Author Topic: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game  (Read 145588 times)

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #625 on: July 18, 2015, 04:22:13 AM »
My recollection is that as far back as the first book there were some skyscraper-like ruins that prompted thirteen-year-old Cid to assume exactly that background, although I don't think it was followed up on much in any of the books I read (the first...seven, I believe, the ones that Snowfire listed, about most of which memory is entirely uninformative).

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #626 on: July 18, 2015, 09:40:40 PM »
After funding not-Megaman on Kickstarter, Ijafune's team has tried to fund not-Megaman Legends on Kickstarter and it's some kind of total marketing disaster.
I don't know how they've avoided bad publicity yet.


1) They try a kickstarter for a second game before releasing the first one to the public

2) Wait. It's not very clear, but there are actually TWO kickstarters. one for the game, and one for an anime tied to the game.

3) Wait, actually, if you read the stretch goals for the anime kickstarter, you'll see that you're only funding, and you'll only get, a 5 minutes anime episode. That thing will be slightly longer if stretch goals are reached, and there'll be an ending at the 2,4 millions stretchgoal  (lol)

4) Oh, and you won't even get that 5 minutes episode if you pledge less than 24$

5) The game is PC only. If it reaches a stretch goal (unlikely) it's going to be released on a console. We don't know which console, I hope you have them all.
Exciting stretch goal.

6) WAIT WAIT you're not even getting the damn game by pledging for the game kickstarter!
The actualy game is divided in two parts, and you're only funding the smaller shorter part. Called "prologue". 
If you pledge 25$ or more you get a "copy of the game" but that means only the prologue.
A new panic update has now stated that you can now get both parts of the game from the Kickstarter, but you need to pledge 79$ or more for that. Yep. Can't make that up. More than any game at launch.


So far it looks like both projects will be barely funded.
I'm not quite sure every backer realizes they're paying for a 5 minute anime / a PC only prologue of a game

I can't link to this because I work in marketing now and I don't want to get cursed
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 09:43:16 PM by Fenrir »

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #627 on: July 19, 2015, 05:18:00 AM »
1) They try a kickstarter for a second game before releasing the first one to the public

Not taking issue with the rest of what you said, but I have seen this particular bit of criticism levied before, and frankly it makes no sense.  Mighty No. 9 is due out in a couple months and by all indications it's pretty much finished with development.  This is the perfect time to be raising money for your next project: if you secure a new infusion of cash you can keep the people on staff that you need instead of suffering brain drain as they peel off between projects.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #628 on: July 19, 2015, 05:51:53 AM »
Hmm, yeah, per Cid, that's not EXACTLY a spoiler, except for possibly the part where it's actually Earth wut.   Didn't know that, actually, my distrust in books past the first 7 is based on hearsay, I didn't actually read them...  although the fact that I eventually realized I disliked Talismans of Shannara fueled my lack of interest in seeing a continuation.  My recollection is that there's the usual hypertech civilization that existed in the past but without magic but it got blow'd up, and Allanon hems & haws about there being some great cycle between magic & technology, and it's a plot point in Wishsong that the era is turning and all the magic would be dying out and an age of technology was to come (and that this is established early so isn't even really a spoiler).

Then in the Heritage books (Scions, etc.) 300 years later this is thrown in the garbage and his ghost says something like "magic leaving is horrible we need maaaaaaaaagic" which would be sort of acceptable in the sense that obviously the book series would be over, or at least very different, if they went with a low-magic world, except that the very plot in Heritage seems to contradict this (rogue magic turns people into Shadowen who are just evil 'cuz.)   Unless they want to claim that mages would gather up all the rogue magic and prevent it from turning evil or something?!  Who knows.  (I'd have been happier with "some evil force is undoing all that wheel turning crap and bringing back EVIL MAGIC, we need to marshall up good magic to stop it" or something.)

Dhyer: The market worry doesn't seem necessarily true at all.  The very point of all those 80s nostalgia remake movies is to drag adults into the seats due to nostalgia & kids because they're the target audience.  "Transformers" or whatever certainly got current kids as well to watch it.  Granted, sometimes the kids don't show up, but that's usually a sign of general failure (e.g. Speed Racer).  To a lesser extent, the same with superhero movies...  although superhero comics does seem afflicted by that problem, the main market that buys physical comic books seem to be hardcore adults who never outgrew it.

