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Author Topic: Proving Grounds Godlike, Unicorn Overlord  (Read 74 times)

Pyro

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Proving Grounds Godlike, Unicorn Overlord
« on: May 16, 2024, 02:42:06 AM »
Alain: Fast and damaging, really tanky, immune to status, self-healing.
Amalia: Supreme damage.
Dinah: Evasion on top of evasion. Literally.


Alain   vs.   Rubicant
Alain   vs.   Marcello (DQ8)
Alain   vs.   Sierra
Alain   vs.   Emily
Alain   vs.   Celes
Alain   vs.   Yuri
Alain   vs.   Nailah
      
Alain   vs.   Lashiec
Alain   vs.   Teepo
Alain   vs.   Jessica
Alain   vs.   Alena
Alain   vs.   Chaz
Alain   vs.   Artea
Alain   vs.   Eirika
      
      
      
Amalia   vs.   Rubicant
Amalia   vs.   Marcello (DQ8)
Amalia   vs.   Sierra
Amalia   vs.   Emily
Amalia   vs.   Celes
Amalia   vs.   Yuri
Amalia   vs.   Nailah
      
Amalia   vs.   Lashiec
Amalia   vs.   Teepo
Amalia   vs.   Jessica
Amalia   vs.   Alena
Amalia   vs.   Chaz
Amalia   vs.   Artea
Amalia   vs.   Eirika
      
      
      
Dinah   vs.   Rubicant
Dinah   vs.   Marcello (DQ8)
Dinah   vs.   Sierra
Dinah   vs.   Emily
Dinah   vs.   Celes
Dinah   vs.   Yuri
Dinah   vs.   Nailah
      
Dinah   vs.   Lashiec
Dinah   vs.   Teepo
Dinah   vs.   Jessica
Dinah   vs.   Alena
Dinah   vs.   Chaz
Dinah   vs.   Artea
Dinah   vs.   Eirika

Pyro

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Re: Proving Grounds Godlike, Unicorn Overlord
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2024, 05:09:06 AM »
Alain   vs.   Rubicant: Toasty.
Alain   vs.   Marcello (DQ8): Lean Edge keeps him afloat.
Alain   vs.   Sierra: ID immune. 2HKOs.
Alain   vs.   Emily: Evasion. ITD damage.
Alain   vs.   Celes: Vanish. Isn't OHKOd.
Alain   vs.   Yuri: Isn't OHKOd and does his thing.
Alain   vs.   Nailah: Gotta figure FE10 super skills.
     
Alain   vs.   Lashiec: 75% magic damage... Alain's mdef and HP are great though, and he gets 4 actions to Lashiec's 3 and has the evade and speed...
Alain   vs.   Teepo: not physicals.
Alain   vs.   Jessica: Speed damage and durability.
Alain   vs.   Alena
Alain   vs.   Chaz: Lean Edge keeps him in and threatens a KO into Spinning Edge.
Alain   vs.   Artea: Artea's IPs might matter. Although a crit threatens him.
Alain   vs.   Eirika: Her evade is a problem but Cavalry Slayer is mean here and Noble Guard is really mean. His speed is very high if that staves off a double.
     
     
Amalia   vs.   Rubicant: magic. Not OHKOd.
Amalia   vs.   Marcello (DQ8): magic.
Amalia   vs.   Sierra
Amalia   vs.   Emily: ignores evade.
Amalia   vs.   Celes: vanish first
Amalia   vs.   Yuri: magic assault?
Amalia   vs.   Nailah: assuming Nailah doesn't one round.
     
Amalia   vs.   Lashiec
Amalia   vs.   Teepo
Amalia   vs.   Jessica
Amalia   vs.   Alena
Amalia   vs.   Chaz: ID
Amalia   vs.   Artea: OHKOs.
Amalia   vs.   Eirika
     
     
     
Dinah   vs.   Rubicant: Rubicant can't punch through can he.
Dinah   vs.   Marcello (DQ8): Marcello has the actions to punch through. But can he.
Dinah   vs.   Sierra
Dinah   vs.   Emily:
Dinah   vs.   Celes: Vanish.
Dinah   vs.   Yuri: I think
Dinah   vs.   Nailah: she didn't have Nihil
     
Dinah   vs.   Lashiec
Dinah   vs.   Teepo: Triple Strike is... Inaccurate. But he has a lot of time....
Dinah   vs.   Jessica
Dinah   vs.   Alena: 2 hits but Dinah is poisoning her to death first.
Dinah   vs.   Chaz
Dinah   vs.   Artea
Dinah   vs.   Eirika: counters! Dinah can let poison do the work here though and keep her evasion up.

