Author Topic: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!  (Read 129350 times)

Rozalia

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #550 on: December 24, 2010, 03:09:06 AM »
Neither am I, no monsters for me.

Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 8/10 - Omnislash, best character in the game.
Barret Wallace: 6/10 - The midgar parts help his score.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10 - Limits pretty good.
Aeris Gainsborough: 4/10 - I think its in the graveyard place you can steal a rod for her that really upgrades her attack something fierce, with it she is the best pc for a while but thats really all she has. Is temp and sucks up xp.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 4/10 - Sucky limits.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10 - Doom of the living is pretty rad.
Cait Sith: 5/10 - Point for the materia he comes with as it really helps with getting enemy skills.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10 - Sucks badly.
Cid Highwind: 4/10 - Gotten late but isn't that bad.

Write ins:

Young cloud/Zack: 0/10 - Useless, is overkilled by everyone and everything.
Sephiroth: 10/10 - Completely unbeatable overkilling white haired pretty boy killing machine.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #551 on: December 24, 2010, 03:11:56 AM »
Yay! I <3 this topic! I hope we don't lose it all in the forum move!

Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.5 - Consistently good equipment and limit options. Good availability. Good starting materia. Not much to complain about, but nothing really game-breaking in a system like this.
Barret Wallace: 6.5 - Decent availability, durability, and innately Long-Range.
Tifa Lockheart: 7 - Consistently good limit break and availability. Ultimate weapon is pretty awesome for making fun physical builds.
Aeris Gainsborough: 5 - Not a terrible temp! Decent mage stats and the Limits are actually useful early on. Far better as a temp than a DL character.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6 - Multi-hitting limit and decent mage stats?
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6.5 - Good limits and ultimate weapon, decent starting materia, innate Long Range.. but recruitment is kind of obscure (if this wasn't FF7) and she's little frail.
Cait Sith: 4 - Uh... good starting materia?
Vincent Valentine: 3.5 - lol Vincent. Crappy stats and availability and obscure recruitment. Even more obscure final limit break than most.
Cid Highwind: 4 - Just kinda average? No really good starting materia or limits or ultimate weapon, but he's fine?

VySaika

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #552 on: December 24, 2010, 04:45:11 PM »
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10. Gets the job done and well.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Eh, never found him all that great.
Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. Once I got the hang of her limit, she was better.
Aeris Gainsborough: 4/10. Would be a 6 or maybe a 7 if she was around the whole game.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10. My go to guy for magery.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6/10. Cloud + any two of Red/Yuffie/Tifa was my standard lineup for a reason.
Cait Sith: 3/10. Tifa's reels I could do. His slots, not so much.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. I'm kinda leery giving him the same score as Cait Sith, but...I don't quiiiite think he's a 2. EDIT: No, now that I think about it, he IS a 2. And has an argument to be a 1. If you don't know everything about the game, you can fuck yourself over using him. Like using his first limit against a boss that absorbs fire. First time playing, no guide, no internet for FAQing(only got Vincent because a freind told me how), yeah it's entirely reasonable to hit the limit and suddenly watch a boss become nearly unbeatable, unless you kill Vincent off yourself. That's worth calling him worst char in the game.
Cid Highwind: 5/10. Not bad, but not great.

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2/10. Damage they've got. Availability, not so much.
Bird: 3/10. Mobility or something at the very least.
Bomb: 3/10. Early enough at least, and they aren't all that bad.
Bull Demon: 3/10. Sacreds are actually kinda fun, and I admit I'm prolly overrating them here.
Cat: 3/10. Feels on that Bird/Bomb level of usability.
Chocobo: 6/10. Mostly the reds here, of course. Get a good red chicken and you know what? It's actually a fairly competent party member.
Dragon: 5/10. I've gotten some use out of the reds and blues. I wouldn't say they're bad, just not usually worth bothering since FFT has so much better(in human units, of course).
Floating Eye: Abstain/10. Never bothered with them much.
Ghost: 1/10. There's some theoretical use to them I'm sure. I just object as a rule to party members I can't heal.
Goblin: 2/10. Uh...a black gobbo can be decent early? I guess? Enough to save it from a 1 anyway.
Hydra: 6/10. So much better then even the chickens, but availability issues. I'll give 'em a 6 anyway, since when they get going they really take off.
Marlboro: Abstain/10. I don't remember exactly how effective thier shtick is in FFT.
Skeleton: 1/10. See Ghost really.
Squid: 2/10. Eh...equivilent to goblin sounds about right.
Tree: 1/10. Doesn't exist, not that great.
Uribo: 1/10. Doesn't exist, not that great outside of Wildbow physicals.

