Rate this game in the DL: ToS and VP1.

[superaielman]

DQ8 and DDS
BoF1 and SO2
FFX and PS4
FFT and SoA
S3 and FE7
FF4 and CT



We've had various incarnations of this topic over the years, measuring how much you like a game's cast/what'd you rank from the game/how much you respect the duellers, etc. Well, we haven't had one of these in a while so I figured I'd restart the topic to give us something to talk about during the downtime. Archived topics are listed above. Feel free to bump up and vote on older topics.

Tales of Symphonia- a smash hit with most gamers, racking up huge sales on the gamecube. In spite of fairly poor playership it was ranked in the DL and had a strong impact. While it's drawn in our casual base well, it's been aruged to have taken some bad wins over it's time.

Valkyrie Profile 1. Both in the RPGP and DL, it's been a popular game. From it's swarm of Godlikes to it's popular characters, it's always been around in one form or other. Not without it's arguments- From Hrist to Lezard to Brahms all the way down to the mages, it's a game that has attracted it's fair share of debate.

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller:
Least favorite dueller:

Strongest dueller:
Weakest dueller:

Favorite moment in the DL with this game:
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game:

A character you'd like to see added to the game:
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game:

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller:
Least favorite dueller:

Strongest dueller:
Weakest dueller:

Favorite moment in the DL with this game:
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game:

A character you'd like to see added to the game:
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game:


Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

---

Also, suggest ideas for what to use in the next round.

[superaielman]

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Brahms. Lenneth and Lawfer are decent runners up.
Least favorite dueller: LOKI. A thousand times over. One of the most overrated Godlkes of all time- his durability to anything but physicals is pretty bad and his damage is overrated by a staggering amount. Hey if it focuses just right and you ignore skills and any kind of twinking he's a godlike champion!!! Go away. Genevieve, Brahms, Freya, Shiho, and Hrist (Based on VP1 alone), and were iffy ranks, but they don't piss me off quite like Loki does.

Strongest dueller: Lenneth
Weakest dueller: Shiho.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Loki getting his sorry ass handed to him by Elc.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Lucian downgrading. That was just wrong.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: NA.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Freya, Genevieve, Hrist. Shiho I can see but don't agree with. Brahms is also definitely iffy.


Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

Definitely a game that translated better to the RPGP. All the strong plot power characters that have a lot of camera time either suck or are unrankable, which really takes out some of the game's most memorable characters.  I don't mind the game in the DL too much aside from Loki- Freya is annoying but made sense at the time (Us not booting her on the other hand..), Hrist was at least a funny joke light for a while, Lezard/Brahms were big players, etc.


As far as ToS goes, all I have to say is death to Regal.

[Meeplelard]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Unsure.  Not exactly a stellar cast.
Least favorite dueller: Kratos. While I like the character, his success in the DL has been offensive.

Strongest dueller: Mithos. Text Book heavy boss or something.
Weakest dueller: Sheena.  Completely lacking in damage or tricks.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Sheena vs. Evil Gaia.  A hilarious slapfight of epic proportions.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Kratos' run.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Yuan and Bottos (was that his name?) are the only ones I'd consider ranking that we don't already have ranked.  Both have a decent amount of plot and battle forms that are completely legit at the same time.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: None offhand.

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Lenneth. The fun Overkill Factor and all that.
Least favorite dueller: Use to be Lezard due to the form split thing that people would suddenly change views on in a whim to allowing the SG form despite not allowing it the week before, but...VP2 kicks in so he doesn't really count.  With that in mind, probably some sort of PC Mage, cause they're bland.

Strongest dueller: Loki.  Awesome Defense + Excellent Damage.
Weakest dueller: Now that Hrist's using her VP2 form, I guess some sort of Mage.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: I can't remember any that stands out at the moment.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Loki vs. Orlandu. Orlandu won that fight based on info that wasn't even remotely true (such as Loki losing Indiscriminate at certain HP intervals when he never actually does.)

