-
Town Sanity Meter: 4/60 ("'... ... ...")
Definitely alive and sane:
6. Jack Daniels, town drunk (Makkotah), Vanilla Town (Formerly a Miller)
Around for finale in various states of mental health when game called due to scum resigning:
4. Nathan Greaves, journalist (Roukanken), Scum Reviver Doctor (probably lynched Day 7) (Can protect one person other than himself from normal nightkills. Can 'doc' dead players as well, and choose to revive them either fully or as voteless abominations that collapse after a day and can only talk. Can't revive scum, or at least not effectively; if he does so, the only result is flavor noting their return and prompt death, which doesn't cost town a lynch.)
13. Nikolai Kolmogorov, Russian mathematician / musician (Alice), Town Miller Rolecop (?) Self-Reviver (would go insane Night 7, after game is over)
14. Martin Andrews, prospective shop owner (Shale), Town Docproof (probably shot Night 6)
Shuffled off this mortal coil:
Jon Hutchins, Town NPC
9. Tyrone Callahan, stablemaster (EternalLurker), Town Bulletproof Shadow (lynched Day 1)
2. William Hellsnake, roaming bounty hunter (Magetastic), Town Bulletproof Miller Reviver (lynched Day 2)
1. Pietro Giovanni, mafia bootlegger (EvilTom), Town Paranoid Cop (knew he was paranoid) (murdered Night 2)
8. Ethan Hayles, local farmer/country bumpkin (Yoshiken), Scum Psychologist (lynched Day 3)
5. Seamus O'Malley, odd jobs man (Excal), Scum Docfather (Godfather variant) (lynched Day 4)
11. Kyle Handley, traveling salesman (Hunter Sopko), Town Megalomaniac (backup of various roles as they die: started vanilla, at time of death an Archivist, one-shot Doc, one-shot sanity-kill Doc) (murdered Night 4)
13. Nick Koupitoris, impostor of Nikolai Kolmogorov and delusional Greek cook (Alice), Town Miller Rolecop (?) Self-Reviver (lynched Day 5)
12. Samuel Hargreaves, veterinarian (lmm), Scum Roledoc (lynched Day 6)
Went crazy (and possibly also dead):
15. Moses Bike, retired fisherman (Xanth), Town Archivist (went crazy and jumped in a lake Night 2)
10. Chad Hutchins, football star (Sir Alex), Town Squeaky-Clean Doctor (went crazy and disappeared Night 3)
3. Peyton Hadley, former actor (Bobbin Cranbud), Town One-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard (went crazy and committed to asylum Night 4)
15. Gershom Bike, Moses Bike's brother (Xanth), Vanilla Town (went crazy and shot himself Night 5)
7. Mei-Fan Chen / Ronald Dale (???), scholar / burned-out novelist (Bardiche), Town Cop / Town Vigilante (Doesn't know he vigs his investigation targets as well) (went crazy and was devoured by Hounds of Tindalos on Night 6)
Day 0 character introduction: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4743.msg104232.html#msg104232
Day 1 final votecount: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104808.html#msg104808
Day 2 final votecount: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105500.html#msg105500
Day 3 final votecount: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106211.html#msg106211
Day 4 final votecount: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106606.html#msg106606
Day 5 final votecount: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106920.html#msg106920
Day 6 final votecount, and final showdown: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg107184.html#msg107184
Gatewalker will be co-modding, so if I'm not around, you can ask him for votecounts or the like.
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Setup notes:
* This game will have a stronger role-playing component than usual, but nothing will be required. Call it "RP-recommended;" there'll be no post restrictions, but if you get into character, that's cool.
* In that vein, every single character - scum and town alike - will have a DARK SECRET. This will be largely irrelevant to your in-game role and mostly fodder for the day-to-day writeups. Your secret could be anything from "You are a gay socialist" to "you are a 200 year-old warlock who must feed on souls." And both these characters might be townies.
* This is role madness, but hopefully not super-high-power-level role madness. Everyone will have a role, but many roles will be functionally vanilla - very minor or actively harmful. Flips are 100% reliable about alignment, and townie roles will have a full explanation as well, so you won't just see "Alienist" and wonder what on earth that does. Scum roles will also have an explanation but may not mention the full details, though what details you do see will be reliable. There'll be no alignment-switching powers nor any powers based on random chance (50% of X).
* Deadlines will be 72 hours.
Posting rules:
* Be civil. Insulting characters is fine, insulting players is not. Ignoring this will get you warned then modkilled.
* Don't quote PMs from the mod. This includes your role PM. Paraphrase it if you bring it up.
** ...and, as an extra layer of paranoia, I will offer writeups / rationalizations / flavor / etc. for any specified fake roleclaim upon request. Even if a paraphrase looks like it was based off something from the mod, don't take this as verification of the claim. (This rule is mostly to discourage metagaming based off which players know the setting.)
* No editing or deleting posts, and no posting at night or from beyond the grave, without mod approval.
* Rules for town: Town must lynch (barring the extremely unlikely circumstance of townies not having a majority, yet still having a win theoretically possible). If there is no hammer by deadline, the character with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the Day will continue in Sudden Death. If Sudden Death lasts longer than 24 hours then Azathoth, via its minion Hatbot, will be consulted for its opinion. If you are preparing a post / votechange near deadline and there is a huge rush of activity / ninjas, don't panic, tell the mod and there likely will be an informal 15-minute extension so you can get your post through, though nothing is guaranteed and more time than 15 minutes is unlikely.
* Rules for scum (and third parties, if any): ???
Some notes on flavor. As noted before, every character in this game has a "Dark Secret." Many of these will likely be revealed over the course of the game. I'm a big fan of flavor myself, but don't want it to override the *game* aspect. So, two disclaimers.
* I wrote up a list of characters and the Dark Secrets attached to them *before* I generated roles and alignments. In cases where the old Secret made no sense - perhaps, say, for scum - they still kept that secret but as a "fake" secret which would be written in the flavor anyway as a red herring. In other words, attempting to rolefish from flavor revelations will *fail miserably* here. You have been warned.
* I may reference public roleclaims, flavorclaims, and the like in the open-the-day posts. Do not take this as mod verification of them being true. To the extent that they come up, I'll treat any public roleclaim as legit even when it's not.
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Jon Hutchins, Town NPC, has been killed!
Sherrif Hutchison looked at the array of suspects.
"Let's make this easy. If you did it, we'll find you anyway, so just confess. We'll make the hanging quick and clean and with no errors. Better 'n you deserve for killing a leading citizen like Jon!"
"... no takers? Well, let's hear yeh discuss who you think did do it, then!"
Votes:
None!
Day 1 will end in 74 hours at 1:00 PM EDT, Tuesday.
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Yer sayin' the old man's been killed? If there's one thin' I been taught about workin' down on th'farm, it's that ye never trust a snake, nome.
##Vote: William 'Ellsnake
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Easy now, snakes is fine, 'long as you leav 'em be an' don' startle 'em.
Foreigners is another matter though. Don't like 'em, never have.
##Vote: Nikolai Kolmogorov
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"*Hic.* A good man is dead. I don't know about you folks, but there ain't a man in this town who wouldda done him in."
/me waves his bottle in the general direction of the outsiders.
"Yeah, I'm talkin' about you fucks. Time was shit like this... shit like this just didn't happen.
Now which onna you god damn kraut-sympathizin' red slave ownin' PROHIBITIONIST COMMIE SONS OF BITCHES murdered him?
/me walks up to Kyle, prodding him forcefully with one hand while propping himself up on Kyle's shoulder with the other.
Never trust a salesman. I gotta hunch.
##Vote: Kyle Handley.
(We don't need no stinkin' Monorail thingamajigger.)
-
/me stands up and pushes between Kyle and Jack Daniels.
You drunken fool, whadya think you doing? Leave this poor fellow alone, you aint know he done nothing wrong! You better pull yourself together or I'm gonna have to do it for you, capiche?/me pushes Jack back down into a chair.
Now there's no need to kick up a racket, we just gotta be organized, see? Don't worry boys, I'll find who did this and they're gonna be sleepin' with the fishes tonight.
Jack; Jack Jack Jack. I appreciate a good customer, but you've just gotta learn to hold your health tonic. And all this cursing won't do, you'd better show a bit of respect, y'hear? And like I was sayin', you seem pretty eager to point that shaky little finger of yours. Got something to hide, Jackie-boy?
-
Hmph. This is getting in the way of work, damn it. I have more important things to do than waste my time with you pansies.
##Vote: Seamus O'Malley
Kids ain't s'posed to be gettin' mixed up in stuff like this.
-
/me props himself up against the wall, setting the hooch down on a nearby table. He looks Peitro up and down and decides that discretion is the better part of not fucking with the wrong people.
Jon was a good man, is all. We served in the war together.
/me sits down at the table.
Hearin' Jon's dead just riles me up. But yer right, this ain't the time. Don't think this don't mean I ain't got my eye on you, salesman. I don't like the way you keep splittin' in two.
-
Kyle looks fairly undisturbed by Jack's accusation. On the contrary, the gears in his head begin to spin quickly as he begins to see the opportunity to make some sales here! He casually smooths out the ruffles Jack made in his suede vest and adjusts the wicker hat on his head. All told he looks more like a barber than a salesman, but he's always found that the association people make to that respected profession has always helped him in the long run.
"Now now, good sir! Who said anything about a monorail! Everyone knows that any good train has two beams to travel upon! Any less would be a fool's errand, boy howdy! Not that getting the town to connect to the rail lines wouldn't hurt it. Just look at what happened in Ogdenville, Brockway and North Haverbrook! A rail station put them on the map, by golly! No, I'm a purveyor of more pedestrian fare."
Kyle brings the large case he is carrying to the fore, extending the legs built into the side and opening it for everyone to see it's contents! As he said, fairly pedestrian. Combs, some tonics, ties of various colors, etc. "Nothing suspicious here except the prices! You'd think I were giving them away for this quality! Like this aftershave!" He brings the bottle to his nose and sniffs it appreciatively, "All the rage in New York, Boston and even gay Pari~! Sure to leave you smelling the bee's knees for your special lady! All for the low price of fifty cents a bottle, and I'd even throw in a gen-u-wine silk tie, all the way from China! But look at me going on, this is no time to be making a pitch. A poor man's lost his life and he deserves respect."
-
There's... whoah. What's going on? I don't even... know, I guess. Bunch of jokes going 'round. Hmmm... could put those in my book... if I remembered what the damn thing's about.
God. What did I do last night? I don't know, but I know I sure ain't a killer. My books aren't even doing killer... what was the last one I wrote?
Anyway, let's push this outta them jokes, aye? There's this... what'shisname... Pietro was it? Pietro feller who's been makin' noise but not doin' much. Yeah, I get it's jokevote phase, not much to go on man but... 'least make a vote, summit, yeah? You're jus' standing there criticising people's jokevotes but no' doing much.
##VOTE: Pietro
Salesman's spending jokevote phase just giving a salespitch... what the hell's his name anyway? What was it? Lyle?
-
"Hellsnake, you disgustin' lil' creep!" Ty roared, slamming a fist into the table at which he -- and some unfortunate others -- sat. Glasses rattled and shattered as he leapt to his feet, locking his furious gaze on the man he addressed, the fingers of his left hand twitching at his waist as if ready to grab a weapon. "You just fucking waltz into our town and think you got any right to be accusing anyone else of anything?! Can't say I know Seamus well enough yet to vouch for him, but I'd sure as hell bet on him being more innocent'n you, you lil' scum! Apologize! Ain't no one here I'd suspect more'n you anyway!"
##VOTE: William Hellsnake, barring a really good apology
-
There's... whoah. What's going on? I don't even... know, I guess. Bunch of jokes going 'round. Hmmm... could put those in my book... if I remembered what the damn thing's about.
God. What did I do last night? I don't know, but I know I sure ain't a killer. My books aren't even doing killer... what was the last one I wrote?
Anyway, let's push this outta them jokes, aye? There's this... what'shisname... Pietro was it? Pietro feller who's been makin' noise but not doin' much. Yeah, I get it's jokevote phase, not much to go on man but... 'least make a vote, summit, yeah? You're jus' standing there criticising people's jokevotes but no' doing much.
##VOTE: Pietro
Salesman's spending jokevote phase just giving a salespitch... what the hell's his name anyway? What was it? Lyle?
Jokes, friend?
I don't see anything to laugh about - and you giving the stink-eye to Mr. Giovanni when he's provided us all with this refreshing... tonic... seems a sight ungrateful, just on account of his breaking up a fight.
I'm all for finding out who killed Hutchins, but I don't expect the truth to turn up on account of we started slinging mud like we're on the stump for Smith - or Hoover, if that's your persuasion. Maybe it's time to play peacemaker and maybe you're right and it ain't, but give the man time to get his wits about him before he starts making a ruckus.
Not to mention that business about killer books. I'll have you know that's no laughing matter, there... friend?
No laughing matter at all.
##VOTE: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
::Peyton is NINJA'd (Bloody Tongue'd?) by Tyrone Callahan::
Easy there, friend! Making this a matter of locals and loiterers doesn't do any of us any good.
Least of all my humble self.
In fact, that's the second vote on Mr. Hellsnake, ain't it? And not a bit of thought behind either of 'em, which is more than I can say for Mr. Dale, who I don't agree with but at least gives me something to disagree on account of. Allowing there's thought to be had in that muzzy head of his, I mean.
##UNVOTE: Ronald Dale
##VOTE: Tyrone Callahan (EternalLurker)
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::Peyton is NINJA'd (Bloody Tongue'd?) by Tyrone Callahan::
Maybe it's the hooch, or maybe I'm just breaking role, but what in god's name does that mean?
I'd appreciate it if this nonsense were made more clear.
-
"Aw, man. You're telling me that Hutchison wasn't even his name? Now I need to come up with another headline later..."
Nathan scribbles at his notepad, hastily running a line through the larger text at the top of the page. For a moment, he seems frustrated, but his attention soon turns to other matters.
"Hey, Mr. Hadley. Just for the record, why're you so hasty to jump on that Callahan fella? So he made the second accusation on someone - isn't it sort of early to accuse someone of trying to start a bandwagon when nearly half the men here haven't even spoken yet?"
##Vote: Peyton Hadley
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::Peyton is NINJA'd (Bloody Tongue'd?) by Tyrone Callahan::
Maybe it's the hooch, or maybe I'm just breaking role, but what in god's name does that mean?
I'd appreciate it if this nonsense were made more clear.
::The Cult of the Bloody Tongue is an African cult dedicated to Nyarlathotep in Call of Cthulhu. In the beginning of the famous adventure Masks of Nyarlathotep, members of the cult sneak into an NPC's apartment and murder him - like ninjas.
I couldn't think of a more appropriate Mythos-specific term for being ninja'd, but suspect one exists.
Dimensional Shambler'd, perhaps?::
"Aw, man. You're telling me that Hutchison wasn't even his name? Now I need to come up with another headline later..."
Nathan scribbles at his notepad, hastily running a line through the larger text at the top of the page. For a moment, he seems frustrated, but his attention soon turns to other matters.
"Hey, Mr. Hadley. Just for the record, why're you so hasty to jump on that Callahan fella? So he made the second accusation on someone - isn't it sort of early to accuse someone of trying to start a bandwagon when nearly half the men here haven't even spoken yet?"
##Vote: Peyton Hadley
Too early to accuse someone of starting something? Or early enough for someone who isn't to start it, and say it is? What better time to start putting together a lynch mob than when half the folks who'd make it up haven't rightly got their heads straight?
For that matter, if you don't mean much of anything with your vote, why cast it somewhere someone else already did? It doesn't do any good at all and it can do plenty of harm, if folks forget when and how those first two votes slipped on.
It may well be nothing - why, it probably is, this early - but it's more of a something than anything else I've seen so far.
-
"Ain't anythin' like that 'loiterers 'n' locals' shit, Peyton. I used to make my livin' off tourists, and I'm one of the first friendly faces travelers see here; wasn't I one o'the first to meet you too? Seamus ain't a local any more 'n' Hellsnake, but Seamus ain't the one makin' random accusations about people he doesn't even know! Ain't nothin' more suspicious'n someone who makes an accusation without evidence. Which, ya know, makes you pretty damn suspicious yourself. 's why you've got Greaves here wondering about ya."
Turning to the journalist on that final note, Ty reminded the man, with a friendly nod, "We're all a lil' tense here, Nathan. I think Peyton's just tenser'n most cuz he's worried he'll be suspected just on account of being new in town. I don't think that's reason to suspect the man."
He leaned against the nearest wall with a tired sigh, eying curiously the only person he could be (reasonably) certain was innocent. "So, let's get some reasons, then. The Sheriff tells us Jon had a fancy dagger in his back at the Order's lodge. You all know I don't really get much about the Order, so any of ya who do wanna tell me if that dagger's something the Order has lying around the place? If not...well, I gotta suggest that anyone who's willing to throw away that kinda money leaving an expensive dagger at the corpse might be...pretty rich." He motioned towards the salesman Jack had initially addressed in his (likely feigned) drunken rage.
-
Votecount!
William Hellsnake [2]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley [1]: Jack Daniels
Seamus O'Malley [1]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [ 0]: Peyton Hadley,
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [1]: Peyton Hadley
Peyton Hadley [1]: Nathan Greaves
There's ~66 hours left in the day. With 15 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
EDIT: I am an idiot.
-
::Peyton is NINJA'd (Bloody Tongue'd?) by Tyrone Callahan::
Maybe it's the hooch, or maybe I'm just breaking role, but what in god's name does that mean?
I'd appreciate it if this nonsense were made more clear.
::The Cult of the Bloody Tongue is an African cult dedicated to Nyarlathotep in Call of Cthulhu. In the beginning of the famous adventure Masks of Nyarlathotep, members of the cult sneak into an NPC's apartment and murder him - like ninjas.
I couldn't think of a more appropriate Mythos-specific term for being ninja'd, but suspect one exists.
Dimensional Shambler'd, perhaps?::
(Ah. Thought it was some role-related thing. That makes sense, thanks for clearing it up. A more in-character post to come when I'm less in dire need of a nap.)
-
He leaned against the nearest wall with a tired sigh, eying curiously the only person he could be (reasonably) certain was innocent. "So, let's get some reasons, then. The Sheriff tells us Jon had a fancy dagger in his back at the Order's lodge. You all know I don't really get much about the Order, so any of ya who do wanna tell me if that dagger's something the Order has lying around the place? If not...well, I gotta suggest that anyone who's willing to throw away that kinda money leaving an expensive dagger at the corpse might be...pretty rich." He motioned towards the salesman Jack had initially addressed in his (likely feigned) drunken rage.
"Well, well, now there's an odd accusation if ever I heard one! You might even call it a rich accusation! And if you believe it, well, I've got a bridge I can sell ya!" Haw haw. "Don't let the clothes fool you, my good man. I'm a travelling salesman for good reason. Gotta stay on the move if I'm to keep my stomach full and debts paid, after all! Haven't the time to invest in such fruitless endevours like murder. Dirty, ugly business, murder. Wholly bad for sales of any kind."
-
"Hey, I ain't sayin' it's gotta be you, and I don't think it is, neither." Ty raised his hands apologetically. "I'm just trying to figure out what evidence we've got here, and it's damn near none says the Sheriff. And instead of facts'n ideas, all I'm hearin' is people whining they don't like each other. So how's about we get some thought outta people here, like Peyton asks?"
-
... Pop's gone.
I still can't really believe it.
Well... well dang, man. Dang.
Chad, finally speaking up, walks over behind Mr. Callahan and Mr. Hayles and matches their glare towards Bill Hellsnake.
##Vote: Bill Hellsnake
I ain't got nothin on nobody yet but might as well start somewhere. Whatcha talkin' about saying kids shouldn't get involved? You tryin to tell me to go home when someone killed my Pop?
-
Yeah, I was fishing out up near the lodge last night. Silver Lake's been getting quiet of late and a change of scenery never hurt no one. I didn't see nothing out of the usual, unless you count those garpikes. We've been getting swarms of the buggers up here lately, and you don't want to be confusing them with sturgeons any time fast, oh no.
Now, if you ask me what I might have heard, then maybe I can be a little more helpful. Chanting. Out back somewhere near the lodge. Didn't pay it no mind at the time. Leave your neighbor be, right? That and I'd just got the line stuck in a tree again, but then that's what I get for mouthing off about Silver Lake. Anyway, I'm thinking now it must have been them that did the poor guy in. Weren't many of them. Must've only heard about two or three of them chanting.
Maybe this'll end nice and easy like and you can let me go back to check on the lake soon, but if I were guessin' the sort to be in this business, it'd have to be long time locals, several generations down most like. All traditional values like, and doing well for theirselves. Yeah, I reckon someone like you.
##Vote: Tyrone Callahan (Eternal Lurker)
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A burst of laughter cut off the fisherman's smug accusation. "I'm inclined to believe yer story, Bike, since it means I'm the last suspect on yer list. I wasn't even born in Marbury myself. Neither were you, right? Doesn't surprise me, then, that you're so detailed to make sure ya ain't a suspect. Frankly, I don't believe a word o'what ye just made up to cover yer own ass."
##Vote cancel: Bill Hellsnake
##New vote: Moses Bike
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/me casually leans against the nearest wall
Hmph. Trapped in a room of windbags. Just what I need.
##Unvote: Seamus O'Malley
/me spits into the nearby trash bin, then begins pointing at Chad Hutchins
I don't like you making them fingers into a triangle of suspicion, boy, but I figure Ty's got the right idea here, even if he's a li'l hot blooded. Reasons, motive, who was where, who has what. Like was mentioned, Sheriff found a real fancy dagger in 'is back, and tracks comin' out to the inn.
...come to think of it, how well off was y'r pa, boy?
/me looks over at the ruckus between Ty and Moses, smirking
Ha, well ain't this just dandy? Looks like there's a contradiction somewhere between the two of ya'. The ol' man is accusin' you of the murder, Ty, yet you say his theory puts you last on 'is list. Not only that, but weren't you complainin' jus' yesterday about how your business is goin' under, thanks to them automobiles? Don't think you're too well off f'r y'rself if that's the case. This sure is one fine piece of wood to add to the fire.
/me walks over to the door
HEY, SOMEBODY OUT THERE GET ME A DRINK.
-
If it's fire yer needin', I think I might got some spare with me. The unsold stock from th'market, an' all that.
Then again, don't think we be needin' any more fuel in all this now, hunh?/me eyes Ty and 'Snake, looking side to side between them.
How about we move on from them's fightin' and try to get down to workin' out what's what here, like Ron done before. I ain't likin' the look of his thinkin' though. I ain't really a people's person an' all, but I know a thing or two about sales from them markets, and pickin' at ol' Kyle and Pietro for jus' introducin' themselfs, jus' bad practice, y'know? Seems like he's just blowin' a joke(phase) outta proportion here, and I 'appen to like my jokes.
##Unvote, Vote: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
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Well off? Not very, after payin for Ma's funeral, rest her soul. Ain't nobody gonna kill Pop for money, unless t'were the coroner gettin a taste for more. ... sorry, I'm a little out of sorts right now.
-
Hellsnake, I do have ta say, that's a pretty lot o' words fer precious little gain.
Though, good Mr. Moses. That's a most curious tale ye be tellin'. That ye happen to hear, all convenient like this odd chantin', right before lettin us know that ye don't know ye neighbours at all. 'Tis a troublin' thing, and not one I be keen on lettin' slide.
##Vote: Moses Bike
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What c'n I say? I don't like to deal with this shady business unless I have myself a cool drink in my hands, or a bounty to go after. And now that things have gotten interestin', I'm willin' to forego the bounty in favor of a nice drink. 'sides, not much to go on here until we get a li'l more from both parties.
/me leans back against the wall, smirking
Well, gentlemen?
-
Votecount.
William Hellsnake [1]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley [1]: Jack Daniels
Seamus O'Malley (Excal) [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [1]: Peyton Hadley, Ethan Hayles
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [2]: Peyton Hadley, Moses Bike
Peyton Hadley [1]: Nathan Greaves
Moses Bike [2]: Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Seamus O'Malley (Excal)
There's ~60 hours left in the day. With 15 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
-
Spring cleaning here today, which will keep me busy for most of the day. Role play can come back then, but I don't have the time now to work out how to role play this stuff.
Joke vote target reveals non-intuitive information that wasn't previously public knowledge that contradicts the nature of the joke vote. Gain two votes for contradiction and flavour text. Oh okay. Yeah, I love that. I'd care more if it weren't so early in day 1, but I will not be happy if carpet pulling on information people 'should' know carries far into the game.
I mentioned the chanting and such because the game needed a good reason to actually turn this into a game of mafia rather than just looking for one culprit. This information was actually in my role PM, but apparently I even cocked that up. Turns out that I was fishing near the lodge two weeks ago when I heard the chanting and a scream, which strongly implies there was some other NPC death back then that was covered up. I figured it was scum given the oddly precise-yet-vague mention of the chanting being '2-3 people', but I guess given the theme it could be the dark secret of some cultists who aren't scum. Either way it's irrelevant to the greater game, and just more flavour to play with.
Oh, and Snowfire was kind and said that to cover this miscommunication I did also hear the chanting and a scream last night as well as two weeks ago, which I suppose does imply that both were scum events as much as it matters, but eh. Maybe I was supposed to keep these cards close to my chest or something, but I didn't see any point in withholding it.
And while I'm breaking character I should explain the background a little so people don't make presumptions and fall into traps like I've unwittingly managed to do. The main thing is that Moses is someone who has retired and spends most of his time now fishing, rather than someone who was a fisherman and has now retired. He's probably been in Marbury for a year or two now, though intends to spend his retirement travelling to several large lakes, not just Silver Lake. American born and bred, the only other thing that's possibly relevant is that he's come here from Arkham, so I imagine he has the smell of the city on him or something.
----
In terms of the actual game so far, my vote on Tyrone / EL is now serious, for what appears to be a secondary joke vote that is also bogglingly OMGUS. Either that or there was actually serious intent behind it regarding flavour text. In either case lol wut. Especially when it's his other accuser Peyton who made a serious vote on him for an arbitrary null tell (sorry Peyton, but a second joke vote on the same person is about as meaningful as the first one) and just gets a pat on the back for it. Not exactly the strongest of cases, but I'll take it at this point in day 1.
Hellsnake takes the silver medal at this point. I'm willing - and I bet everyone else is as well - to make huge allowances for flavour and role play making posts longer, entire dialogues that are 'pointless' and so on. That's great fun and all, and excuses plenty that would have been flagged up already in other games. But. But but but. Hellsnake has already managed to hit cruise control on the far side of joke allowances. Nothing actually said other than cheerleading the first seemingly real fissure. Combine that with removing the joke vote without actually putting it back anywhere (the emerging cases may be crap, but that's like the whole point of the start of day 1, come on) and a call for more participation this early (although not the only one (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104424.html#msg104424), Tyrone) and he's on course for a scumtastic day. Only silver because it's Mage. Please don't kill me for player-meta.
-
Well then Mr. O'Malley, that doesn't sound like a whole lot of evidence. Looks a bit odd to be poking at one guy then voting another. Moses Bike is looking frazzled for sure, but I aint got no idea if he's an honest man or not. But I don't much like your remark there.
So then O'Malley, why do you find it so hard to believe?
##Vote Seamus O'Malley Since I aint put any names down yet, and that's what a good citizen ought to do.
-
Hmph. I'm not likin' you accusing me of something because I'm not jumpin' the gun, old man. I thought I made myself perfectly clear that I'm lookin' at both you and Ty. I just don't know enough to decide which one I like worse; not yet. The kid's also raised my suspicions ((Ty = Moses > Chad > Everyone else)), but not as much as you two. Now if you'll excuse me, I do believe we have one more side of the story to hear before we go gung-ho.
Non-roleplay: I suspect both of you equally. There's no reason for me to put down a vote on one of you willy-nilly when it could easily just get flipped to the other after the stories came around. Besides, I haven't exactly hit cruise-control when I've called you two out on your stories; I've thrown myself into the middle of that, and I'm ok with that, because I figure it's important. AKA: I'm taking it slow and letting people, y'know, explain themselves before I throw them into the fire. We get absolutely NOTHING from just blindly accusing others. (Outside of the joke vote phase, that is)
-
I agree, my reasons are scant. But there be naught here that has reasons to truly cause alarm, save the fact that at least one man here did do bloody murder. My thoughts for Mr. Bike might be that he simply told the tale afore any others could tell it, that he would then have it told his way. As for poking at one man and voting another, as uncertain as I am, digging around a bit is a good thing to do.
But, I'm thinking that despite my mama always saying that if a boy looks as guilty as all that, he's done something even if it's not the thing ye be sayin' he did, that I'll be taking my attention from Mr. Bike. Mr. Hellsnake, I understand that ye think yer a fine upstanding member of the establishment fer deigning to take note that these two gents are not on the best of terms.
The funny thing bein' that yer issue with the Hutchinson boy is that he's doin' the same thing ye are. Or at least, tha' he did it once. Namely, notin' two folks pickin' a fight wit each other, and then offerin' nae else but the notice. Cept, while he did it once and moved on tae other things. Ye've made it a point o' pride tha' ye've noted them, and ye'll move nae an inch until they've solved it tae yer satisfaction. And tae make matters worse, ye also demand they do so with details that be more the province of the good constable, with the specifics of time and place.
##Unvote: Bike, ##Vote: Hellsnake
While I may have some misgivin's about tha old man, at least they're jus misgivins.
-
((1. Busy here too until tomorrow, so quick paragraph-by-paragraph OoC responses to Bike's post ensue:
2. I do apologize for what may have seemed like an asspull. Apparently I forgot to mention in my public bio that his parents are new to Marbury despite having discussed it with SnowFire via forum and IRC PMs, and I assumed you just hadn't read carefully enough due to not caring about what people here seem to call the joke vote phase. Entirely my fault, silly me.
3. I can't comment on what you mentioned about the role PM because when you say it in an OoC post it's hard to know if you're using that as cover to pretend you've gotta be telling the truth, and SnowFire certainly wouldn't want to say anything about it one way or the other.
4. Same thing here.
5. I guess I'll do the same for Ty: he moved into Marbury in his early teens, got a job working for the kind, familyless old man who owned the stable, and took over it for him when the latter was in poor health and died a few months later, about nine years ago. Bike being so new in town (a couple years, you say), I find it strange that he'd presume to know much about the families of town residents, doubly so for the person whose bio makes him out to be a fairly secretive loner, and it's not at all strange that he'd be wrong in making a guess based on what a frightened Peyton portrayed as Ty's supposed distrust of newcomers. Therefore, I don't think anything OoC has happened yet on anyone's part.
----
6. It _was_ flavor. As for Peyton, Ty tends to be fairly polite and helpful to newcomers; when the White Mountains were open tourists and hikers were part of his income, so it's a habit.
7. So asking for participation from others makes me more likely to be mafia? You confuse me.))
-
Well this is a fine mess! If I'm inclined to believe Mr. Bike, we're not looking for one murderer but a band of 'em. That business about chanting, and a ceremonial dagger in a man's back?
::Peyton's eyes flick around as though he expects further trouble... or, perhaps, remembers troubles gone by.::
Gentlemen, we ain't dead yet, and this world still looks something like sane. If you'll forgive my saying so, I'm inclined to believe that means that whatever happened out there, ain't done. Whoever did this, ain't finished. We may have more than justice calling us to action - may be our lives are at stake here, and maybe more lives than ours.
So lets get our cards on the table and our acts together, and find who - or what - did this thing. Before it does it to us.
Mr. Kolmogorov still hasn't put in his piece yet, and I'd like to hear from him before I start throwing around any accusations. Now I mention it, has anyone seen that Russkie? I didn't much care for picking him out early, but to not even respond to being called a murderer? Either the man's got Siberian ice in his veins or he'd rather not have it tested.
::Peyton frowns and looks around the room, seeing no sign of the Russian Kolmogorov.::
Still, no use crying over folks who ain't here, when them who are do themselves no favors at all. All I see is gentlemen shooting their gums without anything to go by, unless we're inclined to believe Mr. Bike or inclined to believe he's lying.
Let's all calm down and lay out the facts of the case, before we hie off any further in ways we can't know are right or wrong. I'm not inclined to see an innocent man hanged, especially when there's plenty of reason to suspect we'll be dying off soon enough without our doing a thing:
((Out of character: Running out of time here. I'm going to be gone the rest of the afternoon and possibly into the evening. Will hopefully post more tonight, more in character.
Ty Callahan: I'm leaving my vote here because, well, no other case looks *better* yet and I don't feel like I understand his arguments, such as they are. In particular, I'm weirded out by his referencing *me* in his post here:
"Hey, I ain't sayin' it's gotta be you, and I don't think it is, neither." Ty raised his hands apologetically. "I'm just trying to figure out what evidence we've got here, and it's damn near none says the Sheriff. And instead of facts'n ideas, all I'm hearin' is people whining they don't like each other. So how's about we get some thought outta people here, like Peyton asks?"
Attacks on Bike feel entirely flavor-driven so far, but on the flip side, pretty much all he's provided is flavor despite a lot of posts - including, oddly enough, his post explaining his previous posts. Since I wasn't suspicious of him to begin with, a post explaining why I shouldn't be suspicious actually makes me more than I was.
Overall, I feel like the heavy flavor makes it very hard to differentiate between what's "in character" and what's actual Mafia play.))
::Peyton is dimensonal shambler'd by the very man he's accusing.::
((Still OOC for speed's sake.
I can sort of see what you're saying here, EL/Ty, but polite or not your referencing me still feels off.
My background, real quick:
Peyton is an out of towner, a washed-up off-broadway actor who became involved with investigating the Mythos through a certain infamous play. He came to Marbury specifically to investigate rumors of occult activity.))
-
Hmph. And this is why kids ain't supposed to get mixed up in these things. Too hot-blooded t' tell up from down.
/me glares at Seamus
Why don't ya' take a minute to think things through, kid. Nothin' odd stands out to ya' about th'other kid's actions? 'sides, what you said ain't what he said, or why I got an issue with him. If'n ya' really want t' know why I got m'eye on th'other kid, it's 'cause he threw a third vote on me 'fore I could even get ma' head on straight, and when it obviously wasn't such a great idea. ((Third vote on me, obviously supposed to be a jokevote, jokevote phase had ended before it happened, and somebody had already gotten called out for being the second vote on the train.)) How's that fer suspicious?
/me begins smiling softly, scratching his chin
Now, what I do find interestin' is that you call me out for ma' reason behind suspectin' th'other kid, when... I hadn't given one. Closest thing I had was askin' 'bout their financial woes. I also be findin' it interestin' that ya' give the kid more credit than he's due. If I'm not mistakin', he has yet to contribute more than a small bit of vengeance on yer behalf, ((Jokevote)) and a quick apology without removin' me from his ballot. This buddyin' up don't sit well with me. Don't sit well at all...
##Vote: Seamus O'Malley (Because active deception is worse than passive, IMHO)
-------
Ahh, glad t' see Ty's found his voice again. Unfortunately, it sounds like the whole mess was just one big ol' misunderstanding. *Though this does bring us to the conclusion that there must be more than just one person we be lookin' for. Hmm... gonna have t' chew on this one fer a spell.
* Entirely flavour, after this point.
Blagh, another ninja. Gonna respond to this OoC, so I can MAYBE get my thoughts out before the day ends...
Yeah, personally, I'm seeing the buddy system of Seamus and Chad to be more suspicious.
-
Callahan, askin' th' other folks t' speak up this quick's jus' windblowin', an' tha's th' act 'f a man's got somethin' t' hide. There's plenty time f'reach man t' speak 's piece ere sundown, so 's better t' turn our ears to those's are speakin'. 'Specially if they's lips're movin', but t'aint but nawt comin' out.
Handley, I knows you's from outta town, but y' got's t' be 'bit more... reasonin' 'bout this. Y've spoken up twice, and I realises y'were nervous those fir's few hours, but there was more'n'nuff time t' think an' put a name down, and y' didn't mention any but y'rown.
Snake makes a point, Callahan's been a mite bit hypocritical in what he's goin' after th' fisherman for. 'S a tiny thing, mos' likely nothin', but 't's the first thing I's heard all day that was actually sorta... insightful, like. So wha's O'Malley doin' goin' after him fer 'at? An' bein' kinda' indecisive 'bout 't, not that snake's been too hot on that side've thin's either. But I can fergive 'im a little nervousness this early. An' yer stuff 'bout Snake bein' too pleased with 'isself simply ain't addin' up.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Seamus O'MalleyRusskie's run off, 'opefully fer good. Don' think I won' have my eye on 'im if we's sees 'is face agin.
Hadley's caught me on the hop like, an' so's the Snake 'isself. I'll be readin' they's pieces next.
-
Votecount.
William Hellsnake [2]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Chad Hutchins, Seamus O'Malley (Excal)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley [1]: Jack Daniels
Seamus O'Malley (Excal) [3]: Bill Hellsnake, Pietro, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves
Pietro [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [1]: Peyton Hadley, Ethan Hayles
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [2]: Peyton Hadley, Moses Bike
Peyton Hadley [1]: Nathan Greaves
Moses Bike [1]: Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Seamus O'Malley (Excal)
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews
There's ~44 hours left in the day. With 15 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
-
"Well, things are getting a lot more talkative around here. This is gonna be hell to keep up with - they're coming up with all sortsa gadgets to record speech now, dictaphones and things. Sometimes I wish you could fit 'em in one hand, but that's crazy talk."
Nathan has to make do with taking scribbled notes of the discussion as it unfolds. After a few minutes of writing, he looks up into the crowd.
"So, the farmer boy presses the old man for his story, and then switches onto the first decent looking case he can find? That feels awfully shifty, but if what Bike says is true we're dealing with more than one guy here."
He looks toward Hutchins.
"Not to speak ill of the dead, pal, but you were the third guy to jump on Hellsnake. The way he backed you up like a chainsaw doesn't reflect too well on you, either, and that's before we get to the fact you were pushin' for him before the old man and the Russian even spoke up. It's good journalistic policy to make sure everyone gets a say, and you seemed to go outta your way to start real heavy discussion before that could happen."
##Unvote, Vote: Chad Hutchins
"Callahan is speaking a lot but not saying much I could really publish. Not enough content, sorta fluffy, like a really crappy souffle. And where is that Russian, anyway?"
After finishing his point, Nathan gets back to scribbling, murmuring to himself.
"...Dammit. The lead I got said there was only one criminal hiding in Marbury...what the hell have I managed to walk in on?"
-
EBWOP OOC: Before I get grilled on it, yes, that's why Nathan came to Marbury. Looking for a scoop on a wanted fugitive who apparently snuck into this quiet little place.
-
/me stands up, a little more steady, a little more sober.
"Right now the lot of us ain't doin' much but pissin' on krauts. *Hic.* I ain't one to trust nobody from outside Marbury, but I reckon that this ain't got nothin' to do with it. We got a buncha loudmouths bickerin' and blowin things out of proportion, a few of us that ain't contributed much a tall, self included, and a few folks who done sat back and kept quiet."
/me takes a swig of the hooch and wipes it from his beard.
"Now, which group's the most suspicious? On the one hand, whoever done the crime knows damn well to keep quiet and let others draw attention to themselves, avoidin' the axe tonight and maybe tomorrah since us good natured folk won't have much to put again'em 'cept their silence. With that in mind I think Martin and Nick-o-lai best start contributin' somethin'. We got a lot o' daylight left but the bottle's only gonna get emptier."
He moves over to Chad and places his hand on the boy's shoulder. "This goes for you too, sonny. Yer pa was a good man and I know it's hard on ya, losin' him so soon after yer ma, but the best way to take care of this is to start helpin' with the investigation. Mopin' about never did no good for nobody," he says, not without a twinge of self aware irony.
"Pietro, you ain't said much since tellin' me to back off on Kyle. F'give me if this means I start associatin' the two of you as compadres until you speak up some."
"The only one I'm inclined to believe at this point is ol' Moses. His story's detailed and, I don't think enough of his imagination to make somethin' like that up. The contradiction's a small thing, and hell, I know enough that the memory confuses things. Now maybe that contradiction'll play a bigger role once we got more to go on, but right now I'll let it slide."
Another drink. "Don't think this means I trust yeh. I just ain't got enough to jump on yeh yet, and I ain't so drunk as to start another fight jes yet."
He belches, and stumbles, using Chad to hold himself upright. "Nah, on the other hand? Maybe the criminals know the game. Maybe they been through this so many times they dun picked up some tricks, tryin' to obfuscate folk's suspicions. Seems to me the Hellsnake just got caught up in it all, and the boys kickin' up dust the most ah slightly more suspicious. Three votes on a man ain't so close to a majoritah that we need to be makin' a mountain out of a molehill jus' yet."
"I ain't movin' my vote jus' yet, made in drunken instinct though it may be. Plenty of booze left afore last call, and I'm so suspicious of all y'all that my (joke)vote ain't no worse a choice than anythin' else."
OOC:
tl;dr: Lurkers, speak up. We've got plenty of time and just started, so maybe Imm and Shale just haven't had time to check in yet. Another day or two and I'll get more LAL on people, though. For the people posting content, I'm frankly more suspicious of the people jumping on multiple people voting for the same person than the people who did the voting. We're nowhere near hammer time yet. Not even half way there on votes. Sheesh.
Right now, Alex seems the most suspicious to me, though, since he posts without saying much and may likely be using his character's flavor to lay low.
As an aside, I would REALLY REALLY appreciate it if those who haven't made a separate account for this do so soon. It's rather hard to keep things organized for me when people are referring to Seamus while the username is Excal, etc. I know Snowfire said it was optional but given the flavor-heavy nature of this game, it will help a lot if I can just look at the SN and see whose post I'm reading instead of having to flip back to page 1 to see WTF Excal's character is.
-
OOC again: I'm realising my case on Chad is sort of incomprehensible given that I tried too hard to write it in flavour. Apologies, and making it clear in plain English:
Chad looks bad for dropping the third vote on Hellsnake before Moses and Russian-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Remember-Right-Now got a chance to talk. In addition, Seamus went for a Chainsaw Defence in attacking Hellsnake after Snake suggested Chad as a suspect.
-
EBWOP OOC again: Gah, and apparently I was losing track of everyone's occupations as well by calling Seamus/Excal 'farmer boy'. 14 new names and occupations to learn is hard. (Except Jack Daniels, for obvious reasons. :V)
That should be just about it for my babbling. Apologies for using 4 posts where I should have used one.
-
OOC because I'm trying to write a Japanese presentation at the same time and can't be arsed to flavour it up: Egh, that just doesn't strike me as good scum play, though. Keep in mind, scum are working together, and they KNOW we're going to be drooling over any chance to lynch with a reason. If Alex/Chad IS scum, then this was a really terrible maneuver because it draws too much attention to him. Keep in mind we're also NOWHERE NEAR HAMMER TIME.
I'm suspicious of Chad because of the lack of content in his posts, and perhaps it really just is poor scum play. At the same time I'm growing more suspicious of you, Nathan, since harping on a third vote like that smells of scum trying to act like town. Now if Chad had added his vote bringing Hellsnake close to the hammer, then I wouldn't think this way.
Before I change my vote I'm going to wait for Chadalex to post something content-heavy, since at this point it is the crux of whether or not I find him more suspicious than you. Either moves could be scummy right now, but we've got plenty of time to wait as it is.
-
((Made one right at the beginning, kept forgetting to post with it. Sorry 'bout that. Hopefully I'll remember from here on out.))
"All o'ya jumping on Seamus here don't strike me as havin' very good reasons," Ty growled, glaring in particular at Pietro. "Giovanni, you especially ain't makin' any sense. So Seamus makes a good point 'bout what Bike says, and you accuse him o'murder just cuz ya think it wasn't a good enough point? An' Sam, too. You two...frankly, you two look like yer trying to cover fer Bike. An' that worries me. Iunno about everyone else, but it sure worries me."
He smirked wryly at the self-proclaimed bounty hunter. "Hellsnake o'course is just accusing Seamus cuz Seamus suspects him, and I c'n understand that even if I don't like it. But you two...ya better not be in cahoots with Bike, trying to support his story so's ya can make people in the Order look suspicious, or somethin' like that. Cuz tha's sure's hell what it looks like t'me. 'Less we get someone else who heard what he did, that just seems way too convenient for th'old man's mem'ry to perk up so well around that story, so the two o'ya believin' it so easily 'n' calling Seamus out for bein' rightfully skeptical...doesn't sit right wi'me. Not at all."
((Dunno how old Moses Bike actually is, but Callahan's under 30 -- 28 at the moment -- so if Bike's of retiring age Tyrone'll consider him old.))
-
((Apologies for the double-post...For the record, this means my current suspicions on a 1-10 scale, where 5 is complete indifference, are
Bike: 9
Giovanni: 7
Sam: 6
Hellsnake: 5.5
Seamus: 5
Also of note:
Daniels: 7, feigning drunkenness is an easy coverup for distracting accusations and someone who's _really_ drunk so often can do it well
Nathan: 4
Chad: Iunno, pretty high
People who haven't posted yet: rising rapidly))
-
Mr. Hellsnake - if that is your real name - I've tried to cut you some slack. New in town at a bad time, and confused at strange customs. But when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Here in Marbury we protect ourselves with pure democracy. Maybe you feel safe with your guns and fancy knives and trained attack snakes, but you're as safe as a turd on a stick here if you don't unsheathe your vote. No one's expecting your hands to be around someone's neck this early, but if'n we can't see you pointing fingers because they're stuck up your ass then we're all in for a load. All I can see from you is gas - all talk and no action. Not sure I'd expect that from a bounty hunter.
I'd let it all slide, but then you came back (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104502.html#msg104502), defended your quite frankly socialist ideas and kept your finger up your ass despite professing such oddly precise opinions. A comedy of errors for sure, but it's gone too far to blind myself to it.
##Unvote: Tyrone Callahan (Eternal Lurker)
##Vote: William Hellsnake
And now that Seamus wants his hands round your neck your hand is forced in that direction? Color me unsurprised. Color me unimpressed with the bluster itself. At worst I think Seamus misheard you when you said:
I don't like you making them fingers into a triangle of suspicion, boy,
To poor young Chad. Don't think it matters much when it was to point out how you've been sitting on your hands all that time. Call me cynical that you just so happened to fall in against the man who was pointing most strongly against you after holding off for so long.
I'm hearing some voices out against Chad for his vote of Mr. Hellsnake made out of pure emotion at the start. The third for the bounty hunter. This is no sign of guilt, friends. No more than the first or second. (and come on guys, this is Alex. He pulls this sort of weird shit all of the time on both sides of the game)
Tyrone, I can't say I'm not uneasy with the vote based solely on not knowing my neighbors well enough. What can I say, can't blame me for assuming that stable master would be passed from father to son for generations. You know, maybe I'd feel better about the whole thing as some sort of miscommunication pie, but I'm looking at you now and you're still pointin' at me. Some sort of testimony that can't be proven either way (you're right there, by the design of the game I could have made the PM stuff up, but it's game mechanically irrelevant and was just intended to get flavour going down the right path), and now because you think people might be covering my tracks? Son, you're sounding awfully paranoid. I've heard my share of conspiracy theories - some of them even true - but this is grade A delusion right here. Now, we're all entitled to our opinions here even if they're wrong, but I'm thinking yours is going unjustified at this point, especially with the angry motioning at Giovanni. I mean, is my memory quite so murderous that it's worth your vote more than things that you seem to care about like that?
(oh, and calling for more participation is a minorly scum-leaning action. It's a completely meaningless action, especially quite so early on when some people just plain haven't seen the game's started yet. Basically it lets someone look active without actually doing anything or helping town at all)
More in a bit to look at the paths less travelled.
Oh, and there you are again, Tyrone. My, that's a lovely high score you have for me there on the back of something you haven't actually supported. You're awfully laid back for someone who's also somehow quite so sure of someone's guilt as early as this. Can't say I see you actually trying to pass the case on to anyone else.
Come now, I've only just moved over to Mr. Hellsnake. Don't make this choice look like folly quite so quickly by inflating a case full of nothing like this.
-
OOC once again:
Re: Ty: That's so meaningless I don't know what to say. I know the DL is filled with people with hardons for math, but do we really need to quantify suspicions in numbers in order to understand each other?
As for feigning drunkenness... well, no shit sherlock. It's flavor. In the one content-heavy post I've made I even did an OOC/tl;dr summary just in case my in-character analysis was too opaque for people to understand. Hell, my last post wasn't even in character. Unless you have anything else aside from character flavor to harp on, I'm not too sure I understand your suspicion of me.
I got ninja'd by Xanth but I don't have much to comment on his post at this time, so.... uh. Yeah.
-
Jack: It's because you said something nice about me at some point. The conspiracy theory is easy to follow at the moment. It could do with aliens or a giant fish monster for a twist at the end, though.
-
##Vote: Moses Bike
I really, really, REALLY did NOT want to break character this early, but... goddamn.
You know, I'm confused here. How are you (Bike) getting away with probably almost directly quoting your role PM to us? Why do it anyway? Because you're lazy and don't want to put the effort in to roleplay properly? Is it that hard to say that in character? I get you would probably want to be as clear as possible to avoid possible misinterpretation (you said as much as well), but it almost seems like you're invoking the name of the GM as not to arouse suspicion purposefully. And you also go after anyone who is roleplaying pretty much at all, which... just seems heavyhanded at this point. People can RP and still play seriously.
Pray tell, why should we take your backstory at face value? Because if we do, then there is no possible way you could be scum. So you're either seriously pulling one over on us, or you're just short of pulling an Otter. Either way, I'm fine with my vote. Especially for Day 1.
-
As for feigning drunkenness... well, no shit sherlock. It's flavor.
((You misunderstand. I was saying that the drunkenness was faked by your character to cover up the lack of evidence for your baseless accusation. As for the numbers, I just think in numbers so I wrote what I thought; wasn't trying to complicate or oversimplify things for anyone else. Sorry if I did either for you.
And yeah, Sopko basically sums up my issues with Bike that I mentioned in my first OoC post.))
-
That being said, Jack, while I like much of what I'm hearing, I can't say I like your position, for much the same I had to lecture the Hellfish about. If you don't like the cut of Nathan right now, then vote for him now. If you think Chad might breakdown and confess later, then vote for him later. With positive thinking like that, I might as well hold my vote off until someone shows me their bloodstained clothes and pleads for a merciful death. That way I'd know my vote was in the right place down the line, right? Delaying's going to do Marbury no favors. (what do you expect to happen? Alex might post something terrible and trip up now? Really? Because I'd bet that this may as well be a delayed vote for Nathan)
Nathan, can't say you'll find prying eyes welcome here, but you speak of this fugitive like it's the sixth trout of the day. My man, is this fugitive dangerous? A threat to the community we should be on the lookout for? You would do us better service with this, it would seem, as I see nothing wrong with poor Chad's vote for the Hellcat. No law of three out here, you'll find.
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Oh, hey there Sopko.
Don't get why you're so up in arms. It's a flavour heavy game where it's been stated incredibly clearly that anything and everything can be faked so that people can't read into flavour that way (pretty sure Snowfire said he'd even help some fake stuff on request). Not sure how me referring to information I have could possibly be used to make me look any better than neutral, as I can't believe that there's information in the provided flavour alone that could actually lead to clearing or damning people. Never intended it to make me look clear or even the positive side of neutral, and dislike it being painted that way, especially in a game where it's been quite clearly defined.
I'm presenting information that I have that may be relevant to the bigger 'story' of the game, and wanted to clarify that it was more than purely random role play. What am I supposed to be doing, just sitting on that information? Maybe if I saw a reason to keep quiet (like if mafia would want to kill me for knowing or something, I don't know) I would, but what's the point in keeping a presumed second NPC death quiet?
I even explicitly pointed out that there's no way of telling that I didn't just make the background up right here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104549.html#msg104549).
Saying I'm going after people for RPing is definitely misrepresentation, though. I'm going to assume that was a misreading or something poorly worded on my part, as I've made it quite clear repeatedly that I'm in favour of role play.
So, uh, yeah. Pray tell where I've tried to use this information to my gain, other than bringing it up in the first place to clarify the original misunderstanding.
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No, Tyrone, you didn't.
The closest you got was 'maybe it was the truth, maybe it was a lie' in points 3 and 4. Pure, cold neutral. Jumping onto Kyle's coattails here to limply support your weak yet consuming position against me isn't helping my position on you at all.
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Right, given there's nothing coming back at me immediately, I really need to head to sleep now. I'm supposed to be on regular hours of sleep and I'm not even pretending to live in an American time zone for once.
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No, Tyrone, you didn't.
The closest you got was 'maybe it was the truth, maybe it was a lie' in points 3 and 4. Pure, cold neutral.
((A: I didn't wanna break character too much even in that fairly OoC post. But more importantly...
B: It might've seemed hypocritical since we were addressing my _own_ private conversations with the moderator as well. The fact is that it shouldn't've, of course, since I didn't use mine in a manner that could possibly bring suspicion upon anyone, as you did towards me. It's fairly obvious that your usage of what you claim was a true PM was intended to get me lynched (since you know I'm not scum), while mine was merely to survive, so whether we're both lying or both telling the truth, our motives still show our sides clearly.))
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I don't get why you of all people don't get the logic behind it. It comes down to whether we choose to trust you or don't trust you. You yourself said this:
I even explicitly pointed out that there's no way of telling that I didn't just make the background up right here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104549.html#msg104549).
If we choose to trust you, then why shouldn't we trust you completely in that you're telling the whole truth for the benefit of the town? By saying "this is from my role PM Snowfire gave me to help me make it a mafia game", you're implicitly stating that you're 100% town with what follows as evidence. If we are to trust you, why would this not also go along with it, unless you're NOT being truthful about it? Is there a reason we should doubt one thing but not the other? If you're being honest for the sake of town, WHY WOULD YOU slip in untrue things for the hell of it, barring taking out some sort of role related stuff? If we take what you say at face value, then you HAVE to be town then, because there's no other explanation that makes sense if you're telling the truth from your role PM.
If we choose not to trust you, why should we just give you a pass and call it a neutral play? If we're not trusting you, then are we not free to choose to interpret it however we might come up with, including that you're just making it up to fool town into making false assumptions? (Not about the flavor of multiple scum, etc, but about your role in things). If we choose not to trust you, why are you not a legitimate target? Just saying you're not because "Anyone can make up stuff" doesn't clear you at all in that case. It doesn't change that you may be lying to us this time, and if we choose not to trust you, ergo, you are probably scum.
So what is it? We should trust you because you might be making it up, or what?
My vote stands.
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/me sighs, wiping his face with his sleeve.
Now I been tryin' to stay outta this li'l spat 'cause I'm not seeing anything comin' from it, but if I sit around much longer, I'm gonna be accused of stayin' in th'shadows.
As much as I ain't likin' Moses' change o' character to quote the great voice in the sky, nothin' else he's done is strikin' me as suspicious.
Tyrone here, on the other hand, is on th'other side of th'scales. He's sayin' all these things that just don't make no sense for a guilty man t'be sayin'. This idea of ratin' suspicions seems like it could come from either side, and would be equally pointless from either. In fact, th'only t'me that seems suspicious from him so far is putting down most of the votes against him to flavour - if that ain't a misrepresentation an' a half, then I ain't Bobby Hayles' son.
Is it enough for a vote? No, sir, 'cause he still ain't striking me as one of them criminals here. Not the best o' people to have round, nome, but not a criminal. Besides, we ain't heard a peep from Ron Dale since my vote fer 'im, and I ain't likin' that. I've nothing against people starting off quiet, but once they've shown that they're list'nin'? Just don't sit well wi'me.
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Ol' Kyle's jumpin' in: y'know, to me, it prob'ly is a null tell. Sure, he can be lyin' about the whole lot or tellin' the truth about the whole lot. Just 'cause they go together, though, don't mean it tells us anythin' about which one's the reality here.
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As for feigning drunkenness... well, no shit sherlock. It's flavor.
((You misunderstand. I was saying that the drunkenness was faked by your character to cover up the lack of evidence for your baseless accusation. As for the numbers, I just think in numbers so I wrote what I thought; wasn't trying to complicate or oversimplify things for anyone else. Sorry if I did either for you.
And yeah, Sopko basically sums up my issues with Bike that I mentioned in my first OoC post.))
*Hic* Now, sonny, I reckon this is the booze talkin', but that don't please me none all the same. You may be the type to think in numbers, sure, I'll give yah that. I think in number's all the time. How much moonshine I can get for a week's pay, how many bottles it takes to have a party every night, all that. Hell, I don't even give a shit that you've got to rank us all 7-9-8 for things to make sense.
What I don't like is how these numbers were thrown together durin' an out-o-body ess... espeereence, yet was takin' the real world into account. Or the other way around. I kent make heads or tales of that right now.((OOC: Seriously, you placed me as the second or third most suspicious based on flavor, but it's based on suspicion of my character more than it is based on whether or not you think I'm scum?))
'nfact, this just placed you high up on my list o' ne'erdowells. I's still not so sure-a who I trust atwix Chad an' Nathan, but I know this: You ain't makin' much sense, and I reckon yer playin' on Maybury's hatred of the drunkard to make a case where there ain't none.
##Unvote: Kyle Handley
##Vote: Tyrone Callahan
We ain't so close to a decision that I feel bad about this, and you been kickin' up a lot of dust besides. Pray onna them fools makes morofa ass o' themselves than yeh jus' did.
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"Drink or act drunker'n ya are all that ya wanna do, Jack, ain't reason to suspect ya in an' of itself. It's yer loud accusation right at the start o'this whole thing, without a single fact on yer side, that seemed pretty damn rotten to me." ((Again you fail to understand. I'm saying that your initial accusation looked less like a joke vote and more like trying to get an innocent lynched, since it looks like you were trying to hide, with loud "drunken" rambles, the fact that you didn't actually take the vote back after Pietro calmed you down. Without your baseless (if you're innocent) accusation, simply being a drunkard wouldn't be anything but flavor, obviously.))
"But really, yer one o'my last worries at th'moment an' I ain't pointing fingers at ya for anything right now, so cool yer horses an' take another swig o' that stuff if ya need it. 's Bike tha's my real problem here." ((though unfortunately his story is suspicious primarily for OoC reasons that are hard to address in character))
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((OOC: Well, that's fucking retarded. It's the joke vote phase. If you seriously didn't understand that, then you're a moron. And if you did, and I don't think so little of you to think that you don't know the meaning of a joke vote, then you're scum trying to build up a case against a townie where there is none. That's all I have to say about that.))
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((OOC again: Since I can't edit, it *WAS* the jokevote phase. Nothing else needs to be corrected in my last statement.))
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Evening, everyone!
Sorry I'm late. Seems people still like to buy things, amnesia be damned, and if I don't attend to my store I won't have anything to go back to once this is all wrapped up. But enough about work; let's get down to brass tacks....wait, ANOTHER customer? Can't I get a bit of rest here? Oh well...
Now that' I've got five minutes to m'self, as regards Moses: If he's telling the truth, he's dancing a fine line. But it's not for us to debate whether or not he deserves divine wrath. That's a question for the Almighty. All we can do is judge him according to the laws of man, and by those laws I don't see what particular wrong he's done. Either he's telling the truth or he's lying, and he damn well might be lying, but that's true of every last one of us. This whole dust-up is about something that can't tell us jack squat. Hell, even if he is a killer, that doesn't mean it didn't happen like he says. Just means he'd be one of the ones doin' the chanting, is all. Not enough info for us to tell, yet, and I don't think this line of thought is gonna help us figure it out. Tyrone makin' a big deal out of it...well, he oughta drop it, but we're not exactly drowning in suspicious activity at the moment. Can't fault him for going after it if he thinks it could be something...but he'd be well advised to drop it once it's been shot down by the group.
Tyrone, now...he's agreed with Kyle's rather shaky case, called out the town drunk for nothing he's actually done, and also pointed a finger at Mr. Giovanni for something I can't make a lick of sense out of. The man said, and I'm quotin' here,
"Giovanni, you especially ain't makin' any sense. So Seamus makes a good point 'bout what Bike says, and you accuse him o'murder just cuz ya think it wasn't a good enough point?
But that's not what he said. Didn't say nothin' about Seamus havin' a good point. Said he was frazzled, but there's a long way between frazzled and lyin', and Seamus called him a liar. Lots o' fingers gonna be pointed before this is done, it's true, and not all of them for good reasons, but when they're not just bad reasons but outright wrong ones, that gets my hackles up. He's also puttin' his manner of speech above the job o' solvin' a murder, and that don't sit well at all. That particular screwup doesn't tell us whether he's a criminal or a townsperson, but it does make me think he needs a swift kick in the pants to set him right. Add it all up, and...
##Vote Tyrone Callahan
(OOC explanation for lurking: Got home from out of state at 8 PM, got situated around 9:30, had work keep dropping on me from then until just before midnight, in the form of two car crashes- (one of which involved a building and three drunk drivers - and a knife attack. Yeah, I'd rather have been mafia'ing. I've given more reading time to the recent cases just because that's all I've got the brainpower for, and will look harder at the rest of the cast tomorrow morning)
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((OOC again, though I haven't read Martin's input yet and probably won't until tomorrow because I'm exhausted. Just trying to keep up with the "keep it civil" rule. I'm not calling you retarded, EL, I'm saying your argument is full of holes and I don't like it one bit. In case that weren't clear.)
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Upon further review, the first time I mentioned Tyrone's name, it should have been Kyle's. Told you I was overworked -- somebody get me a damn clerk to help out!
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I've prodded both our Russian friend and the shopkeeper. It appears that Cruel Fate is playing tricks with them. They've assured me they'll be around soon, but for the record, if they do not post by the end of Day 1 they may be modkilled / replaced / sacrificed to Cthulu, depending on circumstances. Hopefully this point will be moot. And... it seems that Mr. Andrews took a previously unknown trip to Japan, where he learned the secret art of the ninja. That only leaves the piano man.
For the record, a reminder that the Eternal Lurker post above is really "Ty Callahan." I realize it was an accident but for the record, a reminder to just use one account to post on this thread. Using multiple accounts screws with the "show old posts by this user" function and is in general tremendously confusing.
I don't think I can comment on the Moses issue without prejudicing it. Let's leave it at I will not be modkilling him for that claim, note the "mod will make up bullshit on command" rule, and further note direct quotes *will* still get you modkilled (without explicit permission). If in doubt, ask me.
William Hellsnake [3]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Chad Hutchins, Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Moses Bike
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko) [ 0]: Jack Daniels
Seamus O'Malley (Excal) [3]: Bill Hellsnake, Pietro, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves
Pietro [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [1]: Peyton Hadley, Ethan Hayles
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [3]: Peyton Hadley, Moses Bike, Jack Daniels, Martin Andrews
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Nathan Greaves
Moses Bike [2]: Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko)
Chad Hutchins [1]: Nathan Greaves
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov
There's ~36 hours left in the day. With 15 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Now that' I've got five minutes to m'self, as regards Moses: If he's telling the truth, he's dancing a fine line. But it's not for us to debate whether or not he deserves divine wrath. That's a question for the Almighty. All we can do is judge him according to the laws of man, and by those laws I don't see what particular wrong he's done. Either he's telling the truth or he's lying, and he damn well might be lying, but that's true of every last one of us. This whole dust-up is about something that can't tell us jack squat. Hell, even if he is a killer, that doesn't mean it didn't happen like he says. Just means he'd be one of the ones doin' the chanting, is all. Not enough info for us to tell, yet, and I don't think this line of thought is gonna help us figure it out. Tyrone makin' a big deal out of it...well, he oughta drop it, but we're not exactly drowning in suspicious activity at the moment. Can't fault him for going after it if he thinks it could be something...but he'd be well advised to drop it once it's been shot down by the group.
I'm going to assume that by Tyrone there, you mean me. (Ninja clarification confirms!)
I know I'm probably making too much out of it, but the whole thing just seemed... off. I didn't particularly see anything suspect with his first in-character post. It seemed like a perfectly legitimate IC post. But a feeble riposte by Tyrone/Lurker and vague suspicion by Excal was all it took to send him running to his role PM for utter clarification. Would it have taken him that much to think of an in-character way to defend himself? I don't think so. He wasn't in THAT perilous of a position to begin with, so the desperate defense just struck me as odd, since who is most concerned with stuff like this being misinterpreted usually? Scum.
I thought a long time about bringing this up at all, and even spent a while trying to do so in character before I just dropped it.
I realize it's exactly a lot of what you could be saying, but it stinks to me, so I'm voting my conviction at the moment. Moving on and I'll happily be back in character going forward from here.
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((OOC: Well, that's fucking retarded. It's the joke vote phase. If you seriously didn't understand that, then you're a moron.))
((Talk about getting defensive. You aren't helping your case any. Obviously scum are the only ones who can make votes based on actual knowledge at the beginning of a game. It isn't a joke vote at all if it's coming from scum. So I have no reason to assume a seemingly unfounded vote that you make is a joke vote, and so when it seems like you're trying to keep the vote officially present while drawing attention away from its existence through drunken rambles, that makes me suspicious. Really, how many times do I have to explain this? You can't be this "fucking retarded".
Not sure what to say to Martin's accusation because it seems he misunderstood previous posts, primarily Pietro's post to which I referred in mine. I'll read it over again when I have less of a headache and see if it's just me misreading it rather than his fault.))
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Ah man I knew that was comin. Every time I try an say somethin in class the book geeks all gotta stand up and say I ain't know nothin. "Hey Chad, it's too early to lay a third vote!" "Hey Chad, it's pretty late, how come you ain't said more?" Eeeeeevery time we have one'a these debates.
I'd like to see some'o them bookworms come out on the field and try to call an offensive line. They like them some readin? Try to read which way the other guy in fronta ya is gonna move. You gotta get a read and the way you gotta get a read is you gotta move yourself, get the QB to make a little twitch and see how the defensive line responds. Without that first twitch you ain't got nothin but a guess. You best not sit back and do nothin and you best not go shootin off a false start either.
(Early third vote on random train entirely intentional, reactions garnered from early train valuable, standard stuff, see also like half the games I've played in. Nothing else really to say yet.)
Me I see a lotta wiggling. Defensive line is nervous. I don't see any twitches yet. I do see one guy goin offsides.
##Unvote: Bill Hellsnake
##Vote: Kyle Handley (Soppy)
Yeah, Moses came in and started talkin bout conspiracy theories and dadgum for no reason and then got all stiff-like. But really now what's your problem with that? I dunno, it seems more like you could be scum jumpin on him for it than him being scum. Just a gut call on my end again but we ain't got no real clues yet so it is what it is. I went around the 3 vote crowd and honestly none of em are comin off too poorly. Too soon to say on much else.
(Also apologies, busy today and busy tomorrow, this also always seems to happen when I start a mafia game)
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Ok, what the bloody flying fuck.
Mr. Hellsnake - if that is your real name - I've tried to cut you some slack. New in town at a bad time, and confused at strange customs. But when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Here in Marbury we protect ourselves with pure democracy. Maybe you feel safe with your guns and fancy knives and trained attack snakes, but you're as safe as a turd on a stick here if you don't unsheathe your vote. No one's expecting your hands to be around someone's neck this early, but if'n we can't see you pointing fingers because they're stuck up your ass then we're all in for a load. All I can see from you is gas - all talk and no action. Not sure I'd expect that from a bounty hunter.
I'd let it all slide, but then you came back (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104502.html#msg104502), defended your quite frankly socialist ideas and kept your finger up your ass despite professing such oddly precise opinions. A comedy of errors for sure, but it's gone too far to blind myself to it.
You vote me because I don't have a vote down, when I do. I very clearly do. I'll need to read the rest at some point (will probably be late tomorrow, as I'm busy for a good chunk of time tomorrow and it's late), but that is so god damn retarded that... ugh. And how did nobody else pick up on that? I'm about a quarter of the way through page 3, and nobody has said anything about it. It's the beginning of his god damn post.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Moses Bike
No. You are NOT getting away with that.
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*sigh* Alright. Got my head on straight, managed to get a quick read of the rest of things, nothing to say yet as I've not had time to think them through. I will however make an apology for being uncivil in my last post. I just get a little... 'excited' when I see something obviously off, and nobody notices.
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Hey Helldog, are you going hard of hearing before your time? I talked about things in the right course of time, and if'n you heard the whole of my little ramble you'd have seen that I started by talking 'bout your time before the vote and why continuing to hold your vote back then was serious bad (you'll even see that I put a link in to indicate the post I was talking about), an' then I move on to talk 'bout your vote and why I didn't much like that either.
Maybe, you know, when no one else notices something that's 'obviously off', you should be double checking your work before getting all excited like.
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(Oh, and we reach the crux of the problem with Tyrone: he thinks that my vote on him was initially anything more than a joke vote. No. It wasn't. It was a random little flavour way of getting a joke vote down while introducing the information I had into the game. Unsurprisingly, what I've been given doesn't actually hint that it's more likely to be some people than others, let alone be viable evidence. (the chanting wasn't necessarily coming from the lodge. I think that's possibly colouring your view a bit. It's just the easy connection to make given where the body was found. I don't even know that this was related to the murder and not just some unrelated dark ritual)
But oh, you've also taken Jack's joke vote seriously.
I'm not sure what to make of you and the Hellcarp. I'm used to Mage's instability, but this mistake you've made here is bordering on just darn cute.
Kyle: either I'm town and I know some game mechanically irrelevant titbits, or I'm scum and I've made up some game mechanically irrelevant titbits. Sure, it's all or nothing. Just because neither possibility is neutral doesn't mean it isn't a null tell. Insisting that it can be resolved and the resolution is important is practically like saying that someone at the start isn't neutral because they're either town or scum, neither of which is neutral. All I'm saying is that you can't distinguish the possibilities here. It's not like the information presented can in any way affect the core game.
Also no, of course I followed the rules regarding information from PMs. Not that this changes anything.
And sure, I could have written something up about it in character... if I'd had the time. Takes me bloody ages to write anything in role play, and it would have been a solid 24 hours after that point before I'd've had the time to wrap something like that up in role play.)
Frankly, I'm for pointing my voting finger at either the Hellmouse or Tyrone. Maybe you'd expect such awkward behavior from a newcomer like the Hellshark, and maybe Tyrone's just too much of a klutz to take as a threat to our community, but if'n I were to let every kid with crumbs on their fingers go for it bein' too stupid for a cookie thief, then soon enough every thief in the land would walk around with their fingers covered in crumbs, and after that only outlaws would have cookies. That's not a world I want to be living in, no sirree.
Let's take a look outside'a this little fishing hole we've got going over here. Oh, the party's all down here, it seems. Don't really have much to say otherwise at this point, other'n that it's starting to feel like people are getting struck dumb. I'm guessing the Russian doesn't speak a lick of English. Not much point in pointin' at the feller when the police are gonna cart him off for some crime of bein' foreign anyhow.
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Ee'n wit' this kinda game up, some folks've still got's t' make a livin'. I'll pull on my readin' glasses an' have a proper good look-see this evenin', partic'larly regardin' what's happenin' wit' Handley and Bike, but one thing I want's t' flag up afore 'en.
B: It might've seemed hypocritical since we were addressing my _own_ private conversations with the moderator as well. The fact is that it shouldn't've, of course, since I didn't use mine in a manner that could possibly bring suspicion upon anyone, as you did towards me. It's fairly obvious that your usage of what you claim was a true PM was intended to get me lynched (since you know I'm not scum), while mine was merely to survive, so whether we're both lying or both telling the truth, our motives still show our sides clearly.
This 'ere's some rather... vigorous wordin', an' I c'nae hardly see t' sense of 't. Where was yous invokin' the wor' o' th' almighty, Callahan? An' why's you's takin' Bike so darn pers'nal like? He's tellin' us what 'e saw, I don' see no how's tha's "intended t' get you's lynched".
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"Ah, this 'joke vote' defense again. 'Only scum c'n make a real vote, 'n' my vote was jus' a lil' joke, so I ain't scum, ya see?' Tha's a terrible argument in two ways, Mr. Bike. If'n you don' get it, firs' way's that 'only scum c'n make a real vote' don't mean 'not makin' a real vote means I ain't scum', and second way's that ya ain't got any proof yer vote's a joke anyhow. Still, even then 'tain't much relevant; I jus' needed to point out yet another bit o'nonsense ya spewed. My problem wi'Daniels was his vote, sure, but it ain't that big a problem; my problem wi'you's yer story cuz I couldn't care any less 'bout yer vote.
"An' now ya say yer story ain't an issue cuz it don't change who dunnit? Ain't a lick o'truth in that. If'n we believe yer story, we gotta believe other things 'bout Jon's murder, not least o'which is that ya ain't done it yerself. And that seems mighty convenient that ya want us believin' yer alibi when the only witnesses are the fish ya tried to catch, an' I reckon they ain't gonna be much help in provin' anything."
((No one else has tried to invoke GM PMs to feign innocence. Given that the GM ain't gonna verify anything, my vote seems quite unlikely to change any time today. Think I'ma spend the rest of today looking at other people's posts; more time spent on the Bike front is just time wasted at this rate.)).
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Nathan, can't say you'll find prying eyes welcome here, but you speak of this fugitive like it's the sixth trout of the day. My man, is this fugitive dangerous? A threat to the community we should be on the lookout for? You would do us better service with this, it would seem, as I see nothing wrong with poor Chad's vote for the Hellcat. No law of three out here, you'll find.
"Hell if I know. I'm not exactly the richest journalist around, and details kinda cost extra. That means for all I know, it could be anyone here. As for why he came to Marbury, maybe he's got companions here. Who knows?
Anyway, the way I see it the old man shouldn't be getting voted for his story, because we've all got somethin' to contribute to this discussion, don't we? ((Voting Bike for explaining backstory is silly. It's flavour.)) Mr. Salesman over there is pressing way too hard on that in particular, and I think it's nowhere near as good as he's making out. ((It's been specified that everyone has that sort of flavour in the opening post. The point is moot, Kyle/Sopko.))
Meanwhile, Ty...the hell is he even talking about anymore? Holding the drunkard responsible for one random accusation at the start of the game, and accusing Bike of the same thing Handley's been doing? Yeah, this may be a murder case we're dealing with, but some early accusations flying around are what we need to break the ice and start some serious talking. ((Ty holding Jack responsible for a joke vote as well as the lolflavour case on Bike are both pretty terrible.))
Chad, though, is still worth my vote. He goes off his third-vote thing and then walks off to vote on gut when there's plenty of serious discussion going around. In particular I don't like how he says 'Yeah, Bike was spouting crazy theories and all, but I'm voting you on gut anyway (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104607.html#msg104607)' because it feels like it's giving him an opening to backtrack and say he was suspicious of Bike all along. Flipflopping's a sign of a bad journalist, y'know."
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Now see here, Callahan! I don't mean to stick on you, friend - or maybe I do, on account of you're acting a damned sight more suspicious than anyone else here.
Drunkenness is no defense - there've been plenty of drunken murders over the years -, but it sure isn't any kind of... well, it IS a crime, but it ain't the one we're concerning ourselves with. And if Mr. Daniels is faking by drunk, why, he's a better actor than I, by God, and I've yet to meet one on Broadway or off.
As for Mr. Bike, well, I'm none too sure about coming to his defense after he's seemed more than a mite jumpy, but there WAS a murder none too long ago. A little jumpiness seems in order. Whether you're guilty or not, eh? Calling on the Almighty to exonerate you don't bother me, mind, it just seems a little excessive.
A little. Mr. Kyle and Mr. Callahan - again, Callahan? Really? They seem to think it's more'n a little. I'd like to know how you gentlemen expect to get anything out of that, unless you expect the Holy Spirit to come down and speak in tongues right through you.
::Something about this last statement darkens Peyton's face and he looks quickly away.::
To hell with it. That's a waste of time.
I hope.
This business about Mr. Daniels, that's - has to be - the crux of my point.
((And my vote STILL stays on Ty Callahan, for a PAIR of entirely new reasons. :P I feel like I'm tunneling day 1.
But I'll lay out those reasons, nonetheless.
Pressing Bike about his appeal to PM, which is clearly paraphrased since the Hand of Mod has not descended on him, is worthless. On the one hand, I agree it was unnecessary to pull out such a heavy-handed OOC explanation so early in the day. On the other hand, the explanation itself is a null tell, since we began the game with the knowledge that the Mod would lie for us at request.
You're definitely not the worst offender in terms of making a stink about this, Sopko/Kyle is. But his argument seems to hinge more on it being an asspull, which it was. I have a major problem with the AGGRESSIVENESS of Sopko's case on a near-null-tell, but that's another matter. Consider it a suspicion.
Anyway, the Bike issue is secondary to why I'm voting Callahan. The main thing is this nonsense about poking Jack Daniels on a joke vote. He didn't drop his early joke vote in the joke voting phase in order to do... what, exactly?
I was going to ask that rhetorically, but you know what, let's make it a real question.
What do YOU think Jack should've done when he got called on his jokevote by Pietro, in the jokevote phase?))
-
my vote seems quite unlikely to change any time today. Think I'ma spend the rest of today looking at other people's posts; more time spent on the Bike front is just time wasted at this rate.)).
I love America. In this great country, the jury usually listens to the evidence before hanging the man, not after. You've been arguing this and that Mr. Callahan, but I don't feel like you've been contributing nothing, see? Nothing constructive anyway. I really don't feel that your case on Mr. Bike is as warranted as you make out. The man gave us his story, and that's his right.
There's been a lot said about Tyrone already, that's my little addition after taking it all on board.
##Unvote
##Vote Tyrone Callahan
As they say in my home country: nella vita - chi non risica - non rosica.
Ah, Hadley, don't sneak up on me like that and say all that stuff really quickly just as I start talking, you have surprised me!
-
Ronald Dale;
I ain't likin' the look of his thinkin' though. I ain't really a people's person an' all, but I know a thing or two about sales from them markets, and pickin' at ol' Kyle and Pietro for jus' introducin' themselfs, jus' bad practice, y'know? Seems like he's just blowin' a joke(phase) outta proportion here, and I 'appen to like my jokes.
Never said it was the best reason for getting on someone's case ever, uh, guy... who were you? Hayles, I think, was it... Ethan Hayles. That sounds right.
Fact of the matter is I wanted to push things outta jokevote phase. Didn't exactly work, but I had to start somewhere and No Joke Vote made a heck of a more appealing case than Joke Voted. Least to me, but doesn't look like it works for you, eh?
So I've been sitting here, looking at you folk really hard but I figure it's about time I spoke up. Figure I ain't making much... progress, hell, when did I ever make progress... on that damn book of mine. What was it about anyway? I don't know. My head hurts. Fact of the matter's I'm gunna put down my work for a minute here and contribute with a serious vote.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Kyle Handley
I don't like this Kyle feller here. That was his name, wasn't it? I think it was. Harps on the ole man here for... what exactly? Ah. Right. Bringing information into the midst and clarifying it. Sure as hell could be a liar, but I dunno, doesn't really feel like too important a-something to be hanging people for.
Sure thing there'll... hell, I should incorporate that in my book... there'll be a mastermind who no one suspects, but hell if I'll convict someone fer thinking there's chanting.
Other guy I don't like's the journalist type for... being a journalist. But really, somewhere near the start he's yapping about someone dropping a third vote afore everyone's had a chance to speak up and chiding 'em fer it. I dunno 'bout you, but I don't see why people oughta be waitin' fer everyone to speak to make votes here.
Sure, could be smokescreenin' some scum to let 'em lurk and jus' jump on a big case, but it's a non-tell to me, 'cuz we can't sit 'round twiddling our thumbs waiting for Russia to invade. Vaguely don't like your way of repeating what people've been saying.
I don't even understand Tyrone's arguments. How did Moses say he wasn't scum because it wasn't a real vote?
PS: holy hell all this roleplay so many worsd to read aaah what did i begin
five ninjas ohwhat!
-
Well I certainly never. Sometimes us mathematicians have work to do, work that is done by ourselves, and can't just stick around for the inane babble. Being accused of murder? Why I never! If you're going to accuse me of crimes, at least have the decency of being respectful and accuse me of something more fitting, like interplanetary genocide. Planets? What are those? Y'know, those things in the sky that you all stare at blindly every night with no understanding, you fat lot of oafs.
Well then. Seems like things have gone a bit причудливые 'round these parts, and I'm certainly not referring to the drinks around here, which, if I were to export back to where I'm from and replace the normal vodka with them, would incite another revolution overnight from the sheer outrage. Ah well, when in Rome, do as the Interdimensional Horrors do? Was that how the saying went? Doesn't sound quite right - I'd have to double-check that.
Товаришь Peyton brings up a good point - most of what we have from Bike is based off of flavour, which is really quite something. Long posts, but there's little factual information in them, and any logic in them is an utter failure. It's almost as if I'm working with the New Math - and don't make me do that again, nobody will like it. Whoever invented the New Math should be ashamed of themselves. More to the point, your vote for Hellsnake seems based on...again, flavour. The problem I have with quoting a supposed NPC death this early on in the game is that it gets others to on wild goose chases - is it really relevant? Is it just Bike making things up? Is it the mod trolling us all? This is why I'd like to not focus on that until we have at least some more in-game information - first-order logic and all that is vastly superior to pointless speculation.
That being said, the wonderous thing about this much information is that it also has a good chance of getting verified later, in the subsequent days. On top of that, while dancing a fine line of suspicion, Bike hasn't done anything that would actually make me think that he's actually done something wrong thusfar, and therefore while he's someone to watch out for, I believe everyone else's votes are best placed somewhere else. Like, for instance...
Callahan, Callahan, Callahan. What are you doing? It's utterly baffling - first you think a jokevote is a serious vote, then you claim that Bike's role PM quoting was him trying to feign innocence (while there are many reasons for doing that - quoting a role PM to feign innocence? Really only makes one more suspicious, really. Look at the backlash from that one action, for instance). And then he goes on to say...you know, for so many posts, they're fairly sparse in terms of content.
##Vote: Tyrone Callahan
Somewhat disconcerted about Daniels' accusation of Hutchins - in fact, most people's accusations of Hutchins. I've had to tutor the man once, and while a little...lacking in some aspects, he's a good man, merely quiet at first. Of course, if he persists in his silence, that's another story, but I'm pretty confident he won't (yes I'm using player meta *is teleported away by Yithians*). Can't say third vote is any more suspicious than the second, nobody's in any danger at that point, and really, I have to wonder if some of you are merely attacking the easy target.
Lastly, my good friend Handley. You have some good points, but you need to relax sometimes - Bike might be bafflingly dumb, but he hasn't done anything outright bad beyond spew bollocks around as if it's the день радио bollocks sale, and people like that are best countered with more bollocks, and not votes. Speaking of which, aren't Monorails cheap these days? Bike might be interested in one, considering how he lives там где дяволь говорит "Спокойной ночи", so to speak. In other words, lighten up - but at least you aren't being suspicious, imho.
All Russian I post is strictly flavour and not game-related at all - that being said, if you guys want me to put translations alongside in brackets or not use it at all, just mention that and I will do thusly as recommended by the other players in this game.
-
"Gotta second yer worries 'bout the kid, Nathan, though mainly cuz he admits Bike's story's not all there 'n' still votes on the one who said the same I'm gettin' pretty worried 'bout that lil' group o'Bike, Giovanni, Sam, and recently Chad here. At leas' one o'em's up to sumin', prob'ly more'n one. Bike's still toppa my list, though.
((Peyton, to answer your question, he should've dropped it, but)) "Peyton, I mentioned that Jack here was a lil' suspicious (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104548.html#msg104548) an' he got all defensive 'n' blew it way outta proportion (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104584.html#msg104584). I never direc'ly accused him o'nothin' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104586.html#msg104586) ((and still got an OMGUS reaction -- yay, I'm learning online-mafia terminology slowly!)). So if that part o'the discussion's yer worry, then ya should be worryin' more about his reaction than about what I said. Think about it, an' maybe read o'er what Nathan's been recordin' o'what we've all said.
"Giovanni, I ne'er said I wouldn't change my vote if'n a good reason came up, just said I don't expect one to. Feel free to fix that if ya can; I'll be all ears. But as the sun drops, we gotta make some decisions fer good soon; won't be safe to drag this out another day. So 'less ye've got a better suggestion, I've prob'ly made mine."
((Translations would be nice, Niko. And you're making two very extraordinary claims. First you're assuming a potentially serious vote is a jokevote which is extraordinarily dangerous and the trap into which so many others seem to be falling, and then you're somehow declaring that because an action is suspicious it's not suspicious anymore. I really don't know what to say to something as ridiculous as the latter claim, but as for the first one...Have you guys all been trying to say that, in the DL, even scum make only joke votes on the first day? That sounds really implausible given their informational advantage, but if that's what you're all saying, then I can see your problems with the argument. I just find that ridiculously, utterly impossible to believe.))
-
((There should be a period after "same" in the first line. Apologies for the uneditable typo.))
-
"Gotta second yer worries 'bout the kid, Nathan, though mainly cuz he admits Bike's story's not all there 'n' still votes on the one who said the same I'm gettin' pretty worried 'bout that lil' group o'Bike, Giovanni, Sam, and recently Chad here. At leas' one o'em's up to sumin', prob'ly more'n one. Bike's still toppa my list, though.
((Peyton, to answer your question, he should've dropped it, but)) "Peyton, I mentioned that Jack here was a lil' suspicious (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104548.html#msg104548) an' he got all defensive 'n' blew it way outta proportion (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104584.html#msg104584). I never direc'ly accused him o'nothin' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104586.html#msg104586) ((and still got an OMGUS reaction -- yay, I'm learning online-mafia terminology slowly!)). So if that part o'the discussion's yer worry, then ya should be worryin' more about his reaction than about what I said. Think about it, an' maybe read o'er what Nathan's been recordin' o'what we've all said.
"Giovanni, I ne'er said I wouldn't change my vote if'n a good reason came up, just said I don't expect one to. Feel free to fix that if ya can; I'll be all ears. But as the sun drops, we gotta make some decisions fer good soon; won't be safe to drag this out another day. So 'less ye've got a better suggestion, I've prob'ly made mine."
((Translations would be nice, Niko. And you're making two very extraordinary claims. First you're assuming a potentially serious vote is a jokevote which is extraordinarily dangerous and the trap into which so many others seem to be falling, and then you're somehow declaring that because an action is suspicious it's not suspicious anymore. I really don't know what to say to something as ridiculous as the latter claim, but as for the first one...Have you guys all been trying to say that, in the DL, even scum make only joke votes on the first day? That sounds really implausible given their informational advantage, but if that's what you're all saying, then I can see your problems with the argument. I just find that ridiculously, utterly impossible to believe.))
Maybe you don't have a whole lot of experience holding your liquor, friend, but a man in his cups taking a thing out of proportion ain't exactly rare.
Besides, you made a nudge in the way of Mr. Daniels being complicit in MURDER. Ain't much a gentleman can do to blow that OUT of proportion. For him to turn it back around on you when you start spouting off crackpot theories seems plenty reasonable to me.
((To answer your question, it's traditional around here for everyone to lay a jokevote before the game really kicks off, although that seems to have somewhat faded recently to "everyone lays a jokevote until someone gets a random bee in their bonnet and starts This Are Serious Mafia.))
((It's not unheard of for scum to "hide" a serious vote in the jokevote phase - which is why I'm personally uncomfortable with multiple jokevotes on the same person, and mentioned such in my first post - but I'll admit it's damned rare, and essentially never EFFECTIVE. It gets Scum nothing unless they drop that early jokevote, then shift into hardcore lurking for the next thirty or so hours and see if a townie latches onto that person so the Scum can piggyback the train.))
((Not to mention, your whole argument reeks of WIFOM (Wine in Front of Me, a reference to the Princess Bride meaning you're trying to second-guess someone who has more information than you). Scum play is Scum play, and even on the vanishingly rare chance there's something relevant in the jokevote phase, if you're Town you have no reason to even TRY to guess such a subtle ploy.))
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"Long as we're all in this room, we're all murder suspects, Peyton. A bit o'suspicion from one suspect to another ain't reason to fly off the handle.
"But really, if this issue's botherin' ya so much, I'll take even my lil' suspicions offa the table if'n it makes all o'ya feel better 'bout it. Jack ain't my worry, I've said plenty o'times right now. Ain't even in th'top five. He's just made all o'ya think that cuz he's been blowing shit outta proportion like I said, and tha's the reason he has."
((What you described is exactly what I said was my minor suspicion about Jack: dropping a vote, then hiding behind drunken rambles as he didn't actually remove it, seeing if anyone else would latch onto it. So what's your issue here?))
-
Tyrone, Son, I think you...
Son, don't you...
Son...
Sorry son, I just can't stop laughing. Sounds more'n more like you're speaking in tongues the way you go on about this nonsense. The only thing I can't really resolve is just why the culprit would act so crazed. There ain't no reason to want an old fisherman dead so badly like this. Ain't no insanity plea going to save you if it comes down to it, though, no sir.
Screw you, Commie. I've made more meaningful input than at least most, and resent the implication I've been a ball of gas, much less unlearned. At best I'm thinking you've got the reading comprehension of a mathematician. My voting finger is pointing at the Hellrabbit for damn good reasons as well, not for disliking the cut of his suit. Well, the cut of his... outfit. No clue where you're pulling that claim from. My pointer still hasn't moved from him to Tyrone even with this growing madness is that while I can't fathom why anyone would act the way Tyrone has, I sure can see the guilt in the way the Hellguppy's been movin'.
I ain't holding much of a grudge for Kyle's vote on me. I think he's dressed his argument up like a pig in braces with all sorts of unnecessary trimmings that have just been distractions ('how can we trust you', me supposedly being anti-RP and the like), but I can at least see the core to swear by - I can see why'n he'd see a potential flustered culprit behind it. He's wrong, of course, but it's a darn sight better than the two crazed 'gotcha' arguments that are on the table otherwise (plus it's day one). The only thing that gets me about it all is just how much it's been dressed up and pushed strongly from mostly the wrong directions. Chad I'm thinking is on him for the right reason, but Ronald I'm thinking is a plot twist or two behind.
...
Oh man, son, you're still talking? 'N back to that oddly specific set of suspects despite'n your cases being so vague. I'm sorry son, but I'm pretty much done talking to you if all you've got is this ankle-biting madness.
-
Votecount!
William Hellsnake [2]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Chad Hutchins, Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Moses Bike
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko) [2]: Jack Daniels, Chad Hutchins, Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus O'Malley (Excal) [1]: Bill Hellsnake, Pietro, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves
Pietro [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [1]: Peyton Hadley, Ethan Hayles
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [5]: Peyton Hadley, Moses Bike, Jack Daniels, Martin Andrews, Pietro, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Nathan Greaves
Moses Bike [3]: Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko), Bill Hellsnake
Chad Hutchins [1]: Nathan Greaves
There's 24 hours left in the day. With 15 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
-
"Long as we're all in this room, we're all murder suspects, Peyton. A bit o'suspicion from one suspect to another ain't reason to fly off the handle.
"But really, if this issue's botherin' ya so much, I'll take even my lil' suspicions offa the table if'n it makes all o'ya feel better 'bout it. Jack ain't my worry, I've said plenty o'times right now. Ain't even in th'top five. He's just made all o'ya think that cuz he's been blowing shit outta proportion like I said, and tha's the reason he has."
((What you described is exactly what I said was my minor suspicion about Jack: dropping a vote, then hiding behind drunken rambles as he didn't actually remove it, seeing if anyone else would latch onto it. So what's your issue here?))
If he ain't even in the top five, how'd it come to be that we're still talking about it?
Seems to me it's because you mentioned it again here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104628.html#msg104628) after the matter was a hair from dropping.
Seems to me this is the crux of your argument on Daniels and no small part of your beef with Bike as well: folks who just come into the matter and laid down the first thought they had before any of us knew a damned thing, you're holding to those first thoughts. You're implying - implying, hell, voting! - they're a pack of dirty scum trying to slip in under the radar.
Who knows. Maybe they are.
But you sure don't have any evidence. The only thing you've got that's LIKE evidence is Mr. Bike's appeal to the heavens, and between you and Kyle you've managed to act a lot more suspicious on that account than Bike his own self.
((Yes, what I described is something Scum sometimes do. It's even possible ScumDaniels did it. But TownDaniels would play it exactly the same way if he's sticking to flavor, maybe even if he wasn't. It's WIFOM as all hell.))
((The jokevote phase is for jokes, man. I don't like it for exactly that reason, but most here DO, Town or Scum. If you don't believe me, take a peek at past DL Mafia games and you'll see. People like to have fun with it at the beginning of day 1 and don't want to play incredibly subtle mind games that have a near-zero chance of either working or being meaningful.))
((Now, with that said, on a reread I'm a bit taken aback by something Bike said here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104621.html#msg104621). He calls his initial vote for Tyrone a jokevote, and... eh, I can't say the jokephase was definitively over and I've seen people here get upset if they don't get the chance to participate in it, but if genuinely a jokevote, it feels late TO ME. Defending it as such seems unneccessary, and maybe even a little disingenuous? Better to say it was a "flavor vote" than a "jokevote," but perhaps that's just semantics.))
((But then, going overboard in defense of what seemed reasonable to begin with has become something of a theme with Bike and I'm liking it less as I go on. The flip side of this is that the overreactions in response have been even MORE extreme. Gah.))
((Back up a second. Let's go back to this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104637.html#msg104637)? Your answer to my question here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104632.html#msg104632).))
((I asked:))
What do YOU think Jack should've done when he got called on his jokevote by Pietro, in the jokevote phase?
((And you answered:))
Peyton, to answer your question, he should've dropped it
((Dropped it. Meaning his vote. Meaning removed his vote and either voted for, uh, a different jokevote since at the time Pietro "called him on it" absolutely nothing had happened - or removed his vote for being "called on it" and had no vote down at all in the jokevote phase, despite posting?))
((Happen to notice what happened to the first person NOT to vote? He attracted the first real suspicion of the day. Not having a vote down is pretty much asking to get lynched, which is bad whether you're Town or Scum.))
-
((Crap, just noticed I left a "radar" reference in the supposedly in-character section of the post. :( ))
-
If he ain't even in the top five, how'd it come to be that we're still talking about it?
Seems to me it's because you mentioned it again here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104628.html#msg104628) after the matter was a hair from dropping.
"Just addressed that, Peyton. When he an' Bike brought up my lil' beef with Daniels like you're doing, I answered; there's a reason fer my suspicion and I'm not gonna pretend there ain't. But I'm not acting on th'reason oth'r'n clarifyin' it when people ask, cuz it ain't a strong one yet. What yer quoting was when I was speaking to Bike cuz he'd just brought it up again; I wouldn've mentioned it otherwise, cuz I only have whenever someone's overreacted 'bout it. I will drop it if'n ya don't mention it, unless Daniels gives me some other reasons to suspect'm. An' he hasn't so far."
You're implying - implying, hell, voting! - they're a pack of dirty scum trying to slip in under the radar. Who knows. Maybe they are. But you sure don't have any evidence. The only thing you've got that's LIKE evidence is Mr. Bike's appeal to the heavens, and between you and Kyle you've managed to act a lot more suspicious on that account than Bike his own self.
"If'n you're just saying 'tain't enough evidence (well, that an' his votes for two people I'm pretty sure'r innocent), I c'n understand that, and frankly I agree. But it is evidence, enough'r not, an more'n I've seen on anyone else. Best place fer my vote'd be no one cuz I'd rather not get anyone lynched hastily, but if'n we gotta get the killer today before he gets someone else, I'ma put my vote on the best suspect, even if it ain't a perfect one. An' that'd be Bike."
((The jokevote phase is for jokes, man. I don't like it for exactly that reason, but most here DO, Town or Scum. If you don't believe me, take a peek at past DL Mafia games and you'll see. People like to have fun with it at the beginning of day 1 and don't want to play incredibly subtle mind games that have a near-zero chance of either working or being meaningful.))
...
((Dropped it. Meaning his vote. Meaning removed his vote and either voted for, uh, a different jokevote since at the time Pietro "called him on it" absolutely nothing had happened - or removed his vote for being "called on it" and had no vote down at all in the jokevote phase, despite posting?))
((Happen to notice what happened to the first person NOT to vote? He attracted the first real suspicion of the day. Not having a vote down is pretty much asking to get lynched, which is bad whether you're Town or Scum.))
((Not having a vote before any evidence at all is just as easily not wanting to lynch a fellow townie, in my books. Again I'm apparently unfamiliar with how you guys do it here at DL, where you seem to have set town/scum voting patterns on day 1, but not wanting to give a random accusation seems a lot more like a townie decision than a scum decision; the former takes a risk with any vote, while the latter's got plenty of voting options that are favorable without seeming suspicious at all. So if you guys don't take that into account here, that explains my issue with Daniels, I guess, in which case my suspicion of him is significantly less. I'll take a look through older Mafia threads here and see if I can figure out why you guys are so much more liberal with accusations on day 1, on both sides. Just a matter of playstyle I suppose.))
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((Damnit. Accounts. That is me. Fml.))
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You know, Callahan, I'm done with you. Either you're a killer or a damned fool. But you know what? Even if you ARE a killer, I don't rightly believe you're the only one here, and I didn't come to this Godforsaken town to do things by halves.
::Peyton slowly, deliberately turns his back on Tyrone.::
We've got a room full of folks here and I'm willing to bet it wasn't just one who murdered Mr. Hutchins. Let's see those notebooks, Greaves. It's time I took a trip down memory lane.
((I've had no less than four different reasons to be on you and I'm willing to allow at least some leeway for Player Meta. Even if I still think you're the scummiest player so far, I don't have any more to say about your play than what I've said so far, and I have no bead on the rest of the game. It's time to rectify that.))
((In other words, get your hanfu on, vote Yao to the All-Star Game and start studying your Analects, 'cause the Great Wall of Text is probably coming... ;)))
-
PIETRO GIOVANNI
FLAVOR
I appreciate these fine libations you've provided us, Mr. Giovanni, but you haven't provided a great deal more. Looking back, you were the one talking folks down early on, leading to my brief spat with Mr. Dale and, from the opposite direction, Mr. Callahan's suggestion Mr. Daniels swallow his suspcions. You poke Mr. O'Malley regarding his vote on Mr. Bike, on account of it's specious reasoning - agreed. Then, finally, you voted for Mr. Callahan, which I can't rightly blame you for, seeing as how it's for the same general reasons I did.
It ain't much, but what's there ain't bad, either.
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104369.html#msg104369)
2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104501.html#msg104501)
3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104633.html#msg104633)
ANALYSIS
Peyton Hadley may think what's there ain't bad because he can be a bit narcissistic when people agree with him, but Bobbin Cranbud has a different take. Three posts, only two with game content, and of those, while I agree with both, NEITHER INTRODUCES A SINGLE NEW THING TO THE GAME. That COULD be innocent, but it's also absolutely IDEAL lurkscum play. Doubly so because no one else seems to have noticed it.
SO going to watch you on this count, because DAMN.
-
((Flavor's gonna suffer because I don't have as much time as I thought. Sorry. :( )
WILLIAM HELLSNAKE
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104374.html#msg104374), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104437.html#msg104437), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104456.html#msg104456), 4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104502.html#msg104502), 5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104519.html#msg104519), 6 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104610.html#msg104610),
7 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104615.html#msg104615)
ANALYSIS
There are four points here.
One, Hellsnake sits on no vote for a long time while stirring the pot with Ty and Bike and throwing vague accusations at Chad. This is bad play and when he gets called on it, he defends it. Once you're out of the jokevote phase, if you suspect someone, put a vote down. Hell, vote/unvote half the pair and then vote the other half, if you want to show you seriously want people looking at them. This is important because it generates a vote record we can judge in latter days.
Two, the vote Hellsnake DOES put down is on O'Malley, the same person he jokevoted, and it's OMGUS. But, despite ample reason to suspect Hellsnake at that point, O'Malley's actual accusation seems to be inaccurate and I'm not sure where he got it. So I can sympathise with the reciprocal vote.
Third, in this same post, Hellsnake mentions a "Seamus/Chad buddy system," which... see below.
Finally, Hellsnake correctly points out that Bike voted him for not having a vote down AFTER he had done so, and votes Bike for it. Hellsnake's reaction is severe but he immediately notes it and backs off on his attitude, but not his stance.
My views on Hellsnake will probably come out of my views of Seamus and Chad, once I get to them. If he's right about their buddying up, his voting pattern makes some sense despite early playstyle complaints. Otherwise, he has been, at best, playing poorly.
Lower on my suspicions list than Callahan for the reasons stated many times, and Pietro for slipping so smoothly under the radar, which I can say all I like OOC, dammit!
-
NATHAN GREAVES
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104409.html#msg104409), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104531.html#msg104531), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104533.html#msg104533), 4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104543.html#msg104543), 5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104544.html#msg104544), 6 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104631.html#msg104631)
ANALYSIS
Votes for me! Oh My God U Scum! ;-) Seriously, though, I can see where he's coming from on my initial "two jokevotes on the same person" vote and can only disagree, however mildly. In other news, I agree with him about overpressing Bike and Callahan saying a lot of nothing, no news there. (IRONY!)
Pretty much the only other thing going on is his case on Chad. It's interesting because it's basically a more extreme version of the case he originally called ME on. But, the vote in question comes after the jokevote phase is over and it's #3 rather than #2, which makes Greaves's case a lot stronger than mine was.
Not seeing anything problematic here.
-
SEAMUS O'MALLEY (aka SEAMUS O'EXCAL)
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104454.html#msg104454), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104514.html#msg104514)
ANALYSIS
Votes for Bike for little to no reason, but I guess that's the requisite flavor/jokevote?
Then votes for Hellsnake, not - or not just - for not voting, not - or not just - for cheerleading the burgeoning Ty/Bike rift... but for accusing Chad of doing the "same thing" Hellsnake is doing. Which... Hellsnake hadn't done. He'd thrown a (possibly flavor?) accusation, to that point. Weird.
So, O'Malley's one substantive post contains a vote on what appears to be an inaccurate basis. On the other hand, it was a reasonable DIRECTION for a vote and it does introduce/expose new content, even the CORRECT content.
Not as poisonous a job of lurking as Pietro because of that one decent post. I can't make a judgment on this much content, so... POST MOAR.
(Even though O'Malley doesn't look good, on this reread I think Hellsnake looks worse because there's only one mention of Chad in O'Malley's post and it's not especially defensive of Chad.)
-
And with that I'm out of time. Crap. :(
Sick dog is sick, work soon, NBA Playoffs tonight, unsure when I'll be able to continue. Hopefully this analysis so far will be useful and I'll be back before deadline.
-
Not having a vote before any evidence at all is just as easily not wanting to lynch a fellow townie, in my books.
((But by that logic, best play for Town on D1 start is not to random-vote because you're more likely to vote a Townie, and that obviously means that discussion never starts.))
"Hey, the Russian speaks English after all! A few things that you probably oughta talk about in more detail, though."
More to the point, your vote for Hellsnake seems based on...again, flavour.
"I dunno, this quote I have of the old man here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104549.html#msg104549) seems to make it pretty clear he was on Hellsnake for not being enough of a man to put a vote down. Where does flavour play into that?"
I've had to tutor [Chad] once, and while a little...lacking in some aspects, he's a good man, merely quiet at first
((How much of this connection between your characters is flavour, and how much is just Alex!meta? I've only played three games here, and all three were anonymous so yeah.))
"Not sure if there's much point hanging around on Chad today - guess he's too popular round these parts to get accused D1, plus the deceased is sorta his father and he isn't gonna be around for a while. I'm watching him, though.
I'm willing to go along with voting for Ty (who's still being completely nonsensical) and Kyle (for being way way WAAY too aggressive over flavour) today, but in particular I don't think Bike's done anything to be worth sticking up on the gallows today. Or shooting, or burning at the stake, or however you guys execute your criminals here in Marbury. Sorry, I was sorta in a rush on the way here and I didn't do the background research."
##Unvote, Vote: Tyrone (L-2)
-
"Gotta second yer worries 'bout the kid, Nathan, though mainly cuz he admits Bike's story's not all there 'n' still votes on the one who said the same I'm gettin' pretty worried 'bout that lil' group o'Bike, Giovanni, Sam, and recently Chad here. At leas' one o'em's up to sumin', prob'ly more'n one. Bike's still toppa my list, though.
((Peyton, to answer your question, he should've dropped it, but)) "Peyton, I mentioned that Jack here was a lil' suspicious (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104548.html#msg104548) an' he got all defensive 'n' blew it way outta proportion (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104584.html#msg104584). I never direc'ly accused him o'nothin' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104586.html#msg104586) ((and still got an OMGUS reaction -- yay, I'm learning online-mafia terminology slowly!)). So if that part o'the discussion's yer worry, then ya should be worryin' more about his reaction than about what I said. Think about it, an' maybe read o'er what Nathan's been recordin' o'what we've all said.
"A l'il suspicious? A l'il suspicious? You no-good sausage suckin' democracy-hatin' kraut-lovin'..." he trails off, not-so-subtly looking at Peitro and shutting up immediately afterwards. Another drink down the hatch, and he regains his courage. "Heck, if you go by yer numbers you placed me at the second or third most scummy sumbitch out o' the lot, after Moses and Pietro. An' fer what? A drunken outburst? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit."
"Way I sees it, there are two ways this can go. The... the one I s'spect? You's kickin' up dust, tryin' to earn the trust of the good folk o' Marbury by fakin' at bein' a good soldier, tryin' a find the killer. Mebbeh yer wrong, mebbeh yer right, but the point is yer always lookin' fer the shit on the shoe. Now placin' me so high? If it'd'd worked you'd get folks accusin' me of the crime since I was so high up on yer list. Whoever dun the crime's got to play the field, make the troops be where 'e wants 'em. 's as close as I done seen to that so far.
