Breath of Fire 3

[Dhyerwolf]

1. What’s new- So tackling the big differences from the previous topic:
--Updated damage notes based on GF user second_advent’s amazing pseudo BMG work
--Defense notes
--Fuller dragon list
--Accurate status notes
--Uses equal EXP, not levels

2. Average Enemy Stats-
Average Enemy Wisdom- 150 (Please note that any Wisdom over 250 for enemies basically has no effect for cutting damage from the 250 mark. As such, for defense averages, 999=250, so the average is a little lower than it would be otherwise
Average Enemy Defense- 125 (Backing out some extremes gives us this)
Enemy Evade- 0. Seems like 9 of 10 enemies I tested on had this, so this feels pretty safe.
Exact Def/Wisdom for enemy Newt
Psionic/Status/Death- 3/3.5/4 (Psionic trends a little lower than Status, which trends a little lower than Death)

3. Various Formulae:
Crits= 1.5x to Attack
Physical Attack Formula (PC to enemy) (Boiling this down to DL important factors): 0.826 (Attack-Defense)
Magic Attack Formula (Int+100)*(100-Defense Int/5*)*Spell Mult/10000)*1.025 for Random Variance
*This maxes out at 50, meaning that any intelligence over 250 does nothing additional to damage reduction
Status Accuracy- (50+Attacker Int/5)* 125-(Defender Int/5)) x Resistance Rate
Healing Formula= Base+ (Int of caster/ (100/base)))

4. PC Defense- This one is tricky. PC Defense is a semi communal stat, where your actual defense stat is (Individual Defense Stat+Party Defense Stat)/2, where Party Defense Stat is the average of the party’s defense. So the MT defense buffing actually is more potent than ST despite having the same boost since it’s boosts party defense

5. EXA Turns- If you are double the speed of the enemy average, you get an extra turn. As such, having high speed in BoF 3 (on the PC side at least) is even more potent than average. Just to note, enemy average in game isn’t too far off from PC average in the DL, so that makes it easy. What this basically means that Rei can become a double turning monster with a single casting of Speed. To me, I probably consider SDs to have a larger effect here than normal (or something like that. Obviously for the slow this isn’t quite the same effect, so I’m still tinkering with this)

6. Statuses
Confuse- In a duel, makes enemy use basic physicals against you
Poison- 10% CHP Damage, Infinite Duration?
Silence- Shuts off Magic; Seems to last for quite some time (might be infinite duration)
Sleep- Cancelled by taking physical damage and also naturally with time. Generally lasts 1 turn fairly reliably. If all enemies are Asleep, you get an EX turn (this means that in a duel, lasting 1 turn=3 for the PC due to EX turns). Appears to overwrite Silence. I believe that hit rate becomes 100% under Sleep (nice boon for Momo)
Paralysis- Effectively a win in a duel

7. Legal Status Blocking Accessories (In addition to the status and debuff halving shields)
Life Sandals- Reduces Status by 1 Level (25% Hit Rate; Combine with Protectors for 75% Reduction)
Talisman- Reduces ID by 1 Level (25% Hit Rate for the Most Part)

8. Disallowed Items:
--Blizzard Mail- Just to note that the previous topic notes this as storebought in FV, but it’s actually only found in the sea (Meaning just one copy, so not legal at all)
--Diana’s Dress- Two users, you’ll be very lucky to see one
--Dragon Fangs/Goo King Sword/Holy Avenger/Rufad's Spear- Either too rare an enemy, too powerful an enemy (a super random that is scarier than the final boss) or both
Manly Clothes- Low defense, low weight armor for Rei/Ryu/Garr. It has OPB 100% Auto-Revive, but it breaks when it kicks in. Being consumable+falling into a Reflect Mail type situation makes me very disinclined to consider this, but there’s definitely a flip side where one can argue it is legal.
--Shaman’s Ring- The last topic gave this to Ryu, but I don’t believe this is unique, just found in a solo section before rejoining with the party.
--Silver Tiara- Two users, you’ll see one (I figure that allowing Nina and Momo the Holy Robe is a compromise so that they are getting some benefit of the equips, but if you are running both, you’ll likely be splitting up the equips)
--Anything bought in Fairy Village- Unless someone wants to tell me that these not take absurd amounts of time to unlock. I ran an equipment shop first thing and I basically had nothing unlocked by endgame. If allowed, it adds
-->Hidden Dagger/Ice Halbard/Ouroboros/Tiger Cap- A weapon for Ryu and Nina with a chance on ID on attack/A weapon for Garr that allows for Ice damage/A weapon for Nina with more Int (bad more Weight)/Headwear most everyone can use that adds 5 Attack

9. Averages Up Top
HP: 223.7
Defense: 207 (Slightly misleading as a number)
Int: 110
Agility: 37.67 (18.51 SD)
Damage: 249 (191 using a realistic spammable move for Ryu using Myrmidon Physical Attack)
-->2.5x Kill Point: 623 (478)

RYU, L40

HP: 227………………………...101.4% HP
AP: 154
STR: 259 (144 Base)
DEF: 250 (100 Base)…….Cut by 18 damage (20.2% cut)
AGL: 38 (49 Base)…………+0.02 SD
INT: 132 (127 Base………Cuts Damage by 5.3% and Status by 3.2% (Division)
Crit: 5%
Dodge: 8%
Accuracy: 100%
Reprisal: 12%

Seeking Sword- 110 Attack, 5 Defense, 5 Int, 2 Weight
Dragon Armor- 73 Defense, 6 Weight, Absorbs Flame
Spiked Gauntlets- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, Power+5
Dragon Helm- 30 Defense, 2 Weight, Absorbs Flame

