Author Topic: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one  (Read 553 times)

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1357
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« on: December 20, 2023, 07:02:44 AM »
We had a topic a week or so ago where Djinn was musing about a board game or table top game in the shape of the DL. The discussion got pretty interesting, some neat ideas were mentioned, so now I'm just musing more on the idea and thought, "why not make a topic about it". So here it is (one of the mods can put this somewhere else if it is more fitting). What this topic aims to do is:

- Flesh out more of the idea of what a proverbial DL Board / Tabletop / Card Game might look like
- Balancing issues, pitfalls, things to watch for
- Game Mechanics and Rules

I'll basic kind of continue where I left off. I think this idea is probably best done as a Card game, maybe similar or taking its shell from Overpower. Some of you might remember this game - but to make a long story short to get everyone to pace - form a team of heroes, each with their own stats and abilities. Then the goal is to complete a certain number of missions OR to knock out your opponent's team. This has some obvious DL undertones to it. I think we can make do without the mission aspect and just focus on the KOing the other person's team - but if someone else has a good idea on how to incorporate these, I'm game.

The DL form of this which I proposed was to use a similar basis. Basically, take any character and give them stats in Physical, Magical and Agility scores along with a HP value. Hero / Villain cards can then have a passive ability which can create further synergy or reflect more about the character in question if their unique traits can't be easily reflected. Cards are divided into these categories:

Character Cards -
These are kind of each PC or Boss' vital stats and are always taken out of a deck and placed into the play area, representing one of the characters you are using for your team. As noted, this card shows the PC's stats, along with any notable passive ability belonging to the character.  Using our example in chat, let's use Tidus for a shell. He might have Physical/Magical/Agility scores of 5/2/7, which feels pretty reflective of his in-game stats. We then give him a HP value...maybe something like 18 (assuming 20 HP is the average). One of the concerns I had was reflecting Turn speed is very hard or complex I think for most people, but one of Tidus' noticeable strengths is his ability to Double Turn. So I think an adequate substitute might be to give him a Passive ability like: Spry Striker - Whenever Tidus plays an attack card, you may play a 2nd attack card of lesser value. That way, it reflects Tidus' ability to strike quickly. If someone has a good way to map CTB like system into a card game (or table top game) form without over complicating, this is your time to shine.

Ability Cards -
So these Cards would reflect a character's ability or skill set. The DL uniqueness bit essentially. Again using Tidus, these Cards might be something "Haste", "Slow","Quick Hit", "Spiral Cut", "Blitz Ace", etc. You can modify each ability as you see fit to do damage, play extra cards, disrupt an opponent etc. The key here is that because these cards are specific to Tidus, you need Tidus alive in order to play them. So if he gets knocked out, then all of his ability cards become dead cards. This way you can give Abilities powerful flavor tools and keeping it somewhat in check. That was the basic idea in Overpower anyway. I think it makes sense on a deck building perspective and probably a game play one too. One of other cool thing is that in a Card game format, you can also design cards around a character's traits, personality or story beats. So for Tidus, you could also create a card called "Enthusiasm" or "I hate you, Dad" and make them have differing effects (although the latter is probably harder)

Equipment Cards -
Djinn mentioned he liked PCs having weapons/armors reflective of their in-game stuff. So here, I think you could create cards similar to Ability Cards in that they can only be used by a character, but also make this a separate class of cards. The way they would function is that it would be similar to enchanting a creature in magic. Since enchant creatures have a natural weakness, you'd probably need to make these pretty strong to compensate. For Tidus, an example might be a card called something like, "Caladbolg - Tidus Unique Weapon. When this weapon is equipped, Tidus can no longer be dealt physical damage. Damage dealt by Tidus decreases by 1 for every 4 damage". That would be pretty reflective of the 2 unique properties of the weapon in-game. Magic mentioned giving cards certain factions or tags, so that people with the same tags can all use something similarly classed. So for this, you would Class Tidus maybe with the tags, "Fighter", "Sword", "Speedster". Caladbolg would then certainly be classed as "Sword". My main train of thought was to make these unique to the character because I think weapons if they are unique enough to be part of a character's DL default, probably does something that another character's doesn't. Not always, but we want to make people feel different.