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Wraith <_<? Other than that, yeah, no one.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Genevieve.  She's a generic dungeon boss who gets one extra scene/fight in Jayle's recruitment, and has practically no plot otherwise.  Merely got in due to RPGP Cross Over, but if VP was ranked now, damned if I'd rank her.

[VySaika]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Hmm, Genis? Eh, sure.
Least favorite dueller: Kratos. See meep.

Strongest dueller: Mithos, sure.
Weakest dueller: Sheena. I like her as a character, but >_< to her champing Light.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Regal vs. Purim. Just for the writeup. Super slapfighting powers go!
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Sheena champing S30, upgrading, and then failing to downgrade despite being smacked straight into a pool by Nicolas. She. Is. Not. Good.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Eh, Yuan could work, but doesn't feel needed.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: PCs+Final Boss strikes me as a pretty standard rank. Nobody to really cut.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Hmm, Lawfur? Lucian? Aelia? I like most of the VP fighters, really. Brahms is neat too, for that matter.
Least favorite dueller: Freya. Her VP1 form needed booting and her VP2 form doesn't sound any better.

Strongest dueller: Loki or Lenneth. One's got the o_O defence and boss immunities, and the other's got o_O damage. Not sure which is really stronger overall.
Weakest dueller: Shiho.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Lucian making the finals and upgrading, sure.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Lawfur having nothing but ass for luck in draws.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: None
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Genevieve and Freya.


Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

[OblivionKnight]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Zelos!  He's so sexy!
Least favorite dueller: Sheena for robbing EVIL GAIA, Colette in general.  Colette I don't hate, but...she's my least favourite of the rest.

Strongest dueller: Kratos.  Yay boss form of awesome.
Weakest dueller: Sheena! 

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Mmm...none really stand out to me.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: SHEENA ROBBING EVIL GAIA!  YOU STUPID SLUT!

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Yuan, Botta, the Desian Cardinals (Pronyma, Forcystus, etc.), Remiel.  There are actually a lot of bosses that could be added and would work.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Ranked well overall, though more would be neat.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?
Good overall. 8/10.  I mean, it's got failings, but it's always ripe with fun things (upsets, wins, ranking hype) that keep it interesting.

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: ...oh, so many.  Shiho!  Hrist!  Both are awesome. 
Least favorite dueller: Genevive.  Mostly because...yeah, don't think we should have ranked her.  Also...she's Loki, basically.  Feels like a clone.

Strongest dueller: Loki.  No contest.
Weakest dueller: Hrist.  The VP1 form is awesome failure.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Mmm...Hrist's many failed attempts at victory were awesomely funny.  So many losses, then she's d/c'd, and re-ranked, and they disappear.  It's just kind of funny.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Mmm...well, watching Loki lose to Orlandu.  There...no.  It's like Necrosaro/Ghaleon - it's just...wrong. 

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Mmm...none stand out much.  I mean, we have Genevive, so Bloodbane and some others aren't too bad to add if we're going that way, but I'd rather not have any.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Genevive. 


Any other notes/thoughts about the game?
Most of the cast is so damn weak, and prays they have a VP3 form.  Then you have the bosses.  Overall like it.  7/10.


Next time?  Persona 2 and Lunar 1.

[Cmdr_King]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: N...o one really qualifies.
Least favorite dueller: Regal.  Blech.

Strongest dueller: Mithos.
Weakest dueller: Sheena.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: I'm sure there's about 15 Sage writeups about Zelos I could find.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Kratos' doom runs.  Just argh.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: The game could probably support Yuan and Botta and they're rankable in terms of plot presence for a game of ToS' success.  But on the other hand, inviting more ToS related headaches... I dunno.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Good rank.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game? Glad it's settled down.  I think.

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Lenneth.  Fanboy.
Least favorite dueller: I dunno.  Belenus?  Janus?  There's some boring people in the cast that aren't as entertaining as the mages.

