Author Topic: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin  (Read 773 times)

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GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath)
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2)
X (MMX:CM) vs. Harken (WA:ACF)
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG)
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN)


LIGHT

Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2)
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Random Consonant

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2022, 02:06:01 AM »
GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT) - I guess...
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath) - Dark weakness.


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2) - Blocks ID, Naoto is now a terrible light.  butbut naoto immunes light!1!! 1) I don't give a rat's ass about P4's glorified ID immunity (now if we were talking about P5 that'd be another matter) and 2) Naoto's damage is so fucking bad even without Hassou Tobi shitting up the averages that Blessing of Light and Counter probably lets Raze outslug with the godly might of MK2 basic physicals anyways.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2) - Kneejerking that Ness is a bit too durable here. e: I guess she can put together enough damage after all.

MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1) - Hold.
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN) - Fire's bad here so Koro wants the ID which... ok I was underrating it a bit for all that I still have no respect for it.  (Maybe I shouldn't have voted Kazan over Koro?  Eh, wouldn't have mattered with that tally looks like.)  Anyways Greninja is faster to me (Koro actually is by raw SDs but yeaaaah not taking P3 "Minato goes first forever" SDs at face value here) and has a 3HKO but Hydro Pump accuracy against Koro evade is a bit sad, it's actually probably enough for the ID to be turn 3 or better since Greninja can't afford two misses then which... yeah honestly I'd make that call for the version that actually has Mudo Boost.
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG) - I've seen this match before.
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN) - So Empoleon doesn't have an evasion game or Sturdy.  Sword Dance to the rescue maybe?  Probably not, max attack Drill Peck doesn't OHKO PCHP under Gen4, let alone later gens which have higher damage averages and as murky as WA3 boss HP is at times there's a logical limit to how frail I can see RICHARD.

LIGHT

Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2) - In all likelyhood.
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 04:54:51 PM by Random Consonant »

superaielman

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2022, 02:02:13 PM »
GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT)- Ryu3 had some way to block MP damage, but I don't see it in the stat topic outside of dragon forms and the fight hinges entirely on that. Could be I'm missing a piece of gear- will change vote if so.
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2)- Riou needs a OHKO or near OHKO here and I don't think he gets it. Riou just has trouble doing any damage after Forgiver Sign.
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath)- As little as I respect Octopath bosses, silence being on dark elemental damage is too much. Mewtwo is not a godlike in FRLG.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)- Fly. Rudo is a Godlike entirely on the strength of being too obnoxious to take down in Heavy; he is rarely competitive in the division.


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2)- Naoto is pretty hopeless against any kind of ID blocker.
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)- Should have the offense to handle Margulis.


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)- Hold.



LIGHT

Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)- Has magic and doesn't care about the elemental defense. The first person to hype the blood spear here gets fired into the sun.
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)- My respect for Palmer's ability to avoid a limit is zero.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2022, 03:18:30 PM »

GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT): The MP-damage-blocker is the Force Armour, but Dhyer indicates it might not be legal due to cost? It probably is to me, but...
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2): Yeah Riou can get off Forgiver Sign and one berserked physical... maaaybe a second if he can squeeze out a doubleturn? But that's probably still not enough.
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath): RBY Mewtwo. I'm never sure if I see him weak to dark or not. If he's not, then he can just spam Amnesia and reduce Simeon's damage to a tickle; even if silence lands he can probably just hurl boosted Psychics from there and win (current opinion on Pokemon vs comprehensive silence is that it seals off non-damage moves; Psychic is essentially Mewtwo's "attack" command). If he is weak to dark, then there's a much higher chance he loses the slugfest. Hmm. Inclined to vote for Mewtwo because I think even in the second case I could still see Mewtwo winning.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)


HEAVY

X (MMX:CM) vs. Harken (WA:ACF): Think X does too much ITE damage once he gets rolling, and can back-end it to avoid Maximum Risk.
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY): Golbez 4HKOs Margulis (and not by much, so he can't save time with faster spells), but of course this happens at atrocious speed. Margulis (123% speed) should get off 7 turns before Flares (70%) can resolve. 7 Margulis turns is too much, since the last one will be a boosted double Rakta, which hurts.