Common Cards -
To prevent a series of dead draws, I think it is important to include something like a Common Card pool that anyone would use. Basic Physical and Magic attacks for example, should be able to be utilized by any character. In Overpower, the way this worked was each character's grid reflected the maximum amount of power they could use of a particular attack type. I think for our little thought experiment, this makes sense too. So in our sample, Tidus could use physical cards up to 5 power. These would just be generic cards (don't need unique names here) so any other character with 5 or higher physical stat could also use it. You can then also add Items to this notion, although just like in-games, I think Items need to be carefully designed and balanced in this case.

Healing and Revival -
This is tricky. I think healing and revival are probably not great ideas on paper because they prolong a game and can make KOing an opponent's character a chore. However, flip side, these are basic common things in RPGs. I think the way around these is to make it such that there needs to be some sort of drawback or cost so they a) can't be spammed and b) puts you at a momentum disadvantage when using it. One example I had of this is for a character like Elie. One of Elie's strengths in her game is her S-Craft Aura Rain, which can be deployed at anytime and full restore the entire team. As strange as it might be, I think if you really wanted, you could implement something similar. Maybe make it something like, "Aura Rain - Play this at anytime, including during your opponent's turn. Discard 3 cards from your hand. Then revive all characters on your team and restore their HP to full. Elie loses her next turn". This would be pretty reflective of the ability in-game, requiring a significant CP cost and having noticeable recovery lag. I dunno if "full revive" makes it fun to play against though. CERTAINLY, in RPGs, enemies reviving each other is a huge pain in the rear.

Formations and Positioning -
Difficult to implement, but I think worth it to add a strategic element to the game. I imagine the board space being like Front/Mid/Back for each player and you can put characters into each lane. You have to take out characters in the front before being able to attack those in the back - which is pretty rudimentary. How do you give those in the Front and Mid an advantage? I haven't thought of that yet. But certainly, there should be something so you aren't just putting 1 in the Front and 3 in the back to concentrate damage on one person.

Status Conditions -
I know Djinn was excited to add a bunch of status just like characters can in the DL. However, I'm more reserved and realistic. I think having status that rips turns away from people is pretty hard to balance around. Turn economy is real, and having something like Arnaud's Sleep be 50% on multiple targets (which it can be in-game) would be really devastating in this format. So instead, I think you need work arounds. Having multiple characters does mitigate some of the "lose turn" effects, but I'm not sure it does enough to outright justify them without some additional drawback. Certain status such as Poison and Blind though are easy enough to implement.
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6938
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2023, 08:05:37 AM »
One idea that instantly comes to mind to avoid the "dead card" problem and also to cut down on the number of Common Cards needed, is to make most Equips and a good chunk of Abilities have a "base effect" and a Character-specific effect.

So Caladbolg could be like:
"Sword" - equippable by any units that can use Swords
Physical offense + 4
Agility +1
Unique Effect: Tidus-only, additional Phys Off+1 and Agi+2, grants ability to play a second Attack card of lesser value after the first every turn.

This adds a bit of flavorful fun in allowing things like other swordsmen getting to use their cohorts' signature weapons, even if functionally they just become stat-sticks. It maintains the uniqueness factor for the original user too. But come on, wouldn't it be fun to see Chrono whip out the Buster Sword?

Not sure if it works as easily for Skills/Abilities. Might need much more granular requirement tags. Or maybe it's okay to just have a big pool of Common Skills? But having a big pool of both Common Skills AND Common Equips feels like it's straying too far from what makes the DL setting fun.

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1357
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2023, 08:11:24 PM »
Fundamentally, a dead card by itself isn't a problem. In fact, in lots of card games, certain cards are only good in specific situations or you have the accompanying combo piece to play the win con out. You probably want that as a risk. If every card were usable, I think you'd run into the issue where there is no uniqueness. I think if you're trying to create something where individual characters can shine through, it is probably the most eloquent way of doing it. Just, you don't want every card to be unique - which is where the deck building comes in. How many commons vs. unique you should have and what unique *should* you carry. As with most things, to achieve good balance, you need to have things in moderation.

