Author Topic: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.  (Read 730 times)

SnowFire

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Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« on: April 21, 2016, 09:01:26 PM »
An unusually large set of 5, but it's really smaller since I'll be shocked if anyone other than a certain someone can vote our 5th contestant.

Azura (FE Fates) - History possesses no record of her despite this making literally no sense.  She probably covered it up to disguise her win/loss record.
Subaki (FE Fates) - Lady Sakura's supervising retainer, Subaki is perfectly positioned to conquer.  Conquer Light, that is.
Camille (CTON) - Nerrrrrrrrd.
Gilbert (Trails SC) - Nerd... gone EVIL.
Killian (Crimson Gem Saga) - This is just for you, Pyro.


Azura vs. Marivel (WA2)
Azura vs. Ember (CSTW)
Azura vs. Dahna (G3)
Azura vs. Bernadette (S5)
Azura vs. Zell (FF8)
Azura vs. Maria (XG)
Azura vs. Banon (FF6)
Azura vs. Raja (PS4)
Azura vs. Doll (Saga)
Azura vs. Noel (SO2)
Azura vs. Juno (FE6)
Azura vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Azura vs. Tristis (CoL)



Subaki vs. Marivel (WA2)
Subaki vs. Ember (CSTW)
Subaki vs. Dahna (G3)
Subaki vs. Bernadette (S5)
Subaki vs. Zell (FF8)
Subaki vs. Maria (XG)
Subaki vs. Banon (FF6)
Subaki vs. Raja (PS4)
Subaki vs. Doll (Saga)
Subaki vs. Noel (SO2)
Subaki vs. Juno (FE6)
Subaki vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Subaki vs. Tristis (CoL)


Camille vs. Marivel (WA2)
Camille vs. Ember (CSTW)
Camille vs. Dahna (G3)
Camille vs. Bernadette (S5)
Camille vs. Zell (FF8)
Camille vs. Maria (XG)
Camille vs. Banon (FF6)
Camille vs. Raja (PS4)
Camille vs. Doll (Saga)
Camille vs. Noel (SO2)
Camille vs. Juno (FE6)
Camille vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Camille vs. Tristis (CoL)


Gilbert vs. Marivel (WA2)
Gilbert vs. Ember (CSTW)
Gilbert vs. Dahna (G3)
Gilbert vs. Bernadette (S5)
Gilbert vs. Zell (FF8)
Gilbert vs. Maria (XG)
Gilbert vs. Banon (FF6)
Gilbert vs. Raja (PS4)
Gilbert vs. Doll (Saga)
Gilbert vs. Noel (SO2)
Gilbert vs. Juno (FE6)
Gilbert vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Gilbert vs. Tristis (CoL)


Killian vs. Marivel (WA2)
Killian vs. Ember (CSTW)
Killian vs. Dahna (G3)
Killian vs. Bernadette (S5)
Killian vs. Zell (FF8)
Killian vs. Maria (XG)
Killian vs. Banon (FF6)
Killian vs. Raja (PS4)
Killian vs. Doll (Saga)
Killian vs. Noel (SO2)
Killian vs. Juno (FE6)
Killian vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Killian vs. Tristis (CoL)

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 11:04:34 PM »
If a FE:F character exists on both Birthright and Conquest, I'm going to assume Conquest averages for them.  So Azura is very nearly dead to average physicals (and exactly dead to them if they're range 3), but she doubles and three-rounds the statistically average DL Approved block of tofu.