Naahh ((Now, not No)), maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this just is yer first hand and yeh don't know the house rules. ((OOC Translation: Seriously. Go look at any other mafia game. DL Mafia games almost always start out with a bunch of nonsense joke votes that get tossed out once people have something more to go on; frankly, never having played on another board before, I'm not sure what else you think we're SUPPOSED to do. That instead of doing some very minor legwork and checking into this, you're beating a dead horse really doesn't help your case.)) If'n yer arguments against anyone else made a lick o sense to me, well I reckon I'd be more inclined to let you stay in the trenches."
"And, if y'will, I held my "real" vote til the moment I found someone who stank enough to warrant it."
He shakes his bottle of moonshine, and a bit of liquid sloshes around in the bottle. "Almost empty. T'ain't a good thing atall. I can't afford mor'n three bottles a day and this is the third one. If you think I'm an asshole now, just watch me when I'm sober." Daniels looks around at the people still millin' about. "I dun forgot what I said about you, Nathan. Read it back, if'n you please."
Then, a lightbulb. "Ah, yeh, the third vote. Just don't strike me as much of a tell. Holdin' the line and keepin' to the trenches is all well and good but we t'wern't in such a danger that the Kaiser could sneak up on us just 'cuz-o-that. Still, 'sides that I ain't got nothin' on yeh, least not mor'in on Tyrone, and..."
"Speakin' o' which, Chad. Kid's got instincts. Knows the field. Little out of it at times but he knows what he's doing. Question is, what is he doing?"
"An' Lyle... Kyle... shit, don't matter. The salesman. See, I don't like Moses' ramblin none the more than any o' you all. Man can talk at a guy til his bottle's empty if you let him. But shit, you all seen it. Ain't no substance to it. Ain't much good at makin' shit up so detailed, either. No novelist, for damn sure. If I'm gettin' at Tyrone for makin' a mountain out of a molehill, may's well get on you too."
((OOC: I don't think the backstory tells us much one way or the other, but I don't think it's completely made up. Too many details that could be easily contradicted, etc. At the same time it's not a direct quote since Moses isn't modkilled, and omission is still _very_ possible, not to mention easier and less likely to contradict someone else's role PM. That said, I think too much has been made out of it; at the risk of meta, it's Xanth, dudes. I watched Meme mafia. That's how the guy talks. Moreover, airing out as much information as possible only helps town.
AT THE SAME (META) TIME, I don't really think Kyle/Sopko's reaction implies that he's scum, either. Sopko likes RP. Sopko dislikes when RP is broken unnecessarily. I don't know which way to go on this, since Sopko knows these things as well and it all might be misdirection. Frankly, I think Chad Alex has a greater possibility of being scum at this point, but none of these 3 strike me as scummier than Tyrone right now. Perhaps a later lynch for information may be necessary, but I'm not willing to gamble that quite yet.))
-
((Back for at least a little while, sick dog is less sick, thankfully, but still not out of the woods. Work can wait till after dinner.))
((But before I get back to my character by character analysis, a moment to address Greaves.))
By God, Greaves, you're right. Mr. Bike's accusation toward Hellsnake makes a sight more sense than I originally though. Not an accusation of 'not having a vote down,' but of 'not having had one, and defended that inaction.'
::Peyton winces.::
What's this business of hanging, burning and assorted and sundry mayhem, though? I was under the impression we were meaning to deliver our suspect up to the proper authorities? Unless, that is, the locals have some reason to believe that wouldn't exactly see justice done...?
If that's so, well, it wouldn't be the first time I've had to take matters into my own hands. Suppose I can only pray it'll be the last, or there'll BE a last.
I... suppose if it has to come to that, Callahan still looks the worst to me so far. But neither Hellsnake nor Giovanni have been anything like squeaky clean, and that's just out of a handful of folks I've read your scribblings on. I sure ain't ready see a hammer dropped just yet.
((Needless to say, not advocating No Lynch OOC, just playing up the shock in character. Good spot on Bike/Hellsnake and Kolmogorov's reaction to it.))
::Peyton is dimensional shambler'd by Jack Daniels::
((But there's nothing to comment on in Daniels' post except to say I agree with it.))
-
Russkie's back'n town, I see. No doubt figured we'd send a posse after him elseways. An' blatherin' in' fancy forein' tounges no less. If we did'nae have a murd'rer t' catch here I'd be askin' 'im t'step outside right now, talkin' 'bout good ol' Marbury beer like 'at. But we do, an' we shoul' be findin' 'im firs'. Not that Ruskie's contributin' much t' 'at either, truth be tol'. Jumpin' on Callahan's easy, an' defendin' poor Hutchins's hardly goin' t'be unpop'l'r.
What 'e say's 'bout Handley's true 'nough though. I'll say this fer t' salesm'n, 'e's keepin' thin's more con-cise like 'n some others I coul' name - but fer a guy who's speakin' up often enough, 'andley's said nothin' other'n 'bout two peoples, an' one o' them's 'isself. I think t' kid's jumpin' t' gun a little; what 'e's said about Bike's been reas'nable enough (And young Hutchins even seemed t' be agreein' wit it - and yet voted 'im fer't anyway? Callin' out those as is bein' unhelpful is good fer all've us, 'less you've somethin' t'hide). I want t' see Handley broad'nin' is gaze, but 't's minor in t' scheme o' tings.
(An' this may sound callous of me, but I don' like us givin' t'kid a free pass on account of who 'e is. Not that I could ever tell what 'e was thinkin' myself, but 't's unhealt'y placin' anyone above suspic'n, day 1 or no).
Callahan were all over t' place earlier; I near voted 'im back 't lunch, but 'e's readin' like 'e coul' jus' be an ign'rant outsider of late. Not that them's any kinda good folks t' be havin' either, but 's not 'nough t'say 'e's a murderer. Yet. Greaves' surprisin' me jus' makes; I don' wan' no outsiders thinkin' they shoul' bes givin' ol' Ty a li'l "accident" afore 'is time's due. It may well be we'll see fit t' 'ang 'im 'ere sundown, but democr'cy mus' serve i's course firs'. Hadley has the right of it; 'e's a fool either way, an' I'd miss 'im less than most of t'rest'f you's, but 't's worth lookin' f'r an' outrigh' killer firs', an' we's gettin' nowhere jus' starin' a' Callahan all focus-like. ('Less, o' course, one of you's seen somethin' tha' says he's bein' more'n jus' foolish?)
Speakin' o' Hadley, th' man sure does like to talk pow'rf'l much. Haven't read 'im closely enough t'say more'n't yet though, an I've been starin' 't this long enough. O'Malley's done nothin' t' make 'isself any better, an' while the... magnitude of Callahan's clownin' is more, I's not yet convinced 'ts truly sin'ster. What little we've ha' from O'Malley is more vill'n than fool, so I'm... satisfied enoug' with my's vote f'now.
An' I've been ruminatin' so long, even t' boozehound's gotten t' jump on me. Hadley too. Clearly my fac'lties aren' wha' theys use' t'be.
-
But in fact, the next person on my list is...
JACK DANIELS
FLAVOR
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104362.html#msg104362), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104387.html#msg104387), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104405.html#msg104405), 4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104417.html#msg104417), 5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104540.html#msg104540), 6 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104545.html#msg104545), 7 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104550.html#msg104550), 8 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104584.html#msg104584), 9 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104588.html#msg104588) (with a minor correction I'm not listing as a post), 10 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104592.html#msg104592), 11 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104663.html#msg104663)
ANALYSIS
Jokevotes, call for clarification, irrelevant, etc., moving on. His first real post is a general call-to-action-with-heavy-flavor, coming out on the Hellsnake side of the Hellsnake/O'Malley row. Which... that specific disagreement, I can agree with, but I still don't care for Hellsnake's play, so... whatever.
Ends up spending most of his time dealing with Callahan's fake drunkenness allegations, until just now. I think it's obvious what I think of those allegations, which is to say not much at all, but defending against a poor attack doesn't credit Daniels.
His most recent post does, though, I think. Not a lot of NEW content, but a lot of content and GOOD content. I feel pretty good about his play so far. As I mentioned in my last post, everything he says in HIS last post gels with my take.
-
RONALD DALE
FLAVOR
Say, there, Mr. Dale, I hope I didn't give you a case of the nerves by jumping on you for a bit early on. From one artistic type to another, no harm, I trust? I ask, on account of you haven't said a great deal since then and maybe you aren't feeling altogether. Why, I'd say you aren't even giving yourself credit.
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104398.html#msg104398), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104634.html#msg104634)
ANALYSIS
Two posts, one I disagreed with mildly at the outset, but that didn't go anywhere. Later stated to be an attempt to move things out of jokevote phase, and, well, it actually seems to have done a fairly good job of that.
The other post is his vote for Kyle/Sopko. At least until I get to my read of Sopko, I don't object to anything except the vehemence of Kyle's case, so once again I find myself disagreeing. But it seems less like a "how scum!" kind of disagreement, more just a different thought process.
Mostly, I just don't see much content here. What's there is decent, and even helped move us out of jokevote phase early. POST MOAR.
Since this one was light, let's do two-for-one in one post and check out:
ETHAN HALES
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104356.html#msg104356), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104442.html#msg104442), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104574.html#msg104574)
ANALYSIS
One more post than Dale, but one less of content. And they're connected! First post is a jokevote, whatever. Second is a vote FOR Dale, complete with, well, basically my original reasoning on the matter. Which was relevant for all of a minute to me before something slightly less mildly suspicious turned up in a ninja post and I changed gears. I can see disagreeing with Dale, but voting for him? That far into the game? For what amounts to "you killed my joke phase?"
Huh.
Third post basically calls out Callahan for bad play but says it's not scummy, just bad, and pretty much the same regarding Bike. And leaves the vote on Dale, now as a lurker prod, which is kind of a fair cop since Dale's been lurking. Except, Hayles has ALSO been lurking, with the same number of posts if you discount the jokevote, and his reasons for his lone SRS MAFIA vote seem much weaker.
Low content and what's there comes across "safer" than Dale's, since Dale took some early risks. Not liking what I see here.
-
"It just came to my attention that I hadn't been readin' the scriptures too dang closely. ((Specifically, the rule where Snowfire said he'd make things up on request to discourage setting-based metagaming.)) Seems like the Christian thing to do is pray a spell longer on Moses' story afore I make any further strat'gy on that front."
-
I'm sorry Peyton, I seem to have dozed off in the middle of all that. These old bones and all that. I like your spunk and usin' yer old acting skills to really getting into the guise of detection, but by golly I'm not reading through a script nearly that long. (haha, I know)
I'd have to ask the professional Mr. Greaves about it, but I do go and wonder how much of that can possibly be good for us in the here and now, and how much of it is just some sort of blind journalism. All smoke and no fire is no good way to keep warm.
-
CHAD HUTCHINS
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104425.html#msg104425), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104453.html#msg104453), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104607.html#msg104607)
ANALYSIS
Claims his third vote on Hellsnake was intentional to generate controversy. Considering this is Alex we're talking about, I'll certainly believe it - though this is no tell one way or another, again at least in part since it's Alex.
His actual vote lands on Kyle/Soppy, and then he excuses himself. No reason to doubt the excuse so I'll avoid a lurker call, for now. As for the vote, well, I kneejerk disagreeing with it, but we'll see when I get to its recipient.
Speaking of which...
KYLE HANDLEY (Hunter Sopko)
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104395.html#msg104395), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104419.html#msg104419), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104556.html#msg104556),
4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104570.html#msg104570), 5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104597.html#msg104597)
ANALYSIS
Definitely no complaints about the AMOUNT of content, and plenty of it is original to him. Also, plenty of it is very aggressive, which I know is at least in part a playstyle issue. As such, he's not playing it anything like safe.
And that content? It's his case on Moses Bike. Which is...
Re-reading, I just... still don't see it. Bike is extremely quick to go overboard in his own defense, absolutely. But the specific instance Kyle/Sopko harped on so strongly is only bad because it's out of proportion to the heat Bike was under, and I CAN see legitimate reasons to nip it in the bud so strongly.
Ultimately, I feel like Bike has given only a null tell on this issue, which makes Kyle/Sopko's attack way too strong.
More, it makes it too FOCUSED.
Kyle/Sopko has no post-joke-phase content on anyone else. I was close to this with Callahan, hence this series of posts, so it's a semi-hypocritical point, but a point nonetheless. I'd like to see Sopko direct some of that hard-nosed inquisitiveness toward the rest of the field, not just one target that doesn't seem that bad to me.
And now, off to dinner...
-
"Hargreaves, he's not exactly in mortal peril right now. He's still two votes away from a majority vote, but more importantly we're starting to run out of time a little. Nothing good comes from a missed deadline, and I can tell you that from experience. Besides that, I really think Bike's done nothing to earn himself a place as our second lynch candidate, so I'm showing my preference in the most effective way I can.
And honestly, if you want to see Tyrone as ignorant, you'd have to throw in that he's being damn stubborn as well. He's been called out over his cases on Bike and Daniels who knows how many times by now, and he's still holding to them and offering nothing else when it comes to the rest of the suspects beyond some list of meaningless numbers. That's willful ignorance, if you ask me.
I'm gonna have to agree with the old man when it comes to Hadley, though. Maybe finish your big report with a nice little concise piece at the end so we don't need to go through fourteen different life-stories? No offense, you're clearly trying here, but readers always have a preference for the short and sweet."
-
Honestly, gentlemen, I'm hieing off on this perusal of the facts of the case at least as much for my benefit. I like to keep my options open, and I can't do that proper if my eyes AIN'T, and frankly, it doesn't feel like they have been until just now. Callahan's been so in the forefront, I have to make myself look each and every other way, and that's what I'm doing.
I do know it's dancing around stepping on your toes, Greaves, but I'm doing my humble :ahem: best to keep from playing the reporter. A glance at MY previous posts'll tell you my thoughts on these folks haven't been as forthcoming as they ought to have been, till now.
Have no fears, though. Once I've wrapped my head around all this, I'll wrap everything I see up and hand it to you giftwrapped.
((Or summarize it, anyway.))
-
Saints above, have yer business take ye away fer a single day and already the folks start callin for me blood. If ye must know, there was business that needed tendin'. After all, t'ain't no good t'be findin' the killer a'fore he kills again if it leaves me meetin' Mr. Hutchinson fer lack o' food, and my poor family back home gone wit' me.
Now, it seems my worries o'er Mr. Hellsnake have caused others tae worry o'er me. But looking at what the snake has said, I cannae see it. The reason 'e gave fer his suspicion was poor, and nary a sign of it when he spoke of that same suspicion. As fer me bein' wrong? When a man says they think some poor fellow did bloody murder, I'd like tae imagine they've given a hint as to why, instead of sayin' a lot of fiddle-faddle tha' could mean anything.
/me spits into the nearby trash bin, then begins pointing at Chad Hutchins
I don't like you making them fingers into a triangle of suspicion, boy, but I figure Ty's got the right idea here, even if he's a li'l hot blooded. Reasons, motive, who was where, who has what. Like was mentioned, Sheriff found a real fancy dagger in 'is back, and tracks comin' out to the inn.
...come to think of it, how well off was y'r pa, boy?
Look at that, and I'll be amazed if a single blessed soul could tell me all the meanin' there before the man himself said there was none. Specially I'm lookin' at the triangle of suspicion, which he notes as bein' a thing he not be liking. When he was sayin' that, the only thing that Chad 'ere had done was look at the two men wit a mention, and add a third vote to Hellsnake 'imself. And that last was a thing of no great matter at all. And alla that's afore ye jump on Mr. Bike because ye were too daft tae hear 'im through. And even after ye did, ye don't comment on the part o' it that proves ye wrong. Ye don't take back yer words, or add in reasons that aren't as wrong as a pagan mass.
As fer Hargreaves, were ye nae taught tae think? Hellsnake 'imself said he had ne'er said a thing as to why Chad were suspicious until that same time he attacked me. So, why you're holdin' me tae account fer things he had yet to say, I have no idea.
Well, I do believe that's all that's been asked o' me. Now tae start looking again.
-
SAMUEL HARGREAVES
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104360.html#msg104360),
2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104526.html#msg104526), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104626.html#msg104626), 4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104667.html#msg104667)
ANALYSIS
Overall, one of the people whose flavor makes it, IMO, hard to tell what's Mafia play and what isn't. Maybe, hopefully, that's just me?
On to specifics. Of his three content posts, all address different things and one has a vote, which he's stuck with because... well, that's part of what he's explaining in his last post, but "hasn't gotten better" doesn't necessarily cut it to me, as a reason to leave a vote.
Not raising any red flags for me.
NIKOLAI KOLMOGOROV
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104635.html#msg104635)
ANALYSIS
If this wasn't Day 1, a single, solitary post without so much as a word of OOC excuse would suffice to raise my hackles.
But it is Day 1, and there's inevitably not much to go on. And it is, in fairness, a comprehensive post about the issues of the day to that point. Most of Kolmogorov's analysis seems sound to me, albeit a lot of it is... obvious, dressed up in academic language? Not nearly enough for me to be suspicious of at this point, but something I'll want to watch. The namedrop of being Chad's tutor (and the implication that this exonerates him, for all I don't think Chad has done anything suspicious to this point) stands out as a questionable element.
Needless to say, POST MOAR. Also, I don't mind the Russian interjections, but would like a translation just out of curiosity. :)
MARTIN ANDREWS
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104590.html#msg104590), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104594.html#msg104594)
ANALYSIS
Only two posts so far, and one of those a correction - but an excuse given, albeit it seems to have expired.
His one major post has nothing objectionable, but nothing original, either. Pretty much the same as Kolmogorov in terms of content, so far, and most of the same reactions apply.
::Peyton is dimensional shambler'd by Seamus::
Near as I can tell, Mr. O'Malley, amongst the very little Mr. Hellsnake DID say WASN'T a word as to a man having done bloody murder. That's such justification as the man offered for not laying his vote - and don't take me as defending him, on account of I think he was a fool not to do so. Still, you're putting words right into his mouth, near as I can tell.
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Mayhaps it is puttin' words in his mouth. But, I cannae help but think that all the thoughts of suspicion and such have tae do with the murder somehow. I mean, why else would he be so worried about the lad? A list o' folk 'e wants off 'is lawn?
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((Before I do anything else... like, get to work... :P I want to finish up this series, and the last entry is a big one. Summary will follow.))
MOSES BIKE
POSTS
1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104428.html#msg104428), 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104428.html#msg104428), 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104478.html#msg104478), 4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104549.html#msg104549), 5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104552.html#msg104552), 6 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104561.html#msg104561), 7 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104562.html#msg104562), 8 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104563.html#msg104563), 9 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104620.html#msg104620), 10 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104621.html#msg104621), 11 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104643.html#msg104643), 12 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104677.html#msg104677)
ANALYSIS
Lots of content, lots to examine.
Opening post is apparently pure flavor (either he's telling the truth and it is, or he's lying and, well, he's making it up and so it still is), but serves to kick off SRS MAFIA in a way nothing to this point has. Honestly, the biggest thing in this whole brouhaha to me? The specific "2-3 voices" thing, because if Bike IS Scum, that could be an attempt to lull Town into a false sense of security as to Scum's numbers. But that's trending toward WIFOM.
But, BUT, people jumped down Bike's throat for the explanation post. Kyle/Sopko most aggressively, but also Callahan in move that smacks of OMGUS. Bike AND others highlighted why this should have been a null tell.
Despite that, Bike continues to post about others as well as his attackers, despite their being very viable targets. Now that I understand his case on Hellsnake, I agree with it. Still, between two cases of bad play (Hellsnake and Callahan), I don't understand his choosing to switch gears at this point since Callahan still looks much worse to me.
Finally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if my long series of posts here turned out to be little good to Town, since they've gone on longer than I originally intended, so no argument there at the end.
Overall, I think Bike has done more to push us forward than anyone to this point and am flabbergasted to see he's the second-leading vote-getter. Man, what?
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"The lad" had just thrown an accusation of murder his way, Seamus. I imagine Hellsnake didn't feel exactly charitable to him, just then. Besides, with all the wrong Hellsnake's been doing, why single out a thing he actually DIDN'T? That's the thing I don't cotton to; no need to imply where there's ample fact to be had.
((Summary to follow.))
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SUMMARY
Well, after my overlong, occasionally random and possibly reportery series of posts, where do I stand?
Same place I started, on Tyrone Callahan. I thought this might change, but nope, on a re-read Callahan looks even worse. His arguments have been frankly atrocious; he's new and I could forgive that. But he's stuck to them with a vigor that goes beyond reasonable, and even allowing for different Mafia assumptions, his points about early Day 1 play and Bike's almost-quoting his role PM? Those are just bad. My vote stays.
Of the rest of the players, Pietro Giovanni stands out as a potentially dangerous lurker. Barely posting, providing no original opinions, but staying just active (and voting) enough to not be obviously lurking? That makes me VERY nervous.
Bill Hellsnake doesn't come across much better, because he stuck to his guns about some bad early play. Oddly enough, his accuser Seamus O'Malley seems stuck on the few things Hellsnake DIDN'T do wrong, which I'm not sure how to read.
Both Callahan and Hellsnake could be bad Townies rather than Scum, but I'd be surprised if BOTH were. Pietro, on the other hand, strikes me as well-played Scum, but this early on he COULD be suffering from a case of too little time.
Moses Bike seems the most Townie to me thus far. He's pushed discussion forward, covered a lot of topics, and the only knock on him is that he's been overly quick to defend himself. Oddly enough, his accuser Kyle Handley hasn't given me any Scum vibes. To me theirs sounds like a legitimate disagreement.
Lots of people have just not contributed much. Not even enough for me to see them as lurkers, on Day 1.
I'd be content with a Callahan, Hellsnake or Giovanni lynch, barring some new revelation, probably in that order.
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Once you're out of the jokevote phase, if you suspect someone, put a vote down. Hell, vote/unvote half the pair and then vote the other half, if you want to show you seriously want people looking at them.
((What a wonderful way to make sure none of your votes are ever taken seriously, voting for everyone you might suspect. I'm defintely seeing a playstyle disconnect between you and I, and it's not one I much like.))
Two, the vote Hellsnake DOES put down is on O'Malley, the same person he jokevoted, and it's OMGUS.
((Retaliatory votes are not inherently suspicious and I don't know where you're getting that idea. If the person being accused is town, him/her making a retaliatory vote isn't necessarily unjustified depending on the circumstances of the original accusation. There's a slight probability leaning towards him/her being scum but it's fairly negligible. That's the case here.))
((But by that logic, best play for Town on D1 start is not to random-vote because you're more likely to vote a Townie, and that obviously means that discussion never starts.))
((I never said not having a vote is always best; I just said it isn't an inherently suspicious play as Hadley claimed.))
((OOC Translation: Seriously. Go look at any other mafia game. DL Mafia games almost always start out with a bunch of nonsense joke votes that get tossed out once people have something more to go on; frankly, never having played on another board before, I'm not sure what else you think we're SUPPOSED to do. That instead of doing some very minor legwork and checking into this, you're beating a dead horse really doesn't help your case.))
((Yeah, far as I can tell from looking back, the initial phase of random accusations does seem to last a while here. Way I used to play, one or at most two usually proved more than enough to get discussions going. Beyond that the rest start to look like mafia trying to slip in "discussion-starters" that're actually bandwagon-starters on innocents. That was my worry about you.))
"You's kickin' up dust, tryin' to earn the trust of the good folk o' Marbury by fakin' at bein' a good soldier, tryin' a find the killer....If it'd'd worked you'd get folks accusin' me of the crime since I was so high up on yer list. Whoever dun the crime's got to play the field, make the troops be where 'e wants 'em. 's as close as I done seen to that so far.
"Damnit, Daniels, put that damn bottle down a sec and think 'fore ya speak. Iunno how in hell ya could possibly think I'm tryin'a get anyone on my side. If'n I were I'd've stuck with th'Hellsnake bandwagon what was formin' earlier. I'm voting t'kill scum, not t'get anyone's trust. Ain't nothin' I've done's in any way t'get people likin' me, cuz it's way more important we don't get killed tomorrow than we get t'likin' each other today. Fact is, all these people been accusing me yet this's the first time I've even been bothered t'defend myself rather'n spend my time gettin' to the bottom o'this. Why? Cuz this time I'm just insulted enough t'contest that stupid statement o'yours, but in gen'ral I know 'tain't me and just wanna figure out who it is. Tryin' t'get people's trust, my ass, me. Didn' happen even once, as ya'd see if'n you'd refresh yer drunken memory wi'the records."
((Okay, maybe I can see an argument for my trying to get Peyton's trust, based on the flavor statement that I made after refuting his original accusation. Got nothing but my word to say that I don't actually care about his trust. Other than him, who you haven't mentioned anyway, there is no possible way you can make an argument that I've tried to get anyone to trust me; I've done anything but that. I don't give a shit about defense on day one, because any suspicions of me are completely unfounded anyway so there's nothing against which I need to argue. Except this very claim that you just made, that is, which is as utterly ridiculous as the rest, as I've just illustrated.))
A feral growl slipped past Tyrone's throat as he glowered at the other suspects. "I defended a couple people I trusted here and there, and I've still never bothered to get anyone off my own case. Weren't my priority like tryin' to figure out the real killer. I'd jus' hoped this town were smart enough not to get to lynchin' the one who's maybe the best chance ya got at..." Sighing, Ty trailed off
and slammed a frustrated fist into the table once more. "Fuck it, then." Throwing up his hands in exasperation, Ty shook his head disappointedly. "All o'ya c'n go ahead an' do what ya think is right; guess I can't fault ya jus' fer bein' idiots. Never really did my piece for or against this town, so I figured I'd try to help for real fer once, and then whadda I get fer it? Ya fall into Bike's trap."
((I dunno how, but you did. A 1v1 showdown between people on opposite sides is beneficial for the town. There's a 50% chance to kill one innocent out of many and there's a 50% chance to kill one scum out of much fewer. Look who was pushing for the battle between myself and Bike. Look who backed out of it to keep pointing at his other, much less prominent accuser. Congrats, Bike, your plan apparently worked: avoid confrontations entirely and you're somehow guaranteed to win them with this crowd, that seems to be suspecting me for...what, exactly? Not ignoring his GMPM cop-out and further reactions since then, as you've all been doing except Kyle? (Hellsnake's after Bike for quite different, though also valid, reasons.) Oh hey, ninja'd by Peyton who wonders at why Bike chose Hellsnake as his target instead of me (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104694.html#msg104694). D'ya get it now?))
"I ain't afraid to die, just upset to die for nothin'. An' this is even worse'n dyin' for nothin': dyin' cuz I try t'look out for the town for once and all o'ya can't see it. An' ya wonder why I kept away from ya most o'the time. Pitiful. Well c'mon, make yer votes; I ain't gonna sit around here all day when we're just waitin' on two more blind people t'spell their own doom. Whaddaya holdin' out for, more information? Ain't gettin' any from me. I don't fucking have any. Make with the rope. With any luck ye'll have an innocent man hauntin' ya fer the rest o'yer days and there'll be yer information, 'less ya turn out t'be as irrationally sure I'm lyin' when I'm dead as yer sure I am now.".
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Votecount.
William Hellsnake [2]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Chad Hutchins, Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Moses Bike
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko) [2]: Jack Daniels, Chad Hutchins, Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus O'Malley (Excal) [1]: Bill Hellsnake, Pietro, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves
Pietro [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [1]: Peyton Hadley, Ethan Hayles
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [6]: Peyton Hadley, Moses Bike, Jack Daniels, Martin Andrews, Pietro, Nikolai Kolmogorov, Nathan Greaves
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Nathan Greaves
Moses Bike [3]: Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko), Bill Hellsnake
Chad Hutchins [ 0]: Nathan Greaves
Mr. Callahan is 2 votes away from a Marbury-style "conviction" (L-2).
There's 16 hours left in the day. With 15 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Mr. Callahan, 'tis possible it is as you say. But I find it mighty curious that you're so dead set against leaving a record early on, where there's little harm, and little else tae go on save for the weight o' these votes. Howe'er, I find it even more curious that ye find a personal difference in how one does things to speak so loudly.
Same with votes which are little more than a man speaking loudly, and calling out those who call him out. I cannae see how those can be any better than neutral, and seem a damn sight worse than that in most cases. This one bein' among 'em.
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...meh, I'm gonna forgo the roleplay for clarity's sake.
Defense: (I can handle it, Ty, don't worry)
- While I do agree that, under the circumstances, I should have voted/unvoted (Though there was no way to do so in character, mind), saying that in general I should do that makes no sense, as often I suspect many people.
- I mentioned who I suspected, multiple times (even gave a list), and so I had cast my line. (God forbid you might need to do a little reading)
- I do honestly take offense at my vote on Seamus being taken as OMGUS, and that people thought I was cheerleading. There was nothing to 'cheerlead', which was exactly why I was provoking discussion about it. From the two main people involved. And as soon as they'd both spoken, I voted, and dropped it.
- I voted Seamus for the reasons I gave. OMGUS didn't play into it at all. Why is it so hard to believe that I found him more suspicious than everyone else?
- Seamus, shut up for a second, and listen to yourself. Your case on me is built more on what I haven't done, and you're cramming suspicion down my throat because I haven't been around to respond to Moses. You know damn well I haven't been around to do that, anyway, which just makes it even more baffling.
- As for what you quoted... Well, I already covered the "triangle of suspicion" part (third vote, I'd personally say the jokevote phase was pretty clearly over, etc), and the second bit on Chad was pure flavor, meant mostly as a slow means to bring it into REAL srs bsns mafia, instead of "SECOND JOKE VOTE ON SOMEBODY, OMG" mafia. Then Moses and Ty got into a spat over the story, and I jumped on that (for information), and oh look, it ended up mattering.
- Final response to Seamus: People are suspicious of you because you were using things you didn't know to accuse me. 'sides, I never actually accused anybody of 'bloody murder.'
- Moses, I would like to point you to something about your posts. You tend to type as things come up/come to mind. (As do most people) So you'll excuse me if I note that the tiny bit about me and Seamus, not even mentioning there was a vote but instead implying I'd just done OMGUS, was written after your vote. Y'know, like an afterthought. Player meta, I know, but whatever. I'm clearly not the only person doing this, and given how very little player meta I even think I know...
Yeah, I'm gonna end here for the day. I need sleep. But hopefully that will appease people. (my cases still stand, mind, though I'll admit my case on Moses is arguably the weakest. However, he's also the only one of my strong suspects *coughSeamusMosescough* that is anywhere near anything, so I'll keep my vote where it is)
Ninja'd by votecount and Seamus. READ.
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Honestly, my case on you is on things which is looked like you did, but which you claim you didn't do. And, the biggest thing I have against you right now, to be blunt, is your big reveal of "Hey look! This guy who I've said I distrust, but the only reasoning I gave was really vague and was not actually a reason at all! But you assumed I'd give reasons for my suspicions and tried to find that, so now I'm going to claim this is what I meant!"
Obviously, the fact that only one other person has seen the same thing I have is a bit worrying. But, honestly? The fact that you seem to get so uppity over the fact that I don't take everything you say as gospel truth? Doesn't mean a thing to me. After all, one team is here to lie, mudsling, and mislead. And however upstanding a gent you might want to be, or think you are, doesn't change the fact you might be one of them.
Onto other events. I've reread the entire thing.
I think that good ol' Moses. Well... his story was a null tell to start, and it still is. Especially since it's coming across as Mr. Bike messing up his original lines on something that's completely neutral (As stated in game rules) and then Snowfire agreeing with it (as also stated in game rules) even while he clarified. Given all of this info is stuff allotted to folks before Town/Scum was decided, it is null.
As for Callahan. He is oddly stubborn about his attack. But I'm not sure if I see that as a scum trait or not. I do find his own single-mindedness to be worrying though. Especially the way he portrays the way the day's gone as a 1v1 between him and Moses, when it's actually him railing at Moses (even when he tries to get away, it's all centred around him) whereas Moses has been keeping his attention on a lot of different things. So that chracterization as a 1v1 really does feel wrong. Especially since there's been times when someone else might have come close to starting a train of their own.
I guess the main reason why I don't feel strongly towards Callahan is because outside of that one post, he hasn't been trying to start anything on someone besides Moses.
Pietro, on the other hand, I do dislike. Generally agree with Payton's reasoning, though the big thing I noticed about him that Payton didn't bring up is that his reasoning for both of his votes is the same. Namely, "I don't think your argument is good enough." And he doesn't really say anything else. And the thing about that is that, especially on Day 1, a lot of the arguments are going to be wrong. What catches scum are the details, and he doesn't mention any.
##Unvote; ##Vote: Pietro Giovanni
I should be around for a while before deadline hits, since that's starting to matter.
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Well guys I am back.
(If a family member is scheduled for minor surgery MAKE THEM TAKE THEIR MEDICATIONS ON TIME don't let them go "Oh I'll just skip this one and take two later" this ends poorly)
Gotta say I am kind of skimming some of the posts here cause they make my head hurt to read in full. I know we got a Marbury accent in here and that's good, but please try to stay so people can understand ya even with that. (and 'fore anyone yells at me for that, it's day 1, I'm not missing vital clues hidden in blobs of RP, come on.)
Ty Callahan is up on the block but I honestly don't get that bad a feelin from him. He's shootin off and has no idea what he is doin and it's temptin to lynch him for his attitude and what he's gonna do to discussion if he don't wise up... but I can't get a murderer read from it. I've been wrong on this kinda thing before but I don't think he's a bad guy. He's just tryin too hard.
Furthermore, and this applies to more cases than Ty as well, pretty much any argument involving "jokevote phase" or "timing" at this stage of the game is bunk. Actually that looks like it covers a lot of the attacks on Hellsnake and possibly Seamus. Quibblin on definitions and "you said you did X but I think you were doing Y which is like X but slightly semantically different" is hardly better. I hate algebra.
I don't see anything wrong with what Moses did either. Cause, well, I heard the screams too, two weeks ago and earlier today like he said. It's just flavor, I mean sure it's "important" in terms of who killed Pop but not really important in terms of finding out who killed him, if you get my drift. Mr. Handley flippin out on him like a linebacker for it is just kinda crazy and I still think it's the most possibly suspicious thing anyone's said.
(No, I don't have any other backing than gut and a bit of player meta - but there's nothing else doing and I dislike all the other high profile cases. So I'm staying on him I guess.)
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I guess the main reason why I don't feel strongly towards Callahan is because outside of that one post, he hasn't been trying to start anything on someone besides Moses.
Pietro, on the other hand, I do dislike. Generally agree with Payton's reasoning, though the big thing I noticed about him that Payton didn't bring up is that his reasoning for both of his votes is the same. Namely, "I don't think your argument is good enough." And he doesn't really say anything else.
"Hate to burst yer bubble when yer sayin' ya don't suspect me, Seamus, but...
"Giovanni, you especially ain't makin' any sense. So Seamus makes a good point 'bout what Bike says, and you accuse him o'murder just cuz ya think it wasn't a good enough point?"
I did poin'out somun' other'n Bike. Same thing yer sayin' now was pretty much th'first thing I said 'bout him."
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Actually now that I am lookin back I done had my clock set wrong (silly alt accounts) and deadline is comin up faster than I thought. Always sucks to get hit with a delay of game and lose five yards so... Mr. Callahan, if you've got any sorta secrets to bare, you might wanna consider doing so.
(Deadline is NA noonish tomorrow and NA folks are often kinda dead in the mornings so if you're going to roleclaim do it now)
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((Yeah, far as I can tell from looking back, the initial phase of random accusations does seem to last a while here. Way I used to play, one or at most two usually proved more than enough to get discussions going. Beyond that the rest start to look like mafia trying to slip in "discussion-starters" that're actually bandwagon-starters on innocents. That was my worry about you.))
So you done took the third outburst as suspicious fer that reckonin'. And o'course cuz I didn't move my vote just the way you liked it.
((Okay, maybe I can see an argument for my trying to get Peyton's trust, based on the flavor statement that I made after refuting his original accusation. Got nothing but my word to say that I don't actually care about his trust. Other than him, who you haven't mentioned anyway, there is no possible way you can make an argument that I've tried to get anyone to trust me; I've done anything but that. I don't give a shit about defense on day one, because any suspicions of me are completely unfounded anyway so there's nothing against which I need to argue. Except this very claim that you just made, that is, which is as utterly ridiculous as the rest, as I've just illustrated.))
I reckon a murder thinks in the long term. Now I ain't said you were doin' anything to win anyone over in the specifics, jus' that you's tryin to make yerself look good, build up credibility of that list a yers. Same thing ol' Peyton may well be doin'--I like that y'like me, son, but I don't like people makin' themselves look useful, makin' lists when there t'ain't enough of a reason fer it in the beginnin'. Don't get much of a sense of you from it, and your scoutin' of the battlefield matches my sense o' it.
Nah, back to you, Tyrone. At the risk o' gettin' a bit spiritual (meta) on ya, I may well be willin' to forgive yer misunderstandin', lest about my sorry ol' ass. I ferget yeh live out on the outskirts and may not know some of Maybury's traditions. 'n maybe I was a bit quick to jump on the first thing that raised my heckles. I still don't like the sense I get from ya too much, and here's why.
One, the theatrics. You done a good job of lookin' all fed up 'n shit, but a bottle that's empty o' whiskey does nothin' but get my hopes up and dash 'em when I find out. Gettin' all worked up about being in the crosshair's can come from frustration or from falsehood, an' as far's I'm concerned it don't help you none either way.
Second, I just don't get the way you think, specially's bout Moses. Don't think I's much for Handley's take on it either. The ol' man goes into too much detail, which gets'im in yer sights, and then ye just don't let go. And now we're all fallin' for Moses' trap? Based off a what? If'n you'll recall, Moses done addressed your concerns while checkin' around the fiel--Oh christ Alex just called for a roleclaim from you so I'm gonna drop character and speed this up, k? K.
OOC: My take on the Moses v Tyrone rail: Moses was a bit too free with information for your liking, so you (and Seamus) put the heat on him. Moses addressed your accusations, while examining other people. Etc, etc, etc, it comes out that somehow you thought Moses was quoting his PM to put a serious vote on you, and that's what sparked all this?
It's fairly obvious that your usage of what you claim was a true PM was intended to get me lynched (since you know I'm not scum), while mine was merely to survive, so whether we're both lying or both telling the truth, our motives still show our sides clearly.))
Jokevote phase. We talked about this. Hell, near as I can tell the first serious vote of the game came out of you. In any case, from a quick skimming (trying to go fast) this is the only reasoning you have for thinking we're falling for Mose's trap at this point.
At the risk of entangling myself with someone I haven't read up on too deeply yet (lolxanth also going for speed now) If you're willing to concede that your suspicion of ME was based off of being ignorant of how long the "joke vote" phase tends to last in DL games, then it strikes me as pretty clear that your suspicion of Moses falls into the same trap.
So, I don't really get what you're saying about all of us falling for Moses' trap or the like. Furthermore, when you get an idea like that in your head, you just won't let go of it--assuming you ARE town, it took quite a bit of convincing to even get you to do 5 minutes of browsing other mafia games to get this notion out of your head. This stubbornness may not be scummy but it's pretty bad town play.
Anyway, if you're going to make a claim, then go ahead. I think I've said all I can right now as it regards you.
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((And, by speed this up, I meant writing the post, so it got in before your next one. Not "Speed up getting you to roleclaim." In case that weren't clear.))
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(('kay, guys, I'm around. Just got 12 hours of sleep and am feeling like crap right now, so don't expect this to be amazingly coherent.
Also taking a leaf out of ChadAlex's book and dropping the majority of apostrophes. >.> Clutters up the posts a little too much.))
Now what in tarnation did I miss? Our journalist's been carryin on as normal while our actor's decided to play journalist? I ain't likin this one bit - you're born on the farm, raised on the farm, work on the farm and die on the farm. 'At's how it's always been round our way. Goin from bein an actor to a journalist jus means you miss out the important stuff - if we ain't got opinions on these reports, we ain't got nothin at all.
Once you're out of the jokevote phase, if you suspect someone, put a vote down. Hell, vote/unvote half the pair and then vote the other half, if you want to show you seriously want people looking at them.
((What a wonderful way to make sure none of your votes are ever taken seriously, voting for everyone you might suspect.
An', for once, I find myself agreein with the ol' stablemaster. Changin your target at every opportunity is a surefire way to look like you're helpin out around the farm while not doing anythin t'help.
Hadley, in your li'l report of everyone, you said I looked bad for keeping my vote where it was? I already said I ain't likin it when people show up and then go quiet, an' that's 'xactly what Dale did. Wouldn't be so bad if he didn't go quiet at exactly the point I voted for 'im. Lookin back at that now, darn it. Shoulda checked them time-note things, didn't realise there'd been a few hours in there.
((Can't think of a way to say this in character. Secondly, you put my vote down to me not liking him stopping the joke-vote? No, that was in-character. The part before that, about him taking the jokevote way too seriously was the actual reasoning for voting.))
Back to familiar territ'ry, though, Callahan's botherin me with his outcry of "Fine, kill me, see if I care!" I ain't never seen an innocent man say this, an' it's jus plain stupid to try now. Does nothin but make you look worse.
And on the note of tellin us what 'e's up to, I'm kinda thrown a li'l by this'n:
Whaddaya holdin' out for, more information? Ain't gettin' any from me. I don't fucking have any.
Eh? You implyin none of them roleclaims 'ere? If 'at's the case, I really ain't likin what I see.
As it goes, my suspicions lie on Ty and Peyton. Peyton's summary serves to add a whole lotta posts without actually tellin us much in the way o' what he thinks, although he sorta makes up for a little with an analysis post after the lot. (Them ones in the actual reporter posts don't really tell much of anythin.) Ty, on th'other hand... man, there's only so much o' that I can put down to bein new to this whole thing, and his flail-and-die alongside claimin today's been all him vs. Bike, I ain't likin.
##Unvote, Vote: Ty Callahan [L-1]
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After a bit, Kyle straightens out his suspenders and tips his hat. "Well, I suppose any salesman worth his salt knows when to give up on a sale."
##Unvote: Moses Bike
"Hopefully if more evidence comes to light I will be able to unload the merchandise, but there's no profit to be made hawking a product no one wants. I suppose it's time for me to take some notes in the ol' notebook." With that, he heads back to the truck he keeps most of his merchandise, taking out his ledger book to make some notes about the whole situation.
##Vote: Bill Hellsnake
##Unvote: Bill Hellsnake
##Vote: Samuel Hargraves
##Unvote: Samuel Hargraves
"Now I wouldn't be taking these to the bank and cashing them, no sir. This is more a bit of notetaking by me for later, as while neither has done anything outright scummy, there are a few odd things in their behavior I want to note further on down the line, should it become the hot new fad.
For Bill Hellsnake, I look at his recent defense of himself and how . I might even agree that the case against him might be some hot air, but if his defense were an antique, it would be French (as in, pardon it). Language like that is bad for business, no matter how frustrated you get.
In Sammy's case, he's been sitting on a vote which... hasn't led much of anywhere all day. It was an early case, to be sure, but one quickly dropped, and even in Sammy's most recent post he was selling quite the assortment of other things (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104667.html#msg104667), but he sticks with his old case because... well, no real reason is given. The good actor Peyton says it's a null tell, but I'm one to leave it on the ledgers, as it may be one tab worth calling in later."
His hand cramping from all that writing, Kyle finally leans back in the little stool he provided for himself in the back of the truck and looked out the window. It was getting late, and a cursory glance at his pocketwatch confirmed this. He couldn't very well be late at a critical time, regardless of the work to be done! Straightening his bow-tie, he set off back to the town square to watch to proceedings, finally speaking up when he gets a chance.
"I suppose it's time for me to weigh in on the big monopoly of the day, Tyrone Callahan. He did draw my attention when he tried to piggyback onto my first sale of the day, when he clearly didn't in any solid sense upon looking at the official court records. I would still say that what happened between Moses and I was a matter of trust, in which I did not trust the man. Tyrone is attributing Moses' behavior during the day in a much more sinister light than that even, and it doesn't quite pass inspection, maybe even voids the warranty. It's stubborn and argumentative through and through. While Chad might just be right in that it may not help town either way, there isn't much in the way that does that has support at this point. I've never been one to follow trends arbitrarily, but if business is to remain productive and profitable one must see how the winds are blowing though." (OOC: The glib nature of the last sentence is more flavor than anything)
NINJA'D! Changing how this ends since someone else put him at L-1.
"So if you need an outsider's perspective, I suppose I would be fine weighing in on it if the town needs to decide."
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((OOC: More clarification: There's also a difference between a healthy suspicion of joke votes and blowing one so out of proportion that we may have wasted an entire day because of the bickering generated by one.))
/me collapses onto a stool, grabbin' for a table to keep hisself upright. In the process, he knocks over his almost-empty whiskey jug, but it's so empty that fortunately none of it pours out.
He picks up the jug and waves it at Pietro. "Hooo-ey. Damn, what the hell ya'll put in this shit? 'Sallmost enough to make me forget you ain't said shit either. An' the last vote you made was well after the fire was to Callahan's feet. If I thought I might get enough out of you before sundown to do some reckonin'... all's I'll say is, start diggin' a trench."
"As I was pontificatin', I ain't so assured o' yer guilt now, to be honest. I think yer guilty, shit, but this all being chalked up to a series o' misunderstandins could make a lotta sense t'me, an' may be pretty possible. But I reckon that's a bit too convenient. So I ain't a hunner percent no more, is the point. If'n this had got dealt with sooner I reckon I'da gotten a closer look at HellSpade an' Moses, since they seem to be the other... w'as the French fer it? Soup doo-jew?"
"So Moses seems to be the one comin' under fire from the most people, Tyrone aside. An' aside from the two votin' for him fer bein' too willin' to provide onna 'em ah-li-byes, we got Hellsnek and Seamus. As fer what he's been sayin'... t's not a lot. Calls on people to vote, and arguin' with Callahan and Hellsnake. Ain't scoutin' as well as I had thought--buncha quiet people slippin' under the radar. T'ain't tellin', I just reckon I need to give the ol' feller less credit than I tend t'. Most worryin' thing I see here is accusin' Helsinki of not havin' a vote when he did, an' frankly I don't know what t'make o' it.
"Hellspade, nah. Frankly I find not having a vote down at all more sespicius n' havin' a vote of passion, but that don't tell me much. Specially since Moses callin' him out on not havin' one after he had made like a good American chafes me all the more. But the defense of 'I admit yer right but there t'wern't a way to do it in character' don't hold much neither. Mostly stirrin' up shit wit' Moses and Seamu--"
"HEY, SEAMUS. Buy me a drink?" The drunkard's pontificating kinda trails off since it won't matter too much til the morrow.
((OOC: Ugh where did the last 3 hours go? I need sleep, and while ShameyExcal's the next player's posts I have to go through to get a read on the day I can't help but think that can be put off for right now. Might help me shed some light on my opinion of David Hellspade, though.
I'll be at work when the deadline hits, but I'll check back tomorrow to see if there's anything incriminating/revealing enough to get me to hop on one of the Hellsnake/Moses bandwagons before I do.))
Ninja'd.
Okay we're at hammertime people. We still got... 10? some hours though and I'd like to see if Tyrone has any shocking revelation that will get the zeitgeist to shift before the end of the day. But, y'know. Up to you folks.
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Callahan's botherin me with his outcry of "Fine, kill me, see if I care!" I ain't never seen an innocent man say this
I guess you ain't never played much Mafia football before then cause I seen this happen like once every game or two when a rookie gets trained on! >_> Not really a point in his defense but I don't think it's a point against him either.
Buuut it looks like he ain't around to claim anything so... yeah. Not much else to be sayin. Guess I've gotta get myself to bed on time now. Dunno if I'll be around for deadline but will try. I ain't a huge fan of takin down Mr. Callahan but I ain't got anything that's gonna dissuade it either and I guess he's a better suspect than the other big trains.
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Jus' a quick wor' 'ere I get out tos t' 'orses; I hav'nae t' time f'r a real closelike look a' wha' folks'a bin sayin', 'spec'ly since another'n pops up every time I tries t'open m' mouth, bit I cin make a few tiny... corrections t' those 'as 'as mayhap misun'erst'd me.
Greaves tells us Callahan 'ain' in no mort'l peril. Now tha' be truth, but only on account of my own name's not'n 'is lis'. Dear ol' Callahan 'isself shows we 'ave some folks'ere 'as don' quite unnerstan' our peculiar Marbury ways. Now I's got's t' admit, t'sun's lower in 't sky'n I rem'mb'r'd, but I stills thinks 'ere shoul' b' mor'n one name 'twixt him'n almighty f'ra few hours yet, an I'll be back 'ere sundown t' look again, don' ye fret.
((Handley: I though I was clear enough, so I'd better go OOC: when I said O'Malley hadn't got any better, he hadn't posted at all since my last (he has now), and my original reason for voting him (that his attack on Hellsnake was wrong) stood))
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((Don't have any time for flavor right now, or even much content, literally running out the door in about 30 seconds. Hopefully will in an hour. Just reiterating the truth of what I said earlier: I don't have any real information. My role just makes me out to be the town bulletproof; can't prove that I'm not a mafia bulletproof (vig immune) with the information given in my PM. Sounds like other PMs were much more informative; maybe that's part of why I've been so distrustful of Moses' usage of his PM -- gotta run
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"And Callahan gives up? And tells us all that we're being fooled by an old man telling a story that's pretty irrelevant compared to the murder that's just happened here? Well, I think I'm satisfied with keeping my vote where it is."
Greaves tells us Callahan 'ain' in no mort'l peril. Now tha' be truth, but only on account of my own name's not'n 'is lis'.
"But you said earlier that you thought the case on Callahan was 'not enough to say he was a murderer' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104667.html#msg104667). Though admittedly you said it with a much heavier accent, but that's besides the point. The point is, why have you changed from that point of view to 'the only reason Callahan isn't in danger is because I haven't voted him'?"
((Besides that, I doubt anyone is going to pull out an early hammer.))
((Dim-Sham'd by a last minute BP claim from Callahan. Not convinced, not sure what he means by 'no information' either. The whole 'I can't prove I'm not scum BP because of my lack of info' is trying too hard to press the point, though - when did Bike claim he could prove himself Town with his info? Vote stands.))
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Bulletproof huh? Like wearing a vest, I see...well if yer tellin' the truth, then that aint gonna help us out 'cos they'll just shoot the rest of us instead. And if you're a liar, then you're a murderer. Either way, you aint much use to us right now 'cos that just puts the rest of us in danger. I'm happy with leavin' my vote where it is.
I'm a simple man of few words Seamus, 'tis a shame you do not like me. I don't like to go on and on like some of these other folks with their tall stories, but it would seem you've taken offence to my verbal efficiency. What would you like me to talk about? I've talked about where my vote is an' why, but if that aint enough for you then tell me how you'd like me to help you. That's my job in this town, getting people what they want.
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One, the theatrics. You done a good job of lookin' all fed up 'n shit, but a bottle that's empty o' whiskey does nothin' but get my hopes up and dash 'em when I find out. Gettin' all worked up about being in the crosshair's can come from frustration or from falsehood, an' as far's I'm concerned it don't help you none either way.
"Ya'll fin' out enough t'dash yer hopes in a bit, don't ya worry." ((The flavor text was largely just to drop some hints as to the nature of my being bulletproof, cuz I felt like it.))
Second, I just don't get the way you think, specially's bout Moses. Don't think I's much for Handley's take on it either. The ol' man goes into too much detail, which gets'im in yer sights, and then ye just don't let go. And now we're all fallin' for Moses' trap? Based off a what? If'n you'll recall, Moses done addressed your concerns while checkin' around the fiel--
"Oh? Now tha's news. All's I've seen's dodgin', an' accusin' Bill to cover't up."
At the risk of entangling myself with someone I haven't read up on too deeply yet (lolxanth also going for speed now) If you're willing to concede that your suspicion of ME was based off of being ignorant of how long the "joke vote" phase tends to last in DL games, then it strikes me as pretty clear that your suspicion of Moses falls into the same trap.
((The reasons for my minor suspicion of you and my significant suspicion of him are very different, not even accounting for the fact that his accusation came a page later.))
Furthermore, when you get an idea like that in your head, you just won't let go of it--assuming you ARE town, it took quite a bit of convincing to even get you to do 5 minutes of browsing other mafia games to get this notion out of your head. This stubbornness may not be scummy but it's pretty bad town play.
((I do agree I should've looked them up earlier; I just found it unlikely enough that more than one or two random accusations would be necessary to start serious discussion, in any game, that I didn't think it'd be different here. Still doesn't mean I think Bike's vote was a joke vote nor that I'll forgive the appeal to secret canon, just that it's more plausible his vote was a joke vote.))
"[Callahan] did draw my attention when he tried to piggyback onto my first sale of the day, when he clearly didn't in any solid sense upon looking at the official court records. I would still say that what happened between Moses and I was a matter of trust, in which I did not trust the man. Tyrone is attributing Moses' behavior during the day in a much more sinister light than that even, and it doesn't quite pass inspection, maybe even voids the warranty. It's stubborn and argumentative through and through. While Chad might just be right in that it may not help town either way, there isn't much in the way that does that has support at this point.
((I noticed the core of your argument well before you did, as I've already said; I was just in less of a position to be able to argue it since it might've seemed hypocritical coming from me (after what seemed like an asspull earlier), so I was hoping someone else would pick up on it and continue from there. And you did. Wasn't after-the-fact piggybacking, more like premeditated.))
Bulletproof huh? Like wearing a vest, I see...well if yer tellin' the truth, then that aint gonna help us out 'cos they'll just shoot the rest of us instead. And if you're a liar, then you're a murderer. Either way, you aint much use to us right now 'cos that just puts the rest of us in danger. I'm happy with leavin' my vote where it is.
((Yeah, being bulletproof is an advantage for the town when scum _doesn't_ know about it and wastes a night trying to kill the man. Now that I've announced it, it's no help.))
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Ain' bin no changin', mist'r Greaves. If I'd' voted for Callahan back 'en[1], 'e'd'v been in more peril than' I's comf't'ble with. (Tha's all I were meanin' t'say, an' I 'prec'ate I was'nae 's conc'se as I'd likes t' bees. I fear ye may've took m' fer sayin' there was too many votes already). So's when you's says 'e's not'n mort'l peril, 'e would've bin 'ad I put my own vote on 'is lis'.
[1]I were considerin' votin' Ty, an' still am: be no's mistakin': t' case wasnae an' ain' 'nuff 't'say 'e's surely a murd'rer more'n a fool, but mayhap 't's 't bes' we's got. I'd cert'n'ly see 'im 'ang afore ol' Bike, an' truth be tol' tha's lookin' like t' choice we 'as, t'is late in 't day. I coul' say more when't comes t' O'Malley, but I don' see i' doin' much good, an' 'tis work t'be done.
No, ret'inkin' tat, folks wan' t'know what I's after'im fer, whether they's followin' me 'r no.
((OOC since the whole point here is clarity: as I said back in my second post, Hellsnake made to my eyes the first real insight of the day. So "that's a pretty lot o' words fer precious little gain." seemed rather unfair. I'm talking here about what Hellsnake said about Ty, rather than what he said about Chad, so that he gave little reason for going after Chad is beside the point. O'Malley's second post (http://"http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104514.html#msg104514"), I didn't see a lot of sense in; "I understand that ye think yer a fine upstanding member of the establishment fer deigning to take note that these two gents are not on the best of terms." is not what I was getting at all, I didn't see the focus on Ty/Bike to the exclusion of all else (surely the fact that we're talking about what Hellsnake's said about Chad is proof that wasn't happening), and the end, "And tae make matters worse, ye also demand they do so with details that be more the province of the good constable, with the specifics of time and place.", seems to just be attacking for flavour. Which to me was all the "meaningless" phrase O'Malley's third post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104689.html#msg104689) attacks is, and for a post as early in the game as Hellsnake's quoted post, there's nothing wrong with a little meaningless flavour.))
Hadley, unh'ppy as I'd bes t' b' voted on, I likes wha' you's don' thar e'en les'. Looks like you's bes hedgin' like on'f 'em fancy New Yorkee trad'rs, wait'n t'see whether you wants t'be ser'us orn't. Shoul' we be's seein' tha' 'as a good ol' 'merc'n vote 'ginst me an' Snakey, or no?
((And I've already spent far longer than I should; I think/hope that's everything that needed saying. Will be around briefly before deadline, and willing to hammer given the unlikeliness of an O'Malley train at this stage. Two ninjas unread))
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So's when you's says 'e's not'n mort'l peril, 'e would've bin 'ad I put my own vote on 'is lis'.
"In which case I'd have been reluctant to put Callahan at the brink of death so early anyway, so what's the point of this statement beyond trying to claim some ownership on the Callahan case? Sorry if I'm just misreading you, I'm not used to all these weird dialects you Marbury folk seem to have."
((If I'm needing to sit down for a few minutes to decode what Hargreaves is actually saying, am I doing it wrong?))
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Right, right guys. Here'n I am. No, I wasn't dropping off to sleep there, just closin' my eyes in concentration.
Maybe it's the generation gap, but I'm thinkin' I'm never gonna understood anything Tyrone goes on about. Latest noodles bein' this thing about me not actually voting for his craziness. Well surprise, son, everyone and their duck knows I spearheaded the case on you even without being direct on it. If'n you think back a bit you'd even see that me voting for you would have been the easy way out for me - it'd've put me further from the gallows rather'n pushin' this less popular case on the Hellsquid. But then I guess from your point of view it was all part of my plan that you'd go even more crazy like and draw more of the ole voting fingers your way.
Speakin' of not understanding folk, Samuel here's the only one I'm having a hard time with. Keep on catching myself just drifting over his posts without decoding them.
And let's not be forgetting the Hellbadger, as sure as stone as Tyrone's death may be.
...which I will do momentarily. Hullo there Mr. Greaves, with your timing on Samuel I feel I should register my agreement now.
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Oh, and we're not so close to sundown as I thought we were, so I don't need to be rushin' myself. I blame this new-fangled daylight savings malarckey.
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Sun's gettin' mighty low in the sky. Nuthin' more useful's gettin' said today, I reckon. I'd not like to make th' day a total waste, so shit, may'swell hammer and be done with it.
((OOC: Honestly, I don't have a problem readin'---gah---reading anybody other than Hargreaves, myself. This may be because I don't have to decipher my own Marbury Codetalk.))
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((I _did_ say to get on with the lynching, yes. Y'all might as well take the rest of IRL-today to think over the real suspects.))
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Hellferret, you still don't seem to understand why I'm flagging you down, so let me give you a little lecture in the theory round these parts.
Yapping on about who you don't like without troubling yourself to make a choice may sound cautious or summin, but it be a mighty fine ploy for the guilty. Toss out some lines, hang back and see what sticks before following that all clean like, you see? Especially when you were gesturin' over not bein' able to pick between the two opposites who were a fine bet for emerging trains. It's like jumpin' from one wagon to another without the shame of actually jumpin', if'n you see there. 'N if'n you don't like the bites on any of those lines, you still haven't left as much of a trail to follow when you look for finer waters. Lyin' in wait like that and yappin' on right from the get go is what got me all worried like in the first place. I'm sure the innocent can bumble their way into this position by accident, but it's a guilty twitch nonetheless, and better'n most to vote for so early on.
Worse still when you throw out another line and back up yer 'wait and see' position by waiting and seeing some more. Even worse that you didn't even say why you were suspicious of young Chad when you cast that line, just a little bit earlier on cloaked in action (role play). It was at that point that you overstepped the grace I'd given you fer bein' new in town 'n all, which is why I moved my voting finger at that point in all my talkin'.
Now, you complain that you have reason to have screwed up hearin' me, but you say I should be listenin' to you more closely? Boy, you can't be having your fish both ways.
Why is this old man cynical about you votin' for Seamus when he was pointing at you most strongly at the time? Well boy, want to look at the situation now? I point at you more strongly and suddenly yer pointin' my way instead? Funny that. Remind me why yer pointin' at me in the first place? Reeling in that line you left at the start of the day, mayhaps? Because otherwise you've got that 'gotcha' argument that you done gone and stuffed up, and instead of apologisin' for a simple mistake and movin' on with life, you blame it on me that you couldn't hear me right, and keep on voting me for... what? For talking about things in chronological order? Callin' it weak is the understatement of the week, to be true.
Also, let's go back to those lines you tossed out early. One of them was Tyrone, remember? Funny how he's silently slipped out of reach for no reason you've mentioned. See, this is precisely another reason why tossing out all these lines and seeing what bites is a guilty gambit - it lets someone discard unwanted lines just as easily. Easiest guilty ploy here would be if Tyrone here is crazy but not guilty, in which case you could neatly wash your hands of any doin' with his lynching. Yeah, harder to see the two of you chanting together, else I'd have at least expected you to jump on the wagon before now.
(to cover one potential response before it hits, there was one mention of Tyrone between him being the top of Hellanemone's list and suddenly disappearing by his latest speech, and that was here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104519.html#msg104519). But if that cloth cuts Tyrone clear from him then so it does for me. Not to mention no reaction on Tyrone's insanity at all)
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No one else with anything to say?
I sure ain't opposed to bein' the one bringing down the hammer just before sunset hits.
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I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. Unfortunately, forum ate my Hellsnake post. And I have, literally, no time.
I'm just gonna go through my points as quick as possible.
1. There were much better moves I could've VERY easily made than completely ignoring the ruckus that was going on at the time. Namely, the 'second vote on someone' thing.
2. I'm feeling majourly 'gotcha'd here, as the sensible thing to do would've been to tell me, at the time, that there was something to gain from using votes even while suspicious of more than one person. I even said at one point I thought there was nothing to gain.
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My arm hurts from all this pointing, but here it goes.
##Unvote: Hellbee
##Vote: Tyrone Callahan
Oh, Helllion. Misuse of 'gotcha' for sure (actually, I think I've misused it as well), but hey. Can't check right now with the day ending right now, but pretty sure I did tell you at the time and thereafter that you really should have been voting and doing what you were doing was guilty twitches. You just weren't picking up on it, hence the full explanation.
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And that would be Hammer. Stop talking, please~
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Sheriff Hutchinson cleared his throat. "Well then. If we can have a show of hands...."
William Hellsnake [ 0]: Ethan Hayles, Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Chad Hutchins, Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko) [2]: Jack Daniels, Chad Hutchins, Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus O'Malley (Excal) [1]: Bill Hellsnake, Pietro, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves
Pietro [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Seamus O'Malley (Excal)
Ronald Dale (Bardiche) [ 0]: Peyton Hadley, Ethan Hayles
Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker) [8]: Peyton Hadley, Moses Bike, Jack Daniels, Martin Andrews, Pietro, Nikolai Kolmogorov, Nathan Greaves, Ethan Hayles, Moses Bike
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Nathan Greaves
Moses Bike [2]: Ty Callahan (Eternal Lurker), Seamus O'Malley (Excal), Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko), Bill Hellsnake
Chad Hutchins [ 0]: Nathan Greaves
Samuel Hargreaves [ 0]: Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko)
No vote placed: Kyle Handley (Hunter Sopko)
---
"Well, the lodge of the Order of Unseen Wisdom is some darn rugged territory, but lordy knows it's not uncrossable. Horses are actually a pretty good way to get there," noted farmer Hayles.
"And we never see you around at night, anyway! What have you been up to?" Jeb Cress, proprietor of Rosie's, knew the night habits of the townfolk pretty well.
"Always struttin' by himself, never joining any of our good organizations. Something positively anti-social about that." The widow Avil was a firm believer in the power of civic organizations.
"You were just jealous of Mr. Hutchins, weren't you!" shouted the shopkeeper Andrews.
"And nothing out of his mouth has made a damn lick of sense. Christ." Jack Daniels could be a persuasive force when the conditions were right, it seemed.
"You've got it all wrong! This is the problem with humankind," the stablemaster growled. "Shoulda stayed in the mountains last night, I see." He paused, seeming to consider his options. "I'll go quietly. I could make you pay, but I think you're all idiots, not evil. Let's just get this over with." The journalist, Nathan Greaves, stood in the back, taking notes on this town's unusually speedy justice system furiously.
Sherrif Hutchison stood up. "Someone fetch Dr. Gottlieb from the Sanitarium, and Reverend Jones from Paugus Mill. Can't have an execution without a priest & a doctor. It's a shame you don't work with humans, Dr. Hargreaves. I bet your fee would be less than that quack Gottlieb." As people began to leave the room, Callahan's head dipped, eyes softly closed as he clutched his leather belt and began mumbling unintelligibly.
---
"Any last words? Last requests?" Rev. Jones spoke in his usual monotone.
His muttered... curse? prayer? finally ceasing, Callahan stood with the rope around his neck. "Yah. Cremate my body. Clothes 'n' possessions, 'specially. Family tradition 'n' all that."
And there was the usual thud as the latch released, and a sickening crack as Tyrone's neck was broken.
---
"Ja, ja, ist tot. He's dead, dead, dead! No problems sir, no problems at all. I'll be collecting my fee now." Dr. Gottlieb stepped back from the body.
"Well. Guess there ain't no reason to deny his request for a cremation." Sheriff Hutchins put his hands at his hips. "I'm a practical man. No need to drag this body all around. Let's just move it a bit over and burn it on the spot."
Young deputy Webster moved to pick up the body, then pulled back suddenly, with a puzzled look on his face. He moved closer in to Tyrone's body again, picking up the clothes and taking a closer look at them... before shrieking hideously. "No, we'll burn the body here! NOW! Give me that!" Webster took the match pack, lit the entire set on fire, then tossed it onto the body, before scrambling to find more accelerants to toss on the body.
"What... what?! What got into that boy! He might damage the gallows!" Hutchison had a confused look on his face, before quickly trying to pull the body at least somewhat to the side himself. As it happened, any kindling or gasoline didn't seem to be needed... the body caught fire quite impressively, burning with a strange glow. And kept burning. For far longer than it should have taken, with a strange flickering light.
Webster just sat to the side, shaking his head. "That belt... that belt wasn't no leather. No sir. Leather ain't warm to the touch... it ain't alive."
"Pietro, I need some of your health tonic. Now."
Tyrone Callahan, Town Bulletproof Shadow, has been lynched! (Immune to normal nightkills. Immune to trackers and watchers; trackers and watchers who attempt are informed subject is immune to them.)
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I have received a request for an all-flavor night post. So that there isn't alarm in the thread when it happens, this is approved. The general prohibition remains, though; if you'd like to join in clear it with me first.
It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours, but due to my work schedule, more like ~28 hours to get your night actions in.
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Callahan Goes Up In Smoke
A Special Guest Article By Nathan Greaves
This morning's investigation into the murder of Jon Hutchins has taken a new turn for the disturbing, as the citizens of Marbury made their first public accusation.
Tyrone Callahan, the town's stablemaster, was declared the prime suspect in the crime only hours after Hutchins' body was found in the Order of Unseen Wisdom's lodge this morning. After initially arguing his innocence, Callahan submitted himself to the authorities and accepted his sentencing.
His lynching was quick and clean, overseen by Sheriff Hutchins and Paugus Mill's Reverend Jones. As per the deceased's request, the body was cremated in full after the hanging, but it was here that Callahan left Marbury with his final mystery - when the body was to be taken down from the gallows, Deputy Sheriff Webster reported that even after death the dead man's clothes felt warm enough to be alive in themselves. In panic, Webster immediately lit the body on fire, and Callahan's corpse reacted with a flame far more intense than a human should physically be able to produce.
The reasons for this incredible immolation are as yet unknown, though bystanders report hearing ominous murmurs from Callahan before his execution. His last declaration of his accusations being 'the problem with humankind' has led some to suggest that Callahan wasn't even human at all. Of course, the Sheriff has vehemently denied these claims and promised that the identity of Hutchins' killer will come to light within the coming days, but the rumours continue to spread across the men and women of Marbury. Only time will tell as to whether these rumours hold any weight...
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Leopold Brewster, the richest man in town, stood outside the Callahan stables, his frown making plain his current mood.
"No, no, no. Perhaps Mr. Callahan wanted to burn his possessions. But "his" possessions are not his. Out of good Christian mercy, I loaned Mr. Callahan money to keep this stables operation going, and he died in debt to me. I'll be collecting full ownership of... well, everything, to pay off his debts. I doubt that even contacting his family would be feasible... they apparently live far up in the mountains near Canada."
Sheriff Hutchison shrugged. "If he were a true Marbury native I'd never let you get away with this. But you've a point. And it sounds like the documents are in order. I guess these stables are yours."
Brewster turned to Seamus, who was also standing nearby. "Mr. O'Malley. I understand you're looking for some jobs. I honestly don't know how much longer these stables will even be open, as I will probably be closing out the business and selling the horses. Still, I need somebody to man the shop until then; might as well get some value from these nags. Is that acceptable to you?"
Seamus nodded. "I've no plans to stay here for long anyway. Pay me, and I'll be happy to keep these stables in good order for ya. It'd be a shame for the rooms Callahan used to go to waste; mind if I sleep there as well, and avoid paying Rosie's for more nights?" Brewster only nodded in disgust before turning and heading back to his car.
--
Back at Rosie's Country Inn, the suspects gathered to celebrate the conviction of the murderer Callahan. Still, the thought that maybe that wasn't all there was to it kept nagging them.
Dr. Gottlieb stayed in town, as well. Chatting with Jeb Cress, proprietor, he commented that "seems we had a patient who never arrived at the Sanitarium. Idioten. He should have showed up last week. I doubt a man would stop by here, but they call them mad for a reason. This ring any bells to you?" Gottlieb shoved a piece of paper Cress's way.
Cress looked at the paper, and furrowed his brow. "Nah, don't recall anyone like this. I wouldn't worry about, Doc."
Meanwhile, Jack Daniels cleared any doubts to his sobriety raised earlier in the day by ingesting Pietro's famed health tonic liberally. Hellsnake, who also had a few, suddenly grabbed Farmer Hayles roughly. "Hey, you know where Aorako is? I gotta find it." Ethan eased backward, and shrugged. "I think you 'ad a few too many. Or per'aps not enough."
Eventually, much later, the travelers went upstairs to their rooms, and the townsmen returned to their homes.
--
Upon rising the next morning, Sheriff Hutchison decided to gather the whole crew up again. "Got a few unanswered questions about the Hutchins matter. Callahan coulda had accomplices. Just got a bad feeling here." Luckily, it seemed that all the suspects returned to the meeting in good health.
Nothing happened last night! (Nothing obvious, at least.)
It is now Day 2. It ends in 72 hours, at 7:00 PM EST April 24th. With 14 investigators, it still takes 8 to lynch.
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3. Don't like getting into the middle of things I don't want/have to. Anyone who's played with me before should know I don't like repeating others, and that this behaviour is absolutely nothing new. But I'm leaning townTy rather than scumTy because his (majour) problems were easily solved once he read other topics. Why would his partners not tell him? Plenty of time for it. Either for bussing purposes, or because he has a bad team behind him. WIFOM terriritory I know.
4. I had been 'called out for OMGUS' before I voted you.
5. Yeah, talking in chronological order is why I've got an issue with you.
All of this is just making me more suspicious of you, actually, Moses. Especially since you yourself admitted to spearheading the Ty case. Barring something revolutionary, tomorrow I'm gonna be voting for either Moses or Seamus, most likely Moses.
Ok, wasn't done, here's the rest of what I had to say. Though, uhh... yeah. Very poorly timed, it would seem. Anyway, yeah. Let's start Day 2 off with some oomph.
##Vote: Moses Bike
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If ye be getting so many calls o' OMGUS, then ye might want to be thinkin' as to why ye attract so many, 'stead o just gettin' angry at them for seein' what they see.
As fer what ye said, Mr. Giovanni, ye're words are a weight upon my mind they are. For while you did finally say something, t'was simply noting that a Bulletproof that's known to God and all about is the same as a man who nae has such a power, and that ye'd be happy tae wring his neck regardless of if he did the deed or not. Indeed, ye talked more about how he'd be nae help to us lookin' fer the killers than ye e'er did about why ye thought he was a killer 'imself.
As for what I want o' ye. I'd like ye to actually help look fer the murderers, rather than trying t' look like ye are, and saying arse all. Especially when yer contributions so far are not liking the arguments behind 'alf a joke vote, and a man we now know wasn't the killer.
##Vote: Pietro Giovanni
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This has come up just as I was about to head to bed, so role play and detail can wait until tomorrow.
Regarding the night phase, I am aware of having being targeted by one player. I am unaware of any effects of this action, but believe it was probably related to dark secrets. Mentioning immediately should the action be claimed later. Also very vaguely paranoid from the flavour that it might be a delayed kill (lots of talk about depression), but no reason outside pure flavour hints to believe it is.
Also, that paranoia aside, to my knowledge no attempt was made on my life last night, unsurprisingly.
5. Yeah, talking in chronological order is why I've got an issue with you.
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/GWBeatrice/awesome.png)
##Vote: William Hellsnake
For the previously mentioned reasons rather than this. But this is all just great. It's part of a running theme of not actually having a case on me.
Back in character again come morning. Apologies for being so bad at doing the whole role play thing so far, especially when everyone else has been keeping it up.
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3. Don't like getting into the middle of things I don't want/have to. Anyone who's played with me before should know I don't like repeating others, and that this behaviour is absolutely nothing new. But I'm leaning townTy rather than scumTy because his (majour) problems were easily solved once he read other topics. Why would his partners not tell him? Plenty of time for it. Either for bussing purposes, or because he has a bad team behind him. WIFOM terriritory I know.
"Well well, now here's an oldie that I thought I'd never see on the market again. You see, William, the reason this particular wine was taken off the market was that there's absolutely no way to tell whether or not you're acting the way you are to play on peoples' expectations, or if you are really innocent, so you can't really call it a legitimate defense when you're just saying 'Trust me, I've done this before.' You're also making some dangerous assumptions about scumplay which aren't too helpful either.
That aside... clear something up for the good audience... what exactly do you mean by "talking in chronological order"? It's not... quite clicking to me, even going back over your posts.
Combined with your standoffish behavior yesterday, I'm fine with..."
##Vote: William Hellsnake
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::Peyton rises late. Looking around at the assembly, he raises an appraising eyebrow. With a grin, he wends his way into the crowd.::
"Good to see we're all still here this morning, gentlemen. I'd like to believe we're out of the woods - speaking metaphorically, you understand. But -"
::His grin fades.::
"- I ain't in the habit of getting what I want."
::He turns to Hellsnake.::
"What's this nonsense about Mr. Bike talking in right order? How'd you like him to express himself, at right angles? Of all the damned fool reasons to look at a man strange, I can't think of one stranger than that. I suggest you explain yourself, Mr. Hellsnake."
((Seriously, WTF does that even mean, Mage? You need to clarify.))
((I had problems with your play yesterday and am still suspicious for the same reasons as before, and you've continued to pile on to those - you don't have a newbie excuse for bad play, yet you continually get called out on it? Then CHANGE HOW YOU PLAY. And in case you want to protest that you are playing the way you consider good, in a game like Mafia, what the meta considers bad play flat out IS, because Mafia is based on testing trust and deception and reasoning through people's arguments. If people think you're playing badly then you ARE, because you're either not winning their legitimate trust as Town or lulling them into trusting you as Scum.))
"Understand, friend, I ain't saying you had a thing to do with the murder. Not without more to go on, at least."
::Peyton turns to Pietro. He leans over the bar.::
"Don't suppose I could trouble you for a bottle of your most healthful, Mr. Giovanni? I'm parched."
::He looks it, too, dark circles under his eyes and his skin drier than the climate seems to dictate. While he waits for the Sicilian to deliver his libations, the former actor idly picks at his cracked skin, frowning to himself.::
::Peyton takes the bottle from Pietro - then grabs his wrist.::
"Could I trouble you for something else, while we're at it? On account of I couldn't seem to for much of anything, yesterday, except for regurgitating the same things other folks already said and sitting back while Callahan hung."
::Peyton's eyes are hard as he rises to confront the Sicilian. His free hand slips under his coat, revealing a Colt Single Action Army tucked into a shoulder holster.::
"Not to be dramatic, but I don't imagine you'd go as quietly as the last man hung here, if it should come to that. And I think just maybe it should, on account of the only thing you said except for blowing wind was to cheer us on to hanging a man for not being useful! Now, why don't you step out from behind that bar where these good folks and I can see where you keep your hands... off that shotgun, for one."
((In short, my suspicions from yesterday hold for Pietro, and I agree with Seamus that continuing to support the Callahan lynch - mislynch as it turns out - because Callahan's role was no longer useful is just... nasty. Also WRONG. Vanilla Town is a plenty powerful role, but leaving that aside, Bulletproof even has some theoretical lategame use, in the right combination of roles it can shut down the Scum for a night action or two.))
((If you had moved your vote to Callahan because of this I'd be pushing for your lynch right now. But since it just stayed there, it's more of a "that's BS" than a "I'd vote for you even if I didn't think you were Scum before."))
((But you know what? I did.))
((What's more, I don't believe the ENTIRE Callahan train was Town vs. Town, with no Scum aboard for the ride. You're definitely the person on that train I thought looked worst to begin with, and unless LAL comes into play with some of the even less active, but less classic Scumlurking, people aboard, I'm definitely inclined to:))
##VOTE Pietro Giovanni
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Greaves:
what's the point of this statement beyond trying to claim some ownership on the Callahan case?
((I was explaining my worry about the possibility of a quickhammer in this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104667.html#msg104667); I read this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104684.html#msg104684) as saying "why are you worrying about this, he's at L-2 which is perfectly safe"; yes, but L-1 is not safe enough, and I didn't want to put him there that early (admittedly it wasn't actually as early as I thought).
There've been enough complaints about the accent that I'll stop it (that and it always took bloody ages). I'll try and keep up the roleplay, just in plain English.))
I woke up this morning thinking I should take another look at who was voting old Moses. Even though it turns out Callahan wasn't our killer, there was little grounds for the case against him (as Hadley said back here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104694.html#msg104694)), and his being (an admittedly distant) second on our list of bad guys smells off. But now I get my reading glasses on I see there were only ever four folks who put names to him, and one of them was the dead guy. Seems odd that he was ahead of Hellsnake despite there being six people listing him, but on reading three of those were joke/alex.
(Ok, guess I can't keep up the roleplay)
Now, Handley: focused on Bike all along, which I don't see as necessarily scum. But that peculiar vote-shuffle at the end has raised my hackles a little; it distorts the record of what he actually did, which is to push Bike all day and then hop onto the big train (which I don't think he'd even mentioned up to that point) at the last minute - and if he's trying to hide it then that is scummy.
O'Malley I've already spoke my piece about, and now that I look the vote for Bike is very early and flagging up something that actually was worth poking. (At least, Bike himself seemed to think it merited the response that touched off the rest of it).
Which brings us to Hellsnake. Honestly, I think much of the attacks against him have been unfair (see what I've said earlier about O'Malley's case on him). The one that is true is that he was naming two suspects and not voting either; this is undeniably bad (and we have not been inconsistent about this, Mage), but not terrible when he's made his suspicions clear, and to tell the truth I can sympathise with his reaction to Bike, because that was a long post and on my first look I too read it as "Hellsnake isn't voting". In terms of the record I think Handley's vote-unvote is worse (though I can't be sure there's not a hint of OMGUS creeping in there).
That said, the attitude really isn't helping. "talking in chronological order is why I've got an issue with you" certainly needs some major explanation.
I was expecting to still be on O'Malley, but he looks a tiny smidgen better than yesterday for seeing that his early vote on Bike was for a reason and actually accomplished something, not that I attach a lot of meaning that early on. Handley looks worse than ever in the cold light of day. Hellsnake has been unhelpful but I'm not yet convinced scummy, and I think merits being given a little longer to either pull himself together or not. Handley > O'Malley > Snake in terms of scumminess; no-one else has really tripped my radar yet, though I'll do a sweep this evening to look for those flying under it.
##Vote: Kyle Handley . Hadley ninja unread
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Okay, so rested and reread, I need yet another out of character post.
Though I have received no explicit confirmation of such, I strongly believe myself to have been slow killed. The flavour was far more specific than I previously thought, in particular about basically making sure my affairs are in order before the inevitable darkness arrives. The wording might just mean that my dark secret is going to be resolved, but I'm not sure I believe that as a role. I expect that I'll either turn up as a suicide tomorrow morning, or have died fighting some giant fish. Assuming that this is a slow kill, the actions to be worried about are thinking that you've had a long conversation but can't quite remember it, and waking up immensely distraught.
I'm now sure enough of this being a slow kill (although I'm not happy with it not being confirmed if it is, but at least if it is it won't sneak up on anyone else) that I will reveal the results of my night action, but not sure enough to pass on a full role claim. However, it turns out that my role doesn't actually generate information as expected, it generates information wrapped up in stupid flavour riddles that I'm supposed to work out but also somehow still be vague, so I haven't actually worked out what I'm supposed to know.
Without decoding the flavour, I know that there are between four and six non-town players, which is remarkably unhelpful. I believe that resolving the flavour will either shrink that zone (least likely), or that there's a mafia team of four and either one or two ITP, or that four Marbury locals (or possibly people currently actually in Marbury) are non-town and one or two outsiders are non-town (most likely). Again, not exactly happy that I'm not explicitly told. I'll puzzle it out for the rest of the day. I can provide more detail if desired, but doubt I can bring it up in sufficient detail that anyone else will be able to work it out.
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(In character description for the night information: )
This whole business has had me scratchin' my head, 'n for some reason this ol' screenplay came to mind. The Davidson Report, it was called. Creepy bugger of a story, it had. 'Bout this man who took to measuring his house and found it to be one inch bigger on the inside than on the outside, and it was all downhill from there, believe you me. Anyway, it gots me to thinking that maybe I could try'n measure Marbury, see what popped out. Spent the evening gettin' a list of all the locals, a list of everyone at Rosie's an' all that together and got to measuring, all science like.
Thing is, the most peculiar thing happened.
Measurin' from the inside of Marbury, I reckon I found that we have exactly four guilty buggers. Not sure they're all guilty of this here murder, but they're guilty one way or 'nother (read as: not town aligned).
Couldn't quite measure from the outside so well, but I'm sure that there are either five or six guilty buggers that way. Definitely not four from the outside in, oh no.
I've checked and double checked all of these here calculations, but I always get to the same conclusion. Summin just doesn't add up here.
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((Still ill, and I've a lot of work to catch up on. I'll probably be active again sometime tomorrow. Minimum roleplay from me for now, but I'll try to stay in-character, at least.))
What's all this then? We come back from yesterday's shenanigans to find Bike and 'Snake carryin' on their scuffle, and Handley's suddenly swapped sides? Again, the arguments strike me as the same as those on Callahan - bad play, but not necessarily a murderer. Rather'n votin' on it logically, I'm gonna look for what's more suspicious.
Though I'm secondin those requests of explainin the chronological thing. You're makin less sense than the sheep do.
((Okay, screw roleplay. I'm struggling to get any thoughts together here, and I've spent long enough looking through the posts getting nothing. Mild suspicions from yesterday/today:
- Hadley, as I said yesterday, reported waaay too much in his summary of everyone and, like the drunkard pointed out, it's near-useless when it's only halfway through D1. Today's post isn't bad, but is a lot of repeating what's been said mixed in with flavour to make it seem longer. I'm fine with roleplay, but when the actual content isn't there, it's a problem. One of the things saving him here is that he called Pietro out in his summary of everyone...
- ...and the case on Pietro is most definitely a valid one. His few posts seem to be focused on flavour and little else - I'm getting, at most, one point from each. Needs to contribute a lot more, but if we're looking at lurkers...
- ...Martin Andrews takes the grand prize. I actually found Hadley's summary of the guy going back and went "Wait, who?" He's had all of two posts the whole game, and one was a correction. If there's nothing on a mod-poke/kill here, then this is definitely a time for LaL.
Before voting Andrews, I'll wait for the Word of Mod to see what happens, so...
##Vote: Peyton Hadley
for Day 1 reporting and list to show activity while not providing too much in the way of content. D2's off to a better start, but this is still the best thing I'm seeing.))
((Ninja Moses parts the Red Sea is nice and confusing, as he said before. Nothing much to get from that that he hasn't already said himself, honestly.))
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Very briefly: Moses, is this Davidson Report business your description of your learnins, or the great almighty's? Back when I lived in the city I once met a curious feller by the name of Truant, who knew a little on the subject.
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In the middle of a proper evaluation, but to answer the ninja now:
Sam: the title itself was granted by the powers that be, but all else be my own workings.
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So the almighty mentioned the Davidson Report (should that be record?), but the business about a house bigger on the outside than the inside is your own elaboration on the theme?
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Sam: odd you should mention that, which means I now truly believe you know something about it (not that it's an alignment-tell or anything). First time I hear of it, it's The Davidson Record. Now I try and follow it through during the night it's suddenly The Davidson Report. How spooky (by which I mean lol, assume minor mistake).
But no, the plot of the story ain't mine either. I could read off a whole summary of the story right out of these notes, boy howdy. (I just wanted to indicate that all of the wording and angle was my own, since I've already been in trouble once over a copy/paste accusation already)
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Ronald Dale;
Right, so I been looking 'round here and... Not sure 'bout the oldtimer's paranoia of a slow death, but... man, what I am sure about? ... His name's Moses, ain't that right? Figures. Bike. Yeah. Old man Moses Bike.
I've been looking at everything. Words, words, words words words... can't make left or right of some of this. Man... hell, just a week still...
What do I know... hell, 'bout time I knew anything... is that I don't like the Hayles feller there.
##VOTE: Ethan Hayles
I don't like several things about him.
At the risk of sounding OMGUS, his initial vote for me doesn't make sense. I clearly said, "Let's end the jokevote phase", or something to that effect. Hayles then votes me for what he claims to be "taking jokevotes too seriously"... whereas I voted someone who hadn't voted at all.
Not the only thing. The entire Day 1 he sets his vote on me, mentioning Callahan once as someone he didn't thought to be scum, but also that he wasn't the best company to keep. Whatever that means. And then in his next post he votes Callahan after all, pretty late into the bandwagon.
What made me look back is today's case.
- ...Martin Andrews takes the grand prize. I actually found Hadley's summary of the guy going back and went "Wait, who?" He's had all of two posts the whole game, and one was a correction.
I actually found Hadley's summary of the guy going back and went "Wait, who?"
And then he votes Peyton for "not contributing too much in the way of content", says the arguments on Callahan were bad play but not scummy, and his Day 1 mentions only that Callahan isn't scummy followed by Callahan is scummy so I'll vote him - this doesn't add up.
Yeah no roleplay in that, deal with it~
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((No roleplay again, whee~.
I said you took the jokevote phase too seriously, yes. I never said it was a strong argument, it was the start of Day 1, what else d'you expect? I then kept my vote there on grounds of LaL, since you showed up early on and then did literally nothing for the rest of the day.
For Callahan, I said in the post where I voted him that there was only so much I could put down to bad play, and some of his responses seemed too scummy to be just bad. (And the part about 'not the best company' was basically flavour for "He's not good at being Town, but he doesn't seem like scum either." Obviously this changed as the day went on, and I don't think anyone here can say he looked less scummy between my posts that you mention.)
And what, I'm not allowed to read a name mentioned in Hadley's posts because I think he's scummy? Yes, I think Hadley is scum. But he mentioned Andrews and I didn't know who Andrews was. This shows nothing other than that I'm reading Hadley's posts, which I did with everyone - I went back and read the whole damn topic. And if that's not the point of your argument, I'm not sure what is.
Nothing to add on Moses/Sam's interactions. It could be suspicious, but it could also be purely flavour, so I'm willing to ignore this for now until we know either way.))
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Well now, that be enough about me woes and worries.
Sirs, my first rounds would be to check on who was pointin' at who and when. I'm particularly interested at the state of play come high noon (here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104595.html#msg104595)), when it was all blocked up 'n Tyrone's madness hadn't drawn all attention. Just before this were Kyle's move to me, and Jack and Martin bringing the count on Tyrone from one to three. The next few votes that followed this were:
Chad unvoting Hellgorilla (and voting Kyle)
Hellsealion unvoting Seamus and voting me
Pietro unvoting Seamus and voting Tyrone
(Ronald unvoting Pietro and voting Kyle)
Nikolai voting Tyrone
Nathan (unvoting Chad and) voting Tyrone
At which point (here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104702.html#msg104702)) it's all a lot clearer.
Now I'm thinkin' this is the key time of day and there's likely to be some guilty shuffling in here. With the way that Tyrone's madness took him, I'm sure that come sundown any ole criminal could lay low wherever they like, but back at noon it's a lot packed, and I'm betting they're sweating bullets in the hope that the right (wrong) people come out in front, especially if'n there's a guilty party in range at noon, which I'm thinking there's decent odds of.
Vote that screams out most there is Pietro's, who's already been pickin' up sticks today - jumpin' from one sinking ship in order to push another out in front. Nikolai's in that sweet spot of Tyrone voting as well, but I'm oddly far less suspicious of the Commie right now precisely because he went so far to provoke me, which doesn't sound like the best way to lie low when I'd been up in arms 'bout earlier attackers.
Probably not gonna find it surprising when I point to the Hellsalmon's vote next. Suspicion of pushing a second town wagon, you see. Don't gel very well given he came off Seamus to get there, I must admit, but I'd guess it looked more likely to stick, 'specially with all the bonuses that came with it. Funny how he's been struggling to get anythin' to stick to that case ever since.
I'd say that if the Hellllama is guilty then Chad looks a little bad for taking him outta the top slots, but then it was only a joke vote in the first place.
----
Oh, good day, Ethan. Mostly I'm hopin' Sam might know something 'bout the story that could jog the ole noggin and sharpen my results (maybe that's even how my role was supposed to work in the first place). Certainly hopin' for more than just idle chatter out of it.
-
"Morning, all.
So, Chad has done nothing that makes him look any better ((his last post basically said 'oh btw I don't support the Callahan lynch but Kyle is still bad on gut!')) but I'm a fair enough guy. I'll give him some time to speak up before I point any fingers, but by now if you aren't contributing it's a decent sign you've got something to hide.
Same goes for Andrews and Kolmogo-Kolgo-Komolgo-gah, you Ruskies have such crazy double barreled names, dammit.
As for scumminess - don't see any harm in Bike's claims since we'll find out if his suspicions are right soon enough, Pietro's habit of jumping around the wagons with little/no content before landing on Ty doesn't endear me to him, and Hellsnake is really not talking any sense from where I'm standing (then again, he hasn't offered anything of his own today, so I'll hold on judging him until I have some fresh info to work with). Of those three, I'm most comfortable with the mafioso over there - if nothing else, maybe the pressure will get him to actually say something that would sell."
##Vote: Pietro Giovanni
((OOC: I admit I'm not much of a reader, but thanks to an endless supply of pop trivia I'm pretty sure Bike's story is based off of The Navidson Record (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Leaves#The_Navidson_Record). Not sure if that'll help you cut your numbers down, but worth mentioning just in case.))
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I meant it in terms of what he puts down first, and when; He speaks like he talks. Now, normally I wouldn't be makin' such a fuss over it, but it just so happens that his case on me came almost entirely from me not voting --Not for not voting earlier but for just plain not voting-- upon which he voted me. Then came the admission that I had a vote down. The fact he talks like he thinks makes me more than a mite skeptical his vote on me was for the delayed voting, and not...
Blah, losing my train of thought. Basically, Moses talks in stream-of-consciousness. When he thinks of something, he says it. Normally, not a problem. But when Moses votes for me here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104549.html#msg104549) he makes his case about me not voting at all, votes me, then makes a brief mention that I have a vote down. The order that all happens in is the key part.
As for the rest of what's gone on today, I'm certainly going to need to take a closer look at Pietro and Peyton (And who is Martin Andrews? Name doesn't ring a single bell all game), as well as Seamus and Chad as they were my other top suspects of yesterday. Feel okay leaving my vote where it is, however, since Moses' last post is more than a little odd. I don't rightly see why he's trying to paint me with a brush there. If you could please clarify, Old Man Bike?
...oh, right. Before I forget, there really is no point in leaving my vote on Bike, given he's dead at some point tomorrow regardless, it would seem. (Either he's slow-killed, or he was lying)
##Unvote: Moses Bike
Will have a vote down after I do a nice thorough re-read. (However, will be busy today, and a good chunk of tomorrow, so might not come until sometime tomorrow) Would still like some clarification, however, Moses.
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No time, was gonna vote Pietro but there's enough pressure on him as is. Don't want to put him at risk of a scum-train quite yet. No read on Hellsnake because lolmage, and after the last day I'm not too keen on lynching simply for bad play. And this slowkill business coming out of Moses reeks of OMGUS (is that even the right terminology? I don't care). Gut says go for LAL until I have time to reason out things a bit more.
##Vote: Nikolai Kolmogorov
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(Nathan: thanks, but no, I don't think it'll break by knowing any more about the actual source material. Sam's reaction and talk of 'Truant' implies to me incredibly strongly that he might actually have been primed with relevant information for this situation, but your finding what it was based on at least warns me that it is at least possible for someone to pull bull on me (I'd assumed it completely invented here))
I'm not findin' Peyton to be the disagreeable sort. I slept through his long monologue, but can't say I'm surprised an actor would want the stage. Sure the guilty may want to try and hide a tree in a forest by belching out so much, but I don't think they'd be hiding so well if they then give you a map of the forest all summary like. Sure, I think the monologue was mostly pointless and could have been left unsaid 'cept for the glossy glossary at the end, but frankly it's his time spent on writing his script, and I'm happy so long as the end justifies the means. I'm really thinkin' that's true here.
If we're talking 'bout people evading our attention (flying under the radar), then top of my list is Sam for the accent thick enough to make for tough chewing, which caused me to all but totally ignore the man yesterday. Care less now that he's speaking with the proper English, o'course. Not sure why Martin's takin' so much more of a beating than the Commie, given their situations are nigh identical and all, unless'n it's just that his good American name isn't quite so memorable. Not that they both don't need to get their acts together today or nothing, but same can be said of too many of us asides.
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Oh, and it's the Hellsparrow again, parading around the fact that he doesn't actually have a reason to be pointin' at me - real men would have realised that they'd just misheard me, apologised and moved on rather'n try and make the error itself a reason to vote for me. Attachin' yet another hand-waver of a reason to me regardin' what I've just said. Will this one stick? I'm guessin' about as likely as anything else so far when you put so little into it. To do this 'clarifying' business you ask after, I was sayin' that noon (the time around the linked vote count in that post) was prime time for the guilty to make their move, 'n your move is one of the more suspect ones - even comes easy explained when it'd be your own ass you're coverin'. Not the foundation of no case when you can write that story with innocent intent, but let's call it an awful strange coincidence that the guiltiest man here in my eyes made a suspect and convenient vote change at the point I was thinking guilty parties would be most likely to be forced to move.
Not that I should really complain too much, but you've then stopped pointin' at me for one of the worst reasons. I've already made it clear that I don't know for sure that there's poison in my system that's gonna do me in, so on one hand if you think I'm lying then there's not much point in putting me off till tomorrow, and on the other hand if'n I am still alive on the morrow then I won't appreciate a quick trip to the charred gallows just on the basis I haven't already killed myself.
...can't inherently fault you for bein' busy and all, but delaying gettin' your opinions down for quite so long ain't gonna do your position any good.
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(Jack (Makkotah): I'm sure you'll expand on your thoughts later, but do you mean you find the claim fishy, or that the delayed kill itself was placed out of spite or similar? For what it's worth, given what seems like a high proportion of non-town players, I think it's almost definitely not from scum (unless crazily it's their only kill, which I don't believe for an instant, but reminds me - so far as I see no one's claimed to have been attacked last night yet), and be it vig or serial killer (oh god no role spec really), I'm guessing I was targeted for looking dodgy to whoever it was)
(Not that I like jumping right on in at LAL, but I trust your position far more than I do the Helltuna's, what with past and present opinions being far clearer)
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Looking back, something about Mr. Handley seems a little... off. I noticed that he completely ignores Moses today, his old case, and jumps guns straight to (one of) his next suspect(s). In this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104753.html#msg104753) post, he says he only drops ol' Moses because the case isn't taking off. He also says that neither of his next suspects seem at all scummy to him, just odd, and that they weren't something 'to take to the bank.'
Now, if we go to his post today, he jumps straight to voting for me because... why? Because I assumed scum weren't complete idiots, didn't have time to clear up the "chronological order" thing, and because I was a little stand-off-ish towards the end of the day yesterday? Sure, I can see that making me climb up the ladder of suspicion, maybe even to a vote (kinda, though that seems a little too aggressive to get much done), but what gets to me is the complete dropping of everything mentioned yesterday. It's not because I did of the reasons he had yesterday and the new stuff, it's just the new stuff.
But, mostly, if we're looking for a slow-killer... His sudden jump away from Moses (not even bothering to mention him today) makes me all the more suspicious of him.
##Vote: Sopko (Kyle Handley?)
Care to explain?
---------
Ninja'd by the old man. True enough, and I did misread you there. I thought you'd gotten a guarantee from the mod that you were slow-killed.
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((Ethan's voting me for too much reporting, in the same post he points a finger at a guy who first got picked up for lurking in those "reportery" posts and ADMITS HE DIDN'T NOTICE ANOTHER LURKER until those posts.))
((So yeah. Not even going to address this further, it isn't worth the trouble.))
"Times may be tough around these parts, Moses, but there's no call to start playin' the blues. You think maybe that stuff you're reading got into your head?"
((In other words, Moses: Did you have to actively REQUEST the material you're trying to puzzle out today? And if so, do you think it's possible that your slowkill, if you are suffering from a slowkill, could have come from doing that rather than from your visitor? It's potentially very important.))
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(At the very least, scratch the delayed opinions thing from my last post. That was way too fast to be made in response to me flagging him for it.
Don't look for the slow-killer at this point, though. They're not necessarily anti-town, and almost certainly not scum)
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(Peyton: I don't want to elaborate on my role too much at this point in case I don't bite the bullet (although if you're looking specifically for the keyword 'request', then no), but I am absolutely certain - short of being explicitly lied to - that it is not responsible for what I perceive as the slow kill. There are at least two very concrete reasons for this confidence. On top of that, all of the slow kill stuff came part and parcel with this meeting and long conversation with someone last night that I can't seem to remember any more, so whatever it is, it's coming from someone having acted on me.)
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On the accounts note: It's not a big deal, I realize people are in a rush, but a reminder to try and use the alternate account consistently if you're using one. Also, by default I sent night action results PM to "main" accounts on the theory that if you have email notification enabled, it'd be to that one. If anyone would rather get their PMs to their alternate account, just PM me so.
Anyway. Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [3]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves
Bill Hellsnake [2]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko)
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [2]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake
Peyton Hadley [1]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Jack Daniels
There are 53 hours left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Hey all. I got to work down at the drugstore today (or the insane tutoring girl, whichever), so I ain't got much time now but after this the crazy should finally be over for me.
Short version thoughts:
- I am pretty sure Moses is town. Moses, please tell us exactly what happened to you in as much detail as you possibly can. Ask the mod how close you can get to quoting if possible.
- I think Mr. Handley's switcheroo is crazy as all get out and combined with his stuff yesterday he needs to tell us what is goin on.
##Vote: Kyle "Sopko" Handley
- I am also willin to vote Pietro (who has not stood out at all to me which is bad) and lurkers
- I am not willin to vote Bill Hellsnake today, based on my continuing read on him and Handley's vote.
- Martin Andrews, Ethan Hayles, and Jack Daniels - I want you to tell me everything you know about the "Order of Unseen Wisdom." In particular I would like to know if any of you three specifically has any flavor information on what happened the night my Pop died. I do have reason to believe this flavor affects gameplay in at least a slight way.
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Alrighty, I be feelin' a li'l better now, so 'opefully I won't be needin' t'take too many breaks now. Can't be 'eld up by illness over on th'farm!
Hadley, I already gone 'n' explained that one to th'writer over there. It's all well and good finding some good points, but a list like that is a mighty fine way o' lookin like yer doin a lot while not actually addin all that much to the discussion. I said that yer conclusion were fine, just the build-up to it were 'orrible, an' I don't agree with Moses in sayin that the summary makes up fer it, since it still looks like you added a lot more to this discussion than you actually have.
Not to mention that your latest 'contribution' is just you comin in, sayin you don't need to defend yerself, then pushin Moses for a little more info for some role speculation. Really not seein a reason to move my vote right now.
Moses, lookin' back, Nikolai gave a lot more t'us in his post than Martin did, not that him not bein here now is any good. Still, would push Martin 'head of Nikolai on what li'l they 'ave given us.
Aye, Chad, I know a thing or two about the Order. Bein alone on the farm now means I be needin somethin t'do, and the Order's a good chance for me t'meet with people. As fer yer pa, me an' him spoke a few times, but 'e were always far more into it than me. Said he had some big thing planned next week, but those big events were ne'er my thing. I were more into the social side o' things.
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Hadly: I didn't lynch him because a roleclaimed bulletproof wasn't useful - his claim was a likely fakeclaim due to its unconfirmability and supposed usefulness to town (which I rubbished, rightfully so). And yes, my vote was already on him from before that.
Martin Andrews is not here, most deserving of LAL, only one post etc.
There's a few things goin' on around here makin' me a might suspicious, see?
The more I think about what this Hellsnake fellow said, the less it makes sense.
The post at http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104915.html#msg104915 raised concern, but more recently:
As for the rest of what's gone on today, I'm certainly going to need to take a closer look at Pietro and Peyton (And who is Martin Andrews? Name doesn't ring a single bell all game), as well as Seamus and Chad as they were my other top suspects of yesterday. Feel okay leaving my vote where it is, however, since Moses' last post is more than a little odd. I don't rightly see why he's trying to paint me with a brush there. If you could please clarify, Old Man Bike?
...oh, right. Before I forget, there really is no point in leaving my vote on Bike, given he's dead at some point tomorrow regardless, it would seem. (Either he's slow-killed, or he was lying)
##Unvote: Moses Bike
A total lack of consistency (I'll leave my vote where it is - /unvote/) leaves me wondering: if he's not paying attention to his own posts, how can he be paying attention to the game?
This on top of 'dropping names that people find suspicious' to target attention away from himself, without addressing any of those arguments (blatant name-dropping with no real effort or justification).
I'm not just nitpicking either, I'm fairly certain of my conviction; let the records show it.
##Vote Hellsnake
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Like I say, Bike, I heard Truant's tale about this Davidson (or Navidson? Could've swore it was Davidson, but this was years ago) Record back in Boston, and a mighty curious one it was too. Said he was going to try and have it published, though I don't know if anything ever came of that. If your visions from on high be matching up with it, mayhap I can help you find the sense of them. Though I don't recall there being a whole lot've sense in Johnny's tale, so there may not be much advice I can give. I can tell you to beware the minotaur, and which of the brothers was the good one, if you've got any correspondence between them kind of things and us, but the ways of the gods are mysterious indeed.
((Oh dear. I'd intended to reply as soon as we'd established who the House of Leaves stuff was coming from but then various things came up, and it seems people have been reading a lot more into what I said than there was; all I meant was I've read the book. I don't have any mod-given knowledge, I just recognised the name, so all this is probably (hopefully) irrelevant except for flavour.)
Two very minor points against Hadley: the stuff about bulletproof being useless is junk, obviously in the context of a roleclaim before the gallows, vanilla town is useless. (His point against Giovanni's voting, as expanded on by Bike, is sound though). I don't like "it's potentially very important", and it comes while he's repeating a point Dale has already made. Everything is potentially life or death here, and we all know this (as much as the last paragraph contradicts this).
Hellsnake... actually manages to make sense. (Not that you're right, Snake, by any means: Bike objected not only that you hadn't voted, but that you'd made a post in defence of not voting - at which point the fact that you had a vote down at the time genuinely is an afterthought and there's nothing suspicious in that). The namedropping is indeed bad, but only if he doesn't then follow up on it. Giovanni's "lack of consistency" point doesn't seem at all fair. What is bad, on the other hand, is that his post is all defence, with no scumhunting at all - but with the names we have something to hold him to.
Hutchins seems to have come to the same conclusions as myself so far; will wait to see where his flavour stuff is heading.
Kolmogorov was more memorable than Andrews by some way. It bears remembering that he did pitch up at the right time to pretty much seal the deal on Callahan, and talked as if he'd be posting a lot more (the questions about the use of russian) and then didn't. But because this was so blatant, I'm inclined to let him run with it for now, and would vote Andrews ahead of him, though I find Giovanni worse than either. When I started on this post I thought Giovanni's last post was trying to contribute, but having written my Hellsnake paragraph above I realise no; he rides on the "concern" raised by a previous post while saying nothing about it, gives some rather bad logic about paying attention, and makes one valid but simple point (about namedropping). It really doesn't feel like Giovanni's building his own case here. Active lurking worse than passive, and there's the vote timings to think about.
I'll give Handley and O'Malley another look when they've posted, but for now I'm thinking probably Handley ~ Giovanni > O'Malley > Andrews > Kolmogorov > Hadley, and the first three are the only ones smelling outright scummy.
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So, my good friend Hellsnake, you think I'm scummy because I think your argumentation is flawed and doesn't back up your defense? I'll accept your explanation of what you meant by the chronological order issue. That in particular was more an honest question than a part of the argument against you, which is why I separated it into a different paragraph.