Strongest dueller: Loki.  Although Lenneth and Brahms aren't much worse, both are more spoilable.
Weakest dueller: Shiho.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: I can't think of any specific ones.  Generally an entertaining game on the whole though.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Nothing jumps to mind.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: None.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Genevieve is... just interesting enough to not be offensive, and there's no one else I'd really consider cutting.


Any other notes/thoughts about the game? Lenneth is pretty.

[Lance]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueler: Presea
Least favorite dueler: Kratos

Strongest dueler: Probably Mithos
Weakest dueler: Raine

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Zelos beating Vigoro.  That was a match made in heaven.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Either Kratos's retarded run through Heavy and subsequent upgrade or the fact that Colette has a losing record in Light when I view her as a decent Middle.

A character you'd like to see added to the game:  Yuan and Botta...maybe Remiel too.  Seles would be nice, but I'm probably the only one who thinks so.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Nope.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?  With the exception of Kratos, I really like this cast.  Yes, even Sheena.



Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueler: Aelia
Least favorite dueler: One of the less interesting mages, I guess.  Lorenta or Lyseria or someone like that.

Strongest dueler: Loki
Weakest dueler: Shiho

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Probably Arngrim's season 31 Heavy run.  Oooh!  Or Lezard in the Light finals!  That was friggin' awesome.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Either Arngrim losing to Ultros or Lawfer getting creamed time and time again.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Bloodbane
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Genevieve


Any other notes/thoughts about the game? Aelia is going to win the Middle title one of these days.  Just you wait and see.


Suggestions for next time: Final Fantasy VI and Wild Arms 2

[Twilkitri]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Nothing about ToS characters is especially interesting duel-wise really. Consequently Arbitration chooses Sheena.
Least favorite dueller: Oh wow. Zelos, Presea, Mithos, Regal, so many valid choices... Clearly I have to throw Mithos out there though due to how much he fails ingame, and how much he theoretically doesn't do so here.

Strongest dueller: I refuse to respond on the grounds that the answer is oh so wrong.
Weakest dueller: Genis?

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: I should probably just excise these lines all the time since I so rarely have anything to say about them.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: This is no exception.

A character you'd like to see added from this game: Only other major characters I can think of are the Desian Generals and I don't even remember how many of them you actually fight, and Yuan. And I don't think any of them are worth it.
A character you'd like to see dropped from this game: I don't see any valid reasons for dropping any of the currently ranked characters.

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Arngrim I guess.
Least favorite dueller: Badrach.

Strongest dueller: Since I still haven't gotten around to replaying that would have to be Surt.
Weakest dueller: As I am becoming increasingly leery about denying people equipment for tenuous reasons, I'm going to have to go with Badrach. Also I really need to replay.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: There are no moments regarding VP that I can remember.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: On either side of the scale. Or whatsoever.

A character you'd like to see added from this game: There are any characters that weren't?
A character you'd like to see dropped from this game: No-one comes to mind.

[Ultradude]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Presea smash. Best PC in the cast despite her simplicity.
Least favorite dueller: Sheena. Booooring.

Strongest dueller: Kratos. Boss form hype blah blah blah.
Weakest dueller: Sheena. Weeeeaaaaak.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Zelos vs. Vigoro writeup, and Zelos runs in general.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Sheena. Yes, Sheena herself counts as a least favorite DL moment.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Yuan and Botta would've been nice, and I would've supported the Grand Cardinals and Remiel for sure. Excellent playership and not too badly disliked here >_>
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Good rank.