That being said, I actually wouldn't be opposed to things like the Caladbolg being semi unique like that because upon further reflection, weapon uniqueness should probably be reserved specifically for characters that don't have much else. I'm mainly looking at random Fire Emblem units which you might want to adopt into this format. For example, how are you going to make Eliwood unique? It's not like FE7 had skills or Tier 3 super skills like in RD. Eliwood is just pretty boring fundamentally even in terms of stat build. BUT, if you give him two custom weapon cards for example that only he can use? Now we're cooking with gas. You could also just slap a Passive on him that lets him use any sword card, which would give you that effect where another PC can use a character's signature item.
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1357
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2023, 05:48:50 AM »
So Djinn was asking if we could do a character concept and try to fully flesh out a working character. I've had some ideas which then leads to another point I wanted to make which is Themes. In a lot of card games, expansions and new cards in the same set would often play on a certain idea and stretch that across it's releases. The best example of this is Magic - where the color wheel has been in place for the longest time and new cards released might have a new mechanic or new ideas but they would always try to tie back to a color's particular strength. Should something like this be in our theoretical DL game? I think you could get away with it based on Series by series outlook. This leads into fleshing out characters and a leading example for me, which is Wild ARMS.

As all of you know, Wild ARMS often operates with a Force meter mechanic, which lets you build it and then use it for more options / diverse / powerful abilities. I think we can do something similar with our first set of concept characters. I'm going to use Virginia, Jet, Gallows and Clive as a 1st release.

VIRGINIA -
Virginia is often cited as Game best PC in her game due to a combo of her stat spread, unique achievements and utility. Let's try to emulate that a bit:

Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 16 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 2
Magical: 4
Agility: 7

Passive abilities - None

I think this set up is pretty self explanatory. Emulates a lot of Virginia's strengths in game. Her MAG score is actually a fair bit lower than Gallows so we're sticking with a 4. Her HP is also a bit lower as she has the lowest HP in her game. So that's our starting set up. What other cards should we add to Virginia to reflect her as unit?

Ability Cards
Mystic - Discard a Card from the Hand. The next Item Card you play on Virginia's Turn effects all targets in a row.
Quick Draw - Add +1 Agility damage to your next attack card. You may play this card at any time.
Green Thumb - The next Item Card you play returns to your hand after play.
Gatling Burst - +2 Physical. For Every additional card you Discard from your hand, do an additional +2 damage.
Evasive - You may play this card at any time if Virginia would take physical damage. Flip a coin. On Heads, ignore the damage and effects against Virginia and draw a card. 
Sense of Justice - If your opponent's hand size is currently larger than your own, search your deck for another Virginia card and add it to your hand.
Drifter Legend - Sustained effect. When a character on your side KOs an opponent's character, draw 2 cards

Equipment Cards
Unique Weapon: Bantorain / Rapier EZ 92 - When Virginia makes a physical attack, you may discard a card to repeat the attack. If you do, add a counter to this card. You may remove the counters if Virginia skips her turn. At 6 Counters - Disable this card.

These cards I think play to Virginia's flavor, which lets her operate as a battery, gathering more cards and then discarding them for bonus effects. This is very symmetrical to how WA3 FP works where as FP is consumed, your character becomes weaker. Likewise, as you discard and lose cards, you lose card advantage, so best make your card plays count. Her last card with "sustained" would stay on the board until it is overwritten, cancelled or otherwise disrupted. I think it adds flavor here in that as the WA3 chars take out more people, their fame rises and they get rewards in the form of card draws. +2 seems reasonable but could be very unbalanced just because card advantage is a thing.

So following from that, let's look at my proposed concept for one of her teammates. In this case, let's go with Clive since he's a little easier to think about.

CLIVE -

Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 22 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 7
Magical: 4
Agility: 1

Passive abilities - None

Yep. Like Virginia, I think this reflects Clive's stats pretty well to in-game. You could mirror his speed to Virginia's physical prowess but man, have you played WA3 recently and seen how bad Clive's speed is?

Ability Cards
Lock On - Discard a Card from your hand. The next Physical attack card played by Clive cannot be reduced or nullified.
Take Aim - Mark a target character. At the end of his/her next turn, Clive performs a free attack action equal to his Physical strength +2
Ammo Clip - The next Physical Attack Card you play returns to your hand after play.
Finest Arts - Cannot be used in conjunction with a Weapon. Cannot target farther than one row. Deals 2 physical damage + 2 additional damage for each card discarded. When 5 cards are discarded, the last hit does 20 damage.
Grappling Hook - Move Clive to any Row OR Moves an opponent to the front row. 
Experienced Veteran - Play this card in response to an opponent's face down card. Destroy it instead.
Logical Analysis - Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. You may re-order as you please. 

