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Unranked Games / Cthulhu Saves Christmas

« on: December 24, 2023, 05:09:28 AM »

Cthulhu Saves Christmas



Spreadsheet used for stat topic construction, which includes all equipment and ability data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xa3ZAYWhBS_jKfRTDv966waR4_R4phiiOW7XpedJvF4/edit?usp=sharing


Stats

HP: Die if this is lowered below 1... unless you have the unstoppable status; see below.
Power: Base stat for damage, both physical and magical
Speed: Go earlier in the turn order. CSC does not normally allow doubleturns, and you enter commands whenever you get your turn, so this is relatively weak as far as speed stats go. Note that Cthulhu always goes first in every battle, so his listed speed is cosmetic.
Healing: Base stat for healing abilities used by the character
Ailment: Makes it easier for the character to inflict ailments, increases the damage dealt by poison this character inflicts, and increases resistance to enemy ailment attacks


Basic calculations

Damage = Power stat * Move power * Elemental modifier * turn modifier
Healing = Healing stat * Move power
Ailment damage = Ailment stat * Move power

For enemies, the median and most common elemental modifier is 0.85, so that is what damage is taken against. The exceptions are Pierce attacks (ITD), which always use a modifier of 1, and poison, for which the median / most common enemy modifier is 0.8.

For PCs, elemental modifier = 100% - target's resistance.

Note that CSC uses a "physical" element rather than having distinct physical/magical damage types. "Wind" includes lightning. For non-elemental magic damage from other games, as well as elements not present in CSC (e.g. holy/light, water) I suggest using the PC's median non-physical resistance, and that is how I have calculated "magic durability" seen in the stat topic.

Turn modifier is always 1 for damage dealt by PCs. For damage dealt by enemies, it begins the battle at 1, but then increases roughly as follows:
-About 16.7% of base damage (1/6) for every previous turn the enemy has gotten. Turns the enemy gets while stunned do not count toward this.
-About 13% of base damage (might be 1/8=12.5% or 4/30=13.3%) if the enemy is Insane.

For example, an insane enemy on their fifth turn will have their base damage multiplied by (1 + 0.167*4 + 0.13) ~= 180%.

Insane

Insane is a status effect, used exclusively by PCs (specifically Cthulhu) against enemies. Insane always works, nothing is immune. Once inflicted, it never wears off. It has the following effects:
-Insane enemies take 30% more damage from dark-elemental attacks, and 10% more damage from everything else, except pierce (ITD) damage which is unaffected.
-Insane enemies deal slightly more damage, as noted above.
-According to the game descriptions, insane enemies are more susceptible to Charm, Vulnerable, and Enrage, but less susceptible to Stun and Disarm. No clue by how much in either case.

Unlike in Cthulhu Saves the World, enemy skillsets are unaffected by Insane.

Hyper and Desperation

Returning from Cosmic Star Heroine, though slightly modified.

Every character has a "hyper gauge" which increases by one hyper bar at the start of each turn. When the gauge fills up, the character gets a hyper turn. In hyper, characters' abilities are usually more powerful, though exactly how varies by ability. A damage boost of 1.5x or 2x is pretty common, but sometimes the ability may become multitarget instead, for example. Once the character takes a hyper turn, their hyper gauge is set to zero. If the character suffers from stun (which prevents action), they also get no hyper bar for that turn.

Desperation is when a character is alive despite having less than 1 HP. To access this, the character must be in "unstoppable" status (every character has some method of accessing this). If the character is in unstoppable status, any damage they take which reduces them below 1 HP will not kill them, but will instead send them into desperation. The unstoppable status itself will end as soon as the character drops below 1 HP and can not be reapplied until the character is above 1 HP again.

While in desperation, the character can continue to take damage, taking their HP further into the negatives, or receive healing. The character will get one more turn, and then die at the end of that turn. If the character heals to 1 HP or more before the end of said turn (on their action or another), the desperation state ends and they survive. Any damage the character deals while in desperation is multiplied by 1.5. Healing is not affected this way; not sure about ailments.

Status ailments

No enemies are immune to status ailments. PCs sometimes are! A fun reversal.

Recent Zeboyd games (including CSC) use an unusual system where enemies have an "HP" stat associated with each non-poison status ailment. That is, they have a "Stun HP", a "Disarm HP", and so on. Hitting an enemy with an ailment does "ailment damage" to said ailment HP. If the ailment HP reaches zero, the ailment is inflicted. The starting point for each ailment HP varies both by enemy and the ailment in question, and the stats are hidden so it's difficult to test all of them. Once the enemy receives an ailment, their ailment HP for that ailment will be set higher than it was originally, so it becomes progressively harder to inflict a given ailment on the same enemy multiple times.

I suspect PCs use the same system. The game states that the Ailment stat makes it harder to land ailments on a character, so one possibility is that the game uses the Ailment stat to as the starting "HP" value of enemy-inflicted ailments. But I'm not sure.
 
From general observation, I'm inclined to say that most ailments should land on the first try against an average opponent if their user is in hyper (>= 360 ailment damage) and typically don't otherwise, unless the attack in question has an ailment multiplier greater than 1. This might deserve more testing.

Poison is different: it always works, but the damage it does is subject to the target's poison elemental modifier.

Poison: afflicted target takes damage at the start of their turn. This damage can be fatal, and kicks in even if the target is stunned. Does not wear off.

Disarm: afflicted target deals 35% less damage. Lasts until the target takes a non-stunned turn, whether or not they deal damage on that turn. Non-damage actions are not affected.

Stun: afflicted target loses their turn. The turn does not count toward status duration or enemy turn modifier, but poison and regen do kick in. Lasts one turn.

Enrage: afflicted target deals 25% less damage with multitarget attacks. They are also easily taunted by any damage they receive; that is, they will use singletarget attacks against whoever targeted them most recently, usually. Does not wear off.

Vulnerable: the next instance of damage the target takes is multiplied by 1.5. Sadly, poison counts toward this, which tends to be a bit of a waste. Lasts until damaged.

Charm: afflicted target attacks themself or an ally; if they use a healing move, that targets the enemies instead. Lasts until the target takes a non-stunned turn.
-> Charmed enemies deal far more raw damage than they do when targeting PCs, which makes sense given the different HP scales. Healing's raw numeric value is unchanged. No enemies use Charm against PCs.

Successfully inflicting an ailment with finite duration on a target already affected by it (relatively difficult to do) will extend its duration by one instance of received damage for Vulnerable, and one turn for other ailments. Inflicting poison on an already poisoned target will cause the higer poison damage to take effect, but they do not stack.

From a DL scaling perspective, it is worth noting that final dungeon enemies, when charmed, do damage which is remarkably close to the PC average damage in this stat topic... on turn 1. Charmed enemy damage is affected by the turn modifier! So e.g. if enemy is charmed for their fourth turn, they will do 1.5x their base damage. This makes Charm an incredibly dangerous status in a long fight. (This is true in-game as well; charm can easily do many thousands of damage.)

PC Abilities

PCs have access to eight abilities during battle, and use one on each turn (PCs can also use items or unite attacks, but neither is DL-relevant). Most abilities can be used once, and then can not be accessed until the PC recharges. Some abilities are flagged as "reusable", which means they can be used on any turn.

-One ability is the PC's defend/recharge command. These are unique to each PC (yes! An unquestionably legal defend command!), multiply incoming damage by a certain percentage for one turn, and also recharge all used abilities.
-Four of them are normal abilities, which must be chosen before the fight.
-Three of them are insanity abilities. These are randomly chosen when the fight starts. They can be chosen from the list of whatever abilities the PC has not set for their main four, in addition to a list of insanity-only abilities. The game "rerolls" the insanity abilities whenever the PC recharges, whether the insanity abilities were used or not. Since they can not be chosen, they should probably be ignored in the DL, although a general observation that PCs will likely have one or two extra sources of damage should be noted.

I will list a recommended default DL set by placing those four abilities at the top, but will emphasize that these can easily be swapped between fights in-game.

In the stat topic entries, the hyper mode version of each ability is shown in brackets. Also note that abilities listed with "Ally" targeting CAN target the user unless otherwise noted.


Other Interpretation Notes

Levels are taken at 38, which is where I finished both times I played the game. Abilities gained after this level are ignored.

Between dungeons, Cthulhu can visit various locations to deepen his r'lyehtionships (yes) with his fellow party members and various NPCs. Each such event provides a reward of some sort, either an item or piece of equipment. 28 such events can be done over the course of the game. For this thread, I've assumed that no PC has access to more than 7 such events' worth of gear. This didn't end up mattering as much as I expected because most of the best gear is found in the final dungeon anyway.


Averages up top
HP: 477
Speed: 306 (excluding Cthulhu)
Ailment: 304 (used for status resistance)
Physical resist: 38.75
Three-turn damage: 492 per turn
Kill point: 1230


Cthulhu

Hyper on turn 2, 5, 8, 11, ...

Eldritch Sword (20% more damage vs insane enemies)
Eldrich Tunic (immune to ailments)
Life Tentacle (start: unstoppable)

HP 498, Pow 344, Spd 251, Heal 177, Ail 295
Resistances: 40 phys, 60 dark, 40 ice, 40 wind, 45 other magic.
Durability: 1.07 physical, 1.14 magical
Takes 27% less from dark, 9% extra from ice/wind

Cthulhu's speed stat is ignored; he always goes first

Alternative equips:
Sharp Tentacle: -25 HP and -5 all resistances (durability becomes 0.97/1.03), lose unstoppable, gain 35 power (+10%) and 35 ailment (+12%)

Abilities:
Taunt (locked) - Self: -40% damage taken for 1 turn. Recharge. (Self: -60% damage taken for 1 turn. Recharge.)
Dark Blast - One: 350 Dark. Insane (One: 701 Dark. Insane)
Berserk - One: 584 Physical. User: -50% Def penalty until next turn (One: 877 Physical. User: -50% Def penalty until next turn)
Shadow Strike - One: 365 Physical. 50% more damage vs insane enemies (One: 584 Dark. 50% more damage vs insane enemies)
Torment - One: 584 Dark. Can't kill (One: 877 Dark. Can't kill)
-
Slash - One: 292 Physical. Reusable (One: 438 Physical. Reusable)
Tentacles - All: 204 Physical.  (All: 409 Physical. )
Unstoppable - Self: 141 Heal. Cures ailments (Self: 212 Heal. Cures ailments. Unstoppable buff)
Plague - All: 118 Poison.  (All: 188 Poison. )
Fireball - Row: 380 Fire.  (All: 380 Fire. )
Terrify - One: 1x Stun. Insane (One: 2.5x Stun. Insane)
Piercing Strike - One: 430 Pierce.  (One: 688 Pierce. )
Madness - All: Insane. Reset user insanity slots (All: Insane. Reset party insanity slots)
Bootleg -  Next item used is free ( Next item used is free. Reusable)
Shatter Strike - One: 292 Physical. 0.75x Vulnerable (One: 438 Physical. 1.5x Vulnerable)
Gathering Dark - Self: Power boost to next move. 25% per insane enemy, min 50% (Self: 177 Heal. Power boost to next move. 25% per insane enemy, min 50%)
Chaos Strike - One: 292 Physical. 25% more damage per spent ability (One: 584 Physical. 25% more damage per spent ability)

Insanity abilities:
Mock - One: 1x Enrage (All: 1x Enrage)
Bury - One: 380 Earth.  (All: 380 Earth. )
Lightning - One: 467 Air.  (Row: 467 Air. )
Necronomicon - Ally: 35% more dmg against insane enemies. Power=Ailment. 5 turns (Ally: 35% more dmg against insane enemies. Power=Ailment. 10 turns)
Void - All: 292 Dark.  (All: 438 Dark. )
Disarm - One: 292 Physical. 1x Disarm (One: 438 Physical. 2x Disarm)
Hyper Strike - One: 146 Physical.  (One: 1023 Physical. )
Finisher - One: 365 Physical. Double damage if enemy HP under 25% (One: 731 Physical. Double damage if enemy HP under 25%)
Inferno - All: 467 Fire.  (All: 701 Fire. )

Optimum three-turn damage:
Dark Blast (350, insane) + Hyper Shadow Strike (1366) + Berserk (770) = 2486/3 = 829
If Cthulhu's third attack is not a kill, he can use Torment instead of Berserk and do even more damage.

Comments: Cthulhu is very good. Deals one-hit kill damage on turn 2, and is very good at living to turn 2, between ailment immunity, unstoppable, and first strike. He can do good damage either via dark or physical, and can fish for even more damage via Gathering Dark or (in long fights) Chaos Strike, so he has no shortage of ways to overcome hardier foes and/or bypass limits. High Heavy.


Crystal

Hyper on turn 3, 6, 9, 12, ...

Caduceus Wand (regen abilities +50%, factored in)
Caduceus Robe (Gentle Rain ability becomes reusable)
Apocalypse Cloak (start: unstoppable; damage x1.5 when desperate)

HP 423, Pow 296, Spd 314, Heal 339, Ail 254
Resistances: 35 phys, 35 dark, 40 ice, 35 other magic.
Durability: 0.84 physical, 0.82 magical
Takes 15% extra from fire, 8% less from ice

Alternative equips:
Hyper Wand: -25 power (-8%), -30 speed, -45 heal (-13%; -42% regen), -85 ailment (-33%); hyper on turn 1 and every 3 turns thereafter
Frozen Wand: -15 power (-5%), -35 speed, -50 heal (-15%; -43% regen), -35 ailment (-14%); ice damage x1.2 (overall +14% ice damage)
Glamourous Cloak: -30 power (-10%), -30 speed, -30 heal (-9%), lose unstoppable; +40 HP (+9%), +10 ailment (+4%), Hyper Mistletoe becomes more powerful

Abilities:
Inspire (locked) - Party: -20% damage taken for 1 turn. Recharge. (Party: -40% damage taken for 1 turn. Recharge.)
Good Cheer - Ally: 152 Regen for 3 turns (Party: 152 Regen for 3 turns)
Mistletoe - One: 1x Charm (One: 1.5x Charm. Charmed target deals double damage [with Glamourous Cloak, triple damage])
Warm Wishes - Ally: Adds hyper bar. Reusable (Ally: Max hyper bar. Reusable)
Resolution - Ally: 339 Heal. Max HP +30% for 1 turn (Ally: 508 Heal. Max HP +30% for 3 turns)
-
Chill - One: 251 Ice. Next stun on target is 50% stronger (One: 377 Ice. Next stun on target is 50% stronger)
Hot Chocolate - Ally: 339 Heal.  (Ally: 339 Heal. 177 Regen for 3 turns)
Wrap - One: 1x Stun (One: 1.5x Stun. No penalty vs insane)
Freeze - One: 176 Ice. 0.5x Stun (One: 352 Ice. 1x Stun)
Cleanse - Ally: Cures. May recharge 1 ability (Party: Cures. May recharge 1 ability)
Second Chance - One: Unstoppable buff (Party: Unstoppable buff)
Throw Gift - One: 201 Physical. More damage with more used items (up to 2.5x damage) (One: 301 Physical. More damage with more used items (up to 2.5x damage))
Gentle Rain - Party: 118 Heal.  (Party: 237 Heal. )
Blizzard - All: 276 Ice.  (All: 415 Ice. )
Peace on Earth - All: 1.5x Stun. Stuns user (All: 2x Stun)
Revive - One: 50 Heal. Revives. (One: 101 Heal. Revives.)

Insanity abilities:
Smack - One: 314 Physical.  (One: 629 Physical. )
Bury - One: 327 Earth.  (All: 327 Earth. )
Lightning - One: 402 Air.  (Row: 402 Air. )
Heal - Ally: 339 Heal.  (Party: 339 Heal. )
Buff Up - Ally: 35% more damage for 3 turns (Ally: 35% more damage for 6 turns)
Flurry - One: 251 Ice. Target takes double damage from next ice attack (One: 503 Ice. Target takes double damage from next ice attack)
Secret Santa - Ally: Double ailment power on next ailment (Party: Double ailment power on next ailment)
Sweet Dreams - Ally: Recharge abilities (Ally: 678 Heal. Recharge abilities)
Christmas Eve - Self: 50% more hyper damage next turn (Self: No effect)

Optimum three-turn damage:
Chill (251) + Blizzard (276) + Hyper Freeze (352) = 879/3 = 293


Comments: Crystal's gameplan is simple. Charm -> opponent one-shots themself, or at least comes close enough that she can finish with some damage move. Between the turn modifier bonus and Mistletoe's hyper bonus, she should be able to pull this off. Healing and regen can buy her time, or Warm Wishes can speed her to hyper turns. She's a bit frail and is not good if charm is blocked, since her damage is both unimpressive and all ice-elemental, though Apocalypse Cloak can let her do a lot of damage on her desperation turn, at least. Note that Unstoppable is not very useful if she's planning to kill with charm, because she'll die after inflicting it but before the opponent can kill themself. Her ailment stat also isn't great so it shouldn't take much to make her charm turn 2, at which point she'll need to waste an extra turn recharging it as well. Middle.


Baba Yaga

Hyper on turn 4, 6, 8, 10, ...

Tornado Pestle (wind damage +20%; factored in)
Cosmic Dress (+20% damage with insanity abilities; factored in)
Rebirth Egg (start: unstoppable)

HP 435, Pow 261, Spd 280, Heal 228, Ail 349
Restiances: 30 phys, 40 dark, 40 wind, 30 other magic.
Durability: 0.80 physical, 0.78 magical
Takes 14% less from dark/wind

Alternative equips:
Shield Pestle: -80 power (-30%), -60 speed, -90 ailment (-26%), lose wind boost (overall -42% wind damage); +20 HP and +5 all resistances (durability becomes 0.87/0.85)
Pure Pestle: -60 power (-23%), -50 speed, -10 heal (-4%), -70 ailment (-20%), lose wind boost (overall -36% wind damage); gain immunity to ailments
Faberge Egg: -50 HP (-11%), -50 heal (-22%), lose unstoppable; +50 speed, +50 ailment (+14%)

About Chicken:
-Baba Yaga has a unique mechanic called chicken power. Chicken power begins the battle at 0%, but various abilities or equipment can increase it. The maximum chicken power is 200%.
-When an ability with the "Chicken" tag is used (be it damage or ailment), the power of that move (damage or ailment damage) is multiplied by (100%+Chicken power). Immediately after, chicken power is set to 0%.

About Power=Ailment:
This status effect causes the ailment stat to be used in place of the power stat in damage calculations. I believe the power stat will still be used if it is higher, but I haven't formally tested that. In Baba's case using her default gear, Power=Ailment results in her doing 34% more damage.

Abilities:
Cooped Up (locked) - Self: -15% damage taken for 1 turn. Chicken power +50%. Recharge. (Self: -30% damage taken for 1 turn. Chicken power +50%. Recharge.)
Chicken Feed - Self: 228 Heal. Chicken power +50%. Power=Ailment for 3 turns. Reusable (Self: 228 Heal. Chicken power +100%. Power=Ailment for 5 turns. Reusable)
Chicken Dance - One: 1x Charm. Chicken (One: 2x Charm. Chicken)
Wind Arrow - One: 399 Wind.  (One: 798 Wind. )
Mighty Peck - One: 277 Physical. Chicken (One: 554 Physical. Chicken)
-
Biting Winds - All: 266 Wind.  (All: 399 Wind. )
Rotten Egg - One: 139 Poison. Chicken (One: 223 Poison. Chicken)
Mortar Combat - One: 277 Physical.  (One: 277 Physical. Double next item power)
Bagawk - All: 0.5x Stun. Chicken (All: 0.9x Stun. Chicken)
Break - One: 1x Vulnerable (One: 2x Vulnerable)
Wither - One: 1.25x Disarm (One: 2.5x Disarm)
Toil and Trouble - Self: Double next ailment power (Self: Double next ailment power. Reusable)
Clockwork - Ally: 15% speed up for 4 turns (Party: 15% speed up for 4 turns)
Rooster Cry - Party: Cure (Party: Cure. Chicken power +100%)
Nyah Nyah - One: 1.5x Enrage. Chicken power +50% self (One: 3x Enrage. Chicken power +75% self)
Chickenize -  Next move has the chicken property ( Next move has the chicken property. Chicken power +50%)

Insanity abilities:
Burn - One: 372 Fire.  (One: 558 Fire. )
Bury - One: 345 Earth.  (All: 345 Earth. )
Icicle - One: 372 Ice.  (One: 558 Ice. )
Lightning - One: 425 Air.  (Row: 425 Air. )
Necronomicon - Ally: 35% more dmg against insane enemies. Power=Ailment. 5 turns (Ally: 35% more dmg against insane enemies. Power=Ailment. 10 turns)
Disarm - One: 266 Physical. 1x Disarm (One: 399 Physical. 2x Disarm)
Hurricane - All: 558 Wind.  (All: 558 Wind. Reusable)
Apply Leeches - One: Deal x3 poison damage as Dark damage (One: Dark damage based on poison damage)

Optimum three-turn damage:
Mortar Combat (277) + Mighty Peck (277) + Wind Arrow (399) = 953/3 = 318


Comments: Baba's main strategy is to repeatedly heal using Chicken Feed, powering up Mighty Peck for a one-shot. If she can make it to turn 4 she can do a crazy ~1855 damage with this. If she can spare a turn on Chickenize she can do some truly crazy damage with Wind Arrow this way as well. Charm's also a good option, with even a bit of chicken power it should likely be turn 1 without the need for hyper. She's a bit frail so her healing isn't too hard to overwhelm, though. She can either up her durability or get status immunity, but both come at a big hit to damage and turn 1 speed. Probably some sort of Middle.


Belsnickel

Hyper on turn 1, 5, 9, 13, ...

Metal Whip (physical damage +20%; factored in)
Gold Coat
Peppermint Candy

HP 551, Pow 325, Spd 325, Heal 304, Ail 316
Resistances: 50 all
Durability: 1.42 physical, 1.39 magical

Alternative equips:
Ratty Coat: -130 HP, -25/30 resistances (durability becomes 0.85/0.80), -30 all stats (-9% damage/ailment, -10% heal); gain immunity to ailments
Christmas Coat: -35 HP and -5 resistances (durability becomes 1.25/1.23), -15 all stats (-5% damage/ailment/heal); Jolly Laugh becomes resuable

Abilities:
Defend (locked) - Self: -40% damage taken for 1 turn. Recharge. (Self: -80% damage taken for 1 turn. Recharge.)
Bash - One: 331 Physical.  (One: 828 Physical. )
Jolly Laugh - Self: 364 Heal. Taunt (Self: 608 Heal. Taunt. Max HP +30% for one turn)
Nice Strike - One: 331 Physical. Double damage if user's HP at max (One: 580 Physical. Double damage if user's HP at max)
Slap Sense - One: 414 Physical. Removes insane (One: 828 Physical. Removes insane)
-
Candy - Ally: 273 Heal. Taunt (Ally: 273 Heal. Taunt. Unstoppable buff)
Protect - Ally: Resistances +20% for 3 turns (Party: Resistances +20% for 3 turns)
Sandstorm - All: 276 Earth.  (All: 414 Earth. )
Naughty - Ally: 35% more damage for 3 turns (Ally: 35% more damage for 6 turns)
Nice - Ally: 65% more Heal power for 4 turns (Party: 65% more Heal power for 4 turns)
Enrage Blow - One: 331 Physical. 1x Enrage (One: 497 Physical. 2x Enrage)
Naughty Strike - One: 331 Physical. More damage if user's HP is low (up to 2x damage) (One: 663 Physical. More damage if user's HP is low (up to 2x damage))
Tag - Ally: Taunt up (Ally: More taunt up)
Entomb - One: 345 Earth.  (One: 690 Earth. )
Celebrate - Party: Gain a hyper bar (Party: Gain a hyper bar. Reusable, user remains in Hyper)
Silver Fox - All: 0.5x Charm (All: 1.5x Charm)
Punish - One: 331 Physical. x2 damage to enraged (One: 331 Physical. x5 damage to enraged)

Insanity abilities:
Disarm - One: 331 Physical. 1x Disarm (One: 497 Physical. 2x Disarm)
Burn - One: 386 Fire.  (One: 580 Fire. )
Icicle - One: 386 Ice.  (One: 580 Ice. )
Buff Up - Ally: 35% more damage for 3 turns (Ally: 35% more damage for 6 turns)
Heal - Ally: 304 Heal.  (Party: 304 Heal. )
Grab Bag -  Recharge an item ( Recharge all items)
Final Blow - One: 165 Physical. x5 damage if desperate (One: 497 Physical. x5 damage if desperate)

Optimum three-turn damage:
Hyper Bash (828) + Slap Sense (414) + Entomb (345) = 1587/3 = 529



Comments: Good durability, and he has lots of ways to win. If he goes first he can use Nice Strike for 1160 damage which is massive. In longer fights he can use healing (it's even spammable at a slight damage hit), with options like Enrage -> Punish for a turn 5 kill (or 4 with Celebrate), Naughty for buffing his damage, Candy for unstoppable, and charm. Like Baba he has access to status immunity but the hit to his durability is dire. Probably fits somewhere in Heavy.


Averages
HP: 477
Speed: 306 (excluding Cthulhu)
Ailment: 304 (used for status resistance)
Physical resist: 38.75
Three-turn damage: 492 per turn
Kill point: 1230

2

Unranked Games / Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope

« on: January 01, 2023, 06:59:54 PM »

The basics

The game is similar to the first mechanically. This post will assume you are unfamiliar with the first, though (lots of copy/paste follows!).

Gameplay is phase-based, similar to Fire Emblem or XCOM. Player phase first, then enemy phase. There are usually three PCs in a fight, though a few fights give you only two or four instead.

-PC turns can be taken in any order, and PC turns can be broken up and interwoven with each other in pretty much any way imaginable. Each PC has two action points per turn. Movement doesn't take an action point, but attacking, techniques, and spark powers (see below) each do, so normally a PC can only do two of these.

-Movement is more complicated than normal! If a character has 13 m of movement, that means they can move anywhere within a 13 m circle centred upon where they started, stopping to take actions at any time during this movement. They can also jump off allies to extend their move (more on this later) or move through pipes which end their current movement but give them a fixed amount of move upon leaving the pipe.

-If a PC can reach an enemy with their movement, they can "dash" them as a free action (does not consume an action point). PCs get 1 to 4 dashes per turn, depending on the character. They can target different enemies, or the same enemy multiple times (this last part is a major change from the first Rabbids game).

-Using the attack command ends the PC's ability to move for that turn. They can still use techniques afterwards. Some PCs break this rule.

-Techniques are special moves which target either the PC using it and/or their teammates and/or all enemies in range, and include things such as healing, buffs, and "hero sight", which allows the PC to take a reaction shot against a moving enemy during the enemy phase. Each PC has one. Techniques typically have a cooldown; once used they can not be used for a certain number of turns after.

-Accuracy in this game is normally 100%. If a target (PC or enemy, they use the same mechanic) is behind low cover (various waist-high blocks), accuracy is instead 50%. If behind high cover (full-size blocks), accuracy is instead 0%, though various types of cover can be destroyed with repeated attacks. Some weapons ignore partial cover, or even all cover.

-A new feature of this game is sparks, which are equippable cute little star spirits who enhance the characters. PCs can equip two sparks each. Each spark provides a spark power (essentially a technique, costing an action point to use and having a cooldown) as well as some sort of passive benefit such as reducing incoming physical damage.

-Random variance exists on PC weapon attacks, which typically vary about +/- 10% from the listed figure. Critical hits are rolled individually for each hit of multi-hit attacks. They do not have random variance; they are instead a multiplier (usually 1.3, higher for Luigi and Bowser) on the HIGH end of the default attack's damage variance. So their effective multiplier is typically over 1.4. Specifics are listed in each entry. Movement damage does not vary or critical.

Assumptions

All characters are taken at Level 30, with 33 skill orbs.

