Author Topic: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!  (Read 15350 times)

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2010, 09:51:09 PM »
I don't really follow it, but I will cheer for the U.S. (my home country) and Ghana (the home country of many of my friends from undergrad). Cameroon is a third for the same reason.
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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2010, 10:37:57 PM »
Quote
I have no sympathy for the fair-weather fan attitude.

Your personal views on what makes a good fan notwithstanding, it's a simple fact that interest drops when your team has no real hope left in the season.

Well, I sort of dealt with this during the hockey playoffs. I apologize if I come off a bit elitist during this, but I'm a hockey fan, not just a Devils fan. I kept closely following the playoffs the whole way though, because I just like hockey. Heck, the Devils/Flyers were about the only series I DIDN'T watch at least a game in through the entire playoffs because it was never on TV down here. It was disappointing when I couldn't talk to people about what happened because their team got knocked out and they stopped caring/watching.

There's nothing wrong with just liking your team, but it would be nice if more people stayed tuned for the love of the game.

On a separate note, also in terms of sports dynasties that mean nothing:
The New York Islanders won the Stanley Cup 4 years in a row in the 80's. Now look at them. Doesn't matter how many championships your team wins if they can't have recent success or at least maintain cashflow to keep in operation.

So myself, like most people who live outside the northeast, put baseball on /ignore and watch other sports. I have met like three baseball fans in my life in Oklahoma, and one of them is my older brother, who was a college baseball pitcher. I have met more hockey fans which is hilarious considering I live in one of the hottest, least hockeyfied places in the U.S.!

Gary Bettman would like to buy your story for $50,000 and give you a hockey franchise for free. Clearly where you live has proven itself a viable market.

Yoshiken

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2010, 10:57:03 PM »
Personally I'm rooting for my two countries of origin Portugal and England, knowing Portugal though them'll find a way to mess up somehow  ::)

Not until they've screwed over England, though. ;)

Anyways, yeah, not much of a football fan, but I'll still say I'm supporting England, for obvious reasons, and the Ivory Coast, because... they were a random pick of mine a World Cup or two ago, and they did surprisingly well, so I like them for no good reason.

Also, I hate Italy, and seeing them tie Paraguay is hilariously awesome. (Don't ask me why I hate Italy - I honestly have no good reason for it, I just don't like them.)

ThePiggyman

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2010, 10:59:54 PM »
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Grefter

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2010, 11:57:24 AM »
Oooh Salary caps and drumming up a support base, something I can take part in!

Just for a bit of background, Rugby League and Australian Rules are pretty much the biggest kinds of football in the country financially (Soccer is uh pretty bad at getting support, Rugby Union is less successful on a local level but works better on an international level, albeit fairly locally.  Very financially successful, just less high profile during the regular season, might be a local Brisbane thing though).  In Melbourne short of a good decade or so ago you could not get any support for Rugby, it was AFL or get the fuck out.  There was a lot of work put into building a successful franchise down there.  They got it by winning and spending a ridiculous amount of money.  They also introduced Salary caps just after Melbourne started really to pick up.  It slowed it down, but generally speaking they have succeeded at creating a franchise from the ground up in the span of a decade.

Just recently Melbourne Storm were caught breaking salary caps.  Not just bypassing them by being dodgey fucks like everyone has suspected for years (which people have suspected from more than a few clubs to be honest) but blatantly outright paying players one amount and then telling everyone that they are paying them something is (No I don't know how this worked out for them with regards to Tax, I assume they just lied to the League, not the Tax Office).  So Melbourne I think were in a good spot to win this year.  They got stripped of all their points and are unable to play in the finals (not to far into the season).

Now there is all sorts of drama about this, Melbourne pay their players a lot even ignoring the breaking the rules.  So there is a ton of money invested there.  With Melbourne being unable to get into the finals there is talk that this is pretty much the death of Rugby League in Melbourne seriously.  All it takes is one weak year and people are talking about packing it in.  So there isn't so much just that it is hard to build a fanbase when you aren't at least performing, it is hard to maintain one when you aren't insanely well established (AFL is not going anywhere in Melbourne, they could lose for 20 years and it isn't going anywhere).  This is in a fairly small league, you have at most (not actual figures because lol like I care about fucking sports) 2 teams per state on average and you have 16 teams (there is a team from NZ, but not all states have 2 teams.  Queensland always struggles to have a second team, franchises have come and gone in the last decade, think we are on to our third non-Brisbane team or something?).  I can't even imagine to try and get a franchise up and running in a league as huge as MLB, especially not an established team that has not gone anywhere for a good 15 years (fuck that 25 year shit, you NEED the people without a history to get behind a team to have it gain momentum).  That shit isn't going anywhere.