Alternate Equips
Royal Sword- 158 Attack, Electric, 8 Weight, Casts Lightning
Demonsbane- 99 Attack, Demon Slayer, 7 Weight
Piercing Edge- 91 Attack, 4 Weight, Casts Weaken
Heat Shotel- 76 Attack, 3 Weight, Fire
Ascension- 70 Attack, Holy, 4 Weight
Ashura Sword- 50 Attack, 3 Weight, +3 to Death
-->Saves his ass; 75% ID resistance; If you allow Talisman, combine the two for 100% resistance

Light Clothing- 16 Defense, 1 Weight (+0.29 SD above average)
DragonShield- 42 Defense, 3 Weight, Absorbs Flame
Mind Shield- 34 Defense, 3 Weight, Int +5, Halve Stat Down and MP Damage Hit Rate, Casts Leech Power
Protectors- 16 Defense, 1 Weight, Halve Status Accuracy

Attack- 115 (110 Base, 5% Crit) (156 Thunder) (106) (101) (86 Fire )(81 Holy)

Restore- 278 Healing, 12 AP
Vigor- 278 MT Healing, +7 to Speed for turn (Doesn’t effect EXAs though), 50 AP
Vitalize- 92 MT Healing, 20 AP
Rejuvenate- 92 Healing, 8 AP
Heal- 46 Healing, 4 AP
Resurrect- Full Revival, 20 AP
Raise Dead- 70%? Chance of Restoring Minimal HP to dead ally; 7 AP
Protect- 20% Def Increase, 2 AP
Shield- 20% MT Def Increase, 4 AP
Barrier- Halves Magic; 4 AP
Remedy- Cures Status 8 AP
Bonebreak- 412 Physical Damage (Untransformed), Usable Once every 3 hours! (Gained about 4 hours before endgame)

Accession: Transforms into a Dragon (Please note that upon transformation, Ryu loses defensive properties from gear. That means that outside of Kaiser and Wildfire, his other dragon forms are susceptible to status, ID and MP busting).
Kaiser Dragon (Infinity+Radiance+Trance): 681 HP, 647 Attack, 625 Def, 198 Int, 57 Agl (64 w/ Light Clothes) (+1.04 SD/+1.42 SD)
-->Takes 53 AP to transform and costs 27 AP at end of each turn after turn 1 to upkeep (4 Turns to Act Without factoring in EXAs)
-->Cuts Physicals by 222  (80% factoring in ITD), Cuts Magic by 22.5%
-->Reduces Flame/Frost/Electric/Earth/Wind by 75% (Misses Holy)
-->Immune to Stat Downs, Status and Draining

Attack- 444 Physical Damage (431 Base, 5% Crit Rate)
Kaiserbreath- 698 ITD MT Damage at Full HP down to 1 damage at 1 HP
Howling- 63% MT Confusion
Bonebreak- 1223 Physical Damage, Usable Once every 3 hours! (Gained about 4 hours before endgame)

BEST DAMAGE
Myrmidion (Force and Trance Alone): 408 HP, 777 Attack, 300 Def, 57 Agl (64 w/ Light Clothes) (+1.04 SD/+1.42 SD)
-->Takes 16 AP to transform, 8 to Upkeep
-->Cuts Physical damage by 45 (50%)

Attack- 554 Damage (538 Base)
Aura- 1,076 Holy Damage, 20 AP
Flame Strike- 554 Fire Physical, 1 AP
ThundrStrike- 554 Thunder Physical+49%* Paralyze, 4 AP
-->49% Assumes this works on the same hit rate as other status, but this isn’t very testable
Frost Strike- 554 Ice Physical+49%*  Sleep, 4 AP
-->49% Assumes this works on the same hit rate as other status, but this isn’t very testable Wind Strike- 554 Wind Physical, 1 AP
Holy Strike- 554 Holy Physical, 2 AP

GOOD DAMAGE/SPEED/COMBO
Warrior (Force+Gross+Thorn): 295 HP, 751 Attack, 421 Defense, 91 Agi (103 w/ Light Clothing) (+2.88 SD/3.5 SD)
-->Takes 24 AP to transform, 12 to upkeep
-->Cuts Physicals by 111  (80% factoring in ITD)

Attack- 528 (513 Base)
Aura- 1026 Holy Physical, 15 AP

GOOD DAMAGE/SPEED COMBO THAT CAN BE COMBINED WITH ELEMENTAL OR STATUS/DEATH DEFENSE
Warrior (Force+Gross+X): 363 HP, 673 Attack, 325 Defense, 171 Int, 79 Agi (90 w Light Clothing) (+2.23 SD/+2.82 SD)
-->Takes 16 AP to transform (without adding an element effect), 8 to Upkeep
-->Cuts Physical damage by 58 (66%), Cuts Magic by 15.6%
-->Can null Fire, Ice, Thunder or Holy with an additional genes that costs 5 extra AP upfront
-->Can get 75% status/death resistance with Shadow Gene (5 extra AP upfront)

Attack- 444 Physical (431 Base)
Aura- 862 Holy Physical, 20 AP
Focus- Increases Power by 50%, Stackable to 100%, Wears away when used
ShadowBreath (Dark)- Unknown Chance MT ID (It wouldn’t make sense that it would be better than Death in hit rate, so it should be 41% at best. Might be more in the 25% range?)
Elemental Claw- 444 Fire/Ice/Thunder/Holy Physical

SOLID CHEAP FORM WITH FULL STATUS/ID DEFENSE
Shadow+Thorn+Gross- 535 HP, 543 Attack, 525 Defense, 68 Agi (77/ w Light Clothes)
-->21 AP to transform, 11 AP to Maintain
-->Cuts Physicals by 168 (80% factoring in ITD)
-->Immunes ID/Status

Attack- 356 (345 Base) Physical
ShadowBreath (Dark)- Unknown Chance MT ID (It wouldn’t make sense that it would be better than Death in hit rate, so it should be 41% at best. Might be more in the 25% range?)