However, again, your scum meta argument is frankly useless, and you continue to push other meta stuff as a legitimate and adequate defense of your actions. Even bringing up something like "Just look at what I've done in previous games! That proves I'm innocent!" is awful, and that alone is worth a vote. This is why I voted you. I said this. In fact, all you ever seem to do is counter-vote anyone who seems to go after you aggressively. You had two serious votes yesterday, the one on Seamus (the one that is not your opening jokevote) in which you snap at him for suspecting you, on the one on Bike... in which you snap at him for suspecting you. Admittedly, you've clarified what you meant by the chronological thing, but Samuel Hargreaves makes a valid point about that in his latest post. Now you have a vote today! ... in which you snap at me for suspecting you, and make ANOTHER baseless meta argument (the role speculation that I'm the cause of Bike's supposed condition due to not mentioning him). On that note, I've also had all of one post today (not a great thing admittedly), and you act as if I've actively dropped everything I said yesterday about Bike.
In retrospect, the vote-tagging at the end probably wasn't the best way to go about that, but I'll stick by it. And just because I didn't bring him up doesn't mean I'm not still watching Bike. I'm waiting very intently to see how this claim of his works out, and honestly the only thing that will clear him as far as that is his death, as far as I'm concerned. Just dropping him from consideration due to this isn't the way to go, as it ends up the same if he is an extra death down the line or he is lynched today even, unless he's scum. So actually that might be the economic thing to do! Just throwing that out there.
To Pietro, Bulletproof is actually useless to town once it is claimed, barring certain crazy role setups. Bulletproof really isn't something that's an effective fakeclaim to stop a lynch due to this.
I'll be waiting for plenty more posts from Pietro today, because it seems the potential is there for him to just doing the same thing he did yesterday: find a cupcake reason to hop on someone and ride it the rest of the day while not talking much.
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/me starts chugging from his bottle of moonshine. He's looking haggard, and if there was a visual representation of pain it'd be spilling out of his ears.
"Dang I got a hangover. ((OOC: Incidentally, this is true. Yes, it's 10PM the next day. I'm painfully aware of that.)) Jus' need a little hair o' the dog. But I reckon we need to get down to business."
"Moses, when I said I reckon yer full-a shit, here's what I meant: It sounds too convenient. You was a major focus of yesterday for whatever reason, and this slowly-dyin' mumbo jumbo sounds mighty nice for takin' the heat off. An if you ain't dead soon? Well, yer jus essssstrapoliatin from flavor, ain'tcha? I don't think yer scummy, least not as scummy as some other folks. This is just somethin' I'm filin' away for now."
"As fer the order... I was in it wit Ethan, Martin, and Jon, sure. Mays you don't remember much since you was a youngin, but after the war Jon hadn't come back with me. Went around the world, came back... shoot, seven years ago? Anywho, when he came back from his li'l globetrottin' esperience after the warhe got me t' join up with 'im. I ain't allowed to say too much, outta obligati'ns to the order and such ((re: Role PM wasn't too specific except that I took some sort of masonic-type oath at some point)). I may be a washed up ol' drunk but I'm a man of my word. What I can tell ya is Hayles speaks the truth. Been a social club in Maybury longer 'n I know of, and we get together and have these meetin's every now an' again. I ain't been goin' recently. Got tired o' all the rituals 'n shit. Rather jus... rather jus get some drink in me all on my lonesome."
"Actually, this brings to mind... 'ey, Andrews. You got some talkin' to do. You join't jus' before I quit goin'--may's you ain't got the same obligations as I? Frankly, I reckon you need to be yappin' a lot more afore long anywho. Quieter you keep, more creepy you look."
"As fer why I'm votin' the ruskie right now? His input's been better 'n Andrews', sure, but it still ain't much." ((Metagamingly speaking, while I haven't seen Shale at all on IRC which kind of corroborates his story, I've seen Alice in IRC off and on and she still only has one post up here. Suspicious!))
"Now outta y'all who's talkin, Hellspade's "I DONE THIS BEFORE!" stinks like my breath, and I ain't too sure my first hunch 'bout the salesman was wrong anymore. He done changed targets after refusin' to drop his case on Moses til the very end yesterday? And Pietro's talkin' more but I don't think he's still sayin' that much. Just kinda goin' along with the flow. I got my eye on these folks."
"I still ain't got a good read O'malley, but I ain't seein' what's so dang suspicious o' Seamus just yet. May's I'll post more when I get done readin' up on O'Malley."
((Ugh ninja'd by Sopko but I'm done thinking about Mafia right now. I need some fucking asprin. God damn.))
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Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [3]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves
Bill Hellsnake [3]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [3]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [1]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews
I have once more prodded our distracted friends. Hopefully Mother Russia and capitalism can get along well enough to contribute to solving the Marbury Mystery.
There are 41 hours left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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No time for a proper read before work, but one chilling thought struck me overnight: if there are really six nontown players then today could already be LYLO: tomorrow we'll be 11 with 6 to lynch, or 12 with 7 to lynch if Moses is still with us, and either way that could leave us outnumbered if all six bad guys are in there. I'm not sure that the thought helps us a lot (unless you want to take the lack of a warning about LYLO as proof that Moses is one of the six and really has been slowkilled, which a) is so meta it hurts, and b) is kind of stupid given that the info comes from him in the first place); we can't go being super paranoid with votes on day 2, but it's food for thought.
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((Dispensing with flavor since it's late and I just wrapped up work.))
Pietro comes back with yet another vote on a popular case, Hellsnake, justified by dubious reasoning (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105008.html#msg105008). If Hellsnake is not paying attention to the game, then he's playing badly. That makes him bad town, not scum. We've been down that road before - just yesterday, seems to me.
Vote definitely standing on Pietro.
Although, oddly enough, he DOES make a decent argument against Hellsnake when he mentions the namedropping without accompanying argumentation. Why isn't THAT the crux of his argument? Well, it's in keeping with his continually attacking bad (weak?) play rather than Scummy play.
A clarification for those talking about the Bulletproof stuff? I was the one who argued it wasn't useless once claimed. Clear a BP via other roles and you've got a confirmed Townie who can't die outside of LYLO, to give just one example. And with apparently no successful nightkill last night, we presumably have at least one other defensive role, which might have been able to combo with BP to make one or more nights invincible. It's useful in very specific situations, which are not apparent to a newbie, and it loses most of its utility when claimed except in those situations - which would make it a fucking stupid fakeclaim for a newbie like Callahan to make.
Anyway, that doesn't matter now except as it reflects on Pietro (and me), and it seems like people are getting mixed up who said what about it.
What Hellsnake ACTUALLY seems to do in the post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104957.html#msg104957) Pietro is voting on? The same thing he complained of Bike doing, voting in "chronological order," which he later explained meant stream of consciousness. Which... :sigh: again, dances the line between bad play and Scummy. The entire row between Hellsnake and Bike has just been one big facepalm on the Hellsnake side.
And yet, now that Hellsnake has moved on from Bike (for the wrong reasons, but whatever), he's...
... moved on to another apparent OMGUS.
::facepalm::
This one is more interesting, though. What Hellsnake says about Kyle/Sopko here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104960.html#msg104960) seems accurate to Kyle's case as he had presented it to that point (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104923.html#msg104923). And it IS a weird transition, dropping Bike that way.
(I'll note that Pietro never mentions this post, despite HIS vote for Hellsnake coming after it.)
I'll admit, Hellsnake's arguments still seem bad to me, aside from the spot on Kyle which is marred by the fact that its OMGUS. I just can't get out of my head that it could be playstyle, and the others I'm suspicious of don't have that excuse.
Kyle goes on to clarify his reasons for voting Hellsnake and not mentioning Bike here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105031.html#msg105031). His arguments against Hellsnake are more in depth now, and clearly, and rightly call the snake out for OMGUSing and trying to excuse possible Scumminess with bad play.
He also explains why he didn't mention Bike. He only had one post, and there was the slowkill. Except Bike had only tossed out a very light speculation on the slowkill to that point, and he's never confirmed that's what it is to us (nor, for himself, with the mod - if we're to believe him). I... guess Kyle could choose to say nothing about his main, main target from yesterday, who his last mention of continued to express interest in lynching, and instead hie off on a new, easier target, all because of one throwaway line about flavor in said target's post.
Kyle's explanation after the fact COULD BE true.
But it DID come after the fact, only when promoted by a vote - even an OMGUS vote - and it seems like strange play from someone who was so aggressive the previous day.
I liked Kyle on Day 1, but now he looks Scummy to me.
Speaking of Moses, by way of Jack (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105043.html#msg105043).
I'm not sure I believe Moses's slowkill, Jack. Whether he's lying about it and Scum (or at least non-Town), telling the truth about it and right, or telling the truth about it and wrong... I just can't tell.
I don't agree that it's convenient, though. The people on Moses yesterday were Hellsnake (who is still in the frying pan for a mix of Scummy and bad play, and rightly so), Callahan (who played terribly and used a lot of INCORRECT meta in his votes, despite turning up Town), Kyle (who... initially inexplicably dropped the bad, to my mind, case... and anyway no one seemed to be listening to him) and Seamus (whose vote... doesn't seem very serious, to me, and certainly he never pressed it). Moses was under little to no MEANINGFUL pressure at the time he broke out the ruminations about slowkill.
Which doesn't make it true, of course, or accurate.
It should not, IMO, enter into our decisions regarding him in any way.
Ethan Hayles is on my case (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104946.html#msg104946). Perhaps I'm not the best to judge his case on me, since, well, it's obviously personal. Ronald Dale addresses (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104953.html#msg104953) the same thing that jumped out at me about his post, namely that Ethan is crediting my analysis for turning him on to Martin and attacking me for going into too much detail. If I hadn't forced myself to go player by player, I'd have missed Martin, as he apparently did in HIS less formalized re-read since my reportage came well after Martin's sole "contribution" to the thread.
Ethan (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104999.html#msg104999) (et al), I can only say I had good reason to ask Moses about the source of his possible delayed kill, and good reason to not want Scum to know what that reason is if I can avoid it.
I was going to say that Ethan's calling me out for rolefishing is more valid than for reporting... but then it occurred to me - what role COULD I fish from that question? It certainly doesn't seem to correspond to any of the traditional Mafia roles.
Maybe I'm missing what a theoretical Scum!Hadley could have been fishing for, and it's clear to you and you don't want to say it for fear of giving it away. Fair enough. BUT. If I was rolefishing in an oblique way, surely Chad was doing so in rather more detail here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104989.html#msg104989)? In a post Ethan explicitly responds to? So I'm not even giving him a pass on that.
Overall, I think Ethan's original argument against me is specious and weak, and doesn't justify a vote over the two lurkers he called out. Not sure what to make of this, uncomfortable making ANYTHING of it because I'm not sure if my view isn't colored by OMGUS.
I also don't know if it reflects on Chad one way or another. He's dangerously close to Pietro-esque lurking at this point, albeit without the train hopping.
Currently, I'm staying on Pietro. Kyle/Sopko comes across badly as well due to his weird switch. Hellsnake? Gah. Null read trending toward scummy (mostly for saying how it's "just his playstyle" and we should forgive/forget it as a result), but if so I'd have to accept his being bussed this early in the day? Ethan seems scummy to me but I'll leave that for others to decide. Chad, and obviously our two absent comrades, aren't posting enough. Same goes for Dale, I suppose.
Personally, I do not care to vote for Hellsnake today despite finding him on the upper end of suspicious, just because he seems the most likely of the suspicious people to be so because of mistakes rather than Scumminess.
I'll wait for Word of Mod before I move on to Lynch All Lurkers on the Russian and Martin - besides, I think we have genuinely scummy people to pursue right now.
(P.S. Thanks to Sam Hargreaves for losing the heavy accent. SO much easier and more pleasant to read your posts now. :) )
::dimensional shambler'd by Sam::
We haven't had a LYLO announcement. I don't believe the Mod is so bastard as to drop something like that on us secretly.
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A total lack of consistency (I'll leave my vote where it is - /unvote/) leaves me wondering: if he's not paying attention to his own posts, how can he be paying attention to the game?
"Question, Mr. Giovanni. What makes you so sure Hellsnake's got bad intent and isn't just a little, uh, out there? I'd word it more clearly, but libel is a bit of a jerk like that.
Thing is, I don't see what makes Hellsnake's lack of attention a clear sign he's a killer."
Your second point, about him mentioning a ton of names and not following up, is a lot more believable. Looking back through my notes, though, I saw that here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104957.html#msg104957) he said he'd need time to make a re-read, and according to my trusty pocket watch (when politicians say they'll give me five minutes for the interview, I hold them to it!), that's due sometime later today. So I'm gonna wait and see what comes of that before I judge Hellsnake, but as a consequence Pietro looks kinda opportunistic."
((Holding Hellsnake responsible for a lack of information when he's said he'll produce later is pretty aggressive. Weren't you the one who loved America for holding the trial before determining the verdict? Vote stays for now.))
"As for Handley:
Just dropping him from consideration due to this isn't the way to go, as it ends up the same if he is an extra death down the line or he is lynched today even, unless he's scum. So actually that might be the economic thing to do! Just throwing that out there.
...Wait, what? You want to lynch the guy who's already claimed that some deep dark secret is gonna eat him up tomorrow? What do we have to gain from lynching him a day early, rather than spending today looking for other suspicious folk?"
((If we lynch Town!Bike, then obviously we've wasted a day and given scum an extra head. If we lynch Scum!Bike, then we've gained NOTHING compared to if we'd just waited out the day, noticed he was still alive, and lynched him D3. So there's no reason to risk pressing for his lynch (we lose out if we're right, and gain nothing if we're wrong) and the fact you're even suggesting this makes me feel uncomfortable.
Still think Pietro's passive suggestions are a little scummier than Kyle's in-your-face wrongness, though. Andrews and Nikolai (MUCH easier to remember than Kolmogorov) still need to exist.))
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EBWOP: "We lose out if we're wrong, and gain nothing if we're right, even. Dammit, why do you guys only sell beer around here? I need a goddamn coffee!"
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I'm chewing on a post cutting all the background details I have as closely as possible, but before then:
Sam: we don't lose until scum equal/outnumber us. ITP don't count towards that. I'm idly guessing (but not basing anything on at this point, it's meaningless) that three scum, two ITP seems most plausible, which sees us plenty clear of LYLO for now. Not even close even assuming four scum. Early friendly warning not to spend so much time thinking about the set up, mostly because you seem to end up at weird and incorrect conclusions, the obsession of which got you in plenty of trouble in your other game. Of course, playermeta from that gives me a slight town leaning on you, but argh, stop it.
Unfortunately, your being acquainted with the man behind The Davidson Report doesn't seem to help, at least on first glance. Thanks nonetheless.
I'm expecting Chad to actually pull through with something from the push for information, else I'm worried about smoke screening by paying too much attention to flavour that's nice and all, but not actually helpful. That and slowly growing concerns about a pairing with Hellcod.
Oh, okay Peyton. So I excused you for your one man show yesterday, but that post is grade A wall of text journalism that reads super bad for being about five times as long as it need be. Regarding confirming the effect of night action on me with the mod, I've tried and failed. I'm not fearing heat if it doesn't kill me, given that odds are it'll happen to someone else tonight to corroborate tomorrow.
Was kind of more willing to let Kyle off than most for not going back on me today after the end of yesterday, but I seriously don't like the retcon implication regarding it being about the claim. Main reason why I'm not behind lynching him is because I do think he's the slow-killer (/ whatever happened to me), who I don't think is scum. Not that role spec should draw the claim out of him either way. Just don't think I can dance around the issue and claim I'm against his lynch for trumped up reasons. More the reason why I'm at the very least cautious about who's pushing on him. Would certainly be pushing Pietro over him if need be, for reasons mostly not originally my own.
I'm also not happy at the sheer number of people willing to lynch me straight up tomorrow if I don't turn up dead.
Likewise the amount that Hellchameleon is getting free passes. I know Mage can be unstable and all, but he's played a straight up standard scum gambit so far this game, with a variation on being super-OMGUS.
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This one is more interesting, though. What Hellsnake says about Kyle/Sopko here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104960.html#msg104960) seems accurate to Kyle's case as he had presented it to that point (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104923.html#msg104923). And it IS a weird transition, dropping Bike that way.
(I'll note that Pietro never mentions this post, despite HIS vote for Hellsnake coming after it.)
I'll admit, Hellsnake's arguments still seem bad to me, aside from the spot on Kyle which is marred by the fact that its OMGUS. I just can't get out of my head that it could be playstyle, and the others I'm suspicious of don't have that excuse.
Kyle goes on to clarify his reasons for voting Hellsnake and not mentioning Bike here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105031.html#msg105031). His arguments against Hellsnake are more in depth now, and clearly, and rightly call the snake out for OMGUSing and trying to excuse possible Scumminess with bad play.
He also explains why he didn't mention Bike. He only had one post, and there was the slowkill. Except Bike had only tossed out a very light speculation on the slowkill to that point, and he's never confirmed that's what it is to us (nor, for himself, with the mod - if we're to believe him). I... guess Kyle could choose to say nothing about his main, main target from yesterday, who his last mention of continued to express interest in lynching, and instead hie off on a new, easier target, all because of one throwaway line about flavor in said target's post.
Have to be quick, but I more meant that "I only had one post in which I didn't mention him, and now there's the slowkill" rather than meaning the slowkill was part of why I didn't mention him in it. Not that it wasn't hinted at, but it didn't factor into why I switched to Hellsnake at all initially. Of course, that can only be taken at my word, so make of it what you will.
And to Nathan, I know it's an uncomfortable suggestion, but look at it. We still lose him tomorrow if he's telling the truth, and if he's lying, we lynch a scum. Lynching a scum is NEVER gaining nothing. If you came out against this from the position that his lynch tells us nothing, it'd make a little more sense, but if he ends up being scum it is not. I never said that we should forget looking at everyone else either.
To Moses, I'll agree that Peyton's posts are typically longer than they need to be, but they're hardly just meh journalism. How many times have we had someone say "Well, I wouldn't have noticed that." from his posts? He's adding new stuff, you just have to sift through the text. I'll go with your call that he needs to boil things down more, but I'm not getting a scum vibe from it on it's own. When he chooses a case to pursue, he's at least pretty consistant overall.
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((Whaddya know, ill again. Back to no roleplay, sigh.
Hadley is still saying so much here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105068.html#msg105068) that means so little. Example:I'm not sure I believe Moses's slowkill, Jack. Whether he's lying about it and Scum (or at least non-Town), telling the truth about it and right, or telling the truth about it and wrong... I just can't tell.
If I hadn't forced myself to go player by player, I'd have missed Martin, as he apparently did in HIS less formalized re-read since my reportage came well after Martin's sole "contribution" to the thread.
Except I tend to read backwards through the topic. If I'd been going forwards through the topic, the first thing I'd've done would be look at the character list, which would've been enough to achieve what your reporting posts did.
I was going to say that Ethan's calling me out for rolefishing is more valid than for reporting... but then it occurred to me - what role COULD I fish from that question? It certainly doesn't seem to correspond to any of the traditional Mafia roles.
You asked if the slowkill was linked to his role. You asked how he obtained that information. It was nothing to do with just flavour, like Chad's one that you later mentioned.
The reason my vote was on you over the lurkers before was because we'd had no Word of Mod on whether they were going to be modkilled or not, and I wasn't going to place a vote on someone who might then go on to be modkilled. As it is, I'm feeling even more justified in my current vote, as that post was needlessly long and contributed very, very little.
Handley's all over the place with his views, but it doesn't strike me as scummy, and I'm more inclined to see who gives off scum-vibes over who is logically bad after yesterday. >.> Same goes for Hellsnake, who's seeming very much to be bad Town right now. Can't say the same for Pietro--
Was gonna repeat what Nathan said about 'Snake producing info later, but ARGH do NOT promise information later and then say you'll be away for 24+ hours. Still not necessarily scummy, just fucking annoying.
...And then he goes on to post an hour later and vote? I take back what I said a couple of lines back. Hellsnake is seeming pretty scummy now, and I'd happily push for his lynch. Leaving my vote where it is, but Peyton = Snake > Pietro are my main suspicions right now, excluding lurkers. (And I'm including Ronald and his amazing one (relevant) post a day in the lurkers group.)))
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((Aaand wrong account. Putting this here for people using the View by Last Posts. >.>))
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Superquick post during lunch: if we really think Bike is scum (and I don't), we should lynch him today, slowkill-claim or not; better to lynch scum now rather than later, and who knows what mischief he might be able to get up to tonight? (And this holds double since he's trying so hard to say that it might not be a slowkill after all).
Handley evidently agrees, which makes his "and now there's the slowkill" very awkward, though he has acknowledged this.
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Chad: right, here you go, here are all of the details I have from the top again, as close as I can shave them. Note that this post is mod approved: either approved that it doesn't break any rules, or approved for dedication to bullshitting. So by hook or by crook I'm allowed to say this.
My story starts two weeks ago when I was out fishing in the mountains (not at the lodge), where I heard [probably] two or three people doing some weird chanting and then a scream, but didn't check any closer. Presumably some NPC death that we haven't even worked out exists yet. Probably scum, but possibly a joint dark secret (guess it could have been Order members instead of scum). Suddenly a little unsure how this fits with the information I gained last night, which was potentially pointing at four scum (conclusion is I guess not, it'd be overthe expected odds anyway).
On the night of the murder of Jon Hutchins I was fishing near the lodge, where I didn't see or hear anything, and don't have anything to help with there. After I mixed up these two events at the start of day one this changed to agree with what I said (that I also heard chanting and a scream on the night of the murder), but I think go with ignoring the cover up and work with what we were supposed to.
Last night (night 1) was split into two parts for me. The first part was my own night action, which involved several paragraphs detailing The Davidson Record, eventually running into the whole 'hey, let's try that here, that wouldn't be totally crazy or anything' plan. The most specific I can get about this result is measured from the inside, 4 non-town; measured from the outside, 5 or 6 non-town, but unclear what 'inside' and 'outside' refer to exactly. I've already presented my thoughts on it being measurements of inside or outside of Marbury itself as the best bet, or possibly the difference between 'scum' and 'anti-town'. Don't really buy there being four scum very easily, but not sure about the other possibility either, as it was more people getting measured than places.
The other half was the action on me. This comprised of waking up feeling wretched, having a long conversation during the night that I can no longer remember, and having seen a vision. The vision was of my dark secret - it felt like the worst possible outcome of the secret (Rath'napula mean anything to anyone?). I need to deal with it, and the time for that is soon. The language is very final, basically like the dark secret will swallow me or I'll die bringing it right or something. Plus a little more to make it clear that this is the work of someone else's night action. There was no attached mechanical effect, but everything points to something happening during night 2 instead, and I can't see what it could be other than a slow kill. What else can it be, the power of plot resolution?
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Oh, bugger, cocked up the highlighting. Wanted to draw attention to the core of my night action's meaning: measured from the inside, 4 non-town; measured from the outside, 5 or 6 non-town. Refer back to the post above for the attached speculation.
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Just so I have this information later... Moses, would you say your investigation was cop-like? Y'know, acted like a cop investigation?
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Ronald Dale;
Dropping in just to say nothing's changed. Complaining someone hasn't contributed much and yet accrediting realisations due to that someone's posts does not a good case make to me. Not to mention I doubt scum'd try to put themselves on the radar so massively on Day 1.
Happy with where my vote is.
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Ronald Dale;
I said you took the jokevote phase too seriously, yes.
This is really a non-issue but I didn't take it serious at all, hence why I said to put an end to it and make a serious vote for a serious reason and an early stage in the game. Lollygagging around with jokevotes doesn't help anyone, moving into srs bsns does.
And what, I'm not allowed to read a name mentioned in Hadley's posts because I think he's scummy? Yes, I think Hadley is scum. But he mentioned Andrews and I didn't know who Andrews was. This shows nothing other than that I'm reading Hadley's posts, which I did with everyone - I went back and read the whole damn topic. And if that's not the point of your argument, I'm not sure what is.
Point of argument = you said Hadley doesn't contribute much, I disagree and rebuke that with your own observation that he pointed out lurkers and made you aware of at least one. He's done his part in trying to help town by reviewing everyone and pointing out the lurkers. Whether this was helpful or not can be measured by whether he raised any awareness of lurkers. (He did)
As for the rest, could happily switch to Pietro if no one's interested in Ethan. I started with him Day 1 where he was cheerleading the jokevote phase and purporting it to be serious (This is where Ethan's attention should have gone) and I pretty much have to read back to remember he posts at all. (My name is Kettle, Pot, how are you?)
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((More OoC~
BardDale, that is the entire point of reporting - it highlights things that anyone can find to make it look like a contribution. Yes, I noticed Martin existed because of his posts. It just happened that I came across his posts before Martin's own.
As for the radar thing, it's just reading as "It's so scummy, it can't be" which is asffsgdftgfsfcdsagvgfdasfcregfzd.
'Snake's definitely rolefishing there, which is horrible, especially considering how little he's trusted Moses until now - has there been a change to that, Snake, or are you asking someone you don't trust to provide you with information? >.>
Personally, I'm inclined to trust Moses, since he's seemed very much Town to me so far, but no idea on the meaning there. I guess it could mean people from inside/outside Marbury, but I'm leaning more towards it being scum/non-town myself.))
((Dale ninja: Except he did this at the start of Day One. It was pure reporting, he didn't even comment on the lurkers in his summary, and it was way too early to be of any use ANYWAY so it is entirely there to look like he's contributing while offering very little - like everything else he's posted since.))
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Ronald Dale;
Yeah, I don't subscribe to "so scummy it can't be scum".
However I can see where you come from if you put it at the End of Day 1. My personal opinion is that it wasn't entirely 100% town to do but not scummy either. If anything I have a pretty good feeling about Peyton so far, except I can't say much but that it originates more from the gut than from the mind.
I'm not as optimistic about Moses. There isn't anything in there I feel comfortable holding against him, but I, for one, don't buy his slow-kill story at all. All this cryptic pish-posh pointing to a coming slowkill sounds suspect enough. There's good enough reason for me to let it slide for the day, but I'll definitely revisit it tomorrow.
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Not quite subtle enough, Hellmantis. I doubt that was deliberately set up as a bluff / double bluff, though, so I'm very much inclined to back off of you right this instant.
##Unvote: The Hellowlbear
##Vote: Pietro Giovanni
For all the reasons for Pietro, and all those against Kyle, given this breaks the current three-way tie.
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Since the rules question was asked: LYLO and Potential LYLO will be announced.
Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [4]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike
Bill Hellsnake [2]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [3]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [1]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews
Obligatory warning: If Nikolai and Martin do not post by the end of Day 2, they are likely to fall into a portal to another dimension, where they will stare helplessly at their bodies being controlled by unknown other souls, or even worse fates where their bodies simply disappear with ne'er a trace. Don't let it happen.
There are 29 hours left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Just so I have this information later... Moses, would you say your investigation was cop-like? Y'know, acted like a cop investigation?
((what is this i don't even))
((For once I have to agree with Ethan on something. Put Hellsnake back atop my list next to Pietro. No longer uncomfortable switching to him, because seriously, sod this noise. If that isn't blatant scum rolefishing, I literally don't know what it could be.))
((I don't understand why Moses backs OFF after this, and his explanation doesn't clarify it to me. I do agree with the DIRECTION, obviously. I also don't understand why Moses is giving Kyle/Sopko a free pass on his weird day to day switch, to the point of shifting his vote to Pietro with the specific justification that it breaks the tie between Pietro and Kyle. I'm all for protecting the innocent, but where is your evidence of innocence, Moses?))
((Looking back, I see your reason is that you believe he's the slow-killer and that the slow-killer is non-Scum for setup reasons. I don't see your reason for the former belief, though, which... GAH. If it's role, it's role. Fuck. Otherwise, I'm not at all inclined to give Kyle a pass because all his explanations are only when pressed on specific issues, although certainly I don't think he's top 2 Scummy today.))
BardDale, that is the entire point of reporting - it highlights things that anyone can find to make it look like a contribution. Yes, I noticed Martin existed because of his posts. It just happened that I came across his posts before Martin's own.
((No, Ethan, the point of reporting is to look like you're contributing without taking stands or unearthing new information. You're going to sit there and claim I've done that? If this becomes an issue with anyone else I'll give you a point by point of what I noted first, or issues I had that no one else had raised, or positions I've taken so people can judge me by WHAT I've done for the game, not HOW you think I have done it.))
"I find you don't like me much, Mr. Hayles, and I'm at a right loss to understand how you think I ought to play things. Maybe you'd rather I latch on to a single fella like one of those English bulldogs and not let go with all my might, like you have? Seems to be your preference."
"Near as I can tell, your whole blessed case on me is based on the fact I ain't tunneled on to a single person all day, and have the temerity to say so. Or else on the fact I ain't blessed with the time to lurk about here and pop up each time one of these fine gentlemen says something that sits uneasy with me, so I'm forced to express all my thoughts simultaneous-like."
((This goes for Moses, too, since he seemed to agree with Ethan about my latest post. Actually, it goes strictly for Moses since, despite some weirdness today, I'm inclined to think he's pro-Town, which is very much not the case for Ethan.))
((Considering that I have maybe two or three times a day to drop in here with enough time to post, how would YOU have me post my suspicions, thoughts and reasoning? I can't react as fast as issues develop; should I just IGNORE issues that aren't either 1) the most recent or 2) the most severe? Because that's... not going to happen, I'm sorry.))
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Hayles, at some point everything anyone can say comes down to things you could figure out from listening to everyone else and thinking about it hard enough. If what's said becomes useful to the rest of us, it's no longer reporting, it's contributing, and if Hadley's helped us pick someone out of the shadows, as it seems he has, then that's a good deed, plain 'n simple. Now while he's gone on at much greater length than he rightly needs to, what matters is not the volume of chaff (he's not gonna get a whole lot've credit simply for having written a lot on day 1) but the weight of the kernel, and on that front I'd say there're plenty of folks worse than him (Giovanni springs immediately to mind).
Hutchins has been gone half a game day now. He better have something to show for all that flavour he was requesting. O'Malley has been gone even longer, and Giovanni is topping the bunch (I can't actually see a single post from him to-game-day, though I'm sure I read a short one earlier - perhaps with the wrong account?). Handley is posting, but on looking there's not a lot; this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105031.html#msg105031) says little if anything new on Hellsnake, and nothing on any other subject; namedrops the big case of the day while contributing nothing to it. And regarding "you act as if I've actively dropped everything I said yesterday about Bike." - you had not even mentioned him in your only post, how more "active" does it get? Most recent post is ever so slightly better with the opinion on Hadley, but it's still mostly self-defence complete, with a curious reinterpretation of his own post.
Active lurking worse than passive (outright non-posting is not subtle), so vote stays where it is, but I'll be looking to hear something from O'Malley before long, and that goes double for Giovanni if he really hasn't posted today.
Hadley ninja. I imagine Bike was hoping we could all reason this for ourselves and keep it out of the public thread, but it looks like it's going to have to come out, and scum will be reasoning collaboratively, so I think it's best to get it out in the open: as I read it, Hellsnake is a cop, and so (understandably) wanted to know whether investigating certain players/things leads to the probable-slowkill Bike's been hit with. Bike believes this is really the case (rather than Hellsnake trying to bluff us that that's what's going on), hence the backoff.
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Well, back.
Mr. Hargreaves, you are quite correct. Pietro has made a post so far today, but it's more of his usual nothing, so I don't blame you for not remembering it. On that note, Mr. Hargreaves, I've noticed I'm constantly getting mentioned by you as a suspect. All I can really get from a quick look through though is some stuff vaguely related to my Hellbadger case. Mind elaborating?
As for Chad, I'm also fairly curious as to what he's pulling out. Especially since I'm not sure if waiting for Mr. Martin to show up is such a hot idea with his current attendance record. Add on that flavour came first, I'm really not sure what the point of what he's aiming at is. Which makes all the drama and suspense nothing more than a bad joke of a smokescreen. Definately bad vibes here.
And... while I'm not entirely sure what to believe about the slowkill, I'm also baffled at why someone would fake claim it. I mean, while Bike looked to be getting the second most heat on Day 1, Hellsnake sure felt closer to being in actual danger (in that Moses got a lot more noise, but the Hellchupacabra got a lot more actual attention and votes, 4-6 if you look at the counts). So, yeah. Doing something that would only grab attention seems risky. Doesn't hurt that I'm otherwise leaning Town on the guy, and at the very least. I'm curious to see if that really is a slowkill or not, so lynching him seems a bad idea, especially since we have so many better people to go after than him.
Also don't see the case on Hadley. Guy does like the sound of his own voice, but he's at least thinking about stuff, and there's usually something in his posts worth the read, which is more than I can say for some of you gents. Only other thought is vague disappointment that Martin and Nikolai might get away with single posts before day's end, but such is life.
Need to read up on Ronald, and keeping commentary on the Helljackalope back until he's looking worse than Giovanni... somehow.
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Okay.
So misters, even though I ain't spoke up too many times, I thought I was at least pretty clear with what my opinions were. This comes up when Mr. Peyton steps up and makes a big long speech that as I heard it boils down to "Hellsnake is dumb not scum, Pietro is textbook scummy, ain't nothin to be done on Moses" and then a bit of self defense and one toss-off mention of Kyle as maybe scummy.
Now... ain't that exactly the conclusions I came to and posted earlier? Sure does look like it, cept with a ton more reportin, downplayin Kyle, and then a lurker accusation on me - which I guess is for only needin a few sentences to say things instead of a wall, given that Mr. Peyton otherwise seems to agree with me? Dang, I hate it when the smart kids come in an' try to make me look stupid. I may not be the brightest in school but I got an eye on punt fakeouts and man but I am willin to vote Mr. Peyton as well now for reporting and downplaying Kyle and up-playing me.
An' then we got some more stuff goin on with Moses and Hellsnake, which aw hey, Peyton gon latch on to to yell at Hellsnake again. Well now how does that make any sense? If Moses is DYIN tonight like he says he thinks he is then why is askin for his role such a bad thing?
... and why does Mr. Hargreaves somehow get that Hellsnake is a cop from that? Not entirely clear what is up there.
Anyhow Kyle came back and defended Mr. Peyton's reportin style too so I am definitely thinkin they are buddy buddy and not too good. A Pietro is fine too an all but I think I'd now really like to see one o'them two get tackled today myself.
As for the flavor stuff. Well I have not heard back from Martin Andrews yet so that makes it hard to say anything. Also Moses gone and changed his story so now I'm not too sure what to think. I have been lookin through Pop's stuff though and what I am still sure of is that there is one other specific person in town affiliated with the Order of Unseen Wisdom and their rituals (other than the three I mentioned) and I would like to find out who they are. This is all mostly just a side thing though... for now. I ain't sure whether there are game effects or not from it all but it's implied there might be so why not? But it is all aside from actual cases, so.
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"Chad, son, apparently my speechifyin' has indeed allowed the medium to obscure the message, on account of you seem to misread my post rather badly."
"I think you haven't been around much, and you yourself admit that. I think Mr. Hellsnake acts plenty guilty, and his most recent action pushes him right on back to the top of my pile. I said I didn't want to vote for him on account of he looked like the less DANGEROUS possible-Scum, not the less suspicious. That's a far cry from your assessment, where you seem to feel he's cleared at least for the moment."
::Peyton glances Hargreaves' way.::
"I don't follow you there, Sam. How does what Hellsnake asked imply HE is a cop, not Bike? Bike never mentioned any 'investigation,' just a visit."
"Back to you, though, Chad. I also think Mr. Handley looks guilty today, and seems to me between saying I think he looks Scummy and putting him second on my list of suspects on that time, I don't see much more I could've done. I could have voted for him, but that would have meant taking my vote off Mr. Giovanni, who still seems like the worst to me by a fair margin."
"Our takes don't seem to line up on much of anything EXCEPT Handley looking bad today."
((Also, I had a problem with your rolefishing and lack of presence, but as you can see from my list of suspects, you were low on the list, and remain so.))
"As to your search for information on your Dad's Order? I ain't involved on account of having just shown up in town, but I can tell you what I saw when I went out there last night:"
((Since that's where my night's PM told me I went to investigate. :) ))
"The Order's rituals are definitely in tight with certain THINGS man was not meant to know. Don't know where they picked it up or whether they knew it or not, but they were dabbling in something right awful. They seem to hold Walpurgis Night (April 31) and Hallow's Eve (October 31) sacred, and celebrate with bonfires up in the mountains. Don't know what they put IN 'em, though."
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And to Nathan, I know it's an uncomfortable suggestion, but look at it. We still lose him tomorrow if he's telling the truth, and if he's lying, we lynch a scum. Lynching a scum is NEVER gaining nothing. If you came out against this from the position that his lynch tells us nothing, it'd make a little more sense, but if he ends up being scum it is not. I never said that we should forget looking at everyone else either.
((If Bike is Town and we lynch him today, we lose out.
If Bike is Scum and we lynch him today, we gain something, true.
But if Bike is scum and we spend today looking elsewhere instead, then he'll probably still be alive tomorrow and we lynch him D3, after which things will be pretty much exactly the same.
In the end, if Bike is scum, we'll either lynch him D2 or D3. We can't be SURE he's scum until D3, so why lynch him D2?))
"I'm really not following the Bike/Hellsnake interaction. Hellsnake asks a real personal question about the old man's role, and Bike's response is to move his vote away? Given that the old man knows his role best, though, I'll assume he's trusting Hellsnake for a good enough reason. Still seeing no reason to look away from Pietro today."
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So, took a look at our good friend Ronald, and... seems he and Mr. Hayles are pretty inseparable. I mean, they've been sniping back and forth since the start of Day 1.
Now, I'll admit Hayles is doing a good job of showing signs of paying attention to the game. But... not sure I can see the point in a lot of his arguments. And Ronald definately has some good points about him at the start of the day. I mean, the reporter arguments for Hadley are things which I definately disagree with. (Rampant Wall of Texting, sure, but reporting not so much)
However, there's one or two quirks with Ronald that seem odd. His posts are, outside of his charge at Hayles, few and far between. And Day 2 has mostly been Hayles hunting. However, the thing that really strikes me as odd is his one real Day 1 post where he says
Other guy I don't like's the journalist type for... being a journalist. But really, somewhere near the start he's yapping about someone dropping a third vote afore everyone's had a chance to speak up and chiding 'em fer it. I dunno 'bout you, but I don't see why people oughta be waitin' fer everyone to speak to make votes here.
Sure, could be smokescreenin' some scum to let 'em lurk and jus' jump on a big case, but it's a non-tell to me, 'cuz we can't sit 'round twiddling our thumbs waiting for Russia to invade. Vaguely don't like your way of repeating what people've been saying.
Does read to anyone else like he's heading off arguments that he's smokescreening by trying to tell us all ahead of time that it's really just a null tell and we shouldn't pay attention to it?
While I'll admit that Ronald's case on Hayles is definately strong enough to notice (though not stronger than the Pietro case), the way they're playing out looks like this could also be a gambit of some kind to show they were at each other's throats with the way they're sitting on doomed trains and then moving over. (Granted, Mr. Ronald Dale hasn't actually moved his vote yet, he's at least stated an intention while things are still in doubt, so he's at least not sitting out the decision making. We'll see if he carries through if his case doesn't get traction.) But yeah, the coy nature of this makes me think there may well be something here and it isn't just Town/Town.
-
I'm also not happy at the sheer number of people willing to lynch me straight up tomorrow if I don't turn up dead.
Likewise the amount that Hellchameleon is getting free passes. I know Mage can be unstable and all, but he's played a straight up standard scum gambit so far this game, with a variation on being super-OMGUS.
The former is pretty much your own fault, misleading town and all.
I agree wholeheartedly with the latter though.
Just so I have this information later... Moses, would you say your investigation was cop-like? Y'know, acted like a cop investigation?
!!!!
Rolefish on top of the case name dropping earlier - how many scumtells must a man drop before he is scum?!
I think Mr. Hellsnake acts plenty guilty, and his most recent action pushes him right on back to the top of my pile. I said I didn't want to vote for him on account of he looked like the less DANGEROUS possible-Scum, not the less suspicious.
This is actually the most suspicious thing I've seen all game. Possibly for many games. If I didn't have such good reason to vote Snake, I would be urging everyone to lynch PH right now.
Anyway the case for Snake has been made enough, can we hurry up at lynch him already? Active scumtells = scum. Why is he getting away with this?
-
Ronald Dale;
Other guy I don't like's the journalist type for... being a journalist. But really, somewhere near the start he's yapping about someone dropping a third vote afore everyone's had a chance to speak up and chiding 'em fer it. I dunno 'bout you, but I don't see why people oughta be waitin' fer everyone to speak to make votes here.
Sure, could be smokescreenin' some scum to let 'em lurk and jus' jump on a big case, but it's a non-tell to me, 'cuz we can't sit 'round twiddling our thumbs waiting for Russia to invade. Vaguely don't like your way of repeating what people've been saying.
Does read to anyone else like he's heading off arguments that he's smokescreening by trying to tell us all ahead of time that it's really just a null tell and we shouldn't pay attention to it?
I'm saying Greaves' argumented at the time that placing a third vote 'fore everyone's shown up = bad.
I said I didn't see how it was bad - the only reason I see it as being bad to drop a third vote before everyone's voted is that the scum who hadn't voted yet can easily jump on a bandwagon case.
It's a non-tell because I simply disagree with the mafiaphilosophy behind it, which I reckon to be "wait for everyone to vote, then get down to srs bsns 3 votes", whereas I feel we shouldn't waste any of our time thumb-twiddling and waiting for people who hadn't checked in after a good few hours when there was productive stuff to be had.
Wasn't referring to myself.
-
Ronald Dale;
Journalist type and the journalist referred to Greaves, if that wasn't clear. See you talking about me and Hayles being inseperable, but I was talking 'bout Greaves there and not Hayles.
-
Just so I have this information later... Moses, would you say your investigation was cop-like? Y'know, acted like a cop investigation?
.
.
.
/me takes a good, long drink out of his bottle.
What.
##Unvote,##Vote: Bill Hellsnake
This is the scummiest damn thing I've seen all game. You have one shot to try and justify that dumbass shit, but frankly I don't think you can.
Eyes on Pietro ("Hurry up and lynch him already!) and Lyle, still, since I detect a hint of scum shipping out one of their own to be honest. Peyton's pontificatin' don't seem that scummy t' me right now, but I don' like it none the same.
Still need to get a read on Seamus but frankly unless Hellsnerk comes out with the best dang reason ever for this role fishin' I reckon I got 'til the next day anywho.
On last un before I git for a bit. Right now, Chad, you know mor'n I had 'bout the members o' the order. Alls I knew from what were Andrews and yer pa. Didn't know Hayles were a member 'til you told me.
-
Alright, going over stuff now. Noticed a few odd things about some people (just Ronald Dale for now), so will be posting my findings on a person-to-person basis. (No, not everybody is included, so don't worry)
Oh, Kyle Handley vote was pure pressure, only wanted to get information out of him.
##Unvote
Also, just before we get going on this thing: Yes, there is a reason for my semi-rolefishing. (I say "semi" because I'm just asking if what he did acted like a cop investigation, since I have more than enough reason to believe that crazy roles are crazy) Actually... might as well say it now, since I've got nothing to lose. I'm a miller (yes, I'm aware that this alone does absolutely nothing to help my case). So, y'know, if his investigation were like that of a cop's, I'd show up as anti-town. And if we could manage to decode what the heck it all means, that might actually give us a huge clue as to who/where we should be hunting. And when to turn our eyes from one side to the other. (As for what the 'sides' are? Well, that's what we gotta find out)
Anyway, on we go. First up, BarDale.
- Got my attention because, oddly enough, he makes absolutely no mention of the rolefishing.
- Also seems to completely ignore people like Peyton and Pietro who have made a few... questionable claims recently (covered below)
- Spends a lot of time defending himself, and really focuses his fire on Ethan.
- Dismisses Moses' slow-kill story entirely (which I also kinda doubt, thinking on it)
- Really, his day 2 play faces a fair bit of tunnel-vision (with an admission he's willing to switch to Pietro, decently early on)
- Oddly enough, hasn't switched to Pietro, despite people taking issue with his Ethan case (because otherwise, why would he continue to defend it, right?)
- Day 1 consists of... 2 posts. Hum.
- Begins by attacking both (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104398.html#msg104398) of the people without a vote in the jokevote phase, voting one and just prodding the other. Which, uhh, seems a little suspicious to me, but whatever, I'm willing to give it a pass since it's (I think) meant to be a push out of the joke phase
- Completely drops all suspicions and mentions of our friend Kyle here on Day 2. (Btw, I noticed we have a Handley and a Hadley. So, uhh... yeah. maybe referring to them by last names isn't such a great idea, those of us that have been?)
Summary: Mildly suspicious, not seeming scummy (yet). Will keep eye on him.
Pietro
- 2 posts today, first one briefly touching up on things, and then voting me for a lack of consistency in my unvoting Moses.
- His second post is almost entirely about "LYNCH HIM NAO" (even though I'd promised to get back to you guys after a while, which really just makes it seem like he wanted to get rid of me before I could get back. Also: Time is Town's BFF)
- Day 1 has him saying nothing new, although he says he does here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104633.html#msg104633) despite, uhh... yeah. It's short, you can read f'r yourself.
- Pietro has some inconsistency of his own; claims that he found the bulletproof claim fake because it had 'supposed usefulness' and that he 'rightfully rubbished it.' Inconsistency is that Ty hadn't claimed any usefulness from it, and the few that were claiming so actually made a good case for it. (Also, yeah, it's hard to not read what you said as "bulletproof is useless, let's rope 'im")
Side point: Before I forget to mention this, I am doing all of this with absolutely no regard to what others have said on any cases. Peyton and Pietro came to my attention because other people found them suspicious, and I wasn't sure why. So I decided to do my own investigation.
Summary: So far, uhh, seeming really scummy to me. Not gonna place a vote down until I'm through, but... wow. Not sure how I missed all that earlier.
Gonna post this now to avoid WoT'ing.
-------------------
Jack Daniels Ninja.
Nothin' to say on this. I probably should have just claimed miller right from the get-go, frankly, but hindsight is always 20/20. Oh, and no, I don't regret claiming miller. I have no reason to doubt the investigation itself, and anything to help us clear that up is good, is it not? Anyway, yeah. If you're still totally gung-ho to lynch me, let me know.
-
Now I knows yer full of shit, one hundred per-cent. My vote stays. Hang 'im from the ropes, boys, we got ourselves a scum.
-
Well, mayhaps not one hundred percent, but I ain't got a reason to trust the miller claim, and I got a dang good one to think he's full of it.
-
Seamus O'Malley
- Seems to enjoy doing a lot of prodding
- Apparently believes Pietro scummier than my rolefishing (said he'd hold back commentary on me until I'm looking worse than Giovanni)
- Apparently can't see that he had a flawed case on me Day 1, as even today has been saying he finds no reason for others to suspect him
- Makes some inaccurate assessments of how things went down yesterday; well, right answer, but wrong path. (votes weren't a reliable source of information for who was how suspicious yesterday, generally. Though yes, I was quite easily the second best target)
- Day has already been covered, really, aside from more poking and prodding
Summary: Suspicious, but not scummy. Seems very... to the side, which does worry me.
Peyton Hadley
- Gonna be right clear here, I was asking about the Report part of his night actions, not the... wait, how did you come to the conclusion I was talking about the visit? Ok, your response to Mr. Hargreaves' assessment is a little off here, buddy. Mind explaining that?
- Also mind explaining just where young Chad did his 'rolefishing?'
- Lots of... rambling. Seems to try and cover everything.
- Day 1 is... long. Mostly gonna go off of summary because it would take forever otherwise (still lots of rambling pre-report)
- Seemed to line things up nicely (outside of Kyle) for how things would go down today and yesterday, though that could be my imagination, upon reading the last line of his summary.
Summary: Seeming a little off, and will be looking at him (and Kyle) very intently if Pietro is town.
Chad Hutchins
- Day 2 is basically just trying to figure out flavour stuff, attacking Peyton and Kyle (and being alright with a Pietro lynch), and saying he believes certain people to be town.
- Uhh... seems to clear an awful lot of people, actually. Day 1 and 2. And if it were just a few less people, I'd suspect him of having prior knowledge and be edgy about it, but he actually reads fairly well (mostly from Day 2 performance, which involves some actual attacking)
- Makes the call for Callahan to roleclaim
Summary: A couple of things seem a little odd, and I want to see them as odd. Like the intentional third vote and saying "I don't believe x is scum" despite scummy actions (like, say, myself and Callahan), but I can't. He reads well enough that the third vote thing is peanuts, and he clears too many people (4, if I counted right, and 2 of them being incredibly suspicious) to make me believe he has any sort of definitive knowledge on the subject. So, really? Neutral, at worst.
Uhh... Chad. Would you happen to know who the god the Order worshipped is called?
Hargreaves will attract a further look at another time, too, as I'm not sure how I feel about him coming to the conclusion he did about my rolefishing. (Cop? Really?)
Oh, and if anybody has any information on an "Aorako," it'd be mighty appreciated.
----------------
Ninja'd by Daniels again. Alright, just gonna roleclaim now: I'm a Miller/Reviver. I look suspicious (bounty hunter lulz), hence the miller, and thanks to this magical little roach that crawled up my nose, I got some... powers. One of these is the ability to revive on the night of the New Moon, which would be... two nights from now. (Night 3) However, just how powerful the revival is will depend on... something. If it's full-powered, then I can revive somebody, save their powers, and if it's not, I can only let them talk for a day. I have this strange feeling that Aorako is related to my reviving, so... Oh, and the most important part: I'll know by tonight/tomorrow morning how powerful the revival is.
------------
Re-ninja'd. By Jack. Sigh.
And this reason is?
-
Right, I'm a bloody idiot. Completely forgot to ##Vote: Pietro Giovanni
L-3 is not a dangerous position, I know this seems OMGUS, at this point I don't care. He seems the most (immediately) scummy to me, given my re-reads.
-
Man, Hellsnake, you were fakin a pass the whole time? Why didn't you claim that right off the bat? Why didn't you claim that at the end of the last play clock, when you got man to man coverage on you day 1? You know if there's a defensive back out there they're gonna be wanting to investigate you!
Snakes alive I don't know what now. My gut still says dumb town seein all the other goin ons but I don't know if I can trust my gut no more cause that's a hell of a fumble. I mean a heck of a fumble. Sorry, Ma.
Well now that you're claimin miller you got anything else you wanna say? I'd like more lookin at Kyle still so I ain't movin my vote right yet but uh realistically speakin Hellsnake I think you are gonna snake in hell today now.
Well I just got ninja'd by that so uhhhhhhhhh I guess thats enough to not lynch you today anyhow. I guess.
Man what.
No, I don't know what the Order worships or even that they worshipped anything at all. All I got is Pop's notes on meetings and who was in it, it don't say what they did. I know they did somethin two weeks ago involvin Pop and I got strong flavor reasons to believe they did the same thing again the night Pop died involvin someone else, someone who is here in town with us and they may'a got some actual special power from it. I don't know what it is or if they're good or bad or other but it's just my lil flavor sidequest so I am askin about it.
-
The reason is that I'm a bloody miller. I highly doubt there are two miller roles in this game.
-
Well uh thanks for tellin us. I don't think I agree with you none on that point though Mr. Daniels.
I feel like I may have run some sort of "Mafia" games in a past life or somethin where puttin in two millers is exactly the sort of thing I'd do as a mod to discourage that kinda setup metagamin.
You two maybe wanna elaborate on how exactly your "milling" businesses work flavorwise?
-
Oh, mine works plenty fine. See, bein' a bounty hunter doesn't exactly earn the respect of others. Or their trust. And I imagine Jack's is that he's the town... He, uhh... He keeps the liquor industry running 'round here.
-
Well, y'd be wrong on that Hellsnake.
Chad, I done had a fallin' out with yer pa, back in April. 's why I stopped attendin' order meetin's and rituals. I jus' couldn't go through with 'em anymore. We done... we done seem some things, back in the war, an... an I didn't want nothin' to do with them anymore. The day he died, he called me to the Order lodge t' convince me to he'p him perform some big ceremony comin' up on All Hallow's Eve. We argued, and in the end I refused. The reasonin' behind my Miller status is the argument we had right afore his death makes me look mighty suspicious.
Nah, maybe yer right and there are two millers, but frankly I think the Hellsnake's full of shit. Too convenient to maybe have been investigated, found out on his scum status, and then claimin' Miller (o' course, with some extra incentive not t' lynch him by claimin' reviver, too) once his back's against the wall.
I dun by it fer a second.
-
Nuggets/Jazz halftime post. Dispensing with flavor.
Addressing Hellsnake's points about me:
Chad did his rolefishing here in his first post of the day (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104989.html#msg104989). At least, that's how I interpreted it; others seemed to see it differently.
- I am pretty sure Moses is town. Moses, please tell us exactly what happened to you in as much detail as you possibly can. Ask the mod how close you can get to quoting if possible.
It's not that bad, but combined with his (then) lurking, seemed worth prodding/noting. Chad's been much more involved since, albeit in ways I don't agree with.
Hargreaves is the one who assumed you were talking about the visit, saying he thought Moses thought you were implying you were a cop with possible slowkill attached to your power. Which... Hargreaves' interpretation made no sense to me, but Moses's reaction to your question also made no sense, and your original question only seemed to make sense as Scum!you. Assuming you were talking about the visit, though, Hargreaves' interpretation was off.
By "lining things up," do you mean the people I thought were scummy are widely thought to be scummy today?
Addressing the rest of the Hellsnake situation:
OK, that's... quite a roleclaim.
Since I think Pietro remains scummier than thou anyway, this claim is enough to move me back from thoughts of switching to you. It's difficult to believe, particularly because the "roach crawled up your nose" bit seems like dubious flavor and it's such a powerful ability, it's a classic "save my ass" claim.
BUT, Callahan's role was a double role. So is mine. As such, somebody turning up Miller/SOMETHING wouldn't surprise me. (With that said, if your role is accurate, it's the most powerful I've seen in this game.)
Incidentally, I think your assessments of Chad and Kyle today actually brought new information to the fore, so in spite of some seriously screwed up play I could actually buy you NOT being Scum, without being close to sold on it.
::ninja'd and the Nuggets are sucking it up anyway. Will address Jack's claim in next post.::
-
Jack, if you really don't believe me, then you've got my throat right by the rope anyway. You can wait a couple days to make sure of it, can't you?
/me suddenly stands up completely straight
Now then. Einčhver sðegja mér hvarð Aorako čer. ÐNÚNA! I have a mission to complete, after all, and it needs to be done áður Eðn Stjarčna čer Ðrétt.
----------
Ninja með Peyton.
I sincerely apologize for the whole mess þar smeð þú očg Hargreaves.
-
Just letting everyone know that I am alive, reading the thread right now, will post in a couple hours and will now have proper time to devote to the game, and apologise for the otherwise lurking to everyone.
-
Time for me to roleclaim, too, I think, because it may be VERY relevant right now.
I am a Bulletproof Bodyguard. Bulletproof by way of casting the flesh ward spell, a bodyguard by way of my dark secret and the way it propels me to defend others from the Mythos.
The Scum could confirm this if they were inclined to give us a hand, because I'm the person who was attacked on Night 1.
So "having duplicate roles" could be not only true, but REALLY IMPORTANT.
Oh, and while we're at it? I'm also the person who visited Moses on Night 1. Bodyguard'ed him because he seemed like Town's MVP. So barring something in my power that I don't know about, his slow-kill, if it exists, is NOT because of his visitor.
Meanwhile Hellsnake seems to be going mad on us? Or transforming into something hideous?
-
::)whatevers I don't need to explain myself anymore heil Cthulhu ::)
Are you for real?
-
Ég sé jafnvel óhroða hefur gleymt hvernig á að tala Sumerian. Hvílík skömm.
Hafa ekkert að hræðast, því að ég er ekki að breyta í neinu, einungis að uppfylla hlutverk mitt.
/me mutters a bit to himself, then gets lost in thought for a few moments
Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes. Well, it would appear that we have another little contradiction. Moses is convinced that his possible slow-kill came from--waaaaait a second. Nobody else say anything on the matter, I want Peyton's pure testimony here. Tell me more about you 'protecting others from the Mythos.' As much as you feel comfortable sharing.
((Side note: The random language is all flavour, and thrown in for fluff. Please don't take it seriously))
-
Nah goddarn it, I roleclaimed for a dang reason. Nobody else roleclaim unless you have to. ((I really don't want to see a repeat of Meme mafia where town Role claimed all their roles and gave scum quite the helping hand. Holy crap why do I even have to EXPLAIN that.))
-
Time for a brief rules note, because I'm not liking the direction some of these posts have been heading. This is important. Please read.
I have noted in the rules that I will BS on command for scum (or anyone if they need help lying), what I feel to be a necessary rule to prevent metagaming based off of who is familiar with the setting and who is not. For that matter, I am also happy to provide "extra background" for players who want some more details for their backstories. Both these are mostly a matter of flavor. I will not suggest roles to the scum, for example. I will, however, provide a "flavor" explanation behind "I want to claim vig / doc / tracker / etc.," and provide plausible fake flavor behind what non-scum activities they could have been up to. This may include many flavor details about said role, but not the "general idea" of it.
Additionally, I've chatted with some of you over IRC and PM (including, obviously, the scum team), sometimes over random stuff, sometimes over mafia in general, sometimes over the game but not related to night actions / flavor revelations. Any of these communications never happened. I understand there may have been some confusion here, but this is a different tier than "background flavor." You are free, of course, to claim "The Mod said I'm Town! It's in my Role PM!" But please do not discuss other communications. I think people have been taking this a little too far, as it stands, invoking the Mod more than I'm comfortable with. I do not want to have to do something drastic such as curtail side communication with players that is not strictly related to rules questions.
I don't think this has become a huge problem, but like I said, I don't like the direction this seems to be headed, whether it be over-enthusiastic scum taking advantage of my offer and throwing my name around freely or over-enthusiastic town reporting conversations. I do -not- want meta based on this to override the game. If you feel the need to invoke me personally, or aren't sure whether a comment is "side conversation" or "night action result," consider sending the post to me to check over first.
-
"I don't see much reason not to tell you folks, on account of you've all seen SOMETHING here."
"My tale begins four years ago... I was the best damned actor you ever saw off Broadway. Only reason I didn't own the stage in New York is on account of Yankee bias against a man from Dixie - any critic with half a brain will tell you so. But I digress. Four years ago..."
::Peyton shudders.::
"There was a play. Director found it... God knows where. Called 'The King in Yellow.' I played the title role. Was SUPPOSED to play it. But it was - WRONG. Every rehersal we had, folks got more into their characters than I'd ever seen 'em. Some weren't the best actors I ever played alongside, but damned if they didn't inhabit THOSE characters. Or maybe it was the other way 'round."
"On the last dress rehersal, it was like, for the hours of the play, I WAS the King in Yellow. Like IT - for it were no man, not as we know 'em - was ME. I... couldn't take it."
"Just before opening night, I threw myself off the stage. Broke my leg. Ironic, ain't it? 'Break a leg,' they always say. Well doin' it for real saved my life. Not a single soul walked out of that theater on opening night, when the King in Yellow played and Aldebaran was in the sky. To this day, I don't know what happened in there, not exactly, but I heard... enough. I knew it in my bones, broken or no."
((FWIW, this background is my (Bobbin Cranbud/Joshua Cole)'s creation for a tabletop Call of Cthulhu game. I thought it would be fun for Mafia, too. Snowfire only took over from this point on, although what he came up with mostly parallels what I actually did with the character.))
"Ever since, I been hunting things like this. I fell in with some folks who poked their noses into this stuff, solved - resolved, anyway - a few cases in Arkham country, and then I heard about this here. After what happened to me, what I allowed to happen to the rest of my troupe - I can't stand to see another soul end up like they did."
"And now I've gone and used one of those secrets we dug up, putting down that unseen THING in the hills."
::Peyton sinks into a chair by the bar and takes a long pull from his bottle of liquor.::
::He looks up, hollow-eyed and, and spits,::
"That satisfy you, bounty hunter?"
((Game mechanically, I pick a person and act as a bodyguard. Since I was bulletproof, I figured, why not? Isn't it Doc+? On the flip side, the Mod did tell me some nightkills might get through my resistance, so if MOSES had been attacked and I blocked it, I'd think that was the source of the slowkill. But the Mod was very clear that I was the target last night.))
::ninja'd by Jack Daniels::
((I don't think everybody should roleclaim, but I also did for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON - because you were saying duplicate Town roles were unbelievable, and I already KNOW we had duplicate Town roles.))
::ninja'd by our good Mod::
((Snow, I assume I'm the guilty party here? Very sorry if I went too far, and it will not happen again.))
-
Snow.
REQUESTING PERMISSION TO EDIT MY POST TO REMOVE THE OFFENDING LINE.
Those who've seen can't unsee, but at least it will prevent it from further contaminating the game with Meta.
-
((Snow, I assume I'm the guilty party here? Very sorry if I went too far, and it will not happen again.))
In this case, yes. In fact, check your PMs. You have permission to edit your previous post.
For reference, since this way there isn't a split behind people who saw your post before and after the edit (if you do so): Peyton claimed that I said that figuring out the role setup would be helpful to town. This is true, I did say that (whether in PM, in scumchat, or wherever), he's not lying, and I don't want to invite meta based on whether this is true or not. I consider this a fairly harmless statement to bring up, I just don't want to set a precedent where it's okay to quote me on unrelated matters.
-
OK, edited. My post works fine just deleting those lines.
My apologies once again.
-
And that's the whole story? I'm sorry to've brought up memories of the play; I was mostly asking 'bout last night. Viltu fá smá meira að drekka?
-
Oh, Kyle Handley vote was pure pressure, only wanted to get information out of him.
Going back over the recent stuff since the Role spec/declarations sort of took it over and I'm in a post-Nuggets cock-up funk, this leaped out at me.
::facepalm::
While your Miller claim is actually somewhat plausible to me, this right here? Is terrible. You mean you didn't ACTUALLY think it was Scummy for Kyle to drop his controversial Day 1 case like a hot potato for no apparent reason and go off after a seemingly soft target at the start of Day 2? I don't see any reason why this ceased to be suspicious.
As I explained to Chad when he seemed to think I wasn't on Kyle's case, at the time of my big "state of the game report," I ranked him either second or third after Pietro and possibly you.
His two subsequent (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105031.html#msg105031) posts (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105077.html#msg105077) make an effort to explain his position more clearly and bring up some other stuff, but don't make me think much more highly of him. They don't seem to add much besides Bad Play Is No Excuse which... does that really need to be said?
Where does that place him on my Scumdar now? Signs are hazy, check back later. ;-) Lower than Pietro, lower than you, possibly lower than Ethan (who came out swinging at me aggressively, and as far as I can tell badly, on the day after Scum tried and failed to nightkill me).
My point is, dropping Ethan for Pietro is not a move I disagree with... because if I did, I'd have probably done the opposite earlier today.
Doing it because your original vote was "pure pressure?" That's nowhere close to OK and makes no. Especially since AFAICT it comes BEFORE you actually do your readthrough of the topic, not just in your post but in when you made the decision? That implies you didn't have a better target to jump to until AFTER your readthrough, and the only reason to jump OFF of Kyle was if you considered him solidly town at that point.
Did you?
::Ninja'd by the snake his own self::
::Peyton nods, a little shakily, and waves off the bounty hunter's apology.::
"That's my whole story; I checked out the old Unseen Wisdom lodge ((this was provided flavor)) and looked in to make sure Mr. Bike was safe ((my night action)). Some time during the night ((My PM did not specify what I was doing at the time)) I got attacked, but a spell I learned from one of my previous investigations gave the attacker a right good surprise. The lunatic who jumped me didn't seem to be after Mr. Bike ((PM did specify this)), but me."
::Peyton holds up his hand.::
"My skin ain't in the best of shape after that spell, as you can see, but... better that than dead in a ditch, and all of you not so much as knowing it."
((Skin stuff, breadcrumbed in my first post of the day (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104933.html#msg104933), is due to flesh ward flavor and is my invention, not from my role PM.))
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That should read "dropping Kyle/Sopko for Pietro," not "dropping Ethan for Pietro."
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Well, Peyton, I only saw one lil sentence on Kyle in a big post with paragraphs about other people, so kindly forgive a kid for not takin that as "clear second place definitely on his case" material. Weird day and I ain't know what's what anymore.
I am really not likin how Mr. Hellsnake has done gone stopped sayin anything useful. One would expect a good man to be pushin his case for who he thinks the culprits are after droppin a claim like that to save himself. Funny how I liked him so much this mornin but now it's like he's goin out of his way to push my buttons. But... hm.
Anyhow it's just been the four or five of us talkin here tonight so... not a lot changin on Pietro and Handley's cases. Hadley (not to be confused with Handley) does read a bit better to me on gettin a feel for his style some more.
-
Oh and since it didn't get answered, Mr. Hellsnake...
- There any more to your miller-ness than "Bounty hunters look suspicious"?
- I understand people not claimin miller at the start of the game, even though a lotta good men would argue it's the right thing to do. But why didn't you claim it at the end of day 1 when you had heat and knew you'd be a likely cop target? (and if the answer is "I weren't around/didn't want to get turbolynched," then why not early today when you got heat again? Savin the claim until AFTER someone starts talkin about maybe investigating you with something that may be a cop power is just about the worst thing you can do, ain't it?)
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Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [5]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake
Bill Hellsnake [3]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [2]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [1]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews
Mage / Bill Hellsnake: You forgot to unvote in your vote. I've assumed an unvote this time, please remember next time, and note that I'd be enforcing that rule more strictly if this were LYLO.
There are 15 hours left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Looks like I completely misread the Hellsnake/Bike interaction.
O'Malley: Your case on Hellsnake seemed remarkably bad - jokevote phase has barely ended, no-one's really been saying much of consequence, and you vote for saying a lot without really contributing goes on the one guy who's actually made a genuine insight.
Now that's very early on, but since then you've... I'm really having to rack my brains here, which is scummy in itself. You poked at Bike when he needed poking (again very early on), which counts for something, but I can't remember any real contributions after that. this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104689.html#msg104689) is pure defence, the two shortly after it make true but obvious points. Though now that I look back I see an actual insight on Pietro in here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104716.html#msg104716), it's just buried in a dense mass of nothing. Again with your latest post post I'm replying to; feels like a lot've fluff. While you standing up and saying why you disagree with some cases is something, what we really need is attack, and you've got nothing there bar a poke at Hutchins that's been made plenty've times already.
I feel better than I did about you, having now seen your reasoning against Pietro early on, but even so: you've not done a whole lot that's memorable, and your most memorable, original contribution was that case on Hellsnake which seemed very wrong.
Hutchins seems to be defending not posting often on the grounds that he gave an opinion when he did; if that were how it worked, we'd all say what we thought at the start of the day, cast our votes and then head off for some golf. Peyton may've reached the same conclusions as you at the start, but if he's also contributing on the rest of the day's events as they come up, I'm inclined to say he looks better than you do. (And sure, he's waffley, I'd prefer a lot more concise, but as long as his posts have actual content it doesn't really matter how long it takes to say it).
Greaves: If Bike is scum, he's spinning up this claim and tomorrow he'll just spin more - he's already tried to say we shouldn't lynch him straight off if he's alive tomorrow. We're never going to get absolute proof of his alignment while he's alive (even if we had a copclaim that could be faked, he could claim miller, etc.), so if we think he's scum, we should be stringing him up right away. I have plenty of issue with Handley (not to mention I don't think Bike is scum), but on this front he's dead right.
Dale, while he's keeping out of the spotlight, is making sense to me, and I don't think there's any substance to O'Malley's attack on his phrasing. Will try and have a reread of him just in case, but I'm not putting that on top priority right now.
This post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105181.html#msg105181) from Pietro comes just before everything kicks off, and I'm not at all happy with it. "the case for Snake has been made enough, can we hurry up at lynch him already? Active scumtells = scum. Why is he getting away with this?" seems an emotional appeal, forcefully pushing a case he's done very little to actually make. If the other stuff hadn't come up I'd be voting Pietro (seems to have lost his Giovanni, which is why I couldn't find his post earlier) right now.
Posting because it's already very long and this is a good logical divide. Will make a second post covering everything after the roleclaim, and then some conclusions; apologies for the length.
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What I don't even.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105220.html#msg105220
Hellsnake lists off a bunch of 'cases'; let's look at some of his reasons for finding people scummy:
- Ignoring Petro
- Not voting for Petro
- Not finding Petro scummy
(What? Not only do they rely on the supposition that I'm scum, he's subliminally painting me scum instead of making arguments about the people he's supposedly writing about!)
His case on me has zero actual substance and just rides on what others have said. It's an excuse to say "I also find Petro really scummy!"
Then he continues with a bunch of fabricated cases on other people so it doesn't look like he just OMGUSed me, but they're obviously flimsy summaries at best.
I don't believe his claim at all. The delay till day 3 is just too circumstantially suspect;
Jack, if you really don't believe me, then you've got my throat right by the rope anyway. You can wait a couple days to make sure of it, can't you?
typical bloody scum ploy to survive a little longer, when we could already be in LYLO for all we know. The rule is never suffer scum to live.
On top of that we have a miller counter-claim, and it's a plain suspect claim.
Obviously it benefits my suvival to have people vote Hellsnake but come on, so many scumtells vs. me being quiet.
If you're online then wuld you kindly vote Hellsnake, or tell me your rebuttal for why otherwise.
Whoa Hargreaves, what a ninja. Will read in a sec.
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On top of that we have a miller counter-claim, and it's a plain suspect claim.
By that I mean that Hellsnake's miller claim is suspect because of timing - the counter claim isn't suspicious, but it makes the legitimacy of Hellsnake's claim less likely.
Samuel, I've always been Pietro.
And I just noticed I did spell my name wrong in my previous post. That's what I get fo' dropping out of school to join la famille.
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So, I haven't actually read everything through yet, but the one thing that stuck out like an obvious misplaced puzzle piece was the double miller claim.
Because, you know, that would very neatly solve the information I have. From the inside there are actually four non-town roles, but looking in from the outside it seems like there are five or six. Either left as five or six so there could be no certainty, or because there's also a godfather.
Scum could have come together to cook this up by now, so it's hardly enough to clear or anything, but it's major food for thought. It also resolves the sticking point of six non-town players by any measure sounding like too many.
That however is not why I thought the Hellgazelle had asked me the question in the first place (which I'd figured had told me exactly what role he had and what he'd done with it, which would have had to be town), so lol wut.
Peyton: well, er, thank you. Would have rather you told us that you'd been attacked right at the start of the day, but I'm still inclined to believe it now. I've already talked about the flavour I received last night. Does any of it make sense to you (talking with people and then making them forget, giving them dark visions, etc. etc.), or is it all the work of another visitor? Any hint in your flavour that there might be unknown dark consequences to the power, even?
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"Kyle Handley vote was pure pressure, only wanted to get information out of him" <- Arrgh arrgh arrgh. That is Not Right (and pisses me off more for coming just after I'd decided I was happy voting Pietro). As Hadley (does anyone else object to the use of surnames? I like it just for flavour, but I can see the potential for confusion) said, please clarify: why did you want information from him in particular? And more importantly, do you not believe the arguments you made against him?
The miller claims actually make sense; if there are four scum and two millers that would fit nicely with the "four from the inside, six from the outside". (On the other hand, if there might be five... yeah). Four may be a little on the high side, but shrug; maybe we've got some killer (hah) town roles. I think at this point we want any other miller to speak up (on that fact, not on their full role), though don't take my word alone for it.
Dammit, there's no way one can really ignore this: if the almighty himself says figuring out the role setup would be helpful to town, then we should darn well be trying to figure out the role setup. I'll try and play as if it weren't there, but this certainly won't do my meta-reasoning tendencies any good (and I would point out for the record that said tendencies put me on the right people in the previous game, much as they also got me mislynched).
I'd better take a full reread of Dale, and more generally I want to have a close look at Hellsnake's big posts. This has taken a lot longer than I expected, though, and I'm about to head away for the weekend; while I might find a computer on my travels (and there's a very good chance I'll be able to at least make a quickpost once I've finished packing just before I leave), it's possible you won't hear from me for 36 hours. Very brief conclusions from the last post: O'Malley looks slightly better than before, but not enough to shift his relative position. Hutchins and Dale join Hadley in the "very slightly scummy side of neutral" bucket; Hutchins then shifts further down with the revelation that his big flavour-investigation was just flavour. Might put him above O'Malley actually, I haven't time to think that through fully. Pietro shifts out to clear #1 bad guy on that horrible phrase I quoted, and on that post being the best contribution he could give us. I'm now looking at Pietro > Handley > O'Malley ~ Hutchins , with lurkers ignored (I haven't time to come to a position on Kolmogorothingy, especially since we don't have his substantial post yet, and Andrews is looking like a modkill at this stage) and everyone not mentioned not qualifying as scummy (in particular, while Dale is slightly bad I'm not seeing a case on him yet).
While I want to look over Hellsnake, and he's got things to answer for, I didn't think he was outright scummy before the big claim explosion, and unlike Bike he's made a firm claim that he can't back away from. If he doesn't revive anyone, we lynch him, plain and simple (Hellsnake: I assume you have no objection to this?).
##Unvote, ##Vote: Pietro.
Oh dear, Pietro himself ninjas, but I really must post this at this point. Will do my best to look again before I go, but can't promise anything.
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Specifically 'non-town', Sam. If'n this is the solution to the riddle it seems like, I'd figure three scum and one ITP to be more likely than four scum. Not that I'd be tryin' to push this near so far so early, but the shoe does fit.
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Bah screw it, it annoys me that Samuel Hargreaves feels he can put down a vote on me without any reasons, putting me to L-2. And neither he nor Bike seem willing to acknowledge any argument I make against Hellsnake. CBF anymore.
I'm a cop. I investigated Hellsnake last night, scum return. I've been lurking because I'm a town power-role duh.
Only proviso is that I'm not sure I'm a sane cop. Flavour seems to indicate otherwise. So if you're also a cop, don't counter claim!
You'll see that my claim is consistent with my claim and tunnelling of Hellsnake. I investigated him after his dodgy performance yesterday.
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Quick as possible because I'm dead on my feet here, but I want to get this out since Pietro is in quicklynch range and the day might not go to deadline.
Moses: No, none of the flavor you posted makes sense to me. My bodyguarding isn't even a supernatural power as far as I can tell. The bulletproof part was called out as supernatural (casting flesh ward; anyone who's played CoC or Arkham Horror probably knows how it works :) ), but the method by which I bodyguard people wasn't beyond I take hits for others, and live through them with my spell.
If somebody did slowkill you, I guess that could be a type of kill I couldn't block, though. Maybe I can only block non-magical attacks or something. The only alternative explanation (aside from one of us lying, obviously) is that I'm an unwitting vessel for Hastur because of the play and he kills those I try to protect? It is VERY hard to believe this wouldn't even be hinted at in either of my PMs, though, and it wasn't.
As for why I didn't claim about being the target of the kill and bodyguarding you immediately? Initially I didn't want to explain how I survived right after another Bulletproof townie got lynched. Notice the "two Millers!" reaction Hellsnake's claim initially drew? That. (Especially when I was the first vote on the lynched BP Townie!) Then you came out with your slowkill worries and I was even more reluctant to say what happened the night before. To me it seemed better to wait and see what was scared up - such as pulling Aggro from Ethan, for instance.
Pietro: If I wanted to suffer Scum to live, I'd be voting for someone OTHER than you. Your apparent desperation to quicklynch Hellsnake would alone be enough for me to think he was non-Scum, if I hadn't previously assumed it was a bussing job. You've still yet to show one single argument that isn't either a load of bull or repeating someone else to jump on an "easy" train.
If we had no other Scummy-looking people to hunt, I would be disinclined to let Hellsnake go. But we do, starting with you. I'd certainly want to poke my nose into Kyle/Sopko and Ethan, both of whom have given me serious Scumtells, before going after someone with an easily provable claim like Hellsnake's.
And seriously, "we could already be in LYLO?" Please. We had Mod confirmation in the very last votecount that this isn't LYLO.
The only reason I would vote Hellsnake over you is if I had reason to believe he had a very powerful Scum power role - and I've been given no such reason.
Chad: Reread the post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105068.html#msg105068) you're talking about. I devoted a whole section to Kyle. This is the second time I've pointed this out, please reread it if it still concerns you.
If we are going to let Hellsnake either revive or not - and with another, at least as strong, Scum candidate, I believe we should - critiquing his play at this point is pretty much useless, IMO. This also goes for:
Sam: 4 Scum would not surprise me in light of just the claimed Town roles so far. I function almost like an invulnerable Doctor, and if Hellsnake is telling the truth he's arguably even MORE powerful because he could, in theory, get us back a confirmed Townie. (Of course, Raiser CAN be a Scum role, albeit a very shitty/difficult one.)
About the rest of your post, see above about the big Hellsnake reread. if your time is short spend it on people who haven't given us an on/off switch for whether they're lying or not.
OK, that's all I can do tonight. It's 4am and I'm probably rambling.
IN GENERAL: Please, please, please nobody put Pietro at -1 before close to deadline! I don't want to give Kolmogorov an excuse to be all "oh, I was going to post the next day but you ended early" (hopefully in awesome Russian mad scientist flavor, but still! :D), and if Pietro is indeed Scum he might selfhammer to end the day before we're finished hashing stuff out. (I'm less worried about another Scumhammer because it should be little more than a 1/1 trade since that's obviously a bad move.)
I *should* be back by deadline, so see you all in my AM, Marbury's evening!
::Ninja'd by Pietro::
Can't think about this tonight except to say Cop or Scum, Sane or Mad, you're STILL LYING. Hargreaves gives his reason: your push to quicklynch Hellsnake. Even if you think that's a bad reason, it IS a reason.
Nonetheless I'll:
##UNVOTE Pietro Giovanni
To make sure there's a chance to talk about this in the morning.
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Last thing.
Pietro:
Insane cop.
Investigated a claimed Miller, who is either a Miller or lying Scum.
Would return Town.
So if you're insane, you're lying.
AGAIN.
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+Paranoid*?
Wilful omission?
Really want me mislynched Hadley?
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I think... I think I have to do this.
##Unvote
Alright, starters. Partial claim time. I'm also a miller.
So, why am I a Miller? Funny story, I'm here from the city not to do odd jobs, but rather, an odd job. See, I'm in training to be a catholic priest. Well, guess I should say, was. Doubt they'll want me back now, and not sure I'd ever want to. Y'see, one day in my training, I overheard my superiors talking with some strange visitors. Turns out they worked for this group called Sapientes Gladio that occasionally works with the church. Using the Darkness against the Darkness to protect the Light, or something else like that. And from the sounds of it, they felt there was some threat here in Maybury, so they were going to come over and just kill whoever they felt needed killing until they felt the place was safe. Didn't matter who, didn't matter how many. They'd drench this place in blood, until they were done, even if they had to wipe it off the map.
I... well... I couldn't just let them do this. So, I busted into their stuff to learn what I could and then came over here to stop 'em. Turns out I didn't get anything that tells me a thing about what they're planning. However, I did get my hands on one of their relics. Of course, because I'm from the church, and I'm using one of their tools, I look like one of 'em to people who look for that kind of stuff.
So yeah, that's my story. Hopefully this'll help Town in piecing together what the hell is going on here.
Now, the Hellsnake was... not necessarily looking good. But now I'm really wondering about him. That kinda power makes me wonder what he's up to. Moreover, some of the really sketchy things he was saying that weren't actually so bad in this circumstance, well...
Specifically, the rolefish. The way it played out just screamed I want an excuse to claim miller when he told the whole story. And while I could buy it when he first made it (Bike made it sound like the Mistaken Town option simply wasn't, so he's either Town about to die, or lying scum, and both of those you want to get as much info out of as possible, if only so it either doesn't die with 'em, or so it hold's 'em tight so they can't change their tale later), he apparently didn't believe Bike was dying when he asked. And now we've got Payton saying he's got reason to think Bike's not dying at all. So... yeah. Strike the first.
Not to mention, I think Bike's one of the people I'm willing to trust. Which means that if this story of his does refer to non-town and millers, then we've got one too many. And if that's true, then while I do have a bone or two to pick with Daniels, it's nothing compared to what I've got on you.
Now, I'm still suspicious of Pietro. Especially since there's a huge difference between laying low and what he's doing. But, between his claimed roll and how much worse you just got Hellotter, I'm thinking that the choice is clear.
##Vote: Hellsnake
Also, Peyton. I noticed that our good friend Pietro said he thought he might be insane. But you're acting like you know. What's up with that?
It's unlikely I'm gonna get any more posts in before the day is done. So, here's hoping things end well.
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I've got a little longer than I thought, but not long. As Hadley has said, I've given my reasons; you've been looking bad all day due to the voteshift timing yesterday and general low content; you'll recall that my only reason for voting Handley over you was "active lurking worse than passive". And then you do post, and it's to make a frantic, emotional "why haven't people lynched today's other voteleader already", and that tipped it.
"typical bloody scum ploy to survive a little longer" goes right back at you. While being a cop would make the "why on earth isn't anyone else realising this guy is obviously scum" a tiny bit more reasonable... no, particularly since you feel the need to tell us this (it sounds like your reason for giving us the result is a lot more to justify your own behaviour than because you actually want us to act on it). And unlike Snake, who's made a specific commitment (which, while it gets him a few days' grace, also means no power on earth will save him if nothing turns up when he's said it should), you're trying to give yourself as much wiggle room in your claim as possible; you claim flavour suggests you're not sane (while carefully not committing either way), and then gotcha Hadley when he (quite reasonably) interprets that as you claiming to be insane. Heck, I'm not sure I even think that's a gotcha; your mention of paranoid now can equally read as clutching at straws now that Peyton's seen the big hole in your argument. And where does the the "I'm not sure if I'm insane don't counter-claim" come from? Two cops is just as likely or unlikely as it always was, whether or not they're sane. No, you're just trying to avoid any real cops counter-claiming to cover your own ass, just like with everything else you've said.
Vote stays.
Oh god O'Malley ninja millerclaim what. Haven't time to think about this. I'm not worried about Pietro being quickhammered given the unvotes he's picked up (and I was dead certain he was the best place for my vote up until 30 seconds ago), so I won't be moving my vote. I'll do my best to read properly and post again once I've got where I'm going, which'll be in a few hours.
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Hahahahaha. Oh wow. Oh wow oh wow oh wow.
I was going to hit Pietro for an awfully convenient cop claim.
Oh but man now three millers what.
Helleel got slack from me for what I picked up as accidentally dropping information that I could work out his role from in a manner that just clearly wasn't a deliberate trap. Then it turned out that he wasn't the role I thought he was (for what it's worth now that it clearly doesn't matter - I figured he'd only ask that question as a tracker/watcher who had seen/not seen me act on someone during night 1, and was looking to see if he could trip me up), but that was balanced by it clicking neatly in with an emerging theory regarding my information. Oh but now we have too many miller for that, and though maybe the information doesn't indicate millers or anything, it's either right and hence I want to be picking the worst of the bunch, or it's wrong and I shouldn't be giving Hellmackerel any credit by it.
Jack I trust very strongly on his claim, if some of the attached sentiments (primarily 'there can't be two millers') are misplaced. Vague potential for a gambit with Seamus that I wouldn't put past him in a hurry, but it's not even vaguely in the same league as the entirety of the Hellfalcon's actions from the start through to now.
Pietro's claim still stinks to high hills. I want them both lynched today. I'd even stay on him now so that the whole thing doesn't risk just unbalance into a landslide on the Hellbarracuda, but after being on him so much for so long, like hell am I missing out on being on this train now. Only thing I'm not so hot on is how they're on each other at the moment. Sure, there's always bussing, but the pieces don't connect as neatly as I'd like.
##Unvote: Pietro Giovanni
##Vote: William Hellsnake
Assuming I do die (even with Peyton's protection, I'm still pretty sure there's a slow kill about to activate on me), consider my vote for day 3 to be on whichever of them doesn't get lynched today.
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Oh, didn't spot the Hellelephant's full claim. Which feels like even more bull. If I'm trusting Peyton's claim of bulletproof bodyguard (know if you die on protection? Because otherwise uh, it does sound overpowered, dependent on what scum have to counter it), then this reviver business sounds ridiculous. Sounds ridiculous on its own, really.
Pretty sure the ancient cockroach up the nose trick is supposed to involve you getting mind-controlled by the ancient cockroach, if I remember correctly, but I guess in this game that could still be town. Not sure how it's supposed to give you resurrection powers, but maybe I just don't know the flavour well enough.
Anyhow, don't buy it enough to give him the time to step in the hole on his own. May mean I should reconsider the balance of the preferred order between him and Pietro, though.
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Ronald Dale;
I'll come right out 'n say it. I was told at the start of the game there's a Godfather or Godfather variant on the Mafia side. I alluded to this on Day 1 saying there was definitely an innocent-looking mastermind behind these cases, but seems I oughta just come out straight'n say it.
All the Miller claiming makes my head hurt and I don't know who to believe here anymore.
Not sure what I think of Pietro's claim either. Copclaims always make me a little nervous to lynch.
Eh, screw it.
##UNVOTE: Ethan Hayles
##VOTE: Pietro Giovanni
"Not sure I'm sane so don't counter-copclaim"? If you're a towncop why the hell would you think there's another cop?
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Gee I dunno, because there's two or three millers already?
Not sure what I think of Pietro's claim either. Copclaims always make me a little nervous to lynch.
Eh, screw it.
I miss the good old days when people listed valid reasons for placing votes. Reasons which can be tied down after the mislynch flips town. I worry for you guys.
-
((Will try to be in character from now on, although I'm gonna drop the accent completely.))
...Wh-what? I was just taking a small nap. So, what in tarnation we got here then? We got ourselves an unconfirmed-sanity cop claim, 3 potential millers when it's likely there are two at most, and... man, this just ain't a nice field for us to be working in.
I think it's pretty safe to be assuming that one of Snake, Jack and Seamus is lying. Two Millers seems a little harsh, but three? Add in Moses' works from the start of the day and it's fairly clear we got one scum in there. Obvious choice is Snake for a weak Day One, followed by a "pure pressure vote" ((>_>)) and then... he comes out with the claim, a proper job of an argument, and then... abandons the good arguing to post nothing but flavour for a few posts. I'm definitely not thinking this is just an unhelpful citizen now. ((but argh this is all so familiar, what with Ty Day 1. >_<))
Then we get Pietro's claim of "Well, I might be insane, the flavour implies it but I don't know." From what he's said, there's no reason to think he's insane - as Hadley (Anyone got a problem with me still using surnames?) said, whether he's Miller or killer, he'll still show up as such, so you seein' him as being in the red doesn't even suggest you might be insane. With that, it just seems like a cover for if you pick out the wrong person on a later date.
Hadley, on t'other hand, seems a lot better after his contributions to this whole discussion. Still wish you wouldn't use so many words to say whatcha gotta say, but I can't fault what yer saying.
So, like e'eryone else, I'm down to Pietro and Snake. Pietro's spent way too much time lurking, his claim just seems too convenient, what with being based on information already given to us and the added Insane/Paranoid cover. I'd definitely want t'see him go before 'Snake today, and since they're on 4 and 5 votes respectively...
##Unvote, Vote: Pietro
And that evens the scores at 5 votes each.
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Ronald Dale;
Told you before I was happy to switch to you, listed reasons. Nothing's changed - I doubt your copclaim. If you're a Cop you must be sane or paranoid, given you saw a Miller return as scum. And yet you express worry that someone might counter-copclaim you.
Don't particularly trust the Miller claims completely either - this'd imply there's four people at least whose results are false.
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Ronald Dale;
Four people whose cop results would turn up false, I mean.
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Oh. Huh. Man. I coulda sworn I've never seen that paragraph in Peyton's post before. Uh. Sorry, really don't know how that happened then.
We got more things to worry about now anyway with half the game decidin to claim. I gotta say Pietro makes a lot more sense and comes across a lot more genuine here than Hellsnake did, particularly with pointing out that people are now votin him just to vote him (and I'm no exception myself with the "I guess he's generically scummy" earlier today, yeah), so if it's between those two?
##Unvote: Kyle Handley
##Vote: Bill Hellsnake
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*sigh* Alright, look. I'm gonna lay out my entire game plan (that's gone unexplained so far).
I voted Kyle for pressure to get the information out of him on whether or not he's the slow-killer. I believe the slow-killer to be third party, and I believe Kyle to be the slow-killer.
My posts last night weren't entirely flavour; I was investigating the little thing about Peyton and Moses, wherein Peyton protects Moses, yet doesn't seem to be the one who visited him last night and gave him all that depression. If Peyton had been the one to give Moses the depression, I would've (still) voted for Pietro today, and then Kyle tomorrow.
I've never been a miller before, and figured that claiming it outright would've just gotten me quick-lynched (lul, guess what?). I decided to change my mind (admittedly in the wrong order) when Moses gave us his story. I figured it would help us catch scum, and oh look.
Now for other stuff (since I believe that's all?)
I'm really not certain why people are so hellbent on lynching me today. It sounds like you guys've narrowed it down to Pietro and me, and you think BOTH of us are scum. What do you possibly gain from killing the CLAIMED REVIVER before the claimed cop. It's made even more baffling, considering the cop claim was quite sketchy, and this has been pointed out a couple times now. Honestly, this is outright stupid. I will vote MYSELF if I don't revive somebody day 3, since I'm guaranteed to be able to do something. Like, honestly, what do you get from lynching me today instead of waiting 'till later? Also made suspect is that the guy who's trying to super-push my lynch made a paranoia cry of "LYLO."
Now, tomorrow I'm going to be voting for Seamus, personally, (and you can hold me to this) since obviously one of the miller claims is bull. I know mine isn't, and between Jack and Seamus, Jack had nothing to gain from claiming it. He thought I was full of it because he doubted there were two millers, it wasn't game-breaking or anything, hurray. Seamus, however, spends his entire post attacking me, trying to paint me as bad as possible (even claiming that I was looking for an excuse to claim miller. How does that make any sense? No, really. How? I was the first to claim, and claiming it did nothing for me. In fact, it has only HURT me since. Why would I not just claim Reviver at beginning of day, and avoid claiming miller at all? Because there's a cop? Oh, hey, if Pietro is a cop, then I didn't know that until a long while afterwards, and if I was worried about cops in general, I would've just claimed it outright Day 1) No, Seamus is definitely scum, trying to save his buddy's ass.
Also, proof positive that Pietro is lying: In his claim, he says that flavour heavily indicates he might be insane, and he got a scum result on me. I claimed miller. He got a scum result on me. ... If he truly believed he might be insane, then not only would he have not pursued me so ruthlessly solely from the result, but he should've also backed off when I claimed miller, because that ties SANE cop results to finding me scum. However, he continues to pursue, and even says in his claim that he believes he might be insane. No, no, NO. This is wrong in all sorts of ways.
Oh yeah, Pietro. I have the world's tiniest violin here; want me to play you something?
In summary: Pietro's claim is incredibly shaky, and gives him wriggling room. Mine isn't. I am completely tied down, as I am guaranteed a revival of some sort night 3. It is outright stupid to lynch me today, unless you believe Pietro to be Town. If so, why?
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Also, proof positive that Pietro is lying: In his claim, he says that flavour heavily indicates he might be insane, and he got a scum result on me. I claimed miller. He got a scum result on me. ... If he truly believed he might be insane, then not only would he have not pursued me so ruthlessly solely from the result, but he should've also backed off when I claimed miller, because that ties SANE cop results to finding me scum. However, he continues to pursue, and even says in his claim that he believes he might be insane. No, no, NO. This is wrong in all sorts of ways.
Blatant lie. Hellsnake is making up bullshit. Never said insane. Not being sane and being insane are completely different; see: paranoid.
Also I think he's scum regardless of the investigation. I chose to investigate him because he looked dodgy and it got worse from there.
In summary: Pietro's claim is incredibly shaky, and gives him wriggling room. Mine isn't. I am completely tied down, as I am guaranteed a revival of some sort night 3. It is outright stupid to lynch me today, unless you believe Pietro to be Town. If so, why?
Because ultimately we lynch people based on scummyness, not what they promise on the chopping block. Especially in what is evidently role madness of a sort.
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Yes, and as far as everyone else is concerned, we're both scum. Pretty much guaranteed, to them. So, uhh, what's promised 'on the chopping block' kinda makes a difference. Now back off and stop misrepresenting me, or I'll gefa þér gott hvolpur og sumir ímynda sér ný föt!
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Votecount would be appreciated, too.
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Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [5]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Ethan Hayles
Bill Hellsnake [6]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels, Seamus (Excal), Moses Bike, Chad Hutchins
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews, Peyton Hadley.
Mr. Hellsnake is 2 votes away from having a bounty placed on his own head.
There are 5 hours left in Day 2. EDIT: There are now 29 hours left in Day 2, see Extension post below. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Y'know, looking at my own train, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean, there's Kyle, Seamus, and Pietro all on it. But on the other hand, there's Chad and Jack and Moses. And then, even if Peyton comes in and ties it up, we're relying on the two absentees...
I gotta say: this whole day has been WTF as all-get-out.
Anyway, if I do survive, Peyton, please don't protect me tonight. Not trying to guide it, but please keep it away from me.
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No time, gonna be gone past deadline, go town, I've had my say, info on Aorako and/or town altars would be nice, etc. Ciao.
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((Seconding call for a votecount. I'd like to know exactly how much time we have left.))
"You seem to think you're a madman, Giovanni, but no murderer? And on account of not trusting yourself, you figure maybe there's another policeman waiting in the wings, who oughtn't to out himself to the killers."
"Well, 'friend,' we agree on one thing: not trusting you."
"I'll allow you could be paranoid, but I *don't* allow you're not lying. What's more, it so happens you're STILL LYING. STILL. ((I am like THIS close to thinking this is a freaking POST RESTRICTION.)) Dale DID give a reason for voting for you:
"Not sure I'm sane so don't counter-copclaim"? If you're a towncop why the hell would you think there's another cop?
"
"Ain't saying I AGREE with him on account of I don't, but there it is, right there in that record Nathan's been kind enough to keep for us."
"I don't have to agree with him, though, on account of I've got ample reason to believe you're Scum without listenin' to that:"
((Case summary follows))
- Your play on Day 1 fits the profile of classic Scumlurking. You voted regularly, but offered little or no argument and no original argument with your votes.
- You posted very, very little until the heat on you rose today.
- The votes you've stuck with for the day have come on soft targets - people who are playing badly, be they Scum or Town, and attracting a lot of attention. For a cop, you've sure let others do your scumhunting!
- When our Day 1 lynch claimed, you said it didn't matter (it didn't) - but gave as your reasoning that he was no longer useful to town. Which was wrong and wrong-headed, and that lynch turned up a mislynch.
- You pushed to quicklynch Hellsnake today despite a lot of discussion about his guilt, your guilt, other cases and role/flavor speculation that seems likely to bear fruit.
- When Hellsnake made a claim that made people wavering between the two of you reason to nail you first, you made an appeal to possible LYLO when the Mod had just confirmed it was not LYLO in the last votecount.
- You claimed Cop, the classic CYA claim, then implied you questioned your sanity even though an Insane Cop COULD NOT return the results you've returned. When called, you threw up a defense of Paranoia as some kind of "gotcha!"
- When other people have claimed anything, they gave everyone an extensive rundown of their flavor, in a game where flavor stuff at least appears to be important (see Moses's document, unless you think he's lying Scum). When you claimed? A vague assertion you may be insane.
- You keep lying.
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Right. Speaking of how much time we have left, and the continued mysterious disappearance of Mr. Andrews and Mr. Kolmogorov.
I have received an extension request from Alice / bofh / Nikolai. I would normally be somewhat hesitant to grant this, but Shale / Andrews hasn't been around, either! I've also checked with a few of the "maybe" Mafia players, who have said that it's unlikely they'd be able to replace into the game. I strongly feel that *two* modkills would have the potential of irreversibly screwing up the game. So. An extension of 24 hours has been granted. Day 2 will now end at 7:00 PM, EST, April 25. I would also ask that people avoid a hammer until these two have had a chance to post (as I will still modkill them if they have not posted by Day end).
This is not a situation I would like to see repeated. Unfortunately, a surprise extension seems the lesser of two evils here.
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If Hellsnake is scum and lying we should lynch him now, not days from now. Even if he IS a reviver, that don't make him town. What's to stop him from bein oh maybe like third party Aothingy cult and the guy he revives joins him in it? Just as a possibility.
What matters is what he gone and done with his role and his play, and that all seems mighty scummy here. Specially the part here where he goes on attackin Seamus for the whole miller nonsense when Hellsnake himself played "miller" in just about the most anti town manner possible.
Also he drops an "oh yeah Kyle's a slowkilling third party" with no particular reason other than "well he was on Moses yesterday and didn't get back on him today". Which is... suspicious yeah and I ain't a Kyle fan but wow talk about sensationalism at the last minute, where was this last night when he was all speakin in tongues instead of helpin?
I'm sure done comfortable stayin on him now.
... ninja by mod. Wait, you seriously askin the game not to hammer? Oh, okay. Well I guess I'll check back in a day or two when we're ready to play then.
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Super lame. You can guess how pleased I am for this happening on the day I'm not exactly super enthusiastic about given an expected death.
Even worse when we've already hit the end phase of this day. 24 hours of nothing much.
I'm already on the verge of swapping back to Pietro anyway without this encouraging me to speed up a lynch. I'd take either.
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Nah what in the good lord's name is this? A third Miller claim?
Goddarn it this whole mess is makin' my head hurt. I may-a been wrong with my instinct 'bout not believin' there're two millers, but three? Now that's just stupid. And wha's worse is my bottle's done dried up.
An', I hate t' admit it, but Hellsnake does have a point. If'n this miller claim was designed to save him it done backfired somethin' fierce. An I don't like Seamus' claim none the more. In fact I reckon a extra day to sort out this whole miller business. If'n we lynch Hellsnake an' he turns up town, though, Seamus' is next on the choppin' block far's I'm convinced.
On the other hand, Pietro's cop claim, specifically after I said not to claim anymore, pisses me off t' all get out and don't seem like good town behavior atall. Then again with him on the choppin' block I suppose it makes sense--not that anythin' else about the claim does t' me.
Right nah, I'll leave my vote on Hellsnake, but if people decide Pietro's the one to go today I'm right fine with that too. Hellsnake'd give us more infermation on both Seamus AND Pietro, but Pietro's flip 'd give us enough infermation on Hellsnake all the same.
I'm fine lynchin' either, le's just hurry up and git'r'done. Both stink like shit. I don't like bein' so close to the deadline like this. Don't like it at all.
---
Ninja!
((...srsly? Christ, really? See what Alex said: get back to me when we're ready to play Mafia.))
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##VOTE: Pietro Giovanni
Really, really disliking Hellsnake being at L-2, with two lurkers, well, lurking.
We have two people who are likely to be scum here. One of them categorically cannot keep on being scum after tomorrow. The other can keep on being scum for as long as he can bamboozle Town into believing him.
As Hellsnake says here (http://here), Hargreaves's assertion that Hellsnake was looking for a chance to claim Miller (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105284.html#msg105284) makes no sense to me.
(And Seamus, I don't know about Pietro and am sorry if it came across that way; it was four AM and I wanted to emphasize the actual insanity as soon as it occurred to me.)
::ninja'd by the Mod::
OK, we've got more time.
Incidentally, this brings to my attention another reason why Pietro's LYNCH NAOW was TERRIBLE - if we'd gone along with it, the worst case scenario would be:
The two Lurkers are town, Hellsnake is town, and somebody gets nightkilled.
And we start day 3 down four townies in one night!
EVEN IF HELLSNAKE IS SCUM, we could be pulling a 3:1 trade there.
Best case scenario, of course, is that Hellsnake and the two lurkers are all Scum and we either insta-win or are down to one Scum, but probabilistically speaking that's way less likely to happen - and only Scum!Pietro could KNOW, Town!Pietro could not.
And yes, the Mod had already announced that the two Lurkers, at least one of whom we seem to have confirmation has just not been around to this point, would die or be replaced if the day ended before their return. Hell, quicklynching to end the day early could even make it harder to find replacements.
::Ninja'd by Moses and Chad::
Moses
what
Are you seriously talking about quicklynching in the face of the Mod saying it would mess up the game? Out of PIQUE?
::headdesk::
Chad
If both Hellsnake and Pietro are lying Scum, we should lynch the one we CAN'T pin down.
Also, we have confirmation that WHATEVER Hellsnake can do, it ISN'T alignment-switching. Alignment-switching is a power that was explicitly ruled out in the game setup, along with powers involving random chance.
::ninja'd AGAIN::
Jack
You don't like being close to deadline... but you don't like the deadline moving forward?
::headdesk again::
WHY ARE ALL THE PEOPLE I THINK ARE TOWN HATING ON THIS FOR NO DISCERNIBLE REASON?!
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Also, call me cynical for assuming this is due to us being about to lynch at least one scum, and that at least one of the incoming mod kills is also scum.
Chad: there's a lot of stuff that the Hellchimpanzee could be, and I know that was just an example, but alignment changing powers have been explicitly outlawed in the rules.
I can't reconcile the Hellkraken's actions as town at all, but keep on veering back to Pietro over just how perfectly convenient everything about his claim is in terms of covering his arse. This is just the tipping factor on top of him having been scummy enough to get to this position in the first place, of course, but apparently leaving this not explicitly said gets him angry. Not to mention silly things like claiming I'm not buying his arguments on the Hellkangaroo when I've been the biggest push on that since the game started.
Peyton: while I'm covering random stuff, I've now actually read all of your stuff in detail, so have seen the part where you cover my later question about you [not] dying on a successful protect.
Peyton ninja: sorry for hating something that needlessly strings out the day and screws needlessly with motivation and momentum. There is little to nothing to cover in this extension.
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((Peyton: I dislike this because right now I'm pretty convinced we're not going to bring ANYTHING MORE TO LIGHT until somebody flips. We're just talking in circles and with some pressure on us from the deadline at least we'd be moving forward instead of bickering at each other endlessly.
We need to move to Day 3 already before anything else can get done, and delaying day 3 is just annoying and means I have to read more pointless Walls of Text.
This has nothing to do with me wanting to go to a concert tonight instead of sitting around bickering Mafia. Nothing at all.))
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Right, three things.
A) I am not happy about granting the extension either. I'd call it actively annoyed, in fact. Nevertheless, command decision, it's the lesser of two evils. This does not mean it's not an evil itself.
B) On the meta Moses brought up. Let me just address that now, so there's no time wasted speculating. There are three possibilities here. 1, both potential modkills are town. Town will hit LYLO much faster than designed and almost surely lose. 2, both potential modkills are scum / non-town. Scum would have a nearly impossible time fighting back from losing that many of their own. 3, it's a mix of town / non-town. This option is actually the most harmless for both modkills to go off... but precisely so, in order to prevent metagaming, I must act as if it is one of the first two situations and take the threat of two modkills seriously. I'm not taking into account who may or may not be lynched today.
C) The best outcome: Andrews & Nikolai both post before 7:00 PM today, and we hammer on time. It can still happen! If you make it happen, Alice / Shale, if you're out there reading this!
Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [6]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Ethan Hayles, Peyton Hadley
Bill Hellsnake [6]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels, Seamus (Excal), Moses Bike, Chad Hutchins
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews.
There are now 28 hours left in Day 2, see Extension post above. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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OK, Moses and Jack, I understand what you're saying better now.
Not saying I agree, mind, when we have two people who most of us seem to think are Scum sitting at an L-2 tie, but I understand.
Have to go now, should be back before even the original deadline.
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Yeah I was lazy and didn't check to see if that was outlawed in the rules. It was just an example anyhow, the point is Hellsnake's claim guarantees nothing about his alignment even if it is true.
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Yeah I was lazy and didn't check to see if that was outlawed in the rules. It was just an example anyhow, the point is Hellsnake's claim guarantees nothing about his alignment even if it is true.
I agree it doesn't guarantee anything about his alignment.
What it does is let us CHECK his alignment by ascertaining if he's lying.
The only reasons to lynch him, as I said to Pietro, are if we have no other lynch candidates (not true) or if we believe he could have a power role so devastating that allowing it to exist for another day would be unacceptable.
:sigh:
Reluctant to say this because it's not really "scumhunting" (I'm much more inclined to believe Hellsnake is 3rd party if this is true), but we DO have flavor reason to be concerned about that. Hellsnake's power seems to become available on the same night that my flavor investigation turned up as being sacred to the Order here in town. I don't know if that's significant and don't want to believe we could be dealing with a potentially game-ending power role, but it does unnerve me a bit to see that connection.
(Also, raising the dead in Call of Cthulhu is... generally not something that goes well. Herbert West, anyone?)
Finally, Hellsnake, could you confirm WHEN you'll be able to revive someone, assuming you live that long?
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"Dammit, I need a new pencil. This one's worn all the way down with all these crazy claims."
Nathan groans as he grabs another pencil out of his jacket.
"Okay," he starts, "here's my take. We have three people claiming miller - Hellsnake, O'Malley, and Daniels. Now, unless there's some really weird crap going on around here, I'd say at least one of those claims is fake, if not two of 'em.
As for which of them it is, I'm willing to say that it almost definitely isn't Daniels. Counter-claiming the miller claim would be a ridiculous thing for scum to do, because as it was Hellsnake was probably going down for that claim anyway. The only way that'd make sense is if Scum!Daniels is bussing Scum!Hellsnake, but no point thinking that without looking at the flips.
As for O'Malley, if he's the liar of the three, then the other two are probably genuine. Two millers sounds iffy, but three is so overblown as to be believable. In the end, it comes down to a question of whether it's Hellsnake or O'Malley, and right now an O'Malley lynch is pretty impractical.