33 skill orbs is not enough to max out everything, but for the most part it's enough to max out most DL-relevant things. Rabbid Peach has to make a few tradeoffs with respect to damage vs. healing. Note that you can change skill orb setups for free between fights.

I generally assume that cover is not a thing in the DL and that characters can get in range to use their dash abilities.

I am allowing abilities which require the use of Team Jump, which in-game requires an ally. These moves are easy to use in-game and rather iconic to the characters that get them (without it, you'd deny Mario the ability to jump on enemies, obviously non-canon). I'll flag them in case you want to ban them. If you do, Rabbid Peach loses her regen, Mario/Bowser lose damage (loads of it in Mario's case), and Luigi will have serious issues getting to his preferred range so would probably lose damage too.

Attacks which ignore partial cover should probably be seen as higher accuracy. Attacks which ignore all cover should probably be considered ITE. You could make that argument for dash as well but I dunno that I'm inclined to, since there should probably be SOME limitation on dash, which suffers from range limits compared to other options in-game and faces some bosses who are immune to it. Use your own judgement here.

I'm treating all sparks as DL-illegal. There's a case to be made for allowing initial ones, which I believe only Mario and Edge have. This would improve those characters substantially if allowed, but I'm not comfortable about scaling them against the rest of the cast not having sparks.

For characters with 40% crit or more (most of whom have multiple hits to their attacks) I'm listing their average damage. For characters with 20% crit or less, I'm listing their non-critical damage and recommend just taking their crit as a bonus in long fights.

Notes

A cooldown indicates the number of turns a weapon or technique can not be accessed after it is used once. So an ability with a 2-turn cooldown can be used on turn 1, then not again until 3 (disabled for turn 2). Every technique operates on its own cooldown. Note that a "1-turn cooldown" is effectively the same as no cooldown at all in this game.

All techniques have a one turn duration; they last until the start of the next player phase. So do all inflicted status effects, with the exception of Rabbid Rosalina's Ennui, which is enhanced by the skill tree to last one full extra turn in addition to this.

Rabbid Luigi's Weaken and Rabbid Rosalina's Ennui work on everything except the final boss (who is a bit weird). Other status effects (mostly not accessed DL-legally) are immuned individually, with bosses often immuning all of them. Some bosses are immune to dash and Mario's stomp, though not Bowser's thump.

Movement-based actions do not trigger counters. Reaction shots do. I'm not sure if counters trigger counters (an interaction which in-game could only occur between Rabbid Mario and a Depleter).

3

Unranked Games / Brigandine: Legend of Runersia

« on: December 26, 2020, 03:03:55 AM »

Brigandine: Legend of Runersia, in which six different nations each come up with their own special snowflake reason for why the rest of the continent gave them no choice but to conquer everyone. Starring pretty anime people and their multitude of magical pets.

Links

Spreadsheet used to construct the stat topic:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kDmwusNAVTMSPKLLJm8F3yxv2mU-r8FSYwEISPOnMxI/edit?usp=sharing

The most interesting tab is the "Story" tab which includes the key figures for all the characters in the main story, taken at both base and endgame levels.


Mechanics

Stats

HP and MP: You know what these do. MP starts full for each fight, similar to FFT or Shining Force.
Str: Each point adds 1.5 to Atk.
Int: Is a factor in magic damage dealt and received. Also, each point above or below average adds 1% to status accuracy and 1% to status evade.
Agi: Each point is worth 1% accuracy and 1% evade for physical attacks.
Atk: Affects physical damage dealt. In general, 1 point is slightly more than +1 physical damage dealt.
Def: Affects physical damage received, in the same way. Subtractive.
Magic pool: Affects how many monsters can be in the character's troop. Hugely important in-game but probably not in a duel.
Command area: The radius surrounding the character in which controlled monsters can fight at full potential. Again, just an in-game thing.

Formulas

Physical damage dealt = Atk + Skill Power - Def
Magical damage dealt = (1+(Int - Target Int)/200)*Spell Power
Healing = Spell Power * (Int/2 + 65)/100
Accuracy = 90 + Skill Accuracy Modifier + Agi - Target Agi
Status accuracy = 33 + Int - Target Int

The accuracy formula is only used by physical attacks and skills (some always hit; this will be noted). The status accuracy formula is only used by "pure" effect spells... any attack which adds status as an extra effect on damage has a fixed rate of doing so.

Critical hits are by default a 10% chance to do 1.25x damage, although various passives can boost this. Only singletarget physical attacks can critical. Critical hits also cause any added status effect to always be applied.

Range and counterattacks

Brigandine has counterattacks: only to physical attacks or skills, and only when in range to do so. All "basic physicals" (the ones which cost 0 MP) are counterable, while physical skills vary. As a rule, any physical skill that hits any sort of AoE can not be countered. Most non-AoE physical skills can be countered, but there are exceptions, and I will note them. No magic can be countered, nor can any attacks which don't deal damage. The skill a Brigandine PC uses to counter will be the first one I list.

Many skills can not be used after moving in Brigandine. This includes all magic and a number of physical skills, although "basic physicals" can be. In this stat topic, moves that can be used after moving will be noted with a star. Notably, characters with the Double Movement passive (allows leftover movement to be used after their action) can still move AFTER using these skills, but not before.

In-game it is possible for attackers with ranged attacks that can be used post-movement (archers, treasure hunters, elementals) or characters with Double Movement to kite certain no-move skills. As such it's pretty subjective how much certain no-move skills can be used in a duel. I'm generally inclined to always allow no-move skills which are range 2+ to be used (although with bad initiative, as above), but ones which are range 1 I'll take a harder eye on. They're certainly usable once an enemy has melee attacked the Brig character (unless that character has a Double Movement-style ability of their own), but beyond that I encourage voters to use their judgement as to when you allow their use.

Elements

Brigandine has five elements: red (R), blue (U), green (G), black (B), and white (W). My abbreivations may be stolen shamelessly from Magic the Gathering resources circa the mid 90's. The elements include some common analogs like fire, but most things in Brig use them, even things that would not normally be seen as elemental. A Sword Master or Sniper's basic attacks are still "green" but I wouldn't consider them lightning. YMMV. Anyway, the analogs:

Red includes fire
Blue includes ice
Green includes lightning
Black includes darkness
White includes light/holy

Every character has element orbs, of five colours: red, blue, green, white, and black. These influence all damage (both physical and magical). When attacking, the orbs of a character's weapon and attack used are also considered. When being attacked, the orbs of a character's armour is also considered. The colour of the orbs of both the attacker and defender are used to modify damage, as follows:

-If the orbs of the attacker hit weakness on the orbs of the defender, +4% damage per relevant orb from either side
-If the orbs of the attacker are resisted by the orbs of the defender, -4% damage per relevant orb from either side
-If the orbs of the attacker and defender are from unrelated colours (including the same colour), +2% damage per relevant orb of the attacker and -2% damage per relevant orb from the defender
-All relevant percent modifications are added together and applied to final damage, after all other steps.

Weakness relationships:
-red > green > blue > red
-black > white > black

Resistance relationship:
-red > green > blue > red

(Black and white do not resist any elements.)

Only damage is affected in this way by orbs; status rate is not affected at all. Healing is affected, but in a completely different way: healing gets a bonus of 2% * number of white orbs on the healing spell * number of white orbs on the caster.

For duelling purposes against non-Brig characters, I'm assuming that the opponent has no orbs at all (this does actually happen in-game, for the record; a number of low-level classes have no orbs). Under these conditions, a Brigandine character does +2% damage per orb, and takes -2% damage per orb. However, since all characters have three orbs, the latter effect can be ignored since it is averaged out... except for the characters with brigandines who get a further -4% damage received. This effect will be noted in their slightly higher durability.

On defence, when facing elemental attacks from enemies, just remember that each orb is a 4% weakness or 4% resistance, as appropriate. So a Sniper (GGG) takes 12% extra damage from fire and resists ice by 12%.

I'll let the individual voter decide how to deal with Brigandine elemental attacks against other game's elemental weaknesses and resistances. My inclination is to subject spells to other game's elemental defence but not physical attacks unless they have a very clear elemental flavour themselves, but YMMV.

Turn order

In-game, turn order is decided by level: highest level goes first. However, this only actually matters for one thing (see the next section), since in no battle do enemy units ever start in range of each other. Thus, in a duel, I suggest using threat range (the range of their first-turn skill, plus the mobility stat if it's one that can be used after moving). And if they plan to open with a buff... I'll leave that one up to interpretation.

Buffs, debuffs, and status

One class of buffs - Power, Halo, and Veil - last until used. Power and Halo are used up by the first attack (counters included) the affected character makes, Veil is used up by the first magic attack they take.

Other buffs and debuffs typically last for three rounds, including the round they are cast. Notably, this means this is the one place level-as-turn-order matters in a duel: higher-levelled characters will see their buffs and debuffs in effect for an extra enemy turn.

Status effects typically last 1-3 rounds, including the round they are cast (Faint is additionally cancelled by damage). So as to not spam the descriptions, here they are:

Poison: Damage at the start of each round. Need to test exact amount/duration.
Paralyze: Target can not move, act, evade, or counter.
Silence: Target can not use magic. (Physical skills can still be used.)
Faint: Target can not move, act, evade, or counter. Is cancelled if the target takes damage.
Petrify: Target can not move, act, evade, or counter. Never wears off.
Charm: Target can not counter. On its own turns, it will either attack its former allies (but not itself) or heal/buff its former enemies. Presumably does nothing if neither of these are possible, but I haven't tested.

Assumptions

Every rune knight gets 20000 exp. This is a reasonable number for your most-used knights at my rate of play, and you could probably get several more there if you play slower than me. It's also nice round number and is enough to get all knights to their final classes, while only getting a single PC to the maximum level (thus preserving his level advantage).

PCs who join after Season X are given a penalty to their Exp equal to 500*(seasons missed). PCs who join based on number of castles get 2/3 the exp amount (Jazz) or 50% the exp amount (Della and Sin) based on an estimate of how much of the game they're around for.

Fighters are assumed to promote to Knight, Knights are assumed to promote to Paladin, which is my strong guess for the best-duelling class on that line.

The current stat topic includes all rune knights, but does not include monsters. If you consider monsters (I'm pretty sure I don't, for several reasons), then the Int average probably drops, at a guess (which would make the magic durability and damage of the human PCs a bit better).

For the damage average, I used moves that can be used at least twice, and ignored any moves which can only be used at melee and can not be used after moving. You can quibble with specifics but it made things easier to calculate (a three-turn average should be similar for the record).

Average threat range is calculated using the threat range of either the PC's best damage (at least 2PB, melee-no-move skills excluded), or in some cases, their best threat range that is no more than a 20% damage cut from their best damage (this applies to Eliza, Rubino, Talia, and Treasure Hunters).

I generally don't consider initial equipment because you can move it around. However, in the interest of keeping the effort level sane, I did in fact consider some elements of initial equipment (namely their boost to core stats) because the stat data I used included those stats and I was too lazy to go leafing through 100 PCs and manually removed them. So the stat topic ends up a compromise between pure no-initial-gear and pure all-initial-gear.

On the other hand, unremovable equipment is considered in full.

Assumed target averages are 115 def, 88 int, 90 agi, 93 evade (results in 100 average hit). Physical durability is calculated using 270 atk (post-skill power). All of these are roughly taken from the PC averages themselves.

Note: If a skill can be used after moving, it will be marked with a star. The first skill listed will be the one which is used as a counterattack.


Averages

Level: 24.8
HP: 648
MP: 283
Int: 88
Atk: 135
Def: 115
Acc: 100%
Eva: 3%
Magic pool: 281
Threat range: 4.98 (SD: 1.97)
Damage: 186
Kill point: 465

Eliza - L28 Rose Valkyrie (RRR)

Blade of Moule Ange (RRR, +15 atk, +7 agi)
Glory Brigandine (RR, +15 HP, +15 def, immunes status effects)

HP 705 (1.09)
MP 392
Str 107 -> Atk 175
Def 145 (1.41 pdur)
Int 101 (13% status res, 1.21 mdur)
Agi 115 (25% eva)
Mobility 5, Magic pool 366, Command range 5

*Valkyrie Drive: 222 physical, 125% acc.
Valkyrie Inspiration: +30 Atk and +30 Def for 3 rounds, can only target allies (80 MP)
Scarlet Shudder: 197 physical, 125% acc. Uncounterable. 50% chance of -30 attack for 3 rounds [pdur becomes 1.85]. (40 MP)
Crimson Rondo: 283 physical, ITE. Hits all adjacent targets. +20 Agi to self for 3 rounds. (100 MP)

Exa-Blast: 253 fire magic, 1-2 range (152 MP)
Flame: 146 fire magic, 1-3 range (68 MP)
Accel: +20 Agi for 3 rounds, 0-4 range (42 MP)

Parry S - Has a 25% chance of parrying physical attacks from a single enemy. When triggered, damage is reduced by 50%.

Comments: Good stats as far as the eye can see, can 2HKO, can punish melee attackers hard between the counters and Crimson Rondo, which buffs her evade as a bonus.

Rubino - L23 Crown Prince (UUU)

Justice Brigandine (UU, +15 HP, +15 def, immunes status effects)

HP 780 (1.20)
MP 341
Str 111 -> Atk 166
Def 145 (1.56 pdur)
Int 106 (38% status res, 1.73 mdur)
Agi 93 (3% eva)
Mobility 5, Magic pool 341, Command range 5

*Royal Slash: 195 physical, 102% acc
Supreme Impact: 254 physical, 72% acc
Blizzard Shot: 227 physical, 89% acc, 1-2 range. 30% chance of Faint (70 MP)
Grand Finale: 259 physical, 100% acc. Uncounterable. +30 Atk and Def to self for 3 rounds [pdur becomes 2.04]. (130 MP)

Fall Berg: 233 ice magic, 1-2 range (135 MP)
Frost: 142 ice magic, 1-3 range (68 MP)
Resist: 0-4 range. Reduces magic damage and status hit rate by 33% (subtractive, in the case of status). Lasts for 3 turns. (49 MP)

Magic Barrier B - Increases Magic Resistance by 20% and decreases chances of being inflicted with status conditions by 20%. (Factored into durability figures above)

Comments: Borderline 2HKO damage with Fall Berg, and has a mix of decent physicals as well (would like more accuracy though). The magic spoiling is pretty good, especially with Resist (though low level means he probably only gets two turns out of that).

Rudo - L30 Overlord (WWW)

Sanctity Brigandine (WW, +15 HP, +15 def, immunes status effects)

870 HP (1.34)
300 MP
Str 135 -> Atk 202
Def 140 (1.67 pdur)
Int 100 (12% status res, 1.49 mdur)
Agi 100 (10% eva)
Mobility 5, Magic pool 380 (!), Command range 6 (!)

*White Conviction: 251 physical, 111% acc [301 on a counter]
*Clean Military Rule: 422 physical, 120% acc (230 MP)
God's Puppet: Inflicts Poison and +30 attack on an ally for 3 rounds, 1-2 range. Raises own attack by 50 for the next attack made. (80 MP)
Drafted Devotion: Steals all MP from an adjacent ally. Also +30 attack to self for 3 rounds.

Counter Damage Up S - Increases damage done by counterattacks by 20%.

Comments: In a duel, all he can do is hit things and hit them harder. He is still very good at that; he's very durable, and Clean Military Rule can OHKO the fragile at worst or makes for a excellent heal-lock threat at worst. The game-best magic pool and command area ensure that he's the best rune knight in-game, too.

Stella - L25 Pirate Queen (BBU)

Ego Brigandine (BB, +15 HP, +15 def, immunes status effects)

HP 780 (1.20)
MP 328
Str 113 -> Atk 169
Def 140 (1.5 pdur)
Int 97 (9% status res, 1.32 mdur)
Agi 108 (18% eva)
Mobility 6, Magic pool 340, Command range 5

*Mirelvan Ocean Cut: 204 physical, 114% acc
*Ambush: 213 physical, 100% acc. 30% chance of Faint. (30 MP)
*Blood Boiling Drink: Trades -20 Agi for +30 Atk for 3 rounds. Raises own Atk by an additional +50 for next attack only. (60 MP)
Dragon's Destruction: 251 physical, 115% acc. Uncounterable. -30 Atk and -30 Def for 3 rounds to target, +30 Atk and +30 Def for 3 rounds to self. [pdur becomes 2.77] (140 MP)

Gravity: -20 Agi and removes flying typing for 3 rounds, 1-4 range (56 MP)
Dimension: 42% chance to send target to a random location on the battlefield, 1-4 range (83 MP)
Charm: 42% chance of Charm, 1-3 range (110 MP)
Spell Break: Dispels all buffs and debuffs from target (not status effects), 0-3 range (47 MP)

Critical Damage Up - Increases damage dealt by critical hits by 25%.

Comments: Dragon's Destruction is a hell of a tide-turner against fighters if she gets it off. Otherwise she can roll the dice on either turn 2 charm or turn 3 faint (the latter WILL let her get off a DD), and is a respectable slugger.

Talia - L24 Great Mother (GGW)

Freedom Brigandine (GG, +15 HP, +15 def, immunes status effects)

HP 665 (1.03)
MP 616
Str 91 -> Atk 136
Def 135 (1.23 pdur)
Int 91 (3% status res, 1.09 mdur)
Agi 108 (18% eva)
Mobility 5, Magic pool 342, Command range 4 (-_-)

*Squall Thrust: 158 physical, 120% acc
Heavenly Sacrifice: 161 physical, 120% acc. Recovers HP equal to 50% of damage dealt. (30 MP)
Flying Snake Fang: 188 physical, ITE, hits all enemies on a 1-2 line. 30% chance of Poison. (90 MP)
Shinobi Affection: Heals 999 HP and grants +30 def for 3 rounds, 1-2 range (not self) (200 MP)

Area Cure: Removes all negative status effects, all allies within 4 range and self (117 MP)
Holy Word: 67 holy magic, all enemies within 4 range (198 MP)
Heal: 207 healing, 0-3 range (65 MP)
Area Heal: 138 healing, all allies within 2 range and self (147 MP)
Halo: Next attack always hits and grants boosted exp, 0-4 range (88 MP)

Critical Rate Up A - Increases chances of landing critical hits by 20% (to 30%)

Comments: Rather obviously the worst dueller of the rulers, Talia's offence is unremarkable 3HKO and her durability is only mildly above average. She really wishes Shinobi Affection could self-target; as is her healing restores under a third of her HP and will struggle to win fights outside Light. A bit reminiscent of SH2 Karin.

Tim - L27 Grand Kaiser (BBB)

HP 725 (1.12)
MP 394
Str 101 -> Atk 151
Def 115 (1.12 pdur)
Int 114 (26% status res, 1.29 mdur)
Agi 97 (27% eva)
Mobility 5, Magic pool 359, Command range 5

*Kaiser Slash: 184 physical, 105% acc
Reigning Demon Blade: 162 physical, 85% acc, 1-2 range. 20% chance of Paralyze
*Imperial Benevolence: 274 physical, 105% acc (100 MP)
Mark of Domination: Inflicts -30 Atk, -30 Def, -20 Agi, and -50 Int, all for 3 rounds, 1-3 range [pdur becomes 1.39, mdur becomes 1.8] (230 MP)

Assemble: Moves an allied unit from caster's troop adjacent to the caster (20 MP)
Curse: 203 dark magic, 1-2 range [248 after MoD] (108 MP)
Necro Rebirth: Revives a monster killed in the current battle for the rest of the battle as a zombie (97 MP)
Dimension: 59% chance to send target to a random location on the battlefield, 1-4 range (83 MP)
Venom: 86 dark magic, 1-3 range. 20% chance of Poison (45 MP)
Gravity: -20 Agi and removes flying typing for 3 rounds, 1-4 range (56 MP)

Evasion Up A - Increases Evasion by 20%. (factored in)

Comments: Tim is the only ruler without a Brigandine, which makes him less durable and more status-vulnerable than the rest. To make up for it, he hits really hard, with game-best damage. Mark of Domination is also nice; while it leaves him with only one use of his best damage, the durability/evasion push may make it worth it against some opponents.


Special thanks to Super whose expertise was invaluable to the creation of this stat topic, and who also did a large amount of testing and data gathering. Thanks also to Lasci whose Brigandine 2 stat tracker spreadsheet is what I used as the base to adapt for the stat topic.

4

Discussion / Elf writes way too much about FE3H characters (unit rating topic)

« on: November 20, 2020, 06:25:47 AM »

I wrote these for a ratings thread on Serenes Forest and figured that why not, there's a bunch of 3H fans here too who might appreciate my propensity for spilling many words about FE3H gameplay.


Assumptions for the thread:

-Characters are rated assuming Maddening difficulty, no NG+, no DLC, no imported data or other prizes. (DLC will obviously be considered for characters who require it, though in their cases only they will be compared with the assumption that other characters have access to the DLC classes as well.) For what it's worth I think the ratings are roughly similar on Hard too, the biggest difference IMO being that doubling is easier on Hard so mid-range speed characters look a bit better.

-I assume the player doesn't do any mega hardcore turtle strats, but certainly not a low-turn run either.

-Characters are rated based off of a good build for them. It doesn't matter whether Dimitri or Dedue is a better mage when neither is touching magic anyway.

-No grinding (including but not limited to: optional battles EXCEPT paralogues and quests, excessive fishing, extra arena use, drawing out a fight needlessly using enemy regen or broken weapons, etc.). Minimal stat booster use.

-Conversely, I assume the player completes a majority of paralogues (certainly including all the really important ones, such as Lorenz's) and completes most quests. Unique rewards will generally not be assumed to go to any one character, but the possibility of having them affects the ranking (e.g. all mages are considered to possibly have Caduceus or Thyrsus, and lance-users are considered to possibly have Luin or Lance of Ruin, etc.)

-Every unit's numeric score is based on their best route, should they be available on more than one. Usually this is the route with their earliest availability and/or highest number of available supports.

-I'll be adopting a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is the worst and 10 is the best, in this particular game. It should be noted before I start that FE3H is a better-balanced game than many: a 1/10 in this game is certainly not as bad as Sophia in Binding Blade, let alone Jogurt in Shining Force. The average score will be somewhere between 5 and 6.

-In addition to a score, I'm also providing my personal recommendation of whether to use the character, for each route they're available: Yes, Maybe, or No.


Some general talk about builds:

For physical characters, they are generally rated based on the following builds, in order of importance:

1. Fliers. Fliers are the most powerful physical class set in 3H, due to Canto, high mobility, and shockingly high stats (strength, speed, and avoid in particular), with Dismount as an option to remove normal flying weaknesses.
2. Archers. Bows are a powerful weapon due to their ranged options: 2 at base, +1 from Curved Shot, +1 from Archer/Sniper, +2 from Sniper with Hunter's Volley, +2 from Bow Knight. This gives them unparalleled linked attack potential among physical classes. Sniper additionally has an innate 4-range 2-hit combat art, while Bow Knight has 8 move and canto.
3. Other classes. Of note: paladin is useful for characters with lance-specific arts due to Lancefaire (but is outclassed by fliers otherwise), assassin has a high speed modifier and Stealth (but significantly lower damage/mobility than fliers), grapplers have a 3-hit combat art (which generally does similar damage to a wyvern lord's brave axe while being way less mobile, but cheaper?).

The point is that obviously it's better to be a "good wyvern" than a "good assassin", because the former simply performs significantly better. If, however, a character has advantages that make them perform better at other roles, they will be mentioned, just not rated as highly.

For magic users, their classes are generally more balanced, so I won't speak of specific classes there very often. Instead I'll focus on their available spells and magical combat arts.

Some things I'll be discussing often during character ratings:
1. Stats. Obviously these matter. Strength/Magic, and Speed are very important. Defence and Charm are also notable, but less so. Large differences in HP and Res are also notable, but less so still. Luck will be mentioned occasionally, Dex almost never.
2. Talent list. Axes and flying get you to wyvern. Armour gets you Weight-3 and armour certifications for defence (with axes). Bows get you bow classes (and Curved Shot is neat). Lances help get you to all mounted classes (and most people want to get to D early, because Tempest Lance rocks). Reason and Faith are crucial for magic users, both for their classes and unlocking spells. Authority matters for everyone. It's important to note off the top that getting to Intermediate classes is quite easy even in things which are banes, so I won't be saying much "axe boon = easier Death Blow". Conversely, though, boons matter a lot for Advanced classes with A requirements, such as Warlock and Sniper.
3. Personal skill. Most of them aren't too notable, but if it is, I'll mention it.
4. Unique combat arts, either innately learned or accessed through a personal relic. Many don't matter too much, but some (e.g. Swift Strikes, Point-Blank Volley, Vengeance, Raging Storm) are quite significant. Note that the relics themselves are NOT considered in a character's rating; everyone can use those.
5. (magic users only) Spell list. Obviously super important.
6. Joining time. It's much better to join earlier in FE3H, because nobody gains class masteries before they join, and many class masteries (repositioning arts from Beginner tier, Death/Darting/Fiendish Blow in Intermediate tier) are a big deal! Also, characters can't start active tutoring until after they join. The effects of this will be noted in characters' individual entries.

I'll also mention other things like support list, crest, etc., on the rare times I deem them important enough to bring up.


Discussion and debate is welcome! I'm constantly updating my feelings on this game and its cast.


Byleth

Byleth is good, but not as good as the lords.

The good: Byleth gains exp at an enhanced rate, so their stats are better than they look on paper. Even past that, 13+45% str is great, and with a +2 from his/her personal post-timeskip, the stat ends up behind only Edelgard and Dimitri. The charm is also great; while 7+45% is only above average on paper, it ends up really high in practice due to tea times (though the start isn't special). The rest of the stats have no standouts, but nothing bad either. Of most note, 8+45% speed is respectable, comparable to Hilda or Ignatz once you account for the level boost (though that's a range that definitely wants Darting Blow to secure doubles, giving FByleth a notable advantage).

The Sword of the Creator is decent, if not the game-changer the plot suggests it should be. The base weapon is a slightly modified Iron Bow+ until it upgrades (at which point it becomes a slightly better Silver Bow+), but can't benefit from Bow Range+ or Curved Shot. The best thing about it is its combat art, which lets Byleth deal solid damage at range 2 (25+Mag*0.3 after chapter 10), but it's not actually THAT much stronger than, say, Heavy Draw, and is comparable to Fallen Star but with less range and without the cool effect. Being a sword also kinda sucks with how underwhelming sword classes are in this game (outside of Sword Avoid, which Byleth can't get).

Authority boon is always nice, and the combination of that and high charm allows Byleth to wield any battalion/gambit you want with ease. Byleth also supports everyone in the game (except Anna), which means more opportunities for linked attacks.

The less good: The talent list is underwhelming: swords are the least useful weapon class in the game, faith is mostly wasted given Byleth's terrible faith list and physical focus, brawling's pretty niche as well (and nearly useless for FByleth without DLC). Overall, it's a talent list that does not help Byleth get into the best physical builds in the game, which involve flight or bow use. Ruptured/Sublime Heaven is nice but not as decisive as some other combat arts, and the only other noteworthy one on Byleth's unique list is Windsweep, a handy tool for bosses but requires heavy investments in swords (A).

Also, Byleth's method of training is a major problem. Every other character has two avenues of skill exp that Byleth does not: passive instruction and active tutoring. The former is worth 40 weapon exp (for neutral) per week, the latter a number which can vary anywhere from 16-80 depending on RNG luck, statue bonuses, and professor expertise (even higher with sauna DLC). Even assuming towards the low end of that, Byleth needs 3 to 4 faculty training sessions a week to keep up, and this isn't remotely practical early in the game, where doing so adversely affects professor rank, motivation, support building, and recruitment. To make matters worse it's not even possible in chapter 2, so other in-house characters get a significant head start on skills (e.g. it's possible to give Tempest Lance to any lance-neutral character by Chapter 2... except Byleth). Later in the game, doing 3-4 (or even more) faculty trains a week becomes practical, so Byleth does eventually catch up, although certain areas such as Riding and Flying A+ may be difficult to reach due to a lack of instructors, unless someone else on your team gets there first to help out. But it's definitely a major depressing effect on skills you might want to grab early in the game, like Close Counter or Weight-3.

