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General Chat / Re: FFT Arena Season One AI Tournament
« on: March 24, 2012, 04:40:21 PM »
The Way of the Samurai: being beaten with the nerf hammer until you beg for mercy.
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General Chat / FFT Arena Season One AI Tournament
« on: March 24, 2012, 03:29:57 PM »
Heya DLers. I know at least a few of you here are FFT fans, so I figured you may be interested in this. Basically, FFT Arena is a patch specifically designed for AI battles. FFT AI fights have been going on for years, where they started on GameFAQs. For those not in the know, basically people build teams and battle each other under the AI's control. This can make for some fun matches- many of which have had unexpected and epic results.
Due to the popularity of these AI battles, a small team of fans at FFHacktics decided to produce a patch specifically designed to rebalance the game specifically for these AI battles. At last, the patch has come to a point where people feel comfortable having a tournament based on it. We don't have a specific date for the tourney to start just yet (I'm aiming for June 1st), but we are beginning reservations to hold a slot to guarantee your place in the tournament. That can be done here. We're aiming for about 64 people, but there's no limit. Each battle will be decided on a best-of-three round basis.
Admittedly, there are several changes to jobs, skills, and items from the original, untouched FFT. I've created a beginner's guide to help introduce people to the changes, which can be found here. Naturally, if something is confusing, feel free to ask.
For those who are curious as to what an Arena battle looks like, there are several test matches already recorded. You can find some of them here. Naturally, the latest posts will have the most up-to-date battles.
Due to the popularity of these AI battles, a small team of fans at FFHacktics decided to produce a patch specifically designed to rebalance the game specifically for these AI battles. At last, the patch has come to a point where people feel comfortable having a tournament based on it. We don't have a specific date for the tourney to start just yet (I'm aiming for June 1st), but we are beginning reservations to hold a slot to guarantee your place in the tournament. That can be done here. We're aiming for about 64 people, but there's no limit. Each battle will be decided on a best-of-three round basis.
Admittedly, there are several changes to jobs, skills, and items from the original, untouched FFT. I've created a beginner's guide to help introduce people to the changes, which can be found here. Naturally, if something is confusing, feel free to ask.
For those who are curious as to what an Arena battle looks like, there are several test matches already recorded. You can find some of them here. Naturally, the latest posts will have the most up-to-date battles.
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Final Fantasy VI Complete: Ideastorming and Feedback
« on: March 16, 2012, 11:15:59 AM »
I'm up to about the Opera in terms of dialogue. I imagine there'll be a lot less to do come the WoR, but it should be interesting nonetheless. I've been playing Sage's FFVI mod for a bit now, and with his permission, I'm using some of the ideas found in it- my favorite being Level 2 Daze. I'm also discovering some stuff about the deeper mechanics of FFVI that I didn't know before, so this is quite an interesting ride.
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Final Fantasy VI Complete: Ideastorming and Feedback
« on: March 09, 2012, 08:50:05 PM »
Where did that old story come from anyways? I know it's been around for a while but I'm curious as to its origins.
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Final Fantasy VI Complete: Ideastorming and Feedback
« on: March 09, 2012, 08:03:06 PM »-Fill some plotholes (such as how Gogo came to be)
After leaving a United Nations meeting, Adlai Stevenson was returning to his home country when his plane took a detour over the Bermuda Triangle. During a terrifying storm, a portal opened up that the plane foolishly flew into. In the world of FF6 thus did they come out, and crashed on what would come to be known as Triangle Island. For a while, the people of the plane worked together, but days turned into years, and the group split into two warring factions. Eventually, Adlai was the only one alive, having lost all those close to him, and his new love in the ensuing battle. He sequestered himself in a solitary area of the island, until finally coming to the conclusion that death would be a welcome release. He walked towards the centre of the desert, where the group had seen giant sandworms before, and cried out to the gods to devour him and release him from the world, from the torturous existence he had come to know. As if his prayers had been answered, a sandworm came and devoured him. But fate would not let Adlai go so easily, for he found himself in a mad world inside the creature. Here he met an odd man...or woman...wearing full multi-coloured coverings over its body. The creature called itself "Gogo", and the story it told, while fantastical, was something Adlai found himself believing. Gogo spoke of many dimensions, many worlds beyond this one. It had traveled to this world from one where, difficult as it is to believe, giant trees took the form of humans and magic was commonplace. Gogo, unfortunately, had aged significantly during the transdimensional travel, and thus was dying. However, before it died, Gogo taught Adlai everything it knew. Adlai had at last found the will to live once more, and took this as an act of providence. He trained and mastered the art of mimicry. As Gogo took its last breath, Adlai swore he would carry on the teachings of Gogo, and donned the creature's regalia...as well as its name.
I have an NPC at Maranda saying something along the lines of "An oddly dressed man calling himself the master of the simulacrum appeared out of a weird portal. What a weirdo!" The implication is that it's the same Gogo from FFV, which I think is the most plausible theory.
