Register

Author Topic: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3  (Read 1840 times)

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5562
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« on: March 16, 2015, 01:51:43 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4935
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 02:11:36 AM »
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Paralysis and/or Supernova.
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Indy clears out the tentacles pretty quick I suspect.
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)
2HKOs before Lenneth gets a turn and OHKOs her?  Unless Forcefield is better than I recall.  Although...  did Reclaimer start with nobody in range?  I'd be happy to penalize it and require it to spend a turn to close if that's true in-game, considering how often WA4 boss turns end up spent on movement...

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
You couldn't change equips in combat, right?  Justin has magic backup in-game but not by DL convention, so.
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Uh Marle is kind of a magic spoiler, she can tank doubled Aureola....  and actually, checking the equal-XP topic, that one antihypes Athos's speed a lot more than I recall, he actually doubles with nothing, not even Thunder.  So tank Aureola, Haste, doubled Provoke (tanking another Aureola if needed!) -> lol.  (Not sure I'm down with even hyping Athos's Res here, IIRC Provoke was learned pre-Spekkio so it isn't magic.)   EDIT: Oh right Luna.  Sigh.  That crit rate is an issue, sure.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
No Paralysis resist for Arnaud?  But an opening Slow Down is still pretty potent here...  Alfina can paralyze -> move out, but the duration woudl have long since worn off.  Seems an uphill battle for Alfina, especially with Magic Blocker possibly trolling Alfina's offense, but will await arguments.

Middle

Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)
Tanks a limit, wins anyway.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
oh god match of doom territory.  Neither can do damage to the other, Yulie tinks & Nowi only barely overwhelms Material, let alone Yulie's magic healing, and Counter-Heal will slowly give Yulie back MP.  Luckily for Yulie once Nowi's Dragonstone+ breaks, she's in considerably worse shape, and even if spotted a normal Dragonstone backup, eventually it will break and Yulie can win against the now stat-less Nowi.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 11:10:00 PM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8134
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 03:24:14 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Everything about the final form is something Shania hates (holy damage, dispel, a status she can't block). No one of those spells instant doom to her game but I really can't envision her getting through this, similar to PD vs. Yuri.
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI): Paralysis on the ITE fast physical.
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III): While it's true that Indalecio can clear out one of the tentacles pretty well (the second is immune to magic, so no dice there), this still feels like a bad matchup for him? CoD has great damage control and can also buff herself with Haste against form 1 after which she can do 1.4 PCHP a round. Indalecio isn't getting off more than one Explode and two basic spells and that's not even close to enough to me.
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series): Lenneth absolutely needs to dodge once to win this. She is pretty dodgy but not sure if it's enough, may look into this more later.

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia): Justin's best hope is that his weapon is immune to breaking. If not he loses instantly. If that's the case, Rofel breaks his armour first to lower his damage, then something else to finish the 2HKO. Justin could come in with no equipment, but... surely he still gets 2HKOed anyway, and also has to worry about status. And I don't see one unboosted H&E Cut as one-shotting Rofel.
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger): Luna 2HKOs and Marle can't survive the eventual crit. Her only hope is to status first, but Provoke can't be doubled and either has to contend with Athos' awesome Res or his decent evade, and has to be constantly reapplied. I think it's too much.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4): Kneejerk is Slow Down keeps Alfina from really taking advantage of Stun Force at all, and Armageddoning instead still leaves Arnaud with the edge speed-wise... but she blocks his ID/sleep bullshit so he has to kill with damage which is very slow after Armageddon. But eh, Armageddon wears off and I have to think speed makes up the difference of any damage.

Middle

Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII): Has enough damage control to not face a L3, and isn't being outslugged otherwise, I don't think.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Nowi's thing is being durable, a healer spoils that. Also, Yulie has the ITD Sacrifice, so no dice hyping tinking here. EDIT: Oooh, but she can't use Sacrifice against range 1-2 counters, riiight. Well. My respect for subtraction defence is still lower enough that this isn't an issue, but that is amusing.
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire): Sara can enjoy not fighting healers for now.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant): Lucia can Rage then 2HKO, but that's still giving Anna three attacks even if Lucia never misses. And she surely will once.
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross): Speed should let her take this, I'd think. It's possible she even has a 4-3.
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III): uhhh kneejerk
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 05:38:41 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2188
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 06:36:30 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Good job beating Xorn, Stripmonixer.
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) - Yep.
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series) - Not really about to hype VP1 evade that hard here.

