.)
Mind you, even with Psychosoma on Erhde, Phyress is still better, particularly because she gets Flare Blast which I believe Erhde does not, so she has better twink potential due to getting more out of Fire Boosting Seal Stone and having 3 good magic attacks instead of just 2 (both get Poison Shot I believe or whatever the Earth Elemental + Poison status one was called.)
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You should all post ratings! :)
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You should all post ratings! :)
You don't have to tell me twice!
(though seriously, I purposely wait til later as it works as a late reminder that the update is coming soon...I should more regularly post "UPDATE HAPPENING SOON!" with my ratings granted...this does stifle discussion on my end with ratings and gives people less chance to refute anything, and I could just post a 2nd time later but LOGIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS! I DON'T CARE IF TotA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS EITHER!)
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Alicia: 7.5/10. Yeah, Alicia's skillset is just great and having actual mults on Light Warriors gives her a huge leg up on the other swordsmen. I've benched her before and can actually say there were plenty of times I felt like she'd be useful even though I went full-on archer smash.
Rufus: 7/10. Rufus begins solid and eventually becomes the best archer, but for around half the chapters he isn't even your best PC available. Worse than Alicia overall works out.
Dylan: 5/10. I don't like Heavy Warriors, but he deals plenty of damage.
Lezard: 2/10. VP2 mage, eeeeeeeeeeeeew.
Arngrim: 4.5/10. Generally inferior to Dylan, not sure why bother - though he's decent enough anyway.
Leone: 4/10. Light Warrior without a skillset.
Brahms: 6/10. Nice stats, dude.
Hrist: 6/10. Nice stats, dudette.
Lenneth: 8/10. Lenneth, about your performance... it is magnificent!
Silmeria: 5.5. No point in using her, but archers can only go so bad and even the worst one is above average.
Freya: 6.5/10. Nice smash, dudette.
Archers: 7/10. Most versatile class in the game. With proper elemental twinking, they deal unsurpassed damage, have their fair share of status options and bypass immunities amazingly, and most of the archers even get menu spells for extra ripples in their versatility. They do have the problem of taking a little bit to get truly started, though - but things start looking up as soon as you land a Supreme Crossbow and just pick up from there. Not sure I care about HP in VP2 maingame, the game is -so- bad at exploiting durability woes.
Heavy Warriors: 4/10. The damage class that manages to be outdamaged by archers. That works swimmingly.
Light Warriors: 4/10. At least they get enemy combo positioning shenanigans and menu spells here and there, though the damage is frankly kinda anemic.
Mages: 2/10. Bad at damage, bad at tying up enemies and even bad at durability. The skillset's not even a compensation, since Light Warriors and Archers also get menu spells to play with.
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Alicia: 7.5/10
Rufus: 7/10
Dylan: 5/10
Lezard: 3/10
Arngrim: 4.5/10
Leone: 4/10
Archers: 7/10
Heavy Warriors: 4/10
Light Warriors: 4/10
Mages: 2/10
Didn't finish VP2 because difficulty curve is dumb (not overwhelming, just dumb), swamp was a stupid and the future looked pretty terrible too.
Edit - This was to say why I am not voting on Seraphic Gate stuff and only the first handful of plot characters.
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Mother 3: lazycopy strats go
Lucas: 8/10
Flint: 7/10
Duster: 5/10
Kumatora: 7/10
Salsa: 2/10
Boney: 3/10
Persona 4: random plays catchup again why didn't i do this like a month ago i blame gen2
Souji Seta: does anything, eventually does anything while being the best, does have some growing pains though. 9/10
Yosuke Hanamura: it's like the game went out of its way to make him useful. 8/10
Chie Satonaka: mt physicals are alright and i guess she can make the big numbers pop out of something's head late but could you not have stretches where you're being outsped by yukiko kthx. 5/10
Yukiko Amagi: oh hey battery healing in a game like this. also not totally frail and not inept at damage unlike some people i could name. 8/10
Kanji Tatsumi: slow st and game design not really makin' me care about his durability awww yeah. i guess he can do the make big numbers pop out thing but who cares p4 doesn't do leaked exp and lol to his randombusting, lemme use someone who doesn't fail at it and can still contribute against bosses instead. 4/10.
Teddie: i guess he picks up mediarama/diarahan faster than yukiko does but in practice i didn't really care that much. buffs are cool but the plot-tied slink/bad weakness means in practice i waffle between him and chie for #4. 5/10
Naoto Shirogane: gets outdone by narukami at her niche from basically the moment she joins with virtually no effort and then makes up for it by being bad at damage and durability, gj girl. but but sp conversation yeah that isn't worth sandbagging another pc over when the fox exists. 3/10
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I ran a mixed comp on general principles at almost all times in VP2 because that seemed more fun. (Okay I did shelve mages for the final chapter, sure, since the game throws tons of actual characters at you by then.) Also I was a VP2 scrub (never messed with the attack chains, etc.) so take my rankings with a grain of salt.
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria:
Alicia: 9/10. Is in your party the entire game and therefore is the best target for devouring Einjerhar souls and getting uber stats by far. Why else did they give you so many extra characters? They'd be sent up to fight a divine war in VP1, Alicia eats their soul in VP2. and oh yeah has Heal (so other characters having Heal or not is almost totally irrelevant with a shared bar).
Rufus: 7/10 Is in your party ALMOST the entire game, so some soul devouring hype here too.
Dylan: 6/10. Lots of HP & damage.
Lezard: 4/10. Solid mage - while he's around. There are some enemies mages (or at least elemental damage) is favored for at least.
Arngrim: 6/10. See Dylan.
Leone: 3/10. Competes with Alicia for Light Warrior role so lolno.
Brahms: 7/10. Arngrim+.
Hrist: 7/10. Competes with Alicia for Light Warrior role so - wait her stats are really good now? Okay.
Lenneth: 8/10. Well the Glance Reviver isn't unique to her anymore but she's pretty broken anyway.
Silmeria: 2/10. Joins for 2 seconds with no key skills learned like Toughness then leaves. No. (Presumably competes with Rufus & Einjergar in the SG anyway, so minus another point.)
Freya: ? No VP2 Seraphic Gate.
Einjerjar: Competes with named PCs usually (except mages post-Lezard leaving) so I barely used any of 'em, I'll take the people with plot kthx. Except a Mage for C4 & some of C5, sure. Unsure how much to downrank them for this as this is a playstyle thing.
Archers: 5/10. Competes with Rufus BUT the game gives you the "run a 4 Archer party" Sealstone so sure there's some reason for them to exist.
Heavy Warriors: 3/10. Competes with Dylan / Arngrim / Brahms.
Light Warriors: 2/10. Competes with Alicia hahaha no.
Mages: 3/10. Has periods where they aren't competing with Lezard except everyone says Mages are bad so sure I'll trust 'em to a degree.
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Mother 3:
Lucas: 7/10 - Decent durability, nice selection of spells for spoiling straight damage, and the only one to pick up MT Healing, not to mention MT Revival? Stat-ups for both Offense and PDEF that can stack, and eventually be applied MT? Both physical and magical shields that can reflect damage? Really good support character, though for how long he's in the game, it's a weird decision. Still, that speed kind of sinks him. I think Lucas is somewhere between beating Raquel but losing to Dekar in a footrace? I'm not sure, but it's bad. Rolling HP really saves his purpose in a game like this. Resources are... Passable, though could stand to be better.
Flint: 5/10 - Good durability, able to pass his gear on to allies as a temp (in a small window), and single-stage stat-ups? His main problem is that he's always solo, and he doesn't have much past "Hit things hard". Granted, that's a good job to have, but boring, and he's only playable for one chapter.
Duster: 7/10 - Another character with good durability, but unlike most of the others with that moniker, he has no damage. The tricks he brings to the table, however, rage wildly from "Mildly Useful" to "Holy crap this is great". Stat downs that go to stage 3, speed that doesn't fail, viable status effects that can be stacked, and you have a great support character that you want, despite no real healing or damage.
Kumatora: 8/10 - Durability woes, sure. Not as bad as Boney, but they're there. However, what she gives up pales in comparison to what she still has - she has healing of both HP and status (Alpha/Beta only, but still), status effects, stat downs, and for most of the game, your cheap damage. I think I might be understating just how good she actually is in-game - she's even slightly more important than Lucas for party composition.
Salsa: 0/10 - He's got a useless, although interesting, gimmick. Worse stats than Boney, and that's saying something. Relies entirely on allies of both flavors to actually do anything.
Boney: 2/10 - High speed!... And nothing else. All the other Mother 3 characters hate him for how fast he is, because it makes them that less viable in the DL. All this makes him good for in-game is tossing items, like the Shield Remover gained late in chapter 5 or the occasional healing item.
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Mother 3:
Lucas: 8/10. Ness minus, but still good enough to get the job done. Gate overvalues healing(MT healing especially) as always.
Flint: 5/10. Hits things, is good at hitting things, doesn't really exist during a time period where there are any skillsets to compete with, but I can't really give a prologue char above a 5.
Duster: 4/10. Uh...skillset, sure. When it works. I wanted to like duster, I really did, but his stuff is just too unreliable.
Kumatora: 7/10. Blows shit up, gets the job done. -1 compared to Lucas for durability issues.
Salsa: 1/10. Bad monkey is bad.
Boney: 2/10. Uh...better then the monkey, sure. Otherwise bad dog is also bad.
Played VP2 but don't care about it enough to rate.
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Mother 3:
Lucas: 8/10. Ness-lite, so he's your durable healer with decent physicals, and a trump-card damage move. Gets an extra point simply for carrying 45% of the team's weight.
Flint: 5/10. Technically a solo character who hits hard, but there is a brief moment he's comparable to Duster I believe...except Duster has like only one tool, so he's worse than normal. Yeah, kind of definitively average.
Duster: 4/10. So here's a character whose entire skillset is given to you from the outset...sadly the skill-set is limited and really needed to be expandable.
Kumatora: 8/10. For the most part, takes the positive aspects of Paula and Poo and marries them together, making her overall better than both. She carries another 45% of the team's weight as a result. Yes, Lucas + Kumatora are only 90% of the team's worth, that's because warm bodies and item slots have to count for SOMETHING (and...Duster does have stat downs, I guess)
Salsa: 0.5/10. When you're practically a solo PC and demonstrably awful, and need to rely on a random acting NPC to do anything, you KNOW you suck. Damage anemic, skill-set sucks, can't take hits...this is exactly how NOT to do a Monkey PC.
Boney: 2/10. Fast and has a lot of item slots due to less equipment! And his worth ends there; bad at damage, no variety whatsoever, kind of frail, a complete and total waste of a dog PC. Feels like he was intended to be a temp that somehow got stuck being a permanent PC because they were too lazy to think of a 4th legitimate character.
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria:
Alicia: 7.5/10. Heal, good attacks, and no real glaring flaws, I hesitate to say "MVP" but she's solid in her own right.
Rufus: 7/10. Only reliable 60 Energy Soul Crush PC without using Heat Up, and some good moves, but he takes some time to get going. Once he gets going, he's arguable for MVP, and easily the best archer in the aftergame due to nothing but unique oves.
Dylan: 6/10. Service-able Heavy Warrior, the main thing they have are weapons that allow them to hit extremely hard on Soul Crushes, and his normals are good enough as well. Also a nice perk of anything he learns benefits another good PC later in the game.
Lezard: 1/10. He's a Mage, and not a particularly good one. The one fight he joins with SUPER EQUIPS, he still really sucks.
Arngrim: 4/10. Hybrid of a Heavy Warrior and a Light Warrior, didn't really work out as expected. He's not bad, but not really stand out either.
Leone: 3/10. Light Warrior who misses out on some key moves like Holy Smite, on top of low health. Her only saving graces are early development for Hrist on skills, and a high hit count Soul Crush for Light Warriors.
Brahms: 6/10. Thanks to parasitic healing, keeping him at full health is easier than most so Adamantine and Paper Tiger work better on him, inheritting Dylan's skills means he won't be behind on them despite joining late, and he really lacks any sort of flaws. However, his joining late means I can only give him so high.
Hrist: 5.5/10. Kind of like Brahms, only prepping her is harder because Leone sucks while Dylan does not, and she's a temp in the main game and misses out the early parts of the SG. Once she gets her good stuff, she's quite good, and she's got one of the best weapons in the SG through Gungnir, which on top of being gotten early, you can get multiple of too boot allowing for that 300% Attack seal stone to be used with her. Still, limited usage means I can only give her so high, alas. Unique weapon allows for flexibility in usage too since she never competes for stuff unlike...
Lenneth: 5.5/10. This character here! On paper, she's better than Hrist, but a number of minor little flaws like no Leone skill thing, competes for weapons, Levantine gotten notably later than Gungnir, etc. means I give her the same.
Silmeria: 2/10. So what we have is a character who joins late, with no skills learned, and doesn't have any real unique features whatsoever other than being able to equip a select few weapons (like Rangrid's Blade), which don't amount for much. Worse yet, she competes with the STRONGEST CLASS OF EINHERJAR BY FAR. They really dropped the ball on this character.
Freya: 5/10. Like the Valkyrie, but gotten later with limited skills, IIRC. She's by no means bad and definitely good enough to justify a party slot, but "late in SG" only goes so far for me. I was tempted to DNR her until I realized I gave Hrist and Lenneth legitimate scores based on that partially.
Archers: 7/10. The best Einherjar Class, easily. They have everything you could want, and in effect, are your best source of magic damage before the SG's Levantine (and maybe Gungnir.)
Heavy Warriors: 5/10. The HP is nice, and the Soul Crush damage they can dish is great too, but that's really all they have.
Light Warriors: 4/10. Honestly, their ability to build up combos never really found useful to me. They compete with Alicia quite directly and she alone is enough to fill that niche, where as Heavy Warriors have an entire stretch where you don't have Dylan, and Archers compare laterally to Rufus, so using both makes a lot of sense.
Mages: 2/10. The only thing they have going for them is those that learn Tidal Wave and Maleficent Harm can get 60 Energy on a Soul Crush which is a feat in this game, meaning they can...fill that slot when you lose Rufus briefly if you want to one round things and rely on Soul Crushes? I guess they have some menu spells too. Yeah, I'm reaching and I could be argued to dock them another point, Mages suck this game.
Write-Ins!
Phyress: 8/10. Joins stupidly good out of the gate thanks to Flame Shot and Psychosoma; she stops being stand out after a point due to most archers being capable of what she has, but she's easily the best short-term archer and definitely a good one long term.
Valkyrie: 4/10. On paper, she should be really good, but she's behind on her attacks and gotten at the VERY END OF THE SERAPHIC GATE. Also, she competes directly with Lenneth for weapons in the SG and Lenneth is overall better due to relying on only one element, thus doesn't need to use two seal stones to boost herself. Arguably games best Mage, but probably better off going with Rufus there.
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Updating tonight at some point. With what? NOT TELLING! Mostly because you're going to find out in a few hours anyway and I don't think the anticipation is really killing anyone.
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Run Bravely Default next!
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I'm purposely holding off on BD because "Too new." I'd rather leave actual time between a game release and the in-game rankings of it. This is not something you'll argue me out of either.
Anyway, ratings!
Mother 3:
Average STDEVA
Lucas 7.80 0.45
Flint 5.80 1.10
Duster 5.00 1.22
Kumatora 7.40 0.55
Salsa 1.10 0.89
Boney 2.40 0.55
Standard Deviation of Whole Cast: 2.69
Valkyrie Profile 2:
Average STDEVA
Alicia 7.80 0.67
Rufus 7.00 0.00
Dylan 5.60 0.55
Lezard 2.30 1.10
Arngrim 4.80 0.76
Leone 3.60 0.55
Brahms N/A(6.38) N/A(0.48)
Hrist N/A (6.13) N/A (0.63)
Lenneth N/A(7.38) N/A(1.25)
Silmeria N/A(3.63) N/A(1.89)
Freya N/A(5.75) N/A(3.38)
Archers 6.60 0.89
Heavy Warriors 4.30 0.97
Light Warriors 3.60 0.89
Mages 2.30 0.45
Standard Deviation of Eligible Cast: 4.79
NEXT GAME! This one was requested 2 weeks ago, and brought to my attention of "Huh, we haven't done that yet? Ok, fixing that!"
Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph:
Argilla:
Gale:
Roland:
Cielo:
Sera:
Heat:
Seraph:
Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories:
Adell:
Rozalin:
Tink:
Hanako:
Taro:
Yukimaru:
Etna:
Like in VP2, if you want to rate specific generics, feel free to write them in; there's too many to realistically do otherwise.
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Disgaea 2:
It's been quite a while since I played this, so going from memory of my last playthrough. Ratings will be a little fuzzy. You forgot D2!Etna, by the way, Meeple.
Adell: 7/10 or so. Competent enough Disgaea human and fists are pretty good in D2. As I recall he had pretty good specials too. The evility is nice when it kicks in.
Rozalin: 6/10? Probably the best gunner in D2, but guns were only kind of 'eh' in D2 as I recall. Definitely used her though, the evility is helpful.
Tink: 5/10? I guess he's okay if you flank him with female generics, I didn't bother but he looks okay on paper and the move is impressive.
Hanako: 3/10, Disgaea caster monster who doesn't learn spells innately. Shame, really, the skillset is nice but actually getting her levels is :flush:. Not a 1 because her physical damage is at least vaguely non-fail (but nothing special and she's stuck with basic physical for a long time). I guess she can tank monsters with her evility? Meh.
Taro: 6/10. What's this? He has better buffs than his sister, an innate heal, and better damage (albeit still late)? Sure, I actually got some use out of him.
Yukimaru: 7/10. Swords are awesome, I'd almost say she'd be better than Adell if she weren't so late relatively, zam.
Etna: 6.5/10. Basically her D1 self, but D2 spears are better.
And one more write-in, for the PSP version where he has his own storyline (the other characters in it are all just "Special Generics" and not interesting):
Axel: 8/10. Basically a better Adell.
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Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph: 8/10. Same deal as DDS1. I probably consider Serph and Seraph to be pretty much sides to a coin in a sense to boot, so I expect to repeat this score.
Argilla: 6/10. Still benefits from the first game's build, but she leaves the party for a goddamned long time and rejoins way too underlevelled to be useful by the end. Still, while you have her, she's good.
Gale: 5/10. Stays in your party for pretty much the longest time along with Cielo, but losing 3rd-best magic kinda sucks.
Roland: 3/10. Eeeeeeeeeeeew, Heat minus.
Cielo: 5.5/10. Well, having -actual- Mag is cool, and being around the longest is cool for the endgame. Weaknesses still suck, though.
Sera: 7.5/10. Benefits from a proper Serph build and her very own bases translate well to DDS in general.
Heat: DNR. No.
Seraph: 8/10. We all know the drill. Objectively better than both Serph and Sera, but effectively works as an evolution of them.
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Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories:
Adell: 7.5/10. Always pulls his weight, even if he never truly excels. A fine main.
Rozalin: 5/10. Guns are mediocre and her specials don't really make up for it. She's not bad, just not great.
Tink: 2/10. Has utility with his movement speed and not much else.
Hanako: 2/10. Early Disgaea caster. You know the problems here.
Taro: 4/10. Didn't get much out of him.
Yukimaru: Meh/10. Don't care.
Etna: 5/10. Not unusable, just a bit bland.
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Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories:
Adell: 7.5 - Better Fist-user than in any other Disgaea game? He actually dodges sometimes too, which is nice early on. Good hitboxes and his innate ability is aces for a low-grinding playthrough, which is probably what I'd assume for a 'maingame worth' rating.