Warning: FFT monster stuff pulled out of "I just woke up" memory. Also, I haven't played vanilla in awhile and hadn't messed with monsters much in even longer.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 06:17:17 PM by Gatewalker »
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Yoshiken

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #553 on: December 29, 2010, 04:40:29 PM »
Note: I tend to do speedruns, so my FF7 views are probably pretty screwed. (See: Aeris; Yuffie) Also, they're all kinda generic so scores have been spread a little.

Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 6/10. Kinda average limits for the first two levels and not amazing on the stats. If he weren't forced, I wouldn't use him.
Barret Wallace: 3/10. Tanks well enough, but that's about it. Long range weapon is good, bad magic stat is not.
Tifa Lockheart: 4/10. Limits aren't terrible by endgame, but take waaaay too long to get there. Stats aren't terrible but aren't amazing throughout?
Aeris Gainsborough: 6/10. Feels kinda weird giving her this high a score thanks to tempiness, but she's got a ridiculous magic stat and some of the best early-game limits there are. (Also some of the best lategame, but like you ever see those.)
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10. Decent magic and solid limits throughout. Nothing amazing spectacular, but nothing bad.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 4/10. Penalising her for obscurity first. Stupid conversation. Past that, some decent limits, but mostly late ones, and a nice niche in Conformer. Pure lategame, but decent at it.
Cait Sith: 3/10. See Barret, replace long range with decent strength.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. Uhm. What does Vincent do again? Awful Limits and kinda weak/frail.
Cid Highwind: 4/10. See Red, take out the decent magic and make him a little later.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #554 on: January 09, 2011, 04:46:52 AM »
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10.
Barret Wallace: 5/10.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10.
Aeris Gainsborough: 4/10
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10.
Cait Sith: 4/10.
Vincent Valentine: 1.5/10.
Cid Highwind: 5/10.

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 3/10.
Bird: 4/10.
Bomb: 2/10.
Bull Demon: 3/10.
Cat: 3/10.
Chocobo: 6/10.
Dragon: 5/10.
Floating Eye: 5/10.
Ghost: 3/10.
Goblin: 2/10.
Hydra: 7/10.
Marlboro: 0.5/10.
Skeleton: 1/10
Squid: 2/10.  
Tree: 0/10.
Uribo: 0.5/10.  
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 12:42:34 AM by Ciato »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #555 on: January 09, 2011, 04:53:43 AM »
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.5/10. Obviously the best within the system (great limits at all levels but 2, best magic stat) but everyone tends towards generic.
Barret Wallace: 5.5/10. Good strength and HP. Magic and limits could be better.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10. Best limits for ST rape, decent otherwise.
Aeris Gainsborough: 3.5/10. Don't recall her magic being notable outside the Princess Guard, though it's still decent. Otherwise has some issues.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5.5/10. Decent all-rounder with a neat niche limit or two and decent stats everywhere.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10. Great lategame, meh before then, but at least has range.
Cait Sith: 6/10. High HP and magic is good.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10. Okay Vincent kinda sucks.
Cid Highwind: 4/10. Not terrible but generally kinda subpar.

I'm pretty much rating monsters on their final form, most forms before final forms are 1/10 at best (except chocobos and hydras).

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.5/10. Dark Behemoths are okay at their one-dimension, but it's still one dimension.
Bird: 4/10. I randomly fanboy over birds due to the mobility and three decent options (stone, strong physical, ranged magic chipping). Deal with it.
Bomb: 1.5/10. Bad.
Bull Demon: 1.5/10. You want to use a Behemoth if you're considering this. Or heck, various others have comparable, PA, like...
Cat: 3/10. A much less mobile bird with more HP and a bit of range on their stone in exchange for accuracy. Losing trade but they're kinda okay.
Chocobo: 4/10. Reds are very solid ranged snipers. Black has some occasional use as a ferry, too, though terrible stats.
Dragon: 3/10. Okay all-around, nice if you can snag a weakness, but still stuck with all the usual monster limits.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They can fly but not really do much great. Randostatus woo.
Ghost: 3/10. Well drain touch rapes bosses somewhat at least.
Goblin: 1/10. Are awful.
Hydra: 5/10. Hey Tiamats are actually legitly badass, murdering things dead while being tanky and having fly. As good as a monster gets, obviously.
Marlboro: 1.5/10. Bad. Wooo crappy status option.
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Goblin with a ranged option.
Squid: 1.5/10. Mind Blast is so much more useful in enemy hands than yours.
Tree: 0.5/10. Oh god trees. Not a 0 because they're easier to get than mimes.
Uribo: 1.5/10. No mobility or durability, but hey they have some power and status if they reach an enemy alive at least!

