Author Topic: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2  (Read 1562 times)

Cmdr_King

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DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« on: December 01, 2014, 07:19:04 AM »
Refer back to the Noms Topic for setups.  Any dueller with an * has a Twink build.

Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0)
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) (1-0)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1)
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0)

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0)
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1)
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1)

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0)
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0)
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0)

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1)
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0)
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1)
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SnowFire

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2014, 07:57:26 AM »
Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0) - Basically immunes all Yunalesca's damage.  If Mantle/Nihil immunes Bane, close enough for immuning Absorb.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1) - If Lucian has ~7 lives or so, that's plenty, he basically OHKOs each piece.  Kill the status piece first.
Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0) - Goes first, makes Ryu explode presumably.

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0) - Uhhh depends entirely on L2 status hit rates.  If no status is turn 1, Tiz wins easily.  If 1 status is turn 1, Tiz blocks it and wins but with a cut to his Meteor damage so it's closer.  If Maxim has 2 match-winning turn 1 statuses he probably wins (unless they're both barely turn 1 and affected by MDef twinking or something).  super?  (Checking a webpage, there's Drowsy, Destroy, & Confuse for sleep/ID/confuse...)  Mirror is irrelevant, Meteor pierces reflect.  EDIT: No status turn 1?  'k.  Also re Jo'ou, Tiz loses a *lot* of damage if he wants to be faster than Maxim who now has Artea-level speed....
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1) - Possibly OHKOs Terra's MP, otherwise breaks her Enhancer to stave off lethal damage I suspect while blocking Petrify.

Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0) - Panedemona with Initiative & Str +40%, bust Yuffie's face open.  Nice Mystile evade there Yuffie, shame if Mr. ITE crit physicals were to attack.  (Alternatively, if you want to hype Yuffie as surviving that, Squall can troll with Leviathan & Spr+40% & Recover to shrug off Yuffie's attacks.  Junction Haste to E-Atk & Aura to E-Def, Haste, spam Recover vs. Yuffie's summons, cast Aura on the first double turn, Limit on the next.)  EDIT: Eh, don't buy FF8 insta-double hype and SPR-twinking is apparently out, but there's HP-twinking too, so whatever, Squall wins this one a lot of ways.
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0) - uh, no FF4 advance, but even with Citan's elemental deathblows absorbed, surely.  (I'm presuming that Edge's status game is out here, so the one turn he maybe gets isn't useful.)

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1) - Blows away Chaos Shield!!1!
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0) - Auto-Potion + Screaming.
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1) - This is probably a confusing speed-off, isn't it?
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 12:07:44 AM by SnowFire »

Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2014, 08:12:21 AM »
Yuffie's offense is actually entirely ITD (all three Bahamut spells are).  Not that Squall doesn't have some stalling options, for starters while Mega/Giga/Tera Flare are ITD they don't bypass Shell, but yeah pumping his Spirit is a waste here.
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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2014, 12:22:41 PM »
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) - Well, for starters, Slow vulnerability risks rearing its ugly head in once again, though it's not -hugely- relevant before at least Alternis' second turn, and Isolde also wants to avoid ramming into Alternis' limit phase if that's the case. Mainly, what she wants to do is goading Alternis into Pillar Bunker phase, in which she starts quadra-turning his ass due to the insane recharge on the move, and considering how he can't really chip her down to avoid that range (he uh 4HKOs her at -best-) unless he's in Minus Strike phase (which uh overkills her pretty grossly), I think it's pretty safe to say she just trolls him and chips herself with a bunch of options (after all, she starts dumping OHKO-level damage even at full HP by her second turn with Grand Gaze spamming and she likely lands Slow just before Alternis' second turn, in which he's still above 50% range. Not to mention he unlocks her Ancient Secret phase with his first turn alone, pretty much, unless he wants to 5HKO her... and it doesn't really matter). Once again, Alternis speed dooms him against a high Godlike.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1) - Don't think the Beast Rune can really lock Lucian down in able time.
Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0) - sure, ohko

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0) - Tiz  should outspeed Maxim without a huge fuss (in this setup, Maxim isn't even as fast as DL Artea) with Time Mage running Speed +30%, Speed +10% and M. Atk +10%. Dual rods + Mage's Hat also should grant him the extra offensive oomph to guarantee a KO, since Maxim mdur isn't much of a thing. Much simpler than Snowfire makes it out, really.
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1) - Millenia can -at least- live long enough to land a SBE string under this setup, I think.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1) - sigh
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1) - lulz

