The RPG Duelling League
RPGDL Games => Game Design and Modifications => Topic started by: Nephrite on June 20, 2011, 02:44:39 AM
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Newest notes as of 7/27
Cocatrice - Now 1 Gale up front, 3 Petrifies in the back.
Golem - Base Int raised to 50, int per level raised to 2. All resistances raised to 70 except Fire which is 50. Now do 2x Punch in the back.
Rock Golem - Base Int raised to 50, int per level raised to 2. All resistances raised to 75 except Fire which is 50.
Iron Golem - Base Int raised to 50, int per level to 2. All resistances raised to 85 except Fire which is 50
Muse - Now promote at level 13, 60-100 alignment and also gain 4 strength per level.
Ravenmen - Now promote at level 15.
Raised the average level of Kalbian Peninsula to around 20 to better reflect the story progression, It's advised you go there after Shangrila.
Also raised the level of Tundra so you can safely do it after Antalia without the enemies suddenly going down in level.
Raised Gares' support levels to 28.
Raised Rashidi and his support's levels to 33 and 30 respectively.
Raised Diablo's level to 35
Nixie - Now have 4/3/3 for stat growths.
Everyone seems to be getting on the bandwagon for this these days so I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring with a game I am much more familiar with than others.
The idea behind this isn't to necessarily increase difficulty, but it will probably do that just by virtue of making the classes better. I also intend to fix a great deal of enemy formations so there aren't so many front row Wizards.
I am posting this mainly to post my ideas and also to get feedback from anyone else who feels strongly about things one way or another. I am not sure I can change things like Beastmasters granting bonuses to Beasts and so on but I'm going to look into it.
A few things that come to my mind is that a lot of classes are completely invalidated by the special characters, which is fine in its own right but it's still kind of sad. I'll probably be reducing the stats on a few of them and boosting other classes to compensate. Along with that, the Witch blows. I am going to be fixing that and probably giving her a promotion, hopefully I can do that with the Nightmare editor. Samurai Masters will most likely be getting two Iainukis from the back because they had a hilariously pointless promotion.
Monsters are another class that tend to suck too much, I'd like to increase their resistances a bit and also give them some more attacks especially in their later promotions. I don't think I can save Octopi but I'll try.
I am going to make Charisma and Alignment potions storebought because I fucking hate the fact that it's so hard to finagle that sort of thing. I will also be modifying Charisma requirements so that there's a lot more leeway so if you can't buy the potions you're not totally screwed.
If anyone else has any ideas or opinions, by all means please post them.
---Class Changes as of 7/15---
$4F Lord (Phantom) - Increased Str/Agi per level to 3 and Int per level to 5. Replaced Phantom with Meteor, increased Front Row attacks to 3 and back row to 2. Phys resist now 50, Black resist now 65. Base Alignment raised to 50.
Reasoning: This guy sucked. I want to make him the magical focus lord while still being able to be put in the front row if so desired.
$50 Lord (Good) - Increased Physical resistance to 50, Fire to 40, Cold to 40. Increased Strength per level to 4, agility to 3.
Front Row attack is now 3x White-Strength Based attack and back is 2x Icecloud.
Reasoning: Guy was pretty good originally but having Banish was... odd. This one is a little better at fighting and has a base white attack as well for DEMON SLAYING.
$4E Lord (Sonic) - Back row attack now 2x Iainuki.
Strength per level 5, Agility 3, Intelligence 1. Physical Resistance now 65.
Reasoning: Physical Lord. No real reason to give him much more. Gave him another Iainuki, this way you need to choose between front row attacks or back row with backlash.
$51 Lord (Thunder)
Raised resistances to at least 50 across the board. Front row attack is now 2x Strength Gale and back row is 2x Thunder. Strength/Agility/Int is now 4 per level. Fire Resist now 45.
Reasoning: Having two AoE attacks Makes the Thunder Lord stand out a little more. Much more well-rounded.
**Note, Charisma requirements have been removed from all classes.
Angel-Increased Banish in back row to 2x.
Beastman- Renamed "Tamer." Increased agility per level from 2 to 3, int from 1 to 2. Can now recruit Gryphons instead of Fighters.
Beast Master - Renamed "Whisperer." 3x attack in front or back row. Increased agility per level to 4. Now promotes at level 10, 10-65 Alignment
Black Dragon - 3x Physical in front. Increased alignment max to 45.
Cerberus - Can promote at level 12, 0-100 alignment.
Cherubim - Banish in back row now 3x, now promotes at level 8, 50-100 Alignment.
Cleric - No change.
Cockatrice - 2x Gale up front and 3x Petrify in back, Increased stats per level to 4/5/2. Raised Weight type to Dragon level, should be easier to get High Sky with one.
Coffin - No change. TANK
Demon - 2x Nightmare in back replaced with 1x Meteor. Increased Int per level to 4. Can now promote with up to 50 alignment.
Devil - 3x Strength Black attack up front, 2x Meteor in the back. Can now promote at 16. 4/4/4 per level.
Doll Master - 3x Physical up front, 2x Acid in the Back. Now gains 3/3/4 for stats. Physical resistance is now 46. 50-100 Alignment.
Doll Mage - Strength is now 2 per level. Physical resistance now 40. Alignment now 35 to 75.
Dragon - Increased agility and int per level to 2.
Dragon Master - 3x Melee up front, 3x Magic in the back. Stat gains are 4/4/3, Resistances are all 55 except for Physical, White and Black which are 40. Now promotes using the Stone of Dragos. Now recruit Tier 3 dragons.
Dragoner - Now promotes from Valkyrie starting at level 12. All resistances now 50 except Physical, White and Black, which are 40. Melee up front, Magic in the back, 2x. Can promote from 0-100 Alignment.
Eagleman - Backrow Thunder replaced with MT Thunder. Strength/Int boosted to 3 per level. Now promote at level 10. 0-100 Alignment.
Evil One - Now use Str-Inferno in back row. 3 attacks both places. Strength and Int gains now 4 per level. Now promote at level 14. 0-45 Alignment. Base cost now 1100
Faerie - Replaced with Siren class, promotion from Witch. 2x Fire or Charm up front (Cerberus) 1x All Magic in the back. 4 HP Per level, 5 Int per level. Promoted at level 10, 0-50 Alignment. Black resistance 55, White Resistance 35.
