The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: Excal on October 16, 2015, 10:08:41 AM
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Ah the Twink League. Taking all of those lovely toys that are locked away in proper DL matches and letting them out to play. Where any in game setup is not only valid, it's desirable. Really, what isn't there to love?
Oh, right. The initiative wars. And the fact that a lot of the people who get in there have their chances to shine anyways. No nobodies ever really get to apply.
So, let's dial things back a lot. Welcome to the Munchkin League, the Twink League's smaller companion. Just like before, this is a place to showcase in game setups that simply cannot exist in the DL, but letting them fight in a proper tournament. However, the power level is meant to be strictly in the upper end of Middle. As such, after nominations, there will be qualifiers where every nom goes up against 5 DL Standard heavies of roughly 3.9 strength. Anyone who wins a majority of fights is disqualified for being too powerful. After that, the tournament proper begins.
So, how to do your noms list? Pretty simple, nom what you like. If there's a lot of interest I may cap you, but until then, creativity is its own reward. And, as added fun, nom at least one Munchkin, then you can also nom a single DL Standard fighter you think might be interesting. They won't even need to run the gauntlet, but they have to be a Middle ranked char. The other thing worth noting, this is a Twink League, not a Nerf league. You can make someone better, but you cannot make them worse. Aside from that, any in game setup is valid.
And just for your crafting pleasure, here's the gauntlet they'll need to lose to in order to show they're not above the power threshold.
Slugger - Lyndis of Sacae
Mage - Rydia of Mist
Tank - Demi
Statuser - Beowulf Kadmus
Limit Fighter - Cloud Strife
For the appropriate power level, they should lose to at least three of the above five.
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Timelord without Time Eclipse or Overdrive, but maybe with Dullahans in all his absorb slots? I don't know if he's considered to have those default these days.
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MegaMari - Maribelle as a Valkyrie w/ Renewal, Tomefaire, Resistance +2, & 2 DL-irrelevant skills (e.g. Demoiselle). (Yes, to dip into both War Cleric & Sage this should be aftergame Maribelle, but whatever. Use the stat topic Valkyrie Maribelle except she regens 30% a turn and has +5 damage.) EDIT: Also has Celica's Gale.
Furious Vincent - Vincent w/ Deathblow Materia & 1 Mastered HP Up materia, starts in Fury status. (reminder: Vincent has 255 Hit weapons.) Hellmasker hype will be had. EDIT: Also has Fire Materia.
Sadistic Selphie - Selphie w/ Status Attack junction legal and always junctioned with Pain [Poison/Dark/Silence]. Reminder: Selphie has a 255 hit weapon.
May add more later.
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Random thoughts, mostly sanity checking builds for competitiveness + not being too strong.
-TimeLord without the iconic time spells is basically a variant on Silence/Zozma (generic mystic), though if he gets GriffithScratch he at least gets to have decent damage (no idea how good Crystalizer or Assassinate are). That could work as a Middle, sure. EDIT: Though yeah, it's clearly a nerf as per CK's comments below.
-Maribelle looks good. I don't have much to say about her specifically but I can't imagine that two skills (even good ones!) get Maribelle to be too good for Middle, or even close.
-Vincent's 255 hit weapons are weak (he'd much rather use a stronger weapon because limit physicals are already 255 hit) and result in a Deathblow which does like half average damage at best. (If the goal is to give him offence outside limits, try Comet if you want a mid-to-high 3HKO or elements if you want a 4-5HKO.) That said... odd limit fighter with some pretty cool variety in his limits, and I think one HP Plus puts him about at about the right place.
-For Selphie, it should be noted that FF8 blind is 25% accuracy, poison is 6% MHP after each action, and that Selphie is fractionally above average speed. That's enough status spoiling to be competitive, but not overpowered, and even makes her limit more relevant due to the effective opponent offence reduction.
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I think that TimeLord setup would fall under the "No Nerfs" clause anyway?
P-BOFF (Pidgeot Bred Only For Fighting)- Jolly, Keen Eye, Brave Bird/Roost/Giga Impact/Feather Dance (This setup is valid anytime Gen 4 or later, I'm generally assuming Gen 4 since it has the most complete stat topic to compare it to.)
