The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: Nephrite on December 13, 2011, 07:46:25 AM
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Gilderoy/nya9ac-1.jpg)
"For some reason, I feel like being benevolent and giving you another chance. Let's see if you and your friends can manage to win."
Link to the Dungeon Wiki! (http://rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php/Full_List_of_Dungeon_Participants)
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Team OK (Grrrl Power) | Rikku, Purim, Kyra, Yukiko, Rena Rikku's Mixes (http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?
title=Dungeon_Stuff#Rikku)
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. Flay and Nikki
Team OK vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team OK vs. Opera and Ernest
Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse
Team Tal-Hatbot | White Wizard (DoS), Nash, Borya (Brey), Momo (With Enemy Skills) Angelo, Nall
[Floor 3a: A Singlet]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Hatbot vs. Chris, Rody (Firefly Rune (Not Sealstone)), Alanis and Melville
Team Hatbot vs. Kiryl and Angelo
Team Hatbot vs. Flora (WoZ)
Team Hatbot vs. Atma Weapon
*Full Heal
Team Hatbot vs. Dario and Miguel
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2)
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. Alex, Jessica, Kyle, Nash and Mia
Team Magic vs. Jude, Raquel, Arnaud, Yulie and Kresnik
Team Magic vs. Dart, Rose, Albert, Miranda, Kongol and Haschel
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
Team Magic vs. Chaz, Wren, Rika and Rune
Blanca: Naberius (Gale, Gale Spike, Arc Gale), Astaroth (Holy Resist, Bright Crest, Evil Crest)
Lucia: Aim (Rage, Shield, Gale, Heat Edge), Murmur (Raise Up, Resurrection), Malphas (Entrance, Gale Spark, Bright Crime), Asmodeus (Dark Resist, Evil Crest, Bright Crest)
Ricardo: *Entrance, *Arc Heal, *Resurrection, *Evil Crest, Arc Cure, Heat Edge, Gale, Arc Mirage, Red Bounce, Gale Blast
Synergy (Shadow Hearts): Blanca, Ricardo and Lucia start with 1 Stellar Crest. 1 Extra Crest is gained per floor and may be granted to one of the three.
Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.
Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 25% and increases by 25% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 200% base speed. The speed of this character cannot be increased in any way, nor can this character grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.
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Ability reminders first.
Celes
Cure/Cure2/Antdot/Regen/Remedy
Ice/Ice2/Ice3/Fire/Fire3/Bolt3/Bio
Imp/Sleep/Mute/Break/Muddle/Berserk/Doom/Vanish/Haste/Slow/Demi/Rasp/Osmose/Safe/Shell/Dispel/
Learned this floor: Life / Life2 / Life3 / Cure3
Strago:
Still ignoring Lores that are questionable (L. X effects) and that really suck (Blow Fish against entities that are not insane tanks). He pretty much has his full set except for the only occasionally useful Quasar / ForceField anyway.
Damage:
Aero / GrandTrain / CleanSweep / Aqua Rake / Exploder
Status:
Sour Mouth and some other stuff. (Okay, Dischord / Stone / Condemned / Reflect ??? / Rippler)
Support:
Pearl Wind / Big Guard / Pep Up
Feena:
Knifehurl, Randohurl
Paralyze Whip, Zap! Whip, Fire Whip
Burn, Burnflame, Burnflare,
Heal, Healer, Snooze (around 50% Sleep, MT), Alheal, AlHealer+
Diggin', Tremor, WOW!,
Howl, Runner, Howlslash,
DragonZap!
Crackle, Shhh! (inflicts Silence), Crackling, Fiora (inflicts Moveblock),
Cure (remove POIZN), Refresh (removes Moveblock), Speedy, Resurrect, Halvah (total status curing), Protect (temporary invincibility for one ally)
Tree of Life, End of the World
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So note that Feena has one of her main really cheaty spells in Tree of Life, which is a perfect party heal - revival, status curing, full healing, etc. She's also got DragonZap which is excellent magic damage to all enemies.
I'll also note that Celes has the dreaded Vanish / Doom setup. Apparently FF6a patched this particular bug, so I'll assume that it doesn't work on your average boss, but throwing that out there for those who do allow some retro cheese. (If you don't allow that, there's also Vanish / Demi, Vanish / Dischord, etc. which might still fly if you see Vanish as working on a boss.)
Anyway, this team is still fast and can still blitz out key members of the enemy team, then fall back on really, really good stalling. 3 revivers, 4 healers, a variety of buffs. Ricardo has his later songset at this point, which includes stuff like Eternal Treasure - a PDef / SDef boost which nicely stacks with Strago's BigGuard.
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch
A pile of limit fighters. Take them out one at a time, which even with large TotA boss HP respect (which I actually have) means that they generally kill one person at best. Strago opens with Big Guard to make their patter of regular attacks be controllable. Celes might toss out a few Hastes for fun. Ricardo charges up his stock gauge.
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper
Decus & Cyril apparently roll by elemental defenses, which is potentially problematic, but it's not a problem to blitz out Vesper. BigGuard + EternalTreasure + some elemental cheatiness of my own (Celes's Minerva, Feena has the storebought Mink Coat equip which halves elements by 50%) means that the team survives the counter punch and spams healz while grinding it out. (Incidentally, Strago's GrandTrain is non-elemental, as is, weirdly enough, End of the World (Despite being a shower of flames...), so there's an argument for smashing both Vesper and Decus in the turn 1 blitz and skipping BigGuard, depending on SO2 boss HP respect. Doesn't really matter.)
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal
Miguel needs two turns to set up his game, which only involves KOing one person a turn anyway against my pile of revival. He'll be dead before he makes it to turn 2.
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs
Oh noes Zera might cast one spell before dying horribly. Mohs dies from the MT nuke. Zio apparently skips his first real turn, which is a shame. If that's ignored he has an elemental MT 2HKO which is not really that scary. Ricardo blows his stock so that Orgulla can't steal it in the next battle.
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2)
Patriarch's Curse of Gatres only unlocks in his second phase, so he's straight damage + possible status until prodded. (And Ricardo will be playing his status immunity song so the status isn't really an issue.) So what's Orgulla's strategy? As a reminder, she has two forms, Eryu & Manes. Eryu is the quick, low damage form with a speed buff and POIZN hype... since I can immune the poison (or heal it), this is not a winning strategy. Furthermore Celes has Dispel so it's not worth Orgulla's time to even bother trying the speed buff.
So... Orgulla's first turn is Manes Awakens. She's going to spam Pound of Flash to max the Boost gauge while Patriarch smacks people with Holy power, except that Pat lacks an Airing / Downing attack in his first set of HP, so it'll take 3 hits to actually kill somebody, even given the elemental chain he builds. Maybe 4 post-buffs. So in other words... Patriarch can kill one character a turn. Against my suite of revival, that won't cut it. Orgulla is freakishly tanky, but when not really in danger of dying, she'll go down eventually. Once she's out of the way, Patriarch can safely be let into UMN Phase Transfer Cannon range and dealt with as normal.
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Team OK (Grrrl Power) | Rikku, Purim, Kyra, Yukiko, Rena- So probably no revival at the moment.
Let's say
Rikku: Averagish MT damage, HP is probably really still atrocious. Element items might be good, but I think they unfocus
Purim: Healing and perhaps Fire magic
Kyra: Whatever she starts with!
Yukiko: Healing and some Fire magic
Rena: Healing
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. Flay and Nikki- I'd bet both Flay and Nikki get turns. Man, it really feels like someone has to die here (safe bet is Rikku)
Team OK vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team OK vs. Opera and Ernest
Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)- So, this two are similar speed, Killey has nasty MT (that Yukiko blocks at least), and there's not a lot of quick damage here. Expect...casualities
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse- They'll need two people alive since Zidane will status one. And uh...yeah, think this team just falls apart on this floor overall.
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Team OK (Grrrl Power) | Rikku, Purim, Kyra, Yukiko, Rena Rikku's Mixes
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. Flay and Nikki: Frost saber on rena, snowman flay before he moves. Nikki dies nice and easy to the other 3, then heal up and wait for flay to become vunlerable.
Team OK vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1): Same as above, this time Rudy is the snowman. WAACF Jack doesn't have any ID or status, just a bunch of backloaded damage. He's not a threat.
Team OK vs. Opera and Ernest: lol
Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5): By now, Rikku must have an OD built up. Null all mix and faceroll.
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse: Purim has status healing. Zidane has to go for her. OK's other 4 girls kill him. Locke, Karn and Vyse can score 1 kill in 2 turns but the 3 survivors then just round robin heal and win a nice slow fight, since those enemies can't 1 round anyone.
Team Tal-Hatbot | White Wizard (DoS), Nash, Borya (Brey), Momo (With Enemy Skills) Angelo, Nall
[Floor 3a: A Singlet]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Hatbot vs. Chris, Rody (Firefly Rune (Not Sealstone)), Alanis and Melville: meh
Team Hatbot vs. Kiryl and Angelo: meh
Team Hatbot vs. Flora (WoZ): Flora sleeps angelo (only status healer at this point) then starts OHKOing people. Revivers (if there are any) first, then brey, then other healers. Alternatively if there's only 1 reviver, Flora can just skip sleep and go straight for killing. She might win outright. If she doesn't, she'll force a ton of MP to be spent and make a few people enter the next fight with 1 HP.