Azura vs. Marivel (WA2) - Marivel sports the winning combo of being slow, frail, not very damaging, and lacking a turn 1 status to make up for the previous three failings.
Azura vs. Ember (CSTW) - 1.7 pdur is a bit too much for Azura to deal with.
Azura vs. Dahna (G3) - Dancing Cards might do it?
Azura vs. Bernadette (S5) - Cripes, Bern 3HKOs at best here, is two-rounded, and is slow to boot.
Azura vs. Zell (FF8) - yay staring contests
Azura vs. Maria (XG) - Welp.
Azura vs. Banon (FF6) - Sing with me a song of scrubs getting heal locked.
Azura vs. Raja (PS4) - No.
Azura vs. Doll (Saga) - Doubles power through PowerGrab draining unless Doll gets lucky on the STR lowering and javelins means that GlassShield is just a wasted turn since Doll won't even double Azura if she uses one.
Azura vs. Noel (SO2)  - Oh god.  At least Noel shouldn't be two-rounded but I dunno if he's going to be able to sneak enough offense in given his healing isn't really great.
Azura vs. Juno (FE6) - Juno 2HKOs with a Silver Lance but probably misses one of those two swings, Azura two-rounds and shouldn't miss any of those four.  No, javelins don't help Juno here.
Azura vs. Flora (FE Fates) - Flora can take a javelin counter + iron lance double, Azura cannot take three dagger hits.
Azura vs. Tristis (CoL) - Good news, Tristis can avoid counters!  He uh 4HKOs Azura while doing so and I don't see him avoiding doubles in the process unless Tristis is faster at base than I think he is, since as I recall most of his speed comes from the fact that his attacks just charge faster, which is either something I wouldn't consider or penalize his MT physical for (if you disagree and see Tristis avoiding doubles, Azura is just boned though) and he's not quite durable enough to stave off the three-rounding.  I guess he has a build that lets him 3HKO first, which is at least something, but not really a fan of letting CoL characters mess with their builds.

8-3, well that's a lot of people who are at least two of slow, frail, and damageless.  At least Tristis has a case.

Mr. Perfection for fun, if you want you can disregard this but I kind of want to run through this for the sake of mockery.  -6 AS, 5HKO damage with silver (so you know he's trash at heal locking much of anything), at least Darting Blow can be put to use against the slow but it's not really saving him from being doubled which wastes his otherwise decent durability.

Subaki vs. Marivel (WA2) - Gives her too much time.
Subaki vs. Ember (CSTW) - Ember either 6HKOs and triggers counters or 9HKOs while not doing so and goes second.  Do 8 iron naginata hits + silver naginata finisher kill Ember?  Looks like yes.
Subaki vs. Dahna (G3) - Kneejerk is that Dancing Cards gives her enough breathing room here.
Subaki vs. Bernadette (S5) - Yeah not with that kind of damage, Mr. Perfect.
Subaki vs. Zell (FF8)
Subaki vs. Maria (XG) - Maria
Subaki vs. Banon (FF6) - Shouldn't be in much danger of anything.
Subaki vs. Raja (PS4) - Do I see Raja as being effectively -6 FE:F AS?  Yeah probably.
Subaki vs. Doll (Saga) - If I saw Darting Blow letting Mr. Perfect double Raja, Doll certainly doesn't fare any better, iron naginata forces a lock and there's not much she can do about it.
Subaki vs. Noel (SO2) - please no
Subaki vs. Juno (FE6) - Well Juno isn't doubled at least.
Subaki vs. Flora (FE Fates) - The opening silver double rips off like 70% of Flora's HP, that's probably a bit much for her to recover from even though that's probably the only double he'll get.
Subaki vs. Tristis (CoL) - Tristis 8HKOs (so four-rounds because Mr. Perfect) while triggering counters... but five iron hits plus two silver hits at the end will 7HKO Tristis without the defense buff.  So Tristis will buff, giving Subaki a free hit... except this hit can't be silver, because then Tristis will use that to make his subsequent damage suck... and looking at math the defense buff does in fact let him take that extra hit, if barely.  Good job jobbing to a sad clown, Mr. Perfect.  e: it actually occurs to me that he can trade out an iron+2 for a steel+1... but that gives up 7 points of hit and Tristis does have some evasion, Subaki can't really afford a miss here so I don't think that works out.

6-5.  Well Darting Blow saves him from an inglorious loss to Doll at least.

