The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: Nephrite on July 23, 2011, 11:37:03 PM
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Gilderoy/nya9ac-1.jpg)
"Some of you are just beginning your journey... while another may be very close to the end of theirs. Let us see what happens, shall we?
Team dude, REPENT, Nama and Sage vs. Dungeon
Link to the Dungeon Wiki! (http://rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php/Full_List_of_Dungeon_Participants)
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Team dude | Deis2, Emily, Jerin, Bowser, FFT Priest (Speed?)
[Floor 8: Maze of Trials]
[Priest granted Ribbon | Bowser granted Jinx Belt]
Team dude vs. Tidus (Caladbolg), Auron, Wakka, Kimahri, Lulu and Aeonless Yuna
Team dude vs. Zeromus, Exdeath and Kuja
*Full Heal
Team dude vs. Boss Timelord and Belial (No 4D Pocket)
Team dude vs. Indalecio (Upon defeat, is immediately replaced with Xorn)
*Full Heal
Team dude vs. Myria 1 (Upon defeat, is immediately replaced with Myria 3)
Team REPENT | LFT ZALMO (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4297.0.html), Geno, FF1 Knight, Lyn, Tia w/Body Charge
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team REPENT vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Team REPENT vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage and FF3DS White Mage
Team REPENT vs. Alma, Kresnik and Marco (RH)
Team REPENT vs. Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team REPENT vs. Golbez (DS), Cagnazzo (DS), Mist Dragon (DS) and Baigan (DS)
Team Nama | Rika, Celes, Lucian+Shiho, Rand (Life)
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Shoat Unicorn] Esper Guide (http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/554041-final-fantasy-iii/faqs/42224)
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Nama vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Team Nama vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage and FF3DS White Mage
Team Nama vs. Alma, Kresnik and Marco (RH)
Team Nama vs. Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team Nama vs. Golbez (DS), Cagnazzo (DS), Mist Dragon (DS) and Baigan (DS)
Team Sage | Demi, Princess Toadstool, Edgar(Speed?), Eiko, Ditto(Quick Powder)
[Floor 2a: Crumbling Ruins Investgation Squad]
Team Sage vs. Flay and Nikki
Team Sage vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team Sage vs. Opera and Ernest
Team Sage vs. Justin and Feena
Team Sage vs. Vyse and Aika
Speed? - The speed of the bearer is set to 120% average speed and may not be increased. The rest of the team is set to 95% of their normal speed (not set to 95% period) and may have their speed increased.
Body Charge - Increases the health, damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x.
Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.
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Nama and I both pass. Geno Boost+Lyn/Knight offense+good healing gets my team through, while Nama's gets by on Lucian smash on top of good healing. I'd need to look up stuff for Sage's team and hash out dude's matches as well.
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It was established this was boss Magus on Floor 3b, right? So no fast mass ID hype.
Otherwise, kneejerking pass on the floor 3 teams, though awaiting arguments. The scariest fight is Alma / Kresnik / Marco, since MT'd Trans-turn under Hasted' MBarrier becomes *insane* quickly. However, Kresnik has status holes, and if it's just Alma & Marco, that should be more survivable unless a team has no Sleep resistance. Magus / Dalton is pretty funny, but that's basically about buffing enough to OHKO or 2HKO Dalton so the team doesn't eat massive HP halving -> Magus damage.
I feel lazy about looking up the final fight, will let others hash out the basics on the FF4DS elements.
Team Sage... uh... should probably look up Demi again, but Justin / Feena looks scary since his team doesn't appear particularly fast. Don't they just blow Sage up with MT hype? They're both quite fast. H&E Cut + Time Stop + End of the World + more Feena MT pain = owowowow. And they're status immune so laugh off Edgar's Noiseblaster. Awaiting arguments as to what Team Sage offers for that fight, but kneejerking fail otherwise.
Team dude | Deis2, Emily, Jerin, Bowser, FFT Priest (Speed?)