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Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #556 on: January 09, 2011, 06:48:22 AM »
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10.
Barret Wallace: 5/10.
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10.
Aeris Gainsborough:
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10.
Cait Sith: 4/10.
Vincent Valentine: 1.5/10.
Cid Highwind: 5/10.

Abstain on FFT monsters, never used one and can't really remember what they did in vanilla besides fail.

Grefter

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #557 on: January 09, 2011, 11:15:04 AM »
Final Fantasy 7: 6/10
Cloud Strife: 8/10  Forced and best of the cast, functional limists pretty much all round, L1s aren't special, but no ones L1s are, from there he gets servicable damage and MT that will probably kill most enemies at the start of the game (Blade Beam is good early game!  Enemies are horrible early game!), L3s are good and Omnislash is pretty much exactly what you want from an L4
Barret Wallace: 4/10  Bad limits.  Variety in them, but bad.  Wants a remake where you don't pick a level of limit to use but have it be a progressive bar that all limits are gradually available on
Tifa Lockheart: 5/10  Does the job, middling limit really.
Aeris Gainsborough: 2/10 You could use her, I don't know why you would as using her just costs you time spent building up the limit of someone you could use.  Temps are bad in games where you get things from raw kill value.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10 His best limit is early on, no real reason to use anything after L2 on him.  Until you get Cosmo Candle you get MT Haste which is pretty awesome early in the game.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5/10 Ranged weapons and a MT L1 healing limit!
Cait Sith: 4/10 His worth is entirely DL wise.
Vincent Valentine: 2/10 Obscure and bad!  Late as well!  I have used him most games I have played but that is because shoot some dudes.
Cid Highwind: 3/10  Get him late.  The hype online for his 3x growth weapon is annoying as fuck because a 2x weapon with more slots is more economical which other characters get.

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters: 0/10
Behemoth: 0/10
Bird: 0/10
Bomb: 0/10
Bull Demon: 0/10
Cat: 0/10
Chocobo: 0/10
Dragon: 0/10
Floating Eye: 0/10
Ghost: 0/10
Goblin: 0/10
Hydra: 0/10
Marlboro: 0/10
Skeleton: 0/10
Squid: 0/10
Tree: 0/10
Uribo: 0/10

In game use gets no credit for poaching and you shouldn't use monsters in regular FFT ever.
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SnowFire

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #558 on: January 10, 2011, 03:11:36 AM »
The differences between characters is pretty minor in FF7, not that this is news, so flat curve.

Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10.  Best fighter, second-best mage, good equips, good limits.
Barret Wallace: 5/10.  Tank, decent back-row damage.  Shame that it's magic that mostly breaks the game.
Tifa Lockheart: 4/10.  Just not all that amazing stat-wise, and I wasn't very good at Slots.
Aeris Gainsborough: 7/10. Best mage, and while she generally stays stuck at level-1 limits due to not being around long enough to get her cheatyface high-level limits, her L1s are great as well.  Penalizing her for leaving early seems silly - given a choice between having her sometimes and having her never, she's awesome enough that you clearly want her around.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.  Red-mage so balanced.  Sure.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6/10.  Good limits, back-row damage for free.
Cait Sith: (no ranking)  I never really used Cait Sith, since he's a giant third wheel with the worst excuse to join of any character and you can only use 3 characters anyway.  Plus meh at Cait's slots.  Good HP looked like, though, aside from the limit annoyance.
Vincent Valentine: 4/10.  Uh.  Back row DEATHBLOW hype on his 255 accuracy weapons?  Anyone?  Yeah, limits being uncontrollable is flavorful but not actually helpful in game.
Cid Highwind: 5/10.  Somewhere inbetween Barret and Red I guess.  Sure.

FFT monsters:
Chocobo: 4/10
Hydra: 4/10
Everything else: DNR

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #559 on: January 10, 2011, 04:48:26 AM »
Quote
Penalizing her for leaving early seems silly - given a choice between having her sometimes and having her never, she's awesome enough that you clearly want her around.

It's not quite that simple - using her means other characters aren't getting as many kills, so you're slowing their limit growth. It's not exactly the end of the world if you do this, but then again, her mag stat advantage isn't that impressive either (welcome to FF7) so I wouldn't say I particularly agree with your last comment there.

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SnowFire

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #560 on: January 10, 2011, 05:27:09 AM »
Oh, I understand the argument, but I don't think it's a big deal.  If FF7 was a game where the difficulty started easy and spiked late and building high level limits was crucial for your success, I'd agree, because using Aeris really would be kill-stealing and making the second half of the game harder than it should.  However, limits aren't THAT important, and more importantly if the difficulty curve bends in any direction, it's that the game gets easier as it goes on.  So I don't think it's worth penalizing Aeris for.