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Game Design and Modifications / Final Fantasy VI Complete: Ideastorming and Feedback
« on: March 09, 2012, 07:34:54 AM »
So a while back, I completed a FFVI Hardtype patch. Ever since then, I've been adding and tweaking things that have changed it to the point of being a bit more than a Hardtype. I've been adding some minor storyline edits and characterization to some characters that didn't really have much to begin with. Admittedly, I don't know how to edit events (yet), but I've been adding the new stuff to NPC dialogue and some other scenes. A few examples:
-An NPC telling the party about how the Serpent Trench was created.
-Some backstory on Setzer, Kefka, and Banon.
-A lot of stuff from the FFVI novella about the Figaro kingdom.
-Fill some plotholes (such as how Gogo came to be, what happened to Banon after the WoR, how Duncan survived, etc.)
Naturally, a lot of these changes won't be canon. I guess you can call this interactive fanfiction, or a revamped version of FFVI. I was primarily inspired by how FFIV DS and Tactics Ogre PSP added stuff in that was meant to be in the originals, but was left out. I'm trying to blend a lot of the new stuff in without taking away from the original feel of the game (though some would argue against FFIV DS keeping the same feel...)
When I was making FFVI Hardtype, I had the idea of making spells limited to certain characters, to make them feel a bit more unique. I'm considering limiting spells even -more- than I did in FFVI HT, simply to give characters even more defined roles. Admittedly, I'm not the greatest at balance and algorithms and such, which is why I need feedback about this. Sage and I talked, and we were discussing some potential changes. Esper magic learning would be totally removed, with weapons and some armor/relics teaching a character their spells. This would be explained in the story via an NPC or the like. Below are what each character's spell list would look like:
Locke:
Role: Focuses in protective magic with some offensive magical options for when Stealing and his weak physical attacks can't cut it. Focuses on Speed as opposed to Shadow, who focuses on Evasion.
Skillset: Blink, Bolt 2, Fire, Fire 2, Haste, Libra, Poison, Protect, Reraise, Shell
Notes: Sage suggested replacing Reraise with Raise, and giving Locke Haste 2.
Shadow:
Role: An offensive debuffer with abilities that cripple enemy accuracy and bolster one's own, focusing on Evasion, as opposed to Locke who focuses on Speed.
Skillset: Blind, Blink, Confuse, Death, Dispel, Poison, Slow, Stop, Warp
Notes: Sage suggested giving Shadow Bio, which would fit his personality and give him a more reliable offensive option.
Terra:
Role: An offensive mage who focuses almost purely on destructive elemental magic, having a spell ready for almost any enemy's weakness, which can be revealed with her Libra spell.
Skillset: Bolt, Break, Chrono, Cure, Demi, Demi 2, Dispel, Drain, Fire, Fire 2, Fire 3, Flare, Holy, Ice, Libra, Melt, Poison, Protect, Quake, Stop, Ultima, Warp
Celes:
Role: A defensive mage who is more suited to physical combat than Terra. Celes can switch roles at a minute's notice, being able to swap between offense and defense with ease. Despite this, her equipment does not allow her to be a master at either.
Skillset: Bolt, Cure, Cure 2, Cure 3, Dispel, Esuna, Float, Haste, Holy, Ice, Ice 2, Ice 3, Libra, Meteor, Protect, Raise, Reflect, Regen, Shell, Silence, Whirl
Strago:
Role: A mage with a varied mix of Black and White Magic, although Strago lacks a large spell list like Terra and Celes have, he more than makes up for this with his plentiful and varied Lores.
Skillset: Bolt, Bolt 2, Bolt 3, Cure, Demi, Ice 2, Libra, Meteor, Poison, Regen
Notes: Sage suggested giving Strago Warp, Dispel, and Drain to have a bit of "weird" spells to fill out his list.
Edgar:
Role: A more offensive version of Celes with fewer spells, Edgar's focus is almost purely on defense and keeping himself and his allies alive throughout the battle.
Skillset: Bolt, Cure, Cure 2, Drain, Ice, Osmose, Raise, Shell, Slow
Notes: Sage suggested giving Edgar Raise 2 to give him more use in the WoR.
Sabin:
Role: An offensive powerhouse, Sabin is a stark contrast to Edgar, who focuses on defense. Sabin focuses on an all-out offense, using Berserk and Regen to maintain his assault. If an enemy should be resistant to his physical attacks and/or Blitzes, Sabin also has the means to cast mid-level offensive magic.
Skillset: Berserk, Cure, Fire 2, Ice 2, Osmose, Poison, Regen, Sleep
Notes: Sage suggested giving Sabin Esuna to emulate Purify/Stigma Magic- I personally don't agree, since Sabin already has something like this.
Cyan:
Role: Slaughtering enemies and penetrating their defenses is Cyan's game. Capable of instantly slaying enemies later on with Death, and his ability to remove buffs with Dispel, when coupled with Slow 2, Cyan can easily cripple enemy teams. Slow 2 will ensure that enemies act as slowly as the party.
Skillset: Bolt 2, Death, Dispel, Haste, Protect, Reflect, Regen, Shell, Slow, Slow 2
Notes: Sage suggested giving Cyan Cure and Rasp, the former so he can heal (albeit not very well) early on, and Rasp to help prevent spellcasting from some early foes.