Rozalin: 6 - Solid ranged attacker right out of the box with a group buff that lets you abuse team attacks with her. Wants better throw and move, but ultimately a good gunner if you decide you need one (and works well as a healer if you take some time to get her a healing spell or two).
Tink: 7 - Sucks as a fighter in all regards, but high move, flying move-type, and a geo-piercing special is undoubtably useful on key trouble maps in this game and no amount of grinding generics can replace him.
Hanako: 2 - The same cannot be said of Hanako, who have low move, can't throw, has kinda lame support skills, but sick burns against the rest of the cast?
Taro: 5 - Can be twinked to solo the game! This is a genuinely valid strategy that could actually take less time than actually levelling up 5 to 10 PCs for a team. Later Disgaeas are less forgiving of this strategy, but Dis1 and 2 are probably easier to run as a SCC than standard play.
Yukimaru: 6 - Swords are good, she has good specials, she occasionally dodges! No reason -not- to use her, but you probably already have a generic sword specialist by the time you get her so she's got more competition than Adell and Rozalin.
Etna: 6.5 - Similarly, Etna will have competition from Lancers or Axe-users (though there's not really a dedicated Axe-using class in Dis2, so Etna's high stat growth and passive prinny bonuses if you like using the little guys might make her a better candidate than most for this). Throw an Axe and a ton of glasses on her for big numbers. Generics could certainly keep up, but she has better move and similar throw and higher accuracy than most of the Axe-using classes (which is to say... Fighter, Samurai, and Heavy Knight. And Heavy Knights really only exist as throw-bots). Chaos Impact is just solid reliable damage in any Disgaea game still.
Axel: 7.5 - Aftergame-only but is basically Adell+!
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Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph: 8.5/10. It's still Serph, he's still awesome, but he does miss a portion of the game this time.
Argilla: 7/10. Yeah, more or less the same as before.
Gale: 6.5/10. Same as DDS1, but a little better simply because of having the most party time in the game, thus giving him better skillset and such.
Roland: 3/10. Is basically Heat with a different element.
Cielo: 5/10. Like Gale, good availability, but worse stats. His weaknesses aren't as bad this time around at least.
Sera: 8/10. Serph-, not that this is a bad thing at all.
Heat: 5/10. The fact that he can get a no weakness set up using an equip is a nice boon, but that's about it.
Seraph: 9/10. No weakness innately, and best stats hands down, do I really have to explain much more?
Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories:
Adell: 7/10. Solid but nothing amazing.
Rozalin: 6/10. Decent, but not stand out.
Tink: 4/10. I honestly found his utility not that great and his fighting capabilities are just bad.
Hanako: 3/10. Buffs are ok, but nothing special.
Taro: 5/10. self buffs are better though!
Yukimaru: 6/10. Decent swordsmen.
Etna: 5/10. She's actually pretty good, better than Dis 1 due to Lances being better and Sexy Beam based off attack instead of Magic, just...level 1 that late is a huge penalty for me, and arguably not worth raising, so average score she gets.
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All you poor people who tried to use Etna with spears in Disgaea 1 make me sad.
Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph: 8/10. As before. However, I think DDS bats a higher average and also feels like it exploits fire weakness slightly more relatively.
Argilla: 6.5/10. Leaving for a while sucks, but she still has the magic stat.
Gale: 6/10. Always around. Cool.
Roland: 3/10. I dunno what his stat build is trying to do, but it doesn't work too well.
Cielo: 5.5/10. Status weakness still sucks, but the stats are a bit better and availability does help.
Sera: 7.5/10. Slightly worse Serph.
Heat: Pass.
Seraph: 9/10. No weaknesses? Notably better stats than anyone else thanks to fusion abuse? Well then.
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Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph: 8/10. Good and no reason not to use like 80% of the time
Argilla: 7/10. When she is around you use her. When you get her back a mix of her stats and her unique spell keep her useful. I definitely stuck with her in final dungeon. If Seraph didn't exist and you got Serp/Sera both she might drop off.
Gale: 6/10. He is good and around a lot. Unique skill in final dungeon also nice capstone to skill set since odds of you building Fire on him are low, but it lets him pinch hit Fire Weakness respectably.
Roland: 3/10. Everyone is right, that build sucks. I got use out of him in like Power Plant as an MP battery.
Cielo: 5.5/10. Like Snow said, the Mag stat is good. The weakness isn't super crippling in this game (Curse is way more prevalent than "Status" and he isn't impacted IIRC?), but it comes up often enough you want to hedge around it a bit. It comes up only a little bit more than his Lightning Resist to be fair!
Sera: 7.5/10. Yep she is Serph that is around a bit less.
Heat: 1.5/10. I don't see why DNR. He is just Roland with slightly better stats or something and never fucking around. And when he is he kind of sucks hard.
Seraph: 8/10. Same as Serph because functionally equivalent in quality with availability mixed in etcetc. By the time you get Seraph you could have just about had Serph with Resist Fire. That said, this is a point to hype how much better the balance of having Resist further up the upgrade in DDS2 rather than DDS1 is.
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All you poor people who tried to use Etna with spears in Disgaea 1 make me sad.
She can still use Axes in Dis 2 which I found good, so her other option being better still makes her better, and my second point about Sexy Beam still applies!
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Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph: 8/10
Argilla: 6/10
Gale: 7/10
Roland: 2/10
Cielo: 5/10
Sera: 8/10
Heat: 2/10
Seraph: 9/10.
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Just noting that the update is happening tomorrow instead of the usual Saturday; won't get into reasons why.
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Digital Devil Saga 2:
Serph: 8/10. Customizable stats mean a lot here.
Argilla: 6.5/10. Solid mage, but she suffers a LOT from the whole "leaves for two of the harder dungeons." Though I suppose Seraphic Lore helps a bit in the final dungeon.
Gale: 7.5/10. Generally good offense and defense stats. The main benefit to me, however, is Pyriphlegethon. It wrecks endgame like little else, and is probably needed to take out superbosses.
Roland: 3/10. Your starting skillset does NOT match your stats, and just...bleh. Also you leave at the end of the powerplant
Cielo: 7/10: Said before--status weakness is not as crippling as DDS1's, lightning resistance doesn't come up too often (though when it does, it's often against bosses), not too bad. Also once he joins, he stays for the whole game.
Sera: 7/10: Not that she's bad, but her main use is for building up Seraph's stats better.
Heat: Vritra/10.
Seraph: 9/10: No weaknesses, benefits from fusion stats, just...yeah. Reincarnation isn't as good as the other two unique skills, but I suppose it's okay.
Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories:
Adell: 7.5/10. Best fist user in the Disgaea series? Yeah, probably. Good stats where they count, and he gets some multitarget to balance out the maingame issue with fist skills. Generally servicable for the majority of the game, though he doesn't like how his skills are largely fire. Damage bonus against higher-level enemies is wonderful, though. His ultimate is wonderful damage, nevertheless.
Rozalin: 6.5/10. Generally well-rounded character? Ranged attacker out of the box, gets buffs and a pseudomagic attack as well.
Tink: 6/10--and that's admittedly just for the fact that he's generally irreplacable at going through Item World. Flying covers for a lot here.
Hanako: 2/10. You...don't really do anything.
Taro: 6.5/10. Haven't worked with him, but his defensive stats are impressive and he's probably the single most notable tank in the series?
Yukimaru: 6.5/10. Generally not bad, though late-joining isn't the best. Good swordsmen are always worth it, though, and you get her for free halfway through.
Etna: 7/10. Not going to really agree with Meeple here--she's a good bit better at what she does than in Dis1, easily gamebest Axe user, generally better Defense affinity IIRC, and levels can be made up for by a combination of equipment and a few item world runs. This isn't Fire Emblem, so she's not what I'd call a high-risk project character. Still, best axe user by far, which is worth a lot.
-
Digital Devil Saga 2:
Average STDEVA
Serph 8.08 0.20
Argilla 6.50 0.45
Gale 6.33 0.88
Roland 2.83 0.41
Cielo 5.58 0.74
Sera 7.58 0.38
Heat N/A (2.83) N.A (1.96)
Seraph 8.67 0.52
Standard Deviation of entire eligible cast: 1.95
Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories
Average STDEVA
Adell 7.30 0.27
Rozalin 5.90 0.55
Tink 4.80 1.92
Hanako 2.40 0.55
Taro 5.30 0.97
Yukimaru 6.38 2.88
Etna 6.00 0.94
Standard Deviation of whole cast: 1.56
Going with a different kind of game this time...and another Tales game because reasons!
X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault:
Heavy:
Sniper:
Support:
SHIV:
Tales of Vesperia:
Yuri:
Estelle:
Repede:
Karol:
Rita:
Judith:
Raven:
For those who played Enemy Within, feel free to write-in and such if there are differences.
-
X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault: 8/10 - Pair the best with snipers, and are really good at covering long open fields while still being able to actually deal with any nasty surprises sitting on the other end.
Heavy: 6.5/10 - They start off good, but by the end the Snipers take over their role of being the big damage, and their durability is of less use as well. However, their missiles or grenade specialties are their redeeming feature, allowing you to hit evasive but weak enemies consistantly, and removing cover when you really need it gone.
Sniper: 9.5/10 - These guys start off weak, but once they get Squad Sight they are just brutal either in focusing fire on something you need dead, or providing oodles of oversight while remaining safely out of range of counter fire.
Support: 7/10 - Can't remember too much about these guys besides smoke grenades and healing specialties. Do remember them also pairing well with Snipers when you gave them the +3 move ability which you of course give them because it's just so versatile. Also, making medkits worth using and keeping folks alive is also a hell of a niche.
SHIV: ???/10 - Never used them, so I couldn't tell you how useful they are. Maybe my next game I'll give them a try.
While some classes are clearly better than others, it is nice that no class feels useless.
-
X-Com: Enemy
Unknown Within:
Assault: So hey these guys are cool, they get to shoot things after dashing and have stuff like lightning reflexes and rapid fire and can use shotguns and stuff. 8/10
Heavy: Explosive damage isn't a bad niche to have at first, but it never really gets better, and once they're out of that they've got crappy aim and three shots between reloads instead of four, though bullet swarm giving them a bit of extra action economy means it's not as bad as it could be. As noted they don't feel useless but they do strike me as the weakest class. 5/10.
Sniper: One level of relative suck and then wtf squadsight. Even with the nerf it got in EW (can't crit on squadsight shots without headshot) it is still stupid stupid good. 9/10
Support: They move fast, have competent aim, and are the only ones that can use medkits worth a shit. It is boring but solid at what it does. 7/10.
SHIV: Abstain, never used one.
MEC Trooper: I love the punchymech but I'm not really sure how I feel about them in an objective sense, since their main weapon runs out even faster than the heavy's LMG (...) and they're not really that economical compared to the meatbag you carved up for one. They're not bad, but I'm not sure they're better than 4th out of 5. 6/10
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Tales of Vesperia:
Yuri: 7/10. Standard easy to control, good damage good lock-down Tales main.
Estelle: 7/10. Primary healer etc.
Repede: 5/10. I never quite saw how Repede's item niche was useful, and how he handles as the control character seemed like Yuri-but-weaker. Not really bad though.
Carol: 6/10. Pretty essential for Estelle's stints in la la land. Otherwise he's kinda awkward.
Rita: 8/10. Blahblahblah GETWRECKED
Judith: 4/10. Judy is incredibly hard for me to play and I suspect she's designed that way intentionally. She doesn't really have a niche as a non-control character so... yeah.
Raven: 4/10. I'm not sure what he does that isn't Carol-but-worse mostly. I guess he's a bit faster about it and has range? Eh.
-
X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault: 8/10
Heavy: 3/10
Sniper: 7.5/10
Support:6/10
SHIV: no vote.
-
Tales of Vesperia
Yuri: 7.5/10 - availability is better than Judy, but otherwise they both fill the damage and lockdown throughout the game well. The AI is better at using Yuri than Judy, so I usually controlled Judy and kept Yuri in the party anyway. It's a good niche.
Repede: 5/10 - a decent fighter but his Item dog tricks aren't as helpful as other Tales games.
Estelle: 6/10 - ToV is weird because it gives you the standard Tales healer (with a little damage though nothing that holds up long term) AND it gives you two quick healers as well. Using One Estelle is worth two Karol/Ravens, but there's some trade offs. Mainly that Estelle isn't contributing much damage if she's the main healer, her spells just take too long, though you do have another slot for a pure fighter. Conversely, taking out Estelle and using both quick healers gives you two fighters that are also really quick about topping off health and never have downtime. She gets an extra point for working well in defensive set ups that have both her and one of the two quick healers.
Rita: 9/10 - Kinda slow start but around Midgame she gets Tidal Wave and trivializes the rest of the game.
Karol: 5/10 - a good quick healer and decent damage dealer, though hard to control. You have to use another healer with him for his healing to make a difference but it's so much quicker than Estelle's. Still kinda slow and that hurts in ToV.
Raven: 5/10 - a faster, less damaging variant of Karol, he's also ranged so less likely to die or miss a big charge swing. Has magic damage as backup but with Rita it's hardly vital. Evens out.
Judith: 7/10 - better than Repede, about on par with Yuri for damage and lockdown. Destroys anything that flies, which is usually reserved for casters and archers so that's a nice niche to have more control over. You generally have to control Judy to get all you can out of her. I usually mained her when I felt that Rita was breaking the game too much. Comes in later than Yuri, so docked half a point for that. Fastest Melee PC is a good niche for dodging boss madness.
-
X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault: 8/10
Heavy: 3/10
Sniper: 7.5/10
Support:6/10
SHIV: no vote.
True facts.
Stuff that was nearly right.
Corrected facts.
Tales of Vesperia:
Yuri: 7/10. Standard easy to control, good damage good lock-down Tales main.
Estelle: 7/10. Primary healer etc.
Repede: 5/10. I never quite saw how Repede's item niche was useful, and how he handles as the control character seemed like Yuri-but-weaker. Not really bad though.
Carol: 5/10. Optional use while Estelle in space. Controls terrible and is melee so AI is dumb and walks into the fire.
Rita: 8/10. Blahblahblah GETWRECKED
Judith: 4/10. Judy is incredibly hard for me to play and I suspect she's designed that way intentionally. She doesn't really have a niche as a non-control character so... yeah.
Raven: 6/10. Does things Carol does but is ranged and stands in less fire. Just flat out better.
-
No Enemy Within.
X-COM has really, really good balance between its classes overall - some of the skill vs. skill options have one option be rather niche, but classwise, it's good. For 3/4 of the classes, you'll really notice if you're missing them. I played on Classic, which might make Sniper slightly worse and Support slightly better. (You can face 5+ enemies on Classic so huge ST damage is less important, and healbotting is unusually relevant.)
Assault: 7/10. Lightning. Reflexes. Invaluable as "the guy/gal you send charging ahead to the next cover position." Also, Close Combat Specialist later on really eases up on Chryssalid fear.
Heavy: 3/10. Clear LVP, and even it has its uses! Early on, double-attacks make them an offensive powerhouse. They really fade later on as they lose the ability to hit anything that isn't right in front of them with their heavy weapons. Additionally, the game discourages you from using explosives by rewarding you for getting intact equipment. Still, even in the lategame, sometimes there's enemy mechs or walls or cover that just needs to die, and Heavies are right at home. Definitely the only class that's "deploy 1 max if possible" though.
Sniper: 7/10. Squadsight, it's been said. The killing spree skill is p. cool too but is super-late. My score is not quite as high as others because they shine the most in easier situations where only 1-2 aliens are menacing you, and are weakest in "the VIP is trying to escape and 5+ aliens are all firing and blowing up your cover" situations.
Support: 8/10. Maybe I'm just bitter because the game absolutely refused to send me Supports no matter how many I recruited, but... a tad generic, but high movement, great healing, and great accuracy. Less damage off the good accuracy than snipers, sure, but it's more spammable and with lots of random bonuses. If for some reason you had to run a party of 6 of the same unit type, the ordering would be something like Supports > Assaults > Snipers (PISTOL SNIPERS) > Heavies.
SHIV: ? Didn't use. Theorycraftwise, they're probably at their best in Ironman play as a safety-valve. No XP means you shouldn't be using more than 1 ideally, though.
-
X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault: 7.5/10. I go back and forth on Sniper vs. Assault. Lightning Reflexes is great, the Berserker-murdering is great (can one-round them with Close Combat Specialist or whatever it is), the raw offence/durability is great.
Heavy: 3/10. For an LVP they're pretty cool. OPB grenade is nice certainly. Late they can do attack+stealth. The poor accuracy and lack of pistol backup is frustrating though, and grenades do have some downsides (you really don't want to kill with them).
Sniper: 7.5/10. Some maps really favour Squadshot being badass, and obviously the late spike with Double Tap is amazing.
Support: 6/10. They're mobile and they can heal. Solid if unspecial.
SHIV: Abstain, never used.
-
XCOM: Enemy Unknown/Within:
Assault: 7.5/10. Excellent class with no real weaknesses, but doesn't completely break the game either. Probably the class I most want two of.
Heavy: 5/10. Kind of a jeigan class honestly, still comes in handy in the lategame. I'd never want more than one in most cases, but I miss them badly when they aren't there.
Sniper: 9/10. Slow start but Squadsight and Double Tap late-game combined with Archangel Armor is absolutely fucking stupid. The slow start is the only reason they aren't a 10, and why I usually only want one of them in spite of how good they are.
Support: 7/10. The other class I like having two of, healing is damn useful in a game like this and so is their higher mobility. Unlike what you'd expect for a healer class, they don't really fail at offense notably either.
SHIV: 0/10. Practically unusable in Unknown due to being really fucking buggy. I think Within fixed most of the bugs but they're still not worth the investment IMO.
MEC Trooper: 6/10. Basically Heavy+. Usefulness varies a bit based on which class you turned into it, possibly +/- 1 point but I don't recall the precise differences.
EDIT: No scores modified, but I wanted to expand a bit on what I posted hurriedly this morning. The Heavy class definitely has a sort of jeigan feel to it; in particular, its value goes up notably in higher difficulty settings and in Ironman mode. In higher difficulty settings, they shine early game as often being the only class of OHKOing problem targets - while rockets are OPB, a well-placed rocket can quickly get you out of a bad situation, getting swarmed in Classic or higher difficulty, etc. This is most notable on Classic and higher where Frag Grenades won't OHKO Sectoids or Thin Men but rockets will, sometimes you can get into a situation where you NEED a kill to save one of your squaddies from death and your best hit rate on a regular shot is like 40%.
EDIT 2: After some thought, bumped MEC Trooper up to 6/10 instead of 5.5. It's worth noting that Supports are kind of significantly worse in Enemy Within on paper, since a properly built MEC Trooper can do a lot of what they do equally well while having better pretty much everything else, *and* all your PCs have 2 item slots instead of 1, meaning you can carry more medkits. So I suppose I should disclaim the scores above with the statement that for the original 4 classes, those scores are based on EU, not EW. I think for EW specifically I'd drop Support around a point or so because of that. Playstyle has a big effect on it, though: a defensive player will get a lot more use out of supports, while an aggressive player will get a lot more use out of heavies and MECs. Both playstyles are valid.
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X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault: 6/10. Solid for getting in there and getting something dead, as well as good for scouting.
Heavy: 4/10. They're alright but yeah, clear LVP.
Sniper: 8/10. Thanks to Pistols, their moving penalty isn't as bad as it could be. Otherwise, they blow stuff up from across the field, sometimes multiple times a turn!
Support: 5/10. Work for what they are.