[Floor 8: Maze of Trials]
[Priest granted Ribbon | Bowser granted Jinx Belt]
Team dude vs. Tidus (Caladbolg), Auron, Wakka, Kimahri, Lulu and Aeonless Yuna
Turn order is something like this:
Auron
Deis - Emily -Bowser - Jerin (?) - FFT Priest*
Yuna - Tidus - Wakka
Kimahri -Lulu
Auron Magic breaks Deis. Now Team dude must emit enough damage to kill basically all of Tidus, Wakka, and Lulu. If any of them lives horrible horrible things happen. Tidus is also perfectly evasive and Lulu damn near so. Lulu also absobrs both Fire and Ice rendering Jerin useless at killing her. I guess that means Emily is charged with killing Wakka, but Wakka is reasonably tanky. Only thing I can see as possibly killing Lulu is Deis2's Death. If that misses, that's just game right there. Let's say it hits. Emily and Bowser combined... can they kill Wakka? Dunno, though Bowser was buffed. Let's again hand out a judgment call and say yes. FFT Priest has Holy, except FFT Priest is kind of outright bad by aftergame due to FFT magic charge times being static and character speed continuing to increase. Jerin & FFT Priest can't kill Tidus, so, uh, Confuse hype? And FFT Priest can try for Protect/Shell, maybe? (Think Confuseward is common and Tidus has that as an option anyway.)
Anyway. This leaves Tidus alive, which is a Bad Thing. Yuna full-lifes Lulu. Tidus Slowgas. (Alternatively, if Priest tried to charge a Holy, just kill her with buffed Quick Hits first.) Kimahri beats down Jerin? Auron can either Magic Break Jerin or start using Zombie Attack. Yuna full-lifes Wakka. Tidus Hastegas. Team dude gets another go, but they haven't actually made any progress in killing and are Slowga'd and FFX is Hastega'd and oh god. Even a Jerin-Confuse'd Tidus would only have meant Yuna taps Tidus before he goes anyway and there'd be one less revival from Yuna wasting her turn, and as noted Tidus can grab Confuseward.
So yeah. Inclined to vote for the Dungeon at the moment, but awaiting arguments.
Team dude vs. Zeromus, Exdeath and Kuja
*Full Heal
Team dude vs. Boss Timelord and Belial (No 4D Pocket)
Brief comment from chat: TimeLord's limit is initiative, so I'd definitely not let him switch into as soon as his HP crosses the <50% mark, same as not letting Enrique suddenly do Justice Shield if he somehow gets enough SP to do it after a turn has already started. So Team dude just has to blitz him down either on turn 1, or let him enter turn 2 with >50% health then blitz him. Anyway, this fight looks eminently winnable by dude's team - buff Emily's attack, let her smash TimeLord, heal off Belial's assault.
Team dude vs. Indalecio (Upon defeat, is immediately replaced with Xorn)
Xorn is not really any good in the Dungeon. Indy has problems without support. FFT Priest sets up SHell before activating Time of Trial, they tank an Earthquake and blitz Indy out. Then Xorn comes, they buff some more before he gets his good moves (including his anti-buff move), then blitz him out too.
*Full Heal
Team dude vs. Myria 1 (Upon defeat, is immediately replaced with Myria 3)
Should not be hard to blitz out Myria 3, and Myria1's damage is just kinda sad vs. Agni durability.
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Otherwise, kneejerking pass on the floor 3 teams, though awaiting arguments. The scariest fight is Alma / Kresnik / Marco, since MT'd Trans-turn under Hasted' MBarrier becomes *insane* quickly. However, Kresnik has status holes, and if it's just Alma & Marco, that should be more survivable unless a team has no Sleep resistance.
In neither case is Marco seeing a turn. Being below average speed and durability sort of does that to a guy.
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Edit: Yeah, it seems like Sage doesn't have a lot he can do against Justin/Feena. Fail for team sage, pass for others.
Assuming default equips for FFX fight because otherwise this fight is too complex to deal with. Lulu and Yuna have to go for the team to make any progress. Deis 2 ID's Lulu, and Bowser, Jerin and Emily try to take out Yuna. Yuna's evasive, but Emily is very slightly above average accuracy and the way Suikoden 3 physicals work means it isn't all or nothing. Bowser Terrorizes the enemies and Jerin uses her Ice attack. If that's enough the fight still isn't in the bag, but it's a lot more manageable. Tidus drops Slow/Haste but Deis and Emily should still be get their second turn before the FFXers get their second due to accumulated speed. I'm not sure what the result of this fight is honestly. Even assuming default equips theres a ton of stuff that can happen on both sides. Jerin has confuse which is accurate enough to hit about half, but who does it hit? Each combination could cause a different result. There's also the possibility that Deis and Emily insta double Lulu, but how much help would that end up being with Wakka able to status them? What stuff does Mirror catch and what about Reraise Shenanigans? Going to abstain on this fight, just too many variables that could go either way.
