An Aesthetic Discussion Spanning 17 Years - Andrew vs Pokemon - DAILY UPDATES!

[AndrewRogue]

This is a topic I've been meaning to do for a while, since, honestly. I love Pokemon. I love monster raising sims in general. But Pokemon was my first and that makes it special.

Plus, the game has some great visual designs. And honestly, what's more important in a collecting game than aesthetics?

As mobile games have proven time and time again, nothing.

So yeah, I'm just gonna chat Pokemon looks when I get bored, because I feel like it.

~~~

First batch of Pokemon now starts in the next post, since I think, with 2 Gens down, we can use the first post for stats!

Generation 1 - R/B/Y

Average Score
3.09

Best of the Best


Absolutely Shameful


Generation 2 - G/S/C

Average Score
2.58

Best of the Best


Absolutely Shameful

Generation 3 - R/S/E

Average Score
2.66

Best of the Best


Absolutely Shameful

[AndrewRogue]

Bulbasaur: Look at this adorable motherfucker. LOOK AT HIM. Honestly, over the years, I've gained a lot of respect for Bulbasaur and I think I consider him the best of the original starters. He just represents good pokemon designs really well. He looks like something that is almost able to exist. The little touches (the splotches and the nails) are good and help an otherwise dull design, while the bulb on the back is perfect. A pokemon should tell you what it is at a glance, and Bulbasaur tells you that. 5/5

Ivysaur: This fucker is perfect. Absolutely. Until I contradict myself later, he is the best mid-evolution in the game and possibly one of the best designs in the game. He's just a very nice, smooth transition from Bulbasaur. He looks a bit more mature, the bulb is flowering, and look at how FIERCE he is. He will wreck your shit. See those fangs? Yeah. He's not a pup. He's a strong independent plant-frog who don't need no trainer. 5/5

Venusaur: And we kinda lose the train a little bit here. He just goes from strong and fierce to... kinda fat and plodding. Also, I didn't notice until this examination, but he gets REALLY froglike. Those hindlegs are nuts. Anyhow, loss of the splotches makes his body a bit less interesting, and the tree-like flower just doesn't quite do it for me. It works on the body (adds to the bulky nature), but ehhhhhhhhh! The raffelesia design is cool, though. I dunno. After Ivysaur I really wanted something more vibrant and more exciting. 2/5

Charmander: Beloved by 11-year olds everywhere! Charmander also has a pretty great design. Fire dinosaur! Good contrast of colors, the fire tail tells you everything you need to know about it. The perfect roundness of the head bothers me a bit, though. Also, this guy looks like he's not going to be able to do anything but waddle around. Lookit those stubby little legs. 4/5

Charmeleon: Awkward teenage years here. This design does nothing for me. It's a reasonable evolution. Somewhat bulked up. Fiercer. Sharper claws. Color deepens a bit. Fire on the tail is more intense. My complaint about the round head is addressed by giving it some shape... and a really stupid horn. 2/5

Charizard: Suddenly, motherfucking dragon. HELL YEAH. 11 year old me is excite as hell. He's pretty good. Not a lot to say. The wings are a bit out of nowhere, the doubt horn thing works better, and all that. He's still got that weird issue where he looks prone to waddling. Look at that beer belly and those short legs. Plus, bro skipped arm day. Super thin arms. Still, all told, he manages to look pretty fierce and capture the western dragon thing well despite being a bipedal chump. 4/5

Squirtle: Blue turtle. Least exciting of the starters. The shell contrasts pretty badly with the blue body and the bipedal thing looks goofy. Seriously, can we get a pokemon who can actually move? 3/5

Wartortle: Squirtle with some stuff glued on. The color scheme got worse. Can you tell I don't like the Squirtle line? 2/5

Blastoise: What the fuck is with those weird, segmented arms and legs? I never noticed those. They are dumb. So are the water cannons. I dunno, this design just really doesn't work for me. Not a ton to say. You suck Squirtle line. 2/5

Caterpie: It's a caterpillar! It's a pretty decent caterpillar! Good colors, the little yellow circles add some nice detail that don't overwhelm. Those tiny round feed are weird, though. But yeah. He's a good bug. 4/5

Metapod: It's a cocoon! Honestly, it's weird shape seriously bothers me. Why is it vaguely triangular? Why does it have a mouth plate? Why horns? 2/5

Butterfree: Well, it is a butterfly? Honestly, it's a pretty decent design. The color is good. The bug design is good. It just... really doesn't look like it came from caterpie. To be fair, butterflies do often look really different from caterpillars! I dunno. As the end of the Caterpie line, he doesn't impress. Would have been nice for him to keep something on his design that said "Look, I was Caterpie!" But, in general, he works. 3/5

Weedle: Hey look, it's that enemy from Mario with SPIKES. His nose seriously bothers me, which is a shame, because otherwise I sorta dig the spikey worm look. 3/5

Kakuna: The better cocoon. This guy? He looks like he's gonna mess a bro up once he feels like it. It's actually got a pretty good sense of danger. Like, I see Metapod? I'd kick that bugger. This guy? I'd think twice about it. He might kill me. 4/5

Beedrill: Actually a wasp. Also kind of a badass. He's gonna fuck a bro up. He doesn't need six legs to be a bug, because he's going to impale you. This is what a deadly bee pokemon should look like. 4/5

[DjinnAndTonic]

I think it'd be cool if you did them in groups instead of just going numerically. Like, do all the 'earlygame bugs' from each generation and see how they compare? Or do all the ones of the same dualtyping at once (all the water/flying at once, all the rock/ground types at once, etc.)

