Author Topic: Heaven And Earth  (Read 3014 times)

Magetastica

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Heaven And Earth
« on: September 02, 2017, 01:42:49 AM »
Hey all,

I've been working on my own RPG game and have already reached out to a few of you independently to help me test this out, but I figured that now that I'm further along in the development process it was time to expand the available testing market.

So what is Heaven And Earth? It's a split-path RPG adventure set in a world where dragons taught humans how to harness magic, and humans use magic the way we use science, formulas and all. Eventually, a massive war was fought between the dragons and the humans, splitting the world harshly in two, and creating vastly separate living spaces for the humans and for the dragons.

Now, centuries after the war and after dragons have mostly faded into myth, an incident occurs that convinces one of the human superpower nations that a repeat of the old war is on the horizon. You can play as the Xing family and try to resolve things with the dragons personally (which is done as a more traditional and linear RPG experience), or you can unite humanity under a single banner as the Terra family (done as a choose-your-own-adventure style of RPG questing).

Each path has unique characters, interactions with the world, storylines, and each character has unique skills that they bring to the table.

Currently there are two available missions for the Terra family after the prologue, and 3 'chapters' of story for the Xing family after the prologue. Both sides are intended to have Prologue->6 'chapters'/missions->Finale, and the Finale will vary drastically based on decisions made throughout the game.

Any and all feedback is appreciated, as I'm also at the point where it's getting incredibly difficult to properly assess how things are/feel based on my own playtesting.

The game can be downloaded from Google Drive here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4KpYRBJ9uUVRHRGVHlqQWwwc0U

Just follow the link, and download the folder for the latest version of the game. The launch executable is in the files as Game.exe

Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 06:25:45 PM »
New version is up in the folder as V 3.2

-Added powerful artifacts
-Continued Xing storyline
-New enemies
-New skills
-Entirely new area
-New equipment

VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 04:29:11 PM »
So I can't actually manage to download it. I do the "right click -> download" thing on the x3.2/PC folder, it starts up with "zipping 1 file" and then just hangs about a quarter of the way through that forever. Is anyone else having this kind of problem or is it just me?

EDIT: so as usual complaining is the way to make things magically work. After like 8 tries it finally downloaded. Will give a try later today.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 04:46:50 PM by Gatewalker »
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Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 08:18:57 PM »
Yeah, I noticed that it had a certain file that hadn't actually uploaded properly so I went back and made sure it was 100% uploaded. Both PC and Mac versions should work now.

While I was there I also added the most recent version of the game, so it has more of the Xing storyline, though it will end slightly abruptly as it's not at the end of an arc as of right now.

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 11:05:20 PM »
I can download it, but nothing happens when I try to run it. (PC version, for reference.)

Edit for posterity noting that it worked properly once I downloaded the right file.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 01:23:59 AM by El Cideon »

Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 11:24:54 PM »
So Folder 3.2 currently has a bug with it, so I've moved ahead and added the (yet again) most recent version of the game, tested for stability, to Folder 3.5.

As for it not working, please make sure that you have downloaded the entire folder of PC or Mac before trying to run it. If there are still any issues, please reach out to me ASAP.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 12:35:22 AM by Magetastica »

VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 09:10:24 PM »
EDIT 2: YUP completely different opening. Fucking MV. Leaving in the below as a testament to how badly it wonked up the progression. Bugs are great(note: bugs not actually great)

Okay, played...some of the prologue? And oh boy do I already have questions.

Questions like...who are these people? Why does it just jump around scenes with no explanation of what the fuck is going on, why does the sprite never match up with the face of who's talking, why is the first fight against an unbeatable boss that actually gives you a game over instead of being a plot fight, and why does this boss spend so many turns just buffing up instead of just OHKOing your dudes and being done with it.

First impressions are important, and from the very first 5-10 minutes I have no interest in playing any further. This prologue needs a complete overhaul to actually, you know, tell you what's going on. Introduce the characters in a way that actually introduces them not just...drop you with a full party into one of the PCs' mind and have the first conversation be a very confusing conversation with himself and then go straight from that to some kind of throne room and straight from that into some kind of cabin where yet another dude(none of which are the girl who's sprite is in the lead mind you) gets into a fight with his demon mom.

At least I think that's what was going on. I'm honestly not 100% sure.

