The RPG Duelling League
RPGDL Games => Forum Games => Topic started by: Excal on January 07, 2015, 09:07:34 AM
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Alright folks, it is started. First post will always be updated to have the current information for you.
Conversation amongst the players can be done in any manner. However, for orders, they are to be sent to the unbiased moderator, Luther Lansfield. We will have three days (72h) for talking, one day (24h) for sending in orders, and then the orders will all be made public and the board updated. Then we will start again.
EDIT: There will be separate negotiation and orders phases. Orders do not need to be in before negotiations end. And there is to be no talking about game plans between players when it is not negotiation phase.
Orders must be done semi-formally, so identify unit by type and location, specify what action that unit is taking, and then specify where it is going, or which unit it is supporting/convoying. The one order which does not require specifics is a land unit that is being convoyed. So long as there is a valid string of ships with valid convoy orders, it's move command will be accepted.
Players:
1. Excal - Austria-Hungary
2. Snowfire - France
3. Sir Alex - Russia
4. Andrew - Turkey
5. Carthrat - England
6. Mage - Germany
Negotiations Ends February 4th, 12:00AM EST
State of the Board.
(http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/images/c/c5/Dl_diplomacy_1903_s.png)
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For the record, can you clarify the rules you're using for Italy? (I'd also be fine with continuing to wait for a 7th, FWIW.) Will Italy spam Hold orders? Spam defensive support orders? Get make-up moves submitted by a 3rd party?
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As per Excal in IRC, Italy will always submit hold orders, and when one of their units is forced out, it is instantly disbanded instead of retreating (and never rebuilt).
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Yeah, what Alex said. It is what is recommended in the rule book for a six player game.
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(http://i.imgur.com/VUqlvpj.jpg)
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Alright folks, it is now orders time.
Please give a big thanks to Ciato for being willing to be our neutral order taker.
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Believe I have received orders from everyone. I can post now if you want?
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By all means! I brought this up on IRC a couple of times, but I don't see much of a need for a separate orders phase for internet games (as well as "don't negotiate then!" being impossible to enforce). Might be more clear to just have an orders deadline for each season? (and say the latest set of valid orders received pre-deadline will be followed, in case of changes) That's how the other internet games I've read have done things.
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Sir Alex – Russia
St. Petersburg Fleet moves to Gulf of Bothnia
Warsaw army moves to Galicia
Moscow army moves to Ukraine
Sevastopol fleet moves to Rumania
Carthrat – England
Army Liverpool - Move - Yorkshire
Fleet Edinburgh - Move - Norwegian Sea
Fleet London - Move - North Sea
AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Constantinople-Bulgaria
F Ankara-Constantinople
A Smyrna Holds
Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna - Hold
Army Budapest - Move to Serbia
Navy Trieste - Move to Albania
Snowfire - France
A Par-Bur
A Mar-Spa
F Bre-MAO
Magetastic - Germany
F Kiel-Holland
A Berlin-Kiel
A Munich-Ruhr
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Alright folks, Fall starts. Remember, you need to be holding your new supply centres at the end of this round in order to take them. And, we're going to try Alex's suggestion of just having the orders be in by the end of the three days.
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From page 5 of the same newspaper:
(http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/images/6/69/Italy_newspaper.png)
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Fall 1901
Sir Alex - Russia
F Bothnia->Sweden
F Rumania->Black Sea
A Ukraine->Rumania
A Galicia->Budapest
Magetastica - Germany
A: Kiel to Denmark
F: Supporting A from Yorkshire into Belgium
A: Ruhr to Munich
Snowfire - France
F MAO-Spa(sc)
A Spa-Por
A Bur-Bel
AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Constantinople - Black Sea
A Smyrna - Armenia
A Bulgaria - Greece
Carthrat - England
Fleet Norwegian Sea - Move - Norway
Fleet North Sea - Convoy - Belgium
Army Yorkshire - Move - Belgium
Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna - Move to Budapest
Navy Albania - Move to Greece
Army Serbia - Support (Navy - Albania -> Greece)
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Carthrat - England
Fleet Norwegian Sea - Move - Norway
Fleet North Sea - Convoy - Belgium
Army Yorkshire - Move - Belgium
Just to point out for everyone's future reference, convoy orders to fleets need to specify the exact army and convoy path being used. No harm done here though since there's only one obviously valid option.
