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Grefter

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2225 on: April 01, 2015, 06:27:18 AM »
I came away from the movie feeling like Bradley Cooper went through hardships but ultimately conquered them and came out the better for it. Like say, Frodo?

Not to really harp on a random comment, but as much as I shit all over the series I really don't think that's an accurate interpretation (of the incredibly boring and long) ending to LotR... A big part of it is that everyone changes from the events of the book (That is like literally 100% of the point of Scotty and Pippen or whatever they are called).  Even the stuff with Bilbo in LotR is showing how he ultimately was changed by his earlier adventures.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2226 on: April 01, 2015, 06:14:38 PM »


I don't think I disagreed with any of that Gref?

I meant that this is a classic tale of a dude who goes through some traumatic shit, changes ultimately for the better, and gets a happy ending. Bradley didn't deviate from the classic hero formula you often see in fiction. I used Frodo but could have used like Harry Potter instead.

Juste like these stories, American Sniper isn't really actually that interested in how the conflict could have been avoided (maybe by hugging Sauron...) It isn't about avoiding the trauma of the war at all, but about living through it, overcoming it and becoming a Real Hero (and maybe a Real Human Being)

All this is fine in fiction but less so when talking about a real war veteran in Irak who killed real dudes/women/children. Because the movie treats the opponent like its character does: They are threats, they cannot be trusted, life will ultimately be better for you if you don't care about killing them (or you might end up like Bradley's loser brother instead of having a happy ending)



Oh yeah, this and Imitation Game are two movies that end on a relatively positive note, followed by text "PLOT TWIST!! He died one hour later. LOL. Roll credits"

In Imitation game, I felt the death wasn't shown because the movie didn't want to dwelve too much on Turing's homosexual relationship or the kafkaesque bureaucracy as Turing's enemy (It's way easier to have nazis and Tywin Lannister as the enemy for the entire movie) It lacked courage.

In American Sniper, I felt the death wasn't shown in order to not get in the way of Bradley's character arc (because the movie is all about him): Bradley has kind of an aimless life -> 9/11 happens, Bradley enrolls -> War and trauma -> Overcoming trauma -> Happy ending. You cannot add "Brutal death at home, and not even in a terrorist attack" to that

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2227 on: April 02, 2015, 12:10:25 AM »
I do agree with Grefter, for what it's worth: Frodo does change, certainly, but I'm not sure it's for the better, and I certainly wouldn't say he has a happy ending (he spends the last chapter suffering from nightmares and unable to enjoy the comforts of the Shire which he loved so much at the start, before leaving behind his friends to travel with the elves to another plane of existence). I think the other three hobbits get the stereotypical hero's ending (they all get married and become rulers, like FF4!) but not Frodo.

That said I obviously don't want to dwell on this too much because it's not the point at all (and I am enjoying reading the rest of the discussion).

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The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2228 on: April 02, 2015, 01:19:32 PM »
From the general critical response, it seems that like Soppy says, American Sniper has this kind of Rorschach quality where viewers take the message they want based on biases they have going in (I knew a lot of people who were rah rah Chris Kyle but I also live in the south). Eastwood has said that he meant it to be antiwar but he may have not communicated that well enough since I do know a lot of people have taken the jingoistic side of it to heart. I'm interested in checking it out. I didn't read much about it so I could go into my viewing fairly fresh, but I suspect I'll agree with Fen in the end.

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2229 on: April 27, 2015, 03:56:17 AM »
Duke of Burgundy - This is the most heartfelt, beautiful movie that involves a scene with one woman peeing in another woman's mouth.