Compared to the lords: I've sometimes seen people claim Byleth is better than some or even all of the lords; I disagree. Byleth's a very easy comparison to Edelgard, since they have nearly identical bases. And Edelgard ties or wins almost every facet of the comparison: bases (similar, but +3 charm and some HP beats out some dex/luck/res, the three worst stats), growths (+10% str > +5% spd), talent list (axes + armour is much better than brawling), and relic (you get it later, but Raging Storm is a game-changer). And that's before considering her head start on skills. Byleth's comparisons to the other lords are less obvious, but I feel the other lords come out ahead too... but I'll talk about their unique perks in their own writeups.

Overall, Byleth is actually pretty easy to rank. The clearly superior stats to the non-lords cause me to rate Byleth above them, but the lords all roughly match Byleth's stats while having better unique tricks of their own, and without the training flaw. As such, Byleth ends up in between them. Spoiler alert, the lowest lord is 9/10, and the highest non-lord student is 8/10. As such!

Byleth's rating: 8.5/10
Use him/her?: Yes (s/he's a forced deployment making it moot, but the answer would be Yes even were this not the case)

5

Unranked Games / Fire Emblem: Three Houses

« on: September 15, 2019, 07:14:10 AM »

Fire Emblem: Three Houses is yet another Fire Emblem game. It's great, play it.

Links

Most stuff used to build this stat thread can be found on Serenes Forest.

The spreadsheet used to calculate stats is found here.

Mechanical notes

There is no weapon triangle, although there are skills which mimic its role (e.g. sword-users learn the Axebreaker skill).

Stats

HP: Insert joke here.
Str: Adds to physical damage
Mag: Adds to magical damage
Dex: Adds to accuracy and crit rate
Spd: Allows followup attacks, prevents enemy followup attacks, and affects evade
Luck: Adds to magic accuracy and crit rate, and is also critical evade
Def: Subtracts from physical damage
Res: Subtracts from magical damage
Cha: Affects accuracy and damage of Gambits both used by and used against the character.

Formulas

Damage = (Str or Mag) + (Weapon Might) - (Target's Def or Res)

Attack Speed (AS) = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Str/5).
The weight/str part of the formula can not raise AS above Speed.
If your AS exceeds your opponent's by 4, you make a followup attack after their counterattack, if any.

Hit (physical) = Dex + (Weapon Accuracy)
Hit (magical) = (Dex + Luck)/2 + (Magic accuracy)
Evade (physical) = AS
Evade (magical) = (Speed + Luck)/2
Accuracy = Hit - Evade. The game almost certainly uses some sort of dual RN system so numbers close to 0/100 are more reliable than they appear.

Crit = (Dex + Lck) / 2
Crit Avo = Luck
Critical rate = Crit - Crit Avo. Almost certainly single RN as always.

The game has a set of skills, the Prowess skills, which add to Hit, Avo, and Crit Avo. If you don’t equip one for the weapon class you’re using, you’re gonna have a bad time (in particular, most enemies will have a non-zero critical rate against you).

There are no status staves in this game. There is one pure status move, Silence, which is tends to be at or near 100% accuracy. There are also gambit attacks, however, and you might see them as a sort of status move since they all inflict a status (rattle, which is Don't Move + a stat penalty) and don't make a normal evade check, instead checking Charm. Gambits are also notable for being AOE and thus avoiding counters. Your milage may vary as to what you see Charm covering; it's an important stat in-game.

Gambit accuracy = (Gambit base hit, usually 50%) + (Attacker Cha - Target Cha) * 5%
The Cha difference is capped at +6 and -6.

Skill ranks

Replacing the weapon ranks of this game, there are skill ranks for the five physical weapon types in this game, along with Reason (black magic) and Faith (white magic). There are also skill levels for heavy armour, riding, flying, and authority. Levelling up skill ranks can be done between battles, and also occurs naturally in battles depending on the weapon used and current class of the character. Raising skill ranks has the following effects:
-Allows the character to use higher-rank weapons like steel, silver, brave
-Causes the character to learn new abilities, in particular the "prowess" line of abilities which raise a character's stats while using a certain weapon.
-For Reason/Faith, causes the character to learn new magic
-Skill ranks are needed as prerequisites for unlocking certain classes (e.g. becoming a Paladin requires Lance and Riding rank).

In this stat topic, the Prowess abilities are taken as Level 5 (unlocked at A+). At that level, their stat bonuses are as follows (they will always be factored in during the actual stat topic):
Sword, Gauntlet, White Magic: +10 Hit, +20 Avo, +10 Crit Avo
Lance, Bow: +15 Hit, +15 Avo, +10 Crit Avo
Axe, Black/Dark Magic: +20 Hit, +10 Avo, +10 Crit Avo

Classes

Like in many other FEs, you need an item to unlock a new class, and there is a level requirement (and in this game, a skill rank requirement). Unlike many FEs, characters can freely switch between unlocked classes between fights. Changing classes does not reset a character's level.

If a character battles for long enough in a class, they will eventually gain enough class exp to master it, which results in a character gaining a class mastery ability which can be equipped just like any other ability (see below).

Abilities

Abilities were called skills in past games; they passively affect a unit's combat performance. They are gained from mastering classes and from levelling up skill ranks. Each character can equip up to five abilities. Additionally, many classes have up to three class abilities which do not count toward this limit; the character will automatically benefit from those abilities while they are in that class. Abilities with the same name do not stack (e.g. it's possible to get Fiendish Blow as a class ability and as class mastery ability, but the game will not let you set both).

Weapon durability and magic

Weapons have durability; each time they hit a target, their number of remaining uses drop by one. Weapons can be repaired between battles, for a cost.

Legendary weapons often require relatively rare materials (as well as more money than normal) to repair, so you might wish to limit their use in individual DL matches. I encourage people to play the game and draw their own conclusions.

Magic works slightly differently; every spell has a fixed number of uses per fight (hit or miss, in the case of attack magic). There is no way to restore these uses within a fight, but they are automatically restored between fights.

Combat Arts

Combat arts are weapon-based techniques which characters can use as an action in place of a regular attack. Combat arts frequently have a bonus to Attack or Hit as compared to a regular attack, and may have other effects besides, but they cost additional weapon durability, whether the combat art hits or misses.

Combat arts can not be used on the enemy phase (i.e. as counterattacks), and can not make followup attacks. Combat arts made with weapons which have the "strike twice" effect (i.e. brave weapons and gauntlets) will not strike twice, unless the combat art in question also has the "strikes twice" effect.

Because legendary weapon durability is limited, combat arts making use of legendary weapons will not be considered in the averages, and I would generally recommend allowing only limited use of them in the DL (one per battle, maaaybe two if you're generous).

Battalions

Characters can equip battalions, which have an effect on their stats and allow them to use a Gambit Attack (which is typically either OPB or 2PB). Gambit Attacks can have various effects, but most commonly are uncounterable attacks which use the user’s and target’s Cha stats to determine their accuracy which inflict the Rattle status (slight debuff and move=0 for one turn).

They are not considered in the stat topic currently because of questionable flavour for a duel and due to difficulties in deciding who would get what battalion.

Crests

Crests are bloodline-based powers which are important to the game's setting. In gameplay, they manifest similarly to abilities, typically having a certain % chance to have some extra effect kick in during attacks of certain types made by the character. These abilities are tied to the character and can not be removed. If a crest says it raises Mt (might), the bonus is always +5.


Assumptions

-All characters are taken on the route where they are most available (which for the students is their own "house").
-Although not all routes have the same endgame level, all characters are taken at Level 41, which is a rough average of the recommended endgame levels (and results in rounder numbers due to each PC gaining 40 levels, as the base level of all PCs is internally Level 1). The exceptions are the lord characters, who each have a "gains 1.2x exp" ability, and are given 2 extra levels to reflect this.
-Characters can train only in skill ranks which are their "strength", which preserves character uniqueness better. Characters may also train in whichever skill rank has their "budding talent" strength (as such skill ranks always transform into strengths once the budding talent is unlocked). This also limits the classes available to each character.
-An exception is made for classes which have three skill rank requirements. If a character meets the higher two skill rank requirements, they are assumed to qualify for the class. For instance, Wyvern Lord requires A Flying, A Axe, and C Lance, so Petra, who has strength in Axe and Flying, is assumed to qualify for Wyvern Lord, while Hilda, who has strength in Lance and Axe, is not.
-Characters are taken at A+ in their most relevant skill ranks, except Armour, since no character with the Armour skill wants to level it in battle. (They are assumed to level it high enough to reach C, since that's where the relevant ability Weight-3 is learned.) In theory characters with more skills probably shouldn't be able to have all of them at A+ but the distinction generally doesn't matter much.
-In general, characters are assumed to class change at levels 5, 11, 21, and 31, and can master one class at each tier except for the final "master" tier. Characters who join after Chapter 1 are only assumed to master three classes. Characters who join after Chapter 10 are assumed to master two classes. I had everyone master Commoner/Noble for HP+5 since it's universally useful and preserves the "true" HP curve, then made judgement calls from there.
-Assumed enemy stats are largely taken from Crimson Flower Endgame and the last two maps of Azure Moon (except Def/Res in the case of Azure Moon Endgame which is far more mage-heavy than most maps): 28 Def, 22 Res, 110 Hit, 30 Avo, 20 Crit Avo. For calculating physical and magical durability, 50% damage to average defences is assumed (roughly true in-game). As usual I suggest disrespecting this in the most extreme cases (i.e. Gilbert) as enemy Atk gets as high as 70+ (2HKO even the tankiest PCs).
-Equipment is permitted if it is storebought or forged from storebought. Additionally, characters are assumed access to legendary weapons with compatible crests, since only that character can use the Combat Art. A few more borderline cases to consider:
--Hubert's Arrow of Indra is a reward from his paralogue, and he is the only high-magic character with lance access on his route.
--Felix's Sword of Moralta is given to Byleth by his father and has boosted regen if used by someone with his crest. (30% for him, 10% for anyone else.)
--Claude's Sword of Begalta is a reward from his paralogue and has boosted regen if used by someone with his crest.
--Seteth's Spear of Assal is a reward from his paralogue and has boosted regen if used by someone with his crest (him or Ferdinand).
--Flayn's Caduceus is a reward from her paralogue and has boosted regen if used by someone with her crest (her or Linhardt).
-I have not considered universal combat arts (that is, the ones everyone gets for reaching certain weapon ranks). I don't think I allow them. If you do, the most DL-important one is probably Healing Focus, which is a move unlocked by raising Fist rank, which would be usable by Byleth, Caspar, Dedue, Felix, Raphael, Catherine, and Alois.


Equipment

Physical weapons listed here are all forged from storeboughts. They can be repaired between fights for a cost.

SWORDS
Training Sword+: 3 mt, 100 hit, 2 wt, 65 uses
Iron Sword+: 6 mt, 100 hit, 5 wt, 45 uses
Silver Sword+: 13 mt, 90 hit, 8 wt, 40 uses
Killing Edge+: 8 mt, 85 hit, 35 crit, 10 wt, 25 uses
Brave Sword+: 10 mt, 85 hit, 12 wt, 40 uses. 2 hits when user initiates combat.
Levin Sword+: 9 mt, 70 hit, 9 wt, 30 uses. 1-3 range. Deals magic damage.

LANCES
Training Lance+: 4 mt, 90 hit, 3 wt, 65 uses
Iron Lance+: 7 mt, 90 hit, 6 wt, 35 uses
Silver Lance+: 14 mt, 80 hit, 9 wt, 35 uses
Killer Lance+: 10 mt, 80 hit, 35 crit, 11 wt, 25 uses
Brave Lance+: 11 mt, 80 hit, 13 wt, 35 uses. 2 hits when user initiates combat.
Javelin+: 3 mt, 80 hit, 8 wt, 40 uses. 1-2 range.
Short Spear+: 6 mt, 75 hit, 10 wt, 35 uses. 1-2 range.

AXES
Training Axe+: 6 mt, 80 hit, 4 wt, 65 uses
Iron Axe+: 9 mt, 80 hit, 7 wt, 50 uses
Silver Axe+: 17 mt, 70 hit, 10 wt, 40 uses
Brave Axe+: 13 mt, 70 hit, 14 wt, 40 uses. 2 hits when user initiates combat.
Hand Axe+: 5 mt, 70 hit, 10 wt, 40 uses. 1-2 range.
Short Axe+: 9 mt, 65 hit, 12 wt, 35 uses. 1-2 range.

BOWS (all bows have 3x mt against fliers, and have 2 range unless noted)
Training Bow+: 3 mt, 90 hit, 3 wt, 65 uses
Iron Bow+: 7 mt, 95 hit, 5 wt, 45 uses
Longbow+: 11 mt, 70 hit, 13 wt, 25 uses. 2-3 range.
Silver Bow+: 13 mt, 75 hit, 8 wt, 40 uses
Brave Bow+: 11 mt, 80 hit, 12 wt, 40 uses. 2 hits when user initiates combat.

GAUNTLETS (all gauntlets have 5 crit unless noted, 2 hits when user initiates combat, and can not be used while mounted)
Training Gauntlets+: 0 mt, 100 hit, 1 wt, 90 uses
Iron Gauntlets+: 1 mt, 95 hit, 3 wt, 60 uses
Silver Gauntlets+: 4 mt, 90 hit, 7 wt, 55 uses

Black/Dark/White magic is always tied to a character; see the individual character entries for which spells they have. The uses are refreshed in each battle automatically, but can not be restored mid-fight. Some classes have abilities which double their number of magic uses compared to the figures listed here.

All magic has 1-2 range, unless noted.

BLACK MAGIC
Fire: 3 mt, 90 hit, 3 wt, 10 uses
Bolganone: 8 mt, 85 hit, 6 wt, 5 uses
Ragnarok: 15 mt, 80 hit, 5 crit, 9 wt, 3 uses
Thunder: 4 mt, 80 hit, 5 crit, 4 wt, 8 uses
Thoron: 9 mt, 75 hit, 10 crit, 7 wt, 4 uses. 1-3 range.
Bolting: 12 mt, 65 hit, 15 crit, 18 wt, 2 uses. 3-10 range, can't double.
Wind: 2 mt, 100 hit, 10 crit, 2 wt, 12 uses
Cutting Gale: 7 mt, 95 hit, 10 crit, 5 wt, 6 uses
Excalibur: 11 mt, 100 hit, 15 crit, 8 wt, 4 uses. +22 dmg vs fliers.
Blizzard: 3 mt, 70 hit, 15 crit, 4 wt, 10 uses
Fimbulvetr: 12 mt, 65 hit, 25 crit, 10 wt, 3 uses
Sagittae: 7 mt, 90 hit, 5 crit, 6 wt, 10 uses
Meteor: 10 mt, 80 hit, 19 wt, 1 uses. 3-10 range, can't double, hits an AoE.
Agnea's Arrow: 16 mt, 70 hit, 5 crit, 13 wt, 2 uses

DARK MAGIC
Miasma: 5 mt, 80 hit, 5 wt, 10 uses
Mire: 3 mt, 70 hit, 5 wt, 8 uses. 1-3 range. Inflicts Def-5 for one turn.
Swarm: 4 mt, 70 hit, 4 wt, 8 uses. Inflicts Spd-5 for one turn.
Banshee: 9 mt, 75 hit, 5 crit, 9 wt, 5 uses. Inflicts Move-5 for one turn.
Death: 6 mt, 70 hit, 20 crit, 8 wt, 4 uses. 1-3 range.
Luna: 1 mt, 65 hit, 7 wt, 2 uses. Treats target's Res as 0, can't double.
Dark Spikes: 13 mt, 80 hit, 11 wt, 3 uses. +26 dmg vs cavalry.
Hades: 18 mt, 65 hit, 10 crit, 16 wt, 2 uses

WHITE MAGIC
Nosferatu: 1 mt, 80 hit, 8 wt, 12 uses. Restores HP equal to 50% of damage dealt.
Seraphim: 8 mt, 75 hit, 5 crit, 10 wt, 8 uses. +16 dmg vs monsters.
Aura: 12 mt, 70 hit, 20 crit, 12 wt, 3 uses
Abraxas: 14 mt, 90 hit, 4 crit, 13 wt, 2 uses

There are also white magic spells which heal allies (Heal, Recover, Physic, Fortify), heal status (Restore), buff Res by 7 (Ward), inflict 100% one-turn silence (Silence), or can reposition allies (Rescue, Warp).


Note about reading these entries

When multiple weapons are listed, I will only list stats which change from the default. (For instance, if the first weapon's line mentions 9 Crit, and the second weapon's line has no mention of Crit, then that weapon also has 9 Crit. Weapons usually share crit rates, and may share other stats).

Legendary weapons are marked with multiple asterisks. Remember, you might wish to put a limit on their number of uses.

To save space, combat arts will only be listed (a) after silver weapons, and (b) after a legendary weapon to which they are unique. Non-legendary combat arts can be used with any weapon, though, with the appropriate stat changes from silver. Remember that combat arts can not double, so a character's AS while using one is only relevant for their counterattacks and their enemy's doubles. Assume all combat art stats are the same as those of the weapon using them, except where noted.

Units with Death Blow or Fiendish Blow, or who use Brave weapons, can do more damage on the player phase than enemy phase. This extra damage will always be listed as "2x" or "+6". Keep in mind that you should factor this in on the player phase, but NOT the enemy phase.

The Hit listed here is the displayed hit against an assumed enemy. Remember that true hit is closer to 100% than this; I use displayed hit just because it's much easier to adjust for different weapons. So please keep in mind that actual hit is always closer to 100% than what is listed here.

On the other hand I'll assume the 2RN formula for avoid and show the true avoid, because that doesn't vary too much. PCs can adjust it slightly by changing their equipped weapon (= AS) but it's not a big deal, you can estimate it if necessary.

I've listed characters with an assumed default set of abilities, but they can sub in alternates if need be. Note that any listed weapons/magic will assume the Prowess skill is set (even if it's not on their default set), since PCs have no business using weapons/magic without a Prowess skill. Subtract 10-20 Hit, 10-20 Avo, and 15 Crit Avo if they go without one of these.

To avoid relentlessly spamming their descriptions, I will note the breaker skills here: they grant +20 Hit and +20 Avo against the appropriate weapon type, but only if the weapon which beats them on the weapon triangle is equipped. The weapon triangle is:
Sword > Axe > Lance > Sword

6

Discussion / RPG line counts

« on: May 06, 2019, 02:54:12 AM »

XF was just the beginning. The beginning of my madness.

In part 2 of data nerding about RPG writing, we tackle one of the RPG series with the highest-regarded writing, Suikoden. I'm aiming to cover all of Suikoden 1-5 here; those who know me know that I'm mostly doing this for S2/S3/S5, but S1 and S4 are gonna come along for the ride. Plus it's been 14 years and I've still never got 108 stars in Suikoden 4, maybe this run will finally fix that.

Some notes:
-We're going in series order, rather than chronological.
-Each separate textbox counts as a line. Textboxes in this game are pretty variable, but 1 to 40 words is typical.
-Textboxes that don't contain any letters don't count.
-Dialog choices of the silent main count towards Tir's (etc.) line count. In general I'll try to roleplay a bit and choose what I think are canon choices; different choices will of course change the exact line count slightly.
-Required dialog of nameless characters is noted as "other". Optional dialog of nameless characters (townsfolk etc.) is not included, but optional dialog from named characters IS included. I'll grab what optional dialog I find, but I'm not going to go highly out of my way to do it, and in general I won't grab things that feel non-canon. Some of the specifics will be slightly arbitrary, but obviously it shouldn't make a big difference.

Unlike XF, the Suikoden games don't have clear dividing points, so I'll be making my own, complete with titles. I'll indicate where each chapter ends. At least I'm first I'm generally aiming for groups of 200-300 lines.

(1) The Magician's Isle
(end: Gregminster, taking leave of Futch)

1. Ted - 33
2. Teo McDohl - 31
3. Gremio - 27
4. Leknaat - 25
5. Pahn - 22
6. Futch - 20
7. Kraze - 19
8. Cleo - 18
9. Barbarosa - 12
10. Luc - 11
11. Tir McDohl - 5
Milich Oppenheimer - 4
Kasim Hazil - 3
Sonya Shulen - 3
Marie - 2
Windy - 2
Other - 6

Total: 243 lines

(2) The Soul Eater
(end: Gregminster, taking leave of Ted)

1. Ted - 53
2. Kanaan - 50
3. Gremio - 36
4. Cleo - 30
5. Pahn - 28
6. Kraze - 23
7. Grady - 19
8. Varkas - 9
9. Tir McDohl - 8
10. Windy - 6
Sydonia - 2
Marco - 1
Other - 7

Total: 272 lines

(3) The Liberation Army
(end: Rockland, departure of Varkas and Sydonia)

1. Viktor - 51
2. Gremio - 46
3. Cleo - 29
4. Odessa Silverberg - 20
5. Varkas - 10
6. Flik - 9
7. Marie - 8
8. Tir McDohl - 7
Grady - 4
Krin - 4
Sydonia - 4
Sanchez - 2
Other - 31

Total: 225 lines

(4) Odessa
(end: leaving Lenankamp after unlocking the Soul Eater's L1)

1. Odessa Silverberg - 85
2. Ledon - 27
3. Viktor - 23
4. Gremio - 22
5. Cleo - 15
6. Kessler - 12
7. Tir McDohl - 7
8. Flik - 6
9. Sanchez - 5
Kage - 4
Other - 2

Total: 208 lines

Total lines so far

1. Gremio - 131 (13.8%)
2. Odessa Silverberg - 105 (11.1%)
3. Cleo - 92 (9.7%)
4. Ted - 86 (9.1%)
5. Viktor - 74 (7.8%)
6. Pahn - 50 (5.3%)
7. Kanaan - 50 (5.3%)
8. Other - 46 (4.9%)
9. Kraze - 42 (4.4%)
10. Teo McDohl - 31 (3.3%)
11. Tir McDohl - 27 (2.8%)
12. Ledon - 27 (2.8%)
13. Leknaat - 25 (2.6%)
14. Grady - 23 (2.4%)
15. Futch - 20 (2.1%)
16. Varkas - 19 (2.0%)
Flik - 15 (1.6%)
Barbarosa - 12 (1.3%)
Kessler - 12 (1.3%)
Luc - 11 (1.2%)
Marie - 10 (1.1%)
Windy - 8 (0.8%)
Sanchez - 7 (0.7%)
Sydonia - 6 (0.6%)
Milich Oppenheimer - 4 (0.4%)
Krin - 4 (0.4%)
Kage - 4 (0.4%)
Kasim Hazil - 3 (0.3%)
Sonya Shulen - 3 (0.3%)
Marco - 1 (0.1%)

Grand total: 948 lines


I can't say I was expecting Odessa to be #2 at this point, but it makes sense; the writers want her death to make an impact (see also: Ted getting the most lines until he leaves) and also show that she's the leader of the Liberation Army in truth and not just name. My prediction at the start was that Gremio or Mathiu would finish with the most lines for Suikoden 1, though Viktor is possible. Ciato's official prediction is that Cleo is virtually guaranteed to be #4.

7

Unranked Games / Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle

« on: March 03, 2019, 05:08:41 AM »

The basics

Did you know you needed a crossover between Nintendo's flagship franchise and the physical embodiment of the Chaotic Neutral allignment, wrapped up in a package of tight strategy RPG gameplay? Neither did I, but here we are.

Gameplay is phase-based, similar to Fire Emblem or XCOM. Player phase first, then enemy phase. There are always three PCs in a fight, no exceptions that I'm aware of (you can't reduce your party size). No in-battle revival if a PC dies, though. Mario is forced and you must use at least one Rabbid.

Each PC can do three things in a turn: one move, one attack, and one technique. These actions may be taken in any order. In fact, the nine total actions available to the PCs can be taken in any order; you can interweave parts of your PCs' turns.

-Movement is more complicated than normal! For one, every character can move through one (or more) enemies within range before finishing their move; this in no way affects where they can move after (so a character with 8 move can in theory move 8 squares to move through an enemy then 16 squares in the exact opposite direction to end their move within 8 squares of where they started). They can also jump off allies to extend their move (more on this later) or move through pipes which end their current movement but give them a fixed amount of move upon leaving the pipe. For DL purposes, the "moving through enemies" (called dashing) is the relevant part. Dashing an enemy does damage to them and may add other effects, dependent on the character.

-Every PC has two options for their attack action; a main weapon and a secondary weapon; they can use one each turn. The main weapon can always be chosen, while the secondary weapon has a cooldown and can only be used once every 2 turns at most.

-Techniques are special moves which target either the PC using it and/or their teammates, and include things such as healing, buffs, and "hero sight", which allows the PC to take a reaction shot against a moving enemy during the enemy phase.

Accuracy in this game is normally 100%. If a target (PC or enemy, they use the same mechanic) is behind low cover (various waist-high blocks), accuracy is instead 50%. If behind high cover (full-size blocks), accuracy is instead 0%, though various types of cover can be destroyed with repeated attacks. Some enemies have portable cover; they can not be hit by attacks originating in the 180 degrees they are facing (portable cover is not active while the enemy is moving, which matters for reaction shots). Secondary weapons (except hammers) typically ignore cover in some form, and dashes, since movement-based damage, since it takes you briefly into the enemy's square, always does.

Assumptions

All characters are taken right before the final battle, using weaponry which is available at that point.

There is finite exp (orbs) available in the game, which is used to buy skills and stat upgrades... but there is enough to max out the DL-relevant abilities (e.g. skipping things like high ground bonus, pipe exit movement, increased radius on AoE support moves, etc.), so I'll just be taking everything at max. In-game you can respec your skills between fights, so it's extra reasonable to be generous here.

I generally assume that cover is not a thing in the DL and that characters can get in range to use their dash abilities.

I am allowing abilities which require the use of Team Jump, which in-game requires an ally. These moves are easy to use in-game and rather iconic to the characters that get them (without it, you'd deny Mario the ability to jump on enemies, obviously non-canon). I'll flag them in case you want to ban them. If you do, Peach loses her regen and Mario/Yoshi lose damage (in Yoshi's case, a lot of it).

Secondary weapons and reaction shots which ignore cover should probably be considered ITE. You could make that argument for dash as well but I dunno that I'm inclined to, since there should probably be SOME limitation on dash, which suffers from range limits compared to other options in-game. Use your own judgement here.

Notes

For weapons, the primary weapon is listed first. This is the weapon used for reaction shots (non-Rabbid characters) and the one without a cooldown.

A cooldown indicates the number of consecutive turns a weapon or technique can not be accessed after it is used once. So an ability with a 2-turn cooldown can be used on turn 1, then not again until 4 (disabled for turns 2 and 3). Every technique and secondary weapon operates on a separate cooldown.

All techniques have a one turn duration; they last until the start of the next player phase. So do all inflicted status effects.

Status effects work on mini-bosses, but not the major bosses. Major bosses are also untargetable by dashes and jumps (although I suspect Yoshi's Ground Pound might work... haven't tested). Note that all the major bosses are also giants (occupying a 3x3 square of panels instead of the normal 1), so your milage may vary on how often you hand out this immunity to other game's bosses.

All PCs have access to Cleansing Jump, which fully heals a single ally within move range of status as part of their move action. Could be useful in a team fight.

Movement-based actions do not trigger counters. Reaction shots do! (Using a reaction shot against a Smasher as it approaches you is a good way to die... if you don't kill it.)