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm for sticking with chronological order, myself.

Enjoying this so far. Holy crap, I never noticed Beedrill only has four legs, that kinda lowers my opinion of it. I agree that Venusaur kinda fucks up an otherwise great line. Really the only major disagreement I have so far is that I think Squirtle's design is excellent; I love the colour scheme and I think it's just adorable (and while I love turtles, I don't think they're easy to make adorable). But then Wartortle turns around, makes the colour scheme worse and attaches some stupid head-wings (which promptly disappear for Blastoise anyway?) so yeah I certainly am not going to hype that line beyond its first form.

[Meeplelard]

I think sticking with Chronological Order just works better from an organization stand point.  Simply seeing where you left off and knowing exactly where to follow up, as well as others knowing what to expect for what is being reviewed next, it just works more elegantly than being random.

[AndrewRogue]

I might do some groupings later, but I prefer chronological so we can have more excitement tackling the OLD VS NEW thing. See how my emotions change as we get further. Also allows me to do small batches and large batches as I please.

[Grefter]

Squirtle colour palette I am dead certain was built for the existence of GBC and Super Gameboy.

[AndrewRogue]

Pidgey: You know, I was planning on hating on Pidgey way more, but after looking at it for a while, I think I've actually decided I kinda like the bird. Is he fairly plain and generic? Yeah. Does he have a lot of nice touches? Yeah. Color scheme is good, with the black around the eyes acting as a good highlight. The crest is actually really attractive and the chest/wing ruffles create nice details that make him look like a pretty floofy bird. Like, he looks like he's got feathers and size. Not going to win any super exciting design awards, but he's actually pretty solid if you're looking for realistic pokemon. 4/5

Pidgeotto: You win some and you lose some. The improved crest is actually pretty awesome, but the loss of the floof on the chest and wings is a serious disappointment. The tail's bicolor thing doesn't really do it for me either. The ever so slightly sharper beak is a nice touch. A solid evolution. 4/5

Pidgeot: Fun fact: I can barely tell Pidgeot and Pidgeotto apart. I mean, I can't say I hate design? The bicolor crest looks better than the bicolor tail (though I think the crest is a bit too long and flowing now). The beak is looking real mean now. The black still looks good. But it's a pretty meaningless evolution considering how closely it resembles Pidgeotto. 3/5

[Dark Holy Elf]

For what it's worth those particular two shots de-emphasise one of the greatest differences between Pidgeotto and Pidgeot: the length and shape of the crest. I tend to find that distinctive enough that the two don't blur together for me. That said it's not the most exciting evolution, and I do agree that the loss of detail on the wings and especially chest is disappointing.

[Meeplelard]

Pretty much echoing Elfboy here.  The anime showed all 3 in the same pose in one exposition about Pidgey to Pidgeot evolution and you could clearly tell what made Pidgeot different from Pidgeotto, just the images in question obscure the more telling evidence.

[Cotigo]

You suck Squirtle line.

No, you suck.

I think it'd be cool if you did them in groups instead of just going numerically.

No, you suck.

