Meeple Fantasy 6

[Dark Holy Elf]

Late, but just wanted to chime in that I think it is super-awesome that you are working on sprites for this, Djinn. Not that Meeple's were bad, per se (better than what I could do!) but there's still clear room for improvement and getting someone with your artistic talent in on it is, I think, a great idea for making an already impressive overall hack appear more polished and professional.

[Luther Lansfeld]

^^^

I pretty much agree with this. The Laharl one is fabulous.

[Meeplelard]

Sprite work is appreciated, but you better NOT TOUCH LINA if you actually want me to "officialize" it (unless its genuinely improving her, though I don't think there's a lot of room for improvement on Lina?  She was one of the less awkward ones.) 

(IOWs, no, not Millenia.  Give up on getting her in any form of MF6; once you replace Lina with someone else, its not MF6 <_<)

[DjinnAndTonic]

I will NEVER give up! MWAHAHAHAHA!!

But yeah, Lina's sprite is probably your best one. Don't worry, conveniently I've been making sure to keep in mind which PC sprites use which palettes when it comes to changing any colors around. Hopefully this doesn't mess things up.

[Meeplelard]

You should be able to keep characters with their current palettes fine.  Only Ginny and Vyse, for other reasons, are going to have screw ups in game (they'll randomly swap between the Palette I want and the one Relm/Setzer initially had; battles work fine, on map works fine if you get them in a fresh save (as in, if you patch a game with save files, and open an old save, it won't work), the Party Screens, however, are not fine, and I can't seem to figure out how to change those.  Oh, some plot scenes involve some screw ups due to the "Use Character Model vs. Use an NPC 'clone' which FF6 is completely arbitrary about deciding who is used where.)

I'm pretty sure...Jelze aside who was a 100% "I don't give a shit, and no one else does, cause he's a fucking Umaro clone" thus doesn't count, that the general coloring for each of the 13 characters is fine.  I mean, yeah, Lina's hair is a little off, but that's cause changing that = loss of much needed brown in other characters, and I figured "Brown Haired Lina isn't less big deal than fucking with characters like Ryu", so it was the best option.  Its mostly stuff like "Capes are ugly" or, ewll, your avatar portrays Laharl's problems (and glancing at it, looks like Laharl needed 0 color changes, just more detail.)

So yeah, I think its just best to avoid changing colors.  If you want, you can play around with the colors and offer suggestions (even go as far as to say the exact "dimensions" of the colors), and I can play around myself and see if I agree, but don't get too bold.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Laharl has an extra shade of dark red in his palette to make his clothes look not-crappy (very important with the amount of detail I added to it). It replaced an extra shade of green/grey that literally none of the other PCs on the palette were using, so I think it's a safe change.

I'm hoping to add an extra shade of Purple to Tir/Virginia's palette (there's plenty of unused colors on that one, it seems?) to add some depth there, but apart from that, the only big color changes I made were for Millenia, which only effects MF6:ME anyway (That's MF6:Millenia Edition, obviously ).

There shouldn't be any other palette changes necessary, though I have yet to go through and add all the color depth changes I'd like to make (The Rolf/Fayt palette has enough blues that I should be okay, though I'm a bit concerned about Ike's cape since I think there's only one shade of red there).

Looking at the tileset sprite editor, it looks like there's more sprites using the same palettes than I had realized. The NPCs are all using the same palettes, it seems?

Is there anyway to get the tilesets of all the sprites out of the tileset editor (so that I can edit them properly with Paint/Adobe?) and then imported back in? The tileset editor is far more flexible about what sprites I can edit and how I can rearrange palettes than the spriteeditor (the one that only seems to allow me to edit the PC sprites... and even then, it misses some of their sprites *grumbles*)

Double-checking one more time that this is the most recent version of MF6, because I don't want to do all this palette-rearranging/sprite-editing and then send you a copy of the game without all your most current revisions.