Grefter

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #561 on: January 10, 2011, 08:12:14 AM »
Another character's limits mean far more than than her Magic stat or her L1 limit in a game with strong Cure spells.  Alternately you can use Yuffie who has better L1 options.  Damage option on L1 limit >>>>>>>>>> Seal Evil.

I penalise anyone for leaving when the topic is about in game use, especially where using them is straight up detrimental in anyway for something that matters in game.  If the character isn't there for half 2/3 of the game when there is a character that will be there for the whole game, they have less in game use.

The character may not be useless, but they are less useful than the other options.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #562 on: January 10, 2011, 12:17:28 PM »
Gref/NEB - Doesn't Fury Brand spam helping allies get their second limits for each level (the usage ones - by enabling them to use them more often in one battle) balance that out some what? I think it's even possible to get the usage limits before the kill ones though I'm not 100% sure on that. I think what I did was spam FB until the third ally had all their usage ones (not all in one battle for all three obviously), then switched another ally in and so on.
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Grefter

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #563 on: January 10, 2011, 01:19:49 PM »
Not especially, you have to grind to get overly far unlocked in Disc 1, you might unlock second tier L2s early on two characters if you had been using them exclusively since Midgard, certainly something I would reccomend.  But the later that character would be recruited the less chance you have of them having it (yuffie for example).  For Fury Brand to be something I would really praise to high heavens you would need to be working on L3s by then which is a bit excessive, alternately, she would need to be around for longer.  All that gets you is unlocking things you will get fairly organically anyway at the price of the kills it took Aeris to unlock.  Delay one thing to unlock something else earlier. 

There is certainly things you can go out of your way to do to make her more useful.  It does involves a terrible amount of grinding though.  None of that makes her more useful in regular play though.

Considering there is characters who's second limits on some levels honestly aren't even worth caring about (WHAT UP HAMMER BLOW), it doesn't really help the situation.

The more you grind the more you use you will get out of Fury Brand.

Edit - Oh my I had forgot it was the second L2 she learns as well MT Status healing (Haha), that is not good at all.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 01:21:49 PM by Grefter »
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
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Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #564 on: January 10, 2011, 03:57:44 PM »
Aerith's Limits have a few other things going against them too:

First off, she has the highest HP Threshold for her level 1 limits, meaning she takes longest to get her level 1-2.   Not a big deal, but its there.

Lacking any offensive Limits whatsoever means she lacks any way to do MPless damage if her Limit Gauge is filled until you get Deathblow.  Deathblow is also pretty iffy on characters not Vincent in Disc 1, naturally, especially a character like Aerith who has bad strength, and no ranged weapons.  Umbrella can help offset that, but its not only a pain in the ass to get, it really limits her Materia options; you don't get Edincoat until right before Temple of Ancients, which would be enough to offset it, but also means she can't link any Materia too.  And even then, you get the Seraph Comb only one dungeon after, so if you're using a physical twink, you're using Red XIII, whose got higher strength, a stronger weapon, and said weapon has Materia Slots.  I may seem to be blowing this out of proportion due to how much I say about it, but that's more just being a detail whore; its not a MAJOR point, so don't assume I'm trying to make it seem like such, I apologize.

Grefter covered the problems with The level 2 Limit.  She does, to her credit, need to use Breath of Earth less than other characters need to use their level 2-1's, but this is offset by how BAD Breath of Earth is.  To make matters worse, Breath of Earth can actually be used against you.  The real issue is of course that Breath of Earth is hands down the WORST LIMIT IN THE GAME, and its a level 2-1, so you have to use it, unlike Hammer Blow, Dragon and Climhazzard, which come after semi-competent limits.  Red XIII's the only character stuck with a shitty 2-1 Limit, but I'd take Blood fang over Breath of Earth




Regarding FF7 Magic Differences...
They are, for the most part, minor until late in the game.  They exist, but only in extremes like Cloud vs. Barret.  Aerith's edge over, say, Yuffie or Cait Sith isn't significant until Princess Guard (which has a firm Magic Bonus), and you have such a brief window where that's worth anything.  Cait Sith has HP and quirky limits at least, and Yuffie has a ranged weapon, and late game pay offs, and more conventional limits.  It doesn't help Aerith that Red XIII's Seraph Comb is gotten so early and kicks the crap out of everything on Magic Boosts at the time (its got 14, everything before then has single digits), thereby lowering her edge that much.


You'll note this is because late game, Magic boosts spike from weapons, and the differences start to show off.

