The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => RPGDL Discussion => Topic started by: Jo'ou Ranbu on November 15, 2008, 06:01:52 AM
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3)
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga)
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8)
Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Empyrea (DQ8)
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2)
Crono (CT) Vs Neifirst (PS2)
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos)
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG)
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9)
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9)
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT)
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2)
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1)
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9)
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7)
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7)
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3) - EDIT: Nevermind, I'm dumb.
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga) - Yawn.
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8) - Birds. Alternatively, just OHKOs.
Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Empyrea (DQ8) - Non-elemental slugger who mocks physicals? Um yeah Empy no likey.
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2) - Boom.
Crono (CT) vs Neifirst (PS2) - Yup.
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG) - This week is full of slaughters.
Middle
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT) - Huh, so Beo can at least resist Lightning? I guess... that's enough.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1) - Nana is awful.
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7) - EDIT: I'm just assuming Grand Spark isn't Fire, because sheesh.
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - EDIT: Dear god, WOW!.
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3)- Kyogre has steady enough non-Waterspour damage, and Johnny's MDef and HP cancel a bit, I'd bet.
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga)- TL
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8)- Royce
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2)
Crono (CT) Vs Neifirst (PS2)
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos)
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG)
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9)- 2HKO magic works well here.
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9)- Midboss HP
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT)- Halves Lightning and Jeane is status bait.
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2)- I think? Shion can't get both Paralysis and Stone, and either is fatal.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1)
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9)- Blar, have to think about Reis here.
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7)
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7)- Don't know. WOW! might buy Miranda the win here.
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3): Wait, isn't Kyogre faster? Even if he isn't, still wins. Survives an Ether Purge, so either Johnny opens with that and gets owned by Rest/OHKOed by Hydro Pump, or he opens with something else and gets owned by Calm Mind.
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8): Yeah.
Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Empyrea (DQ8): Kills in two turns instead of three. Empyrea might have a chance if she weren't hitting Cloud's defence.
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2): OHKOs.
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos): Faster, 2HKOs/heal locks/crits, etc. Boss form is just lol. I guess I could see PC's Blessed Light getting OHKO hype here, but... nah.
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG): At last!
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9): Gadwin-has-bad-damage vote.
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9): I dunno. I suppose Boyd probably goes first, but I'm not sure he manages that 2HKO or not... hmm.
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT): Kinda lame.
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2): Poor Shion, owned by 5/6 of her cast preferring XS1 over XS2. Could still vote for her... bah, Shion gives me headaches.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1): JET...!
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9): Heh, both hit each other's high defence. Unless Reis is actually better off with physicals... but probably not since that triggers counters. So it's Soren's better damage against Reis' better durability. Will think on this.
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7): G3 itemcasts were legal due to needing to be equipped, right? Yeah, WOW! may just win this then. Pathetic.
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Middle
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2) - Placing my bets on Ana's status right now.
Light
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7) - need to check if Rude OHKOs. If he doesn't, well...
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - G3 itemcasts are indeed legal. Low Aeris respect means WOW! is giving her the win.
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Godlike
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga)
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8)
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2)
Crono (CT) Vs Neifirst (PS2)- He has the speed and defense to give Neifirst a good fight, but.. as usual his actual offense is lacking.
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos)- How fast did Nichoali's second turn come as a boss?
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG)- OUT OUT DAMNED ZIDANE.
Middle
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT)
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2)- Thinking Ana's status takes this, it ended up a bit better than I thought.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1)
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7)
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Middle
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2)-
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1)
Btw is WOW unlimited or one time only? - and does Miranda have to give up a turn to cast it? If it's one time and the damage is second turn could Aeris survive by defending? Seems as if Miranda's resources are limited and if Aeris could just stall long enough till the match is reduced to base physicals then the match is hers. By slugging with physicals + healing or ... can Miranda be Seal Eviled?
