Author Topic: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!  (Read 129364 times)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #125 on: March 22, 2010, 10:48:28 PM »
Final Fantasy 10:

Tidus: 7/10. Haste -is- cool. Problem is he isn't that great otherwise. On the other hand, also fast PC and good for swapping, and he starts getting nuts in the endgame. Solid in the boiling of eggs.
Auron: 3/10. His main niche is covered by others and the stat spread just needs a ton of work. Shit speed and accuracy puts you in the low end of randombusting worth (not that bad in practice, swapping exists, but), and his offense wasn't strong enough to make him a good boss slugger. Not to mention breaks were just too situational.
Rikku: 5/10. Yeah, Use is pretty sparable by other PCs. Speed gets her an extra point, though, like with Tidus. Use -is- a decently cool skillset anyway, though, and I tended to keep my inventories pretty well-stocked.
Wakka: 7.5/10. Status is -excellent- against randoms and he covers both Tidus' randombusting niche and gets a unique one. Against bosses, his overdrives did the trick well enough. Probably the best physicaller, adequate stat spread and awesome skillset to go with it.
Lulu: 7/10. She's an odd case. Lulu's always swinging up and down on the damage averages until the lategame, but hitting elemental weaknesses is pretty huge and she has a unique niche. Lategame's amazing offense spike also comes coupled with an effective durability spike (Phantom Bangle elemental walling+MDef+evade reaches the realm of completely nuts), so she works out. Being slow sucks, but it's more manageable when you can swap her in, and, unlike Auron, she covers things no one else can without massive tapdancing.
Yuna: 10/10. Even before Aeons, she's MVP. Battery healing is godly (in-battle isn't as good, no noteworthy MT, but it works), her stat spread is excellent and the buffs are godly - not to mention she's the third member of the swap-out trifecta of Rikku/Tidus/Yuna, which alone earns her points to me. She -also- gets Lulu's offense+durability spike lategame, which makes things even more interesting. Then you factor in the I win button that is Aeon spamming. Ryu3-like indeed.
Kimhari: 7/10 works for me, as a personal experience thing. Kimahri going through Rikku's early grid then fast-tracking to Yuna's gave me a very much needed backup healer and Al Bhed Potion spammer, and he also benefitted from getting Holy earlier and Curaga even earlier and... yeah, the build works out nicely. Depending on how you fast-track him, he can be very good, unremarkable or worthless, but I was glad he was there given the niche I put him. Very easy to underrate how valuable a full-blown healer is in FFX, and having the backup Yuna skillset was very nice.

Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:

Bors: 7/10. I'm never very fond of Armor Knights (4 initial move eeeeeeeew), but Bors has the right stat spread and is on your side from the beginning. Accuracy is an issue, but his supports are also quite solid and hit the right stats for him (accuracy/offense).
Wendy: 2/10. You know, I wouldn't mind the projectiness very much, since Wendy doesn't start hopelessly behind nor is she late (earlyish midgame isn't too bad a point to start raising a charac. But her stat build is basically -Bors'-. If you're using an Armor Knight at all, you've started building him and he's already past her considerably, and he even has somewhat superior supports. That's just a waste of time.
Barth: 1/10. HE HAS A BIT MORE DEFENSE THAN BORS. And absolutely fails at everything Bors succeeds at. Go away.
Douglas: 1/10. 8 SPEED AT LATEGAME AW YEAH *Flush.*

Wallace: 2/10. Lyn showing doesn't give me a lot of love-related vibes.
Oswin: 7/10. Sure. He's a crutch early and is solid later. Not very enamored with how the offense pans out, but he's worth bothering with and nearly necessary for a while.

Gilliam: 2/10. 3 starting speed? Off that growth? Fuck you.
Amelia: 2/10. Sort of a pain in the ass to raise - and, much like Wendy, you won't get from her anything you wouldn't get from other people who are easier to raise and start out better and earlier.
Duessel: 3/10. Feels far less impressive of a Jeigan than Seth.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 01:49:00 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2010, 01:32:47 AM »
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 8.5/10- Almost always worst starting for Quick hitted haste/hastega.  Gets passable damage with quick hit, but it's pretty late.  Hastega is just that damn good in FFX.
Auron: 6/10- Breaks are pretty broken in some boss fights, but useless in others.  Having 1 of the 2 joke ultimates helps too.
Rikku: 6/10- Al Bhed potions own early/mid game, stealing is decent.  Basically Al Bhed potions though.
Wakka: 5/10- Kills speed units, which early on is a total nuisance, but seemed less useful than Auron/Rikku overall.
Lulu: 3/10- Being slow as shit does NOT help.  Not getting Doublecasted Flare until super late also doesn't help.  Having a shitty overdrive also doesn't help.  She would be 1.5-2 except for her insane evade that works well on a lot of super powerful, but inaccurate enemies.
Yuna: 10/10- Solos game and all that.
Kimhari: 2/10- Purely based on getting E&C so easily!

Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:

Wallace: 1/10- Umm... blows
Oswin: 4/10- Does okay for an armored?

Gilliam: 4/10- I don't find this class terribly useful usually.
Amelia: 3/10- Might be good, but leveling her is a pain.  She is seriously 3x harder to level than Nino via lacking evade and getting 1 shotted by fucking swordsmen.
Duessel: 2/10- Gets a point for being an awesome tank in a level with a ton of enemies.  (After unequipping him of course.)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2010, 04:42:23 AM »
For a change I will rant about something that isn't FE!