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Excal - Austria-Hungary
New Army in Budapest
New Navy in Triest
Magetastica - Germany
Berlin: A
Kiel: A
Snowfire - France
F Bre
A Par
AndrewRogue - Turkey
Fleet Ankara
Carthrat - England
Build Army Edinburgh
Build Fleet London
Sir Alex - Russia
Army Sevastopol
Army Warsaw
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Magetastica - Germany
A: Munich supporting A Bel to Bur
A: Ber to Silesia
A: Kiel to Ber
Carthrat - England
Fleet North Sea - Support - Fleet London Move English Channel
Fleet London - Move - English Channel
Fleet Norway - Move - Sweden
Army Belgium - Move - Burgundy
Army Edinburgh - Move - Yorkshire
Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Move to Galicia
Army Budapest Hold
Army Serbia Support (Navy Rumania -> Bulgaria)
Navy Greece Move to Aegean Sea
Navy Trieste Move to Albania
AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Bulgaria Hold
F Constantinople - Smyrna
F Ankara - Constantinople
A Armenia - Ankara
Snowfire - France
F Spa (sc) - MAO
A Por - Spa
F Bre - Eng
A Bur - Ruh
A Par - Pic
SirAlex - Russia
F Rumania -> Black Sea
F Sweden -> Norway
A Sevastopol -> Rumania
A Galicia -> Bohemia
A Ukraine -> Galicia
A Warsaw Support A Ukraine -> Galicia
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Nitpicky whiny comment per chat & Sopko desires: Can the state of the board be posted after every moveset, rather than replacing the old one? Arrows would be even better, but simply comparing two maps works too. We'll just have a lot of maps.
Also, no need for Luther Lansfeld to do this in her first post, but an annotated moves should probably be added eventually.
Magetastica - Germany
A: Munich supporting A Bel to Bur
A: Ber to Silesia
A: Kiel to Ber
A Den: No move received
F Hol: No move received
Carthrat - England
Fleet North Sea - Support - Fleet London Move English Channel
Fleet London - Move - English Channel
Fleet Norway - Move - Sweden (*bounce* 1:1)
Army Belgium - Move - Burgundy
Army Edinburgh - Move - Yorkshire
Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Move to Galicia (*bounce* 1:2)
Army Budapest Hold
Army Serbia Support (Navy Rumania -> Bulgaria) (invalid)
Navy Greece Move to Aegean Sea
Navy Trieste Move to Albania
AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Bulgaria Hold
F Constantinople - Smyrna
F Ankara - Constantinople
A Armenia - Ankara
Snowfire - France
F Spain (south coast) - Middle Atlantic Ocean
A Portugal - Spain
F Brest - English Channel (*bounce* 1:2)
A Burgundy - Ruhr
A Paris - Picardy
SirAlex - Russia
F Rumania -> Black Sea
F Sweden -> Norway (*bounce* 1:1)
A Sevastopol -> Rumania
A Galicia -> Bohemia
A Ukraine -> Galicia
A Warsaw Support A Ukraine -> Galicia
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*why*
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Snowfire - France
F Brest - English Channel
F Middle Atlantic Ocean S F Brest - English Channel
A Spain - Gascony
A Ruhr - Belgium
A Picardy S A Ruhr - Belgium
Sir Alex - Russia
F Sweden -> Norway
A Warsaw SUPPORT A Galicia Hold
A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Galicia SUPPORT A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Rumania -> Budapest
F Black Sea SUPPORT A Rumania Hold
Carthrat - England
Fleet Norway Move St. Petersburg
Fleet North Sea Move Norway
Army Burgundy Move Belgium
Fleet Eng. Channel Hold
Army Yorkshire Hold
AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Smyrna-Aegean Sea
F Constantinople Support (F Smyrna-Aegean Sea)
A Bulgaria-Greece
A Ankara Hold
Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Support Army Budapest
Army Budapest Support Army Vienna
Army Serbia Move Rumania
Navy Albania Move Triest
Navy Aegean Move Bulgaria
Magetastica - Germany
F supports A Bur->Bel
A Ber->Kiel
A Mun->Tyr
A Sil->Mun
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I'm going to assume that's supposed to be F Holland S English A Bur - Bel? There isn't any other German fleet. Not to be a hardass, but again, for future reference, not specifying exactly or specifying wrong = illegal move, hold order assigned. There are situations where illegal orders are intentionally submitted, especially when supporting allies, so it's not always clear. And the nature of the game makes "fixing" orders after they're seen impossible (if someone really WANTED the move to fail but wants to claim to their ally it was a mistake, what are they supposed to say when given an opportunity to 'fix' it?)