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Godlike, Unicorn Overlord
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2024, 08:57:19 AM »
I don't know if I agree with how the stat topic handles the damage/AP issue but I do know that I have no particular desire to argue about it one way or another, especially when I'm doing this while half-asleep.

Anyways I'm taking the harsh approach and using the damage average that fully factors in the cav vs infantry damage bonus.  Yes, accounting for cavalry vs infantry makes Alain more disgusting in a duel than he already is.

Alain vs. Rubicant - Rubicante might not OHKO but it so doesn't matter.
Alain vs. Sierra - Lord, even if he didn't immune ID he'd just OHKO to me taking the stat topic at face value.
Alain vs. Emily
Alain vs. Celes - Partial ITD on Spinning Edge helps but I don't think it's enough off the top of my head.  Could be mistaken though.
Alain vs. Yuri - Huh, yeah, Yuri barely survives a Spinning Edge even after the cav bonus, and I'd bet he can scam his way out from there.
Alain vs. Nailah - idk, Alain's hell to take down with defense subject physicals, even ones that are occasionally backed by triple laguz royal strength stats, and "occasionally" in this case means sub-25%.  The counters though... (also, would a transformed laguz count as normal infantry anyways)
Alain vs. Lashiec - So Lashiec 4HKOs Alain.  That's not gonna work out too great in the face of Lean Edge, I'd think.
Alain vs. Alena - Alena so doesn't crit fast enough to pull this out.
Alain vs. Chaz - Alain really likes having that sword huh.
Alain vs. Artea - Spinning Edge is horrible murder to me which saves me from having to consider any potential IP hype.
Alain vs. Eirika - Honestly Eirika's just not that impressive in this matchup
     
Amalia vs. Rubicant
Amalia vs. Sierra
Amalia vs. Emily
Amalia vs. Celes
Amalia vs. Yuri
Amalia vs. Nailah
Amalia vs. Lashiec - Think he just scrapes an OHKO here, even if he doesn't it so doesn't matter.
Amalia vs. Alena
Amalia vs. Chaz
Amalia vs. Artea - Either I take Amalia's abysmal initative as first turn speed and Artea instadoubles her off the bat under my revised SD assumptions and 2HKOs, or I take Unicorn Overlord speed as average forever and Artea dies to the autocrit.  More inclined to take the former view considering that low initiative is, in fact, not all that great to have ingame.
Amalia vs. Eirika
     
Dinah vs. Rubicant
Dinah vs. Sierra
Dinah vs. Emily - Probably.  She just gets so many swings.
Dinah vs. Celes - Vanish.
Dinah vs. Yuri
Dinah vs. Nailah -
Dinah vs. Lashiec
Dinah vs. Alena
Dinah vs. Chaz - Explode checks Mental, not evasion, and I'm 99% certain pure status screws over thieves and werefoxes as much as anyone else.
Dinah vs. Artea - Um Artea immunes poison with the armor that gives him MP healing and so Dinah is pretty much incapable of killing him ever.  Also see above note on only seeing initiative mattering on the first turn, the evade game will get overwhelmed eventually even if it takes a century.  Like the best you can argue for Dinah here is that she'd would win on a does more damage tiebreak but that requires taking views that I don't.
Dinah vs. Eirika -
« Last Edit: May 18, 2024, 12:13:09 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Godlike, Unicorn Overlord
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2024, 09:15:27 PM »
Some notes on my UO views:
-I'd take enemy atk as higher than 60, myself. Not sure exactly where. For today's voting I'll just exponentiate the durability figures by 0.75 and call it a day.
-I probably reduce the potency of first-strike moves in some way... even excluding War Horn as largely DL-useless, about 36% of the cast has one (I may have miscounted) but only 20% of the cast can use them in-game. One option is just to cut the potency of first strike moves to reflect this.
-The most "fair" way to take speed is probably literal first turn but then no doubleturning until the next "combat" which is in 3 turns. I might just half the SD effect instead though, so each SD is 12.5%. Works for today.
-Cavalry do +41% to infantry (there's a pretty strong case to take this higher... open to arguments), this is factored into the average. Average needs to be lowered a little from the cut to initiative damage. Call it 44 today.