BEST MAGIC DAMAGE OR INSTANT DEATH AND ID/STATUS RESISTANCE w/ HEALING
Eldtrich+Gross+Electric or Shadow- 476 HP, 414 Atk, 450 Def, 211 Int, 57 Agl (64 w/ Light Clothes) (+1.04 SD/+1.42 SD)
-->21 AP to Transform, 11 AP to Maintain
-->Cuts Physicals by 127 (80% factoring in ITD), Cuts Magic by 26%
-->With Shadow, is 75% resistant to Death/Status

Attack- 247 Physical
Myollnir- 223 Thunder Magic, 10 AP or Death- 44% ID, 5 SP
Vitalize- 110 MT Healing, 20 AP
Restore- 295 ST Healing, 12 AP
Remedy- Status Healing, 7 AP

NULL MOST ELEMENTS+COUNTERS
Wildfire (Miracle+Thorn+Reverse): 22 HP, 647 Attack, 750 Defense, 76 Agi (86 w/ Light Clothing) (+2.07 SD/+2.61 SD)
-->27 AP to transform, 14 AP to maintain
-->Cuts physical damage by 291 (80% factoring in ITD)
-->Nulls Fire, Wind, Water, Thunder, Earth, Statuses, ID and Draining, Takes 140% from Holy
-->100% Counter Rate

Attack- 444 Physical Damage (431 Base, 5% Crit Rate)
Charge- 516 Physical Damage (I’m not 100% sure on this…)

REI, L39

HP: 198…………………………..88.5% HP
AP: 64
STR: 206 (116 Base)
DEF: 203 (89 Base)………..Takes 2 extra damage (2.2%)
AGL: 68 (66 Base)..........+1.64 SD
INT: 92…………………………..Takes extra 3.5% damage and 3.6% weak to status (multiplicative)
Critical: 13% (5% Base)
Dodge: 25%
Accuracy: 100%
Counter: 6%

Slicer- 85 Attack, 1 Weight, Crit Hit Up 8%
Burglar Garb- 64 Attack, 0 Weight, 5 Agl <Force Armor- 64 Def, 6 Weight or Amber Plate-45 Def, 4 Weight- If you don't allow Burglar Garb, due to being a very late steal>
Spiked Gauntlets- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, 5 Power
Sun Mask- 22 Defense, 1 Weight, Halves Fire

Alternates:
Piercing Edge- 91 Attack, 4 Weight, Casts Weaken
Heat Shotel- 76 Attack, 3 Weight, Fire
Silver Knife- 12 Attack, 1 Weight, Holy

Manly Clothes- 10 Defense, 3 Weight, OPB Full Auto-Revive
-->These clothes break upon death. As such, you would need to see that being legal (storebought in game and not too expensive)

Mind Shield- 34 Defense, 3 Weight, Int +5, Halve Stat Down and MP Damage Hit Rate, Casts Leech Power
Protectors- 16 Defense, 1 Weight, Halve Status Accuracy

Attack- 77 (66  Base, 13% Crit) (75) (63 Fire) (8! Holy)
Myollnir- 137 Lightning Magic (141 w/ Mind Shield), 10 AP
Lightning- 42 MT Lightning Magic, 7 AP
Death- 34% Chance of ID, 5 AP
Slow- 49% Chance of 50% Speed Decrease,  1 AP
Silence- 44% Chance of Silence, 2 AP
Speed- 50% Speed Increase, Stacks to 100%, 2 AP
-->Once use basically lets him near EXA turn most DL enemies, two near guarantees it.

Weretiger- Triples overall attack (I believe); Automatically uses attack. First attack is always against enemy; after that in game Weretiger can also target allies (only targets enemies in a duel)
Attack- 440 (407 Base, 13% Crit) (442) (396 Fire) (234 Holy)
-->426 (394 Base) w/o Spiked Gauntlet

NINA, L39

HP: 148………………..66.2% HP
AP: 217
STR: 144 (71 Base)
DEF: 173 (69 Base)…….Takes extra 17 damage (19.1% extra)
AGL: 47 (53 Base).......+0.5 SD
INT: 154 (151 Base)…..Cuts magic by 10.9% and Cuts Status by 8.5% (Division)
Crit: 3%
Dodge: 12%
Accuracy: 100%
Nina naturally reduces Wind damage by 25%

Magician’s Rod- 20 Attack, 3 Int, 2 Weight
Holy Robe- 62 Defense, 3 Weight, Halve Status, ID, Draining and Stat Downs
Spiked Gauntlet- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, 5 Power
Gold Hairpin- 14 Defense, 0 Weight

Alternates:
Blessed Staff- 73 Attack, 3 Weight, Resists Death, *Casts Heal
Beryl Rod- 61 Attack, 5 Int, 4 Weight
Lacquer Staff- 50 Attack, 3 Weight, *Casts Silence
Ruby Scepter- 43 Attack, 3 Weight, Fire, Casts Flare
Wind Cutter- 34 Attack, 3 Weight, Wind, Casts Cyclone

Sage’s Frock- 53 Defense, 3 Weight, 5 Int
Robe of Wind- 41 Defense, 0 Weight, Halves Thunder, Reduces Wind by 75% (with her innate) and nulls Earth, Casts Speed
-->+0.67 SD Speed, Takes extra 28 from physicals (31.3% extra)
Protectors- 16 Defense, 1 Weight, Halve Status Accuracy (Null w/ Holy Robe)