Edit: Forgot that Priest is faster than Tidus now that she has Speed? Terrorize damage + Fear boosted Holy should be enough to take out Tidus. So Deis IDs Lulu, Emily+Bowser+Jerin might be able to take out Yuna and Bowser+Jerin+ Priest should be able to take out Tidus. Tentative pass for now.
Assuming they do get control of the fight the rest of the floor isn't bad. They can use Khimari to heal up for the next fight and get everyone back on their feet. Kuja and Exdeath have hideous durability and get blown up. Zeromus isn't scary by himself.
Deis and Emily smash Belial and she's down before Timelord even gets a turn. Attack Up ensures that overdrive isn't seen. Similar situation for Indy. Jerin laughs at his damage with Valor and they smash him down before Time of Truth and Xorn finds himself up against a fully buffed party.
Myria just isn't threatening enough by herself to take out the team.
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Justin for being anything but below average speed hype makes me sad.
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As a reminder, Tidus and Wakka both have Evade and Counter. Oh and Kimahri too but who cares about him. Oh I also forgot Rikku... oh well no one cares about Rikku either.
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Since my ability to get through is seemingly borderline, I guess I'll go for a step-by-step playthrough.
Team Nama | Rika, Celes, Lucian+Shiho, Rand (Life)
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Shoat Unicorn]
Spells Known for Celes: Cure, Ice, Scan, Imp, Cure2, Regen, Antidote, Sleep, Mute, Fire, Slow, possible Ice2.
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Nama vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania - This should be fairly easy to deal with. Celes is still rated as just above-average SPD here, which gets her the first move on these guys. Status the whole bloody lot of them. Preferably with Imp. If nothing else, LUCIAN SMASH interp.
New Spell Learned: Bio.
Team Nama vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage and FF3DS White Mage - I checked these four. Not really so threatening--looking at how things fall here, all of them bar FFT Priest fall along the lines of Average to Below Average on speed, without stipulation for tiebreaks. And it's notable that Priest has just ENOUGH chargetime on her big spells to make it likely that Lucian and Shiho go beforehand and murderize the whole lot of them. If you do not take CTs against them, Priest is stuck with a frustrating dilemma, given that Rika at the very least has gotten a chance to go first and ID two of them--and if that's the case, Priest has to gear against ID. Leaving herself open to Celes' status (which WW has openings to based on the stat topic). Alternatively, Rika and Celes could open up with Doubleslash->Physical or Bio, likely putting the mages in a condition that means that Lucian might OHKO without Shiho's help. Or Celes could just throw out status herself...the big thing is that the only one who may get a chance to act is Priest. And in such a situation. Priest may just have trouble getting anything off before getting splortched or statused. Long story short, not worth thinking about, the healersquad dies.
Team Nama vs. Alma, Kresnik and Marco (RH) - This is the problem fight that everyone is iffy about; mind, for good reason. Should Alma and Kresnik get their buffs off, things get nasty. Fast.
One problem here. I fail to see how equipment optimizing should be remotely legal for Alma. You can't control her, can't swap her gear for the form that people take her at, the one that you can swap gear on is taken out of the party without any further fighting (and notably lacks the option of things like Thief Hats), and Equip Change is self-target only (and not available to her native class to begin with). What does this mean, really? Her speed's overrated. Vastly so. And she doesn't get a nifty Flash Hat either. Or really, anything other than what she starts the final battle with (mind, this includes status immunity). Even if you see her as going first, the speed difference is so small compared to average that it's not going to matter even given how short her MBarrier's chargetime is.