I don't understand why Wakka isn't getting more respect. Hastega aside, he's clearly the best fighter. He has the best hit (you virtually have to use him against certain types of randoms due to this, whereas Tidus lacks a niche and Auron/Kimahri both have Pierce; also armoured enemies are usually killable by magic anyway). Wakka also has way more HP (and usually more strength) than Tidus, and way more speed than Auron. Dark/Sleep/Silence are more generally useful than breaks or slow/delay, Sleep is lolhax against anything vulnerable (which includes a BOSS by the way) and dark/silence are game over to any number of one-dimensional enemies; all three of these statuses are great and you don't have enough Skill Spheres to hand them all out to others like candy (not to mention his str/hit combo makes him their best user anyway!). He has the best magic for what that's worth (does matter for Osmose at worst) and the best Overdrives of the fighters by FAR (i.e. over 2x the mults of what Tidus/Auron have generally).

I can kinda see Tidus above him if you think Hastega is just that good (or if you think his small speed advantage is that big a deal), but you're a White Magic Sphere from giving that to someone else (only one before the airship, granted, so there's a fight over it), and Hastega is only relevant/unique to Tidus for a certain length of time. Giving Tidus significant credit for Quick Hit is a classic case of "you're doing it wrong!" because you can and should use Skill/Friend/Teleport Spheres to get that for all of your fighters.

Wakka's also the one of the three Kimahri has the hardest time replacing (not sure why you'd -want- a second Auron but...) because he lacks the hit and overdrives which are such a big part of why Wakka is good.


And if this rant doesn't make it clear I think Auron is immensely overrated. First Strike is a reasonable customise midgame, let alone endgame (when it's certainly far easier than nabbing a celestial), and otherwise he is Wakka with worse everything except for like 5% more HP and Strength.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2010, 04:59:13 AM »
Well... keep in mind that I have all of a point of difference between Wakka and Tidus/Auron, so this is a very subtle distinction.  Anyway.

Ultimately I'm inclined to look at FFX more based on bosses than randoms, because while FFX has a fair whack of randoms and all, 70% or so of enemies are designed to be easily slain by a given party member (Wolves for Tidus (he... usually has higher strength than Wakka for this reason, he OHKOs them and Wakka doesn't, it's just that Wakka jumps out ahead at the end...) Fliers for Wakka, Robots for Rikku, Shelled for Auron, Flans for Lulu, various status whorish things for Aeons.  Okay so Kim doesn't count.), meaning they all have a baseline use against them and no one really stands out, because it boils down to "pull out correct party member, OHKO".  So for bosses, Auron's breaks can hit many of them, Wakka's statuses not so much.  The big bad uber-randoms (the Sand Worm in Bikanel, the giant bird class of enemy, so on) doesn't fall into either catagory, and Wakka does really shine against them, but as I mentioned, I don't recall running into enough of these for it to make up his skillset going to waste against bosses.
The awesomeness of Attack Reels is a point, although I fail at reels as a rule so don't tend to weigh them as a plus >.>
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #129 on: March 24, 2010, 05:03:14 AM »
When I last played through Wakka's attack was also pretty bad for awhile. Later on this evens out and he ends up with a nice combination of better speed than Auron and better damage than Tidus, but around the middle of the game Tidus out damages him and Tidus is on the low end of the damage scale. Personally, I think Lulu isn't getting a lot of respect, but I generally fought lots of fights so her spells were generally up to date.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #130 on: March 24, 2010, 05:10:04 AM »
My own memory is the opposite, that Tidus never beats Wakka in attack except in Besaid and Kilika and Wakka often has rather large leads (note that while they are tied in DL stats, Tidus is relying on +8 Strength from L3/L4 locks, and the end of his grid is very strength-heavy in general which is one reason everyone wants to go there, so... yeah, he really does do some catching up). Certainly I use Wakka to kill all the lizard/wolf types just fine from Mi'ihen on. Now I'm tempted to go through the sphere grids and compare them at all points but that would take too much time. Auron's leads vary from substantial to not but I don't think the gap is ever enough to make up for the speed.

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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #131 on: March 24, 2010, 08:26:47 PM »
Could be because I tend not to use things like Teleport spheres in the main game because they help go out of their way to clone characters, which I find annoying.  This is also why I didn't break out of the 3 main jobs for anyone in FF13 during the main game, not even to get cure/ruin for people.  So Wakka spamming quick hit is meh.

And yes, his 3 statuses are good, but as you mentioned they're useful on A boss.  The breaks work on quite a few bosses if memory serves.  They also win fights on more big bad randoms than the statuses do.  (Again, this is just from my memory of the game, if this isn't true feel free to correct.)

Tidus kills birds fairly easily just like Wakka can 1 shot a lot of the wolf type animals.  Some birds had good enough evade... but most just kind of die.

Finally, Hastega is the best thing in the game that isn't an Aeon by a good margin.  Yes you "could" give it to someone else, but as I mentioned above I hate cloning my characters and it could go to anyone, so it's not benefiting anyone.  (If I gave it to anyone it'd be Rikku because she's fast as hell.)