Burlesque Dancer (FFT Dancer)- Has access to Hamedo and the Tynar Rouge (WotL female accessory, adds +3 PA/MA plus Auto-Hate/Shell/Protect. Also Boost: Holy but that's probably not relevant here.)
Kimahri Ronso, Backup Healer- detour through Rikku grid onto Yuna's.
Stats: HP–3444 MP–278 STR–27 DEF–28 MAG–42 SPR–23 AGI–28 LUK–18 EVA–21 ACC-12
Attack- 514 damage
Holy (85 MP)- 8223 damage
Curaga (20 MP)- 4880 healing
Reflect (14 MP)
Dispel (12 MP)
Regen (40 MP) (... FFX Regen seems to last 10 turns and regen randomly from 100 to 10% of HP. Not terribly useful!)
(will probably edit this post as I have time/thoughts)
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Ah, fair enough, I didn't read the last part.
In that case, Silence with Dullahans absorbed into all three Mystic Weapons should suffice.
Milich Oppenheimer with a Water Rune (may still be light?)
Relm with Phoenix and all of its spells (Life 1-3, Fire3, Cure3)
Momo with Meryleep as a Master (thinking that this would probably raise her speed significantly but lower her durability rather drastically as well?)
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EDIT: whoops, noticed this was somewhat ninja'd by Neph. My version has no Phoenix (so no Life 3) but more variety (isn't walled by fire immunity); it's overall stronger but more importantly I think it's more interesting.
Relm with the spells (not summons) from Starlet, Tritoch, Bahamut, Alexander. To be specific, this includes:
L3 elements, Flare, Pearl
Cure series, Esuna
Protect, Shell, Regen, Dispel
She has borderline 2-3HKO damage of various elemental/ITD flavours (the L3s and Flare all do about the same damage, Pearl is clearly into 3HKO territory), full healing and buffing. She still has above average speed/MDef/elemental resistance. However, she lacks any quick putaway options (there is deliberately no negative status here) and in longer fights she can definitely run out of MP. In the gauntlet, she can't handle Beowulf or Rydia, despite some modest status resistance, nor Lyn who can heal-lock her through Protect and has too much evade for a quick win.
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I'm fine using your version. I probably lowballed too much anyway, and you did the same thing I was going to do anyway!
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This one could likely use some tweaking, so feedback would be appreciated.
White Mage Aerith- Mastered Restore, Heal, and Barrier Materia, L2 Time Materia available.
Lots and lots of stalling power, but no damage except for her physical and no match-winning status. Gets easily statused out by Beowulf and Rydia and has no chance in hell of dodging a fatal limit from Cloud, probably has trouble with Lyn but I can't remember exactly how good her buffs are offhand. Demi would be an ugly stallfest that I'm not mathing out. Quite likely closer to low middle than high right now, hence I'm open to suggestions.
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More comments:
-Pidgeot is pretty much unchanged from his untwinked form beyond getting +10% speed and Giga Impact. It still 3HKOs average (although is very close to a 2HKO) and may well need to eat some nasty recoil to even do this, along with its bad durability. Still, Feather Dance off his boosted speed is huge against fighters. Against mages he'll need to rely on 2HKOing them most likely, but... he can sometimes do that, so yeah, works in Middle certainly.
-Silence... okay. Looking things up, Crystaliser uses the same added status routine as Cockatrice, while Assassinate mimics DeadEnd. These are based off Will, which Dullahans don't boost, so they're pretty much useless with the current build. Thus Silence has 3HKO damage, mystic coup de grace, above average speed but fragile. This could be Middle (average damage + coup de grace is barely turn 1 status), but Neph may want to switch out the non-sword Dullahans for something else since they're not useful. (Even the default Suzakus would be better since they boost Vit.)
-Water Rune Milich is an awful lot like Sonya with more durability but less speed. It's a losing trade, but certainly still enough for Middle: 3HKO damage, blind, and 15 shots of full healing off 1.45/1.41 durability goes a long way.
-Momo is a Heavy, so isn't eligible.