[Meeplelard]

You do remember that the last 4 colors on a given palette are to be avoided when possible, right?  They don't work 100% properly, and it leads to some bad scenarios, and best used only for minor details on a character, and even then, the things can stand out (Yuri's eyes/shirt come to mind; when the game decides to change the color to something like bright yellow, it really standsout.)

Edit: And no, there's...really no way to do that.  Well, there kind of is a way, but its dangerous, risky, and usually ends up fucking around with everything but the one thing you worked with.  Its not worth the effort, IOWs.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that all the colors were used for Ginny/Tir, considering Ike is in the same palette, and he has a lot of different colors than those two.  Again, if you have to go into the last 4 colors in the palette, I urge you to NOT do that; I've already played around with them on a few characters like Yuri, and again, its dealt some bad results.

Also, no, I refuse to let anything that puts Millennia in over the 14 designated MF6 characters "MF6"; I don't care what subtitle you add it in, if its not Meeple Approved, its not MF6 <_<

Edit the 2nd: Actually, it might be easier to discuss this stuff first hand through actual conversation, rather than the forums.  I don't care if its IRC PMs, AIM, MSN or Skype, just something that would allow back and forth conversations so we can insure we're on the same page!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Really? I didn't know that about the last 4 colors of the palette... that's pretty weird...

Now I have to wonder if the Laharl sprite will even work... There might not be enough colors...

I was under the impression I have 16 colors to work with... but 12 is a bit more constraining. Not to mention needing a transparent color, too... *grumblemutter*

I've already made the Laharl sprite, is there anything you can do about adding the dark red color to the palette?

The Millenia sprite requires too many extra colors to work anyway.

 ;DI still won't give up - How about an Esper Millenia?! I can draw the sprite, of course. Could replace... Asellus? Or one of the thousands of Pokemon espers... >.>;;

Also... I wish I could talk to you more easily, but until I actually get both internet in my home and a day off to be awake at the same time as you, there's really no chance of setting up a real-time conversation.

Also, once I get those things, I suspect I'll be distracted by internet things and stop working on sprites all the time... >.>;;

I'll still check the Ike/Tir/Ginny palette to see if there's a potential spot for a dark purple...

[Meeplelard]

FINALLY updated the game!  Basically, a few new enemies changed, tossed in the updated look of Laharl, some minor text shenanigans, etc.  Note only the patch is up; prepatched rom is still unupdated and I'll work on that some time!  Just thought I'd say ths and such.

To Djinn: No, this isn't a "STOP WORKING ON THE ROM!", thing, I just felt an update was necessary now.  I still plan on using your updated sprites when you finish those in the future, and will have an update with them at some point.  So don't worry, not that I expected you too <_<

Edit: Oh, character rebalancing too.  Specifically, Yuri got boosted a bit (ultimate weapon got better) and Lina got a pretty significant nerfing that makes her not suddenly obsolete half the cast.

[Meeplelard]

A lot of equips in MF6 have hidden factors that I can't fit into the item description and can't be looked up.  This was always the case in FF6, except most equipment didn't get as complex as the shit in this game, so a simple item description was often all that's needed...not the case in MF6 however, so something like this is required:

If an item has a trait not listed here, its cause it can be found in game, either through its description or through the equipment stats.  Items listed on Item Value, hence the "random" order; just Ctrl+F an item (I listed items in their full name and their in game name (if different) for convenience) if you want to see if it has a hidden effect; if an item is not on the list at all, assume its effects are all public (either via item description or can be checked on the items stats by selecting the equipment in the Item menu.)

Note that many (but not all) "unique" weapons are used by Laharl too, so if a weapon is Character/Laharl, its still "unique."

Weapon effects function like FF6 variants, unless specified otherwise, eg. "Random Casts" is still 25%, "Counter Attack" is identical to Black Belt etc.

All Rolf Uniques give +25% HP
All Fayt Uniques give +25% HP
All Tir uniques give +25% HP
All Ryu uniques give +25% HP and Counter
All Yuri uniques give +25% HP
All Shady weapons offer no HP Boost
Ginny's 2 Guns give no HP Boost
All other Weapons give +12.5% HP
NOTE: Naturally, there's an implied "unless specified otherwise" for the above.

