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Author Topic: Disquiet: Episode 1  (Read 2547 times)

AndrewRogue

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Disquiet: Episode 1
« on: January 20, 2014, 08:32:09 PM »
[Practitioners and the art of Dissonance have made life so much easier. Their magic has enabled the Empire to grow unbounded: construction, comfort, farming, even the production of minerals and metals... all improved thanks to Dissonance.

Of course, progress is not without a price. The Disquiet - a deadly byproduct of Dissonance - poisons the world, twisting and transforming it into a nightmare. Every grand spell, every little trick, all of it adds to the growing threat. Every effortto abate its growth has proven nothing more than a stopgap, a delaying tactic. Slowly but surely its presence grows.

Noemi of the Imperial Flow Academy is convinced that there is a way to purify the Disquiet. Although her years of study haven't yielded anything conclusive, she hasn't given up and has continuously pushed the bounds of knowledge regarding the substance. Now, she believes there is only one unexplored frontier: the Throne of the First. The home of the strongest, and oldest, Disquiet in the world. Could the answer be hidden there?

Her only choice is to gather a group willing to assist her on this dangerous expedition and find what secrets the Throne of the First has kept for so long...
]

Disquiet: Episode 1

The long and short of it is that I'm looking for a couple of voices to maybe playtest/examine our systems as they currently exist so we can get a bit of outside feedback. We also could always use another hand or two for more indepth help.

If you're interested, just poke me.

Otherwise, this topic is for ongoing discussion.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 09:48:12 AM by AndrewRogue »

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 08:46:56 PM »
Okay, so right now our big priority is to do some housekeeping. I talked about this at the meeting last night, but, before we make some more forward progress, I really want to:

1. Audit skillsets.
2. Finalize item/equipment effects.
3. Improve existing encounters.

The skillset issue isn't a big one, more of a tweaking thing. But since we're refining our encounter policy a bit, it wouldn't help to make sure everything is still kosher. Eirwen is the big offender as, much as I love the item system, I think it needs to be dumped. It is so at odds with everything else in the game (lack of memory from combat to combat, deemphasizing dungeon-wide resource management, etc). Minor thing, but switching her to a true charge system or the like is probably best.

The item thing is a big deal and needs to be talked about (primarily what sort of effects we really want available in Episode 1 off equipment, how strong they can be, what the tradeoffs/options are).

Third should be a consequence of the above as well as streamlining to match our new encounter goals.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 11:45:09 PM »
Talking about Eirwen.

Having thought about it, converting her "item" skills to charges makes the most sense as it allows them to still feel different while maintaining internal consistency regarding our dungeon flow.  The trick is nailing down number of charges, since we have longer than average combats and Eirwen is fastest PC.

Could probably get away with just making sure First Aid is pretty reliable (5+ uses), and other "item" abilities (pending power) are in the 1-4 range. She'll run out of the "items" in tougher combats, but it shouldn't feel like too much of a drag.

Grefter

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 12:04:37 AM »
When you talk charges, to you mean charges like FF1 spells or charges/battle like Penny Arcade 3/4?

I prefer the latter but feel bad wholesale ripping off all the things we like.  Former does give us an element of attrition that we have lost migrating away from classic MP based system.

Would note, if we do that we need to either have dual costed stuff (stam/charges) or maintain a balance on Stam costs carefully for her skills depending how we want her rhythm to work in combat.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 01:32:00 AM »
Latter. I'm actually specifically attempting to avoid attrition. Given we've gone for avoiding attrition completely, it seems weird to integrate it back into just one character. I'd stick with the item thing were we playing with a system that used dungeon attrition, but, as is, it is really ugly (and feels bad) to force it for one PC.

Grefter

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 08:44:16 AM »
My knee jerk then is to cost them just at the charge so she can regen stamina off them and cost her Specials high enough so that healing functionally replaces Attack in her rotation, makes the opportunity cost I healing effeciently with her low and healing a lot with her cause an overflow of Stamina (effectively costing it).  I would drop plans for damage items on her too.  She may just want effectively two small skill sets effectively.  Also stops that part of her skills from competing directly with Item (May want to review existence of items).

