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Author Topic: Shift Tourney 2: Finals  (Read 816 times)

SnowFire

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Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« on: September 24, 2014, 04:13:13 AM »
Wakka looked on in horror at the vast abomination before him.  How was it possible to beat that...  blasphemous... thing...?  It was impossible.  All hope was lost.

Rikku only laughed.  "With our new player, the Al Bhed Psyches will be unstoppable!  We'll finally win the championships for once!  How does it feel to know that Besaid will be settling for 2nd place this year?"

"Yunie" forced a smile.  Still, the match was tomorrow; a lot could change in 24 hours.  Perhaps this bizarre blitzball-playing speedy flying robot fish might suffer a little "accident" tonight.  She wasn't much for sabotage usually, but helping the Aurochs win the tournament might be something Tidus would have approved of...

--

Results from Week 2: Odie > Lawfer, 4-3.  Not gonna bother with the rest, there was basically 0 dissenting votes last week for other matches.  Check any random voter's list!

Because I'm weird and don't like short 3-match weeks, we're finishing 'em all up this week.  Per last time, please vote on all the matches in the mini-pods for Demigods & Heroes, even the matches that you suspect won't be the final.  It's fun to see the pod standings and people still around here apparently like voting a lot anyway. 

--

Divinities

Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)

Demigods

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Odie (Soul Nomad) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2014, 04:45:25 AM »
Divinities

Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X): Gut vote of both Yuna and some of her aeons having too much lightning defence + evade.

Demigods

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana): Outstalls.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3): Faster, one-rounds.

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series): Mm, this is close. It's quite possible Tibarn activates Tear before he dies, but I'd rather not make that kneejerk... Magus being all MT to get around Pavise helps a lot.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3): Outstalls.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series): uhhh whoever goes first wins? Pass, I don't have a good tiebreak for that.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3): Shania curses being marginally below average speed in this pool.

Purim 2-0
Tibarn 1-1
Magus 1-2
Shania 1-2

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem): Faster, should certainly two-round, and has enough evade for paralysis nonsense to not be turn 1. EDIT: Or not, that status weapon is nutty.
Odie (Soul Nomad) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII): Odie's not a huge fan of status. To make matters worse the only consistent thing about Angelo's build is that he's a healer, so he's probably one of the few Heavies I'd class as one which kinda destroys Odie further.

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad): Elemental Leather and paralysis.
Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII): I think? He's faster, can resist paralysis, and harry her with blind/confuse. I'm not 100% sure how good those statuses are, but kneejerk that it'll be enough.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad): After type advantage, Odie OHKOs, so it doesn't even matter if Guy evades turn 1 or not.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII): Faster, Kathwack claims a victim.

Angelo 3-0
Maria 2-1
Odie 1-2
Guy 0-3
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 07:35:32 PM by Dark Holy Elf »
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Random Consonant

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2014, 05:12:37 AM »

Demigods

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - ow.

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)  - I'll bite.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - Stripmonixer nonsense handles this.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Tibarn has 11 threat range which I will kneejerk as respecting more here.  Your milage may vary, obviously.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - Sure.

Heroes

Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad) - He just gets so many shots at this.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2014, 02:04:52 PM »
Divinities

Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - Surely.

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana) - Can pretty much outstall him to kingdom come, and Wall trolls the hell out of his counters. Moon Saber => Lunar Energy => Wall => hello, darkness, my old friend.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - FE9 - though even FE9 Tibarn makes this close as hell. If my kneejerk of Sanlittobel Cure Plus being actually full healing is wrong, this just flips.

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Walls.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - Stalls.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Abstain. No real good tiebreak for this.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - Goes le first.

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Evade.
Odie (Soul Nomad) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII) - To make things even worse, I think the only attack of Odie's I'd see going through bounce is his limit, which probably doesn't even OHKO Angelo due to match disadvantage.

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad) - The Wayward Bus. To make things uglier, she's a gunner type and likely overkills him pretty badly.
Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII) - DQ8 resistance is subtractive, right? That likely makes Maria paralysis turn never, and Blind effectively should stave away any hope of a reliable heal-lock even through Power Up.

Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad) - Roasted swordsmen: it's what's for dinner.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII) - More ID. Angelo kinda isn't a low Heavy.
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SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 05:03:41 PM »
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana) - Making Magus break his own shields is pretty funny, yes.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - FE9 loses, but FE10 seems like he should get at least 3 turns -> 6 attacks against the countery form for a pretty likely Tear (~75% chance?), and the second form won't live long enough to resolve Dark Matter...
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Movement range works for me.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) - I don't think Shania OHKOs even if she's seen as blocking Engulf?