The power of blorf is strong.  I'm generally inclined to take a middle of the road approach with Trails bosses, though I don't give them much support credit if I do at all because AoE offense kind of flows like wine, plus Gilbert has the misfortune to be fought at a time where Joshua "full MT S-Crafts are totally fair right" Bright is forced in the party.  So this puts Gilbert at ~0.6 PCHP with bad defenses with a 5HKO with bad accuracy and calling in Vogels is probably not something I'd allow and there is basically no way I can take placing mines seriously.  At least his speed doesn't totally fail but he's kind of dependent on how much you respect the AT delay grenade.  I'll get back to this.

Gilbert vs. Marivel (WA2) -
Gilbert vs. Ember (CSTW) -
Gilbert vs. Dahna (G3) -
Gilbert vs. Bernadette (S5) -
Gilbert vs. Zell (FF8) -
Gilbert vs. Maria (XG)-
Gilbert vs. Banon (FF6) -
Gilbert vs. Raja (PS4)-
Gilbert vs. Doll (Saga)
Gilbert vs. Noel (SO2)
Gilbert vs. Juno (FE6)
Gilbert vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Gilbert vs. Tristis (CoL)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 03:15:03 AM by Random Consonant »

Pyro

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 02:47:05 AM »
Camille vs. Marivel (WA2): I think she 2HKOs.
Camille vs. Ember (CSTW): She 4HKOs first...
Camille vs. Dahna (G3): Probably 2HKOs. Don't think Dahna's tricks delay her enough.
Camille vs. Bernadette (S5): Heal & Kill. Nothing Camille can do about that.
Camille vs. Zell (FF8): Has a finisher to get around the limit.
Camille vs. Maria (XG)
Camille vs. Banon (FF6): BLeed lets her threaten an eternal heal lock...? Even her cruddy 25% HP healing might help? Banon's physical is a godly 15% PCHP?
Camille vs. Raja (PS4): Threatens a 2HKO at the very least.
Camille vs. Noel (SO2): He's got healing... and his HP is not bad enough for her to threaten a heal lock... But his damage is bad enough for her healing to be a thing. Gods almighty. (She immunes Silence)
Camille vs. Tristis (CoL): Ignores his good defense, kills first.

Killian vs. Marivel (WA2): Status or ID...
Killian vs. Ember (CSTW): Two tanks with bad damage. Killian has healing (if worse damage)
Killian vs. Dahna (G3): I think his bad damage sinks him. LIke even her 25% Healing might be too much for him. to deal with...
Killian vs. Bernadette (S5): She has more healing/damage/durability combined.
Killian vs. Zell (FF8): Limit dodging is not a thing he does.
Killian vs. Maria (XG)
Killian vs. Banon (FF6): Classic case of infinite vs. non infinite healing (This is gonna take a while)
Killian vs. Raja (PS4): Congratulations Killian on letting Raja buff and beat you.... I.... Think....
Killian vs. Noel (SO2): I think if you multiply heals/durability/damage Noel wins. Oh my god stop this nonsense.
Killian vs. Tristis (CoL): Heals, no heals. Good god.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:57:29 AM by Pyro »

SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016, 08:10:36 PM »
Azura vs. Marivel (WA2)
Azura vs. Ember (CSTW)
Azura vs. Dahna (G3)