-Aeris... Stop is a nasty, nasty status, and it's 60%. With Haste, Aeris easily kills most opponents before Stop can wear off (7 turns in theory, slightly less in practice). So she's got turn 2 status and lots of turtle/healing options, FF7 positive status is all really potent (half all damage, double speed, half enemy speed, reflect). Aeris does likely fail to run the gauntlet, as noted (although Stop does beat Cloud, the one status he can't block!), but she's one of the strongest duellers nommed so far, I think, with limited resources (although limit healing can ease this) and low damage her only real weaknesses, along with being slightly below average speed. I'm not certain if she loses to anyone else nommed so far, though this is certainly correctable.
EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm not sure about Aeris losing to the guantlet.
Beowulf: The only person who clearly beats her. Block Stop, apply petrify, Aeris blitzes nothing.
Rydia: Comes down to views on status and who you see landing their status first. If Aeris is seen as faster, then her status being 60% means that she may win to some views, for all that she doesn't to mine.
Lyn: If Haste is seen as shutting off doubles, Aeris surely has this. If it isn't (i.e. my views), it depends on your views on FE criticals probably, Aeris will go Haste/Heal, Protect/Heal, so Lyn needs to proc a fatal crit in her first two turns (or a doublecrit through Protect before Stop lands). This could go either way.
Demi: A resource war which I have a lot of trouble parsing at the moment. Kinda leaning towards Aeris (again, the free limit healing goes a long way) but not sure.
Cloud: Gets owned by Stop.
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FWIW, Maribelle as initially described is definitely a low Middle or so at best. Probably doesn't beat any of the gauntlet. I can give her Celica's Gale as well so that she suddenly has damage... -8 damage vs. Bolganone but Tomefaire makes it -3 damage, and then 2x Hits, so she barely 2HKOS (Well, 4HKOs with double hits) or thereabouts. This lets her occasionally beat Lyn which is weird (when all 4 shots of Celica's Gale hit...) and maybe beat Rydia & Beowulf depending on status respect.
For Vincent, the goal is for him to win fights with his Limit, so I don't want to push his abilities without that too hard; mostly I just think him spinning his gun around with Deathblow is *cool* damnit.
On that note, not a big deal, but Rydia is actually about as hardcore about status as Beowulf. While Rydia has great damage, she also gets outsped & 2HKOed by High Lights, so she's more about a variety of disgustingly accurate yet often immuned statuses -or- some kind of full-healing game with Sylph. (Looking at the old DL rankings, I guess Flik would be more about a straight damage mage? But he's also considerably better than Rydia, so.) They are two different spins - Beowulf's status is worse but he's a lot more durable, etc.
Anyway, a few other ideas -
True Spiritmaster (BD) - Spiritmaster + White Mage passives / abilities. Notably that means Save WM MP for free, Holy One (better healing cheaper!), and even better MDef. Note that unlike stat-topic Spiritmaster, they will surely grab a Rod & Hermes Sandals, so very mildly above-average speed. *Still* has big MP problems, especially if he dares use Convert BP, but is probably a meh Middle now. (Cheaper Holies & ~700 MP means he can afford to buff & heal a little, unlike BD White Mage who is usually forced to blitz.)
Final Fina (Skies) - Fina, w/ Cupil Ring explicitly legal and 10 Sacrulen Crystals in her inventory per-fight (= full healing).
Spiritmaster loses to the entire gauntlet. Fina has a coinflip vs. Lyn (do you see Lunar Glyph as evadable since it has crappy damage attached? die horribly if so) , probably loses to Rydia (depends on if specials are still usable when Frog'd), probably beats Cloud, and has headachey matches vs. the rest.
And somebody should nom an FFT something by law.
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Let me go a bit more into depth for Silence on this one:
Weapon: Mariche (+25 All) MagicHeal
Gloves: Chariot (+25 STR, QUI, VIT) TigerRampage
Boots: Suzaku (+20 All minus CHA), TitasWave
I believe this would cap all of his stats except CHA which goes to 95 instead.
Unfortunately, there's no way to get both GriffithScratch and MagicHeal, so I went with this instead. I'm not terribly sure how much damage these abilities would do? I'm guessing somewhere in the 3-4000 range on their own, so probably a low 3HKO give or take? I'll let NEB be the final arbiter on this one. I'm also totally okay with dropping the Mariche if the MagicHeal makes him too good.
As for Momo, let's just change her to Peco with the same concept! That should be fine.
