The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: Cmdr_King on February 02, 2016, 06:16:23 AM
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire)
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII) - so it goes
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) - Faster, right damage type. Dragoon defenses buy Albert a turn but he has no way to use that to actually, y'know, win.
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI) - Probably right to me. Close though.
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Godlike
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire)- Need to figure out much I respect Jade's HP. Abstain
Heavy
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- Alena vs Geddoe remix. Geddoe is too physically durable and damaging to get blitzed down.
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)- Kahn gets owned so badly by healing
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)- Think so. Umaro's faster but Aguro's more damaging. They're pretty close in a physical slugfest otherwise, feel like tiebreaking against Umaro for randomness seems fair. Aguro is hard to slug down in Light unless you have status or are a mage.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X): Defender X may need one less hit to win, but speed becomes a thing. I'm even inclined to see Blast Punch's delay working (if not its damage) but that's nowhere near enough.
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire): Lady generally gets spoiled by really high durability because her damage turns into "normal Godlike levels" once her stock has been fired.
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis): Tony needs... 6 attacks to kill, maybe 7. Ominas kills in 4 hits at most, and with a finisher brave that means he only needs to get 3 turns. He's getting those.
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Hammer of Raijin is a OHKO, and I don't view Say'ri as dodging turn 1.
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII): If Barret comes in with a L!, he gets 2HKOed so yeah no. (Unless you want to hype Mindblow forcing Typhlosion to use STRUGGLE... yeah, don't do this. Even Quick Attack lets him win.) So he comes in with a L2, which he gets at 57% damage taken to me. Typhlosion does... 56.4% to Barret. But surely Barret can drop his MDef... nope, apparently not, not a single one of his weapons affects Spirit, and of course FF7 armour MDef is bugged. Starting limit gauge should give this to Barret, though.
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon): Faster, hits the right defence.
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy): Kahn's physical does 44% and Charm Arrow does just over 50%. (2 shots) WW is faster. Kahn doesn't want to start out with magic for a variety of reasons, so WW spends the first two turns buffing evade. If both physicals have hit, she then heals. She then buffs evade once more. At this point, surely one of two attacks have missed, at least, so twice more, then heals again. Kahn can force her to heal one more time with his first Charm Arrow, but that's it, and WW has four shots of Cure 4. He then has a bunch of shots of L1 but yeah lower-level healing does for those.
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI): I will note that if you allow Umaro to use both his accessories with no penalty, he beats Aguro fairly cleanly. He has a high 4HKO to average which becomes a lower 4HKO against Aguro's HP, and no way does Aguro 3HKO him back. However, if you make Umaro take a stat hit to use his unique accessories, he could be in some trouble. He needs at least one of the accessories to still 4HKO. So it really depends what sort of hit you apply and exactly where you see Aguro's speed (Lufia 1 stat topic doesn't list SDs, not calculating that myself).
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire)
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)
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Godlike
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)
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Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire)
Heavy
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Flip a coin, except it's a rigged one.
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy) - Evade buffing, sure.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire)
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)- Abstain. No Hammerblow respect (god, that moves needed to be MT for me to give it any worth), but MP killing credit is a go. But I'm open to it not killing Typh worst physical.
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)
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FF7 enemies do not use MP for their physical techs (nor for that matter, their non-typed buffs and status attacks which aren't already part of a magical skillset, for all that this isn't relevant here). Don't really see a good reason that it would hit Typhlosion's.
I'm not terribly inclined to see MP busting working on Pokemon in general, skill charges aren't MP. If I did... one possibility would be to treat it the way PP busts work in Pokemon, and only target the PP supply of the move the opponent used last. There is no attack or effect in Pokemon which can simultaneously attack the PP supply of multiple moves at once, which is what you tend to hype MP busting doing to them.
Most MP busts are pretty junky in their home games (Mindblow certainly included, though it's the boss versions I often find more egregious as MP restoration is laughably easy in Chrono Trigger, Shadow Hearts 2, etc.) and I see little reason to make them even better in the DL than they already are.
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Oh, if MP busting is shit in game, then I don't give it a lot of credit (SH 2/3 and FFX MP busting has no DL effect to me).
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I will note that when it comes to boss MP damage though, the problem with discrediting just that is that there are a lot of boss moves that suck in game but are better in the DL. Status and ST damage are both notable categories for that. If you tried to balance everything that would make sense, but I wouldn't just look at MP damage without weighing the other stuff.
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Well ST MP damage in those games is even more useless than the rest! Damage adds up and can kill you, same with ST status. They'd, more pertinently, also be good against a solo in-game, in many cases, which is how we tend to judge DL matches.
Regardless, my argument wasn't "stop Garan/Zeal from being able to bust MP because those moves are useless", it's "don't make shaky judgement calls for those moves". Letting them hit four separate pools at once (or even three) and forcing the target to use Tackle/Struggle certainly qualifies!
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As a point of order, FF7 PC MP busting actually is stupidly good to a degree that I think was a design balance mistake, since it entirely trivializes certain bosses that are quite dangerous without it (Schizo most famously?). So while I'd be fine with making a judgment call against a boss, Barret probably deserves a bit more respect on this point. (I'd certainly assume Mindblow 0'd out all the attacks based on PKMN Special & maybe buffs / healing / things that usually cost MP in FF7, for one. But per Elf's earlier comment, it probably wouldn't do anything to 'physical' based Pokemon moves.)
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Mindblow does not work on Schizo, as he immunes gravity!
Magic Hammer does, granted, and is effective against Schizo the pure mage, yes (although it does take four uses to drain each head).
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Rapps is the one boss I've usually seen mentioned for Mindblow use in-game, since it completely negates Aero 3 and you have no materia for that fight.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Jade (Breath of Fire)
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default) vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III) vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon) vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)- no vote
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)- iiiii vs Defender X (Final Fantasy X)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- i vs Jade (Breath of Fire)- iiii
Heavy
Ominas Crowe (Bravely Default)- iiii vs Tony Eisler (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Geddoe (Suikoden III)- iiiiiiii vs Say’ri (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Middle
Typhlosion (Pokémon)- ii vs Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy VII)- iii
Stocke (Radiant Historia)- iiiiiii vs Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon)
Light
Kahn Marley (Suikoden II) vs White Wizard (Final Fantasy)- iiiiiiii
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- ii vs Umaro (Final Fantasy VI)- i