Author Topic: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8  (Read 3832 times)

superaielman

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Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« on: January 17, 2008, 04:23:42 AM »
Violetta 2, Nate 0
Lavos 4, Virgil 2
Lloyd 2, Luther 1
Persephone 2, Miguel 1

Nina4 8, Alex 1
Gades 4, Ted 3
Maya Schroedinger 7, Wakka 3
Tidus 8, Sonya 3

Vivi 7, Sara 5
Beowulf 6, Peppita 0
Alice 6, Balk 4
Eileen 4, Sania 2

Hawkeye 6, Draggy 4
Zhuzhen 10, Futch 1
Noel 9, Cid 1
Peco 6, Jean 5

Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3)
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos)

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2)
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs)
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2)

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1)
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3)
100 Gen (Saga) vs 22 Lich (FF1)
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1)

Light:

6 Gogen (AtLC) vs 90 Mint (ToP)
22 Anna Zirski (PS2) vs 47 Nanami (S2)
77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3)
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2008, 04:29:47 AM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3): Boom.
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos): Tir halving elements should give him this. Judgement 3HKOs.

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2): OHKOs? Immunes ID? Whatever, intuitive.
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4): Albert is slow. Demi heals until doubleturns and smashes on them. Along with the free shots at the start and end of the battle... she 4HKOs at worst, so needs to doubleturn twice in 25 rounds or so. I think -average speed- does that, and Demi's speedy.
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs): Ow.
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2): No way am I buying a OHKO here, and Zemeckis needs it.

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1): Kneejerk, could be argued.
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3): It's hammer time! Toss in paralysis immunity and I don't see Aila getting around it.
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1): FE upgrade-bait vs. melee. Hmm...

Light:

77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3): Oh god.
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC): Oh god.

Light later. Maybe.

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superaielman

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2008, 04:31:25 AM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3)- Too much offense for even Wren to handle.
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos)- Dark Force still sucks.

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2)- Mirror Slice pastes her pretty badly.
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)- !!!! makes this easy.
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs)- Mismatch.
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2)- As is this.

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1)- Easily survives a Milda hit and the ID isn't cutting it even on the off chance Bowman can't block it in the DL based on what you allow equip wise.
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3)- Barret needs a better basic physical to apply much pressure- Aila can buff and take her time, as nothing he can do before a limit is scary in the least.
100 Gen (Saga) vs 22 Lich (FF1)- Don't think Gen can get around hold thanks to the purple eye sucking.
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1)- Evasion really, really fucks up VP fighters.

Light:

22 Anna Zirski (PS2) vs 47 Nanami (S2)
77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3)- Vaida's RES is godawful.
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC)- I think the defense boost from shields tips it.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 04:38:27 AM »
Godlike:

Dark Force (PSs) vs  Tir McDohl (Suikos) - Good match. Tir... I don't think he gets 2HKOed, unless DF2 had typical 2HKO physical backup. So, that's kinda that - Judgment, 3HKO. Granted, if DF 2HKOs, this is a whole new fight and that's that.

Heavy:

Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Claude immunes ID and goes first. I think this makes Sleep not matter unless it lasted five turns or more on average, since Marivel is not great at damage. And that's assuming she doesn't get OHKOed!
Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Lassic (PSs) - Mismatch.
Zemeckis (Brig) vs Millenia (G2) - Zemeckis doesn't OHKO. That's pretty much game.

Middle:

Bowman Jean (SO2) vs Milda (G1) - Should 2HKO first? I dunno.
Barret Wallace vs Aila (S3) - Chipping is not Aila's strong suit. And super, Barret has ID as his L2. No amount of buffing Aila does can get past that.
Gen (Saga) vs Lich (FF1) - Hold and tankishness.
Colm (FE8) vs Kashell (VP1) - Evade.

Light:

Gogen (AtLC) vs Mint (ToP) - I -think-? Gogen MDef makes Silence have issues there, if it's not perfect hit rate, and... hell, counters may well tilt this and I think Gogen had MP draining. Weird match, though.
Anna Zirski (PS2) vs Nanami (S2) - Uh, okay. Anna 3HKOs if she uses two slashers. However, this makes her defense terrible, and may get her 3HKOed by Nanami herself. Then, there's the fact that she does -two- attacks per turn, all of them subject to Nanami evasion, which should be fairly solid with her noticeably above average Tech score. And Nanami goes first to boot. So, um, yeah. Weirdass match, and incredibly unintuitive.
Vaida (FE7) vs Joker (S3) - See above.
Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius - ARGH WHAT IS WRONG WITH LIGHT.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 02:34:33 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 05:53:48 AM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3): She's a Lady...
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos): Well, if NEB is voting against a PS4 boss...

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2): Physical->stun->Mirror Slice should work, when combined with the fact that Marivel *has* to land sleep at 75% odds to win.
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4): Tonnes and tonnes of healing?
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs): Ramsus vs. High Heavy mage boss.
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2): Kaboom.