Myollnir- 182 Lightning Magic (185 w/ Sage’s Frock) (180 w/ No Mag Boost Weapon) (183 w/ Beryl Rod) (186 w/ Sage’s Frock and Beryl Rod), 10 AP
Siccoro- 111 MT Fire/Wind Magic (Half of each), 12 AP
Blizzard- 73 MT Ice Magic, 10 AP
Blunt- 58% Chance 20% Decrease in Enemy Power, Stacks to 50%, 1 AP
-->Considering her division, this could be worse. Against endgame randoms, this might cut off about 40 damage (Note that this is 45% of an average damage of 0.4 PC HP damage, but an endgame random generally has an attack in the range of 240 attack…and this aspect will basically null any non ITD portion, and might cut damage in game against those it works against by about 60% and gets a little better against low attack. Given that Nina is often dealing with Light, I would say that against damage failures, this is definitely worth something).
Weaken- 58% Chance 20% Decrease in Enemy Defense, Stacks to 50%, 1 AP
Slow- 58% Chance of 50% Decrease, 1 AP
Drain- 20% CHP Draining, 39% Hit Rate, 3 AP
Leech Power- Some Type of AP draining, 0 AP, 39% Hit Rate
*Heal (Blessed Staff): 50 HP Healing
*Speed (Robe of Wind): Increases Speed 50%, Stacks to 100%
-->One casting almost allows to EXA average.
*Silence (Lacquer Staff)- 52% Silence

MOMO,  L38

HP: 185……………………...82.7% HP
AP: 138
STR: 312 (109 Base)
DEF: 184 (80 Base)……Takes extra 11 damage (12.4% extra)
AGL: 35 (40 Base).......-.14 SD
INT: 177 Base……………Cuts magic by 16.9% and cuts status by 13% (Division)
Reprisal: 0
Critical: 0
Dodge: 4
Accuracy: 70%

Atomic Bomb- 198 Attack, 1 Weight
Holy Robe- 62 Defense, 3 Weight, Halve Status, ID, Draining and Stat Downs   
Spiked Gauntlet- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, 5 Power
Gold Hairpin- 14 Defense, 0 Weight

Alternate Equips:
Confuse Shells- 118 Attack, 1 Weight, 41% Chance* of Confusion
Flash Shells- 96 Attack, 1 Weight, 41% Chance* Blindness
Sleep Shells- 80 Attack, 1 Weight, 41% Chance* Sleep
Flame Chrysm- 50 Attack, 1 Weight, Fire
Ice Weight- 50 Attack, 1 Weight, Ice
*This 41% is a little rough since it wasn’t really comforming to how other status accuracy was consistently.

Sage’s Frock- 53 Defense, 3 Weight, 5 Int
Light Clothing- 16 Defense, 1 Weight…(-0.4 SD, but takes 36 extra from Physicals (40%))
Spiked Gauntlet- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, 5 Power
Mind Shield- 34 Defense, 3 Weight, Int +5, Halve Stat Down and MP Damage Hit Rate, Casts Leech Power
Protectors- 16 Defense, 1 Weight, Halve Status (Null w/ Holy Robe)

Attack- 108 (149 Base, 70% Hit Rate) (108 w/o Spiked Gauntlet) (61) (49) (39) (22 Fire) (22 Ice)
Quake- 67 MT Earth Magic (71 w/ Mind Shield or Sage’s Frock, 74 w/ both), 7 AP
Ragnarok- 70 MT Magic/Physical (Checks both Mdef and Def in full) (74 w/ Mind Shield or Sage’s Frock, 77 w/ both), 12 AP
Restore- 332 Healing, +7 to Speed for turn (Doesn’t effect EXAs though), 12 AP
Vitalize- 110 MT Healing, 20 AP
Rejuvenate- 110 Healing, 7 AP
Heal- 55 Healing, 4 AP
Raise Dead- 70%? Chance of Restoring Minimal HP to a dead ally, 10 AP
Remedy- Cures Status, 7 AP
Silence- 55% Chance of Silence, 2 AP
Sleep- 55% Chance of Sleep, 3 AP
Confuse- 55% Chance of Confuse, 2 AP

Protect- 20% Defense Increase, Stacks to 100%, 2 AP
-->Cuts Physicals by 9/29/49/69/90 (Factoring in ITD, this a 10%/32%/55%/77.5%/80% factoring in ITD portion)
Speed- Boosts Speed by 50%, Stacks to 100% 2 AP
Might- 26% Attack Raised, Stacks to 100%, 4 AP
-->Makes Average Damage 155 (221 on hit)/201 (288 on hit)/248 (355 on hit)/288 (412 on hit)
Confuse Shells: 96 (138)/131 (188)/166 (237)/196 (280)
Flash Shells: 80 (115)/112 (160)/144 (205)/170 (243)
Sleep Shells: 69 (98)/98 (140)/127 (182)/152 (217)
Flame/Ice Chrysm: 47 (67)/71 (102)/96 (137)/117 (167)

PECO, L39

HP: 329………………..….147.1%
AP: 120
STR: 232 (154 Base)
DEF: 198 (122 Base)…..…Takes 4 extra damage (4.5% extra)
AGL: 18 (25 Base)..........-1.06 SD
INT: 41…………………..……..Takes 16.6% Extra and adds 12.3% to Status (Multiplicative)
Crit: 3%
Dodge: 0%
Accuracy: 90%
Counter: 50%
Regens 5% of his HP at the end of each turn
Peco naturally halves Death element (ID and draining)

Death Claws- 73 Attack, 1 Weight, Chance of ID
Amber Breastplate- 45 Defense, 4 Weight
Spiked Gauntlets- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, 5 Power
Glass Domino- 6 Defense, 1 Weight

Alternate Equips:
Rockbreaker- 55 Attack, 1 Weight, Earth element

Lacquer Shield- 33 Def, 3 Weight
Protectors- 16 Defense, 1 Weight, Halve Status
Bandana- 1 Defense, 0 Weight

Attack -80 Damage (87 Base, 3% Crit, 90% Base Accuracy) (60 Earth (66 Base))
Dream Breath- 38% Sleep, 3 AP
Venom Breath- 38% Poison, 3 AP
Rejuvenate- 56 Healing, +7 to Speed for turn (Doesn’t effect EXAs though), 7 AP
Icebreath- Peco’s CHP/3 Ice Damage
Firebreath- Peco’s CHP/3 Fire Damage