Equipment Cards
Unique Weapon: Gungnir HAG35 - Clive can attack any row. When you make a physical attack, add a counter to this card. You may remove the counters if Clive skips his turn. At 2 Counters - Disable this card.

Clive takes on his role as a sniper, physical expert and opts for OHKO damage. Since he has a rifle, let's give him something the game didn't and install some range. Doing so makes Clive quite a threat since he can now attack squishies in the back. To compensate, I gave the weapon only 1 charges (just like in-game!) and it is incompatible with one his cards. Just like Virginia, Clive appreciates having extra cards that you can burn so he can get added effects of his abilities. Unlike Virginia, he has issues generating draws, so its up to his capable leader of getting more fuel for him. Gallows will work similarly.

<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1357
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2023, 04:57:43 AM »
So BOSSES. Yes, you can and should add villains to make things more DLesque. The question is, how do you translate them? The basic answer - you scale them like you would a dueller in the DL and see if makes sense. You probably have to be more creative because sometimes bosses are just very one dimensional and stuck in their ways, but you can make it work. What I want to show is that this theory card game has a lot of design space. I don't promise it to be balanced, but you can probably do a good translation and then roll it back to see if things are too broken or what not.

For this, I'm going to look at everyone's favourite set of bosses - WA4 BOSSES. Yep Max Agility for all of them right? Well, again, scale it to what makes sense. Like yeah, I'd probably give the true speedsters like Hugo and Belial an 8, but Jeremy's only 178% or something on forms 2 and 3. Should he get an 8? Probably not. So scale that down with other bosses in his game. That said, some concepts:

JEREMY NON -
Everyone's favorite OHKO punching bag. Jeremy's an interesting case cause making him really powerful but also really frail at the same time makes sense.

Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 10 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 6
Magical: 2
Agility: 6

Passive abilities - Inertia Canceller: Whenever Jeremy performs a physical attack, you may play more than one of the same copy, up to a maximum of 3. If you choose not to utilize this ability when it is possible, you may draw a card.

10 HP means anyone with an attack rating of any sort that is an 8 will pretty much 2HKO him...just like in game! And in some cases, you can probably OHKO him if you catch him at an inopportune moment. Flip side, Jeremy gets a turn, he will do a lot of damage - probably killing someone, especially the frail in one go. Just like in game!

Ability Cards
Vulcan Missile - +1 Physical damage. Target any character on any row.
Wild Savate - +1 Agility damage. If this attack is successful, subsequent attacks made by Jeremy on the same turn cannot be reduced.
Energy Net - Play this into an opponent's targeted lane. At the end of Jeremy's next turn, characters standing in this lane become Disabled (cannot attack or defend)
Full Auto - +4 Physical damage. Cannot be played multiple times in one turn.
Loose Cannon - Sustained Effect - During Inertia Canceller, one card played is equal to 2 attacks of the same kind. Jeremy must always target the weakest enemy if possible.
Insubordination - Jeremy cannot be moved until the start of his next turn.

Equipment Cards
None - I am not aware of Jeremy having notable weapons.

So yeah Jeremy is a complete glass cannon. His Sustained effect is important since it reduces the number of cards you need to play to reach maximum number of attacks. But it has an added drawback where you lose the ability to target. This feels very in-tune to his character where he just does whatever. I also gave him a card called "Insubordination" which I think is themetically fitting but also has strategic value so Jeremy can't be pulled out from behind a teammate for example and then killed quickly.

Another fun example of this basically being a blank slate (so I encourage you dear reader to drop your ideas) - GAWN

GAWN BRAWDIA
Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 24 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 6
Magical: 4
Agility: 4

Passive abilities - Trump Card - If all of Gawn's allies are KO'd, you may search your deck for Fragrach and Answerer and put it into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterwards.

Gawn looks kinda average! What gives? Well, read on to see how I'm going to change him. I made his stats a bit more average because he needs to be able to stay alive for as long as possible, so I worry about giving him lopsided stats. Also, he may actually be sorta broke in this iteration. But hey.

