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Author Topic: RPGVO 2023 Round 1: Crossfire on Crossfire Violence with a side of Peppor  (Read 707 times)

074

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Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT)
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN)
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. T260G (SaGa)
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1)


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2)
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2)
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX)


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN)
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2)
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA)
Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10)
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)


The round will end at 11:00 PM CST, Sunday 8/20/23.  Please have your votes locked in by then.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Cmdr_King

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Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT)- Magus is not fond of buffing-based strategies.
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN)- Arceus can dodge a lot of Killer's skillset with Ghost form, but after that the question of how SH's Seal status interacts with Pokemon comes up and... basically everything Arceus has scans as a skill the way SH reckons things.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. T260G (SaGa)- even if you suppose DQ crits bypass all of T2's defense, she still has answers to all of that.
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1)- p...robably outlasts him?  I dunno.


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2)
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2)
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX)


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN)
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2)
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA)
Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10)- probably anyway.
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)- I think
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Tide

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Dang, I missed noms.

Godlike:
Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT) - Dragon Dance + anything physical after is probably too much here. Magus can hit weakness with Lightning 2 but eeeeeh
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN) - Killer 3 wins I suspect due to Seal/ID and can double into Malice Dirge - which is NE so I wouldn't see Ghost catching it. Killer 2...probably loses because he doesn't have those tools. Since I vote Killer 2 over 3...


Heavy:
Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2) - Calamity Jane needs to do 80%+ damage to even make any headway on Alicia and I kind of doubt that happens.
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) - Gross mismatch part 1
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2) - Gross mismatch part 2
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX) - Opens with Power Break, then wins the ensuing slugest. P4G Kanji has Phys Resistance + 12% regen which helps a lot, but I don't vote that form. EDIT - As further discussed in chat today - even if you do, Zombiestrike creates problems for Kanji. Losing 10-12% HP at the start of every turn adds up quickly, to the point he doesn't have enough time to recast Mataru on himself...though depending on the averages used, he can come pretty close.


Middle:
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - Ana has an argument to win this with status (Euthanasia apparently), but I just don't see it. Not only is the skill one which you will pretty much never see in-game (like most of Ana's skills), but then it also has to hit right status and you need to disregard or otherwise see it bypassing Byleth's good Charm stat + any Magic Evade credit. In a game where most of randoms basically explode to a twinked Yuri or boosted Blanca T3, I find it very hard to give it much credit. Byleth has her own set of calls needed, but the 2HKO is easier to buy IMO.
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2) - I'm not very inclined to give Aht any credit in a match where her opponent CAN theoretically move.
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2) - 10% MHP damage and 4HKO damage is NOT how you beat Elena


Light:
Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA) - JFC...
Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5) - For my reference: Selphie does 465 to an alleged 1633 average. However, BER SER KER has a1.62 Pdur, resulting in a 6HKO. BER SER KER on his part does 2210 damage to a 2670 average. Selphie is roughly 0.927 average HP, which is all that really matters because Vit in FF8 doesn't really show unless you get it to super high numbers. On paper, this looks like it's Selphie's to lose. Berserker will knock her to Limit Range, she then casts Full Cure - repeat until Berserker dies.

HOWEVER, there are two factors here that create some room for debate. The first is that unlike other FF8 Limits, Slot requires Selphie to dig for Full Cure. Even though it is a preferred Magic, there is a chance Selphie just low rolls and never gets it. Yes, I am aware Selphie can also roll other match winning magic (such as Death) but they're all random and not preferred, so the chances of rolling those aren't high enough for me to consider. Second, Berserker does roughly 35% to Selphie per swing. This means after two swings, Selphie is at 30% - enough to reach limit status BUT it is a low crisis limit. What this means is that if she is limit fishing, it will take longer for her to get one PLUS the fact that she then has to look for the right spell to cast. The longer this match goes on for, the greater the chance there is for Selphie to low roll and either never see a limit or die before getting the necessary magic. It also gives Berserker more time to hit his desired series of ranges to completely dodge a limit due to his damage fluctuation.

