The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => RPGDL Discussion => Topic started by: Jo'ou Ranbu on August 16, 2008, 05:12:28 AM
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL)
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3)
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1)
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4)
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1)
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9)
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2)
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2)
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5)
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD)
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1)
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1)
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3)
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4)
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL)- Anyone who seriously hypes Chaos Flare is getting punched in the face. Evasion/speed/damage etc, smash.
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3)
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)- Tiebreaking this way just so Jade dies horribly next round.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1)- Can see the argument for Cyril, I just don't have a lot of DL respect for him.
Heavy
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4)- Strong kneejerk.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1)- Garnet needs status that isn't ID here, and I don't have a lot of respect for it. Atomos may work, but I don't think I allow a lot of gems in the DL.
Can't vote on Ike/Bruiser here. Gooo Bruiser? I think. Sounds like a good fight.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2)- Bart may win with a combo attack, but I don't think he quites kills with a AP combo+attack offhand? Not that it really matters, the winner is fighting for the honor of losing to either one of the below!
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2)- ID. Mog does not like status.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5)- Jade's too damn slow. Shoon should 2HKO.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD)- Haha Lufia in Middle.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1)- Ace.. may beat out the status here. This is a decent fight, kneejerking this way.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1)- Think Ernest's edge in evasion and accuracy tip the fight, he could also get a stun on a Crestier guard counter which would be really painful for Jun as well.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3)- It's Gengen.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4)- Taloon is worse than a silenced Cristo.
-
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL) - EDIT: Chaos Flare is a mid-level 2HKO and Songi is average speed? Yeah, that's enough to handle Melfice.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1) - Ahahahahaha Cyril outslugging Jade even with the lightning immunity. Cyril is like 8HKOing at best while Jade 4HKOs at worst.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - Arngrim 2HKOs and Cliff doesn't. That's that.
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4) - Huh, neat match. Ayla goes first, but has to face Kika evade unless she wants her damage to suck... but Dino Tail could spell ugly things, since Kika has shoddy HP. Hmm.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1) - Kneejerk. He heal-locks before Protect, but she's faster and she should 3HKO at worst herself while having stupid deep resources. Even the poor duration on Protect should let her pace through.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2) - Uhhhhhhhh.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2) - Death.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD) - 2HKOs, goes first and nulls her best damage. This is just as cruel as it gets.
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1) - Ugh Red Wizard.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1) - Fail-off.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3) - Speaking of fail-offs! Uuuuuuuuuuugh.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4) - Taloon fails so hard.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL)- Songi. Unless there is a more solid reason for why Chaos Flare should be disrespected.
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3)- Xorn.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)- Nate. Faster+Turn 1 status
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1)- Thinking. Low Jade respect/high Cyril respect.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- Arngrim
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4)- Strong knee jerk is against Ayla, but unsure on how Kika's evasion falls out.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1)- Garnet. DoS Knight is quite weak to status. Original is slower than Garnet. A physical fighter who doesn't resist Mini and doesn't OHKO Garnet and is slower. No. Minied.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2)- Blar figuring out L2 evasion and accuracy when it doesn't exist in game.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2)- Jean
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5)- Look this up later or something.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD)- Haschel. Ahaha Lufia in Middle works.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1)- Blar FF 1 spell legality headache.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1)- Ernest. 25% evasion is enough to hampstring Jun.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3)- Nina 3. Similar damage, Gengen is shitty to magic IIRC, and Nina is fast on top of that.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4)- Relm
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL) - No idea.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - P1 form wins by being faster and statusing her. P2 form wins by having a Dark-immune Persona.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1) - I take Angi into averages against Jade and Myria, so...
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir - Faster and way more respect for his damage.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1)
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9) - Slaughter.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2)
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2) - Bleh, fuck off Jean.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5) - I'll think about this one. I have more respect for Tales casts than some.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD)
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1) - Whatever.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1)
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3)
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4)
-
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL)- Songi. Unless there is a more solid reason for why Chaos Flare should be disrespected.
Because it's like a 4HKO at best?
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL): Oh, the speed wasn't bad, just random. Yeah, Songi smashes Melfice in the face with magic.