SHIV: 2.5/10. You can use them for extra cover, and with Plasma they can do actual damage and such, but yeah, rarely better than just using an actual human. To their credit, they do have some minor perks. One is upgrading to Laser and Plasma upgrades ALL SHIV weapons, so you never have to worry about them being behind as opposed to specific humans, and the psychic immunity is handy in later stages for scouting purposes. These perks, however, don't come close to offsetting their downsides relative to humans.
Tales of Vesperia:
Yuri: 7/10. Tales Swordsmen, he's good at what he does. Only this game has more viable human controlled characters, so the "ease of use" fall back isn't as big a deal here.
Estelle: 7.5/10. Tales Healer, good at what she does!
Repede: 6/10. He's ok, you can abuse Gale Dog only so much though.
Carol: 4/10. Kind of meh. Not awful.
Rita: 8/10. Actually playable Tales Mage! And no, Meteor Swarm doesn't make her suddenly amazing, considering how late it is; it helps sure, but most of the game she's not using it and I'm rating her primarily on that.
Judith: 5/10. Interesting character who can be really good if used properly, but high learning curve makes me go "why not just use Yuri or Rita?"
Raven: 5.5/10. Sort of a secondary healer and mage hybrid, he's alright, but clearly worse than the primaries at this role. Would be better if he was more available during the arc you lose Estelle.
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Tales of Vesperia:
Yuri: 7.5/10. Tales Swordsman. Yuri felt more useful than most, and lategame gets the ability to do gratuitous things to bosses.
Estelle: 7.5/10. Tales Healer. Those are always good. There were a few boss fights where Estelle would be the only survivor after a boss did something nasty, and then she'd OL and restore the whole party. Engame she can be practically invincible with the defensive gimmicks.
Repede: 5/10. Not all that good. Item skills are too late to be all that awesome. Gale Dog is kind of an obscure trick late.
Karol:5/10. So dang SLOW. gets points for being an important healer during a certain stretch. Endgame he can be very durable but that's VERY endgame... last fight only.
Rita: 8/10. Her mid-lategame is completely insane. Blahblahblah "everything dies". Before that she's just a Tales Mage though.
Judith: 6/10. Good for the AI to control! Can really lock stuff down in the air.
Raven: 5/10. Useful healer for a stretch. But uh... not being there for a particular stretch prior to that weighs down a LOT on his value. Beyond the backup healing he's just not all that competent.
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X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Assault: 7.5/10 The best offense and defense on the team. Pity about the high turnover...
Heavy: 4/10 It's a pity the upgraded rockets are so obscure, Heavies could use a lategame buff.
Sniper: 7/10 When the stars are aligned, they're amazing, but the effort required is non-trivial.
Support: 4.5/10 Exactly what it says on the tin.
SHIV: 2/10 Skill-less Heavies. With benefits (immunity to mind control!) but their main asset is being better filler than rookies.
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Tales of Vesperia:
Average STDEVA
Yuri 7.20 0.27
Estelle 7.00 0.61
Repede 5.20 0.45
Karol 5.40 1.14
Rita 8.20 0.45
Judith 4.90 0.89
Raven 5.40 1.14
Standard Deviation: 1.27
X-Com: Enemy Unknown:
Average STDEVA
Assault 7.44 0.68
Heavy 4.06 1.24
Sniper 8.00 0.94
Support 6.28 1.09
SHIV N/A (1.5) N/A (1.32)
Standard Deviation: 1.74
And now to move onto something that was requested. I purposely held off on this one because I wanted to create some room between the release and this topic. Also, because DLCon is coming up next week, and I won't be around to update this anyway, and given the game in question is one people would want to talk about, and this would be a dick move to put it up when people are not going to be around, I am extending this session by another week; I feel that should be a fair compromise. IOWs, this session will run until July the 19th. This also gets me back on track on doing things on Saturday again after consecutive sessions with a day postponement...because THAT IS TOTALLY IMPORTANT NO STOP YOU SMELL WHAT DO MEAN I'M STALLING I'M NOT STALLING YOU'RE STALLING SHUT UP NAPPA!
*ahem*
Bravely Default:
Freelancer:
White Mage:
Monk:
Black Mage,:
Knight:
Thief:
Merchant:
Time Mage:
Spell Fencer:
Ranger:
Summoner:
Valkyrie:
Red Mage:
Performer:
Pirate:
Salve Maker:
Swordmaster:
Ninja:
Arcanist:
Spiritmaster:
Templar:
Dark Knight:
Vampire:
Conjurer:
NOTE: For those who played the Japanese version (and this probably doesn't apply to like anyone but still), this is based off "For the Sequel", not "Flying Fairy" since hte former is equivalent to the western release.
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Bravely Default:
Freelancer: 3/10. Mimic lategame can do some funky setups, but overall not worth much. Also +1 for Scan.
White Mage: 9/10. It is white mage. White magic is good.
Monk: 3/10. Good earlygame whacking shit class, falls off HARD midgame. Apparently has some silly abusive setups for massive damage during Bravely Second, but :whatever:
Black Mage: 5/10. Strong early, useless late. So it goes.
Knight: 9/10. Stomp spam can carry more of the game than it has any right to. And any class that benefits heavily from Two Hands is owing a nod to Knight. Strong class the whole way through.
Thief: 4/10. Uh...GSS has some uses, and it's a solid enough slugging class so long as you don't pretend daggers are any good.
Merchant: 2/10. No.
Time Mage: 3/10. Haste and slow are cool, but never felt needed. Worst mage imo.
Spell Fencer: 7/10. Spell Fencer can do some rude things to bosses, but wants Two Hands or Dual Wield to really make the most of it, giving part of its credit to Knight or Ninja. Fun class, definitely strong, but isn't quite on Knight's level.
Ranger: 5/10. Eh? Not bad, but why bother I suppose.
Summoner: 3/10. Summons have never been so sad.
Valkyrie: 7/10. Crescent Moon is your random mangler for a good chunk of the game, and it does the job well. Valk's not a fantastic class otherwise but it's also not bad at anything.
Red Mage: 6/10. If you play defensively, you can get some good setups going with Red Mage's ability to just randomly get BP. However, it falls off sharply enough lategame that I'm probably rating it too high even at a 6.
Performer: 7/10. Sets up buffs, does awesome stuff....fails to actually DO much of anything on its own but eh, can't have everything.
Pirate: 7/10. Your ST physical mangler with a side of debuffs.
Salve Maker: 8/10. Can do everything except good MT healing, if you're willing to spend the $$$. Also great for setting up assists and big damage for other classes, particularly the ability to set elemental weakness.
Swordmaster: 5/10. I want to like the counter based class, but the game just is not balanced for this kind of strategy. Sad day. Still, a solid slugger and gets bonus points for Free Lunch being part of some hilarious combos.
Ninja: 8/10. Utsusemi or however you spell that Alert clone is amazing. Also good enough at slugging if you give them a different weapon lore, but that's easy. And as always, dual wield type skill has potential for fun times.
Arcanist: ???/10. I'll be honest, no idea how to rate these guys. I didn't really use one since I wasn't about to devote someone to black magic at that stage in the game. Buffs/Healing/Physicals are the holy trinity of Bravely Default, Arcanisn't doesn't fit into that anywhere.
Spirit Master: 7/10. Needs White to really do its job, but Spirit Master has some great stuff on its own too.
Templar: 4/10. Doesn't really work as part of any big damage setups, which is what you want your physicalers to be doing at this stage in the game. Not bad, but it doesn't tank enough harder than Knight for me to care.
Dark Knight: 9/10. Damage. All the freaking damage. Having to work around the self damaging issues holds it back from a perfect 10, OH WELL.
Vampire: 7/10. A lot of fun to use, very strong if you ignore the game insisting it's supposed to be a mage class from the weapon ranks, capable of good damage both ST and MT of various elements with status attached and parasitic buffing. Held back by the lateness, the annoyance of the quest to get them, and the amount of effort it takes to get rolling. At least BD is good at telling you what monsters have the blue magic without having to hit an FAQ.
Conjurer: 1/10. Exists I guess. +1 point for streamlining grinding if you want to grind.
-
Bravely Default:
Freelancer: 3/10. Yeah, lategame funky Mimic setups can be pretty degenerate, but overall they're limited to low-end utility and a rather underwhelming build (B on everything is decent for defensive equips, but unacceptable for weaponry). They're inviable at physicals without Lore skills and their build doesn't lend naturally to magic either.
White Mage: 9/10. I have no idea how the heck are you supposed to beat Bravely Default without at least -one- dedicated healer, and White Mage does the job pretty stellarly. Early on, it even can contribute somewhat to offense against randoms with a Black Magic sub, and its support just becomes more and more valuable as time goes on. Angelic Ward is also a steal of a defensive skill for 1 SP.
Monk: 4/10. Earlygame, it's a decent offensive class and it also provides a few useful niche skills for more physical damage and weirdo utility like ignoring Default in its middle set. But, past that, it's pretty underwhelming. Its most theoretically abusive setup also rams hard into damage caps and I give nothing points for Bravely Second ever.
Black Mage: 6/10. Offensive magic is kinda gimpy in Bravely Default for the long term, but Black Mage is -the- way to go in order to make it overall viable. Earlygame, they pretty much make your damage output soar, getting into a bit of a lull until the -ga spells. In between, though, it also gets Drain and Aspir, which are -oddly- useful even when you get them, and once you land M. Defense Pierce, you have all you need to keep magic competitive forever, especially as MP issues stop mattering entirely. Status is pretty neat early, though when you can actually make it -abusive-, it just stops being relevant entirely. If C5-onwards randoms kept being as dangerous as they were in C1-4, the MT status setups would be pretty beastly.
Knight: 7/10. Over half this score goes to Two Hands alone, which is one of the best skills to slap on a physical build for the whole game given its cost. Past that, the tankiness is interesting late and Stomp is a nice earlygame physical push, but the class really rides its worth on being a fundamental stepping stone for most physical fighter trees you care to envision.
Thief:: 4.5/10. Thief is actually pretty interesting, especially in the midgame. I like Bravely Default steal, for starters, it nets you a lot of useful stuff and it's actually accurate enough to bother with (Brave/Default system also contributes for this). The A proficiency on Bows also makes them serviceable for damage for a while, which is never bad, and the Speed + skills are worth at least grabbing out for equipment economy. They do fall off pretty hard, though, and even when they're useful, that durability just sucks.
Merchant: 2/10. The money-boosting passive is -great-, but the class itself blows. Its skillset ideas just don't pan out for a useful build and they're sketchy both on offense and utility. Being based on spending money when you're in a game as stingy on your resources as BD? Go away.
Time Mage: 5/10. Uh, this class is pretty difficult to rate. Slowing bosses down is -crucial- for keeping them under control, and Haste's also powerful in that regard, but the speed manipulation niche gets stolen from them by better classes later. On the other hand, if you care about making a dedicated mage, you also probably want to build Time Magic, since it has a sweet lategame payoff (Meteor, Magic +30%, possibly one of Hasten or Slow World if you can deal with the BP micromanagement issues) and even early you probably can do worse than slapping Magic +10% on your mage. Its overall worth may not be that powerful, but it has a clear earlygame niche and ranks pretty highly in priority for magic builds worth their salt (in that sense, it works a lot like Black Mage, but BM's dominance is clearly more notable in the early game and its contributions to a longterm build are more important).
Spell Fencer: 7.5/10. Sweet synergy skillset that works with a -ton- of builds, including some of the most abusive setups in the game, saddled with a decent stat and equipment set? That's a fine loadout. I think its setup value ends up being more valuable than Knight's, along with a more versatile stat spread, so it gets half a point over it. You're unlikely to use the class itself by endgame, but you certainly want at least one fighter to carry the class until mastering, and the payoff starts pretty much on join (buffing physicals and allowing them to hit weakness, alongside picking up status options, is pretty damned good). Come to think of it, Spell Fencer -does- have a role in overshadowing Black Mage's niche due to its offensive niche.
Ranger: 5/10. While Ranger has similar issues to Thief (terrible durability, lategame obsolescence as a carrier), both its usefulness in the gamut of setups BD offers -and- its worth during the midgame go a bit beyond what Thief brings to the table. Bows are quite a potent midgame weapon and their weakness-hitting skillset's very useful for ST damage. Hawkeye and Precision are also pretty relevant for some specific physical setups involving dual-wielding, and those can rack up rather nutsily late, especially with how stingy the game is regarding multiattacks to bypass damage cap woes.
Summoner: 3/10. Just not very practical. The mults on Summons really needed to be higher to justify their cost in the earlygame and, in the lategame, where they're actually affordable, you definitely have better crowd control methods to play with. The awful stat spread also makes the class painful to stay in and its skill loadout borders on useless for an overall magic build, being pretty much made to work within Summon Magic's confines. Bad combo.
Valkyrie: 7/10. Utterly rules the midgame and opens a huge swath of flexibility for physical builds within that range. Crescent Moon's amazing (crowd control that synergizes with Spell Sword? SIGN ME IN) and the class has it as its initial skill, so we're already looking into good stuff right there. Its other options also bring interesting ideas and choices to the table, keeping the class relevant all the way to mastery... when it's entirely obsoleted by the lategame classes. Still, really hard to gloss over the sheer dominance throughout the hardest parts of the game.
Red Mage: 3/10. It's pretty decently versatile in-between C2 and C3, but it starts sucking it up even before C4. Not even getting Curada simply blows chunks.
Performer: 7.5/10. Performing is an -amazing- skillset, bringing together a dearth of badly wanted stat buffs every party ever can use which you can slap as secondaries on any utility build you want. The class itself isn't very good at resources or offense, but it can rock support like healing while you build up its skills. Entirely trivializes Time Magic for a while due to getting MT speed buffing -before- Time Mage does to boot.
Pirate: 8/10. That's a sweet-ass fighter skillset and Axes are a great weapon type to specialize in. P. Attack +20% is great gravy too, and Piracy's a good enough skillset to make its way into the high-end abusive shit you can do lategame. You definitely want -at least- one fighter mastering this class in your party, and pretty much every fighter wants to spend some time in the class for a few of its passives. Durability when the class puts its heels fully on offense needs work, as well as speed, but you can't have it all.
Salve Maker: 8/10. Salve Maker's healing is very potent, covering stuff like revival and MP restoration, and Healing Lore is really good for your dedicated healer. If you're willing to delve into its more arcane item combinations, it can also pull off strong and even -unique- buff setups (offensive options as well, but they're horrendously inefficient resource-wise). The ST emphasis on Compounding is definitely a problem, but Medicine is a good enough skillset to dump into at least one of your party members all the way to the end.
Swordmaster: 5/10. -Another- tricky class to rate. On join, Swordmaster's skillset is difficult to use (you pretty much -need- a second PC to synergize counterstances into offense via retargetting shenanigans) and the class offers rather little as a carrier. Katana make for decent weapons due to the crit rate, at least, but that's not much given the uninteresting surroundings on its stat/passives spread. ON THE OTHER HAND, once you pick up Free Lunch, Swordmaster becomes a prime carrier for a lot of otherwise resource-intensive setups, including high-end Piracy insanity with Amped Strike spam. I'll just say it gets an average score, its use depends fairly heavily on how you want a physical fighter payoff to go and getting to the point where it's actually rewarding to do so can be a somewhat tall mountain to climb.
Ninja: 6/10. Well, here's your Ranger synergy class for lategame setups. Past that... well, Utsusemi is a neat trick and Ninja's speed is quite desirable. Dual-wield and the limit breaking on attack hits also can bring up pretty potent numbers for something that requires no resources, but that's entirely ST-centered. Past that, Ninja also synergizes with Swordmaster and brings some odd reverse-engineered proactive tanking measures, which are all pretty oddball but not bad - which is nice, considering how bad it is at taking hits. Probably the best of the openly frail fighter classes (Pirate isn't precisely fragile, but it's in an odd durability lull).
Arcanist: 2.5/10. Uh status amping and boosting Black Magic just aren't great niches, considering all you need for potent spellcasting is Pierce M. Def and Magic +20%. Status Amp is cool in theory, but you're not really using status against bosses with the egregious status resist they sport and randoms just barely matter by the time Arcanist gets going. Game-best Int could make for a cute carrier, but Arcanist's own skillset has issues and only truly synergizes with Black Magic. And dear god the durability.
Spirit Master: 9/10. Makes White Magic even better, cheaper and more efficient while adding up an amazing support skillset and great passives off overall superior stats to White Mage. This class is simply -nuts-
Templar: 4.5/10. Uh I don't really like the class itself much. Holy Arts is a good skillset, but the class' stats don't really make good use of it for its offensive potential (mainly the crap speed does it in, but its strength just isn't that great either). It does have the Mind to make for a decently competent tank healer, since Templars are durable as fuck, but the MP speaks against it in return. It's like all its good points clash straight against its issues, making it a somewhat haphazard build in and out of itself. You're likely to pick up bits and pieces of its set anyway if you're trying to make a tank build anywhere, at least (Armor Lore is -great- for slapping on your healer later in the game, for instance), so it's not really a lost cause.
Dark Knight: 9/10. Oh. Oh dear. Holy -crap-, this is a lot of damage - versatile damage at that - for rather little downside. You can start setting up Dark Knight for pure evil pretty much as soon as you get the class, and it just grows more ridiculous as its skills build. Jesus christ, Dark Nebula. Jesus CHRIST, Rage. Holy fucking God, Drain Sword + Dark Arts in general. Not to mention they build -fast- because you're getting the class at C5. Dark Knight is the capstone for your physical builds overall and steamrolls the endgame like it was nothing. Being able to pull off upwards of 80k damage in a single turn (even having to deal with the Brave/Default manipulation necessary for this much offense) is just nuts.
Vampire: 5.5/10. I really can't bring myself to give this class a below average score upon reflection after analyzing the overall package. Vampire's skillset is -amazing-, with a ridiculously versatile collection of skills that are boosted by -attack- rather than magic (so, you can seriously slap the set into a fighter and go to town). The stat spread's also good and even the weaponry could be worse. But it's so difficult to really -use- the class. If you don't jump through hoops to get the class in C4, you'll be unable to catch a few of its money skills (particularly Fireball) until the very endgame, and picking up the skills themselves is a pain in the ass. Since there's a degree of overlap on what niches Vampire covers to boot, you may well just not bother and stick with simpler, yet friendlier setups. Very tricky class in the boiling of eggs.
Conjurer: 1.5/10. The design team badly overshot the worth of this package on reflection. Straight As on weaponry and unimpressive speed do -not- make for a good dual-stat carrier. The skill load on Conjurer itself is problematic to boot (were they afraid to kill Performer's niche post-mastery? Self-only buffs are a -horrible- idea for a lategame class' primary skillset), with a bunch of nudges that would be really great if they showed up about three chapters earlier than they do but are just pointless gravy by endgame. It does streamline grinding a bunch, but that's pretty much its sole actual use in practice. God damn it.
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Freelancer: 3.5/10. I will give Freelancer two things: Examine is terrific for knowing where to brave-blitz, and Mimic is a nice skill. But c'mon job you need a bit more than that.
White Mage: 8.5/10. They're not strictly essential. Toss healing-boosting passives on someone with Red and you'll be doing okay maybe... but yeah there's all that game before you get Red AND White is just better at this job.
Monk: 3/10. I guess they uh hit things or something early... they also struggle to be better than Freelancer early since you get the Ise-no-kami. That's not really a great sign.
Black Mage,: 5/10. I dunno. They're good early, then fall off pretty hard. Still they can be okay late with some builds I didn't explore, so I can't be too hard on them, and they did do the classic impressive FF mage thing in the prologue and through parts of chapter 1.