I ask about charges because making attrition unique to her would feel punishing/strange but it would still be unique which has some value.  Agree it can swing too much between overly punitive and functionally meaningless.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 06:45:36 PM »
That seems pretty reasonable and creates a bit of a decision point. With her current Stamina structure, using her heal to maximum effectiveness requires using it in specific windows.

And yeah. I can appreciate the uniqueness factor. Just think it is too much in this circumstance.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 07:52:33 PM »
Right. So I haven't addressed this yet, but I'm still not really happy with Noemi's patterns. They just don't feel good to me yet. Might not be a good fix, but I was curious on people's thoughts here.

074

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2014, 03:46:26 AM »
I presume by patterns you mean the moves that have cooldowns.  I understand what you mean, but there is likely something more of a deeper issue at play here.

I intend to bring this topic to full in the meeting tonight, but needless to say I feel there are some significant revisions needed for Noemi and Erastus at the very least, if not Kasia as well.

AS SUCH, an analysis of the first two dungeons in general, and what is generally available for/in them, using the data from the compendium (if it is not accurate, then I will address that)

------------------ Disquieted Dumping Grounds
Weapons: Knife (slashing), Sword (slashing), Crossbow (piercing)

Noemi: Flare Shot (fire damage), Flare Shot Crescendo (high fire damage, spends TP and has cooldown), Sleeping(ST sleep), can use knives and swords

Kasia: Power Shot (high damage, high TP cost), Recovery (healing, inflicts Healblock), Rest (haste+regen to self), Intervention (vastly decreases the damage the target will take next), can use crossbows and swords.

Slothful: slow, more physically durable than magically, attacks physically and uses Screech (lowers target SPD)

Unwanted: physically frail, can use Degradation (Disquiet-element magic attack, inflicts damage and lowers SPR).

Verminous: Fast, frail, basic attack inflicts Bleed.  Runs away after first turn.

Corpulent: multiphase boss. 
     -First phase has heavy defense, attacks with physical, Armor Crack(physical that reduces defense), Overhead Smash(physical that causes Stun), uses Amplification (boosts next physical attack). 
     -Second phase has reduced defense, uses Putrefaction (multitarget magic that inflicts Disquiet damage and bleeding), Degradation (see Unwanted), and Desecration (single-target disquiet-elemental magic attack)

-------------- Thug Hideout
Weapons: as above, plus staves (boosts evade)

Noemi: as above, plus Crescendo Sleeping (as sleep except randotarget, likely to be made into multitarget because of internal complaints of reliability)
Kasia: as above, plus Leg Shot (reduces target evasion)
Erastus: starts with Breather (focus boost, still questioning the inclusion of it), Flare Blast (fire damage, single-target), Fireball (fire damage, multitarget, has cooldown and high cost), Ignition (fire damage and reduces target fire resistance), Searing (Focus skill, inflicts Fire damage and reduces target STR and VIT), and Blasting Spread (Focus skill, attacks 9 random enemies)

Raider: Fast, high-DEX, evasive, and frail.  Starts first turn with a multitarget magic attack (randomly picked between fire, ice, and lightning), then uses physicals, Pommel Smash (delays target in addition to damage), and Sand Throw (blinds)

Thrasher: slow enemy with a basic physical and Amplification.  Candidate for removal and replacement with something more interesting, as on further observation it is nothing more than a bag of HP.

Smasher: high-defense enemy with Armor Crack (as above) and Throat Strike (inflicts Stun, no damage).

Bandit Captain: "support" enemy with Rallying Call (boosts all enemies' VIT and adds regen) usable on first turn, and Marking Edge (attack that increases the likelihood of target being targeted by other enemies).

Gang Leader: High-physical-offense "boss", may use Bloodletting (attack that also inflicts Bleed) or Rampage (random-target 3-hit attack).  Could use some diversification.