Ex Machina - I did not love this. In a lot of ways it seems daring but it is really conventional at the end of the day. It's about a bro programmer (Nathan/Oscar Isaac) who owns what is the equivalent of future google who makes a fully functional artificial intelligence that he puts in a female shell. One of his employees (Caleb/Domhnall Gleeson) wins a contest, and he is enlisted to essentially run a Turing test on the AI (Ava) to determine whether she can pass as human. It brings up a lot of philosophical questions about consciousness (including thought experiments straight out of textbooks), although it doesn't go particularly deep into these questions. That's what I thought it would be about and I would really appreciate a movie that was solely dedicated to examining this (it's becoming more of a thing nowadays with this, Her and Chappie within the past year). Instead it plays more like a thriller or even a horror movie. You're questioning the motive of each character and it really sets up for some twists and turns, and the movie is really good at making things tense. Still, I think the best parts of the movie involve Caleb just  talking with Ava, with both of them developing a rapport and probing each other with questions, leaving you wondering about what Ava is capable of. There is a really nice moment when Ava, who is a shell, asks Caleb to close his eyes, and she moves to her room and picks out some clothes, and she is really deliberative with how she wants to present herself to him. It's strangely touching, although a part of that is propelled by the score.

I'm a bit mixed on the ending, but I found out that this was the same guy who wrote Sunshine, so I should have expected third act problems.

So the character dynamics here really seem like they will turn into something really interesting. Ava can shut down the power of the facility at will, and she uses those opportunities to tell Caleb that Nathan is not to be trusted. It is stated very clearly from the beginning that essentially what Nathan is doing is playing at God, and as such, there is something unsettling about him (a feminist reading of the film could have a field day with what's going on here). You also don't really know much about Ava and her motives and capabilities but that is the main mystery of the story. Still, the major problem I had is that while the movie seems like it will be labyrinthine and full of twists, it really isn't. Caleb and Nathan's motivations and plans are what they say they are and nothing more (they each even take turns at explaining what their plans are). In some ways, it's like a weird noir film with no twists. Ava is a femme fatale who gets a patsy (Caleb) to free herself from an abusive monster (Nathan). The patsy and the monster are really transparent and do everything you expect them to do, and that is a very disappointing part of the film. Caleb is manipulable but he is chosen to be based on his search history, but there really isn't anything more to him. There is a subplot where he thinks he may also be an AI but that would have made for an even more terribly generic plotline. Nathan's a bro and a weirdly creepy monster. That's all.

The ending also becomes really dumb. Nathan is supposed to be very intelligent but has a completely moronic security system, which is compounded by his penchant of getting blind drunk and he keeps his keycard (the only way you can get around) in his sweats. Then Caleb and Ava launch their plans and another lady AI (a Japanese serving girl who is also clearly an AI from the start) goes stabbin' Nathan with her stabbin' knife and the whole problem with it devolving into a corny slasher movie is echoed here was it is in Sunshine. By the end I didn't really care anymore, but the movie does do something a little ballsy/cruel by having Ava leave Caleb trapped forever in the compound. It's kind of senseless but perhaps she is just incredibly utilitarian and had no further use for him. A helicopter comes and she convinces the pilot to take her back (I guess that's her passing the Turing test), and she goes to a crowded intersection, which was her dream. It doesn't end with the implication of omg skynet. She does seem genuinely curious rather than malicious since she's experiencing the world for the first time.



So not the movie I wanted it to be. Not a disaster and probably worth watching but still problematic.

Clouds of Sils Maria - I felt really detached to this. It touches on a lot of things about performance and the culture of acting that Birdman does, but with more talking and less screaming. Like Birdman, the actors are part of this play where you're told but not shown of its quality, but this does a point of dealing with aging and personal evolution. The relationships in the play mirror the relationship between Juliette Binoche (who is fantastic as usual) and her personal assistant (Kristen Stewart). People are heaping a lot of praise on Stewart's performance, and she does feel a little more natural than her other movies, but I still think she has a weird problem with properly displaying affect sometimes, which is problematic. There are some good moments of camaraderie with Binoche that are noteworthy, so there is some talent there.

Something big happens about a half hour before the movie ends (Kristen Stewart disappears that really makes the movie feel empty afterwards, and I guess that was the point. There are good performances and there is a lot of obvious parallel structure going on but I'm not sure to what end. I don't know if I 100% got this one.