Team Hatbot vs. Atma Weapon: Rasp the team to death.
*Full Heal
Team Hatbot vs. Dario and Miguel
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch: Easy
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper: Wait wait wait, there's no way in hell Red and Feena have enough damage between them to 2HKO Vesper, and Celes goes last in this battle. Blitzing him with the help of strago or ricardo obviously isn't an option, since unless they both cast their buffs, decus and cyril annihilate everyone but celes and feena, then keep doing it over and over when the revives are cast until celes and feena run out of MP. So... vesper gets a turn and gets to rip some MP off, as well as take some more damage. He probably goes after Feena's MP to put a cork on that insane MT healing. How does this change the battle?
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2)
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. Alex, Jessica, Kyle, Nash and Mia
Team Magic vs. Jude, Raquel, Arnaud, Yulie and Kresnik
Team Magic vs. Dart, Rose, Albert, Miranda, Kongol and Haschel
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
Team Magic vs. Chaz, Wren, Rika and Rune: Yeah this team just has so much MT damage, healing and statusblocking that there's no way a floor of PCs like this can threaten it. They'd need really fast and strong ST offense to wipe out 2 shadow hearts characters before they can move, and nothing here has that.
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Team OK vs. Flay and Nikki: Frost saber on rena, snowman flay before he moves. Nikki dies nice and easy to the other 3, then heal up and wait for flay to become vunlerable.
Strategy depends entirely on what you see Aroma Materials catching since they miss ID (or whether or not you allow them at all!).
Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5): By now, Rikku must have an OD built up. Null all mix and faceroll.
Rikku's only going to have an OD this early if she's been taking damage. In the other fights, if she's not eating a quick death, I don't think enemies are going to focus on her that much.
Team OK (Grrrl Power) | Rikku, Purim, Kyra, Yukiko, Rena Rikku's Mixes
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. Flay and Nikki
Team OK vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team OK vs. Opera and Ernest
Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse - With the given above, I'm abstaining until I hear further arguments.
Team Tal-Hatbot | White Wizard (DoS), Nash, Borya (Brey), Momo (With Enemy Skills) Angelo, Nall
[Floor 3a: A Singlet]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Hatbot vs. Chris, Rody (Firefly Rune (Not Sealstone)), Alanis and Melville
Team Hatbot vs. Kiryl and Angelo
Team Hatbot vs. Flora (WoZ)
Team Hatbot vs. Atma Weapon
*Full Heal
Team Hatbot vs. Dario and Miguel - Waiting for other people. Not sure of Momo at all, and I think she might be very, very important.
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2) - I'll buy Snow's explanation for it all.
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)
KEEP IN MIND THAT SHANIA NOW HAS HER DREAM PORTER.
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. Alex, Jessica, Kyle, Nash and Mia - Nash isn't catching more than three people with his sleep. This can be mitigated by rearranging my party order (not turn order, not worried about that) before the fight (to something like Yuri 2 - Ricardo - Lucia - Shania - Blanca or something). Shania remains a constant threat due to being able to double Sanlittobell and Shining Zephyr/Sun Flare.
Team Magic vs. Jude, Raquel, Arnaud, Yulie and Kresnik - Roll and smash. Ricardo is now the most dangerous person in the team, since he's fast and can combo straight into Shania.
Team Magic vs. Dart, Rose, Albert, Miranda, Kongol and Haschel - They'd need to pop both White Silver Dragon and either Thunder God to kill Yuri/Shania/Lucia or Violet Dragon to kill Ricardo. Blanca resists Haschel's damage too much to be in danger. After that, heal up and laugh since everyone else is slower than Rose (who will fail to kill anyone - thank you Leonardo Bears), then Yuri AND Shania.
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna - Yuna JUST BARELY misses the OHKO on Yuri and Shania (by about .1x of the Kill Point). Zidane absolutely has to status Ricardo, or Entrance -> For the Children just wipes them up, and this is after a Blanca Aurora. Yuna and Zidane are the only ones faster than Yuri, so the enemies easily find that they just can't keep up.
Team Magic vs. Chaz, Wren, Rika and Rune - My resources and skills basically mean that each fight is as good as a Full Heal, so I'm coming in to this almost full. Roll and smash, since they (again) HAVE to take out first Ricardo, and possibly Blanca as well.
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Abstain on team OK.
Team Hatbot vs Dungeon- Team Hatbot has problems in dealing with the Chris fight alone, let alone Atma weapon.
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch- Team has enough ST for this.
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper- Feena+Strago+Ricardo+Red should be able to take out Decus. (Strongly disagree with strago having grand train but clean sweep works against Decus). Vesper+Cyril are dangerous but have no prayer of killing Celes, which they have to do. Celes can blow a use of Phoenix here at the end of the fight to reverse the damage. I also strongly call bullshit on Celes speed hype, she is clearly below average at this point in the dungeon.
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal- Kaboom.
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs- Black Wave can OHKO PC's, but it doesn't matter. Zio's support is shit.
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2)- No idea, requires some research.
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. Alex, Jessica, Kyle, Nash and Mia- Magic has to stop Alex from getting a turn (RDA+Mia is horrible death for magic's entire team) and he has no way of doing so. Monkey: I would agree completely with that line of thought if magic could do anything about sleep. He can't.
Team Magic vs. Jude, Raquel, Arnaud, Yulie and Kresnik
Team Magic vs. Dart, Rose, Albert, Miranda, Kongol and Haschel
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
Team Magic vs. Chaz, Wren, Rika and Rune
Zio apparently skips his first real turn, which is a shame.
He has an invinciblity barrier you have to use an item on to break through, so that first turn just gets tossed out in practice for DL purposes.
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Everyone fails except for Snowfire, abstain on Snowfire.
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Rikku's only going to have an OD this early if she's been taking damage. In the other fights, if she's not eating a quick death, I don't think enemies are going to focus on her that much.
idk I remember getting ally OD mode on my faster, more active characters around when you fight chocobo eater. I wouldn't allow it by floor 2 for someone like Lulu or Auron, but for rikku... sure.
(RDA+Mia is horrible death for magic's entire team)
It's like 2.6x average damage.
harmonixers tank it with raw durability alone
ricardo resists fire
and unless both blanca and ricardo are put to sleep (not bloody likely), the entire team survives. both are faster than mia, blanca has an MT status recovery move and is the fastest guy on his team (so they all get turns), and ricardo can buff the team's MDef before mia's attack hits. edit: ricardo has MT status recovery too actually (arc cure off a crest.)
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(RDA+Mia is horrible death for magic's entire team)
It's like 2.6x average damage.
harmonixers tank it with raw durability alone
ricardo resists fire
and unless both blanca and ricardo are put to sleep (not bloody likely), the entire team survives. both are faster than mia, blanca has an MT status recovery move and is the fastest guy on his team (so they all get turns), and ricardo can buff the team's MDef before mia's attack hits.
Not if they're asleep, enemies who are asleep in Lunar take a ton of extra damage, and Shania might survive, but I think Yuri's bad Sdef sinks him. Jessica can also throw in another physical if needed to push someone over the edge.
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If lunar sleep does boost magic damage by a lot, I vote fail on magic's team then.
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Well, on a side note, Mia would be going before Blanca and Ricardo, but those two would be going before Alex at his best. If Mia attacks, she pretty much negates the sleep that Nash just did, and gives Blanca/Ricardo free reign to patch up said damage.
Unless, of course, someone can pipe in that magic damage doesn't cancel sleep (No FAQ I could find could specify whether sleep got cancelled or not).
EDIT: I just tested it - the target hit woke up immediately after Mia's Ice Dagger.
So, therefore...
Nash can put... Up to three people on my team to sleep at a time? Probably? And then if Mia uses her MT... They all wake up to less lethal damage, and Blanca just uses Aurora.
Mia waits... Ricardo or Blanca just use Fullmoon/Arc Heal, and everyone's awakened anyway.
It should be noted that the turn order with Wind Cane Mia is Nash -> Jessica -> Mia -> Blanca -> Ricardo -> Alex -> Yuri -> Shania -> Lucia -> Kyle... And then For Everyone/Sanlittobell enters the picture and throws that out the window, because everyone but Lucia (the absolute slowest character) will be 3-2ing Nash at worst, and he's not going to get the chance to catch 3 people with his status spells again.
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Mia can tweak her speed to go after Blanca and Ricardo, so she can time her offense with Alex just fine. I also have to note -everybody ignored that Kyle also has MT damage-, which stacks a little extra against Magic's team.
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I think Sleep might even affect physicals more than magic. If Royce used Shot Lancer on a sleeping character I remember it doing something like 400 damage.
Even if he gets past that fight I still think Magic is overstating how easy the FF floor is. Yuna and Terra are both throwing around 1HKO Holy/Pearl spells on the Dark innates and Zidane is hitting status that they can't block.