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Nah, his stats aren't capped. They are, assuming he keeps his default DL equipment set, 91/94/66/81/74/86/75. Compared to his default DL stats, that's slightly higher physical stats, slightly lower magical stats, and significantly higher Cha. The most notable change is speed, which is now +1.18 SD.
TigerRampage is slightly weaker than GriffithScratch (it would be similar, except enemy slash defence is lower than blunt/force defence) as well as weaker than LastShot or SkyTwister, and running some rough estimates using what we know about unarmed damage formulas, it should do around 2300 damage. (TitasWave should do slightly less than half that to an AoE, it's a weaker OgreRun. It also has last strike.) So, still a 3HKO, though a slightly lower one. MagicHeal will heal exactly 554 HP, or 71%, and also heals all ordinary Saga Frontier status except petrify and stun.
Looks good!
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Bah, too used to short-lasting Stops. Would an L2 Time Materia for Haste/Slow be fine there, or am I still underestimating something?
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Simple setup:
Lightning Mel & Thunder God Branky (S3) - Mel with a Lightning Rune equipped. Otherwise DL-legal.
EDIT: another one.
Wind God Jet (WA3) - Gale Claw + Lucky Hand Mediums, access to those two Mediums' PSs included. Otherwise DL-legal.
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Simple set-up:
Bondage Joachim - Equipped with Spikes. Legal set otherwise.
More complicated set-ups:
Jane (WA:ACF) - unlimited Tiny Flowers, Finest Arts, Critical Hit 1, and Critical Hit 2.
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FFT Bard with Equip Shield and Auto Potion.
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-Aeris without Stop becomes perfectly fair, I think.
-Lightning Mel is... Mel with Piccolo's spell damage/charge times and Hugo's spell charges, for quick reference. So she's got relatively averagish durability (dropping the Fairy Earrings helps) and a relatively speedy (just under +1 SD) 2HKO, although only 3 shots of it. Being elementally reliant does hold her in check a bit, enough to keep her out of Heavy I suppose (Nelis has better overall stats and deeper resources and is only borderline), and she does lose to Beowulf/Rydia/Lyn I would say.
-Jet is... a WA3 build based around evasion and we have no idea how good that is. :/ It's bad enough at fighting Middle/Heavy tier mages that I'm sure it's -okay-, but I won't say I like it much.
-Joachim build is just no. Spikes are stupid OP, and Joachim is already decent (and his SP negates their only real weakness). Turn 2 ID on someone immune to status and who won't die to damage pretty much ever! If you want a Spikes build, it should be on someone much weaker to start with, preferably with less than 40 SP. Not sure who would work best.
-Jane build... 37.5% critical, which inflicts ID and, against the ID-immune, has a 40% chance to do colossal damage (how colossal depends on how many bullets she has, but even with just one bullet it's a solid 2HKO, and she starts with 5?). Of course outside those crits of doom she's pretty much unchanged, high evade but bad damage, and Mystic to heal but at a big FP cost. IIRC there was some weirdness surrounding What Can You Do as far as interps go, I tend to assume it's crap but if you see it as useful (e.g. giving her some free turns against ST off doubleturns?) the build is probably too good, as it would now beat Beowulf/Lyn/Cloud at minimum. So I guess I want people to weigh on in this part of Jane.
-Bard is is all about turtling with Auto-Potion and Blood Harp's draining. This restores something around 2/3 average PCHP a turn (which incidentally is around Bard's max HP). Sooner or later though Auto-Potion will fail and at that point Bard may be in trouble, though of course shield evade will help him some. The piss-poor damage ensures that it isn't anywhere near Heavy despite a decent array of blockers and being harder to kill with direct damage than anyone with sub-0.7 durability should be.
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A few kind of general boost characters since I figure this type might be needed to help get a fuller bracket
Albert (LoD)- Bandit's Ring or other legal status accessory, Dragon Helm, Armor of Legend
Now has decent speed, his MDur is 50% better and his PDur is excellent. He can choose to drop the speed to block statuses with storebought blockers.
Rena (SO 2)- Valkyrie Garb+Angel Armband
Tank. Valkyrie Garb gives her better than Claude defense (cuts physicals about 30%) and then she can cast Protection to laugh at them pretty badly. Angel Armband at least halves all elements+still has a blocker for status. Hosed badly by status she can't block or fighters with dispel or ITD.