Levantine: Random Casts Fire 3, Ignores Defense
Silver Sword: Counter
Rekscalibur: Randomly casts Black Shadow
Silvance: Teaches Divine Blade x2
Dragon Blade: X-magic, Magic Cost Half, MP Criticals
Divine Avenger (DivineAvengr): MP Criticals, randomly casts Ethereal Blast, teaches Etheral Blast x1, Enhanced Jump
Apocalypse: Randomly casts Dark Holy, MP Criticals, 255% Hit rate, teaches Ultima x1, Ignores Row
Golden Lion: Random "Slicing" instant death, Counters, randomly casts "Muddle"
Azelf Weapon: Auto Haste, Atma Weapon Effect
Beast Spear: +25% HP, Atlas Armlet Effect, Auto Siezure
Gungnir: +12.5% HP, Earrings Effect, Turns Fight to Jump, randomly casts "Tandle", 255% Hit
Onion Armor: Grants immunity to Poison and Imp
Bantorain93r: Halves MP Cost, Genji Glove effect, ignores Row, teaches Shield x10
Holy Sword: Teaches Divine Blade x3
Soul Eater: Earrings Effect, +12.5% MP, Instant Death immunity
Elysdeon: Offering Effect, Auto Safe, Gauntlet effect
Regal Sword: Counter Attack
Ragnell: +25% HP, Auto Safe, Hawkeye effect (random Throw for extra damage), Counter Attack, randomly casts Drain, ignores Row
Sky Fang: MP Criticals
Ranger Blade: Teaches Ogre Slice x15
Ruby Maser: Randomly casts "Fire 2", teaches Crimson Raid x12
Sapphire Master (SapphireMasr): Randomly casts "Ice 2", teaches Death Bringerx10
Plasma Maser: Randomly casts "Tandle", teaches Discharge x10
Gorun Nova: MP Criticals, randomly casts "Tyranitar", halves MP cost, raises Pre-Emptive Attack rate, No Back/Pincer Attacks, raises Steal rate, Sprint Shoes effect, doubles GP gained
Masamune: Teaches Tera Break x10, raises Pre-emptive Attack rate
Violet Blade: MP Criticals
Love Charm: +12.5% HP, +12.5% MP
Glance Reviver (GlanceRevivr): MP Criticals, Hero Ring effect, Counter, randomly casts "Osmose"*, teaches Nibelung Valesti 3 x1
Simple Sword: Teaches Divine Blade x1
Long Sword: Teaches Divine Blade x2
Rapier EZ: Teaches Protect x5, Halves MP Cost, Genji Glove effect, ignores Row, Valiant Knife effect (includes Defense Ignoring),
Broad Sword: Teaches Divine Blade x4
Veinslay: Teaches Divine Blade x5
Soul Sword: Ignores Row**
Wolf Fang Staff (WolfFangStff): Ignores Row
Heaven Fang Staff (HeavenFangSt): Counter, Ignores Row
Flamberge: Offering Effect
Diabolic Sword: Man Eater effect, Offering Effect, Gauntlet Effect
Last Fencer: +25% HP, Auto Regen, ignores Row
Falcon Punch: SOS Safe, SOS Shell, Earrings Effect, Auto Float
Regirock Block (RegirockBlck): SOS Safe, Blind Immunity, Auto Cover,