Even barring this, Rika is likely to go first. And naturally, Rika's got two options available. If she's not out of Eliminate by this fight, she can have that as a standing threat for Kresnik and possibly Marco. Failing that, Doubleslash is still quite respectable damage at this point. Celes may very likely go before Kresnik, and she's got more status available. Including stuff that Kresnik can't block(Imp!). Either way, Kresnik's nearly guaranteed to be taken out of the picture. And possibly Marco as well if you don't allow the storebought universal statusblocker to stack (or if it doesn't block ID.) That aside, I'm pretty certain that if Marco doesn't get enough of a speed bump (quite likely), the entire enemy team gets utterly slaughtered by Might Reinforce Lucian. ...as usual. If you don't see Marco as resisting enough of the status options here, the enemy team also ultimately loses. Given the conditions I see, I'm certain that
Team Nama vs. Magus and Dalton - Ah, Dalton. He of "I use gravity as a counter unless I'm taken to zero. In which case I burp on them instead." Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Might Reinforce Lucian might just crush him. Given, the real risk here may be of losing party members to several rapidly-accumulating hits. Magus 3HKOs with his damage (and is switching between Shadow and Lightning more than likely). Dalton's finisher is a 4HKO. Shiho might get killed in the ensuing counterage, but the rest of the party's got solid healing and a lingering PATK buff. At this point, just take it slow; smash in between healing, and so on, before going all-out when the barrier drops. At that point, Magus kind of dies quickly to an accumulated beatdown.
*Full Heal
Spells Learned: Break, Death, Remedy, Dispel, Safe, Shell.
Team Nama vs. Golbez (DS), Cagnazzo (DS), Mist Dragon (DS) and Baigan (DS) - FF4DS fight! ...and the entirety of the enemy side has shit speed aside from Golbez, whose speed is apparently wonky, and Baigan...who is Baigan, and his arms probably die from a single shot of Doubleslash given scaling. That aside, it might be worth it a bit to take a look at each of them.
Golbez: His spells miss a 2HKO by a decent margin. Furthermore, his HP isn't really that good. By the most generous measure, it's 0.93 PCHP. And that's before taking into account the pre-battle Rydia hit and so on. His speed...is apparently weird because FF4DS speed equations suck or some crap. Stat topic lists him as above-average on the stat, though. Absorbs FF4 elements aside from Holy, but Poison wasn't a proper element there, so Bio's still safe to use without being absorbed.
Mist Dragon: Slow. And is the Mist Dragon. Does 4HKO damage...but is shockingly durable, and has that annoying counterstance with a...3HKO counter. A defensive posture might be warranted here.
Cagnazzo: SLOW. The Mist Dragon beats his ass in a footrace. Hits hard, though, either with his physical or with the charged up killwave. Reasonably durable before the solid defense stats.
Baigan: Above-average speed. But frail. Arms probably get taken off before they can do anything, and he might get killed before he acts, depending on whether or not you see Celes going before him.
...but it's late, going to come back to this one. x_x
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Analysis time!
Team REPENT | LFT ZALMO, Geno, FF1 Knight, Lyn, Tia w/Body Charge
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team REPENT vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania - Smash.
Team REPENT vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage and FF3DS White Mage - More smash.
Team REPENT vs. Alma, Kresnik and Marco (RH) - Fake running off of Body Charge Tia's effective speed makes things comically trivial here to me. Beyond that, Kresnik is 101% turn speed, so I doubt his speed buff is going to be enough to tilt things, and even if it is, Zalmo immunes sleep so the enemy team is really struggling to put lasting hurt here, even with the evil of MBarrier and Trans-turn.
Team REPENT vs. Magus and Dalton - Easy enough with Zalmo/Tia healing.
*Full Heal
Team REPENT vs. Golbez (DS), Cagnazzo (DS), Mist Dragon (DS) and Baigan (DS)
Okay, first, a note:
Barrier Change: Makes Golbez absorb all FF4 Elements except one, which he becomes weak too. In game, he opens with this move after being hit with Mist Dragon, and will only use it when his weakness is applied through Magic. Make of this as you will.
I throw out plot bullshit like that so the only way Golbez is using Barrier Change is if I hit him with an element I don't have. The physical defense is considerable and Osmose is a point worthy of note, but I've just come off a full heal, it's not 100% to average MP, Tia and Zalmo don't fail at MP, I'm not using Geno's much outside of Boost and he outspeeds Golbez anyways. Baigan is a non-factor, Fake -> Geno Boost -> Lyn/Knight smash make sure of that. Cagnazzo's killwave is neutered by lightning magic so Tia has that covered and Slow... is not helping him at all with that. Silence counter worries me a bit, but by that time I think I've got the matter in hand.