Area of Effect damage (boomshots, all secondary weapons, Boom Dash, Ground Pound) typically deal less damage to targets not in the centre of the blast. For rockets, if they hit cover, the enemy hiding behind it takes said reduced damage. General rule of thumb is 20% reduction for targets who aren't the central target (or nearest thing to it in Ground Pound's case), increasing to 30% if the target is 3 or more squares away, but I haven't investigated all the possibilities. Boomshot damage instead falls off with distance from the attacker; -30% damage at range 4+, -50% (I think?) at 6+. Area of Effect damage NEVER distinguishes between friend and foe, though only the explosive weapons (rocket, grenaduck, and sentry) can damage their user.

Sentries are more complicated than other secondary weapons: they create a sentry which moves toward the target. The sentry will move as soon as it is created, and again at the start of subsequent player phases, until it reaches its target, upon which it self-destructs, dealing damage. The sentry can also be targeted by enemies (and killed if its HP reaches zero), and will draw enemy reaction shots, but is immune to status. They're kinda awesome.

List of status effects

All status effects last for the phase on which they are inflicted and the next one, except for forced movement which has an instantaneous effect only.

Forced movement (Push, Bounce, Burn): All of these cause the target to move when struck; burned targets run around randomly and can also light anyone they run into on fire (on either side), Push and Bounce just move the target away by land and air respectively. Push and Bounce can in some cases push the target out of the battlefield or into a pit, in which case they take 30 damage and reappear. All remove Honey when inflicted.

Honey: The target can not move (and therefore, can not dash or team jump). They are also unaffected by non-status techniques which would cause them to move such as Magnet Dance.
Ink: The target can not use weapon attacks. I would interpret this as sealing off any non-movement damage-dealing skills from other games.
Freeze: The target can not use techniques. I would interpret this as covering all non-damage-dealing skills from other games (including pure status attacks).
Stone: Honey/Ink/Freeze combined, essentially. The target can do nothing except be a punching bag. Overwrites any of Honey/Ink/Freeze when applied, and can be overwritten by any of them.

Vamp: The attack which inflicts this status heals the attacker for a % of damage dealt. Furthermore, any additional attacks against this target will heal the user of that attack by the same %. Overkill damage still counts for healing. By default, this draining is 50% of damage dealt, but Rabbid Luigi's dash uses its own percentage (when maxed, 100%). If Vamp is applied from two different sources, they stack additively, though I haven't tested if it can go beyond 100%.

Note that if any status which restricts or forces movement is inflicted in the middle of a character's movement (by a reaction shot), their movement ends immeidately and they can not move again that turn.


Mario

HP 385+130 (106%)
Move 7

Dash: 130 damage
Stomp Jump: Requires Team Jump. Jumps off an enemy's head, dealing 150 damage. Afterward, land anywhere within 6 panels of the enemy. Can not target the same enemy targeted by Dash.

Weapons
Carpe Die-em (Blaster): 194 damage (165-175 base, range 12, 60% chance of 210 damage + Bounce (triggers Hero Sight))
Peeper Reaper (Hammer): 317 damage (275-285 base, range 1, AoE 3, 60% chance of 342 damage + Bounce (triggers Hero Sight)). 1-turn cooldown.
*Mario also has a blaster and hammer which inflict Honey instead

Techniques
Hero Sight:  2-turn cooldown. The first enemy to move into/through Mario's sight range takes 2 hits of 130% damage from Mario's primary weapon.
M-Power: 1-turn cooldown. Mario and all nearby allies deal +70% damage with weapons this turn.

Comments: Mario is not content to be Mr. Average this time, he hits very hard, 2RKOing average even if he doesn't get off Hero Sight thanks to M-Power. Hero Sight can push his damage even further against melee opponents (I wouldn't hype the bounce too seriously since it's below 67%, but your milage may vary... it'll come up in a long fight), but he's well-set even without it.


Rabbid Peach

HP 385+70 (93%)
Move 8

Stylish Dash: 100 damage. Can target up to 4 enemies within range.

Weapons
Run for the Hills (Blaster): 194 damage (165-175 base, range 12, 60% chance of 210 damage + Honey)
Avalanche (Sentry): 261 damage (225-235 base, range 15, move 7, AoE 2, 300 HP, 50% chance of 282 damage + Honey). 1-turn cooldown.

Techniques
Shield: 1-turn cooldown. Reduces weapon damage received by 80% and dash damage received by 50% for one turn.
Heal: 2-turn cooldown. Heals Rabbid Peach and all nearby allies for 70% max HP.

Comments: When she's not spreading chaos and taking selfies of it, Rabbid Peach specializes in staying alive. The cooldowns limit it somewhat, but anyone who can't deal over ~32% of her health is screwed (and since she doesn't lose any offence to do this, you'll have to do considerably more to overpower her in a short fight; she's very hard to kill before turn 5, and that's if you outspeed her). No status protection whatsoever and only low 3HKO damage, though.


Rabbid Luigi

HP 350+80 (88%)
Move 8

Vamp Dash: 160 damage. Can target up to 2 enemies within range. Inflicts Vamp status immediately before dealing this damage; all damage dealt to the target also heals the attacker for 100% of damage dealt for 1 turn.

Weapons
Cactus Fracas (Bworb): 177 damage (140-150 base, range 12, 90% chance of 180 damage + Push)
Might of the Kite (Rocket): 135 damage (115-125 base, range 15, AoE 3, 50% chance of 150 damage + Push). 1-turn cooldown.
*Rabbid Luigi also has a bworb which inflicts 70% stone, but it does only 80-90 damage (crit for 113)

Techniques
Super Barrier: 1-turn cooldown. Reduces weapon damage received by 60% and dash damage received by 50% for one turn, and also blocks status effects.
Weaken: 1-turn cooldown. Reduces weapon damage of nearby enemies (range 9) by 70% for one turn.

Comments: Rabbid Peach may be annoying to kill in a duel, but Rabbid Luigi is almost impossible short of some seriously impressive offence. He can heal over three quarters of his health with Vamp Dash + attack every turn, and alternate Super Barrier and Weaken to cut off ~65% of his opponent's offence. That combo is pretty yikes. OHKO him, status him (but not on turns he uses Super Barrier...), immune draining, or prepare to have his hideous laughter engraved upon your soul.


Luigi

HP 220+70 (59%)
Move 9

Dash: 90 damage

Weapons
Bagsniper (Precision): 212 damage (185-195 base, range 16, 50% chance of 234 damage + Ink)
Road Reaper (Sentry): 272 damage (235-245 base, range 15, move 8, AoE 3, 300 HP, 60% chance of 294 damage + Ink). 1-turn cooldown.
*Luigi also has a precision and sentry which inflict Bounce (triggers Steely Stare) instead

Techniques
Steely Stare: 1-turn cooldown. The first enemy to move into/through Luigi's sight range takes 3 hits of 70% damage from Luigi's primary weapon.
Itchy Feet: 1-turn cooldown. +3 move for Luigi and nearby allies for one turn.

Comments: He's pretty bad against ranged opponents, since neither of his techniques are useful then and he's frail. Steely Stare hurts when it's relevant though (pushing him to 2RKO), and turn 2 ink should not be overlooked. A worse version of Mario, which I suppose is the usual fate of the green brother. In-game his big advantages are the huge range and sentries drawing enemy fire.


Rabbid Mario

HP 385+130 (106%)
Move 9

Boom Dash: 100 damage. Can target up to 3 enemies with range. AoE damage (radius 4).

Weapons
Sunflower Power (Boomshot): 272 damage (235-245 base, range 9, 60% chance of 294 damage + Stone)
Feel the Heat (Hammer): 300 damage (265-275 base, range 1, AoE 3, 50% chance of 330 damage + Stone). 1-turn cooldown.
*Rabbid Mario also has a boomshot and hammer which inflict Vamp instead

Techniques
Bodyguard: 1-turn cooldown. Reduces weapon damage received by 30% and dash damage received by 100% for one turn.
Magnet Dance: 1-turn cooldown. Nearby enemies (range 9) immediately move a few panels towards Rabbid Mario.

Comments: He has the most damaging weaponry (sharing the primary with Peach and the secondary with Mario), but his overall offence is compromised by not having any techniques or powerful move damage to help it, so he's another 3RKOer. Bodyguard helps a bit but not much; by far the worst shield-type technique of the rabbid PCs. Random stone helps a bit more. He's a short-range AoE king in-game, and Magnet Dance is pretty neat.


Peach

HP 445+220 (136%)
Move 7

Dash: 90 damage
Healing Jump: Requires Team Jump. Peach and all nearby allies recover 20% of max HP.

Weapons
Smackerel (Boomshot): 272 damage (235-245 base, range 9, 60% chance of 294 damage + Freeze)
Gobblegoose (Grenaduck): 149 damage (125-135 base, range 10, AoE 4, 60% chance of 162 damage + Burn (triggers Royal Gaze)). 1-turn cooldown.
*Peach also has a boomshot which inflicts Burn (triggers Royal Gaze)

Techniques
Royal Gaze: 1-turn cooldown. The first enemy to move into/through Peach's sight range takes 1 hit of 100% damage from Peach's primary weapon.
Protection: 1-turn cooldown. Applies the protection status to allies in range. A proportion of any damage those allies take until start of next turn is redirected to Peach instead. That proportion can be 30%, 40%, 60%, or 100% depending on how much this skill is upgraded.

Comments: Like Luigi, she has good offence if her enemy needs to move to hit her, but only so-so damage otherwise (less extreme in both cases due to more base damage but a weaker reaction shot). Unlike Luigi she is very tanky, and has good regeneration on top of that. Her defensive game doesn't compare with the Rabbids (except Rabbid Mario), but it can still get the job done, and her offence tends to be better.


Rabbid Yoshi

HP 350+130 (98%)
Move 9

Ultra Dash: 90 damage. Can target up to 5 enemies within range.

Weapons
Renegade (Rumblebang): 235 damage (135-265 base, range 12, 30% chance of 318 damage + Push)
Sir Crackers (Grenaduck): 149 damage (125-135 base, range 10, AoE 4, 60% chance of 162 damage + Stone). 1-turn cooldown.
*Rabbid Yoshi also has a rumblebang which inflicts 25% stone, but it does 10 less damage (12 less on a crit)

Techniques
Outer Shell: 1-turn cooldown. Fully nullifies damage from the first two successful attacks (dash and/or weapon) this turn. Multi-hit attacks only count as one attack, but a dash and weapon attack count separately.
Scaredy Rabbid: 1-turn cooldown. Nearby enemies (range 9) immediately move a few panels away form Rabbid Yoshi.

Comments: A lot will depend on respect for Scaredy Rabbid. If you see it letting him kite the next melee attack sent his way, well, the combination of that and Outer Shell makes him immune to those entirely. I doubt I give it much credit though. Without that, or against ranged opponents, he still nulls damage every other turn, which is cool. Status remains a problem as far the other rabbid stallstrats, and his offence is cast-worst albeit not by much.


Yoshi

HP 420+130 (113%)
Move 8

Dash: 90 damage
Ground Pound: Requires Team Jump. When Yoshi lands, deals 130 AoE damage to all targets within 5 range. This CAN damage the enemy hit by Dash.

Weapons
Crossfire Castle (Rumblebang): 257 damage (155-285 damage, range 11, 30% chance of 342 damage + Ink)
Blooper Shooter (Rocket): 155 damage (130-140 damage, range 15, AoE 4, 60% chance of 168 damage + Ink). 1-turn cooldown.
*Yoshi also has a rumblebang and rocket which inflict Freeze instead

Techniques
Egg Beater: 2-turn cooldown. The first enemy to move into/through Yoshi's sight range takes 1 attack of 150% damage from Yoshi's primary weapon.
Super Chance: 2-turn cooldown. Affects Yoshi and all allies in range. The first attack each PC takes this turn will have a 100% critical/status rate.

Comments: Good offence as he can target the same enemy with both his movement damage sources, and both his techniques help his damage (as usual, the reaction shot is probably only good against melee foes). He also gets reliable status out of Super Chance too; Ink or Freeze will typically buy him a turn to get the job done.


Averages

HP

Peach 665
Yoshi 550
Mario 515
Rabbid Mario 515
Rabbid Yoshi 480
Rabbid Peach 455
Rabbid Luigi 430
Luigi 290
Average: 487.5

Damage

TWO-TURN:

The format of the damage numbers is "movementx2 + turn 1 weapon damage + turn 2 weapon damage = total.

I've opted just to use everyone's average damage for this. Note that Yoshi and especially Rabbid Yoshi are using damage with unusually high variance which is a bad thing in-game, so if you wanted to disrespect their damage slightly, that'd be fair.

1. Yoshi: Super Chance Rumblebang + Rumblebang = 220x2 + 342 + 257 = 1039
2. Mario: M-Power Hammer + Blaster = 150x2 + 539 + 194 = 1033
(Mario without Team Jump = 993)
(Yoshi without Team Jump = 779)
3. Rabbid Mario: Hammer + Boomshot = 100x2 + 300 + 272 = 772
4. Peach: Boomshot + Boomshot = 90x2 + 272 + 272 = 724
5. Rabbid Luigi: Bworb + Bworb = 160x2 + 177 + 177 = 674
6. Luigi: Sentry + Precision = 90x2 + 272 + 212 = 664
7. Rabbid Peach: Sentry + Blaster = 100x2 + 261 + 194 = 655
8. Rabbid Yoshi: Rumblebang + Rumblebang = 90x2 + 235 + 235 = 650

Average: 776 / 2 = 388
Kill point: 970 (923 without Team Jump)

THREE-TURN:

Take all the above strategies and recycle turn 1 on turn 3, except Yoshi who recycles turn 2 instead (to his detriment)

1. Mario: 1722
(Mario without Team Jump: 1662)
2. Yoshi: 1516
3. Rabbid Mario: 1172
(Yoshi without Team Jump: 1126)
4. Peach: 1086
5. Luigi: 1026
6. Rabbid Peach: 1016
7. Rabbid Luigi: 1011
8. Rabbid Yoshi: 975

Average: 1190.5 / 3 = 397
Kill point: 992 (945 without Team Jump)

FOUR-TURN:

A 4-turn average would be equal to 2-turn, as turns 3-4 are the same as turns 1-2 for damage (just reversed in Yoshi's case).

Averaging these three averages gives a kill point of ~977.

8

Discussion / Wild Arms XF line counts

« on: May 14, 2018, 12:55:10 AM »

Inspired by someone on GameFAQs doing the same thing with Ace Attorney (a far bigger project), I've decided to collect line count data on games, because data collection is interesting! Or it is to me, anyway. And I figure if anywhere in the world was nerdy enough to have other people appreciate this, it would be here.

Anyway I chose Wild Arms XF because I'm replaying it anyway, and it's on the text-heavy side for an RPG. So, here we go. Lines by character, by chapter. Some clarifications:

-Each separate textbox counts as a line. Textboxes generally contain around 1 to 30 words.
-Textboxes that don't contain any letters don't count. XF often uses punctuation marks, along with a change of facial expression, to note a pause, surprise, confusion, etc.
-I'm not collecting narration and tutorial lines. (There aren't many of the former.)
-I am including Labyrinthia's battle reports in her line count, as they're required text and delivered in character, even though they're obviously somewhat a gameplay convenience. They're about ~10 lines per battle, so I can estimate a Labby line count free of those if anyone cares.
-I'm not collecting lines of characters in towns, because that's too many bit characters for me to track (plus I don't feel like religiously checking for when town dialog changes). Exception: if the lines belong to a major character. This doesn't happen often.

I'll refer to major characters by their full names, and minor characters by the names the game uses for them (it often includes their title, which helps with remembering who the hell they are).


Anyway, here we go!

Prologue

1. Clarissa Arwin - 35
2. Rupert Dandridge - 25
3. Felius Arwin - 14
4. Robed Man* - 6
5. Wyman - 2

Total: 82 lines

*This is the total line count of two characters named "Robed Man". One of them is Wyman, who is named only after you fight them.

Act 1-1

1. Clarissa Arwin - 58
2. Felius Arwin - 25
3. Merchant Olrof - 18
4. Martial Guardsman Braddock - 7
5. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 3
6. Martial Guard Corporal Glenn - 2
7. Other Martial Guards - 1

Total: 114 lines

Act 1-2

1. Clarissa Arwin - 50
2. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 31
3. Martial Guard Corporal Glenn - 11
4. Felius Arwin - 8
5. Martial Guardsman Braddock - 2

Total: 102 lines

Act 1-3

1. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 52
2. Clarissa Arwin - 47
3. Felius Arwin - 23
4. Innkeeper Ellen - 18
5. Martial Guardsman Hadley - 5

*It's worth noting that this is the first chapter so far to include a significant amount of narration, as the game relays Labyrinthia's explanation of the political events of Elesius that way, rather than in dialog.

Total: 145 lines

Act 1-4

1. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 60
2. Clarissa Arwin - 27
3. Felius Arwin - 10
3. Prison Warden Nanasato - 10
5. Levin Brenton - 9
6. Brandon - 8
7. Fellman - 7
8. Innkeeper Ellen - 5
8. Other Poliasha residents - 5
8. Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - 5
11. Tony - 1
11. Krelia - 1
11. Other Martial Guards - 1

*Ragnar's lines are an optional town cameo. Brandon, Fellman, and Krelia are minor Poliasha residents imprisoned by the Martial Guard. Also, notice the rare Tony speaking line! He growls. Grr.

Total: 149 lines

Act 1-5

1. Clarissa Arwin - 41
2. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 35
3. Innkeeper Ellen - 18
4. Charlton Blunt - 13
5. Reverend Mother Edna - 12
6. Felius Arwin - 8
6. Levin Brenton - 8
8. Krelia - 7
9. Rupert Dandridge - 5
9. Robed Man - 5
11. Brandon - 3
11. Fellman - 3

Total: 158 lines

Act 1-6

1. Clarissa Arwin - 19
2. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 16
3. Levin Brenton - 15
4. Reverend Mother Edna - 13
5. Charlton Blunt - 11
5. Eisen Brenton - 11
7. Felius Arwin - 8
8. Samille - 7
8. El Jackson - 7
8. Robed Man – 7

Total: 114 lines


Total lines so far

1. Clarissa Arwin - 277 (32.1%)
2. Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 197 (22.8%)
3. Felius Arwin - 96 (11.1%)
4. Innkeeper Ellen - 41 (4.7%)
5. Levin Brenton - 32 (3.7%)
6. Rupert Dandridge - 30 (3.5%)
7. Reverend Mother Edna - 25 (2.9%)
8. Charlton Blunt - 24 (2.8%)
9. Merchant Olrof - 18
10. Robed Men - 18
11. Martial Guard Corporal Glenn - 13
12. Eisen Brenton - 11
13. Brandon - 11
14. Prison Warden Nanasato - 10
15. Fellman - 10
16. Martial Guardsman Braddock - 9
17. Krelia - 8
18. Samille - 7
19. El Jackson - 7
20. Other Poliasha residents - 5
21. Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - 5
22. Martial Guardsman Hadley - 5
23. Wyman - 2
24. Other Martial Guards - 2
25. Tony - 1

Grand total: 867

9

Unranked Games / Fire Emblem Heroes

« on: March 13, 2017, 04:36:20 PM »

It's mobile Fire Emblem. Characters from this game (with rare exceptions) already exist in previous FE games, and generally speaking are more broadly rankable by their existing forms. But hey, there are a few original characters here, and people might like this as a reference besides. Enjoy.

Mechanics

Standard Fire Emblem mechanics are at work here; if you're attacked by someone from a range where you can attack them back, you will do so. If your speed is 5 or more above your opponent's, you will strike them twice (if you're attacking, they get their chance to counter first).

The biggest difference is that 1-2 range is gone; all attacks are now either melee (1 range) or ranged (2 range). Essentially, tomes and daggers behave the same way bows do in other games, countering only other ranged attacks. A few characters can still counter at either range (this is the property of either a special weapon or skill), but nobody can attack at either range.

The weapon triangle is back, and much more potent than normal. It's now organised primarily by colour, same as Fire Emblem Fates:

Red > Green > Blue > Red

Red includes all swords, blue includes all lances, and green includes all axes, so that part of the weapon triangle is familiar. Additionally, all tomes and dragon breath attacks count as a colour... though, which one is typically rather arbitrary. Generally, fire is red, lightning is blue, and wind is green, but this is not ironclad (Adult Tiki has Lightning Breath and is red), and light/dark appear in several places.

Bows, daggers, and staves are colourless and do not normally participate in the weapon triangle.

Notably, nobody (as of early March 2017) has access to multiple weapon classes in this game.

Characters can learn skills. They can switch weapons and skills (including unequipping skills) between fights, but not mid-battle.

Buffs and debuffs return! If multiple effects buff the same stat (or debuff the same stat), only the highest one has an effect. One debuff and one buff can be applied simultaneously to the same stat, and they stack additively as you'd expect. Generally speaking, most buff effects last for the phase on which they are applied and the following phase (but not the following turn, so notably dagger-users can't take advantage of their own defensive debuffs unless they counter).

Additionally, there are various stat changes which are active while certain conditions are met (any skill with Blow or Spur/Goad/Ward in the name, for instance). These are not considered buffs themselves and can stack with buffs.

Finally, there are "special" skills, which function like limits. All special skills have a charge counter (typically 2 to 5). Every time the character gives or receives a hit in battle (multitarget attacks don't count), this counter goes down by 1. Once it hits zero, the special skill will activate as soon as its conditions are met. After it does, it will reset to its original value, and will begin counting down again. Special skills typically either cause the character to deal or receive more damage than normal for one hit, though the effects vary.

Stats

HP - Lose these and you die.
ATK - Do more damage
SPD - If you have 5 more speed than your opponent, you can make a followup attack
DEF - Reduces physical damage
RES - Reduces magical damage
Move - How many squares you can move. For most units, this is 2. Cavalry can move 3, armored units can move 1. Fliers are 2.

Damage = ATK - DEF
Damage, tomes/dragonbreath* = ATK - RES
Damage, staves = (ATK - RES) / 2

*Yes, even dragons who did physical damage in their home games hit RES here.

Weapon triangle advantage raises ATK by 20%, and disadvantage lowers it by 20%, before defence. Since average ATK is around 43 and average damage per hit is around 16, this means that ±20% ATK works out to around 50% more damage dealt and 50% less damage received (or vice versa)... a big deal!

Hitting a type weakness raises ATK by 50%, before defence (stacks multiplicatively with the above). Again, this results in a damage increase of significantly more, in this case closer to 2.25x normal damage.

As always you may wish to lessen weapon triangle effects when a Fire Emblem character fights someone from a different system, or apply them only to offence or only to defence, etc. Use your judgement.

Assumptions

Everyone is taken at 5*, Level 40, neutral stats, all skills learned. Stats are taken from the FE Heroes Wiki, occasionally cross-referenced with Gamepress for a second opinion. Since these are wikis the stats are not perfect and may contain errors, though I tried to go through and find any such errors. (I found quite a few.) If you see any numbers here which you believe to be an error, let me know!

Skill inheritance is not considered as skills gained this way are not weaked to the inheritor.

Damage is taken against the average DEF/RES of the cast itself, rounded to the nearest integer, which is 27/25. Staff damage is listed as a decimal when appropriate, though note that it is rounded down in reality.

All staff users have Assault set by default, except Azama and Lucius who have Pain.

The Fury skill raises all of a character's stats by 3 but causes them to take 6 non-fatal damage after each battle (in the Fire Emblem sense of the word). This is a very doubled-edged sword and it's tough to say whether it should be the default. I have assumed that it is because this is more true to in-game, but you could easily go the other way. Note that if you remove Fury, the durability average changes such that all durabilities are around 1% higher. Speed and damage averages would also fall by about 0.1, although there is a case to apply Fury's effect on the averages to offence but not durability given how it works. Use your judgement, again.

Life and Death is also a double-edged skill which is assumed to be set, but in this case I think most would agree the skill is generally positive (it raises ATK/SPD and lowers DEF/RES). An exception is made for Zephiel; since he has Wary Fighter (and incredibly low speed when it isn't active), he can't benefit from Life and Death's speed boost, and the higher Def/Res feels more beneficial for him overall.

Fortress Def raises DEF by 5 and lowers ATK by 3, again double-edged. I have assumed it.

10

Discussion / Musing on FF5 job balance

« on: July 01, 2016, 08:50:55 PM »

So after years of doing fiestas I wanted to try an in-depth look at this. What I'm going to do is take a look at how every job does, SCC-style, against every required boss. Why SCC? While cross-classing is interesting, it makes thing more difficult to rate, and hey some fiesta modes (earlygame with anything but FF1-style, much of the game with Upgrade) resembles an SCC. Why required bosses? Because they're the only things you have to fight. Anything else can be avoided either by luck or choice, by escaping or just not doing them. At first you might think "but this will underrate status-using jobs" but it's FF5 so it probably won't. Maybe Bard some, we'll see. I may try to incorporate randoms at some later point, but bosses give me enough to chew for now.

Some ground rules for ranking:
-Beating a boss more easily and more reliably matters. Obviously, this rewards simple strategies which kill the boss quickly. It also means that if one job has to count HP carefully and one doesn't, that matters.
-Being able to beat a boss at a lower level matters, to some extent. I'm not assuming a LLG here, but I am going to try to consider a few levels on each side of what I consider "normal" (see Tonfa's boss stat topic here for a rough gauge of normalcy and a good reference in general).
-Beating a boss while consuming fewer resources matters (in particular: phoenix downs, ethers, elixirs, rare mix ingredients, rod breaking).
-The investment needed to beat this boss matters, though less than the above. This is the price of buying any needed equipment and spells. It's usually not too big a deal; I will consider it more highly if this boss is the only reason to make that investment, or if the investment is very expensive (e.g. world 1 flame rings). This also includes things like time spent gathering blue spells.

I am not putting a heavy emphasis on beating things quickly for speed’s sake, except insofar as faster wins are frequently safer and easier. This is not a speedrun analysis.

Weighting all this isn't an exact science. Anyway, on with the show. I expect (and encourage!) different takes on rankings as such.


Karlabos

Karlabos can paralyze, inflict HP-1 with Tailscrew, or hit for weaksauce damage. Potions let someone survive a hit after a poke so there's no real danger of losing.

Black Mage can reliably two-round, and sometimes even one-round. Monk will two- or three-round, depending on luck. Knight is probably more of a four-round. Thief is worse still, the Dagger-user is similar to Knight but the Knife users will kinda suck, so probably 5-6 turns. Blue Mage either one-rounds with Goblin Punch if they're Level 5, or has sub-Knight damage with Aero... but they also have Vampire which fully heals its user and does damage. Hard to say.

White Mage has hideous damage, probably kills in 9 or 10 turns of solid attacking, yuck. But on the other hand, unlike Knight/Thief, they won't likely have to use any potions, because Cure should last long enough to heal up anyone hit by Tailscrew (or who falls to low enough HP to need it anyway).

1. Black Mage
2. Monk
3. Blue Mage
4. White Mage
5. Knight
6. Thief

There's room to quibble here. You could argue Blue Mage lower because they're the only one who needs any out-of-the-way effort against this easy foe (though not below Thief, since magicless Blue Mage is comparable to them at worst), or quibble the relative costs of the weapons/spells they need to function against this boss. (This could push Monk up slightly.) But this feels right.


Siren

Siren can actually win with her damage occasionally. She shifts between a physical-weak form and a magic-weak form after taking three actions in each, while being highly resistant to the other. Everyone can damage the magic-weak form with potions since it's undead, but they're not great offence or anything. She starts in the physical-weak form which matters!

Monk can punch her in the face and will usually kill her before she transforms (unless she uses Haste + Protect). If they let her transform then hopefully they can finish her off with a few potions, but they'd really rather not. Actually, they can probably use Focus to outrace Protect, even.

Knight probably won't be so lucky. Still, at worst, they can spam Guard against her undead form, since it's all physical. Thief, meanwhile, just has to kinda suck. Their offence will be VERY bad if they didn't get some rare-drop daggers from skeletons; if they got three, they're actually about knight-level now!