Regice Shield (RegiceShield): SOS Shell, Blind Immunity, Instant Death Immunity, Berserk Immunity, Sleep Immunity
Registeel Guard (RegisteelGrd): Blind Immunity, Poison Immunity
Arredoval: Auto Float
Stan's Shield: Auto Condemn, Auto Mute, Auto Muddle, Auto Berserk, Auto Seizure
Splinter Helm (SplinterHelm): +12.5% MP (just specifying for sake of stackability)
Judge Helmet: +25% HP (see above)
Captain's Hat (Captain'sHat): Atlas Armlet effect, Counter
Prism Crown: SOS Safe, SOS Shell, Auto Regen
Dragon Helm: Grants Immunity to following status: Blind, Zombie, Poison, Imp, Petrify, Instant Death, Mute, Berserk, Muddle, Sleep
Drifter's Coat (DriftersCoat): Offering Effect, doubles GP gained
Minerva: +25% MP, X-magic
Radiant Garb: Halves MP Cost
Quantum Cape: Auto Float
Seraphic Garb (SeraphicGarb): 1 MP Cost
Life Armor: HP Stroll, Immunity to Seizure
Aqua Wisp: Earrings Effect, +12.5% HP,
Firery Rage: Atlas Armlet Effect, Poison Immunity
Terra Roar: +12.5% HP
Bolt Materia: +12.5% MP
Ice Materia: +12.5% MP
Fire Materia: +12.5% MP
Gale Claw: Auto Haste, Counter
Vaynard SKirt (VaynardSkirt): Blind Immunity
Clive's Specs (Clive'sSpecs): Atlas Armlet effect
Drakkhen Tear (DrakkhenTear): Auto Condemn, Sprint Shoes effect
Fake Egg Ring (FakeEggRing): Allows for "Storm" spell
Hurly Glove: Allows for "Character Toss"
Buster Glove: Auto Regen, Auto Cover, SOS Safe, SOS Shell, Half MP Cost, Raises Pre-emptive attack, No Back/Pincer Attacks,
Joachim Belt: +50% HP (listed for stacking purposes)
Youthful Spirit (YouthfulSprt): Auto Regen, Sprint Shoes effect
COsmic Cog: Instant Death immunity, SOS Safe, turns "Steal" into "Capture", No Back/Pincer Attacks
Tyrant Fist: Atlas Armlet Effect***
Moon Spark: Sleep Immunity,
Cai's Book: Earrings Effect
Lance's Crown: +50% HP, Counters,
Dragon Orb: Halves MP Cost, Earrings Effect, +50% MP, grants immunity to Zombie, INstant Death, and Petrify, Auto Float
Dryst's Hat: Lowers Encounter Rate, Sprint Shoes effect, +25% HP, +25% MP, Auto Regen, Raises Pre-emptive ATtack
Quartz Charm: Auto Safe, Auto Shell, Raises Steal Success Rate
Lyonese Flail (LyoneseFlail): Atlas ARmlet Effect, +25% MP,
Flash Hit: +12.5% HP
Cardboard Box (CardboardBox): Auto Berserk, Auto Muddle
Ivory Charm: Auto Regen, Grants Immunity to Following: Blind, Zombie, Poison, Imp, Petrify, Instant Death, Condemned, Mute, Berserk, Muddle Siezure, Sleep
Hammer: Its the Back Guard
Cure Materia: +12.5% MP
Cupid's Lyre: Auto Regen, Siezure Immunity