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Miranda can be Seal Evil'd! Just doesn't really matter with WOW!, since it lets her blow into a range where Aeris is getting outslugged even if she does SE. Aeris has absolutely awful slugfesting powers (10HKOs average if you're generous? Maybe a bit better if you take her directly at ToA levels), and Seal Evil runs out. Not to mention it's a limit status. Maybe if Aeris could spam it, it'd work better. But then, if she could, she wouldn't be a poor Light. >_>
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If Aeris is defending, then Miranda doesn't have much of a reason to use her resource-using damage, now does she? Just beat with physicals for free damage.
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*is confusedchu*
What I mean is ... Aeris would only choose to defend if Miranda used WOW (granted I have no idea of how WOW actually works >.>) on her first turn. That also boosts the damage of her basic physicals no? I guess if the effect of WOW never runs out it wouldn't be a waste using it for her physicals anyway though >.>
Snow -
:D
I think Seal Evil lasts four or five turns irrc but you're right Aeris would have to get the limit first without dying in the process combined with getting in enough physical attacks before activating her limit. Not enough. Oh well.
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WOW is a temporary damage boost to all physical stuff that Miranda can cast as many times as she wants. If she casts it and Aeris starts defending, Miranda uses physicals until WOW wears off... at which point she recasts it, getting her right back on track.
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How fast did Nichoali's second turn come as a boss?
SH2 is not SH3, its bosses do not get artificially sped up turns. I believe we determined their first turns were slightly slower than their subsequent turns, but at best that's a case of average vs. below average.
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3): Monkey and I mathed this out in chat about a week ago or so. Johnny can only win this if he goes first, you allow him two Ether Purges, *AND* you don't factor Ether Purge into the average (or assume the current average, instead of 2 Ether Purges + A physical.) Not a great combo for Johnny.
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga): Terra can win this if you don't allow Fusion (or by extension, Fusion skills since that's where TL's damage source (Read: Griffith Scratch) comes from) or see her evading enough hits to survive the Overdrive combo. Neither of these are unreasonable, but I allow Fusions and I think it was stated that normal evasion but not blocking, which FF6 does actually distinguish (Blocking = Golem/Interceptor to me) is ignored in Overdrive, so yeah.
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8): Firebird claims another victim.
Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Empyrea (DQ8): HP Difference is a bit too drastic here, considering CoD gets around Empyrea's defenses.
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2): Lilka can't do enough damage to stop Forgiver Sign from just mudering her.
Crono (CT) Vs Neifirst (PS2): Kneejerk; Crono's not good at taking down bosses, frankly, and while Neifirst had lowish defense, Crono can only take advantage of that by sacrificing a lot of speed, which probably kills his speed advantage as Neifirst was fast.
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos): PC that deals damage should be able to blitz Nicolai, is my thought.
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG): Nice run Zidane, but you just ran into a boss that isn't reliant on elemental damage.
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9): Yeah, definitely remember Gadwin's damage being unimpressive myself by the end of things.
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9): hmm...good fight, unsure who wins offhand though. Its a decent slugfest nonetheless!
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT): Was about to vote Beowulf based on White Robe > Lightning Magic, until I remembered Beowulf has issues just hitting Jeane with status too, to the point where he may be better off just trying to kill her with damage. Jeane may still 2HKO through White Robe though...but then I remembered Aegis Shield exists, which should buy Beowulf another turn, and I believe he's going first. Her raw physical durability should give him a 3HKO to her, I wanna say, and she 3 turns him in response, and I wanna say she's slower.
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2): Status I guess.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1): Gonna go with WA3 PCs > G1 bosses for now or something.
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9): Dragon Reis is a magic tank, I think having a physical is enough to beat Soren?
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7): Can't vote.
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7): I...think Aeris' damage sucks too much even without WOW! given her healing is practically OPB given it heals her less than the amount of damage she receives, and she can't really take much advantage of Seal Evil.