As an aside, Chloe Grace Moretz gets to play an actress in this movie who is the worst which is appropriate because Chloe Grace Moretz is the worst. There are some actors who I really have this visceral dislike for and she is one of them, and I think it's particularly from Kick Ass, where I find her endlessly irritating. Everything else she is in is pretty terrible and she's not so great in them. One exception is Hugo but she barely has a role in it.

It's not a generalized dislike of young actresses since I do quite like Hailee Steinfeld (although I think she will be wasted in bratty teenage roles until she grows older), Mia Wasikowska, and Saoirse Ronan. Then again, I have the same dislike for Shailene Woodley (although that is mostly due to her idiotic views on feminism) and Jennifer Lawrence (who I just find really overrated). I dunno. What I do know is Chloe Moretz is terrible.

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2230 on: May 02, 2015, 08:43:23 PM »
Avengers, Age of Adeline Ultron:  Not as good as the first one, but quite solid nonetheless.  Ultron's dialogue is great.  Hawkeye gets some love. 

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2231 on: May 03, 2015, 12:55:29 AM »
Avengers: Age of Ultron: It's more of the first movie, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it!

I think a nice strength this movie has is that it isn't as padded down as you think.  It knows people just want to see Super Heroes vs. Army of Robots, and gets to the point. 

Ultron is a fantastic villain.  Vision...well, I'll just say I really liked how they handled the "team trusts him stupidly fast" because it actually makes sense without it coming off as "naive for the sake of the plot, because we need a good guy!"  Quicksilver didn't do anything as impressive as in DoFP, but I think he was overall better handled if only because he served a consistent purpose, not just "we need him for this one scene so we can hold onto the license!"   Scarlet Witch felt under-utilized by contrast, though I can see them doing a lot more with her later; her bad ass moment was done for a pure trailer shot, naturally (talking about the scene where she walks out of the door.)

If there's a flaw, it's how the movie has to take a temporary moment to set up for other movies; feels like a necessary evil considering all the movies coming out and this is a transition film, but still distracting.  Things like "THIS ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE WE NEED TO SET UP THOR: RAGNAROK!" or Wakanda having any sort of plot...yeah.  I also kind of wish Sam Wilson did more in this movie than appear for a one scene nod for "hey, remember this guy?" kind of like Pepper Pots was in the first movie (only her being a one scene wonder made sense.)  There's a good opportunity to bring him back as Falcon especially since they show him at the end wearing the Falcon Wings, now with the red color scheme, and yes, I am asking for another super hero in a movie that already has a crap ton but isn't that the whole point of this!?

Also, I totally agree with the assessment that the movie's emphasis on splitting up the big fight and civilians feels like a jab at Man of Steel.  It does seem like the movie is trying to say "See DC? This is what super heroes are! They save people as well as kick ass, CIVILIANS COUNT TOO!"

Speaking of DC, I'm not sure how they can pretend to one up a movie like this with Batman v Superman, and the trailer isn't doing it any favors.   I guess they're idea is going to be a heavier emphasis on plot and thematics rather than just "awesome action!" but considering they plan on having like all the Justice League members in there as cameos, and the GRIM DARK Trailer and all that...uphill battle is the best way to put it.
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superaielman

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2232 on: May 03, 2015, 06:15:15 PM »
Avenger 2: Fun. Hawkeye in particular shined and I liked Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2233 on: May 06, 2015, 12:34:01 PM »
Avengers 2 - The power went out in the movie theater about twenty minutes before the end. Just as well. I think I'm beginning or continuing to burn out on these movies. Even in this one, the action was incomprehensible at times and the Marvel villain problem isn't really solved here. Ultron does have a personality and is quippy but his plan and motivations didn't make any sense. One problem is simply knowing the entirety of Marvel's next phase, so it never seems like anyone important will be down and out for long, although it really does feel like it's setting up for one character to be offed. Also, the pacing is kind of weird since the movie seems slightly overstuffed yet underdeveloped at the same time. Product placement was hilariously egregious in this too (HULK SMASH, oh it's okay guys he has Beats headphones).