While we're nitpicking, this is a lot more minor, but F Aegean - Bulgaria should TECHNICALLY specify Bulgaria (south coast). It's the only legal option though, so no big deal. It'd only really matter with Spain. (Coasts are also shenanigans.)
Also, there's a retreats phase which happens immediately, so retreats are needed from England & Austria for F Eng & A Vie. You can't retreat to spaces that were just attacked from, have another army there, or there was a bounce in this turn. EDIT: So actually I think Vienna is annihilated? Don't see any valid retreats for it.
Anyway, w/ annotations assuming the German order is processed as F Hol:
Snowfire - France
F Brest - English Channel
F Middle Atlantic Ocean S F Brest - English Channel
A Spain - Gascony
A Ruhr - Belgium (*bounce* 2:2)
A Picardy S A Ruhr - Belgium
Sir Alex - Russia
F Sweden -> Norway (*bounce* 1:1)
A Warsaw SUPPORT A Galicia Hold
A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Galicia SUPPORT A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Rumania -> Budapest (*bounce*, 1:1)
F Black Sea SUPPORT A Rumania Hold (*invalid*)
Carthrat - England
Fleet Norway Move St. Petersburg [assumed nc]
Fleet North Sea Move Norway (*bounce* 1:1)
Army Burgundy Move Belgium (*bounce* 2:2)
Fleet Eng. Channel Hold (*dislodged*)
Army Yorkshire Hold
AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Smyrna-Aegean Sea
F Constantinople Support (F Smyrna-Aegean Sea)
A Bulgaria-Greece
A Ankara Hold
Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Support Army Budapest (*dislodged*, 1:2, annihilated)
Army Budapest Support Army Vienna (*support cut*)
Army Serbia Move Rumania (*bounce* 1:1)
Navy Albania Move Triest
Navy Aegean Move Bulgaria [Assumed sc]
Magetastica - Germany
F supports A Bur->Bel [Assumed F Hol S A Bur->Bel]
A Ber->Kiel
A Mun->Tyr
A Sil->Mun
A Den (H, no orders received)
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Sir Alex - Russia
F Black Sea SUPPORT A Rumania Hold (*invalid*)
This, however, should be a valid order? As long as Rumania didn't move successfully for some reason, which it didn't, the support hold should be active and Rumania would not be dislodged if it was attacked by 2 strength. At least by my understanding of the rules?
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Well, per above, it's valid to give an invalid order, but nope. Supports to hold an army that tries to move don't do anything.
On the bright side, A Ser - Rum also doesn't stop A Rum - Bud from cutting the support, so there's that. (But A Bud - Rum, A Ser S A Bud - Rum would have taken Rumania, yes.)
Also, on second thought, I don't think Excal has any retreats after all? Both Trieste & Tyrolia got cut-off so I think A Vienna just gets annihilated. That'd mean only Rat has retreats / Winter builds.
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Hmm. It's clearly not an issue in this retreat/build phase, but how is it resolved if two units retreat into the same province, given that it is a legal action for both?
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Carthrat - England
Fleet channel retreat Wales
Build fleet London
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Hmm. It's clearly not an issue in this retreat/build phase, but how is it resolved if two units retreat into the same province, given that it is a legal action for both?
Both are annihilated.
In Internet Diplomacy I've played before, it's usually etiquette to just post your retreat in a public place like the thread since it rarely matters what others do, but when there are multiple retreats in the same area such that this is a possibility, that's a rare time where people will send retreats to the GM, then the GM will post them simultaneously.
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I have still not received all of the orders! Please send them!
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I will update at noon PST tomorrow with a hold order for any unsubmitted orders.