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0) - ~Du-al-cast Graaaaaa-vi-gaaaaaaa~ => ~Du-al-cast Meeeee-te-ooooooooooor~
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0) - Cerberus, jack up HP, Strength and Speed up to insanity (or at least to beat Yuffie speed), junction Aura somewhere, open with that, lol renzokuken. In fact, Squall could just equip Auto-Haste to make this whole thing even dumber: twink for mad speed and Str, instadouble Aura into Renzokuken, fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0) - EDIT: Edge's defense is that good? Huh.

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1) - All the lols.
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0) - Abandon+a good shield makes Empy's offense suck and she gets 2HKOed by Math Skill Holy/Flare, pretty surely.
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1) - Gale Rune ensures Miakis goes first, but... the problem is making damage stick while the threat of Valiant looms by, since Miakis doesn't really get enough of a magical load to ensure a 2HKO, let alone a OHKO, on Ginny's brutally enhanced durability (no L5 Rune is storebought). No rune setup can keep Miakis mdur from being somewhat sketchy, and even her accuracy can't really stand up to Ginny's gross evade boost under this setup. To make things worse, Virginia can immune Silence with a PS here, I'm pretty sure, so Silent Lake strats won't work. My kneejerk is Miakis won't really work this out too swimmingly: an offensive setup will get her OHKOed by Phantasmic Heart (she already has sketchy mdur, the durability hits granted by the offense runes will make her explode) and she certainly won't KO first against the evade+HP combo.
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1) - My stars.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 11:39:52 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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superaielman

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2014, 01:42:00 PM »
No Lufia 2 status is turn 1 besides weapon ID, which Maxim doesn't have in the DL.
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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2014, 07:53:40 PM »
Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) - You need to immune draining (or gravity depending how I feel I guess) to immune Absorb to me, neither of which are things FE does, immuning ID/HP-1 is nowhere near good enough even before considering that Nihil only applies to skill activations anyways. e: but counters means it doesn't really matter, right
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) - Should be able to live long enough to do the job.
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) - le ohko

Millenia (Grandia II)* vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) - I suppose.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) - yep
Arceus (Pokémon) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) - um.

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* - well that's just gross.
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* - literally nothing matters here because 100 WA5 damage means Rebecca can't break Distortion ever.
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* - sure
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)* - w e l p e: oh right, going up by half a dozen defense mults on top of the raw defense, sure, that works.

Miakis (Suikoden V)* vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* - sure
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 04:51:48 AM by Random Consonant »

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 12:30:53 AM »
Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1)
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0)

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0)
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1)
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1)

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0)
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0)
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0) - Yeah I should've actually checked what Edge's setup was.

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1) - Waves of Ice counters Chaos Shield, so they're both wasted turns. I'm inclined to see the Captain as being a better slugger.
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0)
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1) - I tend to factor Agni into HP consideration these days, but I don't think that even matters...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 01:05:12 AM by Nephrite »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 02:18:28 AM »
[Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0): Yeah uh Dheginsea immunes like three status effects and even those immunities are shaky (since what he's actually immuning is activated skills like Aether and unblessed weapons). Aeons immune like 20 different statuses on the other hand. Annnd they get hit by Absorb just fine. And it's mechnically impossible to immune Absorb in FFX anyways. So, see Random. EDIT: Nah, regen and counters take it, see below.
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) (1-0): See Snow.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1): Have to think Guts+AC holds out long enough for this.
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0): Ryu's pretty tanky so you'd need pretty impressive physical twinking to OHKO him, and I don't recall how good Atlas Rings are. Most people seem to be kneejerking that way which probably means "pretty damm good" though... EDIT: oh wait Levantine, okay yeah then definitely.

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0): All the meteors.
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1): Life Up should let her survive T2 turn 1 nonsense, and from there... uhhh... yeah I guess she slowly, slowly wins? Honestly running out of SP might be an issue. Still, with the speed and SP boosters... she can probably do SBE and two spells, six times, which should be enough damage even against T2, provided SBE is viewed as sealing off SelfRepair. Which sure why not.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1): Yep.
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1): Don't get into a buffing contest with Arceus.