EDIT: this was still off the 3.2 folder I grabbed, I'll grab the 3.5 in case this was some kind of wackiness with the program not loading scenes in the right order and try again(I have actually seen that with an MV game before, boy was that wonky)

« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:30:26 PM by Gatewalker »
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Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 09:29:36 PM »
That is 100% the wonkiness with the 3.2 folder. For some reason it puts you straight into a little over halfway into the overall game. Google Drive wouldn't let me replace the files in 3.2, which is why I had to make 3.5. I'm going to try deleting 3.2 again today, see if that finally works or if Google Drive will continue to be wonky. (If it does I'll then be looking into alternative sharing methods)

EDIT: It let me delete 3.2, finally. So yeah. 3.2 was game-breakingly buggy, and I apologize for that. 3.5 has been tested, and it actually starts you at the start of the game.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:31:44 PM by Magetastica »

VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 09:36:15 PM »
So for 3.5, I started with the Xing family. Is it supposed to start you off with Richard Rain and William Noble also in your party?
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Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 09:38:26 PM »
Uhh, no. It is not. I'm not sure how that even happened, since I haven't altered the starting party since the end of July. I will look into that immediately.

EDIT: Okay, something caused a glitch of some kind in the base files, and while I can't identify what caused it, I have resolved the issue. Starting fresh and just wiping+re-uploading everything just to be safe, though.

EDIT2: You can continue playing through, nothing else seems to have been altered, and that will hardly break the game. Just means you have bonus peeps a little earlier than intended.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 10:09:27 PM by Magetastica »

VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 10:27:14 PM »
I deleted and redownloaded again anyway, though haven't reopened it yet since I got distracted playing other stuff during the download time. <_<;
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Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 08:40:19 AM »
Version 3.9 is now in the Drive for both PC and Mac. It contains all gameplay through the human world for the Xing family, and should have an average level of somewhere between 16-22.

Thank you again, those of you playing. I very much look forward to the feedback!

Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 07:51:50 PM »
Anybody have any feedback on V3.9? If so, you can type it here, or PM me on the forums or in IRC. Even initial impressions would be helpful.

Thank you~

VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2017, 04:42:48 PM »
Oh, I went on vacation last monday and didn't have much time to do stuff. Still on vacation, but will be back next week and can poke stuff again. Haven't forgotten, just, you know, had other stuff coming up. :V
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VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 08:49:12 PM »
Okay. Played roughly an hour of xing path. Here's some initial thoughts/issues/etc numbered for convenience. Gameplay and story stuff just kinda mixed in together because there's only so coherent I can be right now.

1. Peter does not seem to build TP by any method other than being attacked. With his TP based skillset and his MP skills...preventing him from being attacked, I've built up the TP for him to use fire bomb exactly once.

2. The student quartet kinda...feels out of left field to me? They just join up with you because...because? Some initial hook for them, Rachel and Nova actually explaining what their mission is and the students going "hey preventing war with dragons sounds like a great idea, we should help with that" or something along those lines would be a good idea. Suddenly getting 6 people in a 4 person active party size game is a bit much though. I am glad everyone gains XP, but having to bench 2 people from the getgo just feels awkward.

3. Scene to scene transition is very rough. Talking to the right group of students and BAM I'm off to the next area without any chance to finish exploring the current one. Again with the hunters, check the right map and BAM off to the next area without any chance to finish exploring the hideout. Even worse about this was checking the council area in the second town, the guy runs up and tells us to go to the volcano and...we're kicked out of the town and it won't let me back in. I had shopping to do dammit. Basically forcing you to be very careful about doing anything optional like shopping or talking to people or exploring before interacting with the plot trigger without any warning or prompting that you'll just be forced along whether you like it or not is...kinda not great.

4. Having superspeed travel that works even in dungeons in the form of the mini-bike from the getgo is fantastic. Also having a pocket motorcycle in general is just great. Nice sci-fan blend there.

5. I am amused how most everyone has normalish names and then there's Nova. Nova is also the biggest weirdo in the cast though, so it's fine.

6. The game is really really easy thus far. In the dragon cave I mostly just held down attack with a team of Rachel/William/Richard/Peter and killed everything without ever being in danger. The first "boss" duo died in 3 hits, one Fire Bomb(the only one I had the TP for) killed the fighter and a Black Wind/Water Vapor combo did for the mage. This may be because the equipment gives absurdly huge boosts to magic attack right now, Peter dual wielding Inscribed Daggers did 700+ with that one firebomb. Keep next to the volcano is better, but it's mostly rocket tag since the enemies die in one spell but also do nearly half even William's HP in one spell if they use their magic instead of physically attacking.

