Author Topic: The Final Fantasy 3/6 Eviltype 1.1 and Variations topic (Read 27372 times)

TigerKnee · « **Reply #25 on:** April 30, 2011, 04:34:12 AM »

Can I assume that save files from whatever the previous "official" version off Romhacking.net will work with this new version?

SageAcrin · « **Reply #26 on:** April 30, 2011, 06:03:31 AM »

Yeah, there shouldn't be a problem that I'm aware of. I've taken save files backwards and forwards through the game's different beta versions, for testing purposes, and never noticed any issues.

The only time save files should get wonky is if you try to take a save to or from Eviltype White. The utterly different EXP curve would probably cause some issues there.

But yeah, as far as I can tell moving from version to version otherwise seems fine for equipment and monster stats, and while I suppose the newest version gives you a whole 9 extra HP that you might not get if you transferred a file to it, this isn't going to matter after Whelk(the reason the 9 HP was added was that sequence, so.).

(Edit: Felt like checking. It does work to transfer a file to White, but it's not a good idea. It just instantly levels you a ton after the next fight, since until L50 or so, the raw EXP to gain a level is way lower in White than it is in normal Eviltype. Normally, the EXP *gains* are lower too, but...

But yeah, that's just White though.)

Nephrite · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:58:42 AM »

Did a little grinding outside the Returners, got everyone to level 10.

LETE RIVER

...In the first battle, an enemy Exocite used Scissors on Banon for 100 damage, which was followed up by a Pterodon's Fireball for 97 to everyone. GAME OVER

Attempt 2: Keep Pterodon's confused 100% of the time. Got it. Did a little more grinding on the Infinite Loop to get everyone to around 12 to 13.

***FIRST DEMON: ULTROS***

Attempt #1: Was doing fine until he double-acted MT Tentacle and then ST Tentacle on Banon.
Attempt #2: He did it again, but thankfully this time he Tentacled Edgar rather than Banon. Whew.

**TERRA'S SCENARIO**

Boring as it always is.

**SABIN'S SCENARIO**

Haven't really noticed much except I'm using more SHURIKENS so far. The enemies are more durable (duh) but don't really hit that much harder.

Phantom Train was pretty unexciting... didn't expect ZIEKFRIED to be an actual fight but hey.

***THE SECOND DEMON: GHOST TRAIN***

Used a lot of Potions. Shadow got Evil Toot'ed into Berserk at the start but he had Running Shoes so eh.

***THE THIRD DEMON: RIZOPAS***

Attempt #1: El Nino killed both Sabin and Cyan. Hm...
Attempt #2: El Nino reduced me to such low health that I couldn't do anything, then he killed me with Ice. ...
Attempt #3: Didn't get unlucky this time! Hooray!

Still enjoying it, despite some hiccups that I can't really avoid.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:56:27 PM »

I won't defend Rizopas; He's the worst design in the game, and mostly used because he's practically the only example of an enemy that can be effectively identical to an FF6 enemy, outside of HP, and suddenly become monstrously effective from just a decent HP value. Bit of a conciet as a design; It's possible to reliably kill him but you need to be prohibitively proactive about healing, to the point where it's annoying.

Pretty bad luck with Pteradons, especially as they can't just lead off with Fire Ball. That's triggered after a certain amount of total actions by...forget off the top of my head if it was the same class of enemy, or all the enemies on the field(All of the Lete River enemies had a jerk action they did, like that. Pteradons always could use Fire Ball, it just never would end up seen because they had to be alone too, IIRC.).

Ultros is of course another case of leaving too much of the original script intact, giving it HP, and watching it be a bastard. Not that I didn't add some bastardy, but it's after the "I specifically try to one-shot the person you need to keep alive" part of the script, and nothing I added really compares to that.

You know, most of the nastier designs come from doing that, thinking on it. FF6 had a lot of nasty script backends. Fortunately, once you get past Narshe Kefka, you hit the point where I stop trusting the game to do anything remotely right on offense, mostly because it doesn't do anything remotely right on offense. mmmm 5HKOs.

Nephrite · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:44:55 PM »

Things are definitely getting a lot easier now that I have actual resources to heal easily. Dying because of a cheap boss... eh, all the saves before bosses are literally ...right there.

Nephrite · « **Reply #30 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:52:55 AM »

Did some Veldt Hunting.

Notable things for my own resources:

Bleary - Death
Hazer - Bolt 2
Marshal - Wind Slash
Telstar - Fire Beam

Finished Sabin's scenario with no issue.

**LOCKE'S SCENARIO**

Pretty standard so far, wasn't expecting the B. Day Suit enemy to put up a fight.