I'm for sticking with chronological order, myself.

N.... .... mmph.

You know, I was planning on hating on Pidgey

...

Fun fact: I can barely tell Pidgeot and Pidgeotto apart.

Racist.

[AndrewRogue]

Rattata: He's... okay? He's a purple rat. I dunno. Not a lot to say about him. Nothing about him really excites me, but he's not bad or anything. 3/5

Raticate: This fucker, on the other hand, sucks. Why can you not close your mouth? Why are you INCAPABLE OF MOVING YOU FAT BASTARD WITH YOUR TINY LIMBS? First you draw an oval, then you draw the rest of the Raticate. The tufts of fur are are a nice improvement over Rattata, but that's about it. 1/5

Spearow: Spearow... baffles me. Great head (so ruffled!) with it's wonderfully fierce beak and eyes. The red wings are a nice contrast. The feet are nicely taloned for wrecking shit. But that body. That body. Why is he mostly sleek black? Why does he have armored plates? Seriously. Remove the middle part of Spearow and you have a good design. As is... meh. 3/5

Fearow: See, remove that shitty middle part and you've got something cool. I really dig this design. This is a mean looking bird. Look at that face. He will FUCK YOU UP. The really long neck and beak just work for menace. The tubby body is a bit meh, as are the feet, but the wings make up for it. He's hella scruffy too, which is awesome. I really love the wing scruff. Just a really nice bird of prey/vulture, hybrid who is only really let down by the roundness of his body. 4/5

[AndrewRogue]

Ekans: Holy shit Ekans, why are you terrible? First, you are a stupid shade of purple. Second, you have stupid body segmentation. What is with all those dumb little lines, seriously? Third, tube snakes are dumb. Fourth, WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE TEETH? Wartortle has teeth. Why don't you? All that aside, the head shape is pretty nice, the eyes are cool, the yellow neckband is neat, and the rattle kinda work? But seriously, not a huge fan of this one. 1/5

Arbok: Hey, look. Teeth. Boy, a venemous snake might want those. I wonder what kind of stupid fucker wouldn't have them. This guy looks better in purple and I don't know why. The hood design is awesome. That face reads "I'm a murder snake and I will murder you." None of this excuses that stupid segmentation. Seriously. Stop doing that. 4/5

[Grefter]

I think you are inherently biased towards Ekans because of your history with reptiles and because you see him as competition.

Ekans could totes beat you at a deepthroating contest.  You don't have that same drive to remove your teeth, make your jaw detachable and have your mouth be 80% of your face.

When it comes to blowies, Ekans is DTF.

u jelly

[AndrewRogue]

Pikachu: Ah, the face of the series. What do I think of him? This is actually kind of a tough one. It's pretty obvious as to why he succeeded: he's very cute. The exceptionally simple face actually works pretty well in his favor, with the rosy red cheeks, decently sized eyes, and cat-like mouth. The tail tells you everything you need to know about his type. The stripes on his back serve to nicely break-up the yellow, as does the patterning of the tail.

There really is a lot of good here, but ultimately, I get kinda hung up on how round Pikachu is, particularly around the face. But hey, credit to one of the chubby pokes that looks like it can actually get around as a quadraped. 4/5

Raichu: You know, I used to like Raichu's design, but more review puts it into the same category of design as Wartortle: it glues a bunch of unnecessary stuff onto Pikachu's basic model. The color scheme works way less well (it clashes all over) and it looks far clunkier. Meh. 2/5

Sandshrew: Fucking adorable. Another really stellar pokemon design. Very nice rodent design. The addition of the brick-like, armored back adds a nice element of fantasy to the creature. Simple and effective. 5/5

Sandslash: I think Sandslash is a nice evolution of Sandshrew, trading the brick for spines and the claws sharpening significantly. Color scheme and overall shape remains pretty good. The forelegs frustrate me, though. Most angles have them looking segmented, which, in case you haven't gathered, I despise. 4/5

[Captain K]

Doesn't like segments, does like bricks.  Got it.

[AndrewRogue]

Body segmentation on non-bugs/non-crustaceans is a terrible thing.

Brick patterning is different and, in this specific case, works really well on its subject.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Segmentation doesn't stop Arbok's design from being great. Totally a pokemon I would fan over if he wasn't so consistently bad in every game (besides being kinda okay at wrap-spam in RBY).