7. Lee has no description in his status page, just as a note.

8. NPCs can usually be counted on to say something amusing, so that's a plus.

9. The main attack mage using HP to cast instead of MP is an interesting choice. Really having Rachel(blood mage, basically), Richard/Lee(elemental specialists), Nova(ALL THE ELEMENTS traditional mage), Peter(tinker) and William(self-buff based) all functioning as different types of "mages" makes for a cast where everyone can be a Mage but nobody feels like they step on anyone's toes too much. Lee feels like the character with the least amount of overall use, since Richard gets 2 elements to Lee's 1 and Heal is both more generally useful and much cheaper than Haste. Haste could be vital in some boss fights I suppose, and since he levels up normally even on the bench it's not a big deal.

10. Encounter rate may be a bit high. I notice the "should have average level of 16-22" and I'm at level 9 already in the second actual dungeon(abandoned fort near the volcano).

Point 3 is really the biggest issue I have with the game as a general design thing.

EDIT: Well. The boat trip after Oscar hammed it up and cleared out the town for me left me in the middle of water tiles and I can't move from there. Yay, bugs! <_>
Edit 2: Reloaded, tried again. It took me all the way to land this time. See, I read faster than the text auto advances, so I pushed buttons to make the text go faster. And once the text was done...it unloaded me in the ocean instead of on land because I was still on water when the text ended.
Edit 3: I entered the oasis town and my map sprite became the boat again. Using the mini-bike fixed it, but it was funny enough to share. :V
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 09:04:46 PM by Gatewalker »
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VySaika

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2017, 05:25:06 PM »
Doublepost of being stuck. I'm in the desert area, have talked to both chiefs...and now I can't figure out where to go. Can't use the gate in either camp, can't enter the tower, can't enter the area to the west, and the areas to the north and east don't seem to let me enter anywhere. Not sure what I missed. I'm supposed to talk to a sand serpent somewhere but no idea where to find said serpent. Also a person in the first camp is asking me to get to the basement of the tower but I can't enter the tower.
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Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2017, 06:39:16 PM »
Thank you for sharing, working on fixes.

Of note: -I've discovered why you can't enter the tower. Fixed.
-Peter will now hold his TP count between battles, and ALL cloaking skills give him TP now.
-For Point 3, would a warning that you're about to engage a scene that will remove you from the current place be sufficient?
-Working on 2, that one might take a bit to figure out though
-Difficulty will be one of the very last things tweaked, so I'm okay if it's easy for the time being so the story can be experienced
-Uncertain about how you got the Oasis bugs. I actually tested and tweaked that one for a long time to make sure that even doing things like advancing text super fast wouldn't affect anything. That might take me a while to fix. >_>

I'll upload the game with the fixes I've got so you can advance, and then continue working on the others in the meantime.

Sierra

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2017, 09:13:47 PM »
Post of I haven't got around to starting yet but totally will (because speaking as other person making game, I know feedback is important). Guess I will take the other path when I do.

But I'll agree with Gate in advance that it's definitely good to get some warning when some development is about to close the doors of unfinished local quests and such. Maybe sometimes it can be hard to convey this diegetically, but as a player, I always appreciate the heads-up whenever possible.

Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 12:45:09 AM »
Okay, so while I was touching up on those things you mentioned, I noticed some more of my previous work that had gotten altered. You can't go into the capital of the Talon Plains, with the current 3.9 build. Even the one I put up yesterday.

I am going to upload 4.0 for MAC and PC, and the updates are as follows: -Able to enter Taloria in the Talon Plains
-Plot leads all the way up to the endgame for the Xing path
-Added prompts at majour points denoting that plot will advance in places where it throws you somewhere else
-Peter retains TP between fights, and all cloaking skills give TP
-Class Promotions are a thing after a point.
-Transition into the desert has been tweaked, should no longer run the risk of being dumped in the middle of the ocean. Should also keep the original tone of the scene.
-Unable to figure out how you were the boat again after leaving town. Like, seriously. No idea how.

I will edit this post once 4.0 is uploaded, but wanted to give a heads up.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 12:57:10 AM »
I keep forgetting this exists. I wanna try it out but every time I see the topic, it's when I'm at work and unable to download a video game and play it. Drop some screenshots in here so I can get an idea of the 'feel' of your game as I read everyone's comments?

Magetastica

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 03:32:34 AM »
Okay, V4.0 is up for both Mac and PC in Google Drive. Hopefully everyone enjoys!