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-Jet is... a WA3 build based around evasion and we have no idea how good that is. :/ It's bad enough at fighting Middle/Heavy tier mages that I'm sure it's -okay-, but I won't say I like it much.
I actually wanted to make a Love Charm/Lust Jaw/Aqua Wisp Gallows setup, but turn 2 overkill off good durability alongside Status Lock and minor evade with ATT Blocker would be too much for this tournament, even with Gallows' below average speed. It's actually kind of difficult to strike a good balance on WA3 setups at the level of power required here.
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random ideas:
Lemina (Lunar 2 EBC): Has Healing Ring, Hero's Talisman, and 2 Chiro Crests May equip any staff.
Based on an in-game setup: May be too powerful due to the Chiro Crests along with the Hero Talisman resisting most physical/non-attribute damage. She is status bait and intentionally restricted from any status blocking and she'll never doubleturn anyone.
FFT Double Dare Knight/Monk
Male Knight set up
Punch Art
Weapon Gaurd or HP Restore
Martial Arts
no movement
May use Defender, Save the Queen, or Ragnarok. Cannot use Boots or Gauntlets. Storebought equips otherwise. 108 Gems allowed but elemental boosts ignored.
So SCC Knights suck. With a competent secondary,... still somewhat underwhelming and doesn't really translate well to a duel setting. Wonder if he can perform. Has evasion, durability, and some ways to get around evade with Earth Slash and Secret Fist. Lacks speed, damage output, and any sort of magical damage.
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Distorted Labyrinthia
Enigmancer OC
Fantastica OC
Def+25%
Res+25%
Sentinel EQ
Equipped with a Cuirass +6, or the corresponding plate mail of whatever tier of equipment you normally allow in the DL.
Her base durability is 88.1% physical, 75.0% magical (yes, Labby HP is so bad that even the twinking doesn't get her above average). After Protect, it rises to 139% / 98.7%, however. Protect lasts 3 rounds but can't be refreshed, so there will always be a one-round window where she can be attacked.
The build is mostly based around abusing Distortion, which nulls any damage which does less than 25% to her, although do note that average damage does break this even after Protect, so it's still mostly a spoiler move. Fantastica is there for some extra utility and making up for her crappy 77% base speed via Slow Down (also hey, MP kills). Enigmancer, in addition to Protect, gives Prevent (half magic accuracy for 3 turns, complements her 25% weapon block nicely) and Devastate. Devastate hits like a truck off Labby's offensive stats and Magic Effect+25%, doing almost exactly 2.5x average damage... but due to its limitations of 2 range and unable to be used post-movement, it can only be used if she doubleturns with Slow Down, or against an opponent who has closed to melee with her.
Against the guantlet, she loses to Beowulf and Rydia, who both have petrify, and Lyn, who breaks the distortion even after Protect. Demi and Cloud I suspect could go either way.
She's a bit hosed by status, if I come up with another nom it will probably be antistatus in some way because that seems to be a weakness of a lot of builds so far.
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Ramza
Must remain in Ubersquire class
Can set secondary and R/S/M with access to all <400 JP abilities for Knight, Archer, Chemist, Priest, Wizard. Relevant and semi-relevant abilities this gives him:
Knight: All breaks except Weapon and Armor, Weapon Guard
Archer: All Charges between +1 and +5
Chemist: X-Potion, all status heal items except Holy Water, Maintenance (Uh, relevant if he faces Izlude maybe? <_<), EQUIP CHANGE!!!
Priest: Cure, Cure 2, Protect, Shell, Regen, Wall, Esuna
Wizard: Fire/Ice/Bolt, Fire/Ice/Bolt 2
This is based on an ancient idea for making DL-legal Ramza slightly better that I vaguely remember hearing about, although I forget if it included tier 3 jobs or not. In any case, I took a look at Yin-Yang and decided to stop at tier 2 for this tournament. 400 JP is a good benchmark because it locks out Auto-Potion, Concentrate, Magic Defense Up, and a bunch of other powerful abilities.
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Bound no more: Dekar with the Rocket Ring and Twist Jewel. Dekar gets +70 speed and +50 defense from the setup.