*Gets to Officer enemy, has unsuccessful steal 10 times in a row*

Damn you, Locke.

The escape from Figaro went incredibly smoothly, thank you for remembering that section BLOWS ASS with just the two of them.

**THE FOURTH DEMON, TUNNEL ARMOR***

He casts Holy!? Well okay then. Which spell did you replace?

Either way, super easy fight. Definitely was NOT expecting the Holy though, that was awesome.

**THE BATTLE FOR NARSHE**

I went with a team of Edgar, Gau, Locke and Celes and just ran them around killing everything. I'm sure I could have done a team of 3/3/2 but I saw no real need to.

**THE FOURTH.5 DEMON: RIDER**

Ow, Silver Pike hurts.

...!? What the hell is Virite? It overkilled poor Gau! Oh, he was weak to it because he was in Marshal rage, got it.

Oh well it is dead now.

**THE FIFTH DEMON: NARSHE KEFKA**

well he can open with W. Wind now, that's a bit of an ouchie...

The fight was... well, I used Celes, so it was a joke. Locke tried to steal the entire time and failed at it. Thanks Locke, you're worthless.

Oh yeah Kefka died to being Poisoned.

Going with a Locke, Gau, Edgar and Celes team to Zozo.

The trip to Zozo was pretty uneventful, didn't really notice anything different from normal.

**ZOZO**

Uneventful. The Elixir and X-Potion spam was cute, if nothing else.

Slam Dancers can still go die in a fire.

**THE SIXTH DEMON: DADALUMA**

Not an issue at all. He did crit and killed Celes though!

The Desperation thing he did was cute but since I had Edgar I drilled his face in. It's weird how I never realized how good ITD attacks in this game were.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #31 on:** May 06, 2011, 05:34:25 PM »

Quote

The escape from Figaro went incredibly smoothly, thank you for remembering that section BLOWS ASS with just the two of them.

It really does.

Quote

Pretty standard so far, wasn't expecting the B. Day Suit enemy to put up a fight.

That and a few other randoms are basically the Evade patch enemy bonuses. B.Day's 96% Evade(In practice, 50% or so, as Locke's weapons have higher than 100% Hit.) is not present without an Evade patch. An occasional few nasties to balance out a general bonus early on(as Evade patch is mostly PC-positive, especially early). See, I really did put effort into it!

Quote

He casts Holy!? Well okay then. Which spell did you replace?

Either way, super easy fight. Definitely was NOT expecting the Holy though, that was awesome.

Flare and Ultima(The latter being only 256 HP or lower; Basically even a total easter egg, as him tossing out MT high power spells a lot *could* be a dick move.) too.

None of them actually replaces a spell; He casts Fire less and uses physicals a little less, instead.

Quote

The trip to Zozo was pretty uneventful, didn't really notice anything different from normal.

Partially a statement on what's there before, partially because your team and it's abilities are incredibly fluid in that part and I assumed on the lower end. Fire Dance is possible, Shadow's Skeans(which are nearly L3s in power) are possible, etc.

Still, stuff like Mind Candy(the blue bees) having like 2.5x their original HP and notably more damage/better skillset(Mute as well as Sleep) is a statement on that section's original lack of difficulty. They still aren't too dangerous even then.

Nephrite · « **Reply #32 on:** May 10, 2011, 10:57:49 PM »

**OPERA HOUSE**

Uneventful, almost ran out of time fighting the rats but I think I'd have been fine either way.

**THE SEVENTH DEMON, ULTROS again**

L2 Daze is kind of funny. Too bad 2 of my characters can be hit by it.

Interesting status whore boss with nothing else of note. I used some Softs! Woo!

Side Note, I went to the Imperial Base outside the Sealed Cave and got decimated by all the enemies spamming Bolt 2. Seems like I just got unlucky since they only have the MP to do it once. Oh well, bought 3 Wall Rings, that solved the problem. It's also totally unnecessary to even come here but free Tents are nice.

**MAGITEK RESEARCH FACILITY**

Pretty standard, Hazer Rage owns everything here.

**THE EIGHTH AND NINTH DEMONS: IFRIT AND SHIVA**

So, apparently Both of them are immune to Tek Laser. Bleh. I died once because Shiva's Ice 2 does like 300 damage. Ouch.

Won anyway, but it was certainly a lot more challenging than I was expecting, mainly due to Tek Laser being... I have no idea what element it is but they null both!

EDIT: Wow, flans are supremely annoying... you pretty much get one turn before they either Muddle your entire team or put them all to sleep. Just thought I'd share.

I stole an Air Anchor from the Rhinox on the way to the Magicite Facility, I'll try and avoid using it too much though.