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3): No thinking required. Even Akura loses handedly... well, maybe not THAT Badly but... yeah. Too much speed.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1): More not thinking. Though immuning Lightning might do it. Maybe. But BoF1 endgame boss HP, and not totally sure I take Jade against Agni. Myria (Hydra) sure, but Jade? Hmm. Doubt it matters. Its just free damage and Jade still wins on durability. Heck, WoD was even physical.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3): Bout as straightforward as it gets.
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4): Generally have a lot of respect for Ayla in a physical slugfest.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1): Mini'd, indeed.
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9): Urgh. Ballistic 2HKOs Ike, but not if you only consider 1 dragon/royal (reasonable). On the other hand, Ike's Crit/Aether chances are rather good (52% or so). On the other hand, I'm willing to bet he's below average range (not mounted, and ranged, while good, is made up for by there being mounted ranged units like Astrid... granted, it is just Astrid who uses a Bow in the DL). Well, a 2HKO and tie-breaking gives it to Bruiser. I'll probably end up voting for him. Which is sad since I hardly used him (don't think I ever saw Ballistic either)
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2): Perfect evade works.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2): HOW FAR CAN ONE SPELL TAKE YOU WORTHLESS FRENCH FOOD. Death works again, much to my chagrin.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5): Jade in a duel. Meteor Storm doesn't even 2HKO. Jade probably belongs in Light. Shoon is at least decent with a finisher in there.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD): Yeaaaah. Resists lightning, the water magic, even boosted, isn't good enough. Level penalty for rejoining late... BUT ERIM1/LUFIA/ERIM2/SEENA/ERIM3 FORMCHAIN SLAUGHTERS!
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1): Ruse? Whatever.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1): Not thinking much about this.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3): Yeesh.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL)
SMASH in the first few turns, and even with multi-turning Melfice doesn't have the durability to come back from that.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)
Neither version of Arngrim has enough damage for this.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2)
WILD SMILE HYPE?
Light
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1)
I have no respect for VP1 damage. Act shocked.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3)
Fuck this.
-
Why the hell is Chaos Flare being hyped over Genocidal Cannon when the latter is like twice as much damage? Unless you force him to telegraph it I guess.
-
What does telegraphing the move change when he's fighting someone who doesn't have a defend command?
-
He telegraphs it by wasting a turn using a 1-hit physical before he can use GC the next turn, if you hold him to that.
Anyway, Tonfa just got word to me that Chaos Flare is uh actually... more in line of a 2HKO. What the fuck, apparently we all misremembered due to it hitting spirit (I can certainly buy that >_>). So even that aside, yeah. Expect to see the LoL boss topic update in a bit.
-
Godlike
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1): Jade has this thing where his physical 3HKOs. Even with a LOT of Cyril respect, I can't see him tanking more than, say, 7-8 of those. Now we get to the part where Jade has over 8PCHP and Cyril's damage hits his good defence, and we have a problem.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3): 2HKOs first.
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4): Oh wow, only worse than three other PCs at evade in a game that is notable at that? Even Ayla's above average Hit can't do enough there. Or, see Snow.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1): How exactly does Knight have a chance here? Even assuming Mini is turn 3 due to Knight MDef or something... isn't Blind even better? Odin? She's faster too, so she can effortlessly heal until she trances and and do something really nasty then.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2): Uncool.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2): Mog has some edges in MDef but it's not enough.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5): Shoon is pretty magically frail, so Jade just 2HKOs.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1): Pretty easy outslugging case. 3HKOs, faster, and RW can't possibly stop that.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1): Honestly just voting for the one I found less useless in-game. Close match, both 4HKO and Jun is faster. Evade could tilt it Ernest's way but I'm just not inclined to go there, as Jun has some evade of his own which I certainly respect more, though Ernest's accuracy is better... bah whatever, going first wins.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3): Sure whatever.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4): Owns this quarter. Fail, Light.
-
Godlike
Heavy
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4)
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1)
Middle
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5): Faster and 2HKOs
Light
-
Godlike
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1) - Slaughter for me.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - Not inclined to say Arngrim pulls it off, but high Cliff respect here.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1) - Yep.
Middle
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2) - Asdf.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD) - Asdf pt. 2, except somewhat not.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1)
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1) - Uh.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4) - Slaughter.
-
He telegraphs it by wasting a turn using a 1-hit physical before he can use GC the next turn, if you hold him to that.