Also, a Mistborn TV series would be quite expensive to produce.  Less big expansive royal processions than Game of Thrones, sure, but lots of intricate action scenes.  You could do a very talky Mistborn but I think this would miss the point to a degree, I'd think the main selling point would be expensive fancy fight scenes.  (Certainly the dialogue in the books is nothing special, even if the plot is decent.)

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #629 on: July 19, 2015, 06:24:32 AM »
Yeah Mistborn would definitely need the movie route rather than TV.  It's all about the action scenes.

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EVO going on this weekend.  Persona 4 Arena Ultimax top 8 was incredible; you'll want to watch that when it hits youtube.  But in the meantime...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvLdmb3Fot4

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #630 on: July 19, 2015, 08:44:25 AM »
Regarding Mighty Number Legends (not a MathBlaster product brought to you by Elves), I wonder if this is the flip side to high profile Kickstarters?  Is this a sign that they don't have either venture capital or a publisher in the wings using it as focus testing?

Marketing folly or not, is that how you try to crowd fund an honest to god Indie B-title with a large production studio?
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #631 on: July 19, 2015, 09:42:10 AM »
1) They try a kickstarter for a second game before releasing the first one to the public

Not taking issue with the rest of what you said, but I have seen this particular bit of criticism levied before, and frankly it makes no sense.  Mighty No. 9 is due out in a couple months and by all indications it's pretty much finished with development.  This is the perfect time to be raising money for your next project: if you secure a new infusion of cash you can keep the people on staff that you need instead of suffering brain drain as they peel off between projects.

This approach doesn't have the fan in mind though. (BTW I'm looking for a less condescending term than fan, but can only think of consumer, and that's even worse) The fan knows kickstarters often lead to failures, and he still hasn't seen how Inafune fared on his own kickstarter.

This is of course a problem when you're asking money from fans instead of the publisher.. You're asking for the fan to make a leap of faith twice (funding two games) before he's able to see any result. So you get less fans backing the project, less money, etc etc.


Inafune's studio has already made another project (Azure Striker Gunvolt on 3DS) without Kickstarter, after not-Megaman's kickstarter, and it was a success sales wise.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #632 on: July 19, 2015, 04:09:54 PM »
Umm...from the perspective of the game developer...

If you don't get funding for your next project BEFORE your previous project ends, then you need to fire a lot of your workers.  Yeah, sometimes if you're lucky you can hire them back a few months later, but not always.  If he's making a kickstarter now, it's because he likes the Mighty No. 9 team and wants to hang on to the talent (and or is a decent human being and doesn't want to leave them unemployed for 2 months).

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #633 on: July 19, 2015, 05:41:51 PM »
EVO going on this weekend.  Persona 4 Arena Ultimax top 8 was incredible; you'll want to watch that when it hits youtube.  But in the meantime...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvLdmb3Fot4

Never listen to the crowd. Always lame it out.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #634 on: July 19, 2015, 06:24:08 PM »
Umm...from the perspective of the game developer...

If you don't get funding for your next project BEFORE your previous project ends, then you need to fire a lot of your workers.  Yeah, sometimes if you're lucky you can hire them back a few months later, but not always.  If he's making a kickstarter now, it's because he likes the Mighty No. 9 team and wants to hang on to the talent (and or is a decent human being and doesn't want to leave them unemployed for 2 months).

Unfortunately, if GG has taught us anything, it's that 'gamers' don't know fucking anything about how making games works and believe companies exist solely to cater to their whims.  So while this move makes complete sense from a financial and development perspective, its nature as dependent upon the masses means it's kinda destined to fail.  People are too short-sighted and ignorant for it not to.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #635 on: July 19, 2015, 06:31:34 PM »
MC, yes.
Which is why they should have done another game like Azure Striker Gunvolt instead of another kickstarter right away.



I wouldn't blame it on gamer entitlement if people don't want to pay for two games in advance without seeing any results. Especially if they dropped big bucks on MM9, and especially considering how dubious everything regarding this kickstarter is.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #636 on: July 19, 2015, 07:01:59 PM »
See Fenrir.  This is not a case of gamers being stupid and ignorant, this is a case of gamers being smart.  If Mighty No. 9 is shit, then you shouldn't *want* to fund another project.  If the project really is that amazing then find a publisher willing to tide the team over with money for awhile working on something else, or even just privately buying into Mighty Legends such that when they kickstart it they already have an alpha prototype ready to demo?

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #637 on: July 19, 2015, 07:21:56 PM »

I wouldn't blame it on gamer entitlement

It just means you aren't cynical enough.