**THE TENTH DEMON: PROGRAM 024**

You may want to speed up the time he does Wall Change, I got him down to about 6,000 HP before he did it once.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #33 on:** May 11, 2011, 03:00:12 AM »

Tek Laser's lightning. Ifrit and Shiva null all elements except Ice and Fire, which they take turns absorbing and being weak to.

Yeah, already got a RC4 cooking that's based on some of the steals we've talked about. Frankly I never expected someone to go over the steal list that thoroughly, to a degree, though it's certainly useful. (This after seeing someone dump a 1.08 Rage list once, something *I'm* too lazy to do. I really need to accept that people like my patch or something.)

Flans're in the one room for a reason. Ribbon or be annoyed. Seems more fair than a single room enemy that slaughters you, though. Generally speaking I tried to make less common enemies stand out, and sometimes that's by them being jerks.

More seriously, Eviltype really, really tries to encourage status blockers to some level. This was so that I could later on have status using bosses that would actually use MT status and not kill your entire team instantly some of the time. If you train people to expect unfair status that annoys them, they'll hopefully learn to deal with it before it slaughters their team.

(Ultros 2 also falls under this. That, and making Ultros 2 have damage backing up his status would be a total dick move. Look at how far he is from a save!)

Some team setups can get potentially annoyed badly by WallChange, so 6000(about half life) should be about right. Celes very often stops being able to deal notable damage then, and Gau can lose a lot varying on the Rage he's using. Sabin is forced to physical, which...many setups aren't going to tweak his physicals at that point. Etc. Sure, he's not that impressive on damage until he WallChanges, but the point is to put out a lot of damage(like you did) before he gets serious and starts walling all you can do.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #34 on:** May 11, 2011, 07:22:31 AM »

Quote

Heal Rod: +10 Battle Power, +10% MBlock, Safe at low HP, Shell at low HP(Czarina Ring
effect), Ignore target MBlock, randomly cast Cure on attack, use as an item for Cure(Doesn't
break Rod.).
Mithril Rod: +1 Magic Power, randomly cast Scan on attack, use as an item for Scan(Doesn't
break Rod.), +10% Evade.

Have you tested to make sure the rods don't break when Item-cast? I'm pretty sure that to get that effect, you have to do some hex-editing?

SageAcrin · « **Reply #35 on:** May 11, 2011, 05:09:43 PM »

No, but I just simply made them common enough so that that effect would be harmless.

Mithril Rods are cheap as dirt, and Heal Rods have multiple drop/steal places. Though...I probably ought to make them storebought somewhere in the WoR. *Tosses them into Jidoor WoR shop for 10k.*

As of 1.07 I used to have them everywhere(and never had them break-the break is very specific, and applies mostly to dying or a few obscure actions after setting them for use in a menu, but before the effect goes off), but upon learning that bug I decided leaving the effect on anything very rare was irresponsible and nuked most of them.

Incidentally IIRC you could even get the item removal glitches in the vanilla game due to...I think it was equipment changing at the wrong time? It's not that the items randomly break, it's that the order of operations is screwed up and the game's way of handling certain things is to remove the item from existance for a moment, then place it somewhere else a bit later. Or something. It just manifests most strongly in those multiuse items.

I do need to remember to put that in the errata though.

Nephrite · « **Reply #36 on:** May 11, 2011, 10:53:19 PM »

**ESCAPE ON THE MINE CART**

Uneventful, as you might imagine.

**THE ELEVENTH DEMON, PROGRAM 128**

Pretty standard fair. The fact that these are buffed bosses from the original really says something.

I stole a Debilitator from a Chaser, but since you apparently get one from the Cranes now anyway it's moot.

**THE ELEVENTH DEMON, CRANES**

I had one wipe where I accidentally had Gau go into Hazer, that was my own fault. The second attempt went much more smoothly. The Bolt 3 single target version kills anyone but I thiiiiink that was the same as the original?

**THE ESPER WORLD**

Woah, woah woah. This is way too hard. What the hell were you thinking?? God, I died here more times than I want to remember. It practically killed my interest in the mod. Fuck you.

**SEALED CAVE**

I did some preparation and got all of Mog's dances and some more Rages. Using Terra/Mog/Gau/Locke, though now that I think about it Locke is probably an awful choice because his strongest weapons heal all the enemies in there...

The Absolute Zero on the Zombones was a bit scary until it only did like 200 damage. Not too much to report here, was never in any real struggle for my life or anything -- Baskervoir's Rage pretty much owns this entire place.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #37 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:14:13 AM »

It's not my fault you can't handle the SHEER RAW POWER of Maduin's built in Sprint Shoes and keep dying because of them.