Ability Cards
Cowardice - If an attack targets Gawn, you may play this to redirect the attack to another character in the same row.
Irresponsible - When you play this card, exile a card of your choice, placing it face down behind Gawn. Return the cards to your hand when Gawn equips Fragrach and Answerer
A Journey with no Destination - You may take your discard pile and reshuffle it into your deck
Mooch - Play this any time an ally receives a healing effect. Gawn recovers HP equal to the original target
Bullet Barrage - Can only be played when Fragrach and Answerer are equipped. Inflict damage to all enemies equal to their current HP/2
Perfect Shot - Can only be played when Fragrach and Answerer are equipped. +5 damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or nullified.
"And with this single, final shot...!" - Your next attack does not remove any counters off Fragrach and Answerer. If only one counter remains, this card becomes an instant KO.

Equipment Cards
Unique Weapon: Fragrach & Answerer - Increase all of Gawn's attribute to 8. Damage can no longer be inflicted on Gawn. Instead, put counters on this card equal to Gawn's Current HP/2. Whenever an attack or effect would target Gawn, it is cancelled and one counter is removed from this card. Whenever Gawn makes an attack, two counters are removed from this card. When there are no longer any counters on this card, Gawn is defeated.

Gawn's a pretty unique boss so his translation is pretty unique too. He's basically the last minute hero/savior/Dark Phoenix-esque character where if you let him power up, he will probably tear you a new one if he hasn't already sustained some damage. You defeat him the exact same way as you do in-game, so you just need to outlast him. However, his attacks scale greatly and his attack cards put on a ton of pressure, so this might not be as easy as it looks!

HUGO HEWITT
Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 12 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 5
Magical: 5
Agility: 8

Passive abilities - System Chronos - If there is an empty row adjacent to Hugo when he is targeted by an attack, Move Hugo into that row. Target attack is nullifed unless it is capable of targeting all allies.

High stats! Badass ability like in-game! The catch? Bad HP and Low number of Ability cards. Hugo also doesn't do much else other than wack things I'm afraid. Luckily, he's pretty good at it.

Ability Cards
Magic Bow Gandiva - +3 Magic Attack. When played, Hugo can target any row.
Double Strike - Gan & Diva - Agility Attack. When you play this card, you may choose to discard another card. If you do so, this attack cannot be nullified
"Hmph...Amateurs" - You may play this whenever System Chronos triggers. If you do, Hugo's next attack does +2 damage
Perpetual Motion - Sustained Effect. Attacks that Immobilize do not effect Hugo. Whenever Hugo takes damage, discard this card from play.

Equipment Cards
None - Hugo's weapon is not memorable (I had to look it up)

Pretty straightforward translation. Hugo is a pain to take down and has a lot of damage. You might be wondering how to kill him. Well, System Chronos here doesn't trigger if another ally is in the same row. So while he can't be moved, using Movement and Positioning attacks can force him into a bad position where he is forced to take damage. And while his Sustained isn't in play, you can Immobilize him (unlike in-game) and make him a sitting duck. Gotta be quick about it though or he'll do lots of damage quick.


ENIL AIDEM
Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 15 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 2
Magical: 5
Agility: 4

Passive abilities - Materialize Fear - At the start Enil's turn, choose an enemy target. If your opponent has cards belonging to that character, take one randomly from them, then place it face down in your front row. Treat this card as a Copy of that character.

Oh hey, an opportunity to make Enil not suck. I'll take it and run with it. Let's see what we can do.

Ability Cards
Deception - If a Copy is currently on the field, damage done to Enil is instead done to the Copy instead.
Trepidation - Copied characters cannot draw any cards until the start of Enil's next turn.
Your deepest fears - Magic Attack +1. Generate a Copy of the targeted character, even if your opponent has none of his/her cards
When one fights monsters... - Sustained Effect - Whenever an opponent damages a Copy, the corresponding character takes damage equal 1/2 of what was inflicted. If no Copies are on the field, discard this effect.
To the Abyss - Both players discard their hand, then draw 4 cards.
Doppelganger - For the current turn, you may play cards from your opponent's Discard pool as if they were in your hand.

Equipment Cards
None - lol what weapon

So Enil sucks on stats - this is pretty much true to in-game. However, with our thought experiment, I obviously gave her something significantly stronger since playing an Enil equivalent 1 for 1 would be pretty awful. Here, she's kept her signature ability as Passive, but I gave her some synergy between the Copied characters as well as her lore. She's supposed to be a bad ass Brionac Officer like the others, so hopefully, this reflects it somewhat.


BALGAINE ALES
Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 20 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 8
Magical: 1
Agility: 3

Passive abilities - Baron of Gore - Ignore all Magical effects that target Balgaine.

