The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: superaielman on April 06, 2015, 07:31:04 PM
-
CKDL's about done and Cmdr isn't going to be running it again, so I want do a DL style tourney. I'm mixing up the format by changing the division lines. Submit 4-6 noms in each division and I'll hash out a season at some point. I'm sticking to CKDL ranked games for this.
Divisions: Godlike: 4.7+
High Heavy: 4.2-4.7
Low Heavy: 3.6-4.2
Middle: 3.0-3.6
The Division of Shame: 1.00-2.00
-
Godlike: Reicher (MK2), Jezuit (BoF5), Yuna (FFX), Zophar (Lunar:EBC), Jenna Angel (DDS), Lady (SH3)
High Heavy: Claude Kenni (SO2), Citan Uzuki (XG), Rameriz (SoA), Odd Eye (SF2), Layna (SN), Jowy Atreides (S2)
Low Heavy: Aldelbert Steiner (FF9), Rei (BoF3), Lich (FF1), Fujin (FF8), Rune Walsh (PS4), Yuffie Kisaragi (FF7)
Middle: Nergal (FE7), Gaff Gafgarion (FFT), Lexis Shaia (Lufia 2), Jessica de Al'kirk (Lunar:SSSC), Argilla (DDS), Brad Evans (WA2)
Shame: Kain Highwind (FF4) , Raja (PS4), Noel Chandler (SO2), Doll (SaGa), Aeris Gainsbourgh (FF7), Onix (PKMN)
-
CKDL's about done and Cmdr isn't going to be running it again
Hopefully that again is again for a while and not again ever.
Anyways, a few of your Failures are probably over the 2.00 mark (Aeris for sure). Lissa is also now watching intently as her regen may not be overcome by anyone here.
Maybe make Low Heavy 3.6 to 4.2 that way Middle isn't competely identical to what we would otherwise have?
-
Lissa's a borderline puny, she is so freaking bad. Aeris feels sub 2.00 to me. No offense to speak of and limit healing does not win often, even in lower light. And re middle: sure.
-
Aeris is a temp so there are probably some scaling issues there? But offhand, I agree with Super. When in doubt, I'd just use their DL record. I'd expect anyone sub-2 to have a clearly losing record, and the 2-6 Aeris (with her only victories coming over very bad opponents) seems to qualify.
-
While there aren't notes in the topic and Aeris' damage is not especially good, it shouldn't be truly non-existant. She's leaving before that endgame weapon spike and while I'm sure her natural STR is bottom of the barrel, FF 7 wasn't that big on wide curves. Her durability shouldn't be too bad, and good luck to Punies because they'll never avoid her L3 basically if you give any notable limit scaling at all.
I agree Lissa is borderline Puny, but still at least a 2.25 to me. Granted, I see that under other scalings she is right below- 4 AS (granted, I think Awakening was -5 AS for doubling). I also guess that those who don't allow class switching, Sage is the better class. Just happens that War Cleric beats Punies for free, but generally fails worse against those above Puny. Granted, looking at your list, none of those are bottom barrel Punies anyways, so might just be a difference is where we put the Puny line numerically. Everyone there at least has some quirk to try and use for wins.
-
There are Aeris damage figures here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,188.msg30024.html#msg30024). As you projected, she's not great, though not completely wretched either.
Personally I don't allow Pulse of Life (I have never come close to getting that without grinding, even when I used Aeris at every opportunity. I'd have to be think about Planet Protector), but if you do, yes, some limit scalings could make it a bit hard to avoid. However, I believe the most common current limit scaling is to let PCs start with a half-filled bar which makes it impossible to repeatedly get Pulse of Life anyway. So it really does take a fairly specific set of views to let Aeris spam Pulse of Life infinitely effectively even against poor Lights, and even then some will come up with ways to avoid it (status, back-ending damage somehow, etc.)
And if I'm wrong and she's notably better than I expect then we get a good vote draw champing the division and us all learning a bit more about where her duelling ability is, which is fine by me.
-
Yeah, not really even looking at Pulse of Life; L3's alone at pretty embarrassing. Yeah, half limits definitely make Aeris worse (was my first reaction. On second thought, it might make her worse in this tournament, but better overall). I still stick with the old method because it makes the FF 7 duelers far more interesting to me. Objectively thinking on it I probably shouldn't though, but I would need to roll that over in my head a little. I really should post something in DL discussion about limit scaling.