Baskervor...huh, Ice 2/Cyclonic. Yeah, that really would. Good find, there.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #38 on:** May 16, 2011, 03:55:27 AM »

And thanks to super's work, there's now a Sketch/Rage documentation spreadsheet attached to the main page! Thanks super!

superaielman · « **Reply #39 on:** May 17, 2011, 05:05:55 PM »

Done with everything. Czar dragon is my bitch, etc. Sage do more optional fights, I want something to do with the superteam of death I built.

Beat Kefka/Czar at L40ish. Czar wasn't even that difficult (Brachosaur had a much better chance of offing me), he just is a straight test of your offense. Which worked for me, as the tiers/Kefka were about defense.

Anyway: Patch is a blast. The very earlygame and the early WoR can *suck* but other than that.. mmm.

Endgame team was Terra/Edgar/Gau/Setzer. Setzer is broken beyond all belief and reason with two sets of fixed dice- which of course you can't really use on the tiers, as all the status flying around means you need to twink for Mblock.

Best WoB PC was Edgar (Though it would have been up for debate if I hadn't stolen the air anchor from the airship) best PC in the WoR was Setzer. LVP was probably Relm- She had twink potential, but late joining in both halves of the game is a huge strike against her. She also competes with Mog/Gau for that behemoth suit, which sucks. Sage did make efforts to rebalance the cast, so there are no stinkers like say vanilla Cyan or Umaro floating around. He's done a ton of work since the earlier betas, so if you haven't played it since then I highly recommend trying it again.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #40 on:** May 18, 2011, 02:01:42 AM »

Sage is a making a Waddle-Tek of DOOM Monster-in-aBox for his next update~

Nephrite · « **Reply #41 on:** May 26, 2011, 10:54:01 PM »

**TALKING TO DUDES TO MAKE ME GET FREE STUFF**

Almost ran out of time, but I could have had a better party for this anyway.

**THAMASA**

Pretty uneventful. Not like there's much to really make any harder here.

**THE TWELTH DEMON, FLAME EATER**

Had a reset here due to some high variance on Meteo and me being a little hurt. Sage is fixing this fight so it's not an issue at all.

**ESPER MOUNTAINS**

Boring, not much anyone can do about this.

**THE THIRTEENTH DEMON, ULTROS AGAIN**

He stings! But not much else. Reflect + White Wind makes him funny.

**KEFKA VS. LEO**

I actually did die here once, but I think that was largely my own fault and I also used the Evasion patch so no real worries.

During my preparation for the Floating Continent, I found out that L. 5 Doom works on Intangirs. Sage thinks it's funny.

**THE FOURTEENTH AND FIFTEENTH DEMONS, ULTROS AND CHUPON**

I actually had a reset here due to an unlucky Imp Song followed by some other Octopus Ink nonsense before I could recover. Alas.

I'm sad I can't learn Imp Song or Clean Sweep here.

**THE SIXTEENTH DEMON, AIR FORCE**

Had a reset here due to some unlucky turns with Diffuser and other things. My own fault, really.

...Hm, two resets now. I feel like there's not much else I can be doing because they're just constantly shitting out Seizure all over the place.

Okay, much easier the third time now that I put up Shell and just focused on killing the Missile Launcher and other thing. I couldn't manage to steal all the items but I got another Swordbreaker so that's good enough.

**FLOATING CONTINENT**

Got wiped out by a group of Three Wirey Dragons. This is going to be a blast, I can tell.

Well, Behemoths can kill anyone in my party with Flare, Lifeshaver is annoying but can be dealt with via Gaia Gear I suppose...

...Ah, Behemoths have shit for MP. Got it.

Random question since I've been thinking about it: Can you make Sun Bath remove Freeze? It'd make sense from a thematic point of view.

**THE SEVENTEENTH DEMON, ATMA WEAPON**

Pretty big step up from the original, though him not having Flare Star made me sad since I brought Strago. :\ Oh well, at least I got Clean Sweep, I suppose, as well as a Ribbon.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #42 on:** May 27, 2011, 12:55:25 AM »

I don't think you can remove Freeze easily cause FF6 doesn't treat it like a conventional status, so no conventional means remove it (Rippler...is screwed up; lets not talk about that exception.)

He could do it by making Sun Bath a Fire Elemental Healing Spell, except that this would make Sun Bath haev Reverse Properties for Fire Elemental resistances. It'd still get nulled by stuff like Red Jacket, and the Flame Shield would actually make it do damage. You could argue that its not really a big deal, but nonetheless, that's really the only solution I can think of.