Then there's Pietro's involvement in this, with his Guilty-But-Possibly-Not-Sane read on Hellsnake. Explains the lurking, but his need to express his potential insanity suggests that despite his result he doesn't actually think Hellsnake is scum. Not sure if his copclaim really amounts to anything in the end, and I definitely don't see how it clears him given that he claimed AFTER Hellsnake's miller claim.
Finally, there's Hellsnake's fullclaim of HEY I CAN BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD. Feel like specifying exactly how that works beyond 'a roach in my nose'?
Since there's an extension I'll keep the wagons even for now. Honestly, of the two of them Hellsnake's claim feels too ridiculous and ornate to let live, but given some of the other crap that's happened this game I wouldn't be THAT surprised. It'd make a helluva scoop either way, and it's still kinda early for L-1."
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My role PM says my name is Chad Hutchins, and on day 3 my name won't be changed to something other than Chad Hutchins. When day 3 comes along you can hold me to that to see if I'm tellin the truth. Is this valuable? Does it say anything about me? Is it worth keepin me alive for if you think I'm scummy?
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My role PM says my name is Chad Hutchins, and on day 3 my name won't be changed to something other than Chad Hutchins. When day 3 comes along you can hold me to that to see if I'm tellin the truth. Is this valuable? Does it say anything about me? Is it worth keepin me alive for if you think I'm scummy?
Wow, it really says something as bizarre as that?! :o
Seriously, I know you're being hyperbolic, but the analogy you give is inaccurate because we have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth.
What Hellsnake said was "At X time I can do Y, and I will, or else I am a liar." And a liar about something like that? Obviously anti-town, so to the gallows he goes.
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Before I forget, this is very important about Pietro's cop claim.
When he roleclaims, he tells us two things:
1. Pietro's flavor makes him believe he is not a sane cop. Either he's insane (but we can ABSOLUTELY rule this out) or he's paranoid.
2. Pietro tunneled onto Hellsnake today and pushed for him to be lynched ASAP because he got a Scum result. (I could buy this, especially with his "let the record show" line in his first post today (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105068.html#msg105068).)
Except...
When an insane cop gets a Scum result, he has cleared a person unless he hit a Godfather.
When a paranoid cop gets a Scum result, he knows NOTHING more than he did.
So based on HIS OWN suspicions about his role, Pietro should have been inclined to hunt scum anywhere BUT Hellsnake, prior to Hellsnake's Miller claim (since at the time lack of sanity could be either insane or paranoid), or at the very least to try to put his investigation at the back of his mind while he hunted whatever turned up.
And to borrow a page from Pietro's own book, if he is a Paranoid Cop then his claim shouldn't dissuade us from lynching him. All it means is that he has an informational role that does not, in fact, provide information. We shouldn't "lynch him because he's useless," but we shouldn't wait to lynch him because he might be cop.
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Yeah, but that only works if we think Hellsnake is townie (if he lies he hangs). For anyone who thinks he's scummy anyway, him being able to bring someone back still doesn't prove anything positive about him, so why not lynch him? If he guaranteed a full revival, MAYBE, since that's tangible pro town action if he is town (unless there's role madness interfering) but with that clause saying he may only get to make a corpse talk a bit? Ehhhh.
Also for those of you randomly speculating on millers - "Miller" may well mean "returns scum to any cop investigation, overriding cop's sanity" so don't be all "Pietro can't be a paranoid cop!". Not that I think it particularly matters though...
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Yeah, but that only works if we think Hellsnake is townie (if he lies he hangs). For anyone who thinks he's scummy anyway, him being able to bring someone back still doesn't prove anything positive about him, so why not lynch him? If he guaranteed a full revival, MAYBE, since that's tangible pro town action if he is town (unless there's role madness interfering) but with that clause saying he may only get to make a corpse talk a bit? Ehhhh.
OK, if you think he's the scummiest player and no one else is in the ballpark, I can see where you're coming from. On the flip side, if there's a question between two scummy people and one floats the possibility he can provide a powerful, provable service to Town the next day, why wouldn't you go for the OTHER scummy person?
This doesn't apply if you DON'T think Pietro's been as, more or nearly as scummy, obviously.
Also for those of you randomly speculating on millers - "Miller" may well mean "returns scum to any cop investigation, overriding cop's sanity" so don't be all "Pietro can't be a paranoid cop!". Not that I think it particularly matters though...
Pietro can always be a Paranoid Cop.
Miller overriding Insane Cop is... possible, I guess? Different Mods would run it differently, I suppose, but it's weird to me because it makes well-played Insane Cop BETTER than normal Cop.
My point is that, if your flavor made you think you were Insane or Paranoid, why would you go whole-hog pushing the lynch of a person who your investigation seemed to clear (Insane) or tell you nothing about (Paranoid)?
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My point is that, if your flavor made you think you were Insane or Paranoid, why would you go whole-hog pushing the lynch of a person who your investigation seemed to clear (Insane) or tell you nothing about (Paranoid)?
Your logic requires the confirmation that Hellsnake is really a miller; how do you know this?
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My point is that, if your flavor made you think you were Insane or Paranoid, why would you go whole-hog pushing the lynch of a person who your investigation seemed to clear (Insane) or tell you nothing about (Paranoid)?
Your logic requires the confirmation that Hellsnake is really a miller; how do you know this?
Actually, no, it doesn't.
The only thing (I originally thought) the Miller claim did was prove you were not Insane. Because obviously Hellsnake either really is a Miller, or is lying and almost certainly Scum (or third party, I guess?) But Chad points out that Miller could override Insane, so it doesn't reflect on your sanity at all.
My point has nothing to do with whether Hellsnake is a Miller, Scum OR Town. It's purely about your investigation, what you told us you feared about your role, and how you behaved BEFORE Hellsnake's Miller claim.
If you're Paranoid, your investigation tells you nothing. Pushing for the person you investigated on that basis would be questionable at best. There was ample reason to consider Hellsnake scum, but I'm hardly the only person who concluded from you pushed way too hard, with very poor arguments.
If you were Insane, which is now, I suppose, theoretically possible, your investigation CLEARED Hellsnake. I mean, he DID come up Scum, right? An Insane Cop's Scum result means either he hit Godfather (no way of knowing this role even exists, and it's a low probability to hit it Day 1) or he hit a Townie (certain to be the majority of the players in the game and thus statistically likely). This would be a reason to BACK OFF of Hellsnake, not to pursue him aggressively, DEFINITELY not to tunnel onto him as you yourself admited you did today.
If you were unsure if you were Sane, Insane or Paranoid, then your investigation would be basically a null tell until you knew more by making multiple investigations and backing it up with serious, hard-nosed scumhunting in the days to come. It STILL would not be a good reason to tunnel onto Hellsnake, and it still does not in any way excuse the way you pursued that case (or your Day 1).
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...bloody... GRAAAH. Ok. Quite large post just got nom'd. Will try to summarize as best I can. For now, GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!
*sigh* Peyton, it was Seamus, not Hargreaves, who said I was 'begging for an excuse to claim Miller.'
Chad, if you wouldn't mind explaining just how leaving me alive, when there are other alternatives, is a negative for Town, then please speak up now. Because, far as I can see, no matter what my alignment is, I'm pretty much locked into being pro-town if I want to live. (Also, what do you mean by 'last night'?)
Can offer stuff on my backstory if people want, but basically, tonight I'll find out if The Stars Are Right, or if The Stars Are Silent. Right = Full revive, save powers. Silent = One-day talk. Either way, something will happen. I do this on Night 3, so Day 4 is when people show up.
"Nothing more to talk about" seems kinda harsh, given there are at LEAST 4 people who've yet to give their say on things as they stand now; Seamus among them. And, if nothing else, we can try to figure out this whole 3-Miller business.
I know somebody knows SOMETHING I'm looking for. So. Any information on Aorako, nearby altars, or the Order of Unseen Wisdom. Order is less important, since my Revival comes on the Night of the Full Moon (so, theoretically, we could have a Night 31, wherein I get another shot of revival) and so it coinciding with one of their important dates is coincidence, I'm sure. Or maybe not, since Cthulu, but.
Ragh. Sufficient? ... Yeah. Peyton covers everything I had to say to Pietro. Although I will say this: The wording heavily implies that I will return Town to insane cops.
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Oh, right. I completely forgot about one of the conditions on my revival--aside from the one determining if the stars are right--is that some people I am simply unable to revive. Lynch victims are generally A-OK, but yeah. (And no, this doesn't mean anything about alignment whatsoever, so please nobody take this as being a scumtell or towntell. It really is just plain neutral, since I have no clue who I won't be able to revive yet, and may never know)
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*sigh* Peyton, it was Seamus, not Hargreaves, who said I was 'begging for an excuse to claim Miller.'
My bad.
Can offer stuff on my backstory if people want, but basically, tonight I'll find out if The Stars Are Right, or if The Stars Are Silent. Right = Full revive, save powers. Silent = One-day talk. Either way, something will happen. I do this on Night 3, so Day 4 is when people show up.
>_<
So you're actually asking us to leave you alive for TWO days regardless of our take on your alignment, not just one.
I don't have a second person I'm deeply suspicious of. Not at ALL sure I'm comfortable leaving you up and about for yet another day, unless something else turns up in the meantime.
"Nothing more to talk about" seems kinda harsh, given there are at LEAST 4 people who've yet to give their say on things as they stand now; Seamus among them. And, if nothing else, we can try to figure out this whole 3-Miller business.
I tend to agree with this, especially in light of your having to live as far as Night 3 if we decide to put your claim to the test.
But I'll say this. I don't believe we're going to figure out the 3-Miller business without somebody dying.
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Christ. Jumble of stuff these past couple days, and I've finally caught up. Took long enough.
First off, this is annoyingly late enough in the day phase, and I apologise for this, however I feel it is important enough to be mentioned. I did target Moses Bike last night, however, my action is not a delayed kill (unless the mod is even more of a bastard than I had expected). Rather, it is a rolecop: I find out their role "ability", but like everything else in this bloody game, it comes wrapped in the usual case of flavour-insanity. However, I am not sure if I am willing to or if I even need to reveal what I found out about Bike's role last night (there have been enough roleclaims so far, and I am unconvinced that cracking the setup wide-open at this point is a good idea, considering what just happened in memes mafia), but if Bike himself or enough of the rest of Town want me to, then I will.
Incidentally, at this point, I am pretty convinced that Bike is Town, I see no reason to suspect otherwise, he hasn't done any Anti-Town actions, etc.
Anyway, onto events. First off: Multiple Millers? U Role Mad. Then again, hardly *surprising*, given the flavour, but still.
Actually, you know what, screw it, this could be very relevant: I myself am ALSO a miller. Miller is tied to me being from out-of-town, as well as the specific nature of my rolecop power (namely that it comes from a glowing stone that came into my posession one day - furthermore, it is also stated in my role PM that the results of said power "are a trap", though no clarification on the nature of said trap is given)
On second thought, four millers? What the shit. Okay, so this basically forces today to be between Pietro and Hellsnake, I highly doubt that both of them are telling the truth, this is just ridiculous. Anyway, there is no reason to vote Hellsnake today for the simple reason that we can easily see if he is telling the truth, as he said: lynch Pietro today, if Pietro is scum then hooray, otherwise, have Hellsnake revive Pietro, if this doesn't work then lynch Hellsnake for fakeclaiming. Of course, Hellsnake *could* try and claim being roleblocked or some shenanigans like that, which could complicate this, but given the choice between the two, I'd rather lynch Pietro now over Hell-in-a-Handbasket, even if the latter decided to randomly become near-useless at one point and then flail around like crazy speaking in terrible Icelandic for absolutely no good reason.
If Hellsnake is scum and lying we should lynch him now, not days from now. Even if he IS a reviver, that don't make him town. What's to stop him from bein oh maybe like third party Aothingy cult and the guy he revives joins him in it? Just as a possibility.
Highly unlikely, and I'm not sure if he is lying. I'm still more convinced that Pietro is lying at this point. As for the whole cult aspect, alignment-switching/rules/etc.
Anyway, far more willing to vote Pietro at the moment out of Scumminess, but I'm not sure if that's the best course of action given the FOUR-MILLERS nonsense at this point in time. Hm.
Yeah, Pietro it is. ##Vote: Pietro Giovanni
I am not seeing any case on Handley, beyond the usual lurking charge, which also applies to myself and Martin Andrews, so I have no clue why people are voting for him beyond the usual LAL reasoning.
Hadley, could you please explain this:
"That's my whole story; I checked out the old Unseen Wisdom lodge ((this was provided flavor)) and looked in to make sure Mr. Bike was safe ((my night action)). Some time during the night ((My PM did not specify what I was doing at the time)) I got attacked, but a spell I learned from one of my previous investigations gave the attacker a right good surprise. The lunatic who jumped me didn't seem to be after Mr. Bike ((PM did specify this)), but me."
So it was specified that you explicitly were attacked, and not Mr.Bike? Again, why the need to roleclaim, then?
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((FOUR millers what is this i dont even))
"Well, my Russian friend, glad to see you've decided us Americans are worth your time after all."
"I told folks what I'd done on account of it was relevant at the time. Mr. Daniels was of the view that there being TWO of a role meant one of was liable to be Scum, and I happened to know that wasn't so. I suppose I could've kept my mouth shut about lending a hand to Mr. Bike and just told folks I've got ways of foiling a killer against myself, but saw no reason not to fullclaim. After all, I'd already told Town I had a two-part role, and at the time I thought maybe it would shed some light on Mr. Bike's strange evening."
"And yes, since you ask, I'm quite sure that madman last night was out for my blood. It happened when I was on my way up to the Lodge, not at Mr. Bike's room."
((The Mod did not provide flavor for how or where I was attacked, but was very specific about my being the one attacked, not Moses.))
"If your power comes from the Mythos, Kolmogorov, I'd lay good money it's dangerous. And you're using it without even knowing what it does? No wonder poor Moses is feeling poorly. God alone knows what that rock of yours did to him."
((Based on what you've said, I'm inclined to believe the slowkill is indeed the result of your using your power on Moses. Oddly enough, if that's true it probably reduces your chances of being scum, for the meta reasons Moses talked about when he though Kyle/Sopko did it to him. Which could still be the case.))
((Note that Pietro being Scum does not in any way preclude Hellsnake ALSO being Scum, although at that point them bussing each other and Hellsnake offering up a provable claim becomes incredibly dangerous unless they're more numerous or powerful than usual.))
((The case on Handley, which I hope I'll have time to return to tomorrow since it's slipped off my radar with this whole Pietro/Hellsnake/Unlimited Miller Works brouhaha, centers around his being gung-ho on Moses Day 1, then dropping his case completely at the start of Day 2 and initially offering a rather weak justification. He HAS been absent for a while now, but the case was never on lurking.))
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You'll forgive me that my immediate reaction to a 'miller rolecop' claim is to assume 'scum rolecop'. Not that I especially want to probe the likeliness of it right now, but I trust that will receive appropriate attention tomorrow. I implicitly trust that you have information about my role regardless of your alignment in any case, so given that revealing said information doesn't actually say anything about your alignment I'd rather you kept it to yourself in the off-chance that I survive the night and you're not scum.
The one plan that I would like to set up is to insist that at the start of day 3 you reveal your night 2 target before the new person having visions of doom reveals them. By which I mean, hey there future person with doom visions, whoever you are, keep quiet until Nikolai does his thing. Just as an extra check behind whether you're actually accidentally Dr. Doom or not. (Note that this in no way directs any night actions)
Speaking on acting on me and trap and all that, you've heard my flavour, does any of it make sense to you? Sure, maybe you don't know about the whole visions of doom thing and such, but what about the whole 'conversation I can't remember any more' thing? Does that ring any bells? It just seems like we should be able to work out whether it was you or not. Either you know stuff about me because you hypnotised me with a magic stone, or you know stuff about me through different means.
I'd actually be fairly hopeful if it was you, because a rolecop/slowkill combo seems almost (but not quite) pointless. Also yes, it would massively raise Kyle back up the ladder of suspicion.
I'm still concerned about how a super doctor fits in with game balance, though I guess the conclusion is just not to second guess what scum have. The first port of call would be to register any possible doubt with Peyton, but the thing is that he took the attack last night, and there are very few gambits where scum could possibly survive faking that claim (the main one would be if a non-scum roleblocker had blocked the goon on the kill, so scum would know that no one would counter claim, but in a role madness game I'd expect a town roleblocker to be surprised that their target hadn't claimed to be roleblocked). Still leaves ITP possibilities, but hey.
And hey, four millers. Who even knows if that's supposed to be the connection to my information any more. Can't immediately fathom why two scum would jump into the frying pan of their own volition, but it can stew. Like, Nikolai's vote would make sense as scum given it would drag out the miller mess for an extra day, but it doesn't reconcile with his own claim, which serves nothing but to drag him into further scrutiny. Wouldn't add to the number of mislynches or anything.
Oh, and all of this nonsense about keeping the Hellvole alive because of his role malarckey. There's a good reason to lynch him now: do not suffer scum to live. I'd care more about this distinction people are making - and maybe it should be looked on in more scrutiny in later days should Pietro be town and Hellmegasquid be scum - if not for my willingness to off them both.
Speaking of which, no, I'm not going to lame out and drop the hammer now, as much as I'd like to and am in position for. Fortunately I'm busy enough today anyway that only the last few hours will be a nuisance.
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((Four miller claims makes me very confused. For now ##Unvote so we don't get a lynch with almost a day's discusion left, but I'll be around later to make a final decision.
Something I've only just realised. Hadley claimed BP/Bodyguard, but didn't Callahan claim BP...? Obviously no time to look into it today, but a curious fact to look at tomorrow. This setup is really getting weird.
And yes, Hellsnake, some flavour would be appreciated.))
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Look closer, Nathan. The fact that Tyrone had claimed bulletproof was part of what led to Peyton making his roleclaim in the first place. Not to mention the huge mess to resolve if suggesting his 'hey guys I took the hit last night' is a lie. Also, Tyrone didn't just claim bulletproof - it is confirmed in the flip following his lynch.
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The one plan that I would like to set up is to insist that at the start of day 3 you reveal your night 2 target before the new person having visions of doom reveals them. By which I mean, hey there future person with doom visions, whoever you are, keep quiet until Nikolai does his thing. Just as an extra check behind whether you're actually accidentally Dr. Doom or not. (Note that this in no way directs any night actions)
Gotcha, and seconding this plan, whoever you will be. Keep quiet until I've posted who my investigation target was, on D3.
Speaking on acting on me and trap and all that, you've heard my flavour, does any of it make sense to you? Sure, maybe you don't know about the whole visions of doom thing and such, but what about the whole 'conversation I can't remember any more' thing? Does that ring any bells? It just seems like we should be able to work out whether it was you or not. Either you know stuff about me because you hypnotised me with a magic stone, or you know stuff about me through different means.
Interestingly enough, my role flavour states that by having the stone in my posession, I basically just read people's auras - no hypnosis needed. The "conversation I can't remember anymore" thing, however, makes sense, given that I can't remember the name of the person, or the conversation I had with him, before getting the stone from him - just that he was a friendly, bearded man who was always "The Patriarch". Hm. Hmm. Interesting.
And hey, four millers. Who even knows if that's supposed to be the connection to my information any more. Can't immediately fathom why two scum would jump into the frying pan of their own volition, but it can stew. Like, Nikolai's vote would make sense as scum given it would drag out the miller mess for an extra day, but it doesn't reconcile with his own claim, which serves nothing but to drag him into further scrutiny. Wouldn't add to the number of mislynches or anything.
Oh, and all of this nonsense about keeping the Hellvole alive because of his role malarckey. There's a good reason to lynch him now: do not suffer scum to live. I'd care more about this distinction people are making - and maybe it should be looked on in more scrutiny in later days should Pietro be town and Hellmegasquid be scum - if not for my willingness to off them both.
Here's the thing - they're both quite horrible, and I'd be 100% perfectly content with a lynch of either of them. The main difference however is that the Hellvole can prove himself to some extent very easily via role malarckey (though I'm unconvinced as to why a bounty hunter would have a revive ability - care to clarify how your role flavour explains that, Hellsnake?), whereas a cop who got a Scum result on a claimed Miller (we can assume that either he's a Miller, in which case he inv's as Scum, or he's a non-GF Scum, in which case he inv's as...Scum! Otherwise there is no point for a non-Miller Town or a Scum GF to fakeclaim Miller unless they are being extremely suicidal and actively playing against their win condition and whatnot, and thus I will consider that possibility completely inadmissible), which pegs Pietro as either Sane or Paranoid, if he's Paranoid or Fakeclaiming he could just claim that he gets guilties on everyone and not have to worry about anything, whereas if he gets an innocent on someone who later flips Town, he gets proven as a Sane Cop. This requires at least one more investigation and a flip of someone who was inv'd as Innocent, which could take another day or two to get.
Really, I could go either way - the case on Hellsnake is self-evident, practically, and...well.
Hm. The other issue is that Pietro's play so far plays pretty closely to that of a Cop's:
- Lurking D1, just getting by. Recall that both Scum AND powerful Town Power Roles want to not attract attention to themselves D1.
- Opens D2 with a vote on Hellsnake, followed by more accusation and tunnelling on Hellsnake, with a vehement belief that Hellsnake is, in fact, Scum, and keeps this up until the Miller Madness(TM), and even a bit past that.
- The Cop roleclaim doesn't seem to be at least inherently inconsistent in any way, despite being a bit unexpected at this time.
Pietro, what *exactly* does it say when it claims that you are somehow "not fully Sane as a Cop?". Answer this question as best as you can, this could potentially be quite important.
Anyway, will be on and around until deadline.
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Ronald Dale;
... Four millers and/or a Godfather. This setup is completely wacky and I am headdesking something fierce.
Why the hell are all the millers claiming and ohgodwhatisthis.
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Sticking this in its own post.
Shale has still been incommunicado. I requested in the extension that people hold off from hammering 'till our lurkers had a chance to post. Since there's only 6 hours left, I'm not going to screw up everyone else's schedules even more due to this. This "don't hammer" request is removed; feel free to hammer and end the day whenever.
If Shale posts in time, then great, and if he doesn't, he will be modkilled with flip at end of day.
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OOC: Okay, back. Finally. That was a hellish fucking week, and the only chance I've had to visit the boards under any username was late-night Friday, under any username. I realize this reflects incredibly poorly on me in any case, and I'll understand whatever the group wants to do. In the meantime, I'm going to get down to playing the game, and the chips can fall where they may.
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Alright, my story goes as follows.
It was an easy case; wannabe mafioso jumped bail. His daddy was a professor at Miskatonic U, so I figured he'd go there to visit his family. Nothing at the house, so I checked the daddy's office. There was something about an expedition in British Iraq, but I didn't think much of it at the time, except that maybe I could catch a quick nap over by the crates from the exploration. The boy wasn't likely to show today anyway, so what's the harm? Anyway, as I was lying down, I heard the scuttling of insects; again, thought nothing of it at the time. As I was sleeping, I woke up to the feeling of something crawling up my nose, and before I could do anything about it... I was hearing something, and bowing so hard my face was in the dirt. It told me it had it's dog leash upon me, and sent me to sleep by saying, "Should there not be peace? Rest, gather strength." And I was out for a good 12 hours.
That was 8 months ago. Since then, my priorities have been a little... different. I immediately researched the expedition, and found out my new Master was a Psychic overlord of an ancient Sumerian civilization. I, personally, am not too sure what it wants, but... Unity and peace seems like a safe bet.
Some oddities have arisen, however. I can understand it, for the most part, but it doesn't seem to know the names of locations in this day and age, so following its instructions can get a little... difficult. Master also isn't aware of things like guns, railroads, telegraphs, etc. However, like I mentioned earlier, Master gives me... power. Lots of it. It's not a specific kind of power, it's a pretty general thing, but it is quite notable in that it helps me catch my Bounties. I mean, I don't seem to need sleep anymore, I have incredible physical strength, and... well, you guys all saw another one the night of the murder. When I yell, people cower before me and work to fulfill my wishes. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. (Though I have found out that if I get drunk--really, REALLY drunk--I can escape Master's influence)
Anyway, Master's new mission is to find the Altar of Aorako; it's the only reason I'm here to begin with. The altar looks like stone circles, north of here. Once I find them, my new instructions should be made clear.
Master can do many things, and in a search for peace, bringing back the dead is a worthy goal, is it not? Although... with that kind of backstory, it is rather hard not to look suspicious, don't you agree? ((Roach = Super powers, like reviving dead. Super powers = Suspicious = Miller. Actually, there's a LOT about me that's suspicious, so take your pick, really))
Ninja'd by mod and Andrews. Not much to say, other than welcome back, and I hope this next week goes much better for you.
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Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [6]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Ethan Hayles, Peyton Hadley, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Bill Hellsnake [6]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels, Seamus (Excal), Moses Bike, Chad Hutchins
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Martin Andrews, Nathan Greaves.
There are 6 hours left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Martin Andrews! What do you know about the Order of Unseen Wisdom and its ceremonies and stuff?
Mass claims! What in the I don't even know.
Hellsnake is still more suspicious than Pietro to me. His miller claim play was incredibly dodgy, he's been oddly unhelpful and defensive since then, and his roleclaim was also vague (first "day 3" now "night 3/day 4"). Those not wanting to vote for him because of his roleclaim, I urge consideration of the facts that A. it doesn't prove anything about him and B. Pietro can ALSO prove himself to some extent and benefit town with revealing his investigations.
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Martin Andrews - Welcome back! Sorry about your weekend, and IMO it's a null tell since you've been totally out of communication to this point. I don't envy you the catching up you'll have to do.
Chad and Kolmogorov - You both assert that Pietro CAN prove he's a town Cop, provided he's sane. This is not true. He can give us strong reason to BELIEVE he's a Cop by getting a Scum result on someone who subsequently flips Scum and a Town result on someone who subsequently flips Town, but Scum have that information, too. That's why Cop is such a powerful fakeclaim.
That's not to say Pietro ISN'T a Cop, just that he can't PROVE he is without his flip or some combination of other investigations backing up his claim.
However, I definitely agree with Chad that waiting to lynch Hellsnake because his claim can prove him town is not correct, either.
You know what would be an awesome fakeclaim for a Scum Reviver? Town Miller Reviver, then use your power to raise a townie so everyone trusts you and excuses everything else you've done. Sure, scum lose a day's worth of nightkilling, but if the reviver is allowed to coast as "proven" town that's a more than fair trade.
The benefit here is that we get back a Townie. Eventually.
The more I think about it, the more I believe all that really matters is which one of the two looks Scummier. At the moment that's Pietro for me, but I'm going to give them both another full readthrough.
NOTE
I will NOT be available at deadline. I have to leave for dinner and a show around 5:00 EST and have to get cleaned up before I leave. The following series of re-reads are almost certainly going to be my last contribution today.
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Brace for impact.
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...
Uh, Chad, what are you on? First off, your points contradict each other. (Hellsnake can't prove anything, but Pietro can prove something just like Hellsnake!) Next, I see you're still not quite getting the logic behind lynching Pietro over me today. Yes, suffer no scum to live. However, I am absolutely no threat to you to leave alive an extra day when you've got another choice. You have to suffer a scum to live pretty much no matter what (assuming we're both scum). I'm also curious as to where you thought I said "Day 3" in any of that, aside from "When I'll know how effective my revival is." Other people have been making assumptions on my role without grabbing the full information; not my fault.
Finally, what can Pietro prove? Assume he's Town; his investigations are unreliable, and thus unhelpful. It would take more than two nights from now to check on his sanity/if he's paranoid. So proving his claim takes longer. However, it's incredibly difficult to DISprove his claim, short of killing him, as he has claimed he could be sane, insane, or paranoid. Now assume he's scum. He KNOWS who is scum, and who is town/TP. He can, say, point to Moses or Jack tomorrow, and say "these guys are town!"
Ninja'd by Peyton, pretty much summing up what I've said. Although I am now extremely suspicious of Chad for the power-backing of Pietro.
I will also ask who honestly thought I was trying to "buy Town insurance" with my claim? I am fully aware that it proves absolutely nothing about my alignment.
...God damn, what kind of lunatic would pull Miller/Reviver as a scum gambit? It makes no sense. Ugh.
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Oh, yeah. And I haven't fullclaimed yet. And... well, I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not to fullclaim. But I have good reason not to have said anything, save some breadcrumbing on my third power.
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((OK, we're running out of time here.
Okay, there's an obvious problem that seems to come up when I think about this enough. If Pietro is Town, he's either a sane Cop in a game where there are several miller roles (which is a pretty horrible role for Town) or we have him as a Paranoid cop in which case it doesn't even matter that there are so many millers. Alternatively pretty much EVERYONE who's claimed Miller is lying, but that's verging on suicidal. Either way, I'm not sure how much we can trust his investigations until we find out if they're true, and we can't do that without lynching someone he's found guilty.
On that note, we can't sit around on 4 miller claims and assume they're ALL true. Daniels is the only one I'm really trusting in to any great extent, given that he counterclaimed when unnecessary. The Kolmogorov miller rolecop claim is sort of uncomfortable, and O'Malley I'm undecided on. Still, no way we're going to resolve it without lynching a few, preferrably those who are suspicious for other reasons, and the case has already been made against Hellsnake. Besides, if Hellsnake claims he can come back from the dead, we have less to risk if we're wrong on him than if we lynch the (presumably mortal) copclaim.
Finally, I have personal reasons not to believe his claim that I don't want to go into at this point in time. For now:
##Vote: Bill Hellsnake (L-1)))
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Woahwoahwoahwoahwoah. You've got it WAY wrong there, buddy. I can't do anything if I die. If I die, I'm gone for good. Anyway, guess I may as well fullclaim, since I'm looking to be quick-lynched.
Miller/Reviver/Bulletproof. Make of that what you will, and go Town.
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Oh, yeah. And this is why I didn't bat an eyelash when Jack counter-claimed with Miller. I already knew there were two bulletproofs (Though three makes me very wary) when Callahan died yesterday.
Btw, if you wouldn't mind explaining why you don't believe my claims whatsoever? (Not asking for roles here, FYI) Also, would be nice if you could take your vote down for a sec so we can talk this out like rational folks.
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((Ah, I got confused with your claim. I thought you meant you yourself could revive from the dead N3 and then got to resurrect someone afterwards.
##Unvote, then. I'll say that my power may well go along with yours, but not in the way you're looking for and in a way I find hard to see as being balanced for Town. Anything more than that is more than I'm willing to disclose atm.))
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CRAP OUT OF TIME ON MY REREAD I HAVE A WHOLE SPREADSHEET OF THIS SHIT
Summary That Is All I Have Time For And Probably All You Want
Hellsnake's play looks much better to me on a reread than it did originally. Until his post-role-claim shenanigans, he actually looks like bad town, and not AS bad of town as I thought. He consistently makes cases on the people he votes, and those cases generally contain content that is both original and accurate. If Day 2 ended right after he finally delivered his promised cases on a bunch of people, I'd actually say he looks like a solid townie.
Then come his post-role shenanigans. Fuck. His roleclaim is a big stretch to believe and should not have been claimed at the time if true. His explanation of the flavor behind it is contradictory and comes in dribs and drops. He DOES originally indicate he'll be able to revive on day 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105322.html#msg105322), then later denies it. His attacks on other lynch candidate Pietro devolve from factual to emotional. He looks like flailing scum to the n'th degree.
Pietro
Is fucking scum. If he's not, he's the WORST COP EVAR or I fail at Mafia forever.
His quicklynch post alone is worth quicklynching him for if it didn't do all the damage he seemed to want. "Kill this guy who promised to give his analysis later before he gives his analysis, in time to modkill two people of unknown alignment, and in the process finish off someone who believes he'll die at night and has an apparently important flavor-based clue we're trying to puzzle off with him."
Then he proceeds to push for the quicklynch, to misrepresent, ignore or outright lie about EVERY SINGLE VOTE AGAINST HIM. Again, and again, and again.
And when he's called on all of this and going to hang for being scum, he comes back with a copclaim and then SHOOTS HIS OWN CLAIM IN THE FOOT with an apparent logical contradiction, which he proceeds to defend with gotcha! play and misrepresenting people's attempts to unsnarl the logic.
Vote stays. Oh, God does it stay.
(I would, however, not be averse to voting Hellsnake tomorrow depending on what happens tonight.)
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Well to lay it out flat, Mr. Hellsnake, I think you're scummy! I think you've played all today in a very self serving rather than town serving way. I think you're more likely to be third party than scum-team as it stands but I don't think you're likely to be town. This whole day has been full o'you revealing little bits and pieces and scramblin to save yourself, sayin "Oh yeah here's another awesome thing about me believe me or not go town!" (twice now today you done this "go town" thing and I ain't likin that), but on the offense you just been goin on about "well why lynch me when you got another choice?"
It's like people are assumin that Hellsnake is town if he can bring people back, and also assumin Pietro is scummy enough to deserve a lynch. Which I am not too sure on, seein as unlike Hellsnake, Pietro's behavior actually fits his roleclaim pretty well and makes more sense lookin back on it.
Point I been tryin to make a few times today is "I can do X in the future if you leave me alive" IS NO REASON NOT TO LYNCH SOMEONE SCUMMY. Anyone excusin Hellsnake on that sole reason while not excusin Pietro is plumb crazy, and anyone legitimately thinkin Pietro's play is scummier than Hellsnake's now, I'd sure like to hear from them about it.
Ninja by Mr. Hadley doin exactly that. Well thank you sir, you are an honest man and I can respect that vote now.
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Brace for impact.
Also this is startin to worry me, what is goin on?
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Sigh. Okay, so now we got ourselves a fourth miller claim?
Now I ain't too sure o' Seamus or Nickolai's claims, and I reckon Hellsnake's is bullshit. Seamus sounds a little scummy, claimin' something like Miller at a time where doin' so would push Hellsnake over the edge. On the other hand, if Hellsnake turns out to be town, or third party, then this kinda claim would be damn stupid for scum to do since it'd set everyone on him next. Nickolai's seems fishier to me, like scum hoppin' on an opportunity to smoke screen and get everyone all flustered and more confused 'n normal.
But back to the matter o' today. If we go an' lynch Peitro, may's we lose a cop that might not be useful a'tall, but if we lynch Hellsnake well then we lose a possible reviver who may not even be that useful since he mayn't do a full revive anyway. Refusin' to lynch 'im 'cuz of this possibility strikes me as a bad move, and I don't like Nickolai none the more for suggestin' it--sure, we kin verify that after tomorrow's lynchin, but if he's lyin' we're givin' him a whole TWO nights to use his real scum power, whatever that may be. Not that the point is entirely invalid, though, since if we're goin' by the usefulness of their roleclaims, Hellsnake's is far more useful, since if Pietro IS town he's a dang shitty cop.
Not that I have respect for that line o' thought, mind.
Moreover, we get more information from lynchin Hellsnake. Doin' so helps us start workin' out this miller business. So I still think we should lynch him over Pietro. I'm fine with a Pietro lynch but think Hellsnake's the better idea.
We've got t' act, soon, too. So for the love of hell will a couple of us be decisive? We kin wait for Andrews to speak up I suppose but dang if today ends in a no-lynch I'll be right furious.
(Speaking of which, can we get a votecount so we know how long until deadline?)
Ninja'd by Peyton and Chad. Nothin' t' add, though.
Ninja'd by Chad again. Huh, I missed that. Moses, what DO you mean by that? That we're comin' up on the deadline? That we're hammerin' soon?
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Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [6]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Ethan Hayles, Peyton Hadley, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Bill Hellsnake [6]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels, Seamus (Excal), Moses Bike, Chad Hutchins, Nathan Greaves
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Martin Andrews, Nathan Greaves.
There are 2 hours left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Also thinkin more on it, I think the bulletproof claim also strongly points to Hellsnake as third party. We already got one hard confirmed flipped town bulletproof and one soft confirmed (no scum kill, nobody else claimin to be attacked) claimed bulletproof. Now there could be any number of millers without affectin balance too much I think, but three bulletproofs is startin to have ridiculous implications if they're all town.
And again Hellsnake didn't say nothin about this and didn't seem to think much about it, which I suppose he would have if he was town - just threw it out there to save his skin again. If football's learned me anything it's that only carin bout your own stats and not bein a team player is about the worst thing a player can do.
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Fu--yeah, guess I did say Day 3. Meant Night 3.
As for Miller business... I could do a whole thing right here, right now, but I need to know if Moses' investigation last night acted like a cop's. Without that, we really are at a complete loss about the whole Miller business until at least two of us wind up dead. (Yes, two. One will set off a whole bunch of new questions that won't be answered without another's death)
Still waiting on whatever Moses was telling us to brace for, though.
Ninja'd by Chad: What good would any of that do at this point? It's all going to be seen as flailing, so why bother doing anything but giving you guys information, and trying to think of stuff for tomorrow? Oh, and yeah, I AM Town Bulletproof/Miller/Reviver. Not a Third Party. Sorry if my teamplay goes along different lines than yours. I'm also sorry I've been trying to crack the puzzles that have been showing up, which we need more information for. So very, very sorry.
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Also, way to contradict yourself again. You say you think I'm scummy, than go on to claim how I'm acting exactly like a third party and that you think I'm a third party. You also keep giving me misrep.
Once this mess with me and Pietro's over, and if the Miller thing hasn't cleared up, I'd like people to poke their noses in Chad's direction.
Anyway, I think I'm gonna give Kyle another look-over.
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Oh, nothing serious. I'm only kinda sorta around anyway in case I'm really needed going up to deadline. Not being useful or anything.
That was just a joke following a post from Peyton threatening to have more summaries, which I thought might result in something like the end of day one.
One thing I'll point out is that I don't remember that particular inconsistency from Hellzebra. Well, remember it differently. If I remember correctly, he started by saying it was a night 3 thing, then at some point later muddled up and said he'd get the stuff on day 3, before going to night 3. Maybe that's worse, but I read the day 3 thing as it came out as a random slip. Not that I'm not still on him.
Don't know about the third party claim. The bulletproof claim from the Hellarmadillo is just what regardless.
More ninjas. Heading off again, but no, I'm still not responding to your rolefish, Helljellyfish. Especially now it doesn't seem to be related to any of your three claimed roles.
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By "scummy" I meant "nontowny". As in not acting like town's best interests are your best interests.
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Rrrg... Go to Hell. *Sigh* Anyway. There's one more thing I'd like to know; when a sane cop investigates Third Party, what result do they get?
Chad, I'd appreciate it if you could please not use words like 'scummy' in the case of 'nontowny' then, as there are certain connotations attached.
Kyle needs to speak up. Now. He hasn't talked since before role shenanigans. Ethan and Seamus also need to speak up. I realize that with so little time left, it is incredibly unlikely to get any of them around, but they've been gone far too long.
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Sorry, meant to say "Go to Hell(snake)".
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Backstory, as requested:
I don't have the slightest idea what in the hell is going on, because I have amnesia. I woke up a few days ago and went through my normal morning routine before realizing that, while I know who I am and what I do for a living, what the local newspaper is called, etc, etc, I can't recall a single thing I've actually done in my entire adult life. And even though I can tell from my own records at the store where I work that I've only lived her for about half a year, it feels like I've been here forever.
Anyway, when I went into town that day, I was confronted with the murder of Sheriff Jon Hutchins, and while I can't really remember doing anything specific, I know he was a good man.
I am not, to the best of my knowledge, a miller, despite being from out of town.
Okay, so, Hellsnake and Pietro are the going concerns. Apologies if I duplicate anyone else's arguments without credit; I'm mainly going through their posts specifically, because digesting the entire thread this quickly would just tie my brain in knots.
1) Hellsnake's rolefishing is.......dumb. So incredibly dumb. But not necessarily scummy. In fact, kind of dumb-towny, the way I read it, if only because a hypothetical Scumsnake would already know that, if Bike is town, he's not a cop, unless of course he's lying and thereby giving useless info anyway. Millersnake, by contrast, does have a good reason to ask, although he should have been up-front about why.
2) The reviver part of the claim is just outright bizarre. Like I said before, I'm not going to pretend to know the mind of mod; I know my role isn't exactly standard issue, either. But it smacks of the "oh, and here's why it would be a REALLY BAD IDEA to lynch me" gambit that scum likes to pull, when there is NO good reason for a townie with such a kill-bait role to fullclaim unasked so early.
3) In the same post (and his subsequent megaposting), he does almost as much reporting as I did this week, and brother, that's a lot of reporting (seventeen #@!$ articles between my last post and today. Argh!). Reporting can also be dumb-town play, but it, the rolefishing and his tunnel-vision on Pietro in those megaposts (defining people by their positions on a pet case - not good) combines into a whole lot of poor play, all in one package.
4) OH GOD PIETRO'S CLAIM BURNS US. I know, this is supposed to be about Hellsnake, but Jesus CHRIST. You claimed cop so you could confirm that a self-proclaimed miller returns scum?! Because, y'know, everybody was worried that Hellsnake was a godfather or ITP claiming miller for shits and giggles, and this sets our minds at ease? Argh argh argh argh argh argh argh. ARGH. Also, argh. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH. This makes Bill's reviver claim look like Nobel material.
Okay, I need to move on to something else or I'm just going to keep typing "argh" until the day ends.
5) Bill leans on the reviver claim again. See above re "don't lynch me or else" being a scummy sort of argument.
6) FOUR MILLERS? What the fuck.
7) I agree with Bike here: You'll forgive me that my immediate reaction to a 'miller rolecop' claim is to assume 'scum rolecop'.
Especially since it now seems to be open season for miller claims.
8) Reading through Pietro's posts, it seems...a bit sparse, maybe (oh, the hypocrisy!), but on the whole reasonable. The only thing that sticks out is his most recent post:
My point is that, if your flavor made you think you were Insane or Paranoid, why would you go whole-hog pushing the lynch of a person who your investigation seemed to clear (Insane) or tell you nothing about (Paranoid)?
Your logic requires the confirmation that Hellsnake is really a miller; how do you know this?
A claimed miller will, 99.9999999999999999999999% of the time, return scum to sane cops; either because he is a miller or because he is scum claiming miller to explain an investigation labeling him scum. The only way that doesn't happen is if the claimer is non-miller town, ITP or godfather, claiming miller for NO REASON AT ALL.
Okay, now for something completely different: Kyle/Sopko. His flavor fixation took up a lot of Day 1, and still irks me something fierce. Day 2, he throws a nigh-contentless vote on Hellsnake - asking for clarification on some wording, and mainly justifying the vote with suspicion from Day 1. He does follow that with a good post about Hellsnake's play and scumminess, and then disappears with this:
And to Nathan, I know it's an uncomfortable suggestion, but look at it. We still lose him tomorrow if he's telling the truth, and if he's lying, we lynch a scum. Lynching a scum is NEVER gaining nothing. If you came out against this from the position that his lynch tells us nothing, it'd make a little more sense, but if he ends up being scum it is not. I never said that we should forget looking at everyone else either.
And to Nathan, I know it's an uncomfortable suggestion, but look at it. We still lose him tomorrow if he's telling the truth, and if he's lying, we lynch a scum. Lynching a scum is NEVER gaining nothing. If you came out against this from the position that his lynch tells us nothing, it'd make a little more sense, but if he ends up being scum it is not. I never said that we should forget looking at everyone else either.
And THAT strikes me as all KINDS of bad. "he's not even sure that he's been slowkilled, because it's pure flavor and inference, but if we mislynch him, hey, he was going to die anyway, right?" NO! Bad! Arghle! Losing a townie by nightkill is bad, but losing a townie to mislynch is far worse, because a nightkilled townie doesn't represent a lost chance to kill scum. If there were any chance of Kyle actually being lynched today, I'd vote him over Pietro and Bill both, but that doesn't seem quite possible, so I'm going to read through the topic again and try to decide between our frontrunners. Offhand, I'd say I'm peaning towards Dread Peter.
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Correction: Sheriff Hutchison took me to see Jon Hutchins, who I remember being a good guy (despite not remembering anything he's actually done). Accursed similar last names!
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Not to press the issue or anything, but the sun's mighty low. If you'd be so kind as to make up your mind quickly...
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@Hellsnake: first off, your current role sounds actually very much like a Cult Leader, which is while not a Scum role nevertheless an inherently Anti-Town role. On top of that, several things about your play just do not add up, to the point where I'm not sure what to make of it.
@Hutchins: the massclaims, modulo Hadley, have all been strictly that of Millers, and I fully support claiming Miller at this point if you are one, but not any further role details, or anything at all about your role if you are not a Miller. Other than lending anti-credence to some of the more suspicious Millers about, it lets Pietro know who not to scan if he is to confirm himself to Town. Etc.
@Hellsnake: it's an hour to deadline, and I'm actually slightly more comfortable seeing you go than Pietro right now (though I'm still debating switching my vote, need to think about that just a little bit more before potentially doing so), so I suggest you fullclaim.
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Oh, believe me, I realize.
Anyway, on a reread, a comment I glossed over before: Bill's comment about breadcrumbing a THIRD power rankles me. Rather badly. As mentioned before, dropping power claims/hints as a "don't kill me or you'll be sorry" thing is not a move I associate with town.
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Not So Ninja: didn't see the actual claim. Um, Bulletproof Miller Reviver? Even with the Miller bit that's already an extremely powerful role, and we've already seen one Town BP flip. Not buying you as Town at this point, sorry.
##Unvote
##Vote: Bill Hellsnake
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I really only dropped one hint, mostly meant as a way to attract scum NKs tonight if they happened to notice it. I was not, in any way, hoping to need to fullclaim.
Ninja'd by Nikolai, nothing to say about the matter now, other than that I would really like a minute to figure all this Miller business out.
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Is EVERYBODY bulletproof in this burg? Did I miss out on kevlar genes or something?
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"Yeah, Ruskie, I was about to say as much about his third role. Kinda makes him unstoppable other than through lynch which REALLY doesn't sound friendly to me.
Declaring intent to put down the last vote, but I'll leave it a little while for discussion."
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I'm bulletproof because, uhh, superstrength and don't sleep. Good luck killing me by normal means. If you missed out on some neat items, try sleeping at Miskatonic U; maybe something will crawl up your nose too.
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Votecount.
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [5]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Ethan Hayles, Peyton Hadley, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Bill Hellsnake [7]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels, Seamus (Excal), Moses Bike, Chad Hutchins, Nathan Greaves, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Martin Andrews, Nathan Greaves.
Mr. Hellsnake is at L-1.
There is 1 hour left in Day 2. With 14 investigators, it takes 8 to lynch.
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And again, if someone with more mafia knowledge than me could please tell me what Third Party shows up as to Sane cops?
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I'm pretty sure that's up to the moderator's discretion.
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I can say this: If a cop or cops exist in this game, then I would have told the cop/cops the kind of results they get from Third Party. It'd be in their role PM.
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...huh. Well, crap.
Alright. Well. I'm thinking Moses' investigation only tells us that there are 4 scum, and one or two TP. Either that, or no TP, and one or two Millers. One of the two.
Either way, I'm thinking Pietro, at LEAST one of Seamus/The Russian, Kyle, and Chad are pretty safe places to look. Yes, I'm aware they're all against me, whatever. I don't care about that, I care about finding the right people. Btw, Seamus has something about his posts similar to Pietro. Can't place it yet, but somebody mind looking into that tonight/tomorrow?
Ninja'd by Mod: Still tells me nothing. Oh well.
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Hey, if we're gonna lynch me for sure, anybody mind if I get the last vote?
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Just someone do it and get it over with. 30 minutes til sundown after all.
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...why do you want to self-hammer? Seriously. Don't do that unless there is actually a clear and uncontested need to do so (i.e. to guarantee a lynch instead of a No Lynch occuring in setups where a hammer must occur to lynch someone), otherwise this says that you consider yourself Anti-Town enough to vote yourself, which, erm, grate.
Either that, or there's something ELSE about your role that you haven't made up yettold us yet, in which case, kindly do inform us about anything relevant that takes place when/if someone were to hammer you.
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Uhh... I want to hammer myself for shits and giggles? I said that if we are 100% lynching me, I want to have the hammer. If we're not, then awesome. I'm sorry I'm requesting to go out with style?
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Gah. Pietro and Bill both look either bad-scummy or bad-bad, and I can't decide between them. Pietro has the worse claim-timing, especially if Bill really is bulletproof and thus has nothing to fear from nightkills aimed at his ridiculous power role, but Bill's bulletproof claim smacks of scum flailing. Still torn. Still looking for something decisive I missed.
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I'm not sure how the bulletproof claim 'smacks of scum flailing.' I dropped a hint shortly after Peyton revealed his role, asking not to be targeted by him. It was because I didn't need it, and was hoping that that would invite scum NKs. As for what I actually gain of claiming it?
...
Nothing. I gain people having even less reason to believe me. I am fully aware of how super-powered the role is. I am fully aware of how the Miller claim alone almost got me lynched. No, if I were truly flailing, I would've claimed some sort of secret ultra-super-awesome power. Like, say, saving people from slow-kills. Wouldn't that have been a much better claim? Yes, yes it would have been. Or maybe I claimed that, if one specific thing happened, I lost all my powers. But no. Now if you have some reason to honestly believe it is scumflailing, aside from lullynchtarget, then please tell me. Because this isn't the first time that people have reacted this way, and it is quite stupid to start inherently disbelieving everything someone says when they're close to a lynch, because EVERYTHING can be dismissed as flailing, and it is downright idiotic. If there is a contradiction, fine. By all means, call me out on it, and lynch me. Others, shut up, and stop treating people like they're worthless when backed against the wall. Even Town is going to freak when their new tye consists of rope and death. Now everybody who doesn't have a real, honest-to-god reason to believe I'm lying, sit down and shut up. Everybody who doesn't have a real reason to believe Pietro is lying, do the same. Everybody who didn't have one yesterday for Tyrone should've done the same. And from now on, everyone should do the same. Being near lynch and freaking out is NOT A SCUMTELL.
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Well, Nikolai, considerin' we're approachin' the deadline an' he wants to make himself useful I say let him. C'mon, folks, like, 10 minutes. Seriously. I don't like this at all. Where the hell's that Nathan feller? Nothin' more ken really be said in these next ten minutes so let's just nut up and HAMMER, okay? Okay.
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((And here I was thinking MotK was the only forum where Mafia players had aneurysms. :|
Your 'I COULD HAVE CLAIMED SOMETHING EVEN STRONGER/WITH AN OBVIOUS FLAW' point is total WIFOM, and if you really wanted to selfhammer you'd have done it already. The jump from 'hurrselfhammer' to 'STOP INCRIMINATING ME' is the last straw, really.
##Hammer: Bill Hellsnake))
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Sherrif Hutchison was clearly frazzled. Everything had seemed okay, but now people were claiming to be depressed and to have been attacked after all? Was Hutchins' blood not enough for Callahan's accomplices? And Was any of this provable? "All right then. This's been a screwy day. Why, it feels like the clock just wouldn't move at all after 5:00 PM, as if we were trapped just before sunset... strange. Let's have a final show of votes."
Moses Bike [ 0]: Bill Hellsnake
Pietro [5]: Seamus (Excal), Peyton Hadley, Nathan Greaves, Moses Bike, Bill Hellsnake, Sam Hargreaves, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Ethan Hayles, Peyton Hadley, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Bill Hellsnake [8]: Moses Bike, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Pietro, Jack Daniels, Seamus (Excal), Moses Bike, Chad Hutchins, Nathan Greaves, Nikolai Kolmogorov, Nathan Greaves
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [ 0]: Sam Hargreaves, Bill Hellsnake, Chad Hutchins
Peyton Hadley [ 0]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Nikolai Kolmogorov [ 0]: Jack Daniels
No votes placed: Martin Andrews.
---
Pietro took a long swig of health tonic. "Hellsnake's dirty. I checked him out last night. Up to no good, ain't no question."
"Look. So, I've got a psychic roach up in my brain. I'll admit it's strange. But... AŠ-AZZIGA NISSU LAL-BAL! The dead heed my commands! Just wait, I swear, and help me find Aorako, and you shall be well-rewarded by the Master!" Hellsnake seemed under stress.
A bustle soon broke out as large numbers of people volunteered that they, too, were extremely suspicious yet actually innocent as newborn babes. The fisherman Moses, meanwhile, maintained a faroff look, claiming that last night was terrible and "the time was near." The Russian mathematician Kolmogorov and the shopkeeper Andrews, meanwhile, showed up tremendously late to the discussion, complaining of unusually powerful health tonics last night. Farmer Ethan Hayles and the writer Roland Dale bickered in a corner, and Peyton Hadley claimed he was here to save everyone from terrible beings from another dimension.
When the dust settled, the town's consensus was clear. "How do we know this roach really is asking for... what did you say... 'unity and peace'?! He could be telling you to kill us all!"
Hellsnake was taken aback. "No. NO! STOP! UNHAND ME!" Everyone around backed off in terror. "I only kill the bad people! And those who get in the way of Master's orders! Really, I'm fine! DIB AB-BA KI NAR, this is a place of sacred importance, I must not leave it till I have found Aorako!"
Sherrif Hutchison had had enough. "If this man isn't a killer, he's crazy. Roaches in his nose! Seems everyone else agrees. Arrest him, boys."
"BACK OFF!" Hellsnake yelled. "I... I... ZU IGI EXŠE GUR." And then the noise of an ear-shattering explosion went off.
When everyone turned back, there was no trace of Hellsnake but a blackened mark on the floor... though the Sherrif thought he heard a subtle skittering even after the explosion, but one that was gone too soon to track.
"Uh. I guess... I guess... he had a grenade on him! And some kind of flashfire burned his body, and the explosion threw the remains into the air, on the wind. That's... that's gotta be it."
Moses returned an hour later, saying he'd found his old Ancient Sumerian dictionary from his time at Miskatonic University himself. "I'm not entirely sure what it was he was saying, but I think... something like... 'This vessel is insufficient. Dance with joy.' I... I don't know what to make of it either."
William Hellsnake, Town Bulletproof Miller Reviver, was lynched! (Immune to normal nightkills. Returns "scum" to sane cops and "town" to insane cops. Revival is conditional on if "The Stars Are Right;" brings back a vanilla townie if Stars Are Right, but a voteless and roleless abomination which collapses in a day if "Stars Are Silent." Revival can only happen Night 3, is informed of condition of Stars Night 2. The Stars Are Right if no scum are dead by the end of Day 2.)
---
It is now Night 2. You have 24 hours to get your night actions in.
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Go To Hell(Snake)
Another Special Guest Article By Nathan Greaves
Title Stolen From Courtesy Of The Deceased
New twists and turns are emerging in the ongoing investigation into the death of Jon Hutchins, this reporter can reveal.
Yet more accusations were thrown between neighbours and newcomers as Marbury's plea for justice continues to grow louder. A non-local was accused of the murder this time - William 'Bill' Hellsnake, a travelling bountry hunter whose purpose for visiting Marbury lay shrouded in mystery.
Ready to find the killer once again, Marbury was torn between accusing Hellsnake and supposed mafioso Pietro Giovanni, until Hellsnake began to make supernatural claims to explain people's suspicions of him. Listeners were baffled at his claims of nigh-invincibility, and his reported ability to bring people back from death itself. After some deliberation, the town's eye finally settled on Hellsnake with the intent on testing his claim of being unkillable.
The accused man apparently was more on the ball than his would-be executioners, though, performing his own death sentence when it became clear he would not survive the day. He was reported to begin speaking in a mysterious foreign language, which resident Moses Bike has identified to be ancient Sumerian. Only a few seconds after claiming that his vessel was insufficient, Hellsnake promptly disappeared from the face of the earth, leaving only an ear-rending explosion in his wake.
The Sheriff has once again stated that the events surrounding Hellsnake's death - and by proxy, the death of Jon Hutchins two days ago - are completely explainable through logical means. Everyone else involved, though, is much less willing to accept that claim as they attempt to settle down for another night of sleep.
Police have described their own findings as 'inconclusive', but the inquiry remains ongoing.
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It had been a tough day for Pietro, with all the accusations against him. When he was trying to do what he could! Why didn't they understand? He stayed at Rosie's Inn long past closing, only getting up to wander to the little home he rented while staying in Marbury very late. That was when he saw the shadow fall across his path, the other figure barely visible in the dim light of Pietro's lamp.
"Oh. It's you. Whaddaya want now of all times?"
"..."
"I see. It all makes sense now. You were in on it too. I'm not surprised. This town... not a single soul to be saved from God's brimstone. Patrick... I'm sorry I couldn't find your killer."
----
There was a minor ruckus in the morning. Everyone knows fishers are early to rise, but they're normally... quiet? Not smashing around the docks. As it happens, Marbury resident Leopold Brewster casually fishes in his retirement, and was there to witness the scene. Moses Bike was ranting to anyone who would listen.
"Our DOOM! I tell you! It lies beneath these waves! And it is by the hand of Man it was brought here!" Bike paused to draw in more air. "Rath'napula! It feeds and grows every day. Soon, the mere fish of this lake will not be enough for it. It calls for blood. And I say we shall give it some! Man's mistakes shall be solved by Man!" At this point Bike pointed to his heavy-looking backpack. "These blasting caps are sealed and perfectly usable underwater to set off this dynamite! All that is needed is to summon our nemesis from the depths and see which side shall win this epic clash of Man and... not Nature, but the Other!"
Bike then pushed a box of... bloodied small forest animals into the lake? The spectators were unsure what to make of it.
"Yes, Rath'napula! You can't resist that, can you? Now.. can you resist this?!" And... Bike jumped into the lake?!
"You fools! After him!" But before anyone could jump in as well, an underwater explosion went off... making it quite clear what the result of any rescue attempt could be.
Only minutes later, Deputy Webster came running down to the lake for entirely coincidental reasons.
"Mr. Brewster! It's terrible! Pietro Giovanni's been found dead near his home, his body pushed into some bushes! And... someone shot my dog! Beano was harmless and everyone loved him! What's going on around here?!"
----
Deputy Webster was still beside himself when he got back. "God. Jon's funeral was supposed to be today... some place he specified, up in the mountains, a stone altar the Order sometimes used. I'm not even sure we can get there with all this to investigate."
Sherrif Hutchison wasn't sure where to begin with all that had happened, either. But he was a man who honored his social obligations. "We'll... we'll just have to move the investigation up to the mountains with it, then. Come on, fellas, we're taking a ride. Chad, I know you were already going, but we'll be taking these other suspects along, see if they know anything about these recent killings."
Moses Bike, Town Archivist, went crazy and jumped in a lake! (Can read a single book in collection a night. Books offer various tidbits of information about the setup of the game.)
Pietro Giovanni, Town Paranoid Cop, was murdered over night! (Knew* he was paranoid; got useless scum results from all investigations. Appears as just "Cop" to Rolecops. Investigation has additional property of stripping Godfather / Godfather variants permanently, and sending to true scum investigated a message that 'someone is on to you and investigated you last night!' to spread paranoia.)
*(To emphasize the above and in the spirit of full role flips, yes, *knew* he was paranoid, he had a mod-guarantee of paranoid-sanity, Tom was just playing it a bit coy when he said "flavor hinted I might not be sane")
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A few people have shot me "buh?" messages on the flips, so one other meta note, since I figure it can probably help to say it again. To reiterate something I noted in the signup thread: there will be role madness in this game, but the effective power level of the roles is if anything slightly less than Meme Mafia, or at least comparable to it. I stand by this sentiment; I'm definitely a fan of emphasizing scumhunting and town winning by proper lynches rather than roles dominating everything. Make of that what you will. (For those not in Meme Mafia, it had a fullcop, an inventor / jack-of-all-trades, a 50% odds bulletproof, and 9 players with minor roles for Town vs. a Hijacker (redirect night actions), a rolecop / roleblocker, 1 minor scum role, and a Godfather for scum vs. a 3P serial killer variant.)
---
It is Day 3. It is now Potential LYLO, so there will be no deadline, and lynchs only by majority. (yes this sucks.)
This phase is more on the "potential" side of LYLO; town stands good odds of making it to Day 4 even with a mislynch. As such, if things bog down with no hammer after 72 hours, I may set a deadline to keep the game moving, depending on circumstances.
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what
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Ugh. I don't want to think about this right now but I have an important question that must be posed:
So, Nikolai and Seamus. How's that Miller status goin' for you?
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*(To emphasize the above and in the spirit of full role flips, yes, *knew* he was paranoid, he had a mod-guarantee of paranoid-sanity, Tom was just playing it a bit coy when he said "flavor hinted I might not be sane")
DOT DOT FUCKING DOT.
As it is potential LYLO, I'm not going to throw around a vote willy-nilly. But ## Finger of get your ass into the topic or else: Kylo Handley. Your Day 1 fixation on flavor still looks bad to me, your Day 2 posts look worse, and you've got nothing else going for you.
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Chad nods to the Sheriff, then walks over to the side of the casket, head bowed, for a prayer and eulogy before it's loaded into the hearse.
"Pop was a good man."
Hoarse, he stands a moment longer, trying to find words. Then he digs something out of his pocket and starts to fiddle with it. The pallbearers notice the match being struck a second before Chad throws it into the casket; he turns around afterwards and stops them from approaching as flames begin to rise from his father's body.
"... Probably."
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Now then, folks. How about we show our respect by not going up to any altars in the mountains, and figurin out what's goin on.
Somebody did something to me last night and I'm not sure what. Feels like I'm on the brink of some revelation, and that somebody is helping me from the shadows. For a given value of help. Might be the slowkill "helping" me throw myself in the lake tomorrow, I dunno, it's a sort of positive feeling unlike what Moses described but lord knows what is up with this game now. Anyone else had unusual stuff happen?
I'm not hot on Kyle Handley today, which probably ain't surprisin no one. Gonna have to do a lotta readin beyond that.
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Peyton looks at the notebook in his hand. One half is full of quotes cribbed from Nathan Greaves's record of Pietro Giovanni and William Hellsnake. Two dead men, now. Neither, for all their strangeness, involved in the Marbury murders.
The other half is full of sketches of a strange stoke altar and the Mythos symbology he found there last night.
Why, it almost looks like the sort of information Bill Hellsnake was after, before he was... ended.
"Hell of a time for it," Peyton mutters. He laughs, because what else can he do?
Nothing, except cast a tired glance at the skies. Sometimes, he can't help but wonder if the universe ain't uncaring and impersonal at all, but actively toying with men's lives for its twisted amusement.
Nothing, except leave the notebook in a rain barrel with only a match for company.
-----
Enough flavor for now.
My last big reread that I never had time to post? Almost completely useless now, because both people it was about are dead. And Town. Somehow.
There IS a silver lining to this cloud, though.
After yesterday, I very much expect we would have mislynched Pietro today. I certainly would have wanted to! (God, I retroactively want to even more knowing he was actually confirmed paranoid, which makes his play even worse. Somehow.) Ahem.
Anyway, my point is, Scum may have actually saved us a day.
ON TO ACTUAL SUSPECTS
Kyle Handley hasn't visibly done anything NEW, so all I have on him is his Day 1 aggressiveness against Moses on a flavor basis, followed by his weird jump to Hellsnake at the beginning of Day 2. With a side order of lurking!
Seamus O'Malley's play at the end of Day 2 looks somewhat suspicious to me. He switched to Hellsnake using very shaky logic right after Hellsnake announced he had a powerful role. There was plenty bad in the snake's play at the end of Day 2, but it was anything BUT convenient. Nor does it look "too powerful" compared to Bulletproof Bodyguard, IMO. Hell, one game I played here Town had a FULL DAY REVIVER. Scum would know the snake was town and PROBABLY not lying (though who knows? See Giovanni, Pietro) and would NOT want him to stick around. Plus, he's one of our possible extra Millers. Seamus was on Hellsnake on Day 1, too, and in both cases his reasons were shaky.
Chad Hutchins did the same thing as Seamus, switching back to Hellsnake after he claimed a powerful role. His actual reasoning for doing this seems stronger than Seamus's (mostly Hellsnake's bizarre play at the end of the day). I disagreed and still do, but I can see a townie making those arguments. But, I'm still troubled by the people who jumped onto Hellsnake when he revealed his power. Almost everything else Chad has done (except his early Day 2 case on Kyle/Sopko) appears to be flavor-driven.
And then today Chad goes and possibly blows confirmed townie Moses's plan to see if Kolmogorov is the slowkiller.
So yeah.
(Also, Chad? What's this about not going up to altars? This is a relevant question.)
Nicolai Kolmogorov was one of the people who voted for Ty Callahan during what Moses felt was the critical period on Day 1. Until the very end of Day 2 he was otherwise a non-presence; claimed he wasn't available to play, we'll see after the game I suppose. (Martin Andrews avoids my suspicion for this because his player wasn't on at ALL.) Possibly the slowkiller, could be Scum, 3rd Party or Town.
Pity we may not be able to test that now.
Other than that, Kolmogorov drops the cult leader bomb about Hellsnake not long after I pointed out that cult leader is a role we explicitly COULD NOT have according to the Mod's limits (no alignment switching).
And Kolmogorov is yet another person who switches to Hellsnake after seeing the power of his role. He does it explicitly, at least, which I consider in his favor - somewhat.
Oh, also, is another possible (probable?) extra Miller.
To me these four are ahead of the pack in terms of being suspicious, but fairly close to each other.
I think Seamus probably looks the worst of the four right now, but I'll hold off on voting since we're in potential LYLO.
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I switched to Hellsnake after he claimed Miller, poorly. Just didn't actually move vote until later (but would have anyway the way the day was goin).
Not goin to altars is just flavor.
I did mess up with the quick claim and apologize, nobody else say nothin yet I guess. The silver lining there is that the flavor I got is at least definitive enough to say it doesn't seem to be related to Nikolai's claimed power at all.
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I'll just say this, while my switch to Hellsnake was somewhat suspicious, my case was pretty sound, and one that people agreed with to an extent even before his claiming/randomness shenanigans. I wasn't around unfortunately for the rest of the day and I'll make no excuses, since getting bogged down in that won't help anyone. In other news, I'm completely lost, but I'll try my best.
I (somewhat) only seem to be picking up on the off-the-beaten-track types of cases. Someone I've really been looking at is Nathan Greaves. There's no way that no scum couldn't be on both lynches. The list of people who were on both numbers 5. The confirmed townies Moses and Pietro, and then Nicolai, Jack Daniels and Nathan Greaves. All three look pretty suspicious to me, but Nathan moreso. A case of serious active lurking if ever there was one. The duration of Day 1 sees him hop around from vote to vote with no real convictions before it lands on the fully developed train of Tyrone with no real justification other than it's the train that's developed. Here's the post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104656.html#msg104656) for reference. Proceeds to make weak justifications after the fact.
Day 2 has him doing much of the same, dropping a Pietro vote for "pressure" and prodding him and one or two other people weakly a bit after that, but mostly not posting. Check out the 24 hr time difference between this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105148.html#msg105148) and his next one (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105354.html#msg105354). After all that time all he really does is state the obvious of the situation. He goes on to play around with the vote a bit, claim to delay the hammer for discussion (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105481.html#msg105481) (which he does not take part in) and then hammers.
Nicolai has the serious lurker case going against him. Upon returning he did put up some original content at least, more than I thought Martin did at least (BTW Peyton, why exactly do you write Martin off entirely? Or am I misinterpreting your statement there and it only applies to one specific part of your argument?). But... there's really nothing there. I have to go back and read his Day 1 contributions, if any.
Jack is... Jack. I can't get a handle on him, but I can't help but think there is something there. Being on both lynches combined with the miller claim and all. The odds of at least one of Jack or Nathan being scum are very high, and the sort of counter-claim that Jack made in response to Bill seems like a relatively decent scum move. I'll agree that it could be that every one of the people that claimed miller could be town! But this combo makes me uneasy.
I could honestly see all of them as scum/third party. I haven't really checked their posts for any sort of collusion between them though.
On another note, Ronald Dale is the only one that has not been on either one of the lynches. Not bad in itself, but he's been another nebulous figure this game, at least during Day 1. Day 2 he was a bit more active, but I haven't read him close enough to get a handle on it. I'll probably return with that.
Chad is... odd to me. I agree with Peyton about the flavor orientation but in all honesty I can't throw anything at his feet yet.
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In the interest of fairness, I would have probably been one of those people on the list of both lynches as well if I'd not been beaten to the punch at laying down the L-1 and Hammer votes.
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Alright... been holding back because a simple reaction post doesn't help, and hopefully collecting my thoughts will give us one or two things to help us out.
Hadley, it's been a while since the last time you played here. Roles like that led to a long string of mostly Vanilla games. As for my case on Hellsnake, pretty sure I mentioned the whole way in which he played the Miller card, which really did scream of wanting someone to be cop-like and gone after him so that he had an excuse to say that he was a Miller. Just the coy way he asked random role-fishing questions before blurting out a brand new tidbit like we should all be in awe of him for stating it. As for the shakiness of my cases, they make sense to me, which means I must be doing a piss poor job of explaining them.
Now, onto people I find look interesting.
Nikolai still stands out. I'm thinking that the Miller claims are null tells now, since unless Jack and Nikolai are both scum, Bike's theory about there being four scum and two Millers is bunk. However, most of my suspicions hang around his not being here, and unlike Martin, making that one placeholder and never following through on it.
Hayles - My #3 choice for Day 2, his one post since I mentioned him doesn't ease my thoughts in any way, shape or form. It's basically a post where he states the case for both contenders, but his vote is made to even things out. Not to state which one he finds more guilty, but rather to encourage the two remaining tied. He's not really tied to the rest of what happened, but still worth a look.
Mr. Martin.
One of the things I've noticed going over his posts is this.
1) Hellsnake's rolefishing is.......dumb. So incredibly dumb. But not necessarily scummy. In fact, kind of dumb-towny, the way I read it, if only because a hypothetical Scumsnake would already know that, if Bike is town, he's not a cop, unless of course he's lying and thereby giving useless info anyway. Millersnake, by contrast, does have a good reason to ask, although he should have been up-front about why.
Now, here's the thing. He's talking about what Hellsnake should have known. Now, what I find interesting is that what Martin seems to feel that scumsnake should know isn't Bike's alignment, but his role. Specifically, he should have a better idea of what Bike's role is than if he were town, which implies that Scum know more than was stated publically.
Which raises the question, if scum do know this, then how does Martin know that scum know this?
Finally, Mr. Greaves. With Mr. Handley's suggestion he might be scum, I took a look at the voting record. The journalist is on both trains, and he does jump on them both late. But, his presence on Hellsnake is as the lynching vote. And given how Day 2 ended, I could see anyone doing the final blow after the "I'm gonna kill myself! No, really!" finale the Hellsnake pulled off.
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Will have a full post up in a bit, but first, as per our good friend Moses Bike's request, I scanned my salesman friend Handley (i.e. Soppy). Now then, Kyle Handley, did you run into similar nightmarish visions as our good friend Bike, or into something completely different? Were you informed of anything at all by the mod that could correspond to my night action, for that matter? (NB: this is not a rolefish. If you think it's overly broad, don't answer this part of the question. I don't think it is, however.)
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My, I go visiting the next village for one afternoon, and everything goes to hell. Even my notes from last night are pretty much useless after Pietro's flip.
Jack, I think the more important question is, how's that Miller status goin' for you?
In the meantime, I follow Bike's reasoning that a fourth Millerclaim makes no sense for scum. Which means either we have at least three millers, or both Daniels and O'Malley jumped in there as scum, which I think only makes any sort of sense if Pietro is scum we have at least three millers. Which in turn actually makes me wonder if they couldn't all be true, because if you're going to have three then hell, why not four?
That said, O'Malley is definitely deserving of scrutiny. So too, on thinking about it, is Jack; looking back I realised that, while I had the impression he'd been contributing a lot, I couldn't remember a single thing he'd said. Proper reread of both will have to wait until this evening, by which time hopefully we'll have some more clarity on what Jack was asking about.
I've already spent longer than I've really got on this, but I can't reasonably put off the Dale reread any longer. He comes out better than I was expecting; is giving reasoned positions when he contributes (which is not often, but if we're going after that then Andrews is the worst. (Incidentally, that sucks massively. He's not contributed, but we can't afford to lynch him at this stage either. I would've preferred a modkill if I'm honest; at this stage I just hope the game lasts long enough for him to turn things around)). The one thing I would flag up is that he makes the most tiny unverifiable partial claim imaginable (we are never going to prove that there's no godfather), almost to get in on the roleclaiming action while everyone else is, but I don't think that's a huge issue.
5x ninjas (yes, I really have spent an hour reading back, and it hasn't been enough) unread.
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Will have a full post up in a bit, but first, as per our good friend Moses Bike's request, I scanned my salesman friend Handley (i.e. Soppy). Now then, Kyle Handley, did you run into similar nightmarish visions as our good friend Bike, or into something completely different? Were you informed of anything at all by the mod that could correspond to my night action, for that matter? (NB: this is not a rolefish. If you think it's overly broad, don't answer this part of the question. I don't think it is, however.)
I did not experience visions of any kind, nor was I informed by the mod of anything that could correspond to a night action.
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Ack. Wanted to re-read the notes on all this durin the night, but guess I be doin that now.
Right quick now, I just wanna say somethin on this before rereadin:
In the meantime, I follow Bike's reasoning that a fourth Millerclaim makes no sense for scum.
If Jack/Seamus be scum, then maybe. If all three be Town, then Moses' theory on his N1 info means nothin, so it's, at worst for 'em, a 1:1 trade, and 3:1 at best.
Need to read over the appearances of Nikolai and Martin mostly, although wanna take a re-read of Bardale and Sopkyle too. This post has somehow taken me almost an hour, so don't expect me to be around soon, but expect a lotta input when I do get back.
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And here's me failing to use the right account again. Sigh. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105645.html#msg105645)
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"Well, there goes a good man. I'll make sure to pass his name on to the obituaries for ya, kid.
Anyway. Think there's some important facts to be pulling from tonight. Namely, the fact that Pietro got killed when there are still three claimed millers out there. More than likely, the killer is someone outside of that group - in other words, someone who Pietro was still a threat to.
I find it hard to believe that the slowkiller would outright claim his actions when he knew they would incriminate him, so I don't think we're dealing with a slowkilling Peyton/Nikolai here. Then again, there's an important question in 'how exactly did Moses get slowkilled when Peyton claimed to be covering him that night?' Maybe the slowkill is doc-immune, or maybe Peyton is putting on his own little show.
Also of interest is what he says here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105379.html#msg105379):
But I'll say this. I don't believe we're going to figure out the 3-Miller business without somebody dying.
He says this, and then proceeds to leave his vote on Pietro for the entire day. Not only does that make it pretty akin to cheerleading, but there's also the aforemented point of people outside of the miller claims that were scared of Pietro's powers likely being responsible for his death.
Finally, there's the fact he claimed Bodyguard/BP, when we now have two confirmed dead Bulletproofs. Two is already ridiculous enough. Three is just too much to really believe.
##FoS: Peyton Hadley
Chad's claim, like with Moses, should be left and checked to see if it's genuine. There might be a difference, but we won't know until we look.
Millers are still here. Daniels is the clearest of the three to me for his timing, and O'Malley as I said before is iffy for counterclaiming the counterclaim. Nikolai I don't think is the slowkiller, unless he's really enough of a maniac to publically declare his target. Doesn't rule him out as scum, though. I don't remember those last two having any real impact yesterday either, so they both need to get in here and help out rather than lurk like nuts.
Hadley still seems to add up the best for me, though, with Nikolai and O'Malley both looking about as bad as each other at the moment."
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Hayles - My #3 choice for Day 2, his one post since I mentioned him doesn't ease my thoughts in any way, shape or form. It's basically a post where he states the case for both contenders, but his vote is made to even things out. Not to state which one he finds more guilty, but rather to encourage the two remaining tied. He's not really tied to the rest of what happened, but still worth a look.
Assuming you mean this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105294.html#msg105294)? I specified'at I found Pietro scummy for 'is lurkin ((why hullo thar hypocrisy)) and his convenient misinformed claim. (Turns out that were just 'im lyin. wut.) I weren't just tyin the two for the sake o'tyin 'em.
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Other than that, Kolmogorov drops the cult leader bomb about Hellsnake not long after I pointed out that cult leader is a role we explicitly COULD NOT have according to the Mod's limits (no alignment switching).
Actually, he don't at all. All he says on the matter is:
If Hellsnake is scum and lying we should lynch him now, not days from now. Even if he IS a reviver, that don't make him town. What's to stop him from bein oh maybe like third party Aothingy cult and the guy he revives joins him in it? Just as a possibility.
Highly unlikely, and I'm not sure if he is lying. I'm still more convinced that Pietro is lying at this point. As for the whole cult aspect, alignment-switching/rules/etc.
's far as I can tell, he's sayin what you said about that bein impossible due to the rules. ('though some clarification on that from Nikolai wouldn't go amiss)
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Chad, if yer really thinkin yer set to die overnight, make sure to let us know anythin that might help. Not askin you to tell us everythin, just anythin that might help us. ((Yes, I'm a little annoyed about Bike holding back information because 'it might not be a kill', only to wind up dead.))
((inb4rolefishing. This is entirely based on whether Chad has information that'll help -Town-, and since I'm pretty certain he's Town, personally, I figure he'll be a good judge of what is worth revealing and what isn't.))
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Overall views? I've 'alf a mind to follow me instincts and vote for Jack. He was one of the main voices on the first day, and has kinda trailed off since, but... hrm. There's somethin else about 'im, just can't place it.
As it is, I'm gonna follow logic instead and...go back to my original case. What with the misrep of Nikolai I mentioned above, Nathan's point ((the second one, about "Millers are suspicious!" *leave vote on Pietro* - not liking the WIFOM/role meta there, thinkin on it, though!)) and, o'course, my previous thing about fluffing out 'is posts - yes, he has some input, but nowhere near as much as it seems just by scanning his posts - he seems to be playin a pretty typical active-scum game.
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Working, can't draw up a full post for another few hours yet, but wanted to respond to this while I've got a minute:
Mr. Martin.
One of the things I've noticed going over his posts is this.
1) Hellsnake's rolefishing is.......dumb. So incredibly dumb. But not necessarily scummy. In fact, kind of dumb-towny, the way I read it, if only because a hypothetical Scumsnake would already know that, if Bike is town, he's not a cop, unless of course he's lying and thereby giving useless info anyway. Millersnake, by contrast, does have a good reason to ask, although he should have been up-front about why.
Now, here's the thing. He's talking about what Hellsnake should have known. Now, what I find interesting is that what Martin seems to feel that scumsnake should know isn't Bike's alignment, but his role. Specifically, he should have a better idea of what Bike's role is than if he were town, which implies that Scum know more than was stated publically.
Which raises the question, if scum do know this, then how does Martin know that scum know this?
The assumption is that townies do not lie outright in their roleclaims. Obviously *glares at Pietro* that assumption is....not perfect. But it's my experience that when you claim your role, one of the consequences is that town still doesn't know if you're lying scum or not, while the actual scum don't have that little quandary.
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And for all that's happened since my last post, I could've left it until now. Bah, timezones.
As it is, I'm gonna follow logic instead and...go back to my original case. What with the misrep of Nikolai I mentioned above, Nathan's point ((the second one, about "Millers are suspicious!" *leave vote on Pietro* - not liking the WIFOM/role meta there, thinkin on it, though!)) and, o'course, my previous thing about fluffing out 'is posts - yes, he has some input, but nowhere near as much as it seems just by scanning his posts - he seems to be playin a pretty typical active-scum game.
Hayles, this would be a lot clearer if you actually said who it was you were talking about.
Lots of little pieces of carelessness from Hutchins, but if anything at this stage that's more likely to be third party than scum. If he's the slowkiller (and either didn't kill, or - and this fits even better in my eyes - went after everyone's favourite target after yesterday, Pietro) then what he's said today makes a pretty clever claim; takes the heat off him, yet lets him dodge when he turns up tomorrow still alive, and no risk of anyone counterclaiming. But either way we leave him alive, at least for today; at this stage not going after scum would be pretty much suicidal.
Leaving the claimed millers aside for now, I'm looking to Had...Han... Kyle (Soppy, realise it's a bit late to be asking for things like this, but mind putting your character name at the top of your posts like Bardiche is doing?). Latest posts looks better; is posting a variety of cases. I'll read over Greaves next and will post if I find anything interesting, but for now, I disagree with O'Malley's assessment; a hammer is still a vote, no less important than any other, and even at L-1, Hellsnake was by no means certain to be the day's lynch. And while Hellsnake's request to selfhammer was (of course) bad, stupid play, I don't think it really outshone the rest of the day in that regard. Putting both Handley and O'Malley aside for now, along with all the lurker-types, until we've sorted this miller business a little.
On which point, just in case I wasn't clear enough earlier: Jack, please expand on your Miller role, to the maximum extent you feel comfortable doing.
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Votecount: There are no votes. (Though I guess I could keep a FoS count if others start casting them, but there's only one of those so far.)
Deadlinecount: There is no deadline.
Danacount: There is no Dana, only Zuul.
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is potential LYLO.
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Ronald Dale;
世上无难事，只怕有心人.
Thinking on the other day, I review old guy statements. Look like slow kill actually there, however, there is problem with this. Unless there is town movement in slowkilling him, this means Mafia has two nightkill powers.
He said that there were no more than six scum; four from inside, two from outside. I wonder if this means four millers and two actual scum? Four inside group of uninformed majority, two outside group of uninformed majority? I knowing there one Godfather on scum side, this mean four-scum game. I don't think this is unimportant. It means someone can claim a total farce of a role combined with Bulletproof with the knowledge no Cops can sniff 'em out. If they claim a defence role like Bodyguard with it so they can hide their slow-kill powers...
死马当活马医, we must lynch scum today. I will re-read thread again, scan for important things. Not sure when I'll deliver, probably tomorrow.
Pietro dying leave much problem, as PE#1 die... or whatever the heck his name was... probably looking at Nathan Greaves, Peyton and Sopko the most.
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Ronald Dale;
Four-scum game? Hell... what am I thinking... I of course mean a three scum game, two of which are observable and one of which is Godfather.
Yes, I am heavily implying I'm suspicious of Peyton's role now that Bike's slowkill was actually true even though he was guarded, meaning either Peyton's lying about his role or there was a slowkiller who could bypass that kind of crap.
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"Actually, before I go take a nap ((read: go to bed)), one more question for Hadley. Who the hell did you target last night? To get more to the point, why weren't you covering Pietro? Were you so sure he was scum that you were willing to let the guy who'd claimed cop get killed no problem if you were wrong, when there were no other particularly good targets? That claim of yours is starting to look reeeeeal shaky, pal."
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Sorry, all, extremely busy today. :( Will not be able to post any flavor, and possibly not any more at all after this.
Nathan: I targeted the person I think may be the actual Cop, not the obvious fakeclaim. He's posted and hasn't mentioned suffering any slowkill effects, and I'd rather not say who it is because unlike Pietro, I have reason to believe he may be an actual useful Cop.
Of course I was willing to let Pietro die. He played literally the scummiest game I've ever seen, and throwing out an "I'm a cop - but probably useless lol" claim at the end of a day in which he should have hung doesn't change that. Need I remind you that the last we heard of him before he died, he'd just gotten a powerful town role lynched by asspulling that cop claim at the end of Day 2 and then riding it to a bunch of people jumping to Hellsnake?
You've got to be off your rocker if you think I'd lift a finger to save him.
Dale: I told Moses yesterday that I could probably only stop non-magical effects.
Also, so far it looks like the Scum may have had a ONE SHOT extra nightkill, since no one seems to be suffering from a slowkill today. Considering the power of at least one of the Town roles we know we had, is that really such a shock?
Ethan: You're right, Kolmogorov did correctly point out that the Mod ruled out roles like Cult Leader (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105386.html#msg105386). That makes his assertion here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105476.html#msg105476), during the ramp-up to Hellsnake being lynched, even stranger. Since we know - and Kolmogorov specifically acknowledged, as you point out - that Hellsnake couldn't have been a cult leader, what's the point of throwing that out there?
All: To anyone who thinks I'm Scum - who do YOU think was the nightkill target on Night 1? Whoever it was, if it wasn't me, had best step forward and claim it. Of course, the liar then guarantees a 1:1 Scum/Town trade (barring more Town liars, because... yeah), and even in potential LYLO I doubt the Scum are willing to do that.
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((H'okay, before I go through re-reading stuff and making a coherent argument (which hopefully won't be wrong because cripes haven't I been so wrong so far), I'm going to say this.
The miller claims aren't necessarily a good scumtell after last (game) night. I have very good reason to believe that many of the townies were actually cast as Millers. I'm... hesitant to say more, at the risk of tipping too much off at scum. In fact, had I read my PM more closely last (real) night I probably wouldn't have said anything at all, though on the other hand it helps town to know not to be focusing too much on the miller claims. I'm not sure any of the claimed-millers are any less suspicious as of yet, but if they are it isn't because of their miller claim.))
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Hadley: What if scum had a choice between slowkill and a normal NK? (It'd be risky, but if you were going to use that kind of power at all, N1 is the time to do it, leaving us with just one flip to work from D2 - and if this is what happened then it's worked out pretty well for them). Then scumYou could safely make the claim you have, and look like a very valuable town role.
Jack, it's great how you want us to think the miller claims aren't so suspicious when you're one of them. Forgive me if I'm finding you more suspicious rather than less. Again, I want more detail on your specific miller status.
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Ronald Dale;
Peyton: You bring up a filastifilic point. Asking who we think was the N1 target does point me only at "scum may have a slowkill ability", but given that my misgivings about you are solely role-related I admit I've nothing further to say until I do the research.
Anyone happen to know the game date?
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It's too dang early fer flavor or forming arguments, just addressin Hargreaves.
((Egh, fine, I don't see the harm in this (other than it makes me more suspicious) unless whoever did it roleclaims (hint: DON'T DO IT christ why do I have to tell people that). That, and this information (if you choose to believe it) helps town sort out the Miller nonsense.
Specifically, I am no longer a miller, just a vanilla townie. Somebody's night action targetted me, and took away my miller status. Flavor-wise, this action gave me very much the opposite of what happened to Bike -- I'm feeling very euphoric and all that nonsense. Speakin' of flavor...))
Since we're talkin' an' all that, Hargreaves... you seem t' know some things that shock me. Some things yeh do, some o' the songs yeh sing when liquored up... you serve in the war, son?
((Actually, speaking of my night PM I need to address chad some flavor wise but I just woke up. Deal with mafia this afternoon instead. so many walls of text. so many))
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I... see. Nothing's happened to me that I know of.
Re: Martin. Eh, true. And it's not like now, when it is plausible for people to have multiple roles.
Alright, looking at where we're sitting, there's 11 of us. Even given four scum, that still needs three people to die for us to lose. So, given that five scum is grossly unbalanced and a fair bit more likely to cause game over than the flavour indicates, I think we need to assume four scum with the ability to doublekill somehow. Also, that if there is a slowkill, then it'll have to already be in play on a Townie. Unfortunately, no one seems to have the same symptoms as poor ol' Bike did, which means if it is in play, then scum can change the flavour of it in order to keep people from knowing who it is they targetted.
Unfortunately, I've got nothing further out of looking at the setup than this, since after this point it's all WIFOM without more info. And I'm not sure it's worth any more of our time today barring some kind of revelation. However, it is flexible enough that I can see a fake claim of being a NK target if the standard kill doesn't have to be used every night.
One last thing for right now, I gave Ronbard another look with the newer stuff in play and... given him a clean bill of health. Most of the things that've been giving me issues have mostly been Bardisms, and otherwise, he's been helpful enough.
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Eeesh... Aye, Daniels, I was there in the war. But that was a long time ago. Though not nearly long enough. Let's concentrate on more recent horrors.
It's a mighty strange thing you say has happened to you, but with the way things've been going lately... I think I believe you, for now. Which leaves us with... nothing from the miller claims, and back to good old scumhunting. (Though, have we remembered that the 6/4 could be three millers and one godfather?)
People who've posted enough without smelling scum: Hadley, Daniels (given above), Dale (barely), Hutchins (see previous post), Kolgomorov-ish.
Therefore, people I'm worried about: Greaves, O'Malley, Hayles, Handley, Andrews.
Andrews... has actually been contributing positively. Is still champion lurker, but if that's our best case today... well, I really hope it isn't.
Handley's post today reads very well to me, picking a few things up, and not wasting time focusing on self-defence. Doesn't completely excuse previous days, but makes me feel a lot better about him.
The case against Greaves' voting has been made. What he's said has been generally OK though, and he has contributed some valid arguments. I can't fairly judge his end-of-day-1 poking at me; is it a silly nitpick or a genuine issue?
Hayles: day 1, weak lurker case on Dale, then very late on the Callahan train. Day 2, early vote on Hadley with a dubious reporting case, followed by some wordy self-defense. This looks worse on a reread; there're a lot of words, but very little in the way of original cases. Eventually drops that case, which I guess is better than continuing it, though to my eyes Hadley is much the same D1 and D2, then gets on Pietro, but as has been mentioned, "to even the scores" is half his argument.
I see O'Malley was starting to make a case on Hayles here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105152.html#msg105152), which makes me feel slightly better about him. Then this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105284.html#msg105284) puts him right back again, for the plain acceptance of Pietro's role, even to the point of being suspicious of Hadley. And his post just now gives us only some weird speculation that he himself seems to admit is useless. AFAICS the slowkiller could be ITP (now I've gotten confused on this before, but 3 scum + 3rd party SK would still qualify this as potential LYLO, right?) or town, so the assumption in "if it is in play, then scum can change the flavour of it" seems premature.
Summing up, I think for scumminess Hayles > O'Malley > Greaves > Handley, and Andrews probably belongs somewhere in the middle for want of enough posts to judge from. ##FoS: Hayles; not 100%, but if I had to vote now, that's where it'd be, and we're going to have to lynch sooner or later.
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Nathan: I targeted the person I think may be the actual Cop, not the obvious fakeclaim. He's posted and hasn't mentioned suffering any slowkill effects, and I'd rather not say who it is because unlike Pietro, I have reason to believe he may be an actual useful Cop.
"And that reason is...what? What reason could you have other than reading real well into this player of yours to assume we had both a paranoid Cop and a real Cop? The fact you've said you wanted to protect a player you thought was Cop rather than just a player you thought was Town is what interests me with that statement of yours."
All: To anyone who thinks I'm Scum - who do YOU think was the nightkill target on Night 1? Whoever it was, if it wasn't me, had best step forward and claim it. Of course, the liar then guarantees a 1:1 Scum/Town trade (barring more Town liars, because... yeah), and even in potential LYLO I doubt the Scum are willing to do that.
"Doesn't rule out SK, does it? Maybe scum DID try to hit you N1, but you're a bulletproof third-party. That's definitely a lot easier for me to believe than yet another Townie who can't be nightkilled.
Meanwhile, Kolmogorov and his promised content from here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105640.html#msg105640) are taking their sweet time. O'Malley's Wall Of Setup Analysis doesn't do anything to help, and about all he can offer is a clear of a player that no-one is really finding serious fault with anyway. And Hargreaves, hold still for one second - why exactly are you suddenly believing Daniels after he's claimed to have been cured of his suspicious aura?
On another note, what makes Nikolai better than Andrews in your opinion?" ((Andrews/Shale apparently has more genuine RL reasons to not have been posting. Alice, not so much, and what he's offered is the strange Cult Leader point against Hellsnake and a miller rolecop claim that could easily be scum rolecop going along with the miller bandwagon.))
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Anyone happen to know the game date?
Day 0 was October 23, 1928, so today (Day 3) is Friday, October 26, 1928. There'll be a new moon tonight. Also, tomorrow (Saturday) is the day of the Big Game between the Marbury Senior High Ospreys football team and the big regional threat, the Tilton Bears. Marbury's lost every year and has an 0-8 record; understandable for a small high school founded recently. But they only lost 24-14 last year and showed a lot of fight in the first half before getting worn down by Tilton's larger bench. The Ospreys have done great this year, so it promises to be a close game... at least if its star player Chad isn't too distracted by the tragic loss of his father.
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Votecount: There are still no votes.
Deadlines: It is now 48 hours into Day 3, and... well, it's not dead, but there doesn't seem to be much happening. As noted before, I am willing to set a deadline because it's not good for town if the game bogs down, and town has decent chances of making it to Day 4 even with a mislynch. As such, I am setting a soft deadline of 72 hours from now - that would be 5 RL days for Day 3, which should be plenty. I will probably change this into a hard deadline tomorrow depending on response and where the game seems to be.
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is potential LYLO.
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((Well, I still don't really WANT to think about Mafia right now but I've been putting it off long enough.))
/me takes a fairly deep swig of the moonshine, though not nearly as much as he'd been needin before. For once it's almost as if he doesn't need the stuff, at least not as much as before.
"We all may-a been wrong these last few days, I reckon it's like this: less of us here, the higher chance we'll get us some scum, eh? Gots to look on the brighter side o' things every once in a while. Not that that mean we don't got no business t' attend t'.
Goin' by the votes... day two, the first to hop on the Hellsnake's train were Pietro (conf. town), Kyle Handley, and Chad. Hellsnake was lookin' might suspicious as Day 2 went on and I'm not sure early votes tell us much. The only thing that makes me suspicious of Handley is his ragin' at Moses' droppin' o character, but as I've said before that's a huge WIFOM situation that doesn't really tell much. His recent post don't tell me much, neither.
Chad's kind o' suspicious, I think, in part because he may be pullin' the ol' To-Ho hijack ((usurp lead town role, lead scum to victory)), since I done been takin' his bein' town fer granted this whole time. On the other hand, there's a reason fer that--much of his play has been pretty good, ((thankfully not WOTy, but that's an aside)), and though he's been wrong, he's been wrong for pretty good reasons as far as I kin tell. ((From here on regarding Chad it's all flavor.)) Now, Chad... about yer pa... jus... jus how much do you know? I recall him sayin' once he wanted t' be cremated up on some stones up in themthar hills... an fer what it's worth, I reckon yer right. His wishes in death may be best left... disregarded.
And I reckon, fer yer sake, that you don't go persuin' his... memoirs... much deeper now.
/me gets kind of quiet for a minute, and takes a drink before moving on.
Anywho, the Pietro train started with Seamus, Greaves, and Peyton.
Finally done gettin' my bearins on Seamus. And... nothin' really seems that suspicious to me, outside the miller claim, which I am no longer taking into consideration. In fact, reading all of his posts, the most noteworthy thing I saw was his commentary on Andrews. As fer Andrews, I'm none too sure WHAT that statement implies, and reckon I'll wait to weigh in on th' lurker.
Peyton talks too much. The upswing t' this is that if he were gonna give a strong scumtell by now he prolly woulda done it. I ain't got much on him, and unless there's a convincin' taker to his challenge, I'm inclined to say he's town. The wordiness might all be smokescreenin' but I reckon not.
Greaves, I got nothin' on. He kept draggin' day 2 out with his unvotes, but also hammered at the last minute. Otherwise he's got so few posts I don't know what to make of it.
((Ugh. Too much mafia at once. I've still got to read up on Dale, Hargreaves, Nikolai... Hayles... ;_; I'll get to that later tonight I promise, but right now I need to think about something else.))
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Distracted? Heh, you mean "if I don't go mad and kill myself tomorrow" which in the absence of anyone else claiming to be slowkilled is sadly starting to look likely.
Setupwise.... okay, look, gonna lay this out. The mod has said multiple times that he wanted a game with a lot of roles that were mostly useless or traps. With that in mind? I don't think miller status means a darn thing, because I don't think that there IS a cop of useful sanity to be affected by it. I sure don't think Hellsnake would've been able to full revive anyone, just bring them back for talkin. (That's water under the bridge now though.) And I don't think all of the bulletproofs/protects floating around actually function as advertised (though it's pretty clear that at least one (probably Peyton's) does).
Flavorwise... I got nothin until or unless someone else has more to contribute. Andrews claiming amnesia scuttled any real progress in that direction. In the event I do kick it tonight, I'll say this much: The Order, includin my father, had a ceremony two weeks ago, and another one the night Pop died. Their goal was to call down some sort of mysterious power on specific people. I know who got the power from the first ceremony, and what it does, and it is at least linked to a real game effect. I don't know who got the power from the second ceremony, or even if anyone did (though my information strongly suggests that someone did), and if someone did, I don't got any guarantees it did the exact same thing as the first time. Still, I thought it worth pursuin, and still kinda do want to find the other person if possible.
Good old Mafiawise...
I read over everyone and I got nothin concrete. Kyle looked bad on days 1 and 2 but his posting today has been better and even explained where he's come from a bit. Hargreaves, Peyton and to an extent Seamus and Jack Daniels all look like positive contributors.
Kanbabrif or whatever the Russkie's name is has been mostly absent but then come in with good posting - yet somehow I still find myself wary of him, because the last game of checkers I played with the guy (Mai Hime, for reference) he did the same thing as scum and coasted to a win on having one good post the whole game and nothing else. Yet it seems like he's been more open this game so... I dunno.
Greaves and Andrews got mostly the same problems. Greaves especially I'm a little less keen on his posts, done a lotta speculating and a lotta egging on without actually bringing much useful up himself. Some o' that is a good thing, and lord knows I been speculatin a lot myself, but... he feels off somehow, too aggravated. I guess that's where my vote would go.
Dale and Hayles I don't even know what to think of, alternatin between scummy and townie and I dunno what.
##Vote: Nathan Greaves
I guess I'll step up then. Why are you so keen on the eggin on, specially in your posts today? You been doin an awful lot of yellin at people for doin things you don't like, but whar be the point, or your own case? Seems like you wanna just talk about the millers and lynch one, or lynch Peyton for arguin to lynch one without votin one (ignorin that he could only turn his vote to Hellsnake really)?
Ninja'd.
.... how on the green earth am *I* "lead townie" or anything close to it I haven't even posted for days because emergency work sessions killed my motivation and I don't know what's going on in this game what argh.
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Kyle Handley
Took a deeper look at Ronald Dale, due to the basic etherealness of his presence throughout the entire game... and honestly, his last five posts or so are incredibly contentless and halfassed. Between his latest efforts and the flip, it's almost enough to make the posts he made during the beginning of Day 2 look more like a concerted effort to keep him in the game, so to speak. He focuses on his case on Ethan, throws out comments on a few others, then hops onto the Pietro train without much conviction and proceeds to ride out the rest of the day by commenting on the posts of others while saying nothing of substance.
Today he's done nothing but speculate on role setup while presenting no cases, though he throws a few names out and promises to get to them eventually! Waiting on that.
Samuel: Where has the case against Nathan's voting been made before? I missed it.
The Mad Russian prodding me for night information then disappearing again amidst total lack of participation again is not a great sign.
Nathan hasn't really gotten much better. The quote he brought up about Peyton is... a good point, but it's still something that can easily be said while pursuing a different case. The rest of his case on Peyton is speculation based on roles. I can't really get behind it. I'm honestly for his lynch, but it'll take more than usual to get me to vote considering the situation we're in.
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Two things I need to reply to ere (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105782.html#msg105782):
Firstly, how in the bleedin 'ell is Andrews "still champion lurker" but "contributing positively" and Kolgomorov, who's done the same at best and been darn bad at worst, is Town-ish?
As fer yer case on me, I already said ere (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105654.html#msg105654) that I'd already given my reasons for votin Pietro at the time ere (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105294.html#msg105294). Nice o'you to ignore that post from the top o'the page.
Also, 'Argreaves, you been askin ere (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105681.html#msg105681) who I meant. If'n you been readin my post, it shoulda bin obvious, but I were talkin about ol Hadley over there.
Lookin at these two together, actually, did ya e'en read my post? I'm really not likin that misrep, thanks.
Despite those previous suspicions, mind, Hadley's response ere (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105720.html#msg105720) points out a comment I'd missed on me reread, and definitely puts things in a different light. Kolmogolmogolmorov, care to explain that'n? Yer suddenly lookin pretty darn terrible t'me.
Hargreaves has just shot up my list o'suspicions for some really weird logic and the misrep/lack of readin. Still behind Kolgolmolmorolgomov who's given us little t'work with, and what he 'as given is flawed. Add to that 'is promise of a new post followed by nothin and I think it's enough to say...
##Vote: Nikolai ((Kolgomorov? Something like that.))
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I guess I'll step up then. Why are you so keen on the eggin on, specially in your posts today? You been doin an awful lot of yellin at people for doin things you don't like, but whar be the point, or your own case? Seems like you wanna just talk about the millers and lynch one, or lynch Peyton for arguin to lynch one without votin one (ignorin that he could only turn his vote to Hellsnake really)?
"You caught me as I was about to drop a vote on Nikolai for still saying nothing this late in." ((Recent events in another game have taught me that LAL is definite truth, and he hasn't posted in 3 freaking days. Still, potential LYLO and all, and Hayles already has a vote down there.))
"But really, how am I meant to defend myself here? Suspecting people without voting them makes sense when it's lylo and one false move could get us all killed. And you even admit that you're doing exactly what I am except that something's a little off. What does that even mean?
As for Peyton, I'm having trouble believing that Hutchins' killers has two options for killing, slowkill and fastkill. Slowkill is apparently able to ignore bulletproof/bodyguard if Peyton's claim is true, and given there seem to be plenty of them out there I don't think they'd have any good reason to do it. Plus the they died in two different ways - Pietro gets shot, and Bike goes insane.
So honestly, I'm more willing to believe one of these kills - probably the slowkill, but I can't be sure - belongs to a third-party. And I find Peyton's actions easier to quantify as a third-party than anyone else's, with the possible exception of the Ruskie.
Still waiting for Hargreaves to explain why he likes Nikolai so much ahead of Andrews."
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So some shit regarding one of my courses came up very recently, followed by another game on that other site ending, thus I've been sort of busy. That being said, this game is now at the very top of my priority queue right now, so even IF other shit comes up, that won't impact my activity levels.
*cough* *cough* Anyway. I find it weird that the principal point against me is the Cult Leader comment against Hellsnake, considering that it was pretty much a spur-of-the-moment reaction (it really sounded exactly like that role), before I remembered that alignment-changing roles don't exist in this setup. Even then, this really isn't all that bad - Hellvole was terrible for several other reasons beyond just his role, and my case on him wasn't entirely based on role (though I will admit that it was his final roleclaim that pushed him ahead of Pietro for me).
Anyway: regarding the claimed millers, I'm pretty unconvinced that any of them are Scum simply for how the whole roleclaim nuttery came about. Our good friend Mr.Daniels here might have been a Scum attempting to force through a lynch of Hellsnake, but then Hellsnake would have flipped Miller and not Scum, and then Mr.Daniels would have looked terrible. It has all the feel of a fairly genuine counterclaim to it as well, for that matter - and really, I can't think of anything overtly objectionable from our good ever-drunk friend either, really.
Same for Seamus AranO'Malley - given two Miller claims, Scum fakeclaiming a third strikes me as bizarre. However, a third Miller claim lends credence to multiple Millers and thus would let you avoid being copscanned and then accused for it, which means that this is less a point in his favour than it is for Daniels. The fact that I can't actually remember anything that he's said all game vexes me as well, I will have to reread him thusly.
Now, what's interesting is that we have two people who claim to be targeted last night and both claim to feel Euphoric over it. One of them lost his Miller status (were you Miller + anything else, Mr.Daniels? You don't have to specify what "anything else" actually is, I'm just wondering if you have a dual/multiple role like what all the flips so far seem to have), and the other...Hutchins...hm. I'm suddenly really not liking Hutchins. Toss another one onto the reread pile.
Hayles however...that is my main point of suspicion for today. I particularly am amused by the selective attention surrounding my Cult Leader/no-alignment-changing-roles statements: first he goes after Jack for a misrep that was not a misrep, now he's going after me for the same thing, yet the whole comment is more-or-less irrelevant in the grand scheme of both mafia and this world, and yet he's using it as a major point in two cases.
His D2 play is somewhat irksome, principally due to using a lot of words and saying little - I find I always want to yell at him to get to the damn POINT already, yet quite often it seems that he never does. His opening post actually claims that he finds Andrews scummier than Hadley, yet votes Hadley instead for a reporting charge - yet the issue he has is that his posts contain too many words and are too long and too mixed-in with flavour (RP? What's that? Some form of MST3K Analogue for Let's Play's? (http://www.youtube.com/user/retsupurae) :P), which is missing the point of the reporting accusation completely. Reporting is a Scummy action if it is IIoA - Information Instead of Analysis. If there is Analysis, in good amounts, and it is sound, then large amounts of concurrent Information, while aggravating to read through, are not inherently Scummy. There's nothing objectionable about his Pietro vote, but that's solely because there quite literally is everything objectionable with Pietro's play. Really, probably the current top of my suspicion list, but I first want to do a proper reread through both Hutchins and O'Malley before voting (especially considering it technically is LYLO. Quasi-LYLO, yet LYLO nevertheless.)
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Did anyone else think the same thing about cops as Hutchins? It never crossed my mind, but if scum reached that conclusion earlier then it throws the miller claims (and especially Daniels' crazy roleloss claim) in a decidedly different light.
Handley: When I said that the case on Nathan's voting had been made, I was referring to your post (as an explanation of why I wasn't going into it myself). As far as I can see it's original to you.
Greaves: Care to restate what you were saying in "Slowkill is apparently able to ignore bulletproof/bodyguard if Peyton's claim is true, and given there seem to be plenty of them out there I don't think they'd have any good reason to do it. Plus the they died in two different ways"? I'm having trouble making sense of it.
I do think Kolmogorov has been contributing substantially more than Andrews, but since two people have flagged it up now, maybe my judgement is being clouded by outside knowledge - I have other reasons for clearing him, which I won't go into at this stage.