Ghost - No Change.
Gold Dragon - 4x Melee up front, 2x Icestorm in the back. 5 Strength, 4 Int. 60-100 Alignment. Level 15.
Golem - 1x Quake in the back row. 2 Agility per level.
Gryphon - 3 Strength per level. Physical resistance raised to 50. Increased Weight priority to Dragon-level, should be easier to get High Sky with one now.
Halloween - HP per level raised to 5, Strength to 4. Raised physical resistance to 70, lowered Fire Resistance to 30. Can now be recruited by Deneb by default.
Hawkman - 2 attacks from the back.
Hellhound - No change.
Imp - Now get 2 Nightmares in the back. Strength reduced to 2 per level.
Iron Golem - Now promoted from Rock Golems at level 16. 4/3/3. 3x Melee up front, 1x Quake in the back. Fire resist raised to 60.
Knight - Now get 2x Healing in the back row. Knight now gets 2 Int per level.
Kraken - Strength increased to 5 per level, agility to 3. Physical resistance increased to 75. (they honestly aren't that bad, really)
Lich - 3x Magic in the front row, 2x Aoe Magic in the back. Base cost is 1500 and cost per level is 400. Fire resistance reduced to 45. Now promotes from Undead Staff from Mage. Can no longer "promote" into Skeletons.
Lycan - 2 Attacks in front and back. Now gains the same stats as Tigermen during the day.
Mage - Alignment 0-40, level increased to 11. Int per level increased to 5, HP per level to 3.
Mermaid - 3/3/3 for levels, Phys resistance up to 40. 2 Blizzard in the back row.
Monk - Now promoted at level 16. 55-100 Alignment.
Muse - 55-100 Alignment.
Ninja Master - 4x Attack from the front, 2x Aoe in the back. 0-50 Alignment. White Resistance raised to 25. Now promote at level 13.
Ninja - Can now lead units. (why couldn't they before?) Strength per level reduced to 2.
Nixie - 3x Melee in front, 2x Icestorm in back. 3/3/4 Now have 45 Phys resist.
Octopus - Strength increased to 3x per level.
Paladin - Now use Healing+ (Aoe) 2x in the back. 4 strength per level, 3 int per level. 60-100 Alignment.
Phantom - Promotes from Ghost at level 12
Pixie - Replaced with Wicca class (Unique to Deneb) Front row is Charm/Fire (Cerberus), back row is 2x Endora's Magic. Also grants 1 extra attack if made leader. 32 Physical Resistance, 60 everything else, 80 Black, 25 White.
Platinum Dragon - Renamed Bahamut. 4x Cold in the front. 12 HP per level, 4 agility, 5 int. Phys resistance to 60. Promotes at level 20. 55-100 Alignment.
Princess - No longer gives +1 attacks as a leader. Now has 2x Jihad up front, 2x Starlite in the back.
Pumpkin - 3/3/2 Phys resist to 50.
Ravenman - 2x Melee up front, 2x Nova in back. 2/4/4 35 Phys resist. Promotes at level 15 from Eagleman. 0-55 Alignment.
Red Dragon II - Renamed to Fire Dragon. 3x Fire in the back. Int to 4 per level. 25-65 alignment. 50 phys resistance.
Red Dragon - 3 Melee up front. 25-65 Alignment.
Rock Golem - 1 Quake in the back. 2 Agility per level.
Salamand - Renamed Salamander. 4 Fires up front, Promotes at 21. 4 Agility, 5 Int. Phys to 70.
Samurai Master - 4 Strength per level, 3 agility. Phys resistance to 60. 2x Iainuki in the back. 55-100
Samurai - Phys resistance to 50. Promotes at level 6.
Seraphim - 4 Halos up front, 2 Jihads in the back. 3 Strength, 5 intellect. Promotes at level 16. 65-100 Alignment.
Shaman - 50-100 Alignment.
Silver Dragon - 3 Melee up front. 3 Agi per level. 55-100 Alignment.
Skeleton - Promotes to Wraith!
Soldier - Unchanged.
Sorceror - Replaced with a unique class for Galf.
Sylph - Replaced with an upgrade for Eagleman, the Vultan. (Eaglemen actually were Vultans in the original Japanese game but whatever)
Tiamat - 3x Acid up front. Max Alignment is now 45.
Tigerman - 3x Lifesuck up front.
Valkyrie - Unchanged.
Vampyre - Renamed to Vampire, because seriously. 3 attacks in front and back. Might change the Charm to the Cerberus Fire/Charm versions.
Werewolves - Unchanged.
Wild Man - Renamed Berserker. 2 attacks in the back row now, HP per level reduced to 5, physical resistance reduced to 30, strength increased to 4 per level. 0-55 alignment.
Witch - 3 SLAPs up front. 2 Strength per level.
Wizard - 10-75 Alignment. Now also do 2 magic up front for those people who think Wizards should be on the front lines.
Wraith - Promotes from Skeleton at level 12. 2 Attacks in the back row.
Wyrm - Increased Phys. Resist and Fire Resist to 50, lowered Cold to 30.
Wyvern - Now get 3 attacks in the front and back. 0-100 Alignment. 60 Phys and Fire, 25 Cold. 2 Int per level.
Zombie Dragon - Still use Undead Rings to promote. 2x Acid from the front, 3x Evilring from the back. Still uber tanks.
Sylph - Replaced with Vultan Class. Promotes from Eagleman at level 15, 55-100 Alignment. They are a more physical-oriented Hawkman class compared to the Ravenman's magic-focused. 3 attacks up front, 1 Gale in the back. 4/3/2, 50/42/45/41/40/40
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All of this is my opinion so take it with the required grains of salt.
A few things that come to my mind is that a lot of classes are completely invalidated by the special characters, which is fine in its own right but it's still kind of sad. I'll probably be reducing the stats on a few of them and boosting other classes to compensate.
I'm on board with boosting the generics, but I don't see any reason to nerf the special characters. Many of them are a hassle or difficult to get, why make the work have less of a return? Besides, if you're boosting normal classes, they'll be less uber because they're dealing with stronger opposition.
Along with that, the Witch blows. I am going to be fixing that and probably giving her a promotion, hopefully I can do that with the Nightmare editor. Samurai Masters will most likely be getting two Iainukis from the back because they had a hilariously pointless promotion.