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How useful is Zidane's status going to be, though? Mini and Blind are the only ones they can't block and that's not really making waves (Blind is -useless- against a mage/ITE team, and Mini just hurts their durability, not even touching the skillset), let alone being pure single-target. Terra honestly looks leagues more dangerous with the mdur and possibly MT OHKO on Ultima (if Ultima still manages to hit 9k unfocused due to Morph's damage boost, that's pretty much gg to the entire team). This is pretty important because they're actually actively -bad- at killing Terra with her elemental spoiling/across the board durability/evade combo. Yuri+Shania could try draining her MP, but with evade+mdef+huge MP pool, I'd be skeptical at their capability to even drain enough to keep her from casting Ultima. And, of course, either Yuri or Shania die first thing with Yuna spamming OHKO with weakness Holy. That's kind of a messy fight.
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Mia can tweak her speed to go after Blanca and Ricardo, so she can time her offense with Alex just fine. I also have to note -everybody ignored that Kyle also has MT damage-, which stacks a little extra against Magic's team.
Unless there's something that LOWERS her Agility while she's using the Wind Cane... No, she can't.
Wind Cane Mia is ONE point lower in Agility than Nash, (so the order in my line-up is Mia -> Jessica instead of Jessica -> Mia), so unless there's something that lowers her Agility by... Exactly 8, there's nothing she can do.
Also, both Ricardo and Blanca have Evil Crest. The AoE on that is huge - so it could be argued that it can hit both Alex and Mia no matter where on the field they start - and cut SATK by 36%, which can neuter some of their offense.
Assuming the 272 Average (Kill Point of 680) AND that Evil Crest can only hit one of the two...
Mia goes before Alex, dealing 210*1.5=305 damage. Alex then goes and drops 470*.64=300.8 damage for a total of ~606 damage.
No matter how you cut it, Mia needs to somehow go after Alex, AND cause my characters to want to do something OTHER than healing sleep.
Oh yeah, Kyle's MT? Hits a straight line on the screen, or some amount of area around him (he doesn't move). Neither is hitting more than two characters at best after I've taken turns, and even then, two is pushing it.
I think Sleep might even affect physicals more than magic. If Royce used Shot Lancer on a sleeping character I remember it doing something like 400 damage.
Even if he gets past that fight I still think Magic is overstating how easy the FF floor is. Yuna and Terra are both throwing around 1HKO Holy/Pearl spells on the Dark innates and Zidane is hitting status that they can't block.
I said it before, and I'll say it again: Yuna and Zidane are the only two that are faster than Yuri. Ricardo is coming into this fight with bars of stock, so he could EASILY combo into Shania using Evil Crest. Yuna misses the OHKO on both Yuri and Shania by ~.1 in terms of the Kill Point. Once Yuri gets a turn, I laugh at their speed, and have my SDEF buffed like crazy too. Blanca has Arc Gale to ensure that Shania gets a turn before average, which everyone on the enemy team but Yuna and Zidane are BELOW.
If Shania gets a turn before Yuri? Hey, she just doubles Sanlittobell/Shining Zephyr for what is essentially a full heal to my whole team.
I am not in danger here.
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Mia can tweak her speed to go after Blanca and Ricardo, so she can time her offense with Alex just fine. I also have to note -everybody ignored that Kyle also has MT damage-, which stacks a little extra against Magic's team.
Unless there's something that LOWERS her Agility while she's using the Wind Cane... No, she can't.
Wind Cane Mia is ONE point lower in Agility than Nash, (so the order in my line-up is Mia -> Jessica instead of Jessica -> Mia), so unless there's something that lowers her Agility by... Exactly 8, there's nothing she can do.
If it's to her advantage not to use the Wind Cane, why would she? It may be more advantageous for her in this fight to forfeit Wind Cane and go for Dragon Cane with its higher damage and easier time lining up her offense with Kyle and Alex.
Also, Shania is slower than Yuri. She's not getting a turn before him. Also, Terra being below average speed is arguable! Gogogogo accessory interps that turn Sneak Rings into the trash they rightfully should be.
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Mia can tweak her speed to go after Blanca and Ricardo, so she can time her offense with Alex just fine. I also have to note -everybody ignored that Kyle also has MT damage-, which stacks a little extra against Magic's team.
Unless there's something that LOWERS her Agility while she's using the Wind Cane... No, she can't.
Wind Cane Mia is ONE point lower in Agility than Nash, (so the order in my line-up is Mia -> Jessica instead of Jessica -> Mia), so unless there's something that lowers her Agility by... Exactly 8, there's nothing she can do.
If it's to her advantage not to use the Wind Cane, why would she? It may be more advantageous for her in this fight to forfeit Wind Cane and go for Dragon Cane with its higher damage and easier time lining up her offense with Kyle and Alex.
That can't be possible. Wind Cane-less... This means Alex fails to land a killing blow because sleep will be healed, Yuri can cast For Tomorrow, and Shania can double Sanlittobell and Shining Zephyr (if my team still needs healing) or Sun Flare (for PAIN). Lucia then chimes in with Evil Crest on Mia, to embarrass her damage. Mia is 69 AGI to a 79 average and SD of 8.3 and goes after Kyle (who is still going after the rest of my team) without the cane. With the cane, she has 89 AGI, which as stated before, is only a point below Nash.
Also, Shania is slower than Yuri. She's not getting a turn before him. Also, Terra being below average speed is arguable! Gogogogo accessory interps that turn Sneak Rings into the trash they rightfully should be.
Never said otherwise. I just meant faster than Average, which Arc Gale just makes... Crazy, in case you see Yuri as being too slow to not die beforehand.
In any case, the real targets are Blanca and Ricardo for death/status, since Ricardo's still coming in with stock, and that means free turn to Shania for Sanlittobell/Shining Zephyr or Yuri's For Everyone. Whatever status Zidane inflicts, Blanca can heal because he's faster than Ricardo.
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On the other hand, unless I'm recalling horribly wrong, sleeped enemies -lose their turn if they're woken up- in Lunar (this is part of why Sleep kicks ass in-game!). The CT gauge is reset in practical terms. I'd even agree with you if that weren't the case, but. You're not really making a ton of headway in the fight throughout. On the other hand, your SP should hold out longer than Alex's MP, and the fight is pretty much under control if he runs out of resources. My problem, though, is mostly how you're handling Kyle+Mia -and- healing status along the way -and- patching things up - my gut is that you probably need to -buff- too at some point if you want to put your head above water. At this point, Dhyer might well come up with SH2 recharge rates and making things sketchier too. >_> Although I'll be perfectly honest and say that the Lunar fight doesn't -seem- where you'd lose if you do (if you falter anywhere, I'd gather it'd be in the PS4 fight where Rika+Chaz MT 2HKO Yuri+Shania+Lucia while leaving everybody else dented with Holy damage before anyone in your team gets a turn and then Wren and Rune completely wreck everybody's shit with more MT 2HKO before you can even muster a comeback). I'll have to check it out later.
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How useful is Zidane's status going to be, though? Mini and Blind are the only ones they can't block and that's not really making waves (Blind is -useless- against a mage/ITE team, and Mini just hurts their durability, not even touching the skillset), let alone being pure single-target. Terra honestly looks leagues more dangerous with the mdur and possibly MT OHKO on Ultima (if Ultima still manages to hit 9k unfocused due to Morph's damage boost, that's pretty much gg to the entire team). This is pretty important because they're actually actively -bad- at killing Terra with her elemental spoiling/across the board durability/evade combo. Yuri+Shania could try draining her MP, but with evade+mdef+huge MP pool, I'd be skeptical at their capability to even drain enough to keep her from casting Ultima. And, of course, either Yuri or Shania die first thing with Yuna spamming OHKO with weakness Holy. That's kind of a messy fight.
Sleep's probably the most relevant one he has but looking at the stat topic, Mini is surprisingly nasty. Also, keep in mind that the number of status blockers is starting to become relevant. They need petrify and ID at the very least because otherwise Nash and and the PS4 fight go LOL ID and might want to block silence as well as a result everyone is losing a bit of durability from dropping the defensive accessory which should make Holy/Pearl/Ultima a pretty clean OHKO.
Edit: Snow's right, PS4 fight makes it simple. Chaz, Rika and Wren go before everyone and blow the team up with Megid, Disrupt, Positron Bolt.
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Mini is nasty defensively, but it's not really slowing down their offense. Given how MT and mage-bent the team is, Mini is kinda pointless. I'm not sure Zidane even -has- Sleep, too! Also, I think Morph'd Pearl doesn't need more than weakness-hitting to OHKO - heck, Fire3 is OHKO-level damage as is. >_> Just saying that Zidane's not much of a factor in the fight, come to think of it. But, all in all, if Ultima OHKOs average unfocused, Magic blitzes her or dies, and Magic's team has issues doing that.
(Also, I like how nobody else touched the insanity that is the PS4 fight in terms of MT offense alone.)
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Yeah, I did the math Megid, Positron Bolt, Disrupt is something like 3.3 average before the Holy weakness is taken into account and the slowest of the 3 is 110% average. The Final Fantasy fight was the one that made me go Fuck That Floor for my team, but the PS4 fight is almost as bad.
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Annnd welcome to yet another chapter of "PS4 PCs as dungeon enemies are evil incarnate".
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Yeah, I did the math Megid, Positron Bolt, Disrupt is something like 3.3 average before the Holy weakness is taken into account and the slowest of the 3 is 110% average. The Final Fantasy fight was the one that made me go Fuck That Floor for my team, but the PS4 fight is almost as bad.
110% average in a straight TB system where even the listed average is wrong (it's actually 51 if you go through the numbers individually).