Second-in-command: Evasive support/magic "boss", uses Spell Barrier (boosts all elemental resistances), Spark Cluster (high-variance lightning spell), Arc Conduction (random-target 2-hit lightning spell), Cold Snap (cold-elemental spell that delays target), and Shockwave Burst (earth-elemental multi-target spell).

Striker: Evasive support to bosses, uses Bola Throw (reduces target SPD) and Pommel Smash (attack that damages and delays target).

--------------------------

The core of the problem is, I feel, that we haven't revised the setups to be more interesting for the longer fights that are demanded in the second dungeon and onward.  Essentially, for player characters, only Kasia has any truly appreciable ability variety for this second dungeon, with having a physical attack, a self-buff, a heal, a desperate "save" ability, an evade-reducer, and a "finisher" at this point.  By comparison:

Noemi: basic physical, fire magic, big fire magic, sleep magic, big sleep magic.

Erastus: basic physical, fire magic, multitarget big fire magic, fire resist reducer, fire magic with added stat reduction, and random-target big fire magic.

Essentially, two of our characters are fairly one-dimensional in their abilities, as a result of having essentially had, as was addressed earlier, skillsets that are fundamentally incomplete versions of much larger skillsets.  Which is where Noemi's "rhythm" comes in.  Or to be more precise, her lack thereof for the most part, given that she alternates between "damage" and turns where "big damage" is available more often than not, and with long battles, a functionally shallow moveset will become increasingly grating.

Not to say that the enemies aren't to blame.  I regrettably didn't stray too far from my original setups where I assumed attrition and short non-boss encounters.  Lengthening encounters in the second dungeon is a notable stunt, too, given that increasing numbers one way or another can lead to problems.

...basically, we need to revise Noemi and Erastus' earlygame skillsets, and at the same time revise the bandits in particular.  We can keep the Dumping Grounds fights short due to, well...two-person dungeon, you have to make that fast due to the limited number of actions and grating feeling of fighting on and on with only two party members (where have I seen this?  Oh, wait, Mystic Quest.)

But the point is that the problem with rhythm can be solved by increasing the depth of skillset available to Noemi (and to me, Erastus as well).  To make longer battles more interesting, we're going to have to introduce more abilities to existing enemies, and scrap extraneous enemies to make room for things that have more than a self-buff and a basic physical.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 12:07:54 AM »
So. A brief follow-up to the meeting.

Outside of changes to Eirwen, we're going to hold off on any major changes until we have a little more time to experiment with the problem PCs. The current issue may be that Noemi just needs access to the rest of her skillset, as the core of her rotations is Flame/Shock (a skill she doesn't have access to yet in any of the demoed areas). Gonna try giving it to her earlier and seeing how well it functions.

DDG should still more or less be fine as is, although I'd like to try a variant with the Vermnious being more fragile, but less likely to run away.

Priore needs a solid reexamination.

A reasonable concern brought up by Grefter was healers: given this game's structure, it might be too critical to have Eirwen/Kasia in the party. This needs to be checked to see if it is true. If it is, we might want to consider providing some alternate, less efficient healing options or shifting power around their skillsets slightly.

---

Speaking of. Items, equipment, and money. We still need to talk about that. I'll make another post about it more generally, but I think we do need to focus on having some more expensive equip options that have various effects that push character abilities further into niches, possibly as big ticket items.

Consumable items... now those are another story.

074

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 01:41:22 PM »
To sum things up:

*Changing the escape rate on Verminous did nothing to my strategies--even without cutting the HP.  It might scare some people, but as usual I am a poor measure of "average" play.

*Bug Report: Verminous that have escaped will continue to take turns and Escape each time.  It doesn't impact gameplay but it IS disruptive.