Anything to improve the Witch is good. Buffing Samurai Masters seems good, too.
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I don't think I can save Octopi but I'll try.
Eight arms eight attacks!
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Bonus against female classes.
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Thoughts:
I would nuke CHA as a requirement entirely, ala OB64. It's one of the few things that game did that I really approved of.
Rebalancing issues:
I'd leave the special PC's alone for the reason Dune said.
Classes:
Make Golems-Stone Golem-Iron Golem promotable. I would either buff Golem HP or agility, not both. Probably agility, as it makes their offense and durability better while not lessening just how badly they get owned by weakness hitting things. Make Stone golems promote at L5, and Iron at L10.
Giants-Make them all hit the second tier classes at L10. (As it is, Fire/ice/titan is L8/10/15). I would also elimiate the alignment requirement here, so you just pick an element. Give the Ice/Fire giants the MT elemental attack, instead of the ST spell. Boosting Giant physical resistance is a good idea in general as well- monsters need to be tough to justify the two slots and no leadership trait.
Gryphon type- Remove petrification (it's useless), give Cocktrices a third attack.
Wyvern- Third attack upon promotion, make the fire breath skill MT.
Octopus- Boost agility. Otherwise, leave as is. They get FOUR attacks and are extremely difficult to kill in water; two of them with a cleric or muse make an excellent unit. You need to position them on a town or in water, but they are good enough that it doesn't need buffing. Lower promotion level to 10.
Hellhound- Lower promotion level to 10, raise elemental defenses sans holy, lower INT. Give Hellhounds the MT physical fire skill (1x) in the back, and hellhounds the fire skill (2x) in the back.
Dragons: Give every one three physicals from the front. Lower level requirements for dragons to level 5/10/15 instead of 7/15-17/23-24 respectively. Give Zombie Dragons Evil Ring in the front row (2x).
Ghosts/Skeleton- Let them promote at L10.
Weretigers/Wolves- Give them 2x life drain at night and 2x physicals at day. Give the the same stat growth day and night. You need a unique item or to get lucky with a neutral encounter to get them, so they should be good. Werewolves are still better on raw offense, but Weretigers are going to be extremely difficult to kill. Leave Werewolves as is.
Pumpkins- Make the Pumpkin+ storebought in Deneb's garden.
Devils: Give Demons 1x Meteor, and give Devils 2x Meteor. Make the promotion level 7/15 instead of 10/20 respectively.
Hawkmen class: Give Eagle/Ravenmen the MT version of their awful spells, let Ravenmen promote at L10 instead of L12. I'm fine otherwise with them, they give you low sky which is awesome.
Angels: Promote Angels to Cherbiums at L5 instead of L11, and to Seraphims at L10 instead of L22. Give Seraphims 3x Halos in the front row.
Faeries: Rename this to the AAA class. Let Faeries promote at L5/10 instead of L10/20. Replace Kiss with Halo, and replace Slap with Charm. Give Sylphs 3x attacks in the front row.
Nixies- Make Ice Storm/Blizzard 2x attacks a battle, lower promotion level to L10.
Witches- Raise strength growth from 1-3x to 3-5x a level, raise all resistances by 10 except physical (raise by 15), give them 3x attacks from the front row.
Clerics- Give entire class series 3x attacks from the front row, lower Monk's promotion level to 15. Let Clerics recruit Fairies and Angels.
Princess- Lower INT growth to 3-5 from 4-6, lower HP growth to 2-4 from 2-6, raise deployment cost by 1.5x.
Vampyre- Give them 3x attacks in the front and back.
Knight/Paladin: Raise INT growth by 2 points on average for Knights/Paladin, give Knights 2x Healing in the back row and Paladins 2x MT healing in the back row. Raise Knight/Paladin resists by 15, reduce Knight/Paladin STR by 1 per level.
Samurai: Lower all resistances by 10, raise STR by 1x per level. Give Samurai 3x physicals in the front and Samurai Masters 4x physicals and 2x Sonic Slice.
Mage: Make the alignment range for mage 0-35, raise promotion level to Mage to 12 from 10. Lower Sorcerer/Lich INT by one point a level, raise Lich's deployment cost by 1.5x (if possible), lower physical resist by 20.
Beast Master: Give them 3x attacks in the front and back row, lower promotion level to 10 from 12, raise agility growth by 1x per level. Let Beast tamers recruit more monsters.
Dragon tamers/masters: Give them 3x physicals in the front and 2x ice field in the back, increase all stat growth for both classes by 1x per level. Lower Dragon Master promotion level to 15 from 20, let them recruit final tier dragons, give them 2x MT ice spell in the back and 3x physicals in the front.
Ninja: Let them lead units. Lower Ninja Masters promotion level from 15 to 12.
Wild Men: Raise STR and INT growth by 1x per level for both classes. Raise Black Knight physical resist by 10, give them 1x Meteor in the back row, and give them 3x physicals in the front row. Lower promotion levels to 5/15 from 6/16.
Muse: Leave as is.
Doll Men: Change Enchanter alignment range to 50-100.
Odds and ends: Increase the selling price of the dream crown, undead ring, and undead staff to 200000 Goth. Increase the selling price of the stone of dragos to 50000 Goth.
This is mostly off the cuff. You're going to need to buff enemy formations some (Which is easily done) to compensate for the increased strength enemy formations. I didn't mess with recruiting much- I more just wanted to be able to easily access every class and monster type (Angels in particular are obnoxiously useless/hard to get till Yushis).
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Dune, you're right, a lot of them are a pain to collect. I will probably see what I can do about making some of the more annoying ones (Galf, Deneb) a bit more appealing.
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I'm not a huge OB fan, but I'd really like to see the bosses suck a lot less (lol Gares).
Maybe giving them more support if you can (maybe Gares could come with Liches and dragons or something).
Or just a straight up boost.
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Gares isn't terrible the first few times. The bigger problem with OB that it's hard to balance bosses against a normal playthrough, when you can get some evil blitz setups going later on. That's also ignoring that Tarot Cards exist.
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If there are any decent hacking documents available for SNES OB, I might be able to help you with some event editing if you want to say... make getting some of the special characters less annoying?