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Agree with Elf that Joachim looks too good. I forget, but did Spikes null status as well? If they do, then he should sweep the gauntlet. If they don't, then weirdly enough Beo & Rydia probably win, but this is still probably an anomaly in that both have very exotic, hard-to-block status (e.g. Frog, Chicken), and SH2 blockers are generally badass - Spikes Joachim effortlessly deals with lots of Heavy status-slinger like Celia, Hugo, Nash, etc.
super: Dekar also looks like he beats too much of the gauntlet? He OHKOs Rydia. Lyn is a bit of a headache, but he isn't doubled now, and I don't think a Killing Edge / Mani Katti crit is even fatal to Dekar's crazy durability, so Lyn needs to troll for either a Killing Edge crit while Dekar is damaged or hope for a Sol Katti / Silver crit. Dekar will use the IP gained from his to buff his attack to OHKO levels (should only take a single use of Berserker), then try and murder Lyn. Even if his first attack misses, Lyn needs to crit on either the counter or her next move before he just either tries again or heals up. Cloud, well, depends on limit interps, and Dekar is bad at chipping but really good at finishing (.90 PCHP damage after just 1 buff!), so if Cloud wins its somewhat by luck that Dekar barely misses a buffed OHKO but can't lower his damage. (Although, from your stat topic, Gladius tap -> Holy Energy might do the trick, IP permitting? Dunno.) Dekar should probably be able to rush down Beowulf too, depending on shield hype, Beowulf is slooow so he might well get 3:2'd. Demi shouldn't ever be able to kill Dekar.
So yeah, he beats Rydia/Lyn/Demi and has coinflips / interp splits vs. Beowulf & Cloud.
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Beowulf easily handles Dekar. Blind alone is baaaaaaaaad news for Dekar there and he can't do shit about it. Would also be stunned if Dekar beat Lyndis.
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Okay I forgot Blind. But more generally, vanilla Dekar is a High Middle, and this tweak removes his most notable weakness (speed), and Excal is looking for a Middle field, that is, High Middle is already max'd out on power budget. So unless getting extra speed & defense does nothing to help Dekar (unlikely!), it seems like he'd edge into Heavy.
I'm not an expert at IP gains but Lyn isn't doubling and her damage is unspecial and it's vs. Dekar's 1.41 PCHP and now buffed defense. A Lyn Killing Edge crit is .95 PCHP or so vs. average defense (and is affected more by defense than regular attacks, and Dekar has good defense that is now even better). If she uses Sol Katti she has a 1.11 PCHP crit vs. average defense, but then she's getting doubled by Dekar and her evade is worse, so that's something of an all-in strat. Unless Dekar's IP gains are way worse than I expect he can possibly just try and run Lyn out of weapon charges if he really wants. And it's worth mentioning again that Dekar OHKOs Lyn after a single attack buff. Lyn's best hope is something like poke for so little damage that Dekar gains very little IP -> crit, but seems chancy at best. (Stats are from Elf's equal-XP topic for reference.)
EDIT: To ramble some more, if neo-Dekar's defense reduces damage by 20% or so, then Dekar can just drop to half HP then use full-IP healing since it literally takes 2 crits in a row to maybe kill Dekar. Dekar is faster so he'll never get double-turned so this is pretty safe.
That means Dekar is now 3 wins, 1 coinflip, 1 loss, and the goal is 3-5 losses.
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I'll get back to commenting on builds more later, but yeah Dekar is at worst a pretty competent Middle (three-time semifinalist in the DL proper, I see no robs on his part, and one of his runs was cut short by Cait "definitely not a Middle" Sith) so significant improvements to him probably make him too good. Like Joachim except his buffs aren't as potent.
New build of my own:
Jelanda Artolia: Equipped with a Fairy Ring and Mighty Check. Knows Poison Blow and Spell Reinforce in addition to her normal spells (Fire Storm and Heal, the latter is still 3 CT so pretty wretched). Has Auto-Item set and a stock of 10 Elixirs per fight (50% healing), one for every thousand deaths her opponents deserve.
