Author Topic: Twink League 2014 Finals  (Read 728 times)

Cmdr_King

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Twink League 2014 Finals
« on: January 12, 2015, 10:11:25 PM »
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)
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SnowFire

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 11:14:09 PM »
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)
2nd match in a row that Ramza wins with Innocent?  Yuck Math Skill but since apparently Ramza can guarantee Lenna's hit if he hits himself as well and his speed isn't prime, and the hit rate is 100% and undodgable because that's fair...  Lenna's backup physical game is not beating out Ninja Ramza.  (Unless some part of her skillset is seen as ignoring the 0% hit rate she now has on status & 0 damage...  maybe Golem?  In FFT I think that'd still work at 0 Faith since it's based on HP...  Dunno about FF5 Golem though.)

Random Consonant

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2015, 03:18:00 AM »
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V) - Doubt Faith shouldn't be particularly close to 100% hit rate (only 150 base, still subject to faith, Math Skill doesn't make it any more accurate, in fact Ramza needs 10 MA to make it turn 1 against average mdef, for all that it's surely turn 1 against him) so if it doesn't trump Reset Lenna wins period.  If it does, which tbh is the view I'm inclined to take because seriously yuck to Reset, then Ramza needs to deal about 0.363 a swing to 3HKO her which he can surely manage under Ubersquire regardless of how I view the damage while having the required 10 MA to land Innocent on her turn 1 and the speed needed to beat her to the punch, and I'm not inclined to believe FF5 Golem should get some special bypass in that regard.  So yeah, saved once again by Math Skill and Concentrate.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 03:22:10 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 07:22:56 AM »
FFT Golem doesn't work when you're Innocent (it runs off your Magic stat and Faith just like any other spell, it just has a super-high base hit rate), which is a good case to say FF5's doesn't either, even though it technically doesn't run off any magical stats. The same can probably be said for Quick and Return.

The problem, for me, is Spellblade. I'm not really inclined to see Innocent turning that off. It is not based off magic stats, and unlike Golem doesn't have an FFT analog to call it Faith-based... in fact it is closest to FFT swordskills. The only thing which gives me pause is that is vulnerable to Silence, but eh, so are Truth and Talk Skill in FFT, and those aren't Faith-based, so I don't think that's good enough. Of course, this just forces Ramza's reaction into Blade Grasp or something like that, which should give him the time he needs.

Can Ramza kill in time, though? He'll get three more turns after the Innocent, but can't use Magic and his secondary is locked, as is his hat and he needs something to hit 10 MA... although wait, Bracer goes a long way. Yeah, think that's good enough, Power Sleeve Bracer Rune Blade Thief Hat gives him the PA, the MA, and the speed he needs, here.

So near as I can tell Lenna needs to have Quick or Return work (Quick's extra turns let her punch through Blade Grasp in time, Return is obvious), or Golem, but since Innocent explicitly shuts down all Time and Summon in FFT, including analogs to two out of those three spells, I'm not inclined to hype this. Alternatively you could let her Defend, but I do not.

Ramza


EDIT: Okay, one other angle I should actually look at is Lenna using Lamia's Tiara, which trades away status immunity and a bunch of speed for 5 MDef, which given the dangerous zone Doubt Faith resides in could be critical. It does leave her open to some status, but the most accurate one which would be (very) deadly is Silence Song (which can also be blocked by a robe, but that would undo the MDef benefit). The questions would then be if Lenna's MEvade could save her from that, and that depends a bit on how much you respect an MEvade stat the entire cast has, as well as how much you respect an MDef push from a universal option (i.e. if you averaged it in, there's no change at all!). I don't think this changes my vote but it's something to think about.

Final four has had some excellent matches honestly, even if I suspect they'll all end up blowouts because we convince each other too damn well. <_<
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 01:22:09 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 11:41:45 AM »
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V) - I don't think I have anything to add here. Cool analysis, though.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
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[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 12:54:15 AM »
FFT Golem doesn't work when you're Innocent (it runs off your Magic stat and Faith just like any other spell, it just has a super-high base hit rate)

Wow, impressive knowledge of the Battle Mechanics Guide.  Checking it: Success% = [(CFa * (MA + 200)) / 100]  , so even if you have 1 Faith and 0 MA somehow, you still have a 200% hit rate with it pre-Zodiac.  Talk about "super-high base hit rate" indeed...  always some new bit of FFT obscura to learn.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 01:14:20 AM »
Nah, that formula is spitting out a percent, not a decimal number, so Golem would have a 2% chance of success in that case. However, as long as you have at least 50 Faith, the spell will always succeed.

(I have actually seen Golem have a sub-100% hit rate before, and I was very surprised to see it. I assume I was sending some low-faith fighter type to unlock Bard or something and picked up Golem along the way since a low-faith male isn't going to be doing much with Summoner JP otherwise.)

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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Twink League 2014 Finals
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 01:16:56 AM »
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)
I see Spellblade working perfectly under Innocent.  Landing a hit through shield + Hamedo, ha ha not happening in time.  Elf sums this up well.

I'm such a derp, forgetting about Hamedo for Ramza vs Squall.  Oh well, no impact on final outcome.