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #132 on: March 24, 2010, 09:16:01 PM »
Quote
And yes, his 3 statuses are good, but as you mentioned they're useful on A boss.  The breaks work on quite a few bosses if memory serves.  They also win fights on more big bad randoms than the statuses do.  (Again, this is just from my memory of the game, if this isn't true feel free to correct.)

Tidus kills birds fairly easily just like Wakka can 1 shot a lot of the wolf type animals.  Some birds had good enough evade... but most just kind of die.

Finally, Hastega is the best thing in the game that isn't an Aeon by a good margin.  Yes you "could" give it to someone else, but as I mentioned above I hate cloning my characters and it could go to anyone, so it's not benefiting anyone.  (If I gave it to anyone it'd be Rikku because she's fast as hell.)

On Breaks: Off the top of my head, there are only two bosses who you really benefit from Breaking: Sinspawn Gui (Power Break) and Defender X (Armor break). I think NEB's point is that Wakka's status on randoms is much more devastating since you fight more of them compared to bosses and the bosses that are vulnerable and where Breaking is efficient are so few and inbetween that the status just beat out the breaks.

Breaks don't win against big nasty randoms anymore than Wakka's variety of crippling statii, so I'm definitely disagreeing there. Aside from skills, Wakka gets a Stone Touch weapon, so that's 5 types of status he can inflict (POIZN/Blind/Sleep/Silence/Petrify). Auron/Tidus do not unless you forge one from 30 Petrify Grenades IIRC. Just some examples I can think of where Wakka's status trumps Auron's breaks when both are applicable:

Garuda: Clear win for Wakka here. The big guy flies, and even though Breaking works, it has no Defense worth worrying over. Status on the other hand quite clearly disrupts it.

Iron Giants: Wakka can Blind Buster it, causing it to fail miserably since everything it has is attached is attached to Accuracy. Auron can use Armor Break to speed up the battle along with his Piercing weapon. Of note is that Breaks also have a significant recharge time that Wakka's status often do not have. So Blinding it might be a better option.

Adamantoise: Wakka either Blind Busts, or better yet, uses that Stone Touch weapon and OHKO when petrify hits. Auron either requires a Stone Touch weapon to compete or loses completely because Armor Breaking it doesn't get any faster than Stone Touch here.

Also scanning over the bestiary, a lot of randoms that you want to be using physicals on anyway rarely ever have defense that matters. Unless the battle goes on for a while, Magic/Power Break are rarely ever worth utilizing.

On Birds: Tidus can one shot birds yes. My memory is that his strength is marginally better than Wakka's (hence, Tidus is supposed to kill Wolves who usually have a little bit more HP than fliers). However, Tidus' accuracy against even early game fliers is like 40-50%. Wakka is guaranteed to hit, which makes a big difference. IIRC, FFX's hit formula makes it such that even the slightest bit of evade means the target usually has large problems trying to hit. Something lik 5 points of Accuracy = 1% actual hit.

On Hastega: I'm going to have to say Use here >_>. Use has a low recharge rate, and you can use a Chocobo Wing to provide Hastega to the entire party without the 2x recharge rate that comes with normal casting (also saves 30 MP!). Because of that, I wouldn't give Hastega to Rikku myself if I got the choice. Use provides you with a bunch of options. I can understand saying that Rikku isn't necessary good though (since its more Use being win than Rikku being win).
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Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #133 on: March 24, 2010, 09:46:58 PM »
Quote
On Breaks: Off the top of my head, there are only two bosses who you really benefit from Breaking: Sinspawn Gui (Power Break) and Defender X (Armor break). I think NEB's point is that Wakka's status on randoms is much more devastating since you fight more of them compared to bosses and the bosses that are vulnerable and where Breaking is efficient are so few and inbetween that the status just beat out the breaks.

Seymour Omnis is also someone breaks are worthwhile for, providing you aren't just going for "AEON SMASH", and don't have Celestials...and even if you do have Celestials, it still helps boost the damage of Magic as his Magic Defense is still significant enough, not to mention using Celestials on him = you gain no AP!!!!

Also, it is worth noting that Busters only last one turn, so Wakka has to constantly re-apply it, contrast to Breaks which last the entire fight.  The Attack variants, which have less hit rate (though still generally adequate enough) last 3 turns; generally, Busters are only really useful if the enemy has absurd status defense such that the Attacks kind of fail, as otherwise you're constantly using MP to re-apply the status, though Wakka having Osmose makes it not as much of an issue as it could be, but just stating that just going "He has a Buster!" is not entirely remedying the scenario.

that said...

Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7/10.  Haste and Slow are good stuff, Cheer is as well when trying to squeeze out that Overkill, and I do recall him having more strength than Wakka until around Bevelle, which means he's killing wolves (or alternatively, Overkilling them when Wakka cannot.)  Early Counterattack weapons don't hurt either.
Auron: 5/10.  I'm somewhere in the middle, finding Auron decent enough at what he did, but nothing special at the same time.  Though, I do want to note that anti-hyping him for Magic Defense is absurd; he has more than Wakka and Tidus, and he's got more than enough HP to make the lack of MDef trivial (he's one of the people who consistently survives Total Annihilation, for example), and since FF10 is NOT a game where MDef is a factor against hit rate...yeah.  
Rikku: 6/10.  Mix is good stuff, Use is good too, though that's really easy for Kimhari to steal the niche of cause, speed aside, its stat independent, and one of her EARLIER skills.  Gets half a point for having actual usability underwater!
Wakka: 7.5/10.  Yeah, Status is just too good to ignore (I was mostly slamming the oversimplification of the scenario, not so much the status itself), the accuracy cannot be easily replicated and Attack Reels hurts.
Lulu: 6/10.  Nice Powerhouse and good for slaughtering Flans, but not much beyond that.  The fact that its possible to make Yuna more or less steal her exact niche and do it BETTER after a point is a major strike against her.
Yuna: 10/10.  I wanna give her lower, but I can't justify it; Aeons are just too damn good, and without them, she's still a Healer with good buffs, who can make a good Black Mage later on.
Kimhari: 6/10.  Decently flexible, but he never quite felt good enough to justify higher.  Also, crappy overdrives don't really help.


Fire Emblem Armors and Lancers:
Bors: 5/10.  OK as a wall, but found him worthless offensively until he promoted due to Non-Sword Melee weapons sucking ass.  He was much better when promoted, granted.
Wendy: 2/10.  Bors with a shit load more effort required. PASS.
Barth: 3/10. TOTAL WALL!  Good out of the gate at being that, never gets better or something.
Douglas: 1/10.  Cost me so many freaking resets BEFORE joining, then got doubled by Bolting, FAIL.

Wallace: 4/10. Absurd Trump Card in Lyn mode, and even if not promoted, he's still pretty good there.  Later...well, he's kind of meh, though, if you didn't promote him and manage to keep him alive, he's kind of alright.
Oswin: 7/10. Now we're talking!  Tank, Lances don't totally suck in FE7, and is over leveled so especially strong out of the gate.

Gilliam: 3/10.  Good defense early on, not much else.
Amelia: 3/10.  Good potential, pain in the ass to raise.
Duessel: 3/10. Alright when you first get him, but he never gets any better.

Gatrie(9): 4/10.  Gilliam only more useful early on.
Brom(9): 5/10.  Overall better than Gatrie.
Nephenee(9) 7.5/10.  Now we're talking!  Never found her quite as absurd as others, but she certainly was respectable enough.
Devdan: 3/10.  Not too bad, but he's only good for filling holes, and there's better characters for that role.
Tauroneo(9): 4/10.  Alright for what he is, but what he is isn't much.  Resolve is pretty neat though.

Aran: 7/10.  Good tank in a team that DAMN WELL NEEDS ONE.  Also has passable offense due to high strength.
Meg: 3/10.  Feels considerably worse than Aran on all fronts; she doubles things he doesn't eventually, but not sure that's enough.
Tauroneo(10): 4/10.  Dawn Brigade's version of Wallace in Part 1, becomes a generic high level prepromo for Part 3, falls off by a notable amount in Part 4, though is still usable.
Nephenee(10): 8/10. Ok, now here's where she kicked some ass; Swordmaster with a Lance and better defense, pretty much.  This means so much more in this game where doubling is a lot harder than it was in previous games.
Brom(10): 5/10.  Servicable enough tank throughout Part 2 and Part 3, but...that's about it. 
Danved: 4/10.  Pulls his weight in the Crimean Royal Knights while not being a burden, but after those chapters, he feels hard to justify using, especially since he competes with Nephenee and Aran.
Gatrie(10): 8/10.  Why you don't give Generals good speed without compensating somewhere.  Gatrie is a Mighty Glacier ON ROLLER SKATES!!!  Good on pretty much all fronts...except move where he has some issues.  That's actually pretty much his only flaw.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 03:11:48 AM by Meeplelard »
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VySaika

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2010, 03:51:58 PM »
Note on my Wakka rating: I fail miserably at reels type stuff. So yeah, that does get held against him. If it was a system wide thing that all characters used, I wouldn't, since that would be more my problem then anything. But one character requiring a certain type of skill that I'm frankly bad at while others don't? Yeah, gets held against the character. This still leaves him at 6/10, so it's not a huge hit, but it is there.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #135 on: March 26, 2010, 04:38:02 PM »
Reels suck. Enough said.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #136 on: March 26, 2010, 05:08:11 PM »
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 6/10. Speed and hits hard enough to get by. Hasting is nice.
Auron: 7/10. Party's heavy hitter.
Rikku: 2/10. Gotten late and I never found her useful by then.
Wakka: 3/10. Useful for killing fliers but nothing else.
Lulu: 6/10. Walking nuke station.
Yuna: 9.5/10. Gameplay skip button. The half point off is for intangibles, like encouraging less XP going around since it's easier to summon an Aeon right off and have it bash the battles down.
Kimhari: 5/10. Backup.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #137 on: March 28, 2010, 02:48:02 AM »
Final Fantasy 10:
Tidus: 7.45
Auron: 5.80
Rikku: 5.78
Wakka: 6.25
Lulu: 6.13
Yuna: 9.80
Kimahri: 3.83

Fire Emblem Armors and Lance Users (or whatever the fuck I called them):
Bors: 5.40
Wendy: 2.39
Barth: 2.85
Douglas: 1.10

Wallace: 3.12
Oswin: 6.85

Gilliam: 3.82
Amelia: 4.09
Duessel: 4.00
Gatrie(9): 5.00
Brom(9): 4.96
Nephenee(9): 7.81
Devdan: 3.18
Tauroneo(9): 3.92

Aran: 6.80
Meg: 3.60
Tauroneo(10): 5.36
Nephenee(10): 7.50
Brom(10): 4.82
Danved: 3.35
Gatrie(10): 7.32

Highest Rating of this session: Yuna with 9.80
Lowest rating of this session: Douglas with 1.10

Also, you all fail for NOT INDICATING I SPELLED KIMAHRI'S NAME WRONG.  I can't really make good on any threat so I won't make any, but HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY "PLEASE PUBLICIZE ANY FUCK UPS I MAKE"!?!?!?