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1): Didn't Dhyer show Milda Hit was stupidly, obnoxiously powerful? Furries for Heavy, or something.
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3): ITS HAMMERTIME. L2 limit.
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1): Doubles->Smashes.

Light:

6 Gogen (AtLC) vs 90 Mint (ToP): THE GOGGLES! THEY DO NOTHING!!!! Anywho. Gogen can Dream Knock->MP absorb away a nice chunk of her healing, which should tilt an otherwise disturbingly close match.
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC): Why?

Ultradude

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 11:55:22 AM »
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3): HP is too high for Aila to chip around properly. Though, if you give level 2 limits at anything beyond 65% it becomes a much better fight.

77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3): Ooo... goes first, Joker doesn't double while charging Explosion, scrapes out a 2HKO? Maybe?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 11:58:16 AM by Ultradude »
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 05:28:53 PM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3)
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos)

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2)
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs)
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2)

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2)
vs 255 Milda (G1)
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3)
100 Gen (Saga) vs 22 Lich (FF1)
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1)

Light:

6 Gogen (AtLC) vs 90 Mint (ToP)
22 Anna Zirski (PS2) vs 47 Nanami (S2)
77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3)
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC)
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superaielman

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 05:42:12 PM »


74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1): Didn't Dhyer show Milda Hit was stupidly, obnoxiously powerful? Furries for Heavy, or something.

Light:

165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC): Why?

Bowman's DL weapon raises his HP by an extra 25%, so any threat of a fatal shot from Milda hit is pretty much zero.


And Radius's techs are wild elemental, which Vincent can and should opt to halve. It's a bit of a defense hit, but it destroys any chance Radius has to heal lock.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 05:47:00 PM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3)
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos)-Simple enough

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2)-Yeah, this is one sided.
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)-See the Elf
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs)-Splat
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2)

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1)
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3)-She can't get past Hammerblow
100 Gen (Saga) vs 22 Lich (FF1)-Pity
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1)-I think Just Plain Better works. Thanks to Colm's evasion, I doubt Kash would even be able to build up his PWS. Doubles and Counters(and doubles on counters...) just make this painful.

Light:

6 Gogen (AtLC) vs 90 Mint (ToP)->_<
22 Anna Zirski (PS2) vs 47 Nanami (S2)-Kneejerk. I'm not thinking about this. I'm just not.
77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3)-I want to say Vaida's res was bad enough to let him manage this.
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC)-Can resist wind, IIRC. So....yeah, tips this scrub off in his favor.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 12:35:17 AM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3)

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2)
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1)
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3)
100 Gen (Saga) vs 22 Lich (FF1)
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1)

Light:

6 Gogen (AtLC) vs 90 Mint (ToP)
77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3)

superaielman

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 04:57:56 PM »
Need more votes.
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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 05:08:06 PM »
Coulda sworn I did this one already...



Middle:
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3) - Limit
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1) - Evade/Speed/Etc

Light:
77 Vaida (FE7)  vs 59 Joker (S3) - Umm thought Vaida had passible resist, people tell me otherwise.  Maybe I was thinking of boss form.  Anywho, bad resist = splat here
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC) - Item ownage?

some help I am

superaielman

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 05:09:55 PM »
Vaida's RES is dogshit. 7 to like a 15 average.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 05:30:08 PM »
Vaida's RES is dogshit. 7 to like a 15 average.

Must be remembering her boss form or something, or another Flyer

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2008, 09:17:18 PM »
Godlike:

101 Wren (PS4) vs 22 Lady (SH3)- Lady
54 Dark Force (PSs) vs 25 Tir McDohl (Suikos)- Tir

Heavy:

247 Marivel Armitage (WA2) vs 16 Claude Kenni (SO2)- Claude
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)- Albert Simon. Uh, SH Speed is kind of shit for doubleturns at endgame, so I can't exactly see Demi doubling him that often since she's not horribly fast. Add in that she has to even catch up since he's getting a headstart thanks to the Initiative. She definetely needs more than 22 shots of healing since she probably 5HKOs him to me.
137 Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs 12 Lassic (PSs)- Lassic
130 Zemeckis (Brig) vs 39 Millenia (G2)- Millenia

Middle:

74 Bowman Jean (SO2) vs 255 Milda (G1)- Bowman
135 Barret Wallace (FF7) vs 227 Aila (S3)- Barret
100 Gen (Saga) vs 22 Lich (FF1)- Lich
121 Colm (FE8) vs 243 Kashell (VP1)- Colm

Light:

6 Gogen (AtLC) vs 90 Mint (ToP)- Gogen. Wow, Dream Knock->MP Drain is valid enough since Silence is blocked.
22 Anna Zirski (PS2) vs 47 Nanami (S2)- Anna. Nanami could be kind of evasive, but my gut is going with Anna.
77 Vaida (FE7) vs 59 Joker (S3)- Joker
165 Vincent DeBoule (S2) vs 106 Radius (CC)- Close match with my views. Don't care it hash it out though.
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Ultradude

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 02:23:26 AM »
Hm... I still think Vaida wins if you allow her to equip a Spear and counter magic with it. Joker's damage, even if doubled due to he 49% average res, is still 94% to just over average HP, and I can't see him doing any more (and it's a subtractive system in FE, so it should do a little less). His slow-ass charge time (65% of average) means that he's neither going first nor doubling if he uses Explosion, and Blazing Wall doesn't double either so it's a waste. Physicals blow against Vaida, as usual.