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1): Hold and solid pdur.
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG): Probably.
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN): Trusting Random.


LIGHT

Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4): Natan is generically competent enough for this.
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7): Oh hey it's the exact type of opponent I'm inclined to give FF8 limits more credit against.

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Tide

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2022, 04:26:47 PM »
GODLIKE

Must defeat Sheng Long to get votes


HEAVY
Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2) - Oh hey, a 2013 RPG Tourney Rematch. Hard to believe we last saw this 10 years ago. I think I voted in Naoto's favor back then, but nowadays I don't think so. Since Naoto's Light Resist is so limited in what Light attacks it actually blocks (all ID) - functionally treating it as ID Immunity feels more in tune with actual practice, which makes this Raze's easily. The way I see it, either Naoto blocks Light, but doesn't have actual ID immunity, in which case Raze equips the ID weapon and casts Photo Silhouette OR she has ID immunity but not actual Light immunity, and thus loses because Naoto in a damage slugfest.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2) - Very strong kneejerk. If someone wants to Math out how much damage Millenia can do across 4 Spellbinding Eyes, I could see Random's argument. Otherwise, Ness goes first but can't capitalize to stop Millenia from getting a turn, then Millenia does Millenia things.
X (MMX:CM) vs. Harken (WA:ACF) - Pretty sure on this too. X doesn't have any issues with chipping thanks to his 2 lives, meaning he should be able to work around Maximum Risk via a high AT Nova Strike. Harken doesn't even have that much of a speed advantage either - Hyper Armor gives X ridiculous stat boosts, including speed.


MIDDLE
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN) - The arguments here are similar to that of Naoto vs Raze because Greninja has Dark Resistance. In his own game, when Koro runs into Dark Resist, it decreases the accuracy of his ID IIRC, so even if Greninja needs an extra turn due to a miss, he'll likely get it here. THAT SAID, since Mudoon is functionally ID, doesn't make a lot of sense to treat Greninja's Dark resist as ID resist since Pokemon DOES have abilities that interact directly with ID. As such - Greninja needs 3 turns, needs to land all 3 of his Hydro Pumps, and only a 51.2% chance of happening BEFORE evade. So, this is likely Doggo's.
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG) - Also a rematch (RPGDL 2019 Season 1). Stocke has a Fear Blocker so Bower's kinda screwed.
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN) - Yeah, even if you see Empoleon max buffing with Swords Dance (who knows how Misery interacts with Pokemon), I'm not sure it one shots and it kind of needs to. Rare footage of RICHARD carefully planning his backstabs.


LIGHT
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4) - Even if you are hyping BLOOD SPEAR, Natan can build stock and back end his damage that way to probably bust it. Kain's offense is really bad.
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7) - Palmer doesn't have any damage control. Seriously. He has three attacks which do all the same amount of damage. So unless he like 2HKO's (he doesn't), he's running straight into Limit Range. Pain ensues.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 04:36:12 PM by Tide »
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SnowFire

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2022, 01:21:58 AM »
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath)
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)
In vague fairness to Rudo, 1-range characters in Brig2 can mysteriously attack flyers like Fire Emblem, but that's because Brig2 flyers must have a 5-feet above the ground restriction or the like.

HEAVY

No votes, but Naoto in a damage slugfest is always amusing.

MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN)


LIGHT

Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Genis's physical beatdown is so nonexistent that Aika could even use Delta Shield spam strats if she wanted, not that it's needed.
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2022, 02:04:36 AM »
GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT)- Unless someone wants to remind me what's up with Force Armor
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2)- If Elf thinks Lamington has the HP for this welp.
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath)- I'm... sorta inclined to backport the Dark weakness to RBY Psychic but yeah, HP threshold boss against a buffing-oriented healer.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)- No vote.


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2)- There *is* a non-ID Light move in P4, but it's a gravity-type move from the final boss or some shit.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2)- Hashed this out in Discord actually, Millenia can get more turns under SBE than I thought if she's spamming slightly weaker (and therefor less CT-heavy) moves.
X (MMX:CM) vs. Harken (WA:ACF)
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)- Unless Golbez had a good Drain spell I'm forgetting.