...moving on in any event...

Super Mario RPG:
Mario:
Mallow:
Geno:
Bowser:
Toadstool:

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott:
Wade:
Geese:
Gonzales:
Bartre(6):
Garret:

Dorcas:
Bartre(7):
Dart:
Hawkeye:
Geitz:

Garcia:
Ross:
Dozla:

Boyd(9):
Mordecai(9):
Muarim(9):
Largo:
Giffca(9):

Nolan:
Muarim(10):
Mordecai(10):
Boyd(10):
Kyza:
Skrimir:
Caineghis:
Giffca(10):

As usual, if any corrections are to be made, be it spelling, characters I've missed, etc. SPEAK UP NO! Note that my title also says "Lions and Tigers" specifically, which is to say, I purposely ignored Cats <_<
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #138 on: March 28, 2010, 03:17:26 AM »
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: Averagish, as befitting his status as... well, The Mario.  Maybe he'd score higher if I were better at timing jumps?  I dunno.  5.5/10
Mallow: Decent early, not so much later on.  4/10
Geno: Geno Boost is kinda silly.  Other stuff is pretty cool as well.  7/10
Bowser: lawl.  3/10
Toadstool: Never had any problems keeping her alive and Group Hug is just silly.  Sure you can go "it's an easy game anyway you don't need it" but that kinda seems like disregarding Ephraim in FE8 simply because offense isn't at all hard to come by there.  So yeah.  9/10

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: A little weak but the overall stat spread is still fairly decent.  Supports are gravy, of course.  FE6 axes, though, and that and FE Clause keeps him to a 3.5/10.  Would help if he started out a bit sturdier.
Wade: 20% speed growth lawl + FE6 axes.  2/10
Geese:  Well, he has a free Brave Axe IIRC.  That's cool, at least.  3.5/10
Gonzales: Strength!  Speed!  Cannot hit the broad side of a barn!  2/10
Bartre(6): Well he could be much worse.  2/10
Garret: lawl.  1/10

Dorcas: oh hey guyz 20% speed growth am I doing it right?  2.5/10
Bartre(7): Meanwhile, he has a base speed of 3.  Makes it bleh to get him up even if the growth there is decent, but still.  3/10
Dart: Well, it's a good thing for him that I don't care about rankings.  Still, that start is kinda weak.  3.5/10
Hawkeye: Could use some more speed.  3/10
Geitz: I guess. 3/10

Garcia: At least he had the option to promote to Hero.  3/10
Ross: Early enough to be kinda worth the trouble of raising.  4/10
Dozla: lawl.  0.5/10
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 05:16:36 AM by Random Consonant »

Talaysen

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #139 on: March 28, 2010, 04:59:06 AM »
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10
Mallow: 5.5/10
Geno: 9/10
Bowser: 8/10
Toadstool: 8.5/10

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott:
Wade:
Geese:
Gonzales:
Bartre(6):
Garret:

Dorcas: 1/10
Bartre(7): 2/10
Dart: 2/10
Hawkeye: 1/10
Geitz: 3/10

Garcia: 3/10
Ross: 1/10
Dozla: 1/10

Boyd(9): 6/10
Mordecai(9): 6/10
Muarim(9): 2/10
Largo: 2/10
Giffca(9): 6/10

Nolan: 7/10
Muarim(10): 5.5/10
Mordecai(10): 6/10
Boyd(10): 7.5/10
Kyza: 2/10
Skrimir: 5.5/10
Caineghis: 8/10
Giffca(10): 7.5/10

Yoshiken

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #140 on: March 28, 2010, 01:35:16 PM »
Again, ignoring other games I don't know, so no SMRPG or FE6-7.

Garcia: 6.5/10. He was decently usable, at least. Nothing amazing, but he worked.
Ross: Abstain, didn't use him.
Dozla: 7.5/10. wait what. Yeah, seriously, I used Dozla to tear shit up for a good part of the game. Only person I had who could survive a Valter critical, and easily destroyed both him and Caellach, etc. Trailed off later on when enemies started making the most of his poor defences.