So, Vaida goes first, chucks a Spear. Joker hits her with Explosion, she narrowly survives to counter. Then, her turn comes again, and she kills Joker, as he's below average on HP and defense, and she's got slightly above average damage with a spear (if you take doubles and/or counters into the average, she's screwed, and I think some people here do?).

Granted, I haven't looked at her accuracy against his evasion which could uh... blow this whole thing right out of the water. You also have to see damage averages for both, Suiko charge times, FE defenses, and FE counters all from the same (I don't think too unreasonable or uncommon) point of view, but that's how I'm seeing it, unless someone gives me really low hit rates from Vaida against Joker with a Spear.

Also, sorry if I missed something blatantly obvious and/or made a point from a POV that I thought people held that really only I see things from.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 02:27:09 AM »
Vaida can't counter MT damage, y'know.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2008, 03:06:40 AM »
Hm... well, it's not like FE7 has any, but yeah, going by FE10, and other RPGs, I guess that makes sense. Lack of in-game, but... eh. I'll think about where I am on that one, because she needs that counter to win, she falls just short of the 2HKO with a Silver Lance, and crits attack 3 with a Killer.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2008, 05:50:11 AM »
Quote
3 Albert Simon (SH1) vs 233 Demi (PS4)- Albert Simon. Uh, SH Speed is kind of shit for doubleturns at endgame, so I can't exactly see Demi doubling him that often since she's not horribly fast. Add in that she has to even catch up since he's getting a headstart thanks to the Initiative. She definetely needs more than 22 shots of healing since she probably 5HKOs him to me.

What? How?

By your own figures, average damage is 630, and that's before factoring in that Yuri's buffs are MT. Times 3 for three PCs = about 1890. That times four = 7560... more than Albert Simon's HP (barely). He's dead to 4x average damage, and Demi is better than that. Of course he's even worse for me but that's not the point. No way he needs five hits to go down. *punts Messiah durability hype*

I recall Yuri doubling him rather frequently, and also remember that Alice/Keith would double him during damage testing once or twice, and they're below average.

The AI freedom on initiative (which I really don't agree with, overrates it even more!) does make this a close match, I guess, and I can maaaybe see voting for him even, but you really need to make all the assumptions in his favour.

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 06:06:09 AM »
So that topic HP for Messiah is 2500 HP off?
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 06:50:01 AM »
Transience's FAQ claims 7500, which... yeah, is about what I remember when I rechecked him for that a few years back. 10000 is... maybe right after his one use of Grace, so it's possible OK made a mistake resulting from that.

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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 09:43:54 AM »
Yeah, retesting I'm going to guess 7800. Wasn't dead at 7700, but died before 8000. So Demi does 4HKO...but I don't think that changes anything because...SH speed has to be the absolutely worthless speed in any RPG EVER. As far as I can tell, Albert is likely average speed and his second turn is slow (I think his second turn automatically can't double anything. Could be true of any in game initiative. However, he then started going in front of a 45 speed character the turn after, indicating that the second turn does have a lag. However, Yuri was never able to double Albert. This was after 20 normal Yuri turns and then 20 normal SR turns). So yeah, SH speed for fail. Other than the second turn, Albert is 7% slower than Demi to me, so she's not getting in anywhere near the amount of doubles she needs.

On the AI note...it's AI. Can't really see the argument for locking him into using his first turn that way if we don't do that for other bosses that always use the same move on their first turns.
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Re: Full Ranking Tournament: Round 2, Week 8
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 05:13:37 PM »
That doubling thing strongly contradicts my memories, so I'm not sure what's up there. The fact that I have memories of Alice/Keith doubling the guy (without the speed booster) are why I first started calling the guy slow in the first place, so I don't think there's any way I could have made those up It's possible SH speed is fucked up in a Xenosaga-like way though... or something. I really have no idea now!

And the AI argument... initiative turns are like counter turns to me, they're not ordinary turns, and generallising what one can do on them doesn't seem fair. Reminds me too much of FF7 Sneak Attack or PCRPG contingency - the move is set before the battle begins and can't be selected on a whim. FFX First Strike does exist as a counterexample, but I'm more inclined to call FFX First Strike awesome. Regardless, Albert has total AI freedom on every turn except the first strike one... which is locked into a single move. The combination there is way too suspicious to me.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.