Hayles: Sure, you gave some reasons, that's why I said "half" rather than "all" - but they were nothing original, and your post doesn't read like they're as much the driving force behind your vote as they should be. You've got the reasons and the vote, but they don't quite connect up right; things like the "like everyone else" make me uncomfortable.
As for who you were talking about, no, it really wasn't obvious. All you say is "go back to my original case" - what original case? Your one previous mention of Hadley in that comment hardly qualifies as a "case"; the way I read it you could equally well have been talking about a previous post. And I don't like having to look through the whole thread just to figure out what you're talking about.
Hayles then gives us the "cult leader" case on Kolmogorov that really seems to be a mountain out of nothing, along with a frankly OMGUSy poke at yours truly, neither of which tends to endear him to me. Finger stays. (Really not comfortable with the amount of votes flying around - it is LYLO, after all, and weak-LYLO can be the most dangerous. But if this is the way we play here I'll put a vote on shortly).
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Handley: When I said that the case on Nathan's voting had been made, I was referring to your post (as an explanation of why I wasn't going into it myself). As far as I can see it's original to you.
Ah. Misinterpreted your meaning there then.
Still curious to hear whether Peyton is writing off Andrews as a suspect entirely in the following quote (and if so, why) or just putting Nicolai ahead of him in this specific argument (and if so, why, because lurking is lurking even if there's a valid reason).
Nicolai Kolmogorov was one of the people who voted for Ty Callahan during what Moses felt was the critical period on Day 1. Until the very end of Day 2 he was otherwise a non-presence; claimed he wasn't available to play, we'll see after the game I suppose. (Martin Andrews avoids my suspicion for this because his player wasn't on at ALL.) Possibly the slowkiller, could be Scum, 3rd Party or Town.
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Ronald Dale;
As they say, 有志者，事竟成, so is time to give that promised post.
This (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104531.html#msg104531) is the first instance of something that makes me frown. Before that, he complained someone was starting something before everyone'd had a chance to speak. A vote for Chad because he might be trying to start heavy discussion before everyone's had a chance to speak? As I said, I don't think idling around waiting for everyone is the smartest D1 strategy.
Misrepresentation (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104631.html#msg104631) of Chad here is also a little suspect. To clarify: Chad said Bike was saying crazy stuff but asked what was wrong with it, which I read at the time as meaning he doesn't really think that's worth voting Bike over. Nathan accuses Chad of getting a safety knob there for bajiggling onto Bike when it doesn't make sense to me.
Not to mention he first votes Chad for "trying to start serious discussion before everyone's posted" and then says he's sticking on Chad because "he's voting off gut when there's serious discussion to be had". :derp:
This post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105354.html#msg105354) is, as far as I'm concerned, fairly useless. Recap of what's happened to mostly pad a post that basically says, "I think Daniels is a real Miller, not sure on the other two. Pietro's claim may be real but it could not be! Hellsnake explain your role to me! Also I want to keep my vote on Hellsnake because his claim is ridiculous."... except a lot more words and chaff and repeating obvious things.
He then unvotes so there won't be a hammer (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105392.html#msg105392) before Day's end, which confuses me because how often does Town lynch well before deadline? Stinks like a move to scream, "Look I'm town because I want more discussion to happen!"
He revisits that here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105481.html#msg105481), again being mighty helpful by allowing discussion. His two posts inbetween "let's have discussion" and "I'll wait before ending discussion" don't contribute much to the discussion though. In fact it's downright weird he votes Hellsnake, then jumps off him again like a revolving door. Like he isn't sure whether he wants to lynch Hellsnake.
Aaand he spends the rest of the day hard on Peyton who is a bulletproof and seemly can't be taken out by Mafia by normal means. And the prevalent argument I seem to get from it is "I don't buy Peyton's roleclaim!"
... Yeah, no.
Still not done with my re-read but not getting happy vibes from Nathan at all. He's been pretty riskless. Careful inquiries, never venturing really into something by pressing someone hard with something new. Feels too careful to me.
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(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5987/yeoldenitore.png)
So I heard the humans are needin' me back, huh? I heard my name, and far be it from me t'disappoint. Good thing for you 'tweren't no trouble 'tall to get here quicklike, thanks to my brand-spankin'-new jet engine makin' travel easier.
...What? Whaddaya mean "what's a jet engine"? You don't got jet engines here? Y'all's crazy.
Well, anyway, I see you're dealin' with a cosmic horror dealie here, and, well, to be perfectly honest, I owes it t'my fellow kappa t'make sure I don't get harmed none, so there ain't a lot I can do for ya. B'sides, the last thing Gensokyo needs is another one o' these things raging about. Yukari got mighty pissed last time that happened. The least I can do for y'all is a vote count, though, I guess. Anyone got a pocket calculator so I can add up them votes?...Nothin'? Really? Well, what about a ballpoint pen so I can do it by hand?...Oh, come on, you folks can't be serious. How can you not know what this stuff is? No wonder humans are makin' up stories about how we reach right up into their backsides for fun, y'don't know nearly enough t'know better.
Fine, I'll take care of this on m'fingers.
Eiki Almighty, no pocket calculators...next they're'll be tellin' me they don't got no radio telescopes. Bleedin' silly humans...
This investigation scene and this votecount have been hereby high-jacked by the To-Ho Gang, and we're laughin' out loud 'bout it!
Nathan "Shameimaru" Greaves (1): Chad "Kamishirasawa" Hutchins
Reisen Udongein Kolmogorov (1): Ethan "Minoriko" Hayles
No vote: Everyone else
With 11 beautiful lasses in elegant dresses still in play, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO.
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With 11 beautiful lasses in elegant dresses still in play, it takes 6 to lynch.
"Wait a minute, since when was I wearing a dre-oh, jeez, thank Christ I'm the only journalist around here or I'd be ruined."
Greaves: Care to restate what you were saying in "Slowkill is apparently able to ignore bulletproof/bodyguard if Peyton's claim is true, and given there seem to be plenty of them out there I don't think they'd have any good reason to do it. Plus the they died in two different ways"? I'm having trouble making sense of it.
((Basically, given that there are apparently half a million bulletproofs out there and that the slowkill is BP/Doc-immune, there's no reason for scum to use the fastkill and waste a night hitting a BP. And besides, if Hadley is telling the truth then they used both at once N1, and may well have done the same N2 depending on what's happening with Chad/Daniels.
And besides that, a scumteam who can't kill nearly half of Town, and whose only payoff is a flock of Miller roles that may well be worthless given there's no sane cop to scan them, is a really hard prospect to believe. So either there are fewer bulletproofs than we think, in which case Hadley is probably lying and two BPs was all we had, or the scum kill is actually the BP-immune slowkill, in which case Hadley is potentially an SK who faked being attacked N1 after he saw there was no scum kill to sell himself. Either way, I'm struggling to believe he's Town.))
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So hey Greaves more to the point who if anyone do you think is scummy for reasons unrelated to multiple miller/BP/etc role shenanigans?
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((*Zenny puts his face in his hands and regrets saying ANYTHING EVER.*))
/me likewise takes a good, long drink. Goddarn it if he ain't hallucinatin'...
Now, then... Chad, well, kin ye think of anyone else who'd claim the title? Yer about the only sumbitch I'm pretty sure is town, deceased aside. Maybe lead town role was one-a them... mis... mis-gnomes, but my point is the same. Just got to remember that just 'cuz I think yer town don't mean y'are.
I been mullin' it over some and I'm startin' t' realize that part o' the reason I can't get a read on folks is mah confidence's shot. Been wrong, damn wrong, twice nah, thrice if yer countin' Pietro, an... well, makes a feller unsure o' hisself. But now ain't the time fer it. So, s'cuse me while I drink up to steel mah nerves a bit.
Now, as I were sayin... ain't really got a read on Greaves. But what others have been sayin' do make a bit o' sense t'me. Lookin' back at it, Greaves ain't really done much t'il t'day, an' when he done took his vote out to prolong discussion it were at a point where Andrews ain't contributed yet, and assumin' town Greaves, he couldda reckoned that Andrews' vote couldda gone either way, so I guess that ain't too bad o' a play. At the same time, he ain't really done much except... speculate on roles and make arguments from flavor (to a degree anyway). I'm not too sure he's scummy, but I don't like how most of his arguments don't seem to stem from anyone's actual play.
An' Greaves, as per yer argument that Peyton's a liar about his bulletproof status... well, he done put forth that challenge about who else could have been the target night 1, ain't he? An' nobody's done put forth a claim to it. I suppose that the night one target COULD have been Hellsnake, but then I imagine Hellsnake would have said somethin' about it. Bad as he was playin', and don't get me wrong, he was, what he said largely seemed t' be the truth in hind. He would'a mentioned somethin' about it. I suspect his role's more o' a trap than he's aware, but I'm inclined to believe the bulletproof claim given how bloody role madness this game's been. An' since nobody's done claimed to be N1's target, I don't think he's scum. Don't rule out third party, though.
((Say... he protected Bike N1, didn't he. Say, Peyton, who DID you protect last night? I have some suspicions... though they're not quite about alignment as of yet.))
((Annnnd... real life is pulling me away once again. I know I said I'd post more last night and didn't but I promise I will this time? I actually want to get a good look at Ethan Hayles and Dale, since both have been consistently slipping under my radar this game.))
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((Oh, one more thing I meant to address but forgot, and will since I have more time than I thought:
No, whoever it was that asked, I don't have any other powers that I'm refusing to claim. I'm just a vanilla ex-miller. Although, if you count getting the thread hijacked, I guess that's LIKE a power.
Though, really, just to FIT IN I feel like I should be claiming to be a bulletproof doctor busser who can revive but only on nights where the people I target don't have any actions taken against them, also I can't be lynched unless there's two consecutive lynchings on me and my votes count for double. Alas, it was not meant to be.))
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I see that we have visitors.
Daniels, throw that book of demon names out and stop spoutin' 'em off, it just brings trouble.
Hayles, grab that shotgun you keep for pests & varmints.
Peyton, I don't know if you've got a protective circle ritual thingy or what, but ya might want to research that to prevent further incursions.
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In administrative news. Votecount is the same as above, still potential LYLO. And as noted yesterday, I am now changing the soft deadline into a hard one. Day 3 will end in 48 hours at 9:00 EDT, May 1. Given the gravity of the situation if discussion is very active at the time I may be willing to push this back somewhat, but do not rely on this (and "somewhat" means "perhaps half an hour"). If there is no hammer by deadline, the majority lynch candidate will die. As a reminder to Town, a close tie between 3 candidates at 3 votes makes it very easy for scum to surreptitiously only move a vote or two to get a mislynch, so you should want to hammer anyway.
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So hey Greaves more to the point who if anyone do you think is scummy for reasons unrelated to multiple miller/BP/etc role shenanigans?
((Nikolai for taking 3 days to show up, then doing the following in his big post:
- Declaring every other miller to look townie based on their claims not making sense as scum. Seriously, if scum saw two miller claims (since I'm pretty sure Daniels is being genuine with his claim at least), that's easily enough to convince them the claim is enough to hide behind, moreso if there are three. This is then immediately irrelevant given that he claims non-role reasons to suspect O'Malley - in which case why'd he bother saying that the Miller claims looked townie considering that the only other claimed miller (besides Daniels, who no-one really has a problem with) was him?
- Reading into the setup over the Chad/Daniels euphoria, in blatant IIoA.
Andrews, after promising to write something up in a few hours at the start of the day (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105655.html#msg105655), has made a similar disappearance. Seriously, the amount of lurking going on between these two is pretty horrible, especially given that their RL difficulties conveniently stopped just in time for them BOTH to post at the end of D2. Better still, late enough in the day that Andrews had a viable excuse for not placing a vote anywhere!
If we're to ignore the players who've literally been lurking all game, there's O'Malley for his aforemented Post of Nothing, his D2 'Hayles is scummy but Dale is scummy for attacking him so hard' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105152.html#msg105152) post (I don't follow. The vote was early enough in the day that raising the case would've been a real threat to Scum!Hayles, so why would Scum!Dale take that risk when there were at least two other wagons he could easily have lended support to?) and his going along with Handley's case on me (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105639.html#msg105639) while adding (yet again) nothing of value beyond 'he hammered Hellsnake, but given that Hellsnake was horrible that means nothing!'))
"Oh, and by the way - that's a nice cap you got there, kid. Mind if I take you to the side for a minute for an interview 'bout these 'jetenjin' things o' yours? Not got much in currency, but I can sure as hell pay you in smiles."
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Now, then... Chad, well, kin ye think of anyone else who'd claim the title?
Well I would've said Peyton on account o'sheer volumes of text and bein in the thick of things. Feels like I ain't been talkin too much this game, pretty sad if my game's still the best we've got, but so here we are.
Anyway...
I dunno if "too many BPs/protects" is any better than "too many millers" now. Seems like it could be that the slowkill is the main scum kill and the fast kills are vig or third party? Baseless speculation, maybe not, but I ain't thinkin goin down those lines is helpful no more after seein last night.
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Faith and begora, mayhaps this is some kind of Helltown if monstrosities like that can be so easily summoned.
In more serious news, I'm with Chad. The thought I've given towards the setup has gone nowhere. Maybe with the extra bits that Bike could have given us we'd be able to piece it together. But as is, seems pretty pointless to look down.
So, looks like we've got ourselves a deadline. Fair enough. I've been looking through folks, and I do have a short list that I'm currently firming up.
Hayles - Still first in my mind for what I've said before. I definately think there's something to find between him and Ronald, and he's looking the worse of the two.
Daniels - His Day 1 was weaker than I remembered it. Definately need to look at his 2/3, but I'm not sure if I give him so much credit for the Miller gamble as others do. Especially since his position on all the major stuff that went down Day 1 was "Seems neutral" except of Tyrone, which he said he was having some serious doubts over right before the day ended.
Andrew - As odd as it sounds, I have no real worries about Nikolai. But this guy? Next to nothing from him, and when he does come, his material isn't that strong.
Handley - Not to be confused with the Actor. Also someone who I can't recall a thing for, at least, not past Day 1, and Day 1 was a risky, but otherwise fine way to get through the day without saying a thing, which he... mostly did.
Not quite seeing the case on Greaves, but I'll be keeping an eye out for anything on him regardless.
And since we need people to speak up now, guess I'll vote.
##Vote: Ethan Hayles
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(http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~md401/Ryerin.png)
Ack, my old nemesis. You won't win this time.
Just to note that I won't be around this evening, though given the rate at which things have (not) been happening I needn't have bothered. Have some thoughts on the Greaves/Hadley killstyles/BPs whatever, but I can't go through them rigorously now; will hopefully have formed them into something coherent by tomorrow morning (i.e. about 20 hours from now), which is when you're next likely to hear from me.
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Le's face it, my day 1 play was shit, and I'm kinda surprised more people didn't harp on me for it Day 2 to be honest. The moment somebody brought up the idea, "Well if Tyrone was scum why wouldn't his teammates just tell him about the jokevote phase," I knew I fucked up--I'd been lynchin ol' Ty for his attack on me and some poor play, not fer scumtells. By that time I'd built up the train so much, so much steel and steam behind it and we were so close to hammer, it was too late to stop it. I became the father of death and it's been the main factor in my bein' afraid to make a argument t'day.
But as I done said, now ain't the time for that. Now's the time t' hunt scum.
Greaves I've said my peace on. ((Kind of dropping character from here on because I want to get this written up before class/work.))
Now, Hayles. Comes in on the Ty lynch on day one to make it L-1, after keeping his vote on Dale for a bit. Seems he and Dale railed back and forth at each other in Day 1/early Day 2, and he has since entirely dropped his case on Dale. Don't like that at all. He also focuses his attention on Peyton some Day 2, and it's before Peyton claims Bulletproof, and largely I agree with his analysis (though in fairness I brought up Peyton's list being useless first so I don't know how much I should read into it). He's not coming off to well, no, but he's also no worse off than Greaves. Both are mostly guilty of lurking and not sayin' much, though Hayles completely dropping his case on Dale makes him slightly more suspicious? It's interestin' to me that both o' em are going after Peyton. How Peyton answers my question may well color my views on both these fellers.
Re: Chad: And, as fer Peyton being lead townie? He's posted a lot of content, sure, but I ain't feelin' too good about him yet.
Re: Hargreaves: Considering neither o' ya'll not lookin' as suspicious as Greaves or Hayles right now, I'm not going to ask what your guarantee on Andrews is. Yet. My main beef with Andrews is a LAL beef, and I suspect that if he don't cut that shit out soon I'm gonna focus more on 'im. And if/when I do, I'm gonna press you harder on this subject.
Back t' reads... Kolmorogorobovorobog: He advocates not lynching Hellsnake because of his power, but the only tell I can get from that is WIFOM as shit. Also (correctly) deducts that Pietro's actions are similar to a cop's on day 2.
Not many posts, but the posts are pretty good. Has definitely linked himself to Kyle beyond the point of return with his latest claim of targetting Kyle--if Nikolai's scum, then Kyle's scum too (though if Nikolai is town Kyle isn't necessarily town). But neither of those two are reading as scummy to me. The most scummy thing about Nikolai at this point is that I've frequently seen him in IRC but he's still lurking as much as he does. Granted, considering I make it a point to have real life take precedence over Mafia (and considering the walls of text I don't always WANT to be mafiaing even if I'm online >_>), it'd be hypocritical to make this too much of this. Of the two lurkers, meta aside Nikolai comes off much better than Andrews, but neither of them are as suspicious as Hayles or Greaves.
I... think I'm going to vote Hayles, but since that'd put him at L-3, and if Hayles IS town scum can sneak in for a swift win, I'm not going to do that quiiiite yet. I need to read up on Dale a bit, since he seems like a likely third candidate for lynchin', but more importantly I need to go to class/work. I shouldn't have much more to say at this time anyhow (barring Peyton really dropping the ball in his next posts).
Given how things progress by the time I get back, I may put a vote down. For right now, though, #FoS: Ethan Hayles.
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Administrative note: It has now been over 72 hours since Martin Andrews / Shale's last post. Combined with not being around much the first 2 days, Martin Andrews is now on inactivity modkill watch, again. If Shale does not post again by the end of Day 3, he will be modkilled at end of day with flip.
And now... a votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [1]: Seamus (Excal)
No votes: Everyone else
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO. Day 3 will end in 32 hours.
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Just popping in to apologize for my absence. This week has been ridiculous. :(
I'll be able to participate over the weekend and maybe late tonight.
Aaaand looking at the votecount I see Day 3 is going to end in the middle of the weekend.
Crap.
Well, I'll be here Saturday.
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Referrin' to my note about Nikolai and Kyle being tied together--I was wrong on that. I remembered that Nik said that he targetted Kyle, but forgot that Kyle had responded and said that he wasn't notified about anythin' like a night action. I figgered that if Nikolai was scum he'd have t' be lyin' about who he targetted, and then have someone else corroborate the story. There was no corroboration, so just toss that bit out. That's what I get for tryin' to think at the wee hours o' the mornin'.
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Oh hey look I was also wrong about where Hayles was at.
##Vote: Ethan Hayles. No harm in this yet, I hope.
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Fuck. I'm not sure how much I'll be around today; I just finished work for the day (and hopefully for the week; unlike last week I won't have to put in a nine-hour day on Saturday), but I'm heading our for dinner and I'll be out of town (although hopefully not out of computer access) almost all of tomorrow. So, speedposting before I leave.
What I said before on Kyle before stands, but his contributions in Day 3 have been mostly solid; the only one I can find a hole to poke in is his most recent post, which is one very abbreviated case on Ethan's play over the entire game, followed by a list of "hey you, say something" lines. Reading townier than he was before, but there's only so much a day of good play can do to erase two days of bad.
Nathan: Gotta agree with the crowd here; the only substantive analysis he's done is on roles. Getting bogged down in flavor and roles is a problem the whole game has had, to one degree or another, but he's been the worst. I can't knock him for posting frequency or shallowness of content, just the focus of that content but it's something.
..and now I'm getting yelled at to get my ass out the door. More later tonight or early tomorrow morning (gotta be on the road by eightish), probably on Hayles from the way things are going.
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What I said before on Kyle before stands, but his contributions in Day 3 have been mostly solid; the only one I can find a hole to poke in is his most recent post, which is one very abbreviated case on Ethan's play over the entire game, followed by a list of "hey you, say something" lines. Reading townier than he was before, but there's only so much a day of good play can do to erase two days of bad.
Nathan: Gotta agree with the crowd here; the only substantive analysis he's done is on roles. Getting bogged down in flavor and roles is a problem the whole game has had, to one degree or another, but he's been the worst. I can't knock him for posting frequency or shallowness of content, just the focus of that content but it's something.
..and now I'm getting yelled at to get my ass out the door. More later tonight or early tomorrow morning (gotta be on the road by eightish), probably on Hayles from the way things are going.
Except I didn't bring a case on Ethan, save for bringing him up in relation to Ronald's case on him during Day 2.
Also, it's odd that you would say that the only substantive analysis he's done is on roles, but say that you can't knock him for shallowness of content... when pretty much the former implies that anything not role-related was shallow. It's a serious flip-flop there, in all honesty. And even worse when you're considering his role-related argument stuff was misdirected at best and unhelpful at worst... You're basically saying everything he has isn't that great but you're couching it in language that makes you appear skeptical of the case despite that.
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((asdfgfd. Just woken up after 2 hours sleep, it is now the middle of the night. My motivation and health have been shot to hell, and that's why I'm only posting this now, despite having been around for most of the day. RP (role-play >_>) section was written earlier, rest is OoC.))
As far as my 'case on Dale' went, 'twas an early Day 1 vote, followed by not movin it because he hadn't reappeared (so, LaL) and then movin it to the most suspicious player. Yeah, Ty were town, but that don't mean he weren't suspicious. Day 2 were against Peyton, who he were defendin, which is where I started the day.
((Can't really say much for people attacking me with regards to the Cult Leader point against Nikolai. I saw it (and still see it!) as role speculation, which is a fruitless endeavour at best and, more likely, a distraction from actually scum-hunting.
Hargreaves, how was that an OMGUS poke, exactly? It was a response to your 'case', which consisted mostly of pointing you to my previous post. I'm somewhat thrown now by how quickly you jumped to "OMGUS!" because I pointed out a flaw in your post.
And I did mean a previous post, but that wasn't why it was obvious. I specifically mentioned Greaves' second point along with the case against Nikolai, which were both directly referring to Peyton.
...anyways. Nikolai's latest post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105833.html#msg105833) does nothing to remove those suspicions. Past the first paragraph, we have: excuse of posting on instinct (which does nothing to remove my suspicions as it's just as easily a cover for a mistake as it is the truth), followed by some WIFOM on Jack. The next paragraph's mostly fine, and then he moves on to say "I'll look over Hutchins again" - when can we be expecting this one?
After this, it's his 'case' on me. This starts by saying I went after Jack on a misrep (truth: I said Jack seemed suspicious based on gut, but I chose to ignore this and pushed the case on Peyton instead.) He then claims I've used that argument as a major point twice - except this first case on Jack doesn't actually exist and I have no idea where I supposedly used this against him. He also says that it's a small point in the grand scheme of things which just reads to me as "It was a scummy mistake, but it's not important." He claims I missed the point of the reporting charge, when I said that Hadley's posts (early on) were all information and flavour, so I didn't miss the point at all, according to him. But I did. If that makes sense.
Vote definitely stays until we get something useful out of Nikolai - I feel like every post of his so far has been either a distraction from scum-hunting or reiterating previous points.
As far as other new content goes... the only thing that really stands out is Martin's post. One, the thing that Sopkyle pointed out. Two, he looks at two people in his short time here - one is "He's improved since I last looked, but that doesn't change things" and the other is, as stated, "agree[ing] with the crowd here." I know real-life issues have been claimed, but there's only so long I can excuse the play based on that.))
Now what in tarnation is a Me-no-ree-ko? That be one o'them beins from yer world?
((And sorry (mostly to Zenny) for the WoT. -.- Hate writing them, but I've spent long enough writing this and my head's hurting, so not cutting it down.))
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Also, it's odd that you would say that the only substantive analysis he's done is on roles, but say that you can't knock him for shallowness of content... when pretty much the former implies that anything not role-related was shallow. It's a serious flip-flop there, in all honesty. And even worse when you're considering his role-related argument stuff was misdirected at best and unhelpful at worst... You're basically saying everything he has isn't that great but you're couching it in language that makes you appear skeptical of the case despite that.
The problem is breadth, not depth. Role analysis analysis isn't worthless, it's not bad play to focus on it to the exclusion of all else. Just like it would be bad play to ignore role information completely.
(Back as of about five minutes ago, reading more)
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it's JUST bad play. Argh. Kept changing that sentence and stupid shit like that is what results.
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Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [1]: Ethan Hayles
Ethan Hayles [2]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels
No votes: Everyone else
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO. Day 3 will end in 20 hours.
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Okay, got to go to sleep soon or I'll be driving a few hundred miles without anything approaching rest, which would be bad. Part of the problem I've been having, and I realize lurking's lurking but I feel the need to justify myself, is that whenever I get a minute to read the topic it's always got a hard deadline attached, and having to produce something from the chaos that is a mafia topic in half an hour or else suffer real-life consequences does the opposite of ordering my mind. I get into information-overload and can't come up with anything coherent that isn't pure regurgitation. Doesn't help that I haven't played in a year. Ugh.
Anyway. The only people who've said things that really jump out at me now as scummy are Bill, Pietro (yeah, that's useful) and Kyle, so Kyle is who I will be focusing on. Possibly for above-mentioned reasons of information overload, but still, that's what I'm getting.
Day 1: He starts by going after Moses on flavor/PM-sorta-quoting grounds. That goes nowhere, and he ends up joining the pile on Tyrone....sorta.
"I suppose it's time for me to weigh in on the big monopoly of the day, Tyrone Callahan. He did draw my attention when he tried to piggyback onto my first sale of the day, when he clearly didn't in any solid sense upon looking at the official court records. I would still say that what happened between Moses and I was a matter of trust, in which I did not trust the man. Tyrone is attributing Moses' behavior during the day in a much more sinister light than that even, and it doesn't quite pass inspection, maybe even voids the warranty. It's stubborn and argumentative through and through. While Chad might just be right in that it may not help town either way, there isn't much in the way that does that has support at this point. I've never been one to follow trends arbitrarily, but if business is to remain productive and profitable one must see how the winds are blowing though." (OOC: The glib nature of the last sentence is more flavor than anything)
NINJA'D! Changing how this ends since someone else put him at L-1.
"So if you need an outsider's perspective, I suppose I would be fine weighing in on it if the town needs to decide."
His statement on the case is short on specifics, doesn't give any solid reason for why Kyle's own case on Moses was valid ("I did not trust the man") but Tyrone's isn't, but was (in theory) prepared to back that up with a vote that would have sent Callahan to L-1. Also bear in mind that he abandoned the case against Bike not because he thought better of it, but because it wasn't catching on.
After a bit, Kyle straightens out his suspenders and tips his hat. "Well, I suppose any salesman worth his salt knows when to give up on a sale."
##Unvote: Moses Bike
"Hopefully if more evidence comes to light I will be able to unload the merchandise, but there's no profit to be made hawking a product no one wants.
Soooo....you still wanted Bike lynched (if there's another way to read that comment, I don't see it), but were willing to put Callahan's neck in the noose instead, because he wanted Bike lynched more. I hope I'm not the only one that sounds off to.
Day 2. I'm fine with his switch to Hellsnake. Like I said before, Hellsnake had some of the scummiest play we've seen in this game. He doesn't have the world's strongest case when he casts the vote at the start of the day, but you don't need a strong case to prod somebody at day's opening. Hellsnake wilting under pressure was his own fault.
This, however, was not Hellsnake's fault:
In retrospect, the vote-tagging at the end probably wasn't the best way to go about that, but I'll stick by it. And just because I didn't bring him up doesn't mean I'm not still watching Bike. I'm waiting very intently to see how this claim of his works out, and honestly the only thing that will clear him as far as that is his death, as far as I'm concerned. Just dropping him from consideration due to this isn't the way to go, as it ends up the same if he is an extra death down the line or he is lynched today even, unless he's scum. So actually that might be the economic thing to do! Just throwing that out there.
And to Nathan, I know it's an uncomfortable suggestion, but look at it. We still lose him tomorrow if he's telling the truth, and if he's lying, we lynch a scum. Lynching a scum is NEVER gaining nothing. If you came out against this from the position that his lynch tells us nothing, it'd make a little more sense, but if he ends up being scum it is not. I never said that we should forget looking at everyone else either.
Yes, I know I pointed it out before, but it is really, really, really bad. The case against Bike was based in flavor and metagame and not much else and it was a Day 1 kerfluffle, and then Kyle comes out and openly suggests lynching him based on new flavor. There's no new argument here for why he's scummy, just some very bad logic - the idea that losing a townie to nightkill is as bad as losing one to mislynch, so why not risk the mislynch - that's supposed to get us to lower our standards enough to buy into the Day 1 case.
Says nothing about the Pietro case, but he doesn't have a single post anywhere between his last post on Day 2 (before Pietro was a going thing) and his first on Day 3. I think if I got up in arms about that, I'd be smote by lightning where I stand.
Day 3:
Decent, if brief, contributions on some new people, mainly Nathan, Ronald and to a lesser extent myself. Well, of course it's new people, since everybody he's expressed suspicion of to this point is dead, so town or scum, he's got to start from scratch. On its own it's a null-to-townie sort of read, but it's also the effect of two days of tunnel vision. That's not great.
##Vote Kyle Handley
This might be the last time I get online before deadline hits, so if I feel someone's scummy enough to vote on, I'd better do it now.
Aside from the aforementioned issues with Nathan, I'm finding Chad hard to read because of the (now well-publicized) flavor overdose. Also, Nathan, while I'm looking at Kyle-related contributions, care to explain this?
"As for Handley:
Just dropping him from consideration due to this isn't the way to go, as it ends up the same if he is an extra death down the line or he is lynched today even, unless he's scum. So actually that might be the economic thing to do! Just throwing that out there.
...Wait, what? You want to lynch the guy who's already claimed that some deep dark secret is gonna eat him up tomorrow? What do we have to gain from lynching him a day early, rather than spending today looking for other suspicious folk?"
((If we lynch Town!Bike, then obviously we've wasted a day and given scum an extra head. If we lynch Scum!Bike, then we've gained NOTHING compared to if we'd just waited out the day, noticed he was still alive, and lynched him D3. So there's no reason to risk pressing for his lynch (we lose out if we're right, and gain nothing if we're wrong) and the fact you're even suggesting this makes me feel uncomfortable.
Still think Pietro's passive suggestions are a little scummier than Kyle's in-your-face wrongness, though. Andrews and Nikolai (MUCH easier to remember than Kolmogorov) still need to exist.))
Yesterday, Pietro was just "a little scummier" than Kyle. Today, Kyle isn't even on your list of suspicious persons. In fact, you haven't even mentioned his name since arguing the Bike point on Day 2. Why?
And now, to sleep.
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Jack: My "guarantee" is on Kolgomorov, not Andrews; if you want to make a case on Andrews, be my guest.
I don't necessarily see the "correctness" in Kolgomorov deducing that Pietro was playing like a cop, given that he was and knew he was a paranoid, i.e. non, cop.
Also, Kolgomorov has somewhat tied himself to Handley, in that if Handley flips an obviously scum role, Kolgomorov's looking mighty shaky for not mentioning it. (though if Handley's scum with a neutral role, obviously we learn nothing).
Hayles: I jump from nowhere to an implied second on your scumlist as soon as I mention you. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it felt OMGUSy to me. We can go back and forth on whether your post was or wasn't obvious, but I couldn't easily see who you were talking about and that certainly wasn't because I didn't bother reading it.
Man. Rereading Greaves he seems to be mixing genuine insight and bad logic in equal measure. The point about cheerleading the miller claims seems valid; the "why didn't you protect Pietro" argument is stupid (and obviously if he has a hint that someone is a cop he's not going to broadcast it).
So it is with the setup meta. He makes a good point: if Peyton is telling the truth, then there are three bulletproofs, therefore scum almost certainly has some way of killing bulletproofs. But then the conclusion he reaches in his original post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105828.html#msg105828) is "I'm more willing to believe one of these kills - probably the slowkill, but I can't be sure - belongs to a third-party". Huh?
In his clarification-type post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105863.html#msg105863) he comes to a more natural conclusion, and one I tend to agree with: "either there are fewer bulletproofs than we think, in which case Hadley is probably lying and two BPs was all we had, or the scum kill is actually the BP-immune slowkill". The only other possibility I can see is that the "normal" kill of Pietro was a scum one-off, in which case Hadley's claim to have been attacked seems suicidal.
But Greaves then jumps to "in which case Hadley is potentially an SK who faked being attacked N1 after he saw there was no scum kill to sell himself". Which, sure, could be the case (though don't SKs normally have to kill every night?), but he could equally well be, y'know, an actual bodyguard, who was attacked by SK!anyoneelse (or heck, even a vigilante). So I'm really not seeing "Either way, I'm struggling to believe he's Town"; it feels like Greaves is twisting the logic here to support his case on Hadley. Sure, I'll accept that his actions are consistent with his being scum or SK - I don't think any of us have been cleared on roles yet - but the case that he's not town needs to be made based on his posting, and all I see being offered here is the cheerleader point, which isn't enough.
What bothers me most, though, is the shift in the conclusion between the two posts. The point of logic is that you always reach the single correct conclusion, so what changed that had you thinking the slowkill was 3P in the first post but scum in the second?
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Yesterday, Pietro was just "a little scummier" than Kyle. Today, Kyle isn't even on your list of suspicious persons. In fact, you haven't even mentioned his name since arguing the Bike point on Day 2. Why?
"'Cause if I sit here and list every guy who's done something suspicious, I'd be accusing half of Marbury.
After last night Hadley looked pretty horrible given that there were already 2 bulletproofs, and the guy he supposedly protected before threw himself into a lake. Nikolai and Andrews started lurking yet again, and O'Malley went through his whole process of talking a lot but not saying much. Attacking all these people and throwing in points on Kyle as well is just overdoing it."
What bothers me most, though, is the shift in the conclusion between the two posts. The point of logic is that you always reach the single correct conclusion, so what changed that had you thinking the slowkill was 3P in the first post but scum in the second?
((When I realised that scum with a normal NK in a setup that supposedly has 3 bulletproofs and a bodyguard are pretty much screwed.))
"In terms of Hadley, I'll admit that I got sorta overambitious when it came to looking for a serial killer on the loose. Thing is, I'm pretty sure there really is someone else out there interfering, not some extra option scum has.
This is gonna sound kinda awkward, but I've been having these weird dreams for the last month. I never see who's in them - the guy's face is always blackened out, but it's always some sorta grisly murder. Scares the crap outta me, and the last dream had the guy just taking a walk into Marbury, all casual-like. Whether he was hiding here or returning to base, I've got no idea, but I hauled my ass down here the first chance I got."
((tl;dr - My Role PM seems to heavily suggest that there's an SK in this setup. Hadley fits the signs better than anyone else I can see.))
"I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the fact that Nikolai's made one post all day, and with deadline coming up there's a good chance his vote is gonna be nowhere. At least Andrews dropped a vote on Handley, but all the Ruskie's done is say 'Hayles is bad, but I'm going to disappear for two whole days again to reread'. There are some cases that you just can't get a hold of when you want to, so I'm gonna leave Hadley for now and ##Vote: Nikolai Kolmogorov."
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Really? It's not like you were exactly wall-of-texting in that post. A line or two mentioning that you're still suspicious of him/not suspicious of him anymore wouldn't have exploded the board. Plus, isn't sitting there and listing everybody who did something suspicious is exactly what we're supposed to do?
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((Isn't that the logical assumption? If he hasn't done anything to lessen my suspicion in particular, surely it'd be assumed that I still thought Kyle was iffy but that other bigger cases had arisen in the meanwhile. He hasn't done much to criticise today, at least.))
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You're the only one who knows what you're thinking; the rest of us have to read your posts. And yeah, we could assume that, but flipping from one case to another without regard for consistency of thought is one of the classic scum behaviors, and ruling it out based on nothing more than benefit of the doubt seems like a bad idea to me.
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Sorry for the absense, should be back responding to stuff and reading again in about 8 hours. Assuming I'm not too distracted by Djinn and IAQ stuff before he wanders off for Golden Week.
Also, nice to see you participating, Martin.
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Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [2]: Ethan Hayles, Nathan Greaves
Ethan Hayles [2]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels
Kyle Handley [1]: Martin Andrews
No votes: Everyone else
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO. Day 3 will end in 7 hours.
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Kay, Seamus? Comin' back in 8 hours ain't gonna do a lick o' good when the deadline's in 7.
Jack: My "guarantee" is on Kolgomorov, not Andrews; if you want to make a case on Andrews, be my guest.
I don't necessarily see the "correctness" in Kolgomorov deducing that Pietro was playing like a cop, given that he was and knew he was a paranoid, i.e. non, cop.
Also, Kolgomorov has somewhat tied himself to Handley, in that if Handley flips an obviously scum role, Kolgomorov's looking mighty shaky for not mentioning it. (though if Handley's scum with a neutral role, obviously we learn nothing).
Ah, I misunderstood. Gotcha. Though now that Andrews is postin' again I still don't have much t' go on. His posts strike me as quite good content-wise, but that's a gut reaction and my gut's been wrong before.
And it's as yeh say, about the ruskie and the salesman. I just had that thar symbiosis backward.
Hm. I'm really not likin' Greaves' last few posts, t' be right honest. Even if he felt he were gettin' too wall-o-texty, completely omitting Handley from his analysis seems a little off, and the "it should be obvious what my thoughts on Handley are!" just strikes me as scummy. Additionally, the point he's bringing up against Peyton again isn't based off of anything in his posts, but just off of role speculation. Bad, bad, bad. I'm very tempted to shuffle my vote off Hayles to Greaves at this point, but we still have a little bit of time so I'll hold off.
Sigh. 6 more hours til deadline and I get the feeling a lot of people ain't gonna be around. This sucks. I'll try to read more into things but unless there's more content I don't think I'll reach any new conclusions.
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Nathan starts off the day indulging in a little WIFOM regarding me in this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105651.html#msg105651). Then in his next post, he asks why I wasn't bodyguarding Pietro, which - seriously, read any of my Day 2 posts. I'm pretty sure every single one mentions how Scummy I found Pietro. Already addressed this.
What I find particularly bad about this, though, is his picking at my actual choice of bodyguard target last night in this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105784.html#msg105784). If I were to explaim my reasoning, much less state the name? It would expose who I thought was a cop, including to scum.
Overall, I have a huge problem with Nathan's role speculation throughout the day. I'd like to hope that problem isn't just OMGUS. We are in a game that was billed as Role Madness. We already had a bulletproof town reviver lynched in part because people couldn't believe he could have such a strong role (Kolmogorov's landing on Hellsnake at the end was explicitly because of this).
We don't know what Scum have. It may include a doublekill, possibly available only once but possibly more than once, and CERTAINLY bypassing my protection at the least. I'll note that the two claimed bulletproofs we have flavor for, Hellsnake and I, both mention what ammounts to immunity to normal weapons - his post here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105482.html#msg105482), and my discussion with Moses here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105281.html#msg105281). Not looking so "impossible" for Scum then, is it?
By the way, as I go back to look at Day 2 stuff, I notice another thing about my bulletproof claim. I made it in the first place to head off speculation that two people sharing the same role were unlikely. (Hellsnake and Daniels both being millers - little did we know what was to come...) Nathan questioned the two of us being bulletproof in a throwaway line on Day 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105392.html#msg105392), and Moses explained this to him in the very next post.
Once again, for me to be guilty of what Nathan claims requires a truly extraordinary gambit - doubly so for a Serial Killer, since that's a 3rd Party role that NEEDS to survive to win the game. As 3rd party I would have no interest in Hellsnake's fate (Scum or Town, just another corpse), so why expose myself to danger to head off an attack on him? Why make a claim to have acted on Moses when Moses was already known to be suffering from a possible slowkill? If Nathan wanted to push me as Scum, I guess I could see that gambit (because I could still win if my gambit failed but helped Scumteam as a whole), but doing it as a lone 3rd party player would take way more balls than I've got.
Holding off voting until I've taken a look at other people.
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BTW, Jack, I at least should be around at deadline.
I have to run some errands right now, but I'll be back well before that (7-8 PM my time, so after dinner, and I don't have any plans for the evening).
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Briefly: I should be around at the deadline. I still think Hayles is worse - I don't remember any positive contribution from him - but I wouldn't oppose a Greaves lynch, and am willing to vote to lynch him rather than anyone else (certainly rather than Kolgomorov) if it comes down to that. Finger remains on Hayles, will convert it to a vote a couple of hours before deadline if nothing changes.
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Ronald Dale;
Regarding Ethan Hayles...
This post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104574.html#msg104574) has the opening statement that basically boils down to him lurking and posting just to avoid that claim. Uh what why mention that?
His last post in D1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104751.html#msg104751) shows he has suspicion on Tyrone and Peyton, the latter because of the full analysis that reminded Ethan of who were lurking. The former honestly feels like a bandwagon hop, given his three serious posts on the day were a vote for the wrong reasons on me, then changing that into a lurker prod and an offhand comment Tyrone didn't seem that terrible to him and then a full-swing TYRONE IS SO SCUMMY HE MUST BE LYNCHED vote on Tyrone, which seemly stems from Tyrone giving up.
At least that's what he's bringing up and I don't really like it. It doesn't feel genuine, it rings of bandwagon hopping at the last moment.
His second Day 2 post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104954.html#msg104954) is a reaction against me, reflection on Tyrone and ends with a justification on his case on Peyton which I honestly disagreed with at the time and still do.
The offhand comment seems a bit off to me though. Kinda like acknowledging something's going on but not bothering to read deeper into it. By this point in the game it's the first time he talked about anyone not Callahan, Peyton or me. Mind that he repeats his "it could be suspicious it could not be" he used in Day 1 as well to justify not paying any mind to a dispute ─ it feels to me he really likes staying out of conflicts and out of the spotlights. Maybe a bit too darn much for my tastes.
Still stoked solely singularly on certain people (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105078.html#msg105078), and if you read this post it should be noted he only talks about the three leading people other than Peyton. And only Pietro doesn't strike him as bad town-- until Hellsnake says he'll contribute later, then says he'll be gone for x amount of hours and then STILL posts.
What, was it suddenly so scummy that someone decided to contribute after all? And the obligatory mention of me, probably so he can jump on me if there's a case to be made, I bet.
Promised reread and content; does not deliver (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105645.html#msg105645). Careful accusation against Peyton at the end of the post for... "not enough content", but apparently nothing really WRONG with his posts EVER other than "lots of fluff, no content"... obviously disagree (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105654.html#msg105654). Kolgo gave us little to work with and flawed content (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105825.html#msg105825), but WHAT IS THIS FLAWED CONTENT?
And his current "case" is just sitting on the Russian for "content", even though we are in friggin' LYLO.
Right, Ethan Hayles, maybe you need to review your own content because you've never bothered articulating your cases except for your case on Peyton, which was... oh, what was it? "Reporter + No Content".
This song and dance has gone on long enough. Greaves is the other guy getting my big black eye.
##VOTE: Ethan Hayles
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Hokay. Time to put my money where my mouth has been today.
While I've been focusing more on Nathan, my three main suspects today have been the three people who were on both trains, which are Nathan, Jack and Nicolai. I guarantee at least one of these people is scum.
Nathan's play has been questionable, and going over it I see a high probability of scumitude. But when I get down to it, Nicolai still comes off far, far worse than him. Nicolai had two posts in the first two days after the jokevote phase. While the content of those was passable, this is still textbook scum lurker strategy. Today he's just been kinda blathering on non-committal-like. It feels like we're constantly doing the same thing, which is go after the people who stick their neck out with bad play and leave the people who are being OVERTLY SCUMMY alone. This isn't to say I'm ignoring the possibility of Martin Andrews being guilty of the same thing, but Nicolai has the mark of voting for both lynches on him. While I can totally see Martin's lack of a vote yesterday being calculated, we have to go with the evidence in front of us.
I still don't know what to think about Jack. He's sort of all over the place. Still behind both Nicolai and Nathan though in the grand scheme of things. Possibly behind Martin Andrews as well, but still one to watch if the flip does not go our way.
All things being equal, I have to go with Nicolai on this one. I don't particularly like my company in voting, but thats how it goes sometimes.
##Vote: Nicolai
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No, dammit. I am not comfortable putting someone at L-2 in possible LYLO, which this is, but I'm even less comfortable having Kolmogorov tied with him. ##Vote: Ethan Hayles.
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Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [3]: Ethan Hayles, Nathan Greaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko)
Ethan Hayles [4]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [1]: Martin Andrews
No vote placed: Peyton Hadley, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Ethan Hayles is 2 votes away from buying an entirely new farm.
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO. Day 3 will end in 4 hours.
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Two of the other people I wanted to look over seem to be the developing trains of the day. Seamus, the third, will have to wait.
Starting with Ethan.
Day 1 is Day 1. I desperately hope we aren't so bereft of evidence as to have to dip into that well. He was on the mislynch train.
I covered his early Day 2 play on, well, Day 2. Whether I was reporting (rather than WoTing, which I'll be the first to admit), I leave to others to judge. I still hold that jumping on me for reporting, which means not providing content, and then acknowledging that I'd turned him on to content when he re-read my posts was lolwhat. He started this strange case on Day 1 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104751.html#msg104751), which is fine - but on Day 1 when he posted it, he didn't seem to consider it all that strong even for Day 1. On Day 2, when we had quite a bit of new information, he jumped onto it with renewed vigor (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104946.html#msg104946). Later (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104954.html#msg104954) he'll explain that he obviously would have noticed Pietro (>_<) and Andrews himself as he went on, but... yeah.
And of course, this came the morning after somebody tried and failed to nightkill me.
After initial reflection I thought, oh, he'd be crazy to press that case on me if he'd been involved with the nightkill. As I think about it more, though, he didn't know I knew I'd been the target and may have thought that when I didn't claim, I didn't realize what had happened.
A weak case early in Day 2, OK, I guess. A weak case early in Day 2 against a person someone with a nightkill power wanted to eliminate and couldn't? To me that's a lot more suspicious.
I had a long post about the rest of Ethan's Day 2, but in looking below I see BarDale has covered the exact same points I was going to make there.
Only thing that strikes me is that Ethan backed off me toward the end of Day 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105294.html#msg105294), jumped right back on with his first major post of Day 3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105654.html#msg105654) and then immediately jumps right back off (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105825.html#msg105825) when I explain the Kolmogorov/Cult Leader thing.
The main thing that bothers me about Ethan is his aggressive Day 2 push on me, and only because of the previous night's activity. I can't get a good read on his Day 2 without looking at Kolmogorov, who is next anyway.
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Quick note: Seamus and Kyle. (Although from glancing at the topic Kyle looks good so far today, so whatever.)
I will note that three of the four people I'm most suspicious of (Hayles, Greaves, Handley), are all on the third! Not sure what to make of that.
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Nicolai Kolmogorov. In Soviet Russia, Town Lurks? Let's see.
The most prominent case against Kolmogorov is that he simply hasn't been around much - a single, solitary post on Day 1.
Looking at that (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104635.html#msg104635) - yes, I hate to look at Day 1, but let's look at it anyway for at least this much - we never DID get an explanation of Kolmogorov saying he tutored Chad. There was mention of player meta behind this statement, but does that just mean he was speculating on player meta in a flavorful way? We've yet to find out. The rest of the post, in which he lands on the Tyrone train, is a whole lot of flavor surrounding repeats of other people's arguments.
Kolmogorov initially appears to be set for more near-zero Day 2 presence, promising to read the topic and post in "a couple hours." Instead he doesn't return for more than 24 hours. When he does, he settles his vote on Pietro (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105386.html#msg105386), which obviously I thought was a good call, but he gives not a single iota of REASON for doing so. This looks terrible to me when I reread it, especially knowing that Pietro was, all evidence to the contrary, Town. In fact, when Kolmogorov does actually comment on Pietro, he seems to think he's playing about like a Cop would (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105404.html#msg105404).
Why is that important? Because in addition to the lack of a case on the person he's voting for, look at the timing. Kolmogorov only contributes on Day 2 AFTER the Two Town Trains already formed and picked up a full head of steam. In other words, by the time he put his opinion in (despite giving almost no actual opinion on the person he ended up voting), by the time he actually participated in the thread in a meaningful way, we were for all intents and purposes LOCKED IN TO A TOWNIE LYNCH.
Then the Cult Leader kerfluffle. Previously, Kolmogorov seemed to recognize that alignment-switching roles were out. But then he reacts to Hellsnake as though such roles are back on the table. He switches and votes for Hellsnake right after that, saying the snake's role is unbelievable due to power level. This comes right after the Cult Leader line, so it's not hard to read it as a continuation of that, though in fairness that's not explicit.
I've already mentioned the MAJOR problem I have with people voting based on what they think is too powerful. Same applies here as to Nathan's case on me, except in this case we have an actual flip backing up that this is a bad idea.
Kolmogorov has only one major post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105833.html#msg105833) here on Day 3 (shades of Day 1?). (His first post is just complying with confirmed-townie Moses's request to post who he investigated.)
He mentions how "Hellsnake was terrible for several reasons beyond his role" - a position several people, most notably also Kyle, have advanced, and one which I strongly disagreed with. Remember my last post of Day 2 where I was going to do a huge analysis of Pietro and Hellsnake and had to rushpost the summary of it? IMO, Hellsnake actually contributed a lot and scumhunted well prior to his roleclaim. The only legit case on him was the sloppiness of how he went about that claim, and even that turned out to be wrong. I'll chock this up to philosophical differences, or maybe not doing the same degree of in-depth reread with that focus.
Kolmogorov doesn't like how Ethan selectively remembered the Cult Leader stuff. Well, if we're not liking inattentiveness, how about missing which player Ethan was even attacking re: Cult Leader in the first place? It was me, not Jack.
Like Kolmogorov I have trouble getting a read on O'Malley/O'Excal. UNLIKE Kolmogorov, I don't believe all four of our "Millers" are innocent and I'm not inclined to just throw out Moses's investigation from Night 1/Day 2. We still have a scenario that fits his numbers:
Three Millers, Three Scum, One Godfather. Six from the Outside (the three Millers and three regular Scum), Four from the Inside (Three regular Scum and the Godfather). Didn't someone else say they were nearly certain a Godfather exists?
If that's the case, one of the four claimed Millers would be Scum. It can't be Hellsnake, who is dead town. Daniels looks the best of the three surviving Millers to me, Kolmogorov the worst (so far; O'Malley to follow after dinner).
Ethan looks better to me because Kolmogorov looks like the worse of the two, but I could also see Kolmogorov as being bussed.
I see Hargreaves STRONGLY believes Kolmogorov to be Town and implies there's role info backing that up, though? Hargreaves has looked good to me so far so I'm inclined to listen, but Kolmogorov looks really bad on this reread.
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First off, something that is starting to get aggravating:
Then the Cult Leader kerfluffle. Previously, Kolmogorov seemed to recognize that alignment-switching roles were out. But then he reacts to Hellsnake as though such roles are back on the table. He switches and votes for Hellsnake right after that, saying the snake's role is unbelievable due to power level. This comes right after the Cult Leader line, so it's not hard to read it as a continuation of that, though in fairness that's not explicit.
Um, no, and this is why it's irrelevant. Take the Cult Leader line out there and that post doesn't lose its meaning - that role *was* quite unbelievable due to its ridiculous power level, and I fail to see where my reasoning failed there.
However, you do bring up a good point re: Moses Bike's claim, and thus I am not 100% sure about my read of Seamus O'Excal again. <mutter>.
Seamus looks...the phrase "just there" comes to mind. He's never said anything objectionable, but he's always been in the background. Not quite active lurking either though, because he's had an opinion, it just never happened to be actively bad. Eh. Going to put him in the "likely Town" box for now.
Hutchins to be posted in a second, first want to get my case and vote out, and that is the one specifically on Hayles. He has failed to impress me at all since his last post. For instance,
Nikolai's latest post does nothing to remove those suspicions. Past the first paragraph, we have: excuse of posting on instinct (which does nothing to remove my suspicions as it's just as easily a cover for a mistake as it is the truth)
Yes, so it's a null tell and not a scumtell. Next.
The rest of it is equally invalid - the only valid point on me is the lurker charge - but in that way, how am I different from several other lurkers (Andrews, etc)? And don't bring up the Cult Leader point because it's not a scummy mistake in the slightest, it's just a mistake.
Now, see, I agree with a lot of your principles, at the same time, you don't seem to actually be scumhunting effectively either. You seem to mix up scumtells with things that are inconducive for determining alignment or sometimes just plain derp-type mistakes, and several of your cases these days have been centered around them - which doesn't endear you in my eyes in the slightest.
##Vote: Ethan Hayles
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Doing a re-read on Nikolai right now (I still don't see him as that scummy, but maybe I'm missing something by reading his posts from the last post view instead of in context), but for now... Peyton, I'm going to have to ask you again: Who did you target last night? I'm thinking there's more to your power than you know, or perhaps more than you're letting on. And I'd like you to answer before the next night, please.
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Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [3]: Ethan Hayles, Nathan Greaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko)
Ethan Hayles [5]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [1]: Martin Andrews
No vote placed: Peyton Hadley
Ethan Hayles is 1 vote away from the fathomless void of eternal oblivion heaven.
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO. Day 3 will end in 75 minutes at ~9:00 EDT.
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((Yes, that particular point was a null tell, but when you're already looking suspicious and your defence does nothing to alleviate those suspicions, then it's worth mentioning.
Andrews' content since his return has, in my opinion, been quite good, and that's the big difference between you and him. And the Cult Leader thing looks scummy to me, no matter how many times you say it isn't. Chalk it up to playstyle or whatever, but that looks horrible to me and the fact that you keep dismissing it by simply saying "It's nothing" is just even worse.
I like how your entire case against me seems to be attacking me for, what, focusing on mistakes that could be made by either side? Funny that that should be the basis of your case when all that effectively does is... disregards my case against you.))
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Hm. The problem, Nik-o-lai, with askin' us to disregard the whole cult leader gaffe... well, you make it AFTER you point out that the rules allow for no alignment switching. Pointin' out the rule comes on April 25, 2AM, and talkin' to Moses about being a cult leader comes on April 25, 4PM. A mistake made in earnest? Perhaps, an' I'm inclined to buy at the moment that given it's the only thing that I really see wrong with yer play, lurkin' aside. The whole thing about Pietro playin' like a cop comes before we know fer sure that he's a paranoid cop, an' though I ain't followed Mafia enough to know proper cop play, layin' low and goin' after someone I done examined the next mornin seems like the thing I'd do.
I think that Greaves and Hayles beat you out on bein' suspicious but yeh ken't just ask us to stop bringin' up what's a pretty dang large mistake.
Now, Hargreaves... I done think, given we're an hour to deadline... well, seein' how the next hour goes you may be inclined to divulge what makes you so confident in the ruskie. If it's lookin' like he ain't gonna be the one lynched (and since Hayles is at L-1 he may not be), an' we're all still around in the mornin', well... You may want to divulge the infermation tomorrah.
-
Indeed. I won't say more unless Nikolai's actually on the block; should I die in the night, well, you lot should be able to figure it out.
-
O'Malley continues to fall of my radar. (OOC, ha!)
I believe I've already covered the O'Malley/Hellsnake interaction on Day 1. In short, I think Hellsnake did one thing clearly wrong before his roleclaim and assorted weirdness, and that's not putting a vote down and defending not putting a vote down. The initial lack of a vote seems to be the crux of O'Malley's argument against Hellsnake, but it's surrounded by stuff I can either generously call flavorful or otherwise say is just bad reasoning. Toward the end of the day he switches to Pietro in a post that does have solid analysis on multiple cases. I'll note that he says he'll be around at deadline, but doesn't post. In fairness there wasn't much to say at that point.
But whatever, Day 1.
On Day 2, starts off on Pietro and is the first to note Pietro's BS about Ty being useless as a reason to vote him. He continues to provide solid analysis on multiple cases throughout early day 2, including bringing up some stuff no one else seemed to touch on (like the way Dale and Hayles kept interacting to that point).
To this point I'm thinking, only objection is Day 1 and he's otherwise looking good, an involved townie.
Then, though, he comes with this weak sauce (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105284.html#msg105284). This is his Miller claim, which I have no problem with (he immediately delivers flavor, which I think is good because it lets us look for inconsistencies). O'Malley drops his vote on Hellsnake and bases his case on a combination of Hellsnake's "rolefish" (which, I swear, did no one else but me understand what he was doing there once he claimed Miller?) and then, ironically, on Moses's information - the very thing Hellsnake's miller claim was to try to puzzle out. O'Malley doesn't seem to consider the possibility of a Godfather, even though almost every game has one, and instead says three Millers is one Miller too many. (I think four is, for the record.)
A mistake or a Scummy action? It looks Scummier to me because that's O'Malley's last contribution of the day (Hellsnake, of course, goes on to get lynched), and then on Day 3 defends his very bad reason for making that switch.
In the same post he says Miller is a null tell "unless Daniels and Kolmogorov are both Scum," again ignoring the Godfather stuff - this time AFTER others went over it on Day 2. I note that he seems very eager to silence this line of inquiry, mentioning it again in a later post. Chad is also in on this. I... do not agree that Moses's information was useless. I can see AT LEAST one scenario that fits it, if not two. Flipflops on Ronbard, first saying Ronald doesn't look as bad, then in his next post saying he still thinks there's something between Ronald and Ethan (votes for Ethan).
Day 2 end and Day 3 look very shaky to me, downright Scummy at times but probably not as bad as the other two?
Multiple ninjas! Jack's is the most relevant.
Jack, I did not target you, if that's what you're asking. I do not wish to say who I did target, however, because if the person I targeted is NOT Scum, I'm almost certain they have an informational role!
-
'snot what I'm asking at all. I'm asking you to divulge this information because whether or not they die tonight will confirm or deny my suspicions. And, if revealed after-the-fact, then it's much harder to take the information at face value.
But since at the moment I'm more concerned about powers you're unaware of than I am of powers you're outright lying about (and thus your alignment), I won't press the issue further today.
-
KYLE HANDLEY
Day 1/2 case stands as it was. Attacked Moses on the basis of flavor, then switched to Hellsnake it what seemed like a totally random manner. I completely disagree that his case on Hellsnake was worth a damn, because on my Hellsnake reread the snake looked good up until his roleclaim and the following shenanigans.
I've said all of this before (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105068.html#msg105068).
His Day 3 play looks much better and more sensible. Lots of analysis, multiple well-reasoned cases. Off the table for today, as far as I'm concerned, since my only serious knock against him is his Day 1/Day 2 switch.
Ninja'd by Jack:
O_o
I'm going to be very upset with the Mod if my seemingly not-even-supernatural bodyguarding ability turns out to have an attached slowkill.
But yeah, I strongly believe it's better if I don't post the name at this point.
-
I strongly want to vote Nicolai. To me he seems the scummiest, but I don't want to put him at L-1 due to Hargreaves' stuff. -_-
-
Looking at it again, he'd only be at L-2 and all the other people I think have looked significantly Scummy are already on him.
##VOTE Nicolai Kolmogorov
Completely torn between trusting someone who I think has been a good Townie to this point, and trusting my own scumhunting, but I just can't let Kolmogorov slip. He's had so little content and almost all of it is bad, when it isn't regurgitated.
-
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [4]: Ethan Hayles, Nathan Greaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Peyton Hadley
Ethan Hayles [5]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves, Nikolai Kolmogorov
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [1]: Martin Andrews
Ethan Hayles is 1 vote away from the gallows.
With 11 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. It is Potential LYLO. Day 3 will end in 25 minutes at ~9:00 EDT.
-
Back from being out all day. I don't like Greaves and I don't like Handley and I'm not too hot on Andrews and Seamus either. No time now to go try to make detailed examples but their play just feels... smug, as opposed to the disorganization and wariness in the rest of town. I don't like Hayles either - STILL on the cult leader business? Come on man that's just clearly meaningless either way.
I guess I will hammer Hayles if need be since I really dislike the Kolmogorov train. I'm not at all sold on him being town but I feel the attacks on him are coming from shady reasons.
Kyle especially is all up the wrong tree I think. "Being on both trains" day 1 and 2 doesn't tell us anything that simply being on the day 1 train doesn't since BOTH MAJOR TRAINS DAY 2 WERE TOWN.
-
((Yep, fine, guess it's come down to it. I've been avoiding the claim for two very obvious reasons - one is that it's a power role, the other being that it's only been against the dead, although for very clear reasons.
I'm a Cop. And, as for me? Not confirmed, but Insane.))
Y'see, this whole thing here? It ain't actually happening. This is a dream - a dream shared by me and Hutchins. I'm controllin the good guys, he's controllin the bad guys, y'see? He said somethin after a meetin about tryin t'get the people to kill each other, but needed the right incentive to kick things off. He said his death would be good enough, and that we could, y'know... dream it.
What with it bein my dream an' all, I can see some things I shouldn't know, but... there's somethin else there. I think it's Jon, so I'm kinda reluctant to trust my results...
((So there you have it. First night was 'Snake, came out Scum. Decided to ignore it on sanity reasons, and targeted Pietro N2. Came out Scum. Miller apparently overrides sanity, and I'm insane. Haven't had an actual use for it yet, unfortunately, so make of that what you will.))
-
Looking back, I think Nathan is MORE LIKELY to be a philosophical difference, whereas Ethan, where he's been bad, has just been bad (and suspicious).
I think I'm sitting on the following:
Kolmogorov > Hayles > O'Malley = Greaves > Kyle/Sopko > Andrews = Chad
Not enough time to post on those last two, generally "not enough" on the former and "consistently disagree, but not necessarily think is Scum" on the latter.
-
AAAND there's the almost certain lie.
DO NOT BELIEVE Miller overrides Sanity.
-
Ronald Dale;
Returns "scum" to sane cops and "town" to insane cops
From the Hellsnake flip, Hayles. What's next, you'll be Paranoid?
-
I don't think Hellsnake was the best Night 1 target, Pietro was, by a lot. And considering you hardly MENTION Hellsnake early on, DO NOT BELIEVE.
Pietro was a shitty Night 2 target as well. He played like 100% Scum and you would have had extra reason to doubt his Copclaim. DO NOT BELIEVE.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE Ethan Hayles
That's Hammer.
-
As Hadley notes, that is in fact the judge's gavel.
Lynch result will be posted shortly.
-
Final votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Chad Hutchins
Nikolai Kolmogorov [3]: Ethan Hayles, Nathan Greaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Peyton Hadley
Ethan Hayles [6]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves, Nikolai Kolmogorov, Peyton Hadley
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [1]: Martin Andrews
---
At the last second, Chad decided that the funeral would be held on the green in town, not up in the mountains as Jon had allegedly requested. "Trust me," he said. "It's... better, this way."
Most people shrugged and accepted that it was the scion of House Hutchins' choice. There was one odd exception, though, in Jeb Cress, the proprietor of Rosie's. His eyes flaring, he declared "UNACCEPTABLE. This sounds like the Altar of Aorako! This is a sacred quest; we must obey. YOU! Show me the way to the original funeral site!" A poor, cowed, pallbreaker shrugged and went off with him to the stables to hire a horse from new stablemaster Seamus O'Malley, who took Jeb's money without asking much for the reason behind his sudden shift in behavior.
"What's got into 'im?" whispered Farmer Hayles to Ronald Dale. "I have no idea. Only been a local for... uh... not that long, really," the novelist replied.
---
Even during the funeral, people were at work in the background. Sheriff Hutchinson exited the funeral to be greeted by his excited deputy.
"We've found Pietro's diary, sir! It makes for... interesting reading. Seems like..." Deputy Webster trailed off, then continued in a fierce whisper - "He was a communist."
"I should have guessed." Sheriff Hutchinson shook his head. "Those Italian immigrants, bringing their popery and their socialism and their wine... well. I have to admit, the wine isn't bad. Back when it was legal, of course. Uh... let's just not talk about that anymore. Anything else interesting?"
"Well. There's lots of information about his... er... activities with the Manzoni family in New York, and routing legal Canadian liquor through Marbury on its way to Boston. It might be best if this was left out of any public records, though. Can't have Marbury looking like a den of vice. There was, ah, one other thing. Seems Pietro was planning to set up some stills locally to skip having to make the trip to Canada. They set 'em up... somewhere in the mountains... not really sure from the description he wrote, but anyways, one of his compatriots, Patrick - you met him, tall, freckles? - he up and disappears two and a half weeks or so ago! Pietro goes nuts, best I can tell. Starts ranting about how Pat was reliable and wouldn't just leave. Apparently his next trip to Boston - this is a week and a half ago- he searches for Pat, comes up empty, and then returns to Marbury, and starts leaving crazed scribblings about how this entire town is guilty of his murder and should be investigated! I mean, come on now. Our town's a great town, right? Why would anyone think that? Pat's probably off with a mistress in Rochester right now!"
Sheriff Hutchinson nodded. "Yeah, we didn't receive any reports of a murder or a missing person back then. Can't imagine there's anything to it. Fellow just overreacted a mite. I have to wonder, maybe he was killed in self-defense? He goes all crazy on some innocent Marbury resident, who then has no choice but to... uh... stab him 14 times. Maybe that was a little excessive, but still. You just don't say that kind of thing about Marbury, claiming we're guilty of murder. Speaking of murders.. well. This Bike fellow sounds like a suicide, but I suppose we should do something about finding Giovanni's killer, assuming this wasn't some kind of commie-gangster infighting. And Callahan could still have had accomplices when he murdered dear old Jon. Let's gather up the suspects again, and have a chat."
---
The discussion seemed to drone on interminably, never really reaching a conclusion. At last, Jack Daniels grew impatient. "Hayles! You're not helping us enough! Sitting back on the sidelines.. you must not really want us to find the real killers! Which means you must be one!"
"This is ridiculous! Since when is being unhelpful to the town of Marbury a crime? You don't see the Widow Avil being helpful ever, and we're not lynching her!"
"Yeah, Jack is right!" Others now joined in. "Why'd you do it? Poor Jon... stabbed in the back! ..no mercy for 'im, god rest his soul..."
Ethan had a more annoyed look on his face, now. "Come on! A knife? That's not my style at all!"
"Objection!" yelled Seamus. "So you admit you have a style! A fatal error which is as good a confession as we could ask for!"
"You're... you're being irrational! You're just afraid your superegos will be damaged by this, your self-image of manly confidence. Failure to act would lead to a critical breakdown between what you imagine yourself to be and the cruel reality of not actually being able to solve this crime! This is just a case of the id running wild in this town." Hayles now turned to Sheriff Hutchinson. "Now, Sheriff. Let's think this through, and what it'll be like for you tomorrow. You'll 'ave hung an innocent man... and you'll be in tears, begging your wife or a minister to forgive you. You'll feel terrible! Now wouldn't you rather just avoid that? Let's go play baseball instead!"
The room paused a moment to consider Hayles' words.
"He... he's got a point in there, I think," the sheriff eventually replied. "I WOULD feel terrible after I hung an innocent person. Huh, maybe we should just go home after all."
"... wait a second," Sam Hargreaves, village vet, noted. "Aren't we just going on his own word he's innocent? Won't we feel great if we hang him and he's guilty?"
"Aw, shucks, ya got me." Hayles gave a jaunty slump of his shoulders. "'ow 'umiliating to 'lose' in my own dream! Oh, fine, I'll let you all in on the secret. See, you're all fake versions of the real townspeople in me brain. This is a fun alternate version of Marbury where you're all secretly witches and sorcerers who need to be purged! I was playin' along with Hutchins. It is pretty weird 'ow long this dream has lasted, but I guess I'll just feel really well rested when I wake up next morning, 'eh? Still, it'll be nice to visit the real Marbury again, where everyone is just honest folk and friends!"
---
Hayles maintained a dippy smile on his face all the way to the gallows. Once more, Dr. Gottlieb and Rev. Jones were summoned to watch.
"Aw, man, I don't want this to be a nightmare or nuthin'. Let's just finish this short an' sweet. Okay... waking up... any second now... annnnnyy.... second... now...."
There was a thud, and then - a crack.
The town held its breath...
...and the 'dream', if that be all the world is, did not end.
---
"Look at this!" yelled Deputy Webster, pointing to a library of books off to the side in Hayles' home. "Freud... Jung... Adler... Charcot... Binet... who would have thought that a farmer with an 8th grade education would have been such a fan of psychology? The hobbies people secretly have... can't say I've found anything else suspicious here, though. Certainly no bloody knives or secret organization regalia. Hayles was an odd one, but he seems innocent enough... to me, at least?"
Ethan Hayles, Scum Psychologist, has been lynched! (Nightkills aren't normal nightkills; they seem to be based on psychology somehow...*)
It is now Night 3. You have 24 hours to submit night actions. As a flavor note, "Night 3" will take 3 in-game days, as asking people to assemble on an impromptu citizen's jury on the weekend would be just un-American. Not to mention that everyone's going to be watching the Marbury - Hilton game, right?
* As a reminder, scum do not get full flips this game, though any information given is accurate. Also don't assume that this role has anything to do with the "Psychiatrist" role, which is an illegal alignment-changing role, so this does not imply a serial killer exists.)
-
Thus, the town went to sleep. The disturbances of late had been exceedingly strange, but perhaps they would be gone with the mad Hayles' death? It's true that there didn't seem to be any evidence that he'd committed any murders, but he had appeared quite insane and had claimed to be trying to purge Marbury of witches and sorcerers... not that there were any to be had here, right?
There was a good distraction on hand anyway: the Marbury - Hilton game, which could make or break the Ospreys' hopes of reaching States. Could tiny Marbury Senior High stand up to Hilton despite Hilton's superior training and larger bench? The answer rested on star running back, Chad Hutchins. It was a rocky start for Marbury, as Hilton's quarterback burned through Marbury's weak pass defense to jump to a 14-0 lead in the first quarter... but Marbury didn't give up hope. Nope, their running game kept on slogging through, with Chad routinely taking 3 tackles to down. Even after Hilton began expecting it, they had great difficulty stopping the Hutchins rush. And Marbury kept at it, even in the second half. For those who had seen Marbury's earlier games, this was quite the surprise, as keeping up pressure with such a small team was difficult. If anything it seemed like they were getting stronger, and shrugging off repeated blocks as if they were nothing, and showing no signs of exhaustion. And Chad... why, it seemed Chad had almost grown an inch in the course of an hour itself. His face was inscrutable, his expressions frozen, and his muscles bulging. Why, it almost seemed unnatural how much punishment he was able to take as he repeatedly ran down the field, scoring 3 touchdowns himself to even the game up...
With 45 seconds left, Hilton broke the tie by kicking a field goal. Marbury was now down 24-21, and everything would depend on this kickoff return. Sure enough, Chad lined up to receive... and charged down the field at an alarming rate, his legs seemingly elongating. An attempted blocker was sent flying 6 feet into the air from attempting to stop Chad's frenzied rush. "The 20... the 10... touchdown, Hutchins! Marbury has won the game!"
Amid all the celebration and dancing amidst the Marbury side, only a few noticed one oddity. Chad Hutchins, the sole reason the football team had come so far, didn't join in, and instead walked off into the horizon almost immediately, not turning to anyone, and not letting anyone see his face. His form was... unusual. Bent, not right. Had he been injured and was hiding it? Or was this some other change he was shameful of?
--
On Saturday night, as Sheriff Hutchison made a casual drive about town, he noticed the light on in the second floor of the Hutchins household... if he recalled correctly, the reading room from his last visit there. Was the young Hutchins ignoring Jack Daniels' advice and reading the works of his father? Hutchison shrugged.
--
Sunday morning brought a new queerness, as Rosie's proprietor Jeb Cress finally returned from the mountains... ecstatic and raving... and... who's that woman with him?! "RAŠGA KALAGUL! She returns!" Jeb exultantly declared. "I can reveal my secret now! My wife Mary didn't really die three years ago! No, no... she... uh... she was taken to a very secretive medical clinic that tried a revolutionary new treatment on her! But they insisted I go through with the funeral for show, and we just used a doll for the body! Yes! That's it!" The woman, "Mary," still seemed shell-shocked and confused, and said nothing. News of her amazing return spread like wildfire.
There was another oddity. Not exactly a return, but... Sheriff Hutchison found a strangely familiar man visiting his home. Doesn't he look like Moses Bike?
"I'm, uh... I'm Moses' younger brother. Heard about his tragic end, came up to Marbury do what I could, collect his possessions and all."
"I see the both of you have the family looks good 'n' strong." The resemblance was uncanny.
"Yah. People always said that we were spitting images of each other. Anyway, uh, I found my brother's diary of the events up here. I'd say I'm pretty up to speed about things, and since I wasn't here around the time of Jon Hutchins' murder, you can pretty well trust me to be a neutral voice. Would be happy to lend a hand on the off chance my brother's madness was related and to avenge him."
The sheriff nodded, while still being impressed at this strange doppelganger of a brother.
--
Sunday night, Sheriff Hutchison saw the light on in the second floor of the Hutchins household again. Was Chad still reading up there? Had he been at it continuously? "Not my problem anyway," the sheriff thought.
--
"AIIIIIIIIIIEEEeeEEEe!" shrieked Margie Jenkins, the maid who cleaned the Hutchins household every Monday. "It's... it's GONE! Come look!"
The stately Hutchins house had always been a bit apart from town, in its own secluded wooded area. Except now... now...
...there was nothing left but bare earth. As though it had never existed at all.
The only thing Sheriff Hutchison was able to find were a few burnt and illegible journals, and a strange symbol traced in the dirt.
Chad Hutchins, Town Squeaky-Clean Doctor, went crazy and disappeared! (Can protect one person a night from normal nightkills. Can protect self only once ever. Returns just 'doctor' to rolecops. Unknown to self, always returns a sanity-independent and mod-guaranteed town to cop investigations due to trustworthy All-American nature. Doctor targets also lose Miller status permanently.)
Mr. Gershom Bike, Moses' brother, came to Marbury to help out!
Mary Cress (NPC) must not have actually died three years ago and is now back!
----
It is now Day 4. With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. The Day will end in 72 hours. (So, yes, it is no longer potential LYLO. This is a normal Day.) Note that with a relatively "short" day like this, another prolonged spurt of inactivity from certain players risks getting them modkilled on the spot rather than saved by the Day just naturally being long. Don't let it happen.
-
Hmm... a few thoughts on rolestuff before I start the day in earnest.
This all but clears Jack for me. Chad's flip all but confirms what happened on Night 2 regarding Jack's miller status clearing up. Originally I thought "Why the heck would Chad doc him in the first place?", until the simple explanation hit me that he was doing it specifically to test out the power. Given Chad didn't call him on it, I think we have a winner there. This also explains Jack's "euphoric" state yesterday (That was him, right? Correct me if I'm wrong). We should see if he breadcrumbed anyone else as well. We had Chad on Nathan the entire day, but I don't know how much that tells us because Night 2 Chad would have had to have been on Jack, so it'd be Night 1 if he doc/copped him. So I'll have to look over Chad's Day 2 stuff, but it might have just taken until Day 3 for Chad to realize what the role did, since it was apparantly unknown to him.
Given the scum role we just got and the results of night, I think the only kills scum have access to are the slowkills we've been seeing. So far Pietro's death was an isolated incident (Moses died due to the crazies), so that discounts a Serial Killer. So we either have a one-shot vig who made a judgement call or something else all together. Given the role setup, entirely possible, but just throwing this out there. Was anyone else stricken last night? Peyton, if you can, tell us who you protected last night?
I'm still looking at Nicolai today. Ethan being first on him doesn't really disprove anything, as it could have been a setup for a bus in either direction. Nathan is still #2, depending on how my re-read of Chad goes.
-
The name's Gershom.
Need to make my presence clear and all, but don't have time to do anything until later this evening. Haven't even read the flavour in the start of day post. So here's the important stuff.
1) Hey guys, I'm a confirmed townie. No alignment-changing roles, hope I don't need to explain that any further, but I can if need be.
2) I have the results of my (well, Moses's, same difference) night 2 action. Full information on that later, but for now what I really need to hear is all the flavour that Samuel Hargreaves has. All of it.
3) The mod warned me that this might happen (so that I didn't go and ruin it by asking other players' powers and alignment in the meantime), but I haven't really being paying a great deal of attention. Also, all of these delays mean that I'm coming back into the game just as I'm about to lose nearly all of my free time. So forgive me if the following position is horribly out of date:
I need a good reason not to vote for Nikolai, for partially claiming the slow kill with the whole 'forgetting conversation crap', miller rolecop claim and for what I was perceiving as very controlled lurking and voting.
I've seen people defend Nikolai, so assuming good reasoning is provided for the above, I need a good reason not to vote for Kyle, for dropping the vote on me at the start of day 2. When, assuming that the slow kill is indeed of scum in nature, that scum would know I would be dying that night and wouldn't need lynching. I'd been off him assuming he was a non-scum slow-killer, but that's been flipped.
After that, without actually reading most of day 3 properly, I think I'm at Ronald Dale.
-
On the same page as Kyle, here. Barring some kind of crazy scum miller ridiculousness, in which case I will vote for Snowfire, he's as much confirmed town as the new Mr. Bike. Hell, probably a bit more, because miller-scum is less sane than resurrection turning town to nontown.
A quick reread of Ethan's posts has been annoyingly fruitless. He did help get the ball rolling on the Nikolai train, which is WIFOMy in the extreme on its own, but less so when that train ended up being the alternative to a scum lynch. The idea that after two days of total fruitlessness, we suddenly had both leading trains land directly on scum is a nice thought, but it seems more likely that Ethan wasn't the only scumbag on Nikolai's case. So let's see what led Nathan, Kyle and Peyton to cast their votes for the Russkie.
Nathan: Well, this is a right mess (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106102.html#msg106102). After being on Ethan's case as a possible serial killer, he just reverses course, explaining that, for flavor reasons, he knows that one of the kills we saw is "not some extra option scum has" and found Ethan to be the best candidate for that. Setting aside the part where he phrases his knowledge in terms of what options scum has, he apparently feels that Ethan being the best candidate for serial killer doesn't translate to him being scummy, and never comments on the case for his lynch, one way or the other. He just throws out a LAL vote for Nikolai and doesn't post again after a quick response to me. This sits even worse with me since I already called him out once for jumping off a case for no stated reason.
Kyle: As much as I still hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE his first two days of play (although he does not sound like chapters from a self-help booklet), his reason for voting Nikolai is grounded enough. Charges not related to lurking are that he was on both townie trains, which is suspicious enough I guess but also WIFOMy (since scum know full well when they're about to lynch innocents, while town is flying blind), and says that "today he's just been kinda blathering on non-committal-like." Short on specifics but fair enough.
Peyton: Loads of analysis early on (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106168.html#msg106168), followed by a quick vote going down to the wire. "He's had so little content and almost all of it is bad, when it isn't regurgitated." (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106201.html#msg106201) Also offers a fairly in-depth look at Ethan (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106161.html#msg106161).
It's not a comprehensive analysis, but Nathan comes out of that looking rather bad. Kyle's got a decent, if brief, reason for his vote, and Peyton's grounding for his looks solid (and he's the only one who seems to have actually considered the merits of lynching Ethan).
-
"He" being JAck Daniels in that first paragraph. I assume that's obvious, but just to be clear.
-
Ronald Dale;
Glad to see we've got Bike back. What do you mean by "I'm at Ronald Dale" though?
I made my case yesterday and nothing has changed with Hayles' flip to make me think otherwise, so:
##VOTE: Nathan Greaves
Relevant Day 3 case here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105853.html#msg105853).
-
Quick post to get this info out there, because I won't have time until late tonight.
Last night I protected Samuel Hargreaves, because I didn't want to lose his apparent information on Nicolai (or the chance to pin down 1-2 scum in a lie if he wasn't telling the truth.) I'd prefer to take my Night 2 target with me to my grave.
Speaking of which, that won't be a long wait. I was the target of the (a?) slowkill and am going to die tonight. Similar flavor to what the original Mr. Bike got - mysterious, half-remembered visitor, and now my personal obsession (The King in Yellow) is going to kill me.
As such, I may as well tell our illustrious Scum that if they used that kill on me to avoid my bulletproof, possibly weakening themselves in some other way... have a big grin and attached middle finger, because I wasn't bulletproof after night 1. ^_^ Heheh. I hope Town will forgive me for this particular white lie, since despite some "OMG 2 much powar" it doesn't seem to have done any harm, and may have helped.
Mr. Bike the Even Younger is confirmed Town to me.
Jack is almost confirmed Town... but not quite. We have a claimed rolecop, Nicolai, and reason (pace Hargreaves) to believe he may be Scum. If the Scum were confident we were out of informational roles, they could most certainly pretend to be cleared to get massive townie cred. Nonetheless, I think Jack's play has been strong and claiming to be an ex-Miller would be hugely risky for Scum who didn't know every role, which I don't think (certainly hope!) they can't, at this point.
Nicolai still seems the worst to me of our surviving players, but I won't vote for him until Hargreaves chips in. Then probably Nathan.
Ronbard looks good to me for pointing out a relevant fact against the Hayles fakeclaim, not that I gave anyone time to panic and jump off the copclaim the way they did Pietro. >:)
Flavor and scumhunting to follow tonight, barring unforeseen incident.
-
:sigh: Strike the "don't" from the last sentence of paragraph six of my post.
Also, just noticed my evil grin emoticon got hijacked by the regular smile one. Ah, well. Such is (briefly remaining) life.
-
Note: I have made a very slight adjustment to Chad's flip, specifically adding that he returns just 'doctor' to rolecops (similar to Pietro's sanity not being reflected either). Also, to be clear, Chad didn't know about *any* of the Squeaky-Clean stuff, just that his treatment might have side effects.
Shale, no need to vote me. Scum Miller is an OMGWTFBBQ role so if you're asking, yes, that's an illegal role. There might theoretically be scum with the power to return false results to rolecops (if any even exist), and that may include (fake) Miller; but they wouldn't actually be a Miller, and wouldn't be informed of anything special if targeted by Chad's power.
Also, in flavor notes, Day 4 is Monday, October 29, 1928, due to not executing anyone over the hectic weekend.
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in 67 hours.
-
So, ol'
MosGershom wants me to tell him everything I know. Well, I... there's no way an outsider like him could have anything to do with all this, so alright. I just hope whatever he knows is worth it.
Right. Surprise surprise, I wasn't always a vet. Before (and indeed during) the war I was a surgeon every bit as talented as my father had been, and the fighting gave me plenty of opportunity to hone my skills. When the war itself ended my work didn't, but gradually those whose injuries were physical either recovered or died. Leaving behind those who'd been victims of shell-shock, or something alltogether more... sinister, those who'd seen things they shouldn't. At first I dismissed their tales, focussed on putting them back together, as best as I could - but I had a gift for it. It got so an hour's conversation with a man was enough for me to read his entire life story - and then, horrifyingly, I began to realise how many of their stories were true.
I travelled the world, continuing to help those who'd encountered horrors beyond man's ken - and, a welcome relief when it happened, the occasional simple madman. I always worked alone, but I never felt entirely so; occasionally I would encounter someone for whom something about them, the way they walked, the way they spoke... I just knew, somehow, they were doing the same thing I was. I'd been reassigned to some regiment - no name even, just a number - that didn't appear on any of the records, yet somehow there were always people ready to help me, and perhaps twice a year I'd receive transfer orders sending me to some other far-flung part of the world - Brazil, Malaysia, there was no logic to it - just that every time, when I arrived, I'd find people who needed me. I assumed that whoever was running this had also taken steps to ensure no-one wondered what had happened to that promising young surgeon, though to be honest I didn't really care.
I was good at what I did, very good, but my work took its toll; the stories of every patient I cured seemed to weigh upon my own sanity, as if I'd not relieved their burdens at all but merely taken them on myself. After my second personal encounter - about which the less said the better, but it lived in a chapel and fed on human flesh - I realised I couldn't take any more. Whatever shadowy group was sending me my assignments seemed to understand, and the notion of going to Marbury... well, it felt like my own decision, but I couldn't help thinking there had been some hints placed, particularly when I arrived there and sensed something... not friendly, exactly, but not hostile, and with an... attachment to this town. Becoming a vet was my idea though - I wanted to do medicine, but after what I'd heard and seen I wanted patients who couldn't even talk to me. Life here's been relaxing, pleasant even, not that I don't still wake up in the middle of the night remembering one case or another.
Last night (well, three nights ago now, whatever) was different though. I woke with a sense that something was happening; the power here was stirring, because something... foreign and unknown to it was attacking the town. It was angry but unsure, lashing out blindly. I could do nothing against our invasion, not directly anyway, but I could talk to people, and if something were to happen to them while I was there... well, I had an affinity with whatever this thing was, and I might be able to deflect its anger a little. Though quite possibly only onto myself.
I am Town Counsellor (cute, huh? I guess Psychologist was taken). This acts as a combination of rolecop and doctor/bodyguard-like protection; I talk to people and get a sense of what they can do, and if they're targetted by... well, I read the above as implying the secondary kill is town-aligned, but it's not clear-cut. In any case, I will deflect that kill, but I should expect there to be... consequences for myself (the mod's wording of this part is odd; I read it strongly as not that I'm going to die, but something bad will happen. Maybe I'll lose my powers?) if this happens. This all made a lot more sense when I thought this was about the madness slowkill, but I guess that was there to throw me off the scent.
Night 1 I targetted Kolmogorov (lurkery, seemed like he could be either scum or a town power-role). I got back (you did want all my flavour, right?) that he has a suspicious stone that he sometimes chants over in - I don't know, possibly russian, possibly something else - and there's something insightful to his eyes. He is a Miller Rolecop[?] X, where I think X is probably best left unsaid. I... actually, thinking about it, I can see why he might have wanted to use that ability, in which case my apologies if I interfered.
Night 2 I looked at Jack; didn't want to target Pietro for the obvious reason, and figured I could resolve the miller question that way. I got that he's... normal. More normal than anyone in this town has any right to be. Vanilla, i.e. roleless, with an explicit confirmation from the mod that yes, there are no vanilla roles in this game. Which made me wtf rather, but whatever.
Last night after much agonising I decided it was worth taking a risk and looked at Greaves. He's old, much older than he looks, and has been wandering for most of it. And I get the sense that he's somehow on the boundary between life and death, and could maybe reach over to the other side - Reviver Doctor.
I'll post some actual thoughts, either now or tomorrow, but this post is already hueg, Bike wanted it for something, and I figure it's worth separating my facts and opinions. No doubt there have been all the ninjas in the world.
-
Ronald Dale;
So that's... three slow kills in a row, then. That still leaves a Night 1 and Night 2 attack unaccounted for, the former being on Peyton and the latter being on Pietro.
Reading back on Day 3, I find myself teetering into stronger distrust of Sopko. I'll leave Day 1 as Day 1 but his Moses case made no sense to me.
Let's look at his first Day 3 post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105637.html#msg105637), where he makes a good argument against Greaves that I personally really agree with! But he then goes on about serious lurker cases, accuses Greaves of being a lurker, and his final suspect of Jack being completely related to roles and nothing about content.
Then there's his Day 3 second post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105816.html#msg105816) where he says more is going to be needed for him to start placing his vote. He proceeds to just passively prod people a little and talk about nothing really relevant to Greaves at all.
Or relevant to a vote anyway. I find it downright suspicious he ends his post with being in favour of a Nathan lynch while spending minimal effort on his eventual target, Kolgomorov. And in his actual vote (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106150.html#msg106150), he complains Nikolai is blathering on "non-commital"-like. Whereas Kolgomorov stated a clear dislike for Hayles, and shared others' reluctance to vote. Even Sopko's own reluctanec to vote.
It's of course entirely against him that he's on the train alternate to Hayles, and that he voted Kolmogorov after Hayles picked up another vote, and that Greaves is his partner in Kolmogorov-voting. Who he agrees here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105816.html#msg105816) is pretty darn scummy and in his votepost declares has a "high probability of scummitude", as well as he mentions somewhere that he guarantees one of Jack, Kolmogorov and Nathan is scum. This doesn't stop the good Sopko from voting Kolmogorov alongside Nathan - Nathan, whose posts have been rubbish, or Kolmogorov, who he spends a lot of time marking as a lurker. I think it would've made a LOT more sense if he had voted Greaves; especially given that Greaves has thus far not ameliorated his behaviour any bit.
I mean what the hell (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106102.html#msg106102) kind of reason does Greaves have here for voting Kolmogorov in pLYLO? His vote may be nowhere?! Vote not going anywhere doesn't help town, but it also doesn't help scum and I fail to see why you'd vote someone to prod them to vote during pLYLO.
In fact I'll debunk Greaves' Day 3 after this! He's been incredibly scummy and I can't believe Sopko agrees on that but has no problems siding with Greaves during pLYLO.
Carthrat may disagree but I don't think LAL is the most brilliant thing to adopt in pLYLO and Sopko's timing is just impeccable.
There also questionable things like his excuse for being on Hellsnake (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105637.html#msg105637), highlighting how sound his case was and what? There's no reason to excuse your lynch targets at all and it just comes off as an attempt to avoid getting attacked over it.
I'm still in greater dislike of Greaves at the moment, though.
Yes, a Wall of Text, but I'm a novelist. What do you expect? I feel like an entirely new person, 窮则变，变则通!
Dimension Shambler'd by Hargreaves and... ... what. I don't know what to say. I'll revisit that, gotta mull it over for a while.
-
Right, it's later than I realised, full reread/thoughts will have to wait until tomorrow evening. My one thought before sleeping is that Kyle looks worse than before for putting the vote on Kolgomorov when he did (though obviously I'm in a privileged position here; the rest of you will have to judge Kolgomorov really did look scummy). Also, someone targeted Peyton on night one (unless you think he was lying), so we're not looking at a one-shot vig.
Daleninja, whatever, sleep.
-
judge *whether* Kolgomtorov really did look scummy, even.
-
"Gah, morning already?" ((Sorry, all, thought we were really getting a 3-day long night phase. I'll get to work on an article shortly.))
"Anyway. I need to just find an hour or so to sit down and read through all these here notes I've got to get some good material. Been spending too long writing and not enough time actually working. ((Translation: I really haven't been giving this game the attention I should have.)) What I can definitely say right now is that Daniels is undoubtedly a non-issue, and doubly so in terms of Bike. Everything else is gonna be pending a little reread.
Before I start, though, I'll say I'm sorta conflicted about Nikolai. I'm still pissed at how he's basically been lurking around like any good Russian, but two scum wagons running along each other uncontested is either the bravest move possible from these killers, or it's just a sign that despite all his silence the guy's on our side after all. Need to sit down and think some stuff over. Shouldn't be more than an hour or two.
...Or at least that's what I was GONNA leave saying, until some guy decides to throw my claim out into the open. I...wow.
Explain to me why Nikolai has some power that you think is worth concealing, and meanwhile you tell the entire world that I'm responsible for bringing back the old guy. The very claim I was trying NOT to talk about for the sake of not attracting a kill. Jeez.
...Perhaps it is time to drop the dialect. Playing the youth was never easy for me.
The young man's claim is true, much as I would wish to have kept it concealed. It started with a trip to British India, many years ago, lost in a thunderstorm. I came across a circle of men, muttering to one another in a language I had never heard. In their midst, a body, feeble and frail to start, took form and grew youthful and lively from the brink of death itself. I screamed in shock, giving myself away. They threatened me with death on the spot unless I vowed to join their order and keep their secrets. A vow that I have kept - until today, at least.
That was the day I joined the Sacred Chosen of Thanatos, their main base thankfully being more conveniently located in Chicago. Initially I made my way to their meetings out of fear alone, but as the months passed I grew more and more intruiged, and I rose hastily in the order. Eventually it became my duty to travel the world and correct the balance of life and death itself, restoring restless spirits to The Great Wheel of life and death.
Journalism? A convenient cover story. For some reason, 'travelling necromancer' had a habit of drawing in the folks with pitchforks and torches. They don't understand that there is a balance to all things, life and death included, and in recent days Marbury has been more of an abnormality than any other place on earth. The forces are good to me, showing me this irregularity in my dreams, and I traced the killer's steps to this humble little town with all of its secrets.
As for what I can do, well, that is another story in itself. I can prevent death, true, but doing so forces me to channel my powers away from a greater potential the Sacred Chosen have given me. One who has lost his mind to insanity rather than been outright killed...I can bring them back from the grave, though not in exactly the form they once took. The human mind cannot grasp the concept of being suddenly returned to sanity, and as a result it creates a convenient cover story to explain the holes. Being his own brother, for example.
Had I chosen to protect someone, the resurrection would have been nowhere near as successful, only producing a mildly sentient husk whose opinions would be disregarded (voteless/roleless). I believed Mr. Bike to be a valuable enough asset to Town to be worth bringing back. Afterward, the Wheel will not accept any more imbalance on my part, and I cannot even offer protection.
Anyway, that is my story. Hopefully that will be enough to please you, and now I shall get around to that promised reread. If you'd prefer me to act like the youthful Mr. Greaves you all know so well, please say so. I understand a shift like this can be quite...jarring on the human mind."
-
Ooooooooookay, that throws things out of whack. This is either one hell of a scum gambit or the field just got a whole lot narrower. Barring a counterclaim or conflicting information from Mr. Bike, Graves' throws any suspicions I had of him right out the window. Scum reviver would be even weirder than scum miller, and the claim's uncontested (in a situation where I can't see why the actual reviver would let it stand, 1:1 being an awesome deal for town as usual), so I think I trust it. Meanwhile, Peyton's made a very testable claim of non-scummitude, so he drops off my radar for the rest of the day...of course, if the slowkill doesn't materialize, things get interesting.
Samuel: You just outed a doctor. One who doesn't have any power left, granted, but your post doesn't show any inkling of that detail. Explain yourself.
-
Gah, work tomorrow is not going to be fun.
The slowkill ignores protection. Which means a doctor is worse than useless; all they can do is prevent the secondary kill, which at this stage is town-friendly in practise even if it belongs to a third party (which I don't believe). On the assumption that the revive was a one-shot (since anything else would be ridiculously overpowered), his role was basically irrelevant, and unlike with the piece of Kolgomorov's role I held back, I couldn't give what flavour I have on him without revealing it.
-
((Alright, here's quite possibly the longest post I've ever produced in a Mafia game. Nice, easy-to-read summary will follow.
PEYTON HADLEY
Day 1 play is very aggressive. A serious vote for Bard gives way to a serious vote for Callahan which holds throughout the day, though to be fair Ty gave him more than enough ammunition to work with. Then, of course, comes the series of posts where he looks through everyone intently...when it's only day 1. Surely this sort of massive reread is due for later days when there's more concrete stuff to work with?
That said, he does throw in here that he doesn't like what Hayles is producing, but in his summary post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104696.html#msg104696) of the whole thing Hayles is nowhere to be seen. More interesting, the three names he gives has suspects (Ty, Hellsnake, Pietro) have all flipped Town.
Day 2, the Hadley/Ethan mechanic starts to get a lot weirder. Again, he badmouths Hayles without going so far as to vote for him, leaving his vote on the (admittedly really bad) Pietro. Still, the fact he chose to go for what was both the easier target and the Townie of the two stands out.
And of course, there's the claim. Seeing Chad flip Doc is enough to confuse me. Believing that on top of everything else we have Hadley as a BP bodyguard (especially given my own role) is extremely hard. (Given that apparently BPs/Docs/EVERYTHING lose out to the slowkill, though...)
Cue Day 3, and Hayles has disappeared from Hadley's suspicions again. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105625.html#msg105625) Hell, in his next post he's outright agreeing with him (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105720.html#msg105720) as if all his earlier points had never happened. And of course, there's the fact that he didn't vote on Hayles until it came to hammer time, by which point it was clear the Nikolai lynch was never going to happen anyway.
Honestly, if anything this reread just manages to make Hadley look worse than he did before. The only thing that's stopping me from just dropping a vote on him right now is the fact that he's claimed to be slowkilled. If that doesn't end up going through, then there's honestly no way we can let him live.
SEAMUS O'MALLEY/EXCAL
Day 1 is...well. He starts by genuinely trying to hold Bike responsible for mod-confirmed-irrelevant flavour, and the instant he starts taking flak for it he jumps onto Hellsnake instead. That sort of shiftiness really doesn't sit well with me, even on Day 1. Finally, by the end of the day his vote is lying uselessly on Pietro (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104716.html#msg104716).
On Day 2, he holds to his case on Pietro, but mentions the Bard/Hayles incident. Where things get awkward, though, is that he says 'Yes, Hayles is bad, but not only am I not voting him but I think Dale is scum trying to bus him hard!' which is a hell of a leap. Now that Hayles has flipped scum, this could have easily been a contingency plan to get something out of a partner getting lynched.
And, of course, the miller claim. I've said plenty of times already that being the third to claim doesn't entice me to him, and it still holds true today. About all he has to his name is being the first guy to vote for Hayles D3, except that earlier (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105639.html#msg105639) he'd been suspicious of Nikolai first and foremost and conveniently dropped these claims. What happened?
The reread's done nothing to win me over with O'Malley. Definitely not liking what I see here.
Daniels, as I've said, is a non-issue unless scum is psychic or something.
RONALD "BARDICHE" DALE
Really, I can't say there's much to Dale that I would complain about. His constant tunneling of Scum!Hayles is an absurd gambit that I probably wouldn't consider until all the likelier options had been tried. If he's anything, he's SK.
On that note, one thing that does stand out is this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105698.html#msg105698) post. Why do you a) break into what I assume is Chinese and b) start speaking in broken English momentarily? (My main concern is that this happened on the day after the only confirmed NK we have.)
KYLE "SOPKO" HANDLEY
Oh, boy. This was not a fun reread.
Starts off by not bothering to drop a vote anywhere, until of course we have his YOU JUST CLAIMED YOUR ROLE PM MOSES rant. Of course, this case which he follows fervently for the whole D1 and makes a point of saying 'I WANTED TO LYNCH THIS GUY' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104753.html#msg104753) on in his last post of the day...is completely disregarded by the start of D2 to go for Hellsnake instead. And of course the horrible horrible HORRIBLE idea of lynching the claimed slowkill, which does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for Town. Day 3 starts off with him saying 'hey my case was perfectly fine >:<' and then he produces solid stuff for the rest of the day.
Really, there's a part of me that wants to lynch Sopko based on the LYNCH THE SLOWKILL claim alone. Added up to everything else he's done, as well as the 'HEY LOOK AT ETHAN AND RONALD FIGHTING' point, I'm really not comfortable with him.
SAMUEL HARGREAVES
AKA The Man With The Unreadable Speech Impediment.
All that my rereading can extract from his D1 babble is the weird wishy-washy opinion on Callahan. He says that I'm misrepping the amount of danger Ty is in...because he didn't put a vote down earlier? (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104758.html#msg104758) Yeah, I'm really not understanding what he's saying here.
Day 2, he lets up on O'Malley because his early vote on Bike 'was for a reason' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104934.html#msg104934). You mean, the vote based on 'You're talking a lot so I'll vote you for flavour'? That's a really terrible reason to let off on someone.
That's about all I had to object to, though. The rest of his Day 2 and his Day 3 seem relatively solid, and about the only other thing he's done that's really pissed me off is his whole 'hey guys, guess who's secretly a necromancer?!' gig. Of the non-confirmed Townies, Hargreaves is probably one of the better ones, though in the face of O'Malley/Sopko/Hadley that isn't saying much.
And finally, a couple of nice short reads:
NIKOLAI KOLMOGOROV
lurk lurk lurk lurk Jump On Callahan Case lurk lurk lurk lurk Say Pietro's Acting Like A Cop While My Vote Is On Him (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105404.html#msg105404) lurk lurk lurk lurk Claim Miller Rolecop lurk lurk lurk Jump On Opposing Wagon lurk lurk lurk lurk.
MARTIN ANDREWS
lurk lurk lurk Jump On Callahan Case lurk lurk lurk OH GOD I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT MY VOTE BECAUSE I SHOWED UP SO LATE TO D2 lurk lurk lurk My Vote Is Lying On Sopko At The End Of D3 lurk lurk lurk.
The lurkers are, well, lurking hard and being conveniently useless in a lot of cases. I WOULD say that Kolmogorov is the scummier of the two, but there's the ending state of the wagons yesterday as well as Hargreaves's mysterious X, so he's looking a lot cleaner following this reread.
That's the long story. Summary coming up in something much friendlier to the eyes.))
-
"Hope you guys don't mind if I go back to playing good ol' Nathan the journalist. He's as much a part of me as my real self now, I guess. I like him.
Anyway. Final judgements following the LOOOOONG overdue reread, in roughly the order I trust them:
- Jack and Bike are, of course, confirmed Town.
- Hadley's claimed a slowkill, so judgement on him is pending whether his claim ends up being true.
- Nikolai's circumstances seem far too much of a gambit for him to be scum.
- Hargreaves was iffy early on when he suddenly dropped the case on O'Malley, but has been relatively clean since.
- Ronald/Bard looks very strong after Ethan's flip, and the lingering worry of his tunneling being nothing but a lucky SK guess (see: me vigging lolcats N1 in Meme) is the only thing stopping me from clearing him outright.
- Andrews is annoying in that sometimes he posts a hell of a lot but most of the time he's just nowhere. The lurking is the main charge against him, and he has no excuse like Nikolai does so he ranks high on this list.
- It's honestly very hard for me to choose between placing a vote down on O'Malley or Handley at this point. In the end, Handley's had a very shaky two days, and O'Malley's been consistently iffy from Day 1, so:
##Vote: Seamus O'Excal
Now to get to work on that article I owe you guys. Hope ya don't mind if I leave last night's dealings for the next issue so I have enough material to work with...that, and it'd sorta look like I'd actually produced my article on time. Ahem."
Nathan darts his eyes around the room, coughing inconspicuously as he returns to his seat.
-
Forgive me for not making as big a deal out of my circumstances, but most of the time I'm just working.The past couple of weeks were completely brutal for me, barely letting up until the weekends and I missed the final 12 hours of Day 3 by virtue of being 75 miles from my computer from 9 AM that morning until the following afternoon. Schedule issues are why I stopped playing Mafia for a year in the first place.
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Bike Falls Apart Amidst Gang Violence; Hayles Turns Into Fodder
The Third Entry In The Nathan Greaves Guest Report Series
Now caught fully in the grasp of its own paranoia, Marbury has witnessed three more deaths in quick succession in the last 24 hours.
At dawn today, the madness that looks set to consume the Town claimed its first victim - local fisherman Moses Bike, last seen diving into the local lake in an attempt to supposedly appease some demonic creature dwelling within. The creature, supposedly called Rath'napula, was unavailable for comment.
Harrowing news followed shortly afterward, as Deputy Sheriff Webster reported the death of newcomer Pietro Giovanni. A 'made man', as the term is used in shadier rings, Giovanni's reason for visiting Marbury is believed to be vengeance for the apparent death of his associate. Now, though, it seems that his friend's killer may well have found him first.
In spite of these tragic deaths, the investigation into the death of Jon Hutchins continues. Some small progress appears to have finally been made, though, as the first potential perpetrator of the crime has been convicted and executed.
Several locals were amazed at the claims that Ethan Hayles, a local farmer whose education was poor at best, could be capable of such a deed, but as the fingers turned on him he descended into his own breed on insanity. Condemning all in the room to being mere figments of his imagination, Hayles remained deluded up until the noose was tightened around his neck and his body hung loose from the rope. Uncovered, highly-technical psychology tomes found in his possession after his death have baffled the authorities - Hayles was too uneducated to have bought them himself.
Many have already decided that whatever villany Hayles was involved in, he was merely a pawn in a game much larger than him...
-----
"Gah, stupid typo." Nathan quickly corrects the spelling of 'Amidst' and leaves the article for later. ((Hopefully editing isn't a problem since this post is pure flavour :V))
-
Behind every good journalist is a great editor, Mr. Greaves. That's fine.
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [1]: Nathan Greaves
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in ~62 hours.
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*Zenny reads up.
/me places his lips around the hooch bottle and doesn't stop drinking until it's empty.
((I got up to Peyton's post. I will read that later. As for right now I have no bloody idea what to make of the role madness that has been claimed except to wait for potential counter claims.
Oh, except I'll say that the instant kill being town-friendly makes a lot of sense given who N2's target was (Pietro). But that's all I'm basing it off of, so I may be missing something.
Other than that I have no idea what to weigh in on aside from saying I vastly underestimated the sheer, ludicrous role madness of this game. "There CAN'T be 4 millers why would anyone do that" HAH))
-
"You seem to have developed a right curious aversion to me, Mr... Greaves. After we were getting along so well before you told us the truth, I can only assume it's your true self what doesn't cotton to my behavior."
"Quite frankly, friend, you've got me puzzled. On the one hand, Mr. Hargreaves here would have me believe you're not only an innocent, but a most upstanding gentleman. On the other, you most certainly have not comported yourself as such."
"What's a fellow to do?"
-----
First off, your case on me. Not because my dead ass needs defending, but because your attack is just monstrously bad.
I mean, really? REALLY?
What's the point of even making a case on me? When you yourself want to lynch Kyle Handley in no small part because he suggested we shouldn't hesitate to lynch Mr. Bike the Elder just because of a claimed slowkill?
But let's break down that case, since you've deigned to dangle out such a spaghetti of atrocious reasoning.
You think I've been... soft... on the guy whose copclaim I hammered... because in my Day 1 summary post he ranked behind the main points of discussion for the first two days? Because in my opening Day 3 post he, once again, didn't crack the top 4? I guess you wanted another Wall of Text, regardless of your poke at said wall now.