Boyd(9): 8.5/10. Ouch. I've found he tends to take a little effort to keep alive due to defences, and his defences let him down -a little- lategame (not as much as the alternative, mind >.>) but he TEARS SHIT UP. Simple as that. Boyd goes in front of an enemy, the enemy dies.
Mordecai(9): Abstain, never used.
Muarim(9): 8.5/10. RNG-blessed? Probably. Muarim was a freaking tank. Left him with the Demi Band and he still didn't take damage, and was generally useful for movement range, if nothing else. Tearing enemies apart up until the final stage or two helps.
Largo: 3/10. hahaha Largo. Defences are too low for his HP to mean anything, and he got killed within minutes of using him. Add in lategame in a game with lots of options, and Largo SUCKS.
Giffca(9): 6/10. Laguz Royal. Seeing as they're last stage only, 6/10 is the max I'll give. And all of them will probably get it. >.>

Nolan: 9/10. Okay, yeah. This guy is a lifesaver in the entire DB section, and is damn amazing past that. Definitely one of the best in RD.
Muarim(10): Abstain, never used him.
Mordecai(10): Abstain, same again.
Boyd(10): Abstain again...
Kyza: And again...
Skrimir: 8.5/10. Okay, finally! Skrimir hahaha yeah. Do I really need to comment here? He's like Giffca was in 9, but with much more availability.
Caineghis: 7/10. Loses 3 points for availability!
Giffca(10): Abstain. As obvious as it probably is, not gonna just assume he tears shit up.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #141 on: March 28, 2010, 02:02:57 PM »
Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 3/10
Wade: 2/10
Geese: 4/10
Gonzales: 6/10 - Needs Lilina support to be any good though.
Bartre(6): 2/10
Garret: 1.5/10

Dorcas: 3.5/10 - Pretty solid on Lyn mode, terrible elsewhere.
Bartre(7): 3.5/10 - Weak start, but not awful.
Dart: 7/10 - Don't hold promotion cost against him much, and once he hits his stride he's a monster.
Hawkeye: 2/10
Geitz: 3/10

Garcia: 4/10 - Wishes he was doubling.
Ross: 6/10 - Easy to raise up due to his Hatchet being awesome, and pretty solid once he catches up. Can work in any class.
Dozla: 2.5/10 - A point or two faster than Garcia, a few points less damaging.

Boyd(9): 8/10 - If he was mounted he'd be a ten, and he's still almost always my number one killer. Good out of the gate, and only picks up steam.
Mordecai(9): 4/10 - Powerful, but FE9 Laguz.
Muarim(9): 5/10 - Gets a point over Mordy for speed.
Largo: 3/10 - Not a total detriment if you use him, I guess?
Giffca(9): 7.5/10 - Well he's pretty awesome on that last one!

Nolan: 7/10 - Immensely useful for DB. Usable past that, and Tarvos is pretty awesome.
Muarim(10): Abs.
Mordecai(10): Abs.
Boyd(10): 6/10 - Nolan without the early useful.
Kyza: 3/10
Skrimir: 8/10 - FE10 Laguz can be awesome when used right, and Skrimir just shreds things.
Caineghis: 8/10 - An utter monster, but that missing availability sucks two points out.
Giffca(10): 7/10 - More powerful than Skrim, but not nearly as available.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #142 on: March 28, 2010, 06:22:29 PM »
Dorcas, Bartre(7), Dart, Hawkeye, Geitz: Uh 3/10 or something.  I have Hector, I don't care, you guys are all inaccurate and suck and I didn't bother with using any of you for more than a map or so.

Garcia: 5/10.  Garcia was fine as a token axeman for weapon triangle threat diversity.  Slow in the DL, but he was fast enough to generally double, or at least avoid being doubled himself, for me (good RNG?).
Ross: 5/10.  Garcia but with slightly better stats in exchange for annoyance and coddling while training him up.  He was the only FE8 character I sent to his death - Garcia said that he'd given up fighting because he had to be a father or something.  I merely removed the distraction so that Garcia could better focus himself on the art of war, and better yet swear himself to vengeance against the Bad Guys who somehow were able to sneak up on Ross.
Dozla: 2/10.  Not unusable but perhaps the worst character in FE8?  Glass jaw is not good here.

Boyd(9): 8.5/10?  I feel bad for not giving a 9 but I forget what I gave Ike and Ike is in some ways better than Boyd.  Boyd topped my kill list anyway, he 2HKOs basically every random in the game (and doubles so it's really a OHKO) and has decent speed and godlike HP.  Awesome.  FE9 is also the game of "toss +15 accuracy on all your weapons cheap" so axe users don't face their normal accuracy problems.
Mordecai(9): 3/10?  Can be a useful tank but transforming late in the battle is a horrible idea, and getting doubled while in human form is a fast way to die.
Muarim(9): 4/10?  Didn't care.
Largo: 3/10 whatever.
Giffca(9): ...didn't use.  Seems objectively worse than your other two options, though, due to movement disadvantage, so I can't see him getting that high a score even if he himself is all right.  
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 07:38:28 PM by SnowFire »

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #143 on: March 28, 2010, 06:41:02 PM »
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10. Alright.
Mallow: 5/10. Alright.
Geno: 7/10. I 'unno.
Bowser: 3/10. Not great.
Toadstool: 7/10

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Dorcas: 4/10
Bartre(7): 3/10
Dart: 5/10
Hawkeye: 5/10
Geitz: ---

Garcia: 3/10
Ross: 6/10
Dozla: 2/10

Boyd(9): 7/10
Mordecai(9): 5/10
Muarim(9): 6/10
Largo: ---
Giffca(9): 5/10

Nolan: 8.5/10
Muarim(10): 4/10
Mordecai(10): 5/10
Boyd(10): 3/10
Kyza: 4/10
Skrimir: 6/10
Caineghis: 8.5/10
Giffca(10): 6/10
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 08:53:42 PM by Ciato »
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #144 on: March 28, 2010, 06:52:13 PM »
Yoshi: Not sure if your Dozla got the RNG blessing of the gods or whatever, but normally, Level 4 Dozla (which is generous for that point if anything) is doubled by Valter with 3 points of speed to spare and faces a crit rate in which either hit will kill him. He's one of the worst possible choices there, you should be using a PC who has enough luck to null his crit.