Also for consideration - Berserker is roughly 85% average speed (but has the benefit of not requiring manual input, so maybe slightly faster). Selphie is basically average speed. So Selphie 5-6s Berserker. The double turn is likely decisive because it comes at a point where even if you see Selphie low rolling her 2nd limit, she essentially has way more time there to fish for what she needs + Berserker being at a lower HP gives her more choice for winning spell combos. In practice however, Berserker won't hit the perfect 35% damage each time on Selphie and as noted above, there are certain ranges where it benefits him more. He wins if he can consistently land the low 3HKO or the high 2HKO, but there are other combos of swings that work and some swings that can put Selphie in deep caution. I assume these offset, but YMMV.

I haven't mentioned the DOOM AXE yet, and that is something else that throws a wrench into things. The BMG states the ID chance is 33%, so if that is correct, then Berserker likely wins this since Selphie needs 6 shots and Berseker will trade 1 for 1 until Turn 5, meaning he gets a few more shots for the proc. OTOH, NEB notes in the stat topic that the ID is on average Turn 5. Might be factoring in weapon accuracy (and axes being inaccurate), in which case, Selphie still wins because she goes first. Going to go with what I suspect is the one with a bit more consistent game plan, but yeah, this can go either way.

Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10) - Gross mismatch part 3
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - Very strong kneejerk. Poshul isn't great but Lelei is hot garbo
« Last Edit: August 19, 2023, 06:31:08 AM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
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<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

074

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Godlike:

Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1) - Going to input on this one as such.  Knowing how FF1 AI basically forces a cycling of abilities and spells, I'm going to operate under the assumption that Chaos is essentially forced to go through every single one of his non-basic-attack abilities or spells before reusing them.  Hard patterns do exist, mind.  To elaborate on these here:

NES:
- Attack (25% rate)
- Magic (50% rate): Blizzaga->Thundaga->Slowra->Curaja->Firaga->Blizzara->Haste->Flare
- Special (25% rate): Quake->Blaze->Tsunami->Cyclone

GBA:
- Attack (40% rate)
- Magic (20% rate): Blizzaga->Slowra->Thundaga->Curaja->Haste->Firaga->Blizzara->Flare
- Special (40% rate): Blaze->Tsunami->Cyclone->Quake

PR: No loops here, just percentage rates, but it's worth noting that basic attack is weighted at 40%, Blizzara at 10%, -agas at a summed 15%, elemental specials at another summed 15%, with Curaja and Quake at 2%.  ...PR could use a stat topic for its differences but I'm getting off-topic.  Point is, even less respect for Curaja here.

NES version is cleancut.  Chaz 2HKOs with Megid (which does not run into Chaos' extensive set of resists) and is sufficiently above average in speed to go first, this is the basis of my vote

GBA...is trickier because Chaos has 20,000 HP in-game.  I'd probably put him about 2x PCHP or so as a kneejerk without better references, He'd run out too quickly with Megid to be honest.  But since physicals are useless against Chaos' high defense, Chaz *can* opt for a double-shield approach anyway - Reflect Shields should boost his own survivability against the barrage of elemental spells and pseudomagic he'd face, and Nathu does ~75% of Megid's damage for half the cost.  I'd say Chaz still has a valid means to win here if he paces himself for endurance rather than burst.

PR: needs a stat topic.

Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2) - Maya runs into one of the ever-annoying ever-present infinite healers.
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2) - Either Miang possessed the roller, or Random.org has something against my nominations.
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX) - Break off of First Strike, then outslugs.  Simple enough.


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN) - Juno's got counters and one shot of healing, but I'm reading here that Red's damage may be hard enough to hit 2HKO?  Gets evade off of Lunatic High, though...  hm.  Leaning Red, could be convinced otherwise.
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - Euthanasia exists, Nightmare exists.  You know how little I respect FE against status.
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2) - there's arguments that maybe i should've nominated Richard instead but he wouldn't do any better, honestly.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

SnowFire

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Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2)
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
This is like the best possible matchup for Levin - Alexia has a little evade at least, but turn cancelling vs. the slow is a thing.
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2)
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX)
P4G Kanji.  Physical halving + regen is just too good.  I guess Auron could equip a Piercing weapon if that's seen as breaking the physical resistance, but that means giving up the Masamune which hurts a lot.  I'm not sold about Auron's counters helping out that much - Kanji will be using Power Charge -> Primal Force twice, so he only ever faces a single counterattack.