Knight: 7/10. Two Hands, Stomp, can do some mean physical tanking later. Solid job.
Thief: 3.5/10. They're there. Godspeed Strike seems pretty cool. Speed-boosting passives are cool. Not too impressed with Steal though, or their offence otherwise.
Merchant: 2/10. More Money is nice but how nice depends on playstyle, the rest of their package is pretty blah. I guess Low Leverage is good if you have more patience for the class than me.
Time Mage: 5.5/10. Haste/Slow so good for a while, then chapter 3 comes along and ruins their niche. At the same time, I've heard great things about Meteor later and Auto-Life also strikes me as nice, so sure, this score works.
Spell Fencer: 7/10. Allows you to do more cost-efficient elemental damage than black mages, stacks wonderfully with other physical builds, from elemental/status Crescent Moons to Drain Dark Knight.
Ranger: 4/10. Well they're better than Monk or Thief on offence I guess but still why bother. If you can break 9999 with Two Swords setups you'll want them but past that not too impressive.
Summoner: 3/10. :( Not... horrible at random sweeping, once you get ways to restore MP. Until then, though, yuck. And still not great at that job.
Valkyrie: 7/10. The third of the solid physical jobs which get this rank, Crescent Moon is pretty much the best thing for dealing with randoms in chapters 2 through 4. Nothing too impressive otherwise although Spirit Barrier can help you through a couple crystal guardian fights and hey full-party Jump is kinda evil if you want to roll that way. Horribly outclassed later but so good until then.
Red Mage: 2/10. Too late, too late. I felt my investing there was wasted, better to use white and black separately. They have a couple useful passives at least, but so does Merchant, so the same score works.
Performer: 8/10. Performer buffs do a lot to turn battles in your favour, and their passives connected to them are better than you'd think, too. I'll give them the edge over Pirate because (a) you get their crucial skills earlier and (b) they're more effective in fights against more than one boss. Oh yeah and drawing aggro is nice sometimes. EDIT: And somehow I forgot about their turn-granting ability which is amazing. Being able to parcel out extra turns to your healer, spiritmaster, or main damage dealer as needed is amazing.
Pirate: 7/10. The offensive debuffs, as well as Slow, are wonderful (though not quite unique to them, as Vampire exists later). Axe Lore is also good considering how BD kinda forgot that skills ignore accuracy making axes a bit OP.
Salve Maker: 5.5/10. A good way to restore MP and they provide full revival long before white mage. Also the first (albeit inferior) ridiculous healing-boosting passive. I'm not impressed with their offence though, which requires both a certain playstyle and far too much spare gil given how the brave system works, and being only the #4 defensive skillset (at best) means there's only so high they can go.
Swordmaster: 5/10. Seems like you can do some things with them by drawing fire and countering. I'd like to experiment with that more on a replay.
Ninja: 6/10. Utsusemi is great, two swords has uses although it's less broken than in some games. Not really an amazing class but still the best light-armour fighter job.
Arcanist: 4/10. This is mostly a guess. Status Amp lets you wreck bosses apparently, but otherwise they aren't appealing at all.
Spirit Master: 8.5/10. Blocks status, blocks elements. The latter being incredibly important due to some of the hardest fights in the game assigning you an elemental weakness, and Spiritmaster's answer is strictly better than, say, using Dispel four times in a row, for a variety of reasons. Oh yeah and they have one of the two amazing WM-boosting passives. Good stats too. Doing the lategame without them feels like an option only for those who hate themselves.
Templar: 4.5/10. Rampart is a solid skill. Kind of a mixed bag otherwise, I used them more than Knight because I assumed they'd be better but I was kinda mistaken there.
Dark Knight: 9.5/10. Everything about their offence is silly. 4x MT for 1 BP is nuts and needing Dark Shields or Spiritmaster to mitigate that doesn't make it less nuts. Or you can just settle for 1.5x MT for 1 BP. Or one of the few ways to easily break 9999 per BP. The HP cost is a downside but so easy to work around thanks to the Brave system, Drain spellblade, etc. Oh yeah and their stats are fine and they get a passive which strengthens dark. Dark resistance barely exists after you get it, so yeah whatever.
Vampire: 5.5/10. Rise from the Dead is pretty amazing, they have the debuff parade also seen on Pirate, and their skillset would be ridiciulous if Dark Knight didn't exist (they'd be the premier random-basher). Since Dark Knight does exist that huge sidequest chain kinda counts against the class notably to me. They're very close to being a ridiculous class - make the unlock requirements less steep, remove Dark Knight, and holy hell you have a good-stat job which is useful in every situation. As is, though... a more moderate score works.
Conjurer: 1.5/10. Sooo take what I said about Vampire except this job wouldn't be good without the accession time anyway, just "okay". Yeah they make MP less of an issue, as if Salve-Maker didn't do that three chapters ago and money hadn't started piling up lategame to make ethers less of an issue. Their skillset sucks and I have no place for a carrier with a worthless skillset, I really wanted eight useful skillsets in lategame BD hard mode. Not devoid of worth, but close.
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Played on Hard mode. Still haven't finished, but still fairly confident (super-late C7).
Freelancer: 3/10. Okay, the good: is an authentically real option on Caldisla & early C1 thanks to Ise-no-Kami, Examine & Divining Rod are useful and quick. Later on, Poison Immunity is strangely one of the best immunities (giving up an accessory to block status is painful, Victoria / Qada / Ominas exist) and I guess JP up is okay for grinding (if you already dunked 10 JLs into Freelancer). For very lategame, you can do degenerate crap with Mimic & BP-costing abilities if that's your ball of wax (it isn't mine) and can get good base stats if you grind an absolute ton (but if you grind a lot you don't need the base stats since your level will be high?). The bad: the stats & damage post Ancheim means you should never ever use this unless grinding up for those useful skills. Sigh, would be 1.5/10 if not for the skills.
White Mage: 9/10. Utterly essential. MP a bit of an issue, and they're quite constrained in Armor choice (Agnes sucked at WM for awhile, and I eventually figured out it was the Star Corset or whatever that Praline dropped not having the Mind boost), but MT healing is invaluable, and they occasionally hit air/holy weakness for okay damage. Angelic Ward is pretty rad too. Finally, while MDef doesn't come up as often as you'd think in BD, there do exist magic-heavy enemies (V&V!) and hey look great MDef + MDef skills if it's a mage boss or something.
Monk: 4/10 Very erratic. Falls off hard in C1, then gets badass staves in C3 + Acrobatics to Crescent Moon everything with, then falls off again. HP+10% is cheap and randomly handy especially vs. Qada/Profiteur, and P. Atk +10% is another cheap slot-filler. Still… not really a fan of 'em post C4.
Black Mage: 7/10 ? For C0-C4: Most enemies have an elemental weakness, and a decent number of bosses do too (crystal guardians, Heinkel, Barbarossa, Victor, Braev), and those that don't have a weakness can be given one by Withering Ripple. So a good start. However, MP becomes a serious problem fast once the L3 & L5 -aras and -agas hit, especially if you're blowing the enemies up on turn 1 with quadra actions. Very dependent on either encounter-adjustment to no-encounters on your boss run, or else having a Salve-Maker pal to top up their MP. Also, L5/L6 Black Magic is depressingly late - it wasn't until near the end of C4 I had L5. HOWEVER. If you want an attack mage, levelling BM is basically required, as it features the mighty Pierce M. Defense skill. This skill single-handedly changes C5-C8 mages from "does the same or worse damage than fighters at the cost of MP" to having excellent damage again. That said, Black Magic does kind of pale compared to Time Magic late, but does have the virtue of being ST for the team-fights and having Aspir to reload MP latefight without need for a Salve-Maker or blowing precious Elixirs.
Knight: 8/10. Very solid earlygame thanks to MPless 4x Stomp & good defense, picks up Two Hands which is great. Falls off a bit for awhile. Then gets the Two Shields ability, which is insanely busted and awesome with Chivalry or Holy Arts. The P. Def +10/30 up skills are quite useful as well when making your ubertank who shrugs off all physical-typed damage, which is a lot.
Thief: 5/10. Very fast, can Life Thief like a pro with a bow, and does more damage than Monk anyway in C1/C2. Also powers up Salve-Maker with steals if you care (I don't). Godspeed Strike is more a DL thing, in-game you can be setting up buffs & debuffs such that vanilla damage does better, but is okay if you don't have that for some reason. Anyway, falls off lategame where not equipping a shield = quick ticket to the afterlife, and Life Thief is less reliable than Utsusemi for light-armor not-dying purposes.
Merchant: 2/10. More Money grinding and that's it. I guess if you refuse to turn off encounters in C5-C8 you'll have enough spare cash to actually use Commerce in C8?
Time Mage: 8/10. Black Mage trading elemental variety for more damage. I don't really care about Haste/Slow, but Gaia Gear Quaga wrecks dudes in C3, and is respectable in C4/C5. Late C5+ they get the mighty Meteor which is an easy 9999 damage with Pierce M. Def stolen from BM, notably better than Dark (multihits & Pierce M. Def synergize well). Meteor doesn't even require equipping Gaia Gear, too. Has some cheap status for randoms if you care like BM (Stop) and Time Slip was nice for scarier random ambushes in C2-C3. Warning: If the off-class Pierce M. Def didn't exist, lategame TM usability would collapse, so make of that what you will.
Spell Fencer: 6/10. Pretty great for C1-C4 - MP-efficient random busting, hits all the boss elemental weakness, etc. No particularly compelling passive skills, though, and falls off a bit in C4-C8 where it's competing with the likes of Pirate & Vampire.
Ranger: 6/10. Hits All The Weaknesses, decent speed, Targeting for bosses that use Default. Lategame gets super physicals off that skill. Lategame bow use denies a Shield which is a tad YOLO though.
Summoner: 4/10? Very hard to rate. Summoner made tough randoms who were extremely likely to generate wipes for my underleveled team in C3-C4 doable, a feat not accomplishable by any other class at the time. Flip side, if you do the mass-Summoning Brave surge for 3 battles you're out of MP. And if you turn off encounters to save MP, why do you care about the MT-focus of Summoner anyway? Anyway, they have the best & safest skillset for random-grinding, especially near an inn, so there's always that.
Valkyrie: 4/10. Crescent Moon is good. Everything else is averageish at best. If you're fighting through a ton of C3 randoms and then facing a boss they're a weaker Summoner that drains MP less, I suppose.
Red Mage: 5/10? They're pretty good in C3 if you train 'em up, and they're acceptable in C4 and beyond as carriers for another magic skillset off their good speed & defensive stats - MT Cura healing is sorta okay for awhile, Dispel is randomly handy, and then set Time Magic or Black Magic for real offense. Skills pretty neat too, the "get BP when statused" is quite helpful & cheap for some bosses. That said, you'll eventually hit the point where their skillset is almost worthless outside of Dispel & Raise, which is unfortunate.
Performer: 7/10. Solid MT buffs. Especially before Pierce M. Def arrives and physical damage is the best in late C3 + C4, Love Power seriously speeds up bosses, and I've Got Your Back has its place too. MP is a bit of an issue when Singing is used by non-Performers, and C7+ fights put you under so much pressure that it can be hard to get the turns to use the buffs if you slap Singing on your healer, but it's still doable.
Pirate: 8/10. Amazing, obsoletes many other fighty classes. Defang & Skull Bash are both fantastic, P. Def & Speed debuffing have their place too, and axes + Axe Lore are great, especially if you grab a Fox Tail. Even good for random-grinding-near-inn thanks to Double Damage.
Salve Maker: 5/10. I don't care about the class at all or any of the passives but Medication is a decent skill to set as a secondary strictly for Compounding. I only know two mixes: Quarter Elixir & Resurrection, but those are two pretty good ones to have - they let you unload MP with impunity, and Arise from WM is insanely-MP expensive, so sometimes having ST full-resurrection MPless is handy. If you're hardcore enough to fight the boss after actually fighting randoms, Medication pretty handy for in-dungeon MP restoration, too.
Swordmaster: 3/10. You can set up goofy counter-strats with the aggro-raising accessory, but if we're going down that road, I'd rather use Ninja's Transience instead, honestly. The Ninja can do relevant other things like Default if they aren't targeted and Utsusemi hangs around, while the SM is forced to spam their reactions. The SM strategy gets real chancy in the C7 onward teamfights, too, where there's tons of mixed damage from multiple targets meaning that the odds of just wasting your turn and dying soar. Super lategame, you can do some dumb things with the Freelancer/Swordmaster Prayer/Squeaky Wheel/Mimic/Slow World combo but lalala don't care.
Saving grace is using katanas, which have probably the best ultimate in the game in +150% Speed as long as the music plays. I never bothered with TM/Performer speed buffs because they don't last long enough and fall off on death, but katana ults can potentially last a nice long time with chaining and don't care about death. Oh and do a bunch of damage for free too, that's nice. Of course DK uses Katanas too...
Ninja: 6/10. Utsusemi potentially cheeses some boss fights and covers for the atrocious durability, and dual-Assassin Dagger attacks is funny vs. randoms for awhile, and the speed is obviously good. Still, not overly impressed with the class itself, even if Ninjutsu is a solid secondary to slap on someone else. EDIT: And Kairai is sadly good, if boring.
Arcanist: 3/10. All the BP-related abilities are too "fair" and affect both sides. All the BM-improving passives are worse than Pierce M. Def which already eats 3 slots, although Save BM MP is good for the other 2 slots. Oh and their durability is comparable to wet cardboard. Sacrifice is a good buff at least, and Absorb M. Damage is sometimes useful? Don't really care about Status Amp, if I desperately want to status out bosses I'll use debuffing specials.
Spiritmaster: 8/10. Holy One allows you to get away with Curada for your healer saving a bunch of MP, the stats are pretty decent, and the skillset is quite useful vs. some of the nastiest bosses in the game - Alternis, the 6 Dragons, refights of Victoria, Finale Bugzilla. A silly MP-BP trick if you're running Mimic and/or Compounding, too.
Templar: 7/10. Champion tank like Knight. Giant Slayer quite decent damage against bosses, too (1.5), and Radiant Blast smashes up Defaulting bosses (at great MP cost). Also being the slowest class in the game can weirdly be a benefit, as there are some things you explicitly want to go last, like Phoenix Down revival or Desperation. Later on turns into a Desperation machine, especially with two-shields from Knight. Armor Lore is handy for other classes. EDIT: Oh yeah, Default Guard is completely awesome as well.
Dark Knight: 8.5/10. If you want to do Dark Nebula spam it's greedy in that it requires you to trade-down to Dark Shields, which require stealing to have enough of them early, and then encourages you to lamely have your entire attack force be Dark Knights. And Dark Nebula is kinda late in the skill chain. And it's possible to have hilarious failure after weakening your own team if the initiative goes the wrong way. And despite being great damage, it's still usually worse than 9999 damage Meteors. But really I'm just making excuses for the manifest strengths everyone else already mentioned: DK damage chews through everything with MT and obsoletes the damage-focused physical classes if you want, leaving only the debuff niche of Pirate & Vamp and the tanking niche of Knight & Templar.
Vampire: 7/10. They're a late-gained elemental Pirate variant that chews through MP faster, but I'm not really convinced that they're better than Pirate, at least not without some hard-to-get Genomes (Fireball, White Wind). Even if they were exactly as good as Pirate, the extra work in acquiring the Genomes would count a bit against 'em, and the elemental damage is a bit less amazing lategame. Light Armor use is also unfortunate. That said, if you care, they do mock randoms forever with Battle Thirst, or even Praline's summoned goons.
Note: I don't particularly hold the long sidequest to access Vamps & Conjurers against them, since you're getting plot & new enemies to keep things interesting; it's not like the Veldt where you fight enemies you've already seen for no reward.
Conjurer: 2/10. Ew self-only buffs. They should have risked slightly obsoleting Performer and/or Summoner by either attaching damage to 'em, or else making them MT and MP-expensive. Theoretically has worth as a carrier off good speed & stats, but Spiritmaster & Vampire do the same thing for a mage carrier and fighter carrier respectively, and they have skillsets worth a damn. Evades a 1/10 because if you're grinding in a place not near an inn Conjurer passive is great (and the Fire Temple has among the best gold per encounter in the game), and Steady MP Recovery might have value for long boss fights, and Save SM MP is good if you're running a Summoner. Marginal, but it's something vaguely relevant, and I usually save 1/10 for "totally useless and/or active liability." (EDIT: And damnit it seems teh summons have rare use after all, mostly just Hresvelger.) LVP.
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Bravely Default:
Freelancer: 4/10. Examine justifies this, I think.
White Mage: 8/10. No offense but you need healing very badly in this game.
Monk: 4/10. Good early and late, but so bad for 80% of the game.
Black Mage: 4/10. Good early yeah.
Knight: 8/10. Stomp will carry you through on randoms till Dark Knight and they get other awesome things like two hands.
Thief: 5/10. They can use Bows well which is kind of a big deal (bows are good early on) and they get a nice move in godspeed strike. Fall off later but so it goes.
Merchant: 1/10. Bad stats and a largely useless looking skillset. Money was tight in BD, but not tight enough to justify using a really bad class just for cash.
Time Mage: NA, didn't really use much. Buffing outside of Performer sucked.
Spell Fencer: 6.5/10. Solid but not amazing.They do mesh well with Dark Knight.
Ranger: 4/10. Awesome when bows are strong early, then kind of fall off.
Summoner: 2/10. Yuck.
Valkyrie: 3/10. Found the class to be really unremarkable.
Red Mage: 3/10. Don't like an all around buld in this game.
Performer: 7/10. Useful skills, class is a wasteland stat wise.
Pirate: 7.5/10. Axes destroy the universe, they have debuffing.
Salve Maker: Didn't use.
Swordmaster: 2/10. Barely used. I'm sure the counterstance stuff has value but I thought the class build was pretty shit. They're like the fifth best fighter class? Yuck.
Ninja: 5/10? Yeah, didn't find them to be that remarkable in this game.
Arcanist: 2/10. Awful.
Spiritmaster: 9/10. Makes White Magic broken, also the defensive game which is very useful for late bosses.
Templar: 4/10. Very badly overshadowed by Pirate and later Dark Knight.
Dark Knight: 10/10. They obsolete almost every damage class in the game to an insane degree.
Vampire: 1/10. Requires a long ass fucking side quest for a massively inferior to Dark Knight class. Fuck off.
Conjurer: 0/10. See Vampire but with much more hate.
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Freelancer: 2/10. horrific except for ass-end lategame combos which basically only use one skill from it and the effect can be duplicated by other combos.
White Mage: 9/10. Lacks offense to get it to 10/10 but is one of the major lynchpins of the game. #2 class.
Monk: 3.5/10. Does pretty solid early but past that, idgaf
Black Mage: 4.5/10. Can be lategame viable but requires a large amount of focus and more combos reward phys tricks than mag tricks.
Knight: 7.5/10. 2.5 of this is from Two Hands alone. The class is competent but not stellar beyond that.
Thief: 5/10. Good game for stealing, decent offensive utility early but fades fast thanks to Ranger punting its offensive role out.
Merchant: 2/10. All two points for More Money.
Time Mage: 7/10. Queen of the offensive and status mages, and its passives are kinda neat to gamebreaking when used right
Spell Fencer: 5/10. I never wound up fully sold on these, despite Sleep Sword being an earlygame mainstay on my low-offense team.
Ranger: 7.5/10. One of the two major offense classes for me, actually. Hawkeye is glorious for Pirates, it's a great ST buster, bows are awesome for early offense... this carried me through a lot of the game in some form or another.