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http://finnshore.webs.com/ Has a good deal of them but I don't know if that helps you any.
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Is there a way to fix the number of tarot cards used in a battle to one?
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http://finnshore.webs.com/ Has a good deal of them but I don't know if that helps you any.
Is there anything out there more in-depth than that? I checked all of the documents there, but it's -very- basic stuff. Nothing on events at all. Not even a dialog map. I'm at work, so I haven't checked out the Nightmare editor yet, but I suspect that won't have anything deep enough to actually edit events.
I can handle some raw Hex editing, but I'd need a map to do anything exciting. I don't really have the time to go searching for OB docs myself, but if you stumble across something that looks promising, let me know.
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It seems that the Gamefaqs community is pretty popular in terms of this sort of thing so I'll ask over there.
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In order to make new classes, old ones have to be replaced. I can think of a lot of ones that can easily get junked (Faeries and their upgrades are worthless as hell) and a few others to make some room. It also seems that to change the promotion trees, you just have to hex edit the values. Djinn, I'd love to get your assistance with that one whenever you're able to grant it.
I found http://sennue.com/files/misc/ob-data.xls
Which seems to have a lot of various pointers and things though I don't think we've found anything pertaining to reputation or what have you, so that may be something we can't do much about.
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There's an awful lot of information in that spreadsheet, but it's really disorganized. And there's only one note on anything regarding Promotion Trees. Since I'm no expert on how OB promotion works, I don't really know what I'd need to look for to figure out how the promotion trees work, but based on the one note in the spreadsheet, you should open up the ROM in a hex editor and look at byte 04AB77 and the 101 bytes that follow to see if you see any logical patterns. Since there's exactly 101 bytes of this information, I suspect that it directly relates to fact that there's 101 PC unit types in the game.
I would look to see if each of those values relates to the class ID of the class it can promote to (in hexidecimal, of course). Since there's some kind of Table that follows it, I suspect there's a few more things that go into setting which classes are available, but without more information, I'm not sure what you'd need to change to build new Promotion Trees.
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Yeah, I found a Gamefaqs post that detailed how the promotion trees all work, so that should be a rather easy thing to do. The thing I'm concerned about is how to change the name of the classes... I assume all of that is just stored in the ROM data somewhere.
Putting this here for my own notes
"Recruit info starts with a list of pointers at 4ADC2, actual recruit lists begin at 4AE92 (which is technically the list for Fighter and therefore empty). Format is similar to promotion lists, although you can use any unit value (including boss types and named NPCs). It will freeze if you attempt to recruit a unique unit who you already have in your army, though. It doesn't seem to mind recruiting clones of your opinion leader, but I don't know what effect that has if you try taking them into battle."
"Ok, now here's the really awesome part. Promotion options by class are stored as 2 byte pointers starting at 04AF4C (4AE16 unheadered) with Fighter. These values correspond to a list of data starting at 04B016, consisting of a list of numbers (unit indexes) followed by a 00 to signify the end of the list. These go in straight order by class, and every one of the first 77 classes is represented with its own unique space. So for example you have 02 04 06 08 0D 11 13 00 01 03 00 01 02. The first 8 bytes make up the fighter's promotion list: Knight (02), Wild Man (04), Samurai (06), Ninja (08), Beast Man (0D), Doll Mage (11), Wizard (13), end of list (00). After that you have the knight's options: Fighter (01) or Paladin (03), end of list (00). Then paladin: down to Fighter (01) or Knight (02). It continues on with the promotion list for wild man, evil one, etc."
The class byte information for every special character and several bosses. It stopped making any sense to me after Galf, but there is more class information besides this (I think).
Ashe: 0001ECD4
Rauny: 0001ECD5
Aisha: 0001ECD6
Saradin: 0001ECD7
Lans: 0001ECD8
Gilbert (Might be Lyon...): 0001ECD9
Warren: 0001ECDA
Canopus: 0001ECDB
Yushis: 0001ECDC
Usar: 0001ECDD
Lyon (Might be Gilbert...): 0001ECDE
Kapella: 0001ECDF
Sirus: 0001ECE0
Deneb: 0001ECE1
Porkyus: 0001ECE2
Norn: 0001ECE3
Ares: 0001ECE4
Albelio: 0001ECE5
Mizel: 0001ECE6
Omicron: 0001ECE7
Prochon: 0001ECE8
Dragoon (?): 0001ECE9
Dragoon (?): 0001ECEA
Galf: 0001ECEB
More notes for myself:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588541-ogre-battle-the-march-of-the-black-queen/40090402
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588541-ogre-battle-the-march-of-the-black-queen/43853002
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Djinn, this is probably something you can assist me with:
I changed offset 4AE61, which is the start of the string for the Witch class. 00 (Begin of string) 0A (Amazon) 00 (End of Witch string)
I tried to insert 22 after the 0A to test it and the game crashes. I'm not sure if I need to modify the tree entirely so that it ends up pointing somewhere else or just change it so Witches can't be un-promoted (which isn't really what I want to happen at all)
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I need more information... like "What all does a Witch promote to/from?"
But my kneejerk guess after read both posts is that you can't just overwrite the "00" tag since that ends the string. You can overwrite the "0A" since that's a job ID. And honestly, I suspect that you -can- overwrite the "00" tag there with another job ID ... IF you change the byte after that to a "00" tag *though notably this means that the next job on the list will have fewer promotion options* (and it's possible that you'll need to change the pointer for whatever the next job is to the new address, but I don't have a full disassembly in front of me, so I can't be sure).
Changing text: I suspect that the Nightmare modules can do this? If not, I thought I saw text tbl files on that OB website from your earlier post. Try applying those in windHEX and see what you find.
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A witch only promotes down to an Amazon, which is why the string exists such as that. What I think I may have to do is change it so the Amazon promotes into a Witch but I use a different pointer for it, so instead of using the 17 hex value for Witch, I steal another class's tree and change it that way.
So basically as it stands now it works like this: Amazon can go to Witch, Witch can go back down to Amazon but nowhere else.
As for the text-changing, there's an offset in the rom with everything and it's easily changed. So that part is thankfully easy.
Again for my own notes, header vs. unheader is a difference of 200 in hex or 512 in dec for the locations.