Middle:

Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Even if you hype Charm as status resistance, 100% hit rate by default is kinda problematic.
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2)
I'm fine with hyping SH2 characters as having a move command in Defend, but...  SH2 characters also usually move when attacking, right?  Maybe not spellcasting, though...  if Blanca stays still during Red Comet, then I suppose "move to the back rank then never move again" might be a valid strategy.  Otherwise, since it's a slow MP depletion fest, Aht would actually have time to drop traps on 8/9 squares and let Blanca's natural movement blow himself up.
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2)

Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA)
Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Not hyping Doom Axe.  That said, you COULD hype Berserker's auto-attack as putting more pressure than usual on Selphie to find Full Cure ASAP....  but eh, deadly triple magic is fine too, so.
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10)
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)

Magic Fanatic

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Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT) - ORAS is legal and means MegaQuaza has a singular path to victory if he uses Rest/Dragon Ascent/Dragon Dance/Dragon Pulse.
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN) - 100% ID, or Seal completely screwing the PokeGod over.  Take your pick.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. T260G (SaGa) - T260G almost OHKOs.  Leopold definitely ORKOs back, I think.  Assuming he can double-crit on command.


Heavy:

Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX) - Initiative Power Break and Armor with SOS Protect + Lightningproof makes Kanji very, very sad.  I actually had to look up P4G Kanji after Snowfire brought it up, but...  I'm not sure it changes the math much, since Tarukaja falls off after the third turn, and Primal Force is chewing through a lot of Kanji's HP as it is.  Auron doesn't start out scary, but he gets scary later, so as long as his damage can keep up with the regen after halving, then it should be manageable.  I'd have to math it out sometime else...  And also question why the P4G topic has a weapon on Kanji that pretends his Ziodyne can be worthwhile, instead of something for pure physical damage.  I dunno, I'm almost leaning abstain at this point, but I'll go with my gut for now.


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN) - I shouldn't actually be voting on this because no Soul Nomad, but...  Based on what I could interpret, Red XIII could basically be seen as a Phynx, which is completely neutral to Juno.  After that...  They both 3HKO each other, but Red's faster.  Energize can make Red have to take four turns to kill Juno, but Red is still faster and that takes up Juno's turn anyway, so it's a wash.
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - Euthanasia or Nightmare, take your pick.


Light:

Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5) - I'm willing to hype Death Sickle. Okay, so new info.  The 33% Proc chance of Death can actually fail, so I'm going to toss that out.  I'd then instantly give it to Selphie, but uh...  The randomness of Axe swings does mean that Berserker could just blow past a Limit, and they're getting at least two chances at that before Selphie swings can overwhelm them.  Selphie can also get knocked into an unfavorable limit range that gives her garbage even after fishing for the limit, meaning she loses a lot of momentum for turn order.  Flipside, the randomness of Axe damage could also throw Selphie into a good Crisis tier, and she just ends the match there with some fishing.  This is literally a match of, "Time to roll the dice," and this time I flipped a coin and it landed Berserker anyway, so...  That.
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - At least Poshul has bulk and average damage.  Lelei doesn't even come close to having that.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2023, 09:55:19 PM by Magic Fanatic »

Random Consonant

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Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT) - Sounds about right.
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN) - Also sounds about right.
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1) - This is probably right to me.


Heavy:

Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) - Um.
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2) - Um.
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX) - Power Break.