When Aerith leaves, for example, disregarding Princess Guard, you're using Wutai Weapons lets say.  The magic boosts are ranging from 10 to 14, 4 points sounds high until you realize its only Tifa and Barret she really has this edge on.  Furthermore, Caith Sith's Silver M-phone is

Frankly, Aerith's best argument for her mage worth if you ask me?
Fairy Tale.  Early gotten 7 Materia slot weapon when you're using things with 4 slots, and offers no penalties on magic relative to other options.  Unfortunately, this edge is somewhat undermined later on when Cait Sith gets the Silver M-phone, which has 8 slots, 14 Magic relative to the Fairy Tale's 8, on a character whose got a solid Magic stat as is, let alone has higher HP, and is a permanent PC.  If you ask me, this is pretty much a deathblow on Aerith's use, unless you want to use as much Materia as possible at once.

Also, talk of Materia slots reminds me that people are forgetting one major advantage Cid has going for him:

Dragoon Lance.  Gotten in Wutai, 66 Power (This is STRONGER than his Mideel weapon, I should note) and 8 Materia Slots.  If there's ever a weapon that would be a "Saving Grace" to a character's use, at least mid game, it'd be that, as far as FF7 goes.

Worth noting that other 8 Materia Slot weapons are generally worse (Cloud's Enhanced Sword has like 43 Power, for reference), or gotten much later like Vincent's Outsider. 
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #565 on: January 10, 2011, 07:30:35 PM »
There is certainly things you can go out of your way to do to make her more useful.

And herein lies the problem.
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SnowFire

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #566 on: January 11, 2011, 02:32:08 AM »
Another character's limits mean far more than than her Magic stat or her L1 limit in a game with strong Cure spells.  Alternately you can use Yuffie who has better L1 options.  Damage option on L1 limit >>>>>>>>>> Seal Evil.

Seal Evil works on bosses like the safe dude in Nibelheim.  I'm pretty willing to hype it.

Quote
I penalise anyone for leaving when the topic is about in game use, especially where using them is straight up detrimental in anyway for something that matters in game.  If the character isn't there for half 2/3 of the game when there is a character that will be there for the whole game, they have less in game use.

The character may not be useless, but they are less useful than the other options.

Lenneth in VP2 for 2/10 rating?  Dunno, like I said, I'd see your point if the kill-stealing was a big deal, and fine, you think limits are important.  But level is pretty autobalanced (people not in the party get what, 80% XP?  It's not much of a penalty), and Meeple already brought up the hype I'd add on why Aeris being a good mage matters - she can equip a zillion materia.  (Which will help later, I suppose, since the materia will keep its levels.)  Aside from the kill-stealing bit, there's really nothing *wrong* with using her - it's not like a Fire Emblem game where she'd be massively stealing XP from people you could use later.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #567 on: January 11, 2011, 05:25:44 AM »
Seal Evil is worth some limited hype, if you ask me (although it's not something I'd trade a 3x physical for, let alone Tifa's 5.25x at psychotic speed); it's Healing Wind that's worthless. Oh yay a limit that mimics Recover-All, because I'm totally not using that already. I guess it has some priority so it can get past boss multi-acting against Jenova-BIRTH and Demons Gate? Maybe. To be quite honest I think Aeris is best played under Sadness anyway, and the best hype for her would centre around how good that status is, which makes limit differences less important.

Idly, I definitely don't think that FF7 is relatively harder when Aeris is around. North Crater is like the only dungeon in the game that doesn't suck. Bosses are a bit more balanced, and I wouldn't hype a major challenge gap overall. That said, I think Aeris' advantages and disadvantages are both pretty minor outside her bad limits.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #568 on: January 11, 2011, 08:43:39 AM »
Honestly I'd peg Demon Wall as the single hardest boss in the game (albeit, Safer would be better if not for the top end summons), for all that without outright grinding Aeris doesn't really shine there anyway (with, L4 limit comes into play, it's shiny.)  That said, my experience is that, unless you're using Barret or Red long term, you don't fall too terribly far behind on limits when using Aeris, so I just juged her on her usefulness while she's around myself.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #569 on: January 12, 2011, 12:37:56 AM »
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10. He's a strong PC with good stats everywhere, good limits and some really awesome materia focused weapons. Can't say no to that combination. Unfortunately, he's stuck in FF7 which means a 7 is the highest it goes.
Barret Wallace: 5/10. Long range adds to the HP, so he tends to be able to absorb punishment. Otherwise, magic is bad, and see Grefter on his limits.
Tifa Lockheart: 6/10. There's some hilarious destructive set ups you can use with Tifa (Powersoul), and her limits are great for ST damage, made better by the fact that she can afford setting a lower limit level to get them faster without losing too much on power.
Aeris Gainsborough: 3/10. She's not horrible, but underwhelming certainly. The magic edge needs to appear much earlier. This kinda got emphasized when I was using her on my class game.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10. Solid stats all around at the cost of some garbage limits. A good trade most of the time. And his early limits aren't terrible - only the later ones really lose steam to everyone else's
Yuffie Kisaragi: 4/10. Yuffie feels like she's good starting out and good late, but the middle portion of the game she just lags horribly. Conformer is an awesome weapon.
Cait Sith: 5/10. Decent. I kinda wish Cait did get a stronger limit since Slots. But as is, Slots isn't *horrible*, and being of a lower level means he gets it more often and its certainly decent enough. Good HP too.
Vincent Valentine: 1/10. Suck. Vincent's only "use" I can think of is that he can overload the damage barrier much earlier than Barret or anyone else. This then allows him to kill anything in a hit because of FF7 pro coding. Otherwise, he has no reason to be used ever.
Cid Highwind: 5/10. Cid's pretty average all things considered. His big selling point are the materia growth weapons (Dragoon Lance, Javelin has probably game best overall growth, Scimitar), which often times is enough for me to consider a spot for him. MT Level 1 limit is worth mentioning too I guess.