Really, unless you don't allow TB speed buffing to take effect until after the affected have acted (which strikes me vaguely bad form to translate into a CTB system but whatever) I'm not sure how I have a problem here. You'd need to allow Alma to change equips and not enforce charge times to even argue a threat there.
Team Sage | Demi, Princess Toadstool, Edgar(Speed?), Eiko, Ditto(Quick Powder)
[Floor 2a: Crumbling Ruins Investgation Squad]
Team Sage vs. Flay and Nikki - Okay, Demi doesn't like the prospect of Raiden Charge so Flay has to go. On the other hand, Nikki has turn 2 ID off of good speed, and Aroma Material means Noiseblaster hype is out unless you don't let them block out-of-game status. Thinking team can manage this in the worst case but they're going to burn resources.
Team Sage vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WA1o) - Pretty sure WA1o could block confuse but apparently ACF can't! And Rudy offense is manageable.
Team Sage vs. Opera and Ernest - Yar.
Team Sage vs. Justin and Feena - More confusion blocking, yay. On the other hand Justin speed hype what the fuck and Time Gate doesn't come out fast, and Feena's own speed isn't particularly outstanding. So then it becomes a question of whether or not the team can take out Feena before Time Gate goes off. I... am honestly unsure of this, though how bad this actually is depends on how good ZapWhip's coverage was and I honestly can't remember it for the life of me. Yeeaaah, headache, going to abstain.
Team Sage vs. Vyse and Aika
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Okay, checked our two differing stat topics and reminded myself that Justin's speed is only really hyped in one of them. That said, somewhat like FF4, I'd want to at least somewhat think about the full cast in the averages, and Milda / Sue/ Guido are all slugs, while Gadwin is middling speed. This makes the main cast happy. Any attempt to make a mathematical average is chancy at best due to equipment issues, but eh. Even a somewhat fast Justin seems scary enough. So call that a dungeon vote against Team Sage for now, pending a plan for how they take that fight. (Also, I recall Feena's Whip specials hitting a big area - not full MT, but pretty large. Would maybe hit half Sage's team? Probably still enough... alternatively she can equip a Dagger and spam her weaker Dagger special that is full MT.)
For Team Nama, actually, decent point that Alma really wants to juggle equipment for speed boosting. It doesn't matter once MBarrier / Adrenaline Boost go down, but could help as far as the quickdraw. Didn't FFT Shell reduce status hit-rate? Regardless, ID from Rika and Imp from Celes should get through, and once it's down to two characters the fight is more controllable, especially with Lucian damage forcing Marco to waste turns on Super Heal rather than something more effective. And yeah, Lucian should be able to blast through Dalton on second thought. So I'll vote Team Nama vs. Dungeon.
For Team Dude... hmm. Noted it in chat, but the asterisk about Priest killing Terrorized Tidus with Holy is ignoring charge times. And Wakka has E&C too? Forgot that... hmm. On the other hand, Jerin's Confuse is MT, which I didn't know. Yuna can't block Ice anyway and equips Confuseward to discourage a Confuse play. That really does leave killing Yuna fast through her evasion, and then eating a Wakka turn. Still, unfortunately for Team Dude, I think Emily hits before Bowser, so no Terrorize boosting damage, and no buffing from busy other people.
So Deis deaths Lulu, Emily thwacks Yuna, Jerin Glaciers everyone for meh damage, Bowser / Priest beatdown? Sure, 4 different people hitting probably breaks the evasion, and Jerin's damage goes through no matter what. So dead Lulu and dead Yuna. Tidus Slowgas, Wakka... never mind Triple Foul, he just Osmoses away all Deis2's MP. Kimahri & Auron hit someone, but now the team is reliant entirely on Jerin / Priest to damage the E&C Wakka, and they've been Slowga'd. Wakka uses Osmose some more and that's game. Even if the team somehow survives the fight, even one Osmose resolving takes Deis2 basically out of the next fight, which will be way more rough. Yeah. I think even with instant Holies, and Emily getting lucky and killing Yuna through evasion - let's say Terrorize resolved first - fine, Tidus is dead, Wakka still gets a turn, so Deis2 (or possibly Jerin) will be MPless for Zeromus / Exdeath / Kuja. So a vote for the Dungeon vs. team dude.
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Bullshit on Deis's MP being entirely sapped by one use of Osmose. She's got a ton of it, and IIRC Osmose hits MDef, which she also has a lot of.