FFVI aaaaand... WA3 next.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Zelos. I love race-weakness weapons and Zelos' PC form has that nifty 2x vs. Humans Last Fencer. Conceivably Kratos could take advantage of this too, but he almost always wants his boss form. Colette, defying all logic on my part, is also one of the more fun characters to see.
Least favorite dueller: Mithos bores me as a dueller. Sheena hype annoys, though I find Sheena herself to be inoffensive. She wishes she could ever use Summons in the DL. How is the VP1 cast is allowed to use PWS but other series with impractical battle features are not given similar allowances? Overlimit Mode and Hi-Ougis are a big part of the Tales series, but none of the ranked games get to represent this feature... There's a few other games that bring this idea to mind, as well. But I suppose VP1's allowances are a throwback? (back on topic now!)

Strongest dueller: Kratos, I suppose. Mithos is more solid, I think.
Weakest dueller: Sheena or Raine. Raine is at least a competent Healer-type. Still, Sheena wins championships... >.>;;

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Colette beats Mallow! I really got into this match for some reason.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Zelos coming up upon a non-human for his first Godlike match. Too bad, he might have been able to finally earn some respect otherwise. Oh well, cookie crumbles and all that.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Nope, you guys did a good job ranking this.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Ranking both Zelos and Kratos seems a little weird to me, but Kratos' boss form helps this out. I'm glad both got ranked. Wouldn't un-rank any of these guys. Not even the blandest of the bland, Regal.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?
Regal for most bland of the pedophile RPG characters?

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Arngrim. Straightforward kind of duelist, VP2 form helps this even more.
Least favorite dueller: Pick a boss character, they just don't interest me from this game.

Strongest dueller: Lenneth or Loki. Still not sure how to take PCs in this game.
Weakest dueller: Pick a VP mage! Shiho is particularly useless, though still one of my favorite Punies.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Anytime an 'obligatory VP mage' gets in. It just causes me to become amused for some reason.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Nothing comes to mind.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Gah, overranked!
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: A lot of the Einherjar who don't have strong plot connections don't seem like good ranks. Luckily, even the least developed PC in this game is still better than the most developed characters in say... FF8. Offhand, Jayle, Belenus, Shiho, Suo, Lyseria, Yumei, and Llewelyn seem extraneous, though I have nothing against them. They just don't have enough plot ties or ties to other characters.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?
Great game, seems weird that VP1 gets special allowances for its battle system in terms of PWS. Glad they do since I love this cast, but still seems unfair at times.

---

Also, suggest ideas for what to use in the next round.
Ogre Battle and Shining Force - antiquated SRPGs that get no respect.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Presea. Probably just Sage avatar association. Also she beat Serge, which is probably the only time ToS beating something has ever made me happy.
Least favorite dueller: Kratos and Sheena are both horrible, but checking their records, Sheena is the more offensive.

Strongest dueller: Presea/Kratos/Mithos in some order, would need to play the game to say.
Weakest dueller: Sheena.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Kratos losing in Godlike.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Sheena's runs. Mallow? Mia? Wakaba? Ick.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: N/A (Remiel has a boss form? Huh, he's actually... memorable as a character, at least!)
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Pretty sure they all deserve in.

Any other notes/thoughts about the game? Ranking it to appease a casual fanbase when its playership sucked was stupid. All it did was make people unhappy.

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Lenneth? Probably. Neat stuff with the smash. Surt's also up there.
Least favorite dueller: Uh... hmm. Lezard? Though I didn't mind him tooo much before VP2, so I dunno. Kinda lack any standout PC I dislike, though.

Strongest dueller: Loki. Not even close to me! Focussing gives him too much overkill (doesn't matter what HP boosters you consider), his durability against physicals is good, and his durability against magic... well, it owns VP2 bosses.
Weakest dueller: Shiho. Bird.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: I always enjoyed Grey tearing shit up in Light. Arngrim's run was also unexpected and cool.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Lawfer's DL luck in general. ;_; Lucian downgrading, what the fuck was that.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Nobody. If there was going to be one, Fenrir, because he's memorable due to being motherfucking Fenrir, and because he's like the only damn boss in the entire game who does something memorable besides Soul Crushing and Indiscriminate. Oh and Wraith is of course awesome and needs to fight Gyarados every season.
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Genevieve is a pretty shaky rank. Clearly worse than Barbarossa and Barby needed VP2 plot to get in! Also, if I'd known VP2 would exist, Lezard, because his VP2 clusterfuck doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the DL, but we didn't really have a choice because he was already ranked here, based off one highly immemorable boss fight at that. Freya also sucks, Brahms is shaky. Not the end of the world, but it'd be interesting to see who would get in if it were a new game today.