-
Re Lissa: I definitely don't let her switch classes, yeah,. Every time one of the FE war clerics got into PG, they stunk it up hardcore ala a puny. The only person who really is making me question my placement is Citan, and his status holes are enough to kneejerk him into that high heavy bracket instead of full godlike.
-
Just for my own purposes since I never liked nor kept track of the numbers - that's a halfway split for Godlike & Heavy, right? (Seems to match up to the medians Elf dug up before.) And I assume we're talking Low Lights for Shame, so bottom half. Is Middle different than normal middle? How so if so?
If you don't let Lissa switch classes, she definitely wants Sage, so no point in referring to her as a War Cleric! WC Lissa is ~6 points below average speed, and regens .21 physical durability per round. This means the likes of FF4o Edward overwhelm her infinite healing game, and she gives up range 1-2 counters, better magic spoiling, AND damage that begins to register for it. Yeah no. Sage at least has counterattacks, which have always proven rather potent at winning Light slugfests.
-
The standard splits before were
4.5 and over- Godlike
3.75 to 4.5- Heavy
3 to 3.75- Middle
3 and below- Light
This actually ending up causing some slight ranking issues since it was an RPGP carryover (we should have switch to 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 and 5 and over or something).
So Heavy is somewhat split in half, but gets a slight extra bit of Middle. Middle's change is slight (3.75 top to 3.6). 2 to 3 vanished.
-
Yeah, I wanted to cut out the competent but boring part of light, since people seem to prefer the comedy side of the division.
-
Godlike: Lady (SH3), Nobutsuna Kamiizumi (BD), Ghaleon (L:SSS), Incentas (MMX:CM), Orgulla (XS2), Lavos (CT)
High Heavy: Oerba Yun Fang (FF13), Killer (SH3), Lucina (FE13), Black Mage (BD), Dehuai (SH1), Taro Namatame/Kunino-Sagiri (P4)
Low Heavy: Maria Traydor (SO3), Tengaar (Suikos), Sonya Shulen (S1), Sceptile (PKMN), Renee Kearse (MK), Croco (SMRPG)
Middle: Lilina (FE6), Marco (RH), Ruffles Virion (FE13), Shante (AtL2), Jumpluff (PKMN), Lita (BoD7)
Onix: Paula (EB), Whelk (FF6), Millie (S2), Castform (PKMN), Tony (WAXF), Igglanova (PS4)
I no longer have a division to slap Labyrinthia into. =(
-
Godlike
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default)
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)
Belial (Wild ARMs 4)
Arceus (Pokémon)
High Heavy
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III)
Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Low Heavy
Sofia (Dragon Quest IV)
Elena (Grandia II)
Sharon (Legaia 2: Duel Saga)
Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Middle
Jeff (Earthbound)
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4)
Raynie (Radiant Historia)
Unlimited Uguu Works
Garland (Final Fantasy)
Mist Dragon (Final Fantasy IV)
Whelk (Final Fantasy VI)
Guard Scorpion (Final Fantasy VII)