Of course, where was this problem with my play when your Day 3 case was entirely focused on role speculation, to the point you put out all of one actual bit of scumhunting against me - part of a massive misinterpretation or misrepresentation of my play toward Pietro (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105651.html#msg105651)? Where was my "dropping" Ethan (whose wrongness to that point was almost entirely rooted in his attack on me) then?
The rest of your Day 3 case on me is "why didn't you protect the obvious fakeclaim" (even if he did turn out town - btw, I would have *died* protecting that singularly worthless "Townie," which you would know if you'd actually bothered to read my post today) and "his power level is ovar 9000!", which is idiotic coming from a REVIVER IN A GAME THAT ALREADY HAD A FLIPPED REVIVER! God. YOU of all people building a case based on setup looks even more absurd in retrospect.
Now on Day 4 you dedicate the largest part of your post to attacking me when I've already announced a slowkill. Notice how we're no longer in LYLO? That means a theoretical Scum!Hadley would have nothing to gain from surviving One More Day and then being lynched tomorrow, except for a reference to a truly terrible Spider-Man comic. Not to mention that I wasn't exactly feeling the pressure at the end of Day 3, since Scum Hayles and your august self were the only two to bring (weak sauce) cases against me and nobody seemed to be biting. Needless to say, your pet theory from yesterday, Serial Killer!Hadley, would be incredibly moronic to claim the slowkill and get himself lynched on Day 5.
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Moving on.
I think O'Malley comes in a distant third in apparent scummyness right now, but I'll give you that he's the only person who looks like Scum who isn't involved in Hargreaves's investigations.
I'd especially highlight the fact O'Malley TWICE promised to be around at deadline and then wasn't.
Also, mathematically speaking, if we have 3 Millers, 3 detectable Scum and 1 Godfather, and both Jack and Nikolai are cleared, then O'Malley *must* be the Scum who claimed Miller. Since his claim was in the interests of getting a powerful townie (Hellsnake) lynched, it's already the shakiest.
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At this point, cases rooted in the first two days (as yours on Kyle/Sopko is) look very close to meaningless to me. By Day 3 when the situation was both more critical and clearer, he was contributing a lot.
I'd take your offense at Kyle/Sopko's lynch the slowkill suggestion more seriously if a) anyone had seriously considered voting that way, INCLUDING HIM, or b) you hadn't devoted the lion's share of a long post to attacking a claimed slowkill.
So yeah.
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Right now, I consider Sam Hargreaves's roleclear of you and Nicolai the only scumtell he's given off. Frankly, I find it very difficult to believe you're town after the way you've played these last two days, and Nicolai looked even worse to me as of the end of Day 3.
But a gambit that seems like it would have to involve at least two, if not all three of the probable three remaining Scum? That's marginally more difficult to believe even than that you're innocent.
As for Hargreaves outing your role? What did you have to gain from hiding it at this point? If you hadn't come in and said "BTW I can't do this anymore," you might have sucked a nightkill from panicked Scum/SK, perhaps saving one of our confirmed Townies or a role that still functioned.
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Finally, on the two lurkers, I was going to ask why you think Nikolai (whose player has been around) has an excuse but Andrews (whose player was NOT around) did not. When Andrews has been around I think his content has been much better.
But then I realized you probably meant Hargreaves's investigation. So agreed, reluctantly.
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Rereading your post, Nathan, the only thing that looks truly absurd and scummy is your weird attack on me.
Except...
Previously you claimed you came to Marbury as a journalist, due to visions of a lone killer haunting your dreams (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106102.html#msg106102). Now you're saying that WASN'T why you came to Marbury, you did so because it has been more of an abnormality than any other place on Earth (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106390.html#msg106390). Normally I'd write this off as "oh, lying flavor to cover a role."
Except, you had previously used that AS PART OF YOUR ATTEMPT TO PUSH A DAY 3 SERIAL KILLER TRAIN ON ME. In LYLO.
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((And by Peyton, I meant Nathan. I am tired and sober back the fuck off.))
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Oh, except I'll say that the instant kill being town-friendly makes a lot of sense given who N2's target was (Pietro). But that's all I'm basing it off of, so I may be missing something.
I think the entire game wanted him dead at that point. To town, he's an incredibly scummy player who was the alternative to what turned out to be a pretty costly mislynch. To scum, he's a claimed cop who they know isn't one of them. Knowing what we know now about his role it turned out to be a hugely pro-town kill, granted, but I'm not assuming anything about where it came from.
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"Seems to me, gentlemen, we find ourselves sorted into three groups."
"First we've got the folks who we can trust with our lives, albeit me, I'm not feeling too well about my chances of staying among their number. If I ain't dead tomorrow, you can sure as hell string me up - what I have to do to crack this open, won't leave enough of what's 'me' to deserve anything else. But I expect I will be."
((I.e., slowkill victim, will flip tonight or hang tomorrow. I could still be Scum/3rd party, and the remaining slowkiller or slowkillers NOT that alignment. But I'm dead either way, so you'll know I'm Town soon enough.))
"Gershom here, in addition to being the brother of our good Mr. Bike, ain't from around these parts, so he clearly wasn't involved in the murders."
((confirmed townie #1))
"And finally Mr. Daniels, you look downright cleaned up these last two days. I wouldn't dream of suspecting a fine, upstanding member of society like yourself."
((confirmed townie #2))
"Then we have this trio of Mr. Hargreaves's. His own self, who - pardon me, Sam, I was feeling right kind to you up until all of this, and I allow I still am - puts his imprimatur on a pair of our less than leading citizens, and then Mr. Greaves or whatever his name is, and Mr. Kolmogorov. Now, if it weren't for Mr. Hargreaves, I'd be inclined to lynch the both of those two - but his piping up did spare Kolomogorov the noose yesterday, and slung it around Hayles where it ended up belonging."
((If Hargreaves is lying, he's surely Scum. I would guess Godfather. Nathan and Nikolai look like the two Scummiest players to me, apart from Hargreaves's guarantee on them. That could be the whole Scum team, or Hargreaves could legitimately be a rolecop and have sucked 1-2 innocent Townies in with him. However, if either Nathan or Nicolai is Scum, Hargreaves seems almost sure to be as well (although not the other member of the guaranteed pair). Particularly if Nathan is Scum, since what we've seen of Nikolai's role could legitimately be a Scum role and Hargreaves could just not know it.))
"Finally we've got these four gentlemen: Mr. Dale, Mr. Handley, Mr. Andrews and Mr. O'Malley. I said yesterday I don't feel real kindly toward Mr. O'Malley, and Mr. Handley and Mr. Andrews both have the first two days on their consciences, one for what he did, the other for what he DIDN'T."
((If Hargreaves is telling the truth, Nikolai *might* be Scum but probably isn't, Hargreaves and Nathan aren't. That leaves us with these four to pick from. I would rank them O'Malley > Handley = Andrews > Dale, since that was an awfully vociferous scumbus to end Day 3 on BarDale's part if he's part of Team Scum. In this case, three of these four people would be Scum, unless Nikolai is in which case two of these four would be Scum.))
((To me the question for Day 4 is obvious: do we trust Hargreaves's claim and hunt Scum among the undetermined players, or do we test Hargreaves's claim and hunt Scum among Hargreaves's trio?))
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Wait, I take that back, Kolmogorov is a Miller according to Hargreaves, so he CAN'T be Scum if Hargreaves is telling the truth. Flipping either Kolmogorov or Greaves will tell us Hargreaves's alignment, Kolmogorov certainly, Greaves almost certainly.
It really is a 3 vs. 4 thing at this point.
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Ugh. Every time I go to post more stuff comes out and just further messes up an already confusing situation. Frustrating because it's interesting at the same time it's infuriating. Okay, today looks pretty fantastic. Let's look at all the people off the table currently, or at least being considered so by some people?
Jack: Due to role shenanigans with Chad's flip and the miller status going away
Gershom: Due to being revived.
Peyton: Due to claims of being slowkilled
Nathan: Due to reviver claim and Hargreaves claim
Nicolai: Due to Sam Hargreaves claim
Sam Hargreaves: If you're taking Nicolai and Nathan off the table due to his claim, then you're implicitly trusting him. So he probably comes off the table too.
So that leaves me, Ronald, Martin and Seamus as the only possible suspects today, depending on who you may or may not believe. Obviously we've seen some people feel differently, and we've had everyone BUT Nikolai here to say their peace, and we've had no conflicting information thusfar to immediately call any of these into question, so we just have our own wits to rely on. Bike's reaction to Hargreaves' information should also be pretty important, so I'm curious to see what he's got for us there.
Anyway, I have to agree with the assessment that it's an insane scumgambit if Hargreaves, Nathan and Nicolai are all in it together. A less popular theory that I want to put forward by far is that I disagree with Nathan in that Ronald tunnelvisioning Ethan is not as crazy a scum gambit as you'd think and shouldn't be cleared that easily because of it. Of course, if this is true it does introduce another three person scum gambit, this time between Ethan, Seamus and Ronald. This is why I'm simply advising against discounting the possibility rather than pursuing this as a full blown case.
But... goddamn. I just refreshed to see Peyton making a lot of the same groupings I am. Son of a bitch. A salesman hates being beaten to the punch. But yeah... Peyton's arguments are pretty much where I was going with this.
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Previously you claimed you came to Marbury as a journalist, due to visions of a lone killer haunting your dreams (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106102.html#msg106102). Now you're saying that WASN'T why you came to Marbury, you did so because it has been more of an abnormality than any other place on Earth (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106390.html#msg106390). Normally I'd write this off as "oh, lying flavor to cover a role."
Except, you had previously used that AS PART OF YOUR ATTEMPT TO PUSH A DAY 3 SERIAL KILLER TRAIN ON ME. In LYLO.
"The serial killer story, like all good tabloids, was based around the truth. I really have been seeing a man in my dreams, prowling around and producing a notable imbalance in the Wheel, but I had to find a fitting way to explain it without revealing the whole necromancer thing. 'specially after Hellsnake, who after his OWN reviver claim had me torn over whether he was lying scum or whether this setup is just completely insane.
Guess it's the latter now.
As for Hargreaves outing your role? What did you have to gain from hiding it at this point? If you hadn't come in and said "BTW I can't do this anymore," you might have sucked a nightkill from panicked Scum/SK, perhaps saving one of our confirmed Townies or a role that still functioned.
"Besides the hope that I could claim ownership of the resurrection at lylo, get myself confirmed and make finding scum a lot easier?
The case on you was half for the sake of completion, and half to blow off steam at the fact the guy I wanted to lynch today is apparently dying anyway.
I'm still waiting for O'Malley to speak up. I'm thinking we're too caught up in roles and scumminess to see that scum could well be hiding in the background and letting us trip ourselves up."
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Ronald Dale;
Chinese and broken English being completely flavour. Is stretch to suggest flavour is anything to do with the game.
Ugh, although I think Greaves' play is absolute rubbish and would very much want to lynch him over it... if yesterday was potential LYLO, reviving scum should've brought today either into game end or definite LYLO. Although grah your play is scummy and I don't know what to think of the way it was 'revealed'.
I don't get why people are all, "IF Peyton's slowkill is true", because we've seen it happen twice before now and I don't think it's too crazy to presume a slowkill that acted twice in a row can't act thrice in a row. I also can't find fault in Peyton's play at all.
Geh, I'm inclined to believe Greaves for now, but clearing him solely on his role and not his play feels incredibly hrghgh-worthy to me.
I'll probably switch my vote later to Sopko, but I'm re-reading Excal now, too. Don't agree with the people who think Sopko looks good because honestly, he's been way too passive and careful during LYLO, not committing to anything and not even steering discussion in a good direction.
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Wait, I take that back, Kolmogorov is a Miller according to Hargreaves, so he CAN'T be Scum if Hargreaves is telling the truth. Flipping either Kolmogorov or Greaves will tell us Hargreaves's alignment, Kolmogorov certainly, Greaves almost certainly.
There might theoretically be scum with the power to return false results to rolecops (if any even exist), and that may include (fake) Miller; but they wouldn't actually be a Miller, and wouldn't be informed of anything special if targeted by Chad's power.
I don't think it's likely, but it is possible.
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Also, I disagree with taking Hargreaves off the table. His claim proves that he is very likely a rolecop, but that's not enough to clear his alignment.
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Still don't have much time on my hands, and it will be like this until Saturday, most likely. Might be able to follow up with a proper (re)read and thoughts later this evening, else I really ought to have the time to catch up in about 24 hours from now.
Personally, I would have been willing to believe that scum miller would be a perfectly sensible role to exist given the set up, but if the mod will insist it doesn't exist then great, there goes the last thread of doubt on Jack.
Peyton I never had a problem with barring the tl;dr-scapades. Never thought his role was overpowered, especially once the slow-kill came up scum.
Nathan I'm willing to clear all bar a huge gambit involving him and Samuel, and even then that would be a horribly unnecessary risk. A scum reviver would have been so much better off raising Ethan to waste town an extra day, or otherwise just not raising anyone, either of which he could have gotten away with unless he was expecting to get hit by a rolecop or similar. This assumes no counter-claim, but go figure no. Not completely convinced, though.
But yes, there are now enough details on the board to confirm that townSamuel => townNikolai.
Peyton: so far as your plans go, I'm certainly far, far more interested in the other four than from picking from within the three. I'd actually forgotten about Seamus, who had been shooting up the list as I was turning in my grave.
I'm also wondering about this weird paired powers thing that's emerging. Revivers and rolecops, and possibly even doctors, cops, millers and bulletproofs. As much as everything that's happened as shrieked to keep me away from set up meta.
Anyway.
The night 2 action. That's the important part. Go figure I don't have a night 3 action to report about.
The core of it first: Samuel knows scum's secret, one way or another.
Which would of course work out if he is scum, hence my asking for his flavour in a way that implied I knew something about his flavour and he'd have to tell the truth of it even if he is scum. I don't think he is (if he is, scum's gambit has been so heavily pushed towards making him untouchable, and risking it failing so badly, especially if anything happens to Nikolai, say, even a rolecop or similar), and in which case I believe he doesn't inherently know that he knows the secret, but better safe than sorry. I haven't digested his story well enough to think about it, but I'm guessing the monster in a chapel thing could be it? I'd certainly expect it to be the confession of one of the people along the way or the like.
Not that I'm sure how much use it can be even if we can extract it. Likewise still don't know what the information from the first night was supposed to mean, other than that 'inside' clearly was intended as number of scum. Millers seems less likely now, and it looks rather unlikely to mean ITP on top.
My position is still pretty ragged given that I still have lots of reading to do, but you'll forgive me for playing to my own pace when I'm stretched for time and confirmed town. I'd mostly be down for voting Kyle or Seamus at the moment, so you know, but will at least have the grace of getting myself back up to speed before accusing them of days past. As much as Kyle has already confused me today by writing himself into a trap, which I'm rarely able to reconcile as being scum.
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Blarg, hate this stage of the game. No real idea of who's who, leading to no real ability to work out a proper post, so I'm just going to force this and hope it works.
In general terms, I'm hard pressed to disagree with what Peyton had to say. The people who are cleared are cleared. And while he isn't quite cleared to me, I'm not about to challenge his cry of slowkill, meaning unless someone is holding back on something it's pointless to hold back on, he's it. However, I'm not sold on the solid acceptance of the trio. My reasoning is as such. I know my alignment, leaving three other people in the crosshairs. And... honestly, given the interaction between Hayles and Dale I'm thinking they're not two scum together. Dynamic between them isn't quite right. This leaves Martin and the salesman. Both of whom I'm perfectly happy with going for.
But the pLYLO shows perfect numbers for four scum, not three. Which means that one of the three in that trio has to be scum. Honestly, Nikolai could just be lucky enough to be some kind of rolecop godfather. Though it could also be a scum gambit, which it would have to be for either of the other two where it could just be a Scum Reviver or Scum Rolecop putting their hand out there for Town in order to blend in. Hargreaves I'm especially worried about since there a Scum gambit makes an odd amount of sense. With everything that's already come out, adding more to the pile just makes it that much easier to convince Town to let out the rest of the setup and save him the work while at the same time giving him credit.
Of the people who are currently getting scrutiny, I'm heavily in favour of Kyle. Dale, I've generally found to make sense, and after his exchanges with Hayles I put him above the trio. And Martin... while I was critical of him, his posts in the time since my last serious post have all been solid stuff. More so than Nikolai's been pulling out, which has oddly swapped my views on them.
So... if I had to post a suspicion list, right now it'd be....
Handley > Hargreaves > Nikolai = Grave = Martins > Dale > Peyton > Town
And with that, might as well vote.
##Vote: Kyle Handley
Also, a final note for Peyton. While I did say I would be around for one of those day ends, if you take a look at Jack's post right after that, you'll note that I was horribly off on when day end was, and was expecting to be back after day ended.
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Correction on my previous post. Seamus has not spoken up today at all either, which is very suspicious given the case on him. So lurk lurk on Nikolai AGAIN and now Seamus.
Something I noticed on a re-read of Seamus is this post: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105152.html#msg105152
He calls out Ethan/Ronald Day 2 as being a possible scum gambit... no offense, but who the heck saw that? This seems like a call of too much information to me. I can't see how anyone would make this connection AT THAT JUNCTURE. After the flip? Yes. Day 3 when the train was running? Sure. Day 2? Pretty suspicious, given the rest of Seamus' behavior. I'm actually more inclined to believe the whole Ethan/Ronald/Seamus gambit I mentioned in my previous post, as doing it with 4 scum alive is more likely than Sam trying to pull something with only the three alive. Wouldn't you know it too? Both Ronald and Seamus are in that 4 person grouping. If Seamus continues to not post, he's the only person out of the 4 that I'd advocate lynching today. There's still a chance Ronald is innocent in this, as if Seamus is scum, then Ronald may just be the victim of getting tied to scum by proxy, but I'm leaning the scum gambit at this point.
If anyone out of the 3, I'd say Nikolai. Yes, it doesn't give us as much information as Sam would, but... scummy play is scummy play. What new stuff if there even to SAY about Nikolai of the "Haven't bothered to post yet today"?
To Ronald: First you call me too aggressively scummy today here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106383.html#msg106383) due to evening out the trains yesterday. Now I was too passive and careful during LYLO? Which is it? These things contradict themselves.
GODDAMNIT Ninja'd by Seamus. Oh well. Nothing to change really...
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Oh, if it's not been completely accepted here yet, then yes, there are pretty much definitely three more scum to find, for a total of four. I'd worked out from the sidelines that it'd be game over from 11 people if you lynched the reviver (very specifically, so no one would be revived that night), and the fast kill and slow kill both took out townies, leaving 4:4 left for a scum win. It's no longer LYLO of any form, which makes sense given that a mislynch plus two townie deaths at night still only puts it at 4:3. Scum would need way too much power to have potential LYLO yesterday with only three.
Doesn't quite clear Nathan on its own, as the other way to simulate no townie revival would be with a scum reviver (and any mislynch), but I just don't get the angle at all.
The big issue is that the game does seem to be wrapped up in a pretty ribbon - four lynches left in the game for four obvious people. Even more so when people inside of the box agree with this. So yeah, of course I start by trying to unwrap that. I'm still getting to grips with playing with holes in the box, but I keep on running into issues with scumSamuel (largely instrumental in most theories outside of the box) - it involves scum gambits that are horribly paced, horribly weighted and massively flawed, at least without knowledge of the game set up. It's like sure, maybe lots of the first level problems I can put my finger on (like, I don't think Samuel's been playing scummily, and was instrumental in getting Ethan lynched yesterday) can be explained by bussing, trade offs or generally playing a long-term gambit on Samuel (a relative newcomer at that - even if he's the godfather I'd have trouble believing a scum team strategy that involves him being alone and perfecting the end game) making it to the end, but it still only works assuming a long list of powers known and unknown don't screw them over in the meantime.
I'm pretty sure there are people in the box who need frying. I'm just not certain about that ribbon.
As townSamuel => townNikolai, we also have scumNikolai => scumSamuel. There is, I believe, no point in lynching Nikolai ahead of Samuel. If anyone is absolutely sure of Nikolai, then they need to convince themselves of Samuel as well and if anyone gets that far, then definitely vote Samuel over Nikolai. It is a strictly superior move, short of something crazy like weird role concerns. Not that I'm personally advocating voting Samuel, but voting for Nikolai here is a waste of time. Ignore that, Martin's mod quote from hours ago reminds me that there is a possibility for {townSamuel, scumNikolai} that renders this faulty. I'd say the situation is contrived, but then so goes a lot of the set up, and passing off as fake miller to scans in this game would be useful enough that I can't disregard it at a game build level.
Oh, and whatever has happened to the fast kill? I still haven't read the posts in full yet, but I didn't think I saw anyone claim to have taken that bullet for last night.
Yeah, guess it'll be tomorrow evening where I get to actually be useful, rather than just this faff without an actual read.
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Mo Bike: I'll have another look and if anything pops out I'll mention it, but there's not a lot more to say; no detailed confessions and certainly nothing that obviously stands out as the scum secret. As regards the monster, I didn't get too close a look at whatever it was, it was actually in the basement of the chapel, but there were lots of tentacles - and then afterwards, a lot of ichor, that burned unholy quick. The priest, or whatever looked like the priest (not that there was anything in the flavour to suggest he wasn't a normal human, but who knows; I burnt the place down around both their remains) had been keeping it there, it seemed, feeding it on the wounded and orphans given into his care. ((The situation reminds me of nothing so much as a certain oriental tale of those who sought the holy grail, but in that case it would've been Hadley's nemesis I'd expect to find there, not this... thing)). Maybe the scum are raising something similar here, but I've no idea what that would mean mechanically or how knowing it would help us.
Time for a proper look; apologies that I'm repeating things already said. Bike is absolutely cleared, and Daniels, Kolmogorov and Greaves are as good as (at least as far as I'm concerned), and in the unlikely event that Hadley is lying we can afford to spend today looking elsewhere for the rest of the scum and string him up tomorrow.
Which leaves me looking at O'Malley, Dale, Handley and Andrews.
First, Dale. In this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106148.html#msg106148), he calls Hayles on an "offhand comment", and mentioning him "so he can jump on me if there's a case to be made" - and then proceeds to do much the same himself at the end of the post, with a one-line mention of Greaves. Minor, but odd. I give him a little credit for finding the cast-iron confirmation that Hayles was lying; even though anyone could've done that, it helps town. Some weird things tacked on the ends of his posts that might be breadcrumbs in which case whatever or might just be random flavour, in which case they're not interfering with his actual posts. All in all I feel strangely non-suspicious of him; he's been flying pretty low, but nothing in his posts has smelt scummy to me. Which is no guarantee, but when each of the other three has felt wrong in their own way, I don't think I can support a lynch of him today.
The case against Andrews is simple enough; ultra lurking. But I think he's actually contributed a decent amount of insight in the last day or so; e.g. this attack on greaves (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106103.html#msg106103) is correct, if easy. Point about scum also wanting to kill Pietro (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106424.html#msg106424) is original, and his reasoning here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106456.html#msg106456) is correct; whatever you think of me it makes no sense to go after Kolgomorov or Greaves today, because if they were scum then I would have to be too, but the reverse doesn't hold. I think he may actually have made more of a contribution than O'Malley or even Handley.
Handley looks worse on a reread. His case on Andrews (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105992.html#msg105992) is at best a playstyle difference and at worst getting into misrepresentation. His vote (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106150.html#msg106150) comes at the worst possible time, and now I see he doesn't even mention the day's big case, instead talking about... three guys who it emerges are all town, not that I can fault him for being on Greaves. Today's first post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106366.html#msg106366) is all roles, and the followup (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106427.html#msg106427) is delayed longer than he seemed to imply it'd be (and much as I hate to use this as an argument, he misreasons a clear of me (see Andrews). I was about to give him credit for solid reasoning in his most recent post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106470.html#msg106470), and then I see that he STILL WANTS TO LYNCH NIKOLAI ARRGH.
O'Malley, meanwhile, has been a ghost. Day 3 he was on Hayles early and clearing Greaves at the same time. Which I would say was town, but, frankly, Greaves looked pretty bad. Couple that with the premature assumption that the slowkill was scum and I'm starting to see Handley's case of knowing a little too much. And wait, now he's completely reversed his position on Hayles/Dale, going from thinking they were a scumpair on day 2 to using their interactions to clear Dale now? What?
I think that does it for me. Handley has given us a lot of bad, but also a decent amount of good; O'Malley has given a little bad and a whole lot of nothing. (Of course, odds are they're both scum, but that's a lazy way out). ##Vote: Seamus O'Malley, and I can't see myself voting for anyone outside of those two barring major revelations.
I guess O'Malley's right about one thing: with three scum among four possibilities, it's time to start thinking about possible teams, but that would need an even bigger reread and I've already spent literally all evening on this post. Bike ninja unread.
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Ronald Dale;
Sopley: You were too passive. What I posted earlier is still holding against you your passive attitude until you voted Kolmogorov when a proven scumtrain is the other alternative. Before that you only voiced suspicion, said you needed more than usual to vote and... proceeded to do absolutely nothing until voting Kolmogorov insofar as getting involved and, y'know, steering the lynch any direction.
Bike: The fastkill has indeed not been claimed today. My personal feelings on the Greaves-Hargreaves events are mixed and conflicted. It just feels a little... too coincidental that Hargreaves scanned Greaves on the night of nights that revival happened. Given that Hellsnake was given a conditional time for his revival I wonder if Greaves' suffered the same, or that his only penalty is "You can't protect someone" with what sounds like a useless Doctor role...
Which is also fishy: why does Hargreaves refuse to divulge full information on Nikolai, but is perfectly happy outing a Doctor assuming that those Doctor powers would just be useless based on his own powers.
... ESPECIALLY because of this flip:
Chad Hutchins, Town Squeaky-Clean Doctor, went crazy and disappeared! (Can protect one person a night from normal nightkills. Can protect self only once ever. Returns just 'doctor' to rolecops. Unknown to self, always returns a sanity-independent and mod-guaranteed town to cop investigations due to trustworthy All-American nature. Doctor targets also lose Miller status permanently.)
Can protect one person a night from normal nightkills. Can protect self only once ever. Returns just 'doctor' to rolecops.
Can protect one person a night from normal nightkills. Even knowing this, can he really justify outing Greaves the way he has?
Ah, Hargreaves himself pre-empts me. Explain yourself please.
-
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [2]: Nathan Greaves, Sam Hargreaves
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [1]: Seamus (Excal)
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in ~43 hours.
-
Handley looks worse on a reread. His case on Andrews (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105992.html#msg105992) is at best a playstyle difference and at worst getting into misrepresentation. His vote (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106150.html#msg106150) comes at the worst possible time, and now I see he doesn't even mention the day's big case, instead talking about... three guys who it emerges are all town, not that I can fault him for being on Greaves. Today's first post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106366.html#msg106366) is all roles, and the followup (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106427.html#msg106427) is delayed longer than he seemed to imply it'd be (and much as I hate to use this as an argument, he misreasons a clear of me (see Andrews). I was about to give him credit for solid reasoning in his most recent post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106470.html#msg106470), and then I see that he STILL WANTS TO LYNCH NIKOLAI ARRGH.
Multiple people have broken it down to the group of 3 involving you and the group of 4 (me, Seamus, Martin, Ronald). Maybe Ronald is right and I am being too cautious, but you yourself say that I'm misreasoning into clearing you, so why is at least holding a shred of doubt on Nikolai still that bad? Where is he? He has your clear, yes, but what about his behavior backs up your claim? He's below Seamus at this point, but there comes a point where you still have to question it. Maybe not now, but possibly sometime in the future. Also, if you read the post again, I say that there are reasons people are saying they are off the table and here's why, not "ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE UNTOUCHABLE! PERIOD!". It was more meant as a summation than a definitive statement. Why call me out and not Peyton for it?
But you're right. The more I think about it the less and less doubt I can cast on you at this point. There isn't enough evidence to reconcile that it's all some insane gambit for all involved, whereas Seamus at least has a strong case against him.
##Vote: Seamus O'Mexcally
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Just posting to say O'Malley's done nothing in particular to convince me to move my vote. Can't say much has emerged today to convince me to shift on any of my suspicions, except for Bike's little tidbit about Hargreaves. Still not enough to get me to class him as being scummier than O'Malley, though.
-
/me takes a deep drink.
Chad, Chad, Chad. What did I tell you? What did I tell you?
/me snorts, sighs, and sets down the bottle. "You should have stopped lookin' into what your sumbitch father done... told him nothin' good could have come of it."
Sorry, folks, I's been a bit silent. Chad's death's weighin' on me pretty hard. ((Reality: I have been too tired to deal with Mafia until this evening.)) But... now's not the time fer it, is it?
I been mullin' it over, and I done think Hargreaves is a pretty solid candidate fer town. I have very few issues with his play, and he comes off especially townie in light of his early day 3 play. I was a little bit wary of him not considering the possibility of scum Nikolai, but given what he knows of ol' Nik it makes a bit more sense t' me. Nah, I don't agree with a lot of his judgments (namely trusting Nikolai and Greaves), but fer those of yew questionin' why he done outed Greaves: if he hadn't, he'd-a been a right fine candidate fer lynchin' come t'day, and frankly the outin' of our reviver comes with quite a bit more credibility comin' from an established rolecop ('specially by his day 3 dealin's with mehself). Seein' as noone else has claimed the reviver position, Greaves seems right towny t' me as well in light o' this. As far as I'm concerned at this point, both Hargreaves and Greaves are town er this is the trickiest dang gambit I done since Barnaby got shot and...
...
/me takes a good, long drink.
I done said too much. Let's... let's ferget about that, shan't we?
Anywho, given my suspicions o' Samuel bein' town, I'm pretty dang sure he and Greaves are clear to me. What I AIN'T sure o' is Nikolai bein' clear. Mayhaps I'm readin' too much into the "Hargreaves knows scum's secret" bit ol' Bike brought up, but could it 'a been a clue 'bout Nikolai's alignment? Maybe no, maybe yes. Given that Nik's full role ain't been divulged I don't think think it's wise to vote on 'im, 'specially since at the rate he's goin' he'll get struck down by the God all mighty... ((at least this time I don't think I've seen him active in chat?))
And regardless o' that I've always thought that when Nikolai opened his ruskie mouth he brought somethin' t' the table, so in light o' that, I'm goin' ta focus on the "other" group, as has been divided all in my mind, in Peyton's posts, and in Kyle's posts.
Martin Andrews. Problem with this feller is that he ain't got much sed, and what he's brought since bein' able to give his attention t' the game has been pretty good. One o' my criticisms is that, yes, while Pietro's kill looks far more towny in hind than it do in the fore, recall that Pietro had been implyin' that he weren't sane AND found that Hellsinki were scum (so naive's out, and the only possible sanities were insane or paranoid. After Hellsnake claimed Miller... well, scum KNEW Hellsnake were town, so they knew he had no dang reason at all to claim Miller 'less he was. They also KNEW Pietro were town, so the obvious scum deduction was that Pietro was Paranoid. So scum killin' Pietro don't make much sense t' me. Again, I ain't positive on this, but I'm pretty sure the instant kill comes from a town-friendly role. Er at least a role that were town-friendly at the time 'cuz it done benefitted them ((I don't really know Mafia 3rd party roles, so yeah.)) Still, this is such a thing that don't strike me as scummy
Aside from that... we got...
Kyle "Sopko" Handley.
Ronald "Bardiche" Dale.
And finally, Seamus "Excal" O'Malley.
((I'm gonna read through these folks soon. I'm tired right now, but might be reading Mafia anyway, so if I am I'll do those one of 3. I don't work 'til the afternoon tomorrow, and though I've got intern stuff and homework to do I'll probably be able to read through these 3 before deadline. I'm not putting a vote down yet because though I'm pretty sure it'll be on one of them (probably Kyle or Seamus), this will force me to check back up on the topic before deadline at the very least.
Oh, yeah, re: Excal: What 4 scum are left? If you'll recall, we got rid of Ethan Hayles quite handily already. So, 4 scum, minus one already = 3 scum left. That doesn't necessitate that one of the Hargreaves trio is scum to work out even if you're in the second grouping. Maybe I'm putting too much trust into that trio based on Hargreaves alone, but... I don't think so, at least at this juncture.
On a side note, if the remaining three scum are the ones who didn't use an alt. account for ease of last post review I will enjoy lynching every one of you sumbitches.))
-
This is a placeholder anti-modkill post while a literal wall containing analysis of the what is it now, multiple claims including that of another rolecop-like role, a resurrecting doctor, and confirmed-townie-Bike come back from the dead holy shit this game just got downright bizarre.
-
Briefly before work
Dale: Normal nightkills, i.e. the town-aligned one, not slowkills, i.e. the scum one. At least that's the way I read it.
Even for this game, two doctors who are actually effective seems outright crazy; four protective roles that don't do a blind bit of good fits a lot better, just like how it seems we have all these millers and no actual cops.
Handley: I'm paying more attention to you than to Peyton. Your clear of me is misreasoned because as Andrews said, even if you do trust Nikolai and Greaves all I've proven is that I'm a rolecop, not that I'm town. Keeping some suspicion of Nikolai yes, but there's no sense at all going after him today; if you think he's scum either you think I'm lying in which case you should be on me, or he's got some kind of crazy godfather role that returns miller to rolecops when the mod has explicitly said there's no such thing as a scum miller, in which case frankly you should be on SnowFire.
-
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [3]: Nathan Greaves, Sam Hargreaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko)
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [1]: Seamus (Excal)
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in ~25 hours.
-
Jack: Hm. I didn't think of it like that, but as I recall Pietro only said he might not be sane. Leaving a town cop around to investigate is a pretty huge risk for scum to take, even if he has a higher-than-usual chance of craziness. Not to mention that he might have had a variant role! (Wokka wokka wokka! I'm here all week. Tip your waitress.)
Anyway, time to get down to brass tacks. I think we all know how I feel about Kyle at this point. what we, including I, don't know is how I feel about Excal O'Irishguy over there, because I haven't looked too hard at him all game. Let's fix that.
Day 1: He dismisses the case on Tyrone with some rather odd reasoning:
As for Callahan. He is oddly stubborn about his attack. But I'm not sure if I see that as a scum trait or not. I do find his own single-mindedness to be worrying though. Especially the way he portrays the way the day's gone as a 1v1 between him and Moses, when it's actually him railing at Moses (even when he tries to get away, it's all centred around him) whereas Moses has been keeping his attention on a lot of different things. So that chracterization as a 1v1 really does feel wrong. Especially since there's been times when someone else might have come close to starting a train of their own.
I guess the main reason why I don't feel strongly towards Callahan is because outside of that one post, he hasn't been trying to start anything on someone besides Moses.
So Callahan's single-mindedness is worrying, but it's tempered by the fact that he's been single-mindedly focusing on Moses without floating any other cases, which makes him look less scummy. Okay, that makes perfect--what?
He goes on to vote Pietro, a decision for which I cannot fault anyone.
Day 2: Another vote on Pietro, and then a whole lot of noncommittal uselessness on everybody else. Mild prods for clarification directed at a few people, never getting harsh enough to actually call one suspicious, and a whole lot of maybe-this-is-scummy-but-who-knows about Ronald. Then the switch to Hellsnake, and that's...a bit loopy.
Specifically, the rolefish. The way it played out just screamed I want an excuse to claim miller when he told the whole story. And while I could buy it when he first made it (Bike made it sound like the Mistaken Town option simply wasn't, so he's either Town about to die, or lying scum, and both of those you want to get as much info out of as possible, if only so it either doesn't die with 'em, or so it hold's 'em tight so they can't change their tale later), he apparently didn't believe Bike was dying when he asked. And now we've got Payton saying he's got reason to think Bike's not dying at all. So... yeah. Strike the first.
Not to mention, I think Bike's one of the people I'm willing to trust. Which means that if this story of his does refer to non-town and millers, then we've got one too many. And if that's true, then while I do have a bone or two to pick with Daniels, it's nothing compared to what I've got on you.
I can't make hide nor hair out of the reasoning behind Hellsnake's questioning being scummy. I really just can't. He even accepts that counting miller claims and comparing them to Bike's info might be a good strategy, while simultaneously attacking the guy who first floated that idea...for floating that idea. Be...cause Hellsnake apparently wasn't convinced that Bike was dying, so it becomes scummy to try to figure out what his night-action puzzle means? Is that the logic? This just makes my head hurt.
Day three. He again opens by throwing a bunch of arguments at the wall. He uses much more aggressive phrasing here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105639.html#msg105639) than he did on Day 2, but it strikes me as a similar tactic. Goes on to declare BardDale devoid of scummitude, and gripes about how the role setup makes no sense (AGREED!).
Then he switches to Hayles, for...wait, what?
Hayles - Still first in my mind for what I've said before. I definately think there's something to find between him and Ronald, and he's looking the worse of the two.
There's a nice little flip-flop. First he floats the idea of a Dale-Hayles scumteam, using this as the basis for his stated suspicions of Hayles. Then he says Dale looks fine to him after all. Now there's "Definitely" something between them? that doesn't sit right.
And now I have to run to cover a tennis match, so I'll post what I've got and come back to it when I can. Not sure when that will be - hopefully before the end of today (real-life day, not game day).
-
Okay, maybe as much as two hours to catch up to pace. I'll try and order everything, but mayhaps not.
I'm really having trouble not just succumbing to hubris and following the path of least resistance. It's just so easy to take Sam's plays as townie, and then any other holes can just be conveniently blamed on set up should they come up. Trouble is I shouldn't be relying on scum being so thoroughly caged. It makes the world of difference if we catch scum today or not, as drawing more information before LYLO really ties up the Sam+ scenario a lot tighter if we do, among other things.
Anyhow, here's a gambit I've been turning over in my head. May be good, may have holes in it. I'll at least put it on the table.
It doesn't take much mental legwork to work out that the fast killer is almost certainly amongst the same set of four people that are taking the most flak today. Maybe you just haven't thought about it before. How certain are we of the fast kill being !scum? I'm strongly inclined to it given the 11:4 start (four scum is over the odds for a game of fifteen already, giving them a second kill would be silly), and the Pietro attack removes the remaining reasonable doubts that maybe they'd be allowed it because it's massively nerfed by all of the bulletproofs and doctors. I also think it would be massively frustrating role to play if it's an ITP Serial Killer, given how little it would be able to play properly given all of the nerfing, so I'm happier than others to disregard it as a strong possibility. Even some sort of ITP Serial Killer Survivor theory doesn't stand up given they could have just backed scum to an easy win.
My proposed gambit is for the fast killer to claim now.
Hear me out.
The exact mechanism for this gambit, if accepted, would be for the three who aren't the fast killer to admit to not being the fast killer, probably in any order. This would be in case the fast killer has a drawback - say, only two shots - that scum could safely counter-claim against. After the fast killer then claims, we've basically narrowed the possibilities further, and definitely then have a night phase in which to check the claim out. If the fast kill is scum then they won't want to claim given how easily and immediately it will tie them down. If the fast kill is town then scum will not want to counter claim as if they do then we just leave them both alive and let the real one kill the fake one overnight (although, really, if you're the fast killer and town then please make things easier for us and don't claim until the other three have anti-claimed, given the aforementioned possibilities).
But wait, I hear you cry, if we out the fast killer then scum will just get him next! Well. For one thing, Ethan's death didn't speed their kill up at all, so the fast killer'd be dead at best at the end of night 5. Scum have already got two confirmed townies to deal with, so frankly them having an extra 'must kill' target doesn't really shake our boat much. Also, considering our assumed position of 7:3, the fast kill's only got one guaranteed use left for us, so two nights would already be more than enough, even assuming an unfortunate bulletproof hit on the first attempt. It'd buy us more time if it does hit scum, but then if we do hit scum with it then we're already cruising to a win anyway.
Also, given day 3 was potential LYLO I really don't believe the fast killer is out of shots, so I want him made accountable, so he does then follow the script one way or another. Not that anyone should direct the kill in any way whatsoever, of course.
Coming sort of full circle, I want to catch scum today so tomorrow isn't LYLO either. Adding the fast kill tonight to our lynch, that gives us two shots at achieving this. This could mostly still happen without the fast killer revealing themselves, but this method reduces the possibilities in general, and stops the possibility of losing the fast killer in the meantime.
Thoughts?
So far as I see it the worst that can happen is for the fast kill to be scum's, they just plain don't claim it. No loss. Even if it was Ethan's (except no, really don't believe that). No sign of any roleblocking or power redirecting or any of that sort of crap that would have stopped me from suggesting this gambit. Entirely willing to believe that there's something horribly wrong with it that I just haven't seen, though.
Recommend a speedy turn around on it either way, though, given I want it done and dusted by the end of today, and don't want it to be a mess at day's end. Would prefer the three of the four who aren't the fast killer to be anti-claiming with more than 12 hours left.
Speaking of which, except for a check up in a few hours I won't really be back before the day ends. I'll do what I can to get on in approximately 17 hours from now, but it will be just to get my vote down, pretty much. Go figure I've managed to waste all of my promised free time thinking through and typing up this stupid gambit and still haven't actually read up on people. I've got just about enough time to read through a chunk, but no more to actually comment on anything.
-
Random minor side note that doesn't really matter: the slow kill can't suddenly have become fast, else we'd be in potential LYLO now. Lynch + fast kill + night 3 slow kill + night 4 new and improved faster slow kill all on townies would see tomorrow as a 3:3 scum victory. Only exception to that would be if Peyton's lying about being slow killed, but no, I don't believe that for a second.
-
Not a whole lot been said today. I'll stick my head in tomorrow, maybe before work/at lunch and certainly a couple of hours before the deadline, but I won't have time for a full post.
Nikolai's placeholder has been standing there getting on for 16 hours, which pisses me off, but facts are facts.
Bike: Not that I think this is what's happening, but do we have solid confirmation that we're not looking at two scum + third party SK? (To my mind that would make yesterday still pLYLO, in that once it was 4:3:1 we would not have been able to secure a lynch today without the cooperation of nontown, but I don't know what the strict definition is, if there even is one). In which case we don't want to be clearing the killer.
-
No, that's not a guaranteed loss. Unless the SK knows who the scum are, in that situation there's nothing stopping him from voting with town to lynch one, and then killing another at night, giving town a 3:1:1 ratio the next day. Small chance of that happening, probably, but as long as there's any chance at all of town surviving the game's not over.
-
Martin has the right of your case, Samuel, but the point is that we wouldn't be clearing the fast killer just for claiming. That's the whole point of doing it now and maximising the chances of hitting scum - it would give an extra night of actions to resolve loose ends without worrying about LYLO implications. It'd pin him down and presumably eventually clear him, but not just for claiming.
It's part of why I'd expect the fast killer not to bother claiming at all if non-town.
-
"Honestly, Bike, I'm pretty sure that if the fastkill was Town-aligned he'd have already claimed at Lylo. I really don't see your plan getting anywhere."
-
Potential LYLO is always shaky for role claims, especially when it's been stated that it's really on the far side of potential, especially when the fast killer would be fairly certain that he could always ensure one more day for town simply by not killing that night if everything else went tits up. I don't see everyone else falling over each other to claim yesterday. That's without considering the vulnerable position whoever it is was in, the fact that the prevailing winds yesterday were that the fast kill was scum, and the plausibility of a counter claim even if that was explained away.
So no, I'm unconvinced. I can't see what they'd have expected to gain by revealing then.
-
Re-read stuff. I'm tired, and at work on a break. Did most of the re-read earlier but I need to get a vote down soon. Dropping flavor etc etc.
Seamus I still have much the same opinion on as I did before; nothing's jumpin' out as outright scummy, aside from his jumpin' on Hellsnake right at the beginning and even then that's not that bad. Frankly still looks less scummy than Greaves, but I've been over why I've taken Greaves off the table.
Dale strikes me as pretty good. Correctly caught Ethan on his scumminess early, and I don't have too much of a reason to believe that this was an attempt at shipping so early on. However, initially on Day 3 he seems to have forgotten his case on Hayles, and focuses a lot of attention on Peyton. This doesn't worry me too much since he narrows back in on Hayles later, but it doesn't strike me as that good of play. I am also a little worried about exactly what his role PM says that causes him to believe that there's a godfather in the game, but that's the only other thing that's really brought up any warning flags. The broken English is a little annoying, though. >_>
Of the four in the not-Hargreaves camp, Kyle Handley looks scummiest of all. His first two days of play are lolwhat, and most of his day 3 play is analyzing who was on the first two trains (neverminding who was on the Pietro train), though he himself acknowledges that he would have been on both trains, had it not been for being "beaten to the punch" on the D1 hammer (even though I distinctly remember that going closer to deadline than I liked). Of the people I've been scrutinizing... well, he certainly looks scummiest.
##Vote: Kyle Handley.
Oh and Nikolai? You need to talk more. Christ.
From memory, and ignoring roles (going entirely off play), Kyle>Greaves>Seamus=Nikolai=Andrews=Peyton>Hargreaves=Dale, as far I can see. Taking into account the claimed rolemadness we've had so far, that bumps Greaves off. I'm not sure I'm comfortable lynching Seamus just yet but we'll see.
-
On the subject of the amount of scum, I'm willing to bet that the Davidson Report that Bike mentioned in Day 2 was telling the truth. 4 from the inside, 5-6 from the outside? Or something similar? It doesn't seem like a bold faced lie (emphasis on the bold), especially considering his guaranteed towniness. It does feel like there are third parties present, though I won't point fingers as of yet. Catching scum is more important. So yeah, we're dealing with 4 scum here (3 now).
I said it in the beginning of the day, but I'm still boldly behind the idea that scum only have the slowkill to work with. It just seems to make sense at this point. I'm torn on the idea that the finding of the fast killer is THAT important though, since I'm pretty sure they're not scum-aligned. But Bike's idea is at least sound in that it would be good to figure out who they are so that we can make a more informed decision. It only makes sense since I think that the fast killer is not scum aligned, so I'll at least say I am NOT the fast killer.
I'm still behind lynching Seamus, and curious to see what he has to say if and when he comes back. Nikolai talking about anything would also be fantastic.
-
Nikolai has been re-prodded, though thanks for posting to note your presence as due to the start-of-the-Day warning you would have been modkilled otherwise.
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [1]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [3]: Nathan Greaves, Sam Hargreaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko)
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [2]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in ~18 hours.
-
Ronald Dale;
The broken English is a little annoying, though. >_>
I want to flavour at least a little. :(
RE: Hargreaves, Greaves and Nikolai;
I'm content leaving them be. Hargreaves brings up a good enough argument to out Greaves' protective role, even though I don't particularly agree that was a very bright choice. Still, playstyle differences don't equate to scumminess.
RE: Seamus O'Excal;
To give some thought to Scum!Seamus as Sopley is suggesting:
I'm not fond of this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105152.html#msg105152) where he's spending the better part of his post criticising me and highlighting things I may be doing wrong, as well as linking me to Hayles.
Then here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105639.html#msg105639) he mentions Hayles as his #3 target for Day 2. I... somehow failed to infer that from his previous posts, and his eventual vote (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105898.html#msg105898) leaves little reasoning other than his earlier-linked post where he says there's little point in Hayles' arguments.
Seamus' biggest offence is that I'm not too fond of his continuous insistance that there's something between Hayles and me - definitely agree that it's downright odd how he so early in the game begins tying me to Hayles and pretending there is something big there. And while he made the first vote on Hayles on Day 3, his case was so unpronounced and unpersuasive that I'm not too sure how much credit he should be given for it.
Hrgh. I'm not entirely happy about Seamus. But I have stronger feelings with Sopko, so.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Kyle Handley
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Just a note: It was ~18 hours at 6PM. It is 10 PM now. That means only ~14 hours left in the day.
Considering the majority of us will sleep at some point, and the DL is more dead in the mornings than in the evenings, that means the deadline is much, much closer than advertised. So if the people who haven't voted (Nikolai, Andrews, Bike, and Peyton) or weighed in (Nikolai, Nikolai, Nikolai, and... Nikolai) would be so kind as to be around this evenin', it'd make an ol' boozehound mighty pleased.
I... should be around before deadline tomorrow morning, at least, unless I wake up late for work.
-
I just finished working for the day and my brain's in no condition to make a final choice. I will definitely be around tomorrow morning, though. Right now I'm leaning toward Seamus - while my gut says Kyle is scummier, my gut has a very bad track record at Mafia games, and Seamus has dropped more textbook scumtells (not keeping his suspicions straight, wishy-washiness, poor or convoluted logic to justify jumping off the lynch train of a doomed townie or jumping on the lynch train of a potent town power role).
-
Preliminary result that I have as of now is that Handley/Soppy is Scum - Bike is obviously Town, Greaves is Town unless someone else counterclaims the BikeRez, and I'm 99% certain that Hargreaves is Town, plus I'm about 90% certain that Peyton Hadley is Town. I am just cleaning up my post at this point, having to sift through twenty pages of this madness is really something else.
-
Fantastic. Seamus disappears after one post today amidst some rather solid accusations against him from multiple people. Please don't tell me you're going to take this lying down, are you town? CLASSIC SCUM LURKER STRATEGY. SERIOUSLY. HEIL RATHITLER. Nikolai still has yet to post anything substantive! Also fantastic! But on re-read I'm starting to lean more in the direction on believing Sam for now, so while Nikolai's behavior is UTTERLY FUCKING REPREHENSIBLE, against all my instincts, he'll have to get a pass for now. FOR NOW. The flip should help shed SOME light on this situation at least. Hope that post you're working on is worth it, Nikolai.
I'm setting my alarm for the morning. Seeing as how it's tied up for now, if I somehow miss it and I end up being the one on the chopping block, please don't hammer me until at least a half hour before deadline to give me a chance to speak up. It shouldn't come to this though.
-
Ronald Dale;
Around. Excal's profile shows he hasn't even shown up yesterday at all... hate to resort to those sort of things.
There are four votes unaccounted for what is this. ~6 hours left in the day?
-
No time to talk properly. Will probably phrase things badly.
Was leaning towards Seamus anyway, just annoying that I haven't made my positions clear. The votes inside the box tending towards Kyle also point me towards Seamus in response. Kyle has been horrible, but has done a few things that wurgle my trains of thought that would place him as scum. Bussing is inevitable in this position, but I sense the desire for scum to try and push this to LYLO tomorrow.
Weak response to gambit needs further pondering, but early take on it is that scum inside the box would want to play it very low profile so that the fast killer doesn't get to claim safely. Not sure about the ribbon yet, but more comfortable about gunning inside the box right now.
##Vote: Seamus
That's it from me for today. Day 5 will be better due to weekend, on the [relatively safe] assumption that I'll be alive for it. Expect Seamus to turn up in the dying hours and claim fast kill to cause panic. Would be annoying if he actually is, but too late for me now.
-
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [4]: Nathan Greaves, Sam Hargreaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Gershom Bike
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [3]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
No vote placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Martin Andrews, Peyton Hadley
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in ~5 hours at ~2:00 EDT.
-
Ugh morning. Gotta get to work soon.
Where the bloody hell is Nikolai. Fer that matter, where the bloody hell is Seamus. The more Seamus lurks the more suspicious he looks.
We still got 3 hours til deadline, but I gotta go in 40 minutes and we gotta lynch someone.
IF THINGS HAVE NOT DEVELOPED IN THE HOUR, I WILL SWITCH MY VOTE TO SEAMUS BEFORE I LEAVE FOR WORK JUST SO WE DON'T END THE DAY IN A NO-LYNCH.
-
Working;
We lynch the majority candidate at day's end, no? So no need to panic.
(Not that I don't think O'Malley deserves to die, but I don't want you using "avoiding no-lynch" as an excuse)
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/me goes back and reads the rules.
Oh, okay. Hey cool so I'm gonna leave my vote on Sopko in that case since I think he's scummier. Thanks for pointing that out.
-
Even less time. Definitely the last from me this day.
Having pangs over a potential {Ronald, Kyle, Martin} or {Samuel, Kyle, Nikolai} pairings that make me reconsider my vote, but more a warning that my vote will be on Kyle pretty much for sure tomorrow if we don't hit scum now. Nikolai acting so bloody scummily is the primary thing against me tying that ribbon.
-
I hate to agree with Kyle AGAIN, but Nikolai really needs to get his act together. He has one post saying "don't modkill me please" and promising a "literal wall" of analysis. What we get is three lines where he says Kyle is scum but gives no reasons, and he's been "cleaning up" his post for ten hours now. Deadline is in two and a half. Dammit, even I wasn't this bad, and I was fuckin' bad. We have the word of a quasi-confirmed, alignment-still-unconfirmed rolecop that Nikolai actually does return Miller to investigation, and the world of mod that returning miller to rolecops is not enough to guarantee town affiliation. You're gonna have to do better.
Anyway. Looking back at my thoughts yesterday, they still hold up now that I'm not sleep-deprived and crazy. Kyle's first two days of play are still crazy bad, but Seamus O'Excal's entire game is classically scummy.
##Vote Seamus (Excal)
L-1.
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Right, I must now depart; will probably be back not long after the start of next game-day. Not terribly fond of Soppy's emotionally charged ranting, but that against O'Malley's nothing is not even a contest.
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and the world of mod that returning miller to rolecops is not enough to guarantee town affiliation. You're gonna have to do better.
Can I get mod confirmation on this? It doesn't change my vote now, but will certainly change my approach to tonight and going forward... would make me feel silly about last night's post as well, but cest la vie...
But yeah. Around. Hoping Seamus and Nikolai come around to say something.
-
Shale, no need to vote me. Scum Miller is an OMGWTFBBQ role so if you're asking, yes, that's an illegal role. There might theoretically be scum with the power to return false results to rolecops (if any even exist), and that may include (fake) Miller; but they wouldn't actually be a Miller, and wouldn't be informed of anything special if targeted by Chad's power.
I'm not banking on it but it's an explicitly noted possibility.
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Ah. I remember that now. Only the first half registered, I guess.
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Ronald Dale;
Around. Don't think I'll switch. Sopko's really still worse for me with his contributions.
-
Votecount.
Nathan Greaves [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [5]: Nathan Greaves, Sam Hargreaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Gershom Bike, Martin Andrews
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [3]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
No vote placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Peyton Hadley
With 10 investigators, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 will end in 20 minutes at ~2:00 EDT.
EDIT: And that is deadline. Flip to follow.
-
"I'm really not sure what's going on around here anymore," Deputy Webster intoned, "but it's clear that someone's up to sum'thing. What did my poor dog Beano ever do to you?! I... I... well, let's see where we stand."
Nathan Greaves [ 0]: Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
Seamus (Excal) [5]: Nathan Greaves, Sam Hargreaves, Kyle Handley (Sopko), Gershom Bike, Martin Andrews
Kyle Handley (Sopko) [3]: Seamus (Excal), Jack Daniels, Ronald Dale (Bardiche)
No vote placed: Nikolai Kolmogorov, Peyton Hadley
---
The discussion was chaotic, the accusations wild, yet strangely quiet at times as well. The Russian mathematician Kolmogorov seemed lost in thought, forever adjusting his notes as he tried to "solve the equation" for what happened to the House of Hutchins. Peyton seemed distant and simultaneously exuberant yet depressed... perhaps a martyr personality that he'd taken on the burdens of saving Marbury? The journalist Greaves seemed prone to sudden personality swings between cheerful reporter, and alleged... er... is he claiming to be an ancient sorcerer? Surely some kind of ploy to fake out the credulous and sell papers. And has the vet Hargreaves admitted to once treating humans? All the trips to other towns for medical treatment he could have saved... not that townspeople complain about the fine animal services he's offered instead.
Eventually, the discussion turned to two suspects. "You! Salesman! I saw you peddling some product to the football team! Clearly it was some kind of dangerous performance-enhancing substance, and... and... it destroyed Chad's house after letting the football team win!" Seamus O'Malley, new stablemaster, was confident that this Handley fellow was up to no good, with his little "deals" and "cure-alls" he seemed to be selling.
Handley was nonplussed. "A purely innocent transaction, I can assure you. Chad wouldn't want me punished for helping the Ospreys out! And what does this have to do with the house? At least I am a salesman and make fair trades. You claimed to have stolen a holy relic from the Church! Well. I'll tell you something, I'm a merchant in information as well. You're no fallen priest. I checked with a Cardinal 'friend' I have, and you're still on the books as a member of the Inquisition! Why the lie?"
"...what? This... this is impossible! I'm innocent, just examine me! Er... wait, no, I'm suspicious if you examine me, because I'm an outlaw? I.. uh... ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς ἔλεγεν· πάτερ, ἄφες αὐτοῖς, οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν. διαμεριζόμενοι δὲ τὰ ἱμάτια αὐτοῦ ἔβαλον κλήρους." And then Seamus ran. Not very far, as he was soon tackled by the other townspeople, but it was a noble attempt.
The Russian Kolmogorov seemed to snap awake at that. "Uh... I think that's a line about "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do, from Luke 23? ... I'm a very skilled mathematician, it entails some knowledge of Greek as well."
Sheriff Hutchison wondered aloud if he wouldn't have to pay for Rev. Jones' services, and if O'Malley would be decent enough to serve as priest at his own execution. A search of O'Malley's belongings turned up the 'relic,' a fingerbone of... presumably some saint? Deputy Webster didn't find much else of interest. "Unfortunately I can't make heads or tails of his journal. Seems like it's in both Latin and in code. Must have been part of some secret society, I guess."
O'Malley administed the Last Rites to himself as best he could, and then was led off to the gallows. "I'm sorry I couldn't save the innocents of Marbury right now. I guess others will have to take up the mantle of purging the sorry and damned sorcerers that infest this place. But even if they don't... know that judgment awaits regardless. Just a little later."
Seamus O'Malley, Scum Docfather, was lynched! (Can protect one person a night from normal nightkills. If he protects himself, he additionally returns 'town' to sane cops and 'scum' to insane cops.)
--
It is now Night 4. You have 24 hours to get your orders in. If you are late with your orders, I'm going to be out most of Friday night, so Day 5 will have to start extra-late in that case.
-
The mood of Marbury momentarily brightened. Sure, there still wasn't any actual evidence that Father O'Malley had done anything, well, wrong, but hadn't he "confessed" anyway? And would a man of the cloth lie? Well... actually he already had lied, but he certainly wouldn't lie about wanting to purge Marbury of evil, right? But... just... who was evil here, anyway? It wasn't so clear anymore, so the best thing to do would clearly be to celebrate at Rosie's Country Inn with Pietro's last shipment and try and forget about such issues.
Salesman Kyle Handley was especially exuberant about his narrow escape from the noose. "I'm tellin' ya. That's me, for you. People are jealous, but I always pull through. Did I ever tell you the story about Bérangère, this beautiful French lady and an heir to a fortune? Oh, you should have seen the look on her father's face. I was never really in danger, anyway, I'm personal friends with the governor, who would have called out the National Guard to pardon me. Besides, nobody's been working harder than me to solve this case. With my skills it'll be over tomorrow. Just you wait."
The only thing to spoil the party was... Peyton Hadley, crashing in with what looked like a script in his hands?
"I present to you... Act II of The King in Yellow! It claimed the lives of all my friends from 2 years back- and now it shall claim the lives of the scoundrels who haunt Marbury, and who hunt us at this very moment! No more running from this day, we face it together and sink or sw-" and at this point Hadley was cut off by Jack Daniels, who had snuck across the room and punched Hadley in the jaw.
"Get a hold of yourself, man!" Daniels grabbed the script and dunked it into a nearby glass of health tonic, before reaching for a cigarette lighter which then failed to catch - too much water, too little alcohol. After the fight, it was clearly time to head home for everyone.
---
Handley, before retiring to his room at the Inn, strolled outside for a smoke, before seeing a familiar face.
"So what do you want at this late hour from me? Let me guess, here to see the merchant of information... wait... what's... that? Let's... let's just hold off now... a proposition, if you will? I've got friends... powerful friends... with money... secrets... we can... there can be a deal, right? There..."
...and then a scream, and the sound of someone running off.
---
There was much to do the next morning. Call other authorities, attempt to find where the late Mr. Handley's true place of residence was, deal with the ranting actor... well, at least the third problem was easily soluble. Dr. Gottlieb happened to be in town anyway to pick up supplies for the Sanitarium. He chuckled upon hearing of Peyton's strange behavior. "Mr. Hadley? Oh, don't worry, we.... specialize in such cases. Especially given this generous anonymous donation to pay for his care. He'll be fine, just fine. I expect he'll be a cheerful, productive member of society again in, oh, six months or so. Until that time, he won't trouble you at all! Ah, what a wonder it must be for you all to have a world-class asylum right next door."
Meanwhile, Deputy Webster found something familiar in Kyle Handley's rooms. "I thought these books looked awful familiar. Ain't these some of the books we found in Moses's home? Was this Mr. Handley a thief of information, and not just a merchant of one? ...don't know if it helped him any, tho'. These books must be cursed to have two tragic deaths so close to one another. Looks like he stole some books from both Hayles and Hutchins, too. The audacity to steal from the dead, I swear."
Sheriff Hutchison nodded. "A damn shame. I suppose we could return at least Moses' books to his next of kin... but would he really want cursed books? A few of these, like, this book labeled Qanoon-e-Islam, say "Property of Miskatonic University." I say we send 'em back to them, real quiet and all, and don't mention the curse. Let 'em molder in some library harmlessly. What Gershom doesn't know can't hurt him."
Deputy Webster nodded.
Peyton Hadley, Town One-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard, went crazy and was committed! (Can protect one person a night from normal nightkills. The first nightkill attempt against him in the game is nullified.)
Kyle Handley, Town Megalomanaic, was murdered! (Delusions of grandeur. Returns aspiration of being a "Vigilante Supercop Doctor Bulletproof Triplevoter (???)" to rolecops, with (???) warning. Starts vanilla, but actual power is to read books and show how much better he is at various roles after the previous occupant is dead. At time of death, had inherited Moses Bike's Archivist ability, a one-shot prevent-sanity-kill ability from Ethan Hayles' role if reversed, and a one-shot Doctor ability from Chad Hutchins.)
---
It is now Day 5 - October 30, 1928. It is Potential LYLO, but a potential LYLO that favors town. It is quite likely that town will make it to Day 6 even in the event of a mislynch. There is no deadline, but as with Day 3, I will set a soft deadline of 5 days - 120 hours. With 7 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch.
Also. In administrative notes. Nikolai, Nikolai, Nikolai. I've already chatted with you in IRC about this, but you posted quite literally the bare minimum amount to avoid a modkill on Day 4. If this starts to recur on Day 5 you will be modkilled. Your posts do not have to be long, but including who you think is town, who you think is scum, and how you plan to vote should be sufficient to stave off a modkill if you are direly pressed for time.
-
Well. On the one hand, that may have just saved us a mislynch. On the other hand, whoever our vig is needs to maybe get rid of that itch in his trigger finger, because I'm not fond of all this LYLO'ing going around.
Anyway. Potential suspects are now EVERYONE who is not confirmed town. There are two scum left (LYLO at seven people with only one scum? I defy you to make that math work), and I know I'm town, which means at least one of the people in the rolecopped trio of Nathan, Samuel and Nikolai is scum. I don't think I have to point out which of that group looks the worst right now. Nikolai, get your ass in gear. NOW.
Not sure how much I'll be around this weekend; I have work tomorrow and family visiting on Sunday. Will endeavor to post as much as I can, and should have more time on Monday.
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Also, to be clear, I'm assuming that we have a vig (or serial killer) now, rather than a second scumkill, because of Excal's role. Granted there COULD be three nightkills, or it could be a head-fake on the mod's part (a doc role but nobody to protect from), but those seem like outright dickish moves to me.
-
I've been slow killed again. I guess scum are really scared of me for some reason. I know I'm confirmed townie and all this time, but I was vaguely expecting it to go Jack's way before me. Oh well. The flavour text was pretty hilarious this time, mostly for being mostly the same as the first time, and most of the rest of it acknowledging the similarity. I assume/hope Snowfire will be releasing all of the flavour text to us at the end of the game, as massive as that will be (my books alone will take up tons of space).
Again, I'd quite like to set up the fast killer to claim. Kyle's death doesn't actually imply quite as much as I'd like it to (notably it could be cunning due to leading into LYLO and forcing thinking outside the box now), but as Martin's already mentioned, Seamus's role basically seals the deal for me. The thing he's forgetting in this is that Seamus claimed miller - why the hell would he do that if he had any intention of protecting himself and risking flipping the wrong sanity to a cop? As I [at least believe I] have been saying, I was in full support of using the fast kill once more, due to it effectively giving us one more lynch. I'm sure that a town fast killer is perfectly aware of potential LYLO being dependent on him accidentally killing town tonight.
(I also have reason to believe that the fast killer isn't ITP due to balance issues and it probably being a tedious role to play, but I'm not going to force that argument)
Regarding Kyle. From his pleas towards the end of the day, it seems clear that he did have some information, but I should point out that my role as Archivist wasn't as good as it sounded: I got to choose from a selection of books, with differing results. Some would be useless (send me RP insane), some would give me information about people's dark secrets and only 'at least four' would result in information about the game. Although it was implied that you could kinda-sorta work out which was which, I got lucky, and it's entirely plausible that Kyle did not. I'm surprised he didn't consider the odds of him being fast killed, but what can you do.
Given I'm about to die and it can't affect anything, I can confirm that in this instance I'm vanilla, and have no new information since night 2. The flavour is that it's because my books were stolen/impounded, but I'm pretty sure this would have happened even if Kyle had died before my own initial demise. I imagine at least most of you will have guessed this already given the Hellmosquito's flip, but figured there was no point in volunteering this information in the hopes it might tip the balance on the scum kill, which it may have done.
Top thing that comes to mind is that Nikolai claimed to have scanned Kyle on night 2. How delightfully suspicious that looks now.
It also comes to mind that the 4 inside / 5/6 outside thing would still be resolved with millers if Nikolai is scum. The fact that he's been acting so damn suspicious from the start of the game throws him right to the top for me, even with it still being possible that the box could still be tied up neatly.
More in a bit.
-
((Hoo...))
That feller Handley turned out to be a right upstanding citizen, din't he. Moreover, he was right. The more I scum hunt the more I doubt my scum huntin' instincts...
That said,
##Vote:Nikolai Kolmorgovoblablablablh
I've consistently thought you've contributed well, but in light of recent events I'm none too sure that's a good thing. Mor'n that, you done said yew-er gon' contribute at some point an' never done it, same as Seamus. I'm none too sure I trust this line o' logic, but votin' you puts the pressure on yeh to speak at the very least.
I'm... I'm gonna have to reread these last 20 pages AGAIN, and even then I'm none too sure I'll come up with anythin' useful, but... shit, nothin' else is gonna bring us close to huntin' scum. An' I think the more townies get flipped, the more I can see patterns in how they act compared to how scum acts? Maybe so. We'll see.
Dimension McNinja'd by Bike. Not sure why he got slowkilled again, unless that "BIKE KNOW'S SCUM'S SECRET" carries more weight than I initially thought.
-
oh my god can I can't believe I just typed "knows" as "know's". bugs me so god damn much
-
Jack: I don't know scum's secret, I just know that Samuel knows it somehow.
Regarding the people left in the game:
I'm super duper cleared by about a million different ways now that the slow kill's hit me again.
I'm willing to lose the game if Jack is scum, given how the mod himself basically went out of his way to clear him. Maybe there's some retarded scum way around what's happened to simulate all of the effects, but if there is I'm first in queue to whine after the game ends. He could theoretically be ITP, but given his position and there being two scum left we really don't have the time to chase ITP unless they wave their hands at us. Also, even if he is ITP (I don't believe it) it doesn't matter too much, given that he's all but guaranteed to pick up the slow kill tomorrow and out of the picture anyway.
I'm actually fairly happy with Nathan. I bounced a bunch of ideas off the wall during the night phase, and came to the conclusion that two town revivers was actually about the right balance. The concern started that maybe if two revivers survived to night 3 then it might be too unbalanced in town's favour even with no scum dead by the end of day 2, but the conclusion is reached that the only purpose of two of them existing is to improve the odds of one them being alive by then. Their options for revival are limited to the day 1 and 2 lynches, any fast kills, and the one slow kill that's happened by that point. Exactly one of these is likely to be useful for town (and yet another point towards the fast kill being town), and that's without Nathan's claimed limitation of only being able to choose slow kill targets. So that works out. If instead one of the revivers is scum, then the expected net gain for town is negative, and that's in a position of town being down. So, uh, no. Not with four scum. Even assuming something crazy like scumNathan telling the truth about his restriction and was forced to revive the first scum kill, then I'm pretty sure they'd be using the first slow kill on rolefishing, given the whole 'come back as vanilla' thing. Also, with Samuel having rolecopped him, assuming scumNathan then you either have scumSamuel and/or two doctors on scum's side. I certainly don't believe in the latter, as, even ignoring any sort of potential balance concerns, I can't see docfather Seamus pulling the miller strategy with a secondary protective role around.
So no, given that no one counter claimed in the first instance, I would not advocate or support voting for Nathan unless there is major evidence to the contrary. I consider {Nathan, Samuel} to be the only scum team involving Nathan to be possible at all.
So, two out of {Ronald, Samuel, Nikolai, Martin}. All the easier if we push the fast kill claim through, you see? Counter claim from scum will fail from the real one killing the fake one overnight. Guess I would have been wrong about that yesterday.
As it stands, there's still the possibility of the innards of the box - {Ronald, Martin} being the remaining scum. It's kind of part of why I want the fast kill claimed all the more now. I definitely want the two of you (that's you, Martin and Ronald) to admit to not being the fast killer if you're not, and if you are to wait for the other to anti-claim first. Failure to do this within about 24 hours or so will result in me assuming you're scum. There's still the outside chance of the fast kill coming from outside the box, but I hope not. If it is, there's still no chance for scum inside the box to fake claim the kill after the other guy anti-claims due to the real fast killer then going lol no.
Assuming we do bust out of the box, it's all about Nikolai. Nikolai, who has played a scummy game among scummy games. Playing the exact same way that he's played scum forever, just extreme. Being scum also neatly resolving my night 1 information. Yeah.
I want on that train. L-2 right out of the gate whatever, I feel good enough about it.
##Vote: Nikolai Kolmogorov
Obviously don't put it up to L-1. I'm just being greedy and selfish here. I in particular want to open the box before being in any way committed to this, not to mention that everyone should be weighing in generally.
Hey guys watch me direct a night action, hell yeah: hey Mr. Fast Killer, whichever you might be, here are my thoughts, on the very early assumption that we end up lynching Nikolai today. If he's town, then obviously don't use the power (unless someone has counter-claimed you). If he's scum and does have some titbit in his role information about sending out fake results, then you probably still want to stay your hand, as killing removes a lynch from town. If he's scum and doesn't flip such information, then I think it's probably worth killing Samuel overnight. Odds are we win, and if not then it leaves us in a better shape for the final day - you'll have removed a lynch from town, but Samuel's would probably be inevitable and a 3:1 finale is more in our favour than 2:1. 2:1 would result in either the slow kill victim being casting vote, or scum fake claiming slow kill and the third person casting the deciding vote - pretty much the same but with trap potential. Scum can't fake claim slow kill in 3:1, as we either lynch scum and win or lynch the slow kill and end up in an additional day of 2:1 (due to no slow kill going off that night) with scum getting immediately lynched due to lying, thus 3:1 would be a slow kill claim guaranteed !scum, and give us better odds of picking out the scum from the remaining three.
Sure this directs a kill, but I'm only directing it in the case of there being exactly one scum left, who'll have his hands full acting out the slow kill. Unless gee, Samuel suddenly conveniently claims to be bulletproof too.
Pretty sure this only fails if the fast killer is scum, for which my answer to that is: no. It also has potential to fail if the fast kill is outside of the box, but resolving that the fast kill is inside the box is a pre-condition for my vote on Nikolai anyway.
Personally, I'd still wager on Samuel being town, but I'm still going to cover all the possibilities I can. I'd also then remind myself that at least a fair chunk of why I consider him to be town is due to him ferrying the votes on to Ethan in day 3 and related events, which fail if Nikolai is scum. In fact, if Nikolai is town then I'd just about wipe the odds of him being scum off the board and devote my legacy beyond the grave for the second time for the scum pair to be {Ronald, Martin}. Then again, this is part of why I very much expect Nikolai to be scum regardless of Samuel's alignment.
I want to wait for the fast kill gambit to go through before discussing the possibilities further. Combine that with the amount I've written already, and I'm going to stop here for now.
-
"Alright. We're basically down to me, Hargreaves, Dale, Kolmogorov, and Andrews.
The best clue we've got in terms of roles is Bike's 'Hargreaves knows scum's secret'. That could either be a cryptic way of saying Hargreaves is scum, or an even MORE cryptic way of saying that he's rolecopped scum. So in short, I'm willing to safely say that at least one of the Nikolai/Hargreaves pair is scum, maybe even both.
Of the two...? Hargreaves was contributing yesterday, and he was behind the right wagon. Nikolai...well, even the mod has pointed out he seems to be trying to post the smallest amount possible to avoid a modkill. All he has working in his favour right now is the fact he ran alongside Ethan Hayles on Day 3, but that late in with no scum deaths I suppose a gambit along those lines isn't entirely out of the idea. I'd probably drop a vote on Nikolai right now if it weren't for the fact that he's already at L-2.
I'll leave my comments on the whole fastkill situation until after Bike's finished his rolefishing expedition. Pun fully intended, you're very welcome."
-
Okay, sure. I am most definitely not the fast killer. I am, however, about to get ready for and then head out to work, so I don't have the time to post anything more substantial than that for a while.
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Ronald Dale;
Don't have a lotta time. I'm not a fast killer. Real post coming up later, running late.
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##Vote: Roland Dale
Dude, what the fuck?
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Ronald Dale;
OK, quick one still, why's that suddenly grounds for voting me?
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Because I investigated you last night. I'll give you a chance to say anything you want before I say anything more.
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Ronald Dale;
Then I'll say my role PM did NOT include "You can kill people". ... but my role PM does say... Gruh.
Hargreaves, do you mind keeping it to yourself for now? I'm back in two hours after grocery shopping, possibly less, and I'll disclose everything I know then. You can decide if I'm lying, but I swear that if your investigation pops up me as a killer, I have absolutely no recollection of being one. ... and I suspect that this may well be the case.
-
Sure
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Ronald Dale; (?)
Raining, so I just went to a grocery store nearby.
Anyway, to clear matters up. I'm not Ronald Dale.
In fact, I am not even a guy! (don't worry if I look like one, I don't know why!)
I'm actually Mei-Fan Chen, from China. I have no idea what my job is, but it has to do with research.
I am Cop. My sanity was not confirmed, but I confirmed it during the game to be "sane" - more on that in a few. My alternate identity was revealed to me on Night 2, along with an... interesting memory snippet.
A German soldier was talking to me in French, calling me "Mr Schmidt" - for all intents and purposes this is to Ronald Dale. Dale then grabs a knife and I black out.
Similar stories emerged each night, but I passed them off as unimportant flavour, a mistake Hargreaves has now confirmed to be stupid. I suspected it but he basically confirms it - I am probably the killer.
Mei-Fan probably comes from the future. Today I received a message that I read a newspaper on October 26 (gameDay 1) that a man was sliced up and Ronald Dale was the only witness. And he witnessed a vague man in his 30s escape.
Ronald Dale is in his 30s.
My night targets were Peyton, Pietro, Chad and Kyle, in that order. Chad was a barderp, I hope you'll forgive me for it.
However, Peyton was attacked N1, and the other two died on the nights I investigated them.
Coupled with Hargreaves' story, I believe I am an insane killer, á la Jackal and Hyde.
I chose not to voice these suspicions because it sounded downright crazy but if Hargreaves rolecopped me to be the killer, and the targets picked were already suspect, then I believe there is sufficient reason to believe I may in fact be that killer.
If I am then my honest apologies to town, I was never informed my power would kill and N1 and N2 I had thought of as coincidences, given that I found them both pretty suspicious and obvious targets for the kill.
I can only say my Day 1 and 2 hazy play were due to laying low as a Cop, and my insistence on lynching Pietro came from the belief that there was no way there were two Cops. Hayles later was because I specifically paid attention to that tidbit, hence why I could point it out that quickly.
N1 I investigated Peyton because the walls of text were the best I had D1 as suspicious, he returned Town.
N2 I investigated Pietro because I thought he'd die the next day and I wanted to confirm my sanity, he returned Town.
N3 I hatbotted the action and investigated Chad, forgetting he was getting slowkilled.
N4 I investigated Handley, because I was sure he was scum and wanted a solid investigation in my hand to condemn him.
Also the reason I asked for the date earlier is because November 1 is very very very bad and it is my mission to end the threat to town before that time.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Also, ##VOTE: Snowfire.
-
Analysis to come in a bit, but for now I'll just say that, crazy as it may seem, Bard/Dale/Mei-Fan's story checks out. I actually received two role results for him, one that said he was cop (no sanity given) and one that said he was vigilante. Not "killer" or anything but explicitly "vigilante", which was why I was so confused that anyone would lie about it. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Snowfire
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Just adding: my role PM said that it is Cthulhu Mafia so he couldn't say the role would work as advertised, but I'm definitely not rando or naive, so I took that to mean sanity rather than "olol you are a vigilante as well as Cop!"
... so I'm sane.
... I could've investigated myself and had almost done so N1 to confirm sanity. Go figure.
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"..."
Nathan has been sitting in the back, chewing on his pencil. At the sound of 'Dale' producing 'his' grand declaration, he promptly bites it in two.
"Well, I'll be damned. You certainly pull off a very believable man, that's for sure. This'll make an interesting article tonight...well, as soon as I'm finished with yesterday's. Look, all this madness that's been going around has been screwing with my schedule, okay?
But yeah, Mei-Fan is...wow. That is the best worst role ever. If it wasn't for the fact that Hargreaves has basically vouched for you, I'd probably be voting you right now. For the moment, I'm pretty sure it's just safe to ##Vote: Snowfire (L-1) for what is possibly the most absurd setup I've ever seen in all my days."
((It's very tempting to start saying Chen, but given the forum I come from that has obvious connotations. :V))
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Hutchins Hops It, A Brand New Bike, And O'Malley Dies For His Sins
The Latest Installment In The Nathan Greaves Guest Report Saga
In another wild day in Marbury, the death count surrounding the Jon Hutchins investigation continues to rise.
After leading his football team to a stunning victory against their Milton rivals, Chad Hutchins, the son of the deceased, has disappeared. Margie Jenkins, the family's housemaid, was believed to be delirious when she claimed that the Hutchins household was missing, but sure enough the manor has completely vanished, leaving nothing but a mysterious symbol in the earth.
While this most curious incident unfolded, another mystery emerged on the other side of Town. In the early hours of the morning Jeb Cress, proprietor of Rosie's Country Inn, revealed to the masses that his wife Mary was, contrary to popular belief, still among the living. The situation grew even more confusing when Marbury welcomed yet another new resident - Gershom Bike, supposed brother of the missing-and-presumed-dead Moses Bike. His face is strikingly similar to that of his brother, and there are suspicions passing around that the two might in fact be the same man.
Still, in the midst of all this calamity, the search for the accomplices of Ethan Hayles ran on unfazed. Evening brought a final majority down upon Seamus O'Malley, local all-around handyman. As the investigation dragged on, he claimed to have been a former member of the clergy, but as this claim was placed under the magnifying glass O'Malley attempted to flee the scene. Marbury watched on as the priest was lead to the gallows, muttering that he had been intending to 'save' the innocents of Marbury despite having been found guilty of assisting in Hutchins' murder.
Uncertain police officials have reported the recent series of successful investigations as 'positive', but by now they have stopped attempting to explain the various supernatural occurances that have plagued this little town. Several residents are still in disbelief over the return of Mary Cress in particular, and there is noticable speculation over what other strange forces will act next...
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If we lynch SnowFire does that count as a "happily ever after"?
Anyway. This breaks open Bike's nice box. We have two scum left alive, and putting aside my good self, only one person without some degree of clear on them, namely Andrews. We have mod-confirmation on Bike, and external confirmation (barring a counterclaim which would shock me even after this much insanity) for Mei-Fan and Greaves. Which leaves Andrews and Kolmogorov, but I also think Daniels isn't absolutely clear; "returns vanilla to rolecops" strikes me as a far more sensible godfather-type ability than "returns Miller Rolecop X to rolecops", particularly since it would sort-of match Handley's role. I can't judge how obvious I was in pushing him at the start of day 3, but from here I can well imagine him realising I had a role result from what I said. The initial miller claim of course makes sense as scum, both to protect himself from "proper" cops and to get Hellsnake lynched. The one niggle here is how well it fits in with Hutchins' role, but I can see that being deliberate setup - it's a bastardy role combination, sure, but at this point everything's bastard modding to a greater or lesser extent. On that basis I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that scum received some kind of hint that such a role existed. (Or they happened to hit Chad with a role investigation night 1 - unlikely, sure, but everything's unlikely now)
All of which proves nothing, of course. Maybe Nikolai really is scum, Daniels really is town, and I'm just overthinking things. But while he's been posting a lot more than the Russian, I don't remember a whole lot of what Daniels has been saying, and with this much insanity around I don't think we should be writing him off on roles any more than we should be Kolmogorov.
That said, I don't think he's my prime suspect for today. While we must be dealing with one crazy role-godfather (and that's in addition to the docfather, but given no real cops that's less wtf than it might be), and even given all that's happened, I'm not yet willing to believe in both Kolmogorov and Daniels being scum. I'm aware that for the rest of you, going by pure rolelogic makes me the prime target, but I have to follow my own principles.
##FoS: Martin Andrews; will do a full reread of the three of them and place my vote either this evening or tomorrow, but I don't expect to be anywhere else.
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Votecount.
Nikolai Kolmogorov [2]: Jack Daniels, Gershom Bike
Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche) [ 0]: Samuel Hargreaves
SnowFire [3]: Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves, Nathan Greaves
Uh... I'm at L-1, so it looks like I better role-claim. I'm actually Town Yog-Soggoth, by which I mean I want to devour the town. That quiet your suspicions?
Also note that Mr. Soggoth is on vacation at the moment, so if you want me to respond to IRC pings talk to "Snow_Fire" or "Snow_flame" as SnowFire/Snowflame is my home account I left online despite not being there.
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Well good. That's not exactly how I saw those claims going,
Samuel: the thing that clears Jack is the fact that he claimed that he had lost his miller status, and then Chad flipped. Especially with the specific claims from the mod that scum millers do not exist, and though he wouldn't rule out the possibility of powers that could fake miller to rolecops, he did say that only millers would respond to Chad's power. Even if scum did somehow find out about Chad's role, Jack made it clear that he'd lost miller status before Chad said anything about having targeted him. It's really, really tight short of something utterly retarded, which is why I'm willing to confirm him and bitch about it later if he is somehow scum.
So no, as usual you're barking up the wrong tree of set up theory for the wrong reasons.
Mei-Fan: leaving aside everything else for now, just how did you know about the existence of the godfather? (or godfather-esque role - I'm not saying that it need not be Seamus's docfather)
Mei-Fan's claim reduces some odds, at least. ScumMei-Fan => scumSamuel. I'm probably going to clear her outright quite yet when I have a few remaining things to consider, but it almost certainly fits into the puzzle as expected.
I'm pretty much sold on scumNikolai, which may well seal scumSamuel as a result. ScumNikolai at least resolves tons of stuff.
In fact, if I can convince myself to clear the fast kill (which could yet be counter-claimed, but I doubt it), I'm reducing the field to {Nikolai, Samuel, Martin}, which is sufficiently few to force the win. (I haven't said much - if anything - about Martin, but his actions since the box initially closed have matched the rough models I'd expect of scum, it's just lower profile since scumMartin has always been covered by plans)
I have two concerns at present. One of which is a potential set up involving a scum fast kill (very unlikely, hopefully on my way to disproving it), and the other relating to my night 1 action. Now that I've convinced myself on scumNikolai I'm pretty sure 4 inside / 6 outside refers to the miller set up, but I've been wondering if 5 outside could specifically refer to an ITP, and working out just where the ITP would realistically live in all of this. I'm hoping just as a survivor. Mostly, I'm back to wondering why the 5/6 outside was left so uncertain.
I also asked the mod to confirm that scum must kill. Well, not quiet that. Something like 'scum must use their primary killing power each night' so that the response would not imply anything about the alignment or even existence of particular killing powers in the game. Annoyingly no, he refused to confirm even that about scum rules. I asked because them forgoing the slow kill leading into a 2:1 would let them win the game (by being the only one to claim the attack). I'm pretty sure that they do have to kill, but better safe than sorry - it's another reason for ensuring 3:1 if possible, as that scum gambit fails there too.
So yes, I'm pretty hot for Samuel taking the fast kill this evening, given the lack of a bulletproof claim for defence. Bonus points for it tying Mei-Fan down just in case of the aforementioned scum pairing.
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Oh, pardon me, maybe he'll be able to do his silly claimed protect thing on himself, if allowed. As much as that came with claims of an attached curse if that actually deflected a kill.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Regarding that. I was blatantly told in no uncertain terms that I had knowledge of a Godfather-variant or Godfather being among scum. The first post notes the Docfather as "Godfather-variant", so I assume that the one I was hunting for has been resolved.
Additionally, mr Greaves, I'd like to point out that Day 1 you said you were hunting for a serial killer. I have reason to believe, from flavour, that mr Ronald Dale is the acclaimed Serial Killer. This night I saw a memory snippet where a detetive threatened Ronald Dale to get out of town due to "a problem" he "didn't have under control", and every night I black out for a while.
"I" referring to Mei-Fan Chen. I know little of Ronald Dale, but enough now to assume he's the serial killer you might've been looking for.
There's no need to look elsewhere for third parties right now, let's focus on scum, shall we?
RE: My night actions, I'll respectfully say I have no intention of staying my hand due to November 1st being a daily panic attack for me. I'd rather take my chances with hitting scum than I do with allowing scum to reach that coveted date. (I think we have tonight left before november 1st, correct me if wrong)
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Ah, we have three nights at best, unless mod time skips. Nevermind, I can control Ronald Dale as necessary. Unless someone has objections with me following confirmedTown's directions, I'll be fine with having my action directed for the night, even if it means staynig my hand.
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Sorry, did Chad actually claim to have targeted Jack? I don't remember it and couldn't see it on a quick look through his posts.
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The more pertinent question would be how scum could possibly know about the miller-removal when he'd only return 'doctor' to rolecops.
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"I have to agree in that Hargreaves's theory about Daniels being scum is really grasping at straws. Whether it's trying too hard or scummy desperation I can't quite be sure.
What I can be sure about is that Nikolai has still not shown up. Seriously, this is just getting ridiculous now. I don't want to turn suspicions on someone else in case it gives Nikolai an excuse to post at the last minute, get himself cleared for the day and likely secure another mislynch, but if we sit around waiting for him we could be waiting for a long time at this rate...that leaves Andrews and Hargreaves by process of elimination, and Andrews hasn't done much to improve since The Big Post. He was on O'Malley at day's end, true, but the alternative was a deadlock that would've wrecked him after Handley flipped Town, so it doesn't mean as much as it could.
...That's good news to hear, Ms. Mei-Fan. Maybe if the two of us survive this whole escapade, I can take you on a nice little trip to Chicago. I know a few friends who might be able to help you out with your...problem."
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I've stopped giving a toss about my previous ITP worry, as it occurs to me Samuel rolecopping Mei-Fan means he can only be town or scum (if lying gambit), and it's only the fast kill's alignment that really matters for those purposes. If there's a survivor sitting amongst us, good for them.
I'm not sure I can realistically see anything other than a {Nikolai, Martin} pair remaining at this point, really. Again, need to pull back to make sure laziness isn't just leading me/us to loss. I've got another query I need to pass by the mod, but mostly right now I need to sleep.
I'm coming to assume that Nikolai has basically just given up at this point. It wouldn't be an uncommon response.
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Top thing that comes to mind is that Nikolai claimed to have scanned Kyle on night 2. How delightfully suspicious that looks now.
How/why? I'm a rolecop, and I actually got that precise result. That plus his reasoning for attempting to lynch me D3 were what made me think he was Scum D4 (fortunately, I did not wind up voting him. When it turned out his wagon was started by and an alternate wagon TO Seamus O'ScumExcal's, it was somewhat clear he was Town).
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Also, severely doubting the Daniels is Scum theory for the simple reason that why would Scum-Daniels attempt to counterclaim Town-Hellsnake? It's possible that Scum really wanted Hellsnake dead after they rolecopped him or something, but considering that at least one of the Scum was off his wagon, I doubt this. Other than this reason, I cannot see any reason to counter a Miller claim, especially one that you didn't know was actually true - three Millers is somewhat sensible as a Scum gambit; Two? Not so much.
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((HA HA HA HA HA I LOVE THIS SETUP. This is Role Madness done right.))
Good to see you showin' yer face again, Ruskie. But I ain't too pleased. Where's that "wall of text" you done promised us last gameday? Sure, even if none of it's all too applicable, I'd like to SEE it if you don't mind--it would be right nice to see that you weren't just talkin' out yer Lenin-lovin' ass about it. Don't even have to clean it up all that much.
An, if it ain't applicable no more, well, right after I'd right like to see your take on the day's situation as is.
Nah, Samuel, I'm ... kinda sure yer a good man but what's this nonsense about me bein' scum? As Bike done pointed out, Chad comes back plain ol' doc to rolecops, and he while he also done nothin' to speak up and say he targetted me, the poor boy ain't said nothin' 'bout not targettin' me (not that he wouldda--flip's a little murky on th' topic, but I assume he didn't know nothin' 'bout his miller removin' powers, an if he did it wouldda been a right dumb move to speak up about it l'est it were to call me out on a lie ((Actually, HEY MOD! Could you clear this one up a little? If Chad did know that he cleaned up Millers this will put Hargreaves' theory to rest, and if he didn't nothing's really changed.))). Other people have touched more on why your line o' thought don't make no sense, but I will say if you were tryin' to build a case on me, there's plenty else to go off of--how much I been wrong about who's scum and who's not, how dang lazy I got yesterday after bein' largely declared confirmed town. Ain't got no good excuse fer it 'cept to say I play like shit. >_>
Speakin' o' that, though, I think it's right time to come out with what makes you so dang sure Nikolai is town and I ain't--what's so dang special about power number 3 that makes you sure the Ruskie's a townie? Especially since it ain't come into play at all near as I ken tell--last big obvious mystery's done cleared itself up with our Chinawoman friend o'er here. Yer backin' aside, Nikolai's makin' my scumdar flare up real bad, (which, in fairness, given that I've been convinced Pietro, Hellsnake, Handley, and until the last minute Callahan were scum but was dang unsure o' O'Malley an' Hayles, don't say too much. Only reason I can give for being sure this time is that I think I'm gettin' better 'bout what's a scumtell and what's just poor play? We'll see).
Speakin' o' the Chinaman... Now, I ain't one to poke at people fer not puttin' 2 and 2 together, but didn'tcha think it were a li'l ODD that every dang person you investigated got their throat's slit, or claimed to have warded off an attack? Hell, I would-a thought that the only night somebody didn't get fastkilled was the night you targetted the boy who got slowkilt would-a raised some flags. This... well, it ain't scummy. If I'm to trust in Hargreaves, and you explicitly came back Vigilante, well... yer about as confirmed town as Greaves is. Problem is I'm not too sure how much I trust in Hargreaves at this point.
So, that leaves us with... Mr. Andrews. Y'know, maybe I'm fishin' too much through flavor, but it were said in my role PM that Andrews was "Jon's favorite new disciple", and when Chad done poked at him fer more info he just claimed amnesia. Mildly suspicious, now that I come to think of it. I know his guardian angel's pretty dang busy, so I'll wait a bit fer him to weigh in on the day. Gut says he's town, based off-a play, but... well, my gut ain't meant much all game, and we're runnin' out o' suspects.
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Oh, yeh. I done think that considerin' were in potential LYLO (that apparently favors town), not usin' yer power would be the best idea? Ol' Germoses' plan seems sound, but assumin' a town Samuel we don't rightly know what that curse could be. Errin' on the side o' caution could be best? Though I'll rightly defer to Bike's opinion on the matter--he clearly done thought it through more than I 'ave.
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The last message was directed at the chinaman, if it weren't clear.
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Jack:
Also, to be clear, Chad didn't know about *any* of the Squeaky-Clean stuff, just that his treatment might have side effects.
In flavor notes, "Mei-Fan" / "Ronald Dale" looks exactly the same as ever, that is, like Ronald Dale does. Also none of you know Chinese so you can't really tell if (he? she?) is speaking gibberish or real Chinese, though Mei-Fan is definitely speaking in a strange accent.
Votecount.
Nikolai Kolmogorov [2]: Jack Daniels, Gershom Bike
Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche) [ 0]: Samuel Hargreaves
SnowFire [3]: Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves, Nathan Greaves
With 7 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch. It is potential LYLO. Day 5 has no hard deadline yet, but usual comment about no need to take forever.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
以古讽今, I certainly speak Chinese you bastard mod.
Shoving that aside, I didn't think something was fishy because NAHHHHH I WOULDN'T HAVE A KILLER ROLE, RIGHT? and from my perspective at best I was cleaning out the scummy people. I had no reason to suspect I was the vigilant until Night 3, and by today I had no reason to give serious consideration to it until Hargreaves' there reacted, prompting me to out the possibility and connect the dots as more than just coincidence.
Like I said, the flavour in my PMs, I glossed over them and didn't really stop to think about their implications.
As far as scum goes I'm fine with Kolmogorov on a re-read. His Day4 isn't stellar and he hasn't done anything whatsoever today hinting at effort to disperse the pretty overwhelming attitude towards lynching him.
I don't see why Hargreaves is the best candidate for a Night Kill, but if Kolmogorov does flip Scum there's a real possibility of Hargreaves being the last one, or else Martin.
Otherwise it's either Nathan being some bizarre revivalist doctor scum who didn't/couldn't revive scum, or Daniels having the world's strangest form of luck. Thankfully Snow already outright denied the possibility of Ronald Dale being the last scum while Mei-Fan Chen isn't scum. >:
man i keep forgetting Roukan is Nathan because his play here is so good and yet so what on that other place
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"I didn't think something was fishy because ... from my perspective at best I was cleaning out the scummy people"?
So, you didn't think you had a killing role, but you thought you were cleaning out the scummy people?
/me takes a swig and strokes his beard.
Uh. So which is it: You thought you were cleaning out the scummy people, or you thought you weren't the killer?
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Good to see you showin' yer face again, Ruskie. But I ain't too pleased. Where's that "wall of text" you done promised us last gameday? Sure, even if none of it's all too applicable, I'd like to SEE it if you don't mind--it would be right nice to see that you weren't just talkin' out yer Lenin-lovin' ass about it. Don't even have to clean it up all that much.
Well, certainly, but it principally concerns someone who I had an extremely wrong read on (our good salesman friend, Handley), so I'm not sure if posting it will be all that useful.
An, if it ain't applicable no more, well, right after I'd right like to see your take on the day's situation as is.
Hargreaves is...I'm not sure. He did have my role down correctly, and he did seem to explain the fastkills what with the Mei-Fan Chen nutjobbery, and he's been playing pretty well otherwise, but I'm at least somewhat perplexed as to why there are two rolecops - and mine is clearly specified as being "notoriously unreliable" and "a trap" (unreliable indeed, I nearly hydrated my monitor after discovering what Handley supposedly was...and how he could not, for instance, be a triplevoter), so...hmm. I will have to give him an actual reread as well as some wagonalysis - preliminary wagonalysis doesn't turn up anything terribly interesting, other than the fact that our farmer Scum and our priest Scum were not very coordinated in their choices of lynch wagons, for the most part (Seamus, for one, started Hayles' wagon D3 that ultimately led to a lynch).
But really, this means that we have...7 people, one of whom is ModConfirmed as being a Townie (Gershom Bike), one of whom is almost certainly a Townie barring EVEN MORE BASTARD MODDERY (Nathan Greaves, for his resurrection of Moses Bike), one of whom might be Anti-Town but is probably not Scum, (Mei-Fan Chen - unless the mafia have no less than two nightkills now somehow), myself - think of me what you will, I am actually somewhat fine with being lynched today, and then you, Hargreaves and Andrews:
- Hargreaves, as I had noted above, I am not sure about. I will need to do a proper reread of him, specifically in relation to his voting patterns and behaviours w.r.t our two already-flipped Scum.
- You, I think rather unlikely to be Scum, for now. It's a plausible scenario, but unlikely.
- That leaves us with Andrews, and I got back a fairly...interesting result for him on the rolecopping, which I will post as soon as I can run some things past the mod.
The only thing that bothers me about this is that this is "potential LYLO", which means that tomorrow, if we lynch Town today and then still manage to survive to tomorrow, we'd likely be looking at 5 people and Actual LYLO (SnowFlame: correct me if I am wrong on this), which necessitates two Scum, not just two members of Anti-Town factions, as 3 1 1 is not a guaranteed loss for Town even if they mis-lynch (it, however, requires the two Anti-Town killing factions to not know who the other is, so hm.), meaning that we'd almost certainly be looking at 5 2. Which makes me wonder, again, about Hargreaves. Part of me fully trusts him, both due to his defence of me (why would Scum want to keep a Townie, a specific Townie, and especially me given full knowledge of my role, alive this long?) D3 that largely contributed to Hayles getting lynched that day instead of myself, and the other part of me just wonders about the whole thing due to setup/role/Scum amount constraints.
Bleh.
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And, from what Hargreaves done said, his rolecoppin' adds a bonus doc-type effect, but if it deflects a kill then somethin' bad happens. Bike's whole plan is to have Samuel rolecop/bodyguard hisself an' have you attack him t' verify the roles, is my understandin'.
Ninja'd.
Useful 'er not, Red, I'd like to see it. Y'ken even put big ol' "This post is nigh on useless" tags or whatnot if it makes you feel better about it. And the sooner the better--if it's so dang useless then there's no real point in editin' it at all. Just want to see it.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
"I didn't think something was fishy because ... from my perspective at best I was cleaning out the scummy people"?
So, you didn't think you had a killing role, but you thought you were cleaning out the scummy people?
/me takes a swig and strokes his beard.
Uh. So which is it: You thought you were cleaning out the scummy people, or you thought you weren't the killer?
I didn't think I had a killing role, but I suspected something was fishy. I felt more annoyed that my investigation targets kept dying.
When I suspected I had something to do with it I didn't really mind, because from my perspective I would just be killing whoever was suspicious to me. I never really put a lot of thought into it regardless, because I thought it was too silly and was more getting annoyed with my role turning out "useless" due to my targets continuously dying.
Far as Bike's plan, I have no idea. If he says "gut Sam if Kolmo flips scum with no anti-informative role", then I gut Sam if Kolmo flips scum with no anti-informative role, and heck be damned what the others do - at this point his plan makes a reasonable amount of sense outside of vigging Martin.
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Okay, a little less than 2 hours from the request. Nikolai, I don't really need to see it anymore, since the whole point was to verify that you HAD something. At this point, anything posted could easily have been written in the last hour and 40 minutes or so, so it won't verify anything either way. But if you had been able to produce it, I'd have been a might bit more inclined to think that, if you weren't town, you were at least trying to fake it.
Now, I have no grounds to assume that, Mr. Lurky-Lurk. I'm going with the LAL strategy, and unless Hargreaves or yourself can give you a damn good reason for me to not be eager to lynch you....
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@Andrews: I am giving you another 18 hours before I wind up outing you (as I am somewhat sold on you being Scum by now), so if you have any major objections, now is the time to voice them.
@Daniels: I could have typed up a somewhat decent analysis post from scratch in 40 minutes, possibly less, if I were indeed Scum and also were doing ex-post-facto analysis on Handley. That being said, unusually enough, while I would still rather lynch Scum, I am somewhat fine with being lynched myself if we can't come to any other consensus - you will see why when I flip (and Hargreaves knows the answer as well - I would very much like it btw, Hargreaves, if you were to keep not mentioning what X is, still).
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Just got home. Been out without internet access since my last post. (Yes, I was out from 9 AM to 1 AM. I did warn you. I will be out for much of tomorrow, too. Sorry, real life takes precedence over Mafia.) Reading over what's happened since then, and...yeah, urge to vote Snowfire rising. But anyway!
Roleclaim: I am Docproof. I might not know much about anything, what with the lack of memories, but I alone know the true secret of the evil conspiracy that calls itself "doctors". Namely, that they're out to kill us all! Also, for some reason I call them "the Order of Caduceus." So basically, yeah, I'm tinfoil-hat crazy. All I know about Jon is what I said when I posted my flavor - that I can't remember anything specific about him but have some instinctive feeling that he's a good man, deserving of my faith and loyalty. I suppose the idea that I'm loyal to him could mean that I was his "disciple" before I lost my memories, and he was the one who convinced me that doctors are all evil bastards, but I really don't know.
Anyway, the upside of all this craziness is that I won't let any doctor get close enough to me to so much as take my pulse. A night action attempted on me by someone with a doctor role fails, whether that action is actual doctoring or something else entirely. When I started out, this looked like a really crappy role (I have the power...to DIE!), but then the scum started flipping with doc roles (SnowFire confrimed to me that "Psychologist" counts as a doctor) and I reread the PM and realized that it meant ANY night action from a doctor fails, not just doctor protection, which, again by word of mod, includes nightkill attempts from scum doctors. So yes, in a game full of nigh-useless bulletproofs, I actually am, bulletproof, sorta - and I didn't even know it until Night 4. Of course, seeing as I'm one of the few remaining suspects in a game that has two confirmed townies, even if the other scum are doctors I've got a better chance of winning the lottery than drawing a nightkill.
Okay, so Bard's out, which means two of the role-confirmed trio are scum. Time to give them each a hard look. Reread starting right after laundry.
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Also, just to be clear: My power has not come into play at all. I would get a PM if any doctor targeted me with a night action, and no such PMs have appeared.
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That being said, unusually enough, while I would still rather lynch Scum, I am somewhat fine with being lynched myself if we can't come to any other consensus - you will see why when I flip (and Hargreaves knows the answer as well - I would very much like it btw, Hargreaves, if you were to keep not mentioning what X is, still).
Ha... ha ha ha ha.... ha ha ha ha ha WHAT?
Okay. Whatever. "Don't tell them power number 3 because... you'll see~~~~~~"
Ha ha, whatisthisidonteven...
Andrews: And, how/why did you become aware of this on Night 4, if your power hasn't come into play at all?
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Jack: because that's the point he reread his stuff and asked about it. Not that I inherently trust the rest (and his cover story is about as believable as Seamus's), but that much follows.
Anyway, my conclusion on Mei-Fan Chen is as follows (putting together pieces I've already mentioned):
Samuel scanned him as a vigilante cop. Either Samuel is telling the truth and Mei-Fan is town, or Samuel is lying scum and so is Mei-Fan. Therefore Mei-Fan is not ITP. (short of retard stuff)
Seamus had the docfather power yet played a miller strategy (on day 2, not day 1), which would flounder horribly if used on himself. Thus he planned on protecting fellow scum, heavily, heavily implying that the fast kill was not amongst their ranks. For this and a hundred other circumstantial reasons I've been throwing out, Mei-Fan is not scum.
Therefore I am willing to take Mei-Fan as town with about 99% reliability even with all of the gaffes and huge question marks (truth be told, I was mostly convinced you were scum and expecting the fast kill to belong to Martin, and your claim made me unsettled when it should have instantly sealed the deal), and would strongly suggest against her lynch short of an extraordinary revelation.
I think we can almost force a win for town just on the basis of trusting that myself, Jack and Mei-Fan are town.
Lynch today.
Kill tonight.
Now, assuming that one of those two were scum, you're left in a situation of Jack, Mei-Fan and two others. Let's assume Mei-Fan has the slow kill at that point. You then lynch one and fast kill the other if you're wrong. The hilarity would be if you do get it wrong then the slow kill gets assigned to Jack and then everyone is dead as of a day later, but given that I feel very strongly towards Nathan's innocence, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't come to that.
Holes in this theory: well, top of the list is if one of Jack of Mei-Fan is scum, but I'm already fooled at this point if so. Jack in particular I'll be pissed (ba dum tsshhh) if he ends up scum, because at least Mei-Fan could be the product of a kill restriction and scum brilliance on Excal's part, if Xanatos much.
Next is that we can only be certain of this set up if we lynch scum today. I don't believe in two scum docs given Excal's docfather miller strategy, but better safe than sorry and all that, and with only one scum left they'll be forced out on the kill (I'm sure of this, even if the mod won't confirm it). The one instance of two scum docs that seems plausible is scum rolecop doc ('sup, Sam), given that one does want the rolecop outside of scum's ranks, so it's not entirely implausible.
And yes, naturally the other hole is the risk of hitting two town and losing tonight, but minimising risk and all that.
Anyway, so I'd been saying earlier that the fast killer shouldn't be killing tonight if we hit town on account of it using up a lynch and potentially losing the game based on one person's decision rather than everyone's, but now I think it's better to take that risk because of the shape of the game - good odds of hitting scum, and a 3:1 endgame here is much, much better for town than 2:1. The only difference is that if we do hit town today, then Mei-Fan should kill Martin instead of Samuel. My reasoning for that is as follows: whether we hit scum or not, it's in Samuel's best interests to protect himself. If we do hit scum, though, it's good to try and gut him because he can only defend himself if he's not scum, or even if he can it would be at the expense of the slow kill, which would be observable immediately afterwards. So either he's scum and we win, or he's town and clear (at worst town and can't protect himself, but we've covered that). However, if we hit town we cannot possibly convince Samuel to not defend himself, because townSamuel knows the game is lost if he dies, and scumSamuel would likewise protect himself, knowing there's no way to tell the two apart. However, Martin has now claimed this docproof malarckey. Gutting him should definitely work unless he's lying scum and either he or his scumbuddy protects him. So either he dies and is probably scum, or he doesn't die and definitely is (hey there Samuel and Nathan, in this instance obviously do not protect him [if you're town] for some reason like 'to test if he's lying or not').