GARR, L37

HP:  255……………………..114% HP
AP: 25
STR: 277 (162 Base)
DEF: 234 (119 Base)……Cuts by 15 damage (16.8% to average damage)
AGL: 20 (34 Base)………..-0.95 SD
INT: 59………………………..Takes 13.5% extra and multiplies status hit rate by 10%
Crit: 8%
Dogde: 4%
Accuracy: 90%
Counter: 16%
Garr naturally halves Fire damage

Dragon’s Spear- 110 Attack, 6 Weight, Dragon Slayer
Force Armor- 65 Defense, 6 Weight, Reverses Stat Downs and MP Damage cast on Garr
Spiked Gauntlets- 28 Defense, 1 Weight, 5 Power
Sun Mask- 22 Defense, 1 Weight, Boosts Garr’s Fire damage to nullification

Alternate Equips:
Beast Spear- 150 Attack, 15 Weight, Drains 1/20 of Garr’s max HP per turn
Gungnir- 99 Attack, 10 Weight, Accuracy Up
Aries Spear- 88 Attack, 4 Weight, Devil Slayer (Double against Devils)
Gale Javelin- 68 Attack, 4 Weight,Wind
Flying Spear- 50 Attack, 2 Weight   

Light Clothing- 16 Defense, 1 Weight (-.68 SD, but takes 12 extra from Physicals (13.4%)
Protectors- 16 Defense, 1 Weight, Halve Status Accuracy

Attack- 120 (125 Base, 8% Crit, 90% Accuracy) (151 w/ Beast Spear) (127) (103) (87 Wind) (67)
Pyrokinesis- Fire version of basic physical; 1 AP
Gambit- 100% Critical if hit, 25% Hit Rate (Hey…this…might ignore enemy evade?!?!) (290 damage with Beast Spear)
Kyrie- ID against Holy weak enemies. Against an enemy who is 100% weak, the hit rate is 59% (I believe), 5 AP
Inferno- 45 Fire Magic, 10 AP

[Dhyerwolf]

Averages
HP
Peco- 329
Garr- 255
Ryu- 227
Rei- 198
Momo- 185
Nina- 148
Average: 223.7

Def
Ryu- 250
Garr- 234
Rei- 203
Peco- 198
(Garr- 196 w/ Light Clothing)
Momo- 184
Nina- 173
Average: 207

Int (MDef)
Momo- 177, Cuts magic by 16.9% and status by 13%
Nina- 154, Cuts magic by 10.9% and status by 8.5%
Ryu- 132, Cuts magic by 5.3% (198 IRT) and status by 3.2%
Rei- 92, Takes extra 3.5% from Magic and adds 3.6% to Status
Garr- 59, Takes extra 13.5% from Magic and adds 10% to Status
Peco- 47, Takes extra 16.6% from Magic and adds 12.3% to Status
Average: 110

Agi
Rei- 68 (+1.64 SD) <57 or 59 w/o Burglar Garb> <+1.4>
Nina- 47 (+0.5 SD) <+.74 w/o BG>
Ryu- 38 (+0.02 SD) <+.14 w/o BG>
Momo- 35 (-.14 SD) <-.05 w/o BG>
Garr- 20 (-0.95 SD) <-1.05 w/o BG>
Peco- 18 (-1.06 SD) <-1.17 w/o BG>
Average: 37.67 (18.51 SD)

Damage Average
Ryu- 717 (369 using best relatively spammable with an AP sense)
Rei- 293
Nina- 182
Garr- 120
Momo- 104
Peco- 80
Average: 249 (623) (191 with 478 Kill Point)

[Dhyerwolf]

So, I assumed that master usage was probably adding about 15 to down Agi stats and maybe half that to Agi. I obviously didn't play with Masters at all, so any feedback is certainly welcome. Maybe another plus 5-10 in stats. More important if the factor that Masters have on the damage average. Aura and Shadowwalk allow everyone to double their physical damage some way or another.

As such, the Master Average Looks More Like
Ryu: ~750 (Unlike the PCs, I have less compunction about holding the best Ryu to the bosses).
Rei: ~320
Momo: ~300
Garr: ~250
Nina: ~200
Peco: ~200
Since Ryu is forced, the average is about 420 (Little Less for Teepo)

TEEPO
Stats:
Level: 120
HP: 12500
AP: 500
Strength: 315
Defense: 140...(Cuts damage by about 25 in the DL curve)
Agility: 41...About 33% of the time, Teepo went before Ryu and Momo (but not Rei). 67% of the time he went last. May increase to near average below 50% HP, but not sure.
Intelligence: 150 (Dead average to magi)
Reverses Status, ID and draining attacks. Nulls stat downs.

PC HP: 225
PC Def: 235
PC Int: 115
PC Agi: 42
PC Damage Average: ~400

Attack- 98 Damage (66+32 ITD)
Triple Blow- 156 Physical (22+32 ITD x3), ~80% Hit Rate to Average Evasion
Howling- 84% MT Confusion (I believe; Confusion is an anti-mage attack in that in a duel it will force a confused character to just use basic physicals. Wears off after 2-3 turns or taking a physical attack)
Inferno- 79 MT Fire Magic
Blizzard- 79 MT Ice Magic
Sirocco (Below 50%HP): 118 MT Wind/Fire Magic

MYRIA
Level: 120
HP: 20000
AP: 10000
Strength: 305
Defense: 100....(Takes extra 40 in the DL curve)
Agility: 52 (In effect, goes before all PCs 33% of time before 50% HP, 67% after. After 50% HP, appears to be in more the average range)
Intelligence: 150 (Dead average to magic)
Reverses Status, Stat Downs, ID and draining attacks