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Note regarding text-changing: I'm not sure how an offset in the ROM makes this easy? I'm assuming this means you know where all the text is -located- on the ROM, but if you don't know how each byte translates to a character, I'm not sure that helps you much.
It's also worth noting that often times, the names of things (like Class names) will appear in more than one place in the ROM. For example, there might be a listing for "Witch" on the promotion screen, and there might be a listing for it on the "Witch promoted to Amazon" or whatever textbox that might pop up (Again, not familiar with OB apart from the one time I played half of it ages ago and the various DL stat topics about it). So you'll want to change all instances of those.
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That big infodump I posted to you had "Class names" and I can just modify those to be whatever I want, since the Hex Editor has both a hex and a text editor.
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What program are you using for hex editing?
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http://www.chmaas.handshake.de/delphi/freeware/xvi32/xvi32.htm
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It looks like a good Hex editor, but be aware that (most of the time) roman characters do not normally just appear in a raw ROM file when you open it with a Hex editor. If you've actually opened the ROM with this program and -seen- the in-game/menu text for OB at those addresses, then you're in luck. Otherwise, you're going to need tbl files designed to translate Hex into standard roman characters to read it.
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Yes, I changed it in the ROM and saw it in the game, changed to the correct thing.
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Can you make random encounters visible/change what they are on each map, Neph?
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I can't make them visible but I can change what they are and where they spawn.
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Does anyone have a strong feeling one way or another about letting Amazons promote into Dragoners? I'm not sure I can change the voices but I might be able to...
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Turn them into the female fighter class? That'd make sense. I half did that to witch on a lark. Said class would still need massive improvements across the board to not be putrid but yeah, workable.
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So here are a few ideas:
Vampires can recruit both Werewolves and Beastmen. I want to make Blood Kiss's storebought somewhere, any ideas?
I'm going to add Beastmen to the Neutral encounter list in Sirius' locale, along with Werewolves.
Faerie class is completely removed. I'm sure everyone is sad to hear it.
Faeries replaced with Sirens, a promote from Witch. Front Row attack will be Cerberus attack set (Fire/Charm) and back is 1 Random magic. Might make an Undead Ring promotion to something else here.
Deneb given unique Wicca class (Replaces Pixie). Front row attack will be... something, maybe 3x Stun, back row will be Endora's magic set. (Icecloud, Firewall, Thunder, Jihad, Phantom, Gale) I think I want to give her unique class the Princess leader effect.
I will most likely be importing almost all of Super's ideas, I really like the idea of Knights being able to heal in the back row, just gotta make sure it's useful without being overpowering.
I'm trying to think of other people who might deserve more unique classes (Galf comes to mind).
I also want to add a promotion for the Lord, but I don't think it's possible. What I may do is change the four lords so they're a lot more unique, in that one can focus on Strength, one on Agility, one on Int and... uh... I dunno what to do with the fourth.
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Knights still have shit INT at first. I doubt it'll be overpowered offhand. Of course, who knows how it'll work. The Samurai Class in particular could be nasty *in theory*, but man those defenses fail.
Deneb- That all sounds reasonable.
For Galf? Make him a custom Lich with the Princess bonus. It's the only way I can think to justify his cost.
In general, I'd say to both expand neutral recruits and recruiting from towns by giving characters more stuff to pick up earlier. Vampires- Make them recruitable in Pogrom. Blood Kiss is kind of blah as a storebought, and that way people who really want to recruit them can do so early. If you can make the neutral encounter item storebought and cheap, do that.
As far as custom classes go? Galf and Deneb are the ones that make the most sense.
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http://finnshore.webs.com/ram.sram-map.txt This is for Djinn, this file has Gilbert, Rauny and Norn's base Reputation meter in it! We may be able to modify the others... It's all mostly mumbo jumbo to me but maybe you can make some headway with it.
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r e c r u i t G i l b e r t a t 3 8 E 8 5 i n r o m m i n i m u m 5 0 r e p u t a t i o n
r e c r u i t N o r n a t 3 9 8 6 5 i n r o m m i n i m u m 6 0 r e p u t a t i o n
r e c r u i t R a u n y a t 3 9 C D 8 i n r o m m i n i m u m 6 5 r e p u t a t i o n
This is what I see regarding reputation. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have any other information about reputation here?
And the rest of the document is talking about SRAM addresses, which is basically temporary info (for Savestate-hacking essentially). You can't change any of the stuff at these addresses permanently with HEX-editing. (You could do it with a Gameshark-type program, though, but that's really cheap hacking.)
Now, just looking at the addresses there, though, this COULD be useful information. The SRAM stuff is all in the $70000-ish block, while these three addresses are notably in the $39000-ish area, which IIRC, is where most of the hacking you're already doing is happening, so I'm pretty sure this isn't Savestate data (though obviously it's related since CurrentReputation would be saved in SRAM).
I -think- if you poke around those addresses, you'll find the HEX values of 50, 60, and 65 ($32, $3C, $41) near there and you can edit those numbers to change the Reputation requirements for those 3 characters.
If you tell me a little more about how Reputation works in-game, I may be able to deduce more, though.
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Yeah, sorry for not being specific enough -- it only has those three.
If I go to the location of that in the Hex Editor: 38C85 (minus 200 for it being unheadered) the value of 32 is there, and I know that's 50 in decimal value, so you're correct.
Reputation in-game is a meter on the side that goes from 0 to 100. It affects almost all the recruiting in the game (and most of it requires it to be halfway or better).
I thought that maybe there'd be an equal value between the three addresses but there wasn't, although If I can figure out what exact reputation requirements are for the other characters I can probably find them somewhere near those addresses.
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The game is over a decade old and no one's documented numerical Reputation Requirements yet?
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I'd guess that 50/65/80 (Dragoons) would be the high end of the rep range needed for PC recruits, but not 100% on that one.
I'm not a huge OB fan, but I'd really like to see the bosses suck a lot less (lol Gares).
Maybe giving them more support if you can (maybe Gares could come with Liches and dragons or something).
Or just a straight up boost.
You have to be careful about raising boss HP *too* much. Supertank bosses would just encourage tarot spamming the living fuck out of them. Better support would help some, but by and large dangerous boss support you use a fool card on.
Other thoughts: I would definitely say making the starting pool of recruits more varied is a good thing. Having access to say a ninja and an angel in the common recruit pile would be neat and would encourage using different builds. If you're tweaking the opinion leader, I would strongly suggest more defensive than offensive boosts- after all, it's game over if he dies.