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - See Elfboy.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Kneejerk.

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II) - Ooooor Poco could 2HKO here, that would work.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Jeez.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) - Goes first and isn't OHKO'd.
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 02:24:41 AM by Random Consonant »

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 06:43:12 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)- MIDAIR CUT VS ROFEL DEFENSE no.
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)- Poco is going to curbstomp this half of Middle.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)= I... think Cid has a 3HKO? (L1/two physicals). If Khalamari goes first, I'll flip the vote.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- Go away Nowi.
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- When in doubt, vote against Lucia.
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)Nei's kind of competent. Peppor is Peppor. 
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- Miriel avoids eating a OHKO.
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
Modify message- SS had a ton of Mdef, should be able to run Miranda out of MP.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12981
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 02:54:45 PM »
Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - See Elfboy. There's a lot here going on against Shania and, to make things worse, she's constantly 2HKOing even through Sanlittobel on nearly all her forms.
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) - STOP! HAMMERTIME!
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series) - uhhhhh that's not the kind of damage Lenneth lives through.

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia) - oh yeah
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier) - Red ignores evade and 2HKOs through -anything- Aigis can do. He certainly can lock her until a fatal double.
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - :luna:
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Seriously kneejerking against Alfina here. Problem with Armageddon is that Arnaud just dispels the debuffs and the damn thing is OPB (99 SP, guys. Not even OK's levels give Alfina more than 180 SP max), and he has the turn edge post-Slow Down even after it. I just can't really see how Alfina can parlay her stalling tricks into a victory when Slow Down puts such a crimp on her game.

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II) - Silence immunity doesn't do Poco's durability any favors, but he likely doesn't have to endure it for very long with Mind Buster and his 2HKO on Kyle's sketchy mdur. If he goes first, blocking silence isn't even necessary.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII) - ... uuuuuuh I think this is right given my scaling, where Cid has a 2HKO to average by the edge of his teeth and he should go first. In a fight where both 3HKO, whoever is faster wins. GRANTED, both are below average speed by appalingly similar amounts, but considering how Khal's below average against the slowest party in the game, I think I tiebreak for Cid here.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Even if you respect tinking here, Yulie just slooooooowly runs Nowi out of her Dragonstone charges until Nowi's a sitting duck. Since Nowi has a grand crit rate of ZERO, Yulie runs absolutely no real risk of dying to an unlucky RNG string as long as she plays it safe.
Chloe Hertzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire) - Middle slugfesting vs. Sara, oh boy

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Buffing is a nice thought, but Anna only gets 2HKOed even post-buffing and Lucia has to trigger the nasty evade and those counters. No doubling occurs, but Anna has the upper hand here.
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross) - sure
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) - Miriel goes first, counters, 3HKOs and isn't OHKOed. She's pretty well set into victory here.
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III) - Miranda heal-locks Sacred Slayer with her physical post-WOW! and gets somewhere along the lines of 7HKOed under a generous assumption. She has -tons- of time to parlay even a pressure game as sketchy as this into a victory.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 05:19:18 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 04:54:02 PM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) - Sure
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III) - Well, I gave it to Indy over Nailah on general respect levels. Going to do the same for CoD over Indy.
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier) - Yeah, he keeps up too much pressure
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - sure, luna
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II) - S5 bemoans having the worst silent lake.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - 0% crit chance? Really? Goddammit Nowi.
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Too much evade I think.
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross) - I think she can shake him off.
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) - Counters should handle this neatly.
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III) - Sure
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 888
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 03:20:20 AM »
Godlike

Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) - Crushes.
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series) - Crushes.