Anyway, Tonfa just got word to me that Chaos Flare is uh actually... more in line of a 2HKO. What the fuck, apparently we all misremembered due to it hitting spirit (I can certainly buy that >_>). So even that aside, yeah. Expect to see the LoL boss topic update in a bit.
Yeah, it's pretty close to Genocidal Cannon damage according to the stat topic.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL) - Songi....barely loses here. Genocidal Flare tanks the sword quick, then physicals can eat the regenerator...but Melfice kills by then. Great fight.
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3) - Xorn. Not close.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - I...need to grab the rest of P1. Time for a speed-run! Nate WINS if he goes first, since Magiwall pwns all magic.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1) - Cyril...loses. Bah. He resists the damage, but...not enough otherwise, I think. WAIT! CUREALL!? THIS IS CLOSER!
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - Arngrim. Boss form.
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4) - Kika. Sexier.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1) - Garnet. Not seeing how Knight stops...anything she has.
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9) - Ike. Ikeall is broken - Aether whenever he wants with excellent stats. Bruiser just can take him down.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2) - Bart. Evasion and super damage breakthrough.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2) - ...damnit, Jean sucks now. He was awesome when he couldn't win in Light ;_; And he wins here.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5) - Jade. Not too tough.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD) - Haschel. Upgrade!
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1) - ...god, Red Wizard sucks. Ace isn't much better. ...go Ace, I guess.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1) - Ernest. CLOUD!
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3) - Nina.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4) - Relm. Control for broken.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL) - Songi....barely loses here. Genocidal Flare tanks the sword quick, then physicals can eat the regenerator...but Melfice kills by then. Great fight.
Why would he even bother to go after the Regenator single handedly? Killing Melfice is much more important than stopping the regenator's buffs or Poizn.
-
Okay! Regarding Ayla vs. Kika!
Let's assume Ayla goes first - both have very similar speed, and a double-turn isn't going to happen until long after the fight is over, most likely. Ayla deals 1.32x average damage, or 52% to average. However, in spite of Kika's shoddy HP, her defense actually lets her take physicals a bit better than average (0.87 in a lower = better system, roughly?). This means Ayla deals 46% to Kika. Kika herself deals 1.9x average damage, or 76% to average. Ayla reduces this to 54%. So, we have Ayla 3HKOing while Kika still 2HKOs. Since Kiss's healing is shoddy, it's not really turning things around, Ayla is forced to heal on her second turn to not die and the healing's getting outraced eventually.
And this is ignoring the fact that Kika could -dodge- in the middle of Triple Kick. The attack makes three evade checks, and assuming Kika dodges one out of three hits on average feels reasonable (Kika has Mizuki-level evade, Ayla has game-best accuracy but CT accuracy isn't something I'm too inclined to respect that much on average). So, we're looking at something closer to a 4HKO.
Now, what about Dino Tail? Well. Considering the range where Ayla needs to get to make it work as a good finisher (1 HP for 80% damage to average? Yeah no), and the fact it hits physical defense as well (no idea if it hits evade, but if it does, it just makes things worse), and the fact that Kika can just answer Kiss by using a physical and putting Ayla in a range where Dino Tail isn't dangerous enough... yeah, feels like the odds are just in Kika's favor here. Ayla could try lowering her own defense for better Dino Tail abuse, but this feels like a losing argument - the relevant ranges for it are mostly within that area where physical+Falcon 2HKO, and the evade is always pesky.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL) - Melfice. Kneejerk.
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3) - Xorn. Yeah.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - Nate.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1) - Cyril? Hm, I hold Agni against Jade, but that's still leaving him at 25xPCHP. On the other hand Jade without BoltX or Chill is really bad on the damage front.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - Cliff? If I'm not mistaken, Cliff 2HKOs and is faster.
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4) - Ayla. Kneejerk. The above logic has me doubting the kneejerk though.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1) - Knight. Kneejerk says he's faster and kills before status can hit.
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9) - Ike. Another kneejerk.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2) - Bartholomew.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2) - Jean. I hate Jean.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5) - Jade. Kneejerk.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD) - Haschel.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1) - Red Wizard. It's all a clever ruse!
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1) - Jun. Kneejerk?