My thoughts mirror yours pretty well on Raichu; I used to like its design a lot, but I think I was maybe more attached to the idea of "grown up Pikachu" than its actual execution. Its RBY sprite made it look larger than it actually is, too, which I think was a good thing as Raichu is IMO too small for the look it is going for.

Pikachu is outstanding; I can't count the number of times I've seen non-pokemon players react to it with a "awww, that's adorable!" in a way that few other pokemon can manage. Its design just works, I dunno.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I like Raichu's tail but agree about his design looking like Pikachu with more stuff glued on and an inferior color scheme.

Pretty much every other Pika-clone looks nicer than Raichu.

Sandslash is awesome. Segments be damned.

[Meeplelard]

Pikachu is outstanding; I can't count the number of times I've seen non-pokemon players react to it with a "awww, that's adorable!" in a way that few other pokemon can manage. Its design just works, I dunno.

Piggybacking off this, I believe it was Ciato who, when playing Leaf Green for the first time, came into chat yelling "I saw a Pikachu and caught one! IT WAS SO CUTE I HAD TO GET IT!!!"  Just one such example of Pikachu having the "awwww, adorable!"

That aspect possibly combined with how Pikachu is pretty much the first remotely interesting Non-Starter Pokemon in the Gen 1 games to show up (he's this adorable electric rodent that shows up when you're fighting just generic looking bugs, birds and rats.   Something like that is going to stand out provided you run into him), and then consider the age demographic of the original games (kids ranging from like 6 to 14), it's really easy to see why Pikachu just ended up being this extremely big favorite that opened the path to him being the series mascot, and he remains appealing enough to stand the test of time and work in the long term as well.

[AndrewRogue]

Holy crap, it's been five days. Sorry about that! Let's do a healthy number as an apology. Two big evolutionary lines!

Nidoran (Girl): A variant rodent pokemon. And the original gendered line. Woo. Variant rodent design with a touch of dinosaur to it. It works. Doesn't particularly wow me or anything, but it functions. It definitely has the feel of a fantastic rodent though, with the little back spines and uniquely clawed feet. 3/5

Nidorina: A solid evolution. Bigger and tougher, while still maintaining the rodent dinosaur qualities. Still not overly inspired by it (and it has that stupid shoulder plate thing), but it works. Gen 3 sprite is great. 3/5

Nidoqueen: I hate this design so very much. It's terrible. The bikini cut is ridiculous, going full on T-Rex really reduces the interesting elements of the rodent/dinosaur thing, and did I mention that goddamn bikini cut? Seriously. Why? We establish a gender differential early on in the line (color and spines and such) and then STILL insist on boobs on a reptile mouse. Argh. 1/5

Nidoran (Boy): I actually dig the boy Nidoran quite a bit. Nicely similar to the girl Nidoran, but sharper and spikier which I think is a positive trade. This thing I'd use in a fight. It also needs to see and orthodontist, though. Those front teeth (that front tooth?) needs some work. Also purple is a better color than that weird light blue. 4/5

Nidorino: Hm. I was actually expecting to like this one a bit more. My memory had it a little differently. The utter lack of a neck is upsetting me greatly. Good body and head otherwise (same deal as Nidorina: just a nice evolution that maintains the cool stuff), but seriously, the brickhouse look isn't working at this size or with this build. 2/5

Nidoking: It's better than Nidoqueen! The segmentation here works better due to hoar armory it looks, the shape properly builds into a mean looking motherfucker, and it doesn't have a bikini cut. I failed to mention this back under Nidoqueen, but the lack of mottling is bad for both of these evolutions, as it makes them look too smooth and clean. Just a little bit of the mottling would have improved both these designs substantially. 2/5

[DjinnAndTonic]

The thing about the Nidorans is that I always forget they are poison-type.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I always forget that they're ground, myself. There's nothing remotely ground-ish about them and they learn no ground moves IIRC. That said they're not much better on the poison front (they are uh purple). They just feel completely generic to me.

Also they are lame designs. Pretty easily my two least favourite lines in the thread so far.

[Grefter]

Pretty sure that means we split it down the middle and expect everyone to remember them as Normal boring trash.

[Cotigo]

Could you start including the names of the pokemon next to the pictures? It's been ages since I played and honestly I thought the blue one was the male line until we got to Bikini Dinosaur Gendering.