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« on: May 01, 2023, 02:09:18 AM »
Like SN, I don't hold generics against the D5 plot PCs.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - I'm pretty reluctant to hype characters from games where multihit physicals are the norm giving D5 characters increased revenge gauge gains and 3 swings is a pretty normal amount of swings in S3. Killia -does- have his own evade game as well as War God to ramp a bit and I agree that if he can live long enough to use Tyrant Revelio he wins but that needs 8 attacks to happen. Meanwhile, Nash is faster, averages a 3HKO at base, and has Heavy Damage/stun procs, which feels like too much to ignore to me.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4) - This is probably right, Killia resists fists and takes less damage from range 1 folks and probably does so to enough of a degree that he can outslug.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Not really outslugging this, though.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - I'll bite, helps that Crono is a bit shy of a 3-2 to average speed even at best so he only gets 5 attacks in.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Going after Cherche with swords is a laughably terrible idea especially with Killia's poor HIT stat so fists it is! That's... probably enough though? Coinflip evasion isn't really Cherche's friend here since they both have similarish durability (well, if Cherche is in melee and not using a lance at any rate but using a lance means no brave) here and Killia can use AHW to avoid brave axe counters.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - uh Killia's best non-phys damage is a bit more than half that of Macrocosm and that's not really good enough.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad) - Probably another case where being able to use fists and use AHW to avoid melee counters works, I think. Not looking at this one too hard though.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon) - Typical Miranda problems.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Bart (Xenogears) - Evade and poizn at worst, I think.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - I doubt anything Killia has works well here? Disgaea characters being able to counter counters might matter if you don't allow starting OD meter but I do.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4) - Killia should have a good base ATK stat from what I recall but it's not reduce Crash below turn 2 good and he kind of needs that.
Killia (Disgaea 5) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2) - 2HKOs first.
Engage's KP is 55 to me (possibly a bit higher since the smash weapon average only factors in accuracy randomness and my thoughts on that should be clear), so no Panette OHKOing average with a silver greataxe hype.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - Nash... was a knife user, right? Anyways he doubles, 2RKOs, and goes first. Panette 2HKOs herself but Nash has good evasion so she'll probably whiff the second attack (and needs to use the less accurate tomahawk to counter, I think? S3 weapon specifics are kind of a blur.)
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4) - Alena's evasion is a bit worse though and she's locked to melee so that probably is enough to tilt things. NES version might flip things but that's not the version I played.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Kneejerk. Panette does go first which makes things interesting but Meliadoul has shield evade, gets around the counters and has that whole weapon breaking nonsense. e: OTOH averaging in StQ/W8's impact on the physical durability curve is fair and... yeah I don't see a problem with allowing Panette what she'd need here. Hellcry being able to double wouldn't be too outlandish but uh Meliadoul can't wear hats and Panette's not -that- slow so I'm not sure why that was even brought up.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - Doubles, gets around counters.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Goes first and 2RKOS with a brave axe. Panette doesn't 2HKO back with silver axe and silver greataxe is suicide.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - So silver greataxe 2HKOs through the phys resist... Heat Riser... I don't think it buys him more than the turn needed to use it and it doesn't let him ORKO.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad) - Doubles, gets around counters, and no, Whirlwins aren't sufficient to convince me that Danette has an attack match disadvantage against axe-using infantry *proceeds to tap the sign*.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon) - um. Even with starting SP I'm not sure how Miranda has the damage for this? It's not like that would magically give her the MP for two WSDs.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Bart (Xenogears) - The cheese claims another victim.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - e: right, it was Ally, that's a thing.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4) - Probaby? Panette STR is really, really dumb, very likely makes Crash turn 3 or worse and Gryz doesn't double.
Panette (FE Engage) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - As much as Yellow Scarves don't matter here, Nash can deal with any potential Immobilize hype well enough anyways.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4) - Alena 2HKOs and 3-2s. Blind's not foolproof and if Hughette tries for Immobilize Alena just finishes the deal once that fails to reapply. Which it will, because status infliction in TS is based off of level and Alena is above average in that regard.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - I can't say I see Mighty Sword being useful here, and while Meliadoul can block Blind and Don't Move she can't block both at once, and surely riding a cute bird suffices to bypass shield evasion so I think this is actually right.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - TS characters can't dodge magic so.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Yeah probably.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - lolnope. Adachi doesn't go first against PCs ever but it doesn't even matter with the status immunity and the phys resist.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad) - oh look, *an actual flyer*. Danette really didn't need to lose half her damage against someone like Hughette.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon) - I mean I really have no idea why Miranda is in this pool.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Bart (Xenogears) - Nope.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4) - So Gryz is Lv45 to an average of Lv42.11 let me see what I think about Immobilize landing turn 1 here. And again Blind not foolproof.