Blue Mage hits both defences well (Goblin Punch, Aero) and can hang in the back row and have Vampire against form 1. They're fine. Again, their only downside is whatever you dock them for needing these spells.

Black Mage kinda sits and stares blankly at the first form, but it shouldn't kill them (sleep is somewhat annoying, but they can poke each other to heal it). Once the undead form appears they can blow it up with fire from the back row in two rounds. There's a chance they may have to use a potion I guess.

White Mage is similar to Black Mage except their Cure offence is way lower than Black Mage's Fire. They can Cure each other at least! They also have a Flail so one of them can kiinda damage form 1 but not really.

1. Monk
2. Black Mage
3. White Mage
4. Blue Mage
5. Knight
6. Thief

Not really certain here either. Only Knight/Thief are in any danger of losing and it's still not great, and nobody should really spend too many resources. I swapped White/Blue from Karlabos because white's offence is somewhat better here, but that's one that could go either way.


Magissa and Forza

Magissa uses L1 spells on odd-numbered turns, not very strong. On even-numbered turns, her damage is better, including a 1/3 risk of Drain which can potentially OHKO and also heals her a bunch. When below 46% HP, she'll use a turn to summon Forza, placing herself in the back row; Forza hits for 2HKO damage to the front row and is a little bulkier than the frail Magissa. It's possible to bypass this limit summon.

One can't really do better than Monk here. They use Focus and kill Magissa before her second turn, the end.

Knights can dodge the summon if they're crafty about their damage, but it's easy to accidentally hit her into the limit turn 1 then have trouble finishing her off before her next turn which could be drain. Guard/Cover combo annihilates Forza once they have Magissa down, though.

Thief... poor Thief, they're bad here. Gonna be seeing that limit, Drain is scary, Forza is scary since they want to be in the front row for their damage... last again.

White Mage has a bunch of cool tricks here, but the damage is wretched (like 30HKO Forza with their one Flail). Still, they can kinda lock down Magissa with Silence and Protect + back row mostly deals with Forza. That said, this fight has more potential to go south for them than the previous, since Silence doesn't stop Magissa's Aero, and if she breaks out of it at a bad time Drain could OHKO.

Blue Mage and Black Mage both can break a frost rod to instantly end this fight if they deem it an adequate threat. (Said rod is semi-hidden, reasonably valuable, and it's the only one they get for this + the next boss, so score this as you will.) Still, Black Mage is pretty good here anyway because they can put Forza to sleep. Magissa's Drain is a concern for sure but honestly their damage to Magissa is good enough they may well not see it. Blue Mage is the same, 4x Aero should first knock her into the limit then kill her, and they can recover with Vampire from there, or use Flash if they got it (requires using an ether). Feels like less of a total lockdown than sleep, though.

1. Monk
2. Black Mage
3. Blue Mage
4. Knight
5. White Mage
6. Thief


Garula

Above 2/3 HP he's a wuss. Below, he can counter every hit twice with physicals, some of which add Sap.

Blue Mage can turn him into a frog, lol. Yes, he can change himself back. No, this isn't saving him from four people who can spam it right back in his face. They can also blind him. Or break that frost rod if they really want.

Black Mage can break that frost rod as well and probably want to. Otherwise, they'll trigger a bunch of counters. At least they're in the back row? Might want to just cast Blizzard with that one Frost Rod. On average they'll probably have to use a few potions to be safe.

Knight can totally shut Garula down. Equipping the max def possible at this point (requires King Tycoon's helmet) will null his damage. So will Guard spam while covering at least one low-HP ally. Sap can still go through this so there might be one or two potions needed but it's pretty safe.

White Mage hangs out in the back row with Protect making the counters pretty weak and only attacks with the Flail. Slow, but works and requires no resources beyond the relatively inexpensive spells.

Monk faces a slight problem here: dual attacks (including their punches) trigger two counters. So, four counters, here. On a front row class. Uh oh! Good news, though, they have Counter, and counters don't trigger counters. It takes some time since counter is 50% but it's pretty safe, they probably won't need to heal. Especially since they Focus can finish by taking off about the last quarter of his HP. Heck, they can probably use that to withstand the counters and win, it's just riskier.

Thief as always has the worst hand here, even if they snag one or more Mithril Knife steals from this dungeon. Front row weapons, need to trigger lots of counters, need to burn lots of potions.

1. Blue Mage
2. Black Mage
3. Monk
4. White Mage
5. Knight
6. Thief


Jobs by average rank, so far:
1t. Black Mage 1.75
1t. Monk 1.75
3. Blue Mage 2.75
4. White Mage 4
5. Knight 4.5
6. Thief 6

Looking at this, my first thought based on personal experience is that Knight and WM probably should swap, which suggests that maybe I should reward speed more. Some of this is just how much easier a time Knight has with randoms at this point, and that does matter because it allows them to gain exp/gil far more easily. I may revisit this ranking system. Am I rewarding WM's safety too much? The rest of the order intuitively looks right to me, as someone who has done every single one of these "SCCs".

11

Unranked Games / Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest & Birthright (PCs)

« on: March 22, 2016, 06:43:09 PM »

Fire Emblem: Fates is a SRPG for the 3DS, and is the fourteenth game in a series you may have heard of. It's outstanding, play it.

The game is divided into three routes, which essentially function as separate games: Birthright, Conquest, and Revelation. Unless one buys the special edition which includes all three routes, players begin with access to either Birthright or Conquest, and then can download the others for about half the price of a standard 3DS game. The routes branch out from the shared first five chapters, and feature different plot, different maps, and largely different PCs. They will be treated separately in this thread.

All the PCs from both Conquest and Birthright are included here; each path has its own post. As Revelation only has one unique PC and in any case is essentially a strictly DLC (or limited edition) route, I probably won't bother with that one.

The game has some new and updated mechanics which you may wish to read about first; the DL-pertinent ones are noted here. Not included is any information on the new Dual Strike and Pair Up systems (which are neat as heck, but only function when you have multiple PCs).

Basic formulas

Atk = Str/Mag + weapon might + weapon rank bonus
Damage = Atk - Def/Res

Hit = (Skl*3 + Luck) / 2 + weapon hit + weapon rank bonus
Avo = (Spd*3 + Luck) / 2
Accuracy = Hit - Avo

Important: Fire Emblem Fates uses a new system to calculate true hit from displayed accuracy. Work is currently underway to determine what it is, but it's all but confirmed that it's some sort of "compromise" between the 2 RN system used by many recent games in the series and more straightforward 1 RN system. So you can still expect accuracy to be closer than 100 than displayed (for values above 50), but not by as much as previous games. One theory is that true hit is based on taking two random numbers A and B, and seeing if (3A + B) / 4 is below the displayed accuracy (if it is, the attack hits). For now, this stat topic will only list displayed hit.

For pure status attacks (staves), the formula is instead as follows:
Hit = Mag + Skl + Base staff hit rate + staff rank bonus
Avo = (Res*3 + Luck) / 2
Accuracy = Hit - Avo
(Note that Res is far less potent than it used to be for warding off status, compared to GBA/Tellius.)

Crit = (Skl - 4) / 2
Dodge = Luck / 2
Critical% = Crit - Dodge
(The formulas for Crit and Dodge are changed from Awakening.)

Note that classes and weapons may modify any of Hit, Avo, Crit, and Dodge. These modifications will be listed on the weapons and classes in question. Skills may modify any of those, as well as damage dealt and received.

Weapon rank bonuses to Atk and Hit are as follows:
For swords and daggers: +1 Atk at C, +2 Atk at B, +3 Atk at A, +4 Atk/+5 Hit at S
For axes: +5 Hit at C, +10 Hit at B, +1 Atk/+10 Hit at A, +2 Atk/+15 Hit at S
For staves: +1 healing at C, +1 healing/+5 Hit at B, +2 healing/+5 Hit at A, +3 healing/+10 Hit at S
Everything else: +1 Atk at C, +1 Atk/+5 Hit at B, +2 Atk/+5 Hit at A, +3 Atk/+10 Hit at S

The weapon triangle has been modified:
Swords and Tomes > Axes and Bows > Lances and Daggers > Swords and Tomes

Weapon triangle advantage nullifies the opponent's weapon rank bonuses to Atk and Hit, and also has the following effects, depending on the weapon rank of the unit with advantage:
D: +5 Hit, +5 Avo
C: +10 Hit, +10 Avo
B: +10 Hit, +10 Avo, +1 damage dealt, -1 damage received
A: +15 Hit, +15 Avo, +1 damage dealt, -1 damage received
S: +20 Hit, +20 Avo, +2 damage dealt, -2 damage received
If using a weapon which reverses the weapon triangle, the effects are doubled.

If the opponent isn't from a game with the weapon triangle you may wish to half these effects, blah blah blah, same as any other FE.


Equipment and Forging

In Fire Emblem Fates, equipment no longer breaks. Forging is back, but works differently (yet again!). To forge weapons, you combine two identical weapons into a single, slightly stronger version. For instance, you can combine two Iron Swords to create an Iron Sword +1, and you can combine two Iron Swords +1 to create an Iron Sword +2 (requires a total of 4 Iron Swords). The single act of forging a +N weapon requires N gems, which are gained over time through a combination of castle features. Each weapon type requires its own type of gem.

Forged weapons have bonuses over the base weapon as follows:
+1 weapon = +2 atk (requires 2 base weapons, 1 gem total)
+2 weapon = +4 atk, +2 hit (requires 4 base weapons, 4 gems total)
+3 weapon = +6 atk, +4 hit, +1 crit (requires 8 base weapons, 11 gems total)
+4 weapon = +8 atk, +6 hit, +3 crit (requires 16 base weapons, 26 gems total)

(Note: weapons which can not critical get their crit bonus applied to hit instead.)

It's possible to go beyond +4, but at that point the returns diminish (in particular, the atk bonus only increases by a further +1 per stage) and the costs get completely exorbitant. The maximum is +7.

In this stat topic, I will list a number of weapons assumed to be +2 or +1. To calculate weaker versions of these weapons, you remove 2 atk per stage, and 2 hit except for the change between base and +1. Calculating stronger versions is basically the reverse, of course.


Skills

Each character has a personal skill, which is unique to them. This skill is permanently set.

Otherwise, the skills each character has is based on gaining levels in classes. In general, characters gain skills at Levels 1 and 10 in unpromoted classes, and 5 and 15 in promoted ones. If a character changes classes, then he or she will gain one skill associated that with that class or its unpromoted version with every level he or she gains, starting with the lowest-levelled skill he or she doesn't yet know, until he or she has all the skills he or she is "supposed" to by that level.

A character can only set a maximum of 5 class skills. If he or she gains a sixth, he or she must unequip one (they can be swapped between fights). The personal skill does not count towards this maximum and is always equipped. Nobody has more than 5 DL-relevant class skills, so this isn't really an issue.


Debuffs

A major new feature of Fates' gameplay is the ability to lower the stats of your enemies (and yourself!). For instance, hitting an enemy with a Silver Dagger lowers their Speed, Defence, and Resist by 4. Using a silver weapon in combat lowers the user's Strength and Skill by 2 after the combat ends.

All debuffs recover by 1 point in each affected stat at the start of the phase of the character affected.

Debuffs do not stack, but they do overlap. If two effects of the same stat are applied, the higher effect to that stat takes precedence. For instance, if a character currently has -2 Str and -6 Def and is hit by a Steel Dagger, which inflicts -3 Str, -4 Def, and -4 Res, their new debuff effects will be: -3 Str, -6 Def, -4 Res.

The exception to the above rule is that self-inflicted debuffs do stack. Attacking with a Silver weapon will add a -2 debuff to whatever existing effect was already present. For instance, if a character attacks an enemy who does not counter once each turn with a Silver weapon, they will lower their Str/Skl by 2 after the first attack, recover to -1 at the start of their next turn, then lower their stats to -3 after attacking on the second turn.

There are a few other weapons which debuff their user by cutting the relevant offensive stat in half after use, but these aren't DL-relevant.


New terms

Fates' skill system tinkers much more heavilly with the battle system, and also uses some new terms to describe some old mechanics. Here's what you need to know:

"Followup attack": This is what the DL typically refers to as doubling. If your speed is 5 more than your opponent's, you get an extra strike, after the initial attack and counter have resolved.
"Followup attack speed +/-X": This means that your speed is treated as +/-X for the purpose of deciding if you get a followup attack. For instance, steel weapons mean have "followup attack speed -3" which means that your speed is considered 3 loewr for the purpose of doubling (i.e. your actual speed needs to beat the opponent's by 8). Hand Axes have "enemy followup attack speed +5" which means that enemies only need to match your speed to double you!
"Battle": This does not refer to the entire battle in the traditional sense, simply to an exchange of attack and optional counterattack. The few multitarget attacks in the game (ballistas, for instance) are not considered battles, and nor are pure status attacks (staves), so you might not want to consider other multiarget or pure status attacks such, either.
"After a battle, X occurs": Some skills activate only after the battle is completed. These occur after ANY battle, whether or not the character with the skill hit the enemy, or even attacked, except where noted. However, the major exception is that if a character is killed in the battle, their skills will not activate. (This is crucial to dealing with some enemy skills in-game.) Skills which deal extra damage after a battle will never be fatal, leaving those affected with at least 1 HP.
"Weapon can not trigger skills": Some weapons can't trigger skills. This refers only to skills which activate on attacks with a percent chance, such as Sol and Luna. Other skills still activate normally.



Assumptions

Most of these are attempts to compromise the views put forward in the discussion thread for this stat topic, found here. If you have any thoughts to add to the discussion, please post there.

-The following enemy stats are assumed:
Conquest: 25 Def, 21 Res, 135 Hit, 40 Avo, 5 Dodge. These are based on Conquest Hard, Chapters 26-27, with some rounding for Hit/Avo. If you're curious, the average Speed is 24 (with a spread of 12-37), though that won't be used directly in this topic. The Hit is juiced about 5 points from the actual average due to placing a heavier emphasis on bosses.
Birthright: 24 Def, 19 Res, 130 Hit, 40 Avo, 5 Dodge. These are from Birthright Hard, Chapter 27 (26 is... kind of a plot fight). Average speed is 21, with a spread of 11 to 30. Same caveat applies about Hit.

-Physical and magical durability are calculated against an attack which does 60% to average. Yes, this is high! It is that high in-game (at least on Hard)! Going lower causes Benny's pdur to shoot up to near invincible, if you're curious. Both this point and the previous may be amended when I have a chance to look over Birthright's figures.

-All stats and damage are rounded to 1 decimal place, with derived stats rounded to the nearest integer. If you want to round further, feel free.

-No children PCs are listed, for now. Maybe in the future!

-Conquest and Birthright are treated as separate game experiences, with separate averages and legal equipment.

-Endgame level is 20/15, or the level at which the character gains an equivalent amount of Exp per kill. Characters who have non-standard levels due to this will be noted.

-Characters must remain on their primary class tree. They may choose either promotion, if initially unpromoted. If initially promoted, they may change to the other promoted class on the same class tree, if they wish.

-At the moment, no character is treated as using two seals. The main characters who might want to are characters who gain a useful skill at 20/15 itself, but allowing this is questionable.

-The only weapons listed in this stat topic are ones that costs 4000 gold at most, from the primary armoury and vendor of the respective route. If you allow other weapons, consult the effects of forging, above. You may wish to apply a budget limit to characters, the costs of equipment will be listed so you can do this.

-Additionally, weapons are only treated as legal if
(a) they are infinitely storebought
(b) they are storebought in large numbers, such as the Javelin and Hand Axe (10 can be bought per playthrough, not counting any gained from other means). These weapons are limited to +1 forges, though, as it isn't reasonable to get enough +2's to outfit the PCs who might want them on a team.
(c) they are weapons of use only to a very small number of PCs, such as Nosferatu and magical versions of physical weapons. These exist on questionable grounds and you may not wish to allow them; they are marked with a star.

Killer and Brave weapons are not considered, as there generally aren't enough to go around. The case is better for weapon types which have fewer characters that can use them (namely bows on Conquest and clubs/axes in Birthright), particularly for Shura's Killer Bow and Scarlet's Killer Axe (initial equipment on both), but making an exception for one weapon group like that rubs me the wrong way.

There is also a single Beaststone+ in the game and a single Dragonstone+, and two potential users of each (however, one is a child in both cases). On the Birthright route, there is additionally only one Beastrune. Again, these weapons will be marked with a star.

-PCs are assumed to have an A rank in their primary weapon (or the maximum allowed by their class, if lower), and C in any other weapon types.


Equipment (Conquest)

Any weapon without a listed gold price can not be forged or sold (or if they can be sold, fetch no return price).

Swords (1 range, unless noted)
Bronze Sword: E, 4 mt, 100 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Bronze Sword +1: 6 mt, 100 hit (1000 gold)
--Bronze Sword +2: 8 mt, 102 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Sword: D, 6 mt, 90 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Sword +1: 8 mt, 90 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Sword +2: 10 mt, 92 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Sword: C, 9 mt, 85 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Sword +1: 11 mt, 85 hit
Silver Sword: B, 12 mt, 90 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
*Levin Sword: C, 11 mt, 80 hit, -20 avo, 1-2 range, magical, can't critical or trigger skills (3300 gold)
Siegfried: 11 mt, 80 hit, +5 crit, +10 dodge, 1-2 range. Raises Xander's Def by 4 if in inventory. [Xander only]
Shadow Yato: 16 mt, 85 hit, +10 crit, +10 avo, +10 dodge, halves the damage reduction of Dragonskin. +1 Spd, -1 Def/Res if equipped. Raises Corrin's Def/Res by 4 if in inventory (net of +3 if equipped). [Corrin only]

Lances (1 range, unless noted)
Bronze Lance: E, 5 mt, 90 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Bronze Lance +1: 7 mt, 90 hit (1000 gold)
--Bronze Lance +2: 9 mt, 92 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Lance: D, 7 mt, 80 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Lance +1: 9 mt, 80 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Lance +2: 11 mt, 82 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Lance: C, 10 mt, 75 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Lance +1: 12 mt, 75 hit
Silver Lance: B, 14 mt, 80 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
Javelin: D, 6 mt, 75 hit, 1-2 range, can't followup attack, critical, or trigger skills, enemy followup attack speed +5 (1800 gold)
--Javelin +1: 8 mt, 75 hit (3600 gold)

Axes (1 range, unless noted)
Bronze Axe: E, 6 mt, 80 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Bronze Axe +1: 8 mt, 80 hit (1000 gold)
--Bronze Axe +2: 10 mt, 82 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Axe: D, 8 mt, 70 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Axe +1: 10 mt, 70 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Axe +2: 12 mt, 72 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Axe: C, 12 mt, 65 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Axe +1: 14 mt, 65 hit
Silver Axe: B, 16 mt, 70 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
Hand Axe: D, 7 mt, 65 hit, 1-2 range, can't followup attack, critical, or trigger skills, enemy followup attack speed +5 (1800 gold)
--Hand Axe +1: 9 mt, 65 hit (3600 gold)
*Bolt Axe: C, 14 mt, 65 hit, -20 avo, 1-2 range, magical, can't critical or trigger skills (3300 gold)

Daggers (1-2 range)
All daggers debuff their target on a successful hit; the debuff is noted in the entry. The debuff occurs after the battle if the target survives, even if the dagger-user is killed (unlike debuff skills), but only if the dagger hits the target at least once.

Bronze Dagger: E, 2 mt, 100 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills. Debuff: Skl/Spd -1, Def/Res -2. (500 gold)
--Bronze Dagger +1: 4 mt, 100 hit (1000 gold)
--Bronze Dagger +2: 6 mt, 102 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Dagger: D, 4 mt, 90 hit. Debuff: Mag -2, Def/Res -3. (1000 gold)
--Iron Dagger +1: 6 mt, 90 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Dagger +2: 8 mt, 92 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Dagger: C, 7 mt, 85 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3. Debuff: Str -3, Def/Res -4.  (2000 gold)
--Steel Dagger +1: 9 mt, 85 hit
Silver Dagger: B, 10 mt, 90 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle**. Debuff: Spd/Def/Res -4. (4000 gold)

Bows (2 range, unless noted)
Bronze Bow: E, 6 mt, 90 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Bronze Bow +1: 8 mt, 90 hit (1000 gold)
--Bronze Bow +2: 10 mt, 92 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Bow: D, 8 mt, 80 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Bow +1: 10 mt, 80 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Bow +2: 12 mt, 82 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Bow: C, 11 mt, 75 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Bow +1: 12 mt, 75 hit
Silver Bow: B, 15 mt, 80 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
*Mini Bow: D, 7 mt, 75 hit, -10 avo, 1 range (2400 gold)
*Shining Bow: C, 13 mt, 70 hit, -20 avo, 1-2 range, magical, can't critical or trigger skills (3300 gold)
*Killer Bow: C, 7 mt, 75 hit, +25 crit, -10 avo, critical hits deal 4x damage (3000 gold) [Shura initial equipment]

Tomes (1-2 range, magical)
Fire: E, 3 mt, 90 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Fire +1: 5 mt, 90 hit (1000 gold)
--Fire +2: 7 mt, 92 hit (2000 gold)
Thunder: D, 5 mt, 80 hit (1000 gold)
--Thunder +1: 7 mt, 80 hit (2000 gold)
--Thunder +2: 9 mt, 82 hit (4000 gold)
Fimbulvetr: C, 8 mt, 75 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Fimbulvetr +1: 10 mt, 75 hit
Ragnarok: B, 11 mt, 80 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
*Nosferatu: D, 7 mt, 70 hit, -20 avo, can't followup attack, critical, or trigger skills, heals user for half of damage dealt (4000 gold) [Dark Mage/Sorcerer only]
Brynhildr: 10 mt, 80 hit, 5 crit, +10 dodge. Skl% chance of halving magic damage received if equipped. [Leo only]


Equipment (Birthright)

Any weapon without a listed gold price can not be forged or sold (or if they can be sold, fetch no return price).

Katanas (1 range, unless noted)
(All katanas count as swords and give +1 Spd, -1 Def/Res if equipped)
Brass Katana: E, 4 mt, 100 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Brass Katana +1: 6 mt, 100 hit (1000 gold)
--Brass Katana +2: 8 mt, 102 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Katana: D, 6 mt, 90 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Katana +1: 8 mt, 90 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Katana +2: 10 mt, 92 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Katana: C, 9 mt, 85 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Katana +1: 11 mt, 85 hit
Silver Katana: B, 12 mt, 90 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
Kodachi: 5 mt, 85 hit, 1-2 range, can't followup attack, critical, or trigger skills, enemy followup attack speed +5 (1800 gold)
--Kodachi +1: 7 mt, 85 hit (3600 gold)
Raijinto: 11 mt, 80 hit, +5 crit, +10 avo, 1-2 range. Raises Ryoma's Str by 4 if in inventory. [Ryoma only]
Blazing Yato: 16 mt, 85 hit, +10 crit, +10 avo, +10 dodge, halves the damage reduction of Dragonskin. Raises Corrin's Str/Spd by 4 if in inventory. [Corrin only]

Naginatas (1 range, unless noted)
(All naginatas count as lances and give +1 Def/Res if equipped)
Brass Naginata: E, 4 mt, 90 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Brass Naginata +1: 6 mt, 90 hit (1000 gold)
--Brass Naginata +2: 8 mt, 92 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Naginata: D, 6 mt, 80 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Naginata +1: 8 mt, 80 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Naginata +2: 10 mt, 82 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Naginata: C, 9 mt, 75 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Naginata +1: 11 mt, 75 hit
Silver Naginata: B, 13 mt, 80 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
*Bolt Naginata: C, 11 mt, 70 hit, -20 avo, 1-2 range, magical, can't critical or trigger skills (3300 gold)
*Guard Naginata: C, 5 mt, 75 hit, -10 avo. +5 Def/Res if equipped (instead of +1). (2700 gold) [Hinoka initial equipment]

Clubs (1 range, unless noted)
(All clubs count as axes)
Brass Club: E, 5 mt, 85 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Brass Club +1: 7 mt, 85 hit (1000 gold)
--Brass Club +2: 9 mt, 87 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Club: D, 6 mt, 75 hit, +5 crit (1000 gold)
--Iron Club +1: 8 mt, 75 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Club +2: 10 mt, 77 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Club: C, 10 mt, 70 hit, +5 crit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Club +1: 12 mt, 70 hit
Silver Club: B, 14 mt, 75 hit, +5 crit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
Throwing Club: D, 6 mt, 70 hit, 1-2 range, can't followup attack, critical, or trigger skills, enemy followup attack speed +5 (1800 gold)
--Throwing Club +1: 8 mt, 70 hit (3600 gold)
*Killer Axe: C, 8 mt, 65 hit, +25 crit, -10 avo, critical hits deal 4x damage (3000 gold) [Scarlet initial equipment]

Shuriken (1-2 range)
All shuriken debuff their target on a successful hit; the debuff is noted in the entry. The debuff occurs after the battle if the target survives, even if the dagger-user is killed (unlike debuff skills), but only if the dagger hits the target at least once.

(All shuriken count as daggers and give +2 Spd if equipped)
Brass Shuriken: E, 2 mt, 95 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills. Debuff: Skl/Spd -1, Def/Res -2. (500 gold)
--Brass Shuriken +1: 4 mt, 95 hit (1000 gold)
--Brass Shuriken +2: 6 mt, 97 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Shuriken: D, 4 mt, 85 hit. Debuff: Mag -2, Def/Res -3. (1000 gold)
--Iron Shuriken +1: 6 mt, 85 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Shuriken +2: 8 mt, 97 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Shuriken: C, 7 mt, 80 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3. Debuff: Str -3, Def/Res -4.  (2000 gold)
--Steel Shuriken +1: 9 mt, 80 hit
Silver Shuriken: B, 10 mt, 85 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle**. Debuff: Spd/Def/Res -4. (4000 gold)
*Flame Shuriken: C, 9 mt, 75 hit, -20 avo, magical, can't critical or trigger skills. Debuff: Mag/Def/Res -4. (3300 gold)

Yumi (2 range, unless noted)
(All yumi count as bows and give +2 res if equipped)
Brass Yumi: E, 7 mt, 80 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills (500 gold)
--Brass Yumi +1: 9 mt, 80 hit (1000 gold)
--Brass Yumi +2: 11 mt, 82 hit (2000 gold)
Iron Yumi: D, 9 mt, 70 hit (1000 gold)
--Iron Yumi +1: 11 mt, 70 hit (2000 gold)
--Iron Yumi +2: 13 mt, 72 hit (4000 gold)
Steel Yumi: C, 12 mt, 65 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3 (2000 gold)
--Steel Yumi +1: 14 mt, 65 hit
Silver Yumi: B, 16 mt, 70 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle** (4000 gold)
Fujin Yumi: 14 mt, 70 hit, +5 crit, +10 avo [Takumi only]
*Spy's Yumi: A, 5 mt, 55 hit, -20 avo, range 3, can't followup attack (8000 gold) [Shura initial equipment]

Scrolls (1-2 range, magical)
(All scrolls count as tomes)
Rat Spirit: E, 3 mt, 85 hit, +10 dodge, can't critical or trigger skills. +1 Skl if equipped. (500 gold)
--Rat Spirit +1: 5 mt, 85 hit (1000 gold)
--Rat Spirit +2: 7 mt, 87 hit (2000 gold)
Ox Spirit: D, 5 mt, 75 hit. +1 Def if equipped. (1000 gold)
--Ox Spirit +1: 7 mt, 75 hit (2000 gold)
--Ox Spirit +2: 9 mt, 77 hit (4000 gold)
Tiger Spirit: C, 8 mt, 70 hit, -5 avo, followup attack speed -3. +1 Spd if equipped. (2000 gold)
--Tiger Spirit +1: 10 mt, 70 hit
Rabbit Spirit: B, 11 mt, 75 hit, -5 dodge, debuff self after battle**. +1 Res if equipped. (4000 gold)


Equipment (both routes)

Dragonstones (1 range, magical, can't followup attack)
Dragonstone: E, 14 mt, 85 hit, -10 avo, +10 dodge. -3 Skl, -2 Spd, +4 Def, +3 Res if equipped.
*Dragonstone+: C, 25 mt, 75 hit, -10 avo, +10 dodge, debuffs self after battle**. -5 Skl, -4 Spd, +9 Def, +7 Res if equipped.