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Keep in mind that Osmose is also doing half of what it normally does due to Terrorize. Ran some calcs and assuming that 3/8s of Emily's hits connect, Yuna is taken out by Emily hits, Bowser Terrorize damage and a Fear boosted Glacier. As Super mentioned, Osmose doesn't take out all of Deis's mp in one go and with Fear he doesn't even 2HKO it.
So as far as I see it, in the first turn Emily hits Yuna for solid damage, Deis IDs Lulu, Bowser uses Terrorize, Priest takes out Tidus with boosted Holy, and Jerin finishes off Yuna with boosted Glacier. Wakka will get a turn but if he tries to reduce someone's mp then he gets IDed the next turn and if he tries to status Deis, then the rest of the team goes to work on him while she Sheds away the status. Also, if you see Deis as insta doubling Lulu (not unrealistic Deis is 160%ish with Speed? and Lulu is 70%) then the fight is easier because Deis can ID Wakka, taking him out immediately.
Also, even if the team has taken some mp damage, the next fights not that bad. Kuja and Xdeath are so frail the team can take them out with physicals and whoever has mp left can keep them afloat long enough to take out Zeromus.
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I think it's a bit of a stretch to see Terrorize working on Osmose, myself. I'll ask NEB to speak more specifically on the mechanics behind the spell though since I think he'd be the go-to person on it.
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I don't know, Fear catches pretty much everything in game. Granted SMRPG doesn't have MP damage, but fear doesn't effect the enemies base stats. It halves damage inflicted to the opponent and increases damage taken by 150% which I would see working on Osmose.
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There's actually a very good analog to Fear/Boost in FFX; Shell/Magic Break. Like in SMRPG, they half damage, not stats. There's a pretty good argument for FFX overdrives ignoring fear, in fact, because they ignore Power/Magic Break.
On the other hand: Osmose, I am about 95% sure, is classed as magic and thus fully subject to Shell/Magic Break damage halving. So unless I am misremembering this factoid, I would strongly argue that Osmose is subject to Fear.
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NEB, Do you have any opinion as to how much damage (relatively) Osmose would do to Lulu? (DON'T FORGET LANCET!!!)
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Speeds turn 1
Deis: +1.45 SD (-5%)=115%
Emily: +1.98 SD (-5%)=123% (Looks like she would barely miss doubling Lulu at 25% SD)
Bowser= Uh...depends on if Jinx Belt is then included in the averages. 112%ish if yes, goes after Emily if so
Jerin: +1.37 SD (-5%)=115% (I know that Lufia had weird doubles or something, so you could argue that she's actually 120.2%)
Does Auron's Magic ruin any magic status accuracy in game? If so, something tells me that Deis' ID going to get a nasty impact. She won't be getting Lulu turn 1.
Emily tries to attack Yuna...I didn't realize this until now, but if Emily's overall speed is worse, it means she arguably also loses a swing. Yuna evades about 50% of the time. Crits...do less damage. Math headaches there!
Let's assume the best for Dude.
Auron magic breaks Deis, Emily hits Yuna, Bowser MT Fears and the damage finishes Yuna off, Deis I.D.s Lulu, Jerin MT s but likely fails to kill anything else (29% normally, boosted to 58% with Fear; And gets countered by Tidus and Kimahri; Everyone can halve or null though although Confuse is MT too). Fuck if I know on Priest (so has speed, but those CT s are mounting). Wakka can status whoever, Tidus can Slowga. Nows...if Deis is going to miss Lulu, she can MT (Is Flame the best? Only thing listed on rpgclassics at hitting all enemies that she learns. Wouldn't be surprised if that's half average after adjustements). Gut is that everyone but Yuna sees a turn. Yuna arguably beats all but Emily and Bowser...and honestly though, Emily and Bowser offing her in a turn is pushing it if Bowser wants the MT (and if don't, evade).
So...Wakka statuses whoever. Tidus Slowgas everyone (Unless Jerin wants to Mirror instead. Tidus can then Hastega. Lulu can ID Emily and then throw some hurt on whoever. I don't know, things don't look great here. The FFX team will then be fast and rather hard to damage. Dude's MT isn't high powered, although some people opting to block Confuse will help. Auron can keep throwing out breaks, Wakka can keep on statusing, Lulu has the damage and Tidus can then throw in Slowga to make things really insulting. With luck and the right turn order it could happen, but overall I'm not particularly seeing it. Even if they get through the battle, the FFX team will do their best to kill off Priest and Jerin and leave them reviver less for the next match. The next team isn't great, but half a team with no revival (And Bowser's tricks mostly out of play) doesn't work so well.