But yeah back to the fun of Melbourne and its salary cap stuff just for giggles and the drama, people have lost or stand to lose a lot of money on this and there is actually talk of them suing the NRL because of the ruling on Melbourne Storm being unable to play in the finals this year and having lost all their points.  You see the penalty isn't in the rules.  The counter argument there is, you signed a legal document saying this is how much you pay your players, you broke those rules.  Boo fucking hoo, you broke the rules and you got punished, you have no place to cry.

So it is a bit of fun drama and honestly, I can totally see where NEB is coming from.  If you have no connection to something it makes it pretty hard to give 2 fucks about a sport.  The key here would be if you are going to start up new sports to decentralise them a bit.  Try to emphasise teams more regionally than just key cities or even states is pushing it a bit (but then US has more smaller states outside a key few, so that might work?).  I honestly don't know how to make it play nice with Canada though.  Maybe you should just let Canadian teams win all the time.

Edit - Missed the Sopko response there.  Yes some people are in it for the love of the game.  It helps that you played.  Lets be honest here, for some people it is a thing to go out and do with a touch of local flavour, an excuse to get drunk and have inappropriate drunken sex with your married best friend and pretend it never happened.  Not everyone is into specific sports for the sake of the game itself.  These people are necessary to make the sports function financially.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 12:00:52 PM by Grefter »
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Rozalia

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2010, 08:31:58 PM »
Personally I'm rooting for my two countries of origin Portugal and England, knowing Portugal though them'll find a way to mess up somehow  ::)

Not until they've screwed over England, though. ;)

I will Roll on the floor laughing if that happens because it'll be the third time in a row in consecutive competitions. England seem pretty safe from that happening at the moment due to Portugals poor result. Yeah its a tie but Brazil are a had team to beat and North Korea seem pretty strong from what I've seen in the first 45 mins.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2010, 08:35:19 PM »
So myself, like most people who live outside the northeast, put baseball on /ignore and watch other sports. I have met like three baseball fans in my life in Oklahoma, and one of them is my older brother, who was a college baseball pitcher. I have met more hockey fans which is hilarious considering I live in one of the hottest, least hockeyfied places in the U.S.!

Gary Bettman would like to buy your story for $50,000 and give you a hockey franchise for free. Clearly where you live has proven itself a viable market.

Oh boy more popular than baseball! (Good enough for Bettman~?)

The way I feel about watching games after my team has lost really depends on what teams are left. I did not watch, say, the New England Patriots play against the New York Giants because, well, I hate both and wanted them both to lose. I did watch Steelers/Cards on the other hand, despite not being a fan of either. Indy/Chicago as well. I think that's the biggest factor for me; I like football but if I just genuinely think either outcome is undesirable I just won't bother.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 08:40:18 PM by Ciato »
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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2010, 11:27:37 PM »
So myself, like most people who live outside the northeast, put baseball on /ignore and watch other sports. I have met like three baseball fans in my life in Oklahoma, and one of them is my older brother, who was a college baseball pitcher. I have met more hockey fans which is hilarious considering I live in one of the hottest, least hockeyfied places in the U.S.!

Gary Bettman would like to buy your story for $50,000 and give you a hockey franchise for free. Clearly where you live has proven itself a viable market.

Oh boy more popular than baseball! (Good enough for Bettman~?)

The way I feel about watching games after my team has lost really depends on what teams are left. I did not watch, say, the New England Patriots play against the New York Giants because, well, I hate both and wanted them both to lose. I did watch Steelers/Cards on the other hand, despite not being a fan of either. Indy/Chicago as well. I think that's the biggest factor for me; I like football but if I just genuinely think either outcome is undesirable I just won't bother.

I will typically still watch basketball/football until the end even if I don't care about the teams because those are my favorite sports to watch.  (Obviously the basketball being dead to me thing was half sarcasm and half annoyance.  Basketball will never die for me.) This is just when I start cheering for my 29th favorite NBA team over my 30th favorite NBA team! 

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2010, 11:34:09 PM »
Choosing between Eli and Thomas was painful.
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Kilgamayan

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2010, 07:06:18 PM »
Shit, Spain, get it together.


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Rozalia

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2010, 09:02:49 PM »
I knew Spain would mess up this year. Yeah they won the euro last time but they tend to be trashy most of the time.

From the games I watched today Germany lost :o and the USA were cheated out of three points. The USA match might be the best match thus far. England are currently on and they are failing hard as always. With the new manager and good qualifier results they were expected to really be a contender but it seems its same old England.

Yoshiken

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2010, 09:21:07 PM »
When do England do anything other than build up hype and then fail spectacularly?