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$4F Lord (Phantom) - Increased Physical resistance to 50, Black Resistance to 50, Alignment to 50.
Increased Int per level to 5 and Agility to 3.
Replaced Phantom with Meteor, increased Front Row attacks to 3 and back row to 2.
Reasoning: This guy sucked. I want to make him the magical focus lord while still being able to be put in the front row if so desired.
$50 Lord (Good) - Increased Physical resistance to 50, Fire to 40, Cold to 40. Increased Strength per level to 4, agility to 4 and Intellect per level to 5.
Front Row attack is now 3x White-Strength Based attack and back is 2x Icecloud.
Reasoning: Guy was pretty good originally but having Banish was... odd. This one is a little better at fighting and has a base white attack as well for DEMON SLAYING.
$4E Lord (Sonic) - Back row attack now 2x Iainuki.
Strength per level 5, Agility 3, Intelligence 1. Physical Resistance now 65.
Reasoning: Physical Lord. No real reason to give him much more. Gave him another Iainuki, this way you need to choose between front row attacks or back row with backlash.
$51 Lord (Thunder)
Raised resistances to at least 50 across the board. Front row attack is now 2x Strength Gale and back row is 2x Thunder. Strength/Agility/Int is now 4 per level.
Reasoning: Having two AoE attacks Makes the Thunder Lord stand out a little more. Much more well-rounded.
Angel-
Increased Banish in back row to 2x.
Beastman- Increased agility per level from 2 to 3, int from 1 to 2.
Beast Master - 3x attack in front or back row. Increased agility per level to 4. Now promotes at level 10, 10-65 Alignment
Black Dragon - 3x Physical in front. Increased alignment max to 45.
Cerberus - Can promote at level 12, 0-100 alignment.
Cherubim - Banish in back row now 3x, now promotes at level 8, 50-100 Alignment.
Cleric - No change.
Cockatrice - 2x Gale up front and 3x Petrify in back, Increased stats per level to 4/5/2. Raised Weight type to Dragon level, should be easier to get High Sky with one.
Coffin - No change. TANK
Demon - 2x Nightmare in back replaced with 1x Meteor. Increased Str/Agi/Int per level to 4. Can now promote with up to 50 alignment.
Devil - 3x Strength Black attack up front, 2x Meteor in the back. Can now promote at 16. 5 Strength and 5 Int per level.
Doll Master - 3x Physical up front, 2x Acid in the Back. Now gains 3/3/4 for stats. Physical resistance is now 46. 50-100 Alignment.
Doll Mage - Strength is now 2 per level. Physical resistance now 40. Alignment now 35 to 75.
Dragon - Increased agility and int per level to 2.
Dragon Master - 3x Melee up front, 3x Magic in the back. Stat gains are 4/4/3, Resistances are all 55 except for White and Black which are 40. Now promotes at level 12, 0-100 Alignment.
Dragoner - Now promotes from Amazon starting at level 5. All resistances now 50 except for White and Black, which are 40. Melee up front, Magic in the back, 2x. Can promote from 0-100 Alignment.
Eagleman - Backrow Thunder replaced with MT Thunder. Strength and Int gains boosted to 3. Now promote at level 8. 45-100 Alignment.
Evil One - Now use Str-Inferno in back row. 3 attacks both places. Strength and Int gains now 4 per level. Now promote at level 14. 0-45 Alignment. Base cost now 1100
Faerie - Replaced with Siren class, promotion from Witch. 2x Fire or Charm up front (Cerberus) 1x All Magic in the back. 4 HP Per level, 5 Int per level. Promoted at level 10, 0-50 Alignment. Black resistance 55, White Resistance 35.
Ghost - No Change.
Gold Dragon - 4x Melee up front, 2x Icestorm in the back. 5 Strength, 4 Int. 60-100 Alignment. Level 15.
Golem - 1x Quake in the back row. 2 Agility per level.
Gryphon - 3 Strength per level. Physical resistance raised to 50. Increased Weight priority to Dragon-level, should be easier to get High Sky with one now.
Halloween - HP per level raised to 5, Strength to 4. Raised physical resistance to 70, lowered Fire Resistance to 30. Can now be recruited by Deneb by default.
Hawkman - Strength per level increased to 3, 2 attacks from the back.
Hellhound - No change.
Imp - Increased strength to 3 per level. Now get 2 Nightmares in the back.
Iron Golem - Now promoted from Rock Golems at level 16. 4/3/3. 3x Melee up front, 2x Quake in the back.
Knight - Now get 2x Healing in the back row. Knight now gets 2 Int per level.
Kraken - Strength increased to 5 per level, agility to 3. Physical resistance increased to 75. (they honestly aren't that bad, really)
Lich - 3x Magic in the front row, 2x Aoe Magic in the back. Base cost is 2500 and cost per level is 400. Fire resistance reduced to 45. Now promotes from Undead Staff from Mage.
Lycan - 2 Attacks in front and back. Now gains the same stats as Tigermen during the day.
Mage - Alignment 0-35, level increased to 11.
Mermaid - 3/3/3 for levels, Phys resistance up to 40. 2 Blizzard in the back row.
Monk - Now promoted at level 16. 55-100 Alignment.
Muse - 55-100 Alignment.
Ninja Master - 4x Attack from the front, 2x Aoe in the back. 0-50 Alignment.
Ninja - Can now lead units. (why couldn't they before?)
Nixie - 3x Melee in front, 2x Icestorm in back. 4/5/5 Now have 45 Phys resist.
Octopus - Strength increased to 3x per level.
Paladin - Now use Healing+ (Aoe) 2x in the back. 4 strength per level, 3 int per level. 60-100 Alignment.
Phantom - Promotes from Ghost at level 12
Pixie - Replaced with Wicca class (Unique to Deneb) Front row is Charm/Fire (Cerberus), back row is 2x Endora's Magic. Also grants 1 extra attack if made leader. 32 Physical Resistance, 60 everything else, 80 Black, 25 White.
Platinum Dragon - Renamed Bahamut. 4x Cold in the front. 12 HP per level, 4 agility, 5 int. Phys resistance to 70. Promotes at level 20. 55-100 Alignment.