CHAINSAW ROCKETMAN at least has an easy passive ability to translate. I'll take what I can get.

Ability Cards
Nidhogg: Straight - +5 Physical Damage. You must have 3 Cards in hand to play this card. Attacks all enemies in the closest row
Nidhogg: Full Crescent - +3 Physical Damage. You must have 5 cards in hand to play this card. Attacks all enemies.
Breakthrough - Physical Attack. Destroy a non-unique piece of equipment, currently equipped on target.
Mayhem - Discard all Sustained Effects currently in play.
"That's right. Bring it on!" - Sustained Effect. Both players draw an extra card at the start of every turn. For every Balgaine card drawn, increase his next attack by 1.

Equipment Cards
Anti-Tank Chainsaw Nidhogg - When you play an attack card, you may choose to delay its effect until Balgaine's next turn. If you do, deal double damage.

Balgaine has a ton of physical damage, but without his Chainsaw, it just deals 2HKO damage. Survivable. Once he has his Chainsaw though, look out. Delay the attack until the next turn and if you can't find a way to stop it, he will wreck face. Pretty close to in-game outside of being able to kite him, but hey. Also giving him weapon and situation breaking since he likes fair fights. His own sustain basically encourages both sides to kill each other faster, but also lets Balgaine play his special ability attacks more easily.


TONY (MAN)
Power Grid (Assuming 8 is the max):
HP: 16 (Assuming 20 is average)
Physical: 4
Magical: 2
Agility: 6

Passive abilities - Demoted - Whenever Tony takes damage, discard all Equipment cards currently equipped back into your deck.

Yes, let's take the joke boss and see if we can him less of a joke. Why am I giving him a negative passive? Well, it expands other cards we can make. Also it is suitably fitting and fits with what I want to do with our resident warmonger.

Ability Cards
Combat Knife - If one Gear Part is equipped, then Physical Attack +1. Pushes target back 1 row if able.
Reinforced Shield - If one Gear Part is equipped, then Nullify the next attack against Tony or his allies
Micro Missiles: If two Gear Parts are equipped, then Physical Attack +1. Attacks all enemies.
Rocket Launcher: If two Gear Parts are equipped. Physical Attack +3. Attacks an enemy from any row.
Anti-Magic Sphere: Sustained Effect. This card has no effect until Three Gear Parts are Equipped. Magic attacks cannot be used until Tony is defeated.
"Looks like you need some corporal punishment!" - Search your deck for Land Gear Parts. Draw up to 3 cards, based on how many Tony Cards are in your hand. 
"Why can't I beat a bunch of kids?!" - When you play this card, place it face down under Tony. When Tony is defeated, draw 2 cards for every copy of this card played.

Equipment Cards
Unique Equipment: Land Gear Parts - No base effect. Equipping more cards unlocks bonus effects on Tony's Cards

Yeah, I don't think Tony is powerful, but he is thematic. Load up this Gear with more stuff like if he is promoted, then he gets more stuff! When you hit him, he gets demoted and loses stuff. His cards without his parts basically are vanilla cards so they are pretty weak, but they at least do interesting stuff once you have something equipped.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2023, 06:56:56 AM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6938
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2023, 06:50:51 AM »
Really digging these unit concepts!

I posted these in chat, but for easy reference, here's some concepts for Common Skill Cards to give a baseline of how to scale Characters' unique skills.

First off, Magic suggested that all units could access an 'Innate attack' where they get a Range-1 basic damage skill based on Half of their Stat of choice. Tide suggested that passing a turn would allow for an extra draw, so it's not a very powerful option, but it could be nice to prevent long strings of dead turns.

For actual Common Skill Cards, the most basic ones with no Requirements would start at probably Stat-1 and build up according to Tide's idea for tiered Commons.

e.g.
Fight 1
Rng 1. Deals PHY-1 Damage.
Fight 2
Rng 1. Deals PHY Damage.
Fight 3
Rng 1. Deals PHY+1 Damage.

Rush 1/2/3
Rng 1/1/2. Deals AGI-1/AGI/AGI Damage.

Blast 1/2/3
Rng 2/2/2. Deals MAG-2/MAG-1/MAG Damage.

With some more powerful Common Skills that have actual Requirements, like Sword or Fire.