The things you need to do to make a VP mage good... anyway, Poison Blow is a low-mid 3HKO, and can be used every turn, or buffed to a mid 2HKO. She's immune to status and regains half her health every turn for 10 turns... which would be better if she had more than ~81% pdur, so still not too hard to break past, or just survive. Against the gauntlet, Lyn just wrecks her, Demi Barrier-tanks to survive until either the items run out or just a doubleturn, and Cloud blocks poison and gets off a good limit (even Climhazzard is probably fatal). Rydia hits her with Death, which pretty much leaves Beowulf as her only possible win, and even he has a case depending if you see e.g. Chicken working, and in time).
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More comments~
-Albert... is again a case of taking a decent enough Middle and buffing him significantly, which is problematic. Because he still retains a big weakness to magic (1.2 mdur, but the raw stat is bad, which especially matters for status) it maaay be okay, but... checking the gauntlet, he easily beats Cloud (can dodge a L3, laughs at everything else) and Lyn (just... way too much pdur, and him 2HKOing should make up for the evasion), but I think he does lose to the other three? Still, uh, he beats Demi if you allow Defend since she's so undamaging against him, and has a case against Beowulf if you let him start with dragoon gauge (because Drain might miss against his boosted MDef).
-Rena's damage means she's unlikely to be a game-breaker. Tanky of course, but not ludicrously so, and can run out of resources. (I think post-Protect she cuts physicals by about 75%?)
-Lemina now has "speed as fast TB speed gets" and thirds physicals. Brutal slugger, but still not great durability against magic or status of course, and has resource limits. So she does probably lose to Beowulf and Rydia, but beats Lyn/Cloud. Demi... yeah, she beats her too I think, Dispel to remove Barriers and she 2HKOs, and hell she all but regens off Demi's damage. So this is probably a bit overbalanced. Both thirding physicals and first strike speed are huge buffs, so she should probably have only one.
-Knight's a weird tank, with fairly ludicrous evade and the potential to lower whatever damage type he faces with Protect/Shell, and the same Punch Arts as non-Power Sleeve Monk. He has loads of options and can KO in four turns with Secret Fist or try to turtle with Chakra (which is shockingly legit on his durability). Low offence will cost him against Rydia and Beowulf (man they beat almost everyone), but the evade is probably too much for Lyn he and outlast Demi with Power Break+Chakra. Cloud he can outlast, power break a lot and block ID. So a bit too strong. I'm not sure what to point at that needs a nerf. Removing the knight swords and mantles may make the build feasable... Knight and Monk individually are already Middles, so again, combining them is probably all the buffs they need.
-Ramza has so many options! But being stuck in Ubersquire does limit his game a bit.
Against Beowulf: Ramza is going to try to break his weapon, which wrecks him entirely. I suspect he can do that, since HEAL protects him from Blind and no other non-petrify status scares him -that- much. Good fight.
Against Rydia: Ramza can 2HKO Rydia and an Aegis Shield will ward off her status for a turn. Doesn't even need his skills from other classes for this one!
Against Demi: I think Demi will grind him down. If Ramza could simultenously heal AND use breaks, he might take this, but I don't think Scream + white magic healing will be enough... could be argued.
Against Lyn: His best hope is to Scream until he isn't doubled, then turtle from there using Item or something like it. This probably depends on views a lot.
Against Cloud: Scream/Item lets him dodge any limits he wants.
That's probably slightly too strong, not a single match he clearly loses and I favour him in around 3. It's a shame because I really like this build. I suspect removing Item (or perhaps a harsh limit on his item supply) would make it fine, although that's obviously arbitrary.
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Weapon Break is 400 AP, so explicitly out for Ramza. Aegis Shield buys him a fair amount of time vs Beowulf, but I'm not sure how well he is at actually killing the latter... Charge something would be his best bet, I think? But no Concentrate, so 1/3 attacks is probably going to be evaded.
Sylph is full healing for Rydia if I'm reading the stat topic correctly, and I wouldn't see summons as evadable. Offense isn't going to work for him there, and Bahamut overwhelms his healing I'm pretty sure.
I'd definately vote Rydia and Lyn over that Ramza build, and probably Beowulf. Demi... what's her lightning weakness again? If it's 2x, then Coral Sword Charge+3/4s (whichever he can pull off) might 2HKO her. If it's only 1.5x he's likely screwed there, don't think 1-2 Screams is enough.