I think the happiest I was in the movie was seeing Linda Cardenelli/Lindsay from Freaks & Geeks in it. I've always really liked her.

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2234 on: May 06, 2015, 11:18:15 PM »
Avengers 2: Presentation Frend Hawkeye with Super Power: Emotionally Well Adjusted

saw this 100% to rub it in my friends who care way mores' faces because it's not gonna be out for months in japan
don't regret it. Super hero movie. Quippy. Got what I paid for. Movies kinda blow ass anyway (sorry duckbro)

The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2235 on: May 06, 2015, 11:35:43 PM »
Eh I do a lot of things out of spite but if you don't like movies you could have saved yourself over two hours if you just recounted to your friends the events of Avengers 1 and you would basically be right and they never would have known the difference.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 11:39:54 PM by The Duck »

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2236 on: May 07, 2015, 06:28:17 AM »
Eh. I'm looking forward to Avengers 2 when it hits Japan but it's not a huge deal. Honestly I like the marvel cartoons more than the movies at this point but I've always been more a fan of TV serialization than movies. Still, as far as movies go, having huge overarching continuity porn is certainly the way to catch my attention.

Sad to hear it wasn't groundbreaking but then comics movies don't really need to be?

Grefter

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2237 on: May 07, 2015, 09:09:18 AM »
porn is certainly the way to catch my attention.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2238 on: May 07, 2015, 09:40:27 AM »
The sky is blue. Fish can swim. The Princess is in another castle.

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2239 on: May 07, 2015, 07:51:45 PM »
Eh I mean I did ENJOY Avengers 2. Don't get me wrong. Was it the same thing as Avengers 1? Yeah but nobody expected much else. Quippy comic book movie. Did I derive more enjoyment from it than I can guess I'd derive from tripe like Birdman or #artproject Boyhood? I'd say yes. Movies as art just doesn't really work with me all that much but as far as an excuse to watch explosions and people being quippy at each other yeah it does that fine enough.

Mostly, though, the spite. Mmmmmm delicious spite

The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2240 on: May 07, 2015, 08:28:32 PM »
It's not like I can't enjoy these types of movies but Avengers 2 has very little that recommends it and I have basically forgotten everything about it after just two days. I don't even think it works that well even as disposable entertainment since that kind of thing was done a lot better by Avengers 1 and Guardians. There's something weirdly joyless about Avengers 2 and again, that may be due to my general burnout with the whole superhero rollout plan and how they're just basically laying more groundwork but doing a poor job of actually doing anything interesting with it.

Meeplelard

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2241 on: May 09, 2015, 02:20:42 AM »
Eh I mean I did ENJOY Avengers 2. Don't get me wrong. Was it the same thing as Avengers 1? Yeah but nobody expected much else. Quippy comic book movie. Did I derive more enjoyment from it than I can guess I'd derive from tripe like Birdman or #artproject Boyhood? I'd say yes. Movies as art just doesn't really work with me all that much but as far as an excuse to watch explosions and people being quippy at each other yeah it does that fine enough.

Honestly, this is my thought about Movies and similar mediums (Video Games come to mind.)  The primary purpose of these things is entertainment, and should be judged by that first above all else.  The artistic merits can be cool to discuss and analyze, but in the end, a boring movie is still a boring movie, and thus qualifies as crap to me.  I don't want to sit through 2+ hours of nothing just because "it was shot really well!" or any of that.

