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Author Topic: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!  (Read 44614 times)

VySaika

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #450 on: April 11, 2008, 05:29:20 AM »
Well the only new people in this game were Keeshi and Ryogo. And while Keeshi played well, she is only new to the board, NOT to the game in general. She plays alot of mafia at her work's internal board, and has for awhile.
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Mad Fnorder

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #451 on: April 11, 2008, 05:49:34 AM »
This makes about six straight games that scum has won. Interesting trend. Wonder if there's more than correlation in the reduction of power roles?

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #452 on: April 11, 2008, 06:25:49 AM »
Not really. Scum were winning pretty handily before the reduction too. The reduction came about as a result of bastard modding and insane setups though.

Andemon

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #453 on: April 11, 2008, 08:21:21 AM »
Well the only new people in this game were Keeshi and Ryogo. And while Keeshi played well, she is only new to the board, NOT to the game in general. She plays alot of mafia at her work's internal board, and has for awhile.

I see. I was referring to Keeshi.
She obviously had some previous mafia experience, but I didn't realize that she had played that much.
In any case, previous experience might actually be harmful here. Some of the regulars have rather uncommon views on what is "good play".

Bad play != definite scumtell.
Defensiveness != scumtell.


Corwin triggered my scumdar almost instantly, but I also mistakenly suspected Ryogo along the way. Oh well, there goes my record of predicting scum. ...and I was having such a good run until now, too... Meh.

Sierra

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #454 on: April 11, 2008, 03:15:21 PM »
In any case, previous experience might actually be harmful here. Some of the regulars have rather uncommon views on what is "good play".

I have to agree with this. I think town did an excellent job of shooting itself in the foot here, and this was part of the reason.

Anyway, it's good to see people enjoyed the game, at least. I was feeling pretty down for a lot of it due to the modkills.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #455 on: April 12, 2008, 05:47:02 PM »
This isn't meant to sound rude, but I'm having difficulty phrasing it any other way:

What do you consider, "good play"?  Looking at voting records, bad play, what?  I'm just curious
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Sierra

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #456 on: April 12, 2008, 08:47:50 PM »
OK: Personally, all I was referring to how new players here (new to the board or the game) tend to be scrutinized merely for playing in ways different than we're used to. I think that pretty obviously happened to Keeshi here.

Carthrat

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #457 on: April 13, 2008, 01:00:59 AM »
Winning. Victory is a judge in itself.
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Shale

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #458 on: April 13, 2008, 01:12:36 AM »
So if I'd voted the right way, town would have retroactively played the rest of the game well?
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Ranmilia

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #459 on: April 13, 2008, 01:51:30 AM »
Winning consistently, and strategy that lets you do so.

There's not too much that can be learned about strategy from this game because there were so many essentially random factors and modkills messing with the normal game setup. 

Ryogo

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #460 on: April 13, 2008, 08:27:47 PM »
Ryogo!

If you know that you're the only female in the game, you keep that to yourself and use it to attack any scum that fakeclaim a female role, you don't discard it as meaningless flavour! As it turns out, this wouldn't have happened here anyway but still.

I'll have to keep that in mind next time. I never thought of that. I really wish my computer hadn't of broken down halfway through, I just felt it really hard to keep up only being able to check once a day, as you could probably tell as the days went on and I had less and less I could point out. I'm more than up for another game, I think I've gotta wait until after my exams are over though (Back home on the 24th). I'm doing rather poorly in a few of my classes, and should've dropped one. My first year stupidity/pride wouldn't let me though >_>

Anyways, back to studying. Huzzah Java programming.

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #461 on: April 14, 2008, 04:33:35 AM »
Winning consistently, and strategy that lets you do so.

That's rather cyclical and doesn't really answer his question.

If town could win consistently there wouldn't be questions over what strategies qualified as good play.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Andemon

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #462 on: April 14, 2008, 07:06:26 AM »
Good player == conscious and intentional, learns from past mistakes.

Here's some basic study material for those who do not fit the above category:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Logical_Fallacies

Ranmilia

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #463 on: April 14, 2008, 07:12:13 AM »
Yeah, that was meant as a response to Shale.  If he'd voted Corwin, town would have won!  Could we then say town demonstrated good play this game?  Heck no, cause being crazy like this game certainly wouldn't result in town winning consistently.  Town got incredibly lucky with the paranoid cop hitting one scum N1 and then another scum withdrawing.  That only leaves one scum, meaning town's got at least a 25-33% chance to win by pure chance. 

What are some things that are good play?  Looking for connections between people.  The only difference between scum and town, by definition, is that scum know who their friends and enemies are.  Obviously they try to hide this but due to human psychology and the necessity of advancing the scum agenda it usually comes out anyway.  Scum also have an agenda, they have certain people besides themselves that they do not want to see get lynched.  All other things being equal, a scum will be for lynching townies and against lynching fellow scum.  Obviously again they'll try to act contrary to this at times to disguise themselves, but they can't carry that too far because townies outnumber them and losing any of their number has a pretty drastic impact on their chances of winning, all other things being equal.  Usually there are power roles in the town who can do various things that hinder the scum agenda, scum want to find out who these people are and kill them, while town wants them to do their thing in peace. 

Beyond that, like any game, you move into metagaming, figuring out what strategies on each side are popular in a given situation and working from there.  For example, in the earlygame when there's not much information around, scum most often tend towards attacking townies and not each other.  Usually they'll only flip around to attacking their buddies if they're making an active, planned move to mislead the town, potentially trading off one of their members in the process.  In this game, Tom attacked Excal day 1 and 2, not knowing that Keeshi would come out of nowhere and make him die and flip scum.  Because of that it was most likely that Tom's actions were promoting the default scum agenda of "lynch townies, not buddies" and Excal was most likely town.  Note all the usuallys and most likelys.  Nothing is ever guaranteed, but certain things are more or less likely.

Ryogo

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #464 on: April 14, 2008, 04:54:57 PM »
Good player == conscious and intentional, learns from past mistakes.

Here's some basic study material for those who do not fit the above category:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Logical_Fallacies

Huzzah for my uber fail at appealing to emotions!

I actually read that and a lot of that site before I started to play. I forgot a lot of the stuff though XP

Kilgamayan

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Re: Composer Battle Is Go! THE TREBLE CLEF IS YOUR DOOM!
« Reply #465 on: April 19, 2008, 05:56:31 AM »
Alex: I would love to believe the "looking for connections" idea if Clue didn't completely knock it down on its ass. If a given human strategy allows scum to all but break C9 in their favor then it isn't a very good strategy. Beyond that, sure, there are odds, but on some level it eventually becomes a game of role dependence and town asking itself if scum are selling each other out or not, which isn't particularly entertaining.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"