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0): Peach isn't OHKOing regardless of Troopa Pin, so Lenna should be able to gravity/Meteor/Return her to death at worst.
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0): Distortion hype? Haha.
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0): Probably. I'm not sure how to scale Squall (beyond being very certain that FF8 basic physical do not OHKO good HP ever) but chances are HP junctions let him avoid a one-rounding if only barely (Spirit is useless). And... it may not matter, since Pandemona's Aura strategy probably works, assuming FF8 initiative is good.
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0): Non-hyper DBs are worse, but not THAT much worse.

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1): They have similar durability, which is impressive, but Ghaleon wins damage quite badly I think. Captain Crow's best is physical which is not the way to go against Ghaleon. Not... as bad a fight as you might think, though.
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0): Defence Up and Auto-Potion plus some magic damage, should be fine.
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1): Yeah, the physical twinking won't work against the evade, but I see no reason FUNERAL WIND won't do its thing here. WA3 MDef is a garbage stat so no hype there, Gale Wind lets her go first... but hmm, right, Status Lock is a thing. And Reflect. Sure, that should give her what she needs, I think. May be forgetting something S5 runes can do, but *shrug*
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1): Well Luther does half lightning IIRC but that so isn't enough.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 03:57:30 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 03:26:44 AM »
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1)  Later

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0)  High MDef can screw over Meteor but Bahamut laughs at it regardless.

Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0)
Cerberus: Ultima on Strength,  Triple on Speed, Aura wherever.  With +60% speed on top of the junction combined with Auto-Haste, this ought to give the two turns needed to Aura and Renzokuken.

Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs ]Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0)
How many turns does Citan have off the bat?  3?  4?  EDIT: I misjudged Edge's durability.  I'll even go with idea that Edge dodges all the non Deathblow hits.  So Citan uses his 4 AP Deathblow (storing 3 AP each time) for 1 damage except when he needs to heal or on every 9th attacking turn where he unleashes a Combo for a whopping 6 damage.  Still needs to land several thousand separate hits; Edge starves him of EP before that.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 07:22:52 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 03:56:56 AM »
Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0)- Well, if Yunalesca got Absorb against bosses (unless they immuned gravity), she would be way too powerful a level for this tournament anyways (not like I allow it, but kills any durability in 3 hits while staying alive pretty well at that time is more than most Godlikes can handle. Basically need to OHKO her for the most part, which works for like Zophar.
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) (1-0)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1)
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0)- Oh...oops at Claude versus Arceus. Levantine AND Atlas Ring. Arceus was not going to actually get a second turn because it was going to be OHKOed.

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0)
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1)

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0)- Lololololol. Labby has gotten like the luckiest draw so far. One match that she probably only really wins based on hitting an elemental weakness (the only elemental weakness basically in the tourney!) and this one off of the lolziness of Rebecca's damage running into her completely worthless (other than this!) skill.
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0)
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0)

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1)
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0)
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1)- Not 100% sure here, but I think Jade hits Luther into the IP limit, eats massive damage. Of course...the key being that we don't really know how many hits it does, so could be wrong here. Might think more if the vote mattered.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 06:59:23 PM by Dhyerwolf »
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 04:03:13 AM »
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0)- Strongly leaning this way. Edge can do damage here, and Citan can't ever against that kind of defense.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 08:11:47 AM »
Any estimates on Edge's defense potency Super?
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 01:08:53 PM »
Quote from: SnowFire
Mirror is irrelevant, Meteor pierces reflect.  EDIT: No status turn 1?  'k.  Also re Jo'ou, Tiz loses a *lot* of damage if he wants to be faster than Maxim who now has Artea-level speed....

Not... really? You listed a dual-rod+only Mag +10% setup that still has Tiz dealing at least nearly 8k damage per Meteor, which is certainly more than enough to fell Maxim of the unspecial either way mdur even against the high-damage averages. I mean, if he goes -Thief-, due to the awful mag bases, sure why not, but he shouldn't even have to leave Time Mage to outpace Maxim, just Speed +10% and Speed +30%...
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2014, 12:07:37 AM »
Jo'ou: Yeah, agree Tiz should outspeed if he does the double-speed passive build.  That setup missing M. Attack +30% also swaps Red Cap for Lambent Hat & Hermes Sandals for Amulet, though, which isn't smart if Tiz is twinking for speed, so that's another ~13 M. Atk points lost if Tiz swaps M. Attack +30% for Speed +30%.  Would have to test, but I'd guesstimate maybe ~7200-7500 damage on his Meteors?  4x7500 = ~1.03 PCHP damage, which is still enough to KO Maxim of the unspecial MDurability, sure, though.  (Just closer, is all!)

superaielman

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2014, 06:15:42 AM »
Any estimates on Edge's defense potency Super?