<Namagomi> playtest analysis with changes:
<Namagomi> Spark Cluster does little to nothing in the first dungeon, aside from possibly being a more attractive option against Phase 2 Corpulent and for those who want to use magic on Unwanteds
<Namagomi> Is actually counterproductive for most of the warehouse due to enemies present being the sort who either generally don't care about magic either way (and thus you want to use Flare Shot for the lower cost) or have particularly -BAD- magic defense (and thus you want to use Flare Shot for higher damage)...with the exception of the bossfight where it is more useful against the mage's higher [note: on checking, not significantly higher] MDEF (but then runs into the fact that Erastus cannot do anything to lightning resist)
<Namagomi> this has been Nama's Playtest Analysis For Assholes

Largely, Spark Cluster runs into issues with the level mult at this point, to my recollection, and it was originally placed at a point where it would be an attractive option against enemies with evasion, MDEF, and/or lightning weakness.  And as noted many times, Warehouse enemies need to be gone through with a fine-toothed comb.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 12:10:57 AM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 07:32:08 PM »
That's an odd bug. I don't recall that occurring in the past, do you?

074

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2014, 11:26:57 PM »
It might have.  Regardless, this is more of a bug that affects polish than one that affects gameplay.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Grefter

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2014, 12:11:51 AM »
It existed, I think we saw it during a stream test, but were focusing on other stuff than system behaviours.

Edit - Sentence structure so good
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2014, 02:02:40 AM »
[This is super brief. I'll backfill it a bit.]

Priore (I'm eyeballing stats, so I might be a little off here)

Randoms

Raider: Fragile, decent damage, annoyance via delay/blind. [Modify attacks to give more priority/stack his delay into his other attacks?]

Thrasher: Durable bruiser. Increases damage via Amplification, giving him slow, heavy damage. [Good as is.]

Smasher: Averagey with decent damage. Can reduce armor and stun. [Good as is]

Bandit Captain: Durable, lower damage. Increases the survivability of teammates and helps enemies focus attacks. [Give options to deal with him before his buff either by status or fatal damage]

~~~

Boss

Gang Leader: Decent durability, high damage

Second in Command: Mrf

[I'd like to try and set-up a little bit more of a difference in these two, as they are both fairly obnoxious bruisers. Perhaps focus the Gang Leader onto heavy ST damage and lighter MT damage onto the 2nd? I dunno, just rambling]

Striker: Fragile, lower damage, stun/delay [Consider removing these guys and replacing them with some of the randoms instead]

~~~

Condense down abilities on randoms to carve out stronger niches. Shift usage a bit to give more reaction time once you know what an enemy is capable of (e.g. Bandit Captain not buffing right away).

Trade out Strikers for use of the previous randoms instead, culmination of dungeon and all.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:25:12 AM by AndrewRogue »

074

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Re: Disquiet: Episode 1
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2014, 09:28:10 AM »
Current proposed courses of action on Priore enemies, to be tested later once I get sent the latest version.

Striker: remove entirely.  They were intended to provide an angle that would make the battle here harder and justify not YOLOrushing it, but as has been discussed, it is more effective to make the normal enemies here more effective instead.

Bandit Captain: Not much is needed to improve this guy.  They're durable and provide amazing support in the form of focus-firing and durability buffing.  But I want to give them Armor Crack to solidify their support role and make them scarier in that sense, so I can start fresh with some of the lessers.

Raider: Okay.  These guys need some refocusing.  Right now they pick one of three AoE elemental attacks and then are annoyingly evasive but otherwise nonthreatening.  As they're one step away from the old Strikers, I'm going to throw Bola Throw their way and maybe raise their DEX a bit.  That should make them into credible enough threats.

Thrasher: These guys are...kind of hard to make good, since they're the Smash Mooks of Smash Mooks, and I threw Armor Crack in the Bandit Captain's direction.  Going to make them ironically weak to physicals by means of poor DEF and DEX--but have enough HP that you'll need to go that route ideally.  Going to also change their moveset around a little so they don't Amplification so much, and maybe just to be obnoxious give them Sleep immunity, given the all-or-nothing paradigm Andy wants here.

Smasher: Okay, if Thrashers are the offense-heavy type, I'm going to be giving Smashers a sizable DEF boost and generally make them the tanks meant to be killed with magic.  (Or crossbows)--comparably lower HP in relation to the Thrashers should seal the idea there.  As for how to make them threatening...that one's going to be a bit more of a pain.  I'll get back on that one--and cover the bosses when I can get back.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.