Sword Slice 1/2/3
Rng 1/1/1. Deals PHY+2/3/4 Damage. Require: Sword.
Lance Thrust
Rng 1/2/2. Deals PHY+2/2/3 Damage. Require: Spear.

And some slightly less boring Common Skills that have minor effects and low-end damage:

Double Sword Swing
Require: Sword
Rng 1.  Deals PHY+2 Damage.
Extra: Discard 1 Card; play one more skill that has "Require: Sword" except Double Sword Swing.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6938
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2023, 03:21:03 AM »
Organizing some thoughts on the rules:

Play Board: The board consists of each individual Player's Battlefield, Deck, Discard Pile, and 4 HP piles each corresponding to one of their units.

Deck: Main pile of cards to draw from.
Discard Pile: Pile where most cards go upon being spent or losing their HP. Many effects require Discarding one or more cards from the user's Hand to activate.
HP Piles: 4 small piles of face-down cards that act as a Unit's HP. These are lost when a Unit is successfully attacked. When an HP card is lost, it is added to the target Player's hand. If a card has a Counter effect, it can be immediately played once the damage has been resolved. If the Counter effect requires a specific Unit to be on the Field, it cannot be used if the damage caused that Unit to be Discarded.

Battlefield: A 3-row playing field where a Player's Units are placed in formation. Players may put Units in any Row they choose at the start of the game. Players may use a Unit's turn to change their Row one space in either direction. Some Effects may increase this.

Front/Middle/Back Rows: Most Skills are Range 1 and thus can only be used by Attackers in the Front Row on Defenders in their corresponding Front Row. A Range of 2 would allow an attack from the Middle Row upon the Front Row or from the Front Row on the opposing Front OR Middle Row (unless the Skill states otherwise). Maximum Range is 5 and would allow attacking anywhere on the Field from the Back Row. If no Units are in a specific row, that Row is ignored for Range calculations.


Game Flow:
Setup: Players place their 4 chosen Units in their Battlefield in any formation they'd like. Their Decks are shuffled and each Unit's corresponding number of HP cards are drawn and placed face-down in each of their HP Piles.
Each Player Starts with 7 Cards in their Hand. (Tentative)

Turn Order: Players decide what order Units will act by comparing their AGI values. The higher AGI values act first in the Turn Order. AGI Tiebreaks are decided by both players drawing the top card of their Deck and comparing which one has the highest of any Stat value. The player with the higher-value card gets to choose which of the Tied Units acts first in the Turn Order. The next player gets to choose which of any further Tied Units get to act next in the Turn Order, with players alternating until there are no more Ties. Effects that change AGI values will not effect Turn Order until the beginning of the next round (when the first-acting Unit is about to take their turn). If this causes another Tie, the newly-accelerated Unit acts First in their Turn Order bracket.

Actions are then performed based on which Unit is next in the Turn Order.
When a Unit's Turn begins, Players Draw 1 card from their Deck and may Add Equipment to the Unit freely.
Each Unit has one Action by default, where they can: Use a Skill Card, use their 'Innate Attack', or Move in their formation one Row forward or back. Players may Pass this Action and Draw 1 Card instead.
Once the Unit has finished their Action, the next Unit in the Turn Order begins. When all Units in the Turn Order have acted, a new Round begins and any Turn Order changes are calculated.
Play continues until all Units on one Player's team are defeated. If a Player's Deck is empty, they maybe shuffle their Discard Pile (minus any defeated Unit cards) into their new Deck. (Tentative)


Card Types: Units, Skills, Equipment. (Items and Summons are types of Skill Cards.)

Common / Unique / Semi-Unique: Common Skills and Equips can be used by any Unit with the correct Tags. True Unique Cards are Rare and Powerful and can only be used by specific Named Units. Semi-Unique Cards can be used by any Unit with the correct Tags, but they have a special Unique Effect that can only be used by the Named Unit.

Skill Card Types: Attack Skills, Healing Skills, Enhancement Skills (Enhancements are functionally Tag-bypassing Equipment)

Enhancements/Equipment: Persistent Increases to stats will be printed on the left-hand side of the Card so that it can be easily placed under and alongside the Equipped Unit
Ailments: Persistent Status Ailments will have their Effect printed on the bottom of the Card that inflicts it so it can be easily viewed from under the target Unit.