Azura vs. Bernadette (S5)
Bern is heal-locked?  Sheesh.  She could handle this if she wasn't via evading counters but nope.
Azura vs. Zell (FF8)
Unforged Brass Naginata Azura just might be able to safely chip Zell here - it's a considerable damage drop.  Of course Zell can respond via just trying to punch her twice...  eh, I want to say there's some configuration of equipment for Azura that both threatens a direct kill if Zell attacks into a counter, and also threatens to knock Zell just to ~35-40% HP where his limit odds are rather low.
Azura vs. Maria (XG)
Side comment: Shevat & Valla are VAGUELY sorta-alike (sekrit hidden kingdom) so maybe Foreign Princess applies?!  Not that it matters.
Azura vs. Banon (FF6)
Critz.
Azura vs. Noel (SO2)
Noel does 1/3 average damage, slowly.  He'll 5HKO Azura or possibly 6HKO her if the Birthright averages + Voice of Peace is seen as active.  That's 325 MP for 5x Quakes if they all hit.  His healing is 30 MP and he has 644 MP total, so that's 10 heals he has in the tank, except the healing isn't full.  He can maybe sneak another heal in by finishing with a physical, although that risks missing with his game-worst Hit.  Considering that Noel's heals are only barely undoing Azura's damage, and he's slow, and you can argue that while weird from a flavor perspective EQ can miss, I think he runs out of MP.  Somehow.  Fail.
Azura vs. Juno (FE6)
Per Random.  Good ol' accuracy woes vs. the somewhat dodgy.
Azura vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Flora with the slight threat range advantage means she throws a Steel Dagger first and makes Azura's damage considerably sadder.
Azura vs. Tristis (CoL)
I'll believe Random.


Subaki vs. Marivel (WA2)
Darting Blow not gonna let Subaki double, which is bad times.
Subaki vs. Ember (CSTW)
Subaki vs. Dahna (G3)
I don't think Dancing Cards really helps here, unless G3 confuse is more decisive than I expect.  It's only useful vs. Azura because DC -> Critical is probably a OHKO.
Subaki vs. Bernadette (S5)
Sky Rider with better Def than Res?  How unfortunate.
Subaki vs. Zell (FF8)
While in general I'm a fan of using at least somewhat general averages (I dunno, go halfway between the cast average & the everyone average?), Subaki is doubled by average and Zell's damage isn't completely horrible if you discount Squall's crit bonus from the average, and might well still be a functional 2HKO even with it.  He might win just by spamming the attack button here, so in the interests of breaking a tie, giving it to him.
Subaki vs. Maria (XG)
Subaki vs. Banon (FF6)
Subaki vs. Noel (SO2)
See above.  If Noel runs out of MP vs. Azura, he definitely runs out of MP vs. the magically tankier Subaki.  He needs what, 8-9 EQs to hit?  Even with Subaki's much worse pressure, that's a lot fewer heals to use.  This battle is going on long enough that Subaki even gets a level-up too.  This is even assuming Darting Blow doesn't let Subaki double Noel when he's charging a really slow EQ.
Subaki vs. Juno (FE6)
And thus did we find the identity of the ultimate FE Sky Knight.
Subaki vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Subaki vs. Tristis (CoL)
Random's arguments sound good to me for these two.

.86


Camille vs. Marivel (WA2)
Above-average speed averageish damage, Marivel's worst enemy.
Camille vs. Ember (CSTW)
While switching to Jade Earrings makes her long-term damage more passable, in general, Camille is still in deep vs. tanks.  Re Pyro, if I read the stat topic right, Ember has a 3HKO here, so unless Camille is seen as fast enough to get a 4:3, she's out of luck.
Camille vs. Dahna (G3)
Camille vs. Bernadette (S5)
Camille's bleed is 0.03 PCHP damage (maybe mildly better at lower levels?) according to the stat topic.  Meanwhile Bern drops ICY POISON which is neither poison nor bleed so Camille can't block it.
Camille vs. Zell (FF8)
Sure, use the 3 turn setup.
Camille vs. Maria (XG)
Maria is worse than I remembered...
Camille vs. Banon (FF6)
Camille's max stamina limit means she can't really threaten a heal lock here.  Except..  holy crap, Pyro's right.  Jade Earring x2 Camille deals .78 PCHP damage with Aim Shot, so if she can get to 6 Stamina, then Sharpened Bolt -> Aim Shot, that's a kill.  With no Willpower Amulets, that requires 2 setup turns on defense, but whatever, Banon damage is too slow.
Camille vs. Noel (SO2)
Every 5 turns, Camille can do 3 Defends + 2 First Aids, or 50% HP effective regen over 5 turns.  Quake will outpace this ignoring any defense hype or speed problems, but...  yeah no.  So Noel will spam physicals instead and occasionally heal, which isn't that much worse damage, but will eventually stop.  It'll just take like 500 turns for Camille to win here.
Camille vs. Juno (FE6)
Crossbow vs. Pegasus
Camille vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Go for Jade Earring x2, Defend -> Aim Shot for a OHKO.  Steel shouldn't be enough to stop this.  (THere's also being nice and letting Camille get a free basic physical off a "double" on Aim Shot since she runs out of Stamina, but not even needed.)
Camille vs. Tristis (CoL)
I'll buy Pyro's math.