Mog:
Role: A mixed bag of offense, defense, and status, Mog provides a little bit of it all, but not very good at any of it. Despite this, he is very useful with Esuna and Float, and Whirl and Ice 2 can also provide a powerful offensive option for when Jump won't cut it.
Skillset: Bolt, Confuse, Cure, Esuna, Float, Haste, Ice, Ice 2, Imp, Whirl
Relm:
Role: The party's dedicated healer. What she lacks in AoE and sheer power is more than made up for with Haste 2 and Raise 2. Though she may not seem useful early on, she is well worth investing in for later during the hardest battles in the game.
Skillset: Chrono, Cure 2, Cure 3, Haste, Haste 2, Holy, Raise 2, Reflect, Regen, Sleep
Notes: Sage suggested giving Relm Quake as a non-reliable damage option, as Quake and Whirl now act as normal damaging spells of the level two variety, as Wind/Earth are needed elements. I think she should also get Cure and Raise as she has Cure 2/3 and Raise 2.
Setzer:
Role: A combination of Locke's Speed and Shadow's debuffing abilities, merely having Setzer in the party will increase the Gil obtained from battle. Setzer's role is an odd one, focusing on non-battle effects, such as extra Gil, extra EXP, and tampering with the encounter/pre-emptive strike rates.
Skillset: Banish, Bio, Blind, Blink, Chrono, Confuse, Death, Haste 2, Libra, Rasp
Notes: Sage recommended giving Setzer Demi 2 so there'd be more than one person able to use it. I think he should get Float, as well.
Skillsets aside, Equipment Weight from FFVI HT would still be in, and I think a general increase in difficulty (perhaps just filling in all the Nothings in enemy AI scripts) would be preferable. I'm already using FFVI HT as a base for this, so it wouldn't be too hard to rebalance things as needed. Ideas are welcome and encouraged! That said, I probably won't begin fully working on this until later this spring or summer, since I'm already actively working on a FFT and FFTA mod. I already have the framework setup for this, but I'd like to know if you guys think it'd be worth going through with.
I had a topic, but it died about a year ago, so feel free to merge this one with that one if you guys think it should be merged. Thanks!
-An NPC telling the party about how the Serpent Trench was created.
-Some backstory on Setzer, Kefka, and Banon.
-A lot of stuff from the FFVI novella about the Figaro kingdom.
-Fill some plotholes (such as how Gogo came to be, what happened to Banon after the WoR, how Duncan survived, etc.)
Naturally, a lot of these changes won't be canon. I guess you can call this interactive fanfiction, or a revamped version of FFVI. I was primarily inspired by how FFIV DS and Tactics Ogre PSP added stuff in that was meant to be in the originals, but was left out. I'm trying to blend a lot of the new stuff in without taking away from the original feel of the game (though some would argue against FFIV DS keeping the same feel...)
When I was making FFVI Hardtype, I had the idea of making spells limited to certain characters, to make them feel a bit more unique. I'm considering limiting spells even -more- than I did in FFVI HT, simply to give characters even more defined roles. Admittedly, I'm not the greatest at balance and algorithms and such, which is why I need feedback about this. Sage and I talked, and we were discussing some potential changes. Esper magic learning would be totally removed, with weapons and some armor/relics teaching a character their spells. This would be explained in the story via an NPC or the like. Below are what each character's spell list would look like:
Locke:
Role: Focuses in protective magic with some offensive magical options for when Stealing and his weak physical attacks can't cut it. Focuses on Speed as opposed to Shadow, who focuses on Evasion.
Skillset: Blink, Bolt 2, Fire, Fire 2, Haste, Libra, Poison, Protect, Reraise, Shell
Notes: Sage suggested replacing Reraise with Raise, and giving Locke Haste 2.
Shadow:
Role: An offensive debuffer with abilities that cripple enemy accuracy and bolster one's own, focusing on Evasion, as opposed to Locke who focuses on Speed.
Skillset: Blind, Blink, Confuse, Death, Dispel, Poison, Slow, Stop, Warp
Notes: Sage suggested giving Shadow Bio, which would fit his personality and give him a more reliable offensive option.
Terra:
Role: An offensive mage who focuses almost purely on destructive elemental magic, having a spell ready for almost any enemy's weakness, which can be revealed with her Libra spell.
Skillset: Bolt, Break, Chrono, Cure, Demi, Demi 2, Dispel, Drain, Fire, Fire 2, Fire 3, Flare, Holy, Ice, Libra, Melt, Poison, Protect, Quake, Stop, Ultima, Warp
Celes:
Role: A defensive mage who is more suited to physical combat than Terra. Celes can switch roles at a minute's notice, being able to swap between offense and defense with ease. Despite this, her equipment does not allow her to be a master at either.
Skillset: Bolt, Cure, Cure 2, Cure 3, Dispel, Esuna, Float, Haste, Holy, Ice, Ice 2, Ice 3, Libra, Meteor, Protect, Raise, Reflect, Regen, Shell, Silence, Whirl
Strago:
Role: A mage with a varied mix of Black and White Magic, although Strago lacks a large spell list like Terra and Celes have, he more than makes up for this with his plentiful and varied Lores.