Alain: ~283/~191 (still nuts), about 129% speed, 83% damage or 47% with the draining.

Alain   vs.   Rubicant: As mentioned, Alain might take a hit without resisting fire, which is impressive for a PC. Doesn't matter.
Alain   vs.   Marcello (DQ8): Marcello does 41%, Alain can use Lean Edge to buy himself an extra turn. Two Spinning Edges and two Lean Edges is 260%, DQ8 boss HP gives me headaches but no way Marcello hits that to me.
Alain   vs.   Sierra: I think Alain barely misses the OHKO to me (takes it if we increase the cav bonus) but... that means Stealer of Souls actually doesn't fully heal Sierra so he kills her next turn.
Alain   vs.   Emily: Emily... 3HKOs before Noble Guard which definitely slows Emily down a bit, even though the ITD is there. Lean Edge probably not worth it against Emily evade, Spinning Edge 2HKOs as always but after accuracy it's probably 3HKO. So Alain wins on turn 4, by which time Emily has gotten two shots of full damage and two which are resited to varying degrees. That's probably enough. Close!
Alain   vs.   Celes: Vanish.
Alain   vs.   Yuri: Yuri gets rolling which is probably too much.
Alain   vs.   Nailah: For what it's worth I would definitely consider Nailah infantry, bestrals are after all. That said Savage dealing +72 ITD damage is lethal with any RD kill point and she's getting it off unless Alain wins in two turns (80% over three Nailah doubles).
     
Alain   vs.   Lashiec: Lashiec 3HKOs to me, but Alain also has a 3:2 so he gets off the draining he needs to stay afloat. Reinforce might be scary there at the end if Alain couldn't blitz with Spinning Edge, but y'know he can.
Alain   vs.   Teepo: Teepo only 4HKOs even below half HP so Lean Edge eats him.
Alain   vs.   Jessica: Really think so.
Alain   vs.   Alena: NES Alena might have the faintest glimmer of a chance but I don't vote on that these days.
Alain   vs.   Chaz: Yeah Lean Edge heal-locks unless Chaz opts for shields, so he does that. The issue is that Chaz only does 29% with Megid anyway and needs to stop to heal every two turns... yeah, not close.
Alain   vs.   Artea: Again, heal-lock with Lean Edge.
Alain   vs.   Eirika: Eirika is the only dueller in the field Alain doesn't hit weakness on! That said... yeah I think Alain is fast enough to stop her from doubling with the Rapier. He can try to Cavalry Slayer her to seal off one attack and one counter, but Spinning Edge might be better anyway just to ignore counters outright. His physical durability with Noble Guard probably takes things.
     
Amalia: 209/79 durability (Heavy Guard spam makes her pdur silly), 77% speed, Omega Shatter is 96% (145% with Hawk Eye), Heavy Slash is 73%, Penetrate can backend damage a bit but doesn't really add any.
     
Amalia   vs.   Rubicant: Oh dear. No.
Amalia   vs.   Marcello (DQ8): Amalia would need to OHKO here. Have to imagine I see Marcello as better than 145.
Amalia   vs.   Sierra: Death.
Amalia   vs.   Emily: Hawk Eye.
Amalia   vs.   Celes: Am I willing to see Vanish > Truestrike? I think that's right. Truestrike would trump Image, but not Vanish. Imp renders it moot anyway.
Amalia   vs.   Yuri: Pretty sure Yuri is tanky enough for this after buffing.
Amalia   vs.   Nailah: Can tank a Hawk Eye Omega Shatter. Amalia probably shouldn't even attack without Hawk Eye, so like Alain, she's dying to Savage before she gets a chance at a second combat. I guess you could subject Savage's damage boost to Heavy Guard, I definitely don't though.
     