Calculated numbers:
Standard Deviation is 8.44
Rika is +1.65 SD
Chaz is +.59 SD
Wren is +.24 SD
Rune is perfectly average.
After weakness, Rika and Chaz put out 502 damage, or 2.27x average damage. Misses a kill on both Yuri and Shania, and both Blanca and Ricardo are getting a chance to heal with Aurora/throw Gale on Shania before Wren is getting a chance to move.
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Rika gets a damage boost if she goes for weakness-hitting. By the topic default, she equips only one claw and she can equip two. Also, Also, Wren+Rune get their turns at basically the same time and MT OHKO everything. Gale is utterly useless.
EDIT: Also, I very much hope you're not using the average that includes Alys and Seth, AKA the two PCs that don't exist in the endgame and were permanently written out of the plot beforehand.
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EDIT: Also, I very much hope you're not using the average that includes Alys and Seth, AKA the two PCs that don't exist in the endgame and were permanently written out of the plot beforehand.
My mistake, I WAS.
New average: 50.4444 (for Alys-and-Seth-B-Gone)
SD: 8.73
Rika: +1.67
Chaz: +.63
Wren: +.29
Rune: +.06
This changes... Little. Blanca casts Aurora. Ricardo pops Gale on Shania directly, or just pops Evil Crest on Chaz to combo into Shania for Sanlittobell/Shining Zephyr Double. Chaz's Megid is neutered at the same time that Shania's getting her turn to buff, and then I just laugh at the team there, since my speed is so much crazy better now, and my defense is higher.
So, if Rika pops two Silver Tusks, that's... (143+307)*1.25 damage, or 562.5 damage, which is 2.54x average damage. Probably kills Lucia easily enough, but that's about .16x average too short to take down Yuri and Shania.
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What's the gameplan after the first turn though? PS4 characters can buff as well and in general their buffs are more effective than Shadow Hearts buffs. In particular, Rika can murder your team's speed with Illusion and buff up her team's with Saner, if Wren gets a turn then he's putting up Barrier which essentially halves your teams damage output. You're hyping a mediocre 33% speed buff as granting your entire team the ability to do things like 3-2 Nash which seems extremely overhyped to me.
Edit: Reminder that Rune has 100% MT Silence so he has to go before he gets a turn or everyone has to dedicate 3 accessories to status blocking.
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What's the gameplan after the first turn though? PS4 characters can buff as well and in general their buffs are more effective than Shadow Hearts buffs. In particular, Rika can murder your team's speed with Illusion and buff up her team's with Saner, if Wren gets a turn then he's putting up Barrier which essentially halves your teams damage output. You're hyping a mediocre 33% speed buff as granting your entire team the ability to do things like 3-2 Nash which seems extremely overhyped to me.
You haven't seen the Shadow Hearts 2 topic by Dhyer, then. It pretty clearly states that Lucia (who is 96.5% CTB speed) goes up to 190% CTB speed after one casting of Gale. Other characters are faster, so they'll benefit almost as much as Yuri (who, FE'd, goes up to 210% CTB speed).
PS4 speed (de)buffs are active the turn AFTER they're cast, due to the way the system works... If she's spending her time casting buffs/debuffs, then I also get to have fun things, like a For Everyone'd, Entrance'd For the Children, as well as really screwing up Chaz's offense by dropping Megid's damage by 36% due to the debuff from Evil Crest on... Blanca, Ricardo, AND Lucia.
Hell, I still have an argument to have Blanca Arc Gale the team, Ricardo cast EntranceBlanca cast Aurora and Ricardo Double Gale and Entrance on Yuri, then have Yuri (who is TONS faster thanks to Arc Gale, easily faster than Wren now (but I've healed if you don't think I have)) use FtC to deal about 1200 damage to an 850 Kill Point.
Edit: Reminder that Rune has 100% MT Silence so he has to go before he gets a turn or everyone has to dedicate 3 accessories to status blocking.
Not sure why three. Leonardo Bears catch ID, Cosmic Bracelets catch Poison and Seal. All the other status on the floor can be dealt with since it's ST, or non-threatening in the long run. (Don't try to hype Nash's non-sleep status, the AoE on those is tiny and almost can't hit more than one person.)
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Rika only equips one Silver Tusk and equips another Guardian Claw, making her attack a bit higher than what you noted. Also, when hitting weakness, PS4 applies the weakness to both weapon hits - thus why she doesn't need to equip two Tusks, which I'm not sure she can even do (don't think there's a second ST) and honestly doesn't matter, Silver Tusks are weaker than the Guardian Claw.
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Rika only equips one Silver Tusk and equips another Guardian Claw, making her attack a bit higher than what you noted. Also, when hitting weakness, PS4 applies the weakness to both weapon hits - thus why she doesn't need to equip two Tusks, which I'm not sure she can even do (don't think there's a second ST) and honestly doesn't matter, Silver Tusks are weaker than the Guardian Claw.
Fine, damage goes up by 18*1.25, or ~23. She needs ~35 points of increase in damage for it to kill Shania.
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What's the gameplan after the first turn though? PS4 characters can buff as well and in general their buffs are more effective than Shadow Hearts buffs. In particular, Rika can murder your team's speed with Illusion and buff up her team's with Saner, if Wren gets a turn then he's putting up Barrier which essentially halves your teams damage output. You're hyping a mediocre 33% speed buff as granting your entire team the ability to do things like 3-2 Nash which seems extremely overhyped to me.
You haven't seen the Shadow Hearts 2 topic by Dhyer, then. It pretty clearly states that Lucia (who is 96.5% CTB speed) goes up to 190% CTB speed after one casting of Gale. Other characters are faster, so they'll benefit almost as much as Yuri (who, FE'd, goes up to 210% CTB speed).
PS4 speed (de)buffs are active the turn AFTER they're cast, due to the way the system works... If she's spending her time casting buffs/debuffs, then I also get to have fun things, like a For Everyone'd, Entrance'd For the Children, as well as really screwing up Chaz's offense by dropping Megid's damage by 36% due to the debuff from Evil Crest on... Blanca, Ricardo, AND Lucia.
Hell, I still have an argument to have Blanca Arc Gale the team, Ricardo cast EntranceBlanca cast Aurora and Ricardo Double Gale and Entrance on Yuri, then have Yuri (who is TONS faster thanks to Arc Gale, easily faster than Wren now (but I've healed if you don't think I have)) use FtC to deal about 1200 damage to an 850 Kill Point.
Edit: Reminder that Rune has 100% MT Silence so he has to go before he gets a turn or everyone has to dedicate 3 accessories to status blocking.
Not sure why three. Leonardo Bears catch ID, Cosmic Bracelets catch Poison and Seal. All the other status on the floor can be dealt with since it's ST, or non-threatening in the long run. (Don't try to hype Nash's non-sleep status, the AoE on those is tiny and almost can't hit more than one person.)
Alright, looking at the stat topic it looks like SH2 speed works is some weird exponentially increasing way that is tied to the stat rather than the buff itself. Okay so, Rika goes first and uses Illusion setting which reduces everyone on the teams agility to 0 but we'll say the turn order holds for this turn. Chaz goes next and Megids everyone. Blanca goes next and he has to Aurora or else Wren blasts them all with Positron Bolt, killing everyone. With Illusion in effect the Gale spells are worthless. Wren sets up Barrier turning the entire team into ridiculous magic tanks. Entrance and Barrier essentially cancel out and the PS4 team should be able to shrug off FtC and whatever Shania does. Next turn the PS4 characters all get their turns at once and Megid, Positron Bolt, Legion, Disrupt takes out the team.
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Just wondering if Magic's team will be able to take advantage of Ricardo/Lucia's MT Third Key effect skills this floor at all? Or if this build is too magic orientated for it to do much~
I know they were good with peeps like Joachim, Kurando, physical twinked Hilda, etc but not sure here.
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Alright, looking at the stat topic it looks like SH2 speed works is some weird exponentially increasing way that is tied to the stat rather than the buff itself. Okay so, Rika goes first and uses Illusion setting which reduces everyone on the teams agility to 0 but we'll say the turn order holds for this turn. Chaz goes next and Megids everyone. Blanca goes next and he has to Aurora or else Wren blasts them all with Positron Bolt, killing everyone. With Illusion in effect the Gale spells are worthless. Wren sets up Barrier turning the entire team into ridiculous magic tanks. Entrance and Barrier essentially cancel out and the PS4 team should be able to shrug off FtC and whatever Shania does. Next turn the PS4 characters all get their turns at once and Megid, Positron Bolt, Legion, Disrupt takes out the team.
If that's the case, I would like to remind that if Rika opens with Illusion... Ricardo has no reason to cast Gale, and instead Doubles Evil Crest and Entrance on Yuri. Yuri uses FtC, which the extra damage is cancelled out by Wren's Barrier... But For the Children also adds Prone to everyone, causing them to take double damage until their next turn. Rune gets out of this free, but he's the only one. Next, Shania Double Combos her physical and Sun Flare, and then Ricardo gets his next turn to cast... Evil Crest again. That should wipe out AT LEAST three, if not all of the PS4 team. (I'd gather that the (Element) Crest spells deal about 300ish damage on base). Also, that means Lucia isn't eating death, and that's a THIRD Evil Crest or a Bright Crest coming out before the end of the turn.