Summoner: 2/10. I don't respect its MT clearing...
Valkyrie: 7.5/10. Because this exists. Spears being the other excellent weapon, this class also does excellent early. Ranger/(Pirate or Thief) and Valkyrie/Knight were the two major melee bruisers I had for most of the game.
Red Mage: 1.5/10. I... can't bring myself to give this class any real credit outside of a goofy poison for BP technique, which relies on a late-end passive. The skillset by midgame has less utility than Freelancer.
Performer: 7/10. Your go-to for MT buffing. Obsoletes basically any other stat buff class.
Pirate: 7.5/10. Great skillset, good weapon choices if a bit reliant on Ranger to buoy them.
Salve Maker: 8.5/10. Worse WM but with excellent, if tedious, offense. WM definitely wins due to being better at the vital role, but Salve Maker is my #4 class in the game, I think.
Swordmaster: 3/10. Low respect for the class due to needing to combo heavily into it for relatively low output.
Ninja: 6/10. Utsusemi spoils a fair amount of the game, and at absolute endgame it gets fun setups... but 90% of its functional time in game is just for Utsusemi and nothing else.
Arcanist: 4/10. Basically BM with half a point docked for being late to the party
Spiritmaster: 9.5/10. Spiritmaster is one of the sanest ways to tell a great deal of the game to go bend itself over a pole. It is WM's counterpart, but unlike WM it has no competition for its role - it is the sanest way to do almost anything in its bag of tricks. AND it buffs WM. Yeah.
Templar: 4/10. Rampart could be really neat but uh Spiritmaster. Still, it's #3 of the ways to do the dragons...
Dark Knight: 9/10. It comes late but it carries its weight easily with its brutal damage - and Rage is simply one of the best ways to make things cry the game possesses, especially when comboed correctly. (Spell Fencer doesn't get a bonus from enabling this class since you can pick up Drain Blade from an item...)
Vampire: 7/10. This class could honestly, for me, compete with Dark Knight in raw utility thanks to Fireball and stat drains and less setup-reliant MT offense....... but while I don't hold the Castle against Vampire, I do hold the Dragon Copy Festival against the class. This being said, I ran this class on three people as soon as I got it and didn't regret it one damn bit. It is what Conjurer and Freelancer were hoping to be because it realizes that the game is all about physical offense and acts as a jack of all trades off that.
Conjurer: 3/10 and all three points of this are solely for the "nuke randoms get EXP/gold" skill.
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I played Hard Mode.
Bravely Default:
Freelancer: 2/10. Scan isn't really useful enough to justify the garbage otherwise. A small amount of credit for the early Ise-no-Kami stuff.
White Mage: 9.5/10. Best class in the game in my opinion, and made the game playable on Hard Mode. There is no point in the game that they were not vital.
Monk: 3/10. Crap after the first chapter. Can also uses Staves to combo with Valkyrie I guess, which elevates them above Freelancer.
Black Mage: 4/10. Similar to Monk but takes a while longer to fall into the infinite void of shittiness. Pierce MDEF makes them decent late?
Knight: 8/10. Two Hands is fucking amazing and Stomp is cool. Sounds like they get good late as well.
Thief: 2.5/10. Has some advantages over Monk but is quite fragile. The drain gets bad pretty damn fast, too.
Merchant: 3/10. Big pimpin' spending Gs
Time Mage: 6/10. Weird class, but in HM the speed manipulation is definitely quite useful, particularly when you'd prefer your other classes such as Pirate doing other things.
Spell Fencer: 8/10. Combos so well with Valkyrie (sleep everyone, elemental the shit out of everyone) and later is just great for a high damage class. DK has Drain to fuel its power with HP, and the other classes can smack the shit out of things with elements.
Ranger: 4/10. Really needed a human weakness. Bows are decent but make your defense shithouse.
Summoner: 3.5/10. Obsoleted so hard by Valk/Spell Fencer combo. Way too costly. Occasionally useful in all points of the game for annoying enemy blitzing, though, if you hate your MP that much.
Valkyrie: 7.5/10. Great midgame, falls off later.
Red Mage: 3.5/10. Mostly points for their cool passives and the versatility can be kinda useful in Chapter 3? They can run physicals okay as well then. They join too late though.
Performer: 8.5/10. turn shift + MT defense buffing + MT attack buffing + MT speed buffing = who gives a shit about their stats
Pirate: 8/10. Axes are just silly lategame, and their debuffs are 100% acc and can really cripple enemies. HM probably makes them better.
Salve Maker: 7/10. MP healing for godlike. Sounds like they get some neat damage options too that I didn't get.
Swordmaster: 3.5/10. Depressingly underwhelming, although I guess you could set up some Cover strats. Never got it going in practice though.
Ninja: 6/10. Utsusemi + counter dodge + the RM BP ability = silly as fuck. Offense is a little lacking though, weirdly.
Arcanist: 3/10. Sounds like you can use them for status hax if you get them going, but blah to their skillset and stats.
Spiritmaster: 9/10. Essential for lategame.
Templar: 5/10. Rampart was a pretty big part of my strategies lategame. Otherwise blah. Lowish damage and their defense adding ability is less cool than Knight's.
Dark Knight: 9.5/10. Boring degenerate overpowered class.
Vampire: 6/10. Is straight up worse than DK and joins at best a dungeon before DK but is neat anyway.
Conjurer: 1/10. What the fuck?
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Bravely Default:
Freelancer: 2/10. Scan isn't really useful enough to justify the garbage otherwise. A small amount of credit for the early Ise-no-Kami stuff.
White Mage: 9.5/10. Best class in the game in my opinion, and made the game playable on Hard Mode. There is no point in the game that they were not vital.
Monk: 3/10. Crap after the first chapter. Can also uses Staves to combo with Valkyrie I guess, which elevates them above Freelancer.
Black Mage: 4/10. Similar to Monk but takes a while longer to fall into the infinite void of shittiness. Pierce MDEF makes them decent late?
Knight: 8/10. Two Hands is fucking amazing and Stomp is cool. Sounds like they get good late as well.
Thief: 2.5/10. Has some advantages over Monk but is quite fragile. The drain gets bad pretty damn fast, too.
Merchant: 3/10. Big pimpin' spending Gs
Time Mage: 6/10. Weird class, but in HM the speed manipulation is definitely quite useful, particularly when you'd prefer your other classes such as Pirate doing other things.
Spell Fencer: 8/10. Combos so well with Valkyrie (sleep everyone, elemental the shit out of everyone) and later is just great for a high damage class. DK has Drain to fuel its power with HP, and the other classes can smack the shit out of things with elements.
Ranger: 4/10. Really needed a human weakness. Bows are decent but make your defense shithouse.
Summoner: 3.5/10. Obsoleted so hard by Valk/Spell Fencer combo. Way too costly. Occasionally useful in all points of the game for annoying enemy blitzing, though, if you hate your MP that much.
Valkyrie: 7.5/10. Great midgame, falls off later.
Red Mage: 3.5/10. Mostly points for their cool passives and the versatility can be kinda useful in Chapter 3? They can run physicals okay as well then. They join too late though.
Performer: 8.5/10. turn shift + MT defense buffing + MT attack buffing + MT speed buffing = who gives a shit about their stats
Pirate: 8/10. Axes are just silly lategame, and their debuffs are 100% acc and can really cripple enemies. HM probably makes them better.
Salve Maker: 7/10. MP healing for godlike. Sounds like they get some neat damage options too that I didn't get.
Swordmaster: 3.5/10. Depressingly underwhelming, although I guess you could set up some Cover strats. Never got it going in practice though.
Ninja: 6/10. Utsusemi + counter dodge + the RM BP ability = silly as fuck. Offense is a little lacking though, weirdly.
Arcanist: 3/10. Sounds like you can use them for status hax if you get them going, but blah to their skillset and stats.
Spiritmaster: 9/10. Essential for lategame.
Templar: 5/10. Rampart was a pretty big part of my strategies lategame. Otherwise blah. Lowish damage and their defense adding ability is less cool than Knight's.
Dark Knight: 9.5/10. Boring degenerate overpowered class.
Vampire: 6/10. Is straight up worse than DK and joins at best a dungeon before DK but is neat anyway.
Conjurer: 1/10. What the fuck?
Was waiting for this. Accurate.
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Freelancer: 3.5/10. Examine and the two dungeon skills are technically luxuries, but pretty damned nice ones for me. Game has enough superbosses for ubersetups that practically require grinding to be worth something, so Mimic's worth a bit of credit as well.
White Mage: 9.5/10. Class itself is only decent, but White Magic is the most valuable skillset for pretty much the entire game.
Monk: 5/10. Bastet Claws has a brief phase of dominance if you build up Norende, then they fall off hard until you get a Diamond Staff in C3. I also got a decent amont of mileage out of Hidden Dragon/Qigong Wave/Pressure Point as a secondary skillset vs bosses for a good long while, although they're not amazing enough to be irreplacable like some other skills. Completely obsolete when you unlock Vampire/Dark Knight, obviously.
Black Mage: Abstain; I didn't use attack magic seriously, so I don't feel qualified to rank any of the attack magic classes.
Knight: 8/10. Two-Handed is awesome and almost free, I ended up grabbing it on three people on Normal difficulty. Knight skills are indespensible for the best tank setups lategame when tanking can really matter.
Thief: 3/10. If you buy an Angel Bow from Norende, that'll carry their offense enough to build up JLvls for extra hits later on to salvage their offense. Otherwise... well, the speed-boosting passives are nice, and Life Drain is solid, but they don't have much else. Steal didn't impress me much aside from getting extra Dark Shields for Dark Nebula spam lategame.
Merchant: 1.5/10. I had a lot of money sinks throughout the game thanks to Norende, but never reached a point where I had to upgrade everything or die DQ-style, which is to say More Money never felt worth changing a PC over to an otherwise useless class.
Time Mage: Abstain.
Spell Fencer: 7.5/10. Sword Magic goes well with pretty much every physical setup, but it never felt outright essential for anything.
Ranger: 5/10. The class works but nothing about it really stood out enough to impress me.
Summoner: Abstain.
Valkyrie: 7/10. Crescent Moon is great up until Vampire/DK unlock, and... that's about it. Pretty awesome niche to have for about two and a half chapters, though!
Red Mage: 2.5/10. Really needed to be available earlier, by C3 specialization is starting to really matter for effectiveness. Mainly gets points for contributing Turn Tables to the Utsusemi death machine.
Performer: 8/10 sounds about right? It's clearly good, but I didn't fully take advantage of all its options until late first time around.
Pirate: 8.5/10. Axes are OP in general, but Fox Tail really makes things ridiculous for lategame if you can get it. This means that almost every physical attack wants Axe Lore eventually, and the skillset's pretty good as well.
Salve Maker: 6/10. Not inclined to give it serious offensive credit in-game for various reasons, but Healing Lore is great before you get Holy One, the MP healing options are good, revival options re good, elemental banes are great for boss fights. Feels like it's always going to offer useful support options at any point in the game.
Swordmaster: 2/10. Needs a Kairai-spamming ally to make good use of those counterattack skills, mediocre option vs randoms due to speed/hit count, doesn't handle MT boss fights all that well, less reliable than a 2 shields tank even when it does work out.
Ninja: 8/10. Utsusemi+Transcience+Turn Tables(+Comeback Kid if you have the space) is a pretty ridiculous package for boss fights, the vast majority of which rely on physicals in this game so you could autobattle them if you really wanted. Offense needs twinking to be effective vs randoms/group bosses, but high speed and lots of hits mean it has the tools to do so.
Arcanist: Abstain.
Spiritmaster: 8.5/10. Really neat upgrade on White Mage, tons of synergy and almost no redundancy. Held back somewhat by the need for an ally to provide BP support to make good use of some key skills. I also can't get it the same score as WM because a Spiritmaster-legal/no-WM run feels like it'd be way more painful than a WM-legal/no-Spiritmaster run.
Templar: 5.5/10. Feels like they're mainly useful if you insist on not using super-cheesy stuff like party-wide Utsusemi vs Dragons. They can get the job done, but low speed means they're never going to be amazing at it. Skills aren't as useful in or out of the class as Knight's, either. EDIT: Right, forgot Default Guard exists. That's pretty good.
Dark Knight: 9/10. I don't like the way Dark Nebula practically forces you to build your team around it, but it's degenerate enough to actually make sense. Black Bane+Drain Sword's pretty good even without, and DK is definately to go-to class for those C8 group boss fights.
Vampire: 6/10. I waffle constantly on how harshly to punish them for that Dragon-chain nonsense, this will do as a tentative score.
Conjurer: 2/10. It's not a 0 entirely because you really do need to grind to L99 and max a ton of classes to deal with some nemeses, so Obliterate isn't gratuitous like it would be in a game like FF5.
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In rambling to myself, a few minor updates from getting halfway through C8.
Ninja: Kairai SEEMS like it should be bad unless paired with some cheesy Transience setup - turn inefficient, give up your turn for no change in enemy turns. But dang, it's actually really helpful, albeit super boring. My Tiz has snoozed through the Caldisla / Ancheim / Florem C8 team-up fights spamming Kairai->Edea nearly every turn - there's just too many targets to maintain constant Pirate debuffs, but you CAN redirect all that offense to the super-tank character who takes 1 from physicals and has a Ribbon on at the cost of only one turn. Physicals that are the likes of "OHKO or nearly OHKO" to others, and nasty ST status like Charm, too!
Summoner: Almost forgot, but Rusalka is a legit boss fight that actually rewards an MT elemental focus, so there's that in its favor (as well as Valk/Vamp I suppose for their MT physicals). For all that when you first fight her you won't have Deus Ex anyway....
Templar: Default Guard is really good, at least if you aren't blowing up the bosses with 3 Dark Knights. (Knew this before, just forgot to mention it.) I have it on 3/4 characters myself, and arguably should get it on all 4...
Conjurer: I can't believe I'm saying this, but... I've actually used Conjuring a little. In the aforementioned C8 boss fights, enemy speed is high enough to make healing a little chancy, and I don't particularly care about everyone else's speed, but I do want to have my healer guaranteed to go first. So... Hrelsveger isn't totally terrible for a Conjurer w/ White Magic setup, and possibly Giratblulu too (stop the likes of Barras's explosion from killing your healer). The obscene MP cost means you need to have someone else with Medication, but still, "weird narrow usage if you already have a separate Spiritmaster" is better than "totally useless." (Of course, if you start getting into narrow usages, then I'd have to bring up things like my Dark Knight being able to solo limit C7 Ominas who just spams really powerful magic that'd cleared the rest of my party out...)
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Bravely Default:
Freelancer: 3/10. Mime is cute and I do loves me some scanning. The class itself just isn't viable though, you need an A/S rank in a weapon as a physical class, so basically spent most of the game juggling characters secondary slots based on who could afford to.
White Mage: 9/10. Feel the power of healing.
Monk: 4/10. Real strong early, basically the bulk of your offense until you get Ranger I found.
Black Mage: 5/10. They're such a tremendous drain on MP that, despite being fairly consistently good offense through about mid-C4, you have to moderate their use constantly and they don't bring much to the table BESIDES 4x weakness hitting spell. Pierce MDef is a great late-game pickup at least. Useful enough but not really good either.
Knight: 7/10. Stomp is good, two hands is good, just a very solid and usable package.
Thief: 4/10. GSS has a window of godliness but that's 'bout all they bring to the table I felt.
Merchant: 2/10. I don't like half scores, and they're definitely worse than Freelancers, so.
Time Mage: 6/10. There comes a point in the game where Meteor is the only attack magic you care about I found, and it's sufficiently useful to prop TM up to decent. Time Slip is definitely something I got occasional use out as well. Mostly though you've only got the two attack mages most of the game so your magic user is proooobably going to alternate between the two anyway, TM has the somewhat better payoff.
Spell Fencer: 5/10. Class itself is such a terrible carrier I'm inclined to rate most of the physical jobs above it, but spellblade definitely has its niche so eh.
Ranger: 6/10. Ranger meanwhile loves it some Angel Bow, makes it top notch offense for a weirdly large time. Never getting an anti-human move is a big downside though, and after a point the skillset is just not really doing much for you because you have other ways of pumping your offense that stack better.
Summoner: 2/10. Basically pointless. BM already has enough MP problems and Summoner is like double cost on -ara spells and less able to hit weaknesses for a stretch.
Valkyrie: 6/10. Crescent Strike or whatever is damned good. The game just stops increasing the attack power on spears after a while though so they'll steadily get more and more outclassed until you drop them.
Red Mage: 2/10. Disappoint.
Performer: 8/10. Yup.
Pirate: 7/10. probably the go-to physical class for all of C3, and the skillset is useful on just about any physical build.
Salve Maker: 7/10. Healing Lore for the win. Also other useful stuff.
Swordmaster: 2/10. So much better for enemies than for you.
Ninja: 5/10. They've got tricks but overall take pretty specialized builds to be functional.
Arcanist: 3/10. Convergence has some niche use, at least.
Spiritmaster: 8/10. Those elemental wards are a hell of a thing. A lot of great skills for your healer in general, depending on overall party build.
Templar: 4/10. Usable but don't really add much unique overall.
Dark Knight: 8/10. The really funny thing about Dark Nebula is that unlike almost any other good physical setup, you can get near the damage cap and still use a shield, which is a big boon. Does however limit your ability to run another physical character that's not a Knight or another DK though.
Vampire: 6/10. Genome is middling for the effort involved, but their last skill is just the best and overall they synergize amazingly well with Dark Knights, always a bonus.
Conjurer: 2/10. Carrier class... with a rock bottom skillset for a primary slot. They'd be so much better if their thing was they just had two open command skill slots or something.
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For what it's worth I wouldn't say Dark Knight limits your other physical characters that badly, since you can swap shields on and off them as needed, so long as your DK and other physical attacker don't do their burst damage on the same turn. This is a pretty acceptable caveat since in randoms a DK alone more than suffices, and in bosses the brave/default system makes this not only possible, but desirable much of the time. (And of course there is Spiritmaster buffing for anyone who really doesn't want to use a shield.)
I completely understand if shield micromanaging is too annoying for many players, though.
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[23:44] * Reiska blinks
[23:44] <Reiska> When someone sees Meeple, if it's before I see him
[23:44] <Reiska> Could someone point out that the top 20 is out of order in the in-game-use thread
[23:44] <Reiska> Specifically
[23:44] <Reiska> 7. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
[23:44] <Reiska> 8. Blue (SaGa) 9.28
Heads up.
That/
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Updating Tomorrow Night.
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For the record, this session made me want to kill myself because OH GOD HINTS TOWARDS PLAYING A GAME I DIDN'T WANT HINTS ON GRAH!!! >:( no, do not take that seriously
Average STDEVA
Freelancer 2.90 0.70
White Mage 9.00 0.47
Monk 3.65 0.67
Black Mage 4.94 1.01
Knight 7.75 0.63
Thief 3.09 0.99
Merchant 2.05 0.60
Time Mage 5.81 1.46
Spell Fencer 6.75 1.11
Ranger 5.05 1.17
Summoner 2.89 0.74
Valkyrie 6.35 1.58
Red Mage 3.20 1.40
Performer 7.65 0.63
Pirate 7.65 0.53
Salve Maker 6.89 1.19
Swordmaster 3.70 1.23
Ninja 5.90 1.66
Arcanist 3.94 2.11
Spiritmaster 8.05 1.59
Templar 4.75 0.95
Dark Knight 9.10 0.57
Vampire 5.70 1.75
Conjurer 1.50 0.82
Full Cast Standard Deviation: 2.18
Congrats to both White Mage and Dark Knight for reaching the "Hall of Fame" or whatever I decide to call if 20 minutes from now.