Dungeon vs Team Dude
As always, lol at Osmose doing anything offensively hype.
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NEB, Do you have any opinion as to how much damage (relatively) Osmose would do to Lulu? (DON'T FORGET LANCET!!!)
I assume you mean what it would do to Deis? Well, obviously opinions on MP damage may vary, but...
FFX MP damage average is (230+400)/2 = 315. So Osmose is 51% to average MP. Deis has 178% average MP and takes 84% damage from magic, so she takes 2.12x as much work to MP-kill. Each Osmose, thus, takes away just shy of a quarter oh her max AP (or just shy of one eighth after Terrorise). Remember, though Osmose does have a 1.5x recharge time so Wakka is fast if he starts spamming it (3 every 2 turns basically).
(If by some chance, you -did- mean to Lulu, then her MDef is quite a bit better and she is only six-shotted by Osmose; and unlike Deis you have to finish the job against her because of One MP Cost.)
[If you take Osmose's MP damage against the average FFX PC MP, then Osmose is a bit over 3x better than under the previous analysis. It now 2-shots Deis' MP solidly (three-shots after fear). I don't, but throwing it out there for those who do.]
[If you are Dhyer you ignore this entire post and go back to critiquing Lost Odyssey character designs.]
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I did indeed mean Deis, thank you sir.
As I typed that I typed Lulu, by the way.
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Dhyer: I asked in chat awhile back, and DHE said that Magic Break strictly halved damage / healing I believe. So it probably doesn't affect status hit rates.
Re Terrorize and Osmose: Okay, I'm fine with no Osmose hype. I'm not sure it matters, though; there's still Triple Foul. Wakka Triple Fouls Deis, Tidus still gets a turn, and things go downhill from there since Deis can't help finish off Wakka. It might help dude's interp, though, since if Yuna / Tidus are dead, then maybe Jerin & Priest can finish off Wakka before he gets a second turn? FFT Priest will be out of MP, though, and Jerin might die, so no Raise. That will make Fight 2 chancy. Also, Dhyer reminded me that Kim & Tidus both can have Magic Counter, which makes Jerin's Glacier painful and makes Jerin a good target for beatdown.
Re Lost Odyssey characters: The soldiers at the beginning wear really funny hats. Just sayin'.
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No Magic Break helps. Auron...doesn't have all that many targets otherwise. Emily and Power Break would be a target, but evasion. Magic Break Deis still isn't a horrid idea should to take a bite out of her damage though. I do think then Deis probably does get to ID Lulu, although if Yuna is alive (and I think has a decent chance to be to me) she'll just bring Lulu back.
And next analysis
Team Sage | Demi, Princess Toadstool, Edgar(Speed?), Eiko, Ditto(Quick Powder)
[Floor 2a: Crumbling Ruins Investgation Squad]
Team Sage vs. Flay and Nikki- Flay and Nikki both block Confusion, so Speed on Edgar isn't going to great effect here. The good news is that I think Demi is still above 100% speed even with the hit (Good base speed, and all that speed boosts aren't in the average when she joins. Although...you can argue the existence of Alys). I think Toadstool probably joins floor 3?, so we comes as is. I remember her badly lagging and then having great level ups? Eiko...can get Life at joining but doesn't start with it, IIRC? Which...the lack of revival might be a bit worrisome on the whole. We shall see. Damage...Demi has an unimpressive basic physical, Toadstool...ditto, Edgar is never great, and Eiko is okay (but MT!). Is there enough to knock Flay out on average before he Thunder charges and smacks? I'd doubting is a bit. Flay durability+Blocking should ruin that. How's Demi's Sleep early, eh?
Team Sage vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team Sage vs. Opera and Ernest- Not a problem unless they are pretty badly damaged.
Team Sage vs. Justin and Feena- Skip ahead and assume they get here in full. Zap Whip does get a hefty area, but Justin's MT...is not quick. Lack of damage on Sage's team may mean that Demi can get killed again I guess.