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3) - Nina.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4) - Relm. Go go Relm respect!
-
Songi's vulnerable to poison, and since Grandia POIZN has a slight slow effect in addition to adding damage (Tonfa, did Songi take reduced poison damage?), that tips the match a bit more. The buffs don't hurt, and the healing effect is also a bit annoying as well - not a huge amount, but having 2 parts putting on pressure while another slowly heals away damage is...pretty bad. Doesn't help Melfice is a good deal faster. Seems a very uphill battle for Songi, his only advantage being that he's more durable, and the damage, if it his, can be one-shottable (but an evadable physical against Melfice...no work well).
-
(Tonfa, did Songi take reduced poison damage?)
He caps poison at 128 damage: all bosses do this, actually. Not sure what to make of it.
-
Poison probably hits on turn 2 at best. Songi may only really have durability on his side but...the durability split should be a lot bigger than say the Melfice-Songi speed split. The buffs are really bad. Grandia buffs are pretty ineffective, and Melfice's healing is like 1/9 of his HP.
-
True, the speed split isn't that amazing...but the fact that Melfice is attacking (WSS or whatever), his Sword is attacking (...uh...weak hits! That add up, at least), AND the Regenerator is healing (2000 HP with Alhealer, when average damage is probably around 2400 or so; and this is MT), really does put a strain on Songi. If Songi doesn't nuke something, he's running up against too much pressure overall, and his best damage is out of the picture (Melfice evade fun). Songi's excellent, but...I really can't see Songi stopping the triple threat here. The pressure just keeps piling up, and not killing the parts off makes him suffer, but it's a damned if he does damned if he doesn't situation. Can't go straight for Melfice, as a lot of his damage gets healed while he gets beat; going after the parts cuts off the healing and drops the damage, but he's sufferred enough that Melfice rips him apart at the end, I'd think. If Songi's MT was earlier, he might get this, but...the ST here hurts him. Poison...the small slow effect (I'd peg it about 10%, maybe 20% at best) helps with EXAs, the split of which lets Melfice heal back a bunch more HP, negating one of Songi's actions. While the speed isn't hugely significant, it does make a difference, due to the multiple parts.
It's a good fight, but...multiple parts are too much for Songi without MT.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL)- Poison and buffs tip it ever-so-slightly in Melfice's favor. But I think it's JUST enough to handle this?
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3)- Durh.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)- Not really thinking here. Forgive my brains at 3 AM.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1)- Read above. Lightning immunity shouldn't matter with monster durability.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- Uhhhhhh..... Arngrin's average speed! Cliff ain't!
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4)- Evade + 2HKO works well here.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1)- Durh. Mark II.
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9)- Played the remake only. Defend until lvl2 Blast Calibur(it's fast this way, I'd peg about turn 3 or 4? ToDr defense reduces damage to about a quarter, but raises the limit bar like mad), smite with great overkill damage.
Middle
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2)- ID.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5)- Not thinking. Jade should 2HKO. Shoon's semi-Suikoscrub.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD)- Not thinking.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1)- Has actual use in-game. I'm serious.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1)- Brains. Commencing shutdown.
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3)- I.....can't believe I'm voting for Nina3. But it IS Gengen.
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4)- HOLY ****.
-
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9)- Played the remake only. Defend until lvl2 Blast Calibur(it's fast this way, I'd peg about turn 3 or 4? ToDr defense reduces damage to about a quarter, but raises the limit bar like mad), smite with great overkill damage.
Why is Ike the one forced to attack here? If Bruiser defends Ike just sits and waits for it to go up. Good thing to do in a stalemate like that is force both to attack.
-
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL): I remember Chaos Flare doing 900~ damage, which doesn't account for Spirit kicking in, and I'm sticking by that.
Choko (AtLC) vs Xorn (G3): Ahahahah no.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Sierra Mikain (S2): Nate is weak to darkness. Fuck the P2 form since its Split Path only, and worse than his P1 form in like every other scenario, and I don't buy him being necessarily faster.
Cyril (SO2) vs Jade (BoF1): Cyril resists Lightning right? Oh look Jade's godlike durability and half decent physical considering the durability prove that he DOESN'T JUST NEED BOLTX.
Heavy
Arngrim (VPs) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3): Cliff has an easy 3HKO here...but Arngrim kills on turn 2 anyway, so doesn't really matter.