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3)
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga)
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8)
Heavy
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos)
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG)
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9)
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9): 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed back, and doesn't trigger counters. I don't know who goes first but it doesn't matter.
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT): This match was making me hold off on posting. Meeple's argument convinced me.
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2)
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1)
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9)
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7)
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3)
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga)
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8)
Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Empyrea (DQ8)
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2)
Crono (CT) vs Neifirst (PS2)
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos)
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG)
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9)
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9)
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT)
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2) - Wiseman's Beads (Nullifies all status ailments - storebought) Quick and/or slow against 3HKO damage means Shion, with full healing, has little to worry about. Offensively Shion is able to exploit Anastasia's fire weakness to great effect. Plus she has physical/magical ATK/DEF down and offensive/defensive up for herself if needed. Finally... Safety >>> nightmare. It makes nightmare 4HKO at the very least. (?HP > 1HP > half HP > ?HP > kill)
Or if you don't allow accessories.
Misty = 100% silence for about five turns. Quick or slow on the 2nd turn means Shion gets misty as many times as she needs without worry. And silence means anastasia only has (4HKO) physical damage.
This is Shion's battle.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1)
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9)
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7)
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7)
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Wait, how does Shion get Misty? If you're citing skill transfers in XS1/3, those aren't usually allowed. Full status blocking accessories tend to get the axe pretty unanimously as well. Anyways, citing anything past XS1 means you've got nowhere near as many people voting on that form (see Albedo losing to people who his XS2 form should reasonably squish).
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Heavy
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos)
Middle
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT)
Light
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7): Bolt 2 gets him through, I think.
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Wait, how does Shion get Misty? If you're citing skill transfers in XS1/3, those aren't usually allowed. Full status blocking accessories tend to get the axe pretty unanimously as well. Anyways, citing anything past XS1 means you've got nowhere near as many people voting on that form (see Albedo losing to people who his XS2 form should reasonably squish).
1. Shion can learn misty. (non transfer)
2. What you mean is that "storebought full status blocking accessories tend to get the axe pretty unanimously if they are not from the right game(s) or from the wrong ones."
3. Why wouldn't I be able to use her form from the two year old, latest game in the series? If others can't or won't vote on that form then fine, but it shouldn't stop those who can.
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Full status blocking accessories tend to get the axe pretty unanimously as well.
This used to be true but it's changing.
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Shion can learn Misty, but only on her EX paths, which generally aren't seen as too legal.
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3. Why wouldn't I be able to use her form from the two year old, latest game in the series? If others can't or won't vote on that form then fine, but it shouldn't stop those who can.
Oh, he's not saying you can't by any means. He's just mentioning that there's a lot fewer people that have A) Played that one(for example, I only played the first XS) or B) Don't vote on forms that aren't specifically ranked, which XS3 Shion isn't. Nobody's saying that you can't do that, but there are people who choose not to as well.
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Godlike
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga): Bah humbug.
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8): Flamebird, laughs at fire. Yeah, this isn't close.
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2): OHKOs with Forgiver Sign. Bah Humbug Mk II
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos): Not thinking about this one much.
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG): As long as Grahf was status immune.
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9): Meh, I'll buy Dhyer hype today.
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9): 2HKO? Works.
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT): Blocks lightning apparently.
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2): XS1 Shion. I'd vote on XS3 but I never beat that game.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1): No.
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9): Physical works?
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7): Some form of non-fail something.
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7): Aeris isn't good. Pity.
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Godlike
Kyogre (PKMN) vs Johnny Garland (SH3) - Can't argue with the math.
Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga) - Kneejerk Ultima hype, but I'm too lazy to see if Terra lives through TimeLord's opener.
Royce (Lunar1) vs Jessica Albert (DQ8) - What a fan-service-y match. I want to draw suddenly.
Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Empyrea (DQ8) - Final Boss > Mid-Boss?
Heavy
Riou (S2) vs Lilka Eleniak (WA2) - Borderline Godlike laughs at Heavy.