Team Sage vs. Vyse and Aika- Aika can Confuse Edgar and Vyse can off Demi assuming she has 1 HP. I could see worrisome things here.
Fail on Team Sage at the moment. I don't see any real strong arguments in the topic so far (One notes in match 1 that Flay has to go, but unless early PS 4 sleep is both accurate and great, I'm not sure how they can realistically stop him. There isn't really a damage source and Demi and Toadstool seem like they might be both very anemic on damage? Am I wrong there?).
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but unless early PS 4 sleep is both accurate and great, I'm not sure how they can realistically stop him. There isn't really a damage source and Demi and Toadstool seem like they might be both very anemic on damage? Am I wrong there?.
Early PS4 sleep tends to be fairly good as a short-term effect, all things said and done. Most of the ragging it receives isn't about effectiveness, but duration, which is more of a duel complaint; it tends to just last until the end of the round/target's turn. Moonshade and Bindwa can prove to be frustrating things in a team match by comparison.
You're right about Demi having some possible damage issues; unless you see Plate System opening around late Floor 2 somewhere, she's not going to have Phonomezer until about F3 or so, and thus gets overshadowed in the averages by Crosscut (be fair, everything's beaten by Crosscut or combination attacks, so it's probably not as bad as it'd seem). Toadstool, I've heard lack of damage is the norm for her.
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Eiko does get to start with Life for the dungeon I thought? Wasn't it part of her appeal in being a pick for early revival for a relatively low team spot cost? If she doesn't have Life for F1/F2 her worth drastically drops for people I suspect.
Edit: Yeah her default starting weapon - Golem's Flute has Auto Regen, Life and Cura. Unless people don't allow her to keep the skills =/
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Team Sage vs. Flay and Nikki- Nikki outspeeds all the girls. Nikki has 55%, 25% with turn 2 ID, or 45% MT with a Charge Time. Flay has 45% AoE or 25% time cards that act 4 times. Can boost 40% (or…about 2.38 against Demi). Well, looking at the damages, neither Flay nor Nikki can be removed before getting a turn. Demi’s durability is kind of average, so if they both get turns…MT Nikki + Boosted Flay TC that then and throw more damage around.
Team Sage vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team Sage vs. Opera and Ernest- Not a problem unless they are pretty badly damaged.
Team Sage vs. Justin and Feena- Feena can do about 80% to Demi and then hit most other for 33% at the same time. Feena should go after Demi/Edgar/Ditto. Justin can just OHKO Demi, and Feena may just use Tree of Life turn 1. Stalling is…legit here. They want to end this quickly, and that means MT (and Eiko’s reserves are not good going for damage, not going for damage means the fight will drag). If Demi tries to Sleep Justin, however, Feena has clear to until the TG beast. So regardless, Demi dies.
Team Sage vs. Vyse and Aika- Aika can Confuse Edgar and Vyse can off Demi assuming she has 1 HP. So…Eiko, Toadstool, Ditto. Eiko is most likely out of MP by now at least. Ditto can transform into Edgar, but of course then Aika will target him. Yeah, this fight doesn’t look good to me if Demi comes in at 1 HP, and Eiko is basically out of MP. This is turn is basically relying on Sleep being good enough in early rounds that Eiko doesn’t really need to use MP, and my gut is probably not? Back to fail.
Nama
Team Nama | Rika, Celes, Lucian+Shiho, Rand (Life)
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Shoat Unicorn] Esper Guide
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Nama vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania- Yeah, buff and smash works. At worst, Rika will have at least 2 shots of ID for the floor and that alone is enough here.
Team Nama vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage and FF3DS White Mage- Power Reinforce+Lucian+Celes is…easy.
Team Nama vs. Alma, Kresnik and Marco (RH)- Rika can ID two of them so…easy
Team Nama vs. Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team Nama vs. Golbez (DS), Cagnazzo (DS), Mist Dragon (DS) and Baigan (DS)
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Floor 3 teams PASS.
team dude gets a fail against the FFX team (or the following team if they manage to get even a string of luck and beat the FFX-ers)
team Sage falls to Flay damage ruining too much early on, although notably I allow dungeon Eiko to have the Life spell learned from floor 1.
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Teams Nama and Random pass easily :)
Teams Nama and Random vs Dungeon