Ayla (CT) vs Kika (S4): Goes first and 2HKOs.
Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) vs Knight (FF1): Yeah, Garnet's just well suited for Knight. She's faster, for starters (Disrespect FF9 speed if you will, it doesn't change the fact that she's above average speed against an average by default PC, so wins tiebreaks.) With that, she either gets the 2HKO in first, OR she casts Protect, turns the responding 2HKO into a 3HKO, thus can play defensively with healing+Damage or status.
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9): Whoever goes first wins...and both have arguments for going first. So...lets look at the fight in this way!
If Ike goes first, he wins; he gets his second turn first, thus wins the 2HKO war. That much is obvious!
Now, if Bruiser goes first?
First off, if you see Ballistic as being countered, Ike wins. Ike's getting 4 attacks to Bruiser's 1, and 4x Ike's damage *BEFORE* Aether is going to kill Bruiser. Not sure how reasonable it is to allow Ballistic to ignore counters, would need to see the move. After all, if its a simple case like "Move can hit things in its line of fire despite an obvious bias on target", then its...no different than any other ARPG attack, where all moves have some AoE aspect, and I'm not buying All ARPG attacks > FE Counters! If the move is one of those "hits everything on screen!" attack meanwhile, then yeah fair game.
ASSUMING IT DOES IGNORE COUNTERS...
Ike has about a 24% chance to win still. If Aether goes off, Bruiser...might very well be screwed, let alone if it goes off twice. Chances are, it won't in one Ike attack, but it still might.
That's not factoring in Criticals either, though, unsure if Ike actually has a Crit rate endgame or not. Thinking he does, and while its small, its still a chance to kick in. As a reminder, if Ballistic can Crit? Ragnell gives Ike immunity to Critical Hits anyway, so non factor.
What's this mean?
If Ike goes first, he wins, plain and simple.
If Bruiser goes first, he USUALLY wins, but Ike can pull an upset through Aether or possibly a crit, which means he doesn't always win.
Given all this, I think the odds are in Ike's favor. If you take one call against Bruiser (Ike going first or Bruiser's Ballistic gets countered), he loses. If you're on the fence about it, Ike still has the average of wins.
Middle
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Dekar (L2): Wild Smile does bad things to Dekar, I wanna say.
Mog (FF6) vs Jean (BoF2): Death again!
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Shoon (S5): Kneejerk.
Lufia (Lufia) vs Haschel (LoD): Haschel puts enough pressure on Lufia, and IIRC, his damage gets pretty sick if he gets low on HP. Oh, he ALSO immunes her best damage, go figure.
Light
Ace (S3) vs Red Wizard (FF1): Healing should give him a win.
Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Jun (VP1): This fight fails too much for me to think about, so I'll just say VP Fighter> Ernest for now?
Gengen (S2) vs Nina (BoF3): This fight really really fails!
Relm Arrowny (FF6) vs Taloon (DQ4): Sword Edge Armor hype gets countered by Gravity Rod 25% chance of Quartr hype, especially since Relm can use said Gravity Rod to heal from Taloon's damage. Yes, his damage is that bad that Relm's healing strategy would actually work.
-
(Disrespect FF9 speed if you will, it doesn't change the fact that she's above average speed against an average by default PC, so wins tiebreaks.)
DoS Knight has higher than average speed.
-
DoS Knight also is really weak to status.
-
According to the stat topic, the only statuses Garnet has over 50% accuracy with are Berserk and Blind. DoS Knight is arguably faster and 2HKOs. Garnet is not by any means a physical tank.
-
Blind alone hurts him a lot. Killing half his hits on turn 2 means that his 2HKO dies if she equips for defense (She can get above avereage defense with Robe of Lords+Adaman Hat), and then Garnet gets to full heal. Blind never wears out, his damage no longer really puts any pressure on her, and she gets plenty of time for Mini to hit.
-
Bruiser Khang (ToD) vs Ike (FE9)- Played the remake only. Defend until lvl2 Blast Calibur(it's fast this way, I'd peg about turn 3 or 4? ToDr defense reduces damage to about a quarter, but raises the limit bar like mad), smite with great overkill damage.