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN) - So on the one hand Juno counters.  On the other hand, seeing limit bars starting at half filled means there's no avoiding Stardust Ray.
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - e: see below, Byleth doubles with Sublime Creator Sword and 2RKOs that way, 32% magic evade means Ana likely has problems getting a 50% winrate off of the one cast of Euthanasia she gets.
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2)
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2)


Light:

Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5) - Probably right, axes not having good accuracy is likely the deciding factor here.
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10)
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 02:00:37 AM by Random Consonant »

Pyro

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Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT)
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN)
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. T260G (SaGa): Leopold's Crits are like, normal Dragon Quest Crits? I'm not sure how to frame this but they don't seem like the sort of thing that should be double-able at will.
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1): Megid?


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2): NEB indicated Calamity Jane was ~88% PCHP damage? Alicia can Chip her, then knock her into range, then try and finish her?
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2) Lilka was made to eat this alive.
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX)


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN): Stardust Ray triggers I think.
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H): Byleth should be a Swordmaster instead of Enlightend One? She goes from like 31 -> 36 AS, and isn't much different besides that. Quad'ing a Brave Blade with +10 Crit, the high evade, and everything else is going to weigh this in her favor.
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2): Sleep Trap -> Push Attack? It is possible he goes first and heal-locks? Messy.
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA)
Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10)
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)


The round will end at 11:00 PM CST, Sunday 8/20/23.  Please have your votes locked in by then.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 04:05:22 PM by Pyro »

Random Consonant

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More like 26 -> 29 AS, brave weapons are very heavy and swordmaster isn't even the highest speed class.  29 AS may be enough anyways, but I'm not brave or productive enough to look at what the AS average looks like if everyone goes into their fastest class...

At any rate it doesn't matter anyways since I overlooked Sublime Creator Sword like a dummy which Byleth does double with regardless and 2RKOs Ana so yeah.  The lesson here is don't submit votes at 4 AM.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 02:22:41 AM by Random Consonant »

Nephrite

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odlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT)
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN)
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. T260G (SaGa)
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1)


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2)
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2)
Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX)


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN)
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Aht (RH) vs. Blanca (SH2)
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA)
Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10) - I am not giving Super the satisfaction of voting on this
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)

Dark Holy Elf

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Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) vs. Magus (CT): Dragon Claw being ITD magic helps cut down on counters... although Ray can probably just tank everything else with Rest.
Killer (SH3) vs. Arceus (PKMN): Depends entirely on how much Seal catches. I really don't know. "Not Judgement, yes everything else" is probably the most true to SH3. In that case Arceus opens with Cosmic Power to get up to 2.6 durability. Killer uses Seal, recharges super rapidly, and they trade turns from there basically? Judgement probably kills in three hits. Killer given three offensive turns... surely isn't killing given only the last is a double, he'd need to average 65% per and there's no way his magic damage does that much. If Judgement dealt physical damage Red Crest could do its thing, but as is, nope.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. T260G (SaGa): T2 really does fear Leo's crits rather a lot, they do 85% to her default setup! Granted, basic physicals only do 10%. T2 regens 8% and dodges a quarter of the time, but... still probably dead after Leopold's third turn? GRANTED. T2 is much faster, and wins on her fourth turn (V-MAX, three attacks). Does she have a 4-3? Yeah, surely, to me. Good fight though! A good reminder about how much T2 fears ITD.
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Chaos (FF1): NES Chaos for me. Chaz just goes first and 2HKOs, Chaos is weirdly easy when you get past his tricks.


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2): Calamity Jane hits like a truck, so much that Alicia probably can't healspam through it, but she doesn't have to. She can healspam through high HP, then attack, tank one, and attack again. The original numbers in the stat thread would give this to Alicia, but these days I'm more likely to use the numbers Pyro posted? Yeah sure.
Levin Brenton (WAXF) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF): Good news for Alexia: she goes first. Second good news: evasion slows Cancel Strike. Bad news: Levin doubleturns forever and even landing only one Cancel Strike out of two already more than cancels all her turns.
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2): The spoiling very much goes in one direction here, and it's ugly.