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Yeah, I forgot about Weapon Break being banned, my bad. That certainly costs him any shot at Beowulf. Demi's lightning weakness is 1.5x before defence (tends to end up as like 1.7-1.8x in practice).
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If people want to go wild with buff ideas and such (which is fine - that's kind of the main appeal of a twink league), you really should probably look at Light as a base rather than Middle when "upper Middle" is the desired power point. Taking competent Middles will generally just make them too good. The gauntlet is designed as a sanity check; you can still lose to 3/5 because of matchup specifics but still probably be off on the power scale.
EDIT: If you want some hilarity with Ramza, make him "little money" Ramza and give him a gil budget for all of his equipment and consumables to be used once per fight.
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Oh, one more setup:
Blind Bruiser Lucia (SH2) - Lucia with a Mind's Eye. Otherwise DL-legal. Basically a stronger extension of her DL self. This gives her a lowish 2HKO that she can buff to a high 2HKO. You may want to give her accuracy issues due to Mind's Eye's nature, but I think this works. Also somewhat anti-status by default due to SH's general statusblocker goodness. Her subpar speed and durability should keep her in check for the tournament, at least.
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Scrap my Albert build and replace with:
Kongol- Legend Casque (Takes about 65% from magic, making him have HP, Def and Mdef) or Magical Hat (50% more MP and same Magic Attack as Legend Casque), Gives him magic attack similar to Albert, Bandit Shoes (makes him 50 Speed; still slow), choice of Magical Ring (Increases Magic Attack by 30), Rainbow Earring (immunes non ID status), Amulet (Double MP) or Wargod Sash (+50% more SP). So middling damage, still bad speed, but durable and with options to shut off status, actually give him some SP growth or try to run some magical strategies if he goes against someone who is just anti-physical.
Hard to buff him without just going for speed. I figure this at least reflects a balanced version keeping his major flaw.
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Laggy's suggestion sounds more fun than trying to salvage my other ideas.
Go right ahead and drop the Hero Talisman from Lemina if desired. Still probably too strong. Oh well, I have no big attachment to her making it in.
...and I forget that Diamond Armlet exists. Too strong for Knight. While I'm entertaining the idea of making him into a her, I have a sillier idea.
Natto the Singing Swordsman: FFT Knight with
Sing
MA Save
nothing
Move + 3 or Fly
No Gauntlets or Diamond Armlet Storebought equips otherwise. Wanted to give him access to some knight swords but probably too powerful. Considering throwing out Reflect Mail if it makes things too easy Also open to restricting Mantles but would prefer not to.
Klutz maker Laguna
Has Siren and the following Junctions:
Confuse to Status Attack
One single status on Status Defense Death, Break, Stop, and Aura are banned; too strong
No Character abilities set
He also gets Regen for casting because I find it funny to imagine him struggling for a Limit without reliable healing.
25% chance each turn of Laguna getting a leg cramp and doing nothing. Every 4th action works for simplicity.
Draw, Magic, and Treatment are his commands. (GF is a headache to implement)
She can heal herself Flonne
Has Heal and Star spells available st Skill level 5
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Laggy's Gen 3 Jumpluff
Carries Leftovers
Moveset: Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Substitute, Aerial Ace
Only fights in glorious sunlight. If only I could be so grossly incandescent.
(this means Chlorophyll is assumed to be activated)
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Yeah, I suppose scrap my earlier two ideas - no idea who to switch in for Joachim and Jane is a headache.
Officer Mariel -
Mariel (WAACF) with a Sheriff Star and on level with everyone else.
Has a lot more HP and defense, but that offense is still freaking sad. Struggles to kill anything ever, but shouldn't ever die if she's not 2HKOed right out of the gate.
Vampire Viktor -
Viktor (Suikoden 2) with a Killer Rune and Draining Rune, and Exertion Rune on the weapon.
Doesn't really change his game much, aside from more damage from crits and healing... And more damage over time.
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Laggy's Gen 3 Jumpluff
Carries Leftovers
Moveset: Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Substitute, Aerial Ace
Only fights in glorious sunlight. If only I could be so grossly incandescent.
(this means Chlorophyll is assumed to be activated)
I love you.