Any other notes/thoughts about the game? Soul Crushes are a waaay bigger deal to VP's battle system than Overlimits or Trances and the like; characters are memorable for their differences in this department. The only reason they wouldn't be able to use them is a battle system quirk; they are common in-game. This is why they get considered.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Surt. High Heavy boss. (Lezard before VP2)
Least favorite dueller: Shiho

Strongest dueller: Loki.
Weakest dueller: Shiho

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Arngrim run.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Loki losing to Elc. Also Freya getting to the Godlike finals. Shiho winning is also blah.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: ha ha ha
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: Gen, SHIHO, BOOT THAT SHIT NOW, Freya, Brahms, Hrist

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

[Fudozukushi]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Preasa.
Least favorite dueller: Sheena.

Strongest dueller: Probably Preasa due to low respect for the godlikes.
Weakest dueller: Sheena.

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: meh.
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Anything involving Sheena.

A character you'd like to see added to the game: meh
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: meh

[superaielman]

Re VP1 Rankings: I don't think you can avoid ranking Lezard. He's a major player in both games and has legal (but shitty) forms in each. Much as he makes a better RPGP than DL rank, I don't think you can skip that.  Though I'd probably agree with you on that ignoring VP2. Just too much potential votesplit. It's one of the reasons why I was never really comfortable- Lezard in light just screams wrong to me on anything but a gameplay level, and I can definitely imagine most of our voters twitching and autovoting him up.

And we'd rank based on VP1 now, assuming the same level of draw.. hum. All the bosses besides Surt have some pretty damning arguments against them, but I'd rank Loki and Surt both. The A ending's not so obscure as to affect draw and I imagine with the abject failure of the major plot bosses, that people would be pushing for some form of boss.

Brahms/Freya/Genevieve/Barbarossa (VP1 only plot) wouldn't make the cut. No idea about Lezard, as said above he has legit forms, they just don't match up at all with the plot power and what'd you think. We'd lose some mages on the PC front and a few generic swordsmen? There's not... a ton to cut.

*Checks ToS* The numbers were good enough internally, just on the weak side. We could have held off a period on it, but after that it  was a ranking freeze and no way would people have shelved rankings with such a popular game there. Much as ToS sucked, I don't think there was any way to diffuse that- even if it had stronger internal, the strong wave of voters we had at the time would have made it a juggernaught no matter what.

(Not meaning to pick fights, just arguing interesting stuff)

[alanna82]

Tales of Symphonia

Favorite dueller: Presea ^_^
Least favorite dueller: Genis

Strongest dueller: Kratos (I allow his boss form)
Weakest dueller: Genis (yes, worse than Sheena and Colette)

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Sheena's champ, since I think the DL underrates her as a whole
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Colette's massive losses. She deserves middle

A character you'd like to see added to the game: None
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: None

Any other notes/thoughts about the game?

Valkyrie Profile 1

Favorite dueller: Lenneth
Least favorite dueller: any generic fighter

Strongest dueller: Freya (I allow her form)
Weakest dueller: Shiho, can only do damage with wait reaction

Favorite moment in the DL with this game: Shiho winning. LOL
Least favorite moment in the DL with this game: Freya's massive losses due to no respect here

A character you'd like to see added to the game: Theres characters left?
A character you wouldn't have ranked from this game: well Plotfight Hrist, but she has a legit form now, so everyone left I am okay with (including Freya and Brahms. I dont mind after game stuff since Freya and Brahms have plot in the main game)