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) vs. Juno (SN): Red goes first and does a bunch of damage, Juno counters. Juno can now buff her attack, but I think she juuust misses a 2HKO with her initial counter + buffed counter. (It KOs average almost on the dot to me, but Red is slightly above.) This gives Red a limit and he immediately gets another turn and wins.
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) vs. Byleth (FE3H): I don't see Euthanasia doing something useful turn 1 against Byleth's stats. Byleth meanwhile 2RKOs with Sublime Creator Sword.
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2): Fafnir seems pretty bad against healers.


Light:

Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5): Too many things can go wrong for Berserker here, I feel. Her damage is too random and there's a lot of time between her turns (in marked contrast to Snowfire's comments, "auto" attacks get no benefit in FF5 since FF5 freezes whenever the ATB gauge of a PC fills up... except berserker, sorry!). The one thing which might save her is that, looking at the BMG, Selphie's limit at low crisis is really quite bad, but there's a reasonable chance she gets some higher crisis. Stat topic doesn't list damage for Fire/Ice/Bolt which is actually rather important here but I still think this is right. Close though.
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10): Heather is generally good in the division, have to think she handles Peppor.
Poshul (CC) vs. Lelei (S5): Lelei has 5HKO damage, Poshul surely has a 4HKO at worst (solid 3HKO to average, Lelei isn't THAT tanky).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 05:02:24 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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SnowFire

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Kanji (P4) vs. Auron (FFX) - Initiative Power Break and Armor with SOS Protect + Lightningproof makes Kanji very, very sad.  I actually had to look up P4G Kanji after Snowfire brought it up, but...  I'm not sure it changes the math much, since Tarukaja falls off after the third turn, and Primal Force is chewing through a lot of Kanji's HP as it is.  Auron doesn't start out scary, but he gets scary later, so as long as his damage can keep up with the regen after halving, then it should be manageable.  I'd have to math it out sometime else...  And also question why the P4G topic has a weapon on Kanji that pretends his Ziodyne can be worthwhile, instead of something for pure physical damage.  I dunno, I'm almost leaning abstain at this point, but I'll go with my gut for now.

Thanks for the reminder - I think my backup damage listed for Kanji is too low, meaning he deals 263 with Tarukaja'd Ziodyne rather than 210.  Irrelevant this match (especially if you allow the universal Lightningproof armor), of course.  That said, what do you propose Kanji use instead?  Persona physical skills don't care about weapon stats, so weapon stats only matter for regular attacks, All-Out Attacks (DL-irrelevant), and any other affixes on them like the Lightning damage boost.  Really normally it's just option 3 since improving basic attacks just totally doesn't matter.  I know I kept Yu equipped with the Sharp Shovel from Kanji's dungeon throughout the entire damn game because it offers Auto-Tarukaja and Who Cares what else.

It's a fair point that Tarukaja does run out after 3 turns, but Kanji's physical resistance + 10% per-turn regen (I'm not a fan of letting Persona characters shuffle skills by match, but I do think his best overall dueling package includes Regenerate 2 & 3) + Auron's pokey speed gives him a LOT of time here.  Auron has 1.30 PCHP and halves damage thanks to Power Break (gonna presume Fast Heal doesn't help here if allowed, given that there's no duration).  If we use the harsher 3-turn average for Kanji, the killpoint is 893, so 893 * 1.30 * 2 = 2320 P4G damage that needs to be inflicted.  A little more than that due to Auron's slightly above average defense, actually.  But two full-blast Tarukaja'd, Power Charged Primal Forces are 2,340 damage, so...  possibly enough, although this does mean taking turn 3 off to recast Matarukaja.  And while Auron is only slightly above average def, that might be enough to require another poke.  And also Kanji can't be so low that he doesn't have sufficient HP to cast the final Primal Force. 

So Kanji needs 6 actions to kill: [PC, Primal Force, Attack / Ziodyne / something, Matarukaja, PC, Primal Force.]. 
Auron gets a free initiative turn, but has horrific speed afterward.  0.68*600 = 408, so Auron gets 4+1 turns...  although this might be tweaked a bit by Power Break / Armor Break having slow recharge times.  (But OTOH, some usage of slow recharge actions are baked in the damage average?).  Power Break, Armor Break, spam 3x basic attacks I guess, although replace the final attack with a Tornado if Auron can build into an Overdrive?  (Usual "no eject" reminder here.)  2750 + 2750 + (7300 *1.2) + (7600 *1.2) + [Either 11000 * 1.2 if OD, or 7600 * 1.2 if not].  The low end of this is 32,860 damage (or even less if Auron is denied his 5th turn).  High end with an OD is 36,940.  (EDIT: +1 counterattack in the middle, too, so a little higher than this.)