As for screenshots, it might be easiest to check the game's store page: http://store.steampowered.com/app/673630/Heaven_And_Earth/

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Re: Heaven And Earth
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2017, 02:15:18 AM »
Okay.  Played a bit of the Terra storyline (about...15-20 minutes' worth so far?  Finished the pirate quest), I've got quite a few things to report.

First of all, and perhaps the most pressingly, Fiona, mechanically speaking, is broken.  And I don't mean in the "overpowered, breaks the game" sense, but that a good deal of her stuff does not work right, if at all.  Her basic attack doesn't work at all, inflicting 0 damage after the one or two times in the scripted prologue battles, and I am suspecting this is in part why Whirlwind Blade is free, as a stopgap fix.  This is worsened by the fact that these are the only two abilities she has that don't feed off of TP, which raises too slowly to make use of in most fights.  Additionally, as-is, Feed the Sword doesn't work as advertised, if only because it doesn't drain her HP.  But this is probably good, for reasons I'll go on a bit later in the post.  She's also not helped by her fixed weapon, which really limits how well her damage can scale over the game.

(Also, on the player side, it is not fun to have the game advertise the character being able to use other gear if their current gear is locked.  Especially if the other gear rates better.)

David has a similar issue.  Locked gear everywhere (though his defenses seem to keep up) and not really much to do.  The problem comes in where his focus (self-buffing in particular) doesn't...quite match up to the rest of his set.  Fights aren't going to last long enough for those buffs to matter with his base damage values, even with their 10-turn durations.  Also to be addressed in further detail down the line.

Will and Ana appear to work as intended, though Ana being the only one to get a weapon upgrade (that gives sizeable buffs to her magic, no less) basically means that by the pirate raid, she's the single most damaging character in the party.  I'm not sure if Will's elemental variety so far is too meaningful?  It feels like Jolt's good enough for the entirety of the spread of opponents here.

That is to say, I suppose, the balance between the Terras is...off.  Though looking at things, in most cases it seems more as if the balance between physical and magical abilitites is off.  Which...well, that will take a bit of a lecture.

Assuming you used the RMMV sample formulas here...well, that'd do it honestly.  RMMV's sample formulas are based on the sort of approach that previous RM games do, with basing physicals entirely on stats while forcing magic to adhere to a half-stat-plus-static-value formula by comparison.  It becomes egregious, though, when physical abilities (or basic physicals) break 100 on a good day, while magic easily smashes for 300+ without trying.  On both sides.

The big problem with heavy static values on magic, especially using a subtractive defense is that the magic defense stat quickly becomes irrelevant outside of very niche cases (Fiona needing nearly 300 MDF to get the sort of resistance she gets says something.  Especially when the enemies start spamming spells and whapping the rest of the party for 300-500 easy) and you get a weird case of HP as the primary defensive stat in most cases.  This also leads to discrepancies in party effectiveness, where Ana easily does ten times as much as Fiona or David (before her second-rank spells), rendering them best off being item caddies in practice.

The matter with magic here is that it tends to make things quite...rocket taggy.  The pirate boss just plain oneshots a party member if he casts Fire, no ifs, ands or buts.  I suppose overall I'd suggest reining the magic numbers in, possibly going back over your math with a fine-toothed comb if you have to.  (Or at least, revising magic attacks for enemies and physicals for PCs)


Other issues I've noticed include numerous points in the Terra path where it references or straight-up uses the Xiao characters' portraits.  I suppose that's due to it having largely been unfinished, but it's worth pointing out, I feel.  Mapping on the wartorn village also feels slightly off, and I'm going to echo Gate's issues with the feeling of pacing in the intro.  We're dropped into our party at the start of the dungeon, no real intros or whatnot.  At the least, it picks up a bit, but the intro dungeon leaves a bad first impression to me.  The scripted encounters there, moreso, since they don't feel quite like they add much.  Same with the scripted encounters in the pirate raid feeling like they're no different from the random encounters, just that they're visible.  If you're going to have something visible like that, make sure it's a notable fight.


Last thing I'm going to point out, it may just be me but it feels a bit jarring that you're using the default item names (...even if we're down to four of them because MV pruned the living shit out of the sample material down to something ridiculously bare-bones)

[EDIT] Polish issue I forgot to mention.  For some of the mook pirates in the hideout, the faceset you use doesn't quite sync up with the portrait grabber MV uses.  And so when they talk they have like...four different faces shown.  At the same time.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 10:12:11 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.