PC HP: 235
PC Def: 245
PC Int: 120
PC Agi: 45
PC Damage Average: ~420

Attack- 81 Physical (49+32 ITD), Decent Accuracy (Didn’t see any misses)
Sanctuary- Field effect Dispel
Venom- MT 62.5% Chance of Blind, Posion and Confuse (Separate Checks)
Inferno- 78 MT Fire Magic
Blizzard- 78 MT Ice Magic
Sirocco- 117 MT Fire/Wind Magic
Evil Eye- 62.5% Chance of Paralysis (Fatal)
Myollnir (Below 50% HP)- 195 Lightning Magic
Holocaust (Below 50% HP)- 117 MT Magic
Restore (Below 50% HP)- 300 Healing
Death (Below 25% HP)- 80% Theoretically, but I’m betting that for some reason it comes out to 62.5%

[Dhyerwolf]

So all the data is now added

--Healing spells seem to increase speed by 7 (but don't help with EXAs, so I would view them as a temporary boost that didn't really help with doubling)
--I believe Bonebreak is a 2.5x mult to attack before defense. I know that it came up earlier that frequency might not matter because it's generally not needed in the DL, but given how Ryu's overall duelling package came out, I bet it would make a difference in a few matches potentially (I still don't allow it, way too infrequent with too little ability to use it)
--Bosses are added!
--I added in the form Tiamat per request since there is a theoretical use (but you probably need to not hurt it much in terms of scaling damage and HP given that it replaces a full party in order for it to have a purpose).

[Dhyerwolf]

Few extra little notes and a topic for discussion

The Shadow gene gives a 5 in Death/Status resistance. Shadow+Thorn makes Ryu immune. A few Dragons have been shifted around to reflect better choices.

Burglar's Garb could be seen as illegal. It's a rare drop of 1/128, but it can also be stolen. Looking at the BMG, the steal rate looks like about 15% on a relatively easy to find enemy. The steal part makes me still find it legal, but it's also worth noting that the enemy you steal it from it right before Myria. If you don't allow it or don't hold others to it in the average, Rei's speed falls by 11 points (Ironically though, Rei getting slower ends up making Peco and Garr slower as well...more on that topic somewhere else though).

Every enemy physical attack has an ITD component that makes up approximately 20-25% of the attack on average. This means that there is no attack in game that defense can fully null; it can only get about 75% to 80% of the attack. You could see this as a innate limitation of BoF 3's defense and carry this over to the DL; as such, IRT Ryu would have a Pdur of 12-15 PC HP instead of basically infinite. This meshes with the in game effect better (Especially in the case of Wildfire), as I am sure that this was a functional design choice in order to make massive Defense not physically immune.

[Pyro]

Worth commenting on:

While the endgame averages for Psi/Status/ID defense are decently high (2.8/3/3 from the Factory through Desert of Death and up to Myria), I think 3/3.5/4 is excessive. Throughout the entire game from the point you actually can start using status skills, the average is 2.3/2.7/2.8. This is including randoms who immune status outright. The median/mode is '2'.
An important point that can make this trend higher: All robots are status/ID immune and all undead are ID immune. Makes sense that one would exclude them along with bosses (and the likes of the dreaded Goo King).

This status resist value is incredibly important to the likes of Momo/Nina/Rei.

I feel that the Force Armor should be included as an option for Ryu/Rei/etc. It gives MP damage reversal that doesn't compete with Protectors status help.

For those who care, the storebought accessories that the cast would want to default to would either be the Titan Belts (+10 Str) or the Wisdom Rings (+20 Int). They can use two accessories so trade that as need be. Wisdom Rings would improve Status Odds.

As Dhyer noted, Healing abilities have +7 speed attached. Also, Assist abilities (all Buffs/Status) have +4 Speed. So Momo's Sleep, Rei's ID, Ryu's Barrier and so on should be a little faster.

[Dhyerwolf]

Factory and Desert of Death enemies must have horrible, horrible resistance, because the average starting from the start of the relatively long final dungeon are 3.1/3.6/3.9 (3/3.4/3.6 if you factor out Clone) factoring out any enemy that immune and enemies that only Ryu can face (also Goo King isn't in the average anyways since there is an assumption that you aren't killing 1 regardless)...and enemies that are horrible and can be OHKOed by anyone. I don't include Clone because...OHKOed by everyone at 0 AP except for Nina is...horrible (not to mention they kind of suck at everything else). If you are including Eye Goo in the average, you deserve to have things thrown at you and I hope I don't have to explain why. Even at 3.6, I don't have a problem taking Death worse because...Rei seriously gets it at like L37. I guess you could see the hit rate on Nina's drains being higher.

Force Armor has the problem of being super expensive for a very limited effect (you can at least see it in the final dungeon very occasionally; status and death are pretty good to block). Buying 2 will basically leave you with near 0 money (assuming you also want to at least buy basics that matter).

Momo loves Sleep having a speed boost though.

[Pyro]

               Psi   Stat   Death
Insector   2   1   2
DragonFly   2   2   0
Egg Gang   2   2   4
Hobgob   1   2   5
Pipe Bmb  2     2   2
Giant Orc   1   1   1
MagMaite   4   5   6
Scorpion   2   2   4
Cactii   2   2   3
Armor   5   5   
Nitemar   4   6   
Adept   3   4   5
RedDrak   4   4   5
IceDrak   4   4   5
Newt   3   4   5
Clone   1   1   1
Hopper   2   2   2
FoulWeed   2   3   4
Plant42   2   2   2
Wraith   6   6   
Mad Gong   1   1   1
VileWeed   4   5   2
Thanatos   4   4   
NightBat   2   2   2
Mist Man   5   5   
Revenant   3   3   

Average: (2.8/3/3)
Median: 2.3/2.7/2.8

Discounting Undead from Death averages and Robots from both. From the time you can start slinging status it'd be...
Average: (2.3/2.7/2.8)
Median: 2/2/2

You weren't including the boss rush were you? I would take the ability to status them as a perk rather than a sign that the status hit-rate should be derated.