Adamant Armor+two hero shields? He's not going to take damage from physicals, ever. That's an obscene stat/defense boost from those. Edge is very likely going to run Citan out of EP.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 06:59:55 PM »
Switching my vote in that case. Citan is not winning with magic.
...into the nightfall.

Pyro

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2014, 03:26:19 AM »
Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0): Even if Absorb works, Lesca needs 4 thwacks of it to down Dheggy due to regen... 100->50->80->30->60->50->40->0. I don't know if Dheggy can down Yunalesca in 3-4 thwacks, but I could see it being so.
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) (1-0): Limit control/slow.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1): Could take a while.
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0): Ryu can't do any kind of buff for good pdur. How long does Claude last with that armor? I remember it being a horrifyingly fast self-KO. If so then maybe Holy Circle or whatever it was for Ryu could work to immunize him for a turn while Claude dies? Probably not if everyone is voting this way though...

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0): Can't he inflict Stop anyway? Or eschew the Meteors in favor of ITD physical overkill?
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1): Armor Break -> Take something to the face -> KO.
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1)

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0): Any number of nasty tricks work here. I'm still a fan of Regen/Quick->Quick/Meteor->Mimic for tons of damage and full regen.
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0): Labby spoils AGAIN. This time with Distortion. Snrk.
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0): Does Squall really have 250%+ speed limits or something? That is kind of insane. I think he may be a bit good even as a twink.
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0): So Edge is physically and elementally immune in this getup?

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1)
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0):  Auto Potion is pretty good here.
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1): NEB votes against Miakis there can be no doubt.
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1): Durability and damage.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2014, 03:56:34 AM »
Quote
Does Squall really have 250%+ speed limits or something? That is kind of insane. I think he may be a bit good even as a twink.

I certainly don't respect FF8 speed anywhere near enough for that to be remotely possible, but your milage may vary.

And yeah that's pretty much a vote flip on 'lesca/Dheg for me, since I see Dheginsea getting counters so he's getting 6 swings in (no way would 3 be enough, though, by pretty much any scaling).

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Pyro

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2014, 04:47:22 AM »
Dheggy's damage is an OHKO though? What if you factor in Hastega to the damage average?

That's what I was thinking at least.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2014, 05:20:58 AM »
Yunalesca has 4.32 pdur by my views. I think that works out to 5.03 by yours? Dheginsea is somewhat short of OHKO to average (96% at 20/20/8, this may be slightly low... you could hype Ire but 18% doesn't kick in 3 turns, meh). You'd have to give Haste a rather large amount of credit for that to still 3HKO... like, hmm. If you use a three-turn average, then Hastega means Tidus(/Kimahri/whoever) gets three attacking turns and everyone else gets 5, which works out to multiplying damage by 1.44, not that big a deal. I guess you could toss in an extra hasted turn for everyone ("turn 3.5?") and now it's 1.78. That could be just enough?

You could also use more than 3 turns but given how few bosses get notably past PCHP post-Hastega with this proposed scaling ('lesca is about the only one!) I really wouldn't be comfortable with that.

Man, you know who hate that view? Gilgamesh and Exdeath (especially the latter, Gilgamesh is still quickdraw status or die). Since FF5 Hastega has no lag the operative divisor is now 1.89 which drops Exdeath below PCHP, for instance.

Can't think of too many other games which both have MT haste (in the CTB sense) and have it be potent. I'm sure I'm forgetting one.

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SnowFire

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2014, 05:23:01 AM »
Pyro: Tiz's Monk build isn't substantially different from the TM build I was assuming when I first posted my comments - it'll be slower than Maxim but surely OHKO, so it's down to if Maxim can status out Tiz.  (So yeah, Tiz wins both by outspeeding and OHKOing, or by being slower, not getting statused, and then massively overkilling.)