Not saying there's an objective way to measure a movie, since everyone finds entertainment in different areas, and to some people, they would find the technical aspects appealing.  It's just when people go "this is mindless entertainment" and try to put the movie down as a result...well, mindless entertainment is still entertainment.  If you enjoyed the time you spent on the movie, be it because it made you think hard about something, or because it was just stupid dumb fun with explosions, isn't that what matters?
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Cotigo

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2242 on: May 09, 2015, 09:29:28 PM »
Meeple and I have agreed so I retract all my previous commentary and admit to being wrong.

superaielman

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2243 on: May 09, 2015, 09:50:48 PM »
Gods above I agree with zenny and meeple.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2244 on: May 09, 2015, 09:53:16 PM »
I'll always have Fen.

I do find this to be a weird dichotomy that's being drawn.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 10:36:55 PM by The Duck »

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2245 on: May 09, 2015, 10:45:10 PM »
Not so much, I've always found you two to be different sides to a single coin.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2246 on: May 10, 2015, 12:18:51 AM »
I don't think there's anything wrong watching a movie for mindless entertainment. Hell, just within this thread alone I've talked about James Bond movies, which have basically nothing of value to say about the world or the human condition, but I find them (the better ones, at least) reasonably fun.

But when a movie has nothing going for it besides entertainment, well... it's kinda reductive to say this, but it's not going to offer much to anyone who isn't entertained by it. I can't really get upset by someone saying all James Bond movies suck, because, well, if you aren't entertained by them, they kinda do. Similarly, I haven't watched Avengers because I'm not a big fan of comic-book style action or plot (more specifically, it sounds like X-Men minus most of the things I actually like about X-Men; I guess it keeps the quippy dialog at least but that's not really enough).

Since entertainment is so subjective, I do think it would be nice if movies aimed to be something besides "mindless entertainment" in terms of being thought-provoking or having a message. But there's clearly a market for movies which (almost proudly?) do not... and that's okay. But you shouldn't be surprised when some people (be they critics or simply folks for whom the movie's entertainment value fell short) have negative things to say about such things.

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2247 on: May 10, 2015, 02:12:51 AM »
Wait, who are the two sides of the same coin?


There are some good mindless movies (John Wick, Expendables. The Raid?) I don't like superhermo movies though.
Superhero movies are often too predictable, and too disconnected from reality for the violence to really be visceral and immersive, and tend to always have dialogue being half super srs melodrama about the woes of being a super mutant / half constant Buffy snark between characters, because moods need to change all the time (no time to mourn that dead uncle)
Also, they're doing these completely overblown super high budget movies out of super camp comic book characters created in the middle of the last century and it shows.
I rewatched Batman Rises recently and was very bored (it got really really dumb later on) even though I remembered it as once of the best.


Zenny I guarantee you that LISA is 10000% more arthouse hipster BS than Boyhood. (I say this as someone who likes both and as a fine amateur of arthouse hipster BS)

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2248 on: May 10, 2015, 04:31:41 AM »
Oddly, I felt Expendables was pretty bad.  I went in expecting a bit of a simple, fun action movie with cheesy one-liners and such, and instead got something that was just dull.  By the end of the movie, when the climax hit, I just found myself unable to care.  Felt like movie was trying way too hard to be bad ass and fell flat on it's face at every step.

The sequel actually addressed most of my issues, recognizing that being "serious bad ass" is not the angle to take, instead going with "corny, over the top cheese...and explosions..." is the better angle to take.  Add in legitimate one-liners and hey, actual action movie!

As a side note, The Dark Knight Rises I'd argue is not "one of the better ones" in the genre, and honestly, the entire Christopher Nolan trilogy aren't good indicators of the genre as a whole (not for quality purposes, but stylistically, they're very different.)
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superaielman

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2249 on: May 10, 2015, 12:02:17 PM »


Re entertainment:


I find books and games to be a much worse offender here but movies do it too. I consume entertainment to be entertained. If a game/movie/book doesn't do that, it has completely failed to me. The Great Gatsby was a miserable read and I enjoyed none of it. The same goes for a game like MMXCM (Or even something like Torment). 

It is a different issue from people finding superhero movies boring/overdone but eh.
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