Nephrite · « **Reply #43 on:** May 27, 2011, 01:25:54 AM »

Ohhh, that... is oddly not surprising, considering the other weird things that happen in FF6. >_>

SageAcrin · « **Reply #44 on:** May 28, 2011, 08:03:10 AM »

You can't learn Imp Song in general. It's a Dance, not a Lore~

It's possible to avoid the final attack sneeze and learn Clean Sweep with Jump, I think, though. Just have Strago jump before the fight ends. Yes, that is silly, but hey.

AtmaWeapon *does* have Flare Star, it's a low HP trigger with a decent sized amount of time to wind up, though. Presumably you just found a way to deal enough damage to skip it.

Nephrite · « **Reply #45 on:** May 28, 2011, 04:05:07 PM »

Quote from: SageAcrin on May 28, 2011, 08:03:10 AM

You can't learn Imp Song in general. It's a Dance, not a Lore~

It's possible to avoid the final attack sneeze and learn Clean Sweep with Jump, I think, though. Just have Strago jump before the fight ends. Yes, that is silly, but hey.

AtmaWeapon *does* have Flare Star, it's a low HP trigger with a decent sized amount of time to wind up, though. Presumably you just found a way to deal enough damage to skip it.

Ah, I might go back to learn that then. Do you know if I can re-trigger it if I heal him?

SageAcrin · « **Reply #46 on:** May 31, 2011, 10:13:13 PM »

I think it's an unavoidable trigger, actually-he'll start the chargeup for it no matter what, and I don't think it shuts off, if I'm recalling the script right.

It does, however, take him three turns to get done with it. Just watch for the glowing, that's a sign that he's trying to do the chargeup. (He used to just sit there and charge it, at least he attacks still now...)

Nephrite · « **Reply #47 on:** May 31, 2011, 10:52:47 PM »

I just redid the fight, I got to see Mind Blast and Flare Star that time! (Flare Star did 400 damage! Go Atma Weapon!)

**WORLD OF RUIN***

Pretty standard. I didn't really use Celes or Sabin so I'm having a bit of a hard time with the randoms but so it goes. Phunbaba wasn't really much of a concern, despite Blow Fish killing people.

The cave to Figaro is pretty hard for someone like me who didn't use the two of them. Could you maybe lower the battle power of the monsters there just a bit? They can 2-4 shot anyone in the back row and there's not much you can do about it. I'd say use Vanish but the Neck Hunters cast Bio which throws a big wrench into that. Humpty's are really the worst offenders, at least in my opinion. I guess the fact that they only have physicals is fine but this section is pretty tough, maybe I should have used one of them more.

**THE EIGHTEENTH DEMON: TENTACLES**

I'm not sure if it was Bio Blaster but for some reason all the tentacles kept taking 1,000 damage randomly, along with the 280~ or so that the poison inflicts. Also they got completely owned by GOLEM, but I'm sure you know that's possible.

EDIT: Okay, not all the tentacles, just... the bottom right and top right ones, I think? Either way they more or less got bowled over. Oddly I'd say this fight was way easier than the randoms.

EDIT: Nope, all of them. They'd take 260 damage from Bio Blaster every so often and then anywhere from 800-1900 damage every 10-20 seconds.

TigerKnee · « **Reply #48 on:** June 01, 2011, 01:48:16 PM »

Is there really a new version coming soon or was that just a joke comment a while earlier?

Nephrite · « **Reply #49 on:** June 01, 2011, 09:58:04 PM »

**DARRYL'S TOMB**

Mostly uneventful, not really much to report on the enemies since I had appropriate defenses.

Managed to finagle 2 Dragon Claws from Presenter, though Sage said it wasn't really necessary.

**THE NINTEENTH DEMON: DULLAHAN**

I Rasped him to death but his AI seemed mostly unchanged from the original? The Life 3 was a cute touch. If you'd rather have him be Rasped I'd just raise his MP a bit, since with the new Rasp it took me about 4 turns.

Doing some Colosseum stuff apparently you can't get an Aura from betting Murasame anymore.

I'd imagine I just have to find the item that can become an Aura, though, since it was buffed so much I can't blame you. I'm just trying to get a Pearl Lance.

Some of these fights seem a little one-sided since the original strategies won't work anymore. I guess it's not so bad, though, since the stuff is pretty good.

EDIT: Oh, also, Edgar refused to Jump for me in the Colosseum... I'm not really sure why. Even though I had Dragoon Boots equipped on him, it works fine outside and in normal battles.

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Author Topic: The Final Fantasy 3/6 Eviltype 1.1 and Variations topic (Read 27372 times)