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 3/10. Is a super Knight, which means they do that well and kinda suck otherwise.
Bird: 5.5/10. One of the better monster classes. Mobile, can fly and has utility uses (see NEB here)
Bomb: 1.5/10. Pretty bad.
Bull Demon: 1/10. Eeeeeeew. Bull Demons are basically Behemoths with 1 less move and some garbage skills. Even Knight is better.
Cat: 3/10. Blaster's pretty awesome. So is BLOOD SUCK.
Chocobo: 6/10. The best monster not called a Hydra. Mobile, you can ride on them and Choco Meteor is pretty brutal when there's a pack of them.
Dragon: 3/10. See Behemoths. Except you get breaths in exchange for some power.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They at least Fly. Randostatus isn't worth much, but its better than the 1s.
Ghost: 2/10. Well they teleport and some of the touches are pretty good. They're lackluster everywhere else and are made of paper though. And ew relying on undead revival.
Goblin: 1/10. Suck. But at least they're available early
Hydra: 5/10. Would be the best monster if not for the fact that they're available super late. Bonus for being able to be used in conjunction with Reis
Marlboro: 1/10. Pretty unremarkable. Well they WALK ON WATER OMG. Otherwise hohoho crappy status or requires Monster Skill = blargh
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Suck with range.
Squid: 1/10. I remember them having some bizarre gimmick use that wasn't totally worthless. They're also not as bad as Trees.
Tree: 0.5/10. Suck, but at least they don't take 20 hours to get!
Uribo: 1.5/10. Poaching them is worthwhile at least. Otherwise, they have some power, but ew to everything else.

EDIT NOTE: Meeple, I recommend doing WAs next :|. This round of rankings was pretty apathetic to me.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 12:41:00 AM by Tide »
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Taishyr

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #570 on: January 12, 2011, 01:52:07 AM »
lol me giving opinions on FF7. Can't be bothered to care, Cloud 7 Red 6 everyone else 4.5 or something woo minor-feeling stat differences outside of Mag and an ability usable once every ten+ fights on average. (I get why others care! I just... don't. So I won't rank and pollute the averages.)

buuuurp copying Elfboy (w/ revisions)

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.5/10. Dark Behemoths are okay at their one-dimension, but it's still one dimension.
Bird: 4.5/10. I randomly fanboy over birds due to the mobility and three decent options (stone, strong physical, ranged magic chipping). Deal with it x2.
Bomb: 1.5/10. Bad.
Bull Demon: 2/10. You want to use a Behemoth if you're considering this (though Toro irrationally likes Gather Power). Or heck, various others have comparable, PA, like...
Cat: 3.5/10. A much less mobile bird with more HP and a bit of range on their stone in exchange for accuracy. Losing trade but they're kinda okay.
Chocobo: 5.5/10. Reds are very solid ranged snipers. Black has some occasional use as a ferry, too, though terrible stats. Easy to get saves them from below average.
Dragon: 2/10. Okay all-around, nice if you can snag a weakness, but still stuck with all the usual monster limits.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They can fly but not really do much great. Randostatus woo.
Ghost: 3/10. Well drain touch rapes bosses somewhat at least.
Goblin: 1.5/10. Are awful. Touch
Hydra: 2/10. Hey Tiamats are actually legitly badass, murdering things dead while being tanky and having fly. As good as a monster gets, obviously. ...except accessibility. Easily the best monster! But rare as shit unless you know where to go which I'm not feeling charitable about right now.
Marlboro: 1/10. Bad. Wooo crappy status option. Rarer than goblins/skeletons.
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Goblin with a ranged option.
Squid: 1/10. Mind Blast is so much more useful in enemy hands than yours. Much, much more.
Tree: 0.5/10. Oh god trees. Not a 0 because they're easier to get than mimes.
Uribo: 0.5/10. No mobility or durability, but hey they have some power and status if they reach an enemy alive at least! Better than Mime but availability woes.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #571 on: January 15, 2011, 04:09:24 PM »
I do not care much for monsters, hence only doing an FF7 ranking. Mainly based on end-game since that is where most of the time is spent.