Amalia   vs.   Lashiec: Lashiec just misses the OHKO to me. Their speed is very similar! Best case scenario could even give Amalia two turns, and she still has no chance.
Amalia   vs.   Teepo: 3HKOs, isn't 2HKOed.
Amalia   vs.   Jessica: Magic Burst.
Amalia   vs.   Alena: Alena is the Heavy version of Nailah, this isn't good enough.
Amalia   vs.   Chaz: Explode.
Amalia   vs.   Artea: Artea has a 3-2 to me, but not an instant double.
Amalia   vs.   Eirika: Or maybe Eirika is the Heavy version of Nailah. Same story.
     
     
Dinah has 45/52 durability and 123% speed. Good evade too, on top of being able to dodge most things that would hit her. 19% damage, or spend 2 AP for 14% damage and poison (with does 30% target MHP). Weakness Hunter can pile an extra 43% but that's 2 valuable PP. Taking her base evade at 70% due to some combination of considering more accurate enemies, difficulty mode differences, and and a slight side-eye to scarves.

Dinah   vs.   Rubicant: Rubicant has two toys here which help: Fire 2 counters and a doubleact physical. So that's about 9 attacks per combat. If he lands 4 of them he does real damage. He's got a 27% chance of doing that, and 2HKOs Dinah if he does. (He also has a 10% chance of getting 5, which would mean an immediate win.) Dinah might prefer to do less damage, if she only attacks once she only faces 7 attacks, and at that point the chance of Rubi breaking through is 13%... okay, that's not worth it. Anyway Rubicant needs 6 combats to have >50% chance of breaking through the evade twice. Does Dinah kill in six combats? That's (probably) 3.42 PCHP damage she does. I... have memories of calculating Rubicant's HP as just over 3.5. But I haven't yet considered doubleturns, and she should get a few of those in there, and that's probably just enough, for me. Very close match.
Dinah   vs.   Marcello (DQ8): With only six actions, Marcello only has a 7% chance to land at least four hits, and again he needs to do so twice. Not happening.
Dinah   vs.   Sierra: I... think? I want to say S2 had magic repel enemies (really hope I'm not conflating with S3 here, but I can remember S2's animation for it in my mind) and Finger of Death / perhaps pure status in general didn't work on them. ... for that matter, does Dinah's evade catch pure status in UO?
Dinah   vs.   Emily: Okay, eight hits this time, i.e. 24 per combat, that's way too many. Emily will need to sneak a few through but she will, and in the meantime she has evade of her own and poison immunity to get her the time she needs.
Dinah   vs.   Celes: Nope.
Dinah   vs.   Yuri: Think some of his stuff had crazy hit numbers, and since he immunes poison and is tanky Dinah can't kill him ever.
Dinah   vs.   Nailah: Nailah is just too accurate. She's taking Dinah's evade down to like 30. At this point she is probably hitting by her third attack, and OHKOs when she does. That said... Venom Thrust doesn't trigger counters, so if Dinah lands that and three poison ticks she wins? ... no, because she does less than 10% with Venom Thrust (and spending PP on Weakness Hunter makes her die a turn sooner, not to mentino probably DOES trigger a counter).
     
Dinah   vs.   Lashiec: Thunder Halberd is ITE.
Dinah   vs.   Teepo: Uh. Triple Blow may punch through... it's the same odds as Rubicant. Except it doesn't even 2HKO so never mind, that's not working. Teepo needs Howling to turn off evasion. I have no idea if it does or not, and the match hinges on that entirely, so abstain.
Dinah   vs.   Jessica: If evade doesn't stop Kasnooze, I suppose...
Dinah   vs.   Alena: Maybe if Alena OHKOed, but needing the second hit is too much.
Dinah   vs.   Chaz: Explode.
Dinah   vs.   Artea: See Random, Artea immunes poison and can't die ever. Since he gets more turns (at least to me), sooner or later he'll land the hit he needs, although yes it might take a very, very, very long time.
Dinah   vs.   Eirika: Unlike Nailah, Eirika probably isn't doubling here, and certainly isn't with the only weapon which OHKOs.


Alain 9-5. A pretty clear Godlike, borderliners only beat him if they spoil him.
Dinah 5-8. I feel like this field is a little light on ITE so she might actually be worse than Amalia, I dunno. Weird dueller, definitely belongs in Heavy though.
Amalia 4-10. Bad speed and magic durability coupled with lots of holes in her immunity list mean she's probably not Godlike, but she is certainly a good Heavy with that big turn 1 ITE damage and physical tanking.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:07:35 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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