I'd just use the Median, and let the target's own ID res apply. I get wanting to nerf status in the DL, but I don't think the "Use final dungeon randoms which are unusually resistant to status" thing works all that well. It certainly seems that the 'default' resistance to status is '2' and that higher numbers are 'resisting' that status. Enemy Mdef already serves as a target stat to drop the hit-rate, and we assumed average Mdef (Though in that case Int over 250 DOES serve a purpose so the average is higher than what is used for damage?).

Using 2 as the baseline raises debuff/status/ID odds to 66%+ usually, giving a significant boon to Nina/Rei/Momo/Peco ( If you allow 'default' accessories Peco would need Wisdom Rings to raise his odds to that level, which would hurt his damage somewhat). It's a big deal for them, since they aren't winning through damage (except for maybe Rei but he is backended so not all that much).

[Dhyerwolf]

I was...level 28, IIRC when entering the Desert of Death. Endgame is level 40. Certainly including anything before Desert of Death in an endgame average feels very off to me. Insector and Dragonfly look like they are even before the Factory at that. I didn't include the boss rush (I just included Armor to Revenant, backing out Clone, Mad Gong, Vile Weed and Thanatos; Clone as I noted is OHKOed for free by any non-Nina person; the other three are in Ryu only sections). Also missing for Desert of Death is Drak (4/5/7; making DoD averages 3/3.5/4.33); obviously including Desert of Death really doesn't do much to move the needle from where I have it. So basically, you really need to include enemies from a time where you are still to gain about 30% of your levels. Sometimes things get worse in the last 30% of level gaining in a lot of games; I don't have an issue with making an exception, but it would comprehensively need to be applied to all sorts of games then.

I'll have to check my notes at home regarding the effect on status above 250 (I don't remember how it worked and how I factored it); obviously if the cap doesn't apply and I didn't factor it in that manner, this might all be a wash.

I could see it lower, but setting the average to 2 from 2.8 feels like a pretty big difference since that's a free 25% improvement in hit rates.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Using the median doesn't seem appropriate here? Median is a fairly screwy thing to use with discrete values, as it's easy to shift by a large amount (adding an extra enemy or two to the average could change the median from 2 to 3 which is huge). The median is most useful when most values are clustered near the centre anyway, as a means of controlling outliers. Such is not the case here. The mean is much more appropriate in situations where outliers have already been controlled are are non-existant.

Also, as someone who tried to use it, lol at BoF3 Death being turn 1.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Dhyer already factored out immunity, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that comment. We absolutely do include "resistances" though? I mean lots of games use 100 as the base accuracy for status and then use resistance/stats to bring that down, you'd get kicked in the face if you hyped WA4 Arnaud's sleep as 100% just because mechanically enemies use resistance to lower that number.

I'm not sure what useless in-game status you're thinking of? The only cases I'm aware of which have really gotten a lot of complaints are when most enemies immune a status (e.g. FF4 final dungeon), since the model the DL generally uses tosses out said immunes. But we absolutely hold status against its in-game resistance levels; and this wouldn't be the first game where the endgame makes status worse in that regard (e.g. Shadow Hearts, FF5).

[Dhyerwolf]

(Though in that case Int over 250 DOES serve a purpose so the average is higher than what is used for damage?).

Double checked; no Int above 375 (on defense matters). No int above 250 matters (on the offensive side of status). For a few reasons, of scaling, Int for status reasons should be slightly higher, but not by a super large amount. I would say that works out well enough to cancel out status resistances possibly being a tad high.

[Pyro]

I was glancing at Def/Agi tradeoffs and realized that the listed "Reduces damage by" numbers here assume a nebulous party def to average it with. It seems to reduce defense effectiveness 50%...

Since the PC's def is 33% of the party def, the effectiveness would be 66.7% if you wanted to account for two 'invisible average party members"

It is probably best to ignore party def in this format, in the sense that the "unrealized benefit/penalty" of the PC's defense (that 1/3rd) is in fact realized, namely by the other 2 PCs in a party. A fair way to represent that would be to just ignore party def entirely, and force the PC (in a duel) to eat the entirety of their own def stat.

Also the "% reduction" is taken against the enemy with the absolute highest Atk (besides superboss Berserker), Teepo? If one includes a range of enemies then defense is considerably more effective. (To Nina's chagrin)

[Dhyerwolf]

In fairness, it does in fact decrease effectiveness of defense of one person has on that particular person since in game since it does literally mean that 33% of your defense stat is determined by your allies (then makes up by effecting the other PCs). The party defense isn't nebulous though, it's just whatever the average is of the default "best" setups (while there could always be variation of what someone determined to be the best, that's true of every game).

You can ignore it, but I'd take a real to in game approach to be far preferable to being forced into a non in game situation duel.

[Pyro]

The point I made though was that a significant part of the Party Def is being ignored here... that of how the PC contributes to their team's durability and how this setup allows them to 'get away with it'. Party Def helps Nina to some extent, but only because she makes her team-mates frailer.  If you want to be faithful, a fair way to include that aspect is to make her eat the damage difference... just ignore Party def entirely. There's also the take that this is usually a 1v1 format, and that such party dynamics aren't really at play. Both should lead to the same conclusion.

Funny how that works out, really.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I think I agree with Pyro here, the party defence thing is something we can safely ignore in the DL, because the in-game effect balances it out.

To make up some numbers to illustrate, let's say that Ryu has a Def stat which causes him to reduce damage by 30. Suppose his two allies are completely average on defence. Due to party defence, Ryu's actual reduction is the average between average party reduction (-10) and his own personal reduction (-30), so he cuts 20 off of physicals. Buuut putting Ryu in the party also raises the party's average Def, so the effect on his allies is that their reduction is now the average of the average party reduction (again, -10) and their own natural reduction (0), so in other words they now reduce physicals by 5 each.