Gilbert in a bit.  By default I'm inclined to allow the bot summoning, but restrict the AI from spamming it every single turn - especially so in this case, as it's one of those effects that's way more badass in a duel than in-game, due to the scaling on the bots not really mattering (OHKO bait in-game to basic physicals).  So...  Gilbert's bad, he's real bad.

Gilbert vs. Marivel (WA2)
Gilbert vs. Ember (CSTW)
Gilbert vs. Dahna (G3)
Gilbert vs. Bernadette (S5)
Gilbert vs. Zell (FF8)
Gilbert vs. Maria (XG)
Gilbert vs. Banon (FF6)
Gilbert vs. Raja (PS4)
Gilbert vs. Doll (Saga)
Gilbert vs. Noel (SO2)
Gilbert vs. Juno (FE6)
Gilbert vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Gilbert vs. Tristis (CoL)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 09:42:22 PM »
Just a reminder on Azura, but in order to win some of those matches, you absolutely need to convert defense over to division because Azura is basically 2HKOed by a physical attack does that 2 damage to average defense at endgame in Birthright (On top of 100% needing free counters as well. AS scaling to in game enemies might make her look somewhat worse as it tends to do with people at the top of the AS curve, but I bet that varies a lot based on the path; probably makes her look worse in Birthright but maybe not much of an effect in Conquest). Having 24 HP and taking 9 more than average per physical is bad news since it means even poor physical damage will tear you apart).
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 10:43:08 PM »
That's a fair point, Dhyer.  Using subtractive defense straight-up makes OHKOs mildly harder but she's much easier to 2HKO...  although...  the thing is, most of these enemies 2HKO'd anyway, they just had other problems like being slower (Bernadette) or evasion (Juno).  There's also using potentially using a lower "incoming enemy damage" figure than Elf did, which would make the tanks look relatively better and the likes of Azura relatively frailer. 

I think the main matches this would change would be Noel & Tristis - Noel's fists of fury suddenly become a real threat (well, if they're seen as triggering only 2 counters for the string, rather than per-hit), and Tristis's crappy MT gets mildly less crappy.  Don't think it'd change much otherwise (though can't say for Doll / Raja).

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 03:50:05 AM »
Actually, Tristis isn't using his MT in that case. He just 2HKOs and goes first (even with free counters where Azura can approximately kill average, Tristis is too durable).

It also matters for Zell depending on how much you factor in move in terms of effective turn order. Zell is mildly below average speed (in FF 8, where it's relevance is pretty minor) and certainly 2HKOs her with the bad defense. In Birthright, she's has the worst effective attack range of 6. And she's not even tied with anyone, she's literally alone on the bottom rung. I think I consider SRPGs where there is no speed based turn order to generally fall between 95%-105% speed for the most part based on threat range (more so in really unique cases), but I realize I'm pretty alone in that.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 06:21:08 AM »
Honestly I kinda like the idea of using threat range more directly in such a manner, just haven't worked out a good way of translating it numerically. So if you have any suggestions, I'd like to hear them!