Beaststones (1 range)
Beaststone: E, 6 mt, 90 hit, +5 crit, +10 avo, +10 dodge. +5 Skl, +3 Spd, -2 Def if equipped.
Beastrune: C, 9 mt, 80 hit, +10 dodge. -2 Skl, -1 Spd, +4 Def, +5 Res if equipped.
*Beaststone+: B, 12 mt, 90 hit, +5 crit, +10 avo, +10 dodge, debuffs self after battle**. +8 Skl, +6 Spd, -5 Def, -3 Res if equipped.

**All weapons which are listed as "debuffs self after battle" have the following effect: after any battle in which they successfully hit an enemy, the user's Str and Skl are debuffed by -2, stacking with any previous debuffs. In the case of Ragnarok, Rabbit Spirit, and Dragonstone+, Mag is debuffed instead of Str. The number of hits does not matter, only that there is at least one (so units who double don't get debuffed any faster).

12

Unranked Games / Fire Emblem Fates: Laying the groundwork

« on: March 07, 2016, 01:53:46 AM »

Might as well start this up! I played on Conquest, so for now all thoughts are based on that route, but some of it will generalise to Birthright reasonably well. (The specifics on equipment and character classes will be different, of course.)

Some interp stuff to discuss:

Classes and class changing

At base it's kinda like Awakening. Unpromoted PCs use Master Seals to promote, and there are (usually) two choices. Additionally, everyone has access to a second class branch, in addition to the one they start on. (They can get access to more, but it requires supports, and is presumably not DL legal.) A Heart Seal can be used to change classes. Unlike in Awakening, changing classes does not do anything to change or lower your level. If Elise uses a Heart Seal as a Level 15 Troubadour, she can become a Level 15 Wyvern Rider.

Skills are gained at 1 and 10 on unpromoted classes, then 5 and 15 on promoted ones. If you gain a level in a class for which you don't yet have the skills (due to reclassing), you gain the lowest-level skill you don't yet have. This includes skills from prerequisite classes.

What's legal, here? One option is to just allow unpromoted people to promote, and promoted folks are stuck in whatever class they're in. That's closer to how past FEs did it, but deprives the prepromos of a valuable choice which unpromoted characters get.

Another, which I favour a bit more, is to allow everyone to use one Seal. For unpromoted types this will always be a Master Seal, for prepromos it will be a Heart Seal. I'm not sure what should be seen as legal for reclassing. Only the other class on their primary class tree? (e.g. Great Knight/Paladin) Any class they have access to? Some of the prepromos really won't want this option anyway.

Still another option is to assign characters a budget and let them buy as many seals as they want, but take it out of their equipment budget. Since everyone has access to only 2-3 class branches, this does keep things rather unique.

There's also a question of if PCs are locked into a class, or if they can choose fight-to-fight.


Levels

Stat topic level will be 20/15, because it's by far the nicest. (I also finiished around there.) Reasons to make it this are that 15 promoted is when each class gains its final skill, so going lower means we miss out on those. Going higher means a few characters ram their level cap, which isn't terribly fair to them.

Special cases:
-Jakob and Felicia gain levels as if they are 20 levels lower than displayed, and cap at 40. Thus, their DL level is 35.
-Gunther gains levels as if he is 15 levels lower than displayed, and caps at 30. Thus, his DL level is 30.
-Camilla (and, from what I've read, Reina) gain levels as if she is 5 levels lower than displayed. Thus, her DL level is 20.
-Leo gains levels as if he is 2 levels lower than displayed. Thus, his DL level is 17.
-Corrin has Nobility, which boosts her Exp by 20%. Unless she is higher-levelled than the enemy (not too likely by the end, as enemy levels spike up quickly late), this works out to roughly gaining levels as if  she were two levels lower, thus her DL level is 17.

Exp is heavilly curved in this game compared to previous FEs, and nobody joins too close to Endgame, so it's reasonable to take everyone else at the same level. Staff/dance exp is also very uncompetitive late, so no hyping that as a reason to take healers higher-levelled.

If someone wants to argue any of this feel free.


Equipment

Nothing breaks! But in Conquest at least, there's a reasonably tight budget. There's a total of about 125k gold in the maingame, and the party size is 16. Dividing one number by the other leaves about 7800 gold per PC, and we're probably burning 2k of that on a Seal. This number can be quibbled in various ways: you may miss some of these chests/rewards, but there's also more to be had from various optional Paralogues (which primarily depends on which kids you get and which ones you feel like doing). You may spend money on vairous non-DL stuff (healing items, tonics, staves/rods in general), you may splurge on core PCs while disadvantaging filler. etc.

Still, 6000 gold per PC (or perhaps 8000 - the number of seals used * 2000) is a pretty round number and I think it works pretty well as an equipment budget for each PC.


Forging

You mine gems of one type at a decent clip (2-4 per day), and can trade 5 of that type for 1 of another. There are six types in all, one for each weapon class. Once you have one of each, you can use the arena (refreshes every 6 hours or battle) to turn 1 gem into 2 or even 4 (or 8?) depending on your arena level. It's easy enough to get an ample gem supply for forging, the real limiter is money. To forge a +1 weapon, you need two of that weapon. To forge a +2 weapon, you need four. To forge a +3 weapon, you need eight. This rapidly gets expensive.


Legal weapons

In general, Bronze, Iron, Steel, and Silver can be bought in infinite numbers. Bronze boosts crit evade by 10, but can not crit, and costs 500. Iron is straightforward, and costs 1000. Steel reduces your effective speed for offensive doubling purposes by 3, and costs 2000. Silver is the best in the DL, despite being kinda iffy in-game: it costs 4000 and has tremendous power, but the downside is you lose 2 Str and Skl (Mag for tomes) every time you use one in combat, and this stacks.

An army of silver-wielders is not something I find terribly tempting in-game, but it will be the best option for many PCs, and I don't see any reason to find it illegal. It also rewards higher weapon ranks since most other weapons which do so aren't DL-legal.

Most other weapons can be bought in finite number. For instance, there is only one of each Brave weapon buyable, and 2 of each Killer. For the number of potential users, this doesn't strike me as legal. The exceptions:

-You can buy 10 each of Javelins and Hand Axes, which is more than enough for one each for any reasonable team, but may make forging them questionable. (Certainly +2 would be illegal). They cost 1800.
-You can buy two Levin Swords (cost 3300), range 1-2 swords which deal magic damage, and the only sword-user with high magic is Corrin. Thus, one is probably legal for her.
-Similarly, the Bolt Axe and Shining Bow also cost 3300 and deal magical 1-2 range damage for axe-users and bow-users, and you can buy two. It's hard to imagine more than two PCs wanting these (Camilla and MK Beruka miiight want the axe since Trample gives them decent enough Mag, for Niles and Shura it's the only 1-2 bow)
-Another bow option is the Mini Bow, again there are two, and two first-gen archers. It's a range-1 only physcial bow, and costs 2400.
-Nosferatu is back, nerfed but still useful in a duel. It costs 4000, and there are only two. By my views, there are three legal dark users: Odin, Nyx, and Leo... but you can argue it's unlikely you'll deploy all three as Sorcerers. Not sure.

I'm not sure if these will all be useful.

Even if you stick the PCs with the budget, the question becomes, what if they want to change? You could force them not to, you could let them change everything between fights, or you could have a default and make any changes only by the gold earned by selling things they don't need for the fight. I'm not sure myself.


Class choices

Tentative ideas I have, based on "one seal per character". This changes under different views, of course. Along with each class is the quick reason I went with each decision. Some may need a second look!

(spoilers, it's a PC list, don't read if you don't want to know it)

Corrin - Nohr Noble. Has access to Dragonstones, only unquestionably legal class, since you choose the second.
Felicia - Maid, only knife class. If not allowed Flame Shuriken, though, is probably better off with Strategist despite tome rank woes.
Jakob - Butler, only knife class
Elise - Strategist, tomes
Silas - Great Knight, better overall stats since move doesn't matter
Arthur - Berserker, speed + Axefaire
Effie - General, better stats and Wary Fighter
Mozu - Master of Arms, better caps
Odin - Sorcerer, Nosferatu + better mag/speed
Niles - Adventurer, Lucky Seven
Azura - Falcon Knight, best stats/caps. Songstress is unique but not DL-useful at all...
Nyx - Sorcerer, Nosferatu + better mag/speed
Camilla - Wyvern Lord after getting Trample, better stats/speed cap
Beruka - Malig Knight, Trample is probably worth the worse stats otherwise... unsure
Selena - Hero, Hand Axe access
Kaze - Master Ninja, better speed cap and Shurikenfaire
Laslow - Hero, Hand Axe access
Peri - Great Knight, better overall stats since move doesn't matter
Benny - General, better stats and Wary Fighter
Charlotte - Berserker, speed + Axefaire
Leo - Sorcerer, Nosferatu + best overall stats
Keaton - Wolfssegner, only legal option
Gunter - Totally unsure. He has access to Cav/Merc/Wyvern for branches. Malig Knight for Trample?
Xander - Great Knight for the same reason as the other Cavs, he's being wrecked by mages anyway
Shura - Bow Knight because it has better stats than Lucky Seven and he still has Lucky Seven
Flora - Maid, only knife class
Izana - Onmyoji, only tome class

These could use a second set of eyes to look 'em over.


I already have some average stat calcs mostly done, so I can post the early version soon if people are intereted. Still a lot more leg-work for the stat topic as a whole, though. There's also other new stuff to talk about, like debuffs.

13

RPG Stats Forum / Final Fantasy V: Bartz, Lenna, Faris, and Galuf/Krile

« on: October 29, 2014, 05:48:15 AM »

Inspired by Snowfire's Bravely Default "plot jobs" PC stat topic, here is the equivalent thing for the FF5 PCs. This is an interp which has been thrown around for over a decade, but has never before had a stat topic. Due to their access to many jobs, these setups are far more powerful than individual FF5 jobs, and also look more like in-game setups, too.

Assumptions

Everyone gets access to all the jobs of the crystals associated with their element (which is Bartz = Wind, Lenna = Water, Faris = Fire, Galuf/Krile = Earth). Everyone also gets access to Freelancer, since it's their initial job in all cases. (If you restrict access to that, setups get much more fluid, but also resemble in-game far less... I may get this if there's interest.)

I'm assuming everyone masters all their available jobs. Mastering 6 jobs probably isn't too practical in a normal playthrough, but 3-4 is, and typically that's all anyone needs for their setups anyway (e.g. Bartz has no reason to ever master Blue Mage or White Mage, and very little to master Knight or Black Mage). Arbitrary cutoffs could be made which would force some decisions but I don't feel comfortable making those.

Equipment claims are a bit tricky. With Freelancer in the mix, there is no unique equipment. Instead, I've decided to allow everything you can reasonably equip a full team with, or at least the full team which needs it. I'm ignoring any rare steals which are "guarded" by commons as getting these is incredibly annoying.

Weapons:
-The three best weapons for raw power are the Brave Blade/Chicken Knife (you can only have one), the Man-Eater (against human targets, i.e. most of the DL), and Masamune. Technically Masamune isn't quite third (it vs. Rune Axe depends on the magic stat), but its first strike ability would certainly propel it into the top three in practice. Thus, I've banned these three weapons, so that everyone gets a potential "fourth best" weapon (or fifth in the case of the one PC with Two Swords), such as the Rune Axe, Rune Blade, Excalibur, and Holy Lance.
-There are four weapons (two Main Gauches, Defender, Sasuke Katana) which grant 25% evasion to physicals. As such, I would see the weakest of these (the Main Gauche) as legal.
-The Sage Staff strengthens holy, which only Bartz has a use for. While Faris has a slim use for it as well (combined with Rapidfire it is her biggest damage against undead) I don't think that's enough reason to deny Bartz a boost to his best damage.
-Elemental rods and the Air Knife still strengthen elements, and are storebought so no issue there.

Shields: Same as the DL, the Crystal Shield is very solid and everything else interesting probably isn't legal. The only alternate worth noting is the Diamond Shield, which trades 2 Def and 10 evade for lightning halving.

Helmets:
-There are four Ribbons in the game (all from chests and townsfolk, even! You can get even more with steals) and they are certainly the game's best helmet for most purposes, providing solid defensive boosts, +5 to all stats, and immunity to a bunch of status.
-There are also two Gold Hairpins, which are notable only for halving MP costs, and only two of the four PCs in this stat topic use spells, so I'd see those as legal too. They are of course a stat hit compared to the above.
-Crystal Helm offers 2 more defence than a Ribbon but this is almost never worth it considering the former's stat boosts.
-Lamia's Tiara is also a corner option with confuse immunity and greater MDef/MEvade.

Armour: All the interesting things are storebought, and there isn't an obvious best.
-The Black Robe provides 14 Def/14 MDef/20 MEvade which is very overall solid, along with 5 Magic Power. This is the overall best armour for most setups.
-The Angel Robe offers 25 MEvade and immunity to poison (both element and status).
-The Diamond Armour halves Lightning.
-The Crystal Armour provides 20 Def, the best available, but 2 MDef/0 MEvade means it probably shouldn't be the default.
-The Rainbow Dress is a slightly more balanced version of the Crystal Armour, but also provides Confuse immunity and boosts Sword Dance on the PC who cares.
-The Black Garb provides 1 Agility, that is something I guess.

Accessories: Hermes Sandals are so obviously the best here that it isn't funny. If you allow accessories at all then they're the way to go: they block four statuses, have Auto-Haste (which would get eaten by scaling, YMMV if they also render Haste spells worthless), and even have decent defensive boosts. Nice job balancing this choice FF5. Angel Ring blocks a couple statuses and has slightly better defensive boosts I guess.

You can probably quibble the equipment, but it doesn't matter too much. Faris' damage fluctuates somewhat with what weapons you allow, and of course the cast hopes you don't frown on allowing them Ribbons.


Status immunities, for reference: Ribbons block Dead, Stone, Toad, Poison, Darkness, Aging, Berserk, and Silence. Hermes Sandals block Slow, Stop, Sleep, and Paralyse. Rainbow Dress stops Confuse and Angel Ring blocks Zombie, but these are not defaults.


Oh, and did you know that outside Bartz, FF5 official art/renders are awful and none of it, even more recent stuff, looks nothing like in-game? (My apologies to Amano fans.) I actually didn't, until I went looking for images for this thread. So I used fanart instead. If you own any of the art I randomly grabbed for this thread, consider yourself flattered, but if you don't want me using your art, just PM me or make a post and it'll be gone faster than you can say Quick Meteor Meteor Meteor Meteor Meteor.



Bartz

Available jobs: Knight, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, Blue Mage

Default setup:

Freelancer
!White
!Blue

Sage Staff (alts: Main Gauche, Rune Axe, Excalibur, various element-boosters)
Crystal Shield
Ribbon (alt: Gold Hairpin)
Black Robe
Hermes Sandals

HP 2257 [2934 with HP+30%] {110%} {132%}
MP 327 [425 with MP+30%]
Str 54+5 = 59
Agl 41+5 = 46 {103%}
Vit 53+5 = 58
Mag 56+10 = 66

Attack 45
Defense 34 [22, with Gold Hairpin]
M. Defense 19
Evade 45 [59, with Main Gauche]
MEvade 30
PDur 1.13 [0.96], MDur 1.10
(with HP+30%: PDur 1.36 [1.15], MDur 1.32)

Note: If Bartz drops the Ribbon for a Gold Hairpin, he loses 1/14 of his magic damage, 1/10 of his physical damage and 5 Agility along with the listed 12 defence, but his MP costs are halved.

Abilities

Passives:
Cover (Knight) - Automatically takes all physical damage for party members below 1/8 max HP
Counter (Monk) - 50% chance to counter physicals with his physical

Attack: 280 magic damage (4690 vs. undead) [220 with Main Gauche] [3075 piercing with Rune Axe, 90% hit rate, costs 5 MP] [1870 holy with Excalibur]

!White
Holy: (20 MP) 4704 magical damage, holy-elemental (3024, if not using Sage Staff)
Curaga: (29 MP) Fully heals target. If multitargeted, heals 1260 to all targets.
Esuna: (10 MP) Heals all status effects
Blink: (6 MP) Inflicts Image, which blocks the next two physical hits.
Reflect: (15 MP) Inflicts Reflect. This wears off, but it lasts long enough (three-four turns?)
Protect: (3 MP) Inflicts Safe. Safe halves all incoming physical damage.
Shell: (5 MP) Inflicts Shell. Shell halves all incoming magical damage and halves incoming status odds.
Berserk: (8 MP) Inflicts Berserk. Unblockable.
Silence: (2 MP) Inflicts Mute, 75% base hit rate. Can wear off with time.
Mini: (5 MP) Inflicts Mini, 90% base hit rate. Mini drops defense to 0, Attack to 3 (practically, this means you won't be doing more than 1 damage to any endgame monster), and doubles evasion.
Confuse: (4 MP) Inflicts Confuse, 75% base hit rate.
Dispel: (12 MP) Removes positive status from target.
Arise: (50 MP) Revives with full HP.

!Blue (not silenceable, nor reflectable except where noted)
Aeroga: (24 MP) 1610 magical damage, wind elemental, reflectable (2590, with Air Knife)
1000 Needles: (25 MP) 1000 damage, fixed, ignores defense
Mind Blast: (6 MP) 1120 defence-piercing damage and always inflicts Paralysis. The paralysis lasts slightly longer than one turn.
Missile: (7 MP) Deals damage equal to 75% target's current HP, 75% base hit rate
Vampire: (2 MP) Drains half of missing HP from target, 99% base hit rate. GBA version makes this "all missing HP" instead.
White Wind: (28 MP) Heals entire party by amount equal to current HP
Mighty Guard: (72 MP) Inflicts Safe, Shell, and Float on all allies. Reflectable.
Moon Flute: (3 MP) Inflicts Berserk on all allies
Death Claw: (21 MP) Reduces target HP to single digits and inflicts paralyze, 66% base hit rate, misses Heavy-types.
Time Slip: (9 MP) Inflicts Sleep and Old, 90% base hit rate
Pond's Chorus: (5 MP) Inflicts Toad, 66% base hit rate
Liliputian Lyric: (5 MP) Inflicts Mini, 66% base hit rate
Flash: (7 MP) Inflicts Blind, 75% base hit rate. Darkness quarters accuracy.
Guard off: (19 MP) Halves target's defense and M. defense, 80% base hit rate
Magic Hammer: (3 MP) Halves target's current MP, 75% base hit rate

!Black (not the default, but is Bartz's best non-elemental/ITD magic damage and has a status or two which his default set misses. Numbers after the slash are with appropriate elemental rod only)
Flare: (39 MP) 3556 magical damage, non-elemental, pierces defense
Firaga: (25 MP) 2240/3528 magical damage, fire-elemental
Blizzaga: (25 MP) 2240/3528 magical damage, ice-elemental
Thundaga: (25 MP) 2240/3528 magical damage, lightning-elemental
Toad: (8 MP) Inflicts Toad, 80% base hit rate. Toad drops Attack to 3, Defense and Evade to 0, and renders the target unable to cast any spells but Toad.
Break: (15 MP) Inflicts petrify, 75% base hit rate.
Death: (29 MP) Inflicts instant death, 80% base hit rate.
Osmose: (1 MP) Drains 112 MP from target, defence-piercing, 99% base hit rate.

Guard
Nulls all physical damage until his next turn (not very useful thanks to Blink)

HP+30% (passive)
Bartz can drop one of his skillsets to raise his HP by 30%.

MP+30% (passive)
Bartz can drop one of his skillsets to raise his MP by 30%.

Double Grip (passive)
Bartz can double his physical damage at the expense of his shield. Notably a two-handed Rune Axe is his best damage, but not by enough to make it his default.


Comments: Bartz is above average speed with game-best durability (before opting to set HP+30%), with plenty of fatal status options (Mind Blast is the most deadly). Against the status/gravity immune he should dig in with his bevy of positive status and full healing. He can give up some stats to stretch his resources quite far indeed. His damage is pretty mediocre (4-5HKO) but could be worse. Heavy/Godlike.



Lenna

Available jobs: Berserker, Mystic Knight, Time Mage, Summoner, Red Mage, Mime

Default setup:

Freelancer (alt: Mime, with !Mimic but no Ribbon)
!Time
!Dualcast

Main Gauche (alts: Rune Axe, Excalibur)
Crystal Shield
Ribbon
Black Robe
Hermes Sandals

HP 2178 {106%}
MP 345
Str 46+5 = 51
Agl 40+5 = 45 {101.7%}
Vit 50+5 = 55
Mag 61+10 = 71

Attack 36
Defense 34 [22, with Gold Hairpin]
M. Defense 19
Evade 59 [45, without Main Gauche]
MEvade 30
PDur 1.09 [0.92], MDur 1.06

Note: If Lenna drops the Ribbon for a Gold Hairpin, she loses 1/14 of her magic damage, 1/17 of her physical damage and 5 Agility along with the listed 12 defence, but her MP costs are halved.

Abilities

Passives:
Magic Shell (Mystic Knight) - When lowered below 1/8 max HP, gain Shell status (halves magic damage and status hit rate) for rest of battle

Attack: 187 physical damage [2925 piercing with Rune Axe, 90% hit rate, costs 5 MP] [1615 holy with Excalibur]

!Time
Meteor: (42 MP) Deals 4 hits of non-elemental damage. Damage ranges from 350 to 2450. Average damage for entire attack is thus 5600. Each hit randomly targets an opponent, in a team setting. Max possible damage (matters due to Reset) is 9800.
Graviga: (18 MP) Deals 14/16 of opponent's current HP in damage, 99% base hit rate.
Quick: (77 MP) Immediately gives caster two free turns. If Quick is used on one of these free turns, it will fail.
Haste: (5 MP) Inflicts Haste. Haste doubles effective speed.
Regen: (3 MP) Inflicts Regen. On Lenna, this means 137 HP gained per turn.
Float: (10 MP) Inflicts Float. Float means immunity to ground-based attacks.
Return: (1 MP) Restarts battle.
Slow: (3 MP) Inflicts Slow, 95% base hit rate. Slow halves effective speed.
Stop: (8 MP) Inflicts Stop, 90% base hit rate. Lasts 2 turns.
Old: (4 MP) Inflicts Aging, 90% base hit rate. Old causes the target's Attack, Speed, and Level to gradually decrease to 1. This affects physical damage and sometimes magical damage.
Banish: (20 MP) Inflicts instant death, 50% base hit rate, misses Heavy types.
Void: (3 MP) Silent Lake effect, doesn't work on bosses.
Comet: (7 MP) Deals non-elemental magical damage ranging from 200 to 1400. Average is thus 800.
Hastega: (15 MP) Multitarget version of Haste.
Slowga: (9 MP) Multitarget version of Slow, 80% base hit rate.

!Dualcast (allows Lenna to cast two spells per action, from the list below. If she also sets !Time and/or !Summon, she can use those spells in her Dualcast, too)
Cura: (9 MP) Heals 675 damage
Protect: (3 MP) Inflicts Safe. Safe halves all incoming physical damage.
Sleep: (3 MP) Inflicts Sleep, 90% base hit rate.
Toad: (8 MP) Inflicts Toad, 80% base hit rate. Toad drops Attack to 3, Defense and Evade to 0, and renders the target unable to cast any spells but Toad.
Silence: (2 MP) Inflicts Mute, 75% base hit rate. Can wear off with time.
Mini: (5 MP) Inflicts Mini, 90% base hit rate. Mini drops defense to 0, Attack to 3 (practically, this means you won't be doing more than 1 damage to any endgame monster), and doubles evasion.
Confuse: (4 MP) Inflicts Confuse, 75% base hit rate.

!Summon (not default, but the spoiling options are notable. Post-slash damage is strengthened by a weapon)
Bahamut: (66 MP) 3375 magical damage, non-elemental.
Phoenix: (99 MP) 1200/1980 magical damage, fire-elemental. Also revives a dead ally to full HP and MP.
Shoat: (33 MP) Inflicts stone, 99% base hit rate.
Remora: (2 MP) Inflicts paralysis, 100% base hit rate. Paralysis wears off, but there's over a turn befor this happens so it can be spammed.
Odin: (48 MP) 80% chance of True Edge, inflicting unblockable instant death. If True Edge roll fails or opponent is heavy-type, deal 3450 ITE physical damage instead.
Golem: (18 MP) Casts a shield that absorbs all incoming physical attacks. The shield will take 3000 damage before disappearing.
Carbunkle: (45 MP) Casts reflect on entire party. This wears off, but it lasts long enough (three-four turns?)

!Call
Use a random summon at no MP cost. Not compatible with Dualcast.

!Spellblade (requires a sword or knife. Buffs the physical to have the following effect, and removes any previous weapon element or spellblade effect. Damage listed with Excalibur, since if she's using Spellblade for damage that's her weapon)
Flare: 4066 physical damage, pierces defence
Drain: Drains 1615 damage
Osmose: Drains 1/4 of target's current MP
Break: 100% chance of inflicting Stone on target if Attack command hits.
Silence: 100% chance of inflicting Mute on target if Attack command hits.
Sleep: 100% chance of inflicting Sleep on target if Attack command hits.
Poison: 100% chance of inflicting Poison on target if Attack command hits.
Firaga: Kill target instantly if weak to Fire. If target is weak to fire but Heavy-type, deal 8360 damage instead.
Blizzaga, Thundaga, Holy, Bio: As above, with different elements.

!Mimic (replaces the attack command in the Mime job)
Repeats last action at no MP cost. Dualcast counts as a single action for the purpose of Mimic, so e.g. Quick+Meteor, Meteor+Meteor, Mimic will result in five Meteors.


Comments: Dualcast + Quick + Meteor means an average of 28000 damage on her first turn. She can use Return to increase this even further. Unlike FF5 Time Mage she also has good stats, so yikes. This does use most of her MP, but she can go Mime to half her MP costs and/or use Mimic to stretch her resources further. With such ridiculous damage the rest of her skillset doesn't matter much, but there's some super-accurate status (Quick/Spellblade and Quick/Dualcast) and buffing in there too, albeit without the healing that Bartz has. Still uh she's insane. Godlike



Faris

Available jobs: Ninja, Ranger, Beastmaster, Geomancer, Bard

Default setup:

Freelancer
!Rapid Fire
!Sing

Rune Axe (alts: Main Gauche, Excalibur, Enhancer)
Rune Blade (alts: Crystal Shield, Holy Lance, Enhancer)
Ribbon
Black Robe
Hermes Sandals

HP 1753 {85%}
MP 304
Str 43+5 = 48
Agl 41+5 = 46 {103%}
Vit 34+5 = 39
Mag 50+13 = 63

Attack 71+50 (actually 81+70, with MP)
Defense 26 [34, with a shield]
M. Defense 19
Evade 0 [45, with a shield; 59, with Main Gauche as well]
MEvade 30
PDur 0.78 [0.88], MDur 0.85

Abilities

Passives:
Dual-Wield (Ninja) - Can equip a second one-handed weapon instead of a shield. Note that two weapon attacks trigger two counters, in FF5.

Attack: Depends a lot on her weapon! Remember that she can use two at once, so add these figures up. As she'll usually use Rapid Fire instead, this section isn't too important. Note that attacks with Rune weapons can vary by +/-50% of their base damage... this averages out pretty well with Rapid Fire, but less so on individual attacks of course. They are also partially defence-piercing (target's def matters only 25% as much as normal).

w/ Rune Axe: 2700 physical damage, 90% hit rate. Costs 5 MP. Once out of MP, this does 1105 instead.
w/ Rune Blade: 2304 physical damage. Costs 8 MP. Once out of MP, this does 748 instead.
w/ Excalibur/Holy Lance: 1615/1596 holy physical damage.
w/ Enhancer: 1309 physical damage.
w/ Main Gauche: 187 physical damage.

