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Author Topic: DL Team Draft!  (Read 1493 times)

SnowFire

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DL Team Draft!
« on: September 03, 2016, 05:50:31 PM »
Tide trotted this idea out…  well, months ago, but we never got around to doing it.  Since "everyone potentially interested on IRC at once" never seemed to happen, let's just do it asynchronously via spreadsheet.

Post here if you're interested in signing up!  Despite the amount of verbiage that can be spilled, this will not be a SUPER serious affair.  There is not going to be a tournament or anything afterward, just random BS theorycraft about how the teams would likely match up.  No prizes for "winning," no penalty for "losing." 

Arbitrary rules / conventions:

A) Draft a team of 1x Godlike, 1x Heavy, 1x Middle, 1x Light in any order.  It'll be a snake draft.  See https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WOoKxk1ten_NsoyNS5nAERcQGPyK4J4SehFwBQOoVds/edit?usp=sharing for a sample draft in progress that is waiting on Random to pick, then Tide to get 2x picks, then Random to get a pick, then Elf, etc.  Initial order will be randomly selected.

B) (optional) When you sign up, consider including an email addy - or even just PM it to me if you would prefer to not post it in the thread.  Ideally GMail, but can be anything.  Why?  See the comment on the sample sheet in Cell C5 - when someone makes a pick, they can drop a comment (Insert-> Comment) on the cell that should be picked next, and ping the next person with +youremailaddresshere@gmail.com .  They'll get a notification on their phone/desktop/whatever that it's their turn to pick.  This GREATLY speeds up such drafts vs. having people check manually if it's their turn.

C) For this particular draft, we are assuming a 4 vs. 4 team battle a la Nyarlie's.  Maybe a future draft will assume an "RPGMon" format where 1 dueler is trotted out at a time, but not this one.

D) The goal is to draft a team capable of defeating the other drafted teams, not make a generically strong team capable of handling unknown threats.  This may get a bit wacky if there's only a small number of drafters, but the point is, if you can draft a "counter" to a strategy someone else is using that isn't dead weight elsewhere, go nuts.

E) Picks need to be from CKDL-legal games.  We will use the old DL ranking list as frozen in time as it is for ease of argument, less games that aren't CKDL legal (Brigandine, Phantasy Star 2, etc.).  Yes, it's probably "wrong" in places (especially for characters whose interps have changed over time), but the whole point of a draft is to exploit the misranks and the like, and it's more objective than arguing over a new ranking.  We can always "fix" blatant power picks if we do the experiment again.
http://www.rpgdl.com/tournament/rankings.php?mode=char_game&order=ASC
Two asterisks, though:
* The last season upgrades / downgrades are bugged, unfortunately.  :(  e.g. Lilka (WA2) won a match to stay in Heavy, but incorrectly "upgraded" to Godlike, while Meru, who lost a match to upgrade to Heavy, downgraded to Light rather than stay in Middle.  Ignore the bugs & listed ranking in this case.  For a list of potential bug'd duelers, look at
http://www.rpgdl.com/tournament/results.php?week=377
* For CKDL games that weren't in the DL - or PC duelers from ranked games that weren't DL-ranked (e.g. random Pokemon, FF5 classes) - you'll just have to use your best judgment.  Ideally being able to cite a CKDL appearance in which they didn't champ the division in question would be nice.  (Clearly we need to get Dhyer to post his giant list o' doom.)

Sign up!  It's literally just 4 picks, it'll be fast & easy.

Tide

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2016, 05:11:55 AM »
In. I should be anyway, since it's my idea :P
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2016, 06:29:39 PM »
I am interested.

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Reiska

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 12:15:51 AM »
Sure, I'll bite.

AndrewRogue

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 01:18:22 AM »
Eh. Sure.

superaielman

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2016, 08:15:36 PM »
Sure, in.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2016, 10:42:06 PM »
I should probably sign up then huh.
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Pyro

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2016, 12:40:58 AM »
I guess I should do it too? I don't plan on putting too much thought into it though.

Does this include Bosses? I see no prohibition against that.

SnowFire

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2016, 02:12:15 AM »
Awesome, we have 8.  Gonna close sign-ups tomorrow, so if you're interested, last chance to join up.

Pyro, this includes bosses.  (Certainly for RPGMon, it might make more sense to exclude bosses as a few of them cheat horribly there or otherwise end up wacky...)

Re Pyro on research, would people want some general thoughts on power picks posted publicly?  Might make it so that there's slightly less blindsiding of certain power picks, but might also make the draft more samey and less unique per drafter.  Okay with either option.

I will say that note that the following games are now ranked in the CKDL, but not in the grand list o' doom of the old DL:

Bravely Default, Breath of Death, Cthulhu Saves the World, FE6, FE13, Final Fantasy XIII, Mana Khemia 2, Gen 4 Pokemon, Radiant Historia, Suikoden Tierkreis, and XS3.

There's also various "CKDL-ranked" characters that weren't originally ranked that have seen some play in the CKDL (e.g. random Pokemon, FFX rando-bosses, FF5 classes).