By adding Ryu to your party instead of a third average PC (or equipping him for this level of defence), the net change to the party's damage taken is exactly the same as if party Def didn't exist, -30 in total = -10 on average.


And of course, in an actual duel (which can occur in-game, see the final dungeon dream sequence), the "party average defence" is just the defence of that one person anyway.

[Pyro]

BoF3 has a weight system that lets PCs sacrifice defense for Agility by equipping weaker, lighter gear. Let me throw out some setups with alterations on Agility/Defense, along with the actual impact of those affects. For this I am throwing out the Burglar Garb for Rei, as it has no 'trade-off' to make, and it is a hard steal (~10% or less normally) off an enemy that you're not likely to see much of. We allow FAQ-baity stuff but the affect on averages/Rei's durability-agility tradeoff is not in keeping with the rest of the game (also, the speed boost isn't terribly useful as Rei outspeeds everything regardless. It may allow an EX-turn against a handful of enemies with 1 Speed spell instead of 2).

I constructed a "Physical durability Modifier" based on what the defense would do against a solo attack by an array of endgame enemies, nixing the failures like Clone, ones that can't attack, and then weighting Myria/Teepo twice.

I'll list a 'damage mod'. Divide incoming damage by that for the real affect (so higher=better)

For averages these 'tweaks' are held against, the PC altering their gear is held against the other PC's defaults. But I'm including the agility change of the PC in question in the average (keeps stdevs from balooning in strange ways). For the Defense of the PC in question, I use the 'default' average when it gets worse, and I include it when it gets better. This is harsh in the sense that the new (better) agility is in the average, but the new (worse) def is not.

Healing spells get a 7 Agi boost (~+0.46 stdev)
Buff/Status spells get a 4 Agi boost (~+0.27 stdev)

Averages assuming default setups listed...
Speed: 36.1 (15.1 stdev)
Defense: 206.1

Ryu:
Seeking Sword/Dragon Armor/Spiked Gauntlets/Dragon Helm: 38 Agi (+0.12stdev), 250def (1.99 mod)
Alt: Seeking/Amber Bplate/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 41 Agi (+0.29stdev), 214def (1.16 mod)
Alt: Seeking/Light Clothing/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 44 Agi (+0.44stdev), 171def (0.69 mod)
Alt: Feather Sword/Bracers/Bandana: 48 Agi (+0.64 stdev), 102def (0.42 mod), Loses 67 Atk.
Alt: Seeking/Dragon Armor/Dragon Shield/Dragon Helm: 36 Agi (0stdev), 264 def (2.3 mod), -5 Atk

Rei:
Slicer/Force Armor/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 57 Agi (+1.38 stdev), 203def, 0.99 mod
Alt: Slicer/Royal Armor/Mind Shield/Sun Mask: 54 Agi (+1.25stdev), 217 def (1.18 mod), -5 Atk
Alt: Slicer/Amber Bplate/SPiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 60 Agi (+1.47stdev), 183 def (0.78 mod)
Alt: Slicer/Light Clothing/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 62 Agi (+1.51stdev), 155 def (0.60 mod)
Alt: Slicer/Bracers/Bandana: 65 Agi (+1.58 stdev), 91 def (0.39 mod)

Nina:
Pointy Stick/Holy Robe/Spiked Gauntlets/Gold Hairpin: 48 Agi (+0.79stdev), 173def (0.70 mod)
Alt: Pointy Stick/Force Armor/Spiked Gauntlets/Gold Hairpin: 45 Agi (+0.64stdev), 176def (0.72 mod)
Alt: Pointy Stick/Robe of Wind/Spiked Gauntlets/Gold Hairpin: 51 Agi (+0.92stdev), 152def (0.58 mod)

Momo:
Atomic Bomb/Holy Robe/Spiked Gauntlets/Gold Hairpin: 35 Agi (-0.08stdev), 184def (0.79 mod)
Alt: Atomic Bomb/Force Armor/Mind Shield/Gold Hairpin: 30 Agi (-0.35stdev), 193def (0.85 mod)
Alt: Atomic Bomb/Light Clothing/Spiked Gauntlets/Gold Hairpin: 37 Agi (+0.03stdev), 138 def (0.52 mod)
Alt: Atomic Bomb/Bracers/Gold Hairpin: 39 Agi (+0.14stdev), 95 Def (0.40 mod), -5 Atk

Momo's defense modifier as she pumps up her default Pdef with Protect is... (1.27, 2.15, 3.48, 4.44)

Peco:
Death Claws/Amber Bplate/Spiked Gauntlets/Bandana: 19 Agi (-1.14stdev), 193 def (0.87 mod)
Alt: Death Claws/Amber Bplate/Laquer Shield/Knight's Helm: 15 Agi (-1.28stdev), 205 def (0.99 mod), -5 Atk
Alt: Death Claws/Spiked Gauntlets/Bandana: 23 Agi (-0.97stdev), 151 def (0.58 mod)

Garr:
Dragon's Spear/Force Armor/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 20 Agi (-1.07stdev), 234 def (1.56 mod)
Alt: Dragon Spear/Royal Armor/Giant Shield/Sun Mask: 15 Agi (-1.25stdev), 258 def (2.11 mod), -5 atk
Alt: Dragon Spear/Amber Bplate/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 22 Agi (-0.99stdev), 214 def (1.16 mod)
Alt: Dragon Spear/Light Clothing/Spiked Gauntlets/Sun Mask: 25 Agi (-0.85stdev), 185 def (0.80 mod)
Alt: Dragon Spear/Bracers/Bandana: 28 Agi (-0.70stdev), 121 def (0.47 mod)

These are tradeoffs for averaged stats. When the cast makes a tradeoff for something else (say, Protectors status resitance or a specific weapon to hit weakness), the default averages should be used (so they take more of a penalty to get that shiny status resistance.

If anyone wants these with Rei's Burglar Garb I'll grab it.