Now this is a rare time where said sentiments happen to overlap with a reasonable, or at least sympathetic, reason.  But even if Fenrir's suggestion were used the result would be the same.  We're talking about a culture that organizes boycotts of companies for releasing DLC content purely because most of said content was technically on the disc.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #638 on: July 19, 2015, 07:36:41 PM »
This is games we're talking about, not like taxes for infrastructure.  Kickstarter is asking you to pay for something sight unseen.  There is absolutely 0 obligation to fund kickstarters and if kickstarters fail that is no big deal, it doesn't mean that a bridge is going to collapse or something.  The burden is on the developers to make their case, not on gamers to dance to their every whim with cash money, and it's the developers who are entitled if they think they are somehow "owed" automatic allegiance.  The worst case scenario is that a potentially neat game never gets produced.  Oh noez.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #639 on: July 19, 2015, 07:47:34 PM »
Okay that's a pretty tone deaf response.

Why doesn't Inafune, the main dude behind Megaman and Megaman Legends want to go to a publisher with his own IP that he has complete creative control over and is no longer held completely at the whims of a publisher just go to a publisher for funding?  Probably the last decade and a half of Mega Man games and the entirety of Megaman Legends 3 development.

There is a reason these guys went independent.

That said, the kickstarter is wayyyyyyy more tone deaf.

Put up a kickstarter for episodic game and don't make it clear that people are backing just the first part of it?  After the negative backlash of Broken Age?  That is very brave.

I think it is the studio puts a lot of faith in its fans (based on the fan response to MM Legends 3 at the time, MN9 more recently) and not necessarily realising how distant from the realities of development most fans are and that they aren't working in a vacuum in Kickstarter.

Something at 50% of the base goal at 15 days isn't really in good shape for something like that, I think most of them get the majority of their funding in the first week or so?

I definitely don't think this is anything close to what you are saying there though Snowfire.  Kickstarters are allowed to go up and fail, holy shit they aren't holding anyone at knife point.  They are going "Do you want to fund this"  people are saying "No".  Start claiming entitlement when Inafune loses his shit at his fans for betraying him, not when they post the kickstarter.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #640 on: July 19, 2015, 07:57:33 PM »
Yes, of course.  Let's start over though.

Comcept has made a number of foolish decisions which makes its new project less appealing.  This overlaps with consumer psychology which says that someone who hasn't delivered a salable product from one campaign hasn't earned the trust to work on another one.  (Despite having a few other complete projects to look at but let's set that aside for now, those were co-productions, not Comcept as the main player).

This however is a broken clock scenario.  While the timing is sound, it is still true that Comcept is asking its funders for a larger leap of faith than they realize and the status of the Kickstarter reflects this.  However, gamer entitlement has still made a mark on the project despite not being the larger issue at hand here.  A product is being offered which is a stepping stone towards something people claim they'd pay almost anything for.  But it's not exactly when they want it, and being delivered incrementally, so they are suddenly gunshy.  Gamers are notoriously entitled, shitty, and stingy, making it a poor market to invest in through normal channels, so funding for them outside the existing studio system is scarce, hence the recurring use of kickstarter for the purpose.

Interesting games rarely exist.  This is because gamers are terrible people who aren't willing to support interesting games.  Gamers have made their industry the shambling shitshow headed towards collapse that it is, and complain about the stumbling blocks of those trying to grow a new one under it, blacklisting them before they have a chance to correct those errors. 

It's not that people are unreasonable to be skeptical here.  I'm just saddened they are because we need companies like this to grow and it's looking like that's just not going to happen.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #641 on: July 19, 2015, 08:58:27 PM »
Grefter: Oh, I don't think that of Inafune at all.  I was responding more to CK's stance of "gamers are immature whiners if they don't fund my favorite developers" (paraphrased, yes).  If Inafune actually adopted such a stance, it'd apply, but I doubt he did.  And it's not even exactly a mistake!  If Inafune wants to gamble on running the Kickstarter early so he can keep his team together per mc, more power to him.  But if that Kickstarter fails, it is no way an indictment of "entitled gamers."

CK: I too would approve of independent auteurs able to go their own way, but I also don't think the success or failure of Mighty Legends will mean much on whether this happens or not.  What is Mega Man Legends?  I have never played it and never heard anyone particularly care about it.  This is a weird niche thing that I'd expect to get less hype and less automatic funding than "remake MegaMan" or "remake SOTN", so the fact it did get less funding is totally expected.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #642 on: July 19, 2015, 09:07:39 PM »
Quote from:  Putting words into Snowfire's mouth
  I was responding more to CK's stance of "gamers are immature whiners".  Everything is an indictment of "entitled gamers."  Gamers are basically as bad as you can be without physically assaulting someone.