Reading over that you'll see it does as ever work out a lot more comfortably assuming we do lynch scum, but go figure. The latter plan fails in the case of a {Samuel, Nathan} team, which admittedly is the only team I could see Nathan existing on, but is still implausible in my eyes. It neatly works out with my own readings of relationships within the game, as I feel that {Samuel, Nikolai} is the only plausible scum pair I can see including Samuel, and sees Samuel taking the bullet only if Nikolai goes down first.
Thoughts? etc. etc.
Putting that to one side, the recurring theme is that it makes a huge difference to lynch scum in the here and now, so go figure that should always be the main order of business. On that note, I still have no reason to stray from Nikolai, especially with the resolution of needing to move out of the box at some point.
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And can't for the life of me think what this 'X' could be that should still be protected. Everything you've been dropping light hints to needn't be hidden.
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First off, this is annoyingly late enough in the day phase, and I apologise for this, however I feel it is important enough to be mentioned. I did target Moses Bike last night, however, my action is not a delayed kill (unless the mod is even more of a bastard than I had expected). Rather, it is a rolecop: I find out their role "ability", but like everything else in this bloody game, it comes wrapped in the usual case of flavour-insanity. However, I am not sure if I am willing to or if I even need to reveal what I found out about Bike's role last night (there have been enough roleclaims so far, and I am unconvinced that cracking the setup wide-open at this point is a good idea, considering what just happened in memes mafia), but if Bike himself or enough of the rest of Town want me to, then I will.
Top thing that comes to mind is that Nikolai claimed to have scanned Kyle on night 2. How delightfully suspicious that looks now.
How/why? I'm a rolecop, and I actually got that precise result. That plus his reasoning for attempting to lynch me D3 were what made me think he was Scum D4 (fortunately, I did not wind up voting him. When it turned out his wagon was started by and an alternate wagon TO Seamus O'ScumExcal's, it was somewhat clear he was Town).
On night 1 you got unclear results on an archivist, but on night 2 you got crystal clear results on a really batshit role? Oh okay.
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Oh, and pardon me, I'd forgotten about the cop element of Mei-Fan's role. Any failed fast kill attempt will at least return a cop result, just to concrete things further. Especially in the Samuel case, which may mean it would be worth bouncing the kill off of him tonight even if we mislynch town today (unless he does now conveniently claim he can't protect himself). It'd only be worse in the case he is scum and deflects it, because after his quick lynch we'd end up with the less preferable 2:1 set up (if he's town, then great, it means you've reduced the possible pairs to precisely {Martin, Nathan} somehow, as much as I can't see how that makes sense, and win).
I think it's possibly slightly inferior but, should Nikolai manage to flip town, I'd leave the choice to Mei-Fan to decide which of {Samuel, Nathan} and {Martin, Nathan} is the less likely pair to risk losing to. By which I mean yes, you could instead kill Nathan and risk a {Samuel, Martin} pair, but I think that's far more plausible than the other two possibilities.
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Okay, awake. Conked out shortly after geting my homemaker shit done last night, because it was nearly 3AM when I finished everything and FUCK that was a tiring day.
Andrews: And, how/why did you become aware of this on Night 4, if your power hasn't come into play at all?
That was when Excal flipped doctor too and I was inspired to reread the PM and noticed the exact wording, leading to a conversation with SnowFire where he confirmed that yes, that's how it worked. Before that I just took the power at face value as "immune to being doctored" and left it at that. I knew I was immune to Hayles as soon as he flipped, because SnowFire went out of his way to tell me that psychologists are doctors for purposes of my power, and I briefly thought that meant slowkill immunity and that maybe all doctors really were scum. That lasted until the opening of day 4, when Chad flipped town doctor for strike one on that theory, and then Peyton claimed his slowkill and dashed it completely to hell - if scum could slowkill without the psychiatrist, why would I be immune to it? So I didn't bother examining the possibility any further for the rest of the day. Once Excal flipped Docfather, reinvigorating the idea that the scum had a doctor theme, even if not all doctors are scum, I thought it over again.
Bike: I agree that the evidence is uniformly in favor of the vig being town - add to your list that SnowFire has declared this a LYLO that favors town, when from all indications in the event of a mislynch Bard can end the game at will. In theory he and Samuel could be scum and lying about some restriction on him, but if he couldn't kill tonight then it wouldn't be LYLO, so that doesn't work.
In turn, that means your strategy works out comfortably provided we lynch scum today. To wit: Scum!Nikolai dies and it's 4:1, Town!me dies at night (I'd rather not, but you seem fixed on the idea), it's 3:1, then you lynch Hargreaves the next morning and, if he flips town, pray that Nathan (who would therefore be the final scum) can't protect himself from Schizo!Bard's final kill, because otherwise we lose when Bard/Jack dies and leaves the other in 1:1 with Nathan. If Nikolai's town....well, if Nikolai is town I'm going to put him in the Pietro Giovanni Hall of Shame, but it also means that Nathan and Samuel are the scum with 100% certainty. Lynching one would put town right back at 3:1, and we can just lynch him when it's 2:1 the next day, or Bard can go crazy at him. Mislynch me instead (sigh) and Bard's last kill will hopefully keep the game going, allowing you to lynch the surviving member of the pair the next day. I think that covers all possibilities? Basically, at this point we win unless (a) Nathan is bulletproof/self-protecting doctor scum and we need a NK on him to win, or (b) one of the confirmed townies isn't (in which case, lynch the mod).
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Sorry Martin, I'm just about to go out the door so I haven't had a chance to read your post in full, but my plan only involves fast killing you tonight if Nikolai flips town, and even then I'm not certain it's optimal not to go for Samuel.
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Yeah, the way I worked it out assumes no Bardkill tonight if we mislynch.
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....wait, I read that wrong. Again.
You want to nightkill me if Nikolai flips town? Okay, now I'm not so much in favor of the plan. If we mislynch today it's 4:2 going into Night 5. The scumkill on you kicks in, it's 3:2. If I die on top of that, it's 2:2 and we lose. Instead of getting to Day 6 with 3:2, when we can lynch and have the nightkill in reserve in case we're wrong? What's the advantage there?
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Just to be clear, the only reason I don't have the same objection for a nightkill targeted at Samuel in that situation is because if Nikolai is town then I know Samuel is scum, by simple process of elimination. Looking it at it from the perspective of not knowing whether or not I'm town, I don't see the percentage in risking the game tonight.
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Right, no putting this off any longer; I've done a full reread of suspects and flipped scum. Plenty on Daniels wrt play and voting, but no point bringing that up given that even he agrees his play is bad; if people think he's cleared on roles there's no arguing with that.
Daniels: It's not power X itself that makes me think my role results clear Kolmogorov more than you, it's the fact that he just has three seemingly-random powers. Returning "Vanilla" to rolecops seems a sensible role. Returning ZOMG ALL THE ROLES EVAR, as it seems Kyle did, makes sense. Returning an arbitrary sprinkling of three seems utterly insane. But I accept that's no longer a good enough reason to rule anything out.
One minor, very WIFOMy point against Andrews comes from O'Malley's:
He's talking about what Hellsnake should have known. Now, what I find interesting is that what Martin seems to feel that scumsnake should know isn't Bike's alignment, but his role. Specifically, he should have a better idea of what Bike's role is than if he were town, which implies that Scum know more than was stated publically. Which raises the question, if scum do know this, then how does Martin know that scum know this?
Andrews quickly refutes this, of course; he hadn't actually made such a slip. The reason this is interesting is it makes more sense for O'Malley to be confused if he had reason to believe Andrews had slipped, because Andrews was scum, than if Andrews was town.
More seriously we have the end of day 3. Here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105987.html#msg105987) he strongly implies Hayles will be top of his scumlist; then here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106083.html#msg106083), no mention of Hayles at all, he's on Handley, with the added irony that it's for dropping his case on his #1 suspect.
End of day 4 also looks bad; Andrews umms and aahs about O'Malley right up to here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106575.html#msg106575), before finally voting him very late on.
Start of day 4, Andrews goes after three townies (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106370.html#msg106370). But the interesting thing is he's right; until Peyton hammered, there were three town on Kolmogorov, with four scum alive, in potential LYLO. It seems astonishing that scum would not have lynched Kolmogorov at that point, unless he was one of their own.
I still think Nikolai's contributions were better than Andrews', at least when he was making them, but that's not proof, and his failure to deliver his promised wall was poor. Another thing is that even though he's managed to force Andrews into a roleclaim with it, I don't recall us ever getting any proof that Nikolai actually has role results. Most importantly, back on day 2, Kolmogorov puts Hellsnake to L-1 because he finds bulletproof miller reviver too implausible a role; given Nikolai's own role, that looks very bad. The only reason I'm not outright declaring him scum for this is that Pietro was actually town too so it's a stupid scum move.
Finally, there's the fact that Nikolai has said he's fine with being lynched today. Which I can't see being the case if he were really what he seemed; I may be missing something, but to my eyes power X becomes far more useful at LYLO than at any other time. So at this point I think we give him what he asks for. ##UnFoS, ##FoS: Nikolai Kolmogorov.
Short post to follow on the fastkill, I've already spent hours on this. 7 ninjas, will read them next.
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Ok. I'm willing to protect myself (it's not like there's anyone left to investigate, unless the scumteam is Nikolai/Martin, which is our easiest possible state of affairs - and in that case then having Dale clear me is probably more useful than a role result from me on Martin, since I'm not cleared). I'm not willing to commit to not protecting myself unless there's a plan that gives us a guaranteed win.
If Nikolai is town then the X factor complicates things; I think it pushes us back in favour of not fastkilling anyone. So I'd request Bike to explain as clearly - and with as few assumptions - as possible, the basis on which Mei-Fan should decide whether to kill tonight; I'm not confident of my own reasoning here, and she'll have to make the decision quite quickly and under pressure.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Without interference from Bike, and without knowing the killer aspect of my role, my own strategy would have been to check out Samuel for all intents and purposes.
I am not willing to act on Jack at all. He is pretty town to me.
I am willing to act on either Nathan or Samuel tonight, but not on Martin - call it a gut feeling, but I am more leery of either of these two. I still don't believe in excusing Nathan fully on accounts of his role, given that we don't know if he was restricted to reviving town or not, and if it really wasn't just a derpism on scum behalf. They've already proven they're not infallible, bussing an ally only to get lynched the day after.
THAT SAID, I am currently adapting this strategy:
IF Nikolai is Scum, THEN investigate Samuel.
IF Nikolai is Town, THEN investigate Nathan.
IF Nikolai is Scum with anti-informative role, THEN investigate Nathan.
Unless someone presents a compelling case on why Martin needs to die instead, I'll be following this course of action. Nathan has been really suspicious the entire game, and there's no guarantee of anything here.
If anything, a scum gambit where they revive town, then coincidentally they rolecopped the other sounds really fishy.
But you know what seals the deal for me? Martin says Doctors are bad juju. Chad is the dead doctor. Samuel is a Doctor, but according to Bike he knows Scum's secret. And Nathan is a Doctor.
This all assumes Martin is telling the truth, of course. Which is why Samuel should definitely check him out.
BY THE WAY:
Bike, on the night of dying, did you still get to use your role?
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One minor, very WIFOMy point against Andrews comes from O'Malley's:
Andrews quickly refutes this, of course; he hadn't actually made such a slip. The reason this is interesting is it makes more sense for O'Malley to be confused if he had reason to believe Andrews had slipped, because Andrews was scum, than if Andrews was town.
Uh. Excal lied about me, which makes us more likely to be scumbuddies? Huh? Maybe I'm missing something, but the only way that looks bad for me is if scum are more likely to post specious arguments against each other than against town. That's kinda back-asswards.
More seriously we have the end of day 3. Here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105987.html#msg105987) he strongly implies Hayles will be top of his scumlist; then here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106083.html#msg106083), no mention of Hayles at all, he's on Handley, with the added irony that it's for dropping his case on his #1 suspect.
What I said before on Kyle before stands, but his contributions in Day 3 have been mostly solid; the only one I can find a hole to poke in is his most recent post, which is one very abbreviated case on Ethan's play over the entire game, followed by a list of "hey you, say something" lines. Reading townier than he was before, but there's only so much a day of good play can do to erase two days of bad.
Nathan: Gotta agree with the crowd here; the only substantive analysis he's done is on roles. Getting bogged down in flavor and roles is a problem the whole game has had, to one degree or another, but he's been the worst. I can't knock him for posting frequency or shallowness of content, just the focus of that content but it's something.
..and now I'm getting yelled at to get my ass out the door. More later tonight or early tomorrow morning (gotta be on the road by eightish), probably on Hayles from the way things are going.
I said I'd probably put together a post about Hayles, because he was gathering votes. Never said he was my top suspect. Kyle still looked worst to me; I said Day 2 that I'd vote for him over Pietro and Hellsnake both if it stood a chance of making any difference, and noted in that post that everything I said about him on Day 2 stood. Like I said in the subsequent wall-o-text about Kyle, when I read more, I still found him to look scummier than anyone else, and devoted what little time and sanity I had to putting together a case against him. Yes, I ended up as the only one voting him, but when I made that post, there were two votes on Ethan to my one on Kyle. That's not exactly an overwhelming majority.
End of day 4 also looks bad; Andrews umms and aahs about O'Malley right up to here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106575.html#msg106575), before finally voting him very late on.
Given the choice between somebody I'd suspected since Day 1 and somebody who had only gathered serious suspicion that day, it was a tough choice to give up on my long-standing desire to see Sopko swing and instead lynch somebody else. How does this not make sense? My "umms and aahs" about O'Malley were one post where I laid out what I saw as the evidence for his scumminess, another post where I said I'd probably vote for him but I wanted to be sure and make the decision while awake (again, didn't want to give up on Sopko just like that; can you blame me?), and a third post where, hey, I voted for him like I said I probably would. Also, if I'm scum, that was an opportunity to tie up Kyle and Excal and potentially send the game into 5:3 LYLO the next day, just by voting for somebody I'd been pushing to lynch since Day 2, and had been suspicious of since my first post.
On nightkills:
The reason not to fastkill anyone tonight if we mislynch is simple: from all evidence, today we have five townies alive and two scum. The only way to go from 5:2 to a loss is if three townies die and no scum do. That's one from the mislynch, one from the slowkill and one from the fastkill. If there's no fastkill tonight, we are mathematically certain to live to lynch another day.
...but now, working it out again, I see where my mistake was in that list of contingencies. If we mislynch today and tomorrow, we lose anyway, and the fastkill can't save us. With 3:2 alive, if we mislynch it becomes 2:2, and even if the nightkill hits scum, the slowkill (presumably) kicks in and makes it 1:1 the next day.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
... with that math, yes, it seems that killing when a town bites it today isn't particularly in town's interest unless I surely hit scum. But... hrn. I've been keeping that "pLYLO that favours town" in my head too much.
Right, amendment: I'll act on Samuel if Nikolai flips town. Samuel, confirm you can protect yourself. I'm willing to take my gamble with your curse not shafting town.
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Yes, confirmed. I don't like being this public about what's going to happen, but sure.
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"Jeez, so many words and so little point to all of 'em.
Mei-Fan, it comes down to this. If you're confident about your case, then you do whatever the hell you feel like. The longer we sit arguing this, the more time scum gets to throw in bad ideas.
Nikolai finally showed up, but his post was just role setup speculation with no original analysis and a promise of yet another reread. Add the whole 'go ahead, lynch me' ethic he seems to be letting off, and it's coming to mind that maybe he's sitting back relying on that mysterious X of his.
As for his buddy...I suppose with all this playing up of the mysterious X Hargreaves looks rather bad, but after this docproof claim I could probably believe an Andrews scumbuddy as well. Hargreaves/Andrews...unlikely, but given everyone else is clear it's about the only thing that I'm willing to believe if Nikolai doesn't flip scum.
We can sit here arguing about who Mei-Fan should kill until we're blue in the face, but by now I think every possibility's been brought to the table. No point bickering over it now when we've already got all the information we'll have to work with, so I say we just run with finding scum. When this is all over and done with, I'm fine with voting Nikolai any time."
((Cut by more discussion. No complaints with the shooting Hargreaves plan.))
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EBWOP: Actually, if the discussion's over now:
Unvote, Vote: Nikolai
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You're right. It makes the most sense if Mei-Fan figures out who, if anyone, to go for herself. ##Unvote, ##Vote| Nikolai Kolmogorov
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##Unvote, ##Vote: Nikolai Kolmogorov, in case that didn't count. Derp.
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Late to notice the hammer, I was off at a GOOD CHRISTIAN CHURCH not some HEATHEN PAGAN RITE like SOME PEOPLE here. Flip to come shortly.
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Final votecount.
Nikolai Kolmogorov [4]: Jack Daniels, Gershom Bike, Nathan Greaves, Samuel Hargreaves
Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche) [ 0]: Samuel Hargreaves
SnowFire [1]: Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche), Samuel Hargreaves, Nathan Greaves
---
"Feller from Manchester just got back to us. They found Handley's actual abode. Interesting place, it seems." Deputy Webster stood with the telegram in his hand. "Seems... seems he moved around a lot. And met with a bunch of shady characters, but also some politicians? Guess he wasn't lying about being a merchant of information. Weirder thing is, it looks like he was a Kraut! Spent a lot of his childhood in America, which explains the lack of accent, I guess. But he had a giant portrait of, whasshisface, von Bismarck in his home, along with a big portrait of Jesus and another of Caesar. Then he's got this even bigger portrait of the great Kyle Handley! He was a strange one. So, uh, any ideas on who killed him?"
Sheriff Hutchison just sighed. "I've taken to not even observing the discussion & interrogation sessions. Every time I poke my head in, it just sounds stranger. The novelist fellow's started babbling in Chinese, Gershom's acting like he knows everything Moses did, the journalist claims to be working for a secret society out of Chicago... the only sane one seems the Russkie. He at least keeps quiet."
As if on cue, veterinarian Hargreaves poked his head out the door. "We're finished, sir! Got done early! The Russian Kolmogorov, he's gotta be guilty!"
---
Strangely enough, Kolmogorov did not seem overly troubled by the rope being placed around his neck. "My faith sustains me. The old-time faith! We Russians, we know something about the afterlife. It's like pi or e, humanity keeps on expanding indefinitely, deeper and deeper into the spiral of the galaxy... I can sing a song about it, if you like."
Reverend Jones ignored the crazed ramblings and said his brief invocation. The handle was pulled, and once more the thud- the crack - the shattering explosion? Shards of some glass or crystal flew about the base of the gallows as a here-to-fore unseen pendant hanging around his neck exploded. No one was hurt, though people with a good view could have sworn the pendant glowed an unearthly blue as it exploded.
Dr. Gottlieb took the event in good humor. "A little prank played on us by the departing mathematician! Vonderful! Well, he's definitely dead. Let me take the body away. Fellow sounds familiar, but can't really place it."
Nikolai Kolmogorov, Town Miller Rolecop (?) Self-Reviver, was lynched! (Returns 'scum' to sane cops and 'town' to insane cops. Can rolecop others, though warned results can be flaky. If killed normally or lynched, returns to play on the next Day.)
It is now Night 5. You have 24 hours to submit your orders.
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Nathan Greaves Guest Report - Special Edition
Today's executed suspect was Nikolai Kolmogorov, a quiet Russian mathematician. I don't know why, but seeing him hang somehow inspired me to write a little something about the whole investigation. Hopefully it'll lighten the mood in the midst of all this, well, killing.
First Ty got the lynch, and that was bad,
He flipped as Townie, we'd been had,
Then Billy got the lynch, it sealed his doom
'cause the roach in his head made him KABOOM.
Who's next?
Ethan got the lynch, but don't you grieve
'cause he was dreaming (I believe)
Seamus got the lynch, but have no fears
The cultists won't arrive for at least five years.
Who's next?
Then Ronald Dale claimed that he
Was really a woman openly
Plus Andrews cannot be docced, that's right,
Don't even try to help him tonight.
Who's next?
Ruskie's finally been lynched too
Could have worked with you-know-who
So, Nikolai goes to hang
Leaves us all with a bang
The Russian's a dead man, says the quack
But Snowfire's said 'You're gonna get him back'.
Who's next?
Kyle would have had to pay
But Dale shot him yesterday
We'll try to stay relaxed and cool
When Bike drops from the player pool
Who's next?
Who's next?
Who's next?
Who's next? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FgMTAj4f_o)
-
Marbury was somewhat prepared for Gershom's eventual breakdown. The hunted look in his eyes, his strange appearance in town, his warnings that his time here was short... when he strode in in the morning ranting, it was not entirely a surprise.
"I understand now. You! I'll not be their slave! No, there has to be a way out... I won't accept this... not again... I'll take oblivion over that... damn it.... on my own terms, and no!"
Rather than jumping into a lake, the younger Bike opted merely to put a revolver to his head, then pull the trigger.
Tragic, but as noted, not a surprise. Obviously the Bike family was not entirely stable.
What WAS a surprise was the new visitors who showed up, walking down the road from the Sanitarium. A new visitor... who looked... strangely like Nikolai Kolmogorov? Even wearing the same clothes as him?
The stranger quickly moved to explain himself to Sheriff Hutchison.
"Здравствуйте, товаришь! I'm Nikolai Kolmogorov, and I heard about the execution you held yesterday, and I need to clear some things up about the whole deal, and the sooner the better. See, what you need to do is change the name on the execution slips and the записы. You see, the person you executed was not the real Nikolai Kolmogorov - rather, you managed to execute my impostor instead."
Sheriff Hutchison would have responded with a stream of expletives had the incident occurred a week earlier, but by now he was resigned to the strangeness. "Uhhhhhh... go on."
"Nick Koupitoris...is the name familiar to you at all? No? Well, let me fill you in on the details~ He was supposed to be committed to the insane asylum y'all have here, but he somehow managed to escape! And since then he came here to this town and got a job at the inn and wreaked some havoc. I've heard rumours of this all happening here, and thus I, uh, I decided to come down here to check up on this Koupitoris fellow - just got here this morning, Это я удачно зашёл, so to speak. I'm not quite in the mood to have my name blackened from the crimes he committed in my name, and commit crimes he certainly seems to have done. He definitely should have been sent to the Sanitarium for all society's safety. And I'm certainly not him! A miserable failure like that... stuck as a cook working for his unimaginative brother... нет, нет, нет, I'm far too talented to be sentenced to a fate like that. Well, it's too bad he died, but at least now his legacy can be buried forever. Ну, да, "Nick" is dead, now only Nikolai lives! Ha ha!"
The response was silence.
"Uh... sorry, didn't mean to speak ill of the dead. So, uh, I assume there's a vacancy now at Rosie's Inn? Perhaps I could resume his duties of playing the piano there? I'll be far better than that impostor, I guarantee you."
--
The next visitors to Marbury weren't as strange as the new Nikolai, at least. They simply bore strange tidings. A woman in her late 50s, along with a younger couple, introduced herself to Sheriff Hutchison.
"Ruth Smith. Ruth Bike Smith to be more clear, I suppose. This is my son, Jonah, and his wife, Hannah. We got the telegram... it's a bit of a hassle, but we figured we owed it to him to collect the body and bring it back to Arkham. Moses was a professor there and lived there for a number of years, you know. He still has some old friends there that will come out to his funeral. It's a shame about my brother's madness... I wonder what came over him."
Sheriff Hutchison commiserated with her and shared some small talk before steeling himself for the next part of the conversation. "Then you know Gershom already arrived here, then? I have bad news about him as well, I'm afraid."
Ruth looked puzzled. "Gershom? Who's that?"
--
Moses's younger brother (?) Gershom Bike, Vanilla Town, went insane and shot himself!
Actually Nick Koupitoris, delusional Greek cook, Town Miller Rolecop (?) Self-Reviver, was the one lynched last night!
The "real" Nikolai Kolmogorov has joined the town? Who wasn't around before, right, so couldn't be a criminal?
It is Day 6. It is LYLO, so there is no deadline (technically potential LYLO, but.... yeah.). With 6 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch.
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Dangnabbit. How fuckin' ridiculous.
Hoo. Okay. So, Nikolai's cleared. And it's a dang good thing we done lynched him, cuz now the possible scum pool is smaller. This does beg the question, however, of why Hargreaves was so dang skiddish 'bout lynchin' the feller. If you KNEW he was a self-reviver, why, the only negative consequences we wouldda had from lynchin' him would-a been to cull down the pool o' suspects. Granted, the last time Nikolai was on the block, we ended up lynchin' scum instead, so this infermation comin' out now ain't that bad. But... from the sounds o' it, if Nik had gotten hisself slowkil't the revival would have gone out the shitter. Guess it were a good thing he played so scummy that scum would have had no reason to kill 'im.
I want to hear about the results of all the goin's on last night before I weigh in any further.
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Ok. But you're not going to like it.
The presence came and sought me out last night. It was angry, it was scared, but far from being calmed by me, on seeing me it became outraged. It began to lash out mentally, speaking of "purging" and "cleansing", and in a flash of insight I realised that it was not the protective being I had thought at all, but my enemy, and not only that, but the enemy of all townsfolk. Whether through accident or malice it had come to perceive its residents as practitioners of evil, and it would not stop until they were destroyed.
It was old, and wise, but I am not without some skill, though this battle cost me dear. Still, I retained - barely - my sanity. In the end I resorted to the oldest trick in any kind of battle - an ambush. I let it think my mind was weak, offered up a part of myself, let it think it could possess me, and then bam! Closed the door, leaving it trapped in that small compartment. Rather than it controlling me, I would now control it.
It was conflicted, actually, so twisted and misguided its thoughts that I almost felt sorry for it. While it struggled to purge the unclean, another part of itself retained the illusion that it was doing this for the town, that it was the servant of the townsfolk. As such, it would only attack those who were second in the town's voting, and the decision on whether to kill would remain in my hands. It would cover me with its mantle, that of the righteous who had done its bidding centuries ago, when it really had protected Marbury - only this time, two conflicted parts of it were both sure of what its champion used to be called, so I would appear both as Town Cop and Town Vigilante.
...Yeah. I can only assume Dale is now Counsellor, as that's the only remotely sane thing to have happened. I'm honestly not sure what to think about alignments; this makes more sense as an SK-type role than anything else (not that it makes a lot of sense there), in which case Dale is now harmless (3P, maybe survivor but no killing power) and not worth wasting our time on over scum. ##Vote: SnowFire, full analysis to be done after work, but I figured I'd better get this out here.
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As to why I didn't want to lynch Nikolai, I thought he'd be extremely useful in the 4-player LYLO we seemed likely to end up in. Scum would break cover to lynch him, thinking they'd won, then he'd come back and give us the victory.
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Mm. I was expecting you to come back and tell me that he had come back to you as just a reviver, but this rationale satisfies me all the same, believe it or not.
There's... an unspecified number of variables I want set in stone before I say more, so I'll wait to pipe up more. Considerin' it's 2AM my time now, and I got an exam at 12:30-2:30 tomorrah, this probably won't come for another 12 hours. By then I should be ready to toss my weight around.
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oh god damn it. blah blah blah last posts blah blah blah post before me wrong account etc etc etc
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Mei-Fan Chen;
I've become depressed and will die tonight.
Sam, are you 100% sure this is everything that has happened tonight? No other cryptic messages? Something peculiar happened to me tonight unrelated to role switching shenanigans.
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"OK...so. Nikolai's clear, Daniels is clear, Dale is almost definitely not scum with a killing role like that, and I know for a fact I'm Town. Therefore the only thing that makes sense to me right now is a Hargreaves/Andrews scumpair. What is it those detectives always call it? Process of elimination?
##Vote: Samuel Hargreaves, but really I'm fine with pushing for either of 'em today."
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SK role-switching what is this I don't even madness is threatening to scramble what's left of my brain. But the process of elimination is pretty simple. Jack's town. Nikolai's town. I'm town. If Bard is scum SnowFire is getting punched. That leaves Hargreaves and Regular Greaves as the only possible options, which I must admit plays into my doctors-are-evil delusion nicely.
But then we have this latest development, and it potentially makes my head explode in a completely different way. Eagerly awaiting a full explanation from RonBardFen on what in the Sam Hill happened last night, and confirmation on whether his power really does work like that.
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At lunch.
Dale: Huh? Obviously I don't know everything that happened, but that was it from my perspective; I covered myself, and got this switching. Wasn't even given a role result on myself outside of that, though possibly that qualifies. I assume that was you targeting me, potentially you're also dying as a result of that (in which case you keeping your original role would also make a certain level of sense)? Guess we'll have to see if anyone else claims.
If you really are dying, care to tell us what your win condition was, and any other hints that might be useful? (Of course assuming you're 3P there's no reason you'd to want to help town any more than scum, so I'm not sure how much use anything you say will be, but you've got nothing to lose at this point by telling us, so I figure it's worth asking).
Greaves: would be nice if you'd think about your voting. This game has thrown plenty of surprises at us and I'm sure we're not done yet, so even when it looks like you've found a definite scumpair (which, for what it's worth, looks to be yourself and Andrews from where I'm standing), it's important to vote for the one who's actually scummiest. I don't like you taking an easy excuse to vote while giving no real reasons, though I can't be sure that's thought's not OMGUS-tinted.
Andrewsninja but my lunchbreak is ending.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
On the matter of my alignment: Let's just say I have Town's best interest at heart and from the start of the game have targeted scummy targets because I wanted Town to win. I win with Town.
Now then. The results of tonight are as follows: Samuel Hargreaves is scum. He deflected my kill but not my Cop investigation which points to a decidedly scum result.
I was told someone had manipulated things from the darkness, but that I didn't care because I'd be out of this mess soon enough. Chrono Leaping isn't very interesting anyway: yes, I'm a time traveler and apparently possessed the body of Ronald Dale in what I can only assume to be a very mistaken experiment. I just hope that my depression will just make me return to my own time, in what is hopefully a peaceful resolution to the Marbury incidents.
I've figured out the meaning of November 1st as well: the last possible date for definitive and unequivocal LYLO to come about. So don't fear that date.
In summation:
Samuel Hargreaves returned as Scum to my investigative result. I was not informed of anything regarding role switching aside from the flavour mention that I have begun blocking out visions from that disgusting pigdog capitalistic freak Ronald Dale. (insults by yours truly and unrelated to flavour)
Whether that indicates I have lost my Vigilante Power or not, I definitely attacked tonight and definitely Copped Samuel as Scum.
PLEASE NOTE: I would also get Third-Party results and was explicitly told that Ronald Dale, my alter ego, is controlled by me and alignment would be inferred from ME and not my alter ego. I suspect this is the case with Samuel as well, so that there is little argument in his evil benefactor being Scum or some such and would suggest a course of action involving a noose around his neck and preferably a snapping sound to be solicited from his throat.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Let me also add that the following results were given throughout the game:
Peyton Hadley was town.
Pietro Giovanni was town.
Chad was DEFINITELY TOWN.
Kyle was town.
I have the guarantee of being neither a randocop nor a naive cop, but possibly sane, insane or paranoid.
Given that none of my previous investigation results flipped as scum I have reasonable grounds to believe my investigation is that of a sane Cop, and further the fact that Samuel had nothing hinting at becoming a Miller indicates he must've been scum all along. If he is: congratulations, I truly thought you were town and if not for this investigation would definitely not have called for your lynch.
I also saw no roleclaims for Miller for what it's worth, so yeah! I dunno if you're going to claim that now, though...
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Well. Okay then. Either Bard's lying or Hargreaves is. The two claims aren't even remotely compatible, plus the whole scum result on Hargreaves thing. Very tempted to call for Hargreaves' lynch. I admit I'm wondering if maybe he could be telling the truth about the limitations on the role, which would make it almost believable, in this Role Madness game, for the kill to have been in scum hands all along. Only being able to target that #2 votegetter would keep them from slaughtering town with impunity, because they'd have to keep their own scummy selves out of that spot first. But two things don't sit right with that idea: first, why not kill on night 3? Obviously it wouldn't have done the scum any good, because Nikolai would come right back to life - but the only way they would know that is with a rolecop, and that leads me right back to Scum Hargreaves. The other question is how Bard would have used the power on Samuel "I got no votes at all yesterday" Hargreaves in the first place.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Samuel must have known he'd appear scum to my investigation. Or he was praying for naive Cop, I don't know.
I'm not limited in my killing as far as I know. And I know very little of it, given that my role is only Cop according to the role PM.
Whoever I investigate is attacked. I have no limitation as to who I investigate: I could investigate myself if I felt so inclined.
What I do know is that Hargreaves' actions make no sense from a scum point of view: why keep Nikolai alive given they knew N1 that he was a self-reviver? Was it for massive town credit, or something?
Why corroborate my story on Day 5? Did he misjudge his chances of lynching me or something? I'm not sure.
But my result seems fairly open to me, and nothing from Hargreaves' behaviour indicates he anticipated my result to turn up "scum". It's either a very well-played scum gambit, or a townie suddenly becoming miller without being told. Or, of course, he is told in mysterious flavour ways and Snowfire decided not to add that in which case I will ##VOTE: Snowfire.
Moses said Hargreaves knew scum's secret, though. And on being asked to reveal ALL flavour he just completely roleclaimed and gave all his results.
Curiously he withheld Nikolai's role. Why? He continuously hinted Nikolai had a useful role that was in town's best interest not to reveal, SO WHY DIDN'T SCUM KILL HIM? IT MAKES NO SENSE. WIFOM, yes, I know.
It's been bothering me all game and I'm sure it played into the consideration that Nikolai must be scum.
Yesterday it was potential LYLO, today is definitive LYLO. Had I actually killed someone, would I have caused the game to end? Would scum have won?
Is this why Hargreaves pressured me yesterday that I "will have to make a decision under quick pressure" and then suddenly Nathan hammers out of nowhere and effectively ends the day? I almost vigged Nathan tonight, but I decided to stick to what I had publicly posted I would do so as to not cause any confusion if something untoward would happen to me.
I don't know if I can vig tonight. But if we're lynching Sam and he turns up scum, I am very inclined to target Nathan.
However way you slice it I can't reconcile Sam's behaviour as strictly scummy, but it's not strictly pro-town in how awfully vague some things look in hindsight.
Not to mention Nathan immediately going for Sam "by process of elimination" at LYLO. Why would you do that unless you expected the Cop to get a scum result? It's more strange that Day 5 he says "Lol I'd lynch you BUT THANKS TO HARGREAVES I WON'T!" and then follow it up with "oh btw I think Hargreaves/Andrew is likely scumpair".
... okay, uh, no sense makey there.
In other words, yeah, wouldn't buy any Miller gibberish from Samuel at this point, not comfortable voting until everyone's weighed in and had a word about it.
And read this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg104808.html#msg104808), to confirm that Andrews is going off the wrong end and that I most definitely did not have any restriction regarding my kill pattern. On Night 1, my target couldn't have been Peyton if I had such a restriction placed on me.
Whatever Samuel's role is, it's not mine, I do not believe it and I am comfortable lynching him today and hanging Nathan by the throat tomorrow.
The roleclaim timing was peculiar anyway. "Moses revives!" "LOL OKAY FULL ROLECLAIM and here's a Doctor/Reviver combo on top of our Reviver/Miller combo" "lol my reviver restriction is that I lose doc powers!" ... no.
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You're right, I completely forget that Peyton wasn't getting votes Day 1.
Which makes Hargreaves look even worse, yeah. There's no way the killer was operating under those rules.
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"Well, Hargreaves, if you want reasoning, how about Bike's little riddle about you? 'Hargreaves knows scum's secret'? The only other thing I could think of that made sense for that was your rolecop of Nikolai, but now he's definitely with the Town I can't see any other way to explain it.
As for Andrews, well, he's been lurking a fair bit himself. Docproof is sorta awkward as a role - either there are scum non-docs who would obviously have priority in delivering the hit and therefore the role's pointless, or every member of scum's a doc and Andrews literally can't be killed by scum. Either way, the claim's slightly ridiculous. I already listed general suspicions of him Day 4, and not much has happened to make anyone else look significantly worse.
And Mei-Fan, I said back here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106913.html#msg106913) that if Nikolai flipped Town, Hargreaves/Andrews was the only scumpair that made sense. Unless the forces above ((read: Snowfire)) are really screwing with us, you really are with the Town, and the same applies for Nikolai and Daniels. Plus you've got your facts wrong - it was Hargreaves (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106915.html#msg106915) who dropped the hammer yesterday, not me."
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Regarding my role, I'd appreciate it if Nikolai would confirm my claim, seeing as he hasn't posted since calling me out on day 5.
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Okay, I wrote this up last night after my last post so some of the information is a little outdated.
I am not at all surprised that Bard was the one chosen for the slowkill--he's the only one other than Nikolai (who I'm not even sure scum could have targeted last night) who was basically cleared from being scum, by virtue of the docfather role. (I'd say I'm basically cleared too but Hargreaves still trying to build the case on me yesterday indicates that I'm not clear to absolutely everyone, though I'll certainly go through that argument one final time if I must), and scum killing a non-confirmed townie at this point would have been really stupid and handed town the win. So, moving on!
NATHAN GREAVES is almost CERTAINLY SCUM, and from where I'm standing almost CERTAINLY the person who revived our good friend Gershom/Moses/Jesus/Yahweh/Whatever. Yes, if I'm correct, scum revived town. Keep in mind that, Nathan knew that Nikolai was a rolecop, if an unreliable one. Though this revival took place before Hargreaves took it upon himself to investigate Nathan, he knew that one rolecop existed, who could easily out the revivalist should he have revived a scum role. Moreover, reviving Bike largely cleared Nathan for the next couple of days--just long enough to get us into potential LYLO, and had Nikolai not been a self-reviver, almost certainly have won the game for scum (I assume). A gambit that paid off, if just for a little bit. UNLESS ANYONE ELSE (specifically, Kolmgorov and to an extent Mei Fan Transy) HAS A GOOD REASON NOT TO, ##FOS:Nathan Greaves that will become a vote to lynch when the time is right.
Hargreaves, now. Hargreaves in 85% (Not Xanth here, just kind of estimating that statistic >_>) of all scenarios can't be scum--I have no reason whatsoever to doubt his rolecoppin' abilities (since they have been 100% accurate from what I can tell). Assume he's lying to us just now, and instead of self reviver got back the result that Nikolai was a reviver--if he got that back and was scum, Nikolai would have been killed pretty dang quickly. If he got that back and was town (which I don't believe since there's no reason to lie at this juncture as town), all the more reason to keep him alive. Now, if Hargreaves got back self-reviver, as he's claimed? As town, Hargreaves' explanation makes complete sense, especially since he was right and this revelation coming out now really did help town. As scum? Well, two scenarios there: One, Hargreaves knew that he'd only self revive on a regular kill--all the more reason to slowkill him. Two (the much, much more likely one), Hargreaves only knew that he'd self revive, and had no reassurance that a slowkill would keep a dead dog down, as it were.
We come to that problematic 15%. If Hargreaves only knew he'd self-revive, and didn't know the circumstances of that self revival... then that gives scum a really good reason not to slowkill. Why waste a kill and make things easier for town? It may also give Hargreaves a dang good motive for voting Ethan Hayles to get lynched instead of Kolmgorov, ESPECIALLY considering Kolmgorov's lurking was looking like it was going to get him modkilled (and almost assuredly not revived) at several points during this game.
Do I buy into this scenario? Well... (at this point I've begun writing after reading what's happened) given Mei Fang's investigation coming back scum on Hargreaves? Given both of the pair were the ones who dropped the hammer pretty quickly together (less than 10 minutes within eachother)? Given Hargreaves was trying to build a case against a nigh-confirmed townie earlier? Kinda.
I want to do a re-read of Andrews (and go over Xanth's scumpair theorizing again), since he's the only one who could possibly be scum if Hargreaves ain't, and Bard's assertion's aside I'm not 100% on the whole Hargreaves thing. I'm certainly sold on Greaves being scum, but I also don't like the killing power being potentially in scum's hands (if Hargreaves IS scum we have no reason to trust his "I can only kill the person with the second most votes" malarky). However, I've got more pressing priorities at the moment, soooo yeah.
I'm very comfortable dropping Greaves like so much gravy, and depending on how looking back at Andrews goes I might be good with dropping Hargreaves as well. HG certainly looks a lot scummier in retrospect but we're at LYLO and I want to be sure.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
I really wish Bike had had the time to clarify if he could act on the night he "died"... it'd be sure nice if I could VIG THAT DESPICABLE NATHAN GREAVES tonight and we can lynch Hargreaves today and either saunter into a new dawn or uh, well, start praying to our new Overlord.
I don't think I need to re-state I hate Greaves' play this entire game and how I would've lynched him ages ago if it wasn't for revivalist role and the seemly sound "lol revive town" ability.
If HG+Nathan scumteam though, they knew Kolmogorov was a roleCop so possibly──not to mention it gave massive town cred, no? It seems a little too rehearsed, especially given that Hargreaves says Greaves is a Doctor, and Greaves triumphantly remarks he can't Doctor anymore! ... which I don't see the added value in.
Down with a Greaves AND Hargreaves lynch. Most comfortable with the latter due to lolCop, but the former due to LOLGUT and ARGUMENTS.
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Votecount.
SnowFire [1]: Samuel Hargreaves
Samuel Hargreaves [1]: Nathan Greaves
Bard phrased his vote in the conditional, so I will ignore it as it turns on claimed hidden information that I have no intention of confirming nor denying.
It is Day 6 - October 31, 1928, Hallow's Eve. It is LYLO, so there is no deadline. With 6 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch.
--
"Looks like it's startin' to rain, dearie," called out the newly rejoined member of the town Mary Cress. A slight drizzle had started, and grey clouds were slowly moving in from the horizon.
Her husband Jeb, who looked unusually strong despite his years, agreed. "Yup. I gather it'll be thunderin' an' lightnin' before long, too. Probably start up by around night-time. Aye, less common than the spring storms, but fall storms can be pretty impressive. Leastaways we won't have to worry about them Order of Unseen Wisdom settin' fires tonight! Yeah, there's gonna be some changes around here and how that stone altar in the mountains gets used. SAZGA-RUL ENUSHIGIKAL. Have fun keeping a fire going in a raging thunderstorm like we're gonna see tonight! Why, it's positively a cause for cheer."
Mary smiled.
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I was about to ask why on earth 3P!Dale would lie to get me killed, but then it hit me: maybe he really has been hit by the slowkill. In which case, his only chance to win (assuming a vaguely survivor-type role) is if we mislynch today and give scum the win tonight, before he dies.
But. But, assuming that, there's no way left for us to lynch scum today, short of some townies convincing Dale they're scum so that he'll vote with them. Which would be a hilarious path to victory, but not one I see much odds in at this stage.
So I'll put that aside and assume - hope, even - that Dale must, somehow, be scum. (And in case it's not clear, yes, he is lying, because I'm not a miller of any sort, but more than that, Dale was never a cop, he just looked that way). I can't guess why he didn't kill night 3, and to try and reason anything based on scum actions is pure WIFOM; maybe he felt they didn't need to at that stage, and not going for it would add confusion. Maybe the scumteam felt Nikolai was scummy enough that he would attract a lynch and was therefore more use to them alive than dead - in which case, after all, it worked. As for targeting me, assuming SnowFire didn't count yesterday was a unanimous Nikolai lynch, which I guess gave him a free choice of everyone for "second-placed lynch candidate". Night 1 Peyton must've misunderstood where the flavour said the kill he deflected was aimed; it wouldn't be the first time.
Dale, I corroborated your story because it lined up with my role result on you - as you presumably prepared it to. (Flavour arguments lolwhat, but this time traveller thing doesn't really fit in with the Cthulu theme, so I'm guessing it's your own rather than the mod's, but that's beside the point really). The mention that you "will have to make a decision under quick pressure" was an attempt to be diplomatic in saying that I didn't trust you to reason it out yourself (and don't get me wrong, it is hard to get these things right, I had to run it through about five times before I reached what I thought was the correct conclusion), but then I realised given Meme Mafia it was better to just leave it to you and hope it came out right. If Kolmogorov had been town but not full-resurrected (which seemed a possibility, I didn't know whether he would be really alive or roleless/voteless, see Callahan's flip and Greaves' claim) and you'd misvigged last night then that would've been game over, so it was potentially a vital decision. I imagine you will get to kill tonight, if that really is still your role, given that we know Bike got a night 2 action. I can't argue about happening to investigate Greaves the same night he revived; coincidences happen.
As to me knowing scum's secret, there's one very easy solution: the presence I felt, the one that thought it was watching over the town, was in fact scum. Maybe it goes further than that, and the scumteam are the higher echelons of whatever organisation within the military was backing me up, Marbury is their town, the presence their own supernatural guardian, and for some reason now they've turned on the ordinary citizens.
Given SnowFire's evasiveness, I'm almost willing to believe this all just more madness. Almost. But why would Dale be going to so much effort to consider the possibility that I'm clear if he really had a cop scum result on me? Why would he dance around his alignment like that, if he really were town or even neutral? Why would he make this big fuss about Nov 1 and then drop it? Why would he get his roleclaim backwards, claiming that he's now Mei-Fan and blocking Dale, but this would mean that he was losing his Vig power and his Cop one still worked, when if his role were really what he claimed it would be the opposite?
Nope. Not buying it. You're either scum or you're 3P but siding with them, and in the later case all is lost already. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Roland Dale, or whatever his real name is.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Ahahaha yeah that seals it. Not even bothering to claim my result is wrong and try to throw suspicion onto me. Rich.
I'll humour your response so none of the town falls into your trap. TL;DR ahead, you can skip this if you don't buy Hargreaves' story anyway. If you think there's some credibility, read on, it's worthless rubbish.
1) I'm not a third party. I'm not scum. I'm Town. Have been since the start of the game and will remain until the end of the game. And even if I was a third party, I prefer victory aligned with town any day. A third-party Cop-Vigilant? Please. That's too ridiculous. If Snowfire had given me that role he'd be an incredible bastard mod and I can't believe you're going for that.
2) I was never a Cop? That's interesting, given that you said you had two role results for me. Besides, if I was never a Cop, please explain to me why I would have such nigh-unerring faith in Peyton Hadley from Night 1 onward, wavering only to question his alignment on basis of role, citing no reason to pursue the case with vigour because I saw no other faults? Why would I pay close attention to the Miller flip and cite it immediately to shut down Hayles' poor attempt at a Cop claim?
3) See bullet point 2 regarding "Peyton must have mistaken it". Remember how he said he had lost bulletproof status? I refer to the flip (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106767.html#msg106767), specifically wording it as the first nightkill attempt against him would fail. Even if he guarded someone with his Bodyguard ability, I doubt it'd count as an attack against him, since I'd be attacking someone else.
4) Why would I go to so much effort to consider the possibility that you're clear? Because this is role madness, and you claimed you'd get cursed. Moreover, your play has been pretty good in my eyes and, yes, I would've only want to lynch you because of Martin's story about Docproof and there coincidentally being two Doctor-like roles.
Why would I dance around my alignment? Because I was hoping that scum wouldn't bother with a claimed third-party until lategame, and town wouldn't need to worry about a third-party who was clearly on their side.
November 1 is silly ─ I receive nightly reports each night and I clued together it was just the last possible date the game could still be on-going.
5) I never claimed I was blocking Dale. I was speaking in flavour and roleplay terms of holding back the murderous alter-ego, who is Dale. Mei-Fan is the Cop. This last argument is silly.
In other words, Samuel Hargreaves is confirmed Scum to me. I would've seriously wavered had he tried to play innocent even longer, but there's no doubt now that he's suddenly throwing a ridiculous case against me on the sole assumption I must be third-party.
Where does this idea of a third-party come from? That Nathan Greaves has information indicating a serial killer? Please. He said himself it didn't refer to the role Serial Killer. Why would town need a warning anyway that there's a vigilante out there?
And if I am a third-party, where's the added value in lynching me? I have no idea who are town and who are scum if I was third-party, right? I could hit scum tonight if I was just randomly lobbing my Night Kill at someone, right? Had I lobbed my Night Kill at anyone other than you the game would've ended, and I would've known this -- if I was third party survivor I could've won the game last night and wouldn't stall it until today. And if I'm scum, there's really no reason for me to investigate Peyton, Pietro and Kyle. There wouldn't even be a good reason I'd return "Cop" to your rolecop investigation.
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Exam done, time to pay attention to this.
You know nobody on the town side has any reason to but more weight into one possible lie over another. "Hargreaves is scum!"? "He's lying I'm town he was never a cop!"? Both of those, and all the claims being made on both sides about Dale's roleflavor mean the same amount of nothing to me.
What we do have is some pretty simple logic. SEAMUS O'EXCAL ALREADY FLIPPED DOCFATHER, A ROLE THAT EXPLICITLY STATES THAT HE PROTECTS AGAINST NORMAL NIGHTKILLS. Ergo, if not town, the normal killer MUST BE NOT SCUM, or else I am PUNCHING SNOWFIRE IN THE DICK VERY HARD. And you're throwing this out completely, and "assuming - hoping, even that Dale is scum."
That argument's stupid as hell. So, even assume 3P!Dale aligning himself with scum... you're going to lynch him in LYLO. Instead of lynching scum. After he's claimed a slowkill. A person trying to win the game for town and using their dang head would go after SCUM, even on the chance that Dale gets another night kill, since we'd still be in the game. (Nobody else has claimed the slow kill, so Dale's definitely out tomorrow--hell, only one thing would make me think otherwise at this point, and if that happened, refer back to my point about punching Snow's penis. Even allowing for 1 more fastkill against town, that leaves 1 scum and 2 townies left if we hit scum today.)
Note that this is also the second time you've blatantly ignored what's clearly laid out in the flips in order to build a shoddy case against an otherwise-confirmed not-scum player (revisit how Chad only comes back as "Doctor" to rolecops, so there's no way Scum!Daniels could have known about the miller-removal stuff).
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're done here. I want Nik to weigh in before I drop a vote because unlike some people I'm not going to declare "discussion done!" and then drop the hammer. In the meantime I'll do a token re-read of Andrews but I'm don't think it will matter at this point.
Ninja'd by Dale or whatever he wants to be called, but I've got nothing to add to it.
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Samuel: Okay, now you're resting this theory on the idea that scum used the fastkill and the slowkill against Bike The First on Night 1, and ascribing the entire Docfather role as a massive headfake by SnowFire against town (because the scum would know that the fastkill is on their side). Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Plus as Peyton said in his roleclaim, "But the Mod was very clear that I was the target last night." I'm willing to trust that even without the circumstantial evidence.
Bard: After Nikolai's flip (speaking of, where the hell is the Russkie?), that math doesn't work anymore. Killing a townie last night would just make it 3:2 LYLO today, or 2:2:1 LYLO if you're an ITP. Either way the outcome of the game is not certain, because, as you said yourself, an ITP doesn't know who the scum are, and could still vote with town to lynch one. For that matter, in theory the scum don't know whether or not someone's an ITP, and could vote with town to lynch him. After we lynched Nikolai, there was no way (that I know of!) for the game to end without another day.
Still, at this point I'm willing to trust you over Hargreaves and Plain Greaves without a second thought.
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Oh, and also, total litnerd point, but time travel by projecting one's consciousness into another body in the past or future is the defining feature of The Great Race in the Cthulhu Mythos, so The Dark Secret of RonBardFen's Time-Traveling Adventures In Bastard Moddery fits pretty well with the theme.
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Andrews: Eh, the game still could have ended had Bard killed a townie OTHER than Nikolai and we had mislynched someone else, unless I'm missing something. Would have brought us to 2:2/1:1:2 and it would be over. So, yes, it WAS potential LYLO, just one that was very very unlikely.
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"I'm not a third party. I'm not scum. I'm Town. Have been since the start of the game and will remain until the end of the game. And even if I was a third party, I prefer victory aligned with town any day." Uh, yeah. Wait until now to claim it, and then right back to "I'm town, but even if I wasn't..."
"if I was never a Cop, please explain to me why I would have such nigh-unerring faith in Peyton Hadley from Night 1 onward...". Even if what you're saying is true, you knew you'd appear as a cop to investigations, as I do now, so you would've acted like one as closely as you could.
"Why would I dance around my alignment? Because I was hoping that scum wouldn't bother with a claimed third-party until lategame, and town wouldn't need to worry about a third-party who was clearly on their side." Again, back and forth on your alignment. So you're claiming you're third-party now? Certainly no way I'm believing you're town.
"I never claimed I was blocking Dale. I was speaking in flavour and roleplay terms of holding back the murderous alter-ego, who is Dale. Mei-Fan is the Cop." Buhuh? So the half of your personality that thinks he's an ordinary novelist is the crazy subconscious killer you weren't aware of, and the half of you that thinks he's a time-travelling chinese woman from the future is the perfectly sane cop who you've been fully conscious of all along?
"Why would town need a warning anyway that there's a vigilante out there". That's a point against yourself; given both myself and it seems Greaves were warned something like you existed, it makes a lot more sense if you're not town.
I figured you for third party because I think your role makes even less sense as scum. But as I've said, it doesn't matter; either way you're playing against town at this stage, for whatever reason, so our only hope is to kill you and hope you're actually scum. So if you're saying you're not 3P (back from how you were 3P back at point 4) because 3P!You could've won the game earlier, great - I guess that means you're scum, and we've actually got a chance of winning this. Vote stays.
Daniels ninja. My grounds for going after him whether or not he's 3P was that if he's 3P and playing against town there's no way we can get enough votes to lynch scum anyway, so in that case we've already lost - if he really has the slowkill on him, there's no possible carrot or stick we could offer him to play along with town instead. So there's simply no point worrying about the case where he's 3P.
"SEAMUS O'EXCAL ALREADY FLIPPED DOCFATHER, A ROLE THAT EXPLICITLY STATES THAT HE PROTECTS AGAINST NORMAL NIGHTKILLS. Ergo, if not town, the normal killer MUST BE NOT SCUM, or else I am PUNCHING SNOWFIRE IN THE DICK VERY HARD". Nope, we've already had a bunch of millers when there are no actual cops around, docs on both scum and town sides, and we've been explicitly told that most of the roles are traps; a few posts ago you were saying this is role madness the way you like it.
Forum errors and Andrews ninja but I'd better post at this point.
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Andrews: Eh, the game still could have ended had Bard killed a townie OTHER than Nikolai and we had mislynched someone else, unless I'm missing something. Would have brought us to 2:2/1:1:2 and it would be over. So, yes, it WAS potential LYLO, just one that was very very unlikely.
Yeah, but he's saying he could have ended the game but chose not to in practice, not just in theory. Once we actually got to the night phase, that wasn't possible anymore, so he gets no townie cred for not choosing to end the game when he couldn't actually choose to end the game. Not a huge point, but eh.
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Andrews: Oh, wait, you're saying Bard couldn't have ended it after the flip. Well, then you'd be right.
Andrews read done. Eh, nothing as scummy as Greaves has played, and if we're not lynching Hargreaves or Dale I'd be way more comfortable lynching Greaves than Andrews at this point.
Sam ninja, but . . . yeah, whatever. "I'm going after 3P Dale because if he's proscum we've already lost" neverminding that in this scenario scum would have no reason to join in on a Dale lynch either. Psyduck.
I really want Nikolai to weigh in because there's one thing he could say that would screw up my take on things but if this goes on too much longer it just gives scum more time to confuse the issue.
Andrews ninja. Addressed already.
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Nope, we've already had a bunch of millers when there are no actual cops around, docs on both scum and town sides, and we've been explicitly told that most of the roles are traps
Not the same. Miller in a game with no cops (or none that you can survive being investigated by) is a trap, because claiming it makes you look scummy. Doctor in a game where the scumkill can't be stopped by doctors is a trap, because it leaves you open to scum watchers or the like, and can even end up hurting the people you try to "save" if you have a variant sanity. My role isn't so much a trap as a bottomless pit with hidden pillows at the bottom, but it still counts. Doctor in a game where you're in charge of the standard nightkill is just pointless. It's not a trap because there's no downside for the doc - not even paranoia, after a night or two when it becomes clear that there's only the one fastkill floating around, and, in your situation, the scum own it. No trap.
Also, here's one for you, Hargreaves. If he's 3P, then Greaves and I are scum, right?
Well, I'll vote for whoever the confirmed townies (that is, Jack Daniels and Nikolai Ihaveareallylonglastnameonov) do. Unless it's me...hell, even if it is me. If they both vote for me I'm screwed anyway, right? Might as well race scum for the final hammer.
There, now there's a majority vote with or without Bard, assuming they can agree. Satisfied? Somehow I doubt it.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
oh right russia's still playing. Where is Russia.
Ignoring Hargreaves. Martin and Daniels, hooray!
That leaves one last matter to me.
1: I am Town.
2: Nikolai is Town. Because Self-Revivier.
3: Jack Daniels is Town. Because euphorias, claimed loss of Miller status and Chad's role being completely unknown even to him.
If I get to vig tonight, I'm taking down either Nathan or Martin, assuming you lynch Samuel and he's scum. I trust there are no objections, given that worst-case it'll make Day 7 a 2:1. Right?
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None whatsoever. If the night ends with Jack, Nikolai and one of me or Nathan alive, then we win. Either I'm dead and they lynch the necromancer, or I'm alive and there are no scum standing. Either way works for me.
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Sounds like a plan to me.
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Jeez, I can't stop overthinking this, but let's put the last nail in the coffin of the Bard!Scum idea.
If Bard is scum, then scum did not slowkill last night. The only person who's claimed it is Bard himself, and while Nikolai hasn't posted yet, the way SnowFire wrote his role looks pretty clear to me - he was dead until the start of the day, so he wouldn't be a valid target for night actions. So in this theory either scum killed one of their own (hahahahahano) or they killed nobody.
SO. That means that at the end of Night 6, since there was no slowkill, NO TOWNIES WILL DIE UNLESS THE FASTKILLER KILLS THEM. You know, the killer that you now claim to be, complete with the choice to not kill at all if you don't want to. It's 4:2 now, and if we mislynch, it will be 3:2. With no nightkills, it stays 3:2 and the sun rises on Day 7. A successful vigkill makes it 3:1.
That doesn't sound very True LYLOy to me. In fact, it sounds just as LYLOy as yesterday was - the game ends if we mislynch and a townie gets fastkilled, otherwise play continues. But the mod has today as Really Most Sincerely LYLO, and yesterday as Town-Favored LYLO.
It doesn't work.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Well, even without my NK you'd hit Greaves tomorrow I'd assume from today's input. I just did the math and I *think* it'd be potential LYLO if I could indeed NK, so I'm unsure. But it doesn't matter. I'm fairly sure that Greaves is the last scum.
So the wait's on Nikolai.
At least he doesn't need to bother with that wall of text.
... am I the only one a little annoyed he managed to skirt by mostly lurking and snipe-contributing, promising analysis but never delivering and yet ending up the towniest town among us?
Martin: Your calculations point out to me I won't get to NK either way. Sigh.
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Daniels: not "I'm going after 3P Dale because if he's proscum we've already lost". I'm ignoring the case of 3P Dale and assuming Scum Dale, because if he's 3P proscum we've already lost.
Andrews: uh... sure, if we can convince Daniels and Nikolai to agree to vote for you, I'm willing to vote for you too, and if you'll do it that gives us a majority. Not quite sure where you're going with this, nor that I trust you to keep your word when it comes down to it, but I'll certainly be willing to try.
Andrewsninja: Bard seems to think he still has a fastkill, and maybe he really does.
Mei-Fan, if you so wish: No, you're not the only one annoyed about that from Nikolai. So much for roles being minor and the game being all about good old-fashioned scumhunting, but nothing we can do about that at this stage.
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Daniels: not "I'm going after 3P Dale because if he's proscum we've already lost". I'm ignoring the case of 3P Dale and assuming Scum Dale, because if he's 3P proscum we've already lost.
Yeah, but that's kinda like assuming that I have six legs. Assuming doesn't make it possible.
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Eh, I was miffed at Nik's play, but frankly Nikolai playin' so scummy-like may have just won the game fer us. Not that it excuses it at all. But had Nik played that way all game then come around today and joined in the discussion by this point I would be more inclined to write it off as a strategy.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
This doesn't appear to be the case though. Oh well, I've enjoyed this game despite the numerous times I've gone "WHAT!" over the ridiculous role claims.
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Huh. Hmm. A good chunk of this doesn't make any sense, because of the sheer amount of confirmeds. I'm confirmed. I'm *pretty sure* Jack Daniels isn't Scum, for a number of reasons I've gone on about already. Greaves being Scum would be pretty baffling, is a distinct possibility, but so unlikely that I'd sooner start singing in Portugese than think it to be real. If Dale/Mei-Fan Chen is Scum then I will punch SnowFire. That leaves Andrews and Hargreaves. The problem is that Hargreaves has been playing very Pro-Town and very much against Scum's win condition for the entire game, and Andrews... process of elimination, yet at the same time it makes sense for there to be at least one useful bulletproof in this goddamned Town.
Still trying to process what in the heck happened to Hargreaves, that is baffling and seems to almost read like a mafia slowkill, exept that Dale/Mei-Fan Chen ALSO claims to have been hit by the Mafia Slowkill. What in the name of processed cheese?
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Oh, and regarding Andrews, what he posted here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106885.html#msg106885) was fully and completely correct - this is actually why I went from considering him to be potential Scum to deciding against it, because he admitted full role details in such an open manner without hiding anything, which makes me err on the side of "he's a pro-Town role that's an actually useful" bulletproof in this setup.
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Mei-Fan Chen;
... ... you have got to be kidding me.
Okay, Nikolai, why is it so unlikely that Greaves be scum?
And while we're at it, Nikolai, why would "I got Town Cop and Town Vigilante as roles" equate to "possibly slowkill"?
I... what. Just... What? Capital W?
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@Daniels: I will need a moment to think about this mess. Admittedly, Greaves as Scum is plausible. Him bringing back Bike from the dead was a low-risk task for him, considering it would largely clear him in the eyes of everyone, including Bike (plus it seems that Bike was on the wrong path for most of this game, actually). On the other hand, I'm not fully convinced of Greaves's Scumminess to the point where I'd vote him, at least not yet. The reason being...
I'm still not sure about the Mei-Fan Chen/Samuel Hargreaves pair. Chen better not be Mafia, or else I am punching Snow, for the reasons of LOL GIVING MAFIA TWO NIGHTKILLS IS BAD, at the same time, this business of Bard claiming to not actually have it stated in his role PM that he was a vig is somewhat baffling and I'm not convinced that he's telling the full truth here.
Furthermore, see above for my issue with Hargreaves-Scum: even if I were going to self-revive, why would Hargreaves strongly argue for Hayles' (i.e. a fellow SCUM's) lynch D3 over mine? Not even that, he merely did not want me to be lynched, for very strong reasons - and I find the reason he stated quite plausible (for the record, my reason as to why ideally not getting lynched is preferrable to getting lynched is that lynching Scum is preferrable to lynching me. However, lynching me is preferrable to lynching any other Townie, so yeah), which further complicates what I think of him.
I did a reread of Hargreaves earlier today. As I said earlier, the problem with me seeing him as Scum is that he has been playing very strongly against Scum's win condition and very strongly for Town's the entire game, both in who he rolecopped, when/how he outed them, and his voting patterns the entire game.
Speaking of voting patterns! I find it interesting that Nathan Greaves was all over the place D1, and on myself D3. He counters this by starting the Seamus O'Excal wagon D4, though, which gives him some minor points in my book (keep in mind though that Excal started Ethan Hayles' wagon on the other hand, though, so that probably means a lot less in this game than usual. This game seems to be a tad on the busfest side).
The one thing that doesn't seem to add up is why would Scum have a resurrective role, on top of the Docfather and whatever it is the Psychologist does?
Hmm. Going to have to go over Bardale now. Not sure where my suspicions stand at all at the moment, sadly.
Ninja Bard:
Why Greaves is so unlikely to be Scum? Okay, I revised that - him resurrecting Bike is far more of a null tell than I had ever expected. I'm still not sure, though.
Possibly slowkill? I probably should have never thrown that out there, that was mostly me thinking aloud solely based off of the flavour that Hargreaves gave at the beginning of today. Also, and this is interesting: when did I implicate you in the slowkill? I merely stated that I thought that Hargreaves might have been hit with the Mafia Slowkill, ON TOP OF you attempting to stab him last night. So....um, what gives?
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Mei-Fan Chen;
... Because Hargreaves claimed today he got my role. That of Town Cop and Town Vigilante. That's... what I thought you referred to. I thought you'd already read the thread. My mistake. :V
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Mei-Fan Chen;
And while we're at it, Nikolai, why would "I got Town Cop and Town Vigilante as roles" equate to "possibly slowkill"?
This particular line should be read as:
"Why do you think that Hargreaves possibly claimed the slowkill when he gave a flavour explanation as to how and why he acquired the power of BOTH Town Cop as well as Town Vigilante, two roles that before that time had been attributed to me. He explicitly said he had acquired both those roles, and that he postulated I must have gotten his role.
Why does this post of his make you think that he is possibly slowkilled?"
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Yeah, I read that - that was the explicit flavour post I was referring to. On second thought though, "barely retained his sanity" means that it's likely that he will still be alive after tonight. My mistake.
However, something doesn't add up here. You claim that you had Cop+Vig roles, and you didn't know about the Vig part - and then after attacking Hargreaves, the roles transferred to him somehow? And on top of this, you got back a Scum result on him? And when he got the roles, he knew that he was both a Townie Cop AND a Townie Vig?
Hm. Going to have to think about Hargreaves a bit more, something interesting is going on here somewhere.
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Oh, and Andrews: from this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg107042.html#msg107042), something doesn't add up, because take a look at this post from Snow:
It is Day 6. It is LYLO, so there is no deadline (technically potential LYLO, but.... yeah.). With 6 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106968.html#msg106968)
So... which is it? Snow: If there is no fastkill tonight, only a slowkill, and we mislynch today, does Town lose? Furthermore - if we No Lynch today, and there is no fastkill tonight, only a slowkill, does Town also lose?
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Er. Town must lynch - so disregard that last line. However, lynching me is isomorphic to a No Lynch, so...yeah, replace "No Lynch" with "lynching a reviving role".
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* Rules for town: Town must lynch (barring the extremely unlikely circumstance of townies not having a majority, yet still having a win theoretically possible). If there is no hammer by deadline, the character with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the Day will continue in Sudden Death. If Sudden Death lasts longer than 24 hours then Azathoth, via its minion Hatbot, will be consulted for its opinion. If you are preparing a post / votechange near deadline and there is a huge rush of activity / ninjas, don't panic, tell the mod and there likely will be an informal 15-minute extension so you can get your post through, though nothing is guaranteed and more time than 15 minutes is unlikely.
No lynch is only an acceptable vote in the one very rare circumstance as noted above.
I will not comment on the current situation and how I would determine what to call "LYLO" and what to call "potential LYLO" aside from the obvious that I stick 'potential' on if any realistic combination of night actions could affect the result. If you want to give a hypothetical example with all the parameters set, I *may* be able to reply, but I can't discuss the actual setup. (In other words if you say "What's 4 vanilla townies + 2 vanilla scum?" I will answer "LYLO.")
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Mei-Fan Chen;
Yeah, I read that - that was the explicit flavour post I was referring to. On second thought though, "barely retained his sanity" means that it's likely that he will still be alive after tonight. My mistake.
... Yeah, he continues to say tht being he absorbed gives him new power. Hence why I thought it was odd to think it a possibility of slowkill. I'm going to tread careful here because believe you me I am getting pretty nervous here. Please don't vote until you've at least considered all posts here, especially those of Jack Daniels who is absolutely Town I think virtually everyone agrees.
However, something doesn't add up here. You claim that you had Cop+Vig roles, and you didn't know about the Vig part - and then after attacking Hargreaves, the roles transferred to him somehow?
Okay, work with me here. I claimed Cop. Hargreaves says I had Vigilante as well, but that it appeared as a seperate result. So not "Bardiche is Cop Vigilante", but something like "Bardiche is Cop. Bardiche is also a vigilante!" I assume.
Now then, I didn't know about Vigilante, but we assume this is true based on all my night targets also being hit by a Vigilante.
Now, it was discussed the previous Day, as provided by Towniest Town of the Town mr Bike that I should act according to a specific plan. This plan involved attacking Samuel if you would flip Town, and you flipped Town.
I then proceeded to act as I had announced, and attacked Samuel. As expected, he protected himself.
I got the investigation result of "Scum".
Today begins! Samuel claims he got my roles and that I am probably his role. I say that I am getting slowkilled, and that something odd happened. Samuel doesn't mention anything specific. I reveal my investigation result.
In no way did I ever claim Samuel got my roles, especially because they don't work as he advertises them. Namely, my Vigilante action is the same as my Cop action. Every night I say "I investigate X", and then afterwards I attack person X, I presume. Point in case: Samuel claims he has a restriction on 'my' set of roles, I don't have them.
Ipso facto: Samuel claims he has acquired my roles and I say that that is not true.
Okay?
And on top of this, you got back a Scum result on him? And when he got the roles, he knew that he was both a Townie Cop AND a Townie Vig?
Hm. Going to have to think about Hargreaves a bit more, something interesting is going on here somewhere.
And yes, he said he got Town Cop and Town Vig roles. ... Thus implying I'm Town. Or 3P who appears as Town. Or Scum Squeaky-Clean Vigilante Cop.
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That also baffles me. The nature of the slowkills has been so obvious that everyone who was hit with it has been able to call it. If Hargreaves was going to claim a slowkill, he'd have done it, not done the whole role swapping malarky.
Hargreaves noted a while ago when he claimed that if he doc'd someone, some "curse" or whatever would happen. Dale attacked Hargreaves last night, and Hargreaves doc'd himself. So, I'm pretty that's why all that happened.
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And exactly why can't Greaves be scum? He's played the scummiest out of anybody here and the only thing we have saving him is the claim that he was a reviver. Yeah, he probably revived Bike. But that's also a pretty damn perfect cover for scum--if Greaves IS scum, we've basically thrown him aside as a suspect based on that revival alone, and it's gotten him to the endgame. Going off the roleclaim here is too WIFOMy to me, and I especially don't like how Greaves (and Hargreaves) declared discussion over and ended yesterday on their own.
H'okay, I've got a web conference to pay attention to at 6 for my Interac interview, and that will last til 8. I'll be looking in on the topic every now and then until 6 but after that real life's got me. I'll weigh in on whatever Kolmgorov brings up after that.
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3 hours later... right. Totally shocked here guys. So if Nikolai doesn't come back by the time I go to sleep tonight, I'm done with today and will put my vote down. That's ample time for him to have weighed in.
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Also around, not much else to add. Will vote for whoever Jack/Nikolai want me to, as promised. That includes...well, anybody in the game except for them.
Greaves has played scummy and his revival of Bike is a null tell for reasons already mentioned, summing up to "if he'd used it on scum we'd have murdered him to death as soon as Nikolai rolecopped him." Occam's Razor has him and Hargreaves as by far the most likely scumteam.
Hargreaves has been awful today, is in a direct claim-war with somebody we know for a fact is not scum, and his being scum explains why they didn't go after Nikolai. Lynching either one of those two is my ideal outcome for the day. Hargreaves is slightly preferred because we know he can protect himself from a vig shot.
Today being worse LYLO than yesterday only works if Bard is not scum, never mind the other indications that scum did not control the fastkill. Granted, he is possibly also nontown, and if people decide to flip 180 and lynch him I won't protest horribly about it, though only because lynching the slowkill victim presumably means we still get a Day 7 at 3:2 (Unless there's a fastkill aimed at town tonight even without Bard, which would shock me) and then we'd be able to get down to the business of lynching scum. I would rather just lynch scum.
Jack is nonscum, as evidenced by the mod declaration that a scum miller would be illegal. Could theoretically be ITP I guess but Hargreaves scanned him as vanilla and they can't be working together because of the aforementioned "not scum" thing.
Nikolai has flipped. No more need be said.
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Well, there may well BE a fastkill aimed at town tonight without Bard, if Hargreaves is telling the truth about the roleswap. So that's a pretty distinct possibility, if we lynch Bard. Nobody has given me a really good reason to lynch Bard instead of Har/greaves, though, so........
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Yeah, plenty of time.
If we win at this point, which I think we will given a Greaves/Hargreaves scumpair, well, go us.
If we've lost, good job scum. You lost to a bunch of people who played scummy as hell, couldn't deduct worth shit (mostly myself here) and someone who lurked ad absurdum. You earned the win and I'm more annoyed at Alice than I am at Snowfire because the role madness was pretty fun, buy it or not.
I feel like I've given Alice ample time to weigh in. He hasn't yet, so fuck him.
##VOTE: Samuel Hargreaves
And god help us all.
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At work, just quickly, if you're doing this please make sure the #2 in votecount at day end is whoever you think has the best chance to be the second scum (for my money Andrews but it's not my call, if you want to go Greaves then sure). If scum actually non-slowkilled last night to give Dale's claim weight then we can still potentially win provided he can't hit town tonight. (Hopefully he's lost his power, in which case great, but I don't want to bank on it).
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Mei-Fan Chen;
##VOTE: Samuel Hargreaves, don't have much to add on this point at all.
Just seconding Jack. I'd look incredibly odd if Samuel and Nathan aren't scum together and if they aren't, then yeah, scum won due to people playing scummy as all get-out.
And the #2 in the lynching rankings doesn't matter shit at all. Just re-iterating this point. Bravo for Hargreaves to have found some pattern in my investigations, but it's all just a coincidence, crazy as it sounds.
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Votecount.
SnowFire [1]: Samuel Hargreaves
Samuel Hargreaves [3]: Nathan Greaves, Jack Daniels, Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche)
Sam Hargreaves is 1 vote away from eternity.
It is Day 6. It is LYLO, so there is no deadline. With 6 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch.
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Okay then.
##Vote Samuel Hargreaves
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@Makkotah: funny, because I had posted no less than 12 hours ago, and was just in the process of "weighing in" right now. Admittedly, I would have lynched Hargreaves anyway, so meh.
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It's hammer, stop talking please and wait warmly while Snowfire writes the flavour.
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SnowFire [1]: Samuel Hargreaves
Samuel Hargreaves [4]: Nathan Greaves, Jack Daniels, Mei-Fan Chen (Bardiche), Martin Andrews
"It's no wonder this Nick fellow wanted to pretend to be me. I'm such a fine person, after all. I do need to work on my singing, though... been practicing a little Portuguese ditty, but it needs some work."
At least one person was happy. The mood was grim, otherwise. Andrews nervously looked left and right, now propounding to everyone his theory that the Order of Caduceus was behind all the world's ills, and all doctors must be stopped. Greaves chewed on his pencil nearly continuously and alternated between a genial smile and a furrowed brow of concern. Mei-Fan refused to go indoors despite the start of the rainfall and showed signs of having slept in an open field the night before. Clearly the traitors among the remaining suspects had been seen as loyal townies for a long time. But with Mei-Fan's accusation, it seemed clear that trusty veterinarian Samuel Hargreaves was hiding even more secrets than he claimed. What was this secret organization he claimed to have worked for after the Great War, anyway?
"I suppose we have no other choice, " Samuel said as he drew an engraved cavalry saber somehow hidden on his person. "You'll find a Knight of Sapientes Gladio is as hard to kill now as last night, madman. Or is it madam? It's obvious to everyone - maybe even you - that it is not safe for you to be allowed to exist around real people." Mei-Fan made a clumsy dodge from Samuel's sudden charge, earning a long gash along the arm - and with a mutter, 'her' movements suddenly changed. Samuel's next brutal slice was parried by a knife Mei-Fan had drawn from her belt lightning-quick - and it was clear that this really was the second round of an epic battle that started last night, and that the real Ronald Dale was now the one in attendance at this meeting.
"Dale's an interesting one," Greaves cheerfully mentioned to the shocked onlookers - the battle was being fought at close-quarters and it was unsafe to fire into it. "Did you know he worked in the Intelligence Service in the Great War? Got that off one of my better contacts. Acquired some interesting tastes while 'interrogating' prisoners, I hear. An unusually large number of 'em disappeared, or were 'shot while trying to escape.' No bodies found, of course. I'm such a fan of his that I even own a rare copy of a book he only published 50 copies of, privately and to his friends. It's... deliciously shocking. Truly Mr. Dale put his soul, his very twisted soul, into Henry And The Lady. Hahaha!"
Samuel leaped backward from another deadly poke of Ronald's knife, barely in time - and this time seemed to decide discretion was the better part of valor? He ran into the nearby Marbury Meeting Hall, an old Congregationalist Church since adapted to serve as a gathering place for many organizations, like the Ladies Christian Knitting Circle. It was, at the moment, empty.
"What are you waiting for?! After him, fool!" shouted Jack Daniels. Yet Dale showed an odd reluctance to cross the threshold into the building - rather similar to Mei-Fan's refusal to enter any building at all lately. What could be causing this? After an agonizing 5 seconds, Dale made up his mind and threw open the door, immediately dodging to the ground as the expected gunshot rang out. Samuel blasted his revolver 5 more times, this time angled downward, but Dale had already moved to the side. The thrill of the hunt in him, and sensing the desperation in Hargreaves, Dale moved back to the doorframe and dashed inside while Hargreaves reloaded -
- and now, the howling which only Mei-Fan had heard before suddenly became audible to everyone. Black, shadowy monsters burst from the 4 corners of the room. Dale reached Hargreaves and triumphantly inserted his dagger into Samuel's stomach, and the monsters leaped out onto the both of them at the same moment with an unearthly wail. They looked vaguely... but only vaguely... as if they were hunting dogs, caught in the thrill of their own quarry. And they had found it. The hounds ripped both Samuel and Ronald to pieces, embraced in the lock of death.... a sight that won't soon leave the eyes of any who saw it.
Then, as mysteriously as they came, they stopped, leaping back through the corners of the room to their own home... wherever that might be.
Shockingly, impossibly, it seemed Sam Hargreaves was still a little bit alive, despite being stabbed repeatedly and seemingly devoured by the mysterious shadow beasts. As Martin Andrews came up next to him, he only mumbled "Beware... he... he's not... human..."
Samuel Hargreaves, Scum Roledoc, was lynched! (Can protect one person other than himself from normal nightkills. Learns protected person's roles.)
(And, while in Mafia terms happening tonight, in plot terms happening now because the game is over anyway...)
Mei-Fan Chen / Ronald Dale, Town Cop / Town Vigilante, went crazy and was ripped apart by the Hounds of Tindalos! (Multiple personalities? Mei-Fan can investigate one person a night and get a result of "Town," "Scum," or "Third-Party." Knows she's not a naive or rando-cop. Ronald then vigs night target regardless of alignment.)
With the rain gathering force, the suspects decided to stay at the church-cum-Meeting Hall. Greaves tipped his hat, saying "I'll be back later. Got a friend of ours I wanted to bring along. Sure he'll be happy to see you."
-
The game of Mafia is over. Town has won.
Roukanken wishes to resign because Town has an assured victory that's extraordinarily unlikely to derp up.
Nathan Greaves, Scum Reviver Doctor, gets disposed of somehow! (Either shot by Bardiche, or if Bardiche shoots Andrews, Lynched because Jack is a nigh-confirmed townie and Sam H. couldn't protect himself, meaning the Scum must have another Doctor, and Greaves already claimed that he was one.) (Can protect one person other than himself from normal nightkills. Can 'doc' dead players as well, and choose to revive them either fully or as voteless abominations that collapse after a day and can only talk. Can't revive scum, or at least not effectively; if he does so, the only result is flavor noting their return and prompt death, which doesn't cost town a lynch.)
Jack Daniels, Vanilla Town, survived - and survived sane! (Formerly a Miller.)
Nikolai Kolmogorov, Town Miller Rolecop (?) Self-Reviver, survived 'till the last day, but was sent insane on the last night, which really means 'gets enough sanity to realize he really is Nick Koupitoris and gets checked into the Sanitarium, again.'
Martin Andrews, Town Docproof, probably didn't survive since Bardiche says his night action would have been to shoot him! (Immune to all actions from doctors and variants. Attempted action results in a message sent to both parties that the subject is immune.)
Peyton Hadley survived over in the asylum!
Vanilla is obv the most powerful role.
---
The story, however, is not over. Sure, town knows that Nathan Greaves is scum. But can mere ##VOTEs really defeat him? No, you'll have to be a mite cleverer than that. Both Jack Daniels and Martin Andrews (if alive) know the chants & rituals & magic circles and such for banishment, so that's under control. (Don't worry if you don't remember you remember, Martin, you find you know enough.) However, there is one thing missing: the name of that to be banished.
Anybody - townies, scum, observers - is invited to try and help out our intrepid remaining townies. The question is: What is Nathan Greaves' true name? The answer is somewhere in this thread, and has been for some time. Get it right, and get a more Town-friendly epilogue written! Get it wrong, and, well. Mr. Greaves may have more control over the ending in that case.
Additionally, one other question. Who killed Jon Hutchins? Hint: The answer is not the scum, or at least not the scum collectively! As Ethan Hayles noted, a knife on the back isn't his style; all the scumkills were based on insanity. Unlike the Greaves question, the answer to this is not definitively in the thread. You can, however, take an educated guess. There are only about 5 characters who had both opportunity and motive. If you're one of our various brain-addled players with fuzzy memory, feel free to vote yourself if you think you did it. (And unlike the above, this is just for fun. Won't change the plot at all.)
Full flip of what really happened behind the scenes, + role PMs and night messages, to come tonight.
-
The three of you charge into the abandoned church, puddles on the floor a testament to the failing roof. Immediately you work on sealing the only exit, blocking it with pews, holy seals, and anything else you can find. For a moment, you breathe a collective sigh of relief.
Until a knock on the door echoes through the building.
"Evening. Anyone home?"
The seals on the wooden door are enough to keep Nathan out, but his voice still travels through with ease and bounces around freely.
"That was quite a show you three pulled off there. Front-page, headline news - 'Sapientes Gladio Wiped Off The Face Or Marbury'! Or at least, that was the plan, wasn't it?"
Nathan places a hand on the door, attempting to push. He's still unable to get through, but his hand pushes the door the slightest bit forward.
"Don't worry. I'm not going to kill you like those brutish cultists would. It's never been my style...not quite as fun, shall we say. The mouse caught in the trap makes the most delightful squeals, so why cut them short?"
Silence for a moment. The sound of nearby thunder resonates, shaking the church's walls.
"And the best part is that in spite of all your supposed little victories, each and every one of you is still blind to the truth. Blind, thoughtless assumptions - they're what have led your kind to its own destruction so many times before."
Nathan chuckles to himself. It is a rough, hearty laugh with all the likability of fingernails on a chalkboard.
"Hargreaves was no better than any of you. He saw a glimpse of me, of what I was. But that story about the Sacred Chosen of Thanatos? Nonsense!"
He nearly bursts into laughter as he recants, resting a hand on the door. It gives another creak, slightly louder than the one before it. The other hand rests on the shoulder of an old man, with a face strikingly similar to that of Moses Bike. A face that has experienced death, and will suffer that fate many times over before its master tires of it.
"He just assumed I was on his side - a Knight Commander of Sapientes Gladio, I told him, and he fell for it without a hint of disbelief. But that was a lie as well - lying is easy, when you've done it for as long as I have.
But the best fables always have a hint of truth in them. It's just a shame you humans have been too caught up in your mortal games to even notice. Too attentive in saving lives to notice something larger at working behind the scenes. And it's that ignorance that'll cost you everything now."
The door creaks again, opening further still. Now the sound of some sort of flapping can be made out above everything else, a sound silenced as Nathan raises one arm.
"Forgive the noise. That's my new pet bat, T'Tahaithoo. I met him here in Marbury before all this started, and I've grown quite attached to him.
But regardless. You've stopped me momentarily with this barrier of yours, but in doing so you've locked yourself in. Now, just wait there like good little children while I get this door open..."
The door starts to shake wildly. At this rate, Nathan will make his way in with ease and - well, you're not sure what he'll do to you, but it definitely isn't good.
There's only one chance. Collectively, the three of you know enough of the occult to perform a rite of banishment - a ritual that with any luck will send Nathan off to another realm where he can no longer be a threat to Marbury (and more importantly, you). There's one problem, though - the ritual requires the true name of the target, and more than likely Nathan Greaves is simply a pseudonym.
With all his claims of a greater truth behind the scenes, though, maybe there's a way to figure things out after all. In the end, your fates depend on whether you can answer one decisive question:
Who is Nathan Greaves?
-
Clearly Martin Andrews killed Jon Hutchins. After all, Dale saw a 30+ guy run off and there's only one bloke here close enough to Hutchins to do that!
... as for the main question I'll leave that 'till later.
(PS: Sorry Martin, I figured shooting the Docproof ensures there's only one option and no self-defence)
And props to Sam for being scum MVP.
-
While the flavor will all be revealed a bit later, no harm in revealing the mechanics of what happened each night now.
--
Day 1:
Lynch Tyrone
--
Night 1:
Ronald: Investigate (and shoot) Peyton (Result: TOWN, Peyton loses his one-shot of BP)
Nikolai: Rolecop Moses (Result: Archivist)
Moses: Read The Davidson Record (find out: "When measured from the inside, the number of non-town-aligned people is four. But when measured from the outside, the number of non-town-aligned people is either five or six!")
Peyton: Bodyguard Moses
Chad: Protect Moses
Pietro: Paranoid investigation of Hellsnake (Result: SCUM)
--
Sam (lmm): Roledoc Nikolai (Result: Rolecop (?) Miller Self-Reviver)
Nathan (Roukanken): (Blatant) NK Moses
Seamus (Excal): Docfather self
(Ethan/Yoshi: Practice banjo)
--
Day 2:
Lynch Hellsnake
--
Night 2:
Ronald: Investigate (and stab) Pietro (Result: TOWN, but still guilty of bootlegging, and one dead mafioso)
Nikolai: Rolecop Handley (Sopko) (Result: Vigilante Supercop Doctor Bulletproof Triplevoter (???))
Moses: Read captain's log of Sir John Franklin (find out: "Veterinarian Samuel Hargreaves knows the scum's secret, whether he realizes it consciously or not."), go crazy from N1 slowkill
Peyton: Bodyguard Handley (Sopko)
Chad: Protect Jack Daniels (Also removes Miller)
Pietro: Paranoid investigation of Moses (Result: SCUM)
Handley (Sopko): Collect Archivist, Moses' role.
--
Sam (lmm): Roledoc Jack Daniels (Result: Vanilla, also WTF there are no Vanilla roles)
Nathan (Roukanken): Doc Ethan
Seamus (Excal): Doc Nathan
Ethan (Yoshi): (Subtle) NK Chad
--
Day 3:
Lynch Ethan Hayles (Yoshi)
Handley (Sopko): Collect one-shot of Psychology Doc.
--
Night 3
--
Ronald: Investigate (and stab) Chad (Result: MOD-GUARANTEED TOWN, ineffective attack due to doc)
Nikolai: Rolecop Andrews (Result: Docproof)
Handley (Sopko): Read Alice in Wonderland (find out: "The scum are late! All scum kills this game are slowkills."), collect one-shot normal Doc from Chad.
Peyton: Bodyguard Hargreaves
Chad: Protect self (Stops Ronald's kill), go crazy from N2 slowkill
--
Sam (lmm): Roledoc Nathan Greaves (Result: Doctor Reviver, also wow creepy your scumbuddy is not in any sense of the word human)
Nathan (Roukanken): Revive Moses Bike (perma-revive, not just-talk revive)
Seamus (Excal): (Blatant) NK Peyton
--
Day 4:
Lynch Seamus (Excal)
--
Night 4:
Ronald: Investigate (and stab) Kyle (Result: TOWN, dead spy)
Nikolai: Rolecop Hadley (Result: One-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard)
Handley (Sopko): Counter-Psych Jack Daniels (Note: Had he lived he'd have collected the one-shot bulletproof from Peyton, but Peyton wasn't actually dead until the start of Day 5).
Peyton: Bodyguard Moses/Gershom/Xanth, go crazy from N3 slowkill
--
Sam (lmm): Roledoc Dale (Two separate results: Cop *and* Vigilante; not Vigilante Cop) (Nearly was Roledoc and save Handley, but changed at literally the last second.)
Nathan (Roukanken): NK Moses / Gershom (AGAIN)
--
Day 5:
Lynch Nikolai
--
Night 5:
Mei-Fan / Ronald: Investigate (and stab) Samuel H. (Result: SCUM)
Nikolai: Busy being temporarily dead for tax purposes
Moses/Gershom: Go crazy from N4 slowkill
--
Sam (lmm): NK Mei-Fan
Nathan (Roukanken): Doc Sam (saves him from Dale)
--
Day 6:
Lynch Sam H.
--
(If Night 6 had happened:)
Mei-Fan / Ronald: Stab Nathan or Andrews, get other lynched the next day, go crazy from N5 slowkill
Nikolai: Rolecop someone, verify Nathan is Doc who could have saved Sam / see that Jack really is Vanilla
--
Nathan (Roukanken): NK Nicolai
-
Already mentioned it in scumchat, but yeah, take full blame for us losing this one. Before Day One had even ended, I got ill and had no motivation or energy whatsoever, so really couldn't be bothered to read through the topic at all. (Which is also why I didn't double-check my claim, despite knowing the Miller had flipped already)
As for who killed Hutchins, I'm willing to hazard a guess at it being Andrews as well. I mean, he was part of the Order, lost his recent memory for some unknown reason and would have been involved in the ritual that Bike heard. As for those in the Order, it wasn't me, and Jack stopped going, leaving Andrews (and some unknown, but it's much easier to blame the one we know about.)
As for Greaves, that'd take a re-read, which asdsgfhgdfhg not happening now. Maybe later, if I'm feeling better.
-
I was? Yeah, I guess that makes me the prime suspect.
-
Oh, since I forgot to mention it, props to lmm. I said from the start that, if I'd not known you were scum, you'd've been my prime choice for NK, and you played amazingly throughout - it was only role madness that really caught you out, methinks, so congrats on that one.
Town MVP... hrm. Difficult, but I'd probably say Hadley. A few things he couldn't have known about ("Scum tried to NK me, and now Ethan's pushing for my lynch!") but otherwise, solid play throughout.
-
"I'm gonna accuse Chad Hutchins. He was the one to call attention to the body of Jon on Night 0, there's evident uncertainty about his father's innocence here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105612.html#msg105612), and of course there's the fact that after he looked through his father's work he sent the entire building into who knows where.
Now, anyway, back to this door..."
-
I'm not a fan of the door. Let's stick with non-door-related activities.
-
I don't know, Sam played the whole super bussing thing, but didn't actually play it well, what with pumping so much information into the game tying him down very tightly. He spent most of the game tying a noose around his own neck - it was never going to last. It also pretty much forced him to lynch Seamus on day 4, even when it saved a townie they really needed to deal with at one point or another.
Likewise that revival play. The main reason not to distrust Nathan from it was because it wouldn't save him.
My experience of the game:
Day 1: Tied up in crazy defence.
Day 2: Motivation drain on probable slow kill. (and man, not one but two docs on me at the time)
Day 3: Dead, and mostly confused about how anything could balance.
Day 4: Too much to catch up on.
Day 5: Dying again, still too much to bother catching up on.
Day 6: Dead. Again.
So, uh, sorry guys, I wasn't actually of much use when it came to working out who was what (I never did read the thread in full again). I can optimise the role set up without thinking too much (reeeaaaally wish you had told us about the self-revival, Nikolai - sure, we would have pretty much definitely lynched you to prove the point, but I would have known that we had a spare action as a result), but didn't have a really good idea of who was what based on what they'd been saying like you're supposed to, other than that Excal really wasn't playing like Excal. Like, my only memory of Martin was the first two days of lurking, so I was way behind on the more positive reads of him being far townier than Nathan, which mattered. You know, like how the game is supposed to work.
I'm really quite happy with how my outing the fast killer gambit paid off, mostly because I knew the first box of suspects didn't make sense and that broke it open, but also because it made Mei-Fan head townie, and she had all of the right information about who had been playing scummy to bring it home.
Also glad that town rallied at about the point I died, despite no fewer than four townie giant distractions during the game. That took some really smooth play to keep in hand.
The game felt really unbalanced for quite some time - first in town's favour, then in scum's favour by about the time that I died [for the first time] - but worked out oddly well when actually getting to grips with the whole picture.
I had plenty to say but have mostly forgotten it at the moment, so it can wait until whenever. The only other thing to say immediately would be:
My initial guess for Nathan Greaves's true name is Rath'napula. This being the name presented to me when I was being slow killed by... oh, lookie here, Nathan. In my dark visions it was supposedly the name of the killer fish I had in the lake, but it's the one random name from the thread that comes to mind that makes a degree of sense. Bonuses if anyone else picked up that name in their death visions, but I'm guessing not.
Don't have the relevant information on hand to guess Jon's killer. It wasn't me, that's all I can say with much conviction. I was only in Marbury to look for weird things in the lake.
-
Phew, it's finally over. I really need to learn to spend less time on these games. Thanks to everyone, apologies to the rest of the scumteam. It did rather end up being decided on the basis of roles, but that's probably my fault for telling the truth to town so much.
-
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8059/yodawgi.png)
Yo dawg, I herd u like roles in your roles, so I put some roles in your roles so they would have roles.
-
That's how we role.
-
So the wait's on Nikolai.
At least he doesn't need to bother with that wall of text.
... am I the only one a little annoyed he managed to skirt by mostly lurking and snipe-contributing, promising analysis but never delivering and yet ending up the towniest town among us?
Welcome to the nightmare MotK Mafia has been living for the past year and a half.
-
Also, no guesses from me, I simply could not follow this game due to all the flavor. Well-constructed setup, apparently, but damn if it isn't harsh on anyone that doesn't follow Lovecraft.
-
Clearly Martin Andrews killed Jon Hutchins. After all, Dale saw a 30+ guy run off and there's only one bloke here close enough to Hutchins to do that!
>_> <_<
Anyway, that was fun, role madness was pretty sweet despite how much of a headache it turned into. Derps all around.
-
As much as I can respect the gutsy play (I did also sign up on to the Revival ploy), the big mistake you made at the end was to not fakeclaim the slow kill. Odds were good you were going to end up losing the credibility war against Bard, but at least then you wouldn't have shot yourself in the foot by confirming him Town.
As for me, was unable to post as much as I wanted to on Day 3/4, which is a shame since while I was planning to bus Yoshi (He had slipped up, and I was having a hard time finding anything on other folks who weren't Alice/Shale) I wasn't able to support my case. The most frustrating thing about the whole thing is that, despite my case on Yoshi being something I would have followed as Town, I got called out for having too much info, by a fellow scum buddy. >_>
People getting on my case about my flip flop on Bard... while I do do flips like that often enough as Town, I'll admit it. Suspecting him in the first place was mostly a fiction so that I could jump on him later. I'll also admit that I went with the Miller claim when I assumed there would just be no cop in play. Amusingly, I was more expecting there to be a watcher, and was planning to randomly Cop townies or other high profile folks to hopefully get some eventual credit there. That... panned out poorly, though the chaos presented by the claim was fun.
Ah well, props to Town. You guys did win the game, even if Scum did help you guys lock things down. lmm and Rou, while you guys did make a couple of slip ups, it was otherwise a pretty good attempt. And honestly, a lot more fun than the scum teams that don't even try anything.
Finally, Kudos to Snowfire. Nice setup, and it was fun to watch Town go mad trying to figure out what the hell was up.
As for who did what, I think I agree with the majority that it was Shale what did it. Not scum's style to kill that way.
As for Greaves... as twisted as it sounds, I think my RP goal was pretty much accomplished, and the last bit of it is to see him taken down... (And yes, this is considering the whole I am scum thing too... Despite being scum, I'm still not Gladientes Sapio, and I'm supposedly not easy with their methods of hunting monsters with monsters.)
-
Hmm. Nah, Rath'napula's a good guess, but not quite that. I don't know how much longer that door is going to hold up.
On behalf of Mr. Greaves: "It's unsurprising that none of your mortals could break my inscrutable code, despite it being right in front of your faces." So, if you want to have a go at looking, you only need to read Nathan Greaves' posts. Also, for this to work, the answer has to be in something that *the characters* would have access to in-setting... a pretty big clue I think.
-
"Code....code, code--a code!" Andrews gasped, scrambling for the stack of papers he had kept in the shop's back room. "Those damned articles, there would be something. Let's see, maybe -- there! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg106402.html#msg106402) N...A...THAN ISSCUM -- that son of a bitch, he was making fun of us! It's got to be there somewhere, maybe not that one, but one of them....of course! A being from beyond time, someone -- something -- that doesn't belong here and now, and one of these pages....yes! That's it! His true name..."
"Tom Lehrer!"
Silence.
"No, no, that can't be right. Something else, something...there...that's...." Greaves' second article dropped to the floor as Andrews' eyes unfocused, staring into space. "That, that....that's him it can't be that's him no we're going to die...." His voice pitched higher as he began to babble, with a terrible rhythm in his words.
"I name you, servant of Azathoth, the will of the Outer Gods, the Three-Lobed Burning Eye--the Black Man, the Crawling Chaos...Nyarlathotep! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4828.msg105572.html#msg105572)"
-
I'm going to guess Ronald Dale killed Jon, personally.
-
Okay guys. Nothing to add to the RP, but...
Wow. Rou, that was ballsy as hell. And you still were the last scum alive. Great job.
EDIT: Also, derp derp derp.
-
A-durrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Seriously, we're all morons.
-
Okay guys. Nothing to add to the RP, but...
Wow. Rou, that was ballsy as hell. And you still were the last scum alive. Great job.
EDIT: Also, derp derp derp.
This. It was standard code too. :V
-
His fourth one was "I am with Seamus" so yeah. He basically outed the last two members of scum publically and no one caught him.
-
...man. That is amazing. Nicely done, Rou, and Snow too if this was your idea. :P
-
I encouraged Rou to stick some kind of secret code in his newspaper articles, but he WAS way more ballsy with it than I expected, yes. On the bright side it made for a great finale and a "we should have known" moment.
Do note that Rou didn't out anyone else - Seamus was lynched Day 4, so that article only announced his own scumminess, if "NATHAN IS SCUM" wasn't enough from Night 3. TTAHAITHOO is Night 1 (read: no code) so that became his pet bat, who deserved a moment in the newsprint.
--
General comments:
I was going for several things with this game:
* Mystery: Obvious. But it needs to be a soluble mystery, not random crap flying against the wall. By necessity, this meant changing some of the standard assumptions about how Mafia works. The way I approached this was to give the Archivist role - complete with backup - a chance for town to find out nuggets of info about what was strange about the setting, and full flips for townies. I figured that arguing over what exactly a townie was trying to hint at at what their role did after a NK would be bad and not fun, so I wanted the flips to notably help (like they did in Chad's case, where his flip cleared Jack Daniels). As for the assumptions... well, the biggest one was obviously the kill switcheroo. Normal nightkills are TOWN aligned, weird insanity slowkills are scum aligned. The other bit of bizarreness to solve was that the scum were all doctors. Early on this would be actively unhelpful - everyone loves doctors - but once a few scum started flipping, any extra doctors would start looking more and more suspicious. If town figured out what was going on, at least.
* Horror: This was mostly in "things that do not work as you expect." Bardiche's VigCop was the big winner here, but so was Yoshi's "you got helped to find some truth!" messages that were actually slowkills. This was also tied in the Mystery / Role-balance - if you drew Bulletproof, there was a moment of "Oh, wow, awesome!" ...then it turns out you aren't as safe as you thought. But hey, if you change horror to "surprise," Martin Andrews gets the surprise of finding out Docproof is great, not useless.
* Mix of Good & Evil on both sides.
* Role balance. Obviously ties into Mystery above, but doctors, bulletproof, and bodyguard were all way less useful than expected. Which is not to say they were a trap - it's better to be BP than not be BP, as Peyton can attest - but it's one way of throwing the seeming power level of town far higher than it really was. Thanks to Bardiche's role, Miller was not really a big deal either - it only mattered for Hellsnake, who had a hell of a roleclaim to maybe keep him alive (it didn't). If Bardiche & Chad had figured out their roles and worked together, they even could check someone nearly-guaranteed together - Chad saves 'em & clears Miller if needed, Bardiche cops 'em. Miller only mattered if saved by Peyton's Bodyguarding or a Scum Doc attempt otherwise. Note that in the case of Nikolai, scum had a perverse incentive to doc him so that he wouldn't die to a vig and flip as confirmed-townie! Also, Peyton was the only way Martin Andrews could ever have been safely inspected by Bardiche (Hah, Docproof doesn't stop a Bulletproof Bodyguard from saving your life).
Also, to reiterate since it's important: No, the Scum Reviver COULD NOT revive other scum, that would be completely broken.
I'll compare this game with Hero Mafia, which also was 15 players / 4 scum: Hero Mafia was lightly town-favored (though not by as much as some thought), and town was stacked with direct investigative roles - i.e. "this person is almost certainly scum" thanks to cop / tracker / etc. Town had few ways to decisively indict someone as scum here, but they did have a number of ways to build up a critical mass of confirmed townies. That was the general balance goal I was looking for. When I tested the game via RNGing lynches / scum NK targets / cop targets (with a certain resilence for "ah, rando-lynching the cop, he'd claim, roll to see if I should re-roll the lynch and then he eats a NK"), it wasn't uncommon to hit Day 4 with 3 straight mislynches and 5 townies : 4 scum - but 3 of those townies were damn near confirmed or better, thanks to the Reviver / Cop hitting a BP / Claiming to have Revived the Townie / etc.
I think the setup lightly favored town, but that's okay by me. Scum-favored setups tend to hit LYLO too fast which is no fun (Day 3 would have been considerably less intense with Hellsnake alive) and town is more likely to get hit by modkills. The setup had a number of things which could go horribly wrong for town, like "lynch the Reviver" or "lynch the CopVig" (imagine how scummy Bardiche would have looked on Day 3 if pressed! "No I am not scum worried about a tracker when the two people I copped died / were attacked."). And a lot of crap to work through, like Millers and general confusion. So, yeah, with 20/20 hindsight it favors town, but that assumes town figures out the chaos, which it nearly didn't. Had Scum pushed a mislynch harder on Day 3... well, then Bardiche probably would have cop/shot Yoshi/Ethan, actually, and then lynched Yoshi Day 4 (he'd have been doc-protected). But that would out Bardiche / Mei-Fan, and town would lose her services for finding the last 3 scum. Could easily have gone to a scum victory there. Alternatively, if scum hadn't bussed Excal quite so effectively on Day 4, it's possible that Excal might have escaped on Day 5 by tossing some crazy claim in the air and lynching Bardiche instead or something.
* Alignment-changing roles: I have some severe philosophical issues with these roles (HAHA, SURPRISE, SWITCH TEAMS, IF YOU HAD LURKED AND DONE NOTHING FOR TOWN YOU'D BE BETTER OFF), but if they were to be expected anywhere, this kind of setting would be it. Precisely because they would be so flavorful and "expected" I decided to rule them out, because otherwise I forsaw endless debates on if Revived person X was really a scum zombie slave. If alignment-shifting was allowed, then you have issues like "throw out a revived person's entire posting record because it's not reliable" and in general would make the Reviver roles not *nearly* favor Town as much as they did. Cult Leader, while flavorful, just... doesn't work as a balanced Mafia idea in general. Third parties would have been fun, but frankly there wasn't room with 4 scum, and I dislike the Survivor role in general (encourages too much do-nothingism).
* Gratuitous use of foreign languages. Obvious.
Huh. Kind of a collection of random thoughts at the moment. Let me post the role PMs and night action PMs shortly. Last call for guesses to Jon Hutchins' murderer, by the way.
-
Clearly I'm missing something here, but then again, I've never been very good at decoding. What is the code in the editorials?
-
String together the first letter of every sentence.
-
That was a blast. I really enjoyed the quirky role interactions, rather than more standard (but not really more/less powerful) Mafia roles. If anything, I'd say two revivers + self-reviver was maybe a bit much, but I guess they were limited by who/how they could bring someone back? What was the trigger for Hellsnake doing a full revive rather than partial?
I'm kind of amazed Town pulled this out after Day 2. DON'T LIE TO TOWN TOM OMGWTF?! Also, the Hargreaves/Greaves gambit where Hargreaves saved Nicolai and bussed Ethan, and then "cleared" Nathan as well, was very slick on the part of Scum.
Anyway, it's pretty bad that the only actual Scum I hunted successfully was based on a genuine OMGUS... and it turns out it wasn't the Scum who attacked me Night 1, after all. >_<
-
Let's get in our time machine back to Day 2.
Well, y'd be wrong on that Hellsnake.
Chad, I done had a fallin' out with yer pa, back in April. 's why I stopped attendin' order meetin's and rituals. I jus' couldn't go through with 'em anymore. We done... we done seem some things, back in the war, an... an I didn't want nothin' to do with them anymore. The day he died, he called me to the Order lodge t' convince me to he'p him perform some big ceremony comin' up on All Hallow's Eve. We argued, and in the end I refused. The reasonin' behind my Miller status is the argument we had right afore his death makes me look mighty suspicious.
Nah, maybe yer right and there are two millers, but frankly I think the Hellsnake's full of shit. Too convenient to maybe have been investigated, found out on his scum status, and then claimin' Miller (o' course, with some extra incentive not t' lynch him by claimin' reviver, too) once his back's against the wall.
I dun by it fer a second.
