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Author Topic: Thoughts on gamergate  (Read 26544 times)

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #125 on: December 06, 2014, 11:54:31 AM »
Quote
Atlas shrugged so hard he almost fell off his dad's couch.

The whole video really was worth watching just for that line.

metroid composite

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #126 on: December 06, 2014, 12:24:41 PM »
My favourite part is

"Don't get him started on Karl Marx, a guy whose works he's totally read."

"The capitalist class stole all the money, so we're going to burn down their houses and rape their children and torture them and hang them and take their property and then we'll have a socialist utopia" - Karl Marx

"He knowwwwws, he knowwwwwws, he knowwwwwssssssss."

Fenrir

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #127 on: December 06, 2014, 04:01:51 PM »
Yeah you don't need to look too far to see that this guy is insane.

Actually now google also recommends the amazing atheist videos :(

The Duck

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #128 on: December 06, 2014, 05:33:44 PM »
why does that guy have a skull

The Duck

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #129 on: December 06, 2014, 05:35:14 PM »
like where do you get a skull

(is that 50 Cent's skull)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 05:38:01 PM by The Duck »

Grefter

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #130 on: December 06, 2014, 09:43:34 PM »
Some internet thinks you can go into your YouTube account settings and delete the specific videos from your viewing history, some internet says that doesn't work.

Alternative is to go into a bunch of his shit and Dislike it.

Edit - guy' comedic timing is pretty perfect on the last part where he loses his shit over the skull.

Also to answer your question here is where you buy skulls.  You buy skulls from skullsunlimited.com.  This is perfect.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 09:56:24 PM by Grefter »
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Excal

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #131 on: December 07, 2014, 12:31:20 AM »
I kinda like the debate as to whether he simply has one skull that he moves all over the place, or simply has a skull for every room in his house.

Fenrir

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #132 on: December 07, 2014, 12:35:32 AM »
Woah there.
I can get you skulls for way cheaper.


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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #134 on: December 07, 2014, 03:11:50 PM »
SHININGPIKATENDO
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

NotMiki

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #135 on: December 07, 2014, 04:04:43 PM »
Wait a sec, does that mean there's only one female party member other than the MC?  Or are there more and they're just not into you no matter how awesome your dialogue choices are.

Mixed Messages: "Devs, women are underrepresented in this game.  We need more female party members, so I can bang them."
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 04:13:30 PM by NotMiki »
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Fenrir

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #136 on: December 07, 2014, 04:15:31 PM »
There's one lesbian and one girl the player can't romance among the PCs apparently.

I had only read the first post, didn't notice the posts that said "We already talked about that a million times!!!"  ....
I don't think I've ever seen entitlement that was this ridiculous and this transparent.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #137 on: December 07, 2014, 05:30:54 PM »
God forbid these games add any PCs not interested in banging the player character.

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Maybe.

The Duck

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2014, 05:33:22 PM »
The term is relatively new to me, but is there anyone who unironically uses the term "SJW" as a pejorative who isn't a cretin?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 05:36:43 PM by The Duck »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2014, 05:36:47 PM »
I'm not sure it's possible to use the term as a slur without sounding like a complete asshat.

The fact that anyone can say that as if it is an insult is kinda mindblowing. "Fuck you for caring about the downtrodden of society."


Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
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Grefter

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2014, 06:07:49 PM »
It is a relatively old term that was prominent when people started getting mad at people other people for being mad on tumblr about social issues and for wanting to create little niche communities and promote acceptance for various subcultures that don't fit your social norms or promoting acceptance and caring for others feelings and problems.  It was the usual "you are just posting on the Internet doing nothing" keyboard warrior stuff.  Which of course completely ignores the fact that creating communities like this is in fact doing something positive for the disenfranchised.  People are mad that the minority have a place that can make their voice heard amongst people that want to hear it instead of conforming and fitting the faceless mass of the internet.

So no.

I guarantee that this "unequal representation" in male romanceable characters is a direct response to market research showing that straight women care more about the romance choices in Bioware games than straight men do.  This is the first time in a Bioware game that the number of romanceable characters falls down like this in 16 years of them making games with the mechanic.

The "betrayal" in Mass Effect 3 was having a whopping 2 gay male romance choices I assume. 
In the cast there is a whopping 3 male characters that you can romance and one ode them is exclusively gay, one is open to both genders (because Kaidan).  Oh and the last one is an alien (but it is okay it is Garrus).