Why is Ike the one forced to attack here? If Bruiser defends Ike just sits and waits for it to go up. Good thing to do in a stalemate like that is force both to attack.
Cause Bruiser can use a super-cheap buff called Metal Body that makes him basically have Defend(called Penetrate in-game) on for 8 seconds. It DOES give him the status ailment Weak, which is basically he regenerates CC(think of VP style AP) at half speed.
He also has 2 skills that are NOT physical damage, though based off his physical attack. One's called Muscle Heat and the other's Crush Earth(according to my translation, anyways).
ToDr attacks NORMALLY have 2 elements if they're physical. Slash/Strike/Pierce and another element. These 2 above are Fire and Earth elemental ONLY. Not physical.
Granted, Muscle Heat's damage is pathetic, and Crush Earth can only be used once before he needs to recharge his CC after Metal Body.
-
Melfice (G2) vs Songi (LoL): I remember Chaos Flare doing 900~ damage, which doesn't account for Spirit kicking in, and I'm sticking by that.
You probably had a rainbow jewel slapped on. It's dark elemental.
-
Blind alone hurts him a lot. Killing half his hits on turn 2 means that his 2HKO dies if she equips for defense (She can get above avereage defense with Robe of Lords+Adaman Hat), and then Garnet gets to full heal. Blind never wears out, his damage no longer really puts any pressure on her, and she gets plenty of time for Mini to hit.
Can't Knight take Blind off of himself? Knight does have SOME form of White Magic.
-
Using a spell half the cast can use, which certainly rates as illegal to me.
Though admittedly I had forgotten that spell. Granted, there's still the problem of Garnet potentially getting a doubleturn before Knight kills her, and more significantly, Atomos->Ark, which does 75% mHP followed by 9999 damage, i.e. kills Knight unless you see him tanking 40000 FF9 damage. You really shouldn't, since that makes his magic durability 2x average. No.
That's FF1o. DoS has a better argument due to speed, though he still needs Garnet to be frail enough to make his normally 3HKOing physical 2HKO. And for Mini not to be turn 1 against his now poorer MDef. And of course to allow Blindna.
-
Assuming you take the kill point as 2.5x the average, DoS Knight 2HKOs before taking Garnet's frailty into account. Though if you see Mini hitting turn 1 or if you don't allow him Blindna, then yeah, he still loses.
-
Er, no he doesn't.
1. Master 1380 (Physical)
2. Knight 958 (Physical)
3. Ninja 841 (Physical)
4. Red Wizard 780 (Physical)
5. Black Wizard 550 (Flare)
6. White Wizard 440 (Holy)
Average: 824 (kill point: 2060)
-
That's close enough to a 2HKO (2.15...HKO) that I just call it a 2HKO, whoops. Sorry.
But that's still before taking Garnet's frailty into account.
-
He also has 2 skills that are NOT physical damage, though based off his physical attack. One's called Muscle Heat and the other's Crush Earth(according to my translation, anyways).
ToDr attacks NORMALLY have 2 elements if they're physical. Slash/Strike/Pierce and another element. These 2 above are Fire and Earth elemental ONLY. Not physical.
Granted, Muscle Heat's damage is pathetic, and Crush Earth can only be used once before he needs to recharge his CC after Metal Body.
Um...if it's running off of his Physical Attack, then it's a physical attack, regardless of elements. Or does it hit Mdef instead of Pdef in game?
-
Um...if it's running off of his Physical Attack, then it's a physical attack, regardless of elements. Or does it hit Mdef instead of Pdef in game?
This isn't always true. EO2 has attacks based off of Physical Attack, hit Physical Defense, but are elemental damage (they don't get hit by physical resistance in-game). I'm not sure that's the case here. (Mana Khemia has skills of the same sort, just to show it's not just a one-game deal. Atelier Iris 2 has attacks that are based on physical stats and ignore physical immunity as well.)
Regardless, I don't think it matters if it's physical or not, just if it hits PDEF or not, in this case.
-
I.....have no idea.
Physical attacks in ToDr can be blocked by Defend and Penetrate, whereas magic can only be blocked by Penetrate(and Charge for PCs).
Judging by defense stats is pretty hard in ToDr, where defending and resistances play a much bigger role in survivability.
Normal enemies HARDLY ever defend, and bosses normally have Penetrate instead of defending.