Princess - No longer gives +1 attacks as a leader. Now has 2x Jihad up front, 2x Starlite in the back.
Pumpkin - 3/3/2 Phys resist to 50.
Ravenman - 3xMelee up front, 2x Firestorm in back. 3/4/3 50 Phys resist. Promotes at level 15 from Eagleman.
Red Dragon II - Renamed to Flarebrass. 4x Melee up front. Int to 4 per level. 25-65 alignment.
Red Dragon - 3 Melee up front. 25-65 Alignment.
Rock Golem - 1 Quake in the back. 2 Agility per level.
Salamand - Renamed Salamander (????). 4 Fires up front, Promotes at 20. 4 Agility, 5 Int. Phys to 70.
Samurai Master - 4 Strength per level, 3 agility. Phys resistance to 60. 2x Iainuki in the back. 55-100
Samurai - Phys resistance to 50. Promotes at level 6.
Seraphim - 4 Halos up front, 2 Jihads in the back. 3 Strength, 5 intellect. Promotes at level 16. 65-100 Alignment.
Shaman - 50-100 Alignment.
Silver Dragon - 3 Melee up front. 55-100 Alignment.
Skeleton - Promotes to Wraith!
Soldier - Unchanged.
Sorceror - Will be removed and replaced with another class.
Sylph - Likewise.
Tiamat - 3x Acid up front. Max Alignment is now 45.
Tigerman - 3x Lifesuck up front.
Valkyrie - Unchanged.
Vampyre - Renamed to Vampire, because seriously. 3 attacks in front and back. Might change the Charm to the Cerberus Fire/Charm versions.
Werewolves - Unchanged.
Wild Man - Renamed Berserker (I think that fits, if not we'll see). 2 attacks in the back row now, 0-55 alignment.
Witch - 3 SLAPs up front. 2 Strength per level.
Wizard - 10-75 Alignment.
Wraith - Promotes from Skeleton at level 12. 2 Attacks in the back row.
Wyrm - Increased Phys. Resist and Fire Resist to 50, lowered Cold to 30.
Wyvern - Now get 3 attacks in the front and back. 0-100 Alignment. 60 Phys and Fire, 25 Cold. 2 Int per level.
Zombie Dragon - Now promotes from Tiamat at level 22. 2x Acid from the front, 2x Evilring from the back. This may seem like a downgrade from Tiamat, but they tank damage much much better so it's a tradeoff between offense and defense.
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Just posting some thoughts:
Give monsters a third branch, i.e. Octopus->Kraken->Moby or something.
I could pretty easily take four of the classes used by Giants and give them to Octopi, Hellhounds, Wyrms and Gryphons.
I'd also like to add something else for Hawkmen... make them promote to Eaglemen then go from there to Ravenmen or something (Probably call it Vartan).
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Off the cuff reactions: Tone Dragoner/Dragon Master down. They're just notably better than every other class in the same timeframe right now (Knight, Wildmen, etc) due to killer resists. I'd make Dragon Master resists comparable to Knights/Samurai, so averaging 40ish or so across the board. Also, I'd give Werewolves the same stat growth in the day and night as well.
Is any general access class going to get the extra attack per battle skill, now that princess doesn't have it? If you want to make a third version of those monster classes, go for it. Each class should get an extra attack and improved resists (+5) across the board. Needs to be a late promotion like the final dragon class, though.
With you generally raising stats, I would caution against raising enemy levels much. You will slam into stat caps hard late in the game at L35-40.
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I can tone Dragoners down, but I like the idea of Dragon Masters being a bit better mainly due to them requiring an item to get to that promotion level. I COULD just let them promote through levels and then use the Stone to promote them to like, Dragon Lord or something...
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Oh, you need the stone of dragos to go from dragon tamer to master? never mind, in that case.
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Hey, I've been playing around with OB lately because of you. What effect do Dragoners/Dragon Masters have on Dragon-type units? It seems like a small damage boost, and hardly encourages using them together, which seems odd...
If possible, you could tone down the Dragoners and give them a better damage bonus for Dragon-type units, which could be interesting. Assuming that's how it works and that we can find how to edit that bonus.
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There is such a thing as Class Compatibility, which effects exactly what you're suggesting. I can change the compatibility, but I'm not sure I can change the actual effect... I think it caps at +4 to STR/INT/AGI, which, as you've said isn't a huge deal.
Well, it's a big deal at the beginning, I suppose.
EDIT: I believe there's a -second- way that determines the difference between Leaders and members works... I think it has something to do with the stat differences between the Leader and members of that unit, though I'm unsure. I THINK it means that if you have a class lead a unit with 0 Strength, 0 Agility and 200 Int, it will decrease the STR/AGI of the members of that group but give them a bonus of INT.
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Also posting palette information in case I change anything with that:
0E723: Battle palettes by class (2 bytes each). I've got no clue how palette data is stored.
bits 00-04 sub-palette 3 index
bits 05-09 sub-palette 2 index
bits 10-15 sub-palette 1 index
sub-palettes start at 25FAD, 10 bytes each (2 bytes each color, R5G5B5A1)
This is how the actual palette is assembled:
color 00 0x0000 full black (transparent) (0,0,0)
color 01 0x0001 almost full black (visible black) (8,0,0)
colors 02-06 defined by sub-palette 1
colors 07-11 defined by sub-palette 2
colors 12-14 defined by sub-palette 3
color 15 0x7FFF full white (248,248,248)
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First post updated to contain all class changes thus far.
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Sounds good to me. What else are you going to change? You are moving around enemies so they aren't so easily smashed. You are modifing stats and making some classes fail less, cool. What about smarter enemies? Or more waves or something? I do not know how these things work. What about new translations or different characters joining you?
*shrug*
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I'd rather not increase the number of waves because the game already gets pretty boring halfway through. What I can at least do is improve the quality of the enemies so they're a bit less bad.
As for translations... I'm not sure where that data is stored so I'm not sure there's anything I can do.
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First iteration of the patch is out. Names have not been changed yet due to some bugs I encountered but the units themselves should be up-to-date.
I also haven't changed Neutral encounters yet.
YOU MUST APPLY IT TO AN UNHEADERED ROM.