FF7:
Cloud Strife: 7/10 He's okay. Strong attacks, good magic, amazing limits. Nonetheless, when in this games mechanics it doesn't mean all that much.
Barret Wallace: 6/10. Long range, good HP, decent attacks. Limits suck up to the 3-2, which if properly twinked can be amazing due to it being multi-hit. Gets another point for being the easier of two characters to get into OHKO-Overflow.
Tifa Lockheart: 3/10 I'm not a fan of goddamn slots.
Aeris Gainsborough: 2/10 Just no. She is decent though if you want to BREAK THE GAME by getting the Midgar Zolom's enemy tech very, very early with her final limit.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 6/10. Single best mid-game character but falls off later on.
Vincent: 1/10 You sir, suck.
Yuffie: 6/10 Conformer is awesome.
Cid: 5.5/10 All around decent character, .5 for having a great final limit but requiring a high HP threshold.
The hell with the rest.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #572 on: January 15, 2011, 04:17:21 PM »
You uh can get that the first time you get to the Chocobo Ranch which is well before you can get her final limit...  She is useful there though, free 50% healing is actually potentially useful there, but almost anyone with a limit turn and Cure materia will do the job.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #573 on: January 15, 2011, 04:46:21 PM »
Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife: 7.5/10.  Yeah, game best PC.  Best overall stats, good weapon selection, and good Limits outside of his Level 2's (and Blade Beam isn't THAT bad).  Problem is, as was said, this is FF7, so there's too much genericness to really get much higher.
Barret Wallace: 5/10.  Mind Blow is a cool limit for someone like Rapps for completely gunning down offense, and he's a good ranged tank.  If only there was more reason to care about that in FF7.  I'm a big undecided on his Ultimate; on one hand, its easy to build, but it comes at the cost of possibly gimping other PCs since you're giving him a lot of the high level Materia.  Its also gotten later than most Ultimates (HAS to be gotten right before Hojo, so its pretty much Disc 3 only.)
Tifa Lockheart: 7/10.  Strong limits, and the only character who can actually run physical twink set ups THAT DON'T SUCK the entire game, let alone using a 4 Slotted Double Growth Weapon, and Master Fist is good if you want actual Materia Slots + Growth, and raw damage, and one of the best Ultimates in the game if you know how to set up around it, due to a Higher Mult and runs off a stat you can keep relatively static (well, when its maxed anyway)
Aeris Gainsborough: 3/10.  If she was a permanent PC, she'd probably be closer to 5/10.  As it stands, using her does hurt your team a little as its that many kills she's stealing from other permanent party members for more limits.  She does make a good mage, not so much cause of her magic (which doesn't hurt), but because of the Fairy Tale as I noted, but that gets undermined later on.  Her later limit hype baffles me cause to get to the first really interesting one (Fury Brand), you're stuck with the SINGLE WORST LIMIT IN THE ENTIRE GAME, and without massive grinding, she's NOT getting Pulse of Life/Planet Protector.  And no, I don't respect her physical with the Umbrella.  Her game worst strength offsets it, and has NO MATERIA SLOTS.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.  Lunatic High is a cool early limit if gotten before Time+All, Seraph Comb makes him a strong physical fighter on Disc 1 WITHOUT compromising his Materia slots much the way the Umbrella does (not to mention on a character who doesn't have Game Worst Strength), gets the first Double Growth weapon in the game I believe, and otherwise a flexible PC, who beyond the Seraph Comb ownage stage, doesn't stand out much.  Well, ok, Stardust Ray is pretty bad ass, but unfortunately, its guarded by BLOOD FANG >_<
Yuffie Kisaragi: 5.5/10.  All Ranged Weapons is cool, Limits are generally good outside of her Level 4, and probably the best overall Ultimate in the game due to how it likes it ignore Multiplier Penalties (I believe it ignores 4x Cut's damage*0.67 per hit factor, so it actually is 4x damage!)
Cait Sith: 5/10.  A better Aeris, in the grand scheme of things.  Silver M-phone = Fairy Tale+, stats with that on basically become "Aeris with more HP", Slots basically gives him Pulse of Life MUCH earlier if you can get timing down, and to top it off?  He's a permanent PC.
Vincent Valentine: 3/10.  Back Row weapons worth something, being one of the only PCs with linked Double Growth slots is neat, and Sniper CR + Deathblow is kind of OK for MPless damage, though doesn't last.  Limits are cool early game, but don't last.  Outsider is a cool weapon at least, though doesn't completely make up for his ass-tacular ultimate.
Cid Highwind: 4.5/10.  People are underselling him a bit, cause I said before, the Dragoon Lance is really bad ass and deserves mention for how early it is.  Though, that and his neat Game Best Growth Weapons are really all he has going for him, as his limits are generic, and doesn't have any real gimmick factors outside of that.