There is 11 romance choices between Femshep and Maleshep, 7 that MaleShep can do. 5 that Femshep can do.  #politicacorrectnessgone2far

Edit - and of course you can't just tell the best story that you can with romances that will fit into the narrative, they have to be staistically fair!!!!!!!

Edit 2 - This is the hideous mutant that you can choose to romance.  No wonder they are mad.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 06:23:20 PM by Grefter »
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The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
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NotMiki

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2014, 09:34:28 PM »
It's perfectly fine to complain about lack of M=>F romancin' choices in your vidjgame.  It's a game, after all, and there's nothing wrong with complaining that it could have been more fun for you with X Y or Z change.  Just don't preface that argument with a complain that the menfolks don't get enough compared to the wimminfolks.  (The heavy implication that women should have gotten LESS just to keep them in line with men is particularly special.)
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
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Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
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Excal

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2014, 10:25:21 PM »
I just love the whole "Someone has to speak up for the fans!!!" part.  Because no one else would ever dare to criticize Bioware.  I mean, I remember when ME3 came out, there were all these people who wanted to say something, but vocally disagreeing with Bioware?  Never!

On a side note, it seems that a charity for disabled gamers decided they did not want money from GG.  GG responds with a DDoS attack and mass rage.

https://archive.today/tym9I

Fenrir

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #143 on: December 07, 2014, 10:50:13 PM »
Man. I looked it up and it's actually worse than that:

http://www.ablegamers.com/ablegamers-news/ablegamers-statements-about-this-weekend

"AbleGamers did not deny donations from GamerGate. We declined to be a party to an event where there was a lack of transparency, and people began discussing how to use the event as a weapon for the agenda of a political movement."

metroid composite

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #144 on: December 08, 2014, 04:37:16 AM »
For those of you with degrees in humanities, it's time for Sokal Hoax, gamergate edition

http://gamergate.me/2014/12/behind-the-patina-sarkeesian/

Grefter

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #145 on: December 08, 2014, 09:03:23 AM »
https://twitter.com/srhbutts/status/541693082342014976

Add death threats to the list of things going on with Able Gamers.  Of course the thing we should toot our horns about is "How about you PROVE" death threats came from Gamergate, because that is more important than the fact that some fucking douche is sending death threats to charities for any fucking reason.

Edit - Just with a reminder since it wasn't posted in here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2ofzo3/gg_porn_charity_featuring_mercedes_carrera/

Here is the original thread where they talk specifically about not mentioning the association to Gamergate.

Quote
-Charity finally confirmed happening on January 2nd 2015, on a site called Webcams.com. I will be handing out a way to enter the site for free. Unfortunately I cannot mention directly that this is a GG stream as it might shy away BZ and others. For now it will be a charity stream.

So when AbleGamers say
Quote
AbleGamers did not deny donations from GamerGate. We declined to be a party to an event where there was a lack of transparency, and people began discussing how to use the event as a weapon for the agenda of a political movement.

It is literally about transparency and disclosure of an agenda or bias.  So you know acting as an open ethical not for profit component of the games industry.

I probably should have a kermit sipping tea meme here or something.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 09:12:20 AM by Grefter »
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Grefter

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #146 on: December 08, 2014, 01:16:05 PM »
Also now that I have tried to read more than a paragraph of that bad fake.  That shit reads more like HP Lovecraft than an academic paper.  Literally substituting basic English words for "means something similar but would only ever be used in a specific scenario" words.

This is what fucking 14 year olds think academia is like.

Quote
“Knowledge is not for knowing: knowledge is for cutting” was the aphorism of France’s influential post-war thinker, Michel Foucault, who is one of Sarkeesian’s philosophical influences, and it is one that Sarkeesian could well apply to her own body of work. But employing Foucauldian tools to chisel into the nature of power and oppression in pop culture requires at the outset a characterization of power (that itself rests on assumptions), or else any sustained analysis would have no political bite. But to offer what is power leads to the pernicious effect of considering where is power. In taking Foucault’s claim in The History of Sexuality that “power is everywhere” including all that such a colorable pretense entails, the entire thing seems to become relatively homogeneous — and so power is ostensibly nowhere. Just like the perception that darkness is the privation of light, an antipode of relation to power is resistance, whose existence is dependent on a certain social actor; and since society can’t exist without power because it is omnipresent, then under Foucault’s oeuvre, human agency and emancipation is rather nonsensical.

This both reads like "I have no idea what the fuck I am talking about" and like Douglas Adams.