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http://www.mediafire.com/?01165qep23vtu5x This should be a link to the current patch, I've constructed it such that it can be used on a Headered or Unheadered version of the game.
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Michael Wilson is caving to pressure from the Headered ROM lobby. This is going to be felt at the polling booths. Richard Hawk for pres 2012 campaign is gaining on you.
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Just finished Sharom border up. Couple of notes:
Definitely increase the number of enemies in each map a little. Also, could other players check to see if they can get the gnomish nugget? I couldn't get it to trigger.
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Fixed a few bugs and uploaded a new patch.
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There is now an .ips for both Headered and Unheadered roms in the main topic.
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Just wanted to remind anyone interested to please give this a try and give me feedback!
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I can't get the patch to work, it tells me the ips file is corrupted/truncated.
In case it's a problem with my rom, I tried a couple of other Ogre Battle patches and managed to get them working but this one refuses to, for some reason.
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Hmm, let me see what I can do about it, I can just post a rom with it. Thanks for trying.
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More direct link later.
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Playing the Thunder Lord. Can't remember how to control Alignment/Charisma and stuff, it's been years since I last touched this game. Kind of leaving me low on Knights.
Holy crap at Lake Jeltennia. I'm not very good at this game but the Tigerman gave me a lot of problems with 3 Lifesucks and the center town gets flooded really quick and I lost it once which I hope doesn't tank my stats too much. The fact that the only two temples are REALLY far away means if you don't have a flyer you will probably have issues reviving dead guys (unless you stocked up on revives, which I didn't)
That's all for now.
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I forget if you can buy Sunbeams that early, but that should help a lot with the Tiger men.
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Stuff:
I completely messed up on recruiting Deneb I think, which is kind of annoying, because I spent an hour intentionally tanking my (extremely high) reputation only to misread the directions somehow and not get her. Oh well. Since there isn't a "Gameshark Deneb into army" code I can find I just decided to Gameshark my reputation back up to like 3/4 full.
What happened to Ice Giants? I can promote to Titans immediately at level 10 it seems.
Mage having no alignment requirements (that I can see of) to promote is so convenient, since they have a tendency to murder everything in sight and drop to 0.
My army is extremely lop-sided with way too many knight since they're the most common free recruits that come with storyline characters apparently. My most common set-up is something like
2-3 knights in front
1 Angel line/1 Gryphon/1 Valkyrie line in back (obviously not all three but a general mix)
I really do need to develop a powerhouse "evil" squad so I don't have to worry about tanking my powerful high alignment squads.
I really hate cockatrices. I seem to have the sort of terrible luck where the first dude to get petrified turns out to be my AOE damage dealer or something, making me lose the fight.
I think Wyrms need to promote into wyverns a tad bit faster. Gilbert was dead weight until then.
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If you want, there's a Gameshark code you can use to recruit anyone I'm pretty sure, just change the digits to Deneb's and recruit her that way.
Ice Giants do not exist anymore, they were used as an upgrade from the Siren class (the Witch promote)
I could see dropping Wyvern promote levels to 10.
The actual class changes are all in the first post, by the way.
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Giant changes aren't listed, I think.
I have a level 10 witch that can't promote because ironically her alignment is at 51. You need to actually kill people to lower alignment, right? I'm thinking that I have to downgrade to an Amazon and find a low level neutral to kill before switching back or something, right?
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Quick stuff:
The first stage against Gares still has a bunch of front row wizards IIRC.
Siren is apparently Low Sky. Could be intentional but I'm thinking this is probably a leftover from its base from the pixie unit.
I have a generic Hawk man at level 14 with exactly 50 ALI and it can't change into either Eagle or Raven man, unless I'm missing something...
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Sirens and Banshees are both Low Sky (it's sort of a joke about them riding brooms, kind of)
I... totally fucked up the Hawk Men, I forgot to have them promote correctly. I just now fixed it, here's a re-uploaded version.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8244840/OgreBattleNeph.smc
As for Giants, here are their updated stats:
Giants are unchanged, but you can find more of them earlier on.
Fire Giants get 4 Melee up front, 3 Fire Attacks in the back. 5 Strength per level, 1 int per level. 57 physical resist now, they also promote at level 8, 0-40 alignment.
Titans are magic-focused Giants, they get 3 melee up front and 2 int gales in the back. They get 3/3/5 (int) for stats. They promote at level 10, with 55-100 alignment.
There is that very small alignment area where you can't promote them but you can buy alignment pots from the first town, so... EDIT: No I didn't, I'm going to change that... hum dee dum.
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Bahamut only has 3 colds, not 4 like the patch says.
I haven't seen any Sirens available to be promoted to Banshees yet. I can't find them listed in the patch list either.
Also, I might not see this to the finish because it's getting kind of boring, though that's more of a limitation of the base game rather than this mod. We'll see how it goes.
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Faerie - Replaced with Siren class, promotion from Witch. 2x Fire or Charm up front (Cerberus) 1x All Magic in the back. 4 HP Per level, 5 Int per level. Promoted at level 10, 0-50 Alignment. Black resistance 55, White Resistance 35.
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Very quick round up. Now that Skyrim is out I got a feeling I'll probably forget about the game eventually.
I kind of prefer Ice Giants to be the one staying instead of Fire because of Snow movement but 4 clubs is nice. Never really got to use Titan. Probably outclassed by Dragons if one is willing to train those.
Ravenmen > Vultan as far as I'm concerned. Having 1 more melee attack doesn't beat having one more "Hit-all" attack.
Where are the stats for banshees? Can't find it on the front page.
Witches kind of have a hard time lowering their alignment, seeing as how they can't kill anything. Once you do manage to promote them though, they're basically palette-swapped Mages.
Well, this isn't a "balance" issue but one thing I got to say is that a lot of classes feel kind of samey. I mean, yeah, Princess was overpowered with her "give everyone +1 attack" and Witches suck in the original, but that sort of thing kind of gave the game character since there's not much in the game system for differentiation.
Currently there's really no noticeable difference to me on whether you're using Ravenmans, Liches, Sirens or Mages as your back row "hit-everyone" dude and most front-line slashy guys feel the same because there isn't any stand-out best or worst class anymore. So, great for balance I guess but I don't know whether that makes things actually interesting. Maybe I should have used the vampire/werewolf/tigerman line more? Those seem to have interesting changes but eh.