Skillset: Bolt, Bolt 2, Bolt 3, Cure, Demi, Ice 2, Libra, Meteor, Poison, Regen
Notes: Sage suggested giving Strago Warp, Dispel, and Drain to have a bit of "weird" spells to fill out his list.
Edgar:
Role: A more offensive version of Celes with fewer spells, Edgar's focus is almost purely on defense and keeping himself and his allies alive throughout the battle.
Skillset: Bolt, Cure, Cure 2, Drain, Ice, Osmose, Raise, Shell, Slow
Notes: Sage suggested giving Edgar Raise 2 to give him more use in the WoR.
Sabin:
Role: An offensive powerhouse, Sabin is a stark contrast to Edgar, who focuses on defense. Sabin focuses on an all-out offense, using Berserk and Regen to maintain his assault. If an enemy should be resistant to his physical attacks and/or Blitzes, Sabin also has the means to cast mid-level offensive magic.
Skillset: Berserk, Cure, Fire 2, Ice 2, Osmose, Poison, Regen, Sleep
Notes: Sage suggested giving Sabin Esuna to emulate Purify/Stigma Magic- I personally don't agree, since Sabin already has something like this.
Cyan:
Role: Slaughtering enemies and penetrating their defenses is Cyan's game. Capable of instantly slaying enemies later on with Death, and his ability to remove buffs with Dispel, when coupled with Slow 2, Cyan can easily cripple enemy teams. Slow 2 will ensure that enemies act as slowly as the party.
Skillset: Bolt 2, Death, Dispel, Haste, Protect, Reflect, Regen, Shell, Slow, Slow 2
Notes: Sage suggested giving Cyan Cure and Rasp, the former so he can heal (albeit not very well) early on, and Rasp to help prevent spellcasting from some early foes.
Mog:
Role: A mixed bag of offense, defense, and status, Mog provides a little bit of it all, but not very good at any of it. Despite this, he is very useful with Esuna and Float, and Whirl and Ice 2 can also provide a powerful offensive option for when Jump won't cut it.
Skillset: Bolt, Confuse, Cure, Esuna, Float, Haste, Ice, Ice 2, Imp, Whirl
Relm:
Role: The party's dedicated healer. What she lacks in AoE and sheer power is more than made up for with Haste 2 and Raise 2. Though she may not seem useful early on, she is well worth investing in for later during the hardest battles in the game.
Skillset: Chrono, Cure 2, Cure 3, Haste, Haste 2, Holy, Raise 2, Reflect, Regen, Sleep
Notes: Sage suggested giving Relm Quake as a non-reliable damage option, as Quake and Whirl now act as normal damaging spells of the level two variety, as Wind/Earth are needed elements. I think she should also get Cure and Raise as she has Cure 2/3 and Raise 2.
Setzer:
Role: A combination of Locke's Speed and Shadow's debuffing abilities, merely having Setzer in the party will increase the Gil obtained from battle. Setzer's role is an odd one, focusing on non-battle effects, such as extra Gil, extra EXP, and tampering with the encounter/pre-emptive strike rates.
Skillset: Banish, Bio, Blind, Blink, Chrono, Confuse, Death, Haste 2, Libra, Rasp
Notes: Sage recommended giving Setzer Demi 2 so there'd be more than one person able to use it. I think he should get Float, as well.
Skillsets aside, Equipment Weight from FFVI HT would still be in, and I think a general increase in difficulty (perhaps just filling in all the Nothings in enemy AI scripts) would be preferable. I'm already using FFVI HT as a base for this, so it wouldn't be too hard to rebalance things as needed. Ideas are welcome and encouraged! That said, I probably won't begin fully working on this until later this spring or summer, since I'm already actively working on a FFT and FFTA mod. I already have the framework setup for this, but I'd like to know if you guys think it'd be worth going through with.
I had a topic, but it died about a year ago, so feel free to merge this one with that one if you guys think it should be merged. Thanks!
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Discussion / Re: DLCon 7: Florida
« on: January 07, 2012, 06:40:24 PM »
No guarantees I'll be able to make it due to money issues, but I'll try to make it for the Con and the Universal trip. Keep your fingers crossed! 
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 19, 2011, 12:31:56 PM »
Whoa, holy hell, for some reason I didn't get an e-mail regarding all of these replies! Sorry about that.
I'll address all your points in a bit. (Food time!)
I'll address all your points in a bit. (Food time!)
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 17, 2011, 04:29:50 PM »Casters really have the better skillset and class unless you want to bring in Orlandu or something.
Even with Orlandu, almost every magic skillset has more versatility than All-Swordskill. Granted, no: Black Magic doesn't, but even Summon has stuff like Golem, and the number of versatility moves in Yin-Yang, Time, and White is...actually pretty ridiculous; like more than half of the powerful effects in the game are largely restricted to those three skillsets (and Mathskill).