Going with something a little...ah...cuter? this time around. Mostly because I kind of wanted to do this a while back and the sequel comes out soonish and well, you know...
CHIBIS!
Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy:
Warrior of Light:
Firion:
Onion Knight:
Cecil Harvey:
Bartz Klauser:
Terra Branford:
Cloud Strife:
Squall Leonhart:
Zidane Tribal:
Tidus:
Shantotto:
Vaan:
Claire "Lightning" Farron:
Princess Sarah:
Minwu:
Cid Haze:
Rydia:
Kain Highwind:
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz):
Locke Cole:
Aerith Gainsborough:
Sephiroth:
Seifer Almasy:
Vivi Ornitier:
Yuna:
Prishe:
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca:
Snow Villers:
Cosmos:
Given that many people haven't actually unlocked every character, I have divided up the starters and the unlockables for your convenience, in case you forgot who is what, should that matter. Of course, rate based on whatever criteria you want for this game because...well...chibis.
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CHIBIS!
Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy:
Warrior of Light: 7/10
Firion: 7/10
Onion Knight: 8/10
Cecil Harvey: 6/10
Bartz Klauser: 9/10
Terra Branford: 9/10
Cloud Strife: 7/10
Squall Leonhart: 7/10
Zidane Tribal: 7.5/10
Tidus: 7.5/10
Shantotto: 10/10
Vaan: 7.5/10
Claire "Lightning" Farron: 8/10
Princess Sarah: 8/10
Minwu: 7/10
Cid Haze: 6.5/10
Rydia: 8/10
Kain Highwind: 7/10
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz): 8/10
Locke Cole: 7/10
Aerith Gainsborough: 9/10
Sephiroth: 7/10
Seifer Almasy: 8/10
Vivi Ornitier: 9/10
Yuna: 9/10
Prishe: 9/10
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca: 7/10
Snow Villers: 8/10
Cosmos: 7.5/10
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Clearly a very important rating~
Ratings are mostly based on farming Level 1-60(?) dark notes as efficiently as possible, which means having just enough speed to get through the FMS part (which is a pretty low bar) and then killing the boss who drops the shard you need as quickly as possible. No need to go to a higher level because IIRC 51 is the minimum you need to get shards for every character, so going notably past that is just making shard-hunting more difficult. Since "beating the game" is dead easy, "unlocking all characters" is probably the goal most players want to reach, hence rating based on this. The only other time character choice matters at all is surviving an extremely difficult song before you're very good at it, where tankstrats have a use.
Warrior of Light: 7/10. One of the top physical damage-dealers. EDIT: Actually less impressive than I thought.
Firion: 7/10. EDIT: Never mind he's the same as WoL.
Onion Knight: 2/10. Useless?
Cecil Harvey: 4/10. Weird and not very good.
Bartz Klauser: 3/10. FMS specialist.
Terra Branford: 8.5/10. Often the most damaging PC, adequate FMS performance.
Cloud Strife: 9/10. Seemed like he had pretty much everything: crazy damage AND a limit and can even twink for FMS if you care (you don't).
Squall Leonhart: 8/10. See Warrior of Light, a little less good at what WoL does but has a limit.
Zidane Tribal: 6/10. Has those stat buffs and such which are nice, along with a limit. (sadly)
Tidus: 4/10. Don't think there was much reason to use him. Limit but blah.
Shantotto: 8/10. Kaboom.
Vaan: 3/10. uh
Claire "Lightning" Farron: 7/10. High strength/magic means she outputs lots of damage.
All unlocked characters kinda suck since you need to level them to catch up. Need to think about how bad the penalty should be. Probably pretty bad. I may change these, quick kneejerk time.
Princess Sarah: 3/10. Has some defensive use.
Minwu: 1/10. Nope.
Cid Haze: 3/10. Scan can be kinda handy for those dark notes.
Rydia: 1/10. Nope. She looks like she should be a good mage if you catch her up but she isn't, really.
Kain Highwind: 1/10. Nope.
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz): 2/10. Would be solid if you got her caught up I guess.
Locke Cole: 1/10. Nope.
Aerith Gainsborough: 1/10. Nope.
Sephiroth: 3/10. Excellent stats/damage once caught up.
Seifer Almasy: 1/10. Nope.
Vivi Ornitier: 1/10. Nope.
Yuna: 3/10. Has some defensive use.
Prishe: 1/10. Nope.
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca: 2/10. See Faris.
Snow Villers: 3/10. Has some defensive use.
Cosmos: 1/10. Nope.
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Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy:
Warrior of Light: 6/10
Firion: 6/10
Onion Knight: 3/10
Cecil Harvey: 4/10
Bartz Klauser: 4/10
Terra Branford: 8/10
Cloud Strife: 9/10
Squall Leonhart: 8/10
Zidane Tribal: 7/10
Tidus: 7/10
Shantotto: 8/10
Vaan: 4/10?
Claire "Lightning" Farron: 7/10
Princess Sarah: 5/10
Minwu: 1/10
Cid Haze: 5/10
Rydia: 2/10
Kain Highwind: 1/10
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz): 4/10
Locke Cole: 2/10
Aerith Gainsborough: 4/10
Sephiroth: 4/10
Seifer Almasy: 1/10
Vivi Ornitier: 3/10
Yuna: 5/10
Prishe: 5/10
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca: 2/10
Snow Villers: 3/10
Cosmos: ?
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Warrior of Light: 7/10. Good damage BMS PC once he gets going; takes a little bit but nothing unreasonable.
Firion: 7.5/10. WoL but gets the important stuff considerably earlier making him better. Not as durable as WoL, but better at FMS', so eh, fair trade?
Onion Knight: 2/10. Balance of FMS and BMS, but doesn't get anything to make him stand out. High speed is kind of overkill and there are other PCs who do that, but much better at FMS.
Cecil Harvey: 3/10. Very much the same problem as Onion KNight but not as anemic at BMS'; he's still a case of "really not worth it."
Bartz Klauser: 2/10. FMS Specialists aren't very good, he's not exception, particularly because...
Terra Branford: 8/10. She's just fast enough for purposes of FMS' on top of being actually GOOD at BMS'; game best mage, pretty cleanly, thanks to Trance, Bluff and getting all the essentials.
Cloud Strife: 9/10. And then we have the game best BMS PC due to having what WoL and Firion have *AND* adds an extremely effective limit on top of that. Can be twinked for FMS' if you really want, which could be argued a waste, but hey, at least the option is there and he's still probably better at damage than FMS specialists anyway. I forgot to say, he also gets his good stuff early enough.
Squall Leonhart: 6.5/10. Very much "Cloud-lite"; feels a little less effective than WoL and Firion, but still solid in his own right.
Zidane Tribal: 6/10. Hey look, an FMS PC who doesn't suck at BMS! Has a limit, and can buff the entire team, self included, to be better; his one downside is he does have a limit in his effectiveness due to stat caps, but that's a hell of a lot more than you can say about...
Tidus: 2/10. ...this FMS specialist right here who has nothing going for him. Yawn, moving on.
Shantotto: 6.5/10. A service-able, though overall inferior, variant of Terra, Shantotto is fast enough for FMS', and has all the necessary resources to be an effective BMS Mage, between having all important attack spells, and both Bluff and Dualcast, not to mention a Limit. She's overall worse, but definitely competent.
Vaan: 1/10. An FMS PC who exists solely to horde items...THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING IN THE SLIGHTEST GO AWAY!
Claire "Lightning" Farron: 6/10. A balanced Fighter/Mage, and starts the game with Sinewy Etude, and Omega Weapon is great before pesky Damage caps kick in.
Princess Sarah: 3/10. Workable for a healer character, but she really needs to be placed alongside tanks...
Minwu: 5/10. Like this guy! High HP + lots of defensive abilities and healing, definitely a strong character to have if you just want to SURVIVE the song.
Cid Haze: 2.5/10. Half a point for getting Libra Lv 3, but otherwise *Flush*
Rydia: 2/10. Rydia is some sort of cruel joke, I feel. She gets all the necessary attack spells, but can only use two of them at a time, a distinction Terra, Shantotto and Vivi (the other pure mages) all lack, as well as misses both Bluff and Dualcast, making her overall worse as a mage than Lightning or Ashe. Mana's Paean is nice, I guess, but doesn't make up for her other failings.
Kain Highwind: 2/10. Also a cruel joke, Kain is one of the last PC's you're likely to get, and on paper he should have evrything but can only equip one Pro-active ability, making him significantly worse than many other Fighters. Being as late as he is, he'll also be underleveled.
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz): 2/10. This character is just kind of a mess; they were trying for some ultra balanced build, and what we were left with is someone who is kind of mediocre at everything.
Locke Cole: 2/10. FMS PC, Libra Lv 2 helps for Dark Notes I guess but that's about all he has going for him.
Aerith Gainsborough: 4/10. Minwu with a few better skills but significantly lower HP, overall losing trade
Sephiroth: 2/10. Very much the same issues as Kain; on paper he's got this really neat allowance for a physical or magic build, but in practice he's gotten too damned late to care.
Seifer Almasy: 1/10. They were clearly aiming for some oddball styled tank here...they failed miserably.
Vivi Ornitier: 5/10. Is Shantotto who is gotten later and without the Limit, making him overall worse, but good if you wanted a 2nd Shantotto or something!
Yuna: 4/10. Aerith variant, for the most part.
Prishe: 4/10. Healer who can do damage in BMS'! This isn't as good as it sounds, because you rarely want to survive if you want to win fights; that said, she's competent enough at the healer thing that she can be a Minwu variant.
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca: 3/10. She can do the healing thing ok-ish, and the Mage thing ok-ish, but not good enough at either to bother.
Snow Villers: 5/10. Great tank; lacks healing, but he compliments them well with the really high health and damage reduction.
Cosmos: 1/10. Support character who is gotten as late as Sephiroth and Kain likely *flush*
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Clearly a very important rating~
CLearly, very important indeed and it's been established NEB, Ciatos and Meeple most awesome peoples and the only ones to get cookies here~
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Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy:
Warrior of Light: 7/10. Good tank for when you want to try battle themes on ultimate.
Firion: 6/10. Good at attacking, but not as good as the top end PCs.
Onion Knight: 2/10. Bad
Cecil Harvey: 4/10. Okay tank, but WoL is better.
Bartz Klauser: 2/10. Bad
Terra Branford: 8/10. Magical smash
Cloud Strife: 9/10. Physical smash.
Squall Leonhart: 8/10. Slightly worse physical smash
Zidane Tribal: 8/10. Awesome Dark Note grinder, good damage/agility and has a boss killing move.
Tidus: 3/10. Zidane-, if I'm remembering things right.
Shantotto: 5/10. Terra-
Vaan: 2/10. Bad.
Claire "Lightning" Farron: 6/10. Same as Firion feels about right.
Princess Sarah: 1/10. No.
Minwu: 1/10. No.
Cid Haze: 2/10. Point for SCAN I guess.
Rydia: 3/10. Bleh, want her to be better but Shantotto-(who is already Terra-)
Kain Highwind: 0/10. Lolno.
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz): 1/10. No.
Locke Cole: 2/10. Point for SCAN I guess.
Aerith Gainsborough: 1/10. No.
Sephiroth: 0/10. Lolno.
Seifer Almasy: 1/10. No.
Vivi Ornitier: 4/10. Better than Rydia I guess.
Yuna: 1/10. No.
Prishe: 1/10. No.
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca:
Snow Villers: 2/10. Point for supertanking, iirc.
Cosmos: 0/10. Lolno.
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Sorry for the long hiatus, but I promise there will be an update in the next 24 hours.
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Average STDEVA
Warrior of Light 6.08 0.45
Firion 6.70 0.67
Onion Knight 3.40 2.61
Cecil Harvey 4.20 1.1
Bartz Klauser 4.00 2.92
Terra Branford 8.30 0.45
Cloud Strife 8.60 0.89
Squall Leonhart 7.50 0.71
Zidane Tribal 6.92 0.91
Tidus 4.70 2.44
Shantotto 7.50 1.87
Vaan 3.50 2.5
Claire "Lightning" Farron 6.80 0.84
Princess Sarah 4.00 2.65
Minwu 3.00 2.83
Cid Haze: 3.80 1.89
Rydia 3.20 2.77
Kain Highwind 2.20 2.77
Sarisa Scherwil Tycoon (aka Faris Scherwiz) 3.40 2.79
Locke Cole 3.20 2.39
Aerith Gainsborough 3.40 3.36
Sephiroth 3.00 2.74
Seifer Almasy 2.40 3.13
Vivi Ornitier 4.40 2.97
Yuna 4.40 2.97
Prishe 4.00 3.32
Ashelia "Ashe" B'nargin Dalmasca N/A (3.50) N/A (2.38)
Snow Villers 4.20 2.39
Cosmos N/A (2.38) N/A (3.17)
Full Cast Standard Deviation 1.89
Cosmos and Ashe failed to get enough ratings hence they were not counted into the Standard Deviation.
I apologize for the messy format, you can blame the above entirely on the fact that Kain Highwind is in the cast.
And now that we've had a month between ratnigs...MORE JOB RELATED RATINGS TIME!!!! AND THERE'S NOTHING THE NEXT PERSON POSTING CAN DO ABOUT IT! Except, you know, there's plenty they can do about it and I'm talking out of my ass.
Blue Dragon:
Sword Master:
Black Mage:
White Mage:
Support Mage:
Barrier Mage:
Guardian:
Monk:
Assassin:
Generalist:
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Sword Master: 5/10. Standard fighter job, Mow Down is pretty solid, and it's a part of physical twinking if you go for that. Nothing outstanding though.
Black Mage: 8.5/10. Dominantly good on Normal Mode. A bit fragile but so much firepower, and Regenerate MP is a nice skill too.
White Mage: 7/10. Healing spells are solid, the item-enhancing skills (Double Item, Enhance Item Effect) are also extremely good, and Harm is nice for undead. Kinda fragile and bad at offence otherwise, though, the usual WM way. (And items are good enough that you certainly don't NEED white magic, though of course WM skills are your best vehicle for using said items.)
Support Mage: 5/10. Slow is awesome on any bosses who are vulnerable, and the status is okay but a bit disappointing for an FF (-inspired) game. Some buffs which are nice but not game-breaking. Their lategame skills are great but I never got 'em.
Barrier Mage: 4/10. Defensive buffs are cool, but I don't think quite matches up with Support Mage overall.
Guardian: 3.5/10. Mostly just useful for Max HP+25%, but at Level 9 that's a reasonable thing to pick up and it's pretty handy. Probably the least useful class but not bad considering that.
Monk: 5/10. One of the classes useful for physical twinking, with Charged Attack and Attack Amp and counter.
Assassin: 6/10. Ninja Swiftness is terrific, and their capstone skill is great for physical twinking. It's late enough that they get less credit for physicals than do Swordmaster and Monk, but man, that speed.
Generalist: Ugh they give me a headache. Obviously you get their skills, their skills are great, but you don't want to be them. And their skills are great in a boring way. Abstain.
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Sword Master: 5. Generic warrior class. Not BAD really but nothing spectacular. Hitting weakness is nice but the damage output even so isn't amazing. Admittedly it did do well in some battles.
Black Mage: 8. WTF.
White Mage: 7. I figured this was pretty valuable for certain battles.
Support Mage: 8. Very valuable in fights that matter! Hastening is important.
Barrier Mage: 5. Useful for some grinding strategies!
Guardian: 5. Nice for sme passives I think.
Monk: 5. Likewise, not very much of a carrier class.
Assassin: 7. Speed and a physical twink... But it's mostly all about that speed, which is just so freaking nice.
Generalist: N/A
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Sword Master: 6/10. Decent physical job with elemental hits, but not particularly special.
Black Mage: 8/10. Powerhouse class.
White Mage: 7/10. Healing is good.
Support Mage: 5/10. I guess it's a decent carrier class because better stats than other mages but yeah, skillset.
Barrier Mage: 5/10. See above.
Guardian: 7/10. Reliable tank.
Monk: 4/10. Was less impressed by this than Sword Master.
Assassin: 6/10. I remember them being iffy start, but a decent end.
Generalist: 5/10. You totally want to invest time in one, but how good their abilities are really depends on everything else you get, so it's extremely hard to give rate them. Still, don't feel right NOT rating them because legitimate job so average rating it gets!
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Played Hard Mode!
Sword Master: 5/10
Black Mage: 7/10
White Mage: 8.5/10
Support Mage: 6/10
Barrier Mage: 7.5/10
Guardian: 6/10
Monk: 3/10
Assassin: 6/10
Generalist: 5/10
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Blue Dragon:
Sword Master: 5/10.
Black Mage: 8/10
White Mage: 7/10
Support Mage: 3/10
Barrier Mage: 4/10
Guardian: 4/10
Monk: 5/10
Assassin: 6/10
Generalist: 3/10
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Blue Dragon:
Average STDEVA
Sword Master 5.20 0.45
Black Mage 7.90 0.55
White Mage 7.30 0.67
Support Mage 5.40 1.82
Barrier Mage 5.10 1.43
Guardian 5.10 1.43
Monk 4.40 0.89
Assassin 6.20 0.45
Generalist N/A (4.33) N/A (2.51)
Standard Deviation: 1.51
So I'm having problems thinking of the next game to do. Looking back at doing Blue Dragon, one thing came to mind...
FEAR AND AWE! IN YOUR EYES!
SHOWING YOU WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE!
RAISE YOUR HAND! YOU ARE BLIND!
STARING DOWN ETERNITY!
Wait, Eternity! Living for an Eternity = Immortality! Immortality = Lost Odyssey!
This may not have actually happened.
...so yes, we're going from one Mistwalker game to another!
Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar:
Seth Balmor:
Jansen Friedh:
Cooke:
Mack:
Ming Numara:
Sarah Sisulart:
Tolten:
Sed:
Gongara's Pumps:
And that last one is an absolute requirement to be rated. I will not accept your ratings if you skip it.
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Can we give non-numeric ratings for the Pumps?
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No, you must give a numeric rating! ]That said, the rating need not make any sort of remote logical sense, so do whatever.
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Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 8
Seth Balmor: 8
Jansen Friedh: 4. Has uses, but man, eventually Immortals start getting access to spells before he does. (And getting Cooke's at the same time)
Cooke: 3.5. I think similar to Jansen, has uses, but needed to not be so badly outpaced by immortals.
Mack: 5.5. Has a few neat utility spells, and from my recollection, either Immortals don't gain his spells except from linking or the items to gain his spells come notably later.
Ming Numara: 7. Think mages didn't quite keep face with fighters overall, IIRC
Sarah Sisulart: 7. Ditto to the above.
Tolten: 3. Not much going on here. He's not horrible, but I can't recall a good reason to use him.
Sed: 8. Double Item is just a stupid thing. It's so stupid I'm tempted to go higher
Gongora's Pumps: 8. Because they are not...
Ming's Double Thong: 10. Because she's wearing TWO of them are they appear to be blue leather.
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Kaim: 7.5. Really outpaces at the end and the early early parts but kinda lags in the middle when you don't really need a physical guy much outside of tanking?
Seth: 8. Durability on a fighter-mage and speed makes her more useful than Kaim generally during his lagging periods. No one else really copies her build. In a game where specialization sucks/doesn't exist, the generalist is actually pretty useful.