Tags: Skill/Equip Requirements AND Elemental types/Species weakness
Units have 3 to 6 Tags, Common/Semi-Unique Skills & Equips have 1 or 2 Tag Requirements. Some Effects interact with Tags to reduce/increase Offense or avoid secondary effects.


Stats:
Max HP is 8, with most Units having 4. Other Stats have a Max of 6, with an Average of 3.

HP: Number of Cards in a Unit's HP pile. Whenever a Unit is attacked successfully, one or more HP cards are sent to the targeted Unit's Player's Hand. Some of these cards may have a Counter effect that can be played instantly. When a Unit's HP pile is empty, that Unit is Dead and sent to the Discard Pile along with any attached Cards.
PHY: A unit's Physical prowess. This is the most common stat used for Offense Skill cards. This also acts as a Unit's base Physical Defense stat. If an Attacker's Physical Offense (modified by Skills/Equipment) meets or exceeds a Target's Physical Defense (modified by Skills/Equipment), the Target loses 1 HP Card from their HP pile. An extra 1 HP Card is lost for every 3 points of Offense exceeding the Target's Defense. An Innate Attack with PHY uses half of the Attacker's PHY stat (rounded down) as its Physical Offense and has a Range of 1.
MAG: A unit's Magical or Supernatural prowess. This stat is used in many non-Offense Skill cards, and is the primary stat for Healing Skill cards. This also acts as a Unit's base Magic Defense stat. If an Attacker's Magic Offense (modified by Skills/Equipment) meets or exceeds a Target's Magic Defense (modified by Skills/Equipment), the Target loses 1 HP Card from their HP pile. An extra 1 HP Card is lost for every 3 points of Offense exceeding the Target's Defense. An Innate Attack with MAG uses half of the Attacker's MAG stat (rounded down) as its Magic Offense and has a Range of up to 2.
AGI: A unit's Speed, Agility, and Acuity. This stat determines Turn Order for units. In the case of multiple units having equal AGI, players will draw the top card of their deck and whichever card has the highest value in any Stat will act first. Players will alternate turns for any further AGI ties until turn order is set. Increases in AGI change turn order starting from the next round after all units have acted once. This stat can also be used as the primary stat for Speed-based Offense Skills and correspondingly as the Speed-based Defense for targets of these skills. Units cannot perform an AGI-based Innate Attack.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2023, 06:06:16 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

Magic Fanatic

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1346
  • As if it wasn't already.
    • View Profile
Re: The RPGDL Card Game - Blame Djinn for this one
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2023, 08:53:54 AM »
Djinn told me to draw up some FF4 card ideas, so...

Cecil, the Dark Knight
Sword, Dark Knight
HP: 5
ATK/MAG/AGL: 5/5/4
Active: Darkness - Deal self 2 damage: Discard 2 Hand Cards; your attack this turn deals 2 extra damage to one target.

Ability Cards:
Dark Wave - Deal self 2 damage.  Deals MAG damage to all enemy characters.  Discard 2 cards at the end of damage calculation.
Valiant Blow - PHY damage.  Discard 1 card: Move target back 1 row.
Gravity Ball - MAG damage.  Target cannot change rows on their next turn.


Equipment:
Shadowblade - Sword - If equipped to Dark Knight, PHY+1.  If equipped to Cecil, PHY+1.
Deathbringer - Sword - Discard one hand card to equip.  If equipped to Dark Knight, PHY+2.  If equipped to Cecil, MAG+2 and AGL+2



Cecil, the Paladin
Sword, White, Paladin
HP: 7
ATK/MAG/AGL: 4/3/2
Passive: Cover - If a targeted party member has 2 or less HP for a PHY or AGL attack, this character becomes the new target.

Ability Cards:
Cure - Discard 1 card: if target character has less HP than max, place 1 random card from your hand face-down in that character's HP Pile
Esuna - Remove ally's negative status effect
Protect - PHY and AGL attacks do 1 less damage to target ally until the start of Cecil's next turn
Shell - MAG attacks do 2 less damage to target ally until the start of Cecil's next turn

Equipment:
Lusterous Shield - If Equipped to Paladin, PHY attacks deal 1 less damage.  If equipped to Cecil, AGL attacks deal 1 less damage.
Crystal Shield - Discard 1 Hand Card to equip.  If Equipped to Paladin, PHY and MAG attacks deal 1 less damage.  If equipped to Cecil, AGL attacks deal 1 less damage.