Heavy

Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier) - Pretty sure Aigis doesn't have much of anything to press the offensive with here.  I'm also pretty sure Aigis is stuck heal-locked for this fight and her SP runs out before Red's WP.  Would have to check, though.
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - right, Provoke doesn't do much in a duel against a duelist who only uses basic attacks.  And Athos goes first anyway. [EDIT] Abstaining for now.  I need to math out if Marle could force Luna breakage by confusing and then taking a stalling tactic, now that I am reminded that it cuts damage to 25%.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Arnaud versus not-Arnaud.

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - This one's tricky for me, because Nowi goes first (PB speed versus 90% CTB speed) and gets an attack on an unprotected Yulie.  The real thing here is wondering if this ends up heal-locking or oneshotting because I'm not really sure I would take Brave weapons as average...eh, she probably survives, and that ends it for Nowi.  Yulie casts Quicken, gets another turn before Nowi gets her second, and heals up, further buffing on doubles.  Nowi can't deal from there.  Might change my opinion if Nowi could manage 67% PCHP in a hit versus a non-brave average but...

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Lucky Seven evade plus natural evade versus...Lucia.
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross) - Match of amazing part 4.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 06:10:50 AM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8134
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 03:57:27 AM »
Quote
Provoke doesn't do much in a duel against a duelist who only uses basic attacks

It does a fair bit, actually, since it greatly lowers both the accuracy and damage of said basic attacks. However, any damage breaks confuse, so Marle needs to repeatedly reapply it (and said attacks trigger counters if you see those as applicable... though Marle can avoid those with the somewhat costly Ice 2).

Quote
...  did Reclaimer start with nobody in range?  I'd be happy to penalize it and require it to spend a turn to close if that's true in-game, considering how often WA4 boss turns end up spent on movement...

I should check this, but honestly, I don't think hyping this would really help Lenneth. Reclaimer has a bunch of long-range options, including the match-winning sleep... and if you force Reclaimer to waste a turn moving due to in-game you should also extend that penalty to his melee opponents, unless they have a compelling reasons to be able to move and attack on one turn.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 07:37:29 AM »
Wouldn't the argument be that if he has to move, he has to waste his first turn; but since he's already moved, your PCs don't (Yes, I agree that if he starts off with LR, this should get around the penalty. Doesn't help him versus VP 1 Lenneth for me).
...into the nightfall.

Magic Fanatic

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1346
  • As if it wasn't already.
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 03:20:38 PM »
Doesn't Marle basically win if the Stop on her arrows procs, or do counters still go through that?

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12981
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 04:52:48 PM »
Stop is turn two -before- evade, faces counters and Athos 2HKOs. The odds of it backfiring and eating her face are much higher than the odds of it working out, since in practice she only gets one chance to proc the status.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 04:56:16 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8134
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 05:00:58 PM »
Stop does seal off counters, yes. As Snow observes the issue is that failed Stop attempts trigger them (unlike failed Confuse attempts). Since Marle is only ~163% speed, and Athos will 2HKO her every turn, then Marle's only hope is to haste/heal, then heal/attack on a double (which won't even be the next turn), and pray that Stop lands (if you see her doubling, she has two chances; otherwise, she has one) since if it doesn't Athos will kill her on the next turn. So Marle pretty much needs (a) you to not see Athos 2HKOing, or (b) FE counters not being a thing even against ranged supremacy, or (c) Marle to both double Luna!Athos AND Stop to be no worse than turn 2. I would imagine an aggregate chance of victory would also be bad for Marle because the best-case scenario involves giving Athos three shots of Luna (= 37 crit, adjust how you will due to enemy luck and respect) before she fires her first arrow.

Quote
Wouldn't the argument be that if he has to move, he has to waste his first turn; but since he's already moved, your PCs don't (Yes, I agree that if he starts off with LR, this should get around the penalty. Doesn't help him versus VP 1 Lenneth for me).

That's right, yes. However, if such a penalty is imposed, Reclaimer Dragon won't waste a turn moving, but will spam sleep instead, and Lenneth is the one who needs to eat a turn to catch up to him. Obviously once one of Reclaimer or his opponent close in, the other one doesn't have to.