-
Divisions: Godlike: 4.7+
Ryu 3, Yuna, False Althena, Ghaleon, Orgulla, Zophar
1. Motivate me to finish the stat topic
2. Still mightier than Ryu 3
3. Definitely has the HP, speed and damage
4. Definitely has the HP and damage
5. Definitely has the HP and damage
6. Well, I guess that damage everyone else had wasn't that impressive.
High Heavy: 4.2-4.7
Tana, Shania, Ryu 2, Millenia, Layna, Arc
1. Can she run the game now which her crazy evade and double rate?
2. Sure, I did rank her 4.75, but I'm call it close enough given her DL mixed track record.
3. That overkill. Wants the argument to have some of that speed back more.
4. Misses that speed respect even more.
5. Slugfests amazingly, but doesn't deal well with status.
6. Normally Elc is the one running around with wins. Maybe this division will be more Arc's speed?
Low Heavy: 3.6-4.2
Alfina, Fayt, Maria, Grunzford, Tosh, Rei
1. I love to put her through the ringer because she rides so borderline to me.
2. Yeah, I did rank him 4.25, but I figure my respect is high, so this is a fair enough test of how he would play
3. The DL's premier PC paralyzer?!
4. Bringing that off balanced fun SN smash
5. Bringing the skillset but not the speed. Maybe like Arc, he'll have a little more lucky here?
6. Let's see how he does
Middle: 3.0-3.6
Ulrika, Tio, Roger, Sophia, Shante, Bart
1. Quirky mixed bag of tricks might go a little better with a few of the better fighters out of her way.
2. Just has a simple mix of skills I find interesting with a nice defensive quirk.
3. To prove that he definitely shouldn't be in Light
4. The power of SO 3 Freeze
5. Just has felt like forever since I nommed her for something
6. Can he make his defensive tricks work for him here?
The Division of Shame: 1.00-2.00 (Man, I wish RS was ranked for something like this)
Chu Chu, Yumei, Celine, Alenia, Nina 3, Aeris
1. Unleash your fail of combo synergy.
2. Finally a VP game can look impressive
3. The might of Angel Feather. Hey that 3% Regen is looking pretty good right now?
4. Hey, Celine is quaking at her MDef
5. If she's fair game
6. Sure, if she's fair game
-
Edited out the flexicharacters per super's request.
Godlike:
Red Fiend (Lunar 2)
Kraken (FF3)
Orphan (FF13)
Melc Crystals (G3)
Emelious (G3)
Orlandu (FFT)
High Heavy:
Ephraim (FE8)
Dehaui (SH1)
Kuja (FF9)
White Fiend (Lunar2)
Lyon (S5)
Fang (FF13)
Low Heavy:
Mia (FEs)
Elena (G2)
Nash (S3)
MOMO (XSes)
Heinkel (BD)
Steiner (FF9)
Middle:
Rena (SO2)
Luna (Lunar)
Henry (FEA)
Raynie (RH)
Spherimorph (FFX)
Tifa (FF7)
The Aiel Wastes:
Rahal (S5)
Juno (FE6)
Guido (G1)
Palmer (FF7)
Bard (FFT)
Gato (CT)
Tempted to nom Opiomorph in the wastes for the sheer wrongness of that boss sucking so badly in the DL, but alas Elf mentioned the possibility of an interp split, so best avoided, I suppose. (We don't let Fire Emblem bosses counterattack # of PC's scaled against times, so don't see why she'd get 3 procs of the power-up, but hey, who knows.)
-
I'm assuming that at least for now, Nina 3 qualifies for Puny?
-
I'm pretty sure she almost always did. Paula-level slugfesting and survivability and all she has to claim for herself is status spoiling. She fairly loses to SUIKOBOLDS.
-
Godlike: Yuna (FFX), Red Fiend (Lunar EBC), Orlouge (Saga), Wraith (VP1)
High Heavy: Celes Chere (FF6), Wakka (FFX), Raquel Applegate (WA4), Charlton (WAXF)
Low Heavy: Gau (FF6), Delita Hyral (FFT), Rose (LoD), Nelis (S5)
Middle: Tifa Lockheart (FF7), Pent (FE7), Micaiah (FE10), Hippopressor (MMXCM)
Aiel Wastes: Ronfar (Lunar EBC), Kosanji (S3), Jelanda Artolia (VP1), Shady Thousand (WA3)
Shady might be too good, I dunno. But I know some people have lower WA3 boss respect than me, so he may well average here. Also how could I miss a chance to nom Shady in a division where he has a chance to champ.
Seriously, if anyone has an issue with any of the rankings, let me know.
-
engage nom plundering
Godlike: Red Fiend (Lunar:EBC), Lady (SH3), Reicher (MK2), Nobutsuna Kamiizumi (BD), Yuna (FFX)
High Heavy: Raquel (WA4), Black Mage (BD), Jowy (S2), Chris (S3), Lyon (S5)
Low Heavy: Rune (PS4), Rose (LoD), Tosh (AtL2), Sceptile (PKMN), Et (MK2)
Middle: Micaiah (FE10), Henry (FE13), Ulrika (MK2), Jumpluff (PKMN), Raynie (RH)
Eternal Kissyface: Igglanova (PS4), Rahal (S5), Doll (SaGa), Aeris (FF7), Garland (FF1)
-
Elf: Hope's champed CKDL-Middle IIRC, and made it to the finals in a Futurama? super chopped off the very top end of Middle, so he might be a little good for almost-Middle.