He's better against Caellach (still needs to gain speed to avoid being doubled) but nothing special since his normal advantage against bosses (crits) is gone.

Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10. He's kinda like Zero, has generally a bit more ST damage in all situations. However, his gap is less pronounced.
Mallow: 4.5/10. Quite good between when he gets his first weapon and Toadstool starts coming into her own around Chapter 6. He heals and is reasonably durable, has early MT, etc.
Geno: 8/10. Geno Boost, speed, and the best MT.
Bowser: 3.5/10. Like Mallow but with less time to shine. He has a chapter and a half of being very durable and fairly damaging, then falls off into "why use him".
Toadstool: 8.5/10. Group Hug is that good. It's the -reason- lategame SMRPG is that easy. Go look at the stat topic, plenty of later bosses do "lol I MT 2-3HKO you and add sleep/fear" and Toadstool + status immunity is all "yeah whatever". Less impressive in randoms, though a good healing battery at worst.

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 5/10. He'd be quite good if not for FE6 axes, reasonable stats and supports.
Wade: 2/10. Hahha. There's always a horrid-growth axeman.
Geese: 3/10. Just why use him.
Gonzales: 4/10. Bleh, I hate him, just the opposite of the type of FE PC I like using (fuck the accuracy) but I can't objectively score him lower.
Bartre(6): 5/10. Solid enough, the Atk is monstrous enough to make up for not doubling and he's reasonably accurate and durable; decent bow rank lets him one-shot wyverns, too.
Garret: 1/10. lulz. Way to take a +30% class crit boost and uniformly fail with it, FE6 berserkers.

Dorcas: 3/10. Decent early. Worst long-term choice ever.
Bartre(7): 3/10. Decent later, worst short-term choice ever. (okay this part isn't true, but...)
Dart: 1/10. Hey guys you COULD promote me or you could sell my promotion item (assuming you use a FAQ and even get it!) and use nothing but Killer/Reaver/Silvers for the rest of the game. Doesn't make my offence look so good, does it? Also his durability/hit blow and I -do- factor in rankings.
Hawkeye: 3/10. He's okay, could use some speed.
Geitz: 4/10. Aw yeah best axeman in the game, has some speed and a bow rank.

Garcia: 3/10. Dorcas + Hero but less good early.
Ross: 4/10. He catches up enough, although the first few chapters are bad. Just... the speed really needs to be better once caught up. Oh well, at least it's better than...
Dozla: 1/10. He starts with Eirika's speed 20 levels higher and 12 chapters later. His hit and durability are bad too. Then he promptly doesn't get better ever.

Boyd(9): 8/10. His speed and durability could both be better, although both are serviceable, and he's a Speedwing away from being gamebest offence by far (and decent without it unless he gets screwed), plus some decent supports.
Mordecai(9): 5.5/10. Rather good for a while, but does fall off.
Muarim(9): 6.5/10. Rather good until endgame where forged Silver makes him look bad.
Largo: 4/10. It's Dozla with good skill and speed! Still needs more defences, but hey.
Giffca(9): Disagree with Snowfire, I think he's probably the best laguz royal? (Much more damage to Ashnard, MORE move just doesn't fly.) Can see the argument for Tibarn though. Still, abstain; not around enough.

Nolan: 8.5/10. I think. He's not quite 9 material, but one of the best in the part of the game that most needs good PCs, then stays good forever, great speed growth and earth-infused durability.
Muarim(10): 3/10. A few good maps then falls off.
Mordecai(10): 3.5/10. I guess he's probably pretty good with a Speedwing, but otherwise, he's a wall in the part of the game that already has good walls and needs them least (open fields) so whatever at that.
Boyd(10): 2.5/10. His speed fails, he'll never double ever if not RNG blessed and his base durability/power are also unimpressive. He's a project character, but one that needs to get RNG luck and is the inferior endgame axeman even so. More projecty than your DB equivalent? That kinda fails.
Kyza: 2/10. Yeah, having used him, he's pretty bad. Not offensively so, but...
Skrimir: 3.5/10. One good map and then kinda sucks since he doesn't double any more ever. 26 speed really? Again, Speedwings would probably go a long way, here... I dunno. But is that really worth it when at endgame you get...
Caineghis: 9/10. He's around enough to matter now. And he's the best while he is. Giving Skrimir a higher score because of 2 maps more availability is something I find baffling.
Giffca(10): 8/10. Not as good as Cain but still damn good.

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Yoshiken

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #145 on: March 28, 2010, 07:01:47 PM »
Yoshi: Not sure if your Dozla got the RNG blessing of the gods or whatever, but normally, Level 4 Dozla (which is generous for that point if anything) is doubled by Valter with 3 points of speed to spare and faces a crit rate in which either hit will kill him. He's one of the worst possible choices there, you should be using a PC who has enough luck to null his crit.