Most of the rest of the game is just...damage, or unique but very weak effects (like Battle Skill). Orlandu's got power, and some versatility, but even if Holy Swordsman was a generic class replacing Knight, sure, it might replace your damage dealers (although mages probably outclass until chapter 3) but I'd still expect quite a bit of mage use for Haste/Protect/Shell/Raise/Faith/Quick, and maybe still Demi/Life Drain on bosses.
I would argue that the versatility provided by All-Swordskill is more useful than the versatility provided by magic. Being able to damage an enemy and break their gear, or drain a ton of HP/MP, or hell- even the statuses provided by All-Swordskill- are more useful than almost anything magic can do. This is admittedly in part due to the gear Orlandu has, but I'd say he's not less versatile than most of the mages (with the exception of the Calculator). Just my two cents.
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 17, 2011, 12:57:17 PM »I tried the FF6 hack!
- Terra can't equip the Dagger she has on at the beginning of the game, which seems to be a bug. This means I might never have Scan!
- I like how only the random-ass moogle team has a chance of beating the marshall. This took a lot more tries than it should have since the boss liked to target the only healer in the team with Stop, and unfortunately restarting this battle is a pain.
- Magitek armors. They are too overpowered. Mtek laser is a OHKO to both Terra and Locke and you have no options at this point. Restarting this battle takes ages if you don't savestate (I guess I should) This fight was just pure luck, I won by spamming Noiseblaster and... That's it. I got extremely lucky (For those who don't know, Noiseblaster targets your team too here)
Overall it's definitely fun, but so far there are a few issues. Most enemies have regular scrubby attacks + one giant pain in the ass attack (Blizzard, Marshall's charge, stop, sleep, Mtek laser for example so far) which makes randomness a big factor during battles.
Edit: And it makes some battles take longer than they should. Leafers have 100% sleep and like to use it -> Extremely long but not difficult regular battles.
1) Terra's Dagger has been fixed in the updating I'm working on. Knew about it for a while but kept forgetting to fix it. >_>
2) Each team generally has to work together now to beat all the enemies. Using Locke and Mog to steal and clear out the enemies respectively to prepare the all-NPC Moogle team for Marshal.
3) Magitek Armors have been nerfed in the update I'm working on.
4) Leafer's Leaf Dance has been made evadeable now.
Glad you're enjoying it! Keep up with the updates! ^_^
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Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 17, 2011, 09:03:17 AM »
-You're right- Draw Out, Summon, and Math Skill were amazing- but their classes, not so much. They all seemed fairly frail and the CT for certain spells was way too high, causing them to be midcharged unless you had Short Charge or the like.
"I told you how mc is the best right? Because mc is the best.
I remember reading this conversation this morning and wishing I could post from my phone. I was all excited to chip in with something and now the only thing I can remember wanting to say was this to Eternal.
Don't worry so much about balancing numbers well at this point. It is easier for you to balance around design choices you make along the way than it is for you to design around a bunch of balance changes you have made up front."
-I'm all about theme; balance and numbers have always came last to me. I would very much like to make it a balanced patch- and I'll do what I can to make it as balanced as possible- but it ultimately isn't my biggest fear right now, to be honest. (If that's what you were getting at.)
"I told you how mc is the best right? Because mc is the best.
I remember reading this conversation this morning and wishing I could post from my phone. I was all excited to chip in with something and now the only thing I can remember wanting to say was this to Eternal.
Don't worry so much about balancing numbers well at this point. It is easier for you to balance around design choices you make along the way than it is for you to design around a bunch of balance changes you have made up front."
-I'm all about theme; balance and numbers have always came last to me. I would very much like to make it a balanced patch- and I'll do what I can to make it as balanced as possible- but it ultimately isn't my biggest fear right now, to be honest. (If that's what you were getting at.)
12
Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 16, 2011, 10:01:08 PM »Not sure how much you've read my spreadsheets yet, but every item is equally balanced to be used all throughout the game, and only a few items are steal/Move-Find only. So it's more-or-less something I'm thinking of to help so stats don't get ridiculously high.
I hadn't glanced at the items yet.
Looking at them, I don't think there's any particular concern in the long game--the equipment is stuff that would fit in fine with endgame FFT. Well, other than the usual "FFT's quadratic formula encourages people to attack with fists not weapons at high levels." (And you're already doing plenty to discourage that--like no Bracer equivalent and no Power Sleeve equivalent; actually, for all I know you've changed the damage formula on fists).
My concern would be more in the earlygame, when HP from class is going to be much smaller than HP from equipment. I'm guessing you were planning to deal with this by setting the level 1 HP much higher and then taking away the ability to level? That'd work. Another option would be to raise the starting HP and also significantly lower the HP growth.
Basically, you can balance reasonably effectively either way; FFT's system is fairly flexible like that.
What you should be doing is asking yourself what kind of game would you rather make? If you remove levelling, then you can be more precise in your designs; you can set things up so that the player can only survive by 1 HP and only with the right class/equipment; this is not something you could design normally. On the other hand, RPGs generally have a bit of an auto-correct difficulty, where if you're having trouble you will gain more levels, and thus the game gets easier...and you lose that when you don't have leveling. (And JP gain systems don't always have the same dynamic--in FFT an experienced player can make a much more powerful character with 1600 JP than a new player generally will with five times the JP).