Since its FF7, I can't give anyone lower than a 3, barring maybe Aeris due to her nature, but at the same time, I can't give anyone much higher than a 7 (Cloud got 7.5, yes, but that's cause he's really undeniable game best PC, but not by enough to garner him a full extra point)

Quote
Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth: 2.5/10. Dark Behemoths are okay at their one-dimension, but it's still one dimension.
Bird: 4/10. I randomly fanboy over birds due to the mobility and three decent options (stone, strong physical, ranged magic chipping). Deal with it.
Bomb: 1.5/10. Bad.
Bull Demon: 1.5/10. You want to use a Behemoth if you're considering this. Or heck, various others have comparable, PA, like...
Cat: 3/10. A much less mobile bird with more HP and a bit of range on their stone in exchange for accuracy. Losing trade but they're kinda okay.
Chocobo: 4/10. Reds are very solid ranged snipers. Black has some occasional use as a ferry, too, though terrible stats.
Dragon: 3/10. Okay all-around, nice if you can snag a weakness, but still stuck with all the usual monster limits.
Floating Eye: 2/10. They can fly but not really do much great. Randostatus woo.
Ghost: 3/10. Well drain touch rapes bosses somewhat at least.
Goblin: 1/10. Are awful.
Hydra: 5/10. Hey Tiamats are actually legitly badass, murdering things dead while being tanky and having fly. As good as a monster gets, obviously.
Marlboro: 1.5/10. Bad. Wooo crappy status option.
Skeleton: 1.5/10. Goblin with a ranged option.
Squid: 1.5/10. Mind Blast is so much more useful in enemy hands than yours.
Tree: 0.5/10. Oh god trees. Not a 0 because they're easier to get than mimes.
Uribo: 1.5/10. No mobility or durability, but hey they have some power and status if they reach an enemy alive at least!

I don't do this often, but I pretty much agree with Elfboy, and trust his opinion more than mine on this subject!

----

Regarding Midgar Zolom?  First off, I have to note Grefter that her level 3-2 Limit is also invincibility (Planet Protector), it just doesn't have the "Free Megalixir!" effect Great Gospel has.
BUt more importantly, you can get Beta ASAP without using Aeris.  She's probably best as the 3rd PC there just cause of the extra back up healing, admittedly, but she's not necessary.

To do so, give Barret Elemental + Fire on his Armor, Sadness Status, and for extra insurance, the Talisman (Or whatever +10 Spirit accessory is called); the first two are mandatory, the latter is not.  Obviously, give him Enemy Skill too.  Additionally, don't give him any more Magic Materia than is necessary lest you'll compensate his HP.

Put everyone in back row, have someone NOT Barret cast Poison until Midgar Zolom is poisoned, and use Sense on him once (I believe this makes the Assist function display his HP now in addition to his name when you're targetting); play defensively and let Poison do all the work until he's about 20% of the way til dead.  HIt him once, he'll go into the uncoiled mode.  At this point, its all luck, since if he Ejects Barret, you're screwed, and you need to time things right such that after being hit with Beta, kill him immediately (you'll probably have a Limit ready), or Heal Barret, and wait for Poison to finish him off.

Yeah, its a pain in the ass and can take a while, since there's a luck factor (see the Ejection part), but its certainly doable without her; Healing Wind is an extra insurance policy there, nothing more.
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Grefter

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #574 on: January 15, 2011, 05:06:07 PM »
Pretty much, but 2/3 chance of working when you know what you are doing isn't that bad and you don't even need to go terribly out of your way to do it (don't need to use Barret, pretty much anyone will work to be honest in normal level ranges.  Just have to remember to strip them of unnecessary magic Materia so they don't have -HP multipliers out the arse like you will most of the time in early FF7).  Early Beta is good times.

Also yes Red does get the first double growth weapon.  Magic Comb from the first Fort Condor fight.  Not really that much before Cloud will get Force Stealer, but still noteworthy (because 3 extra slots of double growth is nice).  Only a difference of whatever randoms you get into on the way to and from Junon from the Fort (depending on how attached to a Peace Ring and an Ether you are) and the bubble casting boss fight.
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The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
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