Crono (CT) vs Neifirst (PS2) - After doing some math, this is closer than I had expected, but still Neifirst's match.
Nicholai Conrad (SH2) vs Georg Prime (Suikos) - I don't think Nicholai really even had a chance against his -last- match, but Georg definitely outdamages Nich.
Zidane Tribal (FF9) vs Grahf (XG) - And with this, all the PSX FF mains solidify their place in Heavy. It was a nice showing for you, Zidane.
Middle
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9) - Gadwin's best argument here is that Magic doesn't trigger counters. Oscar has some pretty significant durability, whereas Gadwin was just kinda tanky. Think Oscar outraces him here.
Midboss (Dis2) vs Boyd (FE9) - They counter eachother to death, and I respect Boyd's durability more than Mid-Boss'.
Jeane (Suikos) vs Beowulf Kadmus (FFT) - Damn Lightning Resistance, I wanted to do another Jeane's Charm Rune write up.
Shion Uzuki (XSs) vs Anastasia Romanov (SH2) - apathy.
Light
Jet Enduro (WA3) vs Nana (G1) - apathy + kneejerk
Reis Dular (FFT) vs Soren (FE9) - At least you won a match, Soren. Dragon Reis magic tankiness + Soren frailty.
Chidori Yoshino (P3) vs Rude (FF7) - She's still doing better than Arietta!
Miranda (G3) vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - I was all excited about Miranda getting a win here, but by some weird fluke, Aeris ends up winning by my views. For me, FF7 characters can start with 50% Lv4 Limit meter. For lower level Limits, they can start with slightly more. 75% for Lv3, and 100% for lv2/1. This means Aeris opens with Seal Evil and staff-whacks her way to victory before Miranda gets enough turns. *sigh*
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What a fan-service-y match. I want to draw suddenly.
Do it, man. ^_^
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Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga) - Kneejerk Ultima hype, but I'm too lazy to see if Terra lives through TimeLord's opener.
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9) - Gadwin's best argument here is that Magic doesn't trigger counters. Oscar has some pretty significant durability, whereas Gadwin was just kinda tanky. Think Oscar outraces him here.
Isn't checking to see if someone can flat out kill someone else before they can move more relevant than the OHKO comes later?
Oscar is below average magic durability. Gadwin has 150% PC HP. Gadwin has a pretty notable durability edge.
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Oh, he's not saying you can't by any means. He's just mentioning that there's a lot fewer people that have A) Played that one(for example, I only played the first XS) or B) Don't vote on forms that aren't specifically ranked, which XS3 Shion isn't. Nobody's saying that you can't do that, but there are people who choose not to as well.
More specifically, I even argue in favor of as many forms as I can any time I vote on a character. Part of why I was scratching my head trying to figure out a way for XS1 Albedo to beat Jecht when they met up.
Anyways, the universal status blocker thing isn't something you'll see a whole lot, though it's fine if you allow it. Not sure about the EX paths, I'd have to look back at the mechanics and such to see if I'd allow them.
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The EX Paths effectively contain every skill in the game that a given character doesn't get in their A or B paths. Allowing them makes the entire casts functional clones in terms of skillset, so you can probalby guess how a lot of the DL feels about them.
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Terra Branford (FF6) vs TimeLord (Saga) - Kneejerk Ultima hype, but I'm too lazy to see if Terra lives through TimeLord's opener.
Gadwin (G1) vs Oscar (FE9) - Gadwin's best argument here is that Magic doesn't trigger counters. Oscar has some pretty significant durability, whereas Gadwin was just kinda tanky. Think Oscar outraces him here.
Isn't checking to see if someone can flat out kill someone else before they can move more relevant than the OHKO comes later?
Oscar is below average magic durability. Gadwin has 150% PC HP. Gadwin has a pretty notable durability edge.
Cool. I'll defer to your knowledge here out of laziness. I'll change my votes.
-Djinn