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Going against the grain on this one.  Maria's shots are ranged, Guy loses the movement range tiebreak, and Maria will get at least 2 turns to land some nasty paralysis.  Fine, 1 misses, but the 1 that hits should still be T1 paralysis vs. Guy Res.  (Close match though, just being a bit contrarian.)

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII) - Yeah, Angelo isn't really set for Heroes.  In my defense (I nom'd him) he had a losing record in the old DL Heavy and was below the median in scores, but I think that might have been just bad luck - above average speed, full-healing, and 3 different spoiling games (instant death, blind, & bounce) makes for a pretty terrifying package in High Middle / Low Heavy.  I guess Lawfer might have won given sufficient VP status defense hype?  That's about it, though.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2014, 05:29:16 PM »
Angelo, in theory, has a High Heavy package, but he lacks turn one decisive options and he had -really- bad draws (Antenora perfectly spoils him, for instance, since Bounce fails against non-PC magic and being heal-locked with a move that eventually lands a match-ending status is really bad). He probably looks somewhat better these days too, since a lot of us no longer allow aftergame skills (myself included), which reflects favorably on the averages for him.
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2014, 05:31:24 PM »
Lawfer/Lucian have no protection from instant death under any interpretation (unless you give them Guts/Angel Curios) so yeah Angelo cruises. Actually the only person in the field I can think of who would beat Angelo is Rune (who has unsilenceable unreflectable tricks and is highly resistant to magical status), and even then instant death resistance and going first means there's at least an argument. Not that I think he was wrong to nom for Heroes, he feels borderline, and then got a good field as well.

Re Magus vs. Tibarn, yeah the thing I kept coming back to is that Tibarn absolutely needs that Tear activation to win, and even then it will depend on exactly how you see Tear's strength bonus interacting with Magus' defence... if it overcomes it subtractively as in FE Tibarn should be fine, but if it overcomes it defensively as it would in CT it won't be enough. I tend to kneejerk the former but not enough to go with shaky FE skill activations. Obviously a good fight though.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 06:34:24 PM »
Divinities

Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)

Demigods

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)

Purim 3-0
Shania 2-1
Magus 1-2
Tibarn 0-3

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)- If Maria's Paralysis gets in 3 hits, it's turn 1. Her combo is about 30 hits, so you need above 90% evade to make this happen. This is a pretty clean turn 1.
Odie (Soul Nomad) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)- Yeah, I let Odie block 1 status, but it's completely irrelevant.
Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- DQ 8 topic needs a bit of a refresh, but he should have something to make this work.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)- Yep
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)

Angelo 3-0
Maria 2-1
Odie 1-2
Guy 0-3

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2014, 07:34:14 PM »
What how on earth is her paralysis that good the stat topic figures are far lower- *sees the Paralyser* Oh. Guess that changes my vote, then. (You may want to edit in the number of hits her various moves get then, since it's relevant for some matches.)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2014, 08:26:22 PM »
Wouldn't that fall into your SH2 physical chain clause (one evade check against the full chain), though? I assumed so in Guy's case, though, considering how SO3's effective evade measure allows for dodging separate hits even after one connects...
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2014, 08:35:10 PM »
I was kinda kneejerking that each part of the combo would have a separate evade check, rather than the extreme of it being made per hit or per entire combo. But I can see a case otherwise, and yeah Guy would win if you did just the one check, at least to me. Hmm.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2014, 09:09:02 PM »
I think there's a pretty reasonable case to make at least each separate attack to make an evade check in SO3's case (and games like Tales, where you chain different attacks). Given how in-game you can at least block attacks mid-string even if previous hits connected, I believe the reasoning is kosher enough even assuming differently for the likes of SH2. I tend to assume a single evade check mostly for simplicity, though (not having to ponder how much damage someone takes on a given multihit attack that gets partly dodged, that jazz).
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2014, 05:56:27 AM »
Also, re:Shadow Hearts stuff, isn't that also because the status attached to Shadow Hearts physicals in-game is reliant on the last hit?  I know there was a time in SH3 that Mao was getting attacked for a Hard Hit chain, and then evaded the last hit and the Stock loss.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2014, 07:58:49 PM »
Yes, only the last hit matters for SH physical attached status.
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SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney 2: Finals
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 04:40:38 AM »
Results, hooray.

Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)


Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Purim (Secret of Mana)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) (3-2)

Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) (4-1)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)
** Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) (2-1)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Shania (Shadow Hearts 3)


Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) (3-1)
Odie (Soul Nomad) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
** Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)

Yuna, Tibarn, & Angelo win.  (Both Tibarn's victories were by a margin of 1 vote, so an exciting ride for Mr. Hawk King, though.)  For the pools:
Tibarn = Purim (2-1), Magus (1-2), Shania (0-3);
Angelo > Maria > Odie > Guy.
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