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Just wondering if Magic's team will be able to take advantage of Ricardo/Lucia's MT Third Key effect skills this floor at all? Or if this build is too magic orientated for it to do much~
I know they were good with peeps like Joachim, Kurando, physical twinked Hilda, etc but not sure here.
I think MP would be an issue, since I think they had aftergame level MP costs.
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Just wondering if Magic's team will be able to take advantage of Ricardo/Lucia's MT Third Key effect skills this floor at all? Or if this build is too magic orientated for it to do much~
I know they were good with peeps like Joachim, Kurando, physical twinked Hilda, etc but not sure here.
I think MP would be an issue, since I think they had aftergame level MP costs.
Very true. Ricardo's is 750(!) MP to use, and Lucia's is 900(!!!) to use. You typically aren't seeing them used in-game without some overleveling and Priest Earrings (MP Consumption -20%)+Oracle Earrings (Max MP +20%). Resourceless Stone is another story.
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Rika only equips one Silver Tusk and equips another Guardian Claw, making her attack a bit higher than what you noted. Also, when hitting weakness, PS4 applies the weakness to both weapon hits - thus why she doesn't need to equip two Tusks, which I'm not sure she can even do (don't think there's a second ST) and honestly doesn't matter, Silver Tusks are weaker than the Guardian Claw.
Fine, damage goes up by 18*1.25, or ~23. She needs ~35 points of increase in damage for it to kill Shania.
This is all well and good but I hope you have some means of getting people to go before Wren first turn or he just finishes what Chaz/Rika started, because unless SH2/3 speed is better than it looks, nobody's managing it going by the numbers in the topic.
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This is all well and good but I hope you have some means of getting people to go before Wren first turn or he just finishes what Chaz/Rika started, because unless SH2/3 speed is better than it looks, nobody's managing it going by the numbers in the topic.
New average: 50.4444 (for Alys-and-Seth-B-Gone)
SD: 8.73
Rika: +1.67
Chaz: +.63
Wren: +.29
Rune: +.06
Stat topic is a bit off on averages. Also, this is me assuming at 1 SD is equivalent to about 20% CTB speed, putting Wren at 105.8% average speed - slower than Blanca and Ricardo.
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Ah, taking SDs as lower than +/-25%. That would explain things, for all that I don't take that viewpoint.
(also dude I know the topic is off I think I pointed that out in chat ages ago, or if not was there when it was)
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Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5): By now, Rikku must have an OD built up. Null all mix and faceroll.
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse: Purim has status healing. Zidane has to go for her. OK's other 4 girls kill him. Locke, Karn and Vyse can score 1 kill in 2 turns but the 3 survivors then just round robin heal and win a nice slow fight, since those enemies can't 1 round anyone.
If every match before this doesn't matter, then the previous enemies have no reason to attack seemingly, so no reason Rikku would have an OD by then.
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Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper: Wait wait wait, there's no way in hell Red and Feena have enough damage between them to 2HKO Vesper, and Celes goes last in this battle. Blitzing him with the help of strago or ricardo obviously isn't an option, since unless they both cast their buffs, decus and cyril annihilate everyone but celes and feena, then keep doing it over and over when the revives are cast until celes and feena run out of MP. So... vesper gets a turn and gets to rip some MP off, as well as take some more damage. He probably goes after Feena's MP to put a cork on that insane MT healing. How does this change the battle?
The Celes-losing-the-speedbreak interp makes the fight tougher, but don't think it's fatal. Vesper gets a turn and MP drains Feena, sure. Celes casts MT Cure2 I suppose. Strago (remember that he speeds up every round he's not killed thanks to NeoSpeed) either GrandTrains or CleenSweeps and finishes off Vesper. (CleanSweep ignores split damage and apparently does double damage to Decus). Feena still has SP and some MP left (Vesper doesn't have a 100% MP drain it seems, just 75% or so) so she does something - maybe Alhealer to top the team off, MP permitting. Red attacks Decus. Ricardo, dunno, he probably has Stock he could blow if he wanted too, but let's say Gales Celes? (Arc Cure is also an option if still needed) The Gale should mean that even the stat topic Celes who is 1 point below average Speed w/ Equips might outrace the Wisemen and Bio Decus or something. Even if they resolve another set of MT spells, the team survives thanks to buffs, Strago has a double coming up, Decus dies round 3 at the latest if not before his 2nd turn, and Ricardo plays the MP regen spell while stalling out Cyril. (Not that the next fight is all that hard anyway.)
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Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5): By now, Rikku must have an OD built up. Null all mix and faceroll.
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse: Purim has status healing. Zidane has to go for her. OK's other 4 girls kill him. Locke, Karn and Vyse can score 1 kill in 2 turns but the 3 survivors then just round robin heal and win a nice slow fight, since those enemies can't 1 round anyone.
If every match before this doesn't matter, then the previous enemies have no reason to attack seemingly, so no reason Rikku would have an OD by then.
I responded to that already
Fast, active characters in FFX get ally mode really really really early in-game
stuff
Yeah, sounds fair enough. Pass for snowfire.
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Rikku needs 320 turns in order to get Ally mode, and this number is cooked to be low because she joins late; the other six PCs average 447, which I'd assign to her if we're allowing her to start building Overdrive modes before she'd join in-game. No way is this is happening by floor 2 based on normal in-game play.
That said, I could see a case being made for stalling out a battle for hundreds of turns (assuming the team can pull this off at some point) and getting the mode directly that way. No opinion there.
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The first three fights just won't hit anyone then. I'm assuming that dungeon enemies are smart enough to realize that if they basically have no chance, then they won't attack when someone can build up a limit (That said, I go by chances myself, but there's a 50% chance Nikki flat out IDs Rikku and a 25% chance Ice Sword Snowman misses-- assuming that it starts off at 75% of course, and a 20% Nikki gets a Quick and probably then goes before Yukiko anyways. Those are super nasty turn 1 off high speed. Let alone that those three may just barely scrape killing Nikki, and it's not a surety looking at it. Kyra's damage is probably below average?, Rikku is just weird. If Rikku is assumed to have some HP, then scaling wise that damage is worse).
Team Tal-Hatbot | White Wizard (DoS), Nash, Borya (Brey), Momo (With Enemy Skills) Angelo, Nall
[Floor 3a: A Singlet]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Hatbot vs. Chris, Rody (Firefly Rune (Not Sealstone)), Alanis and Melville- Huh, so are field target attacks just purely ST too? I'm assuming so, because at least as the first Nash attack is directed at Rody, they can't win. Alternately, it would then explain how anyone would get past Wall Rune-Firefly Rune.
Team Hatbot vs. Kiryl and Angelo
Team Hatbot vs. Flora (WoZ)
Team Hatbot vs. Atma Weapon
*Full Heal
Team Hatbot vs. Dario and Miguel
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
Speeds:
Strago: 115%ish, 50% MT ITD Magic
Red: 110%ish, 40% ITE Phys
Feena: 110%ish (Gutting here), 40%ish ITE Magic (Better than I see it, but just for argument sake)
Ricardo: 105%ish, 30% (MT?) Fire, 25% Phys or other elements
Celes: Average, 45% Ice Magic
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper- This is the one that apparentally, so...
For me the SO 2 enemies are about 2-2.5 PC HP
Decus: 85% MT Fire Magic, 55% MT Fire Phys, 25% Normal Phys
Vesper: 74% MP Drain
Cyril: 78% MT Wind Phys, 50% NE MT Magic
So the team can do 90% MT NE stuff, plus another 40% off Red. Now...it seems like Celes needs to go before Decus for sure. If so, 90% PC HP should finish him off with Red and Ricardo focusing. Feena or Strago now lacks MP (Now longer able to cast Zap Whip, Tree of Life or EotW or next match). Danger here is that I think Mind Absorber is pretty quick, so the team might eat 2.
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal- CC boss scaling is a mess, but Miguel is either fast and fairly durable, fast as hell and not durable, or CC boss scaling just reams them in general. Oh yeah, absolutely no MT can be used at all, which means
Strago: Blowfish (Yessssss) (15%, Clearly would not be on the offensive. As the second MP drain target)
Feena: Something quite bad as I'm assuming she's MT draining first. (10%?)
Celes: 45%
Ricardo: 25%
Red: 40%
While Miguel uses about 80% ST Damage, Zeal can adds 40% MT Damage, meaning that there's a death a round, but Big Guard cuts this to 80% if MP is there. The team does 135% a round if attacking all out. I think if they come into this match well heal, decently stocked on the right limits, and with only one person MP drained, they will be fine.
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs- Zera Paral is pretty damn accurate. Celes' evasion should save here against turn 1 though. Strago is gotten though. Zio does have about 50% MT Damage, and Mohs...is here. Feel like this match doesn't have any problem components, but Feena may need to blow a Tree of Life to get rid of status and heal at the same time perhaps.
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2)- Oh my head. So let's assume the team is here. The bad: these two are extremely durable, and there isn't a lot of the right damage here overall. Orgulla stays in Manes, buffs (with the Hasting), and then proceeds with Poizn. Crazy durability doesn't make this a bad strategy (and since you can't come in with limits here or else she goes first and drains them), works against that too. Meanwhile Patriarch goes around just statusing. But Feena's MT awesome healing helps here (2 shots though left though, so if they rack status up quickly, it's not lasting long).