And one nitpicky notes that hopefully won't matter much:

* The old DL rankings were made before XS3 was ranked in the CKDL.  As such, for this event, let's consider the XS3 forms separate from the XS1+2 forms.  (This is basically an "XS3 Jin is not a Light" clause, as he'd surely have been re-ranked a la Hrist had XS3 ever been ranked in the vanilla DL.)

--

One note - for characters on the Godlike / Bluelike border or who just don't get in due to wackiness issues, can people raise them now?  super mentioned P4 Izanami for example, which seems like it only got in CKDL Godlike once and champed, so I think we can safely say that one isn't legal.  I'd lean toward a similar stance for, say, BD Airy who only seems to have been used in a Shift tournament and never in the CKDL proper.  If someone wants to argue something like this should be legal, fine, let's stick 'em in, but be open about it from the start.

From the list above:
BD bosses other than Airy & Oury are probably all fine (e.g. Braev, Alternis). 
MK2 Tetri/Uryu/Reicher seem fine.
FF13 Cid, Bart, & Orphan are all probably harmless.
RH Apocraphya is probably fine.
BoD/CstW/FEs/Poke/Tier/XS3 don't have any notable High Godlikes to my recollection.

That look fine, or do we want to widen things up?

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2016, 03:47:54 AM »
I'd probably avoid Kamiizumi as well?

CStW might have some fairly High Godlikes among its bosses but since they don't have stat topic entries I highly doubt anyone would (or should) nom them.

I'm not sure how people feel about certain duellers with large interp splits. I suppose it's easy enough to nom people with a specific game, less easy to deal with Rikku-type folks.

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SnowFire

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2016, 06:33:22 PM »
I'm not too worried about interp splits because, well, there isn't actually a tournament or anything.  If you grab Rikku as your underpriced Middle, everyone will shrug and say "uh, probably awesome if given items, probably subpar otherwise."  If you grab Rikku in Godlike, then we all know what you mean.

I'm fine with disallowing Kamiizumi mostly because he's obnoxious in the DL so probably uber-Godlike there, for all that he's a *lot* fairer in team matches than in duels.  (If he plays passive, then the other team can basically ignore the other team's Godlike by using only ST or small area attacks, which is often a huge advantage.)

Anyway, I think I'll pass on too much public speculation, but I think it is fair to mention two notable power picks, especially since one is from a comparatively low-votership CKDL game that barely ever gets in, but both are pretty famous from Nyarlie's dungeon.  Those are Tidus (FFX) in Heavy & Jane Maxwell (WAACF) in Light.  Sonic Steel Tidus has really badass initiative which he can use to cast Hastega (or, against Lady, Slowga), give his team the drop, and then further continue burying the opposition with Too Many Turns.  Jane is a little less good but only costs your Light slot: she has a move, Follow Me, which doesn't cause Jane to do anything, but goes off at initiative speed, and causes everyone else in her team to have their actions resolve right now.  So the whole team gets initiative.  (Unlike Tidus's buff, it is turn-based, so it doesn't make turn 2 come any faster, and it's not granting turns or anything, so I don't think Jane + Yulie = infinite turns or something.)  Even if you bother to draft your own counter-initiative, Jane is also really fast, so she probably outraces something like a Pokemon's Fake Out unless they're also ludicrously fast.  Anyway, since Team battles are often bloodbaths where everything is decided on turn 1, being able to draft slow-but-powerful characters and have them go first anyway is hugely powerful.  Back when the Dungeon was ran, Neph had to keep increasing the price on these folks and eventually outright banning Sonic Steel, because this could be so decisive.

SnowFire

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2016, 06:39:46 PM »
Anyway!  I have bot rolled up our draft order.  Nobody other than Tide & me submitted emails, so guess it might just be "ping the next person on IRC, or via private message."

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WOoKxk1ten_NsoyNS5nAERcQGPyK4J4SehFwBQOoVds/edit?usp=sharing

Andy, you're up first!

SnowFire

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 02:02:45 AM »
Since Andy is in Las Vegas with perfect anti-timing for the start, I've swapped him to the last part of the pick order w/ Tide just to get things moving.

superaielman

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 11:40:47 AM »
Cmdr next I believe.
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Reiska

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2016, 11:49:50 PM »
Your pick, NEB!

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2016, 12:41:56 AM »
Andy with the next two.

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AndrewRogue

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2016, 01:37:58 AM »
I'll get my picks up tonight. Sorry, didn't realize this had started.

AndrewRogue

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2016, 04:53:12 AM »
All you NEB

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2016, 06:06:38 AM »
Sir Reiska, it is your move

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superaielman

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2016, 04:37:36 PM »
Sent snowfire in my pick, as I can't access the spreadsheet from work. E: Sent snowfire my pick E2: I went full Oooh elfboy with my last pick.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 11:39:38 AM by superaielman »
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
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Nephrite

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Re: DL Team Draft!
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2016, 02:56:00 AM »
Super, I'm blaming you for not letting me know about this.