Jansen: 5.5. Damage in the early and Midgame. As soon as the iortals learn all his tricks, he's done. Notably double cast is a trick that at least takes a few battles to learn so he gets a brief resurgence of use towards the end. More than I can say for
Cooke: 3. Only use if you need four healers or are really lagging behind on learning white magic somehow.
Mack: 4. Has some unique stuff that takes a whole for te immortals to learn but none of it is useful. Only use if you really need the first turn as he's got the speed.
Ming: 7. Slings the magic, starts with good stuff. Learns anything else you need. A generalist but slow and frail.
Sarah: 7. Literally the same as Ming but slightly higher magic that is basically unnoticeable. But since they can do everything you may as well use them both.
Tolten: 4.5. has unique Equips and does physical stuff! This is a decent niche but comes kinda late and most fights aren't won by physicals. Has a unique elemental blocking passive worth learning on your immortals.
Sed: 5. Guns and double item. Items are broken good. Often used him as my non-immortal for gimmicky fights in the endgame. Comes too late to be better than Jansen overall though.
LO Fashion: I love it and will hear no bad words against it! Double things forever! 100/10
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Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 5/10
Seth Balmor: 6/10
Jansen Friedh: 3/10
Cooke: 4/10
Mack: 3/10
Ming Numara: 7/10
Sarah Sisulart: 7/10
Tolten: 3/10
Sed: 5/10
Gongara's Pumps: 16/10. I'd f me. f me so hard.
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Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 8/10. Immortals are obviously good, Kaim has HP for days, smashes things in the face, and can get various utility.
Seth Balmor: 8/10. Kaim version faster but less durable (still stupidly durable).
Jansen Friedh: 4/10. He's okay, he gives some spells to better people and you move on.
Cooke: 4/10. Ehhh see Jansen more or less. Her spells are slightly better but her stats are slightly worse? I think?
Mack: 3/10. Definitely felt his spells were worse than those of the above.
Ming Numara: 7/10. Mage with better stats/skillset.
Sarah Sisulart: 7/10. Ming with somehow less ridiculous fashion sense.
Tolten: 2/10. I don't remember him having much use at all.
Sed: 6/10. Best mortal, lots of useful stuff and it doesn't all bleed instantly to the better PCs. Felt like an easy choice for a fifth PC late.
Gongara's Pumps: Amazing Grefter Rants/10
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Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 8/10. Tank with good physical damage, and the way Lost Odyssey is structured, tanks are a legitimate thing.
Seth Balmor: 8/10. ...yeah, she's Kaim with a bit of stat adjustments but ultimately used in the same way. The stuff she's better at she's not better at in a majorly significant way, and she's frailer but still "way more durable than everyone else so who cares."
Jansen Friedh: 4/10. If you want a 3rd offensive mage, he's alright for the job, and allows for more accessory slots, but ultimately he's replace-able.
Cooke: 5/10. I find healing more valuable than offensive magic, and she has the charge time skills which allow Ming and Sarah to be considerably more effective, so she's got use outside of that.
Mack: 2/10. He's meant to be a fighter mage but doesn't really do either well, and his support skills aren't worthwhile enough to put a character for. Ming/Sarah can cover that angle if you really want.
Ming Numara: 7.5/10. Nukes battlefields, and has plenty of MP for healing!
Sarah Sisulart: 7.5/10. Is identical to Ming in every-way sans the SLIGHT BIT OF INTELLECT ADVANTAGE! ...which is a pure numerical one and not actually relevant. I guess Ming technically has availability advantage for a brief instance, so we'll say those two meaningless advantages offset one another.
Tolten: 3/10. His unique gear is really good! Not in his hands mind you, but you do need him to get your immortals to use those items. That's about the only good thing I can say for him.
Sed: 6/10. Huh, a Mortal that actually feels like he pulls his weight and not so easily replaced by an Immortal? Yeah, clear 5th Slotter.
Gongara's Pumps: 6829/2839. I can't justify this value, but it feels correct.
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Update is coming tonight. Yes, this is way overdue, and I apologize, but thought I'd make the courtesy "LAST CHANCE" post before just updating out of the blue.
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| Average | STDEVA |
| Kaim Argonar | 7.30 | 1.30 |
| Seth Balmor | 7.60 | 0.89 |
| Jansen Friedh | 4.10 | 0.89 |
| Cooke | 3.90 | 0.74 |
| Mack | 3.50 | 1.32 |
| Ming Numara | 7.10 | 0.22 |
| Sarah Sisulart | 7.10 | 0.22 |
| Tolten | 3.10 | 0.89 |
| Sed | 6.00 | 1.22 |
Full Cast Standard Deviation:1.85
We finally move onto something...that will probably not be too popular? Whatever, I'm doing it anyway, because reasons!
Phantasy Star 2:
Rolf Landale:
Nei:
Rudolph Steiner:
Amy Sage:
Hugh Thompson:
Anna Zirski:
Josh Kain:
Shir Gold:
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Rolf Landale - 9/10. One of the archetypal overpowered mains, even though I feel his worth gets somewhat inflated due to the general power level in your party being so questionable on average. Regardless, he packs uniformly good stats, the best equipment, the best magical damage, best defense-subject physical damage and even decent variety for when it matters (Ryuka and Hinas are so fucking good for cutting down on pointless travel time and Rever, dear god, Rever. Healing is pretty trivial, though, storebought items and Gires itemcasts are all you really want for that in-game). You'd never want to make a party without Rolf even if he wasn't forced.
Nei - 6/10. Well, early on, she's quite good - game-best offense and speed for the first couple dungeons and your first healer at the point where you actually want it. As the game advances, she becomes steadily worse, particularly durability-wise (though always retaining solid offense and speed) until she dies. But she's never actually -bad- while you have her, so being good early and middling later nets you an above average score.
Rudolph Steiner - 7/10. Entirely ST and packs absolutely no variety, but solid ITD damage all game long is a valuable niche and so is the durability in a game like PS2. Also a staple in the party throughout, and being the first party joiner makes a huge difference in this game as well - no catch-up yakkety sax required.
Amy Sage - 2/10. She's pretty bad. TP-based healing in Phantasy Star 2 is a huge waste of time due to being vastly outresourced by items even before Gires itemcasts kick in and she has an awful equipment/status loadout to bear (sketchy durability and game-worst speed ON A HEALER, guys). Her defensive buffs would be largely useless even if they weren't almost all glitched - only Deban is worth the time, and you might as well not bother running off someone who pretty much always goes last. She's even the only PC to get MT healing, but it's so overpriced and underpowered you're better off using Star Mists. The only time when she isn't appalingly bad is in-between Uzo and Climatrol -if- you happen to steal a couple Fire Staves at Piata's equip store (since they're pretty potent weapons for the time you can first get them), but it's pretty telling that those are Amy's -best- weapon throughout the game. She's even an early joiner, and this seriously matters in PS2 where EVERYBODY JOINS AT LEVEL 1, but holy crap.
Hugh Thompson - 3.5/10. On join, he's about as bad as Amy across the board, but his skillset builds into something remotely usable (at least, Vol's decently early)... then you hit the Dams and he becomes utterly useless due to nothing he ever has working on mechanical enemies. This remedies itself to a degree once you finally hit Dezolis, but biological monsters are always less threatening than robots, and his stat spread's even worse than Amy's (though equipment is better). From the Nei dungeons onwards, Savol rules the universe (surprisingly accurate MT ID that nothing immunes in a game with randoms as nasty as PS2's? Man, I care), but that's frankly too little, too late.
Anna Zirski - 5/10. Mostly about fast crowd-controlling offense, which is nice... but bad durability on a frontline fighter sucks and her slashers are hugely defense-subject (for instance, she's terrible against most mechs). What keeps her as a staple slot is being the best candidate for Snow Crown spamming in battles due to her speed - free MT damage halving is awesome and Rolf's turns are way too valuable offensively to make him the prime spammer. Also, the first of the late joiners, which is a slight hit against her.
Josh Kain - 6.5/10. Almost as bad against biological creatures as Hugh is against robots, but man, is he -good- against bots, who are the most dangerous enemies in the game. Adequate stat spread too, and from the Nei dungeons onwards, his skillset works on everything. His ID doesn't become MT like Hugh's and is less accurate, but he gets so much more offense you honestly don't care. Late joiner, but he's worth the hassle.
Shir Gold - 1.5/10. Simply appalling. Last PC to join, sporting stats comparable to Amy outside speed and Amy-level equips and a horrible skillset build. Only thing you should ever use her for is stealing the Visiphone to make the game remotely bearable, pocketing a few Star Mists and Moon Dews and maybe some midgame weaponry if you care as well.
What an unbalanced cast.
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Something I've actually played. Yes. I finish the game with Rolf around Lv 30 and the others around 24-26 and my ratings will reflect such. So no "Shir has good damage because she learns Nazan" here.
Rolf Landale: 9/10 High stats across the board and the strongest attack magic. He also has high Agility to act as an emergency healer with Gires. As if being flat out better than the rest of cast at just about everything wasn't enough, the strongest bladed weapons are exclusive to him and he has the fastest EXP curve out of everyone besides Nei. He'd still be a solid pick/shoe-in even in that imaginary version where he wasn't forced into the party and didn't have level advantage favoring him like in-game.
Nei: 5/10 Hits stuff and generally does it well thanks to high Agility and weapon strength. Lags in damage at Nido and on high defense enemies. Her utility fills the healer niche well enough for the time she's available. She does OK on defense in practice relative to everyone else though naturally is weak in that area relative to a party loaded up on ceramic armor.
Rudolph Steiner: 9/10 Consistent defense piercing damage and durability unmatched by anyone besides an endgame Rolf toting the Neisword and Neimet: Rudo brings little else. The fact that his damage on endgame bosses is only exceeded by Rolf and Kain (and Rudo doesn't require TP) really helps out for long dungeon crawls. Choosing not to take him leaves someone vulnerable to freak deaths.
Amy Sage: 3/10 Deban halves all damage and is invaluable for getting past Neifirst without needing to spend hours grinding for equipment. She also has passable TP growth (in a cast average of awful) to serve as an out of battle healbot in the early going. Gires equips and Snow Crown effectively replace her later on. Her only really unique lategame contribution is Anti, saving a few slots that would otherwise be occupied by Antidotes. Gameworst speed on top of weak equipment options and the slowest EXP curve in the cast give little reason to recommend her. Her Nei equip options save her from gameworst equipment status, that "honor" goes to...
Hugh Thompson: 3/10 The first thing that comes to mind for me is gameworst armor draw. Statwise, he's very similar to Any; he trades some TP for slightly better base Defense, Agility, and HP. Skillset wise, he only has a few contributions I feel are worthwhile. Sagen has it's uses in the first third of the game on larger packs. Doran has a high hit rate and effectively halves the damage output of any enemy that only uses physicals (dragons come to mind) if for some reason one doesn't choose to kill them outright with Vol/Savol. The utility of his instant death on Dezo is straightforward; on high defense + high HP enemies, he can take them out faster than Rolf. He actually has a decent TP pool to use his ID with too.
Somehow manages to be the best 4th slot pick for Mother Brain at my levels; his 40 damage Gifois contribute more damage than anything the ladies have at the levels I beat the game at. Still, weak durability and agility as well as being useless for the middle third of the game leads me to pull his rating down.
Anna Zirski: 5/10 is the worst character without slashers. Once she has them, clears randoms like no one else but is hugely gimped against high defense targets. May as well pretend she doesn't have techs too. Low defense tends to not matter too much; she loses no damage in the back row and every multitarget enemy attack ignores defense anyways.
Josh Kain: 5/10 Well, a large portion of his skillset either has accuracy issues or is obseleted by Storm Gear. His really potent offense takes large amounts of TP to power too and he doesn't seem to have as much as I'd like. Still easily the top choice to accompany Rolf and Rudo in beating Mother Brain. And hey, he has no need to reserve TP for healing or utility so it's less of an issue if he does blow all his TP along the way.
Shir Gold: 2/10 Visiphone makes the game "hard" instead of "painful." Once acquired, she can sit out the rest of the game without the player missing out on anything important (Nagra comes too late). Compared to similarly leveled characters she has excellent Agility and competent Defense (3rd behind Rudo and Rolf) However, she has very little to channel her speed into. Furthermore, her strongest weapon is a Laser Knife due to a bug with the Laconia Dagger so her physical damage stops improving earlier than anyone else.
Besides her Agility, her stat and magic distribution comes off as a wannabe Rolf. She'll pick up most of his tech list, but at higher levels. Her defense is better than the other companions but not as good as his. She also has much less TP to use her magic with so she runs out of steam faster. Also she has a fast EXP curve though again, slower than Rolf's.
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Sweet, Phantasy Star II. Cast balance is probably the most fun thing to note about this crazy flawed game. :3
Rolf Landale: 9.5
Nei: 7
Rudolph Steiner: 8
Amy Sage: 3
Hugh Thompson: 3
Anna Zirski: 5
Josh Kain: 6.5
Shir Gold: 1.5
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We interrupt your rating of PS2 to catch up on rating a cast from a much better game
Bravely Default (Hard mode):
Freelancer: Some quality of life stuff, Ise-no-Kami being good in C1, and Mimic existing late for people who care elevate it above existing, but otherwise lol. 3/10
White Mage: Yeah I dunno how you justify lower than a 9 here, even with the bad offense. BD's not a game where you want to do without a dedicated healer and WM's skillset is pretty much the best at it, though maybe Salve-Maker could pinch hit if you hate the class and refuse to use it or something. Never mind that Angelic Ward is pretty good and that there's worse things you could do than dip into the class for Staff Lore for randoms since those actually have a period of goodness for physical classes. 9.5/10.
Monk: Well Iron Pole (or that free C3 Diamond Staff) Crescent Moon is pretty good at efficiently dealing with C3/4 randoms, and Monk does have both good STR/AGI and a natural S in staves, so that gets you above Freelancer. Still, it's not like that's particularly hard to replicate, and the class kind of blows before then, doesn't have a whole lot to offer, and is straight-up outclassed after. 4/10.
Black Mage: Well they slap things around in C1 and could be worse in C2 but past that they just aren't that cost-effective compared to other options. Doesn't really help that BD stacks the deck in favor of fighters so Spell Fencer ends up doing what BM does better anyways for less MP to boot. Pierce M.Def helps but it only feels worthwhile with Meteor and it's too little, too late there since you have better ways of dealing damage by then anyways. But since you're not really going to be making a competitive mage build without this, 5/10 works.
Knight: So yeah, two-handing, it's pretty great. Stomp's also good in C1/2, and it has some pretty good stuff to offer later down the line too. 7.5/10.
Thief: Well those speed boosting passives are nice, I certainly noticed not having them in places before I went to get them. Past that uh they can use bows I guess. Better game for stealing than many but I'm not overly impressed there. 4/10.
Merchant: Exists. More money is nice, but it's attached to Freelancer-level stats (aka ewwwwww) and a fantastically worthless skillset until JL10. 2/10.
Time Mage: So yeah, speed instability kills on Hard and TM goes a fair ways at helping with that and Meteor is the other piece to the make mage damage competitive late puzzle. Too bad about the class doing pretty much nothing for offense by itself until then, Earth hitting weakness on practically nothing = who cares. 6.5/10
Spell Fencer: So yeah, like I said, Sword Magic ends up doing the BM thing better for cheaper thanks to the system and it's pretty front loaded on when it gives you the skillset to boot (seriously, you get Lv5 Sword Magic before JP reqs start skyrocketing and you might not need even that much). Adding weakness hitting, status, or draining to pretty much everything good that's physical? Yes please. 7.5/10
Ranger: They uh use bows. Species weakness hitting I guess but they miss humans and you do better for crystal bosses anyways so why care. 4/10.
Summoner: Exists. Slow mage class that's bad at hitting weakness until most of the way through C3, pretty inefficient against most bosses even when they can hit weakness, and gotten when you're not far off from Crescent Moon anyways so who really cares. Class is pretty much a dead zone for support abilities too. 2/10.
Valkyrie: So yeah, Crescent Moon, it's pretty great, the class starts with it and it's MP-free physical MT and it's like at least half of the class's worth. Not really worth the same score as Knight/Spell Fencer since the class doesn't really offer anything else that's impressive but really being able to chump a bunch of C3/4 formations for relatively little effort and expenditure, particularly on Hard where allowing randoms to get turns at that point is inadviseable, is worth at least an average score by itself, and you really could do worse for a midgame physical carrier. 6.5/10.
Red Mage: Well the BP-related passives are cute and have some application. Otherwise, *flush*. Having two skillsets for the price of one is only worth something when both skillsets are good and the BM side is pretty bad by the time the class comes. 3/10.
Performer: So yeah, MT buffing, it's pretty great. Being able to dole out BP to someone else when you don't need to buff is also pretty great. There's not *much else* but who cares, the skillset could be attached to a complete deadzone of passives and Freelancer stats (which admittedly it is very close to) and still be an 8/10.
Pirate: So yeah, debuffing, it's pretty great. Gamebest STR and Axe Lore are also pretty great. Durability isn't that great but whatever. 7.5/10.
Salve Maker: Why yes I would like double MP recovery. Ultimately not as good as WM but can make it better and can do its own thing in places too. 6.5/10.
Swordmaster: Uh. Physical carrier that revolves around counterstances, whoo hoo. Free Lunch is good, but come on, you gotta offer a bit more than that when your skillset involves that much hoopjumping to make serviceable. 3.5/10
Ninja: Hello cheese. Hello not much but cheese. 6/10.
Arcanist: Holy crap those are some lopsided stats. I guess Status Amp has amusing implications against bosses but attached to such a dead zone I have difficulty caring. 3/10.
Spiritmaster: dat skillset. Oh yeah Holy One is ridiculous for healing too but mostly dat skillset. 9/10.
Templar: Well they have some nice passives at least and there's certainly far worse than Rampart, but aside from those things who cares, outclassed by Dark Knight which comes a dungeon later and wouldn't be that great even if that didn't exist. 4.5/10
Dark Knight: So yeah, never mind. Good stats on the physical end, great skillset, good weapon/armor affinities, good passives, exceedingly trivial downsides, this is basically everything good. 9/10.
Vampire: So this is kind of weird because that dragon sidequest exists and at best you get the class a dungeon before Dark Knight and on the surface it emphasizes randombusting when that starts to be not very useful. On the other hand it's far from a lost cause against bosses (worse than Dark Knight but WHAT ISN'T) and carries some pretty nice passives to boot, especially that last one, what the fuck 50% autorevive for 1 SP, so yeah, can't really justify a below average score and I certainly can't justify a 1. 5.5/10.
Conjurer: A mage carrier class with a skillset that poor obtained that late? Yeah no. 1/10.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled ratings.
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yes, I'm falling behind, I'll update this by next week. Why not tomorrow? ...because reasons!
Phantasy Star 2:
Rolf Landale: 9.5/10. He's merely decent early game, but yeah, text book broken main character. While arguably going overboard, he's a prime example of a forced main character slot that doesn't feel like a burden just based on that alone.
Nei: 6/10. She's alright due to her level growth, getting weapons good enough to work with, and having some basic healing...the issue is though that because she's forced, she does hurt the usage of characters in the 2nd half where she's not available.
Rudolph Steiner: 7/10. Tank with ITD damage, which is valuable against the common high defense enemies. He's pretty much the only character who can come close to competing with Rolf in stats, though he lacks the skillset.
Amy Sage: 4/10. I think she's better than people give her credit for, but yeah, she gets her important stuff too slow.
Hugh Thompson: 3/10. Vol is really all he has going for him, and when he's out of TP, you're better off with anyone else. He's also useless during the Dams section.
Anna Zirski: 5/10. Slashes are nice, Shift is alright, could be worse.