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Snowfire - France
F English Channel S English A Bur-Bel
F Middle Atlantic Ocean S F English Channel
A Gascony - Marseilles
A Ruhr - Burgundy
A Picardy - Paris
Magetastica - Germany
A Mun supports A Kiel -> Ruhr
A Kiel -> Ruhr
A Tyr -> Pie
AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Greece-Serbia
A Ankara-Bulgaria F Black Sea Convoy A Ankara-Bulgaria
F Aegean Sea S-Ionian Sea
F Constantinople S A Ankara-Bulgaria F Black Sea Convoy A Ankara-Bulgaria
Sir Alex - Russia
F Sweden -> Finland
A Warsaw -> Livonia
A Galicia -> Budapest
A Vienna Support A Galicia -> Budapest
A Rumania Support A Galicia -> Budapest
F Black Sea Convoy A Ankara -> Bulgaria
Carthrat - England
Fleet St. Petersburg Support Army Yorkshire Move Norway
Fleet North Sea Convoy Army Yorkshire to Norway
Army Yorkshire Move Norway
Army Burgundy Move Belgium
Fleet Wales Hold
Fleet London Support Fleet North Sea
Excal - Austria-Hungary
No orders received - all units hold
I will see if I can figure out a way to update the map, loves.
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I chatted with Ciato, who asked if I could make a map. The answer is I can, *but* it'd probably be much easier at this point to punch the moves into whatever program Excal was using for his map-generation (it looks automated at least?), so I'd rather be lazy and not do hand-made maps if there's any prospect of Excal resuming the game. And if I do start making maps, I'd rather it be because I'm the new GM or the like, and will be making maps here on out.
If both A) Excal doesn't show up in the next few days to confirm a continuing interest in GM'ing the game and B) The remaining 5 players wish to continue, then I'd be fine with a replacement GM/mapmaker. I'd be willing to take over should it come to that if everyone else agrees, but let's wait a bit more on Excal first.
Snowfire - France
F English Channel S English A Bur-Bel
F Middle Atlantic Ocean S F English Channel
A Gascony - Marseilles
A Ruhr - Burgundy
A Picardy - Paris
Magetastica - Germany
A Mun supports A Kiel -> Ruhr
A Kiel -> Ruhr
A Tyr -> Pie
A Den H [no moves received]
F Hol H [no moves received]
AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Greece-Serbia (*bounce* 1:1)
A Ankara-Bulgaria [via F Black Sea]
F Aegean Sea S-Ionian Sea [assumed this is really "F Aegean Sea -> Ionian Sea" as there is no fleet in the Ionian to support]
F Constantinople S A Ankara-Bulgaria
Sir Alex - Russia
F Sweden -> Finland
A Warsaw -> Livonia
A Galicia -> Budapest
A Vienna Support A Galicia -> Budapest
A Rumania Support A Galicia -> Budapest
F Black Sea Convoy A Ankara -> Bulgaria
Carthrat - England
Fleet St. Petersburg Support Army Yorkshire Move Norway
Fleet North Sea Convoy Army Yorkshire to Norway
Army Yorkshire Move Norway
Army Burgundy Move Belgium
Fleet Wales Hold
Fleet London Support Fleet North Sea
Excal - Austria-Hungary
F Bulgaria H (*dislodged*, 1:2)
A Budapest H (*dislodged*, 1:3, annihilated)
A Serbia H
F Trieste H
Legal retreat options for F Bulgaria (sc) are the Aegean Sea, or "off the board" aka disbanded. The default IS "disband" if no options are picked, despite how stupid that would be, so it does require Excal to acknowledge he wants to retreat to the only legal square.
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So is Snow the GM, now, responsible for maps and related paraphernalia?
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Ciato said she was meeting up with Excal in-person today to see what's up; if there's still no word, then I will volunteer to take over the game - but only with unanimous consent, because player-GM is weird and best avoided.
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I'm fine with it.
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Sounds fine to me. Assuming moves are still collected by a third party (Ciato) there shouldn't be any problems with anyone making the maps and stuff.
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The issue is less the maps and more that the GM has the final say on any interp calls / rules weirdness / house rules. For example, if I wanted to screw over Andy and I was GM, I could be a hardass and claim that "F Aegean Sea S-Ionian Sea" is gibberish and rule the move becomes just a hold. A non-player GM would have been able to contact sooner for any unclear moves and straighten 'em up, but that's impossible for a player-GM who isn't allowed to see the moves beforehand, and can mean that there's a theoretical chance for partiality in such circumstances. Or stupid stuff like I go on vacation and declare the game on hold, then somebody else goes on vacation and I say "tough snot, get moves in or I NMR you."
Now, I of course would never do any evil GM stuff like the above and if anything err on the side of ruling against my own interests, and just GM like I'd GM any normal game. And hopefully the need for such rulings will be rare anyway, but it's something that can be rather uncomfortable, so it's why I'd want to address the issue outright and make sure people are cool with it.