!Rapid Fire
Attack four times at half normal damage, except that the attacks become ITD and ITE. Each attack strikes a random enemy target. The extra attacks granted by Rapid Fire do not trigger extra counters, although 1-2 counters are still triggered by the initial attack as usual.

/w Rune Axe + Rune Blade: (1458+1260)x4 = 10872 physical damage. Costs 52 MP. Once out of MP, this does (568+400)x4 = 3872 instead.
/w Excalibur + Holy Lance: (990+981)x4 = 7884 holy physical damage.
/w Enhancer x2: 816x8 = 6528 physical damage.
/w Rune Axe + shield: 1458x4 = 5832 physical damage. Costs 20 MP. Once out of MP, this does 568x4 = 2272 instead.
/w Main Gauche + shield: 288x4 = 1152 physical damage.

Note: She can also mix and match a Rune Axe and a non-Rune weapon to consume MP more slowly. (The Axe is strictly better than the Blade, doing more damage and consuming less MP.)

!Sing (Silenceable magic. Not subject to Reflect.)
Alluring Air: Inflicts confuse, 99% base hit rate.
Romeo's Ballad: Inflicts stop, 99% base hit rate. Lasts about 3 turns (double that if you consider Auto-Haste, but way less against Heavy types).

!Throw (Throws something. Fumas are expensive, as a warning)
Fuma Shuriken: 6479 ITE physical damage
Flame/Water/Thunder Scroll: 1235 MT magic damage of appropriate element. The non-water scrolls can be strengthened with an appropriate elemental rod, doing 2015 damage instead.

!Catch/!Release
You can Catch a monster that's below 1/8 health, then Release it in a later fight. The monster will do an attack. OPB and requires pre-battle setup, so a big YMMV in how to take this, but I imagine most people would allow it. Monsters unavailable at endgame are starred, and I wouldn't allow those.

Great Dragon: (Fight) 9999 physical damage, ignores evade (one hit calculated as 975 + 9100 ITD)
Dragon Aevis: (Breath Wing) deals damage equal to 25% target's max HP, wind-elemental. Cannot be blocked or immuned in-game.
*Fairy Orc: (Curaga) Full healing.
Objet D'Art: (Break) Inflicts Stone, 75% base hit rate
Bandersnatch: (Blaster) Even odds of inflicting Paralysis or instant death, unblockable
Death Dealer: (Death) Inflicts instant death, 80% base hit rate.

!Image
Buffs self with Image, cancelling the next two physical hits.

!Control
Takes control of a monster, 40% hit rate (75% with a HypnoCrown, though that's one per game). Since the list of moves an enemy can use while controlled is completely arbitrary I generally suggest ignoring this.

!Gaia
Headache of a skillset, see the main stat topic for details. For magic damage, it's inferior to thrown scrolls, so the only use for this skillset is gravity.

!Hide
Become untargettable, but can only use !Show on own turns to remove this effect. Doesn't work in a duel; causes Faris to run instead.


Comments: Hit things in the face until they die. While her damage is much worse than Lenna's it's still easily second best in the cast (a 2HKO). Unfortunately she's a bit on the fragile side, especially while opting for a two-weapon build. She also has Sing's status attacks, Image, and one shot of big damage even if she goes for a shield, so there's that. Heavy.



Galuf/Krile

Galuf and Krile have identical claims to jobs, so there is no difference between them beyond a few stat points here and there. Since Krile is the endgame PC, I'm treating her stats and damage as the default (and they'll be the ones in the averages), with Galuf's in parentheses.

Available jobs: Samurai, Dragoon, Chemist, Dancer

Default setup:

Freelancer
!Zeninage
!Mix

Main Gauche (alts: Rune Axe, Holy Lance)
Crystal Shield
Ribbon
Black Robe (alt: Rainbow Dress)
Hermes Sandals

HP 1992 (2098) {97% (101%)}
MP 219 (208)
Str 44+5 = 49 (46+5 = 51)
Agl 33+5 = 38 (29+5 = 34) {93% (88.7%)}
Vit 43+5 = 48 (47+5 = 52)
Mag 27+10 = 37 (24+10 = 34)

Attack 36 [higher with other weapons]
Defense 34 [38, with Rainbow Dress]
M. Defense 19 [8, with Rainbow Dress]
Evade 69 [59, without Main Gauche]
MEvade 30 [14, with Rainbow Dress]
PDur 1.00 {1.04}, MDur 0.97 {1.01}

Note: If Krile (not Galuf) uses both a Rune Axe and Black Robe, her magic damage is increased by 11%.

Abilities

Passives:
Shiradori (Samurai) - Extra independent 25% chance to evade physicals (factored in)

Attack: 198 (187) physical damage. [2175 (2100) piercing with Rune Axe, 90% hit rate, costs 5 MP] [1512 holy, with Holy Lance]

!Zeninage
3750 physical damage MT, spends 2000 * (number of targets) in Gil. Very defence-subject.

!Mix (consumes two items to do stuff, all singletarget. Three lists, YMMV with what's legal)

(storebought only)
Water of Life: Inflicts Regen. On Krile, this is 120 HP regained per round. (130 for Galuf.)
X-Potion: Full healing.
Half Elixir: Full MP healing.
Sampson's Might: Raises level by 10, to a maximum of 255. Each use of this adds 1500 to Zeninage's damage, and adds 10% to status accuracy and evasion. All other damage rises just under linearly with level (so each use is 25% of base).
Restorative: Heals Aging, Sleep, Paralyze, Charm, Berserk, Mute
Elemental Power: Boosts damage with elemental magic by 50%. Doesn't affect anything Galuf/Krile has.
Levitate: Inflicts Float.
Life Shield: Grants instant death immunity.
Resist Fire: Grants fire absorption
Resist Ice: Grants ice absorption
Resist Thunder: Grants lightning absorption
Kiss of Blessing: Inflicts Berserk, Image, and Haste. Ignores immunities to any of the statuses in the SNES/PSX versions of the game.
Resurrection: Revive with full HP and MP
Lamia's Kiss: Inflicts Confuse, perfect accuracy

(using items which are common drops from two very specific enemies)
Succubus Kiss: Drains 2070 damage. 99% base hit rate.
Dragon Breath: Deals damage equal to caster's current HP, fire/ice/lightning-elemental
Holy Breath: Deals damage equal to caster's current HP, holy-elemental
Dragon Shield: Grants immunity to fire, ice, and lightning
Dragon Armor: Inflicts Reflect, Shell, Safe, Regen
Panacea: Heals all status ailments
Dark Sigh: Inflicts Blind and Confuse, unblockable
Failure: Deals damage equal to 25% target's current HP, also inflicts Charm, unblockable
Split Shell: Halves target's defense and M. defense, unblockable
Bacchus's Wine: Inflicts Berserk, unblockable
Dragon's Kiss: Turns target into a Dragon and a Heavy-type target.
Goliath Tonic: Doubles max and current HP (note: this requires an Elixir in addition)

(using Dark Matters, which are quite difficult to acquire)
Shadow Flare: 2160 magical damage, non-elemental, pierces defense
Dark Ether: Reduces target's current MP by 75%
Death Potion: Inflicts instant death, unblockable
Toad's Kiss: Inflicts Toad, unblockable
Dark Gas: Inflicts Blind, 99% base hit rate

!Iainuki
Instant death, 85% base hit rate using the magical status formula. Requires a 0.5-turn charge time, misses heavy types.

!Jump
When used with Holy Lance, does 3024 holy physical damage, ITE. Requires a one-turn charge time, during which time Galuf or Krile is invincible. With a non-spear weapon this does the same damage as a normal attack and thus is virtually useless.

!Lance
Drains 180 HP and 36 MP from the target. Magical damage (the MP component is piercing).

!Drink (consume an inexpensive storebought item for each effect, self only)
Goliath Tonic: Doubles max HP and current HP
Speed Shake: Inflicts Haste
Protect Drink: Inflicts Protect
Hero Cocktail: Raises level by 10, to a maximum of 255. Each use of this adds 1500 to Zeninage's damage, and adds 10% to status accuracy and evasion. All other damage rises just under linearly with level (so each use is 25% of base).

!Dance (chooses one effect from the following list, with equal probability. If a Rainbow Dress is equipped, Sword Dance instead has a 50% chance to kick in, and Tempting Tango will not occur)
Sword Dance (Rune Axe): 9048 ITE physical damage, costs 5 MP
Jitterbug Duet: Drains 180 HP from target, magical.
Mystery Waltz: Drains 72 MP from target, magical piercing.
Tempting Tango: Inflicts confuse, perfect hit rate.
AVERAGE: 4569 damage + 45 HP healing + 18 MP drain with Rune Axe/Rainbow Dress. No other setup should set Dance.


Comments: Well they have the worst damage (opting for Sword Dance helps, but not enough to be worth it normally), but has a bunch of buffs, healing, and status options. The one job set that ends up below average speed also hurts. Probably the worst dueller of the cast, but should still manage Heavy, especially if one allows more Mix stuff than I do.


AVERAGES

All averages exclude Galuf, along with any bracketed setups.

Single-action, spammable damage: Lenna (11200) > Faris (10872) > Bartz (4704) > [Dancer Galuf/Krile (4569)] > Galuf = Krile (3750)
Avg: 7631
Kill point: 19078

Much like the original FF5 stat topic, this does not include potential nonsense with Quick. Interestingly, a 3-turn damage average is similar, as Lenna can't really average more than this over 3 turns without shifting to a Gold Hairpin.

HP: [HP+30% Bartz (2934)] > Bartz (2257) > Lenna (2178) > Galuf (2098) > Krile (1992) > Faris (1753)
Avg: 2054

MP: [MP+30% Bartz (425)] > Lenna (345) > Bartz (327) > Faris (304) > Krile (219) > Galuf (208)
Avg: 299

Agl: Bartz = Faris (46) > Lenna (45) > [Gold Hairpin Bartz (41)] > [Gold Hairpin Lenna (40)] > Krile (38) > Galuf (34)
Avg: 43.75

Def: [Rainbow Dress Galuf/Krile (38)] > Everyone else (34) > Faris (26)
Avg: 32

MDef: Everyone else (19) > [Rainbow Dress Galuf/Krile (8)]
Avg: 19 (obviously)

Evade: Galuf = Krile (69) > Lenna (59) > Bartz (45) > Faris (0)
Avg: 43

14

Unranked Games / Star Ocean: The Last Hope

« on: April 26, 2013, 07:04:45 AM »

Disclaimer #1: This stat topic was made using the North American XBox 360 version of the game. There may be some discrepencies with international.

Disclaimer #2: The stat topic will include the permanent PCs and (eventually) the final boss. I will not be including stats for the temp/NG+ PC, although if you read on you'll learn who the temp is. Read at your own risk, as usual.

Still to come:
-Rush Combos
-maybe some other stuff


Averages up top

One-turn damage: 30137 (kill point: 73541)
Three-turn damage (with Mindflare: 33193 (kill point: 82983)
HP (no HP boost): 17921
Def: 1094


Mechanics

SO4 damage formula is pretty simple, so let's start there.

Physical damage = (ATK*2-DEF)*(2/3)*Multiplier*Combo bonus
Magic damage = INT*Multiplier*Combo bonus

Stats and multipliers will of course be provided in the stats themselves.

Besides ATK, DEF, and INT, the game has four other core stats. HP and MP are obvious, working like most other games, although it bears mentioning that SO4 characters don't die when their MP hits zero unlike in the game's predecessor. The remaining two stats, HIT and GRD, govern accuracy and evasion. Evasion happens notably more often than it did in SO3, but I'm still not certain how much respect it deserves given that the real way to evade attacks remains by getting away from them, and there are a variety of situations where evasion via GRD won't work. Anyway, these stats only govern physical attacks... magic attacks will never be evaded via HIT/GRD.


Skills

Most skills can be levelled from 1 to 10 (a few are permanently at level 1). All skills discussed in this thread will be assumed to be max level. It's fairly easy for a PC to max all DL-relevant skills... possibly all skills period depending on how much party SP is amassed.

There are five types of skills in SO4:
-Skills which, once learned, are permanently in effect for the character. Most of these are field skills (such as Bacchus' mining ability) but notably include Chain Combos, which allows combos. It's the only DL relevant one and is considered for everyone because otherwise damage will look nothing like in-game.
-Passive battle skills. The PC can take set two of these, but they cost CP to do so. Many passive battle skills are universal, but some are semi-unique. The main relevant one usable by two PCs is Fast Cast, which is assumed. Critical Hit and Energy Shield have four legal users and are much more questionable. In-game there's a good chance you'll use HP Boost, which is universal but storebought and eats one of the two slots.
-Usable battle skills. These quick-acting abilities are activated from the menu. Most are usable by 3-5 PCs. The notable ones for duelling: 3 users = Focus, Mindflare. 4 = Convert. 5 = Berserk. Emergency Repairs is completely unique and pretty obviously legal.
-Symbols (spells). These can be cast from the menu. They each have casting times, which will be noted. Additionally, many attack spells can be set as chainable attacks in combos. Spells that can be used this way ALWAYS should (they resolve much more quickly), so only these reduced casting times will be noted.
-Special arts. Physical skills, essentially, they use MP and get turned off by silence. They can also be chained into combos.


Combos and CP

The Chain Combos skill book allows special arts and some attack spells to be chained one after another. There are three skills that are mapped to the left trigger, and three to the right. Skills can (and often should be) repeated. Attacks beyond the first receive a multiplier, the size of which depends on how far into the combo the skill is and the level of the Chain Combos skill. Up to six skills can be chained in this manner. At max level, the multipliers are 160%, 180%, 200%, 240%, and 280%.

All attacks set in this manner consume CP, which will be noted with the attack. At endgame levels, PCs have 19 CP to distribute between up to 6 attacks and two passive battle skills. Note that CP assignment can be changed mid-battle, should you allow that, though not mid-combo (for fairly obvious reasons).

Note that while six-part combos are possible in theory, the buildup of enemy Rush Mode makes them unlikely in practice. The way I played the game, I typically used three-part combos, as they can be easily used by simply using one trigger three times (allowing you to have two different ones without going to the Setup menu), and such combos are much more workable. I'll list damage with both three-part combos, which I'll personally use, and six-part ones for those interested. If you prefer to vote without combos at all, you can of course do that pretty easily too.


Rush Mode

PCs and enemies both have a Rush gauge, which is akin to a limit gauge. It begins each fight at 0, and is filled up in one of three ways:

1. Taking damage. The amount gained depends on the enemy attack, but is usually 15 per hit, or 5 per hit for attacks with lots of hits.

2. Dealing damage. The amount gained per hit depends on the attack used. Specifics will be noted with each attack.

3. Blindside charging. Up to 20 can be gained per blindside charge.

The gauge will begin to slowly decrease after a few seconds of not going up (i.e. not doing any of the three above things).

If the gauge reaches 100, the character can enter Rush Mode, which lasts approximately 10 seconds by default. Rush Mode raises the character's running speed by about 25%, and their critical hit rate significantly. It also makes them immune to interruptions; that is, enemy attacks will not disrupt theirs. During Rush Mode, the character's rush gauge will continuously decrease, and can not normally be increased by any of the above three methods. When it reaches 0, the mode ends.

Additionally, during Rush Mode, the PC can make use of Rush Combos. These need testing.


Blindsides

Unique to Star Ocean 4, blindsides are essentially an evade-and-counter mechanic. PCs can enter a stance called a blindside charge, during which he or she can not move or act, but his or her rush gauge will automatically go up. If an enemy attempts to attack the PC during this time, a timed hit will allow the PC to pull off a blindside, moving to behind the enemy. This both causes the enemy to lose track of the PC, and leaves them defenseless for a couple seconds, during which all attacks made against them are critical hits.

Blindside charging can not be done indefinitely; after a few seconds (when 20 rush gauge is accumulated), the stance will break and the PC will be stunned. However, the PC can end the stance, then begin it again shortly thereafter at no penalty.

In a duel against a presumably intelligent foe, blindsiding is of limited use, likely limited to countering called shots such as Kain's Jump.


BEAT

BEAT (Battle Enhancement Attribute System) refers to one of two paths characters can level along. There are two systems, BEAT:S and BEAT:B. Each system can be levelled up for a character by having that character participate in battles, starting at Level 1 and reaching a maximum of Level 20. The exp value of the battles is not relevant to levelling BEAT, just the total number of battles fought. The number of battles required to reach each level, compared to the previous, is:

Level 2: 6
Level 3: 8 (14 total)
Level 4: 10 (24 total)
Level 5: 12 (36 total)
etc.

It takes (n^2 + 5*n) battles to reach Level n+1. Thus, it takes 456 battles to reach BEAT level 20 in one path. The PC can switch which path he or she is on at any time, and the battles used towards the other path are saved.

In BEAT:S (offensive), the character gains offensive stats and gains passive abilities related to blindsiding. The passive abilities gained are largely DL useless (as is blindsiding itself), so I won't list them here. The stat boosts certainly are useful, however, and depend on the current Beat Level (BLv). They are:

ATK is increased by BLv*5
INT is increased by BLv*5
HIT is increased by BLv*4 - 2

In BEAT:B (defensive), the character gains defensive stats and gains passive abilities related to Rush Mode. The stat boosts and passive abilities gained are as follows:

Max HP is increase by BLv % of current total
DEF is increased by BLv*5
GRD is increased by BLv*4 - 2

-Critical hit rate boost during Rush Mode is increased (requires BLv 1)
-Rush gauge increases are multiplied by 1.5 (requires BLv 5)
-MP cost -25% during Rush Mode (requires BLv 9)
-Rush gauge decrease rate down (requires BLv 13)
-Damage -5% in Rush Mode (BLv 17)
-Rush gauge can be increased during Rush Mode (BLv 20)

If a character switches between modes, all the stat boosts and passive abilities are (temporarily) lost, but they are restored if the character switches back to that mode. There is a also third mode, BEAT:N. Characters can not gain BEAT levels in this mode, but it can be set as an option. While in this mode, no progress can be made on either BEAT:B or BEAT:S; however, the character gains the stat boosts from both modes. The passive abilities are not carried over.

In a duel, BEAT:N will likely be the preferred mode, unless a character plans to win a long, stalling match involving Rush Mode, in which case BEAT:B may be employed, trading offence for a more potent and accessable Rush Mode.

For determining DL Beat Level, I assumed that characters had a certain number of battles fought (based on when they joined the party) and allow them to choose their levels that result in optimum stats, which is usually some balance of the two modes, since each has diminishing returns to how the levelling of each works. In the case of an odd number being available, I gave the extra level to BEAT:B since the HP+DEF boost is generally slightly more potent than offence alone. The number of battles I assumed is as follows:

Edge: 700
Reimi: 690
Lymle: 630
Bacchus: 500
Meracle: 430
Myuria: 380
Sarah: 240
Arumat: 380-670 (taken as 525)

Arumat inherits the BEAT levels that have been built up by Faize. If Faize is used constantly from the time he joins, the highest number will be the relevant one. If Faize is benched immediately upon gaining five PCs, the minimum number will be the relevant one (i.e. Arumat's own battles + the ones in which Faize is effectively forced). I decided to split the difference for the purpose of the stat topic. As a data point, Faize is usually considered one of the weaker PCs (pure attack mage with no healing and relatively low INT), and although he does have one very potent spell. YMMV of course with how to deal with this.


Assumptions

The stat topic takes endgame level as 1.5 million exp, which is a nice round number and was roughly where my highest-level people ended up. It results in an endgame level of 63. However, some PCs join underlevelled, and if used equally, will never make the exp gap up (although the level gap does close, due to the exp curve). Lymle and Sarah both join about 10000 exp underlevelled, but by endgame this is so small a gap that they still hit Level 63. For Sarah the situation is a bit more problematic; she joins with a 168,000 exp deficit. Arumat, meanwhile, takes over his exp from Faize, so the situation with BEAT levels applies here too. If Faize is benched immediately, Arumat will join 260,000 exp down, while if Faize is never benched, Arumat will be up to speed. Again I will split the difference and treat Arumat as 130,000 exp down. The end result is that both Sarah and Arumat are only Level 61, a small disadvantage but one which bears noting.

This stat topic does not include moves gained during the aftergame, or at levels past the ones used in this topic. I may add those later, if there is interest.

I do not personally consider passive skills which are usable by four or more people. In-game you don't have enough of these to go around until late, and they all compete with HP Boost anyway. If there's significant interest I can add their effects. I don't think I consider HP Boost either, although its effect will be listed as a point of interest. Three figures will be shown for final HP: one without HP boost, one at half effect (Level 7, +4900 HP), and one at full effect (Level 10, +10000 HP). Finally, when noting 6-part combos, I'll assume a CP limit which is reduced by the use of HP Boost (2 CP), just because typically you will use some CP on passives and I wanted to reflect this. Fast Cast, the only clearly legal passive which is actually useful (i.e. not Steal or Pride), is also assumed for Lymle and Myuria, and it also costs 2 CP.

Of legal usable battle skills, I leave that up to the individual voter to decide (I'm still deciding where my own personal cutoff is). The most influential on the stat topic, however, is Mindflare. Unlike Focus, Enhance, and Enlighten (which have too small an effect), or Berserk (which comes with a colossal downside), Mindflare has a clear effect on a PC's three-turn average damage, giving up damage for one turn to double it for the next two. I definitely consider Mindflare's effect on the three-turn average, though if you do ban the skill, the average will drop.

The stat topic is taken against the average final dungeon enemy defence of 1306, which subtracts 2/3 that number off of base physical damage. Most tests for comboability were done against the last three enemies in the game: the Dark Clown, the Chaotic Cell, and the Dark Ape. The effect of PC defence is scaled against the final boss, who has above average ATK but not dramatically.

For equipment, well... with a small number of exceptions (which are excluded), every weapon and armour is either unique to one character or usable by at most three. This makes most things legal, provided it is possible to get more than one of the armours usable by 2 or more people (which is everyone's armours except those of Bacchus). The only thing I ended up banning was equipment created from Red Dragon Scales. These are a rare drop from a final dungeon enemy (I didn't get any) and you need six of them for everyone. Additionally, the equipment they make has better stats than any other equipment. If allowed, Edge and Arumat get fire absorption and significantly better defence, and Meracle's damage increases by a little over 50%. I don't find these advantages reflective of in-game (the Meracle weapon gained this way has +400 atk on the next best, which is NOT an advantage Meracle enjoys at any other point, maingame or aftergame).

You could also quibble with the colosseum equipment (five people want equipment from there, and it would take a lot of time to get everything) but I decided to allow it in no small part because the main thing it does is improve the durability of long-range characters, who frankly have far better durability than the DL represents them as having anyway. The one short-range character who benefits from this, Meracle, well, it's a makeup call for her being the most hurt by the call above.

I've ignored accessories; there are two types, wrist and neck, and PCs can equip one of each. Unlike weapons and armour these are all universal. Statusblockers occupy the neck slot. It so happens that they also grant the best (small) raw stats of any storebought neck accessories, so the cast can equip one (and only one) at no real penalty.


Status Effects

SO4 has the following status effects. Some are not usable by PCs, and hence less important to this stat topic, they will have less detailed descriptions.

-Poison: The character takes 1% HP damage every 2 seconds. This does not interrupt the character's actions.
-Stun: The character is briefly stunned, unable to move, act, or avoid attacks. Lasts a few seconds. If PC inflicts stun during a combo, he or she has time to immediately end the combo and begin a new one before the target recovers from stun. This is a strategy for a couple PCs.
-Freeze: Identical to Stun, but with one big difference. If a frozen target is hit with a non-ice attack (physical or magic), he or she dies immediately. Again, a PC inflicting freeze via combo will have time to drop the combo and use a fatal attack.
-Paralysis: Stun, with a far longer duration. (Not sure it even wears off with time.)
-Silence: Standard RPG silence, it affects both symbology and special arts. Permanent.
-Fog: The character no longer locks onto enemies and must aim manually.
-Curse: The character takes 1% MP damage every 3 seconds. Unlike poison, this damage also stuns the target briefly when it kicks in, making combos of significant length impossible outside Rush Mode.
-Pumpkin: The character is transformed into a pumpkin, which can move but not act in any way. Lasts ~30 seconds (not tested precisely). If applied, it removes all other status effects (positive and negative).
-Void: When this status is inflicted, all positive status is dispelled from the target, and the target becomes immune to positive status as long as Void persists. Lasts 60 seconds.

Positive status is a bit different. There are two types. The following are all stackable (meaning you can have more than one instance of the status active, and the effects stack additively). All last 60 seconds.
-Enhance: Raises ATK by 30% of base.
-Enlighten: Raises INT by 30% of base.
-Enshelter: Raises DEF by 30% of base.
-Angel Feather: Raises ATK, INT, HIT, GRD, and DEF, by 15% of base.
-Reflection: Raises all elemental resistances by 15% raw. (So if a character already has 40% fire resist, it becomes 55%.)
-Sacred Pain: Lowers all elemental resistances by 20% raw. (Yes, this one isn't really positive, but you'll see what I class it here in a moment.)

The second group never stacks (though they do stack with the above, when they affect the same stat), and last 30 seconds.
-Berserk: Raises ATK by 100% of base. Doubles all damage received (physical and otherwise).
-Mindflare: Raises INT by 100% of base. Triples all MP costs (even if INT is not used for the spell being cast).
-Focus: Raises critical hit rate by 20%.
-Convert: Converts 1.5% mHP into 2/3 that number in MP, twice a second. Will never kill the PC. Unlike the others, this has a slightly different duration: it lasts until it would be fatal, OR until the character's HP is healed. Due to the different scales or HP and MP (HP is way, way higher), this is extremely potent MP regeneration.
-Symbolic Weapon: Regular attacks cause the character to regain MP. Unlike the others on this list, lasts 60 seconds.

Now, for all the statuses above listed as positive (including Sacred Pain), there is a hard limit of four statuses per character. Multiple uses of stackable statuses each count individually towards this limit, so, for instance, a PC could have Mindflare, Convert, and two Enlightens active at once, but nothing more. If a fifth positive status is inflicted, the oldest one is immediately removed.

For status resistance, the PCs can equip a statusblocker which blocks one of the following:
Poison, Stun, Freeze, Paralysis, Silence, Pumpkin (transformation)

The stat hit which accompanies this is never more than 12 Def, i.e. not worth noting.


Speed

Speed in ARPGs is a tricky beast. I've tried to quantify it as best I can here. First of all, every PC has a running speed which is crucial for getting into position to safely attack the enemy. Running speeds are listed along with stats, and is the time it takes the PC to make a full circuit of the battlefield used in the indoor areas of the final dungeon (thus, lower times are better).

Secondly, moves take time to resolve. For any non-melee attack, the time listed is the time between pressing the button to confirm the attack (or support ability) and the ability dealing its first points of damage (stunning the enemy) or resolving its effect. Note that in the case of symbology, different PCs may have very different times to use the same spells, as base casting times (likely due to animation time) vary considerably. In general, Arumat ~= Edge > Myuria ~= Sarah > Lymle for casting time. When Fast Cast is considered for menu spells, the inequality becomes Myuria > Arumat ~= Edge ~= Lymle > Sarah.

For converting speed to a CTB system, I have adopted the following convention: first of all, relative running speed is used as a base, since it affects everything. Speed multipliers for individual moves are calculated by the charge time of the move, +0.8 seconds (to reflect the natural reaction time between moves), compared to the average charge time for the PCs' key attacking moves (which is 1.8 seconds, out of the five PCs whose primary offence is ranged). Melee moves are treated as average (although a few which are unusually slow are noted). You could see them as either faster or slower readilly enough. A list of resulting effective speeds under this interp will be given alongside the averages, after the entries for the individual PCs.