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 06:55:16 AM »
Azura vs. Marivel (WA2): 2RKOs and can't OHKO or do anything decisive on turn 1.
Azura vs. Ember (CSTW): Ember can 2HKO with Smash and eat all the Azura damage he'll take in the meantime. Except evade makes that a bad time. Oh well, even if his GT is evadable, he still has this: his strategy is Aerial Assault then Smash for a 2HKO with the former not triggering counters, and the average outcome is the GT missing once then Smash hitting, so Azura fails to 3HKO him on her own turns and he wins. The fact that Azura can actually have a decent fight against 1.7 pdur kinda shows her strength.
Azura vs. Dahna (G3): Looks like Dancing Card swarm just misses a OHKO? I guess its status might tilt this or something. G3 confuse gives me headaches. Would rather not hype it.
Azura vs. Bernadette (S5): Faster, heal-locks.
Azura vs. Zell (FF8): I agree that Zell is faster, so the question comes down to if Azura can 2RKO him. But... even if she doesn't, Zell needs to land two hits (or Azura limit-dodges per Snowfire), and Azura... is actually quite dodgy even on Conquest, should be able to manage that on average.
Azura vs. Maria (XG): Faster, isn't OHKOed.
Azura vs. Banon (FF6): Azura having good accuracy and a semblance of crit rate does help her in these fights.
Azura vs. Raja (PS4): One-rounds because it's Raja.
Azura vs. Doll (Saga): Pretty straightforward.
Azura vs. Noel (SO2): Yeah uh this doesn't seem that hard? Azura has critz to worry about so this "Noel slowly turtles and wins" isn't going to work even if he doesn't run out of MP. And he's below average in Def so he might just be 2RKOed outright.
Azura vs. Juno (FE6); Evasion tilts this.
Azura vs. Flora (FE Fates): Flora... gets two turns here, even debuffed Azura can kill with an opening Javelin counter (which, remember, won't be debuffed) followed by two more turns. But those two turns... are a potential 2HKO. And she has just enough accuracy here, too.
Azura vs. Tristis (CoL): I'll just trust Random on this one, as I don't really want to think about it much. I definitely stand by division defence, though, I see no reason to reward some duellers for having lots of weak hits when they can't possibly benefit from this in-game. Azura's durability is already worse in the DL than in-game (where HP Tonics can flatten the curve some, and fewer things exist which get around Voice of Peace).

Subaki vs. Marivel (WA2): Subaki doesn't even 3HKO so ID.
Subaki vs. Ember (CSTW): Interesting how this is one fight where he outperforms Azura, the durability difference comes into play and lets his counters shine more.
Subaki vs. Dahna (G3): Again with the G3 confuse on the list of things I'm not terribly willing to hype.
Subaki vs. Bernadette (S5): Bernadette doesn't fear Subaki offence, her heal game does its thing.
Subaki vs. Zell (FF8): I doubt Zell 2RKOs (non-Squall/Rinoa FF8 damage is kinda blah), but he may not have to. He does 3HKO, Subaki 5HKOs most likely... which means Subaki would just win a slugfest. Of course, he needs to watch out for limits. But... actually, no, not really? Zell can't get a limit until 4 Subaki swings, and Subaki goes first so the fourth is a counter to Zell damage, unless Zell stops attacking at some point... and if he does, he loees the stare-off for a number of possible tiebreaks: Subaki has done mroe damage previously, being forced to attack ruins the limit strategy, Subaki has crits/evade/etc.
Subaki vs. Maria (XG): Don't think I quite see Subaki doubling Maria... but he probably barely 3HKOs. Which would beat Maria even if she could spam Graviton Gun, and the rest of her moves are physical or weaksauce.
Subaki vs. Banon (FF6): Subaki is faster, 4HKOs, and has counters. Banon... 6HKOs. If Banon alternates attacking and healing, he is safe, so he does that. He attacks the heals four times, then attacks twice? This still gives Subaki 14 attacks... before factoring in any doubleturns he gets on the slow Banon, or any dodges he gets. So probably more like 17-20 attacks, minimum. Why does this matter? Subaki has 9% crit. Even with some disrespect, he's gonna get one before this is over. And a crit, at any time except immediatley after Banon has just healed, is instant death. If one happens then, Banon just heals again, prolonging the battle. I think I favour Subaki here, but I could be argued. Although... hmm. Banon's own MBlock is pretty good, that could tilt things back. Um. Yeah sure, I guess it probably does.
Subaki vs. Raja (PS4): Oh man Raja, you're bad at this. If Maria was close, then Raja is definitely over the line, Subaki doubles and ORKOs what the -fuck-.
Subaki vs. Doll (Saga): Yep.
Subaki vs. Noel (SO2): Noel sucks. Get some healing which is somewhere near full please. Oh yeah his best spell doesn't even work against Subaki, good fucking job.
Subaki vs. Juno (FE6): Too bad Juno can't do damage with the weapons she could double with, so Subaki's clear PDur edge gives him the win.
Subaki vs. Flora (FE Fates): Sure.
Subaki vs. Tristis (CoL): Sure.