Quote
“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”


― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


Quote
While decrying capitalism foisted upon the culture industry with the Dadaist spirit which Sarkeesian affects, she has fully funded her current web series, “Tropes vs. Women in Video Games,” through a version of bottom-up capitalism (i.e., crowdfunding), and amassed six-figures over her original requested amount. It quickly becomes clear that Sarkeesian is able to reconcile her personal views of capitalism, that of a growing pillar of oppression, with her craving to become a pop culture critic. That she conveniently massages her belief system in favor of private ventures says more about her than anything else.

Now I probably should watch Sarkeesian's videos myself to find this out, but I was under the expectation that her videos on Feminism don't actually go on Socialist rants?  So this would be someone going on completely unrelated rants about their own specific interpretation of the views of the presenter rather than the literal body of work presented.  Someone want to fill me in on that?  If they are feminist videos full of Marxist ranting then suffice to say I don't need to be donating to Able Gamers any time soon.

Also what in the actual fuck does where she got money from have to do with anything and is this seriously suggesting that she is doing terrible things because she is using the money exactly what the kickstarter said it would be for instead of taking the money and running?  Or returning to private industry?

The quotes they cherry pick to use as examples of her being "Marxist" are

Quote
ike the atavistic leftovers of Marxian dialectics, Sarkeesian points to capitalism as the root and wellspring of patriarchy and class struggle:

We should have better representations, but in our fight for media justice we have to push back against the social systems that maintain dominant [sic] cultural norms such as patriarchy, white supremacy, and capitalism.
She later writes:

…shouldn’t the villain not be one single bad person but rather acknowledging that the root of our problems lie in institutional systems? It’s not about the singular evil corporation but the entire way corporations exist within capitalism.

Neither of which is saying anything about Capitalism being the root of all evil.  It is saying Capitalism is an intrinsic social norm these days and to use a real world issue as an example, that something like say wide approval of credit far beyond people's ability to pay back might have be an institutional problem and not just the actions of one bank.

Quote
When Sarkeesian’s rhetoric twists into a personal moral prerogative, her morally loaded and provocative language brings an undercurrent of flippant, almost otiose acquiescence to an unchallenged moral authority which lays itself open to parody. Curiously enough, in all her charges of oppression (mentioned no less than twenty times), Sarkeesian never offers the basis of her criterion for the intuitive notion of “oppression,” a term which is heavily value-loaded, both morally and politically. In the Philosophische Bemerkungen, Ludgwig Wittgenstein considered when “two men mean the same by the word ‘white’,” and asserted that the meaning was determined by “how you are searching” for the answer. There is no evidence to qualify and explain Sarkeesian’s methods, or lack thereof, in answering her self-question: “what does a female hero (and even a male hero) look like outside of patriarchy?” This central question is left unanswered.

This entire paragraph is a pile of fucking stupid.

Quote
When Sarkeesian’s rhetoric twists into a personal moral prerogative, her morally loaded and provocative language brings an undercurrent of flippant, almost otiose acquiescence to an unchallenged moral authority which lays itself open to parody.

This sentence says absolutely nothing.  It is literally "Because she believes something we can laugh in her face".  Academic!

Quote
Curiously enough, in all her charges of oppression (mentioned no less than twenty times), Sarkeesian never offers the basis of her criterion for the intuitive notion of “oppression,” a term which is heavily value-loaded, both morally and politically.

Again, I should watch the videos, but I kind of thought she actively is trying to show people how this oppression works.  I am sorry this concept couldn't be boiled down into a single line sound bite for the writer, but as someone who has read Foucault they may realise that Power structures are actually quite complex and difficult to describe within modern sociological frameworks, but even if you actively reject them out of hand like we do here, Power and the way it interacts was still quite hard to describe even in more classical structuralist frameworks. 

Quote
In the Philosophische Bemerkungen, Ludgwig Wittgenstein considered when “two men mean the same by the word ‘white’,” and asserted that the meaning was determined by “how you are searching” for the answer.

If only there was some highly educated philosopher with works on definition of terminology and meaning that had already been introduced into this conversation earlier that was pertinently relevant that could be referenced instead of bringing up a singular unrelated theorist from the early 1900s instead of one more relevant to modern theories.  I suppose no such theorist exists however so we must make do with what we have.

Quote
There is no evidence to qualify and explain Sarkeesian’s methods, or lack thereof, in answering her self-question: “what does a female hero (and even a male hero) look like outside of patriarchy?” This central question is left unanswered.