He's better against Caellach (still needs to gain speed to avoid being doubled) but nothing special since his normal advantage against bosses (crits) is gone.

...hunh, really? I think my Dozla was about Lv 3-4 there, yeah, and he... doubled Valter, would've killed if he'd not got a crit but managed it first try anyways. He didn't kill Caellach in one turn, but just didn't attack, tanked Caellach's turn and then killed with his own.

Also, changing the score on Giffca. Despite how good he is, didn't really consider the fact that, uhh, he sucks compared to the alternatives. >_>

Magetastic

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #146 on: March 28, 2010, 07:11:00 PM »
Yoshi: Not sure if your Dozla got the RNG blessing of the gods or whatever, but normally, Level 4 Dozla (which is generous for that point if anything) is doubled by Valter with 3 points of speed to spare and faces a crit rate in which either hit will kill him. He's one of the worst possible choices there, you should be using a PC who has enough luck to null his crit.

He's better against Caellach (still needs to gain speed to avoid being doubled) but nothing special since his normal advantage against bosses (crits) is gone.

...hunh, really? I think my Dozla was about Lv 3-4 there, yeah, and he... doubled Valter, would've killed if he'd not got a crit but managed it first try anyways. He didn't kill Caellach in one turn, but just didn't attack, tanked Caellach's turn and then killed with his own.

Also, changing the score on Giffca. Despite how good he is, didn't really consider the fact that, uhh, he sucks compared to the alternatives. >_>

Reading that through, that, uhh, shouldn't actually be possible. Earliest you can get Dozla is after he's already promoted. If he's doubled with 3 to spare, there is no possible way for him to double Valter. Not in 3 levels. Blessing of the gods would get him to, uhh, barely being doubled. Are you sure you're not remembering someone else, there, Yoshi? >_>;

Also, Meeple: You said "NO" instead of "NOW" when telling people to correct you. Just thought I'd let ya' know.

Anyway, on to rankings.

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Dorcas: 5/10 Meh
Bartre(7): 2/10 liability, but, uhh... HP?
Dart: 5/10 Meh
Hawkeye: 5/10 Good fallback option for a while
Geitz: -/10 Didn't use, ever.

Garcia: 4/10 HP~
Ross: 8/10 Decent option for either a Hero or a Warrior. (And Berserkers suck ASS)
Dozla: 2/10 HP. But a Berserker.

Boyd(9): 8/10 Kill kill kill kill~
Mordecai(9): -/10 Didn't use
Muarim(9): -/10 Didn't use
Largo: 5/10 HP~ And can kill
Giffca(9): -/10 Didn't use

Nolan: 5/10 Meh (Will admit that I have a very lackluster memory of him because I promoted him too early)
Muarim(10): 7/10 Solid
Mordecai(10): 7/10 Solid
Boyd(10): 6/10 Meh+
Kyza: -/10 Didn't use
Skrimir: 8/10 Rawr~
Caineghis: -/10 Didn't use
Giffca(10): -/10 Didn't use
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
* +superaway shakes head.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #147 on: March 28, 2010, 08:29:43 PM »
Super Mario RPG:
Mario: 6/10.
Mallow: 5/10.
Geno: 7/10.
Bowser: 4/10.
Toadstool: 8/10.

Fire Emblem Lions and Tigers and Axemenoh my!
Lott: 4/10.
Wade: 3/10.
Geese: 3/10.
Gonzales: 2/10.  Considering how many hostile recruits are on that map?  Yeah, Gonzales falls by the wayside.
Bartre(6): 3/10.
Garret: 2/10.  I didn't... get him OR kill him, that I remember.  That suggests he's a pain in the butt to recruit, so flush.

Dorcas: 3/10.
Bartre(7): 3/10.
Dart: 8/10.  Need to counter some of the hate going around.
Hawkeye: 3/10.
Geitz: 3/10.

Garcia: 3/10.
Ross: 5/10.  Needs more hit though.
Dozla: 2/10.

Boyd(9): 5/10.
Mordecai(9): 2/10.
Muarim(9): 2/10.
Largo: 2/10.
Giffca(9): 8/10.  The bestest Royal.

Nolan: 6/10.  Never reached greatness levels for me.  Maybe I underused him.
Muarim(10): 3/10.
Mordecai(10): 2/10.
Boyd(10): 3/10.
Kyza: 2/10.
Skrimir: 3/10.
Caineghis: 9/10.  Hax.
Giffca(10): 3/10.  Objectively fine but... why mess with a standard Laguz when you can use the Royals?  You already have Herons and Ena who should be getting your Laguz Stones so... yeah.
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Yoshiken

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #148 on: March 28, 2010, 08:53:33 PM »
On the Dozla thing... Uhh. Wow. Was definitely him. Maybe he was a higher level than I remember, then, but it was definitely him doubling and killing Valter. I remember using him specifically because he was the only character I had who had the HP to survive a Valter turn, even if he critted.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #149 on: March 28, 2010, 08:57:31 PM »
He would have to be Level 13 with 100% speed growth to double Valter. (His speed growth is 40%.) This is possible if you powergrinded Dolza or fed him speedwings or something. So this happening isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it would have to be at a much higher level.
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