-
Gau/Shady strike mas too strong relative to their division. Gau in particular is just hard to beat due to all the walling. You need to have faster turn one status he can't wall or enough of the right type of magic damage to beat him. Shady's probably too good but eh, he's not obnoxious and he does have problems with the not completely pathetic healers. So yeah mostly Gau strikes me as too good.
-
Gau went 4-4 in Heavy and has never made it to the Heavy finals in any tournament that I can recall (if I'm wrong, do correct me!) so I feel he should fall under 4.2? The fact that he absolutely never wins in less than 2 turns (and only rarely less than 3 against the ID-immune) is a huge problem for him, as is his lack of protection against non-elemental magic or ITD damage, and of course quickdraw status he doesn't block (death, sleep, etc.). It adds up.
Shady I agree is borderline... but he had a bad DL record (2-5) and has never done serious damage in a side tournament that I can recall. Wallable low 4HKO is pretty problematic, and as noted I think I'm at the higher end of WA3 boss respect. But even for me he struggles against the likes of Aeris and outright loses to most VP mages and other elemental spoilers (and he can't spoil Jelanda back because of the BIRD, though does spoil most of Yumei's set).
Hope... yes, on reflection is definitely too strong, my bad.
-
Godlike: Reicher (MK2), Orgulla (XS2), Vritra (DDS2), Weisheit (WA:XF), Hugo (WA4), Violetta (G3)
High Heavy: Odd Eye (SF2), Lucia (Suikos), Chris Lightfellow (S3), Lulu (FFX), Nel Zelpher (SO3), Wren (PS4)
Low Heavy: Tiki (FE13), Umi (CstW), Axl (MMXCM), Tana (FE8), Nina (BoF4), Elhaym van Houten (XG)
Middle: Meganium (HGSS), Ramza Beoulve (FFT), Lucca Ashtear (CT), Flay Gunnar (MK1), Tear Grants (TotA), Micaiah (FE10)
Division of Shame: Chu-Chu (XG), Nina (BoF3), Alfred Schrodinger (WA3), Mist Dragon (FF4), Igglanova (PS4), Spirit Master (BD)
-
Godlike: Belial(WA4), Rika(PS4), Timelord(SaGa), Velius(FFT)
High Heavy: Malik Benedict(WA3), Ramsus[In Haishao](XG), Lede(FFT), Layna(SN)
Low Heavy: Tiki(FE13), Demi(PS4), Maria (SO3), Kresnik(WA4)
Middle: Nowi(FE13), Hahn(PS4), Gafgarion(FFT), Tony(WA4),
BEST DIVISION EVER: Jogurt(ShF), Big Joe(XG), Paula(EB), Ramus(L:SSSC)
[EDIT]: Okay, attempted this again, hopefully it fits better.
-
Nama: One of Celia/Lede champed Heavy back in the day and was in Godlike, not sure Lede is safe for Low Heavy (for all that she does eat losses there, as they're both pretty one-dimensional duelers: super-fast 100% status, lose if it's all immuned.)
Rika is probably not safe for High Heavy / Low Godlike, the old DL has her at a 4.8 and she had a winning record in Godlike (9-7), making it to the finals before.
I don't know Soul Nomad but others nom'd Layna in High Heavy and think she was considered a Low Godlike during the DL ranking process.
-
The flip is that Nel's claim to High Heavy isn't exactly very strong now. You could swap her and Layna...
-
Just seconding that there is no way in hell that Lede is Low Heavy. Celia you could maaaybe make that argument for because she pretty much loses to the status-immune, but Lede doesn't even have that problem with her high 2HKO damage. (Although I wouldn't call them "super fast", they're the same speed as Gafgarion/Izlude/Wiegraf but fought later... still cleanly above average though.)
And yeah Rika/Layna are too good for their divisions as well.
-
Edited my picks, thanks for the heads-up. For some reason I had a hard time picking out nominations for LH/HH
-
I will roll this out starting at 7pm est tonight.
-
Godlike: Tir McDohl (Suikos), Lady (SH3), Lavos (CT)
High Heavy: Riou (S2), Arnaud (WA4), Jessica (DQ8)
Low Heavy: Yosuke (P4), Fujin (FF8), Marle (CT)
Middle: Jeff (EB), Mario (SMRPG), Katt (BoF2)
The Division of Shame: Paula (EB), Liz (WA2), Mogu (BoF1)