You mean like *gasp* that maybe the Power exerted by the Patriarchy that she is discussing might be ever present and exerting influence into all our media by subtle and complex mechanisms and that while there is a strong patriarchal society with no space that is not influenced by it, we may be entirely unable to answer this question?  It sure is a shame that an inability to produce and answer completely invalidates the existence of a question to begin with.  I was really looking forward to finding out what a male hero looked like outside of a patriarchy.  I bet he is hot and has a huge dick.

And on that note I am out.  Fuck this nonsense and fuck me for being stupid enough to even read any of it.

Edit - Nope I am a fucking moron, the last paragraph set me off more and I couldn't leave well enough alone.

Quote
Despite sciolistic posturing about ills traced to patriarchy in Western civilizations, Sarkeesian enjoys far laxer academic scrutiny and far more media acclaim, the sycophantic, often panegyrical, and nearly always smarmy push of coverage from the credulous herd of journalists on their pet idol of the hour forming the core of her widespread propaganda.

Take THAT Youtube videos!  You should be peer reviewed just like all the other Academic journals!  What would a woman know about "oppression" from the "Patriarchy" with her "Masters degree" in "Social and Political Thought". Clearly she is presenting a BARELY researched poorly thought out diatribe on a topic she has no education in.  This clearly shows in the fact that she gets media coverage from people in the industry that she is talking about very directly.  Unless of course they meant something different than Sciolistic than the dictionary definition.  OH MAYBE THE DUDE FROM HARVARD IS SAYING SHE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT VIDEO GAMES.  That must be it.  I mean it isn't mentioned anywhere else in the article, but that must be it.  That or Harvard be fronting on York and shit gonna get real soon.

Quote
One is strongly reminded of the indefatigable Dutch feminist and political author, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, striving to recall the founding concerns of feminist theology. She writes in her memoir, Nomad:

There was a long article in The New York Times that went on and on about who [in a couple] would load and unload the dishwasher. If you have a career and you’re so intelligent, you can work that out. You don’t have to have a manifesto. There is feminism that has evolved to a kind of luxury.

This only says or means anything if you are out of hand completely dismissive of there being anything to discuss here about Feminism or that there is already a mass of equality in video games and the video games industry.  No one is that fucking stupid right?

Quote
The more Sarkeesian critiques pop culture for a wide audience, the closer it circles in to the day that the world may know that all that glitters is not gold.


Indeed.  The more people that see criticism of pop culture the more hopes we have that video games are not fucking flawless and perfect the way they are.

I think we had better flood the area with cool water for 20 minutes or until help arrives because that dis to Anita is an
[blink]ACID BURN[/blink]
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 01:44:36 PM by Grefter »
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #147 on: December 09, 2014, 08:05:30 AM »
So...Grace Lynn (formerly Devi Ever) has a video that I found extremely valuable to watch; explains how she got roped into a hate movement in March, how she got out, how crazy she now realizes it all sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cBt9QM5Iw

metroid composite

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #148 on: December 10, 2014, 08:36:56 AM »
Interesting followup on maninblack's talk about chan culture and how it's informing gamergate:

https://storify.com/donnie_is_ok/gamergate-chan-culture-and-identity

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Re: Thoughts on gamergate
« Reply #149 on: December 10, 2014, 02:29:06 PM »
Sorry, but can you expand on what you found enlightening about the youtube video you posted? I watched like 20 minutes of it but it just seemed like a really long, rambling rant where she kinda berates herself for doing shitty things and emphasizes that she realizes now that she was being shitty. I didn't really get any of the how. Definitely the "what", and maybe a little bit of the personal why (which I don't think she is introspective enough to articulate in a way that goes beyond what she was personally going through), but definitely none of the how. I dunno, maybe I went in with incorrect expectations that colored my viewing of it but it seemed pretty... uninformative, overall.

Your Storify link however basically sums up everything that didn't sit right with me about the ManInBlack's link a few posts ago but couldn't really articulate myself. Anonymity in itself is an identity and that sort of mob rule, that enforces itself socially through the philosophy of "the nail that sticks up must be beaten down" naturally leads itself to the sort of harmful hegemony that arose from the so-called "Chan culture." And while ManInBlack's posts may explain the WHY behind the behavior and feelings of those who consider themselves a part of #gamergate it does not at all give an excuse for the behavior nor forgive the (actively, demonstrably harmful*) consequences of their actions.

*A point, I would like to re-emphasize, is the reason that willful neutrality and pretending that pro- and anti-gamergate sentiment is a wholly incorrect and as willfully ignorant as it is neutral position to take. These arguments aren't happening in a vacuum.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:49:23 PM by Makkotah »