*Osmose in this game is an HP Drain move that has 100% Instant Death attached; fails against those immune.  There is no access to this move other than through random spell casting so I didn't bother changing its name.
**These are not intended and will likely be removed in a later update
***Likely to change to Hyper Wrist effect in future

Level up Chart, cause its different than in FF6!

Terra:
Level 1 - Cure
Level 3 - Fire
Level 6 - Antdt
Level 8 - Ice
Level 12 - Drain
Level 18 - Life
Level 19 - Fire 2
Level 20 - Break
Level 28 - Heal
Level 32 - Holy
Level 33 - Life 2
Level 34 - Fire 3
Level 36 - Ice 3
Level 40 - Quartr
Level 50 - Merton
Level 98 - Ultima

Note: A few of these spells can be learned through various equips.

Lenneth:
Level 1 - Nibelung Valesti
Level 4 - Analyze
Level 9 - Shield
Level 12 - Protect
Level 18 - Life
Level 20 - Nibelung Valesti 2
Level 22 - Heal
Level 29 - Remedy
Level 33 - Mute
Level 45 - Reflect
Level 51 - Nibelung Valesti 3

Note: A few of these spells can be taught via equips.

Yuri:
Level 10 - Die Scumbag!
Level 12 - Demon Rays
Level 13 - The End!
Level 15 - Hell Fire
Level 30 - For Tommorrow
Level 39 - Revive
Level 45 - For Everyone
Level 70 - For The Child (can be gotten via Plot sequence)

Vyse:
Level 1 - Incremes
Level 6 - Counter Stance
Level 12 - Pyres
Level 15 - Cutlass Fury
Level 24 - Skull Shield
Level 30 - Rain of Swords
Level 35 - Pirate's Wrath
Level 40 - Blue Rogues

NOTE: he's intended to get all these by the Falcon, but for some reason the Plot Trigger doesn't work right; I think he still gets them when Cyan would learn all his sword techs.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Djinn, the Tir sprite is really great. I thought Meeple did a fine job with it, I like a lot of his sprites in fact, but Laharl and Tir are very awesome.

Meeple, so you and I talked yesterday about nerfing the defend Bacon portion of the game, and I played it over and I think it may be a little overnerfed. The Daien Soldiers feel outright bad now; you reduced their damage and took their counters? Maybe just reduce their damage and keep the counters or something, but right now they don't feel potent at all. As for Kefka himself, you basically just replaced Petrify with Ice? I was thinking maybe you could throw in something like Drain instead, because Drain is 2HKO damage not (whatever Ice is) and it makes him bitchier to kill to boot. The spamming Petrify was just x.x but Ice seems a little too wussy.

[Meeplelard]

An idea has arrived to get more DLers into the game!

I have 10 "Shady" that retain their original names.  These are generic PCs who are place hodlers and...you know how they work.  Anyway, I can change their names!  I figured why not name them after random DLers?  

Note that if you're already in the Helpers Room, you cannot participate in this; I am not giving multiple nods to a single DLer (with...some very few potential exceptions, namely people who helped out IMMENSELY on this.  You know who are you.)  Anyway, I'm just gonna do a first come, first serve thing.   I'll let you even choose the Shady in question you wish to replace!  Note the only thing being changed is their names; their weapon and stats (the latter of which is too similar to care anyway) won't change.

The Shady Thousand are:

Kupek (Iron Spear)
Kupop (Mateus Mace)
Kumama (Knuckle Blade (this is a claw, if you can't tell))
Kuku (Tarutaru Mace...note this character is TECHNICALLY female, since apparently, this was suppose to be Mog's lover in FF6.  No, this isn't really going to matter much for like anything <_<)
Kutan (Iron Sword)
Kupan (Simple Sword)
Kushu (Two Handed Sword)
Kurin (Iron Spear)
Kuru (Iron Sword)
Kamog (Long Sword)

Also, note you will have to provide me with a name.  I say this cause FF6 caps names at 6 letters, so you'll have to abbreviate your own damn name (contrast to randomly named NPCs where I can just spell the name out directly, thus no restriction.)

EDIT: And all names are taken, thank you to the 10 who volunteered!

[dude789]

Can I be Kupop? Dude works for the name.

[Shale]

Kushu, because a tangential SRW reference is better than any other reason I can think of to choose one.

[Magetastic]

Any chance I can hop in as Kamog (Name change to Mage)?

[VySaika]

I'll take Kumama(Moogle PAWNCH). Gate for the name, of course.

[Excal]

Moogle Kupan.

My nick is already five letters, allowing me to mock character limitations.

[Yoshiken]

Kurin, please. And Yoshi, of course. ^_^

[Magic Fanatic]

Magic the Kupek Moogle!

...I can still opt for this, right?  Magic and Mage...  Yeah, that'll get confusing quick.

[Bardiche]

[18:27] <Bardiche> >_> CAn't I just say it here?
[18:27] <Mettaur> no <_<
[18:28] <Bardiche> ffffff
[18:28] <Bardiche> y
[18:28] <Mettaur> its for documentation purposes!
[18:28] <Bardiche> >:\
[18:28] <Bardiche> Just change Kuru to Bard~

[Taishyr]

Kuku claimed! ...what, Hatbot said so, not me.