Hughette (Triangle Strategy) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - Yeah none of Nash's advantages work out too well here. He'd really wish for an interp that makes Yellow Scarves not trash and I don't need to tell you how I feel about that.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4] - Not sure about this one. DS Alena being worse makes this harder to read but Puglist does need an Arm Bind quickly and equipping a +stat accessory to help with that and that does poor things to your durability in EO5. Leg Binds do help but not -that- much since Alena's speed is really dumb.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Blocking Don't Act is a pretty good analog to blocking Arm Bind and Hellcry is gonna ruin Pugilist forever.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - Not letting Vigil Hat cover binds is probably enough, One-Two Punch is a heck of a thing.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Think so? Cherche is pretty durable and 2RKO with a Brave Axe before one considers arm binds. She does have below average Luck which helps but even then that doesn't totally kill her damage and she does counter. And once the arm bind wears off Pugilist is pretty dead.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - Yeah there's no reason to believe Adachi is vulnerable to binds (and even if there were, they're inherently less accurate against FOEs/bosses ingame) so Pugilist is stuck being a pure physical slugger with unspecial damage.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad) - Danette's faster and has counters. Arm Bind's the only one that's particularly helpful here and that doesn't come out fast enough.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon) - Miranda really has issues putting people away with the transformed time she gets.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Bart (Xenogears) - Pugilist is very accurate indeed, and to me they're faster than Bart. And you can't have an evade game when your legs are broken.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Evade & Counter ruining gameplans yet again.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4) - Probably. Arm Bind won't land turn 1 by default, but I'd allow the +stat accessories which helps Pugilist's infliction rate (and drives down Crash's accuracy as a bonus). Does drop defense a bit but having your arms broken is pretty dang bad for your damage and Gryz isn't good enough to afford that.
Pugilist (EO5) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2) - Concussion is game.
I'm pretty sure I've been convinced to use the two-turn average for 8PT for reasons that I've forgotten.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - I think so? Tressa can't really get anything desicive off before Silent Lake goes up and Nash outslugs under that.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4) - Goes first, probably 3-2s because 8PT speed is actually worthless forever, and multihitting means she likely gets around Hang Tough.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Sidestep works well enough here to me.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - Crono 4HKOs with Luminaire through Rest and has a 4-3 turnsplit so he avoids Bifelgan's Bounty.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Tressa kind of needs Sidestep up at all times to not die horribly and even then needs for you to find it in your heart for it to void both brave swings. I don't, Cherche goes first because 8PT speed is completely worthless forever and again, has multiswinging to get around Hang Tough.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - Mudoon's turn 2 to me but that's good enough.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad)- Sidestep into Bifegan's Bounty claims a victim, I'm not sure what merchants would really correspond to but I'm not inclined to assume a favorable type match in Danette's favor.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon) - Rest and Sidestep make a mockery of Miranda forever don't they.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Bart (Xenogears) - Black Snake pretty much removes any argument Tressa had here.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Building for magic damage should let Bifelgan's Bounty kill without much of a fuss. What's Kimahri gonna do in the meanwhile? And Kimahri can't really do anything against wind magic.
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4) - More sidesteppin'
Tressa (Octopath) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2) - Hang Tough means Lemina doesn't 2HKO first, which means she dies to capitalism.
Umimaru has low 3HKO MP consuming physicals/melee counters and a low 2HKO ITE finisher. At least he's durable?
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - Not heal locked.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4)
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Sounds right.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - Luminaire just barely 4HKO's Umimaru's 1.7 mdur... except Umimaru has a red orb and lightning is considered green, which means it actually doesn't 4HKO. Oops. I GUESS if you wanted to argue that Luminaire corresponds to white instead this reverses but meh. Anyways Umimaru 4HKOs and Crono doesn't have a 5-3 here so yeah.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Better physical durability and notably more damaging.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - Honestly probably just outslugs.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad)
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon)
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Bart (Xenogears) - Super Umimaru Cannon -> Tera-Charge -> Super Umimaru Cannon puts an end to Bart's nonsense.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Unless I'm mistaken about Kimahri not having an OD he can win with here, the same strat should apply because I'm definitely not going to hype Lancet being worth a damn here.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4) - Umimaru has pretty unimpressive STR which apparently BROSE also checks. And yeah I'm not on board with Inorganic Body extending to instant death immunity.
Umimaru (Brigandine 2) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Nash Latkje (Suikoden 3) - Hilda didn't really need to be whiffing every other attack here.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Alena (Dragon Quest 4) - Maybe? Apocalyptic Flame does make it a bit interesting but it being OPB for me doesn't really make it interesting enough, and again Hilda does not need a significant percentage of her attacks to whiff.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) - And again.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Crono (Chrono Trigger) - Well at least MT can't double but Crono's durable enough to not be 2RKO'd even if all four brave axe swings connect and he's 3HKOing with Luminaire himself.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Cherche (Fire Emblem Awakening) - Superior brave axe game and QUICK BURN because again, Hilda accuracy sucks.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - Is Hilda innaccurate enough that Heat Riser might actually let Adachi stall for time for once?! Probably not with my overall low Adachi respect, and of course Heat Riser does nothing for status accuracy which probably means Hilda's weak magic evasion matters a bit too much.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Danette (Soul Nomad) - I'd tap the sign again but that probably doesn't matter here, Hilda has accuracy issues but she still 2RKOs on her own turns with a brave axe and unlike Panette she's not being doubled and Break isn't a thing here. Meanwhile Danette... 4HKOs Hilda's durability in melee and probably wants to avoid melee counters and so does worse in practice, assuming that would even work at all since I think that involves row switching nonsense which lol no so never mind! Also never mind whatever imapct Apocalyptic Flame has on the match.
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Miranda (Legend of Dragoon)
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Bart (Xenogears)
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Gryz (Phantasy Star 4)
Hilda (FE 3 Houses) vs. Lemina (Lunar 2)
this is a lot, rest later