Unless otherwise noted, all spells are long range, and all physical attacks are short range (plenty of exceptions to the latter). Some attacks are also noted as medium range, which is definitely not melee but means the PC does have to move in moderately close to use it.

Durations for various effects are listed in seconds. If you take the view I do of three-turn combos, then I would estimate a turn at around 10 seconds, though it does vary by moves used of course.


Anyway, on with the PCs!

15

Tournaments / Fire Emblem in the DL: a questionnaire

« on: March 05, 2013, 06:22:37 AM »

Fire Emblem is a series which has led to many different views and debates over those views over the years. Now, some eight or so years after the game first entered DL matches, I'm curious to see where people stand on some of these issues now.

This is an informal questionnaire. I'm doing this mostly for general interest, though also partly to help me with some decisions with the FE13 stat topic. If I could get as many people as possible to provide even short answers for the first two questions in particular, that would be of great help. Beyond that, share what you will.

Importanant disclaimer: One thing this thread is not for is attacking the views of others. Debating is okay as long as both participants are up for it, but otherwise, just let the interpretations of others be. I want everyone to be able to weigh in without being worried about someone jumping down their throat.

Anyway, the questions!

1. Counters

Do you see FE characters countering?

If yes, under what circumstances? (e.g. whenever they could counter in-game, or whenever they can counter and they themselves would not be countered in-game, etc.) How about against multitarget attacks or pure status?

2. Doubling (in the FE sense)

Do you see FE characters doubling and/or being doubled in the DL?

If yes, what do you check to decide if they double? The average of their own cast? The average of enemy stats? Is this modified by the target's speed? (or some other stat, such as evade)

If no, do you account for doubling in another way, e.g. by multiplying damage by the proportion of enemies the PC doubles in-game? (and a similar hack for durability)

3. Initiative and speed (in the non-FE sense)

When assigning (non-FE) speed to FE characters, are they all average speed, or do they vary? If the former, do you use some method of tiebreaks to decide how they deal with average speed opponents?

If yes to either of the previous questions, what to you use to determine speed/initiative? Their threat range? (move + attack range) Their FE speed stat? etc.

4. Other (optional)

Anything else you want to weigh in on is fine, such as:
-equal exp vs. fixed level
-evasion
-criticals
-switching between classes match-by-match (FE8 and FE13)
-laguz interpretations, especially for FE10
-excluding people from averages (dancers? FE9 laguz royals? FE10 laguz in general? Specific problem PCs such as Myrrh, Donnel, etc.?)

16

Discussion / Elfboy's 2012 Game Retrospectives

« on: January 02, 2013, 06:34:50 PM »

Same thing I've done for the last two years. In this thread, I take a look back at every new game I've played this year, from worst to best, and talk about what I liked and disliked about them. I'll try to post one of these every day or two, and discussion is always encouraged.

17

Unranked Games / Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (PSP)

« on: October 02, 2012, 07:19:38 AM »

Introduction

Tactics Ogre is a strategy RPG with a class system, and is the predecessor of Final Fantasy Tactics (though the PSP version, of which this is a stat topic of, is of course a fair bit more recent). It has a few key differences, though, the first of which is that its mechanics are much more opaque. It's also a game played along three splitpaths, so I was unable to collect all of them. Instead, this represents 13 PCs that I raised on one playthrough of Chaos route. Two more playthroughs will be needed to collect everyone; for now, the stat topic is incomplete.

PCs in this topic are taken at Level 20 (except where noted), which is what I was three battles from the end of the game (i.e. before the last battle against non-boss enemies). Damage is tested against the enemies of said map, which include 2 Terror Knights, 2 Dragoons, 2 Swordmasters, 1 Knight, 1 Fusilier, 1 Wizard, 1 Warlock, and 1 Cleric... a decent overall mix of the human enemies faced in-game, at least.

It should be noted that Level 20 is definitely on the low end. Although I did do some sidequests/optional battles, the low level is mostly explained by minimal doubling up on classes, and possibly by Chaos route being relatively light on Exp (I certainly ended up a bit higher on Law). There's a few places that level difference might matter. In particular, the healers are all one level away from Heal III, which while not a game-changer due to its MP cost, is a nice option to have. I'd almost certainly allow that. Valkyries are one level from L3 attack spells, which... probably aren't worth caring about, and I didn't think to buy any to test, but know that they're there. Catiua is five levels from Spiritsurge III which she'd really like but this is considerably less reasonable.

Turns, MP, and TP

TO's turn system is CTB. PCs have a stat called "RT". If a PC has x RT, then at start of the battle, they are x clockticks from their first turn. Thus, the lower this is, the faster they are. If a PC takes no action on their turn, then their next turn is set x clockticks away. However, if they move or take action, their next turn is pushed further away; this is what the "RT +20", etc., means after each action. Taking multiple actions in one turn (easily doable with TP-consuming free actions) causes all the penalties to be stacked at once. Moving also adds a penalty of 3 to 5 +RT per panel moved, but I'll be ignoring this for the stat topic.

Both MP and TP start the battle at 0. Standard MP gains are 2 MP for every 18 clockticks. You have to wait the full 18 clockticks to get the MP. Most characters thus get 8-12 MP per turn depending on speed and actions (low end before turn 1, higher before subsequent turns).

Standard TP gains are 2 TP for every 20 clockticks. Most characters thus get 6-12 TP per turn depending on speed and actions, as above. Additionally, TP is granted for physical damage dealt and received (excluding finishers)... roughly 0.25 TP per point dealt and 0.4 TP per point received, although there's randomisation here. This builds up much more quickly than the over-time version... characters can very easily reach 100 TP if they take substantial physical damage. e.g. 175 damage received + 50 damage dealt will yield enough for a turn 2 finisher.

MP and Items

Mages are badly reliant on MP to do anything, but start at 0 MP. I toss them a bone and let them use Magic Herbs, which are storebought, cost +11 RT, and heal 25 MP, which at least gives them a push to get started. You could also give them a free turn of MP (see above for what that means), which honestly, they'd like more, since they'll be able to do something on turn 1.

Skills

I've given characters all skills
(a) which are unique or semi-unique to their class, such as Mighty Impact (Warrior) and Reflect Damage (Wizard and Cleric).
(b) which they start with, upgraded to the max their level allows (e.g. Counterattack I becomes Counterattack II).

An exception to this is basic stat-boosting skills. These would make a big difference, but starting with them or not is a pointless distinction in-game. As such, I do NOT consider these skills. The exception is Strengthen, Spellcraft, Truestrike, Trueflight, and Spellstrike (skills which govern damage and accuracy), which I consider for everyone as it gives a better image of what in-game damage looks like. Some classes benefit from these skills more than others, and I have no issue reflecting that in the DL.

Finally, there's Denam, who starts with no skills at all. I decided to give him his choice of weapons (and an accompanying weapon skill), and guessed that daggers would be the best choice. I now I think this was a mistake and that he should have a sword instead because Rending Gale is just that damn good, easily worth a few points in speed. I may look into extrapolating what his stats and damage would look like with that.

Damage and defences

Characters have differing levels of blunt/slash/pierce defence granted by their armour, but trying to figure it out with how weird TO damage is is something I'm not going to try right now. Just know that however much role they play, it is LESS important than the roles of class modifiers to damage, so it can be difficult to notice in-game in many cases.

All elemental spells inflict "averse" status for that element at a high rate. This makes the target weak to that element... about an extra 1/3 damage taken, and lasts for two more rounds by the person who inflicted it, typically. Highly relevant for mages. As far as I'm aware nothing immunes the averse status. A PC can only have one averse status at a time; applying a second erases the first.

To calculate durability, I considered the PCs damaging each other. I have found similar trends in how enemies damage PCs from my testing there, and it's much easier to test PC vs. PC (unless the enemy has counters, and that only works for physicals), so I did that. There's some margin for error. Obviously, and though this goes for all stats it's particularly important for durability, the durability figures listed here are based on the PCs collected so far, and may fluctuate notably when more figures are collected.

The stats listed as "Eff Def" and "Eff MDef" do not include HP, and only consider raw damage taken (higher = less damage). The stats listed as "Pdur" and "Mdur" include HP. Use the former for calculating TP gains, and the latter for standard durability.

Evasion and accuracy

Evasion is something I haven't tested much, but it does exist. Canopus in particular has a fair bit (the only thing he ends up good at in the DL, sadly), but Arycelle, the Valkyries, and the White Knights are decent at it too. The "Avoid" stat gives a bit of a hint but the truth may easily be more complicated in that delightful Tactics Ogre way.

As for accuracy, due to my assumption of Truestrike/Trueflight/Spellstrike, PCs don't have trouble hitting, so I have little to say there. The exception is the staff-users who have lots of trouble, partly due to low weapon levels and partly due to their innately bad weapon-related stats.

Averages up top

HP: 220
Three-turn damage: 45
Kill point: 113
RT: 95 (clockticks until first turn)
Later-turn RT: 95+26.33 = 121.33 (clockticks until subsequent turns)
Clockticks at which average turns occur: 95, 216, 338, 459, 580...

18

RPG Stats Forum / Final Fantasy XIII bosses

« on: April 29, 2012, 05:58:56 AM »

I'm making this a separate topic from the main FF13 PC thread because that one is already quite lengthy due to discussion.

*FF13 spoilers, obviously*


For now, this thread only includes Cid (since he's in CK's tournament), but I may get others as time allows. They're a tricky bunch to test and scale so this will be a slow project.

Offensively, FF13 bosses are straightforward enough, outside of perhaps trying to judge their turns. I'll provide speed notes as best I can. Note that bosses use several attacks off a single ATB gauge similar to the way PCs can, and I will indicate multiple attacks used in a combo with a slash, or with a multipler. So, Attack/Ruin x2 means one attack, followed by two Ruins.

Defensively they are trickier, because of how the chain system. There are three ways to look at their HP. The simplest is to scale them against 3 Commandos smashing them in the face, but this leads to a significantly inflated HP score, because this is not in fact the optimum way to do damage in FF13 long-term. I don't recommend using this, but I'll provide the base average damage anyway for reference.

The second way is to build chain for a while (often until the stagger point, although the exact break-even point may vary), THEN switch to damage-dealing mode. For this method, I have decided to scale damage against the boss' chain resistance and stagger point. Yes, I could scale it against randoms instead, but not only is that more effort, it would mean that I would have to find a separate way to reflect the boss' chain resistance. Since chain resistance is hugely important for an FF13 enemy's durability, I felt it made more sense to factor it in directly in this way.

The third way is to include debuffs and buffs, which are quite potent, but only certain PCs have them. For Chapter 10-11 bosses, I have decided to include Bravery/Faith (available to both Sazh and Lightning) and Deprotect/Deshell (available to Vanille, Lightning, Sazh, and in C11, Fang), but not the more limited Haste or Imperil. It felt like a reasonable balance. The Bravery/Faith turn will also be used to apply a second buff, which only matters for chain reasons. I'll scale debuffs against debuff resistance of the target, which is generally a shaky view but I think in FF13's case it makes the most sense. YMMV, use the numbers as you see fit as always! Anyway.

As always, all scaling assumes full offence, i.e. the boss just sits there and takes damage; it does not factor in any buffs the boss might use, nor any need the PCs may have to heal or reduce damage.




Cid Raines
"My will is my own! My will is my strength!"

PC stats for Cid

Average HP: ~1650
Average offence: ~380

Average COM damage: 3372
Average RAV chain vs. Cid: +5.4% (+6.8% with two buffs and two debuffs)

Optimum offence, including chain: 13 rounds of RAV/RAV/RAV (to Stagger), 3 rounds of COM/COM/COM = fatal damage in 46.35 PC turns (5.30 PCHP)

Optimum offence, including chain and SYN/SAB: Three rounds of RAV/SAB/SYN, two rounds of RAV/RAV/RAV, five rounds of COM/COM/COM = fatal damage in 28.14 PC turns (3.22 PCHP)


Cid's stats and attacks

HP: 226,800
Chain resistance: 90 (stagger point: 300%)

Immune to Daze and Death. 90% resistance to Pain and Fog. 30% resistance to Curse. 0% resistance to Provoke and Dispel. 70% resistance to everything else.

Speed notes: Probably above average, but not dramatically... he tends to get turns more rapidly than PCs. I'd guess around 110-120% but this is definitely a rough estimate. His physical attack combos take a while to resolve, but they tie up his target so there's no real gain for them... although the distinction may matter in a team fight. For status timers, note that a "round" is about 8 seconds at this point.

Cid has four forms: Offensive, Defensive, Recovery, and Seraphic. He can switch between the first three at will, though doing so takes approximately half a turn. He must do this to start the battle as well, which causes his first attacking turn to lag a bit.

Offensive Shift
Attack: 655 physical damage over 5 hits
Ruin x3: 489 magic damage over 3 hits
Ruinga: 361 magic damage, large AoE

Defensive Shift
Guard: Damage received reduced by 90% while stance lasts

Recovery Shift
Cure x4: 1368 healing (0.6%) over 4 hits
Esuna: Removes most recently inflicted status ailment

Metamorphose: Only available below 60% HP. Switches to Seraphic form and immediately uses Seraphic Ray.

In this form, Cid halves all physical and magical damage.

Seraphic Ray: 778 non-typed damage, MT. Removes all positive and negative status from both Cid and his targets. Usable as a free action after Metamorphose, as well as at will thereafter. Based off Cid's Magic stat but not subject to magic defence, Deshell, or Fog.

Attack/Knock Down: 1483 physical damage over 9 hits
Attack/Ruin x2: 655 physical over 5 hits, followed by 326 magic over 2 hits; 981 total
Ruinga: 361 magic damage, large AoE
Guard: Damage received reduced by 90% while stance lasts

Protect/Shell/Vigilance/Haste: Casts these four effects in quick succession. Speed up by ~28%, damage received down by one third. Vigilance can probably be largely ignored in the DL. Protect/Shell last 150 seconds, Vigilance/Haste 90.

Poisonga/Deprotega/Deshellga/Dazega: 196 magic damage over 4 hits, MT. 24% chances to add Poison (1% max HP per 3 seconds) and Daze (doubles damage of next hit, can't take action). 30% chances to add Deprotect and Deshell (+89% damage received from physicals/magic respectively). All last 60 seconds.

*For Daze, it should be noted that the first hit of Cid's physical chains only does 129, so there's only a slight improvement there.

Curasa: Heals 5% of lost HP

Doom: Usable in all forms. Target dies after 3 minutes pass, ignores immunity. Cid will only use this if 20 minutes have already elapsed in the battle, i.e. if you're trying to win via an obnoxious turtle strategy.


Comments: Cid's high chain resistance means that depending on the offence you employ, you might even kill him before staggering him, and you will almost certainly kill him shortly after you do stagger him. Aside from that, well, he's a limit boss. At high HP all he can really do is toss out 3HKOs. Once below 60%, though, he becomes very mean... halves damage for the rest of the battle, has a nasty buff on top of that to make it thirding with great speed, can damage+dispel (at the cost of his own buffs), and has near-OHKO physical damage. If that's not enough against stallers he can try for status, as Deprotect or Daze are both terrifying. His main downfall is foes who can bypass his limit phase.



Galenth Dysley (Barthandelus) (form 2)
"Either way, the end is at hand. But what of yourselves? Will you enjoy the festivities beside me?"

PC stats for Barthandelus

Average HP: ~4525
Average offence: ~770
Average physical/magical damage reduction: ~10% (as with Snowfire's notes, I decided not to factor this into the listed damage below, but I recommend either using this reduction, or upping the average damage/HP figures)

Average COM damage: 10044
Average RAV chain vs. Barthandelus: +14.9% (+16.0% with two buffs and two debuffs)

Optimum offence, including chain: Two rounds of 3RAV, one 3COM, one 3RAV (to Stagger), 6 rounds of 3COM = 29.3% damage in ten rounds. Do this ~3.4 times = fatal damage in 102.49 PC turns (11.71 PCHP)

Optimum offence, including chain and SYN/SAB: Three rounds of RAV/SAB/SYN, one 3COM, one 3RAV (to stagger), two 3RAV, four 3COM = 74.2% damage in eleven rounds. Fatal damage in 44.45 PC turns (5.08 PCHP)


Barthandelus' stats and attacks

HP: 3,307,500
Chain resistance: 60 (stagger point: 200%)
Halves all FF13 elements (fire, ice, lightning, water, wind, earth).
*Barthandelus' elemental resistance is factored in for chain effects, but not for damage (since the latter would be doublecredit in the DL)

70% resistance to Deprotect, Deshell, Slow, and Imperil. 30% resistance to Provoke. 0% resistance to Dispel. Immune to everything else.

Speed notes: See lasers for specific notes, but they're very fast. Other actions are a bit below average, roughly 90% speed. Note that rounds are slower than earlier in the game because everyone now has 5 ATB segments... around 10 seconds.

Red laser: 473 evadable magic damage, 1% chance of Fog for 45 seconds. This attack can be used at approximately 330% average speed.

After 60 seconds, Barthandelus takes a turn to enter phase 2, losing the above ability and gaining:
Blue laser: 263 physical damage, 1% chance of Pain for 45 seconds. Two instances of this attack are used at roughly 150% speed (so 300% overall, but they come roughly in pairs). This attack does not disrupt Barthandelus' turns in any way.
Poisonga: 189 magic damage, large AoE. 80% chance to add Poison (1% max HP per 3 seconds) for 60 seconds.
Cursega: 189 magic damage, large AoE. 80% chance to add Curse (laserspam disrupts targets) for 60 seconds.
Dazega: 189 magic damage, large AoE. 80% chance to add Daze (doubles damage of next hit, can't take action) for 22.5 seconds.

After 60 more seconds, Barthandelus takes a turn to enter phase 3, changing his laser abilities as follows:
Red laser: 263 evadable magic damage, 1% chance of Fog for 45 seconds. This attack is used at approximately 330% average speed, and does not interfere with other actions.
Blue laser: 263 physical damage, 1% chance of Pain for 45 seconds. This attack can be used at approximately 330% average speed, and does not interfere with other actions. (Yes, he spams both laser types at once for about 6 hits per round.)
[Still has the same spells as above on his "real" turns.]

After 60 more seconds, Barthandelus takes a turn to enter phase 4, resetting his chain gauge and gaining new attacks:
Apoptosis: Deals evadable non-typed damage equal to 10% of target's current HP, MT. Removes all positive and negative status from both Barthandelus and his targets.
Thanatosian Laughter: 1552 evadable non-typed damage over 16 hits, MT.

Doom: Target dies after 3 minutes pass, ignores immunity. Barthandelus will only use this if 20 minutes have already elapsed in the battle, i.e. if you're trying to win via an obnoxious turtle strategy.


Comments: Depends a bit on how you deal with that form-shifting. If you hold him to strictly like in-game... he has six turns of doing what amounts to 4HKOing, then six more turns which are similar but mix in various status to fuck over PCs, then six more turns with slightly better offence (3HKOish in practice), then finally gets dispel and can 2HKO in practice. Most PCs can't blitz him down before status wrecks them (unless they immune both daze and curse somehow) but few Godlike bosses fear this package. Low Godlike probably. If you let him hurry it up the way we normally don't worry about "can't be used until turn X" restrictions then he gets better, needs to waste three turns on shifting but then has the 2HKOing off good durability thereafter. Still, losing those turns hurts, so he may not be -that- much better. Goes to mid-high Godlike on HP alone if you use the COM/RAV only average but I don't think much of that.

19

Discussion / Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives

« on: January 12, 2012, 04:17:01 AM »

Same deal as last year. I've been lazy about getting this one started, so let's do this! Again, I count down all the new games I played this year, taking a look at each one, from worst to best. Discussion is of course encouraged!

20

RPG Stats Forum / FFX boss stat topic (rank Sinspawn Ammes!)

« on: January 06, 2012, 06:16:56 AM »

We're overdue for this! This functions mainly as a complete boss stat topic with full information on every required FFX boss, but it also lets you take a look at FFX PCs at various points in-game.

Some build notes here... I'm using the Magic/HP Spheres the game throws at you in treasure chests, but not the ones from cloisters. I've given the Magic Spheres to Lulu because her only competition for them is Yuna and that only serves to make aeons even more broken. Characters are mostly following their sphere grid path until it ends, although I'll have Yuna pick up Steal/Use, while Kimahri is going to do the "beeline to Hastega/Quick Hit" build (others are valid, but this one is less spiky than the one that seeks to pick up Holy, which is probably a good thing).

As for the bosses, a whole bunch of notes:

-Boss PCHP figures are, as always, based on my own personal scaling. Use the numbers provided as you see fit.
-All bosses have 1 defence (meaning they take damage normally) except where otherwise noted. Only late in the game does defence greater than 1 become common outside enemies who exist to obviously spoil certain damage types (such as flans and birds).
-FFX turn order is such that enemies are at a slight disadvantage to PCs of equal speed on the first turn. Notably it means any bosses who are statistically average, I will list as losing tiebreaks.
-FFX weakness means 1.5x normal damage.
-FFX has 20 effects which bosses can immune: berserk, confuse, darkness, death, delay, demi, doom, eject, petrify, poison, provoke, silence, sleep, slow, threaten, zombie, armour break, magic break, mental break, and power break. If a boss immunes a majority of these (as most do), I will instead list only their status vulnerabilities. A few bosses "immune" positive status effects; I will list any such immunities as well (by default, they do not immune any).
-FFX First Strike gives a free turn to the character or enemy that has it, at the start of the battle. Unless the attack used with the turn has a recharge time, it does not influence the arrival of the "normal" first turn. Generally speaking, boss first strike > PC first strike > random enemy first strike, in-game, and further ties are broken only by internal numbering, rather than stats.
-The hit rate of physical attacks is listed; it varies by individual attack (monster hit stats don't do anything). The target's evade is subtracted from this listed accuracy directly. PC evade stats are provided so you can interpret this as you will.
-Any physical attack that adds status can only add status on a successful hit (even if the status is listed as 100%).
-Pseudomagic attacks function mechanically like magic (they are vulnerable to shell and magic defence), but differ from magic in that they do not check silence or reflect. By default, MT magic attacks don't check Reflect, either, unless they are MT versions of normally ST spells (Spherimorph's magic counters, for instance).
-Bosses who counter attacks below certain HP thresholds do so even if the attack in question lowers them below that threshold. On the note of AI thresholds, bosses who can be poisoned will not switch to new AI setups until they are attacked with a non-poison attack below that threshold, unless the threshold is activated by a whole new HP bar (i.e. Yunalesca and Jecht).
-PC damage averages are based on assuming they face an enemy which deals 40% damage to them each turn, giving them an Overdrive once every 9 rounds. Technically it may be higher or lower than that depending on the boss. For the most part I'll be ignoring buffs and recharge times in the damage average, though I'll note ones that exist. Also, aeon damages are listed, but only factored into the average by substituting their strongest available overdrive for Yuna's.

Boss images, except those from RPGDL, are all stolen from the Final Fantasy wiki, so credit goes to them.

21

RPG Stats Forum / The (mostly) complete list of statusblockers

« on: November 01, 2011, 11:48:52 PM »

This is a project I've been working on for a while. It has two purposes:

1. To completely inventory which casts can block which statuses in the DL
2. To indicate what the cast must give up to block status.

I began this project when I was convinced that statusblockers shouldn't be a free lunch: that if you want to equip one, and this comes at the expense of a Speed+10 accessory in-game, then well, you should lose 10 speed in the DL! This means that the status attacker's status is still relevant in more matches, even when the opponent can block or spoil it, and also provides an elegant, more-true-to-in-game way to reflect status vs. blockers.

The main problem with this view, in my opinion, is the overhead required to see what sort of non-statusblockers casts have access to and deciding on which one(s) to use as a default. Well, over the past couple months I've been working on said overhead, and what you see is the mostly completed project.

For each cast, I note the accessories I assume as defaults (which are inevitably stat-boosters or equivalents, rather than anything with intangible benefits), then the costs it takes to equip statusblockers, and what those statusblockers are. For games with subtraction defence (which is a lot), I note how potent I assume that subtraction defence is, when converted to division. Those who stick to subtraction will want to multiply this figure by 40% and then treat it as a raw reduction, I imagine.

Even if you don't like the idea of scaling statusblocking accessories against stat-boosting ones, you should still find this reference useful for the costs associated with statusblocking armour, as well as a list of accessories open to each cast.

There are still some casts missing from this. For one thing, it only covers ranked games for now. (This may change with requests/time.) For another, there are some casts I've skipped. Any help with any of these would be appreciated; the usual reason is I haven't played the game + the stat topic isn't definitive on the subject.

Casts not included here: Arc the Lad series, Earthbound, Golden Sun, Legaia series, Persona series, Skies of Arcadia, Soul Nomad, Tales seres.

For everything else, you can search for the cast by the name of the game "Wild Arms 4" or its DL appreviation "[WA4]". For consistency/ease of searching, no Roman numerals, except for Final Fantasy X-2.


As a footnote... I haven't yet decided whether I actually vote on casts with some of these stat-boosting accessories in place, or whether I just use them for judging the costs of equipping statusblockers. Probably the latter since it doesn't require people to theoretically go and redo stat topics for dozens of games; I don't have a strong enough opinion to overturn this.

On with the show!

22

Heavy / Zelgius (FE10)

« on: February 13, 2011, 01:11:54 AM »

The dreaded Black Knight, general of the two greatest beorc militaries of Tellius. Though he no longer possesses the blessed armour he once wore, he still wields one of the two sacred swords of Begnion, Alondite. Not only is the sword powerful, but it allows Zelgius to attack at any range he chooses, and augments his already high defence to unfairly high levels. Combined with his Imbue skill, which allows him to regenerate a quarter of his health each turn, Zelgius is a tough nut to crack, which only gives him more time to use his even more feared skill, the unique Eclipse, something few opponents indeed can hope to survive. Will Zelgius find a worthy opponent in Heavy?

23

Light / Oliver (FEs)

« on: February 12, 2011, 02:22:02 AM »

Oh, poor duelling league, how did you ever survive this long without Oliver's peerless, blinding BEAUTY? The world may never know. Regardless, the Duke of Tanas finally graces the arena, hoping to perhaps face and woo a beautiful... er... bird. Though statistically unimpressive, Oliver does bring a Nosferatu tome to erase the unsightly damage he might sustain in combat, which is quite the trump card in the league's lowest division. And besides, who can hope to stand against his devotion to all that is beautiful?

24

Middle / Micaiah (FE10)

« on: February 12, 2011, 02:20:52 AM »

The Maiden of Dawn is not a physically imposing figure, especially compared to the other leaders of the nations of Tellius. Still, underestimating her, as the Begnion garrison occupying her beloved Daein learned, is fatal. While her defence is poor and her speed is only okay, Micaiah is a powerful light magic adept. Her Nosferatu tome which, unlike her series predecessors, she can use without a loss of speed, allows her to recover any damage she takes while dealing out heavy offence in return, while her trademark Thani will make short work of anyone foolish enough to bring a horse or heavy armour to the arena. Toss in a near immunity to magic, and Micaiah is a dangerous foe in Middle.

25

Heavy / Sephiran (FE10)

« on: February 12, 2011, 02:20:00 AM »

Oh, those foolish duellers. Is their pitiful league not itself the perfect representation of the failures of living beings to honour their covenant with Ashera? Judgement can not come swiftly enough, and the Chancellor of Begnion will be pleased to deliver it himself in his goddess's name. His Creiddylad tome allows him an array of powerful light magic attacks, from any range, against any number of targets, and his Mantle skill, the blessing of his goddess, protects him from status attacks, critical hits, and other such disorderly skills while granting him a potent regeneration. Toss in surprisingly high defence and speed, and you have a Heavy few wish to face without immuning light.