As for FF8, I don't think it was ever decreed officially what Squall was scaled against, so I'm personally assuming he's scaled against unjunctioned PCs - which yes, makes Squall totally insane and probably the best Godlike here by a solid margin.  (The problem with scaling vs. in-game is that the builds are a -downgrade- compared to in-game where getting every stat junctioned by endgame is trivial, so it's hard to come up with an objective thing to compare against. )  That said, dunno how much I'd hype super FF8 speed due to the ATB nature of it, it'll be much less potent in practice than what it is in paper.

On that note re Elecman, yes, I think we can agree that FF8 physicals are quite deadly when compared to unjunctioned FF8 physicals!  (And hell, I thought they were fine in-game too, but I also had 255 Str pretty quickly, and we all know the story with FF8 enemies.)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2014, 05:44:17 AM »
Oh yeah, will if you want Squall massively overkilling everything with Initiative damage to either defence then sure. I think that's a pretty silly scaling myself though and am inclined to just start auto-voting against him if that's how he's meant to be scaled. FF8's an exceptional case and I'd definitely scale their twinks against in-game figures. Not in-game "break the game" figures, perhaps, but certainly the type of setup an average DLer would put together.

FF8 physicals "sufficed" because it's FF8 but they were clearly at the bottom of the damage curve? Magic does more damage pretty cleanly (Meteor can break 10k before Triple and it certainly doesn't need 255 mag to do so, since I never got that... running some quick calculations you need a little under 180), Limits are literally like Physical x 10+ in many cases, Darkside is Physical x3 for a meagre downside, etc.

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SnowFire

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2014, 03:55:07 AM »
It *is* stupid powerful but it's also the Godlike Twink league so it's not SO bad?  There's going to be some "best" twink, don't see the merit in voting against it on those grounds, and a number of the twinks have ridic defense twink options to survive initiative overkill.  It might be 'silly' but it's also, uh, the only one we have numbers on...

And yeah, I suppose we went over this in chat, but we have different ideas on what counts as "in-game."  For me this Squall is hugely nerfed vs. in-game where all his unjunctioned stats are crap, and suck Squall seems much more against the spirit of the Godlike twink league than Super-Squall.  No question that he'd be "balanced" if you see in-game as something like scaling his junctioned stats against other characters with half-junctions or the like, and his unjunctioned stats against unjunctioned characters, but that feels arbitrary to me and not really my in-game experience anyway.

Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 04:57:17 AM »
Will probably roll up the next week in a couple hours. 

Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1) vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0)
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) (1-0)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0) vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1)
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0)

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1) vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0)
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1) vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1)
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1)

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0)
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0)
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0)

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1) vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1)
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0) vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0)
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1) vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1)
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Twink League 2014 Week 2
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 07:59:19 AM »
Dheginsea (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) (0-1)- iiiiiii vs Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) (1-0)
Alternis Dim (Bravely Default) (0-1) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) (1-0)- iiiii
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)* (1-0)- iiiiiiii vs Beast Rune (Suikoden II) (0-1)
Claude C. Kenny (Star Ocean: The Second Story)* (0-1)- iiiiiii vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) (1-0)

Tiz Arrior (Bravely Default)* (0-1)- iiiiii vs Maxim (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)* (1-0)
Millenia (Grandia II)* (0-1)- iiiii vs T260G (SaGa Frontier) (0-1)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) (1-0) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) (0-1)- iiiiiii
Arceus (Pokémon) (1-0)- iiii vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts) (0-1)

Lenna Charlotte Tycoon (Final Fantasy V)* (1-0) - iiiiii vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)* (1-0)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)* (0-1) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)* (1-0)- iiiii
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)* (1-0) vs Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII)* (1-0)- iiiiiiii
Edward 'Edge' Geraldine (Final Fantasy IV)* (0-1)- iiiiiiii vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)*  (1-0)- ii

Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star Story) (0-1)- iiiiii vs Captain Crow (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (0-1)- i
Ramza Beoulve (Final Fantasy Tactics)* (1-0)- iiiiiii vs Empyrea (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) (1-0)
Miakis (Suikoden V)* (1-0) vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)* (0-1)- iiiiii
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) (0-1)- i vs  Jade (Breath of Fire) (0-1)- iiiii
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.