EDIT: Just looked up the Reclaimer Dragon fight. He does indeed start at range, so would have to move if you hold him to that, as would any melee PCs (as well as Jude, since Reclaimer doesn't start on a line with Jude, so I guess arrows/guns are questionable as well?). Obviously Raquel (Move and Attack) and Arnaud (Blast) don't have to move, though. If I were to impose a move penalty here, I would thus impose it on Reclaimer's melee moves, and on his melee opponents, unless they have a good reason to be seen as extra mobile like Raquel (so, FE paladins and flyers, for instance). Needless to say, Sword Lenneth doesn't qualify to me.

Having said that I don't think I impose this penalty in general. Could be argued!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 05:14:16 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5064
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 05:11:45 PM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier
)
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 05:14:56 PM by Luther Lansfeld »
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4935
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 06:00:15 PM »
Re RD: In general I'd let the PC pick in a case like that, but it's real shaky.  Anyway, amusingly enough, I'd see Bow Lenneth OHKOing (and shrugging off Sleep thanks to accessory)...  IF she was held against the usual VP1 average.  Unfortunately for her she gets the full-GR-Lenneth average for me, so no dice, and since most others didn't bite on Lucina OHKOing Reclaimer I doubt anyone else will be on board for Bow Lenneth OHKO hype!  But a nice thought at least.

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1789
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2015, 02:00:49 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series): Blech Reclaimer Dragon.

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia): I think he's faster...
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier): I'm guessing everyone else is voting this way...
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger): I'm guessing with AS-averaged damage...
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4): Magic Blocker is surely a boon here. Slow Down goes first and... well that should do the trick since Alfina probably doesn't KO with Armageddon -> Magic...

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II): I guess he can 2HKO?
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8134
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2015, 05:24:56 AM »
This is mostly a "for future reference" comment, but...

Quote
Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia): I think he's faster...

He shouldn't be. Justin is below average speed according to both G1 stat topics. Rofel is average on the dot using the FFT plot PCs stat topic, but remember that FFT enemies win ties (which given the discrete values is actually quite significant, I tend to view them as +0.5 of their listed speed due to this), and anyway the generic average is lower. You could argue about using more Sprint Shoes or something, I guess, but that's about it (the other speed-boosting equipment involves things like Deep Dungeon treasure hunting or poaching hydras, which I highly advise you don't consider) so Rofel really should be at least average.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4935
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2015, 06:39:02 AM »
Well, on a devil's advocate note, Orlandu is only 1/16 of the plot PCs topic but the Excalibur is much more likely to be 1/5 of your party in-game. 

I don't think I'd be THAT harsh to poor FFT bosses, especially since PC mages also have charge times making them effectively a tad laggy and Divine Swordskills don't, but still, it's something.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8134
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2015, 07:00:53 AM »
1/11 actually, but yeah that's a fair point. Although it's possible for Excalibur to land on someone slower in-game too, which would dent its effect... but only a little. (+4 instead of +5). Still... even if we take a "plot PC speed average, with Excalibur treated as +4.5 and counted as 1/5, that would make the average 10.3, which I would argue still leaves Rofel as above average, and as you note charge times are a thing, and as I already mentioned the generics are slower, etc.

While I'm looking at FFT averages in general I will think aloud and note that they include Cloud, and these days Level 40 Cloud probably isn't something that flies to many people. Fortunately if you just want to drop him entirely, he's not too far from average at anything so it won't make a big impact. (If you want to keep a Level 5 Cloud or whatever in the averages, obviously that juices everyone else some. I'm not inclined to.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5562
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2015, 08:51:38 PM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)- No vote.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- No vote.
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Twilkitri

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2015, 03:01:49 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Justin (Grandia)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) vs Miranda (Grandia III)

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5562
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2015, 07:45:42 PM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- iiiiiii vs Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)- iiiiiiiiii vs Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story)- i vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)- iiiiii
Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)- iiii vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)- ii

Heavy

Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiii vs Justin (Grandia)- i
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)- iiiii
Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)- iiiiiiii vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)- i
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiiii

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)- iiiii
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)- iiiii vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)- iii
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiiiiiii vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Sara (Breath of Fire)- iiiiiii

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- iiiiiiii vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nei (Suikoden III)- iiiiiiii vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)- i
Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- iiii vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- i
Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)- i vs Miranda (Grandia III)- iiiiiiii
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.