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG)
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN)


LIGHT

Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2)
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)
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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2022, 10:45:25 PM »
GODLIKE

Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2)


HEAVY

Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2) - If Harken hadn't robbed Ness of his deserved win in round 1, he wouldn't be getting eliminated here.


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)


LIGHT

Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2)
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2022, 02:16:15 AM »
GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT)- Yeah, the core of my disallowance of Force Armor thing is just down to money. You have a limited amount of money at BoF3 considering how expensive the endgame equips are. I basically allowed everything else (even if frankly you wouldn't have the money to buy all of it) because all the other equips at least could be justified as a decent choice in game (Best weapons that aren't horrible to get, Best Helmets, Protectors for obvious reasons, Mind Shield for the best defense, Spiked Gauntlet for attack), while Force Armor (at least for Ryu) is a lot of money you need elsewhere for an effect that only very, very rarely comes up after it can be acquired. Ryu does have the Mind Shield to halve the hit rate, but that leaves it at 50% which hits to me (if...you even see if working. Truth be told, the effect is so useless in game that at this point, I'd see an MP Damage attack that can't really be stopped as getting past it anyways).
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2)- I see Lamington as about 2.3 PC HP, so Riou's 1.7 PC HP Forgiver Sign goes a long way, but not long enough.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2)- Yeah, I see Naoto blocking ID, not damage
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2)- If this was mathed out by others, happy to go with that.
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)- Golbez does make this closer because he can equip Fire res, but the ITE physical will be too much


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG)

LIGHT
Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2)
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)
...into the nightfall.

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2022, 04:06:53 PM »
GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT): Defense and MP means he gets the turn he needs to paste Cid?
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2):
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Simeon (Octopath)
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2)
X (MMX:CM) vs. Harken (WA:ACF)
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG)
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) vs Empoleon (PKMN)


LIGHT

Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2)
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2022, 08:24:31 PM »
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7): Limit

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2022, 10:29:27 PM »
Quote
Yeah, the core of my disallowance of Force Armor thing is just down to money. You have a limited amount of money at BoF3 considering how expensive the endgame equips are. I basically allowed everything else (even if frankly you wouldn't have the money to buy all of it) because all the other equips at least could be justified as a decent choice in game (Best weapons that aren't horrible to get, Best Helmets, Protectors for obvious reasons, Mind Shield for the best defense, Spiked Gauntlet for attack), while Force Armor (at least for Ryu) is a lot of money you need elsewhere for an effect that only very, very rarely comes up after it can be acquired. Ryu does have the Mind Shield to halve the hit rate, but that leaves it at 50% which hits to me (if...you even see if working. Truth be told, the effect is so useless in game that at this point, I'd see an MP Damage attack that can't really be stopped as getting past it anyways).

To be fair, if we're talking about what's useful in-game, I would say that Cid wouldn't even learn Dark Sword.

As such, I'm a bit leery about tossing out equipment (or skills) just because they're not seen as that useful in-game. I guess the key is... if we give every character a budget, what would they spend it on? I feel like MP busting is a concern for Ryu in the DL (and if enemies used it more in-game then blocking it would be useful in-game, too!) so Force Armour is certainly something he should at least consider buying. But it depends on what you set the budget at exactly. (And I'm far too lazy to go do it myself right at the moment, so my vote will remain as an abstain.)

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074

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Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2022, 02:09:26 AM »
Match Results

GODLIKE
Ryu (BoF3) ||[TIEBREAKER] vs. Orlandu (FFT) ||
Lamington (Disgaea) |||||| vs. Riou (S2)
Mewtwo (PKMN) || vs. Simeon (Octopath) |||
Sephiroth (FF7) |||| vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)


HEAVY
Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2) ||||||
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2) ||||||
X (MMX:CM) ||| vs. Harken (WA:ACF)
Margulis (XS2) ||| vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY) |


MIDDLE
Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1) ||||||||
Koromaru (P3) |||| vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Stocke (RH) ||||| vs. Bowser (SMRPG) |
CHAMELEON MAN (WA3) |||||| vs Empoleon (PKMN)


LIGHT
Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2) |||||
Natan (SH3) ||||||||| vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA) |||||
Zell Dincht (FF8) ||||||||| vs. Palmer (FF7)
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.