So...this team I don't know. There's kind of a lot, because I don't feel like anyone here is particularly adept at finishing off bosses, and there are few whose durability I respect. They don't feel particularly great in a long slugging haul. My strong gut says that they fall at some point though.
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)- Later!
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. Alex, Jessica, Kyle, Nash and Mia
Team Magic vs. Jude, Raquel, Arnaud, Yulie and Kresnik
Team Magic vs. Dart, Rose, Albert, Miranda, Kongol and Haschel
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
Team Magic vs. Chaz, Wren, Rika and Rune
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Pass for Snowfire. I think Celes manages to pull him through most of the troublesome situations. Especially down with Vanish->Doom hype against bosses.
Pass for Team Shadow Hearts. I think the comboing system and Stock Guage abuse is enough to tilt the iffy matches in their favor. Also, those buffs are more effective than I realized. Interesting.
Fail for Team OK. Kinda sad how quickly Rikku got overwhelmed there.
Abstain on Team Hatbot.
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Dhyer, Ally OD mode is "get 4% gauge just for getting a turn"
Questionable legality for floor 2 and such, but I allow it, and you don't seem to realize what I've even been getting at.
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Dhyerwolf: On the SO2 Wisemen fight: Ah, higher boss HP respect than me, I see. Fair enough. I assume you also let Vesper's MP drain hit Grandia SP? Also, as a reminder, Red will be sneaking in extra turns when opponents use MT nukes by getting limits.
On Zeal / Miguel: Well, there's a Full Heal coming up after this fight, so if it'll finish Miguel off, Strago is probably willing to Grand Train and then just eat Zeal's arm MP-0 counter. Zeal alone is not really a threat so long as even one person has MT healing to deal with Hallation since her non-Hallation offense is bad. So Miguel should fall a bit faster than going strictly ST would indicate.
On the Patriarch / Orgulla fight... Ricardo has a status immunity song for everybody but him. True, I believe it goes away if somebody dies, but Patriarch + Eryu-Orgulla can't really kill anyone with damage short of waiting for the boost gauge to naturally fill up. So Poison / Slow isn't really a threat. (Plus, it's a 45% chance of Poison being added on her attacks anyway. And then she has to do it again to get the H-Poison, which does the really good damage. And I have a pile of status curing.) As for Orgulla's speed buff... as noted in my writeup, the problem is that Celes has Dispel and will spam that on Orgulla every turn. Eryu-Orgulla roughly doubles average with no buff, and triples post-buff... but... if she's spending one out of every of her 2.5 turns a round re-casting the buff, she's only getting 1-2 rounds of offense off at the cost of Celes losing her turn. And Celes will be Galed or Hasted to help keep up. Better to just stick with 2 natural turns of offense a round. Problem is that without the Poison stacking on damage, Eryu's offense just kind of sucks. 350 damage to 1300 avg. HP is .27 PCHP. Twice a round is .54 PCHP single target. Or she can go with her MT attack of .15 PCHP, or .30 PCHP a round. That's easily and cheaply healed off as well. Ricardo can play the MP-regen song too for a long fight. If you let Osmose work on XS2 bosses, then Celes will never run out of MP at least, and can spam Life3.
Orgulla's better off going with Manes, where she can at least disrupt my team's buffing game by killing a person a round.
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A note about SH speed buffs, looking over the buffs I realized something, if you throw out the fusions for average speed (which the stat topic does), the SH cast has a very very tight average speed range. The spread of speeds is 9 points (73 for Kurando to 64 for Gepetto) as a result, the SD is very very small so a 33% speed buff ends up boosting you up something like 5 SDs. This seems a bit excessive seeing as that is clearly not the effect the speed buffs had in game. Furthermore, if characters can be boosted up with the speed buff, than that also means that direct stat debuffs should effect them just as much. So the PS4 team will be doing something like Quadra Turning Magics after Illusion if you go by SDs.
Also if you go by SD then Magic's team loses the first fight as Nash splits Blanca and Ricardo's turns. He puts Yuri/Shania, Ricardo, and Lucia to sleep taking away their turns and Mia/Alex blow up the team with uninterrupted MT attacks.
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A note about SH speed buffs, looking over the buffs I realized something, if you throw out the fusions for average speed (which the stat topic does), the SH cast has a very very tight average speed range. The spread of speeds is 9 points (73 for Kurando to 64 for Gepetto) as a result, the SD is very very small so a 33% speed buff ends up boosting you up something like 5 SDs. This seems a bit excessive seeing as that is clearly not the effect the speed buffs had in game. Furthermore, if characters can be boosted up with the speed buff, than that also means that direct stat debuffs should effect them just as much. So the PS4 team will be doing something like Quadra Turning Magics after Illusion if you go by SDs.
Also if you go by SD then Magic's team loses the first fight as Nash splits Blanca and Ricardo's turns. He puts Yuri/Shania, Ricardo, and Lucia to sleep taking away their turns and Mia/Alex blow up the team with uninterrupted MT attacks.
Back up.
The reason we use SDs is so we can convert Turn-based systems into a CTB system for easier turn order. Shadow Hearts 2 and 3 are ALREADY CTB systems, thus don't use SDs.
In any case, if Blanca and Ricardo are going before Nash now, Blanca can just Arc Gale people and Ricardo uses Meteor Shower for status immunity to the party, which completely nullifies the Sleep strategy.
EDIT: This is ignoring the fact that Evil Crest (which Blanca, Ricardo, and Lucia all have) has that HUGE range I was talking about, easily dropping Mia and Alex's Special attack power by 36%. Makes it go from deadly to survivable.
Also being ignored is Ricardo's innate Fire-element, dropping both Flameria's and RDA's damage by 25% further.
EDIT2: Keep in mind that Blanca and Ricardo are close enough in speed, so if you see Blanca overturning a Nash turn, then Arc Gale will make Ricardo go before Nash as well.
Also, (de)buffs should reflect the game they're from, not who they affect. Saying that Rika's Illusion makes TG Cid from FFT get septa-turned or whatever seems wrong, since YOU WILL NEVER DOUBLE ENEMIES IN PS4 NATURALLY, EVEN WITH THAT. Having Haste and Slowed enemies in FFT, however, is entirely arguable for getting triple turns.
EDIT3: Also hahahaha Entrance can be comboed from, the PS4 team is SCREWED (just tested this). There is no need for a Double for Gale, just a combo straight into Yuri's turn for an unresisted Entrance'd For the Children.
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Team OK (Grrrl Power) | Rikku, Purim, Kyra, Yukiko, Rena
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. Flay and Nikki
Team OK vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team OK vs. Opera and Ernest
Team OK vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team OK vs. Locke, Karn, Zidane and Vyse - Of all things, I think team OK takes it worst from the Mana Khemia fight. I think Rikku's good status shit starts to show up only by floor 3, and while she could do some solid buffing all-around, having no revival just yet just means these guys -will- focus on people to get them down one by one. Nikki by herself has pretty good odds of even downing one of the girls before they get their first turn (Bear ID+the threat of Quick on -that- speed ain't pretty, and she's faster than Rikku first turn!). Ah well.
Team Tal-Hatbot | White Wizard (DoS), Nash, Borya (Brey), Momo (With Enemy Skills) Angelo, Nall
[Floor 3a: A Singlet]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Hatbot vs. Chris, Rody (Firefly Rune (Not Sealstone)), Alanis and Melville
Team Hatbot vs. Kiryl and Angelo
Team Hatbot vs. Flora (WoZ)
Team Hatbot vs. Atma Weapon
*Full Heal
Team Hatbot vs. Dario and Miguel - Silent Lake on the first fight. Tally-chu hates the universe forever and evermore. This floor is mean against mages.
Team Snowfire | Celes, Feena, Red XIII, Strago (Neo Speed), Ricardo
[Celes: Kirin (M), Siren (M) Shoat, Unicorn, Phantom, ZoneSeek, Tritoch, Phoenix] [Feena: All Eggs]
[Floor 6a: Underachievers]
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch - Okay, time to actually pay attention. Celes borderline solos the TotA losers (lololol vanish/elemental walling) and they're utterly, utterly inept at high HP. Not an issue.
Team Snowfire vs. Cyril, Decus and Vesper - Ricardo doing some buffing probably neuters the threat of the Wisemen. Feena+Celes+Red should manhandle Vesper at worst, too.
Team Snowfire vs. Miguel and Queen Zeal - Oooh, dicier. But I fail to see why couldn't the team just focus on killing Miguel first. Zeal is a total loser when she's not MT spoiling and hitting half HP range.
*Full Heal*
Team Snowfire vs. Zio, Zera Valmar and Mohs - Okay, now this is kinda dicy. Between Zio MT and Zera+Mohs, they can pick apart two people per turn. On the other hand, Ricardo slows -this- down and he's faster than non-Zera. Mohs is also pretty trashy and Zera is like 70% PC HP. >_> May work.