Camilla sweeps the fuck out of this field giving hardly any of them a turn what the f- oh wait, Camille, not the Fates character, gotcha.

Camille vs. Marivel (WA2): Camille misses the 2HKO, but can Marivel actually do anything in two turns? ID just misses the threshold to me, silence won't save her, sleep doesn't seem useful.
Camille vs. Ember (CSTW): How is Ember 3HKOing? He does 29% per swing, she has 95% pdur. So... a 4HKO. At that point, Camille can 4HKO him first with 4 Sharpened Bolts + the bleed damage.
Camille vs. Dahna (G3): Probably.
Camille vs. Bernadette (S5): Tough enough healer to handle the likes of Camille.
Camille vs. Zell (FF8): Zell 4HKOs and is slower so I'm sure Camille has some leisurely 4-turn strategy which backends most of the damage.
Camille vs. Maria (XG): Maria sucks.
Camille vs. Banon (FF6): Yeah surely. To top things off Banon is pretty slow...
Camille vs. Raja (PS4): Boom. This is just pathetic, despite the fact that being ITD is very bad against Raja, Camille still barely manages a OHKO.
Camille vs. Doll (Saga)
Camille vs. Noel (SO2)
Camille vs. Juno (FE6): lol
Camille vs. Flora (FE Fates)
Camille vs. Tristis (CoL): Getting lazy at the end, but whatever, agreeing with others + this field is bad and should feel bad.

Camille 12-1. Being able to do one big shot of damage goes a long way in Light, as does controlling when and how it happens, being fast, and not frail. This was a bad field, granted, and I don't see any suggestion she could hang in Middle. e.g. she only beat Ember due to ITD.
Azura 11-2. Pretty impressive for what she is, reminds me of Sothe/Rennac more than an actually bad dueller. That said the field definitely did not exploit her weaknesses as Random noted.
Subaki 8-5. Worse than Azura. Could have looked a lot worse if more of this field could actually double him. But can kinda manage when he isn't. Yay for slow being the norm in light?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 06:38:07 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light: Epicness awaits.
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 09:42:01 AM »
Honestly I kinda like the idea of using threat range more directly in such a manner, just haven't worked out a good way of translating it numerically. So if you have any suggestions, I'd like to hear them!

Threat range scaling linearly across basically all games it's in, so I really like just dividing a character's threat range by the average PC range and then applying a multiplier (depending on how potent you want the speed spread to be). I like most of the characters falling in the 95%-105% range myself, although I can certainly see why one might want it a little bit more spread out.

Personally, I'd set a character with a 25% larger than average threat range at 105% speed. I don't see a reason to set a cap. I'm assuming that games that have a large proportion of the PCs at greater than 25% threat range is rare, so upon adding data to this, I might tweak it a little. Azura would be a hair above 95% speed to me by this metric.
...into the nightfall.