Tash works for the name. Or Toro. I consign my name to the whims of Meeple.

[Random Consonant]

Sure, I'll take Kutan, and rechristen him Random.

[Meeplelard]

It was brought to my attention that the 3 elemental swords (formerly Thunder Blade, Flame Sabre and Blizzard), which now are just generic elemental swords with +2 Magic Power (had to remove the random spell casting cause there is no more Bolt, spell that replaces it is WAY stronger), are fairly bland and not really worth using.  So I was thinking of changing them to slightly more original ideas.

The Glare Sword (former Break blade), which is just "randomly casts Break" might also change, but at least that's niche, so that's less priority.

The idea was turning them into unique weapons for Terra, Ike and Lenneth; as in, only usable by those 3 specifically.  These 3 are generally lacking in truly unique weapons; they have their Ultimates, Ike has the Regal Sword, Terra has 2 flails (technically shared with Lina, but she joins too late to matter here), one of which is obsolete by the time she rejoins, and Lenneth has Levantine which she shares with Fayt, and its really late.  Some of these are shared with Laharl, others are not; assume he is a non-factor for the rest of this, cause his equipment is suppose to be "really damn versatile", as far as Weapon's are concerned.

The idea with Ike is pretty simple; an improved Regal Sword.  Someone suggested "Mani Katti" on grounds that "Ike and Lyn were both added to Brawl, thereby Associated!!! And Mani Katti > Regal Sword"...but name is unimportant.  Basically, its stronger, it counters, deals double damage to Humans.  Easy enough.

Lenneth and Terra...are a bit harder.  I want these equips to serve a purpose, but also not be broken.  Lenneth can be better than the others mind, cause she's going to get it just before she leaves, so her getting a damn good weapon at this point wouldn't be too bad, cause she's got like one dungeon to make use of it, but I'm unsure what to do with it; I don't want it to be broken by the FC standards though, so nothing like "WEAKER ENHANCER!" or some such.  Basically, any ideas that would:
A. Fit Lenneth as a niche based on VP1/2(/DS?)...or even RS if someone thinks they can be cute <_<
B. Not be absurdly broken in any long term benefit; being really good for the Factory isn't too bad, but it should at least show signs of balance by the FC.

Terra...I was thinking of a Soul Sabre-like weapon; as in a weapon that drains MP from the enemy and restores it to her.  This would give another means to deal MP damage (thus maybe can form a super boss around this idea in the future if I feel someone is too bland), and its a totally unique niche.  My only reservation is that it makes MP a trivial factor for Terra, rather than a genuine restriction, which may compensate balance in some manner.  unsure if I'll apply the random Instant Death (25% chance of casting Deadly Fingertips in this case), but...yeah.  Basically, I need the same ideas for Terra that I did for Lenneth; a niche that sort of fits her for a unique weapon.

[Cmdr_King]

Hm.  How's your ability to add status to a weapon outside rando-casts?  Is it limited to death, or could you do something cuter?  Just a thought for token RS Lenneth reference.

Random ID also fits, but feels overrepresented anyway.  Offering Effect is viable (given how VP2 combat works) but a) I don't remember if you can toss that on a weapon and b) Feels like there's too much abusability potential in that, though certainly the weapon itself could be scaled for it based on BP and so on.

Hm.  Rando-cast one of the Nibelung Valestis perhaps?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Terra: I'm fine with her getting an MP-drain weapon. In vanilla FF6 she can use Osmose to regain MP; a Soul Sabre/Osmose Blade/whatever would be a reasonable reflection of that. Keep it with the +2 Magic of the old Ice Brand/etc. to give her a slight boost over the other magic users (Fayt isn't the attack mage Terra is, after all).

Lenneth: I was struggling to come up with something, but I really feel CK hit the best idea here. Sword that randomly casts NV2. Maybe the Ruin's Fate, which I mainly remember because it has a cool name, but it allows NV2 and is Dark elemental (an underrepresented element in MF6 at the moment). It'd be a nifty niche. Make it similar to the Masers in power.