Team Snowfire vs. Patriarch and Orgulla (XS2) - Sure. There's just enough buffing and elemental walling here for Snowfire to be able to handle these guys. ALSO STRAGO CAN RIPPLER ORGULLA'S QUICK GOMGOMGOM
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. Alex, Jessica, Kyle, Nash and Mia - Okay, this is actually pretty complicated. Assuming Shania+Yuri constantly get hit by Sleep (viable), Ricardo plays off the buffing game, Blanca MT statusheals and Lucia can augment this game... but they're not making a ton of headway here and spending resources nobody's healing just keeping this up. Mia+Kyle alone are pretty good at setting up danger situations of "heal or Alex kills you" and Jessica has no problems patching single people up or mitigating a single member offensive pileup. But I don't think they're -good enough- to stop the team from keeping afloat eventually, unless the fight runs longer than 13 turns or so, in which case Berserk problems start showing up and Magic may not be able to afford that much SP healing. Pressure strong. But sure, let's say the team makes this fight.
Team Magic vs. Jude, Raquel, Arnaud, Yulie and Kresnik - Not really a huge problem. The whole team being entirely ST does suck and they -have- to keep Raquel from getting a turn (75 FP off the bat guyze watch the Intrudes fly like the wind), but that ain't too terribly difficult with Stock.
Team Magic vs. Dart, Rose, Albert, Miranda, Kongol and Haschel - Elemental weaknesses make this pretty easy too.
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna - Now, this gets increasingly dicier. Team Magic utterly -blows- at killing Terra because of the durability/elemental spoiling combo she's got going and she MT OHKOs the universe with Morph Ultima. Cecil and Yuna both can revive Terra just to keep the pressure going, and Yuna can (a) Shell Terra so they almost essentially can't kill her before getting a turn because their offense is almost all either magic or elemental (the basic physicals hit her evade and pdur and aren't enough either)/ (b) OHKO Yuri/Shania with Holy, which deflates the team offense considerably. Not good.
Team Magic vs. Chaz, Wren, Rika and Rune - The real nail on the coffin: I allow Illusion/Saner to have an effect immediately - turns being decided before the actions pan out feel like a property of TB systems to me, and otherwise the buffs apply to the stat immediately (the party gets the evade buff as soon as it's up in PS4, for instance). Thus, Rika Illusions/Saners and MT slaughter ensues. This floor 7 is pure, inadultered evil and I'm not sure you can even touch it if you don't have absolutely godlike MT status or offense running off Rika-or-better speed. I'm pretty sure the floor needs some rebalancing anyhow (Terra of the MT OHKO -and- PS4 teams? eeeeeeeeeeeeeew).
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Back up.
The reason we use SDs is so we can convert Turn-based systems into a CTB system for easier turn order. Shadow Hearts 2 and 3 are ALREADY CTB systems, thus don't use SDs.
In any case, if Blanca and Ricardo are going before Nash now, Blanca can just Arc Gale people and Ricardo uses Meteor Shower for status immunity to the party, which completely nullifies the Sleep strategy.
EDIT: This is ignoring the fact that Evil Crest (which Blanca, Ricardo, and Lucia all have) has that HUGE range I was talking about, easily dropping Mia and Alex's Special attack power by 36%. Makes it go from deadly to survivable.
Also being ignored is Ricardo's innate Fire-element, dropping both Flameria's and RDA's damage by 25% further.
EDIT2: Keep in mind that Blanca and Ricardo are close enough in speed, so if you see Blanca overturning a Nash turn, then Arc Gale will make Ricardo go before Nash as well.
Also, (de)buffs should reflect the game they're from, not who they affect. Saying that Rika's Illusion makes TG Cid from FFT get septa-turned or whatever seems wrong, since YOU WILL NEVER DOUBLE ENEMIES IN PS4 NATURALLY, EVEN WITH THAT. Having Haste and Slowed enemies in FFT, however, is entirely arguable for getting triple turns.
EDIT3: Also hahahaha Entrance can be comboed from, the PS4 team is SCREWED (just tested this). There is no need for a Double for Gale, just a combo straight into Yuri's turn for an unresisted Entrance'd For the Children.
Blanca and Ricardo are not both going before Nash using SDs. Blanca is +1.3 SD Nash is +1.29. The difference between the two is very, very, very slight. The speed average for SH3 is also a point below what it should be because it counts all three of Hildas forms instead of using an average of her three forms so everyone is a bit slower than the stat topic indicates.
Alright, if you don't think SDs are needed for CT based games like SH than stop doing things like hyping Lucia as being 190% after Gale. I'm assuming that Dhyer's topic uses SD for calculating speed after buffs and fusions because I really can't see how else he was able to calculate 94 compared to a 68 average as 190% average speed.
Finally, you're saying that Illusion should be taken as it is in game, but at the same time hyping Gale as letting you instantly double average characters, this is not how speed works in SHs which as far as I'm aware is a rather linear. Arc Gale is a good spell in game because it lets you get around 4 turns for every 3 of the enemy and that's a good advantage, but it's not as gamebreaking as you are making it out to be.
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Just as a Note: I really hope no one takes Vanish-Doom seriously in the Dungeon.
EDIT: Oh and Jo'ou, Silent Lake would only get one person due to the ST floor's way of handling things. (I mean Chris can just Silent Lake Nash or whatever, just sayin)
EDIT2: Dhyer, Rody just has the Firefly Rune, not the Wall Rune too.
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Dhyer is taking effective speed, actually. That's the actually verifiable effect in-game, but it hits a hard cap -and- both Gale spells suffer from pretty hefty recharge, which mitigates the first-turn effect. I'll also have to add to Magic's defense that using SDs for CTB systems is pretty um. >_>
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I still need to think about Team Tallybot, but Silent Lake shouldn't be TOO bad? It's either an unblockable ST Silence that lasts for 5 rounds or an unblockable ST Silence that also Silences Chris (making it ST for both sides), thus turning off her ability to toss more mages into the Lake. Even if the first interp is used (go go Merton hype on this floor?), there's enough mages that Chris has to spend all her time round-robining Lake to keep it up and not beating down, and she eventually runs out of charges.
Jo'ou, re: Zio / Zera / Mohs: Let's say Zera does something dangerous. At worst, Feena casts a Tree of Life to reset the Paralysis / Lightning damage / whatever. (Feena is resisting both status and Lightning so she definitely can do this.) Zera fails enough, and the team has enough offense, that Zera will never live to see round 2. Against just Mohs / Zio, the team should be able to tank their offense easily enough, especially post-Ricardo buff, so dropping Zera is all that really needs to happen. (So something like Red Bolt3 / Tree of Life / GrandTrain / EternalTreasure / Celes Ice3. Toss in an extra spell from Red if they triggered his limit.)
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Alright, if you don't think SDs are needed for CT based games like SH than stop doing things like hyping Lucia as being 190% after Gale. I'm assuming that Dhyer's topic uses SD for calculating speed after buffs and fusions because I really can't see how else he was able to calculate 94 compared to a 68 average as 190% average speed.
You assume wrong. SH2 speed is not linear, so the effective speed is not necessarily equal to just dividing the speed stats. It's not even the only game to do this...
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Yeah, I even glossed it over, Snowfire. I think you should still manage, barring Zera getting really lucky on a paralysis string, but how long do you have to let him live for -that- to pan out? You can more or less assume I think you make the Zio fight.
Also, I derped on Tally-chu. Will actually have to think about this. Damn ye. For all I'm not sure if it helps much, ST unblockable silence still spells some trouble for a frail, magic-heavy team.
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Saying that Rika's Illusion makes TG Cid from FFT get septa-turned or whatever seems wrong, since YOU WILL NEVER DOUBLE ENEMIES IN PS4 NATURALLY, EVEN WITH THAT. Having Haste and Slowed enemies in FFT, however, is entirely arguable for getting triple turns.
If you're trying to shoehorn PS4 Agility into being treated as CTB style speed an ability that nukes it ought to have an effect on CTB style speed, just sayin'. Yes, doing so grossly inflates the in-game worth of a trashy in-game move, welcome to the DL. Not that this seems to be relevent to your argument anymore, just felt like throwing this out there.
Meanwhile facepalm at dude for arguing SDs for CTB games. Seriously.
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I don't think it's relevant to that fight- they either go for the meganuke or blitz with MT moves of doom, or Magic squashes them. I don't think there is an outcome of the fight that isn't decided by the time Rika would get a second turn. I think he's got a reasonable argument to stop the PS4 fight myself, just getting that far is a problem.
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Also, pass for Team Snowfire. Poison, Dhyer? Against a team that can largely block poison? Am I missing something?
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Onto voting which I have been remiss on doing because lazy!
I'll buy Team Snowfire passing, since the arguments for look sound enough to me. Team Tal-Hatbot fails, on a kneejerk, this does not look like a kind floor to that sort of team. No vote on Team Magic due to unlimited SH works, abstaining on Team OK.
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I don't think it's relevant to that fight- they either go for the meganuke or blitz with MT moves of doom, or Magic squashes them. I don't think there is an outcome of the fight that isn't decided by the time Rika would get a second turn. I think he's got a reasonable argument to stop the PS4 fight myself, just getting that far is a problem.
Well, first fight might be largely mitigated by this:
Turn order is Nash -> Blanca -> Ricardo -> Alex -> Yuri -> Shania -> Lucia -> Kyle -> Mia.
Party order is Shania-Blanca-Lucia-Yuri-Ricardo, and assuming being hit by Sleep cancels the next turn (which I honestly don't know).