But...yeah, roughly how I think about the design process is:
Step 1: Decide who your audience is.
Step 2: Figure out what large-scale systems are good or bad for that audience. Cull the bad. Keep or extend the good.
Step 3: Now that you've done that, go mess with some numbers for balancing (bearing in mind that, depending on the audience, the definition of "balancing" may change).
The decision to include or exclude levelling is such a large scale change that I feel like balance shouldn't be coming into the question yet; you can make a fairly balanced game with levelling, or without levelling regardless of when equipment shows up. It's a question of: does no-levelling match the kind of game you want to make?
(If the Aesthetic you're shooting for is "you get everything from the start", then it might be the right decision. Then again, increased choice is a different variable from the relaxation/trance of the grind. The reason most games don't do increased choice from the start is choice paralysis, but you really shouldn't let that stop you--LFT definitely leaned on the side of "more options earlier!" because it worked under the assumption that LFT players already know FFT and therefore won't find the flood of options overwhelming).
I'm going to try and break the post into pieces so I can address each issue indivdually.
1) "Looking at them, I don't think there's any particular concern in the long game--the equipment is stuff that would fit in fine with endgame FFT. Well, other than the usual "FFT's quadratic formula encourages people to attack with fists not weapons at high levels." (And you're already doing plenty to discourage that--like no Bracer equivalent and no Power Sleeve equivalent; actually, for all I know you've changed the damage formula on fists).
My concern would be more in the earlygame, when HP from class is going to be much smaller than HP from equipment. I'm guessing you were planning to deal with this by setting the level 1 HP much higher and then taking away the ability to level? That'd work. Another option would be to raise the starting HP and also significantly lower the HP growth."
-Simply put, I'm a mage fanboy. I absolutely hate it when physical classes outshine magical classes- which is what happened in FFT, for the most part. I'm really trying to promote magic by giving most classes magical options. Even physical classes like the Sentinel get magic. (i.e, Sentinel gets Protect/Shell, Viking gets Thunder/Water, Berserker gets Berserk, etc.) This will promote wanting to boost MA and elemental boosting even on physical units, so magic will (hopefully) get as much screentime as things like Wave Fist, Earth Slash, and Geomancy now. Addressing Barehanded attacks, the formula is -not- going to change, but Brave itself will. Basically, Brave is becoming "Fury", which is like a physical variant of Faith. The higher your Fury, the higher physical damage you deal, but the higher damage you take in return. The inverse is also true- lower Fury, lower damage taken and received.
-Regarding HP Growth/Multipliers... this is admittedly my weakness. I'm really not good at balance. This is further hampered by my indecisiveness about whether to maintain levelling (which I'll address below). For now, my primary concern is making sure skills work- growths/multipliers can be easily tweaked later and will likely be changed a ton anyways during playtesting.
2) "What you should be doing is asking yourself what kind of game would you rather make? If you remove levelling, then you can be more precise in your designs; you can set things up so that the player can only survive by 1 HP and only with the right class/equipment; this is not something you could design normally. On the other hand, RPGs generally have a bit of an auto-correct difficulty, where if you're having trouble you will gain more levels, and thus the game gets easier...and you lose that when you don't have leveling. (And JP gain systems don't always have the same dynamic--in FFT an experienced player can make a much more powerful character with 1600 JP than a new player generally will with five times the JP)."
-The concept of making each battle a puzzle is not new to me. It was more or less my plan to make bosses "puzzle-like" when I was making FFVI Hardtype. That said, for FFT, there's just so many various options and customisation, I don't really see how this is viable. There's just too much to cover when making puzzle-like battles. I think I'm making a more Tactics Ogre approach out of this, in that battles will most likely be longer (due to the high HP and survivability of units thanks to much more defensive equipment), and buffs/debuffs are thusly more important. So spending the 200 JP or whatever on a debuff might be worth it more in the end than taking the 500 JP level 2 elemental spell.
3) Regarding the "kind" of patch I'd like to produce, I already feel that I'm very much taking away from standard RPG fare, which is why I'm hesitant on removing levelling. I want there to be -some- sense of familiarity when playing PW, which is why I've left special jobs intact (mostly- although they've been rebalanced). It's also why I'm making Vanilla FFT Generics recruitable (although slightly modified due to limitations). I very much want to keep a Final Fantasy feeling while breathing fresh air into FFT. Hopefully that makes more sense than I think it did.
4) In general, my audience is really anyone who's bored of standard FFT fare. Now, I would love to open it up to a wider audience- which is namely why I don't intend for PW to be difficult. I want it to be -different-, not necessarily tedious or challenging. Obviously it'd be harder than Vanilla... but that's not saying much. As far as choice paralysis is concerned, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. That is my single biggest fear right now is that people will patch the ISO, boot it up, beat Orbonne, look at all the new jobs, skills, and items, go @_@ and never pick it up again. I'm really not sure what to do in that regard, other than put a HUGE disclaimer beforehand about trying out all the new skills and such.