The naive FFX killpoint (which ignores stuff like Aeon summoning) is 19,250, so the above is 1.71 PCHP (lower estimate) or 1.92 PCHP (higher estimate).  Problem is Kanji has 1.29 PCHP and damage halving, meaning Auron needs to deal 2.58 PCHP to win ignoring Regenerate.  If Kanji's default passives are seen to be also regenerating 10% HP a round (which is really like 20% HP thanks to the physical damage halving), Auron is even further away from winning here.  Can't speak to P4 PS2, but still definitely think P4G Kanji takes this fight.  (And of course in the normal DL, Auron would probably still win anyway thanks to Eject!  Well, it'd be an OD calculation, but a moot point here.)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 04:45:09 PM by SnowFire »

DragonKnight Zero

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Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2): I'd forgotten which fight was Fafnir and needed to look it up.  Yeah, not a lot of pressure in a 1 on 1.  Surely Elena can land a kill before running out of gas.


Selphie (FF8) vs. Berserker (FF5): Feels right.  Close but the longer Selphie can drag things out, the more likely Berserker is missing a swing due to FF5 axe accuracy.

Magic Fanatic

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Thanks for the reminder - I think my backup damage listed for Kanji is too low, meaning he deals 263 with Tarukaja'd Ziodyne rather than 210.  Irrelevant this match (especially if you allow the universal Lightningproof armor), of course.  That said, what do you propose Kanji use instead?  Persona physical skills don't care about weapon stats, so weapon stats only matter for regular attacks, All-Out Attacks (DL-irrelevant), and any other affixes on them like the Lightning damage boost.  Really normally it's just option 3 since improving basic attacks just totally doesn't matter.  I know I kept Yu equipped with the Sharp Shovel from Kanji's dungeon throughout the entire damn game because it offers Auto-Tarukaja and Who Cares what else.

Okay, I wasn't aware about the offense stat of the weapon not mattering.  That said, a quick look on a guide says that the Power Plate has Strength +3 for a little more damage, and if you allow things from Yomotsu Hirasaka, then the Aegis Shield has Endurance +10 (and if not, the Demon Shield has Endurance +4).

That said, I could offer a counter-argument for if/when Auron gets a turn 2: how do you see Zombie Break interacting with Regenerator (which I bring up because FFX Zombie apparently catches Regen for damage)?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 07:03:38 AM by Magic Fanatic »

074

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Voting on this round is now closed

Round 1 Results!

Godlike:

Rayquaza (PKMN) ||||||| vs. Magus (CT)
Killer (SH3) |||| vs. Arceus (PKMN) ||
Sir Leopold (DQ8) | vs. T260G (SaGa) ||||
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) |||| vs. Chaos (FF1) ||


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alicia (VP2) |||||||
Levin Brenton (WAXF) |||||| vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Lilka (WA2) |||||||
Kanji (P4) || vs. Auron (FFX) ||||||


Middle:

Red XIII (FF7) |||||| vs. Juno (SN) |
Anastasia Romanov(SH2) ||||| vs. Byleth (FE3H) ||||
Aht (RH) || vs. Blanca (SH2) || (TIEBREAKER)
Fafnir (WA3) vs. Elena (G2) ||||||


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Fina (SoA) |||||
Selphie (FF8) ||||||| vs. Berserker (FF5) |
Peppor (CC) vs. Heather (FE10) ||||||
Poshul (CC) |||||||| vs. Lelei (S5)

Winners will move onto the winner's quarterfinal brackets in Round 4.  Losers will move into the losers' pools in Round 3
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 05:15:31 AM by 074 »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.