I felt compelled to correct these parts.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #643 on: July 19, 2015, 09:17:52 PM »
It was a 3D MegaMan series with 2 games in it (Is the origin of some lame character that Snow loves so clearly it is boring and lame for lamers).

The choice parts of the Wiki article on it are.

Quote
Detailed information about the game was announced at the New York Comic Con in October 2010.[5] On July 18, 2011, Capcom officially announced the game had been cancelled.

Quote
While Capcom was developing the game, several aspects from the game such as the new heroine Aero, a mech and Mega Man's design were chosen by fans as Capcom invited fans to send their designs in their official Mega Man Legends 3 website.[9][10][11]

Quote
Although Inafune left Capcom in November 2010, the team working for Mega Man Legends 3 stated that the game would continue development.[12] Capcom intended to release Mega Man Legends 3: Prototype Version in 2011 for the 3DS eShop, featuring 10 missions, and Barrett as playable character.[13] The Prototype Version was going to act as a prologue to the forthcoming main game.[14]

With the real killer being

Quote
On Twitter, Capcom Europe blamed lack of fan support for the game not being released, despite 20,000 more people than what was needed signing the petition.

Absolutely none of this is happening without history.  Fan engagement has been very high from Inafune and his team, so the move isn't really out of left field for him.  There is veeeeery strong reasons for not wanting a publisher near his toys ever again though.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #644 on: July 19, 2015, 09:42:50 PM »
Quote from:  Putting words into Snowfire's mouth
  I was responding more to CK's stance of "gamers are immature whiners".  Everything is an indictment of "entitled gamers."  Gamers are basically as bad as you can be without physically assaulting someone.


I felt compelled to correct these parts.



Anyhow, yeah, Irafune's gotten it rough from publishers.

Honestly, the big problem just sounds like it ran into one of the more common Kickstarter issues, where information is just not clearly disseminated to backers. I don't think launching another project pre-launch of your first is bad (see Met, you should have enough info out there for folks to judge your performance anyway), but being unclear is very, very bad with Kickstarter.

EDIT

Right, forgot about this. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/all-street-fighter-5-dlc-will-be-free-if-youre-wil/1100-6429002/?utm_source=gamefaqs&utm_medium=partner&utm_content=news_module&utm_campaign=homepage

Might we finally be seeing a fighting game with the intention of a longer, more continuous lifespan? Mebbe! Am curious about what sort of pricing structure they'll be using.

Also, no fucking mercy at EVO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLeE5qPuXgM&feature=youtu.be&t=10
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 10:37:42 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #645 on: July 20, 2015, 12:12:46 AM »
Anyhow, yeah, Irafune's gotten it rough from publishers.

Thinking on it, the best move would have been to begin development on the game and announce the KS right after MN9 drops.  Maybe they couldn't secure funding to do even that without doing a KS to appease their creditors.

Quote
Might we finally be seeing a fighting game with the intention of a longer, more continuous lifespan? Mebbe! Am curious about what sort of pricing structure they'll be using.

Kinda weird sentiment seeing how SF4 lasted forever in game years.  More continuous, sure.  Longer?  Doubtful.

As for pricing structure...it's quite the mystery.  I can see two paths forward.  First: Capcom releases updated versions every year or so, priced at $60, and including all DLC to date, and never offers vanilla after the first iteration.  This keeps their promise that one disc is all you need but allows them to continue to justify demanding premium pricing.  Second: Capcom never releases versions that have any DLC, so the urge to pay up rises with the roster of unlockable characters.  Either way I see a lot of paid DLC hats for sale in SF's future.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #646 on: July 20, 2015, 01:13:05 AM »
I would kiiiiiind of expect something of $60 for the base game then discounted DLC as you go forward (MMOs do this a lot as they age).

So maybe every year (or 18 months?) you get a new "Official" box release that comes with a pack of (a selection?) of the old content is one that fits in most with other existing business models I can think of.

Complete with the new official box release having collectors editions that people shell out for even though they own the original.
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #649 on: July 20, 2015, 03:35:11 AM »
Quote from:  Putting words into Snowfire's mouth
  I was responding more to CK's stance of "gamers are immature whiners".  Everything is an indictment of "entitled gamers."  Gamers are basically as bad as you can be without physically assaulting someone.


I felt compelled to correct these parts.

It's okay. Gamers tend to stereotype based on labels. Everyone who generalizes based on labels is an asshole.