Nash casts Sleep on Blanca, catching Shania/Blanca/Lucia. Ricardo uses Arc Heal. Alex uses Red Dragon Anger. Yuri uses For Everyone. Kyle can probably hit... One person (he has no true MT, just a self-based AoE and a horizontal-LT), and Mia uses Flameria.
Thanks to the defense buff from For Everyone, I'll probably come out of that with one person dead (maybe two), but the others are stat-buffed to hell and back. After that, it's pretty easy to pick myself up after that mess. By now, Ricardo will probably have a bar of stock from being hit so much and so hard, so.
He pretty much needs to make sure he catches Shania, or else she just doubles Sanlittobell->Shining Zephyr to completely undo Alex's RDA (she's got the Dream Porter, so she starts with 2 bars of stock regardless).
I have a lot of threats that the Lunar team needs to nullify at once, and after using skills... Nash's probability of being able to hit more than two (if that) people with sleep plummets.
EDIT: If you're one that allows people to start with half-full bars... Ricardo can double Arc Heal to the party, then hit Alex with Evil Crest for that fun SATK Down 36% to help mitigate the damage.
They also need to take care to chip around Blanca Critical phase, because if they mess THAT up (and with the amount of MT going around, I wouldn't be surprised if they got caught in it...), Blanca gets crazygonuts faster. Pretty much a free Aurora there (and with that much MT going out, I wouldn't be surprised if they throw Blanca into critical for being unable to chip).
That, and Nash's sleep has a good argument for missing 1 of 3 people on turn 2.
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You're forgetting about Jessica though, Jessica physical + RDA + Flameria should be enough to kill Yuri, Lucia probably dies outright from RDA and Flameria, and Kyle can finish off Blanca on his turn. Nash may be fast enough that Shania and Ricardo can't lap him with the speed buff and they need to or he just cleans up with more damage or status. Assuming they do both lap him, there's still a lot to be done with reviving and taking putting pressure on the other team, that I just don't think they have the turns to do it.
Which makes me think that this floor needs to be toned down some, two fights with above average speed MT OHKO (Flameria with Wind Cane + RDA and PS4 fight) is really nasty not to mention the usual PS4 ID shenanigans and brutal FF slog.
Also, sorry about misunderstanding the SDs in CTB that was my bad.
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You're forgetting about Jessica though, Jessica physical + RDA + Flameria should be enough to kill Yuri, Lucia probably dies outright from RDA and Flameria, and Kyle can finish off Blanca on his turn. Nash may be fast enough that Shania and Ricardo can't lap him with the speed buff and they need to or he just cleans up with more damage or status. Assuming they do both lap him, there's still a lot to be done with reviving and taking putting pressure on the other team, that I just don't think they have the turns to do it.
Which makes me think that this floor needs to be toned down some, two fights with above average speed MT OHKO (Flameria with Wind Cane + RDA and PS4 fight) is really nasty not to mention the usual PS4 ID shenanigans and brutal FF slog.
It appears I had misjudged Lunar sleep before. Being hit while slept only increases physical damage, not magical damage. (Just tested it. Mia dealt 78 damage with Ice Daggers to the same enemy, both before sleep and after. Did it three times each to make sure the numbers weren't flukes).
If you're hyping Wind Cane Mia, then I just heal up with Ricardo since Arc Cure will mostly cancel out Flameria, making the rest of the fight less dangerous. If Dragon Cane Mia... Then Ricardo pops Eternal Treasure (or better yet, Evil Crest on Alex) to drop RDA's damage by about 30% (36% for the Evil Crest... And it does enough damage that he's in the threat zone of being killed the next turn) Entrance on Yuri, then Yuri just casts For EveryoneFor Tomorrow to blow up someone and heal my whole party. Again, Nash must absolutely get Shania, or else she just Doubles Sanlittobell/Shining Zephyr and I get to heal to full anyway. Shania-Blanca-Lucia-Yuri-Ricardo (or do I need to switch Blanca and Ricardo?) guarantee my way through this fight.
EDIT: Keep in mind, Nash's sleep is 90%, not 100%. If you go by straight percentages and averages, it's missing one of three people on the second cast (90%x3 = 100% + 100% + 70%, 90%x6 = 100% + 100% + 100% (First three being turn 1) +100% + 100% +40%) Just me forgetting things, nevermind this.
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EDIT: Keep in mind, Nash's sleep is 90%, not 100%. If you go by straight percentages and averages, it's missing one of three people on the second cast (90%x3 = 100% + 100% + 70%, 90%x6 = 100% + 100% + 100% (First three being turn 1) +100% + 100% +40%)
That is not how probabilities work.
The chance of a 90% odds succeeding 6 times in a row is 53.1%, which is higher than 50%. Of course if you're using a 66% threshold then there should be a miss in there somewhere. But I never understood that logic anyway.
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Teams Magic and Snowfire vs Dungeon.
Will think more on other teams later.
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Right. Should stop being lazy and vote other teams.
Team OK fails. I don't know Mana Khemia that well, but Rikku's starting HP is shaky at best for awhile after she joins, and the MK fight offers fast damage before the team can really respond. Which is a shame since Rikku's mixes are the only source of revival. Team OK is going to be under a pretty heavy threat afterward, and they have to go into fight 5 with the other 4 alive to have something approaching a shot. Considering the need to constantly cure Purim's status from Zidane's attacks and keep up healing the other boys off... and Vyse only gets scarier as the fight goes on as his SP piles up... yeah, that's trouble. Clearly OK chose poorly by sending his female team into Zidane & his bros dark clutches. (But yeah, Floor 3 would be a nightmare anyway, since Rikku is still the only reviver, and she just can't blitz the MT floor alone, and the ST floor is suicide with only half a reviver.)
Team Talbot fails. Not really on board for Atma Weapon hype unless the Flora fight really trashes their MP reserves, but I don't need to be since Dario + Miguel is kind of trouble for the team. The team just can't blitz bosses at all, Dario splatters somebody once a round, and Miguel splatters people every other round. If they can stay afloat, it's only barely and they're not really getting damage in. I guess Dario AI disrespect could turn it around for 'em, but eh.
Team Magic... hrmm. The Lunar fight makes my head hurt so I will skip it. WA4 + LoD fights are dealt with easily enough (no stating Dragoon for LoD).
Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia (Synergy)
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
The problem here is definitely Terra. Terra's Ultima is ITD so it can't be stat-buffed around and is going to wipe everybody but the Harmonixers; you need something like Shell to stop it, not SpD buffs. (Also FF6 stat topic is phrased a little oddly. Pretty sure Morph *does* help Ultima, just it only matters because it basically negates the split damage penalty, so.)
Turn order is something like:
Yuna -> Zidane -> Blanca -> Ricardo-> Yuri = Squall -> Knight -> Terra = Shania -> Lucia = Cloud -> Cecil
I don't buy a Yuna OHKO of Yuri or Shania either... but. So Zidane status Ricardo rather than finishing off Shania, sure, to forestall Entrance shenanigans. However, the deadly threat of Yuna Shells self -> Terra Ultima remains. Magic has Blanca, Yuri, and maaaaaaaaybe Shania (pretty much a tie there) before Terra blows up the world. Blanca can heal Ricardo's status, but that doesn't seem like a productive use of time. I guess he beats down somehow? Yuri.. he can do damage, but then there's Squall / Knight damage incoming, and Shania will at best coinflip with Terra. So let's say Yuri buffs, sure. Knight & Squall kill Blanca. Shania... okay, buffed, doubled Sun Flare probably kills Terra, since it's apparently Void. Thing is, stat topic says AoE. How big an AoE? (I didn't really bother with Shania's sidequest.) It isn't killing Yuna, since she's shelled, importantly. Lucia does something - Raise Up Blanca perhaps, or maybe status cure Ricardo if she has the right spells. Cloud smashes Ricardo / Blanca, whoever was refreshed by Lucia. (Now that I think about it, Blanca probably wants to have hit Cloud to make the Ultima Weapon less dangerous.) Cecil revives Terra. So in Round 2, ? people also got hit by Sun Flare, Yuna is buffed, but the SH squad got For Everyone'd and is buffed as well, but Shania is out of stock. I dunno - Yuna can still make herself super-aggravating for Team Magic, threatening to drop random Holy nukes and Arise'ing people as they die, and the SH team can never ever let Terra get a turn or else basically just lose. Any comments on how big an AoE Sun Flare is before I continue to think about this?
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It's not particularly large. About the same size as some of the other circle spells like Red Gravity. Bigger than the really small circle stuff like Bright Crime, but I want to say it's smaller than stuff like Floral Ray. Probably hit 2-3 people depending on how bunched they are because there are so many opponents, but it's possible to spread everyone out enough so it only hits one or two people at most. I don't think Shania can double up Sun Flare though, I'm pretty sure that for double attacks you have to use two different moves.
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Also never mind, checking chat, Morph doesn't affect Ultima after all. So split damage morphed Ultima isn't as terrifying as hyped and Magic can probably squeak by. Anyway, sure, I'll vote pass for Magic despite not knowing the PS4 fight that well.
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Finalized vote:
Pass for magic, snow, OK
Fail for tal
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Changing my vote to passes on Magic. For magic, looking at I'm convinced on fight 1, and Wren is slow than Ricardo and Blanca to me. Also helped is near null respect for Ultima!
Snowfire abstaining on.