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2010, 10:42:18 PM »
When they are playing Kenya in a Cricket World Cup.

Edit - Man I don't even normally do lololol English suck at Cricket jokes, but you set that one up way to much.
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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2010, 12:15:43 AM »
When do England do anything other than build up hype and then fail spectacularly?

Sometimes they fail spectacularly before they even get a chance to build up hype!

Kilgamayan

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2010, 01:59:28 AM »
I sincerely hope that match doesn't kill the rising interest in soccer in the States. That could have been something to rally behind and get interest going.


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Scar

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2010, 01:38:10 PM »
This time a single black man robs the entire US.
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NotMiki

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2010, 01:54:46 PM »
This time a single black man robs the entire US.

It's like the Obama presidency!  Am I right, guys?
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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2010, 06:43:47 PM »
Rant warning

This World Cup is the first time I've seriously tried to watch or get into soccer, but it was a real shock to me to find out that even in the World Cup the officiating has so much power and so little oversight.  No instant replay and going with the call on the field, that's honestly pretty shaky, but I can sort of understand it.  But... the refs can just add whatever amount of overtime they feel like, disallow goals for any or no reason, and not only does FIFA not require them to justify their decisions, it actively tells them not to and protects them from being questioned.  It doesn't look like the calls in that game will greatly affect who moves on, but reading up, I see that the 2006 WC Finals game was marred by similar controversy. 

From my point of view this is shockingly open to corruption, completely ludicrous as a ruleset for something as high profile as the World Cup, and makes it impossible to take the sport seriously under FIFA.  I don't think I'm alone in this either -  Americans as a whole tend to love their sports highly regulated and with an inherent emphasis on "fair play" overriding all else.  I can see how soccer makes an excellent sport for developing countries where some level of corruption is assumed in any official body and "just roll with it" is seen as the cardinal virtue of sportsmanship, but... small wonder it hasn't taken off here, and I doubt it ever will until/unless the standard international rules change in favor of eliminating these situations.

Still fun to watch though.  I actually hope Slovenia goes far, their aggressive play was awesome to see and a marked contrast to most other teams in the cup.

Yoshiken

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2010, 08:36:06 PM »
Yeah, football is full of corruption - the English league is apparently the best in the world, and there is a referee who openly admits to being a Man U fan, yet is still allowed to ref their games.
That said, it wouldn't take much for US leagues to be regulated more strictly, but I doubt there's the interest over there. Also, as far as I know, they are actually looking into bringing in things like instant replays, but... they have been for a while.

In other news, go Netherlands! I've always been a fan of them as far as football goes (I think it's the orange) so it's good to see them getting 2 wins out of 2 despite playing badly - they usually take a while to get going, and I can see them going pretty far this time round.

Scar

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2010, 08:44:01 PM »
A local newspaper has reported that the ref who cost the US that game has openly admitted to some sort of hatred for the U-S of A.

Good to know the refs are bias and everything.
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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2010, 08:49:28 PM »


Still fun to watch though.  I actually hope Slovenia goes far, their aggressive play was awesome to see and a marked contrast to most other teams in the cup.

I'm hoping Slovenia beats the hell of out England.  One... it'd be funny because the Sun said they had the Easiest group ever.  Two, it'd mean that all the U.S. has to do is tie to advance.  Now... we really should just win to ensure advancing, but shit if anything is guaranteed at this moment.

And they need to do for the World Cup what I think they should do for the Olympics.  Have a tiny island of a a couple thousand people isolated from the world.  Train these people to be referees in world competitions.  Then have these people referee the World Cup, Olympics, etc.  They would have no bias and would have spent their whole lives training to be refs!  (That or get robot refs please.)

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2010, 09:48:17 PM »
A local newspaper has reported that the ref who cost the US that game has openly admitted to some sort of hatred for the U-S of A.

Good to know the refs are bias and everything.

Link, if possible?


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Grefter

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2010, 01:30:54 AM »
Man Australia last night had Hary Kewell sent off for 25 minutes because he had the gall to be standing about where the ball was kicked and get hit in the shoulder.  This shit happens every world cup.  It is just the icing on the cake for everything wrong with the cup that I talked about earlier.

I just tend to forget how totally bullshit the calls are and how over top the are until you get 3 or so games in and lower grade teams are running around 3 or 4 players down because they got randomly red carded last game over total bullshit calls.
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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2010, 07:07:45 PM »
And Portugal just started WW3 with their merciless beating of North Korea.

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Re: World Cup 2010, thank you Green!
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2010, 10:01:02 PM »
I was hoping we'd see some North Koreans give interviews. I think the possibility of that team doing shit off-court is the most intriguing thing to me.