Josh Kain: 5.5/10. He's basically Hugh except his stuff works on things you care about, including having high damage for the last few bosses. Loses half a point for joining late in a game where everyone joins at level 1.
Shir Gold: 1/10. Gets you the Viziphone and...then is completely worthless! Also she joins stupid late; there's literally no reason to level her above 10 because after that, she can steal all worthwhile stuff.
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I'm curious to see what others have to say, but reading after ranking. Warning: the following impressions are about a decade old.
Phantasy Star 2:
Rolf Landale: 10/10
Is either the best or near the best at everything. Technically forced, but since there's no scenario where you wouldn't want to be using him, it's hard to tell.
Nei: 6.8/10
She's not all that good. However, she levels fast, and she's your healer in the early part of the game so she stays competitive. Near the mid game she starts to peak and then fall behind, but she has the good grace to leave before she becomes a lodestone.
Rudolph Steiner: 9/10
Docked a point for having no healing and no flavours to what he does. However, what he does do is tank like a boss and pack the second best damage in the game so he doesn't really need a second dimension.
Amy Sage: 9/10
This game is a grindfest, and what you need for a good grindfest is a good healer with tons of reserves. She doesn't do anything besides heal, but you've got three other people to do the killing so she can focus on keeping them alive to kill.
Hugh Thompson: 1/10
Honestly, I tried using him, got nothing, and stopped doing so. I hear he's ok on the first half of the game?
Anna Zirski: 5/10
She's fast and hits MT with her physical. Has a few useful techs as I recall. But honestly, she's just there to drop items and add in the chip damage when Rolf or Rudo fall short.
Josh Kain: 1/10
Someone I have heard is kinda useful on the second half of the game. Given that I had already settled on my party and levelled up long before his day in the sun arrived, he never got off the bench.
Shir Gold: 1.2/10
She gets you access to the improved Save function. That is all. Granted, this is freaking huge in this game, but you get it, and then you bench her never to be seen again.
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Updating Tonight
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Yes, it took me forever, and yes the next one probably will too, and yes, it's entirely the fault of the person who makes first post using the letter Q after this post...
| Average | STDEVA |
| Rolf Landale | 9.4 | 0.42 |
| Nei | 6.16 | 0.79 |
| Rudolph Steiner | 8 | 1 |
| Amy Sage | 4.2 | 2.77 |
| Hugh Thompson | 2.7 | 0.97 |
| Anna Zirski | 5 | 0 |
| Josh Kain | 4.9 | 2.27 |
| Shir Gold | 1.44 | 0.38 |
Standard Deviation: 2.62
And now onto something vile and evil. Something that was made by hands of demonic forces that you would not believe is made by something. A game...that is made by Ubuisoft...
I mean no offense to Child of Light, to be clear; don't take the line above to mean anything other than Ubisoft is awful.
Child of Light:
Aurora:
Rubella:
Finn:
Norah:
Robert:
Tristis:
Oengus:
Gen:
Golem:
-Gplem is the DLC character, I haven't played the game so I looked it up, and could be mistaking but yeah.
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Child of Light:
Played on Expert mode. Like FFX, the free switching + lots of weakness hitting makes the cast as a whole feel a bit above average, as you can switch in the most useful person for any situation, then switch 'em out when their niche isn't needed.
Aurora: 5/10. Y'know, fewer enemies than you'd expect are vulnerable to Light. On the bright side, the few enemies who are are among the most dangerous enemies in the game, like those wraiths that revive their allies, and her magic boom is okay... if it resolves. Light Ray path really not worth it, the casting times are long enough as is for a marginal damage boost, but her normal attack magic in Starlight is fine. So situationally good.
Rubella: 6/10. Tanky healer, her damage problems are irrelevant since swap in for someone else.
Finn: 7/10. Aurora with better element draw and slightly better damage anyway thanks to Rage of the Capilli. Probably MVP of the regulars? He hits weakness a whole lot. Crippling MP problems in theory, but that just means you use him every 2-out-of-3 battles before a level-up refills his MP. MP is more of an issue in boss fights, but eh, spend the turn to toss an item, then.
Norah: 8/10? Depends on how you grade temps, of course, she isn't around for long. But... she's overlevel and has just generally all-around above average stats. That wouldn't be that special, except she has a great skillset draw. Petrify & Petrify All have a fantastic added effect to her damage, and Lull / Lull All are totally awesome, and it gets even more wacky when stacked with her Haste. CoL is more about enemy debuffs than party buffs due to how often you shuffle your party. Debuffs felt rarely punished (for all that the boss Norah fights does in fact spoil her to a degree with dispelling counterattacks to strip her Haste...). If she was available endgame, I'd definitely have still used her.
Robert: 5/10. Reminds me vaguely of Aht in Radiant Historia in that his gameplay is interesting and uses the game's system, but isn't actually particularly amazing from a strict power level perspective. All of his trees are useful, but he can only get so much. Easy, fast-resolving MT attacks are solid though vs. randoms, Hinder has its place, and the crit rate is amusing enough. I used him a lot, but eh.
Tristis: 3/10. LVP. I practically never used him. Take your choice: a worse beater than Oengus but kind of vanilla & bland, or some buffs that are not in general worth your time. Haste was great in Norah because she could have already set up Lull and thus made her turns cheaper; it's less useful here, especially if your target gets chunked down and needs to switch out. He's not horrible or anything, just why bother.
Oengus: 6/10. More reliable version of Robert for your physical beater. Hits harder when not critting, is tankier, still has some MT physicals, and throw in some random instant death for fun. He's pretty good.
Gen: 6/10. Gen has exactly one purpose: to beeline Paralyze & Paralyze All, then switch in and cast just those. Her poor stats means the rest of her skillset might as well not even exist, but as far as one-trick ponies go, this is a pretty broken one trick. If you're feeling a tad lame, you can probably even do Spellbinding Eye-esque loops where once you resolve one Paralyze All, you throw MP-restoration at her and let her lock down bosses forever. But she's just fine to pop into final dungeon randoms and paralyze 'em and let everyone else clean up, then wait until she's gained a level for an MP-recharge and do it again.
Golem: ?? I did actually get the DLC, but Golem is designed around being recruited very early and joins right after Rubella at ~L12, and I actually bought the DLC & recruited him in the post-game, assuming he'd come with some ME2-style quest. Nope. Hard to judge, but he looked like an Oengus remix, so probably decent.
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Child of Light:
Hard Mode here as well.
Child of Light's a game in which you only have two PCs on the field at once, but you can switch out dead PCs (unlike FFX, which makes a big difference) and dead PCs get full rewards. This means in a hard fight it's better to let most of your PCs absorb hits, die, and get swapped out for free (it's less economical to revive them) until you run out. And on Hard Mode, the hardest fights are indeed balanced around doing this. Also, almost every difficult fight (including bosses) is built around three enemies, and once you can take down one, you've done most of the work towards winning. (Especially due to the fact that the fewer enemies are remaining, the more you can wreck them with your pet firefly.)
Aurora: 5.5/10. Only two PCs can deal magic damage, and there are plenty of enemies who spoil one damage type or the other. This inherently puts mages in higher demand despite their kinda crappy stats. Light's not a wonderful element but it's decent enough and hey nothing resists it specifically at least.
Rubella: 6.5/10. Her healing's far from overwhelming but it can keep pace nicely in the second stage of the battle when one enemy is dead and you're just powering through with your 2-3 remaining PCs. And hey, she's reasonably speedy, and Counter Heal is shockingly good for shifting momentum in your favour, as it's essentially a free action when it kicks in.
Finn: 7/10. See Aurora comments; they pretty much all apply here (good, valuable damage type, mediocre stats). Finn hits a few more weaknesses and is more damaging at base, hence the better score.
Norah: 9/10. Lull All is completely ridiculous and the part of the game I had it was made pretty damn easy. Its action ecomomy is nuts. Against three enemies, it's "trade one Norah turn for 12 enemy turns" which is freaking insane, and enemies lack the offensive punch to overwhelm you while slowed ever. Frankly she doesn't need anything else, but free chance of paralysis on her damage moves and good speed are nice bonuses.
Robert: 5/10. Haha Hinder is so much worse than Lull/Lull All, you might say it's actually balanced or something. And it's still his best move! Also does some damage at least, so yeah, and he's fairly fast. Nothing else especially good about him (his MT physical is too weak to really impress, never mind that I liked ST damage more in this game anyway), but that's good enough for a decent score.
Tristis: 3/10. Since you only have two PCs and you often want to switch them (and/or they'll die), buffs aren't really that great in this game. This makes him clearly the LVP, although he's obviously a functional one.
Oengus: 7.5/10. He has like... 40-50% more HP than the next best PC for much of the game? He can usually take 2-3 extra hits and this is invaluable as every PC represents a punching bag the enemies need to get through. On top of that, he can protect other PCs with Taunt + Defend, and has the best physical damage in the game (both ST and MT), so however you want to use him with those turns he'll do good. MVP of the non-temps, although I can see going with Finn, yeah.
Gen: 4/10. Ehhh wasn't that impressed with paralysis. It's cool and all, but... again, every CoL fight worth noting features three enemies, so ST paralysis being "trade one Gen turn for two enemy turns" isn't really that special when the enemies get 50% more turns than you at base. Admittedly I didn't get Paralyse All, which sounds much better and might give her a higher score. I'd need to look at how practical that is to get quickly, and how good it is. And I'm lazy
Golem: STAB Earthquake and Rock Slide are pretty cool, bad speed and weakness to ground and water are problematic but its typing is so good otherwise in-game that I'm not too bothered- wait, what?
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Aurora: 5/10 feels right. Even though Aurora sports game-worst stat draw, having magic in a game where there are a lot of specialized defensive spoilers -and- where magic deals the highest damage is nothing to scoff at. This said, specializing in a single element is bad mojo even when it's not resisted by anything in-game (Aurora inherently hits far less weaknesses than Finn and this is very noteworthy), and she has both poor base speed and problematic casting times. The physical path is mostly a trap - Aurora can't ever use physicals nearly as well as her magic.
Rubella: 6/10. Early on, Rubella's healing is invaluable and she has oddly decent healer stats - good speed and okay durability, mainly, looking openly solid defensively for the first third of the game or so. Late in the shuffle, I used her mostly for fast cancels, but even so, you'll find a place to slot her MT healing and cheap, fast revival in.
Finn: 7.5/10, a decent portion of this score being propelled by his stellar endgame. Being one of only two mages in a game where hitting magical weaknesses is very important and having game-best damage is very useful as well (Finn scores OHKOs nobody else can, and shutting an enemy down immediately is highly in-demand in CoL). The bad stats keep him balanced, but his elemental variety and Rage of the Capilli alone make Finn a pretty strong contender all game long. In the endgame, where everything is weak to Lightning, going the full Rage of the Capilli path pays off immensely and makes him the clear MVP for that section.
Norah: 9/10. Holy crap, Lull/Lull All is completely nuts. Norah doesn't even need anything else, but she even gets good stats and Haste/Paralyze to make her draw even more appealing. She's pretty much responsible for making the game rather easy for the time you have her.
Robert: 5/10. Hinder/Hinder All is horrendously worse than the Lulls and yet it's quite a good niche to have. Decent speed to pull it off along with acceptable physical damage doesn't hurt either. Too bad it's not -that- great either, and you frankly want your MT damage to be magic in order to bypass the odd evasion or hit weaknesses more easily. Still, not really bad.
Tristis: 3/10. He gets Tumble All more easily and faster than Rubella and he has good speed on the offensive and also great defensive stats. His buffs just aren't too useful, though, given the nature of CoL fights, and he offers little in-between those casts. Not a good way to fill half your active party roster. He probably would be better if the game allowed a third PC in the front row.
Oéngus: 8/10. Quite solid. Very good durability and gets a way to make proactive use of it in a game where you -want- to divert hits for multiple reasons. If that wasn't enough, he has the best physical damage in the party by a far from negligible margin (even if Robert catches up on Strength due to stat-boosting items, he'll stay behind due to Oéngus' superior power on his moves), both ST and MT. He and Finn steal the show at endgame as the MVPs - slap a Lightning elemental gem on Oéngus' weapon and watch them both MT sweep everything in the Sea Palace.
Genovefa: 4.5/10. Beelining for Paralysis All is pretty much how you make Gen useful - that's a way powerful skill if you can get it that far. However, the surroundings just don't impress and she lacks the resources to spam it properly. Bad durability and offense also keep her from looking more attractive as well.
Golem: Can't properly rate him either - I bought his DLC, but I got him in the endgame when he was balanced to be gotten just after Finn. This said, his set looks like a mishmash of Oéngus tanking and Genovefa's time juggling shenanigans, which looks honestly good on paper. But I won't assess that without actual empiric testing.
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Child of Light:
Aurora: Light mage. This is somewhat worthwhile since you only have two mages ever and enemies will routinely mock either physicals or magic and Light is never resisted but at the same time she still feels like the worse of the two. 5.5/10
Rubella: Fast but otherwise not terribly impressive as a healer on any front. Perfectly workable given the limited item draw in the game but since the healing items are also pretty potent I can't say I value it that highly. 5.5/10
Finn: So yeah mage with more than one element to draw upon and he hits harder than Aurora to boot. 7/10
Norah: She is pretty ridiculous for the fairly short time she is around yeah. 8/10.
Robert: Solid on a few fronts but not really standout. 5/10.
Tristis: Revolves around buffing in a game that revolves around party switching and only has two PC slots. To be honest I think I'd rather just use items. 2/10
Oengus: Oh yeah this guy, has HP for days and hits like a truck, even has some means of making use of that durability WHAT A CONCEPT. 7/10
Gen: Paralyze All is good in theory but practically speaking you need to beeline for the the higher level versions to justify using it since it has a very long cast time in a game where everything cancels and it guzzles her bad MP like mad so really you can just say it's actually balanced or something. Past that though she just doesn't have much going for her and the game is almost done by the time she joins to boot. 4/10
Golem: really super annoying as enemies due to their obnoxiously high class defense but i can't really see using them ever because--wait what?
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Child of Light:
Aurora: 6. I felt like hitting Holy weakness was pretty useful myself, and never having your best damage resisted is a perk.
Rubella: 6.5. Decent healing, great interrupter
Finn: 7.5
Norah: 8.5. Awesome skillset and stats.
Robert: 5.5. Yeah, little bit worse than Aurora for me. The speed on some of his techs hurt when they are about slowing the enemy down.
Tristis: 2. Just literally no point. Felt like they split up Norah's skillset between him and Robert, and he clearly got the shaft.
Oengus: 7.5
Gen: 4
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Child of Light:
Aurora: 6. I felt like hitting Holy weakness was pretty useful myself, and never having your best damage resisted is a perk.
Rubella: 6.5. Decent healing, great interrupter
Finn: 7.5
Norah: 8.5. Awesome skillset and stats.
Robert: 5.5. Yeah, little bit worse than Aurora for me. The speed on some of his techs hurt when they are about slowing the enemy down.
Tristis: 2. Just literally no point. Felt like they split up Norah's skillset between him and Robert, and he clearly got the shaft.
Oengus: 7.5
Gen: 4
Looks pretty right.
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Belated, but Phantasy Star II ratings from me. Ratings are based on the Genesis version exclusively, though I'll make a few comments about the remake too.
Rolf Landale: 9/10. He's certainly good, but he doesn't get particularly absurd unless you're overleveled (both of his really good tricks come at higher levels than you should ever reach). His biggest flaw is lack of ITD damage outside of magic, and his TP pool, like all PS2 TP pools, is really quite limited and there are decent stretches of game where Rudo can match or exceed him in ITD without the TP costs. I do agree with the consensus though that Rolf would be in the party even if he wasn't forced. He feels a bit worse in the remake for much of the game - non-ITD damage has gotten slightly worse and his TP pool isn't particularly better; on the other hand, Megid is actually better than in the Genesis version and you probably actually learn it this time around so the endgame payoff is bigger.
Nei: 6/10, pretty much agree with Snow and Meeple. The remake makes her a shitton better all around for the expected reasons, with a better tech selection, better damage, better basically everything (and, of course, endgame-class equipment she didn't have on Genesis), but she still lacks ITD, so I'm not sure how much it really means in the end. And if you *do* do that subquest, you're stuck with her.
Rudolf Steiner: 9/10. High and free ITD damage and gamebest durability. He doesn't do anything else and he doesn't need to. Nothing about him changes in the remake at all, either.
Amy Sage: 2/10. Amy really has a limited shelf life as a PC; her only real use is pre-Neifirst when you don't have the Snow Crown to itemcast the one spell that makes her usable. TP-based healing sucks, game-worst speed, 2nd worst durability, and you don't need MT healing enough to care that she has it. In the remake, she's more useful (I would say "required") in the pre-Snow Crown game, but falls off just about as quickly once it appears, so no real change.
Hugh Thompson: 3/10. Too many stretches of the game where he's useless, and too many stretches where, if he is useful, he's still not more useful than someone else. Plus he has, ultimately, gameworst durability. Savol IS pretty fantastic lategame, but the amount of suffering to get there is kind of not worth it. For some reason, though, Sega saw fit to make him possibly the gamebest PC in the remake (yes, even better than Rolf) with a quick-charging (fastest in the game!) limit break that paralyzes all enemies with extremely high (possibly 100%?) accuracy. And nothing immunes it, not even bosses, so you don't particularly care about all his other deficiencies.
Anna Zirski: 3/10. The good is that her physical attack is MT and does fairly decent damage at base. The bad is that it isn't ITD and her tech list is essentially nonexistent, so when she needs ITD she's reduced to itemcast spam, and her physical isn't *that* much better than itemcasts most of the time. She's an excellent Snow Crown spammer; while she's not actually the best at Snow Crown spamming per se, the other candidate has a host of other flaws that might (okay, probably will) make you consider Anna over her. Notably worse in the remake; as I said on Rolf, non-ITD damage got a bit worse and this hits Anna a lot harder than it hits Rolf, plus her limit break in the remake is the gameworst one.
Josh Kain: 7/10. Rudo that trades some of his free ITD damage and durability for the best magic offense in the game, and lategame it works on everything, so cool. Not much else to say, and the remake doesn't change him in ways I find especially relevant.
Shir Gold: 3/10. Slightly faster than Anna on average, so she's the other Snow Crown spam candidate. Slightly less damage output than Anna - she's always reliant on itemcasts, as opposed to just sometimes being reliant on them. Because her best offense is itemcasts, you can equip her with two emels without worry, giving her surprisingly high durability (only really rivaled by Rolf/Rudo/Kain). I actually prefer using her over Anna, as Anna ultimately ends up being mostly just an itembot and Shir has better durability than her and itembots equally well. Joining later is a legitimate downside though, and she can be annoying if you forget to save before entering Dezolis shops. In a game with less itemcast offense, or where ITD mattered less, she'd be clearly worse than Anna, but PS2 isn't that game. She also gets some credit for the Visiphone. In the remake she's clearly better than Anna (she actually gets weapon upgrades late-game and her limit break is one of the better ones).
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Child of Light:
Aurora: 6. I felt like hitting Holy weakness was pretty useful myself, and never having your best damage resisted is a perk.
Rubella: 6.5. Decent healing, great interrupter
Finn: 7.5
Norah: 8.5. Awesome skillset and stats.
Robert: 5.5. Yeah, little bit worse than Aurora for me. The speed on some of his techs hurt when they are about slowing the enemy down.
Tristis: 2. Just literally no point. Felt like they split up Norah's skillset between him and Robert, and he clearly got the shaft.
Oengus: 7.5
Gen: 4