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I'm prepared to trust the snows!
Although perhaps from now on, we should be strict about move syntax so this situation is prevented going forward?
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My inclination would be to be strict with people who've played a bunch (aka me) and lenient with people with <5 games under their belt, FWIW.
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I generally trust you. Though that was indeed a notable failure on my part with typing.
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Still waiting on Magetastica's confirmation. Anyway, here's the map (assuming a retreat to the Aegean Sea):
(http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/images/c/c5/Dl_diplomacy_1903_s.png)
If not clear, the coloring of the circle indicates actual control, so Budapest / Bulgaria haven't swapped control yet. The darker shade is for home SCs.
If I'm the GM, let's say that Wednesday the 4th at midnight is the deadline. Due to the weird circumstances of Excal's absence, I'd prefer to wait as long as possible to resolve the fate of F Bulgaria/Aegean. If there's still no response by the end of Tuesday the 3rd, then it's retreated off the board; feel free to send Ciato two sets of orders if you're submitting early if it's that important to know whether F Aegean exists or not.
IMPORTANT QUESTION: Games I run have titles to be memorable. Collapse, Alpha, Sengoku, whatever. Any suggestions on a title? I will arbitrarily pick one if none are offered for Fall 1903, or pick among the suggestions if they're decent.
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I updated the first post with all of the relevant information, including Snowfire's map. I changed the time zone for orders from PST to EST, assuming that is what Snowfire meant.
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Thanks. I'm a fan of having access to all the maps for historical reference if nothing else, so here's the Winter 1903 map now that it isn't in the opening post:
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/965x817q50/901/hW123O.png
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If Excal is no longer around I don't mind Snow being GM.
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Also, best to mention this in advance, although with only 5 players it shouldn't be a big deal. Here's SnowFire's deadline policy, stated in advance due to also being a player:
A) If for some reason you need an extension, contact me, and I'll probably grant it. Ideally a bit in advance of course, it's no big deal to have a turn be 2 days longer once in awhile.
B) If moves are missing come deadline, there's an automatic 24-hour extension because maybe people just forgot. Try not to abuse this too much. (Alternatively, maybe deadlines are too short, and then you should also speak up.)
C) If your moves are still missing 24 hours after deadline, there's a one-time-per-person automatic 48-hour extension (so +24 hours). If your moves still aren't in 2 days later, Ciato should feel free to post the moveset (barring other circumstances, like an extension or someone else triggering their 48-hour extension). So if you miss the automatic 24-hour extension twice, too bad, you may be NMR'd on the second and later occurrences.
D) Until moves have been posted, it's always acceptable both to late-submit and to change previously submitted orders, no matter when the deadline was.
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Argh, sorry for vanishing. That said, as things stand, Snow taking over is super, awesome, definitely for the best, and I'm glad to see that's what happened.
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Confirming the retreat to the Aegean Sea.
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With about 2 hours to spare, the Bulgarian fleet makes it out before disintegrating into the inky void.
IMPORTANT: Andy requested an extension due to the weirdness, which is fair enough. So let's say the new due date is Thursday February 5 @ midnight Eastern (the end of Thursday to be clear, not super-early Thursday morning). Please get your moves in by then.
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oh geez 12 *AM* EST right.
Thanks, Andy!
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Magetastica - Germany
A Pie -> Tus
A Ruhr -> Mun
A Mun -> Tyr
F Hol: HOLD
A Den: HOLD
Carthrat - England
Army Belgium Move Holland
Fleet North Sea Support Army Belgium Move Holland
Fleet London Hold
Fleet Wales Hold
Army Norway Support Fleet St. Pete Hold
Fleet St. Pete Hold
Snowfire - France
F English Channel - MAO
F MAO - W. Med
A Burgundy - Ruhr
A Paris - Burgundy
A Marseilles S A Paris-Burgundy
Sir Alex - Russia
A Budapest -> Trieste
A Vienna Support A Budapest -> Trieste
A Rumania -> Serbia
F Black Sea -> Constantinople
A Livonia -> St. Petersburg
F Finland Support A Livonia -> St. Petersburg
AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Ionian Sea-Tunis
A Greece S A Rumania-Serbia
A Bulgaria S A Rumania-Serbia
F Contantinople-Smyrna
Excal - Austria-Hungary - no orders submitted, all units hold (I know you said an automatic 24-hour extension but I am taking this as an implied "not interested in participating anymore")