Jack neglects to mention what came after the argument here, and that would have made him look even more suspicious to cops. Incidentally, killing Jon Hutchins pretty much saved the day... or at least made town face a different threat entirely. Since Jon Hutchins was planning on trying to summon the vast power of Yog-Soggoth to give him (or in actuality his son) infinite power to crush all in his path, etc.
Amusing that he is also the one to survive mostly sane! Just even more memories to wash away with some hooch...
That said, Martin Andrews / Ronald Dale / Chad Hutchins are absolutely legitimate guesses, and those 4 would be the main suspects. It's certainly possible that Andrews also figured out he was Hutchins' magical slave and killed him, then wiped his own memories somehow, and Dale is psychotic enough to not really need a motive. Chad was more a mystery, but certainly possible he... disagreed... with his father's plans for him, plus a certain revelation about Chad's mother (not that Chad knew) would also have given Chad motive.
-
A rough timeline, and also to explain some of the Mei-Fan silliness.
1916-18:
A bunch of characters get involved in WWI. Jon Hutchins & Jack Daniels are in the infantry, and their friend Barnaby is killed. Ronald Dale tortures people. Sam Hargreaves is a surgeon in Oubile Cathedral (from Eternal Darkness). Kyle Handley is a spy for Germany in the US.
1921:
Jon Hutchins returns to Marbury, takes over the Order of Unseen Wisdom, and reworks a largely social organization a la the Masons to use prayers and rituals that 'really work,' basically changing it into a cult of Yog-Soggoth.
1925:
Jon Hutchins sacrifices his wife to cure his son Chad via infusing him with some of Yog-Soggoth's power - but incompletely and messily. This is largely why Chad ends up monstrously powerful on the football field.
April, 1928
Jack Daniels finally leaves the Order, leaving Jon without a #2. Jon creates Martin Andrews, a magical homonculus, to serve him in the May-Eve ritual instead (and occasionally wipes his memory to make sure he can't blab anything accidentally), and also has him start to take over the shop of an Order member.
About 2 weeks before the game starts - ~ October 1, 1928
Jon Hutchins, depressed and something of a megalomaniac by now, tries to go whole-hog and use the dangerous full summoning rituals he's avoided before. He (with Martin Andrews' help) sacrifices Patrick, Pietro Giovanni's cohort in crime, after he stumbles too close to the altar in the mountains. However, the gate only opens incompletely. As a result, rather than Jon getting any power, it seeks out an "easy" target - Chad, who'd already been infused once before. Chad gains... well, whatever his role was, in this case a doctor power. Moses overhears the sacrifice.
** SPLIT
ORIGINAL TIMELINE:
"Nathan Greaves" did not stop by Marbury personally, and thus did not recruit Ethan Hayles. Furthermore, an unpossessed Roland Dale murdered Jack Daniels before Jack could kill Jon Hutchins (this is the newspaper story Mei-Fan reads in 1998, where Dale claims to just be a "witness" to the murder). Jon decided that what had been missing from his previous ritual was a really really big sacrifice to fully draw out Yog-Soggoth's power. Hargreaves & O'Malley crash the party and shoot some cultists, but this just completes the sacrifice. Gendo Ikari style, Jon tried to stay "in charge," but while shot he can't maintain his concentration, and Chad gets all the power. Dad then gets eaten by mega-Alex like everyone else there. The town got munched, and people chalked it up to a freak earthquake afterward. Chad then goes underground and takes a nap, but wakes up every 30 years or so to devour another hamlet. (Chad is basically the monster from "The Dunwich Horror" at this point if you read that.) These 'freak earthquakes' are interesting enough to be studied by Mei-Fan, who decides to go investigate Marbury shortly before the first one, and screw up the timeline.
TIMELINE OF THIS GAME:
Aside from drawing the attention of the Hounds of Tindalos, Mei-Fan also accidentally drew the attention of Nyarlthotep, who noticed the larger swirling amounts of power in the area (and in this continuity is somewhat jealous of Yog-Soggoth - this is my own invention, I think they actually get along in canon). More to the point, she indirectly screwed up the ritual by making it so Ronald Dale didn't kill Jack Daniels (Dale was in a memory-zapped haze due to bad time travel technology), which means that Jon Hutchins dies before this big ritual ever got going. So Yog-Soggoth manifesting his power and making Chad his vessel was not really a threat this game; the Black Wind that destroyed Marbury was never going to come. However, Nyarlathotep might have driven everyone insane and/or founded a new replacement Order of Unseen Wisdom in his honor. Alternatively, had the scum won early, it might have been a genuine "cleanse the evil bad people from Marbury and ignore the suspicious Nathan Greaves founding his own cult" deal which would have been more grey.
Role PMs and actual secrets to follow.
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[EvilTom]
Times are pretty good. You're certainly in a lucrative enough business. You're a made man of the Manzoni family, based out of New York... but that doesn't mean they don't have dealings elsewhere. There aren't many Italians in Boston - the Paddies run that show - but they're open-minded enough to be willing to work with their fellow Catholics when the price is right. As it happens, the Manzonis have some good government connections across the border in Quebec, where liquor production & transport is legal. And it's not like the wild Canada-New Hampshire border is well-patrolled. You've made good business shepherding shipments of liquor south into Boston, and sometimes all the way to New York.
It doesn't stop there, either. To further cut down on transit times, you've been in charge of moving some of the stills southward. As it happens, Marbury is almost perfect. It's an insular little town that few take notice of, and people let mind its own business. Plus, it's right next to a National Park where most people aren't allowed to visit! What could be more perfect than the government itself helping protect a bootlegging operation? And it's not like you're afraid of any of the silly legends about the dangers in the mountains... right?
Business has been good... maybe even a little too good. You run a fine side-business supplying Rosie's Country Inn with booze, and also help supply Abraham's Sundries (where Martin Andrews, aka Shale, works) with a perfectly legal grape juice "health tonic" (warning: keep refrigerated or it will turn into wine!). You don't want to draw attention to Marbury and make it the "get drunk here" capital of central New Hampshire, but since you're taking the lion's share of the profits here personally rather than sharing them with the family, it's hard to resist the temptation to sell as much as you can.
As for any personal secrets? Well. Despite your avowedly mercantilistic nature and genuine desire to rake in the money for the Manzonis, who've always been good to you... you're actually a died-in-wool socialist. Inherited from your parents, who were Italian anarchists who helped plan the assassination of the vile King Humbert II ("The Good" as the fawning conservatives called him), and had to leave Italy for America as a result. But you're actually far more pacifistic than your parents; you really buy into the whole brotherhood-of-man deal, and are sure that once everyone discovers the truth about socialism and the inherent dignity of mankind, the entire world will live together in a harmonious utopia. To that end, you spend your money on charities for the poor and supporting the budding Socialist Party in Boston and New York. You even have some pamphlets on hand that you've considered trying to spread in Marbury, just... the American countryside seems far less receptive to the message of socialism than the cities. Well, maybe you'll give spreading the gospel of Marx a shot. The true gospel, mind, not the silly dictatorship Russia has.
Everything took a dramatic turn for the worse two weeks ago, though. You left your associate Patrick Franchetti - an amiable Irish-Italian American who was your main contact with the Boston mob - in charge of running the still up in the mountains. A simple task that he'd never screwed up since you moved the stills in three months ago. Yet when you visited the stills, tired of waiting for him, there was no trace of him at all. None whatsoever. And yet the stills were untouched! ...it's not like Pat to just run off. Something must have... kidnapped him? ...killed him?
You finished at least half the batch yourself and drove to Boston to see if he returned on his own, but no such luck. You've returned to Marbury to find out what happened to him... and suddenly what seemed quaint before is now sinister. What malice lurks behind old widow Avil's eyes? What were those "civic organizations" like the Order of Unseen Wisdom really up to? Why does that 6-year old girl mockingly play hopscotch while Patrick lies moldering in an unmarked grave somewhere? The answer is obvious. They're all in on it. They're all guilty. They're the reason socialism isn't succeeding in America. This town is a terrible nest of evil... now, to distinguish the "extra evil" parts from the merely normal-evil parts, and punish them appropriately.
TL;DR
You are Town Cop! ... well. Town Paranoid Cop. Mod-guaranteed sanity.
* Each night, you may investigate one target. I will then tell you they are Scum. Because they are. Everyone's out to get you.
* So why bother? Well. There may be other side-effects of the investigation, though if there are, you don't know about them.
* While, should you die, the fact that you are paranoid (and knew that you were paranoid) will be revealed in the flip, rolecops will merely see you as a Cop.
* HIDDEN: Strips Docfather permanently had he investigated Excal, and would have sent noisy messages about "Someone has investigated you and gotten a SCUM result!" to any scum he investigated, who would hopefully freak out and treat him as a larger threat than he was.
Comments: Pretty much vanilla. Shame he didn't get a chance to freak out the scum team with his side effect. I do respect EvilTom's attempt to draw a Mafia NK... just... things had degenerated far enough that had Bardiche not shot him, he would have been the D3 lynch for sure. ESPECIALLY had he tried to explain why he got no useful result on N2.
--------------
[Magetastic]
February 11, 1928. A night you won't forget any time soon. The case was bog-simple - a wanna-be mafioso jumping bail. His daddy was a professor at Miskatonic University, so you figured the odds were good he might try and at least visit his family. Looked like nothing at their house, though, so you headed off to wait around the dad's offices... and wait. Huh, so posters about going to a talk given by a returning professor who'd been part of some excavation in British Iraq? ...whatever. Maybe you could get time for a quick snooze if you went over toward the shed with the crates from the expedition. Yeah, it doesn't seem like that boy's going to be about today anyway. You saw some scuttering about in the crates... insects? Huh, not entirely surprising. Well, naptime.
...zzz... huh, what's that odd feeling in your nose? As if.. something's... moving up it... ack!
KUŠU BARULTAG. UR MENANURAŠA GUR. Of course! Awake, you immediately threw yourself on your knees, for this means "My dog chain is now upon you and you will crawl. By the crown of heaven and earth, you will bow down before your master." After about two minutes of shoving your face into the ground and offering obeisance to your mysterious new master, you heard "NAMGAMEA NEÐA," which obviously means "Should there not be peace? Rest, gather strength." You were unconscious within seconds.
When you woke up about 12 hours later, it seemed that the... presence... in your head had grown more accustomed to you. Still, you've had an... entirely new set of priorities ever since the day you became slave to the cockroach that crawled up your nose on February 11. You researched the expedition that had brought the crates over, and as best you can tell, the roach is a holdover from a bygone era thousands of years ago as a psychic overlord of the ancient Sumerian civilization. Somehow, the roach was sealed in a collapse of one of its palaces. This foolish Miskatonic archaeology professor had unsealed this grave threat, and now the roach wants to... well you're not entirely sure what it wants to do, but "rule the world" seems almost like the safest option.
Some oddities. You don't know Ancient Sumerian, but it doesn't matter as you somehow understand it anyway... but not quite all? Location names, most notably, don't seem to "translate" at all. You're not sure if the roach is even that familiar with the American continent, leading to commands like GABAAL ÐU NABI DU AKKAD ("Seek out New Akkad; so let it be."). The roach is also thousands of years behind the times, and seems to ignore railroads, guns, the telegraph, etc. Its orders to you have been outright bizarre at times, not that you had much choice about complying with "Excavate this Ziggurat immediately" upon seeing the Chrysler Building in New York. On the bright side, the roach gives you... power. Certainly enabled you to deal with the cops asking you what you were doing with a shovel in the basement. The roach's power is pretty general and helps at really anything; notably, you barely seem to need to sleep anymore (or at least you don't notice the ill effects). You have superhuman endurance and physical might. By invoking the roach as you speak, YOU CAN SPEAK LIKE THIS and cow people - you can cheerfully intimidate even the toughest mafia thug. Though your bounty hunting has been... distracted, to say the least, by the new missions the roach is constantly giving you, the roach's abilities have made catching bounties considerably easier, at least.
Most recently, you were taking a light snooze when you were suddenly awakened at 4 AM with NIZU-PA NAMKUR-LA DU AORAKO, which means "Seek out the Altar of the Dark One - Aorako." While you of course agreed whole-heartedly and knew that finding this altar was a vital task that must be undertaken without delay... this still didn't help you have any idea of where to look. Perhaps realizing this, you suddenly could see some kind of aerial view, as if from a biplane... a circular stone altar, set next to sweeping mountains, with small towns to the south. Research of the maps at the Boston Public Library has made you come to the conclusion that the mountains you saw fit the description of the White Mountains of New Hampshire, and that the towns must have been Marbury and Paugus Mill. Well, that settles that. You must go to Marbury and investigate this altar. If it's like any of the other sites the roach has sent you to before, you'll get some new instructions on what to do once you find it.
Of course, not getting killed by whatever's going on in this town seems a pretty high priority too, and who knows, this whole... incident... with the murder might shake some facts loose from the townspeople about this Aorako.
As for your powers. As noted above, they're pretty general, but in-game, this means three things. You're incredibly suspicious (a Miller), Bulletproof (good luck killing you via normal meanings), and can also raise the dead... at least on the nights of a new moon.
Oh, and one other thing. You have figured out one bit of freedom from the roach. If you get drunk - really, really drunk - the roach's influence fades, and you don't feel any particular need to heed his commands. It's something you took advantage of on the night of October 23, and you're pretty sure you didn't kill anyone.
TL;DR
You are Town Bulletproof / Miller / Reviver ! Pretty much a necromancer.
* You are immune to normal nightkill attempts.
* You return "scum" to sane cops.
* You may revive someone on the night of the new moon, the height of your power - that would be Night 3. However, the stars are fickle. After Night 2 / at the beginning of Day 3, I will tell you either "The stars are right" or "The stars are silent." If the stars are right, the person you revive will lose whatever role they had, but they will become a vanilla townie again and be normal in all respects. If the stars refuse to cooperate, you will instead create a degenerate abomination. The person you revive will be voteless and disintegrate back into dust at the end of Day 4. They will, however, be able to talk on Day 4, so that's something.
** Some people may not be legal targets for revival - I'll tell you who, if so. Modkills / ragequits notably are not revivable. Lynch victims generally are revivable.
** In-game, there is a certain condition that will determine if "The stars are right." It is not random.
Comments: Suspicious roles like this where you don't know what exactly you can promise I think keep town honest - sometimes, really scummy "give me time" claims are actually true. Hellsnake was a really strong role - confirmed townies are awesome, and Hellsnake nearly confirms himself as well, which was balanced by being a Miller and not knowing how good his revival was. Making it balance on if scum took an early lynch was basically a self-correcting tool to try and make it less swingy. Had Hellsnake lived, he'd have nigh-assured Town reached Day 4 even with 3 mislynches + Bardiche hitting mostly town.
Flavor Comments: I stole this from "The Shab al-Hiri Roach." Play that game! It's a fun party game with storytelling! You're a bunch of professors jockeying for position and reputation at a college while also struggling with the question of whether to snort a psychic roach up your nose for ultimate power!
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[[Bobbin Cranbud]]
The past you suggested works fine for me. Feel free to add other touches to it as appropriate; I've added a bit to the end. For completeness' sake...
Peyton was in a production of The King in Yellow, playing the role of the King. He was so disturbed by the way the role seemed to subsume his personality even in rehearsals that he literally broke his leg to get out of performing in the show. His understudy took his place on opening night... and no one emerged from the theater alive.
Since the incident, Peyton hasn't been able to bring himself to go on stage. He is living off his meager savings as he obsessively investigates the occult. You've been at it for a year... chasing down a lot of leads, most of them going nowhere, but a few which actually seemed to be real. You've even been able to, in your own way, help out, you think. Notably, there was that time you sealed an invisible monster that had been terrorizing the countryside, and the one where you found the secret behind a haunted mansion. (Read: Two of the intro adventures to the CoC RPG which you've probably played!) You've learned that dabbling in magic has serious consequences, but sometimes there is no choice. You've learned a Flesh Ward spell, which you've convinced yourself you'll only cast once no matter what. You figure that should be plenty regardless, and you've seen what happens to people who dabble too much in the Mythos.
You're in Marbury on a tip that a supernatural killer is hiding here. You suspect from overheard questions that Nathan Graves is doing the same. Your hopes are not high of this going anywhere, though, as you aren't able to track down where this rumor came from at all, and this isn't the kind of rumor that would exactly spread easily. Where are the bodies, if so? And if not, how do people know he or she is hiding here? You figured you'd give the town a look then leave in a day if nothing happened. Well, something happened. You don't know what this Jon Hutchins was up to, but this "Order of Unseen Wisdom" sounds like no good to you.
TL;DR
You are Town One-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard! You can help people out and take the hits they can't. Hopefully.
* You are immune to the first normal nightkill attempt made on you this game. Once you've been targeted once, this immunity will go away. (In other words, if both a doctor and a nightkill target you, you'll still lose the bulletproof.)
* You may choose one person to guard each night. Any normal nightkills that would have targeted them will target you instead. Neither the person who initiated the nightkill nor the person you guarded will be informed of your action. This does not interfere or interact with other roles that target the person.
* Be warned that certain types of nightkills might bypass either or both your powers.
Comments: Cranbud's character was the classic investigator, and worked fine for me. Easy to sneak in any power he rolled up, too, via magic. With a mix of good and evil characters on both sides - albeit mostly good on scum, and mostly shady on town - Cranbud's character was probably the most straight-up good guy. Sorry I didn't write more lines for you, by the way, was just nervous about writing too much on somebody else's RPG character. I know how I am with mine!
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[[Makkotah]]
August 28, 1907. You, Jon Hutchins, and Barnaby Miller up in the mountains at your favorite spot, near the standing stones. "We'll all be away, but... let's swear to return here every year." You carved some mementos into the rocks, including "Jack Jon Barn Forever." Marbury Senior High was only blueprints and an idea back then, so boarding school was the only option for those who wanted to go beyond 8th grade.
1911. You attend both Jon and Barn's marriages, serving as the best man to both of them. You knew that you'd never stop teasing Jon for the amazing miracle of Edna giving birth to Chad Hutchins (Sir Alex) a mere 5 months after the marriage - truly an act of God! Heh heh.
May 1, 1917. The favorite spot in the mountains, near the standing stones. "Class I for the draft is 18-31. Even at 24 we're all still prime draft material. Let's join on our own terms... that way we'll all still be together, right? The Krauts won't know what hit 'em."
October 31, 1918, somewhere in the Argonne Forest. Barn's wheezes grew more and more irregular, and you practically have to carry him to keep him moving. Jon led the way, occasionally consulting his stained and ripped map. "There's supposed to be a hermit somewhere around here that even the Germans left his house completely untouched. He's supposed to be a healer of last resort. We've gotta try it, the corpman's dead. And... my French is better than yours, so let me do the talking." You were too tired to protest.
Dawn, November 1, 1918. "No! Jack! Don't!" Jon had obviously lost his nerve. As if this was easy for you. No, the timing had not been "bien," as the hermit suggested, it was bad, mal, very mal. Whatever this red-eyed monstrosity was, it wasn't Barn... or it wasn't Barn enough. Not anymore. You took aim with your M1917 BAR... and squeezed the trigger. You'll figure out what to tell his wife later.
April 4, 1921. A surprise... Jon has finally come home? And he's acting like nothing ever went wrong, either. He gave you a great bear hug upon seeing you. "It's been too long, Jack! I can't wait to tell you what I've discovered from traveling the world. It's deep, but I think I really understand the truth about the universe now. Things... are going to change around here." Jon joined the Order of Unseen Wisdom shortly thereafter, convinced you to join with him, and suggested some new rites and ceremonies to add that he'd learned from his travels.
August 10, 1924. "Chad's looking real bad... is a recurrence of the Spanish flu? The doc's not sure... then again... there is that other option..." Jon's voice trails off into silence.
August 19, 1924. The funeral. "It is with great regret that what the Lord gives with one hand, he takes with the other. While our hearts are gladdened with Chad's sudden recovery, we must accept that the Lord in his wisdom also saw fit to call his dear mother Edna home to Him, and we must not forget in our sorrow that she too shall live everlastingly in the Glory of the Lord." The look on Jon's face as the minister read the eulogy was... inscrutably blank.
April 21, 1928. The Order lodge. Jon was furious. "You can't leave now! You know that the May-Eve ceremony is in a week!" The argument lasted a full hour. "Eh, go on, ya washed-up drunk. Come back when you've sobered up and found your courage again. It's not like you're worth anything to anyone else." The funny thing is, you actually were sober for that argument, and the only way you'd been getting through the normal ceremonies before was with liberal application of moonshine.
October 23, 1928. So Jon's called you to the lodge? Surprised he was able to swallow his pride. "Look, truth is, I'm going to need you for the ceremony this Hallow's Eve, Jack. You took the oath, the true oath. I'll do whatever's necessary to make it worth your while. This is too important to fail." Huh, was his new favorite disciple, Martin Andrews (Shale), not up to the task? You pressed him for details. "Well. You know the truth of it, Jack. It is the eternal law of this world that blood must be paid for with blood. Even the Christian Bible says so. Hebrews, 9:22. I tried to open the gate just two weeks ago, but that bootlegger I found prowling around our special place at the standing stones was clearly insufficient. We'll need more, much more to finish the ritual properly. Settle the bargain, and all." You'd read the books he'd brought from abroad back in 1922, and you knew damn well which ritual he was talking about now, and why he'd need expert support for it.
That's when you suddenly pointed out the window in alarm, and he turned to look.
Then you stabbed him in the back with his own ceremonial dagger he'd left on the table.
Asshole.
Well, you probably saved the town from disaster, though you doubt they'll appreciate you for it, as you'll probably live the rest of your life in jail if you admit to saving everyone. And you're not sure just how far open the gate inched if Jon already tried the ritual two weeks ago. Something might already have been freed.
And now... it's time to get drunk. Really, really drunk.
TL;DR
You are Town Miller! Being the actual killer on "Night 0" makes you pretty suspicious, even if you have no plans for further murders.
* You return opposite results to cops - so "scum" to sane cops and "town" to insane cops.
Comments: Role power: Booby prize. Flavor: Winnar. I had always intended the Miller to be the murderer, but was afraid I'd have to switch it up if somebody wildly inappropriate rolled it up (like Peyton or Nikolai).
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[Bardiche]
You're... Ronald Dale. Yeah. Dale. That sounds right. You just need to stretch a bit, walk around some, get a feel for things... man.
Worst. Hangover. Ever.
Your head is pounding like a drum; that moonshine must have been a bad batch. What happened last night? What happened recently, for that matter? You can't even recall drinking the damn stuff. Where are you and what are you doing here... oh, right. Marbury. To.. to write something. Your novel! Yeah, that's it. What was it about again? ...it was... uh... something. But it's not like you were getting anywhere on it anyway. Scenic retreat your foot.
You absentmindedly open a curtain to take a look around outside, maybe admire some of that scenery. ... what? You're taken aback by the greenish meadows and evergreens in the background. It felt like you were expecting a cactus or rock formations or something like that. Were you in the desert recently? You... can't recall. Maybe.
Christ. This day is horrible so far. Maybe you just need coffee, and lots of it. Hoover's the Republican nominee for President? What an awful choice. He'll screw things up, you're sure of it. ...don't see much else familiar, though. None of these local New Hampshire politicians ring a bell. ...wasn't there somebody named Monica in the news lately? You don't see anything on that, though.
A look at the calendar brings another wave of nausea. It's... October 24? Which means you only have 8 days until... November 1. A pit forms in your stomach at the thought. November 1st is bad... darkness... something horrible.
Are you forgetting something? Don't you have something you need to do by that day?
And how do you "know" something's bad set to happen then, anyway? Did you... plan it yourself? Nah, that's crazy talk. It'll all come together soon enough. You just know that something needs to be done, and fast. Better... go into town and investigate. Maybe you'll remember things better if you jog your memory a bit first.
TL;DR
You are Town Cop! You... know things. You're not sure why. Spend long enough at night looking at somebody, and you'll figure out /recall some key details which might help determine what they're up to.
* Each night, you investigate one target. I will tell you "Town," "Scum," or "Third-Party."
* This is Cthulu mafia, so I can't give you much guarantee that any role in the game works exactly as advertised. I will say that I guarantee that you are not a naive cop or rando-cop.
* From your "Night 0" pre-investigation knowledge, you have found out that the scum possess a godfather or godfather variant. (This is not known by other townies.) So, be alert.
(Role-playing wise, you couldn't even begin to make a list of townspeople you know and have met while at home, but as you meet them in person, you find that you can sort of interact okay on instinct. You can't remember someone's name if you think about it, but if you just strike up a conversation, it might pop out naturally. Well, for the characters who aren't travellers who just popped into town yesterday, at least, those you obviously never knew.)
* Hidden: Vigs his targets, too.
Comments: Game was partially designed around him, of course. And Bardiche was right he was the serial killer clue given to Nathan Greaves... he'd have gotten that clue regardless of the role he ended up earning, so heh. Also role worked really well - of course the Time Traveller is going to be both smart and have researched everything she could before, so she's just recalling research.
For flavor, I'll post the memories Bardiche got each night in a bit. They were by far the most extensive night result PMs, so I was moderately disappointed when Bardiche didn't charge into the thread on Day 3 after Alex commented how "My role PM doesn't say my name will change on Day 3, does that make me less scummy?" and start yabbering about the "mistake" with his name.
Also, her plot was basically "Cthulu Quantum Leap." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Leap_%28TV_series%29 ) Now with less misty 60s nostalgia and more madness, a good trade. As Shale notes, consciousness-transferal is already semi-established in the Mythos, so doing it with misguided science and Mythos artifacts works.
I suggested to Bardiche that despire Dale's death, it's possible Mei-Fan's consciousness made it back to 1998, albeit with her Sanity severely damaged. Of course, it's possible some of Ronald Dale came with her too.... Bardiche wasn't happy about that. ;-) So no, Mei-Fan makes it back to the future and lives happily ever after. Just... wondering, somedays, if she really has escaped Dale... wait Bard's going to kill me again never mind.
--------
[Eternal Lurker]
You like Marbury. Nice people, nice scenery, nice hunting. Especially the hunting part. A national park right next door? Great!
You always were a bit of a loner. Your family comes from the deep countryside, even farther north... the kind of place where the nearest town is a full day's ride away. Long ago, your family at least figured out a way to work with the wild while still showing nature the supremacy of Man. While, as the youngest of three brothers, you decided it was best to move out on your own, you still performed the ancient rite of House Callahan. You hunted a wolf, personally, caught it, and while it was still alive cut its hide and mixed your blood in. And thus you made the belt you will wear today. Oh, no, despite outside appearances, it is not leather, though you've tanned the outside to try and make it look good. It's more like... some kind of... flesh. Living flesh, even; it's warm to the touch. Usually tossed loosely around your trousers, it only takes a few seconds to tighten it and concentrate a bit, and then... freedom. There's nothing more delicious than handing yourself over to your baser instincts, and just letting yourself go to explore, to prowl, and to feed. You're not 100% sure what you look like when you do this - you never have the presence of mind to find a clear lake and take a good look - but you know you usually find yourself on all fours soon enough as you athletically leap about. To avoid shocking the locals, you generally keep these little prowls to the nighttime, though you have the belt on hand at all times in case of emergency.
What does this mean? Well, you're pretty much invulnerable at night, at least to a normal killer. Good luck catching up with you to shoot you, let alone find you. In fact, finding you is unusually difficult - whatever strange beast you become, it's not obviously recognizable as Ty Calahan anyway. Though this is a mixed blessing at best, as someone checking up on this might wonder how you disappear so effectively at night.
As for your original post, sorry, no great inheritance waiting in the wings. In fact, you're in a bit of monetary trouble right now. The "disappearing" horses do mean you're living a bit beyond your means at the moment when you factor in the fading carriage market and the need to replace horses for when you let yourself loose to the power of the belt too close to the pasture grounds. Not to mention that alcohol, being illegal, is certainly a bit pricey if you're spending some of your day at Rosie's basement, where forbidden pleasures can be found, albeit expensively. At least your normal dinner is generally "free," though.
TL;DR
You are Town Bulletproof Shadow!
* You are immune to normal nightkill attempts.
* You cannot be watched or tracked. Watchers or Trackers who try will be informed they couldn't find you and that you appear to be immune to them. Of course you don't actually have any night actions, so this will serve mostly to freak them out.
(Also: This was RANDOMLY GENERATED. I swear. Congrats on getting the best flavor match by sheer accident, since you said outright in your original post "is never seen after sundown." Well, you're a Shadow! Congrats!)
Comments: I was a little leery about a werewolf in the Cthulu setting at first (Eternal Lurker suggested this to me), but dang if he didn't get the perfect role for it. Also, SHADOW IN A GAME WITH NO TRACKERS OR WATCHERS. Just a bit of a paranoia to toss in.
------
[Sir Alex]
Aw, shucks. This is gonna be a bit embarrassin', but it's time to talk about your pa, Jon Hutchins. He's a right old fellow, a bit distracted, but he's always had your best interests at heart. You don't really remember too much about your early childhood, but you were born in 1911, and know your ma Edna raised you from '17 to '21. Your dad was a hero who fought the Germans overseas! It was a bit strange he took so long to come back, but apparently he traveled the world a bit while he could. You don't doubt that he missed your mother and you every second he was gone, though. It was '24 that ma got sick... you always felt a little guilty over that. See, you got sick first. You were delirious... can't really remember much of anything... but you've always wondered if you gave your flu to ma somehow. Or that it was somehow your fault, that you got better and she didn't. Pa was never quite the same after that, either. He was a lot more serious, and threw himself into the Order a bunch more.
You're not sure you were ever quite right in the head after that illness, either. You've heard that the Spanish flu back from '18 could do that to people, mess 'em up in the brain. You've always felt like you were walking in a fog, somehow.
But no more.
Two weeks ago... something happened. The fog parted, and you felt a warmth within you. What... was this? Whatever you claimed before about not perhaps being the smartest around certainly wasn't true, anymore. You felt a new clarity, with everything... well, almost everything... coming into focus. As if you were now closer to being complete. Whatever that means. It still might be useful to fake being a mere football player, but your mental faculties are fully the equal of your mighty physical ones now.
You soon discovered it wasn't just that. The basic strategy of the football team is "hand you the ball, watch as it takes three tackles to take you down." This works pretty well for a tiny team from a tiny town, but even you can only take so much without proper support. But oddly enough, you seem to be able to spread your physical capabilities around, now. Why, with a touch, spindly lineman Nate Woodbury was soon shrugging off onrushing opponents as easily as yourself. He even looked a bit different, as if he was a new man. You're a bit worried to not go too crazy with this- you want the team to do well enough to win the State Championships, but you don't want to be outshone by the other players!
You hadn't really noticed at the time, but the more you thought about it, you remembered that your dad was out for some Order event the same night where you felt the new warmth within you. He came back in a pretty evil mood, too, muttering about how it was all a failure. Call it a wild intuitive leap, but you think that perhaps he succeeded more than he knew? Perhaps he didn't fail after all, but merely directed whatever power he was calling down somewhere else? You really have no idea, though. You do know he was obsessively reading over his books lately, and got the impression that there'd be another ritual shortly. He always did take both May-Eve and Hallows-Eve pretty seriously, and that'd be in about a week. You know that Martin Andrews (Shale) became a good friend of your father's and member of the Order about 5 and a half months ago, and that Ethan Hayles (Yoshiken) was a casual member of the Order of Unseen Wisdom. Your dad used to be friends with Jack Daniels (Makkotah) more, too, but you think they've been more distant since Jack turned to drink.
You had football practice last night; plenty of witnesses to that. Your father never came home, which you were used to happening occasionally. This usually meant your father slept at the Lodge because it'd be unsafe to drive or ride in the dark, muddy ditches that pass for roads at night. After he still didn't show up, you fetched the Sheriff to drive you out to the Lodge to go look. That's when you two found the body.
Well, it looks like you're probably excused from school today, at least.
[[OPTIONAL: I don't know how far into the realm of comedy you want to play the character. If you do want to go for more humor - or perhaps just for some make-conversation on Day 1 - in honor of a certain other character you've played, Chad can be forming the "O.S.O." club at Marbury Senior High. Its noble mission: to find any aliens, time travelers, or witches, recruit them into the club, and then use their power to make the Marbury Ospreys football team UNSTOPPABLE. Overwhelm States, Ospreys!]]
TL;DR
You are Town Doctor! ...probably for the best to act like this power is a health tonic coming from Abe's Sundries, and not admit it's from your transformative touch.
* Each night, you may protect one target. This protection will save them from normal nightkill attempts. (Certain nightkills may ignore this.) In the unlikely event of two nightkills targeting the same person you protect, they will die (short of a 2nd doctor or the like). Your target will not be informed they were doc'd (though they will, of course, be informed if they are attacked at night yet mysteriously survive.).
* You may protect yourself only once.
* Like cop, I cannot entirely guarantee your "sanity." Your treatment may, or may not, have other side effects.
HIDDEN: Returns Mod-Guaranteed Sanity-Independent Town to cops, removes Miller status with doc'ing.
Comments: Well, Alex basically offered to re-enact "The Dunwich Horror" with his character bio, so who am I not to oblige? Thanks for giving the best plot hook to sink teeth into, basically. I wasn't sure how Alex would play Chad - the innocent, the good guy, the cackling nut - but I think his style worked. Mysterious yet good at heart, I think? Hard to say.
I was a little worried when Alex's bio implied Chad wasn't the swiftest one, so I made sure in the Role PM to give Alex permission to use his full faculties and still be "in character." Had Alex survived AND picked a darker path for his character, it was possible to get the "worst" ending in which the original timeline basically comes about anyway - Nyaralathotep is defeated, Chad completes his father's ritual to attain ultimate power, which turns out to be highly overrated when it basically turns him into a monster.
Also note that Pietro would have had a useful cop investigation of Alex had he copped him.
------------
[Hunter Sopko]
You always liked Americans. You went to school in Philadelphia, visited the Great Plains, ran a shop in Los Angeles for a year. An industrious, honest, and... gullible people, always looking to get ahead. Your fine American accent and traveling ways made you well-placed to take up the task given to you by your father: spy like crazy on American naval installations in the runup to the Great War and during it. Port workers and sailors are notoriously bad at keeping secrets when in a bar. You made it back to the States just in time, before the War actually broke out, and never had much paper trail tying you to your German Intelligence father. ...of course, the War didn't go so well for Germany, and your father disappeared sometime in early 1919. You're not sure from what; starvation or robbery seems likely.
But look on the bright side! In the ten years since, you've become more like a roving merchant of information. Travel from one town, spread some gossip, see what people are talking about, and move on to the next. You wish Germany could afford your services more, but they're currently stuck with that wimptastic democracy the French insisted upon. So, you've moved on to... other... people willing to pay for information. You pride yourself on gathering information yourself, so you're pretty sure you've sold to the Communist Russians, the Japanese, and the mob. You have no particular reason to be in Marbury aside from curiosity and a chance to trade information in a rather insulated towns; they can hide surprising, and lucrative, secrets. For starters, the alcohol flows more freely here than you'd expect... that Pietro fellow (EvilTom)'s fault? Could be an interesting tidbit.
Currently you're based out of the New Hampshire area. You expect you'll move shortly, as you always do. But your primitive 1928-esque "truck" does contain a fine selection of goodies for the discerning customer. Miniature trains, ancient Indian artifacts, cure-all tonics (main ingredient: not alcohol, that'd be illegal), musty old books on how to learn French and German, you've got it all. Yup, you're a pretty great guy. Your most treasured possessions are four portraits you have at wherever your current home is: Augustus Caesar, Jesus, Otto von Bismarck, and then, largest of all, a self-portrait you had commissioned at great expense while in New York.
Yeah, life is pretty good.
TL;DR
You are Town Megalomaniac! In other words, a... Vigilante Supercop Doctor Bulletproof Triplevoter (???)
* You are possibly the greatest man to ever live. Your charisma could create a religion, your martial prowess is unstoppable, your ability to aid those in need tear-jerking. It's kind of odd that you aren't President or Kaiser or General, but... but... you don't like to think about that too much.
* In theory, you choose a target at night. You supercop them. If they are town, you doc them. If they are scum, you shoot them. Any nightkill attempts against you fail. During the day, your magnetic personality and irrefutable arguments means that every vote of yours counts triple.
* I'll tell you right now not to get your hopes up about your votes actually being triplecounted. In your saner moments, you realize that the odds look bad that your night abilities are anywhere near what you imagine them to be, as well. You're not entirely sure where your real talents lay; maybe you'll figure it out as the game goes on. For Day 1 and probably Night 1 as well, you can safely consider yourself vanilla. I will inform you if you eventually get a night action or this status changes. It's entirely possible that you might end the game vanilla.
* Yes, the (???) is part of your role title.
HIDDEN: Here's the max power Kyle could have attained via stealing books and reading them, Maya Shrodinger style.
* Archivist (Moses's books)
* One-Shot Doctor (Chad)
* One-Shot Counter-Psychologist (Ethan Hayles' psych books)
* One-Shot Bulletproof (Peyton, the Flesh Ward spell)
* One-Shot Cop (Some detective novel from Dale, despite it really being Mei-Fan who was the Cop)
Comments: Basically a jack-of-all-trades backup inventor. Very important for town had Bardiche been lynched, since he'd still have a one-shot of cop.
-----------
[Alice]
You are exactly what you appear to be - a traveling Russian mathematician / musician looking to get by in the States. It's tricky, with too many people assuming you're some kind of communist spy, when nothing could be farther from the truth, but you still generally enjoy life and your travels.
Unfortunately, you have enemies. There's been a terrible case of mistaken identity. A Mr. Theodoros ("Ted") Koupitoris of Boston believes that you are his brother Nick Koupitoris, who helps out as a cook at his Greek-American diner in Boston. Hah! As if a cultured man like yourself would be stuck in such a profession for any length of time. Well, you can't deny that you appear to look similar to this poor Mr. Koupitoris, who apparently went a little crazy, but it's still a pretty silly mistake. I mean, you never liked Greece much, while Russia - now that's a fine homeland. And sure, you know how to speak Greek, but that's just because it's got a connection to some fine math history - Archimedes, Pythagoras, etc. Anyway, Ted wants to stick his brother in the Marbury Sanitarium, but he thinks that you're him! Despite the fact that you are clearly of sound mind! You're not sure where the real Nick Koupitoris is, but that's not really your problem.
So what are you doing here in Marbury? Well. Ted had you transported by carriage to the Sanitarium. Luckily for you, the driver stopped at a farm house south of Marbury to chat with the owner - they must have been old friends. After waiting for about 15 minutes, with those two nowhere in sight and apparently deep in conversation inside the house, you decided to be bold and just get out and leave. It's not like you were restrained in the carriage, thankfully. Your plan had been to head north briefly to get the tracks headed the wrong way, then secretly double back south, but you must have gotten mixed up and gone south then north, because you found yourself in Marbury itself. Luckily, they probably won't look for you here... they might not look for you at all, really. Unfortunately you lack cash to travel effectively, so you've taken up a temporary job at Rosie's Country Inn providing musical entertainment and helping clean up. You're mildly worried that there's a bounty hunter in town, Bill Hellsnake (Magetastic), but he can't be coming for you, right?
You do have one notable edge. One of your fondest friends in the States who helped you out when you were first here is a Patriarch of the Orthodox Church... Russian Orthodox, of course, not Greek. He gave you a strange stone right around the time of your arrival and shortly before the misunderstanding with Ted Koupitoris. You're not sure exactly how the stone works, but you've definitely felt different ever since you've been holding it. You think you can read other people's auras! Maybe! And you know that you can't die so long as you hold the stone. You think. You don't really want to test that. Just goes to prove why the Russian Orthodox Church is awesome, and the Greek Orthodox Church a pale imitation of it. Though it's kinda funny that you can't remember the name of the Patriarch who gave you the stone... just a very friendly, bearded guy who was always only the Patriarch. What a wonderful man he is.
TL;DR
You are Town... Rolecop (?) Miller Self-Reviver. Note the ? after Rolecop.
* Your shiny stone of power gives you impressions of people. From trying it out on your neighbors, dog, general store guy, etc. it seems to mostly tell you someone's "role," like "Shopkeeper," and the color of their aura ("orange"). On the other hand it claimed harmless old widow Avil to be a "Murderer" with a yellow aura so who knows. (The aura color is strictly flavor, I'll say right now.)
* This role is a trap.
* You may investigate one person a night, sneak a good view of them, concentrate real hard, and see what impressions you get. This may generally tend to be their role... but maybe not. And even if it is the role, you'll only get a name, not a full explanation. And even if that name is correct, well, see the opening post to this game - don't make too many assumptions about roles and the setup, "Dark Cultist" might be a harmless townie with delusions of grandeur.
* Have I mentioned that this role is a trap? Who knows where this stone came from, or how it works, or anything. Any patterns you find could well be exploited by the real villains. It might almost be best to pretend you're vanilla and not try and read too much into potentially tainted knowledge. Then again, it's not like that's going to stop you from investigating people anyway, right?
* If you should die, your flip will be revealed (including alignment and powers), but you will automatically be back in action the next day. This includes lynches and normal nightkills.
* Be aware that some nightkills might negate this ability. Further, if you were to be roleblocked, you would not only be unable to revive from a simultaneous nightkill - if you were lynched the next day, you would still be unable to revive yourself.
* You are an unjustly hunted man. You return opposite results to cops - so "scum" to sane cops and "town" to insane cops.
Comments: I couldn't even begin to think what a Russian immigrant to the US would be doing in small-town New Hampshire, especially a somewhat insular small town. So I went with "insane Greek cook from Boston" instead. The rolecoppery was very dangerous this game - doctors are not your friends, Kyle is Town, Excal's Docfather would have returned anything Excal wanted that wasn't a Mafia role (so "Kindly Priest" say), etc. The Miller actually wasn't so bad - had Bardiche shot him, he'd have just popped up as a confirmed Townie immediately. It only mattered vs. Kyle's one-shot cop backup had it come to that, and solving the "4 from the inside, 6 from the outside" puzzle.
----
[Shale]
This morning was a perfectly boring, ordinary morning. You start making some coffee, put some eggs on the griddle, looked a bit at yesterday's copy of the Nashua Telegraph - just like most every day. Like... huh. What happened yesterday, anyway? Or last week? Or the past ten years? Now that you think about it, nothing but a stream of normal, boring days with nothing of note. Really nothing. This never bothered you before, so why is it bothering you now? ...or maybe you actually did do things these past years, and have since forgotten them? Nah, that's crazy talk. You must have just led a boring life.
When you headed into town to man the shop, the murder of Jon Hutchins was all over the news. You went down to the lodge in a truck with the sheriff to find out more. The lodge seemed pretty familiar, like you'd been there many times... you probably have, actually, just you can't recall much of what you did there. The biggest surprise was definitely the body, though. A noble frame, ended too soon. What a wonderful, clever, honest, and friendly person Jon must have been. It's hard to put your finger on why, but though you can't remember much about what exactly Mr. Hutchins did or didn't do, you can tell he was a great man worthy of trust and loyalty. Such a tragic loss! His murder must be avenged. You're a bit scared for your own life - any enemy of his is probably an enemy of yours, and all humanity, really. You should probably work on getting the murderer (murderers?) before they get you.
Oh, and one other thing. You know, deep in your soul, that you must never allow yourself to be put at the mercy of the vilest conspiracy ever to haunt mankind. They hide in plain sight, advising the leaders of the world, and disposing of those who anger them in the guise of their greatest weapon, "disease." You speak, of course, of the Order of Caduceus... known to the common man as "doctors." An ancient cult stretching back to the time of the Greeks, founded by the fanatics Galen and Hippocrates, and even still binding themselves to one another by their "oath." But they won't get you. Oh, no. You've trained yourself to be able to avoid and shrug off any action attempted on you by anyone even resembling a doctor. The only mystery is why the general public still hasn't connected the dots as to why the doctor's strongholds, the hospitals, are so full of death yet continue their docile march into the enemy's hands.
TL;DR
You are Town Docproof! Sure, they may claim to save people, but you know the horrible truth and avoid them at all costs.
* Any action on you from a Doctor, or from affiliated "doctor-like" roles (Paranoid Doctor, etc.), fails. Both you and the doctor who tried the action will be informed of the failure as well as that you appear to be immune to them.
(RP note: To the extent that you investigate yourself, you'll find evidence at Abraham's Sundries, the shop where you work, that you arrived in Marbury on May 2, about 5 and a half months ago. Though since your clearest memories are of this morning, it feels like you've been here forever. Anything further, well, the other townies might know what you've been up to? Probably nothing, for a boring guy like yourself.)
Comments: Actually Bulletproof for this game, though Bardiche could still kill him. Yay surprise.
Andrews was a homonculus created by Hutchins to serve him, which could have explained a lot of powers. Think Ennis from Baccano! for those that saw that. Docproof was easy enough to explain - any doctor would immediately detect that he wasn't human.
Also, apparently the perfect servant being has sideburns.
---------------
[Xanth]
Ah, Marbury. A nice quiet town to live out your retirement, and do some occasional trout fishing in the mountain streams. Of course, Marbury probably wouldn't be your first choice. You actually were a professor at Miskatonic University back in the day... an ichthyologist, actually. Nothing like fishing to help you better know about fish. You'd probably have stayed in a nice urbane college town, with tea socials and erudite guests, if... if only they'd believe you! See, one of your 'side' specialties was analysis of giant species of fish - sharks, sunfish, sturgeons, and so on. Yet many of the creatures and tales you've collected from returning sailors have been derided as mad fantasies. Well. You doubt you'll ever be able to find any megasquid at sea at your age, but you might have more luck with lake-based organisms. You've heard a variety of strange tales about odd sightings at Squam Lake, Silver Lake, Ossipee Lake... you figure there'll be plenty of time to examine them all. Maybe you can return in triumph with a nice carcass of the Marbury Leviathan of the Lakes to show your fellow professors who'd doubted you! Or maybe you'll just publish on your own and stay here in New Hampshire. Let them stew.
Frustrated by your lack of success in finding any native New Hampshire sea creatures, you bought a strange guppy that you couldn't identify off a suspicious sailor on a trip to Portsmouth a month or so ago. He claimed it was an exotic fish from the Mekong Delta in French Indochina, perhaps a child of the legendary sea beast there the French called the Tarrasque in honor of the more famous Tarrasque from the South of France? You threw it in one of the local lakes, and have found that you can easily summon it with the right kind of bait... blood. It's been growing alarmingly fast, too; it might well eat all the fish of Silver Lake. You've been tossing in some extra food for it to better watch and measure it, but its size means that you'll have to start stealing horses from the Callahan stables soon to keep it going. If this is even a wise idea. Maybe you should try and poison it? But how? It's an unknown species, and you don't want to kill the entire lake.
Well, you haven't had much luck in finding your fabled lake monsters so far, but you did see one odd thing recently. You were up fishing in the mountains two weeks ago, and you heard what sounded like... chanting? Not many people doing so, though. Maybe 2-3. Was there some kind of religious event going on? And then... a single scream? In a moment of cowardice you felt ashamed of later, you told yourself somebody probably had merely cut themselves with a knife, and went back to fishing. Now that there's been a murder, though, you have to wonder. Maybe something more happened then?
Last night (October 23) you were fishing near the Lodge of the Order of Unseen Wisdom. It's unfortunately made you a suspect in the murder, but you don't know anything. You certainly didn't hear anything.
You're not sure how you could help out... except perhaps by going back through your trove of books you took with you from the halls of academe? You've read most of them already, but could probably use a refresher. Plus, you got a few books on the occult from fellow retiring Prof. Brown, who for some reason was frantic and wanted to get rid of them. No idea why he had such a pale look on his face while he did so. There might be an occult connection here, after all. Well... it's not clear if if reading books help, but it'll likely help more than a fish would.
TL;DR
You are Town Archivist! This is pretty much a classic hero-type in Lovecraft stories.
* Each night, you may read one book from your library. Some books will tell you nothing relevant. Some books may give flavor clues about the "Dark Secrets" other characters have, but not really help with any in-game. At least four books will give you concrete yet minor information about the game. For example, you might find out "The Scum have a Framer," "There is a Jester somewhere in the game," or some unusual rule that scum / third party must abide by. Consider it moderately likely this will reduce to vanilla; I don't intend to hand out information that reduces the game to a logic puzzle.
* Despite it being incredibly flavorful, there are no negative consequences for reading any of the books, so there's no reason not to do so each night. At worst I will tell you that the terrible secrets found within a book have stretched your sanity to its limits, and encourage you to include at least one post of ranting and raving the next day, but this is ultimately optional.
As for anony accounts... hey, you already have one! danniteowl/BoosterShots , though you'll need to change the display name and clear the avatar. Didn't do it myself because I wasn't sure if you'd take advantage of it.
Here's the list of books you have available, in rough chronological order.
* Suetonius's The Twelve Caesars, specifically the chapters on the rule of Tiberius->Caligula->Claudius->Nero; Tiberius's secluded manor on Capri where he practiced disreputable dealings, Caligula's madness, Claudius's mysterious poisoning, etc.
* Qanoon-E-Islam, seems to be an English translation of an Arab work on gods and djinns? Doesn't seem very "Islamic" from what little you know of the Mohammadeans, though.
* François de La Rochefoucauld's Maximes. A sarcastic French noble's quotes and thoughts on life?
* Cultes des Goules, a French book of claimed black magic rituals?
* A purported captain's log of Sir John Franklin, who searched for the Northwest Passage, was stranded on Baffin Island during the Arctic Winter, went insane, and starved.
* Lewis Carrol's Alice in Wonderland, in which a young girl discovers a strange realm where nothing makes sense yet runs on its own internal logic.
* Charles Darwin's The Descent of Man, an unpublished draft copy. Even the sanitized, public version had shocking ideas about the secret origins of mankind.
* James Frazer's The Golden Bough. Proposes a common link between all religions and cults worshiping the same gods with the same story in different guises.
* Sigmund Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams, a description of the shadowed internal mental state of humanity, and methods for curing ailments of the brain.
* The Davidson Record, a screenplay. As far as you know, no movie by this name ever came out. Seems to be about a man who measured his house and found it 1 inch larger on the inside than when measured from the outside.
If you later feel the need to roleclaim and want to post the list for input on your next night action, I'm willing to suspend the normal rules about no C&P-ing from the mod a bit, though feel free to paraphrase some if you have time. If you do copy & paste, though, you can, but be sure to remind people the disclaimer that "I could have cooked up this roleclaim and asked SnowFire to make up some supporting material." (I'll note my general willingness to do this in the rules post on Day 1.)
Comments: Ah yes, the traditional "investigator" role from the Call of Cthulu roleplaying game, who solves the case via reading the cult's holy books and chanting the invocation backward. Also gives town a fighting chance of figuring
-
[lmm]
Animals. Hmph. Yeah, animals are all right. Better, at least. They scream too, but not in English.
Your story about not taking up your father's trade might be true now, but that doesn't mean you don't know *how* to treat humans if necessary. Why, you did complete a year at Johns Hopkins, after all, beginning to learn the modern scientific art of medicine. That year alone made you better than the many quacks still about who learned medicine in the dark ages before 1900, and who would still look quizzically and someone talking about "germs." Of course, then the War started. You signed up as a corpsman and were sent overseas to France.
Conditions were truly terrible. In some ways, you were luckier than others, in that your field hospital was set up inside an actual building rather than tents in the mud. Oublié Cathedral in Amiens was turned into a hospital, but things went from bad to worse. Insufficient supplies meant that triage was neccessary... which is where Docteur Luzancy stepped in. "Why don't you let me take the hopeless cases," he said in his accented English. "There's a treatment of last resort we're trying in the basement. I won't lie, many don't survive... but some do, and make positively amazing recoveries." And, fool that you were, you went along with the fiend, as well as his excuses for why you couldn't see the basement yourself where his accent suddenly got worse and his explanations were in French.
It was pure happenstance that you barged into the basement anyway. Luzancy had forgotten some papers to sign off on, and a new shipment of morphine was needed. That's when you saw the... abomination... that Luzancy had been feeding. A twisted pile of pulsating corpses... or were they corpses? They still had the rose of health.. as if they were somehow still alive as they were devoured by the monster, yet also becoming its body for it to grow... a lesser man would have ran screaming on the spot. But you were not that man. No, you did the right thing. The necessary thing. Luzancy had merely been in the bathroom; you returned to the first floor, took him off to a private room to discuss a new problem, and shot him in time with an artillery burst so that no one would be suspicious. You dragged his body downstairs, tossed it into the pit, then set about stealing whatever munitions you could find to toss into the pit with him as you dodged the occasional tentacle coming for your legs. The explosion helped, but you doubt it finished the monster off. For that, you needed help. By default you'd have asked the Church... except this abomination was already in one of their basements? Luckily, a friend of yours from John Hopkins who'd been interested in the occult - which you dismissed as a mere sideshow at the time - was in England, you knew. Rupert Basington. You contacted him, and sure enough, he was able to put you in contact with people who could help. In fact, he was part of the people who could help. You were inducted into Rupert's secret society as a Knight in honor of your actions... the society Sapientes Gladio, the sword of knowledge.
You served with Sapientes Gladio for a time after the war helping put to rest some of the horrors that had been loosed during the chaos, but this job was ultimately not for you. No one ever leaves Sapientes Gladio, but they can become inactive, so you decided to "retire" at the young age of 26 to Marbury. Where you would never work on humans again, if given the chance. Still, you suspect the suggestion to live in Marbury was not entirely innocent, but rather a ploy to keep you active - you soon found that Marbury had an unusually high level of cult activity as well. You've tried to ignore it as best you can, but you eventually reached the point where you could stand to do so no longer. The Order of Unseen Wisdom's May-Eve fires were unusually hot 5 months ago, and this Jon Hutchins fellow was clearly up to no good. He traveled the world "searching for wisdom" from 1918-21, allegedly, and then came back to head up the Order of Unseen Wisdom... this sounds suspiciously like an evil version of your own tale. You could wait no longer; you contacted your superiors and told them that Marbury needed to be purged of its supernatural elements. You made a list of targets, which was... the members of "Town", as well as some of the suspicious newcomers who stopped by today. There might be a few innocents mixed in with the bunch, but better to lose a few of them than risk not killing the truly dangerous ones, no? Sapientes Gladio has sent "journalist" Nathan Graves to help you, and it seems the Inquisition is in on this as well, as they've sent Seamus O'Malley. Graves somehow convinced townie cultist Ethan Hayles to join up as well, though you have no idea how. (Read: Your scumbuddies are Excal, Roukanken, and Yoshiken.)
Jon Hutchins, Order leader, would have been first on your list to quietly remove, but, alas, someone else has beaten you to the punch. Why'd they have to do it all showily and set Town on guard? A simple disappearance, possibly with a faked note about a mistress, would have done a far better job. Sigh. Well, no way out but to do this the hard way, then.
You're still a doctor. You're also something of a spy; in the course of your "treatment," you can learn a lot about what a person is up to. This mission will be tough - the "Town" surely has an arsenal of supernatural powers - but with steely discipline and science, you can win. You will also be attacking the Town members in their weak spot- sanity. Why go for a straight-up fight against a demon-powered monster when you can simply drive its master crazy? If pressed about your own secrets, you can honestly tell the tale about WWI, and then make up whatever you like about how stealing Luzancy's research gave you whatever powers you want to claim.
TL;DR
You are Scum Roledoc!
* You are a Doctor. Each night, pick a target that isn't you; they will be protected from a single normal nightkill.
* You are also a Rolecop. Your special treatment allows you to figure out what your targets are really up to. This will include useful rolenames, but not necessarily everything (for example, you'll just see "Cop" or "Doctor" and won't see sanities /variants.)
* No, you can't only Rolecop a townie and not Doc them as well.
* You do not have the capability to go on a standard nightkill. See "Gameplay for scum" for more; if you do perform a nightkill it'll be via gaslighting and borrowing the advanced pscyhology books Yoshiken uses.
Comments: Along with Peyton, a straight-up hero, basically. I expected Scum to use the roledoc power aggressively on town, as if they'd found Bard earlier, it'd definitely have helped. Rolecopping Nikolai was also handy... but they traded that for "make Hargreaves look good by clearing him" rather than offing him to avoid the Self-Reviver.
---------------
[Yoshiken]
Well hullo there! I have a silly story for you. Secretly, the good townspeople of Marbury worship ancient, evil deities. So a secret organization decides to come in and wipe them out. A Knight Commander of the organization, Nathan Greaves, walks right up to you and says "I need your help, Ethan. Only your psychology textbooks which you studied for fun in lieu of going to college can do the trick!"
"Certainly," you reply. "Why not? It's a chance to put the one bit of larnin' I always enjoyed to good use!" Since your seemingly harmless neighbors actually have POWERFUL MAGIC protecting them, getting them in the mind is of course the best way to proceed! What could go wrong, especially when Greaves' other friends Seamus O'Malley and town vet Sam Hargreaves are helping? (Read: Your scumbuddies are Excal, Roukanken, and lmm.)
Well. Of course it's silly! Make-believe is like that. What everyone else doesn't know is that they are merely figments of your imagination - well, yours and Jon Hutchin's. This is all a game, a dream. After you wake up, you'll go back to normal Marbury, where everything is just as it seems, a town of aw' shucks good folk.
Here's how it is in the real world. Despite being a bit of a bumpkin whose plots never were as fruitful as some of the richer planters in the area, you had some pride. Sure, you didn't finish high school, but you enjoyed a few topics. Notably, you find the human mind fascinating... all the things that make it work, and that make it malfunction. You didn't really have anyone to talk with it in town, but you do stop by Boston occasionally in the Winter to pick up supplies and visit some relatives, and you always tried to pick up some of the latest psychology books. Freud... Jung... Adler... Charcot... Binet... William James... who says you're uncultured?! Everyone should have some hobby they're an expert in.
For fun and society, you also joined the Order of Unseen Wisdom. Sure there was some chanting and swearing of blood oaths and the like, but you were just there as something to do. It can get lonely when you're unmarried on a farm. Anyway, Hutchins was supposed to have some big ritual he was trying to set up in a week or so. After the meeting, you joked about how you bet you could convince half the town to lynch the other half given the right trigger. Would my own foul murder qualify, Jon asked? "After all, I'm a leading citizen of town, yet who knows what secrets the Order hides?" You replied "Of course! That'd be perfect. I'd take ya up on your bet in a split second... if only there was a way." Well, you've found a way! Just have a dream about the murder happening and then trying to get the other townspeople to lynch each other senselessly.
...it... it IS kinda weird how real, and how long, this dream feels. You can definitely sense the presence of another entity... Jon? You're not sure. Don't two people sometimes dream the same dream simultaneously? There's definitely another force in your head... perhaps controlling the "opposition?" But eh, shucks, it can't be that big a deal. Carry on! It's not like anyone's REALLY going to die or go crazy.
TL;DR
You are Scum Psychologist!
* Using psychological dirty tricks, you are very good at "gaslighting" people - driving them mad. See the "Gameplay for scum" explanation. If town is on the ball it may not matter, but your nightkills are more likely to be misinterpreted as a helpful doc attempt, a granting of a one-shot cop ability for the next night, or something else positive. It's less likely to be reported into the thread, at least.
* You do not have the capability to go on a standard nightkill.
Comments: Scum decided to intentionally not use Yoshi's kill night 1 so that Xanth would mislead town about how their kills work, then use Yoshi constnatly thereafter. It did confuse town on Day 3, at least, since not everyone believed Chad was slowkilled. Also a basically decent person, sent totally crazy by Greaves.
----------------
[Excal]
So. You're an odd jobs man. Who came from Boston on up to Marbury, lookin' for some work.
Heh heh. Hopefully people won't think too hard about this one, since it's precisely the reverse of what most people do - the country farm boys who head into Boston to get employed at odds & ends. Which is not to say that your reason for being here is false. No, no, you are in fact here to do some jobs, and some odd ones indeed. Specifically: wipe out this nest of witches, warlocks, and dark heretics as per your position as a priest in the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, aka "The Inquisition."
It's really pretty simple. While not exactly an affiliate (it includes plenty of non-Catholics), the Inquisition has liasoned before with the secret society "Sapientes Gladio," a motley bunch theoretically out to save the world from various unholy threats. Disturbingly, they do this by sometimes co-opting said threats and including them in the organization, but you suppose it takes one to know one. Sam Hargreaves, the veterinarian but also a Knight of Sapientes Gladio, reported some unusual activity and rituals recently, and that the town was in general a nest of heresy. You've decided to come visit to help end the threat personally. Nathan Greaves, a Knight Commander, was the one who told you about the incidents and will be accompanying you in your mission. You're not sure about why the farmer Ethan Hayles is working with you, but he seems to be some mercenary / local contact recruited by Greaves for the occasion? (Read: Your scumbuddies are Yoshiken, Roukanken, and lmm.)
You've trained at the best Jesuit colleges. While you only spent a year at seminary, you did spend a good deal of time learning the healing arts and science, to better serve the Church with. This should help protect you from any nighttime attacks against you so long as you're not distracted. As an extra safeguard, you happen to be carrying the true fingerbone of Saint Aodhamair.
Your "secret," if asked for one, can plausibly be a half-truth - that you ARE affiliated with the Inquisition, but not with the secret cult (Sapientes Gladio) of killers, and are working to apprehend them. Or, if town decides that all of "Town" are magical outlaws somehow, you can claim to have stolen the fingerbone of the Saint to attain your powers. Your call.
TL;DR
You are Scum Docfather!
* You are a Doctor. Each night, pick any target; they will be protected from a single normal nightkill.
* If you pick yourself, you will additionally return "Town" to sane cops (or "Scum" to insane ones).
* You do not have the capability to go on a standard nightkill. See "Gameplay for scum" for more; if you do perform a nightkill it'll be via gaslighting and borrowing the advanced pscyhology books Yoshiken uses.
Hidden: Also returns whatever he wants to Rolecops, so long as it isn't an established Mafia role (i.e. "Consulting Detective" is fine, "Miller Cop" is not)
Comments: Was pretty surprised when Excal fakeclaimed Miller, but I see the logic - one of scum needed to fakeclaim to throw chaos into the works, and it would have been rather dangerous for the others.
------------
[Roukanken]
You are Nathan Graves, crusading journalist! Sure, most of the stories you've published have been in some far-off small-town newspaper that's inaccessible right now, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Oh, no. You're here in Marbury doing a special investigation. You have information that a wanted fugitive has escaped to Marbury! Maybe that's who performed the murder last night? It'll clearly be the scoop of the century! Well, you'll certainly do all you can to find the killer.
...well, that's what you want the crazed cultists of Marbury (call them "Town") to think, anyway. You are actually Nathan Greaves, Knight Commander of Sapientes Gladio, a secret organization dedicated to combating supernatural threats to mankind. An inactive member (nobody ever retires from Sapientes Gladio), Sam Hargreaves, sent off a letter about foul nighttime activities of a local cult here, and general strange goings-on. You're here to cleanse whatever suspicious elements might be set to cause the calamity, which basically means Town. Sadly, since these cultists probably are way too powerful to take on straight combat, you'll be hitting the problem from the side - you've recruited Ethan Hayles, a townsman skilled in "Advanced Psychology" who'll be helping drive whatever little sanity remains from the cultists away. A Catholic Church Inquisitor, Seamus O'Malley, is also tagging along for some heretic suppression, and more importantly to provide a kind and harmless face to your suspicious cabal (i.e. is the Godfather). (Read: Your scumbuddies are Excal, lmm, and Yoshiken.)
...welll, that's what you want the earnest fools of Sapientes Gladio (call them "Scum") to think, anyway. You are actually Nathan Greaves, avatar of Nyarlthotep, the Crawling Chaos, the god of 999 faces! "Psychology" to drive men mad? Pah, what a trifle! The mere sight of your true form is enough to send many to wail like babes. You gave a little taste of this to poor Ethan Hayles. You drove him completely and utterly mad; currently he believes that this entire scenario is a game, a dream. (He wouldn't exactly be willing to try and kill his fellow townies otherwise.) You also vested a bit of your power in him to enhance his "psychology" and spread the madness around more effectively; he is a font of insanity at the moment, spreading his own delusions. You suppose that you could have given that power to yourself, but you find it more fun to drive people crazy with a bit more despair involved.
Why are you even here? Mostly because it's fun. Unlike the other Old Ones, you actually care about and like humanity! You like them in the way that a cat likes to play with mice, mind, but at least you pay attention. Most of the others barely notice humanity as if they were insects, which is a terrible waste. Your senses are tuned enough to see that Sam was right; there was a failed, or at least incomplete, attempt to Call Yoh-Soggoth's attention to Marbury about 20 days ago. Now that would be no fun. You're pretty much the God who roams Earth here, so you genuinely do want to get rid of some cultists and not let the competition be summoned, no? Still, while there is a work element, as noted above this is mostly for pleasure. Your occupation traveling the country as a "journalist" has given you plenty of other opportunites to toy with men's minds for pleasure, too.
Despite your true nature, you won't be invoking any of your greater powers this time, or at least not yet; it just wouldn't be sporting. Well, not entirely. You do enjoy raising the dead to watch people's horrified reactions, so you're okay with doing that, and your magics also can render your other scumbuddies practically invulnerable to physical assault. You've fed them some line about how all your work is "scientific," though, so you'll pretend to be some sort of doctor who came to a great discovery. If you "die" you'll just let the townies think you're dead and continue to enjoy the show from afar. Basically, this means that you are, for purposes of the game, a loyal scumteam member with no third party agenda. You'll just get to have a bit of fun at the end of the game regardless of who "wins," though you would earnestly prefer Sapientes Gladio to have this temporary, trifling victory.
Being Nyarlthotep is your real Dark Secret, but this is probably a bit heavy for Town. If Town figures out that they're all connected with the supernatural, well, your powers mean that you can make pretty much any fakesecret work. Perhaps some tainted lineage? You can certainly transform your arm into a tentacle or make an extra face pop out of your back if you need to. Or amnesia's a classic. Everyone with a forgotten past, desperately searching it out while traveling the country as a journalist, is a good guy, right?
TL;DR
You are Scum Reviver Doctor!
* You are a Doctor. Each night, pick a target that isn't you; they will be protected from a single normal nightkill.
* Additionally, you may target dead characters, who will then "get better." Modkills and ragequits are illegal targets, though insane people are legal targets (they get a temporary dose of Prozac as well). While dead scum / third parties are theoretically legal targets, if you choose to use your doc attempt in this way the only result will be me posting some flavor about how "ZZZ is back!" followed by the townspeople beating him down again with clubs repeatedly before he can break the town's combo. You have two options:
** Revive a terrible mockery of the dead townie which will be innately distrusted by all (read: Voteless and roleless). This abomination will collapse back into dust at the close of a single day.
** Revive them for real. They will be roleless, but have a vote and don't have a time-limit on their life. Use with extreme caution. They are not your zombie slaves, and further, because there are no alignment-changing powers in the game, they are a 100% guaranteed townie that you'll probably need to re-kill. Letting too many confirmed or nearly-confirmed townies pile up is a sure way for scum to lose, so understand that you're pulling something of a gambit here.
* You do not have the capability to go on a standard nightkill. See "Gameplay for scum" for more; if you do perform a nightkill it'll be via gaslighting and borrowing the advanced pscyhology books Yoshiken uses.
Comments: To the extent that mod-prodding was involved, I was very surprised scum went with the Reviver gambit. It could have worked, though! Just... 2 confirmed townies in a 5 town : 3 scum PLYLO is bad but workable. 2 confirmed townies in a 4 town: 2 scum endgame PLYLO is horrible. Basically, I think scum needed Excal alive and for the game to have ended earlier for it to have worked.
-------
**Gameplay for scum
(This section has gone to all scumteam members.)
The scum setup is a little weird. None of you have the ability to perform normal night kills. As a result, scum only have slowkills this game as you push town into the spiraling abyss of madness. Whoever you drive crazy night 1 will only die night 2, etc. This is a pretty notable disadvantage! This gums up your ability to quickly off useful town roles, so being proactive in finding and wiping them out is probably helpful. On the bright side town will probably not be expecting this, so you may be able to baffle town with flimflam and get them looking the wrong direction. Also, roles like "town doctor" become nearly irrelevant to you; no matter what physical gifts your targets may have received, you know that they have a profound weakness in the mind.
If Yoshiken, the psychologist, goes on the kill I will send a message along the following lines to the person being driven mad:
"You feel different this morning. It's all coming together now, and you feel as if you're on the brink of some great revelation. It's as if your senses are sharper and you're drinking in all the little things you never noticed before - pieces fit together, and you see a Great Plan at work. You're not sure exactly what this means, or why it's happening now, but you think somebody may be helping you from the shadows (read: this was probably the result of an action last night)."
If anyone else goes on the kill, I will be far more explicit about the gaslighting attempt, and it won't sound like a helpful doctor's visit.
"You feel different this morning. It's all falling apart. You feel like a wreck. Things are subtly... wrong. Everything's wrong. You remember a long conversation last night, but forget the details. You realize that you can't escape the past forever - [[INSERT BABBLE ABOUT THEIR DARK SECRET CATCHING UP WITH THEM HERE]]. The more paranoid part of you suspects that this was due to somebody manipulating events from the shadows (read: this depression is the result of an action last night) but if so, so what? You know the terrible truth now anyway, and all that remains is to clean up any unfinished business before the darkness comes."
Note that assuming town eventually starts publicizing these messages and figures out that they're connected to the madness deaths, this will make a LYLO with few people even chancier than normal. A 3 person LYLO, for example, will have at least one person claiming to be slowkilled, meaning that the remaining scum member will be in a 50/50 standoff with one person cleared no matter whether they fakeclaim a slowkill targeted at them or not. So... if possible, you probably don't want to let it get that far.
You must attempt a slowkill each night.
Scumchat is on irc.lunarnet.org ; room #marburymafia, password madness.
(And then a summary of all scumroles followed; might as well let everyone see the powers, at least. No reason for scum not to share this amongst each other anyway, and less bookkeeping.)
-
I reserve the right to skip some really boring PMs that were just an investigation result.
Day 1
--
[Bardiche]
Peyton Hadley is TOWN.
As you sleep, you dream... some memories, seemingly at random, seem to float to the top... but they're strange. Gauzy, as if from another reality.
You're... in the passenger seat of a car. You're on a huge road... in the desert? Yes, there's distinctive tan rock formations in dusty terrain to the side, at least. Another man is driving. He says "This'll be the chance of a lifetime. I'm really excited you're getting this opportunity." He puts his hand on your shoulder.
Another scene... disconnected? You can't be sure. You're in a cramped office filled with books. A man in a suit takes his glasses off, then puts them back on and clears his throat. "We can't publish this, Mr. Dale. And you don't want us to."
...and through it all.. you think you can hear something else, in-between moments? Almost like a yipping. It's unsettling.
--
Peyton
** You were attacked last night! **
Thankfully, your little bit of magic saved you from the psycho. Shame you couldn't get a good look at him, he came at you from nowhere and in the darkness, and you only bought yourself time to escape. However, your one shot of bulletproof is now gone. You'd rather die than go crazy dabbling with too much magic.
To be clear, you personally were attacked, not Moses Bike.
You may still bodyguard someone at night if you like, but understand that you will likely die now if you "guess" right. You probably don't want to do this unless you're damn sure you're BGing a townie with a useful role, but I suppose you know that already.
Flavor-wise, you've continued your investigation. You took a look around the Order of Unseen Wisdom's lodge, and the more you saw, the less you liked. It definitely shows signs of knowing or unknowing Mythos influence from what you can glean about its rituals. They also seemed to be big fans of May-Eve (aka Walpurgis Nacht) and Hallow's Eve as holidays, so April 31 and October 31 - generally setting large fires up in the mountains somewhere to celebrate. You're not sure what -else- they did at those times, though. Horrible as it is to say, maybe it was for the best this Jon Hutchins fellow died, if he was the de-facto leader of it?
--
[Xanth]
The Davidson Report - The screenplay is written like a documentary, though you have no idea if the events are real. Additionally, somebody else seems to have read it first, and has marked it up with footnotes and criticisms (noting, for example, seeming contradictions between parts of the movie, the fact that no fixed address is given for the house, etc.). Will Davidson returns to America and his wife Karen after travelling the Middle East as a journalist for National Geographic, taking pictures. However, their nice new home in Rhode Island - said to be an old mansion dating back to Revolutionary times, though refurbished - is a little strange. After a new door appears that seemingly opens to nowhere, Will carefully measures his house - and finds it 1 inch larger on the inside than the outside.
Things go downhill as time passes. Strange sounds are heard about the house. Rather than go nowhere, the door now seems to lead to a hallway... an extending hallway that should by all rights be "outside." Will eventually recruits friends to help him explore his own house, including his lower-class brother Tom who'd always been in Will's shadow. They find a vast, unending Labyrinth beneath the house, organized around a central spiralling staircase that seems to go on forever.
After this point, the writing in the screenplay sharply changes (and the footnotes agree). Will's brother Tom kidnaps Karen and takes her to the Labyrinth underneath and says he was the only one who loved her. Will goes downstairs himself, fights and wins a duel with Tom, and then triumphantly takes Karen back to his kids while Tom falls into an endless Abyss. The doors disappear and the closing frame is "and they lived happily ever after." It seems wildly out of tone with the rest of the piece... is there a "real" ending somewhere else? Was this some kind of edit to make the story sellable to Hollywood?
You find yourself compelled to measure the citizens of Marbury themselves, wondering if you would come to some shocking discovery yourself. Using a slide rule, a logarithmic chart, the town directory, and a guest list from the Inn, you come to the following conclusion:
When measured from the inside, the number of non-town-aligned people is four. But when measured from the outside, the number of non-town-aligned people is either five or six!
They don't match up! If only you could get a more precise reading from the outside.
Also. Something else in the night occurrences department, unrelated to your choice of books (though it probably means you were in just the right mood for some spooky reading):
You feel different this morning. It's all falling apart. You feel like a wreck. Things are subtly... wrong. Everything's wrong. You remember a long conversation last night, but forget the details. You realize that you can't escape the past forever. You had a vision - the past? A potential future? of a vast underwater city beneath the lake, populated by monstrosities that are clearly elder versions of the "guppy" you dropped into Silver Lake. The fish's name is Rath'napula, and you can hear its voracious call. And it calls for you. You realize that only you can deal with this menace you have unleashed upon New Hampshire, and the time draws near when you must face it. The more paranoid part of you suspects that this was due to somebody manipulating events from the shadows (read: this depression is the result of an action last night) but if so, so what? You know the terrible truth now anyway, and all that remains is to clean up any unfinished business before the darkness comes.
Usual reminder about no C&Ping yadda yadda ya.
--
[Pietro]
Hellsnake is SCUM (shock, I know).
---
[Roukanken]
Your NK action succeeded. That was fun, driving Moses insane.
Nice piece on the Callahan lynching. Consider yourself permissioned to write stories every night. Bonus points if you can work in some incomprehensible secret code, though try and keep it only harmless flavor if you do. In fact, I might let you keep writing stories even after your "death" should it come. We'll see.
You're supposed to be investigating this criminal on the loose, right? Well suppose I should feed you some info, though feel free to make up whatever you like as far as your "investigation." Well. You actually HAVE heard rumors that there's some kind of secret communist network in New England... possibly spies for Russia, too? Hard to say. Of course, there's obviously a criminal conspiracy here too - see the unusually abundant supply of health tonic - though it's not clear if this is connected.
As perhaps more interesting grist for the mill, you decide to use a bit of your greater powers to check and see how many deaths your fellow townspeople have at their hands. Leaves a nice aura stain you've grown fond of measuring, you find. Seems at least some of the people here fought in the Great War, which would explain some of the higher numbers. (These numbers are current as of Day 0, so no, you can't use this to try and figure out vigs or SKs).
0. Jon Hutchins (16)
1. Pietro Giovanni (0)
2. William Hellsnake (3)
3. Peyton Hadley (1)
4. Nathan Greaves (1,412,584 counting only humans and not non-human sentients on other planets. What can you say, those Egyptian slaves are easy to get killed accidentally back in the day.)
5. Seamus O'Malley (2)
6. Jack Daniels (4)
7. Ronald Dale (6)
8. Ethan Hayles (0)
9. Tyrone Callahan (0, but lots of animal kills)
10. Chad Hutchins (0)
11. Kyle Handley (0)
12. Samuel Hargreaves (1 or 578, depending on how you count. You know from his Sapientes Gladio records that he blew up an abominable monster of ~577 dying soldiers fused together, yet the bodies were still 'alive'.)
13. Nikolai Kolmogorov (0)
14. Martin Andrews (2)
15. Moses Bike (0)
Needless to say, no, you do not have permission to C&P this list directly, not that you would want to especially considering entries 4 and 12! Might provide decent writeup bait, though. Maybe pretend to have only found one or two of the above responses. (Oh and needless to say usual reminder that the flavor backstory for these characters is irrelevant to which roles they got, so it's entirely possible for characters with a "0" to have killing powers. Like, say, for Mr. Hayles!) (And also, I haven't specified life histories for all these characters, so many of 'em won't exactly "know" how many bodies they have on them. I wouldn't press the point too hard.)
(Also comment from SnowFire now not in PM: Don't take those numbers too seriously, I was bored.)
--
[Alice]
Moses is an Archivist with a red aura. (As a reminder the aura color is just flavor.)
--
[Sir Alex]
Your action succeeded. By default, you can assume your actions succeed in the future if I don't send you a message, which... in general doesn't say much, aside from you not being roleblocked and the target not being untargetable somehow. Since you aren't informed if the doc'ing mattered, of course, merely if it happened.
In flavor notes. You can definitely feel some other 'presence' in Marbury... a powerful presence. Yet it's subtle. Basically, you think that there may be some other 'vessel' of potential similar to yourself in town right now... perhaps even unwitting of his or her own nature. You can't tell more than that as it stands, however.
Day 2
[Jack Daniels]
Congratulations, you are no longer a Miller!
You're not sure what happened, exactly, but you find yourself more at ease, more charismatic, and more trustworthy than before. You think someone working in the shadows did it for you? But you feel like positively a "new man." There's a spring in your step, a smile on your face... it's like real good liquor that doesn't give a hangover.
In role-terms, someone used an ability on you that removes Miller. There may have been other effects, but you're not sure. So you return town to sane cops and scum to insane cops, now. You are now a Vanilla Townie.
In flavor update notes... it's tricky, and maybe you should have noticed it before, but Sam Hargreaves has some mannerisms and drunken-song knowledge you might associate with veterans from the Great War. Kinda odd since you don't recall him ever talking about it, though you're not sure he exactly kept it a secret if he really did participate.
--
[Peyton Hadley]
Received. Your action succeeded, but nothing happened.
Also, once you reach the site of the stone altar for Jon's funeral... this is a place of power. A ley point, or something. There's some standing stones that look quite ancient around; you suspect that's why the altar was built here. You imagine someone could funnel a large amount of mystical power here given the right tools... and you really don't want to think too hard about the "right tools" to attract the interest of the nasty Mythos creatures are.
--
[Bardiche]
Pietro was TOWN.
As you... sleep? Dream? Lie in some half-awake state? ...more memories come back to you...
--
You're in a small, bare room. A German soldier is in front of you, disarmed, in POW clothing.
"Je comprends que vous parlez un peu français, Monsieur Schmidt. C'est bien ... ils ne me laisse jamais interroger ceux de l'Allemagne seule. Ils n'ont pas fait permettez-moi de vous interroger, que ce soit. Je suis venu ici sur mon propre ... ce qui signifie que cette réunion ne s'est jamais produit. Et cela me donne une certaine... liberté."
(I understand that you speak some French, Mr. Schmidt. That's good... they never let me interrogate the German-only ones. They didn't actually let me interrogate you, either. I came here on my own... which means this meeting never happened. And this gives me a degree of... freedom.)
His eyes widen as you slowly withdraw your dagger from your belt.
You smile.
--
You're watching a movie... a very long movie. Strangely long, but it's exciting. And romantic! It's about the Titanic disaster... the person in the seat next to you puts his hand over your shoulder. Ah, very comforting... wait. His hand? Yeah, duh, it was your boyfriend! But?! Huh?! You aren't... you aren't one of those homosexuals now, are you? No way. You're sure of it.
There's been a mix-up somewhere... a mistake. You've figured it out now!
You are actually Mei-Fan Chen! You know deep in your soul that this is the truth, and it merely felt like you were Roland Dale. You're not really him, of course. How silly of you.
Now you realize that, from a strictly rational perspective, this seems like an odd statement. After all, you look like... well, however you imagined your character looking, presumably some variant of "white male in his 30s or 40s," which is not anywhere close to "Chinese woman of dating age." And you do seem to know your way around Marbury, and it sure seems like Roland Dale definitely exists (you found some earlier novels Dale wrote in your house, like "Advent of the Age" and "Jeremiah's Children"). But hey, whatever. You know the truth now, and it was just a little error, some confusion, no big deal. You're sure that everyone will understand your situation if you just explain it to them calmly; you're certainly not crazy.
And oh yes! You can speak Chinese now. Flows naturally from the tongue and all. Of course there aren't any Chinese speakers around in Marbury to confirm you're not just speaking gibberish but it's definitely Chinese! You know it! (I recommend Google Translate if you want to pepper up your posts at all.)
(Note: If you decide to bring this up in thread, you should probably mention OOC that you look exactly the same as you did yesterday, and there was no transformation or anything. Additionally, sometimes you speak in your normal "Roland Dale" voice, and other times you adopt a curious and practically unidentifiable accent of English. Uses some seemingly made-up words at times, and uses other words in odd ways. It's comprehensible of course but very strange.)
And anyway, you shouldn't get too distracted. You remember that you came here for a reason. November 1! You must stop it! November 1 is bad, you definitely recall that. It's the reason for your mission.
On a less happy note... the yipping from the shadows continues. Especially at night. It seems to be growing louder... yelps and snarls and grrs now. As you were walking home, you walked past Deputy Webster's house. Its eyes... pure evil. You realized that this dog wanted nothing more than to devour you. Luckily you've taken to walking around armed lately, so you shot the terrible thing and then ran off. A close call.
(P.S. From SnowFire: The dog phobia is the Hounds of Tindalos. Also, Bardiche, that was Dale talking in French to the German soldier, not the German soldier talking to Dale.)
--
[Sir Alex]
Your night action succeeded.
Also... you feel different this morning. It's all coming together now, and you feel as if you're on the brink of some great revelation. It's as if your senses are sharper and you're drinking in all the little things you never noticed before - pieces fit together, and you see a Great Plan at work. You're not sure exactly what this means, or why it's happening now, but you think somebody may be helping you from the shadows (read: this was probably the result of an action last night, and isn't a flavor sidequest update).
In football news, on second thought to that IRC PM I sent awhile back, this is the era before lights, so Saturday would be the day of the Big Game (=Day 4).
--
[Nikolai / Alice]
Kyle Handley is a Vigilante Supercop Doctor Bulletproof Triplevoter (???).
As noted in IRC chat, Triplevoter for me isn't something you can turn off, so you can safely say this result is a little fuzzy.
--
[EvilTom]
Moses is SCUM and Moses is DEAD and you are DEAD and your ghost sees Moses' flip which was TOWN after all so oops but at least you couldn't tell anyone?
--
[Xanth]
The first 3/4 of the log are rather dry if still horrifying reading, as the Erebus and Terror (evocative names) sail into the frozen Northwest Passage, and supplies slowly dwindle. By the last quarter, however, supplies are dangerously low, and the ships become locked in ice. Out of desperation, Franklin sends a band of sailors out across the island to forage and perhaps seek an overland way to safety. Only 2 sailors make it back out of this mini-expedition, tired and exhausted, ranting and raving about a cavern they sheletered in that opened up to a vast and terrifying underground city. The city seemed empty, but the proportions were... all... wrong. It was clearly not built for human life. The sailors started to disappear, as well. It was all the remaining two could manage to get back alive, as those who survived the hunger and chill started to disappear mysteriously.
Franklin ignores the sailors' advice, though, and decides to troop off for the underground city in hope that it might at least provide warmth. He also notes that he will start a new log to describe his time there, and leave this log back in the ship. It stops there. (P.S. This is vaguely based on "At The Mountains of Madness" if you've got some time to burn.)
It occurs to you that if the team had dogs to pull their sleds and sledges, they'd probably be far less exhausted, and be able to haul more baggage and food effectively. It seemed that by the end they were inexplicably dragging around desks and ignoring food, clearly signs of strange priorities. Yeah, dogs would have helped a lot. Animals in general. Animals know a lot, especially in out of the way places. Someone able to communicate with animals... you bet they'd know the score.
You realize that Veterinarian Samuel Hargreaves knows the scum's secret, whether he realizes it consciously or not.
(As a note, yeah, this is one of the more random revelations, hard to guess from flavor alone. Alas, it seems you won't be able to put Mr. Hargreaves on the spot and ask him what he knows.)
---
Roukanken
Heh. As a tip, since you asked for a fake flavorclaim, if you get called on this by perceptive town... you might want to jump straight into Excal's earlier post and play the "Town is the bad guys, Scum are the good guys" card. Or at the very least emphasize the "Hey, Mage was town and he was slave to a psychic roach overlord" card. You can also go with "Sure, of course I'm Nyarlthotep, I've killed millions. Mom & Pop never believed me, and mocked me for dropping out of high school to study those arcane books, but I know I'm really a Great Elder One! Who can't seem to access his power for some reason. Anyway I am totally not crazy and this is a rational position to have."
(This was after he told me about the code in his newspaper article)
--
lmm
Your action succeeded! ...maybe? Jack Daniels is Vanilla, i.e. roleless.
Yes, this is a role madness game where I said there would be nobody would be vanilla.
Day 3
---
[Sopko]
After Yoshi's death, you raided HIS stash of books too, and cackling at your awesomeness, you gained some psychological know-how amazingly fast. What this means is... you now have a One-shot Psychology-doc skill yourself, though this will be a counter-psychology skill. If you contact someone on the same night as someone tries to "gaslight" them, you can utilize quick psychological crisis-counseling repair techniques yourself. You may target yourself as well, which is the equivalent of snuggling up with a warm cup of cocoa and refusing to talk to strangers.
This skill does nothing to people on the second night of an insanity-kill, who will be too far gone. So you need to time it correctly. The one-shot is used up whether it mattered or not. It's irrelevant against a "normal" nightkill, just stops insanity slowkills. And, of course, I can't guarantee that there even ARE any more "insanity" based slowkillers in the game.
Also. Chad is also dead now! You also have a One-shot Doctor ability now, that will stop normal nightkills. You suspected that he'd been using his "abilities" on the football team, and have stolen enough artifacts from his locker to probably put a little bit of "Hutchins protection" on someone. You may protect yourself.
Alice in Wonderland:
A children's novel? Well, maybe, but it might also have deeper relevance... you find the novel strangely touching and relevant to your own situation. Strange things are afoot, yet events seem to play by some deep yet hidden ruleset, almost as if this were all some creation by faraway gods for their own amusement. The town seems to be acting like the Red Queen, cheerfully executing any who displease it... you're not sure what that implies.
Oddly enough, you find most interesting the first chapter, which causes you to think back to Day 1 and 2, the first chapter of your own story. The white rabbit complains that "I'm Late, I'm Late!" Nothing really happened over night then, did it? Aha! The scum, like the Rabbit, must have been late! Of course! All scum kills are late, that is, slowkills. Off with their heads! This sloppiness is but one more reason to disdain the petty cultists of Marbury, or whatever this threat is.
--
One other note. As you'll see, Xanth is back from the dead. On second thought, please don't C&P the list of books with explanatory notes I gave you (though spelling out in prose all 10 books is still fine, natch). It should still be trivially easy to confirm that you really did steal his library; I will verify in the thread if necessary that I would not hand out private details of another role for a generic "help me lie" request, and that this information would only be accessible if another person's role specifically allowed it. In other words, you might be scum with the power to peer closely at dead player's roles or inherit dead player's roles, but it's definitely some kind of power afoot if you're able to match lists. Just tread somewhat carefully, and bug me if you want a post checked for not having modkill stuff. (I don't imagine it'll be a problem for you, since you accused Xanth of nearly pulling an Otter before!)
---
[Bardiche]
Hello again Mei-Fan.
As you investigate Chad, it is hard to not feel shameful, somehow. Chad... yeah, he's important... but guilty himself? An All-American football player like that? No, he's the victim here! You're a horrible person for ever doubting him. Chad is MOD-GUARANTEED SANITY-INDEPENDENT TOWN. You bet even that weird Pietro fellow would have seen Chad for what he is, which is... the future of America.
....sniff... they leave us so soon...
(Of course, Alex is mod-guaranteed town for an entirely different reason too, as you can see his flip today.)
More memories float to the top of your consciousness...
---
It's the man in the cramped office with books again.
"I'm sorry, Mr. Dale. This is just... unacceptable. In fact, we insist that you don't go elsewhere to attempt to get this published. A novel like this would blacken your name and get your earlier novels banned... earlier novels that make both of us a good deal of money, as I'm sure you'll agree. Just keep this work, uh, private, and between friends. I can assure you that no one much but your friends would want to read a novel that would make the Marquis de Sade blush, in any case."
---
Ah, your undergrad years. Studying physics at the University of Shanghai.... you were always fine with working 16 hours a day, but you did appreciate being able to scale back to a mere 14 hours when you went to CalTech for grad school. Certainly gave you some time to spend with the cuter other physics students! A buyer's market there, with men outnumbering women by a good deal. Yeah, good times. Plus, you'll show them all that Einstein just didn't take his theories far enough. Of course, then you got the opportunity... and.. and... huh. You can't remember what happens after that at the moment.
---
The howling and barking are worse... on and off, but chasing you at all times. You can barely get to sleep, and fear for your life in your own house.... at least the noise is dimmer outside. You're considering dragging your bed outside to be able to sleep safely, or perhaps buying a tent... but you're not sure the tent would be safe either. Yikes. Maybe you should just lie down in an open field... that'd keep the vile dogs away... yes. Well, you do know one thing now: all dogs are your mortal enemy. Run from them at all times, and shoot them if you can't. Your life depends on it. (OOC: No it doesn't, you don't need to worry about "Dale killed by dog assault" randomly, but hey your character doesn't know that.)
---
[Shale]
Ha! You knew it! The doctors were behind everything after all! You won't let the Order of Caduceus win, no, no you won't!
(In other words: It'd be silly for me to post so in the general thread, but you're immune to Yoshi / Hayles, "Psychologist" counts as close enough to a doctor. You don't know if that threat is now moot or if there are more evil doctors out there... wait, of course you do! They're all evil doctors, or at least working for them! And you are IMMUNE TO THEIR CHARMS! BWAHAHAHA)
---
[Alice]
To confirm: Martin Andrews is Docproof. And since it's relevant now, you're pretty sure Hayles would have counted as a doctor. You don't know if ZZZ)
---
[Cranbud]
Your bodyguard action succeeded. No attack.
If you investigate the Hutchins household, you think the rune means something like "Forbidden / Null." Perhaps Chad was trying to banish whatever dark deeds had gone on in that house?
For what it's worth, still enjoying your posts. Thanks for being one of the ones to really get into the spirit. Can't comment on how accurate your cases are of course, but you've collected style points at the very least.
Also....
You feel different this morning. It's all falling apart. You feel like a wreck. Things are subtly... wrong. Everything's wrong. You remember a long conversation last night, but forget the details. You realize that you can't escape the past forever - perhaps you'd already read too much of that play, and you've just been trying to escape its terrible pull all this time. You realize that though you'd seemingly forgotten about it over the past year, you actually still do have a full copy of the script in your backpack, and you realize that in order to solve the crimes in Marbury, you may have to read the rest of the play, and use the terrible knowledge within to end things. The more paranoid part of you suspects that this was due to somebody manipulating events from the shadows (read: this depression is the result of an action last night) but if so, so what? You know the terrible truth now anyway, and all that remains is to clean up any unfinished business before the darkness comes.
---
[Xanth]
Hey! So it seems you are back, after all. You woke up in your own, deserted house, naked but alive. It seems your library of books have been impounded (read: you are now Vanilla) but otherwise you feel fine. As in, you don't look obviously like a zombie, you don't think you'll automatically die after a time limit, and if anything you feel 10 years younger and healthier. While you are still quite insane, you've had the magical equivalent of large doses of Prozac shoved down your throat, so the fact that you should certainly be dead and had glimpses of a vast underwater city don't seem very troubling to you at the moment.
As you'll note from the flavor, I've had you present yourself as your younger brother, since if you'd said "Hi I'm Moses" then flavor-wise you should probably have been voteless and shunned. (If I'd had all the night actions in a little earlier, I'd have talked with you about this, but oh well.) Don't know what first name you want to take on, but feel free to pick whatever you like (though "Lazarus" actually would be pretty amusing now that I think about it. It'd fit the Biblical names pattern of your parents, at least.). Also tell me what you want the big sanity-crushing reveal to the others to be at the end - whether your ACTUAL younger brother shows up and says "Uh what," or a records check shows that you only had sisters, or whatever you want, really.
---
Day 4
[Bardiche]
Kyle Handley was TOWN.
--
Another small room... at a police station? A police detective stares at you across his desk. "I'll admit it. I can't prove anything, Mr. Dale, and with your money and fame, I have no doubt that you could get a fancy shyster lawyer to get you off even if I did find something." The detective looks down, shuffles some papers, then casually puts his service revolver on his desk. "Doesn't mean I don't know who did it. I don't know what your problem is, but you need to get it under control. And also be somewhere else. Take a country retreat up to upstate New York, or Vermont, or New Hampshire. Just... get some place far from here." The detective looks you in the eye now. "Or stay here. I'll warn you that there are other methods of justice than the courts."
--
You're in... a library? A very nice and cool library, despite the 100 degree Arizona heat outside and there being no visible fans. Must be a nice version of that air conditioning technology. You're examining the newspaper archive, and found a copy of the Nashua Telegraph dated October 23, 1928 (Day 1). For some reason, the newspaper looks crinkly and yellow, despite it being only from a few days back. It mentions a mysterious murder in Marbury on the 22nd (Day 0), with the victim slashed to pieces... and the only witness was the novelist Ronald Dale, who saw a nondescript ~30 year old male escape. Could the incident have been related to the Black Wind which swallowed Marbury on November 1? Hard to say, but maybe. Whatever investigation of the crime done by the Marbury sheriff was lost with the rest of the town, so it's as much a mystery as Marbury's disappearance.
On your way out, you note a sheaf of local Phoenix, Arizona newspapers. "House Republicans consider vote on presidential impeachment," the headline blares. And this newspaper looks fresh, recent. That's odd... isn't President Coolidge a Republican? Why would his own party want to impeach him?
--
You've taken to sleeping outside, on the grass. You're covered with ticks, but at least you're alive. Better than risking going inside and getting devoured by dogs.
(Bard: If you haven't figured out what's up with your character flavor-wise by now, read your old PMs and role PM again, or talk to me. ;-) Late enough willing to do some hand-holding if you aren't recognizing some American cultural references here.)
---
[Xanth]
Congratulations on being feared. This may sound a little familiar.
You feel different this morning. It's all falling apart. You feel like a wreck. Things are subtly... wrong. Everything's wrong. You remember a long conversation last night, but forget the details. You realize that OH MY GOD YOU'RE DEAD! DEAD! DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDD AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! You can see a fathomless void of madness, and you adrift in it forever, yet never being allowed to fully die. The Christian Heaven is nothing more than a wishful fantasy to avoid the true terror of being the plaything of some elder being, sentenced to live and die and live at unknowable whims. The more paranoid part of you suspects that this was due to somebody manipulating events from the shadows (read: this depression is the result of an action last night) but if so, so what? You know the terrible truth now anyway, and all that remains is to clean up any unfinished business before the darkness comes. Again.
---
Day 5
--
[Bardiche]
You feel different this morning. It's all falling apart. You feel like a wreck. Things are subtly... wrong. Everything's wrong. You remember a long conversation last night, but forget the details. You realize that your time is near -you programmed in a November 1 cutoff date for your own safety. You'll be gone soon, hopefully safe from whatever overtakes this cursed place... or will you be? Will you be able to escape this shard of an insane soul seemingly inside you? And can you possibly escape the incessant howling of the evil dogs out to devour you? The more paranoid part of you suspects that this was due to somebody manipulating events from the shadows (read: this depression is the result of an action last night) but if so, so what? You know the terrible truth now anyway, and all that remains is to clean up any unfinished business before the darkness comes.
--
"No... nooo!"
You have a few flashes of Dale's memories, but this time stop yourself. You don't want to see them any more.
--
"So... I guess others had similar ideas as well. Einstein probably is rolling in his grave. What an honor!"
You nod to your boyfriend. "Pay is surprisingly nice for doctoral work, too. Guess they want smart people even doing the minor tasks. Can't imagine what they're paying the bigshots there, though. Some of the best physics minds in the country. Guess it's tradition to host the secret projects out in the desert nowadays, just like the Manhattan Project."
"Well, if this works, you'll all be remembered for a long time. The first chrononauts. Imagine the honor if you get chosen to be one!"
You giggle. "I doubt it'd be me. Wouldn't they send someone more famous through first?"
He laughs as well. "And risk them in something insanely dangerous? Hah. Nah, they need guinea pigs. Your chances are better than you think while this process is untested. Keep your hopes up! And if you are picked, who knows what kind of an amazing adventure you'll have?"
--
[lmm]
You were attacked last night! You had an epic battle with the assailant that I was totally set to write up for today had you not been protected, dashing around with your old saber in one hand and a revolver in the other, but you drove off the mysterious psycho with the help of Roukanken / Greaves's power. Hmm, who could the attacker be. Expect round 2 of that fight to start tomorrow if you get lynched, though you have some leeway in how you want to die as usual. (Or even pull the "run run away to fight another day," I'd probably be okay with that as well.)
Notable fake claim requests
[Yoshiken / Hayles]
You've got a big secret. The other villagers? Not really the "real" villagers. They are actually figments of your imagination based on the real villagers. This is all a dream, a game. And one you're going to win! Stop the evil mysterious killers! Won't the other townies be surprised when bumpkin farmer Ethan Hayles saves them all!
In the real world, you're just a random farmer who joined the Order of Unseen Wisdom. Sure there was some chanting and swearing of blood oaths and the like, but you were just there as something to do. It can get lonely when you're unmarried on a farm. Anyway, Hutchins was supposed to have some big ritual he was trying to set up in a week or so. After the meeting, he joked about how he bet he could convince half the town to lynch the other half given the right trigger.... perhaps his own "murder." "After all, I'm a leading citizen of town, yet who knows what secrets the Order hides?" You replied "It'd never work! I'd figure out the truth behind your murder if there ever was one!" And now... well, hey, after taking a nap, you're in this dream where he was murdered, and you get to save the town!
Luckily, since this is all your dream, you can access your own subconscious and find "answers" about the other characters in your head. You do want yourself to win, after all. On the other hand, it's weird. It's like there's some other "presence" in your head... Jon, perhaps controlling the "opposition"? You're not sure. Don't two people sometimes dream the same dream simultaneously?
...it... it IS kinda weird how real, and how long, this dream feels. But hey, you're going to "win," then wake up, then tell all the other townies a great story about the dream you had where you saved them all.
[Roukanken / Greaves]
(Keep it simple option - you don't know how you can revive others)
You "awoke" in a small-town doctor's office 3 years ago with some kind of powerful amnesia. You didn't know your name, your origin, or anything. The doctor was extremely surprised, and said that you'd been found in a coma-like state on a bench near the graveyard. He gave you a full check-up, and you seemed to be in the blossom of health now - as if you had the body of a healthy 21 year old, despite "feeling" that you were considerably older than that (har har). A business card you found in your pocket said "Nathan Graves - Explorer of Truth." You're not even sure if you ARE Nathan Graves, but you decided it was good guess. When you left the office, you decided to become a journalist to explore truth after all, and maybe find out your own origin.
As for your ability? (Keep it simple) You have no idea how you got it. You just "know" that you can go to a graveyard, raise your hand, and call people back to life, though the process is erratic. (Read: If you want to set up fake role-related restrictions or something, that's your business mostly, but since your actual power does allow you to bring people back at "two" power levels, you might want to maintain that idea). If anyone else - Hellsnake, perhaps - could explain this inexplicable power, you'd greatly appreciate it! You desperately desire to know the truth behind your power and yourself.
And oh yes. You've been investigating, and you too examined some of the crime scene at the lodge of the Order of Unseen Wisdom. You snuck one of its ritual books, and some of the pictures "made sense" to you. Like you'd seen them, long before. You half wonder if they possessed a ritual for affecting the dead as well.
(Go for being a warlock option - you do know how you can revive others)
You don't like to admit it, but you don't see a choice right now. You're actually part of a *different* organization (please do not call it a cult), based out of Chicago, the Sacred Chosen of Thanatos. As a high-level initiate of them, you have learned the SECRETS OF DEATH ITSELF. You realize that narrow-minded people would call you a witch or warlock, but this is a perfectly scientific and misunderstood field, actually. You learned your art on a trip to British India, where you studied with the great masters of the Chosen. Now you travel the world as a journalist, finding out secrets, and occasionally even disposing of those who would seek to interrupt the Great Cycle (read: evil necromancers, like Hellsnake?!). See, you're a good Necromancer, and your job is to return unsettled ghosts, unnaturally prolonged lives, and life-sapping abominations to the Wheel of Creation (read: reincarnation after death). You can, of course, use the power of Necromancy yourself.... but you don't like to, and would only revive people yourself if the revived's help is needed in the face of a greater threat. Like the evildoers who haunt Marbury, which is why you came here in the first place. You will return them to the Wheel, you swear, even if it requires tampering a bit with the cycle of life in the area.
---
-
DON'T LIE TO TOWN TOM OMGWTF?! Also, the Hargreaves/Greaves gambit where Hargreaves saved Nicolai and bussed Ethan, and then "cleared" Nathan as well, was very slick on the part of Scum.
Never lied to town. I might have danced around the issue, but didn't lie. Totally glad I got NKed. Paranoid cop so lame :\
-
Lie of omission is still a lie. You tried playing games and it backfired. Not that we can't understand what the thought process was, just... unanimously considered the wrong move.
-
My useless role drew a NK; hardly backfired.
-
/me bows to the audience.
Thank you, thank you, no autographs.
Seriously, though, I didn't have any intention of playing the articles like that initially. It was mainly a plan to try and keep people interested during slow night phases, sorta like how Axel would post songs in Hero Mafia. Then by the time Night 2 came around I thought to myself 'Hmm, what can I get away with here?' and decided to sneak in the Nyarlathotep code. Simplistic, yeah, but no-one would be looking for it.
When that went unnoticed, I decided 'what the hell, let's go all the way with this' and started throwing in the more adventurous stuff. Makes up for the fact that as a player I was pretty horrendous - if it weren't for the whole revival gambit I'd probably have died D3/4. -_-
As a side note, this is the first time I've seen most of those SnowFire PMs because I spent the whole game on the Nathan Greaves account. If I'd known Chad had no kills to his name I'd have accused someone else. :|
So, where's that Town-friendly epilogue?
My useless role drew a NK; hardly backfired.
An unintentional one. :V
-
I'd also point out it drew Town's night kill, not scum's. We killed Alex instead of you that night.
-
And I would've done it again given the chance.
-
Town's night kill, not scum's.
There is no difference.
-
The scumkill will only hit town. The townkill could have been used on scum.
-
Excuses for playing like shit.
-
My useless role drew a NK; hardly backfired.
Actually, your useless role drew a (actual) Cop investigation, that happened to kill you as well without the killer knowing it. Your claim was also instrumental in getting another Townie, who did NOT have a useless role, lynched. -_-
Rou - I also missed my first night PM. That's the real reason I didn't claim the nightkill until late in Day 2. When Snow mentioned in his first votecount that he'd sent PMs to the primary account, I popped over and saw it, but by then Ethan was attacking me and I thought, what the hell, let's try a gambit since I'm late claiming the nightkill anyway. >_<
Not that that's who tried to kill me, but...
-
I think the funniest thing is I inspected Pietro only because I was going to call for his lynch the next day and confirm my sanity. 8-)
I'm still a little sad. When Bobbin said he had been guarding someone with what he believed to be an investigative role, I thought he had caught on to the hints I'd dropped and my lurker strategy. Sigh. Guess not.
-
I think the funniest thing is I inspected Pietro only because I was going to call for his lynch the next day and confirm my sanity. 8-)
I'm still a little sad. When Bobbin said he had been guarding someone with what he believed to be an investigative role, I thought he had caught on to the hints I'd dropped and my lurker strategy. Sigh. Guess not.
Nope, Sopko/Handley was the one. I thought for sure he had a way of knowing alignments and as such was either Cop or Scum. But... not. >_< I actually played pretty bad, in retrospect.
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I thought my unerring good faith in you on D2 would've been a massive hint. I'm surprised no one really pressed me on that point anyway, I don't think I was really subtle in going "Peyton is very town to me" for no reason whatsoever.
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Haha wow, this was a pretty amazing setup, I have to say. I mean, I've wondered to myself "how would I do a setup for theme X?" (like, say, Harry Potter) and I've come up with some wacky stuff, but I think this setup manages to be more creative than the weird setups I had in mind (while also apparently being close to balanced; cool). I'm definitely impressed.
Cult Leader, while flavorful, just... doesn't work as a balanced Mafia idea in general.
Only Cult Leader setup I've seen that I've liked is basically a Serial Killer...except if they fail to kill their target then the target gets recruited. In other words, basically a Serial Killer that can on rare occasions gain an ally or two.
Of course, said Cult Leader variant would not work at all in this setup, what with the ridiculous number of doctors and bulletproof people.