13
Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 16, 2011, 08:07:47 PM »Elfboy's right: I used to do SCCs while gamesharking myself to level 1 (around the same time the rest of the SCC community was moving to Solo SCCs--mostly I just find FFT a poor engine for solo games; hard solo fights often boil down to "turnintoacrystalturnintoacrystalturnintoaYESSSS"). I can get you the gameshark codes if you want them."Fenrir: For FFT at least, there's a GameShark code that does pretty much exactly what you say (not sure what it is... ask mc) which I'd imagine is probably easy enough to pull off on emulators (though... not certain)."
Everybody is at level 1? Sounds... Actually great yeah, but it would still be a lot better with some balance work (I don't know much about FFT, but everybody would have almost the same attack power late in the game but a lot less HPs, right?) Either that or everybody is at level 50 and battles take way too long at the beginning.
Damage is not the same at all. HP does become the same (except Mime and Monk which suck at HP due to lack of equipment). The money you gain from a fight is fixed to enemy level, which means the level 1 randoms are worthless. Enemy loot from randoms is also worthless.
--------------
Now, on designing a patch to be played at level 1: yes, you could do this, and avoid most of the ways FFT isn't designed to work with this setup (like...have chapter 4 equipment not give +200 HP). Fixing level to 1 is actually something I probably would do if I ever get around to that hypothetical future FFT patch that I may or may not ever make. (It's definitely not something for LFT).
You'll want to ask what your audience is for this patch, though. Mindlessly grinding in FFT is...fun; it's theraputic. It's well...see Nicole Lazzaro's work--specifically relating to what she categorizes as "serious fun" -- relaxation/trance.
The place I would use a fixed level 1 design decision is if I was thinking something like "Screw that entire playstyle; this patch is all about brutally hard almost puzzle-like fights, and everything else takes a backseat." (Or whatever--the point is, there's nothing wrong with specializing your patch to a specific audience archetype, but you should very clearly define your intended audience before you start making these design decisions. It's also equally valid to appeal to multiple audience archetypes--that was the goal of LFT; you end up giving a diluted but almost-as-fun experience to a variety of people, as opposed to giving a "flawless" experience to one audience).
Not sure how much you've read my spreadsheets yet, but every item is equally balanced to be used all throughout the game, and only a few items are steal/Move-Find only. So it's more-or-less something I'm thinking of to help so stats don't get ridiculously high.
14
General Chat / Re: The DL Family Album
« on: May 16, 2011, 02:59:38 PM »
I know I don't look it, but I just turned 20 back in April. So yeah...
15
General Chat / Re: The DL Family Album
« on: May 16, 2011, 02:26:35 PM »
Hopefully nobody will mind the month-long bump here, but I think I'll throw my hat (or rather, picture) into the ring. Note that this was taken about a year and a half ago, but I don't look much different since.
16
Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 16, 2011, 08:00:30 AM »
The pseudo-official job combination for Mog is Geomancer/Dancer/Dragoon, even though in FFVI Advance he's just listed as a "Moogle". Not that VI Advance was terribly helpful for determining official job titles to begin with because they were so vague...
17
Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 16, 2011, 07:55:34 AM »
I just kept Jump limited to Edgar via Dragoon Boots, and made it Mog's Attack command to reflect him being a Dragoon. It gives Mog some extra use while keeping his job class theme intact.
18
Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 15, 2011, 07:35:48 PM »
I'm actually considering a no-level progression for FFT, since all my jobs/armor are already balanced without considering levels. The only thing stopping me is that I fear it'd be -too- different from standard FF norm.
19
General Chat / Re: Eternal\\\'s Den of Wonders*
« on: May 14, 2011, 02:15:42 PM »
Originally I was going to make two topics- an intro and a topic for my mods, but I decided against it since I didn't want to cause too much clutter.
20
General Chat / Re: Eternal\\\'s Den of Wonders*
« on: May 13, 2011, 10:09:24 PM »
Ah, yet another name I recognize from GameFAQs. Thanks for the Valkyrie Profile walkthrough.
I'm trying to beat VP: Silmerria, but it's very slow going.
I'm trying to beat VP: Silmerria, but it's very slow going.
21
Game Design and Modifications / Re: Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 13, 2011, 05:01:01 PM »
That's one of my concerns as well, and I'll likely be lowering the MA on those since I've recently found space for Level III Magic (for the Generic Black Mages to get). I haven't made all their skills yet (mostly knocking items out of the way first), but when I do, I'll test them out and see what the damage will be like.
22
Game Design and Modifications / Eternal's Den of Wonders*
« on: May 13, 2011, 04:05:57 PM »
Hello everyone, as you can see, my name's Eternal248, but most people call me Eternal or ET. Whichever works for you is fine by me.
I was introduced to this forum by Laggy, after we were discussing LFT and various other FFT-related things. I'm an admin over at Final Fantasy Hacktics, so I'm very interested in others' approaches to FFT modding. I've already been on IRC, and I'm loving the community here! I'm looking forward to being able to share my work with you guys, and hopefully you'll enjoy it all! I'm by no means a "real" hacker- I rely on the editors that others are generous enough to make. I'm currently working on a FFT patch (which I'll discuss below), and I've finished (but am still updating) a FFVI Hardtype patch.
~Final Fantasy VI Hardtype~
My very first ever patch! The basic aim was to make things harder, but in time, it grew. Although I'm still fine-tuning certain aspects (Rages, Lores, and Sketches, I'm looking at you), generally each PC in FFVI Hardtype fits a more pre-defined role. This is accomplished by limiting the spells certain Espers teach, and making most spells learnable through equipment. Generally, using buffs and debuffs are more important now that enemies hit much, much harder. Certain spells have been changed, mostly to be more useful/less broken. For example:
Quick -> Blind
Antdot -> Chrono (Cures Slow/Stop)
Break now deals Earth damage.
My ultimate goal is for each PC to be a bit more useful and focused than they were before, since they seemed rather same-y in Vanilla FFVI. I could go into deeper detail of what I've done... but I don't know if you guys would want the specifics or not. FFVI Hardtype has been attached below in a .zip file. You'll need Lunar IPS to patch a clean ROM.
~Final Fantasy Tactics: Parted Ways~
My current project. Featuring all new skills, all new items, all new weapons, and all new jobs, Parted Ways (PW for short) is intended to be a total overhaul of FFT. Each item and job is balanced and most items are available from the beginning, allowing you to customise your characters early-on with a myriad of setups. Don't want to use the new jobs? That's fine, too! The old FFT generics you know and love will be available to recruit at certain points in the game- albeit with slightly different sprites and abilities.
Although not currently fully planned, new events and missions will be added later in Parted Ways' development when I learn how to event edit. Currently, I'm inputting all the mechanics into the Patcher, but a playable version should be downloadable by the end of this month or halfway into next month. I'll take some screenshots later today for you guys. Attached below is an Excel spreadsheet of all the new generic jobs, skills, new items, and new armor for you to view if you'd like.
Well, I'm done rambling about myself now. I'm glad to be a part of this community!
*not guaranteed to be wonderful.
EDIT: The screenshots I promised can be found in the album here: http://s940.photobucket.com/albums/ad245/Eternal248/Parted%20Ways/
I was introduced to this forum by Laggy, after we were discussing LFT and various other FFT-related things. I'm an admin over at Final Fantasy Hacktics, so I'm very interested in others' approaches to FFT modding. I've already been on IRC, and I'm loving the community here! I'm looking forward to being able to share my work with you guys, and hopefully you'll enjoy it all! I'm by no means a "real" hacker- I rely on the editors that others are generous enough to make. I'm currently working on a FFT patch (which I'll discuss below), and I've finished (but am still updating) a FFVI Hardtype patch.
~Final Fantasy VI Hardtype~
My very first ever patch! The basic aim was to make things harder, but in time, it grew. Although I'm still fine-tuning certain aspects (Rages, Lores, and Sketches, I'm looking at you), generally each PC in FFVI Hardtype fits a more pre-defined role. This is accomplished by limiting the spells certain Espers teach, and making most spells learnable through equipment. Generally, using buffs and debuffs are more important now that enemies hit much, much harder. Certain spells have been changed, mostly to be more useful/less broken. For example:
Quick -> Blind
Antdot -> Chrono (Cures Slow/Stop)
Break now deals Earth damage.
My ultimate goal is for each PC to be a bit more useful and focused than they were before, since they seemed rather same-y in Vanilla FFVI. I could go into deeper detail of what I've done... but I don't know if you guys would want the specifics or not. FFVI Hardtype has been attached below in a .zip file. You'll need Lunar IPS to patch a clean ROM.
~Final Fantasy Tactics: Parted Ways~
My current project. Featuring all new skills, all new items, all new weapons, and all new jobs, Parted Ways (PW for short) is intended to be a total overhaul of FFT. Each item and job is balanced and most items are available from the beginning, allowing you to customise your characters early-on with a myriad of setups. Don't want to use the new jobs? That's fine, too! The old FFT generics you know and love will be available to recruit at certain points in the game- albeit with slightly different sprites and abilities.
Although not currently fully planned, new events and missions will be added later in Parted Ways' development when I learn how to event edit. Currently, I'm inputting all the mechanics into the Patcher, but a playable version should be downloadable by the end of this month or halfway into next month. I'll take some screenshots later today for you guys. Attached below is an Excel spreadsheet of all the new generic jobs, skills, new items, and new armor for you to view if you'd like.
Well, I'm done rambling about myself now. I'm glad to be a part of this community!
*not guaranteed to be wonderful.
EDIT: The screenshots I promised can be found in the album here: http://s940.photobucket.com/albums/ad245/Eternal248/Parted%20Ways/
23
Game Design and Modifications / Re: LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!)
« on: May 13, 2011, 03:46:34 PM »
Looking forward to playing this soon. I'll probably be FFT'd out by the end of this and my patch, though.
As for what Ninja said... there is a very easy ASM for that that can be easily applied.
As for what Ninja said... there is a very easy ASM for that that can be easily applied.
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